I'm more worried about playng without a clue how to defend. I don't buy into the Moyes was negative stuff, he did well with what he had. Having a philosophy is fine if you have the players to do it. I don't see any teams playing fearless attacking football outside of the top few. So for me there's a contradiction. We go out to attack but there are victims of over committing - examples of teams shining for short periods, and most are now in the championship. I'd happily be proved wrong but whats wrong with great defending, possession and good movement? Brains wins over passion any day.

Agree with the sentiment of the article. Even if what those managers said was partly true, it doesn't need to be said.

It's almost like saying 'I've been born poor, so I'll give up on having a good life'.

Being at a disadvantage is one thing, giving up is another.

Moyes was a very good manager; brilliant on occasion and woeful on others. He bottled it in big games away from Goodison and was villified for his robotic 4-5-1 formation at home. So if Martinez does get the job and has our players playing "Sin Miedo" type football I think it'll be a blessing rather than too big of a risk.

I liked Moyes, but that's about it in terms of affection for the man and his style. Roberto Martinez is no great manager but has shown he can change his style to suit the game- unfortunately some of his players at Wigan were really poor. But if you manage Wigan then there's only a certain type of player you can afford.

As for defensive frailties, Wigan's were mainly individual errors. People have seemingly forgotten how atrocious Everton were last season at defending set pieces with everybody in the box!! We had absolutely no idea how to mark up properly at corners or free kicks and that was with a manager and assistant who were "defensive minded"

Smith was a negative style manager and Moyes even more so. John Ford above is obviously one of the fans on here who never goes to a game because what we need after 11 years of Moyes' negative dross is to watch some decent attacking football and Martinez will certainly bring that to Goodison. Hopefully fat Bill has realised that is what the fans want.

Wrong Mick., and even if I didn't go to the game I'd still see things the same. We played some good stuff last season esp the first half. I'm still waiting for examples of teams who play this imaginary all attacking game consistently and well. I'll be waiting a while.

Chris, fair shout re our set piece defending. We looked all over the pace at times.

John (805, 824)

You've slightly missed the point. I'm not saying that we should forget about the defensive side of the game. The point of the article was that we need a manager who makes the players believe they are good enough to win at Anfield etc. We need someone to take us to the next level, not someone who constantly makes excuses about glass ceilings. Personally, I think it's hypocritical of fans to complain about Nil Satis Nisi Optimum being removed from the club badge, and then argue that we shouldn't play without fear!

I agree with John that we did play some good stuff under Moyes. The problem was always a lack of cutting edge, or the fact that the free flowing football would suddenly just stop for no particular reason, often an away game where we should win comfortably, but we revert back to a negative style. I also noticed that whenever we went a goal up, we had between 5-10 minutes to get another, before we started to look back, then further back, until teams like Norwich had us under the cosh for the last half hour and it was a case of when, and not if they will score. We lost many points playing like this, and we rarely beat teams by more than 1 goal.

As for Martinez, I like a few Evertonians are 50/50 on him. He has a good eye for attacking flair, and we have the players for that, but his teams are suspect at the back, which will hopefully be rectified by our much better defenders. My biggest worry is that despite his limited budget, he showed no signs of improving Wigan, and I know that is a difficult job, but will it be any easier improving Everton? Improving Wigan 2 or 3 league places a year is far easier than even keeping Everton where they are now in my eyes, and he failed to do that at Wigan. In my view, if he is as good as folk say he is, then getting an extra 8-10 points a season should not have proven beyond him.

John (805, 824)

One thing we both agree on: "I don't see any teams playing fearless attacking football outside of the top few"

I agree that teams at the top of the league play "fearless attacking football".

I also agree that teams "outside of the top few" don't play "fearless attacking football".

Can you see the point I'm trying to make...?

Gavin, the point is that the top few can afford to buy the players necessary to play that way and the rest of us can't.

One thing that needs changing is the goalkeeper.Howard doesn't control his area , punches out too much and makes too many errors. If Martinez does become manager and we do become more attacking then a solid goalkeeper is vital . Howard for me isn't solid. We need a big nev or Nigel Martin type.

Gavin, I believe Moyes attitude changed when we qualified for the Champions League. Having worked so hard with the players to get us there he was rewarded with zero transfer budget. I think then he realised what he wanted to achieve was very different to the boards. His previous contract saga may have been brought about by that. This time there was another team wanting his services.

We all know our new manager will have to work on a very limited budget, less than many clubs below us. Martinez, like the rest of English football knows this. He will also be tasked with replacing aging key favourite players. Over the last decade as a club we've been lucky being able to bring in decent players at very reasonable prices, selling some for a good profit. I think this is becoming a thing of the past.

