Everton 0 - 3 Manchester City

Everton could not lay a proverbial glove to Champions Manchester City despite holding out for 37 minutes at Goodison Park.

Sean Dyche has been forced to make one change from the team that did so well at Brighton, with Mason Holgate coming in to replace the injured Mykolenko. Reece Welch is elevated to the first-team bench from the Under-21s.

The visitors got the game going and calmly kept possession for much of the opening spell, Mina and Haaland getting an early discussion with the referee. City tried a few probing balls forward that ended up with Pickford and were launched back upfield.

Everton made a couple of good interventions, getting forward through McNeil to win the first corner. Garner swung it into the danger area but Rodri cleared it but Everton thought they had a half-chance when they pressed the City defence. 

Holgate gave away a free-kick wide right with a foul on Mahrez, cleared, but City kept working it around, Tarkowski clearing the cross and Everton countering but Doucouré could not beat his defender.

City were able to control the play until another decent counter through Garner and Calvert-Lewin might have produced more with City defenders in reverse to cover. Calvert-Lewin got a chance to run at the City defence but was effectively dispossessed.

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Walker and Alverez got behind the lines on the right but Tarkowski kept it away from the Everton goal. Foden then skinned Patterson on the left, forcing a City corner, Laporte reacting to Mina's close attentions.

City created a dangerous move but Gundogan was somehow judged to be offside. Everton got some rare possession and tried to advance but the turnover was yielded too easily and City came forward, Gundogan forcing a corner that was cleared, but Everton possession again crucially surrendered. 

Another City attack and Patterson had to concede the corner, Gundogan launching his cross behind. Gundogan was called for a foul on Garner, that let McNeil launch a deep cross that forced a corner. Garner forced Ederson to punch it clear but Everton stifled the City break. 

Gundogan again beat Patterson and won a corner, but Mahrez blazed his shot over from the 18-yard line. Everton troied to up the empo and the crowd responded but they still could not break into the City area and instead, the play ended up the other end, with another City corner. Foden's drive was blocked by McNeil. 

Claverer-Lewin tried to break on his own but Mahreez collided with him in the centre-cricle Garner tried to make something of it but City countered with Alvarez needing some cunning work from Ga na to halt him. 

Another Everton counter almost set up a chance for Calvert-Lewin but for Walker coming across quickly to deny him at the expense of another corner. Tarkowski won the header but Holgate couldn't react to redirect the rebound at the post.

City got up the other end, Rodri shooting low and Pickford saving. City attacked again and this time Gundogan produced a clever reverse flick after Mahrezz picked him out that beat Pickford.  

And straight from the restart, Gundogan overlapped and his cross was sky high above the Everton defenders but not the equally elevated Haaland who headed easily past the flapping Pickford. 

Mina was lucky not to be carded for barging Haaland over to prevent him reaching a lofted ball forward but City fired wide this time. City were easily in complete control at this stage, Mina somehow stopping a point-blank finish by Gundogan.  Everton had defended well for 37 minutes of the first half but City's goals were of a different class.

Everton restarted with the massive task of trying to change the course of the game without Calvert-Lewin, Maupay on instead. . Garner was booked for barging Foden down on the edge of the Everton area. Gundogan scooped it into the top corner with consummate ease, Pickford well on the wrong side of the goal. 

Holgate did a similar thing to Marhrez on the other side of the penalty area. Mahrez's free-kick came off the wall and was put behind by Garner. Dyche made some more subs and Everton actually had a spell of possession, forcing a corner but Maupay unable to finish. 

City countered and it looked like Haaland would score again but he shot wide. Everton played up again and had some possession but could not fashion a chance. 

McNeil tried a shot that was blocked away for a corner, punched behind by Ederson. Tarkowski got ahead of Onna to head goalward, forcing Ederson to put it behind off the bar for a third corner.  From that one, Mina headed down but the ball bounced harmlessly over. 

Some great interchange passing out from the back was spoiled by Doucouré's giveaway in midfield. Maupay ran around a lot but he was no Calvert-Lewin. 

Pickford rather clumsily pushed Haaland in the head as he tried to catch a bouncing ball and was lucky the referee thought little of it. Everton worked what looked to be a good chance but Laporte's foot denied Onana the shot.

The futility of the task was summed up by a spell when  Everton tried to play out but were easily pushed back until Pickford wellied it long and into City's possession. 


Everton: Pickford, Patterson, Mina, Tarkowski, Holgate (56' Coady), Iwobi, Garner [Y:48'](76' Gray), Gana (56' Onana), Doucoure, McNeil, Calvert-Lewin (46' Maupay)

Subs not Used: Begovic, Lonergan, Keane,  Simms, Welch.

Manchester City: Ederson, Walker, Dias (90+1' Gomez). Laporte, Akanji, Rodri (88' Phillips), Gundogan (76' Silva), Mahrez, Foden, Alvarez, Haaland (78' Grealish).

Subs not Used: Ortega, Stones, De Bruyne, Palmer, Lewis.

Reader Comments (412)

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James Hughes
1 Posted 14/05/2023 at 13:01:50
Argh… Holgate at left-back!
Ben King
2 Posted 14/05/2023 at 13:03:31
Mykolenko must be injured.

Holgate at left-back?

Will Mabon
3 Posted 14/05/2023 at 13:03:33
Holgate replaces Mykolenko but we don't know why?
Allen Rodgers
4 Posted 14/05/2023 at 13:04:12
Holgate own goal or red card very likely. Drat!

Eddie Dunn
5 Posted 14/05/2023 at 13:05:47
Mykolenko must be carrying a knock and Dyche wants him fit for the two games that we are more likely to win.

Kevin Naylor
6 Posted 14/05/2023 at 13:06:36
Holgate FFS
Rob Baker
7 Posted 14/05/2023 at 13:06:48
Holgate starts at LB. Seriously? :-(
Will Mabon
8 Posted 14/05/2023 at 13:07:42
Holgate vs Mahrez - "Interesting".
Christine Foster
9 Posted 14/05/2023 at 13:07:49
Jim Bennings
10 Posted 14/05/2023 at 13:07:59
Mykolenko must be unwell?
Andrew Merrick
11 Posted 14/05/2023 at 13:08:20
No Mykoleno??
Kevin Naylor
12 Posted 14/05/2023 at 13:09:04
Pissed off becuase Ukraine didnt do back to back Eurovisions.
Christine Foster
13 Posted 14/05/2023 at 13:09:12
Probably somewhere in the Eurovision village..still out looking for him...
Phil Sammon
14 Posted 14/05/2023 at 13:09:14
Hate Holgate whether RB or LB but can’t blame Dyche for this call. Absolutely no options.
Steven Telford
15 Posted 14/05/2023 at 13:09:31
Everybody looked at that and thought the same thing:- Holgate.
Anthony A Hughes
16 Posted 14/05/2023 at 13:11:29
Mykolenko must have been on the piss at the Eurovision last night.
Mark Frere
17 Posted 14/05/2023 at 13:12:13
Not that we have many alternatives... but FFS! Holgate!?!? What could possibly go wrong?!?!
Neil Lawson
18 Posted 14/05/2023 at 13:13:20
Be positive. At least he's not centre back. Relieved to see also, that Pep has left out all his big hitters as forecast !!. He must be expecting a proper game. I hope that he is correct. Not sure if my heart is up to it. Lawnmower primed and ready for 2pm cut.
Bill Gall
19 Posted 14/05/2023 at 13:14:06
City not resting many players, imagine having a bench with that much talent.
Iain Johnston
20 Posted 14/05/2023 at 13:15:24
No Godfrey on the bench either, feel sorry for McNeil as he'll need to cover Holgate's arse as he's roasted by Mahrez.

3 at the back with Patts & Zinedine McNeil as wingbacks???

Mick Davies
21 Posted 14/05/2023 at 13:17:22
All my initial optimism drained away as soon as I heard Holgate was in. I just hope he gets his big head down and plays for the team, and not for himself
Steven Telford
22 Posted 14/05/2023 at 13:17:35
Could pay off to be bit physical in this one, get pep worried about his upcoming CL game ;-)
John Hall
23 Posted 14/05/2023 at 13:19:33
Iwobi can play LB and bring in Gray, why not?
Derek Knox
24 Posted 14/05/2023 at 13:20:04
What about Vinagre, is he still with us ? Strange one that if he is, or isn't, another load of wages spunked on a player who has never started, or has he ? Not too confident about Holgate tbh, he tends to give free kicks away in dangerous places, (ie, all over the pitch) surely we have some options (Godfrey ?)
Kevin Naylor
25 Posted 14/05/2023 at 13:20:12
Red card Holgate around 2/1 I reckon
Ernie Baywood
26 Posted 14/05/2023 at 13:23:48
Vinaigrette (I can't even be bother fixing the autocorrect for him) is injured I believe.

I'll echo the Holgate calls. Surely there's another left back somewhere at the club? Who is playing there for the youth sides?

Bill Griffiths
27 Posted 14/05/2023 at 13:25:53
Think he's injured Derek. Sure I read he needs or has undergone surgery.
John Hall
28 Posted 14/05/2023 at 13:25:57
Vinigrette is a very tasty salad in Ukraine :)
John Charles
29 Posted 14/05/2023 at 13:26:40
What is the point of having U23a or U18s if we can’t even find a left back?
Tony Dunn
30 Posted 14/05/2023 at 13:27:10
Isn't Bainsey still on the payroll ? Yes I know , not registered
Si Cooper
31 Posted 14/05/2023 at 13:27:37
So Mason Holgate has the job of keeping Mahrez (most likely) quiet? Makes sense to me in only one way; Mahrez likes to come inside to use his left which will put him attacking Holgate’s strongest foot. The recently revitalised McNeill should be lending him assistance.

Can still envision a red card within 45 minutes though. Just maybe he’s learnt some self-control?

Rest as I would have expected. Very nearly a free hit for the players except an absolute pasting could sow too much doubt for the vital last two games (unlike some I am counting on at least 2 out of Leicester, Leeds and Forest to provide an against all the odds result at some point like we did with Brighton).

If Gray doesn’t get time on pitch today I think Sean Dyche has basically written him off but for one down with 10 minutes to play ‘Hail Mary’ situations.

Today performance is as good as actual result. Don’t expect much except clear signs that we’re as ready as we’ll ever be for the last couple of games.


Ernie Baywood
32 Posted 14/05/2023 at 13:31:16
I see the beeb are still pushing the idea that Haaland is chasing Dixie's goal tally.

He's 25 short with 3 to play. No-one talks about total goals when this invented European league has added loads more games.

Colin Glassar
33 Posted 14/05/2023 at 13:31:42
Holgate to score the winner?
Dale Self
34 Posted 14/05/2023 at 13:34:11
Ok but for us right Colin? ;)
John Hall
35 Posted 14/05/2023 at 13:34:35
Couldn't Reece Welch play LB instead of sitting on the bench? Or do we play Holgate because his wages are higher, like we play Maupay instead of Simms?
Colin Glassar
36 Posted 14/05/2023 at 13:35:47
Errmmm, not sure about that, Dale.
Nick Page
37 Posted 14/05/2023 at 13:35:58
110% concentration today blues and let’s what happens. Holgate will be targeted so let’s hope Dyche has a plan for that. Everton aren’t we.
Derek Knox
38 Posted 14/05/2023 at 13:36:46
John @ 28, are you on the vinegar stroke ? :-)

Vinaigrette is tasty anywhere ? https://www.bbcgoodfood.com/recipes/classic-vinaigrette

No need to get sour about it either ! Hope all is well with you mate in the Philippines, eyes glued today ? Hope the Golf is going well too ! Take care Buddy.

Tom Bowers
39 Posted 14/05/2023 at 13:37:46
Nothing much to expect today all things considered especially as train wreck Holgate is playing.

However sometimes shocks happen at the end of a season with freakish results in some games. Can we hope for one the right way today.

After Chelski and Barcodes really not doing us much of a favour yesterday we dare not hope RS can do one at Leicester.

We really have to hope that the last two games produce dividends unless there is a miracle today.

John Hall
40 Posted 14/05/2023 at 13:39:45
Are you in the Phillipines Derek? Sounds great, but a bit hot and humid for me though. Golf sounds good though :)
Jeff Armstrong
41 Posted 14/05/2023 at 13:42:47
If you’re forced to pick a right footed centre half at LB it should have been Coady.
Joe McMahon
42 Posted 14/05/2023 at 13:43:58
Is Vinegre back at Wolves? Holgate better not get sent off, our shambolic goal difference will even get more of a hit.
John Hall
43 Posted 14/05/2023 at 13:45:13
Could Mina play LB - he's left footed at least and bring in Coady to CB? Too late now, but if Holgate fucks up it's an option.
Andy Walker
44 Posted 14/05/2023 at 13:45:16
Stones, Grealish, De Bruyne, all on the bench.
John Hall
45 Posted 14/05/2023 at 13:46:24
We have onana gray and lonergan to counter them Andy :)
John Hall
46 Posted 14/05/2023 at 13:47:07
Lonegan is a LB, right? ;)
John Wignall
47 Posted 14/05/2023 at 13:48:52
Sad when there's no other option for left back than Holgate
Alan McGuffog
48 Posted 14/05/2023 at 13:49:28
Sadly Ray Wilson passed on a few years back. Even in his eighties I'd prefer him to Holgate
David Hallwood
49 Posted 14/05/2023 at 13:52:30
This time last week I thought we'd get nothing from the Brighton & Citteh games, and have to go all out vs Wolves & Bournemouth so we're 3pts up, get anything from today's game and I'll be estatic
Jerome Shields
50 Posted 14/05/2023 at 13:53:34
Holgate might do ok.Some were concerned Mykolenko would not be strong enough for Mahrez and that wing would be.targeted.Holgate concentration will be with it in this game.
John Hall
51 Posted 14/05/2023 at 13:53:41
Is Paul Power or Andy Hinchcliffe available?
Stefan Busby
52 Posted 14/05/2023 at 13:54:07
Fk me Holgate. This wont end well. Better get the lube out.
Joe McMahon
53 Posted 14/05/2023 at 13:55:54
Look at the 2 benches, the difference is different worlds.
Pete Gunby
54 Posted 14/05/2023 at 13:56:10
Holgate has pace. Keane and Mina couldn’t play out side. Unfortunately, Holgate seems to lack in football intelligence. Hope he proves us all wrong
Alan McGuffog
55 Posted 14/05/2023 at 13:56:27
John..you're confusing him with Lonnie Donegan. Now there was a left back !
Colin Glassar
56 Posted 14/05/2023 at 13:56:49
Get John Bailey back in at LB.
Ray Said
57 Posted 14/05/2023 at 13:58:13
no forum today?
John Hall
58 Posted 14/05/2023 at 13:59:24
That air raid siren - I had to check if it was at Goodison or outside my window! :)
Stefan Busby
59 Posted 14/05/2023 at 13:59:49
Holgate needs to play a blinder today.
Mick Davies
60 Posted 14/05/2023 at 14:01:48
Has there been a change of ref? That wasn't Taylor, looked like Oliver
John Hall
61 Posted 14/05/2023 at 14:04:22
Looks like Taylor to me
Martin Greggor
62 Posted 14/05/2023 at 14:04:51
Anyone got a stream? My usual go-tos arent working
Mick Davies
63 Posted 14/05/2023 at 14:05:54
SSN must have played an earlier clip of the players entering the pitch. Nothing said on Merseyside. Hate Taylor
John Hall
64 Posted 14/05/2023 at 14:06:55
John Hall
65 Posted 14/05/2023 at 14:09:38
Holgate is toast against Mahrez!
Ernie Baywood
66 Posted 14/05/2023 at 14:09:43
On the evidence of the first 6 minutes I don't know whether to wish Holgate is sent off before he gives a goal away
Martin Greggor
67 Posted 14/05/2023 at 14:14:35
Thanks John -64
Mick Davies
68 Posted 14/05/2023 at 14:16:12
I'd sooner see Simms at LB than Horrorgate
John Hall
69 Posted 14/05/2023 at 14:18:30
Hi Derek that is not me posting. I am watching the game but haven't made any posts. Must be another John Hall.
John Hall
70 Posted 14/05/2023 at 14:20:43
Hi John - yes I'm John Hall in Ukraine. Sorry to confuse you both
John Hall
71 Posted 14/05/2023 at 14:23:21
Operation goodison exercise?
John Hall
72 Posted 14/05/2023 at 14:28:55
Phew! Operation goodison exercise all clear! :)
Joseph Terrence
73 Posted 14/05/2023 at 14:37:15
Garner is fantastic. Lovely player to watch.
Dan Parker
74 Posted 14/05/2023 at 14:39:48
Real shame the goal, the lads had been playing fantastically well and haven’t done much wrong
Dan Parker
75 Posted 14/05/2023 at 14:40:27
Game over. Nail biting couple of weeks to come.
Matt Butlin
76 Posted 14/05/2023 at 14:40:34
Fallen apart in 2 mins.
John Hall
77 Posted 14/05/2023 at 14:40:38
Oh dear!!
Andrew Merrick
78 Posted 14/05/2023 at 14:42:45
Minus 23 gd
Ray Said
79 Posted 14/05/2023 at 14:44:04
Neither CB picking up Harland-thats their only job
Graham Haines
80 Posted 14/05/2023 at 14:45:50
just need to protect GD now, trying to find positives - we have only lost a point to those around us in this round of games. This was always going to last 2 games.
Mark Ryan
81 Posted 14/05/2023 at 14:47:02
Just cannot see how Holgate gets selected. A dog shit of a player. Poor technically, cannot tackle, ball watches, poor attitude. I'd sooner see my gran at left back and she's been gone 20 years. Play Holgate and your playing with 10 men, absolute ball bag.
The team other than him have been great, great shame
Rob Hooton
82 Posted 14/05/2023 at 14:49:09
We were doing really well until the goals, was a real touch of class from Gundogan (unfortunately)
Joe McMahon
83 Posted 14/05/2023 at 14:49:26
Things not looking good and Leeds have West Ham who are thinking about Europe and a pathetic Spurs on the last game of the season (even with Kanes endless penalties). Getting Big Sam for 4 games was shrewd.
Jerome Shields
84 Posted 14/05/2023 at 14:51:13
Defending at the heart of the defence not good.Noone to attack the ball.Had this game written as a waste of time.But didn't expect Man City to be given so much space to run into on the left wing.Big Sam would have had that blocked off.Think I will head to the sauna to save my Sunday.Good Luck Everton second half.
Ernie Baywood
85 Posted 14/05/2023 at 14:52:56
A bit of quality and then a decent second. Not sure how we spend the whole time winding up Haaland and then leave him alone when it actually matters.

