Dismal display shows no change in poor form

Beginning to think Koeman is a charlatan.

No wonder we have so many players who won't move to take a pass or take a chance and take a defender on and some who won't even cross the halfway line.

Lookman, Kenny, Davies and other young players might find it more difficult to start these days as we've bought in new players for their roles.

We've tried to make too many changes. Two or three new faces in a starting 11 is enough to start with. It's going to take half a season for us to gel because Koeman doesn't even know how he wants to play, Mirallas still on the bench.

Whatever... quickly losing interest. Poor poor planning from Walsh and Koeman.

No pace and no width – looks like we are playing for a draw.

I am just hoping that he is keeping Lookman for the home return game.

I don't understand the decision to play Besic ahead of Gueye. We all know who the vastly better player is, and Gueye was one of the few not to completely disgrace himself on Saturday. Klaassen has been sacrificed to make it a front 4 – probably the right choice at the moment.

I'm fascinated to see Vlasic in action. Koeman clearly isn't wasting any time with him.

I understand the decision to play Stekelenburg ahead of Pickford today. I understand that in the modern game, the second choice keeper often appears outside the league, but surely just in the domestic cups and not on the continent? Strange.

No Lookman or Kenny, Pickford on the bench, that's all bad enough... but Besic, dear god – you might as well get a chicken, decapitate it, and send it out in the colours!!!

This man has to go, he's an imbecile.

Koeman has spent a fortune but, it's looking increasingly like a lot of money down the drain. What can Moshiri be thinking?

We are shit, the manager is shit, and our season could be over before it starts.

We're doomed!!!!!!

Disgraceful. Koeman Out!

Koeman, pack your bags and fuck off, you've destroyed the team in no time. I'm seriously worried about Everton's long term status in Premier League.

Koeman needs to be sacked based on this crappy start.

I want Koeman out but I am less annoyed with him tonight than with the lazy, inept, unfit shithouses who are shaming us all.

This cannot go on. The only consolation is that we are unravelling early enough in the season for it to be put right. Action must be taken. The manager must go with his coaching staff and we must have a fresh start.

Please don't let us hear from the "get a grip" merchants tonight.

The whole team looks wrong, poor passing, second to every ball, no width, no forward, poor defence... we are a joke.

Koeman, your team, your responsibility. Your failing. Absolutely no positives, nothing learnt.

I really don't want to see the second half. It's too fucking painful.

I say sack him. He is worse than Martinez. I have no clue who to get. I'm not manager shopping – I simply believe he has been found out. Too big a club, too big an ask. Not his fault, he's just not up to it.

Just hope he has the decency to resign and that Unsy takes over. Lost for words. We haven't played well even in preseason, not one game. I can't think of any positives with this team not one. So sad.

At the back, drop Holgate, he hasn't got a clue... does not track, out of position too often.

Keane and Jags in the middle, drop Besic.. was Schneiderlin playing? If so, drop him.

It says so much that we have to hope Nassie can do a job for us.

I'm starting to believe that the players are playing to get him the sack because he's pissed too many off. Anyone, remember what happened when he was at Valencia? History repeating itself I think.

Need a manager to tighten things up. Big Sam or David Moyes.

Things must change quickly.

The game is bent like a boomerang. Unlike the boomerang however it won't come back.

Praying for a miracle and divine intervention, the next few days. Let's hope Man Utd have an off-day too.

We're not that desperate.

That said, No 36 makes a valid point. Yes, the manager will bear the brunt but the under-performing players escape the inquest.

Is it me or has Schneiderlin been woeful this season? He looks unfit - plain anc simple.

As for Besic, looking keen and pumped isn't enough at this level. There comes a time when you can expect a player to say to himself, "What am I going to do to improve this?"

Too many prefer to ride the wave of the fans' dismay at the manager rather than take a look at themselves and ask some serious questions about their own levels of application. They do so as they are aware that they are lacking.

Why do these players find it so had to make simple passes to colleagues? No goal threat; sideways or backward passes, or worse still, just give it away. Bullied out of possession, just like Spurs, and every time Koeman plays 3 at the back, we get battered.

Forget about Europe, this team don't look capable of staying in the Premier League! We won't score on Sunday either, and what's the betting on Lukaku bagging a brace?

I said at the start of the season we will finish 8th; now I can see we won't as we will go down. I wanted Benitez and still do.

We can blame players and they deserve a bit tonight, but I can't believe that a manager that can't make this squad even competitive could retain his job. Shocking transfer policy aside, we should be getting far more out of what we've got.

I am sorry to those who perceive this as a defence of Koeman. It is not. However, scapegoating the manager to the exclusion of the players isn't fair or just.

After the hammering this weekend, surely Koeman's time is up. Unsy in as caretaker, Rooney benched.

I would give the job to Unsworth at least till Christmas; he knows what we expect and his record with the youngsters is impeccable.

If he insists on playing 3 attacking midfielders with no wings, then at least push the defence and the defensive midfielders about 40 yards up the pitch. Or we are just sitting ducks each week.

No wingers
No pace
3 expensive players wanting to play 10
No creativity
No goals
No full back cover
Two over the hill centre halves

Manager playing golf!
No stadium news

Shambles!!!!

This competition is a double whammy: we look hopeless on the European stage and get thrashed in the Premier League games on a Sunday. I'd take Unsworth or Benitez. This isn't good enough.

The other damning thing, in case it had escaped the notice of our ludicrous board, is that we have no proper striker.

The final damning thing is that this is the worst Everton set-up I have ever seen.

The empty trophy cabinet, the laughing stock, the wooden stadium more like.

If Benitez ever got the Everton job, I'd burn Goodison down. Fuck me, some of our fans have got short memories.

If we get the ball, their players are right in our faces, but when they have it we are standing off them by 2-3 yards.

I noticed from minute 2 that players were lightly jogging and often walking.

Has Koeman maybe list the dressing room? He is known to be arrogant and a bit cocky, mate that's rubbed players up the wrong way?

Atalanta could have had 6-7 Tonight. We have been thumped in last 3 games without even scoring a single goal.

Absolutely woeful

What struck me most about their interview, was their seriousness and abruptness – the Dutch way, I know, but it is very telling.

A team usually epitomises the characteristics of the manager they are learning from.

With Koeman, his management style and team will unfortunately be dispassionate, aloof and cold, which is starting to reflect in the players.

We have to give Unsworth a chance, he's got to be good at management as he won the U23s league last season. He can't do any worse than this, it's humiliating.

This is unbelievably shocking, not one football brain in this team. They can't play the ball forward to a teammate, totally gutless, inept and worst of all, no pride and fight from these overhyped, overpaid prima donnas.

He has to play the kids, they can't possibly be any worse than this.

Sandro needs a run in the team as the forward and either Klaassen or Sigurdsson playing in the position they were bought for. I'm sure I'm in a tiny minority here.

It's as though he has thrown any 11 players out there and just gone "go on lads, you'll work it out". It's all very well getting excited at loads of quality players coming in, but once you have them, you have to now prove why they were required.

Basics like running faster and being in their faces to me are the benchmark and the bare minimum. So why does nothing change??

So I'll just leave it to Chris Sutton as match summariser to comment on Everton tonight:

"It's not about tactics, it's about desire and workrate."

"No flow, off the pace, second best all over the pitch".

Atalanta were "more aggressive, a yard sharper, fluent, fitter, clearer in their minds" and the team who "wanted it more".

Everton were "abject, embarrassing, gutless, weak, ponderous."

As for Koeman after Saturday: "Has he had a response tonight? Absolutely not."

Koeman: "Atalanta showed more passion" – well, Koeman, isn't that something you should instill into your players?

Sorry, pal, off you go!!!

I couldn't agree more.

Not sure what to make of that, but at least he seems to be taking some responsibility for that performance.

We cannot pass a ball. We do not move to collect a pass. We are constantly trying to chip balls over the opposition to our players fucking move into space, control and move every team we play does it, why can't we?

He was, apparently, a world class defender. Well, coach defending, then!!! Abysmal! .

You look at the players when lining up and think they are not bad individually. Then the game kicks off and the defence is all over the place, the holding midfielders are nothing more than spectators, there is no creativity from the flair players and all the forwards do is cover ground without having a sniff of a chance. Great if your aim is 10,000 steps for your fitbit but sod all use in a game.

Not knee jerk; towards the end of last season was the same. I want to see fight, spirit and us look like we might frighten teams. Just get rid – if he has any decency, he will walk. Yeah, I know...

All the top teams... pace, power and purpose; we have none of them!

