Don't Fall in Love with a Loan Player! — TW Podcast Episode 3

Thank you all for another cracking Podcast.

As soon as you asked "most underrated player" Scott Gemmill was the first name in my head too. As you say he could pick a pass, but I always remember his ball-winning was impressive too. It was his anticipation that made him so good at intercepting (more than being a tackler).

I haven't listened to the podcast, but totally agree with the heading of this post, don't fall in love with a loan player. Now it's a different ball game if you take a player on loan with an agreed fee to buy him at the end of a loan spell.

But with the likes of Lingard who went to West Ham on loan played well-scored goals, fans loved him but no agreement to buy so went back to Man Utd.

Likewise with Donny van de Beek, he is only on loan till the end of the season and then he will go back to Man Utd, it just becomes a win-win for them. If he does well with us, they get back a player who has had games in the Premier League under his belt and if he has done well they get back a player in a better frame of mind than when he left them to come on loan.

Also Man Utd will be appointing a new manager in the summer so he will want Van de Beek back at the club so he can assess him. So no matter how well he does here there seems little or no chance he will be here for the start of next season.

Brian (2),

It's rarely as simple as a win-win. There was always the chance that Donny van de Beek would flatter to deceive for us, and that the loan might expose the shortcomings that Man Utd clearly suspect that he has. But if he continues to impress, and becomes a vitally important cog for us this season, there's a world in which the player would want to stay.

In fact, there's a world in which the prospect of returning to Man Utd to face the sort of treatment Lingard has received after his exceptional loan spell with West Ham last season is not something Donny van de Beek would want to risk happening – especially in a World Cup year.

If Donny van de Beek can be instrumental on setting us on a better course over the rest of the season then that's the key issue for me. Beyond that is anyone's guess.

Enjoyed this.

I don't care if Donny is a loanee and never becomes 'our' player. I love good players, whoever they play for. More so if they pull on the blue jersey of Everton. And Donny is a very good player.

Notice what a traffic cop he is. He lays the ball off and points to the receiving player where HE wants it back, or points out an alternative player to receive the ball. The sign of a player who, like a good chess player, is thinking several moves ahead from the one he has just made.

No loan-to-buy agreement in place. United made that very clear. But there is definitely several scenarios in which he could become our permanent player in the summer.

I'm sure Frank wouldn't say no, or will be in the market for a similar player.

Another nice podcast, guys, but I'm afraid the admonishment regarding Donny will go unheeded. Some folks on TW have spent years groaning about how we "lost" the cat-kicker -- and Eric Dier before him -- when they were never ours to lose. If Donny goes back to OT and becomes a mainstay, the teeth-nashing here will go on forever.

Best comment in the podcast was about Lampard's flexibility. One characteristic all our recent managers displayed was a stubbornness, adhering for too long to a set alignment or plan. Frank shows early signs of a quicker willingness to change on the fly.

My choice for most underrated will always be Gana. For every admirer here, there were always two detractors ready to deride him as a "tackling machine" or "headless chicken" who couldn't pass the ball or carry it forward. Only in his absence, and our difficulty in replacing him, has he been granted the appropriate measure of appreciation in our fan base for what a great player he really was for us.

Jags would be another. Not in anybody's all-time 11, but he had some truly magnificent moments.

And, of course, the man, the legend... Bryan Oviedo.

Donny van de Beek will want regular football in as high profile a league / club as he can get. Money too.

If Man Utd get Ten Hag as manager, then I expect he'll stay. If not, we'll be fighting it out with Newcastle and a few European clubs I expect.

Lovely footballer but probably not the best foil for Dele Alli – who we need to prioritise since he is our player now.

I could see us ending with (and not in a bad way) the likes of Berge, Doyle, Garner, Knight and Gilmour next season. Maybe even a revitalised Davies.

In the meantime, enjoy Van de Beek being really good at one touch football, pass and move etc.

