Allardyce: Players deserve credit for what they have achieved

He needs to take a good long look at our motto when he"s closing the door on the way out.

We are not even sure to finish 8th - Leicester have two games left, we have one game left and they are 5 points behind us.

If we were 12th he'd be looking for recognition for taking us into the "Top Twelve".

All last summer's optimism... this is how we finish.

And I thought the Dutchman had a problem with the truth.

He alludes to his own achievements as being recognised but the players deserve some too.

It's all blather to keep up his image as a successful manager that can keep your team safe in the premiership. There is big money at stake and this PR doublespeak actually works.

I expect the rumours to intensify in the coming days that we are in talks with our next manager.

Sam Allardyce will be gone next week a few hours after the West Ham game.

We failed to beat any of the top 7 home or away, I honestly can't recall the last time that's happened either, so another stat that goes down very nice!!

How Allardyce can even mention the word “achieved “ in this complete monstrosity sums up Everton as a club!

A brief blot on the history of Everton will shortly be eradicated - if not from memory - and hopefully this has been the fall before the rise for us. Absolutely no way is he here next year, he clearly knows it and thank the Lord for that. Lets just hope Mosh can show some true ambition and at the same time attract the calibre of manager/coach (or whatever we want to call it) that we aspire to.

We will lose to West Ham, nailed on, and so ends, and good riddance to, this season.

Admittedly, both of them care, and in Davies case in particular I am happy to give him time and certainly aren't getting on his back. Both need to up their games (if they can, a big question for both) if they are to be mainstays of Everton FC for me.

In the case of Tom, Ross Barkley got a real hard time from a minority of fans. maybe that was because expectations were higher, I don't think Tom is anywhere near as talented a player as Ross. Even at Ross' worst. Jury is out for me on him. Don't know if I ever see him as an international player...

With Rooney despite flourishes in his early season performances, and them goals against West Ham, he has been pretty anonymous for us. I also believe any credit for this season also evaporated with his off the field antics what demonstrated a lack of professional responsibility. Think Wayne has to accept a reduced role next year.

Sam has done what we brought him in for and although it's been ugly I'm sort of grateful for that. If we keep him I reckon we'd maybe have a chance of a top-five finish but at what price.

The January transfers were decent so could he evolve if we were to bring in about four more. Doesn't sound like he has any more control than Koeman had as he appeared critical of the Tosun signing.

The management and the coaching staff must take a big responsibility for this as I think if a lot of the players were with other teams they would be performing much better.

We need to develope a style that the players are comfortable with and try to get the best out of them. We need to be more adventurous and at least try to get more shots on goal per game. After that we need to get rid of the players who are not up to it.

I firmly believe that with the current managerial team we will be fighting relegation year after year and our style of playing will not improve so we need to say thank you big Sam and cronies but we will not be needing your services anymore.

Goodbye and good riddance.

It is the fact that his football is incredibly dull, while being relatively effective, combined with the collective fear he will remain in post beyond this season that results in some unsavoury views being expressed: Evertonians by and large have more class than this.

It is particularly galling to listen to pundits, in between betting adverts, saying before games we should be grateful to Lardiola for saving us, then after ninety minutes of dross, talk about how shite the team performed and how hard it is to watch: I imagine the likes of Hoddle and Ferdinand do not need to sacrifice and prioritise actual money to have the privilege of enduring these wonders.

When the premier league started had won more titles than Manchester United and Allardyce will never be the way back.

8th is not an achievement.

Abject disdain for the club I have supported for years; no heart, no soul, a feeling of let the inevitable happen, I then thought I am not being paid thousands of pounds a week to work like them. I am one of the poor suckers just paying to go and support my club!

To say that the team were under committed lacked leadership or shape and planning is to state the obvious. We are a club of so so many mediocrities in Players who are just not good enough I highlight Bolasie.

I thought he was embarrassing when he did get the ball he fell over or passed it to the opposition in the first half we were playing with 9 men.

It was not only Bolasie who was dreadful in possession Gueye, Davis very wasteful, Even Shamus was running around in circles.

