Ronald Koeman says that Davy Klaassen needs time to find his feet in the Premier League, insisting that he has no doubts about his compatriot's ability.
Klaassen arrived as a big-money signing over the summer when Everton splashed out almost £24m to bring him in from Ajax where he had just captained his team to the Europa League final.
The Dutch midfielder hasn't completed a full 90 minutes for the Blues since the away leg against Ruzomberok at the beginning of August, either because of injury or because he made way for an on-coming substitute and he was the one to make way in central midfield for Tom Davies against Bournemouth on Sunday.
That has led to increasing discussion over the wisdom of his acquisition by the club and his ability to either settle in England and/or function in a side boasting three “No.10s”.
“He needs time,” Koeman said in the Liverpool Echo, something he said should be afforded the academy graduates and other new imports like Sandro Ramirez. “He is okay. He is intelligent on the ball.
“I think he can improve in fitness and he can improve physically in battles in the midfield. That is what he needs to learn and improve, but that is normal.
“The Dutch league is not the Premier League and the boy gets time for that. It is all about the player himself.
“It is the same question for other young players and players like Sandro to keep quiet and keep patience,” added the Dutchman.
“[Klaassen] will come [good] because I don't have any doubts as to the quality of the player.”
Reader Comments (117)
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1 Posted 26/09/2017 at 22:38:34
2 Posted 26/09/2017 at 22:47:42
Oh yes, I forgot... Davvy is one of your signings; Niasse is not.
3 Posted 26/09/2017 at 22:59:39
I remember Pires at Arsenal being woeful for 6 months. Bergkamp also was called useless for a year.
More recently Firmino was very average when he first arrived (he is now pretty good albeit not great). No doubt there are countless examples.
So no judgement yet, hopefully he turns out a goodun. But, none of this means he should be in the team above Davies. Davies is class, possibly our best player. So Davies in the First 11 from now on, alongside Gueye and Sigurdsson.
Lookman/Vlasic, Lewin, Rooney/Sandro up top.
Sorted for ya.
4 Posted 26/09/2017 at 23:06:44
I really hope he does come good, and he was given a heroes welcome at the weekend when he returned to Ajax to pick an award up. So they must have seen a lot in him to do that.
Although I don't think Dutch football is as quick as the Premier League, he may adjust quicker than we think.
However, I don't think it helps when he is crammed in the same team with Sigurdsson and Rooney, and evidently little game plan or strategy.
5 Posted 26/09/2017 at 23:07:48
If you want to play him, make sure you've got Davies, Calvert-Lewin and another tougher guy Rooney, or Niasse for example in the front four with him. Bring him off the bench when we're two up with 25 to play and his weakness probably won't harm us.
We'll give him time, but right now you know we all know he looks unlikely to make it and he makes it harder for us to win.
6 Posted 26/09/2017 at 23:13:47
7 Posted 26/09/2017 at 23:20:56
8 Posted 26/09/2017 at 23:23:01
I was about to post similar remarks. It's been like having 10 men some days with him in the side. Koeman's insistence on playing him at the expense of Tom has been stubborn.
I hope he will come good but he does come from a league that is a shadow of what it was 20 years ago. I went to see an Alkmaar match last season and the standard was English League One.
Alright, Davy played for one of the better sides in that league but still, it's slower, less physical and you have space and time so that poor first touches or losing control isn't as punished.
With that in mind, he should be getting the game time drip fed to build his confidence and stamina.
9 Posted 26/09/2017 at 23:23:33
He's a great player, he just doesn't fit in with the rest. And that's Koeman's fault as he crafted this midfield.
10 Posted 26/09/2017 at 23:29:22
Not to mention Martinez telling us how much of a diamond Ross was but that's the same Martinez that signed Alcaraz & McGeady, and nobody has yet figured out why!
11 Posted 27/09/2017 at 00:24:42
12 Posted 27/09/2017 at 00:44:42
The problem with this kind of player is that you have to play to his strengths. Maybe we'll learn to do that, but right now it isn't happening. That said, I don't by any means think he's been playing badly so far.
Of course, I'll end this comment the way I pretty much end every comment on TW lately. How is any team going to work with three number 10s and no wide midfielder?
13 Posted 27/09/2017 at 01:05:16
Criticism is fine me, but why try and use the same stick to beat Koeman every time? Team played shit? Yeah, and he wrote Niasse off too. Trump could cause nuclear Armageddon? Yeah, but Koeman's treatment of Niasse is akin to a human rights crime.
