Double injury update
Eyebrows were raised when Barkley was left out of the squads that travelled to Tanzania and the Netherlands this month but it appears as though reports of his groin injury were correct.
Reports say that the midfielder will be out for around four weeks as speculation over his future continues to swirl.
Tottenham Hotspur continue to be linked with a move for Barkley but have been put off thus far by Everton's valuation of the player.
Chelsea and Manchester United are said by parts of the media to be interested in challenging Spurs for his signature while the Daily Mail (together with local Liverpool media) have contested assertions made in The Mirror that Barkley is demanding wages of £150,000 a week.
Meanwhile, Funes Mori could be out for the rest of the year following a setback in his recovery from a knee injury.
The Argentine made an aborted return to training earlier this month where it appears as though he suffered a relapse of the problem that required surgery earlier this year.
Paul Joyce of The Times has suggested that Funes Mori will be out for between six to nine months after going under the knife for a second time.
Reader Comments (211)
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1 Posted 19/07/2017 at 19:26:29
2 Posted 19/07/2017 at 19:28:04
3 Posted 19/07/2017 at 20:04:19
4 Posted 19/07/2017 at 20:06:45
5 Posted 19/07/2017 at 20:07:57
6 Posted 19/07/2017 at 20:13:56
7 Posted 19/07/2017 at 20:14:43
8 Posted 19/07/2017 at 20:15:34
9 Posted 19/07/2017 at 20:29:17
10 Posted 19/07/2017 at 20:30:27
They would be paying top money for a player who misses pre-season at a new club and first 8 to 10 matches, not worth it considering he only has 11 months left on his contract. Groins can be slow to heal.
11 Posted 19/07/2017 at 20:36:07
12 Posted 19/07/2017 at 20:42:42
A couple of years ago, I would have been really anxious at the prospect of losing two such talented players. But now, I'm not as bothered.
And the whole situation has changed with Everton. No longer the poor relations with the rich history. As has been said on here before, no one is bigger than the club. And as I've previously said, the sooner the better. COYBS
13 Posted 19/07/2017 at 20:46:13
I can see him seeing out his last year and then negotiating his own signing-on fee with another club this time next year.
14 Posted 19/07/2017 at 20:48:32
Does he really not get on with Koeman's constructive criticism in the public domain, and would like to find another manager who will call him 'phenomenal' all the time?
Does he think the reason he has been frozen out from England, is from plying his trade with his boyhood club and not with the ‘so called' Big 6?
Hi best mate John Stones did not play in the Euro's for England, but then moved to Man City and despite less regular club playing time, is back in the fold.
Does he think he needs to show Southgate that he can play with Alli and Kane in the same team week in week out, to get back in the England setup?
Did he see Romelu Lukaku get offered £150k per week in a bumper contract, and think he deserves the same?
Does he not want to stay in Liverpool, after being punched in the face after a night out?
Does he want to wait to sign a new contract, later on in the transfer window, after we have done some good business and shown our ambition in the transfer market? Here's hoping..
I want him to stay, he's inconsistent for sure and incredibly frustrating sometimes, but he excites me and is one of the players I root for every game because he is blue through and through (well was?) and can turn a game on its head in an instant; that cross for Rom vs Leicester at home last season was the cross of the season in my view.
15 Posted 19/07/2017 at 21:02:19
I admit it's ironic that just as the revolution has started, it's the time he's chosen to up sticks. But it doesn't matter. Koeman's not convinced about him. And neither are a lot of us.
16 Posted 19/07/2017 at 21:10:49
I imagine it will be a simple option of sign the new contract or play with the U23s until you come to your senses and sign it. Sounds harsh but tough shit. If Ross loves Everton like he says he does, then the last thing he should want is for us to lose out on £30-40 million.
Losing him for nought really is unacceptable. To have trained and nurtured him since he was 11 years old and then lose him for nothing cannot be allowed to happen.
I still think he will go this window.
17 Posted 19/07/2017 at 21:18:53
I predict now he'll be with us until January. Who knows, maybe some playing time next to Klaassen will make the lights go on.
18 Posted 19/07/2017 at 21:23:10
The perfect outcome for me is that he stays at Everton and slots beautifully into a team that now complements his massive skills. Ross could be a key player for us in this new set up and score and assist in goals as I believe he has the talent to do.
19 Posted 19/07/2017 at 21:29:20
20 Posted 19/07/2017 at 21:47:32
21 Posted 19/07/2017 at 21:55:25
Groin strain, my jacksie... he probably had both legs down one leg of his Y-fronts.
22 Posted 19/07/2017 at 22:00:36
Strange one this.
23 Posted 19/07/2017 at 22:02:21
I believe Ross could be revitalised by the influence of Rooney and without the requirement of having to comply with the one-dimensional tactic of feeding Lukaku.
24 Posted 19/07/2017 at 22:11:40
Meanwhile, it will be another season of pitiful debate, to see if Barkley fulfills his huge potential or not, and no doubt the manager will be to blame if he doesn't.
Just hope the speculation doesn't affect the morale of the whole team as it seemed to last season.
25 Posted 19/07/2017 at 22:12:41
Erm... Barkley has required the surgery for nine months but Koeman forced him to play through it... then blamed him for reduced pressing...?
26 Posted 19/07/2017 at 22:24:01
27 Posted 19/07/2017 at 22:42:53
That's unfair on Lukaku. His position was very clear. He happened to be a professional sportsman who was good at striking the ball from close distance, occasionally driving past a despairing defender or offering a mediocre range of flicks that sometimes might work. Unfortunately for him, the only place he could utilise these assets was in a team sport.
So Lukaku made the big sacrifice to wear the same colour shirt as 9 other far inferior sportsmen and be a footballer... sorry, 10-yard striker. He was stunned to learn that there were players tackling, heading, chasing about, passing and using trickery. He soon decided these lesser players in the team he happened to be registered to should use their confusing, overly excessive and time-consuming skills to eventually give him the ball.
He wrote down the co-ordinates of exactly where on the pitch he expected the ball to come to him and this soon became the focus of the pre-match talk. When he discovered it was not legal for a team mate to pick the ball up and then roll it to his feet, he frustratingly requested that they kick it but, if it was not the exact pace and spin and to the co-ordinates he required, there would be hell to pay.
He was also disgusted to learn that the other lesser players in the team could not activate a vortex through which the ball would pass thus circumnavigating the pesky opposition players.
28 Posted 19/07/2017 at 22:45:33
As for everything else, people are too easily being carried away by the fact we are spending money. Up to now that is simply the Lukaku receipts which should have been at least £20 million more.
Hopefully Koeman's new recruits will be a better bunch than last year.
29 Posted 19/07/2017 at 22:48:07
How could he pass a medical anywhere, whilst recovering from surgery?
30 Posted 19/07/2017 at 22:52:04
31 Posted 19/07/2017 at 22:57:15
32 Posted 19/07/2017 at 23:04:20
33 Posted 19/07/2017 at 23:04:50
34 Posted 19/07/2017 at 23:09:08
35 Posted 19/07/2017 at 23:29:17
With no transfer fee involved, Ross and his agent will cash in massively when he eventually leaves, his agent will make sure of that.
36 Posted 19/07/2017 at 23:56:11
Is Koeman going to give him the treatment he has given to other players he doesn't favour? They normally do better without him at other clubs.
Koeman has made a lot of signings, but he has not proved he can manage and progress Everton. He definitely didn't last season. Is he capable of changing?
37 Posted 20/07/2017 at 00:07:35
38 Posted 20/07/2017 at 00:11:12
I may be wrong but, as he's over 23, doesn't that mean we won't get any compensation either?
39 Posted 20/07/2017 at 00:18:20
If Everton fail to keep Ross by failing to offer him what they offer Sigurdsson, it'll be the worst piece of business ever.
