Everton travelled to Upton Park for the penultimate game of the season against West Ham in the "battle for 10th" with Roberto Martinez choosing a surprise debut for 19-year-old Brendan Galloway over wantaway Luke Garbutt, who remained unused on the bench.

The home side kicked off in party atmosphere in the bright sunshine, but Coleman got forward early but his cross was cleared. Galloway was soon tested by Downing down West Ham's right.

Barkley fed a nice ball to Osman, who could only toe-poke when a harder shot was required and Adrian pushed it behind for a corner that Barkley drove in well but Lukaku whiffed at it horribly and Stones drove the bouncing ball wide. Everton had started well and were looking lively.

Creswell got in a shot that Howard bundled behind for a corner and McCarthy had to chest it out for another corner before Barkley could relieve the Hammers pressure but a ball in hit Coleman's arm: no penalty, said Kevin Friend.

Everton resumed their attacking intent, but a feed to Lukaku failed and Downing was soon spraying long crossfield passes to get the home side attacking. Valencia drove a distant shot straight at Tim Howard.

It was a nice open game and Everton were moving the ball around well, with forward intent, but the moves were breaking down in the West Ham box as the accuracy of passing required was not there or Lukaku's dreadful touch saw the ball bounce away from him.

The first yellow card went to Reid who blocked Lukaku's run rather cynically. Galloway got back well to cut out a good ball for Downing, who was a persistent danger. Noble came close with a dig on a lose ball went across Everton's goal.

Lennon drove centrally at the Hammers and played in a great ball for Lukaku who lashed his shot a foot over the bar from a glorious position. The next card went to Coleman for holding back Valencia. Downing got space to run through the middle and fire at Howard who batted it away.

Lukaku got another good feed in front of the Hammers goal but poor control saw the ball bounce up and hit his arm to end the move. Valencia then fouled Stones who was carrying the ball well out of defence for Everton but nothing came of Barkley's lofted free-kick.

Lennon got spoken to for bundling Kouyate over. A good passing move ended with Barkley offside. Barry was next in the book for a foul on Reid as the first half came to an end with neither side really coming close.

Lennon got spoken to for his collision with Kouyate but the free-kick was defended away. A good move got the ball in to Osman, then McCarthy, neither player wanting to take the shot when a chance to shoot seemed on. Another good passing move ended with Barkley offside. A terrible foul by Barry saw him pick up the third card after his poor pass to Reid.

Lukaku was gifted the ball in a good position but a bizarre touch saw it go away from him rather than remain in front of him and ready for a shot on goal, summing up Everton's perennial problem when it comes down to the business of scoring goals.

A banner amongst the Everton faithful at half-time proclaimed "Kenwright & Co, it's Time to Go; 20 years is plenty"

Everton kicked off the second half and had to defend West Ham's early effort before a good move got them within sight of goal where Barkley scooped his shot high over the goal.

Everton got a free-kick in a good position that Lukaku curled just inches wide, smacking off the stanchion. Coleman got in a great driving run but Lukaku could do nothing with the cross Everton attacked again and won a corner that seemed like it should have created more than a blocked shot from McCarthy.

Stones did well to release Barkley from defence but he soon had three defenders around him. Lukaku received another good forward ball to feet but had no joy with a patch of sticky grass that defeated him. This allowed West Ham to mount another attack and it was dangerman Downing who evaded Galloway and stroked it past Howard and just inside the far corner.

West Ham attacked with drive but Stones broke it down with an excellent interception to release Barkley but Osman stopped progress and the momentum seemed to be gone but the ball got out to Lukaku whose cross was slightly deflected to Osman who had a lot of work to do. But his first touch was brilliant and he followed it with an excellent chest-high volley past Adrian, a splendid finish.

Barkley, who had played his typical game for this season, was replaced by Mirallas for the last 20 minutes. Kouyate got every upset that Galloway had the balls to tackle him brilliantly, Everton playing with more desire now, but that saw McCarthy booked after a clumsy foul.

It was lively stuff from both sides as each went for the winner, Everton failing to take advantage as the ball pinged around the West Ham area. McGeady replaced Lennon on his final appearance for the Blues.

McGeady once more flattered to deceive, showing desire and skill to fire in a cross but it was direct at Adrian. Barry fouled Song and could have seen a second yellow for it.

Another forward move that should have produced more typified the Everton problem, each player preferring to pass rather than go for goal. From the corner, McGeady set up a nice cross to Lukaku that 9 centre-forwards out of 10 would have buried but the Big useless Belgian allowed the defender to get in and put him off.

West Ham had a flurry of corners but Everton broke at speed, McGeady playing in Lukaku but his shot defelected off the defender's leg and was parried by Adrian behind for a corner. Everton came so close to scoring from each one... but tellingly failed to score from any of them. Galloway got the fourth yellow card that should ensure Everton miss out on the Fair Play route to the early stages of the Europa League.

Added time and a final foray forward and this time it worked brilliantly. McGeady down the right, a much better cross in, and there was Lukaku, pushing past the youngster Burke to power home an excellent close-range header that won the game for Everton — a game in which they had largely outplayed their hosts, with 58% of the possession that included relatively little backward/square passing. A somewhat better performance overall; a much better result!

Scorers: Downing (62'); Osman (68'); Lukaku (93')

West Ham United: Adrian, Reid [Y:26'], Cresswell, Kouyate, Downing, Noble, Jenkinson, Collins (14' Burke), Cole (70' De Carvalho), Song, Valencia.
Subs not Used: Jaaskelainen, Jarvis, O'Brien, Amalfitano, Lee.

Everton: Howard; Coleman [Y:32'], Jagielka, Stones, Galloway [Y:89']; Barry [Y:44'], McCarthy [Y:73']; Osman, Barkley (66' Mirallas), Lennon (78' McGeady); Lukaku.
Subs not Used: Robles, Garbutt, Besic, Naismith, Kone.

Referee: Kevin Friend

Attendance: 34,977

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Reader Comments (218)

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Chris Feeley
1 Posted 16/05/2015 at 14:14:51
The lineup of:

Stones
Galloway
Jagielka
Coleman

Makes me think that Coleman will play left back and Stones right back. Garbutt is on the bench, so if thereĂ‚’s an injury in Minute 1 youĂ‚’d assume heĂ‚’s fit to come on.

Karl Jones
3 Posted 16/05/2015 at 14:27:12
Where the fuck is Garbutt... if heĂ‚’s not injured?...Reading between the lines with the Distin situation etc, it seems as though Martinez puts his pig-headed principals before the good of the team. We need rid of this buffoon ASAP.
Christopher Marston
6 Posted 16/05/2015 at 14:35:17
By all means give Galloway a game – but not a game where 2 out of the back 4 are being played out of position! ThatĂ‚’s naivety at its worst!! Idiot!!!
Pete Edwards
7 Posted 16/05/2015 at 14:31:14
Karl, the lad has been offered a contract one that would see him very well off I imagine, if heĂ‚’s not signed and has no intention to then why blame the manager....

No pig headedness about it, as with the Distin "situation" although that is a bit of strange one to comment on as he was taken out for the good of the team after his poor performances.

Phil Gardner
8 Posted 16/05/2015 at 14:41:24
Pete, was it a Ă‚’writtenĂ‚’ contract or a Ă‚’verbalĂ‚’ one?
Karl Jones
9 Posted 16/05/2015 at 14:50:23
Pete, IĂ‚’ve just seen the bench... Why then does he have him on the bench if he wonĂ‚’t sign a prospective contract? We need someone with a good left foot delivery, not a raw kid with no first-team experience (not to mention having to shift people out of position). This manager is no good for Everton.
Eddie Dunn
10 Posted 16/05/2015 at 14:52:56
The whole feel I get today is that we are due a hiding. We lost to a shite Sunderland team and the week before lost to Villa, who were exposed today by Saints 6-1.

We are playing Galloway, which will be interesting. Garbutt only making the bench, suggests he is not in favour.

A 3-1 loss IĂ‚’m afraid.

Jim Bennings
11 Posted 16/05/2015 at 14:59:54
Goodbye Garbutt!!
Jamie Yates
12 Posted 16/05/2015 at 14:59:43
Good lord. Young prospect makes debut in meaningless end of season fixture but itĂ‚’s the wrong young prospect and everyoneĂ‚’s up in arms. WhatĂ‚’s the big deal folks? GarbuttĂ‚’s shown what he can do why not give this other lad a go?

LetĂ‚’s just get this waste of a season over with and thank our lucky stars thereĂ‚’s no Europa nonsense next time to ruin it. Fair play standings pending of course... Suppose we can always hope we lose and this no hoper Galloway gets sent off.

Christy Ring
13 Posted 16/05/2015 at 14:50:41
If Garbutt is on his way, Martinez has a lot to answer for. He deserved to get more playing time during the season, due to Baines being injured and off form. A young natural left-sided player and we cannot afford to lose a player of his quality.

IĂ‚’d prefer to see Bob go for many reasons. Why put him on the bench??? And not start him???

Jim Bennings
14 Posted 16/05/2015 at 15:16:26
Is Lukaku playing?
Victor Jones
15 Posted 16/05/2015 at 15:04:17
Goodbye, Luke Garbutt. It was nice to see that you were given a proper chance at Everton. It is an absolute pleasure for us supporters that we have a manager who is prepared to give youth a chance. It is an absolute pleasure to have a manager who has his finger on the pulse. We need to find out more on what Barry, Howard and Osman bring to the team. What ever will we do without the majestic insight that Martinez brings to our club. And what has happened to young Browning? Is he also surplus to requirement.?

I give up trying to second guess Martinez. I give up with his stupid lop sided team selections. I give up on (now the season is over) why he still sticks with the tried and tested old players. I give up on the fact that he never gives youngsters a proper chance. I just give up. I really do.

Anyhow, heres hoping that inspite of Martinez, that the team can scrape a win today. Cause that is what it is all about. Not Martinez. But Everton winning football matches. COYBs.

Jim Bennings
16 Posted 16/05/2015 at 15:25:01
The more I watch Romelu Lukaku, the more he convinces me heĂ‚’s no better than Anichebe at least as a footballer, more goals in him but Jesus Christ heĂ‚’s got the touch of Bret Angell.

We look a poor team really we do!

Jim Jennings
17 Posted 16/05/2015 at 15:41:00
Oh my god... why isnĂ‚’t Besic playing instead of Barry?

Martinez sticking to his favourites instead of listening to the fans as usual. HeĂ‚’s clueless, he has to go and take his coaching staff with him.

James Kirrane
18 Posted 16/05/2015 at 15:48:02
Sorry to hear that Luke Garbutt is leaving. The only conclusion that can be drawn.
Eddie Dunn
19 Posted 16/05/2015 at 15:51:37
Half time and we look like we are playing on auto-pilot. Why are we not shooting on sight instead of over-playing? It is turgid shit. Glad I didnĂ‚’t go.

Last season, it was a brilliant second half, once Osman went off and Mirallas started to link-up with Lukaku. Last season, Ossie was injured, but I bet that this season Martinez leaves his changes either too late, or once we concede.

