Really dissappointed with Mirallas, this guy should be an outstanding player with all the attributes he has but for some reason he lacks consistency, goes missing for too many away games, come on Kev get in the game and start running at your opponent.
Barkley too needs to start getting his pass/shot away earlier, great talent but needs to hurry on the ball a bit more.

All in all a decent game so far, ref is a top class homer twat (whats new there) but we need to defend better, I expect more from two experienced centre halves to be honest, if I was to make a change maybe throw on Del Boy for Naismith.
Still in it come on

There its that anticipated substitution anyway not surprising really.

All in all a dissappointing defeat after a positive start, lessons need to be learnt really, still a work in progress.

Its not the end of the World though.

The 2nd half was poor, but Moss had a absolute stinker.

On the plus side, McCarthy looked pretty impressive today.

Hopefully Martinez will realise that Osman is hopeless, Naismith is diabolical, and they should not be anywhere near the first team.

When Barry returns v Hull, we should be better in terms of defence and organisation.

Disappointed, but without Barry it was going to be a struggle.

Game was not helped by a poor referee though.

It might not do no harm to lose this undefeated tag which has been building the last few weeks, we're still in the mix with hopefully a few winnable matches now which can still put us right up there.

It always was going to be a big ask to get anything from this game; with a midfield including Naismith and Osman in it, we were always going to struggle to get a foothold in the game. Martinez really needs to give it a rest with Naismith – the guy is absolute garbage. I really think we have moved on from these kind of players.

I thought McCarthy had a very good game – great energy levels from the lad, he was everywhere.

I must say though, our players looked very tired in the second half.

We need Lukaku, Mirallas and Barkley to play much better as an attacking threat for a full 90 if we're serious about a top four challenge.

And we need a leader in the middle of the park.

Attacking wise it was just a bad day. Ross and Romelu (goal aside) made some poor choices. Kev well off colour. Deulofeu is playing as loanees sometimes do - for himself. Think the criticism of Nais is harsh - he pressed high and tracked back. If some of his more talented teammates did the same we'd have stood a chance.

Ref shit but I didn't see us getting back into the game anyway.

How long till Kone is fully fit? It's October! !!

You can't keep that up for 90 minutes htough away at a top side. They have better players than us and it showed. In the long run we'll get more reward from more games playing that way than if we'd gone with the Moyes formula that may well have won us three points. Obviously you want a manager who can blend both approaches depending on the opposition but none seem to be able to do that.

To be honest I don't really know what everyone expected, City infuriatingly were at full strength (how often do Kompany, Toure, Silva and Aguero all make the same team?) We were missing our crucial cogs of Barry and Pienaar and had Mirallas and Gibson only really fit for a half each. To add to this that's the worst refereeing performance I've seen all season from a ref who continuously screws us over. If he gives the correct calls we go in at half time leading that game 2-1 and one of Silva or Milner is sent off.

Im sure though that instead of all those huge factors this result will be blamed upon one of Naismith Osman or Martinez. Players and managers can only do so much. To win that game when the playing field is so unlevel in terms of money and fairness is nigh on impossible. It really did feel like having a knife at a gunfight at times.

I thought McCarthy was our best player, accurate in the pass, strong and fast, he kept going when others tired. Mirallas was clearly unfit so I'll leave his poor performance down to that. Osman did nothing wrong when he was on whereas Barkley was all over the shop, only one of them will get criticised though and we all know who. Back two were quite good but were left a lot to do by errant fullbacks. Coleman decided to have one of his narky not concentrating games and got punished. Again though you can only blame the players so much trying to compete against 12 men.

Another season where the premier league will protect their precious super six and be shocked if they all come in the top 6 despite having all the money and the refs in their pocket. Sometimes I wonder why we even bother competing in the premier league, let alone resitng player sin the cup for it. What are we ever going to do? Each season having a sniff of fourth only to be denied it whenever we get close by a militant refereeing panel hell bent on getting their money earning teams in the top bracket to swell the pockets of their overlords? The normal 14 should just breakaway and set up a proper league for proper footy teams with proper fans.

You are mistaken either way as his tackling and reading of the game are outstanding.

Saved a certain goal today with an outstanding last ditch tackle. Rarely has a bad game.

Difficult to know how you reach your conclusions.

Far too many players below par, sloppy in our passing, and we offered feck all going forward second half.

I'm not one to single out individuals, but Mirallas has been really poor for me all season, is he carrying an injury?

The ref was probably the worst I have seen for a long time, but even without him, we didn't deserve anything.

Wasn't our day, but I'm still extremely hopeful we can have a good season.

City should have been down to 9 men. Milner should have seen red, Silva should have had two yellows.

Their penalty was very soft, and the shove on Lukaku was a stonewaller, more than theirs for sure.

Halsey said on BT that play should have been stopped before their 2nd goal, so by rights it should have been a draw or a little better than 3-1.

Mirallas should have scored as well.

I'd much rather the young lad having a go.

Ultimately, I'd agree he was shit today. But can't accept that Osman "did nothing wrong". He could similarly "do nothing wrong" from the bench. He did nothing.

Interesting listening to Halsey point out the inconsistency of the referee, and a first agreeing with Warnock. Owen a tool, Hargreaves a tool, David James on another space cake planet!

Are Refs really cheats, brainwashed or just dumb fucking twats? Can they be so easily influenced that they abandon all principles? I hear so much about the respect campaign how about officials needing people to have respect for the job they do. How about respect for the paying public who have to put up with this crap?

Maybe now after yet another abysmally poor showing, the rest of you doubters will admit Osman is finished. It's you fans who keep him were he is with all the back-slapping comments and the relaxed attitude to Leon's shittness. It makes me Ill watching Osman play – he really is that bad. It's worse than the extended highlights of Eastenders watching Osman plod around the pitch like he is looking for a pound coin he dropped earlier. Terrible player leaving huge gaps and not picking up.

