Blues domination but no penetration

Barry is the disappointment for me, Gibson or Lennon should play ahead of him. If it was Lennon then Barkley could play in the middle. Gibson may not be ready for a full 90 away at the Emirates and may be a planned substitution in the second half, which makes it fairly believable and a reasonable idea.

I do like McCarthy, Besic and Barry though.

As much as I would prefer Gibson in the side after his last 2 performances, I expected him to be benched today.

I imagine with so little game time in the last 2 years he needs to be carefully managed and with the glut of fixtures we now have I donÂ’t expect him to start every game, as much as we need the crispness and vision of his passing.

I appreciate Naismith scores some important goals, but his limited creativity that high up the pitch holds us back, in my opinion. When Gibson is fully fit he should blatantly be one of the first names down, he is the only one in the squad with the ability to hit pin point accurate first touch passes, it helps speed up our play.

ItÂ’s also a big confidence boost for Garbutt. I hope he takes his chance.

If weÂ’re still in it at about 60 mins, would like to see Gibson on for a couple of rapier like passes through to Rom, or Mirallas for the winner!!!!

I am a firm believer in playing your best team at all times. Take your points, and move on to the next match. But our resident genius has other ideas on everything. Hence the reason we are in 14th position. How bloody phenomenal is that?

Baines will be back in the team as soon as he is fit. It doesnÂ’t matter how well Garbutt plays. Ask Robles. Martinez is so predictable in his clueless team selections and tactics. Anyhow, despite all that, IÂ’m ever the optimist. I expect that we might concede a goal. We always do with Tim Howard in goal. But Arsenal are at this present time "a little shaky". We could, barring mistakes, get a result here today. Time for Lukaku, Barkley or Mirallas to step up... COYBs.

Of course I want Everton to win at all times. But I would take a draw in this match. Move on to Stoke City. That is a game if approached positively. I would expect Everton to win. No more sloppy performances. No more mistakes.

No more false dawns. LetÂ’s make this a good week for all Evertonians.

Unless he changes something at half time, hears hoping.

Arsenal are here for the taking and were 1.0 down through a lack of concentration, I hope we can turn it round in the second half but itÂ’s got 2 or 3.0 written all over it:(

We need something from this game, letÂ’s up the pace and incisiveness and bring on Gibson for Barry (though presumably itÂ’ll be Besic) sooner rather than later. IÂ’d also be looking to get Lennon on for Mirallas unless Kevin ups his game pronto. Still think weÂ’ve got a real chance here if only we go for it.

Would someone please point out to Martinez that WBA and C.Palace both won yesterday. We are now in 14th position. This clown needs to realise that we will not be playing a Swiss team every week.

Yet another false dawn. I like everyone else thought that after the YBs game, that maybe, just maybe we might start showing some consistency. Forty-five minutes to turn this around. I will be keeping everything crossed. It might help.

Have Barkley or Mirallas touched the ball. Get Naismith and Gibson on now. It isnÂ’t rocked science. COYBs.

This season has been a shambles and itÂ’s down to one man: Martinez. IÂ’m not holding my breath for a comeback.

I thought we started well and kept them quiet. But gradually all the short passing in our own half (including the keeper) was starting to annoy me. The mounting possession stats in our favour is surely becoming an omen of doom.

Not sure if anyone was really to blame for the goal, though Stones will be disappointed. Our issue now is creating chances to score. Lukaku continues to frustrate. Can excite and frustrate in equal measure.

The three-man defensive midfield needs to be dumped, surely Gibson to come in. We can still get something here but we need to show some resilience, which has been plenty lacking this season.

It is about time that the likes of Barkley and one of the other midfielders took it upon themselves to shoot, we are so punchless it is embarrassing.

RM will say we still have the last quarter of the season to come good and 40 points was always our priority.

Good night all the lights are going out.

I donÂ’t enjoy us losing though, and if we donÂ’t get anything from the Britannia in midweek there is no question that weÂ’re in a relegation battle.

What a pile of absolute garbage Martinez is producing. HeÂ’s destroyed the entire side, and can only get them up for the frigging Europa pot.

Seething.

Gibson on at 83 minutes? Ludicrous. IÂ’ve defended Barkley more than most but he was shocking today. IÂ’m afraid itÂ’s also time that people stopped regarding Stones as the next Bobby Moore, he really isnÂ’t.

WeÂ’re still in the shit, oh yes we are.

Make as many varied comments as youÂ’d like . . . . . . . . . but thatÂ’s a damning statistic!

The football is pretty dire and, although it looks pretty, itÂ’s totally ineffective. Lose at Stoke and we can call a taxi.

Our position in the Premier League is under threat. Neville might just be the man for the job.

I canÂ’t see us reaching 40 points this season. Just got to hope the teams below us donÂ’t pick up.

Surely heÂ’s got to go now at the end of the season. DonÂ’t see how anybody can now defend Martinez.

So much possession, so little to show for it. The score line flattered them, two Arsenal supporters at work, looking forward to next week! Roll on next season, where ever we are?!

Neville saying that Martinez wants to play a certain way of playing but the players do not. So are we as supporters wrong? We have been complaining about this for months.

And to see this with this great squad, it adds to the overall pity.

Besides that, we are relegation material waiting to happen. This manager and his tactics have to go now or weÂ’re fucked.

God, weÂ’re depressing. I wanted Martinez to go after WBA but itÂ’s too late now and weÂ’re stuck with him for the season. May God help us because Roberto surely wonÂ’t. We are very fortunate that Villa, Hull and Burnley lost yesterday.

I thought again, team selection could have been more appropriate for this game, although there were a couple who did give some hope, Garbutt being one.

I didnÂ’t think Arsenal were that great either, but then again, they didnÂ’t have to be. I have always thought Roberto would eventually become a good Manager, but on the recent performances in the Prem, I am reviewing the situation.

I donÂ’t like to single players out, but thought Barkley was very poor, and has been for the past few games.

The lack of energy and desire by Barkley was beyond belief and the fact he remained on the field was even more remarkable. Not many of us thought they could win today but the way we lost defies logic, and Martinez will remain in charge until this season reaches itÂ’s conclusion.

IÂ’ve never felt more depressed following Everton in my life.

Never in my 40 years a blue have I called for a manager to be dismissed; this one needs to be sent packing. We are in the shit.

What kind of manager spunks our entire budget on a black Brett Angell, whoÂ’s middle name must be "Offside"? And first name should be "Fucking"?

Who brings on Lennon with no-one in the team with the vision to find him with a pass.

Who couldnÂ’t see that Barkley was struggling? Or Howard is past it?

It must be time for that Catalan Clown to get in the taxi.

But tough shit, Â’cos two goals shipped in an away defeat is the final result.

The EPL has only 38 games and today a real "bore draw" would have been more productive, but it didnÂ’t happen.......and the clock ticks.

Everton FC are now in the "Points are Priority Zone", style is entirely unimportant.

Scrappy shitty 3 points grabbed at pistol point, like "Dycke Turnippe", crabby bore draw points gained as stadia snooze close to death are essential, but "stylish well meant performances" which yield pundits approval but fuckall else............sadly the time for style has DIED.

Get wise, get dirty and get a dozen points !

WE ARE DOOMED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It's fine to keep the ball as we did if we were two up, but not at 0-0. The whole attitude is wrong from the first minute, and it can't go on.

It's all down to the manager to instil some urgency into our play and motivate the players. Clearly, he is failing on both counts.

The crux of the problem is that teams know how to nullify us now. That won't change, and Roberto won't change, so unless we win the Europa and are playing Champions league next season. I can't see how Roberto will be managing us next season.

I still think Roberto is a really good manager but I think he'll have a lot more success coaching a team in Spain, France or Italy, where his style of play will be more conducive. I'm still not worried about relegation based on today's performance but this will change in midweek if we don't get anything from Stoke.

Btw, I was very impressed with Garbutt. The sooner we see him and Baines in the same side, the better.

My best years are behind me and I feel so sorry for our young support. We are plumbing the depths and that lot across the park look, well, a bloody good side. I can see the state of affairs that existed from the mid-70s to the mid-80s resurfacing where we become the laughing stock in the city. And no-one at the club seems to give a monkey's!

