Ronald Koeman blamed another poor first-half showing for his side's failure to beat Swansea City today but expressed some satisfaction with their showing after half-time.
Everton were slow out of the blocks against the Swans and found Bob Bradley's side hard to break down before falling behind to a 41st-minute penalty that meant they went into the break in arrears.
Despite that lacklustre first-half display, the Blues created their clearer openings in the opening 45 minutes but finally found the breakthrough in the 89th minute when Seamus Coleman rescued a point with an excellent headed goal.
“It's difficult,” Koeman said. “If you start the game how we did in the first half then football is very difficult and you make it very comfortable for your opponent.
“You see the difference howe we started the second half, it was a different team, a different attitude… More aggression on the pitch and then you can make it very difficult [for your opponent].
“Finally, ok we did not create a lot but we out everything on the poitch to get a better result. OK, one point is not what you expect but the way we played in the first half is not how I like to see my team.
“[I asked my players] why we always need a reaction or to be a goal down to have the reaction we showed in the second half. I agree totally with the fans when they whistled to the team at half time because we did not play how we can play football.
“But we missed a lot of aggression, we were not winning second balls but we changed everything in the second half and that's at least how we need to play at home at least.”
Reader Comments (118)
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1 Posted 19/11/2016 at 20:21:54
That today was an abject display against a team who've won ONE game and arrived with a minus 11 goal difference.
We lacked everything required to win a football match: effort, agression, creativity, intensity.
Was talking in the car on the way home after the game about how many of that starting 11 we should keep.
We came up with 6. That was totally unacceptable.
2 Posted 19/11/2016 at 20:36:35
However, quality players these days don't play for nothing, but it's European football that attracts them.
What can we offer true quality players to come here in January? If we manage to qualify for Europe next season may see some quality arrivals!
Until then same old service we have seen so far this season. Koeman must be wondering what he has bought into. Too many coasters whose legs have gone or going.
3 Posted 19/11/2016 at 20:42:15
As fans of Everton, surely we can't ignore the fact that 80% of this lot don't give a flying fuck. This is what happens when players are allowed a comfort zone by this club for years and favourites given preferential treatment.
To be successful as a team, you must have a dog-eat-dog attitude amongst players or you end up with a bunch of soft arses â€“ which is exactly what's happening.
4 Posted 19/11/2016 at 20:48:44
Grow a pair and accept responsibility. These arl men start slowly every game, but YOU keep picking them.
5 Posted 19/11/2016 at 20:53:36
Good post, I agree. Personally I wouldn't include Bolasie as one of the 6. He loses the ball too often and is far too erratic.
6 Posted 19/11/2016 at 20:54:28
I lost count of the amount of corners we wasted by managing to give their keeper catching practice with every one. We were just so wasteful and couldn't make our superiority count when it mattered. Some more creative players with a footballing brain, urgently needed methinks!
7 Posted 19/11/2016 at 20:57:39
8 Posted 19/11/2016 at 21:00:30
I would keep Bolasie, but as a squad player, until we ship out the old guard. I can't see us ever recouping what we paid for him?
There are a considerable number who I would show the exit door before him.
9 Posted 19/11/2016 at 21:06:48
On a positive note, I thought Ross was better today. I know he missed a shot but at least he looked like he cared.
10 Posted 19/11/2016 at 21:09:03
Only those who are out of contract can't be "shipped out". While they still have time on their contract, they hold all the cards.
Look at the success he made of shipping Niasse out.
Also, the only way he will not get HIS dosh, would be for him to walk away... Think that'll happen given he earns ٤m a year??
11 Posted 19/11/2016 at 21:15:22
12 Posted 19/11/2016 at 21:24:37
We also appear to have nobody any more with the ability to seriously threaten with a direct free kick. These things need to be remedied in January.
More worryingly the players appear disinterested and/or inept in their passing, running, pressing and recovery. Our defence, notwithstanding the huge efforts of Gana and, less so this season by way of his age, Barry is not getting the protection that forwards and midfielders in successful teams routinely give theirs. These things need to be remedied too.
Last season I defended this squad due to the buffoonery of Martinez but, given the achievements of RK with Southampton, where he successively got Europa places despite successive disembowellings of their squad in each of the two summers he was there, I now know where my faith is and I look forward to seeing a couple of disembowellings all of our very own.
14 Posted 19/11/2016 at 21:30:57
15 Posted 19/11/2016 at 21:56:26
16 Posted 19/11/2016 at 22:07:33
Koeman's fault is the persistence in this method; we believed BBS to be inflexible â€“ Koeman is manifestly the same.
