Liam Walsh returns from Birmingham loan

Talk about wrong move wrong time.

Great that however it's happened the club have him back in the U23 set up.

Beni Baningime has not let himself down at all so far but I'd think Walsh would be ahead of him in the pecking order if there are first team games going.

In January I hope stays with Everton, he is not getting game time with Birmingham's first team because they are in a bad position in the Championship so the manager will be using his experienced players, although it doesn't look like they are doing him or the club much good.

Get back here Liam and if Unsworth gets the job you will be another young player who gets a game for the first team, if you do make sure you take your chance, you've got the ability.

Let's take them out of their highly competitive situations and bring them back to sit on our bench and kick around with our U23s until we're "safe from relegation."

And then throw them into the starting lineup.

Wonderful concept of player development. Brilliant.

His progress has been pretty hampered by injury sadly but a couple of years ago I think many were seeing him as the jewel in the crown. Fingers crossed he can get back on track, a few good games for the U23s and possibly a loan move in the new year if the right opportunity arises.

Get him nice and fit in the U23s until January & then back out on loan for me.

The thing that frustrates me, is that it doesn't look like a lot of thought goes into WHERE we are loaning our youngsters!

They have to be a mid to upper half of the table championship team – or a league 1 team pushing for promotion. A team where they will get a lot of game time, but in a decent team too so they can show their ability.

Galloway has been wasted in the last two years, and funnily enough we have needed him quite badly in the last year.

He should have gone to a team where he would be guaranteed a start at LCB in a 2 or a 3 man defense. Galloway hasn't played since matchday 5... Also bad luck due to chance in manager, and a team that is struggling will always go to the experienced players to try fix it... but you can't say that Marc Wilson is a better player than Galloway!

Got to get these decisions right & insert a clause that if they haven't played X amount of minutes/games etc (barring injury), the loan can be cancelled. No point wasting everyone's time.

He can do pretty much what Tom Davies does plus takes great corners and free kicks. What he needs is what every player needs, a bit of luck, if he gets that, just watch him go.

First game went head to head with Chelsea so called best and swamped them – we had over 20 chances with him running the midfield supported by Baningime.

Second game this season – he went head to head with Hazard and bossed him and we won 3-0.

Very skilful, short and strong and a winner's attitude.

Browning has done better... but to make it in the Premier League you need to be killing it in the Championship, and I don't think Browning or Pennington (at Leeds) are doing that. Dowell on the other hand is going well.

I think all of these 4 have been loaned out to appropriate clubs and the manager of Sunderland had previously handled our loanees well at Preston. Unfortunately he's been sacked.

Pennington has been hit and miss, he was injured for 2 months then had a couple of good games and a couple of bad games.

Galloway started the first few, I think he scored one, then hasn't featured at all for the last couple of months. I think he's there as a left back but can't get in past Oviedo.

Dowell's played 12 I think, 6 goals and 3 assists.

The other one who no-one mentions is Joe Williams at Barnsley who has played almost every game. Not heard a lot about him, sits in front of the defence and does his job.

What strikes me most about him is his attitude; willingness to learn and lead. If he stays here I would wager you'll see him first hand before long.

Funny that Kevin brings up Joe Williams as I was thinking that the other day. Joe is the forgotten jewell, never as highly rated as those before him but I think it was his emergence when Ledson and Walsh were on loan at Cambridge and Yeovil that eventually saw Ledson leave the club for games.

Williams plays every game for Barnsley in the Championship and recent scored a worldy against Burton. Another one for TW to report on from time to time.

I have a dream: Beni wins it in midfield, passes to Davies who gives it to Kenny who lays it off to Lookman who beats two men and threads it to Walsh who pings it to Calvert-Lewin who beats his marker shoots, the goalkeeper parries the shot to Dowell who slots it home.

Altogether now – you can say that I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one.

We are fairly overrun with 'solid' central midfield players (Gueye, Schneiderlin, McCarthy, Davies, Besic etc) but to make yourself a mainstay in a mid-table Championship team at just 20 bodes well.

