Klaassen no closer to first-team opportunities

As far as our bench is concerned – Klaass-IN, Schneiderl-OUT

I can't understand managers saying that players need time to adapt but then not giving them game time. How can you adapt to something if you never do it???

So basically he tries really hard, but hasn't shown enough quality to get ahead of the other midfield players – who struggle to complete a pass or create a chance between them!!

That must be a real kick in the balls.

There is more to football than statistics; we are rapidly becoming the School of Mathematics, which is against the heart and soul of this club.

I wish Sam would shut his fat gob and jog on.

The fact that Klaassen has not made a match-day squad smacks of Allardyce using the player as a scapegoat given that he was signed by the previous Manager.

Baningime has also been treated to the same cold shoulder and he was one of Unsworth's protégés. The question that needs to be asked is: Could the two aforementioned players do any worse than Schneiderlin who, for whatever reason, still appears to curry favor with Allardyce, despite his shithouse performances?

Do we really employ scouts and did Walsh have anything to do with his purchase? If any of these buyers made this sort of monumental blunder in any other business they would be fired.So far we have spent money on Klaassen, Vlasic, Sandro and the guy we loaned to Anderlecht without any of them making the first eleven or in some cases the bench. This is surely almost criminally ineptitude.

By the way, on the latest ToffeeWeb poll, it says 5% think Allardyce should be retained, that's one in twenty or two thousand on the average attendance at Goodison.

I know all clubs have strange fans, but two thousand of them?

I understand why he hasn't played in the first team for a while. He looks slow, weak and gives possession away, not a great combination.

Schneiderlin must be flying in training to get a shirt each week.

We have a big squad of overpriced misfits.

I know the Napoli move broke down, but surely someone in Holland would have taken him?

It will probably be Allardyce's 'Oumar' moment when he finally gets a game and makes the difference; nailing Sams coffin shut.

Ridiculous to suggest this lad doesn't deserve a chance.

I'm not sure Allardyce can make it any clearer – he trains the best he can but he's shit.

It will be e interesting to see if the new manager keeps Klaassen or gets rid in the summer. If I was Davy, I'd be looking to cut my losses and get the fuck out of the club rather than hope that a fourth manager might see something in him that the other three haven't.

You have Schneiderlin who... well, enough said already.

You have Gana who basically runs around in the middle of the pitch putting a foot in here and there and not doing anything else but that's Gana isn't it?

Rooney who was classy before Christmas but since Christmas has started playing and running like Johnny Vegas, his legs have totally gone!

Davies who tries but it's just not really happening, his first touch has been atrocious at times and he doesn't have the physical presence or pace to truly excel in one particularly position in the midfield yet.

Sigurdsson who is continually played out of position and I've given up on ever seeing him play Number 10 now so he'll always be a mediocre performer in this Everton team with the odd wonder goal papering over the cracks.

Vlasic has disappeared up his own creek after a shit performance on New Year's Day against a Man Utd but he can't really play in the middle anyway.

So I ask again, could a five-game run in the team from Davy Klaassen really produce much more mediocrity than that bunch above?

As for him being shit... people keep trying to denigrate the current squad by claiming no top club would be interested in any of our players. Well, Napoli wanted him (just as Sevilla wanted Sandro) – but sure, let's keep acting like he's not fit to lace Schneiderlin's boots.

Like I said, if I was him, I'd be cutting my losses and looking for a European club in the summer rather than waiting to see if a fourth manager likes the look of him.

I'm guessing he's just keeping fit and waiting to see what the new manager (hopefully) thinks of him next season. If it doesn't work out, he'll be back to Ajax for a cut price. I'll have a stab at €8 million.

He was a captain of Ajax and even played in a deeper midfield role during his final couple of years in Amsterdam – the space currently occupied by Schneiderlin and occasionally Rooney.

Johan Cruyff said of him:

“You must have strong positioning, ability to control the ball at speed and also have the technique to deal with the speed of it. Xavi, Toni Kroos and Davy Klaassen can do it. All three have perfect anticipation and they can play it both left and right excellently. You watch, when Klaassen plays from that position for Ajax, the tempo increases immediately. Moreover, he rarely loses possession.”

