Dowell earns rave reviews on Forest debut

Friday 4 August 2017  72 Comments  [Jump to last]
Kieran Dowell began his season-long loan at Nottingham Forest as a substitute but impressed his new fans after coming on in the second half.

The young winger was one of the Finch Farm academy products that Evertonians were most looking forward to seeing get an opportunity in Ronald Koeman's first-team this season, particularly after he scored two "pearlers" in pre-season.

The Dutchman didn't feel he was ready to play regularly at the top level and Dowell was farmed out to the Championship with Forest instead.

Dowell was introduced with an hour gone and his new team a goal to the good thanks to Barrie McKay's first-half strike and he came within a whisker of doubling the lead late on with a trademark effort from distance that flew just wide.

Forest fans on Twitter were purring about their new acquisition, predicting big things for him:


Reader Comments (72)

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Damian Wilde
1 Posted 04/08/2017 at 23:29:01
Should we have kept him?
Colin Metcalfe
2 Posted 04/08/2017 at 23:36:30
Are you reading this, Koeman, you muppet! After yesterday's inept and disjointed display you go and loan one of the most talented youngsters in the country for a whole season! Nice one, Ron.
James Newcombe
3 Posted 04/08/2017 at 23:43:23
It won't do him any harm at all being on loan in the Championship. Better than the odd appearance off our bench (at best!).
Jack Convery
4 Posted 05/08/2017 at 00:20:48
I wanted him to stay and get some game time in the Premier League. Very disappointed Koeman loaned him out. Their gain, no doubt about it.
Mark Riding
5 Posted 05/08/2017 at 00:24:47

That's a link to McGeadys Twitter reviews last season.. Just saying like.

Jim Potter
6 Posted 05/08/2017 at 00:25:25
Playing regularly with Forest will be more beneficial to the lad and to us in the long term. If he can up his work rate then he'll become the player many on this site think he can be.
Mike Gaynes
7 Posted 05/08/2017 at 00:33:37
Good for you, lad! Way to step up to the opportunity. Keep working and growing your game, and like Seamus you'll have great lessons to rely on when you're soaking up the cheers at Goodison.
Mike Gaynes
8 Posted 05/08/2017 at 00:37:40
Good 'un Mark.
Joe O'Brien
9 Posted 05/08/2017 at 00:37:48
Big difference between the Championship and the Premier League Colin. Who's to say after a few games in the Premier League we'd be saying he's not up to, it's too much for him. These loans make or break a player.

We all thought Garbutt had it.. then he couldn't cut it with Leeds. Maybe Koeman knows best. I think this loan deal will be the making of him and he'll come back to us a more hardened, seasoned player.

Gordon Crawford
10 Posted 05/08/2017 at 00:42:13
The kid has real talent. If he can use it at the right times, he can be unstoppable.
Mike Gaynes
11 Posted 05/08/2017 at 01:14:47
Good point Joe (#9)... although I must say that not all of us felt Garbutt "had it". Personally I could never see anything but a left foot.

But I agree with you that this loan will make the kid. Very happy for him and for us.

Dennis Ng
12 Posted 05/08/2017 at 01:25:23
Given the reviews, it is a good decision to loan him out. Other than us the loyal fans, would anyone, let alone a seasoned manager, play a fairly inexperienced youth ahead of his multi-million and fairly well established acquisition? This bodes well for us and hopefully he will be a starter for us in years to come.
Paul Ferry
13 Posted 05/08/2017 at 02:35:26
Shame on you, Mike Gaynes (#11).

'although I must say that not all of us felt Garbutt "had it". Personally I could never see anything but a left foot'.

Did you not follow Dick Brady's scouting reports?

