Uefa continue to be dead set against the idea, which would challenge their own Champions League brand as the preeminent European club football competition but these rumblings were the expected outcome of the snub delivered to Liverpool and Manchester United last week when their "Project Big Picture” was roundly rejected by the rest of the Premier League.
The Telegraph 'credits' (if that's the right word) Real Madrid chairman Florentino Pérez with resurrecting his pet project and claiming that talks have involved Fifa.
But an American style league with no promotion or relegation seems anathema to the European roots of football: “The principles of solidarity, of promotion, relegation and open leagues are non-negotiable,” a Uefa spokesman said, adding that closed-shop proposals like those suggested by Perez “would inevitably become boring”.
Reader Comments (50)
Note: the following content is not moderated or vetted by the site owners at the time of submission. Comments are the responsibility of the poster. Disclaimer
1 Posted 20/10/2020 at 21:16:16
My first reaction is: sod them, let them go... but then rationally I wonder what harm if any, leaving will do to the rest of the Premier League clubs? A tradition like the FA will survive, it may struggle at the beginning but it will adapt.
The other question is we have a recognized supposed top 6 but they only want 5? It just made me mad reading this as I have been a supporter of Everton since 1954 but at the same time supported the FA who have tried to support the game of football from the Premier League to the grass roots.
I believe that this is simply a money grab with assistance from certain media outlets, and turning their backs on the FA, whose organization have allowed them to start from nothing to where they are. I definitely will not pay any money to any media outlet to watch these games and firmly believe that the Premier League will be better without these teams.
2 Posted 20/10/2020 at 21:26:20
3 Posted 20/10/2020 at 21:35:47
4 Posted 20/10/2020 at 21:44:46
There are two competitions that take place in the EPL every season. Trying to win it and trying to stay in it. Real competition needs both of those elements and that is what keeps standards up because each aspect makes the other harder. Remove one of them and the whole thing becomes meaningless.
5 Posted 20/10/2020 at 21:51:51
6 Posted 20/10/2020 at 22:03:31
7 Posted 20/10/2020 at 22:05:05
What are we talking about presently here? Who'd be leaving the EPL for the "Super" League with bullshit American-style no Pro-Rel?
I won't name any names, just their current place in the table:
3rd, 5th, 7th, 8th, 11th, and 15th? Isn't that correct?
This idea is garbage. Utter garbage. Another way to look at this closed shop would be to ask which of these "Big" [Almighty??] teams would like to finish last place in their little pie-in-the-sky league? Could you imagine Real finishing in 15th place in their league? Their glory-hunting fans would go batshit crazy.
I'd guarantee this is those knuckle-dragging Liverpool or Man U folks stirring up the shit pot with their media contacts because their Project Big Britches got shot to flames.
This season I'm a fan of Everton, Villa, Wolves and Leicester. Why? Because that's what I want the top 4 to look like at season's end, and in that exact order.
If they leave, any return is to the bottom of England's Football Pyramid. No rolling out a red carpet for Judas, thank you very much.
It's time for the Big Boys to fall. Important in their own minds, self-righteous pricks.
8 Posted 20/10/2020 at 22:06:19
9 Posted 20/10/2020 at 22:15:13
As much as I dislike the RS and Manure, the premier league is a better league with them. Having said that it will survive without them. Hopefully this story isnt true though.
10 Posted 20/10/2020 at 22:30:27
What right would Tottenham have in joining, they have never won the Premier League. Leicester and Blackburn Rovers have won it more than them. It simply stinks of more money for the top European teams and though it will not be impossible it will be difficult attracting top players to the Premier League as they will want to go into this Super League.
It seems the Premier League teams that are for this are fed up in not winning the European Cup in its present format, and are looking for an excuse to get out.
11 Posted 20/10/2020 at 22:41:35
12 Posted 20/10/2020 at 22:41:36
13 Posted 20/10/2020 at 22:54:43
Correct and Leipzig suddenly in the mix on the back of 3 years of being pretty good. PSG are there whereas, before their takeover, Lyon won the league 7 years in a row due to their cash flow from the Champions League when they happened to win the French League for the first time ever the season before the Champions League started.
All the established teams like Nantes, Bordeaux and St Etienne really screwed up by not winning it that one seemingly all important season. The other thing is that this has no room for Ajax, Benfica, Porto all of whom periodically win or make the last four of the European trophies.
