Koeman ratchets down expectations following dismal start

I understand that we were competitive today. Early goal and we were profligate. Sure I get it. Fine. Better performance than the last few.

But 𧵄 million later and you think nobody is going to think perhaps that Everton are supposed to be capable to challenging for the top four?

That's not acceptable. You took the team to 7th and then spent more than has ever been spent at this club. Between Koeman and the team behind him, they haven't provided (what seems like) a platform to achieve that.

No, that is unacceptable. The Premier League is stratified in several steps. Top seven, top four and title challengers. If you achieve top seven and then spend big but can claim you can't do any better than top seven, you've spent 𧵄 million to stand still and that is ridiculous.

In classic cliche, I'm not saying "Koeman Out" just yet; I understand the difficulties of a start like we've had and the effect it can have on form. But this is "knife to a gunfight" crap if I've ever seen it, and I was raised during the Moyesian era. It's all very clear to me still.

I hope Unsy continues his education well, because I believe there is a manager in him somewhere. One with ambition and adaptability. Heavens knows we'll be in need of a manager soon...

Man Utd spent $150m with no player exits. I am on the fence about Koeman but I hate the lies that Mourinho spews to insult his opponents.

His response to calm the rabid expectations of the Everton hoards, tell us how crap we are, how far away from competing we are. Beat us down so we are grateful for the gruel he serves us and a top half finish.

His Everton side is so far away from I recognise as my Everton it is stretching credulity. Heart, combative players with some silk to add a cutting edge, high tempo play sprinkled with a maverick or two.

I'm surprised we didn't play in the grey away strip – it would match our coach and his style perfectly.

God help the fella if he picks a lightweight side on Wednesday.

The team he sent out wasn't so bad. The problem is how deep we set up and how little runners we have up front and from midfield that allow us to push up.

He's going to get one more transfer window, like it or not. Have no idea why Sandro was the first sub today... had hope but he was so bad. So bad that I wondered if he was going to be subbed himself. Has anyone mentioned we need a striker yet? Barkley could really add something to this team; as could Coleman and Bolasie.

The season isn't over, it's only just begun. Now let's get some points on the board.

My own guess on the whole situation tends to be that Barkley doesn't want to play for Koeman after previous events, culminating in his not re-signing, not that he wants to leave Everton per se. If Koeman remains, I wonder would Barkley want to play?

There were signs of something yesterday – a bit of energy and spirit in the players, whether because or in spite of Koeman. This has been completely lacking since day one of this season, and is the absolute basis from which all else follows.

It's not false positivity to note a small glimmer of something just because we were finally hammered, it's an observation of reality – just as the same observation showed that Koeman totally took the wind out of the team's sails as he's done many times, by making substitutions almost guaranteed to cause problems. What is the guy up to?

I'm not supporting Koeman. It would suit me if he'd already gone, but if that isn't about to happen anytime soon, then maybe the players themselves can do enough somehow to prevent us falling any further into the crap. The other issues of missing personnel, the quality of what we bought and so on, are well known and have been discussed enough by others.

By keeping him the board are saying its fine to lose as long as you lose to bigger opposition. Which is not acceptable by me an Everton fan. I want passion. I want desire. I want results. Results against big teams, not against weaker teams.

We have a great team that just needs a great manager who realizes that passion can fill that talent gap. Desire to win. Desire to be the best. The first step is we need to stop thinking we are not good enough and everytime Koeman speaks he basically is saying we not good enough.

Koeman needs to go back and listen to JFK who said "Ask not what Everton can do for you. Ask what you can do for Everton."

Meanwhile, Niasse was with the away fans yesterday. Nice gesture from him.

Yes I do understand that the players brought in need time to gel, but he is playing a defensive set-up and we're leaking goals heavily. Didn't someone once say that attack is the best form defense?

I say all-out attack. Fuck the consequences – we are losing because we are not trying to score goals. No runners off the front men at all. I noticed quite a few times during the last few games that the players on the ball are struggling to find team mates to pass to, resulting in too many long passes sideways(!!!!). Again, WTF???

We'll be lucky to achieve the same as last season with no striker. Whomever is responsible for not replacing that classless tosser should be shown the door and our £6 million a year leader should be told to avoid his transfer deadline day sunny trips.

Without a goal-scoring threat and without any pace in the team we will continue to find it very difficult to trouble any opponents. All the players can do at present is what they did yesterday. Show some spirit and try to make the best of what they have.

As for the manager he might try keeping the same team and formation for a game or two instead of constantly chopping and changing. At a time when players are struggling to settle into the team, the last thing they need is rotation.

Although there were signs of hope from the Man Utd game, the next seven fixtures, ending with the Arsenal game at home, will allow fair judgement of where we really are and of Koeman. If there is not significant improvement in results or the generally ponderous football, he certainly should not be given another transfer window in my opinion.

It would not be so bad if the team had played well, or at least with guts, or with some sense of organisation, or that the players bought seemed to be as good as the ones on the U23s. Or if the manager appeared to have a clue.

If I were Moshiri, I'd sack this moron and say "Sue me for any compensation, and I'll wreck your 'career'". I'd get Unsworth in for Wednesday and I'd lend (or give) Martina, Klaassen and Sigurdsson to any lower league team anywhere that would take them.

I'd then get Kenny, Davies, Lookman, Lennon, Calvert-Lewin and Rooney in a room and tell them they are now the heart of the team.

The new buys are all good players who have not suddenly become bad because they have moved to Everton. They read the play well, can tackle and pass. But they are not speed merchants.

