Carlo Ancelotti appeared for all the world as though he had found home with Everton but, less than 18 months into a 4½-year contract, he is gone. Whether he's not the honourable elder statesman he paints himself out to be in his book, or is simply the embodiment of pragmatism, his departure might not be the worst thing for Everton.
In his book, Quiet Leadership, Carlo Ancelotti paints himself out as a relic of a bygone, more noble age of football; an honourable elder statesman of the game who prizes personal connections and a “family” club environment over the cold business-like world that has consumed many of Europe’s biggest clubs over the past couple of decades. He waxes lyrical about his humble beginnings in rural Italy, his affection for his first love AC Milan and how, “if a manager can find a home that is right for him and the club feel the same way, then who knows where it could lead?”
That home appeared to be at Everton. Visibly impressed with the welcome he received when he attended the home game with Arsenal just days before he would take charge of his first match as the Blues’ manager, he was later greeted with huge banners and a new chant lauding the arrival of “Carlo Fantastico”. The venerated Italian coach had seemingly found the family he had been seeking after a series of short stints at some of the Continent’s biggest clubs ever since his departure from Milan in 2008. Everton, meanwhile, had potentially found a saviour.
Journalists who interviewed Ancelotti were struck by how much affection he had for Crosby where he made his home in the northwest and which provided such an outlet for walks and bicycle rides for him during the COVID-19 lockdown. Given that he and his wife own a second home in Vancouver and intend to eventually retire there, the weather probably wasn’t high on his list of concerns, although we’ll never know how much the burglary of his house and the impact it had on his daughter factored into his decision. You would have thought, though, that he might have let on to the club that he was wavering in his commitment to stay in the area, rather than leave Everton officials somewhat shell-shocked at his sudden departure for Spain.
None of those comforting words he gave fans in TV interviews or press conferences about how he saw himself being around long enough to see the club into their new stadium at Bramley-Moore Dock or the talk of how much he loved his surroundings eventually amounted to much once Real came calling. Neither, it seemed, did that massive £11m-a-year salary he was on at Everton. Perhaps the lure of one more Champions League trophy or claim a first La Liga title, enough to put the gloss back on his increasingly tarnished legacy, proved to be too strong. Whatever the reason, it’s hard not to be left with the sense that he is just as bad as the rest in the modern game; ready to drop everything and leave at the first opportunity when things look a bit more challenging than first thought.
Only a fortnight ago, Ancelotti was laughing off talk that he might return to Real Madrid should Zinedine Zidane step down. Even accounting for the usual managerial deflection of such speculation, that sticks in the craw. This was, after all, the club that sacked him as manager in 2015 after two short years in charge and the one he berated as being part of the Super League just a few weeks ago. There will be a rich irony if Real are, indeed, expelled from the Champions League next season for continuing to cling to the failed proposal along with Juventus and Barcelona.
“I am really happy to stay here. I feel good at Everton and my target is to make Everton better and better every year,” he said – but it didn’t take much for him to reverse course and there are suspicions that his head had been turned before he made such a declarative statement that he would be honouring his contract at Goodison Park.
“Loyalty is paramount. It is non-negotiable,” Ancelotti wrote in his book but he qualified it by saying that, “loyalty is to people, not organisations. For organisations, it’s not personal, only business.” Clearly, there must have been very little loyalty to the people at Everton outside of his backroom staff and there was precious little rapport with supporters who welcomed Ancelotti with open arms. In that sense, perhaps, the pandemic was a significant factor in him not developing an affinity with fans.
You feel that with time and in more normal circumstances — ie, with full stadiums and a routine season free from congested fixture lists and the associated injury niggles — Ancelotti might have forged a real relationship with Everton and genuinely been “touched” by the club in the way that Alan Ball’s famous quote suggests. Or maybe this was always going to be a stepping stone until the next opportunity came up. That’s the thing once trust has been broken, you don’t know what to believe, even from someone who conducted himself with such warmth to supporters during the pandemic.
Perhaps, in time, the way things have played out has been something of a blessing in disguise as it offers Everton another chance to fundamentally reset and end a tenure that wasn’t showing much evidence of progress. When viewed through the lens of some of the worst football served up by any Everton manager in living memory, Ancelotti’s departure may end up being more damaging in terms of the loss of prestige and the profile of player he could attract than where performances on the field are concerned.
Because, even when you factor in the sterility of the matchday experience in empty grounds, Everton under Ancelotti could be utterly abject — bereft of ideas and any semblance of a plan on how to break teams down. It came to be accepted that the priority should be to simply get through what was an unusual season by winning in any way possible but the Blues didn’t do that nearly enough and were horrible to watch in the process.
We’ll never know how Ancelotti might have fared under more normal circumstances. His reign will forever be a “what if?” but, right now, the concern might be less about losing a manager who had looked incapable of addressing an alarming slump in the Blues’ home form, and more over who comes in to replace him.
Once again, the club hierarchy are facing a massive decision and the only saving grace might be that it has arrived at the start of June rather than late July. Marcel Brands and Farhad Moshiri have time to fully weigh what options are open to them, explore their more ambitious targets and then, eventually, select the best person for the job.
As Director of Football, Brands needs to be the one driving it this time within the framework of a long-term strategy. If it isn’t to deliver an instant but sustainable impact, then the emphasis has to be on a hire capable of laying the foundations for lasting competitiveness with a strategy focused on younger, hungrier players who can form the backbone of a successful side or command big fees if necessary down the road.
Ancelotti leaving allows the club to dispense with his more short-term focus, and plan for the long-term, all the while acknowledging that there won’t be any shortcuts to the top. Ironically, Ancelotti and his now-former players may have just blown the only one Everton will get.
Reader Comments (229)
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1 Posted 01/06/2021 at 23:28:36
2 Posted 01/06/2021 at 23:40:47
It was like employing an aging pen pusher of a Chief Inspector for door work at a rough arse nightclub. The basic tenets of maintaining order are the same but the skillsets entirely different.
The fault lies in acknowledgement of what is necessary at this club a delusion of monumental proportions of we're not far off exists at owner level. Managerial appointments come from the "name" rather than what is necessary variety.
It's hugely shit and I don't see it changing
3 Posted 01/06/2021 at 23:53:13
I wonder if there's been a clash of what CA wanted in the transfer market to what we can actually provide for him, just maybe that focused his mind
4 Posted 02/06/2021 at 00:09:20
FUCK RIGHT OFF!
5 Posted 02/06/2021 at 00:10:04
6 Posted 02/06/2021 at 00:14:24
I know a Northern Irish bloke who sounds just like Ian Paisley. No matter what anyone says to him he replies Fuck Right Off. I might call him and ask what he thinks of us getting Steve Cooper
7 Posted 02/06/2021 at 00:26:32
Carlo? I am not upset he has gone but l am fucking angry. What a shitbag he is. £11 million a year on a 4 1/2 year contract? Are you kidding me? He can just walk away? What a fucking tosser.
And yes, maybe Nuno... even possibly Moyes. I had to apologies for suggesting Moyes was the man 18 months ago. Who else is there? Brendan, Gerrard, Beneathus?? Any of these c**ts come into Everton l will never watch a game again.
For now, its over to you Marcel Brands!! Get rid of the dead wood, some of whom he signed. Don't buy injured players. Balance out the squad. Bring in a manager who knows the shape, the formation and atyle he wants to play. Get the best out of the players. Play on the front foot and with passion. That is all
9 Posted 02/06/2021 at 00:34:02
King also claims we are battling with Palace for Nuno. As an out there positive spin, the last I recall us battling to recruit with Palace was for Tim Cahill and that worked out.
11 Posted 02/06/2021 at 00:41:25
On Nuno, would he really rather dance with Parrish with a budget driven by that fanbase? Have some ambition man!
13 Posted 02/06/2021 at 00:43:15
However, the list of managers leaving the club to end up managing the world's best national or club teams is painful. One can only surmise that the underlying issues at the club are so deep its going to take more than a few players replacement. Such is the legacy we have all inherited from the last 20 years of mismanagement off the field. Ancelotti gave up after the players gave in after Christmas. He was no magician, but he just didn't fancy the squad. Too big a job, too much hassle, too much expectation and in the end he gave it away as all too hard.
So what does that say about our club?
Some on here will be glad he has gone, and frankly some of the posts on here in the last few months have been over the top (at both ends I might add) but surely we have to retain our ambition?
Given the lack of depth in a playing squad, a massive rebuild awaits anyone and a huge clearout is needed. I doubt the return of James, I doubt now the sale of much of the squad. As much as it is needed.
A depressing day for the club on one hand, a chance to clear the decks and get it right on the other.
14 Posted 02/06/2021 at 00:49:28
That he feels it'd be better presumably for his "legacy" to step into the furnace at Madrid than the alternative - stay here, add the players the squad needs in this windows and put us at the top of the table - speaks volumes.
The confirmation of the suspicion that the Ancelotti "project" was yet another misguided, ill prepared and unsuitable one for this football club obviously also both hurts and is worrying for the future as well.
More resources, opportunities and time have been wasted running in cement relative to our rivals. And the only just finished season can now be viewed entirely in it's proper context.
For what it's worth, I had written several times I did not think it would take very long to find out if Ancelotti was the right man in the managers job. But this news still does come as a gut punch to supporters and a reality check to where we stand as a club and an organization. We seemingly are as far from a culture capable of attaining and sustaining success as at any time I can recall in my lifetime.
And until that changes, it will likely just be more of this. Meet the old boss, same as the new boss.
16 Posted 02/06/2021 at 00:58:57
18 Posted 02/06/2021 at 01:05:24
As Christine says, the death of his former wife, having his house robbed, lacking the chance to connect properly with the fans and their passion during COVID-19 will have all contributed. He had also begun to appreciate the size of the rebuild needed in squad where only 7-8 players are at the right level in terms of quality. He perhaps faced up to the fact that he didn't have the energy to do it.
Whether you liked or disliked Ancelotti, it is a top level manager that we need if we are to break into the top six. And his hiring proved we can secure one. Pochettino, Conte, Galtier, Ten Haag are all possible with ambition so over to Moshiri and Brands.
We have experimented with managers of the profile of Potter, Cooper, Dyche etc before and they are simply not good enough to be considered for a club the size of Everton.
19 Posted 02/06/2021 at 01:25:34
A manager, who by all accounts is a honourable man, universally liked in the profession, by all who know him and have worked with him. Said manager tells us he is in for the long haul. Loves the area and the passion the supporters have for the club. An ex club a super club ( who sacked him ) gets in touch and whoosh he's gone. A club he criticised only a few weeks ago for the ESL farce.
It's not for the money as we paid him a 100% more. If it's for the prestige, he may find them relegated and / or kicked out of the CL. If its for the type of players he wants to buy, that may prove difficult as they are skint. If it was the break-in and his family didn't feel safe any more, say so. No one would blame him and his family.
