Bramley-Moore Dock Stadium gets unanimous planning approval

The Planning Committee have approved the application unanimously. It will take a courageous Secretary of State to call it in for a public enquiry. It would be perverse.

It's not happening.
It's a smokescreen.
Etc etc

Big, positive week for the club. We need that stadium.

I honestly thought, at one point, it wouldn't happen. The former regime led us on a merry dance once too often so my cynicism was through the roof.

Once the minister approves this, work is expected to start in the spring/summer. Does anyone know what the first steps are? Drainage? Reinforcement of dock outer walls? Where can I find the step-by-step details?

Where is Jonathan Tasker???? 😂

In your defence Jonathan your not the only one who thinks this whole thing was pie in the sky.

But still It looks like it's happening, I'm over the moon. 😀

Unanimous vote in favour. To quote the head of the Northern Powerhouse:

"For anyone serious about regeneration in North Liverpool, this was a no-brainer.

"Giving the green light to major shovel-ready infrastructure projects such as this will be key to spearheading a recovery here in the North. Bramley-Moore Dock will create thousands of jobs, unlock billions in economic growth for local communities and open up the city further to the rest of the world.

"This is a project which will help put the city of Liverpool in the economic Premier League it deserves to be in post-crisis."

Off the scale good news for Everton FC. Also fantastic for the local economy. Congratulations to all the team involved . Can't wait to see the JCB's rolling in.

LIVERPOOL CITY COUNCIL PLANNING COMMITTEE- BMD AGENDA ITEM
THE CASE FROM EVERTON
Presentations from DBB (the general case); Colin and Ian (consultation principles; why move; why not renovate GP; alternative sites assessment; design brief (engagement, waterfront connections and materiality, landscape masterplan, investing in city heritage, sustainability, accessibility); delivery and operations; public benefits; overwhelming support.

COUNCILLOR Q AND A
Q's from councillors and A's from EFC. EFC (Colin, Ian etc) had full and ready answers to all questions):
Sandhills / transport.
Consultation incl non-soccer fans.
Jobs, construction.
Parking incl away fans.
Benefit to Liverpool people re jobs.
Joe Hansen – self-declared red – had only one constituent against.
Encouraged collaboration with Unite given benefits of trade unionism.
Environment, water channel, heritage.
Safety given proximity to water.
Disabled fan transport.

COUNCILLOR COMMENTS
Tom Crow (not a councillor?) at length on variety of issues re ecology, energy, transport. Tone sounded as if there might be problems here. Set his issues out as conditions.
EFC responses already addressed in planning application documentation.
Tom Crow: “answered vast majority of my Q's”.

PETER JONES – PLANNING (CASE) OFFICER
Rehearsed in some detail issues and responses re transport, ecology, sustainability, consultation, public benefits (social / economic) v World Heritage site. Issues raised by Tom Crow already addressed as conditions in Peter's report and accepted by EFC. Recommended approval of application.

CONCLUDING COMMENTS FROM COUNCILLORS
All very positive. Overwhelming support. Couched in terms of heritage versus social and economic benefits with latter outweighing former.

THE VOTE
Unanimous approval.
The presentation by EFC, and responses to questions, were superb.
The committee chair did the usual good job of confirming acceptability of responses at each stage in the meeting. Steered the committee to the increasingly-predictable conclusion.

Very concerning.

Can only hope we do a Leicester and buck the overwhelming trend of turning to mush when a new purpose-built footy stadium appears.

Kiss of death they are.

The fact it was approved unanimously is significant in my view. The government should have no need to call it in.

Every councillor spoke in favour, even a Kopite who said Everton are The People's Club! The only concern is how many bat boxes will be needed.

Goodison Park legacy project application unanimously agreed and approved.

Bramley-Moore Dock and Goodison Park plans both approved unanimously – by a fully attended Planning Committee. Congratulations to all involved. :-)

Brent, thanks very much for a very detailed report of the event.

Get Bill out, yes him, to use the spade that gets us moving and on we go, saving up, from today, to buy a new suit for the opening game at Bramley-Moore Dock and get a programme on the day.

Tricia O'Brian, the committee chair, cannot see any reason for the Secretary of State to call it in!

It's all systems go!

In the main due to the vision and drive of one man. Credit where it is due.

Congratulations to everyone at the club for steering the project past this milestone.

Obviously a new stadium is not a panacea. It will not guarantee a great atmosphere any more than it can automatically deliver success on the field. The clubs which have been relatively successful since they moved into their new homes, such as Manchester City, Leicester, Southampton and Brighton, all required time, investment and effective management to achieve improvement on the pitch. I suppose by the end of the current season West Ham might be added to that list despite their many issues concerning stadium design and layout.

I think the only potential fly in the ointment could be the strong objections from Unesco.

Jenrick will have to weigh up the potential for 15,000 jobs, massive inward investment, completely redevelopment and rejuvenation of an area that the public can't currently access, renewed transport infrastructure, and a policy of levelling up the economy of the Northwest against those objections.

The man is a dickhead, but he's also a Tory minister. Which side of him will win, I wonder?>

What a week, what a ffing week!

I'm literally standing here with tears of joy.

That crook Jenrick at the Ministry of Housing is bound to call it in unless he gets his usual bung. And does anyone think the Conservatives care about investment in Liverpool? They'd still rather spondoolicks for Surrey.

I won't believe it until there's a spade in the ground!!!!!

Honestly - are we actually going to employ a company with 1,000 men with spades to build the ground?

If there is a spade in the ground, how do we know it's related to the ground and not some scally digging a hole?

Shit - better not post too much more, the council might not have the answers to these questions and could demand an enquiry.

I stumbled upon a face some of you might recognise here on Twitter

Link

After the last few days, we have all got to believe anything is possible.

Onwards and upwards, Mighty Blues... next step, a trophy.

I turned 55 today. My first 2 birthday presents were off Everton FC. It's not often I've been able to say that.

Thank you all at EFC for the progress made on and off the field in the past few days. Now for consistency on the pitch and who knows how this season will end but it's great that we're still fighting on 2 fronts near the end of February.

