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Impasse with United foils late Cleverley bid

by | 01/09/2014  Comments (486)  jump
No deadline-day additions to Martinez's squad

Everton confirmed the transfer of Shane Duffy to Blackburn Rovers for an undisclosed fee
Everton's attempts to draft Tom Cleverley into the squad today were scuppered by Manchester United's refusal to lower their price for the midfielder, according to reports. It had been suggested throughout the day that the Blues had tried to sign Cleverley on loan but reports conflict over the terms of the deal.

Though there was early speculation suggesting Roberto Martinez might try and sign central defensive cover in the wake of Shane Duffy's transfer to Blackburn, nothing came of the rumours and the club told reporters at 10pm that they were done for transfer deadline day.

Cleverley reportedly turned down the chance to join Aston Villa earlier in the day and was holding out instead for a reunion with Martinez but he will now stay at Manchester United after Everton revealed there was not enough time left to hammer out a compromise deal over the asking price. There have been suggestions that Everton found United's evaluation of the player on either a permanent transfer (8m) or loan deal to be unrealistic.

Meanwhile, in a surprising twist, David Henen looks set for Olympiakos after the Greek side have stepped in with a late bid for the 18-year-old striker. Anderlecht quickly confirmed that they were in talks and Henen signed a four-year contract there rather than complete his expected transfer to Everton.

Curiously, there are reports that Everton might still keep Henen on loan for the season, though.

The rest of the rumours and speculation came to nothing, including reported moves for Stoke City's Ryan Shawcross, Toby Alderweireld and Portuguese defender Rolando.

A preliminary approach to take Matija Nastasic on loan from Manchester City with a view to buy next season didn't get much further than an initial enquiry.

Lewis Holtby, another player mentioned in connection with the Blues, joined SV Hamburg on loan while Danny Welbeck, hotly tipped for Goodison before the arrival of Samuel Eto'o, joined Arsenal for 16m after United's insistence on a permanent deal ended Everton's and Tottenham's interest.  


Reader Comments (486)

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Mark Tanton
1 Posted 01/09/2014 at 06:40:58
I wouldn't be surprised if there's nothing doing today. By Evertonian standards it's been a good window and I fear that may be our lot.
David Chait
2 Posted 01/09/2014 at 07:08:13
Will the never ending story of David Henen be sorted! I'm on the edge of my seat.... Not.
Craig Fletcher
3 Posted 01/09/2014 at 07:06:14
Nastasic on loan with an option to buy I’d be very happy with. Quality young player who already has a reasonable amount of experience with Fiorentina, City and his national side. Did very well for City before his injury last season.

If he’s now fit, it’s a no-brainer for me. Will put the pressure on Jags and Distin to perform.

I wouldn’t sell Gibbo unless we had midfield cover coming in.

Joe O'Brien
4 Posted 01/09/2014 at 07:12:45
It's been a good window for us so far, but I really hope the rumours are true and we'll have two new centre half's by 11 tonite. I think we will. The 1st 3 games have made it glaringly obvious that we need strengthening there. There's other positions that we need cover as well, right full and keeper but I'm not bothered as long we get two new centre half's. Tick tock tick tock
Neil Cremin
5 Posted 01/09/2014 at 07:21:34
I have been saying for years that we needed centre-halves. Now after Saturday it is our main priority. Everybody saying we had third best defence in league last season but we still conceded silly goals at the end of games. Was that not a signal that, as both centre-halves were well over 30, as well as one of the replacements, that we should be planning for the future and not hoping for a last minute.com deal today. I fear for the season ahead.
Man Li
6 Posted 01/09/2014 at 07:40:49
Season long loan for both Toby Alderweireld and Ben Arfa are good

Alderweireld is solid and fast, just doesn't match Aletico tactics. Believe he will be useful under Martinez.

Ben Arfa can add speed and dribble, he also can dept to square.

Jim Bennings
7 Posted 01/09/2014 at 07:41:51
The only thing I will say is

THERE IS NOT A CAT IN HELL'S CHANCE WE WILL GET 4th WITH THAT DEFENCE...

If Roberto can't see that then the only word that crops up is 'naive'.

He can spend the rest of the season bigging up Jagielka and Distin but as fans who have watched Everton Football Club for years we know when our defence has a major issue.

The only other two options are a green inexperienced 20 year old, great composed ball player but can't be expected yet to bully centre forwards.

And Alcaraz who ends up ruled out for months after playing one game.

I don't expect any business today either lads, that to me has just put a nail in our overall ambitions this season.

The Europa League hasn't even started yet, God knows what a few injuries could do.

Jim Bennings
8 Posted 01/09/2014 at 07:50:07
We will have to reassess where our ambitions lie this season now in my opinion.

If we fail to strengthen that defence TODAY then we all need to accept that we will be having the same debates about cheap goals being conceded all season.

It has been a problem throughout 2014 , conceding shite goals, at the end of the day that's what cost us finishing 4th last season, the games against Palace and Southampton.

We cannot expect any different this season.

James Hughes
9 Posted 01/09/2014 at 07:47:42
We desperately need to add at least one more competent Centre Half today. And, as I said on Saturday, put a restraining order on Jags to keep him away from GP on match days.

We shouldnÂ’t let Gibson leave as we need number plus the he was singing Â’Grand Old TeamÂ’ after we beat Manure in 2012

I have a feeling it will be a busy day for the club, or at least I am hoping it is.

Craig Fletcher
10 Posted 01/09/2014 at 07:58:11
Take a deep breath and have a lie down Jim. Sheesh. If that’s the reaction 3 games into the season, you may be in for a long year. Just say’in like.
Jim Bennings
11 Posted 01/09/2014 at 08:04:06
Craig

The trouble us too many Evertonians have the Bill Kenwright "all is rosy " view.

If people can't see our problems yet still expect this side to challenge the top 4 then they'd be in cloud cuckoo land.

We failed to beat too many shite teams last season because we conceded cheap goals and it cost us 4th.

The last few years it's cost us the F.A Cup too.

What I want is to ask the people who post on here,..

How many fans are happy and feel safe with going into the rest of the season with the four central defenders we have?

Mark Andersson
12 Posted 01/09/2014 at 08:02:00
Have to agree with you Jim. My glass half full is waneing each game. Still we are exciting going forward so who knows what's gonna happen this season. Just hold on tight and enjoy the ride
Chris Gould
13 Posted 01/09/2014 at 08:01:49
I think we will bring in a new face or two, and hopefully they will have a similar impact to last summer’s last minute business. I don't want to see Gibson go. If he does, I suspect that he hasn’t come back from his injury quite the same player that he was. I think we miss his passing range and guile. We have a great record with him in the side and, if fully fit, I’d like to see him back in the starting 11.
Jim Bennings
14 Posted 01/09/2014 at 08:10:31
Don't get me wrong if we're going to do it the Kevin Keegan way and start being the team to score 4 in the 7 goal thrillers then great, but if our defence let's us down to the point it has so far it's going to put monumental pressure on the forwards.

Every time we got back into that match on Saturday we threw it all away when we just maybe, and iI say maybe, could have had Chelsea on the ropes for the last 15 minutes.

David Midgley
15 Posted 01/09/2014 at 08:37:50
What's happening with the David Henen saga?

Will he be signed or just have to go back home after all this time waiting about ?

He's probably got a mortgage and two kids by now !!

Derek Knox
16 Posted 01/09/2014 at 08:31:03
With you Jim Bennings on the points you make suggesting that many are dreaming if they think our defensive problems are due to a temporary blip, bad luck or whatever.

It is glaringly obvious to most of us that the ageing partnership of Distin and Jags (and Tim to a degree) will just not work as it once did.

As to who, or indeed if we will get ayone of quality in, I don't know. I like the sound of Nastasic as he has youth on his side (well, he's early twenties) not sure about Rolando, Shawcross or Alderweireld.

The latter I heard from SSN that he was on the verge of joining Southampton, I remember being linked with him before and I read the reports and watched the YouTube clips, with the shit music accompaniment, and was impressed. After seeing him in the World Cup though, he didn't look as good. (maybe he only plays good to shit music)

Now Lewis Holtby, I would like, not just because of his well known and publicised love of Everton(mind you it does help) but I think he is a good and under-estimated player who could certainly benefit us.

Craig Fletcher
17 Posted 01/09/2014 at 08:40:45
I’m not saying I have an "all is rosy" viewpoint Jim as you put it, and I’m inclined to agree with you - after the weekend I have concerns over defence too. I would persist with Jags/Distin for the moment, but I do think we need another CB to push them (along with Stones) in the event things don’t improve. Hopefully the weekend was just a freakishly bad performance from a defensive point of view (Jags/Distin were not alone in being culpable either).

However I also think going the other extreme and painting a doomsday scenario this early in the season is a bit OTT. Things will improve, but cover is needed so none of our CB’s can consider themselves to have exclusive rights to the shirt if their form wanes.

Jim Bennings
18 Posted 01/09/2014 at 08:49:12
I too would like Holtby but I can't see it happening, he will leave Spurs but it's probably back to Germany isn't it?

I'm glad I'm not the only one to see our defensive deficiencies, I started touching on it last year about how we don't have to come under any pressure for the opposition to score against us.

We are too easy to score against.

Norwich on the opening day last season, the Goodison Derby when we created enough chances scored goals but let them score three shit setpieces.
Its been going on even in the latter Moyes years though.

You can't hold on to players just because of what they had done over the last 6 year's.

The Redshite knew thru half defensive issues that's why they have signed two new players and put them straight in the team.
At least they have looked to address the issues.

If Martinez truly believes he can somehow go through with those options he has defensively then that 's up to him but he's going to really have his work cut out.

Colin Glassar
19 Posted 01/09/2014 at 08:48:58
Morning people. When is the live forum going.......erm, live? Will be back after breakfast for a day full of rumour, intrigue, surprises, backstabbing, bitching, moaning, groaning, weeping and then, yesssssssssss, get in there’s!!!!
In Roberto I Trust so sees you all later.
Live forum please!!
James Marshall
20 Posted 01/09/2014 at 08:51:34
As I keep saying, it's not just that we have two older centre halves, you have to look deeper into the coaching. We continuously tried to play them offside at the weekend and got caught out time & time again, conceding what looked like shit goals due to individual errors - they weren't. They were collective errors on the part of the back 4 not defending properly as a unit against a team with some of the best movement, and best passers in world football.

Fabregas and Costa had a field-day with the way we set up against them. Massive mistake by the manager which made some of our defenders look like idiots.

We do need someone to replace Distin in my opinion, but that alone isn't the root of our defensive problems at the moment.

Peter Murray
21 Posted 01/09/2014 at 08:25:20
The defensive problems are not just a centre half issue. ItÂ’s about the whole team.

On Saturday from the outset we could not handle the continuous harassment of our players on the ball. From the kick off we were denied our usual game of building from the back. It threw us.

In the first half most attacks broke down too easily and, with marking and tracking from our midfield practically non-existent, pacey Chelsea players broke through us at will putting enormous pressure on our back four.

Jags and Distin, one of the best centre back pairings in the Premiership in recent seasons, will come good again. And with Stones and (a fit) Alcaraz we have enough cover in that position.

What we do need is a class midfielder with the poise and vision to open tight defences – even more necessary when our essentially defensive midfield is not doing its job.

George McKane
22 Posted 01/09/2014 at 08:54:06
For me the Jags/Distin situation did not come up over this weekend. They have been consistently poor for the past calendar year and Disitn even longer.
I am not calling either of them names, booing them or slagging them off its just that sometimes we let sentiment rule our heads and some players go on well past their best and then become the subject of moaning.
Distin has been a great servant but in the past 12 months he has given away points with regularity. Liverpool at home last year and the Arsenal Cup game.
I don’t know why Stones is not playing. I have heard people say, and read it here on TW, that he makes the odd mistake -- well, of course, but as I said Distin’s odd mistakes are getting more and more regular and more and more costly.
We need a strong Leader and a commanding back four man and we have done for some time.
I feel that if we do not sort out the back middle two then it will have a harmful affect on our Season.
Poor defence on Saturday but a great game to watch. Hopefully we can sort things out and move forward.
Derek Knox
23 Posted 01/09/2014 at 08:57:41
Morning boys and girls, have just heard on SSN that the reporter, outside Finch Farm has categorically stated that Shawcross will NOT be an Everton player by the deadline.

Colin, I refer to your " backstabbing, bitching, moaning, groaning, weeping " allusion to TW.

It would be really boring without all that mate. Enjoy your breakfast mate, but don’t have the humble pie.

Colin Glassar
24 Posted 01/09/2014 at 09:06:00
Derek, the shawcross rumours were just that, rumours. It was a good laugh last night especially after someone had tampered with his Wikipedia page.
My predictions for the day? At least two players in. Henen will sign today and Nastasic in on loan. Possibly a surprise loan deal as well. If not, I'm happy with our business this summer and will eat my humble pie with cold custard.
Patrick Murphy
25 Posted 01/09/2014 at 09:01:34
I agree that as a unit and individually some of the defending was awful, I can't however say that the manager's line-up was to blame. The previous week Arsenal created very little until Everton started to give up the midfield and sat deeper giving them the space to dictate the game. What I will agree with is that the players need to put in some tackles in and around the penalty area and in midfield to disrupt the flow of the opponents game, if that means giving a few free-kicks away then so be it but if we don't tackle high quality players we will always suffer by conceding goals.
Carl Peters
26 Posted 01/09/2014 at 09:07:10
Derek, thank fuck for that. Atterweld and Nastastic would do for me though but I canÂ’t see that happening either. Rolando I donÂ’t know much about but we have to find cover for Distin so hopefully Martinez will pull a couple of gems from somewhere.
Jim Bennings
27 Posted 01/09/2014 at 09:03:51
James Marshall

You make a more than valid point about the coaching, that also has to come under massive scrutiny, but I just look at Distin and Jagielka and I don't see any mobility, any leadership, they don't bark orders and whenever a corner or setpiece comes in very rarely does either one of them ever race to meet the ball and attack it, that goes for inside both boxes.

Neither over them are particularly great on the balk but that's not the issue that bothers me.

As I say Stones should be the man who is so comfortable with the ball at his feet which he is, but he needs a total 'no shit' man next to him.

I wouldn't be arsed if Jags or Distin can't pass well as long as they started getting their bonce on more balls that come flying in.

Patrick Murphy
28 Posted 01/09/2014 at 09:14:48
If a midfielder comes in will it result in one leaving? I hope there aren't any real surprises in this direction as that would really set the cat among the pigeons and compound a poor beginning to the 2014-15 campaign.
I can see Mr Shawcross being the one more player that the Dark Side's manager was talking about.
Dan Nulty
29 Posted 01/09/2014 at 09:21:00
Shawcross won’t happen, there is no way stoke will let him go without a replacement. Anyone else remember nafta sic being a disaster the season before last when City had a load of injury problems and United won the league? Him and boyata didn’t have a clue. Not convinced that will solve our problems. Distin looks past it for me, his reactions and positioning on Saturday were a bit Sunday league. We definitely need another centre back though.
Phil Walling
30 Posted 01/09/2014 at 09:09:51
Colin; I demand the right to do all of those things in the cause of free speech. This is no place for the sycophant who post only to glory the car crash that will occur if our 'philosophical' manager doesn't apply some pragmatism to what he laughingly refers to as his defence.

He and his inadequate ex- Wigan backroom team have shown their limitations by their failure to prepare properly for this season (all last year's preparations were in place on their arrival) and we are paying the price big-time.

If the window closes without adding the minimum requirements of another central defender and competent goalkeeper to replace the frankly appalling ex Pie Eaters he has in those positions then gawd help us.

Derek Knox
31 Posted 01/09/2014 at 09:16:13
Colin, you never mentioned Holtby, who I would think would not only be low cost, but also a useful addition, and an Evertonian to boot.

The Henen deal, well erm, I think The Guinness Book of Records team are standing by for that one to be finalised.

Patrick, I agree that the defending has got to be shared as a team, and was lacking in the latter part of the games at Leicester and at home to Arsenal, plus the tiredness thing. However I could not fault anyone against Chelsea (even McGeady) but it was glaringly obvious how poor Jags and Distin were once exposed, even with the team effort.

Let's just hope we get some much needed quality in that area in before 11:00pm, fingers crossed.

David Donnellan
32 Posted 01/09/2014 at 09:08:00
We definitely need a quality centre back to put pressure on our current centre halves, Jags has always had a rick in him for years & never seems to learn from them, he did it again saturday, when he took too much time on the ball & got robbed & Costa nearly scored as a result, he has done the same sort of thing time and again over the years, to be fair he has been a great defender over the years too, but saturday he was far from it. The centre halves weren't alone in our shambolic defensive display though, McCarthy had the worst game I have seen him have in an Everton shirt & Barry wasn't too much better than him.
Attack wise, second highest scoring team in the premier league at this point with seven goals in three games, we aren't looking too shabby in that department & when Lukaku finds his mojo again this could get even better.
My transfer deadline day wish list would be a quality centre back, another attacking/creative midfielder & maybe conclude the Henen deal (one for the future).
Overall its not all doom & gloom, sort the defence out & we could still have a very decent & memorable season.
Gerard Carey
33 Posted 01/09/2014 at 08:53:36
I'm with Jim Bennings on this. We need at least one new centre half. Think Shawcross would be good. Think age has caught up with Jags and Distin. Watched the game again last night and thought Jags decision making was terrible, and with the games coming thick and fast after the break we will need plenty of cover in every position. If we get the defence sorted it could be a good season after all
Carl Peters
34 Posted 01/09/2014 at 09:26:28
Colin I woke up this morning to the Shawcross rumour, I can assure you I wasnÂ’t fucking laughing.
Adam Luszniak
35 Posted 01/09/2014 at 09:14:58
All interesting points and I agree with many of them. I'm not sure however that it is time to start panicking just yet, given that the season is only 3 games old. Yes, defensively we were terrible at the weekend, but hindsite allows us to say that 1 of theirs was offside, another went in off Seamus when it could just have easily gone behind, and a third was down to Besic being extremely naive in his approach to the game. Now that still leaves 3 sloppily conceded goals I'll grant you, and I will admit that defensive errors cost us. That said, form can change and perhaps the international break will help Roberto right the ship? If we buy or loan another defender today, excellent. If not I won't be too worried about our chances this year.
Ernie Baywood
36 Posted 01/09/2014 at 09:24:01
Personally I think the Jags/Distin combination is getting a bit too much airtime in terms of current ability. For our budget we'll do well to significantly improve it. They're not world beaters but they're not being helped by a midfield that isn't yet functioning as it should... which is vital to us when you consider the attacking nature of our full backs.

Despite that, there's no question there's only one way Jags and Distin are going now... They've been on the slide for a couple of years and is not going to get any better. This is the point I was trying to make on another thread recently. We should have had one replacement getting games so that when they come in it doesn't disrupt the unit. Because we don't have that, we pretty much have to go for a CB in his prime with decent PL experience. Strangely, Shawcross was the name I came up with too.

Tony Farrell
37 Posted 01/09/2014 at 08:53:06
As you pointed out craig jags and distin weren't on there own ,yes I admit they were both poor and deserve crititism ; lets be honest jags hasn't been the same since his injury and distan has lost what pace he had ;having said that barry and mcarthy were being past with to much ease and tim howard was imo lucky to escape a red , so lets take the blame as a team with the exceptions of Naismith and Mirallas 'Its a must we sign a proven centreback a keeper and another midfielder Lets get behind bob he will get there .
Sam Morrison
38 Posted 01/09/2014 at 09:26:49
Thought Distin played well against Chelsea myself. Sounds crazy to say it I admit - but if we are pointing fingers then Jags first goal, lino second goal, Seamus freaky accident, Besic gave on of them away, and I think there was an annoying combo of Distin and Baines being eased past for one of them, as they both tried to stop the same man. There was another goal but I've clearly blotted it from my memory. Yes the defence had a panicked air and we gave away two goals extremely cheaply, but the end scoreline was a freak occurrence. To me, Jags is (on current form) the weak link at the back, not Distin. I think he can recapture his previous form though - with the fans you can't win as a centre-back; mistakes get picked up on and not much else.
Brent Stephens
39 Posted 01/09/2014 at 09:10:10
So, Sherlock Glasser retires to his dining room, donned in smoking jacket, pipe nicely billowing smoke, before savouring a plate of eggs benedict washed down with a glass of sherry.

While us mere mortals have to wait for Sherlock Glasser to eventually jump to his feet, don frock coat and deerstalker, stuff magnifying glass into his pocket and set forth for Finch Farm. The curious incident of the football chairman in the night-time?

Come on Glasser! Get moving - it's easy (or whatever that other word is that you use)!

Gavin Ramejkis
40 Posted 01/09/2014 at 09:25:51
The arguments of who this player did this last season and our defence was third best in the premier last season is chip paper, you are only as good as your last game(s) and current form. Our defence has already shipped 10 goals in 3 games which is about as bad as you can get, unless your strike force is banging in average of 4 goals per game its actually relegation form.

The Distin and Jags partnership looks poor, Distin looks to have slowed considerably (as have a few other ageing players) and Jags looks like he cant cope with moving the ball out from the back and looks to be thinking still whilst he should be playing the ball leaving himself wide open to mistakes and having the ball snatched off him in the most dangerous area of the pitch possible.

I've no idea what Stones has done wrong other than poor gameplay when he was pushed out to RB, right now he needs to be put back at CB where he can play this formation and style, Alcaraz isn't the answer to Distin as he too is far too prone to mistakes. Unless we shore up the defence we'd better get bleeding ruthless up front in every game and bang a bagload in

Jim Bennings
41 Posted 01/09/2014 at 09:26:14
It does somewhat bizarre that since Martinez has taken over as manager we have signed just one central defender, and even he didn't cost anything..Antolin Alcaraz.

Now don't get me wrong here I love attacking players coming to us, and I would never ever criticise signing as many as we possibly need but surely after spending over 32 million a central defender should have been part of that?

Yes we knew we all needed a striker which we now have so that's great but Martinez seems to have let the fact we possibly need a creative central midfielder and a centre half pass him by.

He has rectified the wings and hopefully Atsu will provide something similar or better than Deulofeu and we have an ok-ish abundance of forwards but defence and goalkeeper are so vulnerable.

I'm not Howard's biggest fan but if he gets a injury then what?
Robles?

What if Coleman gets injured?

Stones is grossly exposed at right back and then there's just Tony Hibbert who has hardly figured under Martinez.

Then the obvious central defensive problems.

I'm rather surprised by Martinez even leaving it this late to be honest.

For me, the signing of Besic was not a priority, that's not me saying I don't rate him, I haven't seen him properly yet, but I don't think we needed to spend 4 million on another holding midfield player when other priorities needed tended to.

Craig Bellew
42 Posted 01/09/2014 at 09:30:51
Patrick #25 I have been saying the same since the Arsenal game re allowing opponents the time and space in our half to pick out a pass with pretty much the fereedom of Goodison Park to do so. It killed me the amount of times I watched the WHOLE TEAM just sit off and WATCH.

As much as it kills me to say watching that shower yesterday is exactly how opponents whould be addressed ie in their faces from the second they pick up the ball. That lot went hunting in packs yesterday and harried and closed down and pressed on every single occasion just how I expected us to do especially after the Arsenal game.

As I said on a previous thread facing up, closing down, pressing the ball and hunting the opponent down should be a given especially against the teams with the quality of Arsenal & Chelsea. This needs to be addressed and soon.

Something I read this morning from a quote in the red echo from RM stating he wont be bringing in another Centre Half is a bit of a worry to me. He is quoted as saying when asked re the purchase of another centre back “No, I think we have got top defenders in the line-up and top defenders in the squad so I don't think there is any need to bring anyone in those positions.

If this is the case I am worried especially with letting Duffy go.

Kunal Desai
43 Posted 01/09/2014 at 09:48:20
Gavin - The warning signs were sounding out back end of last season. 3 against palace and city and 2 against the Saints. That would be 18 goals conceded in 8 league games.
Ian Burns
44 Posted 01/09/2014 at 09:41:27
Before the season started, I posted an open letter on TW to Mr. Martinez, criticising his pre-season arrangements and I was slaughtered. I fear this is now coming home to roost, although I accept it is early days - but these are early days where we are already losing ground and confidence must have taken a knock.