There's also no room for AC Milan who are, I believe, second only to Real Madrid for winning the European Cup. Again bad, timing I guess on their part. The rest of history means nothing apparently.
14 Posted 20/10/2020 at 23:13:18
For FIFA in the long run this will not stop with Europe. Ultimately a much bigger World Club competition involving the USA and Asia will be the big prize for them. It is all about maximising financial advantage from club football.
They can all go and get stuffed.
15 Posted 20/10/2020 at 23:18:27
16 Posted 20/10/2020 at 23:47:59
First, you have to find prospective bond holders will to invest. They won't invest unless they know they'll make a return. Which means you need more than 6 billion dollars worth of interest from other parties, tv companies, gate receipts. But 6 billion would be break even for the bond holders so you need a lot more.
In this Covid economy, who the fuck as a TV company or Ticketmaster type is going say “we will definitely bring in 6 plus billion as we have such faith in consumers to cough up that sum.” No one. The TV companies have already clawed back TV money paid for the current TV deals. They are hardly likely to roll the dice and pay even more for a fledgling league being widely derided by fans.
This proposal is a joke. At least Alan Stanford had the cash to start his equally ill-conceived cricket gig. No-one has the money or appetite for this shit. Go back to selling shitty cars, Angelli.
17 Posted 20/10/2020 at 23:49:24
The proposal to reduce the Premier League to 18 clubs and not enter the Carabao League Cup, allied to abolishing replays in the FA Cup, would leave the required spaces in the fixture list.
I bet the RS fans can't wait for RS v Lille on a cold, wet, December night! Van Dijk may even be fit by then!!
18 Posted 21/10/2020 at 02:05:04
What a despicable greedy bunch of self centred turds they are, hopefully the rest of the Footballing World will see them exposed for what they really are.
19 Posted 21/10/2020 at 06:12:41
But I welcome Liverpool's ongoing attempts to portray themselves as greedy, self-serving, whinging arseholes.
20 Posted 21/10/2020 at 07:43:58
Like him or loathe him, Carraghers response on Twitter was " oh f*** off". His demeanour over the past week towards his former employers has definitely changed somewhat.
I don't particularly like the guy but he went up slightly in my estimations (particularly when he called out Souness' hypocrisy on the Pickford tackle)
21 Posted 21/10/2020 at 09:31:02
Once a Blue, sometimes a Red and all that.
22 Posted 21/10/2020 at 10:24:13
Don't forget that John Pierpont (J P) Morgan was the actual owner of the RMS Titanic, and we all know how that ended up. He owned the White Star Line, so though Titanic was registered as a British shop it was actually American-owned.
He was supposed to be on board for the maiden Voyage but was taken ill and didn't join the ship. He died in Rome in March 1913, so didn't outlive his ship by much. I wonder if this proposed Super League would end up being football's version of the Titanic?
23 Posted 21/10/2020 at 10:43:02
I would imagine UEFA will oppose this and have all the power to make sure this doesnt happen. Whenever you hear players talk they all say what an honour it is to be picked for your country, so if all European FAs stated anybody signing or playing in this league will never play for their national teams again will be a great deterrent.
Finally I think it will be interesting to see the reaction from the fans of these clubs to this proposed new league. Lets remember that it was only the fans reaction that made Liverpool and Spurs change their minds about furloughing their staff. So if the supporters reject this idea then it will be a non starter. Seeing that both Man Utd and liverpool seem intent to get a bigger slice of the football cake, I can see both clubs not agreeing to the next Sky deal and will want to sell their own games to their fans rather than the system that is in place at the moment.
24 Posted 21/10/2020 at 11:00:11
25 Posted 21/10/2020 at 11:46:48
This isn't what the RS and United want anymore. This is the decoy proposal designed to make you think that their plan to get the best of both worlds by shoring up their positions in the Prem and increasing the glamour Euro ties.
For many of the European giants however, ditching their domestic leagues would probably make them much more wealthy.
26 Posted 21/10/2020 at 13:49:17
Perhaps we could register Unsworth on the same basis if our fullbacks / centre half's keep dropping as they are?!! (Cat amongst pigeons..)
27 Posted 21/10/2020 at 14:51:16
Let's just make sure that if they make this bed for themselves that they are left to lie in it and sell themselves to people who won't have teams playing in it.
