Everton pick up Martina on a free

Monday 17 July 2017  230 Comments  [Jump to last]

Sean M. Haffey/Getty Images
Everton have confirmed the signing of defender Cuco Martina whose Southampton contract expired this summer.

The 27-year-old, who was brought by Ronald Koeman to St Mary's Stadium, has signed a three-year deal with the Blues.

Able to play at right full back or centre-half, the Curaçao international will add depth and versatility to the back line as Everton look ahead to what they hope will be an extended European campaign alongside their domestic commitments.

“Cuco Martina is an experienced player who can perform in different positions at the back, which is important,” Koeman told evertonfc.com.

“It's also important, with the number of games we will face in the coming campaign, that we have strength and competition in the squad.

“I brought the player to Southampton, so I know what he can do for us here and this is why I've now brought him to Everton. He is a player who will strengthen our squad and be able to play in different positions when that's needed, too.”

Martina, who joined the first-team squad that flew to the Netherlands this week, started his career at Feyenoord and played in Holland under assistant manager Erwin Koeman at RKC Waalwijk before moving on the FC Twente.

He told the official site about how he excited he is to join a big club and how he hopes to help the Blues this season.

“Everton is a big club with big ambitions and I'm really looking forward to joining this group of players and the manager as we try to step forward next season,” Martina said.

“Obviously, I know the manager from my time at Southampton, so I know what he wants and he knows what I can do.

“Everton supporters are really passionate about their Club and everyone's excited about where the Club is aiming. You can see this is a club that wants to achieve something and the players we are bringing certainly show this.  

Reader Comments (230)

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Jim Knightley
1 Posted 17/07/2017 at 17:05:00
Martina confirmed. It gives an extra option in a weak spot. I would have preferred a shorter deal but Koeman clearly rates him. No shame being back-up for Soares either.
Dave Abrahams
2 Posted 17/07/2017 at 17:07:49
So we have just signed Martina from Southampton. I haven't seen him, I hope he is okay, his contract is for three years.
Mark Tanton
3 Posted 17/07/2017 at 17:07:56
Pleased with this looks big, strong and athletic. Might be some much needed competition for Leighton.
Sam Hoare
4 Posted 17/07/2017 at 17:09:11
Martina, the new Alcaraz? Bit of a shame for Jonjoe Kenny...
Damian Wilde
5 Posted 17/07/2017 at 17:11:09
Mark, he's not a left back, he's a right back.
Steve Ferns
6 Posted 17/07/2017 at 17:11:54
He's a right sided defender, Mark. He plays mainly right back or right side of a back three. Basically a mason holgate.

I heard this was a done deal in April. I wonder why it's only been confirmed now?

Question is, is he back up for Coleman or Kenny. That is will he start the season or will Kenny. I hope the answer is he's here as back up to Kenny.

In any event, we need more experience than a couple of teenagers at right back (Holgate and Kenny), and he brings that. I just hope it doesn't stunt their development.

On a free though, can't complain. It's a body and it was needed.

Chris James
7 Posted 17/07/2017 at 17:12:21
Phew that's a relief, thought we might go a day without a new signing!

More of a squad player than a first team starter probably, but important to fill the gaps.

Fingers crossed for forwards (Giroud, Dembele) and creative mid this week (Siggy/Mahrez)!

Richard Humphrey
8 Posted 17/07/2017 at 17:13:21
Welcome, Cuco!
David Barks
9 Posted 17/07/2017 at 17:13:56
Worthless signing. Not good enough for Southampton reserves.
Mark Tanton
10 Posted 17/07/2017 at 17:14:31
Oh okay, I stand corrected. I thought he could play anywhere across the back but specifically left-back. Shows what I know.
Mike Gaynes
11 Posted 17/07/2017 at 17:18:31
David, I had a bet with myself whether you or James Watt would be the first in with some comment about how he's shite or gash or worthless. You win.

Koeman managed him for two seasons. Knows him way better than any of us. If he thinks this guy is worth taking a chance on a free, I'll take his word for it.

Frank Wade
12 Posted 17/07/2017 at 17:18:36
Agree David, bad news for Jonjoe Kenny as well.
Michael Kenrick
13 Posted 17/07/2017 at 17:18:48
I was really looking forward to Kenny stepping up but now I fear the worst. This lad will be first choice at right-back in Koeman's mind – can there be any doubt? At least until Seamus is fully fit and marauding forward again...
Daniel Lawrence
14 Posted 17/07/2017 at 17:20:20
Three year contract!!!
Roger Sunde
15 Posted 17/07/2017 at 17:20:41
Just hope Coleman makes a speedy recovery and is back to his old self fast.
Mike Gaynes
17 Posted 17/07/2017 at 17:21:15
Michael, yes, lots of doubt.

Think Koeman will give the position to whoever earns it by looking best in the preseason.

Steve Ferns
18 Posted 17/07/2017 at 17:22:49
I think it needs to be made clear that Martina was primarily a right back for Southampton. Koeman signed him for there. Then he forced his way into the side from being a backup player, and the fact that Koeman has brought him means he clearly rates him.

The question I pose is who is he back-up for? Coleman or Kenny? If Kenny, then it makes sense. He's an experienced pro who can help the youngster out. He can also play the tougher games where we need more defensive solidity. If coleman, then it is at Kenny's expense, and that upsets me, as I would like to the see Young Kenny be given a run in the side.

I first heard of this in April, and was told that the transfer was a done deal. He was out of contract and so Everton could agree a pre-contract, which was supposedly done. It must not have been, though, as it would have been confirmed on 1st July. So I wonder that has delayed this transfer?

For me, this transfer is okay if he is a body, to cover right back, and centre back, and to be another body in what will be a tough season if we do well in all competitions, and in a position where we lack cover. However, if he is to play until Coleman gets back, then it is very underwhelming, and is not the message to send to our kids, particularly after the season Kenny has had. At Kenny's age, he must be playing first team football this season if he is to make it.

John Audsley
19 Posted 17/07/2017 at 17:24:03
Kenny needs to play, I hope this bloke is a bench warmer. Who know's we may be depending on him by December.
Barry Pearce
20 Posted 17/07/2017 at 17:24:23
Just hope he's Jonjoe's cover.

I feel Jonjoe is ready to take the step up.

Steve Ferns
21 Posted 17/07/2017 at 17:28:35
On reflection, three-year contract doesn't sound like a bit part third choice right back.

I think Koeman has enough credit in the bank to give him the benefit of the doubt on a player he knows well.

Colin Glassar
22 Posted 17/07/2017 at 17:29:05
Kenny for me, this fella can go Cuco off!!
Brian Keating
23 Posted 17/07/2017 at 17:30:46
I know more about football than Ronald Koeman. I even know more about football players that used to play for Ronald Koeman. This fella is shit.


It never fails to amaze me at some of the prize numptys on here who question Koeman.

Mike Gaynes
24 Posted 17/07/2017 at 17:32:48
Two friendlies this week, then the Europa League home-and-home next week. Plenty of playing time for everybody.
David Barks
25 Posted 17/07/2017 at 17:33:48
The funniest part of the player stating why he "chose" Everton, about the ambition of the club. He didn't choose anything. He was released by Southampton after being declared not good enough to even be a reserve there and for some reason we're the club that has picked him up on a free. Not exactly as if there was a long line of top clubs after him and we won.

This honestly does have me worried because, as much as we were all excited about the spending to start the window, we've actually just spent the Lukaku money and replaced wages of those we released. It's interesting that now that Lukaku has gone, the signing we've made is a Southampton reserves cast off.

We still haven't strengthened in attack. It's looking a lot like we were banking on Barkley being sold for £40-50 million, but apparently there isn't a market for him. No clubs seem to be bothered about Barkley.

So we go on a spending spree with the expected funds from Lukaku, and now we're bringing in a free transfer from a small club? In any case, this player is nowhere near the quality of player we should be signing.

John Hammond
27 Posted 17/07/2017 at 17:34:31
A defender who can play in a couple of positions, has played for the manager before and is free. Sure, why not.

As above, I'd like to see Kenny given a chance and Martina there primarily as cover.

Iain Love
28 Posted 17/07/2017 at 17:36:40
I think Martina was an option while Koeman had a closer look at Kenny .
George Cumiskey
29 Posted 17/07/2017 at 17:37:26
If I were Kenny I would ask to be loaned out to a championship club, because it looks like Koeman isn't going to give him much playing time as he has Holgate ahead of him as well. How deflated he must be feeling now.
Steve Ferns
30 Posted 17/07/2017 at 17:37:34
David (#25), he has to say stuff like that.

He can't come in and say something like this:

"Well this was the only offer I have. I'm only third choice, so I won't play, which is great because I have done sod all training, and can't be arsed, as all I am thinking about is collecting my pay-cheque for the next three weeks and watching all the games from the stands".

Chris Green
31 Posted 17/07/2017 at 17:38:03
I love the negativity. We have two teenagers as our right fullback position for the year. Super Seamus could be out until March, this guy is cover. If we didn't buy someone and Kenny/Holgate got injured I could only imagine the uproar.

He played for both Koeman's before, they know and trust him. Think that's worth more than the football managers players on here.

Give him a chance eh?

Derek Knox
32 Posted 17/07/2017 at 17:39:20
Don't have too much of a problem with this free transfer/signing, we will need the extra players, if we are to be involved in all competitions.

Just hope the likes of Jonjoe and Mason, still get involvement, should do, for the reasons I mentioned before.

Welcome Cuco!

Jon Withey
33 Posted 17/07/2017 at 17:43:43
Until Coleman is back then we have Kenny, Cuco and Holgate as possible right-backs then – Cuco and Holgate can also fill in at right centre-back. Doesn't seem so bad.

That said, I was hoping for a left-back who could fill in as a left-sided centre-back!

David Barks
34 Posted 17/07/2017 at 17:44:35
Sorry, if he's not good enough for Spurs, Man City, Chelsea, Man Utd, Arsenal or Liverpool, then he's not good enough for Everton. It really can and should be that simple.
Colin Grierson
35 Posted 17/07/2017 at 17:45:09
One man's rubbish is another man's...

We all know the saying. I welcome the lad. Koeman signed him and someone else decided he wasn't good enough for Southampton after Koeman had left. Where did they finish again?

Like most blues, I'd like to see Kenny get a run in the first team but I'm not the manager so I'll just have to trust the fella who is! Our boss is highly regarded and has won the odd medal in his career. He might just know a player when he sees one (especially a defender).

It just makes me wonder whether half of TW posters regularly argue with their General Practioner about the diagnosis they're given and what medication you should take. I blame Google!

Chris Williams
36 Posted 17/07/2017 at 17:45:45
It's up to Kenny now to impress in the pre-season games and training.

Holgate shouldn't be let near the right back position unless there's an emergency. He was poor and was substituted at end of last season, also less than impressive in that unimpressive England U21 team.

He's clearly not a fullback and Koeman has seen that, hence Martina I guess, nor is he good enough for Spurs, Liverpool etc etc at right back.

Aidan Baker
37 Posted 17/07/2017 at 17:46:46
I notice that Martina has taken the place of Pennington on the plane to Holland.

Apart from Barkley, Joe Williams is also missing and neither were on the U23 list heading to Spain, so I would imagine that they will be the next two players sent out on loan.

Hull have already expressed an interest in Pennington.

Steve Woods
38 Posted 17/07/2017 at 17:47:21
Like others, I'm hoping that this fella is cover for Kenny should Jonhjoe not make the step up immediately and slot in seamlessly or that Jonjoe is in danger of getting over played (Premier League, Europa League, Cup games). Koeman should know what he has to offer so its probably a no-brainer.
Gordon Roberts
39 Posted 17/07/2017 at 17:47:41
If Kenny is as good as people on this thread make him out to be, he will be first choice until Seamus returns. Big test of character for Jonjoe, he now has the platform to impress.
David McMullen
40 Posted 17/07/2017 at 17:47:57
Important squad signing sounds like can play anywhere along the back line so not necessarily just a right back. Surely people can't compare him to Martinez bringing in Alcaraz... tut tut – Koeman issurely a better judge!
John Pierce
41 Posted 17/07/2017 at 17:56:40
Koeman building a squad not a team, almost impressed.

