Farcical goal seals undeserved historic win for Carlo Fantastico

Michael Kenrick 23/04/2021 599comments  |  Jump to last

Dominic Calvert-Lewin is fit according to Carlo Ancelotti along with Yerry Mina, André Gomes, Bernard and Fabian Delph

Everton return to action on Friday evening with a trip to Arsenal in the latest installment of their faltering quest for the Holy Grail of European football next season.

A first win for the Toffees on Arsenal turf in 25 years would put some distance between the two clubs and reduce Mikel Arteta's prospects of finishing his first season overseeing European qualification.

Ancelotti is able to field Dominic Calvert-Lewin for the first time since the 1-1 draw with Crystal Palace earlier this month. The striker has been troubled by an adductor complaint.

Him slotting back in alongside Richarlison means he should share the onus for goalscoring with the Brazilian and restore some of that aerial threat up front that has been missing in his absence.

André Gomes also starts but Yerry Mina is on the bench, as is Fabian Delph, Bernard and Tom Davies, and strangely only one goalkeeper, but Michael Keane is absent from the squad altogether.

Everton kicked off in their own inimitable fashion with the hoof upfield that rapidly lost possession. Arsenal's attack was slow to develop but came close to an early goal when it did, needing a vital interception in the air from Godfrey to clear the ball off Nketiah's head.

Arsenal may have been missing players but they still showed threatening fluidity going forward. While Sigurdsson put in a decent free-kick that Godfrey could not get to. Digne overlapped well off a good ball forward from Sigurdsson and got a good cross in for Calvert-Lewin but he could not get away from his marker and was forced to head behind.

James Rodriguez was struggling for any impact on the game, having to drop very deep and being marshaled well. Saka got a sight of goal but shot low at Pickford. Everton were moving the ball reasonably well but it wasn't creating any chances, while at the other end Nketiah and Saka were shooting on sight, thankfully blocked.

Almost half-an-hour before a slicing pass from Allan set up Richarlison for a shot but it was well saved by Leno and Calvert-Lewin could not follow up. We may have hoped for sweeping Everton dominance but once again the slow methodical build-up was not really working. A corner won from Gomes's deflected shot came to nothing as James struggled to create any space for a shot.

Thomas Partey clipped Richarlison to give up a dangerous set-piece and earn himself the game's first yellow card. Sigurdsson took command and clipped the top of the bar above Leno's hands. Close, but not close enough. Partey then fouled James, and that too should have been a second yellow, but of course it wasn't. This time, Digne could not get it over the wall.

The half drew to a close with the subdued tempo not really inspiring any great expectations from an almost full-strength Everton side that were ultimately massively disappointing in their abject failure to impose themselves on the game and deliver the required black eye to the Gunners.

No changes, of course from either manager. You have to believe that this boring and lifeless dross is intentional. James finally found a switch-ball opportunity but instead, Sigurdsson played it backwards and when Coleman tried to repat Monday's brilliant play, Sigurdsson was denied by the defender. The corners were ultimately wasted and the slow slog resumed.

James tried to make something from a deep set-piece but it was cleared and Digne could only fire his cross behind. Arsenal were going nowhere in reply when Richarlison clipped Ceballos on the shinpad and it was the softest penalty you could ever wish to see. But VAR also looked at offside and amazingly, the penalty was overruled. What a let-off!

There was then a clear hand-ball on Richarlison's cross but this time VAR gave Everton nothing, as Allan was given a soft yellow card.

At the other end, Holgate came close to beating his own keeper with a deft flick that went just the right side of the angle, Arsenal's best shot so far... The hour mark approached and Arsenal showed a bit more intent, winning a couple of corners that were defended well enough.

Pepe was bundled over by Holgate and writhed in agony, earning the Everton player a yellow card. Chambers seemed to have a great chance off the free-kick but volleyed into the turf. Everton had weathered something of a storm, and it was time for a sub: Delph on for Gomes... but wearing different socks!

But it was now one-way traffic, Ceballos firing in a good straight shot that Pickford batted away acrobatically to long leg. Delph's first contribution was a lazy foul on Smith-Rowe and a straight booking.

Saka tried to work his way around the back but the narrow angle made it an easy save for Pickford, but it was all Arsenal now, with Everton unable to counter. Everton had been totally dominated but Richarlison git past the last defender off a long ball from Holgate and Leno somehow allowed it to go through his hands and trickle over the line. Chicken walk for the Brazilian but his sot wasn't going on, so it's an own-goal by Leno (after the obligatory nerve-wracking VAR check for offside). Hilarious!

Could Everton now hold on for a historic if frankly laughable win? Arteta decided to call on Willian as the last roll of the dice with Everton now under no need to take any risks. It became a question of playing the ball around in their own half, so desperate were they not to concede.

Late subs weere the order of the day for Carlo Ancelotti's brilliant 'game-management' as the clock ticked away to 4 added minutes... Arsenal buzzing around like flies, searching to create something... anything.

Coleman got done by Martinelli but Pickford saved brilliantly loq to his left, one-handed. Absolutely brilliant by Everton's shot-stopper. And another snapshot had to be saved well although the whistle had already gone as Everton tried their best now to concede the win.

Kick-off: 8:00 pm, Friday 23 April 2021 on Sky Sports

Arsenal: Leno, Chambers (83' Willian), Holding, Pablo Mari, Xhaka, Partey [Y:38'], Ceballos, Pepe (74' Odegaard), Smith-Rowe, Saka, Nketiah (74' Martinelli).
Subs not Used: Bellerin, Gabriel, Cedric, Nelson, Elneny, Ryan.

Everton: Pickford, Coleman, Holgate, Godfrey, Digne, Gomes (66' Delph [Y:68']), Allan [Y:55'], Sigurdsson, James (87' Davies), Calvert-Lewin, Richarlison (89' Mina) .
Subs: Olsen,King, Iwobi, Nkounkou, Bernard, Broadhead.

Referee: Jon Moss
VAR: David Coote


Reader Comments (599)

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Mal van Schaick
1 Posted 23/04/2021 at 19:03:58
Holgate keeping his place is a joke.
Dave Abrahams
3 Posted 23/04/2021 at 19:08:30
Moss will be made up with Everton’s midfield, he’ll have no trouble keeping up with them.
Danny Broderick
4 Posted 23/04/2021 at 19:10:43
Looks like 4-2-3-1 to me. Seems reasonably balanced, I'm not convinced about Sigurdsson and Rodriguez in the same team though. For all of our best games at the start of the season, Sigurdsson was in the bench.

Let's wait and see anyway. I'm guessing Saka is at left back for them, their team doesn't look great to me...

Tony Everan
5 Posted 23/04/2021 at 19:11:19
Surprised Davies has been replaced by Gomes, I thought Tom and Allan played well together against Tottenham. But someone said Gomes has been flying in training so it will be interesting to see how he gets on.

COYBlueboys!!!

Simon Dalzell
6 Posted 23/04/2021 at 19:16:57
Much stronger looking team and bench than of late. Davies was excellent last game, so a bit sorry he's not starting. How calamity kid Holgate starts is beyond me, especially with the relatively inexperienced Godfrey alongside.
Richard Nelson
7 Posted 23/04/2021 at 19:21:23
He's picked the arrogant, gum-chewing Holgate... again. I can't believe it!?!
Neil Lawson
8 Posted 23/04/2021 at 19:22:05
Yesterday:

Davies should start....Davies won't start. And I was chastised!!

Makes no sense to me but I don't get paid millions to make these decisions.

Paul Birmingham
9 Posted 23/04/2021 at 19:23:27
I’d like to see why Tom is dropped for Gomes..

But this is Everton’s night and best chance to get the win to keep in touch with the top 6.

Win for Everton, virtue and football, and stick one one of the traitor clubs.

Gonna check the odds on B365, like Everton, I am over due a win...lol

Chris Williams
10 Posted 23/04/2021 at 19:23:35
No Keane at all. So a bit short of height at the back maybe.

Could be several formations and probably will be.

Take the chances and don’t fuck up at the back, and we can win this. We need to beat them for many reasons.

Christy Ring
11 Posted 23/04/2021 at 19:24:14
I would have picked Davies ahead of Sigurdsson for pace in midfield.
Jay Wood
[BRZ]

12 Posted 23/04/2021 at 19:24:22
Carlo confirming Keane is injured so misses out altogether. Didn't see him in this week's training videos, but Carlo says it's a little problem and he'll be back next week.

Holgate and Godfrey were excellent (albeit with Keane in attendance at Anfield). Arsenal's two main forwards are missing, so that'll help.

Not sure about starting all 3 of Gomes, James and Sigurdsson together. Sigurdsson and James certainly deserved to play. Last game showed what two technically gifted footballers can do together. Nice to see Calvert-Lewin back alongside Richarlison to give them problems at their end of the pitch.

Let's twat 'em!

Kevin Prytherch
13 Posted 23/04/2021 at 19:25:12
I see that Holgate has taken over from Davies as the latest whipping boy.

The lad was brilliant last season, has been played out of position the majority of this season, and most of his best performances have been at centre-back.

He's also outperformed Godfrey the last few times they've both been at centre-back.

Jay Harris
15 Posted 23/04/2021 at 19:31:22
I remember at one time most supporters advocating Holgate and Godfrey as our future centre-back pairing.

Let's see how they do before criticising... but I must say I'm disappointed Tom didn't get a start.

Darren Hind
16 Posted 23/04/2021 at 19:37:09
Spot on Kevin
Rob Hooton
17 Posted 23/04/2021 at 19:39:16
Perhaps Carlo sees this as our long term pairing at the back? Or maybe Keane is injured and he doesn't want to risk Mina.

They have great potential and have both played very well at times, I'll be cheering them on no matter what!

Darren Hind
18 Posted 23/04/2021 at 19:41:12
11/4 against not the best Arsenal team... worth a punt?
Rob Hooton
19 Posted 23/04/2021 at 19:45:20
That’s tempting Darren, I was a teenager last time we bleedin won there!
Bjoern Haall
20 Posted 23/04/2021 at 19:50:24
Looks like a Brazilian 4-2-2-2 to me.
Colin Glassar
21 Posted 23/04/2021 at 19:51:10
Holgate - Godfrey must be our 31st CB pairing this season. We’ve had no consistency in that key position.
Richard Nelson
22 Posted 23/04/2021 at 19:59:30
...Mason Holgate would have to take all the throw-ins, all the corner kicks, make 2 goal line clearances & score a second half hat-trick... to give himself any credibility...!
Bill Gienapp
23 Posted 23/04/2021 at 20:05:14
Kevin (13) - Holgate hasn't had the best season (albeit playing the majority of it out of position), but I'm amazed how quickly people seem to have soured on him. Last year everyone was saying he was our future Captain.

Oops - looks like the match is starting!

Simon Dalzell
24 Posted 23/04/2021 at 20:05:14
Mason Holgate would have to play reasonably well to gain any credibility. I've noticed a trend with these so called whipping boys. They seem to be the ones who are consistently poor. I wouldn't say Holgate was brilliant last season, and its now that counts.
Thomas Richards
25 Posted 23/04/2021 at 20:49:07
Concentration. Spatial awareness.
Tuned in to every run around him.
Composure.

Best 45 minutes of football from Holgate I can remember.

Alex Gray
26 Posted 23/04/2021 at 20:52:30
Holgate's done well. We are so so slow. Still hoping we nick this!
Jay Wood
[BRZ]

27 Posted 23/04/2021 at 20:54:03
A tad sluggish for most of the half, and yet when we speed it up with more incisiveness we are giving ourselves a chance, more than Arsenal have for all their 'in front of us' possession.

I must ask, where has Richarlison's energy and desire gone? Far, far too peripheral and failing to help out the team.

You have to say, the next foul by Partey SHOULD result in his 2nd yellow and an expulsion.

Dave Abrahams
28 Posted 23/04/2021 at 20:54:10
Well Holgate is having a good game along with Digne and Sigurdsson, not much to get excited about Gomes and James not doing much in midfield unless you count watching the game pass them by, another draw looks on the cards here, or maybe Carlo will make some very good subs, he’s long overdue making a decent one.
Chris Williams
29 Posted 23/04/2021 at 20:55:45
Need to get James a bit further forward second half. But nice controlled football. a bit of a chess game so far.
Thomas Richards
30 Posted 23/04/2021 at 20:59:15
Agree Chris.
Not over threatening but we have control of the game
Ciarán McGlone
31 Posted 23/04/2021 at 21:02:31
Nothing really on show from either side. Stinks of a dead rubber.
Chris Williams
32 Posted 23/04/2021 at 21:17:53
What a farce. A penalty that, to put it politely was a modern penalty. Then var dealing in geometry and virtual lines.

No penalty. Spot on.

Not so long ago it wouldn’t have been given in the first place and we could have saved about 5 minutes.

Coote and Moss officiating. Mick and Montmorency!

Ernie Baywood
33 Posted 23/04/2021 at 21:24:20
How the hell has Delph got the wrong socks on?
Simon Dalzell
34 Posted 23/04/2021 at 21:25:54
How the hell has Delph got on the pitch. Another Carlo gem.
Neil Lawson
35 Posted 23/04/2021 at 21:35:21
As soon as Delph came on I switched to BT sport and Exeter Chiefs. They are great. We are shit but have fluked a lead.
Thomas Richards
36 Posted 23/04/2021 at 21:53:38
Farcical goal seals undeserved historic win for Carlo Fantastico

😂😂😂

Gary Mortimer
37 Posted 23/04/2021 at 21:54:58
Undeserved? WTF? In what way?

That was hard fought and another "It's been donkeys years since we won there" off the list!

UTFT

Jay Wood
[BRZ]

38 Posted 23/04/2021 at 21:55:02
How's yer luck?

Thank you Leno. And VAR.

Neil Lawson
39 Posted 23/04/2021 at 21:55:42
Delighted with the points. Excellent defensively. Thank heavens Arsenal are so poor. Otherwise utterly turgid.
Full stop
Si Cooper
40 Posted 23/04/2021 at 21:56:46
If you can’t be good, be lucky!
Andy Walker
41 Posted 23/04/2021 at 21:57:23
Dont know about Carlo Fantastico, more Carlo Ancelucky. But keeps us in the mix!
Kieran Kinsella
42 Posted 23/04/2021 at 21:57:37
Carlo Magnifico. Build a gold statute now.
Martin Berry
43 Posted 23/04/2021 at 21:57:48
Great result but absolutely awful performance, our lack of ability to keep possession was a total embarrassment.

Yes, we defended well and Pickford made some good saves toward the end. Why Delph came on for Gomes, who knows?

And as for James, he was not at it tonight. It was like playing with 10 men and he should have been subbed at half time... maybe he was dreaming of his summer holidays.

Craig Walker
44 Posted 23/04/2021 at 21:58:58
Think I’ll play Royksopp’s Poor Leno.

Awful game. Another match which was like Soccer Aid. Delighted to win at the Emirates at last though.

Dave Abrahams
45 Posted 23/04/2021 at 22:00:07
Very good honest headline, Michael. No pride in that performance.

My headline, for what's worth, is: Sneak Thieves and Snails Grab An Embarrassing Win Going Backwards

Carlo, your tactics are getting worse and slower with no attempt to disguise them. Sadder still, a lot of fans will be happy with the performance.

Kieran Kinsella
46 Posted 23/04/2021 at 22:00:37
Not just any win. A “super league” team. Just imagine if we’d been worthy of an invite, we’d be crushing them based on this years results
Stephen Brown
47 Posted 23/04/2021 at 22:00:43
Another stupid stat against a team gone!

If nothing else we don’t have to listen to these embarrassing stats about not winning at grounds for x years!

Not the best going forward but looked solid! We deserved the bit of luck after palace and Spurs

Tony Hill
48 Posted 23/04/2021 at 22:01:16
Ridiculous, miserable headline, characteristically Kenrick. Who gives a fuck? A massive win.

Wins away at Tottenham, the Shite and now Arsenal. Three monkeys off our back.

Marvellous. We have a chance this season, despite everything. Try to raise a smile.

Chris Williams
49 Posted 23/04/2021 at 22:01:41
A hard worked for win. Better team first half. Then they had lots of possession. A dodgy penalty and a good save from Jordan. Fuck all else. We had a goal bound effort blocked just after half time. Best move of the match.

Delph did absolutely nothing to be criticised for. He organised, kept possession and steadied things down.

3 nice points. 25 years since our last win at their gaff.

Neil Copeland
50 Posted 23/04/2021 at 22:01:48
When was the last time we completed a double over The Arse?
Tommy Carter
51 Posted 23/04/2021 at 22:01:57
Martin Berry

We weren’t too bad first half. We played well.

Arsenal ok the front foot in the second half.

But. 3 points. Clean sheet. And the last team I saw us get a result away to Arsenal I remember distinctly checking 303 on Ceefax for updates.

Thank you Mr Ancelotti

Ian Edwards
52 Posted 23/04/2021 at 22:01:59
Delighted to get three points but the football was dull and boring. We ended the game with about 9 at the back. Playing like that will just drive fans away. There was far too much passing backwards. Gomes has a catalogue of awful performances and that was his worst.

90 mins of my life I won't get back.


Neil Lawson
53 Posted 23/04/2021 at 22:02:41
Richarlison MOM ? Which game was Alan Smith watching ? Tosser.
Give credit to Holgate following the sledging after Spurs. MOM was Seamus by a country mile although Godfrey ran him very close as always ( which makes the country mile a bit short !!)
Joe McMahon
54 Posted 23/04/2021 at 22:02:45
Take the 3 points, but bloody hell this team needs a rocket In midfield and shooting practice. Dont think the Carlo effect will land Harry Kane unfortunately. Pickford saved us today, the lay off may have done him good.
Ray Robinson
56 Posted 23/04/2021 at 22:03:18
Another ghost laid. But did we even try to win that? Martin Tyler trying his best to will an Arsenal win.
Roger Helm
57 Posted 23/04/2021 at 22:04:26
Great points but lucky Arsenal were worse than us, perhaps the worst Arsenal team I have seen.

Coleman Pickford and Digne (first half) played well otherwise deeply unimpressive performances. We still need a new midfield this summer.

Michael Kenrick
58 Posted 23/04/2021 at 22:05:46
Well, it has to be said that the unpredictability of the Premier League provides something of a redeeming quality to the utterly turgid fayre produced by almost our best line-up. How on earth did we get to 0.5 Expected Goals? Utter nonsense.

And Yes, James was close to being absolute rubbish tonight. I love the lad but every time I wanted a good forward or crossfield pass from him, it was sideways or backwards.

Peter Dodds
59 Posted 23/04/2021 at 22:05:52
What to say without sounding a miserable git? Three points and another away win against a bogey side, yaaaay! The Europe dream is still on.

Who cares that we did it with a supine, passionless, slow, ponderous, ambition-lacking, playing-it-so-slowly-across-the-back-they-all-had-time-to-get-into-shape way? How do this team get up for the game in the dressing room - get out their CDs of whale noises and waves lapping at the shingle?

Tony Hill
61 Posted 23/04/2021 at 22:07:19
Fucking hell, I pride myself on being a miserable bastard but I now recognise that I'm just a keen amateur.

You can taste the disappointment that we won.

Gerry Morrison
62 Posted 23/04/2021 at 22:07:56
Not sure how that could be classed as an underserved win. Who writes these headlines?
Thomas Richards
63 Posted 23/04/2021 at 22:08:22
Three points off 4th with 6 games to go.
Premier record for away wins.
Can anyone deny the progress?
Paul Birmingham
64 Posted 23/04/2021 at 22:09:22
A win away is good any day, and I’m up on my bet for Everton to win.

Solid defending in the 2nd half but Everton invited trouble in the last 30 minutes.

Delph for me is a waste of space and can’t even get the right socks on but may be that’s down to the kit man..

Good to get the win, make history and now to beat Villa.

Sadly the days of proper tackles in football are gone for good.

Brian Wilkinson
65 Posted 23/04/2021 at 22:10:19
Who cares if we were not at our best, will take the three points.

Dropped points against Spurs and Palace, when we played well, agree not one of our classics, but getting towards the buisness end, I would take 5 shitty wins, than playing another team off the park, and dropping points.

Win ugly if needed for now.

Oliver Molloy
66 Posted 23/04/2021 at 22:11:49
Terrible match, got lucky with var, three points ye-ha Ancelotti the greatest manager in the world, and well done Calamity!
Anthony Jones
67 Posted 23/04/2021 at 22:12:10
West Ham game now means something.

This is a fantastic result.

Colin Glassar
68 Posted 23/04/2021 at 22:12:54
A win’s a win ffs! Yes it was horrible, dull, zombie like performance but it is 3 more points. I’ll take that if not the game itself.

As it seems that Carlo has finally seen how crap Iwobi is will he now follow suit and drop Gomes as well? I like Andres, he doesn’t hide like the other fella but my god is he useless. Time to get rid of both of them.

Michael Kenrick
69 Posted 23/04/2021 at 22:13:03
You're not an amateur, Tony, but you are an idiot if you think that.

There is no disappointment that we won.

But there is a massive disappointment that we continue to play utter shite, that Covid and VAR have conspired to ruin the game we loved.

Sadly for the Premier League, we are not alone in that.

Gary Willock
70 Posted 23/04/2021 at 22:15:18
Man, if ever a headline summed up the negativity of this site, this is it.

Farcical? You’re having a laugh. In it to win it. Beat his man, fired it in hard and low.

Undeserved? Why? Because they had more possession? Remember Bobby ffs?

Wasnt a great performance, but either side could have won it. Let’s give credit that we did.

Colin Glassar
71 Posted 23/04/2021 at 22:15:53
I think the last time we beat Arsenal and the rs (away) in the same season, Stanley Baldwin was PM and young David was shagging Wallis!
Jay Wood
[BRZ]

72 Posted 23/04/2021 at 22:16:37
Seriously Neil? Richarlison named as MoTM? HOW???!!! He was awful.

Even his shot for our goal wasn't on target. Clear oggie.

Pickford for me today. Says a lot that Jordan was possibly our best player on the ball today!

A heat map of the play would show Everton passing and in possession almost exclusively between the edge of our penalty area and a line drawn across the pitch to the limit of the centre circle, in our half.

I'll happily take the points, and our first win away to Arsenal in a quarter of a century. 15 years they have been playing at the Emirates, and that's our first ever win there. But that was turgid.

Now officially our best ever away points return in the PL era and bizarrely we sit just 3 points off 4th. Everything very much still to play for.

Go figure.

Darren Hind
73 Posted 23/04/2021 at 22:16:55
Dave A @45

Get paid

Anthony Murphy
74 Posted 23/04/2021 at 22:17:50
Listen, we played poorly and got the result. Last week we played well and we’re undone by defensive mistakes. Shit happens. Let’s celebrate breaking an horrendous record and accept work still needs to be done.
Graham Hammond
75 Posted 23/04/2021 at 22:17:52
Brilliant result but we won that one despite Carlo. Delph brought on before Davies? I thought that Gomes was playing well and doing some good stuff in tight areas and didn't deserve to be hooked. Sigurdsson kept working hard after our goal which was necessary unlike DCL who frankly was a disgrace, the lad wasn't fucked, he just couldn't be arsed working right up to the final whistle to secure the win, not the attitude of someone who wants to win big, important games sadly.
Dale Self
76 Posted 23/04/2021 at 22:18:29
I guess it is hard to reconcile the points with the performances but I'm not too proud to take three off a team that once and probably still looks down at us.
Kieran Kinsella
77 Posted 23/04/2021 at 22:18:46
Those seeking graceful movement, agility and athleticism combined to produce aesthetic beauty may be better advised to watch the Bolshoi ballet doing Swan Lake. Personally, I’d happily watch occasional score updates on Ceefax as long as the outcome is a good. The outcome is the only important thing IMHO.
Thomas Richards
78 Posted 23/04/2021 at 22:18:50
One point behind the devils team with six games to go.
Who would not have took that at the start of the season.
Bill Gienapp
79 Posted 23/04/2021 at 22:19:04
Burglarized those points - more because we seemed content to sleepwalk through the second half, rather than the fortuitous nature of the goal. Still, a solid defensive effort, albeit against a somewhat underpowered Arsenal side. If it makes you feel better, tell yourself we deservedly beat Tottenham last week, and settled for a turgid draw today.

BTW, that VAR sequence belongs in the Louvre. An incredibly soft penalty gets quickly rubber stamped, then somehow ends up overturned on a fingernail offsides call. Classic stuff.

Tony Hill
80 Posted 23/04/2021 at 22:19:29
Michael, I'm interested in the club advancing. I have hated much of the football we've seen this season and have said so openly. But if we get into the Champions League, I won't care about the quality that got us there. And nor should you.

Everton have stood on their dignity for much too long and have lost repeatedly while doing so.

John Hammond
81 Posted 23/04/2021 at 22:20:25
A mostly horrible game although we were pretty solid for much of the first half and you've got to hand it to the players, they worked their socks off. We've played far better and not got the 3 points.

Thier 'penalty' - what a joke. Utterly pathetic. Ceballos looking for it after what happened in the first half.

Delph - jesus christ he's shit.

Andrew Keatley
82 Posted 23/04/2021 at 22:21:45
Three points away against Arsenal, even with Richarlison and James being largely ineffective and the ever-willing DCL receiving zero service. Not pretty, not one to get the juices flowing, but Holgate and Godfrey were excellent, and Pickford did not put a hand or foot wrong. Those for me are the big pluses.
Neil Lawson
83 Posted 23/04/2021 at 22:22:20
Jay. You need to reread my post !!
Derek Moore
84 Posted 23/04/2021 at 22:23:11
Tidy first half that I thought we shaded without really threatening greatly.
The second half was a different story, they fashioned the better chances and I was grateful for the absence of some of their front line quality. Midfield just couldn't seem to scrap it out.
The "penalty" decision looked harsh; the VAR offside ruling afterwards seemed harsher yet. Another poor advertisement for the modern game.
And then a bizarre, unrepeatable goal - of the type we've seen cost us games far more often than the reverse.
It's like the football gods were on our side tonight, because by any and all measures it was hard to argue we deserved all three points from that performance.
An odd way to break a hoodoo, very different from Anfield earlier this season or Oviedo (baby!) at OT. I won't be hanging a lot of shit on my Gooner friends on that effort anyway, but I'll happily take the almost certain league finish ahead of them.
Europe STILL beckons.

Michael Lynch
85 Posted 23/04/2021 at 22:27:13
Farcical indeed - farcical pen overturned by a farcical VAR system followed by a farcical winning goal. Farcical Delph comes on in the wrong socks, farcically picks up a yellow with his first touch.

Fantastic win though. UTFT!!

Lev Vellene
86 Posted 23/04/2021 at 22:27:15
Played poorly vs Chelsea away. And won? Boo-hoo, I'm now sobbing!!! Or not... ;D

Wow, Chelski away? We used to count draws as near victories these last decades...

Colin Glassar
87 Posted 23/04/2021 at 22:27:15
Pickford - 7
Coleman - 8
Godfrey - 6
Holgate - 7
Digne - 6
Siggi - 6
Allan - 6
Gomes - 3
James - 4
DCL - 4
Rich - 5

Delph - 6
Tom - 4
Mina - 4
Iwobi - -3

Most of them were awful tonight.

