Everton and Hadjuk Split charged over crowd trouble

Having witnessed first hand the ugly scenes at Goodison last night, I wonder what sanctions UEFA will take against Split and it's hooligan elements.

My guess, it will be a pathetic 'small' fine and a warning. In reality, we could easily have had a fatality last night. Hurling a wooden seat at anyone risks serious injury and possibly death.

The young kid acting as ballboy along that touchline, certainly had a narrow escape, and could have been seriously hurt.

What is it with (mostly) east european fans when they travel away, we seem to go back to the dark old days of organised violence.

I remember in Turkey, when a Leeds United fan was stabbed to death, some years ago.

Are there still remnants of the hatred being displayed towards anyone who is deemed 'western' in culture, or is it something more basic than that?

It certainly won't be a pleasant prospect for any Evertonians travelling to Split, which by any accounts, is a really nice city.

Thoughts anyone?

Uefa's response is typically pathetic. If there was any justice, Hajduk would be banned for a couple of seasons at least.

In their favour, the first missile I saw thrown was from the Park End into their end. Though it was impossible for me to see a coin thrown from their end into the Park End first, that may well have happened.

I can say for sure, we walked down Bullens Road before the game and just by looking at how their fans stood in packs, moved like they owned the place, and looked like very confident people, you could tell in a heartbeat the slightest incident would lead to them going all chest out.

I hope every single travelling blue going over there is very vigilant. Guarantee there will be at least a small group of their plastic gangsters organising another chest episode. Be safe blues and hopefully enjoy your trip.

Yes - they had more knobheads per capita than we did, but one or two tits in the park end were throwing objects (I saw something fall into the area where these non-participating fans were sitting) - and some of our 'big men' were merely standing up throwing insults from the relative safety of their seats - so our club's name is tarnished thanks to our own.

They came looking for trouble and if you look up their recent history they've got lots of form. With them, it's not about footballing rivalry, it's about nationalism and tribalism.

The whole thing was orchestrated by a couple of band leaders who spent the entire game conducting the performance with their backs to the pitch. If any blame lies with the security at the ground it is with the police and stewards for allowing these clowns to run the show unmolested. The club have already been fined and forced to play behind closed doors this year for violent conduct of the Torcida (Brazilian name for 'fans' which they adopted). Sorry for the genuine fans but I think a ban from European competition is called for.

Had the police or the stewards moved in and told them to pack it in, then I imagine it would have kicked off even more.

It's completely absurd because all they are doing is holding a knife to the throat of their 'beloved' club. I've been living in Warsaw for 20 years and, in the few times I've been to watch Legia Warsaw play, the majority of fans are totally uninterested in the actual game. It's all about creating a theatre and atmosphere of intimidation (admittedly quite impressive as a spectacle).

Alas, nothing significant has changed to address hooliganism in Polish football and I guess the dynamics are similar in Croatia. With English football, certain events did converge to force those at the top to confront the scourge once and for all. And look where we are now!

Change from the top in Central and Eastern Europe is not an option for the foreseeable future – neither the government, the footballing authorities, the police nor the clubs themselves have the spine to 'confront' the problem. Why, given the amount of money that is at stake, is this still the case? The answer lies somewhere between the political contamination of football across the region and weak leadership.

By way of illustration, the current government in Poland actively encourages the type of violent behaviour that we witnessed yesterday, and shamelessly courts the Ultras in order to further its political aims. Politics, nationalism and racism are the raison d'être of the average fan in this part of the world, sadly.

It could be a lively trip to Split.

I'm afraid I don't have the answer but my feeling from the start (shared by those who saw them in town and outside the ground) was that they had not come to support the team but to start a fight and it may well have been sparked by a signal from those conducting things from the front - certainly it looked to me, from the Park End, as if the violence was not spontaneous.

The Everton fans who responded in kind should be ridiculed (1) - for bringing the club intro disrepute;
and (2) - for being such pathetic shots (most of the missiles seemed to bounce off our own stewards).

I'm thinking we'll get something in that region, and Split around 30K. Easy money going into UEFA's coffers. Unless the Croatians have previous issues, I can't see anything more serious than that.

On a related point, how good is the CCTV at Goodison. A couple of seasons back at Stamford Bridge I watched stewards close in on a bloke who had been spotted smoking. He tried to deny in, but the CCTV operator checked it out and gave him a final warning. Do we have anything like that?