I've got a horrible feeling that he's going to leave for another club, one with a manager that knows how to use him, and become a real success.

His only hope, our only hope, is that the depressing lump currently occupying the dugout will be replaced by a manager committed to playing progressive, attractive and winning football at the earliest opportunity.

Soft Arse's fantastic man-management skills are clearly as good as his tactical nous.

Johnny Heitinga played in a World Cup Final and was our Player of the Year for the 2011-12 season.

Drenthe and Van der Meyde were taken on because they obviously had ability and they were cheap, but it didn't work out because of their attitude problems. We certainly couldn't afford the likes of Bergkamp & Robben at the time.

I can only guess that Schneiderlin must know where the bodies are buried.

"Maybe somewhere down the line we will give him an opportunity."

Fucking really???? Maybe?

How hard is it to say "He's training hard and we'll monitor the situation on a day-to-day, week-to-week basis"?

Fucking daft Nugget!

With the Netherlands out of the World Cup, I don't know how much less his motivation is. Just a victim of too many central midfielders, what a shame.

When he does get a game "somewhere down the line", I hope he shows more heart than Schneiderlin and earns his place ahead of him.

Allardyce is surely only confirming what Koeman and Unsworth separately realised.

Where does the blame lie? In the person who recommended buying him – Walsh?

Given you have thrown the towel in on these particular fixtures, you have nothing to lose if you play Klaassen, Vlasic, Tosun, Baningime and even Feeney. You believe we have lost these particular games anyway so why not throw these guys to wolves? Quite what you would do if we won – ah yes, I know – you would claim all of the credit.!

I am loving the vote on TW right now, asking if Allardyce should be here next season – the last time I looked it was 96% for him to leave. I tried to vote one thousand times but it only allowed me the one shot.

Sigurdsson should play centrally as he does for Iceland. Trio of Sigurdsson, Davies and Klaassen? Can't be any worse than the current rubbish.

Very hard to judge whether he can cut it in this league when he doesn't get a run of games. If I was him, I'd keep my head down and focus on impressing the next manager in the summer.

I wanted Martinez gone, but things haven't gotten better...

I agree, I said a while ago Martinez with money got us Lukaku, McCarthy who in my opinion when fit is still our standout defensive midfielder. Gareth Barry was extremely shrewd business and so was Lennon who initially made a hell of a difference to our team .

He made some dodgy signings but we fans are clamouring for a return of Funes Mori (another Martinez signing) and all of a sudden the much derided final signing by Roberto, Oumar Niasse has become our cult hero and the go-to man .

Martinez had problems but none more than the first two years under David Moyes era and he was given a solid decade to build a stable team. People forget that Martinez was 39 years old when he took the Everton job and has time to learn and improve as a manager.

He had kept Wigan Athletic (a small town known more for rugby) in the top flight for four seasons before eventually getting relegated. He also worked a minor miracle getting that club a FA Cup success.

What I will say is at least under Martinez especially in that first year we saw a brave bold approach to games that hasn't been seen since and was rarely witnessed during the “knives to gunfights” decade under Moyes.

I remember Martinez press conference prior to winning at Old Trafford putting our abysmal record away to the top sides under the microscope and his words of it “being more than a football match and a test of mentality that Everton had to win that game”.

Oh for a mentality like that now?

Phenomenal!

Besides, if I was totally hacked off with his verbal diarrhoea, imagine what the players felt. To be honest, I'd rather have Allardyce – albeit by the slenderest of margins.

In the end, his position at Everton became untenable, but I sometimes wonder what he could have achieved with Koeman's riches and a bit more support from the board.

Anyone who thinks he was ever the answer to our problems should seek medical advice.

He was still on holiday when the season started, when her asked "Wooz the left-back and centre?" To some Dutch players he said "Wooz on holiday also?"

I now convinced I am right. Klaassen is sick of Holidays.

They all have big squads now but, if a seasoned pro is not with the first team, then it just looks like they will be stagnating, due to this alarming lack of competition that every player needs.

Well, why don't you try and do the same, Sam, you are getting serious money to do that but just going through the motions, as well as passing the buck onto the players.