If things are that forlorn then I'd expect to see experimentation. Somewhat bizarrely, the lack of genuine partner for Rom is baffling. Rom equals goals and â€“ despite his carthorse touch â€“ attracts 2/3 players to him. A strike partner would benefit massively from the space. But we seem allergic to getting bodies in the box.
Koeman is casting a shadow of man who cannot coach and improve his lot, but a man who shops for improvements and does little else but mouth off.
Ronnie, if yer gonna talk the talk, then it's time to walk the walk.
17 Posted 19/11/2016 at 22:22:56
They literally don't give a toss as there should have been a reaction after the Chelsea debacle but instead they don't turn up again against the bottom team.
With the next 6 games looking very difficult ,I think we're in for a toxic month with real fears for the 2nd half of the season.
18 Posted 19/11/2016 at 22:26:27
19 Posted 19/11/2016 at 22:29:02
20 Posted 19/11/2016 at 22:39:06
I think the addition of one or two of the promising youngsters would give the fans a lift, and send a message to the current underperforming first-teamers.
Each transfer window needs to see a gradual change in first team personnel until we can get in players willing to demonstrate some ambition and desire to win things with Everton.
Some of these players are now on their 3rd manager which is a sign they didn't play well enough to keep either of them in their jobs.
21 Posted 19/11/2016 at 22:41:55
It's the shambles left behind by Kenwright and Martinez that is the problem.. Martinez only made two decent signings, the rest are poor. Added to that, our best players are in decline. If the old regime was still running things, we would be relegated this season.
22 Posted 19/11/2016 at 22:42:35
"I'm making 3 changes at half-time... make sure you're not one of them"!!
23 Posted 19/11/2016 at 22:50:40
Koeman is frustrated like the fans. The false dawn in the summer is the frustration for the fans. High expectations to the same old and even calling for the manager's head.
The squad has lacked serious funding for 20 years. Sadly we are way behind teams in the top four. If anyone thinks Koeman could turn this round in one season or two seasons they are sadly going to be disappointed.
24 Posted 19/11/2016 at 22:56:39
No movement and no goalthreat from anyone except Lukaku.
That combined with the aging of some of the more experienced pros is what we see before us.
You cannot build on sand. Look at what the current top six have spent on players and new managers over the last few years and that tells you all you need to know.
We need quality additions urgently and in the meantime Koeman needs to give the selected 11 some direction and purpose â€“ otherwise, the slide down the league may be more rapid than we appreciate.
25 Posted 19/11/2016 at 22:57:05
26 Posted 19/11/2016 at 23:14:01
5) Valencia (send him back from whence he came).
6) Mirallas (I have rated him for a long time; when he gets dropped he always agrees that he could do better... even in the Martinez era).
7) Barry (sentiment dictates that he can play as long as he thinks he can; reality dictates that we retain him for coaching our young/future prospects. He deserves to be recognised for his continual commitment and contribution to the cause.
Others not listed above are also subject to scrutiny. However, we still need to put our best/fit 11, which currently dictates that some of the above will escape the axe!
Tell me I'm wrong. I await the onslaught!!
27 Posted 19/11/2016 at 23:42:45
28 Posted 19/11/2016 at 00:07:22
29 Posted 20/11/2016 at 01:06:01
Unfortunately, BBS bought lightweight players that are unable to stand up to the rigours of Premier League football on a regular basis (see Deulofeu, Cleverley, Besic) and quite a few that stunk the place out (see Niasse, McGeady, Kone, Alcaraz). By doing so he has left us up a certain creek, but I believe that Meneer Koeman can fashion some sort of paddle to get us out of it. It will just take time, a few transfer windows and a bit of backing from Moshiri.
I believe that with Walsh signed on and with some actual proper time to scout players for Everton, rather than those he had got ready for Leicester, we will be a much more exciting side in 12 months time. The key this season is getting into one of the Europa spots so we become a more attractive proposition for the type of players we want, but cannot currently get over the line â€” if this summer is anything to go by.
30 Posted 20/11/2016 at 01:58:21
Perhaps a titbit of new stadium news will get a run in the next few days.
31 Posted 20/11/2016 at 02:50:43
I got hauled over the coals by some people on here, no names no pack drill, for even daring to suggest that THIS unmotivated Everton team would struggle against Swansea. So how do you feel this morning guys and can I expect your grovelling apologies?
