Saturday's Dilemma

We do care because our history is ever so entwined, right from the start, and we have 90% of the time been on the wrong end of it (and you don't need me to regurgitate THAT list).

They have sneered at us for years," small club"..."19 years and counting" etc.

Don't forget when we played Wimbledon some of their fans had coffins with the Everton crest built ready to parade them.

No dilemma for me.

I'm really hoping for a West Ham win/draw against Spurs as I really don't want to go into the Hull game having to win. (We don't typically do well in those situations) We need a point to beat Man U and if Spurs fail to win then we will only need a point against Hull.

But regardless I think for the first time ever I will be happy if Everton lose against Man City and the way I cheered the teams on yesterday just confirmed that.

I really don’t want Liverpool to win the title and if the only way to stop that happening is to gift Man City 3 points next weekend, so be it.

We have to be careful as Man Utd could still pip us for 6th and if we finished 7th we would have no European football of any kind which would be disappointing.

I really want to beat Man City and finish 5th but the idea of Steven Gerard on an open-top bus lifting the Premiership Title makes me cringe.

In a weird way I’ll be happy winning or losing against Man City.

I’ve been an Evertonian for 49 years, since I was 7 years old. I want Everton to win every match, I don’t care about Liverpool or what their fans think, say or do. For me it’s about Everton as simple as that.

You know how they get.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2614427/Liverpool-Chelsea-fans-clash-outside-Anfield-following-Blues-victory.html

FFS!! nose-face-cut off comes to mind, if we lose out on European football we won't be able to attract better players that we need to have a real shot at it next season. I'm an Evertonian first, second and third; yes I hate the RS becoming champions in fact I detest the Sky 4 (but strangely not as much as Spurs & Newcastle and their delusional supporters), but my only concern is my team

We finish 5th or 6th (4th has gone) - no big deal for me as progress has been made this season. We'll kick on next year.

Or the rs win the league? Opening the floodgates to months / years of further snide, hypocritical scumbags talking down to us; increasing the profile of the rs; reinvigorating their transfer policy with fresh blood that will sustain them for several years; continuation of the media love-in; "Being Liverpool 2: the turd resurfaces"; moustachioued, skid-mark stained gobshites bigging it up around town; Stevie Me on chat shows, sculptures and the subject of leadership development courses ... I could go on but I'm starting to tremble with hatred.

I hope we are as professional against City as we were against Southampton - those two own goals would be perfect next Saturday. Give the kids an end of season run-out.

It's not just about us - or the city. There is a greater good at stake here, not to mention my own mental health. (It's Monday morning and I'm eating my breakfast wearing a City scarf. FFS! The rs winning the league cannot be allowed to happen.)

We no longer have a dilemma as we can’t really get 4th anyway... Back that with the injury list we have and we will lose anyway so best to milk it, wind up all of the Red Shite that we will roll over so they don’t win, classic wind-up if ever we had against them. I’m sick of the TV showing those wankers in the kop and them lining the street when the coach comes in it just so desperate and I’m glad they have blown it.

I live in the south and what gets everybody is the media are saying all neutrals want them to win but believe me they don’t; like us, they hate the RS and the media bias towards them.

I went to Southampton on Saturday and was gutted at our display. Yesterday afternoon, I was jumping up and down when the second goal went in. Don’t let anybody fool you otherwise – they would do exactly the same in reverse so enjoy the whole week of winding them up. We’re all laughing at Liverpool, ha ha ha!

Aguerro takes it, Howard dives full length, get's a strong hand to it, tips it onto the post, where it rebounds off his slap-head into the net, to give City a richly undeserved victory.

They couldn't say we didn't try...

Do you really think they spent over £100m on the Stanley Park Stadium without laying a brick? More than our cowshed in Kirkby would've cost?

This obsession with Liverpool just starts to get all a little embarrassing. If they win the league this season; so be it - frankly I'm only concerned about how far up the league we can go.

So, to that end, I'm still holding out hope for 4th, but if not that, then we need three points to secure 5th. Whether those points come against Man City or Hull, I'm not too bothered.

I don't want Liverpool to win the League just as much as any Blue but I cannot bring myself to wish a defeat on Everton - not under any circumstances. Sorry, I'll endure the taunts if need be. Our integrity means something far more to me than throwing the towel in.

Of course, in an ideal world, Arsenal will lose tonight and at Norwich, we'll win both our games and Liverpool will lose at Palace. Not going to happen is it?

Still can't wish a defeat on Everton though!

All this talk about "what would you prefer" (RS champs or chumps; us 4th or 5th etc) is computer game stuff and unreal. We might not be having much influence on the outcome.

Signed, A Proud Bitter Blue to the end.

And the season isn't even over. What a climax. What tensions. What dilemmas. Again, regardless of outcome, what a last two weeks it'll be.

And then the immediate anticipation of what next season holds.

The world is brilliant at the moment.

The only conclusion for this thought process is that the writer's hatred of Liverpool FC exceeds his love of Everton.

Not many people's definition of a true Evertonian, I suggest!

The season could go from really good to really disappointing if we don't get European football considering the way we have played this year, the positivity that been around the club etc...

My rant is over – bring on Saturday night and let's get European football under our belt and the European tour we could end up going on! COYB!

Without the £40-50 million needed to build a strong enough squad for league/Europa, I can see us finishing mid table next season.

Add to this that most of our league games will be on Sundays, which for me just never feels the same as a Saturday 3pm kick off.

I don't buy into the idea that we can attract better quality players if we are playing in the Europa League, so if we don't get Champions League this year, Man Utd / Spurs are welcome to it.

No true supporter would wish their own team to lose for any reason. The RS are not even guaranteed the title if we do lose.

Saturday's game will be very difficult as Man City looked very impressive against CP.

If our actions contribute to the RS winning the league, so be it, much as I dread the thought and would love Stevie Me's mistake yesterday to haunt him for ever.

I'm looking forward to stuffing City on Saturday, amid a cacophony of "what a waste of money" chants.

For gods sake that is exactly how Liverpool fans think and behave. We are Evertonians and have always been above that sort of bad sportsmanship. Come on lads and girls get behind the team on Saturday and stop worrying about what the Redshite are doing it really doesn't matter.

I'm with the Grand Old Ladies of Kemlyn Road: "Liverpool! tschhh! all fur coat and no knickers; the sooner they're back in the 2nd Division, where they belong, the better."

Now, what was the question, again?

Clive Thomas is a different question altogether !

Fuck me, a few of you make it sound like it's Oldham popping over for a five-a-side kick about next Saturday. Added to the scenario, I'm hearing Baines is finished for the season.

Man City will give us a game, absolutely no doubt and if we play like we did against Palace or god forbid, like we did on Saturday, then the RS are fucked because City will smash us.

It's a no brainer for me, RS & City are chasing the title and as a blue I'm praying, absolutely praying that Man City win it. It does make me laugh though, RS fans will have to sit in Oslo or wherever it is and watch & pray that Everton try and score a few. I'm not sure what Norwegian is for "Lukaku you lazy fuck, get into box" but I'm sure it will be rife next Saturday evening.

I couldn't care less about them but being realistic; beating City wont give them the title, because its won over 38 games; not one. The biggest downside to them winning though is we can all look forward to a Stevie Me movie. Christ.

So here's another perspective.

I want Everton to win their matches and go on to former glories. Does that mean I feel the same about a testimonial, pre-season friendly and a Premier League game? Of course not. Not every match has the same impact.

For me, we have royally screwed 4th place up after it was in our hands with the Palace and Southampton debacles. I think 4th place is gone. I might revise my view after the Arsenal match tonight. 5th or 6th is best we can hope for I think – and it is still progress.

But that now lowers the significance of Saturday's match for me. And there is the added dimension of it's outcome potentially benefiting the RS.

I loathe the RS and have experienced their scummy behaviour possibly more than those stating "they don't matter to us". I don't want them to win the league. If they do, it casts an even deeper red shadow across the city, obscuring our profile even further and drawing investment to them and potentially away from us. There are still people in this country – and further afield – who don't know that Everton is the original club of Liverpool. Their success adversely affects us. In that respect, they matter.

I hope we win and Palace also win. But, as the table stands, our best case is 5th, our worst probably 6th. With the evolution of our style of play, this has been a successful first season for RM – with the hope of better to come next season.

For those decrying the moneied clubs of Chelski and Citeh, I agree. But don't exclude the RS from that category as they have thrown money around like confetti these past 25 years. Or are your memories that short?

Also, for those who say other teams don't matter and so on I'd ask the question whether you subscribe to BT Sport, Sky etc because the majority of games on there don't involve the Mighty Blues. If others don't matter, you wouldn't bother. I don't watch any games if EFC aren't involved – even on terrestrial – and I don't have Sky, BTSport or any other channel.

Like I said before, if 4th is back on, then I want us to win on Saturday but if it isn't then I'd rather finish 5th or 6th; doesn't matter – it still means European football.

Being a bit more pragmatic though, in the bigger picture, it would probably be in our best interests if the RS didn't win the title as IMO it would help put them on a different level entirely to just qualifying for the CL. And like others on here, it's bittersweet to 'celebrate' Chelski or Citeh battering the rest of the league with their chequebook for another year.

In the old days, the players of both sides showed a bit of class; many of them, after all, were local lads with friends on both sides of the Park. Things got worse in later years - remember the hilarious Emlyn Hughes jibe, the Relegation Party at Villa Park etc....

We messed up our season, Everton have given us nothing tangible to cheer for. Why not cheer the demise of others? It's not bitter, it's not small, it's just normal fan behaviour.

I know full well that Everton can win at home when it means nothing. Beating Man City would prove nothing to me for next season. Having to endure them singing about how we gave them Number 19 would last a lifetime.

Also, if we're truly a big club, we should want to hunt down Liverpool's 18 titles. Rather Man City get 4 than Liverpool 19. Now that's a real bic club mentality. Right?....

But the day I go to a game to want my team to be turned over is the day I'll quit the game for good!

What concerns me is that at the Goodison derby we could and should have beaten them 10-5 and it should have been our club that went on to take the title, not them. This year could have been a great opportunity to reclaim our position at the top of the tree and we have not been strong or good enough to take that chance.

I am only interested in what the Board and Martinez do to strengthen our club for next year. At present, we are still set up to be also-rans, not champions; this has to change.

It will be a strange feeling going to the match on Saturday with the dilemma of wanting to win or not? If Arsenal turn Newcastle over tonight then it's game over as far as our CL aspirations go for me.

What do fellow blues feel about the city game? It's easy to say that we should lie down & lose but City have actually got a better team/squad than us so they should win. Our record against them says otherwise.

The way the season has gone so far it would not surprise me if the geordies get a crazy result tonight & put us back in with a chance of CL qualification!!

I had to piss myself laughing last night on seeing Stevie me on MOTD2 slip & gift Ba the 1st goal. I have felt nausea's for weeks with the LFC love-in that the media have portrayed for weeks, I even heard that the stalls outside anfield were selling "Premier league champions" T shirts yesterday!!

A potentially bizarre atmosphere at goodison on Saturday!!!

Did you forget this part?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ip142enLzU0

I think you need to try to look at the season a little more impartially. We were very lucky to win against, off the top of my head, Cardiff, Swansea, Chelsea and Hull at home.

There are of course some matches I am more upset about us losing than others.

Win - win situation.

All those giving it the "you're not Evertonians!", give it a rest, we can enjoy the misgivings of our twatty neighbours almost as much as we enjoy our wins too. Almost as much!

I don't want them to win a thing, I have worked with and argued with too many of the classless pricks to wish them well. We have screwed up fourth so 5th or 6th makes no difference to me now.

Feelings in this are obviously based on personal angst, bitterness and experience. I wonder if you'd have cheered (as thousands of us did) when McKenzie, Ball and Kendall scored at Goodison for the opposition.

I lean definitely towards the Mike Hughes/James Martin camp but may change my mind when the game kicks off; que sera.

As far as wanting Everton to lose a game to prevent the nightmare scenario, I am actually feeling a little conflicted. It goes against every fibre to wish a defeat on the boys in blue, but their victory bus would go past the top of our road!

If 4th is gone by tonight and we can finish 5th by beating Hull on the last day, I will not be too upset if we lose next week, but who wants Everton to lose their last game at Goodison this season? Imagine if we'd scored those two own goals against City?

HELP!

I have been a Blue for coming up to 50 years, sickened in equal measure by the events at Hillsborough and Heysel. I have never, ever wanted us to lose a game, until now. However, should Arsenal win tonight then I will be hoping and praying that City beat us at the weekend. For all the good reasons given by other posters above but especially for the way the RS and the media try to airbrush the Heysel tragedy out of their history. I want us to be a big part of the reason why the RS fail to win the league this term or ever again.

The totally biased and red infected media have been sickening in their constant drip feeding of RS bullshit propaganda since football was invented with the dawning of the Premier League. For the past 24 years (since their last title) according to some deluded RS media "the next season is going to be their season". This past few weeks they have had the chance to win it "in their own hands" and the RS pundits, ex players, celebrities etc. have been everywhere contaminating the air waves. Whatever happened to an impartial or at least balanced media, did such a thing ever exist with regard to the RS?

Am I bitter, yes. Like many of you I could (but won't) go on for pages about everything that stinks and is so unsavoury about that whining, hypocritical club which seems to infect all who enter it from players to managers to supporters and pundits.

Bitter blue for good reasons, you bet! Everton to lose to Man City and stop the RS, you bet! Will that make me feel good for a few years, oh yes! Everton to play against Man City the way we did against Southampton including own goals, yes please!

PS a big shout out for Jose Mourinho, if only more managers and neutrals would stand up and shove it back down the biased throats of the media in the way he did to Jamie Redknapp yesterday. Do you remember him doing similar earlier this season in a match Chelsea played against I think Tottenham? The only 3 studio / grandstand pundits / analysts that day were all RS or ex-RS players or managers (Carragher, Redknapp, Souness) and Jose had the balls to ask during his interview (humorously) "So where are the Spurs and Chelsea pundits?"

One consequence would be the potential loss of a Europa League place. I want to see us do well more than I want to see Liverpool do badly. Of course, in ideal world, I want both, but this no dilemma for me.

Remember after last season's Goodison derby, Stevie G dismissed us as 'Stoke with a few better players' which pissed off Pulis (then Stoke manager) big time. Don't you think he'd love to derail their title bid next week?

Fuck Liverpool FC and their fans. In an ideal world we'd beat Man City (another club I dislike) and Palace turned the RS over leaving the Special One to win the title.

Lets see : Howard Garbutt Stones Alcaraz Hibbert; Osman Gueye McGeady McAleny Browning Naismith? Maybe give Hibbo his well deserved opportunity as lone striker?

To say you want the club you support to loose is one of the saddest comments I have ever heard and I am glad I will not meet any of you!

For any Evertonian to be so obsessed with hatred that they will be willing them to lose smacks of a troubled childhood to me !

wasn't that out on Sunday, Kev?

If Yaya Toure is fit, then – on the way he has played all season – do we really have anyone that can counter his pace, movement and skill?

You tell me off with "Just don't expect me to share...(grief and discomfort)."

I never asked you to; you are perfectly entitled to your belief, stance and opinion.

Just don't belittle (or worse, patronise) myself and others for not sharing them.
Wind yer kneck in, please.

I only ask because you seem so surprised that some Blues would want us to lose to stop 'them' winning the title. About 80% of supporters (all season ticket holders) I have spoken to do not want them to win the title, even if it means we lose on Saturday. Maybe some of them are kidding, but it didn't sound like to me.

Signed, Bitter Blue to the end.

If we came 7th this season (worst than last year) and missed out on Europa as a consequence then I feel that would be an almighty kick in the teeth.

Admittedly I don't live in Liverpool and appreciate that changes the context a great deal but for me I will, as always, be rooting for Everton on Saturday. Though admittedly if we lose, then beat Hull and City win the league then I will be more content.

Good shout that Peter and not one that I had considered but a very valid point.

So those saying "hope we lose to Man City" might get their wish AND see RS winning PL. Then what will they think if we don't get 4th, or even 5th or 6th?

Come on everybody!

"Couldn't care whether L'pool finish top or bottom. Who are they anyway?"

Really?

I think the overwhelming majority of Evertonians would love Liverpool to finish bottom rather than top regardless of their diverging views on the topic related to this thread.

City win and all they've got to do is beat Villa and West Ham at home. I like those odds.

Anyway, I can't believe this is anything more than a philosophical dilemma. Martinez will surely be getting the players pumped up to go for a victory. I hope that if we lose, we at least play like we want to win!

Eugene @8 class as always. You I mean not LFC supporters!

We beat City and Hull
Arsenal lose to Newcastle and Norwich
Liverpool lose a fractious bad-tempered 1-0 to Palace.
City beat Villa and West Ham

We finish 4th, City win league on goal difference.

Prior to Chelsea's win yesterday, I was hoping the match would not have a bearing on Liverpool's attempt to win the league.

It will certainly be a strange occasion...

I'm not an Evertonian who has a soft spot for them lot and I make no apologies for it. The media have been waiting for their coronation and yesterday wasn't in the script. As one or two other posters have expressed better than I could, their former players are all over the media pushing this media-friendly image of LFC whilst neglecting to discuss anything negative about them. I feel that if they don't win it this year then it will be years before their time will come again. Playing in Europe and a much stronger Man United will seriously impact them in future.

In my view, the rs winning the Prem is far more harmful to Everton than us finishing 5th, 6th or even 7th.

Harold's view "who are they?" could be humorous but could also be deluded.

"They" suck all of the attention from us in this city. "They" also suck most of any finance going as they will be a bigger income for the city than EFC. "They" have done more damage to Everton than any other club (Heysel, ban from Europe when we were at our peak, big v small club, media hype – including the local paper). Any Evertonian not taking "them" into account is burying their head in the sand.

And, further to earlier posts, I'm not saying we should throw the game. We're a professional club and won't do that. I just won't be as upset as usual if we do lose this one particular game.

