Oumar Niasse reflected on his match-winning intervention against Bournemouth yesterday and says that he hopes to fully grasp the opportunity handed him by the circumstances at Everton.
The 27-year-old scored a vital brace that completed the Blues' comeback against the Cherries and helped Ronald Koeman escape an awkward post-mortem at the hands of the media.
Everton had toiled through almost an hour of the game with Koeman's preferred midfield formation yielding few clear-cut chances when he elected to make two decisive changes, introducing Tom Davies and Niasse for Davy Klaassen and Wayne Rooney.
The pair combined twice in the space of five minutes, with the Senegalese striker taking his two chances to complete a fairytale week following his midweek goal against Sunderland in the League Cup.
“It's a great moment for me here at Everton because I've been waiting since one and a half years ago,” Niasse said in the tunnel after the game. I've had to keep going, keep working.
“Honestly, I always keep fighting. It's been a difficult period for me but, like I said, I'm aways trying to give my best. I didn't sign for another team, I signed for Everton so even if I didn't have the chance from the beginning, the coach has given me a chance and I need to take it with both of my hands so I'm thankful about that.
“We've had a bad start to the league. Now we're coming back after the win in the middle of the week and it's another win. Now we have to keep going for the next two games before the [international] break so I'm happy for the team now.”
Niasse gave credit to Tom Davies, another standout performer from the win over Sunderland overlooked for the starting XI by Ronald Koeman yesterday.
The 19-year-old midfielder played Niasse in with a smart pass for the first goal which he hammered past Asmir Begovic and it was the deflection off Davies' hard, low ball towards the far post that provided him with the chance to convert the winner.
“He's a good a player,” the striker said of Davies, “ and I think he can get better. I've been working with him in the Under-23s so I know how he plays and how he can give the ball to me.
“He's a good character for the team because we were 1-0 down at home and had lost three games in a row so it was very difficult. But the confidence is back and hopefully we're going to keep it before the break and we can keep working … because we've got quality in the team.”
Reader Comments (272)
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1 Posted 24/09/2017 at 18:41:31
Keep going, young man. You are a model of how to fight adversity and keep your head high when things are not going your way. An inspiration to anyone in any field of work. Wish you all the very best and success with Everton.
2 Posted 24/09/2017 at 18:55:45
3 Posted 24/09/2017 at 19:22:04
4 Posted 24/09/2017 at 19:29:40
"I scored two goals for Hull today and it means a lot but also it's against Liverpool and I am an Everton player so it feels good." Words to that effect...
You will do for me, Oumar, and these fans who are saying he isn't the answer or wouldn't get us 20 goals, how do you know? Jamie Vardy was playing for Fleetwood 2 years before winning the Premier League for Leicester.
Truth is, we are all eating humble pie not just Koeman and none of us know what Niasse might achieve.
5 Posted 24/09/2017 at 19:40:57
Niasse is the answer
He will score from anywhere
6 Posted 24/09/2017 at 19:51:50
I have high hopes for Klaassen and Sandro and like Niasse they've joined a team that isn't functioning properly. It's hard enough as it is moving to a new league in a new country with a different culture. Hopefully his attitude rubs off on the rest of the squad and we push on from here.
7 Posted 24/09/2017 at 19:53:52
8 Posted 24/09/2017 at 19:54:51
9 Posted 24/09/2017 at 19:56:48
10 Posted 24/09/2017 at 20:09:51
11 Posted 24/09/2017 at 20:26:25
If we're honest, most of us thought it was some money laundering exercise when he first came.
It is no mean feat scoring 3 in 2 games for a struggling side, so well done Oumar, and may it long continue.
12 Posted 24/09/2017 at 20:30:25
13 Posted 24/09/2017 at 20:41:45
We all mocked Niasse, let's be honest, but he's played a blinder done the job. He may not be long term but he deserves his chance.
14 Posted 24/09/2017 at 20:48:49
15 Posted 24/09/2017 at 20:54:45
The Board are really pleased as his value has gone up and he nearly went to Hull / Brighton!
Koeman should do Euromillions next Tuesday.
16 Posted 24/09/2017 at 21:04:42
But you're dead right about his parents; I was thinking precisely that a couple of hours ago. He has been brought up with his feet firmly on the ground.
18 Posted 24/09/2017 at 21:10:31
19 Posted 24/09/2017 at 21:15:09
20 Posted 24/09/2017 at 21:17:41
The first whispers that Oumar wasn't that hot came from Finch Farm before Niasse had kicked a ball for the club. Then he hardly got a look in with Martinez saying he wasn't fit with a wrist injury; then Koeman issued his verdict on him at the start of last season after a brief look at him. Was this Ronnie's own decision? The whole business is very strange; nobody really knows what went on, but now we are up to date and we can all start to make our own minds up about the lad.
For myself, we are short of established strikers. Calvert-Lewin is going to be a very good Number 9 in my opinion and Oumar can give him plenty of help in the coming months... in fact, they can help each other. Certainly now the striker situation doesn't look as bleak as it did even a week ago; Niasse has brightened the place up, I hope he continues to do so.
21 Posted 24/09/2017 at 21:18:06
Your own intelligence tells you that he is decent take no notice of what the so-called football experts say, judge him with your own eyes on the pitch!
Lukaku's first touch was like a dog chasing a balloon, but he could score goals; this lad is a goalscorer and my above comments back this statement up!
22 Posted 24/09/2017 at 21:30:49
43.01 For all matches from the start of the round of 32, a club may register a maximum of three new eligible players for the remaining matches in the current competition. Such registration must be completed by 1 February 2018 (24.00 CET) at the latest. This deadline cannot be extended.
So basically he can play after the group stages if we choose to register him (and we qualify!).
You gotta love the guy ,and you gotta love the story – props to him (as the kidz say) and fair play to Koeman for playing him (for whatever reason).
23 Posted 24/09/2017 at 21:32:07
24 Posted 24/09/2017 at 21:45:07
25 Posted 24/09/2017 at 21:57:57
Yet here he is, everybody's hero and quite rightly with his recent goals. But hypocritically we are using him to beat Koeman up. I thought we all agreed with Koeman at the time. So we were all wrong as well as Koeman!!
The constant berating of the manager by many on here completely goes against the ethos of supporting a team through thick and thin.
We suffer as a team at home games because of a complete lack of support. Sparse noise, critical atmosphere and impending vitriol for any misplaced pass or mistake. Why do we expect our players to perform at their best in these conditions? Would any of you?
We have become hawkers of doom and negativity, no positivity and patience on the terraces. As so-called supporters, I, a fan of over 50 years of feast and famine, am ashamed of our critical outpourings both in here and at Goodison Park.
26 Posted 24/09/2017 at 22:03:06
He must have a great deal of self-belief and a strong will to come through all of this and still maintain such dignity despite people not always backing him.
I hope that some of our other boys also see that they can adjust to the Premier League, given time both the new signings and our Under-23s.
27 Posted 24/09/2017 at 22:12:42
28 Posted 24/09/2017 at 22:16:34
I don't remember anyone actually slagging him but we pretty much all wanted the club to sell him. Just shows how naive we can be sometimes. I think we're all very happy he is still with us and we have all recognised just how well he has handled himself.
He has certainly taken the club to his heart and that's what I admire the most about him, not his goal scoring feats but his humility in the face of adversity. I just hope that Ronald can take to him and include him. He's given him his chance, now he needs to coach him and nurture him. He could be Ron's saviour.
29 Posted 24/09/2017 at 22:22:48
I was just wondering which coach he was referring to,the one who oversaw his potential or the one who has been forced (by the fans) to eat humble pie by playing him.
30 Posted 24/09/2017 at 22:26:59
I'd be more worried that Koeman does coach him.
31 Posted 24/09/2017 at 22:28:11
I am led to believe the last minute transfer to Palace broke down due to the demands of the agent concerning his fee.
I have no time for agents whatsoever but the greedy leech has done us an indirect favour.
Hope the lad continues to score and leaves lashings of egg on Koeman's face.
32 Posted 24/09/2017 at 22:43:31
The club have treated him shabbily. Martinez bought him and did not play him. Koeman's comments were ill advised and unnecessary and I am generally pro Koeman.
Niasse is a model pro; his response has been impeccable. Refreshing change from most modern players.
33 Posted 24/09/2017 at 22:54:06
34 Posted 24/09/2017 at 23:13:00
35 Posted 24/09/2017 at 23:14:01
I remember someone saying that Dickson Etuhu I think when he was at Man City or Fulham completely dominated games in training, but couldn't find the same level of control and assertiveness in actual matches. Perhaps Niasse is in the opposite camp but what he might lack in skill and control during training sessions he makes up for in energy, enthusiasm and effort come game time.
I think most people recognise that goal-scorers do not have to be as technically proficient as other players. Filippo Inzaghi, Miroslav Klose, Gary Lineker none of them were technically brilliant footballers, but they knew how to make the most of the gifts they had. Hopefully Niasse has a good blend of attitude, pace, killer instinct, and that much overlooked quality luck.
Like many others, I didn't see much to get excited about when he made his first few appearances during the Martinez reign and I think there will be games that pass him by, when things don't go his way and he'll look clumsy and uncultured, but the signs are starting to look good that he has a lot to offer the team this season and perhaps beyond. I imagine he'll always make unselfish runs and create chaos for opposition defences who may struggle to deal with his somewhat unconventionally direct style.
36 Posted 24/09/2017 at 23:34:01
How many Everton players have scored 3 goals in less than 90 minutes playing time at this level? He is already joint top scorer across all competitions with Calvert-Lewin and joint top in the Premier League with Rooney.
I just hope that Koeman has learnt the lesson and continues to give Oumar game time.
37 Posted 24/09/2017 at 23:43:32
You will be Everton's top goal scorer this season. Other strikers have a easier job. They don't have to perform to the same level as you, but your beliefs will keep you going.
38 Posted 25/09/2017 at 00:36:16
We are clutching straws here as the club has let us down again so we are going to accept second best yet again good old plucky old Everton.
This is not dissing Niasse it's Everton. I hope he has a great career and scores loads of goals for a success Everton team but come on we all know that we are papering over the cracks yet again!
I want more for Everton, I want a team that wins trophies but the club is happy for us to accept mediocrity and we are so starved of success that we accept it.
39 Posted 25/09/2017 at 01:15:59
You don't need to coach this pairing, Koeman, you buffoon. Just start them together and take the credit.
40 Posted 25/09/2017 at 01:20:39
I thought he looked keen and ran some very useful lines but got very little useful supply. At times he looked like Bambi on ice and he obviously had some domestic issues, but the rush to make a damning and permanent judgement seemed excessive to me.
Mind you, making a rapid judgment and defending it to the death seems to be considered as some sort of virtue these days.
41 Posted 25/09/2017 at 02:26:47
Chuffed for the fellah, no doubt... but it's one game; let's see where he is by Christmas.
42 Posted 25/09/2017 at 02:54:12
43 Posted 25/09/2017 at 03:06:06
Good luck to anyone who plays for Everton with passion and a understanding of the fans.
44 Posted 25/09/2017 at 03:25:35
Joe Royle allegedly said "he's shit" as reported by supposedly "in the know" fans on forums.
Lukaku said "he's really raw".
That apart, neither Martinez nor Koeman picked him. Also, various people claimed the Russian player of the year thing was orchestrated by his agent.
Based on all of the above both the real and the unsubstantiated, most people thought he was shit.
