The 23-year-old missed pre-season after he required surgery to repair a groin injury but is back in training, along with James McCarthy, as the Blues prepare for the kick-off of the new Premier League season this weekend.
Barkley won't be involved but his manager admits that the player could now stay at Goodison Park despite Koeman's preference that he be sold this summer if he won't sign a new contract.
Barkley has been linked with Tottenham and Chelsea but there have been no formal offers for him thus far.
"Ross Barkley is back in training" Koeman said at his pre-match press conference this morning. "That is good news for him and good news for us.
"He has participated the last two training sessions but he lost a long period of pre-season. But I don't have any update.
"There is no offer on the table for Ross," continued the Dutchman who hasn't closed the door on Barkley leaving before the transfer window deadline if the right offer does come in. "That means he will stay at Everton now. What happens in the coming weeks, I don't know.
"If there is an offer, maybe the club will not accept. He is a really good player — a young player, an English player.
"'With all the valuations we have seen the last few weeks about players, then if you want to buy Ross, it is a big deal. I expected us to have offers on the table for Ross because he made the decision not to sign. At the moment, there is no interest.
"Ok, he will stay and be part of the team. And the best XI will start the game. I respect every personal ambition of every player but still he is ... training with Everton."
Reader Comments (173)
Note: the following content is not moderated or vetted by the site owners at the time of submission. Comments are the responsibility of the poster. Disclaimer
1 Posted 10/08/2017 at 17:52:49
(Or that no one has actually bid for him given we put a £50m price tag on his head.)
2 Posted 10/08/2017 at 17:57:22
Obviously if there are no bids then the player stays and Koeman's sensible enough to include him in any squad once he's fit.
I presume Ross will be sensible enough to play as best he can should he be selected.
3 Posted 10/08/2017 at 18:02:55
4 Posted 10/08/2017 at 18:14:32
I think with new signings this season he can excel and get himself back into the England team. Be a lot more games this season so he won't be limited game time.
I can t help thinking he wants away from Liverpool after that lad banged him out a few months ago?
5 Posted 10/08/2017 at 18:19:06
6 Posted 10/08/2017 at 18:22:21
7 Posted 10/08/2017 at 18:28:36
This incidentally, is the first time Koeman has said something like that... "He's a really good player".
No-one could say there aren't enough mini dramas and sagas playing out in this window. We're the Premier League's own Kardashians for this season.
8 Posted 10/08/2017 at 18:29:22
And if Barkley is still at Everton afterwards, then he should be told to sign or he'll be a benchwarmer at best unless there's an urgent need.
It's World Cup year; he'll not want that.
9 Posted 10/08/2017 at 18:32:48
10 Posted 10/08/2017 at 18:35:29
I honestly think that Spurs want him but are in such a good position regarding their quota of top midfielders that they will wait until the eleventh hour and we'll sell because Koeman doesn't want him.
Everton won't want him to run his contract down and Spurs are sitting pretty.
11 Posted 10/08/2017 at 18:35:39
12 Posted 10/08/2017 at 18:37:29
When the tough talking, deadline calling, tell-it-like-it is, take-no-shit from-nobody-Ronnie told us that Barkley was "100% certain to leave"....
What he really meant to say was "Sorry guys I lost control of this situation long ago, as soon as I opened my gob... but, for reasons I cant explain, I just couldn't stop digging"?
13 Posted 10/08/2017 at 18:37:31
14 Posted 10/08/2017 at 18:39:24
Actually, more like, nobody wants to buy the player.
15 Posted 10/08/2017 at 18:39:24
If he's picked for a matchday squad, where will his head be and who would he displace, a player who has committed himself to the club?
I do think ostracising a player is childish, sending him to play in the naughty corner... but surely the management & training staff can't carry on like it's business as usual. The player isn't prepared to invest any focus in the club.
16 Posted 10/08/2017 at 18:49:15
They delayed putting a contract forward until 15 months before it was due to expire, transferring leverage to the player and his agent, and now failed to receive any offers with 3 weeks of the window left (or put another way, 3 weeks left to sell before the player can sign a pre-contract on Bosman in January).
What a fuck-up. Not very savvy from Moshiri and his team on this particular saga.
17 Posted 10/08/2017 at 18:54:57
What does appear to be correct: No bids so he may stay even though the club would appear to be open to bids. Why do they want bids? Because he hasn't signed a contract.
That's where we are currently.
18 Posted 10/08/2017 at 19:01:00
19 Posted 10/08/2017 at 19:01:19
It sounds like he's said he wants to come to us but isn't going to actively rock the boat for a move. There has been a minor bidding war between two Premier League teams for him and if he's going to go Swansea are going to demand a big fee, can and have.
Barkley has one year left on his contract, has recently been in and out of the side and Everton have / are actively recruiting players in his position. The difference Ross could make if he stays is debatable but he has said he wants to leave, won't sign a new contract, and the club won't /can't stand in his way. There have been no bids and if that continues he will be picked up for free in the summer, much to the benefit of his new club and his own personal bank balance.
For me, they are two very different scenarios.
If we really want Sigurdsson, just cough up and get it done; drop our price for Ross before we get into 2018 and re-coup what we can.
Both players are happy, both clubs are happy, and life goes on.
20 Posted 10/08/2017 at 19:01:23
I suspect Ross knows where he is headed and what he will earn, and has been told to stay absolutely silent. As each day passes, his value drops by the best part of a million quid a day, potentially saving his new employer £20m between now and the end of the transfer window. He'll probably get a cut of that too.
And Everton can do bugger all about it.
21 Posted 10/08/2017 at 19:01:36
22 Posted 10/08/2017 at 19:06:03
Koeman says it right he is still a class player and playing with better players can't do him any harm.
