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Elstone cautious over new stadium proposal

by | 22/05/2015  Comments (125)  jump

Everton Chief Executive Robert Elstone says that patient steps are being taken over a potential new ground but that the club must also ensure a move doesn't jeopardise the Blues' future.

Quoted from his end-of-season notes in Sunday's match programme by the Liverpool Echo, Elstone explains that progress for a possible stadium development at Walton Hall Park has been "steady, often frustratingly so," due to the "desire to dot every i and cross every t'."

He says that an "impressive" planning team has been identified to help drive the project when the time comes but — crucially — that phase can only begin when the necessary funding mechanisms are in place.

As would be the case with any new stadium construction, it is the funds that are proving to be the biggest obstacle and Elstone insists that it has to make long-term financial sense.

"We would need to think very carefully about a new stadium that adds the burden of significant debt on the club," he says.

"The stadium has to protect and enhance our long-term future, not in any foreseeable way jeopardise it. What is certain is we need to be on top of our game' at all aspects of funding.

The powerful regeneration benefits will need to unlock the maximum support from our Local Authority and release all potential grant monies, he continues.

We will need a great naming rights deal, and these have been few and far between.

We also need to do all of that whilst listening to, and respecting the concerns and needs of all our neighbours — our existing neighbours at Goodison and our prospective new neighbours at Walton Hall Park. There's an Everton way to do things.

The cautionary tone to the CEO's comments are the first indications of a more circumspect approach by the Board towards a new stadium development which was previously held up as vital to the club's future.

Elstone references Goodison Park's status as "an intense and intimidating stadium very dear to all of our hearts," but he maintains that a new ground "could be the catalyst for a significant, step-change in progress."

Nevertheless, his comments are a tacit acknowledgement that the landscape of the Premier League has changed to the point where the financial advantages of the Walton Hall Park scheme — or any other proposal so heavily reliant on a mix of funding from the local council, sponsorship and Everton taking on more debt — must be weighed seriously against the risks to the club's long-term financial health.

"The top of the Premier League is dominated by either unlimited and almost unimaginable owner wealth or a big, modern stadium that gets filled every week, Elstone explains, echoing sentiments expressed by financial expert Joe Beardwood in a recent presentation to the Shareholders Association.

"The situation at Goodison isn't the same as that encountered by Arsenal at Highbury. We don't have season ticket and hospitality waiting lists and we're not turning away thousands of fans every week.

Similarly, we're not based just up the road from the richest square mile in the country. Arsenal built the Emirates, turned the tap on and the fans filled it overnight; attendances almost doubled.

"The economics for Everton are less clear-cut. We will undoubtedly generate more money if we fill 50,000 seats but the investment is more marginal and more risky.

Liverpool Mayor, Joe Anderson, backed up Elstone's notes by saying that while the Council will do everything in its power to help Everton, there were limits to its ability to help fund the project.

"What Robert Elstone has said in his programme notes is that this is a financial problem that the club needs to resolve," Anderson said.

From the point of view of the city council there are financial and legal constraints that limit what we can do."  


Reader Comments (125)

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Ross Edwards
1 Posted 22/05/2015 at 20:44:17
Basically, Walton Hall Park is dead, so thatÂ’s essentially the 3rd failed attempt at a stadium move by this board, and essentially HowardÂ’s attitude is that essentially this season has been just one big unfortunate accident that canÂ’t be helped, so nothing will be learnt from it whatsoever.
Paul English
2 Posted 22/05/2015 at 20:56:25
WeÂ’re going nowhere...
Paul Jeronovich
3 Posted 22/05/2015 at 21:08:14
Staying at Goodison is not an option. I love GP but even though every year I renew my season ticket I canÂ’t help but envy some of the stadiums out there. Time to move by whatever means.
Clive Rogers
4 Posted 22/05/2015 at 21:13:46
I have never had faith in the board to deliver this project and the tone of this statement is pessimistic and backtracking.
Dick Fearon
5 Posted 22/05/2015 at 20:58:47
As I predicted, WHP is being set up as a decoy, a cheap season ticket selling scheme, a temporary crafty dodge to stop the wolves, namely the fans from howling ,a cop out for a board that has no intention of spending a cracker or seeing it completed. If you donÂ’t believe me, I ask that you study ElstoneÂ’s words carefully. He mentions a dozen or more ways the entire project could collapse.

If this board of charlatan carpetbaggers had any genuine desire to sell or build it would have happened over a decade ago. Stanley Park is ready and waiting all building permits have been passed by the city council and a spade could be in the ground within days.

Think about ElstoneÂ’s word and wonder why WHP gets a mention. The answer is staring us in the face.

Gareth Fieldstead
6 Posted 22/05/2015 at 21:30:43
Not happening then? No idea why this was even considered. Even if we suddenly was competing for the championship how many extra fans would we have to accommodate? 5 to 6 thousand? An additional stand on the Park End and rebuild Bullens and the rest of the ground in the future. Affordable in the context of the extra television revenues and would accommodate any Â’extraÂ’ fans out there who would only turn up if we were winning things again.
Gavin Johnson
7 Posted 22/05/2015 at 21:36:56
Good post there, Dick. I was about to say why the hell arenÂ’t we staking claim for Stanley Park now the RS are staying put. WHP does seem like a smokescreen and a lot of BS designed to keep fan descent down and season ticket sales up. IÂ’m sick of this board!
Ross Edwards
8 Posted 22/05/2015 at 21:40:45
It was never a goer. What a shambles we are. Why announce the plans in the first place if they knew that they didnÂ’t have the funds to build it?

ThatÂ’s 3 failed stadium moves under this board now. Three.

Incompetent, clueless idiots with no business sense or a coherent plan at all. And those supporters who unbelievably are still supporting this board who keep saying Â’Careful what you wish forÂ’, we donÂ’t want a billionaire, we just want a competent businessman with a clear plan for the future.

Patrick Murphy
9 Posted 22/05/2015 at 21:43:11
Mayor Anderson has added that Liverpool City Council are restricted in what they can do to aid a ground move both legally and financially and that it is for Everton FC to resolve the funding problems. A new build has never been on the cards without significant funding from outsiders, be it Grants or loans and therefore the last decade has been woefully wasted.

Even a new build on Stanley Park won’t happen without Everton FC raising the necessary money; the solution has and will always be – unless a takeover by rich owners takes place – to renovate Goodison, even if that means reducing the capacity to circa 30-35k.

How much money have Everton FC wasted on the various proposals over the years as they used to say on the Radio Â’back to square oneÂ’.

Tony Abrahams
10 Posted 22/05/2015 at 21:42:17
Something has got to give soon. FootballÂ’s gravy train has got to end one day and if we are still in a dilapidated Goodison and still in debt when it does it will be the end for us.

Was it not the club who told us we might struggle for a safety certificate at Goodison in the future?

ItÂ’s scary having these people in charge of our club.

James Flynn
11 Posted 22/05/2015 at 22:13:19
Dick (4) - On the other hand, Elstone did give us, "The powerful regeneration benefits will need to unlock the maximum support from our Local Authority and release all potential grant monies," he continues.

HeÂ’d be a hit in politics.

Colin Glassar
12 Posted 22/05/2015 at 22:16:26
I only read the first paragraph then gave up. BKÂ’s spin doctor is just like his master... full of it.
Ralph Basnett
13 Posted 22/05/2015 at 21:26:34
Andy Burnham next head of Labour Party, get elected PM, give the commonwealth games to Liverpool, new stadium to Everton - done deal, watch this space!!

Titter, snigger, hee hee....