I normally like to watch every minute when Everton are playing, but that was more predictable than the Titanic movie.

I read an article today where Martinez, was talking about defensive managers being parasites, and he might have a point. But today's game was too slow, which is equally as boring, and even worse to watch.

Confidence might be an issue, but when we have played in Europe, we look like we are trying to score, when we attack. I'm not always sure this has been the case in the League, and this is the main reason it is so frustrating watching Everton play this season.

Stoke is massive now, and even if we win, those last ten fixtures make really worrying reading.

That accepts by implication that his style is not conducive to the EPL. In which case he should know that and be able and willing to change it. But he can't see it, or can't change or won't change. Take your pick – but whatever it is means he ain't a really good manager.

Villa will get points under the new manager and we have tricky games away to QPR and Villa with home games against Burnley and Sunderland from the relegation pack. Our PL form is abysmal and if it continues we will be relying on the failings of others to keep our top-flight place.

Make the change, Billy, because we can not afford to gamble with our future by being loyal to one person, however pleasant he may be.

We are not good enough and haven't been all season. Even when we have actually taken the lead we have thrown points away. Martinez has lost the dressing room and is losing the crowd. I never want us to go out of any competition but I think Europa is not only a distraction but is keeping the manager in his job.

The Dear Leader needs to sort this. "He had me at Champions League" looks pretty sick at the moment and for the foreseeable future.

Between Kenwright and Martinez they are taking this Club down and out. Of all seasons, the prize for staying in the EPL next season is the greatest and we will miss out. That alone should have Kenwright reaching for the hotline to the taxi firm.

Even if we are lucky enough to survive, it's time up for RM at the end of the season. We need to start again with a manager who has a clue. And before anyone asks, "Like who?", I have no idea – but it ain't RM so move on.

The 2014-15 season will go down in history as a complete and utter shambles.

When Mirallas was taken off, a player with the potential to turn a game, I realised we were fucked.

How many games have we failed to score in since the start of December?

I don't think I can put up with another season of Martinez and his mind numbing football clogging the midfield with the most negative players I have seen, that's not a slight on Barry, Besic and McCarthy but there should never be more than one of these guys starting a match, one not two or three together, it gives our midfield absolutely nothing at all.

I don't think I will be purchasing my season ticket for next season unless there is a dramatic change here.

We will go out of Europa as soon as we meet a decent team.

Stoke up next on Wednesday night and most likely another depressing result!

OK, we started with 3 defensive midfielders and set up similar to the Chelsea game, hoping to snatch a point. Once Arsenal scored, that was it. That was the time to go for it big time. In our position whether we get beat 1-0 or 5-0 is immaterial, we need points!

Arsenal never broke sweat, if needed they could have gone up a few gears. We were devoid of ideas and apart from a few moments that performance could have been against 20 odd other teams this season.

MartinezÂ’s after match comments were as delusional as every other after match comment heÂ’s given. He just does not realise the position he and he alone has put us in. His tactics are shite to put it mildly. Not only does Martinez refuse to believe how precarious our position is but so do some supporters:

"We will NOT be relegated"... well not from where IÂ’m standing.

"ThereÂ’s 8 worse teams than us".... well not this weekend! And believe me, next weekend there could be less and those below us a lot closer!!

This clown should have been shown the door after New Year. There is no signs of anyone or anything changing. Where are the goals coming from to win us games? We area laughing stock and I fear for us.

We've played a lot worse this season.
Gibbo should have played from the off.
Lennon did OK when he came on.
Get Garbutt signed up - he's got balance (whatever that means).
Felt like Arsenal were in 2nd gear for a lot of that game.
It's not the defeats to teams like Arsenal that will kill us off.

I said in my last post he won't change his views on the game, and that will be to the detriment of us in the league. So, barring a victory in the Europa, it will be untenable for him to continue next season.

That said, based on the way we perform against teams who let us play, particularly in Europe, is enough for me to suggest he'd have more success in a continental league where the majority of teams don't play the percentage game. In that sense he's similar to Wenger (except Wenger's transfer budget is the 4th biggest in the league) but I don't think you could say is a shit manager, but who too has stayed an idealist in a league that has changed since Arsenal's Invincible days. I'm sure Wenger would still be winning trophies if he managed a top team in the leagues I mentioned with his style of play.

So we're on the same page Brent. I think we'll continue to struggle in the league while he's manager. We'll just have to disagree on whether he'd be a success managing a team in Europe because I think he would.

When will the penny drop? Everton are not winning, results and points do not lie, we are well past (excuse the pun) the unlucky result the bad backpass, the phenomenal effort. Unless points are won, we are on our way down.

This guy and Lukaku are driving me into alcoholism and gathering round a table I will admit to being a shareholder.

If you're talking about Besic not making his usual tidy passes or crossfield balls, then you're misunderstanding the role he was sent out to do today. Regardless of what you think of Martinez, he set Everton up very well to contain a very dangerous side away from home.

Did anyone notice that once Gibson came on Arsenal suddenly looked much better on the ball and that there was more space? He's not in the right shape to be able to put in a shift against top clubs like McCarthy does and then also find the energy and space to have enough time on the ball to pick out a pass.

The biggest issue is with Lukaku's lack of first touch, desire to win long balls, and sharpness when reading the offside trap. Notice how he always gets his head to the ball if it's a goal scoring opportunity but is never anywhere near winning headers with his back to goal? That's worrying. That's about desire. Naismith, despite his size, always contends for every high ball.

Then there's Barkley and Mirallas. At the moment, both are lacking a spark in their first touch, unable to move the ball around quickly and both making poor decisions. Jageilka and Stones, despite playing well defensively, are both also to blame for not playing first time/one touch balls out to Garbutt and Coleman. They have so many opportunities to do it but after the goals conceded early in the season they seem scared to do it. They both have to take one or two touches by which point the opposition step up to ensure that our wingers will have to resort to sideways or backwards balls.

I'm not saying that the manager is free from responsibility but these players were performing to a different level last season, particularly Barkley. It does take confidence verging on arrogance to pass the ball around the way Barcelona do but we did it in spells last season and at the start of this season.

I think the main worry about the manager is his inability to fire the players up and get the tempo of our football moving. He seems to work by giving the players a lot of respect and being their friends. Sometimes people need a rocket up their arse.

John, I wasn't expecting anything out of this game but Arsenal were poor today and we really didn't have a go at them until we went behind. That's the most disappointing thing for me: no desire to win games.

How many more gutless, limp, frightened and shameful attempts at representing this club is Mr Moment, his staff and these-brain washed players going to be allowed?

This is the last time from me, THIS MAN IS BIG TROUBLE FOR EFC.

RM: adapt or go?!!!

We need him available for the rest of the season.

As I have said before, if he doesn't take us down this year he will next year. The only problem is I am not sure who is available to take over. Someone who can force these footballing super stars (yeah right!) playing like they give a damn.

I can not believe that Martineze has lasted this long with such a disgraceful record this season and to cling to the theory that he can change it around because of his European exploits is just being negative in our thinking.

But she'd only say "cameras showed the 20 people in the crowd and I didn't see you". She wouldn't believe I was downstairs having a Chang (and anyway would think that was a metaphor for something else). What am I going to do on Saturdays next season?

It is not the players who have decided to play this shite slow cross-field build-up play, itÂ’s MartinezÂ’s tactics and the arsehole refuses to change it regardless where it leads us. Even today, he was happy with it??!!

HeÂ’s had 20 odd games to change the tactics, change the players but has steadfastly refused. Yes, the players havenÂ’t been performing but obviously the clown managing the team does.

Case in point – lack of guile and spirit.

That reflects in the total apathy on display from the players, resulting in this inevitable slide down the league and into the relegation battle.

What should happen is that the senior players/leaders in the team have a "come to Jesus meeting" with Martinez on how it has to be. The previous one seems to have lasted about one game!

If Martinez does not see the light then the leaders lead and implement on the pitch.

Only problem is we do not have a single leader on the pitch or in the sidelines waiting to lead us out of this mire.

Another depressing weekend watching Everton.

I thought this was meant to be entertaining?

Where's McGeady? Is he injured, or just been banished from the squad? We certainly haven't missed him.

These are worrying times. The threat of relegation is very real. Martinez has previous – and is doing it again.

