Editor’s Note: One of the recurring themes of our recent Reader Survey has been requests to curtail the recent rise in discussion about Liverpool FC on these pages but the dilemma thrown up by our match against Manchester City on Saturday vis-a-vis the title is going to be unavoidable in the build-up this week. The following is an edited version of Simon’s submission, originally added as a lengthy comment to one of our threads, which offers one fan’s feelings on this.

OK, I will run away and hide after this, but these are going to be my thoughts going into this very strange week for myself and millions of other lifelong Evertonians.

I was a season ticket holder from the 1983-84 season up until the 1994-95 season, then I moved half way across the world. When I visit home, I plan my vacations around being able to catch as many home and away games as possible. I stay up (or set my alarm clock) for 2, 3 4 or 5pm in the freezing cold Alaska mornings to watch our live games on NBC here in the States. I still live and breathe Everton Football Club.

We have a fantastic new manager (relatively speaking) who has instilled a sense that we can beat anyone into our team; we play attractive football; we have a new kit with a new crest that new exciting players will be wearing alongside Coleman, Baines, McCarthy, Barry, Lukaku (yes, I’m confident). It seems that a new stadium within the city limits is on the horizon. As Blues we all know that we live in hope and seem to get let down a lot, but we believe because we are Toffees.

Everton Football Club are by far and away the best sports club/franchise/organisation on the planet. There is just an air of ’nice’ about Everton as a club: friendly and professional. We as supporters are insanely passionate about our team, we worship the club and all that it stands for. We agree, disagree, air our views in private and in public, all the while supporting our team to the hilt and wanting only one thing above all else: for our team to be successful.

Players past and present, every single one of them (well most... think Barmby, Nayarko) have said that, "Once a Blue, Always a Blue," Everton touches you in ways that cannot be explained etc etc. But there is something else: On the whole,, we are liked by most neutrals and are well respected by other teams, except it seems by a certain Liverpool FC and its support base... global support base a support base that lives on past glories and thinks they have a divine right to be successful.

It also looks upon us as a ’small’ club, not the team to represent the city of Liverpool and just there to be laughed at now and again. Err... if you know your history, people, we are the ORIGINAL team from the city, and LFC only exist because a greedy landlord wanted more money; we left and LFC was formed. Typical.

I want Everton to lose next Saturday. There, I have said it and I will probably stick with it. The Champions League? Arsenal will probably hold onto 4th place; can’t see them losing again. I can see us beating City, our past record against them, we are capable, and yes, Everton FC are the ultimate professionals they will go out to try and win and so they should, and there is no doubt the Old Lady will be rocking as it should be.

2-0 or 2-1 to Everton is my prediction. Then we will beat Hull. 5th place guaranteed, Europa League perfect... except, Liverpool will be Champions, taking away any limelight and success our great club will have earned itself in its first season under new management. A brilliant achievement. LFC have done this throughout their entire history; we are always, even in our most successful periods, clinging onto that team’s coat tails.

So, if all that happens and Arsenal do slip up, are we ready for the Champions League? Remember last time? Not in my mind except I have every confidence that Martinez will strengthen our team no end in the summer. We are rebuilding; RM is building. Let’s take a pop at the Europa League, see how good we really are, then push on with new world class players, a 4th place finish and a little European experience next time. I can live with that.

And I want to live with it at the same time as wallowing in the fact that LFC, part in parcel because of ’Stevie 16 years he deserves it in the minds of all G-La’s’ slip against Chelsea today cost LFC the title, and after they had it basically in the bag.

This is what I want: We lose to Man City, beat Hull City, take 5th. Man City go on after beating us and win their other two games (not guaranteed by any means but it’s highly possible) and sensationally take the title from LFC. Our season is seen as a success, LFC as a failure yes it would be after being 5 points clear with three to play!

I want us to lose to Man City. It will hurt us a little... jeez lids we have had to endure a lot worse eh? But it will absolutely hurt Liverpool more if Man City go on to take the title. And we would have for once, hurt their team. Do you really want, after everything that has happened in the past, for LFC fans to thank us, thank our team for helping them win the title? Because that is what it will come down to....

Okay, there, I’ve said all I want to say. Over to you lot to love or hate me. I can take it, I am an Evertonian.

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Reader Comments (613)

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Ben Dyke
1 Posted 28/04/2014 at 06:35:36
I share the sentiment...but there may also be a greater victory in not actually caring at all about the reds, whether they win anything ever again or not...who cares.

We do care because our history is ever so entwined, right from the start, and we have 90% of the time been on the wrong end of it (and you don't need me to regurgitate THAT list).

Paul Andrews
2 Posted 28/04/2014 at 06:50:17
I sincerely hope City beat us on Saturday and go on to win the league.

They have sneered at us for years," small club"..."19 years and counting" etc.

Don't forget when we played Wimbledon some of their fans had coffins with the Everton crest built ready to parade them.

No dilemma for me.

Mohammed Horoub
3 Posted 28/04/2014 at 06:38:44
I'm in the same boat Simon. I was cheering for Chelsea and Man City yesterday just as much as Everton on Saturday... I'm afraid the loss to Crystal Palace cost us a CL spot and if Pulis doesn't beat the RS next week I will have to add Crystal Palace to my 'Hate' list. The only other teams on that list are Liverpool and Stoke...

I'm really hoping for a West Ham win/draw against Spurs as I really don't want to go into the Hull game having to win. (We don't typically do well in those situations) We need a point to beat Man U and if Spurs fail to win then we will only need a point against Hull.

But regardless I think for the first time ever I will be happy if Everton lose against Man City and the way I cheered the teams on yesterday just confirmed that.

Dick Brady
4 Posted 28/04/2014 at 07:20:33
I think our Champions League challenge ended with the Southampton defeat. The chances of Newcastle beating Arsenal tonight are incredibly slim. Basically its over and we are now fighting for 5th, 6th and 7th.

I really don’t want Liverpool to win the title and if the only way to stop that happening is to gift Man City 3 points next weekend, so be it.

We have to be careful as Man Utd could still pip us for 6th and if we finished 7th we would have no European football of any kind which would be disappointing.

I really want to beat Man City and finish 5th but the idea of Steven Gerard on an open-top bus lifting the Premiership Title makes me cringe.

In a weird way I’ll be happy winning or losing against Man City.

Michael Brien
5 Posted 28/04/2014 at 07:27:23
Sorry, I cant go with wanting us to lose. If we win and Liverpool win the league, then at least we can say that "they owe us" or that they needed us.

Ive been an Evertonian for 49 years, since I was 7 years old. I want Everton to win every match, I dont care about Liverpool or what their fans think, say or do. For me its about Everton as simple as that.

Rich Williams
6 Posted 28/04/2014 at 07:35:58
I would be interested to know what percentage of Evertonians would rather lose v Man City at the weekend? I spoke to 4 today who all want to lose. Toffee web poll?
Christopher Timmins
7 Posted 28/04/2014 at 07:42:54
I am hoping that we do it for Stevie G! No dilemma here, we want to break the 70 point barrier and clinch 5th place. Our best chance of obtaining our aim is to rest everyone next Saturday and get ready for the Hull game! Beat Hull, playing in the Curp final, the following weekend and the job is done!

Eugene Ruane
8 Posted 28/04/2014 at 07:50:19
I want us to win because I'm scared how they'll react if we lose.

You know how they get.


David Hallwood
9 Posted 28/04/2014 at 07:52:13
I'm with Christopher(#7), I've NEVER wanted Everton to lose, even though a few years ago I used to bet against them, the being that if we lost I could dry my eyes on the winnings, I still would prefer the bet to go down. Don't be 'bitters', because that is a small club mentality, think big as those self-help books used to proclaim, and only concentrate on the blues-besides if we do turn Shitteh over and the RS do win the league, we can always say that they needed help from us.
David Cornmell
10 Posted 28/04/2014 at 07:49:14
Win, lose or draw, this weekend will be magic.Every possible result will suit me just fine! Even if we lose, there's consolation...it's going to be great.
I still believe the spawny bastards will win the league, even if Citeh take three points from us on Saturday. In their own way, Citeh are a bunch of bottlers. Perhaps from being only recently moneyed top four? It's Mourinho and his men that deal with pressure - under the weight of expectation it's the Citeh that crumble.
So I suggest enjoying the RS discomfort, and classlessness now, and prepare for the inevitable insufferable jubilation when they ram the seventh past Newcastle on the final day in the ninety third minute to take it on goal difference.
David Hallwood
11 Posted 28/04/2014 at 07:58:20
Dick Brady, I must admit I just cannot get my head around the mentality. Seriously ask yourself am I more anti red than a blue, because what posters haven't realised that we could still lose out on European football. And yet you're not sure whether you even want Everton to beat Man City!

FFS!! nose-face-cut off comes to mind, if we lose out on European football we won't be able to attract better players that we need to have a real shot at it next season. I'm an Evertonian first, second and third; yes I hate the RS becoming champions in fact I detest the Sky 4 (but strangely not as much as Spurs & Newcastle and their delusional supporters), but my only concern is my team

Mike Hughes
12 Posted 28/04/2014 at 08:08:57
What's the worst thing that can happen?

We finish 5th or 6th (4th has gone) - no big deal for me as progress has been made this season. We'll kick on next year.

Or the rs win the league? Opening the floodgates to months / years of further snide, hypocritical scumbags talking down to us; increasing the profile of the rs; reinvigorating their transfer policy with fresh blood that will sustain them for several years; continuation of the media love-in; "Being Liverpool 2: the turd resurfaces"; moustachioued, skid-mark stained gobshites bigging it up around town; Stevie Me on chat shows, sculptures and the subject of leadership development courses ... I could go on but I'm starting to tremble with hatred.

I hope we are as professional against City as we were against Southampton - those two own goals would be perfect next Saturday. Give the kids an end of season run-out.

It's not just about us - or the city. There is a greater good at stake here, not to mention my own mental health. (It's Monday morning and I'm eating my breakfast wearing a City scarf. FFS! The rs winning the league cannot be allowed to happen.)

Matt Geraghty
14 Posted 28/04/2014 at 08:19:28
I dislike the RS as much as any self-respecting Evertonian, but I'd rather see them win it, than the financial cheats that are Man City & Chelski.

Alan Williams
15 Posted 28/04/2014 at 08:14:29
I’ve never said this before, but I want us to lose and I think we will lose by a big margin, especially after Saturday’s poor display.

We no longer have a dilemma as we can’t really get 4th anyway... Back that with the injury list we have and we will lose anyway so best to milk it, wind up all of the Red Shite that we will roll over so they don’t win, classic wind-up if ever we had against them. I’m sick of the TV showing those wankers in the kop and them lining the street when the coach comes in it just so desperate and I’m glad they have blown it.

I live in the south and what gets everybody is the media are saying all neutrals want them to win but believe me they don’t; like us, they hate the RS and the media bias towards them.

I went to Southampton on Saturday and was gutted at our display. Yesterday afternoon, I was jumping up and down when the second goal went in. Don’t let anybody fool you otherwise they would do exactly the same in reverse so enjoy the whole week of winding them up. We’re all laughing at Liverpool, ha ha ha!

Matt Traynor
16 Posted 28/04/2014 at 08:24:35
I want us to play fantastically well, but in the 5th minute of injury time (when there were no real incidents and Man City were time wasting to grimly hold onto their hard fought point after a backs-to-the-wall performance), the referee to give the softest penalty seen for many a year at Goodison (yet strangely seen in Liverpool games with regularity).

Aguerro takes it, Howard dives full length, get's a strong hand to it, tips it onto the post, where it rebounds off his slap-head into the net, to give City a richly undeserved victory.

They couldn't say we didn't try...

Matt Traynor
17 Posted 28/04/2014 at 08:29:32
Matt #13, they are just as big financial cheats. They buried over 100m in bad debt before FFP monitoring started to cover up the transfer profligacy during Dalglish's ill-fated return.

Do you really think they spent over 100m on the Stanley Park Stadium without laying a brick? More than our cowshed in Kirkby would've cost?

Jon Withey
18 Posted 28/04/2014 at 08:42:05
Want to see us win every game we play. And if we need a draw for Euro qualification - even more so. Everyone else can worry about themselves.
Craig Fletcher
19 Posted 28/04/2014 at 08:32:23
Ridiculous. It's about us, first and foremost.

This obsession with Liverpool just starts to get all a little embarrassing. If they win the league this season; so be it - frankly I'm only concerned about how far up the league we can go.

So, to that end, I'm still holding out hope for 4th, but if not that, then we need three points to secure 5th. Whether those points come against Man City or Hull, I'm not too bothered.

Ray Robinson
20 Posted 28/04/2014 at 08:38:46
Whatever happened to the chant "We don't care what the redshite say, what the fuck do we care?"

I don't want Liverpool to win the League just as much as any Blue but I cannot bring myself to wish a defeat on Everton - not under any circumstances. Sorry, I'll endure the taunts if need be. Our integrity means something far more to me than throwing the towel in.

Of course, in an ideal world, Arsenal will lose tonight and at Norwich, we'll win both our games and Liverpool will lose at Palace. Not going to happen is it?

Still can't wish a defeat on Everton though!

Paul Smith
21 Posted 28/04/2014 at 08:46:46
I have to say I hate it and am miserable for a few days when we lose but in this case I would happily make an exception. This is a no brainer to me and think we may have scored the own goals a week to soon. They have moaned about our loan players all season( they have 2 as well) and will moan now that Barry cannot play. With all our injuries as well we should play the young lads and ensure what players we have are fit to play Hull and still get 5th.
Brent Stephens
22 Posted 28/04/2014 at 08:46:26
Can't agree with Dick that I don't want us to beat Man City. But I do share the fears. Defeat to Man City is more likely than unlikely. And "Tigers defeat" would not be surprising.

All this talk about "what would you prefer" (RS champs or chumps; us 4th or 5th etc) is computer game stuff and unreal. We might not be having much influence on the outcome.

Trevor Thompson
23 Posted 28/04/2014 at 08:54:14
If 4th is back on after tonight then I'll gladly accept them winning the league and us finishing 4th. If not, then I don't want them winning the league. 5th and 6th position are the same to me.

Signed, A Proud Bitter Blue to the end.

Brent Stephens
24 Posted 28/04/2014 at 09:05:11
As per Mike Hughes #11, even if we "only" finish 6th, what a great season it's been, in so many ways (new manager; McCarthy signing; Oviedo's development; youth coming through; Man Utd wins; Arsenal performances; blah blah; so-called transition season and yet we're still aiming for 4th with only 2 games left; Stevie Me's gift; blah blah).

And the season isn't even over. What a climax. What tensions. What dilemmas. Again, regardless of outcome, what a last two weeks it'll be.

And then the immediate anticipation of what next season holds.

The world is brilliant at the moment.

Gerry Morrison
25 Posted 28/04/2014 at 09:10:54
I have hated Man City since Tommy Booth scored and I cried all the way home from Birmingham. However, I'll settle for a narrow defeat this weekend. I'm not biased or bitter; I don't care who stops Liverpool.
Graham Tansey
26 Posted 28/04/2014 at 09:26:39
I can't believe people are wanting us to lose on Saturday. We can still easily finish 7th which means no Europa League next season which to me would be a disaster with the season we have had.
Malcolm Joyner
27 Posted 28/04/2014 at 09:32:00
Totally fucking ridiculous and difficult to believe that such warped, petty minded and bigoted Evertonians exist!

The only conclusion for this thought process is that the writer's hatred of Liverpool FC exceeds his love of Everton.

Not many people's definition of a true Evertonian, I suggest!

Tim Muzio
28 Posted 28/04/2014 at 09:24:36
I could not give two shits what happens to the RS, who cares, really? You should all be ashamed worrying about someone else's game. The most important result are our two games, we want maximum points and finish the season in a good way. Nil Satis nisi optimum remember!

The season could go from really good to really disappointing if we don't get European football considering the way we have played this year, the positivity that been around the club etc...

My rant is over bring on Saturday night and let's get European football under our belt and the European tour we could end up going on! COYB!

David Flanagan
29 Posted 28/04/2014 at 09:40:15
For me, it's all about Everton. I can't understand how anyone wants us to lose. The shite are unimportant but our results matter.
Brian Hennessy
30 Posted 28/04/2014 at 09:35:49
Forgetting about Liverpool, I am dreading the thought of Europa league next year.

Without the 40-50 million needed to build a strong enough squad for league/Europa, I can see us finishing mid table next season.

Add to this that most of our league games will be on Sundays, which for me just never feels the same as a Saturday 3pm kick off.

I don't buy into the idea that we can attract better quality players if we are playing in the Europa League, so if we don't get Champions League this year, Man Utd / Spurs are welcome to it.

Bill Griffiths
31 Posted 28/04/2014 at 09:35:22
Simon, you are not an Evertonian nor are any of the others on here who wish us to lose any game whatever the outcome of that game entails.

No true supporter would wish their own team to lose for any reason. The RS are not even guaranteed the title if we do lose.

Andrew Clare
32 Posted 28/04/2014 at 09:54:15
I want us to win every game we play regardless of the situation. Who cares about any other team.

Saturday's game will be very difficult as Man City looked very impressive against CP.

Paul Hughes
33 Posted 28/04/2014 at 09:54:05
No dilemma for me. I want Everton to win every game we play. We need a win to secure 5th place, no way do I want Spurs or United to finish above us.

If our actions contribute to the RS winning the league, so be it, much as I dread the thought and would love Stevie Me's mistake yesterday to haunt him for ever.

I'm looking forward to stuffing City on Saturday, amid a cacophony of "what a waste of money" chants.

Michael Bolt
34 Posted 28/04/2014 at 09:59:02
I have been an Evertonian for 56 years and must admit to always being rather pleased whenever "redshite" lose, which unfortunately hasn't been very often this year. However, I cannot believe fellow blues want us to lose against Man City on Saturday.

For gods sake that is exactly how Liverpool fans think and behave. We are Evertonians and have always been above that sort of bad sportsmanship. Come on lads and girls get behind the team on Saturday and stop worrying about what the Redshite are doing it really doesn't matter.

Phil Bellis
35 Posted 28/04/2014 at 09:48:11
Are you very young, live away from the City, recently chosen or all three? If none of these, my apologies, but there are soooo many Blues who carry scars from the five-nils, semi-finals, Clive Thomas, 2 cup Finals et al that you have to, at least, try to understand.

I'm with the Grand Old Ladies of Kemlyn Road: "Liverpool! tschhh! all fur coat and no knickers; the sooner they're back in the 2nd Division, where they belong, the better."

Now, what was the question, again?

Rick Tarleton
36 Posted 28/04/2014 at 10:13:28
I'm with Matt Geraghty, I don't want Liverpool to win the league, but nor do I want the financial giants to get away with it again.
Rick Tarleton
37 Posted 28/04/2014 at 10:17:30
By the way because I grew up in the fifties, Liverpool are for me, as they were then, a second division team, despite Billy Liddell's heroic efforts.
Malcolm Joyner
38 Posted 28/04/2014 at 10:29:22
Phil, surely the 5nils you refer to as well as the Final defeats were the fault/responsibility of Everton players and managers. What do you expect any opposition to do, lie down and pull their skirts up just because it's Everton?

Clive Thomas is a different question altogether !

Mike Gwyer
39 Posted 28/04/2014 at 10:27:33

Fuck me, a few of you make it sound like it's Oldham popping over for a five-a-side kick about next Saturday. Added to the scenario, I'm hearing Baines is finished for the season.

Man City will give us a game, absolutely no doubt and if we play like we did against Palace or god forbid, like we did on Saturday, then the RS are fucked because City will smash us.

It's a no brainer for me, RS & City are chasing the title and as a blue I'm praying, absolutely praying that Man City win it. It does make me laugh though, RS fans will have to sit in Oslo or wherever it is and watch & pray that Everton try and score a few. I'm not sure what Norwegian is for "Lukaku you lazy fuck, get into box" but I'm sure it will be rife next Saturday evening.

Liam Reilly
40 Posted 28/04/2014 at 10:39:15
Everton first for me always. Whilst there is a change for finshing 4th we need to be winning our remaining games.

I couldn't care less about them but being realistic; beating City wont give them the title, because its won over 38 games; not one. The biggest downside to them winning though is we can all look forward to a Stevie Me movie. Christ.

Mike Hughes
41 Posted 28/04/2014 at 10:30:54
The mixed views demonstrate that the word "dilemma" is very appropriate. But I don't like the sanctimonious "no true supporter" comments etc. Bollocks to that idea.

So here's another perspective.

I want Everton to win their matches and go on to former glories. Does that mean I feel the same about a testimonial, pre-season friendly and a Premier League game? Of course not. Not every match has the same impact.

For me, we have royally screwed 4th place up after it was in our hands with the Palace and Southampton debacles. I think 4th place is gone. I might revise my view after the Arsenal match tonight. 5th or 6th is best we can hope for I think and it is still progress.

But that now lowers the significance of Saturday's match for me. And there is the added dimension of it's outcome potentially benefiting the RS.

I loathe the RS and have experienced their scummy behaviour possibly more than those stating "they don't matter to us". I don't want them to win the league. If they do, it casts an even deeper red shadow across the city, obscuring our profile even further and drawing investment to them and potentially away from us. There are still people in this country and further afield who don't know that Everton is the original club of Liverpool. Their success adversely affects us. In that respect, they matter.

I hope we win and Palace also win. But, as the table stands, our best case is 5th, our worst probably 6th. With the evolution of our style of play, this has been a successful first season for RM with the hope of better to come next season.

For those decrying the moneied clubs of Chelski and Citeh, I agree. But don't exclude the RS from that category as they have thrown money around like confetti these past 25 years. Or are your memories that short?

Also, for those who say other teams don't matter and so on I'd ask the question whether you subscribe to BT Sport, Sky etc because the majority of games on there don't involve the Mighty Blues. If others don't matter, you wouldn't bother. I don't watch any games if EFC aren't involved even on terrestrial and I don't have Sky, BTSport or any other channel.

Trevor Thompson
42 Posted 28/04/2014 at 10:55:53
Mike Gywer, Exactly that. Who'd have thought they'd be begging us to beat Citeh on Saturday? I'd hate to think we actually helped them win the league: Everton help Liverpool to the Premier League title. That's rubbing salt in the wounds and doesn't sit well with me.

Like I said before, if 4th is back on, then I want us to win on Saturday but if it isn't then I'd rather finish 5th or 6th; doesn't matter it still means European football.

Craig Whitham
43 Posted 28/04/2014 at 10:56:41
Whatever happens against Man City will happen. If we win and it hands the RS the title, then at least we have some form of retort that we literally had to win it for them. I simply can't will us to lose no matter what is or isn't at stake. Let's face it, most of 'that lot' are unbearable whether they win or lose anyway, yesterday's hilarious Chelsea fall out being case in point.

Being a bit more pragmatic though, in the bigger picture, it would probably be in our best interests if the RS didn't win the title as IMO it would help put them on a different level entirely to just qualifying for the CL. And like others on here, it's bittersweet to 'celebrate' Chelski or Citeh battering the rest of the league with their chequebook for another year.

Malcolm Joyner
44 Posted 28/04/2014 at 11:02:46
Roberto's dilemma for Saturday will be who to play at left-back. No doubt OFM would opt for Tony Hibbert and that would make some sense. But Bobby may be brave enough to blood Garbutt. I just hope he doesn't bugger about with the defence to play a centre-back in the vacant spot.
Phil Bellis
45 Posted 28/04/2014 at 10:57:40
Malcolm... it's not the defeats per se; it was the aftermath; you had to be there, face the twats in school/at work.

In the old days, the players of both sides showed a bit of class; many of them, after all, were local lads with friends on both sides of the Park. Things got worse in later years - remember the hilarious Emlyn Hughes jibe, the Relegation Party at Villa Park etc....

James Martin
46 Posted 28/04/2014 at 11:21:07
People are right, it is about 'us' first and foremost, but that 'us' is not Everton, it's Everton's fans. We deserve to be happy, god knows we've had precious little of it. If 4th was on the cards then no debate. But what would make us happier, 5th or 6th and losing to Man City or beating Man City to cement 5th?

We messed up our season, Everton have given us nothing tangible to cheer for. Why not cheer the demise of others? It's not bitter, it's not small, it's just normal fan behaviour.

I know full well that Everton can win at home when it means nothing. Beating Man City would prove nothing to me for next season. Having to endure them singing about how we gave them Number 19 would last a lifetime.

Also, if we're truly a big club, we should want to hunt down Liverpool's 18 titles. Rather Man City get 4 than Liverpool 19. Now that's a real bic club mentality. Right?....

Ray Roche
47 Posted 28/04/2014 at 11:45:02
Malcolm, we haven't GOT a spare centre back to play there.
Malcolm Joyner
48 Posted 28/04/2014 at 11:43:18
So it's your grief and discomfort, Phil. Just don't expect me to share it. I don't give a stuff for Liverpool FC - just as I don't give a stuff for the Mancs or the Villa.

But the day I go to a game to want my team to be turned over is the day I'll quit the game for good!

Kevin Gillen
49 Posted 28/04/2014 at 11:48:12
My view is I don't really care about other clubs. I only care about Everton and know we will go out next Saturday to do our very best to win. Whatever else happens is up to the other clubs. If Liverpool win the league well then they will obviously deserve it.

What concerns me is that at the Goodison derby we could and should have beaten them 10-5 and it should have been our club that went on to take the title, not them. This year could have been a great opportunity to reclaim our position at the top of the tree and we have not been strong or good enough to take that chance.

I am only interested in what the Board and Martinez do to strengthen our club for next year. At present, we are still set up to be also-rans, not champions; this has to change.

Tony Byrne
50 Posted 28/04/2014 at 11:57:13
Gutted after that defeat on Saturday but we have still had a good season. Alkaraz & Stones at CH on Saturday against City!!!

It will be a strange feeling going to the match on Saturday with the dilemma of wanting to win or not? If Arsenal turn Newcastle over tonight then it's game over as far as our CL aspirations go for me.

What do fellow blues feel about the city game? It's easy to say that we should lie down & lose but City have actually got a better team/squad than us so they should win. Our record against them says otherwise.

The way the season has gone so far it would not surprise me if the geordies get a crazy result tonight & put us back in with a chance of CL qualification!!

I had to piss myself laughing last night on seeing Stevie me on MOTD2 slip & gift Ba the 1st goal. I have felt nausea's for weeks with the LFC love-in that the media have portrayed for weeks, I even heard that the stalls outside anfield were selling "Premier league champions" T shirts yesterday!!

A potentially bizarre atmosphere at goodison on Saturday!!!

Paul Gallagher
51 Posted 28/04/2014 at 12:02:46
There is no real dilemma, our season ended on Saturday past. Worst-case scenario: we will get our point against Hull, who will probably rest key players for the cup final. RM needs to employ a sports psychologist to address our bottling mentality.
Shane Corcoran
52 Posted 28/04/2014 at 12:17:32
Kevin, 10-5, win the title?

Did you forget this part?

I think you need to try to look at the season a little more impartially. We were very lucky to win against, off the top of my head, Cardiff, Swansea, Chelsea and Hull at home.

Joe Clitherow
53 Posted 28/04/2014 at 12:29:40
My definition is very simple in that I want Everton to win every single game we play, full stop period. Anyone who doesn't share that view doesn't fit my criteria for being a true Evertonian in my opinion.

There are of course some matches I am more upset about us losing than others.

Tony J Williams
54 Posted 28/04/2014 at 12:35:34
I would prefer that we win our remaining games and the Shite get beat by Palace.

Win - win situation.

All those giving it the "you're not Evertonians!", give it a rest, we can enjoy the misgivings of our twatty neighbours almost as much as we enjoy our wins too. Almost as much!

I don't want them to win a thing, I have worked with and argued with too many of the classless pricks to wish them well. We have screwed up fourth so 5th or 6th makes no difference to me now.

Chris Fisher
55 Posted 28/04/2014 at 12:36:49
I couldnt care less about what Liverpool are doing, The only thing I care about is Everton, so come on Newcastle!!!!!
Trevor Thompson
56 Posted 28/04/2014 at 12:30:42
Paul#48, We don't have enough winners in my opinion. We're not used to it and that needs to change. We need fighters not just finger pointers (Phil Neville).
Phil Bellis
57 Posted 28/04/2014 at 12:34:07
Each to their own, Malcolm.

Feelings in this are obviously based on personal angst, bitterness and experience. I wonder if you'd have cheered (as thousands of us did) when McKenzie, Ball and Kendall scored at Goodison for the opposition.

I lean definitely towards the Mike Hughes/James Martin camp but may change my mind when the game kicks off; que sera.

Kevin Tully
58 Posted 28/04/2014 at 12:31:03
There are a few factors that may sway your opinion one way or the other. I suppose if you have reds jumping down your throat every time you walk into work, go for a pint, or generally having to put up with their moronic taunts, you wish nothing but bad luck on the bastards.

As far as wanting Everton to lose a game to prevent the nightmare scenario, I am actually feeling a little conflicted. It goes against every fibre to wish a defeat on the boys in blue, but their victory bus would go past the top of our road!

If 4th is gone by tonight and we can finish 5th by beating Hull on the last day, I will not be too upset if we lose next week, but who wants Everton to lose their last game at Goodison this season? Imagine if we'd scored those two own goals against City?


Joe Clitherow
59 Posted 28/04/2014 at 12:37:23
PS apart from that, the lovable Stevie G's heartbreaking slip yesterday is the funniest thing I've seen on a football field since Eric Cantona's king fu lesson. I laughed like a drain!
Tony J Williams
61 Posted 28/04/2014 at 12:51:22
Couldn't have happened to a nicer fella Joe
Steve Woods
62 Posted 28/04/2014 at 12:48:15
I originally posted this moments ago on another thread, my apologies for posting it again here.

I have been a Blue for coming up to 50 years, sickened in equal measure by the events at Hillsborough and Heysel. I have never, ever wanted us to lose a game, until now. However, should Arsenal win tonight then I will be hoping and praying that City beat us at the weekend. For all the good reasons given by other posters above but especially for the way the RS and the media try to airbrush the Heysel tragedy out of their history. I want us to be a big part of the reason why the RS fail to win the league this term or ever again.

The totally biased and red infected media have been sickening in their constant drip feeding of RS bullshit propaganda since football was invented with the dawning of the Premier League. For the past 24 years (since their last title) according to some deluded RS media "the next season is going to be their season". This past few weeks they have had the chance to win it "in their own hands" and the RS pundits, ex players, celebrities etc. have been everywhere contaminating the air waves. Whatever happened to an impartial or at least balanced media, did such a thing ever exist with regard to the RS?

Am I bitter, yes. Like many of you I could (but won't) go on for pages about everything that stinks and is so unsavoury about that whining, hypocritical club which seems to infect all who enter it from players to managers to supporters and pundits.

Bitter blue for good reasons, you bet! Everton to lose to Man City and stop the RS, you bet! Will that make me feel good for a few years, oh yes! Everton to play against Man City the way we did against Southampton including own goals, yes please!

PS a big shout out for Jose Mourinho, if only more managers and neutrals would stand up and shove it back down the biased throats of the media in the way he did to Jamie Redknapp yesterday. Do you remember him doing similar earlier this season in a match Chelsea played against I think Tottenham? The only 3 studio / grandstand pundits / analysts that day were all RS or ex-RS players or managers (Carragher, Redknapp, Souness) and Jose had the balls to ask during his interview (humorously) "So where are the Spurs and Chelsea pundits?"

Paul Thompson
63 Posted 28/04/2014 at 12:43:35
Let's think about the logic of this. Say for the sake of argument that Everton players took the line of the defeatists on this site and 'threw' the game (by lack of effort) do you think that would be good for the club? No chance. We'd seriously damage our reputation and morale.

One consequence would be the potential loss of a Europa League place. I want to see us do well more than I want to see Liverpool do badly. Of course, in ideal world, I want both, but this no dilemma for me.

Anto Byrne
64 Posted 28/04/2014 at 12:11:25
If the Shite win the league, so be it. Man City will come to win, they are the best team money can buy and of course the Shite have spent big in recent seasons putting together their current outfit. I don't want Everton to roll over for City, in fact I want to see us take full points and to send a message that billions spent wont necessarily buy you the Premier League especially when you have to play Everton, the greatest team the world have ever seen.
Ste Traverse
65 Posted 28/04/2014 at 12:42:15
If Newcastle get a result tonight then we are back in the race for 4th so there isn't a dilemma for me on Saturday. However, with having just lost 5 on the spin, the Geordies seem already on beach and should get another arse-kicking.

Remember after last season's Goodison derby, Stevie G dismissed us as 'Stoke with a few better players' which pissed off Pulis (then Stoke manager) big time. Don't you think he'd love to derail their title bid next week?

Fuck Liverpool FC and their fans. In an ideal world we'd beat Man City (another club I dislike) and Palace turned the RS over leaving the Special One to win the title.

Nigel Gregson
66 Posted 28/04/2014 at 12:21:47
Eight first team injuries. Out of form players like Barkley, Deulofeu and Lukaku who shouldn't be in the first XI anyway. No Barry. Tired players like McCarthy, Coleman and Baines require a rest. So, once we put out a team with whoever's left, it can play to win... :-)

Lets see : Howard Garbutt Stones Alcaraz Hibbert; Osman Gueye McGeady McAleny Browning Naismith? Maybe give Hibbo his well deserved opportunity as lone striker?

Chris Perry
67 Posted 28/04/2014 at 12:59:44
I am absolutely astounded at some of the posts on here saying they want Everton to loose or they don't care if we win or loose. What mentality have people got? It does not matter who wins the leauge, Everton will not, but we must play like we want to win every game. If Everton win against Man City and Arsenal loose tonight, then we are back in with a chance. If Liverpool loose or draw to Crystal Palace and City loose to Everton but win the last two games, the leauge is there for the taking.

To say you want the club you support to loose is one of the saddest comments I have ever heard and I am glad I will not meet any of you!

Malcolm Joyner
68 Posted 28/04/2014 at 12:59:24
Whatever our views on this issue, I'm sure not a single Everton player will be giving a thought to the RS fate. Certainly none of them will be trying other than to win.

For any Evertonian to be so obsessed with hatred that they will be willing them to lose smacks of a troubled childhood to me !

Nicholas Page
69 Posted 28/04/2014 at 13:02:05
"but their victory bus..."

wasn't that out on Sunday, Kev?

Richard Harris
70 Posted 28/04/2014 at 13:07:01
Regardless of what we personally feel about our chances of the Champions League qualifying round (now out of our hands) and LFC winning the title (now out of their hands), if our players and manager can lose at home to Crystal Palace when we needed a result then what will be any different vs Manchester City?

If Yaya Toure is fit, then on the way he has played all season do we really have anyone that can counter his pace, movement and skill?

Phil Bellis
71 Posted 28/04/2014 at 13:09:07

You tell me off with "Just don't expect me to share...(grief and discomfort)."

I never asked you to; you are perfectly entitled to your belief, stance and opinion.

Just don't belittle (or worse, patronise) myself and others for not sharing them.
Wind yer kneck in, please.

