Having Baines back does add some options for us because I think Oviedo is a more than competent option in wide midfield (left or right). In particular, I think he and Baines could provide a very interesting combo on the left.

Keep him fresh and unleash him for the last 30 minutes (if necessary) whilst limiting the chances he will be unavailable for the Southampton game; possibly a very sensible option. The likes of Cattermole are likely to target him for some rough treatment as well.

Gareth Barry is in a similarly precarious position, but probably experienced and mature enough to not rise to any provocation and to reserve the risky challenges for when they are actually needed.

Too much turkey, methinks?

That's all Osman's fault!!!!!!!!! Cant really blame Howard
it should not have even been on the fucking pitch from the start.

That's a serious Christmas downer!

Also, putting voice to something that has been in my thoughts for a while is that Lukaku is perhaps "not all that his first touch was on many occasions woeful.

Had the sending off not occurred, we would be discussing a win rather than a defeat. Osman shouldn't have played really, but you can't blame Martinez, rotation was needed, but really, what a disaster on Osman's part though.

No Howard, and no Barry for the Southampton game, it's going to be tough but we can pull through.

COYB! IMWT!

We have had quite a bit of this recently and how upcoming games are piss easy, it's just taunting the gods.

Anyway let the apocalypse begin I'm going out.

It happens to all sides. Got to bounce back straight away.

Ozzie must have got pissed on Xmas not knowing he was starting.

It had to come - but against the bottom team at Goodison? Howard and Osman did not cover themselves in glory with that little episode.

Still, we showed a lot of heart and fight. That's a small consolation.

We will just need to go on another run as we are still more consistent than most of those teams around and above us.

Mannone made some world class saves today, otherwise we would have won!!

Some discouraging aspects; Mirallas ineffectual, as he often is (though reports say he's ill?) and I am beginning to think Mourinho has a better handle on Lukaku than anyone- Diakite had him well under control and right now, Romelu is bringing precious little to the team.

The encouraging aspects were the fact we dominated a game against 11 in the second half and Barkley again looked the part, as did Oviedo.

An utter calamity for their goal with both of them culpable; Osman managed to get blown off the ball even though there was no-one there, while Howard should never have passed to him and having been so dumb as to have done so, should have done made 100% he wasn't sent off, whatever happened.

Let's look at the positives, we were the far better side, kept playing football, no route one stuff. Robles looked at home so no great loss with Howard.

We need a couple of reinforcements in the window for sure, I would love to see a winger who can cross the ball and pick out his man. Of course it is Everton and well it just had to happen, the bottom team winning, the keeper having a blinder. Ahh fuck it... bring on The Saints and lets have a few fresh faces out there on Sunday.

Can't fault the manager as you can't do anything about individual mistakes like that.

Not too fussed about Howard missing the next game, Barry though is a blow.

Roberto needs to pick this team up as the next game is only 3 days away. Very poor result but can make amends with a win on Sunday.

Just can't take anything for granted with Everton!

KM should not have come off, we should have responded by playing 3 at the back. Distin should have come off and Barry or McCarthy should have dropped a bit deeper to provide cover.

Nobody would watched that would have guessed it was 10 against 11 men - that's how shit they were, and we still did not salvage a point there goes our 100% Goodison record, and to who, a bunch of amateurs managed by a Lee Evans look-a-like (and act-a-like)

Keep on winning and Mr Kenwright would carry on carrying on. New faces are required in January to back the lads up.

Any hope Osman has of the World Cup he killed stone dead today. Absolutely wretched afternoon for him. Martinez has to shoulder the blame partly for me though. Barkley starts in place of Osman as he should have done and we would not have lost today. Hopefully a lesson learned.

I thought we still outplayed Sunderland and a complete fuck up lost us this. Awful from Howard and Osman.

Perhaps everybody has been getting a little carried away and expecting us to pick up wins every time we take to the pitch, but the game has and never has worked like that. The positive thing about today was the attitude of the ten men giving it a good go, that is a priceless asset and bodes well for the rest of the season.

We are still a little way short of the required quality in the squad to believe that top 4 is a probability, it is still possible of course but it has been made a lot more difficult by today's events.

I have banged on for years about the Crapness of Osman and I have been right all along. Todays calamity has been waiting to happen all season. Every time Osman gets the ball my heart is in my mouth. Today must of killed off any notion that Osman is Premier League quality. Play our best team at all times and adjust when needed.Its not as though we are in Europe and the League cup is it?l. We should of still won by the way Sunderland are a shocking side.Hope they go down the Jammy Twats.

Ross #919, if Osman shouldn't have played and the manager picked him, how come it's not the manager's fault Osman was on the pitch?

We played pretty good in the second half but it's a very tough call for any team with only 10. We don't have a Suares or Silva or Walcott who can turn a gamewith a quick dribble and shot. That's all we needed, we had all the good possession. Take it on the chin, a bad accident happened to us today ..... it's only one game and we can make it up.

People blaming Howard are way off. What could he do? He barely touched their player and the red card was extremely harsh considering there wasn't any contact. A yellow card would have still been harsh but I can see why the ref gave it in the heat of the moment.

Osman on the other hand.... No words. Professional players shouldn't be doing that. Titus Bramble would have been proud with that one

It's a shame to lose out 100% home record and two of our best players for the next game, but there are always going to be days like this. I'm sure Martinez will rally the troops and we will see an improved performance against Southampton.

The only thing to show up in this game is Evertons need for a young creative midfielder that has been needed from the start of the season.

As it was going to be difficult to go the rest of the season without loosing, as supporters we need to get behind the team in the next game.As for January the importance of bringing in players is now evident with the suspentions from today.