Martinez is a poison at the club; he and the nonentities he brought with him will relegate us. He is spineless, arrogant, inept and devoid of guile and tactical acumen. He is, in my view, the worst man in any capacity that has ever been employed at Goodison Park.

To those who think a defeat at Arsenal is no more than expected and he will not relegate us, I would point to every single Premier Leagiue performance this season. We are soft, demoralized and spiritless, this entirely the work of one man. He must go now.

I have a terrible feeling that a semi final or final appearance (we won't win it) in the Europa League may keep Martinez in a job. I really want to do well in Europe but I want Martinez out more, so unfortunately I hope we bow out of Europe pretty soon, concentrate totally on Premier League survival, get rid of Martinez and hopefully get a solid manager in place.

On the fate of Martinez, he is unlikely to get fired unless we drop 'into the zone' (most unlikely AND whilst BK still has visions of Europa glory). But things might change if we suffered a real hammering -say 0-4, in one of our remaining home games. Again most unlikely.

Same can be said of Lukaku. How many times does the ball go up to him and he shows no desire or easily loses it.

As for Lennon. I couldn't understand where he was meant to be playing. He seemed to be up the top most of the time but what point is there doing that when height is his biggest weakness.

The only way Bill will get shut is if crowds are down and season ticket sales are down.

The ball is in our court guys !!!!!!!

Dont give them your hard earned money any longer

I don't think he's under orders to do any of these things. I think that he might think that he's too good for us nowadays. Those two throw-ins just typified his season. No-one made the runs so he just threw the ball anywhere. Plus his arseing around for their 1st goal is unforgivable.

Gibson came on at 82 mins. The game was already open at that point. He should have started. Arsenal were rubbish which made our meek surrender look even worse. Besic and McCarthy who seems to get a free pass on here offered absolutely nothing.

Playing both of them is already overkill without adding Barry into the mix. Committed players yes but their distribution and eye for a forward pass is consistently poor. 1 crab is fine, 2 crabs, overkill, 3 crabs is utterly counter productive.

Once again, another totally flaccid tactical performance from a manager way out of his depth.

My thoughts are;

Gibson is not being rushed back, he's been out for 18 months so to expect him to play 3 games in a week is a bit much. He'll be back for Stoke and if he stays fit Barkley will be lucky to get a game. Last year Barkley was the Bees Knees now he us a shadow of that player. Take note, Mr Kane.

Coleman please sell him to anyone who will pay his wages.

Lukaku got no service today so don't expect miracles.

This reminds me of some years ago when Spurs got back into Europe after some time out. Their next season they also finished very low, and did well the next time in Europe.

Please, Roberto, drop Howard he is a liability at present.

The main ones I think relate to the lack hunger of hunting in packs to win the ball back, the complete lack of urgency when we are on the ball, slow passing in possession even if only 10% slower makes a vast difference, other things...Barry was excellent last season, not this, Baines has not linked as well on the left with anyone as good as he did with Pienaar and looks a yard slower (Garbutt is showing him up for pace), Howard has been poor after a great world cup, etc etc...plus Martinez has lost his spark totally, chucking on forwards away at United last season at 0-0 was fantastic....today away at Arsenal...3 defensive midfielders...and his stubbornness re not dropping his favourites...Howard Barry and Baines....(Garbutt only got a game today because he is frightened of him not signing a contract even tho he should have been in purely on merit.....)

This season has been the most disappointing for me since the early 80Â’s , just hope we limp thru the season and survive..which I think we will thanks to some teams even worse than us.

The big problem for me is where are the goals coming from??? The odd few from defenders or midfield. Forwards few and far between. We can’t score, hold a lead – when we’ve had one – and can’t come back.

We have to get points on the board and if only Osman and Gibson can create anything in the team then give them a half each against Stoke. Play one defensive midfielder – McCarthy – and play Kone. If we don’t start scoring, we are in even deeper shit!

I'd ignore his time here as a player. Bought by Big Joe who then departed soon after. I always thought that like Gary Speed, Bilic was less than impressed with Howard's convivial, liquid management style.

Good managers make mistakes, recognise them, then put them right. Martinez does the first, not the second or third. Too many obvious errors are being made and repeated for him to keep his job beyond the summer.

I love the idea of him turning things around next season, but I just can't see it.

As is pointed out above, some day soon, the team will say 'fuck him' and just do what needs to be done to win a couple of matches!

But, hey, dead ball situations don't occur very often so it's not worth practising defending them. Now who was it said that?

Certainly wasn't crap as you say.

I'm with you Oliver@98 I wouldn't let Barkley put on an Everton shirt again until he sorts his attitude out. He's a complete liability and a lazy fucker. A complete waste of talent.

The team appear to have morphed in to one that reflects Marinez own personality. Whatever else they are about - winning at all cost doesn't seem to be on the agenda.

There is so much I could and have criticised about Martinez but for me his biggest fault is his lack of ruthlessness. That kind of emotion is probably not in the way he sees the way the game should be played. Jose Mourinho could teach him so much about the importance of the desire to win.

When will he realise that you are not controlling the game unless you win. Possession means nothing unless you win.

One of our problems in trying to turn a game is that (leaving aside Gibson) our midfielders - the otherwise excellent Besic and McCarthy can't shoot to save their lives.

Gibson and Naismith should have been on much earlier. Martinez is clearly not the tactical genius people think he is.

I think and pray we will survive but I don't want the naive Martinez to be here next season.

Our team wage bill is completely out of whack in relation to our standing so expect some major sales this summer to be replaced with loans and bosuns (sound familiar?)

It's a shame as I do believe the current squad could have achieved something with the right manager.

Back to square one this summer.

We are now in the area of it now mattering how good our football is we need 3 points. You sound like Martinez!

My point is, Martinez should never have been Everton's manager. A manager with a relegation on his CV should never have been given the job. We will always be bemoaning this appointment. I will stake that Martinez will do nothing of note with Everton. He has found his level. We will survive. But expect nothing else. He has nothing else in his locker.

I actually believe in this group of players. But I also believe that they need new leadership. New direction. Then watch them go. Martinez is not for me. He never was. I know that Everton cannot win every game of football. But we can also not keep squandering points. Most other PL teams would have put it up to Arsenal today. But (so predictably) We did not.

The Europa League could be Martinez's saving grace. But does anyone really want to go through this nonsense in the league next season. I see nothing to suggest that anything will be any different. In fact we are lucky that we have a few points on a few teams.

This actually to me seems worse that other relegation threatened seasons. Because I never for one moment thought that it would happen with a squad crammed with internationals. And there was me thinking that the school of science was back at Goodson. Martinez has put a stop to that. He is a one trick pony. Why else would he plod on with tactics that are just not working? The mind boggles.

You are dead right and I couldn't agree more.

The post above giving the form over the last ten league games is alarming. Most seasons there is one club which looks ok until December and then sinks like a stone(I'm sure Patrick M can provide the stats)and we look like we are that team this season as we are in free-fall at an alarming rate.

I have always been one to advocate patience as most managers have a bad patch but we are now at a point where crucial decisions have to be taken. We need at least 12 points from 11 games and have won just one out of the last 10 so form has to improve or we are down! Do the players as a unit look up for a fight? - not in my opinion. Barkley is so far away from a first team player this season he should not play again this season. Whatever it is that is affecting him he is not one who is going to scrap his way out of trouble. Coleman, Baines, Mirallas, Barry are all playing way below their potential - I exclude Lukaku because he is at least scoring goals and needs help - Kone has to be worth a try alongside him.

I remember only too well a new manager arriving who galvanised a losing and spineless team to such an extent that the midfield became known as "dogs of war" and he transformed them into cup winners and title challengers until things went wrong again. Joe Royle is there now and whilst too old to take over on his own he could yet have a part to play if Roberto departs. The players are good enough but don't seem willing to scrap and unfortunately it is easier and cheaper to ditch the manager rather than the players. A defeat at Arsenal on it's own is not a disaster but we now desperately need to win a league game. If this hasn't happened by the time we have played Newcastle I think the panic button must be hit to give us a chance of getting the points we need.

At 59 I have seen this a few times before and e are so nearly there again - we cannot afford to give this regime much more time and that is painful for me to say it but the club comes first and we are in trouble.