40 Posted 20/07/2017 at 00:33:42
41 Posted 20/07/2017 at 00:38:31
I always felt he wouldn't leave us until near deadline day as we know Levy won't pay top dollar and would leave it as long as possible... so what has really changed?
42 Posted 20/07/2017 at 00:47:56
Ross might have 'potential' but is far too inconsistent to warrant a huge wage like that. Sigurdsson is not worth £50m agreed but as far as wages go, hes worth more than Barkley because he is currently a better overall player and he will deliver more on a consistent basis.
Although, to be fair, hasn't Barkley denied that he's asked for that much anyway? It's all fun and games, eh?
43 Posted 20/07/2017 at 00:53:01
44 Posted 20/07/2017 at 02:28:09
For us, it would shift focus to new players. He's given us 7 good years. Good luck to him.
45 Posted 20/07/2017 at 03:44:43
Finish the season, rest for two months, light jog for the cameras, groin surgery.
46 Posted 20/07/2017 at 04:04:32
Ross and sprinting don't normally go together so maybe his groin got confused as it has never really been needed before?
47 Posted 20/07/2017 at 04:18:00
I've always maintained despite all the hoop-la that Ross and Rom were the players holding the club back.
48 Posted 20/07/2017 at 04:18:40
49 Posted 20/07/2017 at 04:59:22
Presumably as an English make-weight?
50 Posted 20/07/2017 at 05:59:06
Good luck to the lad, what ever happens. If any of the top 6 buy's him, they won't be paying much. He will be a bench warmer, impact sub?? Nope they will require his service to stop us getting the best from him thus stopping us reaching top 4...
See you in a few years, when you come back and Everton are still also-rans best of the rest and all that.
51 Posted 20/07/2017 at 06:04:12
ouldn't it be amazing to see an Everton team with Rooney, Baines, Barkley, Davies, Kenny and Dowell? With Pickford, Keane, Williams, Gana and Sandro supporting this 'Blue core'?
52 Posted 20/07/2017 at 06:20:06
However, the reverse side of that coin is – Rooney moved and won a massive amount of kudos and loads of trophies – then came back. I can do the same!
The problem is, Ross, talented though he is, does not have Rooney's talent and may move to become a bit-part player elsewhere.
What Rooney can influence him to do is stay and deliver his potential to his home-town club.
I fear, however, that Ross will only see the glamorous side of leaving.
53 Posted 20/07/2017 at 07:13:12
54 Posted 20/07/2017 at 07:33:20
I don't believe for one second Everton value him at £50 million. We've all seen him and he's never worth anything like that. The club probably value him a lot less but know Levy is a tight arse and loves to think he's had a bargain. I would take the first serious offer which I think will come in the last day of the window from Spurs.
He needs to leave before this turns poisonous because, if we don't get the results early on despite out fixtures, the finger will be pointed at him and his effect on the dressing room whether he plays or not.
This is not a Rooney situation in terms of us desperate to hang on to our local hero because Ross is never going to reach the heights we all knew Wayne would. The sooner he goes the better, he cost us nothing so let's not die in a ditch over this issue.
55 Posted 20/07/2017 at 08:21:49
56 Posted 20/07/2017 at 08:40:29
It is true that, for whatever reason, he has had a few off games, and there seems to be a problem between him and Koeman but, on the whole, he performed to a good standard last season.
If we do land Sigurdsson, I would still keep Barkley. Other top teams don't sell just because they buy; we need a squad.
57 Posted 20/07/2017 at 08:50:02
There's no point developing a player any further if he will probably leave and you have other players that you could give his spot to. You're either with us or you're not if Ross thinks the grass is greener somewhere else, than let him go.
58 Posted 20/07/2017 at 08:50:59
6 months on the bench or in the U23s won't help him in a World Cup year.
Go now or sign, but don't let this drag on to Jim White Day.
59 Posted 20/07/2017 at 08:58:04
60 Posted 20/07/2017 at 09:06:00
61 Posted 20/07/2017 at 09:28:07
I have been frustrated with the whole Ross situation and was happy to see him go for the right money (£40-50 mil) but I think some of the comments on here are a bit harsh. I think any proposed move is now dead in the water , we should try to keep him.
I also feel after Lukaku's sale we are in a big transfer deficit and from the new ambitious board I fully expect (Ross's sale or not) to see a £50m attacking midfielder and and similarly priced striker, before start of the season otherwise I feel the optimism of the early transfer window will die out and we will bob along in or around the Europa League places again this season.
If only we knew what his gripe is? Money? Club ambition? Koeman?
I think some of the comments questioning his IQ (lack of a brain etc) are underhanded, If the criteria to be a successful or respected modern footballer was intelligence, we would be hard pushed to put together a Premier League 5-a-side team.
I hope the lad recovers and finds, when fit, he is slotting into a team that is riding high in the Premier League.
62 Posted 20/07/2017 at 09:32:40
I think the deal is very possible before the deadline; lots of haggling between Everton and Spurs before the deal is finalised...
63 Posted 20/07/2017 at 09:53:16
Just my opinion but I would correct you:
Ross does not have Rooney's heart or his football brain.
64 Posted 20/07/2017 at 09:57:01
65 Posted 20/07/2017 at 10:01:58
£50m was never realistic. If this came from the club, I must have missed it. And we've read that terms have been agreed with Barkley. So it's a question of haggling about the fee most likely. Very likely around £25m, which is more realistic in the circumstances.
So the question is: Does Levy have a history of fartarsing around and trying to get a deal? Like he did with Pienaar, both ways.
My bet is he is waiting until as late as he can to try and get him on a knock down fee, maybe below £20m including add-ons. The surgery may encourage him.
Personally, I hope he gets his eye wiped and Barkley ends up elsewhere.
66 Posted 20/07/2017 at 13:08:43
67 Posted 20/07/2017 at 13:13:28
Speaks volumes to me that Spurs, Chelsea, Man Utd and even Arsenal showing interest in Ross but no-one other than us and Leicester particularly vying for Sig. He's okay for sure – but not worth the money being asked IMO.
Looking at some of the names and valuations being bandied about, if Ross could put in a good season and he still makes overtures to moving away, we could be looking at easily £60m odd (at today's prices). Hopefully though, he will be helping us to a Champions League placing by next May.
And as an aside – 66/1 for Everton to win the league is well worth the punt.
68 Posted 20/07/2017 at 13:17:52
69 Posted 20/07/2017 at 13:20:02
70 Posted 20/07/2017 at 13:35:52
Looking at it purely commercially, why not pay him another £20k a week (cost = £1 million for the year) and get him to sign a three-year contract? You could then sell him for around £30 million in 2018. This gives £29 million in profit, as opposed to rock all.
It could create a wages ripple effect with other players admittedly, but £29 million would pay for more than one or two ripples.
71 Posted 20/07/2017 at 13:44:03
72 Posted 20/07/2017 at 14:01:17
You can't have it both ways, so send the Walker money this way.
73 Posted 20/07/2017 at 14:10:49
74 Posted 20/07/2017 at 14:26:25
"Speaks volumes to me that Spurs, Chelsea, Man Utd, and even Arsenal showing interest in Ross."
Really? I believe we have ZERO bids for Ross. Absolute nonsense to say they're all interested.
75 Posted 20/07/2017 at 15:32:28
Mark Anderson – Barkley has been taking the piss and will continue to do so while he is still at the club. I don't go in for sentiment in his case. He's not showing any, is he? He can / will do a Rodwell.
Up yours, Ross; good riddance when you do go. You've pissed on EFC too much.
76 Posted 20/07/2017 at 17:12:28
Koeman is still learning his trade as a manager; only time will tell if his public stance over the Ross situation was good or bad. Personally, I don't give a fuck The whole of football is madness.
Ross, if you do read TW, take it all with a pinch of salt and do what's best for YOU.