23 Posted 10/08/2017 at 19:08:16
There are no bids so Koeman has said that when fit, if there are still no bids then he'd be available for selection. There's no backtracking on behalf of the management, no change of tack, in fact Koeman is being professional in as much as he's saying that he's available. He's not been ostracised like Van Dijk to train with the reserves.
I get that people have issues with Koeman with his style of play and their opinions on whether we are moving forward under him or not but this situation is entirely of Barkley's making. He refused a good contract and and now has nowhere to go until an offer, if one does in fact materialise, comes in.
Feel free to criticise Koeman all you like about football matters but take your blue-tinted Barkley glasses off and see that this is of his making no-one else's.
24 Posted 10/08/2017 at 19:08:24
25 Posted 10/08/2017 at 19:09:27
26 Posted 10/08/2017 at 19:09:31
Would you sign a player who is not yet back from injury? No way. The "sign or sell" scenario is still open though both sound unlikely.
27 Posted 10/08/2017 at 19:10:34
1) That may still be the case. There's three weeks of the window left.
it's apparent that players of his quality with his role are not easy to acquire. And he's way better thanSigurdsson.
2) Though there's no queue of teams bidding for him, yet!
When the tough talking, deadline calling, tell-it-like-it is, take-no-shit -from-nobody-Ronnie told us that Barkley was "100% certain to leave"... What he really meant to say was "Sorry guys, I lost control of this situation long ago, as soon as I opened my gob... but for reasons I can't explain, I just couldn't stop digging"
Refer to comment 1)
Monumental fuck-up which should result in the award of muppetry of the highest order to the Everton hierarchy, including Walsh, Koeman and the Board. They delayed putting a contract forward until 15 months before it was due to expire, transferring leverage to the player and his agent, and now failed to receive any offers with 3 weeks of the window left (or put another way, 3 weeks left to sell before the player can sign a pre-contract on Bosman in January).
They delayed putting a contract forward until 15 months before it was due to expire, transferring leverage to the player and his agent, and now failed to receive any offers with 3 weeks of the window left (or put another way, 3 weeks left to sell before the player can sign a pre-contract on Bosman in January).
What a fuck-up. Not very savvy from Moshiri and his team on this particular saga.
If he had no intentions of signing it doesn't matter when, why, or how.
28 Posted 10/08/2017 at 19:11:14
29 Posted 10/08/2017 at 19:12:37
30 Posted 10/08/2017 at 19:14:29
31 Posted 10/08/2017 at 19:15:32
32 Posted 10/08/2017 at 19:23:20
You have it spot on.
Danny @ 28,
Barkley is not going to Swansea. I've no inside track here but I find that totally implausible. He'd stay put and run his contract down. If the top 6 don't firm up supposed interest as the deadline approaches expect the next stream (Newcastle, West Ham etc) to show their hand.
33 Posted 10/08/2017 at 19:23:32
"If he had no intentions of signing, it doesn't matter when, why, or how."
34 Posted 10/08/2017 at 19:30:38
I find myself defending Ross at most home games but I'm not sure I can defend him for refusing to sign this latest, improved contract.
Also, as much as it pains me to say it, he's not as good as Sigurdsson.
35 Posted 10/08/2017 at 19:30:40
I just have a suspicion that Bill's hand is at work here delaying the Sigurdsson deal while trying to persuade Ross to stay. I hope I'm wrong. I would like Ross to stay but not at the expense of Sigurdson and a proven goalscorer.
36 Posted 10/08/2017 at 19:31:00
I guess we'll see, but the expression 'beggars can't be choosers' springs to mind!
I think he'll go where he's wanted, whether that is Everton, Swansea, wherever...
37 Posted 10/08/2017 at 19:31:39
38 Posted 10/08/2017 at 19:37:54
If there is blame attached to the contracting side of this, which I personally doubt, it has nothing to do with Koeman.
Not sure about Walsh.
39 Posted 10/08/2017 at 19:39:44
But yep the club would have a stronger hand if Ross still had two years on his contract.
40 Posted 10/08/2017 at 19:39:48
His career could be derailed by going elsewhere. Can't everyone just kiss and make up?
41 Posted 10/08/2017 at 19:42:47
He'll want to leave so he can play in to the England team. If we don't sell him, he signs a contract or he doesn't get any game time. Simple.
42 Posted 10/08/2017 at 19:46:29
We were told Ross was being greedy because he turned down "£100k a week" then we were told by that Ross was holding up the Spurs deal with his unreasonable demands.... now they are claiming nobody wants him.
You quite simply could not make this up.
Given that Barkley still hasn't said a word. The only think we know for sure is Koeman isn't the only one doing a verbal Hokey Cokey.
43 Posted 10/08/2017 at 19:48:50
Personally, I had no issue with Ross leaving because I thought we'd replace him with better. Unfortunately, I don't see that happening.
I would like to see how this offensive unit works:
Klaassen Rooney Sandro
44 Posted 10/08/2017 at 19:50:56
He is apparently not in Koeman's plans is he? If he wants to go why hasn't he handed in a request?
Everton need to get this sorted soon otherwise Barkley will spend the season as a benchwarmer until he is a free agent.
45 Posted 10/08/2017 at 19:53:57
About face to save face here methinks on Koeman's behalf.
46 Posted 10/08/2017 at 19:54:05
47 Posted 10/08/2017 at 19:55:23
48 Posted 10/08/2017 at 19:56:06
"We were told Ross was being greedy". Who by? I don't recall anyone telling me that Ross was being greedy. Some people on TW may have imagined that that was the case but can you provide any concrete evidence that anyone "told us" that fact?
"we were told by that (sic) Ross was holding up the Spurs deal". Again, by whom? Who told us this, and I mean, who has the inside line on this issue and stated categorically that Barkley was "holding up the Spurs deal"?
"You quite simply could not make this up." Isn't that your department, making things up? Just askin'...