In all seriousness it was a bad and slightly unfortunate dat at the office. Even with ten men we could well have won.

We move on.

This season is to keep playing to a standard so we qualify for Europe.

"It's fucking bullshit the teams we have dropped point to this season"

"We can now relax, and forget Championss League qualification"

What a load of over the top, raging retarded rhino bollocks. A defeat was bound to happen sooner rather than later. One loss and the white flag wavers are clambering on top of each other to go cower in the corner.

The team has just been on the longest unbeaten run in the premier league this season and there is absolutely no reason why they can not go on and do exactly the same thing once again. It's not as if it was a disastrous display today. That game was lost solely due to an individual cock up of calamitous proportions by Osman showing similar sure-footedness to the shit-brained Scarecrow from the Wizard of Oz.

Those things happen during a season. Defeats happen. The top teams don't respond by bawling their eyes out like the baggy arsed, kiddie fiddler looking 'cowardly lion' after he was bitch slapped by a little girl in a gingham dress and glittery hooker shoes. They don't dwell on it or get disheartened by it. They simply dust themselves down and set about starting another unbeaten run in the next game.

Shit happens.Teams around us will drop points between now and the end of the season. No need to get a titty lip on about it and mince about like a tantrum throwing Elton John after David Furnish mistook his favourite anal douche for a fucking turkey baster. Season over? Way to blow things out of all proportion because of one slight setback.

I need Doddy to cheer me up - he'd have an explanation for this mess!

RS winning 1-0.

Denying an obvious goal-scoring opportunity by an offence punishable by a free kick or penalty kick

3 match ban fis for

Serious foul play
Violent conduct
Spitting at an opponent

Which I don't think would apply in this case?

It's January or bust really.

Sorry but I think that's rubbish. We were playing the bottom side and were unbeaten at home all year. There is no expectation on us from the media who all think we don't deserve to be where we are. Surely a recipe for confidence not pressure?

If I was a cynic I'd be saying that complacency was the issue. At home to the bottom side and we didn't even start the game well. Mirallas goes off for a long time. They speculated on Radio Merseyside that this might be due to an upset stomach. Errr....really? Too many sprouts? How many times does that happen to a professional?

Thankfully I'm not that much of a cynic.
I think it was due to a one-off cock-up - a perfect storm given that it was the keeper implicated and then sent off so early in the game.
Mind you, I posted pre-match that the team should be unchanged. (Well, we're all armchair managers, aren't we?)
Was surprised Barkley didn't start as I think Ossie's OK for the last 20 mins when we're 1-0 up.

(I remember the all-conquering 1984 side losing at home to lowly Grimsby in the League Cup. And let's not mention Carlisle United's top flight record against us!)

I like RM's positive response on post match interview.
Hopefully we'll see a belting response against Southampton.

Bottom line - not the Happy Blue Christmas we were hoping for.
Citeh can potentially bring a bit of joy, though (at least at the time of writing).

We could really do with a couple of players in January to give us options. Jelavic was the only available sub to bring on to try and get a goal and that is not good enough for a side trying to be top 4

Unfortunate confluence of events today and a really disappointing loss. In one game. We played over an hour with ten men, still spent most of the second half battering them, their 'keeper was MoM, and an individual mistake cost us our goal.

I'm glad that Martinez says that he accepts that mistakes will happen with our new style of play, because there's precious few on here that seem to share that opinion.

Anyway, it gives us a chance to see what Robles can do, he did well against City in the FA Cup.

I've been thinking along the same lines lately.

I'm gutted as I thought we had a sneaky chance of going top of the table at some point in the next week or two.

But to start casting aspersions and looking to blame people here there and everywhere, and to turn against any of the guys who've been outstanding this season and put us in this fantastic position is to show yourself up as a pretty weak 'supporter'. The truest of blues will take this bad at the office on the chin and focus on willing a strong reaction from the players. We've got another home game and opportunity for three points coming up quickly. A football season isn't about not losing, it isn't about not having bad days, its about reacting positively to them and driving forward. That's what we need to do now, and a moaning, bitching attitude isn't part of how that happens.

One final gripe about the laws of the game. If you concede a penalty you haven't denied a clear goalscoring opportunity, merely delayed it, as they still have one from the penalty spot, therefore you shouldn't be sent off.

We threw everything at them 2nd half, just wasn't to be..

Heads up guys we're not out of this yet.. I do feel we need decent cover though. Peanuts needs a rest, I was hoping to see Baines and Oviedo down the left today and Lukaku looks a yard short now.. A few lazy passes all round due to fatigue maybe.

I suspect Martinez knows this and is ready.

After the goal they parked the bus which was to be expected, as we would have done in their circumstances. Southampton will be more open, they'll have a go which will give us some space..

I think our response was encouraging. Previously they would have had all the possession with us having six defenders on and 10 behind the ball.

What he said.

IMHO, it's the response to the defeat that will define our season, and there's a lots of points to play for. As they say these days, hey ho onwards and upwards. Oh and to Paul Ferry, piss off and don't come back!

in your list of OTT quotes You lumped my "It's fucking bullshit the teams we have dropped point to this season"
With the likes of "season over" sort of quotes, that's a bit harsh - because unlike the others, mine is pretty accurate. And I stand by it. If you don't go to review the season results and see that the only team we deserved to lose to this season so far is city

The couple of wins (Fulham and Swansea in particular) were flattering and papered over some poor play. And, if you know your history you know for sure that Everton is going to come unstuck against teams in the middle of their worst ever runs! Has happened with stomach churning regularity ever since I can remember!

Martinez should pull together a highlights tape of all such games and play it to the team before this type of game as a reminder. You can't take any team for granted.