77 Posted 20/07/2017 at 17:15:06
78 Posted 20/07/2017 at 17:22:35
79 Posted 20/07/2017 at 17:46:48
80 Posted 20/07/2017 at 17:48:47
81 Posted 20/07/2017 at 17:50:44
Plus the player's not very likely to sign "any old contract" if he wants to leave as it would make his leaving more difficult (costlier for the buyer), for two
82 Posted 20/07/2017 at 17:53:34
Damian does an offer have to have been made to confirm a club's interest? I should have said "allegedly... blah blah", but no smoke and all that.
83 Posted 20/07/2017 at 19:18:48
He seems like a bit of a bighead, and I wouldn't be surprised if he's put a few noses out of joint much like when his own nose got put out of joint.
84 Posted 20/07/2017 at 20:40:59
In my example, the player in question would be “treated” to an extra million a year, and then allowed to go a club prepared to pay his transfer fee, if that's what he wanted.
I am not quite sure what other players would find objectionable in this. It is not as if modern footballers are unaware of the part played by commercial interests (largely their own interests, admittedly).
I will be interested to see if anyone takes up Alan's challenge (#79). On the general question of the treatment of players, and former ones who have fallen on hard times in particular, I suspect Everton's record is as good as many and better than most.
85 Posted 20/07/2017 at 21:05:42
He has had Boys Pen Bill and Moshiri down his earhole for the past month and he still wants off... so he will NOT sign a new contract.
It is on the club to ensure we get a good deal and try not to strengthen rivals in the process which is why some posters are suggesting we let his contract run down and put him with the U23s for a season.
86 Posted 20/07/2017 at 21:21:00
Why would a player's agent allow his client to sign a contract whose sole purpose is to tie him to a club in order to attract a higher transfer fee? The whole point of waiting to become a free agent is to present yourself to an alternate club without impedimenta so that some of the money that would have been spent on a transfer can be used to pay the player (and his agent) more.
Barkley clearly has a poor relationship with Koeman and wants out. That is understandable. I can respect that. It's harder to understand why a manager of his presumed talent would choose to alienate a player of Barkley's talent and potential.
87 Posted 20/07/2017 at 21:29:55
88 Posted 20/07/2017 at 21:35:55
89 Posted 20/07/2017 at 22:07:15
As my father would say, he's got ideas above his station and should know better!
Take the £20M and push him out the door it's better than nothing which could happen next year. Part of me still thinks he has been ill-advised by his agent and he should have taken the deal he was offered and not to try patience of the powers-that-be.
90 Posted 20/07/2017 at 22:07:35
91 Posted 20/07/2017 at 22:10:59
Just a thought there is life outside of football, even for footballers.
92 Posted 20/07/2017 at 22:24:46
Guy's been at Everton since he was about 8 so can't be surprised if he wants to see something else. A club like Spurs is big, challenging for the right things and are in the Champions League and miles away from the idiots who gave him grief.
Personally, I think it's best for club and player to part and I really wish him the best if he leaves. (Not sure if he has the football intelligence to make it big but that's just imho.)
93 Posted 20/07/2017 at 22:29:29
Ross is a rare talent who hasn't quite made it yet but the chances are that in a good side he will and that is why Spurs, Man Utd and Chelsea are all hovering around like vultures hoping for a bargain. Ideally it will be with us though, he is a lovely lad, a Blue through and through and would be a prodigious talent with good management and in the right team. I believe that Everton are actually working hard to keep him.
I desperately hope he stays; him staying costs us nothing and Sigurdsson, who isn't fit to lace Ross's boots, is a £50 M cost. What a disastrous bit of business that would be.
Constructively criticise him by all means but remember that he cost nothing. At his best, he is a world talent and we must aim to get him to approach or meet that level consistently before wiping our hands of him.
94 Posted 20/07/2017 at 22:31:38
95 Posted 20/07/2017 at 22:33:59
96 Posted 20/07/2017 at 22:46:19
Sign the contract and leave in 12 months if things aren't working out. We get a decent fee and Barkley gets a move to club that genuinely wants him instead of seeing him as a commodity like the penny counting Levy.
I honestly don't believe Spurs would be in for him if there wasn't this situation with his contract. They did the same thing when they pulled are pants down with Pienaar. Maybe Ross should get on the blower and ask him if the grass was greener at Spurs.
Clive (#94). C'mon, Rudi's post wasn't that bad. A bit of an OTT reaction there. Rudi's views represent those of a large contingent of Everton supporters who are a bit miffed with Ross. They're just different from yours and that doesn't make them any less valid.
97 Posted 20/07/2017 at 22:46:52
Before anyone says "young English talent; Giroud is 31", I would fully agree. The fact is Barkley will not sign his contract, we either lose him on a free, take a much lower amount, or swap for a player we would probably pay £20-£25 Million for.
98 Posted 20/07/2017 at 23:08:18
World class players do it every week, and work hard with & without the ball – Ross doesn't. He slows down the play, is ponderous, turns one way then the other, picks the wrong passes etc etc. This has been done to death.
If he was that good, every team in Europe would be after him, and so far I haven't seen a single bid for him!
99 Posted 20/07/2017 at 23:14:40
100 Posted 21/07/2017 at 01:01:20
As far as I know, Ross, Koeman, Everton and Gylfi have said very little, apart from the latter, who was quoted by Swansea as saying "My head is not in the right place" or something. Very simply, we have no idea of what is being said and by whom. Also, the fees are being 'vivisectioned' to death.
If we lumped things in pairs it all looks different. Put Gylfi in with Ramirez and we get told that it was £56m for the pair then we would be quite chuffed. If we then said Lukaku and Barkley went as a package for £110m there would be celebrations and back slapping all round.
If we then said that we could get in all the business we have done so far, and then got Gylfi, Giroud (as an example), left defensive cover and whatever else we need for a total outlay of, say, £60m to £70m of Mr Moshiri's money (if it is), then we would all be even more chuffed than we are now.
Just remember that we are often getting worked up over paper talk that covers itself by using phrases like "it is believed", "it is suggested that" or "we have it on good authority", which are literally a license to make up what they want.
As I said at the start, we are kept in the dark and we must wait for things to pan out. By all means speculate and offer opinions as it is great reading ideas that I haven't even thought of, but I don't think it's fair to rip someone apart (like Ross) based on what someone claims to know about why he is doing what he is doing.
I would finish by saying that, if Ross failed to agree a new deal and didn't sign, putting him in with the U23 team or not giving him a locker (Niasse) would lower Everton to the level of some other teams. I think that he should play or not play based on his training in the week and how he does in games that he plays, just like it should be with any player. It would just be spiteful to do otherwise.
If he left next summer for the compensation price then I believe that putting him in with Lukaku and saying that they went as a package for £93m or something like that would still be seen as good business.
101 Posted 21/07/2017 at 01:24:25
No. I do think that it can be used to show targets that we are now an affluent club with a lot of financial clout to spend money all round to bring the project to fruition.
If in 2 or 3 years we have established our credentials in the Champions League and Premier Leagyue, then the top players we would then hopefully be in the market for may be staying over at the Titanic Hotel and looking out their windows at the nearly completed stadium. To be told that at the start of the next season they would be part of the historic team to run out first wearing Royal Blue? That would be something more tangible and just might be the clincher.
102 Posted 21/07/2017 at 02:46:58
You are right that post was shameful. Unfortunately it is far, very far, from the most shameful post you will find on TW. Check out some of the scrofulous nonsense posted about Tim Howard to name just one example.
103 Posted 21/07/2017 at 09:08:50
There is a lot of sense in your post and, as you say, none of us really know what is happening behind the scenes. However, Dave, if Ross hangs on until the end of this coming season, I don't think Everton are due anything in compensation as he will be over 24 by then, so Everton will not receive any compensation.
104 Posted 21/07/2017 at 09:27:31
My point is that this is not to Everton's advantage commercially. We should do all we can to avoid Barkley spending the next nine months sitting on his arse drawing a salary, and then walking away on a free. Another club then has a player they can sell at £30 million plus.