I could not believe the celebrations by little Sammy at the goal I was embarrassed it was daylight robbery and anyone with a bit of a class would have acknowledged our good fortune in getting an undeserved equaliser rather than carrying on as if the had just watched Messi scoring another hat-trick.

A poor poor day for Everton FC.

Allardyce I just do not know where to begin the contempt and dislike I feel for this individual is such that without every other word being foul, I cannot put it into words!

You have got to wonder at the mentality in football when watching the interviews later on BT Sport and hearing Hoddle saying "the fans are not coming to be entertained — if they want that, the should go to a theatre" ... Unbelievable!!!

Evertonians are not fucking idiots Sam.

This is the worst set of players I've seen in an Everton shirt for many years. Absolutely second-rate from top to bottom. Second-rate players, second-rate manager. Eighth? I'd be amazed if we finish that high next season.

I said at the time of this mans appointment he would bring a toxic atmosphere to the club run our best young talent to exile (undoing years of hard work) and have us playing a brand of football more akin to Rugby league

Well I stand corrected I would not insult Rugby league to compare it to our brand of " agricultural" football

The problems at club run MUCH deeper than him believe me but yesterday for the first time although I had suspected this for a long time ( and I maybe hammered for saying this) I saw that the fans and their apathy is as much to blame also Sorry

However, partly what I was trying to say, badly I think, is that the support needs to be more vocal and visible to show our feelings both ways good and bad.

A number of TWs tried hard to get a protest going by leaving on 78 minutes yesterday and although some did leave it was not particularly noticeable. I left on 78 so cannot comment regarding how many stayed until the lap of appreciation. Perhaps there are better ways of organising such a protest, I don't know but like you I was quite shocked at the general apathy yesterday. Surely, of all the home games this was the one that we can expect a decent performance from the players. Apparently, Allardyce did not join in with the players - I think that is a sign he will be gone and knows his fate, but unforgivable if not.

I would also like to have seen much stronger rejection by the support of the dross being served up, we missed an opportunity to vent.

So for me whoever if anyone replaces Allardyce please not Eddie Howe.

Forget the 78 it was an admirable attempt by the genuine keepers of the club to draw a line in the sand and set example, However the fans in the corner jumping about when we jammed that last minute goal will get the mediocrity that they so readily celebrate handed to them on a plate by BK and have done so for 30yrs

I understand people who brought kids to the game would not want to leave however the grown adults without kids walking out would set a wonderful example to the next generation who have seen nothing but stinking football lies and false horizons that you can not only voice distaste with your mouth but more importantly vote with your feet should you not like being the eternal losers

If the same was happening across the park their would be phone-ins, protests, banners n most probably public disburbances

You call in a local jobbing plumber. He's not far off retirement but he knows how to stop the sewage and other detritus slopping all over the place. He fixes the burst with some masking tape. You know the pipes won't be able to last another winter given his temporary fixes. However, you just about get through the rest of the winter relatively unscathed. The fixes aren't pretty but they work. No worries, you know the system needs a complete overhaul in the summer, redesign, new pipes laying etc.

Now, do you retain the jobbing plumber to do the major overhaul required?

Here is Martínez first two seasons in the Premier League:
P76 W 18 D 24 L34

Here is Eddie Howe's
P75 W 20 D23 L32

I can't honestly imagine the football being any better or the fans being very tolerant or patient under Dyche than we are currently witnessing under Bisto.

The question fans need to ask themselves is

“Do you want to see attractive attacking football where the team at least remotely looks set up to score goals, it might result in leaky defences but at least it will be attractive to the eye”

Or.

“Do you want granite workmanlike performances that is set up to merely stop opponents scoring therefore sacrificing any entertainment levels or hopes of having a go against the top 6 clubs”?

Fans who will say both are getting way too far ahead of themselves and not actually seeing that in front of their eyes is not exactly an Everton team blessed with outstanding quality.

We have a mixture of ageing players that are currently getting squeezed of their last embers and a bunch of kids that frankly aren't as good as everyone thinks they are, I heard people last summer saying “sell Lukaku because DCL will score 20 League goals”.

