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Saints eye Davies move

| Tuesday, 22 September 2020 114comments  |  Jump to last
Tom Davies has emerged as a target for Southampton who are looking for midfield reinforcements following their losing start to the season.

The Saints have lost their opening two matches and, according to Hampshire Live, Ralph Hasenhuttl has pledged to bring in a "No. 6" before the transfer deadline.

Talksport and now Sky Sports are claiming that Southampton want to take Davies on loan with an option to buy now that he has fallen down the pecking order at Everton following the arrivals of Allan and Abdoulaye Doucouré.

The speculation has been played down by Paddy Boyland of The Athletic who, speaking on The Blue Room Extra podcast, questioned the validity of the source of the story and stressed that the word from Everton was that no discussions have yet taken place regarding Davies and a move to St Mary's Stadium



Reader Comments (114)

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Mal van Schaick
1 Posted 22/09/2020 at 15:01:24
Cash in and use the money for another Ancelotti target.
Ian Bennett
2 Posted 22/09/2020 at 15:02:11
He needs to move on. Southampton is a good club that would offer him regular football.

Fee would be interesting after rejecting our bids for that Danish journeyman who was in his last year of contract.

Robert Leigh
3 Posted 22/09/2020 at 15:24:56
I don't think he is worth it, but something around £15M would be suitable for all concerned.

At his age, he needs game time, and without being too mean to the lad, hopefully one or two 'new' youngsters are in a position to be going past him in the next 12 months (Adeniran, Onyango, etc).

How Liverpool managed to get £10M from Wolves for a defender who was 18 with no Premier League football is beyond me!

Sam Hoare
4 Posted 22/09/2020 at 15:34:38
If Hasenhuttl likes him and is going to play him then this would be a great move for Davies. Hasenhuttl is a very good coach I think and Tom would very possibly improve if playing regularly under his management. Then next summer we either sell him or get a better player back hopefully.

We are well stocked in the middle now with Allan, Doucouré, Gbamin, Delph, Sigurdsson, Gomes, Iwobi, Gordon and possibly someone like Onyango getting a few minutes here or there.

Kevin Prytherch
5 Posted 22/09/2020 at 15:38:39
Loan – but no option to buy.
Kenny Smith
6 Posted 22/09/2020 at 15:39:06
This move makes sense. I think he's ran his race with us. I don't think he's anywhere near the level that Ancelloti wants his midfielders to be.

If he stays, then his career will almost certainly go backwards. Despite not being the greatest, he is still a Premier League midfielder with over 100 (yes one hundred) appearances for us.

A loan's no good for us. We've seen the likes of Tosun, Niasse and Bolasie go on loan and they always come back valued at less than when they went. Cash in.

Kieran Kinsella
7 Posted 22/09/2020 at 15:42:37
Desperation move from Everton because, financially speaking, he's the last midfielder we should be shifting. Young, not injury-prone, good attitude, low wage.

Yeah, he isn't great but I suspect we are just trying to shift him as he's the only person anyone wants and it's because of the reasons I stated above.

Financially it would be much better to shift any of Besic, Bolasie, Bernard, Iwobi etc. But seemingly no-one wants them and we need to balance the books as best we can. So off Tom goes.

Tony Everan
8 Posted 22/09/2020 at 16:03:18
With his lowish wages, no wonder clubs are wanting to loan him.

Southampton is a good club for him, it will be very interesting to see how he gets on down there.

Tommy Carter
9 Posted 22/09/2020 at 16:22:49
@7 Kieran. Excellent points well made. He's a player we should be hanging on to I'm afraid. He's homegrown, an Evertonian and can come in and do a steady job wherever we need him to.

No, he's not going to improve the starting XI as it is but he's an incredibly valuable squad player in my opinion.

I certainly don't want him to move on before he's had ample opportunity to play around better players in a completely new midfield.

Bad move from EFC this unless the player himself demands the move and feels he can further his own career elsewhere. In that instance, I commend him but would also challenge him to try and fight for a place in our starting line-up. I don't think Gomes has done enough to make that position his yet

Mike Gaynes
10 Posted 22/09/2020 at 16:30:27
Good move for both sides IMO. If he's going to develop, now is the time, and he won't get the minutes with us. At Southampton he can step into the hole left by Højbjerg -- which the club hasn't been able to fill with a new signing -- and Hasenhuttl is the best manager he could hope for.

If there's an option to buy in this deal, it'll be interesting to see at what price.

Robert Tressell
11 Posted 22/09/2020 at 16:32:13
During the Man Utd glory years, they had a good number of fairly average players (Butt, Phil Neville, O'Shea) who knew and understood the club, put a shift in and were content to play second fiddle with no lessening of their motivation.

Tom strikes me as this sort of player for us. He is not a starter. He will play a decent number of games. He will not cause a fuss.

Also, he's better than his performances of last year suggest (along with everyone else). Calvert-Lewin and Holgate will get England caps soon despite being shite. That is because, after a few years a fruitless toil, it clicked. Partly because they stuck at it and worked, partly because Dunc lifted their spirits and they started to play in a less dysfunctional team.

Davies is worth keeping.

Joe Corgan
12 Posted 22/09/2020 at 16:38:55
I wouldn't let him go anywhere at the moment. We're not massively overstocked on players in the centre of the park.

Ancelotti's chosen three seem to be Allan, Doucouré and Gomes. They're not going to play every game, especially if we go deep in the cups. Who comes in? Delph? Always injured. Gbamin? Same. Sigurdsson? Completely different type of player. Davies is a good option.

Davies isn't going to improve simply by playing regularly – he's been doing that for two years. He'll improve by playing and training with better players, which we now have at Everton.

Give him another year or two on the bench. If he still doesn't cut the mustard, that's when it's time to let him go. Not now.

Frank Crewe
13 Posted 22/09/2020 at 16:44:06
Richard @11

How do you figure he'll get a decent number of games? He's now got Gbamin, Delph, Sigurdsson, Doucoure, Gomes and Allan in front of him. Unless we have a very bad run of injuries I don't see him getting on the pitch at all this season.

Davies has been knocking around at the club for years. Since he made his debut and scored his goal against Man City he doesn't appear to have improved at all. I'm sure if Gbamin and Delph hadn't been injured so much he would have been gone already.

