Baningime makes Hearts move

Thursday, 29 July, 2021 119comments  |  Jump to last

Beni Baningime has secured a move to Heart of Midlothian with the deal confirmed by Everton this evening.

Edinburgh Live were the first to report that Hearts tabled an offer for the Blues' Under-23 midfielder and that he didn't travel with the rest of the squad to Florida because of the possibility of completing a move north of the Border.

A further update from Ben Banks, a correspondent for BBC Sport Scotland, claimed today that the midfielder is already training with his proposed new club and that an agreement has been struck with Everton whereby Hearts will cover the remainder of his contract with the Toffees by way of transfer fee.

Baningime was entering the final year of his terms at Everton with his first-team prospects seemingly as distant as ever. He broke into the first-team under David Unsworth's temporary stewardship in 2017 but struggled with injuries after that.

Since then he has been farmed out on loan but Hearts could offer him a route to regular first-team football.

Original info from Edinburgh Live

Reader Comments (119)

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James Flynn
1 Posted 28/07/2021 at 00:16:58
Good luck to him.
Kieran Kinsella
2 Posted 28/07/2021 at 00:32:31
Kieran Agard went to Hearts post Everton academy didn’t he? Kissock, Cadamarteri, Fox … we’ve had a few old academy prospects make various degrees of careers up there. Best of luck
Paul Kernot
3 Posted 28/07/2021 at 01:43:08
I think this would be a good move for Beni. He's been around long enough & it's time for him to be playing professionally week in, week out. Personally I think he'd do reasonably well in the Scottish league.
Mike Gaynes
4 Posted 28/07/2021 at 01:58:58
Go forth and make something of yourself, young man. Have a great career.
Ajay Gopal
5 Posted 28/07/2021 at 02:39:55
Good luck to the young man. I was impressed with his few cameos towards the end of the 17-18 season and had high hopes for the lad. He has had bad luck with injuries and Carlo refused to play him even for some inconsequential matches at the end of 19-20. Good luck to Beni, he is still young and with hard work and a little bit of luck, he might still make it to the top flight.
Kristian Boyce
6 Posted 28/07/2021 at 03:48:36
That would be a good move for him. Have a good season, and as what normally happens he’ll get snapped up by one of the Auld firm. Just need to make sure we have a decent % cut if he does go anywhere.
Derek Knox
7 Posted 28/07/2021 at 05:47:53
Good luck Beni, Top Cat sends his blessing too, along with Officer Dibble. Seriously hope it works out for him, and like Kristian alluded to let's hope we get a decent fee and a percentage clause of any future move.

We are soft compared to other Clubs letting our decent players, who couldn't just quite make it, go for free or chicken feed. I don't suspect Hearts, who recently survived bankruptcy/liquidation will have a massive transfer kitty or war chest either.

Richard Lyons
8 Posted 28/07/2021 at 07:10:29
Lol Derek @7... He'll get there and say "What happened? What happened?"

Is he actually not good enough for us?

Colin Glassar
9 Posted 28/07/2021 at 08:43:24
Another one who shone brightly, promised much, delivered little. Good luck lad.
Robert Tressell
10 Posted 28/07/2021 at 08:49:24
Good luck to Baningime. A good example of how hard it is to break through. Certainly got the ability to be a success in Scotland.

And as we trim out a few players and bring in some underwhelming (but potentially effective) signings, Man Utd bring in Varane hot on the heels of Sancho. These are rolls royce type players.

A few seasons ago Man Utd felt within reach. They are not now. Solskjaer is no great shakes as a manager but he's got an exceptional squad now - and has worked well with the club to rebuild more patiently than his predecessors.

Derek Knox
11 Posted 28/07/2021 at 09:07:02
Robert, while I agree the likes of Man U, City, et al, have far more expensively assembled squads than we currently have, I also believe that ANY team in the Premiership is capable of beating anyone else on the day. And while I also concede that a £70M player obviously has certain qualities, it doesn't necessarily mean he is 70 times better than a £1M player.

How many upsets are there in a season, let alone the Cup Games to Lower Division teams ?

Alex Gray
12 Posted 28/07/2021 at 09:14:41
To be fair Robert it’s a lot easier rebuilding Utd than us. They don’t have to worry about financial fair play as they generate that much revenue globally.

We’ll still get one or two good players in i’m fairly certain.

Tony Everan
13 Posted 28/07/2021 at 09:34:09
From the toffees to the jam tarts, it will be a great move for Beni to build a career. He will have to watch his waistline though. Best of luck to him.
Colin Glassar
14 Posted 28/07/2021 at 09:37:29
You’re right Robert, thanks to Moshiri and his bungling appointees eg Walsh, Ronald, Sam etc…we’ve blown hundreds of millions in the transfer market and are now back to looking for bargains in Netto and Poundland.
Sam Hoare
15 Posted 28/07/2021 at 11:07:16
Colin, i'd happily take Neto, though I doubt we'd get him at a bargain price.
Robert Tressell
16 Posted 28/07/2021 at 11:22:06
Very good Sam - although we've just missed out on Aldi-wiereld.
Tony Everan
17 Posted 28/07/2021 at 11:30:53
I hear Clinton Morrison’s available on a free.
Martin Reppion
18 Posted 28/07/2021 at 11:32:49
I echo the comments on here about, Beni. He looked to have great talent and enthusiasm. If he can build a career starting up north then now is the time to go.

Good luck. As with all ex-Blues, I will be watching whenever I see the name to see what we've missed.

Robert Tressell
19 Posted 28/07/2021 at 11:34:20
Derek # 11. Yes teams can beat each other in a given game, but the expensively assembled squads win out over the course of a season.

Also worth mentioning that Liverpool and Leicester do not have expensively assembled squads compared to us. They realise they can't compete with City, Chelsea and Man Utd so built squads through a very deliberate resale / sell on value model - spending a lot less than us net in the process (enabling Liverpool to spend about £50m or so more than us gross).

We bought average players at or around their peak and have barely made a penny from resale in the last few years, leaving us in decline with no money to reinvest in improvement. It's not just how much you spend, it's how you spend it.