Did he go because he was told by EFC he cannot buy the players he wants ? Was it because he realised EFC were a lost cause. Was it something else. Whatever happened I feel we the ever so faithful and oh so necessary fans should be told.
Us Evertonians have been left feeling like a fish gutted and filleted and not in a nice way, if there is such a thing. Who ever comes in god help them as I for one, won't believe a bloody word he says. As for the players at Goodison, hang your heads in shame. You know who you are. the ones who downed tools yet again at City and before. Please go and take those on the board, the never won f all ex pros and hangers on, who leech a living off a once great club. I for one have had enough of you.
As for those at EFC who do give a damn thank you. Its just a pity you are part of a tiny minority.
A SERIOUSLY PISSED OFF BLUE.
20 Posted 02/06/2021 at 01:33:19
21 Posted 02/06/2021 at 02:17:00
Frank, I would strongly doubt that Conte would come to a club that is nowhere close to playing in the CL. He just left Inter because the Chinese ownership is slashing the budget. I don't think he'll be impressed with our available funds either.
22 Posted 02/06/2021 at 02:24:01
Yeah theres an interesting article today by Jolly, saying Conte has priced himself out of a job as he has no grasp on transfer budgets. Seemingly both PSG and RM have passed over him in the last year as he wants a blank check.
23 Posted 02/06/2021 at 02:25:10
The core of the Steve Walsh dream team still going strong six managers later.
24 Posted 02/06/2021 at 02:50:07
"Ironically, Ancelotti and his now-former players may have just blown the only one Everton will get." Lyndon, I totally agree. 3.00 o'clock in the morning with a massive headache - both me and my beloved Everton.
25 Posted 02/06/2021 at 02:52:43
Never build a successful team just inherited the success from the hard yards of previous coaches.
Never encouraged young talent, played it safe with old lags.
Never changed from a defensive mindset, even at home games.
What we didnt know was his persona of “honest and dignified was just bullshit.
The irony of “In Carlo we Trust” cannot be lost or forgotten.
26 Posted 02/06/2021 at 03:04:12
Maybe Im letting him off the hook but I agree. Real Madrid is the biggest club in the world. Because of the prestige his success there was the pinnacle of his career. The last year here hes had to contend with Covid, quarantine, a harrowing robbery, the death of his childs mother, a mediocre team and has an owner whos proved to be trigger happy. The rose tinted dream of reliving happier times is bound to be tempting
27 Posted 02/06/2021 at 03:07:05
I also don't think it was a last minute, spur of the moment decision, he must have known for weeks, yet he continued to field unbalanced teams that anyone on TW, could have picked better, not only the naming of subs but the ill-timed usage of them too. Who, no matter how good a footballer, is going to change a game with 2 or 3 minutes to go of normal time?
How many times with games in hand have we blown away points against opposition we should easily have beaten? All the time knowing he was going to leave anyway? I call that despicable and the act of a coward. With all due respect Brent, while getting one's home violated by scum is an abhorrent occurrence, I can't help but feel that may have been cited as a convenient excuse.
This sort of behaviour never happens in Spain or Italy? Get real, it happens sadly everywhere, such are the copious amounts of money at the top it is almost an invitation to the would be thief to step up to the challenge and attempt to get their hands on some of the spoils.
I just hope our next Manager is fully committed because who could have envisaged the catalogue of Financial Disasters and inappropriate hirings of the wrong type of Manager and players alike, since Farhad Moshiri came aboard? It almost beggars belief!
28 Posted 02/06/2021 at 03:11:27
And he's not gone to Real for an easy ride, perhaps. A club in financial difficulties, with a fan base with massive expectations. A bolt whole from where he's just been?
A combination of being driven from Merseyside (not so much from Everton) and being attracted back to Real "despite its current limitations)?
I bear him no malice.
29 Posted 02/06/2021 at 03:17:20
30 Posted 02/06/2021 at 03:20:29
Mate, with respect too, another factor that as a Tayside native like my mother you may miss is the weather. Carlo is from sunny Southern Italy, my wife is a Floridian. Every time we go to England, she assures me the windy, rainy weather amplifies every negative emotion. Also, yeah crime is everywhere. When I lived in Moss Side, Manchester it was dangerous but not unexpected. When Ive been in less familiar areas and succumbed to it somehow its more unnerving.
Now as I said to Brent, I may be totally naive here and giving Carlo a pass he doesnt deserve but thats where my head is at now
31 Posted 02/06/2021 at 03:49:42
32 Posted 02/06/2021 at 04:09:33
Carlo came to understand the size of the Everton project, and he got the hell outta Dodge at the first opportunity.
I hope he does well at Madrid, but its not going to be easy. An aging club with huge money problems. Its not the club he left. The grass isnt always greener…..and all that shit.
33 Posted 02/06/2021 at 04:33:10
34 Posted 02/06/2021 at 04:35:01
Given his recent comments I thought Carlo still believed he could take us to the promised land so the big question for me is 'what has changed ?'
What has caused him to apparently suddenly jump ship and go to a club in financial trouble, that is still holding on to thoughts of a super league, that sacked him after 2 years? My fear is that he was told there is no money to spend this summer and if that is true then we are truly in the do do. No manager and no cash is a nightmare scenario given our performances at the back end of last season. Couple that with the possibility that Carlo may want to take say Godfrey and Digne with him to Real for basically peanuts and it just gets worse.
As for the new manager I've no idea where we go from here to be honest but while we may toss around names as to who we would prefer I'm afraid that if things are as bad as they look it may be a question of who in his right mind will come.
I've been supporting the blues for 60 years so I've seen some ups and downs and while I try to be a cup half full type of guy, today is the worst I've felt in 60 years. I shall spend from now until the new managers announced hoping that the board can pull a rabbit out of the hat as well as find some cash down the back of Bill's sofa. NSNO
35 Posted 02/06/2021 at 06:02:15
Carlo wasnt a magician, Everton need one.
36 Posted 02/06/2021 at 06:24:18
That is massive in football now as footballers believe in all that nonsense Neville and Carragher spew.
Lately there has been loads of talk about which leagues have the best managers and Ancelotti was mentioned often after Pep and the German fella.
If Moshiri can pull a similar target it may not be as big a job as we think but still tough for whoever comes in.
37 Posted 02/06/2021 at 06:25:49
38 Posted 02/06/2021 at 06:31:46
This sums it up for me. Carlos strengths were his personality and reputation, not his coaching or tactics.
40 Posted 02/06/2021 at 07:13:59
Who to bring in next? I am not sure...
41 Posted 02/06/2021 at 07:18:03
Whether thats true or not we have to accept it could be so. After all Ancelotti and his family wanted away if the right deal arose.
If you want to find some sort of positivity;
1 Its a blessing that hes gone on June 1st and not August 1st.
2 Its also a blessing he hasnt stayed on, unmotivated, whilst his family are unhappy. Then results continue the downward trajectory only to be sacked in October.
3 Its a blessing we dont have to pay 25m to dismiss him.
4 Its a blessing we arent managerless mid season and scraping around the bottom of the barrel to get a replacement. Look who we ended up with last time !
Whoever comes in needs to be a really strong , charismatic character and a team builder. I want someone that can do what Pochettino did at Spurs or what Simeone has done at Atletico.
I want a manager that takes the club by the scruff of the neck and transforms it throughout from FF to the First team. Someone who will bring the Everton identity back of being a tough committed, no nonsense team, with controlled aggression that supports quality.
Someone who will instil an unshakeable pride and motivation in all the players at the club whatever level.
Someone who will raise the bar and professional standards in all aspects.
I dont want a mercenary or Hollywood manager at all.
I think Marcel Brands needs to be central to this appointment and has to be given the final say. I think then we can find some harmony in the pursuit of creating a young, vibrant and a completely new Everton in the way the club is currently perceived. A tough proud football club that fears no one and can beat anyone with determination aligned with skill.
A football team that will match any other for fitness and motivation as an absolute club standard.
We are a brilliant football club, theres no fans more passionate than us lot. The club is ripe for improvement, the fans deserve it, we have to believe this appointment can deliver it.
42 Posted 02/06/2021 at 07:30:25
Kieran (26) you kind of wrote my thoughts there.
I would pick up on an important point that us fans often and rightfully don't get. Because we're fans:
“loyalty is to people, not organisations. For organisations, its not personal, only business.”
Like it or not, we have to remember this is their job and they make career decisions based on the organisations they work for or want to go and work for. Like all of us in our professional life, we separate the personal from the professional.
I suspect (don't know) there are several factors at play here. But from the professional angle, it was just too good to turn down at his stage of life. As a person I can understand that, even though as an Evertonian it still disappoints me.
43 Posted 02/06/2021 at 07:39:40
In addition to the qualities mentioned though, we also need someone who is happy with Brands doing the scouting and acquisition of players for him to coach, not a manager who is proven themselves in the transfer market.
If Brands is trusted, we need a good coach instead of a good manager. People like Conte might not be happy in that role.
44 Posted 02/06/2021 at 07:40:20
I'm thinking they're going to go for a big established name again.
But knowing Everton, they'll do neither what you say or what I think and appoint from within.
I genuinely and seriously hope not.
45 Posted 02/06/2021 at 07:43:52
Players have agents and friends all over the football world and if Real were considering Ancelotti someone on our books could have got wind.
Look at some of our half-arsed performances from players and indeed Carlo himself and you could conclude that the players had a good idea that this guy could be off sooner than later.
No wonder he thought that 10th was okay.
Who knows how he will fare at a big club on the slide, but he obviously buttered us all up with his "love" of Crosby etc. Who could compare it to some of the lovely Villas in the outskirts of Madrid, with gorgeous weather?
I really don't want us to appoints another big name, fancy Dan. I just want a guy who can inspire, motivate the team and get them onto the park feelling fit as fleas, ready to run through a wall for the shirt.
46 Posted 02/06/2021 at 07:44:53
Are we mentioning Pochetino yet? That would be my choice.
47 Posted 02/06/2021 at 07:45:31
If, as I strongly suspect, Kenwright is still making the decisions and if Ferguson is foisted onto the new person, then expect us to continue floundering in the sea.
The club remains a disaster zone.
I want Graham Potter but I think we are due with a soft touch Martinez, Silva type that they can push around. Fat Frank would be their type.
48 Posted 02/06/2021 at 07:52:04
But if we could bring him in and allow him to work with Brands for 3 years then they could prepare us for a tilt at the top 4 in that time, and also introduce the likes of Small, Price, Welch etc into the mix.
Potter would do the same sort of job. Santos too, I guess.
49 Posted 02/06/2021 at 07:53:10
Yes Eddie, these things don't just happen in 48 hours. Think back to Moyes.
50 Posted 02/06/2021 at 07:58:40
Benetiz would fit the bill at managing a 'small club'
51 Posted 02/06/2021 at 08:03:54
Any suggestion we could get Rodgers, Pochetino, Conte or Zidane to take over is just laughable. We will get a manager who has won nothing this time, our stock is very low and so will be our next appointment.
