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Money dictates final league positions

10/05/2015  Comments (95)  jump

The Echo features quotes from Joe Beardwood underlining the Premier League paradigm that survival and mid-table mediocrity represents success for a moderately funded team like Everton.

Joe Beardwood, a former chief executive at Carling, believes that fellow Evertonians shouldn't dream of a Sugar Daddy to splash the cash and instead need to cut their cloth accordingly.

He told the Liverpool Echo: It's childish to complain that we haven't got a billionaire owner. You've just got to try and finish above where you are in the wages league table.

I've got spreadsheets covering the last 10 years and compared to where they are in the wages table, Everton are regularly winning the league by a country mile in regards to where they finish.

We're not going to win the title but we've regularly been punching above our weight. I reckon that Everton have got the 12th biggest wage bill in the Premier League so to finish 10th, ninth or eighth and turn over a big team at Goodison Park every once in a while is success.

People tell me that we've got to win things but only three teams can win the Premier League and only four or five can get into the Champions League. It's been proven every year for the past 20 years.

Beardwood added: At the start of the season I could have told you that it would be Chelsea, Arsenal, Manchester City and Manchester United in the top four while Liverpool and Tottenham will always be fifth and sixth because the gap is so huge.

It's not rocket science. If Everton have got a 69M team against a 220M team, they're not going to come out on top most of the time.

Quotes sourced from Liverpool Echo


Reader Comments (95)

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Colin Glassar
1 Posted 10/05/2015 at 14:13:57
IÂ’m absolutely gutted and distraught after reading this piece about our financial situation in The Echo; it just hit me that we are royally screwed thanks to the lack of investment and foresight shown by our board(s) over the last 30 years.

Even building a bigger stadium wonÂ’t solve anything as we wouldnÂ’t be able to sell the corporate boxes or stadium naming rights. We canÂ’t even sell a decent amount of replica shirts or fucking Made in China mugs to increase our revenue.

God knows how much our debt really is and what, if any, assets we have left. Thanks to the Sky money, we can stay afloat – otherwise, we’d be facing administration.

Ross Edwards
2 Posted 10/05/2015 at 15:09:51
So, according to Joe Bearwood, a season like this is actually ’a success’ – believe it or not!

Terry Murray
4 Posted 10/05/2015 at 16:00:11
I hope ToffeeWeb readers are following the Moneyball experiment at Brentford. The approach advocated by Danishh owner Matthew Benham has led to his other team Midtjylland going from mid-table (like Everton) to Danish league leaders by 12 points.

Dream on?

Mike Hughes
5 Posted 10/05/2015 at 16:30:14
OK - thereÂ’s evidence underpinning the facts so they have to be respected.

Beating Man Utd 3-0 then losing to Sunderland 0-2 kind of makes a mockery of things though, doesnÂ’t it?

On the park itÂ’s still 11 v 11 so that gives me hope that we can compete. Whether we will is another matter.

Perhaps improving fitness levels, practising set-pieces and desire to win can make the difference.

Last time I looked, those things didnÂ’t show up on a balance sheet.

Ian McDowell
6 Posted 10/05/2015 at 16:36:36
Depressing read. Makes you wonder if the expense of football is really worth while after all the game is all about the glory.
Ross Edwards
7 Posted 10/05/2015 at 16:41:25
That article has confirmed to me and thousands of Blues the world over that we are essentially happy to exist. That is a depressing, small time article that underlines the total lack of ambition at this football club.

The mentality of second best or valiant failure seeps throughout the club, and until itÂ’s iradicated, we are going nowhere as a football club.

Basically using his logic, this season has been a success because weÂ’ve finished around our wage level, and comfortably beat Man Utd. ThatÂ’s a season Stoke would be happy with, or Swansea.

Just shows what this board has done. And in 5 years, West Ham will be bigger than us. They move to the Olympic Stadium which means thar theyÂ’ll have plenty of interest from potential investors, while weÂ’re sat in a decrepid stadium that could potentially fail itÂ’s safety requirements in a few years time.

We have nothing. WeÂ’re an irrelevance.

Colin Glassar
8 Posted 10/05/2015 at 16:41:44
Mike, on our day we can beat most teams in the Premier League but over a season itÂ’s the quality and quantity of the squad that counts. Under our present setup, we havenÂ’t got a snowball in hell's chance of ever winning a league title again. ItÂ’s not fair, itÂ’s not honest... but thatÂ’s the way football is nowadays.

Our first team has cost us about 㿲m to build – compare that to the hundreds of millions itÂ’s cost Chelsea, Man Utd, Man City, Liverpool, Spurs and, to a lesser degree Arsenal to build their squads.

IÂ’ve been called a conformist, apologist etc this season but I prefer to consider myself a realist. We have all the chips stacked against us and to ever break into the top 4 again will take nothing short of a miracle. With this manager or any other you can name.

Terry mentions Brentford and their Moneyball approach. Yes, that is a possibility but it takes a lot of nerve, risk-taking, foresight and balls – everything that EFC has lacked for decades now.

Terence Tipler
9 Posted 10/05/2015 at 16:55:15
"Liverpool and Tottenham will always be 5th or 6th."

Liverpool finished 2nd last season.

Conor McCourt
10 Posted 10/05/2015 at 16:53:14
So we should just not bother turning up then....tosser.

Our manager was able to win the FA Cup with a small team like Wigan and Fulham got to a Europa League final so we know that we have only got the 7th or 8th best squad in the division but we over achieved last year and there is nothing to stop us doing so next year if we can keep our top players.

The dream of upsetting the top cats would make it all the sweeter should we ever qualify for the Champions League

Paul Holmes
11 Posted 10/05/2015 at 17:01:09
It's a team game – not individuals. We had Wayne Rooney and nearly got relegated. We then sold him to Man Utd and bought players like Tim Cahill and Marcus Bent and got into the Champions League. Look at Atletico Madrid last season, winning the Spanish League... it's how your 11 players gel and fight to win games.

But, after watching Everton all season, we are miles away – especially after Martinez's first season where we looked to be back on track. Martinez spent decent money to improve the squad this season and we are worse than ever, so money? It's more complicated than that, I'm afraid.

Tony Abrahams
12 Posted 10/05/2015 at 17:14:04
Money is very important, but IÂ’m not sure it has to be the, be all and end all, though.

Of course it buys the best players, but itÂ’s usually the best TEAMS that win things. This means not enough emphasis is being put on compensating a lack of money, with creating a team, As ItÂ’s not as if the lower teams are skint?

Everton will come mid table, but it feels so much worse. The reason? we have not really played like a team, this season, and have obviously got a changing room full of Robots. How else could you explain the way our corners never get past the first man? ItÂ’s bad enough having to watch it. But neither a manager, coach or player has insisted on us putting, a man at the near post, when taking a corner? WHY?

John Keating
13 Posted 10/05/2015 at 17:25:08
So we should, in theory, finish 12th every season. Might we not improve our position slightly if we give 100% every game without exception?

Practise set pieces. Get fit, well fit enough to at least last 90+ minutes every week. Employ a manager who can galvanise the players to exceed their limitations Put out balanced teams that play to their actual strengths and not perceived. Instil a mental strength and team spirit amongst 11 individuals and fuck off anyone who upsets this spirit.

I donÂ’t know but maybe if we can manage the above, maybe regular top half finishes can be achieved... they were at one time, werenÂ’t they?

David Barks
14 Posted 10/05/2015 at 17:30:49
Man City were terrible. Then bought by billionaires and win multiple titles. Chelsea were nothing special. Then since being bought by a billionaire multiple titles.

But on top of that, both those clubs are now automatic Champions League qualifiers. United missed out one season, then proceeded to spend, what was it, around 250 million in one Summer and boom, back in the Champions League.

And ArsenalÂ’s goal is really nothing more than stay in the top four. They spend just enough to do that, but not enough to compete with the other 3.