The big picture is getting Everton on the national and global map. I travel across the UK. There are people who don't know we are in Liverpool. People assume you're from here, you must support the shite. In Europe, I have had work colleagues not being very familiar with us.

Let's hope we can start putting ourselves on the map by winning silverware from next season. For me, we have blown 4th place this year. If we have to emerge from an even bigger red shadow of our neighbours being champions, it will be even harder.

Regardless of this coming weekend's results, if EFC win, lose or draw, I really would hate the RS to win the Prem for all of the above reasons because it does adversely affect us.

Don't count on 3 points at Hull City as they have to play Villa and United before we go there and they might still be under threat of relegation on the last day. I wish this City game had been our last match of the season.

It's amazing that with only 24 PL matches to play nothing at the top or bottom of the league has been settled yet.

Champions League is still not out of the question despite our defeat on Saturday - of course it is unlikely but it is at this moment in time anyway still possible.
Wake me up on May 12 and tell me what's happened as there is far too much to fret over on the football front in the coming fortnight.

Spot on, well said.

To be honest, I would be surprised [very] if Newcastle 'give it a go'. The only chance for us is if Arsenal have one of those games where the ball just won't go in - hit bar, post, defender's arse etc etc. There is no way the Barcodes will put in the sort of shift which would win the game on merit.

I bear those scars to this day, and having endured the mid 70s to mid 80s with the 5-0 / Clive Thomas / Souness, Case etc / Hansen at Wembley 84 / Heysel / European ban / cup finals 86 & 89 and so many more, I cannot fathom ANY Evertonian that would prefer that shower to win the league over any other side.

Those bastards robbed us of what could have been the greatest period in our long history - thanks to them we will never know - and I will never ever forgive them for it.

Bitter, no I'm not. I would put money on their supporters wanting to lose a match (even missing the europa league by doing so) if it meant a) Everton winning the League or b) Everton being relegated.

When we were in dire straits in the Wimbledon year, they had a blue painted coffin ready to ceremonially bury us in the Mersey.

I see already the bloody papers are (some of them...no, most of them) putting our bastard offspring back on their (the media) pedestal of Kings of Football.

Dave (92 ) I agree 100%

The reds are revving the engine on that bus again!

Although I was beginning to think City did not seemed fired up enough but now that Toure & Aguero are both fit, And with Barry & Mirallas missing, they will have too much for us.

I had also read that morning that Brenda was upset that Carragher was not at the club this season to "receive a league winner's medal" - that wound me up no end for the Chelsea game I can tell you.

That said, there isn't a scenario where I would ever want EFC to lose a game and when the City games kicks off this weekend, I will be on TW Live moaning and praising in spades like the rest of the guys on the site. Reading the differing views on the outcome is going to make an extremely interesting 2 hours this weekend on TW Live!! Bring it on but wishing for an EFC loss - never - not for me guys.

If Newcastle get something out the game, then it's a dilemma!

The discussion here regarding wanting us to lose on Saturday is in my opinion fairly academic. I keep picturing Yaya Toure in a 50/50 tackle with Osman or the Barcelona boy and can only see one outcome. We will try our best but I think that the paucity of the squad will eventually be our downfall and the natural result will involve the RS getting the result that they do not want......

I for one will then give rousing support to a team that has made me smile all season, played good football and made me think that we may well have replaced Moyes knife with Bobbies Bazooka.

No, still can't bring myself to want City to win.

All this talk about "what would you prefer" (RS champs or chumps; us 4th or 5th etc) is computer game stuff and unreal. We might not be having much influence on the outcome.

For me, as always, it's one game at a time, and you can neither chose nor predict the results. The Premier League title and all the finishing positions are determined by all 38 games each side plays. Somewhere, this simple reality seems to have gotten lost in this FM mindset.

As for the few playing the "not Everton supporters" line, Brent is again right: I abhor such talk. Clearly for some Everton supporters, there is a dilemma; for others, not. However, it's not the first time and won't be the last, that the diversity of opinion revealed in these threads will inevitably be lost on some who want us all to be homogenized.

Would I love them to tank the league? It'd be hugely amusing. At the expense of even a moment of Everton putting in the absolute maximum effort in to win a match? No.

And if I think about the bigger picture, there's part of me that actually wants them to win the league. Manchester City are the epitome of everything that is wrong with football in this country. The less success they have the more chance there is for managerial instability there and for them to fail to take full benefit of their ridiculous financial advantage. The RS, for all their sins, are not the same kind of threat to the landscape of English football as a Manchester City team with essentially completely unlimited funds, if they ever start to settle into success.

Also the atmosphere will be interesting at the weekend, but I can't see it being like the Southampton game (against West Brom I think) a few years ago where their fans were actively willing and cheering for their team to lose to send Portsmouth down on the last day.

Let's not fall for the RS propaganda that their team has been pieced together on a shoestring.

For all those who don't mind the RS winning the league, think about those occasions where they have hammered us and then started singing "3-0 in your cup final" or the "10 more years of Moyes" chants at Wembley. Think about possibly having to sit through the open top bus tour which every TV channel will feel compelled to show. Think about their gloating RS fans who won't let it drop. No thanks! I hate 'em.

"Not an Evertonian" for wanting us to lose? No. But maybe petty, small minded and bitter Evertonians who choose to define us purely against what the RS do or don't achieve."

I'm quite happy with the petty, small-minded and bitter tag.

But your premise is incorrect - that I (we) "define us purely against what the rs do or don't achieve".

It's simply an incorrect statement that indicating lack of comprehension of previous posts and fellow Blues.

Unlike you, I won't dignify the rs by the use of capitals.
Unlike you I won't even suggest for the briefest moment that part of me might want the rs to win the league.

You use City's money as the basis of your "root of all evil" argument. In the history of the Prem, I'm not sure where expenditure between City and the rs stand but I'm confident if the rs have spent less than City, it's not by much.

That'll be another flaw in your argument.

Petty, small-minded and bitter?
Why? Because I see the bigger picture of how the rs winning the league will damage EFC - and you don't?

I'm not sure what that makes you.

There, I've officially put the mockers on it, as is my custom, so we'll lose - and I will be happy if that means the others don't get to be champions.

This FFP shite would only be fair if we were all starting from the same point, within a level playing field, but we're not. It's designed to maintain the status quo and nothing more. I agree with Craig. If City never got that cash, how else would they compete? They wouldn't.

I hate the bastards, every last one of the victim mentality, divine right, blameless fuckers.

I remember that final day of the season, our sponsor was one to one and they had T-shirts printed with gone to one on them and had banners in pubs with RIP Everton, one city one club emblazoned on them.

The pubs where chokka with the bastards gloating and willing us to go down, so FUCK every last one of them.

When they say or do anything, it's all harmless fun but anything against them is seen in victim mode.

I would laugh in the face of every one of them if we got Twatted by City and it cost them the league, our push starts next season as Roberto will have moulded his team his way by then.

I'm making no apologies for this post, it's the way I feel.

The RS winning the league will damage us no more than it ever has in the past.

Far more damaging is the overall impact on football in England (and yes, overall in expenditure I'm sure the RS and City are pretty close in the Premier League era, but trying to suggest there is some kind of legitimate comparison given the unlimited oil oligarch funds since the Arab takeover is farcical) for City to really start to consolidate a dynasty backed by financial security that makes Abramovich's Chelsea money pale into insignificance.

And it's an impact that undermines us more than anyone; because it further emphasizes the idea of Everton as the fourth of four big northwest clubs.

Robin #107, take a cold shower fella. Everyone I know who's into footy be it Chelsea, Spurs, Man Utd, Palace etc etc of a similar age (40-odd) sees this as THE worst outcome and I absolutely concur. Much worse than the shower of fucks fluking the CL in 2005. The scenes pre-match on Sunday should tell you all you need to know.

I'll be able to recount to the gobshites every gory detail of the game.

"The RS winning the league will damage us no more than it ever has in the past."

Another flawed argument because the damage to us in the past was immense. But you can simply accept further damage on the basis of it being no worse than it was in the past?

Or to use your own words from an earlier post, "there's part of me that actually wants them to win the league."

Er ...... (scratches head and checks this is ToffeeWeb and not 442 magazine)

I rest my case. No further comments.

I do NOT want us to roll over to City. I want Everton to go out with the integrity to win every game.

However, if Arsenal win tonight and effectively seal 4th spot, then I don’t want Jags/Baines risked if half-fit. Baines/Jags etc should only play if 4th place is up for grabs. If not, give the youngsters a chance in a huge game and let them see how far off the pace they are.

If anything, it might give them a reality bite and get them to knuckle down in training. (eg, Vellios comes across like he thinks he has made it already... let him see how far from the finished article he really is and see if he knuckles down to improve.)

Same with Garbutt... maybe even Ledson get an appearance as a reward for his hardwork? But only if 4th isn’t up for grabs. We should never go out to intentionally loose. We should always play the match for the better of our club! So if the 4th is gone and the opportunity for us to play a weakened youthful side presents itself... then go for it... but only to BETTER our progress.

Liverpool should never factor into it. What abuse would be worse? hearing them crow about their league victory or moan about how we rolled over?

Don’t let them use us as an excuse for their failure! It’ll hurt them more when they fail on their own.

I'm not going the match. If we win, I hope it doesn't hand the title to the rs. That's why I would be torn.

Just to ram the message home for those who don't get it, the rs winning the league would massively damage EFC, much more than us finishing 5th, 6th or 7th.

I can't be arsed going over the reasons why as it's posted earlier in this thread. People can like it, lump it or bury their heads in the sand. But it's a fact and it truly is a dilemma. My argument is not simply a loathing of the rs, it's also based on commercial reasons. We would be even further behind in a 2 team city that barely acknowledges us now. Try walking through John Lennon Airport if you don't believe me.

Jesus, son, get a grip

I know Roberto will quite rightly send out his team to win but I really think Hibbo deserves a chance up front and the Toffee Girl should get an outing in goal

The above was an attempt at humour - poor, agreed, but it's Monday

"We would be even further behind in a 2 team city that barely acknowledges us now."

So true, Mike. I can't understand why this doesn't get through. Though I accept it, I accept it ; I'm not saying those with other views are bad Evertonians or lesser Evertonians for Christ's sake.

I didn't say that those with other views are bad Evertonians or lesser Evertonians.

Those bad or lesser accusations seem to be made at not by those who are taking my position.

Whatever happens I also hope that the other lot don't win the title because it will be a media frenzy with every day-time News programme etc filled to the rafters with hangers-on and regaling us with stories of Shanks, Paisley et al along with the wit and wisdom of the Oslo based Kop.

also Peter, it's funny the amount of redshite fans hoping that Newcastle beat Arsenal tonight because it will keep us up for the Man City game.

also Peter, it's funny the amount of redshite fans hoping that Newcastle beat Arsenal tonight because it will keep us up for the Man City game.

also Peter, it's funny the amount of redshite fans hoping that Newcastle beat Arsenal tonight because it will keep us up for the Man City game.

Now project forward and imaging next years Champions League Semi Final and the chance to turn over the dark side in a game that really matters.

I can dream, yes, but we must be in the Champions League in the first place.

Stunning. Absolutely stunning.

That's staggering, I am not usually one for conspiracy theories and the like but flipping' 'eck how much pimping do the FA want Clattenburg to do for the rs this season! Will it be a couple of pens awarded before half time just to make sure Palace lose interest in the game and start focusing on their holidays? FFS.

For me, there is most definitely a conflict of interests. But I think I know what I think. And it’s going to be weird.

Personally I'd be happy to lose against City and pick up a point against Hull to be sure of a European place. The CL is all but over.

Actually I'll never be happier than is we lose to City. Weird eh.

On the one hand, I'd love us to beat Shitteh, then again, The Shite winning the league is unpalatable to say the least.

I guess the best outcome is The Arse lose tonight then it's a no brainer! We have to beat Shitteh hands down on Saturday.

I will reserve my right to wait until after tonight's game, before I resolve my ambivalence.

We all know it, it’s in our DNA but it has to said again for the younger blues. If you are on Twitter or Facebook please try to filter this message to as many Blues as possible and players if at all possible. The alternative is to see Stevie Germ’s poxy creased phizog holding the Prem Trophy aloft on Skysports, BTsports, ESPN and MotD for the rest of our lives. We have to throw this game.

(I was in "nark" mode after being labelled small-minded, petty and bitter by someone else who was more small-minded than me!)

I don't think a poll would be useful here. Polls tend to segregate things into black and white and this dilemma is far more complex. It would also make those who wouldn't be heartbroken if EFC were to lose look like they were:

(a) prepared to throw the match which I wouldn't want to happen or
(b) small-minded when I would actually argue the small-minded ones are those who don't see the far greater damage to EFC of the rs winning the title.

But in this situation, EFC might win a small, quickly-forgotten battle while the rs win a historic, much celebrated, rub-everyone's-noses-in-it war.

I, on the other hand, am all over the place on this one but just grateful after the last seven days that the Shite are now in a position to lose the title. I didn’t think that would happen but every bone and breath in me is to quote Alan Birchenall on a windy day in 1975 after a narrow Leicester win ’over the moon’.

Mr Griffith, seeing as you seem to be in the seat of judgment, is it okay for me to hope that we draw on Sunday – get the point we need – and for the shite to lose or grudgingly this draw at the super Eagles?

Nobody ever tell me that this isn't contrived, I am gonna have a tenner on them getting 2 penalties.

When you say shit sarnies do you mean shit sarnies or 'shit' sarnies.

(Seems this bloody machine of mine knows sod all about 'sarnies' and keeps typing sardines - fucking useless)

The part we play putting the championship back in their hands will be acknowledged briefly, but soon forgotten and airbrushed from history.

England's representatives, who would probably have beaten Steaua and Barcelona put together, were a team who played in blue but were not allowed unfortunately to play in the European Cup that year.

Not bitter.

I have no crystal ball (evidence - Lawrenson has already beaten me in our Everton predictions for this season!). However I am willing to predict that the above combination of results will not happen. For starters I can't see Everton losing their last 3 (inc Southampton) games.

Here is an alternative scenario :- Everton may be in the Europa League without kicking a ball on saturday. Spurs could lose at West Ham in the early kick off.

Regarding the focus of this thread, I cannot want Everton to lose any game. I suggest those who want a City win do not actually watch the game, thus sparing themselves the torment of :-
(a) not cheering if Everton score or
(b) feeling pleased if they concede.

There is another assumption that Everton beating City will hand the title to the redshite. It is not the last game of the season. There will still be points to be won and lost after saturday - so why not cheer on The Blues?

You know that you want to!

Here is one final thought, for every ridiculously bad decision that the RS have had over us, (Clive Thomas, Don Hutchinson, Alan Hansen on the line, Carra fouling Lescott etc) well us throwing this game would put all the above into the shade and they would hate us for eternity.

Lets throw it big style... Call me old fashioned

Mourinho, God bless him, did a great job yesterday, and we should complete the mission on Saturday.

That would annoy the RS no end

I have many friends and relatives who are from the dark side and they are telling me that they expect us to throw the game. I say bollocks to them, we should go out and look to win. If we lose to City after giving our all then so be it. Under no circumstances should we want our team to lose. City not winning at our place will not hand our neighbours the title. It's over 38 games and if they ( god forbid) win the title then we'll just have to suck it up.

I've been watching the blues since 1962. I've had the good fortune to see Alex Young, Roy Vernon, Ball, Harvey and Kendall in their pomp. We are born not manufactured and should have more class and style then to play the small time bitters we are often called.

Me and my son and grandson ( 3 generations of blues) all season ticket holders will be there on Saturday night cheering on the boys and subsequently on Monday night praying for a Crystal Palace victory. I would enjoy that!

I can never understand how people who profess to be Evertonians think that it's somehow a sign of their 'passion' to display their hatred of Liverpool FC.

Treat them as I do, they are rivals of us in the same City nothing more nothing less. You only get 3 points for beating them just like anyone else. Too many people on this site are obsessed with them. I will enjoy taking the piss if they don't make it, but get real they have gone from finishing behind us in the last 2 seasons to guaranteed CL football next season, so they have a lot to celebrate!

I'm delighted however to see our progress this year, the football has been a joy to watch under a progressive young manager. Thank god Moyes went to MU and enabled us to escape the suffocating tactics and his constant lowering of expectations. Europa League please next season will do for me. CL would have been wonderful but you can't always have what you want

And Barca get off on the ban imposed.

I feel like packing football in cos the whole fucking thing is a stitch up. And we'd have probably got stitched.

Fuck the c**ts.

Not bitter though. Lol

I am not ashamed one little bit. We'll still make the Europa League anyway, so what's the problem?

Bollocks to them. I haven't laughed so hard at someone falling over as when Captain Fantastic fell on his face and Chelsea scored yesterday!

Mourinho is such a bad loser but bloody hell he hates the red shite more than us & fergie and doesn't half wind them up. Got to like him for that alone

Stranger things have happened admittedly, but I doubt it.

I nailed my colours to the mast early in another thread.
As far as I'm concerned I don't care much what happens in the remaining games, it was CL or nothing for me.

I certainly don't want the colour red waved under my nose continually, if that rabble win the Prem.

How many times have they f***** us up over the years, Clive Thomas, Emyln Hughes, Alan Handball Hansen, European Ban, Relegation Parties, The Clattenberg Derby, Atkinson sending off Rodwell and so on. Saturday isn't about wanting Everton to lose it's about time we paid the RS back, if we lose to City and City go on to win the Title, i'll have a smile as wide as the Mersey all summer. knowing that for once we f****** them up.

I can see mass arguments/kick offs between the blues who want us to win and those who will be happy to see us lose. The stewards could well have their work cut out.

Whatever happens, we will not come out of this well.

In the bigger scheme of things, the real loss to us in a two team city that panders and fawns to one side only is for that said side to go on to further glories.

