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Villarreal in for Ferguson testimonial

26/06/2015  Comments (109)  jump
Match scheduled for 2 August

Everton have announced they will take on Spanish side Villarreal on Sunday 2 August in what will be a curtain-raiser for the new season and a testimonial for Duncan Ferguson.

The club will recognise the 43 year-old ex-striker's 10 years of service as a player and first-team coach. Kick-off will be at 3pm.

Villarreal, who finished sixth in La Liga last term, were the opponents for Everton's infamous Champions League qualifier in 2004/05 when Ferguson saw what appeared to be a fair goal controversially ruled out by Italian referee Pierluigi Collina. The effort could have sent the tie to extra-time but instead Everton bowed out of the competition and Ferguson retired from playing at the end of the same season, netting in the last minute of his final appearance to earn a 2-2 draw at home against West Bromwich Albion.

Ferguson was recently awarded the Chairman's 'Blueblood' trophy at Everton's End of Season Awards night in recognition of his dedication and achievements, with that honour now set to be followed with a momentous event at Goodison Park.

The match will be Everton's final pre-season fixture of 2015 and the only one played at home. Tickets for the clash will be priced at 20 for adults and 10 for Under-16s and Over-65s and will go on sale from 8am on Monday 29 June.

"It's humbling to think that the Club think of me so highly," said Ferguson, a 1995 FA Cup winner, on learning of his testimonial. "I love this football club, I love being here every day and I cannot wait to see the fans at Goodison Park on 2 August."

Everton Chairman Bill Kenwright added: "From the moment Duncan agreed, I felt there was one European club in particular the fans would love to see us take on again. Everton loves Duncan Ferguson and Duncan Ferguson loves Everton. I have said before that he is one of the biggest ever Evertonians not to be born on Merseyside."  


Reader Comments (109)

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Christopher Wallace
2 Posted 26/06/2015 at 16:01:19
IÂ’d rather see him take on Collina in a testimonial boxing match... and IÂ’d pay a lot of money to watch!!

Petition anyone??

Craig Mills
3 Posted 26/06/2015 at 16:22:45
The day after the Leeds game?
Shane Corcoran
4 Posted 26/06/2015 at 17:00:49
Let me be the first one to ask why he gets a testimonial when his 10 years come from coaching as well as playing?

Should Moyes have had a testimonial for 11 years as manager?

What about the bold Bill himself?

Adam Carey
5 Posted 26/06/2015 at 17:53:09
Happy that Dunc is getting a testimonial. The guy clearly bleeds blue, and in a time now where loyalty and badge kissing from players seems as shallow as their agents, he reminds me of when a player fell in love with a team like the supporters do.

I always laughed at the fact during his Newcastle days (a move he and us never wanted) that the other players in the changing room would have seen his Everton 9 tattoo showing where his heart was.

Stephen Brown
6 Posted 26/06/2015 at 18:18:40
Not a great fan of testimonials these days! However Dunc Â’gets itÂ’ about the Blues so good luck to him!
Lyndon Lloyd
7 Posted 26/06/2015 at 18:28:14
Craig, I suspect that the proposed Everton XI game against TNS Wales might not happen now and that the Leeds game will replace it, leaving the first team to play Villarreal the next day.
Alex Mullan
8 Posted 26/06/2015 at 18:25:12
Shane #4

He gets a testimonial, simply, because he is a legend. He made the late 90s semi-watchable in the midst of a plethora of failure, not because he was good, but because he was a true blue and gave me (as a perpetual underdog at the time) something to cheer for. That deserves recognition.

Colin Glassar
9 Posted 26/06/2015 at 18:33:15
I hope Colina is the ref and he falls into the Gwladys St end.
Denis Richardson
10 Posted 26/06/2015 at 18:31:12
I hope all the money goes to charity and itÂ’s more a gesture than a financial thing.

If I remember correctly, Big Dunc was on 㿏k a week during his last few playing years with us so his bank balance shouldnÂ’t really need boosting from money from the average fan.

He was a legend at the club but IÂ’m also not a fan of these testimonials in an age were almost all Premier League players are millionaires long before they get near retirement.

Alan Bodell
11 Posted 26/06/2015 at 18:42:00
HeÂ’s employed now as a coach, didnÂ’t see the fruits of his coaching last season with our strike force.

I loved the guy when he played and yes, I was there at Villarreal when Collina robbed us.

Give the proceeds to local charities Dunc, youÂ’re not short of money.

Phil Walling
12 Posted 26/06/2015 at 18:50:08
What a bloody farce! If heÂ’s that hard up, IÂ’ll send him a holiday voucher for a week in Cyprus!

Meanwhile Evertonians whoÂ’ve never earned 㿏k in a year let alone a week will skimp and save for the pleasure of chanting his name!

Barry Thompson
13 Posted 26/06/2015 at 19:07:10
Phil, I havenÂ’t got a pot to piss in so can I have one of them vouchers
Ged Simpson
15 Posted 26/06/2015 at 19:22:34
Phil - cheer up man. Your posts are so negative I wonder why you follow football.
Garry Corgan
16 Posted 26/06/2015 at 19:56:26
What the hell? No wonder TW gets a reputation for negativity with comments like some of these.

ItÂ’s not about money (and who cares where it goes anyway?) itÂ’s a chance to honour a club legend - which have been in short supply for the last thirty years.

I, for one, welcome one last chance to see Duncan pulling on the royal blue jersey for one last time.

Brian Keenan
17 Posted 26/06/2015 at 19:55:09
It is like Everton these days – or like that film "On Any Given Day"

He was our leader however he never there?

I remember 1997 and the so called "Great Escape" where was he?

I think he spent most of his time on the bench then he was always sent off?

Michael Ward
18 Posted 26/06/2015 at 19:58:17
I donÂ’t think itÂ’s in any doubt the money goes to charity and I seem to remember that dunc was always good with both time and money when it came to charities. In fact I wouldnÂ’t be surprised if the whole thing has come about because he was championing a charity in the first place.
Phil Smith
19 Posted 26/06/2015 at 17:53:01
I guess one squad against Leeds and another to face Villarreal.
Ross Edwards
20 Posted 26/06/2015 at 20:09:14
I have to say Colin, when Collina was stretchered off in the first half of one of those Soccer Aid games a few years ago it was hilarious.

I donÂ’t wish injury on anyone but I wasnÂ’t sympathetic put it that way.