So thatÂ’s it. Occasionally another club will slip into the top 4, but they donÂ’t win the title. It will be one of those 3 that wins the league every season. Show me the evidence to prove otherwise?

In Spain it will be Barcelona or Real Madrid or Atletico. In France it was Lyon every season until PSG decided to outspend everyone and now theyÂ’re the top team.

Yeah, itÂ’s 11 v 11, but it makes a hell of a difference when one teams 11 is far superior to the others. And more importantly, when that teamÂ’s second 11 is also better than the other teamÂ’s 11.

I canÂ’t believe this still actually raises an argument. ItÂ’s common sense and has been on display every season.

Darryl Ritchie
15 Posted 10/05/2015 at 17:01:53
The reality of the piece is inescapable. To a lot of Evertonians, who have experienced the glory years of the 80Â’s and lived long enough to have seen Dixie play, our current situation must be like a headache that just wonÂ’t go away.

It doesnÂ’t bother me as much, because I wasnÂ’t around for any of that. I love to read about it, but to me itÂ’s just history. My reality is the mid table club of the last few years; sometimes a little higher up the table, sometimes a little lower.

I celebrate the wins( even the ugly, boring ones ), and the losses ruin my day. I become frustrated with the manager and the players at times, because I know they can do better; IÂ’ve seen it. I know we are much better than an eleventh place
club, but I also know we are not a fourth place club either.

I donÂ’t hate the board, RM or any of the squad. When the time comes, they will leave or retire, and newcomers will replace them all. Perhaps we will get that billionaire owner and will compete for the top, but until that time, what we have IS Everton. And Everton is my club....good or bad.

Paul Hughes
16 Posted 10/05/2015 at 18:14:54
Yes itÂ’s a depressing read but either way, itÂ’s the reality of the EPL and have/have notÂ’s. The board could of course taken a risk and invested and win a trophy or two, but by the same token we could be in the same position as Portsmouth and Leeds.
Dean Adams
17 Posted 10/05/2015 at 18:15:41
And so if you want to believe that you can never win then carry on being nothing. The job in hand is to find a tactical genius who can hold onto his players long enough to win the league, then keep them because of the success, ignoring the morons in the press who perpetuate the problem by causing unrest amongst players at upcoming clubs.

It has happened in other leagues. It could happen here but would be an amazingly difficult job. Expensive does not mean great.

David Barks
18 Posted 10/05/2015 at 18:32:32
Dean,

What other leagues has that happened in? IÂ’m not aware of any club going from mediocrity to winning league titles in Germany, Spain, Italy, England or even France. Not without a massive influx of cash.

Frank McGregor
19 Posted 10/05/2015 at 18:13:13
Firstly, let me make it clear I do believe that Everton Football Club has not been managed well over the years since the war, except for the time when John Moores had the club, and even then it was not left in the best of shape. Currently, the team like the board could be doing a lot better; however my concern is the most recent article in the Echo once again makes reference to EvertonÂ’s current financial position.

I would caution the readers to not digest everything that is written by these so call ’Financial Experts". Having been involved with these consultants in North America such as the following: Gemini, Elliott, Ketchum,and AT Kearney, they will offer you all the things you should have done for your business organization and offer you a plan going forward that – in most cases I have been involved with – decimate and destroy good business practices. The only company out of the above list with any credibility being AT Kearney.

My position regarding the current Expert, Joe Beardwood is that he as he says that he has collected data that gives him various conclusions but really does not offer anything constructive going forward. To illustrate my point, he says:

’’I could have told you that Chelsea, Arsenal,Manchester City, Manchester United would finish in the top four and Liverpool and Tottenham would finish 5th and 6th." – The fact is that he did NOT mention that at the beginning of the season. Hindsight is a wonderful thing but, as I mention, it is not constructive.

Kunal Desai
20 Posted 10/05/2015 at 18:44:39
We shouldnÂ’t dream of a sugar daddy?? Why not. Were Man City and Chelsea fans being told that 7 and 12 years ago?? We should always dream. It may be impossible but still a probability it could happen. Perhaps the club should focus on the commercial side, maximising revenues and moving the club forward instead of harping on the bleedin past 30 years and going on about their history which quite frankly is an embarrassing and showing the mentality of a small time club.
Mike Childs
21 Posted 10/05/2015 at 18:46:36
Dortmund beat Bayern to the German title twice and Atletico final broke through the strangle hold of Barca and Real last year. Perhaps in Spain if they follow through with even Steven TV money weÂ’ll see Servilla, Vellencia and a few other break through as well.

In Germany they usually shake up the CL teams except Bayern always making it. It can be done.

WeÂ’ll never do it with the present manager because there is absolutely no competition for the starting XI. If youÂ’re 70% healthy and one of RMÂ’s boys youÂ’re in.

The only way heÂ’s out with this board if season tickets take a drastic hit but I canÂ’t blame fans for renewing after all without HOPE why bother.

Declan Brown
22 Posted 10/05/2015 at 19:06:44
For example, with that logic why did Wigan beat Man City in the FA Cup two seasons in a row? IÂ’m with Mike Hughes (6) on this and the poster said this reeks of small time mentality, excusing failure by using wages to actually say itÂ’s a success.

Give the players a reason to fail / excuses for failure and they can hide behind it. A player on 㿞,000 a week can have more hunger, desire and will to win than someone on 𧵎,000 a week.

But a sad reality of how football is nowadays. When Watford finished 2nd in the mid 80Â’s were they the 2nd highest wage payers in that season with their small ground? You could go on with this all day. Excuses are excuses. If youÂ’re not going to try then why bother turning up?

Money helps, but itÂ’s a sport for crying out loud, you can pay all the wages you want, if the teamÂ’s tactics and will to win arenÂ’t there, well, you get the picture...

One last thing then, Utd get 77,000+ for most home games, due to that stat does that make them the best supporters in the Premier League because more of them turn up at Old Trafford for their home games than anyone else gets? ItÂ’s a load of nonsense.

Too much money can take the competitive edge away in any sport.

Joe Foster
23 Posted 10/05/2015 at 19:12:24
Colin, if your a realist, I am a warlock. If you were a realist, youÂ’d see that blindly supporting RM is even more detrimental to our so-called fragile position. BK is not helping us at all but appointing relegation fodder management really puts us on the back foot.
Phil Walling
24 Posted 10/05/2015 at 18:58:47
This only confirms my long held view that Â’we should be gratefulÂ’ for a perennial Â’seventhish Â’ finish. Love him or hate him, Moyes delivered to that level but got precious thanks for it ( that is unless you discount the 㾻m netto he trousered !).

But without that elusive billionaire we must accept that only exceptionally will Everton break through into a European competition of any kind.... And then what happens? League form suffers because we have not got the resources to compete on multiple fronts.

Martinez will continue to enjoy KenwrightÂ’s faith in him because the chairman is a realist who is just happy for the Club to tick over, is grateful for last seasonÂ’s success and HOPES it can be repeated.

The Catalan is a WEAK manager and only when the players Â’feel like itÂ’ do the players perform for him. They know he will cover their arses but laugh behind his back.

That is Everton in 2015!

Frank Crewe
25 Posted 10/05/2015 at 19:25:49
Hull have spent 42 million quid this season and are in the bottom three. ItÂ’s not the money you spend but the base you are starting from and the players you buy.

42 million is a lot but all it did was take Hull from total rubbish to barely adequate.

ItÂ’s taken half a BILLION quid to put Citeh where they are and it will take that much, and probably more, to do the same for us.

ItÂ’s just not going to happen. The domestic cups are our best hope for silverware. On a one off game with a bit of luck and a following wind anyone can beat a top 4 side in a cup tie.