Let's hope this is the rocket they need and is just a blip.

A win against Soton and we're back in the frame.

COYBs

I'm totally behind the manager and what he's trying to do but he's become a little stars truck by the Barkley phenomena.

Get your best team out there and get the game won and dusted; what are we gaining by starting with Osman or Mirallas who are both shite, and leaving Barkley on the bench.

Plus, Bainsey will be back against Southampton and hopefully we will be back to winning ways. We need at least two new players in January as injuries, suspensions and loss of form will start to kick in now. IRIT.

David, I think people are more like "we're going to lose a game or two anyway" and voiced it far too negatively. It's a good season regardless and looking forward to our next game.

It was always the way in previous seasons that the manager would be blamed for the players performances and especially for them just being on the pitch e.g. Osman.

Why should it be any different now?

Michael (022), yea, as much as I hope we can win the title, taking the 1 game at a time mentality is best suited for us. Hopefully we can get back to our flowing football against Soton and march from there on.

Sunderland at home is the perfect game to let Ross recharge the batteries, the worst side in the division by some distance should be easily dispatched by that starting eleven.

Howard was not to blame for their goal, Osman failed to control a straightforward pass and because he's about as strong as cheap bog-roll was easily dispossessed.

Lukaku is one lazy lazy lumbering centre-forward when the play isn't suited tis strengths. I am slowly beginning to see why Chelsea are loaning him out. Great goalscorer when the team are providing him ammunition, useless at making things happen himself or taking a game by the scruff of the neck ala Drogba.

Anyone attaching any blame at Martinez's feet is an idiot. We were just plain unlucky today. Love his positivity at the end of the game too - no dwelling, lets move on.

Sunderland are crap. Hope they go down.

You kind of peg the reason why I included your quote in amongst the other over the top reactions, right here:

"go to review the season results and see that the only team we deserved to lose to this season so far is city"

Exactly...and up until today they were ...erm...the only team we HAD lost to. Now it's them and Sunderland.

Earlier you claimed that "it's fucking bullshit the teams we've dropped points to this season". Fact of the matter is we've only lost twice. All season. So what dropped points are you talking about? Draws against Norwich and the like in the first three games of the season when the players were finding their feet in a new system? The draw against the red shite? How do those draws (not defeats!) add up to 'fucking bullshit'?

No game in this league is a banker complete with a guarantee of 3 points. Going into games against teams lower in the table with the attitude that it'll be as easy as stealing fish from the Seal Boy with flippers for hands is asking for a fucking slap about the face with the same said fish.

We just didn't really have anything late in the second half to truly change that game, everything was just crossed into the box, its exactly why we knew that Deulofeu would be missed so much, we don't get anywhere near enough quality from our two wide players in my opinion. The stars of the season have been central midfielders such as Barry, Barkley, McCarthy, Pienaar shit more often that not, Mirallas shit most of the time. We need at least a striker and wide player next month. McGeady/Donovan and maybe one of Shane Long or Defoe on loan.

But for christs sake keep faith....we can and will be there at the end!

So the fans who are there on Sunday will really need to let this one go and get behind Ossie and the team for what is now a must-win game to keep pace with the other title / European contenders (there, I said the 't' word intentionally).

Saints at home will not be easy due to their manic pressing game, which we struggled with when Spurs employed similar tactics. Today was, I truly believe, one of those occasional freak results - move swiftly on and forget about it.

I hate all this talk of needing a rest. I am up at 6 a.m every morning for work and do a hell of a lot more than footballers and I am paid much much much less but do I get a rest??
By the way nobody should have a go at Martinez, a mistake today in dropping Ross but other than that he has been great, I love the guy but now I suspect is his first major test after losing our impregnable home record to a dour pile of crap in Sunderland. It will be interesting to see how we react on Sunday against a very tricky opponent with the loss of Barry and the already missing Deulofeu.

Dennis #027, surely we can blame this manager for making the same mistakes that the previous manager was blamed for?

Age and fitness is not the issue - its about development, mental and learning the game as much as physical.

Risk of injury of a developing player against a team we should beat without him, the totting up of suspension points, keeping other players match fit....there are a multitude of reasons why it is sensible to rest him against Sunderland.

Premiership football is not about pure fitness - without going into specifics there are other physiological aspects that a lad of his age (and history) will need to consider whereas Lukaku at the same age may be void of those ailments.

Fact remains - resting Ross for Osman should not have impacted this game. it did but only because Osman forgot he was a footballer for a split second.

It was a goalkick that Howard started towards looking like he was going to hoof it upfield but backed out and sidefooted it to a player who had a man on his back.

And why was Osman even in the CB position to recieve the ball in the first place? where were Jags and Distin to recieve the ball?

I still think our team is a bit unfamiliar with RM's methods, and to be fair, they still performed very well. e.g. there were a few plays they should have gone through the middle, especially when Sunderland started move outward to cut off RB's shooting lanes. The D line was actually moving outwards while we're holding the ball around the midfield. All in all, the usual "we lack finishers" problem came in but it could easily be the other way if Mannone is not at the top of his form.

Osman is really second fiddle to McCarthy and Barry, so unless we get another backup, possibly in converting other players or transfer, we're short staffed there. I actually think we can push a few defenders up into that spot, such as Baines.

Osman as often happens makes a very bad decision and executes it even worse, but go down one-nil to Sunderland early on, it's bad but not a disaster. Going one-nil down and having your goal-keeper sent off is. As a decision-maker, Howard (and Osman) lack that capacity that shows the football brain.

Osman is an integral cog in our squad and is the obvious player who should be used to rotate the midfielders when the manager deems fit. Martinez has this team playing for each other and although we do not have any big stars we are doing just fine. Liverpool are just two points ahead of us now so what is the problem?