Doesn't quite feel over yet but we could do with something lucky falling our way in front of goal. Ideally it doesn't fall again to Holgate who has looked, to be very fair to him, shite.

Craig Walker
86 Posted 14/05/2023 at 14:53:58
Good for 37 mins. Iwobi and Holgate not great but Garner, McNeill, DCL and Doucoure were doing well. Keep in it. Keep GD down. Nick one like Leeds did and see if we can make them edgy.

I know I keep saying it but Wolves away is a very difficult game. I think Leeds will beat Spurs and West Ham are wobbling where we need them to win matches.

Can’t take much more of sitting through our games and all our rivals’.

Jim Bennings
87 Posted 14/05/2023 at 14:57:49
Even regardless of today's result or for that matter the Brighton win on Monday night, it was always on those last two games of the season.

We really need that win at Wolves to prevent an extremely nervous final game against Bournemouth who I believe will pose a bigger threat than many imagine.

Our home form has been very poor all season and nerves could play a big factor.

Leeds have West Ham and a hapless Spurs side.

I'm pretty certain now that it will go down to the dreaded final match.

John Wignall
88 Posted 14/05/2023 at 14:59:20
Could be a cricket score hope City ease off with real.madrid in mind
Ray Said
89 Posted 14/05/2023 at 15:01:15
Their giant, world renowned 6ft5 centre forward was unnoticed in the box. Our 6ft 5 inch centre back was scratching his arse 10 yards away.
Alan J Thompson
90 Posted 14/05/2023 at 15:02:07
I cringed when I saw Holgate's name on the team sheet and in the first 5 minutes he's made three bad errors. Iwobi was also slow to read and was forever chasing his man or would make a pass and then stand watching rather than move for a return.

While the City player did well for their first goal too many players were standing watching and Mina should have done better than his tame non-effort.

The second goal, again, Iwobi was behind his man that made the cross and Holgate was stood behind Haaland, what did he expect that he was going to let it go! And Tarkowsi, a central defender, had again taken up his favourite position of standing almost on our goal line instead of challenging their centre forward for the cross.

I'd like to comment on our attack but we've hardly had one and our best chance unfortunately fell to Holgate who again looked fast asleep, certainly with no idea what to do when the ball came through to him.

Too many errors and not enough urgency.

Oh, and this Ref lets a push on Garner in our box go but seconds later when Calvert-Lewin puts his hand up to stop the City player from running into him he gives a free kick and Mahrez, I think, hit a back pass from about 25 yards to his keeper who picks it up when it couldn't have been anything but a back pass but nothing given.

But we haven't been putting enough effort or thought into it.

Kevin Molloy
91 Posted 14/05/2023 at 15:02:08
our best hope now is staying ahead of Forest, not Leeds. I think we don't get anything from Wolves, but then we hopefully beat Bournemouth. I can't see Forest getting more than one point, but if they do I think we're stuffed.

I've written off 'leeds, I think they will definitely beat Spurs, and will also get the win against the hammers. it's just like last year when everyone said 'Brentford will beat Leeds at home' but they were on the beach.

Christine Foster
92 Posted 14/05/2023 at 15:03:56
Well to be honest, how many of us really believed the best tactics against City are to surrender possession and pack the final third. The big flaw in that is Holgate, sadly out of position and clearly not playing well.
Change of tactics required for second half, cannot give them the run of the pitch, higher faster, fighting press required now. Gray and Onana on for Holgate and Gana..
Andrew Brookfield
93 Posted 14/05/2023 at 15:04:58
Wrapping DCL in cotton wool for the next two must win games
Ernie Baywood
94 Posted 14/05/2023 at 15:05:18
Maupay on. Ok I might go to bed.

Hopefully just being cautious with Dom.

Mick Davies
95 Posted 14/05/2023 at 15:06:27
Maupay??? joke
Mick Davies
96 Posted 14/05/2023 at 15:06:27
Maupay??? joke
John Wignall
97 Posted 14/05/2023 at 15:06:49
Maupay on for Calvin Lewis hope it's nothing serious
Christine Foster
98 Posted 14/05/2023 at 15:06:59
Iain Johnston
99 Posted 14/05/2023 at 15:07:31
It's about Wolves & Bournemouth now, this game is gone. I'd get McNeil & Garner off too.
Rob Hooton
100 Posted 14/05/2023 at 15:08:16
Maupay hat trick to seal the win?

Hope DCL is not injured.

Kevin Naylor
101 Posted 14/05/2023 at 15:08:20
Maupay and Holgate on the pitch together, mother of all white flags.
Robert Tressell
102 Posted 14/05/2023 at 15:08:32
I thought we were excellent until their goal
Robert Tressell
103 Posted 14/05/2023 at 15:08:32
I thought we were excellent until their goal
Paul Kossoff
104 Posted 14/05/2023 at 15:09:14
Mr Mopay for DLC, yes we are saved now.
Kevin Molloy
105 Posted 14/05/2023 at 15:09:48
get Mina off too.
Mick Davies
106 Posted 14/05/2023 at 15:12:02
Someone posted that Holgate playing is like having 10 men - wrong, it's like having 10 against 12
Andrew Merrick
107 Posted 14/05/2023 at 15:12:14
Minus 24 gd
Kevin Naylor
108 Posted 14/05/2023 at 15:13:09
1 more and we are in the bottom 3
Paul Kossoff
109 Posted 14/05/2023 at 15:13:48
Game over three nil
Kevin Naylor
110 Posted 14/05/2023 at 15:14:11
Sorry my mistake we arent
Kenny Smith
111 Posted 14/05/2023 at 15:15:46
Mason Holgate is absolutely dreadful. Probably our worst player and that’s saying something
Paul Kossoff
112 Posted 14/05/2023 at 15:16:24
Kevin we are on 32, Leeds are on 31, we are not in the bottom three.
Craig Walker
113 Posted 14/05/2023 at 15:16:42
Another goal and our GD is same as Leeds’. Why couldn’t City stuff Leeds last week?
Kevin Naylor
114 Posted 14/05/2023 at 15:16:42
Dyche wont change anything now, just hope City back off.
Kevin Naylor
115 Posted 14/05/2023 at 15:17:03
Paul just stated it was a mistake
John Wignall
116 Posted 14/05/2023 at 15:19:01
Holgate off.thank god should never have started
Joe McMahon
117 Posted 14/05/2023 at 15:20:29
We need to win our last 2 games end of, if we don't Leesd and Forrest will survive. No way on earth are Leeds taking less than 6 points v WHU and Spurs.
Paul Kossoff
118 Posted 14/05/2023 at 15:20:52
Everton make some more changes. Conor Coady and Amadou Onana replace Mason Holgate and Idrissa Gueye.
Ian Riley
119 Posted 14/05/2023 at 15:20:55
Take Calvert lewin off! Protect him! Bigger games ahead!
Kevin Naylor
120 Posted 14/05/2023 at 15:23:23
Ian Maupay is on for him, if he's injured we are seriously fucked.
Mark Ryan
121 Posted 14/05/2023 at 15:24:00
Saving Holgate for our last 2 games, excellent news.
Iain Johnston
122 Posted 14/05/2023 at 15:24:14
Fuck me, if Maupay was any quicker he'd be slow.
Ian Riley
123 Posted 14/05/2023 at 15:25:42
Cheers Kevin

Just noticed! Behind the sofa!

Paul Kossoff
124 Posted 14/05/2023 at 15:26:06
Everton have actually had more possession than City in the second half - 55.1% - but the champions look comfortable.
Ernie Baywood
125 Posted 14/05/2023 at 15:26:08
I'd be inclined to take Maupay off again. What are we crossing to or playing in to?
Pete Gunby
126 Posted 14/05/2023 at 15:26:10
Still in our hands……barely
Dan Parker
127 Posted 14/05/2023 at 15:26:43
Garner and Patterson are encouraging for the future, shame we lost for large parts of the season. DCL vital too.
Kevin Naylor
128 Posted 14/05/2023 at 15:27:06
West Ham got a goal back at least they are having a go.
Paul Kossoff
129 Posted 14/05/2023 at 15:27:22
Going into this game they were four goals ahead of Leeds, the next team behind them, [on goal difference] and three of those have already gone. They need to make sure they keep chipping away towards the end of this game.
Paul Kossoff
130 Posted 14/05/2023 at 15:27:22
Going into this game they were four goals ahead of Leeds, the next team behind them, [on goal difference] and three of those have already gone. They need to make sure they keep chipping away towards the end of this game.
Ray Said
131 Posted 14/05/2023 at 15:27:38
Simms ahead of Maupay every time for me-give the lad some opportunity to learn and develop. Maupay has shown he is not up to this level and isn't going to improve
Kevin Naylor
132 Posted 14/05/2023 at 15:29:12
West Hams goal VAR'd off for handball.
Paul Kossoff
133 Posted 14/05/2023 at 15:30:41
Everton's best chance of the game by far as James Tarkowski powers a header off the crossbar from a corner. Ederson must have got a touch.

From the following corner Yerry Mina heads over from close range.

Paul Kossoff
134 Posted 14/05/2023 at 15:36:30
Mopay barged over by some carthorse and gets penalized for falling on the ball. Unbelievable.
Ernie Baywood
135 Posted 14/05/2023 at 15:37:15
Garner straight down the tunnel now too.
Phil Gardner
136 Posted 14/05/2023 at 15:37:36
Paul Kossoff…is there any particular reason that you’re quoting BBC Sport (Live reporting) on here?
Paul Kossoff
137 Posted 14/05/2023 at 15:38:23
Everton bring on Demarai Gray for James Garner.
Mike Morgan
138 Posted 14/05/2023 at 15:39:20
Pixkford, idiot. So lucky that the Brighton game and this one where Pickford has thumped 2 forwards in the box. So easily could have been pens and red cards !
Paul Kossoff
139 Posted 14/05/2023 at 15:42:03
I was waiting for someone to fkg complain. I'm doing it Incase someone actually appreciates it because they don't know what the FK is going on, is that ok by you, sorry for spoiling your Sunday. Always one isn't their.
Tom Bowers
140 Posted 14/05/2023 at 15:43:36
Maupay is a pretend footballer. Everton really got conned by Brighton with that deal. He will do better in the Championship and not with Everton we hope.

Predictable result today and the typical let down after a good result previously.

Thought at least the defending would be a lot better.

Paul Kossoff
141 Posted 14/05/2023 at 15:43:53
Just For The complainer. NEW
Posted at 15:4015:40
Post update
Everton 0-3 Man City

Just over 10 minutes to go. Total cruise control for City.

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Phil Gardner
142 Posted 14/05/2023 at 15:45:21
Straightforward question, Paul. Wind your neck in eh? No need for that tone 0-3 or otherwise.
Kevin Naylor
143 Posted 14/05/2023 at 15:45:22
Got to keep this to 3-0 or even try and nick one.
Dan Parker
144 Posted 14/05/2023 at 15:46:22
Strange one this, under so much pressure and it’s such an important game but the lads have kept going. There’s been so many games where we’ve thrown the towel in with some shocking performances, this hasn’t been one of them
Ray Said
145 Posted 14/05/2023 at 15:46:49
Maupay-cant run, cant shoot, cant head, cant dribble so does he even qualify to be called a striker?
Joe McMahon
146 Posted 14/05/2023 at 15:46:49
Simms prob thinking he'd rather still be at Sunderland, they had 46k attendance yesterday, he's scores for Everton v Chelsea then is benched.
Paul Kossoff
147 Posted 14/05/2023 at 15:48:34
City bring on a world cup winner Julian Alvarez, and here we have fkg Mopay.
Ernie Baywood
148 Posted 14/05/2023 at 15:49:00
Ray, it's not just that he can't do those things. He's not even bothering to try.

There's no possible way we can even get the ball to him. He's just phoning it in.

Kevin Naylor
149 Posted 14/05/2023 at 15:49:03
One goal either way could be crucial so why the fuck is Maupay on instead of Simms. Dyche dooes my head in sometimes.
Ray Said
150 Posted 14/05/2023 at 15:50:01
Ernie-spot on. Hardly trying
Ray Said
151 Posted 14/05/2023 at 15:51:47
Most of us understand our lads are not the equal of theirs but we should match them for running and effort at the least
Mike Price
152 Posted 14/05/2023 at 15:52:38
We’d have taken 2 points from the Brighton and City games beforehand.
No more margin of error but I’d have bit your hand off to take it to our last game not too long ago.
Christine Foster
153 Posted 14/05/2023 at 15:55:20
Tactics wrong today, against a team of good players we are incapable of defending for a game. We should have gone at them from the off. We have gone through the motions today, Noone played well and a damaging defeat both for goal difference and morale. One hopes DCL is ok, if not this is going to be a real battle.
Neil Lawson
154 Posted 14/05/2023 at 15:56:48
One of worst consequences is that we now all have to support the Redshite tomorrow.
Dan Parker
155 Posted 14/05/2023 at 15:57:20
I don’t see it like that Christine, we did go at them especially in the first half, there’s just a huge gulf in class. They didn’t cave in like they have in prior games.
Paul Kossoff
156 Posted 14/05/2023 at 15:57:27
City have a state of the art back engineered set up, and here we are, with our red alert bulb.
Mick Davies
157 Posted 14/05/2023 at 15:59:17
Mick Davies
158 Posted 14/05/2023 at 15:59:17
If Holgate ever plays for us again, it shows how little the people at the club know about football, and will lose all credibility
Craig Walker
159 Posted 14/05/2023 at 15:59:33
I think we did alright, Christine. Attack City and they pick you off.