We appear ill-prepared and Mr. Martinez's naivety on both his pre-season arrangements and his inability to recognise his central defensive pairing is simply not up to the job, is beginning to cost us dear, even at this early stage of the season.

Distin has looked past his best for over a season and Jags, is a good centre back but presently struggling with the system Mr Martinez adopts and with all due respect is never a captain's backside. Where are the Peter Reid's and Kevin Ratcliffe's when you need them?

Everton 3 sounds great - Chelsea 6 sounds as though we've got something drastically wrong and a great many Evertonians on TW know where the issues lay - the question is does Mr. Martinez?

Dave Lynch
45 Posted 01/09/2014 at 09:46:56
Phil@30 has got it spot on for me.

Lack of preparation is a major factor and that is unforgiveable, he spent the summer swaning around Brazil when he should have been working on the team.

I fear we are in for a long frustrating season and frustration IMO is the worst emotion a football fan can experience as it leads to anger and irrational thinking, he had better get that defence sorted by the next derby because I will not be able to take another thrashing off those bastards...

Dan Nulty
46 Posted 01/09/2014 at 09:55:31
Sam, watch distin's movement for the first goal, jags tried to play costa offside and is culpable but Distin just jogs towards the centre of the goal rather than trying to pressure costa and maybe get a diving block in. Just didn't get what he was thinking to be honest. Anyway, wasn't impressed with jags for England either and I think he is on the wain. I'd take shawcross but I just don't see it happening. Might be worth a punt on Richards for extra cover for Coleman?
Patrick Murphy
47 Posted 01/09/2014 at 09:44:30
Jim - A manager can't legislate for what if x or y gets injured if we suffer the number of injuries that some fear we will be extremely unlucky and no manager with our club's resources can provide cover for all possible eventualities. However, I do agree that defenders are as important as strikers and some would say more important. If RM has failed to address a possible defensive problem then he has probably gambled upon his ageing players giving him at least another year of good solid service.

Perhaps in some ways it has been a blessing that the old guard have begun to show their frailties so early in the campaign and I hope that Roberto has enough time and money to address the problem in this window.

All good teams build from the back, especially those that want to be competing for the long haul. Maybe our neighbours success last season has seen a slight seed change in the old-fashioned keep them out first and foremost and then see what happens. I've always adhered to the mantra let defenders defend and creative players create but at the moment Everton's balance is all wrong and they cannot seem to get the team to work in a cohesive way, which tends to lead to errors of judgement which in this league are punished by whoever happens to be the opponents.

I suppose that a transition from safety-first to potent attacking football was always going to have days like we have seen so far this season, but whatever happens, Roberto has to remind all of the players in the squad that it is the responsibility of every member of that squad to make tackles when necessary and stop this constant leave it to somebody else to put their foot in and try and win the ball back.

If as some believe, Roberto is unable to address the defensive side of the game he will pay the price as any manager who can't sort out a reasonable defence will lose too many goals and games for comfort and no supporter likes to see their side shipping goals and losing matches.

Colin Glassar
48 Posted 01/09/2014 at 10:05:29
Lads, there are plenty of CB related threads on here. I thought this was a transfer related thread. I'll get the ball rolling, Riquelme has been spotted in New Brighton eating an ice cream.
Ash Coakley
49 Posted 01/09/2014 at 09:23:33
In all honesty, I can only see a few coming in today. Henen (finally) and a CB on loan – Nastasic would be quality with option to buy. There could also be a few out, Duffy will finalize to Rovers, I do think there could be truth in Gibbo out, though personally I would be looking to keep him as he can do a job for us.

Either way, it will be great close-season’s business with the signings so far and tying down the team’s core to our future. Only worry is possible interest in McCarthy & Mirallas late this window. Avoid loosing them and we can push on from here.

Patrick Murphy
50 Posted 01/09/2014 at 10:10:21
Colin - you have become such a reliable source of information regarding the arrivals and departures there is little point in the rest of us speculating as Guru Glassar will inform us as it happens and far quicker than SSN.
Simon Smith
51 Posted 01/09/2014 at 10:10:45
so no Shawcross but poss Holtby (thought he was cup tied?) on a loan as they say.....watch this space
Derek Knox
52 Posted 01/09/2014 at 10:11:22
Colin#48

Too little information there mate, although appreciated, what flavour ice-cream was Gerry (Hat-trick) Riquelme eating?

Callum McNab
53 Posted 01/09/2014 at 10:17:08
I think the first person I would sign is a bloody fitness coach.
Colin Glassar
54 Posted 01/09/2014 at 10:15:44
Patrick, deal. Derek it was strawberry. Any player who lkes strawberry flavoured ice cream isn't worth it IMO. Now chocolate.........
David Chait
55 Posted 01/09/2014 at 09:43:14
We have missed some opportunities to improve.. Dier, the Dutch CB pairing.. all linked but clear that Martinez thinks this is his pairing for some time.. unfortunately. Maybe based on his comments he has begun to see the light on that combination.
James Morgan
56 Posted 01/09/2014 at 10:16:39
Wow, Falcao to United. Well they will have a fantastic attack but their defence is still shite!
Paul Mackie
57 Posted 01/09/2014 at 10:19:55
Nastasic would be a phenomenal bit of business. Yes, he made some howlers in his début season but the City fans I know said he was rock solid from that point on.
Colin Glassar
58 Posted 01/09/2014 at 10:23:42
Holtby has legs. Live forum please!!!
Mike Keating
59 Posted 01/09/2014 at 09:57:57
Brent @ 39
Let's hope our Sherlock has a good breakfast but stays off the cocaine until after the 11 o'clock deadline
Anthony Jones
60 Posted 01/09/2014 at 10:25:26
Bebeto on loan from his missus. You heard it here first.
Tim Locke
61 Posted 01/09/2014 at 10:29:32
£20m loan for Radamel Falcao to Man U??? Good value
Peter Howard
62 Posted 01/09/2014 at 10:12:01
Colin(48):

I believe heÂ’s signing for Camell Laird.

Colin Glassar
63 Posted 01/09/2014 at 10:28:20
Brent, it was a paltry plate of bacon, eggs and toast washed down with a strong cup of coffee.
Everything is turned on, lights flashing everywhere, being bombarded with messages left, right and centre. Romario has refused to come out of retirement but we are talking to fat Ronaldo.
David Chait
64 Posted 01/09/2014 at 10:31:08
How do you sign a 50m striker on loan! guess pay 10m to 20m or more for the season as a fee and a fortune in wages..
Colin Glassar
65 Posted 01/09/2014 at 10:32:39
Nastasic and Henen looking very likely.
Derek Knox
66 Posted 01/09/2014 at 10:24:37
Colin#58

I certainly hope so, he wouldn't be much use legless, cue Andy Van Der Meyde, but seriously would like him at Everton.

I am not sure as to his value, in crazy transfer terms that is, but can't see it being a King's Ransom either, as he was loaned to Fulham last season.

Now Spurs have Mauricio Pochettino and he obviously doesn't see him as part of his plans, which makes me wonder somewhat, I quite like Pochettino and feel he is a good young manager, but there again I don't know. From what I've seen and heard I do like Holtby.

Paul Baker
67 Posted 01/09/2014 at 10:10:27
If anyone called our squad Â’completeÂ’ hereÂ’s some quick thoughts to prove him absolutely wrong:

1. Offensive midfield – Barkley is the only real choice. If he gets injured, we have a problem, as Ossie is not your typical No 10. Naismith actually can play ’in the hole’ and so does McCarthy (used to play there at Wigan), but they’re not typical offensive mids either. We really could get Sigurdsson: look – Swansea played 3 games, Sigurdsson has 4 assists, speaks for itself.

2. Goalies – Robles doesn’t do anything to gain trust from anybody. Childish mistakes, lapses of concentration, Howard ageing. This department must me addressed very, very soon, if not now, we must consider some changes here.

3. Central defence – Jagielka and Distin were so solid last year, but that’s not the case now at all. Add to that inexperienced Stones, injury-prone and mistake-prone Alcaraz and now you start to see the problem here. One solid centre-back needed fast!

4. Right-back – Coleman is great, but Hibbo is past his years and to be honest never suited Martinez style of football with his left- and right-backs going forward and overlapping wingers. He renewed his contract but I seriously hope Martinez won’t make him a Coleman deputy. We love you Hibbo, but you’re not good enough, sorry. Stones is no right-back as seen in an away Liverpool game last season and recent Leicester game. Browning is even more inexperienced and suited to a centre-back role as well. The conclusion here is simple: if Coleman is injured, we have a big problem.

Changes in those four departments are necessary and inevitable.

Simon Smith
68 Posted 01/09/2014 at 10:35:42
Holtby a no go now talking about someone from Man city on loan
Colin Glassar
69 Posted 01/09/2014 at 10:34:31
That's not going to happen Derek, Hamburg are prepared to buy him while we only offered a loan deal. Left sided MF player to cover Pienaar is a possibility. I think we will get at least three players today. Remember Roberto is like Cool Hand Luke, if it takes till 10.55pm he will wait to get his men.
Colin Glassar
70 Posted 01/09/2014 at 10:38:43
I'd love us to get Milner in on loan at least. He can cover so many positions.
Phil Walling
71 Posted 01/09/2014 at 10:37:32
Callam: We had the best in the business and Martinez moved him on to be replaced by yet another Pie Eating trainer !
Tim Locke
72 Posted 01/09/2014 at 10:34:27
Just watching MOTD 2 extra, great quote from Andy Dunn from the Sunday mirror.

Question from Mark do you expect it, to be very very busy tomorrow?

"I don't you there to be a last blockbuster which we might have expected or anticipated.....like a Radamel Falcao coming in on loan that obviously not going to happen."

Colin Glassar
73 Posted 01/09/2014 at 10:41:37
Micah Richards to fiorentina. Morning Phil, in a good mood today?
Gerard Carey
74 Posted 01/09/2014 at 10:41:55
No centre half been mentioned yet?!
Tim Locke
75 Posted 01/09/2014 at 10:42:38
So Danny W is coming out of OT. The question is where will he go, all signs point to Ars and the London move he wants, but not sure they are that keen, and current £15m quoted.
Colin Glassar
76 Posted 01/09/2014 at 10:46:46
Just woken up Gerard? Nastasic from city mate. Welbeck off to spurs Tim.
Ross Norman
77 Posted 01/09/2014 at 10:41:23
One player who has yet to be snapped up by other clubs in Europe despite heavy interest is Eder Alvarez Balanta. Tim Vickery has stated that he'll possibly be moving clubs during the course of the day, hopefully Roberto Martinez has him in his sights after the defensive horror show over the weekend.

Alvarez Balanta along with John Stones would be a long term defensive solution for the club also providing two ball playing centre halves with the ability to bring the ball out of defence.

The only draw back is that Alvarez Balanta is not the type of physical imposing CB that Sylvain Distin is, as he is under 6 foot. Bruno Martins Indi would have been the ideal replacement but he joined Porto last month. A missed opportunity there.

David Chait
78 Posted 01/09/2014 at 10:44:14
Have to say though.... As good a siging as Falcao is.. they still have no defense...
Derek Knox
79 Posted 01/09/2014 at 10:44:58
Colin#69

Roberto = Cool Hand Luke, eh. Let's hope he doesn't eat too many hard-boiled eggs, could be off putting for any potential transfer negotiations, even with the windows open.

Colin Glassar
80 Posted 01/09/2014 at 10:50:03
A double swoop for Nastasic and Milner plus sealing the deal for Henen and I'd be a happy bunny and could go to sleep until the season starts again.
Colin Glassar
81 Posted 01/09/2014 at 10:53:03
Gotta go to the shop. I'll keep me phone on for any updates.
David Chait
82 Posted 01/09/2014 at 10:49:39
I see Ever Banega joined Seville forthe princely sum of 2.5m Euro.. another player with off field issues it reads..
Man Li
83 Posted 01/09/2014 at 10:56:00
Cleverly again, no way pls...........

https://twitter.com/intent/user?screen_name=ncustisTheSun

Gerard Carey
84 Posted 01/09/2014 at 10:53:30
Thanks Colin, lets hope its a good window, fingers crossed.
Derek Knox
85 Posted 01/09/2014 at 10:56:57
Colin#81

Don't get any Pannini stickers yet, it could all change by 11:00pm and then it's swops, and confusion.

Keep an eye out for any well known footballers, loitering around chip shops and ice-cream vans, there could always be a story there.

Dave Pritchard
86 Posted 01/09/2014 at 10:57:11
Milner would be a great loan signing. He wonÂ’t get many games at City and Barry can give us a good reference. Any substance to your post about him, Colin?
David Chait
87 Posted 01/09/2014 at 11:01:48
Googled Nastasic and it was all Arsenal.!!
Colin Glassar
88 Posted 01/09/2014 at 11:04:54
David, if you google arsenal it should say centre forward!!! That's what they need. Derek, I saw some short arsed fella eating a kebab with a bib on. He looked a bit like Moutinho from a distance.
Colin Glassar
89 Posted 01/09/2014 at 11:10:45
Ben Arfa has turned down a loan deal to Birmingham. Could he be that left sided player?
Bob Heyward
90 Posted 01/09/2014 at 11:10:45
Erm...according to Ian Ladyman, Cleverly wants to come to Everton to be reunited with Martinez. Not sure IÂ’d fancy him, but maybe a McCarthy for Welbeck and Cleverly swap? Hope not. Then again, perhaps CleverlyÂ’s eyeing a Goodison switch on a free next season...

Christ knows, itÂ’ll have to be a free if heÂ’s expecting anywhere near the same wages as heÂ’s currently on (㿨k!!!)

Amit Vithlani
91 Posted 01/09/2014 at 11:11:39
Following the live blog on another site and it appears, wait for it, that Tom Cleverly is being heavily linked with a loan move to us. Can he play CB? Toby Aldeweireld meanwhile seems to be a target for the Saints....

Might be a lively deadline day if the rumour mill is to be believed

Andrew Ellams
92 Posted 01/09/2014 at 11:17:25
IsnÂ’t Aldeweireld to Siants a done deal?

SSN are strongly linking us to Nastasic but claiming Arsenal have made a polite enquiry.

Derek Knox
93 Posted 01/09/2014 at 11:15:13
Colin#88&89

Right. We'll have both of them for starters, okay they'd be shit as Central Defenders but come to think of it, they'd be an improvement on Saturday's dabacle.

Next Please!

Colin Glassar
94 Posted 01/09/2014 at 11:17:43
Amit, Villa want to buy Cleverley but the lad is desperate for a move to Everton. Martinez, closer to home, bigger club etc... Arsenal linked to Nastasic but no way will city agree to that.
Charlie Gibson
95 Posted 01/09/2014 at 11:16:39
Cleverley might be good player under Martinez, but we just bought Besic. Granted, his debut was awful - but he should come good. Midfield options are excellent: Barry, McCarthy, Gibson, Osman, Besic, Barkley, not to mention Ledson coming through. That's the last place we need reinforcements.

Forget Cleverley. We need a young, strong CB first and foremost - Distin is 36 for god's sake; Jags and Alcaraz both 32. All three have their best years behind them. Stones can't do it on his own and Browning/Galloway not ready. CB must surely be top priority.

Patrick Murphy
96 Posted 01/09/2014 at 11:18:24
Phil - I wonder if the fitness coach is literally a pie-eater and has all the players joining in with his regime. There has been a shed-load of tinfoil shipped out of FF in recent months!
Nigel Gregson
97 Posted 01/09/2014 at 11:22:42
ColinG pull out the crystal ball mate. Are we going to sign the mythical ball playing center back ? Candidates : Nastatic, Shawcross, Rolando and Micah Richards ? Are there any more ?
Amit Vithlani
98 Posted 01/09/2014 at 11:24:19
BREAKING NEWS. Roberto spotted in pound land, haggling over a tin of spam. BK in the queue behind him, tightly clutching a pound coin, sneakily eyeing the exit.
James Marshall
99 Posted 01/09/2014 at 11:26:54
Micah Richards is in Florence joining Fiorentina - pictures on Sky sports. Nastasic looks like our most likely addition.
Nigel Gregson
100 Posted 01/09/2014 at 11:29:19
James M - crap I was hoping we get him since he's good cover for right back as well :(
Colin Glassar
101 Posted 01/09/2014 at 11:26:24
Nigel, I'm confident about Nastasic. Looks like utd and arsenal are going to battle it out for big Ron Vlaar leaving us in the clear for the Serb. Shawcross was just someone taking the piss last night, Micah Richards has gone to Fiorentina, Rolando could happen but it sounds like our priorities are a CB (nastasic) and a left sided MF player plus Henen.
Frank Crewe
102 Posted 01/09/2014 at 11:29:07
Holtby has gone back to Hamburg. So much for that one.

@Amit. Could we take the spam on loan with a view to buy?

Amit Vithlani
103 Posted 01/09/2014 at 11:30:17
For those of us not able to get SSN, can we please have an update on which lovelies are presenting the show on deadline day, including full wardrobe description. No need to include anything on Jim White in your bulletin, just having me lunch, thanks.
Derek Knox
104 Posted 01/09/2014 at 11:29:18
Amit#98

I think that sounds more like Piss-trami than spam mate, keep the observations going though, you never know.

Anthony Flack
105 Posted 01/09/2014 at 11:31:52
Riquelme in a cab from John Lennon.....
Phil Walling
106 Posted 01/09/2014 at 11:27:00
Martinez will probably finish up moving Barry back to his old centre-back position and putting the Back-heeler alongside McCarthy.

Gareth was a regular for Villa in the defensive position and is certainly quicker to re-act than either Jags or Sylv.

Colin Glassar
107 Posted 01/09/2014 at 11:32:06
Amit, BK's negotiating a buy one, get one free deal with pound land. Roberto is looking frustrated as its spam sarnies on the menu tonight. No more pizzas at FF as we need to cut down on costs.
Amit Vithlani
108 Posted 01/09/2014 at 11:38:14
Colin 107 judging by BK's waistline the pizzas have all been diverted to the boardroom!
Colin Glassar
109 Posted 01/09/2014 at 11:37:42
Amit, I feel for you. As its TDD on ssn today all the lady presenters will be appearing topless from 1pm. I can give you updates if you want or would you prefer photos? I bet Hayley McQueen has the biggest on show today.
Bob Heyward
110 Posted 01/09/2014 at 11:38:09
Hmmm... has the Duffy deal just been done? I know it was shouted up on Everton sites a few days ago, but Blackburn saying it was just wrapped up.

If so, and considering our defensive ineptitude at the moment, maybe we could have pulled the plug on the deal, kept the lad (for competition if nothing else) as he wasnÂ’t a bad Â’old fashionedÂ’ defender. Anyway, if heÂ’s going, it must mean we have a replacement coming...

Peter Bell
111 Posted 01/09/2014 at 11:40:19
Just waiting for the highlight of the day.
Natalie Sawyer coming on with her low cut top.
Dave Lynch
112 Posted 01/09/2014 at 11:43:26
Apparently Roberto is having none of BK's Spam mullarkey.

He's holding out for a tin of Ye Old Oak Ham and Bill's looking down the back of the car seats for the extra pennies...

Brent Stephens
113 Posted 01/09/2014 at 11:46:14
I thought John Daley was talking to the tin of spam, having eaten Phil Neville on that desert island.
Callum McNab
114 Posted 01/09/2014 at 11:46:21
Well said phil,and boy does it show.i don’t think I have ever seen us so unfit and lack of pace in the side.
James Royston
115 Posted 01/09/2014 at 11:33:56
Age should not matter if you are good enough and remain so. However ours have not achieved that. Last season Stones (who must be given a run to see how good he may be) with Distin combo was pretty good, Stones with Jags a lot less so. It is so obvious that better is needed and perhaps more important we need a strong encouraging personality/captain /leader on the pitch. Hate to say it but someone with a Terry/Gerrard attitude. Personally I also have great reservations about Tim Howard as well and the back up Robles even more doubtful ! Think there will be business today both in & out with hopefully some good surprises???
Colin Glassar
116 Posted 01/09/2014 at 11:50:46
Spamgate at FF is about to go viral. Where's the spam Bill?
Andrew Hawes
117 Posted 01/09/2014 at 11:15:27
IÂ’m not Bill KenwrightÂ’s biggest fan but comments on here constantly blaming him for everything from lack of investment to the price of pies at Goodison Park is quite frankly getting tiresome. Last time I checked, he wasnÂ’t playing defence on Saturday evening or the two games previous to that??

HeÂ’s backed Roberto 100% this season, so if we donÂ’t make Champions League or have the season weÂ’re all hopeful for, can we change the record for once?

ItÂ’s now his fault our defence is leaking goals because he hasnÂ’t invested?? No itÂ’s not! Our defence has been transformed from our strongest point to our weakest point in a matter of 12 months by our manager!

As our chairman spent the summer signing up our major players and shattering our club transfer record, we watched these excellent chairman at other clubs like Crystal Palace, Southampton, and Sunderland basically self-destructing on their own?? There comes a time when we have to stop complaining about what we donÂ’t have and actually expect the extra 20 or 30% some of our current players and manager need to give to fix our current issues.

Jagielka hasn’t just become an England centre half who can’t defend, so no amount of transfer activity will cure this. If it’s a confidence issue, a system issue, or just a complacency issue, it’s down to Jagielka and Martinez to sort it — not Bill fecking Kenwright!!

Brent Stephens
118 Posted 01/09/2014 at 12:09:23
Sky saying Nastasic rules out WHU move but wants to stay at MC to fight for place.
Ernie Baywood
119 Posted 01/09/2014 at 12:06:48
Just saw Odjidja Ofoe (I think that's right) had gone to Norwich.

Pending a work permit... Well they've given themselves plenty of time for it to come through at least.

Bob Parrington
120 Posted 01/09/2014 at 12:10:32
It's all down to you Samuel. The #5 jersey means you're it. Tough luck to have to learn to be a CD at your age. I hear RM is relying on you to score 20 goals this season and to stop another 40.
Jim Potter
121 Posted 01/09/2014 at 12:09:47
Phil - do you like one thing about Roberto? His shoes?

It would be nice to hear something positive from you.

James Morgan
122 Posted 01/09/2014 at 12:07:45
For those of us unable to watch SSN, can people kindly post pictures of Natalie Sawyers frontal assets. Thank you.
Colin Glassar
123 Posted 01/09/2014 at 12:13:20
Nothing is going to happen for a few hours so I'm off to do a few odds and ends. Brent, Barry said the same thing on the last TDD so I wouldn't read too much into that. Laters.
Colin Glassar
124 Posted 01/09/2014 at 12:18:08
The only news I can tell you is that Chairman Bill has gone to the local citizens advice bureau to complain about pound lands refusal to make him a deal for a can of spam. Bill is apparently furious over their refusal to budge.
Nick Wall
125 Posted 01/09/2014 at 12:17:42
Amazes me that even after Martinez said in no uncertain terms yesterday that he would not be signing a CB, so many Everton fans are deluding themselves with the idea that he will !
Harold Matthews
126 Posted 01/09/2014 at 12:22:38
Anyone see that thunderbolt from Leroy Fer. The knee seems to be holding up well.
Andrew Hepburn
127 Posted 01/09/2014 at 12:27:04
Would anyone take Hatem Ben Arfa?
Harold Matthews
128 Posted 01/09/2014 at 12:26:35
Amy Lewis, top Sky news reporter outside Swansea. What a body.
Harold Matthews
129 Posted 01/09/2014 at 12:26:35
Amy Lewis, top Sky news reporter outside Swansea. What a body.
Raymond Fox
130 Posted 01/09/2014 at 12:31:03
No, not with a barge pole.
Frank Crewe
131 Posted 01/09/2014 at 12:33:44
@ Andrew. Not unless heÂ’s secretly a brilliant CB.
Robbie Muldoon
132 Posted 01/09/2014 at 12:31:05
The only thing scarier than Distin and Jagielka at the back is Gareth Barry shoe-horned in there. He has been terrible since snapping Barkley in training.
Phil Walling
133 Posted 01/09/2014 at 12:26:04
Jim @121. Not a lot, I must confess. But then I was probably over-critical of the bloke he replaced. All these guys are full of bullshit and take us for idiots as they utter their perpetual nonsense about Â’philosophiesÂ’ and Â’projectsÂ’.

