Uninspiring display at the Bridge for the Toffees

The season is ebbing out now and, apart from the sentimental last two games at Goodison (which knowing us we'll manage to underperform in), we need it to end ASAP.

We need an overhaul of the squad this summer with some serious attacking signings that can offer some punch going forward.

Overall, a poor season, poor win return, and a poor goal return, just another very Everton season.

I hope we do back Moyes this summer because, if not, I think we can't really progress even to mid-table the way we are.

Pickford - solid as always. I thought O'Brien and Branthwaite did well together, Branthwaite was outstanding at times.

Patterson isn't good enough. Mykolenko did well but he's pretty limited as a footballer. Gana was solid and tidy. Garner looked poor.

Harrison – why do we persist?!?!? Ndiaye – okay but nothing of note. Should have stayed on though and not Harrison. Doucouré – poor again today. Ran a lot but rubbish with the ball.

Beto – apart from giving the ball away for their goal, I thought he did okay with little service.

Subs:

McNeil – why play him on the right?!? I think he'd have been better on the left in a combo with Mykolenko. Did poorly tbh.
Alcaraz – I'm not convinced about signing him; he doesn't offer much. Ashley Young did okay but offered nothing going forwards. Chermitti offered nothing

We all know that the squad needs an overhaul but I worry about how many players we need to be competitive with the amount of contracts done this summer. Big job for Moyes as we need to get players in early for pre-season to bed them in quickly.

I agree with all that apart from Alcaraz, but as you say, that still leaves a massive task to rebuild from limited foundations.

I agree with all you say there, but Everton have rarely brought new players in early, normally last-minute scrambles to get transfers over the line.

Not conducive to building for the new season. Hope that changes!

The rest was a mish-mash of individiuals spluttering about.

Let's see what the Ipswich game brings in terms of improved performance and goals.

Pre-match warm-ups and drills: The first 11 (10 outfield) warm up separately with a five vs five of keep-ball. They looked very sharp. Then the back four do a drill with Baines firing a ball in to another coach or over the top. The back four move up in unison, try to nick the ball before the target, or play the ball amongst them, until the target is beaten and they return the ball to Baines.

We looked very good at this and well drilled. Chelsea did the same drills as us but with that last one they didn't have a target and just pinged it to their back four to pass about and pass back.

Moyes watches our drills intently. At half-time, the subs come out with a coach and “ping” the ball to each other and do some short shuttle runs. They looked very ones I recognised were Michael Keane, Dwight McNeil, Tim Iroegbrunam and Youssef Chermiti.

To be generous, they looked like half-arsed 12-year-olds having a kick about. If Moyes had been watching that, I doubt they would've got on the pitch that second half.

Alcaraz was also on their doing shuttle runs. He looked heavy and ponderous (although he did look better when he came on).

Seamus Coleman was constantly warming up along the touch line but is obviously not fit and “carrying” a leg. I don't know if that's a long-term result of his leg break or if he's just not yet fit, but I can't imagine him playing anytime before the Southampton game.

All in all, we were not a mismatch for this Chelsea side but quality counts and I doubt any of our players bar Pickford would get in their team.

We could've nicked something – with better quality forwards, we would've.

I agree and don't know why he played McNeil on the right, even though I thought he did well.

What I can't understand is why he didn't leave Ndiaye on, because Harrison offered absolutely nothing.

We improved after the interval with this week's substitutions making a more positive impact than last week's. But, until we have more players capable of creating chances and scoring goals, we are destined to struggle against most opponents.

Stats on Moyes's teams winning against the top teams remain the same. When he started back, things did look promising with a high press attacking formation with a engaged midfield.

But he has reverted to type putting out a hardworking negative formation and only going partially positive to retrieve something from the game when Everton have fallen behind. The engaged midfield trio has disappeared, preferring a headless Doucoure who can't pass.

Any players brought in will be to enhance Moyes's system. We may be lucky and get a Rice, McGinn, Madison or Bowen, but it won't change the system of play or Moyes's game management.

I do think that TFG know this and are restructuring recruitment to manage Moyes and prepare for another manager if necessary.

I wish it were different.

2-0 up and absolutely cruising yet feels in some ways like we've regressed again to November since then.

Might just be me but I feel like much of it also has coincided with Lindstrom missing.

Harrison and McNeil on the flanks kills me, it killed me last season and having to watch it again this season – it's soul destroying as both of them are as slow as a wet bank holiday weekend.

