Dowell scores the winner in Forest thriller

Saturday 12 August 2017  50 Comments  [Jump to last]
Kieran Dowell scored his first senior goal as Nottingham Forest made it two wins in two to start the new season.

The midfielder, on a season-long loan from Everton, fired home in the 83rd minute to score what proved to be the decisive goal in a 4-3 win at Brentford.

As he was when he made his debut last week, Dowell came on as a substitute, this time at the start of the second half and endeared himself further to the Forest faithful.  

Reader Comments (50)

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Derek Knox
1 Posted 12/08/2017 at 18:16:47
I am made up for the lad and the experience will really help in the long term, but I am still of the opinion, we should have held on to him.

Could have done with him today, but then again, would Koeman have used him, as opposed to his favourites?

Clive Rogers
5 Posted 12/08/2017 at 20:43:01
I watched the U23 game v Southampton last season and Dowell was the outstanding player for me. Inch perfect passing, vision and scored a goal with a powerful shot from outside the area. I am sure he could have an outstanding career, hopefully with us. I also would have kept him but am sure the loan will do him good long term.
Des Farren
6 Posted 12/08/2017 at 21:13:01
I am not sure he is ready for the Premier League. I don't think he is. He is a good player – just not mature enough. A year with Forest, with the correct attitude, should benefit him hugely. I wish him well.
Anthony Dwyer
7 Posted 12/08/2017 at 23:27:26
I agree, Des, the kid has ability but needs to be more shrewd to play Premier League football.
Anto Byrne
8 Posted 12/08/2017 at 23:36:59
Think we are all going to be Forest fans for the next 9 months let's see if they can win promotion with Dowell.
Charlie Lloyd
9 Posted 13/08/2017 at 01:06:27
Great opportunity for Dowell to prove himself. I really hope he smashes it and comes back into contention around the first team squad.

Also, he looks a damn sight better in blue than red!

Patrick Fennell
10 Posted 13/08/2017 at 02:23:48
Dowell will get much more playing time with Forest. Can only help the kid. Keep it up Kieran and we'll see you in the first team next year.
Joseph Terrence
11 Posted 13/08/2017 at 03:47:47
It'd be nice to see him do well in the Everton first team but he is not the finished product, especially physically speaking, and so long as he plays consistently during this loan spell it will do Dowell a world of good. A repeat of the Galloway loan at West Brom must be avoided, but it appears as though Dowell will get plenty of playing time which can only do him well.
Kieran Kinsella
12 Posted 13/08/2017 at 04:51:21
Warburton will give him plenty of game time. He's all about flair. Hopefully the lad will pick up the all around game to supplement his skill.
James Newcombe
13 Posted 13/08/2017 at 08:35:56
The loan will do him the World of good – see how little football Lookman is getting!
Karl Parsons
14 Posted 13/08/2017 at 09:48:54
Whatever your profession, if you do it to a world accredited standard you have half an idea of who, below you, is at a level fit enough to serve your needs.

Need I say any more?

Tony Abrahams
15 Posted 13/08/2017 at 10:11:34
James 13, good point, if young kids don't play, then they won't develop. Jonjoe Kenny, must be tearing his hair out now, because along with Lookman, then he needs to play proper competitive football.

Made up for Dowell, but anyone who understands life, work, sport, would know that anyone who has just won a "World Cup" at whatever level, should be full of confidence and also chomping at the bit, which is why I'm so frustrated for the other two kids, I've just mentioned.

Stan Schofield
16 Posted 13/08/2017 at 10:35:01
Karl@14: I think you might indeed need to say more. If you mean that Koeman's past expertise implies he's likely to be making the best choice with regard to Dowell, that May or may not be true. In any profession, past expertise does not imply high competence at managing similar expertise. When you have a real expert who also becomes a very good manager, that's great, but it doesn't happen as often as we'd like.

That said, with regard to Koeman managing Dowell, the move to Forest will likely be beneficial, but at the same I can't help but feel that giving Dowell game time with us could be even more beneficial. Dowell has developed noticeably in a year, and there's every reason to think he could make an impact with us this season.

Dennis Ng
17 Posted 13/08/2017 at 11:05:29
Tony 15, I hope the two kids will get loans before the window closes. As it stands, we're kinda full at those positions already. Looking forward to Dowell being back with us as a first teamer, though not sure when that will happen if we keep buying.
Neil Thomas
18 Posted 13/08/2017 at 11:10:04
I think it's a great move for the lad. There is not a more competitive or physical league in Europe than the Championship.
Peter Gorman
19 Posted 13/08/2017 at 11:14:18
Have only seen brief highlights of the game and the goal was not one of this trademark screamers but who cares.