Therefore we have to play more possession football (it doesn't have to be slow and deliberate) and attack in numbers with stealth and patience.

The long hoof up front might have been okay with Lukaku but it achieves nothing with the current squad.

We need a review of tactics, formation and style of play which reflects the present reality and not pine for a model which is irrelevant.

And I think we would be looking forward to a refreshed Barkley rather sooner than medical reports might indicate.

Overall, the level of performance was better than I expected, but the team set up is unbalanced, we seemed to be playing a formation of 9-1!

Some individuals are struggling Keane (sadly), Martina, Baines and Williams. Although I thought the latter had a decent game, one mistake and the killer goal arrived.

The turning point I believe was the substitutions. I thought Davies was giving Man Utds back four problems by continually running at them. When he went off, our attacking threat seemed to dissapear.

I thought Gana was glueing the midfield together, when he went Utd regained control.

Rooney, whatever his age, is class. No one else has his vision or dare I say it his desire. Mirallas tried but it was to late.

Finally, the penalty, surely that was a case of ball to hand? His hand was on the ground and didn't move. We wus robbed!!

How many of us would care if we beat Man Utd 4-0 but they were all over us? It doesn't matter – a result is a result at the end of 90 minutes. If anyone out there fans, players, manager, tealady thinks losing 4-0 at this club is okay they should fuck right off.

If Koeman hasn't been sacked after the past 4 weeks of disastrous results he never will be. Kenwright is a known liar and conman. He has pulled the wool yet again with this skint billionaire Moshiri being pulled out of thin air. I trust neither of them. I advise you all to do the same and not listen to anything they say. Especially the Bramley-Moore joke stadium project.

Surely this farcical situation with the docks and Koeman cannot be allowed to continue. It is an embarrassment to the whole city not just EFC.

Sack Koeman and keep your mouths shut – that's my advice to Kenwright and Moshiri. We've had to listen to enough bullshit and watch crap football ever since Bungalow Bill took control of our club.

Were are the Blue Union these days. Maybe we can employ the sisters of Shankley for a while. One thing about the Kopites is they don't put up with shit for to long. Can't believe we're from the same City, the difference in what's acceptable.

It appears to me he doesn't sign the players, that lies with Kenwright and Walsh. I expected more signings and better signings for a Europa League season and they haven't materialised. The failure to sign a striker and cover at left back is unforgivable. Also you need more players to tackle the Europa League.

I think Koeman is right. Be realistic, the run of games has been more than arduous, you can't expose young players all at once to the Premier League and we haven't suddenly become better than the six teams above us by our horse trading in the transfer market. The 𧵎 million spent has been recouped through the loss of several well paid passengers and, if Barkley had signed for Chelsea, our net spend would be approximately nil.

I would be very surprised to see Barkley ever play again in a blue shirt. I think he will rise miraculously like Lazarus from his sick bed in January just in time for a cut-price move to Spurs.

I don't believe in chopping and changing managers and I do feel we have bought some good players. I'm prepared to be patient and yesterday was some kind of improvement.

I thought Tom Davies was outstanding and Wayne Rooney is still a better player than anyone we had last season so there are things to build on. A home win against Bournemouth is a must.

Set my expectations from the off.

You were surprised by Tottenham's physicality and shape... They (Atalanta) were prepared for the game... you weren't bothered by the Chelsea result...

Are you a football manager or are you just out for the bunce?

You're earning (don't all laugh at once) £6 mill a year, and you come out with shite like that!! Please someone tell this man that he is in charge of the greatest club on earth with the greatest fans... fans who won't be duped by endless drivel.

We love our club, and we want the players and manager to be on the same songsheet. He is out of his depth, he cannot manage Everton.

To the powers that be, please give Unsy and Big Joe the reigns till Christmas at least; the one thing we would see is commitment and Jonjoe Kenny. Pride in the shirt is paramount – something Ronald dosen't understand.

In addition, why does he always refer to 'Everton'? He never says 'We' or 'My Club' or 'My Team'. He has no attachment to this club, like it isn't worthy to have him.

I want him gone now. I hope we win all the remaining games this season, so I am not hoping for a run of defeats over these next 4 home games. But if Kenwright is as Big a Blue as he suggests, then surely the comments by Koeman must make him want to tell him to fuck right off from this club, the arrogant prick!

By the way, his motivational comments above must be sending shockwaves out to all the top strikers out there. You can imagine are previous No 1 target, Giroud, reading those comments and thinking, "Merde, I missed the boat there. I could and should have been part of that project to finish in 7th this season".

Aaarrrggghhhhh!

Lowering expectations to keep his job... I want a manager who doesn't have a ceiling. Someone with ambition, someone who knows how to set up a team to win.

These dour types just get everyone down.

You don't win anything when you set your team up like we witnessed yesterday. For the salary the club is offering (or even more, if the right candidate becomes available), we could have the choice of 99% of managers in world football.

We could, and should, start that search right now.

It's about treating professionals (like Niasse) like naughty school children for no reason other than you don't fancy them.

It's about alienating one of our most talented players to the point where he wants to leave the club he has supported all his life - and then not appearing to give a shit.

It's about refusing to play anyone with any pace ever (despite having Lennon, Mirallas and Lookman currently available).

It's about not a single player in the 1st team squad showing genuine improvement under your leadership.

It's about not seeing Everton as a stepping stone for you to "a big job".

I don't care about finishing 4th this season. I care about Everton getting better and a long-term plan for sustained success. And I don't see you as part of it. Let's be honest – neither do you. As soon as Everton have a run of good results you will be Tweeting Barcelona all the headlines.