45 Posted 25/09/2017 at 04:11:25
Two of his goals have been first class too. Great first touches from tricky balls into him, and both absolutely mint finishes.
His first on Saturday… I haven't watched a replay of one of our goals so many times for as long as I can remember. Firstly it was a cracking strike, but secondly the Gwladys Street seemed to erupt like I've not seen in a long time. Probably a lot of pent-up frustration pouring out. I bloody love it when it goes off like that!
More of the same please, Oumar!
46 Posted 25/09/2017 at 04:21:40
For the truest depiction of how things actually are with our team at the minute, we just have to recall Harry Enfield's West Brom team (in a sketch in his old, old comedy series) running in what was basically a line, a queue, of players after the ball!! Now that was funny.. .this is not!!!
(Says all we need to know when a player the manager had written off, as had most of us, gets another opportunity due to that same managers inability to get everyone else playing properly as a Premier League team, and takes that chance to make said manager gag on some 'humble' - not that he ever will be very humble! - pie!!!)...
47 Posted 25/09/2017 at 06:28:18
Watching replays of the first goal on Saturday, Niasse actually started the move, kept going and was in a superb position when Tom Davies played a pinpoint pass exactly where Oumar wanted it. Then, one touch to take it clear of the defender and a thunderous shot that gave the keeper no chance. If that goal had been scored by say, Deli Alli or by a Neymar or Messi it would probably have been hailed as a stroked of genius. I'm not saying Oumar is the next Messi (who knows though), but that goal was a real striker's goal.
The second goal showed strength and resilience and damn fast reflexes together with a never say die attitude to force the ball home. Given regular game time, I see no reason why Oumar can't go on to bigger and better things, and I for one would live to see him do it for Everton, the club he has clearly taken to his heart.
In an interview about him, Koeman is now saying he did have a locker last season but if he did, why didn't Koeman say that last season? He left the ground in a tracksuit on Saturday because the club never ordered him a club suit. The Guardian reports that they have now ordered him one in time for this Saturday and go on to say, "There should also be a thank you note from Koeman in the pocket."
If Koeman is foolish enough to overlook Niasse in the next few games, it will say far more about Koeman than it will about Oumar Niasse.
Going back to your post, Paul at #21, the one thing you neglected to mention was that he was a Senegal international who had, up to the point of us signing him, also scored twice for his country that season in three appearances in the African Cup of Nations qualifiers.
Whatever went wrong on his arrival is now past history and we should get behind him and give him the support we give to any of our strikers who gives us the one thing we ask from them... goals! He could just turn out to be something special; only time and regular game time will tell.
48 Posted 25/09/2017 at 07:12:02
Oumar is a class act. Long may this fairy-tale continue.
49 Posted 25/09/2017 at 07:57:08
His first goal was very well taken. He obviously knows where the net is maybe he can show Ramirez too. He's been a pro he's well liked by the players. And by today's standards £13.5mill ain't a lot.
We had the luxury of Lukaku banging goals last season now we have to find an alternative... so give him the game time and who knows hey. He isn't the crappest player in the team, that's for sure. Oumar, prove us all wrong, son!
50 Posted 25/09/2017 at 08:01:39
Fair play to Oumar. He obviously has a great attitude. It will be interesting to see how he gets on. Goals always help. He seems to play with a smile on his face. Shame we couldn't have paired him with Costa. His snarling manner would have given us naughty and nice up front.
Calvert-Lewin should also be praised for his part in the second goal. Neat control and then laid the ball off for Tom Davies. I appreciate it looked easy to do but how many times this season have we seen what appeared to be easy passes go astray?
51 Posted 25/09/2017 at 08:12:32
Oumar is the answer,
He's an Evertonian,
He will score anywhere,
Lift your hand and voices,
Free your mind and join us,
You can feel it in the air,
Oumar has got passion,
Oh, you can feel it in the air,
Oumar has got passion,
Oh, you can feel it in the air
Ooh ooh ooh oh.
52 Posted 25/09/2017 at 08:27:14
His hold-up play on Saturday was excellent and he himself recovered Baines's wayward pass to start the move for the first goal.
Not registered for Europe is another own goal. Back to Sigurdsson and Rooney for Thursday then.
53 Posted 25/09/2017 at 08:36:02
I said it weeks ago before he started scoring and have said it for a while, he was never as bad as most made him out to be. He's a sub at the moment for me, get him up to match fitness, then who knows?
54 Posted 25/09/2017 at 08:40:40
It remains to be seen whether he starts on Sunday against Burnley and I suspect he will not, but hopefully we can see at least a half-hour stint depending on how we are doing in that match.
Also great to see he made it into Garth Crooks's team of the week for the beeb alongside Kane and Morata!
55 Posted 25/09/2017 at 09:00:13
Well done young man.
As a fellow African, I am 100% in his corner and I hope he continues to shine.
56 Posted 25/09/2017 at 09:49:51
57 Posted 25/09/2017 at 09:56:23
Maybe it's a Dutch thing, or maybe it's just Koeman, but I feel there are certain times in life when a diplomatic silence can speak volumes. Instead, Koeman is reported in The Echo as defending his previous treatment of Oumar Niasse.
So, after the euphoria and happiness generated by Niasse's performance on Saturday, our manager basically decides to try and burst the bubble by raking up the past and in effect, is trying to defend the indefensible.
Whichever way you choose to look at it, and no matter what we as fans may have thought about Niasse at the time, it has always been acknowledged that he was badly treated as a human being by Ronald Koeman. He was publicly ridiculed by his own manager and made to train with the kids before being sent to Hull on loan.
To be told if he wanted to play football he needed to leave the club was the type of pronouncement that should have been made in private in Koeman's office and not been made public, unless it was done by Koeman in an attempt to get the fans on his side by making an example of Niasse for whatever reason he saw fit.
Never once did Niasse complain, even when being faced with loaded questions by the press that gave him the opportunity to have a go back at Koeman. Instead, he maintained a dignified silence on his treatment and even mentioned that, as an Everton player, he was extra pleased to have scored against Liverpool for Hull. So, even though he had been frozen out by Koeman's actions, he still displayed a remarkable loyalty to Everton Football Club.
Koeman is now also saying that he did have a locker last season, but surely, if that was true, and him supposed to be Mr Honesty personified, Koeman should have said so when the story was filling space in most of the newspapers at the time it was first reported.
The lad left Goodison Park on Saturday wearing an Everton tracksuit because the club, (Koeman?) didn't order him a club suit – even when he'd been added to the squad for this season. Apparently they have now ordered him one for this coming Saturday.
I could be wrong of course, but for Koeman to suddenly try to publicly defend his actions of a year ago smacks of Koeman showing a degree of petulance in response to Niasse suddenly being hailed as a hero by the fans. What other reason can he have for raking up his actions of a year ago?
Why not just take the plaudits for reintroducing Niasse to the squad and perhaps just mentioning that the past is just that, and we, as a club are now going forward with Oumar Niasse as a member of the first team squad?
His reaction to Niasse's first goal on Saturday hardly endeared him to the crowd and he almost forgot himself when joining in the celebrations of the second. Or did he realise at that point that Niasse might have just provided him with a lifeline on his job, which was beginning to look more and more precarious with each defeat piled on defeat?
Come on, Mr Six Million Pound manager, show a little graciousness and class. At the moment you are still on sticky ground and your team selections for the next few games will show just how much you have learned or not learned from the events of the last week.
Try giving Oumar Niasse a spot of unqualified praise for his two performances, but please do not try to justify treating him, or anyone for that matter, as you did a year ago.
All credit to Oumar Niasse for not letting Koeman's treatment of him destroy him both personally and professionally, as it might have done, and for his stance in maintaining a dignified silence over what took place last year. If only our manager, the so-called leader, motivator and man-manager of the team, could do the same, and learn to keep his mouth shut from time to time.
Maybe the Dutch are not familiar with the phrase, 'Silence is golden'. If not, it's time someone educated Koeman in its meaning and when a little diplomacy is best served after you have been made to look a bit of a prat.
58 Posted 25/09/2017 at 10:13:45
Above all, what surprised me and probably the Everton manager too was the supreme quality of Niasse‘s first touch for his goal on Wednesday and his first goal on Saturday.
It Is no mean feat to get some control on a through pass zipped in at that pace. The control and finish was sublime.
I take my hat off to the lad, and if he hasn't earned a start next Sunday, I don't know what will!
59 Posted 25/09/2017 at 10:14:58
Koeman has to go. He makes Martinez appear competent, as former manager of Everton. Come to think of it, Martinez never wasted any transfer money on any flops even at Wigan. He always had to sell his best players and bring in other ones – Kone was unlucky with injuries at Everton.
60 Posted 25/09/2017 at 10:17:40
I am sure there are many more fans who find the turgid negativity of others both depressing and shaming. We as fans can play a part in promoting confidence and a sense of belonging by the nature of our support at Goodison and in and around social media. Who knows some of it may even help the players?
Another point. It is interesting how the fans, who's judgement on player and staff ability is quick and scathing, often try to say that their opinion is that of the majority of fans. I read in an above post 'We all thought Niasse was crap.' No doubt like we all think 'Martina is crap' or Schneiderlin or Rooney is past it and has nothing to contribute. Or Koeman is clueless.
We didn't and we don't.
61 Posted 25/09/2017 at 10:17:51
What a breath of fresh air his humility and courtesy are; what a joy to see the reaction to him of youngsters like Davies and Calvert-Lewin; and what a burst of energy and skill he brought in that first goal on Saturday from the moment he won the ball on the left wing. Oumar!
62 Posted 25/09/2017 at 10:20:04
I believe the division fomented by the manager of the team is far more conducive to under performance than any negativity from the crowd.
Evertonians all support the team and club; the lack of passion currently at Goodison Park is a direct result of the negative rubbish we have been served up under Ronald Koeman.
63 Posted 25/09/2017 at 10:40:26
That said I'm not holding my breath about Oumar. In 40 odd years, I've see too many one hit wonders up front Dave Irving, Alan Biley, Danny Cadamarteri, Nick Chadwick to name a few.
Mentioning him and Gary Lineker in the same breath is a measure of how hard folk want to see Koeman fall on his face, rather than any serious evaluation of his ability. Surely?
64 Posted 25/09/2017 at 10:42:40
65 Posted 25/09/2017 at 10:46:33
66 Posted 25/09/2017 at 10:47:03
What number is touching your bollocks while posting?
Is that Dominic King the kopite?
67 Posted 25/09/2017 at 10:50:09
Said it at the time.
Man City will score a minimum if two goals in every home game. To restrict a potent attacking force like City to 7 shots on goal was a defensive masterclass.
68 Posted 25/09/2017 at 10:51:17
Its bloody annoying, whatever we comment on you can bet there's never 100% agreement.
Or maybe I'm just being pedantic.
69 Posted 25/09/2017 at 11:04:28
70 Posted 25/09/2017 at 11:10:15
71 Posted 25/09/2017 at 11:21:20
72 Posted 25/09/2017 at 11:25:32
A good defensive display, John G, but not once did any of our defenders, bring the ball out, and set us up to attack though, and Koeman brought on other players to rectify this and ended up completely wrecking the system?
I hope Niasse scores 25 goals for Everton, this season and It won't bother me if Koeman, doesn't celebrate any of them, even a last minute winner in the cup final because, once a team is picked, it's all about the players, unless of course the manager is killing us with his tactics!
