Time for Koeman to follow De Boer out of the door?

David Booth 17/09/2017 86comments  |  Jump to last

So much I'm bursting to write here, but I cannot funnel it through from brain to keyboard fast enough.

Spurs was the game Koeman should have used to demonstrate that his new look team was fit for purpose and upwardly mobile. Instead, after a year and a half under his stewardship, we look worse now that we did under Martinez in the previous two seasons – despite Koeman acquiring a new first-team player for every month he has been here.

Out of his 50 games in charge so far, I can only remember one impressive performance: when we thrashed Man City at home last year. The rest have been pedestrian, unimpressive wins over sides we expect them over and timid defeats against those we seemingly do not.


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Virtually every one of our victories has been achieved without ever truly imposing ourselves. Everton under Koeman is pure, unabated monotony. At no time during his tenure have I witnessed one sign of an emerging pattern of play, of the team responding to his leadership, of us shedding our pathetic 'we are not worthy' mantra, or any indication that things are about to change. Indeed, the only change I can see is that they are getting progressively worse.

I expected great things under his pragmatic managership and that we would at the very least believe in ourselves and shed the self-imposed inferiority complex we have laboured under for 20 years. Instead, we have an apologist of a manager, who instead of going toe-to-toe with the Sky six, seems resigned to building a wall in front of our area and hoping they haven't got the wit or will to get through it.

With consummate ease they do, time after time after time. What a surprise. Then all he does afterwards is praise opponents for being so good, like against Spurs, when he shrugged his shoulders in awe of their midfield fluidity.

We know we haven't got a good defence right now and the less said about our forward line the better. But there can't be a team in the whole division who have the midfield options we have. Jesus Christ, we've got a squad full of them!

What about trying a revolutionary change of tactics, you Dutch dunce ,and try giving the opposition something to worry about for a change – instead of always seeking to just stop them and nothing else?

And speaking of novel concepts, why don't you put players in their true positions. Dominic Calvert-Lewin at wing back… I have never, ever seen such a patently ludicrous selection.

As Calvert-Lewin and Tom Davies have already proven – it’s time give our very promising youth players a chance and ditch the deadwood such as Williams and that clown you have sneaked in from Southampton reserves. Kenny at right back and Holgate alongside Keane have got to be given a go, plus a decent wing mate for Baines.

On the plus side, Koeman has shown a much-needed streak of ruthlesness in getting rid of some of the perennial under-achievers who have been lingering unnecessarily for far too long, such as Cleverley, Gibson, McGeady and Oviedo (shame for him). Yet we are still left with many more who should also have been out of the exit door this season: Lennon, McCarthy, Williams, Robles (what the hell is he still doing here?) and Niasse (what the fucking hell is he doing here?).

Worse, he seems to fall out with any player showing the sort of flair and unpredictability we so desperately crave (Barkley, Deulofeu, Mirallas). We didn’t realise how blessed we were with those three and Lukaku did we. Didn’t take Koeman long to drain all that spark and individuality out of them, did it?

Rumours of him alienating key players at Southampton are rife and there is evidence here that they could well be true. It is clear to see from his public appearances that he is not a man who has much concern for his image. Under the admirable guise of being forthright and honest, he doesn't appear to be a particularly likeable man and it is not hard to imagine him ignoring or ostracising someone without a second thought.

His transfer dealings have been as random and disconnected as his playing strategy, ie, all over the place. I was vehemently against Rooney returning and this brainless chanting of 'Roonaaaaayh, Roonaaaaayh' – like when he almost hit the corner flag from the halfway line at Man City, just highlights what a comical parody he has become.

Would any other side we are aspiring to overtake have taken him? Absolutely not. His two goals so far have just masked his inadequacy and his first-name-on-the-teamsheet inclusion is retarding the team. None of our alleged rivals would even sniff at the likes of Williams or Martina either, yet here we are with all three seemingly first team regulars. No wonder we have been brushed aside with embarrassing contempt by Chelsea and Spurs in our last two games.

And get ready because it's Old Trafford next. Ten fingers might not be enough to count the score there as there isn't one area of the pitch where we can hope to compete with them.

Koeman has been in the job for 15 months, three transfer windows and spent approximately £200m to shape the side he says he wants. Yet I cannot see one green shoot or anything of the pressing, high-tempo game he says he is demanding. All that money, all that promise, all that ever-enduring expectation – and the only constant is heart-breaking disappointment and frustration. He has made no mark whatever (apart from being one himself).

We currently have a team that is actually worse than anything under Martinez and Moyes without ever coming close to their better days, and on a par with the worst that Walter Smith could muster. Last season, all an opposition manager had to try and do was stop Lukaku. Now we don't even merit a team talk. We have nothing to threaten anyone with. Everton have no USP. Stoke do. Watford do. Burnley do. West Brom do. Even Bournemouth do. And they force their opponents to make plans to deal with them accordingly.

What then is our key strength? Do we have an impenetrable defence? No. Are we dangerous on the break? No. Do we control possession? No. Are we fluid and hard to play against? No. Do we look like a team without a plan, full of square pegs in round holes, lacking in leadership, obduracy and willpower and a game plan? Yes, yes, yes and yes.

If we are ever going to realise that we have to attack and score goals to actually win matches, it's time we ceased with this two defensive midfielders every game – regardless of who we are playing and whether we are home or away.

Everton are the mirror of the England international team. Looking good on paper, but you groan every time you see the team sheet, because it again always includes six defenders and an inevitable smattering of out-of-form favourites and players shoehorned out of position all over the pitch. And from the minute they kick-off you find yourself thinking: "Here we go again"… that's us right now, in a nutshell.

The latest transfer window was Koeman's big chance to make the leap into hyperspace. Goals had to be more evenly distributed throughout the team, he said. Who could argue with that obvious philosophy? However, although Klaassen, Rooney, Sandro and Sigurdsson may well manage 25 between them (looking very unlikely already), the net result will be just the same without a replacement for Lukaku to also chip in double figures and improve the overall situation.

So, in simple terms, we now have four players charged with replacing one just to stand still and even then we can't play them all effectively, because three of them are all competing for the same position. Talk about a cock-up on the recruitment front. What were he and Walsh thinking? How did they envisage this new-look squad working? For all the early promise with the arrivals of Pickford and Keane, it has been an absolute shambles.

The early results have made me genuinely concerned about our prospects this season. Seventh, never mind sixth or above, is pure fantasy right now. Seventh from bottom seems a much more realistic prospect. How can this be possible after spending something approaching a quarter-of-a-billion pounds? I have seen absolutely nothing to commend Koeman so far at all. This is no Kendall-esque evolution and it cannot be allowed to continue. Time for Ronald to shape up, or be shipped out.

Just in case I haven’t summed up my feelings on the situation adequately, here’s what The Guardian had to say in their Premier League round-up this morning:

Ten of Ronald Koeman’s signings started and this time they mustered one spurious attempt on goal to follow up the zero they managed at Chelsea in the previous defeat.

The manager’s backers claim the team need time to gel but the fact is fans are struggling to see what if any system the Dutchman is trying to employ, on the pitch and in the transfer market.

On Saturday his one-paced side were set up with two defensive midfielders and all three of the No 10s he signed in the summer shoehorned behind a 22-year-old Spaniard, Sandro Ramírez, with two league games behind him and who was replaced at half-time by another youth prospect, Dominic Calvert-Lewin.

It was clear as long ago as February that Romelu Lukaku would be leaving and the manager’s failure to sign an adequate replacement is a case bordering on gross negligence.

Back from Italy, having witnessed the utter collapse against Atalanta and the subsequent 4-0 walkover at Old Trafford. That’s 0-2, 0-3, 0-3 and now 0-4 in our last four games. Absolutely no excuse for the team selection, the transfer failings, the inability to adapt, the lack of motivation, the consistently negative attitude, the sign of any positive influence on the team and his dour, disinterred demeanour from Day One.