Brian Harrison
26 Posted 10/05/2015 at 19:29:15
Please lets not give the charlatan an excuse for his insipid brand of negative football and clueless tactics by saying itÂ’s because we havenÂ’t got the resources to finish higher. Despite what some fans think, Moyes did a great job, no he didnÂ’t win a trophy but you never ever thought that you would be in a relegation struggle. For me there are huge differences between Moyes and the charlatan, first Moyes has his team as fit as any in the league and has them organised, neither of which does Martinez do. Moyes was very astute in the transfer market buying players cheaply and selling them for huge sums; again I canÂ’t see any of RMs buys apart from maybe McCarthy doubling his fee.

So were BK could always rely on Moyes being able to sell a player to help balance the books, that wont apply under RM. By and large his transfer dealings have been an utter disaster summed up perfectly by Lukaku. Dont take my opinion as I am only a fan, Mourhino preferred a 37-year-old Drogba and a player who failed a medical with the other lot Loic Remy as understudies to Diego Costa rather than keep the waste of space Lukaku.

To add insult to injury, he got the charlatan to fork out just ٢ million short of what he paid for Costa... enough said.

Martin Mason
27 Posted 10/05/2015 at 19:34:19
Exactly what some have been saying for many years now and we canÂ’t expect any investment. The reason is that by investment people mean pouring personal money in for absolutely zero or negative return and who is crazy enough to do that?

To expect Everton to win trophies was reasonable in 1984 but itÂ’s irrational now and I believe that we deliberately get out of Cup tournaments now to ensure that we meet our most important goal which is PL survival.

My own opinion is that weÂ’re run very well by a very good board led by a much maligned but honest chairman. Should they "invest" in the club using their own money given that they canÂ’t do it by borrowing or finding an "investor"? No, theyÂ’d be certifiable to do so.

They may be able to get some "investment" by selling but give me the underfunded entity we are rather than a club run by the AshleyÂ’s and Americans of the league.

I despair of our lunatic of a manager but we have the basis of a good side being a mixture of bought and developed players.

Phil Walling
30 Posted 10/05/2015 at 19:45:33
Sorry Brian, I had your positive remarks on the Sunderland game as marking you down as a Martinez admirer. It appears I read you wrong for which I apologise.
Tony Hill
31 Posted 10/05/2015 at 19:54:00
IÂ’ve just reminded myself of what an Everton side can look like when theyÂ’re fit and quick and wanting to win, by watching the 7-1 Sunderland video on here.

ThatÂ’s what I would settle for. Not, of course, routs like that one every week but the sight of my team playing with desire, some flair and with obvious commitment. I think most of us feel the same and that has nothing to do with money or selling our soul. Quite the reverse.

Brian Harrison
32 Posted 10/05/2015 at 19:57:05
Phil I think you must be getting me mixed up with someone else. I would never have had this charlatan anywhere near this club and have been saying it for a long time. I started calling him a charlatan many many months back when Lyndon kept referring to him as the Catalan. I just added a few more letters to aptly describe the Mr Bean of management.
Phil Walling
33 Posted 10/05/2015 at 19:56:14
PS. I donÂ’t agree with much of what Martin says above apart from his final para but I do recognize his tolerance of BK as the view of most Evertonians I talk to!
Karl Jones
34 Posted 10/05/2015 at 19:46:19
What a bore the PL has become since Sky got hold of it. If you canÂ’t compete at the top financially, all you fans who have spent thousands of money on season tickets, kits etc... Suck it up, youÂ’ve no chance of winning anything! Be happy with mediocrity. If you want some glory, support one of the money five (or should that be four).

I grew up watching teams like Derby, Swansea & Watford aspire to win the league, even though Liverpool usually won it every other year, but not because they bought every decent player in the 1st Division and/or world. (Almost all were from the lower leagues.) Everyone started reasonably equal. Good managers and teams won it, not vast bank accounts and it was exciting watching football that didn't resemble a game of chess.

James Hughes
35 Posted 10/05/2015 at 20:05:07
Part of levelling the field could be the loan system, which caused outrage on here last season. The hack has been proved right though. Lukaku a couple of seasons out on loan bags loads of goals and everyone is bidding.

As an earlier post pointed out, Jose was happy to let him go and only have to stump up ٢m for Costa. Helps FFP targets and they win again by signing up dozens of youngsters and blood them elsewhere. Uefa should limit the amount of players clubs can send out just like they limit the amount one club can sign.

Dean Adams
36 Posted 10/05/2015 at 20:18:37
Winning is a mentality. If you buy into the "Sky way" we and almost every other club will never win. That "Sky way" is driven by ex-Redshite and Manure pundits who have hoodwinked and brainwashed the gullable fans of many clubs. The perpetual motion of these things gathers pace and more people start falling for it.

We need a manager who believes and has tactical awareness. Moyes fitted the first part but not the second, Martinez I fear misses on both. I had hoped he would use his Spanish connections to pluck some talent from the huge pool of talent in his homeland, but alas, we only have a keeper who he has little faith in.

Tony Abrahams
37 Posted 10/05/2015 at 20:04:29
Underfunded? If your going to sell the training ground and then rent it back for a ridiculous sum, then what else would you expect for such a well run club?

Agree with you Phil, regarding people tolerating Kenwright. Patrick Murphy put a link on ToffeeWeb, showing the meeting between the blue union and our chairman, and IÂ’ve been in despair since I read it.

Kenwright might be a blue, but heÂ’s a chairman without a fucking clue. Maybe now Phillip Carter is no longer here, this job might, just become too big for him.

Winston Williamson
38 Posted 10/05/2015 at 20:17:33
Apathy everywhere the eye shall look!

I used to support Everton FC - I now support Apathy FC! Or so it seems...

Allan Board
39 Posted 10/05/2015 at 20:47:45
Once the monied elite bugger off to the Euro Super League and Sky go with them, then we can have our game back. It wonÂ’t be too long either, and perhaps then weÂ’ll see young British players get a chance again instead of being in the minority.

The PL stinks of foreign bias and has destroyed at least a dozen once great, traditional football clubs AND counting. I donÂ’t support the PL, I support Everton. Fuck the lot of them!

James Stewart
40 Posted 10/05/2015 at 21:12:39
Â’10th, ninth or eighth and turn over a big team at Goodison Park every once in a while is success.Â’

Martinez must have a grin like a cheshire cat reading that. I on the other hand find it sickening! This guy shouldnÂ’t be let anywhere near Goodison with that attitude.

Mark Griffiths
41 Posted 10/05/2015 at 21:22:13
The league should be more like the NFL or other American models with draft picks and even things up... but it will never happen. All of football is bent and corrupted to the brim across the globe.
Nicholas Ryan
42 Posted 10/05/2015 at 20:47:49
Calm down everyone, calm down!

The essence of the article seems to be; that there is a Â’naturalÂ’ correlation between investment/wages and success. And, ON THAT BASIS ONLY, we should finish 12th. But, of course, sport isnÂ’t like that; you have to factor in, desire, motivation, fitness, luck and undiscovered natural talent. These may all upset the basic calculation ... but not for long!

There will always be a surprise team/player who will come from nowhere and be successful; but for that team to be successful YEAR AFTER YEAR, takes huge investment; shrewd management, and inspired coaching. Not sure we have any of those 3, just at the moment!

Look at cycling; there was no chance of a Brit winning Â’Le TourÂ’, then Sky come along with unlimited resources, and hey presto, 2 wins in 3 years. Would Wiggo & Froome have won without the Sky money? Massively doubtful.

We should, and must, always dream about winning things; but we should be equally realistic over the ever-increasing power of money ... money we donÂ’t have.

Think of this; 10,000 of us went to Lille; if it cost us 𧺬 each in travel, hotels etc. that means that EFC fans spent ٣ million to watch a crap 0-0 in a competition we probably wouldnÂ’t win; and to get tear-gassed and stun-grenaded in the process.

I was proud to be in that square that day, and always will be. ItÂ’s that pride that keeps us going, and IÂ’ll have it whether we finish 1st or 101st.

If the price of sticking with Everton, is that there wonÂ’t be any trophies for a while... well thatÂ’s just the way it is.

But, never stop dreaming!

