Super League falls apart as English clubs withdraw

Thank you Everton for firing the first shot.

Wouldn't affect City and Utd much, but Chelsea, Liverpool and Spurs would be 5, 6 and 9 points behind us respectively and would have very little chance of finishing in the top 4.

Enough to ensure that 4 of them can't reach the champions league this season.

Unfortunately I'd be surprised if they were punished but I'd love to see points deductions and Leicester winning the title again as a consequence. Everton in the champions league (the real one) would be fine by me too.

And who are those 14% on YouGov supporting this albatross?

liverpool will be making a statement this evening

A few there with heavy gearing and consequent massive.debts. Some struggling with COVID. Those issues remain if all this collapses. Plus all trust gone.

So what next?

In the meantime go and fuck yourselves

Mike Gaynes made a killing on the shares when they rose by 8.5% yesterday

I agree entirely with the sentiments Chris Williams expresses in his final paragraph.

You weighed them. You measured them and you labeled them

Let's hope he keeps up the onslaught!

This whole ESL mess was caused solely by greedy billionaires who never bothered to understand our working class culture and each one will have to resign, or face ignominy and hatred from fans if they ever attend a game again.

Oh and Mike was playing y'all. He was talking it up to get into a solid short position. Look out below!

But kudos to Liverpool and their owners for hilariously enhancing the entertainment by impossibly negating the legacy of winning the PL and CL in just a couple of days - what utter fuckwits.

Here's hoping the authorities really get stuck into them now.

Sweet FA.

They'll probably put it down to "populism" amongst "legacy fans".

Shame, this was such an opportunity for a reset. Instead, UEFA will see it as a chance to solidify their position, which means pacifying these parasites.

Good job I can hardly be arsed these days.

I await the news of Red Shite resignations.

The distribution of TV finances in the Prem is amongst the most equitable in Europe, but these same clubs - led by our neighbours, have been trying to change that as well. It's not about them earning more, it's about suppressing challenge.

But it's too late for root and branch reform. The trickle down effects have wrecked the leagues below the Prem as well.

The Pandemic was just the cover these charlatans needed.

Surely there should be some sort of punishment for those clubs!!!! They must NOT get away with it that easy!!!

But its always nice to see confirmation

Bilbao is a peculiar situation as they represent the autonomous Basque region. A little bit of politics creeping in there.

Greed can trump judgement. It happens a lot in business

The counter measures to these clubs, needs to be very clear and decisive. No mercy to these traitor clubs, regardless if they do change their stance on this circus venture.

This can't be allowed to happen again.

Perez after seeing his interview on the news this morning clearly has other objectives, get rich quick, screw and forget the rest of football.

Interesting to see the feedback from the EPL captains meeting tomorrow, being chaired by Henderson.

I sense some thing across the park, is gonna happen and perhaps across all the traitor clubs, there will be a players revolt.

Everton has shown class, integrity, humility and the respect of a proper football club.

Well done Everton.

Instead of outcry they pushed it through in the Monday when everyone was moaning about the super league.

Not a single news outlet has mentioned this and they won't.

Instead it's quite how lucky we are to have the Champions league again even with these essentially closed shop new rules.

There needs to be a European ban or wiping of their coefficient, this won't happen.

The clubs and Uefa got exactly what they wanted all along

Maybe theyre waiting for the League to fail so that the contract is effectively frustrated and they get out that way like the sniveling gobshites they are.

The “Greedy Six” have tarnished their brands long term.

The other clubs in the league should forever use this to their advantage. Any neutral now will have the choice of supporting a real football club or an anticompetitive franchise wannabe. We should never let them live it down.

I do like the idea that Michael has @56., deduct 100 points from them all and let the greedy 6 fight it out for relegation.

What delicious uplifting news. That didn't take long. Folding like a house of cards now.

It strikes me that a number of them stacked their whole stake on the roulette wheel zero and lost and are now running from the casino as if it were on fire.

Further resignations by the suits who endorsed this to follow I fancy, leaving many of this forever-tainted 'Dirty Dozen' in a potentially very precarious position.

The respective national, continental and world federations still need to punish them for their Machiavellian deceit. An insincere 'sorry' isn't enough.

Hit the bastards hard and show them that they cannot rule English and European football.

The danger of echo chamber rationale and the hubris it provokes in full effect with these arrogant blockheads.

If you want to make a good decision ask opinion of people who are against your notion THEN (AND ONLY THEN) make a decision

As for the RS, Spurs, Utd and Arsenal - deduct 10 points plus ban them from Europe next three seasons. That might not be much of a punishment for Spurs and Arsenal but it'll kick the other two fuckers where it hurts!

Owners are not to blame! Top level football is very, very expensive. Owners are business people trying to make their business better and more successful. Us the fans must take some responsibility. More and more comes at a price. The naivety of owners is not understanding the culture of football and what fans want. This could be all over by tomorrow?

The clubs involved will have to get some good legal advice but in the end this whole debacle will soon be forgotten.

I'd like to see a simple 2 season ban from European competition but that won't happen.

At best I can see suspended fines and threats.

..carry on.

If we want European football we will have to earn it the hard way.

They should be heavily fined £100m each and the money distributed to the lower leagues, deducted 50 points and banned from Europe for 3 years.

They can't get off with a slap on the wrist they must be be made accountable and their clubs fined the equivalent of what they were going to take away from the EPL. And the other tournaments.

No mercy and total condemnation to the traitor clubs.

The RS, and the other traitor clubs, have done the best PR stunt and have shown the world what they really are and what they constitute.

Players revolt next at the traitor clubs, ban them all from European competitions for 15 years, and relegate them all and fine them to the sky.

Craztv days in world football.

“Whats Our Name?”

I for one can't wait for the European Super League. Give us more chance to watch exciting games between the "big six" like these thrillers from this season:

Man City 1 Arsenal 0
Man U 0 Chelsea 0
Man U 0 Arsenal 1
Chelsea 0 Tottenham 0
Man U 0 Man City 0
Liverpool 0 Man U 0
Arsenal 0 Man U 0
Tottenham 0 Chelsea 1
Arsenal 0 Man City 1
Chelsea 0 Man U 0
Liverpool 0 Chelsea 1

They should be forced out of English football especially the yanks who are an abomination and need iradicating from our game.

The rs players and manager will be all over it, “As soon as we heard about it we got Hendo and Milner to speak to the gaffer who told John Henry “no way”. We've saved football”.

“I'm convinced this was all a big plan that Uefa cooked up with them. The changes they just forced through are unacceptable and mean in 2024 top 4 will not get you Champions League.
Instead of outcry they pushed it through in the Monday when everyone was moaning about the super league.
Not a single news outlet has mentioned this and they won't”
I hope you're wrong but have a horrible feeling you might be right. Fans euphoric that the Scum 6 never got their way find, when the dust settles, that they more or less have. Let's see if UEFA dish out any punishment.

Just yesterday we were told the 'Dirty Dozen' had signed in for 23 years and there were penalty clauses of BILLIONS if they now changed their minds and walked away.

Or...was that just one more bluff..?

No shame but what's new?

Credit to the stand taken. Over the past few days I suspected this would be a stand off and means of negating a compromise. That may still be the case but I am glad if proven wrong that the elite may have been forced to step down from their pedestal.

I confess to being scarred from years of them getting their own way and I thought they would wriggle something through again. I never mind being proven wrong when it is right.

If this ends up going the way it seems to be, then credit to our club. Credit to our Chairman. We came out first this morning with an uncompromising shot across the bows. We led the way in English football with grace, passion and class. My Everton; our Everton. Despite the frustration and the pain of the past decades, I'm genuinely glad we never became them. Our future is in front of us.

These charlatans have lost face and value now. The hopeful reset, led by Everton having finally stood up to them, backed by the supporters (of all clubs) and even the government.

The traitor clubs must also have no future rights to be part of any of their countries, FAs, UEFA, FIFA, organisations ambassadorial or charity roles.

They can't be trusted, dirty cantankerous scum bags.

The penalties must be drawn up and systematic and contractual.

They must be punished and the right examples made of them all.

They are all a disgrace to the game.

But let's see what happens.

Football has much turmoil to come.

I would like to call distinction between owners and club / fans. I think that's important to recognise.

It's time for the EPL members to take a leaf out of the American NFL playbook. The NFL makes it very, very clear that individual teams are part of a LEAGUE collective. They have stated vociferously in the past to its members that the LEAGUE is what is important.

The sustainability, the success, and the product are the league. Not the individual teams.

As the late, great, last-good-liberal in the USA John F. Kennedy once said:

Ask not what your league can do for you. Ask what you can do for your league.

Greedy bastards still need punishment. If they get off without discipline, they'll just try this shit again in the future. When you have the bully on the ropes, you knock him the fuck out. You have to teach that lesson not to mess.

Great point about Everton. Fantastic, bird-chest proud response by Moshri for me.

Our Club has its head screwed on straight.

Proud.

I expect they will get a 12 point deduction, possibly a suspended one which on appeal will be wiped away after their lawyers get involved.

They will still have to deal with the backlash of supporters, even their own.

I can't honestly see the FA or the PL dishing out any meaningful punishment even though they signed contracts undermining the governing bodies. I just hope they get a big kick in the wallets for breach of contract.

I still can't stop laughing at the thought of Spurs as a "big club".

File under "you can't do that" and send the dude to jail forever.

"Protect and Serve"

Arsenal and Spurs - two teams in decline and wavering mid-table invited to the big dance.

What metric were they using? Probably the "greed" metric but there you go.

The Defense Team it must be said I thought were absolutely brilliant as well.

A trial worthy of the word "lawyer" in an honest moment. Even if that sentence makes me puke.