Simple game now manipulated by the moneychangers and their tame, dissembling managers. Martinez is no better or worse than his peers but errs in believing we are just a bigger Wigan.

James Morgan
134 Posted 01/09/2014 at 12:37:06
Nick Wall, Brendan Rodgers said he wouldnÂ’t sign Balotelli.
Jim Potter
135 Posted 01/09/2014 at 12:50:53
Thanks Phil – at least you’re honest about it.

But ... not even his shoes?

Ryan Rosenberg
136 Posted 01/09/2014 at 12:57:48
Alan Irwin (covering Everton for Sky today) just said EFC have told him that we arenÂ’t in for Nastasic
David Chait
137 Posted 01/09/2014 at 12:58:37
BBC updates (McNulty) listed all the clubs interested in Nastasic and we arent on the list.. just saying
David Chait
138 Posted 01/09/2014 at 13:04:33
I think with Duffy gone now that does pay for Henen...
James Marshall
139 Posted 01/09/2014 at 12:58:18
Nothing doing to day then? Nastasic deal not happening. Well our defending had better sharpen the fuck up ASAP or weÂ’re fucked.
Patrick Murphy
140 Posted 01/09/2014 at 13:03:21
My oh my - This season is turning into a huge disappointment already, first we have played three and won none, then we ship 10 goals as our defence forget the basics and then we get a tough draw in Europe. Now I can accept all of that but what has happened to Colin Glaser since last week? It sounds like he has been making it up all along, Nastasic this Nastasic that and what happens the whole of the media declare we have no interest in him. Is Colin past his sell-by date? Should MK and LL have been quicker to notice his failings as there were signs in pre-season, waffling on about Hoff et al when he really should have been concentrating on club business. If we donÂ’t sign another soothsayer soon weÂ’re all doomed I tell ya.....
David Chait
141 Posted 01/09/2014 at 13:06:33
Even at the start of the window, I felt a striker was the first priority and CB 2nd... I really expected to see a Bruno Martins Indi or De Vrij join us... It probably does seem greedy from an Everton viewpoint when you consider Lukaku signed up, Barry, Besic and Samuel freakin’ EtoÂ’o... We mustn’t forget, whether he wants to or not, Besic can slot in at CB easily, being his most played at position. So we do have cover.
Brian Waring
142 Posted 01/09/2014 at 13:05:51
Nastasic saying he is staying at City and to fight for his place. Villa and Valencia supposedly bid between ٥-9m for Cleverley, but he is holding out for a loan move to us with the option of us buying at the end of the loan.
Harold Matthews
143 Posted 01/09/2014 at 13:09:24
Patrick. YouÂ’ve left out the Giroud thing. He murdered us so we kicked his foot and prevented him from facing our rivals.
Milos Milenkovic
144 Posted 01/09/2014 at 13:11:25
If we sign Cleverley, will that be the end of tactic with two defensive midfielders? We have 4 of them...
Nicholas Page
145 Posted 01/09/2014 at 13:11:56
Patrick, you forgot the nice easy away draw to P3 W3 Swansea City in League Cup.....

Ever get that feeling that Someone really hates us?

Tom Bowers
146 Posted 01/09/2014 at 13:07:20
If It was a knee-jerk reaction, then I would say another good central defender was absolutely necessary after the defensive woes of three games. The fact is, it isnÂ’t... and steps need to be taken. Whilst Duffy hadnÂ’t established himself, he is not now an option and with Alvarez, even if he comes in, how long can he stay clear of injury?

Distin and Jags have been consistent for so long but facts have to be faced: they are making mistakes. Stones has to be given a run out in my opinion as he has class.

But the problem isnÂ’t just the central pairing. The two fullbacks consistently get caught up-field and, whilst they can be quite speedy getting back, there are occasions when teams who are fast on the break will punish you, as happened on Saturday.

Coupled with these problems is the fact that the team as a whole when necessary cannot seem to park the bus as effectively as many other teams do. Getting behind the ball is fine but being quick enough and strong enough to make the challenges is another.

Dare I suggest that Everton become more resilient by being less of an open attacking team, like the old West Ham sides? Maybe so.

Colin Glassar
147 Posted 01/09/2014 at 13:14:44
Harold are you a parrot by any chance or is there just an echo in your computer? Patrick, nothingÂ’s going to happen until after 5pm when the spam sandwiches run out and chairman Bill finishes his Kama Sutra class.

Nastasic had to say that, didn’t he? He’s not going to say "I don’t want to play for fat Sam." Wait for a couple of hours until Pellegrini tells him to fuck off – then we’ll see what happens.

Patrick Murphy
148 Posted 01/09/2014 at 13:21:50
BTW, Colin I don’t think much of your Jesus Sandals – I mean, come on... this is the 21st Century – you should be protecting your toes better man. Get a grip!
Paul Hewitt
149 Posted 01/09/2014 at 13:21:35
Hope I am wrong but I can't see us signing anyone today.
James Elworthy
150 Posted 01/09/2014 at 13:19:52
It looks like nobody is coming in except David Henen, and as he is an 18-year-old destined for the U21 team, then nothing has been done to strengthen the defence.

Jagielka sometimes get praise for last ditch recovery tackles, whilst people overlook his deficiencies. Often he seems out of his depth when up against strikers with a bit of pace or skill.

Even allowing for his odd cock-up while he's still learning, I can't see how Stones could do much worse. As long as he played as CB rather than RB.

Jackie Barry
151 Posted 01/09/2014 at 13:20:51
So we are paying for Lukaku in installments which means we not really spending anymore money than usual but have loads more coming in. Our board somehow make out that we are showing are intentions by spending big! Absolute laughing stock we are.
Brian Waring
152 Posted 01/09/2014 at 13:22:44
There are supposedly a few teams abroad looking at Nastasic, I reckon he will end up there with a team playing in the Champions League.
Patrick Murphy
153 Posted 01/09/2014 at 13:24:48
League Cup tie at Swansea is now scheduled for Tuesday 23 September 7:45pm KO according to OS
Steve Guy
154 Posted 01/09/2014 at 13:26:31
Yobo available having been released by Fenerbache. :-)
Andrew Hepburn
157 Posted 01/09/2014 at 13:30:41
SSN is making me want to shoot myself.
Jackie Barry
158 Posted 01/09/2014 at 13:34:38
Andrew donÂ’t go that far, remember it's just a game. Arrrggghh!
Jackie Barry
160 Posted 01/09/2014 at 13:36:15
Read many reports that we were too skint to even afford Shawcross. WhereÂ’s the money Bluebill?
Brian Waring
161 Posted 01/09/2014 at 13:35:33
So weÂ’ll have Wolfsburg on the 18th, Palace on the 21st and then Swansea on the 23rd.
Conor McCourt
162 Posted 01/09/2014 at 13:33:59
The defender we really need is the monster at Celtic; Virgil Van Dyke. I reckon he would form a great partnership with Stones. Although Nastasic is a great player he is not the beast we need and should we sign him then Roberto will more likely pair him with Jagielka.
Denis Richardson
163 Posted 01/09/2014 at 13:37:32
Hope RMs just keeping his cards very close to his chest, other than Duffy being confirmed to Blackburn, I cannot see a single reference to an Everton transfer on either SSN or BBC....

Not even a hint of a rumour...

Paul Hewitt
164 Posted 01/09/2014 at 13:40:36
Money spent on Lukaku Jackie IÂ’m afraid.
John Hazlewood
165 Posted 01/09/2014 at 13:26:32
Jackie@152, we have been a laughing stock for years – Sky money, Fellaini money and all the other dough that Bill has pocketed etc etc, farce. Kills me, Arteta money trousered, operating costs and other crap from this board. As a shareholder who inherited my Granddad’s original debenture shares from my Dad, I still live in hope.

When I look back on our amazing history it drives me mad, we are being taken for fools. As you rightly say, we are spending very little, like we have done since Bill came in. Depressing, full stop.

But Roberto deserves some backing; I just hope he gets it but I fear the Sky dough and any other income is going where Bill chooses, Holland Park mansion extensions etc.

Harold Matthews
166 Posted 01/09/2014 at 13:43:21
Sky keep rolling out the RS crowd to discuss United.
Carl Peters
167 Posted 01/09/2014 at 13:41:45
Denis there was no hint of anything year and look what happend, be patient itÂ’s a virtue .
Jackie Barry
168 Posted 01/09/2014 at 13:45:41
Modibo Diakite left Sunderland by mutual consent, canÂ’t be any worse than what we have now, right? Who am I kidding, I have never heard of him.
Steven Scaffardi
169 Posted 01/09/2014 at 13:46:46
Have Everton even been mentioned on SSN yet (apart from the Duffy deal)?!
Mike Hughes
170 Posted 01/09/2014 at 13:41:24
I just thought IÂ’d check in briefly to TW. DidnÂ’t really expect any news at this time.

However, will check in again late evening fully expecting our Â’big signingÂ’ to be splashed all over the front page. This is simply the calm before the storm ......

Ste McCoombe
171 Posted 01/09/2014 at 13:50:21
Please nor Cleverly – he’s shite. Championship player at best.
Phil Walling
172 Posted 01/09/2014 at 13:14:25
I think Roberto is too proud to go back on his Â’no more centre-halvesÂ’ statement and will stick with the four heÂ’s got. And thereÂ’s always Barry or Hibbert in an emergency!

After such a profligate summer, we must learn to be grateful and make a positive out of the poor preparation for the season.

You have to see that Roberto was on his holidays and felt it only right to let the players enjoy the same. So the late start will see our lads Â’hitting their strapsÂ’ around November by when every other side will be fooked.

Good times are just round the corner. [HowÂ’s that for optimism?]

Carl Peters
173 Posted 01/09/2014 at 13:47:36
Cleverley holding out for Everton sounds like bullshit to me. Villa have offered him ٟm to sign but he wants another million from Man Utd or heÂ’s threating to come to us on loan.
James Stewart
174 Posted 01/09/2014 at 13:54:09
The Lukaku deal was ٣M per each year of his contract. So we have paid ٣M so far. There should be money left. Shawcross would be a good move.
Jackie Barry
175 Posted 01/09/2014 at 13:54:03
Most World Cup players did the same though by all accounts. I hate the darn World Cup, why does it have to fall right before our season starts?
Frank Crewe
176 Posted 01/09/2014 at 13:54:17
@Steven. More like the calm before the panic!!
Harold Matthews
177 Posted 01/09/2014 at 13:53:42
Swansea, Saints and Hull building big.
Jackie Barry
178 Posted 01/09/2014 at 13:56:29
Man Utd after a defender... Hey, come get one of ours — you know you love Jags.
Jackie Barry
179 Posted 01/09/2014 at 13:58:01
Building big by buying loads of players, or building big by buying quality, there is a big difference. Still more interesting than our final hours in the transfer market.
Peter Bell
180 Posted 01/09/2014 at 14:04:21
Jackie, Jags is from Sale and a lifelong Man Utd fan, he would jump at the chance to join them.
David Chait
181 Posted 01/09/2014 at 14:12:36
I see the live forum is up and running...
Ernie Baywood
182 Posted 01/09/2014 at 14:12:48
WhoÂ’s the blonde on SSN?
Simon Smith
183 Posted 01/09/2014 at 14:15:49
What, the one in the blue?
Harold Matthews
184 Posted 01/09/2014 at 14:08:16
No Jackie. They are signing good players. I believe Keoman is in Portugal right now. Anyone seen Roberto?
Kevin Rowlands
185 Posted 01/09/2014 at 14:12:42
Got a feeling itÂ’s going to be Cleverley plus one surprise.

On another note for everyone screaming about our CB position you do realize that TWO of our CBs are training with England this morning, they canÂ’t be that bad!

Simon Smith
186 Posted 01/09/2014 at 14:20:41
Ernie, I think it's Hayley McQueen.
Phil Walling
187 Posted 01/09/2014 at 14:25:52
HeÂ’s probably having the day off to cover Â’Deadline DayÂ’ for Al Jazeera, Harold!
Steven Scaffardi
188 Posted 01/09/2014 at 14:28:48
Bollocks. Nastasic move denied by a Everton but Cleverly loan rumours gathering ground on SSN.
James Elworthy
189 Posted 01/09/2014 at 14:30:17
I would prefer Welbeck on loan to Cleverley.

Ron Vlaar would be a good buy in January as he is out of contract at the end of the season and he is not fully fit at the moment. He is a bloke who puts his head where it hurts.

I think Distin is not going to be kept on beyond this season, and Stones should be first choice soon over Jags.

Mark Andersson
190 Posted 01/09/2014 at 13:56:52
I have to admit I have become a Phil Walling fan...

Seriously, Phil you have won me over. I just hope you're wrong but somehow my gut feeling is you just might be right.

Callum McNab
191 Posted 01/09/2014 at 14:32:29
Kevin, did you see our defending in the World Cup?
Andrew Hepburn
192 Posted 01/09/2014 at 14:30:55
Does anyone actually want Cleverly? I wouldnÂ’t mind if we didnÂ’t already have adequate cover in that position...... Oh look some news about Falcao.
James Stewart
193 Posted 01/09/2014 at 14:34:40
Welbeck and Cleverly are not what we need; either would be pointless.

Defence, FFS... defence!

Phil Walling
194 Posted 01/09/2014 at 14:37:58
Hey Mark, I hope IÂ’m fooking wrong, mate!
Paul Dark
195 Posted 01/09/2014 at 14:38:29
Colin G: any updates, sir?
Bill Gall
196 Posted 01/09/2014 at 14:04:27
After the defences problems were laid bare for everyone to see on Saturday, the problem that remains is how do we cure it. (a) with very little money left in the transfer kitty, who can we afford to buy who is proven better than we have? Or (b) who can we replace Jags and or Distin with at the club?

Regarding (a), with Blue Bill still in shock from what has been spent this year, I do not think we have enough in the kitty to replace our central defenders with two other quality central players.

Looking at option (b), the only one is Stones who could replace one of the central defenders but, as well as he played last year, he still made a number of mistakes that would have to be accepted during a full season as part of a learning curve. Bringing in Stones, who is more effective on the right side of defence, means Jags is out and that means we only need money for one quality left-sided defender to replace Distin. Who?

The other thing that should happen is that the club should bring in a top defensive coach to assist the Manager in integrating his attacking philosophy with solid defending techniques.(Perhaps an Italian defensive coach?)

After watching some of his games from last season, Alcaraz... no.

Conor McCourt
197 Posted 01/09/2014 at 14:44:40
Yes Cleverly would be great for us and he played his best football under Roberto. He has lost his confidence at Man Utd but that can happen when the fans have turned on you. He would be a much more viable option in the hole than Osman.
Nicholas Page
198 Posted 01/09/2014 at 14:48:24
I don’t think Jagielka is a bad defender, per se, but he doesn’t fit into the RM system. He’s uncomfortable on the ball – been caught in possession a fair few times now – and his passing is pretty average at best. He’s more of a stopper/get-rid defender and it’s a shame because you can see he tries really hard. Distin is a bit more, err... cultured but doesn’t really fit either.

Both worked well under Moyes. RM needs to get his own men in, and have the bollocks to drop his favourites (Christ, not that word again). So ideally, someone in today would be a good start.

Phil Walling
199 Posted 01/09/2014 at 14:53:14
Does anyone know if the cut-off date for transfers is any different in Russia and Scandinavia is any different as I seem to remember it has been in the past?
Matt Traynor
200 Posted 01/09/2014 at 15:00:48
Phil, thereÂ’s different times during the day in different countries, IÂ’m not sure if thereÂ’s different dates though within the Uefa Confederation.

I’m not actually sure what applies if we were to try to sign a player from Germany (closes at 6pm I think) at 8pm our time – within our window but outside of theirs.

(ThatÂ’s not a hint by the way; IÂ’ve heard nothing all day. Relying on Mr Glassar.)

Chris Gould
201 Posted 01/09/2014 at 15:09:35
It has always been different in Russia, which has allowed English teams to buy from there after our window has shut.
James Elworthy
202 Posted 01/09/2014 at 15:10:45
I think we should in hindsight have gone for Lescott, excellent in the air and scores you a few too – unlike our present central defenders.

So what, he left for big money? – Who wouldn't leave their job to get more money elsewhere?

James Morgan
203 Posted 01/09/2014 at 14:30:10
Kevin, using being an England player as a benchmark for quality is like saying your Primark underpants are Calvin Kleins.
Steve Brown
204 Posted 01/09/2014 at 15:14:13
Phil 201, don't worry the transfer window doesnt close in Anchorage Alaska until 6am UKT tomorrow. Plenty of time yet.
Andrew Hepburn
205 Posted 01/09/2014 at 15:23:33
I thought if a countries transfer windows is open it means they can buy players. It does not mean they can sell a player to a team in a country where the windows is closed.
Ray Roche
207 Posted 01/09/2014 at 15:34:02
I imagine Henen is being saved for the last minute so Bill can say, "Look, we've brought in another new player!"
Mark Andersson
208 Posted 01/09/2014 at 15:35:41
Henen can only be signed if we have a time machine that can go back in time 48 hours times about 6 times
Nicholas Ryan
209 Posted 01/09/2014 at 15:35:12
Anthony Flack 105 .... Did you say Riquelme in a cab WITH John Lennon ... now that would be something ... particularly with David Henen driving!
Jim Bennings
210 Posted 01/09/2014 at 15:38:51
Henen?

What's the point he's only going to play in the U-21's anyway, we won't see him this season.

If he was that good don't people think we'd have rushed to sign him by now.?

Harold Matthews
211 Posted 01/09/2014 at 15:44:46
Judging by the interviews, our oldies are sticking together.
Kelvin Thomas
212 Posted 01/09/2014 at 15:48:32
Greg OÂ’Keefe understands that weÂ’re after cover for S. Pienaar. He suggests that Cleverly is the answer. Cleverly?

Cleverly as a long term replacement for Osman as a forward thinking CM I can understand. Cleverly to play in PienaarÂ’s position? Sorry Greg, even suggesting this doesnÂ’t make much sense.

Christopher Wallace
213 Posted 01/09/2014 at 15:44:55
Jim

You could say the same about Eric Dier... he certainly looks 'that good', but we failed to sign him.

Steve Jenkins
214 Posted 01/09/2014 at 15:49:39
What's the latest from Everton? Sky Sports News reporter Alan Irwin is there and says: "Fans beginning to gather as Everton hope to complete maybe one major deal on deadline day."

From the sky sports news transfer centre site about an hour ago.

Major would suggest to me a , established, recognised player on a permanent signing for a fairly substantial fee.

Does that mean just one deal altogether... one recognised 1st team player

or just one deal & potentially Henen....

or does it mean just one recognised player and Henen who'll go into the development squad....

Regarding the "MAJOR", is it - one permanent transfer... one loan... this is so open it can mean too many things.

James Elworthy
215 Posted 01/09/2014 at 16:13:09
The crowd gathering outside of Finch Farm looks more like a bunch of young kids and a fat guy who obviously should be In work or at least jogging to lose some of that weight.

I think Cleverley on loan will be it and maybe Henen. Let's hope a loan signing of a decent centre back too.

Frank Crewe
216 Posted 01/09/2014 at 16:05:39
@Christopher215. Would that be the same Eric Dier who got run ragged by the RS and gave away a penalty? I don't think we missed out on much there.

You know. Every player costs a fortune these days but doesn't mean they're all potential superstars. They're just overpriced and it's a seller's market.

So clubs smile, hold their nose, and pay up – even though they know they're being ripped off. Especially when buying is left to the last minute and they're desperate. Like we are now.

Steve Jenkins
217 Posted 01/09/2014 at 16:12:16
Just found this about 15 mins before the last one I posted.

"Alan Irwin reports from Everton's Finch Farm training ground on a potential loan move for Manchester United midfielder Tom Cleverley and says the club have denied making a swoop for two Premier League defenders."

Cleverly – another CM, wtf? We need CB's & winger.

Christopher Wallace
218 Posted 01/09/2014 at 16:22:16
Frank

Same happened to Stones last year... should we just get rid of him as well??

Mertesacker was also ripped apart by RS before winning the World Cup. You can't judge a player by one game, especially when his team mates are hopeless.

Dier definitely looks a player. He was thrown straight into a dodgy spurs team, but started with 2 clean sheets and 2 goals. He looks very good on the ball and has plenty of pace. He will grow into a great CB in my opinion, as well as cover for RB.

Scott Hamilton
219 Posted 01/09/2014 at 16:28:29
Benni McCarthy has just been seen buying half chips-half rice and curry sauce at 'Lucky's Blue Dragon' on Goodison Road...
Denis Richardson
220 Posted 01/09/2014 at 16:25:28
Really don’t understand what Cleverly would bring to us, we don’t need anymore midfielders. If we’re going to sign a midfielder we need one who is creative and can string some through balls to the strikers – ie, a poor man’s David Silva (as we can’t buy the real thing). Clevelely is not that!

In McCarthy, Barry, Gibbo and Besic, we have enough CMs. What we don’ have is creativity.

And please no Wellbeck either, in Lukaku and Eto’o, with Kone to come back, use the wages and loan fee for a ...............D E F E N D E R!

Jay Harris
221 Posted 01/09/2014 at 16:27:38
As I see it, the problems are with the spine of the team.

Jags has always been a player who needed confidence to play at his best and the World Cup media witch-hunt has destroyed his confidence IMO.

It hasn't exactly helped Bainesy either but the other major problems I see are McCarthy is either unfit or his mind is somewhere else and Lukaku can't seem to hold the ball up most of the time.

The problem is with the likes of Chelsea and Arsenal followed by Man Utd and the RS, it does not give us games where they can rebuild that confidence and rhythm.

I thought Stones and Distin were our best central pairing last season so I would give that another try and accelerate Galloway's progress to eventually take over Distin's role.

I am not expecting anything exciting today. I think we may end up with Cleverley but IMO that will complete RM's portfolio of bad buys.

Linda Morrison
222 Posted 01/09/2014 at 16:20:30
I was thinking about our defence, or lack of it at times, for a while.

Now I know most people on here may not agree with me but I think since we sold Fellaini to Man Utd, we can't defend set pieces. He used to defend corners from the opposition and also scored goals. I think we should try to get Big Hair back on loan if we can.

In the modern game, players are now expected to fulfil a number of roles and this means being exceptionally fit. I'm afraid that Jags has not been this for a long time... and others, Distin especially, and Barry, are covering for him. We need additional players so selling Gibson would be daft

I'll be surprised though if we get any additions today which would be a shame.

Conor McCourt
223 Posted 01/09/2014 at 16:36:15
The Echo reporting we are in for Rolando for 10 million euros.
Frank Crewe
224 Posted 01/09/2014 at 16:27:37
I don't particularly rate Stones. He has that 'thick as a brick' look about him. Barkley has it as well.

Mertesacker got ripped apart several times last season and he makes Jags look like The Flash yet he's still in Arsenal's and Germany's first eleven and for all the hiding they got, including the one we gave them, they still finished in the top 4.

Chelsea caught us cold with 2 quick goals. Maybe if they hadn't done that, the score might have been different and we wouldn't be on Jagielka's back so much now.

Personally I don't care who we get because it won't make any difference. We won't make the top 4 while our arses point at the floor. Pienaar and Barkley are out already and we've only played 3 games. I doubt the injury situation is going to improve in the coming weeks. So unless RM is planning on bringing in 10 players in the next few hours we are going to struggle this season. Not relegation struggle but mid-table at best.

Dominic Tonge
225 Posted 01/09/2014 at 16:44:00
Any news?
Christopher Wallace
226 Posted 01/09/2014 at 16:39:40
Linda

Fellaini could not play CB and I wouldn't want to find a place in the team for him for the sole purpose of defending set pieces.

Our defence could not defend in a straight line on Saturday and our CBs were miles apart on far too many occasions. Fellaini wouldn't fix this either.

Mark Andersson
227 Posted 01/09/2014 at 16:37:04
Sort (221) that made me laugh, I forgot about half chips and rice and curry, as I now live in Australia and they think HP sauce is too spicy. Too many shit ex-Wigan players already.
Steve Jenkins
228 Posted 01/09/2014 at 16:43:18
Denis 222

Spot on agree your post, a player in the Nolito mould is what we need.

We have many similar players to Cleverley already.

Also, doesn't Cleverley have like 1 year on his contract to run where you can sign him for free. I'll be pissed if we spend decent coin on him, when we could spend that on someone else and sign Cleverley (if Roberto wants him) on a free in 6 months.

