A really disappointing game that belied Everton's dominance in terms of possession coupled with a maddening inability to carve out a single worthwhile goalscoring chance against a managerless but resolute Palace side stuck at the bottom of the League.

Roberto Martinez conservatively stuck with the same side that had played so poorly in that first half against Spurs last Sunday, and paid the price with another lacklustre display that Barkley and Deulofeu were unable to turn around after they came on just before the hour mark. E for Effort.

The game at Selhurst Park started after a 15-minute delay... Roberto Martinez has named an unchanged side to start the game against Palace this afternoon, with Lukaku declared fit and McCarthy not rested in anticipation of being booked. Osman starts despite a poor display last week, the the more excitong prospects of Barkley and Deulofeu consigned to the bench.

Barry whipped in a nice ball for Osman but he scuffed his shot horribly wide. Then some brilliant play set up another opportunity for Osman that Lukau tried to get his head to but didn't appear to make contact.

Palace won a corner fired in that Howard batted away. Everton kept pressing and probing but with nothing to show after 25 mins.

Palace came very close to the opening goal when a good cross was planted on Chemak's head but he bizarrely headed it away from goal when it seemed easierr to score!

Everton got their first corner on 37 minutes, that also should have resulted in a goal. Mirallas's second cporner was simply dreadful.

Howard made a fantastic one-handed save of a sp[eculative shot lashed in by Thomas as Everton struggled to impose themselves with susbtantial effect. Chamakh then had another easy chance that he headed wide.

Barkley finally replaced Osman after 56 minutes, Mirallas going off for Deulfeu, and immediately Everton looked brighter, a nice one-two with Lukaku and Barkley lashing his volley wide.

For Palace, Bolasie dazzled the Everton players with some magic that played in Thomas but he had strayed offside. Deulofeu tried to do it all himself on the right wing, but seemed to have been told to cuut out the step-overs and as a result he lost the ball each time.

Another Baines set-piece was drifted to the far post and Lukaku without the desired result, Everton tried to play neat attacking football but it wasn't running for them, until Deulofeu linked up well on the right with Pienaar to win the third Everton corner but it came to nothing, all crosses in being dealt with by the Palace defenders.

More pissing about at the back summed up a game that was going nowhere, Howard seemingly making more passes Lukaku played in Deulofeu who should have shot first time but decided to dribble the ball into the net through two defenders and the goalkeeper, losing the ball yet again.

Form the corner, Jagielka stooped and got a fraction beneath his header, curling it onto the face of the bar, but the packed Palace defense resisted as time and chances ticked away.

Deulofeu won another corner that Baines had two bites at but both deliveries were not up to the required standard. Jedinak had top foul Deulofeu to stop his runa nd picked up the first card of the game, setting up a classic opportunity for Baines from the set piece but his execution was shockingly poor, straight into the wall.

Another free-kick with just minutes left, Barry foulded near the bye-line and this time Deulofeu whipped it in dangerously but again headed away but a fantastic spell of passing on the left side of the Palace area that finally saw a corner and a speculative shot from Deulofeu that was well off target.

Into added time and the Blues kept pressing but nothing would run for them and them, Coleman and Moxie going for a high ball, Moxie coming off worse and staying down, possibly with concussion.

So, another 0-0 draw and this time possession dominated by Everton but the end product in front of goal was again sadly lacking, with Lukaku really not getting the service needed.

McCarthy came close to that feared booking in the last minute when he caught a Palace defender with a high foot but that was the finally action of another hugely disapointing game from a toothless Everton side that Martinez seems worryingly unable to get fully energized as we go into another unwanted International break ahead of a real test against a frighteningly in-form Liverpool side on 23 November.

Crystal Palace: Speroni, Ward, Gabbidon, Delaney, Moxey, Jedinak Y87', Dikgacoi (45' O'Keefe), Bannan (84' Puncheon), Thomas, Bolasie, Chamakh (63' Jerome)
Subs: Mariappa, Gayle, Kébé, Price. .

Everton: Howard; Coleman, Jagielka, Distin, Baines; McCarthy, Barry; Mirallas (56' Deulofeu), Osman (56' Barkley), Pienaar; Lukaku.
Subs: Robles, Heitinga, Stones, Naismith, Jelavic.

Attendance: 25,231
Referee: Craig Pawson

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Kevin McCartney
925 Posted 09/11/2013 at 15:52:53
Training session next week: corners, corners and more corners!
Ralph Basnett
927 Posted 09/11/2013 at 15:53:28
Same old same old, making a shit Palace look good!!

Is it in Martinez contract that Osman and Pienar have to start? We have done great without Pienar for long enough and Osman has already shown he is now only a bit part player, I know we have no depth in squad but surely the Spanish lad needs some real game time to gel with the team and Barkley must be thinking Hera we go again as he sits warming the bench.

Woah is me..........................

James Fletcher
928 Posted 09/11/2013 at 15:54:12
What the hell is wrong with Mirallas? He needs to learn to pass.
Ralph Basnett
929 Posted 09/11/2013 at 16:01:08
Palace are probably pissed they don’t have anything for their hard work! Tommo sitting their with a fuckin stupid grin on his face as the shite are trouncing fulham and we are struggling against the whitest team in the prem!!!!!!!!!!
Alan Burnham
930 Posted 09/11/2013 at 15:59:15
Palace are a very poor team – probably the worst in the Premier League by some distance – but, despite all our possession, they have had by far the best chances.

No real penetration up front and changes needed for second half. Surely Deulofeu can perform against this lot and neither Mirallas nor Pienaar would be missed on current form. We are so slow in our build-up.

Andy Meighan
933 Posted 09/11/2013 at 16:03:32
I did warn people this was going to be a tough game. And (like everyone else) how the fuck is Osman getting on the pitch before one of the country's brightest young midfield talents? It's getting beyond a joke. The only saving grace is we've gone in level at half-time Mirallas and Osman off; Delboy and Ross on please!
Stu Cameron
934 Posted 09/11/2013 at 16:07:13
It's really starting to piss me off now with Osman getting a start. No urgency about the lad whatsoever, and we're also only able to play one good half at the minute. Man City, Newcastle, Tottenham... Let's hope the second half is a lot better. Get Barkley and Deulofeu on. COYB.
Denis Richardson
935 Posted 09/11/2013 at 16:07:49
Really am surprised that all three attacking midfielders from last week started again this week, especially considering the effect that bringing barkely and delboy on last week had.

For the first time this season I have to question RMs decision making.

Tom Dodds
938 Posted 09/11/2013 at 16:13:19
Does anybody else believe we will never wipe the floor with anybody?
Jim Bennings
939 Posted 09/11/2013 at 16:11:38
I think we have asked for this so far. We need to hook off one of Pienaar or Mirallas and Osman and bring on Del and Barkley. This midfield needs some youthful running and energy, and thats what Barkley and Del would bring.

I am tearing my hair out with Mirallas, guy seems to have just dissappeared this season, take a man on lad and run at your full back a bit more, as for Pienaar? Why do him and Baines always need 50 passes before getting the ball in the box?

When is the last time we scored direct from a corner? I would like to know if anybody has the answer? When is the last time we scored more than 3 goals in a match? Is it really that hard? Seems like other teams do it weekly.

As for the Derby, well I am being honest in saying I am really really fearing the worst in two weeks time; I hate Suarez but I've got to say what a fucking outstanding striker that shite is.