Kieran Kinsella
88 Posted 23/04/2021 at 22:27:57
In all seriousness, not long ago if we’d set up two buses and endured a ton of pressure and somehow nicked a win people would be ecstatic as they were with the dogs of war and all that. Now we can nonchalantly go through the motions, comfortably weather Arsenals pressure without ever looking lik conceding and with minimal effort walk off with three points. Personally I see that as a positive. It’s nice watching a game without the blood pressure going through the roof.
Thomas Richards
89 Posted 23/04/2021 at 22:28:17
Glassar 1
Colin Glassar
90 Posted 23/04/2021 at 22:28:42
Cheers Thomas. I do try
Craig Walker
91 Posted 23/04/2021 at 22:28:49
Neil was questioning Richarlison being MotM.
Thomas Richards
92 Posted 23/04/2021 at 22:29:00
👍
Thomas Richards
93 Posted 23/04/2021 at 22:29:56
Kieran,

Bang on

Seb Niemand
94 Posted 23/04/2021 at 22:31:36
On a tangent, d'yer think that Arteta will still have a job by tomorrow night? If not (and it's very probable) has any other club had the opposition manager sacked after playing them two games in a row?
Jay Wood
[BRZ]

95 Posted 23/04/2021 at 22:32:14
Neil, I read and perfectly understood your post. I know YOU didn't name Richy as MoTM, that as you wrote Alan Smith the presumably in-match pundit on the commentary you watched did.

My statement stands whoever names Richy as MoTM. He was out and out cack.

John Raftery
96 Posted 23/04/2021 at 22:33:54
I like any wins including undeserved wins. I prefer to call it lucky rather than undeserved. Like some games we have lost this season this one was heading towards a goalless stalemate until a mistake intervened.

The win should seal eighth place. Loose talk of chasing fourth is ridiculous. We are only three points below fourth but our performances suggest we are miles away from that level. If we finish eighth with something around sixty points it will have been a decent season with a very limited group of players.

Defensively Holgate and Godfrey did well albeit against a very weak Arsenal attack. The midfield display was passable in the first half but almost nonexistent in the second. The lack of a driving force, for example Doucouré, in the centre of the park is a real problem for us as soon as the opposition step up a gear which Arsenal did for a period in the second half. We seemed to have no way of getting out of our own half other than a long punt up to the front two.

Colin Glassar
97 Posted 23/04/2021 at 22:34:14
Wouldn’t it be a sickener if we missed out on 4th place due to goal difference? Plus 4 goals is pathetic and needs to be remedied next season.
Martin Nicholls
98 Posted 23/04/2021 at 22:34:32
"Undeserved win"? So what did we deserve? Did Arse deserve to win or even take a point?
That was a hard fought and ultimately deserved win. Well done Blues!
PS - Gomes had very good first half, despite what some are saying.
Jerome Shields
99 Posted 23/04/2021 at 22:34:57
Vindification of Ancelotti's tactics of aiming for a 0-0 draw with the possiblity of nicking a goal and all three points. Being positive Everton defended well first half and had two shots on target. Second half sat back and then suckered Arsenal on the counterattack.

Liverpool and Arsenal scalped on their home grounds, Everton should be Champions.

Jay #72

Agree. Pickford motm all day long.

Daniel Thomas
100 Posted 23/04/2021 at 22:36:13
Christ. Everyone is entitled to their opinions but that headline sums up this forum. I wouldn’t mind but the headlines aren’t reflective when we have deserved to win but didn’t.

You know what, give me 6 more of those exact performances if it means we win all the games and get in the champions league.

Do you think we’ll remember any of these performances when we get to have some fantastic away days on the continent next year.

Brian Wilkinson
101 Posted 23/04/2021 at 22:37:27
12 point deduction coming up, the premier league have seen Everton challenging one of their super 6 so thought it was right Delph wearing the wrong coloured socks was cheating and need to be punished.
Kate McCabe
102 Posted 23/04/2021 at 22:38:10
I will take a win at Arsenal any day, what a great way to start the weekend.
Neil Lawson
103 Posted 23/04/2021 at 22:39:23
Good save Jay. Arteta may give you a call.
Rob Dolby
104 Posted 23/04/2021 at 22:40:10
Michael - It may have been an undeserved win but the draw against Palace and Spurs were also undeserved results against us!

Neither team deserved the win, their keeper produced a howler, England's number 1 pulled off a fantastic save at the death.

I want to see attacking football, both teams looked like they where going through the motions of an end of season game. No passion, no desire to win a game from both teams.

Thought Davies was very unlucky getting dropped and watching Delph get on before him.

Their Pen was terrible, how John moss and var thought it was a pen is evidence that the current crop of refs are dreadful.

Struggled to give a motm, probably give it to Holdgate, he has been a bit iffy recently but looked organised and defended well.

Tom Bowers
105 Posted 23/04/2021 at 22:41:24
Any win is good and Everton scraped another one albeit on the road again. Have they ever won so many at opponents grounds ? Home teams just don't have the edge anymore without their fans.

Another poor display to be honest but we have had quite a few like this when we didn't win so we must take this for what it is worth.

Richie is an enigma. Looks like a really dangerous player at times but inexplicably makes many poor decisions.

Tony Hill
106 Posted 23/04/2021 at 22:44:47
If we don't believe we can get 4th then we assuredly won't. West Ham fans will think they can do it, and the Shite will expect it delivering on a platter.

Meantime, we crucify ourselves. No wonder we bottle it.

Barry Hesketh
107 Posted 23/04/2021 at 22:44:56
We won a football match for a change! Given that it's been too long since we last won all 3 points.

It's been a very crazy season for Everton a whirlwind start with some good football, then a period of abject results and performances, but the constant clicking up of points on our travels helped to keep us within touching distance.

Then a few shambolic home performances and results where we have dropped a ridiculous amount of points. Somehow with six games to go, Everton still has an outside chance of Europe.

What I don't get and never will understand is how the players can't seem to pass and move with real purpose, it's as if they think that somebody else will take responsibility and be the creator, but the results on the road seem to indicate that they're doing something right and the home results indicate the opposite. I can't stand watching Everton this season and I'm almost grateful that I haven't had to be in the stadium to witness it in the flesh.

I do hope we change our style for next season because as good as it is to get 3 points in any game, home or away, there has to be something to get excited about apart from the final scoreline.

The positives have been our results on the road at WHL, Anfield, and the Emirates, not just for yielding nine points but to have broken the hoodoo of all three venues which is a rather large monkey off our backs.

Another 540 minutes of football to endure and hopefully a good few points to add to our total or not as the case may be.

Thomas Richards
108 Posted 23/04/2021 at 22:45:24
Blues are disappointed how we won at Arsenal.

Sign of progress?

Barry Rathbone
109 Posted 23/04/2021 at 22:46:39
Perez said the game needs rescuing because young people are losing interest and our games explain why.

ESL mk2 started tonight.

Colin Glassar
110 Posted 23/04/2021 at 22:47:27
Pep told Mikel he wasn’t ready to be a manager and he was right. Now the deluded gooners want Carlo. Laughable that lot
John Reynolds
111 Posted 23/04/2021 at 22:47:45
Do I not like that headline!?
Dave Lynch
112 Posted 23/04/2021 at 22:48:40
Bit of a reality check here.

If at the start of the season you where told we would be challenging for Europe, beat Liverpool, spurs and the Arse away, who would have taken it.

Hands in the bucket.

Bobby Mallon
113 Posted 23/04/2021 at 22:50:02
The title needs changing. A win is a win and undeserved is really poor. We won 1.0 and Arsenal where no great shakes. Stop with the downers.
Anthony Murphy
114 Posted 23/04/2021 at 22:52:03
Fourth isn’t out the question but I agree we are miles away from the level expected. Difference is mentality now - the shite fully expect a top four finish and no one will bat an eyelid should they finish there - but they’ve been piss poor most of this season, so if we are to stand a chance we need to believe it’s up for grabs and we belong there as much as anyone. This has been our undoing over the years.
Andy Riley
115 Posted 23/04/2021 at 22:53:11
I can’t believe the negativity on here. At this point in the season results are all that really matters. Some of us remember 1986 when we should have done the double playing great football with Gary Lineker but we didn’t. How I’d have loved a spawny win at Oxford that season or Nev not getting injured!
Dale Self
116 Posted 23/04/2021 at 22:56:41
A pro-Perez post Barry? Are you just stirring it up because you didn't like talk of a gold statue?
Tony Abrahams
117 Posted 23/04/2021 at 22:57:11
How Jonathon Moss, is allowed anywhere near top level football, is beyond me. He was struggling to run just before he booked Allen, and I honestly think he brought out that yellow card, just to give himself a little rest.

Sigurdson, Allen, Gomes, Rodriguez, and then Fabian Delph, making me ask a serious question, which is could any of our midfielders today, run the 100 metres, in under 15 seconds? And if they could, could they do it again after a 30 seconds rest?

I know you are rarely asked to sprint more than 50 yards on a football pitch, which is just as well given the lack of athleticism in our midfield, and possibly a massive reason why we really regressed after half-time, although I thought Sigurdson put in a lot of hard graft tonight.

Michael Kenrick
118 Posted 23/04/2021 at 22:58:11
I think I'll go along with what Carlo Fantastico said: should have been a draw. So the win was, yes, 'undeserved'.

And the goal was farcical, along with many other things about the game (see post #85). But the win was historic. Me thinks you protest too much.

Sorry but I've always called the games exactly as I see them. I know we're supposed to bend over backwards not to cause anyone offence but it's really the truth that's upsetting you.


Colin Glassar
119 Posted 23/04/2021 at 23:00:33
I think Michael has been misunderstood. The goal WAS farcical. The result WAS probably unfair, even Carlo said it should’ve been a draw, but I’ll take it any day.

It’s much better than dropping four points against Palace and Spurs against who we played quite well.

Tony Hill
120 Posted 23/04/2021 at 23:02:08
Can I suggest that we all relax, sip the wine and look at the table. We won and the weekend lies ahead.

Fucking joy.

Dale Self
121 Posted 23/04/2021 at 23:02:09
It was fine, Michael. We're just a little bruised up from the roller coaster ride and no one is really sure how to view the core character of this squad.
Barry Rathbone
122 Posted 23/04/2021 at 23:03:38
Dale @116,

"A pro-Perez post Barry?"

It's conclusions like this that make me realise what a monumental failure education has become.

Jason Wilkinson
123 Posted 23/04/2021 at 23:04:57
3 points closer to securing UEFA competition next season. We didn't look like scoring in the second half but a decent if unspectacular display.

We will need new blood and a few going the other way to improve. Surely any qualification for Europe will help us attract the type of player we need.

We still have some very young players in our squad who can improve. Maybe not in terms of individual skill but become more consistent. I'm still not a fan of holding on to a 1-goal lead. We could and should have pushed for a second goal.

James Flynn
124 Posted 23/04/2021 at 23:05:23
"Farcical goal seals undeserved historic win for Carlo Fantastico"

Christ, Kenrick, even for you this is an embarrassing headline.

We, like Arsenal, are two top-half clubs not near enough to challenge for the title.

The goal resulted from an absolute of sporting competition, "pressure breaks pipes".

That's it. We win.

Dale Self
125 Posted 23/04/2021 at 23:05:47
You did seem to be giving him some credit for some kind of wisdom and ability to read the game there.
Stuart Sharp
126 Posted 23/04/2021 at 23:06:16
We got a bit of luck for a change. Guess we take the 3 points and move on. It was a pretty awful watch...

Even James was poor, giving the ball away a few times. Mind you, sometimes he was looking to play a forward pass before realising there wasn't one on, and then losing it to the press while he tried to work out plan B.

We definitely miss Doucoure. Even more than I thought we would. Midfield remains pedestrian without him.

Ernie Baywood
127 Posted 23/04/2021 at 23:07:37
Just when you think you can start to relax, Everton go and give you a bit of hope.

How the hell are we still in the mix with the way we've been performing?

I've seen Everton teams be brilliant at Arsenal and lose or draw. I'm happy. But confused. I can't quite get on board with us being lucky. I'm not conditioned for this.

Although in truth I thought it was a fairly even game. Possession doesn't mean anything.

David Hallwood
128 Posted 23/04/2021 at 23:09:25
Tony (#117),

At least Jon Moss is consistent!

The worst ref I've ever seen... and the bar isn't that high.

Rob Dolby
129 Posted 23/04/2021 at 23:09:51
Over the last 20 years, we have all seen us play better away to Arsenal, Liverpool and Spurs so edging close games – regardless if "undeserved" – are all welcome.

How many times have we seen the Super 6 win games undeservedly? Quite a lot.
Dodgy pens, late goals, breaks aways against play, deflections... it was our turn tonight and long may it continue.

Utft.

Kieran Kinsella
130 Posted 23/04/2021 at 23:10:33
I’m about to watch again and happily clap throughout.
Tony Abrahams
131 Posted 23/04/2021 at 23:10:51
The truth shouldn’t upset anyone Michael K, and I also thought it was an undeserved win, but I also have to agree with Tony H, because whilst Everton are in with a chance, we should get behind them, especially because I/we can see how limited we are in certain positions.

Away from home against the top seven, we have won 3, drew 1, lost 1, and still have two to play, and even if the football hasn’t been good, it doesn’t mean Everton are not our team, so let’s get behind them now, and see where it takes us!!

Colin Glassar
133 Posted 23/04/2021 at 23:12:56
David, Moss and Dowd must be the slowest, fattest, most useless refs I've ever seen. Fat refs who are out of shape shouldn't be in the Premier League.
Robert Tressell
134 Posted 23/04/2021 at 23:14:08
I'm not sure it was an undeserved win. We were poor but carved out chances and looked better than Arsenal.
Tony Abrahams
135 Posted 23/04/2021 at 23:15:35
The bar isn't high, David, but he's to fat to crawl under it, and not fit enough to jump over it, but the standard of refereeing is absolutely appalling, I agree mate.
John Raftery
136 Posted 23/04/2021 at 23:16:08
Tony (117),

You raise a great point in your second paragraph. Unless appearances are very deceptive, my guess is they couldn't.

Kieran Kinsella
137 Posted 23/04/2021 at 23:16:57
Tony

On the luck front, I feel like you get what you deserve. Fact is that Leno deserved to lose for his mistake. Him being more deserving of a loss, we deserved to win. In the same way, I feel we didn’t deserve to beat Spurs because Holgate and Keane weren’t deserving of a win. Other than a third party interference eg. Collina, ultimately you get what you deserve IM (I wouldn’t say “humble” necessarily) O

Kieran Kinsella
138 Posted 23/04/2021 at 23:21:58
Moss looks like one of those parent refs on Jossy’s giants. Funnily enough one of my mates here who’s fit but portly was fired from umpiring baseball at college level because he looked too fat. The umpires are largely stationary and it’s non professional but he was told the aesthetics are bad having a fat bloke in sport as he appears to be unfit. Seemed kinda harsh looking at some of the fat pro baseball players but in the same vein Moss is an embarrassment
Stan Schofield
139 Posted 23/04/2021 at 23:22:01
The win was not undeserved. The only time a win is undeserved is when it’s achieved through cheating. We’ve had plenty of undeserved losses.

We didn’t play well, but we won. When I was a kid in the 60s and my dad took me to the game, we had quite a few games where we didn’t play well but won. I recall my dad saying to me that when a team can play badly and still win, that’s a sign of a good team. I’m not saying this team is as good as the 60s teams, but I am saying that there are positive signs of some progress.

No, I’m not satisfied with a dull performance, but I am happy with the three points and looking more difficult to beat than in recent seasons. And I’m happy that a lot of the goals we’ve scored this season have come from very good crisp attacking play and good finishing. That’s despite being unhappy with the performances that have been dull and where we’ve failed to find the net. So it’s a mix of good and disappointing, with some progress overall.

Danny Broderick
140 Posted 23/04/2021 at 23:25:01
The fact we needed Delph to come on and add some life in midfield sums this one up. Midfield totally non-existent including Richarlison. Rodriguez and Calvert-Lewin had very little service but were both poor also.

Our best performers were in goal and in defence. Happy with this result, but Arsenal were there for the taking and we only just stumbled across the line, which is worrying. Our midfield is too slow and ponderous with Sigurdsson and Gomes is the same team. Rodriguez had an off night also. We need another player alongside Doucouré to provide legs next season, we must have the slowest midfield in the Premier League...

Tony Abrahams
141 Posted 23/04/2021 at 23:26:31
We deserved to win just because their keeper made a ridiculous mistake, Kieran? I understand what you're trying to say, mate, but I'm not sure I agree with you though.

A team can play brilliantly and lose because one of their players makes a bad mistake, so the secret is to get rid of the players that make bad mistakes, then you might stop being unlucky!

Anthony Burke
142 Posted 23/04/2021 at 23:29:24
Wow feels like we are disappointed that we won with these headlines are we Everton fans? Been plenty of times that we have lost when we've been the better team but these headlines should be ashamed... embarrassing.
Kieran Kinsella
143 Posted 23/04/2021 at 23:30:37
Tony,

I definitely concur with your last sentence.

Bill Gall
144 Posted 23/04/2021 at 23:31:02
There is no such thing as it should have been, it is what it was, and that was 2 poor teams that 1 won because of poor goalkeeping. Everton have played better and lost so it is great getting the 3pts and not having my weekend ruined. Arsenal never played an open game and neither did Everton and this made a stalemate of a game.

The only time they really troubled Pickford was after the goal when they tried to get back into it by pushing more men forward including the keeper. The game overall was a poor one with one team wanting to score on the break and another making sure they had enough men behind the ball to stop it.

Neither team was a Match of the Day qualifier by far, but we have broken two hoodoos this season, one at Anfield and the other today at the Emirates. And it is Everton's present manager who has done it.

Let's see if Newcastle can put a bigger smile on our faces.


Kevin Dyer
145 Posted 23/04/2021 at 23:40:04
#75 Graham - bang on. Gomes played well, pressed effectively, was strong on the ball and even made a few incisive passed. People expected him to be poor so just didn't watch what he was doing. Sigurdsson our best outfield player today. Covered every blade of grass, harassed and blocked passing lanes expertly, showed some nice touches also. Absolutely tireless.

Delph I do not understand. Got booked immediately and comically miss-hit a pass at one point which somehow went up and behind him. In fairness he settled down a bit after that but surely he's getting offloaded in the summer so why him before Davies? DCL didn't look for to me, lethargic and looked knackered with 15m to go. I was stunned he wasn't subbed off for King.

Digne had a great first half and Coleman was solid but coughed up possession a couple times in the second and his awful touch was bailed out by Pickford late on. James was OK and certainly put a shift in but got bullied off the ball a few times and his passing lacked it's usual zip. Allan OK. Godfrey and especially Holgate player well. Pickford impressive. Richy offered a threat and I thought worked hard.

Thought we gained control gradually in the opening half but once again failed to come out for the second when the game was there to be won. We got lucky as we offered zero threat in the 2nd though the Arse were little better.

So undeserved, maybe so but as Ancelotti said we deserved more from Palace and Spurs do maybe we're owed this one. I'll take it.

Mark Boullé
146 Posted 23/04/2021 at 23:41:35
Hard to know what to make of that game. We had to win and we did, and some of the first half football was really good - we definitely should have scored at least once.

Second half was absolutely dismal, we reverted to the mind-numbingly slow, sideways and backwards crap, only broken up by ineffective long balls.

I know Richarlison and Calvert-Lewin were great together earlier this season but they desperately need some competition and we need other striking options. They are toothless, Calvert-Lewin looks a million miles from scoring a goal ever again and Richalison is so selfish every time he's in possession in a threatening position. He picks the wrong option time and time again, even the option he picked for the goal was wrong but we got lucky!

We need a centre-half with more confidence to pass the ball into midfield and we need so much more pace and power in midfield.

Kevin Prytherch
147 Posted 23/04/2021 at 23:44:43
Holgate - that arrogant gum chewing calamity kid - played quite well didn’t he.

Flog him in the summer

Mike Doyle
148 Posted 23/04/2021 at 00:04:06
Kieren #138,

Your mate's mistake was in not wearing lucky white socks (like Delphinho).

Tony Hill
149 Posted 24/04/2021 at 00:13:36
Beauty, you know, can have ugly roots.

That pass from Allan to Richarlison was lovely enough.

We've been a mess this season but we've been streaked with beauty.

If we get top 4 (or 6) then the beauty will grow.

Derek Thomas
150 Posted 24/04/2021 at 00:13:50
Worst.

Game.

EVER...and thats before discussing Delph.

Tony Hill
151 Posted 24/04/2021 at 00:26:29
Plus, my gloom-ridden friends, there is always Ben Godfrey. Tackles can be beautiful too. The one tonight was.

Fella's going to be one of the greats and he's starting that in our shirt. Farcical.

Ron Sear
152 Posted 24/04/2021 at 00:36:58
I now know what hell will be like after I die – it will be watching an Everton game in the last 15 minutes when they are 1-0 up. FOR EVER!
Kieran Kinsella
153 Posted 24/04/2021 at 00:51:18
Ron 152

I get your point and have felt that way many times in Fergie time and against the RS, but honestly I didn’t see Arsenal scoring tonight. Was that because we are so resolute or because they are so inept? Could be either or both but I just felt pretty comfortable the last 15 minutes to be honest which is fairly unusual for me lol

Tony Hill
154 Posted 24/04/2021 at 00:52:47
I've just looked again at that tackle on the Arsenal delicate thing; I have, further, reviewed the tackle on the RS Swiss goblin.

I have, therefore, seen our Captain for the next 10-11 years, and I have seen Glory.

Barry Williams
155 Posted 24/04/2021 at 00:56:46
I did not feel it was an undeserved win at all, but hey, without the differences of opinions - well, we don't really have much of a site!

Obviously the game can be viewed many ways; were Everton under the cosh in the second half, or did we defend well away from home? Were Everton lucky, or did we make some of our own luck?

For me, we played well in the first half and defended well in the second half, kept the shape well and counter-attacked when necessary. Saying that, we were pushed back too much and lost possession far too often for me.

The positives though are that even though James didn't play well tonight, we still won. Holgate and Godfrey look a good fast athletic partnership. Sigurdsson has re-found his mojo, covers an awful lot of ground, and is always a threat with his free-kicks, passes and closing down. Yes, I know what I have just said – he does seem to be very decent at closing down recently.

Gomes divides opinion, and I can see why. However, I have been a massive critic of his privately (not on here) but in the last half a dozen games or so, his ability to switch play, spot a pass that doesn't look on, or just be in the right place to stop an attack have made me reassess his role and abilities. It is nice to feel wrong sometimes.

This brings me onto Richarlison – and I am happy to be shot down here.

Since he came to Everton, I have not been to sure about him, his role, or even his position in the team. His Premier League goal return is about 1 in 3 for Everton, his assists are less than 4 a season at the moment, and at times I am not sure what he is meant to be? He is not really a centre forward. He is not a winger; nor a wide midfielder.

As said, I am happy to be shot down here, but is he a tad overrated by both the fans and media alike!? I am happy to take onboard anything that proves otherwise and reassess my opinion/feelings on this!

Pickford: Looks slimmer, more focused and reliable!

Shame Davies was dropped as he has looked pretty good lately. Even when he is not having a great game, his attitude is first class. Plus, as is the way with modern football, he's the only local in the squad!!!!

Anyways – a win away – at Arsenal. Well, I will take that, however it happens.

A clean sheet means you are always in with a chance of winning!


David Pearl
156 Posted 24/04/2021 at 01:00:17
I missed most of the first half but what l saw was our Player of the Season continuing his good work. Yes, that was Sigurdsson.

Pickford has had a good season too.

James... was shite. Kept coming too deep only to give the ball away. We miss Mina for dead balls when he doesn't start. I was pleased for Holgate and Godfrey getting another start together That's about it.

We deserve a bit of luck. And Delph. Well, he was a bit rusty. So what. If he stays fit, he could add something to the squad.

What happens in the summer... well that depends on who we have tackers for. 3 unexpected points puts us in with a shout. Pity we have some home games left.

Si Cooper
157 Posted 24/04/2021 at 02:01:51
Some rustiness from Delph would indeed be expected, David, but what I saw was a rusty version of the same rubbish he has been producing since he joined us.

Too many pointless touches slowing everything down, under-hit passes cutting down the recipient's options, over-estimating his ability to manoeuvre away from opponents and zero hustle to get back on terms when the ball was played in behind him. I really don't expect to see much better from him in the future.

David Pearl
158 Posted 24/04/2021 at 02:24:39
The thing is, Si, Carlo seems to trust his older players. Look how Gbamin came straight back in. He was eager to give him a go. He seems to always be looking towards next season, and whatever we get this is a bonus.

A large part of today's performance was down to James trying to get involved and our full-backs sitting deep. Delph will get another run out next game also. Unless he picks up another training ground injury!

Pleased for the 3 points... but, as ever, a look back to our home form isn't nice viewing. We can still dare to dream. Might be the confidence we need to finish strong. It's the hope that kills us... as ever.

Alan J Thompson
159 Posted 24/04/2021 at 02:27:59
Having just finished watching the game for the first time it was another uninspiring game with the tag line - "but we got the three points".

Arsenal looked like a side that didn't have a striker while our midfield needs somebody to bind them into a unit which needs to get forward to help Calvert-Lewin and Richarlison. Indeed, it was almost half an hour before you realized that Richarlison was on the pitch. Then, cometh the hour, cometh the substitution and while he didn't do badly, it was a surprise that Delph was the man.

So uninspiring was the performance that it is difficult to find our MotM and on the basis of a couple of good saves I'd have to give it to Pickford with the only other player for consideration being Godfrey.

If anything it only makes previous dropped points even more disappointing while you have to ask how they think Arsenal, who may be on the brink of success in European competition, are going to make a breakaway league any more exciting.

Mike Gaynes
160 Posted 24/04/2021 at 02:44:57
Wow, is no-one here gonna give Richarlison proper credit for that goal? He turned the defender superbly, beat him off the dribble, then eye-faked to Dom to induce Leno to open his legs -- and banked the shot in off the inside of his leg. It was brilliant! Inventive! Pele-esque!

And that's today's entry from the Happy Clappers USA Club.

(Seriously, somebody's gotta tell Richarlison to skip the celebratory chicken dance off a goal like that one. That was plumb embarrassing. Just smile sheepishly and run back to midfield, dude.)

Don Alexander
161 Posted 24/04/2021 at 03:02:52
Having spunked half a billion into the club as he reportedly has, in a hapless way, without being able to yet produce a one-hour DVD of entertaining, successful football by us since he got here five years ago, I just wonder whether Moshiri will this summer choose to grant meaningfully significant funds to Brands and/or Ancelotti to actually sign midfield players for next season (and then some) who can motor with real winning purpose from front to back on a habitual basis?

Until that happens, we're consigned to more snail-paced catenaccio mundanity, and it's not the fault of Marcel or Carlo.

Kieran Kinsella
162 Posted 24/04/2021 at 03:03:29
Mike Gaynes,

ToffeeWeb's English cynicism is rubbing off on you mate. As Mason Holgate said it was a “fantastic” goal. After last week's assist of Holgate's ass, any kind goal of goal for us is a thing of beauty.

Derek Knox
163 Posted 24/04/2021 at 03:52:00
Mike G @ 160, so you don't like Richie's ' not so Funky Chicken Dance celebration ' e? Well, I have to agree it does look more farcical than Terpsichorean, and would certainly not feature on Strictly Come Dancing, but you know what, I'll stick with it for the time being, because it means he has scored a goal!

And goals seem hard to come by in this run in, DCL's early form where he couldn't stop scoring seems to have evaporated as has the team's creativity in the final third. A bit harsh maybe, but as many have said we have played a lot better than last night, and lost!

