Everton set timeframe for second stadium consultation

Bloody hell this is really dragging on this is!

If only you could build a stadium out of hot air.

Saw a fella on the Dock Road yesterday with a wheelbarrow so I think progress could well be under way, although he did have a puncture, and was waiting for assistance!

We need this to happen as we seem to falling even further behind other clubs.

It's taking forever, we can't get the funding, there's no timetable, etc.

We'll be left with a plot of land on the water we can't afford to build a stadium on.

Ugh.

Whisper it quietly but I saw a fella with a shovel and he was tackling the weeds quite well, so you never know this might just happen in the next 50 years!

From wikipedia:
Plans for the project were first announced in 2008 and a planning application submitted in 2009. The project was revised several times and delayed due to objections by conservation groups, and a protracted dispute over a compulsory purchase order (CPO) on existing businesses at the proposed development site. A revised plan was first approved in 2010 by the Haringey Council, and following further revisions, building started in September 2012. Only part of this initial plan was executed, and the construction of the stadium did not commence until 2016 after the CPO dispute had been resolved and a new design approved by Haringey Council.

As we all know, it has only recently been completed. 10 years after the first planning application was submitted.
Initial estimates suggested that it would cost 450 million, but it is rumoured to have cost over a billion.

So, maybe we aren't doing so badly after all and are hopefully learning from Spurs' protracted and costly experience.

It will happen... but not in my life time...

Next season... oh its always next season we might do this or that... but 30 years of mediocrity has undone 80 plus years of our once proud standing of us being a BIG CLUB.

Some argue the merits (stadium too small), a small few are excited, a few bring good humor, and a very large lot are pessimistic. Just like with a young player or manager many commenters are quick to criticize or unwilling to be patient. All we need now is a ToffeeWebber to write "get rid."

Beaurocracy is boring as hell, so yes, the planning stages of any development are boring as hell.

But this fucking modern 24h news junky influence of 'I want it now' drives me nuts. Did anyone here follow the planning process at Spurs' stadium? Did anyone follow the planning process the construction of any stadium in the uk? Thought not. So can you really say we are 'dragging our heals'? You think the Billionaire who has so fat spent 300 million for a squad of Bolasies and Sandros and a couple of mid table finishes is just here to 'fuck us about', that there is no stadium in place. Nah, no interest in profits that man, it's just one elaborate hoax to piss us off. The beourgoisie, not content with surplus-value, now want to torment the lesser clubs in working class cities...the bastards.

Or maybe, just maybe, this shit actually takes a while. And watching the process is really fucking boring, so let's stick to the footy for now there's enough shit, that is actually shit, to the negative about.

This minor development does not represent anything worth going public about now, certainly not this week. Who did they consult last time telling them to go for a 52k capacity anyway, Reds?!

More small time crap from us whilst it seems every one of our rivals is embarking on an unstoppable match to eternal glory! Depressing!

This minor development does not represent anything worth going public about now, certainly not this week. Who did they consult last time telling them to go for a 52k capacity anyway, Reds?!

More small time crap from us whilst it seems eve

An announcement about the second public consultation was scheduled for May. Today is the 9 May and an announcement has been made. Nothing to do with the RS or anyone else.

I don't particularly care where the money's coming from; I'd be more concerned if the club was just relying on the council offer. That they're not indicates they're confident of securing funding, elsewhere.

My main concern is about the proposed capacity. Given that, even with a piss poor team, we've sold out every PL game for 3 seasons in an outdated stadium with poor facilities and 25% of seats with obstructed views and given we have a growing season ticket waiting list I feel 52,000 is far too conservative.

The public consultations are part of the process to obviate any planning stage difficulties. If the club can show their plans have overwhelming public support then this can be used to help overcome any objections.

Time spent before the planning application could well save long delays afterwards.

This is an owner who has put numerous millions into the club. This is an owner who understands that building a new stadium will increase revenue AND increase the re-sale value of the club by I don't know how many millions. I strongly believe he will build a stadium. I also know it will take years.

I know one thing, if we blow this opportunity then we might as well give up as a football club. The one thing that has made our mediocrity palatable has been the fact that our neighbours have largely underachieved in their goal of winning the Premier League. When they start doing well, it shines a great big mirror onto our club. We, the long-suffering fanbase need something tangible from the BMD project to hold onto as well as two successful transfer windows coming up. The more I think about it, the more it hurts how much money Koeman and Walsh lost for us and what a golden opportunity we missed.

Is the stadium going to rise up out of the sea like a big wavey type construction at one end? Or is Danny just taking the piss.

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/everton-stadium-architect-dan-meis-16251359

With what is going on over the park Evertonians are desperate for
Something.

City fans wait for the main course after a league cup starter. The Gobshites and Spurs fans plan a feast in Madrid. Even Arsenal and Chelsea are planning a romantic dinner for two.

Meanwhile, we're still being promised jam. . . tomorrow.

The biggest party in English football history is in full swing and we're trying to look through a crack in the curtains.

The time scale's been on the Everton FC website for about 12 months.