32 Posted 20/11/2016 at 04:43:28
You want 'grovelling apologies' after Everton draw when you said they would lose. You revel when we erm don't win. I have never once known you to say anything positive about Everton. 'Grovelling apologies' when you got it wrong.
I'm sorry, Peter, but with each repetitive post you have constructed yourself as a caricature 'Angry From Bali'. I suspect only one or two take the time and dreary effort to read your posts. Sorry. And I'm being sincere when I hope that your health is still improving mate.
33 Posted 20/11/2016 at 05:06:48
He can moan all he likes but he gets paid about 75 times more than the Prime Minister and 100 times more than a junior doctor to sort it out. Less jaw-jaw and more action please
34 Posted 20/11/2016 at 05:38:06
Davies for Cleverley
Dowell for Lennon
Calvert-Lewin for ValÃªncia.
Walsh for Mirallas.
Time to ship out the deadwood. No room for sentimentality.
Also time for Barkley and Deulofeu to either step or or ship out. I don't know what is wrong with them, but two of our most talented creative players are currently busted flushes.
35 Posted 20/11/2016 at 06:25:17
Jagielka has become our biggest liability imo. Slowed down so much this season, off the pace, unable to time a tackle in the box and reduced to constantly giving away penalties to the opposition. Funes Mori, a full and regular Argentinian international, should now be given a chance to build a working partnership with Williams who, like Jags, is getting on a bit and needs more pace beside him.
36 Posted 20/11/2016 at 06:34:57
37 Posted 20/11/2016 at 07:09:53
This team is crying out for energy, determination and tempo which Tom proved he has in abundance. I was amazed when I saw he wasn't included. I thought Koeman was willing to make big decisions, but that seems to stop at any player aged 21 or under.
38 Posted 20/11/2016 at 07:53:26
39 Posted 20/11/2016 at 08:08:49
40 Posted 20/11/2016 at 08:35:27
41 Posted 20/11/2016 at 09:10:17
42 Posted 20/11/2016 at 09:27:44
Jags will be drawing his pension before Holgate is brought in as Funes Mori will get the chance to fuck up on a regular basis.
I think the players he has inherited don't rate his methods and are beyond motivating. Putting it mildly â€“ we are in deep shit!
43 Posted 20/11/2016 at 09:41:10
How many games, even at home, have we watched as players run here and there with seemingly no idea what their aim is? Then, as we gift a sloppy goal to them we contrive to heap pressure on ourselves, getting more and more desperate in pursuit of a goal.
The bullshit of the Martinez era and "the best squad in years" nonsense has been exposed as snake-oil sales talk. This squad is bang average. I have seen enough to predict a 10th place finish. The team is miles away from the top 4 and currently 13 or 14 lobotomies away from Europa League.
Martinez lost the players, but Koeman doesn't seem to be able to get any more out of them. We are better at the back, but clueless elsewhere. So it is plain to see that these players are simply not good enough.
A huge clearout is needed. I would only keep Baines, Coleman, Williams, Funes Mori, Gana, and Bolasie. Lukaku will be gone anyway. I would give Davies a regular start.
44 Posted 20/11/2016 at 09:46:18
45 Posted 20/11/2016 at 09:47:10
Two wingers and two defensive mids leaves just Ross as our only creative outlet through the middle; he is isolated and unable to do the job, as would any number 10 having to play on his own.
I could not understand why either Lennon or Bolasie could not have been omitted and a more creative passing type player like young Davies dropped into the midfield to help Ross out.
Even if he had been on the bench, this glaringly obvious tactical error could have been put right after half an hour... But no, Koeman has the usual suspects on the bench and we ended up with like for like when the subs happened, same formation same waste of space wingers, just different names.
46 Posted 20/11/2016 at 10:07:10
Phil Walling (at 42), learn to recognise the difference between a fact, an opinion, and a statement. What you're saying is merely circumstantial insofar as Moshiri â€“ like any good businessman â€“ has to view his product (Everton Football Club) based on the facts.
Everton are struggling obviously, but this man is qualified accountant (can manage the company's books more than adequately), and his father was a senior military judge (shows he inherits good reasoning skills).
Moshiri knows this is a long-term problem but his ideas are good which will more than improve Everton from the top down, to the players on the pitch. He will likely make Everton a viable commercial attraction to sign the world class players at some point.
48 Posted 20/11/2016 at 10:54:54
I repeat that recent form indicates that, Premier League-wise, Everton are in deep shit!