It will be a good move for him. New surroundings and new teammates. A chance for proper first-team football where he isn't under constant scrutiny by the fans. It's time to bite the bullet on this one. If Everton are to improve we need more players like Allan, Doucouré and Rodriguez and less players like Tom Davies.

Colin Glassar
14 Posted 22/09/2020 at 16:53:29
I had high hopes for Tom but it's obvious now he doesn't cut the mustard with the new regime.

Sentimentality is out. Ruthless pragmatism is in – at last! If you ain't good enough...

Rod Harrington
15 Posted 22/09/2020 at 16:56:34
I agree with Robert & Joe, I'd keep him, until January at the very least. Ancelotti will improve him. Ferguson always said a good team can carry a few duds (those 3 mentioned above).

He is a Toffee, and while his performances admittedly have been disappointing, I'd still count on him more than Delph and Gbamin. Both of those will eventually be written off.

The new guys are playing great stuff but, as autumn and winter kick in, they may struggle to keep it up.

Frank Crewe
16 Posted 22/09/2020 at 16:57:09
@Kieran 7

"financially speaking, he's the last midfielder we should be shifting. Young, not injury-prone, good attitude, low wage. Yeah he isn't great "

Damned with faint praise. To all the rest of "He's a local lad" crowd. Who cares? PL football is an international big money business. We cannot expect Everton to do well if we insist on hanging on to mediocre players like Davies just because he's a local lad.

He's had more than enough opportunities to improve and show what he can do. But the fact is he has barely improved since his debut. He's as bog standard as you can get. No real pace. No great vision. Not particularly strong. Not a great tackler. Barely gets into the box. Doesn't score any goals.

If he wasn't already at the club would anyone here want to buy him? Because I certainly wouldn't.

Tommy Carter
17 Posted 22/09/2020 at 17:01:16
@16 Frank

To have players like him in your squad, local, homegrown etc, I think gives the club an enhanced sense of identity. I wouldn't swap it for a superior player but if it's between two players of similar ability, one homegrown, one not, I'd rather the homegrown player.

As a fan attending the game, I also think it enhances your level of connection to the players on the pitch who represent your club. These are things that I think improve the experience for the fan, in the absence of success or with success.

Ryan Holroyd
18 Posted 22/09/2020 at 17:03:46
Desperation from Everton... 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂

The lad's absolutely terrible.

If we get £15 million for him, I'd be staggered. Sell for anything we can and reinvest in top players.

Kieran Kinsella
19 Posted 22/09/2020 at 17:05:53
Frank,

Davies has always had players in front of him: Schneiderlin, Bernard, Delph, Gbamin, Gomes, Sigurdsson – who have all been here for a few years. Yet, for one reason or another (injury-prone players, poor form), he invariably gets a decent amount of playing time. So yeah, we have some new faces here... but I suspect he will still see action.

Jonathan Oppenheimer
20 Posted 22/09/2020 at 17:09:01
As Kieran said, in an ideal world, Davies is coming off the bench for us after or along with Sigurdsson, on low wages and with a ton of effort. But, as long as we are stuck with Iwobi and Bernard, then even with Delph and Gbamin often injured, it makes sense to give him a chance to play more and improve on loan.

If he plays well and wants to leave, then maybe we sell him for £10M or £15M, and if not, he comes back to us and we are right where we started. It's hard to imagine he loses value.

And it's not like there's that much of a drop-off from him to the other squad players, the only difference being that he can play more defensively. But then it's not like he was our defensive midfield saviour last year.

Not sure how this is a huge loss for us, other than that it's important to have homegrown players — unless we have a rash of injuries, in which case we're screwed anyway.

Frank Crewe
21 Posted 22/09/2020 at 17:12:08
Tommy 17.

Do you think Liverpool, Man City, or Chelsea fans see it like that. Keep a below average player just for local identity? I doubt it. They have become used to winning leagues and cups and they like it. They don't care where their players come from as long as they keep on winning.

We brought in Carlo to stop the rot at Everton. He is used to working with top quality players like Allan and Doucoure and Rodriguez. Davies is not top quality and you don't have to be Carlo to see that all the coaching in the world won't change it.

Football is a ruthless business. There is no room for sentimentality. Clubs don't pay players thousands of pounds a week just because they live nearby. Prove your worth or out you go, local boy or not.

Rob Birks
22 Posted 22/09/2020 at 17:16:57
Somebody tell me I'm wrong but if Liverpool are quoting £20M+ for Brewster then why are some of you saying £15M tops for Tom Davies. I agree wholeheartedley that he is not a great player but, if they are asking £20M for a first-team reserve at best, then why don't we?
Fran Mitchell
23 Posted 22/09/2020 at 17:18:29
Davies could probably do with a move. But if Southampton want him caus they need a 'No 6', they're gonna be disappointed, He just isn't.

But maybe a move could see him develop and improve – but I'd rather him in the squad than Delph, but I guess we'll be stuck with him till his contract runs.

Colin Glassar
24 Posted 22/09/2020 at 17:22:49
Lads, the rs have released loads of local lads over the years as soon as they realise they won't make the grade at the highest level. I suppose that's why they are where they are and we are where we are. Top teams don't wallow in this sentimental claptrap!
Frank Crewe
25 Posted 22/09/2020 at 17:25:18
I remember when Barkley was here people couldn't wait to get rid of him even though he was a much better player than Davies. He was a local lad as well but apparently he didn't sweat enough. (Just like Lukaku.)

But now that bog-standard Davies might be shown the door people jump to his defence because apparently he does sweat enough.

Get real guys. Davies wouldn't make the first team bench in any of the top eight clubs in the Premier League. If Southampton think they can get something out of him then good luck to them.

Personally, I think they are the ones making the mistake, not us.

Tommy Carter
26 Posted 22/09/2020 at 17:28:30
Yes but Frank, we still have a lot worse on our books than Tom who we need to get shut of first.

He's good enough to be a squad player for us at present. People are talking Gbamin on here. Makes me laugh. How good do we think he's going to be? If it's anything based on what we briefly saw of him in an Everton jersey then I wouldn't hold out much hope. Added to the fact we don't know what impact injuries will have upon him.