Player there to add competition and support two young players through the up & down form young players tend to go through.

I hope Holgate is removed from the right back frame altogether and is added to the centre-back battery.

Martina, Kenny and Coleman is enough to cover this area.

Still a left-back, centre-back and two attacking players short for me.

David Johnson
42 Posted 17/07/2017 at 18:04:15
What a fuckin' welcome – and anyone who thinks we can go into a campaign with just Kenny and Holgate needs their bumps feeling.
Mike Gaynes
43 Posted 17/07/2017 at 18:06:31
John (#41), definitely with you on Holgate. It's past due for him to be given a clear chance in his natural position, and with Mori out we will need him as one of our 4 centre-backs. If he's as good as I think he is, we don't need to sign another centre-back until either Williams or Jags departs next summer.

And if Martina's signing means Holgate doesn't have to waste any more time at right-back, I'm all for it.

Jay Wood
44 Posted 17/07/2017 at 18:06:59
Whilst clearly the least exciting of the first-team squad signings this summer, you have to back the manager's judgement and reasoning on this one, even though a 3-year deal seems generous.

Koeman knows, signed, selected, played and (now) signed again the player. Seamus is highly unlikely to see any real action before 2018. The only right backs on the books are makeshift centre-backs, or young 'uns with very little exposure to the Premier League or European competition.

He can also cover at centre back, where - although we have signed Keane – we have a couple of over-30s, some more (largely) untried young 'uns and (currently) a crocked Argentinian (who many on TW don't rate).

That suggests to me he is a cheap squad back-up player who, depending on game intensity on the calendar, injuries and form (his own and others) may or may not see lots of game time.

I refuse to believe that the coaching staff at Everton are blind to the absolute diamond they have at right back at the club already, Jonjoe Kenny.

Whilst personally hoping Coleman's injury would give Jonjoe a chance for a good run in the first team, I would accept it if the manager and coaching staff have a different career development mapped out for him this season in preparation ahead of promoting him to the first team and we see him sent out on loan to ensure regular league football.

Dave Southword
45 Posted 17/07/2017 at 18:12:51
It's up to Kenny how much he plays next year, if he's part of our squad and not on loan.

If youngsters are good enough then they take their chance, which might come from an injury, and make themselves undroppable. Tom is the example they should follow. Youngsters should earn their place, so if Martina is rubbish like the experts on here claim he is then Kenny has every opportunity.

Will Mabon
46 Posted 17/07/2017 at 18:13:16
Of course Seamus is out for some time; of course we need cover, we have a heavy schedule... but this is the answer? Very poor for an aspirational club, we're no longer in a position of having to take this kind of player. How many other clubs in the top half of the table would make this signing?

If he's a temporary fill-in based on Koeman's personal knowledge of him, then why a three-year contract?

Alex Parr
47 Posted 17/07/2017 at 18:15:31
Desperate to see Jonjoe Kenny make it this season. I hope Cuco is not ahead of him in the stakes for a first team place.
David Pearl
48 Posted 17/07/2017 at 18:19:41
Steve Ferns, yeah we need a bit more honesty in football.

"I have no other options, and the fools have given me a 3-year deal. I'd prefer to play but that doesn't bother me too much as I'm getting paid a fortune. Yeeeeehaaaawwww!!!"

Fran Mitchell
49 Posted 17/07/2017 at 18:20:36
Nothing Koeman said suggests he views him as someone who will play regularly, so the 'bad news for Kenny' seems incorrect.

Kenny, I am sure, will be No 1 right back at start of season. But with European competition, injury to Funes Mori and with Galloway and Browning loaned out, Koeman has gone for a cheap option to bulk the squad.

Nothing more, nothing less.

Phil Head
50 Posted 17/07/2017 at 18:22:02
Cuco Martina or Mason Holgate as a season-long replacement for Seamus Coleman is not good management, it's a fucking disgrace. Quality not Quantity is how you improve a football team – free or cheap bargains aren't the answer.

When you're trying to replace the likes of Seamus Coleman and Romelu Lukaku. Unfortunately, this all stinks of inevitable failure, and I'll quite happily eat my words if we're even in the top half come November time.

Kevin Rowlands
51 Posted 17/07/2017 at 18:26:01
Looks like he can play left back to me...

Will Mabon
52 Posted 17/07/2017 at 18:28:31
Dave @ 45, I don't claim to be an expert on Martina (can't speak for others). Looking at recent evidence though – not wanted at all at Southampton, Saints fans think he's useless – makes us reasonably current and informed.

Since the takeover of the club, a benefit perhaps moreso than the potential for a tilt at big signings, is the freedom from journeymen low-quality cast-off players.

We don't need to go cheap or free like this. I also can't think he has any use as a threat or motivator for Kenny or others. Niasse was 50 times more productive last season.

Ray Robinson
53 Posted 17/07/2017 at 18:30:50
David (#9). I suppose the same could have been said of Sheedy and Harper in the 80s? And #25 how, do you know that he didn't have other offers?

He may well turn out to be utterly useless but I like the way make easy assumptions. Here's another one, I assume you've never seen the lad play?

I'll bow to Koeman's judgement for the time being.

Brian Williams
54 Posted 17/07/2017 at 18:31:45
Oh no, Oh shit we've signed someone on a free the whole window's gone to ratshit (coz there's only hours left isn't there?) and the guys, who up until today have done what most Evertonians would class as excellent business, haven't now got a clue!!

Koeman out, Walsh out, everybody ouuuuuut!!

Ahhh that's better, aaaand breathe.

Martin Mason
56 Posted 17/07/2017 at 18:33:02
First look I'd say that he isn't the class needed for a club like us and the ambition we have. But I remember many times over the years when players like this have proved to be critical parts of our success.

He's a back up squad player at a time we'll need such players if we want to do well in Europe and compete on other fronts for the first time in years because of our previous lack of depth.

Matt Muzi
57 Posted 17/07/2017 at 18:36:11
No one knows how Coleman's injury is going to affect him or if he will suffer any complications. That leaves us with Holgate & Kenny as the only recognised right backs & I have always been of the opinion Holgate should be playing centre halve.

Imagine if we hadn't signed him & Kenny or Holgate got injured & Coleman isn't recovered. Yeah we all want to see Kenny given a go, but we have to bear in mind he is unproven at Premier League level. This guy would appear to be happy being a squad player & gives us another option.

Tony Everan
58 Posted 17/07/2017 at 18:41:28
It's a long hard season, we need cover and a bigger squad to cope.

Cuco may make the position his own if he shows full commitment and contributes to success.

Anyway, welcome Cuco!

Jeff Armstrong
59 Posted 17/07/2017 at 18:44:39
Anyone know if Sandro has gone on this trip to Holland?
Chris James
60 Posted 17/07/2017 at 18:46:31
What on earth is David (#25)talking about?

"The funniest part of the player stating why he "chose" Everton, about the ambition of the club. He didn't choose anything. He was released by Southampton after being declared not good enough to even be a reserve there and for some reason we're the club that has picked him up on a free. Not exactly as if there was a long line of top clubs after him and we won."

1. How could you possibly know what interest there is in him? Are you his agent?

2. What on earth would you prefer he say? "I was sat the centre and saw this bloke I recognised with a Blue shirt and said 'gizza job'

"It's interesting that now that Lukaku has gone, the signing we've made is a Southampton reserves cast off."

No, this is simply the 'first' signing that has got over the line since Lukaku closed, second if you count Rooney as happening at a similar time.

We are quite evidently making serious bids for other players as we have been doing pretty much every day since the window opened - unless you think a £40M offer for Sigurdsson isn't real (curious that Swansea would go to the trouble of rejecting it if so).

"We still haven't strengthened in attack."

Well, apart from buying Sandro and Rooney plus some hot youth prospects and apparently registering interest in about six other 'target-man' strikers including Giroud and a host of creative midfield players.

"It's looking a lot like we were banking on Barkley being sold for £40-50 million, but apparently there isn't a market for him. No clubs seem to be bothered about Barkley."

There's literally nothing to substantiate this at all, the only place the world looks like this is through your presumably perpetually half-empty glasses.

Firstly I'd say that it does sound like efforts have still been going on to get him to sign (including a Rooney 'plea').

Secondly, we obviously have no absolute idea how much interest there is. Sure there's less paper-talk compared to the likes of Sigurdsson and Mahrez and it does seem that Spurs are most interested, but then again we slapped a £50M price tag on a player who has just one year left on his contract so potential bidders will doubtless be more inclined to wait. How much 'interest' have you read about from Premier League teams for Aguero and Costa? Presumably no teams are interested in them either?

"So we go on a spending spree with the expected funds from Lukaku, and now we're bringing in a free transfer from a small club?"

What is the issue here? What exactly are you wanting/expecting? The club had spent £80-90M upfront before Lukaku moved anywhere on players that were identified as targets and about whom we all seem pretty chuffed.

Yes, Lukaku went for big money but do you not think the club would've preferred to keep Rom? It's not like he's been forced out or sold off easily was it? What choice was there?

More to the point, both before and since Rom's sale, we've been consistently linked with players with big fees and there is absolutely nothing to suggest that the spending has stopped. What is happening is that we're getting into more 'chewy' territory where certain departures are going to be harder to engineer (eg, Swansea digging their heels in) or are dependent on other moves (eg, Arsenal wanting to see what happens with Sanchez before deciding on other forward departures).

This is especially true in forward positions. Every single Premier League team (and most in Europe) want a proven 20-goal a season striker. Last season though only 5 players hit that mark (one of whom we've reluctantly just lost, all the rest are at clubs offering Champions League football and who were above us in the league).

It kind of feels like you're moaning because despite 6 first teamers and a similar number of young prospects arriving at the club by mid July, we're not buying enough players. Although this presumably can't be your point as you then immediately switch to decrying someone we have just bought...

"In any case, this player is nowhere near the quality of player we should be signing."

Personally I don't know the player at all so I can't inform you of his quality, even if I had seen him play a couple of times I suspect my viewpoint would be somewhat less informed than that of our manager, especially as he brought the player to his previous club beforehand.

I can agree that if this were our only signing or a clear first-choicer then he wouldn't be a name to get excited about. But pretty clearly he's not that. Our first choice right-back is Coleman (who's injured), our great new hope is Kenny (who's experienced). In this circumstance is it not sensible to sign some cover for the position?

And how much more sensible would it be if that cover player was signed on a free transfer thus not blocking off any other signings or budgets?

Or is what you're really ultimately complaining about here the fact we're not spending enough money regardless of results? Should the mission of the transfer window really be to blow the most cash we can, Man City-style? Would you be happier if we'd spunked out £45M for Kyle Walker rather than £25-30M for Keane for instance?

I can only speculate as to how you'd react if we'd spent £85M+ on a forward with a shit first touch who scores well against weaker sides but goes missing in the big games and has questionable temperament/loyalty.

William Cartwright
61 Posted 17/07/2017 at 18:46:57
Well you can't please everyone all the time. Seems like we should rely on Holgate (not a natural right-back) and Kenny (a very promising natural right back who should be No 1 for all the games until Seamus returns.

Mr Cuco is known by Koeman ; he is therefore presumably competent.

Also depending upon how the players perform in training, fitness, form, tactics and other options such as experience and character, then he is understood to be a very good squad player – the same as everyone else!

He should be respected as such. Give him and the management a break. Its going to be a long hard season, longer and harder the more successful we are. It is a squad game, with a team ethos, not a team game of assembled prima donnas (take a bow Rom).

Just so there is no confusion, Jonjoe should have a long and successful career with Everton, and I fully expect his first big season will be 2016-17. Cuco or no Cuco.