Bill Gienapp
14 Posted 05/08/2017 at 02:37:48
A successful loan spell can only benefit the club in the long run. This is all very encouraging.
Alan J Thompson
15 Posted 05/08/2017 at 03:57:33
Obviously Ron didn't see it every day.
Ajay Gopal
16 Posted 05/08/2017 at 04:27:24
Onyekuru, Browning, Galloway, Dowell, with a few more to come I am sure. If at least 2-3 of these go on to become 1st team regulars, the loans would have been successful. The future looks bright and blue!
Hugh Jenkins
17 Posted 05/08/2017 at 05:34:47
Some years back, I seem to remember Seamus being pilloried here and on other sites as not being Premier League standard.

A season at Blackpool, where he also earned rave reviews, seemed to knock off the rough edges.

Even when he returned , he was far from the finished product and was played on the wing, more than as a right back, at first, on the grounds that he "couldn't" defend.

Now, of course, he is established as a firm favourite with most fans, but it could all have been so different had he not had that season in the Championship.

Hopefully, this season will have the same effect for Kieran and he will return a better and more rounded player.

As Ajay @16 says, based on current values in the transfer market, we presently have potential first team loanees out that, in the future, could cost anything up to £200 million, or more, if we had to buy them in.

That is a substantial chunk of Bramley Moor paid for on saved transfer fees. After all, on current quoted values, Tom Davies, has surely already saved us £50 million.

Again, as Ajay says, "The future looks bright and blue!"

Tony Abrahams
18 Posted 05/08/2017 at 08:07:12
Koeman might be a muppet, but at least Dowell is going to be playing at a good level, which should help his progression. But what about Jonjoe Kenny?

Imagine winning the World Cup and then coming back to your club to find yourself in a bit of a limbo? This needs sorting out because if he's not ready for our first team, (I think he at least deserves a chance, especially as a wingback) then the kid has got to go out and play.

Well done Dowell lad, I'm glad you're getting a chance to go and really learn your trade, and I can imagine you must be feeling absolutely great after the summer you have just had... I hope you keep it up and come back to Everton a much more complete player.

Jamie Evans
19 Posted 05/08/2017 at 08:23:55
Does anyone know if we can end the loan period earlier than 12 months if we want or need to?
Dave Abrahams
20 Posted 05/08/2017 at 08:24:31
Thirty minutes was exactly the right amount for Kieran to make his bow with Forest. He can grow into this team and the Championship little by little. I hope he keeps progressing and working hard and learning, then he will come back to us ready to be a part of the squad. Best of luck, lad.
Martin Nicholls
21 Posted 05/08/2017 at 08:26:32
Joe (#9) – you're confusing Garbutt with A N Other! Garbutt did make it at Leeds and that's why we signed him – it was in subsequent loan spells (eg, Wigan) were he was found wanting.
Steven Scaffardi
22 Posted 05/08/2017 at 08:31:08
David Beckham went out on loan. Jermaine Defoe went out on loan. John Terry went out on loan. It didn't do those players any harm!

Plus performing in the Championship doesn't mean you're guaranteed to be a success in the Premier League. Look at Patrick Bamford when he went on loan to Boro from Chelsea. He was one of the best players in the Championship but has struggled to reach those heights in the Premier League.

Give Dowell time. This is a good move for him and will help make him the player we all hope he'll be.

Tony Abrahams
23 Posted 05/08/2017 at 08:31:55
Reading Arsene Wenger's thoughts, Hugh, he's saying that the end of the transfer market, is not that far away?

The edge of the abyss, has surely arrived anyway? And although we all want our club to spend money and do well, the older I get the harder I find it to get excited.

That's why I'm sure there is such a big clamour for Kenny to be given a go because he's a scouse kid who lives 5 minutes walk from Goodison, so will give us his heart and his soul. If he's not worth a chance at 20 years of age, then no wonder football is changing for the worse...

Matt Traynor
24 Posted 05/08/2017 at 08:31:56
Martin (#21), wasn't it Barkley who was loaned to Leeds earlier in his career – and Neil Warnock didn't think he was up to it and hardly played him?
Tony Everan
25 Posted 05/08/2017 at 08:34:37
It's early days, but the loan and game time will do him good. If he continues his development, he will be in the Everton first team for many seasons after this one.
Martin Nicholls
26 Posted 05/08/2017 at 08:47:43
Matt (#24) – it was but (childish I know!) he's persona non grata with me at the mo, so I didn't want to mention him by name!
John Keating
27 Posted 05/08/2017 at 09:12:12
Hopefully Dowell gets a lot of starts and comes back next season ready to play in the first team.