Today hasn’t cost us. It’s home games against Southampton, Wolves and Leicester and a damaging defeat against Fulham that is why we are where we are. Some decent performances today.

City are leagues ahead of us. Look at their bench.

Hope DCL is okay.

Joe McMahon
160 Posted 14/05/2023 at 16:01:11
I'm seriously worried now. Everton have won 1 in the last 10 games, and it looks like we now need to win the last 2. Forrest are fighting more as they do have strikers, Leeds/Big Sam will take 6 points from West Ham & Leeds.
Denis Richardson
161 Posted 14/05/2023 at 16:01:14
Does Vinegre only have one leg? How bad can the guy be when we’ve been using CBs and RBs to play at LB when Myko is out?

Anyway, only upside this weekend is that neither Leeds nor Forest won. Fingers crossed Leicester don’t spring a surprise tomorrow. Write this game off, we expected to lose in any case, just a shame we let in 3.

Need to pick ourselves up and get something from the Wolves game. Almost guaranteed at least one of Leeds or Leicester will win their last game so really need to avoid squeaky bum time last day of the season. Don’t think our players have the head for a sort of game like that.

Ernie Baywood
162 Posted 14/05/2023 at 16:02:25
Obviously too comfortable for our liking. I've never watched a more pointless second half. Result sorted and both teams with far bigger fish to try.

But it's done now. Wolves away... a win probably does it for us.

John Charles
163 Posted 14/05/2023 at 16:02:51
Having a pint in the ground
Initial reaction we played ok.
Patterson, Garner, McNeill good
Pickford awful
Gray and Maupay worse than awful
Holgate… saying nowt
Not cost us anything today
Alan J Thompson
164 Posted 14/05/2023 at 16:04:27
Maupay, Maupay!!! What has Dyche been watching? He must be the world's best trainer as he's never done anything during a game for us, indeed City didn't even bother marking him at any time during the half but then after their training ground against the lamposts third they stopped trying altogether. I just can't think what sort of game plan we were going to use with Maupay up front and I suppose Simms will want away if he can't get on before Maupay. The only good thing that might come from it is that Calvert-Lewin was rested rather than injured or we will indeed have lost the paddle.

An absolute shambles!

Paul Kossoff
165 Posted 14/05/2023 at 16:04:50
What's the betting that the red shite in all their evilness let Leicester win tomorrow night. Klop says, Oh I don't understand my team, we didn't turn up, but I take full responsibility. Tutonic twat.
Ernie Baywood
166 Posted 14/05/2023 at 16:06:33
Mick, I feel like we've said that quite a few times now.

The club really is as dysfunctional as it seems. An alarm should go off every time a manager tries to punch his shirt number into the selection screen.

But it doesn't. I actually felt sorry for him today. He's just nowhere near good enough and managers keep picking him. He needs to be put out of his misery. I'm not even sure what level he could play at.

Paul Kossoff
167 Posted 14/05/2023 at 16:07:04
Here is another record to be proud of.Everton have lost 10 home matches in a single league campaign for the first time. They lost nine in 1912-13, 1947-48, 1950-51, 1993-94 and 2020-21. Everton, the gift that keeps giving. And yes, I am pissed off with the lot of them.
John Charles
168 Posted 14/05/2023 at 16:07:25
Leeds won’t get another point
Forest won’t get another point
1 win
Colin Glassar
169 Posted 14/05/2023 at 16:07:55
Not many of us expected us to get anything from the Man City and Brighton games so 3 out six isn’t too bad. Just get a result against Wolves and Bournemouth.

Was that police display at the end to safeguard the cowardly board?

Andy Crooks
170 Posted 14/05/2023 at 16:09:55
One of the worst teams in the Premier League lose 3-0 to possibly the best team in the world. Back to the matches we have a chance to win.
Ian Jones
171 Posted 14/05/2023 at 16:10:56
Paul, Klopp is after a Champions league place. He's not at all worried about Everton
John Charles
172 Posted 14/05/2023 at 16:11:22
Arriving at the ground early you couldn’t get in to the park end without showing ticket and going straight in to the ground. Steward told us players didn’t want supporters milling around!!
And the the police/steward cordon at the end WTF
Allen Rodgers
173 Posted 14/05/2023 at 16:12:06
10 home games lost in a season for the first time. 10 goals shipped in the last 3 home games. What a God awful season.
Ian Jones
174 Posted 14/05/2023 at 16:13:15
Denis, Vinegre is injured, so bit difficult to include him
John Charles
175 Posted 14/05/2023 at 16:13:51
Did it say on telly if DCL was injured or rested?
Kevin Molloy
176 Posted 14/05/2023 at 16:14:59
We've put down a marker there, and no mistake.
Ian Edwards
177 Posted 14/05/2023 at 16:16:20
John 175. Injured unfortunately. His groin felt tight
Denis Richardson
178 Posted 14/05/2023 at 16:16:29
Paul, I’m confident Leics will lose tomorrow as the CL places are up for grabs and wide open. My nervousness is more towards Allardyce and Moyes. Cheeky call from Allardyce to Moyes offering to split his £3m stay up bonus wouldn’t surprise me in the slightest.

West Ham safe and have nothing to play for. They’re also away to Leicester last game so can see them losing their last two. In fact I can’t imagine neither Leeds nor Leicester not winning at least one game so all eyes now on Wolves. Leeds could get 6 points, think Leicester will manage only 3-4 at most so Leeds our main threat. Forest have Arsenal next so by no means safe either.

Really hope DCL was rested although fearing the worst given it was odd to take him off at HT.

Christy Ring
179 Posted 14/05/2023 at 16:16:51
Great to get 3pts from Brighton, expected nothing today, I’m just hoping DCL was taken off to keep him fresh for the Wolves game.
Michael Boardman
180 Posted 14/05/2023 at 16:17:30
And this, Mr Thelwell, is on you - Maupay?

Care to discuss?

Ian Edwards
181 Posted 14/05/2023 at 16:18:06
John 168. I wish I shared your optimism. Leeds will get at least a draw at West Ham and Spurs will lose at Elland Road baying for 3 points.
Robert Tressell
182 Posted 14/05/2023 at 16:18:55
We needed the first goal to get anything out of it today. Came close too but quality counts.

What I saw in the first half hour was a well organised team asking a lot of questions of City. Weaker opposition would have struggled.

If Dyche can just keep us up, we have a side and a style of play emerging.

Just need the RS to beat Leicester now.

Pete Clarke
183 Posted 14/05/2023 at 16:19:29
Thank fuck Brighton we’re so arrogant with their approach to our last game and helped us with goal difference. Oh, and Pickford having a blinder too.!
Mina does my head in with his stupid antics and is always borderline being sent off, carried off or giving away a pen. Can’t wait to see the back of him.
City just simply too good. An exercise in how to control and pass a ball as well as intelligence in movement off the ball. Doucouré should be happy he’s even on the same pitch as some of the City players never mind haggling for new deals. It’s actually criminal that Maupay is on a football pitch.
All in I think we have to be thankful that we’re in a better position than any of the other teams given where we were a month ago. I include Forest in that because I don’t think they will take another point and if we can’t get at least 3 points from the next two games then we simply deserve to go down.
Joe McMahon
184 Posted 14/05/2023 at 16:19:54
Alan@173, at this point i'd be a lot happier if we could swap managers with Leeds, that's how desperate it is.
Anthony Murphy
185 Posted 14/05/2023 at 16:21:21
I’m surprised that we seem a little complacent as a fanbase with the run in.
Ray Jacques
186 Posted 14/05/2023 at 16:22:14
Christine usually like your posts but can't agree with you today. How can we go after City from the off? The players aren't capable of doing that plus we couldn't get the ball off them. The gulf in class was embarrassing, I don't think City got out of 2nd gear, they have wonderful players, we have dross.
The season won't be defined by today's result. If we go down its totally on the clowns in the boardroom who didn't buy a forward last year and then didn't react after the Bournemouth fiasco when we then had a 6 week break followed by a 4 week transfer window. Absolutely scandalous.
Think we need 4 points to stay up, if we don't get them and go down then it's deserved over the season.
How very Everton it would be to be relegated beneath Allardyces Leeds, the very guy who got us up the league a few years ago but was hounded out as not good enough!
Colin Glassar
187 Posted 14/05/2023 at 16:24:48
Ian, Harry Kane will want to go out on a high. We were outclassed today by the best team in the world. As long as the lads heads haven’t dropped we are more than still in this.
Ed Prytherch
188 Posted 14/05/2023 at 16:26:13
Three brilliant goals from City that they would have scored against any other team. No bad performances from the Everton starting 11. Holgate drew the short straw with Mykolenko, Vinagre and Godfrey all injured and while he made a few mistakes he was not at fault for any of the goals. Let's hope that Mykolenko is back against Wolves.
I don't understand how Maupay is ahead of Simms in the pecking order but again, it hardly made any difference to the result.
I feel confident that we will pick up the necessary points in the next two games. The Everton players certainly look to be up for the fight.
Kunal Desai
189 Posted 14/05/2023 at 16:26:56
It's in our hands, 4 points from the next two will see us through.

Get the two big cup finals out of the way and the points in the bag and then focus can begin on homing in on the removal of the board.

They have got to go this summer!

Billy Shears
190 Posted 14/05/2023 at 16:27:06
A bridge too far today,but am confident that our next two games will prove fruitful for us.
Gary Brown
191 Posted 14/05/2023 at 16:28:23
I’ve seen some low IQ comments on here, but thinking any of our fans are complacent is up there at the top. We know we are in shit. Trying to still want it is not complacency, it’s simple hope. Without hope, why bother even supporting a club.
Sean Roe
192 Posted 14/05/2023 at 16:29:01
We've been beaten by arguably the best team in world football. Their second eleven would probably get a euro spot in this league. We are still in the same position we were in before the game if the red shite beat Leicester.

I'm more concerned at how bad West Ham are considering they still have to play both Leeds and Leicester. We need six points from the next two games in my opinion.

Kevin Naylor
193 Posted 14/05/2023 at 16:31:21
6 or even 4 will be enough but 3 or less and we will be hovering over the trapdoor.
Steve Hogan
194 Posted 14/05/2023 at 16:36:28
John Charles (163) We all see the game differently I accept, but in what way was Pickford 'awful' today? Genuinely puzzled by that remark. Do you think he was at fault for any of the three goals? It's normally the opposition fans and media, who have an agenda against him.
Raymond Fox
195 Posted 14/05/2023 at 16:36:30
Pretty much what we deep down expected today, its anybodys guess who stays up and who goes down.

If the betting means anything the odds compilers fancy Leeds, Leicester and Forest more likely to go down than us.

Mal van Schaick
196 Posted 14/05/2023 at 16:38:13
I agree @153, Christine. For the life of me, I cannot understand what the tactical plan was today to get anything from this game?

Okay, they are miles better than us, but rather than play Holgate left-back, I would have asked McNeil to fill in there just for this game and played Gray on the right and Iwobi on the left.

One thing that the game did show us, is that we are way off being as good as the top four teams in this league. If we do survive, with our current financial plight, how on earth are we ever going to have players good enough to get us into the top half of the table, never mind the top four???

Dale Self
197 Posted 14/05/2023 at 16:39:14
It is not surprising or even informative that some who gave no chance of points v Brighton or City are now less confident than before. After getting three points there I suppose just seeing Holgate gave them a football version of PTSD. If you didn’t think we would get a point from City there is no reason to feel differently from after the Brighton win.
Kevin Naylor
198 Posted 14/05/2023 at 16:40:47
Current Betfair relegation odds

Leicester 1.36 (4/11)
Leeds 1.42 (2/5)
Forest 3,35 (12/5)
Everton 3.5 (5/2)
West Ham 109/1

Iain Johnston
199 Posted 14/05/2023 at 16:43:04
Today has gone to script for me. West Ham will now be up for the Leeds game as I hoped and we'll secure our place against Wolves and Bournemouth.

We weren't poor today, just beaten by arguably the current best club side in the world.

I see us finishing 16th with Leeds & Leicester joining Southampton.

Anthony Murphy
200 Posted 14/05/2023 at 16:44:10
Gary Brown. Your response to my comment suggests to me you don't know what the word 'complacent' means so wind your neck in. Being complacent has nothing to do with having hope or otherwise, you clown.
George Cumiskey
201 Posted 14/05/2023 at 16:44:38
It was a massive mistake playing Holgate, doomed from the start.
Barry Rathbone
202 Posted 14/05/2023 at 16:50:49
The City result was a foregone conclusion the real work ensuring we achieve 4th from bottom starts now.

Has this crew got the ability?

Have they the heart?

Are they massively keen on wearing women's clothes?

It matters not a jot I'm having sausage, peas and chips - what a time to be alive.

Dale Self
203 Posted 14/05/2023 at 16:51:50
Anthony that is the angriest agreement with someone I’ve seen expressed here Sorry to but in Gary but that is quite remarkable and caused me to type.
Oliver Molloy
204 Posted 14/05/2023 at 16:53:07
Iain @ 199

What makes you so confident West Ham will be up for the Leeds game?

Colin Glassar
205 Posted 14/05/2023 at 16:53:21
I thought Onana looked good when he came on even though Garner and Gueye were holding the line against wave after wave of attacks.

If we have a fit squad for the next game, ie Calvert-Lewin and Mykolenko, then I think we'll be okay. Forget this one and move on.

Jeff Armstrong
206 Posted 14/05/2023 at 16:58:03
We desperately need Mykolenko and Calvert-Lewinto be fit for the Wolves game. Coady, who should have played today instead of Holgate, cannot play cos of loan rules.

If we start with a makeshift left-back and Maupay up top, we will need massive performances from 1 to 11 to get a point or 3 at Wolves.

We need Arsenal to win today to keep them interested against Forest too.

Derek Knox
207 Posted 14/05/2023 at 17:11:19
While I can accept we were beaten by a much better side today after holding out for 30 minutes or so, but what I can't accept is the inclusion of Holgate from the start, surely we could accommodate ant player with maybe Tarkowski playing at left back and Coady alongside Mina. To add copious amounts of salt into a gaping wound, he subs Calvert Lewin (if precaution fair enough) but not for Maupay whilst Simms is left on the bench. Is it because of Maupay's scoring Stats = 1 in 40 (almost) ?

Simms must be pissed off, and probably want to leave in the Summer, how is he supposed to gain Premiership experience, getting splinters in his arse, while that non-scoring midget is ambling around doing fuck all ?

Brendan McLaughlin
208 Posted 14/05/2023 at 17:12:15
Iain #199,

According to the BBC West Ham made 7 changes for the game against Brentford today because of their European involvement and they are also very unlikely to be relegated. Difficult to see West Ham strongly motivated against Leeds.

Danny Baily
209 Posted 14/05/2023 at 17:13:12
We preserved our superior goal difference to Leeds. That's a real positive for a rubbish weekend.

Dyche has come out and said Calvert-Lewin had a tight groin. Doesn't sound good.