73 Posted 25/09/2017 at 11:33:33
Bit more to body language than that.
74 Posted 25/09/2017 at 11:33:47
An other long winded skillfully written epic using a story line that enables you to spill you bile on Koeman. "The One-man Wrecking Ball" and many other one sided posts of yours are becoming a bit predictable now. You are entitled to your hatred of the manager but why put a thin veil over it?
You must lose a lot of sleep over Koeman especially as he looks like being here for a bit longer. I think most moderates on TW who feel Koeman should get a little more time to turn things around are not happy or confident he will do that, but let us be a bit open-minded.
75 Posted 25/09/2017 at 11:42:38
When he made the changes was he trying to win the game or solidify the draw? Klaassen for Williams and Sigurdsson for Davies suggests the former.
Overall not many will get anything at Man City.
76 Posted 25/09/2017 at 11:45:16
77 Posted 25/09/2017 at 11:50:37
Do you really think he's deliberately making a mess of things? No, he's principled and has 'his way' of doings things, but isn't that single minded attitude the reason people get into positions like his?
You could say the exact same thing about all top managers and by 'top manager' I refer to every single one of them in the Premier League.
I quite like the guy, despite our recent results and perceived treatment of Niasse. Reading Koeman's comments on the Niasse thing, I kinda got what he was saying.
He's Everton manager, and while he is, I'll still back him. You can't blame him for us not signing a striker either it's a bigger issue than just Ronald Koeman.
78 Posted 25/09/2017 at 12:14:52
79 Posted 25/09/2017 at 12:18:17
John (#62), it's a fair point you make and there is some merit in what you say, but we as alleged supporters should do so much more to generate momentum on the pitch.
We are all so proud of our young players, we are buying up all the Under-23 talent in the world it appears at times. Yet we expect to insert these young players into a cauldron of negativity and an almost sadistic need of supporters to berate any individual who has the temerity to make a mistake in the first 10 minutes.
If I had to work under those circumstances I would be looking for a more conducive vehicle for my talents ASAP.
80 Posted 25/09/2017 at 12:22:27
That said, I do not recall many, if any posts on here during the summer transfer window claiming Niassie was the option we needed as striker.
I do obviously hope he continues scoring goals to prove most of us wrong and help Everton win football matches (the only thing that matters).
81 Posted 25/09/2017 at 12:40:02
For me the manager should be the person who decides what players he wants, not the Director of Football or a member of the board, because if it goes pear shaped as it is at present the only person with his job on the line seems to be Koeman.
I could well imagine the response that any board would get if they had told Clough, Shankly or Ferguson oh we are hiring a Director of Football and he will identify the players we will buy. Now I don't know if that is happening at Everton, but I read last week that Koeman was quoted when asked about transfer targets in January said I leave that up to Steve Walsh.
I don't believe in the post of Director of Football if you want someone to buy good young talent as we seem to be doing at present great but he should not be in charge of selecting first team players. Bye the way... this job used to be done by scouts.
82 Posted 25/09/2017 at 12:57:57
If it's not broke, it doesn't need fixing, especially when we had a man advantage, so that was the one side of Everton's game-plan that didn't need to be altered IMO.
I would have brought off Davies definitely, and also probably Rooney, but it wasn't a game for those two players to come on at the same time though, especially when we were crying out for width?
As soon as we went to a flat back four, Man City went and played 4-4-1 and started getting in behind us, down the sides.
83 Posted 25/09/2017 at 13:04:51
85 Posted 25/09/2017 at 13:58:40
Two more wins before the dreaded International break would be most welcome... and I can see it happening too, if Koeman can just give youth and fringe players a chance to shine.
Onwards Blues to Thursday night victory!
86 Posted 25/09/2017 at 14:05:16
87 Posted 25/09/2017 at 14:12:57
88 Posted 25/09/2017 at 14:13:08
However, due to fate, Everton have luckily benefited from not having Oumar sold to Palace and Giroud not coming from Arsenal to allow Oumar his opportunity.
Looking forward to the fans roaring him on at every opportunity, the man deserved his chances and certainly the accolades... he is becoming everyone's favorite.
89 Posted 25/09/2017 at 14:41:34
But to our relief, and Koeman's, he is. Lets just enjoy the next few months with him. Better still, let's forget what happened; Niasse has.
90 Posted 25/09/2017 at 14:43:53
I think he changed it going for the win against 10 men. Against 11 he probably wouldn't have changed it.
One thing I would say is we didn't concede after he changed it.
91 Posted 25/09/2017 at 14:50:27
92 Posted 25/09/2017 at 15:10:24
93 Posted 25/09/2017 at 15:10:41
Exactly opposite of what you remember, I remember many posts asking for Niasse to be given a chance. And I was not one of them.
94 Posted 25/09/2017 at 16:10:50
96 Posted 25/09/2017 at 16:21:19
Such an assumption is like the assumption that he was crap, just a daft assertion with little or no evidence.
To those with this latest assumption that we all mocked Niasse, do you never learn?
97 Posted 25/09/2017 at 16:32:23
Opposing teams will have to mark him with at least one player, which should create opportunities for others.
There lies the rub; it's only Rooney and Niasse who have scored in the Premier League, although I do have faith in Calvert-Lewin opening his account soon.
We should, in a balanced team, expect goals to come from all departments.
98 Posted 25/09/2017 at 17:12:04
I hope that is not true.
As pointed out by many on here Oumar has already been denied his basic working rights under UK/EU law. The club could already face discrimination charges about treating all employees equally by not giving him a locker.
99 Posted 25/09/2017 at 17:17:28
100 Posted 25/09/2017 at 17:22:18
Where I sit in the ground, there was nobody who thought he was any use in the brief appearances he made after Martinez signed him. And to a man, we all thought he was a waste of money and wanted him shipped out and that was before Koeman was appointed.
Koeman now deserves some credit for giving Niasse a chance. Some of his signings like Sandro & Klaassen also deserve many of the OTT critics on here to give them a chance.
It's also true that Niasse's introduction on Saturdayt wasn't the only factor which changed the game others were the Pickford save after another piece of suicidal distribution from the sluggish Rooney, the withdrawal of Rooney and the introduction of Tom Davies the tempo of our play quickly changed and got the crowd going.
Finally, if our "diamond" was half the man that Niasse seems to be, he might get beyond the stage of being potential after more than 5 seasons around the Premier League.
101 Posted 25/09/2017 at 17:34:01
I understand there are a lot of reports when he arrived his attitude was not great, he did not work hard, was not a good example at training, and was having problems at home and appeared to be going off the rails with the arrest and attitude.
Martinez and fans saw a players not even able to control a ball, and certainly not the player he is today.
Koeman drew a line under it for reasons of quality, which we all agreed, attitude, fitness and behaviour. Sending him ti the U23s and the shock treatment has corrected Niasse's attitude to football. Oumar has said so or inferred such in his interview with the echo.
Good on Oumar, good on Kouman and good on Unsy and the refocus of Oumar. Without the shock treatment and the head down to save his career, he would not be in the condition he is right now.
Koeman has brought him back and sees his ability. He could have sent Lookman on or Sandro on Saturday he went for Oumar and it has worked a treat.
102 Posted 25/09/2017 at 17:57:30
Every commentator, journalist and nearly every fan at Goodison have acknowledged the poor treatment he has got from the club and Koeman in particular. And how much humble pie the manager has had to swallow because he had no choice.
Koeman was wrong to do what he did to Niasse and no amount of spin will convince me, or the rest of the population, any different. You're not in the PR department are you? If not you should apply..
103 Posted 25/09/2017 at 18:01:16
Genuinely the first I've heard of it.
104 Posted 25/09/2017 at 18:07:03
Having watched his Everton side transformed from a pedestrian pudding into a pesky and punchy force with the introduction of Oumar Niasse's pace on Saturday, you'd have thought a cartoon lightbulb might have pinged into view above Ronald Koeman's golden locks.
But no, the Everton manager apparently wants to be the first to take a walking football team into the top six – and he plans to do this by returning to Arsenal in January with £40m for Olivier Giroud, a player who is 31 this week and about as mobile as Wayne Rooney.
And it says here that Niasse – who says he has never had it easy under Koeman – will be cast out again and told to find another club in January, with Bournemouth's Josh King – who scored against the Toffees on Saturday – a possible £25m target.
105 Posted 25/09/2017 at 18:12:52
What is this "we all agreed" and "shock treatment" crap? Generally on TW we don't all agree about anything... apart from what day of the week it is.
106 Posted 25/09/2017 at 18:20:24
107 Posted 25/09/2017 at 18:22:11
108 Posted 25/09/2017 at 18:29:33
That article you quote is correct. It's almost as if Koeman is doing this on purpose.
109 Posted 25/09/2017 at 18:58:05
It's rather arrogant for you to think this, quite frankly. I, for one, totally agree with Steven. You can, therefore, remove one punter from your 'rest of the 'population'. And there will, I suspect, be many more like me.
I'm also a little fed-up with posters like you, Christine, who use Oumar's goals and success as a weapon in your unmitigated tirade against all things Koeman. Do you really think that Oumar sees it that way? Again, I suspect not.
Actually, I would much rather read what he has to say about himself not what a doom and gloom merchant on the prowl for anything that might be used to lambast and lampoon Koeman like you says.
Read: ' … the coach has given me a chance and I need to take it with both of my hands so I'm thankful about that'. I sense an innate niceness in him that might mean he will never be the sort of bullish front fella we might want.
I think that he is genuinely grateful for - as Steve rightly says - Koeman bringing him back from the fold. And he will stay there now, deservedly so. How nice it is to be an Evertonian who takes genuine pleasure in what both nice Niasse and grumpy I won't give an inch Koeman did on Saturday.
Of course, Christine you will say just like your utterly skewed 'humble pie' nonsense: 'What else could Niasse do/say'? I will not agree, if you do.
You, thankfully do not speak on behalf of me or the 'rest of the population'.
110 Posted 25/09/2017 at 18:58:28
"To restrict a potent attacking force like City to 7 shots on goal was a defensive master class."
Please stop embarrassing yourself with this apologetic nonsense. Do you not think people saw it ????
Man City missed chance after chance that night firing high and wide time and again. Sterling and Aguero were particularly profligate.
I remember being surprised when Sky said at the end that they only had 19 attempts although not surprised that only seven were on target. What the stats didn't tell was the amount of times they had chances but tried to walk it in.
This could have been a cricket score and if City had been a clinical as they have been in other games it would have been. "Defensive masterclass" ? depends on whether you actually saw the game or not. Ten-man City repeatedly penetrated our massed defence like piss through snow.
Klaassen: The guy who "was sent on to win it" simply added fresh legs to an exhausted defence. He defended his penalty area manfully making a great defending header and game saving clearances at the death. They're not in the stats either.
Given your comments, I suspect this is another case of you arguing the toss about a game you didn't even see.
111 Posted 25/09/2017 at 19:20:18
112 Posted 25/09/2017 at 19:23:02
Have I got this right? "Everyone" was in agreement with Koeman's comments about Niasse ... so "everyone" on here is a hypocrite.
And the Zombie football we are witnessing has nothing to do with Koeman's selections or brainless tactics, it's as a result of the negativity from "so-called supporters" who make you "ashamed".
Did it ever occur to you that you may have things a little arse about face ?
I'll tell you who really are being hypocritical. The "real" supporters who applaud the nasty comments Koeman made about Niasse after seeing him for all of 45 minutes, coming on here pleading for more time after nearly eighteen months of purposeless dross.