I slated Gomes off before the game, as I just don't rate the guy, but only partial egg on my face, he did have a short spell where he was making me eat my words, then lapsed back into 'detritus mode' hence the substitution. How can a professional player who is on the sub's bench knowing he could get the call to enter the fray, be mis-appropriately dressed?

Couldn't believe it (there's the Victor Meldrew in me emerging again) that Delph came on with White Socks when everyone else was wearing Blue!

Tony Abrahams, excellent point about the suitability of Jon Moss to the Premier League Refereeing, what a disgrace, Allan hardly touched the Arsenal fraud who simulated Audie Murphy going down in a movie after being shot at least 14 times. Yet he produced a Yellow for that innocuous coming together, probably to get his own breath back as you say. Another stealing Oxygen on the Planet!

Gavin Johnson
164 Posted 24/04/2021 at 04:44:20
You've got to be happy with the result and the defensive play, and as Ancelotti said, this makes up for the points lost to Palace and Spurs.

I was a bit concerned a few minutes into Delph's substitution. From having the wrong socks on, to getting a yellow card to slicing the ball, to just looking gash really. He needs to be pensioned off like Wilshire at West Ham. No other club will buy him from us. Carlo got that substitution wrong for me. Davies should have been brought on ahead of him.

Steve Brown
165 Posted 24/04/2021 at 05:14:51
We played well last week and lost two points due to stupidity. We played badly this week and gained two points due to stupidity.

Four points from games against Arsenal and Spurs is decent. Delph's brief cameo a summary of his Everton career as a whole.

Alan J Thompson
166 Posted 24/04/2021 at 05:19:47
Derek (#163); Fair doo's, it was a pair he borrowed from Sidibe but forgot to return.
Mal van Schaick
167 Posted 24/04/2021 at 06:05:54
Fortunate win or not, we dug in, and fought hard and put the ghost to bed, which has haunted for years.

I was worried Holgate started after the Spurs blunders, and Delph coming on, but credit to Ancelotti, he has them organised.

Villa next up, let's finish the season strongly with Doucouré back soon.

Terry Farrell
168 Posted 23/04/2021 at 06:13:51
I don't care about how we did it, we won a must-win game and also made a Super League team look even more foolish. Their attempt to claim a penalty was shameful. Forget the offside, it was Salah-esque.
Bob Parrington
169 Posted 24/04/2021 at 06:16:31
Lazy, lackadaisical and lucky. In particular, the midfield lucked like they'd been slipped a Micky-Finn tranquilliser, except for Sigurdsson.

But, the karma from the action by the board and supporters ref super league shone through with the goal.

Bobby Mallon
171 Posted 24/04/2021 at 06:49:52
I have watched the game again and we still won 0-1 😂.

I thought we played well. Calvert-Lewin has been pilloried tonight but was always in the box waiting to pounce. Richarlison's shot in the first half that Leno saved, Dom was there, it just went over his head by inches.

Second half, he would have scored if Richarlison's pass had been true but Leno this time didn't do too well. Calvert-Lewin was always there for the pounce. Sigurdsson was my MotM, he covered a lot of ground.

Danny O’Neill
172 Posted 24/04/2021 at 06:51:46
Not sure why the author is getting stick for the headline. Pretty accurate in my opinion. It was a bizarre goal, even though you take them all. And a draw would have been fair. Bar 2 individual mistakes of our own, the draw against Tottenham was undeserved as we deserved to win. Swings both ways.

It's all been said; a turgid affair for the spectator. A game of chess at times with both teams, Everton especially, more interested in their shape than trying to exploit space.

Richarlison got lucky with the goal and it was an absolute howler from the keeper. He actually done really well to use pace and purpose to skip past the full back and put himself in a great position. Then he made a poor decision or poor pass (undecided) but got out of jail and we got lucky. Had the keeper not gifted us one, he was about to get both barrels from Calvert-Lewin and James, who was lurking in acres of space on the penalty spot.

Didn't like the way James was so deep at times. Tactic or frustration to come and get the ball? I am undecided. Gomes I thought played well in the context of the standard of the game. On more than a few occasions I saw both those players look up and visibly get frustrated with no options in front. We rightfully bemoan sideways and backwards football but let's not forget that players need movement in front of them to play forward otherwise its an aimless punt giving possession back to the opposition too easily.

Allan stood out for me amongst an average bunch. He done what he does. Simple, break up play and one player who did always look to go forward. Not just short either. A great ball through to Richarlison in the first half.

Richarlison man of the match? I think the pundits were just struggling and put on the spot, he had the assist.

Delph? Danny shakes head and will leave it there.

Sam Bowen
173 Posted 24/04/2021 at 07:03:22
A very welcome three points after a truly appalling game. Both sides contributed next to nothing in terms of entertainment and I've got to say that VAR used in its current form is the worst thing to have ever happened to the game.

Yes, we benefited from the ridiculous offside but how on earth these refs are employed is beyond me. They really have to start standing up to the players and stop giving these soft penalties, it's the only way it'll ever stop the players looking for penalties all the time.

I'm as fickle a fan as they come but I'm seriously close to jacking it in, I just hate the way the game has gone. Squealing players, crap refs, no tackling allowed and no fans really is a massive turn-off for me.

Still, at least the season is still alive and there is some hope of European football next season. I pray that we make it and that the summer sees some much-needed skill and pace and ambition thrust into the side. COYB

Martin Mason
174 Posted 24/04/2021 at 07:08:22
What a disgusting win, we should offer the 3 points back to Arsenal and apologise. Disgusting that we go to a place we haven't won for 25 years, match Arsenal well and then have the cheek to gain a win from a mistake by their goalie? Absolutely disgraceful, nobody has ever done that before, we should know our place on the EPL wheel of fortune.

Meanwhile, here in the real world, Everton gain an exceptional win away playing very well despite our known limitations. Fantastic win no matter how the goal went in, a very good performance against a still very good Arsenal team.

European football is possible but this could prove to have been a good season with great prospects for next season. We know now exactly what we have and exactly what we need. We've had a great series of results recently with many players out and forged by hard work and some very good individual performances. If that is the mythical mediocrity, then I accept it for now.

John Boon
175 Posted 24/04/2021 at 07:16:48
I watched this game after I knew the score. This was not deliberate, but it made me think that I should do it all the time. Particularly, because this season I am a complete bag of nerves watching Everton. I would own up to being irrational as my passion for the game takes away common sense. It certainly does NOT help when my long suffering wife gives me that much overused, unasked for and unwanted advice, "It's only a game" NO IT IS NOT is no longer worth reminding her.

When you know you have won it is so easy. I had read all the fan's comments, mostly about how bad almost everybody was. With this in mind I decided, along with my newly adopted serenity, that I would ONLY try to look for the good points in each player. While that was quite a challenge I was able to see something positve about the whole team.

OH with the exception of Delph, because any player who doesn't know what socks to wear should not be playing for Everton. Mind you I could not really recognise him because I had hardly ever seen him since he signed. Plus when he does play he usually does as much for the opposition as he does for Everton.Oh Dear! I'm getting nasty again.

Back to the game. WE were all so lucky to be able to witness the goal of the season as Richy carefully aimed the ball at the goalie's right leg so it would bounce into the net. A piece of sublime skill. BUT all you folk who saw the game live thought it was lucky. How wrong.

One more thrill filled game with goals (well one) and unending action. The one we did score was wrongly NOT considered as a shot on goal. Oh and a new question from my wife "Is there something wrong with you?" she could not understand why I was not screaming at the TV and threatening both teams and the little old man reffing, well pretending to.

Thomas Richards
176 Posted 24/04/2021 at 07:22:40
Trying to think of another club whose fans, having seen thier team win at a club for the first time after 25 years, would argue long into the night that the opposition deserved a draw.

No. Can't think of one.

Steve Shave
177 Posted 24/04/2021 at 07:45:58
I watched the game last night - the first in 5 matches as I felt I've needed a break from football (partially due to feeling dispirited from yet another false dawn and secondly because the game is failing to grip me with its usual vigour). I think some of the above criticism is a touch unfair, we played OK - no great shakes but certainly not badly. When we had the ball we pushed it around ok, we probed but like Arsenal I felt we lacked bite and penetration, something that I hope will be addressed by a new winger in the summer and a fitter DCL. Impressed with Godfrey (as always!) Coleman and Pickford (who has come back to form 2nd half of this season - thankfully, must be the hair!). Look, we took 3 points away at Arsenal, what's not to like? Somehow we are still in the mix despite being the biggest chokers in the PL. COYB!
Martin Mason
178 Posted 24/04/2021 at 07:45:59
I've watched the game again and say it was a very good performance and that the goal was not just a mistake by Leno.

MOTM? For me, it was Richarlison for the massive amount of work he did covering back down the right-hand side and for his "goal".

Great win, Blues.

Andy Walker
179 Posted 24/04/2021 at 07:48:45
You got to hand it to Ancelucky he somehow has got results away to most of the ‘top’ 6 teams:

Liverpool - WIN
Spurs -WIN
Arsenal - WIN
Man U - DRAW
Chelsea - LOST
City - to be played

Classic Italian style, less possession, defend well and hit them in the break.

We do though need at least 2 box to box midfielders with pace that can carry the ball forward, as well as a right back obviously. Hopefully Carlo has them on his shopping list.

Danny O’Neill
180 Posted 24/04/2021 at 07:49:30
Okay, I've given my assessment of the performance. The result; a fantastic one and I'll take those all day. I don't recall Liverpool bemoaning taking 3 points when Pickford threw the ball into the net for them in the 90 100th minute after both teams had played out for what would have been a fair and deserved draw. That's football.

Great victory. If we talk progress, one thing we could point to is that mostly (not completely but mostly), our game management has improved. And on top of that, so has our season management.

I've been repeatedly saying since October that both during the game and the season, it's about staying in the fight. We have mostly done that and are very much in reach of the pre-season target. If anything, due to the nature of how the season has unfolded, we are arguably ahead of it. Even for doubters like me, Champions League is on the table. That won't have been the realistic target, but it is there if we don't choke or simply fall short because of the shortfalls in the squad.

We may not have liked everything we've seen along the way, but that is down to management. Managing the tools at our disposal to get the most out of them. We will add better tools in the summer and be even stronger next season. We have an opportunity here, both on the pitch and on the back of the moral high ground we are currently standing on. Looking down on those like we played last night. League position wise and morally.

Dave Ganley
181 Posted 24/04/2021 at 07:52:41
Thomas #176, totally agree, think some woukd rather we lose. We weren't great bu any stretch of the imagination but got the 3 points thanks very much. Been many times when we have been robbed. Those complaining get a grip. 3 points off CL place, right back on the mix. Am sure some are more happy moaning
Danny O’Neill
182 Posted 24/04/2021 at 07:56:11
You mean the shameful 6 Andy Walker. In terms of the actual current top 6, you can add Leicester to that list, a team we have taken 4 points off.
Peter Warren
183 Posted 24/04/2021 at 08:03:41
That's good, Thomas, as it was an underserved win. I'm made up to win but don't need to hear fairytales.

It was another drab performance but being hard to beat and nicking a goal or two seems to be working for us away this season.

Paul Birmingham
184 Posted 24/04/2021 at 08:04:47
Celebrate and enjoy this weekend in view of Everton’s win, there’s not been many of late.

Great if the Toon bust their hoodoo at our old ground today.

Let’s see whose available for Villa in what is a must win.

Plenty of ups and downs to come, in the final weeks of the season, gonna check the gee gees and see if there’s any decent races today and try and build a pot with last nights money..

Any one any tips?

Thanks.

Steve Croston
185 Posted 24/04/2021 at 08:07:19
The 2 teams last night looked equally incapable of scoring and a draw probably would have been a fair result. But, as we all know, footy results sometimes come down to the slimmest of margins; Leno screwed up and Pickford's save at the end was brilliant.

I'm delighted and if we can hit a run of form now, who knows what might happen. I just wish Man City away wasn't our final game of the season!

Thomas Richards
186 Posted 24/04/2021 at 08:15:19
Me neither, Peter. Waste of time.

Out of interest, what fairytales have you seen on this thread?

Jerome Shields
187 Posted 24/04/2021 at 08:27:46
I disagree with the assumption that Everton's goal was lucky or farcical.

Ancelotti allowed Everton to absorb pressure, delaying substitutions. Even the commentator's sidekick on Hes Goal said Arsenal could be being set up for an Everton counter-attack. On cue, Everton did counter attack. A ball was delivered from midfield to Richarlison in space. He was able to advance into the penalty area to the byeline.

Calvert-Lewin at last done what he is coached to do: he attacked the near post. Richarlison, as coached, drove in a low cross. The Calvert-Lewin run was enough to confuse both the defender and the goalkeeper, resulting in the goal.

The goal was a result of good tactical play and players doing what they are coached to do. From an Everton perspective, the goal was neither lucky nor farcical.

Richard Nelson
188 Posted 24/04/2021 at 08:27:47
Kevin @ 147

Agreed mate, he had Aubameyang & Lacazette in his back pocket all night..!

Trevor Peers
189 Posted 24/04/2021 at 08:29:04
Good to see Carlo calling for a players' wage cap in The Times this morning, this is an important statement about our way back to sanity and the main reason why the game has lost touch with reality.

As for the game last night, it just proved the vast majority of players are hugely overpaid for so-called entertainment; the game itself was appalling and devoid of any passion or drive. How players can justify their huge wages is a national scandal that needs to be addressed immediately, if we are ever to see decent football again IMO.

Danny Broderick
190 Posted 24/04/2021 at 08:33:49
David (156),

Sigurdsson player of the season????!!!!!

I thought nothing would top last night's rubbish but you've just done it, my friend!

Covering a lot of ground is no reason to give Sigurdsson MotM, like some are suggesting, or player of the season!!

An average player has the odd good game. A good player has the odd average game. Just about sums Sigurdsson up...

Sam Barrett
191 Posted 24/04/2021 at 08:36:17
Defensive mistakes by Everton last week = we are shite.

Defensive mistake by opposition this week = we are shite.

Can't win, even when we do!

Robert Tressell
192 Posted 24/04/2021 at 08:37:29
When the expectation is to win games, you don't credit luck. The RS would headline that game as "Resolute Gunners force Reds to win ugly" or "Leno cracks as the pressure tells".

It's all bollocks of course but it's about overhauling this inferiority complex that we've had for so long. Listen to knobheads like Mickey Quinn etc. The superiority complex and propaganda machine in full flow, getting others to believe the hype about VVD etc. They win games before they're even played because of the attitude.

David Greenwood
193 Posted 24/04/2021 at 08:42:36
Terrible banner headline Michael !

We deserved that win. We defended brilliantly, were very organised and coughed up very few chances.

We didn't create much but we created more than they did.

It wasn't a great watch but it's all about points. I'd happily take thirty league games a season like that.
Anyone who says otherwise needs to give their head a wobble.

We're progressing, we still have the terrible performance in us of course, but we're moving the right direction.

Enjoy the weekend, its going good so far!

Ray Roche
194 Posted 24/04/2021 at 08:45:06
Arsenal 2-2 Everton

Remember? When we out-played a good Wenger's Arsenal away? We scored two good goals, including Pienaar running from the half-way line to lob the keeper, and they scored with two massive deflections. Were they claiming they were lucky? No, 'That's football'. Let's just accept a bit of good luck in our favour for a change, eh?

Regarding Delph's socks. Liverpool have been pulled up over the same thing this season. Their all-red socks have appeared to have a white foot on them for some time and it was getting to the stage where it was half the way up their shin. They were eventually pulled by the officials and ordered to cover the white lower part of the sock.

Apparently, what a lot of players are doing, is wearing a white sports sock and the coloured part of the sock is in fact like a sleeve which doesn't actually go over the foot. It's just blue in our case or red in theirs and only goes from the knee to the ankle. God knows why, maybe the socks aren't comfortable and the sports sock helps.

Kim Vivian
195 Posted 24/04/2021 at 08:56:35
Barry 155. It's simply a haircut thing.
David Hayes
196 Posted 24/04/2021 at 09:01:00
Tony #154 thank you, RS "Swiss Goblin" I am still laughing two hours after reading it.
Barry Rathbone
197 Posted 24/04/2021 at 09:06:23
Don't understand people getting upset about this being classed as a fortuitous result - it was - and not for the first time.

The trouble is luck runs out and a more determined, positive way of playing will be needed to cope and prosper but here we are at the arse end of the season with no sign of such method in sight.

It goes without saying we're all delighted with 3 points but the more forward thinking are right to say it does nothing to hide an obvious fault line which if not addressed will put us back to square one.

I would volunteer to sort it out but I'm busy taking down trees at the bottom of the garden and prepping the ground for the annexe I can't be everywhere.

Andrew Clare
198 Posted 24/04/2021 at 09:07:21
Unfortunately missed the game but delighted with the result. Another bad record put to rest- what a terrible 30 years we have had. At that time we were as big as anyone.
I am confident Carlo will get us back to where we belong. It might not be pretty at the moment but who cares? Once we we have further additions it will change.
John Hall
199 Posted 24/04/2021 at 09:19:19
30 points away from home ! Can take that even though most of the wins away have been pretty boring and heavily reliant on a sound defensive set up. Better home form would probably already have set us up for Champions League qualification but would no doubt see us out before the group stages with this current squad. I have been somewhat critical of Carlo at times this season for some of the performances at home but he does know how to set us up defensively. I now accept to take what he offers and hope that squad improvement next term gives us the ability to play a more free flowing and expansive set up. Based on his options, especially in the wide berths and attacking midfield positions then he has to play horses for courses and had excelled at this in most away games. Two top class midfielders and a budding star like Eberechi Eze at QPR would suffice for me plus cover for Seamus and we won't be far away. Carlo has to finish the rebuild during the next two windows and shift the rest of the deadwood which for me includes a number of the current players to include Delph, Iwobi, Siggy, Gomes, Bernard and the others either out on loan or out of contract.
Richard Mason
200 Posted 24/04/2021 at 09:27:35
John, Eze isxat crystal palace.
Robert Tressell
201 Posted 24/04/2021 at 09:31:02
Sigurdsson has something like 8 goals and 9 assists this season in a ponderous team often lacking width. He has done this despite often being played out of his natural, specialist position. He absolutely has his limitations but in a side that doesn't score many goals at all it will be hard to replace that return. He leaves for free, like Rodriguez, at the end of next season. Their departures will give us a real headache.
Christy Ring
202 Posted 24/04/2021 at 09:37:11
Just heard "Delph's blue socks are a week away from being fully fit". I still don't know why Carlo brought him on ahead of Davies, if I was Tom I'd be totally pissed off, because we were totally lacking pace in midfield with Gomes and Siggy together. No matter whatever about the game itself, taking three points from the Emirates is massive, look at our performances against Spurs and Palace, played both of them off the park and still only got two points, so let's take the victory with a smile against one of the 'Greedy Six'.
Martin Mason
203 Posted 24/04/2021 at 09:42:57
Barry@197 The more forward thinking? You mean you of course? Every Evertonian and his dog know what the fault lines are in the squad the only difference is that we aren't deluded into thinking that only us know it. It doesn't need forward thinking it's called blatantly obvious.
Whatever this win was it certainly wasn't undeserving or lucky, there is no such thing. It was a very good performance and a well earned win. The future is for the club is massively positive and yet a tiny minority of our otherwise great fan base see just negativity rather than just rough patches along the road that were inevitable. For me it's a reflection on them certainly not what is happening at Everton.
Paul Birmingham
204 Posted 24/04/2021 at 09:43:47
John@199,that good perspective on the away wins this season.
Kunal Desai
205 Posted 24/04/2021 at 09:57:57
Grinding out wins, that's all that matters at this stage of the season, don't give a hoot how it comes, yes it's a stroke of luck with the goal
Personally for me i'd fast forward the remainder of this season, the next six games can't finish soon enough. I would rather look forward to some new fresh faces we bring in over the summer. Half of these players hopefully moved on or become squad players at best.
Laurie Hartley
206 Posted 24/04/2021 at 10:00:57
Tony Hill# 61 - got as far as your post and had to comment. That is classic - well in Tony. UTFB!!
Thomas Richards
207 Posted 24/04/2021 at 10:01:47
Let us know how you get on with the garden shed Barry
Peter Mills
208 Posted 24/04/2021 at 10:02:22
I know footballers are rather cosseted these days, but one would have hoped they are self-sufficient enough to notice they are putting on different coloured socks to 15 or 16 colleagues in the same room.

Other than that I enjoyed Godfrey’s tackle, the ball trickling into the Arsenal goal, and Pickford’s save.

Mike Doyle
209 Posted 24/04/2021 at 10:06:17
Ray 194] these days, when out jogging, I wear what are called ‘calf guards’ - essentially tight fitting long socks but without the foot section. They do help me avoid pulling a calf muscle.
My daughter reckons they are exactly the same as the ‘compression socks’ worn by the old people in the care home she works at - the only difference being that mine have the logo of a sports brand.
I’m wondering if this means that Delph and myself should just accept we are knackered old has-beens who would be better suited to an old persons home than a sporting environment?
Henrik Lyngsie
210 Posted 24/04/2021 at 10:13:35
Robert 201 I wholeheartedly agree. Goals and assist will never be out of fashion. Gylfi has his limitations in particular when he is played too deep and he will always be slow. But he works hard and is very professional. And most importantly he is always a goal threat. We should never underestimate that particular skill.
Against Spurs with just one striker Gylfi and James played very well together. Yesterday with DCL back Gylfi had to play deeper and still delivered a very professional performance and had a free kick on the bar.
Tony Shelby
211 Posted 24/04/2021 at 10:14:32
What a fucking ridiculous headline. Absolutely mind-boggling.

We beat Arsenal away, looked the more potent attacking force for sustained periods throughout the match and are within striking distance of the top 4.

Maybe you want jam on it too but I’ll take that right now.

Laurie Hartley
212 Posted 24/04/2021 at 10:28:42
Barry # 155 - Richarlison is a cracking footballer if he is played in his best position which is on the left flank. I wish I could get this into Carlo’s head.

When fit he is the second player on my team sheet after Godfrey.

Brian Harrison
213 Posted 24/04/2021 at 10:30:42
Well you would think with beating Liverpool, Spurs and Arsenal away as well as 7 other away victories we would be sitting pretty near top of the league, but this is Everton so for every good there must be a bad and our home record is relegation standard. Last night Arsenal were without their 2 main strikers and looking at the side Arteta selected then he is obviously putting all his eggs into winning the Europa league. Whereas we had pretty much a fully fit squad for Carlo to select from, with the exception of Doucoure and Gbamin.

I think Tom Davies would have been disappointed to see Gomes selected ahead of him, but we had pretty much our best side on the park. I thought James turned in his worst performance since joining us, and I am far from convinced that we can ever make top 4 with DCL, Richarlison and James being our regular front 3. I hear reports that DCL is one of the quickest players in the squad, well it certainly isn't over 10 to 15 yards, like Vardy is. There is no doubt he has improved and he has become a real predator in the 6 yard box. But otherwise he doesnt contribute much and of late his goals have dried up. Richarlison seems to be on a mission as everytime he receives the ball within 20 yards of goal he doesnt look to pass irrispective of how many defenders he has around him no thoughts other than I am going to try and score. James is a great passer of the ball but has absolutely no pace and very rarely does he go past people with the ball, so even when we do break because of his lack of pace he isn't quick enough to join the attack.

Where ever we finish this season this summer will be one of Carlos most important transfer windows. Our forwards don't score enough goals and added to that neither does our midfield, so both these areas must be addressed. My other concern is Carlo has taken over from Raneiri as the tinker man, we and the players don't know from week to week what system we will be playing or which players will be in which positions. Surely confidence comes from consistency and if we make so many changes each week how can we possibly hope to achieve any consistency.

John Hall
214 Posted 24/04/2021 at 10:42:21
Richard @ 200.

Thanks for the correction. Can blame it on my hangover as I stayed up until 3 am and then watched the game until 5 am our time here. Not much left in the bottle of double black which we started late afternoon yesterday.

Rolls Royce of a player Eze. We paid 30 odd million for Iwobi and I think Palace paid less than 20 million for him.

Ian Horan
215 Posted 24/04/2021 at 10:42:46
Now the dust has settled, on reflection performance left a lot to be desired. However it was approximately 94 ish hours between the end of Monday nights game against Spurs to k.o against Arsenal. I am sure we all agreed DCL looked unfit or was playing within himself. James was poor, Richi is a shadow of last seasons player, Allan looked shattered. Monday teatime if I was offered 4points from those games I would have snapped your hand off. Remember everyone said how well we played against Spurs. One final thing DCL needs to forget ababout trying to play like Kane, coming deep as a play maker. He needs to stay in the box thats were he got all his goals earlier this season
Danny Broderick
216 Posted 24/04/2021 at 10:44:09
Sigurdsson’s goals and assists should be half decent - he takes every corner, penalty and free kick we have! It’s what he does - or rather doesn’t do - in open play which lets him down. For some players, the ball is their friend - e.g. Rodriguez. For Sigurdsson, the ball’s his worst enemy, he gets rid of it ASAP every time. This is why he’s in and out of the team.

If we wanna improve next season, a better all round midfielder than Sigurdsson is key. Put Rodriguez or Digne on set pieces, they can get the goals and assists Sigurdsson currently does. Job done.

Andrew Ellams
217 Posted 24/04/2021 at 10:51:36
Good result but the team is crying out for a more pacey and dynamic input. If not we will really struggle to move forwards again next year
Geoff Trenner
218 Posted 24/04/2021 at 10:54:39
Just noticed this on the BBC

‘This was the 200th top-flight meeting between Arsenal and Everton, becoming just the third fixture in top-flight history to have been played on 200 occasions (also Aston Villa v Everton and Liverpool v Everton, both 204).’

Mike Corcoran
219 Posted 24/04/2021 at 11:05:09
Is Ancelottis talk of a salary cap a sly way of saying that he thinks his squad doesn’t earn their wages?
Thomas Richards
220 Posted 24/04/2021 at 11:07:09
Cue the queue.

"has he asked for a cap on his own wages"

Derek Moore
221 Posted 24/04/2021 at 11:11:08
I've got Gooner friends here in NZ and have suffered this twenty five year winless streak more than most blues outside of the UK.
I just assumed that when we finally won a game at the Arses new gaff it would be on the back of a performance I could use as a cudgel to hand out some well deserved stick to them.
We got the three points finally but I do not get to hand out any stick. We were luckier than them on the day, and that's about it. If not for a farcical VAR ruling we likely lose that game. Thank fuck the penalty was so soft in the first place, but ultimately both decisions were absolute rank.
I really wanted the moral victory to go with the three points, but that will have to wait. That being said we've had moral victories minus the points many many times before - I do much prefer this outcome. You can want your team to play well AND win, despite the seeming belief of some Blues ths amounts to treason or disloyalty of some kind.


I think a part of me has always disliked the RS and other jammy teams who never seem to recognize the insane luck they've enjoyed on their way to triumph. When we've enjoyed a similar vein of luck like here it just feels churlish or wrong to me to behave like they would. Acknowledging luck isn't disloyalty IMV either.
I think the two Barrys, Rathbone and Williams, and Ernie Baywood had the most incisive comments here. Having a team that gets lucky once in a while would be a fine new experience for all of us Evertonians would it not?

David Thomas
222 Posted 24/04/2021 at 11:12:26
Kevin 13,

Which games in your opinion has Holgate been better than Godfrey?

Jamie Evans
223 Posted 24/04/2021 at 11:21:32
Take that win. We can now compete away with most teams.