I hope he leaves/is sacked as soon as possible. We have a dreadfully inadequate, out-of-his-depth incumbent in the manager’s chair right now and could have hired Pulis for less than half of what he is paid, spent half the cash and had twice the effectiveness – purely as an example… I’m not advocating that he’s the man for the job!

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Reader Comments (86)

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Simon Dalzell
1 Posted 18/09/2017 at 01:27:00
Brilliant article. I've felt a bit disillusioned reading some of the "give him time" comments on some other threads. The comment of one outstanding performance in 50 is spot on.

Some ToffeeWebbers seem to think Koeman has just arrived. I was horrified after last season that this joker would get to spend the potential increase in funds. I could go into detail but, simply, he hasn't got a clue!

Dennis Ng
2 Posted 18/09/2017 at 02:02:56
I'm still on the fence on Koeman. I'm okay to see him go but not opposed to see him stay if he can deliver wins in the next few games. My only concern is that, if he is not the man to lead us forward, I want us to be decisive and ship him out quickly.

Klopp was available while the wheels of the Martinez wagon were falling off till he signed up at Mordor in December. Now Tuchel is available. Sure, he doesn't have Champions League success but he has experience at both Mainz (punching above their weight) and BVB (up there with the big boys), a mix of pragmatism and high performance which I would consider far superior to that of Ronald Koeman.

Derek Thomas
3 Posted 18/09/2017 at 03:45:13
David Booth; ffs get a grip willya, give your head a wobble...Nah, just messing about mate (like the team), just taking the piss (like Koeman).

To misquote the Spurs thing about selling Elvis - Well we sold ours, we didn't even attempt to 'buy the Beatles', no we had to buy Freddie & The Dreamers, no wait, it was The Barron Knights...a 'comedy' group who did impressions - a bit like our lot who do a very poor impression of a team...At least Faith Brown played with 2 up front...and so on and so forth in a similar vein - Rory Bremner, blah, blah. Pithy Mike Yarwood quip, etc, etc.

Those 70's had a lot to answer for...not unlike Moshiri and his p(r)ick for Manager...on the back of yesterday (all our troubles seemed so far away, now I need a place to hide away) I've upgraded him from The Dutch Moyes / KoeMoyes to The Dutch Mike Walker.

Short Version; Taxi...or these days Uber

Peter Barry
4 Posted 18/09/2017 at 03:49:01
Koeman is toast. It's only a matter of time and hopefully for Everton before he has completely ruined this season for us.
William Cartwright
5 Posted 18/09/2017 at 03:55:14
I was on the fence, sort of wobbling between patience and panic. Then I read this article. Wow! Count me in. Koeman really must go.

We are all focused on how much he has misspent and logically so. However, when you put it into context of the other plus factors he (and his expensive management team) took over, such as the wonderful youth set up, the existing stars he inherited, misdirected and disposed of, the attacking verve of players he is ignoring (Barkley, Mirallas, Lookman, Niasse etc.) the wonderful support with season ticket sell-outs, the positivity generated by the developments of the stadium, the "support" to be provided by Walsh's expertise, etc, etc.

Given the full picture, what he has under-achieved is absolutely criminal. How he is almost single-handedly destroying the club is just incredible.

The difficulty is Moshiri publicly invested so much in Koeman and his project I don't think he can change direction just yet... if at all?

Alexander Murphy
6 Posted 18/09/2017 at 06:49:12
An accurate summary there, David, of the issues eating away at the vestiges of my hopes and dreams for our new future led by Koeman. Worries, supported by well selected examples.

Even now, I have misgivings about ditching Koeman. Tough run of fixtures, new blood needs time, Howard Kendall took us through some pretty dismal times before it all came gloriously together.

But. Taking seven months to replace your leading scorer and drawing a complete blank ?

Koeman's remarks frighten the living daylights out of me. Plain speaking has value given the right place, time, and consistent theme. Ronald Koeman exhibits none of those factors, net result? A squad that very much appears to have adopted a "fucked if I do and fucked if I don't" view of life under Koeman.

"Taking far too long" is a consistent theme. Too long with the ball. Too long to sign vital players. Too long to develop a playing style. Just don't take too long over the inevitable decision only to find we got beaten to our ideal target because someone else was more decisive.

Easier fixtures could provide our new manager with an upbeat start and minimise any dalliance with the "trap door club".

Get it done, get him gone, get us a leader of men and get us three trophies!


Will Mabon
7 Posted 18/09/2017 at 07:16:34
"Short Version; Taxi...or these days Uber"

Hang fire, Derek. Although you now probably don't go a day without hearing the word "Uber" pushed at you from somewhere in the media (Hmm... how does that happen, I wonder), they haven't yet stolen away near enough of the taxi business of the western world, to be as consolidated as they'd have people believe.

Andy Meighan
8 Posted 18/09/2017 at 08:19:57
Great article, David. And it certainly isn't no Kendallesque type evolution. At least the late great Howard had the balls to walk when he couldn't acquire a striker.
Rick Tarleton
9 Posted 18/09/2017 at 08:23:17
How can anyone be on the fence about Koeman? His post match interview was an honest confession that he doesn't know what to do? He is lost, confused and clueless. In those circumstances, an honourable man would resign.

I repeat on the four essentials of a football manager he has failed. He recruited ten of the starting squad, he is responsible for training and coaching, he decides the tactics that are adopted, and he motivates them for the game. On all four counts he is failing; if he stays, we will be in the relegation fight.

Andrew Clare
10 Posted 18/09/2017 at 08:44:30
I am sure we are in good hands on the business side of things with Moshiri with investment and the new stadium all under way but I have my doubts about his knowledge of the football side of things.

If he takes any advice from Kenwright then we are never going to get in the trophy winning mix. I can see us hanging on to Koeman too long and going nowhere – just like we did with Moyes.

We have played three of the top six and have been totally outplayed – okay, yesterday, we showed a bit more fight but, once Davies, Gueye and Rooney were subbed, we crumbled and we're ultimately thrashed. We will probably get a couple of wins in the next few weeks and then get totally outplayed by the next top six team we meet.

I have always believed that managers should be given time but the way Koeman sets up the team and alienates players worries me. I'm afraid with Kenwright we will probably still have Koeman at the end of the season.

Christopher Dover
11 Posted 18/09/2017 at 08:49:09
The most disheartening thing on being an Everton supporter is, each time I watch them, I cannot see where a goal is coming from or how they intend to stop any team with pace.

I wanted Koeman to succeed – he spoke straight after the other clown but I have to agree that he is now becoming the laughing stock as the team? Falter from bad to worse, he may well pull the odd win from the coming home games but we did that last season so where is the improvement?

Pickford and Keane look more shaky but who can blame them in a back setup that is slow and constantly changed; if there is no real way to play other than pass across the back then hoof the ball up front to a non-existing striker to hold the ball up.

I was full of hope with the start of the season, the slow start due to limited pre-match prep but the European games were the warm-up the team would need to get up to speed in the premier league has also shown not to be correct.

Wait till we play the lesser teams we will then come good – problem is, the league shows there are only two teams worse than us so far, so do we look forward to beating them? I think they may fancy playing us now.

Am I downhearted? Yes. Do I see light at the end of the tunnel? Not at this time; just the same regurgitated team in slightly different positions. I, like many, can only hope.

Clive Lewis
12 Posted 18/09/2017 at 08:53:03
"Rumours of him alienating key players at Southampton are rife."

Well he did the same at Valencia according to an article I read. Took the team from the top to near the bottom. Was sacked. Players running around like headless chickens, no idea!

Time to get rid of this disassociated manager.

He has not lost the dressing room; I believe he never really had the dressing room. The team looks lost and Koeman does too. The distance between the manager and players is so evident to see.

Jonathan Tasker
13 Posted 18/09/2017 at 09:09:06
Great article.