Me personally, I feel that there is nothing to look forward to except the final home game – for the atmosphere, not necessarily the match – and the arrival at the new stadium. I want us to go out and win these final games with some gusto and fucking pride; but the way these last few matches have been, it'll end with a pop like a flat champagne cork.

Moyes has indeed reverted to type, keeping faith with players who don't live up to that faith – Doucoure and Harrison, added to that Beto but could/would he have played better with Alcaraz and not Doucoure?

To read some posts, you feel like apart from Branthwaite Pickford, O'Brien, Ndiaye and Alcaraz, not many are worth keeping, it's pretty much a massive overhaul.

Had this been the Everton of old, the deadwood would be given massive contracts to keep them. Hopefully with this new regime, the old Everton is dead and – barring PSR or whatever – we have the financial clout to get in some decent players to add to those aforementioned five and let the deadwood float off elsewhere.

Let's hope Moyes changes it up for these final matches and shows some balls and has a go; otherwise, I can see us limping down to 17th and we'll all be angry but relieved the season is over and a new era beckons.

Every time we had the ball at our feet, they nicked it off us from behind, really poor. Beto's lack of skill on the ball finally displayed his limitations.

Patterson was the target for most of their attacks but he got no support from Harrison in supporting back. Mykolenko tried his best but was constantly bullied off the ball, similar to most of the team.

I'm not sure anyone came out of this with any praise and may just have sealed the futures for many of those that started today.

The modern game hey, low block, high press turnovers, transitions – all words from so-called experts. Nah, sorry… not for me.

The Man United game was the turning point. Moyes's negative substitutions, because of fear, handed the game to them. Lindstrom was a playmaker who could pass. Moyes was able to play him in, which Dyche could never have done.

But Moyes has not adjusted tactically for playmaking. Box-to-box Doucoure is all we get.

He’ll guarantee us us safety but, with few exceptions, don’t expect to be entertained.

Chelsea have been dreadful this season.

The fact that they are 4th speaks volumes for how bad the Premier League is regardless of what the media will bullshit us as the best in the world.

Ipswich recently went to Stamford Bridge and owned the pitch for an hour and were 2-0 up.

We didn't lay a glove on them until the last 15 minutes.

It used to be the best league in the world, but I'd say for the last few years it's gone downhill. I much prefer the German Leagues, even La Liga.

Chelsea were at home, they are in 5th with now 60 poins, while we have 38 points from 34 games.

Some of the criticism is over the top and unrealistic, it's been obvious all season that the team is only just good enough to survive.

Even Chelsea fans would agree with you. Liverpool may win the Premier League by default, because the other teams are poor.

One said to me that good old Moyes bottled the tactics as usual.

What can Friedkin do or say about it, though — given his deafening silence thus far?

I think playing all our games away may help. We have actually won more games away than at home since Moyes returned. We have not won a home game against a team from the top half of the table all season.

Chelsea have been Jekyll and Hyde not just ‘dreadful'. They have generally been better at home and have some really classy players.

English clubs have done pretty well overall in Europe this year. That couldn't happen if the quality was plummeting.

Some of the mid table clubs have improved their top level capability and can sometimes really put it all together.

We have the same squad, a very average group on the whole. We weren't suddenly going to beat Liverpool, Man City, Chelsea. We aren't good enough.

We've given them all a good game, probably deserved more in all of those games, but we have to play to our strengths, defence and organisation first.

We'd all like a progressive, front-foot attack-minded team, but it won't happen overnight and not with this squad of players. We don't have the quality. We are not a team full of goals and our forwards barely have a goal in them.

Let's see what the Summer has in store. We are forced into a significant squad change. Let's judge things after that.

So what are we paying the RS Adans for exactly?

With Beto, there is more uncertainty about positioning, like what Keith said above. Until the middle of the second half, they could not get the ball to the final third with numbers advantage and Ndiaye did not open anything on the left.

Without some sure-footed possession up front, we could not get lines all moving into support. Then as the game opens up to suit Beto, and he gets a decent shot, he is subbed. He wasn't in good form but received hardly any service.

It is in a frustrating place until the transfer business happens. Moyes may have maxed out this squad and secured safety at the expense of injuries.

He hasn't had enough time to cobble together something stylish, and we see stuff on the pitch that looks like OFM II. This may not be down to him, considering players on their way out must be relied on.

I'm in the 'let him build some foundations for the next one' camp but I am still impressed that he got what he did at that time from this squad.

How any one can say Alcaraz offers nothing obviously isn't watching, the lad is the only one with a clue.