Jim Bennings
940 Posted 09/11/2013 at 16:23:18
Worried a bit about Lukaku the last few games; the ball just isn't really sticking to him at all... Same last week; I think this is going to be a problem given the lack of striker competition he has, knowing that Jelavic is not going to cut the mustard.

I will say it again: we need quality up front in January, sign Defoe or at least try to. He will want to try and get in that World Cup squad and okay, he may not be garaunteed a first team place here, but we cannot just say Lukaku will play every week regardless of form.

Ralph Basnett
941 Posted 09/11/2013 at 16:26:12
We are getting battered like the proverbial fish, and stink as much.

It is only Palace incompetence that is saving us. Out shouted and outplayed and Mirallas is only just being pulled off....

A long afternoon and Mirallas not happy to come off, what does he think he has done to warrant staying on?

Still, Osman, Pienar and Mirallas will start in the next game....

Jim Bennings
942 Posted 09/11/2013 at 16:26:37
West Bron winning at Chelsea... Having already won 2-1 at Old Trafford.
How long is it since we last won away to one of those sides??

Fuck off, Mirallas... Start playing well and you won't get subbed! I'm getting a bit tired this season of his namby pamby behavoiur / perfomances.


Aman Kanji
948 Posted 09/11/2013 at 16:54:27
So poor. If Kevin is supposed to be so good by Roberto's opinion, why was he taken off!!!
Ralph Basnett
949 Posted 09/11/2013 at 16:58:49
No one out their biting???????
Jim Bennings
951 Posted 09/11/2013 at 17:00:49
Do we ever outclass these teams?

Our end product is shocking at times

Stephen Coles
954 Posted 09/11/2013 at 17:11:10
Really really disappointed! Our season is now over success-wise, untill the FA Cup maybe...
Kevin Rowlands
955 Posted 09/11/2013 at 17:09:30
Horrible. Its not only the lack of goals these last 2 games but the complete lack of goal scoring opportunities, when is RM going to realize that Osman isn't good enough and Mirallas needs to be benched?
Patrick Murphy
956 Posted 09/11/2013 at 17:07:03
I now think that it's time for Roberto to get a grip of this group of players. They are mostly going through the motions and its a trait that they have had for a few years. There's a lack of drive, energy and sheer will to win with a lot of the players. In fact what appalled me the most was when there were fifty-fifty challenges Palace came away with the ball, they are relegation material and we failed to trouble them apart from a few half-chances. Now we find ourselves at a cross-roads of the season with upcoming fixtures which are a lot tougher than we've faced thus far. We have failed to improve and that's a pity because it is the players who are letting themselves down and therefore letting the fans down. Happy with a point seems to be the limit of their ambitions and it isn't good enough - well not for me anyway.
Drew Shortis
957 Posted 09/11/2013 at 17:09:29
Disappointing. Much like the second two games of the season. We looked fairly comfortable but the final ball just wasn't there. With Southampton and Liverpool all winning this was a big two points dropped! Lukaku looked really out of sorts. His touch was mostly poor. Baines had a poor afternoon too.
James Byrne
959 Posted 09/11/2013 at 17:12:20
Even though we had a whole bunch of posession we we're really poor today.

Why do we have so many issues with our simple passing game; so many players are struggling with this!

Baines didn't play well at all and tbh he doesn't look interested!

Roman Sidey
960 Posted 09/11/2013 at 17:07:00
I cannot believe that the team was unchanged from last week. As has already been stated above, Martinez needs to be questioned about this.

Last week, Pienaar put in one of the worst displays in a blue shirt for a long time, yet he was still selected this week. Not only that, he took a knock, was about to come off, but told the manager he could stay, so he played 90 minutes. Is this guy serious? I think we all know which player has the picture of RM and the goat, and it only took us 11 games to find out.

Osman isn't worth the paragraph space anymore. Copy and paste the same points from last week.

Baines needs to stop reading the papers and websites and get back to playing how he used to and actually doing something with the ball. One thing a player must do after telling another player off from taking a dead ball play is actually perform a decent level of dead ball. His corners have been trash, and I don't see how Deulofeu could have done any worse.

Mirallas wasn't much better, but he was trying to get involved up front. Rom wasn't being effective as a loan striker so for the life of me I can't understand why Del wasn't brought on for Osman to push Kev into the middle with Lukaku.

All in all, that was one of the most ridiculous (not worst, just ridiculous) matches I've seen us play all season, and tactics and team selection are beginning to be Moyesian in their rigidity home and away.

Once again the charity team.

Nick Entwistle
961 Posted 09/11/2013 at 17:16:37
You can't make the bait too obvious Ralph!

Complete bollocks. The good media skills and talk of philosophy are one thing. But insipid tippy tappy is another.

We seemed to revert to early season form with this game. Slow build up and the opposition mark everyone out of the game.

You can pass pass pass about as much as you like but today the great Martinez philosophy was as creative as a Moyes team on a bad day.

We seem to have a middle ground with Martinez. All the play but none of the verve and passion of Moyes' team at its best.

Max Wilson
962 Posted 09/11/2013 at 17:15:23
Possession football by itself is'nt cutting the mustard. To-day we had "71%" of the ball and did nothing with it. We need to re-think how we are playing.
Mark Frere
964 Posted 09/11/2013 at 17:09:59
Absolute disgrace of a performance. The final ball today was atrocious, we were lucky not to be behind at half time - they had all the best chances. Our defending was sloppy - a lot of ball watching going on. At the beginning of the game Crystal Palace looked like a team with no confidence, we played that bad, that they grew in confidence. Big improvements needed.

I'm sick of idiots on this site calling people ant-Martinez just for criticising poor performances by ourselves - well NEWS FLASH: We are playing fucking shite most of the time.

Denis Richardson
966 Posted 09/11/2013 at 17:13:51
Very poor performance against the worst side in the league. Attacking wise we just did not turn up to the races again, like most of last week as well.

Only positive to take from this is the clean sheet, however if we play like this against a better side we will get thrashed. Palace deserved the 3 points today and should have scored 2 or 3. We were lucky to get the point.

Disappointing day and hard to understand what the issue is. Mirallas and Osman are really really poor at the moment. Pienaar isn't much better but at least looks like he's committed and giving 100%. Baines also looks the shadow of the player he used to be (time to take a decent offer in jan and sell?).

Two week break so hopefully the international players can get some form back playing in the country games. We need to improve A LOT as we have some tough games coming up.

Steve Brown
967 Posted 09/11/2013 at 17:21:07
Sin miedo, more like sin cojones.
Ralph Basnett
968 Posted 09/11/2013 at 17:19:49
Cheers Nick, at least someone is out their.

Very disappointed with result today, and the shite on fire is very ominous for us.

442 and to hell with tippy tappy. Barkley to shadow Gerrard, play high if Suarez is going to go down easy let it be outside the box and drop Mirallas, Osman and Pienar.

It’s easy this football management, Barkley obvious for Osman, Dela for Pienar and Jelavic for Mirallas.

Game won, move on.

Kevin Tully
970 Posted 09/11/2013 at 17:17:38
Awful display. No urgency whatsoever until the last 5 minutes. We literally looked like we were playing with a hangover, and we were trying to run it off.

Blame whoever you want, but those players are not earning their massive wages.

Martinez needs to get a grip, and quickly. It's up to him to drop players who are not putting enough effort in, and there are plenty of those.

Jagielka cannot play in this system, forget about him ever getting to grips with this fancy passing a football malarkey.