The defence of Koeman on here is coming apart at the seams.
113 Posted 25/09/2017 at 19:23:03
No hard feelings from my part though. You asked for a tip after I gave you a winner on Saturday.
Get on trap 5, first race at Wimbledon tomorrow. Dogs name is Schnorbitz.
114 Posted 25/09/2017 at 19:32:11
Made up. Well done, Oumar! COYB
115 Posted 25/09/2017 at 19:48:54
Koeman needs to play one of the following as a playmaker and leave the other two on the bench: Rooney, Sigurdsson or Klaassen. Don't put square pegs in round holes because of transfer fees, Koeman, my son!
116 Posted 25/09/2017 at 20:31:11
117 Posted 25/09/2017 at 21:02:02
Well sumarised, Brian; Koeman's ego is second only to his inability to swallow his pride. He should be kissing Niasse's arse but continues to treat him like a second-hand heroin needle. I am sick to death of the Dutch Ginger Tosspot's rants which rank as badly as the dross Martinez spouted but at the negative end of the spectrum.
119 Posted 25/09/2017 at 21:33:37
I also believe Koeman's formation this season, apart from not replacing Lukaku, is the reason we are struggling so badly. He persists with playing 3 No 10s in the one team.
When Niasse, Davies and Kenny came on, we looked a different team. Davies playing in his proper position, linked up superbly with Niasse, who partnered Calvert-Lewin, and Kenny showed Koeman what we all new, he should have started him long before now.
I'm waiting to see what team he starts next Sunday?
120 Posted 25/09/2017 at 21:40:25
121 Posted 25/09/2017 at 21:59:45
122 Posted 25/09/2017 at 22:07:44
I'm still struggling to let the many failures of the transfer window go...
123 Posted 25/09/2017 at 22:12:01
124 Posted 25/09/2017 at 22:17:58
You represent the poison that will always hold this club back; your attacks are personal and tunnel-visioned.
James (#120), you get it; I think the silent majority all get it – at this club, we don't have a noisy minority – we have a raging minority. COYB
125 Posted 25/09/2017 at 22:44:09
The football over the last 18 months has lacked forward momentum and pace. Many players will choose a sideways pass rather than open themselves up to the risk of losing the ball with a forward pass or run. These are player management and confidence problems to which Koeman needs to find a solution.
However, despite these problems, we finished 7th and qualified for Europe. It would seem therefore reasonable, with a new influx of players and developing youngsters, to give Koeman a while longer.
Also, many supporters feel uncomfortable with others who, in a too quick and scathing way, dismiss Everton players as crap, eg, Barkley, Deulofeu, McCarthy, Jagielka, Lukaku, Barry under Martinez and now the new knee-jerk 'crap labels' against Martina, Williams, Rooney, Sandro, Schneiderlin and the just trending Sigurdsson.
A depressing lack of realism, objectivity and perspective as one wallow in turgid negativity is replaced by another.
126 Posted 25/09/2017 at 22:47:27
"Koeman, bizarrely, tried to rewrite history after the game. Everton's manager insisted he had never closed the door on Niasse, how he 'never had a problem with him' and that stories of him not having a first team locker at Finch Farm last season was untrue.
"But if that was the case, how does the following get explained? Niasse has been so far out of the picture that his locker remains in the Under-23 dressing room and Koeman left him out of Everton's Europa League squad."
127 Posted 25/09/2017 at 22:58:03
Don't forget the fact he was the only player that they didn't bother fitting for a suit on match days.
128 Posted 25/09/2017 at 23:00:28
129 Posted 25/09/2017 at 23:11:17
They still lack the zip and sharp passing that is needed against 9 men defences but Tom Davies has something which says he should start ahead of Klaassen for the next few games.
130 Posted 25/09/2017 at 23:15:04
131 Posted 26/09/2017 at 00:58:47
132 Posted 26/09/2017 at 01:46:49
Don't get me wrong I would love him to continue scoring whilst we win matches but I do think many on here are jumping on this story to bash Koeman.
I still think it's the club that lacks the real ambition we need to show and they are more than happy for us to argue amongst ourselves whilst we win fuck all and survive in the Premier League.
133 Posted 26/09/2017 at 04:08:23
Please try to think about what you are saying. The "91.2% of us" is a ridiculous figure you have quite obviously plucked from the sky.
It would be far more accurate to say 91.2% didn't register a comment. There is no revisionism going on here. Most people, if they're are honest, hadn't seen enough of Niasse to make a balanced judgement.
Let me have one more attempt to explain this to you as you seem to be having trouble grasping it... Many people were disgusted at the way Koeman treated Niasse. His comments (not for the first time) were downright nasty. Totally unnecessary and I clearly recall people coming on here, calling up phone-ins and expressing their disgust in the alehouses.
This (now listen to this bit) is not about Niasse's ability. It's still too early for anybody to make a sound judgement on that. Its about human dignity... while Koeman continues to demonstrate a rare degree of crass buffoonery. Niasse has simply kept a dignified silence.
The outpouring of joy you are witnessing throughout Evertonia (to which you are clearly taking exception) is because the guy showing all the class, the real Evertonian is delivering.
We don't know if he can sustain this form but we are loving the moment. Your attempts to berate the fans for demonstrating their affection of a guy who was prepared to buy a ticket will fall on deaf ears.
Your attempts to blame fans on the terrace for the turgid football we endure are as daft as the 91.2% you plucked from the air. There is one reason the people you label "so-called fans" are gloomy... and you are trying desperately hard to defend him.
Acceptance of mediocrity is what holds this club back. It's like the flu. Totally debilitating and a bastard to get rid of.
134 Posted 26/09/2017 at 04:43:50
Are players really choosing to pass sideways? Or are we set up in a way that they don't have options in front of them.
We play most games with eight players on the pitch who's primary function is to stop the opposition. Two others will be expected to withdraw behind the ball every time the opposition get it.
Could the lack of confidence you speak about be a consequence of players having the certain knowledge that there is no "out" ball and that by playing the ball forward they are simply surrendering possession ?
Also; This criticism of players that upsets you so ? Are you suggesting that a certain section are responsible for all of the criticism all of the time?
People have all sorts of different opinions about players. One man's world beater is another man's carthorse. I have never met a supporter who hasn't been critical of one player or another – it's called opinion and without it, websites like this couldn't survive, The alehouses on County Road, would not survive. Without opinion, football itself would not survive
135 Posted 26/09/2017 at 06:20:03
However, in this case all I have done is report what the national press are saying about Koeman's treatment of Niasse, which seems pretty much in line with the majority of posters on this thread.
Thank you to Joe Edwards (#117), and others who totally 'get it.'
After supporting this great club for 59 of my years on this planet, I have never before seen a player treated the, way Koeman has treated Niasse and hope never to see an Everton manager treat one of our players like it again.
You are correct in your assumption that I don't like Koeman, more so since he has tried to re-write the history of his treatment of the lad.
I find Koeman too be a classless bully, a poor man-manager, and a man without the humility to even admit that maybe, just maybe, he has made a mistake or two, and not just in regards of Niasse.
No matter what his abilities were at the time, no way did he deserve the amount of public humiliation lumped upon him by Koeman.
That was the simple point of my post. If you think I should be able to say something positive about Koeman, then yes, he brought Niasse and Davies on when he was staring another defeat in the face. Oh yes, and he wears some pretty smart suits!
136 Posted 26/09/2017 at 06:27:50
Berating the manager reflects his performance in several key aspects. The ethos of supporting the team remains. Poor attempt at coupling.
137 Posted 26/09/2017 at 07:19:57
I see what you did with the 91.2% post, most would. Not everyone grasped it though.
138 Posted 26/09/2017 at 07:19:59
As a professional author, I hope you don't mind if I ask you to hit the [Enter] key twice, instead of once, between paragraphs?
Your posts are usually a few paragraphs in length, skillfully written, of course; this would help to break up the text a bit, and make it a little easier to read on-screen.
139 Posted 26/09/2017 at 07:41:38
First Steve said "everybody". Then he said 91.2% of "us".
Either way, he was speaking on behalf of an awful lot of Evertonians.
140 Posted 26/09/2017 at 07:59:41
141 Posted 26/09/2017 at 08:04:56
142 Posted 26/09/2017 at 08:39:36
The guy who signed him didn't play him. Koeman, as he has stated recently, didn't want him as he had other players and wanted to sell him. He couldn't understand why a player who wasn't going to make the squad would want to stay. He did well at Hull, without really tearing up any trees. Garth Crooks recently noted how he looks a better player than he did at Hull.
His attitude is great. He has done all the right things and got a break because the club didn't get the players they wanted. Great stuff, thanks lad for believing you could make it and putting the effort in to get there, but why do we have to make out as if Koeman was wrong?
It's hardly as if he has scored 15 goals yet! Before in his few performances he didn't stand out as being a great player. Bar Palace, no club has come in for him. Perhaps we can accept that rather than being an error by the manager, this is a great story of how a player turned it all around? And how sweet it must be for him given the circumstances
143 Posted 26/09/2017 at 08:47:57
You should put a net on the top of your head to catch all the stuff that is going completely over it. But thanks for taking the time, and having the patience to tell me where I am going wrong.
As Bob Dylan said "You're right from your side, I'm right from mine". Differing opinions are good and I'm glad I exasperate you, I know you speak from your heart (not your brain!).
144 Posted 26/09/2017 at 09:17:04
However, I think Niasse has made a strong hint that his improvement is due to his time in the U23s and I think you only needed to see Duncan's reaction to his goal, to realise that the greater influence on his improvement has been David Unsworth, Duncan Ferguson and the U23 squad team mates.
I honestly believe that Koeman can be the manager we want, but I also believe that he is going to have to change his footballing philosophy in order to achieve that.
Whether he can or not, I don't know.
145 Posted 26/09/2017 at 09:50:02
146 Posted 26/09/2017 at 12:20:02
The reason the Man Utd class of '92 worked so well was because they had grown up together and understood the strengths of each others' game. There's nothing wrong with that and, if anything, everything right with it.
It's not the pieces of the puzzle Koeman wanted but it's the strongest and biggest part he has.
147 Posted 26/09/2017 at 12:47:54
I wonder though, apart from Koeman's stubbornness, is there any pressure from within the Club, to the effect, "We have sanctioned these enormous fees for players, at your recommendation (Koeman) therefore we expect you to play them."
148 Posted 26/09/2017 at 12:56:58
I'd like to see some of the fringe players given a shot. Does that mean resting the likes of Calvert-Lewin who is probably our first-pick striker at the moment?
I would like to see him and Lookman play together as I think they represent the future. Something like this perhaps:
Kenny Holgate Jagielka (if fit) Martina
Davies Schneiderlin Klaassen
Lookman Calvert-Lewin Sandro
149 Posted 26/09/2017 at 13:31:15
"...too be a classless bully..." and "...no way dud..." – Very poor for an author. Must try harder.
And that error was missed by Michael (#138), who is one of the editors on here.
Almost as bad as The Liverpool Echo or The Scum.
(Don't bother to thank me.)
Anyway, let's hope Niasse can continue to prove his point on the pitch and not give Koeman any cause for doubt. This is his opportunity to shine given our options up front. He did appear to be absolutely chuffed to score which was great to watch.
150 Posted 26/09/2017 at 13:48:22
Saying that, I hope to be proved 100% wrong. It happened, once.