Kevin Tully
72 Posted 28/04/2014 at 13:11:06
Malcolm, please don't take this the wrong way - but do you live in Liverpool?

I only ask because you seem so surprised that some Blues would want us to lose to stop 'them' winning the title. About 80% of supporters (all season ticket holders) I have spoken to do not want them to win the title, even if it means we lose on Saturday. Maybe some of them are kidding, but it didn't sound like to me.

Trevor Thompson
73 Posted 28/04/2014 at 13:09:29
Malcom#65. I have indeed had a "troubled childhood". Throughout my childhood I've seen the redshite win the league, beat us numerous times I've lost count and win trophy after trophy. It's even gone on into my adulthood. I hate my tormentors so much I want them to suffer like I have.

Signed, Bitter Blue to the end.

Colin Gee
74 Posted 28/04/2014 at 13:22:37
Remember how bad it was after they beat AC Milan on Penalties?
If they win the League this season it will be a thousand times worse.... All the RS seem to have disappeared somewhere after their defeat yesterday. If they win the League they will be crawling back out of the woodwork again! I don't want them to win a raffle never mind winning the League! Don't forget the Wannabe DJs 'backpass' to Didier Drogba a couple of seasons ago to make that Chelsea won the League rather than Man Utd.
Sam Hoare
75 Posted 28/04/2014 at 13:24:55
If we lose to Man City and Spurs and Man Utd both win, then it will put serious pressure on us to get a result at Hull (who are very good at home) in order to get 5th or 6th.

If we came 7th this season (worst than last year) and missed out on Europa as a consequence then I feel that would be an almighty kick in the teeth.

Admittedly I don't live in Liverpool and appreciate that changes the context a great deal but for me I will, as always, be rooting for Everton on Saturday. Though admittedly if we lose, then beat Hull and City win the league then I will be more content.

Peter Foy
76 Posted 28/04/2014 at 13:23:25
There's is also another really important point to all this. Wanting City to win the league isn't bitter, it's rivalry. Our closest rivals are Liverpool. We come from the same City as do our future supporters. How do you think future 6 year old Evertonians will feel about seeing the shite winning the league. I'm sure Elstone is more than aware that this will have a huge detrimental effect on the club as a business. So in the name of the long term future of the club, assuming Arsenal win tonight, I absolutely hope we get beat by City.
Micky Norman
77 Posted 28/04/2014 at 13:35:38
This is a must-win game for us. Just like every game.
Harold Matthews
78 Posted 28/04/2014 at 13:32:42
After the rubbish versus Saints, I'll be looking for a top performance. Couldn't care whether L'pool finish top or bottom. Who are they anyway?
Steve Woods
79 Posted 28/04/2014 at 13:44:45
Peter @73

Good shout that Peter and not one that I had considered but a very valid point.

Peter Bell
80 Posted 28/04/2014 at 13:51:32
The RS deliberately lost their last game of 2010 to stop Man Utd winning the league, does anyone think their supporters were bothered.
Nick Entwistle
81 Posted 28/04/2014 at 13:52:27
1 game for one league championship? Bargain.
Brent Stephens
82 Posted 28/04/2014 at 13:42:23
The question is being put as to whether we want to lose to Man City to stop the RS winning the league. But it doesn't work like that. We lose to Man City, they can still end up getting the league.

So those saying "hope we lose to Man City" might get their wish AND see RS winning PL. Then what will they think if we don't get 4th, or even 5th or 6th?

Come on everybody!

Mike Hughes
83 Posted 28/04/2014 at 13:48:01
Harold #75

"Couldn't care whether L'pool finish top or bottom. Who are they anyway?"


I think the overwhelming majority of Evertonians would love Liverpool to finish bottom rather than top regardless of their diverging views on the topic related to this thread.

Nick Entwistle
84 Posted 28/04/2014 at 14:05:19
Ahh but Brent. We don't get a choice. We're really just gauging where our post match feelings will be.

City win and all they've got to do is beat Villa and West Ham at home. I like those odds.

Richard Lyons
85 Posted 28/04/2014 at 13:53:41
Careful what you wish for! Imagine the double-whammy nightmare of us losing out on both 6th/7th place, AND that lot being champions...

Anyway, I can't believe this is anything more than a philosophical dilemma. Martinez will surely be getting the players pumped up to go for a victory. I hope that if we lose, we at least play like we want to win!

Martin Kulkarni
86 Posted 28/04/2014 at 13:48:25
I'm as blue as they come (except my politics) and I don't live in the area, but I hope we lose to Man City. I am still intending to travel to Liverpool from Wallsend to see it hpefully come to pass. I hate that scum like nothing else. Let's face it anyway, we can wish for what we want either way, but can anyone see our apology of a team getting anything other than a defeat against Man City! Mind you top 4 should be gone so we probably will. We only lose when the chance to step up arises!!

Eugene @8 class as always. You I mean not LFC supporters!

Paul Tran
87 Posted 28/04/2014 at 14:12:08
Look, if we're going on the hope ticket, how about:

We beat City and Hull
Arsenal lose to Newcastle and Norwich
Liverpool lose a fractious bad-tempered 1-0 to Palace.
City beat Villa and West Ham

We finish 4th, City win league on goal difference.

Robert Stroud
88 Posted 28/04/2014 at 14:16:44
Well, I had a feeling it may come down to the Everton v Man City game at Goodison Park next week.

Prior to Chelsea's win yesterday, I was hoping the match would not have a bearing on Liverpool's attempt to win the league.

It will certainly be a strange occasion...

Craig Walker
89 Posted 28/04/2014 at 14:14:46
This is a game that we can't really lose as Evertonians. Win the game or even draw and we can remind the RS of what we did for them. Lose the game and we can laugh about it for years to come.

I'm not an Evertonian who has a soft spot for them lot and I make no apologies for it. The media have been waiting for their coronation and yesterday wasn't in the script. As one or two other posters have expressed better than I could, their former players are all over the media pushing this media-friendly image of LFC whilst neglecting to discuss anything negative about them. I feel that if they don't win it this year then it will be years before their time will come again. Playing in Europe and a much stronger Man United will seriously impact them in future.

Mike Hughes
90 Posted 28/04/2014 at 14:07:14
Brent #79

In my view, the rs winning the Prem is far more harmful to Everton than us finishing 5th, 6th or even 7th.

Harold's view "who are they?" could be humorous but could also be deluded.

"They" suck all of the attention from us in this city. "They" also suck most of any finance going as they will be a bigger income for the city than EFC. "They" have done more damage to Everton than any other club (Heysel, ban from Europe when we were at our peak, big v small club, media hype including the local paper). Any Evertonian not taking "them" into account is burying their head in the sand.

And, further to earlier posts, I'm not saying we should throw the game. We're a professional club and won't do that. I just won't be as upset as usual if we do lose this one particular game.

The big picture is getting Everton on the national and global map. I travel across the UK. There are people who don't know we are in Liverpool. People assume you're from here, you must support the shite. In Europe, I have had work colleagues not being very familiar with us.

Let's hope we can start putting ourselves on the map by winning silverware from next season. For me, we have blown 4th place this year. If we have to emerge from an even bigger red shadow of our neighbours being champions, it will be even harder.

Regardless of this coming weekend's results, if EFC win, lose or draw, I really would hate the RS to win the Prem for all of the above reasons because it does adversely affect us.

Patrick Murphy
91 Posted 28/04/2014 at 14:16:40
It'll be interesting to see how the Magpies play tonight - will they carry on with their poor form or will they be up and at Arsenal? I have a sneaky feeling that they will give it a right good go tonight and if they got a result it would really alter the dynamics.

Don't count on 3 points at Hull City as they have to play Villa and United before we go there and they might still be under threat of relegation on the last day. I wish this City game had been our last match of the season.

It's amazing that with only 24 PL matches to play nothing at the top or bottom of the league has been settled yet.

Champions League is still not out of the question despite our defeat on Saturday - of course it is unlikely but it is at this moment in time anyway still possible.
Wake me up on May 12 and tell me what's happened as there is far too much to fret over on the football front in the coming fortnight.

Steve Woods
92 Posted 28/04/2014 at 14:24:34
Mike @ 87

Spot on, well said.

Brian Denton
93 Posted 28/04/2014 at 14:27:40
Patrick, that is the sort of insane optimism that I like!

To be honest, I would be surprised [very] if Newcastle 'give it a go'. The only chance for us is if Arsenal have one of those games where the ball just won't go in - hit bar, post, defender's arse etc etc. There is no way the Barcodes will put in the sort of shift which would win the game on merit.

Brian Denton
94 Posted 28/04/2014 at 14:36:34
Phil Bellis (68) absolutely spot on. The cardinal crime on this site is - so Michael tells us - to call a fellow Blue 'less of an Evertonian', 'not an Evertonian' etc. As far as I can see none of the 'better to lose ' ToffeeWebbers have questioned the supporting credentials of those holding the other point of view; but there have been plenty doing it the other way round.
Dave Richman
95 Posted 28/04/2014 at 14:16:24
As was the case with Trevor Thompson, I also had an extremely troubled period in my life..... Not my childhood, but my adolescent years were filled with dreading school / work every Monday, having to put up with locals here in SA (none of whom had ever been within 6,000 miles of Anfield) who epitomise the definition of plastic fans / glory hunters / bandwagon hoppers crowing about 'the Mighty Reds' - but unable to recite the words of that song when challenged nor ever know who their reserve goalie was.

I bear those scars to this day, and having endured the mid 70s to mid 80s with the 5-0 / Clive Thomas / Souness, Case etc / Hansen at Wembley 84 / Heysel / European ban / cup finals 86 & 89 and so many more, I cannot fathom ANY Evertonian that would prefer that shower to win the league over any other side.

Those bastards robbed us of what could have been the greatest period in our long history - thanks to them we will never know - and I will never ever forgive them for it.

Jim Lloyd
96 Posted 28/04/2014 at 14:44:03
Without any doubt, I want City to beat us. I want that because it lessens the chances of lfc winning the league.

Bitter, no I'm not. I would put money on their supporters wanting to lose a match (even missing the europa league by doing so) if it meant a) Everton winning the League or b) Everton being relegated.

When we were in dire straits in the Wimbledon year, they had a blue painted coffin ready to ceremonially bury us in the Mersey.

I see already the bloody papers are (some of them...no, most of them) putting our bastard offspring back on their (the media) pedestal of Kings of Football.

Dave (92 ) I agree 100%

Jim Lloyd
97 Posted 28/04/2014 at 14:55:30
PS, Don't run and hide Simon, it was a a good post. there are many who agree with you.
Kevin Tully
98 Posted 28/04/2014 at 14:53:58
Every time we have lost this season we have always won the next game. We have also beaten Man City for the past 4 years at Goodison Park......

The reds are revving the engine on that bus again!

Norman Merrill
99 Posted 28/04/2014 at 14:50:59
Richard Harris, 67. Spot on mate, my thoughts to a tee.

Although I was beginning to think City did not seemed fired up enough but now that Toure & Aguero are both fit, And with Barry & Mirallas missing, they will have too much for us.

Alex Higgins
100 Posted 28/04/2014 at 15:00:17
Has anybody considered that both Everton v Man City and Crystal Palace v Liverpool end in draws. Status Quo: order of day. We get a point closer to Europe and keep our pride.
Ed Staunton
101 Posted 28/04/2014 at 15:15:04
At the end of the day it’s out of our hands. Even if we throw the game, we might not get the end result we want. Also, Man City is a good side; they may beat us if we want or not. So I will cheer us on to win & will be happy if we win & I won’t be sad if we don’t.
Ian Burns
102 Posted 28/04/2014 at 14:48:04
I have followed EFC for more than 50 years (can't believe I've just typed that - old twat I am). Like everybody else on here I simply do not want LFC to win the league - I was hoarse screaming for a Chelsea win yesterday; I lost count of the number of times I spilt me gin.

I had also read that morning that Brenda was upset that Carragher was not at the club this season to "receive a league winner's medal" - that wound me up no end for the Chelsea game I can tell you.

That said, there isn't a scenario where I would ever want EFC to lose a game and when the City games kicks off this weekend, I will be on TW Live moaning and praising in spades like the rest of the guys on the site. Reading the differing views on the outcome is going to make an extremely interesting 2 hours this weekend on TW Live!! Bring it on but wishing for an EFC loss - never - not for me guys.

James Stewart
103 Posted 28/04/2014 at 15:11:59
If Arsenal beat Newcastle 4th is gone so losing to City doesn't matter.

If Newcastle get something out the game, then it's a dilemma!

Jamie Barlow
104 Posted 28/04/2014 at 15:17:56
Imagine if we'd have saved the two own goals from last week for the City match. There would be some questions asked then.
Bob Skelton
105 Posted 28/04/2014 at 15:15:03
As a die hard Everton Season ticket holder I would always want my Blue Boys to win.

The discussion here regarding wanting us to lose on Saturday is in my opinion fairly academic. I keep picturing Yaya Toure in a 50/50 tackle with Osman or the Barcelona boy and can only see one outcome. We will try our best but I think that the paucity of the squad will eventually be our downfall and the natural result will involve the RS getting the result that they do not want......

I for one will then give rousing support to a team that has made me smile all season, played good football and made me think that we may well have replaced Moyes knife with Bobbies Bazooka.

Ray Robinson
106 Posted 28/04/2014 at 15:30:59
Well, the merits of both sides of the argument are compelling but I would ask some further questions. Why are the RS playing Palace a day after our game? It surely gives them a potential advantage knowing what they have to do? Secondly, I expect the gate to be less than capacity on Saturday, despite it being sold out. After all, why would any Evertonian who wants Everton to get beat actually bother to turn up? And where does it stop? Do we actually cheer when City score?

No, still can't bring myself to want City to win.

Peter Bell
107 Posted 28/04/2014 at 15:45:00
Ray, are you actually saying you have never heard of Sky television and Monday night football
Michael Kenrick
108 Posted 28/04/2014 at 15:39:00
I think Brent nails it:

All this talk about "what would you prefer" (RS champs or chumps; us 4th or 5th etc) is computer game stuff and unreal. We might not be having much influence on the outcome.

For me, as always, it's one game at a time, and you can neither chose nor predict the results. The Premier League title and all the finishing positions are determined by all 38 games each side plays. Somewhere, this simple reality seems to have gotten lost in this FM mindset.

As for the few playing the "not Everton supporters" line, Brent is again right: I abhor such talk. Clearly for some Everton supporters, there is a dilemma; for others, not. However, it's not the first time and won't be the last, that the diversity of opinion revealed in these threads will inevitably be lost on some who want us all to be homogenized.

Robin Cannon
109 Posted 28/04/2014 at 15:40:35
"Not an Evertonian" for wanting us to lose? No. But maybe petty, small minded and bitter Evertonians who choose to define us purely against what the RS do or don't achieve.

Would I love them to tank the league? It'd be hugely amusing. At the expense of even a moment of Everton putting in the absolute maximum effort in to win a match? No.

And if I think about the bigger picture, there's part of me that actually wants them to win the league. Manchester City are the epitome of everything that is wrong with football in this country. The less success they have the more chance there is for managerial instability there and for them to fail to take full benefit of their ridiculous financial advantage. The RS, for all their sins, are not the same kind of threat to the landscape of English football as a Manchester City team with essentially completely unlimited funds, if they ever start to settle into success.

Ray Robinson
110 Posted 28/04/2014 at 15:49:01
Peter #105. Of course I have, but why do all clubs lick off at the same time on the last day of the season? Think about it - why is this case (albeit second to last game) any different?
Alan Williams
111 Posted 28/04/2014 at 15:46:47
To all you Everton fans who just don't get why we hate them so much, please check out one of their famous flags in the Kop yesterday: https://twitter.com/efc_pablo/status/460488220284026880/photo/1
Offended by everything, ashamed of nothing, two-faced scum bags the lot of them and only choose the scouse card when it suits them. It seems 39 Italian fans and the demise of EFC is worthy of their humour, this is why they are the most hated team in the league! Media apart. Today the nation smiles at their expense.
Peter Bell
112 Posted 28/04/2014 at 15:46:40
Let's make this quite clear, previous to this weekend there was not a RS supporter who wanted us to get into the CL spot. Now they are all praying we do by beating City. They can all fuck right off.
Trevor Thompson
113 Posted 28/04/2014 at 15:58:15
Back in '94 I remember a good friend of mine who was a Red wanting us to get relegated. I couldn't understand why at first, after all, he was a mate. Surely he wouldn't want to see me in misery? Just shows that it's only football, innit.
Jeremy Buckley
114 Posted 28/04/2014 at 16:05:06
I've never subscribed to this "bitter blue" reputation; bitter about what precisely?!
Craig Whitham
115 Posted 28/04/2014 at 15:43:32
Ray (104) it could work the other way. If City beat us then it amps up the pressure on the RS to do likewise to Palace. It would be lovely to get a repeat of yesterday were they fail to score early, get impatient and desperate with Stevie GBH going into Roy of the Rovers mode trying and failing to win the game single-handed.

Also the atmosphere will be interesting at the weekend, but I can't see it being like the Southampton game (against West Brom I think) a few years ago where their fans were actively willing and cheering for their team to lose to send Portsmouth down on the last day.

Craig Walker
116 Posted 28/04/2014 at 16:01:29
Robin #107 - I know what you mean about City and their money but I don't actually mind them. In some ways I think they're similar to us in that they're always in the shadows of their neighbours in red and have never really had the same attention as their more successful neighbours. They've got a loyal following and were getting gates of 30,000 plus when they were in the 3rd tier of English football. If rumours are to be true, the Sheiks were seriously looking at Everton when they decided to buy City but plumped for them because of their ground.

Let's not fall for the RS propaganda that their team has been pieced together on a shoestring.

For all those who don't mind the RS winning the league, think about those occasions where they have hammered us and then started singing "3-0 in your cup final" or the "10 more years of Moyes" chants at Wembley. Think about possibly having to sit through the open top bus tour which every TV channel will feel compelled to show. Think about their gloating RS fans who won't let it drop. No thanks! I hate 'em.

Mike Hughes
117 Posted 28/04/2014 at 16:04:49
Robin #107

"Not an Evertonian" for wanting us to lose? No. But maybe petty, small minded and bitter Evertonians who choose to define us purely against what the RS do or don't achieve."

I'm quite happy with the petty, small-minded and bitter tag.

But your premise is incorrect - that I (we) "define us purely against what the rs do or don't achieve".

It's simply an incorrect statement that indicating lack of comprehension of previous posts and fellow Blues.

Unlike you, I won't dignify the rs by the use of capitals.
Unlike you I won't even suggest for the briefest moment that part of me might want the rs to win the league.

You use City's money as the basis of your "root of all evil" argument. In the history of the Prem, I'm not sure where expenditure between City and the rs stand but I'm confident if the rs have spent less than City, it's not by much.

That'll be another flaw in your argument.

Petty, small-minded and bitter?
Why? Because I see the bigger picture of how the rs winning the league will damage EFC - and you don't?

I'm not sure what that makes you.

Richard Lyons
118 Posted 28/04/2014 at 16:00:41
I think we'll beat City.

There, I've officially put the mockers on it, as is my custom, so we'll lose - and I will be happy if that means the others don't get to be champions.

Brian Harrison
119 Posted 28/04/2014 at 16:16:09
I am sure that RM and the players will want to win on Saturday, but I can only imagine the only way the fans will want us to win on Saturday, is if by some miracle Newcastle win by a couple of goals tonight. Should 4th not be achievable then I will quite happily settle for 5th or 6th as long as the other lot don't win the league.
Peter Foy
120 Posted 28/04/2014 at 16:17:24
Robin, If it wasn't for City's millions, the redshite would have continued to qualify for the Champions League without interruption. Everything that is wrong with football. Come on.

This FFP shite would only be fair if we were all starting from the same point, within a level playing field, but we're not. It's designed to maintain the status quo and nothing more. I agree with Craig. If City never got that cash, how else would they compete? They wouldn't.

Dean Adams
121 Posted 28/04/2014 at 16:21:57
For me, love Everton, hate LFC (the Shite). They have always shit on our doorstep to spoil our good times. The word for me would be retribution, pure and simple and to not take full advantage would be allowing them to continue being churlish.
Dave Lynch
122 Posted 28/04/2014 at 16:14:28

I hate the bastards, every last one of the victim mentality, divine right, blameless fuckers.

I remember that final day of the season, our sponsor was one to one and they had T-shirts printed with gone to one on them and had banners in pubs with RIP Everton, one city one club emblazoned on them.

The pubs where chokka with the bastards gloating and willing us to go down, so FUCK every last one of them.

When they say or do anything, it's all harmless fun but anything against them is seen in victim mode.

I would laugh in the face of every one of them if we got Twatted by City and it cost them the league, our push starts next season as Roberto will have moulded his team his way by then.

I'm making no apologies for this post, it's the way I feel.

Robin Cannon
123 Posted 28/04/2014 at 16:19:43
Yes, I think it's petty and small minded to ever want Everton to lose a game because it assists or otherwise another team. Bitter in particular when it's a desire for Everton to fail in order for the RS to fail.

The RS winning the league will damage us no more than it ever has in the past.

Far more damaging is the overall impact on football in England (and yes, overall in expenditure I'm sure the RS and City are pretty close in the Premier League era, but trying to suggest there is some kind of legitimate comparison given the unlimited oil oligarch funds since the Arab takeover is farcical) for City to really start to consolidate a dynasty backed by financial security that makes Abramovich's Chelsea money pale into insignificance.

And it's an impact that undermines us more than anyone; because it further emphasizes the idea of Everton as the fourth of four big northwest clubs.

Nicholas Page
124 Posted 28/04/2014 at 16:12:25
"There's part of me that actually wants them to win the league."

Robin #107, take a cold shower fella. Everyone I know who's into footy be it Chelsea, Spurs, Man Utd, Palace etc etc of a similar age (40-odd) sees this as THE worst outcome and I absolutely concur. Much worse than the shower of fucks fluking the CL in 2005. The scenes pre-match on Sunday should tell you all you need to know.

Peter Foy
125 Posted 28/04/2014 at 16:26:14
On paper, with our injuries, City should win. But, I think it's an absolute certainty that we'll get three penalties. Kopites are getting right onto as we speak. Pity Baines might be out. How funny would that be? Everton miss three pens.
Ray Robinson
126 Posted 28/04/2014 at 16:28:58
So, I repeat my question. Those of you who want Everton to lose on Saturday to spite our neighbours, will you actually turn up if you already have a ticket? I can perhaps understand the sentiment better, if you stated that you were intending to stay away from the match.
Dave Lynch
127 Posted 28/04/2014 at 16:34:46
I'm going......

I'll be able to recount to the gobshites every gory detail of the game.

Mike Hughes
128 Posted 28/04/2014 at 16:32:03
Robin #121

"The RS winning the league will damage us no more than it ever has in the past."

Another flawed argument because the damage to us in the past was immense. But you can simply accept further damage on the basis of it being no worse than it was in the past?

Or to use your own words from an earlier post, "there's part of me that actually wants them to win the league."

Er ...... (scratches head and checks this is ToffeeWeb and not 442 magazine)

I rest my case. No further comments.

Thomas Surgenor
129 Posted 28/04/2014 at 16:33:56
How about, "We dont care what the redshite say"?

I do NOT want us to roll over to City. I want Everton to go out with the integrity to win every game.

However, if Arsenal win tonight and effectively seal 4th spot, then I dont want Jags/Baines risked if half-fit. Baines/Jags etc should only play if 4th place is up for grabs. If not, give the youngsters a chance in a huge game and let them see how far off the pace they are.

If anything, it might give them a reality bite and get them to knuckle down in training. (eg, Vellios comes across like he thinks he has made it already... let him see how far from the finished article he really is and see if he knuckles down to improve.)

Same with Garbutt... maybe even Ledson get an appearance as a reward for his hardwork? But only if 4th isnt up for grabs. We should never go out to intentionally loose. We should always play the match for the better of our club! So if the 4th is gone and the opportunity for us to play a weakened youthful side presents itself... then go for it... but only to BETTER our progress.

Liverpool should never factor into it. What abuse would be worse? hearing them crow about their league victory or moan about how we rolled over?

Thomas Surgenor
130 Posted 28/04/2014 at 16:42:06
ps: I meant to say...

Dont let them use us as an excuse for their failure! It’ll hurt them more when they fail on their own.

Mike Hughes
131 Posted 28/04/2014 at 16:40:36
Ray #124

I'm not going the match. If we win, I hope it doesn't hand the title to the rs. That's why I would be torn.

Just to ram the message home for those who don't get it, the rs winning the league would massively damage EFC, much more than us finishing 5th, 6th or 7th.

I can't be arsed going over the reasons why as it's posted earlier in this thread. People can like it, lump it or bury their heads in the sand. But it's a fact and it truly is a dilemma. My argument is not simply a loathing of the rs, it's also based on commercial reasons. We would be even further behind in a 2 team city that barely acknowledges us now. Try walking through John Lennon Airport if you don't believe me.

Phil Bellis
132 Posted 28/04/2014 at 16:42:24
Robin Cannon

Jesus, son, get a grip

I know Roberto will quite rightly send out his team to win but I really think Hibbo deserves a chance up front and the Toffee Girl should get an outing in goal

The above was an attempt at humour - poor, agreed, but it's Monday

Brian Denton
133 Posted 28/04/2014 at 16:54:51
Mike Hughes (129):

"We would be even further behind in a 2 team city that barely acknowledges us now."

So true, Mike. I can't understand why this doesn't get through. Though I accept it, I accept it ; I'm not saying those with other views are bad Evertonians or lesser Evertonians for Christ's sake.

Mike Hughes
134 Posted 28/04/2014 at 17:01:51
Brian -

I didn't say that those with other views are bad Evertonians or lesser Evertonians.

Those bad or lesser accusations seem to be made at not by those who are taking my position.

Chris Butler
135 Posted 28/04/2014 at 16:49:02
The atmosphere will be very strange on Saturday particularly if Arsenal win tonight. Most of our fans are in a difficult position, yes we can secure Europa league football but we will also hand them the title. If Chelsea had beaten Sunderland we wouldn't have been in this dilemma. I will be happy if we win and relatively happy if we lose because we won't have handed the RS the title.
Patrick Murphy
136 Posted 28/04/2014 at 17:10:18
Whilst I understand the pros and cons of this argument there is one absolute truth that the RS hate us more than any club in the world and it was proven on May 18 1985 when Norman Whiteside scored the winner at Wembley, there wasn't a red-nose anywhere in the country who wanted Everton to win that particular day and even celebrated wildly in front of their TV sets - I have to take that on what I have been told because I was at Wembley. Also the thing that annoyed me as much as anything else was when we were going through a difficult period they and the media were happy to make United their derby game.

Whatever happens I also hope that the other lot don't win the title because it will be a media frenzy with every day-time News programme etc filled to the rafters with hangers-on and regaling us with stories of Shanks, Paisley et al along with the wit and wisdom of the Oslo based Kop.

Brian Waring
137 Posted 28/04/2014 at 17:02:18
" previous to this weekend there was not a RS supporter who wanted us to get into the CL spot. Now they are all praying we do by beating City. "

also Peter, it's funny the amount of redshite fans hoping that Newcastle beat Arsenal tonight because it will keep us up for the Man City game.

Brian Waring
138 Posted 28/04/2014 at 17:02:18
" previous to this weekend there was not a RS supporter who wanted us to get into the CL spot. Now they are all praying we do by beating City. "

also Peter, it's funny the amount of redshite fans hoping that Newcastle beat Arsenal tonight because it will keep us up for the Man City game.

Brian Waring
139 Posted 28/04/2014 at 17:02:18
" previous to this weekend there was not a RS supporter who wanted us to get into the CL spot. Now they are all praying we do by beating City. "

also Peter, it's funny the amount of redshite fans hoping that Newcastle beat Arsenal tonight because it will keep us up for the Man City game.

Mark Berry
140 Posted 28/04/2014 at 17:20:17
No dilemma for me - I want Newcastle to turn up at The Emirates tonight and give us something to play for on Saturday.

Now project forward and imaging next years Champions League Semi Final and the chance to turn over the dark side in a game that really matters.

I can dream, yes, but we must be in the Champions League in the first place.

Barry Earley
141 Posted 28/04/2014 at 17:30:49
I've just heard that Clattenburg has been given the Palace rs game!!!!!!!

Stunning. Absolutely stunning.

Patrick Murphy
142 Posted 28/04/2014 at 17:36:41
Lee Probert is the referee for Saturday's game at Goodison.
Jamie Carroll
143 Posted 28/04/2014 at 17:16:40
For any Evertonian who lives outside of the city and wants Everton to win on Saturday, spare a thought for the Everton fans who live in the city and would have to listen to Liverpool fans singing "Everton won us the league" mercilessly time after time. Theres a thought...
Steve Woods
144 Posted 28/04/2014 at 17:33:19
Barry @ 139

That's staggering, I am not usually one for conspiracy theories and the like but flipping' 'eck how much pimping do the FA want Clattenburg to do for the rs this season! Will it be a couple of pens awarded before half time just to make sure Palace lose interest in the game and start focusing on their holidays? FFS.

Geoff Harrison
145 Posted 28/04/2014 at 17:35:18
By the nature of a dilemma, there will be very compelling arguments on both sides. Obviously some people will take an extreme view. For those individuals, there is no dilemma.

For me, there is most definitely a conflict of interests. But I think I know what I think. And it’s going to be weird.

James Marshall
146 Posted 28/04/2014 at 17:41:33
A poll would be nice on here, though we'll just be seen as 'bitter blues' for sure.

Personally I'd be happy to lose against City and pick up a point against Hull to be sure of a European place. The CL is all but over.

Actually I'll never be happier than is we lose to City. Weird eh.

Paul Smith
147 Posted 28/04/2014 at 17:49:12
I'm really torn in regards of this one.

On the one hand, I'd love us to beat Shitteh, then again, The Shite winning the league is unpalatable to say the least.

I guess the best outcome is The Arse lose tonight then it's a no brainer! We have to beat Shitteh hands down on Saturday.

I will reserve my right to wait until after tonight's game, before I resolve my ambivalence.

Brian Denton
148 Posted 28/04/2014 at 17:55:01
Mike 132, sorry I must have badly-worded my previous post. I take your line, and was merely saying that I understand the other line and won't accuse people who take it of being bad Evertonians. As I stated in my earlier post, the only ones flinging out that accusation are the people who take the opposite view to ours. I certainly wasn't accusing you of calling people bad Evertonians!
Brian Denton
149 Posted 28/04/2014 at 17:58:44
The point above, about how the media (with RS acquiescence) have made the derby = Liverpool v Man Utd, is very pertinent.
Dan Forde
150 Posted 28/04/2014 at 17:43:13
Id just like to remind everyone who thinks we should try to beat Man City and in doing so hand the Prem title to the RS. I urge you to please recall whos fault it was in the 80s (cause and effect) that made us miss out on Europe, lose are most successful manager of all time and caused an exodus of a title winning team that changed our history forever.

We all know it, its in our DNA but it has to said again for the younger blues. If you are on Twitter or Facebook please try to filter this message to as many Blues as possible and players if at all possible. The alternative is to see Stevie Germs poxy creased phizog holding the Prem Trophy aloft on Skysports, BTsports, ESPN and MotD for the rest of our lives. We have to throw this game.

Keith Young
151 Posted 28/04/2014 at 18:00:42
I say let nature take its course. If we play exciting football against City and win I'm sure we'll be proud and in the Mourinho manner say " the RS needed us for them to better City". However, if " nature takes its course " and lose we'll quietly smile....Either way we do not want a bore draw ( except to keep MU below us).
Mike Hughes
153 Posted 28/04/2014 at 18:29:06
Brian #146 - apologies for mis-reading your post.

(I was in "nark" mode after being labelled small-minded, petty and bitter by someone else who was more small-minded than me!)

Mike Hughes
154 Posted 28/04/2014 at 18:32:49
James #144

I don't think a poll would be useful here. Polls tend to segregate things into black and white and this dilemma is far more complex. It would also make those who wouldn't be heartbroken if EFC were to lose look like they were:

(a) prepared to throw the match which I wouldn't want to happen or
(b) small-minded when I would actually argue the small-minded ones are those who don't see the far greater damage to EFC of the rs winning the title.

But in this situation, EFC might win a small, quickly-forgotten battle while the rs win a historic, much celebrated, rub-everyone's-noses-in-it war.

Paul Ferry
155 Posted 28/04/2014 at 18:49:39
Simon and me appear to be roughly the same age coming of age in the Paisley times and I completely understand how Simon feels and yes mate you are a true blue!

I, on the other hand, am all over the place on this one but just grateful after the last seven days that the Shite are now in a position to lose the title. I didnt think that would happen but every bone and breath in me is to quote Alan Birchenall on a windy day in 1975 after a narrow Leicester win over the moon.

Mr Griffith, seeing as you seem to be in the seat of judgment, is it okay for me to hope that we draw on Sunday get the point we need and for the shite to lose or grudgingly this draw at the super Eagles?

Colin Glassar
156 Posted 28/04/2014 at 19:15:24
IF Arsenal win tonight. IF WHU beat Spurs. IF Sunderland can beat or draw with Man Utd. Then I don’t care if we lose on Saturday as we will have 5th place secured.
IF Arsenal lose. IF Spurs and Man Utd win on Saturday then we need to beat Man City on Saturday even if that means handing the title to the RS. It’s that friggin simple.
Kunal Desai
157 Posted 28/04/2014 at 18:45:19
I have a feeling that Palace and Pulis will get stuck into the RS and will get something out of that game, they are playing on monday night therefore the pressure will really be on them.
A draw for us on saturday would mean that it wouldn't guarantee the shite the title if Palace do the business.
James Marshall
158 Posted 28/04/2014 at 19:23:17
I live near Palace, I might go down there in an Everton scarf.
Ray Said
159 Posted 28/04/2014 at 19:24:38
I cant ever say I have wanted Everton to lose a game. I would want us to win even if we were playing a charity game against 80 year old nuns who needed to win to save the nunnery from the bulldozers.
I want us to beat City, I don't care about the other shower but I don't ever wish for us to lose a game-it creates a bad mindset and we should go out to win everything from the toss to the last corner.
Brin Williams
160 Posted 28/04/2014 at 19:15:08
Totally agree with you Mike - just hate the bastards and everything about them and their ilk.
Dave Lynch
161 Posted 28/04/2014 at 19:31:23
As stated the FA have given the game to Clattenburg.

Nobody ever tell me that this isn't contrived, I am gonna have a tenner on them getting 2 penalties.

Neil Steele
162 Posted 28/04/2014 at 19:32:34
Steaua Bucuresti 1986 with a picture of the European Cup..that was the banner on the Kop a few years ago? "Real Evertonian"..."I could never want us to lose"..ha ha, I hope we get battered. Rivalry is a perfectly normal part of football, always has been, always will be. One loss in an essentially meaningless game, or hand Liverpool FC the Premier League title? Wow, i'm surprised any "real Evertonian" would need to think about that for more than a millisecond. Football has gone soft, the average man has become a namby pamby fraud of what he should be.
Barry Thompson
163 Posted 28/04/2014 at 19:35:52
FTRS-I wouldn't give those bastards the steam of my piss, in fact I would rather my Mrs give me shit sarnies for my carrying out from now until the start of next season than assist those gobshites.
Fuck Saurez, fuck Gerrard, fuck Carragher and fuck Rednapp and the rest of the redshite media pundits.