Joe is another lad who can tackle and pass, he played in the U23s game at the end of last season versus Liverpool, played his usual all action game, but seemed to me to have lost a bit of pace through the injury.

However he has played consistently well for Barnsley in a very competitive league so maybe he is back to the way he was, I hope so he looked a very promising player before his injury.

What was good about that game versus Liverpool was the way the young lads played for each other even though they lost. In one incident near the end of the game, a big brute of a player, a substitute for Liverpool, tackled Baningime with no intention of playing the ball, he put Beni down. Immediately Kenny and Williams were at this lad's face, Williams had him by the neck and had to be pulled off him, while Jonjoe was telling him what he thought of him. They play for each other and defend each other: the Evertonian Scousers.

Now read my post properly – or is your concept having them not playing in lower division sides or in their reserve teams?

I think that's what most of us mean when we refer to “getting Everton”. It's important, we recognise it when we see it, the scousers understand it, but so did people like Landon Donovan and Tim Cahill. It can be the difference between winning and losing, and needs to be harnessed by the manager.

However, he will be eligible for the Europa League. Is it not worth giving him some game time there in two dead rubbers?

I think Callum Connolly was back in the Ipswich team last week. Joe Williams seems to be getting the most value from his loan. Plays every week for Barnsley.

Alan Ball had the same fault, was his own worst enemy for it. In one game versus Newcastle, he was incensed by a poor decision from the referee and exploded. Howard Kendall pulled him away from the ref three times before the official had had enough and sent Bally off.

I would say that Ross does have good vision, and can see the pass, but he can also see a couple of other passes and suffers really from indecisiveness. I think he's a much better footballer when encouraged to play without thinking and to act naturally. I think Unsworth may be the man to help him with this, unlike his 3 previous managers who changed him too much, and made him think too much.

And I know YouTube makes things look better.

I was speaking to Tom Davies, before he made his debut, and I asked him about Walsh? He turned his head towards me and asked me how I knew about him? I told him me dar raves about him, and Tom, said he's me mate, I've come through with him.

The reason I mention this (not something I'd normally do) is because I could see the competitive spirit in Davies, right then, and I think that these kids who are coming through at Everton right now, are all the same. Little winners, they want the best for themselves, but also want the best for their mates, and these type of players drag every last ounce of effort out of everyone?

I may have blue tinted glasses on, but I do think we have something special in our class of '17, and I'd love Unsworth to be given some time to bring them through this season and see what happens.

Some are happy for Big Sam to come in and save us, and to write the season off. Why not let Unsworth bring the kids through, and as long as we stay up, then lets not see if the progress made this season is not to the benefit of the club in the long term, by giving us (even under a different manager next season) a team we can build on.

Hopefully it will be different with our own team, especially because we have got a lot of local kids who might just have a lot more feeling for Everton. Maybe a pointer towards this will be what Ross Barkley wants to do now Koeman, has left?

Although I was born in Everton, and spent the first 10 years of my life there, I grew into adulthood in Anfield. I know that Dave is in my age group, and he will remember when the extent of both Everton and Liverpool's recruitment policy, was to sign the entire Liverpool schoolboy team, between them.

Living in the Cabbage Hall area of Anfield, Goodison Park was only a ten minute walk away, and the only youth football we could see at that time was the Youth Cup, and I still drool over the likes of Joe Royle Jimmy Husband etc.

I am not in favour of the loan system, other than the benefit of giving young players the benefit of a really competitive experience. I certainly don't believe in the swapping of established players, I think that clubs should be restricted to loaning players up to the age of 21 years of age, and I also believe that a limit should be imposed regarding the number of players clubs can send out on loan.

Chelsea, according to reports have over 40 players out on loan, and though I may be elderly I don't think I'm naïve, I know that whatever system is adopted there will be someone who will abuse it.