Let's get real chaps. It's going to be Nuno, Moyes, Dyche or Lampard. If they all refuse, Ferguson will be on standby.
52 Posted 02/06/2021 at 08:04:59
Moshiri said when he recruited Ancelotti that he thought we had a squad of top class players and we just needed a top coach to get the most out of them. He was clearly wrong at the time, Id hoped Ancelotti would convince him of that but I fear Brands (whos responsible for the state of the squad) has the ear of Moshiri and is protecting his own arse. After all if Moshiri has to admit the squad isnt up to standard he has to acknowledge hes pissed £100 millions up the wall and Brands isnt up to the job. I think Moshiri is in denial.
Deeply concerning times. The next managerial appointment will be a forced, but self inflicted backwards step.
53 Posted 02/06/2021 at 08:09:06
Brands and Ten Hag is certainly an interesting combination , I can see them working together to build something. In the PL I like Nuno and Potter who has an air of confidence and control about him that I really like. I think they are both pretty strong characters and good managers.
What concerns me is that we hire someone who is happy to go along with the current set up and status quo at the club. That would be the easiest, cosiest and most convenient decision for a lot of the personnel throughout the club.
Ill sit back and trust (hope and pray) Mr Brands gets it right.
54 Posted 02/06/2021 at 08:09:16
55 Posted 02/06/2021 at 08:43:03
No more fancy-dan James/siggurdson type signings. We need grafters with a strong mentality and will to win.
The current squad are psychologically lightweight. They wont be forgotten as the team with the worst home record in history for nothing.
Royle knew this 25 years ago thats why he jibbed the likes of Limpar initially and went with the DOW.
So build from the bottom. Start again. We're not top six at the moment so stop trying to compete with them on their terms with the fancy managers/players etc.
56 Posted 02/06/2021 at 08:52:20
Whoever we get next has to break that mold (if one exists) and instill a winning mentality in the players, none of this wishy-washy couldn't seem to give a toss attitude. We don't want another yes man, whoever the others have been saying yes to, we need a breath of fresh air and a raft of players who want to give at least 100% each game and want to win.
57 Posted 02/06/2021 at 08:58:24
58 Posted 02/06/2021 at 09:08:48
That's my take on Mr Ancelotti, who had a great record on his CV, but did not live up to it at Everton, which was the most important place to me.
He came, he saw and he did one. And that farewell speech... well, we could all recite it long before he said it. Take it with you, Mr Ancelotti.
59 Posted 02/06/2021 at 09:10:43
I am hoping for a manager who can have the side playing with a greater tempo, on the front foot and one who wants to be at the club for the next 5 years or so with a view to breaking into the top 6. We must give the next manager time to implement his style of play, there is no quick fix, particularly, with regards to our current squad.
Carlo's departure is not the end of the world. On balance I think he improved us over the past 18 months but we were, without doubt, an unattractive side to watch. His signings are not the absolute disasters of Koeman's era. He heads back to Madrid and they have taken a major punt in taking him back.
60 Posted 02/06/2021 at 09:28:09
An attitude we saw all too often in players bought and who stank the place out on a regular basis, with a new low v Sheffield Utd a few weeks ago. If I'd been Ancellotti, I'd have gone after that debacle – and maybe that game was the clincher.
The rot starts at the top. I find it difficult to understand why Kenwright is still there and we seem more interested in EitC awards than anything else. Moshiri needs to get the managerial appointment right and support that manager over what may well be a torrid next season... but he also needs a root-and-branch review of how the Club is run and the loser mentality it has created.
61 Posted 02/06/2021 at 09:35:17
Immediately after the end of the Catterick era, Moores's Number One priority became his other business interests and the club were just left to get on with it.
62 Posted 02/06/2021 at 09:37:47
63 Posted 02/06/2021 at 09:41:52
I think he has now reached the same stage as Lerner did with Villa and Short did with Sunderland. Most of the money will be spent on building the new stadium, and I believe whoever comes in will be given a lot less than the previous managers.
I have no doubt they would have backed Ancelotti but now he has walked away, so I think they realize that this club is a basket case that will never get back to the heady days of challenging for the games top trophies.
I also think sadly our fans need to accept however painful that the glory days are long gone and we can hopefully stay in this division, so even though we wont have the best players we will still be able to see them live as long as we stay in the Premier league. Some papers are suggesting that we are battling with Crystal Palace for the services of Santo – that tells you all you need to know how far Everton have fallen.
I don't know if Ancelotti could have turned this club around, but at least we knew he had proved capable of winning the top honours and some like me hoped he could restore us if not to winning leagues at least set us on the right path.
Apart from Ancelotti, this club has appointed "maybe" managers, by that I mean managers who previously had won little or nothing but the thought being if they come here and we give them money to spend who knows.
They got lucky twice in Catterick who had finished runner up to Spurs with Sheffield Wednesday before joining us, and Howard who was doing okay with Blackburn in the 2nd Division. All those between Catterick and Kendall failed miserably and those who followed Kendall have all failed.
So our DNA says we will again try and appoint another who has won very little but might if we give them a few bob to spend.
I have lost all hope in this club being able to get it right but, like all optimistic Blues, I live in hope.
64 Posted 02/06/2021 at 09:48:21
Bearing in mind that our top choices won't be interested, I can see Moshiri going for Benitez.
65 Posted 02/06/2021 at 10:20:38
He willed it to the season's very last kick but somewhat amazingly it ended no higher than tenth and I'm sure the great man was ashamed of the shit that got us there.
No, he was never right for Everton and would have faced the sack before Xmas, given our moneyman's track record. Perhaps Moshiri will get it right by the time we get to BMD. But I wouldn't bet on it, neither the stadium nor stability !
66 Posted 02/06/2021 at 10:21:52
He was on his backside with Napoli and seemingly not that saleable. Arsenal went for Arteta and nothing else was really available, so why not take £11 million a year plus much more for his family connections until one of the ESL giants were struggling.
It was who was struggling and first to offer him his perceived club of real standing. If Barca had sacked Koemans a couple of weeks ago, he would be there right now, pushing out the garbage he now spouts about the world's most corrupt club at the Bernerbau!
A charlatan, who may achieved big things before only because he took on rich clubs with most of the team building in place. His time at EFC demonstrated his limitations in management. Similar to the likes of Mourinho, he can only succeed with megabuck players already in his teams or about to arrive.
Despite RM's percieved financial status, he knows that the money tree will just keep on giving him top players with nefarious support and tax breaks from the Spanish Government as in years gone by. Perhaps, they can sell their historic old training ground to the Government again for megabucks and buy it back for a ten euro banknote, just like they did in the mid-eighties according to The Grauniad reports.
Good riddance and whether he was the right manager for EFC, the taste he has left in my mouth is that of a conman, who was just waiting for any rich team to come along and rescue him and his family back-up team tribe.
In my new and vengeful dreams, I just want to see him and Perez get humiliated at Bramley Moore Dock in a 2024/25 Champions League group stage game!
67 Posted 02/06/2021 at 10:29:27
I may as well make it a short call something like:
"Hello, Mr Hawkins, how are you?"
"I'm an Evertonian."
"Oh, I'm sorry – there's not much I can do for you."
No-one has mentioned free agent Woy Hodgson... I wonder why.
I am more in the German Coach camp as they like everything nice and tidy and are technically streets ahead of the likes of Howe, Dyche, or Moyes.
The only thing is I have not followed the Bundesliga much with so much on my mind. But this shower definitely need a demanding no-nonsense coach who will not stand for mediocrity or hiding on the pitch.
68 Posted 02/06/2021 at 10:39:55
69 Posted 02/06/2021 at 10:40:21
Again wishing you the best Len.
70 Posted 02/06/2021 at 10:40:43
71 Posted 02/06/2021 at 10:46:34
72 Posted 02/06/2021 at 10:54:38
So, an awful lot of uncertainty; things could go either way from here. Perhaps this is a banal, bland statement but I think it is a vital one to make at the moment as everyone needs to keep a cool head and simply find the next step forwards.
We may end up with a brilliant coach who can get more out of our players than Ancelotti did. Ancelotti is neither a magician nor a charlatan/dinosaur, but he has clear strengths and clear weaknesses. One thing I think we'd all agree on is that he didn't get the maximum out of our players and another coach may well be able to do more.
Len @67, I am sorry to hear about your tough times. I hope you find consolation and know that Evertonians and ToffeeWebbers everywhere are with you.
73 Posted 02/06/2021 at 11:00:13
The game is dead for us in terms of enjoyment. False hope too often and false ambition more often than not.
Football is structured to keep us where we are.
74 Posted 02/06/2021 at 11:05:24
He brought in a Colombian crock and an ex Napoli player who had been dropped.
Wow, what pulling power!!!
Out best signings were Doucouré, who Silva wanted desperately, and our player of the season Godfrey, who I reckon Carlo knew fuck-all about.
Carlo will not be missed one bit.
75 Posted 02/06/2021 at 11:06:44
I'll back whoever they choose and forgive a few wobbles on the road if I can see good team spirit, work ethic, a semblance of an identity and vision, and players that can pass to each other on a regular basis.
76 Posted 02/06/2021 at 11:09:46
77 Posted 02/06/2021 at 11:17:36
78 Posted 02/06/2021 at 11:26:21
Madrid ain't taking James back anytime soon, so James has to hope Atletico or, dare I say it, Inter Miami come calling!!!
Interesting times, or should I say apprehensive times. We won't get 11 away wins next season and our home form is not going to turn around enough to compensate for the drop-off of away points... I am worried about our top-flight status come the end of the 21-22 season.
Len, as we are all members of our Blue Family, we are all here for you,
79 Posted 02/06/2021 at 11:37:53
The criteria for the managers job have not changed but the limitations of the squad are clearer than ever. We have built arguably the slowest squad in the Premier League at a time when the game at top level has speeded up. Transforming that will take two to three years.
The new man needs to bring proven ability to make the best of what he has got. He needs to bring a top class support team. He needs proven ability to manage upwards in order to secure the maximum possible transfer funds as well as manage expectations. He needs proven ability to endure longer than eighteen months, the typical tenure of modern coaches and indeed recent Everton managers. He needs proven ability to fight a relegation battle. Preferably he would also bring a track record of success in winning trophies. Who meets those criteria?
80 Posted 02/06/2021 at 11:39:27
'Just saw Carlo (7:50am) in his Roller 4x4 leaving from the direction of Richarlison's House, that's him off too.'
He's had a long drive then and just as well Carlo's car is a 4x4.
Richy is currently in Brazil and has been in training camp with the Brazilian squad for nearly a week preparing for upcoming World Cup qualifiers and the Copa America (which really should not be taking place).