Go spend your money! I am done with you!

We have no goal threat to bother the teams above us , and if we sneak one they will score more.

Improvement will be perceived to have happened when we play lesser teams and scrape wins. Believe me, I will take that for now. Mainly because we have no choice.

Real improvement will not happen until when we can get at least one quality striker in January . And we get Coleman and, to a lesser extent, Bolasie back firing on all cylinders.

He talked the talk but didn't walk the walk. There are good managers out there and with our resources they would do a good job.

Koeman is a fraud. He seems quite arrogant and one of those 'my way or the highway' characters. That's okay if you're a managerial genius but pretty damaging if you're just stubborn and unimaginative.

For all we slate them, the last two managers did do that. Moyes turned us from our 'new' status as strugglers back to being relevant. Martinez gave us such an exciting new era... that 13-14 season was brilliant to watch. Young players expressing themselves under a manager that genuinely thought he could win things. I'll always have a soft spot for him because he was ambitious – if ultimately just not good enough.

How did we get to this though? A manager who doesn't give a fuck about the club, churning out crap football, creating nothing, seemingly without any strategy, and an ageing team.

... and it's costing us a fortune!

He declared that every manager with a big squad has doubts about formations and which players to use, that's normal, but this is different... I ask why, why? We have 4 home games and normally if we don't win, it is time to stop.

I don't know but I think he wants out; it's not that he's lost the players, I mean, half have only just signed for him.

The dressing room has lost him, he's lost interest when he's realised this is a big club with serious intentions and he's out of his managerial depth. Please stop linking the likes of Pardew and Big Sam; it has to be Unsworth. Every big manager was started somewhere, Unsworth has obviously got something going for him.

I would imagine it's a lot harder to build a title-winning team, with all the characteristics needed in a player throughout a whole season, using seasoned professionals rather than young immature boys really, most with more money than sense.

They have so much talent but are playing without any conviction and look like a sure fire relegation candidate. Yesterday's starting eleven was bound to lose right from the off although it only took 3 minutes despite all those defensive players. Woeful. Koeman is a phony.

After their first goal I was pleasantly surprised at how well we reacted, especially for large parts of the 2nd half, but in the end a 4-0 loss is a thrashing, whether you deserved it or not.

I have said on another thread that I don't think it is time for Koeman to go just yet, he should be at least given the next 4 games considering they are winnable and although not an excuse for poor form, our first few fixtures have been as tough as I can ever remember.

Hopefully we can get an overdue win against Sunderland in midweek and that will give us a bit of confidence going into the next Premier League game.

Koeman now has to be judged on the next 3 league games. At least 7 points will be needed. That with 2 cup victories would restore some confidence hopefully and prepare us for Arsenal, Leicester Lyon, etc. Anything less and questions will have to be asked.

I feel we are now entering a crucial few weeks for our club and I hope the fans really get behind the team in the next 2 league matches. A museum like atmosphere and getting on the players backs will help no one. The team need our full support and backing in the vital games ahead.

My hope is we use this season to figure out what works, which players we bought turn out to be as good as we thought, which were not, and then make the right moves in the summer transfer window to adjust. Frustratingly, that looks to be the striker and defender Koeman was saying all along that he needed.

Mourinho is totally wrong and his comment is misleading..

- 67.2% pass completion rate worst out of every player to start (excluding keepers).

- Was dispossessed and lost the ball with a poor touch most often out of any player on the pitch.

- Did not create a single chance.

So onto Man Utd, a reaction after the previous 3 games definitely needed. After the slow start we grew into the game and actually started to play a little football, albeit I always felt Man Utd had several gears left to move into.

For the life of me though I cannot understand the substitutions and that is Koeman's fault, not the board or the absence of Lukaku!

We were desperate for pace and energy and yet he takes of one of our youngest and most energetic players on the pitch in Davies, then compounds things even further by removing Gueye who I felt was controlling the midfield.

I thought Rooney was awful unlike many above, I lost count of the number of times he lost the ball. I'm hoping this to be a short term thing until his head is fully back in the game, as I thought he was great in the first couple.

I have to say though the player I have most issues with right now is Schneiderlin; every time I watch him I cannot see what everyone else does, he is extremely neat and tidy when passing backwards or sideways, but simply ducks the responsibility of making a positive pass forwards. Also I don't see him protecting the back 3/4 enough which surely is he prime duty, for me.

Both he and Rooney should have been removed yesterday before Davies/Gueye. I don't believe the result would have been any different but at the minute I'd settle for some positivity.

I think Koeman has had his time now and the board needs to move now, all the talk is about the next 4 games but by that time we could easily be out of the league cup, to far adrift in the Europa League and still in the bottom 3 with only the FA Cup to play for. I hope i'm wrong and either the board react quickly, or Koeman proves me wrong and I have to eat my words, but he is simply not the manager to take this club forwards.

"Did not create a single chance."

Er, he had two shots as I recall, one of which required saving. If there's a criticism it's that he didn't score. And I've read a piece by ex-Red Danny Murphy today which describes Rooney's peformance as "sensational". He writes...

"Rooney led the line on his own for much of the game, made chances and held the ball up brilliantly. / He could and should have scored too, but even that opportunity in the second half only came about through his own endeavour and creativity."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/41301955

Sometimes stats do not give the whole picture - the pass completion for instance, as an isolated front man up top (for much of the game the most isolated player on the pitch) you can't expect him to retain posession for ever, or complete every meagre pass that's available.