Guy next to me at work is a Saints' fan. He was jubilant when Koeman left. He cited that, amongst other things, he just didn't like Koeman. Perhaps more pertinently, Koeman had alienated several players and had left a trail of destruction behind him.

Sound familiar?

Derek Thomas
14 Posted 18/09/2017 at 09:36:45
Johnathan @13; and at Valencia.

Will @7; Anybody from Jim Hardin and Wells Fargo to Steptoe and Son can pick him up for all I care... just soon.

Do they still have those ads in the paper – Rubbish removed?

Paul Kennedy
15 Posted 18/09/2017 at 10:16:09
"Sorry, is there anybody, in this room or on the outside, who sees this as realistic or possible for Everton? Please, come on. Be realistic and let's talk at the end of the season."

After these wonderful motivating words from our Manager, how can anyone doubt he is not the man for Everton? He needs to go sooner than later.

Danny Halsall
16 Posted 18/09/2017 at 10:17:21
I think that calls for Koeman to be sacked are a little premature to say the least; however, there is no doubting that this has been a very poor start.

I think of things like this. We have played 10 games so far this season, we have won 4, lost 4 and drawn 2. In those games, we have played Spurs at home and Man City, Man Utd and Chelsea away.

We have 4 points so far, which is only one less than last year at this stage and we are still only 4 points and although we are in the bottom 3 we are only 4 points off 6th, which is realistically what we need to be aiming for this season.

Obviously the worry isn't the matches we have lost, but more so the manner in which we have lost them, which I agree has been worrying at times. But again, when you think about it, is our slow start such a surprise to everyone?

I think of things like this. We have lost probably one of the best young centre-forwards in the world and Barkley is no longer playing a part. We are without Funes Mori, Yannick Bolasie, and Seamus Coleman who are all important first team players with lots of Premier League experience.

Of the team we had yesterday, including subs, 7 of them were new to the club. Add to that the fact that Koeman seems to be struggling to find a way of playing without a proper centre forward, then we were always going to struggle against the top teams who have all had a pre-season of relative stability.

To sum up, I think that there have been 3 major mistakes made by Everton this summer, and they are all to do with recruitment.

First, I do think the players we have bought are good players, but they are not great, however, this is the level you shop at when you are not in the Champions League.

1. Our first mistake is of course not buying a centre forward and that can only be down to a lack of planning. It is glaringly obvious that Lukaku was leaving as soon as he turned down his new contract and I would be willing to bet that he knew at that point that Man Utd would be a his destination. This gives us the best part of 8 months to scout and look for a replacement. The fact that only Sandro has been signed to play up front is a crime and we are now paying dearly in games for our lack of options at striker.

2. The signings we have made, although strengthening the squad, have largely been made in the same area. Last season, we had a great centre forward, but nobody who could effectively play as a Number 10, now we have no centre forward and 3 players who could potentially play Number 10. 3 players in that position is too many, especially when all 3 of them (Sigurdsson, Klaassen, Rooney) can't really play anywhere else. The fact that we haven't signed a left full-back, left-centre back and the aforementioned forward is absolutely criminal and someone in charge should be made to answer for that.

3. Finally, we have no pace, at all. This I think is the most damning mistake. Yesterday we had Rooney up front, with Sigurdsson, Davies, Schneiderlin and Gueye in midfield – nobody with any pace. Then we sat back and invited pressure from kick off, seemingly looking to play on the counter. We could have played for a week and we'd have never scored. As a result of a lack of pace, we have no outlet, nobody who can get us down the pitch quickly in the same way that Bolasie or Coleman might have done. Pace is so important in the modern game and we have somehow not valued it when contemplating our signings.

This is why, in my opinion, players like Mirallas, Lookman and even Henen from the U23s must get some game time before January, we need a bit of balance between those who can create and get on the ball and those who will be that outlet, run the channels and pull defenders out of position.

I have no fears for this season; I think we will be perfectly fine in terms of position. Comfortably top half, with a possible push for Europe. However, this is not the new dawn we were promised and changes must be made in playing personnel, even if we have spent £140 million. For the time being, I trust Koeman to pull us out of the rut we are in.

Declan Martin
17 Posted 18/09/2017 at 10:43:43
It is truly worrying. Even apart from the 12-0 in the last four games, the previous games against mostly poorer opposition were just as bad in terms of performance.

There is no evident system in place – no fluidity, no passing movements, no game plan, no consistency. It's like – "Let's put out 11 players and see how they get on..."

Has he lost the dressing room?

Mike Allen
19 Posted 18/09/2017 at 10:44:08
But that's the point – we are a Moyes/Pulis type of club. The sooner we stop living the past, the better. Our days as a glamour club are over (maybe for now, I hope). The problem with a great history is we are still living in the past.

None of this top four, top six nonsense – just be competitive in every game with what we think is our strongest team and see where that takes us. Trim the squad down and stop this daft squad rotation just to give someone a game instead of getting in the side on merit.

Keith Monaghan
20 Posted 18/09/2017 at 10:54:09
Agree almost totally Danny @ 16.

Ronald Koeman has made mistakes - but the club is bigger than him and he doesn't control everything.

How are our transfers done and who negotiates them? Perhaps some of those involved in previous backwards moves like signing Ginola, Dazza & Dunc (2nd time) & appointing Martinez based on a 3-0 Wigan win at Goodison are still involved & too influential?

The club chose to sell Rom, unlike Liverpool who chose not to sell Coutinho & Arsenal who kept Sanchez. It should obviously have signed a replacement before selling Rom instead of going all soft on Man Utd's demand for an early deal & Kenwright being too luvvy-duvvy in taking Wayne Rooney back who dumped us 13 years earlier.

The club & many of us fans need to toughen up – we've been too soft for ages and will never seriously compete until we do; trophies don't get won by going back – we need to compete in the now & future.

Nitesh Kanchan
22 Posted 18/09/2017 at 12:11:56
Any other manager in his right senses would have replaced Lukaku, Kone and Valencia with two like-for-like strikers for 30 odd goals, Vardy and Llorente. But Koeman bought Klaassen and Sigurdsson.

With £150M, we could have had Sandro, Vlasic, Banega, Vardy, Pickford, Keane, Gibbs and Llorente. With these players and Barkley, Coleman, Funes Mori and Bolasie returning during Christmas, we could have easily finished in top 3.

I don't see us spending anywhere near £50 million in the near future. Koeman has completely destroyed our club and what's worse, is he is freezing out Barkley, Mirallas, Niasse, and Lennon when we do have many attacking options.

Gary Edwards
24 Posted 18/09/2017 at 12:22:41
David, nice article. I am glad that you found the time to share your thoughts and opinion. I couldn't agree more Koeman has to go, now!

I too read the "gross negligence" reference, I wonder what TW's keenest legal minds would make of that.

Barry Sherlock
26 Posted 18/09/2017 at 13:20:14
Excellent piece, well written and from the heart.

I could only challenge the Mirallas thing! He's not one of our top talents. And never has been. But the rest is pretty much spot on!

I too have been scratching my head, trying to figure out what system RK is looking to play. And in the transfer market too, it appears that we want to buy players with zero pace. This is a real worry. Everyone saw what Leicester did a couple of years ago - pace. Christ we saw the RS nearly do it with Rat Face. Counter attacking pace.

Away from home, when you want to keep it tight and break on teams, pace is the key. Every player doesn't have to be able to run at 40mph but some pace is a prerequisite in this league.

This is why RK is losing the fans. It's like watching that advert with all the old duffers and the bloke with the iPad. filming it: Walking Football. This is what we've become.

Charles Barrow
27 Posted 18/09/2017 at 14:37:19
Excellent article - completely agree. Koeman is an arrogant character who thinks he's some sort of managerial genius. He simply pins the blame on our disastrous performances on other people. I also understand that Southampton were glad to get rid of him. They didn't fight much to keep him!
Charles Brewer
28 Posted 18/09/2017 at 15:03:00
I have just looked up Koeman's reign at Valencia on Google; there is an excellent Guardian article which relates much of what is above.