The Premier league is very attractive to broadcasters with its competitive style and drama. The fact that a rlegation threatened team, managed by a dinosaur can go away and slaughter a potential ESL team shows why we enjoy it so much by paying to attend and watch on TV.

In Spain, competition is token apart from the big two and possibly one from a group. RM, Barca are in serious financial straits and seemingly unable to regain their resources without a massive deal from any source. La Liga is just not a sellable product compared to the PL.

Italian football is often too defensive and very much a turn off to the global TV market and has been suffering attendance decline well before Covid-19. Several years ago Serie A demanded a half-billion cash injection from the Italian Government to make them more competitive in European Competitions. Juvenuts are heavily in debt as well!

So it maybe that Spansh/Italian motivation is for survival cash and the Anglo/American is just sheer greed!

A message must be sent to these clubs eg a five year ban from the UEFA club competions.

They need to be put back in the real world and sit on the naughty step and think about what they have done!

Shamelessly copied from Wikipedia rather than me trying to quote Robert, but yes, effectively, the club is owned by it's own. An external investor can only own 49%.

I suppose that politically protects them but also develops a culture of doing what is right for the club. If you look at Bayern's statement, it makes you proud of Everton because we were saying similar.

Jamie - London.,"What metric were they using? Probably the "greed" metric but there you go."

Jamie - London.,,,1,22:20:33,,82.2.50.200,ok,19747,04/20/2021 22:20:33,overdrive,reader,,,no 1148944,40699,toffeeweb,20/04/2021,Ernie Baywood,balle@ap.aurecongroup.com,You can see it playing out now. Those 6 are the saviours of English football.

I was actually quite looking forward to a massive reset.

I'm still shocked at how wrong they got this. In every single possible way.

Right down to a 74 year old millionaire telling the world what young people do and don't like. ,You can see it playing out now. Those 6 are the saviours of English football.

I was actually quite looking forward to a massive reset.

I'm still shocked at how wrong they got this. In every single possible way.

Right down to a 74 year old millionaire telling the world what young people do and don't like. ,,,1,22:20:54,,120.159.94.138,ok,2295,04/20/2021 22:20:54,tedbull,reader,,,no 1148945,40699,toffeeweb,20/04/2021,Robert Williams,brinwill098@gmail.com,Uefa president Aleksander Ceferin said he was "delighted" by City's decision and welcomed them "back to the European football family".WTF!!
,Uefa president Aleksander Ceferin said he was "delighted" by City's decision and welcomed them "back to the European football family".WTF!!
,,,1,22:20:56,,86.161.121.102,ok,22274,04/20/2021 22:20:56,brinwill098@gmail.com,reader,,,no 1148946,40699,toffeeweb,20/04/2021,Colin Glassar,colinglassar@yahoo.co.uk,"It was huge news over here, Jamie. I've followed it since day one. I hope the young guy who was murdered last week by the female copper also gets the justice he deserves.

Bets on who's next to drop out of the ESL bullshit tomorrow? I'll go for the rs seeing as they let their players send out a tweet tonight.

Colin -

Be slightly careful of rushing to judgment on these things. I don't know enough about that case in particular - I've been in youth soccer travel hell the better part of the last two weeks. But I've seen reports of things fizzle when facts surface.

That being said, this Chauvin case was an absolute slam dunk for me. After being subdued for a minute or two, that poor man should have been placed in the back of the squad car. it was a disgusting display of a man holding unwavering power over another, and seemingly relishing it.

Protect and Serve. Not "Power-Trip and Repress". Easy one, that.

I had no idea it was getting coverage over there. That's kind of neat, for lack of a better descriptor.

But after this I'd just LOVE it - like Kevin Keegan LOVE IT - if Everton gate-crashed the top 4. Win out, take 4th, and then ask:

Who's Super now ya fuckers??!!!

Hell, I now want West Ham and Leicester to finish top 4 if we don't. Anybody sans the six. Bastards. Any compassion I have for any of those Clubs is gone forever.

>2 goals at Anfield and a win
>an ageing squad and no money (apart from recruiting a centre-back from Preston who can't get a game)
>they are still in our first stadium while helplessly watching us take the last best patch of land available in the city
>they can't do anything but watch us build an Apple/Tesla standard beaut of a 3rd stadium that's up there with the Sydney Opera House
>absolute humiliation in the Super League debacle
>everything they do this season is pretty much bordering on comedy genius

As the song goes:

So glad we've almost made it
So sad they had to fade it
Everybody wants to rule the world

Imagine that situation and it drags on long enough to ban them from Europe next season. That would be fun.

I don't know why, but I am genuinely surprised. I just didn't think American news - that is not on a governmental, foreign affairs level, would get that much air over there.

File under naive?

Happy regardless!

Don't even give the man a penny for his thoughts. He'll bite your whole arm off to get that penny!

It's times like these a wickedly hope so.

All clubs involved:

- 10 points deduction this season, 20 points from start of next.

- £100m fine (each) given straight to championship and EFL teams.

- 5 year incoming transfer bans, suspended to 2 years only if new owners and board are brought in.

Ring leaders and anyone who does not declare their exit within 48 hours also get;

- Owners banned as “unfit and improper” and given 12 months to sell shares or club banned from all sanctioned events.

- 3 year European competition bans.

- all players contracts declared void and to be renegotiated or bosman'd.

The Aegean stables smelled better than this.

From a business perspective it was very good theoretical plan that never happened (presuming it doesn't). They raised concerns and a business plan to minimise risks. How would they be punished? They are doing right in a business sense.

As much as clubs should be punished.. I can't see it as it's punishing innocent employees and fans.

As much as we wanted to think it's club fans that has brought about a reversal, we have very little influence sadly.

The real reason British clubs backtrack is because of threats from uk government and our domestic and European football governing bodies.

But just like in F1, the rich, powerful teams will come to an agreement and in a season or two push for more change in their favour again.

American Justice - buy your ticket.

Just my opinion but apart from making great movies I can't see what all the fuss is about 😉

As for the ESL my main worry was BMD being built and with less TV revenue I reckon it was in danger so a big relief for me. I really want this new ground to happen I know it won't change the team but infrastructure is so important to advancement.

Those fans have only one set of people to blame for anything that now comes their way. The incompetents running them.

The shite and spurs are out as well!!

That will be the end of FSG, good riddance..

Here's the thing. Any American with a brain understands we're locked together - the English and the USA - like Lego blocks.

I do find it interesting there's so much American news coverage there.

It's also changing here. On sports radio, they read off the scores of the EPL and Champions League. They never even mentioned it when I was young.

Back to this EPL destruction, I agree with Gary @ 179 there simply has to be sanctions placed on the six. This can't happen again, and a slap on the wrist will only encourage them to try at a later date.

And they are greed-driven. They will try again. The only way to send a message is to hit them now, and hit them hard. I really believe the EPL has to act in this instance aggressively. The very League is at stake, never mind the culture and sport of an entire country.

This approach affects the owners pockets and makes them understand that football is about us the fans and not their share price. Hopefully they will sell up and p*ss off and do us all a favour. The Clubs value will have dropped too, hitting them where its hurts them the most.

Oh, hang on

Juventus = South Carolina (started the whole mess. Too small for a republic, too big for an insane asylum)

Manchester United = Virginia (Started the previous regime. Used to dominate it. Worried its lost a step. Wants to be the big dog)

Arsenal = North Carolina (see Manchester United)

Atletico Madrid = Georgia (More important than you think)

Real Madrid = Florida (Sun-dappled haven for right-wingers)

AC Milan/Inter Milan = Alabama/Mississippi (Outsiders think they're the same - they obsess over their imagined differences)

Chelsea = Tennessee (Let's just say Nathan Bedford Forrest would be right at home with certain elements of Chelsea's support)

Tottenham = Arkansas (Everybody else is doing it. Just along for the ride)

Barcelona/Liverpool = Louisiana (We're different! We're special! Respect our unique culture!)

Manchester City = Texas (Nouveau riche. Thinks everyone likes them. They don't)

Bayern Munich/PSG/Borussia Dortmund = Missouri/Kentucky/Maryland (Border states that could tip things one way or the other)

Hate to say it, but I agree with Justin @ # 181. Managers, players and fans do not deserve to be punished for this, it's the owners who should face sanctions, and the only sanction is one almighty hefty fine. Would they use their own money though, or the clubs and therefore pushing them into even greater debt?

What it means? The clubs won't face punishment for the actions of their owners.

Which is strange when you think about it. Because they own the football club. It's their club.

There should be punishment. Otherwise we've set a precedent. Owners do what they want and get away with it.

Although the Real Madrid equating to Florida is accurate, but makes me a bit sick. 😂

COYB
FTRS!!

Speaking the Word of God.

Again.

So true.

Spurs one was great too.

Football fans are acting as if they've "won" something here. Is it fair to remind them they've "won" no more than the unfair and unsustainable status quo we had three days ago?

The mindset and ambition has been laid bare now. This is a pause in hostilities but certainly not the end. Nothing short of wholesale change in the governance of football and among the leadership of the 12 breakaway clubs can restore confidence for me.
I hope there's not many naive enough to think that this is the end of it. Football still needs reform and change, now more than ever.

The absence of any mention of their fans speaks volumes.

Self-entitled, self-absorbed, greedy - three words one would do well to dodge like the plague.

Which is exactly why you punish them severely. Economic fines / sanctions of a very, very hefty level.

You have to get them to realize they can't try these shenanigans again! You don't negotiate with these people. They don't do so looking to find common ground and a good-for-all end game. They negotiate out of self interest only.

Hit 'em, hit 'em hard.

As a life-long Red Sox fan, I want FSG / NESV out of Liverpool and out of football entirely.