Please accept my apologies for sitting on the fence.
John Hughes
164 Posted 28/04/2014 at 19:42:46
I'd go as far to say that we should play "Blue Moon" instead of Z cars on Saturday!
Brin Williams
165 Posted 28/04/2014 at 19:46:27
Barry, Watch you don't fall off the fence into your shit sarnies.

When you say shit sarnies do you mean shit sarnies or 'shit' sarnies.

(Seems this bloody machine of mine knows sod all about 'sarnies' and keeps typing sardines - fucking useless)

Mike Green
166 Posted 28/04/2014 at 19:42:19
We will hold up our side of the bargain on Saturday and draw with City, handing the title to LFC and putting the final nail in our CL dreams in one fail swoop.

The part we play putting the championship back in their hands will be acknowledged briefly, but soon forgotten and airbrushed from history.

Karl Jones
167 Posted 28/04/2014 at 19:55:45
Barry, completely agree with your point of view!
Brian Denton
168 Posted 28/04/2014 at 19:49:55
For our younger viewers, 159 Neil's reference above is to the 1986 European Cup Final where Steaua of Roumania became the only Iron Curtain (Communist) team to win the European Cup. They won on penalties against Barcelona after 0-0 in normal and extra time, after what is widely agreed to be the worst ever Final.

England's representatives, who would probably have beaten Steaua and Barcelona put together, were a team who played in blue but were not allowed unfortunately to play in the European Cup that year.

Not bitter.

Colin Glassar
169 Posted 28/04/2014 at 19:58:58
It’s up to Newcastle then?
Robert Workman
170 Posted 28/04/2014 at 19:39:55
I have read quite a few comments on recent threads from Evertonians who believe that Man Utd will win their remaining 3 games and Spurs will win their 2 games, while Everton will lose their last 2 - therefore finishing 7th. Why such pessimism?

I have no crystal ball (evidence - Lawrenson has already beaten me in our Everton predictions for this season!). However I am willing to predict that the above combination of results will not happen. For starters I can't see Everton losing their last 3 (inc Southampton) games.

Here is an alternative scenario :- Everton may be in the Europa League without kicking a ball on saturday. Spurs could lose at West Ham in the early kick off.

Regarding the focus of this thread, I cannot want Everton to lose any game. I suggest those who want a City win do not actually watch the game, thus sparing themselves the torment of :-
(a) not cheering if Everton score or
(b) feeling pleased if they concede.

There is another assumption that Everton beating City will hand the title to the redshite. It is not the last game of the season. There will still be points to be won and lost after saturday - so why not cheer on The Blues?

You know that you want to!

David Hallwood
171 Posted 28/04/2014 at 20:04:36
Here's another scenario: we beat Citteh 3-0, the RS turn Palace over 4-0 in a twattenberg inspired victory. All eyes on Mordor the last game of the season, the media wetting their collective knickers at the crowning of the champions.............................Then the barcodes beat them 3-1........Breaking news: naked man arrested in Renshaw Street laughing uncontrollably while abusing himself.
John Wright
172 Posted 28/04/2014 at 20:02:53
Neil Steele, Barry Thompson & John Hughes sanity restored at last thank you. . . . FTRS
Brian Denton
173 Posted 28/04/2014 at 20:24:34
Arse 1-0. Right, that's that deck cleared I think....
Steve Cotton
174 Posted 28/04/2014 at 20:39:20
in Ten years time will anyone remember if we came 5th or 6th? absolutely not. Will anyone remember if the RS won the league? absolutely everybody will because they will still be showing highlights in every media outlet this side of the Mason-Dixon.

Here is one final thought, for every ridiculously bad decision that the RS have had over us, (Clive Thomas, Don Hutchinson, Alan Hansen on the line, Carra fouling Lescott etc) well us throwing this game would put all the above into the shade and they would hate us for eternity.

Lets throw it big style... Call me old fashioned

Andrew Bulmer
175 Posted 28/04/2014 at 20:38:58
Postulate, predict, pontificate all you like meanwhile the powers that be carry on regardless...Mark Clattenburg will ref Crystal Palace V Liverpool..There should be a storm of protest against such shameless and obvious bias ..there wont be. Jose the only one with the brains and the balls it seems.
Yair Kaye
176 Posted 28/04/2014 at 21:07:21
Well, Arsenal are already 2 up, so no dilemma at all.

Mourinho, God bless him, did a great job yesterday, and we should complete the mission on Saturday.

Paul Hewitt
177 Posted 28/04/2014 at 21:18:11
As I see on Saturday is a win-win situation. Win or draw, we make Europe. Lose and Man City win the league. We will beat Hull as they will rest players for the Cup Final.
Paul Andrews
178 Posted 28/04/2014 at 21:21:29
Anyone else heard that The Park End is going to do The Poznan if City score?

That would annoy the RS no end

Pat Kennedy
179 Posted 28/04/2014 at 21:23:39
Find this whole section quite saddening really.
We are Evertonians and I cannot stomach the idea of wanting MY team to lose EVER.

I have many friends and relatives who are from the dark side and they are telling me that they expect us to throw the game. I say bollocks to them, we should go out and look to win. If we lose to City after giving our all then so be it. Under no circumstances should we want our team to lose. City not winning at our place will not hand our neighbours the title. It's over 38 games and if they ( god forbid) win the title then we'll just have to suck it up.

I've been watching the blues since 1962. I've had the good fortune to see Alex Young, Roy Vernon, Ball, Harvey and Kendall in their pomp. We are born not manufactured and should have more class and style then to play the small time bitters we are often called.

Me and my son and grandson ( 3 generations of blues) all season ticket holders will be there on Saturday night cheering on the boys and subsequently on Monday night praying for a Crystal Palace victory. I would enjoy that!

I can never understand how people who profess to be Evertonians think that it's somehow a sign of their 'passion' to display their hatred of Liverpool FC.

Treat them as I do, they are rivals of us in the same City nothing more nothing less. You only get 3 points for beating them just like anyone else. Too many people on this site are obsessed with them. I will enjoy taking the piss if they don't make it, but get real they have gone from finishing behind us in the last 2 seasons to guaranteed CL football next season, so they have a lot to celebrate!

I'm delighted however to see our progress this year, the football has been a joy to watch under a progressive young manager. Thank god Moyes went to MU and enabled us to escape the suffocating tactics and his constant lowering of expectations. Europa League please next season will do for me. CL would have been wonderful but you can't always have what you want

Nicholas Page
180 Posted 28/04/2014 at 21:39:23
So that's that then. Come on City
Spragg Johnson
181 Posted 28/04/2014 at 21:54:41
No dilemma at all. We rest Baines and Lukaku, Barry is unavailable, Jags needs more time ... And we lose (narrowly).
We then get our best side out against Hull (who have other priorities).
It must happen this way for two reasons.
1. Arsenal will not slip up against West Brom or Norwich anyhow.
2. I could not stomach seeing the slippery crease head on an open top bus.
Nicholas Page
182 Posted 28/04/2014 at 22:00:27
Manchester City and Paris St-Germain have both been found to have breached Uefa's financial fair play (FFP) rules. They have received settlement offers from Uefa's club financial control board (CFBCB), who meet on Thursday. Uefa has made its first FFP ruling based on club accounts from the past two seasons - 2011-12 and 2012-13.

And Barca get off on the ban imposed.

I feel like packing football in cos the whole fucking thing is a stitch up. And we'd have probably got stitched.

Fuck the c**ts.

Bill Gall
183 Posted 28/04/2014 at 22:01:45
Sorry - never thought I would read so many so called Everton supporters wanting them to loose you should be ashamed of yourselves.
Patrick Murphy
184 Posted 28/04/2014 at 22:08:17
Nicholas Uefa and whoever else is involved said last week that the full fair play rules won't be enforced this season and in my opinion they are probably never going to be enforced - Uefa are scared to death that the really rich clubs will boycott their tournaments and form a breakaway European Super League which as far as I'm concerned would be the best thing to happen as the rest of us lowly clubs could get back to enjoying the game.
Nicholas Page
185 Posted 28/04/2014 at 22:12:13
Patrick agree. And the reason we're not there is cos of the RS and their sickening behaviour in 1985.

Not bitter though. Lol

Patrick Murphy
186 Posted 28/04/2014 at 22:13:23
Mind you I wonder if City do clinch the title would LFC push for a points deduction? I wouldn't put it past them.
James Marshall
187 Posted 28/04/2014 at 22:17:18
Bill - ashamed? It's only one game and won't mean much to us so why the big deal? I am unashamed in my dislike of the RS and would happily (very very happily) see us lose one single match if it helps another team with the title.

I am not ashamed one little bit. We'll still make the Europa League anyway, so what's the problem?

Bollocks to them. I haven't laughed so hard at someone falling over as when Captain Fantastic fell on his face and Chelsea scored yesterday!

Peter Warren
188 Posted 28/04/2014 at 22:16:20
Want us to win but would hate them winning the title. They all said to me In work today that they will be cheering us on so they will win the title. No concern about beating Palace - arrogant fuckers.

Mourinho is such a bad loser but bloody hell he hates the red shite more than us & fergie and doesn't half wind them up. Got to like him for that alone

Chris Leyland
189 Posted 28/04/2014 at 22:19:29
Patrick, apparently the FA have announced that any team who have both the PFA player of the year and also 3 players from the PFA team of the year will be awarded 4 points for a win on the last game of the season.
Raymond Fox
190 Posted 28/04/2014 at 22:03:54
Don't know what your getting hot and bothered about, we can try 100% to win, but I cant see us getting anything out of the City game!

Stranger things have happened admittedly, but I doubt it.

I nailed my colours to the mast early in another thread.
As far as I'm concerned I don't care much what happens in the remaining games, it was CL or nothing for me.

I certainly don't want the colour red waved under my nose continually, if that rabble win the Prem.

Colin Gee
191 Posted 28/04/2014 at 22:12:29
I travel around the North West for my job and I can count friends and colleagues who are supporters of probably every club in the North West, you can hold a decent conversation with all of them about football, except the 'supporters' of one club, i'll give you a clue about which one you can't have a decent conversation with, they play at our old ground.
All you get from them is bitter this, bitter that.... Half of them couldn't find their way to Anfield! Fans of other clubs are starting to see what we have seen them for what we have known for years, cheating Red Shite.

How many times have they f***** us up over the years, Clive Thomas, Emyln Hughes, Alan Handball Hansen, European Ban, Relegation Parties, The Clattenberg Derby, Atkinson sending off Rodwell and so on. Saturday isn't about wanting Everton to lose it's about time we paid the RS back, if we lose to City and City go on to win the Title, i'll have a smile as wide as the Mersey all summer. knowing that for once we f****** them up.

Nicholas Page
192 Posted 28/04/2014 at 22:35:39
The shite will still probably pox it like every-fucking- thing-else they do. On penalties. Somehow
Patrick Murphy
193 Posted 28/04/2014 at 22:46:31
I totally agree Nicholas they will somehow grab it in the last minute and we'll all be sick as the proverbial parrots - I had resigned myself to the outcome prior to yesterday and now I'm starting to get that horrible feeling in the pit of my stomach.
Spragg Johnson
194 Posted 28/04/2014 at 22:46:05
Colin Gee ... I salute you. Nail. Head.
Bill Gall
195 Posted 28/04/2014 at 22:47:01
By wanting us to throw a game is simply falling to their level and I consider Everton supporters superior to them.
Nicholas Page
196 Posted 28/04/2014 at 22:49:08
Patrick, its just like 2005 but in much slower motion.
Ste Traverse
197 Posted 28/04/2014 at 22:48:21
The one thing that really worries me for Saturday is not City, it's not even them over there, it's our own fans.

I can see mass arguments/kick offs between the blues who want us to win and those who will be happy to see us lose. The stewards could well have their work cut out.

Whatever happens, we will not come out of this well.

James Marshall
198 Posted 28/04/2014 at 22:55:37
Bill, I never said I wanted us to throw the game. I just said I'd prefer if we didn't win it if it means they don't win the title. There's a subtle difference.
Barry Thompson
200 Posted 28/04/2014 at 22:41:30
All that shite from them really hoping we get 4th as "it will be great for the city" was utter bollocks imo. They knew we would have to beat City along the way to achieve it which as a result would give their own ambition of winning the premier league title a massive boost. Once achieved their true colours would resurface with "you haven't qualified for anything yet and don't forget how you managed to fuck that one up 9 years ago"
Whats that you say, my hatred of them making me paranoid - fair enough
Mike Hughes
201 Posted 28/04/2014 at 22:39:15
For those expressing disbelief in some Blues wanting / not minding an Everton loss against City - wake up and smell the coffee.

In the bigger scheme of things, the real loss to us in a two team city that panders and fawns to one side only is for that said side to go on to further glories.

They deserve it? "Drawing" penalties by diving, being allocated sympathetic refs as well as their usual odious antics. I won't even go into the past history that others have rightly delved into.

I don't want these rs scumbags winning anything because it affects us adversely on so many levels - including commercially.

I can't believe some Evertonians just don't get this!

I'm not saying throw the game as that would be unethical and unprofessional.

But all teams lose a few games in a season and if I had to choose one it would be the City game. If it happens it'll be the only occasion in my life time to date that I won't be upset at an Everton defeat.

The CL has well and truly gone so there are no upsides for us, just the potential for a massive, yawning, media-frenzied, gobshite-laden red hell.

Colin Glassar
202 Posted 28/04/2014 at 23:03:19
I wouldn’t be surprised if Man City win the title, on GD, Uefa and the prem will work something out (FFP?) to punish them and give the title to the RS.
Paul Smith
203 Posted 28/04/2014 at 22:52:50
I wish it was the last game of the season and we had 5th in the bag already. City to play and an Everton win, to hand the Shite the league! Ooh how sweet it would be to lose in the last minute. Bitter and resentful, who me ? Too fu@kin' right.
Charles Brewer
204 Posted 28/04/2014 at 23:07:00
My preference:

We lose 7-6 in the most magnificent display of footballing skills since Joahnn Cruyff.

And the Red Shite are indicted in a racketeering case in somewhere the average IQ is about 75, such as Arkansas. But the penalty is around USD.400,000,000.

And Palace win.

Ray Robinson
205 Posted 28/04/2014 at 23:06:42
For all those that want us to get beat on Saturday (and I do understand why), what the hell are you all going to do if City score? Cheer? I don't want the RS to win 'owt either but I'd rather Palace saw to that than us. Obviously we can't rely on that happening, so it's our result which is probably going to make the difference. I'm just confused what the reaction in the stands is going to be when City score. The more I think about it, the more confused I get. Even though I'm a season ticket holder, I think I might just stay at home and cower behind the settee and pretend it's not happening! Have supported Everton for 53 years and have never experienced anything like this.
Steavey Buckley
206 Posted 28/04/2014 at 23:10:48
BREAKING NEWS: Man City could be excluded from European competitions next season due to financial irregularities: http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/27198306
Harold Matthews
207 Posted 28/04/2014 at 22:59:14
Colin Gee. I was going for a win but not now. Not after reading your piercing post and being reminded of past wounds. I demand Gueye and Vellios up front.
Ray Robinson
208 Posted 28/04/2014 at 23:14:53
Steavey, that makes no difference as far as their winning the league is concerned though! Might mean 5th qualifies for CL though? My brain is hurting!
Mike Hughes
209 Posted 28/04/2014 at 23:16:00
Ray - I completely agree with you. I would not cheer City scoring but I'm staying away on Saturday. I hope this all works out well and the rs DON'T win the league (or a raffle, tombola or lucky dip for that matter).
Colin Glassar
210 Posted 28/04/2014 at 23:15:26
What did I sa,y Stevey B? There will be all sorts of phone calls, brown envelopes, threats etc... between Boston, Paris, London, Anfield in the next couple of days. Watch this space.
Charles Brewer
211 Posted 28/04/2014 at 23:14:39
Ray. This is unprecidented; we win- a spectacularly corrupt and foul RS win, we lose - Gerrard, Suarez, Skrtel, and their foul, scummy manager win: we lose and in Kruschev's terms they are 'consigned to the dustbin of history' forgotten, not even despised.

This is what they deserve; the oblivion of failure, lacking even the secondary goal of honour.

Mike Hughes
212 Posted 28/04/2014 at 23:19:43
Colin #188 -

Don't forget the Don Hutchison goal, Jimmy "Shithouse" Case and Souness tackles etc etc. (Not to mention quite a few personal incidents over the years that require some "karma").

I just hope the fans play it cool and are not too explicit in expressing hatred of the rs. That will backfire on us. I can just hear Alan Green highlighting our "bad attitude" live on air......

Ray Robinson
213 Posted 28/04/2014 at 23:23:01
Am seriously considering giving this match a miss!
Patrick Murphy
214 Posted 28/04/2014 at 23:21:25
The report last week said there wouldn't be any removal of clubs from competitions so I'm now completely confused.

While the settlements each club have been offered remain unknown, Uefa could reveal the outcomes as early as Friday.
Uefa president Michel Platini recently said he did not think any of the clubs who breached rules, which limit losses to 37M (45M) over the last two years, would be liable to the most powerful sanction of being excluded from European competition next season.
Sides not playing in Europe this season will not have to pass the FFP rules until next autumn.

So the Merseyside clubs didn't come under scrutiny this season due to the absence of European football interesting.

Who was it who mentioned 2005 all over again but this time in slow-motion?

The whole game reeks of corruption and deals made in off-shore locations, why aren't these things sorted in the close season and not during the fag-end of the campaign. Could be a busy summer for the lawyers methinks.

Mike Hughes
215 Posted 28/04/2014 at 23:24:52
Steavey #203

What about us?
Did we pass the financial fair play rules?
(I won't be able to sleep now)

Eugene Ruane
216 Posted 28/04/2014 at 22:57:49
Rather than concerning yourselves with what you hope we do or don't do against City, you could always take out 'insurance'.

Tomorrow go to Hills and put 500 nicker on - HOCCCCKKK-SPIT! - 'them' to win the title.

5/4 returns 1125.

So if they lose the title, you'll win happiness - a wonderful happiness that'll give you a glow for months (you'll look like that Ready Brek feller)

And if they win the title, well...you'll win enough to pay for a season ticket for 2014/15.

Points to feet - 'daahn there f' daaarncin Rodders'.

Ste Traverse
217 Posted 28/04/2014 at 23:32:43
If City got lick out of Europe, would that mean 5th would get us into the Champions League?

Interesting thought...

But even if that was the case, we'd still have whoppers amongst us willing us to lose.

Ste Traverse
218 Posted 28/04/2014 at 23:32:43
If City got kicked out of Europe, would that mean 5th would get us into the Champions League?

Interesting thought...

But even if that was the case, we'd still have whoppers amongst us willing us to lose.

Steavey Buckley
220 Posted 28/04/2014 at 23:30:10
"Uefa president Michel Platini recently said he did not think any of the clubs who breached rules, which limit losses to 37M (45M) over the last two years, would be liable to the most powerful sanction of being excluded from European competition next season." Source: BBC football.

Platini does not rule out the exclusion of European football, but just did not think it will happen the decision could be taken as early as Friday by a Uefa committee.

A large fine is no punishment to Man City if the fine is paid by the extraordinary wealthy gulf state owners.

Ian Hollingworth
221 Posted 28/04/2014 at 23:01:48
Clattenburg ref for rs versus palace FFS you could not make this shit up
Patrick Murphy
222 Posted 28/04/2014 at 23:43:12
So let's look at the possible scenario in full. For some unknown reason Uefa decide to give out the punishment on Friday and let's say for arguments sake that they ban City from European competitions. That would mean that the fifth placed side in the PL would qualify for CL. As a win for Everton would all but guarantee Everton fifth position, what more incentive could the players require to beat City. Obviously this would almost certainly result in the Dark Side winning the title. However, after much arguing and appeals City win their case to be reinstated into Europe and Everton have to make-do with Europa League but the winners will be Liverpool FC [Again]. Machiavellian it might be, but grains of truth?
Colin Gee
223 Posted 28/04/2014 at 23:51:59
Mike #209 I had forgotten about them!

To those who say what will we do when City score, it will probably be the same as any other game, we'll all blame Osman or Hibbert!

Phil Bellis
224 Posted 28/04/2014 at 23:43:33
All I know for certain is that, if our losing to City stops the RS winning the Prem, the nurse on whom McDermott pissed will be made up.

And Eugene, nice one already took that bet after they beat City, so, if the worst happens, at least I can bugger off abroad for the Summer

Steavey Buckley
225 Posted 29/04/2014 at 00:08:08
Glasgow Rangers were demoted 3 divisions because of financial irregularities. Some can say by Man City breaking the Uefa fair play rules they have won games unfairly. It will be interesting to see how this story develops with others questioning what sanctions Man City should suffer.
Ciaran Duff
226 Posted 28/04/2014 at 23:31:45
Ok, here's an idea:-

In the first minute we gift them an OG (a diving header by Alcaraz past the hapless Howard), then we start playing a bit and sorta threaten their goal (Lukaku to sky a good chance over the bar) and just as we are looking good we give away another OG (I know, I know, it sounds a bit suss). To make sure we lose, we pay the ref beforehand to not give us any clear cut penalty decisions and obviously the linesman will snuff out any dangerous through balls

Oh bugger, we already did that at Soton!

Seriously though, could you imagine the reaction of RS fans (and media) if the "Soton scenario" happened against City instead? Conspiracies theorists would be going nuts!

Eugene Ruane
227 Posted 29/04/2014 at 00:10:20
Phil - it crossed my mind to stick the same on them about a month back when they were 5/1 but..I didn't.

Since then of course the odds have dropped like Suarez in the box.

So using pure cold hard logic and rational thinking (and as the odds got a little better after Stevie Me's comedy pratfall) I am now convinced that the only thing that can stop 'them' winning the title is me throwing a few hundred nicker on them.

Works with all the horses I pick.

Phil Bellis
228 Posted 29/04/2014 at 00:34:57
Eugene, I hope we both lose our bets

The old reverse-a-rooney works for me also
My last winnings on the National was as a nipper, 1s/8d on Oxo (only name I could read)

Eric Myles
229 Posted 29/04/2014 at 01:40:33
"Do you really want, after everything that has happened in the past, for LFC fans to thank us, thank our team for helping them win the title?"

They wouldn't thank us though, in their arrogance they think they deserved it even though they've cheated their way to a lot of results.

The way I look at it is this: would they want their team to win if it would mean we would win the title?

Mike Price
230 Posted 29/04/2014 at 01:47:22
Hope City win by 4 clear goals, this is the most important game of the season. Gerrard costing them their already celebrated title would give me eternal joy. I truly despise everything about that vile club and hope we give them something to be 'outraged' at....ashamed of nothing, outraged at everything.
Anto Byrne
231 Posted 29/04/2014 at 03:45:11
A draw will ensure we finish above Man Utd and get Europa League football. Palace can hold the Shite to a draw and Man City can have the title. We only have to do enough to suit ourselves. We can play a team of up-and-coming prospects for Hull with Hibbert as Captain and announcing his retirement on scoring the winner.
Paul Andrews
232 Posted 29/04/2014 at 05:14:06
There is currently a group of Everton fans encouraging fellow fans to do the Man City celebration if City score against us.

Paul Andrews
233 Posted 29/04/2014 at 06:26:57
Blue moon, you saw me standing alone.......
Derek Thomas
234 Posted 29/04/2014 at 06:22:36
First off I totally dismiss trying not to win, we're Everton ffs we ALWAYS try to win...or else why turn up
And to deliberately lose is actually illegal in both footballing and a legal sense or if it isn't it fuckin should be.

Yes if we gave it our best shot and came up short, especially if we did it in our own inimitable 2 OG's fashion or some other typically Everton snatch defeat from the jaws of victory manner. it might be some scant compensation, but only minor

The trouble is that some have been saying this for months now before we had realistically blew our chance.

What if we were neck and neck with the Arse same points, same GD just how many would STILL be saying it.

Nah if you want Everton to lose well you have to live with your own decisions.

Don't you DARE watch it on tv

Don't you DARE get up at zero dark thirty to watch

In fact if you are a regular match goer give your ticket to somebody who DOES want them to win and will shout to that effect.

Me? no. I have a ticket and yes I am getting a bit personal... coz I do take it serious I always did and I always will and will be disappointed if they lose having spent a large wedge to come halfway round the world on a plane for nearly 2 days to watch them win.

rs fuck em I thought we don't car what they say... or do

Darryl Ritchie
235 Posted 29/04/2014 at 06:25:54
The very first thing that was made clear to me when I discovered my Blue side was us and them; good vs evil; royal blue heroes and red pond scum. The Everton/RS derby is THE derby, all others are just posers. We hate them!!!

Not being a Liverpool resident, it wasn't until I read what some have posted on this thread, that I have come realize the depths of that hatred. All who post on TW are true blue Evertonians. That some are hoping the Toffees lose, so that LFC doesn't win, is totally alien to everything I, and hopefully the team, believe in.

If I lived in Liverpool, I might have a different slant on things; but I don't and I don't.

Jimmy Hill
236 Posted 29/04/2014 at 06:54:11
Never ever will I wish Everton to lose. I don't give two fucks what the crap across the park do. What if Arsenal slip up? Then how would we all feel???
Matt Traynor
237 Posted 29/04/2014 at 07:04:14
This is all moot. The players are professionals and will do their best, win lose or draw. It really doesn't matter what we think. All that I'm reading on here is that if we were to lose on the day, a few people won't be as bothered about it as they otherwise would be. That's it.

I can imagine a much bigger group that will. No matter how we play on the day, no matter how hard we try, if we fail to win, then they will claim we did it deliberately, and enter full-on victim/conspiracy mode. If we only draw, they'll be delighted as, assuming they win their last two games, we've also knobbled ourselves for fourth and handed them the title.

Steve Cotton
238 Posted 29/04/2014 at 07:55:25
Osman own goal last 3 minutes to give City a 2-1- win.

Osman player of the year and guaranteed 100,000 at his testimonial!

Hero status for ever.

Don’t forget that LFC ’ALREADY’ have that bus parked up with League Champions 2014 painted and ready to go!

They can show the Ozzie own goal on the starting credits for MOTD all next season!!!

David Stewart
239 Posted 29/04/2014 at 07:37:26
So many different views on this topic and whilst I can understand most peoples views, I must say it saddens me to think that some people actually want Everton to get beat. Now if we go out and give it our best and fail then maybe a wry smile is in order but to want to get beat, I'm afraid I just can't get my head around that.

How's the song go? "We don't care what the red shite say", well reading some of the replies here I'd say some of us are obsessed with what they say ' fuck em I say, we're Everton and no matter what they do they'll never have me giving a toss about them... and I spent the 70's and 80's watching them beat everyone.

Also, fellow Blues, whilst still a long shot 4th is still possible; if we can beat City and pray that Arsenal get beat or only draw then there still is hope. So as we play before Arsenal this weekend I hope all our match going Blues get behind the team and help them along to 3 points. This is the dawn of a new era for Everton, this is Bobby time, 3pts and onwards.

Paul McCready
240 Posted 29/04/2014 at 08:00:49
I've given my ticket to my Uncle, sorry but in the grand scheme of things I want us to lose, we will still finish in Europe so losing on Saturday will be forgotten about by 8pm, we'll never however hear the end of it if the RS win the league.
Ciaran Duff
241 Posted 29/04/2014 at 08:30:47
Ok, let's apply some Everton logic here folks.
Judging from above responses, it seems that the majority of the (TW) supporters want us to lose to spite the RS. Now being Everton, we are (in)famous for letting our fans down, especially towards the end of the season.
So, therefore, I am predicting that we'll tonk City.
BTW, I wonder how the crowd will react to all of this? Will they be cheering our goals or City goals?
Ian Glassey
242 Posted 29/04/2014 at 09:00:32
I have watched Everton for 56yrs and want them to win every game, I don't give a fuck about the shite never have never will.
Malcolm Joyner
243 Posted 29/04/2014 at 09:02:50
Wishing Everton to lose, betting on the Reds to win the Prem ? What a perverted way to support the boys in blue.

From now on, I'll look at my fellow 'supporters' in a new light !

Craig Walker
244 Posted 29/04/2014 at 09:15:53
Worst case scenario. City narrowly beat us via a controversial decision. They then go and drop points in their two home bankers and the RS win the league therefore we lose another game at home and it takes the shine off our season a bit but we still have to witness the open top bus.

Great fallback option Eugene #224 but I might go one further and book myself and the family a flight somewhere remote.

Sam Hoare
245 Posted 29/04/2014 at 09:25:19
Craig, the worst case is that we lose the next two games and get overtaken by Utd and Spurs. We miss out of Europe and the history books show this season for Everton as being 7th in the Prem with no trophies.
Andrew Bulmer
246 Posted 29/04/2014 at 09:13:54
Liverpool have lost 49m 40m and 49m in the last three years..they have no grounds to object to city in europe the same rules would exclude them. the cynical might read the obvious into that re the general non exclusion stance of uefa.

Liverpool and their backers and the tv companies etc desperately needed Champions League qualification. Coincidence that every major challenging game in the second half of the season has been reffed by Atkinson or Clattenburg and rivals' games by those two and Dean. Record number of penalties for. 27 mins at a time without conceding free kicks etc etc etc... It's all a matter of record.

The fact that not one journalist pundit commentator has noticed this or seen fit to comment hell even question and investigate just to establish/ensure the integrity of the sport is hugely depressing and worrying. What does a dodgy regime look like ? What kind of things would it do ? If it walks like a duck ?

I clearly don't know if there is a "conspiracy" how could I ? But the behaviour of the FA, refs and LFC's favourable decisions are indisputable and a matter of record... surely such probability busting circumstances raise even the most credulous people's suspicions.

Ross Edwards
247 Posted 29/04/2014 at 09:31:07
People seem to forget that Chelsea can stil win the league. All it takes is for the RS to lose against Palace and Chelsea to beat Norwich at home and they'll go top.

We don't need to "throw" the match, because with our injuries mouting up we won't win the game anyway in reality. We have Distin, Jags, Mirallas, Barry and possibly Baines all missing for the game, whilst City have Aguero and Toure back at exactly the right time.

My head is saying that I would absolutely hate it and go into hiding if the RS won the league, mainly beause it would be unbearable to endure, therefore wanting City to win.

But my heart says that as a Blue, you never want your team to lose a match, and, I know I'm deluded, but 4th is not completely over in my mind. If we win the last 2 games, Arsenal could take their foot off the gas for the Cup Final, become complacent and draw with WBA and lose to Norwich. It won't happen of course, but the hope always remains.

I will want us to win against City, but the reality is, we probably won't, especially with a potential defence containing Alcaraz, Stones and Garbutt.

Kieran Fitzgerald
248 Posted 29/04/2014 at 09:36:58
With how we have been playing in recent games, I can see us losing at Hull. Long and Jelavic are staring to click at Hull. They could score a few between them between now and the end of the season.

What happens if we do lose both our games and end up in seventh? Will all the people clamouring for a City win sit back and go hurray, great, brilliant, the RS didn't win the title? Or will you all sit around bitching about how we fucked up a great season, the seventh is the same old story for us and that Martinez is no better than Moyes?

With this being ToffeeWeb, you'll all sit around bitching. Unbelievable, considering how we deserve a good ending to this season, you're all hoping for us to lose. We really are that small minded and bitter as fans.

Ross Edwards
249 Posted 29/04/2014 at 09:38:26
If City do get kicked out of the CL for breaking Financial Fair Play, would their place in the competition go to us?

If Platini has the balls to back what he's been saying and implementing, they should be kicked out, but it won't happen of course.

Malcolm Joyner
250 Posted 29/04/2014 at 09:48:49
Well, Keiran, at least Mr Walling will be in the money and his belief that Everton are a 'seventhish club' - regardless of who is manager - proved right !

How I hope we win both matches regardless of the impact on the RS !

Ross Edwards
251 Posted 29/04/2014 at 10:04:22
Consider this, no matter what we do, well get skitted by them.

If we win, well get, "The bitters won us the league...19 times, hahaha Thursday nights channel 5 etc

And if we lose, well still get, "fix, its a conspiracy, moan, moan, moan"

But then again, we have a lot to avenge. Thomas, Clattenburg, Atkinson, The European Ban, That Bucharest 1986 banner, you can go on. And it would be nice to see Stevies little face when they bottle it.

James Marshall
252 Posted 29/04/2014 at 10:09:27
We only need a point from the Hull game to make 6th place at worst, and to be honest I don't really give a shit if we finish 5th or 6th now because either will be above Utd and that's about all we left left at this stage of the season.

6th will likely get us into the Europa League anyway as I reckon Arsenal will pump Hull in the cup final.

If we lose to City I'll be happier than if we win and I'm not ashamed to say it. Anything that stops those cheating shites from winning anything is alright by me and I reckon the players will be cheered off the pitch if we do lose and they'll know exactly why.

Yes they have professional integrity to be concerned about, and I would bet everything that they'll still play to win. I'm hoping for a nice open game, lots of goals from both teams, and something like a 3-2 win for City with us playing brilliantly.

This season will live long in the memory with any luck, for 3 events - us losing to City to help them win the title (yes I'm bitter about numerous things over the last 40 years of my life), Gerrard's big speech after they beat City, and that very same speech coming back to bite him on the arse when he fell over against Chelsea (which happens to be my absolute highlight of the year so far outside of a few Everton games).

Peter Mills
253 Posted 29/04/2014 at 10:06:46
Any last hope I had of some kind of retribution against the rs disappeared at the end of the 1986 season. On the way home from the semi-final at Villa Park I convinced myself that this was to be our year, we would win the double, making them runners-up in the league and cup, all past injustices including the European ban would be extinguished. We know what happened.

Beware. If City win on Saturday we should not celebrate, simply because it will not mean the rs can't win the league. City will still have one more game, in which they can, and probably will, fail. If Goodison is rocking to a City win, it will come back to haunt us, be shown for years, as Satan plots an ever more twisted way to keep his part of a contract he entered in the 1960s.

Tony Pickering
254 Posted 29/04/2014 at 10:24:48
James @249, I tended to agree a while back - although the prize money is different by a good bit I think. But then I found (and lost) a site suggesting that the 6th place would need an extra qualifying round of Europa before the group stages? If so this may be tough in a World Cup year.

Can anyone confirm it? Or the opposite! Cheers

James Marshall
255 Posted 29/04/2014 at 10:24:18
Actually 6th place is already a Europa league place cos City won the League cup. Is that right?
James Marshall
256 Posted 29/04/2014 at 10:29:36
I believe that both 5th AND 6th place will enter the Europa league at the play-off stage. The FA cup and League cup winners both enter a bit later so 5th and 6th are the same in that respect.
Tony Pickering
257 Posted 29/04/2014 at 10:35:11
Thanks James. Had spent the last ten minutes looking for the other site I found. Came up with this - and I think it shows my original thought as being the right one - though open to correction as always here.