If Roberto gets a couple of decent signings during January, I can still see a successful end to this season.

The player was five yards off him, at the very least all he had to do was knock it back to Howard and shield the ball but he managed to somehow trip over the thing and offered about as much of a human shield as a strip of cling film.

He must have been expecting a pass as he was in a position he would not normally have taken up so there's no argument for the surprise element either.

I'm a fan of what Osman has done for Everton but that was simply horrendous...but the general point I'm making is not how shit Osman is but rather it was an error rather than Martinez or a dire performance that cost us that game.

If they're that knackered give them a day off mid week so they're fresh for work on Saturday, don't give them the day off on the day you need them!

Absolutely Eric. Although we shouldn't.

If we are going to go along with Martinez here and agree that it's a squad game and players need to be rotated, Osman has to play sometimes. Martinez obviously thought Ross could do with a break (physically or mentally) so Osman came in. If players never got tired or suspended, I think most of us would pick the same 11 players every week and Osman wouldn't be one of them.

RM is the boss he picks a team that he believes can win any particular game - today he got it wrong - on most other occasions he has got it right.

What we will see in the next couple of months is whether we have improved enough overall to still be in the shake-up at the sharp end of the season - I think in many areas we have - but given you're only as strong as your weakest link we remain tantalisingly close but not yet close enough.

All of our challengers will have days like today so it'll be swings and roundabouts from here on in.

I'm just thinking that if OFM had dropped Barkley for Osman he would have been slaughtered on these pages, but with ONM it's OK 'cos the lad needs a rest?

Just pointing out the dual standards of some of the posts.

that's the reason I feel especially frustrated and cited that many of our dropped points as being painfully needless - or as I said, "its bullshit the teams we have dropped against"
Ok, a draw against the shite - that was not the one on my mind, but Palace (major disgrace), Norwich and now today......... they all add up, all the same, its a good season so far - but to turn it into a great season, we really to stop dropping points against very inferior opposition.

We should be 4th (or even better, if our anticipated 3/4 goal victory had materialised), above Liverpool and 2 points of the top waiting for others to slip up.

The fact we bossed them for about 80 minutes of the match - and 5 of the 10 we didn't we were down to 9 men - tells you not only what a shift the boys put in, but also how bad Sunderland were. Their keeper basically kept them in the game and they got lucky with Osman's individual mistake.

Martinez can't really take much blame for anything other than playing an ill Kevin Mirallas. Personally I'd prefer Martinez not to play Osman because he's too lightweight, but he's still a decent player and you don't expect him to make those mistakes often under no real pressure.

In summary, frustrating as fuck to lose to one of the worst sides to ever play at Goodison and frustrating in the manner in which the goal came. Ultimately its only 3 points though and isn't going to make or break our season, chances of top 4, or chances of the title. What we do in the next 20 games is going to have much more of a bearing on those things. Top 4 is still achievable (we're 2 pts behind the shite), but we can't do it if we keep making individual errors and gifting goals.

One thing I would say is I think Jelavic has deserved a start. Lukaku has gone off the boil in the last few games and Jelavic has looked good when he came on. Neither of them can score at present, but Lukaku is the only one getting playing time. Time for a bit of rotation there and give the big man a rest, perhaps to come off the bench and change a game.

This time last year Naismith, Osman, Jelavic Neville, et al were all in the starting line-up on a regular basis.

I guess it's something to do with squad depth, or lack thereof?

I'll say one thing. We lost which I'm pissed about tonight, but I'm so thankful that we're not playing the football like sunderland where we go 1 up and sit behind the ball defending that lead.

I think in the long-term we'll have the last laugh.

I would argue it has been a great season so far anyway. Wins against Chelsea and OFM at OT, a thrilling draw at Arsenal, a hair's breadth from coming from behind to beat the RS, a walloping of shitty Stoke after a masterclass from Gerry...have you forgotten all these highlights?

As for dropped points, we battered Norwich for long period and their equaliser was a fluke, Carson produced a MOTM to keep us out v W Brom, we could have easily beaten Cardiff and Spurs and I'd hardly consider the Emirates display dropped points. As for City, would you rather our result or Spurs' or Arsenal's

Meanwhile, I'd argue the worldies against Swansea, Oviedo's late OT winner and Baines masterful double v West Ham all secured points where they wouldn't have been relied upon last year.

RM has been in the job for 18 games and he's lost two. His negative net spend on deadline day was in 8 figures. How about considering the points won instead of the points dropped?

Apart from all that, Merry Christmas!

For those defending Martinez's decision on the basis that he thought Barkley needed a rest, clearly he didn't need one, as he was possibly our best player when he came on, and certainly didn't look as knackered as Barkley.

If the reason was that he was on 4 yellow cards, then that is wrong, you have to play for the present not least because the worst (another yellow) may not come to pass. And if it was because RM thought we could beat Sunderland without him, that is worst of all.

if RM wants to play from the back and also accepts that players will make mistakes in doing what he asks for, it may not be the best message to pull Osman off straight away, even if he was the obvious sacrifice. And if Mirallas is ill, as claimed, that isn't obvious anyway.

It's a cock up and frankly a mistake in selection, but these things happen and I agree the test of our mettle is how we bounce back in the next game. Osman will play in that and I hope we get behind him- it was a shocker today, and his lightweight style can be frustrating, but he doesn't deserve permanent villain status.

I much prefer to listen to a man who has played the game at the top level and who fully understands how luck was on his side during the match.

I am proud at the success we have had so far and very few mistakes have happened during our season so far compared to other clubs above and below us.