Regarding Kenny, ideally a season at a good Championship team would be the way to go but as we have no natural cover at right back I think we have to keep him here. Martina showed in the one game against the Slovakians at Goodison that he is not the part.

Mike Allison
28 Posted 05/08/2017 at 09:14:51
Neil Warnock thought Barkley was a good player but didn't know how to fit him into his team.

Dowell doing well on loan means it was a good decision to send him out, not a bad one.

Steve Ferns
29 Posted 05/08/2017 at 09:20:21
Yes, Matt. Then he went to Wednesday and scored two belters from exactly the same spot in one game and suddenly exploded.

Good luck to Kieran. I'll be following Forest closely this season. It is a good decision to loan him out and forest are a good club.

To get a game in a very strong part of our side (displacing £25m and £50m players) is too big an ask. A season on loan to show he can do it is better.

Jeff Armstrong
30 Posted 05/08/2017 at 09:52:56
Barkley was at Sheffield Wed before Leeds; he had a good spell at Sheffield and they wanted him back, but he went to Leeds and Warnock didn't rate him.

Incidentally regarding Dowell, why don't we give a 2-week notice arrangement with these loans? If we have an injury crisis or the player is ripping up trees, it's ridiculous that we have no say in taking him back. It's just lazy on our part to say "Okay Kieran, see you in 12 months." Isn't this Big Joe's job?

Len Hawkins
31 Posted 05/08/2017 at 10:17:40
If you think that this will not do him and the other loanees good then it is a very blinkered view. The youngsters can't all be put in the first team and given regular games so why keep them drifting around the first-team squad when they can be gaining valuable experience in a very competitive league.
Jon Hirshman
32 Posted 05/08/2017 at 10:19:01
Steve (#29), Ross was loaned to Sheffield Wednesday first, where he did well. He was loaned to Leeds the year after and Warnock just didn't think that one through.
Andrew McLean
33 Posted 05/08/2017 at 10:53:37
Galloway and Browning played the entire game last night for Sunderland. Galloway's strong performance is worthy of a mention.
Terry Underwood
34 Posted 05/08/2017 at 12:15:47
A season in the championship will make the lad physically and mentally tougher. Far better than playing for our U23s or reserve team.
Dave Pritchard
35 Posted 05/08/2017 at 13:16:09
God help the TW server if Dowell scores for Forest in his next match.
Stephen McNally
36 Posted 05/08/2017 at 14:24:04
Absolutely disgusted that he's been farmed out to Nottm Forest. This should have been Dowell's break through season. I reckon he's got more to offer than a number of midfielders on our books but, for some reason, Koeman is hell bent on buying players that just aren't needed.

He should have bought: Keane, Pickford, Onyekuru (one for the future) and made signing two top end strikers and a left back his priority. Did we really need Klaassen, Rooney, Sigurdsson, Martina?

I just hope has a former European Cup winner and Barcelona legend he has got a better grasp of Everton's requirements than me 😉.

David Pearl
38 Posted 05/08/2017 at 14:49:52
It's a great start for him after scoring two screamers in pre-season. He will get lots of game time and come back much better for it.
Tony Kost
39 Posted 05/08/2017 at 15:02:05
#33 and not forgetting a certain James Vaughan playing for Sunderland now. Good luck to him - maybe not quite the career we(he) would have hoped for him(self).

Given his history of injuries he has done well to be where he is at.
Kris Boner
40 Posted 05/08/2017 at 15:07:20
Christ, can we wait for more than 30 minutes evidence before deciding if he's the second coming.

I'm pretty sure we can all reel off players who have come off the bench once and looked good, only to prove average over time.