Kelvin Thomas
229 Posted 01/09/2014 at 16:45:36
So it looks like Cleverly and Henen!
Linda Morrison
230 Posted 01/09/2014 at 16:54:32
Chris, I know Fellaini could not play at CB, but I can't see Barry playing all the games that we may have and where does that leave us?

All players have dual roles, but for the life of me, I can't see the point of Cleverley – especially with his wage demands.

Christopher Wallace
231 Posted 01/09/2014 at 16:56:50
Agree about Cleverley Linda, don't see the point either. He was very good at Wigan, so I'm sure RM is a fan. He just won't add anything, other than an extra body/cover.
Phil Walling
232 Posted 01/09/2014 at 16:51:12
Mark @229: to that statement you can add 'ex Wigan coaches and fitness gurus ' as well.

The trouble with virtually all football managers is that they like to work within their own comfort zone as well as provide employment for everyone who has deferred to them at previous clubs. Thus we end up with half of Wigan when OFM took 'his mob' to Old Trafford. Pathetic.

David Hallwood
233 Posted 01/09/2014 at 16:53:40
Scott (#221) I wonder what number heÂ’ll want
Ray Roche
234 Posted 01/09/2014 at 17:03:03
Phil, I agree with you and Mark, regarding what we are laughably referring to as "fitness gurus" who were imported from Wigan, however, OFM's little band of rascals didn't last long at Old Toilet either. Still, we always looked fit with Moyes regime. And that's all the credit he'll get for now.
Si Cooper
235 Posted 01/09/2014 at 17:04:40
Phil, I've taken the liberty of rewriting your last comment as if it were done by someone without an axe to grind:-

'The situation with virtually all football managers is that they like to work with people they know and trust and therefore tend to provide employment for those who have worked well with them before. Thus we end up with half of Wigan when OFM took 'his mob' to Old Trafford. Nothing too unusual in that.'

Steve Brown
236 Posted 01/09/2014 at 17:13:10
Royston Drenthe to the Owls.
Steve Brown
237 Posted 01/09/2014 at 17:13:39
I preferred Phil's version.
Mark Andersson
238 Posted 01/09/2014 at 17:04:12
Phil, I bought into RM for the first 6 months and was side tracked by the way Moyes left and all the other shite that filled TW for months. I think this season will show if our new manager has learnt from his days at Wigan.

Maybe he turned down the Redshite job because he knew he would be found out, took this job knowing that he would have more time. What he has underestimated is the fans' knowledge.

Going to be a more interesting season than the last...

Ray Roche
239 Posted 01/09/2014 at 17:20:26
@239. Jimmy must be breaking his heart...
Mark Murphy
240 Posted 01/09/2014 at 17:16:26
"The Echo reporting we are in for Rolando" — anyone else hoping the journo is dyslexic??

10 minutes before I can go home and waste my own time instead of my bosses watching this space....

Steve Jenkins
241 Posted 01/09/2014 at 17:25:26
Quick google

http://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/505866/Porto-s-Rolando-poised-for-8m-Everton-move-after-agent-arrives-at-Finch-Farm

Joseph Terrence
242 Posted 01/09/2014 at 17:28:06
I can already see it: 10:50pm Cleverley moves to Everton for... wait for it... James McCarthy with another 3 million squid going Everton's way!!!
Steavey Buckley
243 Posted 01/09/2014 at 17:32:24
The poor defensive showings by Jagielka and Distin have thrown the last minute transfers into chaos; that have forced Roberto to look for CB cover; instead of strengthening other positions.
James Elworthy
244 Posted 01/09/2014 at 17:36:28
Henen going to Olympiakos as Everton have dawdled too long.
Si Cooper
245 Posted 01/09/2014 at 17:22:45
It appears you have your acolytes Phil, but personally I find your skewed perspective and sourness increasingly unpalatable.

TW has always benefited from having some contrary characters, but bile and misery are destroying any wit or wisdom your posts may contain.

People questioning apparent moves for another midfielder need to answer these questions:

1) Has there been any recent updates on how long Ross Barkley will be unavailable?
2) Is Darron Gibson actually capable of playing the defensive midfield role as it is defined in the current system which is intended to give the full backs more freedom to get involved in attack?
3) Is Gareth Barry able to hack it against the very best attackers and very mobile attacking midfielders?

It is clear that until the last three games the manager did not see another central defender as a priority, and three weeks ago there are not that many who would have strongly disagreed with him. I think the sale of Duffy was intended to free up some funds for the acquisition of a central defender who will actually improve on the quality of what we had. Whether it comes to fruition at this late stage is another matter, but it shouldn't stop players being brought in in other positions if the manager wants them for now or the near future.

Si Cooper
246 Posted 01/09/2014 at 17:43:14
James, where did you get that information from?
Ray Roche
247 Posted 01/09/2014 at 17:48:12
Si, It's on the "Newsnow" website, Olympiakos have expressed an interest.
John Daley
249 Posted 01/09/2014 at 17:51:59
"I don't particularly rate Stones. He has that 'thick as a brick' look about him. Barkley has it as well.......unless RM is planning on bringing in 10 players in the next few hours we are going to struggle this season".

Still, are either imbecilic enough to make sweeping statements that will probably be rammed down their throats in six months time?

Why would anyone not 'particularly rate' Stones as a player? Even a contorted Columbo with knees wrapped round his chin whilst cracking one off into his non-cyborg eye can see clearly the natural talent and potential the lad possesses.

Motherfucker could look like the Team America version of Matt Damon and it still wouldn't provide the slightest indication of his actual footballing intelligence. Writing the season off after just three games on the other-hand? That's like Hermann Munster scrawling 'meff' on his massive wheelie bin of a forehead just to make sure there's been no misunderstanding.

Raymond Fox
250 Posted 01/09/2014 at 17:26:36
Some very short memories on here, in case you forgot we finished 5th last season and enjoyed the football + some records!
By the way with the same manager, and the so called 'shite' backroom staff.

Give over, we have drawn away at Leicester (who have just drawn with Arsenal) a draw with Arsenal who will finish top 4, beaten by probable Champions Chelsea and yet to read some you would think we are a disaster area, what crap.

Of course Phil with his pathological hatred of anything Wigan jumps on any so called setback and some other poor judges join in the chorus, what do they say about empty vessels!

Patrick Murphy
251 Posted 01/09/2014 at 17:53:29
Screw it Roberto bite the bullet man - Send Robles, Kone and Alcaraz out on loan to a club of their choice, send your pie-eating mates back to Wigan or your previous club Swansea, swap McCarthy for Fellaini and Bob's your uncle you will get a couple of 'Evertonians" to like you a bit more, but then again I believe they don't want anybody managing the club - I wonder if Suntan Bob or that Theatre Bloke have any spare time it shouldn't take too much of their time just pick 11 players at random and hey presto all will be right with the world as long as there are no connections to George Orwell or Uncle Joe's mint balls or Wigan Casino etc etc.
John Daley
252 Posted 01/09/2014 at 17:59:12
"Is Darron Gibson actually capable of playing the defensive midfield role as it is defined in the current system?"

The answer is fairly obvious when you can't help but wonder if the last twelve words of the question are even necessary.

Harold Matthews
253 Posted 01/09/2014 at 17:57:41
I'd like Stones in the middle of the park in the Matic role. A mobile athlete, he can head, tackle and carry the ball and should have a great future. I tend to prefer 24/29yr olds at the back where experience and anticipation are key. There are exceptions to the rule of course, and people are saying good things about Galloway.
Peter Morris
254 Posted 01/09/2014 at 18:16:15
All this stuff about Jags and Distin...remember, we defend as a team and they have been left woefully exposed by an undermanned and flat footed midfield IMO. As I said on another post, for the time being I'd sacrifice one of the two wingers and beef midfield up with either Besic or Gibson.James McCarthy got skinned twice on Saturday for Chelsea goals(He's not a quick turner and gets caught on his heels quite a lot, for all of his undoubted industry) and Besic and Lukaku gave suicidal passes away that led to goals, neither of which could be blamed on either CB. The only thing I think can be rightfully laid at the CB's door was Jags getting the offside wrong for the first goal.
Conor McCourt
255 Posted 01/09/2014 at 18:31:25
I hope some of the Swansea fans don't react to the first three games like some of our fans do on here, otherwise they will be looking forward to their first premier league title win. We have played two of the top three teams in the league and we got punished severely against Chelsea for trying to get back in the game after a very disappointing start. Roberto has obviously taken the decision during the summer to ensure our players get enough rest after the world cup so as we are prepared for a long season including the extra demands of the Uefa Cup. Yes it seems to have backfired in the short term but in the past after World Cups many teams have struggled in the league due to fatigue the following season. We wont play teams with the quality of Arsenal and Chelsea every week so these dissenters on here who were so positive last season should not be so fickle after only three games when nothing has gone our way.
Andy Boyer
256 Posted 01/09/2014 at 18:44:41
@John Daley, class that one mate, also lots of stupid bollocks getting written on here, mostly about RM and Staff, short fucking memories you lot - perhaps you'd prefer OFM back and a perpetual 7th place or lower, no Europe finish.......Christ.!!!!!
Tom Hanrahan
257 Posted 01/09/2014 at 18:52:16
Tom Cleverley... oh say it ainÂ’t so!!

Sell Lukaku for a loss now! He hasnÂ’t done anything in 3 games (okay maybe the pass to the Scottish Messi!) but wonÂ’t be worth 㾶 million next May!!

We need a centre-back!!

Kelvin Thomas
258 Posted 01/09/2014 at 19:05:33
Welbeck off to Arsenal.
Mark Dunford
259 Posted 01/09/2014 at 19:01:15
Agree completely with Peter (259) - we need to bolster midfield and the only way to do this by sacrificing either Mirallas or McGeady from the starting line up. Latter for me as Mirallas is more versatile though they're both talented players
Si Cooper
260 Posted 01/09/2014 at 19:09:52
True John, only posted that because a lot seem to think he is one of those whose presence means we don't need another midfielder. I may prefer us to get players in other positions but I am not complacent that another midfielder won't be needed at some stage of this season.
Karl Masters
261 Posted 01/09/2014 at 18:56:47
Fellaini back on loan? Now that is an intresting thought.

Darren Fletcher been spotted at a Petrol Station in Tuebrook.

Harry Redknapp's car window been seen on a Mercedes in the Goodison Park Car park?

David Henen chained to a radiator in the Lebanon for 5 years?

The leading scorer in the Bolivian second division is currently on the M1 racing to get to Finch Farm before the deadline?

Where's all the fun gone?

Denis Richardson
262 Posted 01/09/2014 at 18:45:55
Si 249 - vaguely understand you point but am a bit confused with your 3rd question:

3) Is Gareth Barry able to hack it against the very best attackers and very mobile attacking midfielders?

Well, simple answer to that is I fooking hope so given we just gave him a 3 year contract barely a month ago!

I presume your midfielder comment is related to people on TW being underwhelmed by the Cleverly rumours. Question I'd ask is, assuming we do sign Cleverly (seriously hope not), where exactly is he supposed to play and what does that mean for Besic? He's not an AM and Barry/McCarthy will play most games presumably.

Steve Jenkins
263 Posted 01/09/2014 at 19:19:07
Cleverley's looking v likely according to SSN.

It looks increasingly like that Tom Cleverley will not be a Manchester United player come 11pm tonight. Aston Villa had been linked with the England midfielder but Everton are now the front runners for Cleverley's signature. Alan Irwin is at their Finch Farm training ground and reports United are looking to broker a permanent deal for the 25-year-old.

We can get him for free in 6 months, so I really hope if its permanent we don't pay too much for him.

Drew Shortis
264 Posted 01/09/2014 at 19:14:06
Not looking massively hopeful so far. A loan for Cleverly who we don't particularly need but would give us more depth and a bid for a Portuguese defender I can't track down any information about on the internet.

I'm not panicking just yet though. I remember the window last summer looking just as slow just before we got McCarthy, Barry and Lukaku in who wasn't even a faint blip on the radar until very late on. Still the possibility of an unexpected one in!

Geoff Evans
265 Posted 01/09/2014 at 19:04:22
Don't panic Mr Mainwaring.
Mike Hughes
266 Posted 01/09/2014 at 19:29:02
Within the next 3.5 hours, the 'big one' will arrive ......

My foot is itching.
The hairs on the back of my neck are stood on end.
The TV came on of its own accord.
The broadband middle light keeps flashing the traditional EFC colours of blue then amber.
My pot noodle - which I made over half an hour ago but forgot about - is still hot (ish).

Signs.

(If it's poltergeists again I'll be bloody livid).

Jim Bennings
267 Posted 01/09/2014 at 19:36:52
I suppose if Cleverley does arrive it will again give us more options.

It also must mean that Martinez has doubts over Gibson's long term future and fitness.

Whoever we sign, IF we sign anyone, then as ever it will be welcome.

Dom Ungi
268 Posted 01/09/2014 at 19:39:25
IÂ’m thinking, after Arsenal rubbished reports of a deal for Welbeck, and Tottenham are said not to be after anyone else, that we will sign Henen, a defender (possibly Rolando, Shawcross or Nastasic) on a permanent deal or a loan for Rolando. I also think we will get Welbeck on loan and Cleverly permanent. According to Sky, Everton are at 25/1 to get him; he is well worth a fiver!!
Karl Masters
269 Posted 01/09/2014 at 19:43:44
Mike Hughes - Pot Noodle? I can tell you like to make a special occasion out of Transfer Deadline Day, you decadent devil!
Phil Walling
270 Posted 01/09/2014 at 19:21:34
Totally agree with your point @ 258, Peter. Our much abused central defenders HAVE BEEN woefully exposed by the rest of the team. Whilst it is true Jags has been 'off the boil' since last season's injury - both for England and Everton (he should not be involved in next week's International !) and Sylvan is busting his arse to cover for him.But you don't go from hero to zero in no time at all. If Martinez continues to prefer him over Stones - who looked most accomplished whilst deputising last season - then he should train and organise his defence to cover his (hopefully) temporary deficiencies.

Instead he sends the team out with a gung-ho attacking approach and expects the centre two to sort it all out when the opposition respond. Of course, the reality is that anyone who studied Wigan will know, neither he nor his minions have a clue about defending and whilst you may get away with it in the frenetic atmosphere of a cup-tie, the Prem will always find you out.

This is the price Everton are paying for buying into the Martinez philosophy that beautiful football will always prevail. The truth is that as Harry Catterick told Keith Newton so long ago, ' we didn't win the league by pissing about it, we got it to Bally !

Kelvin Thomas
271 Posted 01/09/2014 at 19:41:14
Cleverly isn't as bad as people make out. He could prove to be a shrewd signing.
Point to prove, RM will get the best out of him etc.
If its true that he is out of contract in the summer you can't blame Manure for wanting a permanent transfer.
Mike Hughes
272 Posted 01/09/2014 at 19:46:39
I like to push the boat out now and again Karl.
Christmas, Easter and the like.
Mike Hughes
273 Posted 01/09/2014 at 19:53:13
I don't know much about Cleverly but if the other front runners for his signature are indicators of his level then I can't say I'm that impressed (Villa, Hull and QPR).
Eugene Ruane
275 Posted 01/09/2014 at 19:51:50
Sexy female radio jock from The Warriors.

"Hey all you ToffeeWeb 'iffers' who can't wait until 11.00om and are iffin and what-iffin all over the town, this one is goin' out specially to yooooou"

Link

Trevor Lynes
276 Posted 01/09/2014 at 19:53:48
I would not be excited at all by the acquisition of Cleverley. He was pretty average against MK Dons and nowhere near the ability of Henderson at Liverpool. He seems to be another flatterer only to deceive and has not come on at all IMO. I reckon we should keep the money rather than waste it on Cleverley.

LetÂ’s hope that Roberto can tap his magic wand and spirit up a deal or two before the window closes. The players being touted are scraping the barrel and not worth signing by any club with real ambitions.

Kelvin Thomas
277 Posted 01/09/2014 at 19:57:38
Mike#277
According to posts on TW today and recently Gibson is a crock, Barry hasn't got the legs, McCarthy and Besic aren't good enough since cheslki. Therefore we need Cleverly!
Who do people expect in Midfield?
Dom Ungi
278 Posted 01/09/2014 at 20:01:45
Eugene #279 — Hahahaha... I’ve been up redecorating and watching SSN since 9am — this page is far more entertaining!
Danny Kewley
279 Posted 01/09/2014 at 20:02:22
Telly Savalas at his cringeworthy beast there!
Mike Hughes
280 Posted 01/09/2014 at 20:00:32
Beautiful song, beautiful voice.
(I think there's something in my eye).

Kelvin Thomas
281 Posted 01/09/2014 at 20:01:49
On my way to the shops to buy a couple of Pot Noodles. Chicken and Mush and a curry one, french stick plus a packet of Monster Munch with Kate Abdo until 11:00 pm.
John Paul McGurk
282 Posted 01/09/2014 at 20:04:49
Please, not Cleverley.
Andy Meighan
283 Posted 01/09/2014 at 17:35:57
I’m only watching it to get a blimp of Natalie Sawyer’s plunging necklines, her and the luscious Hayley McQueen – now that’s what I call a pairing.

I couldnÂ’t care less if we donÂ’t sign anyone. Well... maybe thereÂ’s a centre-half out there somewhere who could do a better job than Jagielka. Oh and a forward coach to teach the lumbering Lukaku how to trap a bastard ball!

Danny Halsall
284 Posted 01/09/2014 at 20:08:31
Boring this like. Don't really understand the logic behind a deal for Cleverley. Very average from what I have seen. We are well covered in midfield, don't understand why we haven't tried to get at least one centre half in.

I will keep watching until 11 but I wouldn't be surprised if we got nobody else in

Karl Masters
285 Posted 01/09/2014 at 20:11:07
It's a slag of a meal, Mike! You dirty b........ :)
Jim Knightley
287 Posted 01/09/2014 at 20:12:36
Cleverly would not be a bad signing: An unwanted confidence stricken player will not perform to potential . There have been plenty of great players who look poor when the crowd, and media, gets on their back, and Cleverly has had it worse than most. He can be a good signing for us.

Re. our defensive worries: We need time to settle, as our pre-season left us behind other teams. Come next match we will be as fit as we need to be, and will improve. That said, Martinez has something to prove: Can he buy, and develop, good defenders? Can his teams play defensive football well, or was last season a legacy of the excellent defensive buys, and organisation, of the Moyes era? Martinez motivates players, and gets his players to attack very well: There are still question marks over the defensive side.

Karl Masters
288 Posted 01/09/2014 at 20:21:49
Henen deal a right muckin fuddle! Something very strange about all that - did we suddenly lose our desire to sign him and nobody had the balls to say so?
David Harrison
289 Posted 01/09/2014 at 20:22:34
Wot, no Henin
Mike Hughes
290 Posted 01/09/2014 at 20:24:40
People have been saying we need a hard man in the team.

Maybe it's Nathan Cleverly we're in for?

(Tony Bellew would be furious).

Tom Bowers
291 Posted 01/09/2014 at 20:27:36
Cleverly will not improve on what we already have at Goodison. There are stronger, quicker, better tackling players out there... but, if the likes of Osman can get regular outings, then I suppose Cleverly could – which just leaves the quality of the Everton midfield somewhat less than is required for the top tier.

It would have been better to have brought Rodwell back.

John Voigt
292 Posted 01/09/2014 at 19:35:41
IÂ’m a Yank, I live in North CarolinaÂ… I have followed ToffeeWeb for a couple of years; this is my first post.

Everton are my favorite Premier League team. I started watching during the Landon Donovan loan spells. I do check in on Tim Howard too.

I was really pleased to see Roberto Martinez come on board and IÂ’m a huge supporter of him and what heÂ’s done.

The #1 thing heÂ’s done is bring his positive outlook and his belief that his teams can get results against any team. 72 points last season was more than impressive for a team that has less than half the budget of the big teams. To really vie for a Champions League spot, you need to score more than the 61 goals Everton scored last year; 70+ goals and a goal difference of +30 are targets you need to shoot for to finish top 4.

This transfer window Roberto Martinez has prioritized scoring more and I agree with him... I was really bummed when Everton blew the 2-0 lead against the Gunners and I missed the first 5 minutes of the Chelsea game when the TV station that was supposed to carry the game showed a college football game instead (that doesnÂ’t happen in the UK!). I had to watch the Chelsea game off my iPadÂ…

I, like most of the posters to ToffeWeb, was hoping for a big central defender signing. Maybe one will come but it doesnÂ’t look likely. The business Roberto Martinez has done for a club the size of Everton in the 14-15 months heÂ’s been on the job is about a 99 on a scale of 1 to 100. Last season, he bought three or four really good players that fit his style of play. He got loan deals for Lukaku, Barry and Deulofeu. This summer, heÂ’s spent the bulk of his money buying Lukaku, Berry and EtoÂ’oÂ… Besic and Atsu could be good value too.

The other thing to consider is only one regular Everton player (Fellaini) has left the team since Bobby has come to town. The players have definitely bought into his positive style of play. EtoÂ’o would never had considered Everton if the style of play was the stodgy defensive system played by MoyesÂ…

Convincing Baines to stay under the Man Utd pressure last summer was impressive; holding up the sale of Fellaini and then extracting 㿈 million from Man Utd was even more impressive.

I really think if "Bobby" had the cash, there would be defenders already onboard. The funds went to buying a striker who has scored 17 and 15 goals in his first two Premier League seasons. (Only Suarez has scored at least 15 both of the last two seasons.) To me, this money had to be spent. A 15+ goalscoring centre-forward wonÂ’t come around often for a team like Everton; in todayÂ’s inflated market they usual cost more.

If LukakuÂ’s 1st touch and ball control were a bit better heÂ’d have scored 40 goals and be wearing a blue shirt with "Samsung" on the front. HeÂ’s also left-footed and can play wide right, like he has against the Gunners. Lukaku driving at pace at Nacho Monreal gets my blood flowing. Lukaku is left footed (which is nice) and he counts as a home grown player. If Lukaku progresses as a player (and I think he will under Bobby and with EtoÂ’oÂ’s help), I could see Man City forking out a bloody fortune for him in a couple years.

Telling Man City that Barkley would cost them 㿞 million was smart too.

EtoÂ’o is a great pickup. He still is a world class player. If Chelsea played an offensive system better suited to #9 strikers he would have scored more than 9 goals from his 22 startsÂ…

IÂ’d agree with anyone who says Everton need a defender, this transfer window has all been about signing Lukaku and Berry to Everton contracts (plus signing EtoÂ’o) and getting all the other important Everton players to commit and sign for improved terms. There apparently isnÂ’t enough money available for the quality defender we all want.

Just remember that the funds available to Bobby are much more similar to Aston Villa and QPR than they are to the big teams (and EvertonÂ’s players are way better than VillaÂ’s or QPRÂ’s).

If things donÂ’t go swimmingly this season, my support wonÂ’t waverÂ… Everton are the one team in the Premier League that do not have a huge budget, but they scare the crap out of the big boys when they see Everton on the schedule.

We can only dream of winning the Europa League and getting into Champions League that wayÂ… It could happen. Bobby beat Man City with Wigan in an FA Cup Final!!!

Drew Shortis
293 Posted 01/09/2014 at 20:29:19
Amusing scenes on SSN with one excitable Toffee prodding the Sky reporters ear with a large purple dildo! Love deadline day ;)

Richard Carton
294 Posted 01/09/2014 at 20:36:08
Eugene 279 - Brillant, loved the warriors! Post of the night! Summed up the mood perfectly. For those who have seeen the 70s cult classic "Warriors", get on it....after 11pm of course!

As to that, Im still scratching ma head how hull got dawson for 3.5 million. He would have been ideal and better that the names mentioned today. What were we thinking to miss out on him.... Surely he would have picked us over hull! Gutted with that one!

Henrik Lyngsie
295 Posted 01/09/2014 at 20:00:59
Two points regarding our defence:

1) Jags (English international!!) looks really out of form. I have always felt he was limited as a football and his passing and distribution is poor. But defensively he was always solid in particular in his partnership with Lescott. But he the normal Jags is not a Martinez type and the out of form Jags would not even make the Wigan team!!! Solution. Short term:Just play Stones with Distin. Medium term: We need to buy a real class defender.