Some of the above comments are ridiculous and if Barkley had started he may well have got booked in which case we would have had Howard, Barry and Barkley out for the next game. Mirallas was taken ill and had to be subbed according to Martinez in his after the match report.

if Baines is available, I might play him on the Barry spot alongside McCarthy. He has good ball distribution and is primarily a defender. Maybe play him closer to the side of Oviedo to provide cover, while Pienaar to Coleman's side. We don't really have good wingers since Delofeau is out. Play Jags, Dustin at the back as usual, RB right behind the 2 up top. I feel with McCarthy, Baines, Jags, Dustin, Coleman and Oviedo, we're already loaded in defence so as long as they don't move out of position too much, we should have enough coverage.

I feel that today's set up, we're pretty loaded in defence and yet, the fact we are able still able to move the ball around quickly is very good. Osman and Howard had a bad day, RM probably should have started RB, but I'm writing it off as the bad luck day that teams are going to have once in a while. Keep on grinding

Denis #057, Barkley effectively had a 45 minute 'rest', surely he could have had an afternoon nap yesterday and started today?

Give me a central midfielder, a forward and wide player please Bill.

John Daley, that is brilliant pml when I read that!!! Thank you made my day.

You can trawl through the Premier League goalkeepers and find equally impressive performances and great saves. What's keeping Howard in the team is his defence.

We cannot continue with this player, and I hope he is put on the bench after he serves his suspension.

http://www.goalsarena.org/video/england-barclays-premier-league/26-12-2013-everton-sunderland_en.html

That style of play means there'll be some mistakes, and this was a mistake of a slightly misplaced pass from Howard and bad control from Osman. There haven't been many of those this season, and the positives massively outweigh the negatives.

Equally, You can trawl through the Premier Leagye goalkeepers and find equally awful decisions and terrible fuck ups.

Also, I'm glad we're playing it out from the back, but from a goal - kick surely one of the full backs should be asking for it out wide.

In my business we are always looking at the "root cause' of accidents / incidents in order to ensure they don't happen again. In this case the root cause was Howard.

@Eric - Is Howard the root cause? Could say that it's full backs who didn't show for a goalkeeper who's been given clear and strong encouragement *not* to punt it long, and will therefore be looking for the long pass.

Does there need to be a root cause? Does there need to be a single player for everyone to jump on and blame? Cock ups happen. Martinez has said that he's perfectly willing to accept mistakes when we're trying to do things the right way; which is exactly what happened here.

Whenever Barry comes for the ball in that position he turn his body so that he is sideways on when receiving the pass and can either pass it round the corner or back to the keeper it just highlights that Osman is not strong enough to play in the centre for 90 minutes.

Wow, biggest overreaction today.

I'd like to say Howard has been fantastic for the most part this season.

I understand Barkley on the bench but personally I think Osman plays his best games coming off the bench when the pace of the game has slowed down, therefor I would have started Barkley with the view of resting him after half time.

Again nothing is a banker win in the premiership these days and I'm sure Everton will bounce back, jerk reaction by some fans but you cannot fault the effort for the second half performance, take no team for granted, again we lost to a bad mistake, It could have happened to any player, even Distan in the semi, just a shame it happened to the local whipping boy Osman, yes it was a shocker but again could have happened to any player.

Chin-up fellow blues we've had far more good days than bad this season and I am sure we will bounce back against Southampton.

If Howard (or Osman) is that bad in your eyes, then next week will be the first test for his replacement. I think Osman is a bench player and while I place fault partly to him for the goal, its really a team effort.

Did no one tell him "man on"? Did other players ask for the ball? Did they warn Howard? Don't get me wrong, the 2 of them are culpable but its one mistake in a game out of 38 games. Howard is awesome for many other games and Osman has been good for us sometimes. Should RM bench Osman? Does he have the personnel to do that? Will RB burn out if he plays 38 straight games? This is something RM thinks about. And trust me, RM is great so far, he's not perfect, but I look forward to him with the reins for a long time after the displays we have, even in losing efforts, so far.

Looking to the next game Osman is likely to keep his place but being played further forward with Barkley dropping back with McCarthy. The only other option would be to replace Barry with Heitinga and bring Barkley to play once more behind the Lukaku. Time for Martinez to utilise his squad... However all of a sudden its looking pretty small.

I'd like to drop Mirallas but we haven't a replacement.

And this wasn't one of them. Roberto coaches this. We've seen it a couple dozen times this season. Howard plays it out short, if the player is under pressure he plays it back, and THEN Howard launches it downfield.

The blunder was Osman's.

So sad, but a 2nd half to be proud of. Nothing wrong with Everton, nothing wrong with Bobby - the Jelly sub was upbeat and positive and it nearly worked a treat. Thought Barry was a little under par, McCarthy was ace, Coleman is winging his way to player of the season, Ross made a difference but still on one time too many just made that wrong last second decision.

I normally get to three or four games a season Ross (Edwards) - cheers for the sentiments mate - but this was the first this season and my first time watching Ross from the pitch perspective The Old Lady gives, he's a fabergee diamond.

Disappointing, doubly disappointing, but results around us were not that bad for us, a glitch not a deadly sore, onwards and upwards, we'll put it right on Sunday, wave to me in the Park End (Stand), all the best to one and all ........

So sad, but a 2nd half to be proud of. Nothing wrong with Everton, nothing wrong with Bobby - the Jelly sub was upbeat and positive and it nearly worked a treat. Thought Barry was a little under par, McCarthy was ace, Coleman is winging his way to player of the season, Ross made a difference but still on one time too many just made that wrong last second decision.