They deserve it? "Drawing" penalties by diving, being allocated sympathetic refs as well as their usual odious antics. I won't even go into the past history that others have rightly delved into.

I don't want these rs scumbags winning anything because it affects us adversely on so many levels - including commercially.

I can't believe some Evertonians just don't get this!

I'm not saying throw the game as that would be unethical and unprofessional.

But all teams lose a few games in a season and if I had to choose one it would be the City game. If it happens it'll be the only occasion in my life time to date that I won't be upset at an Everton defeat.

The CL has well and truly gone so there are no upsides for us, just the potential for a massive, yawning, media-frenzied, gobshite-laden red hell.

We lose 7-6 in the most magnificent display of footballing skills since Joahnn Cruyff.

And the Red Shite are indicted in a racketeering case in somewhere the average IQ is about 75, such as Arkansas. But the penalty is around USD.400,000,000.

And Palace win.

This is what they deserve; the oblivion of failure, lacking even the secondary goal of honour.

Don't forget the Don Hutchison goal, Jimmy "Shithouse" Case and Souness tackles etc etc. (Not to mention quite a few personal incidents over the years that require some "karma").

I just hope the fans play it cool and are not too explicit in expressing hatred of the rs. That will backfire on us. I can just hear Alan Green highlighting our "bad attitude" live on air......

While the settlements each club have been offered remain unknown, Uefa could reveal the outcomes as early as Friday.
Uefa president Michel Platini recently said he did not think any of the clubs who breached rules, which limit losses to £37M (€45M) over the last two years, would be liable to the most powerful sanction of being excluded from European competition next season.
Sides not playing in Europe this season will not have to pass the FFP rules until next autumn.

So the Merseyside clubs didn't come under scrutiny this season due to the absence of European football interesting.

Who was it who mentioned 2005 all over again but this time in slow-motion?

The whole game reeks of corruption and deals made in off-shore locations, why aren't these things sorted in the close season and not during the fag-end of the campaign. Could be a busy summer for the lawyers methinks.

What about us?
Did we pass the financial fair play rules?
(I won't be able to sleep now)

Tomorrow go to Hills and put 500 nicker on - HOCCCCKKK-SPIT! - 'them' to win the title.

5/4 returns £1125.

So if they lose the title, you'll win happiness - a wonderful happiness that'll give you a glow for months (you'll look like that Ready Brek feller)

And if they win the title, well...you'll win enough to pay for a season ticket for 2014/15.

Points to feet - 'daahn there f' daaarncin Rodders'.

Interesting thought...

But even if that was the case, we'd still have whoppers amongst us willing us to lose.

Interesting thought...

But even if that was the case, we'd still have whoppers amongst us willing us to lose.

Platini does not rule out the exclusion of European football, but just did not think it will happen – the decision could be taken as early as Friday by a Uefa committee.

A large fine is no punishment to Man City if the fine is paid by the extraordinary wealthy gulf state owners.

To those who say what will we do when City score, it will probably be the same as any other game, we'll all blame Osman or Hibbert!

And Eugene, nice one – already took that bet after they beat City, so, if the worst happens, at least I can bugger off abroad for the Summer

In the first minute we gift them an OG (a diving header by Alcaraz past the hapless Howard), then we start playing a bit and sorta threaten their goal (Lukaku to sky a good chance over the bar) and just as we are looking good we give away another OG (I know, I know, it sounds a bit suss). To make sure we lose, we pay the ref beforehand to not give us any clear cut penalty decisions and obviously the linesman will snuff out any dangerous through balls

Oh bugger, we already did that at Soton!

Seriously though, could you imagine the reaction of RS fans (and media) if the "Soton scenario" happened against City instead? Conspiracies theorists would be going nuts!

Since then of course the odds have dropped like Suarez in the box.

So using pure cold hard logic and rational thinking (and as the odds got a little better after Stevie Me's comedy pratfall) I am now convinced that the only thing that can stop 'them' winning the title is me throwing a few hundred nicker on them.

Works with all the horses I pick.

The old reverse-a-rooney works for me also
My last winnings on the National was as a nipper, 1s/8d on Oxo (only name I could read)

They wouldn't thank us though, in their arrogance they think they deserved it even though they've cheated their way to a lot of results.

The way I look at it is this: would they want their team to win if it would mean we would win the title?

Yes if we gave it our best shot and came up short, especially if we did it in our own inimitable 2 OG's fashion or some other typically Everton snatch defeat from the jaws of victory manner. it might be some scant compensation, but only minor

The trouble is that some have been saying this for months now before we had realistically blew our chance.

What if we were neck and neck with the Arse same points, same GD just how many would STILL be saying it.

Nah if you want Everton to lose well you have to live with your own decisions.

Don't you DARE watch it on tv

Don't you DARE get up at zero dark thirty to watch

In fact if you are a regular match goer give your ticket to somebody who DOES want them to win and will shout to that effect.

Me? no. I have a ticket and yes I am getting a bit personal... coz I do take it serious I always did and I always will and will be disappointed if they lose having spent a large wedge to come halfway round the world on a plane for nearly 2 days to watch them win.

rs fuck em I thought we don't car what they say... or do

Not being a Liverpool resident, it wasn't until I read what some have posted on this thread, that I have come realize the depths of that hatred. All who post on TW are true blue Evertonians. That some are hoping the Toffees lose, so that LFC doesn't win, is totally alien to everything I, and hopefully the team, believe in.

If I lived in Liverpool, I might have a different slant on things; but I don't and I don't.

I can imagine a much bigger group that will. No matter how we play on the day, no matter how hard we try, if we fail to win, then they will claim we did it deliberately, and enter full-on victim/conspiracy mode. If we only draw, they'll be delighted as, assuming they win their last two games, we've also knobbled ourselves for fourth and handed them the title.

Osman player of the year and guaranteed 100,000 at his testimonial!

Hero status for ever.

Don’t forget that LFC ’ALREADY’ have that bus parked up with League Champions 2014 painted and ready to go!

They can show the Ozzie own goal on the starting credits for MOTD all next season!!!

How's the song go? "We don't care what the red shite say", well reading some of the replies here I'd say some of us are obsessed with what they say –' fuck em I say, we're Everton and no matter what they do they'll never have me giving a toss about them... and I spent the 70's and 80's watching them beat everyone.

Also, fellow Blues, whilst still a long shot 4th is still possible; if we can beat City and pray that Arsenal get beat or only draw then there still is hope. So as we play before Arsenal this weekend I hope all our match going Blues get behind the team and help them along to 3 points. This is the dawn of a new era for Everton, this is Bobby time, 3pts and onwards.

From now on, I'll look at my fellow 'supporters' in a new light !

Great fallback option Eugene #224 but I might go one further and book myself and the family a flight somewhere remote.

Liverpool and their backers and the tv companies etc desperately needed Champions League qualification. Coincidence that every major challenging game in the second half of the season has been reffed by Atkinson or Clattenburg and rivals' games by those two and Dean. Record number of penalties for. 27 mins at a time without conceding free kicks etc etc etc... It's all a matter of record.

The fact that not one journalist pundit commentator has noticed this or seen fit to comment hell even question and investigate just to establish/ensure the integrity of the sport is hugely depressing and worrying. What does a dodgy regime look like ? What kind of things would it do ? If it walks like a duck ?

I clearly don't know if there is a "conspiracy" how could I ? But the behaviour of the FA, refs and LFC's favourable decisions are indisputable and a matter of record... surely such probability busting circumstances raise even the most credulous people's suspicions.

We don't need to "throw" the match, because with our injuries mouting up we won't win the game anyway in reality. We have Distin, Jags, Mirallas, Barry and possibly Baines all missing for the game, whilst City have Aguero and Toure back at exactly the right time.

My head is saying that I would absolutely hate it and go into hiding if the RS won the league, mainly beause it would be unbearable to endure, therefore wanting City to win.

But my heart says that as a Blue, you never want your team to lose a match, and, I know I'm deluded, but 4th is not completely over in my mind. If we win the last 2 games, Arsenal could take their foot off the gas for the Cup Final, become complacent and draw with WBA and lose to Norwich. It won't happen of course, but the hope always remains.

I will want us to win against City, but the reality is, we probably won't, especially with a potential defence containing Alcaraz, Stones and Garbutt.

What happens if we do lose both our games and end up in seventh? Will all the people clamouring for a City win sit back and go hurray, great, brilliant, the RS didn't win the title? Or will you all sit around bitching about how we fucked up a great season, the seventh is the same old story for us and that Martinez is no better than Moyes?

With this being ToffeeWeb, you'll all sit around bitching. Unbelievable, considering how we deserve a good ending to this season, you're all hoping for us to lose. We really are that small minded and bitter as fans.

If Platini has the balls to back what he's been saying and implementing, they should be kicked out, but it won't happen of course.

How I hope we win both matches regardless of the impact on the RS !

If we win, we’ll get, "The bitters won us the league...19 times, hahaha Thursday nights channel 5 etc

And if we lose, we’ll still get, "fix, it’s a conspiracy, moan, moan, moan"

But then again, we have a lot to avenge. Thomas, Clattenburg, Atkinson, The European Ban, That Bucharest 1986 banner, you can go on. And it would be nice to see Stevie’s little face when they bottle it.

6th will likely get us into the Europa League anyway as I reckon Arsenal will pump Hull in the cup final.

If we lose to City I'll be happier than if we win and I'm not ashamed to say it. Anything that stops those cheating shites from winning anything is alright by me and I reckon the players will be cheered off the pitch if we do lose and they'll know exactly why.

Yes they have professional integrity to be concerned about, and I would bet everything that they'll still play to win. I'm hoping for a nice open game, lots of goals from both teams, and something like a 3-2 win for City with us playing brilliantly.

This season will live long in the memory with any luck, for 3 events - us losing to City to help them win the title (yes I'm bitter about numerous things over the last 40 years of my life), Gerrard's big speech after they beat City, and that very same speech coming back to bite him on the arse when he fell over against Chelsea (which happens to be my absolute highlight of the year so far outside of a few Everton games).

Beware. If City win on Saturday we should not celebrate, simply because it will not mean the rs can't win the league. City will still have one more game, in which they can, and probably will, fail. If Goodison is rocking to a City win, it will come back to haunt us, be shown for years, as Satan plots an ever more twisted way to keep his part of a contract he entered in the 1960s.

Can anyone confirm it? Or the opposite! Cheers

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014%E2%80%9315_UEFA_Europa_League

England Federation two it says, so I read it as:

Seems only the cup winners go into the group stage right off. 6th place plays two qualifying rounds, 5th place one. Unless the Cup winner is in the CL - which I think (hope!!) means that the 5th place team would take their place direct inn the group stage leaving cup runners up to play the two rounds and 6th place just the one.

Confused? Yep me too and also probably wrong!

Season ended at the Palace game due to complacency. Macarthy should have started, it is as simple as that.

Could not be more disapointed with what has happened, we threw it away and I can see no real excuse for it.

Their is a distinct advantage in knowing what you have to do, for example Liverpool will know exactly the position on Monday night, as did Arsenal last night, I really believe it needs to be looked at.

What harm would it do if the last 6 games top or bottom for that matter are not all played at 5.30 on a Saturday night.

They could even show all games live on SKY and BT under viewer choice and charge for it, it would be exciting in my opinion.

Make young Blues' lives a nightmare for the next few years, let's face it they are not backwards in coming forwards with their opinions – just remember all their gloating on the footy phone-ins.

Does anybody really think that they would care that they needed our help to do it? Will it make me feel better knowing that they needed our help? No chance – it would be forgotten 2 nanoseconds after the final whistle of the final game of the season. The fact that they have not won the Prem is one of the few things that contradicts their "We are the best team ever" label that they give themselves.

Even if they did not follow it up with more success – the media will never let the world forget how brilliant they are. They still bang on about Istanbul. The coverage for them over the last few weeks has been sickening, every home match is another opportunity for everyone to marvel at the Kop in full You'll Never Walk Alone voice, even highlights programmes devote some time to it. The media don't need any encouragement to ignore our achievements and if that lot win the League, we'll be consigned to the footnotes of the 2013-14 season.

This is not bitter – this is just not wanting your local rivals to win the League and reap all the benefits which will take them further out of reach. Just like Man City fans want anyone but Man Utd, Spurs fans anyone but Arsenal – it is how it is for local fans.

Seeing as the only thing riding on the Man City match is that we could cement a Europa League place, this makes it easier to look at the bigger picture. A Liverpool title win would be disastrous for Everton.

I expect us to be able to get a good enough result at Hull City to secure at least 6th, and if anyone had asked me at the start of the season that all we had to do was draw the last match to secure it, I am sure I would have taken it.

Martinez should play the reserves on Saturday, because that's what Mourinho did last Sunday against the Red Shite.

Strange how nobody seems to mention that.

What has happened to us, how have we sunk so low? If they win it they win it – nothing we can do about it, even if we lose to City. I was wondering why there were so many references to the other lot this season and the last few days have answered that question.

Today is the 60th anniversary of our arrival back in the top-flight and I wonder what they would have thought of this modern trend in supporting Everton. I despise everything that LFC stand for; I too have endured the brick-bats and suffered the losses as they won trophy after trophy, but it didn't make me feel that Everton FC were second-class and it never will.

Everton never will be a global brand and we will never have the amount of support that our neighbours have – that ship sailed a long long time ago and it ain't coming back; you can blame the Everton board, you can blame the media... blame who you like... but whether or not they win the title has nothing to do with Everton's profile as it has got more to do with the last half-a-century and it will take us twice as long to catch-up by which time most of us won't be around.

Watch Everton, encourage the team, cheer the team but stop obsessing with what the other lot achieve or don't achieve – it's unhealthy and it does more harm than good to Everton FC.

We don't want to aim for the best finish left to us this season in fifth, or have ambition, or actually progress beyond the glass ceiling that our finances, our Board, the national media and everyone else dictates should stay in place for the 'little people' like us. Let's be more interested in seeing our rivals lose and go backwards than seeing our club win and finish higher up the table.

You know what, you deserve everything that gets thrown at us in terms of being tagged 'little people'. If you're going to be so small-minded and parochial as to want to lose just so that our rivals don't win, then don't ever come on here again and whinge about the Board or pitiful transfer funds or anything else that is keeping the club down. You're no different.

I don’t think I will watch any football over the weekend. I might do a ’Likely Lads’ and wait until the final weekend of the season. Who knows, we could still be in with a shout for fourth or, fighting for seventh?

As for being forever in their shadow, well the Man City supporters thought that about their cocky neighbours and look at hem now. Maybe there’s a blue-hearted sheikh out there.

What if you catch a glimpse of a newspaper that says "Everton F..."?

Spot on.

People tying themselves in knots and bouncing off the walls with worry over what goes on over there, while allowing fat-head to continue along his merry, useless, spoofing smirking way... Talk about near-sighted.

Do we get the board (finance, trophies) 'we' deserve? The majority of Evertonians imo definitely do.

Absolutely right. I've given up even attempting to discuss it at the match; no-one wants to know. "Be careful what you wish for..." is the standard, bone-lazy response. We have the club that many of us deserve.

This thread and other recent RS based discussions have shown that there is a significant section of our fanbase who would not take too kindly to us being at best a top 7 team whilst them lot are crowned English champions. I think if the RS were consistently winning the league again whilst we stagnated due to underinvestment then a lot of our fans would become a lot more vociferous.

Say what you want about the RS and as much as I despise them, I have to give them credit for how they hounded out Hicks and Gillette when they were facing financial ruin and sought change at the top. We seemed to be getting some momentum with the Blue Union a few years back but an upturn in results quietened a lot of dissenting voices.

I'm sure if LFC were to replace MUFC as this country's most successful team, then more pressure would be put on Kenwright and the board.

I remember the dark days when they ruled over everything but why the hell should that have any bearing on how Kenwright does or doesn't rule our club? Of course I want to beat them and finish above them, but I want to beat and finish above everybody else too. NSNO

We shall fight them on the beaches, and in the hills. We shall fight them on the landing grounds and in Wetherspoons, we shall fight them on Twitter and on Facebook, we shall take selfies and post them on all RS supporting, cringing, whimpering, chattering, limp wristed caricatures websites, we shall hurl in their faces our glorious history, the sky will darken as our airborne battalions descend on Anfield, blue waves of seething passion, blue hordes singing, snarling, joking, drunken, revelling in our greatest achievement in stopping them from winning the title.

Away from us thou cream faced loons, this is EFC, this is Valhalla, this is life personified!!!

COYB Everton 1 Man City 0. (Hibbert 90+ 2)

Spot on. One of the best posts I've seen on here.

Sitting here contemplating "them" winning the title has thrown everything I hold dear into a world of confusion. Whilst not "hoping we lose" – let's just say for once in my life I will be slightly less concerned at the result. It is an understandable dilemma for all of us.

I think our Europa League place is looking pretty much assured. Although I think it is a poisoned chalice – as it'll drain the team next season – I still desperately want European football back on the agenda. (Why don't they make it a knockout tournament worth winning)?!

The thought of the RS on an open-top bus tour of the city makes me want to chunder. Then chunder again.

Anyone but them. But to want us to lose...? I can't quite 'want' that – it is a close run thing mind you.

I really find the "You can't be an Evertonian" line held in some arguments to be distasteful. When you've endured a lifetime of RS crap – then they have the right to turn a blind eye to one very important result. We all have different viewpoints and however 'wrong' you may find them – you shouldn't question a fellow Blue's commitment to the cause. In this case, for many, that cause is to prevent Liverpool winning the title. Is that such a bad cause?

Ultimately for me, once the whistle goes I'll be 100%, as always, supporting a Blues win. But if it happened to go against us, I would not be shedding any tears for once.

And Simon – their fans would't "thank us" for beating City – they'll be too busy crowing and ramming their title down our collective throats.

If it does happen and 'Stevie G' is on all the front pages – you'll be glad you're in Alaska mate!

(Got a spare room?)