151 Posted 26/09/2017 at 14:23:00
In a set up with a Director of Football such as Everton's is that the Head Coach states a requirement and not a recommendation. The whole idea is that the Head coach coaches the players he has and the purchasing of those players is an independent function.
He would certainly have no say in what was paid for the player so in this case I think your blame of him is wide of the mark. That isn't to say that he doesn't have input only that he isn't responsible or accountable.
152 Posted 26/09/2017 at 14:27:57
I know he scored against Man Utd and Liverpool last season, and also saved Koeman's blushes on Saturday by scoring a real cracker and a poachers goal, but like you I still have my misgivings. Like you as well I hope he proves me totally wrong.
I'll cheer and clap him in every game he plays anyway.
153 Posted 26/09/2017 at 14:48:59
If he's limited but tries his heart out and shows a little pace while doing so then I think that will probably satisfy me until January, when the board, Koeman and Walsh can hopefully rectify the massive failings of the last window.
154 Posted 26/09/2017 at 14:58:17
Since very few players (if none at all) at the moment can get into attacking positions and score goals, as many as Everton would need to avoid relegation.
It was because of Lukaku's goals, Everton were not relegated in the past, because then, like now, Everton don't have alternative goal scorers. The last scoring midfield player was Fellaini, and that was 5 seasons ago.
155 Posted 26/09/2017 at 15:54:01
You make a good point about team set-up and selection being a factor in the positive character of a team but missed the main point that the responsibility and accountability for the problems are Koeman's and that he needs a little more time to find solutions.
You have invented a character in your head who is 'upset with player criticism so' in order then to go on a bizarre polemic about the consequences of the character not accepting different opinions the annihilation of social media, the annihilation of alehouses and football itself!
To repeat fans can contribute to critical environment in which players play and this has the potential to effect players in a negative way. Under Martinez and now Koeman, it is banal that groups of players are so quickly and scathingly labelled crap.
Then again, we would be deprived of the glorious irony of the current situation with Niasse. Hope he scores next time.
156 Posted 26/09/2017 at 16:30:48
157 Posted 26/09/2017 at 16:32:01
I include myself in this category but is Niasse really as good as he appeared to be at the weekend? He's certainly better than I'd given him credit for (humble pie digested) but could he still turn out to be a poor player?
I love Tom Davies's skill, determination and energy but you can't ignore either that he was anonymous in many games last season - particularly away from home.
I'd love Kenny to establish himself in the right back position but how good is he? I certainly don't know yet. The quality of his crossing at the weekend was certainly better than Martina's but he did still manage to look a bit shaky when attacked in the full back position.
Holgate looks a fine prospect but also looked a bit raw at times in his natural centre-back position.
So, without absolving Koeman, who seems to be making a pigs ear of most things, I can perhaps understand why there is still uncertainty about the best starting XI. Of course, this doesn't excuse him from triplicating the No 10s, playing with Schneiderlin and Gana who are too similar and playing players out of position but it could explain why he is still unconvinced about the best side to start a game. I certainly wouldn't be too sure of it apart from Pickford in goal.
Until certain players start making a position their own beyond any reasonable doubt, which means achieving a level of consistency and which may take a considerable amount of time given the large influx of newcomers, don't expect things to necessarily improve rapidly. Keeping Niasse, Davies and Kenny in for the next game is certainly justifiable but won't necessarily fix the underlying problems.
158 Posted 26/09/2017 at 16:55:21
In mitigation, it can be tricky maintaining 100% accuracy with my big fingers on this tiny phone keyboard. I will however plead guilty and go and spend an hour on the naughty step.
159 Posted 26/09/2017 at 17:01:43
160 Posted 26/09/2017 at 17:27:16
Obviously in your mind, Koeman has been at the pinnacle of his game, yet may I remind you we were in the bottom three, down a goal and out of choices before he put Niasse on.
My unmitigated tirade against all things Koeman? For your information I am totally against the majority of decisions he has taken, his man-management and team set up. But it's not personal; indeed, if you read some of my posts on the subject I have not blamed him for no strikers signed but his alienation of what we have and have called for the return of Mirallas, Lookman, Niasse and Barkley as they give us better options than playing the way we are.
I don't talk for you,thank god, or do I agree with your views but I doubt they are in the majority and even if they were it would not prevent me from expressing my view without the malicious intent in the use of capital letters!
Despite the way he has been treated, the good grace of the man is refreshing, circumstances change and he is now playing because of the lack of other striking options and because the way we have been set up hasn't worked. That's Koeman's view by the way. We ran out of time and Koeman has as well.
161 Posted 26/09/2017 at 17:52:40
That's in your opinion, of course, Christie.
162 Posted 26/09/2017 at 18:15:31
In his first seven appearances he was absolutely woeful, as bad as I've witnessed. In one game I remember him finally touching the ball after about 20 minutes to ironic cheers from the ground.
I certainly don't remember many saying we shouldn't loan him to Hull or not sell him on deadline day.
It turns out maybe he's not as bad as he looked, he certainly has shown some admirable perseverance; however if I still had a significant chunk of a lucrative contract still remaining, I might not be in a rush to go somewhere else.
I still suspect he won't be good enough in the long run.
164 Posted 26/09/2017 at 18:56:38
The fact Niasse looked gash, in what amounted to a grand total of 152 minutes of game time, meant such treatment was merited, then?
Sandro must really be shitting himself right about now, if that's the case.
It was never Niasse being sent out on loan, or nearly being sold on deadline day, that people objected to, but rather the unnecessary public demeaning and subsequent ostracising of the player as Koeman sought to pummel him into submission and a swift exit.
165 Posted 26/09/2017 at 19:19:34
Don't kid yourself, pal. Your attacks were too low to go over anybody's head. I just don't know who you think you are?
Who are you to criticise the matchgoer who has paid his hard earned and blame him for the dire shite served up by the guy you are falling over yourself to defend.
These guys who refuse to accept this shite are our only hope. People like you will accept and apologise for mediocrity and will only ever get what you deserve. You betray those calling for better, you are the enemy of ambition.
You claim you have supported this club for 50 years... so how come you don't know it? The Evertonians the people you refer to as "so called fans" have always been fair and supported the club, but they have never been shy in declaring shite when they see it... that's where you differ
You accuse me of thinking with my heart. I accuse you of not thinking at all. Your attacks on the symptom as opposed to the cause simply exposes your inability to see what's staring you in the face. Your ridiculous claims on behalf of "everyone" clearly demonstrates you don't understand how diverse opinion can be.
I'll let you into a little secret. There is not just two groups of people with two sets of beliefs that they stick to at all costs. There are hundreds of thousands with differing opinions about every single topic, but they will almost certainly be united in one belief. I'll wager that at least 91.2% fucking hate the zombie football you are apologising for.
When Koeman fucks off into the sunset with his saddle bags bulging, having taken this club for a proper ride, the "so-called fans" who make you so "ashamed" will still be here and they will still be parting with their hard earned to support the club they love... Remember, if you feel that ashamed, you can always go with him.
166 Posted 26/09/2017 at 19:23:29
At the moment the best team is not certain to many of us. It is Koeman's job to find it soon and with a more positive set up. I agree that Lookman and Calvert-Lewin need some playing time together.
167 Posted 26/09/2017 at 19:27:45
Nicely put; have a look at all my posts I've never once praised Koeman. All I ever focus on is the negativity of fans like you.
How do you expect our players to produce under the worst home atmosphere in the Premier League?
Koeman disappoints me constantly but I still support the 11 shirts on the pitch.
I don't claim to be anyone, I just state my honest opinion, the 91.2% was an obvious joke that you missed as you were too busy attacking me probably just like you attack our players at approx 3:02pm on a Saturday afternoon.
168 Posted 26/09/2017 at 19:35:35
Also, like the farming community there is plenty of fresh steaming poo on it to, that includes my own wayward crazed drivel!
Maybe a fellow TWbbr can help? I was told, read, heard that Niasse was only ‘re-integrated' into the first team squad at the behest of the board to stop the player's value from being pissed up a wall somewhere, a bit like Barkley.
Is this true or did Ron ‘not for turning' Koeman ask for our Sengalese saviour* to pop back and have a kick about with the big lads off his own back?
Sounds more likely the board said "Ron, here's your centre-forward get on with it, lad." But i'd love to know.
*other saviours are available
169 Posted 26/09/2017 at 19:42:14
170 Posted 26/09/2017 at 19:42:58
A shame you don't show the same principle towards season ticket holders you accuse of not going to the game. Double standards I suggest.
171 Posted 26/09/2017 at 19:51:35
Through the cross pollination of various threads, podcasts, articles and social media, the guesses become whispers, then conspiracies eventually which become the truth!
Maybe Niasse is the 2nd coming?!
172 Posted 26/09/2017 at 20:01:27
173 Posted 26/09/2017 at 20:06:20
174 Posted 26/09/2017 at 20:11:00
Brexit needs you. A decent, empathetic yet diplomatic relationship builder. I will forward link to Government!
175 Posted 26/09/2017 at 20:11:45
176 Posted 26/09/2017 at 20:18:50
If so, what game was it during?
177 Posted 26/09/2017 at 20:19:30
So my point is simply about factual incorrectness, and I can't see why you would think it pompous.
178 Posted 26/09/2017 at 20:23:31
"acceptance of mediocrity is what holds this club back".
Who the fuck is accepting mediocrity? Name them. How should I express my unacceptance of mediocrity. Should I hire a plane with a banner? Should I walk out of a game (not an option, as I can no longer afford to travel over). Should I start an online petition? You know as well as me how utterly shite that option is.
So, what do we do? Let's hear your thoughts on how to get rid of Koeman. I defend him because he is our man and we are stuck with him.
Honest to God, Darren, I get it, I am as fucking frustrated as you but what do we do?
179 Posted 26/09/2017 at 20:32:54
Completely off topic!
Brian, I have just written a book, about 165,000 words long, just proofreading it myself, I am finding the publication to be a minefield with many places wanting you to part with a lot of money, especially given the size of the manuscript. Any advice? I am thinking of self-publishing initially! It's a travel book based on my experiences abroad during an 8-year period!
Back on topic! Niasse has looked okay for a while, both at Hull, in the U23s and internationally from what I can gather. He brings something different to the team and Calvert-Lewin certainly looked better with him alongside him. plus he seems to have a good understanding with Davies; partnerships like that on the pitch cannot be underestimated!
180 Posted 26/09/2017 at 20:37:15
You accept mediocrity just the same as any other fan because that is what you are. You have no role in the club, no right to demand from the club and no influence whatsoever in how the club is run other than buying or not buying the product that they sell.
You accept mediocrity worse than most fans because you have no positive viewpoint just a cracked record. Most of us have a much broader viewpoint concerning what is happening, what could happen and how this may be brought about.
Would you have fired Kendall in 1982-83 after dreadful performances when funnily enough we finished 7th which then was a real disgrace? Please answer this question.
181 Posted 26/09/2017 at 20:37:45
You've done it again! Concentrate, Brian. Better readers, Brian... better readers.
182 Posted 26/09/2017 at 20:38:47
183 Posted 26/09/2017 at 20:43:03
My knowledge is just from the brutal but brill South African on my journalism training years ago. Week 1. You can never submit your own copy.
184 Posted 26/09/2017 at 20:47:16
Yet another fabrication. You will make anything up to try to prove your point. Pack it in please.