Gomes for me is an 8 or 9 out of 10 for one game and then a 5 or 6 out of 10 for the next dozen. I'm yet to see any consistency with him.

So then we have Gylfi who is obviously a better player than Tom, but will be on bigger wages and is saleable. Even still, for all his technical ability, he performs poorly far too often.

So I take your point but you must know something I don't, Frank. And that must be there being a long line of top quality players waiting to join our club.

One ability of Klopp is to actually create a system and style of coaching which really brings out the best in players. Alexander-Arnold looks double the player for Liverpool than he does England. Few will have thought Robertson was a top-quality player when he signed. Likewise Matip or Joe Gomez. Firmino was playing as a Number 10 with little consistency. Milner, a has-been under Rodgers.

We saying Ancelotti and players like Allan, Rodriguez and Doucouré surrounding Tom are not even capable of enhancing his performances? Only one way to find out, isn't there?

Kieran Kinsella
27 Posted 22/09/2020 at 17:31:48
Frank/Colin

Granted he's no good but we have good starters and a bunch of mediocre back-ups. Since we can't afford a great team of subs, I'd prefer to offload injury-prone mediocre players on £100k a week versus a fit mediocre player on much less.

Frank Sheppard
28 Posted 22/09/2020 at 17:32:17
A loan move could be great for him, and re-assess afterwards. His heart is certainly in the right place.
Mike Allison
29 Posted 22/09/2020 at 17:39:01
He's not a ‘Number 6' at all though. I used to think he might turn into one but I've changed my mind.
Colin Glassar
30 Posted 22/09/2020 at 17:39:23
I agree, I'd get rid of a few before Tom, starting with Iwobi, but sooner or later the lad will have to go and who knows, it might be a great chance for him?
Dan Nulty
31 Posted 22/09/2020 at 17:56:08
I agree, Colin.

Hopefully, a loan deal and he comes back a better player. Much rather we get rid of 5 or 6 more but I suppose no-one will pay them the same wages they are robbing us of.

Good luck to him. Perhaps before he gets used to playing in red and white, he might actually pass to his teammates by accident.

Brian Williams
32 Posted 22/09/2020 at 17:58:14
It is only a loan deal for a season.
Richard Mason
33 Posted 22/09/2020 at 18:06:52
I think he needs a loan, I'd love to see him play further up the field, press a back line he has energy.

He does try to pass the ball forward in fairness to him. If he can nail down a spot and play a full season there it would be great for him.

I do agree with Frank, if he didn't come from our youth set up, would anyone here be happy to sign him

Stephen Vincent
34 Posted 22/09/2020 at 18:07:09
I agree that there should be no sentimentality but Tom can and will do a job for us. If Southampton think he is a replacement for Højbjerg then they are going to be very disappointed as we have been asking him to fill in for Gana.

The reason that Calvert-Lewin and Mason have improved so much is that they are now square pegs in square holes. Carlo & Dunc has recognised how they are best deployed and played them that way for a period of time.

I did think that Tom would benefit from Allan as he always looked at his best playing alongside Gana but obviously with other incomings he has lost a starting place. That is not to say he is not still a valuable member of the squad. He spent most of last season covering for the work-shy and shiftless prima donnas who should be out of the club way before him, never hid or complained, he is just 22 for god's sake.

None of us have a clue how good or bad Gbamin is going to be so we need to keep Tom, say thank you for putting upwith all the shite last season and give him a pay rise. It may well be that, in a year, things have not turned out in his favour and it is time for him to move on, but not now.

Mike Gaynes
35 Posted 22/09/2020 at 18:23:59
Stephen #34, you say:

"Tom can and will do a job for us."

Yet in your next sentence you predict he will disappoint Southampton as a defensive midfielder.

So what job is it that you believe he can do for us?

No one denies his splendid work ethic or character, but unless he somehow raises his level of play, I cannot see a place for him in this squad except as an 88th-minute "energy" sub. Can you?

Harry Hockley
36 Posted 22/09/2020 at 18:33:51
Best news of the summer so far! I’ll even drive him down there myself!
Tommy Carter
37 Posted 22/09/2020 at 18:43:34
Can nobody see that, if he slots into a midfield alongside Allan, Doucoure and James, that it may actually improve him?

He's played a lot of football in teams losing almost as many as they win and with players without the character or ability to try and make things happen.

Put it this way, who was dragging Tom along in the midfield these last 2 years? Who was demanding more of him? Who was leading by example?

Stephen Brown
38 Posted 22/09/2020 at 18:46:19
I couldn't agree more with the posters who say try to get rid of Delph, Besic, Walcott way before Tom Davies.

He certainly has his limitations but, as Carlo has stated, it's important to keep a local core within the squad.

Drew O’Neall
39 Posted 22/09/2020 at 18:47:55
This is one you leave until the last day of the window in case nothing else transpires.
Mwila Mwenya
40 Posted 22/09/2020 at 19:06:58
Everyone has a price. There are others who need to leave before Tom but are there offers for them?

If Tom doesn't make it for Everton as a 'local lad', surely there will be others from the academy who will fill that spot.

How many local lads are turning out for Man City, Man Utd or Liverpool? At best a team is lucky if they have 2 locals so we have to believe we will have at least 2 coming through from the Academy just that Tom Davies probably shouldn't be one of those 2 if we want to progress!

Paul McCoy
41 Posted 22/09/2020 at 19:15:01
Davies is not a bad player, but he's not Allan or Doucouré. He's not even a Sigurdsson. I'd love him to have a season on loan at Saints, start every week and come back hungry.

Calvert-Lewin improved loads by putting the work in and also starting every week. No reason Davies can't do the same as he certainly always seems to work hard.

Paul Smith
42 Posted 22/09/2020 at 19:19:15
My boss, a Saints season ticket holder, just text me this:

“If we sign Tom Davies, I give up.”

By the way, he was laughing at me when we were linked with Højbjerg.


Stephen Vincent
43 Posted 22/09/2020 at 19:27:06
Mike #35,

Tom is no Højbjerg, Gana or Allan – he just does not have the strength of tackle – but, if you want him to do the box-to-box stuff alongside one of those guys, he might just, given a run out in the same position, turn out to be brilliant.

