Dowell penalty helps Forest conquer Arsenal

How's Dowell doing against Arsenal?

I've read text commentary and seen he's got an assist.

Two great goals by USA international full-back, Eric Lichaj, a Sunday league player who normally can't tie his own laces.

Other than that, no real impact on the game by Dowell until he just hacked a pen off his own boot and into the top of the net. Double hit missed by the ref.

So if you read the text, you think Dowell's had a great game. Not so.

Slipped on the penalty but still scored after one touch IMO.

He'll be a good player for us next season, I reckon.

Shows that at least some Everton players have bottle. :-)

Obviously Dowell's having a fine season, because this was his ninth goal and sixth assist, but I saw multiple unforced giveaways and no assertiveness at all in his performance today. No doubt he has skill. But he did not step up today.

Very impressive from the teenager Brereton, who gave Mertesacker mares. Young player worth pursuing IMO.

I have not seen him on a consistent basis and so can only go off reports. Please, someone say they have seen him and my reading of the situation is wrong.

Got no time for Wenger's bleating.

Dowell was Dowell, skillful to a point but like a ghost, no physical presence but just floats around. No progress on the games he's had in a blue shirt.

I'd rather we also give Vlasic and Lookman a good run for the remainder of the season and forget signing the likes of Walcott who appears to be another has-been.

There has been a lot of angst and the wringing of hands following another derby defeat. There are definitely reasons to be optimistic and the likes of Kenny and Dowell can offer us blues some hope.

The penalty was a goal, end of.

But I am a dreamer, and through experience have learnt to expect to see an announcement of him being sold to a lower league team for a nominal fee. I hope I am wrong, but if that does happen, we have a guaranteed buy back clause. I believe he really is a special talent.

But I love it anyway. Happy to see the young man chalk one up. And watching the Arse walk off humiliated is going to keep me grinning all day.

They love him at Forest; he's got a magic left foot and has a great career ahead of him.

The club should be tying him down to a long-term contract as soon as he's back from loan.

You say tomayto I say tomarto.

That's me done :-)

I'm hoping Calvert-Lewin can have a rest now. And that Lookman gets more game time. For all his minutes, he'd of also benefited more by a loan. The much maligned Williams and Schneiderlin seem to have picked up a bit. Allardyce looks to be trying to play better football now he has organised the defence a bit.

So fingers crossed going forward as we have a lot of good young players that need to be brought along in the right manager.

I'd actually take Walcott. Something to prove (and he is better than what we have).

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/cant-wait-var-arsenal-fans-11813459

Having said that that rag has already decided Firmino is innocent and Holgate was mistaken!!

Who knows, or even cares lol!

Great to see Kieran Dowell getting a decent run at Forest and taking full advantage of it.

Davies, Holgate, Lookman, Calvert-Lewin, Kenny, Pickford, Dowell, Vlasic all have good careers ahead of them plus maybe one or two others.

I expected to see him conducting the orchestra from his #10 position behind the gifted young striker Brereton, but he spend much of the game floating anonymously. I had almost forgotten he was on the pitch by the time he took the ball for the pen. David (#6), sorry, but none of those players wanted to be here. Lukaku was never going to stay no matter what we paid him. Stones brought us what was the highest price for a defender in footy history until Van Dijk and nobody can convince me that wasn't a good piece of business. Deulofeu has utterly flopped at Barca, playing his way from a starting job to the bench to the stands in just nine appearances, and now has apparently played his way off the club forever as they try to sell him to Roma for €20m instead of loaning him to Inter.

I do agree with you that Lookman rates more playing time, but I've been singing that song for a year and a half and three managers have ignored me so far. Ah, well.

I have seen quite a lot of him at U23 level and for England and the talent was never I doubt but games seem to pass him by a bit. The step up to the first team is huge and so the decision to loan him out was not popular but for his development was probably the best.

I'm looking forward to his return next season when I hope he can kick on and cement a place in the match day squad.

Looking back at the youngsters who were allowed to leave for no or nominal fees I am struggling to think of any who have gone on to have top class careers. Most are plying their trade in the lower leagues.

Happy to hear of ones I've forgotten about – maybe Eric Dier although I was never quite sure what was going on with him when here.

What I have seen of him and stated quite a few times on here, he drifts continually out of the game, doesn't go looking for the ball, doesn't fight for the ball, but when he gets it he makes you sit up and take notice. Loads of skill, great passer of a ball, excellent at dead ball situations, maybe Forest have improved his all round game; I hope so.

If not, I can see Kieran dividing opinion a bit like, erm, what's that fella's name, who has just been transferred to Chelsea. I could be hopelessly wrong, I hope so.

In today's world of instant gratification, and zero patience, how the fuck are these kids ever going to develop? A few years ago, they wouldn't be anywhere near the first team until they were in their early to mid-20's. Now, some of you want them to be world beaters before they are legally allowed to drink!