The only real blame though for this defeat is the shithouse Ref who ruined what would've been a great game for us if Milner had seen a straight Red for a horror tackle, but no... the fat cheating cunt flashes only a Yellow and then hands City a penalty that would shame a Sunday League game. These retarded anoraks who are destroying football will never learn. They don't care as long as David Ellerey, Graham Poll or some other dickhead pats them on the back after the game. The thing is the crap pundits say about these things levelling themselves out over a season is fucking hilarious. Fuck all levels out. Just ask anyone when the last time a shitbag in the middle gave a penalty at Old Trafford?

I'm not complaining though. 5th in the table and first loss after the 7th game isn't too bad at all. If we can just be more consistent over 90 minutes then why can't we get top 4?

We have a long long way to go to challenge City, Chelsea and I suspect also Arsenal and Spurs, maybe even Liverpool who all move the ball quicker than we do. I don't think with Moyes on board that Man Utd will do anything other than be average.

Barkley had a poor day, but he was due one, at his age you cannot perform at top levels all the time. City completely neutralised both our full backs today, Baines desperately needs Pienaar back ASAP, Mirallas and Deulofeu just don't combine with him.

It would have been very easy for City if that was true; as ever with most Osman bashing, it isn't.

Barkley barely completed a pass all game. If he's good enough to be in the first team, then it shouldn't matter how many years he's got ahead of him. It's not a nursery or a finishing school; his performance wasn't good enough in that game, end of — regardless of how much potential he has.

Ref was awful but we were murdered second half by a better team.
We faded like we did against Newcastle, looks like we need more basic fitness, started great but faded badly.

Coleman was terrible, Barkley after 10mins had a poor game, McCarthy was very sound I thought and Lukaku wasn't in the match second half although he didn't have much service.

Back to the drawing board after today, no top 4 on that performance!

McCarthy (who had already played 60 mins) was the one attempting to close down and win ball back, Gibson never got near a city midfielder and it is so frustrating to see a player in their coasting.

I suspect there will be a lot of posts bashing the usual suspects, Naismith, Osman etc... they didn't play well and aren't good enough for the first team but i'm not going to slag off a couple of guys who, when they do play, give 100% for Everton. I trust that our manager will also know these guys aren't good enough and in time will try to replace them with better...but while they are in our team and giving 100% I will support them.

Gibson on the other hand, a player who could be good enough but frankly, doesn't look like he can be arsed, is a far more deserving target for the boo boys.

And yes, I know he is coming back from injury (yet again) but I don't think he's looked like he could be bothered for some time.

It doesn't make it right though and it deprives footy fans of watching teams win or lose on the merits of the players. Similarly yellow cards are hurriedly issued to players who play for the less rich clubs whilst the chosen clubs players are always given the benefit of the doubt, especially if they represent England at international level.

A dubious penalty given to Everton today and we go on to win = media frenzy and calls for the referee to be reprimanded.

Same decision given to City and they go on to win = passing mention and Journo's waxing lyrical about how clever the players of the big club are, and the Referee is free to do it all again in his next fixture.

He obviously doesn't care. Get rid.

How key is Barry's acquisition looking now... Expect RM to sort things out in the next 2 weeks

In terms of personnel, the midfield struggled as the game developed, Osman against Toure was a mismatch, Naismith didn't seem able to stop Kolarov overlapping and when Aguero dropped deep Barkley didn't pick him up. Mirallas only contributed in fits and starts and we definitely missed Barry. Man for man, City have better players across the middle, who of the above would get in their team?

So let's be realistic, the football is better, we have pace on both flanks and with Barkley and Lukaku we have a threat down the middle. For me Osman is a waste of space, too slow and ineffective, and Naismith is just not up to this level, his first touch is poor and his choice of passes at times leaves me bewildered. 2 from Barry, McCarthy and Gibson plus Mirallas and Pienaar with Deulofeu as back up looks as good as we have had in some years.

As for Naismith...I just cannot see what he offers...yes he gives’s 100% but most of the time he runs around like a headless chicken and the majority of the time he does actually have the ball he either gives it away or kicks it out of play...RM could pick thousands of Evertonian’s out of the crowd to do that....Reminds me very much of Rod Belfitt who IMO is the worst player I have ever seen in a blue shirt....right at this moment, in Naismith, Rod has a contender for his title...

Yes, we never recovered second half, but my read of the game was the damage was done in the first half with what looked to be two clear penalty decisions not given for us. We should have been 3-1 up at the break and the players knew it — they knew they'd been robbed by a cheating referee... a feeling underlined when he did not show Milner a straight red for that horrible challenge on McCarthy.

Second half, I'd've hoped they'd come out with a real fire in their bellies.... that didn't happen, though, as City ran rings around them after the break, so happy were they to know the ref was going to make sure they won this game.

So... nonsense you say? I wish it were, but sadly methinks I speak the truth.

Hit the nail on the head!

It was in the last third that we lost this game, they just couldn't pass the ball, lost possession, the ball came back at them with interest and the pressure built up.

One player I was impressed with was McCarthy, plenty of timely tackles and was everywhere on the pitch. I also say well done Naismith good link up play and put himself about.

Both Barkley and Lukaku showed their youth (or the worst side of it), they had their good moments, but they were both a bit naive and predictable. Barkley getting caught in possession and when the ball was hoofed up to Lukaku he tried to turn his marker and run at goal every time instead of holding it up and waiting for support (too predictable) and was also disposed.

It wasn't the system that failed today, it was individuals. We proved first half we could hurt city.

It would have been better for Everton to play 3 at the back and give both full backs, Coleman and Baines, the freedom to get forward. In the end, both players were caught in two minds, whether to stay back or get forward, as there was little or nothing ahead of them from both flanks.

Playing Kone and Lukaku together may prove a better attacking option because Lukaku can't carry on taking the attack to the opposition by himself all the time.

I do agree with the dirty challenge from Milner – and also Silva got away with a booking in the first half for the foul on Lukaku and the ref waved play on. Despite that, we were clear losers.