2) Our defence does not get proper protection during 90 minutes. Our two defensive midfielders seems to run out of steam the last 15, and even Osman looked really tired again arsenal where he was not even starting the game. But most importantly when we play both Mirallas and McGeady they are really challenged defensively and put a lot of extra burden on the defensive midfielders.

Andy Meighan
296 Posted 01/09/2014 at 20:38:44
Cleverley? Nah... not for me.

Meanwhile, back in the Sky studios, Natalie is sporting a lovely off-the-shoulder lemon number.

Phil Walling
297 Posted 01/09/2014 at 20:21:29
Can't disagree with much of that, Jim, but I think most of the Moyes' defensive excellence has now been coached out of our team. Perhaps that's the price we have to pay for the great stuff we saw last season.

I also share with you the hope and quiet confidence that the problems will gradually disappear as the season progresses.
That is not to excuse Martinez for causing them in the first place by abrogating his pre-season responsibilities.

Mark Dunford
298 Posted 01/09/2014 at 20:32:45
Kelvin (281) - the problem is the depth. Besic is unproven and while he made an awful error, he did try to make up for it in his remaining five minutes. He’ll get more chances. McCarthy is an excellent young player in his second season on a bigger stage - he wouldn’t be the first to have a dip in form but I’m sure he’ll return to former heights quickly. Barry is 33 and was excellent for bulk of last season - he made the odd error, but seems to be off key this year and the three year contract is too long. Gibson is clearly talented and regrettably injury prone - don’t forget he missed nearly all of last season and large chunks of the previous two. I have no problem signing Cleverly - talented player who can occupy a number of roles. Seems unlikely though. Who knows? Wheels move mysteriously on transfer deadline day.
Patrick Murphy
299 Posted 01/09/2014 at 20:41:00
Henrik - you must have missed the amount of tracking back and tackling that Mirallas put in on Saturday, McGeady not so much but KM was impressive and was probably the catalyst for any sort of fightback from Everton albeit in vain.
John Malone
300 Posted 01/09/2014 at 20:43:44
Patrick,

I have to agree – one of the best games I’ve seen Kevin Mirallas have on Saturday. He tracked back, got stuck in, and was lively and creative in attack, plus he scored a goal – can’t ask for much more than that.

Mike Hughes
301 Posted 01/09/2014 at 20:45:01
The evening is going exactly to plan so far.
Pretend nothing's happening then catch the opposition on the back foot with some late big name signings.
Sneaky but clever.

Conor McCourt
302 Posted 01/09/2014 at 20:29:28
Some fair points there Jim but a lot of the anti-Martinez brigade jump on this idea that last seasons defensive record was a by-product of the Moyes era and not down to Matrinez. Not only did he implement a new defensive system with two defensive midfielders protecting to allow our full-backs to play like wing backs, as you correctly point out he also purchased the two midfielders which would help make the system work. Moreover not only did these two midfielders not play under the previous regime but Moyes can have next to no praise for the organisation of two of the five defenders who mostly played last season as Stones played as a full back and Coleman as a winger under Moyes. Could I also point out what type of club Wigan are for those who want to compare it to Everton. I remember when Roberto tried to sign Maloney from Celtic he was up against Burnley who were fighting to stay in the Championship for the signature. Burnley offered greater wages but Wigan only got their man because Maloney wanted to play in the Premiership.. So its not that he's bad defensively he was working with the poorest tools in the division and unlike your Sheffield Unitedd's of the past he took the biggest teams head on which meant he lived by the sword and died by it.
Dave Harper
303 Posted 01/09/2014 at 20:46:55
So no Henen, no CB, and the possibility of Cleverley on loan if not forced into a permanent deal. IÂ’m normally an optimist, but today may just change that.
Brian Hennessy
304 Posted 01/09/2014 at 20:45:06
Royston Drenthe now there is a player on a downward spiral.

Feyenoord to Real Madrid to Everton, to Alania Vladikavkaz to Reading and now on to the mighty Sheffield Wednesday.

The only thing getting bigger for his is his waistline, pity, the boy had talent...

Steve Jenkins
305 Posted 01/09/2014 at 20:45:45
I haven’t seen too much of Cleverly last year, I just know he came in for a huge amount of stick.

Confidence is huge in any player and his has obviously been rock bottom recently.

I don’t see the need for another midfielder and would rather strengthen in other areas where I think we are lacking.

However, Roberto has worked with him & got the best out of him and knows him as well as anybody.

I remember watching Cleverley for United against City 2/3 years ago in the Charity Shield and he ran the show.

He hasn’t lost that ability - he’s still in his early/mid 20’s, he has or did last year, lose his confidence.

I’m far from writing Cleverley off, McCarthy when signed was a hugely overpriced ......

Even Eto as recently as Friday, to a lot of people, Eto was an awful signing - a crocked grandad, come Sat evening I doubt there are many would argue - it looks like a great bit of business.

If Roberto wants him and we get him then I’m sure we’ll see the best Tom Cleverley there is.

IRWT

Phil Walling
306 Posted 01/09/2014 at 20:56:40
Steve, it seems to be something of a Martinez requisite that if you played or coached at Wigan you must be good.

If that's so, how could they possibly have got relegated ? By pissing about at the back by any chance?

Dom Ungi
307 Posted 01/09/2014 at 20:52:46
I am personally confident on both Tom Cleverly and David Henen. I would love a defender, Shawcross or Rolando? Competition for Distin and Jagielka. After Arsenal dropped out of running for Danny Welbeck, I would like Cleverly on a permanent deal and Welbeck on loan.

Shame to see Ben Arfa heading to Hull, I think he could have completed our forward line.

This is, remember, only MartinezÂ’s second season, he inherited this squad; many tired and becoming old... and he has completely revitalised us! Lay off him!! Expect business, good quality business from our Bobby. He made our season with the Deadline Day signings this time last year.

Henrik Lyngsie
308 Posted 01/09/2014 at 20:55:20
Patrick 303. No I did not miss Mirallas huge effort against Chelsea and think he was our best player. He is one of my favourites and my one son is wearing a Mirallas shirt.

But my point is that Mirallas is much more of a offensive than a defensive player. When combined with McGeady who is really lightweight defensively we put a lot of pressure on the rest of the team defensively.

If we compare with my good friend Mourinho. He demands a lot of his wide midfielders in terms of tracking back and that is the key to their (normally) strong defence.

Pete Ellingham
309 Posted 01/09/2014 at 21:02:55
Why oh why are we signing Cleverly? Why are we interested in such an average player? We need a CB!
Conor McCourt
310 Posted 01/09/2014 at 20:57:29
SSN reported that Vila pulled out of the race to sign Cleverly. That's like me chatting up Natalie Sawyer and when she tells me where to go then telling her well I didn't want you anyway.
Mike Oates
311 Posted 01/09/2014 at 21:09:15
BBC. Cleverly deal off. Everton want loan; Man Utd want to sell in a permanent deal.
Denis Richardson
312 Posted 01/09/2014 at 21:06:07
Apparently Villa said no to Cleverly as his agent was asking for 㿼k/week!

㿼k a week – for Cleverly... I am still underwhelmed, I presume the powers that be won't be touching that kind of deal.

David Hallwood
313 Posted 01/09/2014 at 21:08:29
Would have preferred Holtby to Cleverly; whatÂ’s next for Drenthe, Marine or the Dog & Duck
Sean Patton
314 Posted 01/09/2014 at 21:16:21
Leaving Reading for Sheffield Wednesday is a step up surely.
Dom Ungi
315 Posted 01/09/2014 at 21:09:11
I donÂ’t understand how you can criticise Martinez in signing former Wigan players. Cleverly blossomed well at Wigan; when he returned to Man Utd, he was misused and often made the scapegoat for most of the short Moyes Era. Then the new season started for Man Utd and the poor performances continued. Cleverly rarely played but was still made the scapegoat.

Go back years... Tim Howard, stuck as Number Two keeper, signed on the cheap; as a more mature goalkeeper, he has surely became one of the best in the league.

Or take a Look at Louis Saha, an older player still proved his qualities with us; or more to the present, Darron Gibson. Cheap but, despite fitness issues, has still put together some great performances.

More to the point, Cleverly has title-winning, Champions League experience and is a decade younger, a no-brainer to me. The next Osman.

As I previously said, lay off Bobby. He’s a year into the job and boy has he proved himself. A few average performances at the start of the season used to be the "normal Everton poor start" under Moyes; we need to get behind the team – not disrupt them.

Steve Jenkins
316 Posted 01/09/2014 at 21:17:48
310 Phil

I hardly think Wigan is pre requisite, the coaching staff he's worked with & trusts - a fundamental for any manager surely, likewise, the few players he's brought from there.

They got relegated imho because they had a tiny budget and had to sell their best players every season.

A tough task for anybody surely, they also won the FA Cup beating Man City in the final under Roberto, something we haven't done as a club for almost 20 years.

Trevor Lynes
317 Posted 01/09/2014 at 21:11:54
Henen is off to Olympiacos!

We received almost 䀆 million from the media and made well over 㿀 million during the past two transfer windows and we have been out spent (again) by lots of teams who usually look to survive.

It seems we may get Cleverley if we are able to arrange a loan. That to me just about sums up the ambition of our beloved club!

Eugene Ruane
318 Posted 01/09/2014 at 21:15:11
At last!

Everton have signed Noah Bo'di.

Don't know a thing about him to be honest but a definite signing according to Sky.

Possibly a Ghanaian or Cameroon under 21 play....oh..er..cancel that,

Just realise he said 'Everton have signed nobody.'

Denis Richardson
319 Posted 01/09/2014 at 21:28:45
Eugene! That had me scrambling to SSN until I said the name in my head again.....

Cruel man...

Mike Hughes
320 Posted 01/09/2014 at 21:36:22
You have to admire the brinkmanship of our executive team. >Leaving things this late.

Balls of steel or what?

Dom Ungi
322 Posted 01/09/2014 at 21:33:17
Trevor #321

I don’t understand how you can moan about spending! We may not have spent more then 7 or 8 teams, but 4 gained Champions League status - gaining around 㿏-45M. Then there is Man United, of course they are having an overhaul... Along with Southampton who sold half their team and have just reused the funds!

Everton however, have broken their transfer record, brought in a player or two for the future and have all in all spent around 㿎 million, WITHOUT selling one of our top players. The spending will likely go up too.

Stephen Brown
323 Posted 01/09/2014 at 21:39:32
This is all a bit frustrating
Dom Ungi
324 Posted 01/09/2014 at 21:39:51
Devastated!! The one and only Jason Bent has signed for QPR... What a signing he will prove too be! Jim White for Prime Minister (even though he's Scottish).
Mark Fitzgerald
325 Posted 01/09/2014 at 21:45:37
"Everton set to sign David Henen on loan for a season from Olympiakos, who just signed him from Anderlecht say Greek sources. Complicated". - Tweet from Phil McNulty BBC Sport
Mike Oates
326 Posted 01/09/2014 at 21:49:39
BBC again! Cleverley deal off; Everton want a loan deal... Man Utd won't do it; they want a sale.
Simon Smith
327 Posted 01/09/2014 at 21:52:00
Cleverley deal off says BBC but it not over till the fat lady sings!!
Tony Abrahams
328 Posted 01/09/2014 at 20:33:33
If you watch Everton regularly, Phil, then surely you must be aware that we donÂ’t always play hung-ho.

Martinez is not having the best of times just now, but letÂ’s be logical when talking about the Chelsea game. We chased the game hard against a very clinical Chelsea and you canÂ’t really fault the effort put in by the team. I disagree about McCarthy turning slowly, I just think heÂ’s fucked having to do so much work and we really need more mobility in the centre of the park against the better teams.

Barry keeps Everton ticking with his clever football, but IÂ’m not sure he gets close enough against the quicker teams. He got close to Willian in the first minute but, because of his lack of pace, he got turned and never recovered his position until we were picking the ball out of our net.

With the width of our fullbacks and all the covering McCarthy has to do, I think it could be affecting his all-round game and we really could do with more energy in there when it comes to playing the top teams.

Dom Ungi
329 Posted 01/09/2014 at 21:51:00
BBC are wrong! SSN for the win, they are reporting deal close for Tom Cleverley.
Si Cooper
330 Posted 01/09/2014 at 21:40:43
Denis (266) - a lot of people seem to think Barry was bypassed by a lot of what went on last Saturday. Considering his age and the fact he has never been the most mobile, he is always likely to struggle to match the tempo some of our better opposition will be able to play at. Doesn't mean he wont have a very important part to play in the majority of our games, just that at times you may choose youth and mobility twice over in that pairing and forsake the experience and guile that Barry has.

Yes, I am gently disagreeing with those who can't see any point in signing another midfielder and think there were quality defenders just waiting to be snapped up. If you can start to think of Besic as another central defender then you are half-way to believing that we already have done! ;)

If you think Michael Dawson is in any way better* than any of the central defenders we already have then you obviously have not actually properly watched him play, and certainly didn't witness his usual 'splayed legs, stuck in no-man's land' clownish performance against Villa yesterday.

(* If his missus happens to be more attractive than any of the others, that does not count!).

Michael Kenrick
331 Posted 01/09/2014 at 21:56:51
Phil Neville talking on Radio 5Live about the time he came close to joining Harry Redknapp at Spurs, who were in the Champions League. Everton did not want to lose their captain... who was 34 at the time.

Poor memory, I know, but I don't recollect a word about this offhand.

Simon Smith
332 Posted 01/09/2014 at 21:57:27
So are Everton going to play hardball and pick him up on a free at the end of season or go back in for him in January for a small fee?
Simon Smith
333 Posted 01/09/2014 at 22:04:22
Micheal (335) I remember about it we all said he should go at the time but the club wouldn't let him go
Dom Ungi
334 Posted 01/09/2014 at 22:04:32
DEAL OFF FFS bad deadline day for us!
David Hallwood
335 Posted 01/09/2014 at 22:08:05
Just been on SSN-No deal for Cleverley
Dom Ungi
336 Posted 01/09/2014 at 22:10:05
Just a quick quote from Alan Irvine "No more in comings, No more outgoings" what does this mean for David Henen? Disappointed as was expecting a couple of lads in.
Simon Smith
337 Posted 01/09/2014 at 22:10:42
So Dom(333) the BBC were right as of 10 pm
Si Cooper
338 Posted 01/09/2014 at 21:58:44
Sorry Denis, the last bit of my post was not aimed at you in particular. If you are one of the misguided who keep whinging that we could have had him for only ١.5 million (and why would a top defender in his prime be available for so little, and sought after by so few?) then you are, of course, included.

Dom Ungi - if you consider we had an extra 㿀 million pounds income this year, we hardly spent any of what we got from deals last summer and in January, and we have apparently only had to produce ٣ million up front then the fact that it was a transfer record is lessened greatly. There should still have been money available for half a dozen frees / loans / relatively low-cost permanent deals. I (and others) think we are at least a couple short of really strengthening the squad in terms of upping the number of senior players from last season.

Cleverley deal now off. If Henen has also not happened then there is still a definite whiff of amateurism in some of our attempts to bring players to the club.

Michael Kenrick
339 Posted 01/09/2014 at 22:12:03
You're spot on, Simon. January 2011:

Captain Phil off to Spurs?

Andy Meighan
340 Posted 01/09/2014 at 22:14:49
Happy we never got Cleverley another average midfielder is just what we didnÂ’t need. Thought he might have bust a gut to get a centre half in though. The thought of them two at the back for the rest of the season, injuries permitting, has got me shitting myself. LetÂ’s see if heÂ’s got the bottle to drop Jagielka for the next game. I wonÂ’t hold my breath though.
Dom Ungi
341 Posted 01/09/2014 at 22:17:05
Simon Smith 341

Ok I'm wrong this time, isn't the first time, certainly won't be my last. :)

Si 342
I not saying we haves end all of our transfer budget I understand completely what you are saying but not all the money can go into transfers, we offered new deals to many players, made upgrades to training and stadium facilities and then made 34£ million worth of signings. Good business, not the best, shame we couldn't get a couple over the line. There is still 40 mins...

Simon Smith
342 Posted 01/09/2014 at 22:19:39
BBC saying Everton were going to buy him but not at ٦M that Villa were willing to pay
Michael Kenrick
343 Posted 01/09/2014 at 22:26:13
Quite right too. Cleverley not worth ٦M. Man Utd obviously wanting some of that Fellaini gouging back!
Si Cooper
344 Posted 01/09/2014 at 22:17:00
So we sold Duffy without knowing we could bring someone else in? That seems risky if it was unnecessary. Driven by the money men again?

No foreign loans (unless I have forgotten something), so apparently we didn't impress any continental clubs enough for us to find a few potential gems to polish up? That seems particularly disappointing as well.

Simon Smith
345 Posted 01/09/2014 at 22:25:34
Someone at EFC has got some sense at last. No way would I want to pay ٦M for him when we can get him for free next year if he sticks it out.

So it's down to Cleverley and just how much he wants to play first team footy.

Stephen Brown
346 Posted 01/09/2014 at 22:32:13
Hands up who’s staying up anyway and checking bbc ssn TW and Greg o keefe twitter just incase !!!!
John Beesley
347 Posted 01/09/2014 at 22:31:00
A shame about the Cleverly deal as he would of been a great addition to our squad.

At the same time, a great transfer window compared to some of the transfer windows of the past; better to get your business done early, for any of you people who are disappointed about no last minute business.

Si Cooper
348 Posted 01/09/2014 at 22:28:08
Dom (345) - it just looks as though really looking to exploit our opportunity to build on last season is not a priority for the club.

If we fail to win a trophy and slip outside the European places this season when are we likely to get another chance as good. Would imagine something in the trophy cabinet would attract / retain players in the next few years more than some improvements to the training facilities. Certain that the supporters would have traded some cosmetic changes at Goodison for a couple of squad players in this season of increased opportunity as well

Jim Bennings
349 Posted 01/09/2014 at 22:34:25
Why is Martinez spending time with this deal anyway?

Why if he rates Cleverley so much did he splash so much money on a 3 year contract for a 33 year old Gareth Barry?

Why sign Besic?

Why no central defender??

Stephen Brown
350 Posted 01/09/2014 at 22:38:11
No CD really is shocking.
Jim Bennings
351 Posted 01/09/2014 at 22:37:43
No decent back up goalie either.

No pressure on Jagielka or Distin aged 32 and 37 apart from a inexperienced 20 year old and a totally knackered 31 injury prone crock in Alcaraz.

Disappointed to be honest.

Dom Ungi
352 Posted 01/09/2014 at 22:37:50
Si 352

Again I completely agree, woke up very optimistic that Bobby and Bill would set out to exploit the mistakes of United, and Liverpool signing so many players and doing a "Tottenham" but clearly not the case. Will be years before we get such a good opportunity like this and in failing to capitalise on the chance will surely enrage fans. I wasn't saying I agreed with spending money elsewhere then signing more quality players just stating what had actually happened. Very disappointing day in my opinion indeed, unless something materialises out of thin air in the last fifteen minutes.

Si Cooper
353 Posted 01/09/2014 at 22:38:25
Jim, maybe he didn't expect Cleverley to actually be made available? Maybe he has had time to really assess Darron Gibson post his major injury and thinks we need some more options in the squad? Maybe Besic has always been seriously considered as an option for both midfield and central defence?

All of those situations are plausible and would go some way to explaining why he has spent time trying to sign Cleverley. For the actual answer you need to ask him.

Scott Goin
354 Posted 01/09/2014 at 22:36:15
Cleverley isn't a big loss. Martinez probably could have made him a good squad member but an ٦ million transfer and a reportedly high wage request (~㿼k/wk) is way too much for him. At times Cleverley can look good but, honestly, last year he looked crap.

Henen was the other "loss" but they've had plenty of time to determine his value. If they say he wasn't worth it, I believe them. People tend to believe the hype in young players far too often. Most of them just aren't very good.

I didn't really expect much from today. We've had a good transfer window and should be able to compete domestically and in Europe. Our defense has been bad so far but we had the 3rd stingiest defense last year with the same players. Probably just need to refocus and recommit again.

Richard Reeves
355 Posted 01/09/2014 at 22:36:05
"HeÂ’s been dropped from the England squad, canÂ’t get a game for his club, written off by the general public, his contract runs out in 12 months and you want WHAT! We were thinking more like a couple of million,.. ahem."
Gavin Johnson
356 Posted 01/09/2014 at 22:39:57
See Henen's announced signing for Olyimpiakos on a 4 year deal on Twitter.. Hope the Henen deal wasn't compromised because he was considered secondary to Cleverley (with the Henen money put towards the Cleverley deal, that is now off as well)

I should imagine that United have played hard ball and have not gone out of their way to facilitate the deal after last seasons deadline day.

Si Cooper
357 Posted 01/09/2014 at 22:47:21
"If they say he wasn't worth it, I believe them." - whenever an Everton attempt to sign a player falls at the last hurdle, I tend to think we've got little money to spend and have probably tried to squeeze the deal in our favour too much.

Time for a ToffeeWeb vote? ;)

Simon Smith
358 Posted 01/09/2014 at 22:51:25
So on TC we offered a loan deal only; Villa offered ٦M to buy. We might have gone to ٢M for a player who can walk for nothing in 10 months. If that's the case, then I applaud the club for sticking to their guns and Bradford miss out on a sell-on fee of 10%.
Chris Sillett
359 Posted 01/09/2014 at 22:51:32
Well, I'm not bothered about Cleverley, we didn't need another centre midfielder anyway, but I am disappointed and surprised we didn't get another centre back or attacking midfielder in to cover Barkley. 10 goals conceded in 3 games should've sent alarm bells ringing but apparently not.

Ben Arfa would've been a decent addition and given us a player who can produce a bit of magic. Ah well, now the window is shut, I can stop checking NewsNow every 10 minutes!

Simon Smith
360 Posted 01/09/2014 at 22:56:17
thats it, it's closed
Scott Goin
361 Posted 01/09/2014 at 22:56:51
Si @361,

It's hard to say in this case as none of us knows how good Henen is. Martinez has at least seen a lot of him on the training ground. If he was willing to play hard ball on ٟ.5 million, that means to me that he's not that bothered.

Tom Bowers
362 Posted 01/09/2014 at 22:55:27
So, as it stands... the current squad is what we have to live with at least until January. However, maybe things arenÂ’t that bad. They do have some depth; with Oveido and Barkley to come back, the chances are they will have another decent season but decent enough to get to the top 4 is probably expecting a lot in the face of the billionaire incumbents who have much bigger and stronger squads.

Still, if RM can cure the defensive woes, who knows what will transpire?

Harold Matthews
363 Posted 01/09/2014 at 23:01:51
Not sure I understand Roberto any more.
Harold Matthews
364 Posted 01/09/2014 at 23:06:07
Couldn't care less about Cleverly and Henen.
Mike Keating
365 Posted 01/09/2014 at 22:57:47
Let's just hope there's a great Serbian CB and lifetime Evertonian no one has ever heard of who is out of contract somewhere in the world
Otherwise, the message is clear;
Attack, Attack, Attack
Si Cooper
366 Posted 01/09/2014 at 23:06:15
Scot, you are assuming that it is RM playing hard-ball and not some other member of the recruitment department.

I thought it was generally accepted that managers only really identified the targets these days and other club executives actually did the dealing.

I also thought it was generally accepted amongst the Everton fan-base that it is the men who have a tight hold on the purse strings who determine which deals get done.

Kevin Rowlands
367 Posted 01/09/2014 at 23:04:28
For me, it's pretty obvious Cleverley has been told by us to chill out till January, which is only four months away anyway. We'll then come in with a much lower offer which they'll be forced to accept because if they don't he's gonna fuck off next summer for nothing. We'll then sweeten his wage packet on the money saved in transfer fees.

It's plainly obvious Martinez wants him and he wants to come; I believe he will be an Everton player soon enough. Man Utd still pissed off and playing hardball because we mugged them off for Fellaini, fuck them!

Dave Cook
368 Posted 01/09/2014 at 23:10:30
Well, 3 months till we can start asking where the Cleverley money is.
Alex Mullan
369 Posted 01/09/2014 at 23:08:43
The knee jerk reactions are just ridiculous here tonight. The rage is all stemming from the fact we didn't sign anyone this deadline day. Some people have got used to doing nothing for months then panic buys in the last minute. You just end up sounding childish. What is with the prevailing idea that you simply MUST sign someone on deadline day?