What a week for Everton Football Club.

Standby for bitterness from the Reds. Bitterness that will sound, read and smell sweet.

Leicester, Barry? I'm thinking more along the lines of Manchester City, if I'm being honest.

Well done, James.

I've been looking for that and also George's interview last night on Granada.

Colin (4), I think I read that the first stage is to go fishing...

I've been going to Goodison since 1969 and, after the Kirkby farce and stupid ideas like the tunnel island, I am stunned that the amazing new stadium is close to becoming a reality.

After everything Bozo has said about economic recovery after Covid, 'levelling up' and 'build, build, build', they'd be really dumb to call it in. The benefits to the local economy, the restoration of the accumulator tower and the community benefits from the legacy scheme easily outweigh the limited impact on the World Heritage Site.

On top of all that, what else are you supposed to do with a 173-year-old dock? Just hope it doesn't get called the USM Arena! How about Dean Park?

Wonderful news for Evertonians and I believe equally wonderful news for the city. As George says - it'll be a new beginning. I think it is time.

Danny #23,

Already got one (Scouse red living in Henderson NV)

Me (on a WhatsApp group): "Seriously though this is a great thing for both the club and the city."

Him: "Until global warming really kicks in."

They can't accept us being even the remotely little bit successful, can they?

For those worried about sitting somewhere else.. . . some of us remember 1969 to 1971 when they knocked down the old Goodison Road Stand and we had to move from the Park End to the Street End and no idea where the friends went.

Probably most of them are dead now or in their 90s. But if you were the couple who went to the Man City Semi-final in '69 and forgot the key to the locking petrol cap and drove home with a towel over the gauge so you could not see it was on E – hope you are doing well.

Had my first "the Government can still reject it" response Peter.

Firstly, the irony that the Jezzer banner waving Kop can turn to a Tory Government for hope.

Secondly, maybe so, however a Government that got in partly on a "levelling out" ticket turns down a proposal that provides a magnificent regeneration opportunity for a deprived area of a northern city?

It's happening.

Great news. Just got to hope the government don't go, "Oh, because of Covid, we need 6-12 months for this."

Also, what a joke about World Heritage Site etc etc. This is an old, neglected dock; last time I stayed in the Titanic Hotel, I looked over at a decent-sized piece of land and it just looked rubbish. It may have been the heart of the city 100 years ago but these boards and bodies sometimes I think are there to meddle and not actually accept the facts that it's time for a change.

The likes of the walls; yes, they might be lovely but it's just a bloody wall. I would be saying to the digger guys, "Just ram that bit there and hopefully the whole thing will go!'

About time World Heritage got with the program and let us create something that will be there for centuries, much like their precious walls and clock tower.

I'll admit I've always been dubious about this, but this is a good day. Probably not as far down the line as some think...

I thought Bill's comment was interesting: 'another step' in a very long process, doesn't sound imminent to me.

And, there is the small matter of, do we know who is going to pay for it yet? Cos it is going to cost half a billion like. I still can't believe we turned down Joe's loan, cos they were mates rates.

Surely this is just the kind of project which will be needed to "level things up" in the UK and get people back to work after Covid-19.

I can't wait for the day when I can travel over the Irish Sea to watch the Blues in their new home without having to worry about restricted views.

Bring it on!

For those who may be interested in What Might Happen regarding the application from hereon in, see my recently posted article prepared during this morning's deliberations by the Council.

Great news for the club, at long last. Fingers crossed all further approvals will go smoothly.

Reading Brent's report, thanks Brent, it's clear that the club have put together a top class professional team to push through this project, answer all queries etc, and all and sundry should be applauded for that.

As usual, the club releases some good news to try to mask the result at the weekend... oh... hang about!!!!

Good News.

It is massive Project when a aerial view of the site is shown.

What a beautiful week.

Everton stuffing the RS.
The lockdown exit plan.
Blue Pearl crocus bulbs pushing through the winter soil at my place - Goodison Gardens - and the sound of spring birdsong.

A new dawn. can it get any better?

Oh, it just did as Bramley-Moore Dock gets unanimous approval.

Once again, the Mighty Blues rise. We will be part of that famous skyline. Anyone looking at images of our city will always be reminded of us along with those magnificent blue Liver Birds.

Those bitter reds will be fuming (titter) and there could be trouble on the streets of Oslo and Peterborough tonight.

I watched some of the planning meeting. The polemic of Councillor Joe Hanson against Historic England and the dock wall – referencing cholera, slave labour and dead Napoleonic prisoners-of-war – was a thing to behold. From a dyed-in-the-wool red too!

What a great week, lets hope it continues for the foreseeable future.

These Unesco people should be walked off to some caves, dressed in animal skins and told to live there without any appliances until they get the idea that development and change is necessary and good.

Let's hope Bozo's crew don't find any reason to call it in.

I'm stunned how many of our red brethren are so concerned about the potential outcome of global warming. It's great to think that our welfare is so high up their priority list.

Sad about leaving Goodison Park, but excited to be starting a new era at Bramley-Moore Dock in a few years. I cannot fault the commitment of our owner on building a team and a new ground. Great news.

Mike # 45. Poor old Elaine from Peterborough will be pulling her hair out!!

Paul #46 yes Joe Hanson's contribution has to be applauded. And he said it with such feeling.

The city comes before either team.

Re the possible call in, last time it happened, at Kirkby, Liverpool City Council opposed it on retail impact grounds. This time, the Council support it and will be required to argue for it in any public inquiry. A very different situation. So, even if it is called in, I think there is still a good chance it will be approved.

My dad is 87 now and would be beaming at this news on top of the mega win at the weekend. It's a pity that he's got dementia and can't appreciate what a great time it is to be an Evertonian just now. Sad to think of so many Blues who are in the same boat or gone for good and can't enjoy basking in some good news for once.

Rob #50 - if Elaine had any hair left after “Knee-gate”, the last strand was pulled around 7:15pm last Saturday. She's probably joined her husband as a Man U fan by now.