I normally get to three or four games a season Ross (Edwards) - cheers for the sentiments mate - but this was the first this season and my first time watching Ross from the pitch perspective The Old Lady gives, he's a fabergee diamond.

Disappointing, doubly disappointing, but results around us were not that bad for us, a glitch not a deadly sore, onwards and upwards, we'll put it right on Sunday, wave to me in the Park End (Stand), all the best to one and all ........

Today was a blip bad decision to leave out Barkley and bad decision by Howard to give Ossie the ball under pressure, it's not the end of the world there's still along way to go. It's going to be a hard game Sunday we need to grind out the win and do some good business in January as said in earlier posts Lukaku and Mirallas have gone MIA lately fingers crossedfor good attacking players.

Was it a shit performance? No. There are some days were we could not score in a brothel with £50. That was one one those days.

I went into town after the game to watch the r.s tKe their medicine. That helped.

We move on. Worried we may slide. I sincerely hope we come out fighting next game. I've got a turkey butty and tea. Keep the faith.

Tony Fearns - 098 - If you can't score against the bottom team in league you are not the team you think you are. Personalities getting far too big for their boots already.

I don't buy the idea that Barkley needs a rest. RM should start every game with his strongest starting eleven and take it from there. Barkley could have got a rest after an hour if he needed it. Ossie can't last for more than half an hour.

What the hell is RM saving Barkley for? Is it England trip to Brazil? Miralles is a lazy joke. He only upped his game when Del Boy was showing him up in the last few games. He is also a selfish bastard. Is there a problem with him and Lukaku? He never seems to pass to him as he wants the glory for himself.

Come on, Roberto, give them a kick up the arse. I think they need it; I'm sick as a parrot after losing today because they were there for the taking.

Now go and read the star-spangled-banner-bollocks from Mike Gaynes - 89 - who full disclosure is as you might suspect an American who started supporting Everton in the Timmy/Landon era - nothing wrong with that, but spare me this Uncle Samminess.

Apparently folks, according to Mike Gaynes, Howard makes about one mistake a season, yes about one mistake a season. This patriotic blunderballs cannot not pass by without comment. Yes Howard has been v good these last 2 months but today as Rick notes is the reason why he will never be dependable.

Yes it was as Ossie/Timmy rocky show horror, but it was Howard who played the ball in the first place after a little dithering that allowed Osman to say WTF and the sunderland fella to say aye aye ....

I would love to see Robies do a great job in TH's absence - hardly tested today apart from the double save that came I suppose from his mistake on the first - TODAY folks Robies in one match made as many mistakes as Howard in an entire season, about one .....

stop sides ........

After all, we haven’t lost till you showed up! (And yer never bought me a Chang)

More annoying for me is Jags as captain should be in the refs ear straight away.

From where I was sitting I saw nobody else speak to the ref until 70 odd minutes and that was McCarthy.

Not suggesting constant hounding of officials but we are far too quiet and nice. It would be good to see a few quality additions in January with a little bit of a nark and mouth on them too.

Also, RM's tinkering for next game will be interesting since Barry will also be out.

It's a chance to see Robies stake a claim in goal. I'm not a Howard fan and I don't blame him entirely for the goal. However, after nail-biting years with him in goal, I'll be more than happy with the change.

Great comparison Kev Rowlands, Oviedo/Baines, Robies/Howard ....

Great comparison Kev Rowlands, Oviedo/Baines, Robies/Howard ....

Osman is the one who is way past his sell by date. We need a midfielder to come in January badly. Someone like Diame

Of course he's not the future... he's almsot 35, and may have one more season after the World Cup. But Roberto obviously still thinks he's the best keeper he has, or Joel would be starting. And the day Roberto thinks Joel is the best, he'll be in there. But Howard has won a couple for Everton this year with sensational saves, and I still say there's nobody better on pens.

As for Howard no longer being at Old Trafford, that's simple -- VDS was better, one of the five best in the world at the time, and Howard was erratic. I think anybody who calls him erratic now hasn't been watching.

That said, Roberto's comment in postgame laid shared responsibility on Howard and Osman. I yield to the manager's judgement.

I think Ossie's slip is Ossie's mistake, no question. Horrible.

I also think that Howard playing it to Ossie is not the greatest of goalkicks.

But I also think that that is how Roberto wants us to play - from and around the back. And we've been saying all along that in playing that way there will be times when there's a booboo at the back. Today we saw it. Doesn't excuse the slip, but we've been predicting the consequences of this sort of slip for a while now.

Referees seem to have screwed a lot of teams over today, bookings not made against the usual suspects which may have altered some of the results.

We completely played them off the park after the horrendous human error we all witnessed.

I was actually proud of our effort down a man.

Well said John Daley at 968. I concur 100%.

It was a human moment and my brother-in-law who watched the game with me along with myself, 2 sons, 4 cousins, a sister, a niece and a great-niece summed it up perfectly (and he knows nothing about "soccer"). He said - "Their keeper beat you. You shoulda scored at least 4 times."

And down a man...

Onwards and Upwards. Great second half effort - in fact a valiant beautiful effort. We move on.

This is the last time we see ole' Ozzie get in the starting 11 for some time I hope!

Martinez is trying to build a possession culture in the team and THAT'S WHY Howard passed the ball, so it's not his fault: what he was responsible for is not throwing his hands at the ball, as more times than not, even if a ref thinks it may be a foul, he can't be sure due to the natural flailing of arms over the ball. Sitting on his arse and kicking out (even though he made little contact) gave the despicable Probert just the excuse he needed to get his repugnant rodent features and mincing gait on centre stage. We now have 2 players ineligible and hopefully one discarded for the Soton game. Judging by the domination of our depleted ranks in the 2nd half, we have the spirit to bounce back. I also agree with previous comments that the change was unnecessary; if anyone should have been benched it would have been Distin, our oldest outfield player. Can't wait for Sunday and we'll get this blip out of our system COYBB

A Scot, in his Liverpool jersey, made some friendly comments to us this morning while we were watching the game. Nice fella...