185 Posted 26/09/2017 at 20:49:41
I wonder if this is a reflection of the general "health" of the club and the football we watch?
186 Posted 26/09/2017 at 21:04:45
Thanks mate, I am finding out a lot about the industry very quickly. I am an English teacher by trade, so my proofreading skills aren't bad, but given the size of the document mistakes will be made! As for editing, yes it is a complete different skill set altogether!
Apologies to everyone for slightly hijacking the discussion! Sorry!
188 Posted 26/09/2017 at 21:21:32
You are a prime example of an acceptor of mediocrity. Somebody who supports, apologise and excuses it. A card carrying Kenwright fan who will defend him to the death. A man who has completely blinded himself to what is patently obvious to so many other people. You're like an infatuated schoolgirl, screaming the house down every time somebody tells a home truth about your luvvie chairman.
Wanna another prime example ? look no further that post 25.
Here's a guy who is cannot bear criticism of the manager, such is his determination to accept this mediocrity, he will attack anybody who dares voice discontent. he will round on very people who are making their voices heard. those who will not accept mediocrity.
You say I have a simplistic view of the game? You need to listen to yourself, mate. You insist on trying to tell everybody that the people managing this club have got different titles to their official ones... different remits. There are no lengths to which you wont go in your ridiculous mission to try to convince people that Koeman has nothing to do with the signing of players.
You say I lay the blame on one person for our shite football. Well at least you got that right. Wanna know how I arrived at this conclusion?
I took all the playing staff into consideration; I realised how many have come and gone. Why so many skillful players have either left or want to leave. Then, when asking myself why we are still the ugliest team in the Premier League it came to me. The common denominator.
You say I cant do anything. You are wrong. I'm doing it. I will keep voicing my disapproval. I will be part of a growing number of people who will not accept what you so readily embrace. The longer we are fed zombie football the louder our voice will become. the louder our voice gets the more nervous Moshiri will get.
Fans have been pressurising chairman to sack incompetent mangers since professional football began. It may take a while, but Koeman will be one of them. You'll see.>
189 Posted 26/09/2017 at 21:26:24
Before you nip off to the factory, can you answer my question at #184 please.
Only fair if you have made a false accusation. If it's not me you were alluding to, fair enough.
190 Posted 26/09/2017 at 21:28:57
The Kendall situation is a good similarity. Koeman will ultimately be held accountable but, with the influx of new and developing players, he needs more time. The saying of such is not an acceptance of poor performances but a reasoned expectation that things will change.
191 Posted 26/09/2017 at 21:33:03
I reckon the poster at 25 was on the ball. Throughout his thread, no defence of Koeman – just a constant disappointment at the lack of support for players on the pitch from the crowd.
He makes some consistent points throughout his posts and at no time claims to be a Koeman fan.
Read all his posts again, it's a damn good read!!!
192 Posted 26/09/2017 at 21:34:41
Publish chapter by chapter online. If it is any good, it will see the light of day.
You need luck as well as talent. I have never written a book but I have represented some who have, and I have seen some shite sold and some good stuff not.
If anyone can contact me with the "Kenwright Story", the unauthorized biography, I will guarantee you publication.
193 Posted 26/09/2017 at 21:34:42
Publish chapter by chapter online. If it is any good it will see the light of day. You need luck as well as talent. I have never written a book but I have represented some who have, and I have seen some shite sold and some good stuff not.
If anyone can contact me with the "Kenwright Story", the unauthorized biography,,I will.guarantee you publication.
194 Posted 26/09/2017 at 21:35:54
195 Posted 26/09/2017 at 21:44:33
There is a world of difference between the two situations. One manager loved the club and although results were not going his way, he was determined to play the game properly and his players believed in him. passion flair and adventure.
The other was the most negative manager in our history. Made Moyes look like Kevin Keegan. a man who simply came for the money. a man who still refers to us as 'Everton'. A man who has taken away all pride in the way we play the game.
A typical Masonic post, desperately trying to compare this buffoon with an all time Everton great. Hang your head fella.
196 Posted 26/09/2017 at 21:50:51
197 Posted 26/09/2017 at 21:53:15
Thanks mate. Those that contacted me the quickest were indeed the ones who wanted me to part with considerable amounts of cash, which I didn't!
The online way seems to be the most sensible to break into the industry and chapter by chapter seems fair play!
Again, soz folks!
My next effort, Niasse A Meandering Road!
198 Posted 26/09/2017 at 21:55:36
Love of the club is irrelevant.
199 Posted 26/09/2017 at 21:58:11
200 Posted 26/09/2017 at 21:58:41
I would be interested to know what the matchday atmosphere is like toward Koeman. Now that is what will remove him, if an when. Not us keyboard pundits.
201 Posted 26/09/2017 at 22:06:54
You asked a question; I answered it. I'm not interested in whether you believe me or not.
Yes Andy, I believe that too. It will be the match goers who make Moshiri nervous enough call the taxi.
202 Posted 26/09/2017 at 22:10:51
203 Posted 26/09/2017 at 22:12:02
204 Posted 26/09/2017 at 22:19:49
"What about Kendall, would you want him sacked?" Irrelevant. The two have nothing in common in how they managed the team, their background with the team, the way they had the team play, and the state of the club in present day.
Koeman has been manager for nearly one and a half years. During that time, the style of football has gone backward. The level and quality of play, regardless of opponent, whether it is United and Spurs or Split, Stoke and Bournemouth has been woeful.
Koeman has repeatedly had issues with man management. Not just here, but at his other clubs. He's not the only manager to do this. But the likes of Conte and Mourinho win every trophy under the sun. Koeman, not so much. His public utterances about Barkley, Niasse, and Mirallas during his time here have been a bit of a trend.
He sent Deulofeu out when we absolutely could have used him. He absolutely refuses to put players in their natural positions. People try to give him a pass for setting up defensively against the "big clubs" but ignore the fact that he does the same damn thing against Bournemouth at home.
So I don't give two shits about who would have said what about Kendall. What I care about is the God awful football being served up at Everton under this manager and the fact that we struggled to even get a shot on goal for nearly a damn month.
I care about the fact that he seems to have a real problem with attacking players that are patently attack first in favor of defensive lineups.
I care about the fact that Schneiderlin seems to be immune from his wrath but Barkley and Mirallas will be dropped in a heartbeat.
And I care about the patently obvious fact that he wanted to bring in a former player in Martina, a third choice right-back at Southampton, and is playing him over better options at the club in both the youth team or by adjusting to a 3 at the back and using an actual attacking wing back similar to what Conte did with Victor Moses.
205 Posted 26/09/2017 at 22:24:52
Steve, "The "91.2% of us" is a ridiculous figure you have quite obviously plucked from the sky."
Okay, you've made known your opinion that (allegedly) invented stats are risible, but then in your post at #165 what do we see you saying in further response to him? We see this:
Steve, "Don't kid yourself pal. Your attacks were too low to go over anybody's head. I just don't know who you think you are?"
So for you your own rules don't apply. Or perhaps you can state how you knowhis views were too low to go over anyone's head? Attacking as you do in this way denigrates the personalities of those who are of an opinion not exactly in accordance with your one, by now monumentally boring, point of view.
You do indeed have double standards, as stated above, particularly exemplified for me by your previous denigration of Martin Mason who you lambasted for having allegedly stated he'd have accepted a defeat had it led to the dismissal of Martinez. I was staggered to then read you stating that providing our team played well you'd accept defeat too!
Darren, as said, you have but one opinion on who you chiefly blame for the woes you ascribe to our club, repeated ad nauseam.
For the record I'm certain every TW'er knows what your opinion is too, but I've no proof!
206 Posted 26/09/2017 at 22:26:46
207 Posted 27/09/2017 at 01:12:23
Once the editor and author have agreed on what is by then an almost finished manuscript, it then goes to the proof reader who gives it another once over, again correcting errors in spelling, grammar, formatting etc.
So it's wise to know a little about the industry and how it works, and the job titles of those involved in the publishing industry before sending me to the naughty step again... but thanks for trying to keep me on the straight and narrow. I have a superb beta reader in Liverpool, but if ever you fancy a go... LOL 😁
208 Posted 27/09/2017 at 01:29:01
209 Posted 27/09/2017 at 01:59:30
You got in all the pertinent issues with Koeman there, and I agree wholeheartedly.
I posted elsewhere that Koeman described the later attacking play that saved us versus Bournemouth, as "...more direct than we usually play". A very indicative statement, the only such thing he's ever said that I'm aware.
This guy will ruin this team further if allowed. He'll not rest to get Barkley out and maybe others, and will make other disappointing, unnecessary signings.
What we saw later on in Saturday's game was an all-too-rare snapshot of how things could be for much more of the time, as an ethos, with a manager prepared to build a team as a pacier, attacking force. Koeman is not that manager.
210 Posted 27/09/2017 at 03:37:09
'Obviously in your mind, Koeman has been at the pinnacle of his game'.
LOL, Christine you're funny. Again, talking on behalf of others. Misrepresenting the people whose mouths you put words in.
It's either black or white for you, isn't it? No shades of grey. You can't resist it, can you? 'The pinnacle of his game'!!!
The many Evertonians I mix with know exactly my views on Koeman. My reply was to your 'spokeswoman of the masses' rubbish. ToffeeWeb, because of tirade-fumed folks like you, is not representative of the many many Evertonians I know. Each one of those fools is in my opinion claiming that faultless Koeman is at 'the pinnacle of his game'.
211 Posted 27/09/2017 at 06:18:07
I had sent my first manuscript to about twenty UK publishers and agents without success. I was then advised by a friend to try American and other international publishers using the internet.
I did and was amazed to be accepted by a Canadian publisher that went on to publish my first four novels.
Over the years I have progressed until I now have a first class publisher in Finland, and fourteen Amazon best sellers to my name.
Traditional publishing is by far the best route for a full time author, as the publisher covers all the costs of publishing, editing promotion and marketing etc. (That's not to say the author can't do some promotion of their work too, as I do quite a bit myself.)
With self-publishing you are left to pay all the costs yourself and will probably end up with a loft or cellar full of unsold books, which may take years to shift. The publishing world tends to look down on self published or vanity published books, somehow not accepting them as 'legitimately' published, as anyone can pay to have a book produced whereas in the traditional publishing world, only those who's books have been screened and accepted by a published willing to invest in the book, see their work in print.
I'd be happy to give you further advice but am not sure how to get in touch without putting my personal email address on the site.
I do wish you success and if I can be of help, I'd be only too happy. Perhaps, with my permission, Lyndon or one of the site admins could privately pass my email address to you.
212 Posted 27/09/2017 at 06:27:35
213 Posted 27/09/2017 at 06:43:01
Darren does it quite often. To listen to him now about Koeman, you would find it hard to believe the comment he made last season that Koeman would be the man to restore us to our former glory.
214 Posted 27/09/2017 at 07:23:06
Are you seriously suggesting there is not a clear and distinct difference between someone stating they can accept defeat as long as the team go out and give it a damn good go, and another saying they would be "happy" to watch their team lose repeatedly, if it resulted in the manager being given the heave-ho (as that is indeed what Martin said when Martinez was in charge, nothing 'alleged' about it)?
That's much more akin to deliberate distortion on your part, rather than 'double standards' from Darren.
"Double standards" would be something along the lines of... oh, I don't know... beginning a sentence by bleating about the 'denigration' of another's opinion, before finishing with a declaration that someone else is as boring as fuck.