Derek Knox
20 Posted 28/07/2021 at 11:47:33
Asda attitude guys, keep them coming! Any news from Iceland?
Justin Doone
21 Posted 28/07/2021 at 13:18:36
From what I can tell, he's another prospect that hasn't improved.

As a central midfielder, (probably the most important position) he isn't likely to prove good enough for the first team in the next 12 months.

He's at the age we should sell for any thing we can get or give him away. We should always insert a repurchase price, sell on %, additional transfer fee should the purchasing team win, qualify, finish above 'x' etc.

I wish him well.

We need to improve in that area. If (and I'm not suggesting he is for many reasons) Gbamin is the answer to the defensive midfielder, we still need a better creative midfielder.

Mike Gaynes
22 Posted 28/07/2021 at 15:03:19
DK #7, great historical cartoon reference!

Colin #9, shone brightly? Maybe a dim, momentary glow that seems brighter in retrospect. He played exactly 192 minutes for us in the league. I've had days when I spent more time than that in the loo.

Colin Glassar
23 Posted 28/07/2021 at 15:37:02
Asda and Iceland are probably too up-market for us these days, Derek. Maybe, farm foods? Frozen dog, cat and seagull meat galore!

I love your use of the word loo, Mike. You are slowly but surely being civilised on TW😉

Eddie Dunn
24 Posted 28/07/2021 at 15:38:17
I so hope he makes a go of it. He looked a real prospect a couple of years back. Edinburgh is a wonderful place to live.
Robert Tressell
25 Posted 28/07/2021 at 15:51:42
I've had difficult days like that, too, Mike. Too much spicy food.
Mike Gaynes
26 Posted 28/07/2021 at 16:17:17
Robert, thanks to the stuff they make you drink before a colonoscopy, that's a guaranteed all-nighter. Not that I'm comparing Beni to a colonoscopy.

BTW, did you happen to catch the note about England's new U-21 coach? Our old friend Lee is gonna make those kids shave their heads.

Tom Bowers
27 Posted 28/07/2021 at 16:46:58
Another great hopeful bites the dust !!!
Paul Birmingham
28 Posted 28/07/2021 at 19:26:21
Good luck to Beni, and a shame he didn’t kick on from 4 years ago.

Injury, fate, bad luck, but this could be his chance to show football what he can do.
I’ve a few good mates who follow Hearts, hopefully next time I’m working in Edinburgh I may get chance to see him playing.

Nathan Ford
29 Posted 29/07/2021 at 16:48:40
Dont see hearts paying much for him especially with a year left on contract. I'd rather we say to hearts you can have him for free but we get 50% of any future sale. If he makes a successful career up there we could still make money in the future
Danny O’Neill
30 Posted 29/07/2021 at 19:04:42
Never saw enough of this lad, but I wish him well. Ultimately, although it didn't work out at Everton, he has still forged a career in the professional game. And, if we take the two steps back, one step forward analogy, he still has the world at his feet. Good luck young man.
John Keating
31 Posted 29/07/2021 at 20:02:48
Strange one
A free to Hearts when teams are selling off youngsters for good money
Quite surprised a good Championship, League 1 team didn’t pick him up
Certainly he didn’t go for the money
Phil (Kelsall) Roberts
32 Posted 29/07/2021 at 20:02:51
But it will be a long time before we have a better player in the No 54 shirt. Probably the best ever in the No 54.
Si Cooper
33 Posted 29/07/2021 at 20:18:02
Ah well.
Phil Smith
34 Posted 29/07/2021 at 20:19:54
Robert (19) - The Shite isn't expensively assembled??? Laughable!

Ibrahima Konaté - £36 million
Diogo Jota - £45m
Thiago Alcantara - £25m
Fabinho - £39 mil
Naby Keïta - £52 mil
Alisson - £56 mil
Mohamed Salah - £34 mil
Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain - £35 mil
Sadio Mane - £34 mil
Georginio Wijnaldum - £25 mil
Roberto Firmino - £29 mil
Dejan Lovren - £20 mil
Virgil van Dijk - £75 mil!

Missed a few other 20 million players out as well!

Robert Tressell
35 Posted 29/07/2021 at 20:44:20
Phil, tot up the incomings and outgoings and you will find they have spent less than us in the past 5 years. They've spent about £50m or so more from memory if you just tot up the incomings.

So I think it's fair to say it's no more expensively assembled than our team.

They play the transfers game like a commodities market. It allows them to reinvest significant sale proceeds in new players

Brent Stephens
36 Posted 29/07/2021 at 20:52:52
Phill #32 - very good. Actually, I'd suggest we "retire" the shirt - out of respect.
Barry Rathbone
37 Posted 29/07/2021 at 21:16:39
Robert Tressell 35

The comparison with the shite and others of their ilk is meaningless they all have a platform based on decades of success allowing them access to top players at market value. We cannot attract such players regardless of what we offer the battle is to reach their initial platform before we can even think about competing at their level.

Chelsea and City went through exactly this process throwing money at it till they finally got there. Our problem is we don't have that money and consequently sign "names" just below that level in the hope they can turn water into wine.

Unfortunately the likes of Siggi, Snides, Delph, Kean etc are not the messiahs required

Colin Glassar
38 Posted 29/07/2021 at 21:24:36
Any chance of Hearts accepting Iwobi and Delph?
Robert Tressell
40 Posted 29/07/2021 at 21:52:14
Barry, I appreciate the RS have an advantage in recruitment because they are a more glamorous name and they compete for trophies. Many in their ranks would not have joined Everton.

However the comparison is not meaningless. They have accepted they cannot compete with the spending of 3 other clubs and so follow a very deliberate moneyball strategy instead. They have spent less than us. There's no two ways about it. Klopp was specifically appointed to oversee it based on experience of a very similar strategy at Dortmund.

This strategy is not beyond us - it is absolutely something we can do.

For example, Leicester do likewise. They are not a bigger draw than Everton (possibly apart from this season such is their success). Maddison, Ndidi, Tielemans, Soyuncu, Castagne, Fofana, Evans, Praet and Pereira were all v much in our reach when bought by Leicester.

I think you could make a very good case to say we're the biggest mugs in world football over the past 5 years - spending more than £500m, dropping out of the competition for Europe and having nothing to reinvest through player sales into improving the squad. We are the 10th placed side in the Premier League assembled at the cost of Champions League giants.