This show of greed and self absorption by them is just too much. It shakes my foundational, cradle-born support of my Red Sox.

They've been brilliant owners in America - albeit under a far different set of rules and culture. I hope they exit football ownership quickly - they're looking like assholes and fucking up the works.

It's embarrassing.

Let this be a lesson to all. The rich and powerful can be defeated. They can be stopped. Kudos to the fans, football authorities, EFC and Moshiri and, even the government for stopping this obscene coup d'etat.

Power to the people!!

I said earlier, it was an interesting tactic by the UEFA Chair to speak out to the morals of the English teams. He did and it had effect. He is now speaking with praise for their climb down.

Call me suspicious and cynical but now they get praise and potential recognition for their heroic stand down. Now punishment coming here.

Sorry, my earlier jubilation has turned to middle aged bah humbugness!!

I think they knew fan pressure would be coming. They're not that stupid.

It smells like a deal was struck, so don't expect further punishment.

Members have to pay an annual membership fee and compared to FC Bayern, Leipzig's, at around 1000 Euros, is very expensive.

They've lost credibility but that is about it as it stands.

It pains me to say that. Very much.

Looking forward to Perez's next statement (not seen one yet).

English football support united. Not seen this in a very long time. Or a government step in so strongly either.

A few years ago when EFC board were doing things that ignored the majority of fans, I said that I supported the team on the pitch, not the board. I hear the same views from fans of the 6 clubs, there is a discord between many clubs and fans, I for one am pleased that Everton FC have over the past few years have become the club others aspire to off the pitch. All we have to do now is get it right on the pitch too. I am proud of Everton Football Club, all of it.

Not my personal view of how I believe they have behaved or should be treated for that behaviour.

I despise what they done, but now they have come home to roost, I don't suspect they will be punished other than getting a slap on the wrist.

I hope I am wrong, but I doubt it.

This is someone who didn't think this would fold so quickly, so don't go off anything I say, especially if I tip a horse!!

We have a proud heritage. We carry those roots with us and that came out today. As I said earlier, our future is in front of us. Proud of our club today.

The media has almost entirely sought the reaction of the 'rebel' clubs about a situation that was entirely created by those 'rebel' clubs in order for those 'rebel' clubs to be the sole beneficiaries of the planned new league.

Those 'rebel' clubs were and undoubtedly still are prepared to jettison every other club in the country, without any concern for their futures or their fans.

For that reason, the games governing bodies should come down extremely hard on the sickening six. From the start of the next season, all of the sickening six should begin every competitive game two goals down at the start of each game and when they play each other both teams should start at minus two goals.

I have no sympathy for the fans of those clubs as they have enjoyed the glory of their club's trophies and triumphs funded by the same companies and types as are running their clubs today. Few if any had any sympathy for the losers or the rest of the clubs who failed to attract the huge sponsorship deals which helped the Sickening Six, to succeed.

There is little doubt in my mind that the various governing bodies will in future days and weeks relate a tale of unity of the football family, but at what cost? Everton's statement about the formation of a closed shop super league, was accurate, fair, and objective, but it will largely be lost on the media as by the weekend the Sickening Six will have the most coverage, their players will be hailed as superheroes and the circus will move on as those responsible for the inception of a Super League will be air-brushed from history at least until the next time that the Sickening Six want to increase their revenue by fair means or foul.

The Premier League should make every member club sign a binding agreement that each and every club shall not seek individually or collectively to form any sort of league that undermines the Premier League. UEFA should also make every member club sign a similar agreement that should a member club be actively seeking to form another European competition that club will be stripped of all of its previous titles and will be banned for no less than five years from playing in UEFA competitions.

I remain unconvinced that the football authorities or the clubs themselves are willing or able to prevent the formation of a super league of any kind and unfortunately the proponents of this latest plan will merely lie low for a little while until an opportunity arises for them to form a more palatable super league, which may attract the support of the lesser clubs such as 'Wolves' and 'Everton' as one rival fan put it when welcoming with open arms the news of the formation of a super league.

Postponed but not abandoned is my take on this evening's events.

' A Leader a mile in front of his Army is a fool. '

These breakaway Clubs thought they where in the driving seat , but the road has disappeared from under them , with uncontrollable repercussions . Hence the unravelling panic.

The reality is leaders need to be a step back. Coordinating, organising, pointing and leading.

The quarterback or the sweeper.

Make no mistake, this is not an ill thought out possible plan...this was the real deal and they would've pressed the button on the bomb if not stopped.

This is nothing more than MUTINY. And should be dealt with accordingly.

What was usual after these things is nice words are spoken...yes we'll listen to your grievances.
They are then disarmed and the the 2 ringleaders Untd & the rs, are promptly hanged.
Their accomplices, Spurs & Arsenal, get 15yrs hard labour and the two silly chaps who were dragged along but didn't actually do anything, City& Chelsea, get 5yrs hard.
And everybody gets 50 lashes - 'Pour encourager les autres'.

Then - once the relegation teams are sorted out The Shit Six are deducted enough points to place them 11th to 17th, as determined by their relative league placings.

Any pots they've won League Cup or FA Cup, are confiscated and they start with -12pts next season.

Yes brave, but I think Mao Tse Tung was thinking of bullets coming from the front and back. These break away Clubs find they are the target from both directions now and this is only the start of it.

It's like never imaging a virus could close down civilisation. What we will see in football in the coming months will be unbelievable.

The thread s on this subject on ToffeeWeb have been incredible. At least Everton got it 100% right. The Breakaway Clubs got it 110% wrong.

As for a punishment - they'll all receive a ‘substantial' fine and a strongly worded statement will be released - that's it.

But someone has to piss on everyones chips right?

My issue is that three days ago we had a system unfit for purpose - the clubs outside it hate it, and apparently the clubs inside hate it as well. And despite the backdown, and Gary Neville and the feel good story of fans pushing back - we still have a system unfit for purpose now.
The underlying issues that lead to these twelve scoundrels thinking they could just walk away into the sunset have not disappeared. Indeed, the six clubs involved on the continent may well have been counting on this windfall to in some cases keep the lights on. What happens to them now?
Football must insist on better governance right now or we'll just be rehashing this argument in x amount of seasons is my view. What has been said and done cannot be unsaid and undone; it's a delicate and fascinating time in football.

Will we see some leadership finally?

Anthony Murphy once again has probably nailed it for me.

We already have a European League. In fact we have two of them.

They're too much like a 'Super League' for the vast majority of clubs and their fans. They're not enough like a 'Super League' for a couple of handfuls of clubs. Yet, their evolution is undoubtedly moving in the direction of the minority.

It might not happen in one swoop like the 12 clubs proposed, but it is still happening. Mondays UEFA announcement was another little creep in that direction. They're boiling the frog and hoping we don't notice.

Football has to respond now. It can't be with any more concessions to these clubs and their owners. And it can't be with a system that needs such power grabs just for the most successful clubs in Europe to survive. It's really broken and needs fixing.

Link

Next subject?

Jamie C - surprised you are surprised by the avid audience for the Derek Chauvin trial. You are aware that the unjust death of George Floyd triggered condemnation and movements across the Western world, if not globally?

We get far more than just your news.

Unlike Paul, I like plenty of stuff beyond the Hollywood film output. Procedurals, sitcoms, drama, current affairs, satire, comedy. The Wire, The Sopranos, CSI (various), Boardwalk City, Breaking Bad, The Walking Dead, Stranger Things, The Tonight Show, Saturday Night Live, Real Time, Last Week Tonight, Our Cartoon President, Resident Alien - all giving little insights into peculiarly American things!

If they get this one wrong surely Kane will "do a Bale" and chase the trophy smoke elsewhere before it's too late?

Who would be the right fit for Spurs, and what would their ceiling be?

As long as billionaires are the driving force in football, they can, and will, value the bottom line above everything else. Unless steps are taken, this will happen again.

The three teams mentioned are just a few who have had to pay the price for indiscretions. In each cse it has resulted in relegation, and rightly so, for all those who thought it was an injustice,

SO...the so called "Super Six have significantly disrupted the entire football league, entirely due to GREED. Comparitive to previous recommendations they should have significant penalties with fines and points deductions. This is my honest assessment because I dislike all of the mentioned teams. Except for Liverpool who I depise to the Nth degree, and far beyond what can ever be put into words without resorting to expletives that I only use when correcting the DOG.

That will upset the players and fans of these clubs and bring about the necessary backlash against these greedy, deceitful cowards as well as reducing the chances of it happening again in the future.

I hope the mealy mouthed apologies will not be accepted as exoneration.

Let's remember though, this was about 6 blokes (billionaires) wanting to make even more billions, it wasn't about the fans of those clubs. Many of those fans from all the clubs demonstrated against the plans.

Moshiri stepped up to the plate and demonstrated he understands the game is much much more than just about making money. Very reassuring and a validation of Kenwright's decision to introduce him to Everton. He's here for the right reasons.

It is with some dismay I read the posts of some folk who have previously and repeatedly laid into Kenwright, now attacking Liverpool fans as if these fans had anything to do with the ESL. A double whammy of bad judgement on their part sadly.

We have to remember our grass roots, and where we came from, this allows other clubs with aspirations of reaching a top competitive league to soldier on, and one day, their time may come.

We are open to change in an ever evolving football world, but let us never forget that all those involved in the football leagues deserve their chance to have ambitions or else there would be no point in their existence.

Which is why this hasn't gone away. Those clubs still believe certain things. They're still going to push the same agendas. They've still just brought the game and the league into disrepute.

No, it wasn't the fans. Obviously it wasn't - the fans were the ones being told that their clubs couldn't care less about them. As for the players, well they can choose who they want to play for. Anyone signing, for example, at Man Utd this summer should know who they're getting into bed with. They make their choices, and they take their many pieces of silver.