Joe Foster
22 Posted 26/06/2015 at 20:20:16
Damn right he deserves it. I will be there.
Joe Foster
23 Posted 26/06/2015 at 20:27:20
Oh Garry C if you donÂ’t like TW donÂ’t come here. Simple as that.
Shane Corcoran
24 Posted 26/06/2015 at 20:30:44
He gets it because heÂ’s a legend?

I donÂ’t want to re-open the legend/not a legend debate with regards to Ferguson but surely people can see where this is going with regards to a precedent being set.

Davie Weir had eight years a player and a year and a bit as a coach. His behaviour on the pitch didnÂ’t result on him missing a lot of games. Should he get one?

DonÂ’t get me wrong, I like Ferguson now. I like his passion but a testimonial is way over the top for me after the playing career he had.

Tony Abrahams
25 Posted 26/06/2015 at 20:40:57
Barry I hope Phil hasnÂ’t got his money in one of those banks over there, otherwise he wonÂ’t have a pot to piss in either.

Have to agree with you Phil, I just donÂ’t get it, suppose itÂ’s part of the greater theatre. which is part of our chairmans life.

Chris Barnes
26 Posted 26/06/2015 at 21:11:16
I was in the Bullens Road on the last game and after the team embarrassingly walked past accepting the half hearted applause there was loud cheering coming from the away section. Big Dunc was slowly making his way down the side stopping and talking, having photos with all the fans in the disabled section.

This guy cares about this club and its fans. He had only just got down towards the Gwladys St when the team was making it way back down the tunnel. I think he got the biggest cheer all season when he ran across the pitch to catch them up.

He may not have realised his massive potential as a player, been injured/suspended too much but when he played he was awesome. If we show a glimmer of his passion next season we may do okay. In the last 20 years no one comes close to being a legend compared to the guys from the 80Â’s except Dunc. Maybe Tim Cahill for the same reasons. IÂ’m sure he will pass proceeds to charities as thatÂ’s the type of guy he is.

A deserved testimonial, although a bit odd for a coach. IÂ’ll be going.

Eugene Ruane
27 Posted 26/06/2015 at 21:18:36
I was never a massive Dunc groupie (bit too old for one, plus IÂ’d seen real legends)

Sure he got me punching the air on occasion, but in short, I felt he wasted a lot of his talent and was generally a shit professional and bad role model.

But I have no problem with the game.

Firstly, IÂ’m fairly sure testimonials these days arenÂ’t the same as they were in the past - ie: old pro getting a big dollop of cash before heading into retirement.

Many charities/good causes seem to benefit from these things, so thatÂ’s...good.

Secondly itÂ’s decent opposition and IÂ’m all for that.

Plus I actually am a fan of todayÂ’s Duncan.

IÂ’m impressed with his honesty regarding his past and the changes in lifestyle and think what he can pass on to young players is important.

I believe people can change (for the better) and believe Duncan has.

Oh and like the rest of us, he genuinely loves Everton.

Anyway, IÂ’m going.

Geoffrey Risebrow
28 Posted 26/06/2015 at 22:00:07
I love Big Dunc! My first Everton idol as a kid. We all make mistakes. The criticism of him is over the top. I agree that all the money should go to charity.
Paul Kelly
29 Posted 26/06/2015 at 22:12:16
IÂ’m up for the holiday voucher also Mr Walling. Maybe you could do a raffle, and send the proceeds to Big Dunc to thank him for his services.
John Raftery
30 Posted 26/06/2015 at 22:14:12
Negativity on TW? Never! Duncan played for us from October 1994 to May 2006 apart from a twenty month spell at Newcastle between October 1998 and the summer of 2000. So that counts as ten years in my book. He does not need the money but his name will help sell the game thus benefitting local charities probably including Everton in the Commmunity.
Alan Humphreys
31 Posted 26/06/2015 at 22:30:32
Wonder how long heÂ’ll last on the pitch? Seems to have more life in him warming up with the subs than they do - especially Miralles when heÂ’s on the bench.

I agree with some of the comments above, when we were shite he at least gave us something to cheer, for me we under used his football skills as he clearly could play on the ground but instead we just launched it at him.

Ooh penalty German Women...

John Daley
32 Posted 26/06/2015 at 22:42:53
See you there Eugene.

I agree Ferguson never lived up to his potential as a player and he himself seems fully aware and quite rueful of that fact. If you listen to him speak (and can attune to the accent) heÂ’s actually quite articulate when addressing the mistakes and misdemeanors of his playing days. HeÂ’s obviously mellowed as a man as heÂ’s matured, and his time away from football seemingly helped him to realise that he had a stronger love for the sport than he once allowed himself to believe. H

Anyway, beyond all that, IÂ’d gladly grant him a testimonial solely for being the last Everton player truly capable of putting the fear of god into the redshite. Their entire back line turned into nervous wrecks when he was around and whatÂ’s more...he knew it.

Shane,

Ferguson did spend ten years playing for Everton though (ok, playing, recuperating from injury, sitting out bans, and staring wistfully out of the bars in Barlinnie wondering how his birds were doing). It was just split over two spells.

He first came on loan in 1994 and signed for Necastle in 1998. Came back to Everton in 2000 and played his last game in blue in 2006.

John Daley
33 Posted 26/06/2015 at 22:44:04
Ah, sorry John Raftery. Missed your post when I skimmed down and it seems you beat me to it!
Shane Corcoran
34 Posted 26/06/2015 at 22:52:41
John #32, strange that it took so long for someone to actually point out that he played for 10 years for Everton.

My point is cheerfully withdrawn.

Shane Corcoran
35 Posted 26/06/2015 at 22:57:23
Oh, I see that I missed John Rafferty pointing it out too.
Ray Roche
36 Posted 26/06/2015 at 22:53:53
I donÂ’t think we should get carried away with the "Testimonial" tag, itÂ’s a pre season friendly which will be used to generate money for a charity of FergusonÂ’s choice and the fact that it has his name attached to it will no doubt bring more punters in. Testimonials these days donÂ’t just give a load of dash for some millionaire ex player to trouser. The proceeds go to charity.
Paul Hewitt
37 Posted 26/06/2015 at 23:25:06
Look, the gate money will go to charity, we will play a decent opponent and gain match fitness – that’s all it is. People moaning need to relax a bit.
Ernie Baywood
38 Posted 26/06/2015 at 23:51:51
Exactly Ray. We were always going to have pre-season friendlies... This just capitalises on his popularity to bring the crowd in for it. And of course charities will benefit.