The fans? That is those who watch it on TV as far as these money grubbers are interested.
28 Posted 21/10/2020 at 15:21:23
Now they are moving on to phase two of trying to form a European super league, if that goes ahead it will fail within around 5 years max.
All good and well winning your own league, but when you are faced with only the so called best of Europe, only one team will be able to dominate, other also rans will soon get fed up, supporters every away game travelling abroad would soon wear out, not that the clubs would be bothered, due to tv revenue and sponsorship covering it.
The fans will revolt on this, you can have a pop at Utd and our neighbours, but I can assure you, they will not want this, it will be the nail in the coffin for football without fans is nothing.
As others have said, if this goes ahead, then those teams need to be removed from any of our leagues, or competitions.
If not then you have a very huge unfair advantage of ffp.
29 Posted 21/10/2020 at 15:33:44
30 Posted 21/10/2020 at 15:35:59
They should not be allowed to continue in the EPL as they can't have their cake and eat it. A schism in Football has been coming ever since the huge TV deals came to fruition. The sooner it happens the better. It has nothing to do with football just money and plain, plain greed and of course no risk taking either.
31 Posted 21/10/2020 at 15:59:01
32 Posted 21/10/2020 at 16:19:26
Why would anyone want to see a league that has no relegation? Once the season was half way through and it was obvious which teams were the also rans all those games would be dead rubbers because nobody is getting relegated. Fans want to see competitive football not pointless games just playing out the fixtures.
Then there is the ticket and travelling costs and time. How many fans can afford cost and time off work to go to away matches 17 times a year when they are in another country and how much would they charge to get in to watch a bunch of millionaires kick a ball around?
Finally there is just the rich club snobbery of it. We are in because we are considerably richer than yow.
Well let them go. But they can't come back if it flops. I'm sure there are five good clubs eager to take their place in the PL. As for the five that left. Out of sight is out of mind. They'd soon be forgotten.
33 Posted 21/10/2020 at 19:18:48
34 Posted 21/10/2020 at 19:25:59
I say big six teams, even though Spurs will probably not be included in any European premier league, they can be relegated anyway, just for thinking they are one of the so called big six teams!!
35 Posted 22/10/2020 at 09:11:59
I would say that the FA and UEFA should say that any club playing in this competition would not be eligible for any of their competitions for 5 years after taking part. In addition, any player who takes part would be banned from official competition. This would include internationals.
So players who say that representing their country is the peak of their career would have to choose between the money and the glory.
Announce that now, and if this story rumbles on it would be interesting to see how many young players wanted to join clubs that were mooted to be leaving the official structure.
36 Posted 23/10/2020 at 12:14:00
37 Posted 23/10/2020 at 17:49:00
38 Posted 23/10/2020 at 19:59:32
There's a fellow over in American soccer here been pushing this fantasy league for a number of years now. I might look his name up again. But this league has been his dream for a while.
ManU is basically a bottomless platinum mine for the Glazers. They pull a fortune out of that money pit year after year. Give that up to compete with Barca and Royal Madrid for top players? I don't think so.
Barca and RM leaving their current positions in Spain to take a flyer on the unknown? Why? Same with Bayern Munich.
Henry and Levy wanting to fight those clubs for players? I don't think so.
It's a fantasy that pops up every now and again, driven by a handful (a real small one) of individuals. That's it.
39 Posted 24/10/2020 at 08:25:43
40 Posted 24/10/2020 at 14:26:47
2. Aston Villa
3. West Ham
4. Leeds United
If that is how the season finished, I - and I suspect the vast majority of English and Welsh football supporters - shall be delighted.
If Manchester United and Liverpool are deducted 100 points each for bringing the game into disrepute with their approach to FIFA... doubly so.
41 Posted 27/10/2020 at 21:02:22
42 Posted 27/10/2020 at 21:03:14
43 Posted 28/10/2020 at 07:45:40
Every one of those 6 showed utter contempt for the other 14. There is no going back. Lines have been crossed, trust irrecoverably damaged. The very core basis of the foundation of the Premier League has been fatally undermined.
They should be expelled at the end of the season, with 6 teams being promoted. A transfer embargo on players transferring into those 6 clubs from the rest of the Premier League should be set in place for a minimum of 5 years. (Players can come the other way, why should the players or the Premier League suffer?)