Garner was absolutely hopeless again. Doucouré, Harrison… I'm sick of watching these spoilers.

Thank god the season is nearly over and I can concentrate on the Rugby League; football is becoming boring.

Totally agree about Garner. He was awful today and his only decent game since he came back was his first.

He's like Samways. He looks busy but does not do a great deal. Scott Gemmill was better.

I totally agree that the Premier League is overrated. It is hyped up in order to maintain advertising and TV revenues but much of the content is pretty boring and the quality is patchy compared with other European leagues.

However, Chelsea have not been dreadful. They have underperformed this season and should have been challenging for the title. But they are still odds on for a Champions League spot. And they have absolutely bags of talent.

Ipswich owned them for a good chunk of the match recently. Yes, they did. It's that approach that impresses me so much about them – and why I was keen to stick with Dyche and then get McKenna this summer.

However, Ipswich have a much more talented attack than we do – with Enciso, Delap, Hutchison and Philogene. They are going down because they can't defend. We have only Ndiaye in this league.

If you bring McKenna in at Everton with this group of players, you'll probably get better football – but you're going to ship loads of goals. We have a really crap squad.

Moyes slowly recreating the narrative of how lucky we should be to have him.

These are absolute gimmies every season, I'd have expected at least 4 goals a match, and at least 3 of those being Goal of the Month contenders.

We are just such an impressive attacking unit. How Moyes hasn't unleashed that quality in 4 months is beyond me.

Get Moyes out, and another manager in, and quick. Looking forward to the title next season, it sounds so fucking easy — we will have it done by Christmas.

Beto we know is crap, and we overpaid for, lost the ball for their only goal, and didn't put away his chance when it came through. Same as McNeil. That's not Moyes, that's shit players.

I can't see how this is a Moyes problem when we've stayed in the gane against a side that's spent £1B and will finish Top 4. Any coach can set up a team, but it's the players that either do the business or not. He's not telling them to not finish more clinically, not to mis-control it, not to get rinsed 1 on 1, or get set pieces wrong.

They have infinitely better players than us, and we are disappointed not to have taken a point.

We saw what happened when we opened up. The ball got turned over quickly, and Jackson got a shooting chance.

We didn't win because the other team edged a boring, tight match.

That's the Moyes we've known for over two decades now, Ian. Do you have any suggestions to how we might change things? Or is an 8th/12th lamb okay for you?

That's erm 2 points from 15 - in essence 3 or 5 league positions. Is that decent enough for you, Ian? Ian, do you like us rolling over so the whatever 'big 6' can kick us in the balls?

Hey Ian let's stay plucky for ever and ever and ever.

Your post Ian is.

Today could be the title wrapped up across the park. I have a lot of sympathy for you when it's rammed down your throats and ears, the vile, obnoxious spew.

Rise above it. Deep in their twisted, souls they would be far happier for us to get relegated, than win the title. The pricks will never be satisfied. Always the victim.

Stay calm. The City is Ours. On the banks of the Royal Blue Mersey.

The point isn't Moyes Out etc. I would not advocate Moyes Out at all. He's a vast improvement obviously on what's happened over the last couple of years.

But he also has only won 5 games and got dumped out of the FA Cup at the first opportunity.

What we are seeing is a manager who hasn't evolved at all. He's no better than the one who left in 2013. He still can't get a result away to a big team. We saw what he was all about last week when he put Michael Keane onto the pitch.

His only tactic in decisive moments is to sit deep and try and soak up pressure and get a counter-attack goal.

So it's not a Moyes Out thread. It's, let's give this 18 months and then get someone in who can really bring success to this club!

We have 38 points. Only the Bottom 3 have had less than our 8 wins all season. We have drawn 14 games. We have lost 12 games, many by a single goal.

We have conceded 41 goals. Only 5 teams have a better defensive record. Our great issue is we average a single goal a game. Only the Bottom 3 are worse than that.

We have an excellent goalkeeper and four really good defenders plus Gueye. Hence our defensive record and ability to draw games we would have lost in the past.

Our record at Goodison is dismal, 4 wins all season. We have no quality in midfield nor in attack. We kid ourselves about Ndiaye and Alcaraz.

Thank goodness we can start clearing out the mess created by the previous regime but there is a huge way to go, especially as our academy produces a few Championship players at best.

The new stadium and ownership is the light at the end of a very long tunnel. We really need to get real if we think this squad can get wins at Anfield, the Etihad, the Emirates or Stamford Bridge.