But of a win-win situation. And people are complaining!

Paul Mackie
40 Posted 27/06/2015 at 00:16:47
As someone who was born in 1980, Ferguson was my idol in the 90s. Apologies for not being born early enough to see Â’trueÂ’ Everton legends, but Dunc is most definitely a legend to Evertonians of my generation.
Phil Sammon
41 Posted 27/06/2015 at 00:43:39
Paul (#40)

IÂ’m afraid that, being born in the 80s, your opinions (and mine) are completely invalid. We were too young to idolise the title-winning sides and our second-rate heroes werenÂ’t fit to scrub Alan BallÂ’s boots. Face it, youÂ’re not a true Evertonian in some peopleÂ’s eyes, unless you were born in a certain era.

Brian Wilkinson
42 Posted 27/06/2015 at 01:21:51
Personally, I would have prefered that game to be an Andy King day, a chance for fans who missed his funeral to give the guy a final send off.

I wrote to the club and got jack shit back, a chance for his family to attend Goodison along with former players like Latchford, Mckenzie, Dave Thomas, Mick Lyons etc.

Surely this would have been a more fitting occasion.

Mike Green
43 Posted 27/06/2015 at 02:42:47
Duncan Ferguson Testimonial – Everton v Villarreal.

ItÂ’s like a miniature work of art.

Mark Andersson
44 Posted 27/06/2015 at 03:36:20
I will be buying 2 tickets one for my son, whos first game was a friendly pre season match against Celtic. He spent most of the match watching the crazy Celtic fans who ended up go ballistic when big Dunc headed the ball into the back of the net.

The other ticket will be for my grandson.

Eric Myles
45 Posted 27/06/2015 at 07:19:56
Shane #24, the time period to qualify for a testimonial is minimum 10 years so regards Weirs 8 plus 1 and a bit, then no, 9 and a bit doesnÂ’t meet the criteria.
Tony Abrahams
46 Posted 27/06/2015 at 07:41:21
Must be me, but if we were playing Liverpool or Man Utd every week, then Ferguson was as good a player as anyone. I tend to think heÂ’s a very lucky man to walk away from football for six years, and come back to a very good job at Everton.

Maybe IÂ’m wrong though, because as John Daley, points out, heÂ’s a changed man these days, probably sees the error of his ways more than anyone, and maybe Everton are lucky to have somebody with that experience around the club.

I think this knowledge would be great at under 18-21 level and was therefore surprised that Duncan was promoted to the first team so quickly.

That said you canÂ’t have enough genuine Evertonians in the set up for me, and as long as HE IS GOOD ENOUGH, I wouldnÂ’t have a problem with Duncan Ferguson managing Everton one day.

Mark Andersson
47 Posted 27/06/2015 at 09:10:47
ItÂ’s a nice thought Tony 46. He never looks that animated during games. I would love to know how the players rate him as a coach.
John Pickles
48 Posted 27/06/2015 at 09:10:09
Villarreal again. This is like Groundhog Day. Do we keep playing them until we finally beat them, then we get to join the CL group stage or something?

Playing DevilÂ’s Advocate here, is it possible CollinaÂ’s decision was correct. I have just reviewed the disallowed goal a few times and IÂ’m afraid canÂ’t even identify Marcus Bent let alone spot any misdemeanour. What does stand out though is that immediately ,several Villarreal players all point to something and yell at Collina. That is not the usual initial reaction of a team who have just conceded a vital goal, disappointment or a goalie berating poor marking are rather more common.

I know the conspiracy theories, but is it possible that Collina actually just reacted to what he witnessed.

Still think he shot JFK and kidnapped Shergar though!

Nick Armitage
49 Posted 27/06/2015 at 09:39:00
ThereÂ’s not a shred of doubt that Duncan will give the lot the charity. Those who are doubting that clearly donÂ’t know much about the man.
Eugene Ruane
50 Posted 27/06/2015 at 08:43:26
Phil Sammon, re (41) - what a nasty little post.

And the last line - Â’Face it, youÂ’re not a true Evertonian in some peopleÂ’s eyes, unless you were born in a certain eraÂ’ - bitter, revealing and 100% untrue.

There are a million different views and opinions expressed on TW about the team, the manager, the board and all things Everton.

And these views are expressed by many different posters of different ages (abilities, heights, shoe sizes...).

Do some (of us) wax lyrical about the past?

Certainly but... itÂ’s allowed.

Is it boring?

Maybe, but I had to listen to my dad and uncles drone on about Tommy Lawton, now my nephews have to listen to me drone on about Alan Ball – it’s just how it works.

But what is definitely fucking nonsense (and extremely insulting) is stating some see others as Â’not true EvertoniansÂ’

My experience of this site is that on the very rare occasions that the Â’better blueÂ’ rears his/her ugly head, they get a swift (and deserved) kick in the plums.

To suggest as you do that there is some wholesale age discrimination going on is utter bollocks.

Ray Roche
51 Posted 27/06/2015 at 09:39:37
Phil Sammon #41 and Paul Mackie #40 ,

Phil, to say that your opinions are completely invalid is a bit daft, would you rather us fans who DO remember past great teams keep our opinions to ourselves or would you rather hear about the likes of Alan Ball etc.? If so, then weÂ’d better change the words of "And if you know your history"...

Nobody asks to be born in a particular era but weÂ’ll all have our own heroes and memories to pass on.

ItÂ’s just that ours are better than yours....:-) .

ps. I had to listen to my arl feller talking about Dean, Dunn, Geldard etc......try following THAT line up!

Shane Corcoran
53 Posted 27/06/2015 at 10:00:04
I assumed PhilÂ’s post was tongue-in-cheek.
Brian Denton
54 Posted 27/06/2015 at 09:54:32
Nailed it Eugene. My heart bleeds for younger Evertonians; I would never think of them as lesser Blues. Stupid comment.

I used to love hearing my dad tell me about his days, DixieÂ’s 60th goal, the 6-4 game v Sunderland, how Jackie Coulter was the dirtiest player he ever saw etc etc. I feel if you are part of the Everton family, the old geezer talking about the golden days isnÂ’t your opponent.

Anyway, we saw Rod Belfitt.