Talking of BK fucking up Everton has been going on forever and the days of supporters kicking up a fuss and letting the chairman know that he's a twat seems to have died. I hate the term "happy clappers", I seriously do but really what the fuck else can be done that has a momentum to it?

However, what really grips me is the way the media behold the RS as the messiah of football. It is beyond sickening. Now we pay for the BBC to operate, we pay their salaries and we have to listen or read to what they see as public news. The BBC footy people decided that "Joe Public" needs to know who is going to win the EPL – Premier League: Liverpool, Man City or Chelsea. The web page is full of stats and possible outcomes, but for me everyone can see the match that matters is at GP next Saturday.

All fairly predictable really, but the final paragraph is the "Also-Rans", could be interesting I thought. Nope, Gollum's lot & Spurs get twenty words a piece on how shit they are. Everton – not a fucking mention. Not a fucking word. There we are, sitting pretty in 5th challenging for 4th and spanking the likes of United and Arsenal.

Now that is why a I will fucking cheer the loudest when City put the ball in the net on Saturday – hopefully the BBC will report it as such.

Spot on mate!

Some of the rest of you need to look at yourselves and those of a certain age think about the sixties onwards. This great club of ours has suffered continuously at the hands of those scum from Mordor, whether directly or indirectly over those decades.

Let's put it this way, and I do stand to be corrected. In my 45 years supporting Everton, I can only cite two examples where we have enjoyed an advantage over that shower. Two things that went our way where they suftered as a result. Namely, the penalty for a Hibbert handball they should have had in the 3-0 win for us at Goodison, and the wrongly given offside decision against the sewer rat in last seasons 2-2 draw at Goodison. That's it. That's out lot. Anyone come up with any more? I can't.

Now everybody continue with that thinking I suggested where the boot has been on the other foot. We could write a fucking book on it couldn't we?!!

No issue for me, I hope we lose on Saturday, and I will be there and it will be difficult and strange for me and I am not looking forward to it really but people it is THAT important just to help Man City on their way, because as we know, it isn't over after Saturday or Monday.

Don't forget — we don't actually decide anything as fans, only players and officials can do that, and yes I do feel a penalty or two coming our way on Saturday just as the Dark Side will get theirs from Twatterburg on Monday. but as fans we hope just like any other game, just a bit alien this time.

I don't want Liverpool to win the League, not because it's them but more because I won't be able to switch on the TV or Radio for the next 6 months without hearing about how great they are and Bloody Micky Quinn spouting garbage.

But I want us to win. I've put a bet on Liverpool winning the title. They win, I win. Softens the blow.

I fully respect your stance; but, please give over the "not as good Blues as us" snidey implications against those of different opinion. That may be your belief, others differ; this holier than thou line doesn't wash.

Sorry to disappoint you but I've lived in London for years and I don't know anyone that talks about rugby union or girl's hockey. You're going to have to move to Surrey instead.

Maybe I should move to Liverpool and grow a moustache to go with my perm and shellsuit?

Seeing things as they are at the moment, I am torn between my head which says that we should still fight on for a Champion's League finish and my heart, which cannot and probably will never be able to face the possibility that our neighbours finish as Premier League champions.

That said, I must admit that, for the first time since following my beloved Toffees, I will be quite happy if we rolled-over and allowed Man City to beat us this Saturday and take the 3 points towards winning the title. I know that there could still be some twists and turns to the end of the season and that Liverpool could still emerge as champions, but at least we hold

the key for the next game.

Then, all we need against Hull on the final day of the season is a draw to see us finishing above Man Utd. A win would definitely be a bonus. But that possibility would mean that Spurs would overtake us for 5th spot which basically would mean missing out on the Europa League.

But is that any different than every Liverpool fan the world over desperately wanting Everton to win???

Hypocrites!

I don't want Liverpool to win the league but I want Everton to get three points or a draw, because to me all that matters is Everton winning games...

I understand why people may want us to lose to hand Man City the title as spending most of my life in the North West, I understand how much grief one can get, they're entitled to that. 3 points for the Blues on Saturday, Europa League football guaranteed, an exciting season done and a thrilling prospect for the one ahead.

We've given ourselves a huge advantage this year, players would think twice about joining a Sky Four team, because we're nearly there with one of the best managers in the country (at this point in time).

COYB!

1) 0-0 at 90mins. Ref adds an extra 8 mins for Everton time wasting:
2) Hibbo scores Sandyesque og.
3) We riot but Uefa think riot is caused by Red Shite fans bunking in to cheer on the toffees,
4) Red Shite get banned from Europe for 10 years.
5) RedShite go into administration and end up relegated.

Bitter? You bet – but with just cause. If you need to ask why, then you’re probably a social worker!

Talking about loosing 5th place is being disrespectful to Tottenham's and Man Utds opponents as if they are going to loose their games. It takes a season to win the league or to qualify for Europe – not one game – and I am only interested in what Everton do. If Everton loose the game on Saturday, it will because Man City will either play better or take their chances – and it will not be a surprise with the team they have and what is at stake.

Personally, I think Everton players are too professional to think about anything but a win on Saturday so they end the season on a high note and prove to the manager they deserve to be at Everton next season.

However, we had our chance to stop Liverpool winning the title but let them off the hook at our place and played into their hands at theirs.

By the same token had we been able to play to the levels we did home and away against Arsenal the title would probably be ours, and CL a certainty. But we didn't.

City also had their own chance to put the title race to bed but froze and got cut to pieces at Anfield and, like Chelsea, have dropped points to opposition that on paper they should have trounced.

So, my view is if City want the title they should come to our place on Saturday and prove why they deserve it.

And if I'm honest, I hope they do.

It's only a bit of craic between Blues & Redshite, lighten up FFS! (How does that Poznan thingy go again?)

Why do the RS always have to piss on our parade? We win the league in 1963 they win it in 1964. We win the Cup in 1966, they win the league and on and on until we reach our highest ever PL points tally and... bitter, moi?

Just writing this has clarified things for me. I want us to stuff Man City, particularly as I live in Manchester.

You might not be interested but here's why:

1. "For 15 years King Billy has sat on the throne and contributed very little to Everton's cause, yet no flak from the majority of Blues"

I like many others voted "No" to BK's Tescodome so he doesn't get his own way despite the poll result. He appears to get flak quite frequently whether it's on here or at the previous AGMs. For those far-sighted individuals who want BK out, I'd be interested to know what did you do about it beyond posting on a website?

2. "Everton never will be a global brand and we will never have the amount of support that our neighbours have – that ship sailed a long long time ago and it ain't coming back."

I happen to disagree regarding aspiring to a global brand but accept it won't happen any time soon mainly as it is 19 years since we've won anything. Global brands are created on the back of success, our biggest chance of that being completely crushed along with 39 forgotten Juventus fans – an event arguably more relevant to this thread than BK. Alternatively, global brands are built on Chelsea / Man City style takeovers.

3. "Watch Everton, encourage the team, cheer the team but stop obsessing with what the other lot achieve or don't achieve – it's unhealthy and it does more harm than good to Everton FC."

Great. Agree with the first part of that. I just wonder how many endorsing that view today in the context of this thread have perennially slagged-off Osman, Hibbert, Naismith, Neville etc over the years? How is that supporting the team? In my opinion, far more people are more obsessed with slagging-off our own players week-in and week-out than "obsessing" with the RS. Maybe that is a more appropriate time to make a rallying call for team support.

The current "obsession" with the other lot relates to one particular match of which this thread is the main subject. I wouldn't describe my long term loathing of them as an obsession any more than I'm obsessed with Gary Glitter, Jimmy Savile or Mick Philpot et al. They just appear from time on the news and that's when loathing surfaces.

Finally, this obsessing (as you call it) with the RS, albeit in relation to one match, is not harmful to EFC. The RS winning the Prem will do far more harm to our profile, hence the focus on this coming match. Why? Because it would widen the divide even further. Global brand? We're barely a brand in our own city at present.

My "spot on" award goes to Phil Bellis (#278).

Everton have had a huge following in the States with our pre-season tours and Everton have a massive following in Australia thanks to Tim Cahill. I agree we're probably not the strongest global brand, but we definitely have one.

Agree with that 100%, Mike. It's massively divisive and self-defeating. They don't set out to make mistakes, play badly, whatever but it sure as fuck makes it worse when AN Other gobshite in the crowd starts berating the less-gifted players for the whole game.

I think Eugene's suggestion is prob. the way to approach the game, have a bet on us win so if we do win, we will have the consolation of winning a sum of money.
Downside, the Shite will prob. win the Prem!
Of course a draw pisses on the chips big time though, you lose the bet and scupper City, but as I say I think they will have too many guns for us.

I was speaking to a friend from New York on Sunday and he asked what team I support and when I said Everton, he said, "oh you have a guy on our National team don't you?", meaning Howard so people do know of us but in this instance only because of Tim Howard being American.

Another example - I just spent a month in South East Asia and nobody out there supports Everton, nor do you see much in the way of advertising for us. It's all Utd, Liverpool, Chelsea, City and Arsenal. This is much the same the world over.

Anyway, getting back on track.....I hope Liverpool win nothing. Ever.

I've seen Clive Thomas rob us, I've seen Emlyn Hughes sing "Liverpool are magic, Everton are tragic", I've seen Hansen rob us of a victory in the '84 League Cup Final, I've seen arguably one of the finest Everton teams denied a crack at the European Cup through no fault of their own.

I have seen a winning goal by Hutchison with the last kick of the game ruled out; I have seen a most biased Derby where kung fu kicks only picked up a yellow card, a yellow card changed to a red on advice of Stevie G; I've seen Lescott wrestled to the ground and get nothing; I've seen Geoff Nulty's career ended by Jimmy "Shithouse" Case.

I've seen the cry-arses having the rules changed to allow them to compete in the Champions League. I've seen the most cheating dispising player get away with it week after week and pick up the player of the year.

So the answer to your question is: I would rather have the snip without a local needle than help our neighbours lift the title and a summer of having to hear all the shite from our neighbours' fans.

I "now" want City to take the Premiership

I want Everton to qualify for CL next season

I do not see any of the above as being mutually exclusive

- remember my dad coming home from Maine Road in 1977 distraught, still is in fact
- Cases tackle on Nulty was my first Derby
- I was at the game in 1984 when Hansen robbed us. I later went on to work for his brother and had the opportunity to ask him about it. Bastard still denied it hit his arm
- I was thrown out of the Upper Bullens when Hutchinson’s goal was disallowed (trying to get to the ref)

On a more delicate and personal note, I had my nuts done a couple of years ago, all went wrong. I pretty much passed out after 2 hours of tugging and pulling when the Doctor said "is that it shall I cut it" - really would not recommend it, but would go through it again if it meant they do not win the league....

- remember my dad coming home from Maine Road in 1977 distraught, still is in fact
- Cases tackle on Nulty was my first Derby
- I was at the game in 1984 when Hansen robbed us. I later went on to work for his brother and had the opportunity to ask him about it. Bastard still denied it hit his arm
- I was thrown out of the Upper Bullens when Hutchinson’s goal was disallowed (trying to get to the ref)

On a more delicate and personal note, I had my nuts done a couple of years ago, all went wrong. I pretty much passed out after 2 hours of tugging and pulling when the Doctor said "is that it shall I cut it" - really would not recommend it, but would go through it again if it meant they do not win the league....

Don't be lulled to thinking all we have to do is turn up at Hull to get the points; this is their last home game of the season and they will want to put on a show for their fans so, if we throw the Man City game then get beat at Hull and end up missing out on Europe, who do we blame then?

The schism began in the ’70s when they started to win English and European titles. The arrogance and bitterness towards us became overwhelming. It got to a point that you couldn’t walk around town with anything blue on or get on a bus with an Everton scarf because the gobshites would give you endless abuse.

Yes, I’m bitter towards them and yes, I’m quite prepared to accept a Man City win. First, and last time, I will ever say this.

The only way for the game to be thrown is if one individual hates the rs so much that they give a goal or two away, or miss a chance or two, or both! Who, likely to be playing, hates the rs so much as to do that?

Either an Everton win to sign off our campaign at Goodison or a City win.

A draw does absolutely fuck all for us and basically hands the title to that lot on a plate.

It would be just like us to play out of our skins like we should have done against Palace when we had the opportunity to drive home the advantage for 4th.

As it is it's too late now for the Champions League so really I won't be losing too much sleep if we lose to City.

I don't particularly want us to lose, damn it I have never wanted us to lose.

I just don't want Liverpool winning the Premier League more if that makes any sense.?

Something tells me it's going to be a weekend of very little sense whatsoever.

As for anyone wanting us to win on Saturday, they want their marbles feeling. I don't know of one blue who wants us to win and believe me I know a few. The Champions League has gone so what difference does it make if we lose?

The league was taken out of their hands on Sunday with Chelsea's win. Lets hope it stays that way. They've had the victory parade before they've picked the cup up and boy am I going to wallow in that if they do miss out. Unfortunately I still think they will win it...

I don't know why but I think we could draw or beat Man City, our record is excellent against them at home. Let's hope it ends by 7:30 Saturday night. If Man City win, they'll lose or draw at Palace. If we win, they'll slaughter them. Fine lines... let's just hope our boys don't put us in for a miserable summer.

Mohammed @309 agreed; Ric Wee actually seeing the match will be one of two things I'll hold thumbs for re the City match. The other is that we graciously allow City to win. Hate the shite; love EFC!

Even the idea of that discussion tickles me, as does the idea of..um..someone..initiating it.

Imagine what it would ACTUALLY involve.

Cut to the players after a training session at Finch Farm as they sit around goosed.

Jags: "Be tough on Saturday"

No one responds.

Jags: "Just sayin' lads, be a hard game against City like"

Baines: (sly look at Distin) "Naah, be fine"

Distin smiles.

Jags: "What was that - that smile?"

Distin: "Ah can smaaaal eef ah waant, or eez eet aggenz ze low?"

Players all around the dressing room are sniggering

Jags looks puzzled.

Jags: "What....what is going on here?"

Baines: "Look lad, you've been out for a while and things have....'changed'"

The rest of the squad menacingly circle Jags.

Baines: "We're not winning on Saturday, we're losing - badly"

Jags: "WHAT!? But...WHY?"

Baines: "Why!? Coz it'll fuck 'them' up, THAT'S why?"

Jags: "You won't get away with it, I intend to play as well as I can"

Everyone laughs.

Baines: "Well then we'll lose REALLY fucking badly"

Jags: "I'm going to tell Los gafferos!"

Everyone looks at each other.

Jags opens the door but is immediately confronted by big Dunc who is 'coincidentally' right outside.

Dunc: "Whit's goan on wee man?"

Jags: "Duncan, they..um.. all say they're all going to throw the City game!!"

Dunc: "Ach they're only havin' a wee bit fun with ye, noo hoose that injury o' yours?"

Jags: "Er actually It feels fine, right as rai....what are you doi....AAAAAAAGGGHHHHH!!!!"

Baines turns to Stones and winks.

They leave the changies with the prone Jags writhing in agony.

Baines is the last to leave.

Baines: "By the way ball-bag, it was the bosses fucking idea"

We leave Jags alone on the floor.

Jags: "No...NO!....NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!"

Cue Eastenders end drums.

If we win, we hand the RS the title (practically). Gutting.
If we lose.. well, who really enjoys watching us lose, regardless of the situation.
A draw is the worst outcome.

I'm slightly ashamed to say I'm in the 'hope we lose' camp. The crown reaction to a goal for either side will be interesting to say the least.

Next season, our loss to City, should we lose, will be forgotten. Should we win and gift the shite the title, expect it for decades to be rolled out from that shower across the park.

Finally and its a big ask, Everton to be the first to win the Premier League — how that would hurt our neighbours? So, if it means an Everton loss, long term at least we will not have to hear about them winning the Premier League.

So there is not one person on this site who can say I am not a true blue because I want city to win on Saturday. A lot of us are saying we will accept defeat compared to other losses, and that is how I feel.

I haven't spent thousands of pounds over the years wanting us to lose, but I am quite willing to pay the £29 or whatever it is per game for a season ticket to watch us lose on Saturday, if it means stopping them bastards winning the title.

Every reason for not wanting them to win the title has already been qouted above, so I won't go through them again. However I particularly agree 100% with Colin glassar 305, about the troubles in the 70's, and Rick Tarleton, 300, re: the shankly and emlyn Hughes qoutes, because back then they were no bigger or smaller a club than us, not until they won the European cup in 1977 anyway. FFS it took them until 1965 to win the FA cup for the first time.

So yes, this Saturday is payback time, again for all reasons quoted above. And if they don't win it, it won't be because we lost against city, it will be because they weren't good enough. All this moaning about Chelsea parking "two buses". Well why the fuck didnt Rodgers tell his team to just sit in their own half and leave the ball on the centre spot, after all a draw in that game and the title was theirs!! Maybe Rodgers is not such a good manager as they think.

And don't give me all this shit about city could still blow it. Villa and west ham at home, I don't think so!!!

I was in a nightclub in Taunton one Thursday night in 1985 when Noticing three current / ex -Liverpool players there: Hughes, Souness & Fairclough. Birds around them like flies around... well exactly... On walking into the toilet, Hughes was there holding himself up against the toilet wall for all he was worth whilst taking a piss. I confronted him by repeating out loud what he said in '77.

At first, no response as he was only a few from being horizontal.. But them when he realised what I had said, the change from someone who was near on smashed to angry & sober was frightening...

He raced over whilst I was in mid flow and lifted me by the neck, and shoving me up the wall. Here I was 18 years of age being physically assaulted by one of them. He screamed at me repeatedly to "Leave it out son, I've had that thrown at me all my fucking life."

Not knowing what to do and hardly being able to breathe I just kept pissing on him as he had dragged me away from the wall whilst in mid flow... As he let go of me and put me down he still had not realised all the front of his light grey trousers were steamin'. You could say, just like him.

"I Misjudged the situation"
"What goes around......."

Where are my Oasis CDs?