She was visibly shaken; I told her not to worry – the police and stewards would stop it. But she said "I knew I shouldn't have come, I'll never come to another game."

I know it wasn't too bad and I've seen a lot worse, but it's still shame on all involved.

His reference the referee was more to do with the pathetic of response from UEFA in putting up equal blame at this point in time to both clubs (be it right or otherwise). He felt their response was equal to their appointment of the referee, which I felt was fair comment.

It now seems that TWers who witnessed the thugs at close hand are saying both sides were to blame and I am sure UEFA will eventually see EFC fans as the lesser evil. I for one couldn't see that from watching on YouTube (I live abroad). It still remains the referee was of poor standard.

Once they were 1-0 down it started to kick off from their fans after what I thought was good humour before that. They were then throwing objects and rushing the crowd towards the Park End. I saw three or four plastic Coke/Dr Pepper-type bottles thrown from us to them and immediately thought "You few knob heads haven't just done that. The entire home crowd have. Well done!" When will a handful of pricks learn we are all affected by action, even reaction.

Before the match even kicked off my father had to report one of them to the local police. We were in the shop car park getting my 8-year-old daughter's shirt printed when they all came through with their escort. I felt intimidated by some of them and that doesn't happen easily.

One walked up to the fence facing us in the car park, pulled out his cock and proceeded to piss into the bushes and car park. My Dad got the attention of the police officer two paces to the bloke's left and reported it to only get the following reply: "I know, they've been doing it all the way up here." Why the Hell have you done nothing then fella?!!!

What would happen if we were pulling stuff like that right next to the police on the return leg? We all know the answer. Our police are impotent.

We shouldn't wet our pants or demand summary executions; these days, every minor upset seems to require herd lamentation and the drawing of disproportionate conclusions.

Perhaps I am naive but I thought their uniformity was refreshing and entertaining. It didn't cross my mind it could have been orchestrated in any negative fashion.

In the past we have had away fans putting on a show (Bronby and Athens spring to mind) which were pure fun/taking the piss but I felt there was a menace about last night which was deliberately intimidating.

I hope there is no carry over to the second leg and that our fans get there and back without incident - in which case I will happily accept that I'm a pious and pompous prick who overreacted to a bit of harmless posing.

However, we should get this little kerfuffle into perspective. I can remember Man Utd having the whole of the old Park end in the late seventies, breaking the windows in the bogs (Georgian wire reinforced) at half time and hurling it into the Enclosure!

A mate of mine had a nice piece hit his knee as he sat on a crash bar, ruining his brand new Brutus Gold jeans, just a few inches from my bonce.

I wouldn't assign much blame to that side of things.

Sorry mate but you ARE naive in your thinking on this one. We're referring to well organized paramilitary violent thugs. The singing was organized, the kicking off was organized as were the signals to cease and replace the flags.

Once the flags went back up, I knew it was over and it wasn't by chance, it was organized. If you had any knowledge of how these fanatics work and what they're about, you wouldn't find them refreshing and entertaining, well you shouldn't anyway.

I love Mo Besic but with the nationalism over there I hope he stays home, too many retards in them there parts.

My worst experience was at Old Trafford when Bob Latchford scored 2. It happened at Goodison as well ,the club getting fined and having to do something about it.

I just hope the away support have security at Split.

They told me they'd had had the visiting militia there Wednesday night and Thursday afternoon and warned me there'd be a kickoff.

His daughter was the victim of loud and obvious sexual references made in her direction even though they were talking in their own language. He couldn't really understand why, if it was so obvious to him that trouble was in the offing, nothing was done to prevent these sickos from entering the ground.

He made the point that UEFA should ban the wearing of paramilitary style clothing or uniforms to matches, which would make it easier to identify trouble makers who currently stay hidden behind a veil of anonymity by being dressed the same as the rest of their compatriots. A simple but easy fix to a widespread European problem. Ditch the paramilitary look or be refused entry to any football ground in Europe.

Alan #40, my thoughts exactly, regarding Mo. The former Yugoslavia is a cauldron, and I agree he should be left behind.

My brother-in-law is currently in Zagreb, and was thinking of going to the game, next week, but he's giving it a pass now, and I don't blame him.

As for Split, it is a test of the authorities' desire to make an example. If they have already had to play behind closed doors as a punishment, common sense would dictate at least the same outcome for this game coming up.