While I'm proud that pretty much everyone other than the leadership of the 12 clubs thought this was a disgusting idea (because it was)... I'm not sure I can take hearing how City, or Liverpool, or whoever, saved the day through fan power. 'Hendo' didn't save the day either. The clubs were well prepared to cop flack for this and I doubt they underestimated the fans.

There is more to the withdrawal and I'll guess the remaining 14 clubs and the PL wielded every bit of power they had.

And watch Carragher and Neville start to say the players shouldn't be punished by the owners actions.

These people are so two faced its unreal. How many times have they said "we know football has to change", god knows why it has to change but its to justify their Champions league pasts which effectively made football a closed shop anyway.

Why does football have to change? so Man U and Liverpool can get more money?

Their view is that to make the game more sustainable, top clubs have to earn more money. It's a simple as that to them, because the alternative of stopping the obscene spending hasn't occurred to them.

Football has been a bubble for a long time. COVID has gone very close to popping it. These clubs couldn't afford to suddenly earn less than they used to, because their debts are serviced by future borrowing against ever increasing TV incomes.

We don't seize the moment to change the game. We revert back to and if anything, now fuel the belief that the Premier League and it's European counterparts are fit for purpose. They still mainly serve to benefit the few and do not cater or care for grass roots. It's still a top down view of football.

Let's not forget, they are what fuelled this and let's not be under no illusion there will be ongoing discussion to reform based on the "needs" of the likes of Real Madrid.

The danger here is that after 48 hours of passionate intervention, we rapidly descend back into the normal. Nothing to see here.

Meanwhile, the same 6 we have vilified plot their next move. Hopefully I am being overly cynical and we can use this moment to give everyone a voice in reforming the game, not just the self-proclaimed elite.

No disrespect to all of our clubs who made a great fist of standing up to this. But we did because we had no option. Bayern and Dortmund will have had a choice and they chose the moral high ground because they knew it was the right thing to do. Unlike 6 English clubs who couldn't help themselves.

Surely there were phone calls going on in the background were they guaranteed at least minimum sanctions if they walked away now.

Are you seriously suggesting that this wasn't driven by individual owners, but by the Boards of each club somehow pushing the clubs in a direction the owners don't want to go to by pulling the wool over naive owners eyes? Not a chance.

These billionaires are billionaires for a reason. These people know their own minds, have been extremely successful at making money and are extreme alpha males. They do what they want to do. Mark my words, this is driven by a few billionaires with their self appointed lap dog directors following their orders.

It is this that has forced them to drop their plans. It will be interesting to see whether these billionaires who've now demonstrated their true primary motives for wanting to invest in their clubs (in other words make money), now reflect and think, ‘why am I investing in this club?' ‘I can't get the returns I was planning to now'. If they do, this could lead to some of these owners now reassessing their whole business strategy and look to sell their interests and seek investment opportunities elsewhere that offer better returns and opportunities. This is a real possibility in my eyes. If they do this will be to Everton's benefit.

7th article down on thier website.
Articles ahead of this story include one about a pizza oven and one about a housing development.

I hope so. It would be brilliant for Everton and Moshiri.

These clubs signing up to the Super League was merely the latest manifestation of a long-term process of attempting to secure greater control of elite football and its monies.

If strong punishment is not now taken against these clubs, with particularly strong punishment against Liverpool and Utd, then there is likely to be no real prevention of further attempts by these clubs to control football, and a sure sign that elite football is no longer worth watching.

By the time we got to signed contracts and announcements there must have been hundreds involved, including some fairly normal successful people.

I haven't heard of swathes of football club executives resigning or whistle blowing lately.

To get to this point, the clubs are riddled. No-one stopped it from happening. The silence around this was maintained perfectly.

No, it's not the fans. But the clubs? Yes, absolutely.

Hope this will ignite some energy into our boys. Up the Toffees.

And doesn't that speak volumes as to how they are run and owned? I've bored many on here with my using the German football system as a model to be admired.

My fear now is we go back to the status quo of Premier League and Champions League, which is now seen as the knights in shining armour when really they were the catalyst for this type of thinking many years ago.

An opportunity to genuinely overhaul our football system or fall back into compliant line?

As for those saying you can't punish the fans and players of these six clubs have the media forgotten about Heysel, yes of course they have.
All other clubs were out of Europe for five years no fault of those clubs, players and supporters.

Will the super league raise it's ugly head again around the time TV rights for the Premier League are due for renewal?

Does Darts Boxing Tennis etc evolve? The game is what it is and only the business side evolves.

I don't know if I will ever feel the same towards football again. I feel betrayed, rejected and angry. Football is part and parcel of who we are. It's ingrained in us from the moment we first kick a ball in the back garden, street or living room. And yet these fuckers come in and think they can take it away from us in the blink of an eye?

It will take me a long time, if ever, to trust in football again. I feel cheated and abused. I'm just glad Everton were not involved in this sordid affair but if the Dirty Dozen are not punished accordingly then I doubt I will ever regain my love for the game.

Farhad, Bill and co. Do the right thing. Call for reform from top-to-bottom, clean up the game, change the rules if necessary but whatever you do, punish these snakes so they'll never again try to steal OUR game. Thank you.

Just seen Barnes giving it his version of big business finance in football and before him, The RS owner, Henry.

I'm expecting some some seriously heavy hint from the football powers, the next few days, and perhaps by Friday they punishments will be assigned.

But I'm living in hope that it does, and no more at this moment in time.

The spectacular Bramley Moore stadium, the Moshiri/ Usmanov influence is a a direct and real threat to the status quo in future years.

Curtailing these threats permanently from clubs like ours, and other well supported clubs with similar aspirations, lie at the heart of all this.

The punishments have to fit the crime. I agree with fines and point deductions as being an essential part.

However, First and foremost the Greedy Six clubs should have all voting rights completely removed for five years.

They are not fit and proper clubs to be making any decisions on the future of the Premier League at the moment. That is a clear and obvious fact.

Then the reliable and trusted members of the Premier League can sort out affairs and together create a new binding charter without malign and greedy influence.

All clubs then will have to sign this new charter to play in the Premier League.

We (him included) might not like it, but he was saying it how it is in terms of football, even with this closed shop nonsense beaten down.

More money for the chosen few no doubt had a comforting effect on the scummy 6 prem insurgents. Whatever happens, they will be financially rewarded.

They run the competition and set the rules, they'll do as little as possible to get involved with some long winded, legal threat against billionaire business owners.

I hope I'm wrong, but as in F1, the business element will not stop. These clubs will be back planning the next moves. We can try to stop them, but easier said than done.

FFP was to help clubs stop overspending and have a fairer playing field. All clubs signed up to FFP and any breaches implemented without recourse. City basically overturned the decision in court.

The champions league reformat has already stepped in the direction of bowing to big team pressure. Another unfair move, shame on them. The should back track on that now, they won't.

Next we will be TV rights for individual clubs, weather it be domestically or overseas.

Money makes the world go around and rules are there to be broken. That's the mentality, not one of sporting integrity.

This will be spun as "fan power" and spun to show the RS as the fans who stopped it happening. It will play into their self-obsessed and selfish myth as being the special fans - forget the smashed windows of coaches, forget setting fire to the Liver Building, forget Heysel, forget denying the racism of Luis Suarez simply because he's "one of them".

Their manager made a few ambiguous noises about the ESL and their players condemned it only when it was clearly collapsing, but the RS fans will laud them as heroes.

There will be no reaction to the sorry affair from UEFA and the PL, they'll simper on the sidelines, saying how great it is that all the fans love the current "product" so much that they fought hard for it.

Nothing will change. The rich clubs will dominate, the CL will get over more bloated. The only thing that's come out of this is that the fans of the majority of clubs have been reminded how badly football has been stolen from them, how its become an absolute parody of the game I started to watch with my dad in 1969. Overpaid players, greedy agents and owners, world cups awarded to murdering regimes, and the same clubs winning everything again and again and again.

I remember watching Forest in the first game after promotion at Goodison in 1977. They demolished us and went on to win the title and the European Cup playing some brilliant football.
Never again.

This whole tawdry affair has done nothing but make me a little bit sadder about what we've lost since Big Money corporatised football.

- Man City champions almost certainly
- Man Utd, Leicester and West Ham looking very good for a champions league spot
- Us, Leeds, Chelsea and the RS challenging for fourth place but a bit adrift.

Lost track of where things stand with the cups.

This is the least you would expect as a punishment - given it doesn't actually have a huge impact.

Many of us will have worked for employers who ask us to do stuff we don't agree with, but we do it as we are employed and paid to do it. It's inevitable that if you're employed by someone you'll be asked to do something as some point that you don't agree with, or think is not in the best interests of the business you work for. That's the life of an employee though. To hold such employees to account for following their employer's LEGAL instructions, is unrealistic and applying some sort of moral self righteous high ground. That is fantasy.

Now there may be a small number of directors appointed by the billionaires owners, that hold the same values and views as the owners. Sure these people could be viewed in the same light as the owners. But these people are only at the club because they've been appointed by the owners, or because they have the same values as the owners. There won't be 100s of them though, just a few appointed in strategic positions by the owners. If the owners left the club, these folk would not be employed by a new owner with different values. They'd be weeded out.

As I say in businesses with sole ownership, it's the owners that drive everything. It is they who impose their own morals and values on any business/football club. It is these few people who are ultimately responsible and accountable in my book.

'It goes without saying but should be said that the project put forward was never going to stand without the support of the fans. No-one ever thought differently in England. Over these 48 hours you were very clear that it would not stand. We heard you. I heard you'.