I don't know why I think this. It might be the languid stride or the lack of that extra half-yard of pace that makes me think... "Mmmmm, has he got what it takes to make that step up?"

He's certainly got the attributes: good height, good weight, great balance, obviously a fantastic left foot. But there's something that just doesn't tick all the boxes for me. I just don't know what it is.

Now don't forget, I've only seen him play live 2 or 3 times and on the highlights shows so I'm sure someone can enlighten me.

I will say this though: He 'll never be another Sheeds... No-one will. Now that was a magic wand of a left foot... Unbelievable!

Those two traits plus his scoring ability will see him surpass Barkley in due course.

Dowell I wouldn't have noticed unless I'd been watching for him. At least until the pen.

Still silky on the ball, but also physically inept. I'd have thought that league might have beefed him up a bit.

Ultimately it's up to him to want to be better, especially physically and without the ball. I just don't see the drive in him to be a Premier League player? Maybe but time is running out for the step up.

Forest are a decent sized club and he seems to be picked a lot in a successful side.

For me it's definitely the way for them to develop – and the best way for us to know if they can be in the first team.

Dowell has had a very good season in a very average, mid table Forest team. It does not mean he is better than or even as good as Barkley who should have been sold for 㿏m.

Dowell has great talent for sure but scoring a few wonder goals does not mean you are Premier League ready. He needs to keep working and hopefully show a roundedness to his game that some coaches believe has been lacking in the past.

Get him back for next season, I say.

He placed a perfect cross for the first goal, brought the ball into the box and back-heeled it to the player that was brought down for the first pen and scored (jammily) the second pen.

If he could do that every couple of games, I wouldn't care if he spent the rest of the time sitting in the corner of the pitch reading his book. Obviously he has got more to learn but come on!

Kieran's gone to Forest as a young player learning the game, a genuine No 10 midfielder who is the leading scorer at the club and also 2nd in assists.

He is as a No 10 always going to drift out of the game if you play for a side with 30% possession as is the case today – Ozil and Silva would drift out of the game if they were playing with those stats.

As for the physicality, well he's improved massively in that area and playing in a physical league he more than holds his own, he defends competently in the zone at defensive set pieces, I've seen him win 50/50s on a regular basis, not every time.

The Forest fans adore him by the way and can't believe that they've got him.

I say all this as I go to nearly all the games at the City Ground as I often work in the area. There are some people on here who want every midfielder to be a Reid or Bracewell. Yes, you need those players but you also need the quality, guile, vision and goal potential this lad has who is on course for around 20 goals this year as a midfielder

People slagged Sheedy, who Kieran's being compared to, rotten even in his heyday. Used to listen to blokes shouting "Lazy bastard" and "He can't fucking tackle."

Thing is, even Everton have supporters who don't know their arse from their elbow.

I feel you're being a little harsh on Calvert-Lewin there but, admittedly, his back-to-goal play the other night was pretty poor. I thought he got well had off by Van Dijk, which may be expected at this point in their respective careers.

Many supporters seem to have an inbuilt mistrust of flair players like Sheedy and Kieran may come into that category.

By the way, Kieran only has 18 months left on his contract and I'm told his agent is the same as Barkley's. We should be looking to get him on a long-term deal very quickly to protect our investment.

Maybe a team can afford to have one player like that but he will have to be balanced by a high energy player who gets stuck in. He will be much better if he becomes more aggressive.

Referee Jon Moss consulted with his assistant over calls from Arsenal players that Dowell had made contact with the ball twice — television replays showed that the kick should indeed have been re-taken — but the goal stood and Forest progressed to the Fourth Round.

If a player touches the ball twice, then it is an indirect free kick to the opposition. So in this case, IF Dowell did touch the ball twice taking the penalty, then it should have been an indirect free kick to Arsenal.

The difference seems to be that one group played under a manager that encouraged them, albeit not all were Everton juniors, while the other group seemed to have succeeded through necessity.

It's not entirely true in every case but, if they're good enough, they're old enough. It's the man who can give them the opportunity that we must look to.

Nobody's "slagging off" the lad... just being realistic about what he does well and what he doesn't. Yes, his free kick was brilliant. He also hit the first defender on three corners. Yes, he controls the ball brilliantly. No, he doesn't win it off an opponent - ever.

Sheedy's my all-time favorite Blue, so please excuse me if I don't immediately buy into the comparison between the two.

Mike, that's the kind of criticism I am taking about. I apologise if you weren't slagging Dowell off in the same manner – I am just sick of the abuse that our young players receive on this site. I truly believe that one of the reasons that Barkley has just gone in such an appalling manner is due to the unrelenting criticism of him.

There is nothing wrong with ghosting in matches. I watched yesterday's game and he did a lot of running that created space for others. All of a sudden Brereton was open for an easy pass and run at the BFG Mertesaker.

Just because a player isn't in the action constantly doesn't mean he isn't impacting the game, when in position he always wanted the ball which is a good sign.