Of course he is showing faith in a player he chose to sign.
14 Posted 27/09/2017 at 01:24:22
Without knowing the context, whether answering a question etc. Interesting that Koeman has had to speak and address the situation.
Excepting Rooney, none of his signings have come near Ross Barkley's level.
15 Posted 27/09/2017 at 01:25:39
16 Posted 27/09/2017 at 02:00:07
But we won't reap the rewards until we start functioning as a team. He's the kinda guy that would look like a Ballon d'Or contender at Barca, but wouldn't look special at Barnet.
17 Posted 27/09/2017 at 02:09:05
The biggest issue is acclimating to the Premier League while finding his niche on the team inconsistent playing time and getting shoehorned in with Rooney and Sigurdsson has made the transition that much more difficult for him.
18 Posted 27/09/2017 at 02:31:24
Bill, since we have diametrically opposed views on Barkley and Klaassen, I ask you, and not for argument, but in good faith, what have you seen that so indicates a notable football brain in Klaassen?
Btw, I could equally say that Klaassen clearly lacks the sort of pace, power and strength that Barkley has, which is largely what appears to so compromise him, in my opinion.
19 Posted 27/09/2017 at 03:42:24
In fact to be fair to Barkley, even though I stand by my criticism of him, at least when he was in the team, the gaping space in the link up play between our defenders and attacking players, was never so glaringly obvious. That is something I didn't think I would ever hear myself admit, but sadly performances have shown it to be true. The £70 million or so spent on Klaassen and Sigurdsson alone, could have brought one world class creative player to Goodison.
Some have been quick to criticise Rooney. Nobody said he was going to turn us around single-handedly, or show the pace of yesteryear, but what he brings to the team is a brain as sharp as ever. Yes, some of his passing goes astray, but I firmly believe that between him and Tom Davies we have two players with vision and imagination, capable of splitting even the tightest defences.
The shirts should be given to the players in form, its as simple as that. On the most recent evidence, that suggests to me a starting eleven in a 4-4-2 formation of:
Pickford, Kenny, Williams, Keane, Baines, Gueye, Davies, Rooney, Sigurdsson, Calvert-Lewin, Niasse.
I believe with this line-up, we could at least take the game to the opposition. Let them worry about us for a change!
To the Koeman critics, I say that this transformation will take time. Fans must be patient. History has shown that certain players who eventually became Everton legends, took time and many poor performances, from when they first arrived at the club, before their true talents materialised. Howard Kendall ( in both player and manager capacity), Neville Southall, Peter Reid, Adrian Heath, Dave Watson, to name but a few, come to mind and many other eventual 'stars' over the years, also took stick off the crowd for long periods to begin with.
In fact when Kendall first took charge his first signings were a right hopeless crew, Alan Biley, Mick Ferguson, Alan Ainscough, etc.etc. Thankfully they were shipped out almost as quickly as they arrived. Kendall then bought wisely and brought young players through the ranks.
Comparisons could be made, what with both players signing in the Autumn of their careers, to Andy Gray's contribution to the all conquering 80s side and potentially what Rooney's experience and undoubted talent, with the right players around him, could give us today. It's about balance, blend, effort and determination.
Certain players in this present team seem to be uncomfortable receiving the ball and terrified of making errors. A few good results could see a massive improvement in confidence and that can only be good for the team.
It could be that when everyone is fit, we will only need to make one or two new signings in January. It may well turn out, that we actually don't need to make any.
20 Posted 27/09/2017 at 03:55:33
Having said that, at this point, I would sell Schneiderlin and Besic and do everything to keep Barkley and (a fit again) McCarthy. Use that money to buy a Baines replacement (buying a striker is a given, if the rumours of a €70 million bid for Costa is true).
21 Posted 27/09/2017 at 04:39:03
Take those three off the wage Bill and, along with giving Sigurdsson a more central midfield role, get a striker in who knows how to score 15-plus goals a season.
22 Posted 27/09/2017 at 05:23:57
23 Posted 27/09/2017 at 05:35:46
I wonder if the Chelsea episode was some sort of epiphany to him, perhaps he isn't so sure, or waits to see Koeman's future? Mention made again in the press though for what it's worth, of Tottenham.
Interesting, but as much as we all have our opinions and as widely as they often vary, the general consensus is starting to focus; people are seeing the problems, and the possible solutions, and they're becoming more defined.
Ajay I agree about the midfielder/striker purchase.