Bitter? Me? Yep, as a feckin' lemon!!

Yeah, but Everton do pre-match sound-bites really well.
It's a relic of the Phil Neville era.

As Everton have most delightfully overachieved this season, I also believe the RS have too! The RS for the last few months have lived in la-la land when everything went right for them but they crashed to earth when the pressure was on against Chelsea.

You want another reason? That bloody 'Steua Bucharest 1986' flag, that sums them up, they are utter scum.

How can people from the same city be so different? Evertonians are class and dignity, Kopites are utter gobshites. I thank god every day I am a blue!

They had built coffins with the Everton crest on them.

If the result went against us, they were going to walk past Goodison with them...

Also, being an Evertonian from and still currently (and probably perpetually) living in Liverpool, I'm trying to console myself that Liverpool winning it might be good for the city. Also I sywped the word 'Evertonian', and the best predictive text could come back with was 'idiot'. Make of that what you will!

The red gobshites are contemptible and not a humble bone in their bodies. I can't believe they were already celebrating on Sunday, before the game! Then fighting outside Anfield, straight after, when reality had sunk in.

No, I won't be too disappointed if we lose and City go on to pip them at the post. Always liked Oasis anyhow. In a Champagne supernova...........sky........in a..........

Do you really really know what it will be like if that shower win it – bollocks to we are better than them blar blar blar. Get real – it will be hell.

I love this club with all my heart and have done for 40 years. I hope we lose; bitter – too right I am – to the core. I hate that club with passion, I want to stick two fingers up to them come Saturday evening.

For all those that have disagreed with me, I fully understand your comments and reasons for not wanting the Blues to lose on Saturday. But I'll put it another away: would you be happy with this ending to the season?

Liverpool win their two remaining games; Arsenal win one more game; Spurs win all their remaining games.; United win all their remaining games; we lose to City then beat Hull; City win their two remaining games. Chelsea? Doesn't matter if all above transpires.

My views regarding Europe are this: I do not want to enter the Champions League just to be unceremoniously dumped out in the first round. If we see new faces arrive in the summer (I'm fully expecting at least 5-6), with the World Cup taking place the chances are high that any transfer activity for us or any club will probably be towards the end of the window. Would our expanded team have had enough time to gel and tackle Europe's elite? I think not. That's why I would gladly settle for a sustained top 4 push and a decent run in the Europa league in 2014-15. We are rebuilding. It will only be RM's second season. I can live with that. And it will be successful.

What I'm trying to say is this, if all the other results go our way like I mentioned above, is a loss to City all that bad?

No, I don't really care what Liverpool FC do. But I do care about the way that their team and its supporters treat Everton. They are all coming out now and saying we are bitter. Ask any Liverpool fan about United's success, their public derision of the Failings of David Moyes. Oh, and remember the Wimbledon game? Do any of you seriously think they wanted anything other than for us to be relegated?

Again, just my thoughts. And to some of you who have posted saying I'm not an Evertonian for having these thoughts – I hate to disappoint you, but I am. My wife and two sons are the only things on this earth that matter to me more than Everton Football Club.

They better not as it would benefit that arrogant scum and project them ahead like that nightmare scenario in 2005 did.
Even if we lose every blue should know to keep their mouth shut until it finally is over because Gerrard scoring their 10th goal in injury time to win it, is not beyond the realms...

That's why I'd like a heavy defeat, goal difference and the joy from them knowing we were a complicit part in it would be absolute nectar, but only if Man City, or even better Chelsea win it. The 'slip' would also be career defining and would make me beyond happy in the way only Michael Thomas ever has.

Too many PC, namby pamby do gooders on here ... This "I don't care what Liverpool do" nonsense is doing my head in. I can't stand that shower. Even if we had a better chance of beating Arsenal to 4th, I'd still be desperate for the red s**te NOT to win a title ... Ever. I'd only want a win if it meant WE could pip them to the title.

The highlight of this weekend is to see off Bobby and the boys in total comfort. All three possible results give Blues fans some consolation, and that's the way I suggest Evertonians look at it. A rare consequence: free day out in the May sun.

Beating City is what is best for the team and the Club, so that is what I hope for. If I then have to put up with the crowing of the RS then so be it. I will be consoled by the fact that we will have proven that we have improved and can compete at the highest level and that ultimately they needed a bit of help from us to get the prize.

The Europa League offers the tangible rewards of a place in the Champions League for the winner, prize money approaching £10 million, high profile European ties and the associated matchday revenues, and the ability to attract players who want to appear on such a stage.

We can roll out the U21s for the early rounds of the domestic competitons to spread the effort around the squad.

Gerrard will be immortalised if they win the PL; if they don't then his legacy will be "that slip".

Think about that for a second and then ask yourself who you REALLY want to win on Saturday?

Everyone has their opinion, we can't ever get consensus on the best formation, or player for such-and-such a position, so why people become so entrenched in their views is beyond me.

Personally, I would take Europa as it gives us an opportunity to get experience for players, improve our co-efficient to try to get to a point where we aren't pitted against the favourites every round, and of course, from next season the winners, rightfully, will go into the CL.

But I also hope on Saturday we give our all, and go down to an unfortunate defeat. Ideally, a really controversial penalty in the 7th minute of injury time. If we at least look like we tried they couldn't accuse us of not? Of course they will. So let them seethe and complain about the injustice, with not a hint of irony.

And if anyone thinks that makes me less of a Blue, that's their opinion.

"Liverpool winning it would be good for the city"

In what way Kev?

Like most of the countries media!

Much better in my opinion to concentrate on the league. If playing in that comp. means risking more injuries, tiredness, staleness, forget it.

Plus the fact that RM has said we will need 6 more players, where's the transfer money going to come from, not to mention the new players wages.

We should be concentrating on quality next season not numbers.

If we get beat Saturday and then get beat at Hull (Jelly last minute) and Man Utd win all their games, we could end up 7th. So blueboys, if we do beat Man City and the Dark Side win the league, we can always say "We won it for ya!"

Anyhow palace might beat them Monday night, so who gives a shit about them? – We want to win!!

I wonder if that may change on saturday if West Ham beat Spurs and Man Utd fail to beat Sunderland - all before our late kick off.

Jesus, you don't make it easy do you?

And if Spurs and Man Utd win their remaining games (a high possibility) then both would overhaul us (Man Utd on goal difference) meaning we would finish 7th. 7th would mean we have gone backwards from last year!

Bill Kenright says in a media interview, "I hope we lose the Man City game. I have asked Roberto to see to it."

Martinez says in an interview that "we have trained all week, ready to lose it with some arrogance, and phenomenally."

The skipper says "I can't wait to lead the boys out again on that hallowed turf, ready to let Man City hit us with a sucker punch."

Doesn't sound too right, does it? We would have crucified any of them for the audacity to say something like this. But... It's okay, we are true fans. We can say what we like. The rest above are just employees. What do they know about supporting the great club?

For those of you who feel strongly and wished with all your heart that we lose the game to Man City, you are entitled to do that. Just stay at home and don't bother turning up at Goodison. The players don't need fans who are sending them conflicting messages.

"I scored from a late free-kick to beat Blackburn 2-1 at Anfield. I've never heard the Kop so quiet after a Liverpool goal, it was eerie. Everybody thought my goal had just handed the title to Manchester United, and it didn't sit quite right with the fans. On the pitch, we were fine with it. Our professional pride had kicked in and we wanted to win the game. End of."

Like many Everton fans now for Saturday, the Shite's fans wanted them to lose that game. But Redknapp's point about the players will be true of our team on Saturday.

Our player's won't go out and deliberately lose the game against Man City. However, if we do end up losing, then I won't be crying myself to sleep... but thousands of the Shite's fans will.

2) As regards those who don't, all of our views are irrelevant anyway. Do you think our manager, given the way he is, his character, as well as the sorts of comments he made at Anfield recently, could send out a team to do anything other than win?

3) Gerrard is going to screw it up for them anyway. It is written in the stars.

Two wins could give us 4th after all. I only wish Arsenal were playing before us. Redshite's are crowing about Everton having 20 million supporters on Saturday and 19,960,000 will be reds. Listening to shit like that makes me want to support City, but how can we while we're still in with a shout of 4th?

Aaaarrrghhhhh.

OK, (Sean is excluded) hands up who wants to see Stevie fuckin' Germ lift the title... at the start of single footy show on air FOREVER!!! I think I can see a way out of this.

I have never wanted Everton to lose a game in all the years I have supported them... but, on this occasion, I will make an exception.

I have given my season ticket away; I won't be watching any of it on TV, which in itself is sad, as I especially love going to the last home game of the season.

No-one can tell me I'am a bad supporter for wanting Man City to win. I love Everton with a passion and always will and will be back at the Old Lady next season being put through the mill. If anybody doesn't understand this decision, then they haven't supported us as long as I have. COYB.

Is there another ingredient we need to win the league. Several pairs of balls perhaps and a litre of luck.

Pity it wasn't us playing on Monday night. It would be great if Palace and the Barcodes beat them.

Watch the goal again. Redknapp has just curled a free kick into the top corner of the net in the very last minute of the game, and he says all the RS players remained professional. Bollocks!

In normal circumstances, they would have all been jumping all over each other and rolling on the floor, but no-one even went near Redknapp, just the occasional pat on the back and shake of the hand.

They believed they handed Man Utd the league and knew it.

Such as Denis Law's backheel against Man Utd sending them down or players who don't celebrate scoring against their old team.

And I mean the one's who really don't celebrate, not like Ronaldo who was all too aware of his 'big man' gesture of not celebrating at Old Trafford.

I recall being enthralled for a decade with the "beautiful game" - Hughes hoofs the ball to Toshack who knocks it down for Keegan to squeeze it in after two deflections.

It's 1000/1 that Arsenal won't pick up 2 points with their run in.

Let City have it!!

We'll beat Hull to finish 5th – they're thinking Wembley!

Great stepping stone this season – top 4 next

None of us WANT them to win the league, but that would not be wholly because of one result – it will because of all the games each team has played this season.

Where do people expect us to be aiming for in the league next season if we don't make it into the Europa League? Does anyone really expect the Board will provide funds for the reinforcements needed to go for Champions League qualification without the spur of expectation that will come from playing in Europe next season?

I've been going since around 1960, seen some great sides and some (well, loads) of average at best. I always want to see EFC at the top of the tree like we were in the early 60's and mid 80's.

This though, to me, is about the potential for that shower over the park to win the league. If Everton lose the game, it is less likely that the shower will win the league. Not impossible, it isn't a given but it lessens their chances. On the day, I'll be going and that is all I will be hoping for, well that we lose 4 3 in a brilliant game and we have no injuries.

So if that doesn't fit in with the friggin, self styled Inquisition, tough shit baby, as someone once said.

If Liverpool win the league, it will be down to the fact that the rest did not do enough.

The lads will give it their all, they will go at Man City and try and win the game. Unfortunately, City’s billions will count in the end and they will win 1-2. We will be proud of the lads but, despite the loss, we still have 5th place assured as both Spurs and Man Utd will have lost earlier on.

And our neighbours won’t be able to say a thing as they will draw with Palace to end their hopes of number 19....

Oh, and we will beat Hull 2-0 to finish on 72 points.

Don't cock this up, lads ... 4th is gone ... NO TITLE FOR THE SHITE must now be the priority.

It's not just the real immediate prospect of basically handing them the title but, more importantly, it's the disadvantage to Everton by them winning... in all aspects – ie, publicity, investment, media ignoring us even more, bragging, media love-ins, always in their shadow etc etc.

Sometimes, just occasionally, we have to look at the big picture of things...

We don't care what they say because they're a bunch of gobshites.

We care that they don't do well on the pitch as that is highly damaging to EFC when the Premier League title is at stake. (See above thread for details.)

I'd take that.

Mind you, part of me wants the rs to finish second on goal difference (of 1), therefore magnifying Stevie Me's highly amusing error against Chelski.

Memories of that night (was it '89?) when they lost 0-2 at Anfield to Arsenal. I was in a b&b in the Republic of Ireland and they almost called an exorcist given my cackling, demonic laughter when the final whistle went.

I don't know what you are on but that was a strange post.

It seems you've interpreted some fans wanting us to lose the Man City game as the board / management / players conspiring to throw the game? Then, in the completely non-existent scenario of EFC throwing the match, they announce it to the media.

Quite a leap that one. I haven't seen anyone seriously suggesting throwing the game - that would damage EFC as much as the RS winning the Premier League.

Completely ludicrous.

(I'd love to know just how many of those fans with the "get behind the team" message actually give dog's abuse to the likes of Osman every week.)

If only that were true. It does my head right in that even our club song is about another club.

So to all the Everton fans who will be happy to roll over for Man City in the hopes that it might help possibly prevent another club from maybe winning the league, may I remind you that your obligation at all times is to Everton and that Everton winning is more important to you than any other club winning or losing anything. It is in your contract. You don't care what they say.

May I also remind you that the stakes for Everton are anything between the glory of 4th and the ignomy of 7th-ish.

Your skin should be thick enough now to withstand anything that happens to any other team, even our neighbours winning the league.

So come on you (navy) blues, give us the show that we only know!

The only thing at risk if we beat Citeh and the RS capitalise and win the league is abunch of incredibly fragile egos who are apparently going to take the spite and venom from a bunch of gobshites to heart.

In case you haven't noticed they are going to finish ahead of us in the league anyway and that is enough for all the frustration of the last two years to be unleashed. It will take them all of two minutes to get over their disappointment at missing out on the league as (as far as they are concerned) they will be better placed to win it next year.

What damages us is getting beaten by Citeh and then losing to Hull because we run the risk of dropping places and missing out on a European competition that could give us greatly needed exposure and revenue.

When I compare Liverpool's form to Newcastle's, I think Liverpool could easily put 8 or 9 past the Geordies in Game 38.

Nightmare situation:
- Spurs scrape a win against West Ham in typical fashion
- A last minute goal against Sunderland from badge kisser
- We lose 1-0 or draw
- Man Utd win at Soton
- Spurs thrash Villa
- Hull beat us 1-0 with a last minute Jela goal
- Liverpool break Utd's record for most goals in a Prem game and win on GD given City's inferior firepower

Is that likely to happen? No, but it's sure as hell not impossible!

"please explain how the RS winning the title damages EFC?"

We're on post 400-something on this thread and a few of them were posted by me. No offence but I can't be arsed repeating previous posts. You're not alone in not getting it.

Jim #399 - I know! The differing views on here make me think it's going to be a funny old atmosphere at GP on Saturday.

If they won it it would project them forward like 2005 did. It would raise their profile even higher, increase revenue streams and attract and retain better players. They would become a major player again, but if City or Chelsea won it, nothing would change for us relative to them.

So, apart from the very obvious emotional and logical reasons as a blue to despise everything about them, there are clear football business reasons too.

However, reading through many posts, it DOES seem quite a few are completely terrified/paranoid of getting shit off their fans if they happen to win it.

Fucking hell, we've been getting shit off them for god knows how many years no matter if they are winning things or not, it's all water off a ducks back for me.

Personally I'll be doing what I always do when they win anything...ignore it totally.

It would rile the element of our support who are obsessed with them, not me though.

Mind you, somebody on the Monday football thread ie two days ago, asked if anybody had any thoughts on the fact that we could help Liverpool by beating City. Like, duh.......

What I do care about is the damage to EFC that a rs Premier League win will do.

Some people just can't see the big picture.

They want to win the small battle but lose the war.

The real point is not a few paranoid fans. It is the fact that we will see that club take off again on a massive wave of media frenzy and fanfares. I couldn't give a Tinkers toss about what the fans of that club say about us. I would, however, be aghast to see another bloody Coronation.

It is not, again, NOT about them, it is about that fucking club.

Ste is absolutely right - we have been taking stick from their fans for years and having gone to school on Merseyside I well remember having to go in on a Monday after losing to them and having to put up with their comments but at the end of the day it is words and they can't hurt us!

Who the hell cares if they manage to win and do a bit of crowing?I hate them having been an avid blue since 1963 and having had to suffer their success for far too long but would I ever want my beloved blues to lose ANY game??

Absolutely no way - we know we are a better club.a nicer club and our future is looking good.Don't bother your heads about that shower but always want the best for our club and our team.What will you do on Saturday if we take the lead - put your heads in hands and groan,or cheer with that rush of adrenalin we all get when the ball hits the net?What if City score - will you jump up and down and cheer with pleasure?

Man up and follow Ste's lead on this - he is right!!

We have ballsed up a top 4 finish so what difference does it make? Man City need a nice comfortable win to help me sleep soundly at night.

I am away at the weekend for a stag with a gang of lads, most of which are reds, and I’d love for us to be able to laugh as they support our beloved Blues for once whilst begging for a favour only to be let down. Call it sick but I’d love to see Stevie G cry again. ;-)

I didn't see that but would have needed a large brandy to ease the pain if I had!

I'm not going to contribute to this thread beyond today.

I'm giving the match a miss and think I'll walk up a big hill in Wales or somewhere when the match is on. I'll just look at the score when I get in. My nerves can't take this.

I'm hoping for the best for EFC. In my view that is we lose to City - enabling them to win the Prem. We beat Hull providing a platform to greater and greater success for EFC.

At the risk of being accused of being "obsessed", the rs peak at 2nd and then they tailspin into oblivion.

It's not about the crowing, Dave. Who cares about that? It's about ......

...... no, I can't be arsed.

No one likes it, but the bottom line is they are streets ahead of us anyway in terms of money, fanbase, profile etc.

Us poor deluded, untesticled, un men, have had the temerity to say what we feel about damage this could do to our club . We have had all the way through this thread, people pontificating about others reasons for approaching this match in particular.

We don't need to "Man Up" (what a stupid bloody Americanism is that|) We've said what we have said because (nope, I'm wrong, I can't speak for others) I've said what I've said because I believe it is in our best interests.

Man down!

FFS.

(I'm off to bed and off this thread before the men in white coats are called.)