215 Posted 27/09/2017 at 08:34:27
216 Posted 27/09/2017 at 09:21:54
In my case, Everton lost, Martinez was sacked, and no more serious outcome occurred. As such, I stand by what I said and would never criticise any fan who raised a similar opinion let alone express some kind of fake outrage about it.
217 Posted 27/09/2017 at 09:26:50
The question was, as we call for the sacking of Koeman now, would we, in hindsight, have sacked Kendall at the same time? Many were calling for his sacking but there wasn't the curse of social media then to provide a loud speaker.
218 Posted 27/09/2017 at 10:16:16
Of course Martin, a fan can be accepting of anything they choose. That's their look out.
However, as already stated in my last post, that's not exactly what you said, is it? You did not come on here and say you would begrudgingly accept a solitary defeat if it meant Martinez were to be given the shove. Instead, you claimed you would be "deliriously happy" to see Everton lose every single game until the end of the season, if it resulted in his sacking.
A completely different sentiment to saying you could stomach a tonking if the team at least tried, went out to attack or wiped their arse on the opposition mascots furry severed head in full view of the sodding kids.
In one, you're still very much wanting to see your team go out, give their best and entertain. You're still hoping for a victory, even though you would not react viciously if it fails to materialise, provided defeat is met in a verveful, vibrant manner.
In the other, you're actively hoping for the team you support to be handed their arse, game after game after game, readying a great big smile for when Everton get fucking beat, while everybody else streams out the ground gutted and/or worried sick (even the non-Evertonian manager you simply can't stand).
219 Posted 27/09/2017 at 10:59:28
Whatever I said, and I don't believe it is what or how you claim, it is my right to say or think it. I can't influence results by what I say but it's a fair cop, I'm guilty of unpure football thought. Luckily, this isn't a crime yet.
I'm sure that you understand the concept of figure of speech. If I said that I'd give my right arm for a win on Saturday, would you worry about me if we won?
220 Posted 27/09/2017 at 11:32:24
One is obviously an ages old idiom, the other an alien concept to most supporters.
My post wasn't meant as a pop at you. Rather, it was merely a means of taking umbrage with Don's 'desperate to prove a point' assertion that a supporter saying they would accept a defeat, provided their team went out to try and win, is no different to one saying they would be happy to see their team get beat... repeatedly... if it guaranteed someone losing their job as a result.
To me they are as different as night and day.
"I don't believe it is what or how you claim"
"I would gladly lose all our remaining games but one and be deliriously happy if I could guarantee seeing him being put on the dole".
If you're going to "stand by" a statement, probably best not to try and dust it down a bit to make it more presentable.
221 Posted 27/09/2017 at 12:13:50
You are a star, I will be in touch. I am tiptoeing through the minefield that is the publishing industry at the moment. There are many willing to lift me from the minefield, but they want a lot of money to do it.
Your help is much appreciated!
222 Posted 27/09/2017 at 12:46:14
Since my visit to Goodison for the Spurs game, I've been pondering over our current situation and come to the conclusion (based on my limited knowledge of the game) that the midfield of a team sets the style and tempo of play.
So using Darren's interesting analogy at #195 :-
Made Moyes look like Kevin Keegan.
I did a quick comparison of both managers' "main men" in midfield:
Arteta, Pienaar, Osman, Cahill and Fellaini
Schneiderlin, Sigurdsson, Klaassen, Gueye, and Vlasic
My conclusion is that Dour Dave's men had more football guile and attacking threat than Koeman's.
One conclusion I did draw from the Spurs game is that Rooney has the best football brain in our squad. I think he should be played in midfield with Tom Davies at the expense of Schneiderlin and Klaassen.
And no, I don't want Moyes back but he might make someone a good Director of Football.
223 Posted 27/09/2017 at 13:24:59
Silly me, I relied on Darren's comment re condemnation of Martin being correct. Darren cited "a semi-final", singular, not "every match". That's why I used the word "alleged" too, simply because I had no personal memory.
As for sort-of accepting "verveful, vibrant" defeat, rather than reacting as your pal Mr Hind does to anyone he deems to be in opposition to his one-track mantra, well, whatever floats your boat. Me, I want to see wins, end of.
Do you often find yourself humming, "I'm Forever Blowing Bubbles" by the way?
224 Posted 27/09/2017 at 14:27:03
The inference is that I wouldn't be happy under any other circumstance. At no point did I say that I wanted Everton to get beat.
225 Posted 27/09/2017 at 14:55:11
Not sure why you would say that.
TW has always been a platform for passionate debate and sometimes the divisions will last throughout the time the individual being debated is at the club.
As with Martinez. the divisions cease as soon as the person responsible for the divisions has gone. New divisions will then spring up and the merits and shortcomings of different players/managers will be debated.
I used to post regularly, but I tend to be an onlooker on the sidelines these days. I can honestly say in years of visiting these pages, I can only remember one occasion when condemnation of a single post was universal. It was the time you said you wanted us to lose the semi final to Manchester united.
226 Posted 27/09/2017 at 15:32:27
One was an Evertonian through and through, one refers to his club as "Everton" as if he's an outsider. I thought he stop doing that early September or late August when I read that he used the word "we" but soon after that it's "Everton" again.
Yes, I agree with Darren, if a manager tries "in the right way", if that's such a thing, but results don't follow, he deserves more patience than another manager who spent £150m-200m and plays four No 10s in his lineup.
I called for those at the live forum to flood the club's Twitter account after Josh King's goal. And I did that. I would continue to do that if I see tomorrow he's putting out another similar lineup. I will continue to do that until he's gone or he changes his way (unlikely).
227 Posted 27/09/2017 at 15:48:09
And there are a lot of vanity publishers masquerading as traditional publishers who will reel you in and you don't know they are going it till you get a big fat bill.
If I can give you any help or advice, I'll be only too happy to do so.
228 Posted 27/09/2017 at 15:48:51
Does this disqualify me as Evertonian?
229 Posted 27/09/2017 at 15:50:53
I watched Everton during the first couple of years of Howard Kendall and believe me they were just as awful as they are now. Also, Alex Ferguson was within a game of the sack after a similar initial period during which Manchester United were woeful.
It is surely completely illogical to call for Koeman's head immediately and yet not agree that both Kendall and Ferguson should have been sacked at identical points in their career. You can't use the excuse with hindsight that they both turned the situation around as it is possible that Koeman will do the same.
The time to judge Koeman is the end of the year or before if it becomes absolutely clear beyond any doubt that he's not going to achieve it.
230 Posted 27/09/2017 at 16:11:23
Also, can you erase any EFC related memories and take up lawn bowls. Thanks for your cooperation on this matter.
TBH, I have no idea what point John & Martin are trying to make, wish they would stop though.
231 Posted 27/09/2017 at 16:21:58
I admit that I did not watch football (not only Everton) in 1982-83, so I have no idea how bad it was.
But what about:
1. Publicly insulting players?
2. Stubbornly playing four No 10s?
3. Getting rid of players, either via loan or direct sale, when the positions they played at obviously could do with some cover?
The third one is up for debate, I know.
I think Koeman's problem is not only the performance of the team; it's also about his man- and match-management.
232 Posted 27/09/2017 at 16:25:15
Don't be so cruel.
233 Posted 27/09/2017 at 16:38:45
"The time to judge Koeman is the end of the year or before if it becomes absolutely clear beyond any doubt that he's not going to achieve it."
Do you really mean the end of the year (2017), ie, December? Or do you mean (as many lazily do) the end of the season (ie, May)?
And achieve what exactly?
234 Posted 27/09/2017 at 16:39:32
235 Posted 27/09/2017 at 16:42:17
He should be given until the end of the season. Obviously unless we are in the bottom half of the table after the transfer window. Then it would have to be looked at.
236 Posted 27/09/2017 at 16:47:38
237 Posted 27/09/2017 at 16:47:49
238 Posted 27/09/2017 at 16:57:18
But I digress. The difference is, Martin, the players were shite. We had the nucleus of the soon-to-be great side but, with all due respect, players like Mick Ferguson were nowhere near as good as the players Koeman has at his disposal, so in my view it's not quite the same.
Also, my memory may not be what it was but, even in the days of Joe Harper and Jim Pearson, I don't remember going 4 games with only 5 or so shots. We always went forward whereas now we seem to play almost relentlessly sideways or back.
But give him to the end of the season (and no more); I think he'll bring a striker in in January so let's see what he does with him.
239 Posted 27/09/2017 at 17:11:46
Sorry, can't be cruel, you have to stay as well. Cancelled the lawn bowls membership for you as well.
240 Posted 27/09/2017 at 17:20:54
Personally, I think he'll be given a lot longer – the full project – unless we get sucked in to an all-out relegation scrap. Only at that point would I expect Moshiri to act.
Laurie... shhh. It's supposed to be undetectable. Otherwise, they'll all want the same service!
241 Posted 27/09/2017 at 17:26:33
I think Kendall kept his job for two reasons. One, because of who he was. Two, because the board had the sense to see the quality of younger players he had bought and/or was bringing through.
If you're being objective, it's clear Koeman bought better players; it's also clear that he isn't getting the best out of them.
Interesting one for Moshiri. He's clearly gone for the big name manager, new stadium, "let's get top four" scenario. Does he go for the 'next Klopp' in Tuchel? Does he gamble on Unsworth and scrap his 'big name' fantasy? Does he go for Ancelotti next summer? Or does he hope that his man Koeman delivers?
I normally take Koeman's words with a pinch of salt. He is an inarticulate man with a limited grasp of English. But that statement "different to the way we normally play" registered with me. I wanted the interviewer to push him on that; did he mean we haven't been playing quickly enough, or we 'normally' play at his preferred pace?
If it's the former, let's change it from tomorrow. If it's the latter, I'm done with him.
242 Posted 27/09/2017 at 17:52:06
I'm hoping that the board see genuine promise and that Koeman is the man to take it forward with what is happening now just a bump in the road. I can dream that Niasse is a latter day Andy Gray, seen as washed up but still to have a key influence.
243 Posted 27/09/2017 at 17:52:11
Now we are talking , some common sense, constructive views , this thread has turned itself around a little.
Thank god after all that reactionary accusative nonsense from last night!!
Always allow others the latitude you would expect yourself. Numerous young players. Numerous new signings. Only the deluded and the short sighted would expect everything to knit together immediately.
244 Posted 27/09/2017 at 17:56:29
245 Posted 27/09/2017 at 18:21:51
246 Posted 27/09/2017 at 18:26:12
Everton have adopted a Director of Football model that makes managers far more dispensable than ever, especially you have the right Director of Football in charge, not sure we have buts thats for another day. Because if you have the right coach he should be able to reach the targets set given the resources of the club.
Moshiri sacked Martinez for finishing 11th. That must be the bar, well actually not finishing 7th minimum would be criminal, but I'm not the fella calling the shots.
‘Project' or not that doesn't mean accepting a shit show for 2 years & peaking at the end. There is a minimum to expect from Koeman and that's 7th, at least a quarter final in a cup competition, and something akin to attacking football, Everton being the 7th-best resourced team in the land.
Its mostly objective, measurable and realistic based on our squad, manager and clubs pedigree.
Anything less is failure, and for what is worth, Koeman should be working to those pressures and be reminded in a timely fashion should those objectives be at risk.
247 Posted 27/09/2017 at 18:37:21
Shame you do not understand sarcasm but if you want to take things out of context to have a pop at me personally, feel free because you have not addressed any of the points I made, regarding where we were in the league, our performances, Koeman's decisions, the fact that the media and commentators, fans on here and in the ground could see how poorly we are playing under Koeman's system.
