For me, the honeymoon with the Roberto revolution is now well and truly over. Sad thing is that nothing will change and like with Kenwright, the majority of fans will accept Robbie's bullshit.

From a manager who defends a 1-0 deficit, to a manager who could put a positive spin on a 10-0 defeat. If only we could clone the two bastards into one person. We would probably have the right balance.

A good friend of mine who was able to get a ticket and who usually phones me with a match report rang me when he got home and for once didn't want to talk about the outcome of the game but more about what can only be described as an unsavoury element of our fan base that we can well do without.

His concern was about two things. The first was the racist chants from our so called fans towards Distin and Lukaku. The second was the use of smoke bombs.

I can only hope that if anyone knows who these idiots were that they "shop" them at the first chance they get. I for one do not want them to tarnish our club with their bigoted racist views and child like dangerous behaviour.

And we wonder why Arsenal only gave us the number of tickets that they did. Just as well in this case, but it only takes a few to spoil the fun of many.

Vellios played for Greece Under-21s midweek and they came back from a goal down and with only 9 men after 25 mins to win. I would've loved to have seen some of that spirit today.

He talks and talks about how great all his players are... how about praising them when they actually deserve it? We have heard how wonderful McGeady is, yet so far he has done nothing.

Send Delboy back, he's another over-hyped player, he could not beat his man in five one-on-one attempts. Barry's not got the legs anymore and is only going to get slower. No heart and no spirit equals no chance. Bring back the Dogs of War, 1995 – not flashy but I was always proud when watching them.

Wenger used the same kind of retreating defence as used successfully by Rodgers and Co. It goes something like this: pack your defence and counter-attack with speed. The only time we did that was Barkley's 70-yard sprint that led to our goal. Normally it would have required about twenty passes to advance the ball that distance.

Many on these pages think Roberto's manic almost childish obsession with tic-tac is the only way to go, which I believe is an over reaction to OFMs years of safety first negativity.

Regardless what players come or go, Roberto must temper his current all-out attacking style or we could end up in a much worse situation.

"Football is basically a holding game balanced between attack and defence. It is not and never has been a game of non-stop attack. Roberto's over concentration on attack comes at a cost that has been exposed and ruthlessly exploited by astute managers."

Two posters, both complaining but, about polar opposites. Unfortunately typical of much of what has been posted today.

Sadly, ToffeeWeb is currently morphing into what it has long been labelled (but which I never saw until recently) – a bunch of miserable, serial complainers. The inconsistencies in the opinions is breathtaking!

But this reasonable question grates for me at any rate... The question is: Who in their right mind would put out a much weakened back line against regular Champions League qualifiers on their own patch and expect to progress to the Semi-Final?

Look at the bench; Howard, Hibbert, McGeady, Deulofeu, Naismith, Osman, Browning.

Okay, I could see a shout for Hibbert in the middle but no. Without our disappearing Paraguyan, Stones was the right pick; but, yes, I agree: along with Baines and Coleman at the back, he had a poor day at the office (Distin was slightly better than this) but, given his options, Martinez was right to pick Stones.

Si — do you seriously expect everyone posting on here to view the game in the same way? That would be more than breathtaking.

We each have our own views of the game, the players, the manager... some overlap; some don't.

And guess what: we get more posts 'complaining', as you put it, when we have a poor result. Isn't that only natural?

Try to accept the diversity of opinion — rather than trying to beat it all into submission to your will.

I also would have preferred Howard (and countered a post that was singing Robles praises) but I can't say that I saw any evidence today that the goalkeeper's bizarre insistence to punch catchable balls translated into a lack of confidence in him amongst his team-mates. They seemed content to leave him to deal with the balls that he should be dealing with. I don't remember any mistake he made that had a tangible negative out-come and don't think he could have reasonably been expected to prevent any of their goals.

Has my mind blotted out something that happened in the game?

I maybe having a whinge, but at least I have tried to provide evidence of what I am talking about.

The fact that two such contrary posts appear so close together without any apparent interaction suggests that people aren't interested in what other people think, nor why they think it, which seems a little perverse on a site which I presume is intended to stimulate 'conversation' between fellow Evertonians.

It is not intended as an attack on the two posters (though I do disagree with their opinions) just on what I see as a growing trend of obliviousness.

Maybe I am feeling a little brow-beaten by the tide of negativity; I don't expect any of us to be happy when we lose, but I dislike the bitterness that has crept in.

I have just pointed out that two posters have both complained about Martinez's style of play but apparently one thinks it is all too safe and the other thinks it is too attack-minded.

At least one of them could be right. You, however, are blaming the selection of Robles when he cannot be held accountable for any of their goals. Almost as ridiculous as calling Tim Howard mediocre. There may be some who are better, but they are very few. No doubt you can provide me with a long list of of infallible goalkeepers currently plying their trade that relegate Howard to the no better than average category.

I suggest you look in the mirror to see who is actually posting stuff that could be considered biased to their own opinion.