News flash, we made our signings early, spent a boat load and have a better squad than we did at our peak last season. And this is somehow met with cries of woe and lamenting. Pull yourself together!!

You are punishing the manager and board for actually doing deals early, and therefore not feeding you your now twice annual last minute panic buy (which granted they attempted to do, but thank goodness it failed, as Cleverly is shite).

And finally, the crying about needing to buy defenders and a new keeper - seriously, 3 games in vs Chelsea and Arsenal. Some serious jerking of knees around here lately.

Andy Finigan
371 Posted 01/09/2014 at 23:11:40
Spot on Kevin.They will now lose money on his transfer value and money they pay him in wages.
Mike Hughes
372 Posted 01/09/2014 at 23:13:05
Clever, clever stuff this from EFC.
Signing players would have implied that we had strengthened.
Which would have meant that we admitted a current weakness.

Therefore, not signing anyone, implies that we have no weakness.
Reverse psychology.
Mark my words, our rivals will be cacking themselves.

Scott Goin
373 Posted 01/09/2014 at 23:10:38
Si @370,

Martinez doesn't handle the actual deals but it's him and his guys who have determined Henen's value. The financial guys aren't scouts. Everton went a bit high on Lukaku at 㿈 million because Bobby made it clear he was worth it. If Martinez had told them Henen has a lot of potential and is worth ١ mill, the deal probably would have gotten done.

I doubt this was about Everton being completely out of money.

Max Levy
374 Posted 01/09/2014 at 23:08:29
Back to the real world. Does anyone know what the latest on Ross Barkley's knee is? Seems to have gone all quiet since the 1st scan. Good window overall, I'll sleep soundly tonight.
James Hill
375 Posted 01/09/2014 at 23:15:17
Alex you should just come here for a good laugh. Most of the comedians in Liverpool post on Toffeweb.
Si Cooper
376 Posted 01/09/2014 at 23:10:55
I feel like I am justified in wanting more... and that is like Oliver Twist and not Augustus Gloop!

Not that Cleverley or Henen were near the top of any wish-list I may have had. It is just that they seemed like definite possibilities so not signing them seems like a failure of some sort.

Manure are probably really keen to recoup money through transfer fees to replenish their kitty for the next transfer window. Their business model means they are likely to be more keen on balancing the books anyway, but they also have to avoid falling foul of financial fair play rules.

Trevor Lynes
377 Posted 01/09/2014 at 22:45:52
Dom, this is not a unique situation. We broke up top teams that won trophies and titles in the past and we have never been able to create continued success due to money-grabbing boardrooms. We earned almost 䀆 million from the media so where has all that gone?

We consistently make money during transfer windows and even Lukaku has been bought in instalments. We are the 20th most valuable club in the world but still penny-pinch and wait to pick the bones out of whatever other clubs have left.

Cleverley has been off form for at least two seasons and was dire playing against MK Dons so why are we interested in him? Wait until the dust settles and compare our money spent with the other clubs in the Premier League. I predict Roberto will lose patience much sooner than David Moyes did when the penny finally drops.

Any club with real ambition buys when they are on top and that has been borne out during this window. Man Utd will buy their way back to the top four, even if not this season. BK and his buddies have received well over 𧴜 million in media revenue and profitable transfer windows – and that is a fact! We still do not have a larger squad than last season yet we are expected to make a decent fist in extra fixtures earned in Europe.

Tommy Meehan
378 Posted 01/09/2014 at 23:17:35
Incredible that the defence has been left as is . . . really think this decision not to strengthen is going to come back and haunt us
Gavin Johnson
379 Posted 01/09/2014 at 23:06:27
Can't believe we've not bought a centre back in!! Especially given we've just sold one and we've let 10 goals in 3 games. The Cleverley signing would have been a luxury but it seems apparent to everyone except for Bobby that we're currently weak defensively with the existing players and it's going to be a long slog having to play in Europa games as well.

So I'm with you on that point Harold. My worry is that last season our defenders were so entrenched in OFM ways they played to that standard last season. My worry although it might sound dramatic, is that the fears we had about the high scoring games when Roberto took the job might come into fruition now he is fully realising his tactical plans (the defensive rot was happening at the end of last season notably the Palace, Saints games) And I don't understand on the back of that why he said we were defensively sound when he announced his plans this summer of signing 4 attacking players

Nick Wall
380 Posted 01/09/2014 at 23:23:48
Interesting - I wonder how many million we offered for Cleverley. Seems to show that we had more spending money to hand if the right player was available at the right price who could strengthen the squad.
Max Levy
381 Posted 01/09/2014 at 23:27:56
Ross Barkley's knee?? All info gratefully received.
Patrick Murphy
382 Posted 01/09/2014 at 23:26:17
The TV money doesn't seem to have had a great effect on our transfer policy does it? I think over the last 4 windows we have probably spent close to what we have recouped so until we sell another player we more than likely won't be able to buy the players required to fill the positions that need replacing, obviously the wage bill has increased so that will take a fair bit out of the kitty. So Roberto has probably got a net spend somewhere in the region of 㾻m is that enough to make us competitive at the top-half in this league I fear that it isn't.

Si Cooper
383 Posted 01/09/2014 at 23:23:00
Scot - ٟ.5 million is chickenfeed for a player with definite potential at Henen's age (which is perhaps a season off making a break-through at senior level).

We are supposed to believe that RM is possibly a better judge of talent than other managers otherwise we are never going to be able to really challenge the rich teams.

If Henen had been identified as a really good gamble why would we only go to ٟ.5 million?

Do you honestly find it so hard to believe that RM may have been restricted by severe caps on his spending that he may have broken if he could?

The Lukaku signing is a different animal. It gave our theatre impressario Chairman some razzamatazz and has apparently pulled the chair from under a lot of his critics. Maybe some overspending on the marquee signing has led to further financial restrictions elsewhere.

Gavin Johnson
384 Posted 01/09/2014 at 23:32:43
Nick #384... ٢M was mentioned by the BBC; I wouldn't be surprised if it was the ٟ.5M offered for Henen and the rest coming from the money received Forshaw and Duffy.

I don't think we offered the ٦M United wanted for no other reason than we didn't have the money

Kevin Rowlands
385 Posted 01/09/2014 at 23:39:12
Not sure about anyone else but for me thank fuck it's now over and we go with what we've got, not the greatest transfer window but compared to some of the horror show ones we've had to endure in the last ten years or so certainly not the worst.

We will never compete with the big boys when it comes to transfer windows whilst Uncle Cyril's nephew remains at the helm but it does get frustrating when clubs like Swansea, QPR and fucking Hull are splashing the cash and a club with our history and stature always seems to be scraping the barrel and penny pinching, oh well.

Gavin John
386 Posted 01/09/2014 at 23:33:08
You lot are a happy bunch.

Can I remind you that we are paying the best football in years and will do very well again this season.

Look at the last three games against Arsenal, for example: weÂ’ve been fantastic! Normally, we get battered every year.

Our defensive problems are a complete overreaction. A few stupid mistakes and fitness has cost us. These things are easily sorted.

Enjoy our football, enjoy Europe & get behind the team and management.

Patrick Murphy
387 Posted 01/09/2014 at 23:47:45
Kevin Who is Uncle Cyril? But one thing that Roberto can say to his troops is that he backs them and now they have to produce the goods for him between now and January. I'm beginning to dislike Neville and Murphy even more than Hansen and Lawrenson.
Ian Black
388 Posted 01/09/2014 at 23:44:16
Despite my mild irritation about not buying a new Centre Half, overall I'm reasonably happy with the transfer window. We have broken our transfer record (almost doubled it) with a statement of intent up front. We have brought in Besic who looks champing at the bit to displace Barry (another signing) or McCarthy, when injury/rest is needed. We have signed an old pro up front with an impeccable CV and a tricky winger on loan.

Sure, more numbers would have been nice to help with Europe but for those doom-mongers among you I ask this: How long is it since we went through a summer transfer window without selling one of our most marketable players? I think that is the most pertinent signal of intent in my opinion.

Si Cooper
389 Posted 01/09/2014 at 23:41:21
Gavin - Duffy was no were near the first team as things stand (do you think he would have handled Diego Costa easily?) so selling him wasn't that strange and doesn't massively compromise our defensive capabilities even if it is one body less. I really do think people need to start viewing Besic as cover for central defence.

Three poor results (one terrible goals against column), three patchy performances but too early to label it the end of the world. Leicester will score against most at home this season, Arsenal will beat most at home and at least draw with most away, and Chelsea will beat most easily home or away.

I am not ignoring the poor play and the inexcusable mistakes, but I am choosing not to extrapolate them in the most negative way just yet. Three good performances / results in the next three games and it will all seem like just a bad dream.

Gavin Johnson
390 Posted 01/09/2014 at 23:50:44
Story just published by the Echo saying that we still want Henen via a loan from the mighty Olympikiaos.

It's really frustrating that A) we wouldn't pay the extra 1.5m to sign him on a full time contract and B) Why would we want to take the kid on to develop him and than have to pay Olympikiaos a ridiculous amount to sign him and C) What do we gain in developing another player who we won't even get in out first team this season!

Jamie Barlow
391 Posted 01/09/2014 at 23:53:19
I don't think it's a failure or about not having the money why we didn't sign Cleverley. They were asking for ٦ million and we wanted him on loan, probably on terms similar to the Barry and City deal. If we really want him and he wants to come, we'll get him for nothing next season. We'd be mental to pay what they wanted.
Kevin Rowlands
392 Posted 01/09/2014 at 23:57:07
Haha Pat' he's the twat that used to bring his nephew on the front of his bike to watch the blues in the boys pen and the nephew fell in love with Everton, if you still haven't guessed the nephew was and is ' Everton's greatest salesman' our beloved Bill Kenwright!
Scott Goin
393 Posted 01/09/2014 at 23:45:21
Si @387,

It's possible that Everton have a strict spending cap in place. It's certainly been there in past years. From my view though, things seem to be a little more flexible now but I have no more information that anyone else.

What I do know, however, is that buying young players is generally seen as a great investment but you have to get them at the right price to justify the risk. If our scouts genuinely thought Henen had a great chance to be worth ٤ million in 2 or 3 years, they would be stupid not to spend ١ million now. I'm thinking they must have had doubts about his future potential and decided to hold on to that money to put into a less risky investment. January is only 4 months away and the money will still be there.

Gavin Johnson
394 Posted 01/09/2014 at 23:59:51
It's just like the Eric Dier loan..again all the above applied
Simon Smith
395 Posted 01/09/2014 at 23:57:35
Nick(384) reports were we offered somewhere around ٢m for T.C. and Villa had offered ٦M for a player with only 10 months left of his contract. Just have to wait and see what happens to him in January and how bad Man.U want to get some money for him.
If he holds out we can get him for free by this time next year.
Patrick Murphy
396 Posted 02/09/2014 at 00:03:00
Cheers Kevin I knew it was BK that you were referring, but I thought that Betty from Corrie had an illicit affair with a guy called Cyril - I now remember reading about the real Cyril but I forgot it was him that introduced the wonderful Actor to the club.
Si Cooper
397 Posted 01/09/2014 at 23:57:50
"How long is it since we went through a summer transfer window without selling one of our most marketable players? I think that is the most pertinent signal of intent in my opinion."

I am fed up of people telling me how made-up I should be that we haven't had to sell to buy this summer.

The facts are that we sold Fellaini, Jelavic and even Anichebe for far more money than we spent on permanent signings last summer, and we got a huge financial boost from TV revenue to boot.

We have effectively done the same this year as last (and before that, and before that) except the players were sold ahead of time and added a windfall to it to make a record signing.

We have not increased senior numbers and are reliant on ageing stalwarts, players overcoming serious injuries, and untried youngsters retaining form / coming good.

Not what I would call a statement of intent. How used we must be to being third rate in the transfer market if people are so excited that we have just about been second-rate this time.

Patrick Murphy
398 Posted 02/09/2014 at 00:11:39
Agreed Si - it's the greatest confidence trick of all-time and it will one day blow up in our faces but at least we have broken our transfer record, which we did when we signed Beattie et al but that isn't enough to improve the overall quality of the team if we want to compete at the top-end of the table.
John Daley
399 Posted 02/09/2014 at 00:07:17
Jim Bennings,

Give it a rest man.

I too share your view that the Jags/Distin partnership is something of a problem. Always have done, ever since they were first paired up. Whether it’s insurmountable or not I’m not sure because I kind of got distracted by your expertly practiced impression of ’annoying pisscan in a pub wanting to put the world to rights, when everyone else in there just wants a quiet drink without some gobshite machine-gunning flem into their face’

Firstly, you can’t just make your point and then leave it at that. Instead, you have to stick around for dear life like a 5 hair holding winnit on Brian Blessed’s arse wig. It’s just constant streams of nothingness coming at you all day long.

Jim Bennings: 22.06
I’m walking up the stairs..slowly, like Michael Myers because...well...i’m in no rush and have nothing much better to do anyway.

Jin Bennings: 22.07
At the top of the stairs. Carpet still in fairly good condition considering it’s age.

Jim Bennings: 22.08
Halfway down the stairs

Jim Bennings: 22.09
Reached the bottom of the stairs. Don’t know whether to head to the kitchen or the living room. Will update when I have decided.

Then there’s the whole spoilt little shit who never got what he wanted for Xmas syndrome:

’Ooooh thank you soooo much grannywanny. I love you sooooo m....whoa, whoa, whoa. What... is...this? A playstation 3? Playstation pissing 3? You can fuck right off Gran. No way am I prepared to accept such a low quality gift. Did Doc Brown bring the Delorean round and transport us back to Victorian times when I wasn’t looking? Did he shit as like! We aren’t living in a Poor House, lobbing 1/2 a pint of gruel down our gobs. You get a state pension. Put it to fucking use. I demand you take this piece of crap back and substitute it with something of superior standing, this instant, you
semi-immobilised, fully incontinent, torrents of talc twinned with imminent death smelling arl skinflint. Sharpish!! C’moooon! Shuffling along like some kind of stop-motion skeleton from a Ray Harryhausen film isn’t gonna get this shit sorted out any quicker. Sooner you get your arse to Argos, sooner you can be back dislodging fishbones from your throat you Tales From The Crypt looking old crone.....Mum. Mum. You won’t beliiiieeeeve what Granny grot bags got me. Seriously, you’ll piss yourself’.

For example:

"Where’s our friggin defenders?? We have FOUR CENTRAL DEFENDERS."

Which most would have said was enough a little over a week ago. Now you’re wanting the manager to panic and go all out to bring in a player he probably won’t have been tracking to date, purely on the basis of a bad defensive run he probably see’s as no more than a momentary blip?

"We are prepared to use our last loan up on a player who Martinez has already told us will only go into the youth team"

Even if that happened, how is it ’our last loan’? There’s only been Atsu loaned domestically and none from any other league. You don’t have to stop off at Sesame Street to get some green git dossing in a bin to assist you in adding those numbers up surely?

"First of all I can’t believe he is not out there today trying to bring a central defender in"

1) How do you know he hasn’t been.
2) Did he not say yesterday that he wouldn’t be looking to add any defenders to the squad today? The fact you chose to hold out hope regardless isn’t Roberto’s doing is it?

"If loves Cleverley so much and we are now hearing it was a permanent deal for the United man, then why not make him a priority ahead of Besic and why spend so much on Gareth Barry?"

Maybe it had something to do with the fact that the new United manager said he wanted to assess every member of his squad before deciding who he would be prepared to let leave? Maybe it was simply because he found out Besic was available at a bargain price and couldn’t pass it up? Maybe he thought he enough midfield numbers prior to Barkley and Pienaar being ruled out through injury? There’s any number of possible reasons other than the incompetences you’re insinuating.

"No decent back up goalie either"

Diddums.

"Why if he rates Cleverley so much did he splash so much money on a 3 year contract for a 33 year old Gareth Barry?

Why sign Besic?

Why no central defender??"

Honestly. It’s like that bit in Carrie where her mother’s warning of ’they’re all going to laugh at you’ reverberates around her head, repeatedly, for what seems like fucking ages. The same words over and over and over again. I can actually imagine you wearing the same wild eyed look....hopefully sans the pigs blood splattered prom dress though.

Lucky you don’t share the same powers of telekenisis as the tampon ignorant teen because Roberto’s head would have gone all ’Scanners’ and been splattered all over Bill’s office walls and nigh-on mythological fax machine many hours ago.

Ian Black
400 Posted 02/09/2014 at 00:13:35
Si (401) I'm not telling you how made up you should be, I'm just drawing comparisons with previous summers of discontent. Summers and summers when we know the money should be there, but hasn't been spent, or has been explained away by the board that football finance is so complicated that you don't need to worry about it, but rest assured we're spending all the money on the team - look we've given xxxx a new contract!

When we have broken our transfer record and nearly doubled it (despite the drib and drab payment method) and not stealthily clawed it back through selling a major asset of the team (or Rodwell) then that is good news. I'm not fully convinced Lukaku will be the real deal but I'm happy that just for once, the club have backed the manager on this one and spent the money. Would you rather have had 7 X ٢m players? Valid point I guess but I can't see there being 𧴜m in the 'warchest' to flesh out the squad that everyone would like it to be done. Maybe it is second rate, but when you've seen third rate so many seasons on the spin, I'm thankful for small mercies.

Craig Fletcher
401 Posted 02/09/2014 at 00:36:32
John Daley (403).

I’ve seen some hilarious, world-class rants & jibes on ToffeeWeb, but that one is up there.

Thanks for that mate - had me in stitches.

Kevin Rowlands
402 Posted 02/09/2014 at 00:37:38
IN: Atsu, Barry, Besic, Eto’o, Galloway and Lukaku.
OUT: Gueyue, Velios, Kennedy (loan), Lundstram (loan).
RE-SIGNED: all our young prospects to longer and better deals, including Barkley, Stones, Coleman, Browning, McAleny and Garbutt.

Also, we had some important veterans sign longer-term deals in Howard and Baines. How anyone can say this was a poor window needs their head fucking testing; the squad is in the best shape for years.

Jackie Barry
403 Posted 02/09/2014 at 00:51:14
I just hope the defence comes good because, so far, Jags and Distin have been diabolical.
Si Cooper
404 Posted 02/09/2014 at 00:35:32
Ian, try this simple equation:

Lukaku + McCarthy = Fellaini + Jelavic + Anichebe + 㿀 million windfall bonus.

That is 41.5 million = 60 million.

Can you see the slight discrepancy???

Just because they have done it over a 12-month period we have still sold players to pay for those who have replaced them.

You may be dazzled by the club record fee but some of us can see how easily affordable it was at this moment in time.

Okay there are some minor comings and goings to factor in, but the Board have once again neglected to put extra into the playing staff in an effort to actually win something this year.

They will happily continue with their 'minimal expenditure x fingers crossed for a minor sporting miracle' approach until something happens to make someone prepared to meet their inflated price for the club.

Craig Fletcher
405 Posted 02/09/2014 at 00:47:56
Exactly, Kevin.

The exciting thing is the likes of Galloway, Browning, McAleny, Ledson, and Garbutt are likely to get some first XI playing time in the not too distant future too. HereÂ’s hoping most of these guys can have a similar impact as Stones / Barkley from last season.

CanÂ’t wait to see Oviedo on the field again sometime soon too.

ThereÂ’s a lot to be optimistic about.

Gavin Johnson
406 Posted 02/09/2014 at 00:42:52
Si, the view I had about Duffy was not unlike your own #348 (in that it seemed risky selling when we didnÂ’t have a replacement) I donÂ’t think he could have done any better against Costa on Saturday but I canÂ’t see how he would have done any worse.

Based on the number of games weÂ’ve got IMO, it would have seemed logical to have an extra body in..On the little IÂ’ve seen of him I rate him over Alcaraz any day of the week. Hopefully Browning will be able to step-up and make a name for himself just like Stones did last season.

Derek Thomas
407 Posted 02/09/2014 at 00:49:17

We were supposed to have a surplus from last seasons dealings + the TV money, yet we couldnÂ’t afford Cleverley, we couldnÂ’t go higher than ٦M for Shawcross...Damn those other operating costs, damn them all to hell... cuts to Charlton Heston on his knees in despair.

This reality check has come as a bit of a shock to most of us; on the live forum, ItÂ’s like the NoahÂ’s Ark on a Saturday night, people fighting with each other over nothing much, knocking beer and tables over.

Si Cooper
408 Posted 02/09/2014 at 01:05:07
Kevin - who is saying it has been poor (relative to our recent history)? It just hasnÂ’t been as absolutely amazing as some appear keen to make-out.

By the way, re-signing players, upping wages, and offering contracts to the youngsters happens every year. To lump them in with transfer activity is really stretching it. This is probably the first year we have had press-conferences to celebrate some of them though.

BillÂ’s Â’smoke and mirrorsÂ’ PR machine appears to be working very effectively.

Kevin Rowlands
409 Posted 02/09/2014 at 01:10:59
Si, in years past, Barkley would have been paraded around in a Man Utd shirt today... is your memory that short?

Overall, itÂ’s been a much more positive last year as an Everton fan in a long long time.

Chad Schofield
410 Posted 02/09/2014 at 01:08:41
John Daley (403), take a bow!

IÂ’m glad we tied things up early rather than doing everything on Sky Sports Day.

Gavin Johnson
411 Posted 02/09/2014 at 01:02:52
Si, On first impressions IÂ’d also be worried about Besic playing at centre back. I know he played in the Hungarian premier league, (mainly in defence) but whatÂ’s the level of standard there?!

On the little weÂ’ve seen Besic seems to play with a level of arrogance in his own abilities that could be his making, but only if he reigns it in! (Saturday was just stupidity) IÂ’d hazard a guess that the reason weÂ’ve seen so little of him so far is his cavalier attitude thatÂ’s going to be be punished in the EPL in way of conceding goals or yellow and red cards. IÂ’m thinking of the Celta Vigo game when he could have got sent off for a OTT challenge on Nolito. While itÂ’s great having a hard man in the team, you just canÂ’t get away with those kinds of challenges these days.

But yes, I agree that he could definitely become a defensive prospect some time in the future if he works on certain parts of his game.

Kevin Rowlands
412 Posted 02/09/2014 at 01:19:12
Also Si, there is 400 plus posts on this thread and I havenÂ’t seen a single one saying that this transfer window has been Â’amazingÂ’, just some very sensible posts that have said itÂ’s not as bad as some are making out.

Only 1½ seasons ago we had Phil fucking Neville starting for us in central midfield! Think about that for a minute.

David Ellis
413 Posted 02/09/2014 at 02:19:51
Actually I think it has been an amazing transfer window. Money spent big where needed (Lukaku), leading young players all signed up to longer contracts (with the exception of McCarthy), all outgoing loan players replaced, midfield cover added, and an experienced ex world class striker brought in as cover. Money not wasted. People do realise that the money has to come from somewhere and once we spent it has gone? The idea that spending a huge amount of money is automatically a good thing is very strange - it really depends on whether it is well spent and that depends on whether the signings work out.
Si Cooper
414 Posted 02/09/2014 at 02:13:57
Kevin, maybe not on this thread but anyone who has expressed the mildest dissatisfaction with the dealings as a whole has been jumped all over on TW for a few weeks now. That record transfer fee is always thrown in as if it says it all on itÂ’s own.

Well it doesnÂ’t, because if you take this transfer window in tandem with the last we have still sold players to buy others, and Ross Barkley was only saved because of a bumper deal from TV rights.

So things have not really changed at all. The Board are still unwilling or unable to invest at potentially pivotal points so once the extra TV money has all been absorbed by every player upping their share of the pot we will quickly be back to selling our brightest prospects to bring in a couple of lesser lights to pad out the squad.

I had hoped for more this summer, something that would really convince me that the Board would do all that they could to fulfill a reasonable ambition for the club on the pitch in the near future. I think the performances will improve from what we have seen so far, but over the season I expect that the squad we have will really struggle to mount challenges in both the league and one of the cup competitions - which is the minimum we should be aiming for - purely due to a relatively small lack of numbers (i.e. one that could have been satisfied with perhaps 3-4 additional players at 㾶-15 million in additional transfer/loan fees).