Big summer needed for transfers. We need some genuine top class wingers, who can beat a man either way (some lone like a mahrez - not a zaha) and have end product and goal threat.

Then a Modric type playmaker from midfield, someone who can make us keep possession better against the likes of city.

Striker back up and a beast of a right back.
Over to you brands...

Peter Mills
224 Posted 24/04/2021 at 11:23:17
The photo on The Guardian site shows the ball in the net, Richarlison turning away, and DCL with his arms outstretched in a “why didn’t you pass it to me?” gesture.

It seems a peculiar way to celebrate a goal.

Colin Glassar
225 Posted 24/04/2021 at 11:27:26
Peter, did anyone really celebrate that goal apart from Richarlison? That game had a very weird vibe throughout. I wonder if the fans protesting and the weeks events had any bearing on the players?
Steve Carse
226 Posted 24/04/2021 at 11:36:57
John (96), 'a very limited group of players' is your assessment of the playing staff and the reason we've not performed better. Interesting then that all bar two of the starters last night were current internationals. And the top performers were the two non-internationals. Not that limited surely.
Dave Abrahams
227 Posted 24/04/2021 at 11:43:19
Robert (192) Enjoyed your post, lots of truth in it,we won, everyone agrees with that and are happy we won,no doubt about that, the performance is what the main debate is about, I go along with Michael, I thought it was a pathetic, putrid performance,my words, if that makes me a so called “miserable bastard “ I can live with that, I’d rather be that way, tell the truth and shame the devil than delude myself into believing that the win was deserved.
Peter Mills
228 Posted 24/04/2021 at 11:43:26
Fair point Colin. This week has shown many of the most unpleasant aspects of how the game has gone, from the greedy stupidity of the 6, through the poor quality of football we see, to penalties being awarded for the merest touch on a shin-pad, and the torturous lunacy of the application of VAR.

And Jon Moss. And Klopp.

Danny O’Neill
229 Posted 24/04/2021 at 11:47:16
That could be the case Colin. If you look at games involving the breakaway clubs across Europe, it is possible events have impacted games and results.
Thomas Richards
230 Posted 24/04/2021 at 11:48:23
We need to get back to being the gallant losers asap
Tony Shelby
231 Posted 24/04/2021 at 11:52:09
We play well and lose = Whinge

We play well and draw = Whinge

We put in a mediocre performance, break a 25 year old hoodoo and win = Whinge

Confidence affects performance and our run of results leading up to yesterday undoubtedly had an impact on the squad. Throw in the ESL bollocks from earlier in the week and how that must have affected non-Big Six players mentally.

Let’s take the win and the confidence it should give us and move on.

We seem determined to lick our wounds even when there aren’t any! I swear there’s a section of Everton support that would find fault even if we consistently won silverware. Heaven forbid that we fortuitously won a cup final...

Kevin Prytherch
232 Posted 24/04/2021 at 12:08:04
David 222
The derby, Palace and Brighton.

I only managed to catch the first half last night, but he was better in the first half.

There were 3 occasions in the first half that stood out for me, when Allan lost the ball and Holgate immediately picked it up, a cut back from out wide that Holgate read and an early cross in the box that Holgate read. All 3 times Holgate was reading the game well, whereas Godfrey, at the moment, relies on his physical ability. I think they compliment each other very well and, if we sign Aaron’s, we could have a solid defence for the next 5 years.

Len Hawkins
233 Posted 24/04/2021 at 12:33:51
Christy #202,

I assume he brought Delph on to play out his season as the little he did must have caused some season or career-ending strain.

Being from a Railway family I have always read books on Railways and in the Oldham area is a place called Delph and the local train was called the Delph Donkey, how much foresight did the people of East Lancashire have in marrying the two words?

Bogdan Kotarlic
234 Posted 24/04/2021 at 12:34:36
Everton played well and deserved to win. A very important victory that could help us finish even in the top four at the end of the season.

Arsenal had most of the possession but they didn`t create almost any chances, except at the very end of the match when Pickford made a great save.

Everton, on the other hand, let Arsenal play but counter-attacked very well and had some nice chances (Richarlison in the first half, Sigurdsson twice). In the end, Leno's mistake gave us a goal and a victory but, although it was a very clumsy reaction by Leno, it was very much what Everton deserved.

We can now with more optimism expect next game, we play Aston Villa at Goodison Park and, if we win, that Top 4 finish could be ours. But, given our home form this season we must play at 100 percent versus Villa, they are a good team.

This Arsenal team is probably their worst in the last 30 years. A very average squad with no great players.

For me, the Man of the Match was James Rodriguez, who played very well in the centre of our midfield.
Stephen Brown
235 Posted 24/04/2021 at 12:43:00
The significance of winning at The Emirates, Anfield and The Spurs Stadium this season should not be overlooked. The first huge step on the road to smashing this inferiority complex that’s been plaguing us for years/decades.

All the remaining games are winnable so you never know.

Christopher Timmins
236 Posted 24/04/2021 at 12:49:04
A very welcome 3 points which keeps us in the hunt for European qualification. It must be said it was achieved against an injury hit Arsenal team. The 2 points we dropped against Spurs were quickly recovered.

Performance level wise it was more akin to the Brighton game than the Spurs one. The positives had to be :

Pickford, Coleman, Godfrey and Holgate. Holgate in particular deserves credit for the manner in which he performed given the Spurs debacle. Not many had him in the starting 11 yesterday.

Doucoure is a big loss as he adds much needed energy and legs to an otherwise pedestrian midfield.

6 games to go and all to play for!

Steve Brown
237 Posted 24/04/2021 at 13:04:13
This season's performances, including BIG wins against the so-called Big 6, seems to be creating some unease due to the pragmatism of the performances and tactical set-ups. With 6 games left we are 4 points off a Champions League.

Over the last 25 years, we have seen versions of attractive, losing football or unattractive losing football, resulting in failure for 25 years. I don't care to watch Everton falling short year on year any more, so I am willing to live with this until we can strengthen further in the summer.

Darren Hind
238 Posted 24/04/2021 at 13:13:37
I guess it's a question of what you want. Is winning more important than entertaining? Are they equally important?

My take is this: If you are not going to win anything playing anti-football (and we're not)... Why the fuck would you even contemplate playing it? Is it because he thinks it will get us a couple of places higher? Are people really prepared to trade proper footy to finish top six... Really?

The fact that some people think we have to play this way disturbs me. It's total bollocks. We will play inferior opposition for at least two-thirds of our games and we still won't have the courage to go toe to toe with them. Who can say we wouldn't have been finishing top four if we had shown the courage to look to win games? There will never be a better opportunity to gate-crash the party.

The only consolation I feel after watching that hideous excuse for football last night is that we won ugly as opposed to losing ugly... but I won't lose sight of the fact that we were indeed fucken ugly. It's meant to be entertainment. That's why so many millions of people part with their money to go and watch.

If this was a one-off or the 2nd/3rd time we had won like this, we would take the ugly win and have celebrated through the night. But it's not is it? This is who we have become.

We are Carlo Ancelotti's Everton and we are damned unpretty.

Thomas Richards
239 Posted 24/04/2021 at 13:30:24
"I guess it's a question of what you want. Is winning more important than entertaining?"

At this stage of the project? 100% Yes. Next season is different. We will see better football as better players come in.

"Are people really prepared to trade proper footy to finish top six... Really?"

At this stage of the project? 100% Yes.

Nick Page
240 Posted 24/04/2021 at 13:31:07
Quick question: We have five arranged fixtures left and one is missing. Is that Villa away? So we have to play Villa twice in the last six games? Could be awkward; decent side Villa. 5/6 are winnable but whether we turn up motivated and leave it all on the pitch is a different question.
Jamie Crowley
241 Posted 24/04/2021 at 13:37:29
That whole debacle of the penalty and the offside was a joke.

Firstly, that was never a penalty. Whoever that Arsenal player was, he 100% embellished the most minimum of contact and the cheating bastard went down trying to manufacture a penalty where one didn't exist.

After that con-show and display of shitting on sport entirely, the refs actually exacted justice when they had an opportunity to do so with VAR. I don't care at all that the VAR situation was a hair's length offside. It negated a terrible, terrible decision on the penalty and made the game stand where it should have: 0-0.

I love soccer / footy. But the cheating divers really, really get under my skin and they frankly ruin the game.

We deserved that win, and Arsenal didn't. 1-0.

Tony Shelby
242 Posted 24/04/2021 at 13:46:06
Last night was not anti-football! It wasn't free-flowing but it was also nothing like the turgid dross of Allardyce's tenure.

We all loved the Everton of August and September last year but the frailties of that team, with its swashbuckling approach, were soon sussed and exploited and we then nosedived down the table.

Ancelotti is being pragmatic. He's personally been the reason why we attracted the likes of James and he knows that European football next season will help him recruit even better quality over the Summer.

In the corresponding fixture in 2005 we got twatted 7-0. We went on to finish 4th but with negative goal difference. How does that sit within the ‘purity test' that some on here seem so desperate to apply? Presumably you were all too embarrassed to be turn up for the Villarreal match later that Summer.

Personally I don't want Champions League football for us next season. Europa League qualification and a strengthened squad are the next stages in our evolution. Then we'll be in a position to consistently play more entertaining football.

But apparently some on here think Richarlison is a shadow of his former self – despite being yesterday's MotM – and that we were the poorer team – despite Kevin Campbell saying that he thought we deserved to win. I'll take the latter's opinion, and those of Ancelotti, over you lot. Try a course of Certraline or maybe some long walks in the park!

Rob Halligan
243 Posted 24/04/2021 at 13:46:49
Winning first, entertainment second. That's why I've spent an absolute fortune down the years, home, away and abroad wanting us to win. I couldn't give a toss if we win games like last night, but play "Ugly" as Darren describes it.

What's the point in playing in a fantastic match every week, but losing 5-4? Well done Everton, played well but lost a great game. Fuck that, I've yet to see any records with the words "Lost but was an entertaining game", or "Won but was ugly" next to the result.

Robert Tressell
244 Posted 24/04/2021 at 13:51:27
Add 3 x c£30m players to that team and the football will be better. Aarons, Neres and Rabiot or Dagba, Bailey and DeBeek or whoever. Then we will not only win but the spectacle will be better too.
Dave Abrahams
245 Posted 24/04/2021 at 14:01:22
Tony (242)Tony, what is Certraline? Will it help me to believe that Richarlison was really MOTM last night.
Danny O’Neill
246 Posted 24/04/2021 at 14:10:09
You can liken this to the Moyes years in some ways. And I mean parallels, not exact similarities as clearly the pedigree of both managers is poles apart. One has won everything, the other nothing.

In the early years of the Moyes regime, we played terrible, turgid football. But it was necessary and based on the players we had. Most of us understood what was needed even if we didn't like what we were watching. We were more interested in the result in the early days and years.

As time went on we started to expect more and rightfully so. Moyes failed to break the glass ceiling and people rightfully got frustrated with him.

Now Ancelotti is not going to get or be here for 11 years. But for me, he gets more than 15 months to sort out a shit show that he inherited. He may have pedigree but isn't a magician with a magic wand. I guess I'm an apologist in some eyes. I call it realism.

If in 12 - 18 months we are still only focusing on results then yes, we question. Right now, and at this stage of this season, we are now in the results business of the business end of the season.

Mike Oates
247 Posted 24/04/2021 at 14:18:54
Great result, dodgy performance again, but rode our luck with good defence.

Only negative if the Arsenal fans are determined to get Kronke out, who will likely take ever, who can afford them - Usmanov, our behind the scenes benefactor. We need his £30m starters for naming rights ++++ £m for many other things. Hope Kronke stays !

Thomas Richards
248 Posted 24/04/2021 at 14:20:30
Rob H.

Thats plenty for me.

Coming from a fan who doesnt miss a game home and away backs my thoughts on it.

Danny O

Spot on

Ian Horan
249 Posted 24/04/2021 at 14:21:57
Let's see, Blackpool, Wigan, Bournemouth all played an open attractive brand of football. Bumbss off seats loads of goals a game, the song "Vindaloo" springs to mind... I am sure the above fans loved the open entertainment at the time but look were they are!!!!
Thomas Richards
250 Posted 24/04/2021 at 14:26:00
Farcical goal earns Newcastle an underserved point
Tony Shelby
251 Posted 24/04/2021 at 14:33:57
Dave (245) - No but it might help you step back from the microscopic detail and see the bigger picture.
Rob Halligan
252 Posted 24/04/2021 at 14:36:29
Win ugly, or draw pretty? I know what I’d rather have, Thomas!
Thomas Richards
253 Posted 24/04/2021 at 14:40:26
Me too Rob.

Every time

Dave Abrahams
254 Posted 24/04/2021 at 14:43:34
Tony ninety minutes is hardly microscopic detail, I can see the big picture,I’m just going on last nights game, we were lucky to win and didn’t deserve to, I think you are sensible enough to have your own opinion rather than quote Kevin Campbells opinion, Ancelotti, by the way, said we were lucky it should have been a draw, again just another man’s opinion, oh Tony, did you really believe Charlie was man of the match, really?, again just one man’s opinion, one of the pundits commentating on the match.
Alan J Thompson
255 Posted 24/04/2021 at 14:52:34
You can think that, in this game, we brilliantly followed the plan and scored a well crafted goal our play deserved or you can think that it was a mediocre, at best workmanlike display in which we scored a lucky (for us) goal owing to a goalkeeping mistake from one of our few attacks.

I, for one, sincerely hope this is not the level of display that we accept as the zenith because the result is acceptable, but a step on the journey to a lot more entertaining and prolific style. There is more to the game than being an out and out attacking team in the same way as there must be more than just being somebody difficult to score against.

I can remember the promised land, as distant as it seems now, when the School of Science was more than something commentators use as a sly dig.

Tony Shelby
256 Posted 24/04/2021 at 14:56:12
Dave - You’re right, we all have our opinions and mine are probably somewhere between Kev’s and Carlo’s.

Surely though you can see how yesterday represents progress?

If two years ago we’d been told that Ancelotti would be our manager and that we’d beat the Shite, Spurs and the Arse away from home in one season and still have a chance of CL football, I’m pretty certain that 99.9% of Blues would’ve excitedly said “yes”.

That’s exactly where we are, mate.

Dave Abrahams
257 Posted 24/04/2021 at 15:17:28
Tony (256), Yesterday before the game I was, for the first time in months, very confident we would win against Arsenal going on the strength of a very good performance against Spurs,a game we fully deserved to win over the ninety minutes, let down by two bad mistakes. Then I watched the match and was left deflated by the performance and tactics of Carlo, but we escaped with the three points which will leave us in a position to get into Europe, which is another story.

Tony, I realise the position Everton were in when Carlo took over, especially the very weak midfield, I also understand the injuries week after week that have stalled the progress and I think we will get better, with better players coming in, but Tony, there have been plenty of games, especially at home, when I have scratched my head and wondered what is Carlo doing, he gets wins away which gets you on your feet and thinking Yis!!, then the next week he perplexes you, by changing the team and the tactics which deflates you and brings you back to earth. I just hope that he eventually gets it right and we see a formation and a team we can understand and appreciate, give us some pride going to the game knowing and expecting we will win with style. I’m like every Bluenose I get behind the team before every game wanting the best for us, but it’s been a long time coming Tony, and I watch each game and say it as I see it, just my opinion.

Kevin Molloy
258 Posted 24/04/2021 at 15:22:10
Dave
the tactics can seem infuriating. I like to think though that we are undergoing a process where a top line manager is inculcating his players in the art of proper defending. We are becoming more and more difficult I think to score against. I think that as the team becomes more used to not conceding, that will pay dividends in the medium term. He's setting us up in the classic Italian way. And it is a way which has been tested to destruction down the years and been found to be successful. The one problem may be the lack of patience of the fans next season watching it at Goodison, because undoubtedly at the moment we are a hard watch. But hopefully this is a transitional phase
Jeff Armstrong
259 Posted 24/04/2021 at 15:30:21
I really do think things will improve next term, once crowds are back, the fans at Goodison will not put up with some of the performances from both the team and the manager, he’s been getting away with it because of the lack of crowds, but our fans will only let them get away with one or two before voicing their frustration.
I also believe Ancelotti knows where we need to improve, we need more width, quicker midfielders and a couple more forward options.
Quite where all these players are going to come from is up to the big hitters Brands and Ancellotti, they get paid enough, so do your jobs!
Tony Hill
260 Posted 24/04/2021 at 15:39:27
Dave @257, we are all desperate to see proper Evertonian football. Last night was not that, of course. In fact, we have had precious little of it all season.

But we have a chance to get into a position where we can attract better players and where we can wash away our underlying fear of success. Let's just get to that point. If we can do that over the coming games while playing well, then that will be great. If we do it while playing horrible, scruffy stuff, then still great.

But I'll be fully joining the chorus of complaint if we carry on playing football which betrays our principles into next season. I think most of us will.

By the way, you're never a miserable bastard. You're an anchor of sanity on here while many others, me very much included, veer all over the place.

Stan Schofield
261 Posted 24/04/2021 at 16:05:05
In truth, the important thing is winning. If we win more games, people will put up with defensive football. Winning is essential, whereas attractive football on top of that is desirable. That’s a fact.

The way we’ve been for so long, mediocre at winning, is the thing to be changed with top priority. If that requires defensive football, so be it. But once we get into the habit of winning more frequently, then it’s more likely that attractive attacking football will become more prevalent.

No Evertonian will, in reality, put attractive football at a higher priority than winning. It’s the same with every football supporter. If we win frequently enough, Evertonians will tolerate, if not wholly accept, defensive football.

Dave Abrahams
262 Posted 24/04/2021 at 16:05:47
Tony (260), well I think a lot of players will leave in the summer, players who have been a drain on the wage bill while not doing much on the field, the loss of paying their wages will help in the recruitment of some new players to improve the standard of performances and put us all in a better frame of mind when we eventually get back into Goodison Park and watch the team again, in the meantime I understand those who just want us to win the games necessary to get us into European football which will attract the better players to the Blues, but I’ve got mixed feelings about that. Thanks for the little debate Tony.
Graham Mockford
263 Posted 24/04/2021 at 16:11:53
As ever a result in isolation never tells the whole story. It’s what happens over the course of a season.

What have we found out? We are more difficult to beat especially playing the top teams than we have been for a long time. We don’t have the depth of squad currently to consistently challenge.. We don’t have enough creativity both in midfield and up front to despatch the poorer sides.

I accept the criticism that our football has been pretty dull on occasions but the manager has to play the hand he is dealt and largely I think Ancelotti is getting a fair amount out of this squad.

Judge him at the end of next season when as he has indicated he has had the opportunity to overhaul this squad.

John Boon
264 Posted 24/04/2021 at 16:17:45
We were JAMMY and won.
Newcastle scored in the 95TH minute and RS did not win. Great start to the weekend. Sometimes JAMMY is really appreciated, but it does go both ways and we have not had it on our side too often this season.I like classy fast moving football, but I hope we can be "JAMMY" for the next six games
Darren Hind
265 Posted 24/04/2021 at 16:30:47
Ah now guys you are steering this debate into what you consider safe waters.

Mentioning teams like Wigan Blackpool and Bournemouth is not just piss weak...It degrades the debate.

And I don't get this argument that its better to win ugly than lose 5-4 Why does it have to be either/or ? Why is it automatically assumed that we wouldnt have won 2/3-0 if we hadnt gone for what is proving to be a very ordinary Arsenal side ?

Instead of focusing on Minnow clubs who "Gave it a go" Why are we not focusing on the fact that virually every season the prizes go to the teams who go out to win their
games.

I don't wont accept this "look at how much we have improved against the bigger clubs" claim.
Whilst I can take satisfaction (rather than joy) from last nights result and while I felt overwhelming relief that we finally threw the Anfield monkey off our back. I am also acutely aware that the long awaited results against these teams were not achieved by us coming up to the level that had kept them among the top five for all those years.

The clubs vying for CL places all seem hellbent on throwing it away. Time and again we have been presented with Chances to storm the Bastile. We just havent done it..

Rather than praise Carlos results when shutting up shop. should we not be asking where we would have been if we had gone for it.

A team playing spoiling negative tactics will always be open to the question "what might have been ?"

Thomas Richards
266 Posted 24/04/2021 at 16:38:19
"I am also acutely aware that the long awaited results against these teams were not achieved by us coming up to the level that had kept them among the top five for all those years."

Us breaking the repeated cycle of no wins away to top teams is void.
The manner of victory negates the victories gained.

Oliver Molloy
267 Posted 24/04/2021 at 16:50:41
Changed my mind having watched again.
Richarlison knew exactly what he was doing when he hit the ball directly at Leno's inside left leg, never a fluke, he does it all the time in training apparently !
Maradona used to play one two's off defenders shins !
Darren Hind
268 Posted 24/04/2021 at 16:55:07
No surprises in who jumped in because he didnt understand the point - Yet again

Nobody said the victories were null and void. Or that they were not very welcome indeed.

I'm hoping somebody would come on with an intelligent response to the claim that their demise does not signal our "improvement"

Thomas Richards
269 Posted 24/04/2021 at 16:57:42
"Nobody said the victories were null and void."

They did.
Me

Tony Hill
270 Posted 24/04/2021 at 16:58:48
Darren @265, I think that is very fair comment about our lack of boldness this season and where we might have been, but it really is the winning that matters now.

If you're saying that our lack of style makes it less likely that we will get 4th, well that could also be true.

But surely you would be delighted if we had 6 crappy performances and did get 4th?

Then we can worry about the aesthetics. I agree with you, though, that 6 lovely performances and 4th would be preferable - wouldn't everyone think that?

Thomas Richards
271 Posted 24/04/2021 at 17:01:30
Tony H.

He would do his nut if we got 4th.
His opinion of Ancelotti is a point more important than that 😁

Darren Hind
272 Posted 24/04/2021 at 17:05:45
You too make a fair point Tony.

If Carlo lands a CL place. He and his acolytes will be able to point to his achievement and claim the ends justifies the means. They will argue the spoiling tactics did the trick.... but will it work both ways ? Is Carlo in a never ending no lose situation ?

If he fails because he hasnt been bold enough...Will he get the blame ?

David Thomas
273 Posted 24/04/2021 at 17:11:16
Kevin, I’m amazed that you think Holgate has performed better than Godfrey in some games. It just goes to show how people can watch the same games and have such different opinions. I think Godfrey has outshone Holgate in every single game.
Thomas Richards
274 Posted 24/04/2021 at 17:12:37
acolyte

a person assisting a priest in a religious service or procession.

Nomine padre

Kieran Kinsella
275 Posted 24/04/2021 at 17:13:46
The “imagine if we’d gone for it” hypothesis is a nice daydream but meaningless. You could equally say “imagine if we’d been more defensive” in say the first game v Leeds when we were gung ho. I imagine based on that game and the WBA game in August that “if we’d gone for it” more then we’d be in the relegation battle as teams would tear us apart as our slow donkeys watched in horror every time we lost possession in the other teams half. But regardless that’s my hypothetical. More important is what actually happened in the real world. We won, it was laughably comfortable on the defensive side if things: it was even more laughable watching Teta’s weekly “we totally deserved to win. even though all the players played unacceptably. which means I’m a great manager despite the performance and result... just as I was a great corner taker.”
Tony Hill
276 Posted 24/04/2021 at 17:15:25
He would from me, Darren, because this has been a massive opportunity for us and the Gods seem to be on our side. Let's pray they stay there.

I have a feeling that we're going to do it and then we can all rejoice and look forward to the football we both delight in.

Thomas Richards
277 Posted 24/04/2021 at 17:19:21
Darren,
"If Carlo lands a CL place. He and his acolytes will be able to point to his achievement and claim the ends justifies the means."

Genuine question.

If Carlo wins a CL place. What will you point out?

Tony Hill
278 Posted 24/04/2021 at 17:19:59
In nomine Patris, Thomas, if you don't mind. I assume you're one of those New Catholics.
Anthony A Hughes
279 Posted 24/04/2021 at 17:25:31
Who would you like as manager Darren?
Thomas Richards
280 Posted 24/04/2021 at 17:26:05
I have no religion Tony.
Tony Hill
281 Posted 24/04/2021 at 17:27:43
The Blue one perhaps.
Thomas Richards
282 Posted 24/04/2021 at 17:29:09
Of course Tony.
Kieran Kinsella
283 Posted 24/04/2021 at 17:29:38
It wouldn’t be a “claim” it would be a fact. When Carlo arrived we handed him a turd and a can of polish. If he turns that into fourth place then we should ask him to turn the Mersey into wine. If you asked him to put on a Shakespeare play and he put on Hamlet you wouldn’t say “you failed because the Russ Abbott show had more jokes,”
Brent Stephens
284 Posted 24/04/2021 at 17:41:29
“If he fails because he hasnt been bold enough...Will he get the blame ?”

That makes the assumption that he hasn’t been bold enough.

Oliver Molloy
285 Posted 24/04/2021 at 17:45:33
I would be amazed if CL was achievable from our current position.

The reality is our home form ( like many other teams ) has been something awful and this is what has really cost us in the quest for CL.
Coming into the three games against Brighton, Palace and Spurs we still had a small chance, but we blew it in my opinion and if you look at the table now those dropped points especially against the latter two we would still be in there, but not now.

There is no doubt in this crazy season Everton have had opportunities to move up the table and failed to take them.
Ancelotti has made mistakes, but ultimately the players on the pitch have failed to do the business too many times.
I still have faith that Ancelotti will make us better, both in playing style and points tally with the addition of new players next season.
COYB.

Roger Helm
286 Posted 24/04/2021 at 17:58:08
Red Saunders - winning is not everything, it’s the only thing.

When Carlo was appointed, it wasn’t for his reputation for expansive flowing football, it was for his CV as one of the winningest of European coaches. As such, he gets the job done using the tools at his disposal - which were pretty damn blunt when he arrived.

Turning round a football club in the state we were in is a huge job. His first recruitments have been good and we are now harder to beat. Presently our attackers aren’t good enough to win the games we should be winning. But hopefully this is just the start of a long journey and I think we will be a lot different in two years. We need to be patient.

Robert Tressell
287 Posted 24/04/2021 at 17:58:18
Sounds about right Oliver. I had a quick look at our remaining fixtures and guesstimated a total points haul of 58 points for the season. That might see us between 6th and 8th. Disappointing but better than last year with a decent platform for 2021/22 season.
Martin Mason
288 Posted 24/04/2021 at 18:00:25
"Going for it" is a meaningless platitude. If a team with a defence as bad as ours was that miked goals and a midfield as poor in getting the ball forward as ours, going for it could have resulted in the Championship. We have played a compromise game where the midfield has looked after the defence and it has worked quite well. This a decision that The Manager has made and he knows far more about the game than those who'd criticise him here. Some of the best teams ever played exactly the same way and counter attacking from defensive positions is a very skilful form of the game. We don't counter very well but we've started to defend well and that must always precede pretty ball games. Which team in the EPL now plays football that is easy on the eyes? The answer is none, they all have to pass sideways and backwards, press hard, put in miles of running covering and closing down the opposition in other words lots of perspiration. It isn't 1970 or 1987, those days are history
Danny O’Neill
289 Posted 24/04/2021 at 18:01:01
If we get Champions League, we and the manager has over achieved from the pre season target.

Dave Abrahams, you are neither old or miserable. You simply do what all of us do on here, provide very knowledgeable opinion and view points.