We have all lived with the appalling penalty decisions from referees in our games over the years – and at the big grounds, the home team gets the nod.

Everton cannot and should not let bad refereeing decisions affect their game, as you are suggesting – they should rise above it and play twice as hard. Because during this long season ahead, we will again be confronted with many more awful decisions.

The Spanish Wonderkid, Gibson and Kone seemed happy to be onlookers when they came on as Mirallas yet again fails to put in a full shift.

Far too much 'fancy-dan' today and we shall pick up some pastings with too many Wiganlike displays like 2nd half on Monday and all match this Saturday.

Points lost in those opening matches seem more vital now we've look likely to continue to be turned over by the big boys when away from home.

Still, we are having a go for a change.

Ross didn't have good game today, he definitely needs to be doing more defensively for me, good to get praised to the heavens when he does well, but he'll only learn if told where he needs to improve!
If the stats say I'm wrong I'll hold my hands up.

Bit of a moot point though as I don't think they actually are anyway. When Pienaar is fit Naismith won't start and Roberto must be coming to the conclusion that his 2 central midfielders are Barry and McCarthy (i'd be worried if he isn't).

Bottom line: they don't pick themselves; they didn't sign themselves for Everton, and all they can do is their best when selected to play. If they are not trying or doing their best, then fine, give them all the abuse you want.

Ultimately, if their best is not good enough then you have to hope the manager will see it as well and move them on, replacing them with players he thinks are good enough.

The point I made, was that its easy to pick out these guys who are clearly struggling. Of the players we have at the club at the moment however if anyone deserves/needs a massive kick up the backside, it's Gibson.

Email Señor Roberto,he will tell you

We were lucky not to have conceded 5 or 6. This is what happens when you are naive enough to think you can go toe to toe with superior opposition. To play 3 central midfielders, none of whom can tackle, is just sheer stupidity.

Lukaku has pulled Martinez out the shit a couple of times this season but we can't rely on him to do it every week. Barkley was out of his depth and found out. Gibson was put on too late (he should have started), Kone is a joke of a signing — I would rather we kept a young Anichebe who doesn’t laugh when we get beat. Martinez will find his level sooner rather than later.

Thought up to that point we were more than a match for a club that has spent close to a billion on players and playing at home desperate to improve on their recent results.

Surprised nobody has mentioned Baines worst game in an Everton shirt (IMO).

Noticed a few times he was strolling around the pitch.

I guess he has decided he is going in January

Super Kev looking very poor can't be fit, and Naismith and Osman should not be anywhere near the first team he just gets over run time after time.

Still think Robbie will sort it, a good season on the way it will be a rollercoaster ride of ups and downs. Sit back and enjoy..

Other than the soft penalty for City, and the none red for Milner (did he get a clear view?) he wasn't the deciding factor.

I didn't think we should have got pens though... Naismith got a shove but had already played the ball too far ahead of him which was cleared before he hit the deck.

2nd half Lukaku was playing on the half way line, and Martinez took him off for Kone. WTF? Took Mirallas off, when Del should have been on for Naismith, WTF? And whatever Gibson was supposed to do it didn't work.

We did though play some good through balls but Naismith and Kev's touch let them down.

Hull and Villa next. Lukaku will probably rip them up all on his own, but he's papering over cracks your average striker can't.

Naismith — did as well as most on the park for me today, certainly better than the second biggest disappointment of the season after the badge... Mirallas. I wouldn't miss him at all at the moment.

Ossie — too lightweight to play a defensive midfield role, he can only play the role occupied by Ross for me so hard to slag him off if the manager thinks he's good enough to play there.

Weak midfield was always going to be an issue today and so it proved, with City, unsurprisingly, dominating that area and killing off most of our forward play in the second half. But for me the biggest worry is the lack of stamina shown this season, especially in the last two games. (I don't think it was frustration at the decisions going against us, Michael; if it were, then God help us as bad decisions are part and parcel for the teams who don't warrant arse licking from referees.).

Fannying around with the ball is one thing but lacking the energy to sustain it is another, we will drop points against lesser but fitter teams than City if we can't sustain the tempo needed to play the passing game. Get them down to the sand dunes tomorrow, Martinez, you've got to win the battle and the war in this league!

Gibson was only brought on to stop us from conceding 4 or 5.

I agree with you re Kone, he is terrible, but it was the last roll of the dice really before we totally ran out of ideas.

I was glad to see Delboy come on, but by that point we looked so demoralized there was scant opportunity for him to effect the game. I thought most of our side had a good first half, but Naismith was terrible in the second and I can't believe Kone replaced Lukaku and not Nais, His touch is appalling!

I'm disappointed we didn't show more in the second half, but this was always going to be a very tough game so I'm going to be philosophical about it. Time to rest and regroup and hopefully bounce back against Hull!

City played much better than they did against Bayern and they did not take defensive liberties as they did against Villa. They bounced back as every top team should and we can still hold our heads up as its our first defeat against possible title winners on their ground.

Looking at their bench was enough to understand the gulf (money wise) and they could afford to lose a player or two without diminishing their strength. By comparison we are still a squad who will trouble any side in the league. I just hope that money is available in January to give to Martinez to sign players he identifies as required. We missed Pienaar's effort and industry today as Baines had no real support going forward so we had no threat down that wing. In a long season in different weather conditions a strong squad is needed to keep up the impetus gained by having a good start. We still need at least two more top players and possibly more to sustain a challenge against the better sides in the league.

Mirallas and Gibson are not fully fit and Osman is just back from injury, but we do not have players who can slot into the team without losing impact. All our players are trying their best for the club and they were beaten today by a top team away from home. I still think that Martinez approach is good and Im sure he will identify players who will strengthen the squad. Don't forget that Lukaku and Barry are both on loan as is young Del Boy. Kone, Jelavic and others should be aiming to make sure that those loan players are not automatic starters, otherwise we will be lost when they return to their owners.