24 Posted 27/09/2017 at 06:20:55
"I could equally say that Klaassen clearly lacks the sort of pace, power and strength that Barkley has, which is largely what appears to so compromise him."
Agree. I think Klaassen does have a very good football brain and awareness of what's around him on the pitch – but lacks the physical side. It will be interesting to see what time Ross gets when fit again.
25 Posted 27/09/2017 at 07:17:28
He was also very poor in the Europa League final against against Man Utd. The money paid for Klaassen and the wages which went on Rooney should have been put towards bringing in another two strikers.
26 Posted 27/09/2017 at 07:25:49
I'd also like to see Ross playing again, I think he still has something to offer us. He blew his chance to be transferred and now he must honour his contract and give us his best.
27 Posted 27/09/2017 at 07:29:18
Why doesn't he just play him (Klaassen) in the cups so he can find his feet? Trying to force-feed him pl-games in that position on the pitch and in the team just seems... foolish. He is supposed to link up with all the other players and make the attack flow, but he doesn't know a single player well yet, he doesn't know the league or the new formation/system Everton uses yet.
It will take time; but we should not be dropping points because of it.
28 Posted 27/09/2017 at 07:31:18
Haven't seen any through balls, does not take the ball on the half turn. Yes he first time passes it, but its all simple 5-yard or 10-yard balls which either goes sideways or backways. The amount of times I've seen him lose the ball at the slightest touch of pressure is mind-boggling.
I'm willing to give the lad time to adjust to the Premier League, but those who are trying to big the lad up let's be truthful here, the lad has been fucking awful. Let's hope he can turn it around.
29 Posted 27/09/2017 at 07:52:33
None of the centre-mids have done well this season. It's because the team has been so narrow and lacking in movement up front. Once we get a well balanced team, the performances of all of the centre-mids will improve.
30 Posted 27/09/2017 at 08:02:47
31 Posted 27/09/2017 at 08:20:26
Why he starts above Davies is what mystifies me most at the moment though. If need be introduce him later in the game from the bench. I don't get £6m a year to make those decisions though.
32 Posted 27/09/2017 at 08:23:47
33 Posted 27/09/2017 at 08:28:36
It is easy to recognise a quality player. Even if said player is not match fit or out of form, there is just something there you can see. Not Davy Klaassen there isn't he looks lost and afraid of the bigger boys... Need to send him back to Ajax .
34 Posted 27/09/2017 at 08:38:54
Against Bournemouth, Koeman stumbled upon what should be the crux of the team. Will he recognise that and make the appropriate changes? Davies and Niasse work well together to get the goals, so structure the team around them. The big names may not like it but what's more important keeping big names happy or winning games?
Two up front, 4 at the back and 4 in midfield. It works and we have the players to succeed with that formation.
35 Posted 27/09/2017 at 08:44:45
36 Posted 27/09/2017 at 08:56:59
It is not about the sprint speed of players, it is about the quick thinking and pass. And knowing where each other will be. Man City last season a times had games when quick thinking destroyed them.
I do think many of our players have that in them but it will take time to click.
37 Posted 27/09/2017 at 09:06:42
38 Posted 27/09/2017 at 09:33:34
39 Posted 27/09/2017 at 09:40:06
So that being said, he must want to set up with 3 No 10s, presumably to pass our way through the other team with the width and pace being supplied by the wing backs supplying a lone (or the way our transfer policy's shaping, a loan) striker.
I can see the logic or the theory behind it, I just think it's a lousy one-dimensional way to play, and goes against the current orthodoxy of counter-attacking with pace to burn.
The line up vs Burnley will be interesting as I'm willing to put money that it will be the team that started vs Bournemouth; put your money on Davies playing on Thursday and benched on Sunday.
40 Posted 27/09/2017 at 09:43:04
Now as other's have rightly stated it took Modric, Eriksen etc a season to settle to the league. Klaassen was Captain of Ajax and obviously a hero there so he could be a player, but is he a player we really need? For me that is a resounding no.
I can't believe we spent £45m on Sigurdsson to play out of position. We are also paying Rooney £150k p/w for that same position with Barkley still on the books and Lookman developing into a more Sterling-esque central player.
41 Posted 27/09/2017 at 09:57:19
I don't think he should not be starting yet in the Premier League and as others have said I have no idea why we bought him considering that Rooney and Sigurdsson especially were clearly long term targets. The strategy behind this Summer's transfer business continues to baffle.