Colin Grierson
14 Posted 22/05/2015 at 22:27:27
How many get-out clauses can you put in one statement?
Patrick Murphy
15 Posted 22/05/2015 at 22:34:04
Colin (13), I wish I had halve of those caveats when promising the nearest and dearest something she wanted to purchase when I had no intention of spending a large amount of money to fulfil her wishes – I could have bought EFC, well perhaps not, but I would have had a lower bank overdraft at the very least.

Steve Hogan
16 Posted 22/05/2015 at 22:30:06
Why oh why is anyone in the least surprised at the current statement?

This charlatan has full control of the Â’shopÂ’ whilst Uncle Bill remains 200 miles away in the West End, far away from any flak being thrown around.

I notice Joe Anderson and his PR team moved quickly to distance themselves from the statement issued by Elstone, making it absolutely clear, that Liverpool City Council could not fund in ANY way, EvertonÂ’s financial part of the project.

Honestly, when I saw EvertonÂ’s proposed Â’partnersÂ’ in this failed fiasco 12 months ago, I knew it was doomed to failure.

One a City Council, who have been raped financially by the current Government over the last five years, and face more draconian cuts in the future, and two, a housing association who havenÂ’t got a pot to piss in.

You really could not make this up... nurse, whereÂ’s my pills..

Kunal Desai
17 Posted 22/05/2015 at 22:34:45
Why doesnÂ’t the puppet master just come out say there will be no new stadium at WHP or whatever the site they have in mind. In fact why is it that Everton can never do/get anything right?
Lloyd Brodrick
18 Posted 22/05/2015 at 23:01:45
Local Authorities are being cut to ribbons, 𧵥m reduction for Liverpool in the last 3 years I believe. We simply need to build it ourselves via the TV deals. IÂ’d go for Canadian dock and park a cruseliner as the executive south stand. Now that would be an attraction!
Tony Dove
19 Posted 22/05/2015 at 23:08:41
Gareth, post 5 says it all – and it’s all been said before.
Colin Leckey
20 Posted 22/05/2015 at 23:11:30
The boardÂ’s monumental, history changing cock up was Kings Dock 10 years ago. Had that happened, Sheikh Mansour would probably have taken over us not City and look where weÂ’d be now... Now, sadly, the case for building a big now stadium is indeed a much harder one to make out.

The bigger clubs are so much further ahead of us financially itÂ’s far from certain itÂ’d help us make up the gap the way it once would, even assuming we filled it, which is far from certain, and if we didnÂ’t it could soon become a huge albatross. Sadly FFP almost certainty means the days of attracting billionaires with money to burn are over. We missed the boat.

Peter McHugh
21 Posted 22/05/2015 at 23:11:43
LOVE IT! "Funding mechanisms" – means cash or a loan.

We have an "impressive planning team" on standby when some absolute lunatic invests but doesnÂ’t want to be owner.

It’s hilarious. Anybody else thinks "mmmm I’d like to do something like this (have a nice meal, holiday, buy a car or house) I must try and earn done money and save. Our board goes "I think we should move seems like the in thing ok let’s do it – great city centre location oh sugar we don’t have the money so we ’ll go to Kirkby and get cheap as chips stadium but cost us nowt – oh sugar we got in a bit if shit over that – mmmmm right let’s go half a mile down the road – the council and fans will love that ..... Oh sugar forgot why we failed the first time ... We have no money. I must write this reason down so don’t forget again how silly of me.

Once this stadium fails they’ll go back to getting a free stadium – right everybody loved the first one waterfront .... Hold on I’ve written it down – that’s right we have money so must get it for free – oh Aldi will build us one in New Brighton. Yes, brilliant, let’s do that. I’m sure I should have written something else down on my checklist .... Mmmm ... No all seems ok let’s do it.

Patrick Murphy
22 Posted 22/05/2015 at 23:17:45
I think what annoys me the most about the whole situation is that not a single penny has been put aside in the last 10 years for a new build or a redevlopment of Goodison, what sort of business doesnÂ’t have a contingency plan in place that covers all of the bases.

It has come to the point where the board should be asked why we have any debt at all because nothing has been invested in the infrastructure of the club for a decade or more, it could be argued that less than nothing has been invested if you look at what assets have been taken away from the balance sheet over the years.

Obviously wages have taken a large chunk of the money and transfers have on the whole been self-funding, so where exactly has all the revenue gone in the last decade?

The only winners from a decade of Premier League football have been Vibrac or whoever it is that we pay large amounts of money in interest to. Whoever argues that we are a well run club should think again and ask themselves how we have managed to fritter away so much money for so little return.

Bobby Thomas
23 Posted 22/05/2015 at 23:25:59
Well fuck me, what a surprise – we can’t fund it.

The only reason I thought it had chance was I didnÂ’t think they would actually have the nerve, the front, to go public with yet another half-baked, unfunded, undeliverable "plan".

Oh... they have.

KenwrightÂ’s a Blue, though.

Phil Walling
24 Posted 22/05/2015 at 23:12:26
Nobody born in or before the fifties will ever live to set foot in an Everton stadium other than Goodison Park. As has been pointed out above, this is the THIRD project trotted out to avoid the much simpler – and affordable – phased development of our traditional home. Boards, Executives, Managers? Charlatans all of them.

Everything about EFC stinks. And to think, so many of us have wasted our lives over it!

Ian McDowell
25 Posted 22/05/2015 at 23:38:28
Same old idiots running the club. Talk of stadium move has been going on for over 15 years now. ItÂ’s getting boring!
Patrick Murphy
26 Posted 22/05/2015 at 23:38:11
I think the club should run a new campaign "Evertonians are Born – Yesterday, not manufactured" as that is what they seem to think of us as paying customers.

Peter Laing
27 Posted 22/05/2015 at 23:43:28
The man is an absolute weasel of the highest order, the RS start construction on their new main stand and wholesale redevelopment of Anfield and we get the third instalment of the smoke a mirrors modus operandi of stand by Â’Operation GoodisonÂ’.

We all know that – after Eric Pickles and his chums in Whitehall have taken a hatchet to the City council’s funding – any such enablers are not going to be forthcoming.

Bobby Thomas
28 Posted 22/05/2015 at 23:49:45
Very good that Pat!
Steavey Buckley
29 Posted 23/05/2015 at 00:03:52
A new stadium should be off the Everton books, instead funded by an Everton trust fund. Then the value of Everton FC would not include the stadium. In that way, future funding for new players and their salaries would not be put in jeopardy; and would make Everton more valuable for an outside party to buy Everton without having to pay for the stadium as well.
Bobby Thomas
30 Posted 23/05/2015 at 00:25:20
Issue of new shares. Could get knocking on half the shortfall in funding.

Oh, they wonÂ’t do that either.

Andy Crooks
31 Posted 23/05/2015 at 00:54:35
Bobby, of course they wonÂ’t do that. The strategy is staying in the Premier League. ThatÂ’s it. If winning a cup puts that at risk we wonÂ’t be winning one.

It is appalling that the lack of any cohesive plan is being passed off, and accepted by some, as prudence. It seems to me that Bill Kenwright has discovered the perfect plan:

Stay in control.
Stay in the Premier League.
Perpetuate the myth that this is a result.
Live the dream on the cheap.
Believe, without any room for doubt, that you are the safe pair of hands that guides our club through the perils of modern football.

Nicholas Ryan
32 Posted 23/05/2015 at 02:28:03
Is this Â’impressive planning teamÂ’ the same one that failed so dismally over Kirkby?

By the way, what did we [and it is effectively, WE] pay them for the last debacle?

Derek Thomas
34 Posted 23/05/2015 at 03:32:08
To all the Major Shareholders;

Why did you buy them in the first place, you didnÂ’t all go to the match on Uncle CyrilÂ’s bike.

If you canÂ’t sell these shares for more than you paid for them, or even a bit less if you have a good accountant, whatÂ’s the point??