That said, we learnt a bit more about our squad of players if they are capable to regularly challenge for major trophies.

Osman, Naismith and Distin cannot play at the highest level. Osman just wasn't there in an attacking, defensive or physical sense, just outclassed.

Distin is just too old to react against the standard of Aguero.

Naismith doesn't contain the mental belief to play at his best in any big game. There was one long ball sent to him in the 2nd half and I said out loud "he will kick this out of touch", which he did, simply because there was a player 10 yards in front if him. No confidence.

Replace these players and we are title challengers.

I was also disappointed with Kone replacing Lukaku. RM should have got Naismith off instead. I knew the game was over after this. I think RM had given up.

Still, we are generally heading in the right direction. A little more fine tuning to continue.

COYB

To be honest, I thought we played far worse at West Ham yet, because we won, everyone thought we were boss. Equally here, considering the opposition, I didn't think we were that bad, certainly not in the first half.

I think our fitness is an issue (god knows why), and our lack in quality when you scrape below a first 11, but these are problems that everyone outside of the moneyed 6 has to deal with. Everyone could have played out their skin, Roberto could have been tactically perfect, but you only need one bad ref or one outrageous bit of quality and you've lost the game.

I know we're all into blaming ourselves for anything that happens on the football field (well by ourselves I mean formerly Moyes now Osman and Naismith) but sometimes you just have to accept when you're not going to get anything and today was one of those days. They were/are better than us due to the ridiculous team they've assembled, some of our players didn't perform although it was in my eyes a decent showing, and the ref made sure we had absolutely no chance of getting anything by killing the game off.

Sometimes you just have to move on rather than looking for reasons why all of our players aren't entirely perfect all the time and why they aren't managed by a tactically perfect manager who gets them right all the time.

I think City shaded it though. Nevertheless there is still reason for optimism. At least we look like we might score whenever we attack, which is by and large a change from the Moyes’s regime.

Under RM we will face more ups and downs and there’ll be more of a roller coaster but I much prefer the type of football.

Lukaku has now disappeared in consecutive second halves: I wonder if the Special One spotted this element in his make up? As for Kone, I know he recovering from injury but he need to play a little better if he is to draw so much attention to himself with that sort of hairstyle.

I can forgive him losing possession because he is trying to create stuff, although he overdid it at times today. But I can't accept a lack of work rate. I can only assume he has been told to play in that advanced position and get into positions to hurt the opposition. Against a team with the attacking quality of City that is naive in the extreme.

I was surprised to hear RM talking about how we made it an open game. If we did that deliberately there was only ever one likely outcome. Nine goals conceded in four games is a bit worrying despite the fact we have played some exciting football in all those games.

I'm disappointed with the second half, we just collapsed, I can only think their not fit enough,
but with a pre season, Internationals and 6 Prem. games before today its puzzling, they should be match fit!

By common consent, the ref was very poor, football is a game where multi millions are hinging on ref decisions, the FA. need to get a grip.
Almost if not all refs favour 'the fancy money clubs' with decisions, we know its a hard job but they should be punished more severely when making glaring crucial mistakes.
Look at what happens in the penalty box now, there's usually 3 or 4 groups of players having a wrestling match, against the rules isn't it, give penalties they'll soon stop.

Still. Tough game today and thought we would struggle without Gibson or Barry. With a bit of luck we may have got a point but City deserved all 3 just about.

2 weeks to improve fitness and get Gibson and Pienaar fit.

So tired of this Premier League syndicate. My feelings reflected quite well above by Marshy.

Yes we were robbed, if their penalty was given, then the shove in Lukaku's back was nailed on. Silva could/ should have had three yellow cards, Milner should have walked . . .but thats what happens at these grounds, you get fuck all. its the way you deal with getting fuck all that counts, feeling sorry for ouselves wont get us where we want to be.

The Marshy's of this world would have you believe our problems start and finish with Ossie, its utter bollocks of course. Some of our younger players were forced to learn some very harsh lessons today. perhaps our young manager too.

Disappointing result and performance (second half) , but not a disaster, our players and manager would have learned far more today than they did when we beat the Geordies.

There'll be more defeats, but as long as we keep learning . . We'll get there

And the other nagging trend in recent matches: we are giving away a few goals aren't we. No, not going down the Martinez teams can't defend easy road, although I will say that we are not set up as soundly defensively as this time last year but there are also much better things going on than this time last year. I'm worried about Jagielka and Distin but Jagielka in particular. Yes, I clapped loudly at two or three interceptions/tackles, but he really is making too many mistakes and poor judgments. He worries me and Distin had for him a little howler today. Answer? Dunno.

And today as we saw key players were poor: count 'em, Ross, the two Belgos. the lad from Sligo, England's best left-back. And a handful were utter shite: Osmanwhose tussle with Toure was pretty even when all was said and done eh (!), Naismith (not saying anything), Del-Barca (sadly),a nd Gibson was pure shite and a trifle tele-tubby.

If I ever ever ever see Kone laughing away cheerfully when leaving the pitch after (1) a defeat and (2) an amateurish divvy display by said so-called striker then I will ......

The other thing that is grating me is the insistence on starting these games at the top teams venues with 10 or even sometimes 9 players who are good enough for the Premier League. I can't for definite say what Naismith's performance was like but, judging by the comments, he turned in yet another sub-standard performance as regards his skill level if not his work-rate. If we haven't got somebody better in the squad to play instead of him, I despair.

Roberto Martinez should have Kone in for extra-training assuming he is not on International duty and get the guy fit. Does he think he has made it, now he is I assume on better money than he got at Wigan? Our performances have been good from a football perspective but some of those unwanted habits appear to have remained and we need every player to perform to their best for every minute of every match, if we want to get European football.

Yes, the referee was shite, but I don't think the performance was worthy of anything anyway. Sometimes, you have to put your hands up and say... we were poor, but city are obviously very good.