Eddie Dunn
62 Posted 17/07/2017 at 18:48:39
I hope he is just a squad man as I want to see more of Kenny. However, the boss knows him, he is tall and can play right back and slot in at centre-half.

Not all of our signings need to be for £50 million.

Danny O'Neill
63 Posted 17/07/2017 at 18:49:42
Well made point, Ray (#53). There is an almost snobbish view of a player based on his previous situation.

Gueye last year was perceived by many as not the right type of calibre we required; part of a midfield that was effectively relegated by Christmas. It's how they fit into our team that matters.

It could and probably will help Kenny. We just don't know how long Coleman will take to recover and how he will come back plus with the Europa League there will (hopefully) be a lot of games to get through. You can't expect Kenny to make the step up and do it consistently to the highest standard every single game. He would burn out.

Also, versatility and cover. My understanding is he's a right sided defender, not an out and out right back. Sounds like a signing with the squad in mind.

Will Mabon
65 Posted 17/07/2017 at 18:50:18
Chris, I get the feeling you disagree with David.
Jay Wood
66 Posted 17/07/2017 at 18:55:31
William @ 61.

"Just so there is no confusion, Jonjnoe should have a long and successful career with Everton, and I fully expect his first big season will be 2016-17."

Jonjoe Kenny, footballer and Time Lord.

Wouldn't that be amazing?

We'd never lose another game!

Kristian Boyce
67 Posted 17/07/2017 at 18:56:28
I don't have an issue with him coming in. With Coleman out until at least the New Year, Kenny was the only real recognized right-back in the team. Holgate has done a job, but it is very clear he isn't the marauding full back that we are used to.

We've been without a backup right-back for years and with the extra games this year, especially leading up to the Christmas period, we need a deeper squad. He's coming in knowing that he's the back-up to Coleman, so being the back-up to Kenny won't be a huge change for him.

Jon Withey
68 Posted 17/07/2017 at 18:59:26
Another way of looking at the Kenny situation is that Koeman hasn't gone out and spent £20mil on a right back – so clearly feels we have enough options with Kenny in the picture.
Chris James
69 Posted 17/07/2017 at 19:00:40
Will, did that come across? I thought I'd been a bit too subtle.
David Barks
70 Posted 17/07/2017 at 19:03:22
Chris James,

I'm not even sure where to start after that novel you just wrote, but I'll start with your shock at my assertion we haven't strengthened in attack.

We have sold Lukaku, the second highest scorer in he Premier League last season and our record goal scorer in the Premier League era. We've also sold Deulofeu back to Barcelona, which we had no control over, and let Valencia go after his loan ended.

Meanwhile, we've signed Rooney and Sandro, with Klaassen added in midfield. Sandro has never played in England, so we have no idea how he will do or if it will take time for him to adapt. There is a long line of Spanish strikers coming to England and struggling.

Rooney is at the end of his career. I hope he still has something left, but he couldn't get into the United team at the end of last season. And Klaassen is not a striker.

As for not knowing what other clubs might have been in for this guy. Come on now. You don't believe for one second that any of the clubs above us wanted this player. He was a reserve for Southampton and left on a free.

This stinks of another Stekelenburg signing, not what we should be doing. You have a youth system to provide cover when needed. I would much rather see Holgate continue in that position or Kenny, as opposed to this guy while our youngsters sit on the bench. A three-year contract? That's what loans are for.

Andrew Ellams
71 Posted 17/07/2017 at 19:09:57
So we all know Kenny is the real deal after two sub appearances? If Kenny is the real deal, he can play the 35+ games that coming before Seamus is available again?

Three-year contract, well if he's not needed in 12 months time, we can get a few quid for him.

Jim Knightley
72 Posted 17/07/2017 at 19:16:40
This Andrew.

There is a lot of talk about how good Kenny is but no one knows how he will handle the extra pace, skill level and pressure of the Premier League. Plenty have praised young players not fit for the premier level, like Garbutt, and Kenny may not make it.

Koeman knows Kenny – the coaching staff know Kenny. It doesn't make them infallible in their judgment but the decision is not being made blind. My sense is that Kenny is better offensively than defensively and needs some more development – he could do well in the Premier League or he could sink – as Chambers did a couple of seasons back and lost a lot in the process.

I'm going to trust in Koeman and hope that Kenny gets chances in certain competitions and in the league if/when he is ready.

Ray Robinson
73 Posted 17/07/2017 at 19:17:23
David, so unless the top 6 clubs are also after a player, we shouldn't be interested? As some else pointed out earlier, we wouldn't have signed Gueye last season using that logic. We sign some players purely as cover – maybe the other 6 already have strength in reserve in Martina's position(s)?

As for signing Stekelenburg last season, unless you've got an arrangement to play the understudy goalkeeper in cup matches, how are you going to attract a top quality understudy?

Buying for the first team and buying for the squad are two different things. At least Martina came on a free and is known to Koeman.

Sean Patton
74 Posted 17/07/2017 at 19:19:59
An absolutely appalling signing that, mark my words, we will come to regret.

Kenny doesn't need a loan or bedding in he needs first team football he has more than earned his chance; there is a vacancy in the squad and he should play.

We have a great crop of trophy-winning youngsters who should not have their progress blocked by average journeymen.

What is the point of getting rid of squad filling freebies like Cleverley and McGeady if we are bringing in more of the same ilk?

Len Hawkins
75 Posted 17/07/2017 at 19:21:25
Free transfer so he must be crap? Short memories some people have... Whelan was charging £Millions for his clear-out and Bobby Brown Shoes talked Boy's Pen Billy into paying it.
Drew O'Neall
76 Posted 17/07/2017 at 19:23:54
I don't see the point of signing guys like this when we have Holgate and Kenny in the wings who would play for nix.

Why not give his £30k/week and half a mil signing-on fee to Giroud or Sigurdsson?

David Chait
77 Posted 17/07/2017 at 19:25:19
Seems every manager has their Alcaraz.

3 years is long... longer than Koeman will probably be around!

John Davies
78 Posted 17/07/2017 at 19:25:23
Amazing how we have so many experts who think they know better than Ronald Koeman when it comes to assessing players' abilities. Why don't any of them have the managers job? For Christ's sake just wait and comment once the lad has had a few games will you!
Mike Gaynes
79 Posted 17/07/2017 at 19:25:23
Chris #60... could you expand on that post just a bit?
Darryl Ritchie
80 Posted 17/07/2017 at 19:25:45
Good business!
Dave Pritchard
81 Posted 17/07/2017 at 19:31:54
Jonjoe Kenny is an outstanding right-back is the impression given by many on here. I hope he is but he is undoubtedly unproven at Premier League level so too early to be pinning too much on him.

I am not saying that he (Jonjoe) doesn't look to be an exciting prospect or that he shouldn't be given game time but we do need a big squad so don't damn this new boy so quickly. He is an Everton player now so give him some support.

Jamie Crowley
82 Posted 17/07/2017 at 19:35:27
Don't know much about this guy but, with Seamus's injury, surely we'll need some cover at right-back.

I think Kenny's opportunity to "prove" himself will surface while Coleman is away –be it in a European game or the Premier League.

Good signing. Prudent signing, minimally.

Darren Hind
83 Posted 17/07/2017 at 19:35:48
Haven't seen enough of this guy to pass any comment. He’s now an Everton player so we support him... but I really, really, really hope Koeman has taken Kenny to one side and told him he has the gig and will be given every chance to prove he is up to it.
Mike Gaynes
84 Posted 17/07/2017 at 19:36:44
Sean (#74), he will play. A lot.

But to simply gift the starting right-back job to a 20-year-old with zero first-team experience is Looney Tunes material in my opinion.

Even if Kenny turns out to be as good as we expect – and that is certainly not assured – there's no way a young 140-pound kid like this can play every game between now and the New Year when we hope Coleman returns.

Guess I trust Koeman's judgement more than you do.

Drew O'Neall
85 Posted 17/07/2017 at 19:38:04
Mike Gaynes blows goats 😉
Mike Gaynes
86 Posted 17/07/2017 at 19:39:20
Can't argue any of that, Drew. Great post.
Sean Patton
87 Posted 17/07/2017 at 19:43:50
Yes Kenny is unproven but this guy is a proven failure who is not upto the task.

If we play this fella regularly, he will make mistakes and cost us games – just like he did at Southampton

Danny O'Neill
88 Posted 17/07/2017 at 19:47:20
Paul Power anyone? Sometimes you need these type of squad signings.
David Barks
89 Posted 17/07/2017 at 19:50:22
So people keep talking about needing experienced cover because Coleman will be out until the New Year. So how exactly does that equate to a three year contract?

Oh I forgot, can not question Dear Leader. He knows all and we know nothing.

By the way, I'd sooner give Lennon a run as a right wing back than this guy.

Mike Berry
90 Posted 17/07/2017 at 19:52:10
John Davies (78), Spot on, pal.

A good move, on a free and Ron knows the lad and he also knows we need cover, if he thought Martina was suspect then surely he would not have brought him in or considered him good for the benefit of the team.

Colin McBride
91 Posted 17/07/2017 at 19:55:51
I'm not sure why you all think Kenny is in line to play?

Holgate has been ahead of him so far even though he's not a great right back. I didn't rate Holgate at the euros either so we needed someone with some experience.

I'm not sure about this guy either unfortunately but I'll stop short of making assumptions that he's shit.

Mike Bird
92 Posted 17/07/2017 at 19:57:12
David Barks (#34) "Sorry, if he's not good enough for Spurs, Man City, Chelsea, Man Utd, Arsenal or Liverpool, then he's not good enough for Everton. It really can and should be that simple."

With that reasoning, how do we sign anybody as no-one would be good enough if they chose Everton over that lot?

Mike Gaynes
93 Posted 17/07/2017 at 19:59:23
Fine, David, no problem. We'll trust you instead.

Just fill us in on the player a bit more.

When was it you managed him? Or even saw him play?

Steve Ferns
94 Posted 17/07/2017 at 20:00:05
If he can play left back too then that takes the signing up a notch. And that fits in more with Ronald's assessment of the lad.
Eric Paul
95 Posted 17/07/2017 at 20:07:48
Dermot Byrne
96 Posted 17/07/2017 at 20:08:26
David (#34):

”Sorry, if he's not good enough for Spurs, man City, Chelsea, Man Utd, Arsenal or Liverpool, then he's not good enough for Everton. It really can and should be that simple."

Absolute simplistic horseshit. It implies we cannot make good judgement and also would lead us to be the most ripped off club ever as every player we went for, we had to have beaten one of those clubs to get him.

Get a grip, lad. You know what you wrote just came from a dislike of the Boss and that is making you make ludicrous claims under the guise of the bold man fighting against the majority.

Well you may be but I see little bravado, just nonsense.

Joe O'Brien
97 Posted 17/07/2017 at 20:18:22
Some people on here are unreal. He's a shit signing, he'll cost us points.. Mark my words.

He's here on a free, we need cover at right-back with the amount of games we've got with the Europa league and the league.

Seamus is a long term injury and Jonjoe is unproven at the moment. I think this is a smart signing, they'll both play who knows who will play in the Premier League. Maybe Kenny in the cups to get experience and then he might cement his place in the league. Again, who knows? But I do know we need cover and Koeman knows him and I trust his judgement.

Galloway couldn't get into the West Brom side.. should we sell him off claiming he's shite too?

Brian Harrison
98 Posted 17/07/2017 at 20:19:27
I don't want to be picky but shouldn't we be concentrating on bringing at least another striker in? Lukaku, Kone and Valencia all gone and only Sandro brought in.

Should he sustain an injury and it would mean playing Calvert-Lewin. Now he looks very promising but, for me, given our early fixtures, I think we need more firepower than we have at present.

Damian Wilde
99 Posted 17/07/2017 at 20:19:52
People saying he may be cover for Kenny. Why would you give someone a three-year contract if he was going to be a third choice right-back? If this was the case, why bother? You could use Holgate there, who was decent at right-back last season.