The horrifying thing is that all you need to do is substitute names (Everton for Valencia .), stuff like this:

"He lost Joaquín when he dropped him from the squad for arriving two minutes late to a team-talk, even though he had included Ever Banega, who'd been picked up by the police for drink-driving, prompting the winger to snipe: "Maybe next time I'll get pissed and run a red light instead." And he lost Iván Helguera and more when he publicly berated the players for not being good enough, prompting Helguera to bemoan a "lack of respect". "I don't know if I have the squad behind me," shrugged Koeman, "but I reckon four or five of them are on my side.""

Talk about deja vu all over again!

There is clearly no way back for Koeman, and keeping him any longer is simply making the situation worse. If the club doesn't want to sack him, the simplest thing to do is send him on 'gardening leave' with strict instructions that he is not to talk to any other Everton employee (it doesn't matter what he says to the press, rightly, no-one believes anything printed these days, from the Telegraph to the Guardian, it's all Pravda c1937 these days - the above was from 2008).

Steve Barr
29 Posted 18/09/2017 at 15:04:58
Sums it up for me Dave.

As usual Everton has given its manager plenty of time. In this case he's had time to at least show a positive improvement in style and play, if not in winning anything.

As stated in the OP, only one really decent performance since he came here. Clearly not good enough and the club must move decisively, get rid and sadly start the process over again.

Having said that I don't have any faith in the powers that be to appoint the right person for the job. Maybe they'll finally get lucky!

Once again us long suffering blues have been let down by all at the club. Everton has to be the most amateur set up in the Premier League. The place needs a major shake up throughout, from the footballing side in particular right through the back office, marketing, publicity, kit, sponsorship departments etc. etc.

Winston Williamson
30 Posted 18/09/2017 at 16:04:52
Come now, you're all being very hard and negative on this illustrious manager, sorry, coach, sorry, head coach!

It's not his fault he sanctioned the sale of our key player to a rival - oh shit, sorry, not a rival, as Man Utd can realistically win things when we cannot realistically expect to win anything (does this include individual games???).

It's not his fault Barkley wants a new challenge - I too wanted a new challenge in my workplace after my boss decided to unjustly ridicule me too, albeit not to hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of people.

It's not his fault he did not demand the signing of a seasoned, prolific striker! He had his handicap to work on after all we all need a work-life balance!

It's not his fault that Kenny is an inexperienced, yet enthusiastic, young pup of a right back, who has already won more trophies than most of the first team combined! He surely cannot be expected to give him a go! He might give goals away and cause us to look very dodgy at the back...hell, he might even get a nose bleed getting into the oppositions half - cannot have that! Health and safety issues galore!

Is it his fault Delboy and then Mirallas got in a huff because other, less effective players, got picked ahead of them? Silly boys! Who do they think they are...???

See, give the guy a chance! There is still much more damage he is yet to manage, I mean coach!

Tony Everan
31 Posted 18/09/2017 at 16:42:14
Nobody is enjoying this spell, it is unwatchable. I used to look forward to it, this season it has been torture.

I think it was Alex Ferguson who said you get the full picture after 10 league games. So I am holding fire and giving Koeman a bit of time.

The problem is, without an attacking threat, we are going to struggle. I can't see us scoring enough to make games safe.

The pressure is on now, big time.

Pete Clarke
32 Posted 18/09/2017 at 17:09:41
Koeman is picking the team because he has to. Not because he knows what he's doing or what the opposition will do but because it's his job to do it.

Unfortunately he's gonna keep on doing it until one of the weaker teams also gives us a hiding because the alarm bells were ignored by the owners.

Get ready for the worst part of this roller coaster boys and girls.

John Pierce
33 Posted 18/09/2017 at 17:28:15
David, one of the best pieces I've ever read on TW.

A colourful conglomeration of views which have been on this site, at the ground and in the pubs for some time, if you care to listen carefully enough.

The weird thing about 'his supporters' is that I don't even think they support him, its just a over thought notion we should be more patient and sensible. Almost a default position.

The most damning is not the obvious detracting traits and fearures of his tenure. For most that's like shooting fish in a barrel. It is that nothing positive can be constructed to support a cogent argument for him staying.

And I've tried, tried to see past the growing pains and the pragmatism and really see the plan, even under previous clown he had a clear vision. Sure he had plenty of deficiencies but he was defended quite vehemently by many because of it.

There is no underlying philosophy or style to cling to.

Go Ronald, just a really bad fit for Everton.

Sam Hoare
34 Posted 18/09/2017 at 17:44:26
I'm not happy with how we are playing. I'm certainly not happy with the transfer window and the debacle of getting Rooney, Klaassen and Sigurdsson but no striker.

But that's what we have now. This is Koeman's team. It's a new team and I refuse to look at Palace as anything other than impatient idiots. Firing a manager after 4 games is ridiculous.

So far in the Premier League we have 2 points less than we did against the same teams last year. We are 5 games in to a season in which we are trying to bed in around 8 new players. Anyone who thought all these players would immediately click together and play scintillating football is living in dreamland.

Obviously the football has been dreadful. Not nearly good enough. But a new team will take some time. Like many i'm extremely sceptical of what exactly Koeman's plan is and I don't really like how he comes across or conducts himself generally in regards to our club that is clearly a job and nothing more to him. But he bought these players. He must have a plan of sorts. And a new team will always require a bit of patience and time.

He can have 6 weeks from me to show us what that plan is. To keep us in the cups, get us up the league and renew some faith. if we are still 18th and playing terribly by then I'll happily jump on the bandwagon. Not that it will make the slightest bit of difference as I'm fairly sure that Moshiri wouldn't sack him till Xmas however bad things got

Don Alexander
35 Posted 18/09/2017 at 18:12:22
Well said, Sam (#34), not jumping on the "Sack-him-he's-crap" band-wagon does not amount to support for Koeman.

Wins are needed immediately. The squad have had a pre-season and over half a dozen games in nigh on two months to work each other out. For blokes with bugger-all to do except perfect the craft of passing, controlling, shooting, tackling and closing down that's long enough, but I give them some licence because of our hideous fixture list for our results to date. Just how we win without a recognised centre-forward is a mystery to me though, as it seems to be to Koeman and all the players.

That's why I doubt Moshiri'll sack him this season unless we remain more or less where we are now. He can't afford to spunk £200mill (as reported) and repeat it for a new manager. He won't even want to pay what's left of a £6mill p.a. salary if he wields the axe now or at Christmas.

I can't imagine what's going on behind the scenes but I really hope the gross incompetence of leaving us all without any vestige of a goal-scoring threat is identified, personalised, and punished.

It just ain't good enough Farhad, and I'm truly sorry to have to tell you that.

Dominic Brady
36 Posted 18/09/2017 at 18:12:41
We are in the bottom three because we deserve to be. Four points, three from an underwhelming and not fully deserved win against Stoke and one simply because Man City got a man sent off early in the game.

This squad has relegation written all over it. Would any of us think we would walk all over Crystal Palace or secretly do we believe that Palace would be more likely to score and less likely to concede than us?

This is as bad an Everton team (and squad) as I have seen and in 50 years I have seen some bad ones. There used to be fairly laughable plan of putting Mick Lyons up front for the last 10 minutes because the rest of the team were so unlikely to score. We can't even do that with this team.

This team is going down and urgent emergency work is required. In the next few months one team will take on Sam Allydyce and the team that does will stay up. I couldn't care less how controversial this sounds but, without him, as Private Frasier would say, we're doomed!

Geoff Lambert
37 Posted 18/09/2017 at 19:09:57
It looks like our next three Premier League fixtures are all 6 pointers.
John Pierce
38 Posted 18/09/2017 at 19:27:57
Sam you are driving me nuts! 🙄

Point to me were the majority of posters on here want the team to gel immediately, or want scintillating football.