81 Posted 02/06/2021 at 11:42:36
We are not the only club with money but no credibility. Latter can not be bought, it comes with professionalism in all aspects and is always a long-term result. I understand Carlo's move, we are not in the same league with Real. On the other hand he was not the manager we needed.
Even if there is an exodus of some players, the team has to be rebuilt. There's no cohesion at all and it can't be fixed. That's clear. What comes next is the big question, anything is possible. Can't get much worse, which I guess is a positive thing.
82 Posted 02/06/2021 at 11:46:18
83 Posted 02/06/2021 at 11:47:53
84 Posted 02/06/2021 at 11:51:33
85 Posted 02/06/2021 at 11:51:36
86 Posted 02/06/2021 at 11:56:12
87 Posted 02/06/2021 at 11:57:32
As you bring up the German coach topic, I'll repeat myself from the other thread and probably many more as I do ramble around these pages a lot.
They have a trend of combining being able to manage big players, develop youth and get more out of what they have. Forget Klopp's friendly persona; they are German. Organised, efficient, disciplined, technically and tactically astute.
As I've just posted, as much as I'd love that route and surely Brands has connections into that market, the really good ones are gone.
Tuchel. Well played Chelsea. Acted swiftly when available.
Nagelmanns. Taken by Bayern, who's coach will now be the national coach.
Marco Rose (Monchengladbach): Taken by Dortmund.
I fear the only German coaches available will not be the up and coming ones unless there is a hidden gem out there. Joachim Low is available but how long is it since he coached at club level?
Best wishes Len.
88 Posted 02/06/2021 at 12:09:54
Brands does the buying, the head coach does the coaching.
I don't care about who they played for, only that they are committed.
Most young British coaches are well versed in a more modern type of footy.
This means Frank, Stevie G and others are defo on the table.
89 Posted 02/06/2021 at 12:12:00
90 Posted 02/06/2021 at 12:25:05
91 Posted 02/06/2021 at 12:29:39
I looked up the team which started against relegated Bournemouth in the final game of the 2019/2020 season. That was a nadir for me (at that point). Moise Kean was up front, Walcott played and Branthwaite was at centre back. We had an ageing Coleman at right-back. Digne at left back. Keane at centre back. Gomes and Davies in midfield. Sigurdsson as a number 10. Richarlison on the wing. Calvert-Lewin and Bernard on the bench. Pickford in goal with two keepers on the bench in Stekelenburg and Virginia.
The team which finished this season at Man City contained Allan, Doucoure and Godfrey but they were the only real changes in personnel. Coleman was on the bench, with Holgate at right back instead. Pickford in goal. Keane at centre back. Richarlison, Sigurdsson, Digne and Davies all played. Gomes was on the bench with Bernard.
For all our unfounded optimism, the writing was on the wall. We still have a group of players which lack bottle and character and it's depressing, particularly when you look at what we've spent.
None of the suggested candidates fill me with any optimism. I like Rodgers and Pochettino but why would they come to Everton? Nuno had a couple of good seasons but I know some Wolves fans and they ran out of patience with him this season. Potter seems like a flash-in-the-pan to me. There have been umpteen managers like him down the years who were flavour of the month for a brief period. I don't want Moyes back - I liked him but we need to move on. Martinez would have the same defensive failings. I like Bielsa but he wouldn't leave Leeds and would our fanbase tolerate winning with 3 goals for the occasional hiding.
I feel a mug for believing the hype around September. We should have known better.
92 Posted 02/06/2021 at 12:57:44
Tells me that we should expect there to be loads of trouble next time we play Real Madrid !!!
On a serious note, I am sad to see us in another managerial merry go round mess but can only blame the guy paying the bills. Obviously knows nothing about football and Carlo saw him coming as did Ronnie the rat and Sam the man. Silva was just a personal fancy as people with loads of cash often waste it on personal wants.
Next one in needs a firm hand as the current crew obviously care very little give or take a few exceptions. Who would want to take the poison chalice which is Everton Football Club after 5 managerial appointments in as many years.
Carlo saw the writing on the wall and didn't have the stomach for the fight so probably best that he has gone as another season watching the shite that he served up would probably have seen him fired and paid off with 30 - 40 million next season. We can spend that on a striker or two for next season.
As per usual we live in hope.
Hope we pick the right man for the job at the sixth attempt.
93 Posted 02/06/2021 at 13:14:01
94 Posted 02/06/2021 at 13:18:51
As for Carlo I don't begrudge him for going to RM I think all hasn't been well behind the scenes at the club. And the football we had last season after the first month was the worst I've ever seen. Be it the players, the manager or coaches, It was garbage. Even when we won (away) it wasn't entertaining. I strongly want a manager who will impose strict discipline with the players, and I thought Carlo would have done that but didn't seem like that at all.
95 Posted 02/06/2021 at 13:20:21
Photos accompanying match reports show a hang dog looking man bereft of answers on the verge of a stroke. Whinging he wasn't a magician hinted a face saving escape might be on the cards and blustering everything was tickety boo bar 2 or 3 more signings was pure flannel
The inevitable sacking at Madrid won't tarnish his reputation one jot but getting heaved out here would be very damaging
96 Posted 02/06/2021 at 13:40:21
97 Posted 02/06/2021 at 13:40:49
98 Posted 02/06/2021 at 13:46:20
Apparently, Nuno is top of Moshiri's wish list, however, according to one report, a stumbling block to any move to Everton is that he wants his own assistant, which would mean that Duncan wouldn't be part of his team.
99 Posted 02/06/2021 at 14:01:26
They never seem to know whether talks have taken place but they know his demands already.
100 Posted 02/06/2021 at 14:14:05
Nuno not my choice; I actually can't put my finger on who I do want.
But please don't let the selection of the manager be based on keeping the old boys club because they hug a ball boy when we scored. Come on Everton. Think fucking strategically for once.
101 Posted 02/06/2021 at 14:23:25
102 Posted 02/06/2021 at 14:27:39
Still think Gomes is a donkey, need more than an a Supercharged Carrot to get him to perform regularly!
103 Posted 02/06/2021 at 14:40:40
The Rangers job would have been perfect for him. The Celtic job is available but would their fans accept him?!
104 Posted 02/06/2021 at 14:46:10
105 Posted 02/06/2021 at 14:48:00
I want them both to succeed. I fear Unsworth has left it too late now and just wants to be the Everton U23 Manager.
Duncan still has time, but needs to fly the nest and make his own name, where he has more responsibility than laying the cones out, clapping his hands and motivating a team someone else has picked and holding up the substitution board.
I don't mean to sound harsh, but if he has genuine managerial ambition, and in future that may be with Everton, he needs to get out there and prove himself. He needs to take responsibility somewhere else, not sit in the background in the dugout.
Many laud how only ex Evertonians win trophies as Everton manager. Well, I don't think any of them done it by going from player to coach to manager without leaving to cut their teeth elsewhere first.
If he doesn't go an prove himself as a manager, he'll just be a coach. Like our own, and very respected Colin Harvey. Coach, not manager.
106 Posted 02/06/2021 at 14:49:11
107 Posted 02/06/2021 at 14:56:13
I really have fallen out of love with Football and Everton. I dont want us to go for another quick fix, big name again and off we go throwing money at the situation and we hope it works. We need to look in my opinion at an up-and-coming manager and give him time. We need to develop the youth players better and try bringing them through to the first team but please can we get some kind of football identity back at the club. I do not know how we play or what that identity is anymore.
Under Martinez as least we had a brand and style of play. Yes it got a bit stagnant but I feel that was down to a lack of money to freshen things up and move us forward again.
In relation to new managers the Potter idea intrigues me. I am not saying he's the right guy but he could be. If you look at Rodgers he did some good stuff at Reading, then Swansea and got the Liverpool job and then its been onwards and upwards. Potter, Chris Wilder maybe? Conte is the best available but not the answer for me. He wants to win now and we are just going to be back in the shits again in 18 months as thats not happening for us anytime soon.
Anyway my point being is that I would just like us to have a spirit about us again on the pitch and a Team that the fans can relate to and get behind. It seems its been an eternity since that was the case at Everton.
108 Posted 02/06/2021 at 15:21:03
I don't think our board will look outside the usual Sky TV suspects.
I am worried our board will listen to Bill Kenwright and we get the "Dream Team".
And his most recent position was more a Director of Football one at RB Leipzig. So straight away there's conflict with Brands there.
Could work as Brands seems to have board room level ambition but if you're looking for someone to come in and shake things up, he would be a good candidate.
Can't see us going there.
109 Posted 02/06/2021 at 15:25:43
110 Posted 02/06/2021 at 15:42:43
To that you can add the total scorn he had towards the Dirty Dozen who attempted to launch the ESL, very much driven by his new employer at Real Madrid, Florentino Perez.
So why has he done it?
Some are claiming the Everton board are relieved that he has walked because they were looking to bin him any way and have saved themselves paying out compo.
But the reports really don't support that view. Just last week there was a conflab of all parties discussing the possible revamping of the squad this summer. That the fast moving news story totally blindsided the board, leaving them 'shell-shocked' as Lyndon describes it. That Brands was tasked yesterday to persuade Carlo to stay, but was unsuccessful.
It wasn't for the money (as if he needs more). Reports suggest he has nearly halved his salary from £11 million pa with Everton to £6 million pa with Real.
It could be for the prestige. Sorry, but Real Madrid IS a mega draw for any professional involved in football. When they came calling it is very hard to resist.
It could be Carlo's self-acknowledgement that he could not achieve what he wants to deliver at Everton given the restraints of the existing squad he had to work with and the limited transfer funds available, whereas Real Madrid is a more familiar and favourable environment under those parameters that he is more used to working in.
The puzzling thing is that the self-declared football traditionalist and man of honour and integrity is that he has gone back to a club which, to the wider football world, is currently in disgrace and face the very real prospect of having severe sanctions placed against them, including exclusion from the CL.
Florentino Perez refuses to renounce his ESL dream (which Carlo mocked). They are severely in debt. They have an ageing squad which needs serious revamping. They don't have the riches - without sending themselves even further into debt - to undertake the latter.
I don't take the more cynical view of some that Carlo has been insincere in his utterances and intentions about our club whilst at Everton. I think he was totally sincere and genuine at the time he uttered any glowing praise and ambitions for Everton as he did. I'm more inclined to think personal events impacted more on Carlo's thinking and commitment than football matters.
In February then March you had first Carlo's then Olsen's families traumatised by being at home when some low-lifes broke into their homes.
There was clearly a press embargo imposed by the club because at weekly pressers this matter was never raised.
We know Carlo's young step-daughter was alone in the house and came face-to-face with the invaders. It is reported she was deeply traumatised by this. Carlo and his second wife would have been equally impacted by this also.
As someone who has personally faced the same experience on two separate occassions, one of them with 3 assaultants and another a drugged-up teenager wielding a huge knife, I can assure you it ain't pleasant. 30 years on from one of them, I can still wake up in the night and imagine a moving shadow in the dark and think my home has been broken into again.