49 Posted 10/08/2017 at 19:57:06
I would be interested to know the name of the person who said all that.
50 Posted 10/08/2017 at 19:57:37
1. Yes, that would be tapping up.
2. Sometimes there are conspiracies, they don't need to be made up.
3. That's what I was saying.
They are only my thoughts, not based on much other than my experiences in representing clients buying and selling land. I could be way off beam, but I don't think Ross will be with us come September.
51 Posted 10/08/2017 at 19:59:51
52 Posted 10/08/2017 at 20:00:13
"If he is unhappy what's the point of keeping him around?"
Because if no one bids for him we don't have a choice (bar putting him out to pasture for a year).
"Surely he has made his intentions clear after what has been said. Why has there not been any offer for him. Strange ??"
Because either no-one wants him, our asking price has scared people off but more likely people know as every day goes by his fee will steadily fall. Levy will probably make a last-minute £15m bid and we will probably take what we can.
"He is apparently not in Koeman's plans is he?" Nope.
"If he wants to go why hasn't he handed in a request?"
He doesn't need to he knows he's already clearly plonked in the shop window. He would only do that if bids were in and we were refusing to sell, when quite the opposite is true.
53 Posted 10/08/2017 at 20:03:07
Sorry, but no, not a fine summary. Like most, it is predicated on assumption. There are now several posters that routinely use the "He wants to leave" line. That has never been said.
As to the contract, your own words reveal it: "...a bloody good one in excess of £100k if reports are to be believed".
We know nothing about the contents of the contract offer, nor any conditions therein, nor the discussions surrounding it. Nothing.
Every single word pertaining to this whole protracted issue has come from Koeman. My own personal piece of assumption or judgement is that the "new challenge" line was a rather too convenient and softening. A guess of course, like everyone else.
Vague "Challenge" line aside, notice that Koeman or the club have never once touched on why Barkley wants to leave. The later-reported talk between manager and player about Champions League football appears to have taken place earlier in the season before any real trouble brewed.
Now, at his stage, we suddenly have Mr. Tough Love calling Barkley "...a really good player". Comparing this with the public treatment of earlier doesn't tend to indicate an ideal relationship, or the best of management.
Koeman saying, once, that Barkley wants a new challenge, with no response or previous words whatsoever from Barkley's side, is rather different to the player actively wanting to leave.
If it was to later come out, since nothing has at all at this stage, that Barkley wanted out because of his treatment by Koeman, would you still contend that this situation is of Barkley's making and no-one else?
54 Posted 10/08/2017 at 20:04:44
The rest of it is guesswork from many people trying to prove a point.
My bet in May that he'll be with us at the start of the season is looking very, very good.
55 Posted 10/08/2017 at 20:05:40
Both players are of a similar age, both England internationals in and out of the National team, and both in the last 12 months of their contracts. Personally I would love to see Oxlade Chamberlain move this way with maybe Ross going in the other?
My thoughts on this is that it will all take place on transfer deadline day giving TalkSport Jim 'talks shite' White his perfect wet dream!
56 Posted 10/08/2017 at 20:06:29
Brian, he only decided not to sign as a result of something we've not been told or had confirmed. The reason very much does matter.
57 Posted 10/08/2017 at 20:08:56
I was told by someone who knows him well that he simply wanted more money than the club were prepared to offer.
58 Posted 10/08/2017 at 20:09:19
This is nothing to do with Koeman or Walsh. This is to do with Ross being hacked off with Ron for last season's criticism and Ross's agent has told him to say no to the contract because he'll get to go to Spurs and won't ever have to play for Koeman again. He knows Koeman doesn't want him and so he's dug his tunnel and he's just waiting for the bid to come in just short of the end of the window.
Personally, I don't blame him and I think he'll improve under a manager who wants him. If Koeman walked tomorrow because of, let's say, the Gyfi situation, I reckon Ross would stay. He's an Evertonian but he's not a Koemanian. The power here is with the player and not the manager.
59 Posted 10/08/2017 at 20:14:22
Koeman said he'd be sold if he didn't sign the contract; the fact that nobody has come in for him is hardly Koemans fault. Koeman is being the bigger person here by saying if he doesn't leave then there is a way back. No backtracking, no bumbling apology for supposedly being wrong just if he's here the he will be available for selection. Barkley has backed himself into a corner not Koeman.
You've slaughtered Koeman over the last few months. I don't necessarily agree with you as I think it's far too early but I respect your opinions on football matters and it's your personal opinion. However, one aspect I do agree with is your assessment of where we are at as a club.
We are serial losers and have been for many years. We have a loser mentality and it's been entrenched in the club, fans, and players, especially the players. I agree that we need to change that attitude,w we need to compete at the top table. Not accept 7th or 6th or 5th, we should be expecting league titles and cup wins. This may be unrealistic at present but it's what we should be expecting.
Wailing about Barkley being given hard done to is hardly the way forward. I want players at my club who, when they are told they aren't doing the business, have the attitude that "I'll show him, I'll be MotM next week and he can shove those words right up his jacksie."
Barkley cried at half time at Wembley in the semi-final because he thought he was getting well booed. Sorry but that's not the kind of mentality I want at my club and I'm surprised that you do given your vitriolic attacks at the club over the last few months at the direction we are heading. I don't really care if Barkley has had his feelings hurt or others are put out by Koeman's words, he clearly wants winners here at the club and if you're going to cry about it as a player then you are not the one to take us forward.
Read Sharpie's autobiography; in it he recalls when Kendall dropped him several times. He disagreed strongly with it and told Kendall so. He promised to make it so Kendall couldn't drop him and succeeded. A proper winner with the medals to prove it.