If a team passes a lot, sideways and backwards their completion rate will be higher than a team that tries to play decisive attacking passes, when these passes are tricker to complete, because they need pin point accuracy to give maximum effect.

Hopefully he'll give Walsh free rein to sign anyone Walsh thinks is good enough. The dithering in the summer did no one any favours and we are paying the penalty right now.

When Koeman was appointed, I said on TW at the time I was not a supporter of the man but would give him time and support.

Crystal Palace could see what was happening with De Boer and made a change (a bad one in my opinion but a change it was).

Why oh why Moshiri cannot see what the majority of Everton supporters are seeing is a mystery to me. The man should go before irrepairable damage is done and Moshiri has the perfect excuse after "the same as last season" statement. In fact the way it is going it might turn out that I would be happy with last season's seventh but that is my inner turmoil and Moshiri has no such excuse.

Ronaldo? A matter of time before De Gea goes. Barca and Neymar. Every club has its price; theirs is a little higher than ours, that is all.

Man Utd scored 4 more goals than us.
Atalanta scored 3 more goals than us.
Spurs scored 3 more goals than us.

I can make the problem of wanting to "not lose" go away easily by not caring. What we should be doing, you half wit, is actually "not losing".

This guy gets paid ٤m to tell fans to manage their expectations. Are you kidding?

I don't know how many times we had the ball in their final third and it ultimately ended up back with Jageilka or Williams for another hoof.

just appalling football to watch and next up is Everton B; many of them with a point to prove.

Then the man paid $6 mil a year to give us a team to be made up to watch comes out with all of this defeatist crap that makes us a laughing stock.

I was never a big lover of Duncan Ferguson but I would fly back from Oz and pick him up from Barlinnie myself after he serves his time for putting the head on Ronald Koeman.

Well, I know quite a bit about the team, having managed against them four times. I finished above them twice, but I think that I can take the team to 7th, best of the rest?

in your first season?

Yes, why not

and then in your second season?

Well, if you give me money to spend, I think we can do a little better.

There's over £200m to spend but you will have to sell John Stones, but we can probably hold onto Lukaku for a season. So how much better.

Great, Yes, I think we can do a little better.

What do you mean, 6th?

No, still 7th. We just do a little better.

And then in your third season?

If you give me another £200m we can even better?

A lot better?

Yes

Which position do you think you can achieve?

7th

7th?

7th, yes

After spending £400m?

Yes, but we do better.

ok, you're hired!

Maynard Keynes said "When the facts change, I change my mind", so maybe Ronnie take note.

So, we can't score a goal? At least give Niasse a go until he proves otherwise.

Williams and Jagielka are finished? Play Holgate in his true position... what happened to Funes Mori?

Klaassen and Sandro are not ready? Swallow your pride and stick Barkley on, we are still paying his wages.

Martina cannot defend ? Then stick a right back on – Jonjoe Kenny.

To me, Koeman has morphed into a Dutch version of Moyes judging by his "dumbing down expectations" comments; this dope has wasted £200m since he arrived and not one player is an improvement on what was here beforehand. A fucking joke.

Five wins or the sack. End of.

The truth is that Koeman is not fit to manage the great club Everton and nobody expects that he will ever achieve anything at Everton.

I expect that Everton will struggle to survive in the Premier League this season. I have no confidence in the board to take the decision to dismiss Koeman in time.

No forward player will join Everton in January under a manager with such a attitude. Barkley will leave in January. Our only chance is Niasse will play and he will perform , hopefully under a different manager. He has the right attitude.

I will always support Everton even in the Championship if it comes to that with a manager who respects Everton Football Club.

Gotta say loved "Our Tune" back in the day, nice one.

On a more serious "note" (see what I did there?) I think you made some good points.

I think Koeman didn't realize what he was getting himself into and how much would be expected of him. He gives the impression we should be happy to finish seventh. And for a manager to come out and publicly state we should expect to finish "the same as last season" after all the players we've signed is a disgrace.

Where's the fucking project now, Ronald???

This conclusion is only reinforced every time he opens his mouth to the media, with his defensive and inept utterings. The only managerial talent this man possesses is his ability to divert criticism onto others, and evade accountability. The sooner he goes the better.

Let's be honest, before Moshiri the club had been in decline for 20 years and had he not taken over, Martinez would have remained manager and we may well have been a championship team now.

It was always going to take longer than one season to sort out, especially with Lukaku leaving. We may not have brought in all the players we wanted, but there has been a major overhaul of the playing staff and some new players are taking time to come to terms with the Premier League. We have still not managed to get rid of some of the unwanted players RM brought in.

On a positive note, I thought Sandro looked much more of a player against Man Utd than at any time previous. He should now be given a run. The same may apply to Klaassen, although he may need a little longer. Keane is going through a sticky patch but is a good player and will come good, as will Sigurdsson who is also not up to speed, perhaps because of his missing pre-season.

I feel sure that by Xmas we will see a much improved team.

Also a lot of our spending was on young players who are currently in the U23s or on loan.

Koeman's mistake has been in buying a lot of players to rotate in the various competitions we are currently in. In my opinion it would have been better to buy fewer, but better quality players. A striker, 2nd centre half etc. and used the U23s to pad out the first team squad for the Europa, and League cup instead of loaning them out. They would have gained some first team experience and we wouldn't be sacrificing the PL as we are now.

Of course whatever we think it's all water under the bridge now and we are where we are.

The real problem is that Koeman doesn't have a clue what his best side is or what formation they should play. We are back were we always are. Hoping to get results against our fellow also-rans and maybe a decent cup run.