Highlight for me today (other than Lukaku goal) was McCarthy's performance in the middle. Some people may have thought we over-paid for him, but this kid is going to be a top top player and the fee will look like a bargain in a few years time.

Shocking refereeing spoilt what could have been a good game today although I can't agree with most on here regarding Milner's tackle. Never a red. Just a strong hard tackle that was probably worth a yellow. We could have done with a few of our fannies (Barkley, Deulofeu) putting in tackles like that today. Not jumping out of them.

It's not the defenders that have changed, it is the system. They are not receiving as much cover while we play in such an open manner.

Unfortunately that's a result of playing more attractive and attacking football which I think nearly all are enjoying. I said last week that sometimes, especially against quality sides away from home, you need a Plan B. I haven't seen one yet.

As far as him smiling is concerned at the end, he's talking to Toure who he probably knows from International duty, we don't know what they were talking about!

I've seen him a few times; he's decent — not as good as Lukaku, but few are.

Poor Everton performance.

A clutch of our lads poor today, subs included, so let's not have posts which single out one player. A bit of honesty, please.

Judging Kone, coming back after injury, is unfair. Guilty of laughing? Ridiculous criticism. Our strongest eleven would, I believe, have won today. A weakened team needs 100% from the journeymen. We got that. Unfortunately some of the supposed quality players were spineless.

"Also, it would be a huge bonus if Ross Barkley was 10% of the player he thinks he is."

Completely out of order with that comment.

That penalty killed the game though.

It's impossible to function when the official in charge has decided to award the game to City on the basis of them being the richer club. It's actually a scandal that goes on every week and seems to affect us more than others. Some would call it cheating.

For those of you who think it was just a case of being outplayed – think again. That twat in the middle fucked us over big-time today. Imagine a boxer trying to get his combinations off, only for the ref to dive in every time and then allow the other guy to throw shots in the clinches... That's what we were contending with today.

It couldn't've been more blatant if the shithouse's name was Collina... Tossers the lot of them.

There's no way around it – we have to face up to the fact that until we get a filthy rich owner and get top billing on MotD, we will never get a ref to cheat on our behalf.

McCarthy was a bright spot for me and like some others - although I'm having a miserable grey day (still 9 hours until a respectable beddy-byes time) - I'm trying to rationalize this as losing to a pricey star-full Citeh team but then I remember our recent record against them but that was under him!

Ross is class and so far as I can tell for what it's worth level headed with feet on the ground.

P.S. That Sammon fella don't like the workers, I mentioned them once but I think I got away with it.

Our midfield is made up of experience at breaking up attacks, young players who will take time to develop and older players who are past their prime. We do not have a creative midfielder who can open up the opposition..

Yes we played poorly in the second half but I think so far this season the signs of improvement are encouraging.

I'm beginning to think that even Jelavic has more to offer than Kone and it looks like we have been sold a pup with this one. Gibson is no longer a 'go-to' player and Barry was so sadly missed against his rightful employers.

On the credit side, McCarthy looks class although at the fee paid he should do. I see nothing in Del Boy to inspire me and Naismith continues to be no more than a willing workhorse playing totally above his level.

On this showing - albeit against a moneybags team- we still need to add three players of quality to the squad. When was it any different?

We've been riding high, but we had a reality check today is my conclusion, we saw the difference that 'loads of money' players can make to a team, unfortunately that's what the Prems. become a money comp.
I admire what RM is trying to achieve, but its asking perhaps too much to expect us to come to City and beat them at their own game,
I think there's a time and place to play pure football (for want of a better word) and maybe today wasn't it!
He has said teams need to have different options, I think we need to find some if we want to challenge the top boys.

That doesn't excuse their dirty tactics stopping us playing time after time. Two clear pens not given to us and their pen a gift from Moss, similar to the one against Fellaini last season. Overall, a poor display, especially in the second half when we posed no threat at all.

MotM: Distin.

There is lots to be positive about; with Barry, Pienaar and Gibson back and fully fit, I think we have every shot of mixing it with the big boys. Barkley and Lukaku will have bad moments but will hopefully get better with more time together.

No need to beat yourself up about your first post, getting a bit of stick when you have played badly is part of the learning process.

We cant say if your good enough your old enough and then overlook poor performances.

You were right in your second post too, Ross is a huge talent, but he's in with the big boys now, if he doesnt keep striving, the David Silva's of this world will always run rings around him

He has had a bit of a chasing today, his concentration levels nosedived and his passing was careless, but he's is a big lad with broad shoulders. He'll be slightly better prepared next time he face's top draw players.

I don't think we need to be too concerned about his future

Think that RM has done a fantastic job to date, enjoying the football win, lose or draw. Really good once more to be an Evertonian.

Perhaps another England appearance might resore his confidence?

Nobody's disputing that Barkley was poor, I just thought the slight on his character was uncalled for - particularly when he's such a grounded lad.

Anyway, we all say things without thinking them through and I think Andy's right to admit he may have done so.

I think we should go all out and sign Tom Ince in January, that midfield would excite me.

Dan, I thought he gave us nothing today. He's dodgy tracking back and today he didn't even show going forward. And his understanding with Baines was poor. Bainsey told him so a few times.

I know we were relatively poor, and had we all been at the top of our game we may have done better but when you have the likes of Negredo and Ageurro they're not gonna fluff ALL the chances they get.

Disappointed, but not totally down hearted. We'll come good again but battling it out against the haves will always be hard for the have nots.

What an odd statement. So RM should have just told the players that the ref's a dud and to accept that we're doing to get screwed all game?

What's your opinion on them looking like they tired, Tony?

The worry is that we don't have anyone else who can really play that position. Perhaps Mirallas or maybe Pienaar or Deulofeu but it's neither of their natural games.

What annoyed me was that second half performance. We didnt do anything!! Only McCarthy played really well, whilst we were slaughtered by a good City side. But only one chance was made, it is really disappointing.