No funds from current Premier League TV rights should be given from the end of the season. Let them see how they get on without money.
The losers in this are the clubs' fans. Do you honestly think that any significant number of fans will travel ever other week to Rome, Madrid etc to watch their team? Estimated costs of roughly a grand for each away game?
They are quite prepared to trample on other teams to satisfy their selfish desire for wealth at the expense of fans and tradition (ha – as if).
Let them go, they won't be missed. Scumbags.
44 Posted 28/10/2020 at 07:52:55
45 Posted 28/10/2020 at 08:27:02
Commercially they have tried to sabotage the income of the other 14 clubs, deceived them and tried to convince the 14 it was just up for discussion.
My contempt for them is only matched by my rubbing of hands at the prospect of showing them the door.
Let's just say for a moment, that Everton were included in that 6 (just who decided the six anyway?) Would we be happy? Me? No.. not at all. Moshiri, on the other hand?? Kenwright??? You can imagine how it would be sold to us.
If it was an open discussion on the table, then fair enough, warts and all... but this is BS of the highest order. Do it properly or cut them out.
46 Posted 28/10/2020 at 09:22:35
Just more confirmation that they think they can move away from the die-hards, because most of the teams who would go into this league have got enough fans around the world who have never even been inside the stadium of the club they follow in the first place.
That's not to discredit these fans, but to despair at something that would probably only work in the short-term, whilst the greed of the beast destroys the game?
I might be wrong, it might turn into something quite fantastic, but let's not be kidded it's even about the game of football because, in the words of Roger Waters, “It all makes perfect sense”.
47 Posted 28/10/2020 at 09:47:33
It would be nice if the 14 clubs convened a meeting with the other 6 and proposed that the two main, greedy bastard clubs, were deducted 12 points each from this season's competition. This would either make them conform to the rest of the clubs or make them more determined to leave.
I would hope it would be the latter, they would not be missed. The only losers would be the genuine fans of both clubs, of which there are plenty, and I think they would have plenty to say to their managements.
48 Posted 28/10/2020 at 10:08:53
I think that it will happen in one form or another and it is likely that the 'big six' will continue to play in the Premier League, whilst locking out clubs such as Everton from the big money-spinning 'elite' league.
Will supporters continue to flock to the stadiums post-Covid? Many will initially but may stop attending with the realisation that the only attainable objective for the clubs outside the six is to stay in the top-flight, which won't be enough to satisfy many supporters.
49 Posted 28/10/2020 at 10:35:54
But, if and when this league is formed, then as sure as night follows day, the money from Sky will be transferred from national leagues to the new super league. That will also mean all the top players will want to play in this league. For those of us left in the national leagues, we will be left with a poorer product to watch, than the one we watch now.
I think the only way this European league might not get off the ground is if the Premier League changed dramatically the way the TV money is divided up, which may upset fans as much. The likes of Liverpool and Man Utd feature a lot in Sky games primarily because they have the biggest worldwide fan bases, and Sky know that they can sell any package with these clubs anywhere in the world. Where a game between say Burnley and Southampton would not have the same appeal nationally never mind trying to sell this game abroad.
In Spain, Real and Barca get the lion's share of the TV money, but they realize the only way they can improve their incomes from TV deals is a European Super League. Again, PSG would benefit enormously from a European Super League.
Let's remember that the format of the old European Cup was changed from an FA Cup style draw and knockout, to a Champions League seeded draw. Again, the rich European clubs argued that Man Utd could draw Juventus so one of them would lose out on a lot of revenue if they met in the first round. So again, the rich clubs decided they wanted a minimum of 4 games in a league structure and these leagues would be seeded to give the rich and powerful clubs the ability to progress further after making substantial money from the early group stage.
I believe a super league in some shape or form will happen in the next couple of years, unless the Premier League make the TV rights so appealing for the top clubs that there would be no incentive to leave.
50 Posted 28/10/2020 at 20:35:25
This is indeed another attempt to grab TV money distribution now that the big clubs may pay a price for hoarding talent in the form of stranded assets. They just need to get on with more durable organizational strategies.
Add Your Comments
In order to post a comment, you need to be logged in as a registered user of the site.
Or Sign up as a ToffeeWeb Member — it's free, takes just a few minutes and will allow you to post your comments on articles and Talking Points submissions across the site.