So sorry Derek Knox, I consider you are being way too dismissive in your words describing Carlo's break-in as 'a convenient excuse'.
For me, it would be a considerable determining factor in Carlo's decision making on switching Everton for Real.
To that you can add that for weeks he would have been living with the knowledge of the long-term terminal illness of his first wife, the mother of his two children (one of them being Davide, a coach at the club) who died within a day or two of the final game of the season.
There is evidence of how these two events possibly influenced his decision in his parting message:
'While I have enjoyed being at Everton I have been presented with an unexpected opportunity which I believe is the right move for me and my family at this time.
Whilst I believe non-footballing matters influenced his decision to up and leave, I also agree to a degree with Lyndon's conclusion:
'Its hard not to be left with the sense that he is just as bad as the rest in the modern game; ready to drop everything and leave at the first opportunity when things look a bit more challenging than first thought.'
I said yesterday that Carlo, for all his real or claimed integrity, has sent a very clear message to all the players he has left behind.
'You are a professional sports person. Don't be lulled or wooed by romanticism. If a chance comes to improve yourself, to advance your career, take it.'
Why should the better players at the club (and there are some, in spite of what some think) be persuaded to 'Give us 1-2-3 more years to reach the promised land. We're building something here' when the architect chosen to construct the Brave New World has just jumped ship?
This is both a setback (we need greater managerial stability), but also an opportunity. It radically changes our summer plans. Five years in, Moshiri needs someone who will stick around.
Again, I agree with Lyndon. As Director of Football, Brands needs to be the one driving the next managerial appointment within the framework of a long-term, holistic strategy.
Who we do appoint will be very revealing as to who has - and doesn't have - influence at the club.
111 Posted 02/06/2021 at 15:47:52
Davide Ancelottis bird tweeted 2 weeks ago arreviderci to her friends at the gym she went to in Crosby... so what have Everton been doing in tbe meantime?????
112 Posted 02/06/2021 at 15:59:17
I too had the experience. Fortunately for me, my 2 Rhodesian Ridgebacks made the intruder think twice and retreat quickly. But it was nevertheless an unpleasant and upsetting experience for the family.
And illness to someone closest to you, as I have suffered this year, impacts you mentally. Probably more than if it was yourself. You wish it could have been you.
And yes, the lure of Real Madrid would have been difficult to turn down professionally.
There's a lot more to this than just football and multiple factors in this decision.
113 Posted 02/06/2021 at 15:59:49
114 Posted 02/06/2021 at 16:03:29
I think he just wanted to go.
Hes not daft
He doesnt really need the money
He knows wherever he and his family go he could be subject to the same halfwits he got in Crosby
Anyone who is not a “blue” will do whats best for himself regardless at any time
Wed play for Everton for nothing, sod a contract, do it for free
We support them regardless
Anyone else is just passing through regardless of what they say
He was here, hes gone, thank you very much, next please.
Not worth putting too much “readon why” into it
115 Posted 02/06/2021 at 16:05:41
116 Posted 02/06/2021 at 16:13:22
117 Posted 02/06/2021 at 16:14:25
"Anyone who is not a “blue” will do whats best for himself regardless at any time"
Unless money and or prestige is involved (Rooney, Jeffers, Barkley)
118 Posted 02/06/2021 at 16:18:14
This is a raw moment, but we were never getting relegated under Carlo. We were one game away from Europe on a points total that usually would get you there reasonably comfortable.
His failure is that it shouldn't have come down to the last game. We missed opportunity after opportunity to capitalise.
But then we don't have the players. We've been saying that for the past few seasons. It almost doesn't matter who we bring in. They will change the playing staff.
119 Posted 02/06/2021 at 16:18:28
I didn't change jobs and I didn't move houses. I did do counselling which I found really useful. And altered security arrangements though ultimately there's only somuch you can do.
And yes, occasionally the way someone moves or the way they look in a mask gives you the real time flashback and the adrenaline just rocketsback through you. That sort of experience sadly always leaves a lasting mark, no matter how well adjusted one might ordinarily be.
No matter of money can adequately compensate for those you care most about living in fear. And if that is a factor in Ancelottis departure, most of us - all of us? - can respect that. But that hasn't been explicity stated...if true why not?
A bit of transparency right now would go a long way. Instead it feels like the Everton press relations team is planting stories implying Ancelotti walked before he was pushed it seems!
It just feels very Alice Through The Looking Glass right now. Surreal scene watching it, like a slow motion nightmare.
120 Posted 02/06/2021 at 16:23:39
The football played since he has been the owner has been abysmal.
121 Posted 02/06/2021 at 16:24:21
122 Posted 02/06/2021 at 16:28:23
Just a thought.
123 Posted 02/06/2021 at 16:32:56
Was an Srixon Hybrid I grabbed to get the job done. I recall well because I won a bet on the Sunday for longest fairway using it. Still didn't have wheels so the lad I cadged a ride from was salty as he was the one I pipped.
Brian, yes it's all speculation. And as I alluded to very personal in how much each individual is attracted by the trauma of crime, especially violent or potentially violent crime. But in the circumstances a few luntrributed eaks to Moshiris well placed sources could help soften the blow to us Evertonians.
Realistically, this is the only scenario in which Ancelotti would retain any sympathy and goodwill. It's madness to not to use that if it's true.
124 Posted 02/06/2021 at 16:43:39
For all the negatives - home form, defensive football, embarrassing losses - Ancellotti's away form, clean sheets and top 6 record will have all but guaranteed his job security.
We can't do a Chelsea because we haven't got the credibility to get rid every year and replace with better.
All the speculation and bookies odds mean nothing. Will Moshiri alter his approach and go for young and hungry - and, if so, can he afford to give him enough time and money as the club adapts to yet another change of approach?
125 Posted 02/06/2021 at 16:52:25
We never looked like relegation so we suffered a season of pouting, simulated injuries, and youg players who were told 5 years ago that they were world class and are now p***ed off that they are not. A sure sign of Ancelotti's boredom was that he played some ex academy starlets whose speciality is giving the ball away and being so upset they frown.
Everton need to rebuild from the foundations. That means clearing out Finch Farm by removing every ex player, every hanger on and employing only a manager and players who want to be here. You can pay me £10m for that if you want, Mr Mosh - it will save you loads.
126 Posted 02/06/2021 at 17:07:25
Joke of a club. If you thought Carlo played dull football wait and see.
127 Posted 02/06/2021 at 17:20:13
128 Posted 02/06/2021 at 17:55:57
Who knows when we'll be able to resume normal life again as we knew it, but when it does happen a long holiday losing balls to water hazards around Ireland and Scotland sounds pretty heavenly to be honest.
129 Posted 02/06/2021 at 17:59:23
Can I still come for the social Derek? I'll watch!
130 Posted 02/06/2021 at 18:02:37
"Every club has different goals. Real Madrid's goal is to win the Champions League and La Liga. Everton's goal is to try to get a European spot, and a few years ago it was to stay in the Premier League." -
It sounds like Carlo thought he had been a success at Goodison, obviously another of those that believe that football was invented in 1992. BTW Carlo, Real Madrid's aim is/was to form a league where clubs like Everton would never ever be involved, regardless of their performances on the pitch.
Football has changed in these last five years - it is more aggressive and organised. But our idea remains the same - to play attacking, spectacular football - what this clubs history and fans demand.”
131 Posted 02/06/2021 at 18:04:55
The direction is bizarre. Ancelotti serial winner to Nuno who isn't. I know last season wasn't great but a 3 at the back man will just depress us.
132 Posted 02/06/2021 at 18:08:53
You can read that 2 ways.
Firstly take it offensively and belittling to a club with Everton's standing.
Secondly, a reality check from someone who has won at the highest level and has now been seen the insides of our club.
With you on the Super League; made my views very clear on that.
133 Posted 02/06/2021 at 18:55:06
It wasn't just the quality of the football, but the fact he seemed bereft of ideas as how to correct the situation. I agree that it is blessing, and not so much "in disguise" either.
The fact remains though that it is only a genuine blessing if we can get the next appointment somewhat right. I would agree that Pochettino is out of scope, which is a shame, as he is a fabulous coach. The same seems to apply to Brendan Rogers.
So who is in scope? The list I have seen is extremely unappetizing. I may be in favour of appointing a stop gap and not rushing in to another mistake. It could be big Dunc, but if so, be prepared for knocking the ball long and 9 players waiting for the knock down which can be more exciting than it sounds!
134 Posted 02/06/2021 at 19:00:21
More likely is that the Ancelotti family (and Big Dunc) couldn't always inspire these players because they (the players) didn't buy into Carlo's project – just as we didn't.
I don't think it requires a magician to give us a sight of Europe. Just an ordinary straight-up guy who can get more out of a decent set of blokes home and away. Moyes or Nuno will do.
135 Posted 02/06/2021 at 19:15:36
Wolves fans hate the guy and if it's Moyes that divides our fan base. Does it matter though? We are a small club with a poor playing staff; Norman Wisdom would be perfect as our head coach.
136 Posted 02/06/2021 at 19:56:47
137 Posted 02/06/2021 at 20:21:40
Real Madrid are at the centre of european and world club football. Despite his honeyed words about the Everton club and its fan base, we simply did not compete with the glamour of Real Madrid.
Whoever I want as our next manager it doesn't really matter. Moshiri, Kenwright et alia will make the decision. My opinion and that of the supporters is totally irrelevant.
When they appoint whoever, we'll write to ToffeeWeb, expressing our hopes for next season, our dreams and our fears and it will all begin again.
Thank God, I'm old enough to have seen three great Everton teams, but younger fans have seen very little success and I fear that with the present situation, they won't be seeing any in the near future.
138 Posted 02/06/2021 at 20:22:25
139 Posted 02/06/2021 at 20:36:00
We also have to remember a premier league manager staying at the same club is for 11 years without winning anything has only happened at Everton FC. The club continues to be laughing stock season after season. Carlo wasn't going to turn Real, or any of the giants down.
140 Posted 02/06/2021 at 20:53:12
The squad is not that far away with the right additions. So now we look to the future, and hope its the near future that we challange. And not for Europe like Carlo says but for the league title.
Amazes me that these lottery winning managers get millions for failure. Lets face it, if Nuno gets the Everton job it means he got the sack and a huge payoff from Wolves... and a few weeks later he gets a huge payrise off Everton. Poor guy. I actually do like him. Losses hurt. If we get him he could go for Neto. If Moyes comes, we could go for Lingard.
Whatever. Jumpers for goalposts.
141 Posted 02/06/2021 at 20:53:40
142 Posted 02/06/2021 at 21:43:03
I was allowed to work remotely for a few months due to COVID and was finally getting to know my baby nephew. I'll never forget him smiling and laughing as I held him and screamed and jumped up and down at each goal and at the final whistle. He'd just started speech therapy and was saying "two" and "Blue," too. So yeah, this season ended in disappointment, and Carlo's departure rubbed salt in the wound, but I'll always have that memory.