That was just an extension of the first half against Spurs, and why the fuck can't Lulaku and Jelavic play together?

I can only hope we have got our shite performances out of the way before we play the shite, Utd and Arsenal.

Points wise we are doing O.K. but the last two games have been the worst in a long time.

Baines has clearly moved to OT, and if he plays like that for them, he won't make the bench.

Steve Brown
972 Posted 09/11/2013 at 17:28:08
Ross how bad do we actually have to play before you express disappointment in the performance?
Ross Edwards
973 Posted 09/11/2013 at 17:29:43
I am disappointed Steve. I'm just not going over the top like some are on the Live Forum. You'd think we had lost 11 out of 11 the way some are going on.
Patrick Murphy
974 Posted 09/11/2013 at 17:25:04
It's one thing being genuinely disappointed by our performance and result but I don't care what the other lot are doing across the park, we can only affect them in two Premier League games. But today wasn't good enough and I believe that one or two players are not carrying the Everton baton in the way they should be.

Mid-table beckons and whilst that would have been acceptable at the start of the season, it isn't at this moment in time. RM has his work cut out in the next 12 months to instil a mentality that is a winning mentality. Everything about the players body language was wrong today; if there are players in the squad who are waiting for January, let them wait in the reserves and put the likes of Stones et al in the first team.

Robin Cannon
975 Posted 09/11/2013 at 17:28:59
Painfully ponderous. When we're not playing great then it's just horrible to watch.

I don't think formation is the issue, it was the speed we played. I lost count of the times I was shouting at the TV to play a cross early, rather than passing it around for another minute until Palace had everyone back (...followed up by some dire delivery into the area).

Only bright spot was McCarthy not getting booked, because I thought that was going to be nailed on with his foot up challenge right at the death.

Nick Entwistle
978 Posted 09/11/2013 at 17:31:04
People seem to have praised Roberto as some great visionary, yet all we knew from his positives at Wigan was that he liked to... GOSH!... pass the ball!

Seems to me you have a top 8 who are hands down above everyone else in the league. We should be having the lion's share of possession in games like these, but other than a top top striker, Martinez has brought no more than sound bites to the club.

OK, admittedly that's harsh but we've just ballsed up against 7 on the bounce Palace. The more things change, the more they stay the same.

Anto Byrne
980 Posted 09/11/2013 at 17:11:38
Both Osman and Pienaar had two very good chances, but honestly they did nothing, As ever, McCarthy ran his socks off and Barry was solid.

The pace of the game was almost walking and there seemed a distinct lack of urgency. Okay, lads, wait till everyone gets back and hit it back to the keeper just to make sure.

Overall a point in the bag from a game we should have taken 3.

Tony J Williams
981 Posted 09/11/2013 at 17:30:48
Ross we have just had a let off by the shittest team in the league.

It's a game we should be winning, we didn't so people are going to be upset.

The problem is that is is immediate, no time to think on it, so there will be many over the top posts

Tony J Williams
982 Posted 09/11/2013 at 17:30:48
Ross we have just had a let off by the shittest team in the league.

It's a game we should be winning, we didn't so people are going to be upset.

The problem is that is is immediate, no time to think on it, so there will be many over the top posts

Mike Hughes
985 Posted 09/11/2013 at 17:30:49
BBC report, "palace had 4 or 5 chances to score."

With ratboy on the end of them, that'll be 4 or 5 goals.

Sort it out, Roberto.

That was 2 points dropped and I have the feeling we've been shakey for a few weeks now (first half v nufc aside)

Honeymoon period over. Concerned.

Kevin Hudson
986 Posted 09/11/2013 at 17:31:44
We will really struggle to make Europe if one week, we cannot defeat a rival at home, and the next we become the first team not to score against a manager-less Palace.

Surely two up-top would have yielded a better result?

Stu Cameron
987 Posted 09/11/2013 at 17:35:12
Mirallas for me will never be a winger. When we bought him he was topgoal scorer in Greece and got Greek player of the year as a striker. Was hoping that Martinez would see this and utilize the lads speed, skill and eye for goal
Stu Cameron
988 Posted 09/11/2013 at 17:35:12
Mirallas for me will never be a winger. When we bought him, he was top goalscorer in Greece and got Greek Player of the Year as a striker. I was hoping that Martinez would see this and utilize the lad's speed, skill and eye for goal.
Phil Sammon
989 Posted 09/11/2013 at 17:34:35
Why is Martinez so averse to Baines or Coleman putting in a cross?

We have a man mountain in the box and we don't even give him a chance.

Andy Meighan
991 Posted 09/11/2013 at 17:29:50
That's two games in a row now where we've created absolutely fuck all. The service into Lukaku is truly atrocious and this side is seriously looking more and more laboured game by game. I've defended Martinez to the hilt. But starting with Osman and Mirallas today was criminal — it really was.

You say we're due to face a frighteningly in-form Liverpool side. I beg to differ; yes, at home they look like they've got goals galore in them... Away? I'm not so sure... although our record in derbies has got me once again shitting myself. After all, that buck-toothed bastard has been through it's a nap he'll bag a brace against us, just when we thought he was away in the summer.

Worrying recent times for the Blues and I really hope Martinez takes stock of the last two performances because, quite frankly, we've looked a poor side

Kevin Tully
995 Posted 09/11/2013 at 17:41:27
Can someone please explain how Baines, Coleman, Mirallas and even Deulofeu when he came on, couldn't beat their man every time we got forward?

I have never seen so many moves break down from either a poor pass, or the defender getting the better of the attacker.

Lukaku seemed to be surrounded every time he got the ball, so that should have opened up more space elsewhere on the pitch.

Baffling performance.

Mohammed Horoub
996 Posted 09/11/2013 at 17:33:49
Everyone saw that Osman and Mirallas had to be dropped but RM didn't want to rock the boat... Mirallas is not interested and I think more stick and less carrot is needed with him.
Everyone played like crap but my patience with Baines is starting to run out...would rather have someone leave his heart out on the pitch than someone going through the motions.
We were lucky to get a point and the thing that worries me the most is the fitness levels of the players, it's only early November and some guys look exhausted by the 60 min mark...
Next 4 games decide where we are heading but if RM doesn't sort it out it won't be fun to watch...
Mark Frere
997 Posted 09/11/2013 at 17:36:16
4 players in particular are not doing the job for us this season - Osman, Mirallas, Pienaar and Barkley. They have been the regular starting attacking players and their creative aspects have been well below par. Okay, we can forgive Barkley, he's learning and developing, and has shown brief glimpses of magic. But we need much more penetration from our more creative players.
Gareth Fieldstead
000 Posted 09/11/2013 at 17:33:51
Not sure about the frighteningly in-form Liverpool, they were outclassed last week at an injury-ravaged Arsenal and they played an abysmal Fulham at home. They are creating chances at the moment which is more than what we are doing.

Too many players out of form at the moment. Baines resembles Pienaar prior to his move to Spurs and Lukaku is Brett Angel in disguise. Mirallas has been rank all season and McCarthy would happily just sit in front of the back four but we already have Barry for that.

We are missing Fellaini more than I thought we would. Hopefully Roberto will have plenty to spend in January because we could do with about 3 players.

Denis Richardson
001 Posted 09/11/2013 at 17:36:15
Nick 978 - as you mention that IS a little harsh. RM has obviously done more than just bring in Lukaku on loan. Our entire centre mid also happens to be new and both Barry and McCarthy are better than what was previously there.