If we are putting faith in a new manager completely altering this crop of players next season into the perfect machine then they will be in for a shock.

Slate Eddie Howe or Silva but I don't see Wenger or Conte or Klopp knocking the door down to manage Everton and Fonseca could go either way if he got the job.

It would be the same with Fonseca, would fans start questioning why he doesn't refer to Everton as “we”?

I honestly don't think whoever gets the job will be unanimously popular given what's available and no doubt come October we will be hearing the same catcalls for his departure from certain quarters when the defence/attack isn't working.

It's no good just frittering away £30 or £40 million on average players again that aren't the next level because whoever is in charge will be posed with the same restrictions.

Careful investment and clever scouting will be needed more than ever this summer (you hear that Walsh?).

We'd be better to watch, not convinced he'd take us significantly further.

I doubt there'll be many who would agree that he's worthy of consideration as our next manager but I see something of the Howard Kendall mk 1 in him. He would need time but in any event it would be refreshing to have a manager who relates well to players, gets the best out of them individually and as a team, and in his public appearances comes over as modest, self-deprecating and totally committed.

Apparently we should be grateful for the efforts of the players - what effort ffs. If I had performed the way this lot has, with the odd exceptions and we all know who that is - I would be back at the jobcentre pronto. Oh and no one would have clapped me. Nah this season has been a disgrace from start to finish. The Board - totally inept, The Management and coaching staff clueless about how to set up a team and play a set style. The players - they didn't play end of. Scouting network - should be disbanded and set up again with new leadership. Leadership - totally lacking in all departments. Only once did I see a player come out and give his all for 90 minutes - Coleman on his 1st game back. Pathetic the lot of them and we should be grateful. No, the only people who should be grateful are those earning big fat salaries. Never have so few. earned so much, for so fn little. Allardyce OUT !!!!!!!!!!

I wouldn't mind Eddie Howe, Conte, Sean Dyche, Wagner.

Just get rid of Kenwright, Ferguson, Rooney, and last but not least Allardcye

Get out of our club, please.

These two are as far apart as you can get. Howes teams quite simply attack and they attack with a purpose. Martinez had the most brainless idea of how football should be played, He was all about possession without any real purpose. He inherited two swashbuckling full backs when he took over, but within a season he had rendered both of them impotent, He wanted possession, that's all, because he didn't have the knowledge and creativity to go any further. His teams generally squandered possession without getting out of their half . Attacking coach ? My Arse.
His cup run had just about every star aligned too. Yes they beat us at the old lady - aided and abetted by Phil Neville, but they struggled to overcome, a division one Bournemouth a non league Macclesfield and were also drawn against Lowly Huddersfield and had the unusual good fortune to play a championship side n the semi - Hardly the stuff of legends.
People talk about Martinez's first season, but within eighteen months we had gone from a team regularly challenging top six, to stinking out grounds up and down the country - the clamour to get rid became almost hysterical. Moshiri had very little choice.

Those comparing the two would do well to think about what they are saying. Since that unlucky defeat Howe has not only been promoted twice, but he has kept what is effectively a division 1 club in the top flight, playing fast attacking football. Martinez by contrast has been relegated and unceremoniously dumped.

Comparison ? there isn't any. Those who welcomed Martinez here with open arms did so because they didn't give any thought to the mast they were nailing there colours to.

I find it difficult to believe how people can support Martinez, apologise for Koeman and call for the Night king to be given more time . .but the thought of employing a bright young manager who has defied all the odds by staying in the top flight, playing attractive football for the smallest club in the top two divisions, makes their blood run cold.

Lets get another wagon circler. We wont go anywhere, but the masochist's will be besides themselves knowing the agony will be prolonged

The only similarity I can see between Howe and Martinez is that they've managed small clubs in the PL, playing what is regarded as attractive football. We know what we watched under Martinez after his first season, but it amazed me how many people told me how 'attractive' Martinez's football was.