Unless you like having expensive certificates in a draw or framed on a wall... Why did you bother?

What you going to do now?

Well??

My bet is absolutely fuck all... same as always.

Matt Traynor
35 Posted 23/05/2015 at 06:37:54
Derek #34, they bought them to make money. Whoever sold it to them as a "Get Rich Quick" scheme obviously didnÂ’t plan sitting on them for the best part of 2 decades.

The club was about ٣m in the black in terms of assets when they bought it. Within a year it was magically 㿀m in the red. Was it a leveraged buyout? If so they basically got the club for nothing.

If that is true, then essentially whatever they sell their holding for is profit. Next question is how much profit is acceptable?

If theyÂ’d delivered Kings and got the new buyer, then I wouldnÂ’t begrudge them making a tidy profit based on increasing the value of the club. But to simply use the increased revenues of the Premier League as a basis for making a fortune, they are no better than con artists or scheming bankers. Being a Blue doesnÂ’t mean shit to me, but unfortunately it does to enough people to give them a mandate.

Sam Hoare
36 Posted 23/05/2015 at 07:06:44
How many other clubs have built new stadiums or at least made headway with their plans in the decade plus that our lot have been saying it is their priority?

It would be funny were it not so sad.

Ralph Basnett
37 Posted 23/05/2015 at 07:37:41
Why people think the announcement of new stadiums helps with season tickets baffles me?

I buy mine anyway, and the promise of a new stadium, whilst welcome, is never a deciding factor to me. I buy my season ticket to watch Everton and guarantee the same seat.

Eric Myles
38 Posted 23/05/2015 at 07:42:16
"The club must also ensure a move doesnÂ’t jeopardise the BluesÂ’ future."

They didnÂ’t seem too worried about our future when they proposed Desperation Kirkby.

Colin Glassar
39 Posted 23/05/2015 at 07:41:42
If only we could find a modern day Guy Fawkes.
Like Phil 24 said, many of us will never see a new stadium or a championship winning team in our lifetime. Thank you, Bill Kenwright... thank you very much.
Paul Burns
40 Posted 23/05/2015 at 07:41:47
WeÂ’ve been lied to again. The rats are ruining our club in slow motion while so-called Evertonians sit on their hands and knock any dissent.

They say you get the government you deserve but none of us voted for this shambles.

Harj Badwal
41 Posted 23/05/2015 at 07:43:26
Total Shambles....The board have no ambition – just interested in lining their own pockets – fact!

The only way forward has to be the board being forced out; how that is done is another debate.

Eric Myles
42 Posted 23/05/2015 at 07:50:57
Patrick #9 "the solution has and will always be – unless a takeover by rich owners takes place – to renovate Goodison, even if that means reducing the capacity to circa 30-35k"

A renovation will actually INCREASE capacity.

Matt Traynor
43 Posted 23/05/2015 at 08:06:03
There is a risk that a renovation of Goodison, whilst welcomed in many quarters, would actually not be attractive to potential buyers (depending on their overall motives). In the same way that Desperation Kirkby was a risk, it is possible there that they were going to try to get the planning consent and use that as the package to a buyer – who could choose whether to build it or not.

Similar to how FSG took over LFC with the Stanley Park consent, but ultimately favoured a renovation after being given (as usual) a colossal amount of help from the Council.

Tom R Owen
44 Posted 23/05/2015 at 08:07:53
Once again, when the question of finance rears its ugly head...

Kenwright crawls under the nearest rock and is not heard from.

Anthony Hawkins
45 Posted 23/05/2015 at 08:04:54
Elstone is admitting what all fans have known for ages: the club has no money. The board are not injecting any cash so the stadium can not be built. The only way this venture, and presumably previous ventures, were ever likely to get off the ground is if the council fund the build along with grants.

What a state to be in. WeÂ’re a club who really are living hand to mouth. When is Bill Kenwright ever going to admit to being a dictator who is keeping the club down?

Eric Myles
46 Posted 23/05/2015 at 08:30:38
Anthony, Kenwright believes he is the best man to sell the Club, despite the nearest he had come to doing so is to a bloke in a bedsit.
Bobby Thomas
47 Posted 23/05/2015 at 08:39:31
To be honest, itÂ’s just getting to the point that I completely loathe the bastards.

They have virtually destroyed any enthusiasm I have for the club.

For God’s sake – just get out of the club.

Murdo Laing
48 Posted 23/05/2015 at 08:28:19
Underinvestment....Jeez! Do any of you even KNOW how much it costs to replace a top quality lawnmower?
Patrick Murphy
49 Posted 23/05/2015 at 08:57:01
Murdo - Especially when it has to deal with all of that sticky grass!
Tom Hughes
50 Posted 23/05/2015 at 08:22:56
Everyone said at the time of the announcement that this was pie in the sky with little or no substance... Other than perhaps as a packaging strategy to sell the club for maximum profit. There is next to no enabling funding to be had from a few houses and a tiny retail development in a suburban park. Barring attracting a rich buyer, this whole project was doomed from the start... A start that just happened to coincide with the clubÂ’s first AGM in years, and LiverpoolÂ’s new stadium redevelopment announcement.

As ever, the fundamentals of stadium planning and funding still stand. No suburban site will yield anything like the enabling package to build even one stand.... nevermind a whole new stadium. This has always been the case. A site closer to the city centre could generate much richer pickings as demonstrated by the Kings Dock... and the added attraction of stealing the centre-ground with all the amenities, public transport infrastructure and of course the prestige. Yet, we stuck a pin in the map at Walton Hall Park... A site that can barely fund a park warden.

Goodison Park can readily be renovated to a very high standard with much of its fabric preserved and/or built upon. This is the only option that can be built in affordable phases...... and this is the option with the least number of imponderables and unknowns. This is also the only option backed by over 100 years of history..... something you canÂ’t buy. All these are the main reasons why the vast majority of clubs have chosen redevelopment ahead of relocation.

Harold Matthews
51 Posted 23/05/2015 at 08:15:41
All this financial stuff is way above my head but it doesnÂ’t sound good. What I do know is that we have dropped to 12th in the wage league which makes us less attractive to good players who become available.

LetÂ’s hope Whelan was right when he talked about the ability of Roberto Martinez because weÂ’ll need a genius at the helm if we are to stay in the top half of the table.

Dave Abrahams
52 Posted 23/05/2015 at 09:18:10
It is no surprise to about 95 per cent of us and yet only last week we had an Evertonian telling us, in a long letter on here, why the club was in good hands with Kenwright and Co.

Martin Mason – tell us again why this is so?

Bobby Thomas
53 Posted 23/05/2015 at 09:18:47
And we will continue to drop Harold.

The ultimate, inevitable, long term result of this board & its failure to develop the club is relegation at some point within the next 15 - 20 years, as the game overtakes us.

We are watching a slow motion Preston North End scenario.

Chris Feeley
54 Posted 23/05/2015 at 08:20:14
The timing of this is typical of the current regime. Â’Early BirdÂ’ discount ends tomorrow, in line with the last game of the season. Therefor, a large proportion of season ticket holders will have already lined the majority of the coffers for next season. Also, with this declaration coming 48 hours before the game, itÂ’s unlikely that any attempt at a formal protest can be arranged to garner some sort of national media coverage. Come 17:00 on Sunday, this will all be swept back under the rug for another 6 months, as Kenwright and Elstone swan off on to their Caribbean cruises safe in the knowledge that the media are far too lazy to suggest anything other than we should feel lucky to have them.