We need a manager with vision and Koeman simply doesn't have it. Seems to be the 2nd season is what does them in. The fans will give you a pass on your 1st season but you own the 2nd season so you had better make it a good one. Especially if you raise expectations like Martinez did by finishing 5th in his first season and Koeman has done by spending so much money on so many players.

Koeman first admitted he was losing control if the team then went to extreme lengths to try to correct (his) mistakes. He told three key players, Canizares, Albelda and Anglo they would no longer feature in his plans and they could look for different clubs, (sounding familiar so far?).

Santiago Canizares, a world - class goalkeeper said he would consider retirement if Koeman stood by his decision to leave him out of the team for the rest of the season. Barcelona immediately registered an interest in him.

David Albelda took legal action against the club to get his contract terminated after calling a press conference to announce his frustration with the management (Koeman), stating that he deserved better than public humiliation.

Angulo also spoke to the press, saying that the club's veterans were being treated with little or no respect by Koeman.

After Athletic Bilbao, who hadn't scored more than twice at home all season, hit five against Koeman's Valencia, Raul Albiol of Valencia said, "The dressing room is like a funeral," and the funeral was Koeman's. The fans and players couldn't wait to get rid of him.

When he took over from the sacked Sanchez-Florescent, Valencia were four points off the top of La Liga. They then took only 18 out of a possible 66 points, and were 35 points off the top and had won only four games, and sat two points above the relegation zone.

He presided over a divided dressing room who (surprise, surprise), found themselves totally at a loss with his tactics, with Joaquin saying Koeman's tactics had them running around like headless chickens (again, sound familiar?) and the only reason they eventually escaped relegation was that the players got together and dumped his tactics and played it their way. The final nail in his coffin.

Now, if anyone can't see the similarities between then and now, they have to be deaf, dumb and blind. What the hell was Moshiri doing when he appointed Koeman? Did he not read the man's record? Didn't he pick up any of the vibes coming out of Southampton?

At least Valencia eventually took action to get rid of this awful man before he got them relegated. Has Moshiri got the guts to admit his mistake and do the right thing to save us from similar humiliation?

When you consider he could have gone for Premier League winner Pellegrini, or Europa League winner Emery at the time, it does raise a question or two about how much in-depth football knowledge Mr. Moshiri really possesses.

Everything in Koeman's past spells out DISASTER in capital letters. He almost destroyed Valencia, a club with a long and proud history (sound familiar again). For God's sake don't let him do the same to us. If it takes fan protests a la Valencia then let's do it, let the club know how we feel.

Start an online petition, anything, something, but we need to get this one-man wrecking ball out of our beloved Everton.

Let's just see what happens over the next five to six weeks. A win against Sunderland mid week will help the teams confidence, and move us forward in that competition, as they haven't won in the Championship yet, so we should be able to win that one, shouldn't we?

After reading my namesakes post at 84, I think the club should act now and get rid. David Unsworth could NOT do any worse.

That Valencia story will give me nightmares!!!

Nothing constructive, positive to support Koeman's continued tenure. Infact its looking backwards andcomparing him with Martinez!? Tell me what he's done right, evidence of good performances, innovative tactical solutions for different games.

Whatabout the football has been memorable about Koeman's reign; Arsenal & City at home thats it.

The evidence as in his record, is not trending positively anywhere.

Danny Murphy doing his best 'Little Big Man' there.

Ok, Rooney was among the better performers of a pretty piss poor bunch, but to say his display against Man United was "sensational" is disengenous flattery on par with Paul Daniels publicly dubbing his 'Despicable Me' beaked missus the bloody "lovely" Debbie Mcgee.

Rooney put in the effort and tried to make something happen (which is the least one would expect of someone with a point to prove turning out against their former club), but he fluffed his lines when presented with two great chances to drag Everton back into the game. If he buried them both (as he should have done), then you could certainly understand people bigging him up as being "sensational" on the day. The way things actually went down makes Murphy's praise sound like nothing more than a bit of backslapping support for an arl mate having to build his reputation back up.

For me, Rooney has been a big part of the problem with the poorly balanced sides Koeman has been sending out this season. It's problematic playing him up top, as he no longer possesses the necessary physical attributes to pose more than a passing threat anywhere along the forward line and he looks as though he well and truly knows it himself; hence his dropping further and further back to try and find a bit of free space where he can put his foot on the ball without fear of being instantly brushed aside, out-jumped or out-paced.

Whilst some people will lap up his 'looking to get on the ball', it conversely leads to the closing off of an outlet vital for any team looking to get out and up the pitch, whilst further clogging up an already fully congested midfield area. Sandro has been guilty of similar in his time on the pitch, dropping deep and haring around in areas where a forward can't harm any fucker (although the impetus there seems to be 'Scrappy Doo'ish desperation to make some sort of mark, rather than him being physically shagged or incapable of running the other way).

A Koeman quote. Is he saying he'd walk if we don't win them?

👀,"Now we have four games at home in different competitions and we need to win. If you don't win it is better to stop."

A Koeman quote. Is he saying he'd walk if we don't win them?

👀,,,1,16:35:07,,107.77.76.78,ok,18876,09/18/2017 16:35:07,XavierNeville,reader,, 851813,35505,toffeeweb,18/09/2017,Raymond Fox,dorothyafox@btinternet.com,"I don't want Koeman as manager but all this we've spent 𧵄m is a red herring. Yes, we have but we have lost Lukaku and others, and if Barkley and Niasse had left we would have spent ---- all!

Have we a player apart from Barkley and maybe Coleman that the usual top six might want? I cant see one.