Peter Gorman
41 Posted 05/08/2017 at 15:20:24
'Second coming' are your words, Kris. To Koeman, he is just a very naughty boy.
Mark Riding
42 Posted 05/08/2017 at 15:25:36
Conor McAleny just scored. Koeman Out!
Kris Boner
43 Posted 05/08/2017 at 15:51:24
Peter, excuse the hyperbole, but some of the comments here, (see #2), and on the thread when we actually sent him out, were bordering on ridiculous.

I want the kid to go out on loan, do really well and come back with evidence that he is a top player in the making, because until now all anecdotal evidence from coaches is that he is talented but drifts out of games to easily.

Mike Gaynes
44 Posted 05/08/2017 at 16:04:32
Martin (#21), actually Garbutt was purchased out of the Leeds youth program... never played senior footy there. But yes, it was his loan spells at Fulham and Wigan that went poorly. (I didn't correct Joe #9 because I knew what he meant.)

Paul (#13), nah... just a lot of ecstatic reviews from him ("magical left foot") when Garbutt filled in for Baines in 2015.

Mike Gaynes
45 Posted 05/08/2017 at 16:07:42
Mark (#42), how do you see this stuff? Following Fleetwood now?
Peter Gorman
46 Posted 05/08/2017 at 16:25:17
BBC live reporting Mike,
Peter Gorman
47 Posted 05/08/2017 at 16:31:08
And Conor McAleny has scored twice... so both Koemans out!
Peter Gorman
48 Posted 05/08/2017 at 16:37:55
And if anyone cares; Joe Williams is on the pitch with Barnsley losing 3-0 away to Bristol, Lundstram is now on for Sheff Utd who are 1 up at home to Phil Walling's favourite club, Brentford, and Delial Brewster has now also come off the bench for Chesterfield losing 2-0 at home to Grimsby.
Mike Gaynes
49 Posted 05/08/2017 at 16:52:30
The BBC's own Peter Gorman with superb reporting. Cheers.

You know, if Giroud won't come, maybe we should put in a bid for McAleny.

Peter Gorman
50 Posted 05/08/2017 at 17:06:47
The pleasure is all mine, Mike. And Courtney Duffus came on as a late sub for Oldham but couldn't prevent a 2-0 loss to Oxford Utd, starring Ryan Ledson.

Lots of clubs to follow this season if you're inclined. If you're not, keeping an eye out for Sunderland could be a minimum.

Great shout on McAleny, I've heard he has friends and family in the area.

Daniel Lim
51 Posted 05/08/2017 at 17:13:10
Mr Walsh, please prepare a bid of £15m for McAleny. He is the solution to our striker problem.
Terry White
52 Posted 05/08/2017 at 17:34:52
The OS always has a review of how the loanees fared after the weekend.
Colin Metcalfe
53 Posted 05/08/2017 at 18:04:44
Kris, my post was a little over the top I agree , just venting my frustration at a situation where we don't have anyone with Dowell,s qualities in the team!

Both Calvert-Lewin and Dowell played together in the Under-23s and in the under 20 World Cup winning team , now people say Calvert-Lewin is a bit further ahead in his development maybe so but for me Dowell is clearly the more naturally gifted footballer and getting back to the first team we currently have Mirallas who is right footed playing on the left side.

Surely Dowell would be ideal for that position off the bench?

Terry White
54 Posted 05/08/2017 at 18:45:44
Colin (#53), as has been said many times before, Dowell may be left-footed but he plays on the right-hand side and is more dangerous coming in on his left foot.
John Crawley
55 Posted 05/08/2017 at 20:30:57
Can we stop calling him a wide player. He's a Number 10, he finds spaces between the line, plays through balls and scores goals. This is the lad who Martinez called a very special player and a rarity amongst English players because of his cleverness and vision around the box. Sure he can do a job wide but the lad comes alive when played centrally in the No 10 role.
Steve Harris
56 Posted 05/08/2017 at 21:14:20
Can anyone tell me if Dowell could've done any worse than the fat little knobhead has done the last two games? I'm sure that if Dowell would of put in the same embarrassing performances as Rooney has, he would of been hauled off after half an hour just because he was a youngster out of his depth!
Dave Abrahams
57 Posted 05/08/2017 at 21:44:30
Colin (#53), most fans who have seen Calvert-Lewin and Dowell a few times would agree that Kieran is the more naturally gifted footballer, by a mile.