Martin Mason
43 Posted 10/05/2015 at 21:37:00
Incorrect for me Dean, winning is having the quality players available to enable you to win. No amount of hard work or emotion will get you wins when the other side has quality. Everton are now a below top ten side with 10th about as high as they can realistically expect to achieve consistently and very creditable for an underfunded club from a very unfashionable part of the UK that can never expect to attract "investment". Liverpool can for a while because of their past but they are bleeding money now.

The chances of Everton being trophy winners are zero and we have to accept that. Our cup final is staying in the EPL.

Andy Meighan
45 Posted 10/05/2015 at 21:38:26
This Joe Beardwood is just saying things weÂ’ve known for years. Yes, the monied clubs will always probably prevail but having shedfulls of money is no guarantee of success. Man Utd paid 㿨 million for a player who canÂ’t even get in their team, 㿊 mil for a kid whoÂ’s a stone overweight already at his age... laid out millions for a player on loan whoÂ’s as bad as Kone... and thereÂ’s been other countless big money signings whoÂ’ve failed.

Yes, theyÂ’ve qualified for the Champions League but so what? ThereÂ’s no chance theyÂ’re going to win it. Ditto Man City and Chelsea. And ultimately thatÂ’s the holy grail.

There’s good players out there for good money – it’s finding them and coaching them right. Unfortunately we’ve got a coach who thinks the likes of McGeady, Barry and Alcaraz etc are world class... so, until we get rid of him, we’re fucked. We’ve all got a our opinions on who could manage us better than Martinez but it certainly won’t be anytime soon – not while he’s got Kenwright’s backing.

Dick Fearon
46 Posted 10/05/2015 at 23:03:56
A competent combative squad of players led by a motivational manager with feet firmly on the ground could demonstrate that apple carts can be upset.
Andy Crooks
47 Posted 11/05/2015 at 00:43:03
Dean # 36, excellent post. I suggest we try something new, yet feasible. How about getting the best coach we can afford, and we do pay good money. Then, we let this coach spend as much as we can safely afford. A good sense of unity, aspiration and teamwork is created. We get a group of well paid players who are inspired to buy into the dream, who want to be part of something special.

Off the field we market the club to the maximum, selling the idea that something new is happening, that the Corinthian ideal is alive.

We get the absolute last drop out of all we have. If that fails then we can be proud that all was given. Why not?

Phil Sammon
48 Posted 11/05/2015 at 00:52:43
If you look at any team that has broken the mould in recent years they have ALWAYS had an unbreakable team spirit and exceptional fitness levels. The more money you have the more quality players you can afford. Faced with that, the likes of Atletico Madrid and Dortmund forged success by out-working every side they came up against.

How badly weÂ’ve been let down by Martinez on that front this season.

Brian Porter
49 Posted 11/05/2015 at 01:55:10
BeardwoodÂ’s comments are totally irrelevant in many ways. The fact is that, with mostly the same squad, we finished 5th last season and are only in our current situation because our totally useless and inept manager has, through his lack of management skills, failed to motivate the players and used tactics and team selections that have at times seemed inexplicable to knowledgeable fans of the club.

His inability to change his broken philosophy when his tactics clearly werenÂ’t working earlier in the season have cost us a top eight position this season, not lack of funds or investment. We have a squad capable of more than holding its own against perhaps all but the Â’big fourÂ’ on any given day, but the squad has been both demoralised and poorly utilized by Martinez who, week on week, goes on to prove his unsuitability to manage our football club.

I was once employed as a statistician and believe me, I could probably have come up with a totally different scenario based on Mr BeardwoodÂ’s figures. Statistics, when manipulated carefully, can be made to prove almost anything the analyst wants them to, so please donÂ’t fall for this load of negative crap.

Mark Andersson
50 Posted 11/05/2015 at 02:11:34
As usual some great and interesting post. Love TW because someone always makes me laugh. Today it was Colin Glassar with his statement that he is a realist! Every football fan is deluded world over. It defies logic why we go crazy if we win, crazy if we lose.

I witnessed the great 80s team and IÂ’m thankful for it. Liverpool are still living on past glories hoping like us that one day they will be top dogs again.

This has been the most disappointing season in my memory. I could not find a match report on Saturday’s game on the Daily Mail as they now give more coverage to the Spanish league.

Watch this space there will be new generations of scouse and manc kids supporting the likes of Barcelona, Real Madrid, Bayern Munich when the money men finally have a European league.

Supporting your local team went out in the late 70s when all over the country plastic scousers where born.

If you’re born a blue, like me and most on here, then like your first love that jilted you took you back and fucked you off again, you canÂ’t let go of dreaming that one day it will be like it use to be.

Hopeless romantics and thatÂ’s footballs pull.

Peter Barry
51 Posted 11/05/2015 at 04:02:20
Having a crap Manager and disinterested Prima Donnas as players doesnÂ’t help much either.
David Barks
52 Posted 11/05/2015 at 04:36:11
Brian Porter,

Please tell me how anything he said is wrong when, every single season, one of the richest 2-3 clubs wins the league. Every single season. Fluctuations between 5th-8th isnÂ’t really the point.

The point is that before next season even starts, we know that only 2-3 out of 20 teams have any shot at the league. Chelsea, Man City or Man Utd, thatÂ’s it. WeÂ’ll beat the occasional big side and get draws here and there. Just as Spurs will, and Villa will and even Crystal Palace will.

But, by the end of the season, the same teams will be at the top, and everyone else will shuffle around a few places around where theyÂ’re expected. Some might finish a bit higher than expected and others a bit lower. But the point is we know right now that only 3 clubs actually have any chance to wine the league, regardless of manager and tactics, etc. itÂ’s completely factual, just look at every single title winner over the past 10-15 years.

Eric Myles
53 Posted 11/05/2015 at 05:48:22
I respect JoeÂ’s knowledge of accounts and finances and appreciate his yearly analysis of our accounts but statements like this: "I reckon that Everton have got the 12th biggest wage bill in the Premier League so to finish 10th, ninth or eighth and turn over a big team at Goodison Park every once in a while is success" are unbelievable and show what level of mediocrity out board have conned fans into accepting.

Why bother playing games if thatÂ’s the case? Why not just give the trophy to the team that spends the most on transfers in the summer?

Brian Porter
54 Posted 11/05/2015 at 05:46:07
David @52, where he is wrong, if you read my post fully, is in intimating we should be satisfied to finish in 11th or 12th because that is where our financial situation when compared with other clubs says we should finish. I did say that the top four will likely remain the same, but the point is, merely accepting mediocrity destroys ambition and any hope of future growth.

Consider it as a two-tier league, if you like. Yes, sadly the biggest moneyed clubs will always dominate at the very top, sad to say, but, as we showed last season, there is nothing to stop Everton, or any other club in the league from aspiring to be the best of the rest.

With the right management, tactics, freedom from injuries etc, we could have been up there again this season, and to say we should be pleased to finish in our Â’rightfulÂ’ place is a bit like the old lord of the manor telling the serfs to know their place and donÂ’t dare try to rock the boat by attempting to elevate yourself above your pitiful level of existence. Carry on as you are as that is your destiny, (sorry if I sound like Darth Vader), carry on sending your daughters up to the big house where they can work for me by day and be deflowered by me at night!

So, do we blindly accept our place among the serfs of the lower echelons of the PL and celebrate our mediocrity? Or do we follow the serfs' example and aspire to be the best of the rest? They knew they would never live in the big house (the top 4), but they could, and did, fight their way up from their servile position until they achieved a level of rather more equal place in their society, where effort was rewarded and the foundations of modern society were laid.

I for one would be happy if, for the time being at least, we pushed the boundaries and aspired to reach 5th place at least each year and one day, maybe the top 4 will crack a little. We had 4th place in our hands at one point last season, but, beginning with the home defeat by Palace, we blew it – not through any financial shortcomings, but because in my opinion the rot had begun to set in and the tactics of our manager began to be exposed and the last few games of the season almost became a pointer to what we’ve witnessed week by week this season.