It makes me sick to my stomach that under this board weÂ’ve been actively portrayed in the media as Â’plucky little EvertonÂ’. Expectations both off and on the field have been dragged lower and lower. Any hope for something better is quickly shot down by the knowledge that Kenwright et al wonÂ’t fund anything off their own backs, yet theyÂ’ve spent the best part of 15 years failing to find anybody else prepared to fund their plaything. The only reason we havenÂ’t sold the naming rights to the stadium is that no company in their right minds wants to be associated with a dilapidated and outdated relic that is not fit for purpose. Clubs like Brighton and MK Dons have better stadiums than ours, and theyÂ’ve spent the majority of the last 15 years playing in League One. WeÂ’ve become the Â’Uncle NobheadÂ’ of the Premier League, in that weÂ’ll always be hanging around at the party but everyone else is laughing at us and our outdated attire.

Yet we do nothing about it other than moan in private. We scoff at the Kopites when they fly their banners and march in the streets. We laugh at the Geordies with their websites and billboard posters. We resign ourselves to this fate, allowing ex-Manc pundits to deride any lone attempts to publicise our discontent as disgraceful. The Â’Big 4Â’ are happy to keep us in our box. The likes of Tottenham and Liverpool are happy for Kenwright to run us as the begging boys of the league. Even the likes of Stoke and Swansea see us as rivals beneath them. This is down to Kenwright and his cronies, who are happy to kill all of our dreams as long as they get to live theirs. Yet, unless weÂ’re prepared to make our voices heard, we are as much complicit in the slow death of Everton as any member of our complacent, useless board.

If any proof was needed about how things can change, Rangers are the prime example. Their supporters have gone through the mill over the last 5 years, yet they refused to accept charlatans like Craig Whyte, Charles Green and Mike Ashley trying to pull the wool over their eyes. They kicked off en mass until they got the owners and board that they wanted. It didnÂ’t happen overnight, but theyÂ’re now in a position where theyÂ’re nearly back in their big time with a vision of how to return to being a club that challenges for titles. Why canÂ’t we strive for the same?

John Zapa
55 Posted 23/05/2015 at 09:32:38
I am very surprised at the announcement. Not the the contents but the timing. WhatÂ’s the rush in bursting the bubble just yet?
Surely they could have dragged this issue for another year or so before sinking it. They could have passed another season ticket sales and AGM in that time.

If handled more masterfully they could have done it for another 2 seasons. I guess in another 3 years time, we will hear about the next stadium scheme that will never be built.

Dick Fearon
56 Posted 23/05/2015 at 09:53:34
We profess to be better and more civilized than Kopites yet it has been proved that they would never accept the kind of crap dished out by Kenwright and Co.

Not wishing to put a damper on tonightÂ’s traditional player parade I wish the faithful could show their disgust for BK and his shady mates.

Peter Laing
57 Posted 23/05/2015 at 10:34:15
Is there any coincidence with the passing of Philip Carter, Kenwright being absent from attending recent matches and the discontent now starting to be visibly displayed by fans?
Denis Richardson
58 Posted 23/05/2015 at 10:30:04
WHP was a smoke screen from the start – 6 months ago, or whenever it was first announced, they hadn’t even put a plan together (we’ve ’lined up a great planning team’!) nor figured out more importantly how they would even pay for it.

Fast forward to today and... there’s still no plan and they still don’t know how they’ll pay for it – ie, this thing was a non-starter from the very beginning. Really not surprised at all.

This may be a bit simplistic but what I cannot figure out is how the costs of a new stadium causes an issue when weÂ’ll be getting at least 㿔-50 million extra income for the next 3 years, each year! The increased Sky money (assuming we donÂ’t get relegated) will net the club over 𧴜 million extra in the next 3 years and yet the costs are the major stumbling block. What exactly is the club planning on doing with these extra funds? Pay our players 𧴜k+ a week wages?

ItÂ’s been said a million times on this site about how the board have never said why a phased redevelopment of GP is not feasible (when external experts have said it is). I still donÂ’t understand why we cannot just use the Sky money to redevelop GP one stand at a time over a period of 4-5 years.

Tony Abrahams
59 Posted 23/05/2015 at 10:38:30
Kenwright had better do something soon because, if he doesnÂ’t, even the people who like him might just change their minds.

Dave, Martin will just go on about us not being in London or something along those lines.

This board could have had us playing on the banks of the royal blue Mersey but couldnÂ’t find the 㿓 million and now theyÂ’re telling us theyÂ’re not sure if a new ground is worth gambling our future with? To stagnate is to die but one of the few things Everton could always count on was our loyal support.

We deserve so much better, but it will only come with protest! IÂ’m thinking seriously about voting with my feet, very seriously...

Colin Glassar
60 Posted 23/05/2015 at 10:56:47
We canÂ’t even dream of a palace coup against the ventriloquist and his dummy as the other "directors" appear to be cardboard cut-out eunuchs.

I despair – I really do – about the future of the club.

Dominic Tonge
61 Posted 23/05/2015 at 10:57:20
Sounds to me like the same shit trotted out for years. Are we all really perceived as being that daft? Kings Dock... Destination Kirkby... now this.

If I have understood what is being said, it sounds like:

A) We canÂ’t afford a new stadium on our own (shock!)

B) The council (skint) have told us they wonÂ’t be footing the bill (shock!)

C) Our board will not put their hands in their pockets (double shock!!)

D) Our "underdog, no money, us against the big boys" myth will be trotted out to explain it.

E) We are being fed recycled shite, I mean at least have the common courtesy to invent new bollocks to spout rather than rehashing the same tired excuses.

If the owners and board canÂ’t find a ground or transfers then they are about as much use as a spare cock at a lesbian convention (shock). We as fans need to actually get our act sorted because I donÂ’t want mediocrity for the rest of my life from my beloved club.

If this happened abroad or at Manchester United – or, dare I say it, across the park – there would be all sorts of protests, questions, and it would be high profile. I am fucking sick of Everton to be frank.

Eric Myles
62 Posted 23/05/2015 at 11:07:18
Matt (#43), remember the ill planned Park End Plaza? That would have tied us to GP for fair few years until it was paid off.

Of course that was also to be paid for by someone else and leased back by the Club, à la Finch Farm.

Simon Smith
63 Posted 23/05/2015 at 11:08:43
Just goes to show what a missed opportunity the Kings Dock was!

It would and should have been the world class venue that both US and the city of Liverpool were crying out for at the time and any money that would have been ploughed into that would have been returned several times over by now, I am sure.

Oh well... back to the drawing board, I guess... till the next time we need to sell some season tickets, or till we find that oh-so-elusive buyer, whoever they may be!!

Jim Lloyd
64 Posted 23/05/2015 at 11:06:55
Dear Mr Kenwright,

Unless you and Mr Planet Hollywood and Sir Phillip "HeÂ’s a good friend to Everton" Green make the only practical decision available and develop Goodison Park, then please just piss right off out of Everton Football Club.

Hold a Special AGM to discuss proposals of how we fund the development of Goodison Park, have a vote of all the shareholders about getting more money into the club (on the lines of CelticÂ’s), produce plans for the phased development.

You fucked up over the Kings Dock, you tried to kid fans over Kirkby, it suddenly dawned on you like a bolt from the Blue, that Walton Hall Park was the place to build the New Goodison, and now it looks like thatÂ’s gone up the spout.

When plans were put forward to show that GP could be developed, they were dismissed. It would have been great if we had got the KingÂ’s Dock but thatÂ’s gone.

You said there was no Plan B.

Well Plan B is the only feasible plan available. If you don’t, as a Board, take action – NOW – and start by getting the cock-up over the Park End sorted, I fear, like many others that we’ll just sink slowly into the west. Until one fine day, we’ll be like our ancestors from St Domingo. We’ll be playing in Stanley Park on the Corpy Pitches!