Trevor Lynes
55 Posted 27/06/2015 at 09:51:27
I do not like this penchant for creating so called legends out of players who have graced the club over the generations. Unfortunately some average players have been labelled as legends which actually demeans genuine top class players. Of todayÂ’s group of players cases could be made for Jags and Baines but very few others IMO.

Ferguson deserves his testimonial and should be remembered as a decent centre forward during a time that our team was pretty average. Unfortunately, due to the vast money available to certain clubs in our league we will never again win titles in the near future. We are one of the better also ranÂ’s until we are bought by a mega rich outsider which so far is not in the offing.

Both of our recent managerÂ’s are shopping at basement level and hoping to unearth new stars on the cheap. Fans will say we spent a lot on Lukaku and McCarthy but we took in more than they cost in outgoings which is the way we do business.

So far we have signed Cleverley on a free and Delofeu for less than ٣ million. Clubs like West Ham and Sunderland are each aiming higher whilst the top half a dozen clubs are dealing in hundreds of millions. We are looking at those clubÂ’s surplus players and hope to improve them which seems a bit unlikely.

Anyway, lets hope that the Villarreal testimonial for Ferguson gets well attended and the fans get a spectacle that augurs well for the coming season.

Steve Brown
56 Posted 27/06/2015 at 10:01:02
@41 Phil Sammon, the same person who posted Â’thank god for that resultÂ’ when we lost a game this season. He has a very peculiar range of views on being an Evertonian!

I got a ban for telling him what I thought of him then, so best be careful now. HereÂ’s a clue, it rhymed with Â’wosserÂ’.

Brian Harrison
57 Posted 27/06/2015 at 09:55:52
Eugene

I do feel for our younger supporters who have never seen Everton win a league, my 2 Sons included. So maybe he thinks that because he hasnÂ’t seen the glory sides, then what he says are great players might get a different reaction from our generation.
But Phil you and the younger generation are just as good if not better than previous generations of blues, as its not easy to support a team in bad times.

Steve Brown
58 Posted 27/06/2015 at 10:08:58
And by the way, congratulations to Big Dunc on his testimonial match. In this day and age, to give such much of your professional career on and off the pitch to one club is really admirable. A loyal and valued servant of Everton, who has blue blood coursing through his veins.
Mick Howard
59 Posted 27/06/2015 at 10:14:02
What a week. Deulofeu signs and now a chance to see Duncan again. COYB. After watching the Blues through some real lows/highs/lows of the 70s and 80s, and then back into some pretty dark days again, Duncan believed like we did. Legend.
Peter Mills
60 Posted 27/06/2015 at 10:09:53
Phil (#41). I probably used to think I was a "proper" supporter because I have had a season ticket for many years, and have been fortunate enough to see all the big games over the past 50 odd years.

Then I would meet someone who hasnÂ’t missed a game, home or away, for umpteen years, and I realised I was not quite so dedicated or knowledgeable as I had thought.

Then a few years ago I started reading this site, and began to read posts from people who havenÂ’t been to the match for years. Or never been. But they get up at 3 in the morning in Thailand or California, New Zealand or New York, or listen to the radio from Bootle, to find out how our beloved Blues are getting on, many times to be crushed by the teamÂ’s failure to match the passion of the support.

Do I agree with the views of everyone who posts on here? No chance. Do I respect them as fans, and their right to express their opinions? Absolutely.

Colin Malone
61 Posted 27/06/2015 at 11:02:18
㿀 a ticket mmmm? I would like to see a good crowd for Dunc, maybe 㾶 and ٣ for kids, and give families a chance to go and have a day out.
Peter Bell
62 Posted 27/06/2015 at 13:23:44
Have to agree with what some of the posters have said, we have all been brought up listening to the heroes of our fathers, uncles and grand parents, thats the way it goes, some of us have seen championship winning teams others have not.

To say the views of any post 80s supporter is not welcome on this forum is ridiculous. The only thing that gets up my nose is when people make ludicrous comments like NaismithÂ’s the worst player to ever wear a blue shirt. Obviously not seen any of the dross I have watched over the years

Denis Richardson
63 Posted 27/06/2015 at 14:08:03
Peter, whilst Naismith isnÂ’t the worst to wear the jersey, God knows thereÂ’s a few names who could lay claim to that over the years, I do think though that whoever said that probably meant one of the worst to Â’regularlyÂ’ wear the jersey in Â’recentÂ’ times.

The likes of Straq, whilst giving 200%, were awful players at this level but didnÂ’t play that much. There were also far worse players than Naismith back in the 90s but he IS very average and IÂ’m always underwhelmed when I see his name in the starting XI.

IÂ’ll never forget away to Spurs a couple of years ago when the crowd were chanting Â’keep him onÂ’ when he was subbed off after a shocking performance, he passed and dribbled the ball out of touch a couple of times before he was put out of his misery.

Mark Andersson
64 Posted 27/06/2015 at 14:06:23
Brian Harrison (#57). I like your post, I was born in 1960 got my first taste of being born a blue in 1966 when the blues paraded the FA Cup. By the mid-70s I lost interest as we fell behind the Redshite. I was born again in the mid-80s and was lucky enough to witness those glory years.

I live in Australia and pay $109 per month for Foxtel just so I can follow the Blues. All views are valid, even if you donÂ’t agree with them. ItÂ’s taken me two years of being on TW and a couple of bans to make me realize that.

I love the diverse opinions as it never ceases to amaze me. Long may it continue. Martinez out big Dunc for manager and chairman, haha.

Tony Abrahams
65 Posted 27/06/2015 at 13:55:38
Brian Harrison, your last paragraph sums it up perfectly for me.

The amount of kids who follow Everton home and away is fucking brilliant to see, special fans who keep going despite there team not winning anything during their lifetime.

These kids always make me feel proud, they would go to the end of the earth to watch our great club.

Eugene, you gave me the picture of the great Leonard Rossiter, saying whose Tommy Lawton! Brilliant.

Eugene Ruane
66 Posted 27/06/2015 at 15:04:21
Tony (65) - My (late) dad would infuriate me, just about to the point of rage, by constantly referring to Latchford as Â’a puddinÂ’.Â’

He would also Â’informÂ’ me that big Bob Â’couldnÂ’t hold a candleÂ’ to Bert Lockjaw or Fred Ricketts or Albert Bedbugs (or whoever).

As I said, it’s just the way of things, but none of it suggests for a second anyone is ’not a true Evertonian’ – that is simply disingenuous nonsense.