Returning to my original reason for posting, I have to admit that the likes of Tom Davies, Dominic Calvert Lewin, etc were only names to me, whereas I'd actually seen Joe Royle , Jimmy Husband etc. play.

As I have hinted, I don't expect that there to be any changes to the loan system, [remotely resembling the ones I have put forward], but I would be interested in learning your views on the issue.

I agree with both MIke and Alan 8+9 - - funny how often that happens on here.

Two strong arguments . .Be interested in your thoughts

The loan system can be very beneficial to a player. In the current group, it looks as if Kieran Dowell and Joe Williams are benefiting hugely and to a slightly lesser extent Antonee Robinson. If players such as Liam Walsh, Brendan Galloway and Tyias are not getting games, then it's best that we bring them back to play with u23s as we've done with Liam Walsh. I don't think we can register them to play in the first team until the start of the next transfer window, once we have loaned them out.

Alan's posts do sometimes move me to sarcasm. A flaw in my character.

My point was simply that we loan these players out so they can get their first taste of fighting for a place in the lineup, which isn't possible for them at Everton. If they fail on loan, they're not likely to succeed with the big club. And most do fail. The ones who succeed in competing and developing sometimes become starters and even stars... paging Mr Coleman.

Yeah I got that. When you know your stuff like Mike indisputably does. its very easy to blow away somebody elses point . .but I feel there is something in what AJ has to say.

Would be interested in Dave's thoughts

I'd love you to explain two things. How does this vision work when he plays with his head down and why does it switch off when he is defending and opposition players run past him?

The rest have been impossible to assess. As they came through, Rodwell looked great, Ratcliffe looked awful. Coleman looked dreadful for the reserves, Cadamateri a world beater when he came into the first team.

The difference between a good manager and, well, us, is having the confidence to pick and continue with selecting these lads when things are not going right. The one thing we can do as supporters is to offer patience.

Frank Wade's input (#49) points to the way modern day football has a tendency to eat itself. The loan stats of the Italian teams are indicative of the huge greed of the monied clubs whilst the national team, and the careers of the indigenous kids trying to establish themselves as footballers, patently fail.

The fact that we reflect the same behaviour in our monied teams, whilst the national team continue to look like a Sunday League outfit and kids at any of the top clubs get so little game time is a disgrace.

Still, as long as the first-team players from here, there and everywhere, and the shysters in the boardroom, get more and more millions in their personal bank accounts what else matters?

Alan makes a point of bringing all our loan players back to Finch Farm. I can see the case in some of them but not all. Liam Walsh – I am completely biased in favour of this lad and want the best for him; he is not getting a game for Birmingham so what is the point of him staying there? Walsh needs to be playing so he might as well be playing for Everton's U23s as Birmingham's, and it is only six weeks to January.

Dowell looks to be growing up at Nottm Forest so leave him there; he'll learn to be a harder and rougher player in the Championship. He has all the skill necessary to be a good player... leaving home and learning to look after himself can only help him. As for the other players, Williams is getting regular football at Barnsley and is better there.

Each player is different and it is Joe Royle's job to assess them.

Anyway where was I, yes it all depends on each individual player, Anton Robinson looks a very good player and may not be getting enough games with Bolton but he is just up the road from home and easily able to see his family and friends while still getting some minutes in the Championship so leave him there.

Galloway looked a good prospect when he came into Everton's first team but he has since stalled seems to be an attitude problem when he is relegated to the reserves but I don't know the lad so could miles wrong about that.

Browning and Pennington will or should make good careers and money out of football but doubt it will be in the premier league but sincerely hope I am wrong about that.

When I first watched football the ambition of players was to get a good career and finish up managing a pub or something like that. Players starting today can be millionaires by the time they are in their early twenties, some achieve this and just fall away, others go on and on and become world famous; it is all down to how far they want to go. We have got quite a few young lads at Everton who can get to the top and we will all benefit if they do and they stay at Bramley-Moore Dock.