Barkley doesn't even warrant being in the same conversation as those players let alone representing the same club. If we want to be taken seriously as you suggest and compete for titles and not be also-rans then we need winners, not whiners. Koeman may be a lot of things and he may not be your cup of tea but he's not to blame for Barkley taking his ball home in a sulk.
60 Posted 10/08/2017 at 20:14:30
Entirely correct. The "may" word twice in there we don't know. At this stage though, all we do know is that Koeman's chicken appears to have come before Barkley's egg.
61 Posted 10/08/2017 at 20:20:11
Koeman is quoted as saying that Ross has turned down a new contract and has told him that he is seeking a new challenge elsewhere. Pretty much says to me that Barkley wants away, that is unless you are calling Koeman a liar?
62 Posted 10/08/2017 at 20:25:34
If I were to speculate based on the known elements we have to work with, that would be close to it.
The part about Barkley's agent could be a possibility but has risk attached.
Despite today's activity I agree with others that think it's not over; plenty of time for other clubs to come in for Barkley yet. We also all are aware of Levy and how he operates so there may well be a late insulting bid, in isolation of any underhand pre-discussion.
63 Posted 10/08/2017 at 20:36:02
It doesn't tend to be called lies nowadays, but diplomacy under the heading of "PR". Of course, I don't know for sure, same as yourself, but "new challenge" is rather nondescript for me. We'll know more when we've heard both sides - if we get to hear both sides.
Always two sides...
65 Posted 10/08/2017 at 20:40:43
67 Posted 10/08/2017 at 21:04:58
There's been many a comment on the lack of "winning" mentality for years and rightly so. We need a sprinkling of "hard nuts" in our squad because all successful clubs have them and, Rooney aside, I hope we see most of our new signings show they have it, plus skill.
A growing number of us now allude to Barkley's mental frailty as a player (I got lambasted by a few for mentioning it last season) but it seems more and more the case unfortunately. As if he's bothered though. All he's focussed on is himself, demonstrably, and bollocks to the club.
68 Posted 10/08/2017 at 21:06:06
Regardless of whether Koeman is lying/economic with the truth or whatever you want to call it, we can only come to one conclusion when Barkley doesn't make any comment or deny that he wants to leave his boyhood club and that's because Barkley wants to leave.
69 Posted 10/08/2017 at 21:07:16
Not seen anything to suggest it will be for Everton.
70 Posted 10/08/2017 at 21:07:48
He has one year left on his contract and will not sign a new one, wanting to leave. But no club wants to buy him. So he can't leave. Until after his contract is up after this season. Which means he remains an employee of Everton. And as such, if his manager wants him to work he will work for his employer.
Seems fairly simple to me.
71 Posted 10/08/2017 at 21:13:30
72 Posted 10/08/2017 at 21:17:21
He said Barkley would be sold if he didn't sign the contract, when it wasn't his call.
Now he's saying he could stay... As far as U-turns go, it's cast iron.
73 Posted 10/08/2017 at 21:23:13
He turned down a lucrative contract to stay, end of story as far as I'm concerned.
74 Posted 10/08/2017 at 21:27:37
But we did put him up for sale. As Koeman said, nobody made a damn offer. That's not a U-turn, that's the market saying about Barkley "nah, no thanks".
And I'd be very shocked if Koeman plays him given the fact that he doesn't want to be here.
75 Posted 10/08/2017 at 21:28:28
I believe that Ross is in a different position to most transfer targets in that he knows where he's going, probably this transfer window and he and the end club are playing a waiting game that will play out in the last few days of the window. The game is to get Ross as cheaply as possible hoping he'll be a free gift if we buy Sigurdsson.
It is also nonsense that nobody wants to buy Ross, there are other teams in the top 6 who are waiting in the wings to see what happens. None of these teams are going to show their hands now and they'd be crazy to do so as in an open bidding war Ross could make the £50M. He's the jewel in the crown of this transfer window because he is quality that could be available at a reasonable price.
By far the best bit of business that we could do is keep Ross and I think that, after the failed attempt to bully him, they have realised this. They thought he was too thick to resist yet he has outflanked them with his quiet dignity.
I desperately hope he stays because I still think he will become a legend for us.
76 Posted 10/08/2017 at 21:34:40
77 Posted 10/08/2017 at 21:36:49
Was that not a possibility at the point Koeman first uttered his threat/promise then, Dave?
As pointed out at the time, it always had the potential to play out as a hollow, grandstanding 'ultimatum', reliant as it was on the actions and decision-making of both other clubs and Barkley himself, along with the inconvenient binding bastardry of an iron-clad contract with a full year to run.
79 Posted 10/08/2017 at 21:37:41
He's a player under contract, if Koeman wants him to play and he's fit to play then Koeman puts him in the team. How is that a u turn? The ball has always been in Barkley's court, Koeman is looking after Everton's interests.
80 Posted 10/08/2017 at 21:38:12
My post suggested that there was some serious back-peddling going on from Koeman and his supporters on here.
I had a quick glance at the last Barkley thread and found he was taking a bit of a kicking.
"His heads been turned, he wants more money to whats on offer"... then there was "He basically spells it out, this is all about money."
It's clear, some of Koeman's supporters have decided to portray Barks as the Villain of this piece . There are plenty more such postings, but I'll concentrate on your question; How are the club back-peddling ?
Not sure they are mate; I think all the noise has come from one particular Gob and although the Gob represents the club I don't think its fair to say he speaks for everyone else at the club.
Koeman didn't need to single out Barkley for criticism... but he did.
He did not need to stall on negotiations and wait until a mere 15 months of the lads contract remained... but he did.
He did not need to show our hand to all and sundry by issuing a deadline... but he did.
He did not need to start swinging his willy and announce Barkley will be gone "100%"... but he did.
He as made his bed and he has been forced into a humiliating climb down. The kid many dubbed as "thick" has made a complete mug of him.