Jay Harris
20 Posted 16/05/2015 at 15:53:13
This is the poorest manager I have ever seen in watching 55 years of top flight football.

His signings are shite and not one player has improved his game under him.

The tactics and preparation are totally woeful.

Victor Jones
21 Posted 16/05/2015 at 15:50:20
Re. Jamie Yates. I cannot agree with your comments. It still must be a kick in the teeth to young Luke Garbutt, to be overlooked for this game.

You say that we all know what Garbutt can do. Well we also all know what Barry and Osman can do. We all know that a misfiring Lukaku can do. I donĂ‚’t see them being left out.

The writing looks to be on the wall. Another promising youngster will be departing Everton. And we sign up all our oldies.

And can we win today? Now that would be a phenomenal experience. Oh the joy of being an Evertonian. I think.

John Daley
22 Posted 16/05/2015 at 16:22:55
"His signings are shite and not one player has improved his game under him."

When you consider weĂ‚’re basically going to have the same squad of players with (what sounds like) the bare minimum addition of a couple of uninspired signings, it doesnĂ‚’t exactly fill you with anticipation for next season does it?

Barring some mid-summer miracle or an absolutely shit hot start that sends confidence soaring, I canĂ‚’t see how things are going to unfurl any differently to how they have done since December.

Drew O'Neall
23 Posted 16/05/2015 at 16:43:05
GarbuttĂ‚’s blatantly been tapped up.. DonĂ‚’t see how thatĂ‚’s the managerĂ‚’s fault. Get a grip.
Clive Rogers
24 Posted 16/05/2015 at 16:44:17
Drew #23,

He has been frozen out by the manager after coming into the team and doing well.

Kelvin Thomas
25 Posted 16/05/2015 at 16:51:13
Very, very good win. Well done, Rom, and McGeady was excellent when he came on.
Jermaine Jennings
26 Posted 16/05/2015 at 16:53:58
I donĂ‚’t like RM but he seems to get results when he needs to save his skin. McGeady for once was good when he came on.
Darryl Ritchie
27 Posted 16/05/2015 at 16:54:00
HowĂ‚’s bout that!!!
Michael Kenrick
28 Posted 16/05/2015 at 16:55:28
Well, I thought Lukaku was gash all game, but that was a great winner! Well done, you big lummox!
Phil Sammon
29 Posted 16/05/2015 at 16:55:43
For all his faults, McGeady will always get crosses in.
Clive Rogers
30 Posted 16/05/2015 at 16:55:51
Think that will be the last we see of Lennon.
Gavin Johnson
31 Posted 16/05/2015 at 16:54:04
A win at the Ă‚’Ammers is standard and good to see that we ground out the usual result.

Good to see McGeady in the mix for the second goal. I hope he can become a useful squad player for us next season and weigh in with a few more assists like todayĂ‚’s contribution.

Ross Edwards
32 Posted 16/05/2015 at 17:01:41
Very happy with the win. And weĂ‚’re in the top half. And McGeady did something. Phenomenal.
Tony Hill
33 Posted 16/05/2015 at 16:56:50
I was pleased that Galloway played. Obviously, he has a long way to go but I think heĂ‚’s a real prospect. I agree with John DaleyĂ‚’s concerns but sometimes, and when you least expect it, things come right. ThatĂ‚’s what weĂ‚’ll all got to hope for this summer and for the new season.

I understand why people think that getting EL football again for the club would be a good thing, but I donĂ‚’t and am glad we got the 4 yellows. Nice win, too, and must be the first time for a long while that we came from behind to take the points...

Jay Wood
35 Posted 16/05/2015 at 16:55:31
So ... who is the better defensive player? Galloway, or Garbutt? Read the tea leaves. Luke will not be signing a new contract with us and is gone. Great debut by the lad.

And ... 1st time weĂ‚’ve won a PL game from a losing position since February 2014 (2-1 home to Villa). Saved from the shame of going through an entire season without doing so in the final minute of the penultimate game. Phenomenal...

Eddie Dunn
36 Posted 16/05/2015 at 17:04:27
Collins off injured early on and an 18-year-old in his place. We were better without Barkey but it took an hour of turgid shite and them scoring before we woke-up and had a proper go.

If only we could start off like that.

Chris Leyland
37 Posted 16/05/2015 at 17:06:07
What a shite waste of space 20 goal a season striker. ThatĂ‚’s his 71st start for us and his 36th goal.
Milos Milenkovic
38 Posted 16/05/2015 at 17:09:37
Actually Lukaku was great after Mirallas and McGeady came on. We are very lucky to have Lukaku, but he needs support up front and help from the wings. Our problem is playing with defensive midfielders and very often with isolated striker.
Kelvin Thomas
39 Posted 16/05/2015 at 17:10:44
All out effort to beat Spurs and move on to better things next season.
Drew O'Neall
40 Posted 16/05/2015 at 17:10:44
Sounds like Lukaku could have had 5 today... Glad he found the net in the end.
Jon Cox
41 Posted 16/05/2015 at 17:05:36
Mark, some posters call it as it is. I saw the game today and I thought Lukaku apart from the obvious was rubbish.

How does a guy with no ball control whatsoever get to become a pro footballer?

Jamie Barlow
42 Posted 16/05/2015 at 17:14:34
Jim@14, yeah he scored and got an assist. He played quite well.
Kevin Rowlands
43 Posted 16/05/2015 at 17:12:30
I agree Michael, I was getting ready to come on here and slate Lukaku who was awful till that last minute, thought McGeady was excellent, if he can be more consistent we donĂ‚’t need Lennon, especially at ٧ mill.
Jamie Barlow
44 Posted 16/05/2015 at 17:20:26
He wasnĂ‚’t awful at all. He was shite first half like the rest of them. Everything was too slow as usual until West Ham scored and then we picked it up and started getting the ball forward quicker.

Same every time. Play to his strengths, like we did after we went a goal behind, and heĂ‚’s a fantastic striker.

Eric Myles
45 Posted 16/05/2015 at 16:59:19
Clive #24, GarbuttĂ‚’s contract expires in a few weeks so itĂ‚’s pretty obvious heĂ‚’s not staying, so why play him? Better off trying out an understudy for Baines who will actually be here next season.
Mike Byrne
46 Posted 16/05/2015 at 17:41:12
Karl Jones (#9) – quite simply, he has him on the bench as cover. He is still under contract and if he is needed to step us as cover then he should do.

Jim Bennings
47 Posted 16/05/2015 at 17:42:20
Lukaku is the type of guy that needs to play in a team thatĂ‚’s playing with intensity and getting support around him which once Mirallas came on for the abysmal Barkley, we started doing.

CanĂ‚’t help but feel Barkley prevents us flowing freely, starting to look like another James McFadden in my opinion, clearly has some football skills but just hogs the ball and basically frustrates both his teammates and fans alike.

Kevin Rowlands
48 Posted 16/05/2015 at 17:34:04
Ă‚’Play to his strengthsĂ‚’ – could you enlighten us on what they are Jamie? If you read nearly all of the above posts nearly everyone agrees that he was in fact awful and if he hadnĂ‚’t scored in that last minute he would be getting properly slated right now.

Each to his own I suppose, but for someone who canĂ‚’t head the ball, has terrible control, canĂ‚’t play a simple pass, canĂ‚’t trap a ball, has terrible positional awareness, crap attitude, thinks he is way better than he actually is, other than that Jamie, heĂ‚’s fucking brilliant!

Graham Mockford
49 Posted 16/05/2015 at 17:34:23
So the season has drifted towards mid table mediocrity, probably a bit better than we might have expected 9 games ago but certainly worse than we would have hoped for last August.

I think the main issue is going to be that with a limited transfer budget how much is going to realistically change.

On a positive we still have the basis of a good back five. I know Tim is unpopular with many but for me scarce transfer resources canĂ‚’t be wasted on a keeper. The other four pick themselves.

I would cash in now on Barkley, it would give us a cash injection that may provide an impetus if we could bring in a couple of quality players with the proceeds. IĂ‚’ve tried to keep faith with him but he has been really poor most of the season and despite occasional touches of quality most of the time he has made us a poorer side. The 㿊m you would probably get now is less than a year ago and the danger is it may continue to reduce if he has another season like this one. Unfortunately I suspect Martinez has painted himself into a corner and wouldnĂ‚’t contemplate it.

Paul Jeronovich
50 Posted 16/05/2015 at 17:45:24
The comments about Lukaku are are a bit harsh. He is definitely the best striker weĂ‚’ve had in years. Young, strong and if given the right service will score goals. I agree he has a lazy streak and like most young footballers he thinks heĂ‚’s better than he is. Thing is he has scored goals for us and has real potential regardless of price tag.
Ross Hutchinson
51 Posted 16/05/2015 at 17:13:00
IĂ‚’m thinking Garbutt was left out because he hasnĂ‚’t committed to the new contract which has been offered to him.

Why should he be chosen when thereĂ‚’s a chance he might not be here next season? Why should Martinez start using Garbutt in his plans when he could easily leave? Martinez needs to plan for next season with players who are committed to Everton. Playing Garbutt at this stage is only going to put him in the shop window for everyone else to see his ability, giving other teams an opportunity to get him on the cheap. Not playing him may give us a better chance of keeping him as not everyone will have seen him play meaning there may not be as many teams coming in for him. It also give others fighting for that position an opportunity to stake their claim.

GarbuttĂ‚’s situation though, should have been sorted out along time ago, last summer, even. Martinez has to take the blame for that. A couple of weeks ago, after the Man Utd win I thought Martinez maybe deserved another chance but after last weeks result against Sunderland, I really donĂ‚’t know again?

Anyway, very good result today.

Phil Walling
52 Posted 16/05/2015 at 17:42:29
DidnĂ‚’t bother to go into Pafos to watch game but listened to OS broadcast – or rather gist of it!

Barkley had another stinker, apparently, and should have been replaced by Mirallas much earlier. Beginning to think, he is being indulged too much and has made little progress this season. Unlikely to attract any decent money so guess he will have yet another season to bloom.

A top-half finish looks a likelihood now so RM will be a fixture. But better that than a relegation spot which would have done for him.

Lyndon Lloyd
53 Posted 16/05/2015 at 17:53:07
Lukaku wasnĂ‚’t awful by any measure today. He was simply bang average until the last 20 minutes when we finally started to play. And then he had a decent shot turned behind and scored the winner.

Frankly, if he did absolutely nothing but put the ball in the net every time he got some decent service, I wouldnĂ‚’t care. ItĂ‚’s the service that is key and I can only think of a couple of games (Leicester at home and last weekend against Sunderand) where he has really let us down in that regard.

Paul Thompson
54 Posted 16/05/2015 at 17:49:12
We were average to poor until Barkley went off. With Mirallas on, we had more fluidity and moved the ball better. Could have had 2 or 3 in the last 15 mins. Two good goals in front of our excellent fans.

Stones absolute class at the back and Coleman looked good at times. Galloway grew into the game and with him a left footer, he will eventually line up along Stones. Not a bad day out at all.