By the way I remember in that Rigsby tirade, him specifically saying players of the past would ’make mincemeat of this lot today’ and that ’all you got in my day then when you scored was a brisk handshake – these days you get covered in love-bites’.

Ray Roche
67 Posted 27/06/2015 at 15:34:53
Yes, hats off to the younger lads whoÂ’ve never seen a trophy paraded around the streets but still keep going and, no doubt, having been given loads off the shite "supporters" (Motto: "IÂ’d love to go but I canÂ’t get a ticket in this, Our Year") when they were at school. Some of us were lucky to be able to hold the high ground when we were at school, and not just the Moral High Ground.

Some years back in the Â’90s we were playing Bolton away and were, as usual, crap. A lad in front of me stood up and gave our players both barrels along the lines of "IÂ’ve spent all me dole coming here today and you fuckers donÂ’t give a shite!" I really felt for that lad and those like him that day.

Incidentally, Eugene, that Bert Lockjaw was some player...

Dave Abrahams
68 Posted 27/06/2015 at 15:55:12
Eugene (#66) just for once, shut up, your dad was right. Latchford was a puddinÂ’.
Murdo Laing
69 Posted 27/06/2015 at 16:23:10
Dave (#68). I hope you are being ironic? Otherwise, that comment is tantamount to heresy. :)

Bobby Latchford walked on water mate.

Tony Abrahams
70 Posted 27/06/2015 at 16:52:25
Told you it was brilliant Eugene. Did he not say heÂ’s god thatÂ’s all?

Murdo heÂ’s deadly serious I think. Big lazy useless bastard he usad to call him! But maybe it was because he had seen Tommy Lawton!!

And please donÂ’t get him started on Davies Hicks on haha

Tony Abrahams
71 Posted 27/06/2015 at 17:04:31
Sorry Dave. It should have said DAVIE HICKSON!
Barry Lambert
72 Posted 27/06/2015 at 19:16:47
Good luck Dunc. Pity we couldnÂ’t get that bald headed Prick to referee.What a complete c**t!
Dave Abrahams
73 Posted 27/06/2015 at 21:10:13
Murdo (69), Bob might have walked on water, he never, ever, ran on it!!!!!!!!
Jimmy Salt
74 Posted 27/06/2015 at 22:36:22
Thanks Eugene you seem to write what it takes me too long to think about, (your first post).
Phil Sammon
75 Posted 27/06/2015 at 23:51:50
I thought it was pretty clear that my comment was tongue-in-cheek. Of course younger Evertonians have valid opinions. What irks me is when Eugene suggests he has seen Â’realÂ’ legends, while I have not. Par for the course for the siteÂ’s resident pontificator.

Steve Brown – Yes I did once say ’Thank god for that result’ after we lost. It was daft, I guess, but we played awful and were on a string of bad results. I wanted Martinez out and I feared that a positive result from such a negative performance would only prolong Martinez’s tenure at a time when I think 90% of us wanted him gone.

I never want Everton to lose, but I didnÂ’t want Martinez to be able to spin the game into some sort of mental victory for himself when everyone else could see he was all over the place.

Derek Hughes
76 Posted 28/06/2015 at 00:05:37
Thanks to all those more experienced Evertonians who can quote seeing better players. I hope you all turned up to their testimonials and made sure they never ended up destitute or in need.

However, as one of todayÂ’s Evertonians who pay a lot more of our disposable possible income than those previously, I welcome the fact that our recent talisman has an opportunity to say thanks to the fans and donate money to charity. We are a desperate club in an ever-increasingly financial world.

Feel free to get off the Everton roller-coaster if the modern teams are not up to the previous standards set by the billionaire owners of their day (eg, Sir John Moores) and let those of us who live on small mercies celebrate someone who stood for our passion in darker times.
COYB - NSNO

Ross Edwards
77 Posted 28/06/2015 at 00:10:20
Well I was born in 1995, so I suppose if you ask me what Â’legendsÂ’ IÂ’ve seen, IÂ’d have to say Duncan and Tim Cahill.

Whether you can count them as legends is a matter of opinion obviously. We all have different viewpoints of what defines legendary status. Is it the memories and moments they gave us or the success they had?

Anyway, I sadly was not as fortunate as some of you who grew up in eras of success and great players like Kendall, Ball, Big Nev, Sheedy etc.

Andy Kay
78 Posted 28/06/2015 at 01:41:03
I still think, in this day and age (the Sky era), that testimonials in pre-season should be about raising funds for the ex-players foundation, not the current generation who have had a chance to earn a living from the game that older ex-pros never had the chance to do.

You only have to look a the sad case of the late Mick Buckley to realise that the are some ex Everton heroes out there doing it tough. How about an "Everton heroes" pre-season game instead. (I also think the current generation should throw in a one off donation too, as iÂ’m sure theyÂ’ll be set up for life by the time theyÂ’re 25!)

Phil Walling
79 Posted 28/06/2015 at 03:04:40
Well spoken, Andy Kay. And whatÂ’s the betting Big Dunc gets his real pay off when his mate Bill gives him the managerÂ’s job ere long!
Jack Cross
80 Posted 28/06/2015 at 03:39:57
I've never been to a testimonial, and IÂ’II never go to a testimonial. And when I hear Ferguson is a legend, I just canÂ’t believe what IÂ’m reading. He was a thug on and off the pitch, now he was a real good role model. WasnÂ’t he? You seem to forget he left us when he could have stayed. Now heÂ’s back, another job for one of the boys.
Chris Wilson
81 Posted 28/06/2015 at 04:29:22
He left us, Jack Cross? Do you mean the time when Johnson sold him behind Walter SmithÂ’s back, prompting WalterÂ’s "You go or I go" ultimatum with Johnson-who did in fact resign afterwords?

Or are you referring to the time when Moyes didnÂ’t offer him a contract extension after the 2006 season, and Dunc decided to leave us and retire rather than play anywhere else?

Or are you referring to the time when Duncan left us and moved to Majorca for five years to retire and cool off, then returned to the club, apologized to Moyes, and asked to coach the Everton youth team with then Academy Director Alan Irvine voluntarily?

Eric Myles
82 Posted 28/06/2015 at 06:07:28
Eugene #50, the irony if your post seems lost on you!

Phil was talking about you!

Dave Abrahams
83 Posted 28/06/2015 at 08:50:50
I know the thread is about Duncan, but the offshoot about young and old supporters is very good and it reminded me of my mam. She never went to a game in her life but loved Everton and would get upset when Everton lost.