Strange signing, a sort of Everton of old signing.

Dermot Byrne
100 Posted 17/07/2017 at 20:27:42
Brian: I suspect we are aiming to do both. Everton multitask shock!
Joe O'Brien
101 Posted 17/07/2017 at 20:36:04
There's no guarantee that Coleman is going to come back the same player as he was before his injury (although I hope he will). Holgate wasn't great a right back at all. He'll be a great centre-back but a right back he is not.
Mike Gaynes
102 Posted 17/07/2017 at 20:36:15
Off-topic but worth a note... Kevin Sheedy has signed on as a coach for Al-Shabab in Saudi Arabia. Their manager is Sami Al-Jaber, the first Saudi to play in the Premier League.

That makes me very sad. Sheeds the Legend does not belong in friggin' Saudi Arabia. He belongs at Finch Farm and Goodison.

Phil Walling
103 Posted 17/07/2017 at 20:42:35
Premier League clubs seriously in search of honours do not sign Southampton's third choice full-backs anymore than they are likely to sign Southampton's third choice goalie. That's for the simple reason the one is likely to be no more talented than the other!

Of course, Koeman's latest signing will allow opportunities for the likes of Kenny and Holgate 'to gain experience' by being sent out on loan whilst we await Coleman's return.

You have to see the' long picture' not re-act to every little foible of our manager. After all, as Moyes used to tell us, 'Teams are not built in one transfer window'.

Dermot Byrne
104 Posted 17/07/2017 at 20:47:16
I suspect he differs, Mike – big big money.
Mike Gaynes
105 Posted 17/07/2017 at 20:50:15
No doubt about that, Dermot.

I didn't say he was sad... I said I was!

Nathan Jones
106 Posted 17/07/2017 at 20:59:25
Smart signing. We don't have a right back. Seamus Coleman has been terribly injured, not due back till Christmas, and if he ever (please god) returns to his his former self that probably won't be to the start of next season.

I don't think anyone wants to spend a load of money on a right back so a free one who the manager knows with Premier League experience battling with a kid I hope succeeds is the right way forward.

Paul Tran
107 Posted 17/07/2017 at 21:07:21
Don't know this guy from Adam, but Koeman knows him, we need a big squad, he's free.

Darren (#83), I also hope Kenny gets the gig, but in the event of him not being good enough or being over-exposed too soon, I'm glad we've brought in cover. Looks prudent to me.

Barry Williams
108 Posted 17/07/2017 at 21:12:24
He has Premier League experience and is free. He can play in a variety of positions and is known by the managerial team. If Kenny proves to be the player we want him to be, he will get picked. If Martina isn't wanted after a year or so, then we sell him at a profit.

We still don't know what Coleman will be like on his return, these type of long term injuries often mean the player has a lot of niggling injuries on their return. Kenny is inexperienced and Holgate is a centre-back, so it's a no-brainer.

What top right-back would come to Everton knowing that they'll probably be 2nd in line to Coleman, especially as he has just signed a new contract? Also, we are going to hopefully be playing a huge amount of games, meaning more injuries, suspensions and fatigue. I can't see anything wrong with this signing.

For those complaining about striking recruits, there is still a long way to go before the transfer window closes. Lukaku needs replacing, yes. Valencia and Kone were never first-team material, whereas Rooney and Sandro appear to be.

We are going in the right direction, and some!

Charlie Lloyd
109 Posted 17/07/2017 at 21:15:48
Not the most inspired signing but some logic behind it.

I certainly hope Kenny starts the season at right-back. What's wrong with competition though?

Kenny has hardly played at the top level and may need to be rotated in and out. Martina will help this. When Coleman gets back well I'm not so sure. Like most though I rate Kenny and don't want his progress to stall.

Martina is probably a better option than Holgate too who looked a bit devoid of ideas going forward last season. Modern full backs need both sides of the game to survive.

Sam Hoare
110 Posted 17/07/2017 at 21:18:20
If our new 2nd or 3rd choice RB can score a few more of these I'll be happy enough

Philip Braithwaite
111 Posted 17/07/2017 at 21:23:36
Come on, guys. He's a free, wages excluded, versatile, and joining a good, and getting stronger squad.

Having watched football for many decades, squads, teams, groups of players, evolve; some better than others. When this squad finally starts to play together we will see. If all is good, fine, some players who we think may be our strongest may struggle, weaker ones may rise, but the squad may be really good.

We now have numbers, we now have players that may be able to perform. Young, old, it don't matter, if, and hopefully when we start turning up week after week, home and AWAY, the players will play.

I never ever in the 60s went to a game thinking we could ever lose. Maybe we can start having the same thoughts soon.

Neil Thomas
112 Posted 17/07/2017 at 21:27:40
Phillip (#111), You just took the words out of my mouth. Surely being a freebie and adding to the squad is a positive – especially with European football this season.
Mike Gaynes
113 Posted 17/07/2017 at 21:32:33
Great find, Sam. Wow, that was some serious banana.
Tony Hill
114 Posted 17/07/2017 at 21:35:40
Let's see how he fits in, sometimes things just click.
Anthony Millington
115 Posted 17/07/2017 at 21:51:05
Decent cheap option while Coleman is injured. Surely we need some cover/ competition for Baines now on left but Oviedo has gone and Galloway loaned out and Garbutt hasn't got a squad number.
Ian Bennett
116 Posted 17/07/2017 at 22:02:51
I had hoped for better, but at least he adds to a position in case Coleman takes longer than expected and if Kenny isn't ready.

Hope Holgate gets game time, but better suited at centre back.

Ben Dyke
117 Posted 17/07/2017 at 22:17:23
I can't believe we've signed someone with a girl's name – Koeman ,what were you thinking? Martina... and his first names a clown's name... Or something.
Richard Evans
118 Posted 17/07/2017 at 22:17:33
I've lived in Southampton for 4 years and been to few games at St Mary's. Soares was definitely the preferred right-back and better going forward but Martina seems to have lots of energy, strong, athletic and rarely beaten on the back post. His crossing seems very hit & miss but hopefully he's a good risk-free acquisition.
Chris James
119 Posted 17/07/2017 at 22:23:21
Touche,David, if you will allow me to rejoinder...

"I'm not even sure where to start after that novel you just wrote, but I'll start with your shock at my assertion we haven't strengthened in attack. We have sold Lukaku, the second highest scorer in he Premier League last season and our record goal scorer in the premier league era. We've also sold Deulofeu back to Barcelona, which we had no control over, and let Valencia go after his loan ended."

This will be Deulofeu who was on loan the entirety of last season and scored a mammoth 2 goals in 25 games the season before. As for Valencia, would you seriously think our front-line would be strengthened by signing a player that West Ham didn't want?

Yes, Lukaku has gone and obviously that would be a loss to any club (even Chelsea who let him go to begin with); I get that v and yes we need to add at least one more frontline striker (maybe even two) to play up along with the likes of Rooney, Sandro etc, but what indicates to you that this isn't a clearly understood priority for the club also?

Your assertion was that somehow we'd missed the boat or that the likes of Martina were being brought in some how above a forward which is clearly absolute nonsense.

"Meanwhile, we've signed Rooney and Sandro, with Klaassen added in midfield. Sandro has never played in England, so we have no idea how he will do or if it will take time for him to adapt. There is a long line of Spanish strikers coming to England and struggling. Rooney is at the end of his career. I hope he still has something left, but he couldn't get into the Man Utd team at the end of last season. And Klaassen is not a striker."

These are all valid points to make, but also the sort of objections that will apply to every signing to some degree.

"Sanchez, Hazard, Mahrez, Costa, Aguero, Van Persie etc, etc" has never played in the Premier League before they started either – obviously Sandro has every chance of being a flop as a success as with any signing (Premier League pedigree or not – on this note it is not a certainty that Lukaku will be a success at Man Utd for instance, is he really better than Abrahmovic, Martial, Rashford, etc?)

Re Rooney, obviously he's in the final stages of his career not the start, but equally he's a passion-led player who'd clearly lost his mojo at Man Utd, was played all over the place and like many others was made to look ordinary by Mourinho's spoil-first tactics (who has stood out in the Man Utd lineup?).

Klaassen is not a striker, no argument there!

In addition to above I'd yet again reiterate my point that you're talking as if the transfer window is over or there's been ANY indication we won't add to the forward line with further signings.

"As for not knowing what other clubs might have been in for this guy. Come on now. You don't believe for one second that any of the clubs above us wanted this player. He was a reserve for Southampton and left on a free."

I don't know that any of the clubs above us wanted this player, I suspect you could be right, most of them aren't looking for right-backs. Thing is that wasn't your point was it – you asserted that no-one else wanted him, not '6 clubs above us didn't want him'.

"This stinks of another Stekelenburg signing, not what we should be doing. You have a youth system to provide cover when needed. I would much rather see Holgate continue in that position or Kenny, as opposed to this guy while our youngsters sit on the bench. A three-year contract? That's what loans are for."

Koeman clearly has hopes to be in multiple competitions for sometime to come, to do that you need a squad and not one filled out just by loan players that have to be replaced each season but by players who are half-decent but recognise they won't be first choice and are happy to play a squad role and hopefully fight for a place.

This is exactly what Martina and Stekelenburg are and why I think they are smart signings. You can't have 30 first-choice stars and keep them happy, that approach doesn't even work in Football Manager anymore – nevermind the real premier league packed with prima donnas and even more temperamental agents.

I totally agree that giving the youngsters a chance is part of the strategy, but to go into an Premier League and Europa League campaign without any sort of experience in the right-back position seems crazy.

As I see it we have Coleman who'll be first choice when he recovers, but until then we give Kenny a chance and rotate with Martina as needed.

Holgate is a centre-back and with Funes Mori out should be started/rotated in that position along with Keane, Williams and Jags.

Jack Convery
120 Posted 17/07/2017 at 22:25:03
Get back to spending the dosh – Vardy, Sigurdsson and Van Dijk. Not Walcott please. We'll have to trust Koeman on this freeby though.
Hywel Owen
121 Posted 17/07/2017 at 22:29:24
So the Soton fans think he's useless – many Everton fans think at least half of our squad are useless. The average fan either likes or dislikes a player with no apparent logic to back up that opinion. You only have to listen to some of them to realise that.

With regard to our very talented youngsters, they will learn from older players like Martina and, knowing that they cannot just walk into the team, will try even harder to impress Koeman.

For too long, we have had a team that picked itself and that's why we have struggled and the trophy cupboard has not been used for 22 years.

Chris James
122 Posted 17/07/2017 at 22:39:09
One other positive we're overlooking is the knock-on effect of increasing fan-base and shirt sales in Curacao now we have their captain.

There's a market of 150k+ there, over c 50k of which are 15+ year-old males; if just 10% of them bought a shirt, that'd be enough to pay a week of Wayne's wages!

Alan McGuffog
123 Posted 17/07/2017 at 22:40:38
Jesus! Have we gone back to the days of signing no-marks like Paul Power and Wayne Clarke?
Gavin Johnson
124 Posted 17/07/2017 at 22:43:58
Seems like a better and more useful player than the signing of the permo crocked Alcaraz. That said, I'm not sure that's much of a barometer for what is a good free transfer.
Danny O'Neill
125 Posted 17/07/2017 at 22:44:46
Henry, Costa, Suarez, Aguero – none had ever played in England until... erm, the first time they played in England.

Ferguson, Mourinio, Wenger – none had ever managed or succeeded in England until... erm, the first time they managed in England.

Since when has experience in playing or managing in Eng-ger-lund been relevant to succeeding?

Christopher Wallace
126 Posted 17/07/2017 at 22:45:02
By David Barks's logic, we shouldn't have signed:


Have there been any top 6 approaches for Tom Davies? If not, then get rid.