'kin hell.

The missus came home tonight after doing a bit of shopping and said ' I can't get away from the football, I overheard two guys stacking the shelves having a right go at each other.'

Superb.

>And yes it is a bit if a blow that it’s the RS! Not because of their club, their apparent god Stephanie G that could do no wrong. Or even that bucked toothed, diving, Hannibal Lector wannabe that scores their goals. It’s their bloody supporters.

My family is 50/50 but I was born a Blue, like my dad! I don’t get up to merseyside as often as I would like as I am in the navy and based down south. Every red I have come across down here in the last 4 weeks I’d say, have thought it’s been sewn up for them and now it’s great watching them squirm. Because at the end of the day red fans are bloody intolerable! Fact! I would like to see them fail.

But I think it would be good for the league if someone other than bloody Manure, City or Chelsea won it. Especially as it proves that success comes with the money. And yes I know that Liverpool have spent a considerable amount. But nowhere near as much as those two. Even Dani Alves is quoted saying "I didn’t realise until about five years ago that Manchester had two teams". So I would rather the RS won as it’s best for the league.

But in reality. I just want Everton to finish as best as they can. Get fourth if the meerkat lookalikes Gunners slip up at all. They are due a loss. If not, claim fifth. Win the Europa League, which we have a good enough team for, and qualify for CL that way. COYB. Everton to win!

That explains how it benefits them but not how it damages us. We don't compete with them as it is anyway so it won't significantly affect us. They haven't won the title since 1989 so it should be obvious to everyone that the only really important thing is qualifying for the Champions League, which they will do anyway.

So they have already done enough to retain their star player, can attract more top players, and will also have more money and a higher profile when they are playing in Europe. Winning the title would only marginally increase these factors in practical terms, whereas for us dropping out the European places could remove any real pressure on our Board to invest in players.

I ask the question again (and hope for a better answer) - how does our winning on Saturday damage EFC?

COYSB (the S is for 'Sky' obviously).

Whatever the result on Saturday, there will be a positive spin for us – you can't say that very often can you?

Win – We secure 5th spot, Europa League football, and a fantastic season.
Draw – We secure 6th spot, finish ahead of Man Utd and guarantee European football.
Lose - We "assist" City's push for EPL and hopefully dent RS's chances. We still have the last game to secure 6th (maybe 5th depending on Spurs result).

So, sit back and relax and sing "Que Sera, Sera"...

They win the title and we will finish 5th – they get lots of good stuff but we get more good stuff than we have now because we have raised our profile and are competing in Europe.

They come second and we finish 7th – they still get 99% of the good stuff because the media love them already, but we get nothing except further disappointment and a 'chokers' tag.

I am afraid I trust my 'figures' more than yours, gents, which is why I don't believe we are automatically better off losing on Saturday.

To change the subject, I live on a street where there are only 2 houses. My house is a nice three-bed semi-detached, just like my neighbour's house. The houses were both priced at £100k.

Then he won the lottery and I didn't.

We are both the same two houses on the street but he's extended his house to six bedrooms and has a conservatory, a carp pond, and a landscaped garden. He also can afford to pay someone to mow his lawn every week so it looks like a snooker table. Mine's got some dog shit on it but still......

Then he won another lottery.... Jammy get.

I just can't understand why everyone stops to look at his house. Film stars, investors ...

No worries – I can still have a brew while watching Coronation Street if I turn the volume up to hide the sound of his regular parties. It's what I've always enjoyed ... So what's the difference?

...... No I can't be arsed with this....

If we can stop them from winning the League Title by losing to Man City on Saturday, is that really so bad?

At the same time you are happy for us to risk losing a lesser prize that could still pay for 'important renovations'.

It really doesn't make sense to me, unless you are happy to live in a shack while your neighbour continues to improve his pad (but has to get slightly cheaper slate for his roof).

I sincerely hope we get beat on Saturday.

Sorry to disappoint some people but war is a place where men lay on battlefields dying, calling out for their mothers as life slowly fades away. The other one is a game where men (including me) jump up and down and pull stupid faces depending on if they win or lose — now we’ve got that sorted out.

Come Saturday, it seems like there’s gonna be three camps of Blues watching the match: those who want Everton to win regardless of the league outcome; those who would like Everton to win.... but, if they lose, they’ll have a wry smile on their faces; and the last group who actively want the boys to get beat.

Well, I belong in the first group; must be careful who I say that to though... I don’t want to sound all righteous, especially with the abundance of fragile egos on this thread. You could even say I could slip into the second group but never, ever into the third... Damn, there I go again, being all holier than thou...

Nope, come Saturday, I’ll be hoping we thump Man City because I’m on the Bobby Train, this train I believe is going to take me places I haven’t been for a long long time. See, if we beat City and there is still a chance of 4th, a slim chance but still a chance, if The Arse get beat or even draw then the last game of the season will test your drinking prowess.

So, if Liverpool win the league, yes accept a barrage of abuse, media fawning, and God knows what — big fuckin deal. I Lived in Liverpool in the '60s, '70s and '80s when the fuckers won everything and I can safely say all the Blues I knew didn’t give a fuck. We are EVERTONIANS — it doesn’t matter how good or bad we do, no kopite will ever be able to lace my boots.

That fucks their heads up more than anything,they think we should have folded years ago,yet here we are MILLIONS of us still here,amused by their antics, as Mr Labone said "One Evertonian is worth 50,000 kopite wools" or something like that.
So come saturday I hope we can all cheer the boys on,dream that 4th is still on,jump aboard Bobbys train and never ever worry what some non-match going,woolyback,plastic flag waving GLEE auditionee kopite says-WE ARE EVERTONIANS-BORN, NOT MANUFACTURED.

"Man up" is a stupid American phrase. Usually used by men who are the least confrontational in everyday life, in my experience.

"Namby-pamby, hoity-toity, blues and reds together, we need Europe, it will be good for the City, we owe it to the game, it’s over 38 games anyway, I’ve got family who are reds,everyone will think us small-time, who cares if Liverpool win it I’m a blue not a red, the players need to be professional, I don’t live in the City so I don’t understand the hatred..." SHITE!’

There, I feel better now!

I have lived away from Liverpool for ten years now, but my dislike for all things red has not subsided in the slightest. Each to their own and all that, but I find it staggering that some Everton fans would object to us dropping one irrelevant place to stop those insufferable gobshites winning the league.

I am not even safe from their bullshit here in Dubai. I had Standard Chartered contact me offering a free Liverpool shirt in celebration of their valiant title tilt if I opened up a savings account with them!!

The way Rodgers goes on you would think he took over Jossy’s Giants. The prick has spent nearly £100m and inherited the best striker in the world!

I live away from Liverpool now, but the mere thought of Suarez biting his medal in comedy fashion and Rodgers and his minging tart lapping up the applause on the victory bus leaves me cold. Bitter? Absolutely. I would rather watch a rerun of the royal wedding in its entirety with Sue Boyle sat on my chopper than having to go through the unthinkable.

We shouldn’t be debating whether we want City to win, rather the tactics we adopt to minimise the risk of us winning. A formation similar to the Palace game should see us right. We obviously want our players to try as hard as they possibly can, but ensure their valiant efforts are constrained sufficiently by the formation.

Consider how that could also cause us to lose 5th place in the final reckoning. To lose precious prize money for the club, and possibly a chance to compete in Europe (assuming both Spurs and Man Utd overtake us), just because we want the Reds not to possibly win the title...

I can’t see how that is good for the club, or how that makes us fans who wants Nil Satis Nisi Optimum for the club.

As has been noted at the start of the thread if we do get that win, and I think its in us to grab it, and the RS start gobbing off about their first title in decades, for the rest of time, we get to have a little grin and say "yeah...but we gave it you". I can only speak from personal experience, my kid brothers a red, and he's hating the fact that they might only get the title if we deliver it for them.

I want the team to win, and I will have no problems cheering on at Goodison, shouting myself hoarse, hoist any banners to cheer them on.

If you are of the persuasion that you want the team to lose, I am wondering if you see yourself doing the following at Goodison, shouting yourself hoarse to ask the team to lose, give away cheap goals and unfurl a banner saying "COYB! Lose the game tonite! Let’s be having yer"

If that sounds incredulous/ ridiculous/embarrassing (bearing in mind the game is also broadcast to millions worldwide), then it probably is.

Perhaps a few Nigerians will desert Man Utd or Chelsea to be 'lifelong' RS fans....until they decide to be lifelong Real fans a few weeks later. It means nothing apart from local bragging rights....and they don't have those because we had to give them their title and they'll never get away from that.

Some don't have much interaction with Liverpool fans on a day-to-day basis so aren't too bothered who wins the league. Others like myself are surrounded by them daily, especially in the workplace. Listening to the smug arrogance that they spout along with the contempt they have for our club leads me to think that I would prefer to drag my ballbag a mile over broken glass than to watch Gerrard lift that trophy.

It doesn't really matter about 5th or 6th place this season. Every Evertonian wanted Champions League and the alternatives are basically shit no matter what way you look at it.

"Everton couldn't fill a new stadium; you don't want Champions League, it would be too expensive; Barry and Lakaku will want to play for the big sides in Europe next season " etc etc etc ...

This from a shower of shite that's finished below us for two years... And probably only has Gerrard in the team who last played a Champions League game for Liverpool!!

Sorry but Man City for me on Saturday!!

A) if we lose against Citteh on Saturday and then win against Hull, we won't move up or down from where we are anyway.

B) If we win on Saturday and then against Hull...we won't move up or down from where we are anyway (probably unless Arsenal don't actually turn up for their remaining two matches)

C) If we draw on Saturday then win against Hull we won't move up or down from where we are anyway

D) If we draw on Saturday and draw/lose against Hull we may fall down the table.

I don't mind A but B & C could give them hairy ball bags the title so I don't want that and if it's D, we don't deserve to be in Europe anyway.

Throwing this match is morally right!

The Champions League is a 100-1 shot. We may already have qualified for the Europa League before the game if Spurs lose or Man Utd draw but, even if they don't, we only need a point at Hull to qualify. We have nothing to gain if we win or draw, whereas if we lose, Man City will almost certainly win the title given their two remaining easy home games. So, the RS would have another false dawn and Gerrard will always be remembered as the man who lost them the title. Perfect! I don't want us to throw the game – just to play well and lose.

"I always felt the relationship between the two clubs [Everton and Liverpool] in the city has had incredible chapters and this would be another fascinating chapter."

Which as we all know, is a neutral romantic's view. I don't even think he is being tactful. I actually think that's how he see things between the clubs.

We long time sufferers know that this 'relationship' actually means being done over and treated like shit by that scum and their sycophants in the media and the football governing bodies at every opportunity.

He also says;

"There is no doubt of our integrity – we want to win every game we go into."

Wouldn't it be great if he followed it with..."unlike their integrity" à la versus Chelsea to deny Man Utd the title! Nothing said at the time, but we knew.

Just watch the reaction and comment if we lose and lose heavily to Man City.

Fucking hypocrites.

www.soccersouls.com/2014/05/liverpool-everton-is-david-Moyes-about-to-have-the-last-laugh/

especially the second last paragraph. they disgust me.

I would love the redshite season to be defined by Gerrard’s "Bambi" moment. Therefore I won’t be upset if Everton lose but still proud if Everton give it a proper go and win.

I couldn’t go to the game and actively support City. I would suggest anyone thinking of doing so would be better applauding the Everton team as they get off the bus for giving us some of the best football we have seen for a while and then giving your ticket to a City fan if you can find one without a ticket.

Kopites are indeed – Gobshites

I suppose you don't care where we finish as long as we beat the RS... Sad.

Get a fucking grip, the RS win the league, so what...?

After all the shit we've been through for nearly 25 years, there are fans actually condoning a defeat to help a rival...

So, say it happens and Arsenal lose their last two games and we would have finished fourth, you'll be on here saying "shit if only we'd beaten City"

I thought we were moving on from the Moyes mediocre glass ceiling bullshit brainwashing capitulation ideas... I hope you are all sharpening your new shiny knives ready for the next gunfight.

Dropping one place does have consequences as it guarantees less prize money and means an extra qualifying round before the Europa League proper. As that potentially damages next season for us why would it not bother me?

Dropping two places pretty much undoes all the good work done this season and makes us less likely to have investment in players and a reduced ability to attract them.

I have been defending my contention that we should go all out for a win against Man City when it is the holders of the opposing view who should feel guilty.

One thing we can all be sure of is that none of our players will be giving less that 100% in the cause and anyone who is praying for anything else has very confused priorities indeed.

Financially and profile wise they are back at the top of the tree and the media will probably have them installed as favourites for next season no matter what.

The best (only) way to minimise the damage and the gap between us is for us to get into Europe and do well, and that is not best served by losing to City.

1) Clive Thomas;

2) Alan Hansen's handball;

3) Emlyn Hughes;

4) Heysel;

5) The coffin the RS had at Villa Park;

6) Running on the Wembley pitch immediately after Hillsborough;

7) the Bucharest banner on Sunday;

8) Michael Owen on BT Sport;

9) Clattenberg

10) Stevie Me's and Rafa's 'little club' taunts.

So come on, Blues... cheer us on but hope City win. Fuckin kopites... I hate 'em.

More than we don't want the RS to be champions we don't want to have to go to Hull needing a point to ensure we get a European reward for this seasons efforts.

Despite his arrogance, I will be at Goodison on Saturday looking for an Everton win. Let the other lot shoot themselves in the foot as that will give me greater pleasure than Everton losing and them lot still taking the League.

I see Rooney is putting his tuppence in already he wants Giggs not the Dutch chap as he doesn’t like his strict methods.

I bet Baines is thanking his lucky stars every day he didn’t go to MU.

If Liverpool win they win it will be a one-off.

Erm.....you might care to check out who won the League in 1963-64. Though for quiz buffs, there was something very unusual about that season in both English and Scottish First Divisions. Answers on a postcard.

I don't think we owe it to the league or anyone else for that matter. We should just want to win any game we play in. If that hands the title to them lousy red bastards then I'm afraid it's just the way the cookie crumbles.

I'm still hopeful of 'Option C' where we win our last two games, come fourth and Liverpool lose their remaining games and the title.

We should now be aiming for 75 points, 5th as a minimum and a great finish to the season. I want the lads to go out with all guns blazing and another victory against a top side.

If we do end up with a defeat, I won’t be as upset as usual - fair enough?

As to our final placing this season, our chances of getting 4th spot are next to nothing. No way Arsenal will not win one of their remaining 2 fixtures, both against easy opponents. That leaves us with the Europa League. In my opinion, if we cannot get into CL position, better to be out of this competition. Little money in it (unless we win it thus getting a CL ticket, but chances are very slim, almost non-existent), and it just comes in the way of a good run in the PL). Unfortunately we will be there anyway even after losing to City, and we are going to regret it next year (no chance we’ll have a big enough squad for good runs in Europa League and the PL together).

On Saturday for the first time in my life (and I hope the last), I will keep my fingers crossed for our opponents’ win.

The only people that really matter are the players that take to the field on Saturday, and as professionals they will be trying their damnest to win the game. It’s in their nature, no professional likes to lose.

I played Saturday and Sunday football for about 15 years and hated losing.

It sounds like it’s going to be a team consisting of ToffeeWebbers going to play against city on Saturday and we are going to throw the game.

So time for a bit of fun. Let’s pick a team from TW to play city and get absolutely thrashed 100-0. I played in goal when playing so baggsie I go in goal.

Anybody else fancy a game?

I nominate Harold as manager - a man who normally speaks sense (but on Saturday will have to talk poo for a change).

The thought of the RS winning the league fills me with dread.
So just for once I will be hoping we lose.

No, not fair enough. If the RS clinch the title, it’s going to be a day of mourning for me – a great tragedy, since it will have severe repercussions on our club. The RS missing out on the title is 100 times more important than us finishing with 72 points instead of 75. And we’ll be in Europe in any case (not that I think the Europa League is worth participating – it will have adverse effects on our league performances and position).

We can’t be seen looking shagged out even before kick off as we prepare to lose the biggest game in the shites recent history.

What do you think the PFL will think?

Despite what I’ve written on here, it doesn’t sit well with me wanting us to lose. Then again, I know what the potential alternative might be like.

I understand the differing views on here even if I don’t agree. However, I really don’t get how any Evertonian between the ages of 9 and 90 can think of the RS as anything but total and utter gobshites. Even demonising the petrodollar clubs’ big spending to ’justify’ them the title is twisted to my way of thinking. It terrifies me that such people are loose in society.

Regardless of what happens at the weekend, I hope this season:

We somehow qualify for the CL.
We finish ahead of Man Utd / Spurs.
The RS do NOT win the league. (I don’t care how as long as they don’t.)

And does anyone remember 1969 when we played Leeds at Goodison near the end of the season. 59,000 there including hordes of Reds. Leeds and Liverpool close rivals for the title. I remember thinking it would be OK for us to lose this one though my Dad was having none of it. We drew 0-0 which I think helped Leeds. They were champs, Liverpool 2nd and we were 3rd and because of that ridiculous one-club, one-city rule didn’t even get into Europe. I think Newcastle, who finished 11th, did and they won the Fairs Cup the following year.

I’ve been going to goodison regularly for 44 years and I’ve never ever wanted Everton to lose the toss, never mind a game. Well, I’m afraid on Saturday I do... and if that upsets anyone, I really couldn’t give a flying one. When have they ever done us a favour? Exactly.

You wrote "and if it’s D, we don’t deserve to be in Europe anyway." having previously written "D) If we draw on Saturday and draw/lose against Hull we may fall down the table."

The same goes for your stance on the Europa League. It is only your opinion that it will be more trouble than it is worth. For me and a lot of others it actually represents a good opportunity for the club if handled right and your pontificating without any supportive data is not enough to change my mind about that.

Next time you give the ultimate insult to Evertonians who simply don’t share your opinion I hope you get the appropriate sanction from the site administrators.