IÂ’d say to her, "What are you worried about? YouÂ’ve never ever seen Everton."

SheÂ’d say, "Well, youÂ’ve never seen Dixie Dean; I have." SheÂ’d seen Dixie bring the cup up Scotland Road in 1933.

IÂ’d say, "Mam, I wasnÂ’t even born in 1933."

"DoesnÂ’t matter," sheÂ’d reply.

"Mam, there thereÂ’s no answer to that," IÂ’d say, shaking my head.

Eugene Ruane
84 Posted 28/06/2015 at 10:19:06
Phil Sammon (75) – "I thought it was pretty clear that my comment was tongue-in-cheek. Of course younger Evertonians have valid opinions. What irks me is when Eugene suggests he has seen 'real' legends, while I have not. Par for the course for the site's resident pontificator."

Ah the noble art of 3D, desperate disingenuous deflection – "It was tongue in cheek, guv, honest!" Erm... "you’re a pontificator" etc blah waffle (Jesus – took you a day to come up with that!?)

Well fine, IÂ’ll let others decide Phil.

Here is what you wrote:

"I'm afraid that, being born in the 80s, your opinions (and mine) are completely invalid. We were too young to idolise the title-winning sides and our second-rate heroes weren't fit to scrub Alan Ball's boots. Face it, you're not a true Evertonian in some people's eyes, unless you were born in a certain era."

People can decide for themselves if itÂ’s Â’pretty clearÂ’ that this was simply a smiley, tongue-in-cheek bit of jolly bantery-boo.

Or bad-tempered, frustrated, narked shite that finishes by insulting (and lying about!) Evertonians of a certain vintage.

As for your "Yes, I did once say 'Thank god for that result' after we lost. It was daft, I guess, but.."

Yeah yeah Â’but, but, but..Â’

Phil Sammon after Everton win – Link

Paul Tran
85 Posted 28/06/2015 at 11:21:38
IÂ’m not sure age has anything to do with it. Duncan Ferguson made a massive immediate impact, was brilliant for 18 months, got sent down and subsequently spent the rest of his time trading on his Â’legendÂ’ status at a time when we had a poor side.

It doesnÂ’t matter how old I am or you are, when I think of him I think of the great times, the unfulfilled promise and waste of talent.

For me, legends consistently produce the goods over a long period. He didnÂ’t.

Phil Sammon
86 Posted 28/06/2015 at 11:28:17
Eugene

That was about as pathetic a riposte as I think IÂ’ve ever seen.

It took me Â’a dayÂ’ to reply because we are in time-zones nine hours apart. Bless you thinking that IÂ’d stew on your comment for hours.

IÂ’m not reneging on my comment. I was having a pop at you for implying your legends are more valid than mine. You did say that didnÂ’t you?

I donÂ’t question that youÂ’re an Evertonian. But it does strike me that the majority of your posts seem to be tending to personal qualms you have with fellow posters rather than current EFC matters. Bit of a bore really.

Eugene Ruane
87 Posted 28/06/2015 at 11:43:09
Derek Hughes (76) - Â’Â’However, as one of today's Evertonians who pay a lot more of our disposable possible income than those previously...Â’Â’

One of "todayÂ’s Evertonians"?

Let me educate you sonny boy (joke – couldn’t resist) there are a couple of things that, generally, you don’t/can’t retire from.

The mafia is one; being an Evertonian is another, so you’re no more "one of today’s Evertonians" than I am or anyone else is – if you’re an Evertonian who hasn’t died yet, you’re "one of today’s Evertonians"

So those Â’previouslyÂ’ are paying the same as you.

Reading where this thread has gone, it is obvious (and understandable) that you and other young/younger blues are frustrated, but getting snotty with other Evertonians wonÂ’t get you anywhere.

Angry? Want to vent? Get up to Goodison and vent to the man in charge. ThatÂ’s what weÂ’d have done in (starts running for cover) my day.

Phil Walling
88 Posted 28/06/2015 at 11:58:30
My missus re-enforces your point, Eugene. She just said to me, "You move us all to bloody Cyprus because you canÂ’t stand Martinez and now spend all day reading and writing about Everton minutiae when you should be learning Greek!Â’Â’

All I could come up with as a riposte was, Â’What the hell for, they all speak in Russian now!Â’

Eugene Ruane
89 Posted 28/06/2015 at 12:23:24
Phil (86) - "I'm not reneging on my comment."

I know youÂ’re not, you would never do a thing like that.

"Yes I did once say Â’thank god for that resultÂ’ after we lost but..." blah blah.

Andy Crooks
90 Posted 28/06/2015 at 12:41:37
I tend to see as legends, players who were older than me when I watched them. That ended for me around 1990. Now itÂ’s happening with manages and I donÂ’t care for it much.

For younger Evertonians who havenÂ’t seen us win a trophy and who missed seeing some of the greatest Everton players, I would take some consolation from the fact that you also missed some of the worst.

Jack Cross
91 Posted 28/06/2015 at 14:39:46
Chris Wilson. Yes your first paragraph. Ferguson, was under contract at Everton. For him to move, disregarding the circumstances. He had to give his signature (sign) for other club and he chose to do so. Hence he left us.

Do you remember Winston Bogarde? (Chelsea 2000-2004)? High earner, Chelsea, wanted to sell him as high earner at club, but he refused to sign for anyone else so stayed at club. Only played 9 games. But wouldnÂ’t be sold by Chelsea. Maybe for different reasons. But he had to sign on the other teams dotted line and he didnÂ’t. Think it comes under the Bosman ruling.

So Ferguson could have stayed couldnÂ’t he Chris? But as I said he left us. Because he wanted to.

Dave Abrahams
93 Posted 28/06/2015 at 15:36:06
Jack. (91), yes I remember Bogarde, he sacrificed four years of his football career to earn 㿔k per week, he just used the system to set himself up, financially, for life.

I think Ferguson was a different set of circumstances; maybe he got a good signing-on fee and a wage increase when he moved to Newcastle, and I could understand that.

Bogarde just played Chelsea for mugs and they couldnÂ’t do anything about it, a bit like McMannaman with Liverpool.

Patrick Murphy
94 Posted 28/06/2015 at 15:51:35
At the time Ferguson was sold and left, the club and or Peter Johnson needed the money – nothing new there, then. So, if the club actively engages in wanting to cash in on their biggest asset, what is the player supposed to do?