I agree with some posters, Coleman had a more than decent game, if we had a player with the nous to help out on the right side when he needed it the game may have ended better. For the first 20+ minutes Arsenal were second best and couldn't get the ball off us, and the midfield being slagged off on here, McCarthy and Besic, were responsible for that. However, Gibson would have made a positive difference, and I am aware that he's been out for months, but why not start him, give him an hour and THEN take him off? He only played 30mins versus Leicester, not the full game.
Brent, good shout, Martinez and his coaching staff have shown their stupidity with the comments regarding the defending against free kicks. Not necessary? Bollocks!

Likewise if we were being managed by Pulis or Hughes (or any of the also rans) everyone based on our results would demand his sacking.

What amazes me is the number of people who hold our hope that he can turn things around. It's one thing to sound good in analysing a game but it's another to find a solution to what's going wrong.

How long under Martinez before we can 'properly be ourselves' and what version of ourselves will that be - the team that played Arsenal last year or the team that turned up pretty much for most of this season.

Throughout his managerial career he has averaged 28% wins and has always performed worse than other managers at the same clubs.

Failure to plan and prepare.

Poor team selection.

Poor or no substitutions

Poor player recruitment

Substandard choice of backroom staff

Poor tactics

Poor man management and motivation

Stubborn inflexibility

Stupid comments to the media

Is there any box he ticks other than he is a nice guy?

Look at liverpool's goals today. Midfielders getting forward and shooting from outside the box. We don't even attempt to shoot, and we don't attempt to get players in position to take a shot. Opposing teams get the ball and pass it forward, always looking for the forward pass first. Our first instinct, every player, is get the ball and go backward. This is so unacceptable I don't know how our supporters have become so apathetic. I can't name another club where this would be accepted.

However, Evertonians of a certain vintage have seen the club's ambitions lowered for the last fifteen years and that is mostly down to the board's lack of drive and plans to do anything else but remain in the Premier League.

But we have seldom seen such a talented group of players produce so little so often and it would seem without any qualms from the manager or the board. Very few clubs spend £28m on a striker and see their fortunes take such a turn for the worse, but we are Everton that's what we do.

Seven points from a possible thirty is a terrible return no matter how badly we have played - Stoke have taken 20 points during the same period and they are hardly blessed with world class players are they?
Fortunately the teams around us haven't taken too many more points than we have in the same period, Aston Villa have only garnered two points from ten games which must be some sort of record for a club of their size.

Also, of the last 8 away matches, Everton has actually managed to be the worst team in the prem. Worse than Hull, Newcastle, Villa,and QPR with 3 points from 8 games and a goal difference of -10. This genuinely is relegation form.

We ended up losing a game we should never have lost because of a fine little detail like this. We were going for an equaliser when they got their second, so I can accept we had become stretched trying to get back into the game. But that first goal was piss poor.

It’s been said man times. That was a Moyes team percentage of Martinez’s influence.

We now have a team where his influence is 100%.

It’s the failure to recognise this basic fact that causes so many to hold out hope that this personable fool can turn things around!

Eleven games remaining, 33 points available.

With our current squad, we really could go unbeaten from here to the finish. Seriously.

We won't.

I just heard Thierry Henry saying about "Loving to defend", the man was talking football poetry. Draw them in to kill them with skill.

Everton have plenty of solidity to keep clean sheets, and our attacking stars would adore the acres of free space available.

Glenn Hoddle deeply impresses me every time he appears with his sheer cool headed common sense approach to Premier League Football. look at how much in awe the people around him are.

Hoddle is my choice. Step up Glenda, win us the UEL, keep us up.

I actually didn't think we were that bad today, especially 2nd half... but, if I'm totally honest, I didn't think we'd score although one plus is we have created a few chances and have the last few games. But it's taking them that's the worry.

That said, we are so pedestrian in midfield it's untrue. Lukaku worked hard today but his touch at times is awful and the amount of times he gets caught offside is so frustrating. I honestly can't see us getting anything at Stoke so the Newcastle game is massive. My god, what a shit season this has been. And I hope no-one mentions the Europa League... because we won't win it.

I know some will point to the Europa League and I have been to all the home games and yes the results have been good. Whether the European teams haven't cottoned onto us like the rest of the Premier League, I don't know.

My worry is that I fear if we drop into the bottom 3 at some stage, then we won't get out. You have to win some games to guarantee safety; playing the way we do, I don't see us winning any games.

I hope RM is at the helm of our club for a long time. We just need patience,get through the season unscathed, then regroup.

BVB have been in the bottom 3 all season;is Klopp a bad manager? No he isn't... these things do sometimes happen.

I just wanted to counter Jays factual argument with some other facts. I'm not playing devils advocate, I just think that people shouldn't totally write Martinez off. We've got a great chance to progress in the Europa and I'd love him to make some on here eat their words.

Also another thing I noticed today did you see the guy behind RM (staffer from Wigan) did not look interested in the game, just looking at his phone and picking his nose.

I actually don’t think we played too badly today but it was just the same old story of not taking our chances and not winning a game that we were capable of doing. But it’s not about the performances against Stoke, Kiev or Newcastle - it is all about the results.

If things do fail to improve then Martinez’s only saving grace could be the fact Kenwright doesn’t like sacking managers; it took things to be a lot worse than they are now for him to sack Walter Smith and he also gave Moyes another chance after finishing 17th in his second season in charge....

Those sanctimonious bastards got Uncle Woy the sack for not being in the top 6!

God knows how they would have reacted to this fella, words fail me at present.

We might as well get rid now and put one of the club coaches in charge and see if the players will put some effort in for him and then get a manager in after the end of the season. Martinez now has brought this club as low as is possible with the luxury of having a really good squad of players that he is unable to get to perform for him.

First goal again poor defensively, Stones slow to react at a corner. Giroud first to the ball and no man on the post to stop the ball hitting the back of the net; another soft goal conceded.

Possibly part of the problem was that Arsenal were so poor and we had set up with a trio of defensive midfielders, we got a lot more possession than we expected and, because of our set-up, lacked the guile and know-how to create anything worthwhile. Normally at Arsenal you would expect them to have more possession than the away side and so be more reliant on the odd breakaway where we could possibly have created a bit more than we did – it was 65 minutes for our first shot on a target; I believe we had two all match.

All-in-all, another slow ponderous performance: no pace, no power, too many back and sidewards passes again... but we wonÂ’t go down: there are worse sides than us. Having said that, if Martinez isnÂ’t sacked at the end of the season, I believe that he would take us down eventually.

The only way we can influence anything is by showing our disapproval. Fuck all this "supporters need to support"... Supporters need to see the trouble ahead for the club and do whatever is within our power to do.

I don't know whether you have got your head buried so far in the sand that you won't except the reality or if you are on the same course of tablets as RM. We have taken 11 points from our last 15 games that's the reality.

I have just watched RM being interviewed for MotD and Jonathon Pierce said the points tally would suggest that Everton are in a relegation fight, and he asked what did RM think was needed to turn it round. RM said we need momentum of 2 or 3 wins in a row, well when did we last achieve that?

I would imagine any one of us could have said we need to win a few games quickly. Talk is cheap and unfortunately that's all RM does is talk and talk and talk but never seems to say anything relevant. Time for the talking to stop and start winning matches and you don't do that by playing your negative brand of football.

He signed a new contract which Billy won't want to pay up on.

Unless we're certainties to go down, we'll not be sacking RM so make peace with that.

I'd sacrifice less of the ball for an extra goalscorer. In fact just don't play Barry.

Hope to hell that you're right.
But even with 15, we have a mess to sort out.

I wanted improvement after DM departed (I'd been hankering after it for bloody ages TBH), now I'm looking at "Long Term Plans" again.

FFS, all we needed was some "Additional Thinking", "Will to Win" and the right signings to carry it through.

Now we have "Devils in the Brainbox".

The team for the Anfield derby near the end of his reign – Simonsen; Clarke, Pistone; Stubbs, Weir, Linderoth; Gemmill, Ginola, Campbell, Naysmith, Carsley

I also don't believe that Walter's squad was as good as this team or had so many rank bad sides below them as are currently occupying the bottom six. The team he sent out to face Middlesboro in the FA Cup: Simonsen; Clarke, Pistone; Stubbs, Weir, Unsworth; Linderoth, Radzinski, Moore, Gascoigne, Gemmill.