Scot Gemmil as Everton's most underrated player?!?!? Oh my goodness

Excellent podcast as usual

I just can't get past the Scot Gemmil call out as Everton's most underrated player!!! Unbelievable!

Thanks for the show Lyndon

I'll listen later, but two things prior to opening my ears!

1. I'm in love with a loan player, and still maintain he'll be a permanent Blue somehow or another come the summer.

2. I was really hoping this TW podcast would interview and highlight individual contributors. Now don't get me wrong, Ell, Paul (really like Paul by the way), and Lyndon are fantastic! I was hoping the podcast "idea" might be to interview frequent contributors to the site as well. Folks such as Colin Glassar, Graham Mockford, Christine Foster, John Daly, find Eugene Ruane, Dave Abrahams and Tony Abrahams, etc. I was really looking forward to discussions with some of the "regulars" via a podcast as well.

Will listen later. Van de Beek fucking rocks.

Still got my doubts tbh.

"Tidy" players are alright surrounded by good players but in lesser company they look as though the safe option is all they have. In tight games supporters go up the wall seeing players passing 10 yards sideways when the game demands courageous driving at the oppo.

Just don't see it in him.

Really enjoyed that podcast. Is it intentional that each one is getting longer, or maybe you're getting more into the swing of it?

Re Richard Gough, I remember reading somewhere when we signed him that 'Everton's aspirations for this season can be summed up in two words: Richard Gough'.

I suppose that's fair enough when signing a 38-year-old from the MLS but he turned out to be a very good signing and I remember many bemoaning the fact that we got him so late in his career.

I can't quite buy into Scott Gemmill as so underrated, but I thought he was a decent player, just not as good as we wanted or hoped.

Keep up the good work chaps, you have a regular listener in me for sure.

I think we can all have an opinion about loan players. Sometimes they work out and sometimes not.

If Donny van de Beek makes a good contribution and Everton win a few more games, then I don't care if he goes back to Man Utd. The transfer market and loan market is an ever-revolving door for many players and there is very little loyalty except to the almighty pay packet.

We were impressed with what the whole team did against Leeds and in particular with the intensity from the kick-off. Something we haven't seen much of this season.

With some very tough fixtures coming up, we need to have more of the same from everybody to get some more valuable points.

Add on to "the cat kicker", Manny Fernandes as the loan signing we all wanted.

Landon Donovan was another who I wish we could have had for a full season each time.

Thanks for another terrific podcast. I am just happy to enjoy Van de Beek's performances while we have him. He has transformed our midfield play to an extent unimaginable until last week.

Although I don't expect him to be with us next season, the player will have noted the way Jesse Lingard has been marginalised this season after his successful loan spell at West Ham. Obviously we would need to sell a significant player or players to raise the funds required to buy him. In any event we will need to find that type of intelligent, midfield dynamo if we want to make progress next season.

It was great to hear positive reviews of all the players who played on Saturday. Let's hope they can earn the same on Saturday.

Remember the clamour to get Terry Curran signed up after he tore Luton Town an extra one forty odd years back

Irrespective of what happens to Donny van de Beek, I suspect Frank & his team will have alternative solutions lined up – and a priority list for other positions he wants to strengthen.

Really enjoying this podcast so far, guys. It's great to have some level-headed analysis - particularly after a tough setback such as the Newcastle loss, where you can quickly drown in the negativity on these pages. Lyndon's voice is every bit as calming as his writing.

Jamie (8) - how soon can we get Darren, Graham, Kieran and Don Alexander on together, LOL?

Bill - my point exactly!!!

There's yet another group of contributors I'd find HOURS of entertainment listening to.

Some of them all together at once may end up in a virtual bar brawl! But quite seriously I'd love to hear the thoughts of individuals whose comments I read on these very pages, verbally through a podcast medium.

I'd be absolutely hyped to see some of the people I mentioned above, not to mention a host of others unnamed, as guests / one-off contributors.