The ball was always in Barkley's court, Dave. Even our gormless manager now realises this, those who dismissed Barkley as "thick" will eventually realise it too../ that may take a while though.
You are a fantastic contributor, Dave, because unlike some, you always have something to say.... let's hope we are both wrong and Koeman gets Manager of the Year and Barkley runs riot – in a blue shirt.
81 Posted 10/08/2017 at 21:38:23
82 Posted 10/08/2017 at 21:39:02
83 Posted 10/08/2017 at 21:42:24
I can't make it because of work . Pick up at St Helen's. Anyone interested?
84 Posted 10/08/2017 at 21:43:59
85 Posted 10/08/2017 at 21:48:24
87 Posted 10/08/2017 at 21:50:19
"If he had no intentions of signing it doesn't matter when, why, or how."
Of course it matters when the contract was offered. Had it been offered in the summer of 2016, and Barkley had no intention of signing it, Everton would have had 3 windows to sell him.
Offering it 15 months before expiry left only this window to sell him if he refused to sign. In January 2018 Ross could sign a pre-contract.
The hierarchy have been largely shrewd on comings and goings this summer but the Barkley episode will be a blemish if an offer fails to materialise in the next 3 weeks.
88 Posted 10/08/2017 at 21:51:23
In my opinion Ross will not leave the club for less than £35 million (especially to Spurs).
Martin Mason: "They thought he was too thick to resist yet he has outflanked them with his quiet dignity."
Rubbish! Who has bullied Barkley? The club say "Sign the contract or we will sell you" which would be the same for any player in the same situation. It's business.
89 Posted 10/08/2017 at 22:06:01
Grade A distraction and slight of hand... don't like the answer? Weigh in with presumptive and puerile nonsense about hating Koeman. My judgement is not clouded at all... Koeman has backtracked. That is a fact.
I think some people could do with learning the difference between the definitive "he will be sold" and "we will put him up for sale". Koeman spoke out of turn in public when he should've kept his gob shut.
90 Posted 10/08/2017 at 22:06:13
I only meant in so far as whether Ross would sign it or not, not what it meant with regard to the club's position.
91 Posted 10/08/2017 at 22:07:37
92 Posted 10/08/2017 at 22:19:37
As I pointed out earlier, I don't have patience with players who are going to take issue every time they get a bit of criticism for putting in a below par performance. Players at the top level are treated like royalty and receive ridiculous rewards for doing what they do.
Fair enough, you may say,, there are very few that can do what they do and they should be handsomely rewarded given the finance in the game today. However, when you can blatantly see players coasting and not giving their all or putting personal glory ahead of the team then I think there is every right to criticise, even in public.
As good as Lukaku is/was for us, long term we will be a better team without him due to his lack of teamwork when we really needed him. Same could be said of Barkley. Great talent but we see it so infrequently. If he hasn't got the stones to stand a bit of criticism, then it says a lot to me that he doesn't have the stomach to take us and himself to the very top.
I like to think Koeman issued his ultimatum because no player is bigger than the club. It effectively said here is a good contract, it says we want you to stay but if you don't want it then you're free to leave. No messing, there you go. 15 months to go to the end of a contract is hardly last minute.
As I say, I want players to fight tooth and nail for the club, to get up when floored, to come back for more, to say that 5-0 hammering will never happen again whilst I'm on the field. Sadly I don't think Ross has that kind of fight in him so with that in mind I'm not unhappy if he did go. A stellar display once in a blue moon is just not good enough for me.
As you say though, let's hope we are both woefully wrong and Koeman and Barkley lead us to glory.
John, yes it was a possibility but I don't think that anybody actually thought that nobody would come in for Barkley.
93 Posted 10/08/2017 at 22:20:46
"It's clear, some of Koeman's supporters have decided to portray Barkley as the villain of this piece".
You could say the same yourself about your views on Koeman, couldn't you?
I don't rate Barkley as high as you do, Darren, nor am I convinced that Koeman is the manager to make us better, but I am prepared to give the man a reasonable amount of time. All you do is knock anything he does. Who would you have as manager, Darren, who did you want ?
I would argue that Ross has had enough time to show us all he is the player you think he is... and no matter what you say in his defence, Ross Barkley simply hasn't done the business on a consistent basis at Everton; wherever he ends up, this will continue to be the case, in my opinion.
Ross Barkley is a good football player but not a great one that's the player I see most games.
Barkley was offered a very good contract and turned it down; the contract offer remains on the table.
94 Posted 10/08/2017 at 22:25:31
If Ross is sold, I assume you will both admit that Koeman was right when he stated that 'Ross will be sold'?
95 Posted 10/08/2017 at 22:34:26
Any "reasonable" person would accept that the addendum goes without saying and so all Koeman did was state the bloody obvious.
96 Posted 10/08/2017 at 22:35:15
No takers as yet.
Looks like the managers of the four top six teams who we were told by the experts were clamouring to buy Ross may agree with Koeman on Ross's ability.
97 Posted 10/08/2017 at 22:47:27
Unless he produces a crystal ball or a DeLorean at 1.21 jiggowatts, the answer is no.
Koeman produced his ultimatum as if it was his gift to simply sell him. It wasn't. At least now he has resiled and is trying to save face.
I don't know why people are even bothering the try and argue about this. It's done.
He likely will be sold... and likely for less than half what we'll pay for his replacement... but it'll be Ross's choice, not Ronald's.
98 Posted 10/08/2017 at 23:02:50
99 Posted 10/08/2017 at 23:04:23
100 Posted 10/08/2017 at 23:07:00
102 Posted 10/08/2017 at 23:25:17
'Sign by the end of the season or you will be sold... provided you are agreeable to the move yourself, of course, Ross. Goes without saying, that. Final decision is yours to make'
So, basically, it was about as strong an 'ultimatum' as someone uttering the words "Big Issue?" as you brush past them in the street?