I would only have been satisfied with much more in the way of transfer dealings. For me, that could have included shipping out some more of the marginalised senior players to replace them with better players (Osman, Pienaar, Kone and Gibson may be decent players but there must be less risky / younger alternatives to be found somewhere). In short, it would have had to have been an amazing transfer window to exceed my expectations because with the money available and the managerÂ’s positive talk I EXPECTED a good one. If other people are more than satisfied they either think it WAS amazing or just have less ambition than I do.

Kevin Rowlands
415 Posted 02/09/2014 at 02:53:08
Si, I think youÂ’ll find that most of us on TW are not exactly enamored with the current ownership situation but we are also realistic, for most Everton fans of the last probably 15/20 years I would guess they feel itÂ’s been a very good window compared to previous ones, just out of interest and IÂ’m not being funny or sarcastic, what would have been an acceptable transfer window to you?
Gavin Johnson
416 Posted 02/09/2014 at 02:53:01
Si, Forgive me for saying, but having read many of your comments on TW I sometimes think you make some of your comments for dramatic affect. You contradict your own comments on #393 from what you originally said #348 in regards to selling Duffy. IÂ’m not sure if this because you changed your opinion or because you just wanted to be contrary to what someone else was saying?

I know our board has itÂ’s faults, but IÂ’m sure if youÂ’d have been told we were signing Lukaku. EtoÂ’o, Barry, Besic, Atsu and Galloway without selling any established stars at the start of the summer youÂ’d have been over the moon. Sure, it would have been nice if we could have bought in a couple of players yesterday (I still think we should have got in an established centre back in) but until we become uber rich benefactor we have to make the most of what weÂ’ve got.

A realistic complaint on this forum in the past is that lesser teams like Stoke and Swansea have out spent us and this has irked many, as it should do! Out the best of the rest teams, weÂ’ve spent as much as anyone this summer, so for that the board must be applauded. Nothings going to change overnight but weÂ’re certainly going in the right direction.

Jim Potter
417 Posted 02/09/2014 at 03:19:13
John 403. Waking up at 5am in Africa to see we had bought no one ... disappointed ... read your piece and marvelled at some of the prose. Thanks for cheering me up.
Si Cooper
418 Posted 02/09/2014 at 03:05:31
Kevin, FFS how many times do I have to say it IS acceptable as it is.

It just isnÂ’t good, very good, amazing, exciting or anything else that means anything more than basically satisfactory. It is essentially the same as most of those others over the last 20 years because any money spent was readily available through previous player sales and a 㿀 million windfall.

If you bothered to read what I had posted you would have seen the extra stuff I mentioned that would have really got my juices flowing. 3 or 4 addtional (ie, not just refilling the places left by loanees and the likes of Gueye and Vellios) decent senior players who would challenge current first choices for their place from the start of the season; moving on (for small profits were possible) players who are either really in decline or just huge fitness risks and replacing them with younger versions who are capable of 90 minutes week in week out for large parts of the season so we can practice decent squad rotation and minimise / cover the injuries we are likely to acquire by mounting a challenge on 4 fronts.

Yes EtoÂ’o is potentially a bonus, but if Kone doesnÂ’t ever fully recover and Lukaku gets injured then he is it as far as strikers go. Do you really want to gamble that he can handle being the main man for a long run of games. Most big clubs try to have 4 good options, we have one youngster, one veteran and one currently unclassified.

The same can be said of our central midfield (which performs a greater defensive role than many others are asked to). Some reinforcement in the shape of Besic but is it really enough if Gibson relapses and the years catch up with Barry all of a sudden?

It is the same story in defence (age/ fitness threaten 2 out of 4 at least) and in goal to a greater or lesser degree so it could be argued that we still havenÂ’t done enough to strengthen enough of the spine of the team.

Â’UnrealisticÂ’, I hear you shout, and that is exactly my point. The Â’realityÂ’ you cling to is the one determined by our continually unambitious Board who have proven yet again that they are unwilling to take a calculated risk when presented with a genuine opportunity to catapult the team into the echelons of those who enjoy the benefits that frequent European qualification can bring. This was a prime opportunity to strike. Clubs have shed excess players and we werenÂ’t in a position to take advantage of it. By next year all the prices will have gone up another notch and the 㿀 million extra wonÂ’t go as far as it would have this year.

Spragg Johnson
419 Posted 02/09/2014 at 04:02:02
I feel a lot of us are just getting greedy now ... if youÂ’d have told me eight weeks ago that weÂ’d sign Barry, Besic, Lukaku, EtoÂ’o and Galloway, get Atsu on loan and keep/re-sign Barkley, Coleman, McCarthy and Stones ... I have been a very excited chappie.
RM is giving this squad a chance ... and if weÂ’re not performing he will cut and then add in January.
Patience young grasshoppers ... patience.
Jackie Barry
420 Posted 02/09/2014 at 04:26:26
Spragg you just mentioned Galloway and it just got me thinking. I understand that he is a youngster but I am wondering if Martinez is really looking at the future here. He has assessed our youngsters deciding which ones will make the grade and which will not. He has then brought in players such as Galloway to fill voids. Based on the age he made his first team debut, 15 I believe, it could well be that we see this kid making the step up sooner rather than later.
This along with other things makes me more optimistic about what lies ahead than I have been for quite some time. I believe an exciting season lies ahead also with what still has to be considered our most exciting squad for as long as I can remember. Today was a downer but it just goes to show the new found expectations Everton fans now have.
Si Cooper
421 Posted 02/09/2014 at 03:45:18
Gavin, sometimes I post a general observation, sometimes (when I give a name) it is a direct response to what someone else has posted. If I find I do not agree with what they have posted then they will indeed tend to be contrary though not the contrary you are alluding to. I post to comment, make a point, never just for dramatic effect or just to cause an argument. Sometimes I find I have to skirt between extreme views of the same basic opinion.

On the subject of Shane Duffy, whilst I am surprised that any further reduction in senior squad players was permitted at such a late stage without apparent effort to replace him with better, I am not that bothered that he was allowed to go and I 100% donÂ’t believe that he could have changed the results of the first three games. In fact I believe he is less capable overall than either the erratic Jagielka or the slightly-less-age-defying Distin. He may not have replicated Jags comedy of errors in the Chelsea game but I still believe Costa would have relished in exploiting his inherent weaknesses.

That said, I do think that he would have proved useful at some stage of the season against lesser opposition in the early stages of the League Cup, or when we were down to bare bones and others needed resting for more important games. I think it is evident he was at the bottom of the rankings of our senior central defenders, and the versatility of Besic and Hibbert coupled with the imminent emergence of junior players may have meant the manager only expected to use him a handful of times. In that event it would have been grossly unfair to keep him hanging on when he had the opportunity to make a proper career for himself elsewhere.

So whilst there may have been a different slant on the same subject, it certainly doesnÂ’t mean they are opposing views or that my first post meant I couldnÂ’t disagree with the thrust of your later comments.

Lukaku for Lukaku, Barry for Barry, EtoÂ’o for Traore, Atsu for Deulofeu. So that is two like for like and two that most people are viewing as upgrades. Fair enough but no more than I expected considering it was necessary to pretty much remain where we were for most of last season. Closer scrutiny reveals Barry is even further into his Â’twilight yearsÂ’ and EtoÂ’o replaces a much younger man. Is older Barry just as good? Well he wonÂ’t get better, but he could get worse. A younger Â’BarryÂ’ is what we needed ideally (if one could be located). Old EtoÂ’o versus young Traore is a moot point because Traore was never actually made available, but whether we could have got another promising young striker in on loan is debatable. Still count Samuel as a plus though. All we really know about Atsu so far is that he is potentially the best winger we have this season.

God how I would have complained if we were relying on Darron Gibson to cover both Barry and McCarthy. Besic was a simple necessity even before Barkley got injured and I wuld have welcomed another mobile central defender being brought in today because I think being able to rotate those positions regularly will be key to our success this season. I would rather use Osman for an advanced midfield role exclusively.

Galloway is a complete unknown quantity for me. Not yet ready for first team duties and unproven at this level so no, I am not that excited about him. Would have been more excited by a Martins-Indi or an Alderweireld to be honest and I canÂ’t tell you much about them apart from the fact they are both established internationals with a lot of their career ahead of them.

If you want to fixate on what we spend relative to the likes of Stoke and Swansea then that is up to you. If you take net spend over the last two years I am not that sure we would outstrip them anyway, and that needs to be considered because there was obviously an intention to carry over the money we raised from player sales last summer as long as possible to generate something with the wow factor this year. You seem content to be contending for best of the rest, whereas I think we had an opportunity to cement ourselves in the top five with a trophy to boot.

Paul Kelly
422 Posted 02/09/2014 at 04:50:11
Well, even though there were no new signings, seeing the SSN reporter getting a purple Rampant Rabbit shoved in his ear hole on the live broadcast from Finch Farm was comedy gold.
Gavin Johnson
423 Posted 02/09/2014 at 05:40:04
Si, IÂ’m not fixated on what these lesser teams spend relative to us. I mentioned them to show that this transfer window is a millions years away from some windows in the last few years..What about the 2011/12 summer when we hadnÂ’t signed anyone for around 18 months and made two dubious loan signings and then sold our talisman midfielder for less than he was worth. At the time itÂ’s fair to say that most peoples grumbles were that we should be at least competitive with these lesser teams..It was insulting that teams like Wolves were able to spend more than us.

We all know the boards inadequacies but thereÂ’s been a sea change this summer..Remember when we could only afford to have one player earning 70k a week, so we sold peanut for peanuts (forgive the pun) because Arteta was valued more highly and we couldnÂ’t afford to give Peanaar parity on earnings. While thereÂ’s a lot of merit in your points I donÂ’t think youÂ’ve put enough onus on the players weÂ’ve retained; Barkley, Stones and Coleman. Now weÂ’ve got several players earning those kind of wages.

Even if the money was saved over from other transfers to give a Â’wowÂ’ factor this summer..Personally IÂ’d prefer us to use the extra TV revenue to get our house in order so weÂ’re in the black with the banks making us more attractive to a potential buyer. And we can build year upon year (albeit slowly in a sustainable way) rather than going on spending spree that could mean we end up doing a Leeds or Pompey when we donÂ’t get that fourth place.

Mike Powell
424 Posted 02/09/2014 at 06:05:52
No centre halves... we are in trouble with that defence we have got. IÂ’m well and truly pissed off. We can forget about a trophy this season.
Kunal Desai
425 Posted 02/09/2014 at 06:46:11
I think with the involvement of Europa league I canÂ’t see us finishing higher than 7th in the league, injuries and suspensions will undoubtedly catch up with us as the campaign goes on and iÂ’m still unsure Jags/Distin will will plug whatÂ’s already a leaky defence.
James Hill
426 Posted 02/09/2014 at 06:46:34
Bollocks about the defence we have plenty of options available. Load nonsense, do you all think Mourhino was happy with his defence and we scored good goals. They got 4 porky goals sometimes luck goes against you. A change of formation could equally resolve the issue.

Also you might notice that twice McCarthy struggled to keep up with his man and they scored. No cover in front of back four on several occasion causing the centre backs to come forwards to block shots, one got deflected. Jags missed judged the the 1st one trying the offside trap and Besic well if you didnÂ’t see that your blind. Individual mistakes happen.

Three clean sheets coming up. Some of you have another look at the game. Turn the sound down it helps.

Neil Cremin
427 Posted 02/09/2014 at 06:49:57
The transfer has just about kept the status quo with an ageing squad in vital positions which any astute manager would exploit. Mourihno has shown the way for othe managers. If we have ambition we should be improving the weaknesses in the squad. Everton need:

Right back cover
Centre half young, aggressive and ball playing.
Creative midfielder who can see the openings that our already overstocked forwards can create.

ItÂ’s actually funny to read some of the threads over the years. Two years ago (after the cup semi-final), people wanted Shamie sold. Last year it was Naismith no look at the threads.

I believe Gibson is a great passer of the ball and sees the spaces who would link up the play. Play him instead of Barry. That still leaves a very dodgy centre-half pairing and very little options to try something new.

I fear for our season especially with those extra Europa league games.

Phil Walling
428 Posted 02/09/2014 at 07:07:06
Kunal, when will you learn that it is a cardinal sin to suggest a Â’seventhishÂ’ finish ?

Having said that, IÂ’m sure weÂ’ll make it. We have to see the first half dozen matches as our pre-season - the defence will get their legs back ere long and things will get back to normal.

Now thereÂ’s confidence for you !

Jim Bennings
429 Posted 02/09/2014 at 07:02:35
Guys,

Playing Besic centre halve is just a mental thought.

He is new to the Premier League and by all accounts from reports that fans in Hungary have said, he has struggled with discipline and apparently is a bit of a Marco Boogers character (nut-job who used to play for West Ham for those who donÂ’t know)

He has played in a poor standard league in Hungary and he will only be given starts in Europe and the league cup youÂ’d imagine. Martinez loves Barry and McCarthy so heÂ’s never going to break that partnership up unless it is forced upon by injury.

That makes it all the more bizarre why Martinez was chasing Cleverley yesterday. There is clearly somebody he isnÂ’t quite convinced about in that central midfield, and itÂ’s either Gibson will never be the same influence because of his injuries, or Barkley will be out longer than we are led to believe.

We should have been going out there doing our best to bring in a capable central defender.

There ainÂ’t no pressure on them to perform at the back now, Howard knows he wonÂ’t get dropped for Robles no matter how he performs. Likewise Jagielka and Distin, both know they are the first choice pairing, Martinez rates them both a little too much.

James Hill
430 Posted 02/09/2014 at 07:29:08
Jim Nennings you have to be a wind up merchant.
Joe Bibb
431 Posted 02/09/2014 at 07:47:20
No one came in for Howard or Jags. IÂ’m a bit disappointed.
Peter Barnes
432 Posted 02/09/2014 at 07:49:04
Gavin.42. Good post. I am as concerned about both the centre of defence as everyone else. And I include the GK who really lost it on Saturday imo. But he is a good keeper and the two central midfielders need to up their game also.

Hopefully Gibson can get match fit soon. I have always rated him personally. Whether he gets back to what he was only time will tell.

I am a little mystified in the sale of Duffy though. I presume RM just felt he was not going to make it however with the Europa coming up I would have thought he would have been useful.

Ian Jones
433 Posted 02/09/2014 at 08:11:43
Easy to say after the disappointing Chelsea game but I think we should focus on supporting the team as a whole and not look at criticising individual players. In the main part they have all been good players for Everton over the years. I think losing the points against Arsenal and Leicester in the way we did is more of a worry. I donÂ’t believe a defence can fall apart so easily and so quickly.

We seem to have far more attacking opportunities/instincts now than early last season which is great to watch.

May be better for Martinez to sacrifice a little of our attacking instinct, get him to play to our defensive strengths rather than getting our defenders to adjust to Martinez style in the short term whilst he tries to find players to fit into his system. Might help plug the gaps in defence in the short term. Good thing is we wonÂ’t play Chelsea every week

Zahir Jaffer
434 Posted 02/09/2014 at 08:36:29
Yes we finally did it! We actually went a whole season without selling somebody! This is a miracle in itself! So close to making it happen though
Harold Matthews
435 Posted 02/09/2014 at 07:48:29
IÂ’m trying to go with the ex Chelsea international who told Sky Sports that scoring goals was the most difficult task in football and defensive problems are more easily fixed. LetÂ’s hope heÂ’s right. The Cleverley fiasco highlighted RobertoÂ’s disinterest in strengthening at the back.

Yes, judging by the reports, I think theyÂ’ve discovered that Galloway is a class above the U21s.

Also, now that Tylas Browning is no longer in awe of the senior players, he will continue to improve at a rapid rate.

Since returning from Colchester, Garbutt has been a revelation. A new star for the England U21s, he should have a good future.

Not sure what to do with Stones and Besic. Two very talented lads with one slightly tougher than the other. Both need to learn that Premier League players will rob you of the ball if you dwell on it. Standards have risen and there is no longer room for fancy stuff in defensive areas. Hopefully they will bring a little more discipline and urgency into their game but some things are easier said than done. Two very exciting young prospects nevertheless.

Denis Richardson
436 Posted 02/09/2014 at 09:11:25
Woke up in hope but alas not to be. Bit down this morning but had anyone told me in June that we would sign; Rom, Barry, Atsu, Besic and EtoÂ’o(!) this window, get Barkley, Coleman, Baines and Stones to sign extended contracts and get rid of deadwood like Geuye and Vellios - I would have thought them bonkers.

It was too much to hope for last years last day drama but taking a step back its been a decent window. Martinez needs to sort the defense out sharpish and best way to start imo is giving the captain a rest and playing Stones and Distin in the middle next game.

Would also not be a bad idea to change the captain at some point.

David Graves
437 Posted 02/09/2014 at 09:28:13
John DaleyÂ’s submission the highlight of the transfer window?
Duncan McDine
438 Posted 02/09/2014 at 09:28:43
I agree Denis, the players that have come in are beyond my expectations.... we now have to start playing to our capabilities.

Harold - I think there is some truth in the statement that scoring goals is the hardest thing in football. It is quite possible to create a strong defensive unit while caryring some less talented players, but to score goals in the top flight, you do need top class players.

I just hope we can start to show the strengths we had last season and get this season going. Everyone seems to be talking about dropping Jags, and he has made a lot of errors in our first 3 games... I just hope Roberto knows whatÂ’s required to stop leaking goals (10 in 3 games!).

Colin Glassar
439 Posted 02/09/2014 at 09:17:52
IÂ’m quite happy, no, IÂ’m more than happy with our transfer dealings this summer. We got our 20 goal a season striker, a solid, experienced MF player like Barry, a young, tough enforcer like Besic etc.....

I know many of you wouldÂ’ve liked to have done a Hull yesterday and brought in 4-5 players (11 overall which is mental) but big, established clubs donÂ’t do that do they? ItÂ’s the perennial strugglers who are desperate to survive in the prem that use each window as though itÂ’s some sort of manic jumble sale.

We did make an effort to sign Nastasic and Cleverley yesterday Nastasic turned us down and united refused to loan us Cleverley as they wanted an unrealistic transfer fee. We also enquired about Shawcross and another defender. When youÂ’re a top club you just donÂ’t go out and buy any old flotsam thatÂ’s lying around there on the cheap. ThatÂ’s what the likes of Hull, WHU, QPR, Stoke do and thatÂ’s why they are mid-table, or lower, teams. This isnÂ’t football manager, this isnÂ’t FIFA2015, this is the real world where the stakes are incredibly high, managers have to know exactly what type of players they want/need, fees, contracts, agents etc..all have to be sorted.

I’m only writing this as I’ve noticed that the usual Martinez haters have been out in force yesterday and today with their usual bile. One in particular who shall remain unnamed but who’s initials are the same as a well known whisky. Posting every 5 minutes saying "I wanted Ben Arfa, I wanted Nastasic, I wanted Tom, Dick and Harry etc..." Roberto is taking us down, Roberto is clueless, where’s the money gone, I’m upset, I’m angry boo hoo," — Well you know what pal? You are not the fucking manager. You don’t make the decisions. You are just like the rest of us, a mere fan (well, I hope you are) who is entitled to your opinions but ffs give it a rest will ya?

Sorry for the rant but as some of you feel entitled to criticise Martinez I also feel entitled to defend him, when necessary, against some of the hate filled, unfair comments I sometimes see on here.

Brent Stephens
440 Posted 02/09/2014 at 09:58:44
Happy with the window. You know the names. We actually played some great stuff against Chelsea. Now sort the defensive side and WBA is 3 points. Got me ticket!
Nicholas Page
441 Posted 02/09/2014 at 10:11:36
Good points, Col. I reckon we still need some investment in central defence though (who can play in this system). And letÂ’s get some wins on the board after the break!

COYB

Craig Fletcher
442 Posted 02/09/2014 at 09:57:55
Thanks CG for the sensible post. Three months back if I was told weÂ’d have the squad that we do today, IÂ’d be more than happy.

Of course come transfer day the inclination is to be greedy and wish for A/B/C to be signing, but the real world ainÂ’t like that for the varied reasons Colin states.

Two points from three games isnÂ’t ideal but its very early doors in the season. Performances havenÂ’t been terrible; and weÂ’ll only get better.

Rick Tarleton
443 Posted 02/09/2014 at 10:25:14
I would have liked to see another central defender, I think weÂ’ve got an excess of wide men and I felt Duffy was competent and should have been kept if possible. However the lad may have felt that realistically a good championship club was his best hope for regular first team football, so good luck to him.
Colin Glassar
444 Posted 02/09/2014 at 10:28:11
Thanks lads, some of the vitriol directed at Martinez last night was out of order some, even questioning his mental state, for godÂ’s sake.

I agree we needed defensive cover (or replacements) but, apparently, we tried with Shawcross, Nastasic and Rolando but none of them came off. What are we supposed to do? Just grab any available player to satisfy the thirst of a few desperate fans? It doesnÂ’t work that way. Cleverley was another player we tried to get, no to everyoneÂ’s fancy but we tried. HeÂ’s not a player I particularly admire but some comments last night were comparing him to some League 2 journeyman.

The signings of Lukaku and Barry have been criticised, Besic criticised for a rookie mistake, AtsuÂ’s presence questioned due to the ACON etc... I know fans are fickle but the window is closed now so letÂ’s close ranks and get behind the manager and the team .............until January at least.

Trevor Lynes
445 Posted 02/09/2014 at 11:02:51
I tend to agree with you, Colin; we have had a reasonable window and if the Chelsea defeat had not been so heavy, I donÂ’t think that there would have been such a clamour for centre-backs.

Missing out on Cleverley is a plus as far as I am concerned as he is not the type of player IMO who will improve the squad. I really wish we could compete for top players but, as this does not seem to be the case, we will be also-rans again for the foreseeable future. The gap is actually widening and I am a bit concerned that the pack who have been behind us for years are now closing.

Players like Distin, EtoÂ’o and Barry will need to be replaced in perhaps January or definitely the end of the season. We have a few decent kids IMO in Stones, Garbutt and Besic waiting in the wings. None of the others have stepped up sufficiently to threaten the first team. Hopefully we will have Kone, Oviedo and Gibson back soon?

I cannot fathom the Henen situation. Why are we taking him on loan? We seem to be helping his development to aid Olympiakos in the future. This is quite a conundrum. We have kept him at Finch Farm all expenses paid without anything in return. Unless I have missed something!!

Derek Knox
446 Posted 02/09/2014 at 11:02:10
Well put Colin, I can understand the frustration of some fans( myself included by the way) at the failure to get at least one defensive addition, considering that we let Duffy go, and while he was unlikely to be the answer,was nevertheless cover. It did appear to most, that his departure would pave the way for an arrival in that position. Alas, that never transpired or indeed neither triggered any search in that direction. Again only time will tell, but it is an area for genuine concern in my opinion looking to the season and the competitions ahead.

I cannot however condone the vitriolic diatribe aimed in RobertoÂ’s direction and some of our fellow TWÂ’ers probably realise in the cold light of day, that they were out of order, and would hopefully retract any such statements, or by way of mitigation apologise.

What was far more frustrating, was the sighting of Riquelme with the strawberry ice-cream, and the kebab eating Moutinho look-alike, have apparently been abducted by Aliens, and according to NASA and the UFO Society reports, are unlikely, if at all to be seen at least till January.

Denis Richardson
447 Posted 02/09/2014 at 11:19:43
Just had one final thought on this whole transfer lark - forget all the ins and outs, what other clubs did, what we didnÂ’t do.....only one thing really sticks in my mind.

WE SIGNED SAMUEL ETOÂ’O!!!

ThatÂ’s enough for me. Bring on the rest of the season and all comers in the EL.

Colin Glassar
448 Posted 02/09/2014 at 11:28:08
Cheers Derek, only a 130 odd days until the madness begins once again. I want............. No, I demand we buy..........
Steve Jenkins
449 Posted 02/09/2014 at 11:45:08
IÂ’ll also add that Rome wasnÂ’t built in a day & when you look at the squad we have now compared to when Roberto took over its significantly better.

There are still some positions where we need strengthen, we all no where they are, unfortunately we only get some much to spend per window/season.

Squad wise RobertoÂ’s had far more catching up to do than the 4 CL clubs & United (just look at what theyÂ’ve spent this window).

We progressed significantly & IÂ’m confident the areas that need strengthening will be addressed over the coming 2 seasons.