I still can't believe that Roberto isn't under pressure from many more Blues; the results this season only underline the breathtaking lack of football we have witnessed.

I do believe its a reality and wouldn't it just be like us in the season following our best points total for a long time!

Just a point which I thought I'd make and it breaks my heart to even say it but would anyone agree that playing a severely weakened side against Kiev be a good thing if it give us a chance of us not losing or drawing after every Euro game?!!!

I was disgusted by Villa and Stoke's attitude towards this competition in the past but these are really desperate times for us.

I know right now it looks tough but we all need to hold our nerve and get to the magical 40 point mark.

We cannot afford to gamble on that happening, we must have a change and it must come before we play Newcastle at home.

Now I have said on this thread that I'm confident of avoiding the drop but not because the manager will turn it around but more that the teams below us are positively useless.

As for BK, I bet he hasn't even given relegation a thought!

Which goes to my next point that while Martinez might be the most frustrating Manager we've ever had, he is in no way the worst. I can think of at least 2 (Walker & Smith) even Kendall in his third stint was hopeless.

If Martinez won the Europa, he will be forever a hero to me.

Now look at the talented group of players RM has at his disposal and that will give you a clue as to where the blame lies.

Apparently we were "terrific" in the second half and the "performance deserved better".

Fast-forward 3 months to EFC's relegation and RM's post-match interview.

"We were terrific. Our performances deserved better than relegation."

Shrugs, smiles at camera, further waffle interspersed with the odd "phenomenal", "amazing" ......

Unlike you I have no wish to see Martinez here next season. In fact with apologies to those who don't know their Second World War history I quote Leo Amery in a speech in 1940 to Neville Chamberlaine (a man with many of the characteristics of Roberto - namely a lack of fight and bottle):- "You have sat here too long for any good you have been doing. Depart, I say, and let us have done with you. In the name of God go!"

We did very well last season, but we have done very badly this season. This cannot be allowed to recur. On that basis alone, he must go.

The list of his shortcomings is very long and apparent on all threads on this website.

Brian, I know where the blame lies but like you said the difference is in the players we have today. These are good players and it's up to them to start producing the results we need.

Phil, yes I wavered a bit today, and I have wavered in the past as well, but, like you, I firmly believe we will not be relegated this season. I also truly believe Roberto will take us into he promised land next season but we'll leave that one for another day.

Jags said last week were WEREN'T in a relegation battle. Well, we are!! One win in eleven games is relegation form. It was clear that we really did need to win at either Arsenal or Stoke so now it's Stoke. Another defeat on Wednesday night and by the time we play again in the PL all of the weekend's fixture list will be completed; if surrounding results go against us, the pressure on the players will have gone up a notch. Thus we really need a win at Stoke –not go for these containment attempts at a draw.

For those of you who need an ugly comparison to EFC's current position – Real Betis. Having played some great football in season ending 2013 they qualified for the Europa League. The club made good progress in the EL but meanwhile their La Liga form continued to fail. Like EFC, they had suffered from continued injuries pretty much from Day 1. Like EFC, they reached the last 16 of the EL but finally went out at that very stage. Although potentially there were teams in La Liga that were inferior to Real Betis the Seville side never recovered and were relegated to the Segunda Division.

Well Mr Martinez if you feel that you have too much quality to go down, talk to your compatriots in Spain and they will tell you otherwise...

I have seen every manager from Carey right through to the present charlatan and the only promised land he will eventually lead us to is relegation. Now it might not be this season but if he is here next season then we could indeed be heading for the promised land.

Brett Angell at least had the decency to appear like he knew he was shite. A mfucking disgrace week-in and week-out from the Belgian with a body like Mike Tyson that will be pushed off the ball by Lily Savage.

Please give Kone his shirt before the 㿈m. disintegrates to ٣m.

I wonder whether Martinez's position would be under greater scrutiny if we were not still in Europe? If that is indeed the main reason for the apparent slack he's been given over league form, then that is complete folly.

I just hope Kenwright wakes up before the pro-Martinez fans do... otherwise, we are all deep in the doo-dah!

He blames all our woes on the team's failure to cling onto three points in each of the opening games against Leicester and Arsenal. "They were unhappy about it and it's been hard to shake the feeling off," he said.

Now, if in the days I was a sales manager and had dared to say, SEVEN MONTHS after my lads had lost a couple of orders, that returns were down because my lads were still unhappy, his response (before firing me) would have been, "Well, what the fuck have you been doing about it, then?"

Football managers, I've shat 'em!

Who tore a hole in the time space continuum?!?

What will Martinez be to you if he relegates us?

Roberto has spent money, he has a good group of players and there has been little or no pressure put on him from outside or inside the club, but somehow he has managed to put our top-flight status in some doubt.

The players seem to be playing at well below 100%, there is no leader on the pitch, there is no desire to take games by the scruff of the neck and, worst of all, we are too easily beaten.

I said earlier in the season that his personality reminded me of Mike Walker and I have seen or heard nothing from him to change my mind. If he doesn't have the necessary leadership qualities he shouldn't be at the club, many of the fans know it, many of the players probably know it and it is for that reason he must go.

That's 18 points, if my maths are right. So being slightly over optimistic my target of 15 points is highly attainable IMO.

Tonight our players and manager must realise the plight we are in. Surely, that will cause a reaction as I'm sure none of them want to be relegated.

How will you feel if he relegates us?

I know things look bleak right now but we will survive this if we hold our nerve. That's why I said we need the Goodison crowd to back the team (hate the manager all you want) and suck those goals into the net. We need to stand together right now.

Lukaku and Barkley were poor but one of our best players, McCarthy, was irrelevant. Not that he had a bad game, he was just unnecessary and the least useful of our three holding players in the context of this match.

He should have been removed at half time, in my opinion for Kone.

We dominated possession but Lukaku couldn't trap a thing. Having said that, I want my goalscorers on the pitch when we are dominating.

We could have taken the initiative when it was presented then changed again after taking the lead if necessary. As it was we allowed arsenal to adapt and eventually gain a foothold in the match.

What a waste.

Your maths may be right; it's your logic (based on current form) that's wrong.

Colin #234

The three teams you reference are all in the top half - i.e. have room to breathe. We don't.
I'm not sure we're so much as free-falling as sinking further into the mire.

Regarding 'optimism', I only see delusion from those who accept that this is anywhere near good enough for EFC and that we're too good to go down.

The very fact that we're even debating scraping 40 points when we're now in March is why RM should be bundled into a taxi as quickly as possible.

The juries still out for me. I've been livid by some of the tactics and decisions this season, especially an in form Joel being dropped for Howard recently. I said earlier in the thread that I can't see how our league form will improve next season, lesser teams know know how to nullify us and Martinez will stick to his philosophy. So something has to give this summer. That said, if he wins us the Europa, he's got a bye from me to be Everton manager next season.

Here's how to back the team: stay away from the ground and make your displeasure abundantly clear until the board has no choice but to fire the incompetent manager.

The patient is ill and cannot feast on its standard dainties of love and adulation; rather, the malaise needs to be starved out. You could call it tough love, but fans of other clubs have done it with success, so why can't we?

A transformation that would completely go against all the evidence and logic before us this season and would somehow transform a bunch of under-achieving, dis-organised, demotivated, unfit, turgid, plodding players into a side capable of putting such a run together. Meanwhile, in the real world...

He has taken over a team/club ’punching above it’s weight’ and removed that tag with the way we’ve played football – I don’t hear that crap that Moyes used to revel in anymore because of the way we play football and the attitude of the manager.

Rather than spout off ’knife to a gunfight’ resignation about inability to compete in the transfer market to get a 20 goals a season striker while at the same time failing to identify the dead wood in his squad; he got 㿌m for Fellini and signed what at the time looked like the most promising centre-forward available in the English game.

I would be the first to criticise some of his decision-making today and in the past but let’s get a little bit of perspective here. We are disappointed because Martinez sets expectations high – not lowers them. I would rather have his innovation and fall short of his high standards than see a return to someone telling me I’m lucky we’re finishing above the half way mark.