Christy Ring
290 Posted 24/04/2021 at 18:02:46
Does Carlo not deserve some credit? He still has more or less an in balanced squad he inherited. He's only brought in four player's, Godfrey, Allan and James played last night and Doucoure is a huge loss in midfield. So give him time to assemble his team.
Tony Hill
291 Posted 24/04/2021 at 18:12:31
Puzzling why people think we haven't got a good shot at 4th. If we win our game in hand, we go 6th ahead of the Shite and Tottenham. On the same basis and if the West Ham v Chelsea game ends in a draw, then we are 1 point behind both of them, and we have to play West Ham.

Everything to go for - we mustn't talk ourselves out of it.

Barry Rathbone
292 Posted 24/04/2021 at 18:14:18
We really should desist from referencing the top 4 there are at least 5 teams in the division who would beat us 6-9 times out of 10 ( City, Utd, Rs, Leicester, Chelsea) and others such as WHU, Spurs and Arse who would give us a run for our money. It's simply not rational.
Danny O’Neill
293 Posted 24/04/2021 at 18:21:40
We absolutely have a shot at 4th Tony.

But I don't think we can suddenly start judging ourselves on Champion's League qualification as that was not the target at the beginning of the season.

Believe, yes, but I'm not changing my goal posts now to fit my argument. Given where we were at the start of the season with the squad available, European football was a reasonable target. Champions League an outside chance if you fancied a punt.

Some may now latch onto that and shift their goal posts to criticise. Maybe they fear we could very well achieve our actual realistic target. And that doesn't fit the narrative.

Tony Hill
294 Posted 24/04/2021 at 18:23:46
Barry, reason has nothing to do with it. This is an extraordinary season and it is sport, not a logic class.

What holds us back is, to borrow a phrase, our poverty of expectation.

Kieran Kinsella
295 Posted 24/04/2021 at 18:25:03
Tony

What’s up with our game in hand? Neither us nor Villa were in Europe and we’ve both been cup free for a while. So there aren’t any variables that complicate scheduling the game. And yet the season ends within a month and it’s never been arranged. Makes me wonder if they’ll drop it on us the day before the City game or something.

Graham Mockford
296 Posted 24/04/2021 at 18:25:15
Barry

Teams that beat us ‘6-9 times out of 10 ’ have beat us 3 times out of 9

Thomas Richards
297 Posted 24/04/2021 at 18:28:08
Kieran,

They will if we are challenging for 4th.
Status quo and all that

Rob Halligan
298 Posted 24/04/2021 at 18:29:21
Leicester wouldn’t beat us 6 - 9 times out of 10. FFS, what a ridiculous statement!
Danny O’Neill
299 Posted 24/04/2021 at 18:30:24
Didn't we take 4 points of Leicester out of 6? Deservedly?
Tony Hill
300 Posted 24/04/2021 at 18:31:28
Kieran @295, don't know, mate, but I doubt that the "Super Six" would still be waiting to find out.
Rob Halligan
301 Posted 24/04/2021 at 18:34:07
We did indeed Danny.
Danny O’Neill
302 Posted 24/04/2021 at 18:34:11
Of course all the matches are important, however the next against Villa and the game in hand in Villa plus the one against West Ham are ones I would target.

Take the points from those and we are looking good. Plus Wolves at home. City on the last day; hopefully by then they are Champions and playing with their slippers on.

Rob Halligan
303 Posted 24/04/2021 at 18:37:11
The only thing I can safely say is that West Ham won’t finish in the top four.
Barry Rathbone
304 Posted 24/04/2021 at 18:53:57
Graham Mockford 296

Who have we played 9 times this season?

Missed those games

Barry Rathbone
305 Posted 24/04/2021 at 18:56:37
Rob Halligan

"Leicester wouldn’t beat us 6 - 9 times out of 10."

Are you being deliberately obtuse or does the concept of a "range" cause your skull to implode?

Soren Moyer
306 Posted 24/04/2021 at 19:06:28
I would say we deserved to win just because they somehow sold us the useless Iwobi!

@Michael Kenrick, Keep up the good work dude. I like to read your game reports as they are honest.

Kieran Kinsella
307 Posted 24/04/2021 at 19:09:58
Barry

Can you elaborate as I’m evidently not understanding your post either. Graham seems to have simply added up the games we played against the teams you mentioned and pointed out that we lost only a third of those games as opposed to 6-9 out of 10. You’re dismissing him as we haven’t played a single team 9 times. Rob argues specifically that we wouldn’t lose to Leicester 6-9 times out of 10. But you also dismiss his point as being obtuse. So if we are not talking about a trend over 10 games against the specific teams you mentioned, and we aren’t talking cumulatively about 10 games against them, then what exactly does your 6-9 represent?

Derek Moore
308 Posted 24/04/2021 at 19:10:26
If you trawl through the archives here I predicted a final league finish between sixth and eighth. So I'm certainly not disappointed or underwhelmed with where we are - we're exactly where I thought we would and where I thought we ought to be.

The hot start and some truly rare away form has me suspecting we could have done a little better than that, but it is what it is. It feels for once as if the steps we've taken this season have been incremental and sustainable, if perhaps slower progress than some would like. For the first time in a while though it feels as if there's a platform, something to build on if the club wants to.
The retention of Brands, and the inevitable sale of Moise Kean should hopefully give us continuity and some funds in the market. The next season really needs to represent further tangible progress on where we are now; it is critical for us as a club if we've any hope of keeping touch with this self appointed elite.
Moyes still gets credit here or there on here for "stabilising" us. It's no exaggeration to say that Ancelotti has very much done the same, and in a much shorter and more successful manner. He certainly deserves our support to take the club to the next level moving forward, and he has mine.

We look like a football team again, albeit a slow and sometimes frustratingly error prone one. That's much more than Silva, Allardyce or the last six months of Koeman managed to achieve. Restoring competence to Everton didn't come cheap but it has returned,. For once it is no longer beyond my imagination to see a future where Everton victories at Anfield, the Emirates and beyond become almost regular occurrences.
We've seen a pandemic,a break away super league, and one of the biggest political supporters of our new stadium charged with corruption - and yet we're still making progress. If the wind ever hits our sails how far could this club go?

The wind must eventually blow our way right? Until it does I actually feel at ease with things right now at Everton. This is an unusual and somewhat odd feeling, but I'm very much enjoying it. As Max Headroom once said, catch the wave.

Barry Rathbone
309 Posted 24/04/2021 at 19:19:15
Kieran 307

It's the age old hypothetical scenario of a team playing 10 games against another with each match ending in a result.

In this case the list is those going for cl places and my prediction on the form shown is the range of losses would be 9 against City with 6 against Leicester.

Aggregating results across all the teams this year entirely misses the point a common illness in this parish

Rob Halligan
310 Posted 24/04/2021 at 19:26:31
So Barry, you think Leicester would beat us 6-9 times out of 10. The last 10 league games against Leicester, we’ve won 6, drawn 1 and lost 3. So are you really being obtuse, or is you brain about to implode. I think I know that Leicester wouldn’t beat us 6-9 times out of 10. Give your fucking head a wobble.
Thomas Richards
311 Posted 24/04/2021 at 19:26:32
Anyone work that out from Barry?
Graham Mockford
312 Posted 24/04/2021 at 19:29:06
Barry 304

Man C. L
Man U LD
RS. DW
Leicester WD
Chelsea. WL

My pleasure

Barry Rathbone
313 Posted 24/04/2021 at 19:32:57
Rob Halligan, Graham Mockford

What part of the hypothesis of 10 games matching this seasons Everton against those mentioned is confusing you?

Thomas Richards
314 Posted 24/04/2021 at 19:33:41
How many points does a hypothesis get you?
Barry Rathbone
315 Posted 24/04/2021 at 19:35:34
Thomas 314

You seem slower of mind than usual have a lie down and try again tomorrow

Thomas Richards
316 Posted 24/04/2021 at 19:36:37
Dont be getting narky with me.
Hard day on the allotment?
Graham Mockford
317 Posted 24/04/2021 at 19:37:39
Barry you said we would lose 6-9 out of 10. You’re range is 60-90%.

This season is 33%

Is that confusing you?

Barry Rathbone
318 Posted 24/04/2021 at 19:39:55
Thomas 316

Oh! I seem to have upset you with truth. so sorry 😄

Oliver Molloy
319 Posted 24/04/2021 at 19:40:08
Robert,
In my jopinion we are well capable of beating all the teams in our remaining fixtures bar our last match against City, but I just can not see us doing so. We are too inconsistent and of course we would need the sides above us to suddenly go into freefall to help us.
Here's my prediction.

Villa ( home and away ) - win and draw
Sheffield United - win
West Ham - lose
Woves - win
Man City - lose

That would give us 10 points making 62...Europa League here we come !

Thomas Richards
320 Posted 24/04/2021 at 19:41:01
Not at all. I'm taking the piss 😂

Answer Grahams question.

Barry Rathbone
322 Posted 24/04/2021 at 19:43:33
Graham 317

I ask again (in the interests of trying to get you to understand the hypothesis) how many of those teams have we played 10 times this season?

Thomas Richards
323 Posted 24/04/2021 at 19:43:49
I knew you would jump in
Graham Mockford
324 Posted 24/04/2021 at 19:45:07
Barry

You have a hypothesis when we play a side 10 times in a season?

Did you not realise they have canned the Super League 😂

Thomas Richards
325 Posted 24/04/2021 at 19:46:34
😁😁
Rob Halligan
326 Posted 24/04/2021 at 19:46:57
Does anybody understand WTF Barry is on about, because I don’t? I didn’t know that points (or victories) were awarded for hypothesis, but there you go.
Brent Stephens
327 Posted 24/04/2021 at 19:49:24
Barry #292 - was that a prediction ("would beat us" suggests it was)?

If so, what previous performances is that prediction based on? and why that selection of past performances?

Kieran Kinsella
328 Posted 24/04/2021 at 19:49:31
“Get paid” I didn’t know there was money to be made in the realm of easily disproved hypotheses. Sign me up!
Barry Rathbone
329 Posted 24/04/2021 at 19:49:45
Graham 324

At last!!

Thank god the penny dropped - I was losing the will to live.

Just ask a responsible adult the next time you have difficulty with a common hypothesis which obviously rules out Rob and Thomas - oh get in.

Thomas Richards
330 Posted 24/04/2021 at 19:49:54
If we win six hypothesis do we qualify for CL?
Colin Glassar
331 Posted 24/04/2021 at 19:51:11
Great post Degsy 308. I sometimes lose patience with Carlo but once the passions ebb it’s obvious that things are changing, slowly, for the better. ICIT.
David Greenwood
332 Posted 24/04/2021 at 19:52:21
Are the points awarded for a hypothesis the same as the points awarded for a performance?
Rob Halligan
333 Posted 24/04/2021 at 19:52:31
Thomas, start booking your European aways now. We’re going to win the last six games and qualify for the champions league. 😀😀😀
Thomas Richards
334 Posted 24/04/2021 at 19:53:55
You are getting angry Barry.
Relax
Mike Gaynes
335 Posted 24/04/2021 at 19:54:42
Yes, David.

Hypothetically.

Brent Stephens
336 Posted 24/04/2021 at 19:55:48
Can anybody play this hypothetical game? Hypothetically speaking?
Brent Stephens
337 Posted 24/04/2021 at 19:56:05
And can we all get paid?
David Greenwood
338 Posted 24/04/2021 at 19:56:23
Cheers Mike, that’s cleared that up.
Thomas Richards
339 Posted 24/04/2021 at 19:57:01
Hypothetically Rob.

Travel ban still on

Brent Stephens
340 Posted 24/04/2021 at 19:57:08
Or is the payment only hypothetical?
Thomas Richards
341 Posted 24/04/2021 at 20:00:11
Driving home after a hard day at work, a man gets pulled over by a cop. His patience is wearing thin.
"Tell me, officer: would it be a crime for me to insult you? Hypothetically speaking, of course - I think the police are wonderful - but in theory, could you arrest me if I said you were a cunt?"

"Yes sir. That would count as disorderly conduct."

"What about if I were just to think it?"

"No sir. You can think whatever you like."

"In that case, I think you're a cunt."

Graham Mockford
342 Posted 24/04/2021 at 20:01:06
Barry

Ok I'll go with your hypothesis. Let's assume we play the five sides you say 10 times in a season, most importantly for this discussion this season.

What evidence do we have to support your 60-90% losing range.

Well after 9 out of 60 games we have 33%.

Of course that proves nothing because there would be 51 games to go and it could go either way.

But of course in the real world we play each team twice and this season you are dead wrong.

Rob Halligan
343 Posted 24/04/2021 at 20:05:20
This is all just shite. Graham, have you suddenly morphed into Jonathan Tasker?

That’s no offence against you Graham, by the way.

Thomas Richards
345 Posted 24/04/2021 at 20:09:36
Appreciation from one fisherman to another.
Hes better at it than you though Darren😁
Brent Stephens
346 Posted 24/04/2021 at 20:12:33
Are you able to explain what Barry meant at #292, Darren?
Rob Halligan
347 Posted 24/04/2021 at 20:13:03
Shame on us all Thomas. Barry was only taking the piss and we all fell for it!
Thomas Richards
348 Posted 24/04/2021 at 20:14:17
I'm embarrassed at being duped so easily Rob
David Greenwood
349 Posted 24/04/2021 at 20:15:37
It was only a hypothetical duping Thomas so it doesn’t count.
Barry Rathbone
350 Posted 24/04/2021 at 20:15:53
Graham 342

That's very nearly a good point.

The obvious answer is to do what most do and look at each team over the season against ALL opposition and get a comprehensive gauge to eradicate anomalies.

I don't think anyone can argue with the league table and all mentioned bar the RS are above us. Leicester seem to be the team that has caused such angst but not only are they above us they are cup finalists and play great togger.

As mentioned the RS are the exception that proves the rule and anyone thinking we would come out top in a 10 game series against them has quite severe issues

Thomas Richards
351 Posted 24/04/2021 at 20:17:36
Thank goodness for that David.
Feel a lot better now.

The two wind up chaps are hopeless to be honest.

Rob Halligan
352 Posted 24/04/2021 at 20:18:49
Fact . 6 times out of 10, Everton have beaten Leicester.

Hypothesis 6 - 9 times out of 10, Leicester have beaten Everton.

Barry Rathbone
353 Posted 24/04/2021 at 20:19:11
Darren

I did but I'm thinking of doing a part ex for a fishing trawler they're leaping in and banging their own heads in an effort to kill themselves, Ooo they'll kick off now

Thomas Richards
354 Posted 24/04/2021 at 20:21:10
Translated.

You cant post against me because I said you will kick off and I will be proved right

As I said. Hopeless

John Skelly
355 Posted 24/04/2021 at 20:22:02
Looking like Chelsea are slipping away from us so Rob hold on to your holiday money, it's a shame we lost so many home points otherwise I would have been glad to meet you at some European destination 😜
Brent Stephens
356 Posted 24/04/2021 at 20:23:24
Barry - "I did but I'm thinking of doing a part ex for a fishing trawler".

So was #292 just a wind up and not serious, Barry?! Just a load of bollocks? But something that you're still trying to defend?!

Darren to the rescue to explain it all!

Thomas Richards
357 Posted 24/04/2021 at 20:24:44
Tumbleweed
Barry Rathbone
358 Posted 24/04/2021 at 20:25:08
Thomas

You just proved your translation wrong

Go to bed 😄

Kieran Kinsella
359 Posted 24/04/2021 at 20:25:10
Is Casho mates with Barry too?
Thomas Richards
360 Posted 24/04/2021 at 20:25:34
Only if you tuck me in
Thomas Richards
361 Posted 24/04/2021 at 20:27:36
Hypothetically speaking, of course.
Graham Mockford
362 Posted 24/04/2021 at 20:27:53
Barry,

But we weren't talking about all opposition. You specifically mentioned five sides. Your hypothesis is flawed. The reason they are above us is not our performances against the better sides but our inability to beat inferior sides at home.

Leicester btw we beat away easily and drew with at home. But they are definitely a more attractive side.

I do agree currently we wouldn't come out in top over a 10-game series against the RS but I would argue it would look better than the last 10.

Rob Halligan
363 Posted 24/04/2021 at 20:28:52
Beware the hypothetical sandman, Thomas!
Barry Rathbone
364 Posted 24/04/2021 at 20:29:18
Brent 356,

If you had read the posts – 350 in particular – you would have saved yourself asking such a bizarre set of questions. Or are you "codding"?

This is so easy.

Thomas Richards
366 Posted 24/04/2021 at 20:30:02
Fuck me.

Barry looks like he is contemplating taking my request up.

Brent Stephens
367 Posted 24/04/2021 at 20:30:09
Ah, so no answer came the stern reply. He's bottled out.
Thomas Richards
368 Posted 24/04/2021 at 20:30:49
Hic
Kieran Kinsella
369 Posted 24/04/2021 at 20:32:40
Graham

I disagree. The RS are floundering. If we played them 10 times now I’d say we’d win at least six on the Rathbone scale.

Rob Halligan
370 Posted 24/04/2021 at 20:34:11
Kieran, brilliant. I nearly choked on me eighth can of San Miguel!
Barry Rathbone
371 Posted 24/04/2021 at 20:34:31
Graham 362

You asked what the criteria was for my claim you wanted to talk only about our results against clubs cited which is flawed because, if that was the be-all and end-all, we would be above Leicester – and you'll never guess what??

Thomas Richards
372 Posted 24/04/2021 at 20:36:09
I'm still guessing if you are stepping into the boudoir to fluff my pillows.
Graham Mockford
373 Posted 24/04/2021 at 20:39:03
Barry

Moving the goalposts now. Leicester have been a better side than us this year, no doubt. But it doesn’t alter the fact the reason we are not above them is our inability to beat inferior sides at Goodison.

Your original point was that five sides were going to beat us ‘60-90%’ That’s just not true this season

Barry Rathbone
374 Posted 24/04/2021 at 20:39:14
Thomas,

Ha! You seem to be continually guessing about most things in life – although maybe you're just fantasising again...

Thomas Richards
375 Posted 24/04/2021 at 20:39:56
😠😠

Collared

Darren Hind
376 Posted 24/04/2021 at 20:43:25
Months ago
Barry Rathbone
377 Posted 24/04/2021 at 20:43:52
Graham,

" Leicester have been a better side than us this season, no doubt."

And the truth shall set you free.

Now is it too much of a stretch to imagine Leicester having the upper hand in a 10-game series or would you like to backtrack in case your buddies think you have just blown them out of the water?

Thomas Richards
378 Posted 24/04/2021 at 20:44:32
Darren!!

That wasn't you back in January, was it?

Rob Halligan
379 Posted 24/04/2021 at 20:44:46
John # 355. All is not lost!
Graham Mockford
381 Posted 24/04/2021 at 20:49:16
Oh Barry...

Evidential proof ain't your bag. Two games, one win, one draw. So no, they won't beat us 60-90% of the time.

John Armstrong
382 Posted 24/04/2021 at 20:49:33
Barry, you are extrapolating. That is easier to do with extreme examples; e.g. 'this season's' Man City playing 'this season's' Sheff Utd 100 times, and predicting the what the win/loss ratios might be. But when the example is less extreme, such as Everton v Leicester, the outcome of such a thought experiment is less clear. Your range of 60 - 90% does't leave that much possibility of draws, nor Everton victories.

Based on the current league positions, style of football of each team, PLUS this season's results, I would give a lower range (for Leicester wins), whilst acknowledging that they currently play a better brand of football than us.

But that is just my opinion. I'm not certain it qualifies as a hypothesis, except perhaps in the very loosest sense, and I would be careful of labelling others as 'obtuse' in order to try and make your point.

Graham Mockford
383 Posted 24/04/2021 at 20:51:49
John 382.

The truth.

Barry Rathbone
385 Posted 24/04/2021 at 20:52:59
Graham

You still don't grasp how a "hypothesis" garnered from a full season's evidence works. But at least you concede the overarching point that they are better than us so only 3 more teams to add for Champions League places – care to name them?

Barry Rathbone
386 Posted 24/04/2021 at 20:55:40
John 452

"Barry, you are extrapolating"

And?? That's all that's available till the season ends.

Wakey wakey

Barry Hesketh
387 Posted 24/04/2021 at 20:57:49
Everton needs neither of the London clubs to reach any of the European finals and for Chelsea to drop a few points between now and the end of the season, whilst simultaneously Everton win their last six games giving us a total of 70 points...

Damn it! I think the other Barry's hypothesis has greater merit (sigh!)

John Skelly
388 Posted 24/04/2021 at 20:59:18
What about in the off-chance we do make it to the Champions League, can we as ToffeeWebers agree to meet en masse at one of the games – away finance's individually permitting?
Graham Mockford
389 Posted 24/04/2021 at 20:59:39
Barry

You are in proper retreat mode. I've never argued we could get a Champions League place. There are imo six sides better than us this season.

But of course we get back to what the discussion was. You claimed, a hypothesis you liked to call it, that five sides would beat us 60-90% of the time. I say that is bollocks based on this season's results. Because we have been better against the better sides as opposed to the poorer sides this season.

Nothing more, nothing less.

Kieran Kinsella
390 Posted 24/04/2021 at 21:01:08
Barry (Rathbone)

It seems you’re ultimate point is that we won’t finish in the top four. But rather than coming up with your controversial hypothesis to make your case, you could have just used the actual league table as evidence.

Brent Stephens
391 Posted 24/04/2021 at 21:04:01
#292 "...there are at least 5 teams in the division who would beat us 6-9 times out of 10 ( City, Utd, Rs, Leicester, Chelsea). "

#322 "I ask again (in the interests of trying to get you to understand the hypothesis) how many of those teams have we played 10 times this season?"

So you've moved from what seemed to be a certain statement to a hypothesis.

Stan Schofield
392 Posted 24/04/2021 at 21:11:40
What amuses me about this debate surrounding Leicester, is the assertion made by some that Leicester are somehow better than us.

Leicester get a lot of comment because they won the league a few years ago, when the usual dominating clubs were having a shit season. Apart from that league win, they’ve been midtable, on a par with us. And when we’ve played them, the spoils have been broadly equal, tilted slightly towards us.

So really, it’s difficult to grap why some on here seem to get excited about them. If you’re gonna get excited about them, logically you should also get excited about us. But I suppose, to some, the grass is always greener.......

Leicester are having a relatively good season this season, as are we. But that’s as far as it goes. Beyond that, why the fuck would anyone get excited about them, unless you are from Leicester and the novelty of being in the Premier League is yet to wear off?

Robert Tressell
393 Posted 24/04/2021 at 21:12:20
Oliver @ 319. I'm not sure how I got to 58 points from our remaining fixtures. We should do a bit better than that. Maybe 60 points. Your predicted 62 points is probably top end. Chelsea and Leicester are only 4 and 3 points off that now so it puts our chances into context.
Barry Rathbone
394 Posted 24/04/2021 at 21:13:29
Graham @389,

"I've never argued we could get a Champions League place."

I never said you did.

But well done for admitting such nonsense was "off discussion"; furthermore, it is your prerogative to ignore the bigger picture of league positions etc and warm yourself with the results of a couple of games. But it does nothing to address the 10-game hypothesis – not that it matters because you concede there are 6 teams better than us.

And as my point was Top 4 talk was delusional, I really don't know why you and your pals have got so irked.

Rob Halligan
395 Posted 24/04/2021 at 21:13:33
Graham, let it go.

Arsenal 6/6 points.
Spurs 4/6 points.
Liverpool 4/6 points.
Leicester 4/6 points.
Chelsea 3/6 points.
Man Utd 1/6 points, but a creditable draw away from home.

Still West Ham and Man City to play, but I’d fancy us to beat West Ham. Nobody, but nobody could fancy themselves to beat Man City, but it all depends on the day, just as Leeds found to their utmost astonishment! You’d expect Man City to beat any team 60 - 90% of the time.

Barry Rathbone
396 Posted 24/04/2021 at 21:15:43
Kieran

The names of the clubs mentioned (bar the rs) might have been a clue - sorry it was too difficult for you

Barry Rathbone
397 Posted 24/04/2021 at 21:19:30
Brent

"So you've moved from what seemed to be a certain statement to a hypothesis."

You mean like in a hypothesis awaiting testing?

You are such a befuddled individual

Graham Mockford
398 Posted 24/04/2021 at 21:19:52
Barry

Fuck me there’s deflection and there’s deflection mate.

Forget all the noise you’ve created. We were discussing one point.

We would lose to five sides 60-90% of the time.

This seasons results don’t bear you out.

That’s all there is I’m afraid.

Brent Stephens
399 Posted 24/04/2021 at 21:23:55
Barry #397 "You mean like in a hypothesis awaiting testing?"

EXACTLY! A hypothesis is not a statement of certainty - you set it up to be tested; you don't necessarily believe in it. Unlike your statement of certainty in #292

You've got it at last!

Thomas Richards
400 Posted 24/04/2021 at 21:25:58
Hallelujah
Geoff Lambert
401 Posted 24/04/2021 at 21:30:24
Can someone press the reset button please as 60-90% of the time my head hurts
Rob Halligan
402 Posted 24/04/2021 at 21:31:30
“Praise the Lord”!

Whatever we’re praising the lord for? Hic, Hic!

Barry Rathbone
403 Posted 24/04/2021 at 21:34:10
Graham

As I said if you want to ignore league positions, style of play etc to draw a conclusion about a hypothetical 10 game series that's up to you.

Sure, you have hung yourself with your own petard by admitting Leicester are better than us meaning in a 10 game series they would win the majority (min 6) but that's no reason to get annoyed. Just admit you're wrong - no biggie

Thomas Richards
404 Posted 24/04/2021 at 21:35:36
Rob, its for the penny dropping with Barry.
Cheers
Barry Rathbone
405 Posted 24/04/2021 at 21:36:16
Brent

I called it a hypothesis and you used the word "seemed" to assert definitive fact - you seem so confused.

Tony Hill
406 Posted 24/04/2021 at 21:39:07
Science, you know.
Brent Stephens
407 Posted 24/04/2021 at 21:40:17
Barry you shifted from a statement of certainty to a hypothesis. Bang to rights!
John Skelly
408 Posted 24/04/2021 at 21:42:46
Open another one Rob the math's is also doing my head in, looking like I will have to open my last Guinness to unwind.
Barry Hesketh
409 Posted 24/04/2021 at 21:43:18
European Super League: Who would win its hypothetical first season?

Hypothetical League

This BBC report was from November 2018, about the time that covert discussions have been held - all the huff and puff of the fans and institutions would seem to be wasting their energy - as this is happening - I would guess before Everton manage to be in a position to beat those sides above them 6-9 times out of 10. Mind you I think we have beaten Leicester about 6 times out of the last 10 Premier League meetings.

Graham Mockford
410 Posted 24/04/2021 at 21:44:39
Barry

This is really boring, because I said Leicester are a better side than us this season doesn’t mean they win 60% of the games.

You realise there are three outcomes to a game? They have won 0% this season.

Let’s just face it you’re hypothesis is just not supported by any evidence

Barry Rathbone
411 Posted 24/04/2021 at 21:44:51
Brent

A hypothesis cannot become "certain" till tested what you have done is ignore my factual descriptor and substituted your own emotive and rather confused mumblings, This is known as "projection" (nothing to do with the cinema - I add this because of your confusion issues)

Barry Rathbone
412 Posted 24/04/2021 at 21:46:34
Graham

it is and I've explained it to you several times you just choose to ignore it

Rob Halligan
413 Posted 24/04/2021 at 21:46:34
Go for it John. I’ve one more can of San Miguel in the fridge. Might just go for it, but hypothetically............... ah fuck it!
Brent Stephens
415 Posted 24/04/2021 at 21:47:23
Barry #292 "...there are at least 5 teams in the division who would beat us 6-9 times out of 10 ( City, Utd, Rs, Leicester, Chelsea)."