My post at #8 was guessing at the name of somebody named Tom.

Echo says "Green Councillor Tom Crone is not on the committee but is concerned about the impact on the ecology of the area and thinks more needs to be done around discouraging drivers and promoting public transport".

I'll eat Crow.

Rob, Mike.

She can take a bit of comfort that she wont be contributing to the infrastructure through taxes.

Unlike the very generous red lads and lasses of this city.

Anyone know if the money is 'Ring-fenced' yet?

I wouldn't be very surprised if it doesn't get a very quick government approval due to Covid-19. The nation's economy will need a definite bounce once lockdowns are over, and massive building projects like this and the potential for revenue and employment once it's built will be a huge factor.

Saying that, while being a bit left-field, the only thing that I might see causing any delay would be down to what involvement Usmanov has in the stadium. With continued political issues in Russia, and his links with Putin, the government may want some clarification on his relationship with the club. There were rumours of sanctions a few weeks back to Putin allies, and he was named as one along with Abramovich.

Thomas, did you hear her on talkshite and radio 5live after the derby at Goodison? She was hysterical, saying we were a team of thugs but constantly blaming Kevin Mirallas.

Tom Crone was banging on about how concerned he was but it became clear he hadn't read the proposal. He was called out and told to ‘reference section 3 paragraph 2 etc' on just about every point he made. The response was almost passive aggressive in tone. Quite rightly too.

He made some fair points (apart from expecting people to go the match on a bike) but this is part of the regeneration of the entire north of a city and he, clearly a southerner, has no right to object or make demands without being fully prepared.

Lunatics Rob.

There club has many cut from the same cloth

Si, # 58.

When Tom Crone was banging on about bikes, I thought he was referring to motorbikes. Then he referred to a bicycle parking area, similar to the one in Amsterdam, and I thought to myself, "Who the Fuck cycles to a football match"?

Can just imagine all the scallies "Mind yer bike, mister"? Probably be the same ones who will want to mind Brent's pedalo!!

Kristian, a crook like Jenrick is not going to have any concerns on whether or not Usmanov has any involvement in this process. In fact it's more likely to grab his attention.

Great news.

I watched the planning committee meeting today – was interested to learn that we intend to erect 2-metre barriers to prevent fans falling in the dock – anyone else pick up on this?

Also was surprised to see no mention of safe standing/increased capacity (although I may have missed it). I appreciate that may be for another day, but thought it may have got a mention somewhere given quite a bit of focus on access/transport/safety etc.

Hip Hip Hooray!!! The hits just keep on coming.

The plans will now be submitted to the Minister of State for Local Government, Robert Jenrick, and he will approve it and certainly not call it in.

The Council are solidly behind it and objections from Historic England that the plan to infill the dock would “fundamentally change its historic character” and “result in significant harm to its Grade ll significance” are simply ridiculous.

This the big step forward for the club that we have been waiting for and it is going to happen.

I never had any doubts as you can be assured Everton would have every aspect and possible objection covered. Everton did not move their operations into the Liver Building to oversee the project if they thought it was not going to happen.

As for Government approval, it's impossible to think that a project that takes a derelict crumbling area to a state of redevelopment of the North of the City, and acting as the catalyst for prosperity and employment, will be turned down.

And the alternative? Wait for years whilst the site becomes even worse with no guarantee of a new investor.

To turn the application down would be madness and cause uproar with the Liverpool City Council. It's an absolute cert it will be approved by central Government.

A shout for Joe Hanson by the way, we should send him a crate of ale.

Common sense has prevailed at last, and a decision in our favour can only be good all round. I did have reservations secretly, on the grounds of the World Heritage Status argument. Not that I believed in it in this case, but anything with 'World' in it's title suggests, it has to be taken seriously.

Anyone who lives around the Liverpool area, or those who have visited the site, will know full well that in it's present state, it is a dump. If it was that important to the World Heritage people, why hasn't there been any investment before now?

I'm sure our friends across the park will be jumping for joy in the knowledge that we have been given the green light, green being envy! Love it!

Jenrick cannot refer to the potential involvement of a Russian oligarch in the financing of the stadium. It is not a valid planning ground for refusal. If he does so, his decision will not be legal.

Moshiri just needs to make a large donation to the Conservative party and we'll be fine! ;-)

For the attention of Brian Harrison, Brent Stephens, Colin Glassar, John Cook, Phil (Kelsall) Roberts and others wondering about seating arrangements at BMD.

One of the surveys from the club to season ticket holders asked where they would prefer to sit in a new stadium as the club felt it important to accomodate requests for similar seating requests if possible.

World Heritage Sites get maximum protection from 'damage'. But the benefits clearly outweigh any damage. If it was a cathedral, I could understand UNESCO getting upset, but it's a semi-derelict dock which is just going to keep decaying if there's no investment.

Jenrick just has to get a civil servant to write a decision letter and add his scrawl at the bottom. Then he can bang on about being committed to regeneration of northern cities! Ha, ha.

I've no doubt the Government will not just give this the green light, but get right behind it in any way they can. It's a no-cost (to them) opportunity to demonstrate their levelling-up, northern powerhouse credentials.

This is going to happen (assuming Moshiri doesn't put all his money on a donkey in the Grand National).

Can't wait to take my seat for the first game at the new stadium.

Been going to Goodison for over 50 years and I'm not lying when I say I've got a heavy, heavy heart.

The Two Amigos Michael 71.

I am already on.

Derek #69 thanks for that. I think (hope) I replied to that survey.

Pretty sure I asked for them to ensure Dave Abrahams was not in my section!

For anybody who's not heard it, here's what Joe Hanson had to say. An amazing speech.

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/every-word-incredible-defence-evertons-19897608

"There's been great consternation from Historic England about the dock wall. It's not the first time I've said it, but the dock wall was built for one reason and one reason only, to keep the people of north Liverpool out.

"People the other side of the wall were dying of starvation, they were dying of cholera, they were dying of typhoid. That dock wall kept them from getting access to anything that would help them survive.