Joe McMahon
210 Posted 14/05/2023 at 17:15:20
Derek@207, absolutely. Just like when our tactical genius manager selected Maupay to play against Fulhams huge centre backs, over the much taller Simms.
Ian Edwards
211 Posted 14/05/2023 at 17:20:01
I know most won't agree but Maupay is imo a better player than Simms. Simms is slow and immobile.
Oliver Molloy
212 Posted 14/05/2023 at 17:21:19
@ 208,
I agree no matter how it goes for them in Holland - its the three day turn around that also worries me, and of course if they win in Holland and get to the final - that match will be three days after they play Leicester away - certainly will be saving them selves for the final in my opinion.
Steven Telford
213 Posted 14/05/2023 at 17:21:53
Preserved our goal difference as compared to Leeds… eroded it more like.
Kevin Naylor
214 Posted 14/05/2023 at 17:22:31
Does anyone ever ask Dyche in the press conferences why he keeps picking a non-scoring goalscorer (Maupay) or as I presume he gets an easy ride.
Dave Lynch
215 Posted 14/05/2023 at 17:27:03
If we'd've gone after them, it would've been tantamount to footballing suicide.

As others have alluded to, they are light years ahead of us with regards to ability and tactical nous. The pisser is, they play it simple and move into space to receive the ball and... repeat.

That's down to coaching by a forward-thinking manager.

Gary Brown
216 Posted 14/05/2023 at 17:29:53
Congratulations, Anthony, your little titty-lipped tantrum just made you look even dumber than your original “our fans are complacent” bollocks.

The fact you can't understand the difference and similarities between the two states of mind is entirely your problem, little man.

Stuart Sharp
217 Posted 14/05/2023 at 17:31:49
Ian, I assume you're just trying to wind people up. Even Maupay's mum would disagree.

Besides, Simms is closer to a like-for-like replacement, and would suit the way we play better. Maupay's goal return this season is an embarrassment. Simms has also scored one, but in a fraction of the game time.

Andy Crooks
218 Posted 14/05/2023 at 17:34:41

I would have the reserve goalkeeper at left-back ahead of Holgate. If only... if only he was one hundredth of the player he thinks he is.

Ian @ 211, you are comparing two players who have, for some reason, hit the football jackpot. Both are really a long way short of average, but Simms has a bit of scope. He is like a newcomer in a 3-year-old maiden. Better by virtue of not having had enough time to achieve the mediocrity that Maupay displays.

However, I have a feeling, God knows why, that Maupay is going to play a part in our survival story.

Andy Crooks
219 Posted 14/05/2023 at 17:38:24
Barry @ 202, you fool no one with your selection of peas over beans as a back up to your sausage and chips.
Peter Mills
220 Posted 14/05/2023 at 17:40:06
We played okay for the first 35 minutes, occasionally breaking well and causing Man City to have to concentrate defensively.

The game changed on Holgate's miss – I haven't seen any replays of it, but it appeared to be a great opportunity that should have been put away. After that, it was two quick, excellent goals and game over. The second half was damage-limitation.

Well done to those supporters who stayed to the end and gave the players a good reception. The sight of the huge security presence around the tunnel at the end was pathetic, presumably a further statement of how “threatened” those in charge are by such a dangerous set of fans.

Tony Everan
221 Posted 14/05/2023 at 17:41:41
The writing was on the wall with Holgate selected at left-back. A back three would have been a better bet omitting Holgate, but City are overflowing with top-quality players and it's still hard to see us getting anything. So I don't think we should be too negative after today.

The experiment won't happen again, but we desperately need Mykolenko back for the last two matches. Pray to the football gods that Calvert-Lewin's niggle is better in a day or two. If so, we stand a decent chance of getting the four points we will likely need.

Ray Roche
223 Posted 14/05/2023 at 17:52:21
To keep things in perspective, City have won their last ten League games including thrashing Liverpool and Arsenal, scoring four against each, and shoving two up Newcastle. FA Cup finalists and facing Real this week for a place in the Champions League Final. To hear Some people on here you'd think we've just been battered by Rochdale, not Europe's best side.

We played well and looked fairly comfortable up until they scored two in two minutes that pissed on our chips good style. We expected nothing and that's what we got.

John Keating
224 Posted 14/05/2023 at 17:54:19
I watched Man Utd v Wolves on beIN Sports. Wolves were definitely not on holiday!

I know many have been predicting a win or draw at Wolves but it will take a massive effort and complete team display with a fit Calvert-Lewin.

I'm still not sure if anything other than a win at Wolves will do us.

Gary Brown
225 Posted 14/05/2023 at 17:55:18
The other angle of BHA Vs Arsenal is all the pressure is off them once title gone. If they relax last two games we may see them get back to winning ways.

Ultimately though, assuming the dark side turn up tomorrow (they worry me more), it's in our hands: get 4-6 points from last two and we should be good.

Iain Johnston
226 Posted 14/05/2023 at 17:55:43
Oliver @204, Leeds can still catch them mathematically, hopefully being at home next week will kill that argument.

I'm quietly confident we'll beat Wolves, the got to 40 pts and have now gone into hibernation.

Colin Glassar
227 Posted 14/05/2023 at 17:59:07
The Positives: We kept our shape and heads didn't drop. After the third goal I thought we'd collapse like we did against Newcastle and Fulham.

The Negatives: The final score, Calvert-Lewin's withdrawal, Holgate at left-back, and the zero contribution of Gray and Maupay when they came on.

Overall, I think we weren't great but neither were we really crap.

Ian Edwards
228 Posted 14/05/2023 at 18:00:08
Stuart 217. Maupay is more mobile and presses better.

Simms was shocking at Man Utd and Liverpool. No performance from Maupay was worse than those two.

Simms's goal gained a point at Chelsea. Maupay's earned all 3 v West Ham.

They are both really average but Maupay clearly the better one.

Ian Bennett
229 Posted 14/05/2023 at 18:00:31
Well if Holgate scores it might have been different, but it was mission impossible.

3-0 down and their subs are Grealish, Stones, Silva and Debryne warming up. In response we have Maupay.

If you take out the covid season, City have only lost 4 games in the last 6 seasons during the season run-ins. They're just a machine that no one can stop.

Paul Tran
230 Posted 14/05/2023 at 18:00:40
Peter, it looked to me like Holgate was wrong-footed and couldn't get the right shape to get it on target.
Barry Rathbone
231 Posted 14/05/2023 at 18:03:09
Andy 219

It was a tough call, the missus said "peas or beans?" and I just went for the peas like some kind of big I am.

Far too cavalier for my own good these days.

Alex Gray
232 Posted 14/05/2023 at 18:03:12
The big factor in all of this is that we have ONE left back in the squad and he's garbage! Holgate/Goddfrey at left back in unacceptable. Almost as unacceptable as Maupay being our second striker. City have three squads all with more quality than us. Reality is if Dom is injured we're down. All the stats say the same.

If dyche had changed to three at the back he would've been crucified for changing a winning formation and reality is City still would've won because they just don't drop points at this partt of the season.

Overall the performance wasn't terrible. Wolves and Bournemouth are must wins. If Dom is 50/50 he still plays.

Jerome Shields
233 Posted 14/05/2023 at 18:04:02
On watching the first half whilst better than normal for 30 minutes the team was not at the races. Two crosses which tactically should have been cut out found unmarked forwards who had space and time to score. They were lucky that City only scored one goal in the second half.

This was the third game after two results and it was always going to be a tall order to motivate the team to compete after their previous exertions.

They should play better against Wolves and will definitely need to, then on to Bournemouth and Premier League survival by the skin of their teeth, if lucky with other results.

Maupay is a waste of space. Need a threat.

Paul Hewitt
234 Posted 14/05/2023 at 18:04:56
It's simple: win the last 2 and we're safe. If we don't and go down, then we deserve to.
Allan Board
235 Posted 14/05/2023 at 18:05:26
Never going to beat these today. There 3rd team would beat Everton.

Next two games are the clincher. Realistically Leicester will lose Monday and next week away at Newcastle. So Everton must get 4 points from Wolves and Bournemouth.

It's Leeds that rattle me – probably be playing a 2nd string West Ham next week, and Spurs are just shite and have given up. Forest are safe.

Win both games, Everton, and it is all irrelevant – that should be the mentality.

Andrew McLawrence
236 Posted 14/05/2023 at 18:05:54
On a side note, but when did Arteta become such a knob?
Colin Glassar
237 Posted 14/05/2023 at 18:08:30
When he left Everton, Andrew.
Ray Jacques
238 Posted 14/05/2023 at 18:22:44
Allan, I don't agree Forest are safe as their last two games are harder on paper and I reckon they will get 1 point which puts them on 35.

I think Leeds will get 4 points to get them to 35 also but with a better goal difference. Leicester I see getting to 33.

Therefore 4 points to get us to 36 is needed to be certain, although 35 in this scenario would relegate Forest. However, if I do it again in 10 minutes, then it's all different!!!!!

It's in our hands so no excuses if we are relegated.

As an aside, how did we beat Brighton, they are schooling Arsenal at the Emirates?

Mike Price
239 Posted 14/05/2023 at 18:31:25
Jordan Pickford is terrible. He signed a new contract because no one else wants him so hedged his bets; well played to his agent. I’ve watched us for a long time and he’s one of my least favourite ever players. I can’t wait to see the back of him.
Michael Boardman
240 Posted 14/05/2023 at 18:32:49
Scouting, Ray. South American bargains while our much vaunted DoF's couldn't look beyond the league we were in, or anyone we played, when they had to.
Christy Ring
241 Posted 14/05/2023 at 18:32:55
Arsenal have nothing to play for at Forest.

If West Ham win on Thursday night, they'll play a weakened team against Leeds 3 days later, so we can't rely on any favours.

Raymond Fox
242 Posted 14/05/2023 at 18:33:52
I'm less confident that we will survive after some of the results today. Add possible injuries once more and things are looking decidedly more uncertain.

Our overall home form is the main reason we are in relegation trouble in the first place, so we are no good thing to beat Bournemouth.

Wolves beat us at Goodison, so how are we going to fare on their track? I don't think we will be favourite to win.

Michael Boardman
243 Posted 14/05/2023 at 18:34:04
Why should we rely on favours. Simple, win the two games, stay in the Premier League.
Chris Leyland
244 Posted 14/05/2023 at 18:37:42
Allan - when Spurs play Leeds, they need to a start Richarlison as he will save us just like he did last season!
Peter Dodds
245 Posted 14/05/2023 at 18:38:07
The 3-0 score line hasn’t helped us vis a vis Leeds. For example, if we can only get two draws then Leeds can go ahead of us with a win and a loss - provided their “win GD” exceeds their “loss GD”.

And for those saying “it’s in our hands” - not if Leicester win tomorrow night.

Peter Mills
246 Posted 14/05/2023 at 18:42:46
Paul #230, thanks for that perspective.

I've just watched it again and it seems I was being hyper-critical, it looked rather different live from my position behind Holgate.

Derek Knox
247 Posted 14/05/2023 at 18:43:32
Ian @ 228, do you practice being a bell-end, or does it just come naturally?
Danny O’Neill
248 Posted 14/05/2023 at 18:45:30
On my way home. I'll reflect in the morning.

Disappointed with the result and when we needed something.

But that wasn't the decider.

We performed well against the best team in England, arguably Europe.

Mick O'Malley
249 Posted 14/05/2023 at 18:47:42
Mike Price @239, I agree, I'd sell him in a heartbeat, if he stays, he stays, but to be honest, I'm not arsed either way.
Brian Wilkinson
250 Posted 14/05/2023 at 18:49:54
I was not expecting anything from today's game, against possibly the best team on the planet, and a bench to match.

Everton competed for a good 37 minutes, beaten by two goals, then a third from a free kick taken a good few feet further infield but not one single Everton player bringing it to the ref's attention.

Smart move taking Calvert-Lewin and Gueye off, save them for the next two games.

After Holgate finally got hooked off, I thought we looked a lot better and certainly never gave up, just a pity Coady cannot play in the next game with it being Wolves.

Overall, we gave it a go and never gave up, just outclassed by a far superior team on the day.

I have a lot of time for you, John McFarlene Snr, and admire it's a team and not about individuals, so if I offend you here, apologies beforehand, but for me Keane and Holgate are just not good enough to wear the Everton shirt and hopefully will be shipped out in the summer, two very poor players.

Ian Riley
252 Posted 14/05/2023 at 19:13:49
How is it possible to go at Man City? Those being critical of the manager, please remember it's in our hands. If still under the leadership of Frank Lampard, it probably would have been us relegated yesterday and not Southampton.

Man City are on the march! No complaints today! Move on to more realistic opposition to stay in the league.

John McFarlane Snr
253 Posted 14/05/2023 at 19:16:02
Hi Derek [207],

I think that you have been a bit rough on Holgate, and the truth is that you have no option other than accepting any team selection, whether or not you like a player. As a supporter, it's not asking too much of you to be less critical, and to acknowledge the fact that anyone who plays football for a living can obviously play football better than some, and not as good as others.

On a different topic, I recently posted to you regarding ToffeeWeb badges stating that I would be prepared to pay the required sum, but because you haven't responded, and the fact that a fellow ToffeeWebber suggested that you appear to have lost a great deal of interest for the get-togethers, and I'm afraid that I'm withdrawing the offer.

Rob Halligan
254 Posted 14/05/2023 at 19:17:57
Derek # 247. It just comes naturally to the moaning fuckers on here. Hasn’t been seen for nearly two weeks. Now I wonder why that is?
Kevin Molloy
255 Posted 14/05/2023 at 19:18:31
So Arsenal have the stuffing knocked out of them just before the Forest game. Bloody hell – that's bad timing for us. This has not been a good weekend.
Soren Moyer
256 Posted 14/05/2023 at 19:24:48
On the other hand, the Brighton win could force Tottenham to play for a win at Leeds to avoid being overtaken by Villa; Brentford and possibly Fulham and miss out on a Europa League place as a result of that!
Derek Taylor
257 Posted 14/05/2023 at 19:29:22
I hope the 'Boardroom Cowards' will resign before relegation becomes a fact.

Any talk from Boys Pen Bill and his crew about sticking around to see us back in the Premier League should be met with a boycott of all home games until they have done the decent thing and fucked off forever!

Phil Wood
258 Posted 14/05/2023 at 19:31:12
Ray Roche 223 well said.

Some of the rubbish spouted about the City match is hysterical. I thought we did okay too, Ray, considering who we were playing. No collapse and showed some character, 2nd half especially.

Also like to comment on Dwight McNeil who now looks a class act all over the pitch.

Two massive games coming up now. UTFT.

Brian Denton
259 Posted 14/05/2023 at 19:36:00
Winning the last two doesn't necessarily keep us up if Leicester win all three of theirs, and Forest pull out a couple of wins.
Ian Edwards
260 Posted 14/05/2023 at 19:38:19
Derek 247 Rob 254

You're mistaken. I was all over the live forum at Brighton and commented on the post-match report.

My opinion is that Maupay is better than Simms. Dyche also obviously agrees.

Garry Martin
261 Posted 14/05/2023 at 19:42:32
Another bad performance by Holgate. He's quickly becoming a liability along the same lines as Godfrey; Iwobi goes missing again.

Great games by Calvert-Lewin, McNeil, Gana, Patterson, Tarkowski, Garner and Mina. Not sure about Doucouré, Pickford and Onana.

Quality of City shone through though eventually.

Colin Glassar
262 Posted 14/05/2023 at 19:45:02
Some of the nonsense about teams like Arsenal, Spurs and Brighton taking their foot off the gas is ridiculous. Just like Bournemouth, West Ham Utd and Wolves, they all want to finish as high as possible.