Dave, my theory is that he lost confidence. He was playing so well in Baines' stead when he got hurt, and the injury took much longer to heal than anticipated, so he was left on the bench. And when loaned out to get back up to speed, he couldn't get a game. I think the league also figured out that he was completely one-footed... could only tackle in one direction... and he became easier to beat off the dribble.

And I agree with Dave on Browning and Pennington, although I think Pennington's pace and skill could still make him a player if he can develop a little arrogance. He was downright timid last year when I saw him against Leicester.

My point is that anything to be found from sending players on loan should have been seen by now and if Everton were riding high in the Premier League then I'd be in favour of leaving those playing regularly where they are but not so for those not getting any game time.

Again, if and when we are clear of any relegation issues or perhaps even if it looks like we will be, these players should be brought back sometime before the end of the season for proper assessment by any new/permanent manager with regard to persevering or not. January is the only opportunity for those who may be who may be considered good enough for our first team this season and then on top of that they will have to compete next season with those already on the fringes of the first team (Lookman, Baningime, Sandro etc) and players basically still to come (Onyerkuru, Tarashaj). I'd sooner see this process start now rather than trying to assess them in pre-season friendlies alongside any new signings.

Pre-planning as is covered under the Cahill-Moyes article rather than golfing holidays being ruined by the wonderment of how the sale and purchase of a striker is going.

Put Galloway at a decent side, he'll play better. It's not always about the individual, and the singling out of individual performances. It's a team game.
Dowell is thriving in a team shape with players that compliment him, and an adoring, knowledgable Forest crowd.
The whole atmosphere at Sunderland has become insidiously pessimistic.
We need to pick the right clubs for these players to develop.
I see Galloway being at his best as the left sided centre back in a back three.
So send him to a team who plays this formation!!
As for Walsh, he should be at Forest with Dowell, or a similar side.

Williams is doing well, he's steady. But maybe that's his level with Barnsley.

Pickford (I know, the exception)
Kenny Pennington Browning Galloway
Davies Baningime Walsh
Dowell DCL Lookman

He needs to tighten up at the back and midfield, so I'd not expect to see Walsh until maybe the dead rubber in Europe, but it'd be great to see this kid given a chance.

I also think that Dowell is in the right place at the moment - although fingers crossed he will be in our squad next season.

Unfortunately his goal hasn't held up. Ireland 1-1 Denmark right now.

Duffy has developed more or less as Moyes expected -- a Championship-level centerback. Happy for him that he's back in the Prem with BHA, but never a top-drawer player.

Eric Dier was slightly different. We had him on loan, to our academy, for a prolonged trial. We decided that he wasn't worth the fee, it was ٟ.5m if I recall correctly, and I can forgive that one. The other two he should have kept.

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/revealed-how-close-everton-came-12681432

How does our worst ever coach get us to two semi finals in one season, a feat only matched by Howard Kendall in our entire history?

How does our worst ever coach take us to the quarter finals of a European Competition, beaten only by Howard Kendall?

Duffy was sold for ١ million. I thought it was shite management then and when I Iook at the utter shambles that our defence is now, I am even more convinced that the appointment of relegation Roberto was and is an indictment of Bill Kenwright.

Duffy was sold because he wasn't good enough. Actually, he was nowhere near good enough.

I've seen nothing from him since to change my mind. He wasn't what we needed.

I take issue with you labelling a manager who got 72 points, a record in the Premier League (by quite some way) and a total that's beaten only by Howard Kendall (and none of our other managers) as being our worst ever.

Again, no one else (but Kendall) has ever got Everton to two Cup Semi Finals in one season. And Again, no one but Kendall has taken Everton past the Quarter Finals of European Competition (not even Harry Catterick got Everton to the Quarter Finals).

So to call Martinez our worst ever, is absolutely ridiculous.

How many years ago did we sell him? And which premier league clubs did he dominate for in defense during that time? Don't pull the ridiculous Williams card as if it was a choice between the two. Williams isn't good enough either.