"Part of that dock wall was built by Napoleonic prisoners of war, slave labour. Napoleonic prisoners of war died building that wall, everybody in Historic England is falling over themselves to protect something, or part of something, that was built by slave labour - who died during the process.

"Are we proud of that? Of course we're not, but it's part of our heritage.

"It's vitally important for our kids to get good, quality work - and that's what Everton will provide"

Brilliant.
Inspirational.
My kind of politician. He would get my vote every time.

A great week for the club! Lots of nice comments from other fans after the BBC Sport article. Just watched again the video virtual fly through on YouTube. I know it's marketing but it still gets a tingle in the spine.

So with the recruitment of Moshiri, Brands, Carlo and now the stadium news, is it possible that Bill is at last getting the hang of football club ownership? (ducks for cover).

While praise is rightly heaped on those involved, let's not forget a certain Dan Meis, without whose inspiration and design work, we would have struggled to garner such heavy support from non-Evertonians.

We have to give immense praise to Mr Moshiri, a massive day for our club and the city of Liverpool. Many on here were doubting his commitment, but he has shown what this club means to him.

Typical, get beaten in the derby and conveniently we have a stadium update to distract from... hang on...

Great news. There has been vast amount of work put into this proposal by the club and the engagement politically and publicly has been excellent and highly professional. I'm very impressed – and very excited.

Let's get this approved and get hoarding up.

Who was hired by whom, Richard Duff?

Agree, but credit goes to Mr Moshiri as Christy rightly calls out.

I was watching the meeting this morning with my 4-year-old grandson and I explained it was our new ground to be built. It was perfect timing as the artist's drawings were on screen.

I promised him I would take him there as soon as it's finished (my 8-year-old granddaughter has already been to Goodison).

He jumped off my knee and went running off shouting 'I am so excited, Grandpa!' Brought a tear to my eye. I just hope we have a team he will enjoy watching!

This is brilliant news for the club and for the city. So pleased we will be close to the Mersey, the pool of life.

Fantastic news.

Like others, I am very fond of Goodison with loads of fantastic memories (good and bad) and will miss the old lady dearly. But, time to move the club forward and into a new blue era.

Can't wait to see the blue Phoenix rise from the dock and cheer on the best club in the world at the best stadium in the world with the best supporters in the world

COYB!

Ps I see there are reports on social media that Mr Moshiri will back Carlo to the hilt in the summer transfer window. If true, things just get better and better

It's going to happen isn't it?????

Sorry but after the Kings Dock fiasco set us back 20+ yrs and then Destination Kirby, I'll only be a believer when the first spade goes in the ground.

He will back him to the hilt, Neil. It would make no sense to do anything different.

A big challenger for next season's top 4 in my opinion. The good times are just around the corner.

Thomas #86, great to see that we have an owner who clearly means business and stands by his word.

News about the stadium obviously a factor and yes, I agree about the top 4 target for next year.

I wonder if Carlo can convince Richarlison to stay another season?

Colin #72

I and many thousand others Blues share the same sentiment. 15 October marked 26 years since my first visit to the hallowed turf and while I don't go frequently, I will miss the place and the history there. Glad to see the legacy project is really looking to build on our well-grounded legacy in the community.

Depending on when the stadium gets completed, my son should be old enough to make his first (and possibly only) pilgrimage to Goodison in our final season (and I'm sure his grandfather would love to accompany us and make it three generations. Right, Phil Kelsall Roberts?). Hopefully to see us parade the league trophy!! ;-)

It is Neil. We now have a serious owner after all the years of false promises.

I don't think there will be many players looking to leave off their own back, mate. New stadium, world-class manager, decent basis for a very good squad. Exciting times...

When I say 'exciting times', I meant for all Evertonians. I presumed the TW site would be in meltdown.

Is anyone not happy with this news?

Begining of a new chapter as the door slowly closes on another. Exciting news pending final sign-off by the government. Don't think it will hit any of us leaving Goodison until the final few matches, certainly going to be an emotional one.

It feels great Thomas, no doubt about it.

Although I am not sure whether he is a good fit for us, I also wonder how Moise Kean will react at the end of his loan?

Nice comment on the BBC website regarding the passing of the planning approval:-
Comment posted by Walkeden, today at 16:32

My father (Gordon Lee ) worked at EFC from 1977 to 1981... every year since 1981 the club have invited dad to the Xmas party, sent him a Xmas card. 35 years after he left my mother passed away and EFC sent two wreaths one from the current players and one from the board. Goodison/EFC will always be special to our family I just hope my father is well enough to visit the new stadium...
God bless EFC

Richarlison or Ancelotti, Neil?

Brendan, I was about to post that also. It's a lovely post.

Daniel @85, I'm a cynical old bugger, and even I'm excited now. It's gonna happen. (At last!)

Brent (74), you're in my section now, in The Upper Bullens, when we get the nod to go back I'll be giving you a visit with six of my mates!!!

I can't wait to go to this wonderful ground.

Thanks for posting that link, James (21).

I think I'm developing a bit of a man-crush on George.

Dave, I'm also in the Upper Balcony. I've looked out for you a few times but haven't clocked you yet. I've got a vague image of a tall guy from one of the TW booze-ups.

Thomas #93, Ancelotti every time for me mate, how about you?

#92 says it all about EFC.

Brent, that was Terry Abrahams not Dave! :-)

Me too, Neil.

Best manager since Kendall the first time.

Derek- not sure. An ugly sod?

Brent (98), I'm right by one of the entrances J196, think that's the seat number, long time since I've been with this lockdown. We'll have a drink together when we get back, you'll have to pay for them. I'm very superstitious I never take money to the match with me, feel like we'll lose if I do, I know you'll understand!!

This is great news. Still can't figure out how they'll fill that dock and make it sturdy enough to hold the weight of the stadium. Engineering marvel for me.

My main take from the fly over video was, "Oh neat! They have electric generating windmills on the water front."