Paul Andrews
55 Posted 16/05/2015 at 18:01:59
Lyndon, 53, I couldnĂ‚’t agree more.

Absolutely spot on

Ajay Gopal
56 Posted 16/05/2015 at 17:45:38
Some posters must be gnashing their teeth after todayĂ‚’s win:

Osman is shit – err, no – he scored a great goal
Wait, Lukaku is a waste of space – no, 1 assist and 1 goal
At least McGeady is the worst Everton player ever – sorry lads, he played quite well actually, and got an assist.
Well, in any case, Martinez has to go – we should get Tim Sherwood. Now, there is a real manager who knows how to get his teams to win – bugger, his team got hammered 6-1 today.

I hate to make a dig at my fellow Evertonians, but the negativity of some of the posters all through the week (the Distin story, the Luke Garbutt issue) to vent their vitriol on the Everton manager had almost put me off this site. Thank god for todayĂ‚’s win. Sure, we have had a disappointing season, but shit happens, and we have to get behind the manager and the players that we have – not always dreaming of the next manager that we will get or the next dream players who will magically make us win the league.

Having got that off my chest, well done to young Galloway – a very impressive debut against a fast and physical side. Not a vintage performance by the team by any stretch of the imagination, but the team showed a desire to turn things around and that will do for me this season.

Colin Glassar
57 Posted 16/05/2015 at 18:00:58
As I said yesterday, we have a good record so I wasnĂ‚’t surprised by the result. The exclusion of Garbutt hints at a summer exit. If so, why was he even on the bench?
Mike Byrne
59 Posted 16/05/2015 at 18:10:33
Ajay - well said mate
Tony Hill
60 Posted 16/05/2015 at 18:00:46
Lyndon (53) - LukakuĂ‚’s scoring record is excellent and that is a simple fact over the course of his short career. I disagree though that he has only let us down in a couple of games; his touch and effort have been generally woeful this season.

What is mysterious is that he obviously has it in him to hold the ball up and lead the line as he showed in that patch of excellent form recently. I suspect that he is one of those who has grown to regard the manager as hopeless and is also suffering from excessive self-esteem, so he plays when it pleases him.

Martinez has, though, undeniably used a system for most of the season that does nothing to play to the strengths of our costliest signing and that is the biggest shame of all. If we do play to his strengths - get the ball to him accurately from a proper number 10 and from the flanks, with speed - then I still think he could be a major asset, if only until his tit of an agent wants him out.

HeĂ‚’ll be with us next season so letĂ‚’s hope for vastly better service, 30 goals and a very big sale price in summer 2016.

Michael Kenrick
61 Posted 16/05/2015 at 18:06:42
IĂ‚’m sorry but this Ă‚’lack of serviceĂ‚’ thing is a complete red herring.

Countless times today, Lukaku received the ball to feet (or head) in good to excellent positions — I call that top class service — and on 95% of those occasions, the ball bounced off him in some utterly bizarre direction that defied comprehension. His body language is simply horrible. His positioning is mostly well off what it needs to be... His effort is almost completely absent when itĂ‚’s needed.

But... he made the cross (slightly deflected) that set up Osman for his superbly finished goal. And, at the very end of the game, Lukaku timed his run perfectly and applied much needed effort to get behind the defender and power home an excellent header that won the game.

Great stuff ... but it doesnĂ‚’t negate or excuse the preceding dross in any way. He had loads of really splendid service. He just canĂ‚’t hack it most of the time.

Tony Hill
62 Posted 16/05/2015 at 18:20:29
But, Michael, who gives a toss provided the return is good enough? Lukaku does have the touch and mobility and, indeed, the strength when he chooses and we have all seen him do it, both last season and, about 2 months ago, for a period this season. It is there.

Yes. heĂ‚’s been largely awful and I certainly donĂ‚’t excuse that but to say that the service to him doesnĂ‚’t matter or that his being played on his own in front of the most ponderous midfield that I can remember at our club doesnĂ‚’t matter, is unfair.

Frank McGregor
63 Posted 16/05/2015 at 18:19:05
I believe Garbutt wasnĂ‚’t playing today as has already made up his mind to leave.

I fully expect him to be playing for Liverpool next season.

Dave Williams
64 Posted 16/05/2015 at 18:15:35
Ajay and Mike – well said chaps!

Lukaku is frustrating but at 21 is terribly young for a main striker and his goals record is really good. Gary Lineker was useless with his back to goal at the same age but put the ball ahead of him and he scored goals. Rom needs the service to be right and a fast tempo,
thatĂ‚’s all.

Oh and a word for Ossie – gets terrible stick from a minority on this site but more than anyone he makes this team play. Yes, he isnĂ‚’t perfect and has his faults but we will miss him when he retires.

As for Garbutt he didnĂ‚’t look too good last time out and I am not convinced he is top class. Shame to lose him but Galloway looks decent as a future centre back.

Kelvin Thomas
65 Posted 16/05/2015 at 18:27:51
Well said Ajay. Saved me half an hour writing a similar post.
Trevor Lynes
66 Posted 16/05/2015 at 18:24:43
We should go all out to sign either Delph or Puncheon, they are both creative with great ball control.

I would spend good money on Bolasie too as he is worth going for.

This lad frightens defences with his pace and strength and would really lift Goodison.

Kevin Rowlands
67 Posted 16/05/2015 at 18:23:55
Michael, you forgot the other excuse: "HeĂ‚’s still young".

IĂ‚’m sorry but for me heĂ‚’s a terrible footballer; the ladĂ‚’s a man mountain but gets bossed around regularly. Last week, Wes fucking Brown and that RS reject didnĂ‚’t give him a sniff.

I agree that his goals have been important but to actually see him play is painful most of the time. And btw – you and I arenĂ‚’t the only one who thinks heĂ‚’s bog average: see Jose Mourinho and Marc Wilmots.

Michael Kenrick
68 Posted 16/05/2015 at 18:29:48
IĂ‚’m not saying the service "doesnĂ‚’t matter", Tony. IĂ‚’m saying heĂ‚’s got good enough service to be doing one hell of a lot better with the ball than he is doing. Simple as that.

IĂ‚’m not saying the service couldnĂ‚’t be better, but that often needs something from the player himself as well, to be getting into positions where the ball is being played in... keeping himself onside (he did a lot better in that respect today), etc.

How many touches did he have today? To claim Ă‚’lack of serviceĂ‚’ is simply wrong.

ps: What did the banner have in the bottom left corner? "--- is plenty?" I couldnĂ‚’t see it properly.

Paul Smith
69 Posted 16/05/2015 at 18:44:39
MK it said "㿀Ă‚’s is plenty for away fans" (fans football federation). It wasnĂ‚’t the only one there today - Kenwright out banners were scattered about as well.

Good game, good win. Rom was gash, but he does have an eye for a goal.

Amit Vithlani
72 Posted 16/05/2015 at 18:38:23
Lukaku had plenty of chances against Sunderland and today and frankly his goal return should be higher - he is taking penalties remember. That said, I think he will mature into a top EPL forward and his price tag reflects his potential. I will not forget his strength in shielding those Dynamo Kiev defenders before setting up Naismith nor his goal against Arsenal last season.

As for Martinez, yes Its a nice feeling to win, especially having ended our duck of more than year since we won a league game having gone behind.

Does it change my view that he should be sacked? Nope. We have squandered the talent of our squad and gone backwards this season. We are further behind in our desire to compete with the top 4, which was the premise on which Martinez was hired. There have been far too many poor performances and poor results to overlook.

The comparison with Tim Sherwood is interesting. Not my choice to be the man, but he has delivered on what he was hired to do, which was make Villa safe. On top of that, they have got to a cup final and in Benteke have a forward who has been totally rejuvenated. Their prospects for next season are surely better for next season. The cold hard truth is that Martinez failed this season and we have a long mountain to climb if we are to become top 4 challengers again. Worse, the damage is self inflicted with his insistence to tinker with the team and revert to a style of play which has proven itself repeatedly to produce poor performances and results.

Michael Kenrick
73 Posted 16/05/2015 at 18:54:34
Apparently not, Paul; (See LyndonĂ‚’s post below). I thought it might be "20 years"... rather than "㿀"... and there wasnĂ‚’t enough room for the Ă‚’away fans" bit.
Max Wilson
74 Posted 16/05/2015 at 18:56:53
Ah yes, in the final analysis we wonned. 90th minute or not, missed this and that, we wonned! So be happy and go for a bevy. And no the manager wonĂ‚’t get the sack will he?
Ross Edwards
75 Posted 16/05/2015 at 18:59:14
Sorry, Ajay, to piss on your grand soliloquy but you mock Tim Sherwood for being beaten 6-1 in your defence of Martinez, who ironically has been on the receiving end of several batterings in his career himself.

9-1 at White Hart Lane, 8-0 at Stamford Bridge, 6-0 at home against Chelsea, a 4-0 home defeat against Blackpool, etc.

Just because weĂ‚’ve won today, it doesnĂ‚’t automatically mean that youĂ‚’re right and IĂ‚’m wrong to want him out.

Mike Hughes
76 Posted 16/05/2015 at 18:54:55
A good day in the end. The Mighty Blues nicked it at the death. And 4 yellow cards as well – should put paid to any backdoor Europa League entry.

It doesnĂ‚’t cover the cracks for what has been the most anaemic season for decades – little in the way of excitement, cut-and-thrust, edge-of-the-seat stuff.

To quote The Stranglers, something better change.

Lyndon Lloyd
77 Posted 16/05/2015 at 19:03:16
Tony (60): I disagree though that he has only let us down in a couple of games; his touch and effort have been generally woeful this season.

I agree in that respect but I was talking specifically about missed chances in front of goal which is primarily what he is paid for.

And when I talk about service, IĂ‚’m talking about the ball in front of him in the box where he thrives. We all know by now what Lukaku is about – he isnĂ‚’t yet (and may never be) a hold-the-ball-up, back-to-goal striker.

He is often a lethal goalscorer when he can run behind opposition defences or when the ball is loose in front of goal. He has suffered so much this season because he has been isolated and asked to play the kind of game he isnĂ‚’t yet suited to.

His first touch has improved but remains iffy and his layoffs often go astray, but put in the right areas and he scores goals. We just donĂ‚’t do that nearly enough.

------------

Michael: What did the banner have in the bottom left corner? "--- is plenty?"

It was doing the rounds on Twitter yesterday and said: "Kenwright and Co. ItĂ‚’s time to go. 20 yrs is plenty"

Aidy Dews
78 Posted 16/05/2015 at 18:58:29
Well that was a good 3 points tbf. Very even Steven first half, every bit the feel of an end of season game, second half it livened up and we probably shaved it!

Was a bit surprised with Galloway starting ahead of Garbutt but he more than justified his selection, a very good debut, MOTM for me! He made one or two mistakes, especially allowing Downing to manoeuvre into space to get the shot off for his goal but apart from that he was solid, hardly got beat and what I liked about him was, was that he played like he never wanted to get beat, he got tight and made the opposition work hard to get by him, very encouraging debut!