I make no appology for saying that against teams that employ a retreating defence Ticka Tacka will bring us more defeats than wins .
Coming from a country that invented that style I would expect

Match in the mid-eighties - opposition (?) either in the box or at the edge of it. Bracewell plays a long pass onto the right wing. Steven shows his pace, powers into the box and scores. Goodison erupts !

My point ?

Possession football is meaningless without an end product.

You can have 99% possession stats, be the media's darlings for playing 'good football' and have a very articulate, likeable, well-presented manager spouting superlative upon superlative about how everything and everyone is 'wonderful'.

Football isn't an art form - it's visceral game and winning is everything.

Sunderland 4-1. Great goal

www.youtube.com/watch?v=_YnbAO9XGRo

Happy days. They ain't coming back......

Brian@747 ' Happy days. They ain't coming back .....' Hope springs eternal but you may well be right.

Saw most of that season at Goodison and yes very happy days.

Am I looking back with rose tinted spectacles or did 'Our Howie' assemble most of that side for relatively low cost ?

Reid, Mountfield and Southall weren't much were they then ( in comparative terms for the time) ?

Seem to remember Steven was £300,000. Went to watch him play for Burnley when I knew we were interested in him. He was playing alongside Martin Dobson who was coming to the end of his career - but still class !

Could it be done again ?

I was in the Gwladys Street End that day. We were top, Sunderland bottom, so it was a surprise when they went ahead. But the passing, movement and brilliant finishing that day was something else.

Your point is well made – we had forward momentum in that era and an objective to the passing which was to score.

Funny what nostalgia can do.

In two years, we will hopefully have a mature Ross Barkley linking up with a 19-year-old George Green with midfield anchored by a 24-year-old James McCarthy who by then will be a man able to boss his central area. Stones will be England centre half and Coleman will be in his prime – get the picture?

I keep repeating that Roberto has tried to mould this squad into the style he plays; in the main, it has worked well but he will know better than anyone that he needs to replace certain players... Once he gets the right ones, the style will evolve and that is when the goals should be easier to come by. Yes, we need to find a striker from somewhere and I have no doubt we will.

Yesterday was depressing but Roberto has only had eight or nine months so far – we have to give him time and I would be looking for season after next to be the time when we should be judging him – not before. It took Howard Kendall a few years to bring his team through and I can remember the terrible abuse he and the team were getting – they couldn't score at all... and suddenly, for no real reason, it started to click – not overnight but they gradually evolved over a few months... and we all know what came next.

SAF needed a while too at Man Utd – we must be patient and grit our teeth.

And as for the morons with racist chants – absolutely unbelievable! Someone please tell the police who they are and let's get them thrown inside. I can't believe this – and at our own players!!!

I was there. Kendall scored after 14 seconds I think and we were 3 up after 10 mins including a second from HK. That was a good Chelsea side too with Osgood, Hutchinson, Hudson, Cooke etc and we absolutely murdered them with Colin Harvey in his prime – what a player he was!!!

We ALL seem to have been gritting our teeth for 30 years now.

Must be a lot of Everton fans out there with falsies!

Closing in on the title, "Back Home' was played over the tannoy at half time... lol. Where have 20k Evertonians gone since 1970??

1) The young goalie made a number of good saves so it can not be put down to him we lost.

2) I am furious that our own fans were racially abusing two players who mostly do their best Distin (our best player by far this season) and young Lukaka. He is unlikely to even consider staying after that, long shot as it was.

3) We did our best and Barkley's miss, not the penalty, was the turning point, but give the lad a break.

4) Our manager is still learning.

5) Arsenal's first goal was scored by a player that cost more than our whole team.

I think it would assist people on this site to a healthy life to realise where we are and likely to be for the foreseeable future. The Top 5 is almost always going to be the same bunch. Our best chance is a cup run.

I go home and away with my son, his friend (both 16) and my father who is 68. After the goal we all celebrated and were engulfed in the blue smoke and realised that the smoke bomb was under my seat, this was not the first time one had landed next to us, the first one (before the game started) was thrown away by the elderly gentleman standing next to us.

Both me and my father suffer from asthma and luckily enough I had my inhaler on me, so I made a judgement call to quickly pick up the bomb and throw it onto the running track for stewards to extinguish. 10 minutes later I was arrested for throwing a missile onto the pitch and bringing fireworks into the stadium, taken to Holloway police station and put into a cell for nearly 4 hours, leaving the rest of my party to wander round London trying to find out were I was.

After being fingerprinted, photographed, DNA tested and interviewed, I was released without charge as the detective believed that I had only thrown it away for me and my family's health and Safety.

The idiots who bring these pyrotechnics into grounds are ruining the occasion, they don't set them off and leave them were they sit but kick or throw them somewhere else into the crowd for us all to suffer and this is making me think twice about attending away games.