I disagree that represents fans rapidly turning against him and would be interested to see the results after Thursday night.

Football fans are' fickle' , being generous.

Anyone can set high expectations. It's delivering on them that matters. Otherwise, it's called 'bullshit'.

Regarding perspective, I love the big 'IF' at the beginning of your post.

You can wallow in self pity and be negative if you want but I'd rather take the long view.

What are we really in danger of?

You can wallow in self pity and be negative if you want but I'd rather take the long view.

Er......where did that come from?
Completely illogical response to what I posted.

The long view? Is that through beer glasses?
Or some hallucinogenic haze?

Yes, he did get 㿌 million for our deadwood (as you put it) but spent most of that on a striker who can't even control a football.

This is the worst football I've seen since going to my first game in the 80s; no shape to the team; no leadership; no fight. I really fear for us as long as Martinez is manager.

I would also argue that he has strayed from his natural style and become even more pragmatic than David Moyes but without achieving the same results and he has also sacrificed his principles which makes me think that he is weak and no matter how much he says in the dressing room, the players will have latched on to this weakness and their displays thus far would seem to bear this out.

Winning the EL will of course be most welcome, although a tad unlikely, but it is the League table that shows the real strength of the team and we will probably finish in the lower half of the table which will mean the club will recoup significantly less in earnings this season – even if we did win the EL – than it did last season.

I also think that Evertonians expectations are always pretty high but not unrealistic and there is little doubt Roberto has managed to underwhelm most of us for most of this season.

There will be no more stupid talk from me about this Everton team actually managing to go on a little run of results. That was more wishful thinking than anything else. Martinez does not have it in his itinerary, to string a few results together. Last season caught a few teams off guard. But that won't happen again. Martinez does not know how to make it happen.

We will most likely survive. But only by scrapping for every point. We should just about scrape by, but only just. Says something about this season, when draws are welcome and acceptable results. And what will Martinez change for next season? I really don't want to know. I'd rather let someone else lead this Everton team. Could any other manager be any worse?

As for the Europa League. I don't want to see Everton go out. The further they go, the more I want them to succeed. But please don't make Martinez into some sort of hero because of this years EL run. Keep in mind how cheaply we exited both domestic cups. And look at the PL position. Martinez deserves no plaudits.

Martinez went all out to win the FA Cup with Wigan. Look at them now. This joker will be in Spain in a few years time. Plying his trade and selling his philosophy to a mid table team. That is until they also suss him out. His relegation battles will not be talked about... his cup win will. Watch this space.

Anyhow, ever the optimist, that's me. Let's beat Stoke City in a few days time. Even with or without our resident hindrance. Sorry I meant "manager". COYBs.

Chris - there is no need to start slapping your fellow passengers reassuringly around the face just yet unless they are displaying similar signs of neurosis.

Andy - two or three million versus 㿞m for a champions league berth plus our Europa prize and gate money.

If I thought we were under threat of relegation this would be a different conversation but we aren't.

Good night Mike.

Lost dosh in finishing lower down the league, fewer season ticket sales, even less TV coverage next season, potential sponsors not arsed, current players wanting to leave, potential signings wouldn't touch us with a barge pole. Have I missed anything?

This was the first time I switched off at half time as I knew it was only going to get worse. The players know that they can play the way they do and face no consequences and for that they should hold there heads in shame. Yes Martinez tells them what he wants but the lack of effort or commitment from many of them I find appalling.

I also do not give any credence to Martinez for the rise of Swansea City. His time at that club was in the lower divisions. They were a big club. And with the right guidance, were always going to climb the leagues.

Why not praise Moyes for our reasonably good season last year. Why not. It was half his team. My point is that people have built Martinez up to something that he is not. And in my opinion, he never will be.

Sit tight folks. The remainder of the season is going to get bumpy.

I know I'm in an ever-dwindling minority on here but I remain hopeful that in 12 months time this will all seem like a bad, distant dream.

As for your dig about Swansea. Well, ask the Swansea fans who turned their club around. Who laid the foundations etc... You can dislike Martinez all you want but what next? Accuse him of some dark and shady past? As for Swansea being a 'big club destined to climb the leagues' well, that made laugh.

I keep seeing the positives from each game, clutching at straws (Gibson! a couple of cameos and we're going to be saved!; Garbutt, a few great crosses and we're going to be saved; Lukaku, facing goal, decent crosses, goals, and we're going to be saved; etc etc ad nauseum). I'm deluded.

Any manager or team can have periods of bad form, you only have to look at Klopp with Dortmund, but now they have won 4 on the spin whereas we have gone through an entire season looking like we're not going to win a game.

What makes it worse is it's not even down to bad luck, injuries, or unlucky finishing, it's down to complete apathy, tactical ineptness and lack of any footballing idea offensively or defensively. Martinez has to go in the summer.

1) More atmosphere at home games. Worst I've experienced for years. We need to try and do our bit despite what we think of the players and manager. Get Goodison back to its vile best.

2) The players need to get it back in to their heads what a fucking privilege it is to wear that royal blue jersey.

COYB

Keeping RM on board will only mean that most of the players who want to jump ship will go before a new guy is installed and a disruptive summer will ensue. Bite the bullet now get the fans onside with the new manager and start afresh next season.

I can't even see us getting 10 in this current form.

Kenwright, sack Roberto, go get Mark Hughes or another tough gritty one like him who'll get this team fit, organised, good at set pieces, tough to beat, competitive and a bit of fire back in their bellies.

We're in big trouble, forget the Europa League. We ain't going to win it. This is brutal. Watching Everton now is so brutal despite the talent we have in the squad.

Surely has to be at least one manager that can do the above.

As I write this I know there's going to be a load of posters that would welcome that scenario and have the Moysiah back – lol.

I can't understand the posters criticising Lukaku who once again was isolated and working his butt off facing away from goal. Loved the poster who criticised him for not winning more headers with his back turned to goal. What? try it and see how easy it is, especially finding a player to head it to. Barry had to play too far back and no Gibbo in to put a pass through for him.

What happened to Pienaar and Osman? One has to wonder if RM is not playing them so he doesn't have to admit his system doesn't work in the EPL.
.

Outside of that, I'd welcome any forward thinking manager from the continent who has good scouting links to the European leagues. So that would mean someone who can basically emulate what Koeman is doing with Saints.

I just read on Grand Old Team that Bill Kenwright has had some family issues to address in the recent past and that his focus hasn't been totally on Everton FC for this reason – anybody know anything about this? I hope it isn't serious for him or his family even though he isn't my favourite Chairman / Owner.

'Get Mark Hughes' feels like the right note on which to bid you all a good evening.

Jim 291 - I can't let you away with that, Lukaku was absolutely dire today mate. He completed something like one pass. Even under no pressure he couldn't pass it to a blue shirt. His hold up play and ball control is the worst of I think any striker in the EPL... That said, if he can't do it why keep persevering with it, I would have dropped him out wide and brought Kone on - he must be completely finished if he wasn't fit to be brought on today.

Next year is my concern. I hate calling for an EFC mangers head as that means he is not doing well. I hope I'm wrong on this, but I believe leaving Roberto in charge will just lead us on a downward spiral.....

Moyes and Hughes are your middle of the road managers, if they were a colour they would be beige. If they were a band they would be Coldplay. If they were political they would be in the centre. All this is well and good, ’safe’, but it will never win us a trophy.

We still have a very good chance of winning a trophy this season. Comparing our form in Europe to the league is like comparing night and day. You may as well put all the talk of new managers to one side until the summer because we won’t go down..so why keep working yourselves up lads. Let’s just wait and see what happens in the Europa before we fuck him off. Because if we do win it, Roberto Martinez will be the most successful manager since the 80s.

Why not use one of the Everton coaches as a temp manager till the end of season and use the rest of the season to advertise for a new manager and find out who will apply so he can start at the end of this season. We write up on here about who we would like as a new manager but with the Chairman and Board we have who will apply with them in charge.

I do not want Everton to be a club who just fires the manager because we do not perform great every week, but in Mr Martinez's case I am sorry, but with his lack, to be able to change a game with a plan (B) and refusing to alter his tactics that are not working imo, he will fire himself.