Anyway, back to the game, performance was shit and the manager and players need to accept this is not good enough. I hope it was just a bad day at the office but then I think of the first hour against spurs as well....

January cannot come soon enough at this point in time. One thing is clear though, RM needs to get Barkley back into the starting XI as he currently offers a shit load more than the three that started today. Still cannot understand why we started with the same team as last week when we were so bad for the first hour.

Chris Butler
004 Posted 09/11/2013 at 17:41:52
In the summer there was a lot of talk about how Moyes was quite happy to accept a point in certain games and how Martinez would be different and go for the 3 points. However, in many ways, he's worse: McCarthy being one yellow away from a suspension should've been a good enough excuse to go with an attacking line-up.

Why didn't he put Jelavic up front, just go 4-4-2 and go for it rather than just keeping possession? There was no urgency in either the Palace or the Spurs game to get the 3 points. Even Moyes put an extra striker on in games like Spurs and Palace towards the end.

Phil Walling
006 Posted 09/11/2013 at 17:41:54
With over 70% possession, Robbie will be very pleased with the team's performance. After all , full-back bombing down the wing and crossing is the most outdated tactic in the game and on 50% of occasions ends in a header by the opposition. Much better to keep possession and use up five minutes of an away game 'getting back to front'.

Delo has made his name in youth team football walking the ball into the net and how much more aesthetic this is that merely shooting once inside the area.

At last I am beginning to understand what our new style is all about. Actually winning matches has become incidental !

Phil Roberts
007 Posted 09/11/2013 at 17:51:20
I have to admit I was wrong. I was really worried when RM arrived given his previous club were known for awful defending and that is what really got them relegated.

But so far he seems to have really solved the problems of OFM in keeping it tight at the back. We now have 6 clean sheets this season, when we only did 10 in the whole of last season. In the same 10 fixtures (not first 10 games, equivalent fixtures) from last year we had conceded 15 goals and this season is only 10. Admittedly we did score 20 goals in the same fixtures last year but we have one more point than last year.

All we need to do now is find a way of sneaking that goal to turn these 0-0s into 1-0s and we are looking good.

Jamie Barlow
008 Posted 09/11/2013 at 17:59:39
KITAP1 Phil?
Nick Entwistle
009 Posted 09/11/2013 at 18:01:26
We go to Palace and you're happy with a clean sheet Phil?
Phil Roberts
010 Posted 09/11/2013 at 18:05:06
Given our inability to score in half of our games, it is a good job RM has sorted out not conceding as easily as OFM, otherwise we would be in deep mess.
Mark Frere
017 Posted 09/11/2013 at 18:06:20
Phil, we hardly looked water tight at the back today, they had a number of chances first half and failed to take them.

We struggled to even create a chance against a side that leak goals for fun. Palace's first clean sheet of the season.

Steve Brown
020 Posted 09/11/2013 at 18:16:00
The tactic of retaining possession in midfield is right, but the speed of our build-up has to improve in the last third of the pitch. As does our willingness to shoot when an opportunity is there.

At the moment, reprocessing of the ball is becoming an excuse for players who don't want to take any responsibility.

Kevin Tully
023 Posted 09/11/2013 at 18:18:32
A derby win and all will be right in the world.

Just to make my fellow Blues feel a little better, we are only 3 points off second place as the table stands, and the current Champions will go level on points with us if they beat Arsenal.

1 loss in his first 11 games is not too shabby.

We can only get better!

John Zapa
028 Posted 09/11/2013 at 17:55:52
Anyone who know Roberto from his previous clubs will know that he is as stubborn as they come. Should have played with 2 strikers, should have started with different players, should have changed tactics at some point, should have played to win, should have.......
Steve Brown
030 Posted 09/11/2013 at 18:28:37
Kevin, we have 5-6 players seriously off form - Osman, Miralles, Pienaar, Baines, Barkley. Sometimes the manager needs to recognise this and adjust his tactics accordingly.

I would like us to play with more speed and directness in our approach play v Liverpool, as trying to mirror their style with so many of the team not at it will only end in one result.

Michael Kenrick
032 Posted 09/11/2013 at 18:31:53
Kevin, I'm concerned because we've missed a golden opportunity to really get in and mix it with the League pace setters. The annoying thing is we were capable of doing just that but we have seriously dropped the ball in the last two games.

And while we could have the same points as that Manc team if they beat Arsenal tomorrow, we won't be level with them — we shall be below them because they will have a better goal difference. That would really piss me off... but it would only confirm the nature of the opportunity that Martinez has squandered here.

Unfortunately, we can get worse, and it wouldn't have taken much for us to have lost the last two matches, the way we ended up playing.

Kevin Tully
037 Posted 09/11/2013 at 18:38:10
Agree lads, but if we can manage to beat those that shall not be named, we can all forget about the last couple of games.

It's always a big game, but they will be talking about winning the league right now, and if we beat them, we will have the same amount of points.

Time for Roberto and the players to put things right.

Peter Thistle
039 Posted 09/11/2013 at 18:32:19
Another weekend ruined, we're more toothless than Shane McGowan.
Brent Stephens
043 Posted 09/11/2013 at 18:45:19
Kevin, beating RS (and I just don't see it happening) would not erase the memory of today nor some of the other dire stuff we've played. And I would hope Roberto would not forget that either, as it would just mask a systemic problem.
Kevin Rowlands
046 Posted 09/11/2013 at 18:46:34
Although we kept a clean sheet the worrying part is they could/should have scored at least three, if Sturridge and the rat are given similar opportunities they will bury us. Its also no coincidence that we have also played our best football this season with Barkley starting, after last weeks horrendous 1st half I couldn't believe Martinez started the same eleven, hopefully that won't be the case in 2 weeks.
David Flanagan
048 Posted 09/11/2013 at 18:47:49
I really can't understand the way we approach games. Palace got 11 men behind the ball quickly and with our pedestrian sideways passing it made it easy for them. Plan A isn't working at all but Martinez seems too stubborn to change things.

Have we had two strikers on the pitch at any one time? I'm personally pissed off with our style of play... pass, pass, pass... no creativity; no chances. What's happened to our full-backs bombing on, working the opposition???

On chances, they should have won... one shot on target last week and two today... Take out 45 minutes against Newcastle and we've been ordinary at best.

Paul Smith
049 Posted 09/11/2013 at 18:52:18
I thought we were really poor today, following on from the first half against Spurs last week. The game was played at walking pace – what was Jags doing? Some of his balls are shocking.

Maybe it's just a blip and we're all getting carried away, but the warning signs are there. Like I've said before, when some of your best players are loanees, it must be disheartening.

Colin Glassar
051 Posted 09/11/2013 at 19:08:41
I know it's impossible but going on performances over the last couple of games I'd drop at least seven players for the derby. Only Howard, Barry and McCarthy came out of this game with any credibility left. Even Lukaku looks like he's forgotten to turn a player or bully a defender (not really blaming him). The defence, as a unit, Ossie, Pienaar, Mirallas have been awful lately.
Craig Fletcher
065 Posted 09/11/2013 at 19:38:16
Unfortunately, this season it looks like there is a defined "top eight" and unless we do start picking up wins against these sides, eighth may be what we are going to have to settle for.

So yes, the next four league games will be crucial if we are seriously entertaining European ambitions.