Jay (85) – you may well be right of course. Ross sees little game time under this manager and wants out regardless.
Peter Fearon (#86): “Why would a player's agent allow his client to sign a contract whose sole purpose is to tie him to a club in order to attract a higher transfer fee?”
It would not be presented in this crass manner of course. It would be sold as a salary increase (with the agent getting a cut). I suspect few agents are working other than on the basis of parochial self-interest. The logic of your position leads to no agent ever encouraging a player to sign a contract with their current club.
105 Posted 21/07/2017 at 09:35:57
I expect Lukaku to do well and score a lot of goals this season personally. I think Ross would do well at Spurs though it might take him longer to settle. Basically I think they are both good and that we would miss them both.
108 Posted 21/07/2017 at 10:00:07
109 Posted 21/07/2017 at 10:17:51
And just like every such player, better consistency often goes hand in hand with the team doing better overall. Since we're supposedly improving as a team, then I would be hopeful of Barkley being more consistent, with his more brilliant performances occurring more frequently.
So, I hope Barkley stays. However, I wouldn't bet money on it. We don't know the reasons for a new contract not being signed. But what I do know is, if my employer constantly assessed my performance in public the way Barkley's has been, I might be tempted to think, "Sod you, I'm off," just because I could.
110 Posted 21/07/2017 at 10:40:20
The reality is that players who run down their contracts and thus 'earn' a free transfer, often demand a huge signing-on fee in lieu of what it might have cost the buying club. Campbell and Cole initiated this practice when they left Arsenal all those years ago.
You can be sure the agents get their usual 25% out of these deals. (50% if you manage the likes of Pogba!)
111 Posted 21/07/2017 at 10:57:02
113 Posted 21/07/2017 at 11:01:44
I'd be gobsmacked, and not in a good way. Would be an awful signing in an area we don't need anyone. That and of course the arrogant way he acted on deadline day last year when he laughed after being linked with us.
114 Posted 21/07/2017 at 11:04:52
A loan gives us a chance to see if he can make up for the snub last time and, if not, then we lose little. On the other hand... Nah, he can rod off!
Hope the rumour of Arsenal's interest in Barkley is true. Giroud and £15m will do for me.
115 Posted 21/07/2017 at 11:21:12
We need to show some self-respect and tell this useless fucking mercenary to fuck off!! The Toon fans, and now the Spurs fans all universally agree that he is a selfish piece of overrated dog turd.
So it's a yuuuuuge NO from me.
116 Posted 21/07/2017 at 11:21:26
117 Posted 21/07/2017 at 11:25:45
118 Posted 21/07/2017 at 11:26:40
119 Posted 21/07/2017 at 11:54:00
● Starred for France in Euro final.
● Signed for £30m in a fanfare.
● Pocchettino obviously rated him to sign him from under our noses.
● Didn't set the world on fire with Spurs.
● "He has failed to live up to expectations" says Pocchettino. ● Exit stage left coming.
● Not good enough for Spurs.
● Started only 8 league games last season.
The grass is not always greener.
120 Posted 21/07/2017 at 11:57:58
121 Posted 21/07/2017 at 12:03:10
122 Posted 21/07/2017 at 12:46:29
As for Ross, he has often been criticised on these very pages for his lack of consistency, so along comes a manager who is honest and tells him that. Same manager starts to get something from Ross in terms of playing ability so I don't understand the current stand-off.
I think that Ross was certainly influenced by Lukaku... I don't think it is a coincidence that they both came out with similar statements. "Want Champions League Football" "It's not about the money etc."
Maybe he feels it has gone beyond the time when he could sign now; we don't know. We only know that one way or another it needs solving before September. If not we'll have another year of talk. He will replace Lukaku.
We need another striker and I think that is it hopefully!
123 Posted 21/07/2017 at 12:49:58
He really needs to buck up and apply himself.
124 Posted 21/07/2017 at 13:05:14
Getting the feeling you don't want him then, Col?
125 Posted 21/07/2017 at 13:16:54
Sure he can turn it on in the Euro Final which ultimately was a big shop window for him. But day to day in training he has a bad lazy attitude.
The way he treated us, I would ask him to come to Liverpool for talks only to find a room full of cardboard cut outs of Koeman and Big Dunc with a big banner on the wall saying "Fuck off".
126 Posted 21/07/2017 at 13:25:42
His agent at this point in time has royally screwed his career.
I just can't understand his motivation for leaving. Unless it boils down to the fact he won't play for Koeman anymore.
127 Posted 21/07/2017 at 13:58:57
"Everton Football Club would consider re-signing the 43-year-old Nick Barmby 10 out of 9 times before ever considering to touch Sissoko with a ten-foot pole!"
128 Posted 21/07/2017 at 14:06:48
This is on him and him alone – he wants to pick up more money elsewhere sitting on the bench of either Spurs or Arsenal. He is disloyal and I can't understand it with him.
Lukaku scored a lot of goals in the past couple of seasons and had options to lead the line for big Champions League sides who will win him in trophies.
Barkley has been inconsistent, has not been among the best performing attacking midfielders in the Premier League, and will become a squad player in a better team.
129 Posted 21/07/2017 at 14:22:19
There are stories circulating that, if the price drops below £20 million then Jose will take him. From the perspective of a Chelsea, Man Utd, Arsenal and to a lesser extent Tottenham paying £20 million or even less for a quality English talent is a bit of a no-brainer. They get a player with the potential to be a first team regular who could prove a ridiculous bargain for them or at worst a useful player they can rotate into the team now and again, and warm the bench.
The most pertinent point from Ross's point of view should be though that, at £20 million, he will be easily expendable and he won't get many chances if he does not hit the ground running. Ultimately my fear is he won't play much, his confidence will be shot and then it turns into a Rodwell-esque nightmare for him.
If it the case he wants out of Everton, I think West Ham or Newcastle would be more sensible destinations. I really wish him all the best a wonderful player and undervalued by Everton and too many Evertonians. Let the kid be instinctive and exciting rather than a good percentage player.
Ultimately in 10 or 20 years you won't remember how we did in the league particularly in any season but you will remember magic moments and players. Let him be that he can be.
130 Posted 21/07/2017 at 14:31:46
131 Posted 21/07/2017 at 15:05:40
Is he a poor player, no, he's best in age group at every England level and a full international. Like hundreds of others though he is trying to reach his full potential in a tough league and he may well not do it but if moving is a way to do it then he must try it.
We should wish him the best of luck as a Blue and model youth and pro. There is a fair chance though that he will reach or approach his massive potential and if so, or even if he falls short, then it should be with us and I hope the club persuade him to stay.
Lukaku has been in stunning form for Man Utd.
132 Posted 21/07/2017 at 15:23:44
133 Posted 21/07/2017 at 15:39:50
As it stands, we've nurtured the lad for years, made him into an England international and we might not even get a penny for him in transfer fees, so why should we wish him any luck? He's mugged us off.
134 Posted 21/07/2017 at 15:46:05
And I totally disagree that Lukaku has been in stunning form.
I have watched all of the games he has played in and Bamford looked far better.
Lukaku's usual weaknesses were in evidence throughout offside and poor ball control as well as untypically missing a couple of sitters. Okay, he scored but against very poor opposition. He did nothing to convince me he is the real deal.
135 Posted 21/07/2017 at 15:57:56
If it were to come out in the future that Koeman had treated him very badly, to a degree that other players subsequently said the same, would you still say he has "Mugged us off"?
You don't know what's gone on behind the scenes, Trevor. From what you do know that's been seen in public, who has behaved with the most respect toward the other of Koeman and Barkley?
136 Posted 21/07/2017 at 16:01:29
Everton didn't make Ross into a very good footballer did they? For me, they only guided him on the way with a view to benefitting from his talent.