Naismith was better than Mirallas and Barkley today. Im sorry, the latter two were both awful in the game, and this is another game, whenever we lose, to bash Osman and Naismith, just as this site always does. Yes, Osman and Naismith are only squad players, and Mirallas and Barkley are better players, but where are people criticising them?

McCarthy was a bright spot though. With Barry back, that is going to be a fantastic pairing.

The boy looked class! today.

I feel a lot happier now.

Can I say (and I will) a big thank you to the Boston. Evertonians and the Banshee Pub. Great guys who's hospitality made a shite game a memorable and great experience.

Cheers to the boys in Boston. TY

Listened to first half on radio and caught last 30 minutes in pub. One thing I didn't notice (and it was the same on Monday) is all the graft that James McCarthy is apparently putting in (according to the good folk on TW).

I actually thought our central midfield was conspicuous by its absence in the portion of the game I witnessed, not showing for balls from the defenders nor working hard to back-up the attackers, and yet also somehow absent when they brought the ball forward.

Naismith and Coleman (who has got some stick on this thread) seemed to be isolated for much of the time because no-one was backing them up through the middle.

I hope that MotD show enough of the game for me to see what other people were impressed with.

To say we are heading for the Championship is a ridiculous over-reaction to a defeat at the hands of a world-class side. I can't see many teams picking up points at The Etihad this season.

It was Manchester City we were playing, who for once at their place weren't utterly complacent about playing us, due to their poor results in the last week or so. I knew when they lost to Villa last Saturday that our task was going to be difficult at the Etihad, even more so when Barry couldn't play against them.

The fickle fluctuations of a football fan, is the same the whole world over. But I agree that Everton FC shouldn't be relying on loan players and neither should any other club with European ambitions, but you'll notice a club not too far away also have a player on loan from Chelsea.

If Roberto Martinez thinks that this season may be a challenging one, next season may be an even greater one - cash or lack of it being the perennial problem. But for this season let's not get too carried away by individual results and let's see how far we can go.

But of course this wasn't just about a young player showing just how much he needs to come on. Mirallas was aweful. Coleman much worse, he cost us two goals and frankly whilst I love his swashbuckling runs, he doesn't has Hibberts concentration and discipline and I can see him getting a rest. Our Chelsea "mistake" had another great first half but a combination of poor service and better defending saw him fade badly alongside his colleagues.

But the biggest let down was another insipid, flat, low tempo, no urgency 45 minutes which really scares me in terms of the new mgrs approach. I thought we would quickly move to three man defence with wing backs and at least have a right go. Instead we just played out a losing game, tired and seemingly disinterested. Yes the ref was embarrassingly poor but that hides the real concern, that we just capitulated and gave City a very easy afternoon.

I wanted to see Roberto's stylish attacking approach. I really wanted to enjoy watching us again. But much as I know its a hypocritical and yes a bit dull, I can't abide this lacklustre tippy tippy midfield showboating when it means we give the ball away frequently and leave a pretty good defence badly exposed. I don't care that we were playing the richest club side in the world. One nil up and starting so well we shouldn't fade so badly and lose our way so completely. The team didn't look fit enough for even twenty minutes of puppies at play let alone dogs of war.

We should beat Hull next up but that's not the issue here. Martinez has to quickly decide whether he wants to go with his preferred style of three centre backs and wing backs.....I really think Stones alongside Distin and Jags can be solid and with Barry and McCathy sitting in front of them we have bite and discipline. If we are to give it a real go then this has to be worth a try, it's basically the Roberto way. Right now at times we look a bit lost and yes I can say that despite three good wins.

The lesson that (from city's terms) if you throw enough money at it, sometimes it will stick and you will get what you pay for.

The lesson that Barkley ( to name 1 ) and Martinezes tenure is work in progress.

The lesson that a good few Players won't be here in 2 yrs time if we are to progress. to Roberto's new Jerusalem or given his Spanish connections Compostela.

James #797 There is a League for the 'proper fourteen' as you call them ...it's called The Championship.

The only thing worse than being in the Premiership is NOT being in the Premiership

Oh and if he's not the worst Reff we've had up to now I'll eat my hat

One game at a time, there are going to be days like this.

Sort out the defence Roberto.

I have seen Coleman and Distin blamed on this thread for goals which cannot be placed at their feet, The defenders have to try to hold a line which a clever and quick attacker will exploit. We simply have to try to stop the ball being played in the first place, which means tons of hard work and closing down for the midfielders. James McCarthy looks good with the ball, but he is the one we need to become a major pain in the arse for the opposition play-makers.

I know James Martin (for one) will disagree, but that is something that I thought Fellaini was actually very good at (I don't care how poorly he may be playing for his new club).

Patrick Carty 939 Just watched Duncan Ferguson the legend on YouTube.... I feel a lot happier now.

Don't get me wrong, I'm loving the excitement, but it is costing us dear. Moyes took great pleasure at point gaining from 'Alamo type' defensive performances and I often panned him for it.

Now I'm not so sure that we have players of sufficient quality to balance the two main facets of the game.It cost Wigan dear and if we don't take more of our chances,flair players like Mirallas and Del Boy, in particular, just become pointless luxuries.

But we were playing one of the most talented teams yesterday - it's the Cardiffs,Stokes and Crystal Palaces we need to be battering.

Also, everyone going on about how many goals we have conceded, we have conceded 9 goals in 7 games, and 3 of them came in one game, so hardly shipping them in.

We get you can't get over him but he's gone and isn't coming back - just pack it in please.

If a team with lesser players and resources play to their potential and a team with better players play to theirs there is only one outcome.

Football was ever thus - that is all that happened yesterday.

I like this fresh approach under Roberto Martinez, my only slight gripe is the team looks slightly too open but I'm sure they know this and hopefully more games will tighten it up.

I'm certainly not asking for a return to 'Moyes stuff' but my fear is that we may be heading in a similair but different direction. The greatest criticism was always a lack of tactical flexibility under Moyes and for me that it was what we saw yesterday.