Barry #322 "I ask again (in the interests of trying to get you to understand the hypothesis) how many of those teams have we played 10 times this season?"

You really don't get it, do you!

Rob Halligan
416 Posted 24/04/2021 at 21:50:53
Just watching Sheffield Utd, or is it Stoke or Sunderland, don't really know, but this team in red and white stripes won at Old Trafford this season, so does that mean that 50% of the time this team in red and white stripes would beat Man Utd?
Barry Rathbone
418 Posted 24/04/2021 at 21:52:19
Brent

Encouraging to see you drop your fact vs hypothesis nonsense but posting 2 excellent quotes from me does nothing to address your relentless appearance as a very befuddled individual.

I do hope you're ok

Barry Rathbone
419 Posted 24/04/2021 at 21:54:26
Rob 416

Try looking at the league table and take an educated view of performances over the season to date.

Oops! did I use the word "educated" to you?

Stan Schofield
420 Posted 24/04/2021 at 21:55:17
A hypothesis is just a fancy name for a guess, used by college boys raised on fancy book-learnin’. Aint got much use for em maself!
Brent Stephens
423 Posted 24/04/2021 at 21:56:20
I've dropped nothing, Barry.

You're post #292 your statement of certainty.

Your post #322 you start to wobble - that's only a hypothesis.

There for all to see!!

Barry Hesketh
427 Posted 24/04/2021 at 22:00:35
Ultimately, what is the point of this hypothetical clap-trap?

Everton are not as good over a season as those sides currently above us? Everton are better than those teams below them?

Weirdly Everton's results against the teams above us have probably helped us to stave off being in a relegation dogfight, whilst the results against the teams below us have prevented us from cementing a place in the Champions League.

Hypothetically, I've got a headache and I'm going to take a placebo Anadin to nullify it.

Barry Rathbone
428 Posted 24/04/2021 at 22:01:19
Brent

You saying "certainty" does not negate the fact I specifically identified the idea as a hypothesis - sorry, about your continued confusion

Stan Schofield
430 Posted 24/04/2021 at 22:08:15
Barry@424: Is that a hypothesis?
Brent Stephens
432 Posted 24/04/2021 at 22:09:45
Barry - at #292 you stated it as a certainty not a hypothesis.

Then at #322 you shifted to hypothesis (a guess, as Stan says).

Which of that is not true?

John Armstrong
433 Posted 24/04/2021 at 22:13:54
Barry, can you test your hypothesis? Or are you using the word in a looser, more informal sense?

I see you are still trying to belittle others:

Oops! did I use the word "educated" to you?

It's not a good look.

Barry Rathbone
434 Posted 24/04/2021 at 22:16:49
Brent

The first was a hypothetical statement can you guess why hypothetical is important in this context?

Concentrate really hard and let's see if we can sort your confusion out once and for all - you can do this, champ

Brent Stephens
444 Posted 24/04/2021 at 22:27:50
Barry #434 "The first was a hypothetical statement"

You maintain that first post at #292 was a hypothetical statement?! Here it is for all to see:
"...there are at least 5 teams in the division who would beat us 6-9 times out of 10 ( City, Utd, Rs, Leicester, Chelsea)..."

Barry Rathbone
460 Posted 24/04/2021 at 22:44:39
Brent,

"...there are at least 5 teams in the division who would DEFINITELY beat us 6-9 times out of 10 ( City, Utd, Rs, Leicester, Chelsea)..."

Oops! the difference between a definitive and hypothetical statement right there<./p>

Casting pearls before swine.

Laurie Hartley
470 Posted 25/04/2021 at 02:24:11
Tony Abrahams, could you sing your song please. ;)
Steve Brown
471 Posted 25/04/2021 at 03:25:58
Chelsea's last four games are:

Man City,
Arsenal,
Leicester City
Aston Villa

So you never know. We can but dream.
Kieran Kinsella
472 Posted 25/04/2021 at 03:37:58
Steve @471,

Didn't we win six in a row during Moyes's first full season? We also started this season with 7 wins in a row in all competitions, I think? So we could finish how we started.

Prior to today, we'd had a poor run: 6 or 7 on the bounce isn't totally outrageous? For my own sanity, I won't get my hopes up but, as you say, we can dream... right?

Steve Brown
473 Posted 25/04/2021 at 04:29:18
Spot on, Kieran. I am an optimist so I think we can do it!
David Cash
474 Posted 25/04/2021 at 13:35:36
Let me get this right, Darren.

What you're saying is that you will happily take the points, but you find the performance unacceptable?

Lol. You are fucking priceless, lad.

Brian Wilkinson
475 Posted 25/04/2021 at 14:33:29
Just an update on the Top 4:

Should Chelsea finish outside the Top 4, but win the Champions League, then just the Top 3 and Chelsea will enter the Champions League.

5th team will enter the Europa League, then we have the dreaded teams finishing 6th and 7th, entering the new competition, which features 32 teams playing in group stages. When they get down to the last 16, they will then face teams that finished 3rd in the Europa League group stages.

I am sure I also read some teams losing in the Champions League qualifiers either drop into this as well or could be the Europa League.

Either way, the new competition sounds even worse than the Europa League, with all games having a 3:30 pm kick-off on a Thursday.

Matthew Williams
477 Posted 25/04/2021 at 14:52:22
No complaints from me, folks, it's all about getting the points from the remaining games of the season. We've at least given it a go in the last couple of games... which, for me, is very pleasing. We, I hope, can play a more expansive type of game next season when we once again will be involved in a fair few European nights...

Onwards Blues.

Darren Hind
479 Posted 25/04/2021 at 15:30:32
Casho

Lyndon has a tread going that has been taken over by Philistines who don't seem to think performances count.

You'll be far more at home there.

Let's see how much it counts when the faithful return to the Old Lady, when the boos are ringing around the place, You'll still be telling everyone it's not as bad as it looks.

Alan J Thompson
480 Posted 25/04/2021 at 15:52:00
Brian (#475);

What happens if Man Utd win the Europa League or does that only get you entry if you don't otherwise qualify for the Champions League?

So two teams could qualify by being winners of each of the competitions but won't if they finish in the Top 4. Aawww, this is that co-efficient thingy, isn't it? Anyone like to guess who will finish 5th and not get in and who will finish 5th and qualify?

"It's just one of them songs you hear now & then..."

Martin Mason
481 Posted 25/04/2021 at 15:52:33
I know it's really difficult for you to understand, Darren, but where we are now isn't where we want to be or where we undoubtedly will be – only just a point on the road. The club is dependent on Premier League money and that increases with position in the league. Only an idiot would say that at this point that cosmetic performance metrics are more important than results.

As it happens, the Everton games that I've watched have all seen Everton playing very well at times. Remember also that what you say is your very biased opinion, that's all... it isn't fact. Everton have to compromise at this stage between the game that resides in your imagination and the real game where results are everything. If you don't like what you see then stop watching.

Brian Wilkinson
482 Posted 25/04/2021 at 16:16:42
Hi Alan,

If Man Utd win the Europa League and finish in the Top 4, they will go straight into the Champions League group stage, along with the other 3 English teams finishing in the Top 4.

If they fail to finish in the Top 4 but win the Europa League, they will then go into the Champions League qualifiers.

It gets easier to work out, if Chelsea do not win the Champions League, with the possibility of Chelsea not getting a Top 4 spot.

Should Liverpool nick 4th spot and Chelsea win the Champions League but finish 5th, it will be interesting to see if our neighbours, manage to get the rules changed again to allow them in the Champioms League.

Barry Hesketh
483 Posted 25/04/2021 at 16:17:21
I tend to lean towards Darren's viewpoint: we may well achieve a European spot at the end of the season, and of course, at this particular time of the season, it's all about results... but, as Darren has argued elsewhere, who's to say that we couldn't have ended up with the same or a better points total playing with a bit more adventure?

If we end up in 8th place or miss out on a European spot due to the European coefficient process etc, then it will have all been for nought and we will not have taken note of the old maxim: "It is better to travel hopefully than to arrive."

As Darren alludes to, a large part of the Goodison gallery will be most unforgiving if the lack of adventure and poor home results continue when the gates open next season.

I think, due to the circumstances of Covid and a few injuries at crucial times, Carlo will get a pass, whatever happens in the remainder of this season. But, from August onwards, given that life will slowly return to some form of normality, the fans will not be slow in giving their verdicts if the fayre on offer is a repetition of most of what we've seen this last 9 months.

Martin Mason
484 Posted 25/04/2021 at 17:28:58
Barry @483,

Who's to say that we "would" have ended up with the same or a better points total playing with a bit more adventure? Do you feel that the Everton coaching staff have some Idea of what they are doing, perhaps even better than us fans?

Danny O’Neill
485 Posted 25/04/2021 at 17:36:34
Depends on the players you have. Play to the strengths you have at your disposal.

I think everyone wants to see more adventure. That's not in question.

But to do so when you have defenders such as Michael Keane ends up being suicidal. So you play to their strength. Which for a lot of this squad remains sitting deep for a lot of matches. I'm not picking on Keane, but he's improved because that suits him. Play more adventurous and both he and the team get exposed and exploited.

Despite the good additions last year, we still need to overhaul this squad before we can be more adventurous on a consistent basis rather than just seeing glimpses of it when the right players are fit.

Brian Wilkinson
486 Posted 25/04/2021 at 17:54:44
What is to say that Everton would have won those games with attacking more? We attacked both Palace and Spurs, yet we came away with a point in both games.

When you look and see that only Man Utd out of the elite have taken more than three points from Everton, with only Man City to come, I would say Everton have made progress, being the next team, behind Man City, to win most away games.

It is easy to have a go at our style of play, but results are what matters now, until the end of the season.

We can all blame injuries as an excuse but, since the Goodison derby, when we were on a run of 7 games unbeaten, that's when the team started to get disrupted: we had the Richarlison ban, then we had both Coleman and Digne out at the same time, with Mina in and out of the team, then we had Allan out, James, followed by Pickford and Olsen, then Doucouré, followed by Calvert-Lewin.

Others have been out injured but the fact is, we have never had our strongest 11 since Day 7 of the Premier League; the squad is simply not good enough but we have to go with what we have at the moment, grinding out results.

We need luck on the injury front next season, and some more additions.

It is not an excuse to bring injuries into the fold, but it does not help when players coming in are nowhere near the standard of those out.

We would all love Everton to play free-flowing football; hopefully, we might get to see that next season.

Like I have said before about Carlo, there is only so much he can do with the current squad of players we have.

People think Carlo can get this current squad as world beaters but it will take a few more transfer windows before we can mount a challenge and play the style of football we all want.

After all, you put Lewis Hamilton in a Grand Prix driving a Lada and, for all Hamilton's skill and knowledge, he will not win a Grand Prix if he does not have the tools to hand.

Rob Halligan
487 Posted 25/04/2021 at 18:01:48
And who's to say that, had we been a bit more adventurous and attacked teams a bit more, that we wouldn't have been turned over? We could well have fewer points than what we've got now.
Danny O’Neill
488 Posted 25/04/2021 at 18:13:30
I think that's the point Rob. We probably realised early on in the season that yes, we can play like that, but in doing so we concede a lot too.

With this squad, it wasn't sustainable, especially once injuries set in.

No excuses, just realities. This season we have a very good first 11 - 14, but a thin squad. We've had to adapt and adjust. Most important, stay in the fight. And we still are.

Rob Halligan
489 Posted 25/04/2021 at 18:22:05
Spot on Danny!!
Barry Hesketh
490 Posted 25/04/2021 at 18:44:06
Hmmm, despite all the criticisms of David Moyes during his time at Goodison, it seems that more people than I realised are willing to watch 'safety first' football so long as it gets a positive result more often than not. I also don't believe that those who argue this current team could play more expansively than it has, expected this team to play like Brazil or Everton circa 1970.

I haven't suggested that Carlo doesn't know what he is doing and would never suggest that I knew better than a professional but, speaking purely from a spectator's point of view, I'd like to see a bit more verve going forward and a few more chances created.

I will concede that Carlo does appear to be making us more of a team overall which is something we haven't been since David Moyes left but we are some way short of being a good side, despite being well-placed in the table.

Danny O’Neill
491 Posted 25/04/2021 at 18:49:23
I drew parallels either here or on another thread Barry.

Condensed timescale, as Carlo will not get or through choice be here for 11 years.

The parallels and my take on the Moyes years. We understood and tolerated safety first football in the early years as it is what was needed whilst the shite squad inherited was sorted out.

The frustration grew as we improved the calibre of player and squad yet continued to play safety first and talk down our chances.

If in 12 to 18 months time we are still playing safety first with an improved team / squad, then yes, the manager gets both barrels. But right now I believe he is still trying to sort out a shit show that he inherited.

Like I say, parallels, just on a different time scale.

Brian Wilkinson
492 Posted 25/04/2021 at 19:18:41
Agree Danny.
Derek Taylor
493 Posted 25/04/2021 at 19:57:31
All in all, Carlo has done little to improve the fortunes of Everton. We see no improvement in the players he inherited and only occasional sight of the expected ability of the ridiculously costly signings he has been responsible for.

Moreover his team selections seem to be 'out of the hat' with no two games unchanged even after a win. And his substitutions are a joke in that they are usually the wrong call and the youngsters he puts on the bench know they have absolutely no chance of getting even the last few minutes..

To me he has proved to be another flop chosen by the moneybags owners based on what he achieved donkeys years ago. Nonetheless, he will be here for years, still promising but not delivering. Money down the drain !

Bobby Mallon
494 Posted 25/04/2021 at 20:04:08
Darren 479: those that boo at Goodison should be ashamed of themselves.
Danny Baily
495 Posted 25/04/2021 at 20:36:52
Derek 493, it's late April and we still have something positive to play for. This hasn't happened for the best part of a decade. Throw in two quarter-final appearances and we can chalk this season off as a relative success. That's primarily down to Carlo. Job well done, I'd say.
Brendan McLaughlin
496 Posted 25/04/2021 at 20:40:44
Aye Derek #493
If only we had gone for Arteta!
Darren Hind
497 Posted 25/04/2021 at 21:05:50
If only we had stuck with the big fella we'd be home and hosed by now, Playing football the positive way
Bill Gienapp
498 Posted 25/04/2021 at 21:56:33
Derek (493) - if 60-million combined for Allan, Doucoure, James and Godfrey (all of whom have had a clear and positive impact on the squad) constitutes "ridiculously expensive" signings, I'm not sure what sort of business you think we should be doing.
Ian Horan
499 Posted 25/04/2021 at 22:36:45
Success or failure??? The sesson facts 2 domestic cups got beat in the quarter finals to the top 2 teams in the division. It took past the 80th minute before we conceded a goal. End of April still have something to play for!!!!, football quality best described as pragmatic. Summer 20 recruitment 60 million on three international quality players and a 22 year old future club captain.. dependant on what your own personal agenda will contribute to how you view success?. My view is its not been a entertaining season, however it is the best season we have had for a decade.. but I am sure others will now attack my views as pro Ancelotti, no I am a pragmatic Evertonian who lives in hope.
Martin Mason
500 Posted 26/04/2021 at 08:57:58
Bobby@494 They are parasites who drag the club down.
Rob Halligan
501 Posted 26/04/2021 at 09:05:40
Ian # 499, I said something similar on the premier league week 33 thread, although it might have been better placed on here (or any thread really!). Agree fully with everything you say.
Laurie Hartley
502 Posted 26/04/2021 at 09:52:40
Derek # 493 - someone - (I think James Flynn’s) posted on another thread something along these lines:-

Beat Liverpool away (first time for 12 years)
Beat Spurs away (first time in 22 years)
Beat Arsenal away (first time in 26 years)

Those three bogies put to bed in one season - by non other than Carlo with a large number of the players he inherited and the help of what I consider the value for money players he was responsible for bringing in.

According to the way I think that is a significant improvement on Smith, Moyes, Martinez, Koeman, Silva and Sam.

George Carroll
503 Posted 26/04/2021 at 11:34:06
Laurie at 502,

I couldn't agree more, also Rob and Martin. Let's get together as Blues and stop the moaning.

Martin Mason
504 Posted 26/04/2021 at 13:51:49
Darren @497,

Incorrect, in your opinion we would have been. I was for him being given the position but what may have happened if he had is pure conjecture.

Derek Taylor
505 Posted 26/04/2021 at 18:26:18
I should have remembered – we are always a great team with a great manager in the week after we win!
Dale Self
506 Posted 26/04/2021 at 18:32:39
And remember, we deserve every undeserved result we get.
Paul Markey
507 Posted 26/04/2021 at 22:00:47
Mushroom @497 didn’t know you where a fan of big Sham Allardyce.
Brent Stephens
508 Posted 26/04/2021 at 22:16:04
“Mushroom”!!!
Laurie Hartley
509 Posted 26/04/2021 at 22:48:09
Paul # 507 - I reckon your out of order with that comment.
Don Alexander
510 Posted 27/04/2021 at 01:46:57
Whilst our Dazza continually berates our manager, whilst at the same time berating those above him who've delivered to Carlo the difficulties/players he has to manage throughout their lucrative contracts (!), I'm relieved to read, well above in his own post, that Dazza at last recognises that he himself is "disturbed".

That's the first step to recovery Dazza! Well done, and hopefully we'll soon be able to only read your observations on the club rather than the legions of fans you take exception to on account of your perception of their opinion.

Kieran Kinsella
511 Posted 27/04/2021 at 02:47:49
Paul 507

Lol I was thinking the same thing

Darren Hind
512 Posted 27/04/2021 at 03:41:43
Ill informed @507

While many of the people who are happy clapping Carlo's anti football were calling for Fat sam (we can see you sneaking out). I was calling long and hard for Unsworth to be kept on instead. I would rather the ta lady got in before Sam

Years later Carlo sycophants like Kinsella. Alexander Still, to this day, come back and remind me that I wanted Unsworth as if the alternative was a better choice ??

Now you tell me I'm a fan of Big Sam ?

What joy...In their relentless attempts to appologise for Carlo's anti football.. The happy clappers have finally chased themselves up their own arses.

The lengths people will go to to defend this piss taking excuse fr football never ceases to amaze me. We now have people calling the knowledgeable Goodison crowd "Parasites"...

Stick half of these Carlo apologists on a footy pitch and they would be asking which way they kick ...or where the horses are.

The only positive thing I can say about Sam. Is that his football was marginally less ugly than Carlo`s......Yeah I know. He`s Italian and he used to win stuff

Martin Mason
513 Posted 27/04/2021 at 07:19:11
I really miss the Brazil style football that Sam had us playing. Really unfair that we dumped him.
Darren, I wasn't on about the knowledgeable Goodison Crowd I was on about you.
Hugh Jenkins
514 Posted 27/04/2021 at 07:59:57
Darren(512). I honestly can't recall anyone on TW (nor any other fansite I visit), ever calling for Sam Allardyce to be our manager?
In terms of timing, he was appointed before Marco Silva. who then managed us for 18 months, before Big Dunc took over for 18 days.
With regard to Carlo Ancelotti, I dare say none of us are happy with some of the displays we have seen this season - but you can't really complain about most of the results (only how they were achieved).
On that matter, Churchill said in 1940 "Give us the tools and we will finish the job".
I dare say that Carlo Ancelotti is saying pretty much the same thing to the Everton board, right now.
To continue the anology, we have seen how we have fared with the Sopwith Camels, how will we fare with a squadron of Spitfires?
Laurie Hartley
515 Posted 27/04/2021 at 09:40:15
Hugh Jenkins # 514 - I honestly can't recall anyone on TW (nor any other fansite I visit), ever calling for Sam Allardyce to be our manager?

I did - I put a post up on ToffeeWeb calling for it. It met with great disapproval from many ToffeeWebbers. I reckon we were going down at that time and I still think we would have if he hadn’t been brought in.

No apologies for it then or now - I called it as I saw it.

Dave Abrahams
516 Posted 27/04/2021 at 10:09:10
Laurie (515), me too, I wanted Allardyce to come in, mostly because Sammy Lee was his assistant, I too thought we were in danger of going down and needed someone different to Koeman to save us.

After Allardyce had got us in to a safe position he still carried on playing the ultra defensive position instead of trying to prove, what he had always claimed, that he was a great manager who hadn’t been given the chance to prove it.

Darren though, is talking about someone else, not Big Sam.

Stan Schofield
517 Posted 27/04/2021 at 10:22:23
Regarding Sam Allardyce, before he came here there was a ToffeeWeb poll, where 80% voted against him coming here. That changed to 60% just before he was appointed, possibly a panic change because some seemed to fear relegation, which is pretty much an annual event on ToffeeWeb. The truth was, however, there was never much chance of relegation, and Allardyce was a big mistake. Utterly pointless for Everton.

Personally, I would have been content to have stuck with Unsworth for a while longer. But at least now we have the right fit for Everton in Ancelotti.

Dennis Stevens
518 Posted 27/04/2021 at 10:33:12
All Allardyce did was to carry on at the same rate of points accumulation that Unsworth had achieved, albeit that Allardyce was in a much more favourable position to do so. A waste of money, imo. I don't think Unsworth would have taken us down, he'd already dragged us out of the relegation spots, & he may have done well enough to persuade Moshiri not to pursue Silva. Allardyce was just here to get his bumper pay packet, with no incentive to do particularly well as he knew he'd be gone at season's end. Unsworth had already done the hard bit for him, imo.
Brian Harrison
519 Posted 27/04/2021 at 10:43:01
Well I am surprised Dave to say you wanted Allardyce, I agree we were only going one way under Unsworth but I would have had anybody but him. I listened to him not long after West Ham got rid of him and he openly admitted that he got pleasure out of winding up the West Ham fans by saying he had identified new players for the coming season, even though he new he wouldn't be there. That tells you all you need to know about him and his view on football supporters, horrible man.

As a so called happy clapper, and not a new happy clapper but have been one since I walked into Goodison in 1956. How could you not be a happy clapper, following a truly great club like Everton, so I wear that badge with pleasure. Have I enjoyed every manager and every team since then definitely not, in fact I think there are way more negatives than positives on that score. I hear people pushing for Unsworth or Ferguson to be given the job, but both have admitted they were not ready and both are delighted with the appointment of Ancelotti, maybe they have also joined the happy clappers. Have I been frustrated by some of Ancelottis tactics absolutely and I have said I hope this summer we can sign players that will allow us to play more front foot football.

But there is a chance that Carlo isn't the coach he used to be when winning all the titles he has won. We have seen other managers who have been very successful but take on jobs later in life that they couldnt produce the same magic as they had done before. Capello with England and Van Gaal with Man Utd and of late Mourhino is not producing the results he once did. So I readily accept that this may happen with Carlo, but surely we have to give him a little longer than a year. Lets remember Howard if a lot of Evertonians had there way would not have been in charge for the Oxford game that changed his and Evertons fortunes around. So I suggest that the critics give it till the end of next season before calling for his head..
I would just hope that if we lose him our only alternatives aren't Unsworth or Ferguson, as if they had any ambition they would be managing in their own right but I suspect neither are brave enough or good enough.

Tom Bowers
520 Posted 27/04/2021 at 11:55:58
Many people are good enough to be good managers given the right situation.
Allardyce did very well with some journeymen at Bolton and has done little since but prove he belongs in the Championship.

He was just a stop-gap at Goodison as was Unsworth although Unsy would probably do well as an assistant for some years like Arteta was at City.

All of a sudden Moyes is being heralded after a good season at West Ham but he is still the same Moyes who flopped at Manure with everything at his disposal.

Sometimes you can get lucky with the squad you inherit and so far a lot of what Ancellotti came into is still around and I think is a problem which needs to be addressed soon.

Laurie Hartley
521 Posted 27/04/2021 at 12:15:57
Dave # 516 - I realise he didn’t mean Sam - I think he meant Duncan Ferguson and possibly David Unsworth.

As far as Sam is concerned - Sam is Sam - you get what it says on the can. What I will say is that the bloke who had already put a fortune into the club thought that Sam was the man to prevent that fortune going down the gurgler and he backed his own judgement by bringing him in despite the aversion of most fans.

Whether or not David Unsworth could have obtained the same result is hypothetical. I suspect Moshiri felt it was the best investment he had made at the end of the season when we finished in eighth spot.

Stan # 517 and Dennis # 518 - in the same position what would you have done if it was your dough?

Brian # 519 - you have 5 years head start on me. We are among the lucky ones who saw the great 63 team. You and I hold very similar views on Carlo. I hope he leads the team out onto the turf at the New Stadium in 3 years time. I like the way he conducts himself.

Dennis Stevens
522 Posted 27/04/2021 at 12:26:58
Laurie, it was a triumph of misguided desperation over hope.
Sadly, I'll never have the dough to be making those sort of decisions. If I had, I wouldn't have been making that particular one at that time, as I would never have appointed Koeman in the first place.

I think Moshiri's got it about right now. Ancelotti is a wise old head, a safe pair of hands who offers the hope of progression over time, even if he may not achieve the heights he's previously attained. Ideal for an owner in Moshiri's position, a lot of money squandered & a big commitment to a new stadium. I can't help but wonder were we might be if Moshiri could have nabbed him sooner, instead of appointing Silva, or even better instead of Koeman. However, I suppose it's all about timing.

Hugh Jenkins
523 Posted 27/04/2021 at 12:29:41
Laurie (515). I must have missed that post - sorry.

I acknowledge too that SA was the "go to man" if your side was struggling and needed saving from relegation. That was his reputation and his proud boast that he had "never been relegated" as a manager.
Based on that - he was selected to replace Koeman.
As others have said, we can all speculate about what results might (or might not) have been achieved by the team / squad, at any given time, under different leadeship.
Unfortunately, of course, as has also been said, - that is all it is - speculation.

So for posters to claim that "this" - or "that" result would have been achieved if "this" or "that" person had been manager, instead of the present incumbent, is spurious.

I thouroughly enjoy reading Darren's post and find them stimulating and often informative.

However I must say that he, saying that anyone who disagrees with his view has never, effectively, been on a football pitch in his or her life, is tantamount to delusional infallability.

Dave Abrahams
524 Posted 27/04/2021 at 12:32:16
Laurie (521), yes Laurie I knew that you realised it wasn’t Big Sam, that was meant for other posters who didn’t.

Brian (519), yes I surprised myself by wanting Allardyce, but Everton were in the shit, I honestly thought, and Sam had the reputation for getting clubs out of that situation, then he had the chance to prove something, but didn’t even try, most probably content with getting eighteen months pay for six months work.

Regarding the rest of your post Brian, I agree with most of it, as you say, nothing is guaranteed with Carlo bringing success, he pleasantly surprises me then perplexes, frustrates and deflates me, maybe he does with many fans, but yes he deserves more time to prove he can move us on, so we should continue to praise him and criticise him as he deserves it.

Dave Abrahams
525 Posted 27/04/2021 at 12:48:43
Brian (519), just an aside, you say you started watching Everton in 1956, that was, I think, the year we got knocked out of the FA cup, by Man.City, yet the first half display was one of the best performances I have ever seen from an Everton team.

The man who saved City that day was Bert Trautman, the goalkeeper, pronounced fit only shortly before the game, he produced save after brilliant save, with only a Jimmy Harris effort going passed him, we were great to watch but two second half goals knocked us out, I think Bobby Johnstone got the winner for City.