I appreciate that Duncan – in the pantheon of Everton players – may not have laced the boots of many of those true legends; however, a little like the Cannonball Kid, he was a beacon of hope in dire times. And don’t forget that Dave Hickson also plied his trade across the park and I don’t hear too many voicing their concerns about his behaviour / love for all things Everton. If people don’t want to attend Duncan’s testimonial because of some misgivings about the merits of the man then they don’t have to.

For those who do wish to attend, then they are also free to support the player if they so choose. It really is that simple and I don’t understand all the angst about what is just another pre-season friendly – albeit a testimonial game where most of the money will probably end up being donated to nominated worthy charities.

Jack Cross
95 Posted 28/06/2015 at 16:06:40
Dave 93 and Patrick 94. The point IÂ’m making to Chris Wilson is, it was in FergusonÂ’s hands when he left. He didnÂ’t have to. But you know what they say: love of money is the root of all evil.
Keith Harrison
96 Posted 28/06/2015 at 16:12:51
Duncan's dad was in the Winslow the night the dirty deed was done. He was bemoaning to all and sundry that "TheyÂ’ve fucking sold my boy to Newcastle".

We were actually playing Newcastle at home – Monday night or midweek match, and Duncan didn’t play. Nor did he want to go to Newcastle, but he was cashed in. That was from the horse's dad’s mouth – and I know, cos I was there!!

Duncan was never the best player to play for us by a long chalk, and his occasional misdemeanours – with the exception of strangling Steffan Freund – used to be as frustrating as hell. He did, however, give 100% and hope to us all while on the pitch, and was really up for it in the big games.

A current captain with an attitude akin to his would propel us upwards in my opinion. I donÂ’t begrudge him his day, and those who do, need not support it.

Chris Wilson
97 Posted 28/06/2015 at 15:19:35
So itÂ’s the Newcastle thing, Jack? OK. So you felt his leaving for Newcastle was a like an act of betrayal because he signed off on it, yes?

First, I do recall Winston Bogarde. Chelsea defender who earned a rep for just pulling down a paycheck after a big money move to Chelsea via then manager Vialli (maybe). Then Ranieri got hired and didnÂ’t have much use for him. Chelsea was stupid with their finances B.A. (before Ambramovic) and were paying him an absurd amount of money which made him practically impossible to sell or loan out, since the club wanted 100 percent of his wages picked up...and that wasnÂ’t happening. The guy was 30 years old, and wanted to make one last payday. The difference between the two; Bogarde loved the money, Ferguson loved Everton.

Remember Everton was a club and a fanbase that stood by him no matter what. When he went to jail, he said that he never forgot all of the letters and support he received from Everton fans; Dunc even got a letter from a certain young, local prodigy who currently plies his trade for Manchester United and captains England from time to time. Everton gave him a home, a place to grow, support-hell, he met his wife in Liverpool. Duncan loved and still loves Everton and he wanted to finish his career with us.

Then heÂ’s told that the club is looking to sell him because of our emerging financial problems. Duncan said in an interview that he was heartbroken by this news. He was told the club needed to move him and he realized that there wasnÂ’t much that he could do about it; "If it wasnÂ’t Newcastle then it would be someone else." Duncan took the positive outlook that "If the club is in financial trouble then maybe me going is the best thing that could happen...but I am still disappointed to be leaving."

Sorry for the lengthy response...actually very few of my comments are short, but I believe in bringing information into a discussion.

Now IÂ’m pretty sure that you will disregard everything I have written; probably consider DuncanÂ’s own words as "players speak" so he wonÂ’t look bad for the fans. I get that you see his agreeing to go to Newcastle equaling a desire to leave us; and you use BogardeÂ’s refusal to leave Chelsea as exhibit A. But Bogarde wanted to "honor his contract" (make his money), and clubs refused to meet ChelseaÂ’s transfer demands to take him away. But Duncan was and is emotionally connected with Everton. He loves the fans and loves the city, and he was heartbroken that the club were getting rid of him, whereas Bogarde had no emotional contection; he just wanted his money.

Duncan felt that he had no choice, but that the move would benefit the club in the long run. The Newcastle transfer aside, you never once heard of him putting in a transfer request to leave, and never once heard of him pining for a move elsewhere. If you think that he wanted to leave so badly then those rumors would have been everywhere, even in 1998.

Darren Hind
98 Posted 28/06/2015 at 17:37:57
"There are a couple of things that, generally, you don't/cant retire from. The mafia is one; being an Evertonian is another."

Just when I thought I was out... They pulled me back in!

Keith Harrison
99 Posted 28/06/2015 at 18:40:50
Darren - once youÂ’ve been Â’madeÂ’, thereÂ’s only one way to be unmade..........................
Tony Abrahams
100 Posted 28/06/2015 at 18:37:55
Are you listening to Darren's post, Phil?
David Flanagan
101 Posted 28/06/2015 at 19:06:25
Effective way of bumping up the numbers. I never bought into the Ferguson Legend thing as he was a player who too often let the side down in performance and discipline. Good player, no more... but should have been far better. Not denying he loves the club but so overated on what he achieved.
Phil Walling
102 Posted 28/06/2015 at 19:22:02
Perhaps it means IÂ’m one of the Â’GoodfellowsÂ’, Tony!

IÂ’m a Â’madeÂ’ Evertonian for sure!

Phil Walling
103 Posted 28/06/2015 at 19:25:45
Perhaps when – not if – Duncan becomes The Godfather of Goodison, it will be my turn to ’get dragged back in’ But it won’t take a horse’s head in my bed to do, I tell you!
Michael Kenrick
104 Posted 28/06/2015 at 19:53:33
Chris Wilson, an exceptionally fair and accurate portrayal of the situation that faced Big Dunc, which was the ultimate nadir of Agent JohnsonÂ’s reign as Chairman during a very dark time for the club.

How anyone can feel anger toward Ferguson (Still?) for not refusing to sign is mind-blowing. As he realized himself, he had no choice in the matter. It was a done deal.

Dave Abrahams
105 Posted 28/06/2015 at 19:52:52
Phil, I'd be amazed if Duncan ever became manager of Everton, but you will be back. I wouldnÂ’t be surprised if you came to one or two games next season.

By the way, I like Duncan, sent him a nice letter and a book on birds when he was doing his porridge. I just donÂ’t think he has it in him to be a top manager, weÂ’ll see.