49 Posted 20/11/2016 at 10:57:58
50 Posted 20/11/2016 at 11:25:17
Regarding the difference between fact and opinion, Moshiri and subsequent associates at Everton might or might not have the attributes you ascribe to him, but it must be said that some of your statements are opinion apparently based on assumptions.
I see no real evidence that PhDs in economics, or lineages involving senior military judges, will prosper Everton. It would be nice to think it would, but that's about it. Let's wait, see and hope.
51 Posted 20/11/2016 at 11:45:14
For me, the most concerning is lack of creativity â€“ our best midfield players in the last 3 years wasn't, owing to suspension, on the pitch yesterday. McCarthy has offered so little for 2+ years â€“ a mediocre championship player at best, and Barkley is hopeless â€“ has ability, but only shows interest when a corner or free kick is awarded us, and sulks off if he doesn't take it. He is not a team player and makes no attempt to help his colleagues.
Koeman has a big job on to sort this out, and January will at best be a start â€“ he tells it as it is and some of our supporters can't take it. How can any realistic fan think Anichebe is better than Lukaku (who has great strengths but aspects in need of improvement)???
52 Posted 20/11/2016 at 12:03:15
I, as always, played some music on my headphones on the bus under the River â€“ It's All Right (Curtis Mayfield); Ain't that Peculiar (Marvin Gaye); some Van: Take Me Back and Piper at The Gates â€“ trying to set myself for an afternoon of wonderment.
Mmmmm... so let's quote Dante again: “We were men once, though we've become trees... that which had pleased me once, troubled my spirit... do not be afraid; our fate Cannot be taken from us; it is a gift.â€
Or maybe: "Abandon Hope All Ye Who Enter Here".
We have to hope that Moshiri and Koeman see what we see: the need for a complete overhaul of players, attitude, management, style.
It is this belief I guess that keep us going.
Take me back, take me way way back....
Let's see what happens in January. I normally do not expect or desire much in the January window but sadly I believe we cannot go on to May with such a poor squad.
53 Posted 20/11/2016 at 12:04:11
Apart from the miracle last season of Leicester, our League is totally predictable, why, because their squads have cost tons more than any of, shall we say, the also-rans.
We didn't actually spend a bean in the summer again... how the hell are we meant to compete with Man City, Chelsea etc!
The easy option is to blame the manager; yes, managers make mistakes but that's not what's wrong with our club. The bottom line is lack of spending, which is also the reason that all the teams below us are where they are.
54 Posted 20/11/2016 at 12:07:46
Seems like we have the same inherent problems that have been there for quite a while now. I think I counted in one spell in the first half over 20 passes and all in our own half, I thought that would have been the first thing to have changed from our previous manager's tactics.
But the real problem is the same one I have been banging on about in nearly every other post I make. This team is so devoid of goalscorers it's becoming embarrassing... even with yesterday's very average display both Bolasie and Barkley missed very easy chances in the 6-yard box. Even against poor teams, you have to take your chances, and the fact that we don't is a recurring fault.
I don't know why it took Koeman so long to realize that, at home against poor sides, we don't need two sitting defensive midfield players, especially when these sides take the lead. Having got the lead, all Swansea wanted to do in the second half was to protect their lead and, given their latest results, who could blame them?
But lack of creativity and the lack of goalscorers from the front 4 will cost us dearly till this problem is solved.
I would suggest that maybe if we are going to continue playing 2 defensive midfield players then we play the front 3 a lot narrower. So Bolasie and whoever is on the other wing would actually be able to play more link up play with Lukaku. This would also allow both Baines and Coleman to bomb on down the wings, as surely the idea of 2 defensive midfield players is to let your fullbacks attack knowing they will be covered if we lose the ball.
55 Posted 20/11/2016 at 12:09:27
56 Posted 20/11/2016 at 12:12:35
"We were men once, though we've become trees" seems to have been taken to heart by most of the team, with regard to their mobility. Or maybe they've taken up this ludicrous "Mannequin Challenge" but can't wait to score a goal before attempting it.
57 Posted 20/11/2016 at 12:19:58
I am sure he already has his ideas on who he wants to keep and who to ship out. For me, the list of players to go would be a very long one. We have a squad of players who are either not good enough or won't put the effort in the the current game needs.
I agree with Fran (#34) these young players deserve their chance, they surely can't be any worse than a lot of the players who currently in the squad, and they will provide a lot more energy. Also, it would be a big boost of confidence to them and a boost to the fans who are fed up seeing the same old players recycled.