Having been brought up with two brothers who support the RS and hearing how fantastic they’ve been this season, I just want to see their smug faces when the screw it up.

Lawro’s predictions / telling comment:

What this City team experienced in 2012, when they beat QPR with two stoppage-time goals to win the title on goal difference, will help them this time around. I do not see them letting it slip away now.

It means bugger all but, for once, I hope he’s right.
He’s predicting City will win 0-2 and that Palace will get a draw.

Evertons players are profesionals under contract and with this being Mr Martinez first season they are playing for their future at the club.

Man City may be favourites with Barry missing and Evertons injury list but this is one game that I will not scream and yell at Everton players if the do not play well.

On another topic supporters who think the Europa cup is a Micky Mouse tournament---why cant English teams ca get past the quarter finals .Benfica v Sevilla looks a good final to me.

As the song says, we don’t care what the RS say. This is about Everton.

We want to finish as high as we can and beat everyone we can (including the money bags elite). We want to show the world (and investors) how good we are. We have just started the journey with Roberto and we should not be dropping our standards, we should be raising them. Let’s finish off the season well and especially our last home game.

We’ll deal with the RS next season.

Forget the RS we need to go and win the game and if we play at our best and get beat then so be it..But if we rollover without any effort, then I won’t be happy and I will be the first person to moan at RM!!!

For me this isn’t about football, it’s about a team that sold their soul to the devil (Suarez) in order to try and win a league under any circumstances.

I am old enough to remember the coffins with Everton badges they had ready to bring out if we lost to Wimbledon in 93-94, and I also remember them all wearing Blackburn shirts on the last day in 95. I remember the deathly silence at Anfield that greeted Redknapp’s free-kick in that game in the last minute when they thought they had gifted Man Utd the title, only to find that Man Utd had lost as well so it didn’t matter.

So, when we get trounced on Saturday, I for one will be doing the Poznan on every City goal around my living room.

As the saying goes, they are outraged by everything and ashamed of nothing. Don’t let me down, Everton...

Everyone wanting us to lose seems to think we will lose on purpose and throw the game. That’s the impression I get anyway.

Sorry but ain’t going to happen as professional pride will kick in and our players work be trying their hardest to win. As I said its in their nature to want to win.

So sorry Brent and Derek Thomas, guess our dreams have been dashed and we will have to take our usual seat in the stands. Besides seeing as there was only 3 of us interested I think we would have well an truly got tonked!!!!!

Ideally it would be 3-3 after 90 minutes and oh dear Man City score in injury time to fook Liverpool’s title chances. Oh dear what a shame.

I actually think we’ll take at least a point from Man City and hand the title back to Liverpool. I won’t like it but you can’t expect Roberto to tell the lads to lose on purpose.

That’s why we can’t chance it and had better lose... I would find it really hard to love Everton the same if our actions directly win them a first Premier League title. To be winners we have to ensure they’re losers in this situation.

The whole thing has historic potential one way or the other, and for once I want to be on the gloating side. Don’t underestimate how big this is Everton, FFS.

Too true. For me I would rather see us finish 17th than the RS win the EPL but as you say, the players will decide what emotions me and my fellow blues will feel.

However, I have it on good authority that RM will break out a BBQ, in his own coaching area, serving steak and salad butties to all out field players - it’s his way of saying thank you for a wonderful season. I’m guessing that the City players will be too busy trying putting the ball into our net rather than get a taste of that yummy cuisine. Oh, and apparently Stella’s & wine will also be available, well why not?

Also, RM’s idea of having deck chairs put around the centre spot so our players can take a seat whilst they are laughing at the replay’s of Stevie’s G’s big slip (on the corner screen) is fucking sound.

Could be a big score for City. Oh well, am I a fucking bitter - never!!!!!!

Getting well and truly tonked might have been ok. But rules is rules - 3 is too few to start a game. Where are the courageous TWebbers when you need them? All talk and no action!

Just the first two or three would do for me.

Being 53, over the hill and having abused my body most of my life i’m nowhere near match fit.

Can I be Steve Round please. I am good at drawing stick men and looking fucking clueless.

7) the Bucharest banner on Sunday; I’ve seen this before and it sums them up. One of the Manc websites had a piece on it a while back (my wife is Man Utd).
therepublikofmancunia.com/liverpool-scum-steaua-bucuresti-1986/

The site administrator should sanction you, not me, with your self-righteous indulgence. Who are you to preach me and all the others who don’t share your pro RS-obsession?

Since for some unknown reason you are so obsessed about our club cooperating with the RS, I will answer you once and for all:

Of course I hoped originally that I won’t be seeing the RS return to Champions League football. However, this is much less damaging and not as meaningful as long as they’ll finish 2nd or 3rd.

After all, they participated already twice (maybe even 3 times – I can’t remember) in the CL since their regrettable win in 2005. Did it help them in the Premier League? Not much. Winning the PL brings much more attention, draws more investment from franchise, attracts big stars and will cause more following for the RS in and around Liverpool and also internationally.

Just participating in the CL doesn’t guarantee much. I expect the RS not to fare too well next year, as long as they don’t win the PL. They will find it hard to compete on both fronts, and (as long as they’re not winning the PL) their status inside England will not change much.

As to my stance on the Europa League – how did participating in this competition advance our club interests in becoming a major force in the English PL, let alone becoming a recognized, formidable force globally?

Participation in the Europa League generates tiny sums of money compared to the CL. It’s no more that a consolation price for the teams dropping out of the CL ( and one of those dropouts usually wins the competition to get the prize of being in the CL the following year.

On the other hand, the need for a big and talented squad to compete on both fronts drains the resources of clubs with deep pockets like us. You don’t have to go far to see what happened to English clubs’ performances and standing in the PL while participating in this competition... Should I name some?

Finally, in the country where I live, I doubt whether there are more than a handful of Evertonians. I don’t think you’ll find enough of us to fill a bus. The RS have a massive following, including their own site, package deals for RS PL games etc. Most of this following originates in the seventies when those supporters were kids & identified with the most successful English club at the time.

This happened all over the world. In the past two decades, other clubs lowered the attention around the RS, like Chelsea, the Mancs etc. I dread to think what’s going to happen if the RS are ever to return to their heyday of those years. Their first step is winning the PL. This must be avoided.

I can shout, point the finger and am good with sound bites. I can’t pass the ball further than 5 yards and Tim Cahill would probably think I dress like a school teacher.

Can I be Phil Neville please?

# Dave #505 - very funny.

Nicholas #512 - I think more than a few tackles would be flying in on "the actor" from our own TW players.

"TW team to be set up permanently", reports Sky Sports. Season tickets on sale now (and new ground announcement expected this afternoon).

This has been meant to be "a development year" if you remember. We are on the way from the Moyes years into the Martinez epoch. Allowing for that, I expect to see us all trying to win everything we can. I’m sure that’s what the manager intends. Come on, now... there’s still 6 points to be won.

I don’t like Liverpool but rooting against Everton just to spite Liverpool seems irrational and petty. Hatred and anger is the way to the Dark Side. Don’t give in.

COYB!

I live in Dublin and in a building of 200 employees I am the only Toffee but there are at least 6 Reds that I know of. Two of my brothers are Reds also. You wouldn’t believe how much in the past month they have been trying to lick my arse and say they really hope we get 4th place.

I knew back then that the Man City game could prove interesting but probably hoped back then Man City would be top already and us fighting for 4th. But these pathetic RS fans have been sucking up to me about 4th hoping that I have some fucking influence now to persuade Roberto to win this game and allow them to win the league. If you heard them grovelling and almost pleading with me, you would so laugh.

I am also a GAA fan and I know what it’s like when your neighbouring county beats you in a big match or they win the All Ireland title and your county lose out. So I am TOTALLY behind all ye who want us to LOSE this weekend. I am a realist first and, even though I was at the Arsenal game and loved every minute of it, I don’t think we are even close to competing in Europe yet. Yes, I know getting there encourages other good players to come or to stay with us but we gotta learn to walk before we can run.

We will beat Hull in the last game of the season cos they will be safe and in no way care about that game. Yes, Roberto will send his team out to win but the players themselves totally know what it means to themselves and the fans if they let the RS win the league, so of course they will never admit it, but I bet you Lukaku and Co will not be busting a gut on Saturday afternoon.

For all of you saying it’s a disgrace for us to be talking about this, then it’s easy for you then to be an Everton fan without Reds laughing in your face every time we play. How did you all feel after the Anfield game? Did you know any Liverpool fans after that game? They so look down their noses at us and think we’re pathetic so why the hell should we do them a favour an encourage that behaviour even more. You’re being VERY naïve if you think that it doesn’t matter.

As it has been said numerous times on here, our best team in the last 50 years were denied the chance to play and maybe even win the European Cup thanks to the RS and their fans. Will we ever get the chance again? God knows. But I for one am sick of watching them winning trophies and almost feeling sorry for us.

Stand up and be counted for your team and stop being such a wet drip and a goodie two-shoes. If we win on Saturday, ye should go down your local pub on Monday night to listen to the Reds fans and what they are chanting or talking about. Then you might just change your mind.

C’mon City!!!

How does the song go again? "We don’t care what the red shite say!"

You repeat your assertion that winning the title is significantly more beneficial to the RS than Champions League qualification without providing any proof to back it up. Unfortunate that I have to repeat this, but it is only your OPINION and has no greater merit than the opposing one.

The seeding the qualifying clubs get is based on previous European performances not their finishing position in their domestic competition so they get zero benefit in that regard.
There is absolutely no evidence that the RS will get more investment if they win the title rather than finishing 2nd or 3rd. United only sacked Moyes because they were dubious as to whether he could get them back into the Champions League not because he lost them the title. Arsenal have been happy for years with not spending the sums required to really challenge for the title because financially it is largely immaterial whether you finish 1st or 4th as long as you qualify for the group stages of the Champions League - it is only their fans who have become restless with the lack of silverware.

You dismiss the Europa League based on how it was set up originally and our own previous performances. You have not taken into account the following factors:

1) The competition has been improved to increase the financial rewards.
2) We have a different manager this time who is both willing and able to use his squad fully and in the most appropriate way depending on the club priorities (I would play the U21s in the early rounds of the domestic cup competitions for starters).
3) No European competition will limit the type of player we can attract in the close season.
4) Without European competition the Board will feel much less pressure to strengthen the squad, probably being satisfied to replace like with 'like' and hope it all works out as well as it has this season.
5) No European competition means no chances for rocking evening games against high profile European clubs, enabling us to promote the club further.

Putting aside the extra revenue from TV, merchandising, advertising and gate receipts, if you haven't experienced a rocking Goodison on a European night then you can have very little idea of the boost they can provide for players and fans alike.

Your 'nightmare scenario' is pure speculation prompted by paranoia fuelled by hatred, mine is based on reasonable observations that most football fans would recognise and readily accept. I am not self-righteous, I just find your argument lacking in substance and have asked you to justify it with more than conjecture.

And I would add

6) away day piss up in foreign climes

COYB

We will beat Hull in the last game of the season cos they will be safe and in no way care about that game. Yes, Roberto will send his team out to win but the players themselves totally know what it means to themselves and the fans if they let the RS win the league, so of course they will never admit it, but I bet you Lukaku and Co will not be busting a gut on Saturday afternoon."

I too consider myself a realist Brian, but I cannot agree with a single assertion you have made in the piece of your post I have cut and pasted.

No Europe means no real pressure on the Board (which means you are effectively waiting on a billionaire to come along and change things). I would rather we take the tangible opportunity presented by the Europa League and see if we can make it work for us.

Hull will be relaxed but competitive for the reasons you have stated, Long and Jelavic (especially) are both cup-tied and will be looking to finish the season in the best possible fashion. Our players will be tense, anxious and jittery.

I can only presume you have not mixed much with elite sportsmen if you make such assumptions about their outlook, and the last I saw of the TW poll on the subject (if it can be considered representative) you are not talking for the majority of fans.

I seriously cannot stand even the idea of watching that gobshite Steven Gerard lift the title. Much less seeing how happy all those gloating RS supporters will be.

It's bad enough I have to hear about their brand new state-of-the-art Stadium everyday; don't think I can handle a Premier League crown too.

My loathing for that lot is deep rooted from childhood before I moved down South, I started watching us in 1980, so imagine what it was like for them few years before we started to compete with them again. I just cannot stand the thought of them winning again, all the bullshit, the media, no way. We all know a gloating gobshite kopite, I know several, including my boss who has deliberately planned a visit to my patch the three days after the final round of games to rub my nose in it (made before the Chelsea game - I think he is having second thoughts).

Fourth is gone and to be honest, I couldn't give too hoots about the Europa League.

Call me what you like, I don't care, I will drive four hours in the morning hoping Everton lose.

Further afield it may be more of a factor, but those kids wouldn't be choosing Everton anyway so no, that doesn't damage Everton either.

Sponsors do not only invest in the title winners, as since the advent of the Champions League even the 4th placed team can end up winning the biggest club honour in Europe (the world?).

What can significantly change matters is Everton doing better in a way the kids can relate to, ie winning games that are shown on TV and that attract plaudits form the pundits.

The self-pitying wall-pushers demonstrated a complete lack of integrity (yet again) when, led by Gerrard's helpful 'back-pass,' they gift-wrapped the Premier League title to Chelsea, at Man Utd's expense, in 2010.

We are different. We will demonstrate this by approaching the game like it were the first match of the season. Our ethics are primarily to ourselves, to our heritage, reputation and to the sport itself.

We are bigger than parochial match-throwing.

Whoever wins the title, wins the title, period.

While there is still a chance we can finish 4th - long shot I know - of course I want us to win. However gutted you will feel if Liverpool win the league, I will feel more gutted if Arsenal lose their next 2 games and we've given City an easy ride just to stop our rivals winning the league.

We should all focus on Everton, and the great season we have had. Even if the worst does happen, the easy response is that they couldn't win it without our help.

Losing (at home) to City just confirms to the masses that we are in a lower tier.

From your vantage point you think all is happy now because a 'majority' are voting for Everton not too lose tomorrow?

I find it amazing that 40 per cent of votes DO want Everton to lose. That's a staggering statistic for me at any rate.

The sort of comfortable tone in your post is quite frankly also staggering.

532 Posted 02/05/2014 at 18:31:37
Funny that with the TW poll just asking a yes or no-- I guess its for people who do not wish to write a comment, the majority are voting for a Everton not to loose..

That quote is the beginning of the narrative of football in this country for the next twenty years if that shower are handed the title. And I do mean "handed". How Skirtel, Flannigan and Suarez don't get sent off almost every game is a mystery. And I'm not even going to get started on the referee allowing Gerrard to smash his opposite number in the first 15 minutes of most games and not even getting a talking to.

The media have spent all season slagging us off over our loans but, strangely, this week they're all saying we should be allowed to play Barry against City. Add to that the relentless pressure being put on our club in the media to question our integrity if we don't win on Saturday. They've also tried to elevate a long ball team into 1970's Brazil. And I'm sick of it.

Please Everton, for the 39, for the Anfield residents, for Dave whelen's neice, for Evra, for Coventry city, for the good of competition and the Corinthian spirit... let City win

Here's a bold prediction for you all, within 5 years they'll be relegated. Something is rotten in Denmark because I have NEVER seen a team get so many favourable decisions in one season. When it's uncovered, heads will roll left right and centre.

Yes, we have been hurt by their past actions and the media bias, and my own feelings have been fluctuating all week. Ultimately though I want us to win regardless.

If the worst happens and they win the title I will belittle their achievements due to volume of penalties won, rat boy would make an excellent ballet dancer, Clattenberg is a red and many others factors.

But mainly I would be dismissive and do my best to ignore it

Remember Hughes and his "crazy" insult to Everton, when many Evertonians had turned out in the City Centre to congratulate him and his teammates in May 1977;

Remember the going down parties being prepared by RS in the week before Wimbledon 1994 and those that had started 20 minutes into the game;

Remember Heysel and the ban;

Remember Benitez' small team jibe.

Any Evertonian left that wants them to win the League has my admiration because you are clearly destined for sainthood.

I've never met a RS who shows anything other than vested self interest; as a group they are the most odious fanbase in the Country.

For the past four weeks leading up to last week any of them I know have patronisingly told me that we will get fourth (the unsaid statement being that they would, of course get 1st). Well for the past week I've told them they may get 3rd so well done, you are punching above your weight, that would be a great season for you etc etc.

If Everton win tomorrow I wont be a happy bunny. Give that lot nothing. Mark my words, we win or draw, your RS acquaintances will be taking the piss out of you within 30 seconds of the final whistle. And the truth is, you know it.

Come on City. Please don't fuck it up again.

I don't object to us being in the Europa League next year. I just don't think it promotes our club any further, and in case the board cannot give Martinez substantial sums for investment, it will hurt us in the PL, which should be our main focus.

And I just don't think it is an excuse to let the RS off the hook by crowning them Champions, especially that we are almost guaranteed a place in this competition anyway. It would have been different if we didn't screw it last Saturday – the CL is a different story.

You also state that "Losing (at home) to City just confirms to the masses that we are in a lower tier". Did losing to Chelsea at home last week confirm to the masses that the RS are in a lower tier ? Complete nonsense.

For fooks sake!!!! No one wants them to win ANYTHING! This is an occasion where what is potentially best for us is also best for them; that actually applies whenever we took points off a team that could potentially finish above them.

"I've never met a RS who shows anything other than vested self-interest; as a group, they are the most odious fanbase in the Country." – And for that reason we should think and act just like they would?!?!?

Personally I don't give a shit if Liverpool win the league; after years of conditioning, I sort of got used to it, I have learnt to cope. Obviously my defence mechanisms are a little rusty but they were reawakened in 2005.

I want us to win tomorrow regardless of any other result because in the long run it's what we have to keep doing. If that means they win the league well ultimately they deserve it, there I've gone and said it again.

Do you really think they give a flying fuck about what we or any other team think of themselves?