Duncan McDine
41 Posted 29/07/2021 at 21:53:30
Good luck to Beni, I’ll certainly look out for him with interest. A fair few of us thought he’d be a regular first team player for us by now, but you can never tell (well I certainly can’t anyway). Another one was 16 yr old Wayne Rooney who I first saw in the flesh (2002?) playing in a pre season game at Hearts. Wasn’t good enough for us so he had to go searching for first team football elsewhere and probably ended up in the lower leagues. And to think I believed young Wayne could’ve gone on to be the next Danny Cadamateri.
Christy Ring
42 Posted 29/07/2021 at 21:56:45
Hope it works out for him, disappointed he didn’t get a team in the championship because Hearts are sadly not a patch on what they were
Shane Corcoran
43 Posted 29/07/2021 at 22:12:25
Sky saying it’s a loan. Hardly matters if it’s the last year of his contract.
Andrew Keatley
44 Posted 29/07/2021 at 22:59:10
Robert (19 and elsewhere) - We've clashed on this before, and I'm probably pissing in the wind here trying to illustrate this again, but every Premier League club embraces a wide and varied approach to recruitment - so highlighting Leicester and Liverpool because they have had a better record of success recruiting new players over the last 5 years is one thing, but to suggest they have bettered us (and other clubs) because they have an entirely different model is just a false narrative - and one that oversimplifies the complexities at play within the transfer market and player assessment.

Everton - like every other club - shop in every available market. Over the last few years we've brought in several young players that have shown their potential outside of the Premier League and command low transfer fees (e.g Holgate, Stones, DCL, Nkounkou, Lookman, Branthwaite, etc), a few young players that have shown their potential in top flight football and command bigger transfer fees (Vlasic, Onyekuru, Kean, etc), a few young players that have shown their potential at Premier League level and command a large fee (e.g Iwobi, Pickford, Keane, Godfrey, Richarlison), a few mid-career players who have impressed outside of the Premier League (Funes Mori, Gbamin, Bernard, Klaassen, Digne, Gomes, Mina, Tosun, Niasse, etc), and a few 25+ players who are expected to hit the ground running and could have immediate resale value if they catch fire (Walcott, Gray, Bolasie, Schneiderlin, Doucoure, etc). We've also brought in several 28+ players that are unlikely to have resale value but whose transfer fees were seen as necessary expenditure (Sigurdsson, Delph, Allan) or whose fees were negligible (Townsend, Begovic, James Rodriguez).

I'm sure it's a lot of fun to scour the internet for player reports and to watch highlights videos and games in order to try and compile a list of the next big things - anyone can do it now and lots of people are. But the notion that you think you have identified a better system of recruitment for this football club, even if it is as simplistic as "just do what Leicester do", well it completely disregards and disrespects the work that many people at this football club do in order to identify the right players to bring in, and that's before we even get into the horribly complicated world of negotiating with agents, players and other clubs. The fact is that we already do what Leicester do - they've just done it better than us for the last few years.

One final thing. In respect of the success that Liverpool have had under Klopp in terms of player recruitment, well one aspect of that success has to be attributed to his continued as Liverpool manager; since Klopp arrived in 2015 Everton are now onto their sixth different manager; that sort of continuity tends to breed a more consistent and measured approach to player identification and recruitment.

Gavin Johnson
45 Posted 29/07/2021 at 23:35:30
Beni looked some prospect when he emerged from the U 23s. I don't if it was the injuries, not having the rub of the green in being picked on his loan spells, or he simply stopped developing but it's unfortunate for him and for us.

He should be a good player for Hearts and if he impresses he has a good chance of being picked up by one of the old firm.

The only downside is that it sounds like we've not only had to settle on his final year wages but also give a free transfer. Imagine if he was in the RS squad. They'd have probably picked up £10m from some sucker club

Phil Smith
46 Posted 30/07/2021 at 02:59:53
Rob (35), mate. Liverpool have spent 532.5m on current squad. Compare that to the 362.5m Everton have spent in the same period and you're way off, la!
Bill Gienapp
47 Posted 30/07/2021 at 03:17:53
Showed genuine potential for about five minutes, but basically hasn't done anything of note for the past three years. I think he'll benefit from a permanent move.
Phil Smith
48 Posted 30/07/2021 at 03:21:32
Beni never gotta chance. End of. Always looked a little shy in training. Hopefully he'll do well up north. Good luck to the lad.
Jay Harris
49 Posted 30/07/2021 at 04:21:18
As others have said looked very promising a few years ago but injuries and loss of form meant he didnt make the breakthrough.

I hope he does well in Scotland and finds his form again.

Derek Knox
50 Posted 30/07/2021 at 06:26:39
No wonder we are in FFP deep water, nothing against Beni whatsoever, but allegedly we have paid up his contract (a year early) and let him go on a free. As Peter Kay says, "What's that all about?" It doesn't make any sense to me whatsoever. Other Clubs who are close to the FFP limit at least have a plethora of talent in their ranks.

Absolute joke, like the Everton coverage of pre-season matches, again Wednesday Night almost a repeat of Sunday's Laurel and Hardy Production, only not so well executed, and certainly no laughs.

Phil (Kelsall) Roberts
51 Posted 30/07/2021 at 08:14:36
I think the article says the newspaper is reporting that Hearts are paying his contracted wages for the next 12 months in lieu of paying a fee.

So a bit like Bernard – free but expensive wages. I am sure they will have negotiated reduced wages for the rest of his contract with them.

But it means one less set of wages to pay.

Robert Tressell
52 Posted 30/07/2021 at 08:18:50
I don't know where people are getting their information from but the transfermarkt tables say we are the 5th biggest net spenders in the Prem in the past 5 years behind Villa, Arsenal, Man Utd and City. Our net spend of £233m compares with a net spend of £164 at the RS and £114 at Leicester.

I am not claiming to have discovered any particularly fancy strategy. These clubs and many others found a good strategy for themselves. All I'm doing is pointing it out.

And there's more than one good strategy. Moyes deployed a careful strategy here for years based on low cost, value and profile. This strategy brought in Howard, Neville, Jagielka, Lescott, Baines, Arteta, Cahill and others. There were some failures of course but the record was generally v good. He's now doing similar at WHU on a shoestring.