I hope that Klaassen may develop into a longer term deeper midfielder, able to play alongside Gueye or Schneiderlin but to do so he needs to get fitter, faster and stronger. Work to be done.
42 Posted 27/09/2017 at 10:02:20
43 Posted 27/09/2017 at 10:22:05
44 Posted 27/09/2017 at 10:44:20
Can't think of much more, admittedly. A couple of well timed (but fruitless) darts into the box, while others have looked dead to the opportunity?
There's no doubt he's found it hard going.
45 Posted 27/09/2017 at 10:44:52
46 Posted 27/09/2017 at 10:49:12
47 Posted 27/09/2017 at 11:02:21
He is the manager, we have established that, therefore he should take any blame for collectively bad performances; we all know any player can have an off day, they are human.
I have asked this question of myself many times: most of the players we have were decent players at their previous Clubs, which prompted us to buy them in the first place; for some we have paid over the odds, but still, they don't suddenly become bad players overnight.
So, I have come to one conclusion, it must be the training, they are either acting to orders, or confused. Either way, the buck stops firmly and squarely with the man at the helm!
48 Posted 27/09/2017 at 11:14:02
I completely agree with your assessment of what's going wrong, and that he stumbled upon a winning system.
Let's see if the manager realised what he has done. The teams he selects on Thursday and Sunday will answer those questions.
49 Posted 27/09/2017 at 11:15:02
As for Klaassen, I think he's shown good spatial awareness and an ability to make smart passes in tight spaces around the box. Admittedly this has mostly been against lesser competition in the Europa League qualifiers (he was particularly good in this respect in the first Hajduk Split leg, setting up both goals and assisting Rooney on what should have been a third).
There's an intelligence to his play that I think bodes well long-term, even though he's still struggling to get a foothold in the Premier League.
50 Posted 27/09/2017 at 11:15:25
The difference being Mourinho had the balls to acknowledge that and not leave the team exposed by playing him unlike Koeman with Klaassen.
51 Posted 27/09/2017 at 11:17:02
He was bought to be "productive", ie, score goals or make assists. He has done fuck-all, mate. There's no doubt he needs time and he should be given that imo. But to sugarcoat things is wrong, end of.
52 Posted 27/09/2017 at 11:20:13
53 Posted 27/09/2017 at 11:26:35
If you're going to pick out Klaassen for criticism, then be fair to the lad, the rest of them have been as bad since pre-season.
54 Posted 27/09/2017 at 11:28:12
He looks to always be making runs into the box and his passing to teammates, while not 40-yard cross field balls, seems quite clinical. I think he just needs time to get up to speed to the kick and rush/counter attacking style of play we have in the Premier League.
You don't get to captain Ajax in your early 20s by being shite, as has been quoted a few times in these comments. In my opinion he looks to be the first player since Ossie that can play those neat interchanging passes, then ghost into the box like Cahill.
As a said though, I don't watch the team every week and TV can make you look better than a pair of eyes watching from the sidelines. Maybe season ticket holders can give a better scouting report?
55 Posted 27/09/2017 at 11:29:09
56 Posted 27/09/2017 at 11:37:44
Comparisons with Barkley are unfair, as they are very different styles. He reminds me of many Eastern European players, they pass and move, play little triangles, in a collective way.
I am sure that Klaassen will become an important member of our team and in a few months we will be extolling his virtues.
57 Posted 27/09/2017 at 11:46:56
I think you have summed it up very well, you forgot to add that the other three players have been playing in the premier league for a few seasons more than Klaassen.
58 Posted 27/09/2017 at 11:55:54
I don't see why some are saying lets hope Koeman does a u-turn with Barkley like he did with Niasse. They are totally different cases, Niasse was given no game time and told to find another club. Whereas Barkley played in at least 95% of games under Koeman and the club have reportedly offered him a contract of £100,000 per week to stay.
Now I cant think of too many players who play for a club outside the top 6 who are on that sort of money. So, far from being left out Koeman actually played him; yes, he had a go at Barkley but he was hardly pulling up trees when he did.
Now if he was offended by Koeman's comments then don't ever think of signing for probably the World's best manager Jose Mourhino as he does it all the time.
59 Posted 27/09/2017 at 12:01:21
Exhibit 1 for the defence.
60 Posted 27/09/2017 at 12:05:16
Klaassen's performance may be a symptom of trying to play too many No 10s in the same team. Klaassen, Rooney and Sigurdsson etc are all previously trained or hardwired to play in exactly the same zonal space and look for the same opportunities.