However, if you have watched Calvert-Lewin since he came, only from the start of last season by the way, you can see how he has worked hard at improving his game. He's been played out of position, maybe to improve his all round game, but got on with it put a lot of effort into his game.

He wants to succeed and I can see him getting better and better. His goal the other night isn't influencing my opinion of him. I've watched him improve and it looks like he is listening to his coaches, I always tell young players "Your ears are the most important thing during coaching sessions, listen and you can and should learn."

Kieran Dowell, I've watched him since he was 16, in Everton teams, could always make you sit up and take notice, his skill is outstanding, he has, again, always made you want to scream in frustration by disappearing from the game, lack of effort in going to try and win the ball back when he loses it. I have pointed this out since I first saw him but he hasn't changed, this is his big chance at Forest, but he has to get more involved and more consistent.

Sorry for going on but I am honestly trying to help the lad with constructive criticism, really hope he makes it, especially with Everton, just wish he had Kenny and Liam Walsh's heart, what a player he would be, but nobody is that good.

Dave Abrahams
58 Posted 05/08/2017 at 21:50:47
Fuck me, went on a bit there, didn't I, nearly missed a bit of history there... Usain Bolt getting beat. Keep it short, Dave, you silly old man!!!
Mike Gaynes
59 Posted 05/08/2017 at 21:55:12
Dave, I hang on your every word, you know that. Don't leave any of them out.
Tony Abrahams
60 Posted 05/08/2017 at 22:19:40
If you don't keep it short, Dave, most people stop listening, but I'll take your admission for now, even if I've known for years!
Dave Abrahams
61 Posted 05/08/2017 at 22:28:20
Tony (#60), your grammar inspires me, £20,000 a year on your education, I've been a fool with my money.
Ed Fitzgerald
62 Posted 06/08/2017 at 01:59:14
Dowell should be starting for Everton now; instead we have wasted £150k a week on an ageing joke from Man U. I don't know what more the likes of Dowell, Lookman and Kenny need to do to get a run in the team.

I've already noted a change in posters tone on here in the last week or so, the gushing prose of many giving way to some disgruntled musings from Koeman acolytes. Christ knows what the posts will be like after five games!

And for those who accuse myself and others of being negative cynics I would opine that the complete opposite applies: I want to see young players being given a chance, I want to see Everton play attacking progressive football, some would call this romantic and unrealistic but I go the match to be entertained.

Of course I want to win things but adopting the sterile football delivered by Koeman isn't going to deliver this. To my way of thinking he is a bigger exponent of bullshit than Martinez, as Koeman never takes personal responsibility

James Flynn
63 Posted 06/08/2017 at 02:15:46
One thing not in dispute here is that the kid goes missing at the U-23 Level.

Another thing, beyond dispute, is that he's about to turn 20 and pop-sickle sticks have more muscular definition. And just a bit less pace or quickness than our Kieran. He's beating no Premier League defender, one-on-one.

This kid we need in the Club? Spare me.

God bless him and good luck. He does have ball skills and shooting ability... So did Bily.

Ed Fitzgerald
64 Posted 06/08/2017 at 03:46:54

Did you watch the Under-23s last year? I suggest you have a look at some of his goals and assists. Perhaps you want him to run around like a headless chicken, like the majority of midfielders we have

Dave Abrahams
65 Posted 06/08/2017 at 08:48:17
Ed (#64), if you've seen him then you know why it is best that he goes on loan, to toughen him up and make him realise he has got to get more involved.

You are correct, he is exciting to watch when he gets the ball, it's what he does or doesn't do when he hasn't got the ball. It's not about being a headless chicken it's about doing something to help the team, Kieran does practically nothing and watches the game go by.