Square pegs, square holes. Calvert-Lewin and Holgate had loads of detractors on here until they got a run out in the position they were best suited to.

Daniel A Johnson
44 Posted 22/09/2020 at 19:31:52
Davies should be nowhere near our first team as he's nowhere near the level of Doucouré or Allan and never will be. But he's a useful squad player on low wages.

I guess it lies with Tom now: is he happy to play a supporting role for Everton or does he want to move to a smaller club for regular Premier League starts?

Barry Rathbone
45 Posted 22/09/2020 at 19:34:48
I remember when Tom had his Man City moment amidst proclamations of the Second Coming by fans and pundits... only for Unsworth to let slip he was surprised at his step up.

As he's done virtually nothing since, it seems Unsy called it right. Time for Tom to try his luck in less demanding surroundings; Southampton could be just the place.

John Keating
46 Posted 22/09/2020 at 19:38:30
There's a few who should be shifted before Tom. Personally I would keep him here. A full season under Ancelotti may well sort him out one way or another.

If we are fortunate enough to get rid of Delph, Iwobi, Bolasie and Walcott this window, we would need Tom.

Obviously it's Ancelotti's decision but, if he has to go, then only on a loan, I hope.

Tommy Carter
47 Posted 22/09/2020 at 19:40:30
@45 Barry, can you please share with us the quote from Unsworth? Preferably a link.

Interesting that from Rhino. Especially considering he gave Tom his first start in an Everton shirt.

Tom was 18 when he scored that goal vs Man City. Over a year before, while playing for Unsworth in the U21s, he was invited to train with the full England squad.

Interesting that Unsworth was so taken aback.

Len Hawkins
48 Posted 22/09/2020 at 19:40:54
Vincent #27

Clubs don't want injury prone players on £100k, except Everton. Hopefully the days of buying players only fit for dog food has gone.

Davies either sinks or swims with this loan; if this passing lark suddenly clicks with him, then good news.

Frank Crewe
49 Posted 22/09/2020 at 19:46:47
Tommy @26,

This is not a question of who we would like to get rid of first. Carlo has a list of the players he would be prepared to part with. No doubt Tom Davies is on that list. It would appear we have had an offer for him so an opportunity has arisen to shorten that list and make room in the squad for another player who may be of more use to the club. Or just make the squad more manageable.

Just Like Niasse was, a good many of the players the club wants out are on long contracts and high wages. They will not move and the club can't make them. They are here for the duration of their contracts.

So, as I said, get rid of the players that are surplus to requirements as best we can and let the others rot in the deadwood until their contracts end. We can't use him but Southampton can. He'll get games and it may improve him. It's a win-win for all concerned.

Although I would be interested to see the response of the Saints fans. I'll bet they're as "pleased" to get him as we would be if he wasn't already here.

Jay Wood
[BRZ]

50 Posted 22/09/2020 at 19:53:14
Whilst I understand the sentiment that some express – that there are other players that need to be moved on before sending Tom Davies out the door - in the real world things don't work like that, do they?

Different buyers from different clubs don't stand in an orderly queue waiting their turn to buy (or loan) a desired target. Similarly, Everton I'm sure hasn't drawn up a numbered list by which they will only contemplate selling/loaning player # 2 on the list after first seeing off player # 1, etc.

You sell/loan as and when you get an offer. Management then needs to take the decision in the best interests of the club and the team.

Personally, I would be interested – like others – in seeing how Tom performs alongside the likes of Allan, Doucouré and James. It wouldn't surprise me if given the chance Tom could offer more in a set up in which quick short passing from back to front is a greater asset than the likes of Gomes and Sigurdsson more ponderous play and occasionally effective raking passes.

Andrew Keatley
51 Posted 22/09/2020 at 20:17:33
Robert (11) - Nicky Butt was far from a dud. In fact, there was an 18-month period when he was a key player for Manchester United and England, and it was only a series of knee and ankle injuries that changed that.

For everyone suggesting we offload other midfielders (Besic, Delph, Iwobi, Sigurdsson) ahead of Tom Davies – well, you can only offload players if there is interest from other clubs.

We all know that the club are trying to move on our peripheral squad members, but it isn't easy. Besic is on £30k per week wages – and as he's probably not going to sign anywhere for less, and there are better/cheaper options for clubs looking for central midfielders, so moving him on is difficult – even on a free transfer.

Same goes for all the other players we have on inflated wages. Expecting the club to be able to remove a large proportion of this group of unwanted and overpaid misfits in one fell swoop is at best wishful thinking and at worst fiscally disingenuous.

Christy Ring
52 Posted 22/09/2020 at 20:22:02
So we get rid of Davies, a young energetic player, who ended up as our defensive midfielder last season, always showed for the ball, and gave 100% effort. I believe he's still good enough for the bench, to cover our midfield.

Our big earners are the ones who should be moved on, they offer nothing, but sadly no one will buy, or match the wages of Sigurdsson, Delph, Walcott, Ramirez, Besic, or Bolasie. Let's be honest, I'd prefer to have Tom on the bench, ahead of Iwobi.

Bobby Mallon
53 Posted 22/09/2020 at 20:33:56
Christy @53,

Iwobi and Davis are completely different players... but I understand your thought process.
Soren Moyer
54 Posted 22/09/2020 at 21:00:08
Hot damn! Take the money and run!!
Fran Mitchell
55 Posted 22/09/2020 at 21:14:00
Fact is, we don't want players on the bench who will weaken the team if they play. As it is, Davies (and a few others) will weaken the team.

"He's not bad backup" is an antiquated view of how to have a true top-level Premier League team.

Look at our neighbours - they have one of the best midfields in Europe, so what do they do? The strengthen it by buying one of the best midfielders in Europe.

Should Henderson not play, they have Wijnaldum. Should Thiago not play, in comes Fabinho. You think if any game comes along, Liverpool will be worried if their midfield is Wijnaldum, Fabinho, and Keita? No, they'll be fine. Even though they're not first choice, they're quality.

Should Allan or Doucouré not play any game and Davies stepped in, we'd all be much less confident of victory.

That sums up why he doesn't have a future with the club.

Paul Birmingham
56 Posted 22/09/2020 at 21:27:55
Time waits for no one, in life as well as football, and I think this, if true, is a good opportunity for Tom to start fresh and rebuild his football career.