We know that Martinez managed a relegated team and ultimately wasn't up to managing Everton. We don't know whether Howe can or not. I can see the arguments in favour; his team plays fast attractive football, his players talk about how he improves them, his team has drive and energy. They also ship goals and lose games.
If he joined us, I'm sure I'd look forward to watching our games again. My hunch is that he'd lose more than he'd win. I know your hunch is different and if he joined us I'd be delighted if you were proved right.

I'm curious about your argument that our choice is Howe or a 'wagon-circler'. Is it really that stark? Is he the only manager we can get that can play vaguely attacking, winning football? You could be painting yourself into a corner there.

And a large dose of good ol fashioned common sense. Round pegs in round holes. Too predictable in '86? Cash in on Lineker, strengthen in defence and give more game time to Inchy.

Not like the current set up ofcourse. Who cares if we needed a left back and CF when the season started? 3 no 10s and a 3rd choice RB would do just fine

Never underestimate the value of a top keeper.

And I'm saying that while acknowledging Howard's brilliant man-management and often-overlooked tactical tweaks.

We are an average mid table premiership club whom have not won a trophy for over twenty years and it shows. If the team had started better this season we probably would have had a europa place. That's what we need, better starts and a few years qualifying for the europa league to show consistency. This will show as a squad we can compete in all competition's. The squad is to light weight to compete. Europa league this season proved that.

The board need to sit down and draw up a plan for getting into the top four. A three year plan. Being in the top seven by christmas each year. Get the top five clubs looking over there shoulders at us. Consistency is key over three years or more.

Our current manager is not the man for that plan. A younger manager whom has experience of taking clubs into europe whom is hungry to succeed is needed. Yes more money will have to be spent but consistency is key. Next season has no european football. So if the right manager is chosen. Give him a realistic plan of getting this club to the champions league and more competitive in the cups.

No I'm not painting myself into a corner, nor will I be painted into one. I would happily have any of a hole host of attacking minded managers . .but Its Eddie Howe who you and others come on regularly to dismiss and you're reasoning seems to be based solely on a hunch.

Working on a shoestring does not put you in a position to attract top class defenders. That right now is all that stands between Eddie Howe bringing regular European football to tiny Bournemouth. His team doesn't concede a lot because he attacks. His team concedes a lot because when the have to defend, his bargain basement defenders are not quite up to keeping out some of the worlds most expensive attackers.

I bet if he was given 30m to spend on a defender he would not have spent it on the Burnley Egremont

"the main reason we lost the title in 1986 and regained it the year later was the absence and return of Big Nev."

Sorry Paul, but Southall missed the last ten League games through injury. Mimms conceded just 4 goals in those games. We won 6, Drew 2 and lost 2, the defeats coming at Oxford and Luton. Hardly Mimms fault. The previous 10 games saw us concede 8 goals but 8 wins and 2 draws..

So in the absence of complete evidence, most people go on a mix of hunch, selective/non-judgemental memory, confirmation bias and value judgements.

I'll use a punting analogy. I look at collatoral form, ground, jockey, trainer, draw, track and then remember that it's animals running across a field. So there's a sizeable element of the four factors I mentioned earlier when I make a decision on betting.

I suspect the same happens when football clubs recruit a manager. Ferguson's hunch was that Moyes could cut it. Kenwright's hunch was that Martinez would step up from Wigan (he was right for a year!) Other clubs have (in)correctly had a hunch that the manager with no PL experience would do a great job.

I've met scouts in a major club who had an extremely rigourous methodology when sizing up players. They told me that for all that, they'd have to 'take a view' on signing him.

Yes, I know integrity doesn't win trophies but he has ability, courage and vision. For me, I'd have him as our coach right now. Sam Allardyce or Eddie Howe?

Actually, that is not a fair choice. How about Allardyce or my next door neighbour's ridiculous poodle?

Christopher that's not really an argument I'm afraid. Martinez's record was with Wigan and Howe's is with Bournemouth.

For the size of those clubs, who both belong in League 1 on many metrics, they are excellent Premier League records.

It is entirely fallacious to assume that:

a) Howe's record with Everton would be the same as his record with Bournemouth, or

b) Howe's record with Everton would be the same as Martinez's.