Still can't figure out why the entire USA isn't lined with those electric generating windmills about ½ a mile out off the entire east-coast shoreline.

Anyway, fantastic news! Club's really moving forward.

Can we pat Moshiri on the back now?

Agreed Thomas. The most confident I have felt for a long time.

Dave I'd love to buy you one. Well do that hopefully.

Brent (107),

It will be a pleasure.

Dave #104, is that what went wrong at Anfield that night? Had a bob or two in your pocket?

Jamie #105, the weight will be no problem. We'll just buy smaller players and go full Barcelona. No more big units like Keane and Mina.

Great idea on the East Coast windmills. Make a fortune selling electricity to Texas, eh?

Mike #109, good job we kept Bernard then.

Anthony # 63,

The comment of having a 2-metre barriers to stop fans falling in the dock, that may be the end for the away fans and could get lowered.

Congratulations to the CEO and Chong for their presentation and to Mr. Moshiri and the rest of the board for continuing in the progress of Everton FC and their fans.

Never trust any Government, no matter what party they represent, but I can't see anything but a positive quick response and allow construction that will help the whole of Liverpool employment industry.

Eleven Bernards. Problem solved.

Jamie, only 10 to go

Quite seriously, in the tail-end (surely??!!) of a pandemic, with major countries having written hot checks on the backs of the taxpayers to keep economies strong, how in the holy hell would you not approve this massive, job-generating construction project?

If this gets called for a public inquiry (think that's the term?) then England is seriously ass-backwards. No offense, I don't mean to be crass or rude or brazen. I just can't figure out how in the world, in the economic climate we find ourselves in, you could reject this project?

It would be utter insanity.

It's happening. It's going to be beautiful. The entire world will see it and raise the Everton profile to heights unseen.

When the hordes of fans come, please remember I'm not bandwagon jumping. 😜

That along with a lot more trade deals with America, Jamie, opening up our shipping lanes, now we are on the right side of the country to hopefully benefit once again!

Anyone know what the biggest ever attendance was at Goodison Park?

You may be surprised with the answer.

Last comment, but a question.

I know this has been raised before, but if someone can take some time to answer I'd appreciate it.

All roads T into the river. Is this not going to be an absolute traffic nightmare on game days? It looks like it's a quagmire waiting to happen?

If I lived there, I'd not even try to drive in. Public transit all day long to get to the stadium surely? It looks like it could produce New York / DC levels of congestion.

Jamie 114

Been having a similar discussion on a parallel thread. There is a reasonable chance the application will be called in for a public inquiry.

That doesn't mean it will ultimately be rejected but, given the World Heritage Status and the influence of those objecting, the government will be under pressure to take it to the final scrutiny.

Mike (109), that might have been part of it, but I think a clown was the main reason that night, if the goalie who played on Saturday had played like that on the night we both silently cursed him, well I did, we would have gone home a whole happier, he's partially made up for that clanger but still owes us!!

Jamie - fair point. But, for daytime games at least, BDM is about 1.5 miles from the mainline station in the city centre - and so access and egress is pretty easy. The return journey may be a bit tight for evening kick-offs though.

Secondly, being close to the city centre, the stadium is close to several main arterial routes into the city. Off-street parking is fairly limited currently, but I imagine local businesses, schools etc will open up their premises for parking, much as currently happens at Goodison.

Brian #116, the stock answer is the 78,000 we had against our neighbours. Your question sounded like a loaded one though.

Dave @104. I'll have to remember that one!

Paul and Graham, thank you both.

I'll look for that other thread later this evening, Graham.

Colin # 4 - it's in the Echo
Link

Full respect and thanks to Farhad and well done, Bill, Denise and Colin. This place will be seen from all points on the river and become our iconic home. Let's enjoy Goodison Park while we can.

I assume Brands will in charge of the fish transfer element

Terry, well said

Interesting that in Quest Channel 12 is an hour long prog on the new White Hart Lane and its construction etc. Wonder how ours will shape up etc???

Graham @ 118 - I share the same fear every time I see Jenrick's face - however - this Government had the front to break International Law during the final throes of the Brexit debacle - so shoving two fingers up at Unesco should be a piece of piss for them shouldn't it?

While I'm still capable maybe I'll sail up to Liverpool at the start of the season, berth there, get a season ticket, watch all of the games and then head back South for the summer.

It is, Neil :-)

I think there was in access of over 2 million Evertonians, who attended the Bayern Munich game, or at least said they were there.

Sadly It was one of only 4 games I missed that season, not through choice but hardship for that week, with lack of funds.

Am I bitter? Too right I am.

I will be very surprised if this Government, desperate to progress a ‘build back better' agenda, overrides the very strong local support for this application. To call it in for a public inquiry purely because of questionable heritage considerations would be perverse.

Nimbyism is an issue in well-heeled Tory constituencies but not in this part of Liverpool. Exactly the opposite in fact, people are desperate for the investment and the jobs which will follow it.

Ha ha, very good Brian. Almost that many went to Rotterdam.

I was one of the lucky 50,000 to go to the Bayern game, I feel for you - tough reason to miss it.

3½ years and counting!

I hope it's a spectacular construction and not some cheap, prefabricated, plastic lego over an ugly concrete car park style cost-cutting job.

A lot of modern stadiums look good from afar, but are far from good.

This could be a great place to go anytime, with decent family restaurants, pubs, walking and cycling paths linking it to the city and other public places.

There's enough room and scope to think about public outdoor events, markets, arts and other fun sports events etc.

Just one disappointment: there doesn't seem any plan for a Prince Rupert Tower.

I think Historic England are trying to justify their existence by making noises – the north docks have been crumbling into the Mersey for decades and they did sweet fuck-all to halt the decline. Now they want to protect the eyesore that's been left behind.

Heritage is worth preserving if it has something to say but not simply because it happens to be old.

Deliverance, hopefully soon to be a new era for Everton FC, great news and the mega marathon of years, in terms of decision-making, will be finished and be granted by the government. This can be a seismic change of fortunes for The Toffees, happy days soon.