Not normally one to call for the manager's head so soon, but Koeman looks dis-interested, so get someone in who cares.

We need players on the field playing for the badge. If it takes the youth to play so be it. Kenny, Lookman, Davies all need a chance.

Mirallas needs to play, drop Besic for sure, he's not ready yet. I don't believe in this that they need to have time to gel. They get paid a lot of money and should be able to adapt.

Build up too slow and giving the ball away too much. No threat in attack so teams can come at us as they wish.

My team would be:
Pickford
Kenny
Holgate
Keane
Baines
Gueye
Davies
Sigurdsson
Lookman
Sandro
Naisse.

At least then we would get the ball forward quick enough to make the other team defend some of the time.

Yes, we lack pace. Yes, we lack a proven target man. Yet, if we just turn aggressive, the cards will start flowing.

Basically, to me, our woeful passing means we never have the ball long enough to put the opposition under pressure. Game after game after game. Just witness tonight that dreadful, lazy pass out of defence by Baines, which resulted in possession falling to Atalanta, and them going forward and scoring.

Send all the players home to write out 100 times...

"I won't give the ball away, I won't give the ball away, I won't give the ball away"

Basic bloody stuff.

Rooney is finished; Vlasic, Calvert-Lewin, Lookman, and Holgate are all too inexperienced.

Lukaku is gone and no replacement!!!!! Don't give me Sandro. I do fear for our season with Koeman in charge – he has no idea.

I very rarely post but have followed Everton (mostly at a distance for many reasons) and read ToffeeWeb for many years. Nearly 50 years support and ToffeeWeb since it started.

Sadly I have to say that tonight was almost certainly the most lacklustre, inept and demoralising display I have witnessed to date.

Organisation – zilch;
Effort – apparently (No doubt they tried) limited;
Entertainment value – zilch.
Manager? – Obviously not doing what is needed.
Players? – Seem talented but not showing?
Prospects for the season? – Poor.

Sorry, but a total waste of my time and limited energy. I have derived more pleasure lately from watching the Ninky-Nonks with my granddaughter than I have watching Everton.

Sad and hopefully about to change with the next match – I'd hate to have to say "Come on You Ninky Nonks!"

This is job number 1 of the manager before all else, to get the team to play for you, to understand and believe in you. This guy will never bring that to this team.

I have tried to find a positive but struggled to find any. We play round pegs in square holes, a clearly past it striker and play with no tactics regardless of who is in the team.

So from this I can only presume Koeman is clueless or has lost the dressing room. The fault of the players is showing no heart and disrespectful to the fans who have travelled or paid hard earned money to watch every week.

Hells teeth, who the hell are Atalanta and we make them look like Brazil 1970. All of the players look like kids hoofing the ball around the playground and when it comes to the finer points of the game they are totally useless.

No speed, no invention, no nothing. Just an absolute mess. Where the fuck were Lookman, Kenny and Davies.

Koeman is totally a dead man walking. If they want a replacement I'll happilly volunteer and play second fiddle to Rhino and Dunc. Save the club £6 million a year. Get rid of this shit asap please!!!

This is not just a car crash... this is a full-on pile-up!!!!!

When will Moshiri act? When we are in the relegation zone?

Commentary say lethargic start, where is the productivity or heart?

Sorry Mr Koeman, move over. Rhino take a bow. you're in. Joe at his elbow, Dunc adding some passion we'll be fine. Watch us go.

Walsh must take a lot of the blame not just Koeman, these days managers do not get their hands dirty dealing with buying players, they tell others what they want, ie, Walsh, and then it's over to them to find the players and the board to finance it. So if Koeman goes, so to should Walsh and his team.

Moshiri (if he really is in charge) will have to make a big decision sometime soon if this carries on.

I would guess that Koeman's criticism of himself is part of his plan for an early exit with the booty. Look I am useless you can see that for yourself and I admit it. I deserve the order of the boot.

Pity he hasn't got a plan for anything to do with football, the job he was employed and trusted to carry out.

You just know when managers won't be able to turn things around. Let's hope those in charge don't sit on their hands for another 2 months before they realise what is clearly unfolding here. There is no connection between players & manager. It doesn't matter if you are a tactical genius, if you cannot get your message across then it's time to step aside.

There is no malice on my part, but Koeman isn't clicking with this group of players, and never will; therefore, his position is untenable.

After the outlay this summer, the board may prefer to bury their head in the sand, though.

Every game this season our back four are so deep, our midfield the same. Tonight Atalanta were pressing us on our 18-yard line and we couldn't even get out of defence, how many passes went astray?

There's something badly wrong, and Koeman's transfers this summer for me summed it up. He didn't replace Lukaku, a huge error, the replacements for Barkley, who he singled out so much, embarrassing.

Oh yea, no left-back or left-sided centre-back signed, our back four are a shambles. He has to go now.

Worrying times. Has Koeman got a clue ? Has he lost the dressing room. Does Barkley know something the rest of us didn't?

The next couple of weeks will be interesting. I doubt whether the board will be able to stomach both bad results and absolutely dire performances.

Unfortunately, exactly as I predicted. The cat has gone out although she would be safe and I have spoken to my wife. I asked her if Koeman was a total disaster. She hadn't heard of him. She is the lucky one.

We have not won a trophy for 20+ years whats the common denominator in that time? The quality of the players that's what, I don't like Koeman and he's now lost supporters faith and will have to go sooner rather than later.

We had the same performances under Martinez in his last season and a half, overpaid over rated players that couldn't be bothered to raise a gallop.

Koeman has made a pigs ear of his job with us one way or another and I'm certain he should go, but how did he get Southampton to finish 6th and 7th in the league.

It doesn't add up does it, I don't think just changing the manager will make us trophy winners, it goes a lot deeper than that.

Total bloody disgrace.

Suffice to say I'm a tad disgruntled!

The trouble is Baines, Jags and Rooney are past their best-before dates, Schneiderlin is possibly pound-for-pound the worst player we've ever bought, Keane had a mare and who can blame him, Sigurdsson looks even more lightweight than Klaassen, Besic is Besic and right now Vlasic doesn't know if he's Arthur or Martha.

This shambles is all about Koeman. Barkley dispensed with. Lukaku leaves and he's no plan. Spend, spend, spend and lets see what we get. Shambles. I'd be happy with Benitez.

Koeman was a very good player. That doesn't mean he'll naturally be a very good manager. He follows the rule that most great players don't cut it as managers. Get rid. He's no clue and has simply fucked everyone off.

I also believe the protests should be like the one that sealed the fate of the last manager and the very same conclusion should show the same desire of wanting Everton to be successful.

I am an Evertonian and I am getting the blame for what is happening because of work and bigots and I will carry on and fix what is happening.

I know I'm clutching at straws here.

Play like that on Sunday and Man Utd will be in double figures by half-time.

We look like a Sunday pub team after a Grafton night, all knackered in mind tonight in soul spirit and plan.

I was willing Sevilla last night and it's crap that as it stands we are gonna get rollered in every game, as there's no fight and no sign of any fight. Surely now play some of the youngsters whom are committed, Kenny and play Holgate as a centre-back, and play Niasse, must happen vs Man Utd?

Fate and time wait for no one, but this seasons start is rapidly looking like a relegation battle unless the players, coaches and managers start showing some true grit.

The question is where will it come from?

Back to Alcatraz (work) tomorrow and it's painful.

?

I can't watch this nonsense any more, I shall immerse myself in the U23s, the autumn rugby internationals, the Ashes and so on until such time as I hear that Koeman has been sacked. William Hill have him at 8/1 that's shortened a lot recently.

Pickford
Kenny Jagielka Keane Baines
Lennon Gana Sigurdsson Mirallas
Rooney Calvert-Lewin

This team might have enough to get mid table!!! The current line up and formation is relegation fodder!!!

Absolutely woeful and lacking any character, flair, steel, skill, hunger or belief. We can't even do the basics at present. I worry for the youngsters thrown into his mess in the weeks to come, but do we have any other option when the seniors were so pitiful.

Clive (#90) quoted Chris Sutton's view very well. I usually can't stand the guy when he's on the Five Live Monday Club on the radio – but he summed it up 100% correct in his analysis.

My early summer enthusiasm has steadily faded as the weeks to the transfer deadline progressed. Our pre-season performances have not improved overall. Yes, we have had a tough start to the season – but the signs are already there that we can't guarantee picking up many points against so called lesser teams.