I'm more concerned with RMs attitude at the moment. To say to your Chairman I want to leave because I don't feel equipped to help the team to promotion tells me he's in a negative place and lacking confidence. He never asked to leave when Villa and the RS came calling. This is his first setback as a manager, before it has always been positive, onwards and upwards, plaudits from every quarter. This is the only reason he's not my choice.

I don't believe the defensive issue is a huge problem, we can see his preferred style, attacking fullbacks with a solid central pairing. Our quality and intelligence in this area is far greater than Wigan's. If he does get the job I think he would listen to senior players and offer Stubbs and Weir coaching roles. He has a natural eye for an attacking style which will also encourage our forwards. As you can read, I'm like most 50/50.

Gavin, I think ido, and the best example of Moyes weakness was the SF last year when he dropped Cahill back and we completely lost momentum.

I can obviously go with the idea of promoting self belief, and this didn't appear on the face of it to be a Moyes strength. Im sure you're not suggesting this is all that's needed so my point is really to emphasise other qualities as I reckon they're more important.

We rarely got dicked under Moyes and won more than most because he was very well organised and always had a strong centre through the team. Players generally knew what was expected of them. So many managers emphasise belief but it's a fragile beast. Success demands more than that and I'd say there are other things more important.

Passionate managers instilling belief and positivity is fine but where they often fail, tactically, is where Moyes succeeded. He had his teams playing to a default system which just relied on players doing their job rather than a free flowing style. It was great when we got it right such as early last season when we passed and moved as well as anyone. The down side was Moyes struggle with a plan B. Wigan had one of their few easy on the eye days against us. They battered us and Moyes could do little about it. As good a tactician as he is, at least in getting a team playing a preferred style, he had no answer sometimes.

Gary Neville said sommat similar....he always expected to come up against passionate committed teams but over a season it was never enough. I'd rather have a good brain than a white line dancing screaming banshee. Not that the two are exclusive. Steve Clarke has shown a decent touch but rarely gets a mention. One thing we can say though , if RM joins us he'll have a ready made strong defence to complement his attacking style. He never had that at Wigan

Fearless attacking football without the organisation of a solid defence gets teams relegated without a shadow of a doubt. Fear exists in nature as a positive emotion to protect. Children without fear get run over, anilmals without fear get eaten, it has it's place. When the fear gets allayed in football, i.e. you know your defence is solid, you can start to open up and play. All great teams are built from the back, all good managers know this is their first priority.

Blackpool, Wigan et al (let's go back to Swindon and further if you like) all piled forward like a bunch of 8 year olds following a football in a playground and won a few which caught the eye but generally copped hammerings which also sapped the confidence. The result of getting hammered = FEAR and I don't really care what anyones spouts as a philosophy. Wigan looked like rabbits in headlights in what was really their most important game at the end of the season, which was Swansea at home not a Cup game, and they got hammered by a team playing on autopilot.

If you want statistics between Moyes and Martinez then look no further than Top 6 versus Bottom 3, but the most telling one is the goal difference for Wigan - absolutely shocking.

Also, I didn't know Winston Churchill was a Toffeweb poster...

Antony Mathews, I agree. Howard appears at times to release the ball too quickly, wanting to get rid rather than look up to see if there are better options. Personally I was disapointed Mucha wasn't given more of a run. Ok, it was only two games, but he was immense. It would be nice to see if he performed to that level consistently. I don't think you can use internationals as a yardstick, Neville was beaten most times playing for Wales.

Moyes negative comments later in his reign were born out of frustration and blatant digs at our board and chairmen... Mainly to get the cash out and help him.

PS Don't take my word for the positivity of fear, here's someone with a similar view, from about 0:39 in

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9MtJ164XJI

Iain #875, I wouldn't put too much stock on that "not equipped to return us to the Premier League" quote. We've not heard Martinez' version of what was said, only Whelan's. And I wouldn't put it past Whelan to embellish what was said. If for some reason Everton don't offer him the job and he ends up withdrawing his resignation, Whelan would be delighted.

Remember, this is the same Whelan who in the immediate aftermath said that his beloved Roberto would go to a bigger club than Everton. A week later after being told he wants to go, says that he's exactly what Everton need.

"Sin Miedo" - already got it printed on the back of my shirt - how much will he cost?

Not as much as "Sin Premiership" or "Sin Defendo"

Attacking football is the only way to progress in the Premier League. Our GD has not been big enough under Moyes and if Top 4 goes down to GD we would lose out badly. We have the defensive capabilities, we now need to score more goals in order to challenge and finish off opponents, which was our biggest problem this season.