John Henry,"'I want to apologise to all the fans and supporters of Liverpool Football Club for the disruption I caused over the past 48 hours.

'It goes without saying but should be said that the project put forward was never going to stand without the support of the fans. No-one ever thought differently in England. Over these 48 hours you were very clear that it would not stand. We heard you. I heard you'.

John Henry,,,1,08:59:35,,213.205.192.106,ok,23848,04/21/2021 08:59:35,Tomrichards2@outlook.com,reader,,,no 1149097,40699,toffeeweb,21/04/2021,Stan Schofield,Stan.schofield@icloud.com,"Colin@274: Re my post @263, for me the emotional drain has been prolonged and steady over a number of years, and the events of this week are merely the latest in a saga of bias, cheating and corruption that comes from the very top of football business organisations.

Players, fans and manager of LFC have come out with moralising statements this week, but those same people are willing accomplices to the chronic actions of owners of that club. The cheating and win-at-all-costs attitude of LFC on the pitch is a reflection of their entire cynical culture which starts at the top of the organisation. They have all been in it together. And they should now suffer together. Supporting a club involves taking the rough with the smooth. They're all happy to take success when it comes, including success based on cheating, so they should now take a hit, a very big one.

And if there is no such punishment from the authorities, then elite football is doomed, and I for one will no longer be watching it.

As a Football club Liverpool and its fans have bought disrepute to Footy for decades and those supporters need to think about what sort of a club they are supporting otherwise they are complicit.

Nasty vile club.

Sky were telling us on Monday how they've been good for the game when they reinvented football in 1992. I used to be able to pay £4 and stand on the Gwladys Street End to watch a team of players that I felt I could relate to. They earned a good living but weren't earning £100k per week. Now I have to pay ten times that and would struggle to get a ticket for me and my lad. The club changes their 3 kits every year to milk the cash cow. Players earn multiple times the average national wage in a week. Managers are sacked and walk away with a king's ransom. The games used to be on terrestrial TV. Now we need to pay an exhorbitant amount each month to watch the games. Not content with it costing us a fortune, the half time analysis features two commercial breaks, interrupted only by Sky telling us about the next big event they're broadcasting. On top of this, a lot of the adverts are for betting companies pushing people into gambling money a lot of them don't have.

Carragher and Neville are up in arms about a breakaway when they helped build this "Big 6" myth. Carragher talks about respecting fans after retaining a lucrative job having been caught spitting at a fan whilst driving. Meanwhile, one elite club is running away with the title, the usual teams are in the European competitions thus widening the gulf for the following season and clubs like Bury go out of business.

Great for the game. Believe in better.

The owners of these clubs who bought in purely with the prime motive to maximise their return on investment (we know that for fact now) have just had a massive reality check. All of a sudden they realise their strategic model of global football exploitation won't be accepted by the fans. This has potential MASSIVE consequences to these clubs. These billionaires who've just had their wings clipped, will now be asking themselves should they remain invested in football, an industry they can't manipulate as they would like for their own personal financial gain. They'll now be thinking about alternatives, this ultimately could mean they will look to sell their stakes and move in to other opportunities that are more attractive financially for them and their hedge fund mates. That could have huge negative consequences for these clubs.

The bigger risk now for these rich owners is that the government will proceed with legislation to change to governance of football (e.g. through implementing the 50 + 1 rule) and/or the appointment of an independent regulator with beefy statutory powers.

The government have said today they plan to push on with this review.

The Liverpool media mafia will be all over the place today starting to give the praise out to their wonderful owners, and plenty will listen, daft bastards!!

The agenda still exists.

Yes, appropriate punishment must occur. And then what?

It seems that the enquiry into football governance is still going ahead, and that's good, at least on the face of it. The fans to be at the heart of it. I hope so. But I also hope it doesn't drag on and get watered down. And prolonged inaction by the decision makers leads to all momentum trickling away.

The same way that BLM momentum seems to have been dissipated, and taking the knee has become an increasingly empty gesture, as time has passed, with no meaningful lasting changes. Still widespread daily abuse and racism. No institutional racism in UK,according to an official enquiry recently.

This is only football, and this is not finished with yet. Enjoy the moment but like McArthur, they will return.

The fans and Government have slapped them down, in the most public humiliation. Billionaire egos will be bruised and battered, anger will be bubbling under their fake apologies and new risk of Government regulation represents real financial risk to them.

They know what the answer is, sell up and move on to try and rape another industry. Will they though.?.

Already we have seen a statement welcoming City and Chelsea back into the European family, and no doubt the new rules that UEFA are bringing in and the added finances will be some sort of sop to the breakaway group.
The Premier likewise will do exactly the same no sanctions as they wouldn't dare upset Liverpool or Man Utd as they are a main reason why there is so much money in the game.

He added: 'If there's one thing this horrible pandemic has clearly shown, it's how crucial fans are to our sport and to every sport. It's shown in every empty stadium. It's been an incredibly tough year for all of us; virtually no-one unaffected. It's important that the Liverpool football family remains intact, vital and committed to what we've seen from you globally, with local gestures of kindness and support. I can promise you I will do whatever I can to further that'.

Uefa punished the lot of us then, the least they can do is punish the 12 now.

This has potentially huge implications for these clubs. These billionaires may look to sell. If they are replaced by other billionaires there will be one huge difference, namely the new billionaires are buying in knowing they can't destroy our game as we know it, just for their own financial gain. In other words new billionaires buying in will have values much more closely aligned to those of the fans, much like Moshiri has already demonstrated he has. Can only be good for our club and the game in general, if these few scum bag billionaires get the hell out of our league's clubs.

This could be a watershed moment for English football and an opportunity for clubs like Everton to catch up.

The president of Madrid has said they need to re-think their strategy, so for sure he will try again.

None of the owners will leave, unless they are ready to make huge losses at prices they will obtain in today's market.

A fan led change to the structure of football clubs would be most welcome but it will be something discussed for a while, then it will dissipate.

The bald truth is the EPL needs these six clubs prospering because that's from where their main income is derived. Most neutral fans from the UK and much further afield, will watch when one of the six are playing, less so when WBA are playing Sheff Utd.

We cannot go back despite how much we all yearn for a re-set of sorts. We as Evertonians just need to pray EFC can get into the CL mix as soon as possible and get amongst them because they ain't go away in the short or long term.

Sorry if this bursts a few passionate bubbles but I am sure this is how it will all quietly play out.

I hope you are right but history tells me the rich and powerful always get what they want in the end. You only have to look at how the European Cup has evolved to suit the rich and powerful. This competition was for all the clubs who had won their national leagues and it was a free draw were anybody could play anybody. But the rich clubs said hang on if for example we Man Utd draw AC Milan we could go out in the first round so we will make very little money. So they then evolved the competition at the instruction of the powerful which would allow clubs finishing 1st 2nd 3rd and 4th to compete, again even if the rich and powerful had a bad season they had a greater chance of being in the comp now there were 4 places up for grabs. Then not satisfied with that they wanted a seeded system so the rich and powerful could progress to the later stages and make more money. Then not happy with that they didnt want any club not in the cartel to Gatecrash the party by acquiring an owner with untold wealth, so they brought in a FFP rule to try and curtail that. So I have very little faith that this little set back will hurt them to much or change football for the better. They will just push for further changes that protect the cartel.

At the absolute very least it has to be 30 point deductions suspended for 10 years. If this happens again then in that time period then those points deductions are handed out immediately.

They haven't given up. This is a tactical retreat. Like Neville said, the PR and Comms people will be working overtime to redo their image. Already the media are painting the Chelsea and rs fans as saviours of the game, not a peep about our effort yesterday.

This feels like a victory. I hope it's not a Pyrrhic victory. If the truce is over, can we go back to hating our rivals?

Make the clubs suffer in the pocket, but not through fines, but giving back to those fans they had absolutely no regard for, whatsoever.

Make them issue free tickets for every game played inside their stadiums, to both home and away fans, for the next two years, why should anyone else receive the fines?

As I understand it, from 2024 if say us, West Ham and Leicester finished 2nd, 3rd and 4th and the RS, Utd and Chelsea came 5th, 6th and 7th those latter 3 'big' clubs would go onto Champs League with us more successful 'minnows' without the UEFA qualifying quotent, going into the Europa League.

Cue outrage and protests. no, probably not!

Correct me if I am wrong.

I'm not sure if rules have been broken, but didn't the clubs withdraw from the one of the European football bodies? If so, then surely they shouldn't be allowed back in without sanctions? If they gave notice, for example, to withdraw from the CL in favour of the Super League, they shouldn't be allowed back in for perhaps five years.

I won't hold my breath though, judging by the reaction so far.

Sanctions should be made, but it's something that the governing bodies are going to have to get right. No way this is over, and once it settles down now, the PR machine's of some of these clubs, will start pointing out that none of them wanted to leave their respective leagues, and although they got things wrong, it was an attack on UEFA, and not the EPL.

1) Some sort of pretty hefty (legally imposable) fine to be imposed by the FA - the proceeds from that directed into the lower tiers. The six English clubs at say £150m each would raise just under £1bn.

2) Let this season play out, but barr all 12 clubs from entering any European competition next season, leaving them having to earn it the following season. That opens the door to a number of clubs to reap the rewards of at least one season in Europe thus helping them to be increasingly competitive off the back of that.

If our season ended exactly as it stands now, that would let Leics, WHam, Everton, Leeds, and Villa, into either Champs or Europa. The criteria for qualifying via the FA cup would need to be worked out if one of the Horrible Six were to (theoretically) qualify.