BK, you may be the major shareholder that gives you control of the club but it is the 35,000 -40,000 spectators and their fathers and grandfathers and their fathers and grandfathers before them that built Everton football club not you, so get your head out of the sand speak to the man you appointed and tell him to either turn this club around starting Wednesday or to pack his bags and leave.

No shame in that. We probably created the better chances too. Rom had two good chances, Lennon one. In contrast Arsenal did struggle to create clear chances, one for Giroud plus he scored a half chance.

The reality is that we can't look at this in isolation. This wasn't a tactic for Arsenal. It was how we play every single week. We have as much possession as we can meaning we never get twatted, but offer precious little attacking threat.

So, no it wasn't good enough. Because it was the same old tripe we're being served whether it's West Brom or Chelsea.

We'll do exactly the same at Stoke. We already know. If we pinch the first goal we'll have a chance but it's just hoping for good luck rather than taking our future in our own hands and seeing if we can beat teams.

We will most likely be safe this season. But only because there are a few worse teams than us. Lets all applaud Martinez for that. And we are a long way from winning the Europa League. A few good results in that competition means nothing. When we cannot transfer that form into the league.

I will agree to disagree with you about Wigan and Swansea. The fact is Martinez took Wigan down. And as for Swansea, other managers played a huge part in their resurgence. Martinez's input was minimal. Okay, maybe Swansea are not a big team in the true sense. But they were big for the leagues that they found themselves in. Remember them in the old first division. And a certain Bob Latchford playing for them. Not exactly a bad pedigree or history for the non entities that you made them out to be. By the way, Colin, take a look at my name. I know plenty of Swansea supporters. They credit the manager of the RS with their rise to the premier league. Not Martinez.

I do not want Martinez as our manager. I appreciate that some people do. As for people saying that he will be our most successful manager since the 80s, should he win the Europa League. That really is wishful thinking. But time will tell. I don't want Everton FC to lose football matches. But Martinez seems to have other ideas on that.

I used to like reading ToffeeWeb comments quite a lot, I always thought there was a good variation of opinion. It's been harder and harder the past couple of months. I remember 2 months ago when people were calling for Tony Pulis to be our manager – Tony fucking throw into the box from as far away as possible Pulis. That's when I stopped respecting most on here's opinion, I thought Blues were more intelligent. The fact someone above was talking about a fucking temp manager and advertising the manager's job. This is Everton for Christ's sake.

Anyway, I think I will try leave here for a while, if I can! Hopefully this time next year well be back to our old selves, where Leon and Tony were ripped to shreds for being decent yet loyal, while Baines is suddenly all of a sudden shite because he's had a potential career ending injury and still hasn't got back to full fitness. Oh and hopefully Tim's playing up front.

Goodnight folks.

But I was in fact having a dig at Roberto Martinez. And will continue to do so until he proves that he is fit to manage this great club. Or until he is sacked. He might have broken records for the right reasons last season, so that makes it even more unforgivable for the rubbish he is serving up this season.

It was a bit 'meh' though, we never looked likely to score and they only looked marginally more likely to score.

The co-presenter on my feed, think it was Danny Murphy, but not sure kept on about us giving the ball away and most of our goals conceded coming from individual mistakes; how right he was.

The 2nd half it was much more of the same you'd think we were winning and running down the clock, so much so I fast-fowarded x 6, when they scored again it went to x12.

This season is effectively over as I think we will maintain or average of 1 point per game and coast over the required minimum (36-37?) with a game or 3 to spare, but that could change if we lose too many. Stating the obvious I know, but that's how I see it.

The only thing (I hope) is the chance that the Europa can rescue the season.

If that keeps Martinez in a job I'm torn either way.

The overall tone seems resigned and apathetic and roll on June.

I can't even be arsed ending with the obligatory 4 letter word starting with ' T ' and ending in ' I '

The players obviously don't give a toss, they still get paid. Pretty much all of them are stealing a living, except for Stones and McCarthy. Lukaku looks great against shitty Swiss sides but today and most of this season he was invisible.

Kenwright will not sack Martinez unless we get relegated, which is a serious possibility (66/1 worth a punt). We missed a trick not getting Tony Pulis, who would bring what we need discipline, directness and fucking grit.

I feel sorry for all our great fans who travel all over the country to watch these knob-heads.$50 a ticket plus travel.

I think that this season he has gambled everything on one thing, winning the EL. If he gets to the semi-final or final and doesn't get us relegated, he will be safe in his job for the start of next season. Everton and BK won't sack him. We e depressingly predictable that way and anyway, we are too cheap to pay the guy off.

Last season it was getting a CL place and nothing else mattered. He didn't achieve it but a record PL finish saw him safe for the start of this season. Last season, while in no small part his doing, was still a freak of a season in the league given his overall record. I think it fooled a lot of people and bought the guy a lot of time.

The season before it was the F.A. cup. Winning it may have bought him time at Wigan, even with the relegation.

Martinez may finally have been found out this season and/or his luck may have finally run out. Unfortunately, it may take a relegation for us to get rid of him. Right now, I can't see him changing his approach and learning anything from this season in the league. If we stay up, we will be stuck with him.

We really are woeful to watch.

Cannot come to terms with RM and his selection methods. I like Ros, but why was he in the team against Arsenal. His performances have not been good lately, and he was listless and disinterested as well as careless, during the match

Bobby, until you can get the laws changed to no head height, it's a major part of our game that we are missing out on.

This time last season, every single comment on post-match threads was criticising Kenwright for not getting Martinez signed on for the long term, worrying that bigger clubs with vacancies would swoop for him. So many people were worried that Arsenal, Manchester United, even Barcelona (!) would take him up, and the press rumours only added fuel to the fire. There were no Everton fans calling for any kind of change in management.

WeÂ’ve had a shitty season, but I still think I see spirit in the players and I feel like we just need things to start rolling for us again. If you look back at our league results since the turn of the year (excluding Hull, which was simply awful), there are so many cases where a little bit of fortune or a slightly different decision would have put us all in a much better frame of mind.

1-1 Man City – A great result. Can’t knock this. Could have won it as well.
0-0 West Brom – What if Baines had taken that penalty? What if Mirallas had scored it? We would have beaten a team who have now kept clean sheets in 6 of their last 8 games.
1-0 Palace – Looking like a better and better result with each week that Palace climb the table.
0-0 Liverpool – A good result, whichever way you look at it.
0-1 Chelsea – We played them off the park at times and deserved at least a point against the team running away with the league. Their winner was ridiculous.
2-2 Leicester – Leicester were very, very lucky to get 2 goals out of that game, and if Lukaku had put away any one of the 3 excellent chances he had, we would have seen that as a moralising win against a battling, stubbornly defensive team.
2-0 Arsenal – The scoreline massively flattered Arsenal. We were unlucky to go down at the end of the first half, and in the second half we came out and looked by far the better team. They scored with a huge deflection through what was their second chance of the half just before going into 7 minutes of injury time that would have put huge pressure on them. And from our point of view, we were denied by their keeper brilliantly on 3 occasions in the second half. As well as that, Lukaku, through on goal at 1-0, was incorrectly flagged offside. Again, this could have been a very different story.

I understand the frustration with our league position. IÂ’m frustrated too. But I will not put it all on Martinez, who did a fantastic job last season and has made real, positive changes to this side. We have a fantastic spine for the future in Robles -> Stones and Garbutt -> McCarthy and Besic -> Barkley -> Lukaku and I honestly believe Martinez is the man to develop those players. Apart from anything, he brought in 4 out of those 7.

Someone remind me of what happened the season after we came 17th under Moyes... If someone had offered me the choice between Â’mid table with a genuine chance in the Europa LeagueÂ’ and Â’pushing for European qualification with no other prospectsÂ’, I would have taken the Europa League every time. What an adventure weÂ’re having in Europe.

Sacking Martinez would be the knee-jerk decision that weÂ’ve watched so many clubs make over the years, and it rarely leads to improvement. Besides, who would we hire? I hear RedknappÂ’s available...

Get behind the team and there is a very real chance we could see royal blue shirts in the Europa League final this year.

Bring on Stoke.

I don't think so, as success is based on how you perform over the season, all comps. What happened in Capital One? In FA Cup? Is happening in league? Even if he wins said tin pot, and we go down, he won't be the most successful blah blah in my eyes.