So what I'm saying is: Carlo's gone; what's done is done. Let's just move forward and hope we can stick it to everyone next season, no matter who's in the dugout. COYB!
143 Posted 02/06/2021 at 21:53:07
Any Evertonian who has ever been to a match will tell you that in the season just gone, Everton havent played a home game.
Similarly if anyone mentions how good we have been away then that also doesnt wash for me.
For the last season, our games have been played in sterile, soulless, neutral stadia and I for one think that the presence of the Goodison faithful would have undoubtedly seen us finish in the european places.
The question is would that have been enough to keep our previous manager interested once Real Madrid came calling.
My guess is no, it would not.
I bumped into a famous (infamous) blue whilst parked up in traffic earlier today who I wont name. We briefly discussed the events of the last 24 hours at our club and he hit the nail on the head by simply saying - “ He is a rat a rat in cool Italian clobber, but still a rat.”
144 Posted 02/06/2021 at 23:02:26
145 Posted 02/06/2021 at 23:53:23
146 Posted 03/06/2021 at 09:52:17
147 Posted 03/06/2021 at 11:03:39
I would like Eddie Howe to get the job,
148 Posted 03/06/2021 at 11:32:08
Funny how this money has seemingly appeared for a club experiencing serious financial difficulties and one of the driving forces behind ESL. Like Barcelona, RM needed ESL to sort out there apparently perilous money problems. (They must be much more acute at Barca as they seem not be able to sack the loathsome Koeman!)
RM and Spanish government coming to some sort of understanding YET AGAIN. If you think British Governments are dubious in their financial actions, they are minute compared to Spain, a country with with its apathy to the horrendous longstanding youth unemployment!
149 Posted 03/06/2021 at 12:15:24
To fight the unbeatable foe
To bear with unbearable sorrow
To run where the brave dare not go
Well my new impossible dream after not being able to deliver on the one I used to have about Babs Lord in 1970 when I started teaching training college. (Youngsters will have to google that name but the post-retirement age ToffeeWebbers may well agree with me and have a warm feeling somewhere personal).
To dream the impossible dream
To stuff Ancelotti's Blancos Corruptos
On the banks of the Royal Blue Mersey
Sitting proud in the Bramley Moore Wall
Apologies to the late, great crooner Andy Williams!
150 Posted 03/06/2021 at 12:25:50
Can you imagine a club in the UK or anywhere seemingly getting funded by the establishment as the rumours over the years suggest they have been?
But stepping back from my unqualified political rhetoric, back to your point. Whoever the manager is, give them the players. It's the players who do it. The manager just organises what he has available at his disposal. Yes he can tweak, improve and squeeze results. But you can only manage what you've got.
The best teams win things with the best players. Then the manager takes plaudits for that and carries on managing the teams with the best players.
151 Posted 03/06/2021 at 12:33:03
152 Posted 03/06/2021 at 12:48:21
It's we judge what we see on the pitch. You make a great point about fans being less demanding. My word my father used to rant like the best of them if Everton didn't perform, so I'll use a twist on words, fans in the main are now less understanding of what happens on the pitch.
But you make a very valid point. Previous generations we're not totally obsessed by results like many of the modern era support base is. We knew and know a good and honest performance when we see it and ultimately go to be entertained first and foremost. Well I do anyway. The result isn't and wasn't everything. If you get the performances right, the results will come. Focus on the performance.
You're right, the richer clubs and teams will naturally pivot towards the top of the pyramid but its about what you do on the pitch that matters ultimately and how you do it that will satisfy the fans. That's what we go to watch, most of us still dreaming that we can be on that pitch doing it ourselves, despite the passing years!!
Wise words as always John.
153 Posted 03/06/2021 at 14:21:16
154 Posted 03/06/2021 at 15:03:18
File him next to Koeman. Overpaid, overrated, uninterested.
155 Posted 03/06/2021 at 16:15:39
156 Posted 03/06/2021 at 20:20:37
Taking out all the personal matters that have impacted his private life, since February,which wont be held against him, on football based matters did he have an escape clause in his contract? Real Madrid have some. Pulling power but the club is a right mess financially and with UEFA.
Was he an untouchable so much the Everton board didnt make a stand, or was the board glad he weaseled out, before they had to sack him, by 10/2021, due to dire form home and away?
Theres more to the defection than will, be disclosed by Everton, but as supporters we are entitled to know.
Six weeks ago he was condoning the dirty dozen, and perhaps that was his foil. to dupe the Everton board.
My view now is for a German based manager, but that may not happen..
Conte has a good track record but would be two frenzied years, maximum, then, hed also do Carlo.
Does any one know if Moyses has a get out clause at West Ham?
Hopefully the Everton board will act swiftly so a new era can start for Evertonians and we move on.
The lives and times of Evertonians, are always interesting, is this the most unsettled period in the clubs history in terms of manager turn over,, if so its time for some stability and hopefully some proper loyalty to Everton.
157 Posted 04/06/2021 at 05:27:01
But from hind sight I think I am relief that we are not splashing big bucks around for lime lights players.
I do belief Carlo was intended to have a longer term project by bringing Everton back to Europe as a start. Perhaps after a good while he can see the true picture that it is not simply getting a few players in can move us up. Something more in the team, let it be culture or attitude, that is so bad which is beyond repair in short term. He's afraid of his reputation being tarnished further so jump ship when a respectable club calls. And so lucky it's RM he must be over the moon.
Anyway, forget about getting in a World-class manager. There's no short term fix.
158 Posted 04/06/2021 at 07:56:33
159 Posted 04/06/2021 at 11:19:46
Your post has encouraged me to respond to the present situation at Everton. Over the past number of years there have been many Evertonians threatening to "Never watch another game". I, like yourself, can understand the frustrations of the many younger Evertonians who have NEVER seen their team win anything. However there are millions of supporters around the United Kingdom supporting teams that are very unlikely to ever win any major honour.
I still enjoy watching football at any level.Obviously my main focus and life time love affair is with Everton. That will continue whether they win or lose. Winning is far more enjoyable but life itself is dealing with losses. Recently I have been watching the lower league playoffs. Observing the passion of the supporters is fascinating amusing and very enjoyable.
It does not matter which teams I have observed their support is just as ardent and deep as supporters of Everton, Juventus, Barcelona and so on and so on. Fans may feel that you have to win the Premier League or one of Footballs highest awards to feel ANY sense of achievement. Quite unrealistic for 99% of football followers. Morcambe supporters are sky high because they are going up to League One. Their most ardent fans will continue to be delighted until they may be relegated, and those same fans will have to readjust to the loss. BUT they will still watch THEIR team.
Right now and realistically Everton are very unlikely to win the Premier league next season. In fact we have to readjust to the fact that we are unlikely to win the Prem any time soon. Today we have to enjoy each individual game and the highs are provided by beating any of the top teams. I sadly smile to myself because last season we had difficulty beating anyone at home.
I hope we are able to hire ANY manager who can inspire the team. Players need inspiration. I was delighted when we hired Ancelotti, but he showed himself to be a "Paper Tiger". I actually think he just gave up. Everton fans never want a leader who throws in the towel so weakly. I think he proved that he cannot handle the stress of being a loyal Evertonian. I will support the new Manager whoever he is or wherever he is from, as long as he immediately becomes an Evertonian.He will probably promise the sky, but we may have to be satisfied with the moon.
I really do look forward to next season as a supporter of EVERTON. However I am certainly no better than any supporter of any team. I always have hopes for a new beginning and a willingness to give our new manager a fair chance. I embrace the present and look forward to the future, but mainly because I have enjoyed the past. I cannot stay in the past because it is gone. I stay realistic but expect Everton to win the first Twenty games of the new season OR... we will have to fire the manager. We are good at that.
160 Posted 04/06/2021 at 17:17:02
161 Posted 04/06/2021 at 18:57:57
162 Posted 04/06/2021 at 19:03:51
It was 5-4. a proper game of footy...He lost interest when the second went in. The players clearly hadnt listened to him
163 Posted 04/06/2021 at 19:07:46
Patrick Boyland of the Athletic, has stated that Everton was recompensed for Ancelotti's move to Madrid.
164 Posted 04/06/2021 at 19:14:38
And nice touch Trevor, let's not move on to Anthony Newley though, okay?
165 Posted 04/06/2021 at 19:22:27
166 Posted 04/06/2021 at 19:25:13
167 Posted 04/06/2021 at 19:28:31
I can't confirm the actual figure but I did hear that a six-month pass to a Liverpool Ladies Gym and a twelve-month voucher for a Dog's Kennel was on the table. Negotiations went on long into the night :)
168 Posted 04/06/2021 at 19:50:18
169 Posted 04/06/2021 at 20:33:46
170 Posted 04/06/2021 at 22:12:00
1. As RM knew that it was almost certain that ZZ was leaving.at the end of the season, would RM have announced this after only a couple of days to consider their options?
2. Does CA expect us to believe that he had not been sounded out much earlier?
3. Does CA expect us to believe that no other manager in the top echelons would have been in the running and that it has all come out the blue especially as they have already sacked him once?
4. If Barca had sacked Koeman and come calling would he have gone there?
5. Did he suspect that the EFC board realised that they had made a mistake especially when they had seen nearly relegated Brighton playing with style and desire, that somehow he had extinguished at EFC?
6. Has Moshiri seen the light that he has been paying this con-man nearly £1 million a month and his son/support team god knows what to be Fat Sam #2?
7, Has the penny dropped that the future of EFC is not in buying Ancellotti's older, crocked former players? Both Doucouré and Ben Godfrey were long term targets of the club's DoF Marcel Brands?
9. Have Arsenal dodged the bullet as its seems he would also have walked out for the lure of RM based on their distinctly untypical form this season?
10. Now, are we realising why he never stays for more than two years at any club as he clearly can not build a team for the future?
171 Posted 05/06/2021 at 08:46:09
He is now the Unforgiven. Not just for leaving us but leaving us the way he did, forever more damaging his image and our club.
If Rob Halligans insight into the bollicking the team allegedly got by Brands, it's clear some will have to go by their own volition or sold anyway. Too big a set of egos for our club.
Whoever gets the seat will need to clear it all up, but it has to be done. Thankfully Ancelotti has gone before he could do more damage. We move on, uncovering the mercenary nature of a so called grand statesman of the game. For so much money, he will say anything you need to hear, for a little more he will go, such was his loyalty, non existent. No pride. No shame. No passion, No loyalty, No commitment.
172 Posted 05/06/2021 at 12:48:54
173 Posted 05/06/2021 at 12:54:06
174 Posted 05/06/2021 at 13:19:56
sad though it is, I think you are right to focus on how miserably Ancelotti has treated everyone. He really was given a king's welcome, besides the money. And he left with the words 'chasing for Europe is Everton's target, a few years before that it was staying in the Premier League'. I can't forgive him for that, more than the utterly direst of dire playing styles.