I've rarely seen such natural talent in a player and while he hasn't yet made that final crossing into real top class, he still has the potential to do so. Remember he lost nearly 3 years with a very bad leg break that must have had a big psychological effect on him.
Is Ross the only Everton player who has left without winning us a cup or not performed at the level we fans irrationally expect of them? Of course not, so why pick him out of hundreds for criticism.
If we don't get a penny for him then the club has mugged itself not been mugged by Ross. They stated very clearly that he sign the new contract or be sold so now they have to sell him. They have backed themselves into a corner in a position where Ross holds the aces. He owes Everton nothing other than to have met the terms and conditions in his Contract. He's doing nothing wrong by wanting to better himself and move to a new job.
137 Posted 21/07/2017 at 16:20:38
You are doing everything in your power to defend Ross, that;s cool and fair dos.
I'd ask if you are that behind him you'd acknowledge by the standards you set for him, in 4 years in a team better than most Premier League sides, why he's not realised his potential?
Don't argue he has such a high ceiling and make a defence for him at the same time.
Ross is a good player, and can produce moments that many players could not reach even on their best days.
That was true before Koeman as well as after his arrival. The decision to realise his potential is with Ross and he has not achieved that at Everton.
The standard of players is good enough for him to flourish; absolute nonsense to suggest he needs better players to become the player he should.
He has in four years not defined a position for himself. He is a positionless wonder who drifts in and out of games.
Let's say your arguement about better players holds water, then why not sign and stay? Everton have improved their squad and will look to continue that. Have they not?
A player who did hold promise has in my mind run out of steam. He just happens to be an Evertonian.
138 Posted 21/07/2017 at 16:27:25
139 Posted 21/07/2017 at 16:52:13
It's a wonder we managed to keep any of those players as long as we did. If Barkley leaves, best of luck to him. He's got a career to look after, which possibly comes first, well before the interests of EFC or Ronald Koeman.
I remember the way EFC treated Alan Ball, and Alex Young before him. Given the way they've handled Barkley in such a publically open way, if I were him, I'd be minded to let the management know what I think of them, then further my career elsewhere.
140 Posted 21/07/2017 at 16:52:51
In fact, its not only him.. there are many that would welcome Ross Barkley playing well in a good team. The fact is he has played for 3 totally different managers who all viewed his talents and use differently. Play back, play forward, play wing, fill the hole, play striker, defend more, etc, etc..
So now he has Koeman who clearly has little love or affection for the player, just another tool in the toolbox to use if needed.
I would also say how dismayed I am that so many TW contributors have decided to echo that ex-editor of the Scum who initiated that Ross is dim... lights on, no-one home.. on just what basis do any of you have the right to make that claim? What justification?
The lad has said nothing, repeat, nothing regarding Koeman, his contract, what he wants, in short what the problem is... yet so many jump on a bandwagon to condemn.
It's not surprising should he want to leave given the comments here and with Koeman, I hope he stays and makes a lot on here eat some humble pie, but even if he does it will be surprising if he gets to play.
At some point we will find out the reasons, but as Linda said (as I said too a while ago), I believe Lukaku was in Barkley's ear all the time, misery loves company and boy was Lukaku stirring it..
141 Posted 21/07/2017 at 16:52:59
Not good enough for Spurs but good enough for us, eh, Frank? Do me a favour...
142 Posted 21/07/2017 at 17:00:39
You use your post to say all those people making claims about Barkley have zero proof of their claims. Then you turn around and make a completely unsubstantiated claim of blaming Lukaku for Barkley's situation. Not even separate posts, same post.
Come on, now. Where is your proof now that you were so quick to admonish others for reading into Barkley's refusal to sign a contract going into his final year?
143 Posted 21/07/2017 at 17:16:49
I'd love to see Barkley playing consistently well in a good Everton team. I've stopped expecting it and am tired of seeing the raft of excuses as to why a footballer doesn't produce the goods on the pitch.
He isn't signing the contract. That says to me he wants to leave. Fine. Let him and let's bring in players who are talented and able to use that talent consistently.
144 Posted 21/07/2017 at 17:18:01
Secondly I made reference to Linda's comment, of which I agreed based on the obvious friendship on the pitch and comments allegedly attributed that mirrored Lukaku's.
145 Posted 21/07/2017 at 17:18:02
However, I also believe Christine is also right in saying that many of the derisory comments about Barkley are without any substantiation or justification.
These are two separate issues. Your criticising Christine for the first is simply a diversion from the second, which is an important issue raised by Christine by virtue of the fact it is reiterated so many times on TW.
Regarding those who deride Barkley's intelligence, what's that old saying about casting the first stone?
146 Posted 21/07/2017 at 17:18:29
At the same time as defending him, Martin, please stick to the facts regarding Ross's leg break. He broke his ieg in October 2010 and was able to join the first team in pre-season training for the start of the 2011-12 season which is a lot less than you state, three seasons you said, it might have took him three seasons mentally to get back to where he was, but he was playing in the first team a lot sooner than that.
Christine (#140), you say Ross has played in numerous positions for Everton, well he hasn't learned very much from those experiences. A really good player would take everything in from playing in different positions.
You also say you are not surprised he would want to leave, given the comments about him on ToffeeWeb and the way Koeman has treated him but, as you say yourself, no-one really knows what has gone on. Koeman has criticised Barkley two or three times, with valid points and Ross has improved under the manager.
Christine, Barkley is 23 going on 24 and I know we do not all have the same temperament, but he should be able to take a bit of stick, whether it is in private or in public.
147 Posted 21/07/2017 at 17:25:13
Maybe so but that's not the point I (or you) made. We anyway have an idea of the various opinions from this forum, for one source.
148 Posted 21/07/2017 at 17:30:28
"The lad has said nothing, repeat, nothing regarding Koeman, his contract, what he wants, in short what the problem is... yet so many jump on a bandwagon to condemn."
Then: "At some point we will find out the reasons, but as Linda said (as I said too a while ago) I believe Lukaku was in Barkley's ear all the time, misery loves company and boy was Lukaku stirring it."
So, you believe Lukaku was in his ear yet have no knowledge at all about this being true. In other words, "The lad has said nothing, repeat, nothing regarding" Barkley. Yet you felt free to claim that he's responsible. "Boy was Lukaku stirring it".
If you're going to make unsubstantiated claims pulled only from your imagination don't go after others when they "jump on a bandwagon to condemn" for reading into the situation themselves.
149 Posted 21/07/2017 at 17:30:45
I don't know the reasons for his failure to sign a new contract; at the moment, no-one does... but before we kick him into touch, it would be nice to know; alas, there is stick which is justifiable and some which is not.
I would love to see him playing to his full potential in an Everton team but I doubt it will now happen and, for whatever the reason, it's disappointing but does not justify personal abuse regarding his intelligence.
150 Posted 21/07/2017 at 17:34:08
I love what Ronald has done for the club since his arrival, but no one is perfect. Dealing with multiple prematurely wealthy young men all challenging each other for positions can't be easy. Mistakes will be made.
Mistakes, however, are not the same as rank bad behaviour. I suspect Ronald has been guilty of this in the case of Niasse and Ross. I say suspect, because, like everyone else I am responding to media messages and doubtless don't have the full picture.
Whatever the background, the public treatment of Niasse has fallen well short of professional courtesy. No need to go into details. I feel the same, perhaps to a lesser degree, may have happened to Ross, because there in (I believe) he wants to leave Everton other than he is fed up of being pilloried in the media and given no support by his manager. In fact, Koeman's ultimatums that a player 'must be sold if he does not sign a new contract beggars belief. He has a contract, still in force, that he can work too. Theoretically and practically in every legal sense.
Good manager, say it like it is instead of blowing smoke up arses, does not excuse the sheer bloody minded, illegal arrogance of the man, and (I suspect) Ross has just said to himself, "Bugger this for a game of soldiers, I'm off to lead a normal footballers life instead of being on the receiving end of Koeman's mood of the moment."