But the next job is to take out Soton, and Mr Ed's sidekick, Ralph H, whose on par worse than Mr Ed in terms of excuses and blowing smoke up his own arse.

UTFT!

A massive month ahead, but the next game counts most.

Paul, I wish you'd used a different word to "deliverance".

I now have to deal with an image of a hapless Ned Beatty being mercilessly buggered by a rampant Hill"Bill"y focussed only on his own gratification and to hell with the real world!

What could possibly go wrong? Cheers pal!

We shouldn't wonder why English Heritage raise objections to a project in Liverpool. Look at the trustees: all London-based with one at Castle Howard. As for the Tories approving it, only Heseltine tried to do anything for Liverpool.

I just hope I live long enough to see the Stadium built and the Blues back where they belong – top of the League.

According to the Echo today, Jenrick will give the Government's decision by 17 March...Here looking forward to a great St Patrick's Day!!

The Secretary of State often announces that he will be taking more time to come to a conclusion and announces an extension to the 21 days. Given the complexity of the application, I think it is likely that an extension will be announced in this case, so don't hold your breath anyone.

If we are apparently over the big hurdle of local planning etc why would the government want to delay it any more when they are screaming for some positive good economic news? Let's drain the dock and drain the colour in the faces of them envious shower over the road. Coyb – the giant awakes.

The Secretary of State has to explain his decision, which will need a detailed analysis of the application. Given how long it took the application to get to the planning committee, understanding it all won't be a 10-minute job.

With Unesco involved, there are also international implications, so this decision will need to be very carefully considered. Hopefully lots of MPs are bending Jenrick's ear to make the right decision.

https://youtu.be/2XBBCy04tGg

George @139

You have looked up the trustees of English Heritage, the organisation that is responsible for the maintenance of historic buildings such as Stonehenge and Dover Castle.

The commissioners of Historic England appear to be drawn from a wide range of people from business and academia; the chairman is the only member of both organisations.

It does not alter the fact that Historic England has completely misread the value of turning a derelict site with no hope of restoration into a massive asset for the region. I have no doubt that Robert Jenrick will ignore their views and approve the stadium.

This illustrates the ridiculous problems we have in this country with getting anything done. Major projects cost many times the costs in other European countries, and take years longer, with tens of millions or more spent on lawyers and quangos before a brick is laid.

Surely even the dogs in the street know this is a derelict site of no intrinsic value, historic or otherwise. No, not in this country, with so many snouts in the trough.

Has anyone noticed the fact there is a massive sewage farm right next door to the new stadium?

The smell has to have been taken into consideration alongside the ammo for back page headlines and stick from that lot when results don't go our way.

Surely there will be a plan in place to eliminate or reduce odur's in the air around the ground?

John, no smell from the works apparently.

Anyway, the rs fans will be at Bramley-Moore Dock at times – that'll mask any smell from the waste disposal works.

John,

We have played across the parks length away from a sewer for over 100 years.

Brent, a mate of mine works for UU and he said it absolutely stinks at Sandon water treatment works.

The sewage works will be next to the away fans so no worries! Anyway, contrary to some comments, I've never noticed any smells when I've been around there.

I am not very good at posting links so a bit of a request to those posters more techno minded.

There is for once a very good step-by-step stage guide in the echo, with images, starting from Stage 1 filling in the dock, right up to final stage of laying the pitch, each with an image and what they are using to construct.

Can anyone either add the link here, or even better, if the very techno people, could copy the images and the wording for a fresh article, I am sure posters would really enjoy and understand the step-by-step guide.

Have to say one of the best articles and information I have seen for a very long time.

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/new-images-show-how-everton-19907321

There you go Brian

Brian, I think you mean this one?

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/new-images-show-how-everton-19907321

FFS, Thomas beat me to it!!

You're a keeper, Rob.

I was a fleet-footed winger.
Rapid

Thomas (149),

That is actually true, when Liverpool's Spion Kop was being converted from all standing to all seating, it was reported in The Liverpool Echo that the Kop was built over a main sewer. A mate of mine said it must have been the only sewer in the world where the rats were on top of it instead of in it!!

Your mate was right, Dave.

Cheers Rob, and Thomas.

Dave #157, here is the info of when the Kop fell in the sewer:

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/nostalgia/kop-collapse-meant-liverpool-started-11864286

I'm sure the hot dogs and fried onions will mask anything from next door so we've nothing to worry about.

Thanks for those links, Thomas & Robert @ 153 & 154 – I am really glad they got rid of the car park between the stadium and the river that was in the original plans.

It would have spoiled the view from the river (and for George McKane 😉).

John (160), thanks for that link John, when I tell Red fans about that story they think I'm on a wind up, mind you some of them have never been on the Kop sitting or standing.

Your welcome Laurie.
Looks good eh mate

Hi Brian [116],

My initial thought was, when King George and Queen Mary visited in 1913, but I've checked it out and the crowd is given as 69,000, more than 9,000 less than the 78,299 attendance for the 1948 derby game. It's obviously a trick question but one I've never heard of, I'd interested to learn the answer.

John #164, see Brian's post #131 for the answer

Don@138, spot on, cracking film, that was and that banjo player scene... daunting now.

I'll refer to this project as “Salvation”Everton's, promised land, by the Mersey.

Imagine match night the sky will be Blue for miles around, light up the Liver Building and Light up BMD, and eradicate the nesmesis of our old ground, for good.

It will be sad to leave, G P, but this is the next step in the evolution and transformation of EFC, as a football club and business.

Well that's what I hope, and for a return to better times for EFC.

Great times to be an Evertonian, and it's great for the young Evertonians, and hopefully genuine hope for all of us, to be involved in this next stag3 of Everton's move.

But now to beat Soton.

Hi Neil [165] don't those sort of questions crack you up?

There was a very real threat of a mega Chinese deal at the piggery coming in to oust the Yanks and their first remit was obviously the Bramley-Moore Dock project. That never happened and the future and upshot of it is us as the dominant Catterick days while they revert back to the pre-Shankly days with their green envious noses pressed up against the what might have been Goodison on the water dynasty. Well that's my take on it for my kids and grandkids to enjoy when I'm long gone!