Kevin Tully
65 Posted 23/05/2015 at 11:14:41
Quite simply, the interest the club (not the board) have repaid over the last decade would have funded a complete regeneration of Goodison Park.

Imagine for a moment that it was Robert Earl in charge and Bill wasnÂ’t around. There would have been riots to get that twat out of the club. What difference does it make that Bill is a front for these carpetbaggers, with no interest in the club?

Bill has conned the whole fanbase for 16 years, that takes some doing. To think some people STILL defend our board, a board with no business plan, actually amazes me. I can only think they have a vested interest, or they just like to play devilÂ’s advocate.

Nobody with an ounce of common sense would begin to defend the shocking record of doomed schemes.

No use moaning now, everyone was presented with the facts by concerned Evertonians a few years ago. We have the club we deserve.

Mike Keating
66 Posted 23/05/2015 at 11:18:04
Spot on Simon (63) the concerts alone would have earned us a small fortune and also an ideal venue for conferencing – where would you rather host an international get together; Liverpool One or Stanley Park?Trouble is Elstone & Co would be running it so you can guess what the end result might have been.

This is just another example of end-of-season whistling in the darkness. It would be interesting to see how many times over the last 10 seasons these rumours of progress are leaked out of Head Office but to tell the truth I canÂ’t be arsed and think I can guess the answer (probably 10).

Colin Glassar
67 Posted 23/05/2015 at 11:31:36
Show us the money, Bill!!! Never liked this fella with his smug smile and Boys Pen anecdotes. He comes across as falser than a 㾻 note.

I think heÂ’s lucky that EFC is not a public concern as I can envision him with a pair of striped pyjamas on and a ball and chain around his ankle.

Winston Williamson
68 Posted 23/05/2015 at 11:40:04
We have NO money = no redevelopment of Goodison Park and no new stadium.

Question: In the ever increasingly rich times of the Premier League era – why do we have no money?

In January, when we needed to spend money on players and didnÂ’t, I thought we may be saving our money for the stadium move... obviously not.

Patience is a virtue: well, after nearly two decades of NOTHING, my patience is all gone. I want this board gone. IÂ’d do anything to make it happen. Anything.

Peter Barry
69 Posted 23/05/2015 at 12:21:52
Yes, please don’t ask any awkward questions – we have still got thousands of Season Tickets left to sell, hey, Robert?
Winston Williamson
70 Posted 23/05/2015 at 12:29:29
Note to editors: please can you arrange a poll on TW to gauge the fan numbers who want to see the back of this board? ItÂ’ll be interesting to see if we have a majority of fans who want a change in ownership.

Maybe do it once the seasonÂ’s over, so the results are not affected by match results? Maybe organise a massive poll with other EFC forums?

ItÂ’ll be a preclude to action as we, as fans, can see if there is an inclination to gather for a protest. I really do not care if we are judged Â’kopitesÂ’ or not proper fans. WE must organise change.

Joe Foster
71 Posted 23/05/2015 at 12:52:05
Two words... Fucking disgrace.
Finn Taylor
72 Posted 23/05/2015 at 13:08:17
Are we suprised by this? If there was any will, vision and ambtion at the helm, something would happen.

As for Elstone... heÂ’s just re-written club philosophy and treated himself to a new company car... a Porsche!

John Raftery
73 Posted 23/05/2015 at 12:20:02
This statement is consistent with everything Robert Elstone has said since WHP was announced last year. He is spot on that we cannot risk the club’s financial future. Also, the fans will be up in arms if a new stadium is built at the expense of our place in the Premier League. The extra TV money will be used to reduce the debt and fund the higher wages now being demanded by agents and players – not to fund a new ground.

In the cold light of day, how many of us would be prepared to invest a large amount of our savings in a new stadium venture? I doubt most of us would because it would be far from certain we would get our money back any time soon. External investors are likely to take the same view.

The argument now is between the club and the city council. It was the council which came up with the WHP option as part of its commitment to keep the club within the city boundary. Lack of finance was always destined to be a blocker and without public sector financial support, which was always fraught with legal difficulty, there is little chance of this project going ahead. That was the case when it was announced last year... so nothing has changed.

Joe AndersonÂ’s name is mud in the local area around WHP. The residents have very strong objections to the proposal so the Mayor will not be unhappy to see it killed off.

As for rebuilding Goodison Park, that cannot be done on the cheap. The only readily available land is at the Park End but any proposal to extend the current stand will do nothing to resolve the antiquated condition of the Bullens Road or the Gwladys Street Stands. When we are filling the stadium for the majority of matches; knocking them down and building smaller stands in their place is hardly a viable option.

Patrick Murphy
74 Posted 23/05/2015 at 13:14:29
John, are you submitting your name for a place on the board?

How long will Goodison be able to keep all of its stands open to the public? There is a pressing need for something to happen, whether it be moving or improving. Another long period of inaction will not make the problem go away – whether it is financially viable or not.

Perhaps the solution will be to rent Anfield every other weekend and negate 123 years of history by going back to where we started.

Phil Walling
75 Posted 23/05/2015 at 13:24:10
I suspect John already speaks for the Board, Patrick!
Kevin Tully
76 Posted 23/05/2015 at 13:35:07
John (#73), what do you think the board should do?
Jim Lloyd
77 Posted 23/05/2015 at 13:48:41
Kevin, they should hold their heads in shame... but they wonÂ’t.
Colin Malone
78 Posted 23/05/2015 at 13:14:56
I have always dreaded taking the 12th man away from EFC by building a bowl shaped stadium. Teams dread coming to Goodison.

Look at the teams that have moved to new stadiums, without a sugar daddy?

Where is the Roker roar now? Yes, they are nice and spacious, where you donÂ’t have to queue for the toilet etc. This can be remedied.

I just want to go to the ground to watch my team for 90 minutes, then get off to the pub where I can meet my mates, who sit in another part of the ground and have our discussion on the game.

Nothing can improve my matchday at Goodison. IÂ’m a bit chuffed at the news.

Eric Myles
80 Posted 23/05/2015 at 15:05:21
John (#73), you should read Tom Hughes’s proposals for a phased development and come back with a reasoned argument why it’s not possible – rather than making shit up.
Steavey Buckley
81 Posted 23/05/2015 at 15:15:48
The reason why there wonÂ’t be a new stadium: Bill Kenwright has got no money. And any money available will be spent on players and their salaries. Nobody will invest in an new stadium then hand it over to Bill Kenwright for free.
Jackie Barry
82 Posted 23/05/2015 at 15:20:58
The disgrace on all this is the amount of Blues, like John, who still support this lot. Get out now and hang your heads in shame BK and friends.
Bobby Thomas
83 Posted 23/05/2015 at 15:16:53
Colin #78

One of the most short-sighted and blinkered posts IÂ’ve read in a while. Something needs to happen, be it redevelopment or a move.

By the way, in their last season at Roker Park, the attendance was approx 22,000. Sunderland now average 46,000. That kind of thing happens when you give your fans hope and progress your club instead of repeatedly slapping them in the face.

Paul Washington
84 Posted 23/05/2015 at 15:01:36
Is any body surprised that were being softened up for failure in Round 3?

The worst thing about the whole farce is Goodison Park could have been revamped in the time since Kings Dock went. Look at the localish rugby league teams: Warrington – new stadium; St Helens – new stadium; Widnes – total rebuild... all these stadiums beat GP hands down (attendance notwithstanding).

Yes, I know itÂ’s not as expensive as a Premier League stadium but, if it is pro-rata, the rugby teams went out and procured financial help whist Gordon Clegg and chums have done nob-all apart from flannel us. Shame on the bloody lot of them; the club is ruined.