England Federation two it says, so I read it as:

Seems only the cup winners go into the group stage right off. 6th place plays two qualifying rounds, 5th place one. Unless the Cup winner is in the CL - which I think (hope!!) means that the 5th place team would take their place direct inn the group stage leaving cup runners up to play the two rounds and 6th place just the one.

Confused? Yep me too and also probably wrong!

Steve Guy
258 Posted 29/04/2014 at 10:41:22
I can't believe people want us to lose. The media are already into "I'm sure Everton will be professional and look to win" mode (Talksport Red Supporter Spooney), which I find intensely patronising. Io hate the tho
Steve Guy
259 Posted 29/04/2014 at 10:44:04
I can't believe people want us to lose. The media are already into "I'm sure Everton will be professional and look to win" mode (Talksport Red Supporter Spooney), which I find intensely patronising. I hate the thought of Liverpool winning a game of tiddlywinks never mind the League, but I also hate the thought that people would actually blame it on Everton for a less than professional performance if the RS don't "triumph". We can't get fourth now so let's make sure we go out guns blazing and make sure we finish 5th. We can't assume we will get points from either of our remaining games so we actually need to go into the Citeh game looking to win, regardless of what it means for the shower across the Park. It would be far worse to be accused of lack of professionalism AND not make Europa (which at the very least we deserve for this season's efforts) through a desire for some Phyrric victory over the RS.
Paul Niklas
260 Posted 29/04/2014 at 10:50:46
if we play the team we played against Southampton and the way we did then it wont matter we will get hammered by City.

Season ended at the Palace game due to complacency. Macarthy should have started, it is as simple as that.

Could not be more disapointed with what has happened, we threw it away and I can see no real excuse for it.

Paul Niklas
261 Posted 29/04/2014 at 10:59:40
The only Dilemma is why in the last 6 games of the season are the important games being played to suit television.

Their is a distinct advantage in knowing what you have to do, for example Liverpool will know exactly the position on Monday night, as did Arsenal last night, I really believe it needs to be looked at.

What harm would it do if the last 6 games top or bottom for that matter are not all played at 5.30 on a Saturday night.

They could even show all games live on SKY and BT under viewer choice and charge for it, it would be exciting in my opinion.

Gary Mortimer
262 Posted 29/04/2014 at 11:30:34
In my opinion, a Liverpool title win would seriously impact on any future investment into Everton. Why invest in little old over achieving Everton when you can invest in the "Champions of the Universe"? We will forever be seen as the little club who also happen to play in the same city as Liverpool FC.

Make young Blues' lives a nightmare for the next few years, let's face it they are not backwards in coming forwards with their opinions just remember all their gloating on the footy phone-ins.

Does anybody really think that they would care that they needed our help to do it? Will it make me feel better knowing that they needed our help? No chance it would be forgotten 2 nanoseconds after the final whistle of the final game of the season. The fact that they have not won the Prem is one of the few things that contradicts their "We are the best team ever" label that they give themselves.

Even if they did not follow it up with more success the media will never let the world forget how brilliant they are. They still bang on about Istanbul. The coverage for them over the last few weeks has been sickening, every home match is another opportunity for everyone to marvel at the Kop in full You'll Never Walk Alone voice, even highlights programmes devote some time to it. The media don't need any encouragement to ignore our achievements and if that lot win the League, we'll be consigned to the footnotes of the 2013-14 season.

This is not bitter this is just not wanting your local rivals to win the League and reap all the benefits which will take them further out of reach. Just like Man City fans want anyone but Man Utd, Spurs fans anyone but Arsenal it is how it is for local fans.

Seeing as the only thing riding on the Man City match is that we could cement a Europa League place, this makes it easier to look at the bigger picture. A Liverpool title win would be disastrous for Everton.

I expect us to be able to get a good enough result at Hull City to secure at least 6th, and if anyone had asked me at the start of the season that all we had to do was draw the last match to secure it, I am sure I would have taken it.

Stuart Critchley
263 Posted 29/04/2014 at 11:44:17
Totally agree with Gary (259)

Martinez should play the reserves on Saturday, because that's what Mourinho did last Sunday against the Red Shite.

Strange how nobody seems to mention that.

Patrick Murphy
264 Posted 29/04/2014 at 11:44:22
It amazes me how people can get so wound up with the thought that the other lot may or may not win the League. For 15 years King Billy has sat on the throne and contributed very little to Everton's cause, yet no flak from the majority of Blues it's little wonder when the height of our ambitions are to be happy if our neighours don't manage to win the title.

What has happened to us, how have we sunk so low? If they win it they win it nothing we can do about it, even if we lose to City. I was wondering why there were so many references to the other lot this season and the last few days have answered that question.

Today is the 60th anniversary of our arrival back in the top-flight and I wonder what they would have thought of this modern trend in supporting Everton. I despise everything that LFC stand for; I too have endured the brick-bats and suffered the losses as they won trophy after trophy, but it didn't make me feel that Everton FC were second-class and it never will.

Everton never will be a global brand and we will never have the amount of support that our neighbours have that ship sailed a long long time ago and it ain't coming back; you can blame the Everton board, you can blame the media... blame who you like... but whether or not they win the title has nothing to do with Everton's profile as it has got more to do with the last half-a-century and it will take us twice as long to catch-up by which time most of us won't be around.

Watch Everton, encourage the team, cheer the team but stop obsessing with what the other lot achieve or don't achieve it's unhealthy and it does more harm than good to Everton FC.

Kieran Fitzgerald
265 Posted 29/04/2014 at 12:16:56
Why don't we just go all the way here. Sack Martinez and give Moyes the job back. Why not. Sixth and being happy to lose seems to be okay with some ToffeeWebbers. We obviously don't want or need the positivity and the progress and forward thinking that our new manager has installed this season. Just bring back Moyes and go back to the way we were.

We don't want to aim for the best finish left to us this season in fifth, or have ambition, or actually progress beyond the glass ceiling that our finances, our Board, the national media and everyone else dictates should stay in place for the 'little people' like us. Let's be more interested in seeing our rivals lose and go backwards than seeing our club win and finish higher up the table.

You know what, you deserve everything that gets thrown at us in terms of being tagged 'little people'. If you're going to be so small-minded and parochial as to want to lose just so that our rivals don't win, then don't ever come on here again and whinge about the Board or pitiful transfer funds or anything else that is keeping the club down. You're no different.

Colin Glassar
266 Posted 29/04/2014 at 12:31:46
I agree with a lot of what you say Patrick. This is a sick, perverted, nightmare IMO. We are damned if we do and damned if we don’t.

I don’t think I will watch any football over the weekend. I might do a ’Likely Lads’ and wait until the final weekend of the season. Who knows, we could still be in with a shout for fourth or, fighting for seventh?

As for being forever in their shadow, well the Man City supporters thought that about their cocky neighbours and look at hem now. Maybe there’s a blue-hearted sheikh out there.

Eugene Ruane
267 Posted 29/04/2014 at 12:48:23
Colin - "I might do a 'Likely Lads' and wait until the final weekend of the season"

What if you catch a glimpse of a newspaper that says "Everton F..."?

Eugene Ruane
268 Posted 29/04/2014 at 12:25:51
Patrick Murphy - "For 15 years, King Billy has sat on the throne and contributed very little to Everton's cause, yet no flak from the majority of Blues' it's little wonder when the height of our ambitions are to be happy if our neighours don''t manage to win the title."

Spot on.

People tying themselves in knots and bouncing off the walls with worry over what goes on over there, while allowing fat-head to continue along his merry, useless, spoofing smirking way... Talk about near-sighted.

Do we get the board (finance, trophies) 'we' deserve? The majority of Evertonians imo definitely do.

Colin Glassar
269 Posted 29/04/2014 at 13:00:43
Eugene, I might move down to London for a few days. There’s more talk of cricket, rugby union and girls hockey there then there is about footy.
Carl Sanderson
270 Posted 29/04/2014 at 12:58:32
"For 15 years King Billy has sat on the throne and contributed very little to Everton's cause, yet no flak from the majority of Blues... "

Absolutely right. I've given up even attempting to discuss it at the match; no-one wants to know. "Be careful what you wish for..." is the standard, bone-lazy response. We have the club that many of us deserve.

Craig Walker
271 Posted 29/04/2014 at 12:59:29
Kenwright has had an easier time of it because of the inability of the shower across the park to win the league. Moyes, for all his faults managed to get us above them the past few seasons and that has kept the pressure off his tenure as custodian of our club.

This thread and other recent RS based discussions have shown that there is a significant section of our fanbase who would not take too kindly to us being at best a top 7 team whilst them lot are crowned English champions. I think if the RS were consistently winning the league again whilst we stagnated due to underinvestment then a lot of our fans would become a lot more vociferous.

Say what you want about the RS and as much as I despise them, I have to give them credit for how they hounded out Hicks and Gillette when they were facing financial ruin and sought change at the top. We seemed to be getting some momentum with the Blue Union a few years back but an upturn in results quietened a lot of dissenting voices.

I'm sure if LFC were to replace MUFC as this country's most successful team, then more pressure would be put on Kenwright and the board.

Steve Woods
272 Posted 29/04/2014 at 12:39:50
Our last home game of the season with so much hanging on the game for our dreadful neighbours. I suppose there will be a lap of honour as usual what with it being our last match at home...
Andrew Ellams
273 Posted 29/04/2014 at 13:24:25
I really don't want them to win the league, but so many people here seem to care more about them than anything else.

I remember the dark days when they ruled over everything but why the hell should that have any bearing on how Kenwright does or doesn't rule our club? Of course I want to beat them and finish above them, but I want to beat and finish above everybody else too. NSNO

John Brennan
274 Posted 29/04/2014 at 13:30:52
We must never, ever, hope to lose a game against ANY opposition just to prevent the "mighty reds" from winning the title.

We shall fight them on the beaches, and in the hills. We shall fight them on the landing grounds and in Wetherspoons, we shall fight them on Twitter and on Facebook, we shall take selfies and post them on all RS supporting, cringing, whimpering, chattering, limp wristed caricatures websites, we shall hurl in their faces our glorious history, the sky will darken as our airborne battalions descend on Anfield, blue waves of seething passion, blue hordes singing, snarling, joking, drunken, revelling in our greatest achievement in stopping them from winning the title.

Away from us thou cream faced loons, this is EFC, this is Valhalla, this is life personified!!!

COYB Everton 1 Man City 0. (Hibbert 90+ 2)

Ste Traverse
275 Posted 29/04/2014 at 13:18:23
Patrick #261.

Spot on. One of the best posts I've seen on here.

Jim Potter
276 Posted 29/04/2014 at 10:56:03
Everyone who regularly ventures onto this site would normally want us to win 100% of the time. But this is not just "any" time. The RS will win the league if we beat Man City. For people not even to consider the "merits" of a potential loss, to me, is extraordinary.

Sitting here contemplating "them" winning the title has thrown everything I hold dear into a world of confusion. Whilst not "hoping we lose" let's just say for once in my life I will be slightly less concerned at the result. It is an understandable dilemma for all of us.

I think our Europa League place is looking pretty much assured. Although I think it is a poisoned chalice as it'll drain the team next season I still desperately want European football back on the agenda. (Why don't they make it a knockout tournament worth winning)?!

The thought of the RS on an open-top bus tour of the city makes me want to chunder. Then chunder again.

Anyone but them. But to want us to lose...? I can't quite 'want' that it is a close run thing mind you.

I really find the "You can't be an Evertonian" line held in some arguments to be distasteful. When you've endured a lifetime of RS crap then they have the right to turn a blind eye to one very important result. We all have different viewpoints and however 'wrong' you may find them you shouldn't question a fellow Blue's commitment to the cause. In this case, for many, that cause is to prevent Liverpool winning the title. Is that such a bad cause?

Ultimately for me, once the whistle goes I'll be 100%, as always, supporting a Blues win. But if it happened to go against us, I would not be shedding any tears for once.

And Simon their fans would't "thank us" for beating City they'll be too busy crowing and ramming their title down our collective throats.

If it does happen and 'Stevie G' is on all the front pages you'll be glad you're in Alaska mate!

(Got a spare room?)

Mike Gwyer
277 Posted 29/04/2014 at 13:14:41

Yeah, I want the RS to fuck up the league. Badly. The trophy parade will be televised live and last a week -there will be public holidays for everyone to enjoy it.

Talking of BK fucking up Everton has been going on forever and the days of supporters kicking up a fuss and letting the chairman know that he's a twat seems to have died. I hate the term "happy clappers", I seriously do but really what the fuck else can be done that has a momentum to it?

However, what really grips me is the way the media behold the RS as the messiah of football. It is beyond sickening. Now we pay for the BBC to operate, we pay their salaries and we have to listen or read to what they see as public news. The BBC footy people decided that "Joe Public" needs to know who is going to win the EPL Premier League: Liverpool, Man City or Chelsea. The web page is full of stats and possible outcomes, but for me everyone can see the match that matters is at GP next Saturday.

All fairly predictable really, but the final paragraph is the "Also-Rans", could be interesting I thought. Nope, Gollum's lot & Spurs get twenty words a piece on how shit they are. Everton not a fucking mention. Not a fucking word. There we are, sitting pretty in 5th challenging for 4th and spanking the likes of United and Arsenal.

Now that is why a I will fucking cheer the loudest when City put the ball in the net on Saturday hopefully the BBC will report it as such.

Martin Kulkarni
278 Posted 29/04/2014 at 13:10:16
Gary Mortimer @259

Spot on mate!

Some of the rest of you need to look at yourselves and those of a certain age think about the sixties onwards. This great club of ours has suffered continuously at the hands of those scum from Mordor, whether directly or indirectly over those decades.

Let's put it this way, and I do stand to be corrected. In my 45 years supporting Everton, I can only cite two examples where we have enjoyed an advantage over that shower. Two things that went our way where they suftered as a result. Namely, the penalty for a Hibbert handball they should have had in the 3-0 win for us at Goodison, and the wrongly given offside decision against the sewer rat in last seasons 2-2 draw at Goodison. That's it. That's out lot. Anyone come up with any more? I can't.

Now everybody continue with that thinking I suggested where the boot has been on the other foot. We could write a fucking book on it couldn't we?!!

No issue for me, I hope we lose on Saturday, and I will be there and it will be difficult and strange for me and I am not looking forward to it really but people it is THAT important just to help Man City on their way, because as we know, it isn't over after Saturday or Monday.

Don't forget we don't actually decide anything as fans, only players and officials can do that, and yes I do feel a penalty or two coming our way on Saturday just as the Dark Side will get theirs from Twatterburg on Monday. but as fans we hope just like any other game, just a bit alien this time.

Stuart Gray
279 Posted 29/04/2014 at 13:32:37
I want us to win our final 2 games. I want Arsenal to lose their final 2 games. Simple as that.

I don't want Liverpool to win the League, not because it's them but more because I won't be able to switch on the TV or Radio for the next 6 months without hearing about how great they are and Bloody Micky Quinn spouting garbage.

But I want us to win. I've put a bet on Liverpool winning the title. They win, I win. Softens the blow.

Stuart Gray
280 Posted 29/04/2014 at 13:45:57
Oh and don't think Palace will be easy for Liverpool either.
Phil Bellis
281 Posted 29/04/2014 at 13:43:41
Sticking quotes around "supporters" and swearing your undying wish for Everton to win EVERY game won't sway those who think differently for this one game.

I fully respect your stance; but, please give over the "not as good Blues as us" snidey implications against those of different opinion. That may be your belief, others differ; this holier than thou line doesn't wash.

Steve Woods
282 Posted 29/04/2014 at 13:53:33
Stuart 277 The FA have concerns about the Palace game for them too, so they have made Clattenberg the referee.
James Marshall
283 Posted 29/04/2014 at 13:58:19
Colin (#266)

Sorry to disappoint you but I've lived in London for years and I don't know anyone that talks about rugby union or girl's hockey. You're going to have to move to Surrey instead.

Maybe I should move to Liverpool and grow a moustache to go with my perm and shellsuit?

Wally Melwani
284 Posted 29/04/2014 at 14:09:10
Prior to last Saturday's game against Southampton, I was all excited about us pushing on to finish above the Gunners to 4th spot.However, seeing how we buckled against the Saints speaks volumes of how long and hard the season has been and what some injuries to a few key players can do to weaken the team. This and the fact that Arsenal won against the Barcodes yesterday clearly separates them and us by 4 points with a slightly superior goal difference with 2 games to go.

Seeing things as they are at the moment, I am torn between my head which says that we should still fight on for a Champion's League finish and my heart, which cannot and probably will never be able to face the possibility that our neighbours finish as Premier League champions.

That said, I must admit that, for the first time since following my beloved Toffees, I will be quite happy if we rolled-over and allowed Man City to beat us this Saturday and take the 3 points towards winning the title. I know that there could still be some twists and turns to the end of the season and that Liverpool could still emerge as champions, but at least we hold

the key for the next game.

Then, all we need against Hull on the final day of the season is a draw to see us finishing above Man Utd. A win would definitely be a bonus. But that possibility would mean that Spurs would overtake us for 5th spot which basically would mean missing out on the Europa League.

Robert Stroud
285 Posted 29/04/2014 at 14:10:59
Liverpool fans think we are disgusting for hoping Man City win on Saturday...

But is that any different than every Liverpool fan the world over desperately wanting Everton to win???


James Marshall
286 Posted 29/04/2014 at 14:12:02
Good, I'm glad they think we're disgusting. The feeling is mutual :-)
Clive Lewis
287 Posted 29/04/2014 at 14:21:51
I want Everton to play some youngsters then concentrate on Hull away. Let's just make sure we understand this. Due to the bigheadedness and arrogant behaviour that often comes from the deluded ones across the park, we have no choice but to look after our own youth development.
Dan Parker
288 Posted 29/04/2014 at 14:25:34
Tim Howard summed it up well on NBC over here in the States after the Chelsea win, which by the way was the funniest moment of the year, Mourinho yelling "Yeahhhh, yeahhhhh!!!" at Anfield was comedy gold. Tim said, "It's first and foremost about Everton, it's what we want to achieve and our goal is achieve maximum points. The moment you start focusing on other teams instead, you're in trouble."

I don't want Liverpool to win the league but I want Everton to get three points or a draw, because to me all that matters is Everton winning games...

I understand why people may want us to lose to hand Man City the title as spending most of my life in the North West, I understand how much grief one can get, they're entitled to that. 3 points for the Blues on Saturday, Europa League football guaranteed, an exciting season done and a thrilling prospect for the one ahead.

We've given ourselves a huge advantage this year, players would think twice about joining a Sky Four team, because we're nearly there with one of the best managers in the country (at this point in time).


Peter Howard
289 Posted 29/04/2014 at 14:20:06
I’ll take:

1) 0-0 at 90mins. Ref adds an extra 8 mins for Everton time wasting:
2) Hibbo scores Sandyesque og.
3) We riot but Uefa think riot is caused by Red Shite fans bunking in to cheer on the toffees,
4) Red Shite get banned from Europe for 10 years.
5) RedShite go into administration and end up relegated.

Bitter? You bet but with just cause. If you need to ask why, then you’re probably a social worker!

Bill Gall
290 Posted 29/04/2014 at 14:28:02
Personally I want Everton to win on Saturday but agree with the fans who say they will not be upset if they loose, as long as they make a game of it. I don't agree with fans who say they should play a weakened team and want them to loose, this is not the Everton Way. Regardless, we are not at the level of the supporters across the park; I hope we are above that type of behavior.

Talking about loosing 5th place is being disrespectful to Tottenham's and Man Utds opponents as if they are going to loose their games. It takes a season to win the league or to qualify for Europe not one game and I am only interested in what Everton do. If Everton loose the game on Saturday, it will because Man City will either play better or take their chances and it will not be a surprise with the team they have and what is at stake.

Personally, I think Everton players are too professional to think about anything but a win on Saturday so they end the season on a high note and prove to the manager they deserve to be at Everton next season.

Craig Walker
291 Posted 29/04/2014 at 15:08:19
The one thing we should all bear in mind is that what we wish for and what we get are two very different things.
Mike Green
292 Posted 29/04/2014 at 14:51:58
I for one will not be crying into my pint if we lose on Saturday.

However, we had our chance to stop Liverpool winning the title but let them off the hook at our place and played into their hands at theirs.

By the same token had we been able to play to the levels we did home and away against Arsenal the title would probably be ours, and CL a certainty. But we didn't.

City also had their own chance to put the title race to bed but froze and got cut to pieces at Anfield and, like Chelsea, have dropped points to opposition that on paper they should have trounced.

So, my view is if City want the title they should come to our place on Saturday and prove why they deserve it.

And if I'm honest, I hope they do.

Kevin Tully
293 Posted 29/04/2014 at 15:12:42
Obviously a very touchy subject, but as some have said, it doesn't matter in the slightest, does it? The players will give it their all, especially as it's the last home game of the season. The atmosphere will keep the players on their toes and there will be no easing up from professional players.

It's only a bit of craic between Blues & Redshite, lighten up FFS! (How does that Poznan thingy go again?)

Colin Glassar
294 Posted 29/04/2014 at 15:43:34
If I was Roberto I wouldn’t rush Jags, Distin or Bainsey back. Put them on the bench and start the game with Hibbo, Stonsey, Alcaraz and Garbutt. Bring them on after an hour, if need be, but keep them fresh for the Hull game.
Dave Rusk
295 Posted 29/04/2014 at 15:45:42
I presume most of you want us to lose to Man City to stop the RS winning the PL? I just can't get my head round what I want to be honest. I change my mind every day. Best scenario would be for us to beat Man City and the RS lose to C Palace on Monday night.

Why do the RS always have to piss on our parade? We win the league in 1963 they win it in 1964. We win the Cup in 1966, they win the league and on and on until we reach our highest ever PL points tally and... bitter, moi?

Just writing this has clarified things for me. I want us to stuff Man City, particularly as I live in Manchester.

Mike Hughes
296 Posted 29/04/2014 at 15:00:03
Patrick #261 - we tend to have similar views on here but, unlike one or two others, I didn't quite find your post "spot on".

You might not be interested but here's why:

1. "For 15 years King Billy has sat on the throne and contributed very little to Everton's cause, yet no flak from the majority of Blues"

I like many others voted "No" to BK's Tescodome so he doesn't get his own way despite the poll result. He appears to get flak quite frequently whether it's on here or at the previous AGMs. For those far-sighted individuals who want BK out, I'd be interested to know what did you do about it beyond posting on a website?

2. "Everton never will be a global brand and we will never have the amount of support that our neighbours have that ship sailed a long long time ago and it ain't coming back."

I happen to disagree regarding aspiring to a global brand but accept it won't happen any time soon mainly as it is 19 years since we've won anything. Global brands are created on the back of success, our biggest chance of that being completely crushed along with 39 forgotten Juventus fans an event arguably more relevant to this thread than BK. Alternatively, global brands are built on Chelsea / Man City style takeovers.

3. "Watch Everton, encourage the team, cheer the team but stop obsessing with what the other lot achieve or don't achieve it's unhealthy and it does more harm than good to Everton FC."

Great. Agree with the first part of that. I just wonder how many endorsing that view today in the context of this thread have perennially slagged-off Osman, Hibbert, Naismith, Neville etc over the years? How is that supporting the team? In my opinion, far more people are more obsessed with slagging-off our own players week-in and week-out than "obsessing" with the RS. Maybe that is a more appropriate time to make a rallying call for team support.

The current "obsession" with the other lot relates to one particular match of which this thread is the main subject. I wouldn't describe my long term loathing of them as an obsession any more than I'm obsessed with Gary Glitter, Jimmy Savile or Mick Philpot et al. They just appear from time on the news and that's when loathing surfaces.

Finally, this obsessing (as you call it) with the RS, albeit in relation to one match, is not harmful to EFC. The RS winning the Prem will do far more harm to our profile, hence the focus on this coming match. Why? Because it would widen the divide even further. Global brand? We're barely a brand in our own city at present.

My "spot on" award goes to Phil Bellis (#278).

Craig Walker
297 Posted 29/04/2014 at 16:14:16
My "spot on" award goes to Mike Hughes #292. I agree with every word of that.
Patrick Murphy
298 Posted 29/04/2014 at 16:20:49
Mike - I accept what you say and you have said it consistently since this 'situation' rose its ugly head. But there is and has been an unhealthy amount of traffic regarding our neighbours for most of the season; some of it is justified; some of it smacks of caring too much about what is happening across the park.
Dan Parker
299 Posted 29/04/2014 at 16:26:38
Everton not a brand outside of Liverpool? Errr, then why were New York subway cars between Times Square and Grand Central station emblazoned with Everton regalia in the summer? Why does Tim Howard commentate on NBC Sports?

Everton have had a huge following in the States with our pre-season tours and Everton have a massive following in Australia thanks to Tim Cahill. I agree we're probably not the strongest global brand, but we definitely have one.

Nicholas Page
301 Posted 29/04/2014 at 16:33:27
"I just wonder how many endorsing that view today in the context of this thread have perennially slagged-off Osman, Hibbert, Naismith, Neville etc over the years? How is that supporting the team? In my opinion, far more people are more obsessed with slagging-off our own players week-in and week-out."

Agree with that 100%, Mike. It's massively divisive and self-defeating. They don't set out to make mistakes, play badly, whatever but it sure as fuck makes it worse when AN Other gobshite in the crowd starts berating the less-gifted players for the whole game.

Raymond Fox
302 Posted 29/04/2014 at 16:03:47
Repeating myself from my previous I know, but do you really think we will win.
You can get 7/2 Everton and City are 4/5 to win, the bookies don't see us winning and neither can I.

I think Eugene's suggestion is prob. the way to approach the game, have a bet on us win so if we do win, we will have the consolation of winning a sum of money.
Downside, the Shite will prob. win the Prem!
Of course a draw pisses on the chips big time though, you lose the bet and scupper City, but as I say I think they will have too many guns for us.

James Marshall
303 Posted 29/04/2014 at 16:37:45
We have some exposure outside the UK, but to claim we're a Global brand is over-egging the pudding.

I was speaking to a friend from New York on Sunday and he asked what team I support and when I said Everton, he said, "oh you have a guy on our National team don't you?", meaning Howard so people do know of us but in this instance only because of Tim Howard being American.

Another example - I just spent a month in South East Asia and nobody out there supports Everton, nor do you see much in the way of advertising for us. It's all Utd, Liverpool, Chelsea, City and Arsenal. This is much the same the world over.

Anyway, getting back on track.....I hope Liverpool win nothing. Ever.

Rick Tarleton
304 Posted 29/04/2014 at 16:24:44
As a lad growing up in the fifties, we as a family went to the match on a Saturday, Liverpool and Everton on alternate Saturdays. I accepted Liverpool and was ok about their success, but four things altered my attitude to Liverpool.Above all Heysel and what it cost English football and Everton in particular. But three lesser events have annoyed me. Shankley's silly quip about Liverpool and Liverpool reserves being the two teams on Merseyside. Emlyn Hughes 's Liverpool are magic , Everton are tragic ditty and Benitez's bitter aside that we were a little club.90% of my family are reds and I always say that Everton's promotion and Liverpool's relegation in 53/4 (I was seven) made me a blue, but Liverpool have been very condescending about Everton over the years, they have always been the media darlings, partly because of the different personalities of Catterick and Shankley, one who hated the press and gave them nothing, the other loved publicity and that schism has stayed. Martinez is popular with the press and that's good. But Liverpool and their fans , particularly "plastic reds", have changed since the sixties and seventies and in those days we did stand together at derby games. At matches today there's a schism and Liverpool are a global brand, while we are still a club in our city and that schism has bred hostility and I feel it too. I don't want us to lose, but I don't want Liverpool to be champions.
Over many events, Hillsborough ,in particular, we are as one, but on the field and the terraces, we are no longer two friendly lots, despite the family ties many of us have. They have gloried in their wins, and never shown any humility, perhaps we'd have been the same, but I don't remember us being so in the 60s and 80s.
Paul Andrews
305 Posted 29/04/2014 at 16:38:48
I wish Alcaraz and Seamus would have kept the two headers back until this week
Brian Wilkinson
306 Posted 29/04/2014 at 16:34:40
Dave Rusk, Let me put it this way: I have followed Everton home and away since my first visit to Goodison Park in the mid-seventies.

I've seen Clive Thomas rob us, I've seen Emlyn Hughes sing "Liverpool are magic, Everton are tragic", I've seen Hansen rob us of a victory in the '84 League Cup Final, I've seen arguably one of the finest Everton teams denied a crack at the European Cup through no fault of their own.

I have seen a winning goal by Hutchison with the last kick of the game ruled out; I have seen a most biased Derby where kung fu kicks only picked up a yellow card, a yellow card changed to a red on advice of Stevie G; I've seen Lescott wrestled to the ground and get nothing; I've seen Geoff Nulty's career ended by Jimmy "Shithouse" Case.

I've seen the cry-arses having the rules changed to allow them to compete in the Champions League. I've seen the most cheating dispising player get away with it week after week and pick up the player of the year.

So the answer to your question is: I would rather have the snip without a local needle than help our neighbours lift the title and a summer of having to hear all the shite from our neighbours' fans.

Richard Farrington
307 Posted 29/04/2014 at 16:22:22
Steve Woods, (60), perfect.
Tony Draper
308 Posted 29/04/2014 at 17:28:08
I want Everton to win on Saturday

I "now" want City to take the Premiership

I want Everton to qualify for CL next season

I do not see any of the above as being mutually exclusive

Martin Kulkarni
309 Posted 29/04/2014 at 17:35:34
Richard @302. Couldnt agree more. Tremendous Steve.
Anthony Flack
310 Posted 29/04/2014 at 18:00:22
Brian (8) - brilliant timeline, very personally evocative

- remember my dad coming home from Maine Road in 1977 distraught, still is in fact
- Cases tackle on Nulty was my first Derby
- I was at the game in 1984 when Hansen robbed us. I later went on to work for his brother and had the opportunity to ask him about it. Bastard still denied it hit his arm
- I was thrown out of the Upper Bullens when Hutchinsons goal was disallowed (trying to get to the ref)

On a more delicate and personal note, I had my nuts done a couple of years ago, all went wrong. I pretty much passed out after 2 hours of tugging and pulling when the Doctor said "is that it shall I cut it" - really would not recommend it, but would go through it again if it meant they do not win the league....

Anthony Flack
311 Posted 29/04/2014 at 18:00:22
Brian (#306) - brilliant timeline, very personally evocative

- remember my dad coming home from Maine Road in 1977 distraught, still is in fact
- Cases tackle on Nulty was my first Derby
- I was at the game in 1984 when Hansen robbed us. I later went on to work for his brother and had the opportunity to ask him about it. Bastard still denied it hit his arm
- I was thrown out of the Upper Bullens when Hutchinsons goal was disallowed (trying to get to the ref)

On a more delicate and personal note, I had my nuts done a couple of years ago, all went wrong. I pretty much passed out after 2 hours of tugging and pulling when the Doctor said "is that it shall I cut it" - really would not recommend it, but would go through it again if it meant they do not win the league....

Sean Roberts
312 Posted 29/04/2014 at 17:53:28
Dan Force 43.
Grow up, lad. Yes, we were banned from Europe because of the Liverpool fans but for us to throw a game??? A game that if we win or draw guarantees us the European football that you're still holding a grudge on us missing out on from nearly 30 years ago. We hate the Shite but surely want our team to do what they do best and win football games to bring our own success.

Don't be lulled to thinking all we have to do is turn up at Hull to get the points; this is their last home game of the season and they will want to put on a show for their fans so, if we throw the Man City game then get beat at Hull and end up missing out on Europe, who do we blame then?

Colin Glassar
313 Posted 29/04/2014 at 17:56:06
Rick Tarleton, 100% spot on. Everything was cool between us during the ’60s, I even felt sorry for them when they lost the Fairs Cup Final to Borrusia Dortmund on the flip of a coin. Or when a young, unknown Dutch kid called Johann Cruyff ripped them apart playing for Ajax. I also remember them sympathising with us after the WBA FA Cup Final.

The schism began in the ’70s when they started to win English and European titles. The arrogance and bitterness towards us became overwhelming. It got to a point that you couldn’t walk around town with anything blue on or get on a bus with an Everton scarf because the gobshites would give you endless abuse.

Yes, I’m bitter towards them and yes, I’m quite prepared to accept a Man City win. First, and last time, I will ever say this.

Brent Stephens
314 Posted 29/04/2014 at 18:15:06
Everton as a club are not going to throw the game on Saturday. Absolutely no chance. Who would initiate discussion about that in the club? Who on earth would think they would get away with it. Aint going to happen.

The only way for the game to be thrown is if one individual hates the rs so much that they give a goal or two away, or miss a chance or two, or both! Who, likely to be playing, hates the rs so much as to do that?

Peter Sutton
315 Posted 29/04/2014 at 18:23:57
John Brennan, Airborne, Valhalla, you must be one of us!, or you should be.....2 Para
Robbie Muldoon
316 Posted 29/04/2014 at 18:29:41
Deluded kopites are convinced we are going to roll over for City, what a strange world they live in.
Tahir Abdullah
317 Posted 29/04/2014 at 18:32:04
And after all the debate on here, I wonder what Ric Wee's view on the dilemma is. He's coming back to GP on Saturday; link here http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2615867/Malaysian-Everton-fan-Ric-Wee-heads-Goodison-Park-Manchester-City-game-match-30-years-postponed-bad-weather.html
Colin Glassar
318 Posted 29/04/2014 at 18:37:33
Tahir, if I was Roberto Martinez I’d put Ric Wee up front with Vellios.
James Hughes
319 Posted 29/04/2014 at 18:28:04
Brain #8
you have convinced me.
I have posted on here that I always want us to win no matter what. we share those memories you so eloquently stated, for me you are putting my record straight.
I always hate it when we lose, and I loathe Cittee almost as much as them, but now maybe one loss that doesn't hurt so much
cheers pal
Jim Bennings
320 Posted 29/04/2014 at 18:35:28
The one result I just do NOT want on Saturday is a draw..

Either an Everton win to sign off our campaign at Goodison or a City win.

A draw does absolutely fuck all for us and basically hands the title to that lot on a plate.

It would be just like us to play out of our skins like we should have done against Palace when we had the opportunity to drive home the advantage for 4th.

As it is it's too late now for the Champions League so really I won't be losing too much sleep if we lose to City.

I don't particularly want us to lose, damn it I have never wanted us to lose.

I just don't want Liverpool winning the Premier League more if that makes any sense.?

Something tells me it's going to be a weekend of very little sense whatsoever.