Sorry, John Snr, I do envy those who were lucky enough to attend the Bayern game. Of all the games to miss, this will hang around my neck until I am pushing up daisies.

I do not regret that week, I did not have the funds, the one week my parents simply did not have the money either, but I would never have it any other way, or ever throw a strop.

I was lucky enough to have a roof over my head and food on the table, and not a day goes by where I do not think of sacrifices my parents made for their children. If I knew then the significance of that game, and could have it again, but leaving my parents short, I would happily miss the game again.

Hi 169] Hi Brian apology not necessary, it's just that I was wracking my brains trying to think of a reason for a larger crowd than the 78,299. the only possibility I could come up was the Royal visit in 1913. I admire your attitude to the game, because as important as it may be to us, there are more important things in life, that's one of the things I have learned over the years.

Hopefully, Uncle Alisher has greased Jenrick's palms as this guy appears as bent and susceptible to a backhander as any typical Tory minister.

I'd advise any Blue to take a look into this greaseball's track record and history and wince. That our future ground's fate lies in such a dodgy Tory is a concern.

Anyone know if his former boss & crook Esther McVey is a Blue or not? Failing that, Moshiri & Usmanov need to adopt some iffy Russian cash tactics here.

Can someone tell me where Historic England and the other objectors where when the sewage works next door where approved ?

Phil @171,

Can you explain why you believe that Robert Jenrick is bent and Esther McVey is a crook?

Ian @173,

Just for starters, here you go:

Housing secretary should have resigned after approving Tory donor's ‘contentious' property scheme, anti-corruption expert suggests

Robert Jenrick admits Israeli billionaire he had meeting with is family friend

Just a little off-topic, seen an old clip of All Around My Hat by Steeleye Dan, fascinated by the singer Maddy Prior, I checked her up on Wikipedia.

Lo and behold... her father was the co-writer for Z-Cars series.

Steeleye Span! Steely Dan were good! Totally different American band.

Hi John #170.
Talking about crowded Goodison Park their are 2 cup games I remember going to but don't remember much about them 1 Blackburn Rovers and the other was Charlton Athletic. Another game I remember was against Burnley I believe R.Pointer was playing for them. It must have been around Christmas time as I remember going up to Burnley a few days before and got crushed trying to get in, then a couple of days later we played them at Goodison and I had no problem getting in, it must have been better organized, watched the game in my normal place in the Glady's Street end and was surprised to read that there was over 74,000 at the game.

Just imagine if you came in by sea to Liverpool, the first thing you noticed was the three Graces, and no matter were you live now, you thought I am home.. In the future I believe the first thing you see will be Everton's New Home.

Bill (#177), it's GWLADYS Street. Without an apostrophe.

Hi Bill [177] I was serving in Cyprus at the time of the Charlton Athletic cup tie January 4th 1959, you're correct the attendance was 74,782, I've been told it was quite a foggy night. The Burnley games that you've mentioned were on Boxing Day [Monday 26th], and the following day [Tuesday 27th. [1961] I took my Young Lady to both games we won 3-1 at Turf Moor and lost 3-0 at Goodison. We viewed the home game from the paddock, and it was only after the game had finished, that I learned that Jimmy McIlroy had gone off injured, following an incident with Billy Bingham. My mates stayed in the pub too long for the home game and were locked out, one of them claimed that there was a mounted policeman controlling the queue at the chip shop, the attendance that day was 74,867

Hi John Thank you for your reply. I have done some checking up and found the Blackburn Rovers game was on 29 January 1958. I was 17 then. Another piece of information I found was there were 16 games at Goodison Park over 70,000. The earliest is the one you mentioned against Liverpool, 18 September 1948. 78,299. The last game I can find was also against Liverpool in the old First Division, 22 September 1962, 72,488. Wonder how it got so crowded after that with 50,000 crammed in?

Wow, those attendances are amazing. I knew about the highest one but I didn't realise there had been so many over 70,000.

Biggest crowd I ever encountered, I think, was 56,000 plus v Bolton in the League Cup semi-final 2nd leg. Street end was packed that night as tight as I had ever seen it.

John,

That Burnley home game, I was also in the Paddock that day, Street End, I remember all the kids being passed over our heads, so they could sit on the running track and watch the match and be looked after by the St. John's Ambulance guys where necessary. Loads of them ringing the pitch.

I remember standing there at the end of the game, miffed, and looking at the goal frame at the Park End with three big muddy marks, where we'd hit the woodwork in the second half.

John,

I also reckon both matches were played December 1960, not 61. We'd not long moved from Walton to Orrell Park, and instead of a 5 minute walk home it took a fair while, but I felt better after it.

It wasn't until the news headlines on the telly later that night we knew how huge that crowd was. But it didn't help my disappointment. We probably had cold turkey and ham for tea with cheese and pickles. With mince pies for afters.

Hi Chris [184] you're correct, I'll have to use my 'get out of gaol' card and claim that age is clouding my vision, but at the current rate I can't imagine many will accept it.

John,

You're preaching to the converted. I'm only 73 so I quite understand. Senior moments tend to start joining up a bit don't they?

Hi again Chris [184] thanks for being so understanding, I think that there are likely to be more slip-ups in the future, but I'll do my best to keep them at an acceptable level. Whatever reputation I may have had, is in danger of blowing up in my face. I quite often say to my Young Lady, " I feel like an old man" and she replies " You are an old man" that's a confidence boost isn't it?

Wore my new winkle-pickers to that Boxing Day Burnley game – 12 years old (me, not the shoes).

Not as old as either of you John and Chris but do you both remember an FA Cup replay against Wolves in 1967 when the official attendance was given as 57,000 but there were many more inside Goodison following the crowd forcing open the gates at the Gladwys Street end. Fans were cascading down the terrace and being catapulted over the arcs behind the goal. At least that's how I remember it from my safe vantage point in Goodison Road. There had been 56,000 at the previous round - also a replay, against Burnley.