Daniel Joseph
127 Posted 17/07/2017 at 22:53:42
Way too much negativity over this signing. Welcome to EFC. Enjoy your stay and we all hope it is successful.
Derek Knox
128 Posted 17/07/2017 at 22:55:02
Jack @120, I presume you are one of the younger, and more recent TW'ers, spending money on players does not guarantee success.

I remember well, an interview with Bob Paisley, of the Red Shite, and he so succinctly, said this, you can go out and buy players, the best players in the world, for every position, but that will guarantee you nothing; every player, no matter how good everyone thinks he is, has weaknesses. You have to achieve that balance, by having Workhorses, who play to their strengths, and cover their weaknesses.

I have never forgotten that, and although, he was manager/assistant to Shankly, I totally respect both of them for their football ethics, which I believe still holds true today.

Pity, very few, even managers, Don't heed there invaluable advice!

I am in no way a Red Shite, but I did respect both of those men, and being a fellow Scot, I did meet Shanks on several occasions, through non-football situations, and Paisley once.

They were legends.

Colin Grierson
129 Posted 17/07/2017 at 23:00:44
Alan, behave yourself, man – they've surely retired by now!
Denis Richardson
130 Posted 17/07/2017 at 23:01:35
A lot of people are overly worried about Kenny imo. What happened to the player in form / who is best should get the nod?

Before we signed this guy we only had one right back, Kenny, who has bugger all senior experience. Do you not think it wise we get another in with experience? Holgate is not a right back and it'll likely be 2018 before Coleman's ready to kick a ball in anger, nevermind not being certain how long it'll take him to play at his peak again.

If Kenny's ready to step up then he should prove it and if people don't rate this signing then Kenny shouldn't have a problem, should he? We'll also have a load more games to play with the Europa League so an extra body is a bonus imo.

Joe O'Brien
131 Posted 17/07/2017 at 23:09:52
Derek @128, I just skipped over your entire post... legends my arse.
James Watts
132 Posted 17/07/2017 at 23:11:48
First signing I'm going to be negative about. Crap player. Awful signing, even on a free and the one I've been hoping didn't go through. And a 3-year contract too? What a waste of wages. Hopefully we'll only see him wear the shirt for the U23s (behind Kenny or Holgate) and the very odd cup game when we play League Two sides.

If he starts against Stoke, I despair!

For those of you say give the guy a chance, he's only cover, etc read this Q&A session with a Southampton fan. When you all see him play, I'll try not to come on here and say I told you so:

But a few highlights:

Q. What are Martina's weaknesses?

A. Everything that involves having a football at his feet.

Q. He's been brought in solely as cover for Seamus Coleman. Can he fill the Irishman's boots, or should Koeman stick to Mason Holgate or Jonjoe Kenny on the right?

A. Koeman knows Martina and vice-versa – it wouldn't surprise me to see him lining up on the opening day of the season. However, I think Holgate is a lot better than Martina. He'll do a job for you in the cup games – maybe not in the Europa League ones – but he's pretty below par, so I'd stick with Holgate. I've heard good things about Kenny, too.

Q. To summarise – on a free transfer – is Martina a good signing for Everton?

A. I don't personally think so, no. While there's a low-risk strategy behind the move, I don't see the logic in it myself. Yes, he's just a cover option, but surely you can do better!


Dave Speed
133 Posted 17/07/2017 at 23:13:37
This guy can do a job across the back line. I don't think that Koeman is looking past Jonjoe and Mason at right-back, unless it all goes udders up. He is known for blooding young players and giving them a chance, that's why we've managed to attract quite a few recently, not least Calvert-Lewin and Lookman.

No, I believe that it is Leighton Baines who may break sweat, as much as it saddens me to say it. He has lost a lot of his pace and his engine isn't the same to get him up and down the wing like he used to. A couple of years ago I think he had the highest amount of assists in the Premier League.

However, I don't think he's finished. I think that if Cuco is is tried at left-back, then Baines can move forward to midfield. There aren't many at the club who can pass as accurately as he can, and he could be causing all kinds of problems in a Mata type role, without worrying about getting back.

Denis Richardson
134 Posted 17/07/2017 at 23:14:24
Forgot to ask, is that 6 first team squad signings already? And we're still 3 weeks from the league KO!

Other than Baines, I think we may be starting the first league game with an entirely new team of Koeman signings (plus Davies). He'd have changed the whole side in barely 12 months – that's some doing if it comes off.

Chris James
135 Posted 17/07/2017 at 23:25:24
Would seem to be the case Denis!

I'd expect at least 2 more before the season starts (ideally before the start of August), first choice attacking midfield (I'd be happy with Sigurdsson or Mahrez even at £40M+) and a target-man up front (tougher choice I think there's sense in Giroud but we'd need supporting pace, haven't heard much more about Dembele so I suspect that's off).

Ernie Baywood
136 Posted 17/07/2017 at 23:26:34
Makes perfect sense to me. Even in the best case scenario, Seamus won't be 100% when he's back.

So if you had an untested 20-year-old with great potential as your only right back what would you do? I'd bring in an experienced free transfer.

Steve Bingham
137 Posted 17/07/2017 at 23:28:06
Way too much negativity on this one in my opinion. It has been a positive summer so far and I don't think the signings are finished by a long way yet.
Nicholas Ryan
138 Posted 17/07/2017 at 23:44:42
Koeman rates him, and he's free!
Don Alexander
139 Posted 17/07/2017 at 00:08:05
The year before he signed for us, Koeman got Southampton their record points total and 6th position, above us obviously. He did it having lost several of their biggest players before the season kicked off, with half a dozen new signings, Martina being one of them. He played in half their games.

The season before that, they had had the same number of big players leave in the summer, with the same number of new signings. They finished 7th, in his first season in the Premier League.

It's therefore reasonable to hope that with our influx of players, including Martina, for the loss up to now of only Lukaku in terms of "first-team", we have genuine cause to be excited about the extent of our improvement next season.

Koeman has proved he has the kudos, twice.

But hey, let's have a whinge because Martina ain't a super-star!

Dan Davies
140 Posted 18/07/2017 at 00:23:20
Squad overhaul. Different mentality. Shake things up. Bye Pennington? Fresh blood approach?

Says to the youngsters 'Are you better'? Prove it.

James Watts
141 Posted 18/07/2017 at 00:30:11
Don (#139). Personally I'm not whinging about Koeman and his managerial ability. In fact I think hes generally a very good manager.

I'm personally whinging about Martina for one simple reason. He's absolute garbage and no where good enough for a team trying to break into top 4. Read the link I posted a couple of entries back.

And that's the 100% majority view from any Southampton fan you could talk too. Not one thinks he's even okay, let alone good. You'll see but don't say you were not warned.

The only hope I have now is that Kenny gets in and is at least given a chance before this guy. If Martina is straight in with no sign of Kenny, then I'll despair.

Dave Abrahams
142 Posted 18/07/2017 at 00:33:24
Don (#139) I'm not interested in whether Martina is a super star or not, as long as he can play football, and I'll give him every chance to prove his worth.

First of all though, Don, I want Jonjoe Kenny to have first go at proving his value to the team. Jonjoe has worked his socks off at Everton since he was a young boy at the club, and now he is twenty he deserves ago at right back.

Fairs fair, Martina is a free transfer, he will be getting a very good deal with a 3-year deal, so he can wait while Jonjoe, who has been here ten years or more has first go in the team, if he isn't up to the job, Cuco can have a go. I think he will have a bit of a wait.

Don Alexander
143 Posted 18/07/2017 at 00:51:20
I've got no gripe at all about what I've seen of Kenny; if he plays next season, I hope he wins a consistent start, but through no fault of his own he's untested in the Premier League. I agree he looks a good player already.

Martina played half a season for a team that came 6th. Hopefully that shows he's not a liability. Koeman has two seasons left to get us a Champions League spot. He doesn't know how well Seamus will recover, or precisely when, save it'll be 2018 in all likelihood, and he therefore has every right to be nervous going into the season with Kenny alone as an out-and-out right back.

As ever with new signings though, whatever their cost, contract or salary, who knows? All I'm saying is let's try to support him, the manager and the club (in reverse order) until they've shown themselves in our colours to be deserving of complaint.

Andrew Keatley
144 Posted 18/07/2017 at 00:53:36
Free signing. Premier League experience. Already known by our manager. Cover for the injured Seamus Coleman, in a position in which we have only young unproven players as back-up. 27 years old, and on a 3-year contract.

And some people still think it's poor business and a huge mistake; I'd say this transfer window has given some people on here delusions of grandeur.

As others have mentioned, we will hopefully be competing on four fronts, and need a squad equipped to fulfil a congested fixture list. Hopefully Jonjoe Kenny will rise to the challenge of becoming a regular first-teamer, but in the event that his form dips – or that he is not as ready as we hope he is – then having Martina in the squad could be vital.

I think Martina is a decent stop-gap. If Kenny proves himself, and Coleman returns to the form and fitness of before, then maybe Martina will move on in 12 months time, and earn us a little transfer fee into the bargain. And if he stays then hopefully it will be because he has earned his place in the squad.

John Pierce
145 Posted 18/07/2017 at 01:04:23
Look at it this way. Martina is journeyman and is there to provide cover. The bar therefore is low. If Jonjoe can't get over it then that says more about him than Cuco.

Better than buying a 24- or 25-year-old established right-back who blocks the path of a potentially very good player.

Right move by Everton. Good assessment of the situation. Koeman gets a merit point for that.

James Watts
146 Posted 18/07/2017 at 01:30:09
Mike (#11). Just trawling through the posts and saw yours. Sorry I was late to the party, was fast asleep but I'm here now. You miss me? 😁

Obviously my views on this guy haven't changed (see my post a few back and the general consensus of his ability direct from Southampton fans).

Would rather have had Hibbert back as cover. Dreadful signing.

Still onwards and upwards. Happy with all the other signings and will be hopefully happy with more in-comings.

I'm sure we will revisit what a great (!?) signing this chap is after he's played a few games. But I really hope that signing photo shoot is the last time I see him in an Everton shirt.

Jay Harris
147 Posted 18/07/2017 at 01:33:08
A modern day Alan Harper on a free with presumably low wages.

No-brainer for me especially as the manager already knows his strengths and weaknesses.

Tony Stanley
148 Posted 18/07/2017 at 01:35:04
Chris James (#60), you get the award for the longest text I have ever seen on the internet.
Peter Gorman
149 Posted 18/07/2017 at 01:36:02
Give the lad a chance. The fear is Kenny gets no game time and we see Martina and Holgate occupying Coleman's berth until he recovers but, as others have said, we need the cover so let's see how he does.
Paul Kelly
150 Posted 17/07/2017 at 01:49:09
Ernie – enough of the common sense, you'll make enemies with comments like that.

Personally I'll reserve judgement until I see him play.

Chris James
151 Posted 18/07/2017 at 02:01:32
Just as an aside, while we're waiting for next signing.

This debut offers something for everyone – heavy touches, missed chances, easily surrendered balls and 'hands in the air' protestations. Textbook stuff...

Bob Parrington
152 Posted 18/07/2017 at 02:25:59
At a time when we don't know how long Seamus will be out or, indeed, how effective he will be on his return, this seems like good sensible squad business. Hopefully Jonjoe Kenny gets his chance to start.
Don Alexander
153 Posted 18/07/2017 at 02:32:09
In fairness, Chris, he was right under the cosh... being marked by 36-year-old Ashley Cole.
Dennis Ng
154 Posted 18/07/2017 at 03:20:41
Free transfer for a 27-year-old with Premier League experience is okay. This signing is more like a "more bodies" signing.

I agree with comments relating to Kenny. I hope Kenny gets his chance to step up.

David Ellis
155 Posted 18/07/2017 at 03:44:34
The strategy is right... bring in a back-up right-back who the manager knows well and whose happy to be a back-up. If Kenny's good enough he'll get in the team. If not then we have back-up who's not a converted centre-back or a teenager. Chris James wins this argument with David Barks for me.

