Taking One Step Back

Great Idea

I would rather sell Big Vic, Heitinger and Fellaini, then RM would have plenty of money to play with

Mark, I was thinking Hetinga and Naismith, especially now that we seem to be getting closer to a deal for Kone. I think that Vic has shown more than Naismith, even though Naismith didn't get a decent run last season.

Patrick, my thinking was that our current model of managing our finances is unsustainable long term. My feeling was that developing the squad from within would ease the pressure to provide a transfer fund, either through selling players or from already stretched 'other' revenue streams. But then, what do you do short term over the next season or two?

We need to keep Baines at all costs, he is just irreplaceable in my opinion. I have my doubts as regards Fellaini leaving, Arsenal seem to be his only suitors, we can't afford to let him run his contract down much further as Martinez needs every available penny.

Barkley and Stones look most likely to make the step up to the first team,surely these lads deserve much more game time this year. I always think back to Cheltenham in the FA Cup last year when after complaining about his squad being tired Moyes played a full strength team! How the likes of Duffy, Junior, Vellios and Barkley must have felt not being trusted to play against a League 2 side can't have done their morale any favours.

Martinez I'm sure will do the opposite: Wigan always played youth players in the lower rounds of cups, this can off course have an adverse effect on cup runs but at least he finds out if the young players are good enough; I'm thinking Calum McManaman benefited by taking his chance in this years cup run.

Alberto Aquallani
Andy Carroll
Jordan Henderson
Stuart Downing

If this is what clubs like Liverpool do well, then I'm glad we're not a club like Liverpool!!!!!

All of our money seems mostly to be raised by homegrown talents like Rooney and Rodwell (potentially Barkley at some point). My point is that if we sell Baines I don't expect us to go out and buy another world class leftback to replace him, one that's younger and that if sold later would retain the 20 million value of Baines' sale. We'll probably sell Baines and use the funds to buy squad fillers at CB midfield and upfront that will either retire with us or be sold for a nominal fee. That 20 million asset that Baines was has now gone. A bit like the 30 million for Rooney has now gone and we haven't had a world class striker since. Atletico Madrid on the other hand had their wonder prospect of Torres but still have the cash value of that asset after selling Falcao because they did not dilute that asset and have had a world class striker at the club ever since Torres. Likewise Liverpool paid 20 million for a star striker in Torres - money invested from the owners, and if they sell Suarez they'll double that figure. The only way that amount of cash is ever going to be frittered away is if they buy badly (Carrol - fortunately Suarez's value has bailed them out of that mistake) or if they dilute it by by using it to buy squad players who either decrease in value, retire with them, or don't all develop into superstars that if sold would give you that cash sum back.

We had 26 million from the sale of Lescott and between Bilyaletdinov (10), Distin (5) and Heitinga (7) we'll probably recoup about 7 million of that when they've all left the club (Distin probably being through retirement). I know one of them has given us good service but has it been worth the loss of 19 million? Lets say hypothetically we'd taken the 26 mill and offered an eye watering amount for a young CB like Varane, Luiz or Thiago Silva (lets pretend this is a fantasy world where they'd actually be interested in joining) a fee that size would be hard to turn down. If we were looking to sell them now to a top club you'd at the very least get your 26 million back and you'd probably make more . You'd then have around 30 million to spend on a CB whilst always ensuring that you had a world class one at the club the same way that Atletico always have a world class striker from Torres to Forlan to Aguero to Falcao despite for a while not being one of the very top teams in Spain. The genius of Moyes was turning Lescott from a 5 mill asset into a 26 mill one but once he had it was squandered.

Money doesn't guarantee success but the right blend of managerial skills and team spirit goes a long way. It was obvious that some of the players Everton have do not measure up even some of those who played regularly over the last few seasons and it's time for new blood and new opportunities.

Everton have gotten some real bargains over the years so why not again. Does a player have to have a 10 or 20 million price tag before we say he is going to be a good fit?
Let's give the new manager, his procurements and his system a chance before we get hypercritical of anything.

I see the Wigan on loan cup final keeper has returned to Athletico.
A fine talent. Rumours are circulating that we may be in for him.
Robles is the name. A young athietic giant with safe hands.

We did sort of follow this one saleable marquee signing for a few years; Beattie, Johnson, Yakubu, Fellaini..... It also coincided with consistent European finishes. Food for thought??

GK Howard. Given---------------------------------springthorpe--------------
RB Coleman. Stones---------------------------------------------------------------
LB Bains. Oviedo------------------------garbut-------------------------------
CB jags. Duffy------------------------------------------------------------------
CB distin. Alcaraz--------------------------------------------------------------
CM Fellaini. Gibson ----------------------junior---------------------------------
CM Barkley. Osman-------------------------------------------------------------
CMA Honda. Naismith-------------------------------------------------------------
RW mirralas. Redmond-----------------Kennedy -----------------------------
LW Pienaar. --------------------------------------------------------------------------
CF Kone. Jelavic---------------anichebe--------mcalleny------------------

In; Given(free), Alcaraz(free), Honda(£5m), kone(5m), Redmond(3m). Total £13m

Out: Hibbert, Neville, Hieghtinga, Velios, mucha, hitzlesperger, gueye total £3m

£10m net spend to make two strong sides and 6 good kids

A truly excellent post.