What I'm saying is that we've deployed a strategy that does not work. I'm sure that's fairly plain - and yes Andrew it's not helped by chopping and changing managers. Equally if we had a good strategy and a good fit coach to oversee it then we might not need to chop and change so much.

Andrew you've told me before that I'm like a nosy neighbour looking at someone else's flourishing Azaleas and trying desperately to copy them - but missing some of the variables you just can't copy.

Fair enough, but if someone next door (or competing in the same division) starts to flourish by making better use of resources - then isn't it worth paying attention as to how? You might not be able to copy everything but we just keep chucking (expensive) manure on our azaleas (and team) and wonder why it's getting us nowhere. To the point where we can't now afford our usual brand of manure!

Put it this way, no-one is going to copy our strategy.

Danny O’Neill
53 Posted 30/07/2021 at 08:53:51
I think you're being kind calling our transfer dealings over the past few years a strategy, Robert!!

Aside from last summer. For the first time in several years, I actually thought we done good business last summer.

Ray Roche
54 Posted 30/07/2021 at 08:57:01
Derek @ 50,

I thought that, in this instance, Hearts have effectively taken over his contract by continuing to pay his wages but not paying a fee. Consequently, Everton are saving money by not paying his wages. Any fee we would have received would have been small anyway.

Bobby Mallon
55 Posted 30/07/2021 at 09:15:48
Andrew @44
since Klopp arrived in 2015 Everton are now onto their sixth different manager;
That my ToffeeWebber is it in a nutshell. We did not Employ the correct manager from the off.
Tony Everan
56 Posted 30/07/2021 at 09:42:47
Is this Gardeners World or ToffeeWeb?

The points on transfer strategy are valid and reoccur, but on some level we have been trying the buy young ‘quality’ method too, Kean , Iwobi, we just seem too often fail to bring in the RIGHT young players when spending the big 30m money on them. These big 30m investments are meant to be the game changers, the signings that will elevate us if we get it right. It’s not all doom and gloom though as the signing of Ben Godfrey has been successful. At the time of buying the former two though there were probably half a dozen young players in Europe that we could have signed for 30m that would have greatly immediately improved our first team and increased in value.

This strategy weighting our transfer budget to buying quality young players is the only way forward , but it must be underpinned by the best quality scouting or everything becomes a waste of time. In short more Ben Godfreys please and less Alex Iwobis and we will be on the right track.

Rob Dolby
57 Posted 30/07/2021 at 09:54:08
Bobby who is the right manager?

Brands has to also shoulder a lot of responsibility for what has gone on.

After finishing the season so strong Silva was hung out to dry without Zouma and Gueye.

Ancelotti was given Josh king in January!
What a missed opportunity that was.

Robert misc. I think your looking at our football recruitment and thinking that we are a shambles. In reality we will stay in the division which is the goal of the owner no more no less.

Moshiri is looking at the ground development and all it offers for him and usm. Once that is built we will be up for sale again.


Jerome Shields
58 Posted 30/07/2021 at 10:22:05

Everton have had a various attempt a recruitment with six different Managers fulfilling their requirement which may have been right or wrong, but a big failing at Everton has been to mould and develop players. We are all very familar with resulting standards of performance and the lack of added value to the majority of p!ayers involved.

I will compile a comparison of Everton player's market value and fees paid. A initial look provides sobering reading.

Shane Corcoran
59 Posted 30/07/2021 at 10:41:43
It can’t be that we’re paying his last year wages and letting him go free. Why not keep him in that case.
Tony Abrahams
60 Posted 30/07/2021 at 10:43:39
We all have different opinions, mine is that you’ve got to strike whilst the iron is hot, once these young players have had a taste of top level football. This is why I’m hoping that Brands, and the fast -tracking philosophy that he has began to implement, will help out more of our young players in the future, and stop them stagnating, once they’ve proved they can go and play at a higher level, rather than hanging around playing in a standard that they’ve already outgrown.
Tony Abrahams
61 Posted 30/07/2021 at 10:43:55
We all have different opinions, mine is that you’ve got to strike whilst the iron is hot, once these young players have had a taste of top level football. This is why I’m hoping that Brands, and the fast -tracking philosophy that he has began to implement, will help out more of our young players in the future, and stop them stagnating, once they’ve proved they can go and play at a higher level, rather than hanging around playing in a standard that they’ve already outgrown.
Danny O’Neill
62 Posted 30/07/2021 at 11:03:34
But has Brands been allowed to do his job properly? I've been vocal previously, if you adopt the DoF model, you have to buy into it completely, not go half baked.

Tony Everan; I'd counter that. I agree, we need to uncover potential such as Godfrey and Nkounkou, but I would argue its sensible to balance recruitment with experience and established players alongside.

Robert Tressell
63 Posted 30/07/2021 at 11:16:31
Jerome # 58, your list is going to make depressing reading.

More generally, I can't find the data on transfermarkt but there's a report from Jan 2021 which says Everton are 5th in Europe in net spend in the past 5 years behind only Inter, Barca, City and United.

Now that surely is staggering.

Even if (as is likely, Rob) Moshiri is just here to build a stadium, you'd still expect a better return on outlay than our 12th and 10th consecutive finishes.

There's a few other Prem clubs that have spent heavily without success, Villa, Fulham, Brighton and Sheff Utd - but these all got promoted and had to turn a championship squad into a prem quality squad in short order.

We started our 5 year spending spree with a decent, established premier league squad.

So I think it really would be very hard to find worse performance in recruitment than us across Europe in the past 5 years.

Andrew Keatley
64 Posted 30/07/2021 at 12:23:39
Robert (63) - What was our squad worth five years ago, and what is worth now? Surely that has to be a fairly major consideration in all this. A quick check on Transfermarkt shows that our 2016/17 squad was worth £280.13 million - while our current squad is deemed to be worth £445.95 million. I’m not suggesting we’ve been prudent or inspired in terms of recruitment, and we’ve made four or five disastrous forays into the transfer market in that time, but I think we have pretty much wiped our noses, all things considered.
Robert Tressell
65 Posted 30/07/2021 at 12:42:39
By comparison Andrew, in the same period:

Villa have gone from £112m to £429m having been relegated in the interim

Leicester have gone from £125m to £549m

City have gone from £501m to £1bn

We have, I guess, persistently hovered around the 8th most valuable squad mark - we've just done it with a net spend that dwarfs that of Champions League giants.

