Everton U21s win at Harrogate in Papa John's EFL Trophy

It states on the Everton website that this game can be watched by Official members and season ticket holders, both are mentioned twice but when I try and log into the site, as a season ticket holder it just gives information to members or fans who want to become members; I don't.

It seems to me they are just trying to get more fans to join the members club. It's no big deal to be honest but why advertise you can watch the game but not give you any way to do so. Work your magic, Michael, and have a word with them!!

I hate it when you have trouble enjoying the free gifts bestowed upon you by our beloved club.

Let's see if we can troubleshoot this...

Go the Offical Site and click on NEWS to get a little drop-down menu – select UNDER-21S

Second story in (at the moment) is Members Only: Live Stream For Under-21s' Cup Clash – click on that.

When the page comes up, look in the top right corner. It should already say DAVE and your 7-digit membership number – this would mean you're already logged in.

(If it says in the top right corner, LOGIN OR REGISTER, only then do you need to, er... Login or Register. I'm not helping you with that.)

Now the hard bit: Sit tight and wait patiently until 6:58 pm or thereabouts, then scroll down on that page (do not click on any of the links!!!) but instead click on the big lower graphic that should have a Play arrow on it.

That should change to a video window and give you personal access to a live stream of the game.

Dave?

DAVE!!!!

Oh, nevermind, it's only a bunch of bloody Ads.

Mills, Price, Quirk, Koyate

Whittaker and Cannon

I think Snods said Mills and Whitaker appeared to start on the wings.

Great start!

I suppose I can understand why (judging from these threads) so few are interested in watching the U21s. The quality is not great. The standard of footie is not great. The games are a very hard watch.

And considering we struggled for most of the second half against a side that is floundering at 20th in League Two, that really brings home the huge size of the step up from U21s to Premier League.

Occasional calls for the likes of Cannon to be given a go in the first team ("He couldn't be any worse than...") are well-intentioned but highly optimistic.

On other notes, did any of our boys stand out? How did Mills perform aside from the goal?

And you've got a great point there, Rob. My tirades against the loan system are somewhat undermined by this observation. I feel well and truly Kwartenged.

This season, we have 15 players out on loan – not quite up to Chelsea's level but that's the most I can ever remember for us.

I thought "He couldn't be any worse than" was forever banned as a suggestion after that game when we decided to give Per Kroldrup a run out.

Michael, I have to smile at the label "Kamikwasi Kwarteng" which some are starting to use. Hubris - Nemesis…

I think the numbers in previous seasons were 11, 13, 7, 8 – something like that, but in some cases, a good number of those were only half-season loans, whereas I think we're committed to full seasons on all 15 this time.

But perhaps some may have a mid-season review option for recall that we could activate if they are not being utilized. Not sure if this is per individual agreement or if the League(s) have rules?

And not seen that Kwarteng jibe — pretty funny!

You are spot on with the gap between U21 & First Team. Thus, I have always been a strong supporter on that youngsters who are likely to "make it" (e.g. the likes of Welch & Cannon) should only spend 1 season each at U18 & U21 and head out on loans right afterwards (Welch's new contract has him well placed for that), ideally 2 full seasons with Football League Clubs who can provide them with 3000+ minutes a season of playing time.

Playing in the Football League every week at hostile locations half of the time against established pros who fight for their next contracts every game is exactly the tonic needed to make the youngsters' bones. I'm very glad that Thelwell has finally created such a well-overdue structure for our hopefuls (starting with Simms, Dobbin, Warrington, Onyango), with James Vaughan specifically looking after them as the nanny.

Very good points though on the gulf between U21s and the step up to the first team from those who did.

It's why I am always more cautious when a player comes through. Like Lewis Warrington, I didn't call for him to be in the first team, just closer to it. With the majority, you have to ease them in rather than throw them in. Even if that means sending them out on loan for experience. I knew we'd sent a few out but didn't realise that many.

You'll get the odd Rooney who is ready straight away, but they are few and far between; unique.

Coach them, teach them, mentor them and gradually bring them in. Otherwise, we end up with the next Tom Davies, Ross Barkley and Jack Rodwell, touted as the next greatest thing; too much expectation on young shoulders.

Dare I say John Ebbrell, who many had high hopes for because he'd starred for England at youth and U21 level. If the memory serves, wasn't he captain?

Good to get the honest and sensible views of Michael and Brent who watch and calm the clamour to "play the kids" for the sake of it because they see it. Doing so could ruin half of them before they've even started.

Let's leave that decision to the coaches at Finch Farm. At least we can now have a bit more faith in that set up.

This is obviously why this tournament has been invented, to give these younger players more experience, but I'm not convinced they got it right when they got rid of the old Central League.

. Yet more good experience for our youngsters and even the penalty taking adds to that experience. It was good to see Ishe Samuels-Smith starting, he's got a very bright future, hopefully with us. And Roman Dixon too, I think this may have been his first u21 appearance since he made a then u23s appearance as a schoolboy about 18 months ago. He's a fast, powerful, driving, right back who scored a cracking length of the pitch goal for the u18s against City last Saturday. It's well worth a watch.

I constantly make the point about a blend of youth and experience making a team.

Tony, you put it really well. A full team of kids playing a team of players playing in a competitive league no doubt with experience smattered throughout.

I haven't been a fan of the U23 construct. I wasn't a fan of the old Central League.

But maybe the latter offered that blend. I'll go back to a point I've raised a few times. Maybe that sort of thing but as a B Team competing in the lower leagues? And by B Team, not just the younger players.

Even if we done it through a proxy club. It would help them as much as blooding our own players in a competitive environment and league. I don't know, for Everton it could be one of the nearby teams such as Chester (plucked that out of the air). Leeds could certainly adopt Harrogate as, having spent 2 years there, it's full of Leeds supporters.

I know it would be unrealistic to have the model that exists in other countries, but I'd really like it to be explored. Not that I expect it to, but I'll keep saying it.

When we had some older players for the U23's who would act as senior figures for the younger ones we said Unsworth was blocking the paths of the younger ones.

When we don't have older U23 players, we say we need a blend to compete fairly against experienced professionals.

Quite the conundrum

All of them are now too good for u21s football though, it's a waste of their time.

People argue Simms should have been retained but he'd be on the bench now behind Maupay.

So the loan system is doing the job Dupont describes. Giving people valuable experience to either toughen them up or, as in the case of Branthwaite, play in a more sophisticated way on offer in the Championship.

It may not be as good as the old reserves or central league or whatever but they are consigned to history.

For those still in the u21s, these games against Harrogate etc are part of a decent learning curve. But once they have settled in at this level the loan will be the next step up unless they are of the quality of say Saka, Foden, Greenwood etc who were first team quality at 17 / 18.