I've wanted him to succeed at Everton but, for me, he won't make it. Now, he's further down the starting order and so time to be realistic and look forward.

Southampton have a good manager, and it represents if true a good opportunity for Tom.

I don't see a sale but a loan deal with option to buy, but let's see what happens.

Kieran Kinsella
57 Posted 22/09/2020 at 21:34:31
Soton fans on Twitter:

“He is not the dream signing is he?”
“I won't be THAT upset if we get him”
“The best we can hope for I guess”

They seem super-stoked...

Soren Moyer
58 Posted 22/09/2020 at 21:37:53
Fran #56. Spot on. That is what we need if we are an ambitious club. Having likes of Iwobi, Davis, and Delph as backups is a step backward IMO. We need better.
Jay Woods
59 Posted 22/09/2020 at 21:40:25
For his fashion sense alone – or lack thereof – he should be flogged. By which I mean, both sold and literally, flogged.

By the same measure, West Brom should be deducted 12 points for their hideous kits this season.

Kevin Molloy
60 Posted 22/09/2020 at 21:42:15
The fact such a good coach is interested in him is a compliment to Tom. He has his faults, but he also has qualities. He matched Liverpool's midfield at Goodison last season, no easy task. He is capable of raising his game to a high level.

I would not be keen on a permanent deal; a loan with no option to buy I think would suit us.

Jamie Crowley
61 Posted 22/09/2020 at 22:03:05
This list of players in front of Davies?

Gbamin – Oft-injured, don't know if he'll come back

Delph – continually injured, can't be counted on, Davies is a better player

Sigurdsson – Probably first choice off the bench central midfielder, but will be shown the exit door the second his contract expires

Doucouré – Ahead of Davies

Gomes – Ahead of Davies, but lest we forget, was far worse at points than Tom. Tom in a few games was our best midfielder last season

Allan – Ahead of Davies

James – Light-years ahead of most players on earth

Bernard – toss up. Depends what you need in any given game – silk or a hammer

Iwobi – Colin Glassar. Nuff said.

So that means, but my reckoning, for central midfield Davies is our 5th/6th choice behind Gomes, Allan, James, and Sigurdsson. Gbamin we can't even have in the conversation as we have no idea if he can play effectively after his injury.

We are one injury away from Tom Davies being first off the bench for central midfield positions, and that's assuming Gilfy doesn't start shitting the bed again!

And we want to sell him? Madness! You need depth FFS!

Loan him. But sell? No way. You don't sell a 22-year-old who can contribute to the team cause while keeping dogshit instead.

Maybe Carlo would prefer to put Gordon central instead of Davies if he had to? I don't know?

But I just can't abide selling Davies. Loan him for games, fine. But sell?

Kieran Kinsella
62 Posted 22/09/2020 at 22:03:56
Niasse's bullying basically destroyed his career.
Jay Woods
63 Posted 22/09/2020 at 22:08:49
Jamie Crowley, I would actually play Gbamin in his wheelchair / motorised bathtub ahead of Davies as things stand.
Pat Kelly
64 Posted 22/09/2020 at 22:13:14
Reinforcement? Really?
Christy Ring
65 Posted 22/09/2020 at 22:14:38
Fran #56,

At least if Davies had either Allan or Doucouré beside him, it would help his game.

Davies had to play most of last season with Sigurdsson and Iwobi beside him, neither could tackle, had no work rate, nor looked for the ball. He had to do all the donkey work, as defensive midfielder, which he's not.

Wouldn't it be great to see how he'd play this season, even off the bench, in his natural position, of attacking midfielder?

Stephen Vincent
66 Posted 22/09/2020 at 22:43:52
Fran #56, trouble is we are not going to get 11 Champions League players as back-up, are we? So we have to be realistic, make the best of what we have, and wait until we can do better.

Tell me who would you get, who will come to us, who we can afford, and who is happy to wait for one of our starters to get injured? We can't offer European competition so we keep Tom and move on.

As I said maybe next year if he does not improve. I say again – he is 22!!!

Frank Wade
67 Posted 22/09/2020 at 22:48:33
Jamie C, agree with your analysis. Tom is very decent backup, always giving his best, making mistakes, costly at times, but overall contributing positively.

Jay Woods, inane comment, embarassing yourself. Nothing in Gbamin's brief contribution suggested he was a better player, certainly better at getting injured.

Soren Moyer
68 Posted 22/09/2020 at 23:19:26
Stephen #65. I would take Watford's backups instead of whoever we have on the bench! Do we have anyone like their young Sarr on it!?
Derek Knox
69 Posted 22/09/2020 at 23:27:30
Let's face it, Tom has had probably more chances that his football deserved, but clinging on that goal against Man City (4-0) he was being hailed as the New Messiah in Midfield.

How wrong can we be? As Colin G said, let's ditch this sentimentality, he's a local lad etc... In reality, how many chances (mostly anonymous or unfruitful) does he need to prove that he is not what we either need, or need to hang on to!

Jack Convery
70 Posted 23/09/2020 at 00:17:32
Best for him to move right now. He has stagnated at Everton but, in my opinion, would be better off having a loan out and come back with his confidence restored. Coming back after a season of poor form from Southampton is not an option for him – he needs to succeed.
Steve Ferns
71 Posted 23/09/2020 at 00:42:20
Interesting how many value Peter Reid but yet overlook his view of Tom Davies, whereby he said that he had all the attributes to be a top midfielder in an article for the Liverpool Echo in November 2019:

Peter Reid lists Tom Davies's best attributes as midfielder continues to impress

I don't think Tom will leave, and that he will bide his time and take his opportunity in our first team when it presents itself. It's not the first time he's been well down the pecking order, but as he did last season, he will fight his way back into contention. And remember when that article was written, we were dire, and Tom had been behind André Gomes, Gylfi Sigurdsson, Alex Iwobi, Fabian Delph, Morgan Schneiderlin, and Jean-Phillipe Gbamin.

Sure, there's better players in his way now, but the season is much condensed, with two games a week (practically) non-stop, and injury and fatigue will hand him opportunities. Once again, Tom will take them, as he will not sulk, he will work hard, and he will be kept on as a result.