That has had nothing to do with our wealth or lack of it, and more to do with ineffective and naïve management by the so-called head coach, who has shown his true colours and unsuitability for the job of managing Everton FC.

I want us to be the best we can be, and not start each year thinking that 12th is okay because thatÂ’s our financial position, but by doing all we can on the pitch to show we are capable of being Â’the best of the restÂ’. ThereÂ’s a thing called self-respect and accepting Mr BeardwoodÂ’s words as gospel is tantamount not to accepting reality but to giving up that self-respect and just not trying to do anything to improve our situation, when we have the playing ability to do so.

Mark Andersson
55 Posted 11/05/2015 at 06:52:48
Great post, Brian Porter. Makes a lot of sense.

Rick Tarleton
56 Posted 11/05/2015 at 07:05:56
There seems to be a feeling that this has to be exactly right every season. Probability dictates that over a number of years this will work out. The big spenders win the League, usually another team manages to finish 4th, 5th or 6th, but in all probability, the other five places will be filled by the so-called big six.

Yes, itÂ’s eleven against eleven on the pitch, though with the strength of the big teamsÂ’ squads, even that isnÂ’t really true any more, but the quality of that eleven is dictated by their wages and what a club can afford in transfer fees.

Trying harder does work in the odd match, see SunderlandÂ’s result on Saturday, but as a recipe for perpetual success itÂ’s a pretty thin ingredient. Sport thrives on the odd upset, if it was totally predictable itÂ’d cease to have appeal. However, as Damon Runyon put it: "The battle isnÂ’t always to the strong or the race to the swift. But thatÂ’s the way to bet."

Anthony Hawkins
57 Posted 11/05/2015 at 07:43:31
Why is everyone getting up in arms about this article? It tells us nothing new about opinions that we already knew and have discussed thousands of times.

Money generally dictates the skill and overall ability of a player a team can buy. What it does not buy is team spirit.

Everton have had team spirit in abundance until recently and itÂ’s the team spirit which has keep Everton in the top 6 - 8.

Money does not have to dictate where a team finishes.

Eddie Dunn
58 Posted 11/05/2015 at 07:54:45
Money is not always the answer, as Liverpool have discovered; QPR are seventh in the wages league, and Hull spent big – look at them.

I hate Sky and all of the twats that them and TalkSport wheel out day after day, bleating on about their big audience pleasers. There has to be more to the equation than just money. There is no reason why a decent squad with the right motivation and management, canÂ’t win a trophy or get into the top four and move into the big money and then invest moderately and sustain its position.

In the Moores days, we were one of the big spenders but it didnÂ’t stop Derby and later Forest coming up and winning the league. I know Bournmouth have a sugar daddy, but I wouldnÂ’t know any of their players, but Eddie Howe has galvanised them into a winning, footballing team, on tiny attendances, with no real history. They have average players who have bought into an idea, they have momentum and have finished above the likes of Norwich, BoroÂ’ and Cardiff.

If you have the right mentality and get momentum, then good management and sensible investment can create an environment where players want to play for you (like us last season – Lukaku wouldn’t have come if it were not happening then) and then the skill is keeping it going.

If you manage it, the club becomes easier to sell to the media (who want teams who play good footy, and have a good atmosphere at their grounds) and to the fans (more sales of merchandise) and to the sponsors (for obvious reasons).

So it is possible, but we need vision and reasonable investment in order to put the right elements together to create the primeval soup and life could begin!

John Keating
59 Posted 11/05/2015 at 08:13:21
In my post #13, I suggested ways in which we may better the 12th position Joe alluded too in his article. Team spirit is such an important thing a price canÂ’t be put on it.

Regardless of what anyone thinks of Moyes, he, a bit like Mourinho, had a hint of siege mentality which certainly helped us over the years. I remember him saying that he tried as best he could to only sign players who he thought would fit in with the dressing room. Could you see Moyes signing EtoÂ’o?

Having a leader and a strong manager would help us; while we have Martinez we will be lucky to attain JoeÂ’s 12th

Jim Bennings
60 Posted 11/05/2015 at 08:45:35
We need to forget, for the foreseeable future anyway, about getting Champions League football and try our best to win a Cup next season.

IÂ’d accept us finishing 10th if we lifted one of the trophies.
Unlike a lot of fans, IÂ’m not in cloud-cuckoo land realistically thinking we can expect a top four assault next season and nothing boils my blood more than hearing idiots say they are glad we are out the cups so we can concentrate on the league.

We NEED silverware, we CAN win the League Cup, for a club like ourselves winning that is achievable and we NEED to take it seriously.

Its all well and good harping on saying "oh but we can really have a tilt at the top four" but face it guyÂ’s, challenging for it and actually getting it is a total world apart, even when we have a great season we always fall short or self destruct, I don't even think the players had the belief they could get there last season, even when in the driving seat in April.

We canÂ’t win the league or the Champions League, so my advice is letÂ’s go all out to seeing another trophy in our cabinet, providing the locks havenÂ’t gone rusty over the last 20 years!

I want to see Everton win a Cup again, I want to see our Captain lift it at Wembley and be there on the open top bus parade...

This is something that CAN be achieved without mega millions.

Phil Walling
61 Posted 11/05/2015 at 09:02:42
Okay then, Eddie, it should read Â’Money AND Good LeadershipÂ’. Unfortunately Everton has neither!
Tony Abrahams
62 Posted 11/05/2015 at 08:55:07
Winston 38, not only is it apathy, there also appears to be a general acceptance from too many Evertonians. The Blue Union are derided by many, but at least they care.

Martin Mason, to suggest that Liverpool is a very unfashionable place right now, is nearly as bad a quote as suggesting that our board do a good job.

Of course money indicates, but when we have got magicians like Phillip Green (Blue Bill's words) helping out the chairman. Why have we been asset stripped, and weÂ’re still skint? Is always going to be the question, that needs answering the most to me.

Sam Hoare
63 Posted 11/05/2015 at 09:11:35
Jim@60. Of course I would LOVE for us to win a trophy but the reason I crave Champions League football above all else is that the money/visibility there has the capacity to push this club forward far, far more than a trophy ever will.

The fans deserve some silverware and a great day out to celebrate and cherish but it will do very little for the long term aspirations of this club to be at the forefront of the English game as its tradition requires. The Champions League is a long shot but Moyes showed and the likes of Atletico Madrid and Dortmund have shown that the tables can be turned on the monied.

It's a huge ask and youÂ’re right, it's probably not that realistic but it is in no way impossible. If we could make it to that promised land then the additional money and glamour would help attract a better calibre of player and we might even have a chance of repeating the feat.

Its particularly hard now because, unlike in Moyes's days, there are 6 clubs with far greater financial resources than us and hence probably better, deeper playing squads. Whereas Moyes only had to beat 1 of the monied 4 we would have to beat 3 of the monied 6.

And as time it goes on it looks like clubs such as Southampton, West Ham and even Stoke will be richer than us. Which is why we really need to try and gatecrash the party now. Before we tumble into the oblivion of midtable mediocrity and possibly even worse over the next decade...

Phil Walling
64 Posted 11/05/2015 at 09:10:15
I canÂ’t believe that there are still dreamers amongst us who cling to the belief that Everton will EVER AGAIN win BIG honours in the game!

Billionaires aside, the very best we can hope for is a grasp on the greatly de-valued FA Cup and/or its even more tatty relative the League Cup.

Add, perhaps, an occasional foray into Euroland via the Europa League but even that becomes a poisoned chalice – as we have seen this season.

So save yourselves the heartbreak and settle for ’success is seventhish’ – although even that modest achievement may slowly become history under this regime!

Sam Hoare
65 Posted 11/05/2015 at 09:25:40
Phil, the reality is bleak enough. If we canÂ’t at least dream then really what is the point?!
Eugene Ruane
66 Posted 11/05/2015 at 09:19:10
Eddie (58) - "There has to be more to the equation than just money."