This will go down to the final game. I can see us drawing at Wolves and sealing survival against Bournemouth.

Today wasn't a disaster. Today we just saw the gulf in class between both clubs. Not just teams but clubs.

Dale Self
263 Posted 14/05/2023 at 19:48:10
We may be missing the art of the joke with the Ian show. If you will note it is now a method of making factual statements that perform antagonistic logic. Don’t ask for consistency over time. Don’t ask for logical progression. Just get the joke. Ha ha. That’s largely it. We all want more from interactions but hey it’s the 21st century. How it is.
Brent Stephens
264 Posted 14/05/2023 at 19:51:30
His is post-modern comedy, Dale. Or just post comedy.
Neil Carter
265 Posted 14/05/2023 at 19:53:08
No disgrace today-we got as near to City as any other team could-no stopping them with all 3 trophies. We were about a billion pounds short.

Can the dodgy RS get something at Leicester? Or will they roll over like they did atForest?

Neil Carter
266 Posted 14/05/2023 at 19:56:01
No disgrace today. We got as near to City as any other team could – no stopping them with all 3 trophies. We were about a billion pounds short.

Can the dodgy RS get something at Leicester? Or will they roll over like they did at Forest?

Peter Carpenter
267 Posted 14/05/2023 at 19:56:31
Well done to the fans who cheered Holgate's substitution. Why do some of them always need a hate figure?

Barkley, Gordon, now Holgate. He was playing out of position, against a top winger. Give him shit, why not?

Crap support, really crap.

Rob Halligan
268 Posted 14/05/2023 at 19:56:38

Mind you, anyone who calls Ancelotti a dinosaur, clearly has a vast (non-)knowledge of football!

Ian Edwards
269 Posted 14/05/2023 at 20:01:57
If people abuse me for merely giving an opinion, I'll return serve.
Brent Stephens
270 Posted 14/05/2023 at 20:03:00
I actually thought we did not do too bad either side of the three goals. I know, 3 goals conceded isn't great but against City no disgrace.

As I say, either side of that was not bad, and augurs well for the final two games.

Dale Self
271 Posted 14/05/2023 at 20:04:38
Ha Brent! I only saw the first line and was thinking that punchline immediately.

I'm going with transfactual until someone says it is offensive. Except you, of course, Ian.

Dale Self
272 Posted 14/05/2023 at 20:07:00
It's the bad comedy, Ian. Come on, man. And even skipping the other stuff, as Daniel Davies said ‘No whining if you're a contrarian'. It really is part of the gig; toughen up, man.
Clive Rogers
273 Posted 14/05/2023 at 20:11:21
Leeds are the danger. They are playing better and have West Ham away and Spurs at home.
Mark Ryan
274 Posted 14/05/2023 at 20:43:50
Peter @ 257,

It's perfectly right that the crowd give Holgate stick. He's not a hate figure. This is not personal abuse. He's a truly dreadful member of this squad – let alone the team.

Dyche doesn't agree, clearly, and will play him but you say he was out of position. I'd say he's useless in any position and so it was no surprise that today he would be the weak link in the team.

If Mykolenko had played, it's a different result. Holgate was fucking appalling and should never play for us again. But, he will and therein lies the real problem.

Geoff Cadman
275 Posted 14/05/2023 at 20:43:56
Did anyone really expect a result today? Lots of wishful thinking, me included, but we were well beaten by a much better side.

Arsenal losing today means they have handed Man City the title, let's hope they turn up at Forest next week. Now we are sweating on DCL and hoping Wolves and Bournemouth are on the beach.

Does anyone know why security appeared to be raised today? Turnstile operators, Police inside the concourses, and the ring around the players tunnel at full-time.

Well done to all Blues who cheered the players off the pitch at full-time despite the disappointing result, hopefully it will give them a lift.

Anthony Dove
276 Posted 14/05/2023 at 20:47:47
The third goal was the killer. The free-kick resulted from a foul on Foden. He was injured and had treatment from the trainer. However, when he recovered, instead of having to go off the field, he was allowed to stay on.

Either Taylor has reinvented the laws or I have spent my life watching every other referee misinterpret the laws.

Ian Edwards
277 Posted 14/05/2023 at 20:51:01
It's worrying that Arsenal will be deflated going to Forest and will probably rotate. West Ham play Leeds after a Cup Semi in Holland.

We must beat Wolves on Saturday or we could be in the Bottom 3 going into the Bournemouth game.

Brent Stephens
278 Posted 14/05/2023 at 20:54:26
I don't agree that Holgate should get stick, and certainly not during the game (counter-productive), unless there's any point at which he deliberately takes his foot off the pedal.

I just think that the problem is that he's not good enough. Not his fault. And if picked, he has to play; what would we be saying if he refused to play for the Blues when we are short?

No boos, just a sad resignation about his ability.

Andy Meighan
279 Posted 14/05/2023 at 20:54:50
What's this "on the beach" nonsense? Is that a metaphor for a team not playing well because they've got nothing to play for?

Correct me if I'm wrong but there's really no such thing.

Brent Stephens
280 Posted 14/05/2023 at 20:56:42
IFAB LAw 5: "The player can stay on the field of play if he/she was injured as the result of a physical offence for which the opponent is cautioned (yellow card, YC) or sent off (red card, RC) and the assessment/treatment is completed quickly. Otherwise, the player must leave the field of play."
Anthony Dove
282 Posted 14/05/2023 at 21:01:51
Thank you, Brent, and when was the last time (before today) you saw that particular law applied?
Colin Glassar
283 Posted 14/05/2023 at 21:03:10
Holgate was left out to dry today. He’s not a good defender at the best of times but today he was all at sea. I felt sorry for the lad seeing him in tears on the bench but he’s one of a bunch who need moving on in the summer.
John McFarlane Snr
284 Posted 14/05/2023 at 21:03:17
Hi Brian [250],

Apologies are not needed, you are entitled to air your views, and if Keane and Holgate are not good enough to wear the Everton shirt, it's not their fault. I have no doubt that they don't play badly on purpose.

Brent Stephens
285 Posted 14/05/2023 at 21:08:11
Anthony, yes, consistency of application is all we want.
Paul Birmingham
286 Posted 14/05/2023 at 21:09:59
Everton, Hope always, and this next few weeks will define, the future of Everton FC, to some extent.

Today, was no disgrace, v the best Team, in Europe, and time will prove to the world, depending on their match v Real, later this week.

City are a class Team, and credit where it’s due.

Wolves and Bournemouth, I'm confident, Everton, will take them, both, assuming DCL, is fit, and the 12th Man, will see them, over the line, for survival in the EPL.

City are light years the best team in this EPL, and in terms of consistency, they have set a bench mark, that is hard to see being beaten, for the immediate future.

They as a squad have matured from their previous, deemed failures.

Everton, can take great heart, from this week, and the Everton fans, will be the difference, and hopefully a little bit of help from the neighbours and West Ham, these next few weeks.

Stay together, strength, and guts and belief, now is the order of the day.

Hopefully Arsenal, will have a point to prove v Forest. That result puts in perspective, Evertons victory at Brighton.

Everton, will prevail, this season.


John Charles
287 Posted 14/05/2023 at 21:14:46
Can't believe the hype around Leeds and Allardyce on here.
Man City could and should have put 8 past them and they scraped a draw against The Barcodes.

Suddenly they are winning two games on the bounce. Get real, they are shit.

Why will they win their games and not us?

Danny O’Neill
288 Posted 14/05/2023 at 21:16:17
I got up at 4 am to have a coffee and get the boy out early.

Left the house about 6 am and I've just got back to London as it took an hour from Milton Keynes to Euston because of engineering works.

Still an hour to get home.

Worth it? Totally. We performed even if we didn't get the result.

No complaints from me. Those who stayed to the end let the players know they respected the effort.

Wolves next week. We go and do it. Bournemouth. Finish on 38 points… and breathe.

Peter Carpenter
289 Posted 14/05/2023 at 21:16:33
'It's perfectly right that the crowd give Holgate stick' (274).

Really? Don't be surprised when you see confidence destroyed and performances declining.

It's pretty basic. He's picked, he's playing. Support your own players and you might see a better performance.

12 months ago, he was one of our better players in the run-in. Since then, he's been in and out of the team and seldom played in his best position.

I wouldn't have blamed him if he had given the crowd the middle finger when he went off. As I said, that was crap support.

Lee Robinson
290 Posted 14/05/2023 at 21:19:34
We've been very lucky a few penalties have gone our way in the last few weeks, if both Maddison and Bamford scored, we would be in the Bottom 3.

I think Leeds look the most likely to pick up points in the next few games. I wouldn't be too surprised to see them beat West Ham next week. We need to go all out for 2 wins, I'm afraid.

Kevin Molloy
291 Posted 14/05/2023 at 21:21:09
I know we were playing Man city and fair enough. But our form at Goodison is literally off the charts. It's never been worse.

This is not bad luck, it's like we are stuck in some doom loop. An atmosphere of dread descends at the first set-back. It could be a real problem in the final game; let's hope we get it done at Wolves.

Soren Moyer
292 Posted 14/05/2023 at 21:22:13
I can't believe Fat Frank failed to beat Forest at home this season, TWICE!!!
Derek Knox
293 Posted 14/05/2023 at 21:22:45
John @ 253,

I think there has been a crossing of wires somehow. I had nothing to do with the ordering of the TW Badges but, like you, wholeheartedly supported the idea. I can't even remember who it was that suggested it, but I would definitely order one or two myself, should it ever come back as a definite official order requisition.

Perhaps the originator of the idea may read and ask the Eds for a thread to invite orders and a method to pay and give addresses etc.

Ian Edwards
294 Posted 14/05/2023 at 21:32:47
ToffeeWeb badges? Can I suggest some designs:

1. Happy Clapper

2. Blame Ian Edwards

3. Ancelotti is a dinosaur.

I'll order one of each. Maybe not the first one.

Tony Everan
295 Posted 14/05/2023 at 21:36:57
A positive story: Jarrad Branthwaite played another full game for PSV and helped them to their eighth win in a row to guarantee second place and a Champions League place (qualifiers).

We've got to stay up and get Branthwaite into the team alongside Tarkowski next season.

Brent Stephens
296 Posted 14/05/2023 at 21:38:26
Order me a dozen Number 2s.
Brent Stephens
297 Posted 14/05/2023 at 21:39:58
Thanks for that update, Tony.

Every time I read about Branthwaite it's nothing but exciting. Would love to see him back here and in the team.

Brendan McLaughlin
298 Posted 14/05/2023 at 21:41:47
Soren #292,

I easily can.

Brian Wilkinson
299 Posted 14/05/2023 at 21:47:12
One thing I will never do is boo a player while they are on the pitch, but If I think someone has had a very good game, or a shocker, I will vent my views after the final whistle.

Nothing will convince me that, long-term, Holgate will take us forward as a full-back. He had a shocker today and was rightfully hooked off; after that, we never conceded and looked better in defence.

It's not easy being a right-footed player and asked to play as a left-back so not Holgate's fault he was asked to play there, no more so than expecting Godfrey to play as a right-back.

I will say one thing in Holgate's defence: he seems to be a better player when he plays in front of the defence, like a Lee Carsley type role. I cannot fault the lad there, but he's not good enough for me as a defender.

Danny O’Neill
300 Posted 14/05/2023 at 21:56:44
It wasn't the player's fault in my opinion Brian.

The manager made the choice and, as I said to the supporters sat around me, he should have been hooked at half time.

Not his fault. Poor tactical decision.

Another point. I will never leave before the end.

And I have over 200 miles to travel.

Not a brag, I always want to see the team off the pitch, good or bad.

Ernie Baywood
301 Posted 14/05/2023 at 22:07:03
If Dom does indeed have an injury, then it's vital we play the right player in the next two games.

In that case, the second 45 minutes would have given that player valuable time on the pitch ahead of being deployed rather than being thrown into the team without playing in a long time.

So it's going to be Maupay isn't it?

Brian Wilkinson
302 Posted 14/05/2023 at 22:08:02
Not sure what else we could have done Danny, we are so poor for cover at right and left back, that players are playing there to plug the gaps and playing out of position.

He will not start Coady, but he had no option than to put him on today, realised his tactical right back gamble failed badly, for me we looked better after that change, but unless Mykolenko is fit for next week, we are screwed again, Coady cannot play next week, against his parent club, unless Godfrey is fit and we play him on his stronger side, on the left then god knows who we put in a left back.

A little off topic Danny but yourself and a few others go the away games and the support is fantastic, none stop for 90 minutes, yet at Goodison, our fortress, we just do not seem to use the same advantage and make Goodison a bear pit, yes singing is there but for long periods, Goodison is quiet.

I know today those of us that stayed started singing the team name and clapped the players off, but I just think we are missing a huge advantage of having too many long periods of a silent Goodison.

Brendan McLaughlin
303 Posted 14/05/2023 at 22:11:29
On Ian's suggestion @294, I came up with:

1. A pair of clasped hands with broad grinning teeth above.

3. A Tyrannosaurus Rex with a raised eyebrow and/or trying not to spill a cup of coffee whilst cornering a sabre-toothed tiger.

I am struggling with No 2.

Ian Edwards
304 Posted 14/05/2023 at 22:16:00
Interesting post-match comments from Guardiola.

It's alleged that Mina pinches and scratches opponents when the Ref isn't looking. Haaland has pinch marks on his body.

Gundogan said in an interview in March that Mina is known for this.

Now it's in the open, Dyche needs to have a word as VAR could be looking out for it.

Tony Everan
305 Posted 14/05/2023 at 22:22:56
Ian, Don’t blame Yerry. The manager did tell them before the match we were playing KITAP1.

Brent Stephens
306 Posted 14/05/2023 at 22:28:50
Take a bow, Tony!
Paul Smith
307 Posted 14/05/2023 at 22:38:36
Holgate is calamitous. His header straight to a city player under no pressure and then the free kick. It's not like it's a one-off, he's been doing it for years.

He's not very good and he's all we have. Apart from he's not, as Coady showed with a change in formation when he came on we improved instantly.

Dyche is more culpable than Mason. I actually felt sorry for him going off, he was visibly upset – and that's coming from someone who hopes he never plays a game that matters for us again.

Rob Halligan
308 Posted 14/05/2023 at 22:39:44
John # 287…….it's because what some posters on this forum like to do. They like to “big” up other teams, and make them out to be better than the team they allege to support.

I totally agree with you, City could and should easily have put at least 6 past Leeds. As for yesterday, they time wasted and fouled their way to an eventual point.

Also, apparently we've been lucky because some penalties have been missed, which, had they been scored, could have put us in the Bottom 3. Well, fuck me, isn't that what a goalkeeper is there for, to save these penalties?

Christy Ring
309 Posted 14/05/2023 at 22:45:32
I love our great football experts coming on here and abusing a player who was picked at left back, never played there before, against one of the trickiest wingers in Mahrez. Holgate didn’t deserve the booing, sad to see, his confidence destroyed. I remember when Duncan played him in midfield against Chelsea and he was excellent. It would have made more sense if Dyche had started McNeill at left back or the u20 left back.
Paul Hewitt
310 Posted 14/05/2023 at 22:52:17
Ok so Everton won't go down this season. They will win the league next season, and the champions league the season after that. So does that make the happy clappers happy.?
Sam Hoare
311 Posted 14/05/2023 at 22:53:17
It says a lot that we’ve spent an absolute fortune on players over last 5 years and we only have one left back. And he’s not great if I’m being honest.

Holgate is no great shakes but he’s playing out of position there against a great winger.

It comes back to the board and the way the club has been (mis)directed for the last 5 years.

The performance and tactics were actually not bad. It wasn’t a 3-0 type of match and for those into xG the models had the score as 1.19-1.04.