Added to the fact that he's on (relatively) low wages, why would you get rid of him and keep say Fabian Delph? Delph is also far more likely to sulk, not work hard to get back in the side, and as always, he is injury-prone and can't be relied on when needed.

Derek Thomas
72 Posted 23/09/2020 at 01:24:32
Sometimes you have to move to improve, a change is as good as a rest etc. Loan – if we must, but I'd prefer loan to buy or straight up cash.

It won't do him any harm, might do him some good, at least he'll get a pay rise and a change of scene out of it. I can't see it coming back to bite us in the bum to any serious extent.

Stephen Vincent
73 Posted 23/09/2020 at 01:54:49
Soren #69, no we don't but then if you think that:

1. Sarr would come to us to sit on the bench... or

2. We would pay the £40M Watford are currently asking for....

Then dream on. Get real.

Lester Yip
74 Posted 23/09/2020 at 02:48:52
I share the same opinion as others to keep Davies for now. With better players around him, he can focus more on box to box rather than playing a killer pass or doing a Gueye or an Allan. If we need to protect a lead, I'd prefer Davies than Sigurdsson, Bernard or Iwobi for sure.

I still think he has something to offer.

David Ellis
75 Posted 23/09/2020 at 05:02:27
Too many on here are falling for the "false choice fallacy".

Yes I may prefer to "shift" higher wage earners instead of Davies. But this isn't an actual choice on the table (exactly because of the high wages).
So the actual choice is (as far as we know) we let Davies go or we do not. Given that choice, it's an easy decision: Teeth meet hand and bite off.

We are stuffed full of midfielders, and the quality of the side is on the up far beyond Davies. I like him and wish him well.

David Woodworth
76 Posted 23/09/2020 at 07:21:45
I don't rate him, but it'll be interesting and informative to watch him if he does go.

He's had enough chances to impress and improve his gameplay, alas he's below average at best in most things he does.

Steve Brown
77 Posted 23/09/2020 at 07:55:05
Besic, Delph, Walcott and especially Sigurdsson should all be candidates before we consider loaning out / selling Davies. Senior pros, poor quality, bad role models and high salaries.

If you are serious about changing the culture of the club, you cannot afford derailers like these guys remaining in the squad.

Fran Mitchell
78 Posted 23/09/2020 at 07:58:31
One issue with the 'with better players around him' question is, well, both Holgate and Calvert-Lewin have been in the same poor team, and both gave signs that they were improving, that there was quality. Davies has been poor – his passing has been woeful, he isn't a good tackler, isn't strong or quick. I had hoped for him, but can anyone say one thing he's good at that isn't 'energitic'? I really can't think of anything.

Henderson was at a poor Sunderland team but had enough quality to stand out. Then, with good players around him, and great coaching and attitude, he has developed leaps and bound. But the basics he had before.

Of Davies's contemporaries:
Grealish is in a poor Villa, but his quality stands out;
Rice is in an incompetent West Ham team but his quality is there to see;
Ward-Prouse has been in a poor Southampton but has always been on of the bright lights;
McNeil at Burnley is the best player – the poor quality of his peers doesn't make him drop his level;
Barnes, Eze ... countless midfielders/attacking midfielders who are of a similar age and have developed and improved despite not playing in great midfields with world class managers.

If we can sell him, maybe that will give him the kick he needs to push on, maybe we'll regret, but more probably he'll find his level.

And if we could get another midfielder to really push/challenge and offer solid options, then we'll be all the better. One injury to our midfield and we're much weaker.

Maybe Lotus-Cheek on a loan with a view to buy, or someone unknown no idea.

Sigurdsspn is okay considering we struggle to sell. He'll have to get out of last season's slump, but he has had a decent level of performance in the past. Hopefully Gbamin can return, but he could probably do with a loan when he does to get match fitness.

Delph, Iwobi, Bernard, Davies, Walcott are all next to useless in my opinion.

Jim Bennings
79 Posted 23/09/2020 at 08:53:25
I don't think sending Davies out on loan for the season is a bad move. His career has started going nowhere really and, since the promise of four years ago, he's not progressing.

If he does well at Southampton, then we could get £20 million for him; if he does not do well, then that's that.

Personally, I'd say he's never gonna be more than a squad player because he just doesn't possess the attributes needed to make it at the highest level. We've let players go who were probably as good or better than Davies in recent years: Gosling, Rodwell, and Barkley spring to mind.

While we are at it, why don't we offer Palace Walcott, Bolasie and Iwobi plus cash for Zaha?

Derek Knox
80 Posted 23/09/2020 at 09:06:15
Jim @80, "While we are at it, why don't we offer Palace, Walcott, Bolasie and Iwobi plus cash for Zaha?"

Great idea in principle, because they all hail from that area and I'm sure Walcott has one of his houses there still, as probably Bolasie and Iwobi.

What's the sticking point then? Well, Palace would have to accommodate all three, would they all want to go? Then there's the millstone of their exorbitant wages, and they will not take pay cuts either.

They also know if they sit tight, they may not play either, but can watch their bank balances grow like a fruit machine that is paying out, kerching kerching!

Tony McNulty
81 Posted 23/09/2020 at 09:13:48
Jim,

I had (almost) the same thought re the offer to Palace. But would we really need to add cash to an offer which gives them three players, all of whom have represented their countries, with Bolasie and Walcott still probably having a couple of semi-productive years left?

Graham Lloyd
82 Posted 23/09/2020 at 09:34:38
Good debate on Tom. If we could move on others first, then great... but that's not how the world works.

Sandro, Bolasie, Besic would be my first 3 out and I'd be happy if it was just those three initially.

For what it's worth, I think staying with us, albeit as a back-up, is really his only chance to improve whilst training alongside the much improved midfield and manager (and in a group with positive morale for once!). I can't see him improving in that Southampton side, no matter how many games he plays.

I do rate their coach so maybe I'm wrong but I don't think Tom is a No 6. I think that's partly Tom's problem. He is not a great attacker or defender from midfield. Just "okay" at both.

It's one of those situation where, if he does go, I won't lose any sleep and wish him well. But equally, if he stays, I'd be happy to see if he progresses at all.