Jags & Stones were solid aswell, Coleman was improved, Barry played alright for a change, made his usual silly tackles and got his customary booking! Apart from Osman, the rest in the final 3 were terrible for me. Lukaku cant hold water, and his link up play wasnĂ‚’t great, had no movement either. Barkley just amazes me, was brilliant last season but is a shadow of tha player this season and today. Every time he got the ball in the final third he always played back, never once turned and went forward. And Lennon kept leaving Coleman expose and wasnĂ‚’t much of a threat today, aswell as the last few games and I donĂ‚’t think heĂ‚’ll be back next season! And ive slagged McGeady off in the past saying heĂ‚’s not upto it in prem but he came on and played well!

All in all it was a good 3 points and another young gem probably unearthed in Galloway!

John Raftery
79 Posted 16/05/2015 at 19:06:28
Lukaku is a Ă‚’useless BelgianĂ‚’? Twenty goals this season! IĂ‚’ll take that.

Good decision to try Galloway. Garbutt has not convinced me he is good enough for the top level and who knows what his wage demands are?

Plato Stavrinos
80 Posted 16/05/2015 at 19:10:22
Well said Ajay.
Gavin Johnson
81 Posted 16/05/2015 at 19:17:13
Good posts Ajay. As always, well balanced and never reactionary.
David Greenwood
83 Posted 16/05/2015 at 19:22:09
Good stuff Ajay.
Colin Glassar
84 Posted 16/05/2015 at 19:24:38
Take a bow Ajay.
Dave Ganley
85 Posted 16/05/2015 at 19:22:39
What a great day....we snatch it at the death and now the RS are giving that bastard Gerrard a losing bow over at the khazi across the park. A win is a win so I shall take that today... so well done boys for turning out around. Beer in hand... happy day
Kevin Rowlands
86 Posted 16/05/2015 at 19:25:19
LetĂ‚’s break the bank for Bolasie, far better option than Lennon, heĂ‚’s just ripped the RS defense to shreds.
Martin Mason
91 Posted 16/05/2015 at 19:24:22
A wonderful day for the Blues, very happy for the win, how we did it and the performances of key players especially the superb Leon Osman. Topped off by the good win for Palace to spoil GerrardĂ‚’s parade especially with a penalty that was definitely outside of the box.

I donĂ‚’t share the negativity about Lukaku, heĂ‚’s a natural goalscorer and heĂ‚’s going to get a lot better. Many good sides now donĂ‚’t have a classic back-to-goal ball holding striker and itĂ‚’s up to Martinez to play a system where we play to LukakuĂ‚’s massive strengths. This means progressing the ball fast and wide and getting the ball to him when his momentum is forward. Playing the ball up through the middle and expecting him to hold the ball up is a 20-year-old tactic and we never use it to success against teams that defend well. They know LukakuĂ‚’s danger and how to neutralise it. I still see a diamond in him even though he has a lot to learn, I believe heĂ‚’ll be a massive asset.

Does anybody know whatĂ‚’s happened with Browning? He seemed so promising...

Steve Brown
92 Posted 16/05/2015 at 19:32:06
Great post Ajay, a pleasure to read a balanced post rather than the usual dull, turgid abuse.
Paul Smith
93 Posted 16/05/2015 at 19:38:36


MK not sure if this link works but there was also a banner stating what I suggested in my earlier post:

http://t.co/xEyvCZTzbB

Geoff Evans
94 Posted 16/05/2015 at 19:35:34
Good result today, pleased for the magnificent 3,000 who travelled, best supporters in the land, by far.
Patrick Murphy
95 Posted 16/05/2015 at 19:37:29
Well said Phil - IĂ‚’ve been off-line for the last two hours expecting the other lot to win by a bagful and Stevie Me scoring a 3 minute hat-trick all from the penalty spot - so itĂ‚’s the Europe League for them next year, not that it will make much difference to them as they often play on a Sunday for the TV cameras anyway.

As for today I have to agree with those that saw a substandard performance from our costly striker, he is similar to Barkley; they seem to believe they only have to be on the pitch to earn their corn. If both are still at Goodison at the start of next season they will have to put in more effort than they did today. But overall we just about deserved our victory for the effort and desire to score in the last 20 minutes or so, although the team should be doing far more, even though it was an end of season game.

Christopher Wallace
96 Posted 16/05/2015 at 19:26:53
IĂ‚’m with you Ajay. I often avoid ToffeeWeb because of the amount of negativity. I know that it isnĂ‚’t always entirely misplaced, but it can be depressing.

I then come back on after a win sin miedo, only to be confronted by more bloody negativity. There are a lot of people in life that just love a good moan - in sure we all know a few - and this place seems to attract, or create, quite a few.

Or maybe itĂ‚’s Everton FC - IĂ‚’m only 28, so I may also become a miserable git in a few years!

Rant over (maybe IĂ‚’m nearly there - moaning about negativity!)

Stephen Brown
97 Posted 16/05/2015 at 19:45:59
Fair point, Phil – it is off and no Sunday papers for me tomorrow!
Ross Edwards
98 Posted 16/05/2015 at 19:41:46
Please donĂ‚’t dismiss this season so readily Ajay by saying Ă‚’shit happensĂ‚’.
Colin Glassar
99 Posted 16/05/2015 at 19:52:07
IĂ‚’m quickly running out of hats but, hats off to you as well Martin Mason. I donĂ‚’t care if Lukaku misses 10 sitters a game as long as he bags 1-2 a game.
Jason Murray
100 Posted 16/05/2015 at 19:59:10
IĂ‚’ve never felt more like Singing the Blues...
Michael Ward
101 Posted 16/05/2015 at 19:53:57
supporter
sə-ˈpȯr-tər

a person who is actively interested in and wishes success for a particular sports team.

ToffeeWeb certianly fits the interested part....

Dave Abrahams
103 Posted 16/05/2015 at 19:35:23
Made up for all the fans who went to the game, I was out with my young grandson all afternoon and, for the first time that I can remember, never thought about Everton or the match. I canĂ‚’t believe that: it wasnĂ‚’t a conscious thing to not care about the blues, it just happened.

Look what youĂ‚’ve done to me Martinez!!!!!

By the way, I was very happy with the result but canĂ‚’t comment on the way the team played.

John Malone
104 Posted 16/05/2015 at 20:10:44
IĂ‚’d have a bash with that Bolasie he might be a bit hit and miss like McGeady but heĂ‚’s a game changer he damages teams on his own and can play anywhere across the top!!
Patrick Murphy
105 Posted 16/05/2015 at 20:12:34
Obviously I hope this doesnĂ‚’t happen as it would mean Everton losing the final game of the season, but the scenario that the other lot finish in seventh place and Aston Villa lift the cup would mean they may have to rely on the fair play league to get into Europe – irony indeed.
Dave Abrahams
106 Posted 16/05/2015 at 20:17:16
Patrick I donĂ‚’t care how Liverpool get into the Europa LeagueI just want them in it, itĂ‚’s a handicap league as far as IĂ‚’m concerned.
Nick Waters
107 Posted 16/05/2015 at 20:08:01
IĂ‚’ll add my appreciation for AjayĂ‚’s post to the others in the thread. His refusal to succumb to the prevailing Martinez-bashing (even on a day when we had 21 attempts on goal away from home) is right. Recent threads have been full of people jumping on that bandwagon.

Many of the comments surrounding Garbutt today are critical of the manager despite ignorance of the exact background details, and there is no evidence that the lad is anything but a deputy anyway.

Ross, your comments about Martinez as Wigan manager need some perspective. Have you noticed where theyĂ‚’ve gone since he left them? Or perhaps he is to blame for their mismanagement this season?

John Keating
109 Posted 16/05/2015 at 20:29:30
Great result today! Four bookings

Hopefully we can maintain this phenomenal achievement against Spurs next week.

Score, win? WhoĂ‚’s interested?

Kevin Rowlands
110 Posted 16/05/2015 at 20:29:01
Agree Ross, have to laugh at posters having a go for negativity because we won a throwaway game today in the last minute, the negativity stems from a dire fucking season, not todayĂ‚’s play or result.
David Greenwood
111 Posted 16/05/2015 at 20:33:42
Michael @101. Short, sweet and to the point. Nice one.
Kevin Rowlands
112 Posted 16/05/2015 at 20:35:53
Colin, if Lukaku bags one or two a game and misses ten sitters and we lose the game 2-1 or 3-2, would you still be happy about that?
Chris Gould
113 Posted 16/05/2015 at 20:19:28
Unfortunately IĂ‚’ll never have faith in Martinez again after this shambles of a season....BUT you canĂ‚’t criticise the man when we have come from behind and won away from home against a fairly solid team.

Lukaku, more often than not, makes poor runs. They are either asking too much of the player in possession or mistimed. This is something that he can work on and will hopefully improve on.

Yes, his service has been average, but he makes it look worse than it is. Too often you see him pointing where he wants it, and itĂ‚’s an impossible ball with defenders easily nullifying the threat. He needs to watch Suarez.

Michael Kenrick
115 Posted 16/05/2015 at 20:36:49
Paul (#93), thatĂ‚’s not what was shown at the game.

This one was hand-written, white on blue, and said "Kenwright & Co, Time to Go"

Maybe someone can find a link to the image?

Paul Andrews
116 Posted 16/05/2015 at 20:44:16
Lukaku is a one in two goal scorer in his relatively short career.

All one in two goal scorers have plenty of missed chances in their cv. It goes with the territory.

Darren Hind
117 Posted 16/05/2015 at 19:51:27
I Think it was Glen Hoddle who said Andy Cole needed 3-4 Chances to score one. but he still scored an awful lot of goals. perhaps Lukaku could be the same.

Ajay your claim that Evertonians will be gnashing their teeth after a win is utter bollocks. If this thread stayed alive for a year I bet nobody would come on here and say that. You may have received support from the apologists who seem to want to make this sort of claim every time we win, but itĂ‚’s nonsense.

Tens of thousands of matchgoers make absolutely no secret of the fact that they think our manager has been garbage all season, but they still love the team. You are simply deluding yourself if you think you enjoy a victory more than they do

Their is a difference between supporting the club and supporting the manager. If youĂ‚’re upset by the criticism he receives on TW, I suggest you stay away from the Old Lady

Karl Jones
118 Posted 16/05/2015 at 20:45:59
"Kenwright and co its time to go 20 yrs is plenty". Photo on the nsno.co.uk website
Patrick Murphy
119 Posted 16/05/2015 at 20:47:46
HereĂ‚’s the link to the banner that Karl mentions.
Banner
Nick Waters
120 Posted 16/05/2015 at 20:46:24
Darren, what has being upset by TW comments about the manager got to do with attendance or otherwise at Goodison?
James Marshall
121 Posted 16/05/2015 at 20:46:18
I havenĂ‚’t read the thread, but just got back from the game after stopping off to watch StevieĂ‚’s big send-off in a pub full of RS - leaping up each time Palace scored and waving Captain Fantastic off the pitch was a great joy...

As for the game at the Boleyn - we played very well for most of the game, with flashes of good work from every player, and occasional lapses from a few - Barkley being the worst culprit but he seems to be growing a pair and making a few tackles, as well as not being afraid to make mistakes which is good for him.