There is so much to be done over 3 or 4 transfer windows, good luck Mr Moyes but realism is the order of the day — not fantasy.

Looking forward to signing a better class of player during the summer. Onwards and upwards into the new stadium.

That is a realistic assessment of the situation. Moyes has done well to start with, but has already shown his limits, which show that he has not been able to move on from 2013.

I think that we were all hoping he had. It did look promising to start with. In the coming transfer window, hopefully he can stabilise things better.

TFG have got control of recruitment and fortunately did not allow Moyes his two recruitment sidekicks from West Ham.

I think Moyes realises that Everton is not going to be as before, as does Finch Farm. So what we are getting is the usual: get to the end of the season, Everton, without a relegation dogfight. Moyes's fear of losing is dominating tactics. He wants to last till the Summer and hopefully some of next season.

A wholesale turnaround is not expected by TFG so probably Moyes finds himself restricted in what he can bring in, according to the TFG assessment of his ability and is attending performance meetings on the team.

Saints, Ipswich and Leicester have some good defenders. Jacob Greaves and Harwood-Bellis and others can all comfortably play at this level. I think Dyche could have kept up at least 2 of the bottom three this season through mind-numbingly awful defensive displays.

The Bottom 3 all attempt to play football, and their set-up suited a promotion charge where they were on the front foot, scoring goals against Championship opposition. They've tried to carry that on and failed. Much the same thing last season too.

We, on the other hand, have not had a gung-ho season in the Championship – and have instead been set up to protect the goals against column out of dire necessity. The quality of our attackers is low. The emphasis on defensive discipline his high. Moyes has done a really good job of getting a better balance – remaining defensively strong but creating and scoring more.

But this isn't a squad you can just take the handbrake off in order to go higher. That undermines the defensive structure and asks too much of a really low-quality attack and attacking set-up.

Two players we have who can make things happen and get supporters on their feet.

Put them in a better team, surrounded by better players, and we'll get even more out of them.

We all know Moyes inside out and his football outlook. This isn't an amazing turnaround by the dour one, look at Wolves! We live in hope as always, just hope the new owners understand the many decades of frustration we have had to endure as the Reds win title number 20.

I get what was needed this season, but if we want to move the needle, we have to show more ambition to want to win.

I didn't see that yesterday until it was too late. I haven't really seen it for the past few weeks.

With little to play for, I would have expected to see us be brave regardless of the well-known limitations of the squad. Just entertain us.

Paul — I do. Bring in some better players than the ones we have.

Then, if that doesn't work, bring in a better manager.

That's the crux of the matter. Our players aren't as good as those top teams.

Did any of us think that would happen this season?

Don't throw Nottm Forest at me — there's usually one shock per season.

I believe Moyes was brought in to lift us away from being perennial relegation battlers and to get us into that safe (but ultimately boring) mid-table 8th to 12th region.

I think, after recent years, that would be very welcome, to be honest.

I believe he was brought in to steady things and establish the foundations for further improvements in the near to mid future, probably by an younger manager.

Rome wasn't built in a day… despite Dave Abrahams being a foreman on that job.

I still remember the look on Don A's bezzie mate when Roberto said he wanted Champions League football.

Then we had Penfold take over and I think he was letting Danger Mouse make the decisions. The desire for a fab four manager. Koeman was a joke, Benitez should never have happened in a million years.

As for better players, well we all know the list of top quality signings. Who were shit, cost a fortune, and left for little or no money.

We need a bit of stability and it seems Dour Dave is the one.

Rant Over.

I watched Chelsea's players closely yesterday and man for man they were much quicker, aggressive and skilful than ours.

A bloke behind me had it in for Cucurella – constantly shouting “For fuck's sake, X, he's shite him” as X failed to get past him or got tackled by him.

I'm not a fan of Cucurella either, and he's nowhere near Chelsea's best player, but he's better than 8 of our outfielders.

Did you see Jackson's goal? Can you see any of our players finishing like that? Their centre-back waltzed through our whole team and got a shot off and Reece James (I think it was) slalomed into our box effortlessly to bring a good save from Pickford.

Our players simply aren't good enough to match those teams and 1-0 was probably a “decent effort” considering. I hate to say that but it's reality. We are a 14th- or 15th-place team.

Get in some hungry young athletes and look at coaches like Iraola and then we can hope to crack on. Until then, I don't see the point of having a go at Moyes, nor his tactics.