I want style, I want the world to know that Everton play football the right way, the Dortmund way, the Barca way, and –dare I say – the Wigan way (minus the defending). I want my team to play fearless footie against any team in the world!!!

For me, Moyes played decent footie against the small teams but then, when in came time to visit the big boys, it was hit-and-run tactics. Which never worked (see 44 attempts failed). That's all I want... and well a trophy would be nice too.

We all know we are paupers in the Premier League in terms of money, but that shouldn't stop us from going out and having a right go at any team in any stadium in the world. So for me I want excitement – after all, football is meant to be entertainment.

John (877), I think you've hit the nail on the head with your comment about last season's semi-final. I'm not a member of the MOB though, so I'll defend Moyes by saying that he was without his two most creative players that day, Pienaar and Drenthe. Having said that, I completely agree that Liverpool were there for the taking that day.

Like most Evertonians, I'm 50/50 about Roberto being offered the Everton job. Ironically, though, I do think that Martinez is better suited to the Man Utd job than David Moyes!

Iain, glad someone has mentioned that. Howard really irritates me with his rolling the ball out to the full back all of the time without even looking up. Not saying he should be hoofing it to the half way line, but he seems to roll it out without thinking, inadvertently playing people into trouble.

I can just imagine Moyes before United play Real Madrid, "We can't compete, financially, with clubs like Madrid. This game is gonna be like fighting a nuclear war with a peashooter!"

I'm sure the Man Utd fans would love that!

Gavin, he may surprise us and look at his players and far superior bench to what he used to and think....."You know what? This is a fucking good side and look at my bench....fuck me! not one Naismith in sight"

No more taking of knife to a gun fight, as he will have his own (adopts Arnie voice) Uzzzee nineee millllermeeeeeetreeeee

Agreed Ross. Our goal difference is always pathetic. Oh for a top striker and a big commanding keeper.

As for fearless attacking football. Even Bayern Munich don't play that way. They had to ditch the fearless approach and revert to defending higher up the pitch in order to succeed in Europe. Ribery and Robben worked their socks off.

In the modern game the players need to be as fit as Olympic athletes. Sausage roll merchants like Rooney and Anichebe would never get a game in Germany. I mention this because there have been times when one or two of our lads have looked pretty sluggish. Also,and I'm not an expert, Jelavic and Barkley appear to have spent many hours weight-training and put on lots of heavy muscle. Indeed they have changed their physical shape quite noticeably within the last year and have both lost pace. Are there any Toffee Webbers with knowledge of these things? It's been bothering me.

Matt#894. Thats possible, Whelan was very vocal about the RS job, too vocal. Don't like the way he keeps harping on about the financial compensation either, it's not classy, quite vulgar infact, they're aren't many chairman who will discuss finances in front of the media.
Most of the people I work with are Swansea fans, they all still speak of Martinez with great affection. Many were amazed he moved to Wigan who in their eyes are a much smaller club.

Some of our football in the last 3 seasons has been excellent, but our big problem is the lack of a goal scorer, and more to the point lack of goals from midfield. Early in the season we created more chances than any team in Europe, but we haven't got the players to put them away.

Remember the Swansea & Villa games; ok we scored 3 on each occasion but we could've had double figures, the same applies to Fulham. Our midfield does not chip in with enough goals; Pienaar's goal return has always been poor-and he's our attacking mid.

The trouble is and always will be is that goal scorers cost money, and no matter who we get as a manager, he will always be shopping in Primark

When Moyes arrived, it was about taking a team to 7th and being called a huge success. His knife to a gunfight quotes refers to making the team a top-4 one, and is entirely correct. His sentiment changed along with his ambition, I saw him getting frustrated as he did his all to take us to the top-4 but without that extra investment he was fighting a losing battle.

Moyes was a master of lowering expectations in public but no one knows what he said in private. I can't imagine for one instant that he would ever tell his players they couldn't win or compete, he's naturally so competitive.

Eventually he got cheesed off with the board and it seeped out, he is/was too loyal/selfish to say it directly.

Maybe the PE teacher analogy wasn't too far wide of the mark after all Eugene.

No wonder he kept players for so long, if you don't follow instructions, you're out!

Kes comes to mind, with all the players shivering on the sidelines, while Moyes pretends to be Messi.

What was that sketch in Ripping Yarns with Michael Palin where the bloke keeps going on about how something is not important, different colour shirts or socks or something similar, I know the team was called Barnstonworth or some such.

Patrick (378) - looks like Mark Hughes has got the Barnstonworth job.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9KXrRUZqtw

Harold – 504

What about Stefan Effenberg? I seem to remember him turning up to training on his Harley with a Page Three girl and smoking a cigar.