Steavey Buckley
450 Posted 02/09/2014 at 12:00:53
Everton should still scour the market for another CB who is out of contract, because I dread the forthcoming season with both Jagielka and Distin in the team. They have both been inept and not just off the pace, but half asleep.
John Voigt
451 Posted 02/09/2014 at 12:06:12
This wasnÂ’t a good summer, it was a great summer. Everton have better strikers than Arsenal or Spurs. That gives the lads a fighting chance.

Yes, adding a defender was important, but more important was re-signing the core group of players including Baines, Stones, Barkley and Coleman.

The wage bill at Everton has gone up quite a bit compared to a couple of seasons ago (to me, thatÂ’s where the money went). But IÂ’m really impressed that in his time with the club Roberto Martinez has only lost one first-team player (and that was Fellaini for 㿈 million).

Alan Humphreys
452 Posted 02/09/2014 at 13:12:42
BBC website has headline of Cleverley going on loan to Aston Villa – "The deal was struck late on transfer deadline day on Monday and must be sanctioned by the league’s board".

Now, similar to Falcao and Welbeck and Ben Arfa, clubs have had all summer to sign players, the deadline is the deadline – no extensions, if you can’t get it done by 11pm on 1 September 2014 then tough titties. Think of the millions that would have been saved – in Falcao’s wages alone!

Wished weÂ’d grabbed Ben Arfa mind you, even at 11:10 pm!

Paul Smith
453 Posted 02/09/2014 at 13:05:59
I think overall the window has been a successful one and there are just some kneejerck reactions to a bad defensive performance against Chelsea. That performance for me was partly RobertoÂ’s fault as we shouldÂ’ve started with 3 central midfielders instead of a 4-2-4 formation which left us exposed.

It is going to be an interesting few months but hopefully an exciting one as we wonÂ’t come up against the likes of Chelsea every week. The plus point was definitely EtoÂ’o who looked very lively when he came on and Lukaku definitely has competition for his place now.

For years we moaned about OFM being too negative which is why we had a good defensive record and I am glad were looking to be more offensive but maybe against other top 6 teams we should look to play the 3 in central midfield to start.

Steavey Buckley
454 Posted 02/09/2014 at 13:20:01
What is so frustrating with the efforts to sign Cleverley was EvertonÂ’s greater need to sign at least one CB, because under the present defensive arrangements, Everton will need to score at least 3 goals to win a match even against the likes of West Brom away.
Patrick Murphy
455 Posted 02/09/2014 at 13:24:34
Alan, and the other strange thing is that the loan period only lasts until January. Why wouldn’t Man Utd loan to us for that period and then sell in January – unless of course the wages were too much for our pay structure? I can’t see Villa paying all of his wages though.
Patrick Murphy
456 Posted 02/09/2014 at 13:27:20
Steavey, as Phil Neville said last night, he thinks Man Utd need defensive players; there are not many class CBs out there. Who knows – RM might just believe that our defenders aren’t quite as useless as some people believe and that spending money wouldn’t necessarily solve the problem at the back. We might go on to get 20 clean-sheets on the trot, nobody can predict the future and if we could we would all be Billioinaires and own our clubs.
Colin Glassar
457 Posted 02/09/2014 at 13:29:06
Patrick, the Mancs probably werenÂ’t interested in a loan as they now see us as a direct threat to their chances of a top 4 place. In the recent past, Fergie was prepared to do these types of deals with his adopted son but, since both father and child have quit the scene, that relationship has now ended.

No more Manc cast-offs, no more young Evertonians to Mancunia, no more sly, underhand, backstabbing deals between our manager and theirs. ItÂ’s game on now. So... letÂ’s get ready to rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrumble.

Si Cooper
458 Posted 02/09/2014 at 13:00:50
"Rather than going on spending spree that could mean we end up doing a Leeds or Pompey when we don’t get that fourth place" — ah, the good old ’careful what you wish for’ argument, Gavin.

But I am careful what I wish for; I suggested 2 or 3 more additions would have made the transfer window much better for me and suggested something like an extra 㾶-15 million could have made that happen. I wasnÂ’t demanding Champions League, just a really good chance to be able to sustain a challenge on at least two fronts to keep the club on the radar of potential supporters, sponsors and investors.

According to our resident expert, Colin G, it seems that the manager was of the same mind and effort was spent trying to bring in 2 first team ready individuals. I donÂ’t have too much of a problem that they failed if the effort was genuine but it would have been better overall if they had succeeded.

DonÂ’t care about the details for now, but is it official that Henen is with us for the season?

David Chait
459 Posted 02/09/2014 at 13:43:47
I have to give credit on one thing... Whether we felt Cleverly had a role or not in the side, management didn’t go for it just to get a head and pulled out as the deal didn’t make sense. I for one breathed a huge sigh of relief — not because I don’t like the player, but because I felt he would have pushed Besic further down the order.
Kevin Rowlands
460 Posted 02/09/2014 at 13:39:05
IÂ’m sure most on here, if shown the ins and outs before the window opened, would have been very satisfied; I know I am. I also disagree that we needed three or four extra new faces because, if that had happened, the likes of Garbutt, Galloway, MaCaleny, Browning and now Henen would have seen very limited playing time or first team opportunities, RM has already stated he feels most of them are ready to step up, I would suggest they are the new faces we will see this season and for me thatÂ’s a good thing.

As for the CB position, could it be possible that Martinez is giving them a vote of confidence and believes in them, hence bringing no-one in? They did after all have the third-best EPL defensive record last season and I personally am not ready to give up on them yet.

Also, in Stones we have one of the best young CBs in the league and the MK Dons manager stated that Galloway has the potential to go to the very top. I donÂ’t think weÂ’re as weak there as some would have us believe.

Pete Edwards
461 Posted 02/09/2014 at 14:02:55
Who cares what money the likes of Wolves, Stoke, or Hull spend? I couldn’t give the flying proverbial. I’d prefer to look at where we end up compared to these teams at the end of the season. After all, isn’t this how success is measured – not by how big your transfer pot was!

Get a grip people and look at how far we have come over the last 12 months. Jeeesh!

Steavey Buckley
462 Posted 02/09/2014 at 14:19:44
"We might go on to get 20 clean-sheets on the trot" — Stats don’t lie. Everton are conceding over 3 goals a game. Last season, Everton conceded just 2 goals in the first 3 games of last season, at an average of 0.666 goals per game. But that was last season, not this.

And against Chelsea and Arsenal last season, Everton conceded no goals to them at home. (No wonder Everton had so many clean sheets.) This season, it is 8 goals conceded to them at home.

Denis Richardson
463 Posted 02/09/2014 at 14:39:59
Can we get to 500 posts for this thread?

Must be approaching a record on TW surely...

Dean Adams
464 Posted 02/09/2014 at 14:41:27
Just glad that Roberto wasnÂ’t reading the live thread last night. It was rather bizarre.
Kevin Tully
465 Posted 02/09/2014 at 14:53:18
Dean - I must lead a sheltered life. Some of those conversations on the live forum had to be drug induced.

My favourite (Of all time - anything IÂ’ve ever read) was this gem ; "You canÂ’t compare Ferry to Hitler." Said in all seriousness. You had to be there.

Shane Corcoran
466 Posted 02/09/2014 at 15:01:33
Steavey, stats donÂ’t lie but at the same they prove nothing except the actual statistic.

YouÂ’ve given us a few stats but what you take from it isnÂ’t necessarily true.

I assume youÂ’re trying to say that EvertonÂ’s defense is worse than last season. I could counter that by saying itÂ’s not and that Arsenal and Chelsea have better attacks.

If you think our defense is worse then itÂ’s better just to say so and highlight where players made mistakes than quote stats based on three games.

Steavey Buckley
467 Posted 02/09/2014 at 15:06:21
I assume youÂ’re trying to say that EvertonÂ’s defense is worse than last season. I could counter that by saying itÂ’s not and that Arsenal and Chelsea have better attacks.

The goals Everton conceded against both Arsenal and Chelsea were bordering on criminal. Jagielka and Distin were not just short of half a yard, they were half asleep.

I have to agree for once with Jamie Carragaher, who said that a good defender has to be paranoid and anticipate a threat even before it exists and happens - not when they are half asleep, they canÂ’t.

Gavin Johnson
468 Posted 02/09/2014 at 15:14:55
Si, IÂ’m sorry but I think you are being very Augustus Gloop like #380 and should be satisfied with your fill
Raymond Fox
469 Posted 02/09/2014 at 15:25:15
Steavey, you mention our home game last season with Chelsea, where Chelsea were goalless.
Yes they were, but I lost count of the number of chances of a goal they had, we were very fortunate to win 1-0.

As Shane says you cant really compare one season from another for many reasons, even Â’Â’dame fortuneÂ’ can be different from one year to the next!

Derek Thomas
470 Posted 02/09/2014 at 15:43:06

So thatÂ’s it then, despite a rumoured surplus from last yearÂ’s dealings, plus the latest tranche of TV money, we wouldnÂ’t go higher than ٦M for Shawcross and who knows how much for whoever else. I suppose itÂ’s one of the pieces of collateral damage from SaturdayÂ’s loss (along with the ever pervasive Â’Other Operating CostsÂ’... and the Stoke Chairman: "TheyÂ’re desperate – bung another couple of Million on.")

Looks like Roberto and his coaching staff have got to sort it out Internally, by playing the players they have in a way that mitigated the fact that Jagielka and Distin (and maybe others) are not in the best form of their lives. As you canÂ’t turn back the clock or wave a magic wand over poor form, it seems to me that the only way is to limit the number of times the defence gets put under pressure. Limit the number of tickets the opposition is allowed to buy in the raffle that is our back 5.

Possession is one method; Roberto is rightly Â’bigÂ’ on this. They canÂ’t score if they havenÂ’t got the ball... and we canÂ’t score if we donÂ’t have it. But, as we have seen, this season and last, us (and Spurs) having 60% possession or more can mean nothing.

Forget the first 3 mins and the 2-goal start. Yes, Chelsea had all of the possession for 3 mins and did something with it, however lucky with offsides and whatever else they may have been; look at the other 87mins...

For most of the first half, we bossed the possession, we scored first, right on half-time, which is supposed to be good. In the second half they scored 4 to our 2. You can say that not many sides can play that way – they neither have the players to play that way, nor the money to buy the likes of Diego Costa.

Shane Corcoran
471 Posted 02/09/2014 at 15:43:28
Steavey, thatÂ’s a much better analysis.
Steavey Buckley
472 Posted 02/09/2014 at 16:06:46
Raymond Fox: The defending so far this season has been appalling. The Everton manager and players agree. But what is the game plan going to be, to stop goals just flying in? The attack has done their job, 7 goals in 3 matches, but 10 goals conceded in 3 is just totally unacceptable. Yet, there was no new acquisition to try and put this right.

Si Cooper
473 Posted 02/09/2014 at 16:15:48
David Chait (#470) - are you Mo BesicÂ’s agent / bessie mate? If Cleverley pushed him down the order then it would surely only be because he was the better player. Maybe you should just admit that you donÂ’t like the player.

Now reported on Sky Sports that a season long loan deal for Cleverley at Villa has been approved. Presumably we are too close a rival of Manure for them to strengthen us without making us pay through the nose for it.

Kevin Rowlands (471) - "As for the CB position, could it be possible that Martinez is giving them a vote of confidence and believes in them, hence bringing no-one in? They did after all have the third-best EPL defensive record last season and I personally am not ready to give up on them yet.

Also, in Stones we have one of the best young CBs in the league and the MK Dons manager stated that Galloway has the potential to go to the very top. I donÂ’t think weÂ’re as weak there as some would have us believe."

All well and good except it doesnÂ’t really tally with Colin GÂ’s assurances that up to three deals for first-team-ready senior CBs were looked at yesterday. Perhaps the players wonÂ’t hear about them and have their feelings hurt?

Si Cooper
474 Posted 02/09/2014 at 16:31:23
Steavey - the defending has been very bad at times, but not all the time and people are over-reacting somewhat to something that may just be an early season blip. It has mainly been individual lapses and not systemic faults, so that should be something that can be worked on without wholesale changes. If we were getting battered all game and regularly allowing more attempts on our goal than we were getting at the other end against teams who donÂ’t perform against others in the same way then there would be a reason to consider clearing house.

As it is, it is a time to regroup and have a thorough look at things to try to determine a root cause that can then be dealt with appropriately. That still may come down to just getting the same players to perform at the levels they have done before. I am always happy when the club look to strengthen the senior squad whenever possible, but not having been able to bring the right person in at the right price is not necessarily the end of the world.

Gavin Johnson
475 Posted 02/09/2014 at 16:44:28
IÂ’m sure we made enquiries about bringing a centre back in yesterday but I think the Shawcross one was pure speculation on the back of SaturdayÂ’s result. As if weÂ’d have sanctioned a deal for 㾸-15M which would have been a ball park figure of what heÂ’d have cost.

Mark Hughes was only lauding him as the best defender in England on Sunday. Does anyone believe Stoke would have even considered a deal of ٦M (the alleged bid offered) especially on deadline day? Phil McNulty said as much yesterday on the BBC. Put that story down to pure fantasy football!

Steavey Buckley
476 Posted 02/09/2014 at 16:49:42
Defenders like other positions at the highest level have their time when it is their time to go. Against Chelsea, Martinez should have taken off Jagielka and put on Stones when it was 0:2 because it could have gotten worse at the time, when actually it did. The signs on the wall about poor defending was there for all to see before the Chelsea game, it just happened to get worse, thatÂ’s all during the Chelsea match.

I watched Chelsea play Burnley and thought Costa looked quite average. The Burnley defenders coped with him quite well, even though he scored a goal in a goal mouth scramble - but nothing special. But when Costa played against Jagielka and Distin they both made him look better than he really is. And that is going to be the problem when Jagielka and Distin face other strikers of average talent.

Chris James
477 Posted 02/09/2014 at 15:57:56
One thing IÂ’m getting really tired of is the amateur accountancy by some posters on ToffeeWeb.

We get the stock stupid statements like Â’LukakuÂ’s paid over instalments so thatÂ’s only really ٤M spentÂ’ which is all good apart from the fact it convenient ignores the fact that a) this is pretty much how an increasingly large %ge of transfers are working out (including Rooney and without a doubt Fellaini for instance) and b) regardless of whatÂ’s paid now, we do actually have to put aside the rest of the money so that it can be paid in the future.
Lukaku wasnÂ’t ٤M, it was 㿈M. Plus signing on fee. Plus agent fee. And thatÂ’s before we get to wages or related fees and bonuses.

Then we had this little gem from Si Cooper earlier in the feed...
"Lukaku + McCarthy = Fellaini + Jelavic + Anichebe + 㿀 million windfall bonus.
That is 41.5 million = 60 million."

Where to start?
First, how about we look at the ACTUAL signings in the last 3 windows...

Transfers Out: 㿕.5M
> Fellaini - 㿇.5M
> Jelavic - ٤.5M
> Anichebe - ٤M
> Duffy - ٟ.5M
> Gueye - Free
> Vellios - Free
> Heitinga - Free
> Bidwell - Free

Transfers In: 㿮.3M
Lukaku (loan fee of ١M?) + 㿈M
McCarthy - 㾹M
Kone - ٤M
Besic - ٢.8M
Galloway ١M?
Robles - ٠M
Barry (loan fee of ٟM?) ٟM
McGeady - ٟ.5M
Stanek - ٟM
Atsu (loan fee of ٟM?)
EtoÂ’o - Free
Alcaraz - Free

This includes estimated loan fees out (but not in), but it doesnÂ’t include signing on fees or agents fees, which I think you can expect to add another 10% at least (and thatÂ’s being very conservative).
The net expenditure then looks to me more like 㿅-31M, which accounts for 㿀M of Â’windfallÂ’ cash and then some.

ThatÂ’s not the end of the story mind, as weÂ’ve not included the signing on fees and increased wages with new long term contracts for Barkley, Baines, Stones and Coleman - this could easily be another ١-5M for signing on fees.

Last but most definitely not least are wages. With increased deals for youth, some older proven players getting a fair whack (EtoÂ’o isnÂ’t really Â’freeÂ’ you know) and an overall increase in the quality of the first team squad and I guess youÂ’ll be looking at another 10-20% cost increase across the year of what is the real big bill.

Consider just for a minute an average weekly wage last year was c. 㿊k across our first team squad of 24 players plus the manager and youÂ’re looking at 𧾦k per week or 㿓M per year (not inc other staff or youth teams), then add another 10% to this for appearance fees and bonuses and youÂ’re basically on your way to 㿙M. Push that to 㿏k p/week and youÂ’re adding another ٤-7M that has to be found.

The biggest issue I have with these statements however is the assumption that every pound coming in and then some should go out in transfer fees, often on players that arenÂ’t really going to improve what we have. This model may make some sense in the mythical world in which Chelsea and Man City do business (you know the one in which a business can routinely absorb more and more losses), but for most enterprises there needs to be some profit, at the very least to build a buffer and some flexibility ideally allowing us to do things that will advance the core business (bigger/updated stadia, training programs, etc).

I appreciate that footballÂ’s not quite like other businesses, but it does still have to obey some basic rules and ultimately IÂ’d much rather be like Arsenal than like Man City or Chelsea. These clubs have bought their trophies pure and simple in a manner which I think is fundamentally unfair and makes a mockery of the whole idea of the Premier League as a Â’sportingÂ’ competition. And I believe at some point the model they operate will be ruled out, ideally via a move to a capped expenditure system thatÂ’s similar to the NFL and in which extra income with tough penalties for infringement (e.g. points deductions).
As for those who operate beyond their means without a billionaire backer, well thereÂ’s plenty of examples showing what can happen when you follow that path - Leeds, Portsmouth, Rangers. Would you ever want Everton to gamble our survival and proud history for the chance of one season in the Champions League? I really wouldnÂ’t. When we succeed itÂ’ll be on our terms and all the sweeter for it. IMWT.

Gavin Johnson
478 Posted 02/09/2014 at 17:08:23
Good post Chris
Matt Traynor
479 Posted 02/09/2014 at 17:15:44
Chris #489 WTF are you on about trying to make a reasoned argument on TW? On this thread of all threads?? Enough to drive people away...

The only point IÂ’d pick up on is your belief that the "model" will move towards capped expenditure. I donÂ’t think it will. Firstly, I assume you mean it would be multilateral, rather than the EPL having an outbreak of collective conscience, otherwise thereÂ’d be an exodus to whatever league decides to ignore it. (And the rest of Europe is jealous of the broadcast revenues the EPL generates).

Secondly, as FFP has shown, it is actually designed to protect the interests of the already-established elite clubs, by making it harder for the likes of Everton to break into the top competition, even if Bill suddenly decided to sell up to a more capable set up. That ship has sailed.

A cost / salary cap would also mean clubs making a profit (unless the broadcast and sponsorship deals were to drop - and would Sky / BT suddenly reduce subscription costs?) That in turn would mean clubs paying tax (!) or dividends (!!!) or lead to wealthy owners becoming even wealthier!

Maybe thatÂ’s why olÂ’ Bill is hanging in there...

Dean Adams
480 Posted 02/09/2014 at 17:23:18
Kevin 476

I was indeed there. It was a little strange when one poster started on Paul, but it was quite amusing. Many strange things get posted on the live forum, it tends to be no holds barred. He is a big boy and did not really need assistance, although some was offered by myself and others. I believe emotions can get the better of most of us sometimes. I guess it is what sets ToffeeWeb apart from the more mundane sites out there. Some call it banter, although I hear that banter is to be outlawed!! Whatever next.

John Voigt
481 Posted 02/09/2014 at 17:22:13
The Chris James post 489 was spot on. I think Roberto Martinez gave a lot of thought to how this summerÂ’s business would be planned.

#1 priority – Buy Lukaku from Chelsea (even if it used up the bulk of the transfer budget);
#2: Sign Barry;
#3: Re-sign all the important players to new contracts.

Save some funds after the above 3 priorities in case a good deal came along (and EtoÂ’o was a good deal for many reasons).

All-in-all, a very well thought-out plan which was well executed (in my opinion).

Si Cooper
482 Posted 02/09/2014 at 17:11:09
Chris - the whole point of that sequence of posts was that we are still basically a sell-to-buy club. Without the 㿀 million TV revenue boost (an approximation of what may be left over from the total of more than 䀆 million) is there really any chance that we would have paid that record transfer fee / not had to sell someone like Barkley?

I know it is a gross simplification (looking at the headline buys and the players they replaced) but at least I admitted that there were other deals to consider; you have completely discounted the increased revenue the club has received recently for doing nothing other than playing in the EPL.

We could go back and forth trying to examine the intricacies of the clubÂ’s finances, but what is the point of that when the only point I was interested in making was that I donÂ’t think there has been a paradigm shift in the way the club is being run. Do you think your figures prove otherwise?

Drew Shortis
483 Posted 02/09/2014 at 17:43:38
Although the lack of centre-back competition yesterday was a disappointment, IÂ’m happy with our overall transfer dealings this summer. We needed central midfielders, we got Barry and Besic, we needed a wide player, we got Atsu, we needed strikers, we got Lukaku and EtoÂ’o.

I feel, on the evidence of our first three games, that we needed another centre-back, but in terms of numbers we are well covered. If the four centre-backs we have can up their game to the levels they reached for the majority of last season, then we will do well. Long term we need to make additions, but if deals for the right players were not possible then it was probably right not to panic buy on the back of three disappointing results.

If Martinez can learn from these first three games, drill the defence over the international break, and avoid playing a high line against the top teams, then we can overcome our early season difficulties.

Phil Walling
484 Posted 02/09/2014 at 18:26:27
Dennis @ 468. Nowhere near a record. I seem to remember a Tony Marsh thread once got over 1000 responses and Doddy had some mighty numbers on occasions.
Colin Glassar
485 Posted 02/09/2014 at 18:36:00
Chris #483, you could get Buddha, Mahatma Gandhi, Nelson Mandela, Martin Luther King and Jesus Christ himself to write a sensible, balanced post on here and youÂ’d still get loads of people saying, yeah, but no, but I mean....... Even when itÂ’s shoved in their faces they still wonÂ’t believe you.
Phil Walling
486 Posted 02/09/2014 at 18:47:01
But they are beginning to, Colin !
Colin Glassar
487 Posted 02/09/2014 at 18:52:31
Are you Phil? Are you?
Harold Matthews
488 Posted 02/09/2014 at 18:43:25
Yes Drew. Jags has dropped many high line clangers. Against Man Utd a couple of years ago, with only Gibbo as cover, he pushed us up to the halfway line and Rooney and Van Persie took us apart. Other instances are too painful to mention. ItÂ’s all very frustrating. HeÂ’s not even quick. DonÂ’t know if itÂ’s him or the coaches but someone somewhere is thick.
Phil Walling
489 Posted 02/09/2014 at 19:15:06
Who else might I be, Colin?
Harold Matthews
490 Posted 02/09/2014 at 21:02:23
Believe Cleverley has gone to Villa.
Alan Corken
491 Posted 02/09/2014 at 21:30:43
I am glad the last day closed without any panic signings particularly of a centrehalf, there has been too much panic amongst my fellow ToffeeWebbers (adj: one who suffers for Everton). We played very well, going forward, against Chelski, OK our defending was so so, but not as bad as some have said. The only position that we need filled and the one thing I was looking for in this window, is a goalkeeper. Since we didn't get one, then surely it is time to give Robles his chance.
Mark Wilson
492 Posted 02/09/2014 at 23:00:24
Chris, #483, excellent post. Clear, pragmatic, balanced, full of common sense. But we still needed a decent, experienced, centre back. Thanks.
Colin Glassar
493 Posted 03/09/2014 at 09:03:23
I read that Cleverley had to call Lambert personally to get his loan deal to Villa back on track. Poor bugger must've been desperate to get away.
Harold Matthews
494 Posted 03/09/2014 at 17:08:38
Yes Alan. Robles frightens people to death but it's not surprising. The lad never plays a competitive match. Doesn't even get a game with the U21s. Apart from a brief spell with Wigan his life has been spent on the bench.
Neil Cremin
495 Posted 03/09/2014 at 19:18:07
It will be interesting to see how those who are not overly concerned with our centre-halves and think we had a good transfer window will be threading at end of season. Hope I am eating humble pie.

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