We're not going to agree!

We can keep trading stats or flowerbed analogies but it might be dull for other contributors. By all means deliver your killer blow from here but I'll leave it at that.

Until next time Mr Keatley 👍

Phil Smith
66 Posted 30/07/2021 at 13:04:43
Rod (52) that info is not up to date.
Andrew Keatley
67 Posted 30/07/2021 at 14:18:38
Robert, I completely agree with you that other clubs have outperformed us in the transfer market, so cherry-pick away. But I disagree with you in respect of how the strategy of Everton football club was the root cause of this failure, and that it has essentially been a case of a disappointing run of failure outweighing success.

As it happens, your strategy of copying Leicester is old news; we tried it 5 years ago by hiring their chief scout Steve Walsh as our DOF - and depending on who you believe, he was either desperately unable to replicate Leicester’s extraordinary recruitment winning streak, or the club did not back him in some his “riskier” chosen targets (e.g Haaland, Maguire and Robertson). Those three are all complete no-brainers now, yet we hesitated for one reason or another - with the main problem being that there is no such thing as a dead cert in this game.

Phil Smith
68 Posted 30/07/2021 at 16:01:26
Don't get your info from just one source. Cross referenced across a bunch of sites. We've spent over 150m less on our CURRENT squad than Liverpool in the same period (not including players who are no longer with us/them like Walcott or Wijnaldum etc.)

Your words: "Liverpool (and Leicester) do not have expensively assembled squads compared to us."

I call bullshit. Leicester, yes, the Shite, no fecking way, la.

Andrew Keatley
69 Posted 30/07/2021 at 17:06:01
I’d say Leicester have spent a considerable amount. Here is what they paid for their current squad (so not including free transfers and homegrown players):

Tielemans - £40 million
Fofana - £31.5 million
Perez - £30 million
Daka - £27 million
Iheanacho - £25 million
Maddison - £22.5 million
Pereira - £20 million
Soyuncu - £19 million
Soumare- £18 million
Castagne - £18 million
Praet - £17 million
Ndidi - £16 million
Mendy - £14 million
Benkovic - £13 million
Ghezzal - £12.5 million
Amartey - £6 million
Justin - £6 million
Evans - £3.5 million
Schmeichel - £1.5 million
Vardy - £1.1 million

Here is our current squad:
Sigurdsson - £44.5 million
Richarlison- £35.28 million
Iwobi - £27.36 million
Mina - £27.23 million
Keane - £25.65 million
Pickford - £25.65 million
Godfrey - £24.75 million
Kean - £24.75 million
Allan £22.5 million
Gomes - £22.5 million
Gbamin - £22.5 million
Tosun - £20.25 million
Doucoure - £19.89 million
Digne - £18.18 million
Delph - £8.55 million
Gray - £1.8 million
Calvert-Lewin - £1.62 million
Holgate - £1.26 million
Branthwaite - £1 million
Nkounkou - £0.243 million
Coleman - £0.06 million

So my mental arithmetic tells me we’ve spent roughly £25 million more. Which is about 6% more than Leicester have spent - which hopefully demonstrates that there is not a massive gulf in terms of expenditure.

Barry Hesketh
70 Posted 30/07/2021 at 17:20:04
Andrew @69
An interesting comparison, however, Everton's main issue isn't the amount it has paid for the players we bought at the time, it's the fact that most of the players have been really, really disappointing out on the pitch and in most cases their value has reduced alarmingly. It would be interesting to see how much Leicester and Everton have recouped in sales during the last five years.

We have been terrible in the market during the last half a decade or so and changing the manager every five minutes hasn't helped either. I sense a return to the make do and mend economics which beset the Moyes era, and Benitez will need all of his experience to steer the ship through some choppy waters that are ahead of Everton in the next few months.

Brian Harrison
71 Posted 30/07/2021 at 17:33:30
Andrew @69,

What you haven't taken into consideration is, in the last 4 or 5 years, Everton player sales to offset their purchases have been virtually nothing (except for the sale of Gueye) whereas Leicester City have sold the following:

Chilwell – £45 million,
Maguire – £78 million,
Mahrez – £61 million,
Drinkwater – £34 million, and
Kante – £32 million

If my maths are correct, they have recouped £250 million.

The FFP rules are based on net spend which shows how well Leicester have been run and how poorly Everton have been run. Not only have they sold their best player year on year, they still won the Premier League and the FA Cup, as well as being able to compete with the Top 4.

Darren Hind
72 Posted 30/07/2021 at 17:59:52
Fuckin' 'ell, Brian,

I kinda knew of those Leicester sales, but when you put them together like that. It really does make you sit up. £250M for players who cost comparative buttons is incredible!

Danny O’Neill
73 Posted 30/07/2021 at 18:16:15
Andrew, Brian. As I've always said. Within reason, it's not what you spend, it's how you spend.
Andrew Keatley
74 Posted 30/07/2021 at 18:39:32
Barry and Brian

That wasn't the issue I was addressing; the point I was trying to counter was Robert's assertion that “Liverpool (and Leicester) do not have expensively assembled squads compared to us" – which I think is just factually incorrect.

But yes, in the last 5 years we have acquired various expensive players that have underperformed and decreased in value – while choosing to retain the players that have been increasing in value. We've also struggled to offload players, full stop.

So, since 2016, it's probably only been Stones, Lukaku, Gueye, and Tyias Browning that have seen us make considerable profit, which is probably a result of how underwhelming our on-pitch exploits have been.

Brian Harrison
75 Posted 30/07/2021 at 19:14:38
Darren 72

I think what is even more amazing than the amount of money they have amassed in player sales, but the fact that it hasnt stopped them competing at the very top of the league. I read a fact a while back which said they have spent longer in the top 2 in the Premier League over the past 2 seasons than Man City, how scary is that?.

Darren Hind
76 Posted 30/07/2021 at 19:27:24
I hate to admit it, Brian, but they are beginning to look dangerously like the club I want us to be.