Mirallas in the 1st half, instead of shooting at the keeper could have looked up and picked out Lukaku who was in acres and acres of space in front of goal (in the exact same situation, the Arsenal player I think it was Rosicky picked out Giroud and it was a tap-in)... or Barkley missing a golden opportunity when Lukaku had set up the goal on a platter... and the experienced Barry giving away a very soft penalty. These were the small things that made a big difference in the end. Individual mistakes and poor decision-making led to the loss, not poor selection or tactics.

My observations and opinions:

Mirallas is one of the most selfish players I have seen wear an Everton shirt. He should be benched from now on. Naismith or Osman for me any day over Mirallas. These guys work for the team – not for individual glory.

Lukaku worked hard yesterday and that was nice to see. He was working wide right or wide left especially in the 2nd half and was always winning the ball and being a thorn in Arsenal's defence. One of his best performances in a long time.

Coleman is having a dip in form – he hasn't been as effective as in the first half of the season.

Barkley had a good match in patches. He needs to improve his decision-making too.

The back 5 did look shaky, Stones and Robles in particular, but agree with Si, Robles was not to blame for any of their goals.

But, this run of poor results is worrying – we need to rediscover the winning habit fast.

Just as under OFM, the availability of only a small bank of real quality players means that two thirds of them know they are a shoe-in for every game and the likes of Mirallas, Pienaar and Osman have to be indulged in, come what may.

Perhaps alone on here, I see no surprise in this situation as whoever is manager for the time being will always be doing a good job to achieve the budgeted top third finish and Fifth Round Cup exit.

The simple solution is not to get your hope up for anything much better because it just ain’t gonna happen. Ever.

He wasn't at fault for the goals – and made a couple of decent saves to be fair – but, on a number of occasions when we were under the cosh, he failed to relieve the pressure as we needed him to.

A keeper coming to claim a cross, calming everyone down and taking the sting out of an attack can change the momentum of a game. Instead of that, we were kept under pressure because he kept flapping and punching things that should have been routine. It's likely that seeing the keeper making basic errors encouraged Arsenal to shoot on sight more and to put the ball in danger areas more rather than patiently building and giving us the opportunity to win the ball back.

Also, his kicking is absolutely abysmal, meaning that we were regularly giving away throw-ins when he was trying to kick out to Coleman on the right, turning the start of an attack into defence. He also failed to get sufficient distance on his long kicks, meaning we weren't getting a platform for attacks in their half.

He may not have directly influenced the result but there's far more to it than just saying he couldn't have stopped any of the goals.

Whether or not Martinez felt it necessary to honour a promise to play him in cup games is immaterial for he must have been aware that he would provide an unsettling backcloth to a defence already weakened by the absence of Jagielka.

It was a bad shout and one I have no doubt the manager regrets.

I tend to find my views reflect the middle of the road on this site and I tend not to post if someone has already made the point I would have. Some of the 'extreme' (or nonsensical) views really do niggle me, but I am not looking to have them quashed or anything - as I understand it I have the equal right to try to undermine them by posting about them.

Okay, not everyone will check what has gone before or even what replies may be made to their posts and I am not expecting that to be some sort of site rule. It is just that by choosing to post on a supporters forum you would hopefully want to find out about other peoples opinions as well, and consider where yours sits in the mix.

My initial point remains; those who want Martinez to change his approach would do well to thrash out between them exactly what is wrong with it in the first place.

Yes, I did notice the posts that suggested Robles spread panic throughout his defence, but I didn't see it myself. The defenders did not start to avoid playing the ball to him or trying to deal with balls that were his responsibility. The punching was comical at times because it was unnecessary, but it did not actually cause problems because he did manage to clear the danger on each occasion. In some ways it would have been far more unnerving if he had been attempting to catch balls and kept dropping them in the danger area.

Any mistakes the defenders did make seemed to be due to lack of communication / lack of understanding of who was covering who rather than anything to do with the keeper who simply kept punching balls he should have been able to catch. That can just as easily be considered to be due to the skill / hard work of the opposition and a measure of inexperience.

Before the game my choices were for Howard and Alcaraz, but having watched it I can't say with any degree of certainty that the inclusion of either (or both) of those players would have prevented us from losing that game, and in Robles' case there is nothing that can definitely be attributed to him.

For me, neither of those apparently contradictory assessments address what is our major problem, which is translating the possession we do have (a lot in the oppositions half) into genuine goal-scoring opportunities.

I don't see where you get 'wholesale attack' from. The whole point of the Barry / McCarthy pairing is to ensure that there is adequate cover for the full-backs when they venture forward. This responsibility has been so instilled into McCarthy that, in my opinion, he tends to ignore good opportunities to receive the ball in a relatively advanced position and prompt an attacking move himself, even when we are well in control against lesser opposition.

Bloody idiots.

For crying out loud, the man's name is LUKAKU. Is that so hard to get your head around? You have been picked up on it before and seemingly take no notice. It's not even a misspelling...you clearly just don't know the guy's name! Sort it out.