Some on here will be irked by that as they need to hold a grudge and, aside from winning something, I don't think he will ever be able to win those people over.

Call me optimistic but maybe, just maybe, the circumstances are different for him this time. He loves the place, he has decent owners, and hopefully some backing this time. If we get the right playing staff in, who knows what he could achieve in the next 2 years?

I'm not allowed to mention Forest here as a benchmark because those detractors would say I am lacking ambition in saying so!

I for one will be cheering him and us along all the way, one thing I know for a fact won't help with that is people holding onto old grudges and jumping on his back with every game we don't win. Criticism where it's due but the same goes for credit.

I am hopeful and think next season should be a transitioning one. I hope Moyes shows us he has changed and gets us playing outside of ourselves a bit more.

Alcaraz, McNeil and Ndiaye are all talented and creative players, if we can add a good striker and an electric right-midfielder, we really could see something exciting happen ahead of schedule.

I didn't want him back. I argued with my youngest brother about it.

He initially pleasantly surprised me, which I'm grateful for. But old ways seem to be creeping back in.

He deserves to start next season and has earned that.

How long he stays in the Job is anyone's question.

Given better players, there will be no excuses or hiding place.

I see it going three ways.

He succeeds and makes us competitive. I genuinely hope so, because that is all I want, whoever is in the hot seat.

He fails and is gone by Christmas.

The right manager is available and the club act. I don't think these owners will mess around. Sorry to bring them into it on today of all days, when we are about to be subject to Satanic worship, but I don't think our American owners will beat around the bush. Just as they didn't when Klopp made it clear he was available.

Back on point. Just entertain us for the few remaining games we have left this season.

Some of the squad would not make it into other Premier League teams. You cannot carry on shopping at Poundland and paying them high wages.

If the money for buying players does not exist this summer, we will still be in the same position come 2026.

My point is that we need a bit of stability and, as TFG make less statements than the Cosa Nostra, we will have to hope and pray that they have a plan. But are obeying omerta.

There will be a big churn of players this summer. Recent history has shown that our club have bought badly and appointed managers with different styles and needs. We are an 'odds n sods' team at the moment.

Let's hope we get it right — and I may even take up religion this summer to add another prayer.

I don't expect us to win the league next season, but I expect us to compete.

No hiding place behind excuses. Let this season run its horrible course like the last several. But acceptance of mediocrity has to be put firmly into the barrels of history.

It isn't a phrase I use, but "What's our name?" Just believe, Everton and Evertonians. Believe how big and great we can be. We can achieve sooner than we think.

Words are cheap behind a keyboard. It's easy to sit there on a computer and demand better. But I've yet to see that translate on the pitch...

Personally, I am not going to piss and moan over results, when I know pretty much any other manager would be achieving no better with this squad. We've just gone through the tunnel of shit for the last 5 years, and shown we are a hard nut to crack vs Arsenal, Man City, Liverpool and Chelsea.

We are competitive, and that's a base to build on. The turnaround has to be that these teams know they've been in a game and hate playing us.

We are more likely to get wins at home, as we don't have any counter-attacking pace that will hurt teams away from home.

Real change is going to take years, so I fully expect more defeats at the Top 6 away from home. Is that a lamb? No, it's the reality of where we are and something neither of us can change as spectators.

We simply don't have the players to play expansive football against these sides without getting dicked. Does it need to stay like that? No, but it's going to need a lot better players than what we've got, patience and a ton of money for long-term sustainable success.

We had, what, two players in our whole squad that would be remotely near theirs? One's a keeper and one's a centre-back… and even Colwill is ahead of Branthwaite for England. How are you meant to play champagne football against that?

Moyes choose a team, kept it to one, had chances for a goal and penalties, and Sanchez was man of the match. That doesn't sound like a Moyes issue, that sounds like a fairly sound plan to overcome a side we've not beaten since 1994. It's not as if their quality told, it was a Beto mistake that was the difference – when the team tried to actually pass it.

The cameo of Patterson chasing that one-two with Madueke was an illustration of why we can't play attacking football. Good sides see it coming, and put them away with embarrassing ease. For every win that plucky Everton got from this gung-ho football, would be magnified by 10-20 defeats of 5-nil plus. Is that what we want?

The last fella was done at 1-nil. This fella is staying in games, and if he didn't have Beto, Keane etc, would probably be doing better.

So yeah, I'd take 8th to 12th, and it would be for the Friedkins to find a better manager and better players if Moyes can't. Getting above 8th is a fair old challenge when 5 of them are earning a load in Champions League money – and can attract players with Champions League football.