But performance doesn’t really matter now. All about the points. Very much hope we can find a way of getting at least 1 if not 3 against Wolves.

Svein-Roger Jensen
312 Posted 14/05/2023 at 23:02:03
Massive mistake by Dyche to go with Foulgate
Peter Carpenter
313 Posted 14/05/2023 at 23:29:11
Why call him Foulgate?
Phil Lewis
314 Posted 14/05/2023 at 23:43:59
I'm disgusted by the disgraceful treatment Holgate has received from certain so called fans. He was asked to play in a position he was clearly unsuited to, against a world class winger. Unsurprisingly he struggled, yet there were many who were eager to heap criticism on the lad before a ball had even been kicked.

I concede that Holgate has made errors in the limited opportunities he's been given, but I still believe that in the right set up, he is a talented player. His confidence has taken a battering and it may prove to be in everyone's interest if he moves on in the summer.

It's only a few seasons back after a good run of form, that he was being touted for an England call up, such were the standard of his performances. No doubt the same people singing his praises then, are guilty of booing the player now.

When he broke into the team, for a while he showed the potential of a John Stones type of central defender. Another player incidentally who was prone to error in the early part of his career. Perhaps if Holgate had received the coaching Stones has been afforded, then the weaknesses in his game might have been ironed out by now.

Criticise players by all means after the final whistle, but to boo any of our players while the game is in progress, is in my opinion unforgivable.

Alec Gaston
315 Posted 14/05/2023 at 23:46:56
Phil 314 - Spot on
Geoff Cadman
316 Posted 14/05/2023 at 00:01:13
Dale Self
317 Posted 15/05/2023 at 00:15:37
Okay so I had a smoke and unfortunately was tempted to take a look above. I am suddenly inspired by Ian 294. At the beginning of the blog era one site would read people so you would not have to and simply provide a shorter version of the unreadables.

Shorter version Ian Edwards: I’m too lazy to come up with something truly clever and perplexing but I just want some attention so can you just read what I wrote and give it to me?

Lester Yip
318 Posted 15/05/2023 at 00:24:52
I think we did alright defensively until the 1st goal that came from nowhere. I can see the defender blocks off his right foot so Gundowon had his back to goal but that improvised little flick undone us.

2nd goal lost too quickly. Still rocked by the 1st goal and players mind probably lost the focus. Could have done better. 3rd goal was a worldie. So it's not too damaging in my opinion.

Dale Self
319 Posted 15/05/2023 at 00:27:09
I blew the joke ( my writers are on strike ). I should have posted
Shorter Ian Edwards: I need attention but I’m too lazy to ….

Oh well.

George Stuart
320 Posted 15/05/2023 at 00:29:09
I've worked out that if Leicester drop any points in the next two games, Bournemouth are safe.
As a congratulations to them I feel we should place a couple of cases of champagne in their dressing room. Plus Pate de foie gras with toasted sour dough bread.
Also a smattering of holiday brochures and Health Insurance pamphlets warning of unforeseen injuries.
All BEFORE the game.
Mark Taylor
321 Posted 15/05/2023 at 01:13:33
I don't see there was much else that could be done today. The low block worked against Brighton, but City are a much more talented team. Had we pressed higher up the pitch, we'd have been torn to shreds. It worked for 35 mins, and again we broke quickly and in numbers. It took a worldie goal to break through and that was always going to make more goals more likely.

As for Holgate, I'm not sure what other options existed given Vinagre, who we don't even know is any good, is injured. I felt sorry for him when he was subbed and how upset he was on the bench. I think part of his frustration was knowing himself, he just isn't good enough for this league, something we have known for some time. The fault is not his, but the club, who have allowed him to stay here for 8 years, no less.

If DCL is out, as I fear he will be given his injury recovery challenges, that might well spell the end for us. We look a much more effective team with him leading the line. Hopefully it was just a precaution or a rest. I've no idea who saw Maupay as worth buying. He is another not good enough for this league. Without DCL, we surely have to roll the dice with Simms. He hardly sets the world alight but we haven't seen that much of him, certainly a lot less than Maupay. And at least the Chelsea goal suggests he has some sort of eye for scoring, which Maupay evidently does not.

Ernie Baywood
322 Posted 15/05/2023 at 01:15:23
So frustrating to see us end up at a formation for the second half that I've been adamant for months was the only setup that suited our squad shape and size.

We don't have wide players. We've got McNeil and a couple of right backs - that's it. Yet we continue to play a formation that relies on wide players. Christ, for most of the season we didn't even have a centre forward for the wide players to cross to!

People might hate the 3 CB setup but it's the only shape that suits the disaster of a squad we have. We have an abundance of centre backs - pick 3 of them. We have an abundance of centre midfielders. Pick 3 of them. We don't break teams down with wing play, we counter attack.

That forces McNeil into a wing back role but it gets Mykolenko out of the team. That's a reasonable trade in my book. Let's be honest, McNeil spends most of his time playing that role anyway.

I suspect we're completely out of options now. We're hoping that Mykolenko is fit next week just so we can play a back 4. When Mykolenko's availability is key to us then we have a massive problem. He's nowhere near good enough to be that key to our plans.

Without Mykolenko, what option do we have? We're just throwing players to the Wolves (pardon the pun) out there.

We're going to end up in a formation that we haven't really played in. And we could have been playing it because it's the only one that ever made sense. The only reason we didn't was the tactical rigidity of our coaches.

Kieran Kinsella
323 Posted 15/05/2023 at 01:49:59
With Vinagre's loan having gone sour, I'd have picked Abbott or Costello ahead of Holgate. He can't play in his own position – much less any other.

I realize Abbott and Costello are both dead and couldn't play football but an exhumation versus Holgate's wages would be a saving. Plus their bones would stay in position and would be unlikely to get sent off.

Pete Clarke
324 Posted 15/05/2023 at 03:19:03
I do feel a bit for Holgate. He did show promise in his early days with us but then he also became a little bit arrogant with this too.

Everton has ruined many a player's career with poor coaching and yesterday Holgate, who is very badly out of form and confidence, is put into a team to face the best team in the world because the club has fucked up on so much recruitment and there's no other options.

It seems, if we are gonna get 3 more points, it may have to be at Wolves because Goodison and the home crowd can also destroy the team mentally when things are not going well.

On another point which I've brought up before and that's Mina. He is a horrible player and an absolute fraud. 6-ft 5-in and he's constantly playing dirty tricks. He did not win many of his duels yesterday and then makes a fool of himself again with that pathetic dive in our area.

He could cost us dearly if Dyche does not warn him about it and for me has to be the first of many players shown the door. He's been pinching more than opponents' skin because he's also been pinching a living for years from us. If anyone needs booing – it's him.

I thought we were well in that game yesterday and only Walker's pace and alertness stopped Calvert-Lewin getting through on goal. Doucouré was also close to getting through but his poor touch let him down but we were having a go. Eventually their class took over but that's no disgrace.
I still think Carlo will do them this week though.

So onto Wolves we go. Calvert-Lewin has to play even if it's with painkillers. Either that or Simms because Maupay has got nothing at all.

We may all be juggling our thoughts about the other relegation-threatened teams' opponents but I'm glad it's not us playing Spurs, West Ham or Arsenal.

Jamie Crowley
325 Posted 15/05/2023 at 04:24:32
Just win the last 2 and we'll be up.

Wolves game is massive. 3 points is key.

Kind of sickening I'm contemplating our survival. My boys and I are on vacation and we sat around discussing our greatest Everton moments.

All of us said the Palace game. Then we all felt sick when we remembered the heady days of, "5th isn't good enough!"

Gawd it's torture sometimes.

Steve Brown
326 Posted 15/05/2023 at 05:50:09
I thought we did okay for 60 minutes (first 35 minutes and last 25 mins) against the best team in the world currently. Equally, I don't blame Dyche for picking Holgate at left back - he had precious few options and McNeil could not be sacrificed for a defensive role given he is most productive outlet.

Equally, I do wonder why posters here are suddenly convinced that teams who have not won games for weeks – Leeds and Leicester – are suddenly going to start? If they do win a game, we know that winning our final two games should see us safe.

Ian 294, you missed a few out:

4. Play 4-4-fookin-2

5. Sack the manager

6. Everton fans are ‘feral dogs'.

Paul 310, lose the ‘happy clappers' line or you'll end up sounding like Ian. You may be the master of the pessimistic ‘one-liner' but at least you post regularly on good days and bad days.

Steve Brown
327 Posted 15/05/2023 at 05:55:11
Ernie @ 322,

You might be right about a back 3 but Dyche recognises he doesn't have time to implement it.

He is trying to simplify things to a level this squad of players can process.

Lee Courtliff
328 Posted 15/05/2023 at 06:59:30
I think we should bear in mind that if we'd been offered a point away at Brighton and a point at home to City, then most people would have taken it. So, instead of 2 points we've got 3!

I know it was disappointing yesterday but there wasn't really anything else Dyche could have done, realistically.

We're still in it and must stick together.

Peter Carpenter
329 Posted 15/05/2023 at 07:18:50
Correct, Phil (314).
Ernie Baywood
330 Posted 15/05/2023 at 07:39:28
Steve, I'd question whether going with a player who can't play at left-back in a back 4 is any better than playing decently suited players in a back 5.

But I completely get your point. That's the source of my frustration. It was well worth a go at the tail end of last year when it became obvious we were shoe-horning players into roles they didn't suit. And all to get players in attacking wide roles when we didn't have a striker capable of benefiting from wide players.

If we end up going with it now out of necessity (he's not picking Holgate again) then it's not a quick fix. It's a new way of playing – for the two most crucial games imaginable.

Tony Abrahams
331 Posted 15/05/2023 at 07:59:10
I've stayed off this thread because everything has probably already been said and I don't really want to argue about which players who are not good enough, who should be playing because they are better than other players who are also simply not good enough.

My feelings are the same as Sams @311, one natural left-back on the books? And only one centre-forward at the club, who is good enough to lead the line in the ultra physical Premier League, on a regular basis?

Everton have been run disgracefully for way too long now. Brands wouldn't sell Kenny for £6 million; 18 months later he's out the door for free. The same thing is going to happen with Tom Davies, and for all those saying he's shite anyway, then I would argue that's just systematic of the way Everton Football Club has been run for years.

The time for real change is now.

John Jones
332 Posted 15/05/2023 at 08:14:26
Just a point of order: City's third goal.

Foden receiving extensive treatment after Man City were given the free-kick resulting in their third goal. He remained on the pitch and didn't retire to the byline and wait to be called back on.

Surely with all the officials watching, and the VAR if you like, someone should have picked this up and maybe the free-kick should have been retaken.

Rob Halligan
333 Posted 15/05/2023 at 08:22:50
John, apparently if a player who fouls another player, receives a booking for that foul, then the injured player does not have to leave the pitch. Brent posted this earlier on in this thread.

At the time, I think everyone thought exactly the same, why didn't Foden leave the pitch?

It's a bloody ridiculous rule anyway, why should the injured player have to leave the pitch following treatment, yet the perpetrator stays on?

Jerome Shields
334 Posted 15/05/2023 at 08:35:08
Ernie #322,

That's exactly what I meant by crosses not being cut out tactically resulting in two goals in the first half. It has been a glaring weakness in a relegation dogfight that the formation you point out has not been played.

Dyche actually set up the same as the Brighton game, but to expect this team to be able to keep the same intensity in the following game is for the birds. The unchallenged with space and time City forwards was a case in point. Trying to do so was a gift for City who spent the week in preparation,

Tony #331,

You could put Holgate in that category also. The Club is a breeding ground for under-performance and ineptitude.

I actually don't think that City live up to their accolades. The Premier League is badly run and a lot of money is wasted. If City set up like that against Ancelotti's Real Madrid, they are toast

Mark Ryan
335 Posted 15/05/2023 at 08:52:27
Surely Conor Coady would do a better job at left-back rather than Mason Holgate.

At least Coady is fired up and can tackle. Why not go with him rather than Holgate?

Steve Cotton
336 Posted 15/05/2023 at 08:53:50
I see Haaland is showing pictures of his boots with 35 league goals crossed out and 36 added in pen...

Well done, lad – just over half Dixie Dean's total.
Mike Price
337 Posted 15/05/2023 at 08:55:50
The club incompetence everyone is talking about is continuing unabated.

We've just given Pickford an improved contract when we could have unloaded him at the end of the season. Saying it's to protect an asset is wrong because no decent team would pay a big fee for him.

As usual, the contract we've given him has turned him into a liability, in more ways than one. If we give Iwobi a new deal that would be the ultimate confirmation of utter incompetence.

Bill Piscass
338 Posted 15/05/2023 at 08:57:33
We tried to play like we did in that excellent performance at Brighton. Sadly they found the formulae to beat us.

I feel Pickford was at fault for 2 of the goals. Haaland header, middle of the goal. The free-kick was embarrassing. Pickford too far over.

Why Dyche didn't start with 3 at the back and 2 defending wingbacks? Coady, Mina and Tarkowski. On to the next, we should play on the break against Wolves like Brighton.

Rob Halligan
339 Posted 15/05/2023 at 08:57:54
Mark # 335,

It might be worth considering for the final game at home against Bournemouth, as, unfortunately, he is unable to play against Wolves next weekend.

George Cumiskey
340 Posted 15/05/2023 at 09:08:40
I'll say it again: massive, massive mistake playing Holgate, doomed from the start.
Christopher Timmins
341 Posted 15/05/2023 at 09:24:51
Keep things in perspective, if offered 3 points last Monday morning from the Brighton and City games, I would've snapped your hand off.

If Calvert-Lewin is out for next weekend, then Gray should play up top. We have less options to play with at left-back, so I hope Mykolenko makes it back. Holgate is no worse than Godfrey or Keane. Dyche is not a fan of a back 5 so it's hard to see what solution he will come up with.

Martin Mason
342 Posted 15/05/2023 at 09:36:23
In the end, the Brighton revival couldn't be continued but City are a World Class side and to be fair we played really well until the inevitable happened.

So the can is back on the road this morning and being kicked down to Wolverhampton. Keep right on to the end, guys.

Brian Harrison
343 Posted 15/05/2023 at 09:43:09
I think we should remember that yesterday we were playing the current Champions and soon to be crowned this season's Champions as well as probable European Champions and possibly the best side in world football.

We all hoped that Guardiola would make loads of changes, and I definitely thought he would rest Kyle Walker given the pace of Vinicius Junior for Real Madrid. But just as well he didn't as twice Walker denied first Doucoure and then Calvert-Lewin having a 1-on-1 with Ederson.

For 30 minutes, City had 1 shot on goal and I thought we had carried out our game plan to perfection, but some unbelievable skill from Gundogan turned the game and they quickly followed with a 2nd which basically killed the game.

The 2nd half started with no Calvert-Lewin who we have learned had a slight injury and Dyche was absolutely right to take no chances. Gundogan scored a marvellous free-kick that we couldn't do anything about.

To be perfectly honest, I was staggered as to how many of our fans walked out at this point. All you can ask is that your players give 100% for 90 minutes and every player in a blue shirt did that. Yes, you can argue about the quality or lack of it in certain players but, if they are giving 100% of what they have, then that's all you can ask.

Also let's remember this team went away to Leicester and got a draw and completely blew Brighton away, something very few of us thought possible. I was pleased to be amongst the fans who stayed and applauded the players to let them know we are with them all the way in this relegation fight.

My take is that, if Leicester don't win tonight, we have only to match the points that they and Leeds get in the final 2 games to avoid the drop, and I think we will.

Rob Halligan
344 Posted 15/05/2023 at 09:59:06
Brian, if Leicester lose tonight, then they are gone, as I think Newcastle will blow them away at the weekend.