We are up the creek in January as well, all the decent players we might want to sign are twice as expensive as they were 6 months ago.

We've well and truly missed the boat.

I'm all for positivity, but I'm also realistic.

Well said mate and its a similar story at Benfica who were struggling under Koeman and @ AZ Alkmar who lost 7 of their first 16 games under Koeman's tenure.

Ronald Koeman is a fraud who lives off his reputation as a top player. Top player doesn't equate to top manager though, does it? Ask Ruud Hullit and Frank De Boer.

What bargains I hear you ask?

The Everton half-price fire sale:

Gylfi Sigurdsson yours for just £20m,
Davy Klaasen a bargain £10m,
Sandro a knock down £3m,
Rooney £1m, but must provide free chauffer,
sign all of the above and you get a free Cuco Martina and Omar Niasse.

(just a joke guys - I do rate Sigurdsson and Klaasen, and I have hopes for Sandro)

That said, it's not that we lost. It's the way we lost that I find the most troubling. We have been played off the park, completely surrendered, ran out of gas in 3 of the 4, and but for a few flashes of brilliance, (and some pure luck) would have drawn or even lost, the other two.

This is more than lack of confidence. This project is in big trouble, and I'm not sure Koeman has the skills to make it right.

Four games to sort it out.

If his teams made you dream, like Guardiola's sometimes do, you could sort of forgive him. But no: they're as boring and cynical as he is.

I'm not chomping at the bit with the idea of getting rid of the manager now which won't achieve much unless we were to bring in someone so outstanding that it was a no-brainer. He still just about deserves some more time and patience but I just feel a numb sense of disappointment that Koeman seems already to lack any ambition to get Everton playing positively.

I think we should be aiming to at least get higher than 7th and challenge the top 5. That's different to saying that I think we will be able to get in the top 4 or that we should be in the top 4 (no team should be). I just want to watch an Everton that plays to win and makes me proud and one that does so without a kamikaze defence that's all!

Look, I know we have new players, a lot. It takes time to gel... blar blar! But not what I want to hear from the man in charge.

The team lacks any spirit, any balance; we will all be crying when we get done by Sunderland.

Sack this prick now. Let Unsworth take it on, at least we will see some spirit and heart, for god sake. Fight for the shirt, die for it if you have to...

Howard / Robles – Stekelenburg / Pickford

Baines / Jagielka / Stones / Coleman – Williams / Keane / Martina

Besic / Barry / McCarthy / Cleverley – Gana / Schneiderlin

Barkley / McGeady / Mirallas – Klaassen / Sigurdsson / Rooney

Lukaku / Kone / Deulofeu – Sandro / Calvert-Lewin

Just a thought...

1. Koeman & his Dutch Team have no connection to EFC or the City, never mind the history of our club.

2. Koeman does not want this job anymore & either he will be fired after Christmas (when we will still be in the bottom 3) or he will negotiate a settlement figure and resign.

3. Koeman as a great footballer cannot be questioned, but how many great footballers have made great managers?

4. Dutch football has been slow and unadventurous since 1990s, it's progress at International level on a par with our very own (uninspiring & a let down at major tournaments).

5. Why did our Chairman & new major shareholder not look at his and his coaching staff's employment history before offering him and his cronies more than ٦ million in salaries?

Other people on this site have recently found the Valencia debacle Koeman left, which I was aware of last season, but if any of you have the time, look up Koeman's CV and his brother's CV; it makes horrendous reading if you look at it in detail.

Finally if Ronald and Erwin can't motivate teams in their own Country, how the fuck can they motivate our great team?

I can only hope Koeman does a Koeman and fucks off the whole board and then Unsworth is given the job.

Money has ruined the game at every level and I can't bear to even check results for the last couple of seasons. I might revert to supporting Welsh rugby. At least they sometimes win.

There's no wide players to protect the full backs and stop the opposition's advancing wingers and full-backs running Baines and Martina ragged. We're being pushed back like a League 2 side defending against a Premier League side 1-0 down in an FA Cup tie, week after week.

How he's not changed his tactics is a mystery. And how Mr Koeman did not know this was going to happen vs Spurs, Chelsea and Man Utd is beyond me as they've been playing this way for fucking years, Ronald!!!!

Yes, I don't expect to beat the mentioned teams week-in & week-out but I expect to give them a run for their money, take points from them, and not embarrass ourselves week after week.

If that happens I don't think it will be the end of Koeman but he'll probably find himself with one foot out of the door.

Might be a good opportunity for someone to tap up Eddie Howe.

Four huge games coming our way. We want to see results go our way. If not, this plantpot needs to go ASAP.

Yet another win. Well done, Blues!!!

Excellent post at 83

"When presented with two great chances"

I only watched the game in real time and haven't looked back at it, so you can correct me if I'm wrong.

I recall the ball across the 18-yard line that he dragged wide. And the chance he created for himself with a block tackle.

Are you talking about different chances that he was presented with?

Happy like Mark @ 112 to chip in 𧴜 to hire a plane with a 'Koeman Out' banner to get this dour Moyes Mk 2 (that's a diservice to Dreary!) charlatan out of the club before he can do any more damage.

They don't count. Only Man Utd's missed chances count.

And I don't want to denigrate Unsworth but my heart sank when last season one of his players, I forget which one, went on and on about how proud he was about his own ball retention stats, to Unsworth's huge delight, like it was the be-all and end-all.

I mean I know it's a job an' all to some of these buggers but if I only wanna see a bloke do a job competently I might as well watch the binnies once a week. Me missus says they're pretty good after all.

Sigh!