I hope for better, but will only expect it once I see a squad that's good enough to be challenging.

You keep on cheering Moyes, that's fine… but lay off people who don't go along with your estimation of how Moyes has performed. He's won 5 games out of 15 and I've described how I saw those first four wins just as a lot of fans have seen them.

He inherited a threadbare squad and has had a few injuries as well; Tarkowski, the latest one, will be the biggest loss. Some of us understand that and are still waiting for him to get better players in and see how he progresses with them.

The last few games and the performances wouldn't have made us a Top 7 team with one win in nine — again, we understand.

We have played the top teams as well as Brentford, Wolves and West Ham. Arsenal had a depleted team and one eye on a European game 4 days later; Man City and Chelsea have been less than brilliant in most of the games they have played this season.

So we are still waiting until Moyes gets a decent squad together to see how he does with his squad — and so are you because you are hoping, stress hoping, that Moyes will turn out different than the manager he has been all his career.

Can we get the right players at the right price? Is Moyes the man to take them forward? I for one just don't know…

But the ownership team will be very important in guiding the process and making sure Moyes has a good chance by getting players to come and that he has the right staff to support him.

There are two extremes: one is failure and relegation battles; and the other will be European places. I don't know what will happen but I trust the club to achieve the latter in a professional manner.

It won't be easy to get the right players and get them to gel, it won't be easy and it isn't our right… and if anybody thinks they can predict what will happen in such a massively chaotic process, then I have a bridge to sell.

For sure, though, the club has the support of a wonderful bunch of fans and our support will be key even if we share it with the Plasticinians.

I don't agree that TFG and Moyes have just achieved that. They've achieved one non-relegation battle out of the last four seasons. To me, that's not stability – that's us working towards it.

Like you, I have ambition… but I think to "greatly" improve we'll need around seven or eight players — all better than what we have now.

For that, I reckon you're looking at north of £150M (probably more). I can't see TFG forking out that in the summer, can you?

I know how you feel, I really do, but optimism alone ain't gonna do it for us.

I can't blame anyone for being impatient after we've been shit for so long but I think we'll have to be for a while longer, mate.

The voice of reason amongst the vitriol from one regular contributor on here, who finds it's not enough to disagree with you in a reasoned way, but also feels it necessary to mount a personal attack as well.

I honestly don't understand the reason he acts in this way.

Strange.

With Beto, Doucoure and Harrison making up most of our attacking threat, it's a wonder we got to safety so quickly.

This is mainly a squad who have been battling relegation for the last 3 seasons, so let's stop this nonsense that they are good players just under-achieving.

Let's face it — we hardly saw O'Brien under our last manager; he deemed him not good enough for the Premier League… just as well we made the managerial change when we did.

I think yesterday highlighted a few things: first, we have one of the best centre-backs in the country in Branthwaite and under no circumstances must he be sold.

As I mentioned, O'Brien has been terrific, first at right-back, and yesterday showing what a great partner he will be for Branthwaite.

I am afraid Patterson is just not good enough and the improvement when he was replaced by 39-year-old Young was obvious.

I also think the tactical switch at half-time, bringing in Alcaraz to play alongside Gana and pushing Garner to left-back and pushing Mykolenko further forward, worked. I could never imagine our previous manager making that sort of change.

Good to see McNeil back to replace Harrison, and I thought Chermiti did okay when he came on.

For Moyes's critics, and I know there are many, let's give him at least a transfer window and then judge how well or not he is doing. He will need probably more than 1 window to turn this team around.

Let's not forget, most of these players have been here during our relegation battles over the last 3 years. So they are hardly top players under-achieving, they are mainly a bunch of very average Premier League players… and that's being very kind to some of them.

I wish we could forget who our manager is, to keep blaming whoever is in charge is fruitless.

It's top players we need, the problem is it's nigh-on impossible to buy or keep them.

Moyes has all the experience needed to shape the squad into what is needed but striking options need to be addressed in the Summer and we all hope that some groundwork is being done now.

Chelsea were there to be beaten yesterday but they missed the chance because of the obvious frailties.

So it is no easy job to rebuild a side that is relegation class at times into one that can compete even at mid-table.

Nice to see sides like Forest and Palace doing well as it shows what can be done… but easy? Not a chance.

I've desperately wanted Patterson to be a cavalier marauding right-back. Play him again vs Ipswich, Southampton, Fulham and Newcastle, but it's looking increasingly looking like he's not the answer.