The following Wednesday afternoon City trounced us 3-0 at Maine Road in a league game, and if I’m not mistaken Cliff Britton, the manager resigned after an argument, over football, with one of the Directors, Dick Searle possibly.

Christopher Timmins
526 Posted 27/04/2021 at 12:55:42
Sam was a stop gap and he did us no harm. After the Southampton debacle Unsworth could not survive and panic set in. There was just too much on the line to take a chance on Unsworth turning things around. The real problem since Moyes departed was not big Sam but big Ronald!

It's all in the past now and hopefully the current occupant of the hot seat will improve things over the coming years. There are no guarantees in football and we need a really good window this summer to move things forward.

Kieran Kinsella
527 Posted 27/04/2021 at 13:07:32
Darren

Unsworth “Long and hard,” is that why you call him Rhino?

Kristian Boyce
528 Posted 27/04/2021 at 13:30:17
Tom @520, one of my good mates is a huge WHU fan. When he talks about the season, it’s like going back in history to when Moyes was here. Slow start, then a solid mid season where they are hard to beat, then it fizzles out at the end as the players are knackered.

There current season is very much similar to our champ league run. Not the most skillful squad, but a lot of togetherness. He reckons they are going to drop right off though as the players are getting super tired. You can see it even in their games. They’ll come out blazing and get a couple of goals, but then tire and end up drawing/losing.

David Cash
529 Posted 27/04/2021 at 15:15:22
Martin,Mason

I know you openly prayed for Everton to lose their last semi final because you didnt like the manager and I know your many swipes at Darren will continue to be blanked for that very reason. But Your claim that he is a parasite is just plain disgusting.

This guy has had a season ticket for half a century. He the got season tickets for his lads. Later for his Grand kids.

The guy has spent tens of thousands to watch this club and bring his kids into the fold. Hardly the actions of a parasite

Who are you to call fans parasites What have you ever contributed ? Do you send your contributions by post ?

And have the courage of your convictions. You say "THEY are parasiteS Dont try to weasel out of it

Brian Harrison
530 Posted 27/04/2021 at 15:34:53
Dave 525

I sadly don't remember that spefic game but I am always astonished at your memory in recalling games over 60 years ago, sometimes I forget who we played a couple of weeks back. My lasting memory of Jimmy Harris wasnt a football one, I remember getting on the number 14 bus and Jimmy Harris was sitting on the bus. I think he was courting Roberta Brown who was Miss Great Britain and she lived in Croxteth. Couldnt imagine ever seeing one of todays Premier league players on public transport.

Maybe that's were the game has gone wrong, yes in the days of the maximum wage they were exploited now there the ones doing the exploitation. I said to a mate the other day how like Polo is to football, he said how do you work that out, I said well its watching multi millionaires hit a ball about. the only difference they do it perched on a horse but the good thing there is no VAR in Polo.

Brian Wilkinson
531 Posted 27/04/2021 at 16:07:02
Just a slight off topic, Everton linked to Coutinho, around €40 million, I hope this has legs this time, my transfer wishes was Doucoure and Coutinho, we managed to land Doucoure, Coutinho, Allan and Doucoure in midfield is a big upgrade.

Rabiot is an option as well.

What do other posters think of Coutinho as a player.

Don Alexander
532 Posted 27/04/2021 at 16:10:50
Dazza (#512), once again you base your antagonism to me on your own imagination.

I've never stated the football we're enduring is acceptable in trying to get into Europe. I've always said that the mess inherited by Carlo and Marcel is still too big to enable much optimism this season. I've gone on and on about the need for Moshiri, and whomever he trusts to guide him, to this summer enable quality players to be signed.

I've repeatedly said you don't sign a manager like Ancelotti and then give him nowhere near enough ingredients to enable him to deliver the sort of quality you, me, and all of us aspire to be seeing.

But hey, since when has the truth ever stopped you having a venal rant against fellow fans eh?

Ian Edwards
533 Posted 27/04/2021 at 16:11:34
I'm not sure how the heading of this article referring to Ancelotti as "Carlo Fantastico" is justified. Then again the word Fantastico is closely related to the word Fantasy.
Danny O’Neill
534 Posted 27/04/2021 at 16:30:43
Intrigued is probably the best word Brian.

Coutinho an upgrade on what we have? Yes.

If it happens, I would see him as someone who would fill the number 10 slot. James occasionally coming in but also using them both with James in more of the role we saw earlier in the season.

Upgraded right back, Koulibaly alongside Godfrey and then a striker. That starts to have a very good feel to it.

If I could be greedy, Sabitzer from Leipzig as well, although I guess he may follow his current boss to Bayern now?

Dave Abrahams
535 Posted 27/04/2021 at 16:36:47
Brian (530), Brian that particular game v Man. City stands out because Everton were really outstanding in that first half display, I know the game lasts for ninety minutes, well it then, but we should have been so far ahead that the second half was just about playing it out.

Re Jimmy Harris, up to two years ago he used to sit just across the aisle, in The Upper Bullens Road stand, from me with his grandson, and he had a very good memory about the years gone by, he is one of the oldest ex Everton players still going, must be about eighty five.

Martin Mason
536 Posted 27/04/2021 at 17:16:27
David@529 Then you know nothing sorry. I don’t pray because I’m an atheist. Also I said only that I would accept the loss of the semi -final to see one manager go. Do you see the difference between that and what you said? I also didn’t say that Darren was a parasite only the typical fan who boos at games. OK, too harsh but I don’t care for them and it was a dig at Darren that’s all. What I said about Darren is, “Darren, I wasn't on about the knowledgeable Goodison Crowd I was on about you.” The inference is that there is a very knowledgeable crowd as Darren said but that I don’t accept, from his comments, that he is one of them. The number of times he has watched Everton or how much money he has spent is irrelevant in that respect I would say that there are many, many long term fans who really know little about the game. David, please read what was said and think about it before posting. Emotional Diarrhoea rarely makes sense.
Darren Hind
537 Posted 27/04/2021 at 17:37:52
Casho

Why on earth would you care what Mason said ?

he didnt just say he would accept a loss to get rid of the manager. He repeatedly came on stating that he really hoped we would lose the semi in order for the manager to be sacked. He was quite rightly hammered by people pointing out that he was wanting the dreams of thousands of young blues to be crushed.

A hypocrite of the highest order. He has since spent years aiming nasty comments at people who criticse the managers since...A born again happy clapper

In all the years I have supported this club he is one of only two people I have heard ofwho have wished our team to lose,

Zero football knowledge - You`ll have already gathered that.

Wide berth mate

Martin Mason
538 Posted 27/04/2021 at 18:16:09
Darren, do you know more about football than Ancelotti?
Hugh Jenkins
539 Posted 27/04/2021 at 18:17:40
Ian (533). As has been pointed out earlier, under Carlo we have recorded our first away wins in This Century against the RS, Spurs and Arsenal and have also beaten our nemesis for the first time since October 2010, all under his leadership.

"Fantastico" - yeah - if the cap fits - wear it.

Andrew Ellams
540 Posted 27/04/2021 at 18:29:17
Coutinho is not what we need, especially with James in the team too. We need more pace and he's not that man.
Robert Tressell
541 Posted 27/04/2021 at 18:32:31
Brian #531. Coutinho is a cracking player. There's no doubting that. The issue is his motivation to succeed and his durability. He's only played 12 games this season which suggests that even if his heart is in it, his legs may not be. So it would tie up a lot of money to sign him but possibly not that much output. Especially risky since we're already not getting lots of games out of Allan and Rodriguez.
Karl Masters
542 Posted 27/04/2021 at 18:43:14
Hugh Jenkins. Either you have the memory of a goldfish or don’t know when this century started! We have won at Spurs three times this century - 2-1 in 2006, 3-1 in 2007 and 1-0 in 2008
Martin Mason
543 Posted 27/04/2021 at 18:45:48
Karl, all three in the same season?
Dale Self
544 Posted 27/04/2021 at 18:46:22
Yeah and what about the other stuff Karl? Oh, even better Martin. This is English isn't it.
Rob Dolby
545 Posted 27/04/2021 at 18:52:55
Brian 531. Coutinho has obviously been a decent player when he has people around him to do the dirty work for him but not for me.

I would rather buy a Philips, Rice, ward prowse, McGinn or Kante type rather than luxury. Getting the right balance is key.

Back to the op. I would take an away win no matter how bad the performance. You don't get any points for playing open football and getting beaten.

Peter Warren
546 Posted 27/04/2021 at 18:55:26
Agree with a lot of what Stan says. I don’t aspire to be Leicester. I think they’re having a good season but just like West Ham I don’t see them as a challenger.

I actually see more potential in us but I am a optimistic blue of the highest order. I really like Ancelotti. He seems a great fit to me, great fella, seems to get Everton and clearly thought of well by players. I thought football at the start was really good - actually it was the defence what was poor (& still is). I think a few signings will transform this team. In really looking forward to what occurs.

I don’t disagree that our football has been turd for many many months but I do disagree that this is what will be served up week in week out. We need better players and good performances will come. It won’t happen overnight it will be an evolution not revolution and I’m fine with that - let’s just get better each season which I’m confident we will do.

I do think anything less than 6th this season will be (rightly) viewed as a poor season.

Martin Mason
547 Posted 27/04/2021 at 18:59:57
I could be completely wrong but I would say Coutinho would be a dreadful buy. I say we need value, young, possibly English? Not Rice or Grealish as they won't come here. Would Madisson come? He is really good.
Kieran Kinsella
548 Posted 27/04/2021 at 19:01:05
Don't see a Coutinho move coming. It sounds lake lazy journalism e.g. "Everton previously bought a 29 year old fancy, but injury prone, non tackling flair player on loan as a super sub at Bayern from a Spanish league near bankrupt "super league" team so let's assume they will do the exact same thing again." If we did buy him, then God help Docoure if he is covering the acres between Coutinho and James. I cannot see Coutinho and James playing side by side in a PL team. I also cannot see us having the cash to have both with one sat in reserve.
Ajay Gopal
549 Posted 27/04/2021 at 19:20:10
Martin (547), why would Madisson come to Everton when he can be playing in the Champions League next season? I really like the look of Dwight McNeil at Burnley, I believe he can be ‘our James Madisson’! A new RB, any 2 out of McNeil, Buendia, St. Maximin, Perreira (WBA) and a striker (Diagne at WBA is my current favourite) after selling Kean, Mina, Bernard, Iwobi and Delph, and we would be significantly strengthened next season.
Dale Self
550 Posted 27/04/2021 at 19:25:22
I think McNeil is more an outside player who cuts in as opposed to a true 10. Maddison may be willing to take a look if Vardy hangs it up or Iheanacho loses form. Not sure who but a 10 is definitely needed if we keep Richy and DCL since they lack the chemistry to find opportunities for each other.
Martin Mason
551 Posted 27/04/2021 at 19:30:11
Good points Ajay
Andy Crooks
552 Posted 27/04/2021 at 21:35:23
Ajay, I like the players you mention. Here's the thing, though, they are in plain sight. How big an attraction are we? St Maximin will have options. To me, signings like this will demonstrate just what pulling power Carlo has got. I suspect younger players will be less impressed but I would love to be wrong on that.
I believe that Gary Lineker was the last big signing, of a player with the world at his feet, we made. A return to that will be the biggest sign that are time has come again.
David Hayes
553 Posted 27/04/2021 at 00:00:17
Martin Mason, we all have our solid options about what we see and believe, about the state and precived short comings of our club. Players and managers both delight and frustrate us continually. We no nothing at all about the managing or playing of this game at this level, we have no inside knowledge or idea what actually is going on at this club. What we all do is watch is watch a game and give an opinion on what we think we saw. Armchair management is what we do, and our opinions don't matter at all individually and don't effect anything. So why act as if they do and are vital and need to be shouted at the rest of us
Spite laden rants at other fans to reinforce your or anybody else's unqualified views are nauseating to read, Going after individual posters on a regular basis with abuse is more than nauseating, not clever or rightouss.
Kieran Kinsella
554 Posted 28/04/2021 at 00:58:48
Darren

If you want to call me a sycophant that’s fine I’ve been called worse but I reserve the right to change my opinion if Carlo doesn’t fulfill my expectations. I think he will. That said, I would concur with Casho and saying Mason is wrong to call you or any other match day attendee a “parasite.” What kind of parasite gives money to a club? Bobby, I agree I don’t like booing but there are occasions when it’s appropriate eg Nyarko.

Mike Gaynes
555 Posted 28/04/2021 at 02:04:22
Kieran, you're not a sycophant. You can't be unless you personally know Carlo and flatter him in person. Darren enjoys using the word but it's not correctly applied.

My pedantic post for the evening.

Don Alexander
556 Posted 28/04/2021 at 02:06:08
Coutinho isn't what we need. Gylfi and James do what he does.

What we need is a Bally box-to-box dynamo with a tackle, a fabulous range of passing, and more than a few goals.

Is that too much to ask for?

Answers on a share certificate please.

Steve Brown
557 Posted 28/04/2021 at 03:23:14
Mike @ 555, on that theme. Does that mean to be a 'happy clapper' you actually have to be happy and clap at the same time?

I don't always clap when I am happy but will start immediately. Although it might upset the missus when we are in bed.

Alan J Thompson
558 Posted 28/04/2021 at 05:20:20
Steve(#557); You may have opened a can of worms here.

You don't have to be happy to clap or clap to be happy but you should perhaps consider that if the wife is in bed giggling and clapping that it might not be you but the confirmation and thought of your imminent replacement. Alternatively, does the wife have a record of happily clapping in bed?

It's a hard life if you don't weaken!

Darren Hind
559 Posted 27/04/2021 at 05:49:24
Hugh Jenkins @

You couldnt be more wrong the only thing I come on here for is to be informed, to learn.

I will debate and learn from people who have opposing views to me all day long. I do it virtually every day. I love to talk football...However: There are a small group of people who post on this site on a daily basis who don't know enough about the game to actually talk about it. They don't know enough to ever question the manager. As far as they are concerned, he will always, always, always be right.
Within this group are a handful of people who think its a good idea to come on and take unprovoked personal swipes. They will dedicate whole posts to the individual without even mentioning the game (see post 510 for prime example). In other words they want an argument.
If you respond to this personal stuff they will whine and accuse you of attacking "fellow fans".

I'm not kidding Hugh. It is totally beyond me as to why people would come on a footy website and try to ingratiate themselves with a handful of like minded without actually mentioning the game. Yet it happens all the time.
My comments where not directed at knowledgeable people who support Ancelotti and want to discuss the game. They were directed at happy clappers who don't.

As for your comment regarding wins big clubs; Whilst it comes as a considerable relief that we have finally thrown these monkeys off our backs. I would have much preferred to have done it by rising up to the level they have been at, rather than wait 20 years for them to come down to ours.

Regarding the question above.

I know Everton better then Carlo ever will. I know Goodison and all of its idiosyncracses better than he does. I know what makes the faithful silent. Like every other regular, I know what makes them excitedly jump out of their seat pumping their fist.. I know what turns the place into a bear pit...and I know the type of football which will incur wrath.
Does that make me qualified to give an opinion on what their reaction would have been to the overly cautious, Spirit sapping performances we have produced this season ? Fucking right it does

Andy Walker
560 Posted 28/04/2021 at 06:23:48
Deary me Darren.

Perhaps you could produce and share a list of contributors who are sufficiently qualified to make comments about our team. You can then control the narrative and ensure you don’t have to read posts from people ‘who don’t know enough about the game’, whilst you prattle on thinking you’re right all the time.

Hugh Jenkins
561 Posted 27/04/2021 at 08:28:21
Karl (542). My apologies for inacurracy, I was trying to illustrate a point and got carried away. I could have said " something none of our previous 6 managers achieve (including interims)", but again that would not have necessarily been accurate because we may not have played Spurs away, under all of them. It might also be argued that we beat them all away, for the first time in many years, because they are all in decline, not because we are getting better under Ancelotti.
I happen to believe that he and the few signings he has made since he has been here, have made a significant difference and that there is more, and better, to come.
But, just to start with, he has begun by laying a few bogeys at grounds that have previously been graveyards for our aspirations.
Martin Mason
562 Posted 28/04/2021 at 08:30:41
David@553
Correct, 0oinions are fine and this is the place to air them but they are worthless if they are unsupported. Such opinions can and must be challenged, they are not sacrosanct. Do you not agree with that? When opinions are made in a patronising and rude fashion (as Darren’s always are) then it is difficult not to respond to them with equal rudeness. That Darren comes on here to swap opinions and learn is laughable, he has a quasi religious narrative that he never changes and my view he comes here only to bless us with his perceived knowledge of the game and to sneer and look down his nose at anybody who doesn't support his narrative. What you said about our opinions not affecting anything and the fact that we are unqualified compared with Everton’s staff is correct and a point that I’ve made many times so many thanks for the support. That has always been my response to people like Darren, what do they gain by such irrational and unconstructive comments? I come here to learn so I’m interested. I’ll continue to challenge certain opinions and in Darren’s (no in everybody’s) case I’ll do my very best not to be rude. Looking back though I can’t really see any rudeness that anybody but a snowflake would find as nauseous and be fair, it’s only Darren not other posters, I rate his sneering abuse far worse.
Brian Murray
563 Posted 28/04/2021 at 09:22:32
Many thanks to Becky and the ToffeeWeb team for the the first mascot thread ( my brother John ) superbly put together, I’m getting all kenright reading it. As for this thread and Carlo well he doesn’t help himself by never going for the second goal but he’s the best we have had for a long time especially his standing and attracting better players so here’s hoping we get the four players ( at least ) we need. Pacy full back, winger, box to box midfielder who can actually shoot and a striker, Bollox to ffp we are at the moment in a string position off the pitch after the sky darlings shenanigans, let’s seize it,
David Cash
564 Posted 28/04/2021 at 09:56:53
Martin Mason

You are making a complete fool of yourself. Having been exposed as a total hypocrite your are now trying to claim your nasty little digs are "responses". Nobody will be buying that pathetic excuse


Until I pulled you up for your vindictive "parasite" remark. Nobody addressed you So who are you responding to ?

I have yet to see anybody on this site go for you in a personal level. Yet I see you do it all the time.Do you realise how cowardly it looks ?
Do you ever actually talk about the game ?

I now see the wisdom of the advice to give you a wide berth.

Ajay

I agree with you about Maddison.
Leicester may be a better alternative at the moment, but that's an impressive list of attainable players you put up. If Carlo can bring in a couple of players of that ilk. I don't see any reason why we cant breeze past the likes of Leicester next season

Brian Harrison
565 Posted 28/04/2021 at 10:10:34
Ajay

I think Brands went for Madisson before he signed for Leicester, but his main reason for selecting Leicester was because it was close to Coventry where his Mum and Dad live. So I don't think we would pursue him again.

Danny O’Neill
566 Posted 28/04/2021 at 10:18:43
Madisson is indeed turning into a quality player. Almost like what we hoped Sigurdsson was going to be if that makes sense? Similar skill and set piece ability but with more zest, drive and mobility.

Ward-Prowse similarly.

Just whilst on Leicester, I watched an interesting programme about various clubs last night. Different topic and one I rant about a lot, but never realised that the reason Jamie Vardy dropped down into non-league football was because Sheffield Wednesday rejected him. For what? For being too small. How English.

Eddie Dunn
567 Posted 28/04/2021 at 11:27:57
Danny - I agree on Maddison, he has had one or two poorly timed injuries and seems to have dropped down the England Pecking order. Mount seems to be flavour of the month, especially as Grealish has also been crocked.
Maddison might well stay with a Champions league Leicester but I am sure that both Grealish and Maddison will be tempted by the big boys come the summer.
I disagree on Ward-Prowse. For me he is a deadball specialist but he is little else. I don't see clever passes or much of an athlete.
A decent enough PL player with that dead ball skill. Sigurdsson lite.
I think we need a Calvin Phillips or a Declan Rice. Big engines, plenty of pace and decent on the ball.
Martin Mason
568 Posted 28/04/2021 at 12:05:17
David@564 Poor Dear. I see you respond to none of the corrections I made to your first point and you needed to do that rather than spraying nonsense in reply. I don't mind correcting you because you'll learn that way (unlikely though??. I obviously won't respond in kind to your cowardly abuse though. Please, please give me a wide berth. I'm blanking you now sorry, you add nothing.
Martin Mason
569 Posted 28/04/2021 at 12:10:20
I have a feeling that Maddison, Rice and Grealish are out of Everton's Pay grade and will go to top 4 clubs or Europe. Purchases are such a difficult and high risk business. Leicester seem to do really well whereas we have typically done badly. Hopefully that is behind us now? I'd say that the rich grounds are the teams that seem to oscillate between Championship and PL such as Norwich.
Sam Hoare
570 Posted 28/04/2021 at 12:18:46
Some of the most ironic posts here that i've seen in a long time. Fantastic (or fantastical?) stuff!!
Danny O’Neill
571 Posted 28/04/2021 at 12:34:05
Have to admit to being slowly won over by Rice having been a bit of a sceptic initially.

I suppose like all players, the question is whether they show consistency and how do they react when no longer the big fish in a smaller pond (Michael Keane, Sigurdsson, Wilfred Zaha).

Brian Harrison
572 Posted 28/04/2021 at 12:47:46
While Maddison is a talented player for me he isn't in the same class as Foden who is so like his mentor David Silva, I also think Mount and Grealish are ahead of him, and Rice is also a class act. I think Grealish may move in the summer and he would be just what we are looking for someone who can carry the ball and go past people. But if he leaves Villa it will be to either of the Manchester clubs or possibly even Arsenal.
Jay Wood
[BRZ]

573 Posted 28/04/2021 at 13:23:15
Welcome back Sam @ 570.

Health OK? I've been concerned by your absence from TW in recent weeks.

And your right about some comically fantastical posts that litter this thread by a number of posters.

A case of not observing the old Greek aphorism, scio te ipsum, 'know thyself', methinks.

Eddie Dunn
574 Posted 28/04/2021 at 14:03:34
Danny- I too have been won over by Rice..I didn't know what all the fuss was about last season but he really looks a player.
Martin, I'm afraid you're right about the possible destinations for the above mentioned. They will surely want CL footy, huge wages and a regular top 4 club.
We need to snap up the Maddisons of this world before they become hot properties.
The signing of Godfrey is the way forward and gives me hope that more lads of his ilk will follow.
Kieran Kinsella
575 Posted 28/04/2021 at 14:12:00
Brian 572

I wonder if Ward-Prowse is a Mark Kinsella type. Technically sound, good on free kicks but a big fish small pond type rather than a top player?

Sam Hoare
576 Posted 28/04/2021 at 14:18:32
Jay@573 Ha! Yes, indeed!

Health is good thanks. Decided to expend a little less time and emotion on TW but still check in from time to time.

Hope you're doing well.

Brian Harrison
577 Posted 28/04/2021 at 14:34:05
Kieran 575

There is no doubt there are few better at dead ball situations than Ward Prowse, now I suppose the only question is, does he have the rest of the tools to be a top player, I am not sure. I think your analogy of a big fish in a small pond is correct, the times you look at players playing for a less fashionable club and think he could be good surrounded by better players, but when that move happens how often have we seen players fail to deliver. Now that could be his new manager plays him in a different position than he played at his previous club, or he was to good for the group he was playing with but just lacked the quality to make the step up.

Liam Heffernan
578 Posted 28/04/2021 at 15:05:36
I read that Manure have put a bid of 80 million for DCL. If true. Would it be wise to sell and if so, who replaces him.
Karl Masters
579 Posted 28/04/2021 at 15:24:56
Was it wise to let our last decent goal scorer, lukaku leave without already having a ready to go replacement? Think we now know the answer to your question.

£80m buys 3 Davy Klaassens and a Sandro Ramirez

Kieran Kinsella
580 Posted 28/04/2021 at 15:25:28
Liam

I wouldn’t.

Brent Stephens
581 Posted 28/04/2021 at 15:30:01
Kieran are you saying you wouldn’t sell him? Or you wouldn’t be the one to replace him?!
Ray Robinson
582 Posted 28/04/2021 at 15:33:10
I agree with Danny #571 and Eddie #574 re Rice who has won me over after my originally pondering what all the fuss was about. We missed out on Maddison but Foden, Grealish and Mount have never really been up for grabs. I wish our Academy could have produced such a player! At one point, I thought Barkley could be that player but he has fizzled out.

Ward-Prowse is an interesting one, Brian #577. I think he looks like a labouring type sometimes due to his running style but I think he's got a damn good motor and battery. Definitely worth a punt.

We really missed out on some of the players Leicester scouted - Tielemans and previously Mahrez, for example. This is where Brands has to do his job. I feel, given the nature of our current position and budget, the solution may have to come from abroad.

At one point, I really liked Brookes at Bournemouth but he appears to have disappeared off the radar. I like Buendia too, fine footballer but a tad too slow for my liking. Cantwell looke a good prospect at one point. What's he doing these days? Slightly leftfield, what about Armstrong at Southampton? McNeil at Burnley definitely is worth looking at.

What we don't need is any more technically gifted but second gear players. Nor injury prone ones. We have far too many of those already. Pace, dynamism, athleticism and skilled. Not too much to ask for but difficult to find. Over to you Marcel.

Final point on Godfrey. What an excellent, whole hearted young player! But I have to see him do it all over again next season. I've seen too many players flatter to deceive over the years. I'm confident he will but I suppose the point I wish to make is that we may have to accept an element of risk in our recruitment of younger players. Some times they burn brightly and fade, others take a while to become consistent.

We have to energise our midfied!

Andrew Ellams
583 Posted 28/04/2021 at 15:34:01
I we can get £80m in the current climate for Calvert-Lewin I would sell. There is better out there for that sort of money.
Dan Nulty
584 Posted 28/04/2021 at 15:40:15
I wouldn't be selling Calvert Lewin. We need someone in to compliment him, not replace him.

Have to trust Carlo and Brands together. Summer window last year was our best for some years.

Brian Williams
585 Posted 28/04/2021 at 15:56:51
Andrew#583.
Who would you go for Andrew?
Kieran Kinsella
586 Posted 28/04/2021 at 15:57:21
Brent

Neither lol. It would send a terrible message if we sold him (e.g. the selling club etc) And as Karl says what would we get with the money? Once the cash hits the bank then any potential selling club out there will jack up their prices as "well if this player is replacing your 80 million pound man then he must be worth 70 million." To Andrew's point, there are certainly clubs out there desperate for cash. But the ones in greatest peril Juve, Inter (whose owners want to off load them) have players on insane wages e.g. Ramsey on 400k a week. Even if they agree to take less for say selling Lukaku, would he take less to join a non CL club? I doubt it. With James we were able to structure the deal so he effectively will earn the money he was due if he had stayed at Real Madrid over the next two years. That kind of deal rarely happens.

Stan Schofield
587 Posted 28/04/2021 at 15:59:25
Yes, let’s sell DCL, we’re just a mediocre feeder club for proper football clubs like Man Utd. Let’s just continue the habit of three decades of midtable mediocrity. It’s utterly pointless keeping up-and-coming players who are progressing in their prime. We could sell him, and buy the equivalent of Tosun or King to replace him, plus a couple of midfielders in the twilight of their careers. Keep us nicely midtable, never needing to worry about winning a trophy, never really needing to worry about relegation. It also gives DCL a chance to win a few medals elsewhere. We don’t want to set aspirations any higher than that.

Or do we?