Phil Walling
106 Posted 28/06/2015 at 20:04:36
Dave, I certainly didnÂ’t say I wanted the big fella as our manager but I have a sneaky suspicion heÂ’ll be given first crack at the job when Bill thinks it time for a change!
Dave Abrahams
107 Posted 28/06/2015 at 20:12:31
Phil, I very much doubt that.
Jack Cross
108 Posted 28/06/2015 at 20:41:24
Michael Kenrick. I donÂ’t have any anger towards Ferguson. I was simply saying to Chris Wilson, that Ferguson, did have a choice not to move. By not signing for Newcastle. So how am I incorrect then?

Chris Wilson, I think exactly that! Players talk. You know the saying mate, actions speak louder than words. And in his actions he left and signed for them.

Michael Kenrick
109 Posted 28/06/2015 at 21:06:14
Thing is, Jack... yes, in literal terms, technically, he had that choice.

But, in the reality of the situation, he had no choice. Surely you can see the difference?

Or perhaps not, as you seem to believe he did have a choice – even given the situation. I think you’re wrong in that. Read what Chris wrote. It’s clear that he really had no choice. He definitely did not chose to leave us.

You not liking testimonials is fine; not thinking heÂ’s a legend... sure. But claiming he chose to leave us? Sorry, no. Not having that. He was forced to leave.

Dean Adams
110 Posted 28/06/2015 at 21:02:26
The man deserves any and all respect that he gets. Dunc was a "legend" in his own way. Argue if you must, but my opinion is personal and not up for debate. To me he was the only player that looked like he cared... and he probably did too much!!
Tony Abrahams
111 Posted 28/06/2015 at 21:09:10
IÂ’ve heard of people moving house because they hate their neighbours, but IÂ’ve never heard of a man moving to a different country because he hates the manager of Everton!

Phil... is Roberto safe?

John Crawley
112 Posted 28/06/2015 at 21:16:27
Michael and Chris are both right, Ferguson had no choice he was forced to leave. Walter Smith was so annoyed about how it was done he ultimately forced Johnson into selling.

When Kenwright took over, one of the things that he and Smith did was to put the situation right and bring Ferguson back.

John Daley
113 Posted 28/06/2015 at 21:18:00
This is what the man himself said in the press conference unveiling him as a Newcastle player:

"The move was forced on me," said an adamant Ferguson. "Everton simply didnÂ’t want my services any longer. I knew on Monday morning that Everton were inviting offers for me. I knew by Monday afternoon that it was Newcastle, and the deal was done after the match that night."

"The manager had told me on Monday morning the club was looking to sell me if the money was right, but I donÂ’t think he knew a move was actually on later that day."

"He brought me into his office and just said I was being put up for sale. He said it wasnÂ’t his idea to sell me and that it was for financial reasons."

"I was numb with shock really. It sickened me. I couldnÂ’t believe it. I am absolutely heartbroken to leave the club."

Ferguson continued: "I think everyone knows what Everton Football Club means to me. I thought I would finish my career there and I wanted to finish my career at Goodison Park. I approached the club for the new contract which I signed last season and a month ago I had been talking to my agent about asking for an extension to that deal."

"I was happy to be at Everton for life, if they wanted me. In the last couple of days my world has turned upside down. I was preparing for Everton against Charlton Athletic and now I am going to be playing for Newcastle against Wimbledon."

"It has been a traumatic time for me and my family."

Ferguson paid tribute to the Everton fans who treated him as a cult hero following his move from Glasgow Rangers in 1994, and vowed never to forget their support, especially when he was serving a jail sentence in GlasgowÂ’s Barlinnie Prison.

"I will never, ever forget the Everton fans and I mean that. They will be with me forever," he said.

"When I was in jail it was a very difficult time in my career and my life and they stuck by me. All the letters I got then I appreciated so much; they made a hell of a difference. Everything they were saying to me I will remember. They were encouraging me and saying keep your chin up. It did help."

"The support I received from the people of Liverpool was special. Everton fans will be in part of my blood because of the way they stood by me. Their loyalty to me was one of the main reasons why I love Everton so much. I will always have fond memories of the club. Getting to captain the club and wearing the Number 9 shirt after so many other great names meant a lot to me. Maybe you donÂ’t realise how much at the time, but I did genuinely love the fans and the club."

"Hopefully they will see me as someone who put his heart into the club and did his best for them."

Ferguson was sacrificed by under-fire chairman Peter Johnson, as the clubÂ’s main asset, to raise funds and ease EvertonÂ’s financial troubles and the Scottish striker insists he was left with no option but to sign for Premiership rivals Newcastle in a five-and-a-half year deal which could earn him up to a staggering 㿔,000-a-week.

In an honest admission he said he could understand being sold if the drastic action benefited Everton in the long run.

"I donÂ’t know Peter JohnsonÂ’s and Walter SmithÂ’s thinking," he said. "If the club is in financial trouble then maybe me going is the best thing that could happen. If they can bring in two or three star players as a result, then it could be the best thing in the long run. I can understand that, but I am still disappointed to be leaving."

"But how could I stand in the way? If they didnÂ’t want me there, I have got to move on. If it wasnÂ’t Newcastle, it would have been someone else. Maybe not tomorrow or next week, but sooner rather than later because the decision was made that Duncan Ferguson can go."
------------------

How anyone can view that as player Â’spinÂ’ to ensure he comes out of things smelling like roses, I donÂ’t know.

Tony Abrahams
114 Posted 28/06/2015 at 21:28:50
I remember Ferguson's last game for Everton, and although he got a decent send-off, the players all wore tee-shirts with a picture of Brian Labone during their end of season lap of honour.

This maybe took the shine off DuncanÂ’s farewell, so maybe he might get a chance to say a few words that might galvanise the crowd, getting ready for a new season?

John, with the money now involved in football, I personally think that testimonials, should only be granted to players in the lower leagues. But after reading that post, IÂ’m sure youÂ’ve put a couple of thousand on the gate!

Conor Skelly
115 Posted 29/06/2015 at 02:28:30
Duncan Ferguson signed for Everton in 94Â’. I was 9 years old. My class was all Liverpool and Man Utd. We beat both of them that year. And won the FA Cup. We started the season like dogshit remember. Ferguson was the fulcrum.

Legend? No question. My generation's Dave Hickson, as someone mentioned. To deny him that is to actually do the club a disservice. If not Duncan from the nineties, then who else?


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