Mohammed Horoub
321 Posted 29/04/2014 at 18:36:07
Tahir, that's hilarious! Hopefully his luck holds and the City game gets postponed to Thu or Fri. That would help the dilemma a little. This has been a great thread and I respect all sides (because it seems there's more than 2) Despite all the arguments for an Everton win, I worked with 3 RS supporters from 2003-2006 (none of them were from Liverpool!) and it was unbearable. I can't even imagine what it would be like in the city of Liverpool...sorry but I'll be doing the Poznan on Saturday if City win.
Andy Meighan
322 Posted 29/04/2014 at 18:50:05
Brian, I couldn't have put it better myself. I went to all the games you mentioned and it still makes my skin crawl when I think of every slimy bastard referee that's sided with them down the years.

As for anyone wanting us to win on Saturday, they want their marbles feeling. I don't know of one blue who wants us to win and believe me I know a few. The Champions League has gone so what difference does it make if we lose?

The league was taken out of their hands on Sunday with Chelsea's win. Lets hope it stays that way. They've had the victory parade before they've picked the cup up and boy am I going to wallow in that if they do miss out. Unfortunately I still think they will win it...

I don't know why but I think we could draw or beat Man City, our record is excellent against them at home. Let's hope it ends by 7:30 Saturday night. If Man City win, they'll lose or draw at Palace. If we win, they'll slaughter them. Fine lines... let's just hope our boys don't put us in for a miserable summer.

Andy Meighan
323 Posted 29/04/2014 at 19:04:07
Oh and by the way when have that shite ever done us any favours. They haven't
Tahir Abdullah
324 Posted 29/04/2014 at 19:01:11
Colin @308; burst out laughing at that comment.

Mohammed @309 agreed; Ric Wee actually seeing the match will be one of two things I'll hold thumbs for re the City match. The other is that we graciously allow City to win. Hate the shite; love EFC!

Eugene Ruane
325 Posted 29/04/2014 at 18:35:55
Brent (69) - "Everton as a club are not going to throw the game on Saturday. Absolutely no chance. Who would initiate discussion about that in the club?"

Even the idea of that discussion tickles me, as does the idea of..um..someone..initiating it.

Imagine what it would ACTUALLY involve.

Cut to the players after a training session at Finch Farm as they sit around goosed.

Jags: "Be tough on Saturday"

No one responds.

Jags: "Just sayin' lads, be a hard game against City like"

Baines: (sly look at Distin) "Naah, be fine"

Distin smiles.

Jags: "What was that - that smile?"

Distin: "Ah can smaaaal eef ah waant, or eez eet aggenz ze low?"

Players all around the dressing room are sniggering

Jags looks puzzled.

Jags: "What....what is going on here?"

Baines: "Look lad, you've been out for a while and things have....'changed'"

The rest of the squad menacingly circle Jags.

Baines: "We're not winning on Saturday, we're losing - badly"

Jags: "WHAT!? But...WHY?"

Baines: "Why!? Coz it'll fuck 'them' up, THAT'S why?"

Jags: "You won't get away with it, I intend to play as well as I can"

Everyone laughs.

Baines: "Well then we'll lose REALLY fucking badly"

Jags: "I'm going to tell Los gafferos!"

Everyone looks at each other.

Jags opens the door but is immediately confronted by big Dunc who is 'coincidentally' right outside.

Dunc: "Whit's goan on wee man?"

Jags: "Duncan, they..um.. all say they're all going to throw the City game!!"

Dunc: "Ach they're only havin' a wee bit fun with ye, noo hoose that injury o' yours?"

Jags: "Er actually It feels fine, right as rai....what are you doi....AAAAAAAGGGHHHHH!!!!"

Baines turns to Stones and winks.

They leave the changies with the prone Jags writhing in agony.

Baines is the last to leave.

Baines: "By the way ball-bag, it was the bosses fucking idea"

We leave Jags alone on the floor.

Jags: "No...NO!....NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!"

Cue Eastenders end drums.

Paul Martin
326 Posted 29/04/2014 at 19:39:54
As a season ticket holder for 20+ years, this is the first game I can ever recall that I really do not want to go.

If we win, we hand the RS the title (practically). Gutting.
If we lose.. well, who really enjoys watching us lose, regardless of the situation.
A draw is the worst outcome.

I'm slightly ashamed to say I'm in the 'hope we lose' camp. The crown reaction to a goal for either side will be interesting to say the least.

Mark Stone
327 Posted 29/04/2014 at 19:55:51
No dilemma for me. I want Everton to win every game. If Man City don't win the league its because of their results all season, not just this one game. Couldn't give a crap what it means for Liverpool either way.
Brian Wilkinson
328 Posted 29/04/2014 at 19:56:54
To add more to my debate, add 5 times to it, those smug arrogant reds talking of victory parade 2 weeks ago, add also so bluenoses how many times have you won the Premier League, the two-hour special rolled out on ITV about Stevie G and how his dream of finally lifting the Premier League trophy came true.

Next season, our loss to City, should we lose, will be forgotten. Should we win and gift the shite the title, expect it for decades to be rolled out from that shower across the park.

Finally and its a big ask, Everton to be the first to win the Premier League how that would hurt our neighbours? So, if it means an Everton loss, long term at least we will not have to hear about them winning the Premier League.

Rob Halligan
329 Posted 29/04/2014 at 18:48:00
When I introduced myself to this site a few weeks back, I stated that in the last 12 years I had only ever missed 2 league games and 2 league cup games, all away. A total of FOUR games missed in 12 years.

So there is not one person on this site who can say I am not a true blue because I want city to win on Saturday. A lot of us are saying we will accept defeat compared to other losses, and that is how I feel.

I haven't spent thousands of pounds over the years wanting us to lose, but I am quite willing to pay the 29 or whatever it is per game for a season ticket to watch us lose on Saturday, if it means stopping them bastards winning the title.

Every reason for not wanting them to win the title has already been qouted above, so I won't go through them again. However I particularly agree 100% with Colin glassar 305, about the troubles in the 70's, and Rick Tarleton, 300, re: the shankly and emlyn Hughes qoutes, because back then they were no bigger or smaller a club than us, not until they won the European cup in 1977 anyway. FFS it took them until 1965 to win the FA cup for the first time.

So yes, this Saturday is payback time, again for all reasons quoted above. And if they don't win it, it won't be because we lost against city, it will be because they weren't good enough. All this moaning about Chelsea parking "two buses". Well why the fuck didnt Rodgers tell his team to just sit in their own half and leave the ball on the centre spot, after all a draw in that game and the title was theirs!! Maybe Rodgers is not such a good manager as they think.

And don't give me all this shit about city could still blow it. Villa and west ham at home, I don't think so!!!

Mark Griffiths
330 Posted 29/04/2014 at 20:06:44
Brian (11&12) - Funny mate. I spat my tea out! BTW, I keep putting my snip off as I cannot face the thought of some doctor rumaging around my happy sacs!
Colin Dixon
331 Posted 29/04/2014 at 19:58:23
Brian#8, I too was there in '77 when Hughes scrambled for the mic like a dog with two dicks to proclaim "Liverpool are Magic Everton are Tragic." I recall the Everton supporters in the crowd who had gone along for the ocassion going mental and turning away to head home... Sadly I believe he did live with this misjudgement of his error for the rest of his life.

I was in a nightclub in Taunton one Thursday night in 1985 when Noticing three current / ex -Liverpool players there: Hughes, Souness & Fairclough. Birds around them like flies around... well exactly... On walking into the toilet, Hughes was there holding himself up against the toilet wall for all he was worth whilst taking a piss. I confronted him by repeating out loud what he said in '77.

At first, no response as he was only a few from being horizontal.. But them when he realised what I had said, the change from someone who was near on smashed to angry & sober was frightening...

He raced over whilst I was in mid flow and lifted me by the neck, and shoving me up the wall. Here I was 18 years of age being physically assaulted by one of them. He screamed at me repeatedly to "Leave it out son, I've had that thrown at me all my fucking life."

Not knowing what to do and hardly being able to breathe I just kept pissing on him as he had dragged me away from the wall whilst in mid flow... As he let go of me and put me down he still had not realised all the front of his light grey trousers were steamin'. You could say, just like him.

"I Misjudged the situation"
"What goes around......."

Tahir Abdullah
332 Posted 29/04/2014 at 20:50:36
Another reason for some to slag off Ossie; he's going to give his best for the sake of the shite on Saturday. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2616171/Leon-Osman-promises-Liverpool-Mersey-rivals-Everton-beat-Reds-title-rivals-Man-City.html
Derek Williams
333 Posted 29/04/2014 at 20:54:32
Everything Brian Wilkinson says above!! We must be about the same age, Brian. Whilst 4th was still a realistic possibility (as opposed to just a mathematical one) I was all for beating City and praying for a Palace turn up. Given where we are now, there's only one result I want on Saturday.

Where are my Oasis CDs?

Bitter? Me? Yep, as a feckin' lemon!!

Mike Hughes
334 Posted 29/04/2014 at 21:52:12
Tahir #313

Yeah, but Everton do pre-match sound-bites really well.
It's a relic of the Phil Neville era.

Tom Bowers
335 Posted 29/04/2014 at 21:55:34
I think we are all in agreement, although some don't want to admit to it, but much as I want the Blues to win every game, I won't be disappointed if the lose on Saturday.

As Everton have most delightfully overachieved this season, I also believe the RS have too! The RS for the last few months have lived in la-la land when everything went right for them but they crashed to earth when the pressure was on against Chelsea.

Robert Workman
336 Posted 29/04/2014 at 22:26:06
Will this thread have reached 1,000 by 5.30pm on saturday ?
Colin Gee
337 Posted 29/04/2014 at 22:26:40
Brian #303 that's exactly the reason for the first time since I was born a blue 45 years ago I don't want Everton to win on Saturday. I posted as such further up the thread.

You want another reason? That bloody 'Steua Bucharest 1986' flag, that sums them up, they are utter scum.

How can people from the same city be so different? Evertonians are class and dignity, Kopites are utter gobshites. I thank god every day I am a blue!

Paul Andrews
338 Posted 29/04/2014 at 22:46:04
Remember the Wimbledon game?

They had built coffins with the Everton crest on them.

If the result went against us, they were going to walk past Goodison with them...

Kev Thomas
339 Posted 29/04/2014 at 22:50:19
Sorry, I can't agree with the premise of the OP. Granted, it'll be painful to see Liverpool win it: seeing that crease headed gbh loving bastard lift it, and the Red Echo going wild over them will devastate me. However, to want Everton to lose is beyond me; they may still mess up when when we win on Saturday, so it's a "no from me, I'm out".

Also, being an Evertonian from and still currently (and probably perpetually) living in Liverpool, I'm trying to console myself that Liverpool winning it might be good for the city. Also I sywped the word 'Evertonian', and the best predictive text could come back with was 'idiot'. Make of that what you will!

Paul Smith
340 Posted 29/04/2014 at 23:05:00
I'm won't be disappointed if we lose on Saturday. Every cloud has a silver lining and all that.

The red gobshites are contemptible and not a humble bone in their bodies. I can't believe they were already celebrating on Sunday, before the game! Then fighting outside Anfield, straight after, when reality had sunk in.

No, I won't be too disappointed if we lose and City go on to pip them at the post. Always liked Oasis anyhow. In a Champagne supernova...........sky........in a..........

John Atkins
341 Posted 29/04/2014 at 23:35:23
So angry with comments on here... I can't believe anyone wants us to win!

Do you really really know what it will be like if that shower win it bollocks to we are better than them blar blar blar. Get real it will be hell.

I love this club with all my heart and have done for 40 years. I hope we lose; bitter too right I am to the core. I hate that club with passion, I want to stick two fingers up to them come Saturday evening.

Neil Owens
342 Posted 29/04/2014 at 23:45:54
Ste Gerard, Gerard,
He passed it to Demba Ba,
Then slipped on his fuckin arse,
Ste Gerard, Gerard..........
Simon Bradley
343 Posted 30/04/2014 at 00:02:32
Thank you Michael/Lyndon for re-creating this as an article, rather than just a post in an earlier thread it get more exposure. It was my first post on ToffeeWeb, but I have been an avid reader of this site for a very long time.

For all those that have disagreed with me, I fully understand your comments and reasons for not wanting the Blues to lose on Saturday. But I'll put it another away: would you be happy with this ending to the season?

Liverpool win their two remaining games; Arsenal win one more game; Spurs win all their remaining games.; United win all their remaining games; we lose to City then beat Hull; City win their two remaining games. Chelsea? Doesn't matter if all above transpires.

My views regarding Europe are this: I do not want to enter the Champions League just to be unceremoniously dumped out in the first round. If we see new faces arrive in the summer (I'm fully expecting at least 5-6), with the World Cup taking place the chances are high that any transfer activity for us or any club will probably be towards the end of the window. Would our expanded team have had enough time to gel and tackle Europe's elite? I think not. That's why I would gladly settle for a sustained top 4 push and a decent run in the Europa league in 2014-15. We are rebuilding. It will only be RM's second season. I can live with that. And it will be successful.

What I'm trying to say is this, if all the other results go our way like I mentioned above, is a loss to City all that bad?

No, I don't really care what Liverpool FC do. But I do care about the way that their team and its supporters treat Everton. They are all coming out now and saying we are bitter. Ask any Liverpool fan about United's success, their public derision of the Failings of David Moyes. Oh, and remember the Wimbledon game? Do any of you seriously think they wanted anything other than for us to be relegated?

Again, just my thoughts. And to some of you who have posted saying I'm not an Evertonian for having these thoughts I hate to disappoint you, but I am. My wife and two sons are the only things on this earth that matter to me more than Everton Football Club.

Mike Price
344 Posted 30/04/2014 at 00:00:41
If Everton come out really pumped up and put in a high tempo performance then that would be a disgrace. We didn't do it when it really mattered against Palace or Soton but when the pressures off they perform!

They better not as it would benefit that arrogant scum and project them ahead like that nightmare scenario in 2005 did.
Even if we lose every blue should know to keep their mouth shut until it finally is over because Gerrard scoring their 10th goal in injury time to win it, is not beyond the realms...

That's why I'd like a heavy defeat, goal difference and the joy from them knowing we were a complicit part in it would be absolute nectar, but only if Man City, or even better Chelsea win it. The 'slip' would also be career defining and would make me beyond happy in the way only Michael Thomas ever has.

Spragg Johnson
345 Posted 30/04/2014 at 00:22:31
Here, here John Atkins. We can lose without making it obvious surely? Martinez will say all of the right things of course, but I'm certainly hoping for a defeat (for the first time in 32 years of support). Even my nine year old son knows this makes sense ... And his middle name is literally Everton.

Too many PC, namby pamby do gooders on here ... This "I don't care what Liverpool do" nonsense is doing my head in. I can't stand that shower. Even if we had a better chance of beating Arsenal to 4th, I'd still be desperate for the red s**te NOT to win a title ... Ever. I'd only want a win if it meant WE could pip them to the title.

Andy Crooks
346 Posted 30/04/2014 at 00:55:45
As I don't live in Liverpool, I really should stay out of this debate but...it does seem odd to read that a "high tempo performance would be a disgrace". However , Mike, I absolutely get your point.
David Cornmell
347 Posted 30/04/2014 at 00:45:57
Man City are moneyed chokers. Even if they give us a tonking, they'll fuck up against Villa more than likely.

The highlight of this weekend is to see off Bobby and the boys in total comfort. All three possible results give Blues fans some consolation, and that's the way I suggest Evertonians look at it. A rare consequence: free day out in the May sun.

Si Cooper
348 Posted 30/04/2014 at 02:14:22
As a supporter I put what is best for my club ahead of any personal attacks I may get simply for being a supporter of my team.

Beating City is what is best for the team and the Club, so that is what I hope for. If I then have to put up with the crowing of the RS then so be it. I will be consoled by the fact that we will have proven that we have improved and can compete at the highest level and that ultimately they needed a bit of help from us to get the prize.

Si Cooper
349 Posted 30/04/2014 at 02:30:31
I don't understand why any Evertonian would want us not to qualify for Europe this year.

The Europa League offers the tangible rewards of a place in the Champions League for the winner, prize money approaching 10 million, high profile European ties and the associated matchday revenues, and the ability to attract players who want to appear on such a stage.

We can roll out the U21s for the early rounds of the domestic competitons to spread the effort around the squad.

Mark Stewart
350 Posted 30/04/2014 at 04:55:10
Spragg Johnson's comments say it all for me.

Gerrard will be immortalised if they win the PL; if they don't then his legacy will be "that slip".

Think about that for a second and then ask yourself who you REALLY want to win on Saturday?

Matt Traynor
351 Posted 30/04/2014 at 06:21:32
Si #341, there's been lots of comment from people on other threads that they would rather see us miss out on Europa League if we don't get CL. On none of those threads, as far as I know, has anyone been accused of not being a "proper Evertonian", yet here, it's been thrown around like confetti.

Everyone has their opinion, we can't ever get consensus on the best formation, or player for such-and-such a position, so why people become so entrenched in their views is beyond me.

Personally, I would take Europa as it gives us an opportunity to get experience for players, improve our co-efficient to try to get to a point where we aren't pitted against the favourites every round, and of course, from next season the winners, rightfully, will go into the CL.

But I also hope on Saturday we give our all, and go down to an unfortunate defeat. Ideally, a really controversial penalty in the 7th minute of injury time. If we at least look like we tried they couldn't accuse us of not? Of course they will. So let them seethe and complain about the injustice, with not a hint of irony.

And if anyone thinks that makes me less of a Blue, that's their opinion.

Paul Andrews
352 Posted 30/04/2014 at 06:26:39
Kev Thomas,

"Liverpool winning it would be good for the city"

In what way Kev?

Mike Price
353 Posted 30/04/2014 at 06:39:12
From a players point I would not like to go down in lore as the person that won the redshite a title. Any player that actually gets this club, would then be a pariah to us and a patronized joke figure to them...the ultimate no win/maximum hate scenario for the unfortunate individual.
Just don't do it!
Steve Cotton
354 Posted 30/04/2014 at 07:37:58
If we beat city, what are the odds that City will get Clattenberg doing both their two home games? City will have to play against 12 men without a doubt. These decisions to give him nearly all LFCs crucial games are absolutely unbelievable. Brian Barwick Mk ll someone at the league HQ has either put a monkey on LFC winning it or more likely are closet reds!

Like most of the countries media!

Raymond Fox
355 Posted 30/04/2014 at 07:52:51
I don't want us in the Europa League, because for me it will cock up next seasons PL.

Much better in my opinion to concentrate on the league. If playing in that comp. means risking more injuries, tiredness, staleness, forget it.

Plus the fact that RM has said we will need 6 more players, where's the transfer money going to come from, not to mention the new players wages.

We should be concentrating on quality next season not numbers.

Tony Farrell
356 Posted 30/04/2014 at 08:19:00
We all hate the shite from across the park, but come on, lads, we dont want to get beat by Man City. We want to win every game we play...

If we get beat Saturday and then get beat at Hull (Jelly last minute) and Man Utd win all their games, we could end up 7th. So blueboys, if we do beat Man City and the Dark Side win the league, we can always say "We won it for ya!"

Anyhow palace might beat them Monday night, so who gives a shit about them? We want to win!!

Brian Williams
357 Posted 30/04/2014 at 08:08:27
If we still had a "realistic" chance of fourth then it's win every game and gain every point. Thing is we all, more or less, (barring a minor miracle) accept that fourth has gone and Champions league with it.
While I salute those in this thread that say "it's all about us, forget about them" and "don't care what they do I want to beat City"....They're obviously better men than me because there is no way on God's earth I want us to hand them the title by beating City.
The years of taunts and behaviour (from "most" and I say most because my father in law is actually one of the few decent RS supporters I know who wishes Everton well he's in his late 70's so from a different era and mindset) the years of their superiority complex (probably somewhat justified to be brutally honest), but their total lack of class and hatred of us. For those of you who think some of us are obsessed with them should take a peek at some of THEIR fan sites. Oh they hate us alright and are totally delusional.
Most of the RS supporters I know have no class, have absolutely no appreciation of the irony of Heysel v Hillsborough. When a TV and paper report showed RS supporters stealing tickets from other RS supporters who'd fallen when a barrier had been knocked over at an away European game some years ago the cried "fix" and "setup"......
This is one of those situations where we're fucked if we do and fucked if we don't.
We win, we could hand them the title, and classless knobs that they are they'll rub it in for years.
We lose and City go on to win the title and they'll blame us and call us "Bitters" and accuse us of not winning because we couldn't stand them winning the title............but at least below all that I'll know that they'll be sick as pigs.
Call me small minded and disgusting, but the thought of us stopping them winning the title and preventing them continuing with their crass, smug, we deserve everything attitude..........PRICELESS!
The City game is one I can handle losing I'm afraid. I'll get over it because in the big picture with regard to our season it won't change much.
I can also handle the fact that my feeling make me a less than perfect person, but I wouldn't be like this without their behaviour over so many years.
To those who want us to beat City and hand them the title, I admire your strength of character.
I'm not one of them.........and I sleep just fine with that sentiment.
Nick Entwistle
358 Posted 30/04/2014 at 09:48:16
Being an Everton fan, there's little in the way of accomplishment to warm the cockles. The next best thing is to see the shite not winning. And if Stevie G goes his entire career without getting his hands on that trophy it will be like winning a cup. I will celebrate the day he retires - hopefully, electrocution by turntable. I think we can look past one game if it screws them over. As someone posted in the week, with CL they probably won't be in the running next season and this is about as close as he will get. Tit.
Rick Tarleton
359 Posted 30/04/2014 at 11:31:37
Brian, you're probably right about how Liverpool supporters consistently refuse to acknowledge the issue of Heysel and I think for me it is Heysel that made my separation from Liverpool the club so marked. I'm under no illusions, the fans of any club in the mid-eighties could have done what the Liverpool fans did, the mores and attitude of football fans at that time was such that it really is a case for all clubs to say, "There but for the grace of God..."
But afterwards and I was in Italy when it happened, and that was awful, I was in a restaurant on the Giudecca in Venice and I went in to ask how the game was going and the barman said , they're murdering us. I assumed it was a metaphor and Liverpool were winning four nil or something. The next morning I found out the truth. Gangs of young men were looking for English people, though it was braggadacio rather than the real thing. I spoke cod American till we left Venice three days later.
At home I was amazed that even then the focus wasn't on the forty odd deaths, but on what would happen to English football. Everton talked about their chance of a European Cup disappearing and Liverpool really just kept their head down.
Liverpool survived the aftermath far better than Everton and in fact, post Heysel we disappeared as a major force till recently. In essence Liverpool robbed Everton of the chance to consolidate their European Cup Winners triumph with a campaign in the European Cup. I've always felt that the murders of the Juventus fans was underplayed by all parties in England, but especially by Liverpool. Though I mentioned four moments that made me feel less amicable to Liverpool fans and the club itself, Heysel and its aftermath is the key event and the reason why the "Friendly Derby" disappeared.
Robert Workman
360 Posted 30/04/2014 at 12:22:17
Is anyone keeping a record of those for or against beating City? It seems about 30-70 at present.

I wonder if that may change on saturday if West Ham beat Spurs and Man Utd fail to beat Sunderland - all before our late kick off.

Eugene Ruane
361 Posted 30/04/2014 at 12:28:05
Mark Stewart - "Gerrard will be immortalised if they win the PL; if they don't then his legacy will be 'that slip'. Think about that for a second and then ask yourself who you REALLY want to win on Saturday?"

Jesus, you don't make it easy do you?

John Crook
362 Posted 30/04/2014 at 12:32:08
I find it concerning that defeat on Saturday could roll over to another defeat against Hull on the final day (a team desperate to put on a good show to cement their FA Cup Final starting places).

And if Spurs and Man Utd win their remaining games (a high possibility) then both would overhaul us (Man Utd on goal difference) meaning we would finish 7th. 7th would mean we have gone backwards from last year!

Steve Pugh
363 Posted 30/04/2014 at 12:38:41
People are saying no to Europa League because it will mess up next season's PL campaign. Being in the Europa gives us two chances of getting Champions League the following season... and I think we could win the Europa League.
Terence Leong
364 Posted 30/04/2014 at 12:40:02
Ok, let's try / imagine this:

Bill Kenright says in a media interview, "I hope we lose the Man City game. I have asked Roberto to see to it."

Martinez says in an interview that "we have trained all week, ready to lose it with some arrogance, and phenomenally."

The skipper says "I can't wait to lead the boys out again on that hallowed turf, ready to let Man City hit us with a sucker punch."

Doesn't sound too right, does it? We would have crucified any of them for the audacity to say something like this. But... It's okay, we are true fans. We can say what we like. The rest above are just employees. What do they know about supporting the great club?

For those of you who feel strongly and wished with all your heart that we lose the game to Man City, you are entitled to do that. Just stay at home and don't bother turning up at Goodison. The players don't need fans who are sending them conflicting messages.

Chris Leyland
365 Posted 30/04/2014 at 12:59:14
Here is what Jamie Redknapp said in 2010, reflecting on the time the Shite played Blackburn in the same circumstances:

"I scored from a late free-kick to beat Blackburn 2-1 at Anfield. I've never heard the Kop so quiet after a Liverpool goal, it was eerie. Everybody thought my goal had just handed the title to Manchester United, and it didn't sit quite right with the fans. On the pitch, we were fine with it. Our professional pride had kicked in and we wanted to win the game. End of."

Like many Everton fans now for Saturday, the Shite's fans wanted them to lose that game. But Redknapp's point about the players will be true of our team on Saturday.

Our player's won't go out and deliberately lose the game against Man City. However, if we do end up losing, then I won't be crying myself to sleep... but thousands of the Shite's fans will.

Tony McNulty
366 Posted 30/04/2014 at 13:21:30
1) I want Everton to win always.

2) As regards those who don't, all of our views are irrelevant anyway. Do you think our manager, given the way he is, his character, as well as the sorts of comments he made at Anfield recently, could send out a team to do anything other than win?

3) Gerrard is going to screw it up for them anyway. It is written in the stars.

Nick Entwistle
368 Posted 30/04/2014 at 13:28:40
Exactly Chris, this is all about what the fan would prefer. I can't imagine Stones, Alcaraz or Coleman not wanting to make emends for Southampton. Bains and Barkley have a flight to Brazil to consider. Lukaku proving himself to Mourinho. As the brilliant football brain says, professional pride will kick in. Only the fans don't get paid, so can be as amateur as they like!
Kevin Tully
369 Posted 30/04/2014 at 13:31:53
What if Arsenal only draw against West Brom and lose against Norwich on the final day? Those results could quite easily happen with two teams fighting to stay in the Premier League.

Two wins could give us 4th after all. I only wish Arsenal were playing before us. Redshite's are crowing about Everton having 20 million supporters on Saturday and 19,960,000 will be reds. Listening to shit like that makes me want to support City, but how can we while we're still in with a shout of 4th?


Andrew Ellams
370 Posted 30/04/2014 at 13:49:14
We can always blame injuries and not being able to play Barry (now there is something for the RS to whinge about).
Martin Kulkarni
371 Posted 30/04/2014 at 14:01:30
Trust me Kevin (360), we aren't in with a chance of fourth. We had our chances. The players/manager blew them. This team has no backbone or any leaders.
Bill Gall
372 Posted 30/04/2014 at 14:12:19
I have been told that, if Everton lose on Saturday, there will be a day of mourning in Norway.
Dan Forde
373 Posted 30/04/2014 at 14:33:29
Sean Roberts, Grow up! Cheeky fucker.
This is the RS's last shot at the title for a long, long time. Germ is ready for his swan song and Real Madrid will take Rat'ole off them for sure this summer, then it's over.

OK, (Sean is excluded) hands up who wants to see Stevie fuckin' Germ lift the title... at the start of single footy show on air FOREVER!!! I think I can see a way out of this.

Nigel Dooley
374 Posted 30/04/2014 at 14:22:41
Brian, your post is spot on and I remember every event all too clearly.

I have never wanted Everton to lose a game in all the years I have supported them... but, on this occasion, I will make an exception.

I have given my season ticket away; I won't be watching any of it on TV, which in itself is sad, as I especially love going to the last home game of the season.

No-one can tell me I'am a bad supporter for wanting Man City to win. I love Everton with a passion and always will and will be back at the Old Lady next season being put through the mill. If anybody doesn't understand this decision, then they haven't supported us as long as I have. COYB.

Shane Corcoran
375 Posted 30/04/2014 at 14:56:11
Backbones and leaders all-round this summer per Martin #362.

Is there another ingredient we need to win the league. Several pairs of balls perhaps and a litre of luck.

Steve Sweeney
376 Posted 30/04/2014 at 13:28:32
What will be, will be... I just couldn't stand it if SteMe got his hands on that trophy.

Pity it wasn't us playing on Monday night. It would be great if Palace and the Barcodes beat them.

Peter Bell
377 Posted 30/04/2014 at 15:23:54
Chris Leyland @363, that is utter shite, what you and Redknapp said.

Watch the goal again. Redknapp has just curled a free kick into the top corner of the net in the very last minute of the game, and he says all the RS players remained professional. Bollocks!

In normal circumstances, they would have all been jumping all over each other and rolling on the floor, but no-one even went near Redknapp, just the occasional pat on the back and shake of the hand.

They believed they handed Man Utd the league and knew it.

Nick Entwistle
378 Posted 30/04/2014 at 16:09:05
They can put in the performance, Peter, doesn't mean they have to like it.

Such as Denis Law's backheel against Man Utd sending them down or players who don't celebrate scoring against their old team.

And I mean the one's who really don't celebrate, not like Ronaldo who was all too aware of his 'big man' gesture of not celebrating at Old Trafford.

Dan Forde
379 Posted 30/04/2014 at 17:56:30
It wasn't my intention to upset anybody before. Sorry guys.
Keith Berry
380 Posted 30/04/2014 at 18:01:33
No Brainer this. Brenda crying over Chelsea spoiling the game is the last straw.

I recall being enthralled for a decade with the "beautiful game" - Hughes hoofs the ball to Toshack who knocks it down for Keegan to squeeze it in after two deflections.

It's 1000/1 that Arsenal won't pick up 2 points with their run in.

Let City have it!!

We'll beat Hull to finish 5th they're thinking Wembley!

Great stepping stone this season top 4 next

Si Cooper
381 Posted 30/04/2014 at 17:54:15
"I would not like to go down in lore as the person that won the redshite a title. Any player that actually gets this club, would then be a pariah to us" that's the attitude I just don't understand. Why would we make one of our players a pariah for doing his best for the team?

None of us WANT them to win the league, but that would not be wholly because of one result it will because of all the games each team has played this season.

Where do people expect us to be aiming for in the league next season if we don't make it into the Europa League? Does anyone really expect the Board will provide funds for the reinforcements needed to go for Champions League qualification without the spur of expectation that will come from playing in Europe next season?

Jim Lloyd
382 Posted 30/04/2014 at 18:38:25
Terence, Who on earth are you to say don't turn up if you want City to win. It's amazing this thread. We have a bunch of righteous supporters acting like a medieval ecclesiastical court, ready to hand out judgements to the heretics who don't happen to fall in with their view.

I've been going since around 1960, seen some great sides and some (well, loads) of average at best. I always want to see EFC at the top of the tree like we were in the early 60's and mid 80's.

This though, to me, is about the potential for that shower over the park to win the league. If Everton lose the game, it is less likely that the shower will win the league. Not impossible, it isn't a given but it lessens their chances. On the day, I'll be going and that is all I will be hoping for, well that we lose 4 3 in a brilliant game and we have no injuries.

So if that doesn't fit in with the friggin, self styled Inquisition, tough shit baby, as someone once said.

Robbie Muldoon
383 Posted 30/04/2014 at 18:51:30
It's not mathematically impossible to finish 4th yet, I'd rather we won it. But I'll be able to cope with defeat! A draw though, nightmare result.
Linda Morrison
385 Posted 30/04/2014 at 19:03:29
I just do not understand you lot! We need to be in Europe to show we are moving on so I do not want to be going into the Hull game hoping for something!

If Liverpool win the league, it will be down to the fact that the rest did not do enough.

Colin Glassar
386 Posted 30/04/2014 at 19:38:53
I’ve been meditating on this for the last couple of days and this is what I think will happen.

The lads will give it their all, they will go at Man City and try and win the game. Unfortunately, City’s billions will count in the end and they will win 1-2. We will be proud of the lads but, despite the loss, we still have 5th place assured as both Spurs and Man Utd will have lost earlier on.

And our neighbours won’t be able to say a thing as they will draw with Palace to end their hopes of number 19....

Oh, and we will beat Hull 2-0 to finish on 72 points.

Spragg Johnson
387 Posted 30/04/2014 at 19:51:57
Colin... That's beautiful! As long as we lose to City I'll be over the (blue) moon. Yours is the dream scenario. The nightmare scenario is indeed Stevie G's parade and every bloody footie shows opening titles showing that crease-headed tit lifting the trophy ... Aaaaaaarrrrggggghhhhhh!!

Don't cock this up, lads ... 4th is gone ... NO TITLE FOR THE SHITE must now be the priority.

Ian Dickson
388 Posted 30/04/2014 at 19:58:11
Having read all 300+ comments on this topic, to anyone taking the moral high ground by always wanting us to win no matter what Mike Hughes has it spot on.

It's not just the real immediate prospect of basically handing them the title but, more importantly, it's the disadvantage to Everton by them winning... in all aspects ie, publicity, investment, media ignoring us even more, bragging, media love-ins, always in their shadow etc etc.

Sometimes, just occasionally, we have to look at the big picture of things...

Si Cooper
389 Posted 30/04/2014 at 20:16:21
If anyone who is desperate for us to lose on Saturday does go to the game (as is their right) remember not to sing the line, "We don't care what the Red-shite say, what the fuck do we care!"
Mike Hughes
390 Posted 30/04/2014 at 20:25:19
That's complete bollocks.

We don't care what they say because they're a bunch of gobshites.

We care that they don't do well on the pitch as that is highly damaging to EFC when the Premier League title is at stake. (See above thread for details.)

Jim Lloyd
391 Posted 30/04/2014 at 20:27:50
I'll be singing that line if we lose.
Jim Lloyd
392 Posted 30/04/2014 at 20:36:59
Another bloody witchfinder telling us what to do!
Mike Hughes
393 Posted 30/04/2014 at 20:36:16
Colin #385

I'd take that.

Mind you, part of me wants the rs to finish second on goal difference (of 1), therefore magnifying Stevie Me's highly amusing error against Chelski.

Memories of that night (was it '89?) when they lost 0-2 at Anfield to Arsenal. I was in a b&b in the Republic of Ireland and they almost called an exorcist given my cackling, demonic laughter when the final whistle went.

Mike Hughes
394 Posted 30/04/2014 at 20:42:55
Terence #363

I don't know what you are on but that was a strange post.

It seems you've interpreted some fans wanting us to lose the Man City game as the board / management / players conspiring to throw the game? Then, in the completely non-existent scenario of EFC throwing the match, they announce it to the media.

Quite a leap that one. I haven't seen anyone seriously suggesting throwing the game - that would damage EFC as much as the RS winning the Premier League.

Completely ludicrous.

(I'd love to know just how many of those fans with the "get behind the team" message actually give dog's abuse to the likes of Osman every week.)

Conn Prosser
395 Posted 30/04/2014 at 20:40:10
"We don't care what the red side say..."