There is.

ThereÂ’s the difference between Â’moneyÂ’ and Â’fucking LOOOOOAAADS of moneyÂ’.

ItÂ’s about degree and spending power over a few seasons - so Liverpool and QPR are proof that Â’moneyÂ’ canÂ’t buy success, City and Chelsea are proof that Â’fucking LOOOOOAADS of moneyÂ’ can.

(Okay, itÂ’s not a 100% guarantee, but the trophies won-for-pounds-spent figures say itÂ’s more or less guaranteed.)

Recently in When Saturday Comes, there was a the following sentiment – "The Premier League is as rigged as it’s possible to be without actually fixing games"

I thought ’yeah, spot on, fucking disgrace, agree completely’ etc, but here’s the real insanity – though I happen to agree with the sentiment, by renewing my season-ticket it’s me that is helping maintain the status quo.

Really, given the circumstances, how can I moan about something IÂ’m kind of responsible for?

Jim Bennings
67 Posted 11/05/2015 at 09:52:13
The trouble is though, Sam, the only way we would continually reap the money in is if we were in the Champions League on a yearly basis, this is what has built and cemented the position of clubs like Arsenal, Chelsea and Manchester United.

If, and itÂ’s a massive if, we ever could make it there, would you trust the men in charge to make it a moment that changed the landscape at Everton FC? Lots of clubs have made it once or twice to the Champions League and never seen it again and nobody has heard of them since.

To truly benefit from it, you need to be there on a regular basis and not just make it the one-off day trip that you could just see happening with Kenwright in charge.

John Atkins
68 Posted 11/05/2015 at 10:15:44
Change of direction:

May have already been said but our 72 points from last season would have been plenty enough to qualify for CL this season!!!

Eddie Dunn
69 Posted 11/05/2015 at 10:11:28
Eugene, okay you might need LOADS of money to actually win the title, but breaking into the top 4 is do-able, but if you do it, you have to have invested to help get through the qualifying stage, and then perhaps back yourself and spend again to do it again. That is my point about taking a bit of a gamble when it is there to grasp. Not do a "Leeds" and throw borrowed money left, right and centre.

This is realistically still a possibility, not a probability. Southampton this season are a case in point. With just a bit more spent in January, they could have got top four. You just need to have vision and back your manager. Not silly money, just a reasonable amount.

A good academy and a manager/scouts who have knowledge of the Euro leagues, where you can still pick up a bargain or two.

Chris Leyland
70 Posted 11/05/2015 at 10:19:26
Here is a stat for you....

Martinez has presided over the second worst season-on-season decline in terms of points won in our entire history. Even if we win the last two games and end up on 50 points (and that is a big if) we will still be 22 points worse off than last season.

The only season worse was the demise the year after we won the league in 1969-70. Even the year under Moyes when we finished 17th was not, in terms of points, as a big a drop as this year will end up being.

This to me is nothing to do with money and everything to do with the manager, his tactics and his general, all round ineptness.

Jim Bennings
71 Posted 11/05/2015 at 10:20:52
Let’s not forget the last time we finished 4th, the entire summer was spent patting ourselves on the back whilst we farted and fumbled in the transfer market and eventually we started what should have been the season of a lifetime with limited players like Bent, Naysmith, the re-signing of Pistone and a couple of injury prone average signings such as Simon Davies, Van Der Meyde and the downright failure Per Krøldrup.

We had a chance that summer to change the landscape of the football club but we fucked it up sensationally and spent too long playing the Collina blame game, forgetting that weÂ’d already lost the home leg to Villarreal and that had we been out there signing the truly top class players, then maybe just maybe we might have seen a new beginning at this club.
For the vast majority of Moyes time here he got it spot on in the transfer window but I bet even now he would love to do that summer of 2005 from scratch all over again.

As I say, if we ever did get through to the group stage, itÂ’s no use just patting yourself on the back, failing and then going back to mediocrity, we would need to be prepared to move the club on the next level both on and off the pitch, itÂ’s something that we were totally virginal at in 2005 and it showed.

Eddie Dunn
72 Posted 11/05/2015 at 10:36:16
Jim, absolutely.

Martinez was dining-out all summer in Brasil getting patted on the back, whilst our players were getting blamed for EnglandÂ’s shortcomings.

It shows that in the modern game, if you sit still you get overtaken. No time for complacency on the pitch or upstairs.

So much hope for this season has turned into so much bile for Martinez – he let us imagine.... only to wake up and realise we weren’t about to sip a cup of freshly roasted coffee, but we were back to Asda’s Value instant.

Patrick Murphy
73 Posted 11/05/2015 at 10:26:39
Joe Beardwood isnÂ’t saying anything that most of us have not known for some considerable time; however, his talk about the ground move is something that we should be concerned about.

Bill won’t lose any sleep over what Joe has had to say – in fact, in many ways, it vindicates him for being prudent and not throwing good money after bad in a pointless pursuit of trophies.

Not requiring a new stadium – because we haven’t got the potential to fill corporate boxes and it may saddle the club with debt with no real gains – is another statement that BK will welcome as it will put off any potential buyers and gives the board the reason to delay any new costly development or indeed re-development of Goodison.

It isnÂ’t just the fans who are affected by this constant propaganda of 'money buys trophies' mantra, but players are also sucked into it and the Premier League this season reflects that as two thirds of the clubs worry about relegation rather than taking risks to climb into the higher echelons and the football on offer is mostly pragmatic and boring from most teams if not all of them; Arsenal and Man City occasionally being the exceptions.

In EvertonÂ’s case, I have long said that taking a point a game from the usual top six (Arsenal, Spurs, Liverpool, Man Utd, Man City and Chelsea) and taking four points off each of the rest of the teams in the division gives us 64 points and is about as good as it gets for us, last season being exceptional. A total of 52-56 points is an OK season whilst anything below that is a poor season.

So from that perspective JoeÂ’s assessment is bang on the button and it will take an exceptional manager and team to break into that elite group for a club in EvertonÂ’s financial position.

We’ll all keep going to the game and carry on fretting about results but, deep down, however unpalatable Joe’s reasoning is, we all know we are mostly howling at the moon – therefore it is imperative that the manager and team realise that we need to be entertained, it won’t make us feel any better about the lack of trophies but it will be a damn sight better than being trophy-less and bored to death!

Denis Richardson
74 Posted 11/05/2015 at 11:19:41
We have the 11th highest wage according to the 2013-14 table so currently going by the OP we are where we are supposed to be – using these numbers.

Based on this table however, West Ham, Swansea, Stoke and Southampton all have wage bills lower than ours (and are above us in the table) and Newcastle, QPR, Sunderland and Aston Villa all have wage bills higher than ours and are below us – make of that what you will.

Moving on, the 2014-15 money table actually has us in 8th on the wage bill, based on this we are currently grossly UNDER performing. (Only QPR outside the top 6 have a current wagebill higher than us.)

Our wage bill does not explain failing to beat ANY of the following teams this season: Hull, Leicester, Sunderland, Swansea, Stoke (lost twice!).

Our wage bill does not explain going out of both domestic cups at the first attempt and only getting to one domestic cup final in 20 years!

Also IF our commercial income was bigger, we would be able to fund a higher wage bill.

Conclusion – we will not be breaking into the top 4 anytime soon but our performance this season has been well below what it should have been. No excuses, we have been shite this season, both in results and entertainment.

Denis Richardson
75 Posted 11/05/2015 at 11:40:41
Forgot to add, from the 10 league games against Hull, Leicester, Sunderland, Swansea and Stoke, a possible 30 points, we picked up.....

9 points

Await to hear how our wagebill explains that one given all 5 teams have a lower wage bill.....

Helen Mallon
76 Posted 11/05/2015 at 11:55:51
Joe Beardwood – get your head out of your arse. We need a new ground!!!