Anyway – wasn't this the season to push to the top 4 and start besting done of the Sky 6 for once? Poor man-management and tactical management from Koeman. A very unbalanced transfer spend leading to an unbalanced side that can't attack or defend well at present. Add a poor attitude from some players and the usual board inadequacies and it doesn't look good at all.

Relegation? Probably not (but we can't be arrogant enough to think we are too big or good to go down), but lower table mediocrity beckons unless Koeman and the team come up with a Plan B (sadly after Sunday's game, unfortunately).

Despite the views of most, Koeman probably won't be given the push (á la De Boer) just yet – but the last chance saloon is closer that it seemed a few months ago. Is it time for Moshiri to close this particular 'project' early?

Europa League v MFK Ruzomberok : Tame and unispired, fortunate to be playing a poor team

Europa League v Hajduk Split : Good 45 minutes in first leg followed by a potential pasting until Gilfudsson's "wonder/fluke" goal

Premier League v Stoke City : Fortunate to win but hardly inspiring

Premier League v Man City : Rearguard action and lots of fortune to salvage a point

Premier League v Chelsea ; Outclassed, out-thought, outplayed

Premier League v Tottenham : Outclassed, out-thought, outplayed

Europa League v Atalanta : Outclassed, out-thought, outplayed

First Four games against sub premier league oppostion
W3 D1 F5 A2

Last Five games against Premier league class opposition
W1 D1 L3 F2 A9

Crystal Palace and Bournemouth must fancy their chances against us right now.

We can not bleat about a tough start when we seem to be playing like a doormat!

Lukaku needed replacing , it was a crime not to end up with someone, even a burnt out seasoned Premiership player (Long, Walters, etc) just someone who could give us an outlet. Add to that the obvious point that we needed a left-side defensive player.

So here we are, a totally unbalanced squad, totally incapable of being sound defensively, totally incapable of scoring goals, and what is clear is that Koeman is incapable of utilising his squad – he hasn't got a clue what to do. Let's not think the kids can get us going, be our saviours, they are far too young, inexperienced and frankly just not good enough at present .

It's a relegation fight without a shadow of doubt, a soon to be exit in the Europa Cup and even being knocked out the League Cup by our reserves and rejects at Sunderland. If that happens, Koeman will be pushed out and Unsy given a go.

I already feel the same way about Koeman as I did about the final days of Martinez. I had a ticket for the semi-final against Man Utd but couldn't bring myself to go to the game as I wanted us to lose. I didn't want an FA Cup win enabling Martinez to keep his job.

Koeman has bought the wrong players, plays the wrong formation, and is the wrong manager for Everton.

I used the word cowards after the Spurs game, rather than repeat it I will use shithouses but really cowardly shithouses sounds nearer the mark.

Management and players need to have a really good look at themselves. An absolute disgraceful embarrassment

Tonight was atrocious. Koeman is making poor decisions and is not learning the harsh lessons. However, a depressing evening was made all the worse by the bile and vitriol from some of our fellow blues Calling our own manager the c-word just highlights the mob mentality that prevails – some people do not like Koeman and never will..it's almost personal.

To those people ask yourself this: If getting Unsy in will suddenly help a player pass straight to our man over 10 yards, then what the hell has that player been up to? Players' attitude stinks. The problem goes beyond Koeman

Get Marco Silva or Thomas Tuchel Before its too late. This shit can't go on.

Deffo refund all the fans that went and get a shrink into Finch Farm, as mentally these players have no stomach and are playing like cowards with no clue for a battle.

Fair play to Atalanta, they done The Dogs of War on us, as most sides this season will.

Dire Straits?

Ancelotti is available next summer. Unsworth in the meantime?

Time to act, Mr Moshiri, Koeman is wasting our time and your money. Make it soon please.

Paying Koeman off is £20M I guess. Not bad for a jumped-up failed coach.

The man needs replacing asap.

Sick of this Everton team.

Only respite is that Koeman admitted it was his fault – good, give us our £6m back.

Couldn't defend, couldn't pass and lazy in every part of the pitch.

Gomez and the big guy could have been had for £20m and we paid £65m for Klaassen and Sigurdsson who were complete shite.

Look out – here comes Man Utd!

With the amount of new players and tough fixtures we knew it would be a hard start; hoping for the new players to gel early but this looks to be a deeper problem.

How many more poor performances can Koeman take before he changes formation or before Moshiri makes the decision for him.

It's too much to hope that the in-house local newspapers will do anything apart from sit on the fence until it's safe to come down, but perhaps some more independent voices may pipe up.

I feel so sorry for the blues who follow Everton wherever they go – well done, folk, good on you all. Hoping for better times.

The problem we have is Koeman has bought these players for a specific system and he doesn't know what to do with them. Koeman just has nothing for me that gets me excited or upbeat. He never really has.

Mark Morrisey is right. Its not our job to find a manager if we want him sacked. It's the job of the board. That's a worry too. Would they ask Walsh to be involved in choosing a new man?

Kenwright would still have Martinez if he had it his way. Somehow I don't think Moshiri will let Koeman walk away with a fee like Martinez cost. He will definitely have added clauses, I imagine, if it comes to that.

I can't believe how shit we are. No fight, no passion, no grasp of the basics. I feel sorry for the fans who wasted their time and money on that shocking performance. Absolutely gutted.

The players and manager are both to blame here. I just dunno what is going on in that dressing room but something is seriously wrong. Dreading Sunday.

Time to go, Ron. The empty seats at the end of the Spurs match should be a good indication of how we feel.

I was convinced Koeman should go after this. No goals for 3.5 games. And hardly any shots. Palace got rid of their manager after they had 20 shots on goal. I was laughing with my son that under Martinez we'd often draw or lose and we'd had 65% possession and 20 shots. Now it is really bad.

But he was really honest in his post match interview saying it was about the manager. He looked perplexed why the squad weren't even trying and ready to walk

But the selections have been so strange all season. Using Calvert-Lewin over Kenny at right wing back in Game 1 sounded alarm bells.

The signings of Klaassen, Sigurdsson and Rooney now look extremely strange.

2 goals in 5 games is relegation form. It probably needs a change of manager. I'd go with Benitez for the rest of the season.

I'm trying to remember if I felt worse than this in the darkest Martinez days? I think I did. But we had less hope then.

I don't think Moyes is anywhere near the answer but I'm missing his peak Bainaar team right now.

Im optimistic by nature and the reality is that we could still win 4 trophies! But there is just so little evidence that something better is around the corner. Think he'll get another month minimum to turn the ship around. His odds of sacking will surely be dropping fast though.

What are we doing in training. All he has ever talked about is pressing and we press terribly.

Irrational positivity got me to spend £350 quid or so for Brighton tickets (my home game) for me and my sons. I have to go now.

They make me sick, all of them. Rich, idle bastards from top to bottom of the club.

It has to be time to give Davies (one of the best passers of a ball at the Club), Lookman (who will at least give width and pace and is possibly the quickest player we have) and the invisible Kenny (who many have high hopes for who the crowd will get behind) some game time and a run in the team.

It won't, obviously, but there's not a prayer you'll see wholesale changes in the near future. Mark my words, if he carries on like this, we could be looking at shipping 7 or 8 in a game if someone gets their act together. That, coupled with a chronic lack of creativity really is a recipe for disaster... It's that bad.

This is not knee-jerk. The last 3 games have been nothing short of shocking and embarrassing and a terrible insult to everyone – especially those brilliant fans who travelled there tonight, most who have probably made sacrifices. But the manager and players won't give a flying fuck about them.

No, it'll be the the usual boring mantra. "We owe ourselves a performance, we owe it to the gaffer" etc. Absolute Shite. As soon as Man Utd score on Sunday, the towel will be well and truly thrown in. Again.

The Koeman project is failing and the club should act decisively. I like Unsy but he has no experience at the top level and this is no place to start! Get in Allardyce – he knows how to organise and motivate a Premier League team. The sooner we do this, the more chance of success.

Worst football I've ever seen in 40 years as a supporter.

I was a big supporter of Koeman when he was first announced but I have just had enough of below-average performances for a long time now.

I would like to see us cut our losses on him now and give Unsy a chance. He has earnt it with the consistent top performances he gets out of the U21s/U23s over the last few years.

After Saturday's fiasco, why on earth did he go with a flat back 4 against another side with 3 at the back and wingbacks?? He said himself after Spurs that we couldn't cope with that formation but he does exactly the same thing tonight... WTF!!

We played slightly better in the 2nd half when he changed things. Déjà-vu?! Had we started the game with 3 at the back and played Kenny, or even (I can't believe I'm saying this) Martina, we'd have had players who can move up the pitch and might have had a chance of maybe grabbing a draw.