With reference to the headline, I know I am going back a bit to the eighties, but we had a player on loan from Sheffield Wednesday I think. Terry Curran, he was absolutely, or appeared to be the missing piece of our jig-saw. Everton fans, myself included, were clammering for the Club to sign him permanently.

Which they did, and probably paid more than we should have really. After he became ' our player ' he reverted back into detritus mode.

However I can't see that happening with Donny VdB, although it's early days for sure, he does appear to have what we need. Remembering too, that he was outstanding at Ajax, so not a flash in the pan, or a flush in the pan like Terry Curran.

Scott gemmil not in the same class as his dad / uncle Archie at derby and forest

Bill (#16) I'm genuinely touched by your "nomination" but as at least one other would almost certainly say (in his own mad world) being "touched" should preclude my participation!

The Podcast is a gem by the way, thanks lads!

Just finished. Great podcast. Thoroughly enjoyed it.

The podcast went over an hour because all three contributors were thrilled with the Leeds game and the individual performances, so why not chat a bit longer!

Most underrated Everton player? The first name that popped into my mind was James McCarthy.

Did all the dirty work. He was the engine of the best midfield in my Blue life. A ball winner who would win the ball, then get it to a player quickly to move forward. He was tough as nails, gritty, and possessed far more talent than I think people gave him credit for.

Jamie: "I was really hoping this TW podcast would interview and highlight individual contributors..."

That is still the plan, Jamie. I wanted to a get a few "in the can" and prove both the concept and the listenership (good start but I'm hoping it will grow) before I reached out to the community to get an idea of who they would like to hear from.

So, seeing as you've more or less kicked that off, I invite people to pitch some names of TW regulars they would like interviewed into this thread.

James (10): " Is it intentional that each one is getting longer, or maybe you're getting more into the swing of it?"

It will fluctuate but certainly getting more into the swing of things helps but we also added a couple of regular features – the memories of past games that correspond to the upcoming fixture and the weekly question. An hour seems like a good amount of time but there other pods that go 90 minutes and beyond. It depends on how much is going on, I suppose!

I think the two Moyes cleverly nicked from Rangers when they we struggling financially, Jelavic & Naismith deserve a mention in the underrated stakes. Jelavic hit the ground running & scored some crackers, largely due I recall to him shooting really early & catching keepers off guard. Naismith of course will be remembered for scoring a great hattrick v Chelsea.

Bill 16

I'm down. Let's go Don. Funnily enough though I have a podcast — not football related — but lots of interviews, most amicable some quite testy lol

Just on the issue of under-rated Everton players I suggest Kevin Richardson is at the top of the list. Understandably never being a regular in our trophy-winning midfield in the mid 80's, he always played well when called upon (as did Alan Harper and Paul Power).

His career post-Everton was similarly impressive, at Watford, Arsenal (he was in the team that stuffed "them" 0-2 to win the League) and Villa. He even won an England cap towards the back end of his career, which was some achievement back in those days, unlike now.

If I remember well, just a few years ago, we had fallen in love with a certain loanee called Landon Donovan, didn't we?

Yep, Eddie, but we all knew it was a temporary gig. No chance he was going to join us permanently.

I don't know if he was under rated by Everton fans, but certainly by the media - Lee Carsley. He was not the most exciting of players but he was quietly effective in what he did - protecting the back 4, winning the ball and starting moves from our half. Remember the joke on TW those days - "Real Madrid got the wrong baldy"? :-)

I'd bet against DVB staying. Not implausible but best we may probably achieve this season is around 10th and if he does well he will have better placed clubs keen on him. But it's certainly not impossible.

In terms of underrated players I always think of Joseph Yobo. Think he might have been Moyes first signing (?) and he was instrumental in making us a much harder team to score against and going from a team on the brink of relegation to a team in the 4th Champions League spot. Lightning fast and dominant in the air, he probably stayed too long and towards the end was increasingly prone to lapses of concentration but he might still be my favourite CB we've had in the last 20 years. Certainly underrated by many.