They have to be recognised as another club with whom we are now playing catch up. Seems only yesterday when Nigel Pearson was angrily shouting down reporters who were predicting certain relegation.

I never thought I would be jealous of Leicester City's achievements, but I am. Sometimes you just have to give credit where it is due. Their fans have had a far better time of it than we have in recent years and your numbers go a long way to explaining why.

Tony Abrahams
77 Posted 30/07/2021 at 19:41:30
Been in, and out the other side of administration, and have also won every major domestic honour since Everton were saved by Kenwright.

I thought there wasn't much between the two sides at the end of Marco Silva's first season, except it seems that one club had a proper plan, whilst the other club was caught between two stools, and it's been all downhill for Everton since then imo.

Darren Hind
78 Posted 30/07/2021 at 19:45:17
I'm out of this thread.

Too many home truths to stomach on me night off.

Andy Crooks
79 Posted 30/07/2021 at 21:09:14
Darren, don't fret about Leicester. They have Rodgers, we have Rafa. They have…

Actually, just enjoy your night off.

By the way, hope you will be at the Bramley-Moore on 25 September.

Phil Smith
80 Posted 30/07/2021 at 21:12:52
Andrew, I didn't think Leicester had spent any way near us but the numbers don't lie. As they're getting more successful, so too seems to be their transfer outlay. And ours have gone down. No more spunking £28M on the likes of Iwobi, thank God. £30M for Perez!??! I think that's almost as bad though.

Brian, you missed Lukaku and Stones – our largest profits on sales. Made a tidy profit on them and I'm sure we'll sell Calvert-Lewin and Holgate for good money also in the coming seasons. We've been generally rubbish though.

Paul Birmingham
81 Posted 30/07/2021 at 21:20:37
The only hope is that Everton will learn the very hardest way possible about their ill-conceived and generally poor transfer strategy under Walsh and Koeman.

The 40 days and nights of a season in the blight and edging towards 40 years.

I hope this season Rafa can get a consistent tune out of his players. Fitness coaching will be as important as ever.

But as many have rightfully cited, Leicester are light years ahead of Everton in transfer

Hope eternal.

Graham Mockford
82 Posted 30/07/2021 at 21:23:41
Brian 75,

Palpably untrue stat. I don't even need to check it.

Tom Richards
83 Posted 30/07/2021 at 21:33:28
Good set up at Leicester. Good manager, good squad. We should endeavour to achieve similar to their performance last season over our next couple of seasons.

Then the push.
Andrew Keatley
84 Posted 30/07/2021 at 22:37:20
Graham (75),

Or you could check it. I know that Leicester City spent more time in the Top 4 of the Premier League over the last two seasons than any other team, so Brian's claim sounds pretty plausible to me.

Kieran Kinsella
85 Posted 30/07/2021 at 22:59:14

The transfers fees are bad enough but we also offer ridiculous contracts. Ordinarily a guy like Bolasie would be eager to get a new 2- or 3-year deal elsewhere before his contract expired.

But his wage at Everton was such that he earned in the last year what he might accumulate in 3 years anywhere else. So why risk leaving, possibly seeing a career ending injury cut that money supply short when you can survive on year unscathed at Everton and get the money in the bank.

Andrew Keatley
86 Posted 30/07/2021 at 23:30:48
Kieran - I agree. When Moshiri arrived it heralded a chance for us to be more competitive in the transfer market, but sadly the powers that be got a bit punchy with transfer fees and contact terms in the hope of expediting success and the profligacy is there for all to see.

When Lukaku left, it was an open secret that we'd be reinvesting that money straight away, on top of Moshiri letting it be known that he was ready to invest heavily in the squad to bridge the gap to challenge for the Top 4, so it was no surprise that other clubs managed to get us to pay top whack for their players, and agents made sure to negotiate great contracts for their clients. We were a fool with new money.

Getting contract terms right is another tough call; too short and you run the risk of a successful player choosing not to renegotiate and potentially running down their contract to move on at the first instance (either for free or a lesser fee based on the fear of eventually losing them for free) - or too long and you get a Bolasie scenario where you are paying one of the highest wages at the club to a player who has not worn a first team shirt for 3 years, and who nobody is interested in buying as nobody would even get close to offering a comparable salary for a player who is no longer considered to be worth that sort of weekly wage. It's a minefield.

Don Alexander
87 Posted 30/07/2021 at 00:04:40
I haven't read every post on this thread but if someone/anyone can explain what we as a club have gained financially from the free transfer of the lad to Hearts of Midlothian after years and years of our famed (to some) academy "developing" him at our expense, and it won't have been at minimum wage will it, I'd like to know.

I also read very rational disappointment from some of us in comparing us against Leicester City, a team who won zilch until the 21st century, becoming a team who've since only once won the Premier League, only once won the FA Cup, but did win in 2009 the 3rd Division (now called League Two) championship in fairness. A proud moment for them I'm sure, and it dwarfs our "achievements".

Disappointment and extreme anger is therefore 100% valid to me.

What on earth would our fortunes have been during the past 30 years, never mind 6, if our boardroom had ever had an ounce of the insight, decisiveness or courage that their owners, scouts, coaches and board have displayed in the past 6 years, appointing manager after manager as they have, whilst also maintaining a league and European profile way above ours?

Even my arl mate Dazza has agreed with me (in terms mate, not literally, unless you want to expound, again!) by pointing out the decades-long ineptitude of Billy Blue-Balls in our boardroom so, if two total Toffee lunatics can agree on that, might it just be that we have identified the problem?

And if we have identified it, why are so many of his personally appointed ex-player coaches still infesting the club with, as said, the latest potentially Academy big star moving on as a free to Hearts?

I'd like an accountant at the club to explain the money regarding Baningime, and so many more like him.

As if!

Brian Wilkinson
88 Posted 30/07/2021 at 00:17:00
Kieran@86, spot on, the wages we put those players on, make it hard to move them on.

Moving onto our neighbours, they can get in excess of over £20 Million for Salanke ffs and others they manage to get a fee for.

Everton on the other hand, have players happy to run their contracts down, than take a wage drop elsewhere.

Another note on not being able to compete with the shite for players, we had the option to sign both Robertson and Virgil, years before the shite signed them, we decided against signing both.