Mason Holgate isn't a wingback or a Seamus Coleman. Martina can't defend for shit but is okay going forward so play 3 at the back, Ron. It's not difficult but you're making it difficult. You keep persisting with a back four which tonight was far too reliant on Baines and Mason Holgate to get forward. Baines hasn't the legs anymore, and Holgate hasn't the ability to be offensive.

Added to that the midfielders of No 10's who get in each others way. Our defenders sit back and invite trouble whenever we lose the ball.

Finally, I think it's criminal that we didn't get a decent target man. Whoever fucked up there needs a rocket up their arse. We're now in position where we can't buy a striker, left-back and left centre-back until Jan. That's out of hands, but at least do something different with what we've got. Try 3 at the back, and give Kenny & Lookman a chance.

I'm having serious doubts on Koeman's tactical acumen after tonight's showing.

That ignominious spectre beckons, unless it is sorted one way or another immediately.

He's clearly failing at motivating his players and getting the best out of the people at his disposal. No amount of footballing knowledge can teach you those skills. Every great manager has their players wanting to bust a gut when they cross the white line.

I hate to admit it but something is very wrong. I have no idea what has happened but we are in serious trouble!

Big Sam... really! Come on, we're not that desperate yet, are we!?!?!?

We want to exit a manager who is making bad mistakes and is on a bad run – yet our chairman who has wreaked untold damage to our club for 20 years somehow remains unscathed. This club needs a complete overhaul. Sadly it appears Moshiri is not the person.

Anyone who does not think that we will be in a relegation fight unless there is a change of manager is deluding themselves – we are the worst side in the league in terms of football quality now. The absence of a real premier league striker is a particularly unforgivable failure and it remains a special embarrassment that our main funder came drivelling on to Murdoch Sky to bat that difficulty away.

Happy days. Be in no doubt, this is desperate.

There can be no excuse for a lack of fight,guts,desire and our laboured style of play invites teams to attack us.

Ronald looks very like Mike Walker to me – he has never seemed to want the job, never seemed to like the club and seems totally out of his depth.

I hope I'm wrong and he turns it around but Old Trafford on Sunday is a bleak prospect and if we are still like this for the derby...

I think we need decisive action and a young hungry manager such as the 2002 version of Moyes. No real idea who that would be but this can't just drift. Maybe give Unsy a go.

If they have downed tools, it will no doubt continue to be dreadful until Koeman is replaced.

Some sports are hard to understand and cerebral (chess, go) and deep tactical play can be very impressive there.

But there is a relationship between the quality of the performance and the entertainment value. And under Koeman there is neither skill, success, commitment or inspiration.

Koeman is a total failure. He has delivered nothing but very expensive garbage and the crowd will not be – and should not be – tolerant

Unless something drasticly changes, I seriously fear for our long-term future.

Once Man Utd give us the inevitable hammering we all expect, Koeman needs to go.

Why can't we be ruthless? If the job is not being done to the level expected, he needs to go and let someone else do the job.

Too many EFC managers have been given too long and below level performances have been accepted without question as we are not a sacking club. Martinez was given a year too long. Hopefully the same won't happen with Koeman. If he is facing the axe maybe we may see something different? If not, act.

Mourinho won the league and, the next season, when results dipped below the expected level he was sacked. Chelsea won the league the next season.

Villa-Boas was given a huge transfer kitty and bought poorly (sound familiar). Results dropped. After Sherwood was given the job for the rest of the season, they appointed Pottechino. Now look at Spurs.

The RS sacked Rodgers a year after they almost won the league when results dropped.

Mark Hughes, when he was at Man City, was given a huge transfer kitty and was sacked when results began to dip.

The last time we acted in this way was with Walker. He was given a few games into 1994-95 season with some money and new signings and was sacked after 1 win in 10. Royle was then appointed and we won a trophy which was the last time we did.

The recent results should be no surprise. The results last season after Anfield dropped off considerably. We lost poorly to Chelsea, Swansea and Arsenal. Our away performances last season in the main were terrible. There was supposed to be an improvement.

Koeman has bought poorly this summer. Sigurdsson and Klaassen should not both have been bought. Both fees were over-inflated. Funds for one should have been invested in a proper striker. Sandro is not up to this job yet and he may never be. Lukaku was clearly leaving and no replacement in place.

Rooney goes against the recent trend of buying younger, fitter players. EFC through and through but his best days are behind him.

What is the point of investing in the youth set up if we are not going to use it? There are clearly some stars in the making who should be given a chance.

Get shut now before we are left behind in the Premier League, Europa League and out of the Mickey Mouse Cup.

Steve Walsh has a lot to answer, and it would seem his Italian job in July, didn't consider assessment of Atalanta's centre-forward.. he done well, but did our crap display tonight, inflate them? Who wanted to win and who were the professionals? More and more the team at 1st team level look like frauds. The U23s have heaps of belief and have a go.

IMO, Walsh, what he done when Leicester City won the Premier League, was a fluke, he's been over hyped and Gana aside, if he was his booking, I can't see this season, any merit to the squad additions, and in context of any robust team improvement plan, there was not one and two holding midfielders who are too similar, with no pace, hasn't worked.

Keane looks clumsy and tonight Jagielka has may be convinced himself, time is ready to plan for the afterlife, may be as a coach.

Is this real and how many more embarrassments can EFC cause us? Shocking and abysmal, and we need a miracle on a Sunday.

Enough said, Arriverdercci.

Michael, so long as a decent replacement for Koeman is found fairly quickly, one who can organise and motivate (and they're out there), I don't think our long-term future is one to fear. It might not be great, but it shouldn't be disastrous. But Moshiri needs to act quickly, to save the season.

With two minutes to go, the goalie rolled the ball out to the centre-half who paused, played a backwards pass to his fellow centre-half, who in turn played it back to him. Under pressure, they then played it back to said goalie who then kicked it upfield. Do they know what they are doing?

But now I think about it, there is one thing that started to happen right after Bolasie and (later) Coleman got injured combined with selling Geri. We stopped using width and pace.

Now it has become blatantly clear that they are the two things we are desperately short of. I could live with that if we just didn't have those commodities – though that too would be a different reason to be pissed off.

But we have Dowell on loan, Lookman, Niasse, Kenny and Lennon all on the naughty step for some reason. All these would be options to at least try – and I mean for more than 60 mins, I mean a run of games.

The side and shape right now isn't working and the biggest problem of all is Koeman either cant see that or is ignoring it and that is unforgivable.

The players themselves are a disgrace too with a few exceptions. Baines, Jagielka, Williams are well and truly past it, that's not entirely their fault – age does that to the best of us but I do wish they could pass forwards occasionally.

Some are simply not good enough but that's not entirely their fault either – Besic, Sandro, Holgate (at least as a right-back), Klaassen, possibly Keane.

Some try hard and are giving 100% or at least close to it – Pickford, Rooney, Calvert-Lewin, Gueye.

Sigurdsson and Vlasic its a bit to early to tell in my opinion. Sigurdsson needs to up his game but Vlasic looks to me like he may have something. But the one who's pissed me off the most is Schneiderlin who seems to have just given up being a footballer. Two games, two goals where he has just stood flat footed in our own box with no attempt to get to either Eriksen or Marsiello tonight.

Can't beat a man, cant find their own man with a pass, rubbish marking and positioning, no pace, no creativity, lack of urgency etc.

They're getting paid a effing fortune a week; when you watch them it makes you wonder what for. Talk about overrated!

Look, the fact is that the players do not understand how Koeman wants to play, he and his staff are therefore not communicating with the players. Add to that the boardroom power struggle, the unforgivable omission of purchasing a striker and centre back, and we have a recipe for disaster.

Our situation is dire, make no mistake; at least Koeman has finally admitted the problem is his, which is at least a step in the right direction, but I fear he is too rigid in his approach to be able to turn this around.

I also have no faith whatsoever in Walsh – anyone can read stats from Championship Manager... he's a fuckin' conman as well.

If performances continue like this, we are going to win almost no matches and lose plenty. The way this lot have played against crap teams (not Spurs and Chelsea, but a couple of teams from nowhere with no good players) suggest we'll be lucky to get 20 points.

I have to agree buddy especially about Rooney; I know he's scored our only two goals but he's there to create, link-up and that's not happening. I've watched most games and he looks sluggish.

I'd play Niasse Sunday, how could we do any worse!

Where's the suggestion come from that Kenwright actively blocked the signing of a striker?

I read most of the earlier comments on this thread but not every single one...