Come on, Ronnie, take a chance with a few of them. We need to find out if they are up to it and the only way to find out is to play them.
59 Posted 20/11/2016 at 12:35:41
I want Koeman to do well, of course, and I listened to him and saw hm with Lineker and it all sounds great... but, on the pitch, it's grim... seriously grim.
We can only hope that this is a work in progress and we need to wait â€“ how long, though, is the question.
In The Dark House last night, the majority of the fans said they would support Koeman if he made wholesale changes and brought in the young players. They also said â€“ although the new stadium is very exciting â€“ when are we going to see real change on the pitch?
Incredibly poor reaction to the Chelsea debacle.
61 Posted 20/11/2016 at 12:38:55
It's gonna take money, a whole lotta spending money.
It's gonna take plenty of money.
To do it right.
It's gonna take time.
A whole lot of precious time.
It's gonna take patience and time,
To do it right...
62 Posted 20/11/2016 at 12:48:45
63 Posted 20/11/2016 at 13:03:27
Man. City: 𧸗 million;
Arsenal: 𧸆 million;
Liverpool: 𧷤 million;
Chelsea: 𧷒 million;
Tottenham: 𧵼 million
Man Utd: 𧵮 million
Everton: 𧴵 million;
Leicester (to compare): 㿀 million
64 Posted 20/11/2016 at 13:15:11
I am 67 (birthday today) and hope to see it sooner rather than later â€“ but it's a strange conundrum... results/players leads to need for new stadium or new stadium leads to new players â€“ and what type of players?
65 Posted 20/11/2016 at 13:29:55
66 Posted 20/11/2016 at 13:34:15
I'm happy to be corrected on this but he said in the Jim White interview we can only spend the same as the previous season + ٥mil. I don't understand it all but I believe investing in the stadium may enable us to spend bigger in future on squad??
67 Posted 20/11/2016 at 13:41:52
68 Posted 20/11/2016 at 13:50:47
Anyway, Moshiri seemed to think the investment in the stadium would get the club in a better position. I don't know how that would work but he seems clear on what he needs to do... a proper announcement for the new stadium this side of New Year will settle me for now.
71 Posted 20/11/2016 at 13:57:46
Many Happy Returns, you have my permission to neck a bottle of red. Cheers, Blue.
73 Posted 20/11/2016 at 14:10:24
Undoubtedly Man City will not restrict themselves to buying one player! I'm confused, but Man City have spent 3 times more than us on transfers. However, are their crowd 3 times the size of Everton's, which I thought was one of the measuring factors of the Financial Fair Play rules!!
74 Posted 20/11/2016 at 14:17:54
75 Posted 20/11/2016 at 14:24:50
I concluded yesterday that Jags and Williams are stoppers. Nothing more nothing less.
76 Posted 20/11/2016 at 14:46:28
77 Posted 20/11/2016 at 14:48:50
I don't doubt Koeman; it is early in his tenure but it is long enough (imo) into the season, to see that our only victories have been against Stoke, West Brom, Boro' Sunderland and West Ham. I would be surprised if any of these teams finish in the upper half of the league.
We have lost to Bournemouth and Burnley, as well as Man City and Chelsea. I think it is fair to say that we are "bang average" and if we had beaten the bottom club, we would still be "bang average". I hope this is clear enough evidence.
Koeman needs time and money and I am hopeful he will improve us, but we need a lot of changes to be contenders for even the Europa League.
78 Posted 20/11/2016 at 14:55:05
I have a soft spot for Jags, but his time is up.
79 Posted 20/11/2016 at 14:59:58
80 Posted 20/11/2016 at 15:02:31
I lament that we continue to go into matches against relegation contenders with a single striker and two defensive midfielders, while even Moyes is sending his team out with two strikers.
I lament that we seem to have no offensive philosophy other than a player getting the ball out wide and sending crosses in, even though we only have one striker up top and available for the eventual poor cross that skies over everyone's head or is cleared out by one of the four defenders marking our one striker.
81 Posted 20/11/2016 at 15:09:08
82 Posted 20/11/2016 at 15:09:48
83 Posted 20/11/2016 at 15:15:51
He has turned us into a hoofball team, but with a lone striker, at home to the team at the bottom of the league. But patience, right... must remember that. This must be part of that progress I keep hearing about.
84 Posted 20/11/2016 at 15:16:08
The team loses points against opponents of null hierarchy. It's really frustrating. I'm tired of seeing the face of defeat in Ronald Koeman in every match and always hearing the same excuses.