Macca was a driving force again, and Ossie is still the best football brain at the club by a country mile. LukakuĂ‚’s touch was missing as usual but he scored the winner so he can play like crap every game as long as he scores a goal - thatĂ‚’s what heĂ‚’s there for.

Even McGeady played well in the short time he was on the pitch.

IĂ‚’ll be sad to see Lennon leave as he gives us so much going forward and backwards - his workrate is really impressive and even though he may not stop every attack, he slows them down massively which gives other players the chance to get back into defensive positions - I canĂ‚’t stress how important heĂ‚’s been for us in the latter half of the season.

Bobby made the right calls today, against a decent West Ham side who clearly wanted to win the game, and how anyone could be unhappy with coming from a goal down in an away game to win in the 93rd minute is beyond me! The blues in attendance were delirious at the end, and rightly so :-)

Gavin Johnson
122 Posted 16/05/2015 at 20:47:51
My near 30 years as an Everton supporter mustnĂ‚’t count for anything then... I didnĂ‚’t realise I was a Martinez supporter over the team I love - Just because I donĂ‚’t want to read negativity morning, noon and night, after a win.

Darren Hind
123 Posted 16/05/2015 at 20:49:45
Because Nick, IMO TW offers a pretty true reflection Evertonia.

You cant really be suggesting that of all those thousands of fans who criticise Martinez and want him gone gone, its only those who post on TW who will be "Nashing their teeth" ?

Its a silly suggestion and it stinks of trying to take away the pleasure of a victory from those who didnt happy clap through what has been a desperate season

Harold Matthews
124 Posted 16/05/2015 at 20:36:15
True Ajay. The vitriolic lynch mob have caused many people to quit the site. We used to have a regular laugh but those days are well and truly gone.
Darren Hind
125 Posted 16/05/2015 at 20:58:15
Sorry Nick meant to say : if the criticism of Martinez is too difficult to bear on ToffeeWeb then it would be wise to give the Old Lady a wide berth. . . because its 20 times greater
James Marshall
126 Posted 16/05/2015 at 20:58:44
I have to agree with those who avoid TW on matchdays now - IĂ‚’ve taken a step back from the live forum for one, and donĂ‚’t bother to read too much of the complaining on here either - itĂ‚’s bad enough that weĂ‚’ve had a shit season, but TW just feels like youĂ‚’re having your nose rubbed in it by your fellow supporters.

Everyone has a valid opinion, thatĂ‚’s what makes football so great, but itĂ‚’s not healthy to moan even when we win. Sadly Evertonians are pissed off which is fair enough, but IĂ‚’ve chosen not to have the joy taken out of the game.

Ian McDowell
128 Posted 16/05/2015 at 21:00:36
What a day. 2-1 away with a last minute winner then when you think it canĂ‚’t get any better Palace batter the RS 3-1 at Anfield in Stevie MeeĂ‚’s last game. Only down side I had Palace to win 3-2 @ 55/1.

COYB!!

Tony Hill
130 Posted 16/05/2015 at 20:47:37
The stats are straightforward. LukakuĂ‚’s record stands comparison with the best at his age. I agree his touch and hold up have been mainly terrible, and are infuriating, but heĂ‚’s paid by us to score goals without regard to aesthetics. It is apparent that he is not without the ability, merely that he arrogantly chooses when (and if) he will exercise it.

The point I tried to make above is that he is a natural scorer who, over the course of the season and despite his ineptitude (which is born of sulkiness), has been badly served by the managerĂ‚’s formations and by the most arthritic midfield I can remember.

Play him in a coherent and confident side, ideally with a striking partner/ serious Number 10, and you will have a massive asset.

I don"t think heĂ‚’s going to be with us very long because he is a young narcissist and he has a eurotrash agent, but letĂ‚’s not just dismiss him as a floppy Belgian.

I remember Drogba being compared to a dog chasing a balloon. How we laughed and how we all agreed.

Patrick Murphy
131 Posted 16/05/2015 at 21:05:31
Over 3,000 people have voted on the player of the season so TW seems to represent a good portion of the fan-base, if people have different points of view why not post your opinion on the site? Avoiding it because its seen as negative is not the way to get a balanced view.

Today there were good things to see and not so good things to see. As the Echo pointed out about RomeluĂ‚’s performance, he showed four sides to his game today – if he can work a little harder and show more desire there is undoubtedly a 20 Premier League goals a season player in there, which is why many of us get so frustrated with him; itĂ‚’s more about his attitude rather than his abilities.

Kevin Tully
133 Posted 16/05/2015 at 21:02:35
Ă‚’Just because we won a throwaway gameĂ‚’

Would that post read "Just because we lost a throwaway game"

Would. It. Fuck. Give yer head a wobble.

Des Farren
135 Posted 16/05/2015 at 21:02:20
Delighted for Osman, McGeady and Lukaku today because they donĂ‚’t deserve the tripe regularly dished to them on here.

Also pleased with many positive comments for a change instead of the weekly bash Martinez threads.

And Michael, if Rom canĂ‚’t hack it most of the time, and still score 20 goals, your expectations for a lad of his age are unrealistic... a big useless Belgian? Really?

Ajay, the kind of post that makes me keep the faith with this site.

Bill Gall
136 Posted 16/05/2015 at 21:06:21
Nick #107 Regarding your remarks about Martinez when Wigan manager. Have you noticed where they have gone since he left them?

After 4 seasons at the bottom of the table, he finally got them relegated and then showed his true character by informing the Chairman that he did not feel he was the man to lead them back into the Premier League. After that, he continued to turn the knife by taking his backroom staff and some of his supposed better players to Everton. This led to a practically complete overhaul of WiganĂ‚’s team. No, he may not be to blame for this seasonĂ‚’s mismanagement but he sure left them in a precarious position.

Never seen or listened to todayĂ‚’s game at West Ham so I cannot comment on the performance apart from itĂ‚’s great to get 3 points.

Michael Kenrick
137 Posted 16/05/2015 at 21:33:25
Yea, youĂ‚’re right, Des (#135)... Expecting that I might celebrate more than just one measly goal by our 㿈M Big Belgian from open play in more than half a season of Premier League games... that really is unrealistic, isnĂ‚’t it.

IĂ‚’m going to lie down now and recalibrate.

Des Farren
138 Posted 16/05/2015 at 21:37:20
You omitted "useless" Michael.
Shame for an Editor to be so remiss..
Jon Cox
139 Posted 16/05/2015 at 21:36:29
Christopher Wallace,

Stop being so negative!

Christopher Wallace
140 Posted 16/05/2015 at 21:34:35
Darren

If you think that criticism of Martinez is the only negativity on TW, then you truly are the deluded one.

Jon Cox
142 Posted 16/05/2015 at 21:47:06
Patrick,

"RomeluĂ‚’s performance, he showed four sides to his game today"

Romelu, from now on, should be known as Big Ben. The c*ock that is.

Andy Crooks
145 Posted 16/05/2015 at 21:51:34
Harold (#124), IĂ‚’m really surprised at your post. There is no "vitriolic lynch mob", just Evertonians giving their honest opinion on our coach. So people are staying away from the site because of negativity. What, because they might read the views of people who disagree with them? God almighty... Should this be PollyannaWeb?

Great result today. I have faith in Lukaku, good start from Galloway, MotD tonight.

Guy Hastings
146 Posted 16/05/2015 at 22:07:26
Lineker used to say something along the lines that no-one notices your ten misses if the eleventh goes in and wins the game. I did.
Jon Cox
147 Posted 16/05/2015 at 21:52:30
"And Michael, if Rom canĂ‚’t hack it most of the time, and still score 20 goals, your expectations for a lad of his age are unrealistic... a big useless Belgian? Really?"

No Des,

Not sure about Michael but for me IĂ‚’m a thinking that if we spend 㿈M on a centre-forward, I want the sum total of the Father, Son and Holy bloody Ghost up front for us.

That means the equivalent of Gascoigne, Lineker and Joe Royle in one player. Maybe you are happy with 10th spot in the league but IĂ‚’m not.

In fact, IĂ‚’m as angry as hell and my girlfriend is as well. (YouĂ‚’ll be hearing from her too in the near distant future.)

I want a centre-forward that says, "Bollox, give me the ball and IĂ‚’ll do the rest!" What I donĂ‚’t want is the fact that the team all has to conform to one particular player so that he looks good and scores goals.

I want a team that has midfield generals and wizards who can seasonally score 10/12 goals each which then tells the striker to sort himself out, contribute to the team i.e. learn how to control a ball being passed to him and then be able to dribble past at least three defenders and be composed enough to put the ball away into the onion bag with copious amounts of aplomb.

IĂ‚’m really into Lukaku but in future he needs to learn his trade or else....

Ross Edwards
148 Posted 16/05/2015 at 22:19:08
Bit strong with the Ă‚’vitriolic lynch mobĂ‚’ line Harold.

ItĂ‚’s not Roberto FC, itĂ‚’s Everton FC. I love the team and support them, but I donĂ‚’t back the manager.

No one hates him or has a vendetta against him, but an increasing number of fans are turning against Martinez after the dross weĂ‚’ve been subjected to this season, the poor performances, the tactical errors, the fact that weĂ‚’re going to finish below Stoke and Swansea.

We donĂ‚’t all have to be happy clapping, robotic fanatics of Roberto like many on here want his critics to. He has failed this season on every level.

A win today doesnĂ‚’t gloss over that fact. So please donĂ‚’t say Ă‚’A lot of Evertonians will be gnashing their teeth because we wonĂ‚’ or Ă‚’We have to get behind the managerĂ‚’ like weĂ‚’re all brainless happy clappers.

No we donĂ‚’t. If he fails to deliver in terms of results, tactics, signings or performances, we as fans have every right to criticise him and call for his sacking, which should have occurred months ago.

Kevin Rowlands
149 Posted 16/05/2015 at 22:24:23
KT 133, can you tell us what was so meaningful about todayĂ‚’s game please? Oh thatĂ‚’s right it got us into the top half of the table, wow, should I give my head a wobble for expecting a little bit better from one of our best squads ever and also our record signing in the history of the club?
Brian Wilkinson
150 Posted 16/05/2015 at 22:46:36
Old whipping boy Osman scores, new whipping boy mcgeedy sets up winner, thankfully enough bookings to miss out on the dreaded Europa league.

Stevie me turned over on his finale, not a bad Saturday after all, see what next season brings without distraction of Europa league.

Jamie Barlow
151 Posted 16/05/2015 at 22:52:30
Andy@145, there might not be a lynch mob but there is definitely people hell bent on giving Martinez grief for everything he does. Look at the Garbutt and Distin threads and tell me there isnĂ‚’t. Martinez is getting loads of grief off certain people even though they havenĂ‚’t got a clue whether he deserves it or not.

There are people on here that would rather Martinez and Everton fail than do well because they donĂ‚’t like the bloke and want him gone and they turn nearly every thread into a Martinez out thread.