However this strategy is only properly implemented if Martina is of a decent Premier League standard...and I am concerned that so many of the Southampton fans don't think so. I guess we shall have to wait and see.

James Watts
156 Posted 18/07/2017 at 04:10:21
David (#155). Spot on.

"However this strategy is only properly implemented if Martina is of a decent Premier League standard."

That's been my point all along. I don't disagree we need cover and more bodies in. The whole reason I've been so against this signing is because he is not a decent premier league standard.

Unfortunately people have their head in the sand thinking "he can do a job; "it's good we have more bodies in", "Koeman knows him" etc arguments.

He is a very poor player and that is the sole reason I personally hope we rarely, if ever, see him in an Everton first XI.

I'm not Koeman. I'm not Walsh or a scout so my opinion counts for very little (like most here on tw) but my expectations are rock bottom on him so at least I'm prepared. Others will be in for a rude awakening.

Speak to any single Southampton fan, I personally know a couple, and you'll get the same response about his ability.

Finally, a 3-year contract? That's pretty dumb and a complete waste of resources. No idea how his agent got him that!

Alan J Thompson
157 Posted 18/07/2017 at 04:53:15
This must have been done on the productivity phone as it reeks more of the old pals school than a Walshie gem.

If I was Kenny and this bloke started before me I'd be tempted to ask Ross for his agent's phone number. Our cast-offs are sold to Barcelona, Man Utd and possibly Spurs and we pick up Dutch reserves from Southampton's free list. Now there's a message!

Mike Gaynes
159 Posted 18/07/2017 at 06:24:26
James #146, of course I missed you. This thread would not have been complete without your repeated "crap player" contribution and your claim that 100% of Saints fans feel exactly the way you do.

Not true.

I don't know any Saints supporters here, so I logged onto a couple of their fan forums and found opinion considerably more mixed than you claim.

"Thank you, Cuco, for treating us all to a wonder goal. It may well have been the only memorable thing you ever did, but WOW! it was spectacular."

"One of the great days to be a Saint's fan, seeing Cuco blast in like that v the Arsenal - 4-0 in the end wasn't it? Thanks Cuco."

"A bit of a shame how it turned out for him at Saints. The guy definitely has the potential to be a very good player, just needs good coaching and the confidence that a decent run in the first team will bring."

"Really? I thought he was a nice bloke with a good attitude who was a very limited footballer."

"That's how I remember him. I think that goal gave him confidence in the second half of that season but he is not a Premier League level player."

"he is gonna set Goodison Park alight."

"Good luck to the lad. Very likable character, but no loss to our squad."

"And will always be remembered for THAT goal! Heavens - still makes me smile thinking about it now. Probably will always do so too."

"Also we got far more good games out of Cuco than I was expecting for the money we paid. I personally count him as a good buy."

So, gee, James, it does seem that your opinion is NOT that of the "...100% majority view from any Southampton fan you could talk too."

Is it now?

Ray Robinson
160 Posted 18/07/2017 at 06:38:00
Alan (#157). Why are you comparing Martina's signing to Deulofeu's transfer (Barcelona excercised a buy back clause), Lukaku's departure (clearly wanted to go – we got good money) and Barkley (refusing to sign new contract)? Why aren't you comparing it to the sale of McGeady, Pienaar, Gibson etc, etc?

If Barkley does leave, a Klaassen / Sigurdsson comparison would be more appropriate.

I really fail to see your point.

James Watts
161 Posted 18/07/2017 at 07:15:08
Ah Mike. I've been expecting you. I like a man who does his research and doesn't just spout off. Good job and like debates like this!

Out of those quotes you've posted I would count 5 who didn't rate him, with a couple not really saying, so technically you're correct going by that and I would say 100% of fans was probably a few % over. I should have used the words "vast majority of fans" and "all 100% of Southampton fans I know , albeit only two, think he's poor".

You know my view and what it's based on "majority (not 100%) of Southampton fans and my own eyes" and I think that's still stronger than your overall argument of "Koeman knows him and we need cover". And did you read the link I posted re the interview from the read Southampton guy? Quite enlightening on his talent.

Shall we say, let's revisit after he's played say 5 or 10 games for us to get your views and compare notes then?

Whatever happens, I hope Kenny gets first crack at right back and Holgate gets some centre-back game time.

Dermot Byrne
162 Posted 18/07/2017 at 07:30:22
"Speak to any single Southampton fan, I personally know a couple.."

Nuff sed.

James Watts
163 Posted 18/07/2017 at 07:40:40
Sorry Dermot. Missed your point there? And what does "nuff sed" mean? Don't you got to school young man?
Dermot Byrne
165 Posted 18/07/2017 at 07:47:32
James – Seems to be folk are claiming that the views of Southampton fans are represented by small amounts of evidence.

But more importantly, whilst the "young man" comment was a great way to begin the day, I am 56, have little evidence that that is the new 40 and was therefore pre-modern education standards (did I write last bit?!)

James Watts
167 Posted 18/07/2017 at 08:14:17
Ah gotcha. Right on man. Yo yo. Ma bruda. Thought I'd join in...

But to clarify. I do know a couple of fans but my view is not based on that alone. It's also based on the majority of other Southampton fans who have written about him. Either on forums, Twitter or in interviews like the link I previously posted. Plus my own eyes.

Annnnnnyhow. Enough on this guy from me, I've said my piece. Not one argument through the entire thread has swayed my opinion. I will revisit once he's played 5 /10 games so we can all judge him based on performances for us.

David Milner
168 Posted 18/07/2017 at 08:37:16
No brainer really, free & only wages to pay. Captains his country (Curacao) & featured in the Concaf Cup recently only losing 2-0 to Mexico.

He has experience and I doubt if he is asking for much money. The performance of Kenny in Tanzania was not very good, Pennington in the second half was better.

So what do you do, sign a proper right back for big money & Kenny will be sold as he will never get a look in? Or do you sign a player well known to the manager & hope one of either Kenny or Markelo is good enough to challenge Coleman next season?

Not a difficult decision really.

John G Davies
169 Posted 18/07/2017 at 08:38:29
James (#167),

I have no idea if he will be a decent signing having not seen him in a game. Where did you watch him play?

Bob Parrington
170 Posted 18/07/2017 at 08:51:07
Good point John G. Was thinking the same myself. I haven't watched the guy at all and so I can't comment on his skill levels. Wish I had watched him and then I could do do with some (guidedly used!!) authority.

Over to you, James. How many times have you watched him or are you, like me, listening to other people's opinions?

Ronnie Pearce
171 Posted 18/07/2017 at 09:00:35
Just like that stupid sentimental twat Koeman to play a shite useless player instead of a homegrown world beater.

That will keep him in a job come the end of the season.

Dave Speed
172 Posted 18/07/2017 at 09:07:56
Rooney, Klaassen, Pickford, Schneiderlin, Sigurdsson, Martina and so on. Shot to pieces before they've kicked a ball for us.

For me it's like the story of the genie in the bottle. For the first thousand years he was going to reward anyone who let him out with riches beyond a mortal's wildest dreams. For the next thousand years he would kill whoever let him out. It seems that TW opinion is a polarised as the genie's.

FFS by all means state an opinion if it's researched and balanced, and predict the outcome so you can say "I told you so" later. But also add in they are now Everton players and deserving of our support and don't deserve to be treated this way simply for accepting an offer of a job. I would hate to offend some of our fans (yes I remember some of Rooney's silly antics and all the tit-for-tat before I get accused of blind loyalty etc), as Crucifixion seems to be too humane a punishment for some.

Do they still sell cushions for the top of the Main Stand? Lock and load guys cos sooner or later, one of them is going to have a stinker. Let's just hope it's not one of the youngsters.

David Ellis
173 Posted 18/07/2017 at 09:11:47
Dave... you said "lock and load". All hell will shortly break loose...
Colin Glassar
174 Posted 18/07/2017 at 09:13:24
I saw Martina play once (live game) on the telly and to be perfectly honest, he played very well. I can't really come to a firm conclusion after just one game so I'll wait and see.

The Southampton fans seem happy to see him leave but Ronald appears to believe in him. Let's see who's right.

Tony Cunningham
175 Posted 18/07/2017 at 09:15:20
David Barks (#25) – complaining we're buying free transfers from small clubs to act as back up players. Who should we be buying as back up to Coleman?

Let's face it whoever comes in isn't going to be a regular once Coleman is fit so no big name would bother coming (bar Coleman's injury failing to heal). Should we really spend £20 mill on a reserve right back? Also, since Koeman has good knowledge of him he should perform at a level expected by the club.

I, like most people on here, also hope Kenny gets a good run as well, meaning this seems a good level of back up for the squad. He might not get much game time but he might not be getting bought to get much game time.

Also whilst for our (fans) purposes 3 years seems a long time, footballer contracts usually are for 3 years or more unless they are in mid 30's etc. The footballer wants security and won't just sign for one year and also, if he is surplus to requirements, we could sell him for a profit next summer and everyone's a winner.

Andrew Ellams
176 Posted 18/07/2017 at 09:18:21
Alan @157 – if a 19-year-old with next to no first team experience suddenly started crying for his agent because he wasn't automatic first choice, then Koeman would probably open the door for him and made sure it slammed on the backside on the way out.
Tony Abrahams
177 Posted 18/07/2017 at 09:23:18
I remember Jonjoe scoring past your grandson in the Scottie league, when he was about 8 years of age, Dave, and playing for Custy's.

He played a year above himself then and that's when he first went to Everton, little did we know that the kid would end up a World Cup winner!

Who knows how this season is going to go? But if Kenny doesn't play, he will need to get out on loan, like Phil says, because otherwise I'm sure the kid will be thinking "What's the point?"

Do think that Jonjoe, is made of the right character though, and I'm sure once he gets his foot in, then he will go from strength to strength. He might have to fill out a little bit for the Premier League, like Mike says, but he's very good defensively and always tackles his full weight.

Tim Sharpe
178 Posted 18/07/2017 at 09:23:35
”Sorry, if he's not good enough for Spurs, Man City, Chelsea, Man Utd, Arsenal or Liverpool, then he's not good enough for Everton. It really can and should be that simple."

Deulofeu wasn't good enough for us, but is good enough for Barcelona to buy back (even if its a gamble to sell on for profit in a couple of years). It's a funny old game innit.

Just because we have money, does not mean we should whizz it all over the wall; it's a sensible signing. Premier League experienced international, on a free, even if he is cover, or competition for Holgate, Kenny and Coleman. With Europa League, we need good depth and cover, and he provides it. Look at how long it took Oviedo to recover, and Li Tie was never the same player when he came back from his broken leg.

James Watts
179 Posted 18/07/2017 at 10:14:59
John (#169) & Bob (#170).

I've seen him the flesh three times I think I worked it out as. I normally get to about 4 Southampton games a season as my friends who have season tickets give me a shout if they can't make it, so I head down there for a weekend now and again – well, I did before moving to Australia.

Anyhow, one particular game I saw him in was against Sunderland. Think the game ended 1-1 – Van Dijk got a last-minute equaliser from memory. Southampton were pretty poor throughout but I remember the right back being particularly bad. Several times he got into good crossing positions only to either smash it too long or skew it out. I also thought his positional defensive play was highly suspect and kind of reminded me of a first year Coleman (in defensive play only I might add). I made the comment to my friends that he's shocking.

Now, fast forward and I didn't remember that in all honesty but, after we were interested in signing him in January, my friends relayed the information back to me on who he was (after my enquiry to them: "Who is that?") and it all came flooding back.

The rest of my anti-Martina post is based off the same friends' opinion as well as the majority view of the fans I've looked through on forums and other social media.

I do believe fans normally have a very good idea on players and they generally fall into 3 categories. The majority will either love a player, be ambivalent or do not rate him. This guy falls into the latter, no question.

I really hope Kenny takes his chance and we don't have to sit through Martina, week-in & week-out. I guess we'll find out soon enough!

ps: One player I thought was excellent that season when I saw them play was Mane. I was gutted when he signed for them!