They have a "win at any cost" mentality and are driven by their own self-importance. They will take the piss out of us unmercifully if we turn City over and make their stupid self-righteous banners for the next derby.

What was the quote in The Guardian: "always blameless, repentant for nothing"... or words to that effect.

I hope we crash and burn tomorrow and Palace get a result, a draw will do. No apologies at all for this post either.

I detest them with my very being.

God bless you. Yes, tomorrow, I think like them.

Well said Sir.

Sorry just got in from a scouting mission. Been round a few pubs after work looking for blues who fancy a game tomorrow.

Actually been on a 40th but don't tell kenwright that, or I may be sacked.

Anyway it seems nobody else fancies a game, so unless city fancy a game of 5-a-side, we're fucked!!

Brent, unless Harold shows up in quick time, then I was going to suggest Mr P. Walling as manager, but as the game is now only less than 24 hours away, and we haven't heard from him for nearly a week, I think we are reaching desperation stakes.

Guess it's down to Bobby M and the boys!!!

Maybe the financial gulf WILL 'increase further', but the financial gulf between the two clubs was already absolutely fucking vast and we still finished above them last year.

And the year before that as well. (And that was with miserable ollies in charge in charge of us.)

Sorry but all this 'if this happens, that will happen' is pure drive-yourself-nuts guesswork.

http://entertainment.guardianoffers.co.uk/i-cc-1053/shankly-g/

Now they want OUR HELP.

Because of Liverpool fans I seem to remember Everton and English football being suspended from Europe when we had the team.

I've ofter heard it said, "What goes around, comes around".

I think Harold put on his suit to go and see Sir Alex.

My TW

Walling Keepers are always a bit out there

Entwistle
Brady. Left Back specialist
Lloyd
Kenrick

Sorheim My favourite
Hoare
Marsh
Ferry. Left wing obviously

Daley. Our two most creative players up front
Ruane

Beat that!

And how come the editors get a game? They should be banned - they 're always giving it out.

I sent you on loan to Yeovil, maybe next year

Do you think the Premier league will think we have and give us a points deduction for the start of next season?

Rob, Graham has come to the rescue. TW team picked and ready to (sort of) go.

Who nominated Graham as manager?

I will be knocking on his door and demanding a transfer midweek. Bloody hell, 2 days loyal service and this is the thanks you get!!!

Not for me it's not though because I feel that we are going to get The Europa Lge whatever happens at Goodison Park tomorrow. I can accept Liverpool winning the league, however much I don't want them to, I just don't want Everton to help them? Eugene each to his own mate but why would you want us to win this game five-nil? My seven-year-old nephew/ godson wants to wear his City kit tomorrow and he doesn't even know them cunts have ever even won a European Cup!

Never trust a chairman's backing for a manager in times of trouble!!

In that case I resign, scrap the TW 11, with a 100% record of "played 0, won 0, drew 0, lost 0, scored 0, conceded 0 and points 0"

COYB!!!!!

No- but I think they'll get significantly more if they win it.

I have to disagree a little about the team.

(Using the good old days 1-11 numbers as this seems appropriate)

1 Harold Matthews - not as agile these days - a bit Dad's Army - but nothing better than an experienced pair of safe hands at the back – controls his box well and will let his defenders know that he is there – needs to work on crosses but eight decades of attrition have not helped

2 Peter Mills – youngish – a good sort of right back in the Steve Finian mode – good crosser of the ball and his dead ball acumen is second to none

3 Dick Brady/Brody or whoever he is depending on the time of day - needs to come good on his obsession with left backs and this might well be the game for him –

4 Ross Edwards – angry, young, all his parts work, fire in his belly, always ready to take an opponent on – good height on him will compensate for the shortness of Ray Roche – it will be good to have a teenager in the team to choose some trendy hits for us to listen to – will wear big fck off headphones when arriving at stadium

5 Ray Roche – a tad risky this one and again a little Dad's Army but this seasoned observer of Labone is a good fit for the centre of defence where his experience will be a great help to his young defensive partner

6 Jimmy Sorheim – the hardman of the team – tough in the tackle – a little tubby it's true but can close the opponent's midfield down if he stays on the pitch for the full 90.

7 Phil Sammon – has to be on the right wing and shows no fears when crossing picket lines – has a good turn of pace - his Rooneyesque hair transplant has done his confidence the world of good

8 Will Leaf – "Inchy"! – faster than a sperm on a mission – tricky – his balls rarely go astray and arguably the fittest (in the sense of fitness not hotness) player on the team since the operation

9 Kevin Tully – very much in the tradition of the great EFC number 9s – 6 foot/3 inches – powerful build – good touch for a big fella and a fox in the box – will lead the line in the best traditions of that term if sober

10 Sam Hoare – tucked inside the hole behind the #9 – great in holes and no-one better getting into boxes – so long as he gets over his groin strain from his most recent celebrity sexfest

11 Paul Ferry OBE – the first name on the team sheet – the flair man of the team often likened to Peter "nightclub" Marinello – pacey, racey, and tasty – a Bobby Dazzler on the left who can change a game in a heartbeat (witness the scissors kick in the redcafe match) – his flamboyant lifestyle off the pitch is matched by his luxurious skill and touch on the pitch – the heartthrob of the team and a truly great all round fella with all his charity work to boot – sex on legs as the female fanbase often quip

Subs

Richard Dodd – not been playing for a while but a dependable pair of hands – argues a lot in the dressing room and can be bad for team morale but it's between the sticks where it matters

Nick Entwhistle – not reliable enough to be named in the starting 11 – only comes on these boards sporadically – might well be painting and decorating

Ian Burns – would have been in the starting eleven but it's a late kick off and might not able to keep his hands off his Bombay Sapphire so a spell on the bench with plenty of coffee and water will get him ready if Sorheim gets yet another red card

Graham Mockford – still capable of putting in a good 20 minutes as we saw in the Bluekipper game – what he lacks in pace he makes up with his reading of the game in this the twilight of his career – now that the criminal charges are behind him he might be a good addition to the coaching staff

Eugene Raune – controversial and many fans will be baying for his inclusion from the start – but he can be best as an impact sub I believe – can be risky with all his back chatting to referees but a lovable rogue for all that who still knows where the net is in this his sixth decade

Jamie Barlow – confounded the critics with his late winter run of form and unlucky since then with his wisdom teeth – almost back to his best and his acid tongue can destroy opponents never mind his turn of pace

However, if we would have taken 3 points at Anfield (dream on) and not lost the plot in certain games then we would not be having this debate.

As much as I hate the RS — AND I DO, I think you have all lost the plot. City are way better than us and are back in some form, so what makes you think we can beat them any way?

Obsessing about Liverpool is just what they want. Go and drown your sorrows and blame the RS for this or that. Or get behind your team who ever plays 100% and be PROUD.

I suppose in a perfect world we would win both, Arsenal, Chelsea, MU and the RS would all lose their remaining games and we would get 4th and no title for them.

No, take that back in a perfect world we would have won our 100th title in a row and they would be in the 2nd division, about to be relegated down to the conference.

But its not a perfect world, so lets go for Peters' suggestion...

If you raise it up a level and that wins them the league, then somebody, actually that entire team, are going to be pariahs for eternity and laughed at and mocked by the redshite for the rest of our lives.

It's not a joke and it would happen....could you imagine gobshites buying our players a beer decades from now as a thank you for their first Premier League?... It would be my worst nightmare, then again, I'm a lifelong Evertonian.

Feel sorry for Rob Halligan. No mention of him after he suggested the idea. And no place for me? I refuse to go out on loan!

How will you feel if Liverpool dominate again for the next 5 years just cos we 'let them' win it.
WAKE UP FOLKS

Honestly, I just don't understand how people would be happy to sacrifice a positive end to a very positive season for us just so that the RS don't win the title. This idea that not getting fourth place means that the season is now over for us doesn't make sense to me. The idea that fifth is no different to seventh, I don't care anymore doesn't make sense to me either. Nailing down fifth place shows everyone that while we didn't have enough to take fourth, we didn't just lie down and revert back to type. We actually kept going all the way to the end of the season. We kept up the positive approach and the new way of doing things this season all the way to the end.

I don't want to give the media or the RS any more ammunition than they already have had in recent years. But even if us getting a result today helps the RS win the title, the football world will still have to give us the credit that we have deserved this season. They have been already all season, a good result today will see that continue.

You say that Liverpool are our biggest rivals? To me it looks like Arsenal & Spurs, are our biggest threat.

My opinion hasn't changed since I knew the importance of this game. I always want Everton to win and always will, regardless of how it will affect other teams.

FFS

This thread has open my eyes about the priorities of so many of our supporters. It's as though they see no further than how we finish in relation to our neighbours - regardless of all else.

And just so you know, I write that as someone who was born, schooled and works in this great City of ours!

Shame on so many of you.

How do you draw fat overweight stick men ? I've got the looking clueless off to a tee and can even throw in a gormless look every now and again.

I've invested £1.69p in a pad, pencils, rubber and sharpener.

It ends with 'Now stop being so fucking bitter and get 3 pts against City.'

It will be some game today alright.

Had too many let downs regarding Everton over the years so one more won't hurt.

Fuck it I'm off to wetherspoons in Liverpool. Me transfer request is in the post!!!!

BUT I'm an Evertonian through and through. It's about who we are and what we do. I want my team to win every game.

My 2 cousins are both rabid reds, good sound lads who go home and away. Proper fans just like me and mine. This week they have continually said that we will lose to City because we don't have the mental strength to cope with Liverpool being successful. Whilst my first inclination was to tell them to fuck off, I didn't.

Like many of us who have been going for donkey's years (40 years a season ticket holder and counting), I've never enjoyed hearing that 'Grand Old Team' song. It's so fuckin small time - We don't care what the red shite say what the fuck do we care?. Well there's obviously a lot on here who do. Many of you are consumed by your hatred of them and it's simply irrational.

If you are an Everton supporter you should be wanting us to win and confirm 5th spot . We need to be back in European football to attract better players. Our squad is good in quality but lacking in depth.

If Liverpool win the league then just get over it. The league is about 38 games not us v City.

My cousin Rob (a sensible bloke) responded when I said to him you'll be gutted if you finish 2nd to City, said that if they do it's still a great season for them. It was all about them getting in the top 4 places and going from 7th to 2nd in 1 jump with guaranteed CL Group stage games next season is their major prize. That's what many fools on here are missing.

Winning the PL is a dream for them as is getting into the CL places is for us.

If we lose to City then we go down with all guns blazing and not bending over. We have class, dignity and integrity and a manager who will take us far. Let's make that first step tonight.

What a bunch of tarts we appear to have these days.

As much as I'd love NOTHING more than Liverpool to lose the title in the cruelest way possible, if they win it, they win it, and..that'll be that.

"YEAHBUTTHEGLOATINGHEYSELMURDERSCLATTENBURGCOFFINSONSCOTTIEMEDIABIAS..."

Fucking behave, it's not the Hindenburg bursting into flames - "OH THE HYOOOMANIDDY!"

Someone even whined about their kids taking stick if Liverpool win.

Well yeah, they WILL - and? (what are they made of, China?)

You're an Evertonian - you root for Everton and hope Liverpool lose, that's the 'deal'

Doesn't work out the way you want - tough.

I blame American telly for much of the above hysteria and carry-on, the likes of Opra in particular.

Opra: (handing tissue to weeping middle-aged man in blue scarf) "After Palace got their third, did you feel...violated?"

Much of what I'm reading is people saying "I can't deal with the idea of things not going exactly my way. I won't deal with...do you hear me - WON'T!"

Advice, support YOUR team and see what happens.

"YEAHBUTTHEY..."

Shut up.

The reasons are well documented why we might hate Liverpool. Heysel and the damage the European ban did to us is the most tangible of these as far as I'm concerned, but call me soft if you like, I really don't want to hate them. I've mostly failed in this over the years as they've just been so hate-able, but at least this season they've been good at football. I like football, and I appreciate when it is done well, so I've hated the Rodgers Liverpool this season far less than I've hated the mediocre, we-deserve-more-just-for-being-Liverpool teams of the last 10-15 years.

None of that is my main point though, its just a bit of background to how I feel. My main point is this: wanting your own team to lose in order to spite Liverpool is bitter, petty and small-minded and represents, quite literally, a loser's mentality.

Do I want Everton and its fans to be bitter, petty, small-minded losers? No, I don't. I want my team to win every game it ever plays. Given the focus on this match, the discussions raised in the media this week and the alarming sentiments of 41% of my fellow ToffeeWebbers (according to the current poll figures on the homepage) I want to win this game more than ever. This game has become a litmus test of who we are as a club. This game for me will define who we are.

I know Martinez and the players will give it everything, and I know that might not be enough because City are a hell of a team and need the points to win the title, but if any of the fans inside the stadium echo the 41% and let our club down, I will feel pain, misery and shame in a way I've never felt about being an Everton fan.

Today is our chance to show the world who we are. Who are we?

No, I'm not calling 'Evertonians' a bunch of tarts, I am however calling the ones BEHAVING like a bunch of tarts, a bunch of tarts.

(tart!)

"We regret..." or "Unfortunately..."

COYB today and I hope we take Man City apart, and I hope all Evertonians are behind their team in that aim! Those who aren't need to question their loyalty to the club.

See, when we get 4th, I'd just like to know who I'm buying a pint for, hate to waste my money.

That was the response I'd expect of a precious 12-year-old brat.

So I'll provide my standard reply in similar situations.

Whatever.
(Yawns, walks away ...)

We have as stated by many suffered enough at their hands and a lot of it wrongly IMO. As long as we lose fairly then all is well in my world.

I would call the "I don't care if Liverpool win the title brigade" tarts. What has happened to rivalry? A kopite once said to me that was happy for Everton to banned from Europe because he thought we would win the European Cup and he wanted only Liverpool in this city to have that honour.

It seems to some we have to ignore their attitude toward us and behave like an abused wife who cannot leave her husband. Keep ignoring the slappings and put downs and it will eventually go away.

This city is football mad and the rivalry is what makes it so special, the teams and fans are so intrinsically linked because of the way the two teams were founded off the back of one another.

I do not want them to win the title and if that makes me a tart then so fucking be it.

Our rivalry is quite different to others, so I thought anyway; lots of families have both Blues and Reds in them, how close we are was shown in our Hillsborough tributes.

Yeah, when we play them I want to take them apart, and yes it is incredibly annoying to hear a gobshite spouting off about their team, but I'd rather see them rather than Man City or Chelsea win it. It doesn't affect us who wins it so, in all honesty, who really cares?

And to ask for us to lose against anyone in any situation is just treason: you should be banned from the stadium from here on in.

Matthew #614 - FFS, see #613.

You're on your own with that one

http://therepublikofmancunia.com/liverpool-scum-steaua-bucuresti-1986/

Some attacking line up that. John Daley and Eugene Ruane together upfront? Good enough to win the league on their own. Not sure about that defence though.

Now we can sit back, and pray City win their last two games. If Liverpool lose against Place, we will be in dreamland. Cant WAIT or next season!

My feelings exactly.
Thanks for an excellent article. I bet you did not expect over six hundred posts when you wrote it.

I think you opened up a can-of-worms which went beyond the stadium debate a few years ago. Much of the debate was heated but adult / civil in nature. One or two, in my opinion, revealed themselves through their lack of class.

In no particular order, this is what I learned this week:-

1. Evertonians are a diverse and passionate group of people.
2. "Nil Satis Nisi Optimum" can mean different things to different people.
3. Points 1 and 2 elevate us as a fan base relative to our loathsome neighbours as we don't all sing the same tune or hold five fingers up.
4. Not everyone understands the word, "obsession" as it was misused numerous times.
5. To my shock, some Blues actually wanted the rs to win the Premiership (keeps tight-lipped to avoid upsetting all within earshot).
6. Some Blues bet on the rs to win the Premiership (for me, a stomach-turning thought).
7. Some people misinterpreted some fans not wanting an Everton win as "throwing" the game. It's not the same thing. Everton FC are a cut above in the integrity stakes. The fans' wishes have little if any bearing on the outcome.
8. Having viewed some post-match websites, kopites are even bigger gobshites than I originally thought.
9. And so are a large proportion of the media.

I am guessing that for a sizeable number of Evertonians', whether they admit it or not, their sentiments were represented in the word used in your title, "dilemma".

It certainly was and I don't want another like it for a long, long time.

Onwards and upwards.

LOL it wasn't even an article, I posted a reply on another thread (as my first post on ToffeeWeb) and the mods deemed it worthy of its own thread. I guess they were right; and no, I was never expecting over 600 posts.

I felt pretty strongly about this. I'm as much and Evertonian as everyone else here but I really can not stand LFC. I knew 4th was out of our reach really and now it has all panned out that way, I bet every single ToffeeWeber (ha, is that even a word?) is with me praying for the same outcome of the title race.

By the way, your thread revealed that NOT every single ToffeeWebber is praying for the same outcome of the title race. Some want the rs to win it (scroll though your thread) and some even have money on them. Shocking!

Brian - I'd hang fire there on Monday.

I reckon there could still be a few twists and turns. Remember the rs have a deal with the devil so it's not over until it's mathematically over. And even then they'll probably try and work something dodgy.

I'm waiting until the season is over and the outcome is as we wish before I get the smug grin out and play Z Cars on a continuous loop.

If Man City do win it, I can't wait to see the expression on Gerrard's face. But like I said ......

Yeah mate, I just went back and looked through all the posts. I can't believe some want LFC to win the title. Our neighbors, great for the city etc etc. The endless gloating and rubbing it in the noses of Evertonians can not be good for the city in my mind, we are part of that city also.

"You'll feel hollow about that pretty soon. Everton will never win anything while this obsession with the redshite persists. It's the club's whole reason of existence."

He was responding to a comment I made online about being pleased, as an Evertonian, that we lost to Man City.

I just do not understand the fans of Liverpool Football Club.