David Greenwood
152 Posted 16/05/2015 at 23:02:15
Very true Jamie@151.
Tony Dove
153 Posted 16/05/2015 at 23:03:01
Four bookings for us and one for them. There is hope after all for next season. For those who will miss the rape and pillaging of European cities have a seasons break.
Trevor Peers
154 Posted 16/05/2015 at 22:49:22
I agree, Andy (#145), Some of the pro Roberto lobby think they have the moral high ground when it comes to wanting Everton to win. ItĂ‚’s great to see us winning – thatĂ‚’s what itĂ‚’s all about and we deserved it.

But being an incurable optimist is not the answer to our problems on and off the field. If it was ,Roberto would win the EPL and the CL every season.

David Greenwood
155 Posted 16/05/2015 at 23:10:17
Trevor, IĂ‚’m not sure there is a pro Roberto lobby, but there is definitely a pro Everton lobby.
Darryl Ritchie
156 Posted 16/05/2015 at 22:40:57
This season, Everton have spectacularly underachieved. For ToffeeWebbers to be a bit negative is to be expected, donĂ‚’t you think? Some are a little more pissed off than others; and never miss an opportunity to let the rest of know.... over and over and over...!

A bit of clear thinking is needed, I think. Bashing everybody, from the chairman down, while probably therapeutic for the basher, becomes a bit tiresome after a while. The bad stuff was not all RMĂ‚’s fault, and the good stuff didnĂ‚’t happen in spite of him. MartinezĂ‚’s failings have all been discussed at length, but his biggest fault this season, I think, is that he has been "found out" tactically, and that either he couldnĂ‚’t or wouldnĂ‚’t adjust.

Hopefully itĂ‚’s not the latter, and next season is a bit more positive. For everyoneĂ‚’s peace of mind.

Trevor Peers
157 Posted 16/05/2015 at 23:15:24
Well David IĂ‚’m sure we all want the blues to be successful. People just express themselves in different ways, why should that be an issue?

Andy Meighan
158 Posted 16/05/2015 at 23:10:31
Spot on, Ajay (#46). Yes, because Lukaku and McGeady have had brilliant seasons, havenĂ‚’t they? A 㿈 million striker whoĂ‚’s got 8 goals from open play all season and couldnĂ‚’t trap a mouse with a ton of cheese... and the other is one of the worst wingers to grace Goodison Park in recent times.

As for the clown who manages, what a success heĂ‚’s been. HeĂ‚’s presided over one of the worst seasons of football in our recent history but still refuses to admit heĂ‚’s done anything wrong. But hey, Ajay, everything is rosy in the Everton garden because we beat West Ham and sneaked into the top half of the table...

Get real will you. Do you think anyone on here wants Everton to struggle so we can come on here and slag the manager and the players off? No – didnĂ‚’t think so. One swallow...

Gavin Johnson
159 Posted 16/05/2015 at 23:46:39
After just watching the highlights again on MotD I have to say It was a beautiful delivery from McGeady. I hope we use him sparingly next season. I think he could become a real asset for us, if he was used as an impact-sub rather than being thought of as a first-teamer by Martinez.
Patrick Murphy
160 Posted 16/05/2015 at 23:56:37
Gavin - The rumour mill suggests he could be on his way back to Celtic as part of a deal for one of their defenders.
Peter Laing
162 Posted 17/05/2015 at 00:00:35
Patrick, would that be CelticĂ‚’s, Dutch, left footed Centre Back ? Heard that rumour myself earlier this season from a Celtic fan
James Marshall
163 Posted 16/05/2015 at 23:58:57
I think youĂ‚’re all missing the point about the negativity. ItĂ‚’s not just negativity, itĂ‚’s depressing to read so weĂ‚’ve stopped reading it. It just puts me in a bad mood, even when weĂ‚’ve won games.

I support Everton, I donĂ‚’t pillory them when we win, lose or draw. You canĂ‚’t win every game, and I see no point in reading TW when I know all IĂ‚’ll see is hatred. Yes criticise the manager - I have. But do itĂ‚’s when itĂ‚’s warranted.

Patrick Murphy
164 Posted 17/05/2015 at 00:03:48
Peter (162) Virgil Van Dijk is the name of the player, donĂ‚’t know whether heĂ‚’s right or left footed.
Gavin Johnson
165 Posted 17/05/2015 at 00:04:56
Patrick, IĂ‚’ll be made up if that one happens. ItĂ‚’s a deal that will suit everyone.
Eddie Dunn
166 Posted 16/05/2015 at 23:55:33
Tempo is the thing that helps. When we up the tempo, we play more instinctively, and create more chances. The ponderous build-ups rarely work, as one slightly stray pass puts an end to the move. All of this was illustrated during todayĂ‚’s game.

Our failing is that it seems that it takes falling behind for us to rouse ourselves. This is what is frustrating a lot of us, because it has happened so often. We also seem to go into our shell after we go ahead, and invite the opponents to get the initiative back.

Martinez is showing that he has learnt from his mistakes and let us hope that he can continue to do so. There were great teams that could play at a slow tempo, and then suddenly switch to a high tempo, and bang, a goal, but it takes good players to be able to do it. A really good creative midfielder is what we need more than anything.

Geoff Evans
167 Posted 17/05/2015 at 00:13:27
Eddie

Measured and well put together thread. Agree with almost all you say.

Michael Kenrick
168 Posted 17/05/2015 at 00:26:28
Some interesting perspectives coming out on the rights or wrongs of posting comments.

ThereĂ‚’s a "vitriolic lynch mob"? Really, Harold? You of all people stoop to that level? Could it just be people with different opinions than your own, who donĂ‚’t see things quite the way you do?

Jamie says "There are people on here that would rather Martinez and Everton fail than do well because they donĂ‚’t like the bloke and want him gone and they turn nearly every thread into a Martinez out thread." (Emphasis added)

I think youĂ‚’re deliberately mischaracterizing whatĂ‚’s going on here, Jamie. Of course there are fans who dislike the manager and what he has done this season. And there are those who still want to give him the benefit of the doubt. As almost polar opposites, theyĂ‚’re not going to coexist very easily, and will use a variety of tricks to do down the othersĂ‚’ opinions. That means putting their own interpretation on the same information to support their entrenched positions. ItĂ‚’s called confirmation bias and weĂ‚’re all prone to it.

Even so, the number actually seeking Everton to fail is very, very small: perhaps one or two individuals. For most of us, that position is unacceptable... but if they see it as a path towards a greater good for the benefit of the club they love, are we really right to castigate them? Again, just because itĂ‚’s different from what we think, believe or accept?

I can well understand others, like James Marshall, wanting to come on here and only read certain types of posts; then feeling upset and depressed when he finds less of those that he wants to read and more that he doesnĂ‚’t want to read. But take a step back and look at it: itĂ‚’s the same thing going on. To call it Ă‚’hatredĂ‚’, again, because it doesnĂ‚’t fit with your personal view, is a bit much, donĂ‚’t you think?

People look at the same thing (in this case, todayĂ‚’s game) and react in completely different ways. I canĂ‚’t explain exactly why it is... but itĂ‚’s a product of our make-up as individuals and IĂ‚’m pretty sure itĂ‚’s not going to change anytime soon.

Mike Childs
169 Posted 17/05/2015 at 00:30:56
Thanks Michael great report of the action today. At least the lump was still trying to score in stoppage time. Other Strikers who have missed as many chances as he did today hide.

As Ken Buckley rightfully pointed out in his report, imagine Barkley with OssieĂ‚’s brain. I want to add heart but I think Barkley may have the heart – heĂ‚’s just very confused.

Christopher Wallace
170 Posted 17/05/2015 at 02:31:50
I think thes issue for a lot of people is that browsing threads on ToffeeWeb induces pessimism, and a certain degree of depression.

I do like to hear the views of fellow Blues, and obviously like a good rant every now and again. I was definitely more optimistic about the Blues before I started coming on here.

Maybe sub-forums for post-game analysis, constructive criticism and ideas for the next game.... and another sub-forum for those who just want a good moan, and to bash, berate and vilify the players/managers? Just an idea – obviously people can dip in and out of each, depending on what mood theyĂ‚’re in.

Dan Parker
171 Posted 17/05/2015 at 02:48:34
ItĂ‚’s been a shite season but I enjoyed that. Great to see a youngster have a fabulous debut and brilliant to see Rom hammer home a winner.
Phil Sammon
172 Posted 17/05/2015 at 03:21:09
Christopher Wallace 170

I think this is what youĂ‚’re after...

http://thenicestplaceontheinter.net/

Paul Ward
173 Posted 17/05/2015 at 05:04:40
James Marshall 163. I think it is you that is missing the point. You just donĂ‚’t like other peopleĂ‚’s opinions that differ from your own. We all support Everton on this site but unlike you, most of us accept other postersĂ‚’ views without getting depressed. As you say, you donĂ‚’t pillory them win lose or draw. So what is your point?

Should all TW posters accept the present status of club like you do and say nothing?

Steve Brown
174 Posted 17/05/2015 at 06:39:27
His point Paul 173 is that every story thread on here becomes context for another bout of RM bashing. That was true on the Distin thread (leaving because he is past it and his attitude has been wrong) and Garbutt (leaving because he aspires to be the next Dan Gosling).

When the team wins it is despite RMĂ‚’s tactics and selection, if we lose it opens the gate to vitriol and personal abuse... some of which is borderline unhinged. As someone who did NOT support the appointment of RM, is that what we have become as a club and supporters? Because I always thought we were better than that, the sort of reactionary stupidity we assign to Villa or Newcastle fans.

I have always taken the view that you should not write something about someone you wouldnĂ‚’t look them in the eye and say. Well I sincerely doubt that many on here who abuse RM on here would do that if they met him. Plus I wonder how proud they would be if their family read some of the things they have been posting?

So lynch mob does seem an appropriate term for how the debate has unfolded here on TW this season. NO-ONE on here thinks that this season has been anything other than a major disaster and a huge disappointment. How we process that says a lot about our individual and collective character as Evertonians.

Stephen Brown
175 Posted 17/05/2015 at 07:19:16
I agree totally with Steve Brown (#174) – good name by the way!! IĂ‚’m all for constructive criticism but one of the reasons why we all love ToffeeWeb is that posters are generally level-headed sensible supporters who donĂ‚’t resort to personal insults!

LetĂ‚’s hope for lots of positive transfer activity and a positive new season!!

Phil Walling
176 Posted 17/05/2015 at 08:59:25
Lay off RM because weĂ‚’ve won at West Ham? Are all his other sins and omissions cancelled out by just one result? Get real.
Paul Andrews
177 Posted 17/05/2015 at 09:08:58
Lukaku is a one-in-two goalscorer in his relatively short career. At his age, Ronaldo and Messi had not scored as many top flight goals as Romelu.

He has just become the first Everton player since Yakubu to score 20 goals in a season. We should look on the positive side of that, not highlight how many he misses.

Trevor Peers
178 Posted 17/05/2015 at 08:43:00
Roberto does somehow invite controversy, all managers do to a greater or lesser degree. I think thatĂ‚’s why youĂ‚’re getting such a wide range of views both positive and negative.