I think any team can afford any world class player of a young age, as the only ever increase in value. We have let spurs outbid us for many young players but what could they sell them for now?

Speculate to accumulate. £15m bid for Lukaku anyone?

Alan's right, a really good post.

The issue with it is, Moyes gets some whacking great sell on fees for Rooney, Rodwell and Lescott. He then has the choice of buying three or four top drawer replacements or a group of good squad players.

Im a gambling man - but in his, and the clubs predicament, I wouldn't blame him for not putting all his eggs in one basket with star signings (what if they flop or get a career ending injury....?) and probably invest in some tried and tested pro's and some decent looking youngsters.

What I would say though is if when you think about the three sales above (£70m+...?), it further asks the question where has all the money gone......?

I'm not sure the likes of Lundstram and Stones are quite ready to start a series of games at Premiership level but hopefully will get a few chances here and there.

The kids I would like to see more of are Mcaleny and Junior, both look very comfortable on the ball which should suit Martinez' style.

That said, it does not (for me) remove the langour that hangs over the club. I appreciate that there are some fans that are genuinely excited about the prospects ahead. However, not scientific, but many of these people I imagine were staunch ant-Moyes.

Grateful for what he had done up to the three -quarter mark of his reign,I felt it was time for Moyes to move on. The manner of how that was concluded has left a very sour taste. That's gone. We are now focusing on the here and now. That's the issue. The void left by Moyes (like him or not - it is) has been plugged by a lazy and uninspiring appointment. In acquiring the services of a manager and now we hear backroom staff!!!of a relegated club (that were good enough to stay up - FA Cup showed you that) is an appointment that is totally uninspiring. The amount of mail contributions telling us to be cheery in spite of the appointment, in spite of there being no money still!! reinforces the fact that the decline is just continuing. I expect it to quicken with the ageing squad and loss of key players.

Sorry, but a pessemist is only really an optomist in possession of the facts.

It's not so much of a gamble for RM as he has left a small town club and even if he fails - which god forbid he doesn't - he will be able to claim that the money factor undermined his tenure. If he succeeds his own reputation will have been enhanced and he can do a Moyes' and move to a 'bigger' club.

Like it or not RM is the manager of Everton FC and even if that makes people less than enthusiastic, they still have a duty when the season starts to get right behind the team, because if the crowd turns against the team things will turn ugly very quickly and none of us want to see that.

For those fans who think that Everton having a bad season will hasten BK's departure, I believe that won't happen in fact the best opportunity to see BK relinquish the club is if we are successful on the pitch, COYB and good luck Robbie.

I get he felt that he was getting great value and for us this meant he could by almost as good for far cheaper and even more.... The theory is valid. However my preference is once you have value, especially upfront, you keep that value. It might take longer to progress but you can progress further in the long run by maintaining your value in an individual player. Rooney - sell for 25 and maintain your striker with that value.

If we sell Baines for instance for 18m, I wouldn't say we must have the same value LB, but I would be tempted to use that to create value upfront or go for a 15m youngster from Germany or Portugal. (I sense the Spanish ones are just waiting for Barca or Real).

I am putting "lazy and uninspiring" firmly at the feet of our shambles of a board. It is not Martinez's fault that he has been appointed.

Worryingly, the lack of imagination of his appointment is now been mirrored by Martinez in his structuring of his back-room team. I think this is exacerbating the concern fans like me have.

If I was RM - I would be attuned to the sensitivity (only choice is irrelevant) some EFC fans may have in recruiting for the first time in 15 managerial appointments a manager who has just palpably failed.

Bringing his back room staff and Kone, Alcaraz down the M58 shows a lack of menatl agility and intuition - which compounds my concern about the appointment.

However, putting all this to one side, nothing, but nothing will ever stop me getting behind the team and supporting whoever is in charge.

I seee Everton in a family context. Out there, in public, we rally, vocally physically and emotionally.

On here (Toffeweb) - we're indoors - we can talk about the family and our concerns - I see these two environments as being quite distinctly exclusive from one another.

James Martin makes an interesting point and one which has also frustrated me. We have not replaced Rooney with a decent striker since he left and that money was wasted on the likes of Neville.

So we should be happy that a manager that its widely accepted overachieved with our limted squad and resources has gone and we have replaced him with one that got his team relegated after barely staying in the premiership before doing that ?!?!?

Osman, Distin, Pienaar, Hibbert, and our ex - Neville need replacements within a couple of seasons.

Losing Fellaini and Baines would really take the spine out of the side. If I were Martinez, I'd hold on to them, promising regular play at a familiar club in a World Cup year. It's not like they won't play in two big competitions !

Whatever small amounts of money are actually there to spend should be for squad players (Alcaraz, Kone, a journeyman keeper...fine) and good youngsters who are on the cusp of making it (Redmond, young spanish keeper, etc..).

I'd steer well clear of Given, he is well past it and woeful for both Ireland and Villa over the last season.

Why would anyone buy English when you can do that... Reportedly Palace paid 5.3 from Dwight Gayle.... Crazy.

Just fancy if Roberto could go out and buy 4 say £15m players, now then, we would stand a chance of challenging for something

Managers are in the same boat as a jockey, doesn't matter how good the jockey is, he cant win if the horse isn't good enough.
Roberto seems to have all the attributes to become a top manager, but Im not sure about his horse!