Colin Glassar
85 Posted 23/05/2015 at 15:40:38
IÂ’m with Winston, we need a TW poll to see who backs this board and who doesnÂ’t. I think it will easily be 98% for one of the options.
Denis Richardson
86 Posted 23/05/2015 at 15:31:08
John 73 - do you by any chance work for the club?

Your post basically is saying nothing should be done about the stadium issue as we don’t have the money to have a decent squad and sort out the stadium, so the squad should take priority. There’s an obvious problem with your thinking – see it’s a bit hard to have a decent squad if you don’t have a stadium that they can play in!

Goodison is just about functioning for now but how many more years do you think we can go on like this? Every year, the issue just becomes bigger as the can is kicked further down the road. Run through the teams in the league and count how many teams have a stadium older than ours. Never mind the lost revenues from having a dilapidated stadium.

I think a vast majority of fans would be happy to see the team finish in the lower half of the table for a couple of years IF it meant the club finally sorts out the stadium. It’s not like it would take decades – the work could be completed in 3-5 years depending on what was being done and more importantly its in the long term interest of the club. Also, external experts have already confirmed that a phased redevelopment is possible – would probably be cheaper than building a new stadium from scratch as well.

Regardless, I wholeheartedly disagree that if we used some of the Sky money for a GP redevelopment it would harm the playing squad so much that relegation would be on the cards. We obviously don’t have to use all the money at once – a phased development is, well... a phased development... ie, one stand at a time. The squad and the stadium are not mutually exclusive projects and using that as an excuse is exactly the kind of crap BK and our CEO regularly come out with.

One thing the club continuously refuse to explain is why in their eyes a redevelopment of GP is not feasible. The question has been asked many times but no explanation is ever given – do you not find that a little bit odd? Especially when other parties have confirmed it can be done.

Over the next 3 years ,the club is going to get 𧴜M+ EXTRA revenue from Sky; I cannot foresee another opportunity like this ever coming round again. The money will be there – there is simply no excuse for not solving this issue and the fact that cash seems to be trotted out as the main problem is worrying. If we have a decent manager and maintain the current wagebill, we will be nowhere near relegation – we had a shite season and will still finish 10th, ffs.

Graham Mockford
87 Posted 23/05/2015 at 15:45:23
Colin #85

It depends if you think it is representative of the wider Everton fanbase. I suspect most fans really arenÂ’t too worried about the Board, and even at its height in 2011 when the Blue Union were organising marches against the same regime currently in charge, they failed to mobilise enough fans to make a change. A few good results later and it had all gone quiet.

And thereÂ’s the nub really; probably the only way that you will convince enough people to protest is a disastrous run of results. You know... a bit like Newcastle.

This is not me being pro-BK – in fact, I am of the view although he might not be the devil incarnate some believe, he has nowhere to go with this club. We are on a revolving wheel of midtableness that cannot possibly change under his administration. Whether there is a better option out there... who knows? But I’d take the chance.

Lee Gray
88 Posted 23/05/2015 at 16:05:43
As if I would believe anything that comes from our Board!
Paul Hughes
89 Posted 23/05/2015 at 16:02:17
If we donÂ’t do something soon In a few years, Goodison Park will be turned down for a safety certificate then we will have to share with the Redshite. I have friends in ireland who wonÂ’t travel over because their seats are always stuck behind pillars.
Eric Myles
90 Posted 23/05/2015 at 16:42:31
Paul #89, if it was a safety issue, the board would be forced to do something about it; but – in the 10(?) years since Bill started scaremongering – have they?
Mark Wilson
91 Posted 23/05/2015 at 15:40:47
Usually one of the biggest problems here is that past, and even current, fans who have voiced varying degrees of support for Kenwright in a number of differing situations are immediately labelled "sheep" or "apologists" etc and the debate gets stupid and often abusive. But I honestly donÂ’t read that here or elsewhere for that matter. I remain clear that IÂ’m not about to spit on the man in the street or even rant at him through car park railings but, for many years now, even the odd apologist has had enough of the appalling financial mess that is slowly strangling our club.

I find criticism of Elstone continues to be of the rant variety with so little understanding of how management works, anywhere, let alone at a Premier League football club. Seriously, how many of you have been a CEO in a multi-million-pound business? What do you expect of ANYONE reasonably qualified to do that kind of job? LetÂ’s see now, itÂ’s something like this "we expect the CEO to not defend any position the board takes, to accuse his Chairman and Directors of being charlatans and worse, oh and to rubbish literally everything about the organisation he or she leads"?

Within the bounds of the hierarchy he is part of, Elstone has been as honest as he can be. He knows some of his defensive briefings are worse than Martinez’s pathetic ability to organise his team’s effectively – and that’s saying something – but what else is he expected to do? "Resign" I hear you say? Well, on that basis, we shall have one new CEO every week.

Elstone is as frustrated as most at the clubÂ’s inability to move forward. But I suspect he is chastened by whatÂ’s happened in numerous other places where so-called "investment" has delivered a downward spiral that makes our mediocrity look adventurous and even "okay".

IÂ’m dismayed that Bill Kenwright cannot see that his "Evertonianism" has long since passed its sell-by date as a rationale for defending the behaviour of Robert Earl and for the failure to find new investment and now the every-five-years collapse of a new ground project. When I thought I was being pragmatic in BillsÂ’s defence, it was often because I did frequently fall back on his usually half-decent football knowledge and stewardship of that side of the club. But then he allowed a clearly struggling manager to destroy years of progress... ish... and set us back another half-decade on the playing side.

Years ago, I – and I think a fair number of people – argued that the failure of Everton FC was actually that we desperately need to understand nobody will invest 𧹈M to fund a new stadium, clear the debt, and start team investment with around 㿷M funding. Instead, our only chance to turn things round was to accept, however hard, that we have to do this the "football" way. This isnÂ’t simple or easy but it means that in the next three years we allocate half the Sky windfall to a less than exiting but still "much improved" re development at Goodison and the rest to a frustrating but still possible vision of building on young players coming through... backed up by clever dealings in the transfer market.

Until Martinez imploded and wrecked the decent (if not sensational) foundation left by Moyes, and turned Champion League contenders into near-relegation fighters and tippy-tappy nightmares, there really was a platform to build on. But, whilst weÂ’ve gone backwards, badly, others have progressed and IÂ’ve never been less enthusiastic about a new season as I am 2015-16 because it appears that we are just sitting back and accepting that we can no longer compete.... ever.

I know there will be shouts of "it’s not possible" about the stadium redevelopment. I know some insist we must have 200 executive boxes. I know some say it just can’t be done. But frankly I’d rather we stop all this new stadium crap now, accept it’s never happening, and push for a modest rebuild that may only increase exec boxes by 30 and capacity by 3,000-5,000 at the most... but deliver a true "football stadium" – not a concert arena in an economically more advantageous area... and a playing side that is a risky mix of young talent with the odd (hopefully) bargain buy who quickly becomes a star... aka Tim Cahill.

Too much to ask? I guess so... but the negative comments in this thread are not people having a go at apologists; instead, most are screaming "make your bloody minds up and set out a vision we can actually achieve"... Or something like that.

Phil Walling
93 Posted 23/05/2015 at 17:19:58
Denis @ 86. You ask why Â’phased developmentÂ’ has always been ruled out by BK & Co. IÂ’ve always suspected itÂ’s because by insisting on a new site, they are able to put off the issue indefinitely whereas development based on Goodison would see us calling for an early start.

There has long been a hope that all parties could enjoy a huge payday via a retail development incorporating a stadium (as with Kirkby) but that concept now looks very last century even though Rugby League clubs are still building 10,000 stadiums on the back of it.

Let’s face it, we are only discussing this because whilst LFC have started on their re-vamp, the Council have had to make it clear that all they can provide us with is the land – and even that is proving very contentious!

.