The case of Niasse is even more extreme where any good lawyer would highlight his career has been stymied by how Everton (Koeman?) have treated him.
There is something rotten in the state of Goodison over both these issues and it may well come to light over time.
152 Posted 21/07/2017 at 17:36:27
I fully agree with your point about his personal intelligence. It's stupid criticism based off of nothing. His vision and decision-making on the pitch? That's another matter. But people saying he's dim and slow, completely ridiculous.
I wanted him to stay but I also don't think he's progressed. The fact that he won't sign a new contract says all I need to know, that he doesn't want to be here. The reasons why? Who knows. But he obviously doesn't want to continue to apply his trade here.
153 Posted 21/07/2017 at 17:41:39
With respect to my unsubstantiated comments re Lukaku and Linda's comments which I agree with based on as I said, their friendship on and off the pitch. One unhappy player can sway another, that's all the comment was and I agree with Linda that there might be truth in that.
As both points are about Barkley, I did not see the need to separate, as I am sure as Stan said, they are intertwined
154 Posted 21/07/2017 at 17:44:18
Read what I said again.
155 Posted 21/07/2017 at 17:44:43
156 Posted 21/07/2017 at 17:50:12
157 Posted 21/07/2017 at 17:53:25
From December through March, he played to a decent level of consistency. Koeman made him play from the right high up the pitch. He was released from defensive duties and often used Coleman to good advantage.
As soon as Coleman got injured, his level dropped again. Now my point is Ross without the runner couldn't or wouldn't adapt to the fact his full back was never going beyond him.
That is not a difficult tactical leap. Its an example which to me highlights the lack of progress in the decision-making department. Is he really that reliant on other players? I've heard that Everton's movement inhibits the lad. Okay, fair enough, why not adapt to that and you become the movement?
"Over promised, under-delivered"?
158 Posted 21/07/2017 at 17:53:56
William, you may be right but I'd like to think it was a mix of clumsiness from Koeman, and perhaps picking the wrong method to lay down a marker of his authority. He allegedly dropped Deulofeu over comments about tactics, too. That said, he did rather emphasize with Barkley. I'd guess they fell out.
Hopefully, the club is constantly considering and improving its PR. It needs to. Moshiri himself got off to an uncertain start with the Sissoko debacle and the Jim-Whyte-is-my-buddy thing.
It's all very regrettable that one of the most undeniably talented English players of his generation cannot be managed and improved by a supposed top manager of the times, at a club now in a position to go places whoever is to blame.
I hope to never again see quality forsaken by the club, if avoidable. Reading what Stan posted earlier, perhaps unwarranted bad treatment of players has happened before and it will probably happen again. Humans, eh?
159 Posted 21/07/2017 at 17:59:32
Another point is, John, what players do now on the pitch is more defined than ever. We simply don't know to what instruction Barkley was playing. He used to run at and take on players, drive at goal. We rarely see that now. Has he "lost it" or is he told not to do it, or encouraged to be mindful of not taking risks?
160 Posted 21/07/2017 at 18:01:56
161 Posted 21/07/2017 at 18:06:47
We've only had indicators in one area though, so that's getting the lion's share.
162 Posted 21/07/2017 at 18:12:12
It's money about £30k a week's worth of money.
163 Posted 21/07/2017 at 18:12:59
"It's all very regrettable that one of the most undeniably talented English players of his generation cannot be managed and improved."
"I hope to never again see quality forsaken by the club..."
You equate talent and quality. I do not. The first does not necessarily beget the second – particularly in the case of Barkley, whose talent far outstrips his quality in my opinion.
Many fans, if not most, believe a manager chooses his side based on getting the best players on the pitch. In fact, the manager chooses the side he thinks will be the most likely to win the game – and that's not always the 11 most talented players. There were extended stretches during the first half of last season when our results were better without Barkley than with him, and I recall some striking examples of his being subbed off and the level of the team's performance improving instantly and obviously.
As John (#157) points out, Barkley became a significant contributor for a while when Koeman moved him up right and defined his role more clearly. But the simple fact is that, for whatever reason, Barkley was unable to maintain that level of quality. He has always been unable to maintain it over time.
Whether he stays or goes, I'm convinced that Barkley's talent has taken him as far as it can. The only one who can achieve the necessary step up to consistent quality is the player himself... and I have come to doubt that he can.
164 Posted 21/07/2017 at 18:21:33
I would hope we could all agree that, from EFC's point of view it'd be far better to keep Ross, to give him chance to pick up his game in a much more fluid and skilful team rather than spend his time trying to find an isolated and much less mobile Lukaku. I'd like to see a manager play him as a forward or just behind so that his defensive and midfield distribution weaknesses are mitigated and he can use his amazing skills to finish with either foot or head to maximum effect.
I defend Ross but hopefully in a justifiable way, I'm an Evertonian and as far as I can see there is no case against the lad based on anything other than conjecture and conspiracy. I blame Koeman's aggression and arrogance (often needed as a manager) far more than anything Ross has done. Ross is far more introverted and they are like opposite poles.
Christine, social media is in many ways a bad thing as it depersonalises discussions and encourages polarisation as we look only for things that we agree with and which reinforce our beliefs. I'm sure that if we met we'd find that we have far more in common than we disagree on. I'm 66 and saw my first game in 1956 or 57 and I believe you also go back as a great Evertonian. We have great memories of the good times and despair over the majority of the time when we were in the shadow of the best.
Be patient, Christine, our time is coming and Ross needs to have a chance at least to be part of this wonderful Renaissance. No club has built a successful side and a completely new ground at the same time and it is our destiny to become the first. I've seen the future and it is blue.
Best wishes to all.
165 Posted 21/07/2017 at 18:24:38
And I'm no doubt a bit biased... I've always favored players whose quality surpassed their talent, the two most obvious being Tim Cahill and Phil Jagielka. Just my built-in prejudice.
166 Posted 21/07/2017 at 18:27:23
The player who believes in himself would challenge the manager with his actions on the field. My example highlighted his lack of defensive responsibility and that in itself tells the lad he can roam and drive at players?
Surely even Koeman doesn't tell the lad not to take risks in the final third? Because I saw plenty of times he did.
And if he does then perhaps we have the root of the standoff, and I thank you!
That's Barkley 101. Thanks for listening!
167 Posted 21/07/2017 at 18:34:44
Mmm. That made me rethink. Good point, Martin.
168 Posted 21/07/2017 at 19:45:12
Martin, I think it would be good for Everton if Ross sorted out his saga with Everton, signed a new contract, got his head down and continued to improve under Koeman, because as others have said there was an improvement after Christmas but it stalled later on.
169 Posted 21/07/2017 at 19:47:02
But equally, he seems to be quite a fragile character who has had a series of major setbacks, first physically while playing for England (U19), then psychologically, also when playing for England at the World Cup where, despite the universal ineptness of the squad, he was the only player not selected by the useless but malicious Roy Hodgson (England's worst ever manager).
I suspect he takes his failings at Goodison to heart too. I also strongly suspect that a dressing room poisoned by a player "much too good for Goodison" would not have been healthy for a player as susceptible to bad situations as Ross.
My guess would be that he believes that he's a very good footballer, but that, for whatever reason, circumstances have told against him time after time. The write up in the Evening Standard this week suggested that he had got on very well with Pochettino and that Spurs might be the place where he can get away from his history and start again.
Actually, I'd quite like to see him sign a 1-year extension, and then play in the same team as Wayne Rooney for a season, and then, on the basis of a season without the Incredible Sulk, see how it's gone.
170 Posted 21/07/2017 at 20:49:41
However, that's where it ends. He cannot dictate midfield play and cannot score enough goals to play upfront.
Wherever he plays he is a square peg in a round hole. 4 managers have expressed dissatisfaction with Ross's ability to adopt tactically and for me he is no better now than he was 4 or 5 years ago.