But no;, have a personal dig at the messenger if you cannot dispute the facts. So let me ask you, are you happy with the way we set up and play? What exactly do you disagree with me about the way Koeman has handled players, his comments or tactics?
Tirade against Koeman? Give me a break, you don't know the meaning of the word, and I challenge you to specify exactly where and when I have conducted a tirade against the man. I do not think he should be in the job and I do not think he is a straight shooter.
That is no more, no less than many other posters on this site. I do not speak for you and I have never proclaimed that I did; you took a phrase out of context but that's okay, it was meant as a generalism not a specific, but of course you knew what I meant, you just needed a hammer to hit the nail..
I am not alone in my views but I do not for one moment assume a spokesperson role for anyone or anything. Go play tick with the buses...
248 Posted 27/09/2017 at 18:44:28
Yes I'm sure there's a post or two you can dig out to prove me wrong. To be fair he did look shite in his early appearances. Koeman's treatment of him after that was shockingly disrespectful I agree.
Maybe he was trying to stamp his authority and play the big man but he got it badly wrong. I stand by the comments about the negative atmosphere though, I find it embarrassing.
249 Posted 27/09/2017 at 18:52:04
As with most things, memory is very subjective when it comes to style of play, attacking intent etc. But whilst Howard's first season could be written off as a bedding-in period and his second season one of 'close but no cigar' territory the expectations from quite a few Evertonians at that time, was that his side would have more of an impact at the higher end of the table. Unfortunately, his team had a habit of missing too many chances and too many probable victories turned into draws or defeats.
The pressure was certainly on him and his team by Christmas 1983 and it did look as if his days were numbered as the fans decided to vote with their feet, at a time when they were the main income stream of the club.
Of course there were lucky breaks involved along the way but Kendall did have a philosophy and he didn't often transgress from that philosophy, showing that he was as hard-headed as other major managers, which eventually led to his and Everton FC's success.
But that success was based on having the right players playing the right way, have a look at the record books and see how many different players scored ten or more goals in the seasons that Kendall was in charge, prior to the 'magic' season of 1984-85.
Koeman's team, so far, doesn't appear to have any semblance of a pattern of play or any discernible style. It's either launch it as quickly as possible up the pitch or mess around with it in areas that don't often threaten the opposition.
It wasn't until the last quarter of last Saturday's match that I saw Koeman's Everton look as if they knew what they were doing and showed the necessary energy and drive to look as if they might win the game. It was probably an undeserved result overall; however, all those years ago, we may have had many undeserved results but it's what goes in the record books that counts.
Perhaps, if Koeman is to learn one thing from his Everton career so far, it is that hungry players are required within the team either en masse or at least a fair smattering of them. Those who have been at the club for a long period of time, haven't got that hunger to win as has been proved under different taskmasters and those that have arrived in more recent times, may, think that they have reached the pinnacle of their careers or have found a place to play football without the demands made on them at their previous clubs.
1983 and 2017 are world's apart in almost every way, and looking back and using it as a comparison to what is happening now isn't the most productive pastime.
Whichever Everton manager that manages to put a trophy in the Everton FC trophy room will be remembered forever in these parts and personally I don't care if that person is insular, outgoing, handsome, ugly, Dutch, Swedish, Chinese or any other nationality I just hope that I'm still around to witness it.
In the meantime a few more attacking displays from an Everton side that looks like a team, wouldn't go amiss with me and, I suspect, a few thousand other regular visitors to Goodison.
Koeman can address that issue in the upcoming fixtures and if he finds the right blend who knows where it may lead. If he doesn't find that blend then the baton will be handed to the next person charged with bringing Everton FC success it's fun this football lark isn't it?
250 Posted 27/09/2017 at 19:03:49
I'm really surprised that you were staggered when you read that I'd said "Providing we play well I would accept defeat" – especially as I didn't say it.
You do of course have an opportunity to put the post up and prove you were not lying in order to score a cheap point.
Its supremely ironic that somebody who has spent months apologising for the defeats AND the zombie football would think they could score a point on such an issue.
Go back and read what I actually said.
You are right about one thing; You certainly stood by what you said, even when you were repeatedly challenged about the semi final you were adamant you wanted us to lose. The outrage expressed by people on here wasn't not false, .nor was the disgust.
They are one of our bitterest rivals, it was a golden opportunity for the under 25's to get to see us in a cup final... but you thought it was more important to get rid of the manager.
Oh and please stop these idiotic comparisons between Koeman and Kendall. Kendall was put in charge when the money ran out. but the expectations were still great. He was operating on a shoe string so tight he was forced to play himself.
Liverpool were champions of Europe and were parading through the city waving trophy after trophy which put him under a pressure no previous Everton manager had experienced.
Koeman on the other hand came in when seventh was treated by some as an open top bus event. He was given one of the biggest war chest in world football to build his team and he is coming under no local pressure from the crowd across the park because the Red Shite have been. err, Shite... and, unlike under Kendall, there have been no signs. Just 18 months of the dread Zombie Football.
You're foolish comparison is an affront to the intelligence of every fan who lived through both eras.
251 Posted 27/09/2017 at 19:23:31
I lived and watched through both eras and stand by the comparison. In fact I would say that we were worse then. Until the turnaround after Oxford away, Kendall was the worst manager I'd ever seen at Everton based on style and results. He also produced a Championship winning side on the same budget that he produced mediocrity in his early years.
I completely stand by my acceptance of "lose a game to get rid of a crap manager". A minor trade off especially over a game we were going to lose anyway. I never said I wanted Everton to lose only that I'd accept it.
I would also say that it was far easier for an Everton manager to make mighty Everton a top side in 1983 than it is now so it puts Kendall 83 and Ferguson in an even worse light.
Biggest war chest in world football? Wasn't the net spend about zero this window just the same as Kendall's?
Come on Darren, you know you've lost it now. What are you going to do though, moan a bit more?
252 Posted 27/09/2017 at 19:37:11
253 Posted 27/09/2017 at 19:43:18
You betray the dream of every Evertonian by rejoicing in a semi-final defeat which broke hundreds of thousands of Evertonian hearts... because you wanted to be right. Yes, it is against the fan code, it's the against the unwritten one which everyone, but you seems to be aware of. The one that says "I want my team to win the cup".
Let me tell you something: most were on to Martinez long before you flip flopped and started you`re Robby out champagne, but they were prepared to put their personal feelings on the back burner. They wanted success for their beloved club. Not you; for you, it was all about you.
Your claims that there is a comparison between Koeman's situation and Kendall's doesn't mean I've lost it (that's only in your dreams); it simply means you have painted yourself into a dunces corner and are stubbornly refusing to wear the hat... perhaps when you've worked out which end to put your head in?
254 Posted 27/09/2017 at 19:47:52
Not right to celebrate us getting beaten in a semi-final, not right at all. To toast it with a bottle of bubbly makes it even worse. You should hang your head in shame.
255 Posted 27/09/2017 at 19:48:56
256 Posted 27/09/2017 at 19:49:25
Gents, you both make good points, but nobody is looking good at this point. I gave up having run-ins with folk on here, it's never worth it and nobody ever backs down you're gonna do yourselves a mischief at this rate!
257 Posted 27/09/2017 at 20:00:40
I have unconditional love for this club.
I have contempt for the chairman.
My feelings for the manager are well documented... but the day will never dawn when I want him to lose.
258 Posted 27/09/2017 at 20:02:37
259 Posted 27/09/2017 at 20:28:23
I honestly thought Everton's crowd was brilliant on Saturday, simply because they stayed with the team, even though the football was mostly being played in slow motion, which was exasperating to watch.
They stayed with the team but the volume was only raised once we started getting the ball forward a lot quicker and even started to play with just a little bit more purpose.
The last 3 seasons have been dreadful at Goodison: pedestrian football, and a team that lacks any real identity, so what do you really want the crowd to shout about?
260 Posted 27/09/2017 at 20:34:00
261 Posted 27/09/2017 at 20:36:38
262 Posted 27/09/2017 at 20:37:30
263 Posted 27/09/2017 at 20:38:15
264 Posted 27/09/2017 at 20:40:54
265 Posted 27/09/2017 at 20:41:55
If you ever wanted evidence that the "project" is currently going backward look no further than that. We had him under contract, 2 more years, and we sold him at the start of the window without the smallest bit of fight. Unbelievable.
266 Posted 27/09/2017 at 20:47:27
267 Posted 27/09/2017 at 20:53:16
268 Posted 27/09/2017 at 21:10:07
269 Posted 27/09/2017 at 21:26:21
270 Posted 27/09/2017 at 21:42:04
Darren & Martin, for the love of god, please stop!
271 Posted 27/09/2017 at 21:42:25
272 Posted 27/09/2017 at 21:44:39
273 Posted 27/09/2017 at 21:46:06
274 Posted 27/09/2017 at 21:47:00
275 Posted 27/09/2017 at 21:49:47
276 Posted 27/09/2017 at 22:15:51
So, regarding Niasse, if I just take me as an example, I certainly didn't call him shite, didn't call him good either, because there was really too little to go on. But I was surprised by Koeman's comments, and said so, even said I thought they were unprofessional, that he didn't really need to say what he said. I do recall others saying similar, but even if my recollection is not great, this all underlines the fact that not everyone said that Niasse was shite.
There's an inconsistency in what folks say if and only if it's the same folks saying one thing and then saying the opposite. Certainly bet everyone falls in this category.
So I have to protest at the idea that everyone said Niasse was shite, at least because I didn't say that, because I didn't know enough to say either way.
I started expressing concerns about Koeman almost a year ago, and those concerns have become greater as the evidence has accumulated since then. The latest situation with Niasse serves only to underline those concerns, in terms of Koeman's judgement and public utterings.
277 Posted 28/09/2017 at 00:30:22
Lukaku in Man Utd's team has only one prime job, to score. They have an array of players to do the work he ignores. We didn't, and perhaps don't yet have, enough such players.
His performance tonight pissed me off because for once, unlike for us at any time I can remember, he actually competed for a header to score. That tells me he was the self-absorbed user I always thought him to be last season, to the cost of our team's results, despite his goals.
278 Posted 28/09/2017 at 02:34:04
So you completely missed all those headed goals Lukaku scored for us? And you missed those through-balls and assists he provided? And you missed those goals he single-handedly created.
Please, give me a break. Don't try to recreate history now that you see what he does in a team set up to attack with quality in every position. He was a beast when he was with us and at his age he will only get better from here.
He competed for headers to score goals when with us. You just might be forgetting the fact that we spent most of the match passing it around the back four instead of getting forward and whipping in crosses.
You might also be forgetting the fact that he now has other players getting up in support instead of being isolated up top. Something that many of us tried to point out to no end.
So no, don't try to create a scenario where Lukaku couldn't give a shit when he was with us. In fact, he was very eager to get on the end of goals wherever and whenever the opportunity presented itself in order to impress clubs like Man Utd and managers like Mourinho.
Isn't it funny how those that seemed to be so prominent in saying how he must be shite because Mourinho sold him are now so silent as they watch Mourinho start him every match and watch him score in just about every match, home and away, domestic and in the Champions League.
We had a fucking star and we never built around him, as me and many others begged for us to do. He should have been the centerpiece of the Everton "project". Instead, we have fucking Niasse.
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