Look under Peoples Project and click on Timescale.

Simples!

A club with a stadium done and dusted with a simple decision. Do we take the debt on?

I work as a site manager so I know a thing or two about the frustration and time it takes to get even simple decisions approved. A project like BMD would normally take 2-5yrs of consultation. Add the fact that its a World heritage site then God alone knows.

Farhad and his team are very brave or very stupid taking this on. I'm not quite sure which.

As all Evertonians I want a world class stadium in an iconic location but. And this is the big one. Can we win something Anything while we wait for Liverpool city council, the world heritage org and anybody else involved to approve the plans?

By the way, I don’t know who is fucking Usmanov, but I’m dreaming of Everton fucking everyone, once the big fella gets involved!

This time the club aren’t fannying around with nice to hears, but are following a proper planning process.

Painful as it is, its worth the time to plan, check, replan, scope and evaluate.

In my job, in a life time of seeing fantastic projects completed and loads that got over the line, late and a massive cost of failure. I could write a book.

Everton, have in this case got a professional approach and are doing their utmost in due diligence. That’s a positive, and going for a second review and feedback, even better.

Theres still is penultimately the final descision,”Go”, or “No Go”, but I believe it will happen, but for me, the big issue, it’s got to be a 60k minimum capacity, which hopefully, will be backed by the consistent sell out for home games, and also the increasing demand and waiting list for new season tickets. This for me must happen, and 60-65k, capacity would be great.

The club must have vision and belief in the Everton fans.

I don’t buy into the upgrade stadium capacity theory, especially on such a small footprint, in terms of space and spare, space, as there is none, at BMD.

As DBB, states, it’s once in a life time chance, and the club must get it right.

For me as an Evertonian, I ll be told I’ve won the lotto, Euro Lotto, and Id not believe them until the money and sign off to prove, was in my hands and statements of confirmation supplied.

A life time generally of suppression in football terms aside to the golden years of the mid 80s, and a few seasons with decent form under Gordon Lee, and Moyses, and I don’t expect the naturals, like new stadium, or stadium upgrade to happen, but the evidence and cost so far indicates that EFC, is very serious about BMD.

Here’s to hope.

For us, it's a case of "sh*t happens" yet again. But let's just suck it in and get on with improving, without sour grapes. RS has had plenty of lucky breaks during the season but have lost only one league game. As most of my friends and associates know, I hate the RS with a passion.
And damn it, my only daughter has married an RS fan!
What could be worse?

I just hope we improve dramatically over the next few seasons before it's too late for me. Hopefully, I'll get to a game or two in September.

Glad to note some, if slow, progress on BMD. We need this to proceed asap.

This is such a huge project and more than just a new stadium for us. The negativity is crazy.

Yes, many large stadia have had long gestation periods, but usually once a site has been secured the process should be quite fluid, provided funding is in place. Outline planning assurances regarding LCC and all Heritage bodies should've been sought as part of the initial studies, and certainly before/during site acquisition.

Why weren't all these issues covered long ago? Surely access and transport are fundamental, very site specific, and should've been covered during the site selection phase (ie long before the dock was first mentioned). So, we can see an apparent schedule, but you have to wonder what it all means beyond a box-ticking exercise or a stalling tactic, given that the consultation process has been split into phases, and already follows several lengthy periods of innactivity.

The "capacity question" also ties into the plausibility of the whole process to date. If the site can only support a 52k stadium for whatever reason, why are we even considering it? How did it pass the first stage as regards suitability? Why wasn't overlapping tier geometry employed (as per preserving/reflecting GP's character) to squeeze more capacity out of a restricted site? At £500m cost for just 52k seats, where is the sliding or full roof to give multipurpose arena potential? How come the club haven't acquired a bigger plot to attract potential enabling development to alleviate costs? Beyond an "On the banks of thd Royal blue Mersey" soundbite, and post card photo opportunity, what is the real incentive for getting into hock to the tune of £500m for just 12k more seats, on a site that might yet be less accessible than our existing one?

Bugger it, just bulldoze Goodison and start again!

All outline design and planning issues can and should be undertaken long before any major commitment. Would you buy a plot of land to build your new home on without making sure you could actually get to it, service it or even build what you want on it?

The club intends to submit a detailed planning application for the stadium in the second half of 2019 and, at the same time, an outline planning application for the redevelopment of Goodison Park.

Earlier this year, Colin Chong, stadium development director said: "There is still much work to do as we develop our plans and seek the views of our supporters and local communities as well as bodies such as Liverpool City Council, the Local Planning Authority and Historic England.

"At this stage, it is important to stress that this is our 'proposed' capacity and it is what we are currently working towards. It is important to emphasise that the final capacity and design will be subject to further engagement and consultation.

"We believe that our approach is the right one because it is commercially and financially sustainable and will mean that, in the long term, we will be able to increase the capacity should there be a demand and requirement to do so.

"Extensive work has gone into assessing the optimum capacity at the point of opening to create the best possible atmosphere for fans and, in turn, supporting the players on the pitch.