You can give me all the stats you want but Everton need a new ground with bloody hotels and corporate boxes and we will get people sponsoring the ground.

Laurie Hartley
77 Posted 11/05/2015 at 11:32:08
Phil @ 64, you may say IÂ’m a dreamer - but IÂ’m not the only one.

I am with Dean @ 36, Nicholas @ 42, Dick, Andy, and Phil @ 46,47 & 48.

Actually the dream had nearly died until I read AndyÂ’s "Corinthian" post on the Slumbering Giant Part IV.

A terrible feeling of apathy had come over me after the latest false dawn of us hammering United. But AndyÂ’s post made me feel like an Evertonian again.

I donÂ’t know quite how, but as my dad told me before he passed away (he took me to my first match in the early 60s) "we will be great again". (I know IÂ’m like a broken record.)

I hate the thought that money and might will always prevail – there is something better and greater out there than that.

There is also something that Everton Football Club has that nobody else has – Everton in the Community. Something is gnawing away inside me telling me that, that institution is the vehicle that could attract the calibre of player, management and leadership that we need to Everton Football Club.

Roger Helm
78 Posted 11/05/2015 at 12:10:33
RikÂ’s (#57) quote of Damon Runyon hit the nail on the head. Giant-killing is part of footballÂ’s attraction but in the long run, and the EPL is a damned long run, the big, rich clubs will always prevail.

We have to go all-out for the League Cup next year. It seems our best chance of actually winning anything.

In the long run, what concerns me is MartinezÂ’s lack of nous in the transfer market and the failure of our Academy to produce enough players fit for the first team.

Tony Abrahams
79 Posted 11/05/2015 at 11:49:21
I still think Everton will win Big Honours again, Phil; what would the point be, if I didnÂ’t.

DonÂ’t think you need a Billionaire Owner, either. IÂ’m sure it could be done, has itÂ’s already happened in Spain and Germany.

My biggest gripe with David Moyes, was when he came back to Everton for Baines and Fellaini. "I know how Everton works" was what the phoney bastard said.

What he should have said was, "I know how Bill Kenwright works".

Everton, an English Institution, is slowly getting strangled by one of its own. Because he hasnÂ’t got the money to take us forward. A man who realised his dream when he became "Our Chairman", and still thinks heÂ’s the best man for the job.

When we came 4th in 2005, we couldnÂ’t sign players that summer Jim, we never had any money. Moyes gave us stability, and an incredibly low net spend, during his 11 years in charge, but we are still skint.

We no longer own our training ground and there is a charge on Goodison because, although football has never been richer, we are still fucking skint.

Football stinks right now, although Everton's players never had to do anything. Having a whip round to pay the first tenner on the West Ham tickets for the fans? I donÂ’t know wether to laugh or just be grateful!!!!

Steve Barr
80 Posted 11/05/2015 at 13:01:57
I sadly agree that the top four is basically sewn up because of money but IÂ’m less convinced that a clubÂ’s wage bill would necessarily decide one's league position.

IÂ’ve posted elsewhere that there are only so many world class players and most of them are either playing in one of the top four clubs in England or elsewhere in Europe.

A large majority of the rest (in my opinion) are overpaid over hyped and over here! A good coach running a decent club like Everton should definitely be competing and finishing well up the table... and above any wage bill position.

Unfortunately we donÂ’t have that manager at the moment.

Bobby Thomas
81 Posted 11/05/2015 at 12:51:20
Decades on – no investment into the club's infrastructure & playing staff began biting long ago.

Football has changed & we are stuck in a time warp. The club has got to adapt, it's not 1987. Like it or not, West Ham & Newcastle are now probably bigger clubs than us in the modern Premier League.

Look at how Newcastle developed the club in the last 25 years. Developed the ground, expanded their fan base. IÂ’m talking pre-Ashley here. Yes, they have hamstrung themselves with insane managerial appointments, but they have grown the club.

They had to do all that to essentially become us & slightly overtake us, but they did it. It doesnÂ’t happen by accident, they did it. People got behind it, they now get 50k every week. Celtic were a mess 30 years ago, but they did Parkhead & developed the club. These examples have been well documented. We have been having this conversation for DECADES now.

We have actually been very well ran on the football side in the last 10-15 years, it's the other aspects which have been lacking. If you could merge the footballing aspects of managerial stability & good recruitment EFC with the growing the club/commercial/infrastructure aspects at Newcastle, you'd have the perfect mix.

The natural conclusion to things, as they stand, is that in approximately 15-20 years, EFC could well be not in the division or scrapping for survival as we increasingly drift, stagnate & slide down the wages paid table. The board has failed to move the club forward in the biggest boom football has known & ever will know.

People can say what they like about Moyes. He masked the board's failings with a largely outstanding transfer policy that meant the board were able to stem losses with transfer dealings toward the end of his tenure. It is slow-motion decline that this board are unwilling to confront.

The last of these brilliant signings, Coleman & Stones, may well be gone this summer. After that, what the future holds is worrying. If the manager gets it wrong, deep shit beckons.

If we ever got relegated, I am unsure if the club is strong enough to withstand it due to the previous decades of no investment in all areas.

This board is a roadblock to any progression & development & need to go.

Dan Parker
82 Posted 11/05/2015 at 14:16:46
Relying on the wages table for his analysis is fundamentally flawed. Smaller clubs with less of a rich history or permanence in the Premier League sometimes have to pay higher wages to attract Â’talentedÂ’ players to their club. QPR are a fine example of this, paying high wages to attract a bunch of mercenaries.

Our relatively low wage bill is in part due to BK having a strength in negotiating deals after years in the business. Tony Fernandes when coming into football with QPR said how difficult the whole transfer process is.

If he looked at the wage bill and factored in other variables such as the estimated value of the whole squad, the balance sheet etc, he might have a point. I really donÂ’t buy this 'punching above our weight' nonsense, Moyesey achieved it for the most part over a 10-year period.

If we were finishing in the Champions League spots, IÂ’d agree with him.

Dan Parker
83 Posted 11/05/2015 at 14:22:09
WeÂ’re practically victims of our own mindset, I donÂ’t hear other clubs described like that at all, except perhaps Wigan under Martinez.

Uh oh...

Phil Walling
84 Posted 11/05/2015 at 14:52:41
QPR are in big trouble for expending about 200% of their turnover (thanks to the generosity of their owner) in support of Â’ArryÂ’s achievementÂ’ in returning them to the Prem.

It couldnÂ’t happen here, of course (thankfully Goodison is a long way from Bournemouth and our owners are more Â’discerningÂ’) but as Â’FairplayÂ’ operates on a percentage of turnover basis, the Sky Six with huge revenues have the means to maintain their status for all time.

Anyone who really believes constant (Top Six) success is not all down to money is deluded. Get to love seventhish, please!

Scott Goin
85 Posted 11/05/2015 at 15:09:45
I completely agree with Beardwood that money rules the league. In general, what a club spends will determine their approximate position in the final league table.

Fortunately, itÂ’s possible for a club to break out of this mold with a convergence of fortuitous events, well placed spending, and strong leadership. It certainly seemed like we were starting down that yellow-brick road over the summer when Lukaku and EtoÂ’o showed up. How many years had it been since having a transfer window like that? I still wonder what could have been if a few more things had gone our way early in the season. Tragically, it was not to be and things collapsed rather quick.

IÂ’m willing to give Martinez one more year to turn things around. ItÂ’s not all all uncommon for a manager/club to come down significantly after a great year. It actually happens quite a lot. What we need to see is how they will react after this disappointment. Does it make them stronger, more cohesive, and determined? Or does everyone start asking for transfers and playing for themselves?

Bottom line, weÂ’re only a year removed from the best season in decades and have many of the same players. I truly believe Everton can turn this around and get back to those heights. Will it be hard to bypass 6 clubs spending a lot more money that us? Certainly. But not impossible.