His comments last week about Ross, and also about not needing a new striker, were unnecessary, and bordered on the absurd. Maybe he needs advice from an elder statesman at the club. As long as he makes these outrageous statements, he will attract negative posts.

Jamie Barlow
180 Posted 17/05/2015 at 10:59:22
Thanks for the emphasis, Michael, it looks so much worse in bold. I only added "and Everton" because they come as a pair. If you want Martinez to fail, Everton will fail as part of the deal.

I donĂ‚’t want anyone to stop posting. The difference of opinion is what makes this the site I visit maybe 50 times a day. I just wish certain people would stop turning a thread about "the colour of the new kit" (made up) into a Martinez out thread because he doesnĂ‚’t understand Everton or he lacks class because itĂ‚’s the wrong shade of blue.

Christopher Wallace
181 Posted 17/05/2015 at 11:37:23
Phil 172

Thanks for that. Can you confirm that thereĂ‚’s not a bunch of glum gobshites spouting the same old shite after every game, regardless of whatĂ‚’s actually gone on?

Thanks in advance.

Phil Walling
182 Posted 17/05/2015 at 12:15:50
IĂ‚’m only too glad that you are happy with things, Chris. They say managers are only as good as the last game. If thatĂ‚’s true, Martinez is the best in the world.

Lucky, arenĂ‚’t we?

Christopher Wallace
183 Posted 17/05/2015 at 12:21:17
Phil W

What are you going on about mate?

Darren Hind
185 Posted 17/05/2015 at 14:09:09
Christopher Wallace, you are simply not getting what the site is about.

Let me expose the huge gaping hole in AjayĂ‚’s whine to you.

Lets start with the people who are patting him on the back and saying they are sick of the negativity.

One of them a favourite poster of mine (Alright Col?) will consistently and persistently criticise players in an attempt to exonerate the manager from all criticism.

One of them was murdered on here because of his persistent "vitriol" against a young player, enough to make him quit the site for a while.

Another who persistently bleats about Ă‚’negativityĂ‚’ actually called Distin a Gobshite on a current thread, blaming him entirely for the rift with the manager.

You see the people who criticise Lukaku are not necessarily the same people who criticise Osman, or Martinez, the People who criticise the Manager are not necessarily the people who criticise McGeady, and the people who criticise the negative are definitely not as positive as they claim to be.

I donĂ‚’t mind the hypocrisy, itĂ‚’s the stupidity that annoys me.

If you are constantly on your guard against criticism of the manager or a particular player, you will only ever notice criticism of him and the site will appear negative... those who refuse to acknowledge their own negativity to attack others, you are indeed deluded.

MK nails it squarely on the head with his " confirmation bias" theory. Never heard the term before, but having googled it...

Christopher Wallace
186 Posted 17/05/2015 at 14:54:20
Fair enough Darren, I donĂ‚’t spend enough time on here to know the traits of individual posters. If I take a break for a month or so, I come back to see the same crap being posted.

IĂ‚’m not bothered about criticism of any player or member of staff, and IĂ‚’m certainly not offended by swear words, but there should be a constructive element to it. Identifying an issue and offering an opinion on a feasible solution, replacement, alternative, etc.

Or maybe the problem is my own and the solution is to stay the fuck away from TW comments sections! Sounds like the best way to go!

Gavin Johnson
187 Posted 17/05/2015 at 15:38:22
I think thereĂ‚’s a lot of this confirmation bias going on in post #185. ItĂ‚’s true that Colin seldom criticises the manager, but to say he singles out players to exonerate the manager is ridiculous and what IĂ‚’d expect from someone who uses the sort of trickery Michael refers to in his post #168.
Michael Kenrick
188 Posted 17/05/2015 at 15:08:07
Some accurate perspectives from you, Darren. If you werenĂ‚’t so dead set against the manager, your regular posts might be easier to read!

I like to think IĂ‚’m more pragmatic in terms of manager and players: we have the ones we have. I see no point in endlessly campaigning for them to stay or go, or for us to bring in specific replacements. The world doesnĂ‚’t work like that – I definitely blame Football Manager for the prevalence of that tendency.

For me, itĂ‚’s match by match, with the players that are selected, based on what they do. Pure and simple. My matchday summaries are intended to be a record of the action, not from the view of a neutral observer, but (at one time, a lot more) passionate Evertonian. So yes, itĂ‚’s criticism they get if they cock up. Why not call it as we see it? I would hope we all do exactly that.

This request from Christopher Wallace that we limit it to "constructive criticism" seems to miss the point of an online forum, in contrast to the real world out there. We are not personal coaches to the players; we are not the managerĂ‚’s mentor... weĂ‚’re fans with a strong emotional bond to the club. If we had personal face-to-face responsible relationships with them as individuals, then yes, that would be the framework for constructive criticism. Online comment? I donĂ‚’t think so.

Some of us are more judgemental than others, we focus on different things... IĂ‚’m back on the old topic of different opinions – not just about the players and the manager, but how we express them. There are boundaries, obviously... but on TW we try to make those boundaries as wide as we can to accommodate a broad swath of what might in technical terms be described as Ă‚’reasonable criticismĂ‚’.

I can see that this approach will inevitably cause friction and angst for each of us as individuals with a view of things that is inevitably narrower; the natural reaction is to want the breadth of discussion to be limited to our own personal boundaries. Unfortunately, if youĂ‚’re sharing views with others who may not be exactly Ă‚’like-mindedĂ‚’, thatĂ‚’s simply not going to happen.

For me, I suspect that harping on about Ă‚’pessimismĂ‚’ and Ă‚’negativityĂ‚’ on here is actually a generalizing mechanism for rejecting segments of what is (for the voicers at least) valid and genuine concern in one form or another. IĂ‚’m concerned that it might be a way to devalue rather than address the underlying concerns of the fans expressing this Ă‚’unacceptableĂ‚’ criticism.

ItĂ‚’s been a dreadful season in many respects, but some of course think itĂ‚’s not as bad, or prefer to look forward rather than backward. Again, it comes down to different individual responses. Some we agree with; some we donĂ‚’t. TĂ‚’was ever thus. LetĂ‚’s not get too precious about it. ItĂ‚’s an online forum!!!

Gavin Johnson
189 Posted 17/05/2015 at 16:07:46
Christopher - donĂ‚’t worry about it. IĂ‚’ve come to the conclusion that a large proportion of the demographic that read TWĂ‚’s other main interests are Werthers Originals, Saga holidays and the Readers Digest.

You have to try and accommodate their negativity mate. Their heads will explode with anger like that guy in the film Scanners if they donĂ‚’t have their daily rant about their favourite subject. IĂ‚’ve been guilty of the occasional rant myself in the case of Howard and Distin but I do try to leave this to threads that concern them.

So I think that youĂ‚’re like me in that you donĂ‚’t want to read someoneĂ‚’s (daily) opinion about the manager (or any other personal agenda) when its posted to an innocuous thread like the new Everton strip for next season.

Steve Pugh
190 Posted 17/05/2015 at 16:27:43
Constructive criticism is only worthwhile if the person it is aimed at actually receives said criticism.
Darren Hind
191 Posted 17/05/2015 at 16:19:27
Colin G normally pops in at some stage... I wonder if he will deny regularly criticising the players when defending the manager? ... not keeping a straight face he wonĂ‚’t.

IĂ‚’m turning over a new leaf, MK. Martinez isnĂ‚’t going anywhere. So I will be backing him throughout the summer as he tries to rebuild with the pittance he will be afforded by this board.

If he gets off to a flier, I will be a very happy chappie; if heĂ‚’s still stinking the place out, I suspect it wonĂ‚’t be long before IĂ‚’m screaming the house down again.

Joe Foster
192 Posted 17/05/2015 at 17:02:48
Boo-hoo – I donĂ‚’t like what someone posted... Look, for me, if you donĂ‚’t want better for the club – fine. Me, I think we need change. We are stagnating at best and going backward at worst. So dry your eyes and letĂ‚’s try and get some success for the younger Blue fans.
Christopher Wallace
194 Posted 17/05/2015 at 18:56:43
Made me laugh that, Gavin. Hope Thats not me in 40 years!
Gavin Johnson
195 Posted 17/05/2015 at 18:10:59
I donĂ‚’t think the issue is whether someone is pro-Martinez or not.

Nobody on TW would say they were satisfied with how the seasons panned out. Everyone has their own ideas about the manager and I believe everyone except maybe one or two exceptions want Everton to do do well, even if it undermined their anti-Martinez rhetoric by us having a good pre-season and getting off the blocks quickly next season.

I think the issue for some is more about repetition and the context in which certain issues are used - Is a thread about an away win, the best way to bring up a rant about the manager..when a couple of people use nearly every other thread as a platform throughout the week to do it??

I donĂ‚’t believe anyone on TW is offended by people who want Martinez Out, I for one, am not. Although it does irk when you try to say anything to the contrary and you are then shouted down as a Martinez apologist.

When it might just be you want to be more measured and pragmatic and look at it as - Martinez has had one amazing season and one of underachievement. So itĂ‚’s reasonable to think he should be given the start of the third to find out conclusively whether he is a maverick genius or fraud who just got lucky last season. I would hate to think what could have been if he was sacked and then went on to be a success at his next club.

Even if someone takes the aforementioned viewpoint I donĂ‚’t think theyĂ‚’re happy with the state of things and the way the gloss has come off MartinezĂ‚’s positivity and the way he sounds like a lunatic sometimes with the irritating choice phrases - Actually IĂ‚’m surprised no one at the clubs PR departments pulled him to one side and asked him to try and use a different adjective from Ă‚’phenomenalĂ‚’ and not to mention moments, in every single interview.

Anyway, as I say I donĂ‚’t think the issues about being offended about rants, its just the repetition and context that can leave some feeling a bit depressed and weary sometimes.

Gavin Johnson
196 Posted 17/05/2015 at 18:10:59
I donĂ‚’t think the issue is whether someone is pro-Martinez or not.

Nobody on TW would say they were satisfied with how the seasons panned out. Everyone has their own ideas about the manager and I believe everyone except maybe one or two exceptions want Everton to do do well, even if it undermined their anti-Martinez rhetoric by us having a good pre-season and getting off the blocks quickly next season.

I think the issue for some is more about repetition and the context in which certain issues are used - Is a thread about an away win, the best way to bring up a rant about the manager..when a couple of people use nearly every other thread as a platform throughout the week to do it??

I donĂ‚’t believe anyone on TW is offended by people who want Martinez Out, I for one, am not. Although it does irk when you try to say anything to the contrary and you are then shouted down as a Martinez apologist.

When it might just be you want to be more measured and pragmatic and look at it as - Martinez has had one amazing season and one of underachievement. So itĂ‚’s reasonable to think he should be given the start of the third to find out conclusively whether he is a maverick genius or fraud who just got lucky last season. I would hate to think what could have been if he was sacked and then went on to be a success at his next club.