Don't worry about Van de Beek as Bill is all over this and if he shows the consistent form that makes United want to take him back then Bill has lined up on loan two other players they don't seem to want, Pogba and Ronaldo. Get your Mam on the phone, Rangnik!

Thanks Lyndon, hopefully the good feeling around the club will continue so you'll have more and more to talk about each time! Have you considered most over-rated player? Maybe one for when we're all feeling less positive :-)

I've actually managed to get a ticket for the Southampton game and it's a rare event for me to get to a game so am very much looking forward to seeing some of the new players in action. I'm hoping to do a match report after, but that's more likely to come to fruition if we get a good result!

Lyndon -

Thank you for the reply, and good news to my ears!

Much more measured approach on your part. Probably why you're so skilled at running this site. I'd have gone all "hair on fire" and started interviewing people on episode 1. Get some in the can indeed!

Ajay @28 -

Carsley wasn't underrated. He was a fantastic footballer, and anyone who knows anything about team sport would appreciate him!

But yes, I wasn't there but can only imagine, he was severely underrated by media and those outside EFC.

Lyndon #22 "I invite people to pitch some names of TW regulars they would like interviewed into this thread."

Lyndon, Mr Abrahams - pere et fils.

I second The Godfather of TW, Dave Abrahams.

Don @ 25:

I liked Richardson too.

I also remember him "Starring" in this experiment in his time at Arsenal, which some may recall.

Link

This clip btw doesn't show at least a couple more outbursts at Elleray I remember from him in the programme. He was definitely combative. If anyone has the full thing, please post it.

Sam #29
Your mention of Joseph Yobo brings me back to an incident that happened outside Goodison on one of my few visits to watch us play in the flesh, and a story I have always been meaning to share here on ToffeeWeb.

It was the last game of the 2002/2003 season at home to Man Utd.
Everton took the lead through a Kevin Campbell goal but United went on to win 2-1 after goals from Beckham (a fantastic free kick) and Ruud van Nistelrooy but it was an incident outside the stadium afterwards that stuck in my memory.

We were waiting around outside where the players get onto the team bus. Yobo went past and as he did, handed his boots to a young Everton fan in a nice gesture. Unfortunately I then witnessed an Everton Steward snatch the boots off the kid and put them under his jacket.

I managed to attract the attention of a policeman and told him what had happened. The policeman was reluctant at first to take any action but eventually after I continued to press him, he approached the steward and asked him to open his jacket. Sure enough out popped the boots.

Unfortunately the young kid could not be found so we made sure the boots were taken by an Everton staff member and I filled them in on what had happened.
When I returned home to Ireland after the weekend, I contacted the club and they assured me that the incident was being dealt with, and the individual would no longer be working as a steward at Everton games.

I never did find out if the boots ever found their way to the young kid who would now be in his mid-twenties.

Brian #37 - well done, Sir. And good to see the police didn't turn a blind eye to it.

And I can now reveal that that "young fan" was indeed me - a 50-year-old dressed as a kid to be able to get those boots.

I didn't realise until today what you did and I'll be writing to EFC (in my worst schoolboy handwriting) to get those damn boots.

It's early days of DVDBs Everton, career and this season will take its course and hopefully a good course for Everton.

Who's to say what will happen but the player himself will have some input on his destiny.

But let's see what happens v Soton.

Did we not fall in love with a loanee in Duncan Ferguson? That turned out alright. No reason we cannot land Van de Beek as well, if he continues to shine.

Like I said in a previous post, if all goes well, I fully expect Man Utd to either keep him, or use him to tempt Everton to sell them Calvert-Lewin.

Lyndon

I'd like to hear from Dave Abrahams, John Mcfarlane and John Boon about the black-and-white days. They all have a different perspective from the age 40-60 crowd on here. All three seem like smart, eloquent gents too so I'm sure they'd be great interviewees.