Is it because he is laying the foundations to play Schniederlin again, holding his hands to the sky saying “I told you there was no one else”.

If nothing else, it just shows crass judgement. If, because of an injury and suspension, he gets on, exceeding the lowest of bars he has himself set, he looks an absolute plum.

Or plain and simple a distraction from the abomination of a performance at Watford?

Do one, lad.

For the record, Martinez destroyed all the team spirit and camaraderie that Moyes had built up throughout the club.

He was an egotistical bullshitter that couldn't stand that Moyes had such an influence. He totally lost the dressing room with his insane tactics and "phenomenal" statements.

Although we are all seeking answers, can we please drop this lunatic from any conversation.

Not excusing Allardyce of course but we can sometimes have poor / selective memories. I think this was around the time that the players decided to ditch Martinez's tactics and think for themselves – as a result of which, we rallied to 11th place.

By the way, those advocating Benitez must be out of their skulls. Judging by the animosity towards Allardyce, imagine what it would be like if Rafa was in charge and things weren't going well. Doesn't bear thinking about.

The problem is clear. We bought Sigurdsson, Klaassen and Rooney. Sigurdsson cost a packet but still has to play wherever, Rooney returned on big money and Unsie loved him, and Sam doesn't want to upset the most expensive or most famous, so he leaves Davy out of the equation.

I hope the lad sticks with it until Sam has waved goodbye because I am sure that Howe, Silva or Fonseca will want to give him a chance.

Klaassen reminds me of Barca's Rakitic, who plays in a deeper role. Rakitic, who imo wouldn't last five minutes in the Premier League.

There are now a lot more mini-league/knock-out competitions at that level, including the controversial entry of 16 Category A Development sides into the EFL (Checkatrade) Trophy, where they are up against senior sides from League One and League Two.

There is also the Premier League Cup, along with the Premier League International Cup, which sees them pitted against select development sides from European leagues, the English sides all with home advantage (which seems a tad unfair!). But it is a long way from the highly parochial Liverpool Senior Cup and the Lancashire Senior Cup...

I have no idea if these new initiatives are having the desired effect. At the end of the day, it's still "the stiffs" you are playing for, and not the first team, so motivation would I imagine be the biggest barrier to real competitiveness.

This wouldn't have been the case years ago, and he would have definitely been playing a lot more competitive football in the old Central League. It might have still been the stiffs, but he would have been coming up against seasoned pros, or a good few younger players who might be knocking on their first team's door, which doesn't really seem to be the case anymore.

I know it's not the first team, but at least this level of football might have just been enough to motivate him, whilst he came to terms with English football maybe.

Allardyce is equally as egotistical and appalling but corrupt as well. Well done the fools who appointed them.

I can't believe Davy Klaassen hasn't been used more by the three managers who have been in charge of Everton this season. Yes, he hasn't impressed when played, but he hasn't had a decent run; it's been stop-start – and the same applied to Sandro.

Niasse had the same experience until he was finally given some scope and he hasn't done too badly... lots don't rate him but, when he leaves Everton, the club will make a good profit on him. We might eventually make good profits on Klaassen and Sandro if we persevere with them instead of writing them off.

There is no way he is ahead of Walcott, Sigurdsson, Rooney, Bolasie or even Davies for a place in the attacking midfield. Even from his Ajax days, he certainly doesn't look like a player capable of bossing the game and creating chances for others from the centre of the park, nor is he able to play out wide.

To me he looks like a grafter that has tidy control and can get forward to support attacks; very well suited to a side that played two forwards who can make space for him. Suggesting he could play in defensive midfield, where he would have to put his foot in and make a tackle, is madness, he has neither the strength to win the ball nor stamina to play that position for 90 minutes.

I wish nothing against the lad, not his fault he was signed. Was he a back-up plan in case we never got Sigurdsson? In any case, I think he will be gone in the summer, and we should rightly focus our attention on replacing Schneiderlin, finding a left back and a centre half, and an improvement on Bolasie as, even pre-injury, he looked inconsistent at best.

Martinez wanted to play open, attacking football but he never had the players of sufficient quality to achieve his and our ambitions. We are conceding goals at the same rate under Allardyce without an iota of flair or decent attacking intent.