What I did notice is his vision for a through-ball and that fact that the crowd were audibly excited every time he was on the ball.

Tony Abrahams
20 Posted 13/08/2017 at 12:27:46
Dennis, kenny has got to go out on loan because it's obvious that the manager doesn't trust him, but I hope Lookman stays, because he looks like a player to me, and why did we pay so much money for him, if he can't be trusted either?

One for the future, or two, or three? But we will have to be careful because "players only love you, when they're playing". Especially if they think they are ready, and are not being given a chance?

Good to hear that about Dowell, Peter, because if a player can excite the crowd, then he's already on his way, and the experience that he's now gaining, will be invaluable in the future, and can only stand him well, in this very difficult sport. Let the young kids play, and they shall learn!!

Dave Abrahams
21 Posted 13/08/2017 at 13:57:14
Dennis (17) ' we're kinda full in those positions already' really Dennis, at right back and wingers, could have fooled me.
Phil Walling
22 Posted 13/08/2017 at 20:20:00
Anybody mentioned young Dowell? He got one for Forest yesterday! I guess he's halfway to being ex-Everton!
Peter Gorman
23 Posted 13/08/2017 at 23:38:31
Sleep well, Phil.
Jamie Sweet
24 Posted 13/08/2017 at 23:59:52
Forest fans already salivating over his obvious quality. Some saying he's standing out by a mile whenever he's on the ball. That from just two substitute appearances.

Going to be very interesting following his progress there.

James Flynn
25 Posted 14/08/2017 at 00:13:18
Speaking of our loanees, this from a report of Sunderland's win:

Tyias Browning, 8/10 - Simply outstanding. Read play excellently all afternoon, showed excellent instincts, awesome showing.

Brendan Galloway, 4/10 - A clear weakness in the team. Awful in the first half, slightly better after the break.

Jamie Sweet
26 Posted 14/08/2017 at 00:58:31
Good to see Sunderland fans can't agree on player performances either, James. From the Chronicle:

Galloway – 7 Defended well and got forward at every opportunity.

Dennis Ng
27 Posted 14/08/2017 at 01:29:45
Tony (#20), I was guessing the same for Lookman and hopefully he will get good minutes. Based on the rave reviews of our kids on loan so far, I think it bodes well for years to come. Now we just have to improve things on this end.

Dave (#21), Koeman mentioned that he wants more signings in the positions you're thinking of, but my opinion is that Koeman wants more experience rather than the youths we already got. I do think we already have bodies there but perhaps the step down is too risky to Koeman?

James Flynn
28 Posted 14/08/2017 at 10:52:40
Jamie (26) - Yeah, we all see what we want.

They're both getting game time, though. That's the most important thing.

Barry Pearce
29 Posted 14/08/2017 at 11:34:02
Just my opinion, but I believe, we should have kept Dowell. From what I've seen so far he's equally as good as Klaassen, and would probably be more effective.

I know people are saying it will take time for him (Klaassen) to adjust to the Premier League, but dDowell did well in preseason. I maybe missing something, but Dowell looked ready to make the step up.

Bill Griffiths
30 Posted 14/08/2017 at 11:48:07
Tony (#20), I know where you are coming from wanting Lookman to stay and fully agree to some extent. But if he's just going to sit on the bench and not be used he's probably better off going on loan to another Premier League or Championship club.

He's never going to develop just sitting on the bench. I'd have put him on instead of Mirallas on Saturday.

Andrew Keatley
31 Posted 14/08/2017 at 11:56:12
Spurs gave a start to Kyle Walker-Peters at right back in yesterday's away game against Newcastle (with Kyle Walker gone to Man City and Kieran Trippier injured).

Walker-Peters played left back in the same England Under 20 team as Dowell – and more pertinently – Jonjoe Kenny, who held the right back spot throughout the tournament.

Jonjoe Kenny was not in the squad for the first game of the season. Instead he played for the Everton Under-23s on Friday night, despite the fact that our own first-choice right back Seamus Coleman is recovering from a long-term injury.