A very disturbing rumour that suggests he might have romantically thought Rooney could do it all...!

Don't think I'm quite in the Koeman Out camp yet, but serious concerns mounting fast and a reaction is needed very soon or else I'll be changing my tune. But then maybe we can't react with this hopelessly unbalanced squad...!

The team needs a proper captain whose a controlled nark, aka Peter Reid. No more fairies and no more lazy arse, uninterested performances. All spare parts and It seems now Baines has accepted Father Time has caught up, but has almost given up. Bainaar? A life time ago, and we still didn't win a trophy.

I'd dock the wages of the players that started the game tonight and get them back in tomorrow for training. Think about fans who have saved, bunked work etc to go there today. Thank God the derby is not too close.

It's a crisis at the moment... Gutted.

Where is Everton's pace? We are a laughing stock.

Without doubt we have been badly run for many years now and unless there is a massive change upstairs things will only get worse.

Koeman has without doubt lost the players. We are in big big trouble.

Spot on; I absolutely agree.

This expensively assembled team has no pace, no width, no movement off the ball and can't string a couple of passes together.

The performance was a totally inept embarrassment and the buck stops with the manager.

Give your energy to the team because it definitely needs some.

I don't think we all realise how much of a mental drain this summer has been and the players look as confused as us.

I'm in the Koeman out camp now. Unlike Moyes and Martinez, he's had abundant resources thrown at him, and this is the result. "

The project" surely must have been to compete with the likes of Chelsea and Spurs and to comfortably see off the Atalantas of this world. I'd give Unsie a go.

Then there's the manager who's not committed to the project and to be honest never wanted the job in the first place and was swayed by the £6M salary.

Then there is the pie in the sky stadium bid which could implode at any minute. We haven't even seen any finalised designs yet.

The strange recruitment policy despite hiring Walsh (Hello – We Need a Striker!!!). The sell-to-buy mentality – we have only really spent the Stones and Lukaku money.

The failed Rooney experiment, who has let the club and himself down big time.

We're the only club in history to spend over a £100M only to end up worse.

The failure to recognise the desperate need for a centre forward when we knew Lukaku was going to leave at least 12 months ago is unforgivable. It's no good moaning about nearly getting Giroud because we never. And to not get another out and out striker in is a disgrace and poor management.

I didn't expect us to win anything this season but I did expect progress in terms of either points or style of play. At this stage I'm not convinced on either.

Without a focal point up front and a proper centre-half we are fooked. I don't see any reason why we can't look for free agents. I know is desperate but that's where we are, especially when it comes to a striker.

Those wanting Koeman out should wait till this run of fixtures is out the way.

I have had my doubts about Moshiri before now. The new stadium is bullshit. Moshiri is a Kenwright mouthpiece. Moshiri paying Koeman £6 million a year of the club's money – not his; he wants shooting.

Give Unsworth the job, see how he gets on. Anything is better than this. If we stick with Koeman we are done for. Trouble is, Kenwright hasn't got the balls to sack anyone quickly enough.

This isn't his first season here. He's spent more than any previous manager. We've gone completely backward under him.

What could be classed as a high as opposed to the shite that has been served up over the last few weeks?

"I have got Delta Cabs number in the phone ready to ring them for a pick up at Old Trafford at just after six o'clock on Sunday evening for a Mr Koeman".

Apparently you can't book a taxi from any cab company in the Liverpool and Manchester areas for Sunday at that time. I hear they've all been booked for (if not by) a certain R Koeman.

But let's remember how he took us from relegation fodder to regular top 6, Europe, semis and even a final. If he'd have had the cash we have now he'd have turned to jelly and bottled it, no, his strength was the Moneyball strategy and it worked well for us for years.

Which brings me to my point, Eddie Howe, good coach, learned a lot at Burnley, currently doing shit at Bournemouth but hey it wasn't going to last forever, I mean, it's fucking Bournemouth!

But, given a costly but underperforming squad maybe he could turn this lot around, its obvious Koeman has no tactical or inspirational charisma at all, he has already lost players who have only been here 6 weeks! So maybe it's time to give another young, hungry, British coach a massive job, he might even have a proper go at Anfield, Old Trafford etc,

For the continental Premier League newbie type, I'd go for Tuchel, could be another Marco Silva or another Koeman, De Boer – by the way, Dutch football has been on its arse for years; how come us and Palace got mugged?

Well now. Östersund won today, 0-2 in Ukraine against Zorja Luhansk and are in top of their Europa League group. They switch formation during games almost every game to adapt to the opposition. Today they switched to a 4-4-2 formation in the middle of the game and took control of it and won the game.

Here is the thing. Sigurdsson cost much more than the whole team of Östersund. How the fuck can it be that Östersund can adapt to games and change formations and Everton can not do it? Everton have a bunch of professionals that have salaries that are 50 times higher than the players of Östersund.

Koeman says that he takes responsibility for not preparing the players for the game?

What the fuck is Koeman talking about? He has one thing only to do that is preparing they players for games! What the hell have they been up to if they have not prepared for the game?? Did Koeman and the players decide to go on a short vacation before the game? Did they go out to party, or what did they do? I simply do not get it.

We have been talking about going into Europe since last year... and we come unprepaired??? I just don't get the logic here.

I am very concerned by Schneiderlin.

The front players I cannot blame either really because they have been rotated regularly and are not bedded in.

Onto the manager. Would it kill him to use Mirallas more? He hasn't got Barkley although I think we miss him greatly but at least use one fast player at your disposal who has played in most of this set up before.

Yes, we miss Coleman and Koeman might argue his pace up front went with Bolasie but what about Lookman? Lennon is lightening quick as well. They'd give the opposition something to think about because currently we're not doing that.

I'm not usually inclined to want managers out. I was sad all the times Walker, Kendall or Smith were fired (in a more innocent era) although I thought Martinez should have gone much earlier. With Moyes, I felt he was doing a good job despite the odd wobble.

But I've had this sense with Koeman that he's not for us since about last December. I think he left Barkley and Lukaku to get the goals between them because they always seemed left to their own devices in the final third. He only played Davies when forced and it paid off. Then, the final month of the season was a shower and I think he lost the dressing room then and it's carried on to now.

People have remarked that at least he's shown some humility post match – well he has no other choice. He's hung out players to dry but cannot continue to do it. He's played the "surprise" card and pointed fingers at recruitment. He doesn't have much material left although I am expecting him to compare squad outlays after we get mauled at Old Trafford.

If there is no reaction in Salford, no prospect of scoring and the same lack of tactical nous, I would suggest the board should shake hands and wish him well.

I love Everton, as I am sure most on here do; quite frankly, I am at the end of my tether. This manager has no idea whatsoever; he has been given an open cheque initially, and brought in hyper-priced, mediocre players; they have mostly disappointed.

I can't endure this pain much longer.

Sorry, guys, but I am do pissed off with that excuse of a game.

Doesn't bear thinking about how bad Sunday could be. Hide behind the sofa.

As for Rooney, two months ago when he signed I and a few other doubters were told on this site, that we were totally wrong, that re-signing him would mean we had a leader and that his Everton blood would enable him to throw off the poor form of the last season or so and lead the team by his inspiring displays. Rooney's life is a mess. How much concentration he can give to football is dubious. Re-signing him was a mistake, a pandering to an ego.

I doubt given Koeman's excessive wages that the Board will terminate his contract. I fear for the rest of the season that we will struggle and be lucky to make the top half of the table.

Koeman's (and probably Walsh's) incompetence is revealed by this summer's transfers. Three players bought to play the same position at a cost of almost £100 million. It beggars belief.

Barry and McCarthy needed replacing but Walsh already had Gueye lined up. This just left Lukaku to persuade to give another 12 months (as Koeman did) and then replace. With £140m + sky money to spend. Koeman spent a fortune in 4 windows and the team has loads of holes and severe limitations. The team is actually worse off.

Some on here have said, quite rightly, that the players are stinking the place out and are not playing well. I am afraid that is the manager's fault too. He signed all of them. These are all his guys. I don't know how he could lose the dressing room when all the players are relatively new.

We took some defeats under Moyes, but he had a core of players who were with him for a long time, a number clocked up 10 years or more. This meant there was continuity, stability and most importantly, team spirit. There seems none of that. Jagielka is here 10 years, Baines too. The rest are all new or are kids. They don't get Everton. They don't have stability, continuity, and they have no team spirit.