Colin Malone
94 Posted 23/05/2015 at 17:32:01
Bobby@83.

I agree, it is a blinkered view. I love Goodison Park for its atmosphere. If it means going to a bowl-shaped stadium, I would rather stay. Look at the Mancs and the Shite, I am pretty sure they donÂ’t like these bowl shaped stadiums. I was hoping that we could have same build format as Goodison on the Bestway site, which is still in the Everton area of Scotland Road. That would be nearly as good as the Kings Dock.

Paul Washington
95 Posted 23/05/2015 at 17:58:07
Colin 94, agreed. If we have to move, I would like a modern Goodison Park even with the same stand names so the same people could go to their similar seating areas to keep friendships and atmosphere.

Also, as you state, the Bestway site is better than WHP. But alas, it's pie in the sky .

Dick Fearon
96 Posted 23/05/2015 at 19:03:39
Even now, after all this debate I have not heard a whisper about why we opted for WHP and not Stanley Park.
Paul Andrews
97 Posted 23/05/2015 at 19:31:17
ItÂ’s never going to happen while we have this chairman and board.
The sooner we accept this the sooner we will stop working ourselves up over something that wonÂ’t happen.

The board have proven themselves to be a millstone around the neck of Everton FC time and time again.

Phil Walling
98 Posted 23/05/2015 at 19:49:49
I donÂ’t think too many Evertonians would be unhaapy about a new ground in Stanley Park. And if it was alright for Â’themÂ’ to build there it should be alright for us!

Trouble is Â’theyÂ’ couldnÂ’t afford it so how the hell our lot would ever raise the cash, God only knows!

John Raftery
99 Posted 23/05/2015 at 20:20:57
Denis (86) I donÂ’t work for the club. I am just another supporter who attends every game home and away.

Eric (80) I did not say a rebuild is not possible. What I did say was that it cannot be done on the cheap. Of course anything is possible but TomÂ’s proposals look very complex and do not address the issue of cost. Indeed even if all the logistical problems could be overcome the cost is likely to be more than it would starting from scratch on an empty site. There are no easy or cheap solutions.

Kevin (76) Given that a new stadium is a non-starter in our current financial situation, it looks like we have no alternative but to embark on a long term project to revamp Goodison. By long term I mean something which can be delivered over a period of at least 10 years. The first step is to start buying up property around the ground. Frankly I have long since given up any hope of seeing a new stadium so I agree we should do something realistic at Goodison. But, as I have said, it is no use any of us pretending it will be a low-cost or low-risk solution.

Matt Muzi
100 Posted 23/05/2015 at 21:28:32
Here at Everton we have:

A board who wonÂ’t invest their own money into the club;
A chairman whose been looking for a buyer/investment 24/7 for over a decade;
A stadium which is falling apart (who remembers seeing the roof on the top balcony waving in the high winds earlier this season before it got held back by cable ties!);
An ageing squad;
A club whose off field revenues are pitiful;
Replica kits & merchandise operation run by a third party company who appear to take most of the profits;
WeÂ’re still in debt??

And yet again a board who seem to think weÂ’re all stupid & they can give us all any old bull & weÂ’ll lap it up.

While Kenwright & Co run our club, weÂ’re going nowhere, because to me there is no ambition, or ability it would appear to move us forward.

Tom Hughes
101 Posted 23/05/2015 at 21:39:26
John....
The article links to just one of my proposals, the one put forward by KEIOC at the time of the ballot.

I originally completed a study of various redevelopment options ranging from preserving all the historic structures and adding a wrap-around upper tier above and behind those stands, to simply replacing one, two or three stands.... and/or the basic replacement of the Upper Bullens and Upper Gwladys with new larger upper tiers.... including rough costings.

All were generated via a sightline modeller and CAD. At the time of the ballot I could only locate one schemeÂ’s full CAD files... and that was the one presented.

Redevelopment, can be expensive... but generally, if much of the existing fabric can be utilised, then it need not cost more to redevelop than to relocate... and quite often the outcome can be higher quality due to this saving.

Steavey Buckley
102 Posted 23/05/2015 at 21:58:29
Extra revenue from TV rights only increases the cost of transfers and salaries – with extra money in circulation causes inflation.
John Raftery
103 Posted 23/05/2015 at 23:02:24
Tom, I hope you are right because it will probably be the only viable way forward. With attendances as high as they are currently we will not be able to close down parts of the ground for rebuilding unless or until we have created extra capacity in other parts. Things were different in the eighties and early nineties when the ground was usually less than half full.
Tom Hughes
104 Posted 24/05/2015 at 00:36:21
Lots of clubs have managed to rebuild without loss of capacity. LFC are doing precisely that as we speak. As did Cardiff, Newcastle, Sunderland and several more Before them.
Kevin Rowlands
105 Posted 24/05/2015 at 02:12:57
Been reading from some very reliable sources on social media that Bill is seriously ill; he missed the season awards because of it. IÂ’ve got a feeling that there are some big changes coming up.

Despite my differences with BK, I honestly do wish him all the best, he really does love Everton.

John Raftery
106 Posted 24/05/2015 at 07:13:23
Tom - Cardiff and Sunderland moved to new purpose-built stadia which were erected in a way and in locations which would facilitate future expansion without impacting on current attendances. The same applies to Manchester City who this season have been building an extra tier at the visitorsÂ’ end. Goodison currently is land locked and the old stands need significant modernisation.

It is difficult to see how we can rebuild without at least temporarily affecting capacity. Part of the solution might be to increase capacity at the Park End before partially demolishing and rebuilding either the Bullens Road or Gwladys Street.

Gareth Lewis
107 Posted 24/05/2015 at 07:52:27
John, both Cardiff and Sunderland have added extra capacity to those new stadiums since they were originally built.

Similarly Manchester City are building around the current stand (where the away supporters sit) with barely any reduction in capacity.

Dave Abrahams
108 Posted 24/05/2015 at 08:59:12
Kevin (105), he was at the West Ham game last week, so I hope he isnÂ’t seriously ill.

He might love Everton but not in the way most Evertonians love the club. In my opinion, his affection for Everton is mostly all show. I’ve said it before, I have never met an Evertonian like him, just doesn’t behave like a real Bluenose – it’s all put on to impress other lovies like himself. He’s an utter phoney to me, but I really hope his health is okay.

Colin Glassar
109 Posted 24/05/2015 at 09:10:48
Dave Abrahams, I back every word you say 100%. BKÂ’s always struck me as being a total phoney. His put on accent, his boy pen yarns, his Cannonball Kid tales, his crocodile tears whenever heÂ’s on camera, his slow, dramatic, hand clapping, his sardonic grin, his constant natter about "my Jenny", his repetitive story-telling, his utter failure to take Everton forward: Kings Dock, Destination Kirkby, "ringed-fenced funds", shitty sponsorship deals, "Watch this space", his constant, pathological lying, his NHS specs etc...

I canÂ’t stand the man but if heÂ’s sick I hope he gets better.... then resigns!!!!

Jim Lloyd
110 Posted 24/05/2015 at 09:09:14
It would look like the idea of building a new stadium has been put on ice (if not in the cold storage unit down the docks). So, it seems to me that the idea of building a new stadium, is just that, an idea and will stay an idea to be floated, every now and again, to keep the natives from becoming too restless.

If thatÂ’s the case (and thatÂ’s how it looks) then the only option available is to rebuild on Goodison Park. I think the view that it would affect attendances is valid, but only in the sense that the attendance would be affected temporarily.

The idea of a temporary reduction didnÂ’t worry the club when we had a pathetically low attendance figure down at the Park End due to safety concerns. Nor did it seem to worry the club by having figures drawn on an empty stand and then a great big open space where the Park End used to be.