We even had the Swedish scout begging Everton not to let Haaland slip through their fingers, we ignored his advice and did not take up the option to keep him, and sent him on his way.

Very poor management by Everton on transfer fees, wages, and above all else, a lack of fitness.

Hopefully now, Rafa will make them fitter, work harder and above all else, be an end to second rate players we brought in for big transfer fees.

More than happy with the three signings coming in, for very little transfer fees.

Jim Jennings
89 Posted 31/07/2021 at 07:50:05
Don (87)

I don't know whether your post is a case for the prosecution or the defence but it's quite simple. Baningime, like all footballers, have a contract which the club must honour. That involves paying the player a wage. The player is almost 23 years old and evidently no closer to making the first team than he was five years ago.

Let's say the player earns £10k per week. Rather than pay that wage for the next 12 months to a player who ain't gonna contribute to the first team, a decision has been taken to let him switch club for either free or a nominal fee. That therefore saves half a million over the next 12 months. In turn, it also frees up a spot on the Under-23s for a younger prospect to get more game time and test themselves.

As I said, it's not that difficult to understand. But if it helps you sleep better at night to attribute it to the boogie man in your head (ex-players on the Academy staff), then knock yourself out.

Marc Hints
90 Posted 31/07/2021 at 09:55:15
Brian #88,

You're right – it is worrying the poor management, lack of judgement etc... the last few years has been so poor. I even think Villa will now overtake us in the Top 6 to Top 10 places.

Jay Evans
91 Posted 31/07/2021 at 12:05:57
Beni we love ya !

Good luck son.

Dave Abrahams
92 Posted 31/07/2021 at 13:21:17
I hope Beni Banginime does the business and carves out a career for himself at Hearts and elsewhere. He was a good footballer just needed to assert himself a bit more, unlucky with injuries even in the U18’s but carried on and got his professional start with the Blues and played at every level for the club, best wishes Beni and plenty of good luck.
Duncan McDine
93 Posted 31/07/2021 at 20:09:38
Beni makes his Hearts debut tonight.
Duncan McDine
94 Posted 31/07/2021 at 20:10:51
And Hearts go 1-0 up within 10 mins against Celtic!
John Keating
95 Posted 31/07/2021 at 20:46:41
Beni with a couple of interceptions but a bit of a passenger so far. The pace of the game is a bit much for him.
Alan McGuffog
96 Posted 31/07/2021 at 21:32:55
Have you read John Collins's view of Beni's performance on the BBC just now.
John Keating
97 Posted 31/07/2021 at 21:52:11
Winning debut for Beni and a big improvement second half.

Hearts under the cosh but Celtic horrendous defensively.

Alan McGuffog
98 Posted 31/07/2021 at 22:11:56
BBC saying he could be signing of the season. If you didn't larf…
Allen Rodgers
99 Posted 31/07/2021 at 22:33:53
MotM tonight according to BBC. Well in, Beni!
John Raftery
100 Posted 31/07/2021 at 22:35:46
Man of the Match, according to the BBC report.
Mike Jones
101 Posted 31/07/2021 at 22:40:52
May have been MotM. Could be his level. Not a Premier League player.
Andy Crooks
102 Posted 31/07/2021 at 23:10:03
How do you know that, Mike? Total conjecture, I guess.

Have a wee look at those who have played in Scotland recently and have moved to the Premier League. They are actually not bad footballers.

I have a feeling that this was a monumental blunder by our club. Total conjecture, you will quite rightly think. But.. you know what, now and again we get transfers wrong. Actually I have a feeling that our dealings in the transfer market in the last 10 years have been as bad as anything in the history of football anywhere in the universe.

No-one is ever called to account. That is where Don Alexander and many others are spot-on. No business ever, anytime, ever, could get away with what has been got away with at our club. I honestly believe that – with a word in the right ear, the right connections, a handshake with blue Bill, and a few tears – I could get a living out of Everton FC.

Kevin Prytherch
103 Posted 31/07/2021 at 23:33:43
Andy 102, spot on with our transfer decisions; however, I would argue they only became this bad once Moshiri came, so reference to Kenwright could be wide of the mark.

Just before Moshiri, we had the likes of Lukaku, McCarthy, Deulofeu and Barry sign, which were still decent transfers and, I would argue, fitted with the so-called Leicester model. We just lacked the clout to get those final one or two to complete the team.

Paul Birmingham
104 Posted 31/07/2021 at 23:53:09
I've spoken with my mate after the game, who's a season-ticket holder at Hearts, and he said he looked a good player today.

I hope the lad makes his mark and his career kicks on. Well done, Beni.

Don Alexander
105 Posted 31/07/2021 at 00:11:04
Jim (#89),

You seem to accept the fact that we pay young players a wage that is exorbitant, for five years, his end product to the club being zilch by any measure.

You also seem to applaud the financial savvy of getting rid of him for nowt after all those years to "free up" wage expenditure elsewhere.

I'm not an accountant but I cannot overlook the time and expense the club and his coaches have squandered on him for years, the square sum of their and his input having delivered sweet fuck-all for us.

And I don't give a shite whether he spends the rest of the season being MotM for Hearts of Midlothian, an accolade that to some of us now seems bizarrely laudable.

And lastly, if you're still wondering Jim, I think Finch Farm has been infested for years by inadequate ex-player coaches who've sucked up to a cheapskate chairman in order to get a very comfortable living whilst producing, as the pinnacle of their achievement, only Tom Davies as an occasional, perennially modest, first-team player.

Jim Jennings
106 Posted 01/08/2021 at 03:38:47
Don (105)

I don't “accept” anything. You asked for an explanation. I gave you one, using a 10k wage as an example purely as it is a nice round number. If that were his wage – and I have no idea if it is – then it would not be exorbitant for a Premier League player.

Re your views on Finch Farm, I had no idea you saw it that way and have never seen you mention it before but it's a novel take on things. I'd be interested in hearing more – why don't you post an article?

Alan J Thompson
107 Posted 01/08/2021 at 06:44:32
As a player, I doubt Beni reads these postings and might be a fool if he did but I wonder if he would feel pleased or disappointed with the perceived comparisons.