Walker-Peters is a terrific prospect, and delivered a strong performance for Spurs which earned him the MotM award. Throwing him in on the first day of the season, away from home, at a club like Newcastle, could have back-fired. But it didn't. Pochettino clearly felt like Walker-Peters was up to it, and he was proved right.

I really wish that Koeman had done the same with Jonjoe Kenny. The fact he decided to play a system involving Calvert-Lewin as a right wing-back instead leaves me scratching my head in total bemusement. And if I was Kenny I reckon I'd be a tiny bit disillusioned.

James Watts
32 Posted 14/08/2017 at 12:01:24
Barry (#29). You are definitely missing something if you think Dowell is a better bet than Klaassen. They don't even play in the same position for starters!
Barry Pearce
33 Posted 14/08/2017 at 12:37:45
James (#32),

Tell me what position you think Dowell plays.

Please don't tell me he's a winger.

Phil Walling
34 Posted 14/08/2017 at 13:01:15
However good he is, I bet he never gets a start for Everton. Like so many of our academy graduates, he'll get a few loans and then be discarded.

The kids who do get a game are almost always – Davies is the exception – ones who were signed for fees, having been spotted by our Talent Master General.

Dermot Byrne
35 Posted 14/08/2017 at 13:08:04
Why do you think that is, Phil? When they make the decisions that make this alleged strategy by the the club, what do you think the thought process may be?
James Watts
36 Posted 14/08/2017 at 13:17:37
Barry (#33). Nope, not a winger. When I've seen U23 games he's played the inside forward role, or the number 10 role where we have players such as Rooney, Sandro, Mirallas, Lookman, Calvert-Lewin (albeit out of position) & possibly Glyfi. Dowell at his current level won't see many games in front of them, especially with Koeman in charge. The loan was the right thing to do.

Don't forget U23 games where you see him score isn't the whole picture. The lad is still very in and out of games. Talented, very, but needs a run of games which he is getting at Forest. And if he kicks on, he'll be in the squad next year.

Barry Pearce
37 Posted 14/08/2017 at 13:40:41
James (#36). Correct, that's what I thought Klaassen was brought in for. For more productivity (goal scoring) that's what Dowell can offer.

Like all Evertonians, I want Klaassen to be a success, as with any signing we make, but apart from a shot into the side netting. I haven't seen anything from Klaassen, that Dowell couldn't do better. To me if your good enough your old enough. Like I said earlier, it's my opinion, and you have got yours.

Obviously Ronald doesn't see it the same way as me.

David Barks
38 Posted 14/08/2017 at 13:49:47
Let's just calm down on this front. Dowell could end up being very good and I hope he is. I hope he has an incredibly productive loan spell and comes back to us with a wealth of professional experience. But Klaassen is a 20 goal scoring captain of Ajax, leading his club to a Europa League final.

We also have Davies in midfield, along with Rooney, trying to sign Sigurdsson, and Dowell doesn't play in a defensive role. So can we just hope he does well and comes back an experienced player ready to push on in an Everton shirt?

James Watts
39 Posted 14/08/2017 at 13:58:03
Yep, 100% correct in my view David. Barry don't worry. If Dowell is as good as we hope, he'll be on the squad pushing first XI next year. He has time.
Sam Hoare
40 Posted 14/08/2017 at 14:39:18
Phil @34 – he's already had a start for Everton hasn't he?
Geoff Williams
41 Posted 14/08/2017 at 17:07:18
Koeman doesn't appear to trust the youngsters but is happy to accept inadequate performances from the likes of Williams, Jagielka, Schneiderlin and Klaassen.

Koeman isn't interested in anything other quick results so as to improve his profile in order to get a job with a BIG team. Player development isn't something he is interested in as he only has a maximum of two years left with us.

I have little faith in him as a manager.

Mike Gaynes
42 Posted 14/08/2017 at 17:23:28
"Koeman doesn't appear to trust the youngsters..."

Yeah, right.

Except for Davies (19), DCL (20), Sandro (22) being starters, and Holgate (20) who has started 19 times for Koeman, and Lookman (19) who at least makes the gameday bench every time.

The stuff people write... geez.

Grant Rorrison
43 Posted 14/08/2017 at 18:31:27
I think it's plodders with the right attitude he likes rather than a case of youth versus experience. Players with obvious talent like Dowell are seen a 'luxury' if they don't run around enough.