Here's an interesting thought though, or maybe a scary thought… If you were a Liverpool fan, would you want to lose tonight and drop us into the relegation places, which would ultimately mean no Champions League next season, or want to win tonight and keep alive faint hopes of Champions League next season?

Obviously, the Liverpool players and Bingo will want the win, and I think, and hope, they will (washes mouth out with soapy water).

Come on you Rrrrrr………….Nah, I can't say it.

James Marshall
345 Posted 15/05/2023 at 10:01:18
It was a free hit – the only thing that mattered was not getting absolutely thrashed, and we did that.

3-0 wasn't ideal, a 1-goal game would have been nice, but it's gone now and this result isn't going to relegate us anyway.

We need to win one of our last 2 to stay up in my view. Win one and both Leeds & Leicester likely will need to win both their remaining games to overtake us. That's assuming Leicester lose to Liverpool tonight, which I think they will.

My biggest concern is not the game or result yesterday, but whether Calvert-Lewin is able to play and is fit for Wolves and Bournemouth. With him, we can play a bit, and score goals; without him, we're useless and can't score goals. Even a half-fit Calvert-Lewin is better than Maupay because of his hold-up play, and the balance he gives the team, especially when we play 2 full-backs.

Beat Wolves and/or Bournemouth and I feel we stay up.

Eddie Dunn
346 Posted 15/05/2023 at 10:05:36
Dyche has unfortunately made another selection error. He should have asked a few Evertonians whether Holgate would be a risk.

Every man, woman and their dog knew it was madness.
It also shows that, despite several moaners on here, Mykolenko has been pretty decent.

That aside, we played okay and, as others have said, 3points from those two games is satisfactory. If someone had said we would get two draws, I would have taken that every day.

We can make life a lot better for ourselves by winning at Wolves. I don't think a point there will be enough, as Bournemouth are quite capable of scoring goals and our stressed-out lads would be under huge pressure.

Let's all hope that Dom is fit. I suspect he already had a niggle and was risked for 45 minutes just in case we looked like nicking it. It is worth pumping him full of painkillers for the next two games as he will have all summer to recover.

My main worry is that West Ham will have their minds on the Europa Conference Final (if they get through the second leg) when they play Leeds on Saturday. Then there is the worry that Leeds finish off against Spurs at Elland Road... a team in limbo.

Leicester finish off against West Ham who might be in the Conference final just a few days after. It could mean that we will need to win both our games, as Leicester's goal difference is so superior to ours.

Let's pray that Liverpool give them a spanking tonight.

Barry Hesketh
347 Posted 15/05/2023 at 10:06:14
If Leicester lose their next two and Leeds lose next weekend whilst Everton win at Wolves then we're safe. Improbable perhaps but no more so than the pessimists saying all the teams around us will win their matches?

Yesterday was disappointing in the way we conceded two goals so close together, but City are on the brink of clinching their 5th title in 6 years, one more than Everton have won since the war.

Paul Hewitt
348 Posted 15/05/2023 at 10:06:34
In 2 weeks we will know the 3 relegated teams, if one's us then so be it. I won't cry about it or sulk just accept and look forward to next season.
Jim Lloyd
349 Posted 15/05/2023 at 10:23:18
Good post, Brian and especially liked the bit where you said you waited to the end to clap our lads off. Well done to all did the same. Our team deserved it, just as much as the 5-1 battering we gave Brighton. My worry was that City would run up a score nearing double figures, because that's how good they are.

I couldn't go because a dose of the lurgy,( again!) so sat in my B in Law's to watch the game unfold.

I thought we played as well as we could and every player tried their best. That's all we can ask of our players. Their goalie also pulled off a top class save or two and that means we were attacking where we could and worried their defence at times as well.

Couldn't help but think, that we stood up against a team who could have been ours and City could have been in our Club's shoes, except for the decision made, when Mansour came knocking, by our despicable absentee Chairman. Dive in Martin, if you wish, I might even respond to your blind love of mr K, who has ruined this Club.

Doucouré and CL both made top breakaways and Walker (didn't Moysie once go for him?) did a last gasp incerception on both? Certainly a very speedy man to have in the team.

I could look to our mistakes/weaknesses ; but it's more that they were clever and able enough to take advantage. In fact, they played just the kind of football I admire and I like the City Fans and are made up for them.

They had a shite Chairman as well, went down, 2 divisions, (I think it was) and supported their team right through all that. So good luck to them.

We've got two more games. Hopefully The Boss took CL off as a precaution and that he can play at least one of those games. The home game against Bournemouth for me.

Once again Brian, a good post!

Martin Mason
350 Posted 15/05/2023 at 10:37:06
Jim @349,

I really wish I could say something that would help your ignorance on issues regarding myself. Some things are beyond even me though.

Pete Clarke
351 Posted 15/05/2023 at 10:39:18
We are in a great position to help ourselves out of this without relying on others. We've had plenty of results go our way and that includes this weekend's.

I can see Leicester getting a hammering tonight which will do their confidence no good at all.

The one thing that came from last night's game was that we stuck at it and give it a good go. I agree with whoever said it that Pickford should have been onto that cross for Haaland's goal. He's a great shot-stopper but never dominates his area well. He is what he is, I suppose but I'd love him to be braver at crosses.

Final game of the season at home v Bournemouth, win or lose, up or down, there should be a major show of disapproval to this board (and owner) regarding our plight. Always a bit awkward if we win and stay up but banners can do that quietly.

We can't afford to go into next season with this same appalling leadership. Enough is enough and they have to go.

Lee Robinson
352 Posted 15/05/2023 at 10:53:10
The pitch fork mentality against some players is becoming a serious issue. It almost becomes fashionable to hound a certain player at one time or another. McNeal at the start of the season was the whipping boy getting called out on Sky News by evertonians, is a good example of how everyone was wrong, it was Iwobi for years and look how his form changed when fans started getting behind him.

Now Holgate is the chief whipping boy, with everyone repeating the same thing online as everyone else. As many have already thankfully stated, Holgate has been played out of position against a world class winger. Although he looked shaky, unsupirsingly given the tension and groans when he was on the ball, I may be wrong but how many goals was he at fault for against Palace and yesterday?

He is a good back up centre back and it looks like it's time for him to move on but I don't see the point in hammering the lad and destroying what little confidence is left, and people echoing the same s other people are saying about him.

Ray Roche
353 Posted 15/05/2023 at 10:55:40
Wolves have won their last four home games. Just sayin,,,,
Jim Lloyd
354 Posted 15/05/2023 at 10:56:05
You could make a start, Martin, I'm sure there's many more than me that would be entranced to hear those words of wisdom.
James Marshall
355 Posted 15/05/2023 at 11:23:17
Ray @353,

We won our last away game 5-1, so we can do it!

(Yes, this was me being positive, please make sure you're sitting down when reading.)

Rob Halligan
356 Posted 15/05/2023 at 11:34:31
Brighton had won three and drawn one of their last four home games, including thrashing Wolves 6-0, and also beating Man Utd. Just sayin…..
Ray Roche
357 Posted 15/05/2023 at 11:49:14
Rob, James,
Yes, we can do it and I hope that we do stuff Wolves, but I get the impression that some people think that we only have to turn up and the points are ours. If we don’t the pressure on the team versus Bournemouth will be of ‘Wimbledon’ proportions.
We owe Wolves one.
Brent Stephens
358 Posted 15/05/2023 at 11:52:37
All the "just saying" stats suggest a very close game.


Paul Cherrington
359 Posted 15/05/2023 at 11:58:32
I hoped we might get something from yesterday's game but not surprised we didn't. Man City are one of the best teams in the world so we have to be realistic about it, while still trying our best to give them a game.

One thing that I think needs some serious work over the summer is our habit of conceding multiple goals in a short space of time. Other games have seen us concede one and then let another one or two in over the next few minutes. It's a real problem as the game is away from you then, even if you had been in it beforehand.

Must be a concentration thing and players thinking too much about letting one in, rather than putting it behind them and moving on mentally. Needs sorting out though.

Martin Mason
360 Posted 15/05/2023 at 12:10:41
Jim@345 There are others on TW who, if they want anything from me, will ask sensibly and whom I'll answer in the same way. I have had and still do have a problem with stalkers like yourself but luckily they are down to just a couple of sad people. Bye Jim, wish I could say that it's being a pleasure.
Dave Abrahams
361 Posted 15/05/2023 at 12:25:34
Lee (352),

Yes, booing at the actual game serves no purpose, certainly doesn't help the players. I never do it myself at the game but feel like I have the right to criticise really poor performances on here.

The worst I saw and heard was when the crowd cheered when it was announced that Tom Cleverly was being substituted, that really stunk.

Raymond Fox
362 Posted 15/05/2023 at 12:59:41
If we stay up or not, the club needs a complete fresh start with new owners and board.
Lee Robinson
363 Posted 15/05/2023 at 13:23:25
Hi Dave @ 361, agreed.

And by the way, I have no issue with people critisicing perfomances on here, they are well within their rights, I do the same.

It's the pile on of certain players at certain times I find uncomfortable, and I'm not sure what good it brings. There's a lot of factors sometimes, being played out of position for one.

Martin Mason
364 Posted 15/05/2023 at 13:33:36
Lee, my thoughts on this are that criticising performance on here is within a person's rights providing that a justification is provided that can be challenged.

Saying "Mason Holgate is shit" isn't a criticism – only a very biased, unsubstantiated and valueless personal opinion.

Mick O'Malley
365 Posted 15/05/2023 at 14:00:48
I also thought Pickford was at fault with the 2nd and 3rd goals. He does concede a lot of goals from shots from outside of the area and all although he never done it yesterday, he constantly parries shots back into the danger area.

Granted he does pull off some fantastic reflex saves but we all know the next cock-up is just around the corner. I agree with Mike Price regarding Pickford: if someone comes in with a big bid for him, I'd sell him.

Eddie, I also agree with you regarding Mykolenko, he's nowhere near as bad as some make out. I like the lad, he never hides and gives it his all every single game. I wasn't expecting much from yesterday but especially when I saw Dyche's record against City: 15 losses and one draw from last 16 with 6 scored and 49 conceded.

Also, City have won here on their last 6 visits so it was always a very tall order to get anything. We must get at least a point at Wolves and beat Bournemouth at a packed and noisy Goodison. UTFT 💙

Jim Wilson
366 Posted 15/05/2023 at 14:03:33
Lee Robinson @ 352

I totally agree with you, mate. What the 'giving out stick' morons do not seem to realise is that having a go at a player does not help them to perform better and this ultimately doesn't help the team.

What these morons also don't seem to realise is that Holgate is not a full-back! To make it clear – he is not a full back, never will be.

And he most definitely is not a left-back. He is a central defender and the morons seem to have forgotten he was playing well in this position at the start of the season.

Dyche asked him to do a job and he did his best against an opponent and opposition that would have given anyone a hard time. Because Holgate is not a left-back, it was never going to end well.

Going back a few years, when Holgate first got into the team he was a very promising central defender but like so many of our players the club and manager after manager have managed to ruin him.

So ignore the morons Mason and good luck to you, I am sure another club would be glad to have you, and in the long run it will be our loss.

The problem for the City game was the cub had no fucking cover for the left back position. Godfrey is injury prone, Vinagre was injured and the other left sided player is one of 3 loan players that we need here. Pathetic club management. That is the problem not Mason Holgate!

Christy Ring
367 Posted 15/05/2023 at 14:15:16
Holgate is a centre-back, he's not a left- or right-back. Whether you rate him as a centre-back, that's your choice, but to boo a player who never played left-back against a top winger in Mahrez was totally unacceptable in my opinion.

Godfrey, another centre-back who is been abused, also isn't a full-back. If Mykolenko is out for Saturday, the only natural left-footed player is McNeil, play him at left-back, with Gray ahead of him. We have no-one else with our only other left-back out on loan, another cock-up by our great board

Dale Self
368 Posted 15/05/2023 at 14:22:29
So going into the Brighton and Man City matches, who had us getting 3 points with an overall positive contribution to goal difference?

Okay if you didn't but shouldn't a reasonable poster go through that hoop to offer any other criticism or fear?

That's 'poster', not 'poser'.

Mark Murphy
369 Posted 15/05/2023 at 14:39:17
A take of two Masons…(and 2 Jims as it goes):

1. Mason Holgate. As Jim Wilson correctly says, and as we used to agree: “Something tells me Holgate's a centre-half.” I'm not his biggest fan but he was hung out to dry there on Sunday. Cut him some slack.

2. Martin Mason. He's a big lad who can defend himself on here anyway but I've been the match with him several times now and there are some wildly incorrect assumptions about him being made on here.


Will Mabon
370 Posted 15/05/2023 at 15:00:13

From what I saw, McNeil did play left-back at least 3 times yesterday plus one go at centre-half. He covered all over the place.

Brian Wilkinson
371 Posted 15/05/2023 at 15:30:32
We hung Godfrey out to dry playing him as a right back, same could be said about Holgate, but I still stand by my earlier post that for me Holgate is not a decent defender, I will say he seems to be a better player in a slightly further upfield position and has played some of his better football, playing in that position.

But if we learned three things this season, 1 is Godfrey is not a right back, 2 Holgate is not a left back, and 3 McNeil is not a right winger.

Our club has made such a mess of it that we have let two players leave for peanuts, Price and Nkounkou who will leave for a couple of Million pre agreed price.

I did bump into John Bailey as usual before the match, I wish he had had his boots with him to play at left back.

Relax tongue in cheek about Bailey doing a better job on Sunday.

Jim Lloyd
372 Posted 15/05/2023 at 15:39:06
Agreed Brian, in the elder days (mine) he'd be a decent right or left half, whatever equiv nowadays ain't got a clue. I think Nkounkou would be much better attacking than defending, and wished we'd have kept him.

Christy spot on. These lads are professionas, but they're lads, generally in their 20's or younger. What on earth does booing do? except destroy any confidence our lads have and boosts the opposition's confidence...geniuses!!

Jim Lloyd
373 Posted 15/05/2023 at 15:44:43
I'm not asking anything from you, Martin, as your posts have never, as far as I can tell, given any constructive critique of my criticism of Kenwright.

By all means, put up a sensible defence of Kenwright's tenure as Chairman of our poor benighted, once-great club. Happy to see you provide either.

Jim Lloyd
374 Posted 15/05/2023 at 15:59:47
ps: Martin, I've never stalked you until I once asked you to pull apart my criticism of Kenwright. I might have missed it by the way.

Have you ever replied to a criticism by me of this pest, except to call my post the silliest you've seen, without, forgive me if I've missed it, giving any detail whatsoever, of where I've put in any lies or inaccuracies.

As far as I'm concerned, you seem to dislike critcism of him by me. Tough shit. I think he's led our club to the verge of ruination. Just pulled that out the air, by the way, don't know what made me think that!

Tom Bowers
375 Posted 15/05/2023 at 16:00:45
With the class that City had in depth, we didn't have a snowball's chance in hell of winning and, even if we had just played eleven in our own half all game, we may still have not gotten a point.

They have so many match winners and we have none despite winning one or two games we weren't supposed to.

We have been a shit squad all season and now need to hope that neither Wolves nor Bournemouth give a toss about the games against Everton.

Sadly it has all come down to this juncture with the hope also that RS don't do Leicester any favours today but quite frankly nobody can deny that we deserve relegation after some of the pitiful performances we have seen, especially at Goodison.

If they get lucky and stay up, then one hopes there will be a drastic overhaul of playing personnel for next season.

Jim Lloyd
376 Posted 15/05/2023 at 16:14:29
Martin (360) Sorry.

I didn't see your post with the good news.

Otherwise, I wouldn't have bothered with 373 and 374.