I personally hope it's a ban so we go straight through. But unfortunately with past form from UEFA, I can see a fine and allowing several thousand Everton fans to walk into a Croatian hell...

Usually I agree with you but in this case I think you're wrong. If I were there would I have retaliated? Probably yes in the heat of the moment but that doesn't make it right.

Sadly Eastern Europe has a real problem with violent vigilante groups. I understand the desire to punish the team but as an Evertonian I know how it is to be tarred with the same brush and punished for the actions of others. Let's face it. Hysel was a disgrace but there were many decent well behaved footie fans there too alongside the criminal elements. Realistically there's only so much a club can do. I don't know the answer. It's a societal problem but I'm not in favor of blanket bans of clubs.

Mike, I went to Inter's last home game the season before last and during the whole game there were half a dozen guys that spent the match with their backs to the pitch orchestrating the home support.

The only times they faced the pitch were half time and to watch the replay of the goals on the big screen.

Must be a European thing, paying to not watch a match?

The events of Thursday night (as I saw it) were initiated deliberately by a significant proportion of the Away Fans.
Sadly, a pathetic minority of home fans took it upon themselves to disport themselves as "Billy big bollocks".

I am more ashamed with this latter bunch than I am saddend with the medieaval posturing of our visitors.

Imagine if there had been a real fight between fans that lead to more fighting between fans and potentially abandonment of the match.

Whilst I hate the idea of not having fans at our away games I'm worried about the policing out there and potentially what could happen if our fans get proper attacked and then understandably retaliate.

Don't want our European adventure to go down that route!

Here's praying the Croatian police and stewards outdo themselves next week.

UEFA and FIFA have demonstrated there reluctance to punish clubs for their misdemeanors. You only have to see the racist abuse that is handed out to black players in Italy with very little action taken against the clubs involved. Maybe a punitive fine or close a small section of the ground for a game. But if they started deducting points from these clubs they and their fans would soon put a stop to it all. FIFA have deemed it fit to offer 2 world cups to 2 nations who are openly anti gay, as well as other considerations.

Did you watch any of the game during the "trouble" to make so many observations.? The way I saw it was a load of lads tanked-up at the away game acting like tanked-up lads at the away game.

There is a lot more to be concerned about than lads being lads. It's not right but come on.

Can I just say, as this game is still in the school summer holidays in this country, there is a good chance there might be some young children, as well as women, who may be going over to Split for the game. These same children / women could also be reading this thread, and quite frankly, all people are doing, is putting the fucking fear of God up them.

I'm going over with some mates, and while we will be keeping a very low profile, we expect the whole journey to pass peacefully.

Another thing. The game last Thursday was probably the first time most of the Split fans had ever been to an English premier league ground, so obviously, they wanted to make a real impression, after all, we all know the reputation English fans have with foreign fans. Split fans will have no personal vendetta against Everton fans next week, so hopefully, as I say, the whole trip will pass peacefully.

We've all seen the videos of their home games, and while the atmosphere will be hostile and intimidating, this is natural for a lot of eastern European clubs.

In the meantime though, can I please ask for no more posts making next week out to be the start of WW3, not until at least next Wednesday afternoon when most of us will have left for Split. My missus is unaware of the trouble last Thursday, and I haven't told her, otherwise she will be shitting herself for a few days.

Anyway, let's all hope for a peaceful trip and a good Everton win on the night.

I know you said shut up, but be careful mate, simply because a man of your experience knows that these Split fans couldn't fight a real firm. sorry mate, but it's in places like this were safety in numbers really is important.

Enjoy yourself Rob, you have my total respect, and I hope I've called this one wrong, and you have a fucking ball mate!

Like Tony has said above, I really hope we are both wrong and the travelling Evertonians have a great trip without any troubles but have a bad feeling about this game, stay safe mate.

"The way I saw it was a load of lads tanked-up at the away game acting like tanked-up lads at the away game".
Well then, that's okay, isn't ? Invading the pitch and throwing broken seats indiscriminately into Home Fans section is acceptable because they were tanked-up?

Makes you wonder why Stewards are even necessary to begin with.

I am looking forward to the trip to Split and like Rob I have left my missus blissfully ignorant about the trouble last Thursday.

If they were known trouble makers why were they not detained at the airport?

I look forward to seeing you at Goodison in the near future where I am sure as always we can all enjoy the game and a few pints in peace, both before and after the game.