Kieran Kinsella
588 Posted 28/04/2021 at 16:01:24
Ray

Good call on Brookes. I believe he had a lengthy injury that caused him to much most of last season. Not sure how he has done this year in the EFL but he's only 23 so if he can regain his form he might be worth a punt

Brent Stephens
589 Posted 28/04/2021 at 16:02:18
That's a relief, Kieran! On both counts!
Andrew Ellams
590 Posted 28/04/2021 at 16:08:44
Brian that's why Marcel Brands has been given a new contract.

But I don't think we can get the best out of players like James and Sigurdsson when we have a striker who just isn't good enough running onto balls in the box and going one on one with the keeper.

Mike Gaynes
591 Posted 28/04/2021 at 16:09:10
I hear there's been a Sam sighting. I had to rush back and see for myself. Maybe take a few photos. Yo, Sam!

Andrew #583, like who? Can you name a striker we could buy for that figure right now who would be better than Dom? Would score a goal every game-and-a-half and do everything else he does?

My first instinct would be, hell yeah, 80m for Dom would be a great price. Now.

But would it look great a few years from now? Remember, we're talking about a 24-year-old striker who has significantly improved every aspect of his game except his dreadful shooting. He's stronger, more aggressive and much, much better at getting on the end of chances than he was a year ago. And strikers mature late, so it's safe to assume his consistency will improve over time.

20-goal-scorers of his youth and physical presence don't exactly fall off trees. I'd say let's get a playmaking midfielder and a speedy winger who can create more scoring chances for him -- we're still in the bottom half of the league in chances created -- and see how he does.

We can always sell him later if he doesn't improve more. I'm guessing he will... even if he never learns to shoot.

Kieran Kinsella
592 Posted 28/04/2021 at 16:12:04
Andrew 590

"But I don't think we can get the best out of players like James and Sigurdsson when we have a striker who just isn't good enough running onto balls in the box and going one on one with the keeper."

Which is why I would consider selling Richarlison as that is more his role.

Kieran Kinsella
593 Posted 28/04/2021 at 16:12:04
Andrew 590

"But I don't think we can get the best out of players like James and Sigurdsson when we have a striker who just isn't good enough running onto balls in the box and going one on one with the keeper."

Which is why I would consider selling Richarlison as that is more his role.

Tony Everan
594 Posted 28/04/2021 at 16:17:11
I don’t want us to sell Calvert-Lewin, he’s an asset for our attack. I think we need to be looking at how we can get the best out of him and buy another forward to give us option attack. Compared to he top 4/6 clubs we are a bit predictable going forward.

We need that forward thinking and energy in midfield. Our own Mount, Foden. We need a player with this boundless energy and good technically too. It’s been said a million times our midfielders are too ponderous and we are way too slow in accurate, zipping passes going forward.

Having said that against Tottenham two weeks ago we were way better. Is Carlo and the staff getting through to them at last ? It’s hard to say as the Arsenal match was a largely disjointed display.

Bruno Fernandes was a catalyst for Man Utd to improve, our midfield still needs this type of player to bring goals, assists and attacking energy.

Grealish is a different type of player, but a wonderful footballer. Who wouldn’t have him in a heartbeat?, but James Rodriguez has his sublime creativity too, so whilst James is here we will have to forgo Grealish for now.

Stan Schofield
595 Posted 28/04/2021 at 16:29:23
Tony@594: Good post, but I think it would work if we had Grealish whilst James is here. Grealish is a different type of player, with more movement and energy. James is better than anybody else at making the ball do the work.

Grealish reminds me of Alan Ball, exactly the type of player we need to bring more movement through the midfield. Grealish playing alongside James would, imo, be like Ball playing alongside Colin Harvey.

Martin Mason
596 Posted 28/04/2021 at 16:35:10
I'm not sure that we'd get £80mil for DCL in current market conditions? If I had to pick the £80mil in our forward line it'd be Richarlison who I believe would walk into any top side. For me he is the complete player. The reason that they don't both shine continually for us is that we have a slightly weak and unbalanced midfield that struggles to get the ball to them as needed. It may be good business though to sell either or both if we have the right replacements. All clubs are selling clubs at the right price, that is part of football business. There are no "no selling" clubs.
Danny O’Neill
597 Posted 28/04/2021 at 16:36:09
I wouldn't be selling Calvert-Lewin. I would be looking to bring in a more experienced and proven striker to challenge him and equally compliment him. Remember the effect Andy Gray had on Grahame Sharp?

Aside from that, I've said earlier, I have a £1 each way bet (with myself) on Kean being back next season.

Striker, right back and then more patches to the midfield. I know that's asking a lot, but then we expect a lot of this manager and next season he is rightfully going to have to show us why we pay the money and he has the reputation.

In addition to that, whilst I'm theorising and playing fantasy transfer football, I'd still like Koulibaly if that's on. Coutinho could be an interesting one to fill the 10 position and swap out with or play alongside James. And then if you were to ask me for an attacking midfielder of choice I could have, Sabitzer from Leipzig.

Aarons, Koulibaly, Godfrey, Digne

Allan, Doucoure

Richarlison, Coutinho (or James), Sabitzer

DCL

I don't usually play this game as you never know and can't predict but even with the likes of Sigurdsson, Davies, Keane, Holgate, Coleman (still) Nkounkou, a few additions like that starts to improve the team and the squad.

Brian Wilkinson
598 Posted 28/04/2021 at 16:37:58
Had someone said over a year ago £80 Million for Calvert-Lewin I would say snatch their hands off, this last season he has turned into a natural old fashioned number 9.

He seems to win almost every ball that is played up to him, chesting it down and bringing others into play, his heading ability now is second to none, still a little rough around the edges of putting those one on one chances away, but has improved from the previous season.

The service to him could be much better, sometimes fighting a lone battle in attack, if he went to a team that played to his strengths and support, he would certainly be one if not the best strikers around.

What he has achieved, with our snail paced midfield is remarkable, £80 Million might seem decent money, but there is no striker out there around his age, that you could bring in for that amount of money.

Instead of looking for a replacement, we need to be looking for an additional striker to help out.

I would tell Utd, he is not for sale at any price.

Martin Mason
599 Posted 28/04/2021 at 16:41:04
Tony@594, good call on all of the players that you mention. Do you feel that we have a chance of buying at that level? One other player I like is Harvey Barnes at Leicester, OK, and Yuri Tielemans. I'm always sorry that we never bought Johny Evans.
Robert Tressell
600 Posted 28/04/2021 at 16:42:05
We have so few quality players we shouldn't be selling any of them if we can help it.

Unfortunately, neither Grealish nor Sabitzer will be joining Everton. They have the pick of the Champions League clubs. We're not there yet.

Danny O’Neill
601 Posted 28/04/2021 at 16:52:04
Interesting how many stuck their noses up at Evans a few years back on the basis he was a United reject.

Centre backs mature later. Don't judge them before 26 - 28 years in my opinion. Unless there are obvious flaws in their game that are unlikely to change.

Stan Schofield
602 Posted 28/04/2021 at 16:52:13
Martin@596: All clubs do indeed sell players, but some clubs habitually sell their best up-and-coming players in their prime, whilst elite clubs habitually sign such players. We used to be like the latter, but became the former three decades ago. We are supposed to be changing away from that, back to the latter. If we don’t, we aint goin nowhere except remaining shite.
Andy Crooks
603 Posted 28/04/2021 at 16:54:13
To sell DCL would be a signal that we know our place as we have done for far too long. Time to draw a line on selling to our competitors. If any of our team think they are Champions League standard then show it by getting us there.
Mike Gaynes
604 Posted 28/04/2021 at 16:54:34
You beat me to it, Robert. We're not a destination for players like that at this point, or for guys like Barnes and Tielemans who are already headed into the Champions League. Rodgers sure as hell won't be selling any of his players at this point.

As always, I say we need to look outside the Prem for our transfer candidates.

Danny O’Neill
605 Posted 28/04/2021 at 16:58:03
Might not be his players if he ends up at Tottenham Mike?

I'd be amazed if he gave up what he has at Leicester, but Rodgers has always struck me as someone who thinks ahead and cares not for the short term. So amazed but not surprised if he jumped should Tottenham come calling.

Martin Mason
606 Posted 28/04/2021 at 17:03:32
Stan@602 I agree, the difference is those that sell for business and those that, as we have often done, sell simply to survive.
Mike Gaynes
607 Posted 28/04/2021 at 17:06:28
Danny, the Celtic fans certainly think so!

https://www.hitc.com/en-gb/2021/04/28/welcome-to-spurs-celtic-fans-react-to-what-brendan-rodgers-has-just-said-about-tottenham/

But unless there's an absolute boatload of money involved, no way Rodgers will jump. He's a shrewd judge of young talent, and Leicester has way more of it than Spurs. Most dynamic young midfield in the Prem by far. They'll stay in the Champions League for years if they keep it together.

Alan J Thompson
608 Posted 28/04/2021 at 17:11:01
80Mill plus two of Lingard, Martial, McTominay(?), James(the Welsh winger?) or Mata with Kean returning might just be tempting but probably not straight cash but who knows what Messrs Ancelotti and Brands have in mind.
Kieran Kinsella
609 Posted 28/04/2021 at 17:17:34
Danny/Mike

Brenda having walked out on his childhood dream club of Celtic said on arriving a Leicester a club he had no prior involvement with “I would die for this club.”
Moral of the story: he’s full of shit. He’d sign for the devil himself

Martin Mason
610 Posted 28/04/2021 at 17:24:49
Kieran, that is the type of manager we need, an absolute mercenary judged on performance not a staff man.
Danny O’Neill
611 Posted 28/04/2021 at 17:26:42
This is an individual who is wrapped up in himself. He likes the status.

Don't get me wrong, a very good and proven coach, but he likes status, so a club like Tottenham would appeal however good the short term prospects look at the King Power on Filbert Way, Leicester.

An individual who's first actions I believe when he took over at Liverpool, were to erect a portrait of himself in the manager's office, whiten his teeth (there is subsequent history there) and bin his wife for a younger model.

I distract. I suppose my point is that Rodgers is all about Rodgers and the image. Not necessarily the short-term gain a decent Leicester team may give him. That's not a criticism by the way despite my childish mudslinging above. He is ambitious and I believe if he got offered the Tottenham gig, he could well be tempted. He saw the lure of the Premier League as sufficient bait to walk from Celtic. In fairness, he thinks strategically & realistically from a Brendan Rodgers career perspective.

Kieran Kinsella
612 Posted 28/04/2021 at 17:28:48
Martin

I’d say Koeman was an absolute mercenary and had a good track record coming in but how did that work out?

Martin Mason
613 Posted 28/04/2021 at 17:40:04
Kieran, nothing to do with him being a mercenary. His problem was incompetence. What track record did he have ? Your alternative selection criteria would be?
Tony Abrahams
614 Posted 28/04/2021 at 17:46:33
That’s a very good description of Brendan Rodgers imo Danny. He also must have friends in high places, to stay out the national newspapers, when his son turned up at the woman’s house with whom he was having an affair, (or maybe it was because it was a Liverpool staff member?) brandishing a cricket bat screaming for him to get out the house!

I remember seeing a picture of him doing sprints with his Liverpool first team squad, and if you could see the vanity in the picture, then I’d harbour a guess that he must get some fuckn stick when his back is turned?

Barry Rathbone
615 Posted 28/04/2021 at 17:47:07
Think if we got 80m for DCL the opportunity for Carlo to do a "Wenger" is a real possibility. When Wenger flogged Nicolas Anelka for a colossal sum eyebrows were raised but he built an empire with the dough.

Players get stale after 3yrs they need to be permanently under threat as per the utd model under Ferguson. DCL is good but every player has his price and 80m would do the job

Kieran Kinsella
616 Posted 28/04/2021 at 17:52:30
Martin

Compared with the other mercenary Brendan Rodgers he had a good track record. Both one titles and cups in a weaker league (Netherlands/Scotland). Difference being Ronald did it at different clubs, Brendan took over a club that had won the past 6 years in a row, and while maintaining that he turned them from a team that had been in the knockout stages of the CL under his predecessor into a team that were utterly humiliated by Kazakh opponents. Koeman also won a cup in Spain, and Portugal, and may do the double in Spain this year. He also inherited a Soton team in dire straights after their manager and half the team left, and had them in the top 8th. So that versus, Brenda -- sacked at Liverpool having done nothing, one year keeping Swansea in the prem, Koeman the mercenary more than held his own with the mercenary Brenda when he arrived at Everton. Silva was another mercenery who'd won championships and cups in other weak leagues, and bed hopped like Ron Jeremy prior to coming to Everton. Another failure. No more mercenaries for me mate.

Don Alexander
617 Posted 28/04/2021 at 17:57:40
Dazza (#559), Andy makes a suggestion in the posting immediately after yours that may diminish the chances of us unworthy mortals upsetting you, but, given how much trouble you go to to try to educate us all, perhaps in future you can italicize which ever of your comments you deem unarguable/abusive so we all know where we stand.

Tough decision of course, given it's about 50/50 on most of your posts!

Ooh! Nearly forgot!

I'd not sell DCL (if this is enough "football comment" to make my contribution admissible to you).

Have a nice day, or two!

Kieran Kinsella
618 Posted 28/04/2021 at 17:57:47
Tony/Danny

Did you ever see the RS reality show? Sterling grimaced and the Mr Toad lookalike Brenda dragged him out in front of everyone with this ridiculous dressing down, threatening to send him on the next plane home etc. It was all theatre, so over the top but designed to show how he was so tough and wise. Sterling must be laughing looking at his paycheck and trophy haul now.

He also bizarrely did a rant about his opulent childhood where he was fed with a "silver shovel." The bizarre thing was he explained it in a very angry voice, which made me think he had a chip on his shoulder and his family weren't rich but he was over compensating by angrily explaining how rich they were.

He also spent half the series sitting in his living room surrounded by family explaining how he was Dad/Son/Husband of the year Mr Grounded, down to Earth. Then a few weeks later he ditched all that and ran off with a young girl with the surname Hind.

Mike Gaynes
619 Posted 28/04/2021 at 17:58:43
Tony #614, my recollection of the incident was that the bat-wielder was neither Rodgers' son nor a club staffer, but a jilted suitor of the young lady Rodgers was visiting. But I haven't Googled the incident today.

Danny, I do think you're right about Rodgers and his ambitions, which is why I think he'll stay at Leicester until one of the big boys comes calling again. He has a much better chance of building a CL resume at Leicester than he does at Spurs right now.

Dale Self
620 Posted 28/04/2021 at 18:02:23
Kieran, nice summary of Boofing Liverpool but you left out the most excruciating in my opinion, the three envelopes of betrayal. It really had that Larry Sanders look without knowing they were doing it.
Kieran Kinsella
621 Posted 28/04/2021 at 18:02:38
Barry

If we sold DCL 10 times, would it turn out well in the 6-9 range?

Tony Everan
622 Posted 28/04/2021 at 18:03:37
Martin, no chance of us signing any of them, we need to be looking for our own, that’s what Brands is here to do. Grealish will be off somewhere but it will be a Champions League club.

With regards Calvert-Lewin , him and Richarlison have blown hot and cold all season. I think they come in for a lot of unfair criticism since for the whole season it’s really just been on them two to produce the goods. It’s asking too much.

To progress into the top 4 we need four forwards to form an attacking team. Most of the clubs we are trying to overtake have more options and more quality. We need to be adding an experienced striker to the core ‘ forward squad’ and a young aspiring forward too.

Aguero is up for grabs, what a signing he would be added to DCL and Richie. I think he has two or three top years left in the tank. Can Carlo work his magic, you never know as he is settled in the Northwest.

Then a young forward who wants to make his mark and push the others for a place. Kean has done really well in France but I’m not too sure he would replicate that form if we brought him back here. He has a bit more space and time when playing for PSG, in the Premier League the intensity and down the throat nature of the game makes life much tougher for him. It’s time to take the money for him.

Who to replace him with will be an interesting debate. I like what I have seen from Broadhead, it’s hard to say whether he is ready for that promotion. Others will have a more informed idea. If not Brands could find a young up and coming forward with some serious pace to compliment the others.

I think we need that balanced and complimentary squad of four forwards to make real progress from this season.

Stan Schofield
623 Posted 28/04/2021 at 18:04:22
Barry@615: We’re in the process of trying to build an empire, and DCL is part of it.

I’m afraid £80M these days is fuckall for a top striker, and way short for even thinking about empire building, let alone doing it.

It’s to be hoped that those days of grabbing a few bob for one of our top players is behind us. Otherwise, Ancelotti might be thinking what the fuck he’s doing here.

Kieran Kinsella
624 Posted 28/04/2021 at 18:05:33
Dale

Yeah he provided endless ammunition. What a clown

Eddie Dunn
625 Posted 28/04/2021 at 18:09:22
We can ponder whar price we would part with DCL but I think we are at the same stage reached by Martinez with Lukaku. Dom has been running himself into the ground, and the service to him has often been survival rations.
He has been mixing with his new buddies in the England camp. We all know what that does. He has grown his man bun -always a sign that a player is thinking of a bigger stage.
I think the club will have to bring in more quality to keep the likes of DCL, Richie and james on board.
If I was Dom, a lad from Sheffield, I may well think that I have served EFC well and deserve a crack at United.
Stan Schofield
626 Posted 28/04/2021 at 18:22:33
Eddie@625: You may well be right, and if he’s thinking that, then it might be very hard to keep him anyway, and who could blame him? But on the other hand, he might well be thinking about progressing further with Everton provided he’s convinced we mean business and intend further substantial signings. If the latter, then we certainly need to keep him.
Danny O’Neill
627 Posted 28/04/2021 at 18:22:56
Tony, to my point about bringing in an experienced striker to play with, challenge or complement Dominic.

I'd take Aguero in a flash.

Rob Halligan
628 Posted 28/04/2021 at 18:29:13
I think Aguero will end up at Spurs in a part exchange plus cash for Harry Kane.
Ian Horan
629 Posted 28/04/2021 at 18:51:55
Rob Aguero is on a free, but like you say take him and Leon Bailey. Should get Bailey for the Kean money
Tony Abrahams
630 Posted 28/04/2021 at 18:57:51
Mike@619, I remember that it was around the same weekend, that the front pages of the national newspapers were about Ross Barkley, being threatened by a local gangster. Everton lost at Southampton, the year we should have got 4th, and I remember being in work talking to one of the bitterest Liverpudlians I know.

I said Liverpool are going for the league and that shithouse Rodgers, was in a house when the woman’s ex-partner turned up, but he wouldn’t come out and confront him, how’s that stayed out the papers?

He started laughing, and said he’s been carrying on with one of the secretaries at Anfield, (club-staff) and his son found out where she lived an went round with a cricket bat. It made sense, an ex-partner would have probably knocked the door down, and although he eventually left his wife for this woman, he did very well not having it splashed all over the papers, and probably because him or his employees, have the press in their pockets like nickels and dimes, to borrow a phrase from my favourite ever movie!

Rob Halligan
631 Posted 28/04/2021 at 18:58:56
Ian, doesn't matter that Aguero will be on a free, city will be paying spurs the cash for kane. They will use Aguero as bait to entice Spurs to sell Kane to them. Be great if we could entice him to us, but no doubt many on here will see it as "a final pay day, topping up his pension etc" if we signed him.

Though having thought about it, seeing as Aguero will be on a free, city will have no say in the matter as to where he goes!

Chris Williams
632 Posted 28/04/2021 at 19:02:01
Rob,

Also another sick note, injury prone cast off. Just like Delph. Etc

Barry Rathbone
633 Posted 28/04/2021 at 19:02:52
Kieran 621

Hypothetically it is distinctly possible if squad improvement results.

(Oops! I referenced the hypothetical forgetting how much it disturbs you. Try chamomile tea whilst researching the meaning it might help your frantic chewing on what is now a historic old bone)

Rob Halligan
634 Posted 28/04/2021 at 19:04:33
Chris, too old as well!
Chris Williams
635 Posted 28/04/2021 at 19:21:01
Yes Rob, absolutely.

I was thinking of a couple of geriatrics we got off City over the years. Paul Power And Gareth Barry. Both well over the hill, and stole a living off us!

Brian Wilkinson
636 Posted 28/04/2021 at 19:26:01
Not sure who we could get to replace Calvert-Lewin Barry, not for that age or price, especially when we will be losing Moise Kean as well.

We made the mistake of letting Lukaku go and not replacing him.

We need to be building a team around Calvert-Lewin and the likes, not selling them, we got £75 Million plus £15 Million add ons, and that was 4 years ago, for Lukaku, but you think £70 Million for an improving striker who is still only 24 is good value.

He is the only striker we have at the club, by all means let the likes of Bolasie, Besic, Delph, Iwobi, Siggy and the likes go, the only problem is, no one will entertain them.

There is a reason Utd are after Calvert -Lewin, he is a hot prospect and will only get better.

We now need to start building a team around Calvert-Lewin, Richarlison, Digne, Allan, Godfrey, and Doucoure, the mentioned players should not even be concidered about selling.

Mike Gaynes
637 Posted 28/04/2021 at 19:41:16
Rob #628, are you serious? You heard that rumor somewhere?

I'm skeptical about Aguero for us. At 32 he certainly has good years left and his work ethic remains exemplary, but in the past year and a half he's had five extended injuries -- three thigh muscles, two knee problems. I just wonder if all those fouls and all those miles are catching up with him.

But wow, what Dominic could learn from him!

Kieran Kinsella
638 Posted 28/04/2021 at 19:44:55
Rob

My worry with Aguerro is the cost. He's on 230k a week right now, even if he took a 50% pay cut that's 115k a week. He will be 33 in a month, he missed the back end of last season with a knee injury, came back in October, 2 weeks later he was out with a hammy for a month, came back for one week, then he was out with a knee injury for another month. After that he had covid, but since then he's had only four starts and wasn't even selected in the squad for the last two weeks. It's not as if City have an abundance of strikers so that makes me wonder.

When Paul Power signed, he was with a City team being promoted so while I don't know his wages I can't imagine he was on the equivalent of 215k a week. If Aguerro was available for a nominal wage, e.g. 40k or something then maybe but I would worry about limiting our other investment if we spent a lot on his wages.

Also, we always hear the old chestnut of "Reid was injury prone when we signed him," but on the flip side so were ADVM, Whiteside, Gibson, etc. The odds don't favor the dying swan.

Brian Wilkinson
639 Posted 28/04/2021 at 20:00:05
Paul Power was one of the fittest players when he played in the 87 title winning side Kieran, one of our better signings and never let Everton down.
Mike Doyle
640 Posted 28/04/2021 at 20:19:47
Mike # 637] I share your concerns. Aguero is 33 in June - hardly ancient but he has played close to 700 top-flight games (plus internationals). A virtual ever present for 15 years, it’s only in the last couple of years that he’s started to miss games. A great finisher who someone will take a chance on - but I hope we are looking at younger options.
Rob Halligan
641 Posted 28/04/2021 at 20:23:37
Chris # 635. I'm not saying he's too old, I'd have him tomorrow providing he could sort his fitness out.

Mike # 637. I've heard nothing about where Aguero will end up. Just a feeling that's all. I think I've read somewhere that he does want to stay in the premier league though.

Joe McMahon
642 Posted 28/04/2021 at 20:26:09
Henrik Larsson also played well into his 30's including in world cups. My main concern with Aguero is his injury record over the past 3 seasons. But I see him going to another glamour team anyway, not us.
Barry Rathbone
643 Posted 28/04/2021 at 20:33:10
Brian 636

I've no idea who would replace him but presumably that's why Brands is here but I can't believe there isn't someone capable of doing what DCL does not to mention go round the keeper to nail one on ones. (Btw I've heard people suggest that can be coached - it can't. If you can't do it at 11 yrs old it will never come naturally)

Rom has weaknesses but at the time was considered world class what world class striker could we have got as a replacement? I don't see this as a failure of policy just a reality of the situation.

Utds strategy has always been to throw enough shit at the fan in the hope some sticks their fall out rate is huge no ultimate gauge of quality are they.

Chris Williams
644 Posted 28/04/2021 at 20:36:57
Sorry Rob,

I expressed myself badly. I was agreeing with you. I’d have him too. I was just thinking about the possible reaction.

Robert Tressell
645 Posted 28/04/2021 at 20:45:44
Who would realistically replace DCL if he left? The obvious 'ready made' names for me are Tammy Abraham (£35m?), Ivan Toney (£35m?) and Andrea Belotti (£45m?). Possibly Vlahovic at Fiorentina (£50m?), Malen at PSV (£35m?) or Daka at Salzburg (£25m), but they're young and could take a year or two to reach DCL's current level. Brilliant signings if we keep DCL and have time to bed in. Not so good if thrust straight into it.

With £80m burning a hole in our pocket we could be quoted much more than my estimates too. That represents very poor value in my book. Aguero is a lovely idea if he can play games but an expensive waste of time if he can't. He's only played 9 league games this season and scored only one goal. That's not what we need with or without DCL.

Laurie Hartley
646 Posted 28/04/2021 at 22:07:23
On the subject of recruitment, I would keep DCL, stay well away from Aguerro and try to sign Traore from Wolves. That would give us a front three of Richarlison on the left!!, DCL, and Traore on the right.
Barry Rathbone
647 Posted 28/04/2021 at 22:38:50
Kieran

I thought he was ok-ish for us after all it's the easiest position on the pitch if you can't play and he couldn't pass a ball to save his life.

I remember at Leicester the ball broke loose around him as he ventured upfield and they charged passed him as he laboured to turn and within seconds they had scored

Couldn't believe it when PSG come in for him and I bet they're thinking the same tonight.

Derek Thomas
648 Posted 28/04/2021 at 22:48:26
Robert @ 646; Who would replace DCL indeed? We don't need somebody to replace him, we need to keep him and get somebody to support and complement him...or, for that matter for him to complement this other some one, as I've always been of the mind he was a second striker.

A Mick Jones to Allan Clarke, or even Toshsck to Keegan.

Brian Williams
649 Posted 28/04/2021 at 23:20:46
Tony#661.
Could be a delight mate.
Kristian Boyce
650 Posted 29/04/2021 at 00:46:43
Mike, congrats on your Fiver Letter of the Day! It actually gave me a few seconds of confusion as I saw your name and had to mentally check I was reading my email and not on TW.
Kieran Kinsella
651 Posted 29/04/2021 at 03:28:53
Mike

Where do they show serie A in the US now? I used to watch it religiously in the 90s. I’ve a lot of Inter Milan paraphernalia in my house. Seems like an opportune time to revive interest in my second team. My Giuseppe Bergomi shirt still fits — except around the holidays and weekends.

Mike Gaynes
652 Posted 29/04/2021 at 04:18:33
Thanks, Kristian. I love telling that story. A four-foot-tall, 90-year-old Azorean nana dressed all in black, trying to kill me with an umbrella. Always good for a laugh. I still have the scar.

Kieran, a Bergomi shirt??? Way cool. Not many of those around. Do you have a bushy mustache to go with it? Anyway, in answer to your question, ESPN+ shows a lot of Serie A online -- Inter's next game is Saturday morning at 9 Pacific against Crotone.

I also have DirecTV so I can catch occasional games on the Spanish-language channels like Univision and ESPN Deportes. But ESPN+ is your best bet.

Kieran Kinsella
653 Posted 29/04/2021 at 04:24:43
Mike

I would dishonor Giuseppe by growing a moustache. No one can match his no nonsense Sergeant major tache.

Martin Mason
656 Posted 29/04/2021 at 11:33:39
Kieran, I don't underestimate how complex it is when recruiting managers and players when not only basic ability but chemistry matters. Koeman did seem the perfect choice at the time but I think I preferred Sam in the end.

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