Hi Ray [189] I was at both Wolves FA cup games, at Molineux when Gordon West made that tremendous save from Ernie Hunt in a 1-1 draw, and Goodison for the 3-1 victory. Followed by the 1-0 victory over Liverpool in the fifth round, I intended to go to Nottingham for the Forest Cup game, but that was the weekend that we moved to Skelmersdale, it was also the weekend that Foinavon won the Grand National. The attendance for the Wolves replay is recorded as 62,020, and because my spec in those days was behind the Park End goal, I have no knowledge of the scenes you witnessed.

John

I was at that Nottingham Forest game, and another miserable experience. Ian Moore hat trick, the last goal when the referee had the whistle in his lips, like a pinball of the goal frame about three times.

I remember the look of disgust on Ray Wilson's face at the end as he booted the ball into the Trent.

Hi Chris [191 a mate of mine told me that the game changed when Joe Baker went off and Storey-Moore moved into the centre.

I know that Andy Rankin came in for some stick, but I've recently seen some footage and I don't think it was fully deserved. I suppose that like Jordan Pickford the goalie is easy to blame; in the main, he has nobody to come to his rescue. A team can lose 1-0 and his mistake is highlighted; it seems that no-one takes into account the number of chances that the strikers squander.

John Senior (180) where were you stationed in Cyprus again? I was there in the mid 90s; yes when we stayed up against Wimbledon and my good wife found me in the storm drain outside the house. I just about made it home but clearly gave in once I was comfortable enough!!

I was at Ayios Nikaloas.

Hi Danny [193] I was stationed in Limassol, at a R.E.M.E. workshop but I wasn't a mechanic I was a driver, I served from April 1957 until July 1959, we were confined to camp for the first 12 months when not on duty, and when we were out we had to have an armed companion riding shotgun. Being a workshop and a mile or so from the sea, we didn't have the dangers that the infantry soldiers faced every day up in the Troodos Mountains. There were many squaddies who lost their lives during my term on the island, but fortunately our location gave us protection.

Very different times, John. I understand the turbulent history of Cyprus, which I guess it is difficult for many to realise given its status as a sunshine holiday destination nowadays.

I played football for the Army and Combined Service's (Cyprus) teams down that end of the Island at Episkopi and Akrotiri. Not quite Bramley-Moore Dock or Goodison, but nice pitches nonetheless, if somewhat rock hard!!

Also a staging post en-route to further eastern climes in my later career.

Hi again Danny [195] we used to get our food rations from Episkopi we never gave it it's full name, we referred to it as Eppi. I spent a month in Akrotiri hospital following a football accident. We slept in three-man tents, while Akrotiri being an Airforce base, had proper billets equipped with washing machines, luxuries we could only dream of, we washed everything by hand.

Bill (#177), Ray Pointer was a good bloke and an excellent striker. I met him in the 70's by chance, at his home, as a result of a pal of mine being his pal. There was his 5 year-old son there, scriking all the time. 20 years later that scriker was my colleague John, another top bloke with not quite so much talent as a footballer though!

Derek@176, well spotted on my typing error.

Ian @ 173. Take a look at their track records when in/out of office and the associated dubious conduct. Draw you own conclusions, I have mine.

This is a gift to the government. At a time when the level of country debt (which of course WE will all have to pay back) is fucked, why the hell would they risk pushing this huge investment back say a year or even risking it completely? Rushi Sunak needs to be putting a call into Jenrick to say "Don't you even fucking dare."

The pandemic hopefully has a silver lining for us Blues.

Well I'm getting excited now, just hope my son finds a love of football so I can take him - he just doesn't care for the game unfortunately

With Liverpool set to become a Freeport (according to the chancellor) surely that means BMD will be the jewel set bang right in the middle of our soon to be Hong Kong skyline?

Colin #202

Not only will BMD be the jewel in the crown of our magnificent skyline - but we also have our HQ at the Liver Buildings.

We need a new song for the Merseyside Derby.

Something like, "**** off to Anfield, the (waterfront / city / skyline) is all ours"?

That'll upset our bitter and precious neighbours (not that it takes much!)

I think we need an updated banks of the Royal Blue Mersey song, especially with the passing of St. John, and us moving to the banks of the Mersey.

Any budding song writers out there.

I see Liverpool was confirmed as a Freeport in the Budget today. Other places like Teeside the same.

It's all part of the levelling up policy for the less prosperous regions. It's expected to generate all sorts of jobs, inward investment etc.

Bodes well for BMD hopefully

We could become the north's equivalent to Manhattan. Eat yer hearts out, mancs!!

Tonight, Robert Jenrick has finally bowed to pressure and called in the Cumbria coal mine application, even though it has been approved locally. It took just over a month for the governmet to make this decision.
I really hope this doesn't set a precedent.

Allen, some in Cumbria want the mine because it's jobs for a poor region.

Our lying, muppet PM was elected promising rejuvenation of poor areas, he tacitly thereby admitting such many areas had been allowed to fall way behind prosperity by previous Tory governmental indifference.

To win the election he also promised to make the UK and the world beyond way greener, by legislation

He then found himself hosting, this November, a worldwide conference including the leaders of over 200 countries to discuss ways to curtail the climate crisis.

Hopefully soon we'll hear him try to explain how a massive new coalmine is a conducive part of this necessary worldwide plan.

But in the meantime I'm confident that the loss of thousands of Cumbrian jobs (because when it comes to a choice between his own perceived worldwide credibility or jobs for the needy north it's no contest to him) will mean that BMD is approved, if only to allow him to blunder on in his self-aggrandising style.

How about oh to hell with Liverpool and their tin mine. Embarrassing our city and our blue sky line and we'll drink our champagne by the titanic on the banks of the royal blue Mersey ( sorry been at the blu nun !!

I think we're expecting our answer on the Stadium next Wednesday, so not long now hopefully!

Shamrocks all round if the right decision is made!