As you say, let's just wait - before saying with so much certainty that "we won't go down"!

I see Bobby has started dusting down his Wigan, "I will not alter my approach" speech

Anyone who says, "They were there for the taking" should be kicked senseless for three hours. Why do we believe that the league's poorest team, form wise, should walk over the team that is fighting for a Champions League place?

Pointless, boring footy that has caused me to pack in my season ticket. I was wavering with the birth of my daughter but I am not even considering renewing now.

Playing McCarthy, Besic and Barry in the one team was never going to work.

Give RM his p45 and lets try again with someone else, this is just too damn depressing.

I will ask you to google Martinez’s name go to Wikipedia’s write up about Martinez’s career and ask yourself " should he have been hired as a manager of Everton who were looking for a premier manager for an established premier club".

As has been said before on this site the belief was a soon as Moyes said he was leaving Martinez was informed he had the job, and despite B.K. saying he spent 24/7 speaking and talking to football people all over Europe the only people he spoke to were Martinez and some of the coaches at the club.

I.M.O. "if " we replace Martinez we do not just hire some one who has beaten Everton on the way to winning a cup but has a winning background, and attitude, to move us forward and has plenty of time in the off season to prepare.
.

Relegation is ' just not on,' I was told, 'and we are all excited about the Europa success. Some times these runs just happen. A couple of wins will see us right back in the groove.'

Of course, in mentioning the 'r' word, I had forgotten it's only March and we've got six wins in the bag already. Silly me.

Lose to Stoke and we'll have 10 days to gnash our teeth till the next game.

Hull play Sunderland so at at least one will pick up points and I fancy Aston Villa to get a result at home to w.brom. That 6 point cushion's not going to last long at this rate.

The fact that Everton have just four points more than Wigan had at the same stage of their relegation season suggests to me that there is a major flaw in Roberto's methods and ideas about how the game should be played.

Six victories is a poor return and those wins have been against relatively poorer teams i.e. QPR, Aston Villa and West Ham at home, WBA, Burnley and Palace away from home. That means that we have only beaten one team (West Ham) who were in a better league position when we played them.

And don't even start going on about Moysie who finished 17th in his second season. It's all conjecture Brent, so as I say..lets wait and see. We've got Roberto until the end of the season, so you may as well get behind him and the team.

Which are those teams, why are they worse than us at the moment, other than the obvious league position argument, and would you bet anything worth losing that we would beat any of them?

I'm not happy with the results and I'm not particularly in favour of Roberto staying on as manager beyond the summer. The way I see it, we won't go down and we've got a manager who has got us a fighting chance of winning a competition we've not been in since 2009/10. Europe is the best stage for Martinez to put his philosophy into fruition. So why would anyone want the likes of big Dunc to take over when we'll easily stay up based on our form since Christmas.

He was not a hero then, nor is he a zero now, so let’s get a bit more balance in the views expressed. But I tell you what Roberto, you start next season like the last 3 months and you will rightly be gone by Xmas. As for the players, I have lost all respect for some of them and there needs to be a summer clear out.

Villa V WBA
Villa V QPR
Villa V Everton
Villa V Burnley

Palace V QPR
Palace v WBA
Palace v Hull

Leicester V Hull
Leicester V QPR

WBA V QPR
WBA V Leicester

QPR v Everton

Sunderland v Villa
Sunderland v Palace
Sunderland v Leicester

Everton V Burnley
Everton V Sunderland

Burnley v Leicester

Romelu Lukaku and Aaron Lennon both had chances to draw the Blues level but we didn't take our opportunities and were ultimately punished. Everton controlled the game for large parts but simply didn't have the cutting edge to hurt Arsenal where it mattered.

As ever, the wild and wonderful world of Twitter went into meltdown post-match, with hundreds of Blues frothing at the mouth and demanding Martinez be sacked for another unacceptable performance and result. Losing at Arsenal appears to have become unforgivable to a certain section of the Evertonian fan base, particularly when we consider our impeccable record at both Highbury and the Emirates stadium under the previous Everton manager.

We here at SOS1878 will never 'accept' losing, but you can't suspend reality. The squad needs an overhaul in the summer and Roberto Martinez deserves the time to put things right. Part of the reason why we are not going berserk is because we are not stupid. We expected bumps in the road. Last season, on reflection, was too easy.

Given the situation we find ourselves in, it is important that the fans stay calm and get behind the team. We would never advocate backing any manager unequivocally, but we are three quarters of a season on from finishing 5th, with the chance to progress deep into the Europa League latter stages.

Sky fans cry after 27 games and call for manager's heads. It is the same sort of creatures who boo Ross Barkley and Romelu Lukaku every other week at Goodison, destroying their confidence. Europa League aside, we must accept that this season is now a write off.

Instead of calling for the manager's head and making Goodison a hostile place to play for our own players, all efforts now need to be placed into roaring the team to safety instead of feeding hysteria. There are plenty of winnable games left that will see us over the line, but the players will require the vocal support for which Goodison is synonymous.

Our timeframes in regard to the manager are clear. We give him the remainder of this season, the summer, and at least until Christmas. Make no mistake, if the summer doesn't bring changes we'll be more critic... but you have to allow some time and breathing space for the manager.

In Martinez We Trust.

School of Science

I expected some regression this season as RobertoÂ’s plans were being put into place and realise that it would take a couple of seasons (maybe more) for his plans to come to fruition. What I didnÂ’t expect was regression to the scale of what it has been.

Also, I would expect to have seen some evidence of what he is aiming for; unfortunately, I have seen nothing to indicate any progress in his aims for the club. He his rigid in his ideals, canÂ’t see the obvious, and as this disastrous season goes on, the rubbish he speaks appears to get more ridiculous.

You must see something that I canÂ’t but from what I can see thereÂ’s nothing within him to change things round unless he does the most massive U-turn in history and throws all his old ideas/philosophy out of the window.

The team looked totally demoralised and that translates to the fans losing all confidence in them. We expect things to go wrong. It was only with the penalty that things changed and by half time the game was over.

The truth is that, the way YB played on Thursday, they wouldnÂ’t stand a chance in the PL.

That is, some of the players don't like his methods. How can Baines, Coleman, Jagielka, Distin etc.all turn into such mediocre players overnight? You don't go from the 3rd best defence in the league last season, to complete dog-shit in 3 months.

Baines & Coleman have been a shadow of the players they were last season. They both don't want to run at their opposite numbers anymore, what's that about? They stop at the half-way line and give a square pass.

It's Hodgson / Villas-Boas syndrome all over again. Some don't want to do it for the manager, because they have no faith in him. You only need two or three senior pro's to disagree with a manager's methods, and it's curtains I'm afraid.

You can blame the manager, or you can blame the players – it makes no difference. It's over for Martinez because the players are not 100% behind him. Simple.

Going to be very difficult getting a result at Stoke who will be, as always, very direct pumping loads of crosses into the box. We all know how well we manage that style of play this season.

If we sit back inviting them on to us Wednesday, I am not holding out much hope for anything better than a draw. I actually had a twitch in my eye typing that last line.

Concern about relegation is not hysterical or the reaction of "Sky fans". Have some respect for opinions different from your own.

Lawro's predictions have us getting stuffed 2-1 at Stoke - resulting in us teetering on the brink of an abyss darker than a car full of arse-holes.

However, Lawro's opponent for the midweek Premier League fixtures is Kieran Shudall, singer and guitarist in indie-rock band Circa Waves and also an Everton fan.

He has us winning 1-0.

Which means it'll be a 2-2 draw and not much use.

Dark times.

I addition, when the manager plays England's No.1 left back in centre midfield, you know he is getting desperate.

Whoever comes in will only play the same style as the manager instructs.

The Europa league has worked well, teams have played to our strengths in attacking and leaving themselves exposed when we have counter attacked.

Make no mistake, we will meet teams less generous and more defensive in the latter rounds.

Premiership teams have worked us out and sat back allowing us nothing but sideways football.

All Evertonians can see that its not working, Martinez needs to change and try and come up with a plan b, speak to the players, if the team as a whole come up with a plan b then at least give it a go.

Games are running out, at the moment we are very fortunate the bottom three clubs are not putting pressure on us, all that could change in the matter of a couple of results.