If only that were true. It does my head right in that even our club song is about another club.

So to all the Everton fans who will be happy to roll over for Man City in the hopes that it might help possibly prevent another club from maybe winning the league, may I remind you that your obligation at all times is to Everton and that Everton winning is more important to you than any other club winning or losing anything. It is in your contract. You don't care what they say.

May I also remind you that the stakes for Everton are anything between the glory of 4th and the ignomy of 7th-ish.

Your skin should be thick enough now to withstand anything that happens to any other team, even our neighbours winning the league.

So come on you (navy) blues, give us the show that we only know!

Si Cooper
396 Posted 30/04/2014 at 21:00:14
Mike Hughes, please explain how the RS winning the title damages EFC?

The only thing at risk if we beat Citeh and the RS capitalise and win the league is abunch of incredibly fragile egos who are apparently going to take the spite and venom from a bunch of gobshites to heart.

In case you haven't noticed they are going to finish ahead of us in the league anyway and that is enough for all the frustration of the last two years to be unleashed. It will take them all of two minutes to get over their disappointment at missing out on the league as (as far as they are concerned) they will be better placed to win it next year.

What damages us is getting beaten by Citeh and then losing to Hull because we run the risk of dropping places and missing out on a European competition that could give us greatly needed exposure and revenue.

Brent Stephens
397 Posted 30/04/2014 at 21:08:18
Mike, I think Terence is simply saying that for the fans to talk about wanting to lose is as unreal as if the chairman, manager and players said the same thing.
Brent Stephens
398 Posted 30/04/2014 at 21:12:43
Let's just all shout COYB at the game on Saturday. Safe enough, and guaranteed satisfaction.
Tamhas Woods
399 Posted 30/04/2014 at 21:18:22
For the record, I think that it may not be as cut and dried as people think, even if

When I compare Liverpool's form to Newcastle's, I think Liverpool could easily put 8 or 9 past the Geordies in Game 38.

Nightmare situation:
- Spurs scrape a win against West Ham in typical fashion
- A last minute goal against Sunderland from badge kisser
- We lose 1-0 or draw
- Man Utd win at Soton
- Spurs thrash Villa
- Hull beat us 1-0 with a last minute Jela goal
- Liverpool break Utd's record for most goals in a Prem game and win on GD given City's inferior firepower

Is that likely to happen? No, but it's sure as hell not impossible!

Barry Thompson
400 Posted 30/04/2014 at 21:16:14
"Incredibly fragile egos" fuck me stiff.
It will take them a hell of a lot longer than two minutes to get over blowing the league
Jim Lloyd
401 Posted 30/04/2014 at 21:22:19
Dearie me! Mike. You've been given detention.
Colin Glassar
402 Posted 30/04/2014 at 21:20:56
Slightly off topic but, Athletico Madrid are showing the world just what you can you achieve with a small, low cost (quality) squad and a fantastic manager. I think their first team squad cost even less than ours.
Mike Hughes
403 Posted 30/04/2014 at 21:29:24
Si #394

"please explain how the RS winning the title damages EFC?"

We're on post 400-something on this thread and a few of them were posted by me. No offence but I can't be arsed repeating previous posts. You're not alone in not getting it.

Colin Glassar
404 Posted 30/04/2014 at 21:42:27
Tamhas, that is just cruel mate. What a mind you have.
Mike Hughes
405 Posted 30/04/2014 at 21:59:52
Brent #395 - you are correct. However, I'm going to do what the rs do and blame someone else - in this case whoever it was who taught me to speed read. I didn't read most of Terence's post properly.

Jim #399 - I know! The differing views on here make me think it's going to be a funny old atmosphere at GP on Saturday.

Mike Price
406 Posted 30/04/2014 at 21:13:01
Si Cooper... Apart from the hideous gloating and misplaced arrogance from low life gobshites all over the world there's also a very real financial impact.

If they won it it would project them forward like 2005 did. It would raise their profile even higher, increase revenue streams and attract and retain better players. They would become a major player again, but if City or Chelsea won it, nothing would change for us relative to them.

So, apart from the very obvious emotional and logical reasons as a blue to despise everything about them, there are clear football business reasons too.

John Hughes
407 Posted 30/04/2014 at 22:44:26
Conn 395 - royal blue, surely? As in royal blue jerseys and the royal blue Mersey.
Ste Traverse
408 Posted 30/04/2014 at 22:47:18
I can see it from both sides. The 'fuck them,we're Everton we play to win' and the 'anyone but them' camp.

However, reading through many posts, it DOES seem quite a few are completely terrified/paranoid of getting shit off their fans if they happen to win it.

Fucking hell, we've been getting shit off them for god knows how many years no matter if they are winning things or not, it's all water off a ducks back for me.

Personally I'll be doing what I always do when they win anything...ignore it totally.

It would rile the element of our support who are obsessed with them, not me though.

Brian Denton
409 Posted 30/04/2014 at 23:12:10
Mike (403) I can appreciate your frustration. The business detriment to Everton of rs winning the title has been highlighted in plenty of posts on this thread. So it's a bit annoying when somebody asks what harm it would do to Everton three hundred posts in.

Mind you, somebody on the Monday football thread ie two days ago, asked if anybody had any thoughts on the fact that we could help Liverpool by beating City. Like, duh.......

Mike Hughes
410 Posted 30/04/2014 at 23:16:31
I couldn't care less about "the shit off their fans".
They'll get it right back off me.

What I do care about is the damage to EFC that a rs Premier League win will do.

Some people just can't see the big picture.

They want to win the small battle but lose the war.

Jim Lloyd
411 Posted 30/04/2014 at 23:13:15
I think you miss the point Ste. At least the point of a fan not wanting to win this match. It's nothing to do paranoia or getting shit off their fans. We will get shit off their fans if we lose, we will get if they win the title.

The real point is not a few paranoid fans. It is the fact that we will see that club take off again on a massive wave of media frenzy and fanfares. I couldn't give a Tinkers toss about what the fans of that club say about us. I would, however, be aghast to see another bloody Coronation.

It is not, again, NOT about them, it is about that fucking club.

Dave Williams
412 Posted 30/04/2014 at 23:04:03
I have been fascinated with this thread and the views expressed but for gods sake chaps grow a pair!!

Ste is absolutely right - we have been taking stick from their fans for years and having gone to school on Merseyside I well remember having to go in on a Monday after losing to them and having to put up with their comments but at the end of the day it is words and they can't hurt us!

Who the hell cares if they manage to win and do a bit of crowing?I hate them having been an avid blue since 1963 and having had to suffer their success for far too long but would I ever want my beloved blues to lose ANY game??

Absolutely no way - we know we are a better club.a nicer club and our future is looking good.Don't bother your heads about that shower but always want the best for our club and our team.What will you do on Saturday if we take the lead - put your heads in hands and groan,or cheer with that rush of adrenalin we all get when the ball hits the net?What if City score - will you jump up and down and cheer with pleasure?

Man up and follow Ste's lead on this - he is right!!

Ant Dwyer
413 Posted 30/04/2014 at 23:26:38
I reckon I speak for every honest blue when I say Everton will break my heart if we beat Man City! We will be handing the league to our bitter patronising rivals who will rub our noses in it until the day we die and then rub the noses of our children in it until the day they snuff it too!!!

We have ballsed up a top 4 finish so what difference does it make? Man City need a nice comfortable win to help me sleep soundly at night.

I am away at the weekend for a stag with a gang of lads, most of which are reds, and Id love for us to be able to laugh as they support our beloved Blues for once whilst begging for a favour only to be let down. Call it sick but Id love to see Stevie G cry again. ;-)

Mike Hughes
414 Posted 30/04/2014 at 23:23:27
Brian #409

I didn't see that but would have needed a large brandy to ease the pain if I had!

I'm not going to contribute to this thread beyond today.

I'm giving the match a miss and think I'll walk up a big hill in Wales or somewhere when the match is on. I'll just look at the score when I get in. My nerves can't take this.

I'm hoping for the best for EFC. In my view that is we lose to City - enabling them to win the Prem. We beat Hull providing a platform to greater and greater success for EFC.

At the risk of being accused of being "obsessed", the rs peak at 2nd and then they tailspin into oblivion.

Mike Hughes
415 Posted 30/04/2014 at 23:33:10
..... I said #413 was my last post on this thread but just seen Dave Williams' post.

It's not about the crowing, Dave. Who cares about that? It's about ......

...... no, I can't be arsed.

Ste Traverse
416 Posted 30/04/2014 at 23:28:30
They won the CL not too long ago (a bigger comp than the Premier League) and we've managed to finish above them 3 times since then so I don't buy into this 'damage to us' if they win the Prem.

No one likes it, but the bottom line is they are streets ahead of us anyway in terms of money, fanbase, profile etc.

Jim Lloyd
417 Posted 30/04/2014 at 23:33:14
Oh well then Dave, Youve judged in a sort of Olympian pronouncement that all discusion is useless. Well. in fact it probably is. It's like talking to a wall. It is not about them crowing, or if it is, it is a very poor second to what would happen to that club and more importantly, what would happen to ours.

Us poor deluded, untesticled, un men, have had the temerity to say what we feel about damage this could do to our club . We have had all the way through this thread, people pontificating about others reasons for approaching this match in particular.

We don't need to "Man Up" (what a stupid bloody Americanism is that|) We've said what we have said because (nope, I'm wrong, I can't speak for others) I've said what I've said because I believe it is in our best interests.

Man down!

Mike Hughes
418 Posted 30/04/2014 at 23:43:12
"No one likes it, but the bottom line is they are streets ahead of us anyway in terms of money, fanbase, profile etc."


(I'm off to bed and off this thread before the men in white coats are called.)

'kin hell.

Kevin Tully
419 Posted 30/04/2014 at 23:52:26
Best TWeb thread in a long while. Just shows how much a daft game is a big part of people's lives. You can't help getting caught up in the passion of it all and the permutations.

The missus came home tonight after doing a bit of shopping and said ' I can't get away from the football, I overheard two guys stacking the shelves having a right go at each other.'


Scott Williams
420 Posted 30/04/2014 at 23:45:57
Right. I am Blue, through and through. So convinced, in fact, I reckon my heart is in the shape of the crest we proudly wear on our shirts in the stands.

>And yes it is a bit if a blow that it’s the RS! Not because of their club, their apparent god Stephanie G that could do no wrong. Or even that bucked toothed, diving, Hannibal Lector wannabe that scores their goals. It’s their bloody supporters.

My family is 50/50 but I was born a Blue, like my dad! I don’t get up to merseyside as often as I would like as I am in the navy and based down south. Every red I have come across down here in the last 4 weeks I’d say, have thought it’s been sewn up for them and now it’s great watching them squirm. Because at the end of the day red fans are bloody intolerable! Fact! I would like to see them fail.

But I think it would be good for the league if someone other than bloody Manure, City or Chelsea won it. Especially as it proves that success comes with the money. And yes I know that Liverpool have spent a considerable amount. But nowhere near as much as those two. Even Dani Alves is quoted saying "I didn’t realise until about five years ago that Manchester had two teams". So I would rather the RS won as it’s best for the league.

But in reality. I just want Everton to finish as best as they can. Get fourth if the meerkat lookalikes Gunners slip up at all. They are due a loss. If not, claim fifth. Win the Europa League, which we have a good enough team for, and qualify for CL that way. COYB. Everton to win!

Steavey Buckley
421 Posted 01/05/2014 at 00:14:51
I am afraid half the Everton support maybe going towards Man City to stop Liverpool from winning the league. Shame really. It's Everton's last home game of the season.
Si Cooper
422 Posted 01/05/2014 at 00:20:34
"Si Cooper... Apart from the hideous gloating and misplaced arrogance from low life gobshites all over the world there's also a very real financial impact.
If they won it it would project them forward like 2005 did. It would raise their profile even higher, increase revenue streams and attract and retain better players."

That explains how it benefits them but not how it damages us. We don't compete with them as it is anyway so it won't significantly affect us. They haven't won the title since 1989 so it should be obvious to everyone that the only really important thing is qualifying for the Champions League, which they will do anyway.

So they have already done enough to retain their star player, can attract more top players, and will also have more money and a higher profile when they are playing in Europe. Winning the title would only marginally increase these factors in practical terms, whereas for us dropping out the European places could remove any real pressure on our Board to invest in players.

I ask the question again (and hope for a better answer) - how does our winning on Saturday damage EFC?

Spragg Johnson
423 Posted 01/05/2014 at 00:46:45
No shame, Steavey... Most of us appreciate how much the other side have done to try to stuff us since the 70s. Of course the players and staff will give it the old "We're out to win it" ... But I really hope we play like we did against Southampton. Yes, it's an unfortunate way to end our home games ... But the alternative is too horrific to contemplate.

COYSB (the S is for 'Sky' obviously).

Ciaran Duff
424 Posted 01/05/2014 at 00:54:05
Ok, after a lot of mental torture, I personally have come to this place:

Whatever the result on Saturday, there will be a positive spin for us you can't say that very often can you?

Win We secure 5th spot, Europa League football, and a fantastic season.
Draw We secure 6th spot, finish ahead of Man Utd and guarantee European football.
Lose - We "assist" City's push for EPL and hopefully dent RS's chances. We still have the last game to secure 6th (maybe 5th depending on Spurs result).

So, sit back and relax and sing "Que Sera, Sera"...

Si Cooper
425 Posted 01/05/2014 at 00:55:44
I will spell it out for Mike Hughes and Brian Denton (the back-slapping dudes who 'get it').

They win the title and we will finish 5th they get lots of good stuff but we get more good stuff than we have now because we have raised our profile and are competing in Europe.

They come second and we finish 7th they still get 99% of the good stuff because the media love them already, but we get nothing except further disappointment and a 'chokers' tag.

I am afraid I trust my 'figures' more than yours, gents, which is why I don't believe we are automatically better off losing on Saturday.

Mike Hughes
426 Posted 01/05/2014 at 00:42:41

To change the subject, I live on a street where there are only 2 houses. My house is a nice three-bed semi-detached, just like my neighbour's house. The houses were both priced at 100k.

Then he won the lottery and I didn't.

We are both the same two houses on the street but he's extended his house to six bedrooms and has a conservatory, a carp pond, and a landscaped garden. He also can afford to pay someone to mow his lawn every week so it looks like a snooker table. Mine's got some dog shit on it but still......

Then he won another lottery.... Jammy get.

I just can't understand why everyone stops to look at his house. Film stars, investors ...

No worries I can still have a brew while watching Coronation Street if I turn the volume up to hide the sound of his regular parties. It's what I've always enjoyed ... So what's the difference?

...... No I can't be arsed with this....

Colin Gee
427 Posted 01/05/2014 at 01:11:02
I don't want that lot across the park to win a raffle, never mind the League Title.

If we can stop them from winning the League Title by losing to Man City on Saturday, is that really so bad?

Si Cooper
428 Posted 01/05/2014 at 01:18:55
Mike - they have already won the lottery; the title is just the icing on the cake (or the duck-house on the lake).

At the same time you are happy for us to risk losing a lesser prize that could still pay for 'important renovations'.

It really doesn't make sense to me, unless you are happy to live in a shack while your neighbour continues to improve his pad (but has to get slightly cheaper slate for his roof).

Mike Hughes
429 Posted 01/05/2014 at 07:09:22
I'm sectioning myself from this thread.
Just off to get some extra padding for the walls of my cell.

Paul Andrews
430 Posted 01/05/2014 at 07:51:14
They placed a recruitment advertisement last week asking for stewards for "The Victory Parade".

I sincerely hope we get beat on Saturday.

Matty Dawkins
431 Posted 01/05/2014 at 08:20:16
Si, so if West Ham beat Spurs at dinner time on Saturday (meaning we are guaranteed Europe) and the ’risk’ has gone?????
David Stewart
432 Posted 01/05/2014 at 07:55:00
Sorry for joining the thread late but here goes... As soon as this thread got going I thought to myself, how long before .the "better to lose the battle but win the war" analogy appeared? Well it took a while but we finally got there in #410.

Sorry to disappoint some people but war is a place where men lay on battlefields dying, calling out for their mothers as life slowly fades away. The other one is a game where men (including me) jump up and down and pull stupid faces depending on if they win or lose now weve got that sorted out.

Come Saturday, it seems like theres gonna be three camps of Blues watching the match: those who want Everton to win regardless of the league outcome; those who would like Everton to win.... but, if they lose, theyll have a wry smile on their faces; and the last group who actively want the boys to get beat.

Well, I belong in the first group; must be careful who I say that to though... I dont want to sound all righteous, especially with the abundance of fragile egos on this thread. You could even say I could slip into the second group but never, ever into the third... Damn, there I go again, being all holier than thou...

Nope, come Saturday, Ill be hoping we thump Man City because Im on the Bobby Train, this train I believe is going to take me places I havent been for a long long time. See, if we beat City and there is still a chance of 4th, a slim chance but still a chance, if The Arse get beat or even draw then the last game of the season will test your drinking prowess.

So, if Liverpool win the league, yes accept a barrage of abuse, media fawning, and God knows what big fuckin deal. I Lived in Liverpool in the '60s, '70s and '80s when the fuckers won everything and I can safely say all the Blues I knew didnt give a fuck. We are EVERTONIANS it doesnt matter how good or bad we do, no kopite will ever be able to lace my boots.

That fucks their heads up more than anything,they think we should have folded years ago,yet here we are MILLIONS of us still here,amused by their antics, as Mr Labone said "One Evertonian is worth 50,000 kopite wools" or something like that.
So come saturday I hope we can all cheer the boys on,dream that 4th is still on,jump aboard Bobbys train and never ever worry what some non-match going,woolyback,plastic flag waving GLEE auditionee kopite says-WE ARE EVERTONIANS-BORN, NOT MANUFACTURED.

Paul Andrews
433 Posted 01/05/2014 at 08:47:00
Jim Lloyd,

"Man up" is a stupid American phrase. Usually used by men who are the least confrontational in everyday life, in my experience.

Peter Howard
434 Posted 01/05/2014 at 09:34:26
PI feel an Inspector Grim coming on with your:

"Namby-pamby, hoity-toity, blues and reds together, we need Europe, it will be good for the City, we owe it to the game, its over 38 games anyway, Ive got family who are reds,everyone will think us small-time, who cares if Liverpool win it Im a blue not a red, the players need to be professional, I dont live in the City so I dont understand the hatred..." SHITE!

There, I feel better now!

Frank Key
435 Posted 01/05/2014 at 09:26:03
It makes fascinating reading this thread.

I have lived away from Liverpool for ten years now, but my dislike for all things red has not subsided in the slightest. Each to their own and all that, but I find it staggering that some Everton fans would object to us dropping one irrelevant place to stop those insufferable gobshites winning the league.

I am not even safe from their bullshit here in Dubai. I had Standard Chartered contact me offering a free Liverpool shirt in celebration of their valiant title tilt if I opened up a savings account with them!!

The way Rodgers goes on you would think he took over Jossy’s Giants. The prick has spent nearly 100m and inherited the best striker in the world!

I live away from Liverpool now, but the mere thought of Suarez biting his medal in comedy fashion and Rodgers and his minging tart lapping up the applause on the victory bus leaves me cold. Bitter? Absolutely. I would rather watch a rerun of the royal wedding in its entirety with Sue Boyle sat on my chopper than having to go through the unthinkable.

We shouldn’t be debating whether we want City to win, rather the tactics we adopt to minimise the risk of us winning. A formation similar to the Palace game should see us right. We obviously want our players to try as hard as they possibly can, but ensure their valiant efforts are constrained sufficiently by the formation.

Terence Leong
436 Posted 01/05/2014 at 10:29:22
To those who hope that we lose to Man City, so that we can rub it in...

Consider how that could also cause us to lose 5th place in the final reckoning. To lose precious prize money for the club, and possibly a chance to compete in Europe (assuming both Spurs and Man Utd overtake us), just because we want the Reds not to possibly win the title...

I cant see how that is good for the club, or how that makes us fans who wants Nil Satis Nisi Optimum for the club.

Steve Jones
437 Posted 01/05/2014 at 10:30:34
Ciaran has this nailed in #423. There's no way we lose out of this weekend...we can sit back and see positives from any outcome...how rare is that?. Lets just enjoy that for what it is.

As has been noted at the start of the thread if we do get that win, and I think its in us to grab it, and the RS start gobbing off about their first title in decades, for the rest of time, we get to have a little grin and say "yeah...but we gave it you". I can only speak from personal experience, my kid brothers a red, and he's hating the fact that they might only get the title if we deliver it for them.

Terence Leong
438 Posted 01/05/2014 at 10:45:11
Another way I thought we can gain perspective is this:

I want the team to win, and I will have no problems cheering on at Goodison, shouting myself hoarse, hoist any banners to cheer them on.

If you are of the persuasion that you want the team to lose, I am wondering if you see yourself doing the following at Goodison, shouting yourself hoarse to ask the team to lose, give away cheap goals and unfurl a banner saying "COYB! Lose the game tonite! Lets be having yer"

If that sounds incredulous/ ridiculous/embarrassing (bearing in mind the game is also broadcast to millions worldwide), then it probably is.

Spragg Johnson
439 Posted 01/05/2014 at 11:20:07
No way we can lose? If we beat City and the unmentionables go on to win the title ... That's a pretty bloody huge loss in my books.
Jesus wept, why can't people see this???
Steve Jones
440 Posted 01/05/2014 at 11:24:16
Spragg likely because its, put kindly, a bizarre view. The difference between Liverpool winning the title and finishing 2nd...commercially...is academic. Prize money wise its a drop in the ocean to them...revenue wise they'll have Champions League group stages and a significant international following either way.

Perhaps a few Nigerians will desert Man Utd or Chelsea to be 'lifelong' RS fans....until they decide to be lifelong Real fans a few weeks later. It means nothing apart from local bragging rights....and they don't have those because we had to give them their title and they'll never get away from that.

Andrew Hawes
441 Posted 01/05/2014 at 11:39:11
I think the "if Everton win, Liverpool win the league"
Dilemma depends on every fans own circumstances.

Some don't have much interaction with Liverpool fans on a day-to-day basis so aren't too bothered who wins the league. Others like myself are surrounded by them daily, especially in the workplace. Listening to the smug arrogance that they spout along with the contempt they have for our club leads me to think that I would prefer to drag my ballbag a mile over broken glass than to watch Gerrard lift that trophy.

It doesn't really matter about 5th or 6th place this season. Every Evertonian wanted Champions League and the alternatives are basically shit no matter what way you look at it.

"Everton couldn't fill a new stadium; you don't want Champions League, it would be too expensive; Barry and Lakaku will want to play for the big sides in Europe next season " etc etc etc ...

This from a shower of shite that's finished below us for two years... And probably only has Gerrard in the team who last played a Champions League game for Liverpool!!

Sorry but Man City for me on Saturday!!

Colin Malone
442 Posted 01/05/2014 at 12:18:41
I agree Sam. Oops, why has my nose suddenly got longer and longer?
Tony J Williams
443 Posted 01/05/2014 at 12:17:56

A) if we lose against Citteh on Saturday and then win against Hull, we won't move up or down from where we are anyway.

B) If we win on Saturday and then against Hull...we won't move up or down from where we are anyway (probably unless Arsenal don't actually turn up for their remaining two matches)

C) If we draw on Saturday then win against Hull we won't move up or down from where we are anyway

D) If we draw on Saturday and draw/lose against Hull we may fall down the table.

I don't mind A but B & C could give them hairy ball bags the title so I don't want that and if it's D, we don't deserve to be in Europe anyway.

Tony J Williams
445 Posted 01/05/2014 at 12:28:12
What I meant to say is that our qualification is not down to just our game against Citteh
Pete Bridson
446 Posted 01/05/2014 at 12:35:34
Derek Thomas 234. Spot on mate!
Andrew Presly
447 Posted 01/05/2014 at 13:14:50
Throw this one and get at least a point vs pre-Cup final Hull, or if the players want 5th as much as they say they do, beat Hull and whatever Spurs do we'll finish above them on GD.

Throwing this match is morally right!

Alan Polak
448 Posted 01/05/2014 at 13:13:23
I've been watching Everton play regularly since we won the league in 1963-64. There is no dilemna on Saturday. I want us to lose. Any other result will gift the title to the RS.

The Champions League is a 100-1 shot. We may already have qualified for the Europa League before the game if Spurs lose or Man Utd draw but, even if they don't, we only need a point at Hull to qualify. We have nothing to gain if we win or draw, whereas if we lose, Man City will almost certainly win the title given their two remaining easy home games. So, the RS would have another false dawn and Gerrard will always be remembered as the man who lost them the title. Perfect! I don't want us to throw the game just to play well and lose.

Robert Workman
449 Posted 01/05/2014 at 13:28:24
Picture the scene - a pub somewhere on Merseyside.
5.27pm on saturday. The teams are coming out. Its "live" on TV.
There are a mixture of Evertonians and redshites in the pub.
As the players emerge the redshites try and fail abysmally to sing "Its a Grand Old Team".
The Evertonians whistle, ever so softly, the theme from Z-Cars..................
Martin Kulkarni
450 Posted 01/05/2014 at 13:25:50
An excerpt from the Martinez piece on the BBC Football site;

"I always felt the relationship between the two clubs [Everton and Liverpool] in the city has had incredible chapters and this would be another fascinating chapter."

Which as we all know, is a neutral romantic's view. I don't even think he is being tactful. I actually think that's how he see things between the clubs.

We long time sufferers know that this 'relationship' actually means being done over and treated like shit by that scum and their sycophants in the media and the football governing bodies at every opportunity.

He also says;

"There is no doubt of our integrity we want to win every game we go into."

Wouldn't it be great if he followed it with..."unlike their integrity" la versus Chelsea to deny Man Utd the title! Nothing said at the time, but we knew.

Just watch the reaction and comment if we lose and lose heavily to Man City.

Fucking hypocrites.

Brian Hill
451 Posted 01/05/2014 at 14:12:28
Have a look at this if you can


especially the second last paragraph. they disgust me.

Tony Devine
452 Posted 01/05/2014 at 14:02:09
Are there any ToffeeWebers out there who want City to win and are going to the game?

I would love the redshite season to be defined by Gerrards "Bambi" moment. Therefore I wont be upset if Everton lose but still proud if Everton give it a proper go and win.

I couldnt go to the game and actively support City. I would suggest anyone thinking of doing so would be better applauding the Everton team as they get off the bus for giving us some of the best football we have seen for a while and then giving your ticket to a City fan if you can find one without a ticket.

Kopites are indeed Gobshites

Iain Johnston
453 Posted 01/05/2014 at 13:50:09
What total bollox... To play poorly to stop the RS winning the league we might as well take a fucking bribe... To not go out to win...? What are you going to do cheer if Silva scores...?

I suppose you don't care where we finish as long as we beat the RS... Sad.

Get a fucking grip, the RS win the league, so what...?

After all the shit we've been through for nearly 25 years, there are fans actually condoning a defeat to help a rival...

So, say it happens and Arsenal lose their last two games and we would have finished fourth, you'll be on here saying "shit if only we'd beaten City"

I thought we were moving on from the Moyes mediocre glass ceiling bullshit brainwashing capitulation ideas... I hope you are all sharpening your new shiny knives ready for the next gunfight.

Si Cooper
454 Posted 01/05/2014 at 14:33:31
TJW - you have missed the lose to City / lose to Hull scenario which becomes much more likely if the players decide that Saturday's game is not one they want to win (some are suggesting they should be on-board with that or risk becoming pariahs if they get a result against City).

Dropping one place does have consequences as it guarantees less prize money and means an extra qualifying round before the Europa League proper. As that potentially damages next season for us why would it not bother me?

Dropping two places pretty much undoes all the good work done this season and makes us less likely to have investment in players and a reduced ability to attract them.

Malcolm Joyner
455 Posted 01/05/2014 at 14:38:48
Totally agree with you, Iain!

I have been defending my contention that we should go all out for a win against Man City when it is the holders of the opposing view who should feel guilty.

One thing we can all be sure of is that none of our players will be giving less that 100% in the cause and anyone who is praying for anything else has very confused priorities indeed.

Si Cooper
456 Posted 01/05/2014 at 14:45:18
The difference between the title and second or third is minmal for the RS. I don't know one who really expected them to be in with a shout for it at the start of the season so they will all be chuffed (eventually) with their season even if some of the gloss is removed. Any disappointment they feel will soon be turned into derision for us and the points gap between us will give them all the ammunition they need.

Financially and profile wise they are back at the top of the tree and the media will probably have them installed as favourites for next season no matter what.

The best (only) way to minimise the damage and the gap between us is for us to get into Europe and do well, and that is not best served by losing to City.

Stephen Rose
457 Posted 01/05/2014 at 14:48:27
Come on lads get a grip. We don't want the RS to be Champions. So come on, City, please if only for.

1) Clive Thomas;

2) Alan Hansen's handball;

3) Emlyn Hughes;

4) Heysel;

5) The coffin the RS had at Villa Park;

6) Running on the Wembley pitch immediately after Hillsborough;

7) the Bucharest banner on Sunday;

8) Michael Owen on BT Sport;

9) Clattenberg

10) Stevie Me's and Rafa's 'little club' taunts.

So come on, Blues... cheer us on but hope City win. Fuckin kopites... I hate 'em.

Steve Jones
458 Posted 01/05/2014 at 15:15:55
Andrew #440 Entirely up to you mate, but, I'm having all sorts of fun with RS fans at the moment. I'll be laughing my head off if Gerrard lifts that cup knowing he's only there because of us. Without us they are nothing as it has been since they were scraped together. If you want something to throw back at them Andrew that one always works!.

More than we don't want the RS to be champions we don't want to have to go to Hull needing a point to ensure we get a European reward for this seasons efforts.

Patrick Murphy
459 Posted 01/05/2014 at 15:22:44
Thanks for that link, Brian Yet another reminder of how they view our club, in reply to his question as to whether Roberto can get Everton into Europe he says, "Well he has already got one small club into Europe when he guided Wigan to FA Cup success last season, so who's to say he cannot do it again?"

Despite his arrogance, I will be at Goodison on Saturday looking for an Everton win. Let the other lot shoot themselves in the foot as that will give me greater pleasure than Everton losing and them lot still taking the League.

Chris Thornton
460 Posted 01/05/2014 at 16:08:40
I think Saturday's game could be a great match, with both sets of players desperate to win. And for once in my life I won't be too bothered if we lose. If we beat City I'll be thrilled, because it will demonstrate how much we've progressed. If we lose (and I think we'll win) I'll still be happy if it helps to stop Liverpool winning the title. So I'm just going to enjoy it, with, I admit, a slight leaning in favour of a City win. Incidentally, if Liverpool and City were both in danger of relegation and if losing to City would relegate Liverpool, how many of you who say they never want Everton to lose would change their minds?
Linda Morrison
461 Posted 01/05/2014 at 16:27:21
Folks, we only need 1 point and Man Utd cant finish above us even if they win all their games, which they wont, even with the Class of 92 in the dug out.

I see Rooney is putting his tuppence in already he wants Giggs not the Dutch chap as he doesnt like his strict methods.

I bet Baines is thanking his lucky stars every day he didnt go to MU.

If Liverpool win they win it will be a one-off.

Tony J Williams
462 Posted 01/05/2014 at 17:21:13
Didn't miss it Si, I said if they lost both they didn't deserve to be in Europe
Brian Denton
463 Posted 01/05/2014 at 17:34:18
Alan Polak #447 "I've been watching Everton play regularly since we won the league in 1963-64"

Erm.....you might care to check out who won the League in 1963-64. Though for quiz buffs, there was something very unusual about that season in both English and Scottish First Divisions. Answers on a postcard.

Brian Denton
464 Posted 01/05/2014 at 17:45:55
Oops sorry, quiz question refers to season 64-65. 1963-64 is particularly relevant to this thread though!
Phil Sammon
465 Posted 01/05/2014 at 17:47:29

I don't think we owe it to the league or anyone else for that matter. We should just want to win any game we play in. If that hands the title to them lousy red bastards then I'm afraid it's just the way the cookie crumbles.

I'm still hopeful of 'Option C' where we win our last two games, come fourth and Liverpool lose their remaining games and the title.

Kevin Tully
466 Posted 01/05/2014 at 18:16:56
I started the week off by wanting us to lose to City, so ’they’ won feck all. Now the weekend is nearly here I’m afraid I just can’t be inside Goodison wanting us to get beat.

We should now be aiming for 75 points, 5th as a minimum and a great finish to the season. I want the lads to go out with all guns blazing and another victory against a top side.

If we do end up with a defeat, I won’t be as upset as usual - fair enough?

Brent Stephens
467 Posted 01/05/2014 at 18:23:36
For jeez sake, will people stop talking about whether or not Everton should "roll over" on Saturday. We can reasonably discuss whether or not we’d want it, but there’s no way on earth anybody on the staff at Everton is going to act in "roll over" mode.

Yair Kaye
468 Posted 01/05/2014 at 17:59:47
When I read some of the comments of obsessive idealist "do-gooders" who maintain that it’s not our business who wins the title, and that it doesn’t have any influence on our great club, I can’t help suspecting that some RS supporters infiltrated this site. It’s such nonsense that I won’t even try to explain them why it was explained here already very clearly by others.

As to our final placing this season, our chances of getting 4th spot are next to nothing. No way Arsenal will not win one of their remaining 2 fixtures, both against easy opponents. That leaves us with the Europa League. In my opinion, if we cannot get into CL position, better to be out of this competition. Little money in it (unless we win it thus getting a CL ticket, but chances are very slim, almost non-existent), and it just comes in the way of a good run in the PL). Unfortunately we will be there anyway even after losing to City, and we are going to regret it next year (no chance we’ll have a big enough squad for good runs in Europa League and the PL together).

On Saturday for the first time in my life (and I hope the last), I will keep my fingers crossed for our opponents’ win.

Patrick Murphy
469 Posted 01/05/2014 at 18:56:16
Brian I can’t think of anything and even after looking at Wiki I can’t find a common or uncommon factor for the 1964-65 season.
Rob Halligan
470 Posted 01/05/2014 at 18:42:18
There has been 463 posts so far on this thread, and at the end of the day none of them really count for anything in as much as what we think or what we want.

The only people that really matter are the players that take to the field on Saturday, and as professionals they will be trying their damnest to win the game. It’s in their nature, no professional likes to lose.

I played Saturday and Sunday football for about 15 years and hated losing.

It sounds like it’s going to be a team consisting of ToffeeWebbers going to play against city on Saturday and we are going to throw the game.

So time for a bit of fun. Let’s pick a team from TW to play city and get absolutely thrashed 100-0. I played in goal when playing so baggsie I go in goal.

Anybody else fancy a game?

Brent Stephens
471 Posted 01/05/2014 at 19:32:16
I’m 5’4" so claim one of the CB spots (and I have a habit of turning my back on a shot). Actually I did play CB for a long time, despite the height. Loved a good jump.

I nominate Harold as manager - a man who normally speaks sense (but on Saturday will have to talk poo for a change).