Sam Hoare
180 Posted 18/07/2017 at 10:25:43
I'd rather we had bought Jairo Riedewald who looks to be heading to Palace for £9m which (in this crazy transfer market) is good value I think. He's more of a left-back but has played right-back a few times and looks a good footballer from what I've seen. He could have understudied Baines and offered cover on the right if Kenny proved not up to it.

Nevermind; let's see what you've got, Cuco...

Carl Taylor
181 Posted 18/07/2017 at 11:59:19
So many experts on here, it's incredible how they aren't part of the scouting network for the club. Thank the lord that the club scouts/management team go by more than 'the one game I saw him play' or 'my mates who support his old team think...'

We would never have bought Tim Cahill because he was awful in a Cup Final for Millwall – or Mikel Arteta because it was only in Scotland he looked good – or Lukaku because he missed a penalty in the Super Cup.

Get a grip, that the management do their job and lets see what happens when they pull on the jersey. Then we can all form an opinion and debate the crap out of it.

Welcome on board to Martina and good luck if/when you play for the mighty Blues.

Sam Hoare
182 Posted 18/07/2017 at 12:04:45
Carl, if you don't want to hear people airing opinions on players or other things that they often have only a passing knowledge on then what on earth are you doing on this thread? Or on a football forum in general? Silly, sanctimonious sausage.
Erik Dols
183 Posted 18/07/2017 at 12:14:15
Sam (#180), Riedewald never played right-back. I would like to give Riedewald a shot at just 9 mil but he simply is not suitable for the right-back position. Not even "just for cover".

Furthermore I think Riedewald is mentally not the strongest, not a winner mentality. Prone to clash with Koeman. Riedewald only played a small role in Ajax's campaign last year for a reason. Will frustrate fans a lot when he goes missing in games, not something you want from a defender. On the other hand, still only 20 and bags of potential. May be the step up to the Premier League gives him the push he needs to fulfill that potential.

Martina is quite clearly cover for the right-back position, someone with a positive attitude, who will not complain when he doesn't make the squad for weeks in a row. Professional player. And most probably cheap compared with British equivalents.

With Riedewald you buy an left-back or centre-back and a big question mark, which could turn out to be a great buy. With Martina you buy an right-back who will deliver exactly what you expect, little upside potential but little downside potential at the same time. The two lads are in more than one sense incomparable.

James Watts
184 Posted 18/07/2017 at 12:48:44
Carl (#181). Assuming you're referring to my post. It's always been my opinion about this guy. This is the place to air as such. No?

Don't you think the stance of 'Koeman knows him so must be okay' is just as flawed as what you point out? He has hardly had a stellar record from when he's been in charge of transfers has he?

And again, in my opinion, our scouting team have had very little input on Martina. Simply because he hardly played for Southampton last season. This is purely a Koeman pal signing, á la Stekelenburg.

And I don't rate him from a number of factors which I've documented if you look through this thread and any other about him. Some posters seem to agree. Others don't. That's cool. That's what make this place fun.

I'm not normally a moaning mini and have been very happy with all our signings up to this one. Anyway, enough on Martina from me. You'll see. Just don't come bleating on here when you see for yourself.

Ernie Baywood
185 Posted 18/07/2017 at 12:58:03
Sam (#182) "Passing knowledge" would be an improvement on this thread. I'm struggling to believe how many avid Southampton watchers we have on here!

It's a definite 'wait and see' for me. Low risk, not really a big deal.

Sam Hoare
186 Posted 18/07/2017 at 13:08:12
Erik (#183), my mistake, thought I'd read somewhere that he'd played right-back for a time for Ajax or one of the Dutch youth teams. Too much useless (fabricated) transfer gossip floating around my head!

Either way, the die is cast but I have a feeling that Riedewald might leave a better Premier League legacy than Martina, time will tell.

John G Davies
187 Posted 18/07/2017 at 13:14:18
Koeman has hardly had a stellar record when he has been in charge of players?

That Mane you mentioned earlier, James?– £11 million.
Van Dijk? – £13million.

Not bad.
Unless they were forced on him by Les Reed. 😁

Steve Ferns
189 Posted 18/07/2017 at 13:25:44
I don't think you can force anything on Ronald Koeman, John!

I know he was instrumental in getting to have a Director of Football type, but it was clear from the Klaassen signing comments that this was Koeman's signing; he had scouted him, and he wanted him.

James Watts
192 Posted 18/07/2017 at 13:40:08
John (#187). I would say they would have been Les Reed signings as they were signed around the same time Koeman joined weren't they? Just a guess though.

I think Koeman is a good manager but my point was he is hardly fallible when it comes to signing players. No manager is. I just think it's silly to say one argument is crap with the come back argument being 'Koeman has seen him play'.

We know Stekelenburg was defo his signing and wasn't Koeman in charge of Valenica when he went on a spending spree, resulting in them fighting off the bank and being near relegation trouble by the time he was sacked?

Alan J Thompson
193 Posted 18/07/2017 at 13:40:40
Ray (#159); The point is that Koeman seems to be getting rid of (possibly not all by choice) players with more than enough ability to take on and beat opposition players. Also, I don't like managers who bring in mediocre players from previous clubs. It didn't work for Martinez and I don't believe it will work now.

It was noted that Martina played 25 games for Koeman at Southampton. Now, I could be wrong and I haven't checked but that sounds like the first half of a 38 game season. If so, why didn't he play the full season and why was he not used at all the following season? Does give the impression that those who say he isn't that good may have a point.

It appears that we will have a workman like side without any flair which seems odd for a manager who played at club and international level with one of the games greats, Cruyff, at his peak who ran those sides. To me, this bodes for a repeat of finishing 6th or 7th but not troubling the sides above.

I don't want this posting to become a marathon but straight forward honest Ron doesn't strike me as such, certainly not in the differing ways he handles players.

Andrew (#176); That 19-year-old has been getting rave reviews and was part of an U20 World Cup winning team and deserves first bite as Coleman's replacement. Given Koeman's treatment of players, if the kid spoke up for himself then Honest Ron probably would do a Barkley on him. Do you not think he deserves first go or will you wait until the manager has something to say on his performances? Just as well Unsworth had a game in charge for 18-year-old Davies to take his chance.

Steve Ferns
194 Posted 18/07/2017 at 13:45:49
Alan, I am led to believe that Martina was backup for Koeman's Southampton, then came in due to injury and kept the shirt. As for the following season, Puel clearly preferred the first-choice right-back, Soares.
Alan J Thompson
195 Posted 18/07/2017 at 14:00:17
Steve (#194); Thanks for that; I wasn't sure if he played the first or the last 25 games but I think my point is valid whichever way as both those managers obviously saw him only as a back up and I'm not sure that is what we should be looking for.

Anyhow, I hope he comes in and proves to be a world beater but I've got my doubts about it. Whatever, I still would like to see Kenny get first chance and would really appreciate a world class creative midfielder.

An old question but who was the defensive element of the Holy Trinity?

Steve Ferns
196 Posted 18/07/2017 at 14:09:55
I think he will be an old-fashioned utility player. He says on the club site that he can play right-back, left-back and in midfield. Curiously no mention of centre back.

As for the Holy Trinity, well before my time. But my dad led me to believe that they could all play, and all put their foot in. I think Kendall was the more defensive of the trio, and Bally was more attacking. But I'll leave it to the experts.

Winston Williamson
197 Posted 18/07/2017 at 14:11:21
With Jonjoe Kenny playing a full Championship-winning season last season and a World Cup winning summer, Koeman may have in mind that Jonjoe may need a rest during the course of the season!

Factor in that two of current centre-backs have a combined age of 66 years (susceptible to injury), you start to see why Koeman has opted for a cheap, reliable and flexible squad player.

Holgate can cover right-back in short bursts, but over a long season? He looked uncomfortable on occasion last season.

So, welcome Cuco – we may come to rely on his flexibility.

Don Alexander
198 Posted 18/07/2017 at 14:15:06
Howie was excellent at tackling, Bally took pressing and harrying in the opponent's half to new levels, and Colin was, well, sublime.
John G Davies
199 Posted 18/07/2017 at 14:22:10
No, James, they weren't.

One a couple of months into his start and one the next season.

Steve Ferns, you probably know but I was displaying the lowest form of wit.

Simon Jones
200 Posted 18/07/2017 at 14:23:56
A lot of posters are referring to "back-up for Coleman" as if he is a couple of games away. We could be without Coleman for months, he might even struggle to come back, so surely you make a signing like this, either expecting Martina to play regularly, or Koeman will play Kenny, and this guy is the experienced back-up to Kenny, giving the lad a chance to be rested as he makes his way in the first team.

Then say Coleman does return from injury, you have experienced cover for him, or a young player itching to take the starting position from him. Signing Martina on a free, a player the manager already knows the strengths and weaknesses of, makes perfect sense to me. I know the club have splashed a lot of money about recently, but surely Koeman still has to work within a budget?

Alan J Thompson
201 Posted 18/07/2017 at 14:33:05
Steve (#196) & Don (#198); That's exactly how the discussion / argument in the pub ended, all those years ago.

I remember after a season's opening game at Old Trafford that all Man Utd's players agreed Colin Harvey had it all. Now, why don't we at least try for someone like that, someone who can and does play at both ends of the pitch.

[Takes tablet and lies down.]

Dave Abrahams
202 Posted 18/07/2017 at 14:33:34
Ball, Harvey and Kendall, three great footballers who contributed all over the pitch in a great Everton team, with Ball scoring at a good rate and was the vocal point of the team, even though he wasn't captain.

I loved Kendall who could tackle, great passer of the ball... I would say he did more in defence than Harvey even if he scored a bit more than Colin who, as Don (#198) says, was a brilliant player to watch. He and Howard got one cap between them which was a crying shame.

Great to watch the three of them in a wonderful period of Everton's history and sadly only Colin left.

Ray Robinson
203 Posted 18/07/2017 at 14:59:38
Alan (#195), thanks for the reply. I think we might just have to disagree.

I don't think Koeman is trying deliberately to get rid of flair players. He sent Deulofeu out on loan because he wasn't up to the rigours, physicality and pace of the PL (and then Barcelona exercised the buy-back) and he offered Barkley a new contract (which hasn't been accepted). So no deliberate policy to get rid of flair players in my book.

Also, he is bringing back one former player as a backup, utility player – not like Martinez with Kone, Alcaraz, Robles and McCarthy, so it's not as though he's making a habit of bringing back former players – indeed, he had an agreement with Southampton not to poach them.

Our difference of opinion all hinges on whether or not Martina is "mediocre" or worse. In due course, you could well be right but I'm going to wait to pass judgment yet and I will trust Koeman meanwhile. Martina might turn out to be a good asset and may only have been a reserve at Southampton because they had some one even better. Doesn't necessarily make him a bad player.

Alan J Thompson
204 Posted 18/07/2017 at 15:10:54
Ray (#203); I think we are up to three of his former players; Stekelenburg, Schneiderlin and now Martina. Not sure about Klaassen but it is starting to get a Dutch feel about it which harks back to Hohohoulier and the Spanish Waiter across the park.

And bloody hell, Ray, I'd just taken my last tablet!
Dave Wilson
205 Posted 18/07/2017 at 15:44:13
John (#199)

Many a true word spoken in jest.
I think Managers take far too much credit (and blame) for a lot of these signings. Things have moved on since the days when managers were solely responsible for the coming and goings of players. They are seen just as much as business transactions as team building.

On the signing of Virgil Van Dijk.

"The Champions League had an effect on the moment of release, which we were aware of, so it was about keeping our focus and doing our due diligence before eventually getting him over the line. We've had Virgil in our system for a long time and have explored the possibility of signing him in previous windows. This year, we had a really strong opportunity to do it" – Les Reed.