So by all means rule out Eddie Howe because you don't rate him or don't think he would adapt (he might) but don't fall into the modern trap of whacking in some misapplied numbers and considering it proof.

If Howe was to be named manager I'd be fully behind him. I think players like Klaassen and Sandro, Walcott, Lookman and even Davies would be able to shine. I just don't believe in the mantra that Howe is the limit to what we can attract. It's as simple as that to me. But good God, I'd be ecstatic with him if it meant Allardyce is gone. And we would have to commit a period of a few years for him to shape this team as well as the youth set up.

What I was really saying was that Howard knew we had another issue: Lineker was all pace and no touch, which affected our style and attacking variation. With Mountfield's injury, we were also lacking defensive cover.

He solved two problems in one stroke:Lineker's sale generated the cash to strengthen the team.

And subsequently, the goals were shared around, but what really helped was we really kept a tight ship.

It was simple common sense which is overlooked these days in an era of DoFs looking to sign players en masse to justify their existence.

Obviously their squad as a whole costs far less than ours but in the past few years they have had a bit of cash to spend as have most PL teams.

I think Howe has done a great job at Bournemouth but he wouldn't be my top pick. I'd rather a manager who has done well at more than one club. There are a few cases of managers who have succeeded at one club having had time (and board/fan patience) to really carve a team and an ethic but have then struggled at other clubs after leaving (Moyes, Curbishley etc). Howe may well not be one of them, but it does concern me. He'd still be in my top ten but for me Silva has worked at a variety of clubs, has won cups and leagues and has improved play at every team he's managed. Every manager change involves a risk of sorts but Silva looks a surer bet to me for better football and the chance to win something.

Although I agree that a defence needs confidence in their keeper and Nev is the best I've seen, anywhere, I think that Mimms is unjustifiably blamed for the fact that we didn't win the League that season. The rest of the team should shoulder the blame. Losing to Oxford and Luton?
I agree that Nev may have made a difference in the Final though. But we'll never know. I don't know if I'm alone in thinking that Nev might have done better when conceding the Whiteside goal in 85 or did we begin to expect too much from him.

Sad truth is that many recall better times, and this colours our judgement. Everton were a great team with great players and a truly great manager: how we got from there to Lardiola has been well documented and the reality is that Everton is now an irrelevance on the European stage and a foul shambles domestically.

Personally, I would be happy with Howe and would have no problem with him being given five years. Others may feel this lacks ambition and demand a bigger name but is that realistic? Given a choice between Simeone or Howe I would obviously have Simeone but that is not happening.

Next season could be horrible as RS will be stronger and may have won the champions league by then. We are a very long way off competing with them and are currently lead by Sam fucking Allardyce with everything that means. The road back to greatness is long but with Allardyce we will never even find it.

Say what you like, he's done what he was hired to do.

I don't want him as our manager. I don't like the style of football he plays. I think he's a dinosaur. I want a younger, more progressive manager (Or Wenger).

He was always Moshiri's first choice and Allardyce was never wanted for next season. Desperation forced Mosh to hand Sam a longer contract, but I don't believe Mosh has any intention of keeping him. He was brought in to do a job and has done it.
He'll be off and Silva will be in. That's my bet.

So I fully expect Moshiri to again renew his interest in both Silva and Fonseca with Silva being his preferred choice.

Yes he has had a "bit of cash" to spend, but he was the one who generated the cash.
While other managers up and down the country have depended upon the club to back them. The situation is reversed at Bournemouth. They have depended very heavily on the cash he has generated by not only getting them to the Premier League, but keeping them there for season after season.

While the Curly Larry and Mo were being backed by the Everton to the tune of 350m + over the past 3-4 seasons, Bournemouth have only been able to give Howe a fraction of the money he has generated by taking the club to a position they have no right to be in.

Howe has not even been mentioned by our club. so these debates about him are purely hypothetical. I just hope he doesn't join the ever growing list of cheeky fucker managers who have "turned us down" . . . without ever being offered the job - That's some list by the way.

My argument here is that many of the people who have apologised. applauded and championed Curly, Larry and Mo are regularly coming on here to dismiss a manager who has achieved more than all three put together without ever feeling the need to revert to zombie football.