On the matter of any benefit to Everton on this transfer, it could be that on the figures submitted 1 March as to year end's (30 June?) profit and loss that Everton might point to the reduction in wages as an indicator of steps being taken to reduce the losses; how many juniors, end-of-contract seniors and transfers out have lowered the wage bill, or just allowed the three in-comings.

As to whether our transfer business has been successful in the last 5 or 6 years, perhaps the question might be: Has it significantly improved our performance or league position? – albeit we have on-sold some for significant profit.

Eddie Dunn
108 Posted 01/08/2021 at 07:52:24
Well I am pleased for the lad and I hope his career really blossoms with Hearts.
Colin Glassar
109 Posted 01/08/2021 at 08:52:53
Good article in the Echo which goes to show our academy is a waste of time and money.

Tom Davies is the only young player to “establish himself “ in the first team squad in recent years. The rest are sold for buttons and are, in the main, so poor you never hear of them again.

Brands was supposed to change all this but it seems things are just as bad as ever.

John Keating
110 Posted 01/08/2021 at 09:05:13
Jim @89,

I mentioned in my first post I didn't think Beni went for the money. The highest earner at Hearts last season was Steven Naismith. Even after taking a 50% cut, he was on about £4k a week. I think the average Hearts player's salary is about 2-3k a week. Probably similar to Hibs and Aberdeen/ Obviously Rangers and Celtic are a lot higher.

I think financially Beni would have got more £s at a Championship or good League One club in England. After so long at Everton, going up to Edinburgh was a bit of a surprise but good luck to the lad.

The first half passed him by last night but he improved vastly as Hearts defended even more in the second half. I'm sure. as he learns to pick up the pace of the Scottish game. he will do well and maybe open himself up to a more lucrative club.

Hugh Jenkins
111 Posted 01/08/2021 at 09:39:02
Beni was named MotM by the BBC in the Hearts win against Celtic yesterday.
Phil Smith
112 Posted 01/08/2021 at 14:22:55
“So poor you never hear of them again”, Colin? John Lundstram, Ryan Ledson and Kieran Dowell have kept at Championship level or better. Most of our other recent graduates are playing at decent clubs like Blackpool.

We still have 3 recent graduates in our side who will play some part in this coming season.

I think that comment is a little unfair. Are other clubs doing much better?

Ray Roche
113 Posted 01/08/2021 at 14:38:15
Phil, to be fair to Colin, we haven't sold many academy players for serious money since Rooney went. Stones came from Barnsley so we can discount him. I can't think of any others. The other crowd seem to move their young 'not quite good enough' players on for decent money but ours are clearly not good enough.
Colin Glassar
114 Posted 01/08/2021 at 14:57:29
Phil, I stand by my original comment. Our academy is poor to pathetic. We have a bunch of former players in charge, most of whom never won anything and were bang average themselves.

I’d love to produce another Rooney or Bainsey (who we let go at a young age) but it’s not happening. Maybe Brands needs to replace them all with the Ajax academy staff. They seem to be able to spot and nurture talent.

Paul Tran
115 Posted 01/08/2021 at 15:03:23
Our revenue is relatively low
Our expenditure is very high
Our recruitment has been shockingly poor

That's why we're struggling with FFP - we're the problem here, not the rules.

Good luck to Beni, played well in the second half, got lots of praise up here. A good chance for him to progress his career. The Scottish Premier League is a relatively poor league, with some very good or promising players. Half-decent young players can restart their careers, savvy clubs will pick up relative bargains, like Brentford getting Ajer for £15M.

Christy Ring
116 Posted 01/08/2021 at 15:58:09
Delighted for Beni, especially after getting MotM. Always hoped he'd make the breakthrough, but don't know what happened on his loan spell at Wigan and Derby, neither worked out.

No matter what young players we produce and sell, we get a pittance compared to our neighbours. Look how much they got for Brewster, who has been a disaster!!

John Keating
117 Posted 01/08/2021 at 21:50:13
I watched Motherwell v Hibs today
Early last season someone mentioned Kevin Nisbet and I said he was just looking to play as many games as he could and learn the game
He was in the Scotland squad for the euros do didn’t get too much to do!
Watching him today though early doors he has come on leaps and bounds. His link up play was exceptional
I appreciate it’s the SPL but this lad will go on to better for sure and someone will get a bargain
I wanted us to sign John McGinn when he was available and hope our Scottish scouts have had a good look at Nisbet
Andrew Flanagan
118 Posted 03/08/2021 at 15:12:30
Good luck to the lad. Never had the quality for top level and probably stuck around too long.

Everton have had no coherent strategy for building a team under Moshiri or Brands. What exactly is Brands doing? We have had 5 plans in his time there. Where are the shrewd signings and recruiting smart European players to develop?

A total mess

Phillip Warrington
119 Posted 04/08/2021 at 21:14:20
This guy will be a star for Hearts this season and will be picked up by a Premier League club next season for £10M-plus. In his first game for Hearts, he showed like he did for us in his first couple of games that he is not out of place. But, unlike us, if Hearts show their confidence in him and play him every week, he will be a star.

That's the problem with our managers – they play the promising youngsters for a game or two, normally pre-season, then they're either farmed out to lower division sides or sit on the bench watching our overpaid has-beens play instead, even when they are playing shit. That's why we have had only had one player, Tom Davies, who regularly plays or is on the bench, to come through our system in the last 5 years.

I will predict come the first Premier League game, there will be none of the players from the U23s in the first eleven, so once again, for another year, the senior players will know, even if they play shit, their positions are safe.

Charles Brewer
120 Posted 06/08/2021 at 09:47:46
The Edinburgh Evening News is purring about Beni's debut too. Now it may be that the standard of Scottish Premiership football is about that of League One in England & Wales, but he was playing against one of the only two quarter-decent teams in Scotland, and it sounds as though he outclassed the other 21 on the pitch.

It's far from clear what goes on at Goodson, but while spending £45 million on Sigurdsson, £28 million on Iwobi, £22 million on Gbamin and £20million on Tosun, and £9 million on Delph, every one of whom has been garbage, giving Banigime, Nkounkou, Hornby and a raft of others a decent, sustained run-out with the first team would not have had worse outcomes and would have been much less expensive.

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