Jeff Beaumont
067 Posted 09/11/2013 at 19:43:04
Prediction - Baines will not be going anywhere.Why? - any prospective buyers watching his performances lately won't pay 15 pounds for him let alone 15 million!
Mark Tanton
070 Posted 09/11/2013 at 19:55:37
I worry about us, I really do. Some teams start the season collecting too few points, but playing well and eventually they get it right. We're the other way around - we've collected the points but we're just not playing well. We're going to get caught out, big style, and probably in the derby.

Too many players are massively underperforming, and Martinez's loyalty to Osman defies all football logic.

Jamie Crowley
074 Posted 09/11/2013 at 19:43:37
The pace of play was appallingly slow. And so many wayward passes!

I can not for the life of me remember McCarthy playing a ball forward. I realize Osman, Baines and Mirallas were awful, but I was completely unimpressed with McCarthy. Never played a forward ball. Sideways, back, sideways, sideways... on and on it went. I think part of our incredibly slow build up, a major part of it, was down to McCarthy.

I realize many have been impressed with him "doing a job", but he was simply horrible today in my opinion.

Looked like Rodwell. Everything safe and "east-west" (sorry for the Americanism). No penetrating passes at all. He's got to step it up.

Jamie Crowley
076 Posted 09/11/2013 at 20:10:45
One quick positive note - can I please say (and I will) how fantastic are the English at a moment of silence?

Your honor of your veterans is truly inspiring. You could hear a pin drop.

A moment's silence truly typifies English class. It's beautiful to watch; glorious reverent silence.

It's one of the most beautiful things I've seen in sport. It's just awe-inspiring.

Craig Fletcher
077 Posted 09/11/2013 at 20:14:12
Baines' performance was mystifying, at best.

It'll be interesting to see how he performs;

1) For England over the international break, and
2) For us at Old Trafford at the end of the month.

Andy Mack
082 Posted 09/11/2013 at 20:18:42
Lucky again, to not be licking wounds tonight, as last week to get away without a defeat. If that was 2-0 to Palace, I couldn't have argued. If only possession earned you bonus points. It doesn't – but cracking off the odd on target shot just might, but that doesn't seem to be an option – for the first time since he came into the side Baines is definitely elsewhere, thanks Media and Moyes, where do we go?

Felli leaving is having a big impact – not just breaking up and moving it forward; McCarthy and Barry can do that, and occasionally do, but the two of them are no attacking threat whatsoever. Our corners now may as well be goalkicks to the opponents: no threat. Shooting from range, wild at best. Undefeated but nowhere near good enough to stay in the top six as it stands.

Most of the team had stinkers today, which must mean something backroom.

Positives? Um.... Howard's weird beard seems to have made him a more solid keeper and we're bossing the possession stats.

Mark Tanton
084 Posted 09/11/2013 at 20:38:38
Anyone know why Distin had a set-to with one of our travelling supporters after the final whistle?
Mark Palmer
089 Posted 09/11/2013 at 20:38:58
McCarthy and Barry were, as others have said pretty good today. Palace were terrible so the fact we didn't win (and we nearly lost) just isn't good enough. On that form we'll get hammered by a decent side.

Osman, Baines, Mirallas and Barkley were toothless and at times terrible. Deulofeu needs a serious talking to as his attitude stinks.

Anyone know why Distin went to speak to some fans after the game? He looked very serious.

Mark Tanton
092 Posted 09/11/2013 at 20:53:50
I think with Distin it was possibly a racial abuse thing. The Telegraph asked him about it post match and he said "It was one individual, he knows who he is and it's between us".
John Boon
093 Posted 09/11/2013 at 20:57:12
We have "clever" players, but lack speed and a far more direct approach. Lately I just don't feel that we will ever score. Most of our midfielders only seem to want to pass sideways. Still not really impressed by McCarthy.
Eugene Ruane
099 Posted 09/11/2013 at 21:09:32
Mark (092) in his twittering, he doesn't suggest anything racist.

From what he's saying sounds like frustration on his part and the part of the away support.

Hopefully that's all it was.


Roman Sidey
100 Posted 09/11/2013 at 20:59:17
Michael, the opportunity squandered is also made worse when you take Chelsea's draw into account - we could have been a point above them for the international break, knowing that a win in the derby would put us above the RS. To some it sounds petty to be aiming to be above certain teams, but when you know your result will directly put you above your opponent, it should life the performance.

Peter Thistle, and at least Shane lost his teeth fighting. We seem to have just pulled ours out and thrown them away.

Phil Roberts
102 Posted 09/11/2013 at 21:09:21
Yes I know it is pass pass pass, but this is far better than hoof

Or at least that is what everyone was saying 6 weeks ago. Why are we such a fickle bunch? The football is far better than the dross served up for the last 10 seasons and 5 failures to score and 6 clean sheets and we are all moaning.

We are not conceding, we are dominating possession and we are not getting beat. What more?

Craig Fletcher
110 Posted 09/11/2013 at 21:21:13
Phil (102), you just said it mate; that's part of the reason for the moaning. Actually I think it's four failures to score out of eleven in the league this year, not five, but nonetheless not scoring in a third of our games is concerning.

Possession is great, absolutely, but it's a statistic only for the trainspotters if there is no end product.

On the positive side though, yes, we are not conceding - thanks in large part to TH, who has consistently been the best player in the squad these past three games.

Dick Fearon
112 Posted 09/11/2013 at 21:25:47
It takes ages for the ball to reach the final third, by time it does get there our strikers are manned up.

My thoughts on the derby can wait for now — except to say our lot will need to improve by 200%.

Phil Friedman
144 Posted 09/11/2013 at 23:39:03
We are not going anywhere until we find someone who can slip a pass thru to Lukaku on the move. Watch the replay, as I did...how many times was he screaming for the ball while in a good position? And yet the ball never comes in. Osman and, yes, Barkley can't do it from central mid; Miralles, Coleman, Delo, Pienaar and, sadly, even Baines can't do it from the wings. (Baines's passing has been disasterously below his expected level.) Hopefully RM can find someone in January who can; otherwise we're a very mid-table team.
Si Cooper
149 Posted 09/11/2013 at 23:34:53
To have a good season you need to pick up a few wins away from home. Doesn't sound like Palace put in an inspiring display and so this result can only be classed as very disappointing.

It is essential that the manager isn't satisfied by this result, even if he may appreciate some aspects of the performance. I am hoping for some criticism from RM, followed swiftly by some action to shake things up a bit.

Ian Tunstead
156 Posted 09/11/2013 at 23:05:28
Very disappointing game and very worrying with the derby so near. We have been terrible for the most part of the last few games.

People keep trying to brainwash the rest of us and have us believe that we are playing far better football than the football of the last 10 years. Seriously? Compare the last home game of last season against West Ham to the dross served up today. I think the last two performances are as bad as I can remember.

Phil Roberts (#102) – when did it become fact that "pass pass pass" is better than "hoof"? And since when have we relied on hoofing it anyway? I seem to remember Everton purposely dropping long ball passes into Felliani's chest to great effect when the passing game wasn't working. Both methods can be equally effective but if one method isn't working surely it makes sense to mix it up and try something different, especially if you have the personnel to utilize it when having an asset like Lukaku?

I thought football was about winning games by putting the ball in the net not seeing who could pass it around the most and have the superior possession at the end of the game. What's the good in Barry, Jags and Distin passing it around to each other to look nice and tidy when you have a beast in Lukaku being wasted and being starved of the ball? Get the ball to Lukaku as quickly as possible as far up the pitch as possible and you will have far better chance of winning than letting the defenders pass the ball in pretty patterns wasting vital seconds that we need to win the game.