In hindsight, some of his pronouncements were just too treacly, we should have known we were being played 'do you know Crosby', 'Everton is a club full of love'.
175 Posted 05/06/2021 at 18:25:09
Your response is as expected. I also think we view football in much the same way. Money now defines football more than it ever did. It has glamorized the top players to movie idol fame. Unfortunately too many of them like being on those pedestals and forget where they came from. They may also be inclined to forget that those large gold filled pay packets are due to the millions of supporters who pay serious money to watch them.
I, personally, was very suspicious just prior to the Premier league forming. However those super wealthy business men behind the league obviously knew far more about making money than I do. What is now the "World Super League" has increased attendances significantly. Top players from around the world all want to at least sample the Prem and in most cases remain in the league for their whole career. However as is said,"Money is the root of all evil" and along with the positives there are many NEGATIVES. Competition has limited the number of teams who have any chance of EVER winning the Premier League. Home grown British players have to now to take a back seat due to the HUGE influx of super star players from overseas. Salaries are way up to the point of being ridiculous. AND it is not just the players as the Ancelotti situation has proved.
CHRISTINE (171) You superbly assessed just how disappointing the whole thing was regarding Ancelotti. But I agree that now that it has happened we have to realise that he may have done more harm by staying on. I honestly think he had lost ther plot and really had given up. I don't think it is as complicated as some folks might think.The real job of helping Everton was far too DIFFICULT for him. He had become just like the Crosby Statues that he said he admired.
One final point that amuses me mainly because I always try to look on the funny side of supporting Everton. You mentioned that Darren was right all the time. I must say that I am one of those who follow and enjoy Darren's posts. BUT from observations I actually feel that he does not like anybody who has had any sort of a leadership position at Everton over the last 27 years if not longer.It has been easy to be negative about our beloved "Blues" due to the lack of success over a long period of time so Darren was destined to stay a winner.
Back to John Mc. Football WAS more exciting many years ago. The inconsistencies of the old football league led to more unexpected happenings. We get far less surprises today. Unfortunately only CERTAIN teams are likely to win the honors. However we do have to move on with the present and all the changes and all the money have not stopped me enjoying football. The fact that I can still throw tantrums when Everton lose or Holgate gives away a soft goal keeps me alive and kicking. The fact that I despise a certain team in RED as much as I did when I was eight is also proof of my irrational obsession with EVERTON. My long suffering wife just thinks that I am "daft". So Simple !!!
176 Posted 05/06/2021 at 18:38:55
but don't worry that nice Scottish bloke you liked might come back.
177 Posted 05/06/2021 at 19:03:53
His leaving might be a good thing for the club in the long-run but short-term it feels like the fit bird we pulled 18 months ago came to her senses and ran-off with Ryan Gosling.
178 Posted 05/06/2021 at 19:16:10
Not sure Carlo did give us credibility a higher profile perhaps but the overwhelming response beyond Evertonland was puzzlement.
A chorus of "told ya" is now echoing throughout the football world.
179 Posted 05/06/2021 at 19:16:12
Told us he loved us so
What a Pinocchio
An utter twatio
Europe talk a fable, ended up mid-table
Fled to Madrid and left us on the floor
What a sham worse than Sam
Theyll bin him off once more
A horses head for your bed
Delivered to your door
180 Posted 05/06/2021 at 19:35:57
I like that you can tell me how I have felt for the past 27 years. I've been posting on here for less than a fifth of that time.
I didnt call this right. Nobody did. Nobody saw Ancelotti leaving at this juncture.
You say I'M negative. thats your opinion. I say you most are.
The one thing that has really really annoyed me all season is people (like you) seeing and proclaiming themselves as "positive"
Supporting, excusing, apologising for. The dross we have been served up isn't being positive...Its just about the most negative thing an Evertonian could have done.... If you excuse it, you deserve it.
There are a few on here who have never quite worked out the difference between being positive and being wrong.
Happy clappers are not positive. They are just eternally wrong
181 Posted 05/06/2021 at 20:09:11
182 Posted 05/06/2021 at 21:25:54
You do really rise to the bait. You are so often the "Fisherman ", complete with barbs happy to lure the "Naive Suckers". I had mentioned that I actually enjoyed your posts. I was not being sarcastic. Aren't posts meant to be an individual's point of view so there are bound to be disagreements. Just a few points.
(1). Please reread my post. I did not suggest that you had been on Toffee Web for 27 years. I suggested that you were COMMENTING on the last 27 years. The 27 was picked from the sky. It could have been 12,13,19 whatever. 27 just sounded more "amusing". My fault in trying to make "poor,sad Evertonians". like yourself smile.
(2). You are so right that I am positive. I have far too much to be very very positive about. I can shout this from the Highest mountain or the lowest valley. I have a wonderful wife, three super adult children and six loving healthy grandchildren.My two adult sons are John Everton and Andrew Goodison. I am a "Blue" who is rarely blue in spirit.
(3)I am as "Evertonian" as any person who posts on here. I agree with you that we have been very very mislead over too many years. I am just as disappointed, annoyed and extremely frustrated as you obviously are. I just don't let it show on a daily basis
(4) My Everton frustrations will NEVER intrude on me to the extent that I ever become negative. When Everton lose or play badly I am never a "Happy Clapper", but surely you are able to come out of your shell of to see the ridiculous side of supporting Everton or any other team for that matter
(5)I had mentioned my wife. Soimething that
normally I would never include on Toffee Web. Fortunately she is my "sanity balance" when things are not so good. She says that following football is ridiculous in itself. She has heard me rant on about Everton, ToffeeWebbers, including Darren Hind for over fifty years.She is so right
(6) Despite your response I will always remain positive. Positivity is as state of mind. I have far too much to smile about, including your recent post. I repeat again if football supporters CANNOT look at themselves in the mirror and decide that there are many aspects of following football that are ludicrous then they probably need a good strong Scotch.
(7)Finally I do not have the slightest doubt that you are just as much an Evertonian as any one. I look to next season with a positive mind. I want success as much a you do. I am very positive about being positive. I am even being positive in saying that I am positive that we will NOT win the Prem next season. Sorry if that makes me sound negative. We may have more in common than you may think, even "Happy Clappers" are also Evertonians.
(8) P.S, Darren is there a "Happy Clappers" Club ? Please let me know I would like to join. Or I could join your club,"The Sad as Shit Sorrowful Club" Do they meet on every Friday the 13th ?...Perhaps Ancelotti is their new President. SMILE WHILE YOUR HEART IS ACHING as the song goes.
183 Posted 05/06/2021 at 21:36:00
Negative posters who throw shit at all things Everton every day.
The Happy Crappers
184 Posted 05/06/2021 at 21:49:31
Some know and accept that things are pretty shit but still attempt to look for some glint of hope so they're not completely suicidal.
Some do, try to put a positive spin on even the worst of cases simply because the alternative is feeling completely miserable and at times, with Everton, heart broken.
It's not about being right or wrong, despite what some would have us believe, it's about how an individual deals with things.
And opinions can't be wrong because they're just opinions.
Whether you're positive or negative it doesn't actually change the club's predicament, just maybe changes the way you feel day to day.
And by the way I hope Ancelotti's next shite is a hedgehog!
185 Posted 05/06/2021 at 23:10:43
186 Posted 05/06/2021 at 23:10:43
Was it a case of:
Ancelotti knew he couldn't do the job in getting Everton to Europe.
His daughter pleading with her Father to quit after the robbery.
Not being able to get on with Brands.
Being told by Moshiri, that this season was just not good enough.
Knowing that he would need to get off to a flyer in the new season or be sacked.
Who the fuck knows, but in my opinion Ancelotti is a fucking coward in taking the the Real Madrid job.
Our "hollywood" manager will I'm sure come out with something in the next weeks which will be interesting.
Ancelotti quitting has without doubt set us back in terms of club profile and attracting top players, and we now start again.
I'd be very surprised if Rodriquez returns to the club..
The contract situation seems to be crowded in mystery !
Apparently we receive zero compensation from Real Madrid because of a clause in there which let Ancelotti walk away if "certain clubs" come in for him/
If true it is a fucking joke and once again we are looking quite amateurish to say the least.
I don't have a clue who the next manager should be, and I suspect the club don't either, no matter who it is, he will have a tough job on his hands.
187 Posted 05/06/2021 at 23:53:15
I'll wager our Mosh has oft pondered the cause of the dull ache in his nethers ever since he bought in though.
Not that I'm qualified to advise him but maybe if he ignored all the football advice he gets off everyone but Brands, albeit the bloke's Moshiri's choice too, he might just discover who in his boardroom might have a case to answer.
If Brands alone doesn't measure up with full control, sack him in two years time (and I'll never understand the bizarre decision to make the DoF a board member) or, if we re-enter panic mode, before then.
And if he's not been doing a great job, just what have the other three on the board been doing to correct things?
Nothing or ineffective? Then what's their point?
Something effective but ignored? Then what's their point?
It takes a man to admit a mistake Mr Mosh, and a big man to swallow the expense he's caused. It shouldn't take a genius though to realise that major change is due from the cabal who profess to run our football club.
188 Posted 05/06/2021 at 00:20:38
Cest La Vie, its happened too often.
If the Everton board dont learn from this Italian Job, heist, and my other concerns lie in what could be a building heist type sting, in terms of BMD construction.
Lol, but lets hope for all Evertonians sanity, that some genuinely stability can be brought into Everton., as a club and supporters of all ages, time waits for no one.
I lament on the last three decades of failure and this century has been lamentable to date in terms of real achievement for Everton.
But the next manager must be appointed on the right merits and I dont think at any time in Evertons history has this been so critical, for the right manager to be appointed.
But we live in hope eternal.
189 Posted 06/06/2021 at 02:52:15
Too many years of bad management on and off the field have led too many of us to stop believing, stop hoping. But if you fall off the bike you get up and give it another go. My knees are skinned, my elbows bloodied and the bumps on my head need feeling, but hells bells, we are Everton. We don't fail. We don't give up. We still believe.
PS.. I did laugh at the Happy Crappers Club though Thomas...
190 Posted 06/06/2021 at 03:49:30
Great post. I got drawn into far too many repetitive debates on here with Darren and Ian over the last 12 months explaining my belief that Carlo was and would continue to take us forward. I cant be bothered with equally endless debates over the “why” he left. The fact is hes gone, just like everyone from Dixie Dean to Nyarko who came before him and his era will be best remembered as unremarkable.
Im looking to the future, my new Everton shirt arrived today from the UK. I boldly ordered one that is slightly tight, gives me an incentive to improve my waistline while hoping that the shape of the club also improves. Onwards and upwards. COYB
191 Posted 06/06/2021 at 04:15:27
I thought the hiring of Martinez, Allardyce and Silva were poor decisions, but was willing to give each a chance. Ancelotti hadnt even got his track suit m before he was getting criticised.