85 Posted 20/11/2016 at 15:17:13
86 Posted 20/11/2016 at 15:50:57
Even with Leicester's income, which is about a 1/6 of Everton's, it's still seemingly good enough for their players to win the Premier League. If we lowered our aim, we may have attracted the right players rather than going for the best and most expensive.
87 Posted 20/11/2016 at 15:53:00
He's aware as well as anyone who contributes to these pages the majority of the shite he's inherited aren't up to Premier League standard and never will be.
This is the problem he knows he has to address but not one he's caused.
88 Posted 20/11/2016 at 16:22:07
89 Posted 20/11/2016 at 16:29:33
As Clowns, I think they are performing rather well! :-)
90 Posted 20/11/2016 at 16:30:07
Martinez and Koeman persisting with the two holding midfielders suggests either that he is worried about the vulnerability of our central defence, and/or is erring on the side of caution, for fear of losing games and losing Premier League status. So many teams are set up to avoid defeat these days. Perhaps if he had individuals he could trust to do both the defensive and offensive duties, we would see a different approach.
Could the regular sight of us falling behind in games be due to this defensive set-up? Do we only invite teams on to us by doing this? It was clear yesterday, when we really went for it in the last 10 minutes, that we suddenly looked a different outfit.
91 Posted 20/11/2016 at 16:30:16
92 Posted 20/11/2016 at 16:41:57
Of course it doesn't help when the Red Shite are doing well.
We need major investment on the playing front.
93 Posted 20/11/2016 at 17:07:55
I cannot accept that he picked our best eleven yesterday. He has been fair to the old hands, they have had a run in the side but they are not good enough. He has had enough time to see what is available. We need a lift, we need our coach to find his best team soon. We need our players to be bold.
Let's have no more lamentable shite from, apparently, hurt players who know we need better. Shut the fuck up, respect the club and supporters, and try to show that you actually, really care. From coach to squad â€“ just earn your money.
94 Posted 20/11/2016 at 17:33:41
Conte got nowhere in his first few games, went to 3-4-3 and changed the picture. They concede more but score more to win more often.
Kopp introduced a style last season that his squad couldn't deliver on. He improved fitness and tweaked the squad and hey presto.
Conte is delivering what players of that calibre should. Klopp is delivering more.
Mourinho is getting no more and no less than the squad is capable of.
Koeman is delivering less than the sum of the squad parts.
95 Posted 20/11/2016 at 19:21:18
How do Chelsea concede more now they've changed? They've just gone 6 games (all wins) without conceding any!!
96 Posted 20/11/2016 at 19:59:34
97 Posted 20/11/2016 at 20:40:28
You praise Klopp but don't recognise he's been in charge of their asylum for over a year. Strange.
Finally you state that Chelsea concede more since they changed to 3-4-3. Wrong. They've yet to concede once. Apart from that, you hit your thumb on the head!
98 Posted 20/11/2016 at 21:49:46
Conte, Mourinho and Koeman all joined their clubs at the same point. Conte has much the better squad and, after failing to bring the best out of them, he changed things around. He is now getting more from them than most would have expected. Who would have bought Luis for example? (Apologies, I missed out the "might" in the comment about conceding.)
Mourinho did spend a lot of cash, but given the quality of his defenders and defensive midfield they are about where they should be.
Personally, I believe that we have a better squad than Man Utd. Not much in it but there you have it. We are underperforming in these comparisons, in my view.
Re Kopp, he inherited a poorly (maybe under-) performing) squad and made a difference from the outset. I doubt that anyone watching football regularly would have had them down as title challengers given the form of the Firmino of 18 months ago, the failure of Continuo at the same time to last the pace for more than 60 minutes, and the lamentable form and failure to fit of Lallana. Move to this season and I am still astonished at the performances he is getting out of Milner at left back and of Henderson, a player I considered to be sub-James McCarthy in quality.
Compared to Koeman, he has done, and he is doing a better job of management.
99 Posted 20/11/2016 at 21:53:29
IF we were to have beaten Swansea... Yes, but we didn't, did we? And didn't even look likely to, did we?
Phil has expressed a valid opinion. And I couldn't agree more with him. And as Stan says, your post is based on assumption.
Well I'll assume something, shall I: We won't win a game in December See how you feel about Moshiri's appointment then.