Paul Jeronovich
86 Posted 11/05/2015 at 15:54:50
Again, we dream of past glory days returning but we were not shafted by this board but the former. If Johnson had've built the stadium on the waterfront, our chances of the sugar daddy at that time would have increased tenfold. Instead, he almost bankrupted us by sending money here, there and everywhere, Steve Simonsen, anyone?

LetÂ’s be honest, Man CityÂ’s owners were not put off by Man Utd but had the foresight to see a Premier League team in a nice new stadium and plenty of growth potential. Kenwright has no money and unfortunately Goodison is fast becoming an eyesore, the surrounding Kirkdale area is screaming out for regeneration; over to fat Joe then...

I for one do not want Kenwright to borrow vast sums of money when we were all worried about our debt once upon a time. Now that is under control (I think), fans turn their focus to lack of investment or KenwrightÂ’s lack of investment. We broke our transfer record last summer instead of selling and not re-investing.

IÂ’m not content, I want us to be the best but IÂ’m real enough to not want the club to be put in jeopardy by a dodgy foreign owner or people who donÂ’t care about our club. IÂ’ll keep going whether we are in the Prem or the Conference. So long as EFC exists. COYB

Jim Bennings
87 Posted 11/05/2015 at 16:10:17
Tony

The fact is though during the summer of 2005 we DID have the money and we had the carrot of the Champions League to attract quality players.

We still had the Rooney money from the previous summer and we had talks with the likes of Bellamy, Scott Parker and Robbie Keane but we snubbed them.

Patrick Murphy
88 Posted 11/05/2015 at 17:08:57
Last 10 years Top 6 finishes:

Arsenal (10)
Aston Villa (3)
Blackburn Rovers (1)
Chelsea (10)
Everton (5)
Liverpool (7)
Man Utd (9)
Man City (6)
Newcastle (1)
Spurs (8)

Last Five years:
Arsenal (5)
Chelsea (5)
Everton (2)
Liverpool (3)
Man City (5)
Man United (4)
Newcastle (1)
Spurs (5)

There is a definite pattern emerging and we are less likely to get in those top 6 places in the future as Aston Villa will be back among the big boys next season if they manage to stave off relegation this term.

Victor Jones
89 Posted 11/05/2015 at 16:59:11
Of course money matters. The few teams that can afford the 㿔M players will always take the top positions in the Premier League. Not exactly rocket science, working that one out.

I have said enough about Martinez. But I will say one more time, that Everton FC will do nothing with this man in charge. It is nothing to do with money. It is all to do with poor management, poor tactics, poor team selection, poor use of substitutes, poor defending, poor fitness levels, poor set piece play, poor everything.

What had money got to do with the rubbish served up over the Christmas period? What had money got to do with that defeat against Sunderland? What has money got to do with the silence shown from Kenwright all season?

I fear for Everton with Martinez in charge. I hope that Kenwright really can see that Martinez is not going to take Everton to the promised land. I hope that there are at least six teams worse than Everton in the league next season. If not, then the only money that Kenwright will be counting will be the parachute payment.

We need a new manager. We need a new focus. We need a new direction. We need an ejection of energy. We need new ideas. Or if you like, a new philosophy.

We need a top class manager, with a top class coaching staff. No journeymen managers need apply. Surely Kenwright can prove his worth and deliver on that front. Forget about all this money talk. Get Everton back to playing football. Get Everton back to being competitive. Get some pride back. Well, I can dream... which is more than our board seems to be willing to do. Martinez out. FOREVER EVERTON.

Victor Jones
90 Posted 11/05/2015 at 17:31:22
Of course money dictates how high up the Premier League a team will finish. That is hardly rocket science. But a good manager can make a difference to a team that has limited funds. A good manager can guide an unfancied team into the top six. And also get a few good cup runs... Moyes was close to being that manager.

Martinez had that chance. But his tinkering tendencies got the better of him in his first season. His second season has been woeful. God help Everton when Martinez starts to dismantle the Moyes defenceand starts to build his own. Here's hoping that Kenwright comes to his senses before that happens...

A new manager might just be the best investment that our useless board needs to consider asap. Save the club money in the long run.

Tony I'Anson
91 Posted 11/05/2015 at 20:36:30
Frank (#19)

To be fair to Joe, when I first met him over 3 years ago, he was saying then what is being reported now.

Nicholas Ryan
92 Posted 11/05/2015 at 23:32:35
Everyone who went to Lille, marvelled at their fabulous new stadium –their toilets were posher than our corporate boxes!

Does anyone know how it was funded?

If they can do it, why canÂ’t we??

Eric Myles
93 Posted 12/05/2015 at 03:16:17
Paul (#86) "we were not shafted by this board but the former. If Johnson hadÂ’ve built the stadium on the waterfront,"

Did Johnson have an opportunity to build a stadium on the waterfront? Did Bill?? What happened to it?

DidnÂ’t Johnson propose a ground move only to be opposed by Goodison for Ever(ton)? Which was soundly supported by Bill??

DidnÂ’t Johnson waste money on the new Park End stand? What has Bill contributed to the development of Goodison? Blue stones around the pitch?

Jim Bennings
94 Posted 12/05/2015 at 12:20:22
Money hasnÂ’t dictated how Swansea can somehow finish 12 points ahead of Everton, who spent 㿈 million on a striker last summer, add to the fact Swansea lost their main forward in January.

In four seasonÂ’s up, Swansea have won a Cup and finished above Everton once, without spending shitloads of cash. It's about having a manager who can reignite passion amongst the players and understanding how the game is played in the Premier League.

Money wasnÂ’t the reason we failed home and away to too many sides that we SHOULD have beaten... and money should not dictate finishing below Stoke, West Ham and Southampton, who sold half a team and lost their manager.

Tony Abrahams
95 Posted 12/05/2015 at 12:43:54
Have to disagree, Jim. Why did we snub them? Neville came from Man Utd, possibly as part of the Rooney deal. Who else came in?
Patrick Murphy
96 Posted 12/05/2015 at 12:56:31
According to TW archives which are easily found by checking the links provided at the top of the home page these players arrived at Goodison in the Summer of 2005.

31 Aug 2005 Andy van der Meyde ٟ.8m
28 Aug 2005 Nuno Valente ٟ.5m
25 Aug 2005 Matteo Ferrari Loan
4 Aug 2005 Phil Neville ١.5m
21 Jul 2005 Alessandro Pistone Re-signed No Fee
30 Jun 2005 Mikel Arteta ٠m

Eric Myles
97 Posted 12/05/2015 at 13:58:44
Jim #87, maybe they snubbed us.
Bobby Thomas
98 Posted 12/05/2015 at 19:52:09
Scott Parker was wages; I think weÂ’d agreed the fee of around ٤.5 mil, went to Newcastle.

Moyes knew we needed a mid, was trying for Barry Ferguson as well who made the frankly ridiculous decision to go to Souness at Blackburn because of the Scots/Rangers connection. He then played shit & spat his dummy & ran back to Rangers at the first opportunity. I think we may have agreed about ٦ mil, lucky escape made to look good in a shit league.

Bellamy has said it seemed someone had been in Moyes ear about his character. They had the first meeting and it went great. Second meeting was totally different, you don't do this, you don't do that etc.

Keane, cant remember really but if I had to guess transfer fee or wages. Was never oversold on him anyway. Blew hot and cold and a home player for me, would turn it on one in three/four.

Tony Abrahams
99 Posted 13/05/2015 at 10:37:49
Bobby, Everton were in for both Emre and Parker, but would have only had the money to sign one of these players. They both signed for Newcastle, and it was only then that ArtetaÂ’s complicated move was sorted out.

Something to do with Tax, was the reason for the delay, or just maybe Mikel was only third choice for Moyes. Interesting that other than United, who owed us money, all our transfers came from the never, never of Europe.

We had already signed Beattie in the January, so itÂ’s not as though we never spent any money that year though.


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