Paul Hewitt
472 Posted 01/05/2014 at 19:33:14
Going to be strange being at Goodison on Saturday and not wanting Everton to win. Never thought I would say that but needs must.

The thought of the RS winning the league fills me with dread.
So just for once I will be hoping we lose.

Yair Kaye
473 Posted 01/05/2014 at 19:36:49
Kevin (#463)

No, not fair enough. If the RS clinch the title, it’s going to be a day of mourning for me a great tragedy, since it will have severe repercussions on our club. The RS missing out on the title is 100 times more important than us finishing with 72 points instead of 75. And we’ll be in Europe in any case (not that I think the Europa League is worth participating it will have adverse effects on our league performances and position).

Tony J Williams
474 Posted 01/05/2014 at 19:46:55
I have been saying all week that I want a City win but I know once I am in the stands I will want a Royal Blue win.
Rob Halligan
475 Posted 01/05/2014 at 19:45:59
Sorry Brent. No WAGS allowed.

We can’t be seen looking shagged out even before kick off as we prepare to lose the biggest game in the shites recent history.

What do you think the PFL will think?

Brent Stephens
476 Posted 01/05/2014 at 20:15:31
ok, Rob, no WAGS. Pros to the end.
Peter Foy
477 Posted 01/05/2014 at 16:03:47
Bitter? You bet but with just cause. If you need to ask why, then you’re probably a social worker!
Mike Hughes
478 Posted 01/05/2014 at 20:13:16
This dilemma has totally screwed me up this week. It’s occupying my mind when I wake up, drive the car, at meetings, everywhere. It’s turning me into a basket case so I’m really not looking forward to this weekend.

Despite what I’ve written on here, it doesn’t sit well with me wanting us to lose. Then again, I know what the potential alternative might be like.

I understand the differing views on here even if I don’t agree. However, I really don’t get how any Evertonian between the ages of 9 and 90 can think of the RS as anything but total and utter gobshites. Even demonising the petrodollar clubs’ big spending to ’justify’ them the title is twisted to my way of thinking. It terrifies me that such people are loose in society.

Regardless of what happens at the weekend, I hope this season:

We somehow qualify for the CL.
We finish ahead of Man Utd / Spurs.
The RS do NOT win the league. (I don’t care how as long as they don’t.)

Tony Heslop
479 Posted 01/05/2014 at 20:41:07
Brian, was that the season both Leagues were decided on goal average?

And does anyone remember 1969 when we played Leeds at Goodison near the end of the season. 59,000 there including hordes of Reds. Leeds and Liverpool close rivals for the title. I remember thinking it would be OK for us to lose this one though my Dad was having none of it. We drew 0-0 which I think helped Leeds. They were champs, Liverpool 2nd and we were 3rd and because of that ridiculous one-club, one-city rule didn’t even get into Europe. I think Newcastle, who finished 11th, did and they won the Fairs Cup the following year.

Derek Thomas
481 Posted 01/05/2014 at 20:54:33
Rob #467 I’m good for the Carsley spot or maybe at a pinch (seen as City are no great shakes) the Cahill up front.
Brent Stephens
482 Posted 01/05/2014 at 21:06:58
Derek, I think Rob will want some sort of evidence that you’re not going to be too good in either position.
Andy Meighan
483 Posted 01/05/2014 at 21:22:11
For all those saying they only care about Everton winning on Saturday and they’re not interested if Liverpool win the league, you obviously don’t live in the city... you can’t do. There’s already banners and flags up by me and it’s not over yet. Can you imagine it if they do win it. The title parade, the endless tele specials, the constant reminders of how fitting it was for Steven etc etc. No, that’s not for me I’m afraid.

I’ve been going to goodison regularly for 44 years and I’ve never ever wanted Everton to lose the toss, never mind a game. Well, I’m afraid on Saturday I do... and if that upsets anyone, I really couldn’t give a flying one. When have they ever done us a favour? Exactly.

Si Cooper
484 Posted 01/05/2014 at 21:40:24
TJW (461) - er, sorry mate but you didn’t.

You wrote "and if it’s D, we don’t deserve to be in Europe anyway." having previously written "D) If we draw on Saturday and draw/lose against Hull we may fall down the table."

Si Cooper
485 Posted 01/05/2014 at 21:44:19
Yair Kaye, before we all bow down and worship your self-appointed brilliance can you explain how the RS will be significantly materially worse off if they finish 2nd or 3rd rather than winning the title. At the moment you are simply trying to pass off a questionable opinion as undoubtable fact.

The same goes for your stance on the Europa League. It is only your opinion that it will be more trouble than it is worth. For me and a lot of others it actually represents a good opportunity for the club if handled right and your pontificating without any supportive data is not enough to change my mind about that.

Next time you give the ultimate insult to Evertonians who simply don’t share your opinion I hope you get the appropriate sanction from the site administrators.

Mark Griffiths
486 Posted 01/05/2014 at 21:28:56
Frank Key (435). Comedy gold mate! Thanks for making me laugh!
Paul Hewitt
487 Posted 01/05/2014 at 21:57:55
I really find it difficult to understand why people find it wrong wanting Everton to lose? Having lived through the ’80s and ’90s and seeing the RS win the league year after year... do we really want to go back to their smug faces and continuous gloating again?

Having been brought up with two brothers who support the RS and hearing how fantastic they’ve been this season, I just want to see their smug faces when the screw it up.

Mike Green
488 Posted 01/05/2014 at 22:15:34
Brian #451 - I wish you hadn’t posted that link - what a prize tit! :D
Brian Denton
489 Posted 01/05/2014 at 22:43:31
Tony, yes 1964-65 both First Division and Scottish First Division Titles won on goal difference. Also neither Celtic nor Rangers in the top 4 in Scotland.
Mike Hughes
490 Posted 01/05/2014 at 23:23:56
Well, well, well, well, well ......

Lawro’s predictions / telling comment:

What this City team experienced in 2012, when they beat QPR with two stoppage-time goals to win the title on goal difference, will help them this time around. I do not see them letting it slip away now.

It means bugger all but, for once, I hope he’s right.
He’s predicting City will win 0-2 and that Palace will get a draw.

Bill Gall
491 Posted 01/05/2014 at 23:05:53
For all the supporters who want Everton to loose or hope they loose or like a number of supporters will not mind if they loose as long as they play well are forgetting one thing. None of us supporters will be on the pitch on saturday it will all be up to the players who are picked to determine the result of the game.

Evertons players are profesionals under contract and with this being Mr Martinez first season they are playing for their future at the club.

Man City may be favourites with Barry missing and Evertons injury list but this is one game that I will not scream and yell at Everton players if the do not play well.

On another topic supporters who think the Europa cup is a Micky Mouse tournament---why cant English teams ca get past the quarter finals .Benfica v Sevilla looks a good final to me.

Patrick Murphy
492 Posted 02/05/2014 at 00:01:14
Bill - I notice that Mr Clattenberg was the referee in Turin. Benfica are a hell of a side. Valencia must be sick though a loan player M’bia? from Spurs scored the injury time winner. Six weeks today and the World Cup begins - a busy summer ahead.
Ciaran Duff
493 Posted 02/05/2014 at 00:01:51
After listening to Roberto, I think I have come to terms with this now.

As the song says, we don’t care what the RS say. This is about Everton.

We want to finish as high as we can and beat everyone we can (including the money bags elite). We want to show the world (and investors) how good we are. We have just started the journey with Roberto and we should not be dropping our standards, we should be raising them. Let’s finish off the season well and especially our last home game.

We’ll deal with the RS next season.

Daniel Flosi
494 Posted 02/05/2014 at 00:51:48
Can’t we just root for the RS to choke it against CP and lose it on goal difference? The old-fashioned way of wishing bad upon your rivals, I guess. Oh well, I just hope EFC secure Europe as soon as possible... THAT is what would make me happy.
Eric Myles
495 Posted 02/05/2014 at 01:47:10
Problem is Daniel #27, the RS have Clattenberg playing for them against Palace so they are bound to win contraversially.
Bill Gall
496 Posted 02/05/2014 at 02:24:53
Partick -- Only managed to catch the second half and was suprised with Clattenberg officiating but thought that he handled a fiesty game quite well .Still don’t want to see him a goodison as the referee.any time in the future.
Jermaine Jennings
497 Posted 02/05/2014 at 06:50:01
I want us to win and whatever else happens happens!!! If we lose I am not going to cry!!!!! but we need to secure 5th position which is more important and if spurs lose or draw at West Ham then fifth is secured...

Forget the RS we need to go and win the game and if we play at our best and get beat then so be it..But if we rollover without any effort, then I won’t be happy and I will be the first person to moan at RM!!!

Neil Pickering
498 Posted 02/05/2014 at 06:43:12
Make no mistake, Saturday will be the first time ever I will want us to lose a game. No way do I want those gobshites winning this league; we will never hear the end of it and although they are relatively quiet at the moment, they will be firmly rubbing our faces in it if they do it.

For me this isnt about football, its about a team that sold their soul to the devil (Suarez) in order to try and win a league under any circumstances.

I am old enough to remember the coffins with Everton badges they had ready to bring out if we lost to Wimbledon in 93-94, and I also remember them all wearing Blackburn shirts on the last day in 95. I remember the deathly silence at Anfield that greeted Redknapps free-kick in that game in the last minute when they thought they had gifted Man Utd the title, only to find that Man Utd had lost as well so it didnt matter.

So, when we get trounced on Saturday, I for one will be doing the Poznan on every City goal around my living room.

As the saying goes, they are outraged by everything and ashamed of nothing. Dont let me down, Everton...

Rob Halligan
499 Posted 02/05/2014 at 07:04:53
Bill 490. Exactly the same point I was making, see my post,469.

Everyone wanting us to lose seems to think we will lose on purpose and throw the game. That’s the impression I get anyway.

Sorry but ain’t going to happen as professional pride will kick in and our players work be trying their hardest to win. As I said its in their nature to want to win.

So sorry Brent and Derek Thomas, guess our dreams have been dashed and we will have to take our usual seat in the stands. Besides seeing as there was only 3 of us interested I think we would have well an truly got tonked!!!!!

Dick Brady
500 Posted 02/05/2014 at 08:40:03
I’d be very happy if we played extrememly well but lost in a high scoring defeat.

Ideally it would be 3-3 after 90 minutes and oh dear Man City score in injury time to fook Liverpool’s title chances. Oh dear what a shame.

I actually think we’ll take at least a point from Man City and hand the title back to Liverpool. I won’t like it but you can’t expect Roberto to tell the lads to lose on purpose.

Mike Price
501 Posted 02/05/2014 at 08:30:40
If only we were playing on Monday.... then we’d know exactly our situation regarding Arsenal and the Redshite. This is the worst-case timing scenario for the penultimate games imaginable.

That’s why we can’t chance it and had better lose... I would find it really hard to love Everton the same if our actions directly win them a first Premier League title. To be winners we have to ensure they’re losers in this situation.

The whole thing has historic potential one way or the other, and for once I want to be on the gloating side. Don’t underestimate how big this is Everton, FFS.

Mike Gwyer
502 Posted 02/05/2014 at 07:59:46

Bill Gall #490.

Too true. For me I would rather see us finish 17th than the RS win the EPL but as you say, the players will decide what emotions me and my fellow blues will feel.

However, I have it on good authority that RM will break out a BBQ, in his own coaching area, serving steak and salad butties to all out field players - it’s his way of saying thank you for a wonderful season. I’m guessing that the City players will be too busy trying putting the ball into our net rather than get a taste of that yummy cuisine. Oh, and apparently Stella’s & wine will also be available, well why not?

Also, RM’s idea of having deck chairs put around the centre spot so our players can take a seat whilst they are laughing at the replay’s of Stevie’s G’s big slip (on the corner screen) is fucking sound.

Could be a big score for City. Oh well, am I a fucking bitter - never!!!!!!

Colin Glassar
503 Posted 02/05/2014 at 08:52:22
I think all this should we, shouldnt we, talk is becoming slightly academic as I think city will just be too strong for us.
With so many players missing e.g. Mirallas, Pienaar, Barry, Distin etc....plus a half fit Jagielka I just cant see us getting anything against a totally focused, fully fit, man city team. We will try but on the day they will be too strong for us. Sorry.
Brent Stephens
504 Posted 02/05/2014 at 09:04:22
Rob #498 "So sorry Brent and Derek Thomas, guess our dreams have been dashed and we will have to take our usual seat in the stands. Besides seeing as there was only 3 of us interested I think we would have well an truly got tonked!!!!!"

Getting well and truly tonked might have been ok. But rules is rules - 3 is too few to start a game. Where are the courageous TWebbers when you need them? All talk and no action!

Sam Hoare
505 Posted 02/05/2014 at 09:08:26
Ideal results: We win, Palace beat RS, West Brom beat Arsenal, West Ham beat Spurs, Sunderland beat Utd.

Just the first two or three would do for me.

Dave Lynch
506 Posted 02/05/2014 at 09:19:21
Re the TW team.

Being 53, over the hill and having abused my body most of my life i’m nowhere near match fit.

Can I be Steve Round please. I am good at drawing stick men and looking fucking clueless.

Brent Stephens
507 Posted 02/05/2014 at 10:39:05
Dave, that means we’ve got a manager, a coach but only 3 on the pitch. We need somebody who can shout and point the finger. Anybody on TW we can think of?
Nicholas Page
508 Posted 02/05/2014 at 10:29:50
If we beat City, and that fucking shower win the Prem how long will it be until we start getting the ’Thursday night’ taunts?

7) the Bucharest banner on Sunday; I’ve seen this before and it sums them up. One of the Manc websites had a piece on it a while back (my wife is Man Utd).

Yair Kaye
509 Posted 02/05/2014 at 10:42:46
Si Cooper,

The site administrator should sanction you, not me, with your self-righteous indulgence. Who are you to preach me and all the others who don’t share your pro RS-obsession?

Since for some unknown reason you are so obsessed about our club cooperating with the RS, I will answer you once and for all:

Of course I hoped originally that I won’t be seeing the RS return to Champions League football. However, this is much less damaging and not as meaningful as long as they’ll finish 2nd or 3rd.

After all, they participated already twice (maybe even 3 times I can’t remember) in the CL since their regrettable win in 2005. Did it help them in the Premier League? Not much. Winning the PL brings much more attention, draws more investment from franchise, attracts big stars and will cause more following for the RS in and around Liverpool and also internationally.

Just participating in the CL doesn’t guarantee much. I expect the RS not to fare too well next year, as long as they don’t win the PL. They will find it hard to compete on both fronts, and (as long as they’re not winning the PL) their status inside England will not change much.

As to my stance on the Europa League how did participating in this competition advance our club interests in becoming a major force in the English PL, let alone becoming a recognized, formidable force globally?

Participation in the Europa League generates tiny sums of money compared to the CL. It’s no more that a consolation price for the teams dropping out of the CL ( and one of those dropouts usually wins the competition to get the prize of being in the CL the following year.

On the other hand, the need for a big and talented squad to compete on both fronts drains the resources of clubs with deep pockets like us. You don’t have to go far to see what happened to English clubs’ performances and standing in the PL while participating in this competition... Should I name some?

Finally, in the country where I live, I doubt whether there are more than a handful of Evertonians. I don’t think you’ll find enough of us to fill a bus. The RS have a massive following, including their own site, package deals for RS PL games etc. Most of this following originates in the seventies when those supporters were kids & identified with the most successful English club at the time.

This happened all over the world. In the past two decades, other clubs lowered the attention around the RS, like Chelsea, the Mancs etc. I dread to think what’s going to happen if the RS are ever to return to their heyday of those years. Their first step is winning the PL. This must be avoided.

Andrew Ellams
510 Posted 02/05/2014 at 11:46:42
Liverpool looked spent against Norwich and Chelsea and Gerrard was out on his feet. Not sure they have 2 games left in the legs anyway.
Mike Hughes
511 Posted 02/05/2014 at 12:15:09
Brent #506

I can shout, point the finger and am good with sound bites. I can’t pass the ball further than 5 yards and Tim Cahill would probably think I dress like a school teacher.

Can I be Phil Neville please?

# Dave #505 - very funny.

Dave Richman
512 Posted 02/05/2014 at 12:27:39
Count me in ..... I’m 52, extremely unfit, two buggered knees and a dodgy left achilles .... and, most importantly, I was shite at football even when I was young, intact and relatively fit. Centre forward please
Nicholas Page
513 Posted 02/05/2014 at 12:42:50
I hope fucking Kenwright gets a game...
Brent Stephens
514 Posted 02/05/2014 at 13:11:03
Mike #510, Dave #511 - I suggested Harold Matthews as manager but he hasn’t accepted the contract yet. So, as this is all Rob’s idea (Rob Halligan #469), I guess he gets to pick the team and hangers-on.

Nicholas #512 - I think more than a few tackles would be flying in on "the actor" from our own TW players.

"TW team to be set up permanently", reports Sky Sports. Season tickets on sale now (and new ground announcement expected this afternoon).

Colin Gee
515 Posted 02/05/2014 at 14:06:54
I’ll play up front if needed, 6-ft 3-in, with a couple of dodgy knees, got a first touch like Brett Angell and can finish as well at Stuart Barlow could.
Mike Hughes
516 Posted 02/05/2014 at 14:18:16
Brent - hopefully Harold hasn’t replied yet as he’s attending the John Barnes Management Masterclass course.
Max Wilson
517 Posted 02/05/2014 at 14:46:42
I’ve found all this a curiously sterile subject and debate.
In all the years I’ve been a Toffee we never once went to
a fixture hoping to go down, supporters or team. Even if you wish to avoid the Champions League (impressive to potential buyers) you cannot be certain of getting fifth place without trying the best you can.

This has been meant to be "a development year" if you remember. We are on the way from the Moyes years into the Martinez epoch. Allowing for that, I expect to see us all trying to win everything we can. I’m sure that’s what the manager intends. Come on, now... there’s still 6 points to be won.

Tony Cunningham
518 Posted 02/05/2014 at 14:57:53
If and only if Spurs lose and Man Utd no more than draw, then I’ll quite happily lose (preferably to a dubious goal after dominating the match, so we can look back on it as at least a good performance). 5th is most important to me, tie that up then fingers crossed on Liverpool finishing 3rd.
Brent Stephens
519 Posted 02/05/2014 at 15:13:40
Mike #515, methinks our Harold would be able to teach Barnes a thing or two.

Scott Goin
520 Posted 02/05/2014 at 15:46:25
I guess I just don’t get this at all. Do people support Everton because they love the club or is it just that they hate Liverpool? If there was ANY kind of benefit to Everton to lose against Man City, I could understand this. But losing doesn’t help us in any way. We would ruin whatever tiny chance we have to get into Champions League. We’d potentially sacrifice the 1.2 million if we dropped from 5th to 6th. Beating a strong team like Man City could give our boys the impetus to push on next year and feel more confident the next time they face a big club.

I don’t like Liverpool but rooting against Everton just to spite Liverpool seems irrational and petty. Hatred and anger is the way to the Dark Side. Don’t give in.


Brian Furey
521 Posted 02/05/2014 at 15:51:09
518 posts over 5 days and I nearly missed this thread. I was looking for somewhere to vent my feelings all week so alas I finally found ye all...

I live in Dublin and in a building of 200 employees I am the only Toffee but there are at least 6 Reds that I know of. Two of my brothers are Reds also. You wouldn’t believe how much in the past month they have been trying to lick my arse and say they really hope we get 4th place.

I knew back then that the Man City game could prove interesting but probably hoped back then Man City would be top already and us fighting for 4th. But these pathetic RS fans have been sucking up to me about 4th hoping that I have some fucking influence now to persuade Roberto to win this game and allow them to win the league. If you heard them grovelling and almost pleading with me, you would so laugh.

I am also a GAA fan and I know what it’s like when your neighbouring county beats you in a big match or they win the All Ireland title and your county lose out. So I am TOTALLY behind all ye who want us to LOSE this weekend. I am a realist first and, even though I was at the Arsenal game and loved every minute of it, I don’t think we are even close to competing in Europe yet. Yes, I know getting there encourages other good players to come or to stay with us but we gotta learn to walk before we can run.

We will beat Hull in the last game of the season cos they will be safe and in no way care about that game. Yes, Roberto will send his team out to win but the players themselves totally know what it means to themselves and the fans if they let the RS win the league, so of course they will never admit it, but I bet you Lukaku and Co will not be busting a gut on Saturday afternoon.

For all of you saying it’s a disgrace for us to be talking about this, then it’s easy for you then to be an Everton fan without Reds laughing in your face every time we play. How did you all feel after the Anfield game? Did you know any Liverpool fans after that game? They so look down their noses at us and think we’re pathetic so why the hell should we do them a favour an encourage that behaviour even more. You’re being VERY nave if you think that it doesn’t matter.

As it has been said numerous times on here, our best team in the last 50 years were denied the chance to play and maybe even win the European Cup thanks to the RS and their fans. Will we ever get the chance again? God knows. But I for one am sick of watching them winning trophies and almost feeling sorry for us.

Stand up and be counted for your team and stop being such a wet drip and a goodie two-shoes. If we win on Saturday, ye should go down your local pub on Monday night to listen to the Reds fans and what they are chanting or talking about. Then you might just change your mind.

C’mon City!!!

Danny Broderick
522 Posted 02/05/2014 at 16:07:16
COYB! Same as any other game I have ever watched Everton play.

How does the song go again? "We don’t care what the red shite say!"

Brian Furey
523 Posted 02/05/2014 at 16:46:58
So Danny. Are you saying that you will actually be happy if we beat Man city and then Liverpool win the title. Is that what you're admitting cos you don't care what the red shite say or do.
Are you gonna bury your head in the sand when they win?
Can you imagine Barcelona being happy to see Real Madrid win another title cos they only cared about their own team.
It's human nature to be competitive and want your biggest rivals to lose
It's not something to be embarrassed about or take the high moral ground.
Shane Corcoran
524 Posted 02/05/2014 at 17:05:12
Brian, are these Liverpool fans who are bizarrely grovelling the type that phone Michael "I love the Premier Leaguer" McMullen on a Saturday evening?
Nicholas Page
525 Posted 02/05/2014 at 16:48:31
Scott, its not about hatred. Its about what is perceived as fair. To me, they're a bit like a soap-nasty who's yet to be found out....after 50 odd fucking years. More Terry Barlow than Barry Grant.
Si Cooper
526 Posted 02/05/2014 at 17:18:50
Yair Kaye - you need to read what people actually write before accusing people of being pro-RS simply because they see no real benefit to OUR club from losing to City on Saturday.

You repeat your assertion that winning the title is significantly more beneficial to the RS than Champions League qualification without providing any proof to back it up. Unfortunate that I have to repeat this, but it is only your OPINION and has no greater merit than the opposing one.

The seeding the qualifying clubs get is based on previous European performances not their finishing position in their domestic competition so they get zero benefit in that regard.
There is absolutely no evidence that the RS will get more investment if they win the title rather than finishing 2nd or 3rd. United only sacked Moyes because they were dubious as to whether he could get them back into the Champions League not because he lost them the title. Arsenal have been happy for years with not spending the sums required to really challenge for the title because financially it is largely immaterial whether you finish 1st or 4th as long as you qualify for the group stages of the Champions League - it is only their fans who have become restless with the lack of silverware.

You dismiss the Europa League based on how it was set up originally and our own previous performances. You have not taken into account the following factors:

1) The competition has been improved to increase the financial rewards.
2) We have a different manager this time who is both willing and able to use his squad fully and in the most appropriate way depending on the club priorities (I would play the U21s in the early rounds of the domestic cup competitions for starters).
3) No European competition will limit the type of player we can attract in the close season.
4) Without European competition the Board will feel much less pressure to strengthen the squad, probably being satisfied to replace like with 'like' and hope it all works out as well as it has this season.
5) No European competition means no chances for rocking evening games against high profile European clubs, enabling us to promote the club further.

Putting aside the extra revenue from TV, merchandising, advertising and gate receipts, if you haven't experienced a rocking Goodison on a European night then you can have very little idea of the boost they can provide for players and fans alike.

Your 'nightmare scenario' is pure speculation prompted by paranoia fuelled by hatred, mine is based on reasonable observations that most football fans would recognise and readily accept. I am not self-righteous, I just find your argument lacking in substance and have asked you to justify it with more than conjecture.

Graham Mockford
527 Posted 02/05/2014 at 17:32:02
Well said Si #525

And I would add

6) away day piss up in foreign climes

Scott Goin
528 Posted 02/05/2014 at 17:34:05
Nicholas, if Everton had nothing to play for, I could maybe agree with you. But, however slim, we still have a chance at Champions League. Arsenal are a good team but they're more than capable of losing a match or two that they should be winning. Anything can (and often does) happen in the Premier League. Until Everton are mathematically eliminated from 4th place, I want our boys to give everything they have out there. They shouldn't stop fighting until that 4th place trophy is pried out of their cold, dead hands.


Si Cooper
529 Posted 02/05/2014 at 18:07:13
Brian Furey (520) - "I am a realist first and, even though I was at the Arsenal game and loved every minute of it, I don't think we are even close to competing in Europe yet. Yes, I know getting there encourages other good players to come or to stay with us but we gotta learn to walk before we can run.

We will beat Hull in the last game of the season cos they will be safe and in no way care about that game. Yes, Roberto will send his team out to win but the players themselves totally know what it means to themselves and the fans if they let the RS win the league, so of course they will never admit it, but I bet you Lukaku and Co will not be busting a gut on Saturday afternoon."

I too consider myself a realist Brian, but I cannot agree with a single assertion you have made in the piece of your post I have cut and pasted.

No Europe means no real pressure on the Board (which means you are effectively waiting on a billionaire to come along and change things). I would rather we take the tangible opportunity presented by the Europa League and see if we can make it work for us.

Hull will be relaxed but competitive for the reasons you have stated, Long and Jelavic (especially) are both cup-tied and will be looking to finish the season in the best possible fashion. Our players will be tense, anxious and jittery.

I can only presume you have not mixed much with elite sportsmen if you make such assumptions about their outlook, and the last I saw of the TW poll on the subject (if it can be considered representative) you are not talking for the majority of fans.

Dick Brady
530 Posted 02/05/2014 at 18:16:29
I'd love to beat Man City and finish 5th but realistically I'd take 6th and possibly even 7th if it meant Liverpool lose the title.

I seriously cannot stand even the idea of watching that gobshite Steven Gerard lift the title. Much less seeing how happy all those gloating RS supporters will be.

It's bad enough I have to hear about their brand new state-of-the-art Stadium everyday; don't think I can handle a Premier League crown too.

Jamie Barlow
531 Posted 02/05/2014 at 18:18:24
Si, don't you think Liverpool winning the league will tempt kids deciding which team to support to chose the dark side? Like someone said on another thread, a lot of kids go for glory. I'm not just talking about in Liverpool either. I mean all over the world. Surely this must have a negative effect on Everton Football Club.
Richard Farrington
532 Posted 02/05/2014 at 18:29:48
I will be making my usual 450-mile round trip tomorrow to watch the blues and for the first time I want us to lose.

My loathing for that lot is deep rooted from childhood before I moved down South, I started watching us in 1980, so imagine what it was like for them few years before we started to compete with them again. I just cannot stand the thought of them winning again, all the bullshit, the media, no way. We all know a gloating gobshite kopite, I know several, including my boss who has deliberately planned a visit to my patch the three days after the final round of games to rub my nose in it (made before the Chelsea game - I think he is having second thoughts).

Fourth is gone and to be honest, I couldn't give too hoots about the Europa League.

Call me what you like, I don't care, I will drive four hours in the morning hoping Everton lose.

Bill Gall
533 Posted 02/05/2014 at 18:31:37
Funny that with the TW poll just asking a Yes or No I guess it's for people who do not wish to write a comment; the majority are voting for a Everton not to loose...
Si Cooper
534 Posted 02/05/2014 at 18:36:41
Jamie - kids are a lot more simplistic than you make out. The majority of them will choose Liverpool over Everton because (in their memories) they tend to win the Derbies, finish higher in the league, play in high profile European games, and get more media attention. Winning the title is a relatively unimportant portion when it comes to local loyalty decisions.

Further afield it may be more of a factor, but those kids wouldn't be choosing Everton anyway so no, that doesn't damage Everton either.

Sponsors do not only invest in the title winners, as since the advent of the Champions League even the 4th placed team can end up winning the biggest club honour in Europe (the world?).

What can significantly change matters is Everton doing better in a way the kids can relate to, ie winning games that are shown on TV and that attract plaudits form the pundits.

Kevin Hudson
535 Posted 02/05/2014 at 18:42:32
My two cents..

The self-pitying wall-pushers demonstrated a complete lack of integrity (yet again) when, led by Gerrard's helpful 'back-pass,' they gift-wrapped the Premier League title to Chelsea, at Man Utd's expense, in 2010.

We are different. We will demonstrate this by approaching the game like it were the first match of the season. Our ethics are primarily to ourselves, to our heritage, reputation and to the sport itself.

We are bigger than parochial match-throwing.

Whoever wins the title, wins the title, period.

Danny Broderick
536 Posted 02/05/2014 at 18:46:21
I am pro-Everton before being anti-anyone else. I want Everton to win every game, with no exception.

While there is still a chance we can finish 4th - long shot I know - of course I want us to win. However gutted you will feel if Liverpool win the league, I will feel more gutted if Arsenal lose their next 2 games and we've given City an easy ride just to stop our rivals winning the league.

We should all focus on Everton, and the great season we have had. Even if the worst does happen, the easy response is that they couldn't win it without our help.

Si Cooper
537 Posted 02/05/2014 at 18:57:39
Jamie - do you really think Liverpool will get significantly less publicity if they fail to win the title? They have made their mark (and their impact on the local kids wavering between them and us) by slaughtering a host of teams, getting automatic CL qualification, and being right in the mix at the end of the season.

Losing (at home) to City just confirms to the masses that we are in a lower tier.

Paul Ferry
538 Posted 02/05/2014 at 19:00:58
Erm Bill Gall - 532 - your post is not too many miles away from being complacent perhaps or missing a substantial point might be better.

From your vantage point you think all is happy now because a 'majority' are voting for Everton not too lose tomorrow?

I find it amazing that 40 per cent of votes DO want Everton to lose. That's a staggering statistic for me at any rate.

The sort of comfortable tone in your post is quite frankly also staggering.

532 Posted 02/05/2014 at 18:31:37
Funny that with the TW poll just asking a yes or no-- I guess its for people who do not wish to write a comment, the majority are voting for a Everton not to loose..

John Gee
539 Posted 02/05/2014 at 18:45:59
John Barnes on Talksport this morning: "If Liverpool win the title it will be the greatest achievement in the history of the premiership."

That quote is the beginning of the narrative of football in this country for the next twenty years if that shower are handed the title. And I do mean "handed". How Skirtel, Flannigan and Suarez don't get sent off almost every game is a mystery. And I'm not even going to get started on the referee allowing Gerrard to smash his opposite number in the first 15 minutes of most games and not even getting a talking to.

The media have spent all season slagging us off over our loans but, strangely, this week they're all saying we should be allowed to play Barry against City. Add to that the relentless pressure being put on our club in the media to question our integrity if we don't win on Saturday. They've also tried to elevate a long ball team into 1970's Brazil. And I'm sick of it.

Please Everton, for the 39, for the Anfield residents, for Dave whelen's neice, for Evra, for Coventry city, for the good of competition and the Corinthian spirit... let City win

Here's a bold prediction for you all, within 5 years they'll be relegated. Something is rotten in Denmark because I have NEVER seen a team get so many favourable decisions in one season. When it's uncovered, heads will roll left right and centre.

James Hughes
540 Posted 02/05/2014 at 18:35:44
A question on a different scenario (maybe next year): RS and Cittee are in the exactly the same positions, but we are 2nd in the table and a win would leave us 1 point behind them. Would anyone be praying for a Manc win? No, they wouldn't... they would be praying for a win tomorrow and for them to choke.

Yes, we have been hurt by their past actions and the media bias, and my own feelings have been fluctuating all week. Ultimately though I want us to win regardless.

If the worst happens and they win the title I will belittle their achievements due to volume of penalties won, rat boy would make an excellent ballet dancer, Clattenberg is a red and many others factors.

But mainly I would be dismissive and do my best to ignore it

Andy Crooks
541 Posted 02/05/2014 at 19:13:53
Post 508 is the worst I have ever seen on this site, and I include some of the nonsense I have contributed.
Mike Jones
542 Posted 02/05/2014 at 19:21:42
Remember Shankley and his back window curtains and manicured garden and his second city team;

Remember Hughes and his "crazy" insult to Everton, when many Evertonians had turned out in the City Centre to congratulate him and his teammates in May 1977;

Remember the going down parties being prepared by RS in the week before Wimbledon 1994 and those that had started 20 minutes into the game;

Remember Heysel and the ban;

Remember Benitez' small team jibe.

Any Evertonian left that wants them to win the League has my admiration because you are clearly destined for sainthood.

I've never met a RS who shows anything other than vested self interest; as a group they are the most odious fanbase in the Country.

For the past four weeks leading up to last week any of them I know have patronisingly told me that we will get fourth (the unsaid statement being that they would, of course get 1st). Well for the past week I've told them they may get 3rd so well done, you are punching above your weight, that would be a great season for you etc etc.

If Everton win tomorrow I wont be a happy bunny. Give that lot nothing. Mark my words, we win or draw, your RS acquaintances will be taking the piss out of you within 30 seconds of the final whistle. And the truth is, you know it.

Come on City. Please don't fuck it up again.

Yair Kaye
543 Posted 02/05/2014 at 19:33:05

I don't object to us being in the Europa League next year. I just don't think it promotes our club any further, and in case the board cannot give Martinez substantial sums for investment, it will hurt us in the PL, which should be our main focus.

And I just don't think it is an excuse to let the RS off the hook by crowning them Champions, especially that we are almost guaranteed a place in this competition anyway. It would have been different if we didn't screw it last Saturday the CL is a different story.

You also state that "Losing (at home) to City just confirms to the masses that we are in a lower tier". Did losing to Chelsea at home last week confirm to the masses that the RS are in a lower tier ? Complete nonsense.

Si Cooper
545 Posted 02/05/2014 at 20:03:46
"Any Evertonian left that wants them to win the League has my admiration because you are clearly destined for sainthood."

For fooks sake!!!! No one wants them to win ANYTHING! This is an occasion where what is potentially best for us is also best for them; that actually applies whenever we took points off a team that could potentially finish above them.

"I've never met a RS who shows anything other than vested self-interest; as a group, they are the most odious fanbase in the Country." And for that reason we should think and act just like they would?!?!?

Guy Hastings
546 Posted 02/05/2014 at 19:53:35
We draw/beat City, Palace beat LFC. City win their game in hand. I can't see what all the fuss is about (cue howls of etc etc).
Graham Mockford
547 Posted 02/05/2014 at 20:00:57
As Descartes once said, "It's a funny old game", well maybe it wasn't him but it was someone equally deep.

Personally I don't give a shit if Liverpool win the league; after years of conditioning, I sort of got used to it, I have learnt to cope. Obviously my defence mechanisms are a little rusty but they were reawakened in 2005.