Curly achieved our record highest Prem points total in his first season. Stagnated and had to go.

Larry was not given the centre forward he asked for. Lost interest and had to go.

Mo should not have been here in the first place.

What has Howe achieved more than the above three stooges put together?

Genuine question; I don't know his managerial trophy count.

Howe should stay at Bournemouth. Another 2 years of improvements then he'll have proven he can adapt and learn from mistakes. Something Martinez never did.

Dyche should stay at Burnley. He's done better than Howe but play less attractive football, a style I wouldn't want to see at Everton.

That's the hard judgement, finishing higher or playing better. It sounds daft, one should lead to the other but we are witnessing just how difficult it is to get the balance right.

I'll accept midtable for 3 years if we improve players and performances and then look to move on. I can't accept 7th, 8th watching what we currently are, a terrible footballing team.

We seem to be fixated with young, up and coming managers who play attractive football, might win a trophy and potentially qualify for Europe regularly. Let's focus on a senior, established manager who plays atractive football, has won trophies in top leagues and regularly qualified for Europe. And before we hear from the no, never, no way brigade, we can afford them and there are several available this summer.

Regarding Silva I judge on what I see. Yes he plays better attractive football. Yes he seemed to be able to get Hull and Watford players playing to his style in a relatively short time frame which sounds great and we'll done him and his coaching staff for that.

But I see him as a very risky "relegation threat" choice. He seemed unable to change or adapt. When Hull and Watford just needed to stop giving the ball away cheaply in defence and steady the ship week after week the same thing kept happening. When the going for tough, he didn't.

If I thought 3 seasons of him, playing good football and we would be comfortably midtable then yes. It's far more enjoyable to watch than putting up with the current pile. But I worry about him and although I'm prepared to give managers a chance I'm also hoping for more. Silva just doesn't give me any confidence.

Average managers one and all the type I thought we had left behind once Moshiri came on board. We need to give a chance to someone from outside the gravy train of the premier league.

Jardim
Emery
Sarri
Fonseca

These are the types we should be looking at it might be more of a risk but we will never crack the top 4 by making safe appointments. Plus what this season has shown is despite how bad we think are the rest of the league is so poor that 10th is the lowest we could ever feasibly finish, so lets be bold.

The board should thoroughly hang their heads in shame at allowing these kind of abysmal comments being attributed to an Everton manager. They should be coming out and telling it like it is, in that it's been a shocking season with terrible underachievement given the money that was spent and the board will be doing it's up most to not let this kind of situation to happen again. Instead we still have a manager who is throwing out this kind of drivel giving all and sundry the opportunity to say what do the Everton fans expect? Shameful behaviour from all at the club. We fans deserve so much better from those idiots in charge.

My opions are we should have been making contact with managers Months ago in a targeted fashion to sound them out before the likes of Arsenal, Chelsea, Tottenham came sniffing.

Not waiting for the end of the season so move your fingers and get on the blower Mo!

We should be ambitious and ask the questions to top managers e.g. would Simeone etc. fancy it?

Being both ambitious and realistic my choice is Mancini:

1 is attainable
2 is top quality
3 is experienced
4 Premier league and FA Cup winning manager
5 is minimal risk
6 will aim for top 4
7 attract top players
8 respected
9 will not take *ship from players
10 improves football style MASSIVELY.

There are a few other candidates, also Italian, with similar track record but I believe Mancini is more proven to what we need. He took a decent Man City, (not previous winners) and smashed expectations.

He spent money on 4 top drawer players (relatively well known in their own countries ie recent breakthroughs) and challenged for trophies straight away.

That's what I want, that's why Mancini!

Mancini is likely to take the Italy job. Plus his record has been pretty darned patchy since City. His expensive Zenit are currently 5th in a mediocre Russian league. Plus he very much prioritises defense. I've made a few of these points to you before but either you haven't seen them or refuse to acknowledge them. Either way I'm not convinced he's the best fit though he'd probably be an improvement on current incumbent.

I remember him as a decent player, anyone know any more about him as a manager? They make a good case for him in The Times.