Raymond Fox
378 Posted 15/05/2023 at 19:13:39
With regards Holgate, Mahrez can make the best full-backs in the world look silly.

Ability wise he's only a whisker behind Haaland and De Bruyne for me, he's a proper player.

Martin Mason
379 Posted 15/05/2023 at 19:24:19
He's better in his own role. Playing a centre-back against him wasn't his fault, it was the club's.

Sorry, I mean he's shit.

Jim Lloyd
380 Posted 15/05/2023 at 19:31:31
Mahrez has been a great buy for Man City. He was top class at Leicester City but with Man City he's got limitless options and he's a bloody good goalscorer, from free kicks or open play. A great buy.

I wonder if Walshy got him, as he did other top class players, including Vardy. Not bad for a duff DoF. I wonder who picked our "DoF" players during Walsh's time...

Andrew McLawrence
381 Posted 15/05/2023 at 19:52:35
I have this terrible feeling that Leicester will beat the red shite tonight!
Bobby Mallon
382 Posted 15/05/2023 at 20:37:36
0.2 to red shite
Christine Foster
383 Posted 15/05/2023 at 21:35:07
Holgate is a talented footballer with one major flaw, he switches off. Ends up ball-watching rather than doing. The result, at this level, is almost always catastrophic.

Doesn't seem to matter where he plays, these momentary lapses leave him in either the wrong position or making the wrong decision. Playing against world class players who take apart those with lesser skills, they probe those who show weakness.

It's a flaw Holgate cannot rectify and sadly for him, and us, it's likely to mean his imminent departure to a club that can accommodate him. He is not a passenger, but he is a weakness.

Mark Ryan
384 Posted 15/05/2023 at 21:46:21
Talented at what level, though, Christine? His talent is not Premier League level.

I feel you are being very generous, which is your prerogative, of course, but you say it will be sad for us that his departure is likely to be imminent. I won't be sad at all.

I would have been delighted had he left 3 seasons ago. A truly dreadful career to date and the sooner he drops to League One the better.

I look at the money he is earning at our club and I'm staggered. I've been watching Everton since a boy back in the '60s and he's right up there with some of the worst we have ever had.

Mike Price
385 Posted 15/05/2023 at 22:14:14
Jim Lloyd #380 it’s a myth that Walsh was responsible for Vardy and Mahrez. He rode that myth all the way to a life changing amount of money at the biggest suckers in world football. He was a disaster.
Christy Ring
386 Posted 15/05/2023 at 22:22:25
I agree with Christine, he lacks concentration. He had established himself in the first team, and touted for England, and rumours that the top scouts were watching him. There is a player in there, good enough for the Premiership, but lack of playing time, and playing him at right and left back, will sap his confidence. I actually thought in his couple of games as defensive midfielder, he impressed me. He's definitely not up there with the worst we ever had.
Christine Foster
388 Posted 15/05/2023 at 22:53:29
Mark, Holgate has all the attributes of a good footballer skill wise, but without they ability to read "what happens if" doesn't seem to make any difference where he plays, although he did play better under Ancelotti, but looking at him when he came off said it all, he buried his head under his shirt, his confidence was shot. In fairness he was out of position and for us to expect a player to perform as though he had always played there is unrealistic especially against the best team in the league if not the world club game at the moment.
But even at his best position of centre back the truth is he cannot command the back four nor command the six yard box in the air.
He is a John Stones type of player, not great in the air, better on the deck, but needs to show the needed awareness to be a EPL centre back / defender. Thats why its sad but he is not the player we need at the moment. If he could get his head right and play in a team without the pressure, his confidence will return.. but thats not where we are.
Jerome Shields
389 Posted 15/05/2023 at 22:59:36
Christy, at one stage, Holgate was one of our better defenders, with better distribution from defence than any other defender. He then got injured and was never able to regain that standard, often being used as a makeshift defender as you say.

IMO, once a player spends more than the required time at Finch Farm, he either struggles with injury or is below the par of his previous performance standards. Just the byproduct of a poorly run club.

I agree, he does impress as a defensive midfielder.

Don Alexander
390 Posted 15/05/2023 at 23:35:53
Holgate when we signed him from Sheff Utd Barnsley impressed me at least as much as Stones had when we signed him from the same club.

The Finch Farm Footballer Fuckup Factory, staffed and created decades ago by Kenwright, has since reduced him to the mediocre, as it does with almost every other promising talented player.

And, apart from our version of Dumb and Dumber, everyone else in football knew Steve Walsh at Leicester rarely got off his arse to seek out talent, relying instead on talented scouts to bring the likes of Vardy, Mahrez, Kante etc etc his attention from distant places.

The story was the same at Southampton. We signed Koeman but failed to see what everyone else in football saw, namely that, way before Koeman got that job, a certain Les Reid had bought excellent players at modest cost before repeatedly making massive profits for that club when they were sold on to "bigger" clubs. I'm talking about the likes of Bale, Mane, Van Dijke, Lallana.

Not Klaassen, Bolasie, Schneiderlin and Keane, of course.

David Currie
391 Posted 15/05/2023 at 00:14:26
Don 390,

Holgate and Stones were signed from Barnsley.

Mark 384,

A truly dreadful career? 20 games for Barnsley 1 goal.
Everton sign him for 2 million and he has played about 130 games 3 goals. 8 games for England U 20 team and 6 games for the U 21 team.

Wish to God I would have had his career, I would have crawled over broken glass for it.

Holgate was not at fault for any of the goals scored by Man City – just trying his best in a position not suited to him and up against a top-class player.

Don Alexander
392 Posted 16/05/2023 at 00:52:41
David (#391), well done mate, you spotted my deliberate error re Barnsley/Sheff Utd.

I'm going to increase my dose of anti-amnesia tablets from now on though!

All the best.

Jerome Shields
393 Posted 16/05/2023 at 08:09:33
Mike #385,

Actually I always thought that Steve Walsh was especially good at sourcing players. He was unfortunate at Everton that he had to work with the reputable "haven't got a clue" Koeman and Transfer Mugs Kenwright and Moshiri. Kenwright always got his dinner though, as if he needed it.

He did bring in Mahrez, Vardy and Kunti for Leicester City. For Everton, Gueye was one of his finds. Everton rejected his other finds, Andy Robertson, Harry Maguire and Ering Haaland, for a combined total of £24 million.

He had nothing to do with the return of Rooney, but did suggest Big Sam, though he did bow to his wimps with Tosun and Walcott. In hindsight, maybe he was right regarding Big Sam, though greed would have got the better of Big Sam in Everton's managed Den of Inequity.

Mark Ryan
394 Posted 16/05/2023 at 08:20:32
He's been rubbish for 3 seasons. I'm not interested in having a player who once played for England U21s or did well at Barnsley, Sheffield, Crewe or Partick Thistle. For 3 seasons, he's been garbage for us. He's not what I want to pay to see.

I hope to God he's not playing for the remaining 2 games but it's only my opinion. Seems I might be in the minority but for me he's a massively weak link.

Danny O’Neill
395 Posted 16/05/2023 at 10:14:56
Ian Edwards,

Where does this happy clapper accusation come from?

I cheer and clap when Everton win or when they perform well, as they generally did on Sunday.

I was happy clapping last Monday when that 5th goal when in at the far end at Brighton.

Do I ignore the issues with the club? No. But I follow and support that team, just as we all have since we can remember.

It doesn't make us happy clappers.

I stood and gave them both barrels at Brentford and Norwich away last season.

Happy clappers?


Passionate supporters that follow our team all over the country and support them. Yes.

David Currie
396 Posted 16/05/2023 at 16:20:37
Mark 394,
I also hope Holgate isn't playing for the last 2 games, I was defending the fact that you said he has had a truly dreadful career. Playing well over 100 games in the Premier League cannot be dreadful and a top manager like Carlo picked him many times.
Dale Self
397 Posted 16/05/2023 at 16:38:43
I’m thinking back to some curious selections and omissions by Dyche and I think I see an pattern. Dyche is not a believer in free roles and tries not to select players out of position. When he has to it is a player that is a bit of a misfit who gets the job. The theory being we have some decent players who’ve been undone by serial bad selections.

The use of Godfrey and Holgate fit this speculative view. Waiting on Patterson also indicates a dedicated method for building up players’ skills with the same or similar teammates in adjacent positions.

Just a thought since we can’t fully evaluate the player separate from the other factors to know if they are singularly shit or symptomatic of a system problem.

Joe McMahon
398 Posted 16/05/2023 at 16:59:41
Dale, I agree and I feel it also bad for player development, including so many managers and different training staff every few months. I feel Godfrey has gone backwards and Tom Davies was probably not good enough in the first place but hasn't had regular football since "that goal' v City 6 years ago.

His career has been wasted at whatever level he's suited best at.

Mark Ryan
399 Posted 16/05/2023 at 17:00:33
David @ 396, I agree that 100 PL games is some achievement in life and if he were my son or daughter I'd be very proud of course but when I look back over the past 3-4 seasons I cannot remember a game where I thought " that lad puts in a shift" or even " he tried his best and gives his all"
I think he lacks grit, he lacks guile, he lacks a footballing brain. Its not his fault that he was selected out of position but I'd sooner see someone like Coady who will give his all and perhaps fail rather than someone who appears to float in and out of a game. I'd be willing to sit through a sports reel of all of Holgates Everton highlights if it would convince me to change my mind but I suspect it would be very brief. I put him the same bracket as Schneiderlin. Has some latent ability but cannot be arsed to turn it on.
Peter Carpenter
400 Posted 16/05/2023 at 17:22:14
Mark, he played in all of the last 7 matches last season, scoring once.

Would you say he lacked grit, failed to put in a shift, didn't try his best and didn't give his all in those matches?

And what specifically have you seen that makes you think he 'cannot be arsed?'

Martin Mason
401 Posted 16/05/2023 at 17:35:08
I think that he's a very good CB by any standards, he's a proven good RB and that makes him a top player. He had a bad game at LB against city? Understandable but not true really. Can't be arsed? No professional footballer can be accused of that because they prove that isn't true by getting to the top of their profession.
Brent Stephens
402 Posted 16/05/2023 at 18:16:55
Dale, #397 that theory makes a lot of sense.
Mark Ryan
403 Posted 16/05/2023 at 18:27:47
We'll have to agree to disagree on Holgate. I think he's garbage end of. I can't re watch all his endeavours from last season Peter. Yes, I think he did play in most of our games last season but I thought by and large we were appalling to watch not just him mind, the whole team. We were crap, he was one of the main offenders. We'll have to agree to disagree Peter
Mike Connolly
404 Posted 16/05/2023 at 19:04:54
you cant fault Holgate self confidence. From where I was sitting Holgate made another bad mistake. I could see Dyche shouting to Cody, who was warming up to get changed. When the boards went up for the subs Holgate was by the touch line and said me. Everyone in the ground new it was him to come off Except himself
Brian Wilkinson
405 Posted 16/05/2023 at 19:48:21
I have been in the Iwobi camp and was happy for him to sign a new contract; however, his "I will wait until the summer", unless I am reading this wrong, "as I am waiting to see if Everton stay up first before signing a new contract."

If that is the case, I would not offer him a new contract. He is part of the team that put us where we are now, if he is not prepared to fight to get us back up again, should the unthinkable happen, then get rid.

Peter Carpenter
406 Posted 16/05/2023 at 20:14:43
We'll certainly have to do that, Mark. But just a glance at those last few matches will tell you he was one of those who stepped forward when we were in deep shit last season and helped us out of it.

He didn't lack any of those things you listed then and those who are criticising him now should at least give him credit for that.

Billy Shears
407 Posted 16/05/2023 at 20:34:25
A bridge too far, it would seem.

I aam still hopeful that our lads can save us.


Mike Price
408 Posted 16/05/2023 at 23:50:55
Jerome #393,

I don't know whether this thread is still alive but I have to tell you I know people who have worked at the club for a long time. I met Walsh and the 2nd hand car salesman – incompetent vibes, plus the bad suit were off the charts!
He rode the Vardy & Mahrez wave with very little to do with it. I don't blame him, who wouldn't? Only this regime would buy into it though, utterly clueless and incompetent.

Unfortunately we don't hire very good people; that's why we all want the board removed as soon as possible.

Dan Parker
409 Posted 16/05/2023 at 23:55:46
Agree Mike. I think Dyche is the right guy though. He’s not playing boring defensive football by any means.
Ben King
410 Posted 17/05/2023 at 00:15:38
Mark Ryan,

Is it not possible you're confusing ‘crap' with ‘can't be arsed'?

There is no way Dyche would be playing anyone that 'can't be arsed'. That's not his modus operandi and he doesn't suffer fools gladly. I'm sorry, mate, but I'll take a top-level manager's opinion over yours on this.

However, Holgate is a below-average Premier League footballer. Like his mate Michael Keane, he's simply not very good.

So that for you may be a crime (fair enough) but the 'can't be arsed' comment doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

Tony Abrahams
411 Posted 17/05/2023 at 07:08:50
I honestly can't believe that Dyche hasn't got us to at least mid-table by now considering the squad he inherited.

Christy Ring
412 Posted 17/05/2023 at 11:28:02
If Calvert-Lewin is out for Saturday, he'll be a massive loss, as we saw against Leicester and Brighton, he was the focal point, and our counter-attacking game was superb.

I don't even want to think if Maupay starts ahead of him, all I'll say is that the board refusing to sign anyone in January, especially a striker, after getting over £40M for Gordon and not replacing him either.

If Mykolenko is also out, oh yeah, we have no other left-back either, the consequences could be huge, and it's totally down to their incompetence.

To rub salt in the wounds, our chairman who believes he's bigger than the club, had the absolute audacity to criticise the fans the day before the massive game against Leicester.

Kevin Molloy
413 Posted 17/05/2023 at 11:34:12
The word on Hammers websites is that, if they get to the final, Moyes is planning a similar approach to what he did in the previous game when they played Brentford, where he left nine first teamers out of the side.

Another reason to cheer on AZ on Thursday...

Brian Harrison
414 Posted 17/05/2023 at 11:37:38

You are right that Calvert-Lewin is key to how we get the best from this team, he is the only main striker who can hold the ball up which allows others to join the attack. The problem with Maupay is the other players don't trust him to hold the ball when it's played to him, so they are reluctant to make forward runs for fear of being out of position.

But going back to last season, Richarlison said that he had pain-killing injections so he could play in the final few games, and given our lack of options, it may well be what Calvert-Lewin might have to do.

Just to be clear, I am not an advocate of players having pain-killing injections, but the fact that Calvert-Lewin wanted to come out for the 2nd half suggests it's not that serious. Hopefully it clears up and doesn't hamper him.

Kevin Molloy
415 Posted 17/05/2023 at 11:39:51

We seemed to be in pretty good shape until Doucoure got his marching orders. The wheels came off and we ignored the claims of Mina and Patterson and stuck with Keane and Godfrey. Two very bad decisions.

Christy Ring
416 Posted 17/05/2023 at 12:57:08
Brian #414 Agree, if he's able to play on, we definitely have no choice. What I noticed about Maupay, his first touch is also poor anyway.

I hope the Hammers lose on Thursday night but, if they win, the final is 3 weeks away and this will probably be Rice's last home game, and Moyes won't want to lose, because his job is not exactly safe either.

Tony Abrahams
417 Posted 17/05/2023 at 13:39:06
I would also add - and what possessed Dyche to play 4-4-2 at United, and then the following week at home to Fulham, Kevin, especially because I also thought he had began to get us into a much better shape than we had been in for at least 18 months, until he made the choices we both mention.

If he keeps us up though, it cannot be underestimated imo, even if this is partly due to there being some very poor teams in the Premier League this season.

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