Why does this always come up? Someone's doing a shit job, and our argument is "Well, who else are we going to get?" as if that's some reason to keep him.

Hell, even Eddie Howe. That Bournemouth are below us in the table isn't really here nor there; given the massive disparity in resources, time in the Premier League, and stature of club, he's still doing a better job than Koeman. And he has done a clearly fine job the last several seasons. Not that it's a call for him to be our manager, but "they're below us in the table" is no argument.

Thomas Tuchel is out there, available, and highly rated. David Unsworth has demonstrated lots of promise in managing an excellent U-23 team. Managers can still come through the ranks and be successful.

That's a shortlist of three options without even thinking about it or researching it. And it's not like there aren't a lot of managers out there who'd be interested in the resources and quality of player that we still possess.

But no, some of us seriously say let's offer them Unsy, Sam'my, Pul'y or Howe'y instead? The queue'll be non-existent. Get real folks, per-lease.

At present, and I am sure I am not alone in saying this, I already feel humiliation at watching the current shower we have seen since the tail end of last season.

Bring on additional humiliation I say if it gets a message across to the powers that be that the fanbase is getting restless and have lost or are loosing faith in Koeman to turn this current situation around.

If you still have faith in Koeman, you are entitled to that opinion as much as I am entitled to mine so please don't belittle mine as a stupid opinion if it differs from yours because you believe in supporting a different approach.

Nigel @ 119 – what would be the harm in giving Unsworth a crack as a caretaker manager until at least the January window? If it didn't look like it was working out for Unsworth by this point, then the club could look at getting in someone with more experience and a proven track record which in effect would give the club more time to do due diligence. I do not believe the situation could get much worse than it already is under Koeman.

As for Eddie Howe, yes he has done a good job the last few seasons, as has Koeman; he got Southampton into Europe, got us into Europe.

But I guess it's not up to us to put a short list together is it, it's up to the board. We'll just have to suffer the next poor choice.

If you're going to take a risk on someone who's done well at a small to mid sized club, then probably better to take the risk on someone young, who's still likely to grow and change in their career and improve.

But I agree with you about the board. If we move Koeman on, we'll end up with some other "low risk" appointment. Someone who'll keep us where we might expect to finish, no more.

At the level below the richest, most successful current teams, the appointments that have the chance to bring the most success are probably the appointments that have the chance to blow up in our faces, too.

And it's not an easy job. Of the managers in my time watching Everton, there are only two who weren't pretty much exactly who I expected us to hire. Who weren't the "safe" choice. Mike Walker, who was a disaster. And David Moyes, who in his early years genuinely took us significant strides forward from where we were when he took over.

The angst shown among us fans to our poor start to the season has been understandable because, for the first time in a very long time, the club seemed to be getting its act together in the transfer market by doing the majority of its business early. Without wanting to go over the same discussions as other threads, there have been glaring omissions.

That said... EIGHT new first team players have been brought in and SIX let go (excluding youngsters and loanees).

That's one hell of a turnover in playing staff that need to learn how to play together. Despite this, we haven't played the same team in consecutive games even though we have played TEN first-team games this season. It's no wonder the performances have been disjointed as any promising combinations have been curtailed before they have the chance to flourish (I have no clue whether Klaassen or Sigurdsson will be successful because they haven't played in successive combinations).

While the result on Sunday was the biggest defeat of the four in a row ,there were some positives in the general play.

In past seasons, the League Cup has been used to rotate the team and blood youngsters and using it as a naughty boys session if players weren't performing.

This season, we can't afford to keep chopping and changing the team – at some stage, there needs to be consistency of selection! To my mind, we should select if not exactly the same team as Sunday on Wednesday but keep the changes to a minimum (Williams or Jagielka out for Sandro or Calvert-Lewin) and that, barring suspension and injury, this should be the same team that plays at the weekend.

Only by playing the same team consistently will we know whether the start has been a blip or is symptomatic of wider issues within the team and management.

There is no choice here, if he doesn't turn it around and we get hammered in the derby, he'll be gone on 11 December.

If we as a club want to be the best we have to be able to compete with and beat the best and I'm afraid with Koeman in charge this is further from reality than at any point in the last 6 seasons.

He needs to go.

It is not just Ronald who is to blame for this situation; all the suits around the table have let the club down.

This leads me to believe there will be no managerial change at all, at least not until next April, whether the fans like it or not.

So I'm resisting calling for his head and want to get behind the whole club. Here's hoping and willing the current lads and manager start producing the goods, and gel into a solid team unit.

In addition I'm praying for 1 or2 quality effective strikers in January, amongst other necessary reinforcements.

Walsh has his work cut out, but if he ever needed to earn his money it is now.

I said to him that Everton were poor, but he told me that Spurs were a good side though. "I know, Dychy," I said, "but what don't you do in football when you are playing against a good side?"

Been away, watched Everton through drunken eyes against Atalanta, and just think it would be best if Koeman left now.

Early days, a new squad, but whatever he's trying to get his players to do just isn't working. How can the players know their jobs if the man in charge keeps changing things around?

Knowing your trade applies right across the workplace.Although I'm sure Koeman knows his football, he's totally lost his way, and doesn't look like he's got the slightest idea what to do about it.

Given that we have no strikers, I'm not sure how we are expected to win this one. Last time I checked, Bournemouth had several strikers.

But, don't worry, folks, we have a new ground on the horizon.

With regard to the plane protests, people have short memories. What actually happened last time was that Kenwright suddenly developed an unspecified illness.

Fair points.