There was no need to Koeman to rip Martinez's team up so much, it's like he's got rid of everyone just to make it his. He had a new team every year at Southampton, does he actually prefer that? Is it because the players get so fed up of him that they want to leave?

there is so much wrong right now, and it all comes back to him. His players, his team, his formation, his tactics. It's all set up his way.

What is his plan? He has told us many times, he wants productivity and he wants pressing.

What is productivity? Well it's anyone's guess what he means here. Surely though it means creating some chances. we ain't seeing many.

What is pressing? Lots of running and closing down. Lots of energy. We ain't seeing that either.

My guess, as I have outlined before, is that Koeman wants an energetic and narrow side to run around a lot, to win the ball high up the pitch and go at teams. But this is not happening

- we lack aggression
- we lack energy
- we are too slow
- the transitions take too long
- the ball is not going forwards quickly enough
- we lack defensive and offensive cohesion
- no one is on the same wavelength
- there is no partnerships developing, not just the centre-backs or the man next to each other, but in creating triangles with the man ahead, it's just not happening
- we lack desire
- we lack fight

All of this is the responsibility of the manager. He has ripped the heart out of the Everton side, he's torn off its arms and legs, and changed every part of it. He's assembled a new side, and it's a horror show. Nothing is working. It is impossible to see what he wants to do.

All the best managers go through testing times and come out the other side. I still think we should give Koeman time. It's a new side and that is only fair. But he has until 21st October for me, and after Man Utd he needs to start winning every game. We cannot go into that game in the bottom half of the league table or the Europa League group.

Personally, I foresee him getting things going. But that's only because I see Koeman as Mr Just Enough. We'll probably scrape 7th this season, and maybe next again. But we are back to Moyes type stuff, but spending a fortune to do it.

I watched Newcastle in their relegation season, early on they were absolutely fucking awful. What is frightening me is that I see similarities with us. A team cannot be this leaky and goal-shy and stay up. If this carries on, we will be adrift at the bottom.

I've got nothing really to add what I imagine has already been said above, ie, Slow, Sluggish, Slovenly, Sloppy, Surreal, Sad and utter, utter, SHITE!!!

Against that, why does he sign 3 number tens (Klaassen, Rooney, Sigurdsson) and then play Vlasic in that position!?

On the flip side, if Koeman does go and therefore Barkley stays, then the severance payment will be money well spent

As for Koeman as each game goes by I become more and more convinced that he shouldn't be anywhere near Everton either!! It simply isn't working.......Whatever "it" is!!

All this talk of a new stadium (if it actually happens) will just mean we could have the nicest field in the Championship... if there aren't sweeping changes made.

Right now we aren't good enough to be in Europe. Hell, right now we aren't good enough to be in the Premier League.

Don't get me wrong, James, we definitely need a top class striker to lead the line. Unfortunately, I believe our issues run much deeper than that so that alone would not change our fortunes.

A large part of the game we did have a problem to get the ball over on the offensive part of the field. That is pretty alarming. Both the defence and the midfield were totally clueless. Absolutely no offensive imagination whatsoever.

— Beginning to think Koeman is a charlatan.

— Fuck me this is embarrassing,

— Jesus, this is one of the worst Everton teams I've seen in a long time.

— Were doomed!!!!!!

— What has happened to this squad??? How have we become so crap so quickly. God I am dreading Sunday. Man Utd will destroy us.

— This is the worst Everton performance I have seen in years.

— The whole team looks wrong, poor passing, second to every ball, no width, no forward, poor defence... we are a joke.

— Utter garbage.

— You're right, but what a disgrace that they should betray the supporters. They can all fuck off.

— We can't even pass the ball, it's embarrassing.

— Shambles!!!

— This is embarrassing.

— Absolute rubbish, no energy, no speed, no fight, no idea.

— Total bloody disgrace.

— Only hope I have left is when I wake up in the morning, BBC news reads "Koeman sacked."

— That was fucking abysmal.

— Ponderous, predictable, pathetic.

— Koeman has bought the wrong players, plays the wrong formation, and is the wrong manager for Everton.

— Absolutely appalling.

— This is just a carry-on from last season. Shite football and good excuses…

— This team is fucked up beyond repair. Sack him now!

— Koeman out, please. Now.

— We've seen no discernible evidence to show that Koeman has the remotest idea how to achieve a style of football.

For anyone who watched today, or last week, or the match before, or all 3 as I did — there is no argument. I have no words. The above says it all. Forget tactics or formations or strategy — it is just an abject fail. What an incredible come-down. Just unreal.

Going even further, right now I'd even accept Martinez back; at least his teams could pass the ball to each other.

I see us letting in 4 or more on Sunday... maybe scrape through against Sunderland and Bournemouth taking the 3 points at Goodison.

I'm depressed... but more than that, I'm raging.

The problem is the lack of organisation and motivation, of decent tactics and proper use of players. A management problem. Even if the world players put in 110% effort, it would just paper over the cracks, and not solve the basic problem.

No doubt the players deserve as much blame as him right now, and who's to say Rooney won't do something special to get things going again? Or Sigurdsson to score a free-kick and we mug off a team or two?

Some good players can achieve results despite the manager, his lack of plan and his bad tactics.

A ray of sunshine in the darkest hours.

Now some might argue that as highly paid professionals they should know what to do but it doesn't work like that. As professionals they follow the managers instructions and if that means embarrassing themselves and playing like paralytic shitbags then so be it.

The buck has to stop with Koeman. He decides the tactics, picks the team, trains them, "motivates" them etc so it's his head on the block, not theirs.

Really!?! Have you been watching? Rather a lone voice.

Koeman looked upset afterwards. Bloody should be upset and sacked. Not fit to manage Everton. . . never will be.

Point is, players are not happy; they don't get what they are being asked to do and Koeman has either lost the dressing room or the players just don't get what the hell he is trying to do.

Now I for one do not believe that the players couldn't give a flying fuck about losing; I think they are playing as instructed but, because they don't agree / understand, they are playing without any personal responsibility. In other words, they are, with the exception of a couple, hiding. Not my problem.

But I think it's the clearest indication yet that there is unhappiness in the dressing room and his admission on TV tonight that he takes responsibility also means he cannot risk pissing the players off any further. This guy may be incompetent but he isn't stupid. Slippery slope time.

BTW, Rooney may be over the hill, but he was our best player tonight, he worked, ran and tracked back more than any other player.

But that says more about the performance of the rest of the team rather than the work rate of Rooney.

The immediate priority is to get more solidity and ball retention in the side – ultimately they can only motivate themselves. Drop Holgate and Schneiderlin. Get Kenny in at right-back and Lennon in front of him. They will at least work and be playing in their proper positions.

I'd retain Vlasic on the left and have Sigurdsson more central. Calvert-Lewin was awful tonight and should be rested. Ludicrous though it sounds, we have to give Niasse a go for some pace and effort. Sandro was at least running and giving it a go tonight.

I'm clutching at straws, I know

Putting aside width issues, pace issues and tactical issues, what I don't understand is how these mostly international players cannot do the basics anymore.

The passing at times bordered on amateur, the tracking of players/marking noticeable by its absence, and the movement was lacking and has been for at least the last 3 games. How many times did the ball get passed around the defence, back to the keeper and around the defence again as the centre-backs and defensive midfielders looked for someone to pass the ball to?

In order to save his own reputation Koeman must come up with something very quickly and utilise players like Lennon, Mirallas, Lookman, Davies, Niasse and whomever else is on the cusp from the Under-23s as the current incumbents seem to have forgotten how to play the basics of football.

One other thing that is concerning me is the fact that Rooney, Baines, Keane, and
Schneiderlin look like they are going to play every game. Two of these are over 30 and any loss in form by Keane will be covered by 2 guys well in their 30s!

Yes, my opinion has morphed somewhat in the last 3 games!

The only scenario whereby I see Koeman going is if the players down tools Chelsea style or we look at risk of being relegated.

It's an ego thing now. The Koeman & Walsh dynamic was introduced the first summer after Moshiri bought in. The failure of either will reflect badly on him. To scrap Walsh will be impatient as he's been busily recruiting for the future. To fire Koeman will undermine the board's decision to take him in the first place.

By the time Koeman's gone, Calvert-Lewin might be half decent at right wing back.

It was good to watch, not ultra boring and took my mind off the utter effortless slow moving dross I watched in a bar beforehand.

We can't use lack of money as an excuse, we've got the manager in place that as a club we actively pursued and he has had a full season to sort us out. Unfortunately I believe we are now again regressing. I thought last season he sorted the defence and we were harder to beat and would build on that. Unfortunately we now defend like a Martinez team and attack like a Moyes team.