Going to City is always going to be tough, they have won 36 of the last 42 PL games at home, so no real surprise at the result but if we think we are going to play an open game against players of that quality we are likely to keep getting beaten.

We were missing two key players for me in Barry and Pienaar but we were set up wrong and we didn't work hard enough when not in possession of the ball. That's got fuck all to do with Moyes but all to do with RM.

Failure to recognise a new way of playing MUST be experimental with plus and minuses along the way probably for the best of a season is precious indeed.

Not only is it new but a proportion of the players simply won't be up to it and need weeding out.

To draw any hard and fast conclusions as above with such a variable in the mix is bonkers.

Presently we have a span of claims predicting relegation to finishing in the CL spots, if that doesn't illustrate the futility of conclusions at this early stage I really don't know what does.

With Ross Barkley given relatively free roll and not chipping in for the ugly side then there is only one outcome.

I'm not pinning it totally on Barkley as too many stood and admired City. Roberto Martinez set it up wrong and should have had Heitinga in to stop Toure.

Get a proper defensive coach in there Roberto or we will be in shit street after Xmas. Teams are finding too much room and are able to run at our defence.

Now, Osman, a holding centre mid - not a fucking hope, it is not even a topic you could discuss. Osman was left hanging (I mean hanging) for both speed and body weight - no, not just with Toure but Silva & Aguero were both breezing past him. Say what that fuck you like but I really don't care - I go to the games, I sit with the supporters and we ALL feel the fucking same, match after fucking match Osman get's pulled apart.

So with Osman gone missing then McCarthy had to do the lot. Could it get worse, of - fucking - course. Mirallas could not give a fuck, he was injured so it was obviously at gun point that he was forced to play - what the fuck was that all about. He could not wait to come off. So for the 60 odd minutes that he played, McCarthy and Baines had to do HIS donkey work - hence very fucking little attacking play from Baines.

RM took too many chances yesterday and a lot of his chances were in the midfield - his 4 man plan consisted of an injured (I don't give a fuck) Mirallas, Osman in CM (ha fucking ha), McCarthy and Naismith (who believe it not started well, say the first ten mins, then reverted to his normal shite self). City, after 20 minutes, had the midfield area well and truly sorted. Now me I would have sorted that problem out pronto - fuck I would have played Robles in CM rather than Osman, fuck it, I would have dragged a blue supporter from the away end and he (or she) would have played better than Osman. Fucking fact.

RM really needs to look at himself and his players regarding that THAT midfield because believe me it was shite. Oh yeah, Barkley's game added salt to the wounds and the ref was obviously an Arab - with a big fat fucking wedge on City to win.

This was far worse than last weeks second half.

I know we didnt have Barry available and Gibson just coming back but Deulofeu should be ahead of those 2 surely.

Lets take Hull apart in 2 weeks and resume the winning habit.

Trying to match city in the technical and individual ability stakes was always gonna be tough.

It might not of been pretty but reckon a tireless dogs of war approach is sometimes the right way.

However as the game went on they got themselves together and the class of Silva and Aguero began to tell. It was a real shame we conceded so close to half time as it may well have altered how we went about the second half. After the break they came out strong again but our passing got really sloppy. Still at 1-2 I still thought we might get a lucky break and nab a draw. The penalty was soft, but they always looked like they would get something and after that point we looked finished.

Just as I wasn't getting (too) carried away after our recent run, I'm no going to overact to this defeat. Yes the second half performance was disappointing, but I'm bearing in mind that this team of multi-million pound players were at home, desperate to bounce back after a poor run and they recently smashed Man Utd at the Etihad by a larger margin. At worst this was a point dropped. More lessons to learn and hopefully a positive reaction against Hull after the break!

Regarding Osman and Naismith. I have said it many times before, but neither of them should be starting. I think we need to strengthen the midfield in January as well as getting in another striker.

I agree with some of that. The changes will take time, I have said that on a number of occasions. There has been some very encouraging stuff and we have more points than I expected us to at this stage.

But that doesn't mean we should all just sit by and say it will all be alright in the end when there are some worrying signs that accompany the progress we have made in some areas. There are some who used to be critical of a 7th place position arguing that we should expect more now saying what do you expect given the difference in resources.

Just out of interest
What midfield would you have picked yesterday?

Now I am not saying that some of the other players don't have off days but these two seem to have more than most and Osman has been way past his sell-by date for a long time. Yesterday, it was obvious that City were going to come back hard and the defensive side of Everton's game was exposed again especially when you really needed to park the bus with players like Barry, Heitinga and a fully fit Gibson.

A learning experience at last for Martinez? Hopefully.

Not very ambitious I know, but that's how it is and quite a task at that!

I can't actually believe the jerky knee mob want to even begin to write off any manager, or judge how this new playing style will see us all doomed to mediocrity, or even relegated.

Another thing - there will be more defeats like yesterday. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.

I'd put more of the shit in Mirallas's face than Ossie and Nasmith, they may not be world beaters but they give 100%.

You can't expect to carry three players against City and get a result, our squad isn't good enough but hopefully RM is looking to strengthen in January.

We all know what that little porkie means.

The international break could be just what we need!

Fair comment but for me post match hindsight can seem like cheating. Though lets get one thing straight, not you or even the great man above will ever convince me about starting with Osman. Local lad or not he is shite.

First off, this is City, on their turf who we are playing so with our injuries you would have to look at keeping the ball and making them work hard to get it - a goal would be great (oh fuck - we did that bit).

Oviedo, McCarthy, Heitinga & Coleman (with Stones at RB), would suit me - we would need to get into City and not let them rest, basically a holding midfield. Lastly, that dirty fucker Milner needs a kick, any part of body would do.

Everton have several decent midfield players but that one missing ingredient could take this team to the next level. They should look to get rid of some of the underachievers in January and try to get that midfield kingpin.

If he’s gonna make it, it will have to be as the supporting forward IMO. His decision making and his closing-down aren’t up to playing centre-mid.