Ha – That's called being a little unwell. John :-)

http://newsthump.com/2017/09/18/driving-ban-sees-wayne-rooney-open-up-eight-point-gap-over-everton/

Super post, nail on the head exactly, well said

There may still be some way to go.

This may be splitting hairs but I thought he was sitting with the away fans which would put him with our boys? Surprised no photos have surfaced though.

What I find worrying is that there are too many things about the club I simply don't understand.

How is the working relationship between Koeman and Walsh supposed to work? Who takes the ultimate responsibility for each signing? In my opinion, it should be Koeman but some of his comments seem to be confusing.

How can Everton spend so much and not address the problem of lack of pace in the team? Koeman should be asked directly to explain how this has happened.

Does Koeman intend to stay beyond his 3-year contract? If he was a player, a club would be looking to extend a contract. Do we wait for Koeman to decide if we are good enough for him? There is supposed to be a project but so far there are few signs of progress or commitment to the cause at Everton.

What is the real story behind the Barkley situation? How does a young Blue who has loved the club all his life become so alienated from it?

Niasse may or may not be good enough but the way he was treated last year appears to be disgraceful especially the business of denying him a locker. What does this say about the manager?

Just what is going on?

If things don't improve on the pitch, I think he will walk within 4 weeks. I reckon the board would give him longer.

Insofar as to what is going on off the pitch, it's anyone's guess.

The bottom line is, we're not performing well, and it's apparent that the manager is not very good at tactics or man-management. These are necessary for good performance on the pitch, so it's apparent that the manager isn't good enough.

If a player under-performed as consistently as Koeman has as our manager, we'd hopefully get shut fairly quickly, certainly if we have real ambition.

We have a squad of good players, but their abilities are being squandered by mis-management. This needs nipping in the bud, so Koeman needs to be sacked, and quickly.

Looking forward to seeing what he can do tomorrow ....!

Thought for the day – If Ronald Koeman was a player, would he have a locker?

Thanks

A confused Everton fan.

I hope the board are looking at possible alternatives proactively because one way or another (push or jump) there is a fair chance of needing a contingency but, as I have said elsewhere, I will continue to hope we sort it all out.

We have some pace in the squad but he won't play those players. In the first half against Split we had wingers, Morgan was passing well to them and we looked dangerous. Since then he has reverted to good midfielders but with no outlet either wide or up top and that makes us way too easy to play against.

Surely he will try wingers again tomorrow?

Roberto was sacked after a string of terrible results. This would be right up there.

If you look at the likes of Pedro at Chelsea and the lad for Man Utd, Mkhitaryan, they looked a complete waste of money in their first season and yet look at them now!

So I still have hope for Klaassen and Sandro but it may take a while...

So, do you think he would, or wouldn't?

Mr Koeman has never impressed me and, based on his track record outside of Holland being somewhat unspectacular, I could not fathom the stampede to sign him. I would describe his tactics as inept and his signings as a disgrace. He appears vacant, arrogant and incompetent in equal measure.

In my humble opinion he should leave.

Go out and try to convince Tuchel that it is not a lost cause.

Valencia put your head between your toes and whistle up your
Barcelona.

I fear Keoman has got his head stuck up his Barcelona.

This might work if we could then play the ball into a decent target man, and get players running off him, but we never signed one unfortunately.

Everton have now got some very good players, but the coach, has got to change tack if he wants to instil some real belief into his players, and also quite possibly himself. I wonder what his backroom staff are trying to do to help?

Surprised Barcelona aren't after him, he makes much more of an impact than Coutinho.

"I'm not happy with how we have started the season but, please, let's be a little realistic about Everton."

Yeah, little Everton, right?

Isn't upwards (of last year's 7th) supposed to be exactly where you and the board were aiming for this term? Spend all that dosh – getting we fans all excited in the process! On countless players each one good to do pretty much the same job, then show you neither have a clue how to fit them all in, nor get the whole team clicking as some sort of progressive unit, and, yes.. the expectations suddenly crash!!.. but that's down to you... No-one's now looking towards Goodison Park and saying, "Wow, now those particular boys in blue really are going to be a team to watch out for this season!"

Everyone suddenly IS being very realistic about our chances (of even turning up to give someone a proper game!) but again both the previous hopes and expectation, and this realisation of just how mind-numbingly predictable we really are right now, are absolutely to be lain at the managers door!!!

This said, I do believe, at least for now, that we can quickly turn things around.. but just wish our manager had focused more on that aspect (of intention and capability) rather than knock us as if to basically say, 'Its not me.. what else did you really expect from this club?'...

And so bollocks to him!! Koeman, do your job; turn it around sharpish, or shut up and get out of the way!!!

"Naah, you're just being shit, now!!" Woody would have said of these latest clueless outings!!!

Martinez finished 5th a few years ago with no money . Wake up, Ron, and smell the roses.

His utterings to the media have been so inept that Everton should not have allowed him to speak freely, in that any statements he made should have been carefully crafted by the club, regardless of any attempts by the media to ask loaded questions.

The main defence that folks have offered for giving him more time, is his reputation as a player rather than as a manager. That alone is an indictment of his level of managerial skill, when folks have to refer to his playing days.

I suspect Everton are working behind the scenes to find a replacement, whilst letting him dig his grave deeper with his continued inept mutterings. I just hope we show we've learned from the past, and are quick about getting rid of dead wood.

Realistically at the start okay not going to win the league but challenging the top 4 some prefer to say top 6 was realistic. All gone to pot now. Get us up to 7th or 8th and a trophy with Europe again that would be a successful season. Is 7th or 8th that realistic now though?