IMO, we should be starting Bolasie and dropping Rooney to the bench or bringing on Bolasie as first change for Rooney at half time. Wayne has been a top player but now he cannot play in the Premier League for a full hour.

We will not score goals without intent down both flanks and a striker with support. We must play both Walcott and Bolasie with one of the four strikers, especially in home matches. We have to choose from Tosun, Calvert-Lewin and Niasse to front those two wide men. Flooding the midfield certainly is not the answer to our scoring drought. Bite the bullet and drop Rooney or take him off at half time. Sigurdsson was bought to do the Number 10 job so give him a run.

I never suggested that he play as a defensive midfielder but to play as he did at the Dutch club behind the strikers.

As for him not having the strength to put his foot in and make a tackle and not lasting longer than 60 minutes, well that hasn't stopped our top earner playing in midfield for the last few months.

He was not average – he was abysmal. I hope he can show us that he is a good player in the near future but, at the moment, he is not worth a start.

Sam fucking Allardyce... manager of our beloved club. Jesus, EFC have employed more tits than Hooters.

Rooney is good for 60 minutes, but becomes a liability if he plays longer.

Sigurdsson is playing as a forward.

For me, Klaassen should be given a go. Maybe, just maybe, he can pass a ball forwards and we can actually attack a team.

Gueye, Davies, Klaassen or Rooney.

Subs from Baningime, Grant, and Vlasic.

He didn't keep Wigan in the top flight for 4 seasons, he took over them when they had finished 9th (or something similar) and then each year under Martinez they finished in a lower position until eventually going down – ie, his tenure made them worse each season.

Please don't give me Silva next either as he is just the next Martinez.

Klaassen hasn't had a fair crack and I sense in lieu of the Tosun saga, (none of us, know – who, how, why, when, because etc) it's a blanket shut down on perceived failings whilst in charge by Sam. There's no honest feedback and it's all bull, smoke screens.

Talk about treating people decent and fair and a so called person of the people; Sam is showing all signs of delusion and this will end up with another mega ego boost 㾶M pay off, mid May 2018, which, Id say is nailed on.

If we get 5 shots on goal or 5 attempts on goal at Turf Moor, it will be a miracle.

Seen some bad and really bad teams, the club at the moment reks, and the pong is strong, and any one who supports EFC, and is honest can't deny it.

Saturdays at GP need to have a buzz and belief of positive ness rather than, default crap game due to rank performances on the Park, and none of us knowing what is going on inside the Boardroom. I wonder if the famous deal table is still in use or has been cast aside?

Klaassen deserves a chance, and I sense soon the fans will make their views known, as the next few games we will need miracles to get any points.

Like the weather, Groundhog football, Saturday beckons.

As someone else pointed out, he would get the same amount of money as he would (heaven forbid) if he saw out his 18-month contract. He has lost the dressing room, lost the peripheral players, lost the fans, and seems to have scant regard by Moshiri if all is to be believed.

This is his last job before retiring in the sun, a bit like Ray Winston in 'Sexy Beast' (fantastic film btw).

He's persuaded out of 'retirement' to pull off one more huge robbery. Lure him down to Bramley-Moore, and build a floating restaurant on him. Call it 'The Gravy Boat' in his memory.

If they are all as crap as we are told, who signed them? And why are they still at my club?

The club (this generation of board and Stake holders – sponsors etc) needs to learn what honesty means.

Does anyone believe anything that comes out from the club, via the media?
.

Allardyce is immaterial though, even if he's going to screw Moshiri in the same way Koeman did in the compo stakes, lessening our spend-ability in the summer and beyond as a consequence for us fans to endure. What is material is the person(s )who appointed him. He needs to be booted or, if it was Moshiri alone, he needs major help from someone clued-up before signing the next guy, none of whom are currently employed at Everton.

The person(s) who've signed so many duffers and failed to sign players in positions anyone with eyes could see we needed also needs to be identified and dismissed and, if Moshiri is serious about ending the hugely expensive squandering of his/our money, he really should have been thinking about the viability of the entire "coaching" team embedded by Kenwright at Finch Farm too.

That, naturally, should turn his mind towards the contribution to his spectacular financial losses by his, erm, trusted, chairman of the board.