We want clear plan, a tangible marker of improvement from day 1, not the last 4 games. No-one is that naive or expects a magic revolution over night.

Even with a changing cast of players there is no definitive pattern of play, no style, no positive trends or signs players improve under Koeman.

Show me an incremental improvement in the team? Show me a player he has kept that has improved under him? Is it coaching when you exchange a set of players for a other?

It's either hope or gut feel or you natural disposition that has you not reaching for the ejector seat!

Your own post has you begging him to show you an improvement in the next 6 weeks/matches.

Tell me to date what has he done to impress you? You say plenty of decent things on the site, construct an arguement that is not built on hope or gut feel he will turn it around.

If its there, Ill listen and wind my neck in!

But evidence like 2 wins 20 away games, the last 10 games of last season, the 1/10 streak last Autumn are big alarm bells.

The solidity and goals a positive of last year have disappeared.

Its truly wretched, and my addiction to the clubs forces me to watch every week. Help!!!!!

Jay Griffiths
39 Posted 18/09/2017 at 19:48:06
No doubt this smoke and mirrors charlatan will have bonus clauses in his contract. Champions League, FA Cup win, et al.

Contracts should protect the club also. Negligent and remiss in duty, failure to meet minimum expectations et al again. How this man can be awarded more time and rewarded for failure is a problem that's percolated through this club for years, decades even!

The Man City result last season was first rate but try to see through the shimmer. They had us on the rack for a lot of that game and we definitely had a four leaf clover up our arise. We took our chances they didn't.

Performance wise I really struggle to remember a satisfying and comfortable game in all his tenure. We need him out. I don't think Unsworth is the long term answer but for the interim I'd be happy to see him at the helm.

We're not only failing to meet our minimum expectations, we've become a subject of utter humiliation. I'm sure many of you are getting the same Whatsapp taunts as I am.

A statistical fact, we're equal bottom on goal difference with Crystal Palace. They've lost all five and scored NONE!
That my fellow blues is ridicule laden ammunition.

This Uri Geller manager must be cast out now.

David Booth
40 Posted 18/09/2017 at 20:15:35
Some interesting and very pertinent comments here from Southampton fansite, SaintsWeb, who have followed Koeman's progress since he left them:

"Everton lost one of the best strikers around. If you put a 25+ goal striker in any team, they're going to get far better results. If you sign a shedload of players, anything can happen.

"Everton spent their way into a major problem of having no idea what their best team is or how they should play. The only time I've seen signing that many players work is when he came to Saints. We signed players knowing exactly where they'd come in and play. Pelle, Tadic, Bertrand, VVD, Forster, Mane all straight in the team in their preferred positions.

"They don't know how to use Rooney, they've wasted Barkley, no idea if Klaassen is actually any good and people are getting in Sigurdsson's way. The best thing about Everton last year besides Lukaku was the Schneiderlin/Gueye/Davies midfield because of its energy. He's disrupted the entire balance of their team now, and why he's playing Martina I've not got a clue.

"They should have just signed Pickford, Keane and Siggurdsson, sold Barkley and spent big on a forward with some pace."


"Looking at his time at Everton I don't actually think he was as good as we thought. Last year he had Lukaku, with us he had Mane. I know the loss of those players would cause problems for any team, but at Everton he seems reliant on exceptional players and when he no longer has them he's caught wanting like any other average manager."

Guy Hastings
41 Posted 18/09/2017 at 20:41:58
I'm looking forward to some more real diamonds in the dirt, some unearthed talent, some never-heard-of-him genius that will set Goodison alight – unknowns such as Sigurdsson, Klaassen, Keane, Pickford.

Never heard of them until Steve Walsh earned his corn. Good on you, Steve. Keep that hidden talent coming through. Worth your £2m buy-out fee every time.

Peter Fearon
42 Posted 18/09/2017 at 20:56:08
Sorry, the idea of sacking Koeman at this stage is way way way over the top. I don't especially like him and he has made some head scratching decisions – Deulofeu and Barkley for example – but after five games there is no way to tell how the rest of the season will pan out.

If these results against top clubs were spread over a whole season, we would see them as hiccups. My issue with Koeman in the Man Utd game was his starting line-up. He started with seven defenders and in effect three midfielders. Where did he think the goals were coming from?

Paul Needham
43 Posted 18/09/2017 at 21:27:44
I cannot think of another club in the Premier League that would not be thinking of changing their manager if they had not only lost by the same score lines but played so ineptly in all those games.

I do not want to become palace and bring the axe down as frequently as they have, but we need to look at the other factors. He has bought players, good players, and played them out of position. Sigurdsson, good player but I have had more kicks than he has and I am 4,000 miles away.

I know we have played top teams, but we cannot except being shite. make them work to beat us.

Football must have changed greatly in the 50 years I have been watching as the old adage was get a defence that works and stick with it. Now, okay, they are not doing themselves justice, but swapping players in and out, changing formations every other game, changing your keeper just introduces instability and doubt.

With my old mentality all I want is to keep a consistent stable defence, play the midfielders in their right positions, one holding midfielder please and a striker or two.

Yes Lukaku has gone. We knew he was going and yes he should have been replaced, but him not being there is not the problem. The problem is we are not getting anywhere near the box. Let other teams worry about us with two strikers and not just sit back and play attack vs defence. Let's just crack on and form a partnership up front. at the moment we are swapping about too much hoping for a team that clicks. guess work.

Incoherent waffling. Frustration. Life as an Evertonian, I suppose.

Christine Foster
44 Posted 18/09/2017 at 21:46:28
David, I almost totally agree with you but with the exception of Rooney, frankly how we would look without him over the past month I dread as we would be at the bottom of the table with no points. He has worked his socks off and yes, he is past his best, but he is still a head and shoulders above the rest of the muppets.

Koeman, I said before the season started (pre-season games) that his man management skills are awful, his tactics are baffling and his lack of flair players, no attacking wingers and no striker would infuriate and spell a real problem. A month on and we are in trouble, not because of the table, because the team has no shape, no purpose and no plan.

Koeman is a dead man walking, just like Martinez was, just like Moyes... Koeman doesn't deserve to be mentioned in the same breath as those two, and they weren't very good! But at least those two had a plan... Koeman?

He has a choice... drop certain players and change the tactics of the team, pace and flair is required. Sigurdsson and Rooney need outlets for their skill, so does Barkley. (Given recent events puts a whole new slant on him doesn't it? do you think that Ross has been undermined now? See Valencia on different thread.)

Barkley, Mirallas, Rooney, Sigurdsson – the four have no chance of succeeding while we have nothing up front. If we cannot hit with pace on the counter attack then we have nothing... and our fullbacks have no cover without wide men in front of them. Basics... and we are getting slaughtered, we can all see whyHe has no choice but to change, or go. I would rather the latter.

Jem Bir
45 Posted 18/09/2017 at 21:52:48
Great article – especially the point that we have no replacement for Lukaku. It's balanced and pretty much bang-on.

But sacking Koeman is completely absurd, a totally thick, stupid, daft knee-jerk reaction to a poor start. After five games? Crazy.

I was at the Man Utd game and we played bloody well for ¾ of it. So we lost 4-0 (ouch!), but we have to give this proven manager time to develop his squad.

Danny Broderick
46 Posted 18/09/2017 at 22:14:45
The modern fan is so fickle. Half of ToffeeWeb seemingly wants Koeman out now after 5 games. Ferguson wouldn't have built a dynasty at Old Trafford if most of you were in charge!!

Koeman must improve in the next 6 weeks or so, but to be calling for his head after 5 games (4 of which were particularly difficult) is ridiculous. Support the team.

The club have fucked up the player recruitment this summer. It was obvious we needed 2 strikers, never mind one. Koeman knows this – he made it public that he wanted a striker and a left sided defender, and what did we get? Neither.

The article below is Koeman's response when asked if he would be targeting a striker in January – he said that it's Steve Walsh who takes care of buying players.