Having said that we should have defended better for both their goals, I thought Coleman was ball watching for the first and seemed completely unaware that Negredo was making a run on his blind side. For the second I thought Tim Howards positioning was very poor. But no team plays consistently well all season as results this season have shown even the so called Sky 4 have lost games most thought they should win easily, and I doubt many would have thought we would beat City at the Etihad despite our recent run of results against them.

Martinez can only work with what he's got. Some of the criticism of Osman and Naismith is ridiculous but who else did Martinez really have to pick? After McCarthy who else could play centre mid apart from Osman and Gibson. Gibson wasn't fit for the full 90 so Osman played. I know some people want to go really mad and just chuck Ludstram in for his professional debut away at the Etihad, some have forgotten every time Heitinga has ever played in there for us and bizarrely want to repeat those horrific experiences (probably the same people who criticised Moyes for too many defenders and playing people out of position but there we go), and others like to distort reality and just pretend that Osman wasn't playing centre mid and that Deulofeu was somehow a viable replacement for him. Who else could Martinez have chosen? The only option I could think of would be to move Barkley back alongside McCarthy to make a completely new midfield pairing with two players who have never played in those positions away at the Etihad - hardy going to happen.

Likewise with Naismith. Mirallas barely hobbled out and was always going to need replacing at some point. Who else in the team could play left wing. Deulofeu was probably in Martinez's mind as the sub for Mirallas and if we were behind, which we were, what would be the point of bringing on Naismith? Who else did Martinez have to play on the left iwng? Oviedo, a left back with barely any big game experience? Perhaps but the options are hardly overflowing for Martinez.

Had this game been Crystal Palace at home we'd be sat on the back of another comfy win snugly ensconsced in the top 4 and everyone would be happy. an away loss at the best side in the league and people are questioning our very existence as a premier league side and the effectiveness of proven premier league players who have played well for us for whole seasons.

Ok, we may not be able to afford the extra players needed to play many different ways I don't know, could be a factor, and another reason why weathier clubs end the season at the top of the table!

I see Tottenham have got beat and Arsenal held to a draw today, which again points to the Prem. being wide open this season.
Maybe the result and our performance although disappointing wasn't so bad in that contex!

If we can keep on playing as we have been until January and stay in the top bunch of teams the window will be a great opportunity for Roberto to bring in two or three players who will fill in the gaps. Long term we need a top class striker, but as long as Lukaku is with us midfield is the priority. The defence looked a bit shoddy yesterday, but they were up against world class players like Silva and Aguero. That's not going to happen every week.

Breaking into the Champions League would be a massive achievement and with nearly every top team in transition this season is a great opportunity to do that. However, we are in a transitional period too and we are going to have a few bad games. Overall I'm very encouraged with the direction we are headed in. If we get the squad Martinez needs together this year but miss out on the Champions League I would be more than happy. The CL is a dream and something to aim for, but it should not be the barometer by which we gauge success or failure this year.

On the bright side Barry will be available again versus Hull and hopefully Mirallas, Gibson and Pienaar should all be fit by then.

In the Chelsea match, we were still vulnerable at the back but Barry closed down rapidly and the spaces were not so obvious.

Finally, some people have blamed Coleman for the 2nd goal, some have blamed Howard. The real culprit was Distin who could and should have played Aguero offside. Actually, the striker was in an offside position just before receiving the ball but Distin decided to join him. A bad mistake for one so experienced although I did notice that he lay too deep on several occasions.

Best post on this thread

That seemed to be our main failing, too many misplaced passes breaking down our momentum and possession.

Stop calling him a left back to suit your own agenda. He's a far better option than Naismith in left midfield...and so is the Barcelona Kid.

And what's big game experience got to do with it...They're all bloody big games - it's the premiership.

As for the performance of our players, well I guess I'm entitled to say who played crap and ask why RM would put out such a weak midfield against the EPL title favourites – bearing in mind that Mirallas was definitely carrying an injury, I mean he almost hobbled onto the pitch and did absolutely fuckall (nothing).

And, like it or not, Osman was poor (and that is me being extremely kind). Not just my view, ask any blue who went to the game. For me Osman is past it or really, is he not quite as good as he thinks is? Forget the City game if you want because Silva will give most teams the run round, but he also went missing at Cardiff & West Ham, and the GP games against WBA and Newcastle (both halves).

Barkley was kept out by Moyes but RM has stuck with him in the position that he enjoys – hey presto, 1 shite game 6 good ones, what more can you ask for? For me the same can be said for Osman – drop him, his performances this season have varied between poor and fucking shite (Chelsea first half he was in the game). RM needs to replace him and for me that can be with any of current midfield player (any-fucking-one), but drop him.

James 188 – How do you view or rate the players? I mention Oviedo and you knock him back as an out of form LB, did you watch all of the West Ham game, for me he ran the left side with Baines, which allowed Baines to attack at will. This was something that we missed at City because (A) Mirallas was shite and (B) so was Delboy – believe me Baines was repeatedly shouting at Mirallas and Delboy to fucking improve their game. Oviedo has good ball control and plenty of ball skill plus the boy can tackle – West Ham had only one hit at goal (their penalty) for the whole of 2nd half, additionally you have mentioned what a good side West Ham must be as they have just turned Spurs over. For me Oviedo was the perfect fit for left midfield and no way should an unfit Mirallas play before a fit Oviedo.

But what the fuck, it's Monday; we still lost, the midfield was still shite and RM will still pick the side that plays Hull – no matter how bemused, fucked off, concerned, or totally mystified we are.

Thanks for the definition in brackets of "fuckall"
I was struggling to get your meaning there

Out of interest. Are you really Kev Johnson?

Man City were the better side in the second half but still Everton may have got something from the game, without the one-sided assistance of Mr Moss. I feel it's time for the FA to bring the beautiful game into the 21st century without relying on a referee who was clearly out of his depth.