Klaassen has never been given a decent run of games to allow him to assimilate himself into the English game. It seems to be a trend in the modern game to give a player one or two games (a la Tosun) and if they don't display world class form immediately, they are written off as flops.

No way can you assess a player based on the limited game time people like Klaassen, Tosun, Sandro and Vlasic have had. I mean game time as in a run of maybe a half dozen games, not a few substitute appearances where it's much harder to make a true impression.

If we are ever going to get a settled team of players who understand the way their team mates play and work with them to produce playing relationships, something has to change, starting with the removal of the dinosaur in charge.

Allardyce has even worse man-management skills than Koeman, and that is a hell of a thing to say. A good manager does all he can to keep all his players onside, bolsters their confidence and their egos, but Allardyce, like Koeman, is so full of his own crap that he thinks it's acceptable to denigrate and run down his own players at every opportunity. All in the name of deflecting blame from himself for his pathetic attempts at managing a squad far better than any he has previously managed.

I wish Moshiri would wake up to reality, realise we won't be relegated and got rid of Allardyce now, before every decent player we have submits transfer requests in the summer. I don't care who he appoints as caretaker, we can win enough points to guarantee safety over the next ten games and he can use that time to start recruiting a real, forward-thinking manager who can drag us kicking and screaming into the world of the modern game.

The usual queue on here to offer criticism of the manager, board, transfer policy, etc. Beyond parody. Nobody knows who pushed who for his signing.

Let's suppose it was Koeman pushing the signing. Was it the board's fault for agreeing? Was it Walsh's fault for either agreeing he was worth it or not saying he was crap?

Answers don't matter if you just want a pop.

Yet he can't get anywhere near our rather mediocre midfield?

He may lack the pace and strength needed in this division though he does have great vision and a good first touch. He could do well in a team full of movement and pace. Slot him in behind a front three of Walcott, Niasse and Lookman and I think he would do well given a run of games. Not gonna happen this season though. If ever.

Now remind me again, what's Allardyce's best points total in the Premier League? How many tens of points is that behind Martinez and his 72?

Can anyone name an Everton manager who can beat 72 points in a season, other than the great Howard Kendall?

Can anyone name an Everton manager who got to two cup semi-finals in one season, other than Howard Kendall?

Can anyone name an Everton manager who can beat Quarter Finals of any European Competition, other than Howard Kendall?

And he achieved that in less than three seasons? And Sam Allardyce is a better manager? You need your head checked.

"Allardyce, asked for comment on Klaassen, tells it like it is. I've never met a fan who has argued that Klaassen is worth a slot and three managers agree.

"The usual queue on here to offer criticism of the manager, board, transfer policy, etc. Beyond parody. Nobody knows who pushed who for his signing."

In answer to 1, perhaps you should get out a bit more, which is roughly what Dave at 82 states. Man-management is knowing what to say and when, not telling the brutal truth (or what you believe to be) and destroy someone's confidence, or a relationship forever. Think of the correct thing to say when the missus asks "Does my arse look big in this dress?"

We have played the worst football in living memory this season (I'm late 50s), so of course we are going to queue on here to lambast all the above, because it isn't just Allardyce, it's the whole club from top to bottom.

This website is essentially a fans forum, so when the going is tough, expect a shitstorm. What do you want people to do, only come on with platitudes when (if ever) we play superbly again, and in the meantime say nothing?

If you feel so strongly about Allardyce doing a great job, with a superb board, coaching staff, Director of Football et al, why don't you write an article about it and submit it to Lyndon and Michael for publication.

If there's something out there that you can see which I – and several more on here – can't, which exonerates all the above from the fume on here, I await to be educated.

Or are you related to Little Sam?

Physically he is average. Athletically he is slow. Technically he looked like a championship player.

Ajax fans might rave about him. They rated Heitinga too. The Dutch League is not much better than the Scottish Premier League. The Dutch national team is as bad as it's ever been and can't even qualify for a major tournament.

People are clutching at straws trying to claim that we have some some under-rated superstars being inexplicably kept out of the first eleven for no apparent reason.