Geoff Williams
44 Posted 14/08/2017 at 19:20:59
We can't all be know it alls either Mike G.
Phil Walling
45 Posted 14/08/2017 at 19:47:09
Mike Gaynes @ 42. You make my point for me very well!
Mike Gaynes
46 Posted 14/08/2017 at 20:00:43
Sorry, Phil, but I think your "point" is pointless. I assume by Talent Master General, you mean Walsh or Koeman, but they didn't sign either Holgate or Davies. Holgate was a Roberto signing.

But hey, if you want to believe that Koeman gives young players games based on who signed them, rather than how good they are, you go right ahead.

And you want to disbelieve all the folks here who have actually seen Dowell play many times for the U23s and say he's not yet ready for the Premier League, you go right ahead with that too.

Phil Walling
47 Posted 14/08/2017 at 20:05:08
I guess the same is true of Kenny, Mike. It' s no good taking a punt on the home grown talent when you've got experience pros like Martina to turn to, is it?

I bow to your superior judgement.

John Otway
48 Posted 14/08/2017 at 20:08:45
Geoff Williams (#44). How sad is that when Mike Gaynes has done you up like a kipper?
Mike Gaynes
49 Posted 14/08/2017 at 21:16:52
Phil, can't answer that one. It's not my judgement, it's Koeman's.

My point was that he gives his young players opportunities based on his opinions of their play, not whether he signed them. IMO, if he picks Martina over Kenny, it's because he thinks Martina will do a better job. Not because a previous regime brought Kenny through the program.

Personally, I'd love to see Kenny get his chance, the sooner the better. But I don't see him in practice. Koeman does.

Carl Rutherford
50 Posted 24/08/2017 at 01:06:30
Found this link for Dowell's contributions for Forest during his loan so far. Love the pass with the outside of the boot for their #10.

William Cartwright
51 Posted 24/08/2017 at 03:36:22
Des , Anthony; Absolutely spot on. Keiron is and will be a top, top player but he is emotionally not quite ready for the cut and thrust of the ever increasing gamesmanship in the premier league. The loan at Forrest will do him the power of good. Tom Davies was ready attitude wise and he is also learning from the treatment he received during the City game.

The sad thing about having a commercial monied approach to the game, although we are not at the Manure level, is that only the very exceptionally talented will push their way through. However many will achieve a solid career for themselves.

If it is a choice between a premier quality youngster coming through or a 'better' purchased star player, the the better player will likely be Moshiri's call. It is becoming a different world for us and the youngsters.

This argument holds up theoretically, but I am unsure about the position of Kenny at full back. However just because he hasn't been thrown into the first 11 during the first few games of the season does not mean he is a write off. Let's relax a bit and see where he is come mid-season.

Cuco Martina (much maligned) has put in some good performances so far and has established his credentials as a good squad player. It is a squad game after all.

Back on topic, I think Dowell will get his chance. Along with the likes of Walsh and Onyekuru, and I hope they are good enough to take it. DCL is taking his chance it seems and that has been a really pleasant surprise for me.

Joseph Terrence
52 Posted 24/08/2017 at 05:40:01
I think it ought to be the case that Koeman deserves credit for bringing through youngsters. DCL is perhaps the ultimate example as I, and many others on TW, were unsure as to why Koeman has shown so much faith him since the tailend of last season. However, recently DCL has shown that he indeed is a quality player and has something to offer to the squad. As Mike G pointed out, he hasn't been shy to give Davies, Holgate, Lookman and even Pennington (in a derby nonetheless) playing time. By all means, if a TW poster believes that Dowell or Kenny deserves a chance in the first team then they are entitled to that opinion, but to say that Koeman solely looks at experience and 'his guys' that he brought in is nonsense. Just keep in mind that he is paid £6m a year to nake these decisions and that means something.
James Watts
53 Posted 24/08/2017 at 05:58:07
I think we need to be careful not to hype Calvert-Lewin up too much. He has had one excellent game. One. The others when he's played up front he's done okay, no more than that for me. I too can see the talent but the reason I urge caution, well us fans get a bit carried away sometimes and when said player doesn't quite live up to standards for a couple of games he gets slaughtered. None more so than on here.

When Koeman first came I brought into the 'doesn't play youth' mantra too. He was forced into playing Davies but from then on he seems to have put more trust in the youth in general. Of which I'm very happy about. Possibly too much faith by throwing Pennington in against them lot for his first game of the season!

None of the lads who have gone out on loan are ready for the first XI, including Dowell. Koeman has his faults, but playing younger players isn't one of them. Not in my book.

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