103 Posted 10/08/2017 at 23:29:30
104 Posted 10/08/2017 at 23:31:37
OK, best of the week.
OK, nominee for post of the year.
You da man!
105 Posted 10/08/2017 at 23:46:39
According to who, Oliver? It was only a couple of weeks ago that Koeman came out and said:
"What I heard from the board is that there's not really an offer on the table for Ross."
106 Posted 10/08/2017 at 23:52:58
If he now stays and is part of the squad then so be it. He can offer us something different. I can't see him starting if we do get Glyfi but the gauntlet will be thrown down to him to prove he should be in the team.
If he leaves then fine. We get, probably, around £25 to 30 mill or wherever for him.
I don't see the big deal either way as he's hardly Messi.
107 Posted 10/08/2017 at 23:58:56
I think he'll go to Spurs for around £20-25m; can't blame him. He's been under pressure since his first game from the fans giving him more stick than he probably deserves.
108 Posted 10/08/2017 at 00:05:19
I know it's difficult for some to think that a boyhood Evertonian wants to leave the club by making the decision himself, therefore he must be being driven away from his precious dream by some evil demon Dutchman, but it's happened before and it'll happen again..
109 Posted 11/08/2017 at 00:39:09
Put your boots back on, lad. If you get to put on the blue jersey again, play like you've never played before, prove almost everyone who doubts you wrong and figure out if playing your best football is the best thing for you at this club. Do that and you're free to make any decision you like.
110 Posted 11/08/2017 at 00:49:33
And the other factor is he is a local. If the lad was born in Spain, but everything else was the same (amazing natural ability but inconsistent) not many would raise an eyebrow at this situation.
Lewis (#109). Isn't he free now to make his own decision? Which is what he's done.
111 Posted 10/08/2017 at 01:03:07
When Koeman said if Ross doesn't sign he'll be sold I took it he meant the club couldn't risk him seeing his contract out and going for free so they would have to assume he no longer wanted to stay at the club (which Barkley confirmed as correct) and would have to be moved on for a fee for the best interests of the club.
Some others saw a vase.
112 Posted 11/08/2017 at 01:40:43
Ross saying nothing and Koeman saying something is a moot point in my book. Barkley doesn't have to do press conferences and interviews; Koeman does, thus gets asked about the situation. Also, Koeman is not a native English speaker, thus his utterings are often open to interpretation/misinterpretation. Let's just see what happens, that is what matters!
113 Posted 11/08/2017 at 02:02:38
I see you have become something of a target on this site and sometimes I want to defend your views.
I agree with a bit of what you have to say about Ronald Koeman. He is not all that. I think much of last season was accidental in that when Bolasie was injured and Barkley came in full time and Davies did likewise, we went on a run.
You always bang on about Koeman the player and Koeman the manager being separate entities. I agree. Kevin Keegan won it all as a player and nothing as a manager. Koeman might have won in the Netherlands but that's no longer impressive.
I suppose my concern is that this whole Barkley saga hasn't been commented on by Ross. You have Danny Rose at Spurs making inflammatory remarks designed to get him moved but Ross has said zilch.
Something strange going on here about Ross.
115 Posted 11/08/2017 at 02:43:49
Let's face it, we have a crap manager who has won nothing lately and has handled Ross wrong.
116 Posted 11/08/2017 at 03:57:01
The only mistake I see that Koeman made in the Barkley situation was announcing that Barkley should sign or be sold. That just told every other club that Everton want him gone so now they don't have to rush and make a respectable bid. But Koeman is honest to a fault.
117 Posted 11/08/2017 at 04:07:34
I agree with Josh as to the announcement being Koeman's mistake. I expect my coach to have said the same thing (except behind closed doors) but with agents and media these days, would the story be any different had he not said that? I doubt so.
If Barkley is as loyal as many are to believe, he should sign the contract soon, especially at a place where he is valued higher than any where else. Given the upgrade we have in so many areas of the team, any boyhood blue should jump at the first chance of an improved contract.
118 Posted 11/08/2017 at 04:45:32
119 Posted 11/08/2017 at 04:51:13
ps: So difficult coming on here reading, and knowing I'm going to read, Darren's not just simple opinion ever more unbalanced diatribe against the manager! How do you state your own case to, discuss your own thinking with, someone who's clearly switched off to all but his own bleak, and often just malicious, version of... everything? Blue? He'd have us playing in black (and spitting at our own manager on the way out onto the pitch!!!)...
120 Posted 11/08/2017 at 05:03:27
121 Posted 11/08/2017 at 05:06:51
122 Posted 11/08/2017 at 05:54:56
My expectations for this season: FA Cup and Europa League trophies plus 5th-8th in Premier League. Anything less and Koeman should be sacked if we really have any ambitions.
The Europa League should be viewed as the Champions League.
123 Posted 11/08/2017 at 06:28:06
"Bleak and often malicious version of... everything blue"?
I have attended well over a thousand games following this club all over the Europe. Why? ... because I love it.
I was on another thread recently defending our youngsters against Koeman's poor management. Why? ... because I love the club.
I am here defending a homegrown natural-born Evertonian against what I see as crass buffoonery. Why? ... because I love this club.
If you want to come on here and say whatever you like about my criticisms of Koeman, you are perfectly entitled to do so... but stick to Koeman. At least then you will be telling the truth.
The baying handful don't bother me. I tend to be more interested in what people like Dave Ganley, Chris Gould and Paul T Have to say... Reasoned argument trumps foolish attempts to shout you down all day long.
124 Posted 11/08/2017 at 06:31:02
You have to take your hat off to Levy, there is not much we can do about it, he will go for around £20m.