I want us to win tomorrow regardless of any other result because in the long run it's what we have to keep doing. If that means they win the league well ultimately they deserve it, there I've gone and said it again.

Dave Lynch
548 Posted 02/05/2014 at 19:59:50
For all those stating we have more " Class, integrity and are different to that lot" are kidding themselves silly.

Do you really think they give a flying fuck about what we or any other team think of themselves?

They have a "win at any cost" mentality and are driven by their own self-importance. They will take the piss out of us unmercifully if we turn City over and make their stupid self-righteous banners for the next derby.

What was the quote in The Guardian: "always blameless, repentant for nothing"... or words to that effect.

I hope we crash and burn tomorrow and Palace get a result, a draw will do. No apologies at all for this post either.

I detest them with my very being.

Mike Jones
549 Posted 02/05/2014 at 20:26:49
Si Cooper

God bless you. Yes, tomorrow, I think like them.

Paul Andrews
550 Posted 02/05/2014 at 20:35:09
Mike Jones,

Well said Sir.

Andy Walker
551 Posted 02/05/2014 at 20:39:17
If the RS win the league, the gulf between our 2 clubs in terms of money and the ability to attract better players will increase further. In other words it will damage our club as it will be even harder to get top 4 next season. Looking long term strategically it will therefore be better for us if the RS don't win the league. We should play a strategic game and think of ourselves.
Si Cooper
552 Posted 02/05/2014 at 20:51:42
Andy Walker - that is not a fact, it is merely a tenuous supposition. You leave out the fact that Champions League qualification gets them pretty much the same money and exposure as a title win (Mourinho was apparently happy to scupper his teams chances of the title to increase their attempt on the Champs League, amongst many other examples of why teams don't really need to reach the top spot) and that missing out on Europe weakens Martinez's options in getting funds from the Board and attracting top calibre players.
Rob Halligan
553 Posted 02/05/2014 at 20:37:17
Re Brent, Derek, Colin Mike, Dave and anybody else who fancies joining the TW 11 for tomorrow's game.

Sorry just got in from a scouting mission. Been round a few pubs after work looking for blues who fancy a game tomorrow.

Actually been on a 40th but don't tell kenwright that, or I may be sacked.

Anyway it seems nobody else fancies a game, so unless city fancy a game of 5-a-side, we're fucked!!

Brent, unless Harold shows up in quick time, then I was going to suggest Mr P. Walling as manager, but as the game is now only less than 24 hours away, and we haven't heard from him for nearly a week, I think we are reaching desperation stakes.

Guess it's down to Bobby M and the boys!!!

Eugene Ruane
554 Posted 02/05/2014 at 21:14:58
Andy Walker (#549) - "If the RS win the league the gulf between our 2 clubs in terms of money and the ability to attract better players will increase further"

Maybe the financial gulf WILL 'increase further', but the financial gulf between the two clubs was already absolutely fucking vast and we still finished above them last year.

And the year before that as well. (And that was with miserable ollies in charge in charge of us.)

Sorry but all this 'if this happens, that will happen' is pure drive-yourself-nuts guesswork.

Eric Owen
555 Posted 02/05/2014 at 21:26:05
Just saw this url. Having been in Canada for so long didn't realize they were so mean, re the comment about Shankly and the Goodison fans:


Now they want OUR HELP.

Because of Liverpool fans I seem to remember Everton and English football being suspended from Europe when we had the team.

I've ofter heard it said, "What goes around, comes around".

Brent Stephens
556 Posted 02/05/2014 at 21:32:06
Rob, so we can't field a side. So we forfeit the points. Citteh get the points. Problem solved!

I think Harold put on his suit to go and see Sir Alex.

Graham Mockford
557 Posted 02/05/2014 at 21:23:55
Rob great call


Walling Keepers are always a bit out there

Brady. Left Back specialist

Sorheim My favourite
Ferry. Left wing obviously

Daley. Our two most creative players up front

Beat that!

Brent Stephens
558 Posted 02/05/2014 at 21:41:48
Graham, so I've been dropped?! I feel like the Leon Osman fall-guy. Mind you, I am good at falling over.

And how come the editors get a game? They should be banned - they 're always giving it out.

Graham Mockford
559 Posted 02/05/2014 at 21:45:04

I sent you on loan to Yeovil, maybe next year

Rob Halligan
560 Posted 02/05/2014 at 21:38:01
Shit Brent, hope the Premier league don't think we have thrown this game on purpose!!!

Do you think the Premier league will think we have and give us a points deduction for the start of next season?

Brent Stephens
561 Posted 02/05/2014 at 22:04:19
Graham, Yeovil?! On the level?!

Rob, Graham has come to the rescue. TW team picked and ready to (sort of) go.

Rob Halligan
562 Posted 02/05/2014 at 21:49:51
Blimey Brent, my idea and I'm dropped as well!

Who nominated Graham as manager?

I will be knocking on his door and demanding a transfer midweek. Bloody hell, 2 days loyal service and this is the thanks you get!!!

Brent Stephens
563 Posted 02/05/2014 at 22:08:05
Rob, did you not see the Chairman's statement on Sky Sports where he said he had every confidence in you?!
Tony Abrahams
564 Posted 02/05/2014 at 21:22:08
Similar to the transparent vote for Destination Kirkby this one. I don't know anyone who wants Everton to draw, never mind win, but reading this thread and it's about 60/40 in favour of An Everton victory.
Everton will have a proper go tomorrow like they always do. It was the 4-4 at Old Trafford two years ago which probably won City the league, and we also have a 5% chance of Champions League, but, it's a real, real, dilemma isn't it?

Not for me it's not though because I feel that we are going to get The Europa Lge whatever happens at Goodison Park tomorrow. I can accept Liverpool winning the league, however much I don't want them to, I just don't want Everton to help them? Eugene each to his own mate but why would you want us to win this game five-nil? My seven-year-old nephew/ godson wants to wear his City kit tomorrow and he doesn't even know them cunts have ever even won a European Cup!

Rob Halligan
565 Posted 02/05/2014 at 22:15:11
Kiss of death then eh, Brent.

Never trust a chairman's backing for a manager in times of trouble!!

Brent Stephens
566 Posted 02/05/2014 at 22:20:21
You had 11 hours, Rob, and never delivered in the big games. Time to move on, mate.
Kevin Tully
567 Posted 02/05/2014 at 22:23:10
I'll be Max Clifford in the new set up lads - unlike OFM I'll take a big interest in the kids!
Simon Lloyd
568 Posted 02/05/2014 at 22:28:33
Graham #556 I'm afraid I can't agree with your midfield. Marsh may well be very effective but he goes missing for long periods.
I see Ruane more as a combative midfielder, ready to scythe down any opposition who gets a bit fancy.
You also want a midfielder who won't give up in the face of determined opposition, someone like Si Cooper if this thread is anything to go by.
Rob Halligan
569 Posted 02/05/2014 at 22:27:17
Guess so Brent.

In that case I resign, scrap the TW 11, with a 100% record of "played 0, won 0, drew 0, lost 0, scored 0, conceded 0 and points 0"


Ray Roche
570 Posted 02/05/2014 at 23:06:45
Pick me! Pick me !
Jamie Barlow
571 Posted 02/05/2014 at 23:09:22
Jamie - do you really think Liverpool will get significantly less publicity if they fail to win the title?

No- but I think they'll get significantly more if they win it.

Mike Price
572 Posted 02/05/2014 at 23:15:14
Si Cooper and his 'tenuous supposition' postings are seriously getting on my tits!
Brian Denton
573 Posted 02/05/2014 at 23:25:44
Oh, I don't know. I just DON'T fucking know!
But I suspect when I'm in my seat and we kick off I'll want us to win, while realising with a heavy heart that if we do we'll have made the nightmare vision come true....
Paul Ferry
575 Posted 03/05/2014 at 00:20:41
Mocky - 556 - great stuff and so well researched as I was, as you know, left winger in the great Ursuline Catholic Primary team on the mid-70s and also - if modesty permits - skippered the lads for a while and my two goal performance against Thornton County Primary is still I believe talked about in Crosby footie circles.

I have to disagree a little about the team.

(Using the good old days 1-11 numbers as this seems appropriate)

1 Harold Matthews - not as agile these days - a bit Dad's Army - but nothing better than an experienced pair of safe hands at the back controls his box well and will let his defenders know that he is there needs to work on crosses but eight decades of attrition have not helped

2 Peter Mills youngish a good sort of right back in the Steve Finian mode good crosser of the ball and his dead ball acumen is second to none

3 Dick Brady/Brody or whoever he is depending on the time of day - needs to come good on his obsession with left backs and this might well be the game for him

4 Ross Edwards angry, young, all his parts work, fire in his belly, always ready to take an opponent on good height on him will compensate for the shortness of Ray Roche it will be good to have a teenager in the team to choose some trendy hits for us to listen to will wear big fck off headphones when arriving at stadium

5 Ray Roche a tad risky this one and again a little Dad’s Army but this seasoned observer of Labone is a good fit for the centre of defence where his experience will be a great help to his young defensive partner

6 Jimmy Sorheim the hardman of the team tough in the tackle a little tubby it’s true but can close the opponent's midfield down if he stays on the pitch for the full 90.

7 Phil Sammon has to be on the right wing and shows no fears when crossing picket lines has a good turn of pace - his Rooneyesque hair transplant has done his confidence the world of good

8 Will Leaf "Inchy"! faster than a sperm on a mission tricky his balls rarely go astray and arguably the fittest (in the sense of fitness not hotness) player on the team since the operation

9 Kevin Tully very much in the tradition of the great EFC number 9s 6 foot/3 inches powerful build good touch for a big fella and a fox in the box will lead the line in the best traditions of that term if sober

10 Sam Hoare tucked inside the hole behind the #9 great in holes and no-one better getting into boxes so long as he gets over his groin strain from his most recent celebrity sexfest

11 Paul Ferry OBE the first name on the team sheet the flair man of the team often likened to Peter "nightclub" Marinello pacey, racey, and tasty a Bobby Dazzler on the left who can change a game in a heartbeat (witness the scissors kick in the redcafe match) his flamboyant lifestyle off the pitch is matched by his luxurious skill and touch on the pitch the heartthrob of the team and a truly great all round fella with all his charity work to boot sex on legs as the female fanbase often quip


Richard Dodd not been playing for a while but a dependable pair of hands argues a lot in the dressing room and can be bad for team morale but it’s between the sticks where it matters

Nick Entwhistle not reliable enough to be named in the starting 11 only comes on these boards sporadically might well be painting and decorating

Ian Burns would have been in the starting eleven but it's a late kick off and might not able to keep his hands off his Bombay Sapphire so a spell on the bench with plenty of coffee and water will get him ready if Sorheim gets yet another red card

Graham Mockford still capable of putting in a good 20 minutes as we saw in the Bluekipper game what he lacks in pace he makes up with his reading of the game in this the twilight of his career now that the criminal charges are behind him he might be a good addition to the coaching staff

Eugene Raune controversial and many fans will be baying for his inclusion from the start but he can be best as an impact sub I believe can be risky with all his back chatting to referees but a lovable rogue for all that who still knows where the net is in this his sixth decade

Jamie Barlow confounded the critics with his late winter run of form and unlucky since then with his wisdom teeth almost back to his best and his acid tongue can destroy opponents never mind his turn of pace

Mark Andersson
576 Posted 03/05/2014 at 02:06:44
Once again I read ALL post. I like most have mixed feelings about this game.

However, if we would have taken 3 points at Anfield (dream on) and not lost the plot in certain games then we would not be having this debate.

As much as I hate the RS AND I DO, I think you have all lost the plot. City are way better than us and are back in some form, so what makes you think we can beat them any way?

Obsessing about Liverpool is just what they want. Go and drown your sorrows and blame the RS for this or that. Or get behind your team who ever plays 100% and be PROUD.

Jack Cross
577 Posted 03/05/2014 at 02:48:38
Linda M. We don't want red shite to win full stop. I don't mind sacrificing the City game. Were do you get the idea from that it would be a one-off? They'll be stronger next season as well as defending the league, if they win it. It's bad enough now! and they haven't won it yet and let's hope the smug bastards don't.

Peter Barry
578 Posted 03/05/2014 at 05:38:29
Any combination of results that leaves Everton in at least 5th place above Spurs and Man Utd and stops the RS from winning the title would suit me. That's not too much to ask for is it?
Jackie Barry
579 Posted 03/05/2014 at 06:14:44
Not thinking about them winning the title, really don't care, wanting an Everton victory. I just can't bring myself to want us to lose, this has been a great season and it's about Everton FC.
David Greenwood
580 Posted 03/05/2014 at 07:19:07
This is a horrible one isn't it? So many posts on this topic. I think Peter at @578 has called it right for me.

I suppose in a perfect world we would win both, Arsenal, Chelsea, MU and the RS would all lose their remaining games and we would get 4th and no title for them.

No, take that back in a perfect world we would have won our 100th title in a row and they would be in the 2nd division, about to be relegated down to the conference.

But its not a perfect world, so lets go for Peters' suggestion...

John Keating
581 Posted 03/05/2014 at 07:37:22
Guys. We cannot depend on other games going the right way.
We cannot depend on other teams at all.
It really is down to us alone.
We have to throw the City game
Spragg Johnson
582 Posted 03/05/2014 at 08:08:06
Over 580 posts ... The only line needed is John Keating's final one.
Mike Price
583 Posted 03/05/2014 at 07:54:32
Just do what you did against Palace and Soton...remember...when it actually mattered!

If you raise it up a level and that wins them the league, then somebody, actually that entire team, are going to be pariahs for eternity and laughed at and mocked by the redshite for the rest of our lives.

It's not a joke and it would happen....could you imagine gobshites buying our players a beer decades from now as a thank you for their first Premier League?... It would be my worst nightmare, then again, I'm a lifelong Evertonian.

Brent Stephens
584 Posted 03/05/2014 at 08:34:06
Paul Ferry #575 - SUPERB!

"Eugene Raune"?? - now was that deliberate?

Feel sorry for Rob Halligan. No mention of him after he suggested the idea. And no place for me? I refuse to go out on loan!

Brian Furey
585 Posted 03/05/2014 at 08:25:32
Can't believe some of the rubbish being said on here. Stuff like it doesn't really matter if they come 1st or 2nd. Is that comment for real. Yes they still end up in CL and yeah maybe they will feel a tiny bit indebted to us for one day or more likely 5 mins. But it's been 25 years since they won the title and they have watched Manure take over their mantle which was painful for them. Now we delivered Moyes to take away that pain and so now are we gonna hand them the title as well.
Yes lads, its the Premier League Title. Not just a stepping Stone to the CL. If you know anything about football and can admit they are our biggest rivals AND you can open your eyes wide enough to see the real bug picture. By us beating Man C we ARE virtually handing out biggest rivals the title. We are justifying all their millions spent to their owners. We are saying they are back to being a title winning team and with that comes confidence, more sponsorship, more investment, more money for them to rebuild and us falling further and further behind.
Now some if you might argue but sure that's happening already with Man C or Chelsea. Yes prob true but do you really want RS to be back at that top table.
In my totally biased eyes if you don't care what they do then you're not a real Evertonian or you else you're very naive about the real soccer world.
That might sound harsh to some of you and think I'm not a very balanced or fair guy. Trust me I know sport very well and here in Dublin, Co. Dublin have won 2 of the last 3 All Irelands. Before that you would have to go back til 1995 for their last success.
Now they've got so much confidence, sponsorship, etc that the other counties feel they won't get close to them for years.

How will you feel if Liverpool dominate again for the next 5 years just cos we 'let them' win it.

Kieran Fitzgerald
586 Posted 03/05/2014 at 08:52:53
I'm just not prepared to take us being treated as plucky little Everton for another summer and next season by the media and the football world in general. This season has been very enjoyable for me in terms of the recognition we have gotten for being genuine top four contenders. If we manage to finish in fifth, we will be written about in much more positive terms than if we finish in sixth or seventh. If we allow or accept the idea of the season just drifting away from us, then the disappointment will be gut wrenching for me. Liverpool have already enjoyed success this season far beyond their wildest dreams or expectations when it started in August. Combine that to the idea of us ultimately being no better off than we were at the start of the season and I will be ready to top myself.

Honestly, I just don't understand how people would be happy to sacrifice a positive end to a very positive season for us just so that the RS don't win the title. This idea that not getting fourth place means that the season is now over for us doesn't make sense to me. The idea that fifth is no different to seventh, I don't care anymore doesn't make sense to me either. Nailing down fifth place shows everyone that while we didn't have enough to take fourth, we didn't just lie down and revert back to type. We actually kept going all the way to the end of the season. We kept up the positive approach and the new way of doing things this season all the way to the end.

I don't want to give the media or the RS any more ammunition than they already have had in recent years. But even if us getting a result today helps the RS win the title, the football world will still have to give us the credit that we have deserved this season. They have been already all season, a good result today will see that continue.

Matt Geraghty
587 Posted 03/05/2014 at 09:12:12
@Brian 585

You say that Liverpool are our biggest rivals? To me it looks like Arsenal & Spurs, are our biggest threat.

My opinion hasn't changed since I knew the importance of this game. I always want Everton to win and always will, regardless of how it will affect other teams.

Mike Hughes
588 Posted 03/05/2014 at 09:44:48
No avoiding it today.
Just walking our Dixie and a rs dog walker said, "good luck today, mate"
I said, "that's a bit of a change of tune after the Steau Bucarest banner, isn't it?"
The response? A laugh, shake of the head and "that was a long time ago"


Malcolm Joyner
589 Posted 03/05/2014 at 10:36:02
Doesn't a fifth place finish rather than seventh mean an extra £2.5 in the bank and not having to start our season in July? Also an indication to the football world that Everton is making real progress,season on season.

This thread has open my eyes about the priorities of so many of our supporters. It's as though they see no further than how we finish in relation to our neighbours - regardless of all else.

And just so you know, I write that as someone who was born, schooled and works in this great City of ours!

Shame on so many of you.

Jim Knightley
590 Posted 03/05/2014 at 10:45:32
I want Everton to finish highest, and win every game. If, or when we score, I will celebrate it like I celebrate most goals. I want us to finish fifth not seventh. If Liverpool win the league, they deserved to win it. It's as simple as that. And I will always put our team's success above Liverpool's failures. Some fans may choose to become Liverpool fans instead of Everton? yep. Just as they would have done most seasons, using that logic, when Liverpool routinely finished above us, and competed in Europe, with their spending vastly outstripping ours. As it will continue to do until our financial model is changed by a buyer, or the fantasy of a new stadium. Maybe, Everton's and Liverpool's success this season will turn the eyes of England, and to an extent the world, away from Manchester, or London, and back onto Liverpool. Maybe it won't be a bad thing if we finish fifth, and Liverpool win the title. I don't want Liverpool to win the title. I think, irrespective of the rivalry, Liverpool have poorly conducted themselves over the past few seasons, both in relation to us, and to the Suarez racism scandal. I'm not a fan of their fans either. But, that does not mean I would take their failure above our success. Honestly, I think it's pathetic, if we as a football club have resorted to wanting to lose, just so Liverpool do not win the title (Which would still be an if, even if we took points off City). Are we Everton supporters, or Liverpool haters? Will any of you truly not celebrate earnestly, if we dominate City, and Coleman marauds forward past the labouring Kolorov to steer a ball into the top corner, and takes us back into Europe in the process?
Dave Lynch
591 Posted 03/05/2014 at 11:09:45
In in a quandary over our team selection.

How do you draw fat overweight stick men ? I've got the looking clueless off to a tee and can even throw in a gormless look every now and again.

I've invested £1.69p in a pad, pencils, rubber and sharpener.

Kevin Tully
592 Posted 03/05/2014 at 11:11:38
Has anyone had the text doing the rounds from Liverpool fans apologising for all their past insults and injustices against us on the pitch? Quite funny actually.

It ends with 'Now stop being so fucking bitter and get 3 pts against City.'

It will be some game today alright.

Rob Halligan
593 Posted 03/05/2014 at 11:21:53
Brent I think the fact I said I had been on the ale last night done it for me. Breaking club rules and all that the night before a big match.

Had too many let downs regarding Everton over the years so one more won't hurt.

Fuck it I'm off to wetherspoons in Liverpool. Me transfer request is in the post!!!!

Pat Kennedy
594 Posted 03/05/2014 at 11:12:15
I come from a family of mixed reds and blues. We mercilessly taunt each other. I've enjoyed being higher than them in the last 2 seasons in the League. They don't enjoy whatsoever having to look up at us!

BUT I'm an Evertonian through and through. It's about who we are and what we do. I want my team to win every game.

My 2 cousins are both rabid reds, good sound lads who go home and away. Proper fans just like me and mine. This week they have continually said that we will lose to City because we don't have the mental strength to cope with Liverpool being successful. Whilst my first inclination was to tell them to fuck off, I didn't.

Like many of us who have been going for donkey's years (40 years a season ticket holder and counting), I've never enjoyed hearing that 'Grand Old Team' song. It's so fuckin small time - We don't care what the red shite say what the fuck do we care?. Well there's obviously a lot on here who do. Many of you are consumed by your hatred of them and it's simply irrational.

If you are an Everton supporter you should be wanting us to win and confirm 5th spot . We need to be back in European football to attract better players. Our squad is good in quality but lacking in depth.

If Liverpool win the league then just get over it. The league is about 38 games not us v City.

My cousin Rob (a sensible bloke) responded when I said to him you'll be gutted if you finish 2nd to City, said that if they do it's still a great season for them. It was all about them getting in the top 4 places and going from 7th to 2nd in 1 jump with guaranteed CL Group stage games next season is their major prize. That's what many fools on here are missing.

Winning the PL is a dream for them as is getting into the CL places is for us.

If we lose to City then we go down with all guns blazing and not bending over. We have class, dignity and integrity and a manager who will take us far. Let's make that first step tonight.

Eugene Ruane
595 Posted 03/05/2014 at 11:00:59
This thread has, if nothing else, shown (me) that a huge change has taken place in....people (Evertonians...society?).

What a bunch of tarts we appear to have these days.

As much as I'd love NOTHING more than Liverpool to lose the title in the cruelest way possible, if they win it, they win it, and..that'll be that.


Fucking behave, it's not the Hindenburg bursting into flames - "OH THE HYOOOMANIDDY!"

Someone even whined about their kids taking stick if Liverpool win.

Well yeah, they WILL - and? (what are they made of, China?)

You're an Evertonian - you root for Everton and hope Liverpool lose, that's the 'deal'

Doesn't work out the way you want - tough.

I blame American telly for much of the above hysteria and carry-on, the likes of Opra in particular.

Opra: (handing tissue to weeping middle-aged man in blue scarf) "After Palace got their third, did you feel...violated?"

Much of what I'm reading is people saying "I can't deal with the idea of things not going exactly my way. I won't deal with...do you hear me - WON'T!"

Advice, support YOUR team and see what happens.


Shut up.

Mike Hughes
596 Posted 03/05/2014 at 11:51:58
Calling Evertonians "a bunch of tarts"
Why don't you "shut up"?
Mike Allison
598 Posted 03/05/2014 at 12:07:08
I've deliberately skipped the comments on this because I expect to find it depressing, but this is an important issue as far as I'm concerned.

The reasons are well documented why we might hate Liverpool. Heysel and the damage the European ban did to us is the most tangible of these as far as I'm concerned, but call me soft if you like, I really don't want to hate them. I've mostly failed in this over the years as they've just been so hate-able, but at least this season they've been good at football. I like football, and I appreciate when it is done well, so I've hated the Rodgers Liverpool this season far less than I've hated the mediocre, we-deserve-more-just-for-being-Liverpool teams of the last 10-15 years.

None of that is my main point though, its just a bit of background to how I feel. My main point is this: wanting your own team to lose in order to spite Liverpool is bitter, petty and small-minded and represents, quite literally, a loser's mentality.

Do I want Everton and its fans to be bitter, petty, small-minded losers? No, I don't. I want my team to win every game it ever plays. Given the focus on this match, the discussions raised in the media this week and the alarming sentiments of 41% of my fellow ToffeeWebbers (according to the current poll figures on the homepage) I want to win this game more than ever. This game has become a litmus test of who we are as a club. This game for me will define who we are.

I know Martinez and the players will give it everything, and I know that might not be enough because City are a hell of a team and need the points to win the title, but if any of the fans inside the stadium echo the 41% and let our club down, I will feel pain, misery and shame in a way I've never felt about being an Everton fan.

Today is our chance to show the world who we are. Who are we?

Eugene Ruane
599 Posted 03/05/2014 at 12:17:54
Mike Hughes - "Calling Evertonians "a bunch of tarts"

No, I'm not calling 'Evertonians' a bunch of tarts, I am however calling the ones BEHAVING like a bunch of tarts, a bunch of tarts.


Jay Rollinson
600 Posted 03/05/2014 at 12:28:03
I want us to win and hope Arsenal screw up. What if Man City were to win today because of Everton lying down and Liverpool still went on to win the league? THEN you would definitely never hear the end of it. How they did it despite Everton trying to screw them over.
Tahir Abdullah
601 Posted 03/05/2014 at 12:42:08
I can't believe that some on here can't believe what some others write on this thread; this is TW after all...
Mike Allison
602 Posted 03/05/2014 at 12:54:53
I often don't agree with Eugene, but I'm with him 100% here. If you claim to be an Everton fan but you want Everton to lose today you are a tart and should be ashamed.
Jamie Barlow
604 Posted 03/05/2014 at 13:10:22
West Ham 1 up. Spurs down to 10 men.
Phil Bellis
605 Posted 03/05/2014 at 13:07:12
Yes, yes, all very well, I'm sure, but there are is a far more important issue - the Everton shop website is showing the new Summer "fashion" range, still with the My Liitle Pony badge
Thought that abomination was being buried?
Brian Furey
606 Posted 03/05/2014 at 13:01:30
If we lose today and spurs win they go level on points but we've a much better goal difference. So then it goes down to the final game away to Hull.
Do you really think Hull won't field a second string team? Even if Long and Jellyfish do play I really can't see them putting up any fight and so 5th will be ours anyway
Are you thinking we can beat Man city but not beat Hull?
Of course anything is possible but you would imagine with the injuries we have, the talent they have how much it means to them now they're back in with a chance thanks to Chelsea, I will be surprised if we don't lose today.
Everyone's entitled to their own opinion of course but I'm surprised how many of you can't see the longer term consequences of us winning today.
I hope its a good match and there's no controversy.
C'mon Hull today
Eugene Ruane
607 Posted 03/05/2014 at 13:16:46
Phil (605) I'm just waiting for a badge/crest APB from the club that begins..

"We regret..." or "Unfortunately..."

Brian Furey
608 Posted 03/05/2014 at 13:30:30
Wow now 2-0 to West Ham so that's more or less Spurs out of 5th. Liverpool will be pleased
Dan Forde
609 Posted 03/05/2014 at 13:01:46
Do I hate Liverpool? Yes I do. Do I hate Stevie Germ? Yes I do. Do I want to watch him lift the Premier League trophy? No thank you. If we could change their history, should we? Yes please. Would it hurt losing to City? Not much. Would it hurt Liverpool if we lost to City? Yes. Everton 0 City 1 for me please.
Matthew Roberts
610 Posted 03/05/2014 at 13:06:18
I agree with Mike, wanting us to lose out of pure spite, is just stupid. We are Everton fans, not anti-liverpool fans. Fair play to Liverpool this season, they play nice football and so they probably deserve to win it.

COYB today and I hope we take Man City apart, and I hope all Evertonians are behind their team in that aim! Those who aren't need to question their loyalty to the club.

David Stewart
611 Posted 03/05/2014 at 13:31:36
If your going to the game today and you want Everton to get beat, is it possible you could wear a white feather?

See, when we get 4th, I'd just like to know who I'm buying a pint for, hate to waste my money.

Mike Hughes
612 Posted 03/05/2014 at 13:56:26
Eugene #599

That was the response I'd expect of a precious 12-year-old brat.

So I'll provide my standard reply in similar situations.

(Yawns, walks away ...)

Dave Lynch
613 Posted 03/05/2014 at 14:09:57
My reasoning has nothing to do with taking stick... It is to do with football: if Everton can't win the title, then I sure as hell don't want the other lot across the park to win it.

We have as stated by many suffered enough at their hands and a lot of it wrongly IMO. As long as we lose fairly then all is well in my world.

I would call the "I don't care if Liverpool win the title brigade" tarts. What has happened to rivalry? A kopite once said to me that was happy for Everton to banned from Europe because he thought we would win the European Cup and he wanted only Liverpool in this city to have that honour.

It seems to some we have to ignore their attitude toward us and behave like an abused wife who cannot leave her husband. Keep ignoring the slappings and put downs and it will eventually go away.

This city is football mad and the rivalry is what makes it so special, the teams and fans are so intrinsically linked because of the way the two teams were founded off the back of one another.

I do not want them to win the title and if that makes me a tart then so fucking be it.

Matthew Roberts
614 Posted 03/05/2014 at 14:32:53
Maybe I'm the only Everton fan who has this view but I quite want Liverpool to win it. We can't so let's have our neighbors win it.

Our rivalry is quite different to others, so I thought anyway; lots of families have both Blues and Reds in them, how close we are was shown in our Hillsborough tributes.

Yeah, when we play them I want to take them apart, and yes it is incredibly annoying to hear a gobshite spouting off about their team, but I'd rather see them rather than Man City or Chelsea win it. It doesn't affect us who wins it so, in all honesty, who really cares?

And to ask for us to lose against anyone in any situation is just treason: you should be banned from the stadium from here on in.

Mike Hughes
615 Posted 03/05/2014 at 15:49:40
Dave #613 - Excellent post.

Matthew #614 - FFS, see #613.

Phil Bellis
617 Posted 03/05/2014 at 16:03:41

You're on your own with that one


Jackie Barry
618 Posted 03/05/2014 at 16:05:23
Never wanted Everton to lose a game in my life and won't start now. Goes against everything I believe in and the obsession some people have with the rs is quite frankly sickening. Oh well maybe it's just a sign of the times.
Mark Tanton
619 Posted 03/05/2014 at 16:16:26
Jackie what it easier to stomach? A home defeat at the end of the season, or months - years, even, of them unspeakable fuckers winning the league with more penalties than we've had corners and gloating ever after?
Jay Rollinson
620 Posted 03/05/2014 at 16:37:01
Graham @557

Some attacking line up that. John Daley and Eugene Ruane together upfront? Good enough to win the league on their own. Not sure about that defence though.

David Cornmell
621 Posted 04/05/2014 at 04:59:49
Fifth and three points to the citeh. A really good blues performance, the injuries probably were too much to overcome in the end.
Now come on the palace. Tart or not, you've got to see it through!
Simon Bradley
622 Posted 04/05/2014 at 06:44:33
I got my wish. Couldn't have asked for a better day really. Spurs and United losing, Blues guaranteed Europa football I watched the City game here in the US this morning. Everton showed up, and really played a great game, they did not sit back and took a great team to task. City are class, Aguero is an outstanding footballer who I believe has the best goals per minute ratio in premier league history. Imagine if he wasn't so frail.

Now we can sit back, and pray City win their last two games. If Liverpool lose against Place, we will be in dreamland. Cant WAIT or next season!

Mike Hughes
623 Posted 04/05/2014 at 12:33:50
Simon #622

My feelings exactly.
Thanks for an excellent article. I bet you did not expect over six hundred posts when you wrote it.

I think you opened up a can-of-worms which went beyond the stadium debate a few years ago. Much of the debate was heated but adult / civil in nature. One or two, in my opinion, revealed themselves through their lack of class.

In no particular order, this is what I learned this week:-

1. Evertonians are a diverse and passionate group of people.
2. "Nil Satis Nisi Optimum" can mean different things to different people.
3. Points 1 and 2 elevate us as a fan base relative to our loathsome neighbours as we don't all sing the same tune or hold five fingers up.
4. Not everyone understands the word, "obsession" as it was misused numerous times.
5. To my shock, some Blues actually wanted the rs to win the Premiership (keeps tight-lipped to avoid upsetting all within earshot).
6. Some Blues bet on the rs to win the Premiership (for me, a stomach-turning thought).
7. Some people misinterpreted some fans not wanting an Everton win as "throwing" the game. It's not the same thing. Everton FC are a cut above in the integrity stakes. The fans' wishes have little if any bearing on the outcome.
8. Having viewed some post-match websites, kopites are even bigger gobshites than I originally thought.
9. And so are a large proportion of the media.

I am guessing that for a sizeable number of Evertonians', whether they admit it or not, their sentiments were represented in the word used in your title, "dilemma".

It certainly was and I don't want another like it for a long, long time.

Onwards and upwards.

Simon Bradley
624 Posted 04/05/2014 at 20:50:57
Mike #623

LOL it wasn't even an article, I posted a reply on another thread (as my first post on ToffeeWeb) and the mods deemed it worthy of its own thread. I guess they were right; and no, I was never expecting over 600 posts.

I felt pretty strongly about this. I'm as much and Evertonian as everyone else here but I really can not stand LFC. I knew 4th was out of our reach really and now it has all panned out that way, I bet every single ToffeeWeber (ha, is that even a word?) is with me praying for the same outcome of the title race.

Brian Furey
625 Posted 04/05/2014 at 21:52:01
Great summary there Mike and I can't wait for work on Monday. So many red twats will be disgusted to see me. I might even where a blue shirt
Mike Hughes
626 Posted 04/05/2014 at 22:08:31
Simon - amazing result from a simple post.

By the way, your thread revealed that NOT every single ToffeeWebber is praying for the same outcome of the title race. Some want the rs to win it (scroll though your thread) and some even have money on them. Shocking!

Brian - I'd hang fire there on Monday.

I reckon there could still be a few twists and turns. Remember the rs have a deal with the devil so it's not over until it's mathematically over. And even then they'll probably try and work something dodgy.

I'm waiting until the season is over and the outcome is as we wish before I get the smug grin out and play Z Cars on a continuous loop.

If Man City do win it, I can't wait to see the expression on Gerrard's face. But like I said ......

Simon Bradley
627 Posted 05/05/2014 at 02:22:11
Mike #626

Yeah mate, I just went back and looked through all the posts. I can't believe some want LFC to win the title. Our neighbors, great for the city etc etc. The endless gloating and rubbing it in the noses of Evertonians can not be good for the city in my mind, we are part of that city also.

Simon Bradley
628 Posted 05/05/2014 at 04:06:27
Here is a quote from a Liverpool fan. Someone I was very friendly with back in the 80s but since drifted apart due to our lives and where they took us (I moved out of the country for one thing). But I respect him. He has written a book about Kenny Dalglish, and the Liverpool side that won the double in 1986. He is also a contributor to a Liverpool FC website.

"You'll feel hollow about that pretty soon. Everton will never win anything while this obsession with the redshite persists. It's the club's whole reason of existence."

He was responding to a comment I made online about being pleased, as an Evertonian, that we lost to Man City.

I just do not understand the fans of Liverpool Football Club.

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