And John Barnes is absolutely right. This isn't a victory for the fans, it's a victory for UEFA and the Premier League, it's a victory for the status quo. We're back where we were three days ago - worse in fact, because now there are two places in the CL reserved for any big club that finishes mid-table instead of in the top four.

They're financial paedophiles, they'll reoffend later on and rape the cash pot again.

I have no doubt an apology would look sincere, but they wouldn't mean a word of it.

Punish them now and sicken them with what any further attempts would mean. Years out of the CL and Relegation with heavy points deductions, forcing them to fight for promotion, let's teach them the value of competition!

The clubs did this. There's a common thread, and it's not just overseas owners. It's this 'Big 6'.

The clubs did it and should be punished for signing up to join an unrecognised league.

The cover-up has begun!

P.s. And for those with the “don't punish the fans/clubs” well, weren't we punished for Heysel? What's good for the goose........

Fucking hell, I've seen it all now. The six won't be punished, they'll all be given Knighthoods.

Another preposterously arrogant and greedy power grab that stifles competition and self serves and protects the current elite.

We now need action, not words.

Will then be? I'm not optimistic it will happen and if it does it will be financial, which they will absorb with next year's pay cheque.

This has turned me into a right cynic.

Yes, I wonder if this will be another unsightly episode airbrushed from history.

Assuming the current system is kept in place for the first 32 places. I think the first additional place here goes to France, as their league is the fifth ranked national association behind Premier League, Spanish, German, Italian leagues

The Champions Path includes all league champions which do not qualify directly for the group stage, and consists of the following rounds: Preliminary round (4 teams playing one-legged semi-finals and final): 4 teams which enter in this round.

The final 2 places and the highest club coefficient will be interesting to see how that pans out.

'Qualification for the UEFA Champions League will continue to be open and earned through a team's performance in domestic competitions.

One of the additional places will go to the club ranked third in the championship of the association in fifth position in the UEFA national association ranking. Another will be awarded to a domestic champion by extending from four to five the number of clubs qualifying via the so-called “Champions Path”.

The final two places will go to the clubs with the highest club coefficient over the last five years that have not qualified for the Champions League group stage but have qualified either for the Champions League qualification phase, the Europa League or the Europa Conference League.'

Clear as mud. Good luck everyone!

A ban from European competitions, points deductions and or relegation will hurt these clubs for 2/3 years, but they will come back because sadly they are big clubs. Teams like Crewe or Blackpool or orient may not have survived and never come back. A few years of hardship for the so called glamour clubs is a small price to pay for the treachery and deceit of their owners. Do I care about their fans? No I care more about football and what it means to the supporters of Tranmere and Preston than them.

- 10 Point Deduction for 2020-21 Season

- Exclusion from all 2021-22 European Competition

- Club Fined £10m. Funds used to develop grassroots football

Answers on a postcard please.

There's no fantasy in expecting that someone would have said "that's a bad idea, don't do it". I doubt it was like a Dr Evil scene where henchmen were dropped into a pit if they dissented, while John Henry stroked his cat.

There are a lot of people at those clubs that went along with it. They may have even raised the initial idea. They certainly worked on making it happen.

And they certainly would have helped Henry to craft the "it was all me, please don't punish the fans" crap that is being lapped up now.

Whether they were following direction or not, they did it. They directed others to support the plan. The clubs did it and should be punished.

If they are also going to seed the initial ten games, then it's a total farce, basically guaranteeing the top clubs a clear route to at least the last 16, and then that game is seeded too, so probably to the quarter finals.

God, I miss the old European Cup.

I'd also ban them from all domestic cups next season. Deduct them 15 points next season. Fine them £50m each and exclude them for three years from any involvement in premier league meetings. Make them feel like the shits they are.

As I understand, they only signed up to a proposal. So unless they can be punished for intent, I'm suspect about being able to do anything to them.

Told you. It's turned an eternal optimist into a raging cynic.

What exactly do you think employees of an organisation should do when the 100% owner of that business tells them to do something they don't like, but is legal? Walk out on principle and take the moral high ground whilst the bank repossesses their homes a few months later?

Turn it around. If you are that owner and your subordinates aren't doing what you asked them to do, what would you do? Let them get away with it and undermine your authority? That's a route to disaster.

This whole issue is one of greed of a few elite billionaires who own football clubs. It's not about football, or trying to label some fans, or club employees, better than others. That would be arrogant and self righteous.

If we'd had a different billionaire owner, Everton the club, you and me and all us fans, would have been wrongly branded by association, with the same bad label, by those folk with self proclaimed, false superior morals. That would be bollocks.

Uefa should now repay them by saying “enjoy your ESL next season. See you in 2023 - perhaps”.

The owner doesn't simply say "Here's what we are doing, now you sort the contacts, you organise the non disclosure forms, you prepare the dolphins with frickin' laser beams..."

To get to the point that they got to, there would have been agreement. There would have been teams working on it. There would have been strategic alignment within the upper levels of the club.

You simply don't broker billion dollar deals on one man's say so and a couple of yes men doing the admin.

That speaks to the culture at these clubs. There problem is that it could happen at these clubs. There would be plenty of clubs where it couldn't happen in such secrecy. And yes, people do align or leave employment. They do it all the time in matters nowhere near as ethically disgraceful as this.

Yes, it could be other clubs doing terrible things; I wasn't born yesterday. But it wasn't - it was these 6 that did it. They held clandestine meetings with the intent of fucking over the vast majority of the professional levels of the sport... for their own benefit.

Then claimed that they would never have done it without fan support. Really? Not for one second did they think the fans would back this. They knew that full well and were still prepared to do it. The ultimate level of fan revolt may have surprised then, but it wasn't what stopped them and caused them to abandon the idea in such a synchronised way. They were prepared for fan revolt.

Henry and his associates are playing people like fiddles here. Fans are repeating the rhetoric... "you can't punish the clubs, that would be unfair on fans and players". When else has that ever been a thing?

Fuck it, award Everton a premier league title. I know the club didn't win one, but that's not our fans' fault is it? Give one to everyone.

Without the premier league and champions league pots of gold, the odds are they wouldn't have been much better off financially, maybe a few million quid, but that's about it. If JP Morgan were stumping up say four times as much what they were going to, then the septic six would have gone.

They couldn't give a rats arse about the fans. Any apologies are futile and already some fans of the septic six are being taken in by it.

Hit them hard, massive, massive fines, points deduction and I'd go as far as relegation. They couldn't gives a rats arse about English football and the premier league. Well English football and the premier league need to show we / they don't give a rats arse about them. No club is bigger than football and they need to pay the consequences for their actions. Unfair on the managers, players and fans for these sanctions, after all it's not their fault, Ha, where have we heard that before, no they're right, it's not their fault, just like it wasn't our fault back in 1985 for getting a five year European ban.

Many fans actually think that was a victory. But it's simply a continuation of a process of corruption that's been happening for a long time.

If these clubs are not punished heavily, to really hurt them, as other less fashionable and less wealthy clubs have been punished to date, then top level football is utterly fucked. Not only will I not be watching football if this episode goes unpunished, I will not be able to muster coming on ToffeeWeb anymore, because I just couldn't bear any more involvement in the corrupt nonsense that is elite football, even commenting on it amongst fine Evertonians who's ToffeeWeb company I've enjoyed for the past 6 years.

I realise that that single personal response does fuckall to make things better, but if enough people walked away from the corrupt luxury item that is modern elite football, then it would have to change. But they won't, and it won't, and they'll continue to stand by and watch, with occasional episodes of protest like this week's that will ultimately improve nothing.

Moshiri has played a absolute blinder, help in no small part by Evertons reputation. Bill and Denise will push for 100% advantage with in the football authoritive bodies.

I can't copy and paste but if anyone could be so kind as to post it.

I expect some more waffle about being custodians, a few words about needing to tighten up governance and maybe set up some kind of fans' committee, and then nothing.

"there's not a single successful leader that operates that way. John Henry is a successful business owner.
The owner doesn't simply say "Here's what we are doing, now you sort the contacts, you organise the non disclosure forms, you prepare the dolphins with frickin' laser beams..."

Spot on statement. In the military one of the values & standards is "moral courage". More than most an environment where people follow orders. But they are also taught to challenge and leaders taught to accept being challenged if the team don't think something is right. You don't simply and blindly follow orders. You may have to eventually but you will have your say if you feel something is immoral and a good leader will listen. Otherwise you're in dictatorship territory.

Curva Sud

The horse has bolted, the barn has been turned into a fast-food outlet and a new improved reality show has used the space to attract millions of new subscription viewers. Welcome to the 2020s.

“Honestly, it makes us laugh to see all those people in the control room of football suddenly claim we fans are first and foremost. The Super League is just the latest in a long line of innumerable manoeuvres over decades that has made football into a business” they said (via FI).

“The birth of this new competition would certainly be another shove to the football of old, which is by now a distant memory, and will inevitably obscure the tradition of the various national leagues, robbing football of the undeniable principle of sporting meritocracy.

“But the thing that most leaves us indignant is the hypocrisy of all those who contributed to making this sport nothing but a business, those who today stand up in name of the fans, but only because they saw their remunerative and seemingly untouchable project fall apart.

“Football did belong to the people until the 1990s, when the Champions League was born, destroying the old European Cup. From that moment, an unbreachable chasm has been created between the big and small clubs.

“Football did belong to the people even when nobody lifted a finger to stop the increase of ticket prices that was imposed by some Presidents.

“Football did belong to the people even when nobody stepped in to stop the rise of the super agents, who took player salaries to ever more astronomical figures, which could only be sustained with TV rights, the same TV companies that imposed increasingly chaotic fixture lists, with games on improbable days and kick-off times.

“Football did belong to the people even when rules were imposed to stop any rapport between the players and the fans.