There is still a long way to go but this lad has a great chance of making it with us. He could be the elusive left mid that we have been missing for years. If he ever gets a run in our team we have Gueye, McCarthy, Davies and Schneiderlin to do his running for him.

http://lebuzz.eurosport.co.uk/viral/photos-riyad-mahrez-scores-freakish-penalty-disallowed-bizarre-double-touch-28336/

Law 14 - Penalty-kick

A PK shall be taken from the penalty-mark and, when it is being taken, all players with the exception of the player taking the kick, properly identified, and the opposing goalkeeper, shall be within the field of play but outside the penalty-area, and at least 10 yards from the penalty-mark. The opposing goal-keeper must stand (without moving his feet) on his own goal-line, between the goal-posts, until the ball is kicked. The player taking the kick must kick the ball forward; he shall not play the ball a second time until it has been touched or played by another player. The ball shall be deemed in play directly it is kicked, i.e. when it has traveled the distance of its circumference. A goal may be scored directly from a PK. When a PK is being taken during the normal course of play, or when time has been extended at half-time or full-time to allow a PK to be taken or retaken, a goal shall not be nullified if, before passing between the posts and under the cross-bar, the ball touches either or both of the goal-posts, or the cross-bar, or the goal-keeper, or any combination of these agencies, providing that no other infringement has occurred.

Punishment:

For any infringement of this Law:

by the defending team, the kick shall be retaken if a goal has not resulted.
by the attacking team other than by the player taking the kick, if a goal is scored it shall be disallowed and the kick retaken.
by the player taking the PK, committed after the ball is in play, a player of the opposing team shall take in IFK from the spot where the infringement occurred, subject to the overriding conditions imposed in Law 13.

It was Mahrez v Man City. See my post #60.

It's almost a casual arrogance that seems to make some players swan about the pitch looking barely interested, while others energetically put a real shift in.

Dowell has always played as if he doesn't like the physical aspect of the game, and will undoubtedly have been told hundreds of times to up his work rate and get more involved. I doubt he's capable of change but hope I'm wrong.

Should it have been an indirect free kick or should it have been retaken?

Reason I ask is...

‘The ball is in play when it has travelled a circumference', the ball hadn't travelled a circumference before the second touch so it technically wasn't in play. Can you give a free kick before the ball is back in play?

ps: I hope the sun is shining.

If so, will we now witness teams surrounding the ref calling for VAR, with some teams doing that more than others (guess who!)? I read in the Grauniad that players aggressively gesturing for VAR (with a square signal) will be cautioned "just like they are for asking for an opponent to be booked"). I can see that rule working more in the favour of some teams than others!

That is the biggest fear I have for Dowell. He doesn't appear to put a shift in, so unless he's getting assists or goals certain fans will lose patience quickly. We've seen it on here many times with many players. If you think it was bad for Ross, I fear it would be worse for Dowell.

If you think he can change his style then I hope you're right. But I don't believe he will be able to. The same criticism has been levelled at this kid for years and he hasn't changed. He actually reminds me of Bilyaletdinov more than Sheedy.

However, I will always support him and hope for the best for as long as he's ours.

He doubtlessly has talent; apparently we have been looking at Ben Brereton, Kieran's young team-mate who got MotM against Arsenal. Forest are desperate to keep Kieran, so logically we could arrange a swap, provided both players would agree to it.

Food for thought.

He doesn't stamp his mark on matches? Goals and assists aside I guess? I haven't seen any of his performances. I guess if he as to play to the level some here are requiring of him he'd probably be on 20 goals and 20 assists... wasted talent

Silky touches, spectacular goals but never puts shift in.

Everton Youngster Remains At Forest
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As Jon says, he is likely to get more game time there which is priceless at this stage of his career. He has genuinely sublime skills you can't teach.

Like many, I was surprised and disappointed to learn Liam Walsh was sold, but you have to say, no academy player that we let go or sold for a fee has seriously 'bit us on the bum' and showed it up as a bad decision.

Some may quote Eric Dier, but he was never fully our player, just loaned from Sporting; and Mustafi, who we poached from Hamburg as a 17-year-old, so not truly a 'full Everton academy babe'.

Of the rest very few made it to PL level and even then only with low ranking teams. Most find their level in league one and two.

I think a lot of Everton fans would like the ins and outs of Liam Walsh's transfer explained. How much did he go for? Is there any percentage fee due to us when Liam is sold on? Did Everton try to persuade him to stay? Had Allardyce seen Liam in training? Did Steve Walsh have any say in him staying or going? Was Liam adamant that he wanted to go?

The reason I am asking these questions, like yourself Jay, is I was disappointed that Liam was sold on. He is not just a run-of-the-mill player, but one who has a big chance of being a top player, illustrated by him going straight into Bristol City's first team (as a sub) against Man City in the semi-final of the League Cup.

Maybe Liam insisted on going, but there was very little about the transfer spoken about by the club and some of us would like to know some more. Treat us with a little respect now and again. I don't think we are asking for anything out of the ordinary.