If you play more than one in the same team then one or more is going to become ineffectual. They're not played out of position they're being asked to play in a position that doesn't exist.
Imagine trying to field two 'keepers. Someone's going to be sat on their arse the whole game as someone else is stood between the sticks.
62 Posted 27/09/2017 at 12:13:36
Seems to me that sort of pass was second nature years ago with lots of players; now you mostly see the ball passed square to the man or even behind him, players having to stop and taking seconds to get the ball to their liking, does my head in.
A good pass (like Klaassen's) should be part and parcel of every professional footballer; sadly it isn't.
63 Posted 27/09/2017 at 12:33:28
64 Posted 27/09/2017 at 12:37:24
For those advocating Barkley was given time. He's had four years in the first team. That's plenty.
Klaassen needs a more graded introduction into British football, absolutely needs to understand the physicality of it all.
I expect him to play Thursday, the Europa League is his best route to building his confidence up. Then off the bench in Premier league games.
Fair to say his start has been, like Sandro, the most difficult. I think he's a good player. So time will tell.
65 Posted 27/09/2017 at 12:38:12
Some players take longer to adapt; some fire on all cylinders (like Torres) immediately. Time is needed for both him and Sandro and usually quality will shine through.
Bergkamp at Inter and Paulinho at Spurs are examples where it didn't quite go to plan despite them being quality players.
66 Posted 27/09/2017 at 13:18:06
Fair enough. There are plenty of talking points. Let's not just make cheap shots.
As for Comparison between Barkley and Klaassen? One player wants to play no father part in Everton Football Club's future, so how he measures up like for like is a bit moot.
I don't know if Klaassen will make it. But, given his past, I am willing to give him a season to adjust. If he were ready made world class he would have cost a hell of a lot more!!
67 Posted 27/09/2017 at 13:22:04
68 Posted 27/09/2017 at 13:54:07
Jim, I always have to respond when someone posts that as it seems to imply the situation was a simple case of Barkley wanting to leave as the first event. Whilst not having 100% proof, activities strongly indicate another story, a driver behind the situation: I take the view that he felt compelled to leave.
To Klaassen. Yes, everybody deserves a chance. The guy must be feeling the pressure. I watched everything of him on video. He looks neat and tidy, a very swift linking player, a few goals in him but little more, I thought. The Eridivisie is a very different prospect to the Premier League nowadays. It might be too much.
Hopefully it works out for him but things have to be managed to help him get to wherever he can get without holding the team back. He really has been a waste of a slot in the team most of the time, in my opinion.
70 Posted 27/09/2017 at 14:23:15
It's more about Ron getting the balance right which so far he has failed miserably unless forced to. Plus his total lack of belief when playing the top six. God help us when we go the Piggery, again.
71 Posted 27/09/2017 at 15:31:23
Here, he has sloths all around him. I think he will play on Thursday and, with the likes of Davies, Vlasic and hopefully Lookman, he will have some pace to work with.
72 Posted 27/09/2017 at 15:33:01
We all know that footballers are paid huge, some might say obscene, sums of money, but it is wrong to castigate Barkley's agent for turning down what for most of us is a King's ransom when the only way that players actually measure their worth to a club is by their place in the pecking order. This is done usually by comparing salaries; so was Lukaku worth 50% more to the club than Barkley at a point in time when the former was making it clear that he was going to leave anyway?
I have said this before; if you want him to stay, make Barkley the same offer as Sigurdsson. If you want shut, have the decency to say so and stop blaming the lad himself for a flawed and failing transfer policy.
Nor is there any point in bringing Barkley into the debate about Klaassen. Klaassen is more a Tom Cleverley than a Ross Barkley: neat, tidy, lacking pace. Cleverley was sold for £8m. Klaassen was bought for three times that amount.
74 Posted 27/09/2017 at 15:39:58
That doesn't make sense to me!
75 Posted 27/09/2017 at 15:43:20
So you're friends with Ross? I assume you've sat down and had a pint with him recently. So you can confirm that he won't be going to Spurs and his only reasoning in rejecting the move to Chelsea was out of his love for Everton?
76 Posted 27/09/2017 at 15:54:52
It's still too early to write him off; he could become invaluable to the squad later in the season. Be fair it's not just him; the whole team and manager have been disjointed. Hardly a good environment to settle.