Most people I speak to aren't "irked" or hold a grudge. His name was chanted at the match yesterday, just as it has been since his return.

I could hear the Evertonians from where I was sat and the Chelsea supporters told me they wished he was their manager. I urged on the side of caution, just as he does.

This isn't a "Moyes good guy versus Moyes bad guy" debate. Just supporters questioning his suitability to take us back to where we want to be. I personally don't think he is, but I'm right behind him and the team in every match I attend.

Brian, I always respect and mostly agree with your views. But stability has already happened. Time waits for no-one and now we need to be pushing on.

I keep saying, no matter what this club and various managers have done to us over 4 decades, no-one will ever play down or beat the expectation I have for Everton out of me.

No one ever will. If Moyes doesn't meet those standards and expectations, then he isn't the man for the job. It's simple in my own simple head.

A bit deep, but to quote Mahatma Ghandi "You can't take away our self-respect if we do not give it to them".

Ian @55. Really good post, but I'd check the stats, even though I dislike them as a measure. Not all under Moyes's second tenure, but our number of wins at Goodison in her final season has been abysmal. I think it's 4 wins?

Seriously??

Christ! I defend Moyes… but that's ridiculous!

But three players of quality would transform this First XI.
A right-back, a right-winger or forward, and an attacking midfielder.

Someone who could get into double figures would be nice as well.

8 points from the last 9 games is relegation level, although the performances have deserved slightly better. Yesterday was a lame effort against an average and beatable Chelsea team – the manager really needs to get over his fearfulness away from home when facing the Sky 6 (that does not include Forest).

David Moyes did a good job in maximising the results in his early winnable games, but the squad simply lacks the depth and quality to become a Top 10 club. We will likely lose 8 + players due to loan expiries and contract endings from a weak squad, so I don't think adding 3-4 players will be sufficient.

This is going to be a big rebuild over 2-3 years. Is Moyes the man to lead it? Would anyone do better?

I think TFG see him as a safe pair of hands, but results will decide it. If we start next season with 8 points from 9 games, he will be gone.

I also think we will need a right-back, left-back, centre-back, central midfielder and striker.

Departures in the summer will likely be Lindstrom, Broja, Calvert-Lewin, Keane, Young, Harrison, Gana or Doucoure, and Begovic. Coleman and Alcaraz could join them.

As Steve reckons the Chelsea team is only average, maybe we could put bids in for any three of their players from yesterday. That would be a start!

I'm not having a go, Steve, but nine of their players would get into our first eleven.

Spot on and I agree with everything you stated.

Moyes is learning about his squad every game and I think the subs yesterday could have meant the end for Harrison and Patterson.

He has always been able to spot a player: Cahill, Pienaar, Yobo etc, and Soucek at West Ham… the latter I expect to be his first signing along with Fellows. The rest? Well, we will have to see.

The players are all (Branthwaite and Pickford excepted) what you'd expect from players bought relatively cheaply or on loan because their parent club doesn't need them.

We can all name a player and list his pros and cons. I'll restrict myself to Doucoure and Mykolenko.

Doucoure would be better employed in today's London Marathon, he can run for ever and never stops trying. His shooting provides half a dozen goals a season, but his close control is pathetic for a Premier League midfielder and he cannot read a game or think ahead.

Mykolenko is again a great trier, but in any 50-50 challenge, he seems to always be the weaker player. When he overlaps, which he does frequently, he invariably hits the first man or sends it way over the other side of the penalty area.

If he had the misfortune to be used as a gunner in his poor nation's army, he would be court-martialled for friendly fire offences.

These players are on loan or available for a cheap fee because their previous clubs have discovered their inadequacy.

Did you think they played well, or were not beatable yesterday?

We almost got an undeserved draw in the last 10 minutes. That was the only time we took the game to them.

Probably a good job I was at sea for Wimbledon and Bayern and on my way back to Australia after the Brentford game during the Palace match!

Here's a few realistic signings for each of the three key positions. I could probably list about 20 or so in each case (ballpark prices).

Right-back:

- Walker-Peters (free)
- Lamptey (free)
- Sildillia (£17M)
- Wesley (£22M)
- T Santos (£30M)

Right winger or forward:

- Doak (£25M)
- Nuamah (£22M)
- Chukwueze (£18M or loan)
- Enciso (£30M or loan)
- Roger (£30M)

Attacking Midfield:

- Uche (£27M)
- Dewsbury-Hall (£25M or loan)
- Baturina (£25M)
- El Khannoussi (£25M or loan)
- Oroz (£20M)

Steve # 71 – it's about priorities. If you want a squad as good as our (very poorly managed) opponents yesterday, then we probably need another 15 players – many of whom would cost between about £40M and £75M – more in a few cases.