Harold Matthews
157 Posted 10/11/2013 at 00:21:34
We need to speed things up all round. The slow motion system is killing us. Tigers don't eat grass.
Patrick Murphy
158 Posted 10/11/2013 at 00:44:07
How very true Harold, watching today in the second-half, McCarthy had the ball with tons of space he looked up and nobody was moving for him and there were five players in front of him, how on earth can he deliver a pass forward if nobody shows for it?
Ross Kerry
160 Posted 10/11/2013 at 01:08:29
Another point in the bag, 3 points off 2nd place.
Roberto, sort it out lad.
Mick Davies
164 Posted 10/11/2013 at 01:22:38
Just because we got a point against a side fighting for their lives, it's not a disaster.

I agree, some of our players are not doing enough and I'm worried that RM is another Moyes concerning the utter shite Osman but to say we miss Fellaini!!! Ask any Man Utd fan and they'd happily drive him back here.

As for dropping 3 or 4 players, who's going to replace them, Heitinga and Hibbert? We don't have enough replacements and the injuries have decimated our club, unlike the sugar fed City and Chelski squads.

As for Mirallas, apparently he headed straight down the tunnel after being subbed, anyone know what that was about?

Christopher Kelly
167 Posted 10/11/2013 at 01:10:54
Phil Friedman - post of the lot so far. I sadly agree with you. Barkley will in time. He just is that hair too slow. "Osman and the Mediocres" (it's like a bad band you'd hear on American Bandstand) have no clue and will never improve or get it at this point... RM will get it. He's been stuck with a bad team on paper.

The loans, Barkley and Stones have been unearthed by him. This is not a finished product by any means. The loans came here because of HIM. You think Barca would trust Moyes with their young starlets?? Lololollo give the man a little credit and let's see how we're standing after this tough run coming up...

Ian Tunstead
169 Posted 10/11/2013 at 02:56:24
Christopher, maybe Barca trust Martinez because he speaks the same language as del boy so it would be easier for him to settle in, maybe its because of the reason given which was because we have a small squad and so he has a better chance of getting a game but still at a decent top end of the table team. Either way so what if Barca trust him, Del boy is just taking up a place on our bench for one of our own youngsters who we should be giving the experience to.

As for the loans coming here because of him, did it have nothing to do with the reports today that the baggies and Chelsea fell out over Chelsea taking one of their more promising youngsters and Fulham not quite having the money to bring him in after spending on Darren Bent even though they had first refusal, did it have nothing to do with Mirallas who has the same agent as Lukaku and convinced him to come to Everton while on international duty?

Also I'm sure it was Moyes who unearthed Barkley and Stones. It's funny, there were fans on here saying we had a brilliant team on paper but Moyes wasn't getting the best out of them and now you are saying "He's been stuck with a bad team on paper." Nothing to do with Martinez not getting the best out of the players and still making the same odd decisions as Moyes playing the likes of Osman?

Conn Prosser
180 Posted 10/11/2013 at 04:50:00
This is all Martinez' hands. It's not a disater keeping a clean sheet away from home, but it is very disappointing not taking points when they were there for the taking. Same as last week vs Spurs.

Surely Martinez can see what is happening and surely he has a solution, just up his sleeve. Maybe he has a flick through toffeeweb and thinks, hmm bieno pointo, osman is shite.

For the record I do not fear the rs. We'll raise our game and batter them. I encourage everyone to echo my sentiment. No more fear please, that shit is horribly infectious- if everyone thinks it, the players feel it, the manager feels it. Sin miedo I believe is the watchword.

Bob Parrington
181 Posted 10/11/2013 at 07:37:30
I know a lot of you had another go at Osman but, frankly, he put in a better shift than both Peinaar and Mirallas and the subs (I thought correct 'IN') should have replaces P and M.

Lukaku looks better with Barkley on the pitch. There are better "electrics" between them. Why we don't give Delboy a start confuses me.

Defensively (particularly vs crosse for headers) we looked crap and they should have scored at least twice in the first half.

So frustratingly modern Everton!!

David Crewe
187 Posted 10/11/2013 at 08:28:00
I didn't go yesterday - season ticket holder living in london. I said to my lad two weeks ago that palace would fight like dogs and it will probably be a dour 0-0.

Lots of frustration and negativity on the message boards as usual after a poor result. I'm sure their was plenty of the same from our travelling hoards and no doubt one or two upset some of the players.

Our house was very disappointed with the result but we are delighted with the way the season is going.

We have a new manager who wants to play exciting football and is prepared to change things early in a game. He had little or no time to prepare for the transfer window and did a great job in very difficult circumstances.

We as passionate supporters can't do much about what happens in the club, much as we would all like to change things, we just have to enjoy or endure the ride.

The one thing we can do to make a bit of difference though is be positive and back the side...our fans can be the best in the premier league by a mile and the atmosphere does affect the players...no doubt...ask any of them or any player at another club.

There are three possible results at every game and of those we've only had one L this season in 11 games. We've had three clean sheets in a row and are only three points from second in the table and are playing that team next.

At the start of the season I think we would all have said ' yes I 'll take that'.

I'm there in two weeks and I think we'll win with the Old Lady rocking.


Paul Ferry
189 Posted 10/11/2013 at 08:59:39
nice Jamie - 76.
Andy Hegan
196 Posted 10/11/2013 at 09:45:37
Everton in lack of creativity shocker!
Tim Locke
201 Posted 10/11/2013 at 09:40:57
So what did it take???? 11 games and out come all the I could manage better with my eyes closed comments.

Don't get me wrong Place should be 3 points, but it was not and it's not the end of the world, start seeing the big picture.

We have had our second best start in the prem. We have a side which has lost 1 game, no team has a better record. We remain unbeaten at home for 18 months. There is no pleasing some fans, if you are not happy then you should pack your bags and form a new club with Tottenham fans, all sit and moan together. I tell you we could win the league and loss just one game and there would still be fans who would complain we didn't get something.

And those having a go at Marallis would do well to look at some stats http://espnfc.com/stats/assists/_/league/eng.1/barclays-premier-league?cc=5739

Colin Wordsworth
210 Posted 10/11/2013 at 10:48:11
Pienaar has returned for 2 and a bit games. His first touch was great against Hull.....he scored!......other than that piece of magic our play has suffered and we are more tippy tappy than ever in the final third! Is it a coincidence that since his re-introduction coupled with Barkley having to drop out of the team to accommodate Osman that Lukaku has suffered?....and we have not created real chances.
Ian Bennett
212 Posted 10/11/2013 at 10:57:58
It will be interesting who he goes with in the derby. Over the hill Osman and Pienaar, and a misfiring Mirallas, or put your faith in youth and pace with Barkley and the Barca kid. I think if the side contains the old guard we lose.

Beating Liverpool will be about having more pace in the side. If we try and match up against them, the front two will blow us away.

Joe Edwards
218 Posted 10/11/2013 at 11:11:49
Well we are a team in transition and bob is still learning about his squad however it must be as clear as crystal that Osman has seen better days and that Pienaar is completely out of sorts. Is it now time for Barkley to replace Osman or to give the team an opportunity to play with 2 strikers? If nothing else the team that started against spurs and yesterday against palace is a dead duck so time to get the mixing bowl out again Bob and try something new
Paul Graney
242 Posted 10/11/2013 at 11:54:44
Is the honeymoon period over and is it coincidence that the new style of play which we are playing has resulted in certain players being woefully out of sorts? I think we are in a false position in the table as, for the most part of the season, we have been shocking: no pace, no creativity, too many sideways and backward passes, and at the moment we seem to have lost the ability to even take a corner.