Whether it is in his head or his private life nobody knows but to refuse a new lucrative contract is a clear statement he wants away.
We have enough players who want to play for the club so let him roast on his own fire.
What I would like to know though is how Ross can claim he did not ask for £150k a week when discussing terms with Spurs when Jim White is stating there has been no approach for him.
Surely the FA have to step in and make some ruling on these players and agents who talk freely about joining XYZ club when they are under contract at another club.
171 Posted 21/07/2017 at 22:45:41
I hope Barkley gets rejuvenated, but somehow, and ironically as of now, there's no sign.
Stay, lad and start again... Blue through and through.
172 Posted 21/07/2017 at 22:52:28
173 Posted 21/07/2017 at 23:49:33
Why? There could be several possible reasons, but the real top players very seldom have a bad game whatever the circumstances.
Very hard to figure out, our Ross; he has me stumped, I must admit. He's had enough chances now though, it's time to wave him goodbye.
174 Posted 22/07/2017 at 01:23:16
That's a galling situation for any employer to be in but when the player in question has at the same time always declared himself a true blue it's perverse, and not least to many fans of the club. Why would such a player do that?
You'd have to be way thicker than a bit dim to do that and not foresee major consequences to your own probable detriment if nobody offered you better terms than those in the contract you've shunned. You'd look a pillock, as would the agent you employ, and the more so if, repeat "if", the shunned contract is withdrawn by the employer as a consequence of your non-commitment to the club's future prosperity.
Excusable as a naïve 18 year-old perhaps but when you're near 24 it's, well, a bit dim. At best.
And many of us, me included, whilst admiring his (regrettably rare) effectiveness have also commented on his consistently visible air of bemusement when on the pitch, but that's maybe only when Jupiter aligns with Mars eh? Nowt to do with him being a bit dim.
(And before anyone cites me as supporter of the Scum in their attack on him, their analogy with a gorilla was the offensive bit, together with the sweeping denigration of all us scousers, again.)
175 Posted 22/07/2017 at 01:49:50
A true blue not signing an offered contract may illustrate that something is wrong in the relationship. Doesn't automatically mean it's the player at fault.
In your post, Don, you've completely failed to address that the club or its representatives may have been at fault in some way. Also, just because the club have paid about the going rate for Barkley's services, making him a millionaire, doesn't mean they own his soul.
I guess if someone made you wealthy and then treated you poorly, you wouldn't have the gall to complain.
176 Posted 22/07/2017 at 06:39:22
The one that did make it big and left, has now come back. Apart from Jeffers, however, and until Rooney, I don't recall any of the other big clubs, in England, or elsewhere, making a huge effort to acquire those players.
Additionally, and we are all aware of the power of the press, there was never any huge media campaign to get one of our players sold to one of the media "darlings", except in the case of Rooney.
I therefore ask myself (and perhaps Ross should too), why aren't the Sun, the Daily Mirror, the Daily Mail and the Express screaming that he should be moving on to "better" his prospects?
The press cover the story, but as far as I can see are not really doing what they normally do when a truly talented player is "languishing" at a "mid-table club" when he should be playing in the "upper reaches" of the premier league.
We all denigrate the press for being journeymen journalists etc. However, they may be quite knowledgeable about the game.
It may also be, that given the circumstances above, Ross is not actually as good as, he thinks / we think, he is. If he was, the furore to move him on to a "bigger team", would have reached a crescendo by now.
After all, he is hardly an 18 year old Tom Davies breaking on to the scene, he is a 24 year old, seasoned professional, who thus far, has failed to overly impress the media.
177 Posted 22/07/2017 at 07:06:57
178 Posted 22/07/2017 at 08:15:20
I would hate for such an exciting player to become a good percentage player and effectively be "castrated" the way Ferguson did that to Giggs and Rooney great team players but with their individual brilliance redacted for the overall benefit of results.
179 Posted 22/07/2017 at 08:42:57
I believe Ross is a confidence player; when its going well he is capable of producing the goods, but somewhere along the line last season he became unhappy with someone or something. The rest is conjecture, managers comments didn't help, pressuring him didn't help, abuse didn't help, press didn't help and fans didn't help either. Everyone seemed to be turning on him.
He may lack the ability to shake off comments easily but his form dipped he lost his place and his faith in those around him.
Hodgson was spot on, he needs a club where he feels valued and a manager who can get the best out of him. Sadly, it does not appear that its Everton.
180 Posted 22/07/2017 at 08:53:29
Koeman is a smart manager but appears to have little affinity with the players, a criticism made of him at Southampton in his treatment of some of the younger players if he doesn't rate you or want you he has no time for you.
Many of you will just point to the fact that Koeman was just telling it how it was, but its a shame he didn't do that with any of the other 23 players who weren't performing either.
I think the board allowed Koeman to play it his way and Ross essentially has dug his heels in. There will be only one outcome in all of this, the manager will get his way, Ross will leave and EFC will be the worse for it.
As I say... it's all conjecture... but Koeman does have form.
181 Posted 22/07/2017 at 09:18:59
182 Posted 22/07/2017 at 09:23:44
I disagree that Barkley, had his best season under Martinez, although I do think he might have occasionally excited us more during Roberto's first season in-charge?
I watched nearly every game live that season, and if Ross had a good game one week, he was nearly always the worst player on the pitch the following match. Opinions of course, but Barkley has only started to find a bit of consistency during 2017, and only once he finds that will the kid go on to the next level.
He's playing for a manager who demands more, simply because the manager knows he's got a lot more to give, but he might/might not understand this just yet, because he's probably been told how good he his all his life.
I wish Barkley well, hope he stays, but don't think he's worth the money he's asking for. But if Everton are asking for £50 million, I can understand Ross, and his advisors, hanging out for at least £140,000 a week.
183 Posted 22/07/2017 at 09:26:04
184 Posted 22/07/2017 at 09:51:54
On Christine's point, it is disappointing to lose Ross – but in terms of the manager having discipline running through the club, it is absolutely necessary and something that brought Martinez to his knees in that terrible last 6 months. Martinez, Keegan etc are all managers that have let things go, and were rewarded with the sack. It's great when it's going well, but irreversible when results slip.
It's seems to be fairly set in stone that the ruthless / strict managers get to the top Ferguson, Lippi, Sacchi, Ancelotti, Mourinho, Capello, Scolari, Hiddink, van Gaal, even our own Harry Catterick.
If Ross is a casualty, it will be sad but I think is more of a reflection on his character, than wanting to be part of a club that now has the resources to finally compete. I hated him, but Gerrard made it a commitment that he would be the best player at training or on the pitch. That winning mentality got him to the top. It will be interesting to see if Ross gets to the top, or joins Rodwell et al players that have gone backwards when leaving us.
185 Posted 22/07/2017 at 09:56:03
186 Posted 22/07/2017 at 09:57:47
My own opinion though is that those on the gratuitously critical side of the discussions on various players, such as Lukaku, have generally been on the wrong side. I also believe this to be so for those who are so hard on Ross.
Lukaku, who was crucified by some looks like a snip for what Man Utd paid for him (at modern valuations), he's a Rolls Royce of a striker who I'll back for at least 25 goals again this year and maybe a title.
Barkley may or may not make it to the very top but he's towards the top even now. He isn't rubbish by any standard and if the press is to be believed all of the top clubs are keeping abreast of developments.
We need to remember too that the number of players in his position who come through the ranks and get to the very top are rare. I can think of Dele Alli now but I don't believe he is a patch on what Ross has the potential to become. Paul Scholes was a great example but the rest have usually soared like eagles and then gradually fallen away.
We mustn't judge Barkley by irrational standards. He has no big transfer fee to live up to and has cost us nothing relatively speaking.
187 Posted 22/07/2017 at 10:21:31
I'm sure I've read somewhere that it means "at the start of the season" (to be more precise, maybe closure of summer transfer window?). A situation similar to that in horse racing were a horse's age is determined by it's age on 1st January? Who knows???