I order the Irish breakfast, my son orders the sausage rolls, and my other son orders a shepherds pie.

We eat, I have a few beers. I'm in agony screaming at every chance missed... the guy leaves the pub.

The lovely bartender comes over after he's left and tells us "that man in the Liverpool jersey just bought your breakfast."

It must be Christmas. I'd understand it if he was an American band-wagon jumper, but he was from across the pond.

A red bought a blue breakfast...

He said on the way out "root for Liverpool". I didn't know he'd bought our meal. I responded, "that'll be tough, can't do it friend."

My sons were beside themselves, as was I.

If he is selected in Barry's absence in few days, I'll be pissed. There are several other options before that is needed, and he needs to pay his penalty just as other players have in past seasons (Barkley, Heitinga, Coleman to name 3 current players).

"We have very strong concepts for when a pass is on and what the decision will be when you receive the ball. Both players probably got their decisions wrong. But they are two players who have been reliable throughout the season, winning us so many points, and we are going to learn from this."

To say it was inevitable that we would mess up a game like this or call today's performance 'choking' is just defeatist nonsense.

If the manager selects Osman and the opposition simply pour through the midfield all game then the manager can be called for a wrong selection; if the player screws up a simple decision and gifts an opponent a clear goal-scoring opportunity you can't fault the selection on the basis of that isolated incident. This isn't a kick-about in the park and even youngsters may struggle to play 3 games in a week at full effectiveness (which is what we require from potential game winners like Ross Barkley).

Was Howard equally culpable and should he have let the player simply score to avoid the possibility of a red card?

It was a poor option to take but it looked to me that Osman asked for the ball, and he always had the simple option (if he realised Ki was bearing down on him) of playing the ball back to Howard for him to punt up field. Ossie didn't slip, he stumbled because he seemed to want to attempt to turn as the ball reached him, presumably because he was expecting an imminent challenge. If Howard gave him a warning shout and he still attempted this manoeuvre rather than taking the easy option then the blame is his alone.

Would any of us be happy if the keeper didn't make any attempt, however futile, to challenge the attacker in these situations? Wouldn't that be another stride down the 'only attacking play counts' road? I have long thought that the straight red is unfair on these occasions unless it is reserved for a deliberate foul. A genuine attempt to get to the ball fairly shouldn't even be a yellow as the award of a penalty kick is severe enough.

Truth is the wheels have come off, just a wee bit. Fulham looked a great win on paper but wasn't. Swansea was a game of two great goals and lot of solid but often going nowhere possession. Since those performances at Utd and Arsenal there are signs that injuries are starting to impact, at exactly the same moment that several players are running out of steam - aka Mirallas and Lukaku really struggling. The latter is a surprise but it's really quite stark. Suddenly you can see that he isn't that good at heading the ball or holding it up and his first touch can be woeful. Yep he clearly can run at defences and we know he can finish..... But right know he's getting poor service and looks nothing like the confident no9 we saw a few weeks ago and that's an issue.

The screams at this defeat are understandable. It's not about the loss as such, it's about the nerve shredding angry frustration at watching a superb opportunity go begging....again. This was about "context". In the scheme of things it was about going above the shite and putting real pressure on Arsenal, Chelsea and yes City. It was about confidence and momentum. It doesn't wipe out a very good season so far, it doesn't mean the new mgr is rubbish but it does mean we badly need to win the next two or quickly face losing contact with those above us.

I'm pissed off at Howard and Osman but frankly I thought even with ten men and one nil down we were, or should have been, good enough to win. Sunderland are dire and were missing key players at the back. But apart from two or three genuinely unlucky missed chances, I thought we ran out of ideas quite quickly and Sunderland frustrated us at times with surprisingly clever if dull possession football of their own. Why change a winning team ? Answer, don't, whatever the risks.

It's all just a real shame, a disappointment, and as I say, in context of this season, a missed opportunity but if we can put aside injuries and suspensions and beat an inconsistent Southampton and a bloody aweful Stoke City, things can get back on track just in time for a couple or three January arrivals and clearly they are needed.

If a player with over a decades experience in the PL, 300 games at the same club and international caps can't be trusted to receive a pass ANYWHERE on the pitch, he shouldn't be in a side which had ambitions of finishing above relegation. And if a player can't manage to play at that standard for 90 mins then he shouldn't be playing end of. He wasn't sold short or even made to move to the ball, it went to his feet and Ki was yards behind him, under 10's football and if we don't have a better player in his position somewhere at the club, we are fucked

Jelavic needs to remember he isn't in the Scottish Pub League anymore and his multiple fucked up overhead kicks have no place in a crowded area, christ just boot the bleeding ball. I hope the poundland Geordies do get relegated as they are utterly gash.

One plus side got to share a pint before kick off with Kunal, was good to meet up again and fit in a beer, we'll have to line that up again mate.

Despite conceding a shite goal and an even shitter defeat against a truly rubbish team, the 10 left (at any given time) after the sending off gave their all NSNO! Shit happens, live and learn and so forth...let's now get behind the lads for the duel against the Saints. COYB!

We need some depth, I am hoping that Martinez signs a couple in January, If not, we are destined for a top 6 finish. We need another Striker and a Midfielder, that are better than Heitinga and Jelavic, to be honest it might be difficult finding a better striker to Jelavic and his early form. I still feel that maybe Jelavic should be given more of a chance. Heitinga wasn't too bad in that midfield position, he was shocking as a defender.