Come to think of it, it is probably the reason the Sigurdsson deal,is stalling... as soon a we sign Sigurdsson, Ross is finished and his sale price diminishes. It is starting to look like we are waiting for a firm offer for Ross before concluding the Sigurdsson transfer.
Anyone think that's the case?
125 Posted 11/08/2017 at 06:48:44
That would be, what, 30 games a year for nearly 40 years?
Excuse my raised eyebrows, but our living legend David France (in his book) says he has seen 800 matches in 60 years of following the club, and has the memorabilia to prove it. Have you really left him that far in the dust?
If so, you must have a highly flexible family and work situation... and a lovely large bank account to boot.
Are you sure you're not hyperbolizing just a little bit? No harm in it... I'm prone to a few stretchers myself... but that seems like a long 'un to me.
Of course, I may be just one of the "baying handful" eh?
126 Posted 11/08/2017 at 06:52:16
I wish I could be like Jamesy Watts. Wish I could be like Jamesy Watts. Wish I could beeeeeee like, wish I could beeee like. Wish I could be like Jamesy Watts.
But unfortunately I find myself paying Darren's posts too much attention.
127 Posted 11/08/2017 at 06:54:34
David (#14) You say nobody wants to buy Ross... I hope you are right and he stays with us but I believe he will end up at a top 6 club.
128 Posted 11/08/2017 at 07:04:06
129 Posted 11/08/2017 at 07:12:22
But as a case in point, just read Darren at #123, especially the phrase "Reasoned argument trumps foolish attempts". See, he's funny as he has no clue about the irony of statements like this. Bless him.
130 Posted 11/08/2017 at 07:25:12
131 Posted 11/08/2017 at 07:28:58
I think by repeatedly coming back you are missing the irony. Barkley is our player now. Koeman is our manager now. Let's support both until one or both of those facts change.
132 Posted 11/08/2017 at 08:01:46
I think you might be coming at this from an American perspective and not realize that London is but a train ride or charter bus away. Football historically and even today isn't outrageously priced, especially Everton. If you've grown up with Everton as a child then watching 1,000 matches isn't unusual at all.
133 Posted 11/08/2017 at 08:12:29
Agree. Simply obvious.
Lee (#119) agree.
134 Posted 11/08/2017 at 08:28:51
It would be a surprise if Everton sold Barkley for £20 million; add another £15 million on top is the minimum.
135 Posted 11/08/2017 at 08:32:54
136 Posted 11/08/2017 at 08:37:28
After Koeman's comments, I agree with you. I thought myself for a long time that he would be sold for circa £20 mill on deadline day. But after yesterday I'd now be far from surprised if he's here for the remainder of his contract as don't see anyone, especially Spurs, paying £35m for him.
137 Posted 11/08/2017 at 08:37:31
So my penniworth is we keep Barkley because if he is not as good as Sigurdsson (matter of opinion) then the difference isn't so great that we need to spend £50m. We could use far less than £50m to purchase Dembele at Celtic we need a striker and damned quick.
138 Posted 11/08/2017 at 08:43:27
139 Posted 11/08/2017 at 09:11:51
I would like the club to make a move for Costa, with as much money as they can muster. We need a striker more than a No 10.
140 Posted 11/08/2017 at 09:37:47
Darren doesn't rate Koeman and is not slow to give his reasons; I hope he is wrong about him. Nevertheless, none of us can say with any certainty how his stay (Koeman's) will turn out.
141 Posted 11/08/2017 at 09:51:50
Personally I don't rate him. I wanted him to be great like everyone else but he just isn't.
142 Posted 11/08/2017 at 10:11:25
Or was that only for Lukaku?
143 Posted 11/08/2017 at 10:38:51
Thank you, Mike praise off you is praise indeed!
144 Posted 11/08/2017 at 10:44:03
Strange this, with new manager, influx of new players, new funding, new stadium....
I would have thought it was never a better time to be an Everton player?
145 Posted 11/08/2017 at 11:30:28
When I say it's not difficult, sometimes it has been excruciating. We can't all have your 100% success rate, my friend!
146 Posted 11/08/2017 at 12:03:49
This season, Rangers were knocked out of the Europa League by part timers from Luxemburg and Aberdeen by a Cypriot team, neither are football power houses.
That is a good measure of where their level is IMO. Dembele would struggle with the pace of the game here. Sinclair was average in England but played like a superstar for Celtic, scored for fun and won player of the year.
147 Posted 11/08/2017 at 12:04:56
Would you take Van Dijk?
148 Posted 11/08/2017 at 12:13:36
149 Posted 11/08/2017 at 12:22:06
150 Posted 11/08/2017 at 13:09:03
Remember seeing him at the Cottage when we strolled past Fulham in their relegation season and he looked lightweight and erratic yet within 2 years he looks super human in the SPL?
He might ramp it up but I'm not convinced when bang average players struggling to get a game in the EPL (Scott Sinclair) go North and become key figures in a SPL winning side.
151 Posted 11/08/2017 at 13:27:30
Darren, apologies for my skepticism.
152 Posted 11/08/2017 at 13:54:34
I know he's said in the past that he'd like to play there and it might get two problems solved in one go. One of Ross's problems is that he gets caught in two minds when playing deeper maybe up front he just needs to react.
(I've got a feeling I might need my tin hat with this one.)
153 Posted 11/08/2017 at 14:40:47
I don't imagine it will happen but you never know how things will turn out unless you try them.
154 Posted 11/08/2017 at 15:42:06
I should have written:
"You're able to make a decision less worry of regret".
155 Posted 11/08/2017 at 15:49:43
I take that as a huge compliment coming from someone as respected as you.
I don't pay much attention to people who repeatedly come back to say they don't take my posts seriously (I find it amusing that they don't see the irony). It's the only way they can get a response from other posters. Their own points go unnoticed because they have nothing of any interest to say. Water off a duck's back.