You will notice that Darren and Ian have refused to name their preferred choice for the new manager despite being pushed - and they will never do it. That would put them on the spike for backing someone who might fail.
192 Posted 06/06/2021 at 04:46:31
I know. Ive come to accept theyre like those two old blokes heckling the muppets. If they just assume the worst, eventually theyll be able to say “we lost, I was right.” I cant be arsed with them any more as you cant argue with logic that at some point something will go wrong, be it one game, one month, one season etc.
193 Posted 05/06/2021 at 06:23:37
The fact that you feel the need to proclaim yourself positive says everything.
I spent most of last season reading people angrily attacking criticism of what, quite frankly was a season of relentless shite They shouted down anybody who criticised the manager. I saw one guy roundly abused and vilified for stating the blindingly obvious about the stuff we were witnessing.
I saw excuse after excuse for the zombie football we had to endure
I saw just about every player abused and criticised.
I saw the owner crticised.
I saw the back room staff criticised
I saw young players criticised
I saw excuses ranging from the slope on the pitch to direction of the wind
I saw people claim Carlo had improved players only to hammer those same players next time we lost.
I saw people who didnt buy into this shite called non Evertonians.
I saw people claim repeated claim we were seeing a dramatic improvement.
I saw every excuse under the sun put forward in defence of a man who was blatantly taking the piss. I saw just about everyone else thrown under a bus.
I saw people do all of the above on a weekly basis and still declare themselves "positive".
I've said it often; We must have the most miserable self proclaimed positive's in world football.
I didnt "rise to the bait" there was no bait. You just thought you could use me to make yourself seem all glass half full, Mr Blue sky. I don't know you I have never addressed you.
I thank god that I have a good life, Good enough to be able to understand reality without putting some kind empty headed "positive spin" on things that are shite. I don't need to lie to myself.
For your information there was no winners here. We all lost.
ctiticise a manager who fleeced the club, served up the worst football in memory, lied to his fanboys, proved them wrong at every turn and eventually slapped them in the face with total betrayal = Negative
Throw everyone else under a bus to defend the charlatan who has so Royally taken the piss = Positive.
Positive ?.......Try deluded.
194 Posted 06/06/2021 at 06:40:02
People who simply were not responded to, claiming to be involved in "repetitive debates"... Not with me they werent. Debate is a two way thing. I'd rather debate with people who think for themselves.
Just happy Ancelotti has gone. Perhaps now everyone will start supporting the club rather than fawn all over a manager they felt we were lucky to have.
195 Posted 06/06/2021 at 06:59:59
Had a debate into the night with my brother last night. He grew up on the Moyes era, so it's interesting hearing the type of player he thinks we need compared to mine, arguably based on over-expectation.
But then it's not over-expectation. As you say Christine, we never stop believing or hoping. Blindly maybe, but never stop.
You'll be fine with that new top Kieran. Another week of this and the associated sleep deprivation and lack of eating properly through worry and over thinking and you'll be wearing it like a Premier League athlete!
196 Posted 06/06/2021 at 07:24:49
Tell us who Everton should hire as our next manager?
197 Posted 06/06/2021 at 07:24:59
Darren, remember, some of us want to see you in your pinny when you take up baking and try to out do Paul Hollywood. I will deffo be one of your happy-clappers.
198 Posted 06/06/2021 at 09:58:17
199 Posted 06/06/2021 at 10:12:08
200 Posted 06/06/2021 at 10:23:15
You don't debate with anybody on TW.
If they don't share your opinion you call them" fanboys Sycophants. Happy clappers... Sun readers etc, etc.
You posted yesterday that you had been on TW for around five years.
Show us one debate you have had in that period with someone of the opposite viewpoint to yourself.
201 Posted 06/06/2021 at 10:25:28
Regards Carsley, he's currently with England under 20's and I do know he has been on coaching trips with former manager Moyes over here in Ireland.
202 Posted 06/06/2021 at 10:39:53
The most positive thing those of the "positivity club" can do is send £50 quid apiece to these victims of attempted bullying even though each of them saw the cabal off with ease.
Bullying is never a good look - don't do it again
203 Posted 06/06/2021 at 10:53:00
I think that is the sound of silence from both of Darren and Ian on who should be the next Everton manager. Perplexed at why the question is such a challenge, but never mind.
204 Posted 06/06/2021 at 11:22:22
205 Posted 06/06/2021 at 11:30:26
206 Posted 06/06/2021 at 11:31:10
Regardless of whether we were in the pro or anti Ancelotti camp, we are all now in the same position and the realisation that the Ancelotti of 2020/2021 was either incapable or unwilling to make a difference at Everton should have firmly sunk in with both factions.
The king may well find a new set of clothes in Spain where someone has left him a better wardrobe but he spent 18 months walking around Liverpool as bollock naked as the statues he so greatly admired.
207 Posted 06/06/2021 at 11:41:57
But it's not diversion if either said they quite like the look of "x" and x was appointed then failed the wounded ego crew would go into meltdown along the lines of -
"YOU SAID HE WAS DEFINITELY THE ANSWER AND EFFECTIVELY SAID YOU HAD A BIGGER COCK. YOU ALSO CAUSED THE PANDEMIC YOU EFFIN' CNT"
And other rational musings
208 Posted 06/06/2021 at 12:00:06
But don't use it as a rule.
209 Posted 06/06/2021 at 12:55:22
210 Posted 06/06/2021 at 13:00:30
211 Posted 06/06/2021 at 13:29:02
I might get them to talk to Moshiri.
212 Posted 06/06/2021 at 14:29:35
With thanks to John Boon (#182 and elsewhere above) I think Dazza should indeed create a "Happy Clappers Club".
I suggest this for the theme song, my slightly adapted lyrics below;
Match crap, so poor
Happy-clappers scream for more
At Ancelottis poison door
Twenty-first century schizoid man
Get Dunc, use fire
Zombie footballs funeral pyre
‘Cept for fan-boy fulltime liars
Twenty-first century schizoid man
Bill seeds blind man's greed
Dazzas starving, well in need
Of ToffeeWebbers' daily feed
Twenty-first century schizoid man!
213 Posted 06/06/2021 at 14:52:04
Good effort that.
Not my kinda music but credit where credit is due
214 Posted 06/06/2021 at 14:59:24
What a player. Best centre half in the Prem by a country mile.
215 Posted 06/06/2021 at 17:17:25
You are so "Trump Like" with your vicious angrily written bullying assertive drivel. Your attempts to undermine anybody who has the nerve to consider themselves as positive is truly pathetic.
I do not come on ToffeeWeb nearly as often as you do. When I do it is usually to try to make fellow Evertonians smile at the ridiculousness of supporting Everton or any other football team. Your responses actually prove my point.
You are just as deluded as all the "Happy Clappers" you spend far too much time heaping your scorn upon. I WILL NOT respond any more. I agree that this is a somewhat pathetic finale but I consider it an "Evertonian " honour to be one of those who "Darren" has considered as disposable waste. I am POSITIVE of that.
216 Posted 06/06/2021 at 18:21:51
You should take the advise you were actually not offered and ignore me. You sought me out. I have never do that with anybody
Now you want to play the victim.. You hate your self proclaimed positivity being questioned. Especially as it comes from somebody you consider negative.
Just to put you straight; You didnt just make a small comment about Darren Hind. You judged a stranger you know nothing about in order to impress somebody else and you are now complaining that said stranger has returned. your unprovoked fire.
217 Posted 06/06/2021 at 18:28:04
John Boon 215 Spot on
218 Posted 06/06/2021 at 19:01:24
219 Posted 06/06/2021 at 19:02:46
I know it, you know it and most ToffeeWebbers know it.
220 Posted 06/06/2021 at 19:19:14
Its like asking someone to name a winner of a horse race before entrants are declared.
If those who repeatedly demand a name hammer away at want to play that game. Why don't they name their own ?
"The wounded ego crew"...Ouch
221 Posted 06/06/2021 at 19:24:22
And knows it.
"is right Ian.
Well in Mr Rathbone."
222 Posted 06/06/2021 at 19:30:30
For Everton right now, this is for real, with huge implications.
223 Posted 06/06/2021 at 19:44:07
Preferences are not predictions.
224 Posted 06/06/2021 at 19:51:56
225 Posted 06/06/2021 at 20:18:51
Is that a joke?
I dont know who the next manager is but I hate him already
226 Posted 06/06/2021 at 20:26:17
Relax before you desert for Edinburgh.
Oh and BTW A "preference" would mean ?
Until I know if the fella who sells the hot dogs is throwing his hat into the ring. I`m steering clear of the hypothetical
227 Posted 06/06/2021 at 21:04:07
A preference could or would refer to a style of play or approach you would like to see, ie plays fast,open footie..
In detailing the preference of style is then looking at those managers in your opinion, who embrace that particular style and hence why you believe if selected, why they would or could be good for the club..
Are they available? Would they come? What are the pros and cons of each, that's the debate. Now over the years one could say we keep getting it massively wrong, but apart from Silva, the last few managers are not sitting in the dugouts of Sc**thorpe on a cold wet night are they? Which would appear to ask the uncomfortable question why if we all believe they are so bad for the club, aren't they sitting in the said Sc**thorpe and not at the world's best clubs or world now national team? To me that is the real question here..
Until that little plum is found it makes anyone's selection, pure luck or doomed to failure.. We don't appear to have a structure that supports the effort to achieve excellence, if we did then one or more of these already hired managers should have succeeded. The scary thing is that we appear to be ignoring that aspect of our club culture that allows it to happen.
Is it too comfortable for too many? Is it run like a business or a family?
Too many cooks in the kitchen?
I don't know but surely before anyone is selected, someone has to do the inquest and find out exactly why we are were we are to stop it happening again. Only then can the club truly move forward.
228 Posted 07/06/2021 at 00:13:03
229 Posted 07/06/2021 at 00:38:16
The answers, up to thirty years ago at least, have eluded anyone in charge of our club, provably.
Those in charge have always had to be accountable though, now more than ever, but up to now they've seemed oblivious of this, whether or not they've been in a London theatre, a tax haven (or two, or three) in the Caribbean (or elsewhere), or in a luxury apartment in Monaco.
Time for a change I think.
230 Posted 07/06/2021 at 00:52:41
231 Posted 08/06/2021 at 22:49:23
The way things are going,certain posters may get their wish with Big Dunc getting the nod,add in the big fella from Deeside along side him and we could be going places...starting in Sunny Florida!.
Oh the joy...COYB
232 Posted 10/06/2021 at 18:48:49
233 Posted 10/06/2021 at 18:54:25
234 Posted 10/06/2021 at 18:55:24
235 Posted 10/06/2021 at 19:05:25
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