“Football did belong to the people even when Supercoppa Finals were played on other continents or the dates of some games were changed a few days before kick-off, damaging those fans who had booked trains or planes to get to the stadium.

“Football did belong to the people even when some clubs were allowed to circumvent Financial Fair Play, while others with less influential Presidents were penalised.

“Football did belong to the people even when the World Cup was forced to Qatar in 2022, despite moving the entire calendar and disregarding human rights violations.

“We could list numerous other examples to show the absolute hypocrisy of the words we're hearing from the football chiefs over the last 48 hours.

“The Super League is just the latest disgusting step, but those who took football to this point are no less grotesque, so save us these ludicrous performances of rhetoric and morality.

“Now that the money is running out, feel free to fight it out between yourselves, but don't you dare name the fans. PIGS!”

The PL simply can't walk past this standard. Nor can UEFA. Big 6 fans already didn't accept it, but fell straight back into line once they got back to their comfortable status quo.

It's sickening.

Any appeasement now from the authorities or other clubs will only encourage them. If football fails to seize this moment, governments must do so nationally and at EU level. Otherwise we will be facing the same scenario within five years.

If we don't act now and hit them while they're down they'll soon recover and be back to their dastardly ways. No mercy!!

When they changed the rules for Liverpool a message was sent. When they brought a ref out of retirement for one game, the piss was taken.

Every man and his dog, including reds, knew Everton had been fucked over and where was our protest? Where was the integrity of the game, where was the media backlash.

I couldn't care for the feelings of the reds I am unfortunately related to, nevermind the ones I don't know. I hope Henry robs them all.

Soren, never hold your breath for that wish mate. It'll be, why should James Milner have to suffer for these selfish people. See if Neville backs you or Milner the big nose phoney.

Toothless governing bodies have appeased the rich and powerful clubs every step of the way for nigh on half a-century if not longer and only when those governing bodies looked as if they'd lose their cash cows did they speak out.

Eventually, the richest clubs will get their own way or they will continue to maximise their influence on the governing bodies of the game until they do.

I refuse to believe that last weekend's initial announcement was anything other than a 'test the water' scenario to gauge reaction and see which way the wind was blowing unless of course, the group of twelve were so arrogant to believe that their ideas would be welcomed by all and sundry without criticism. It could also have been a good way to hide the finer details of the revamped Champions League rules which are not dissimilar to the closed-shop Super League.

The power lies with those elite clubs and that will not change for some considerable time.

Even before talk of the breakaway, they revamped the Champions league, ensuring should any of the usual suspects miss out, they can use their trump card of past history, in the Champions league to gain entry.

For me that has to be removed, or they are no better then the breakaway failed bid, they are giving more power, to those who have nearly always qualified each season, how can that be right, you should gain entry, based on the results for the current seasons only, not what you did ten years ago.

Secondly, forget fan power, this has nothing to do with fan power, once the threat of not being able to play in the premier league as well came to hand, that is what made the clubs think.

No suprises, city and Chelsea folded first, both still in the Champions league, had neither been in the Competion still, or the threat of expulsion from the premier league not come to hand, I very much doubt, any of the teams would have bowed to fan power.

So do not be misled by this we listened to the fans bullshit.

Anyway, it's no surprise that City and Chelsea folded first, while the RS and Utd had to be dragged from the ESL project kicking and screaming (oh, sorry, I mean FSG "listened to the LFC family"). We all know how deluded the RS fans are, but even the stupidest Kopite must, deep down, be able to see through John Henry's bullshit statement.

https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/european-super-league-crystal-palace-steve-parish-reforms-coup-steal-football-b930857.html

Pity nobody will listen to him, it's only Crystal Palace after all. Who have won as much as Spurs have recently.

Sure I agree he'll have teams of people (they won't be that big though, most EPL clubs have around 500-600 non playing staff so are not huge employers) tasked with delivering those objectives, but these sort of guys have the final say on anything of strategic importance. They don't have boardrooms voting on anything of real importance, the quorum is the owners vote. End of (from an owner's perspective).

Let's agree to differ on the little bit we have different views on, if you're ok with that..

That's a bit rich Ronald!,"The only thing UEFA care about is money" - Koeman.

That's a bit rich Ronald!,,,1,14:51:42,,87.81.22.116,ok,11631,04/21/2021 14:51:42,penedes9@gmail.com,reader,,,no 1149234,40702,toffeeweb,21/04/2021,Trevor Powell,prescotian@asia.com,"After all the doom and gloom of the ODIOUS SIX, celebrate Sonny Blu Lo-Everton

Let's not forget though, that the starting point for all of this was whether clubs or the owner should be punished.

It's still the club, right? Regardless of who is accountable, or who was completely innocent. Liverpool FC, as a football club, signed up to be the founder member of a rebel league that threatened basic sporting concepts for the club's financial gain.

That's punishable. In fact, it has to be punished.

Realistically, unfortunately I am not sure how these clubs can be punished now that they've done u-turns and not gone through with the new league. It leaves a very bad taste in the mouth and the foulest of smells, but legally I'm not sure if any football body can do anything.

For me, as I've mentioned, the longer game may be the punishment that comes to the clubs, if these owners start to sell off their interests in the clubs, or at the very least, stop investing as much money in them as they no longer see the opportunity to create global football mega franchises, using English clubs as a means to their own financial ends.

"I've never loved Everton so much as when I've seen their statement this morning, it made me really ultra proud to have captained that football club."

Noted!

The big six are saying that it has nothing to do with their fans, players or Managers, so should not be punished.

Yet in 1985, Everton Football club, the players and Manager, had nothing to do with events elsewhere, was no fault of our great football club, but yet we were still punished.

These clubs should not escape punishment, but we all know they will not get punished, it will be brushed under the carpet, an example has to be made on these clubs, but I will not hold my breath.

If they don't deduct points, it should only be because the rules clearly say they shouldn't. Nothing to do with whether the fans will suffer or not. I guess "the fans can't suffer" is Sky Code for "our viewing figures can't suffer".

As many have said, before the 'Super League' came to light (how long has it really been in the making?) the plans to shoehorn the 'big teams' into the champions league, if they haven't qualified by the normal methods, should now be vociferously opposed. If you have all the resources at you disposal that these 'big teams' have, but cannot qualify - well, hey ho!

The game as a whole has stunk for a long time. I only hang onto Everton by a thread - 1 local lad in the team, a lot of imports rolling around and feigning injury, and players leaving the pitch like they have just stepped out of a housewives salon! It doesn't inspire me that much anymore. Oh and Kevin Morales' golden car - was it a Rolls or a Benz!!?? Cannot remember.

That said, Everton's behaviour during these times, and its community work as a whole, are laudable and at least makes you feel like they are part of the fabric of the city.

But the punishment from Heysel was also in particular against the English FA for the constant crowd trouble and hooligans that came out of the woodwork for most English (domestic and international) team games.

I think it was also a real threat 5 years ago at Euro 16 with many fights involving English fans before the tournament kicked off.

So they can and could apply hard punishments but I sadly doubt it unless other country's FA's push for it.

Should there be no deduction of points for these clubs, then I think it opens the door for Moshiri and Usmanov to smash the FFP rules, would they dare punish Everton for breaking the FFP rules after letting off the scum 6 if that happens.

I listened to Dean Smith the Villa manager the other day regarding who decides who are the most powerful clubs in the premier league. He said I remember when the premier league was started and Everton were one of the powerful clubs that have brokered the deal, so he asked how come they werent invited to join the ESL. Apart from Arsenal Everton have the longest unbroken record of being part of the top division.

So I would say to those amongst the 14 who are undecided about whether the 6 should be punished, then don't start crying when something similar is drawn up by these clubs as as sure as night follows day it will happen again. The main opposition was not the setting up of this elitest league, it was the fact that it was a closed shop for other clubs to join. So the next time these clubs will allow teams to be promoted into the cartel, then thats everybody happy really? And I cant believe some Evertonians of all people backing this bollocks from Souness that you shouldnt punish the fans or the players as they have done nothing wrong. Well the players and the fans of clubs who were relegated because they went bust werent to blame, but the supporters through no fault of their own like Bury saw their club expelled from the football league completely.

Mirallas wheels was a Gold Bentley if I remember correctly Barry. I thought football had jumped the shark back then!

How wrong I was, we were practically naifs in those innocent days. World cups in Qatar, FFP (snort), the super league - the writing it has been on the wall for a long long time.

This concept of the ESL was motivated by financial greed, and therefore I think each of the 6 clubs should be punished with a large financial fine that would create a fund that should be distributed to the other 86 league clubs, semi-professional clubs and to grass-roots football in general. The size of the fine should be a kick in the shins, a rabbit-punch to the kidneys and a slap to the chops - but it shouldn't cause any of those 6 clubs to be put under a level of duress that is going to threaten the club as the fans of those clubs should not be made to suffer.

I'm picking a number from the thinnest of airs but something like £25 million per club would make a £150 million fund for the UK; if that was filtered successfully to clubs in the pyramid that will have struggled hugely over the last 12 months then this whole episode will have managed to somehow resolve itself by helping the infrastructure of football... and isn't that what those charlatans like Perez and Agnelli and their EPL counterparts claimed they were hoping to do by creating the ESL in the first place?

Let's not forget these bastards not only did this all in secret, while nodding and pretending everything was OK in Premier league, Uefa and ECA meetings, for months if not longer. Then, they deliberately announced this on a Sunday night and had filed the lawsuits in England, Italy and Spain in an attempt to stop their plan being prevented by the Premier league and Uefa. It was cold, calculated, underhand and they have to be punished.

Of all the comments on this thread, I think yours is the one we all need to remember.