Tony Abrahams
66 Posted 06/08/2017 at 09:11:42
A ball hasn't been kicked, but the natives are getting restless, I'm just glad we never swatted those Slovak's aside, otherwise we'd sound like Kopites now!

In saying that, I'm considering going to Goodison today, even though I hate pre-season friendlies, firstly because I expect Jonjoe Kenny, to be given a chance, and secondly because I want to watch us closely, to see if I can discern (£20 Grand) some kind of style.

Amit Vithlani
67 Posted 06/08/2017 at 09:28:11
Speaking of our youf team cast-offs, how are Mustafi and Dier getting on these days?
John O'Brien
68 Posted 06/08/2017 at 10:37:50
Dave 65, I know you frequently have voiced this opinion about Kieran Dowell for some time now. I respect your opinion but I think there's a danger in focusing too much on what a player isn't good at and not on what he is good at.

Yes, the defensive side of his play isn't his strength. The same could be said of Le Tissier, Ozil, Sheedy and many other flair players. I mention those 3 because Kieran reminds me a little of all 3 in different ways.

All those 3 also went missing as you put it on occasions-that's what you get with flair players. But what you also get is match winning ability.

I know how highly you rate Walshy and Jonjoe as I do but you need a balance of different styles of players in the team. You wouldn't want 10 Peter Reids and nor would you want 10 Kevin Sheedys.

I've been watching Kieran's age group in the academy since he was 12 as I am a relative of a player and he has always been the most talented player in that group. I went to the Forest game on Friday as I happened to be in the area and believe me he was outstanding and the Forest fans can't believe how lucky they are to have him.

Mark Taylor
69 Posted 06/08/2017 at 12:10:12
Of the 4 Everton players who had a reasonable amount of game time at the U20 World Cup, Dowell made the least impression in my opinion. Lookman most looked the part and I think will feature a fair bit this season, Calvert-Lewin offered a bit of pace and incision (though is also a bit lightweight) and Kenny was offensively strong, albeit less defensively sure. I'm also conscious that none of the U20 winners are even remotely first teamers for their clubs (Cook might be argued to be the closest).

I think we therefore need to keep things in perspective. We have some talented youngsters, Dowell included, but the law of averages says that it is likely only one, maybe two will actually become regulars. A spell at a decent Championship side will help determine whether Dowell is one of them.

Dave Abrahams
70 Posted 06/08/2017 at 13:22:15
John (68),

Yes, fair enough John, you have seen him longer than me so your opinion is valid, John, I have not only pointed out where I think he is lacking. I have also pointed out how skillful he is with the ball, dribbling, great at free kicks, corner kicks putting great passes to leave strikers with one on ones.

I haven't neglected any of his good points but not to point out how poor he is in tackling, tracking back and generally not helping the team out when the opposition have the ball will not help Kieran, who I hope has a great career, hopefully with the Blues.

I have got admit I would sooner have a player, in midfield, like Peter Reid or Liam Walsh than Kevin Sheedy or Kieran Dowell.

Mike Gaynes
71 Posted 07/08/2017 at 16:11:03
Mark (#69), bravo.
Dennis Ng
72 Posted 07/08/2017 at 17:07:25
Mark (#69, #71), opinions seconded.
Steve Carse
73 Posted 10/08/2017 at 17:52:38
Mark (#69), not sure where law of averages comes into anything here. Presumably Ferguson thought the same when developing his team of young prospects who famously were said to be too young to win anything.

What I do know is that Koeman is far too risk averse a manager to trust the youngsters so long as he has other options. Moyes Mk 2 in this regard.

Even worse, he is a stubborn, arrogant and unapproachable manager who will avoid if at all possible being proved wrong in his aversion to youth. Hence the next to zero prospects of Kenny being in line for the right-back berth.

His stubbornness on this particular issue has apparently become heightened in the face of the very clear rank and file support for the lad to be given a chance.

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