Even if someone takes the aforementioned viewpoint I donĂ‚’t think theyĂ‚’re happy with the state of things and the way the gloss has come off MartinezĂ‚’s positivity and the way he sounds like a lunatic sometimes with the irritating choice phrases - Actually IĂ‚’m surprised no one at the clubs PR departments pulled him to one side and asked him to try and use a different adjective from Ă‚’phenomenalĂ‚’ and not to mention moments, in every single interview.

Anyway, as I say I donĂ‚’t think the issues about being offended about rants, its just the repetition and context that can leave some feeling a bit depressed and weary sometimes.

Michael Kenrick
Editorial Team
197 Posted 17/05/2015 at 19:11:30
Sorry, Andy (and others) but weĂ‚’d prefer not to have this turned into yet another "Martinez pros and cons" thread. IĂ‚’m moving these posts onto the Talking Points section ast "Martinez: Stay or Go?" Not the greatest title as everyone seems to accept now he is in fact staying... In fact, not the greatest thread for the same reason.
Jon Cox
198 Posted 17/05/2015 at 20:07:52
Gavin, 189,

Is that the same pensioners snorting coke in British bingo halls?

Naughty old people eh! ;-)

James Marshall
199 Posted 17/05/2015 at 20:17:20
This thread pretty much highlights half my problem with TW these days - itĂ‚’s crammed full of oneupmanship, baiting, constant digs at people, both subtly and overtly, and a complete lack of respect for supporters of the same team.

People are complaining about others who feel TW is too pessimistic/depressing for them, and someone above even cites me as being someone who doesnĂ‚’t respect other peopleĂ‚’s pessimistic opinions, yet I stated that I simply donĂ‚’t bother looking at TW – I fail to see how that equates to not being accepting of othersĂ‚’ viewpoints. If I was contesting the pessimistic view then fine, but IĂ‚’m not, I just donĂ‚’t read it anymore.

Case in point – Michael in the OP calls Lukaku Ă‚’uselessĂ‚’, yet heĂ‚’s just scored 20 goals for us this season. You see what I mean? That just reads like pointless pessimism, levelled at a young player with a great scoring record. Lukaku has a terrible touch, and can appear lazy, but heĂ‚’s a striker – strikers score goals and IĂ‚’ll take his 20 goals this season!

Peter Mills
200 Posted 17/05/2015 at 21:03:43
Every time we log onto this site we are faced with a disclaimer asking us to treat other posters with dignity and respect. LetĂ‚’s do that.
Michael Kenrick
201 Posted 17/05/2015 at 21:20:56
James, in all fairness, IĂ‚’d called him that prior to his excellent goal, a goal that secured a wonderful added-time victory in the battle for 10th, a rare goal scored in open play by our rather spendy main striker.

Prior to that, when I actually made that sadly accurate assessment, heĂ‚’d missed numerous chances in this game and showed off some of his horrific ball-control Ă‚’skillsĂ‚’ that produced exactly nothing in terms of end product. This on the back of a dreadful but all too customary display against Sunderland. I think you know the rest.

And this must be some subtle irony: "I simply donĂ‚’t bother looking at TW – I fail to see how that equates to not being accepting of othersĂ‚’ viewpoints." Err... could it be that the reason you donĂ‚’t bother looking at TW is because you are not accepting of othersĂ‚’ viewpoints? DidnĂ‚’t you say as much already?

Kevin Rowlands
202 Posted 17/05/2015 at 21:22:21
James, maybe you should try and not take these threads so seriously, all it is is fans/posters leaving an opinion thatĂ‚’s all, you donĂ‚’t like that opinion why worry about it?

I actually find it somewhat arrogant that people actually come on here and strongly suggest what we should actually write/post, thatĂ‚’s just ridiculous. Everyone is entitled to their opinion as long as itĂ‚’s not personal attacks and I honestly donĂ‚’t see any of that on this thread.

Dean Adams
203 Posted 17/05/2015 at 21:28:16
So, a typical Premier League striker, Michael!! Would love to have Aguero but just out of our price range right now!!!
Michael Kenrick
204 Posted 17/05/2015 at 21:35:34
Perhaps, Dean. Paul Andrews tells us heĂ‚’s a one-in-two striker, so heĂ‚’s definitely capable of far better than something like 1 in 10 over the last half of the season.

I think I judge him against what heĂ‚’s capable of – not what other strikers in the Premier League are doing. (Although watch that Gomis strike for Swansea on MotD2 tonight... class!)

Dean Adams
205 Posted 17/05/2015 at 21:41:38
He took is superbly Michael, something I believe Rom should watch repeatedly and try to copy.
Chris Leyland
206 Posted 17/05/2015 at 21:45:48
Michael - just on a point of fact, your Ă‚’1 in 10Ă‚’ claim doesnĂ‚’t seem to be backed up by the facts as Lukaku has scored 5 goals in his last 10 appearances. That would be the Ă‚’1 in 2 strikerĂ‚’ Dean refers to. Or you could look at his last 20 games in which he has scored 12 goals, better than 1 in 2. Or how about his last 30 games? 15 goals. Yep, 1 in 2.
Ernie Baywood
207 Posted 17/05/2015 at 21:51:33
I was actually thinking of Lukaku while watching Gomis... he was terrible for an hour, worse than Rom. Kept on giving the ball away to sighs from the crowd and frustration of his midfield.
James Marshall
208 Posted 17/05/2015 at 23:45:32
People can say whatever they like, I donĂ‚’t have to read it and thatĂ‚’s the point I was trying to make - someone said I donĂ‚’t accept opinions, but I do. IĂ‚’ve stated on here on numerous occasions that the reason football is so interesting and so popular is that itĂ‚’s a game of opinions. IĂ‚’m merely saying that I donĂ‚’t log on to TW as much as I did (especially on matchdays) due to the pessimism regardless of results. Kevin, IĂ‚’m just responding to the conversation about it - I really donĂ‚’t take it as seriously as it might appear. Many people take Everton (and TW) extremely seriously, and thatĂ‚’s part of the reason why it gets so heated, as you well know.

Michael, on the Lukaku issue - perception is everything, and if you prefer to judge a striker on his all-round game then youĂ‚’re absolutely right, he can often be shocking and I agree entirely. If you prefer to judge a striker on the goals he scores, then LukakuĂ‚’s record holds up with some of the best strikers in the game at his age. Personally I like to go with the latter - although I do shake my head at times during games with his erratic play. Strikers need to be selfish and arrogant to succeed, and although Lukaku is nowhere near the best at linking up play, he certainly knows where the goal is, and for me, thatĂ‚’s what counts.

Jim Lloyd
209 Posted 18/05/2015 at 10:20:42
Lukaku would score even more if we played to his strengths. Yep, he can be clumsey, seems to have lead boots on at times and misses a fair few chances. But his goal record is pretty good, heĂ‚’s got time on his side to improve his all round game and if we get a player in whoĂ‚’s capable of giving the through ballls for him to run on to, then I think heĂ‚’ll be getting 20 league goals a season...at least.

It will be interesting to see who Roberto brings in to strengthen the team but "a schemer" to use the old parlance, is a top priority.

Good win by the lads at the week end and IĂ‚’m glad to see the young fullback have such a composed first game for us.

David Heaton
210 Posted 18/05/2015 at 15:23:48
I was very upset to see the anti-Kenwright banner on TV. Bill was in the stand with his partner, I personally donĂ‚’t think itĂ‚’s how Everton supporters should behave, made me feel a bit embarrassed when the camera went on it and then focused on Bill and Jenny.

I know heĂ‚’s not everyone's cup of tea but the bloke is Everton through and through; as he keeps reminding us all, if the right offer from the right type of person comes along, he will sell his stake. Do we really want to be owned by a rich investor that knows nothing about our history? We could end up like the RS – just another club desperately chasing success.

Anthony Lewis
211 Posted 18/05/2015 at 16:42:12
Was it just me? Or does no-one else wonder why none of the team celebrated OsmanĂ‚’s goal?

Ossie was clearly delighted and the rest of the team just walked off... Looked really weird to me!?

Paul Andrews
212 Posted 18/05/2015 at 16:44:01
Chris @ 206.

My point precisely. ItĂ‚’s not something you can make up to suit an argument.

Patrick Murphy
213 Posted 18/05/2015 at 16:48:30
Ă‚’Desperately seeking success" is the key phrase David, exactly what are Bill and his mates chasing? I donĂ‚’t think a man who has been involved in football for over 30 years and who has dealt with the public via his theatre productions will lose any sleep over a banner. It wasnĂ‚’t a personal insult, it was just a wish to see new more ambtious owners take the helm at Goodison, pretty tame really donĂ‚’t you think?
Andrew Ellams
214 Posted 18/05/2015 at 16:50:54
David @ 210. I have to know, is that a genuine post or sarcasm?

The guy has been a millstone around the neck of this club for 20 years. He is in it as long as he can feed off the Premier League gravy train. The club is his train set and heĂ‚’s not letting anybody else have a turn.

Patrick Murphy
215 Posted 18/05/2015 at 16:54:11
Anthony - I only looked at LukakuĂ‚’s reaction to OsmanĂ‚’s goal, but having watched it again youĂ‚’re right only Galloway gave any response to Ossy. It also reminds me of something Distin said in response to being told that Ossie was the perfect professional and the Frenchmen said something along the lines "Is he?"
Alan Bodell
216 Posted 20/05/2015 at 15:29:07
David (#210), couldnĂ‚’t agree more mate, surely we are better than this. We always want better for us naturally but as you say Kenwright has had the Ă‚’For SaleĂ‚’ up for a long long time and there is no buyers, the grass ain't always greener etc.
Patrick Murphy
217 Posted 20/05/2015 at 15:48:54
From the accounts for 2011-12, Chairman Bill Kenwright said:-
I am often asked: 'How does Everton do it'Ă‚Âť
How do we consistently perform so well in these days
of cheque book fuelled football? More often than
not, that question is asked by rival fans after another
stunning performance against a club with vastly
greater wealth than ourselves.....

.....On a final note, my desire to find a person, or
Institution, with the finance to move us forward has
not diminished. Despite the challenges presented
by a global economic downturn, we remain positive
and determined. We will find major investment.
My commitment to serve this football club to the
very best of my ability remains a constant in my life
and I am aware of the trust you put in me to do that.
My motivation is simple. I am an Evertonian. That's
enough for me.

I donĂ‚’t see how his desire to find a person, or institution with the finances to move us forward can be translated into I will sell the club. The next decade will be very much like the last decade as long as we donĂ‚’t get relegated and that BillĂ‚’s health holds up. If anybody listened to The Blue Room last night on the radio they will realise that Joe Beardwood doesnĂ‚’t think that the club are doing such a bad job and that we could be spending too much of our income on wages - stand by for reductions in the wage bill in future seasonĂ‚’s?. There was also a National Jouranlist whose name escapes me - Jonathon somebody, who hadnĂ‚’t realised that it was 20 years since we won a trophy and more or less said that Everton FC were an irrelevance in this global football world - Barcelona as a news story in England are more important than most PL teams and they probably get more coverage than Everton in the national media.

Mike Childs
218 Posted 21/05/2015 at 00:34:54
David Heaton wow!

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