188 Posted 22/07/2017 at 10:30:31
That way, he'd remain with his "boyhood club" and end up either working under a different manager OR he'd be playing for Everton in the Champions League (qualification for which seems to be demanded of Koeman if he is to stay beyond his current contract), albeit under Koeman. A win-win for any genuine "true Blue" in my view.
189 Posted 22/07/2017 at 10:32:30
Exciting though this closed season has been when viewed against previous summers, you have only to look back to the Spurs experience after the sale of Bale when a raft of star signings failed to bed in and their 'progress' went into reverse.
Yes, I share the view that we should be capable of improving a position or two but there is no guarantee that some of the new names will be any improvement on those they have replaced. My money will, therefore, be on another seventh finish!
190 Posted 22/07/2017 at 10:48:08
191 Posted 22/07/2017 at 11:51:19
192 Posted 22/07/2017 at 12:12:43
193 Posted 22/07/2017 at 12:37:49
Your wage figure nudged me to remind myself that is £7.28m a year as opposed to the paltry £2.6m we have paid him. There any sympathy for his "terrible" dilemma vanishes.
Of course it is the reality of the market but it does no harm to occasionally give the specs a wipe and recognise the absolute insanity. It is masterful brainwashing that keeps me supporting it. I sometimes laugh for thinking of myself as a socialist!
Anyway, specs back on. Any mega signings this hour?
194 Posted 22/07/2017 at 12:43:57
It is evident in game after game that he has a poor football brain and he is mentally weak.
The lack of clubs queuing up to buy him shows how much in demand he isn't. Lukaku's career will be a success, sadly not to be continued at Everton, for whom he's done a lot more than Ross in spite of much of the poisonous criticism he's received on here. Ross's career is on a downwards trajectory his best season was in Martinez's first. If & when he leaves, his performances on the pitch will not be missed.
As for Spurs I thought they were great last season, but some of their players clearly have doubts about where the club is going Kyle Walker to Man City; Dier wanting out.
With regard to comparisons with Rodwell, I think it's fair to note that his career has been badly affected by Injury problems (particularly hamstrings) both before & after he left us.
On a general note, I think our business this summer has been very good so far however, I have a concern re our potential goals output in the coming season, & in spite of all the good feelings around the club, it's easy to be positive & happy at present.
Don't lets get too carried away, or too despondent if we get dodgy results in the first few weeks with the fixture list we've been dealt.
195 Posted 22/07/2017 at 12:58:33
What inside info do you have on other clubs not monitoring his situation. What do you know that the press don't?
196 Posted 22/07/2017 at 12:59:42
197 Posted 22/07/2017 at 14:28:50
198 Posted 22/07/2017 at 14:41:12
If you could it'd give me reason to have some hope that Ross is not a lost cause journeyman. Like you I wanted him to flourish with us but with what's going on now with his attitude in not signing I've given up on him and after his performances last season I suspect Koeman has too, and rightly so given the terms of the Champions League qualification "project".
Two seasons left of a three season mandate leaves no room at all for anyone less than 100% committed to the club.
199 Posted 22/07/2017 at 15:45:02
If Ross was really a diamond, given the situation with him not having signed his contract, a top club would have signed him by now.
Reality is, he's been over-hyped and over-rated in the media, particularly the Echo.
Regarding potential, Tom Davies clearly has it yes, he's not perfect and still has much to learn; Ross had potential 6 years ago should have delivered by now his game has not improved in 3 years, and that's down to him alone.
200 Posted 22/07/2017 at 15:48:30
201 Posted 22/07/2017 at 16:08:50
202 Posted 22/07/2017 at 20:00:29
Try Gylfi Sigurdsson, 28 in September, valued at £50 million.
Look at his statistics compared to Ross Barkley at the same age (Ross is 24 in December).
Barcelona could sign him for nothing and resell him with Deulofeu for a large profit.
203 Posted 23/07/2017 at 02:04:21
I don't want to irritate you in the least but just which player in living memory has all but reached the age of 24 and then blossomed into a player worthy of starting such matches for years, never mind the competitive ones?
It sadly hasn't happened, and I sadly expect Barkley to end up as a memorable (to Toffees fans only) "could-have-been". I wish it wasn't so.
204 Posted 23/07/2017 at 02:43:06
"... which player in living memory has all but reached the age of 24 and then blossomed into a player worthy of starting such matches for years, never mind the competitive ones?"
Are you asking what players have only realised their potential once they've reached 24+?
It might not be the norm, but it does happen. Drogba was one. Victor Moses had his best ever season playing in a new position last year at the age of 26.
Miroslav Klose wasn't exactly pulling up any trees until he was 23; Luca Toni until he was 25. Ian Wright was pretty much a nobody until Crystal Palace's FA Cup Final in 1990 when he was 26. Les Ferdinand wasn't a regular top flight footballer until his mid-twenties.
Closer to home, our own Marco Materazzi was a very late starter. Leon Osman didn't hold down a regular spot for us until he was 24.
Not much was expected of these players based on their youth careers (with the exception of Victor Moses, who was a very hot property), while Barkley has had the eyes of the world on him from a very young age.
What happens to Ross is going to be interesting to see. I'd love him to find a way to realise his potential, but sadly I agree with your assessment that his story will be one of "could-have-been". But, as long as he is one of ours, I will always live in (slowly evaporating) hope.
205 Posted 23/07/2017 at 10:51:05
It's simply futile to make predictions of how his future will pan out. It's just empty guessing, with zero information content.
It's also daft to claim that top clubs aren't interested in him. According to press reports (if you take them seriously), Arsenal, Spurs and Man Utd are interested.
206 Posted 23/07/2017 at 10:54:06
He hasn't reached his full potential yet though and that is the step he has to take; he may never achieve it but the potential is there. Even the marvellous Paul Scholes didn't reach his full potential by Ross's age.
I understand why people do criticise Ross and I believe it is frustration because he hasn't managed yet to reach his massive potential but it isn't his fault; he is what he is and it is grossly unfair to criticise him for not meeting our own irrational expectations of him. Remember though he cost us nothing so a lot of the criticism is crazy.
Enough on Ross for me as I'm in circular mode now. I just wish him the best and that it is Everton who take him to the next level and stop using the 1960s management manual based on bullying. That isn't how you get the best now.
207 Posted 23/07/2017 at 11:14:45
208 Posted 23/07/2017 at 11:26:03
Martin's "bullying management" inference is unproven but, if it's the case with Koeman, the "mollycoddling management" system exemplified in Ross's case by Martinez did zilch for his development, did it?
By the terms of his own three year contract Koeman cannot be expected to tolerate any player who won't or can't quickly adapt to his methods and Koeman gave Ross plenty of chances last season.
209 Posted 23/07/2017 at 12:48:07
What I'd like to see is quite a bit less shite being talked, whether it be smoke-up-the-arse variety or the variety that really pisses players off, and more action being demonstrated on the pitch.
210 Posted 23/07/2017 at 15:25:58
I agree. There's no excuse nowadays for managers to put their foot in it (unless intended). It shouldn't be hard to stick to relevant summary, and be realistically positive about the team without phenominalisms or petulance.
211 Posted 24/07/2017 at 01:42:45
212 Posted 24/07/2017 at 15:57:08
213 Posted 24/07/2017 at 16:17:14
I am busy in my laboratory at the moment working on a different type of shite that might do the trick.
214 Posted 24/07/2017 at 17:54:05
215 Posted 26/07/2017 at 15:16:57
All I've seen or heard is him saying in pressers that Barkley needed to improve. He improved, his form dipped and Koeman again said he needed to improve.
There may be other things done & said behind the scenes, but until I see evidence of this, I will argue that this episode says a lot more about Barkley than Koeman.
If he doesn't want to play for us, let him move on.
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