Steve Mink
83 Posted 23/09/2020 at 12:07:16
Get rid.

The argument that we should get rid of Bolasie, Besic etc doesn't work – no-one will buy them. We need to thin the squad by clearing out any not-good-enough where we can.

Colette Black
84 Posted 23/09/2020 at 12:23:33
Davies is one of a handful of players we need to offload. Whether he should go before Delph or anyone else is immaterial. We cannot choose when someone makes an offer and we have to engage when they do.

My biggest concern is letting him go on a loan with an option to buy. He must be sold outright. There's no way Southampton would take up the option to buy come the end of the season when they see what he is really like.

Denis Richardson
85 Posted 23/09/2020 at 13:32:15
Good move for both sides imo. Assuming we don’t have a midfielder injury crisis, he’s not going to get much game time.

Also, although he’s still young, I just can’t see him being first choice as he’s quite limited. Loan or buy, he won’t get much game time with us this season so needs a move.

John Pendleton
86 Posted 23/09/2020 at 13:45:31
Frank Crewe (16) – If he wasn't already at the club would anyone here want to buy him?

Tommy Carter (17) – To have players like him in your squad, local, homegrown etc, I think gives the club an enhanced sense of identity.

Perfect summary of the cultural crossroads in which we now find ourselves.

Tommy's sense of identity point is valuable, not in a retrograde sentimental way, but as evidence to our local networks and youth system that a visible path to first-team football exists. In the absence of on-field success, and prior to Moshiri's money, this recent pathway of Tom's was an economic necessity and a rare source of pride. It was good business and strengthened local ties.

However, Ancelotti instantly brings global pulling power well beyond our 12th place finish. With expectations raised significantly, local talent has to compete even harder with a global market – and to answer Frank's hypothetical question – I don't think Tom has enough to be anywhere near Ancelotti's radar. More likely on Brands's radar – young, experienced, fit and affordable.

But he is with us and there is apparent interest from elsewhere. What we do with him will tell us a lot about the direction Everton are going and who is winning the cultural battle in the boardroom.

Francis van Lierop
87 Posted 23/09/2020 at 13:47:14
I think Sam @4 got it spot on.

Loan him out, let Hasenhuttl coach, and hopefully improve him, and we can overview the situation next summer in terms of his future.

Kevin Molloy
88 Posted 23/09/2020 at 13:59:50
Problem is, football is so unpredictable. I've given up thinking I know when a player is any good or not, there are so many variables at play.

Sometimes a player can look bad cos of the tactics, sometimes they are very good at doing things which I would not understand, knowing where to stand, when to run, coaches know, I don't. and then there is the sudden jump in form.

Look at Calvert-Lewin, or Holgate, or even Henderson at Liverpool, from journeyman to key player for World Team of the Year.

I like to think I can spot a good player; we all enjoyed watching Rooney, and someone like Gareth Barry, but there's no way I'm now confident enough to say when a player isn't good enough unless he's stinking the place out.

Barry Rathbone
89 Posted 23/09/2020 at 14:24:46
Tom Carter

Sorry it was a TV interview and I can't remember where/who was doing the interview.

In context it was near the end of the interview alluding to other players being ahead of Tom from the stiffs and his surprise he had got in ahead of them.

John Pendleton
90 Posted 23/09/2020 at 14:38:55
Kevin (88) Agree about the unpredictability. Would we be so willing to sell/loan if Tom had netted the winner instead of hitting the post in the last derby?
Craig Walker
91 Posted 23/09/2020 at 15:09:36
I really wanted Tom Davies to be one of our key players for seasons to come. Apart from that goal he got against Man City, I'm really struggling to remember him performing well for us. I still do not know what he offers us.

As others have said, he isn't creative. He's not quick. He doesn't win the ball. He doesn't get goals. He can't beat players and he's not aggressive. He is way too slow at transitioning the play.

If there is any interest in Tom, we need to get shut. Being the nephew of a former fans' favourite isn't strong enough reason to hold onto him, hoping one day he comes good. I actually think he's a worse player for us than Schneiderlin was.

Jay Wood
[BRZ]

92 Posted 23/09/2020 at 15:23:57
Craig: 'Apart from that goal he got against Man City, I'm really struggling to remember him performing well for us.'

Then you have an exceedingly poor memory.

Your last sentence rather gives the game away:

'I actually think he's a worse player for us than Schneiderlin was.'

Extremely poor recall reinforced.

Mike Gaynes
93 Posted 23/09/2020 at 15:41:42
My regard for Davies's abilities isn't huge, but "a worse player for us than Schneiderlin was"???

No.

No way.

Jay Woods
94 Posted 23/09/2020 at 15:56:41
Frank Wade, why should I feel embarrassed about a daft quip when you're the one justifying holding on to one of the worst players ever to don the blue shirt, right when we finally have a chance to offload him?
Tommy Carter
95 Posted 23/09/2020 at 16:09:16
So many Evertonians on here completely disappointing me. But I'm not surprised.

I'm disappointed that nobody is willing to give Davies an opportunity to see what he can do playing with better players.

Will Mabon
96 Posted 23/09/2020 at 16:13:19
"...Schneiderlin"

Any mention will always deliver the goods here on TW.

Darren Hind
97 Posted 23/09/2020 at 16:28:28
Carlo Speaks very highly of Tom Davies, for those who want to look it up. Thinks he's mature way beyond his years.

Craig Walker
98 Posted 23/09/2020 at 16:29:34
Jay. I'm not saying Schneiderlin was good. That's how much I rate Davies. Two woeful footballers.

If you think Tom is a good player, then that's your opinion of him. I don't, because I don't rate someone who ambles about and can't make 5 yard passes. Barkley was 10 times the player Tom is and got slated on these pages.

Please don't patronise me about my memory either, pal. If there's one thing I can remember, it's Everton games.

Will Mabon
99 Posted 23/09/2020 at 16:32:24
Barkley and Lukaku shared the post-millenium Whipping Boy Cup, no doubt about it.
Rob Hooton
100 Posted 23/09/2020 at 16:35:46
I would prefer to keep him, I think there is a very good player in there waiting to come out and very few central midfielders start hitting their potential until their mid-twenties.

And Peter Reid thinks so too, so that's fine by me.