Our squad is shit. This despite investing a small fortune on it over the last 2 years. It is worse than it was last season. We've sold better players than we have bought and there is only one direction you'll go in if you keep doing this.

It then got way worse as the players eventually stated in the second half of season two, saying they, and not Martinez, had decided to revert to "the old Everton" style of play to win a series of matches in, from memory, March/April to stave off any slim chance of relegation.

And so to season three where it was obvious to all (well maybe all but one) that relegation was edging ever nearer as it had done to Wigan in every season he "managed" them.

You study the stats, Steve, and make a good job of basing your opinions around them, but the fact with Martinez is that, apart from one season managing another bloke's team, he always did worse points-wise than the season before. Tragically we're enduring a never-ending cycle of the same it seems, despite a helluva lot of spending.

Hopefully the next what-a-manager is chosen without any influence at all from anyone still employed by Everton Football Club.

You label Klaassen dreadful after a handful of games, so if Tosun gets snubbed too, that must mean he is dreadful too then I'm guessing?

If Tom Davies is snubbed next season is he dreadful?

Whilst the likes of Davies, Schneiderlin and Gueye have had many games to show something but nothing, Klaassen is labelled dreadful after 5 starts in a team full of newbies in August!

"Can anyone name an Everton manager who can beat 72 points in a season, other than the great Howard Kendall?"

How about Harry Catterick, I know he had 2 points for a win but with 3 points he would have had 86 and 95 points in his Championship seasons. Martinez, with 2 points for a win, would have had 51 points.

And I do know that Catterick had 42 games a season.

Barkley has now gone and I suspect the others will be gone soon, hopefully followed by Allardyce who has been as poor as the product he has put out.

The Niasse affair under Koeman was unbelievable. Sure the lad has shortcomings but not to give him a squad number at that time was somehow a foreboding of the bad to times to come for the club.

Sounds like Osman, he did okay though. He hasn't been given any kind of chance – everyone in those first few months was shocking.

He needs game time and will probably get it when Fat Head gets the boot (and big payoff) in May.

He's had 13 appearances in all comps and I don't remember a good one. You can tell watching someone whether they are a player or not and he isn't (in my opinion).

I already have my doubts about Tosun but he's only played a couple of times and had a sub appearance. Time will tell.

You say yourself that Davies had shown 'nothing' despite playing a lot so you've answered your own question about whether he is any good (in your opinion) surely?

Why else would the likes of Garbutt, Baningame, Lookman, Vlasic, Klaassen, and Tosun not been given an extended run of games, one already been allowed to go out on loan.

Cannot knock Niasse for his efforts, but as proven, Niasse is a far better player, when he comes off the bench. With that in mind, why not give Tosun a start and use Niasse from the bench? Why not give a Klaassen a run-out in place of Schneiderlin, Vlasic in preference to Bolasie, until Bolasie is back up to speed.

Mix it up; at the moment, we could do no worse but, as mentioned above, it is not in the best interest for Sam to do to well and to be here next season, when he could be sunning in Dubai with a juicy payoff, instead.

Oh, and while we're at it – not that I am defending Allardyce, but he never got relegated. Martinez on the other hand ......

[Selective use of statistics.]

Still, the Everton midfield has also been pretty weak and I can only imagine that Allardyce just doesn't rate the guy at all but he must be getting paid big money for sitting on his behind.

I don't think Allardyce will be kept on after this season. There is little point to starting next season without a new man in place, especially as Allardyce has proved he really hasn't a clue.

Everton under Moyes and Burnley under Dyche were flattered by the fact neither had / have money to spend on big name players, which meant they had to have one decent player in each position, but nothing to back the first 11 up, which forces them to shut up at the back and hope to nick a goal on the break.

Moyes trying to do the same at Man Utd went down like a boring lead weight, so why is it good enough for Everton? Dyche's style is old-fashioned and football has now moved on, so it's important that we swerve Dyche, as his style is never going to win Everton trophies.

I think you guys talk him up in a very romanticised way, but your top managers are much better tacticians than Dyche. We have had a few decades of poor / chancer managers, so its so so important that the next one is the right one. Can we now not talk about managers who have actually won something? That should give a manager promotion to a big club like ours. Mourinho, Guardiola, Conte, Klopp didn't get promoted to their current clubs by not winning anything.