It was a dive all day long.

Oooooh but there was contact!

Now whether he 'waited' for contact or simply chose to hit the deck, it was a dive dive dive. The refs should have courage not to blow the whistle.

Anyway, love how selfish Ross was being when he came on. Would like to see more or that. All the great players think they can do it all on their own and soon enough he will.

Osman was fucking day dreaming the useless twat. Nick is right, it was a dive.

Look at the replay closely and you will see he knocks the ball to far in front of himself and the swan dives.

I thought Barkley should have been allowed to ride the crest of a wave from the Swansea game, and the decision to drop him was Moyes-esque, keep his feet on the ground bollocks. Martinez has banged on so much about using the whole squad that I don't think he believes you can use the same 11 players for 2 games in a row.

We need to bounce back. The gaff yesterday cost us the game, and it is up to the players and the manager to make sure it doesn't cost us our momentum, as the second half was still a decent performance and their defence led a very charmed life. Barry will be missed. I'm not sure McCarthy knew what he was doing yesterday, it wasn't one of his better games.

Sure Osman should not have miscontrolled it but what the hell was Howard going to achieve by passing it to Osman in the first place? He just created a situation where at best he would be back to where he started ie Howard with the ball, or at worst Osman fucks up. So Howard decided to give Osman a chance to fuck up and he obliged.

Hopefully this teaches everybody not to look too far ahead, one game at a time mantra needs to be adopted from here on in. Southampton will be a very difficult game.Squad looks bare now, if Martinez was going resting anybody yesterday it should have been Lukaku,he looks knackered and half the player he was earlier on in season. Gibson and Kone's injuries are now beginning to be felt.Game was made for Deulefeo yesterday and his injury couldn't have come at a worse time.

I think that it would’ve been a difficult game regardless of the sending off. Even clubs who spend a fortune on their playing staff struggle to beat teams who put ten men behind the ball. This is why players who can unlock a massed defence are worth their weight in gold.

Number One priority in the transfer market should be a creative player. If Deulofeu was fit, he would have been the ideal man in a game like this to produce a goal.

We should not underestimate Southampton as they will be just as difficult. The thing is I am just delighted that we have RM as our manager as I know that long term we will be a far more attractive outfit than before.

Don’t knock or players — they play for Everton and Tim and Leon have been first class over the years.

We can all say "it's just 3 points" — guess what? This is the tightest title race in many years and this should've been a home 3 pointer. Sorry. In my eyes Leon is 80% to blame....

And another thing is, how little confidence the team must have in Little Leon. He must be at a point where players are nervous to pass him the ball?? Most of the time he'll give you a safe sideways or backwards pass but sometimes he'll step on it like an idiot and poof, there goes the dependability

I bet the stats don't bear that out. When Osman plays, he has a high number of passes received and given.

It is not natural for English players to play this way. I believe that 90%+ of us, would rather Howard launch it and play tippy-tappy from the half way line forwards.

Still, I can't wait for Sunday and the next match. I can't remember having that feeling to many times under Moyes and some of the drivel of the last 10 years, that we have had to endure!

"Leon is a bright, bright footballer. He's someone who takes ideas on board, he understands the reasons and he makes teams think. I think if you look at his quick feet in tight spaces he always gives you something. He understands where the space is, is quick and alert and he has a lot to offer."

I think it goes without saying that as a club we need to look at replacing him as he is definitely in the twilight of his career. But saying that this gaffe will define his career depends on the person:

For some people, they are adamant he has been shit since he started playing for us so will be more than happy that he royally fucked up. Many were even wishing it to happen to end his career with us.

For others, they will appreciate having a true Evertonian playing 300 games for us, during which he has scored some exceptional goals.

Howard could see that Osman had a Sunderland player standing a few feet from him and the most Osman could have done even if he had controlled the pass was knock it back to him in which case he would have cleared the ball up the pitch. Exactly what he should have done the the first place.

During the Swansea game Barkley was put clean through for what should have been a certain goal. But he was in such a hurry he fell over his own feet and the chance was lost. Now nobody is saying that Barkley is the worst player we have ever had and he must never play for Everton ever again.

Even the best players can miss-control a moving ball but all Howard has to do was kick a stationary ball up the pitch and away from his goal and all this would have been avoided. He patently failed to do this so the responsibility for the penalty and the goal and his own subsequent sending off lies fairly and squarely with him.

This Osman bashing is a bit like hitting yourself with a sharp stick - fucking sore. What does grate me with our limited squad rotation, is the thought that Osman & Barkley play in the same position - well sort of, and therefore they can do the same thing, well sort of NO fucking chance. Fuck me, Osman has trouble running out onto the fucking pitch and as for picking up the ball and running at goal - Osman will just tell you to fuckoff. If Barkley is unavailable and Osman is selected, then our whole game plan goes out of the window because we revert to attacking down the channels, with almost zero central penetration. Osman's position? Fucks knows, but it is not an attacking midfielder.

My response was "So, Chris, you didn't see Barkley fall over his own feet at Swansea when clean through?" Typically, you didn't respond but you carry on slagging Osman off with the "tiny, little Leon" jibes.... tell me, why do you think you know better than Martinez? After all, he picked him and has gone on record in the past praising "tiny, little Leon" and also justifying his selection to the full England squad. Yet you know so much better than Martinez....I wonder why your name wasn't in the frame when Moyes went. Dead easy, this managing game isn't it? Especially after the match has finished.

Incidentally, I didn't hear a "man on" shout when Howard gave him the ball, that might have helped.

He wasn't knocked of the ball in that penalty incident, was he?