Against a Palace team who have lost all but one of their league games this season, I thought the team selection was far too negative and felt for Lukaku who, even though was poor, was far too isolated and couldn't get into the game. Needs to be sorted for the derby because, if not, it could be embarrassing.

Lee Simpson
245 Posted 10/11/2013 at 12:25:36
Deulofeu and Barkley were just as bad as Osman and Mirallas. Pienaar was even worse. On a positive note, Howard is as good as he has ever been and I think we would have lost that game last season.
David Crewe
255 Posted 10/11/2013 at 13:18:48
Well said . Tim locke. 201.
Tony J Williams
258 Posted 10/11/2013 at 13:34:31
Ian, I would suggest that a Derby is a game to blood in the Barca lad. Bring him on towards the end when everyone is knackered.
Chris Butler
259 Posted 10/11/2013 at 13:22:08
I believe the reason why certain players are underperforming is our tactics. If you look at some the worst culprits yesterday Baines, Pienaar, Coleman and Mirallas, they all played better under Moyes than Martinez particularly Coleman. Last year Seamus Coleman towards the end was excellent he used the cross whenever he got the chance same with Baines and Pienaar. Now almost every time they get to a crossing position they just pass backwards. If you look at how many times we go into crossing positions and just passing the ball backwards, you have to wonder whether they were told not to cross and simply keep possession. I believe the role of McCarthy yesterday didn't help either every time Mirallas, Coleman and Deulofou got into crossing positions they passed it to McCarthy. I personally think McCarthy is the type of player who will do well in the Derby, but I don't believe playing him against teams like Palace is a good idea. Martinez has done very well so far however in my opinion we were very lucky to come away with a point yesterday and last Sunday against Spurs. I'm not confident that we'll beat Liverpool however I'm more confident going into the game with Martinez as Manager than Moyes.
Colin Glassar
260 Posted 10/11/2013 at 13:56:37
Chris Butler, I was going to post something similar but my view is that since some of these lads have become international regulars I.e. Baines, Coleman, Jags etc...their form has dipped for us. Overconfidence? Arrogance? Tiredness? I'm not sure but they don't look as hungry and focused as they used to be.
Brian Denton
263 Posted 10/11/2013 at 13:59:59
I can't understand why people eg Tim above (and it was repeated in the tv commentary yesterday) seem to think we are unbeaten at home for 18 months. Leaving aside the Wigan FA Cup game, Chelsea beat us 2-1 in the Premier League at Goodison last December. Late last December. So unless the definition of a month has changed since my day, the statement is simply not true.

Perhaps if I wish hard enough, it will not be 14 years since we last won at Anfield......

Brian Waring
264 Posted 10/11/2013 at 14:06:36
Chris, so the tactics are to blame for Baines's delivery being woeful of late?
James Marshall
266 Posted 10/11/2013 at 14:10:15
The thing that bothered me yesterday, was that we clearly had setup to play the ball wide to use Coleman, Baines, Mirallas & Pienaar. When they get within crossing range, they took forever to cross the damn ball. Stopping, waiting, turning back, and eventually crossing (badly) to players that were by that time, overrun by defenders.

It was a pointless ploy which simply failed over & over again.

Mirallas has zero end product, and doesn't track back at all. Pienaar coms inside all the time and cannot shoot at all. Baines crossing was dreadful, and Colemand barely did anything all game.

The only defence to all of this is that Palace defended in numbers, and had at least 9 men behind the ball at all times so that made them hard to break down. We failed to draw them out enough and just kept attacking them down the flanks - we played into their hands basically. We should have stood off them at times, drawn their defence up and then got behind them.

We didn't do that once, all game. If you're going to play wide all the time, then you have to draw the defence out, otherwise you're flogging a dead horse. I could not understand why Martinez didn't spot this obvious flaw in the way we played.

Colin Glassar
267 Posted 10/11/2013 at 14:16:20
Too many players have gone off the boil at the same time. It's up to Martinez to get them fired up for the derby, which I'm now dreading, and to make some hard choices. I'd give them one last chance to buck up their ideas and then start thinking the unimaginable.
Steve Brown
268 Posted 10/11/2013 at 14:13:33
It is not just Baines, Coleman, Pienaar, Mirallas who benefit from moving the ball forward more quickly, initiated by quick distribution by the keeper to the full-backs. Lukaku's game is all about getting beyond the last defender by early crosses and balls between the centre backs. Where we have done that (Newcastle, Villa), he has deliveredl; where the tempo has dropped, he is less effective.

For one or two, it might be a mix of a dip in form or a drop in attitude. But equally, it could simply be that their motivation has dipped because the tactics we adopt do not suit their game. I get the fact that this will all take time, but do we really write off the opportunity to do something with this team this season?

Colin Glassar
270 Posted 10/11/2013 at 14:27:42
Steve, a few times we counterattacked quickly but then stopped and either passed sideways or backwards when there where acres of open space ahead. I doubt Martinez is telling them to do this, it's down to the players to make their own decisions during these moments.
Tahir Abdullah
271 Posted 10/11/2013 at 14:12:43
Christopher@167 and Phil@144 just about sums it up for me. Contrary to some of the comments on here about top four, we should not delude ourselves to think that such lofty status will be ours for the challenging this season. Nothing wrong with RM's philosophy in my view; we need to invest the Fellaini money at the end of the season (forget Jan as there are rarely any value buys to be had) in securing an up and coming midfield maestro (in addition to a proven goal scorer and of course Mr. Barry). Onwards and upwards we go. NSNO!
James Marshall
272 Posted 10/11/2013 at 14:33:23
Steve #268

You highlight my point further - Lukaku couldn't get behind their defence because they were so deep and there was no space behind them. This was because we failed to draw them out at any stage.

Kevin McCartney
273 Posted 10/11/2013 at 14:36:41
current results are making this hurt more, such a lost opportunity now!
Trevor Lynes
275 Posted 10/11/2013 at 14:40:37
Strange results are continuing today. Spurs lose at home to Newcastle and Man City a goal down against a depleted Sunderland team whose defence contains Bardsley, O'Shea and Wes Brown... City look really lethargic??
Andrew Ellams
276 Posted 10/11/2013 at 14:33:35
We were winning games and creating chances when Barkley and Naismith were in the team. Now they aren't and results and performances have dropped
Harold Matthews
289 Posted 10/11/2013 at 15:28:37
When we tore West Ham apart in the second half at Upton Park, our lad on the left wing was Oviedo.
Ross Edwards
292 Posted 10/11/2013 at 15:43:43
Can I just say about Palace, some slating them as being crap and so on, but they should have beaten Arsenal, they created a lot of chances, and they would have got a draw on the opening day against Spuds if it wasn't for Tottenham getting a dubious pen late on.

That doesn't forgive the performance, no way, but we always expected a tough game.

Kevin McCartney
295 Posted 10/11/2013 at 15:16:54
OMG! Sunderland 1-0 at home to Man City — now that really makes the result yesterday a major loss of 2 points, and last week for that matter.
Steve Pugh
298 Posted 10/11/2013 at 15:48:31
People on here have incredibly short memories. Calling for Osman to be dropped in favour of Barkley. Osman is Martinez' favourite etc etc.