Once his fitness is improved and his adjustment to the Premier League is given another few months, I expect him to do well. I think, with extra fitness and a confidence boost, he will be a success.
77 Posted 27/09/2017 at 16:01:10
I think Sigurdsson is still behind the others for his lack of pre-season and I think the price tag is adding a little extra pressure on him at the moment. More worried about him, although we have seen moments of brilliance from him, but he also took a free-kick the other day and send it right into the stands!
Sandro also needs a little bit of time adapting but he'll come good sooner as he loves to play physically that's why he moved to England. He wants to get stuck in and I'm sure he will.
I'd give Rooney a rest this weekend but play him on Thursday.
78 Posted 27/09/2017 at 16:08:44
There is too much smoke-and-mirror stuff going on at Everton and people trying to be too clever by half. As it happens, I do not believe that selling Ross makes any sense but, if you are determined to do so, then at least try not to appear too anxious. Daniel Levy eats these people for breakfast.
And ps, I'll sit down and have a pint with anyone to talk Everton!
79 Posted 27/09/2017 at 16:17:09
Finally, someone who knows Ross and his family then. So please tell us how do you know Ross? How long? When did you and he discuss his long-term plans for football? What are the terms of his unsigned contract? How is his recovery going? Why does he think that he got punched in the nightclub?
Your first paragraph implies a level of familiarity with Ross that other posters do not have, but lacks any details. You then use this "status" to tell other posters that they are wrong and should stop posting. If you do not actually have the relationship implied then, just stop it. You only look foolish. If you do have such a relationship, then tell us what we are missing!
Those of us who do not presume to know Ross personally do know that he was offered a contract that is as yet, unsigned. On the surface, this does not seem to be consistent for a player who wants to remain an Evertonian. There are other stars in other sports that have taken less money to play for a team in a city where they wanted to be but, as of yet, Ross is not one of them.
Personally, I do not rate Ross at his age now, as anything but slightly above average technically and below average tactically. He has pace and power, but those are subject to decline as he ages. If he stays or goes, then, either way, I wish him a long career free of injury.
So long as he sleeps in Everton jammies he will always be welcome... right?
80 Posted 27/09/2017 at 16:32:27
If you'd read anything I've posted about the Board, I think it would be fairly clear the club wouldn't like me very much.
But back to your chastising supporters who don't know Ross the way you do. So, what did he tell you? Is he signing up or another five years? Definitely not off to Spurs? Please help us be better informed.
81 Posted 27/09/2017 at 17:17:25
T'was always "jam tomorrow" and Koeman ain't no different!
82 Posted 27/09/2017 at 17:29:03
What part of 'a pity he didn't show the same faith in Barkley' doesn't make sense?
All Koeman did last season, apart from taking him off, was constantly criticising his performance in the public domain. He was his scapegoat, for our bad performances. I'm not saying Ross was our best player last season, but he certainly wasn't the worst. He was the one player who kept looking for the ball, to move us forward.
I'm not blaming Klaassen, it's a big change from the Dutch league, and he needs time, but if Ross performed like he has this season, he'd be called ashore long before half-time, and do you think Koeman would defend him? He'd hang him out to dry.
83 Posted 27/09/2017 at 17:55:41
Derek (#47): Yeah, I agree about the coaching being the issue.
84 Posted 27/09/2017 at 18:02:29
The only thing we can do is wait and see. Otherwise we may as well write in a six game cut off clause in all their contracts. Don't perform from the off and you're out.
85 Posted 27/09/2017 at 18:05:52
The latter two have been linked before, and we do need quality in addition to what we have.
86 Posted 27/09/2017 at 18:08:01
Klaassen has been poor in a new League, but what excuse do Rooney, Sigurdsson & Schneiderlin have? Those four players look lost on the park, without a clue as to how they are supposed to be playing.
OMG, Rooney, Sigurdsson stand out like a sore thumb, you can see they are class players. But yes, the formation does not help these players.
87 Posted 27/09/2017 at 18:14:41
88 Posted 27/09/2017 at 18:17:43
England is one of the toughest leagues in the world. Give the lad some time to adjust to it. Klaassen certainly hasn't hit the ground running but not every player does at a new club.
89 Posted 27/09/2017 at 18:34:18
90 Posted 27/09/2017 at 18:47:12
91 Posted 27/09/2017 at 19:22:38
Here's something that doesn't seem to have occurred to you... The people who are writing off Klaassen (if indeed they are) may not all be the same people as those who are berating Koeman for doing exactly the same thing. And those who are defending and supporting Klaassen (looks like the majority) are not all the same people who defended and supported Koeman.