So it can be done. If we could resolve the palaver about ownership in the Car Park at the back of Bullens Road, that would offer us massive space to build a stand probably twice as big capacity as the current stand.

We could use the existing space reserved in the Bullens Road for away supporters, to house most, if not all, of the season ticket holders in the Park End.

So what IÂ’m trying to say is... we can do it. we can rebuild the stands, just like we did with the Goodison Road Stand, just like we did with the Park End.

Yes, it would mean a temporary reduction. But if this club doesnÂ’t rebuild on GP, nor have any serious intention to build a new stadium. Then my fear that eventually, the reduction in numbers attending Goodison Park will become permanent.

But letÂ’s see if this crew are going to come out with a set of proposals to do... anything at all. I doubt it.

Jim Lloyd
111 Posted 24/05/2015 at 09:39:12
Totally agree Colin.
Rick Tarleton
112 Posted 24/05/2015 at 11:08:16
Kenwright and Elstone, the men of vision, the men to prepare our great club for the future. From the King Dock fiasco onwards all that Kenwright does is wave from the DirectorsÂ’ Box. He is not over-seeing our club, he is our undertaker.
Jim Lloyd
113 Posted 24/05/2015 at 12:18:16
True indeed Rick. The man reminds me of that feller who wouldnÂ’t leave the Chairmanship of Man City while they went down and down.
Paul Mackie
114 Posted 24/05/2015 at 12:45:05
Someone correct me if IÂ’m wrong here, but with matchday revenue now making up a smaller percentage of EvertonÂ’s income due to the size of the TV money, surely the case for phased redevelopment of GP is stronger than ever?
Paul Burns
115 Posted 24/05/2015 at 16:53:58
Are we not in the richest league in the world and have been since it started?

People have got to stop saying we have no money because weÂ’re fucking rolling in it and it's being wasted somewhere.

Tom Hughes
116 Posted 25/05/2015 at 07:12:45
John,
Man Utd extended an end stand built in the 70’s. LFC are currently extending a stand, the bulk of which was built in 1906. Glasgow Rangers added a tier to a 1920’s Leitch stand.... and within the confines of a listed structure. There are many other examples to show that such redevelopment is not necessaily age constrained. Everton can do precisely the same with our old stands and without loss of capacity, as these examples have shown..... and of course the Parkend can be extended easily taking up any shortfalls in anycase.
John Raftery
117 Posted 25/05/2015 at 10:00:43
Tom, I agree we could extend the Park End fairly easily. The original design for the existing stand built in 1994 provided for a second tier but of course the plug was pulled on that for financial reasons. That still leaves the other three sides to renovate. They can be done over time but we would need to find the money and the additional land.

A new stadium, if it could have been delivered, was always a more attractive proposition with the naming rights bringing in part of the required funding. It may also have attracted investors and sponsors. Rebuilding Goodison, which I agree now appears to be the only feasible way forward will take many years, if not decades.

Manchester United have been able to do it twice since the 1960s and prospered. A similar strategy adopted by Wolves in the late seventies almost killed them off. As I say, while it can be done, the rebuilding option requires very careful consideration, planning and above all, money.

Tom Hughes
118 Posted 25/05/2015 at 11:31:57
John.... redevelopment has been the favoured option by the vast majority of clubs.... and for good reason. Naming rights can be lucrative but are not always, and are not confined to new-builds in anycase.

The point is, clubs only generally relocate when they have to.... because of prohibitive costs or physical constraints of the existing site, or due to opportunity and/or incentives at another site. Constraints at GP are less onerous than at many clubs who have still chosen to redevelop.... as indeed is the case for LFC. WHP is a suburban park with little or no scope for even a moderate enabling package incentive, and certainly nothing sufficient to fund a whole new ground.... or even 1 stand in all likelihood.

Goodison however has much of what we need already in place. It can be transformed by adding just 15,000 new seats (10k nett) via a new larger upper Bullens tier, and extended Park end. Reprofiling the lower Bullens and Paddock too, to create essentially a whole new stand on that side... free of all obstructions. This and an extended Park End could easily match the capacity of the WHP proposals for a fraction of the cost.... and offer multi-tiered format on all sides. ... as opposed to on just one side at WHP.

In other words I believe the outlay could be less, and the outcome vastly superior in many ways.... thatÂ’s before you get into the all important public transport comparisons too. At no point have the club demonstrated the unequivocal need to relocate.... Other than it is perhaps a more hassle-free method to package the club for a high profit sale.

Steavey Buckley
119 Posted 25/05/2015 at 12:23:12
How many homes, schools, shops and pubs will have to be demolished to transform Goodison Park? ThatÂ’s if planning permission is given; followed by planning objections; that usually take years to be heard and the final decision given.
Eric Myles
120 Posted 25/05/2015 at 13:21:21
Getting a bit melodramatic there arenÂ’t you Steavey.

The answer is none, but in your fervour you forgot to mention churches which would be more likely since there is one abutting the ground.

Eric Myles
121 Posted 25/05/2015 at 13:26:24
And Steavey, thereÂ’s already objections to WHP as there were to Desperation Kirkby.

Can you suggest an objection-free location that would be suitable?

Patrick Murphy
122 Posted 25/05/2015 at 14:13:23
I thought this was interesting from Mr Elstone, obviously they are getting a little sensitive about the criticisms that are currently doing the rounds about possible investment etc. He concluded in his blog

"What remains a fact is that any prospective investor approaching Everton will find a receptive and transparent chairman, at the head of a well-run club, with a long list of appealing attributes: a club with a strong sense of purpose, a distinctive identity, a track record of top-six finishes, a great training ground and Academy that delivers some of the best young players in the country, a large, passionate and engaged fan base, with a great future ahead of it."

No Strings attached

See things arenÂ’t as bleak as we might think?

Steavey Buckley
123 Posted 25/05/2015 at 14:39:34
Eric: to rebuild Goodison Park, 3 stands would have to be replaced by 3 cantilever stands, and the Goodison Park footprint would have to be increased. That would mean that houses, pubs, shops, a school and a church adjacent to the ground would have to be demolished, with all the implications that follow from such a decision.
Phil Walling
124 Posted 25/05/2015 at 14:45:20
Jim @111.

I think you refer to the late lamented peter Swales who took over Man City in 1973 and supervised a great decline in their fortunes over a relatively short period.

Just like Doug Ellis at Villa, Swales gave short shrift to failing managers – which he had appointed – once firing one ’for having no repartee with his players and the fanbase’!

Much as I am critical of BK’s reign – and there is much to be critical about – he has been comparatively successful when compared to Swales – if only because we have maintained our Premier League status. Quite what he thinks about Roberto’s ’repartee’, we can only imagine!

Tom Hughes
125 Posted 25/05/2015 at 15:02:28
Steavey,

We donÂ’t need 3 whole new stands at all.... and we certainly donÂ’t need to knock down the church. Only two streets abutting Bullens Rd.... containing the cheapest houses outside any ground in the whole UK. The school is ripe for redevelopment and a hotel development could readily be built into the park end.

We can readily realise 50k unobstructed seats at GP..... as has been shown several times. Unfortunately, it require a bit more effort than producing a glossy sales brochure to maximise profit for a sale.

John Raftery
126 Posted 25/05/2015 at 17:27:20
Editors - please not post 117 isnÂ’t from me. I posted something else but not that!
Michael Kenrick
Editorial Team
127 Posted 25/05/2015 at 17:37:36
Sorry, John. Should be fixed now.

Anyone else seeing posts that arenÂ’t theirs, please let us know. ItÂ’s a problem at our end. Thanks.

John Raftery
128 Posted 25/05/2015 at 17:46:11
Thanks Michael, thatÂ’s the one I sent.

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