So to summarise, Koeman has been screwed over as much as us by our failure to bring in a striker this summer. He is not blameless in this – I can't understand why he was in Portugal on deadline day – but no manager would be able to get this unbalanced squad in the top 4 currently. Calling for his head is way too early. If we are still doing crap in 10 games time, it may be justified, but Everton is not the type of club that fires managers 5 games into the season. Hopefully we never will be.

Stephen Smyth
47 Posted 18/09/2017 at 22:21:07
David – your comments on Rooney are spot on, he is slowing the play down and he is bringing an inertia which is catching. Other supporters are laughing at him.

Yes, he gives effort but, ffs, that's the least I expected; to be out of puff at 60 mins is not acceptable.

Stephen Smyth
48 Posted 18/09/2017 at 22:28:21
I meant to add I would give Koeman until end of October to turn it around.
David Barks
49 Posted 18/09/2017 at 22:29:34
Danny (#46),

Another person who seems to forget that Koeman is not in his first season and seems to forget that we've played more than five matches. Just to refresh your memory since you didn't take the time to read the OP, Koeman was here all of last season and we suffered through some terrible football. There has never been any apparent philosophy to Koeman's tactics or team.

This season, we've suffered through some terrible Europa League games, seemingly only saved by the very poor level of competition and in the later round, a 50-yard fluke goal by Sigurdsson and the referee incorrectly flagging for offside when Pickford would have been red carded for giving away a penalty. We squeaked through, only to be slaughtered by Atalanta in the first group stage match.

All of that happened. Koeman hasn't been here for five matches. But even if he had, the five matches you want to reference we're atrocious. And now he's going public against another manager who says we should be challenging. Leave it to our great motivational manager to tell everyone that we are not as good as the competition is claiming we are. Next, we'll hear about how he needs another 3 transfer windows.

Clive Lewis
50 Posted 18/09/2017 at 22:52:41
It's not really been five games! We have been dire for ages.

On a sidenote, it seems like the car is breaking. It's starting to make grinding, clanking noises. It's misfiring because it's missing a spark plug.

The problem is, I am not sure it is fixable. I don't think we have the money to put things right. I have lost confidence that the car is not going to work again for long.

Back to the Everton problem, I don't think the miracle we want is going to materialise.

Jay Griffiths
51 Posted 18/09/2017 at 23:31:55
Danny (#46) we do support the team mate. That's my problem. Today I've spent over £120 ordering tickets and coach travel to Brighton. We've followed Koeman's football north, east, south and west. Naming 5 games into the season is irrelevant to me.

All of his performances have been dour this season and last season too. His handling of players seems appalling. Our dressing room must have so many factions in it due to those he seems to have marginalized. Appreciate your opinion Danny but believe me when I tell you that most travelling fans want this snake oil salesman gone.

As an aside, can anyone list some positive points or adaptations that Koeman has brought to our club?

Steve Carse
52 Posted 18/09/2017 at 00:06:18
Stephen (#47), where are these supporters you report are laughing at Rooney?

The only stick I see or hear Rooney get for his performances are from fellow Blues who appear not to have appreciated that this was not going to be the swash-buckling dynamo we sold 13 years ago. Taking the after-match chat at OT on Sunday as an example, there was nothing but praise for his latest performance from opposition supporters.

Peter Gorman
53 Posted 19/09/2017 at 01:16:43
To ask whether or not things can improve under Koeman is to miss the point, I think. The question is whether or not he can get us Champions League football or (heaven forbid) some silverware.

I think the answer is blatantly that he can not so what sense in keeping him on a moment longer. Get rid. It is what a big club would do; it is what we fans believe we are and what Moshiri also claims to think.

We had a debate on here as early as this stage last season about Koeman being a potential mistake and there would have been no shame getting rid of him as early as that. "Never throw good money after bad" is what my old man used to say. And always keep the receipts. Why double-down on a duff hand? We don't have any aces and Koeman is the joker in the pack.

David Pearl
54 Posted 19/09/2017 at 02:13:59
Stephen (#47). Yet Rooney is and has been our best player so far and is the only player to've scored a goal. Your opinion is wrong.

And Koeman... he will be with us for another month or two at least. I'm sure he will be evaluated on this run of fixtures. If the points start to come in he will then be supported further in the market in January. Hopefully we are by then within some kind of touching distance to the top half of the table.

Also, it would cost a fortune to get rid of him now.

Derek Thomas
55 Posted 19/09/2017 at 02:15:18
Peter Gorman @53; Glad somebody else remembers that. I was one of those saying end it early after 12 games... and I'm still saying it now.

I hope there are, just in case, precautionary measures taking place, because the Watford game just before the International Break seems enough to base an opinion on, one way or the other. How did the Thursday Cup games go? Are we still in the League Cup? How many points do we have?... and more importantly how are we playing overall?

Even go as far as to short list potential replacements and provisionally sound them out for a 6th November start.

Gavin Johnson
56 Posted 19/09/2017 at 02:27:49
The talk of Koeman being sacked is pretty reactionary and ridiculous at this moment in time. He's signed 9 players that have got to bed themselves into the team and we've had the hardest fixture list in the league.

It's the tactics that concern me more than anything and not adapting quick enough playing against teams with wingbacks exposing our slow backline.

I think it's criminal that we didn't sign a target man when it become apparent we wouldn't get Giroud. With the players we currently have we need a player up top who the ball will stick to. Calvert-Lewin doesn't seem up to it at this moment in time, and it's this fuck up that might cost Koeman his job, because it was apparent to everyone in pre-season that we looked decent at possession and build up play but with the new slower players we needed a strong target man.

The last four fixtures have been very hard, and apart from Atalanta we would have been lucky to get anything from the other 3 fixtures even had we been playing well.

I'm going to judge Koeman after the next 4 fixtures which on paper are all winnable, starting with Sunderland on Wednesday. I'm 50/50 at the moment on Koeman. I think the hard fixtures and bedding so many new players in is some mitigation but, if Koeman doesn't pull it round in the next 4 games, he has to go.

John Pierce
57 Posted 19/09/2017 at 02:30:19
David (#54).

Why is the compensation an issue to get rid of Koeman? We have money? Not a problem, we were happy to pay the grossly inflated market price to 'buy' him.

Is that your objection or the clubs? Either way its a sign of a small time mentality and more evidence the club have not changed its culture under Moshiri.

I'm afraid its time to realise as a Everton manager to learn to build the plane whilst its in the air. Both ludicrous and short term I know but that is the reality with the global exposure and sums of money involved. Patience hasn't got us a truck load of trophies, has it? 22 years and counting!

Our resources are that of a 7th-placed team, Koeman managed no more than par last year, and has no record in a top 5 league of bridging that gap with HIS coaching skills.

Cold and pragmatic, like Ronald; time to swing that axe.

David Pearl
58 Posted 19/09/2017 at 02:34:22
It took me one game to question Koeman. The first game of last season against Spurs.

As for this team. We don't have a top striker. What we do have is Calvert-Lewin, Rooney, Mirallas & Sandro. Between them... well let's face it, it's Koeman's job to find a system that works. A system that gets us actual shots on goal. Was it 7 shots from the first 5 games?

£6 million a year. That's nearly enough to buy the new iPhone.

John Pierce
59 Posted 19/09/2017 at 02:37:52

You can't say "Don't sack him" in such unequivocal terms then slate him for his tactics and then trot out the the excuses every manager wrangles with each season.

C'mon now. Give me a real constructive reason to keep him and not just some stay of execution because he has a set of winnable fixtures.

If you are already that much in doubt, then you have your answer: he should go. Letting him hang on, limping and wounded just takes away games a new guy could win.

David Pearl
60 Posted 19/09/2017 at 02:40:03
John, it cost us £10 million to get rid of Martinez. Getting rid of this set up would cost what? A guess would be at least double that. Money matters.