Is it not more likely to be different opinions given honestly by people who are treating the two things as separate issues... because they are two separate issues?
92 Posted 27/09/2017 at 21:06:07
Shouldn't the same people now be castigating Koeman for "Blowing smoke up Klaassen's arse"?
93 Posted 27/09/2017 at 21:23:01
94 Posted 27/09/2017 at 21:45:29
Perhaps Koeman tried to play Barkley in a way that didn't suit his game or abilities. Back then people called it "Improving him", but now, the concept of Koeman playing people wrongly or out of position is better understood.
I guess it will be interesting to see the threshold point at which Koeman starts his intelligent, no-nonsense public improvement programme on any of his new signings, should they continue to struggle. I reckon Sigurdsson has enough Premier League games to qualify. The guy needs to get his ass in gear assuming Koeman gives him the chance to play to his strengths.
95 Posted 27/09/2017 at 22:00:47
My view would be that he currently loses possession a lot and hasn't adapted to the pace of the Premier League or to the physicality (such a Martinez phrase, I know...)
However I don't see a current a player who's prepared to pass the ball forward and first time as much as he does and as he improves we'll all see that. He's different to lots of the current midfielders and I do think he'll be great!
96 Posted 27/09/2017 at 22:23:21
Koeman clearly has some sorting out to do in terms of the lineup. Until we have a clearly defined way of playing that suits the players, and he stops playing Rooney, Sigurdsson and Klaassen in the same team, I think it's difficult to judge...
97 Posted 27/09/2017 at 23:48:46
He linked up nicely once or twice in pre-season with Rooney this way, but admittedly he has struggled to find the same time and space in the Premier League. But he will come good lots of players struggle initially.
Off the top of my head, Baines, Jagielka, Osman and Naismith all struggled at first, and they all turned out to be good servants.
98 Posted 27/09/2017 at 23:52:04
99 Posted 28/09/2017 at 01:05:59
100 Posted 28/09/2017 at 02:07:19
Also you just cannot compare him to Ross. Ross was always looking for the ball and wanting to be in the action. Other than Rooney and Tom I do not actually see anybody in the team crying out to be given the ball at the moment.
This is the big difference, good players always want the ball and are able to turn nothing in to something. I really have not seen Sigurdsson grab a game by the scruff of the neck yet either. Maybe for £45M we should give him half a season to get up to speed?
So essentially we are saying two players worth £70M combined need considerable time to bed in. For that sort of money I would have thought they should hit the ground running but maybe you can only expect that if you pay £200M?
101 Posted 28/09/2017 at 02:56:54
I, like you, have no idea if Klaassen will net out. But Eriksen also took over a season to adjust at Spurs. De Bruyne was sold off to Germany before coming back as a star at City. Mkhitaryan Couldn't hold his place at first.
There is a long list of players that come to England and take time. Hell, Arteta was a flop league after league before coming here.
102 Posted 28/09/2017 at 08:32:08
However, I have noticed that some on here take a different opinion as an alien concept, or a challenge to their thinking. Don't take things personally folks; who is to say, who is right, or who is wrong? It is not about right or wrong, it's about different points of view, so please, no alienation.
One thing that unites us all, is Everton, and I appreciate that feelings at the moment are running high, due to a number of factors. I can't remember the author of the quote, but remember it's content: "While I don't agree with what you say, I will fight for the right, for you to say it".
103 Posted 28/09/2017 at 08:43:21
Well now you are talking about the personality of the manager which is a different subject altogether.
Considering Barkley is a seasoned premier league footballer of four years with Everton, I think Koeman has shown lots of faith in him and has also said he wanted him to stay, another sign of faith in him don't you think.
Klaassen won't get four years to prove he has what it takes. Koeman has also told Klaassen he must work extra with fitness guys I see that as a first warning he needs to do more.
104 Posted 28/09/2017 at 08:58:07
He is a good player among other good players. The real question here is what's happening to make these good players look slow and awkward?
105 Posted 28/09/2017 at 09:33:48
This would give him a fraction more time to get the ball forward fast with increased options.
There's no doubt, and Koeman agrees, that he needs to toughen up. He is a player who will finish the season strong and benefit greatly from the return of Bolasie and Coleman.