Osman was dropped for Barkley, at first into the holding role until Barry arrived and then to the bench. But Barkley didn't do enough to convince the manager he was ready to start and was firstly subbed, Ossie came on to score one and make one, and then dropped to the bench.

As soon as Martinez thinks he is ready to start again then he will.

James Marshall
300 Posted 10/11/2013 at 16:01:32
But to put it another way, we're still 5th!
James Martin
303 Posted 10/11/2013 at 16:07:02
Everyone's falling over themselves to hand Liverpool a top 4 spot. It's not as if we're going to grab it is it? We need to derail them in the next match.
Andrew Clare
306 Posted 10/11/2013 at 16:03:14
There aren’t any easy games anymore. Southampton are doing well because they have an exceptional manager and the RS because they have one of the top five strikers in the world playing in their team.

In leagues where teams are evenly matched, most games are close. Look at Serie A today. Hardly a goal scored and lots of drawn games. There is a dearth of world class stikers pretty much like Baseball in the eighties when the pitchers were so good the game suffered.

All over Europe, clubs have worked on their defensive tactics over the years making it harder and harder for the strikers. Look at today’s results and Chelsea’s yesterday. Teams can totally dominate the play and still only draw or lose.

Steve Brown
307 Posted 10/11/2013 at 16:11:31
Yes bollocks to this introspection now, let 's get at them!
Simon Smith
358 Posted 10/11/2013 at 18:13:35
Looking at Sundays results it really was a case of what might have been as Arsenal Man city and the Spuds all dropped points.
Oh well here’s to the Derby game and hopefully to a much needed win to close the gap on the top 6
Harold Matthews
386 Posted 10/11/2013 at 18:41:22
The winning teams today fought like ferocious tigers all the way. We need to follow suit.
James Venamun
395 Posted 10/11/2013 at 19:20:24
Those on this site who predicted a close game were proved right; Palace were well organized and defended for their lives. You could see how much the result meant to them at the end, through the prism of Damian Delaney's clenched fist celebrations. We lacked the guile to break them down; we have to be considerably better against the RS.

That said, from where I was standing in Block S yesterday, this game was as much about the crowd as the forgettable football. It seemed to me there were at least 200 to 300 people standing in the asiles in the away corner, did they get in on counterfeit tickets or were they milling outside without tickets and allowed in to the stadium on Police orders? The stewards did nothing; it led me to wonder if Police ordered the club to allow admission as there was terrible congestion around the ground due to really bad transport delays leading to the late kick off. Either way, crowd safety was compromised in my view.

From what I could see and hear, our fans performed poorly on the day as well. The initial up-beat support seemed to subside at about 30 minutes and there were a lot of negative shouts at our own players, most notably Osman, Mirallas, and later Deulofeu. It's one of the reasons it's sometimes a bit of a chore at away games, there are some fans who just target individual players.

A win in the derby is now doubly important to get the positive juices flowing again. COYB

Ian Glassey
404 Posted 10/11/2013 at 19:29:32
To look on the bright side after 10 games, who would've expected us to be in front of City and Spurs? We have not played well in the last 3 games, but we are still in there (top 6). A big if, but if we beat the RedShite, then we are level with them. Still all to play for..
David Crewe
407 Posted 10/11/2013 at 20:05:43
The Palace result looks better as the weekend progresses. A point gained on Spurs and Man City.

A good home win in two weeks and it's all in the mix... even another draw wouldn't put us far off.

I'm loving this season in the Prem.

Chris Leyland
412 Posted 10/11/2013 at 20:34:19
David Crewe - the results today actually make the Palace result look worse not better! We had the chance to gain ground at the very top and a win yesterday would have seen us 3 points off the top spot. Wins against a bottom of the league, shite side who have lost 7 straight games are a must if we are to have any pretentions of challenging for Europe. Whilst we might win the prize for most sideways and backwards passes, unless and until we mix up the style as and when needed ten expect more dour 0-0 draws. 4 out of 11 so far to me shows what a lost opportunity we have had.
Bill Griffiths
415 Posted 10/11/2013 at 20:27:44
I can understand the comments made straight after the game finished as my first thoughts when the whistle went were "What a clueless bunch of shite, why do I continue to support a team like this?" — which are usually my first thoughts when we lose or drop points against teams we should supposedly easily dispose of.

I would also say that I had/have my doubts regarding RM but appreciate he will need time to make his mark if he is capable of doing the job successfully. I also expected us to probably be probably no higher than about 8th at this moment in time. I certainly didn't expect us to be in the top 6 within easy touching distance of the leaders.

We should all realise that there are no easy games in the Premier League, as this weekend's results have shown. Palace were unlucky in the main against Arsenal a couple of weeks ago and probably deserved a draw then.

As stated above I have doubts about RM but realise he has to be given a fair crack of the whip. If the Southampton fans had their way, their current manager would have been booted out a few weeks after replacing the popular Nigel Adkins. Do you think they would want to get rid of him now?

Julian Wait
445 Posted 10/11/2013 at 22:09:05
I can see why Barkley wouldn't start the derby; last thing we - or Barkley - need is Barkley lunging in to make a point, and getting sent off, in the first 15 minutes.

Me, I would sub Osman and start Oviedo, move Pienaar inside. Maybe even start Naismith on the right instead of Mirallas. Starting Oviedo and Naismith could be seen as defensive / work rate driven and not trying to go out and win the game, but if it frees up Baines and Coleman more, maybe it's the way to go. But neither will start most likely, despite the need for change - and an element of surprise being somewhat obvious. Then we'd have Barkley, Mirallas, Deulofeu (Osman, Jelavic) on the bench.

Hopwever ... we all know that Osman is going to start the derby game a long with what otherwise Martinez will see as his "best 11" i.e. Pienaar, Mirallas etc. Not saying I want Osman to start, but that's the reality unless he gets injured in training.

Tim Locke
456 Posted 10/11/2013 at 22:35:26
All teams lose or draw games they should win on paper, just a fact of football. Let's not forget: Arsenal lost to Aston Villa at home, and today Arsenal lose to a team that West Brom can turn over; Liverpool lost to Saints, Sunderland lost to CP and then went onto beat Newcastle Utd and Man City, and we beat Cheleaa, but lost to Man City who lost to Cardiff. The fact you are disappointed is good, it shows you have expectations, which means RM must be doing a good job.

The next four games are key: come out of them with 8 points plus and we are doing well.

Mick Davies
476 Posted 11/11/2013 at 00:19:10
David Moyes left of his own accord, and although this will disappoint a lot of you, he's not coming back any time soon. If some of the above posts were to be believed, we played sexy attractive positive football under Moyes/Round and it was very successful.

Well, I don't wear rose-tinted specs so if someone here could provide proof of all the trophies we won in the last 11 years, I'll believe in him too. Until then I'll get behind the EVERTON manager and not the Man Utd version. Roll on the derby and a red card for Sewer rat Suarez, hat-trick for Lukaku.

Kevin O'Regan
514 Posted 11/11/2013 at 08:21:53
Peanuts is very very poor and must be dropped - Lukaku looks to have lost his motivation and is just frustrated, Baines needs to be given a break, Oviedo in for a couple. In fact many of them look tired and unmotivated - I'd let Big Dunc. have a go at them for a few days and scare the daylights out of them - or at least wake them up. Still adapting yes, but it's not good enough. Captain Jags, your time has come to start shouting.

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