The top 6 clubs wouldn't have Dyche, so why is he good enough for us? An honest, hard working Manager, but old fashioned in his tactics, and certainly not for us.

All the top managers have a blueprint and a formula that they take to every club they manage and only tweak this formula to combat different styles they will play against. We are desperate for this at Everton.

For me, only Fonseca or Conte (if he is shown the door), will do for me, but Dyche?? Please, please, no.

I could be wrong but I am sure Steve Burtenshaw was in charge of at least one of the semi-final legs against Bolton... maybe even both.

Sean Dych has not won for 12 games. That may change on Saturday of course.

Allardyce Lite for me.

Sean Dyche has got Burnley promoted twice to the Premier League and will keep them there for the 3rd season this time. Yes, they did get relegated under him but he got them back up straight away. Moyes never got Preston into the Premier League (when apparently he was young and hungry for success), then bizarrely gets the Everton job.

Sean Dyche's only crime at Watford was not being Italian and, as we know, Moyes has been sacked 3 times since leaving Everton and stank the place out as Sunderland manager. West Ham have too many good attacking players to go down, but no way will they keep him next season. He's also being helped at West Ham by having Stuart Pearce and Alan Irvine.

David Moyes (as a manager) will always be an uninspiring loser (even though financially very rich). Nearly 25 games at Anfield and no wins says everything.

Everton in 2002 were a big club and hadn't had a wealthy backer in a very long time. Burnley are not a big club would quietly argue that a consistent stay in the Premier League is all they ask for. The average price of a Premier League player in 2002 was probably around ٢m, but for the same player today, you are looking at 㿀m. The stakes are so much higher.

However, the way Moyes and Dyche set teams up are very very similar, extremely tight defence, whilst trying to nick a 1-0 win by scoring on the break. It's never exciting to watch, and not what I want our Everton to employ.

What you have to consider, Joe, is that, a Dyche Managing Chelsea, or Liverpool, or Man City, would never win anything with his style of football. It works perfectly at a team like Burnley.

Let's stop fantasising about what a Manager has done in 6-12 months, as that is so very short sighted, and look at what a Manager has won in their career, then decide who we want to entrust our great club with.

For me, I never wanted Martinez, and I wanted Koeman even less. I didn't want Everton to gamble on a Manager that got Wigan relegated after winning the FA Cup. I certainly didn't want a Koeman that had been in Management 13 years and only won a cheap cup in Holland and the Spanish cup. Neither of these managers screamed ambition.

Martinez was the biggest blagger ever to manage a game, and Koeman saw us as a pub team whilst waiting to for the Barcelona job to become available.

My brother went the semi at Burnden Park, he said all sorts were being thrown in the Everton end, the most bizarre being a ham shank bone.

I can imagine the pace of our league being too fast for a player, but certainly not strength. You only have to look at players like David Silva. Pedro is 5ft-5in, Hazard at 5ft-6in, so it's not all about build.

Read it again. You make my point. Thread about Klaassen. I don't rate him, three managers didn't/don't, nobody in pre-match discussions here or abroad, on coaches to games and anywhere else has ever made a case to me for his inclusion.

So there you go.

Second point is that people post here off topic using Klaassen's purchase, lack of game-time, failure to develop, etc etc to blast everyone they blast on other threads.

Given their fixations, it's maybe others who need to get out a bit.

Cheers, mine's a pint.

I don't mind buying fellow blues a pint- with a few exceptions – so drop in The Winslow sometime and we'll pick a new board, DoF and manager. Then, whoever's fault it is, we've got it covered. And I'll get you a pint.

He reminds me of Osman (and yes Naismith), not fast enough or strong enough to be a Premier League starter these days. Good footballing brain and can link play well but never going to command midfield. That's what we need.

I loved Ossie but he wouldn't play the number of games he played for us now because the game has moved on. If he sits in midfield and we have Calvert-Lewin, Lookman, Niasse, Walcott, Bolasie bombing up and down always making runs – he could suit that style.

Under Sam, no chance and ultimately just not good enough. It's a shame but time he moved on back to Holland or Spain so he can play and pass, not run and tackle.