Let me make it simple for you. He was sold to Blackburn in 2014, then sold to Brighton last year. He hasn't been some great defender that we let go. He's been a Championship player and could easily be a Championship player next season.

There's no adjusting the Cup or European Record.

So again, the statement is ridiculous.

And hey, I've seen him with Brighton. Still bang average in my book, except for attacking corners in the air.

I hope anyone wanting O'Neill watched these games.

He destroyed Wigan. Pragmatism might well have saved them but it it had to be the Martinez way. Then he deserted them and for reasons beyond comprehension he got the Everton job. His last days at our club were as bad as it gets.

The damage he inflicted, compounded by Koeman( yes, I was wrong about him) has blighted what should be a new era for our club. He was abysmal.

We've had managers who dreamed of a season as good as the one that got Martinez sacked. Please rein in your sensationalism and gross exaggeration.

So I think we were lucky with the cup draws that season and I know you can only beat what is put in front of you: it really wasn't that much of an achievement, Steve.

Regardless Dave, Andy is saying he is the worst ever. He is far from it. He doesn't even make the top 10.

Poor mistakes from players who were just not comfortable on the ball, and then they were chasing the game, and never had enough about themselves to really go about this.

The Danes, also knew this, and they just passed the football early, and at pace, they knew they had too much quality for The Irish, and this was the obvious difference between the two sets of players.

Ireland all heart, but Denmark possessed the quality footballers.

Yes the Danish were far better but O'Neill played his part in that capitulation. He panicked at half time by taking off his two centre mids and replacing them with lightweight, inconsistent attackers, giving Eriksen the freedom of Dublin to pick Ireland apart. Asking Hendrick to play holding midfield, playing McClean as a striker is madness, asking a 75 year old Murphy to chase hoofs twice in four days, leaving Long on the bench. I could go on

As for the Duffy debate, he's excellent in the air and a good old fashioned stopper but positionally not always great, reacts too slow to danger at times and lacks pace. Much as I like him, he was not the level we needed at the time nor is he likely to be so Martinez was right to let him go and the player himself has benefitted from cutting his teeth in the Championship. The fact that he is playing at all after a laceration to his liver is testament to his strength of character.

You persistently championed Shane Duffy for years on these pages, but I seem to remember, come his departure, even you conceded it was the right call to cut him loose at that time.

He always had heart, was decent in the air and never let anyone down when he got a game, but nor did he ever look like having a realistic chance of cementing a place in the first-team squad. The fact we've seen a number of cloggers signed since (some of whom share Duffy's deficiencies) doesn't make ditching him a mistake in retrospect. It just means our recruitment over recent seasons has mainly been shite.

One thing is for sure though, rightly or wrongly, nobody can ever accuse you of not being firmly in your boys corner, but sometimes your sense of kinship can cloud objective judgement. After all, you once swore blind to me that Seamus was twice the player Gareth Bale could ever hope to be....

Well, Steve, NAME TEN WORSE?

I've added his comments to the main story up top.

Duffy looks to have developed into a good pro, but it took him three seasons to get back into the Premier League, and he plays for Brighton. It's not like he's some world beater that it was obvious we shouldn't have let go.

Ditto Mustafi, to be honest. He asked to leave to get more first team football, and subsequently only made 18 appearances over the next two years at Sampdoria.

Yes, both have turned into good players now. But the margins are small, and it's not like we released a young Franco Baresi in either of them.

I think with luck he can become a very good Everton player and he has the tempo and charisma to go with his playing ability.

Like everything in life, as we all do, we need a little bit of luck.

Good player with great attitude. He stands as much chance as any.

I think with look he can become a very good EFC player and he has the tempo and charisma to go with his playing ability.

Like everything in life as we all do need, a little bit of luck.

Far too much emphasis is on pace and power these days but so many lack basic control and skill, I think the most consistent performer this season has been David Silva, all 5ft-7in of him!

Well that's working out really well for him in 23rd position in the Championship! Tosser.

I suspect Cotterill is on borrowed time and a new manager may request to bring him back.