Somewhere it has gone wrong, we are miles off the pace of a top 4 team (which we aspired to this season?). I don't know the answer but the buck stops with the manager and it seems Koeman and Everton just aren't a good match.

If there is no improvement prior to the next international break, then I think the 2-week period should be used to sack the manager and appoint a replacement.

Obviously the game provided the debate and the entire second half was spent mouthing off and on our phones, whilst we forced another Jameson down our necks wincing at the TV.

No one, even thought for a second we could pull it back, and were not interested in the slightest

That tells me no faith in the team, the manager or in the style of footy.

That performance was criminal, abject and cowardly. Speaking of which I fully accept the board to look the other way come Sunday in full knowledge we have 4 home games against perceived moderate opposition.

That is 100% negligent and actually puts progress in the league cup & Europe at more risk by burying their heads in the sand.

Onto my usual admonishment of the manager. Repeating your mistakes is the biggest error you can make. Koeman always changes his team, always thinks he has seen some acute niche tactical advantage, basically he thinks hes a clever twat. He ain't.

Always conservative in approach, always leaves flair dribbling players out, it goes on and on.

Odds Ross outstaying Ron, good. It's a shambles, decisive action required.

Where is the joy? Sapped by the dourest Dutchman on the planet.

So far, clueless, idealess etc. Money spent on nothingness, which means not in the right areas of the team.

Why are so many managers in the Premier League paid to much when they don't have a fucking clue?

OMG!

I am afraid I do not agree with you "that these are good players". I have to say I believe the majority of them are very average and when I look at the squad I really do not see how to change it because we have too many mediocre players who all play in the same position so how do you change it tactically?

Changing Gueye for Besic or Davies for Klaassen does not in my opinion achieve a great deal. I have never been a Koeman fan and I feel what he has done to players like Ross, Mirallas, Deulofeu and now Lookman is Criminal.

I may be in a minority but at least Martinez tried to play good attacking football and he did get us to two semi-finals in his last year. It was a pity he could not sort out the defence.

Like many on here I have supported the blues for over 50 years and I just cannot see anything positive about the team or the coach. This has got relegation battle written all over it.

Give the job to Unsworth now. He maybe able to stem the rot by playing some of his squad cos I just don't see how changing the deck chairs on the titanic is going to rectify matters because we do not have the players to change the system.

His words finally showed an awareness that he is in trouble... which is, let's face it, the only thing he actually cares about.

I'm comfortable with a marriage of convenience. If he delivers results then I'll get over the fact I don't like him and don't rate him. Finally now we have a man who's personal success is tied to our own. Previously he had every excuse lined up – now he knows he out of excuses.

If he can get this team up and put on a good show at Man Utd then he'll earn himself more time. If not, then let's cut our losses immediately. Personally, I think he needs a miracle and will be gone next week.

I have never before felt so ashamed to be associated with Everton Football Club, but Koeman has turned us into a laughing stock. £140m spent and just look at the state we're in.

I've supported my team, (please note Koeman, not Everton but my team), for a total of 59 years since I was six years old so I think I can speak with a little more passion and feeling for this great club of ours than our £6m a year manager. And my overriding feeling after watching yet another spineless, inept capitulation against a fairly average Italian outfit is one of anger and as previously stated, shame.

It's become blatantly obvious to anyone with half a football brain that Koeman doesn't have any idea what he's doing. I have seen the good, the bad and the ugly from Everton over those years, but never have I seen my team look so bereft of cohesion and ideas on the pitch and then to hear Koeman basically admit he hadn't properly prepared the team for tonight's match... well, I never thought I'd see the day when our own manager would dare to admit such a gross dereliction of his duties in public. His post match statements were easily possible to be seen as Koeman sacking himself.

He is so clearly not the man for us, and the only team in the Premier League comparable with us at present is Palace, and I can only hope our board can find the balls to emulate Palace's early decision to get rid of their failed Dutch manager. How far does Moshiri want us to fall before he wields the axe? Our season can still be turned round, but only if we take the bull by the horns and do whatever is required to get Koeman out of our club.

We were all expecting to see Lookman back tonight to give us some pace and attacking flair but he never even made the bench, nor did Kenny. Niasse wasn't in the Euro squad but there is no reason not to include him against United on Sunday. After all, he scored against them twice for Hull last season so has a bit of history there. But I doubt Koeman will even put him on the bench.

I don't agree with those who say it's too soon to be talking of sacking Koeman. He has had over a year to organise the team into a cohesive unit but, by the latter third of last season, it was already clear to see that we had no real style of play or team spirit. He has virtually kicked out an entire team of players and has brought his own men in so he can have no excuses whatsoever for the current shambles over which he now presides.

If he had any honour or common decency he would resign tomorrow but will probably cling on to his lucrative job until his boss shows him the door. Please, please, please, Mr. Moshiri. Act now, while we still have time to salvage our season.

Koeman simply MUST go!

Malcolm Allison, I believe, once said that players pass the ball more easily to people they get along well with. If that is true, then some of our players certainly seem to be on alarmingly good terms with the opposition.

I am absolutely shocked by this 'performance'. It ranks up there with some of the worst stuff towards the end of the Martinez reign.

I know it's only September – and, frankly, I can't remember us sacking a manager this early in a season – but things are looking ominous for Koeman.

I'll be back home on Saturday, but I've decided not to go to Old Trafford. I'm not a bloody masochist!

If they smash 5 or 6 past us then the board may just be panicked into shitcanning Koeman. Short term pain could lead to long term gain. Approach Tuchel and if that's not doable appoint Unsworth. This fiasco cannot continue much longer.

This is reminiscent of the last phase under Martinez. Listless, flat, confused, clearly sick of the manager. We need to end this before it reaches the point that I start feeling sorry for Koeman.

People are beginning posts with; 'At least Martinez...'

And the Ultimate in damning comparisons - Mike Walker.

At least if we get a; 'Blah, blah, blah,...full confidence in the manager to turn things around' statement we know there's not long to go.

Thing is, where do we go from here? The club, the team is in absolute disarray. I was roundly jeered on here for suggesting Rhino should be given charge of the first team back in April and May. He always was going to be capable of injecting far more pride and passion into the team than the buffoon who currently has the gig... but is now the right time to do that? What was at the time a wonderful opportunity has rapidly become a poisoned chalice.

This is bad. Players only perform in such clueless, gutless fashion when their confidence has been absolutely shredded. Surely to fuck we can't persevere with Koeman? Unless he has been asking his team to perform as a disorganised rabble, we have to start believing that Paul Tran was onto something when he questioned Koeman's communication skills a while back.

There are certain flaws a manager can overcome; an inability to communicate to the players isn't one of them. What a fucking mess we're in.

I'm feeling so desperate, I would have even considered inviting Moyes back to steady the ship... but his confidence has been shredded too, being another boring fucker he was never a favourite of mine, but he did have a certain amount of credibility, the players believed in him... that's now gone. How can players respect a manager who has failed so badly in his last three jobs?

Do we look for another foreigner? Maybe further down the line, but right now? Absolutely no! This not the time to experiment with coaches who will want to experiment.

I keep coming back to Rhino. His recipe was a simple one last time he got the call. He played players in their right positions and he placed as much emphasis on attack as he did defence. He also installed a passion and enthusiasm most of us believed Martinez had completely drained. Can he do it again over a longer more sustained period? I for one would like to find out.

Thanks for the advice. As a browser, I use a modified version of Pale Moon (basically Firefox). I'm in the middle of tinkering with Adblock Latitude to suit, I'll get it sorted eventually. Meanwhile, the hassle with the page-hijacking ads is sometimes terrible - you'll know what I mean if you've experienced it! Adblock generally works okay, as you've found.

Thanks again.

That, coupled with the fact he is probably just fucking useless, has no heart to manage a club, and would be happier managing a 'project' rather than having to deal with real with 'people'.

Over to you Mr Moshiri. Do you have the mentality to see when a mistake has been made and rectify it asap? I hope so.

Bring in Unsworth as caretaker. Take some time looking for an alternative while seeing how Rhino does.

And start scouting players!< I saw two strikers at Atalanta yesterday that surely could have done a job for us up front this season!

Problem is Koeman is average too. Look at his face. He had an idea that a few quid would help him achieve his goal. Now he is thinking what the fuck have I done.

These players can perform better there is not a shred of doubt there but it will only be better when its good. Not great.

I love Unsworth but everyone has to take into consideration how a man with no experience will cope when form is at a low.

Koeman says Everton are too nice, I agree, but it's not just the team it's the whole club. Is there an overall plan for Everton FC to achieve success? If yes surely we are slipping on that plan?