Anyway, my main point for writing this is due to the fact my son is about to travel to Croatia for the second leg and we are quite worried. He's a good lad, sensible and not one for trouble. He works in London and the other evening got talking to a Millwall fan who asked him which team he supported; my son told him Everton and got into a conversation about football and the people who thrive on the violence side of the game.

It turns out that Millwall had some trouble out there some years ago with the so-called Ultras, I think, and this fan and five mates are going out for the second leg with only one intention – trouble. He even showed my son the flight details on his phone. He is also meeting up with other Millwall fans out there.

Now what worries me is they will be in full Everton attire and mixing with genuine Everton fans. My son also knows a Croatian journalist who was over here for the first leg and she has warned him that the word over in Croatia is it is all about to kick off and to be very careful.

Why have split not been kicked out of the tournament? Or at very least, the game played behind closed doors in an empty stadium? I think its a disgrace and should be classed as urgent to stop any genuine fans from being hurt and our wonderful football club being maimed.

Rob, Well said it is not the start of WW3 and for most it will be no worse than the normal away game. For all those fretting, the usual rules apply, if you look for trouble you will find it. If you behave as a normal person you will be fine.

I found Croatia to be an amazing country with lovely people and would love to go back. It is not a war zone, FFS they even shoot Game of Thrones in Dubrovnik.

Those fans who are lucky enough to be able to afford to go and can get time off work are no doubt fans like Rob, who are used to following Everton abroad and are fully aware of what goes on at away games and don't need these comments. I would love to be able to go and visit Split and enjoy the game and no doubt the tremendous atmosphere generated by their ultras (one of the oldest ultra groups in Europe).

Unfortunately myself and my 20-year-old son will have to hope we get the right result and wait for the group stages to arrange our European games. I can't get time of work or afford to go.

No doubt will be in a foul mood Thursday morning going in to work as I would rather be in Split watching the blues and enjoying the atmosphere in a passionate football mad city. To all those going, enjoy and just think how lucky you are, there are some of us stuck at home who would love to be there. COYB.

This needs to be snuffed out very quickly and a "softee" response from Uefa would not help at all. A problem with the way the "authorities" tend to respond to such problems is that they hurt the clubs and the good fans, who have little or no control over the behaviour. Possibly, with modern surveillance technology, the Croatian and British Police should be able to pick out the ringleaders and come down hard on them.

Please let's not have a repeat of the angry late 60's, the 70's and early 80's!!!

Uefa has not done enough to punish the clubs – we should see expulsions, not fines. The fans will change if their fellow supporters get pissed off with them.

I think that the few obvious "choir masters" at Goodison should have been ejected from the ground. The boneheads could see that they weren't going to get charged by riot police, so were happy to kick off!

My son is also going out to Split, and I am very concerned about this game. I too hope the threats are just that, and everybody gets home safe and sound.

Surely after Split's previous "form", Uefa should have acted swiftly and done something, ie, closed home games or even expulsion, any trouble and fingers will be pointed at Uefa (yet again).

Yes it could have escalated had the Police gone in, but away from the match, why were these guys not arrested and allowed to be free to attend the second leg.

If you think for one minute Me and fellow fans are trying to scare people away, you could not be more wrong, I would be concerned any Children travelling or Women, there will be more friendly and safer games to attend, I bow to Rob who has travelled all over following the Blues, something I did until the past four years where circumstances have had an impact of me attending more games.

I was at Villa Park in 82 when five of us not in the escort got chased and the later getting his jaw smashed and wired, but that was isolated.

I've seen battles in the seventies and scary as well, I do not scare easily and thankfully modern Day football is a fans sport in England, with tough sentences and bans for trouble makers.

The difference over there is there seems to be no such tollarance, that is why me and fellow fans are just a little bit apprehensive about this game, because they seem to be able to do as they like without fear of bans or arrests.

Stay safe fellow Blues, but make sure you stay in groups, I really hope it goes the way Rob and other posters think, Jesus I would be made up to look a right Charlie, never would I be more delighted at being wrong, please be careful over there.

My aim was at the ultras.

Fans have been given a fanzone but have been advised not to display any banners, wear club colours and not get drunk and to stick together, I feel a little bit better that they have designated an area for Evertonians and they will be getting an escort to the stadium, better safe than sorry and glad the Everton website has published details on staying safe.