101 Posted 20/11/2016 at 21:57:12
103 Posted 20/11/2016 at 22:28:06
None of this squad is doing themselves any favours with piss poor performances. Give Koeman 12 months and I bet anyone this team WILL be challenging top 4 places.
104 Posted 20/11/2016 at 23:18:37
105 Posted 20/11/2016 at 00:06:15
Clever of you to spot we had a player on the pitch who wasn't at his best. He's played his first game in months, but you single him out for criticism. I suppose he gave the penalty away or he was responsible for the abject surrender at Stamford Bridge? I really find this 'targetting' a player just because you don't like him, a little petty; McCarthy, the new Osman?
106 Posted 21/11/2016 at 00:25:41
We was shocking for 80 minutes, not 45.
At home vs second bottom does not require a formation containing 1 forward and 2 defensive mids, simples.
107 Posted 21/11/2016 at 00:42:02
Yes, you're right â€“ I singled James out. I watched a player who doesn't want to receive the ball from defence â€“ as soon as he gets possession, it goes square or back. He dos not like receiving the ball when he puts his arm out, saying "Don't give it to me".
James McCarthy is a great stand-alone defensive midfielder, winning the ball then giving it to pressing players going forward. His work rate and tackling is second to none but he ain't a creative midfielder. He's a stand-alone defensive midfielder, in which he is very good.
108 Posted 21/11/2016 at 10:48:57
It has taken Klopp time. When he first took over players could not adapt to his pressing style, but he said that they would eventually, because "they are young professional footballers". Well, they seem to have done, eventually.
Compare us, could be similar, it's early days, the team was unfit at the start of the season, and Koeman is working them on the pressing style (like Klopp did). Our performances are bad, but so were Liverpool's. They were all over the place in some games, were booed off by their own supporters.
I'm not saying the situations are identical, just that there are similarities, which tell me to be patient. Not infinitely patient, just patient. This squad CAN perform better, because they are young professional footballers.
Koeman took over a sick squad (apparently), so will need time. I will be expecting better performances as the season progresses, because the players should be able to adapt to his style. If they won't, then that's a problem seemingly beyond his control.
109 Posted 21/11/2016 at 11:46:07
Mirallas: Lazy, has one good game in 4
Barkley: Inconsistent, overrated, no football brain, time to move on
McCarthy: Clueless, looks lost, never rated him at Wigan either
Robles: Inconsistent, wants to punch every ball, not good enough
Funes Mori: Good defender, but not designed to defend like Koeman wants
Cleverley: Goes missing, loses the ball regularly, inconsistent
Besic: Nice guy but presence not big enough. Always injured
Lennon: Played well until he got a contract, now average at best
Kone: I don't really need to argue this one
Deulofeu: Given too many chances by too man managers. Average
This whole team still carries the Martinez stench and it's going to take 2-3 more transfer windows to ween that out.
And just for the record, I was never happy with Koeman's appointment in the first place. He has won 1 trophy (with Valencia, Copa Del Rey) in a 15-year managerial career, with Everton now being his 7th club.
110 Posted 21/11/2016 at 12:01:22
I agree that Koeman will need time, and yes Klopp had a whole season to asses his players and get them playing a high-tempo game.
But looking at both managers they remind me of the relationship that Catterick and Shankly had with their teams. Catterick was aloof from his players and a strict disciplinarian, while Shankly although also being strict he loved his players and they loved him.
Now I don't think I ever heard any players who played under Catterick say they loved playing for him. Yet nearly all of Shankly's players said they loved playing for him.
Koeman seems a little aloof from his players and, while I am sure they have great respect for him, he doesn't seem to have the same affection as Klopp does with his players. Yes, you have to let the players know who's boss, but it can't all be stick sometimes â€“ the carrot can be just as effective.
111 Posted 21/11/2016 at 13:00:25
112 Posted 21/11/2016 at 13:22:05
I agree with all those players, but reluctantly regarding Barkley. I agree his footballing brain is inconsistent, but I just think a lot of the younger fans love him and the younger fans are important long term. Plus, he might get wiser with age.
It may take 2 full years to get rid of the majority of the players mentioned, but get rid we must. They stink of a loser mentality...
113 Posted 21/11/2016 at 13:34:21
During those seven years, Peter Robinson, Liverpool's secretary, said he regularly received letters from irate Liverpool fans asking him to replace Shankly, or as Harry Catterick called him "Rob Roy". He also at various times threatened to resign but was pacified by the then chairman to stay on.