"At this stage it is not possible to say if and when any capacity expansion to an absolute maximum of 62,000 would take place. That would also be subject to further design work, fan and community consultation and planning approval."

Stadium architect Dan Meis added: "We know from all of the conversations we've had with fans that they want a stadium that is atmospheric, feels like a fortress and supports the players on the pitch. They also want the Club to be ambitious for the future.

"We believe this proposed approach to design and capacity meets with those aspirations.

"Our design and engineering approach will give us the potential to expand in the future. This will be done if and when we are at a stage where it is financially viable and fits with our key principles."

So, nothing to suggest that the site won't be suitable for future expansion. A proposed capacity of 52,000 to begin with to ensure that it's filled every match and provides the best and most intimidating atmosphere. Then, if it becomes financially viable and clear that we could fill a larger stadium, we expand. Makes sense to me.

The Meis presentations were April 2018. Everton started talking about 52000 towards the end of 2018.

They said this figure was arrived at after consultations with football 'experts' and consultations with the fans. Well, I'm a season ticket holder and shareholder and they never asked my opinion. The capacity wasn't a question at last year road shows. It was only mooted months after they'd taken place.

Goodison could quite easily be expanded to 52000 so if that turns out to be the capacity for B-M I really don't see the point.

Also, a massive 60,000-70,000 stadium with no atmosphere? Not really what ee want either.

Better to have a full capacity stadium, that has the intimidation factor that helps spur the club on the pitch.

Moving to the docks, Everton are goijng to be in the heart of the 'new Liverpool'. The hub of the city for the next few generations, our rivals miles off in ghe distance, let's discuss the positives for fucks sake, lets discuss how this stadium can make us the club that anyone who sets into liverpool.knows about. How this stadium, no mattee the size, is part of our rebirth as the 1° team in the city.

It was said by Meis in answer to a question at his first presentation at St Luke's

John # 87.

Rising sea levels could be a serious issue in future years. I put the question to Meis and he said he was fully aware of this and it would be factored, as much as possible, into the design.

Fran; #88

Current capacity is 39,000 and the club is talking about 52,000 in the belief this would sell out for most games and the final 8000 seats would be the most expensive of the construction costs.
I think the concensus is that 52,000 is far too conservative an estimate based on current demand and waiting lists.
When Goodison had a capacity of 78,000 most games drew far less than this. In fact the highest average was 51,000 in the 1969/70 season. It didn't affect the atmosphere at all.
In a modern ground, ticket sales could be managed so that a below capacity crowd would hardly be noticed.
To settle for 52,000 is to miss the opportunity of a lifetime and to limit our expectations in comparison to many of our rivals.

Of course I'm not missing the point. Any redevelopment of Goodison would have unrestricted view as per the Park End.

My point is that one must question the cost of B-M for a proposed capacity of 52,000, not that the best option is to redevelop Goodison, although it could be done.

Do you think we could fill a 60 or 70 thousand stadium? I don't think we could. That would be more or less doubling our home attendance. Let's hope they get this right. You would hope that the site will attract a lot more neutral visitors than Everton as an area. And yes we need to not put any ceiling on our ambitions.

On the pitch I want us to keep the team together, add some quality, keep the form going and try to win the league next season! We have the capability to give any team a game. So why not.

1970 was a different football world to the one we have, today. Coverage consisted of MotD
and the Football Echo

Blanket media coverage of the PL has created huge numbers of armchair fans but it has also created unprecedented demand from people who actually want to attend the game, in person.

Compare this to our most successful period of the mid 1980s when average attendances for both Everton and Liverpool were less than 35,000.

As has been stated many times, on ToffeeWeb, the fact we have sold out every PL games for 3 seasons, have a season ticket waiting list of over 10,000 which, according to the club, is increasing, have an outdated ground with 25% obstructed views, poor facilities and poor transport links indicates we would easily sell out 52,000 in a new modern stadium within walking distance of the city centre and north/south rail links.

The club has already given this as their reasons for being confident of a 52,000 sell out for every PL game. That is as we stand now and would still leave many excluded and unable to get tickets and allows no potential for future growth.

Given the current figures I feel we would easily fill 55, 000-60000 for most games and all the extra revenue more bums on seats generates, besides the ticket price.

Once the stadium is built don't expect an extension any time soon. I feel that's just a sop to alleviate criticism of a lack of ambition. We should be aiming to compete with the likes of Man Utd, Arsenal and 'Spurs and not Newcastle etc.

Imagine the demand if we also had a side competing at the top end of the table!

We have a once in a lifetime opportunity; let's not waste it

Let’s hope this summer sees more positive signs it will happen. Let’s hope also The Uzbek, joins the club, and helps us catch up, soon, and be competing in Europe every season.

This must be the minimum, after such a big investment at BMD.

Time will tell.

All these things take time. I wish we didn't have to consult anyone and we had a dictator running the club and, given the off-the-wall views of some fans, we could do with one.

For once, let us as Evertonians get behind the club and support the concept of the new stadium and let's all move forward with hope into a new era for our great club.