This attempt to exit the league, leave it in a chaotic state, while padding the pockets of the "big boys" was calculated and here's the buzz word for me:

Premeditated.

It was an undercover operation months in the making.

That alone shows how these clubs acted in a bottom-feeding, pond-scum, weaselly manner.

All these calls about employees, players, etc. being hurt through sanctions? My family and I have a saying:

When Mickey Mantle strikes out, the whole team loses.

Sorry, life is difficult and unfair. Your employers acted horrifically, and they simply must be punished.

Again, premeditated.

Thank you Dan for that post.

I was working with a Man U season ticket holder earlier today and he was saying a similar thing. He is only 1 voice I know but interesting that the fans of the traitors seem to be thinking the same thing as many of us.

Know where you are coming from. Moshiri was probably trying to capitalise financing by being on the right side of all this. In the coming months I shall abandon of scepticism of 'The Peoples Club ' as it is rammed down the throats of the Breakaway six, instead of my mine , which for years felt as if someone was patting me on the head.

With a bit of luck Bill will end up as Chairman of the Premier League and Denise will be in the running for the Chief Executive role. It might do no good, but many Everton fans would be in favour of it.

It will interesting to see Paul the Esk. analysis of the finances of these Breakaway Clubs as a reason for what they attempted. In his analysis of the affects of Covid the effects where stark for these overcommitted Clubs. I heard on the Radio analysis of some of the Europen gaints involved ;Juventus has borrowing of 1 billion Euro, Barcelona 500 million. It was suggested that the reason for the Breakaway was motivated by the affects of Covid and a urgent need for financal stablity. .

John Henrys motives for his apology where financial panic , as their attempt has worsened their stablity.

We are hearing the specious argument that these clubs drive the bulk of TV income. This too is arrant nonsense. They only drive the TV income by virtue of their league positions which have been financed largely by their unfair share of the money coming into the game.

What I mean by that is we have let these clubs rule for years and done nothing.

I seen above someone posted it seems only Everton are not scared of these clubs but everyone is.

Our statement had to go out because without these 6 clubs we won't be getting a stadium as all revenue will fall massively.

This is not a criticism of Moshiri and it was also discussed on talksport yesterday. He was spot on with what he said but he was protecting his interests like the big 6 were, but in his defence he had to.

He had to because that is the position the big 6 have put him in previous to the breaking news and all of his investment would be useless if they left the league or were thrown out.

Fan power should have been far more vocal for years. Everyone wanted Leicester to win the league when it was close because we all knew it was needed for football. It was fresh.

These clubs are on voting panels which over the years has decided on fixtures, travelling, Kick off times etc. That affects all of the other clubs and all the benefits the "elite" clubs get will grow and grow.

The best thing about this is fans who have been in denial may be woken and keep fighting to share football as a sport.

The majority of my posts since joining ToffeeWeb have been in consideration of the bigger picture and I am going to keep at it until football is at least reasonable because we can't win a trophy while football is what it is.

COYB

This could be an opportunity. I won't hold my breath, but it could be.

Yes, it was a Bentley.

The world cup in Qatar is just ludicrous on so many levels.

But, they have the money!

This is why I don't hype players and may seem like I don't rate them all but compared to the "elite" teams in this league I don't rate many.

Its plainly obvious we cannot have top players for long unless they have deficiancies like injurys or lack of pace etc for the elite.

Its plainly obvious when we have a top player because these clubs are all over them and the media help it along.

Until that changes its always going to be a difficult season for us and will probably end in disappointments.

I always feel like I might aswell highlight the divide because its a bigger problem than any problem we have on the pitch.

The ludicrous spin involves not punishing innocent fans and staff sidestepping the fact these same people supported hoovering up of top talent with money the owners didn't have.

The new scam is dead long live the old scam

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-04-19/uefa-is-said-to-discuss-eu6b-financing-proposal-from-centricus

Pre-prepared apologies then reeled out to deal with the known outrage.

We all know that this is down to the owners, nothing to do with fans or the players, so if teams that have been put into administration have had points deducted, why are these six not having points deducted.

You cannot have one rule for the haves, and another for the have nots.

Then I read about Florentino Perez's latest interview...
Link

"It cannot be that in England, the six lose money, and 14 make money. In Spain the top three lose money, and the others make money. It cannot continue - at the moment the rich are those who are losing money."

Stop spending so much money then!

If the likes of your club didn't sign galacticos for obscene money there would still be top teams in the world, there would still be top players in the world. And you wouldn't be in huge debt.

Status would be based on history and current performance. And current performance would be based on good management, not complete mismanagement as is the case right now.

“It is not just a chosen few. The 15 clubs founder members are those who have earned it. The clubs who have made UCL semis and finals, and who have fans all around the world”.

What exactly have Spurs done to warrant entry? Spurs didn't earn the right to gain entry, in fact Spurs have done nothing to earn the right to gain entry.

What's that saying again “One swallow doesn't make a summer”. Well “One champions league final” doesn't warrant entry to a super league.

Spurs ...........big club my arse!

Of course, as you say, the simple answer is to spend less money, and most of the money is spent on eye-watering wages for the same players who are posting "football is nothing without the fans" memes.

Questions are being asked about football right now, but I'm not sure they're the right questions.

Actually, talking of questions, could someone tell me the arguments against a salary cap? I can see one - if a team gets relegated they would need time to adjust to a lower salary cap, and I can see the argument that a successful club should be allowed to spend its money how it sees fit, but other than those? How would it damage the game?

That means that, if 6 clubs don't agree with a proposed punishment, it won't happen.

I wonder where that idea came from?

Another way you can look at it is, those 6 clubs will not be allowed to have a right to vote on the punishment. It would be like a judge sitting in on an offence he had committed, and then setting his own sentence.

They may have a right to try and defend themselves, but I very much doubt they would be able to have a say with a vote.

I am sure I read somewhere that 13 out of the14 clubs wanted swift punishment handed out, with just one club voting against it... has anyone else heard similar? I would love to know who that one club was who said No.

Even in a Contract there would be caveats, ifs and buts and maybes as the ESL was not a fully functioning entity at the time of signing up.

Please give us a write-up, Paul, and your knowledge on this.

It's 2/3 required, so that's 14 clubs in a 20 club league needed to carry a change like points deduction or fine. Major changes also need an independent tribunal, probably including legal input. They can also vote on expulsion, but I'd be surprised if they did. Delighted though

They voted against the proposal to move to five substitutes remember

I would have thought the greedy ones would stay in the EPL, with fines and or points punishments - lost appeals could easily reverse the penalties. And now Sky contractual / financial implications.

It's Liverpool FC. The root sum of fuck all will happen to them. Balanced against their actions in the past, they will get away with it.

It's not as if anyone died.

They can be points deducted and fined to an unlimited level.

When is the league applying the rules?

The revenue from tv rights worldwide would be cut in half without the big 6. Sadly ya West brom, Brighton or Sheffield United don't cut it in multibillion pound tv contract negotiations.

I just can't agree with your view at all. Henry Winter as a fully paid-up member of the elite club narrative, tweets:

Lot of talk about sanctions for the six plotters. No to point deductions; that punishes players & fans who fought owners. Definitely remove arrogant old execs from committees; demand new faces who respect PL/CL/pyramid. Govt may demand fan on board. nb: The 6 booed when the fans are back.

Following Portsmouth's punishment he tweeted:

Pompey's nine-point deduction confirmed. Sad for fans, innocent victims, but the wages were mad. Other clubs might temper their own extravagance now.

All the clubs that have had a reduction in points over the last dozen or so years, may have deserved the punishment, but their supporters didn't deserve the falls in grace their teams suffered as a result.

If Moshiri overloaded Everton with unsustainable debt, there's not a dicky bird Evertonians could do about it, if we went into administration we'd fall down the slippery slopes too. Fans are there to support the team, if the administrators and owners run the club badly, then the club suffers the consequences and so too the fans by association, whether they behaved properly or not.

What the media in general and a lot of fans too, forget, is that these six clubs sought an unfair advantage by creating an even greater financial disparity between themselves and the rest of their rivals.

There has to be a form of punishment that will deter any of the clubs rather than purely the directors and owners from ever being so cavalier with the game in the future. Large fines won't cut it, they'll write it off as a tax loss or some such.

If Perez is correct and the European Super League is not dead but slightly dazed, how many of the 'super' clubs fans' will shed a tear for the rest of us? It'll be an interesting few months and whilst I expect nothing to happen regards punishment, I'll be surprised if an equally abhorrent European Super League, administered by UEFA isn't up and ready by the start of next season.

Punishing Man City, Manchester United, Liverpool and the rest would be rank hypocrisy from the Premier League

I thought Bill's piece on Sunday was ill-advised because the more that Everton FC sticks its head above the parapet, the more likely we'll get articles like the one you linked.

Journalists that are embedded with the greedy gang will seek out anything to deflect and obscure the true nature of what the greedy gang proposed.

Their plans for the ESL are not the same as the formation of the Premier League – no matter how often the Journalists say that it is; this was and is a real power grab to close off any chance of any club outside of the usual suspects being able to replace them as 'top dogs' in any competition at home or abroad.

I've been vocal enough in the seeming hypocrisy of the Premier League and Uefa. There is a degree of irony in the fact they are fighting the monster they created as I have described it.

But, at least those competitions were not a closed shop. Promotion and relegation as well as qualification in theory is there for all.

Ask Newcastle, Aston Villa, Leeds United, Manchester City and Leicester City.

Yes, Uefahas tried to safeguard the elite, "the club" over the years; that is what the Champions League design sought to try and guarantee.

But it wasn't a closed shop in the way this was being proposed. Okay, not a complete closed shop, but 75% permanent membership regardless of performance.