His bluff was eventually called in the Summer of 1974, I think, when he offered his resignation and it was accepted. He was replaced by Bob Paisley and many Liverpool fans will tell you they preferred him to Shankly.
114 Posted 21/11/2016 at 14:20:35
115 Posted 21/11/2016 at 14:36:05
Jagielka and Deulofeu are failures, Lennon and Cleverley also â€“ all should be given their P45s and some pace and aggression brought in. I'm sick of these players letting us and the manager down.
116 Posted 21/11/2016 at 14:49:00
You are right about Shankly not winning a trophy for 7 years but his record was far superior to Cattericks. Shankly won the league 3 times the FA Cup 2 and the UEFA Cup 1.
Catterick won the league on 2 occasions and the FA Cup 1.
Then when you consider that Catterick had the biggest warchest for transfers than any British club at that time. Compare that to Shankly who had a pittance to spend. I agree about Paisley being a great manager but Shankly laid down the foundation.
Regarding Shankly having his bluff called and the board accepting his resignation. Well I heard a different set of events by somebody who was there at the time. I heard that Shankly was told that the club had agreed to sign a player without checking with him to see if he wanted the player. So on hearing the player was arriving the following day, he told the board that signing the player would be his last act for the club. He resigned a few days after signing the player, so for me a very principled man â€“ not a bluff merchant.
117 Posted 21/11/2016 at 15:00:34
I think the highest accolade you can give Shankly is by asking the average kopite who managed the club before him. Not many come up with an answer!
118 Posted 21/11/2016 at 15:31:46
Liverpool was Shankly's fourth club â€“ he had done nothing with any of the previous three, in fact he was an assistant manager at Huddersfield.
Harry Catterick had put Crewe Alexander on a good footing financially and had built Sheffield Wednesday into a very good team; they finished runners-up to possibly one of the greatest teams since the war, Spurs. He also got Everton into the European Cup and we were drawn against the eventual winners, Inter Milan, losing by one goal over two legs.
Brian, you like Shankly. I'm a bit biased: I couldn't stand the man, with his childish rants against Everton, a team he turned to after his own club had turned their backs on him.
Finally, if he was a man of principle, why didn't he resign before he signed Kennedy, if he didn't want him? I think he stayed on hoping that Liverpool would ask him to stay. John Smith was a much stronger chairman than T V Williams and accepted his resignation.
To be honest, nobody really knows why he resigned but I'm sticking to my version. Harry Catterick was every bit as good as "Fish and Chips" and was his own man.
119 Posted 21/11/2016 at 16:11:38
Unfortunately neither Shankly nor Catterick were treated as well as they might have been by their respective clubs.
120 Posted 21/11/2016 at 16:12:39
I understand that T V Williams was my maternal great uncle, and responsible for recruiting Shankly. But I became an Evertonian because we were just superior. And because my dad took me to see Everton v Aston Villa in 1961, with Alex Young making an impression on a 7-year-old.
121 Posted 21/11/2016 at 16:42:51
I'm also not sure it is fair to say that Catterick had the largest war-chest of any manager, as though we were the Man City of the time; Alan Ball was the only really 'marquee' signing in the sense of a player with a national and international pedigree whom every top club coveted.
The fact is that Arsenal and Liverpool spent big on Peter Marinello and Tony Hateley, it was just unfortunate that they were crap and have been lost to history. Man U were also big spenders as well (Willie Morgan cost them as much as Alan Ball cost us).
So while I agree that Shankly's record is better than Catterick's, it was not 'far superior'.
122 Posted 21/11/2016 at 18:50:50
123 Posted 21/11/2016 at 19:49:00
124 Posted 21/11/2016 at 23:51:18
Jagielka has been very poor for a long time now... never wins a header and is a liability in the penalty area. Barkley is a waste of time and too slow with no brains, Cleverley is just not good enough and Gibson is too slow if ever he is fit enough to play, as is McCarthy who is always unfit. Lukaku has poor ball control, and the rest are not worth talking about.
Will the transfer window make any difference?... It will depend who is available...and who Billy the Blue wants to bring in. (What a Manager!!!)
125 Posted 22/11/2016 at 15:13:26
126 Posted 22/11/2016 at 15:14:45
My father called him Fish and Chips. (Never out of the paper?)
As for Koeman, it is madness to want him out after 12 league games. These knee-jerk reactions will see a club going down the same route as Leeds, Forest etc. All clubs that changed their manager once every year.
To those advocating we get rid, a simple question: Who would you bring in?
127 Posted 22/11/2016 at 18:18:40
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