If yes again then surely you act to ensure your plan gets back on track. I do fear that the only plan the club has is for a new stadium. Let's see.

We have to go back to basics so the players know their roles as at the moment nobody has a clue about our pattern of play or formation! It may mean playing some of the unfashionable players but so be it!!! 4-4-2 or 4-5-1

Include Lennon and Mirallas on the flanks! Only 1 of Gueye or Schneiderlin . Rooney and Niasse upfront!

Desperate times indeed!!!

If Moshiri is serious about turning Everton into a winning club then he has to get rid, first, of the perennial losers who've infested the club with a cancerous malaise for decades. Yes, BK and his sycophantic number 2.

Get rid of those 2 shysters and it will send a message to the world that cozy, fuddy duddy Everton is no more. Then tell Koeman that he's got until the end of October or he can grab his clogs and fuck off.

If you're seriously serious Moshiri start showing it by cleaning house of the incompetent twats who've slowly but surely destroyed this club.

Anybody know the number for that fella who does the plane and tow behind banner thing?

We could be seeing that 'Grim Reaper' guy at Old Trafford again too.

As soon as the ball gets to Calvert-Lewin or Sandro they are swamped and lose it. Or never get it under control in the first place. They are not yet equipped to Shoulder that burden.

Until we have that attacking force to relieve some of the pressures on the midfield and defence we will suffer.

In short we have no one at the club who can operate as a sole No 9. We have no one who can hold the ball up and relieve pressure. How can we fix it with our current resources??

The best solution I can think of is to Play Rooney as an out and out centre-forward, until January. He has no pace but he has strength skill and cleverness ,maybe has the best chance of retaining possession in the opposition half.

Also reintroduce Lennon wide to give some injection of pace. Play Sigurdsson in the No 10 position. Play a settled back 4: Baines, Jagielka, Keane and Kenny, until Seamus returns.

Koeman has to think clearly about finding a solution, but the problem is finding a balanced and cohesive team with his current resources. What worries me is that ideas on here seem better than what he comes up with!

It was totally embarrassing to watch, we have spent a fortune on players, who seem to be misfits, there is little sign of any improvement, quite the opposite, we seem to have gone backwards.

Have you had a sense of humour by-pass? I said we shouldn't sack him immediately like everybody wants but give the bloke time.

Do it on Sunday, after the Man Utd game. It was a joke.

I firmly believe the vision of the club should be built around local and generally British young players with a view not to cracking the top 4/6 now but having a team with the foundations to do this over a 5-
to 10- year period. To that end Pickford, Keane and Lookman are sensible signings, and we should have paid Barkley what he asked for.

The trouble is Koeman has a 3 year deal and he is ambitious and so buying the likes of Martina (getting in the way of Kenny), Klaassen, Sigurdsson and Rooney (getting in the way of Dowell, Barkley, Davies) are not sensible signings.

We should only be signing players where they are seriously decent quality (and I think Sigurdsson and Klaassen are the only ones that could fall into that category and clearly both are not needed) or where we are short (striker) or the youngsters need support.

The reality is in my view the only players we should have signed are Pickford, Keane and Klaassen and then spent the rest on a striker.

Call him into the office and tell him that if he doesn't get a result or a point on Sunday then there's no need to come in on Monday. Appoint Unsworth as Caretaker with an experienced offsider but without a recognized striker and the youngsters out on loan how can anything better be expected?

The aim for the rest of the season? Don't get relegated or you can kiss attracting better players, European competition and a new ground, goodbye!

Then start again trying to find players with pace and dribbling ability to replace those lost under Koeman.

All summer I have had shit from 'you don't know football' to "We are doing things properly" from absolute know-alls using board logic. I've been told 3 or 4 times the plan to buy these youngsters (which is what we done anyway), is a great idea and I haven't thought about it.

This whole summer has been a joke for me. From the board pretending we spend now to the fans calling players class after a Europa League qualifier then having the cheek to have a pop at fans that spotted this absolute shite months ago.

God knows I want to see every Evertonian grinning like we rule but I never shoot down a genuine concern for the team's future.

There have been signs of our potential, eg, Man City last year just one, but this latest collection of players seem like a car engine that has been thrown together from parts sourced from different manufacturers. It simply is not working, and it is difficult to see what the solution is.

None of this years signings set my pulse racing in anticipation of their potential with the possible exception (for me at least) of Ramirez, who is looking a bit like a headless chicken so far. I don't think on the face of what I have seen that he is offering any more than Niasse could, who really should be given a run out, perhaps against Sunderland.

I am surely in the minority but I do believe that Rooney, despite the ravages of time and a career at the top of the game, remains a class act (on the pitch at least) but he is not able to make the difference on his own. Most noticeable and conspicuous by his absence to me is Ross – sadly injured and unlikely to wear our shirt again if Koeman is in charge – who, with Rooney, is head and shoulders ahead of all this squad.

As I said, I simply cannot see what the answer is. Sure as eggs is eggs, no action from the board will be happening any time soon. As someone else pointed out, the job would be a poisoned chalice to anyone taking it on now so I think we have no option but to wait and see if things will improve. If not, over the course of the next month or so – with about 7 matches providing ample opportunity to show what we can do (Man Utd being the most challenging) – the die must be cast and the search for someone brave enough to take over the baton of this Everton project stepped up.

And good luck with that!

It would surely have to be Unsworth to see the season out. He could surely do no worse and expectations on him would be reasonable so that could be a win-win solution.

But Kenwright's still in charge, and I think Moshiri is a cover for that. Here's hoping we turn it around and get the manager, team and stadium we want, eventually.

There was supposed to be a quote at the return of the light horse, after the Charge of the Light Brigade, "Go again, Sir". There again though, the Light Brigade weren't on the salaries these lads are...

Get a grip, otherwise, we could be looking at the drop.

For one thing, his record is good ("The title success in the inaugural Premier League 2 competition is just reward for the young Blues, with Unsworth's team winning 15 of their 21 matches to date, losing just three in the process. Their championship win means Everton now boast the best Under-23 side in the country."), and he managed Everton to a 3-0 win after Martinez was sacked with a thoroughly demoralised team.

I also suspect that he would get a very good reception from the players. He could drop all the dross that Koeman has brought in – Schneiderlin, Klaassen, Sigurdsson, Martina, Ramirez, Vlasic, Williams, Stekelenburg (we could try to unload them as a job lot to Tranmere) – and bring in Davies, Kenny, Lookman, Lennon and perhaps a few others.

I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't go out and win just on the euphoria of getting rid of the divisive, incompetent, dour and clueless Dutchman.

So your plan – get Unsy in; drop 7 players: Schneiderlin, Klaassen, Sigurdsson, Williams, Vlasic, Martina, & Ramirez; bring in 4 (Lennon, Davies, Lookman, & Kenny) and errrrr some others.

It is this kind of mob rant that is just so depressing, so illogical, so lacking any kind of coherence...yet seems to be the absolute norm on here.

I made a comment already about the Live Forum last night – people actually baying for us to lose, such is their loathing of Koeman... loathing that's been there since day 1 in some instances. Darren Hind to name just one of their feted gurus.

And for those who incessantly and blindly seek to justify Rooney's return/inclusion, may I quote Corriere dello Sport: 'Rooney no papu' – roughly translated as 'Rooney but a bean'.

The majority of the Evertonians who travelled out here had gone long before the final whistle and those who remained issued such a vicious chorus of boos and V-signs that the players knew not to come over and patronise us with the usual, half-hearted, going-through-the-motions acknowledgments. To his credit, Holgate ventured farthest, but he was the only one whose performance merited an average rating.

There is clearly something substantially wrong on more than one level to produce consistent levels of complete incompetence such as this.

To their credit, Atalanta were so up for it last night, and their support was fantastic from start to finish.

We, however, mirrored our national team: playing like total strangers with no leadership, game plan, collective discipline or any semblance of a will to win.

Whatever the odds are on Man Utd winning on Sunday, get them backed – it is an unrivalled money-making certainty!

There is absolutely nothing in any of the performances this season to say we are improving. Players, team selection or system-wise – nothing in place to say we are on the right road.

What expertise has Koeman brought to the club? He's pissed off several players and no doubt will piss off a few more when he proportions the blame. This is his team, his players; no excuses – he is not up to the job of taking this club forward.

He comes across as an outsider and only here for the short-term. If we are not careful, we could be crying out for not big Joe but big Sam!!!

Think he would be a good fit and seems like he is a good man-manager.