Jay Harris
206 Posted 18/07/2017 at 15:44:44
If this was the only signing we'd made, I could understand some of the sentiment... but come on, lads. A backup squad player with Premier League experience on a free. Why all he negativity?
Mike Gaynes
207 Posted 18/07/2017 at 16:03:17
James (#161), that would be the ideal outcome for me. Kenny proves to be a full-time starter capable of holding the position well enough to cause controversy when Seamus comes back, and Holgate becomes part of our regular centre-back rotation. And we never see enough of Martina to find out who was right.

And hey, don't you just love 200 posts in less than 24 hours on a third-choice right back? Damn, this club is generating some serious interest, isn't it?

Erik Dols
208 Posted 18/07/2017 at 16:04:10
Alan (#204), Just some nitpicking.

Klaassen and Koeman have absolutely no history together. Of course they are compatriots and I do believe the signing of Klaassen is approved by Koeman to say the least, maybe even initiated by him. Klaassen himself said he talked with Koeman before the move, but I also think I read somewhere that Walsh rated Klaassen highly as well.

Martina is not Dutch, he is from Curaçao, a constituent country of the Kingdom of the Netherlands. ;-) He is captain of the national team of Curaçao in fact.

I don't disagree with you entirely and Koeman has an elaborate history of getting players from his former clubs actually. But never to the extent of Houillier or Benitez at our neighbours. Martina is a typical example of getting in former players for squad depth. I reckon Klaassen and Schneiderlin were approved by the whole technical set-up seeing the fees involved. Not much wrong with me.

Mike Gaynes
209 Posted 18/07/2017 at 16:04:13
Alan J (#193):

"Given Koeman's treatment of players, if the kid spoke up for himself then Honest Ron probably would do a Barkley on him."

Oh, brother.

I don't use emojis, don't believe in 'em, but if I did, I would be posting the one with the eyes rolling. About ten times. I think I just detached my own retinas on that one.

Alan J Thompson
210 Posted 18/07/2017 at 16:14:03
Mike (#210);

Seems I might not be the only nitpicker on here but, if you think that all players have been treated in the same proper manner, then we most certainly disagree.

John Hughes
212 Posted 18/07/2017 at 16:30:38
Eric (#209) – according to Wikipedia, Cuco Martina was born in Rotterdam, Nederland.
Will Mabon
213 Posted 18/07/2017 at 16:43:07
The Barkley treatment is there to be seen. It was also "said" earlier in the season that Deulofeu's critique of Koeman's tactics had gone down badly, and caused him to be dropped. Then we had Lukaku being rather over-praised in public.

Not the slickest of man-management so far.

Henrik Lyngsie
214 Posted 18/07/2017 at 17:04:20
Interesting move this. Koeman must have a lot of faith in Martina.

Coleman is out for at least half the season. Holgate was chosen before Kenny last season. And Holgate is not a very good right back. He is okay defensively but offers absolutely nothing going forward.

Kenny might have bypassed Holgate now, but I will find it hard to believe that Koeman splash £100 million in a transfer window and then plan half a season with a young and unproven Kenny.

That seems far too risky for a guy like Koeman. So I think Martina is first choice until Coleman is back.

Mark Taylor
215 Posted 18/07/2017 at 17:39:52
We needed some experienced cover at right back given Seamus is out for a long time. Personally I would have preferred we went for someone like Sagna on a short loan but I think we have to give Koeman the benefit of the doubt.

However, it is true to say that, notwithstanding the early transfer excitement, our net spend thus far is a net zero, with about £95m coming in and the same spent. I think if we end up in that position, we will all have the right to be disappointed and that remains the case if we have to sell Barkley for £40m in order to get Sigurdsson. Still a net zero investment.

Still 3 gaps to plug for me on top of what we've got: left back cover (could be an up and coming youngster to understudy Baines), a striker (the trickiest one) and an inside forward/winger, where I'd like to see an upgrade on Mirallas. This assumes that Barkley stays and is regarded as an attacking midfielder (we have a surfeit of defensive ones).

Erik Dols
216 Posted 18/07/2017 at 17:54:50
John (#212), my nationality is not the same as my country of birth either, goes for most of my family. Those don't have to correspond.

Of course Martina has a heavy link with the Kingdom of the Netherlands but he does not consider himself Dutch. It's like calling a Welshman English. Or to be more precise, calling a Welshman born in Liverpool English.

Again, I know I am nitpicking and that it is besides the point.

Dave Speed
217 Posted 18/07/2017 at 18:02:01
Henrik (#214) makes a good point but I think that Jonjoe could be tried and Martina can come in quite quickly if it didn't work. Just a point about going back for players – Mr Phenomenal went back to a relegated team to harvest their 'best'.

Apart from McCarthy they were all crap, not surprisingly. Mr Productivity went back to a team that finished near the top of the table, so there is no real justification for judging Martina on that point. It might not work, but then loads haven't for many teams.

If Martina proves to be rubbish, and I think we all agree that we hope he doesn't, then saying "Don't come crying to me, I told you so" doesn't carry a lot of weight.

Tom Bowers
218 Posted 18/07/2017 at 18:08:14
This could be a good signing if only because it's a freebie. The lad has experience and can help do a decent job along with Holgate and Kenny until Seamus returns especially with Europa games and the league cup etc.

It would be very interesting to see what Koeman considers his strongest starting eleven for the beginning of the season and later when the injuries have cleared.

The mind boggles at the prospect of selection even now with all the players available to him including Barkley when ''fit'' for the first Europa League game.

Nigel Johnson
219 Posted 19/07/2017 at 00:27:13
I think this is a good sensible signing – Kenny can not be expected to come in and play every match until Coleman is back. I think Kenny will have someone, week-in & week-out, to learn from.

The first 5 matches are high pressured matches and you need some experience to get through them. I have a funny idea that Koeman might even play 3 at the back for those big matches and use Kenny as a wing back.

James Flynn
221 Posted 19/07/2017 at 12:14:02
Interesting that Martina is the only signing at right-back. Does Koeman think Martina, Holgate, and Kenny among them will give the team what it needs at that position?

In my heart, I'm one of the wishful thinkers hoping Coleman will be back and the same as before. In my head, that Seamus Coleman is finished. After all, he suffered that injury just 4 months ago and will be 29 years old come October.

Who really believes he'll be back full-on anytime this season? I don't; not from a double leg break on a player whose game revolves around sprinting up and down the flanks over and over, game after game. Even without the leg break, Seamus has been a regular running those sprints for, what, 7 seasons now? He's getting to an age when his legs would start rebelling anyway.

Love Seamus as much as the next Evertonian. But I have to start with, "He's finished" and work my way back to thinking wishfully of his full return in the 2018-19 season.

It's looking like Koeman has decided to make-do with the trio available at right-back this season, and see how it goes. Holgate or Kenny makes the position his own, fine. In the meantime, Walsh will have his scouts on the lookout for an incoming next Summer.

Mike Dolan
222 Posted 19/07/2017 at 15:13:30
Martina is a good fullback who, by his presence, will give the back line more in-game flexibility. Jonjoe I should imagine will be brought in slowly in situations that will build his confidence. If only we had that luxury when blooding the young Ross Barkley or John Stones or even Wayne Rooney for that matter.

Everton are going all out to break the top four; the days of sticking these kids into the first team for sentiment just to see what happens are behind us.

I'm sure that, when Jonjoe is the best player on our books in his position, he will get the game time he deserves.

Peter Mills
223 Posted 19/07/2017 at 15:27:19
I'm currently on holiday in Croatia. Just had a pint with a Southampton supporter who said, "That Cuco Martina is the most fucking shite footballer I've ever seen."

I promised I would pass on his analysis of the player to TW.

Steve Ferns
224 Posted 19/07/2017 at 15:36:45
James, if Everton (Koeman, and the medical staff) had any doubts over Coleman, then they would have reconsidered his bumper new pay rise, and they would be signing a top class right back. The fact that they have done neither tells me that they are confident he will be back as good as before.

Coleman was back on his feet quickly, he's been attending functions, he's been doing lots of light training, and there's no whispers of problems whatsoever.

It was a horrific injury, but perhaps it looked far worse than it is, and medical science has come such a long way now.

The problem I always foresaw was mental. Would you be prepared to dive in again knowing that if you get injured again that could be it? Would you be fully committed to a lung bursting run where an opponent is about to dive in on you? The fact that the lad is as hard as nails, and comes from a Gaelic football background where this is only a "knock" gives me a lot of hope.

Also, Seamus seems to genuinely love the club, he's clearly been touched by the affection we the fans continue to have for him; he's commented on how we still sing for him even though he's not playing, and I believe he will want to repay us.

Shane Corcoran
225 Posted 19/07/2017 at 15:42:48
Peter, I've been told something similar by another Saints fan, albeit one who doesn't attend any games.
Dave Pritchard
226 Posted 19/07/2017 at 15:50:36
Cuco is the new Romelu in terms of disagreement and thread length.
John G Davies
227 Posted 19/07/2017 at 15:51:59
I'm on holiday in New Brighton and a Southampton fan just told me he's better than Dani Alves.
Rob Halligan
228 Posted 19/07/2017 at 16:10:24
A Southampton fan better than Dani Alves?

Nah, not having that John!!

Shane Corcoran
229 Posted 19/07/2017 at 16:30:02
Tony Hibbert is a closet Southampton fan?
Mike Gaynes
230 Posted 19/07/2017 at 16:55:22
Peter (#223), had a pint in Dubrovnik myself a couple of years ago... with a dozen members of the Croatian national U-23 team sitting at the next table!

Enjoy your vacation.

Mike Gaynes
231 Posted 19/07/2017 at 16:57:43
Steve (#224), bravo and amen.
Brian Williams
232 Posted 19/07/2017 at 17:01:11
John (#227).

What crime did you commit to get that punishment, John?

John G Davies
233 Posted 19/07/2017 at 17:02:22
He's not even got as much pace as you, though, Rob, according to some on here.

(Martina, not the Southampton fan.)

John G Davies
234 Posted 19/07/2017 at 17:04:26

I failed my English test, grammatically all over the place according to the tutor.

Got away with a suspended sentence....

Brian Williams
235 Posted 19/07/2017 at 17:13:56
How long in New Brighton, John?

Harsh penalty, whatever you did! :-)

Peter Mills
236 Posted 19/07/2017 at 17:15:25
Cheers Mike.

John (#227), I'm yearning for New Brighton, it's so hot here and the all-inclusive is sheer hell.

John G Davies
237 Posted 19/07/2017 at 17:15:33
Didn't see him, Brian.

Is he the Chinese defender we are linked with on NewsNow?

John G Davies
238 Posted 19/07/2017 at 17:17:03
You should get AC, Peter.

I've got it in my tent.

Brian Williams
239 Posted 19/07/2017 at 17:17:13
Nooooo, that's One hung low.
James Flynn
240 Posted 19/07/2017 at 18:04:09
Steve - (224) - Nope.

The Club said the new contract was already agreed, just not signed before the injury. So they'd honor it. It was reported in here and discussed.

Good on the Club.

I'm 100% in on the hope that Seamus will be back this season at full throttle. Doubt it though, especially given what makes Coleman valuable; a relentless, sprinting, work ethic. Can't see that happening this season. Neither can you. It's simply too much to ask.

That in the context of the Club only signing a squad-filler, Martina. We'll see which one of him, Holgate, or Kenny emerges to make the position his own.

John Smith
242 Posted 21/07/2017 at 17:50:29
A lot of paper talk lighting up right now saying Van Dijk wants to leave Southampton.
Brian Wilkinson
243 Posted 24/07/2017 at 21:06:11
Anyone who watched Jonjoe Kenny playing for England and Everton U23 know that he is a like for like player for Coleman – great at getting forward, crossing and also defending on the right. Playing Holgate or Martina there is sheer madness when you have a player who can do a better job in his natural right back position.

Good to have Martina as cover, but no way should he or Holgate be starting ahead of Kenny at right back.

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