But since that's out of the question, it seems to make sense to focus attention on the positions that make the most difference. I expect that is what Moyes and the recruitment team will do – leaving us with a core squad of about 18-ish who play most of the games.

We have one great player (Pickford), one very good young player with a chance to be great (Branthwaite), and two good young players with a chance to be very good (O'Brien, Ndiaye). All the rest who are staying this summer are as good as they are ever gonna get. Beto,

Garner, McNeil, the fullbacks… they've topped out, well short of greatness. And with the kids (Iroegbunam, Alcaraz, Chermiti) it's just way too soon to tell.

I do not, however, believe that every non-great player requires replacing. If we add two quality attackers in midfield (one outside, one inside), there's a place for an everyman like Garner or a plug-and-play like McNeil. If we get a speedy attacking right-back, there's a role for a defense-only left-back.

I also believe this will not be a rapid transition. It'll take at least three windows and some considerable luck to pull in the 12 players we need, and the urgent weak spots must be addressed first -- attacking midfield, right-back, wing, overall pace, overall depth.

We have 12 squad players who remain under contract beyond the summer: Mykolenko, Garner, Tarkowski, Branthwaite, McNeil, Pickford, Beto, Patterson, Iroegbunam, Chermiti, O'Brien, Ndiaye.

Of the players out of contract this summer, possibly Gueye, Virginia, Alcaraz and Doucoure may stay (all 4 are unlikely). I think Coleman will join the coaching staff.

We are not going to pack the squad with 6-7 academy players, as the quality is not there – Armstrong and Dixon are possibilities but would do better on loan.

Whichever way you look at it, we will have 7+ players coming in this summer.

Some youth team players might make up the numbers but probably won't play.

As I say, we'll probably rely on a core group of about 18.

If we have 2 starting 11s, we will be lucky.

More likely, some pretty atrocious footballers like Doucoure will be the lucky ones.

A surgically-repaired 32-year-old hamstring may not be ready for August.

We are probably at least 5 years away, if not 10, from having the right circumstances to build a competitive team. By that, I don't mean winning the league, I mean having a shot at the Top 4.

We have one man to thank for this (though he had many accomplices): William Kenwright, God rest his soul.

I understand the argument for sending players out on loan for more regular game time but, over the years, I lean more towards having them involved with our first team squad if they have the potential.

They wouldn't be starting, but training, being part of the squad and getting 20 minutes would be equally beneficial in my opinion. Dixon and Armstrong are the only ones I can think of right now. Maybe Graham, but I've not seen enough of him.

I love Coleman and his commitment to the club. I don't have an issue with him joining the coaching staff as long as it is a decision based on his coaching credentials and not sentiment. We've had enough of that over the years.

Mike @83. Hamstrings are tricky ones and players shouldn't be rushed back too soon. Quad injuries are similar. Just when you think you're okay, you can break down very quickly.

My point stands ª they had 9 better, faster more skilful players than us and, until we can match that, it's no use blaming the manager for not winning such close games.

To be a better team, we need better players. That's all I'm saying.

I agree we may need to include Dixon and Armstrong in the first team squad next season as we will have to build up the squad strength. It seems a pity though, as being parked on the bench will not help their development compared to a season-long loan in the Championship or in Europe.

What has happened to Roman Dixon since his first team debut away to Spurs? Perhaps he made the mistake of playing too well and making the rest of the defence look bad that day (Tarkowski, Keane and Mykolenko were dreadful that game). He might not be top quality, but he filled me with more confidence than I ever had watching Patterson.

Fair enough, Mark @87, it's all opinions. I honestly thought that the Chelsea performance was poor. They were there for the taking if we had been more progressive in our game plan, as the last 10 minutes showed when we created chances. So I do hold the manager responsible, as the pattern of performances away to top clubs has never varied, nor have the results.

David Moyes has now won just one of his 77 Premier League away games against Man Utd, Liverpool, Arsenal and Chelsea. That's 1 win, 21 draws and 55 defeats. That cannot be put down to the players surely.

It goes back to what's best for him. Game time with the U21s or on loan (Championship or Europe). Or being around better players as part of the first team squad. I lean more towards the latter, but I don't make the decisions.