David Cash
101 Posted 23/09/2020 at 16:38:01
Wouldn't be my first choice to be shown the door, but he appears to be the only one attracting interest.

Let him go for a season. What's the worst that can happen?

Jay Wood
[BRZ]

102 Posted 23/09/2020 at 16:44:47
Craig, I wasn't patronising you about your memory. I called it out. I stand by that.

If, in your own words, you 'struggle' beyond the Man City game to recall any other good performance by Tom Davies, then I continue to question your memory and recall.

Given your follow-up, I would now go further and say I would also question your ability to make a balanced judgement on the player if you wish to maintain the belief that, in more than 100 games for the Blues, he has only played well in one of them.

You are fully entitled to your opinion on Tom Davies and all things Everton. No-one is denying you that right. Similarly, if you post on a public forum, expect to be challenged by counter-opinions.

Way of the world, Craig.

Craig Walker
103 Posted 23/09/2020 at 17:16:41
Sorry, Jay, but I just don't see it with Tom. Like I said, I wanted him to be good and I love us bringing through local lads. I read people saying he'll come good but he's had a lot of chances. I thought he looked average at best against Salford. I think people defend him because he's Alan Whittle's nephew. He was woeful after the restart.

I stand by what I said (maybe the Schneiderlin comment was harsh). What does he offer the team? He isn't quick, skilful, aggressive, creative, tricky... apart from that, let's hope he can turn it on against Fleetwood and get us into the next round.

I remember Leicester away last season. He misplaced a pass in the middle of the field then looked like he was treading water trying to get back. Later, one of their players ran past him and it finished up in our net. So many times he's ineffectual playing it backwards or slowing the game down.

I just don't see any attributes that warrant him being in our first team. 5 goals and a few assists in over 100 appearances. Okay, he's not an attacking midfielder but he's not a ball-winner and he doesn't shield the back four either. People say he's only young but he's 22 now. Phil Foden is 20 and is bossing games.

I'd like him to succeed. I have nothing against him but, if we want to be a top club, then players like Davies aren't gonna get us there. We need to lose the sentimental Everton tag. Look at the teams supposedly interested in him: Newcastle and Southampton. Which teams would benefit from having him? None that we'd aspire to be so why keep giving him chances?

Bill Gall
104 Posted 23/09/2020 at 17:28:11
As Tom Davies is dropping down the list in the players who play in this position, it could be more beneficial to Everton to loan him out to a club where he will get more games than he may at Everton. He is a player who shows promise in some games and in others he is poor. He may get a better chance with another team if played regularly.

Everton will get the benefit of him getting a regular game rather than sitting on the bench for them. It may depend on who we can sell in this transfer window as we may still have Sigurdsson, Delph and Gbamin if fit and Iwobi, with some interesting young players coming through the Under-23s and lower. I can't say anything about these young players as I do not get to see them, and will have to rely on those supporters who watch them in games, to give their opinions.

The club have to concentrate on the positions that they feel that they need back-up for, and as has happened before with loaned out players who they think will improve with a loan.

I never looked up the ruling on a loan with an option to buy if Everton can refuse to sell in this agreement.

Jay Wood
[BRZ]

105 Posted 23/09/2020 at 17:33:28
Critique Tom Davies all you like, Craig. Flag up all his deficiencies as you see them. That is not what I called you out on.

I have questioned one thing about your post @ 91 that amounts to saying, based on your memory, that he has had just one good game in 100+ games for Everton.

I'll trust the judgement of the wider Everton fanbase over your assessment of Tom Davies who, in that Man City game season, overwhelming voted him as Young Player of the Year.

Or do you think their votes were based solely on his performance in that single game v Man City or out of sentimentality 'cos he is Alan Whittle's nephew as you now suggest?

It's my opinion you have made a nonsensical claim which you continue to attempt to justify, unwilling as you are to acknowledge such a claim is an extreme and unjust one without substance, lacking plausibility.

Craig Walker
106 Posted 23/09/2020 at 17:38:51
I think you're right, Jay. Good points.
Soren Moyer
107 Posted 23/09/2020 at 18:34:23
No way Davies is a good player. No talent no nothing! Waste of wages. Being Alan Whittle’s nephew or a local lad is not enough!!!
Craig Walker
108 Posted 23/09/2020 at 18:45:00
We should hold onto him though, Soren, because the fan base voted him young player of the year once. Wish we had Velios up front too because he was our young player of the year once.
Jim Jennings
109 Posted 23/09/2020 at 19:07:59
Craig Walker,

There was some fierce competition for young player of the year that season. Lookman racked up 8 appearances mostly from the bench, Calvert-Lewin 12 and Holgate 21.

Incidentally, that was the same year which Jay Wood won the Tallest Dwarf in Brazil competition.

James Head
110 Posted 23/09/2020 at 19:17:14
I can't understand how Tom Davies ever got a professional contract, he would struggle in the lower leagues, as we saw in the Salford game. He has no pace, can't pass or shoot, head or tackle and – considering he's a midfield player – he doesn't have an engine and his positional sense is non-existent.

If this club is ever to regain our status as one of the top teams, we have to lose the sentimentality and show a ruthless streak. Sadly, there is no way any other Premier League team would come in for him so I fear we are stuck with him.

Mick Davies
111 Posted 24/09/2020 at 05:00:18
"He's young (?) local and a true blue" – so is our postman but he's crap too, and if someone offered £10M for him, I'm sure Roberto Martinez would bite their hands off
Frank Crewe
112 Posted 24/09/2020 at 17:14:36
Jay 105

"Or do you think their votes were based solely on his performance in that single game v Man City "

Yes. He lived on that goal like John Barnes did with his goal against Brazil's reserves.

Doesn't matter now anyway. Apparently Saints are now saying they were never interested in him after all. Probably got blowback from their fans for even considering such a poor buy. So it looks like we are stuck with him until his contract runs out.

Mike Gaynes
113 Posted 24/09/2020 at 17:31:04
Jim #109, that is a very weird last line.
Phil (Kelsall) Roberts
114 Posted 06/10/2020 at 13:19:42
And the midfielder Saints did take was Walcott and not Davies.

Did we get a better result? Not sure this will get resurrected as a thread but an interesting question...


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