I've never been a Koeman fan... but I will always be an Evertonian. He will have more time but how long we don't know. There's only Unsy I'd want to replace him.

Dennis Ng
61 Posted 19/09/2017 at 02:54:29
Gavin (#56), I agree with your call for sanity. I would truly judge him by the performance of the next few games, though I would argue that they are must wins to salvage any bit of confidence and harmony left in the squad. To be fair, I would not have been upset by defeats to the past 4 teams we lost to but the manner gone about for those games calls for serious concern.

I want us to be ruthless and should we detect that things aren't going well, I want Koeman gone. I want to see progress and fight. Missing a #9 is not the cause of our problems in my mind, but rather a lack of tactical flexibility. If we're to challenge for the top, surely we should be prepared to match our opponents in tactical nuance regardless of the players available. Not to mention that I believe we actually have the depth if Koeman was daring enough to try our youths.

Tuchel, a manager I respect highly, is available and the last thing we need is to let another good name slip while we remain overly patient with a manager that might be holding us back. That is what I feel we must do, be patient with Koeman for the next few games, but with a very very short leash.

On the compensation, I'm sure Koeman has a golden parachute clause but I don't believe Moshiri would be dumb enough to lose the club over £15M max.

Ernie Baywood
62 Posted 19/09/2017 at 02:58:26
Just a matter of time. I hate that we're back in this place again of just knowing that we're wasting away games on a manager who won't be here much longer.

Results will improve but you can't ignore what happens against the 'big' sides. He can't turn it around from here.

Dave Lynch
63 Posted 19/09/2017 at 03:45:26
In the words of Phil Spector.

Time to do one Ron Ron to do one Ron.

William Cartwright
64 Posted 19/09/2017 at 03:55:03
Koeman's acknowledged shortcomings to date, as reflected by actual events and team performances are: lack of man-management skills; unclear and highly questionable playing strategy; distrust of or at least evidently being uncomfortable in dealing with the creative and entertaining type of player; and a seeming lack of team preparation nouse.

That, coupled with the fact he is a bit of a dour character makes me question his skill set. He is the wrong fit. Simple as that.

John Pierce
65 Posted 19/09/2017 at 04:32:47
David, I've no evidence other than similar types of break-up between clubs and managers as reported in the media. But clubs do set compensation levels according to length of contract left or a set amount if the contract is lengthy.

For example, Pardew got one year's salary at Newcastle after signing a monster contract.

If Everton haven't learnt their lesson from Martinez, giving a huge extension and not setting levels of appropriate compensation based on time remaining and league position then they need to wise up.

I'm desperate for us to play well because its so tough even when you win but only did so in moments. So few memories to wax lyrical about under this dour man.

John Pierce
66 Posted 19/09/2017 at 04:36:14
Dennis, the key point in your post is patience for patience's sake.

Too right – if we dither when others are available and open to taking over, then, as the season takes shape and teams take decisive action, those candidates could easily disappear.

Daniel Lim
67 Posted 19/09/2017 at 05:21:00
David @40

Interesting that a Southampton fan wants to spend time following Koeman and analysing his work at Everton.

I can only think of one possibility, he's so bloody angry with him that he wants to see him fail and he wants to be able to say "I told you so".

Daniel Lim
68 Posted 19/09/2017 at 05:30:01
Peter @53, good point.

If the yardstick is whether he is able to improve from here, then he has a chance. If the benchmark is a trophy and Champions League, I'm not holding my breath.

Daniel Lim
69 Posted 19/09/2017 at 05:50:09
So we have our world class striker gone.

Is Koeman blind that he didn't know the world class striker was not in his line up anymore? He thought the world class striker was still playing for us, therefore he didn't put in another striker into his line up?

What I'm trying to say is, Moyes got us 4th place with Marcus Bent. He made use of the resources (however little) that he had and came up with a game plan. Why didn't Koeman do the same, ie, draw up a plan to utilise whatever he had at his disposal?

No Lukaku, and no replacement for him. Then draw up a plan that get other players to score. Is he still sulking that no Lukaku replacement being brought in? It's almost 3 weeks since Transfer Deadline Day.

Paul Kennedy
70 Posted 19/09/2017 at 14:56:59
Copied from The Echo:

Before the Atalanta game last week, Koeman was 33/1. The best odds on him to go are now just 3/1, with some bookmakers offering odds as low as 5/2.

After Everton's 4-0 defeat at Manchester United on Sunday, Koeman has commanded 76% of bets across the market.

To emphasise the gulf in betting, Roy Hodgson is the next most backed with 11% of bets.

Koeman is now a close second to Slaven Bilic, who is favourite to next lose his job with best odds of 2/1.

Come on, Blues, let's win this one!!

Gareth Prytherch
71 Posted 19/09/2017 at 16:02:53
David Booth, I can agree with most of your post in terms of the plan (or lack of it), the recruitment (or the bit that's lacking), and I can even add a point which is that I can't trust anyone who passes the buck so readily. I'd happily see him gone if there is a decent alternative. (Unsworth for the rest of the season, anyone?)


"Worse, he seems to fall out with any player showing the sort of flair and unpredictability we so desperately crave (Barkley, Deulofeu, Mirallas). We didn't realise how blessed we were with those three and Lukaku, did we? Didn't take Koeman long to drain all that spark and individuality out of them, did it?"

I'm sorry but Deulofeu was a petulant child who didn't 'work' for a number of managers. Mirallas has consistently under achieved for three separate managers and been as open as Lukaku about his desire to leave the club and play for a Champions League team – except that he's not that good.

Finally, Ross! I like Ross and I would love for him to be our captain, talisman, driving force but I just don't see it; I would love to see it, but I just don't. It took him almost a year under the new management team to get fit enough to last a full game, by which point he'd decided that he's too good for us. By the way, for me, Ross played his best football under Koeman.

There are many faults with Mr Koeman but that doesn't absolve everybody else from personal responsibility. I believe that we are not far away from Big Ron doing what I think he's done before and walking away when he realises that it ain't gonna happen.

Pat Waine
72 Posted 19/09/2017 at 16:27:33
We sacked Roberto Martinez after two 11th-place finishes, he also got to two semi-finals and a good Europa League run plus a 5th place finish – all in 3 years with no money to spend.

If Koeman thinks that 7th is all we can hope for, what did we spend £200m for? Our wage bill must be multiples of the wage bill under Martinez. We should should start to cap it by sacking Koeman for lack of ambition and direction.

Matthew Williams
73 Posted 19/09/2017 at 16:36:00
The next Gaffer should be shown the highlights of the game against Coventry in 1978 on YouTube, then just calmly ask him... "Can you repeat that now?"
Gavin Johnson
74 Posted 19/09/2017 at 17:37:17
Denis (#61) – a really good post mate. I think you sum it up pretty well when you say it's the manner of defeat that is the most concern.

John (#59) – I totally share your frustrations and I go a long with Denis about the manner of defeats being the biggest worry. That said, I wouldn't call it a stay of execution on the basis that the fixtures were shocking and these winnable fixtures are chance to galvanise the team and get the formation right.

I think Koeman did well last season and we have bought in some good players. I'm not sure I'm understanding the logic of buying Klaassen, Sigurdsson and Rooney. Even in the summer I posted on TW several times that I was concerned on where the pace would come from in this team. I thought Koeman would have the answer to this but there hasn't been any signs of that so far this season.

Tbh, I think we might only be couple of players from the thing coming together. But they're absolutely pivotal due to our new midfielders being top class technically but not having much pace. We desperately need a top class old fashioned number 9 to hold up the ball and a left back with pace because it's sad to say but Leighton Baines no longer has the legs to move forward anymore. I think we already have the answer in Jonjoe Kenny at right-back until Coleman is fully fit.

I can see why some people are calling for Koeman to get the sack, but on the number of players that need to settle, and the shocking fixtures he should have at least the next four games. They're his players so he needs an adequate amount of time to work with them. I seem to remember him having a dodgy spell in his 2nd season at Saints and it all came good and I think they finished 5th or 6th.