No problem. I don't put myself in the same brackets as the good Doctor of course. He has done so much for the cause, but he emigrated. I didn't. There are literally thousands of fans in the UK who have seen over a thousand games. It's no biggee. Most of the people in my circle have been to more games than me. My Mrs dismisses us as anoraks.
156 Posted 11/08/2017 at 15:55:42
157 Posted 11/08/2017 at 16:13:17
158 Posted 11/08/2017 at 16:17:18
159 Posted 11/08/2017 at 16:18:54
Apparently, Ross has been offered somewhere between £80-100k with us. Maybe he's waiting to go for free & a large signing on bonus? I can't see him improving his wage and be guaranteed to start elsewhere. Unless the likes of West Ham want him.
160 Posted 11/08/2017 at 16:20:15
161 Posted 11/08/2017 at 16:27:53
To this day, I have been disappointed with Koeman. The football we've played has often been dreadful. The tactics and team selection has been overly defensive and he constantly fills the team with central midfielders playing out of position.
But, on the other hand, Barkley is the one who doesn't want to be here anymore. He isn't negotiating a contract, he wants to leave. If he didn't, he would have come out and called Koeman's claim of "Barkley wanting a new challenge" as untrue. He has been completely silent, which I think is pathetic. If you want to leave have the guts to come out and speak for yourself. Don't hide in the shadows.
So I don't rate Koeman and I also don't blame him for anything to do with Barkley's situation. This has all been Barkley's making, he doesn't want to play for Everton. But nobody wanted to buy him. So now he'll be stuck here for the season and we'll lose him for nothing.
Koeman's claim that if he doesn't sign he'll be sold didn't have anything to do with him not being sold. Everyone was aware of the fact he was in the last year of his contract. So now they're just waiting to sign him for free or to run down the window and get him on the last day.
162 Posted 11/08/2017 at 16:29:47
I take my young son to Goodison Park this Saturday for his very first game. My hope is to "seal the deal" with our visit to the SoS, to ensure that his Evertonian genes are educated to overpower the temptation to become a plastic follower of another club.
I am hoping we get a good win to boot so it becomes a truly memorable day, and that he too goes on to watch 1,000 games, long after I am gone.
163 Posted 11/08/2017 at 16:42:41
In the periods when we are really quiet, please just explain that we have over 30,000 experts in the ground and we are all making notes on player performance(s).
164 Posted 11/08/2017 at 16:43:31
165 Posted 11/08/2017 at 16:52:21
166 Posted 11/08/2017 at 16:57:33
167 Posted 11/08/2017 at 17:00:42
I envy your thousand-game record, although it obviously means you've watched a whole lot of bad footy.
I only have 998 to go... although as Peter Mills is always kind enough to point out, I do have a 100% record. Two games, two wins.
168 Posted 11/08/2017 at 17:20:29
Actually it's a sort of lightweight padded nylon, shower-proof jacket with a zip front. High performance versions are available with a zip-on hood and sports sleeve stripe. Has a sort of association with nerdy types nowadays.
169 Posted 11/08/2017 at 18:26:36
170 Posted 11/08/2017 at 18:44:10
James 163 yes indeed a very plausible explanation. I shall explain to my boy that the School of Science is not a library, as the away fans may occasionally contend. It is a temple of contemplation.
171 Posted 11/08/2017 at 21:51:16
172 Posted 12/08/2017 at 00:09:58
Ross is still our best attacking midfielder, as he was last season, he's now even more important due to the loss of Rom.
173 Posted 12/08/2017 at 00:23:56
174 Posted 12/08/2017 at 09:49:09
175 Posted 12/08/2017 at 13:33:40
176 Posted 12/08/2017 at 14:42:57
177 Posted 12/08/2017 at 14:51:12
Squad player, you are kidding right?! He was 3rd in the Premier League last season for chances created and he's not even close to his peak yet. Having Rooney with us will help him improve to the next level. If he stays, he has to be a starter IMO.
178 Posted 13/08/2017 at 22:42:48
He needs somebody (Rooney) to put an arm around him,and they might both get back in the England squad. That's not Koeman's way, and Ross needs to take the managers criticism on the chin and fight for his place.
I think he's not used to the criticism, and is struggling to come to terms with the reality of working under a world class footballer Koeman, who can see his potential and gets frustrated that Ross doesn't appear to be able to respond. Seems like an impasse, unless someone else takes him under their wing; Big Dunc, Unsy, Rooney.
Jeffers, Rodwell, Lescott, possibly Stones, shows you the grass isn't always greener. Man up, Ross, swallow your pride and knuckle down. Taking a pay cut (if it's true) is disrespectful. Don't burn your bridges son.
179 Posted 13/08/2017 at 23:07:50
As you say, he can't take the criticism from Koeman. Well isn't that part of the job of any manager? Criticism is probably too harsh a word, but Isn't that supposed to say something to the player, to help him buck his ideas up, help him improve his game, and say to himself, "I'll show you I deserve to be in your starting eleven".
Money is maybe another factor as to why Barkley wants out. He has supposedly been offered over £100k /wk. In fact wasn't he offered something similar to Lukaku, about £140k /wk? I may be wrong about that, but what I do know is that he won't get £100k at Spurs.
The third reason, and the one I think, in my opinion, most likely, is his safety. I think after his fracas in Liverpool city centre he now fears for his safety, as whatever the circumstances behind that night were, they are still there. Well the answer to that is simple. Move out of Liverpool by all means, and move to the leafy suburbs of Cheshire where a lot of footballers live, but there is no need to leave the club you love (we hope).
Add Your Comments
In order to post a comment, you need to be logged in as a registered user of the site.
Or Sign up as a ToffeeWeb Member — it's free, takes just a few minutes and will allow you to post your comments on articles and Talking Points submissions across the site.