106 Posted 28/09/2017 at 09:58:35
107 Posted 28/09/2017 at 10:38:22
Some might say that's nonsense, but don't take it too literally I say he 'reminds me' of Lampard, not he's as good as Lampard. (It's becoming increasingly more important to put disclaimers on your posts these days!)
He has a similar style, almost languid at times, which appears lazy/slow but actually he has the football brain that a player like Barkley lacks from what I can see.
At the moment, he's a bit of a conundrum, but as someone above has said, once we start playing with some width & pace I think you'll see Klaassen flourish in midfield. Currently our games are so narrow and congested that he's struggling a little bit to find any time or space, but it'll come. You don't captain Ajax at 23 for no reason.
109 Posted 28/09/2017 at 11:20:55
110 Posted 28/09/2017 at 11:59:12
It's interesting to read all the posts on ToffeeWebb that are defending Koeman. They seem to vary from personal comments on those posters who express concerns about Koeman, to attempts at comparing the current situation with Kendall. Apart from those arguments, which are pretty thin and desperate, there is little to nothing if substance in Koeman's defence. That in itself could indicate how his time here might be nearly up.
111 Posted 28/09/2017 at 12:18:50
112 Posted 28/09/2017 at 12:27:06
That team can play joined up football, can defend, and attack. It can also switch to 4-3-3 because of Rooney's presence in midfield from whence he could control the game. He should have the armband also.
The other big plus is that both Calvert-Lewin and Niasse are prepared to press and track back if needs be. Niasse won the ball back on the left wing just inside their half to start and finish the move for the equaliser against Bournemouth.
The other quality of that team is that is full of fighters. If you and I can see that surely Koeman can. The question is does he have the courage to leave two of his signings on the bench Schneiderlin and Klaassen.
If he can and does we might start seeing some performances that look like Everton is on the pitch. Let's hope so it's the hope that keeps you going.
114 Posted 28/09/2017 at 13:29:54
But Klaassen, against Sunderland, looked off the pace. I have no idea what he is like at top form, but I am still willing to say that it might just be that his confidence is low and his form has been affected.
He probably needs a "diplomatic" injury and to be taken out of the firing line. Why we should not give him time to bed in is beyond me. It's not like we can get rid in January and recover our cash? Of course not. Give the boy a chance.
What's more, its not exactly like we are short of options. An even more compelling reason, however, is that leaving out an off form central playmaker and introducing some genuine width and pace might actually be a win-win for player and the team collective.
But I don't get paid £6M a season to make these decisions, so I defer to the bloke who is.
115 Posted 28/09/2017 at 13:41:33
Do you not feel that Davies and Sigurdsson are not the type of wide player that you need to make 4-4-2 work? It may be that they would be our normal square pegs in round holes? Can our defence survive with a single defensive midfield player?
You need very good players to make 4-4-2 work and very few teams use it now. In the Premier League, I can only see Man City and Chelsea who could do it. Leicester City won the title with it but they had good specialist wide players and Vardy who is perfect for that set up.
When Everton have tried 4-4-2, as when they try 3 at the back, they have normally been very poor. Perhaps Bolasie and Vlasic could make it work. Mirallas perhaps but Davies wide on the right? He'd be perfect as the second midfielder for sure.
116 Posted 28/09/2017 at 14:28:59
His automatic inclusion is really what is and will in time be our downfall; too many are playing in unfamiliar positions because of this.
117 Posted 28/09/2017 at 16:10:24
I hope and pray he selects a side with a sense of urgency, forward thinking, and capable of scoring a few, while keeping things tight at the back.
Tall order maybe, but we have decent players, it's getting the combination right, and not just throwing them all into the mix, with no strategic plan.
118 Posted 28/09/2017 at 16:35:25
I have my own view on that but the key to it is Rooney's role which I see as very much like Okazaki's contribution to Leicester's success.
I really believe that, if he plays Rooney there, we will start seeing some proper football.
119 Posted 28/09/2017 at 16:56:30
Any combination of the players, left to their own devices, would be an improvement, I believe.
120 Posted 28/09/2017 at 19:41:05
121 Posted 28/09/2017 at 23:56:04
Look at Vlasic: we have seen flashes; Sigurdsson, tempting tidbits...
This guy hasn't shown a halfpenny of anything at all to even so much as make me raise an eyebrow.
122 Posted 29/09/2017 at 12:21:25
Maybe young Davy needs to have a chat with his teenage teammate. Nikola Vlasic who seems to have hit the ground running?
Sorry mijn Nederlandse vriend, it's just another in a long line of excuses.
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