James Marshall
75 Posted 19/09/2017 at 18:17:53
David Moyes: He's single-handedly destroying our great club – we need a new manager!

Roberto Martinez: He's single handedly destroying our great club – we need a new manager!

Ronald Koeman: He's single handedly destroying our great club – we need a new manager!

Anyone notice a pattern?

Steve Barr
76 Posted 19/09/2017 at 18:29:34

Judged on the 3 examples you cite, the pattern is set by our owners.

That is, the bar is set far too low when looking for a manager. We get unproven, average managers who have not succeeded at the top level, hardly succeeded at lower levels to be frank, and we get a continuation of that, ie, we win nothing and just hover in the never regions of the Premier League.

James Marshall
77 Posted 19/09/2017 at 18:34:24
Steve – that may be right, I just don't see Everton as a big enough draw for top players or managers anymore. We're an also-ran and getting out of that is the holy grail – a Catch-22.

Who would come to us? Koeman is a big name manager, regardless of his track record (which isn't brilliant as we all know).

Top class managers want to go to the big teams, the movie star teams (if you see what I mean) and we're not one of them (at the moment).

Perhaps what we need is to see incremental improvement with Moshiri on board; part of that of course is not playing in a shitty old (much as I love her) stadium that's falling apart.

A huge swathe of football fans across the world have never seen us win anything – since the Premier League became a world product, we've been pretty much a mid table side, never seriously challenging for anything – players today (thinking about their age now) only know Everton as a mid-table side – we as supporters have a very different view, but to players we're just like Stoke or West Brom in many ways.

We simply don't have the pulling power that Evertonians feel we have (in my view).

Peter Gorman
78 Posted 19/09/2017 at 20:07:18
James, I don't think there were that many (if any) fans saying Moyes was 'single-handedly destroying our great club' but I understand the point you were trying to make allows a bit of poetic license with facts.

As Steve said, the pattern is the owners. I think we've signed two very duff managers in succession, not much more pattern than that, unless you have another point?

Stephen Davies
79 Posted 19/09/2017 at 20:51:56
I would like to see an Everton team that attack and entertain, just watched the England ladies v Russia 6-0 well done.

My question is, could Mark Sampson manage a men's team and get similar results?

Peter Gorman
80 Posted 20/09/2017 at 10:44:49
I doubt it Stephen.
Craig Walker
82 Posted 20/09/2017 at 14:26:37
This is a good article and there are some good points being raised.

I was a fan of Koeman when we brought him in. For what it's worth, I tend to want to give our managers more time than a lot of fans. However, I went off Koeman after the home derby game just before Christmas.

He seemed to have watched a different game to me. We were awful and yet again, we gave the RS too much respect. We then seemed to get worse with every away performance. The debacles against Chelsea, Watford and at Anfield were as bad as anything under Martinez.

I read a stat the other day on Twitter (cia Sky I think) which said that out of Martinez's last 25 away games, he won 9 of them. Koeman has won 5 (I think) over the same number of games.

What concerns me is that we play alehouse football and that isn't what was promised when he was hired. He made it clear that he likes teams to press but to get the ball forward quickly. That's all well and good but just lumping the ball aimlessly forward and then chasing like mad to win it back is not what this club is about. We seem to play a lot of passes back to Pickford for him to lump it forward.

I've said it before but a better footballing side would have won against Man City's 10 men and we'd have had 6 points on the board after two games. A good side would have used the extra man and retained possession. Anyone watching that second half who hadn't seen what happened in the first half would have thought that we had the 10 men.

It seems to me that we have combined the worst features of Moyes's teams in that we give the ball away too cheaply with the worst of Martinez's in that we look to play it backwards too often and are shaky at the back.

Why do we give these teams so much respect? Why can a team like Crystal Palace go to Anfield and win 3 times on the run? Why can Bournemouth and Hull City beat the RS but we can't?

There's an inferiority complex permeating through the club and we need a manager to start demanding a winning mentality. I don't think Koeman is that man.

Paul Kossoff
83 Posted 21/09/2017 at 15:04:16
De bore, has to follow De Boer out de door with no encore, as he iz poor, as we plummet to de floor, we iz sick to de core, an we iz sore. Cos Popeye says we can't stands no more! 😁
Henry Lloyd
84 Posted 22/09/2017 at 03:28:15
Quite simply the best Article I have ever read on this site. I hope Evertonians read it at least twice to realise as I did that there isn't a single word of that piece that is not spot on and I admire the fact that somebody can put something so fucking obvious and factual in a very articulate manner.
Charles Barrow
85 Posted 23/09/2017 at 15:00:17
YES YES and thrice YES.
Lee Brownlie
86 Posted 23/09/2017 at 17:28:54
I actually absolutely agree on the fact that we are pretty much akin to being 'a mirror' of the England team, just now, and that's really not good. At all!!

I actually hadn't posted this 'take' anywhere as I really was concerned that I was perhaps so 'off' in my view, as no-one else had seemed to say anything similar, that perhaps my view was maybe so purely born of a growing frustration that it was therefore too subjective to be considered in any worthwhile, and objective, way.

Maybe not then. Crap innit, aren't we??? Okay, Koeman.. time to take a long walk off Skeggy pier, that is the stubble of it left in my hometown!!!

Frank Crewe
87 Posted 23/09/2017 at 17:36:42
Niasse (what the fucking hell is he doing here?)."

Saving our arse!,"Niasse (what the fucking hell is he doing here?)."

Saving our arse!,,,1,17:35:53,,,ok,13017,09/23/2017 17:35:53,wyvern999,reader,, 853356,35539,toffeeweb,23/09/2017,Damian Wilde,wilded@uni.coventry.ac.uk,"Koeman's a prick. Absolutely shocking. Why not start Davies & Kenny? Where's Lockman? Rooney is finished. Baines is finished. Klaassen is shit. We never play with width, does Koeman hate width? Why is Sigurdsson so quiet (poor system?)?

Then he brings Davies on and plays him right mid! Kid is a headless chicken there, but great in the middle. When he is moved to the middle and Kenny comes on, boom! Stealing a living is the dour Dutch bastard.

Now whether you rate Niasse or not, he is a 'centre forward' – our only one. Don't we look better with a 'centre forward'! And tbf, the kid is decent, he's scored three in a week and after being treated disgracefully from that idiot.

Good win, but we have problems with Koeman in charge. I think it's clear to see he plays his signings regardless of form. Wise up!

David Booth
88 Posted 24/09/2017 at 14:05:29
True these last two games, Frank – he has taken us all delightedly by surprise hasn't he!

The perfect irony: a player who Koeman very volubly and publicly dismissed on first sight saves him from coming under the shadow of the axe.

For now...

Aarron Stobie
89 Posted 26/09/2017 at 07:36:06
Good win but not so good
Soren Moyer
90 Posted 26/09/2017 at 18:45:30
Time for Koeman to follow De Boer out of the door?"

YES!!,"Time for Koeman to follow De Boer out of the door?"
YES!!,,BlueKfrog,1,18:38:09,,,ok,18182,09/26/2017 18:38:09,SorenMoyer,reader,, 854267,35329,toffeeweb,26/09/2017,Stephen Dingsdale,s.dingsdale@btinternet.com,One Adult ticket for sale 07845468810,One Adult ticket for sale 07845468810,,,1,18:42:38,,,ok,7496,09/26/2017 18:42:38,steveefc,reader,, 854268,35551,toffeeweb,26/09/2017,Ray Smith,smithray278@gmail.com,"Until we pay top 4 prices, we won't get top 4 players, end of.

It will take someone like Cavani to be used as bait for others to follow, until then forget it.

I've said it before: we talk the talk but don't walk it.

Pat Waine
91 Posted 27/09/2017 at 11:57:29
James (#76),

No comparison with these managers, Moyes and Martinez with Koeman. The first two had no money.

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