Everton open talks with Chelsea over Zouma

Let's face it they have a Transfer Ban (which doesn't look like being overturned) they have no Manager at present, the owner is prohibited from entering the country, Cahill has left, Rudiger is out injured for a while.

I know they have a massive pool of players, so maybe if Frank Lampard is given the post of Manager he may prefer Tomori, who he had on loan at Derby, to Zouma, with Christensen, Ampadou and I am not sure who else, as first choices.

Maybe Zouma has asked for assurances of game time and having not received that guarantee has said "stick your Club where the sun don't shine I want to go to Everton where I am wanted and loved, so there". :-)

We live in hope though, and it would be brilliant if we could pull this one off.

Fingers crossed Rob, be just like a new signing.

We will have to wait until Lampard is installed as manager, and runs the rule over his squad.

As we all know he won’t be in a position to buy players, however there are players who were on loan, especially Derby, who he knows and may well be ahead of Zouma in the packing order.

It would be a great signing, but I don’t expect any progress on this for a week or two.

Footballers pleeeezz!

It definitely would be our most important signing. Zouma is a top-class centre-back, one who I would be really happy if we could sign him.

Future Everton captain? For me, yes... food for thought for fellow ToffeeWebbers.

He signed a 6-year contract in July 2017.

However! If the stories are true, then Everton would not be "opening negotiations" with a club determined not to sell.

It could be similar to Vlasic, if he says he wants out, even with all that's going on at Chelsea, no Club would want to keep players who want to move away and have expressed a desire to do so.

I'm surprised we haven't got a deal over the line yet. Didn't Marco say we knew our targets in January? Shouldn't we of been working out some of the finer details since then? He seemed confident that we would be capable of getting who we wanted.

Perhaps, it's all waiting on the chain to begin (ie, one big transfer that has a ripple effect)? Could be waiting on Lukaku's move to trigger the merry-go-round.

But backs up Brian #10s post about a contract extension.

Strangely though, it appears as if he took a minor pay cut to sign that extension! Zouma would probably double his wages coming to us as that website claims he is on £40k

Also read elsewhere our loan fee for last year was £8 million.

In Brands we trust, in Kenwright we rust!

I'd love Zouma back at Everton, especially the way we started keeping clean sheets towards the end of the season, so let's see what happens next...

I believe they have set up a transfer elsewhere and are just playing the waiting game...

Or maybe Zouma has said nothing and we are hoping that Chelsea agree to sell and Everton hope they can persuade Zouma to sign for us.

Chelsea also have Marcus Alonso, who although primarily a full back, has I believe played centre back for Chelsea, and also Cesar Azpilicueta and Davide Zappacosta as defenders, so they are not exactly short in that department.

Added to this, I should imagine that there are other "suits" deciding who stays and goes rather than a yet to be appointed Manager?

Could be a fantastic piece of business considering Madchester Utd are being told £80m for Maguire if true?

I think a deal is on the table and we will be quickly told yes or no as to whether they will sell, then we can move to other targets if not.

Centre-halves are all about partnerships, and getting used to each other, and I found last season that, the more he and Keane played together, the better they became.

Personally, I think Zouma is ahead of Luiz and Christensen but behind Rudiger. Whichever way you look at it, Chelsea usually cash in on surplus players they don't think good enough. I wouldn't be surprised if a deal can't be done.

As ever we live in hope eternal.

I agree, Zouma is one I rate very highly. In saying that I've yet to see a single player solely responsible for a teams success or failure.

On the matter of have we approached Chelsea before approaching Zouma - nowadays all the sounding out is done via the player's agents - so I think we can safely assume that:-

1) Zouma knows;

2) he has been made an offer that is acceptable to him / his agent and he is therefore willing to come, otherwise;

3) there would be very little point in "Everton opening negotiations with Chelsea".

4) It may of course come to nothing but, given 1), 2) and 3), it is fairly encouraging that we have got this far.

My fingers et al. are well and truly crossed.

Having said that, I don't expect either Tomori or Clarke-Salter to break through at the very top level, and both may go out on loan again this year.

John G, and Neil, I would argue that Eden Hazard made that difference at Chelsea, and when he was out, which was fairly rare, they looked very ordinary indeed. They will have one hell of a job this coming season without him.

Fair point.

It may well be that Silva has to start looking at another experienced centre back as cover unless he feels Holgate could step in when needed but I am not too sure about that unless it's one of those games were you can play three at the back.

Chelski being in Europe however, can attract a class centre back on loan if they don't want Zouma.

They just can't play 'em.

I'm curious to know who Brands has lined up after Zouma. Llorente doesn't strike me as an obvious fit with the Premier League. I would love to pip Arsenal to Saliba from St Ettienne; that would send a good message. When's the last time we beat a team above us to a signing they wanted?

Gomes (I'm sure), Lukaku, Deulofeu, Barry, Lennon, Pienaar, Howard, Arteta.

Once Everton has touched you.

Plus I happen to agree with you that Zouma is a better player than Christensen, and I think it's more likely than not that Lampard will agree as well.

Bottom line is I've assumed from the start that he's already gone. But we gotta try, right? Who knows?

Brian #37, I didn't know that. They can actually buy players and put 'em in the fridge until the ban is lifted? That's weird.

Tommy #15, Spotrac has been my go-to source for this information for years, and I find both them and Transfermarkt to be quite accurate.

By the Distin comparison, I don't just mean the odd really fatal mistake. He has that, for sure. Against Arsenal at the Emirates earlier in the season, he was abysmal and at fault for 2 goals.

I mean, his physical supremacy often looks impressive but it is mostly the result of poor decision making, positioning and reading of the game.

For me, if a central defender is often making last-ditch steaming tackles and using sheer pace to destroy an attack, then you've got a problem and a big one. I always felt this with Distin. And I feel it with Kurt Zouma.

This doesn't make him a bad player, not at all. But we have seen his ceiling.

I would rather we build around Mina, with a view to signing another to eventually replace Keane... or see Holgate given an opportunity to develop.

Frankly, it surprised the hell out of me.

He's too good to be on the bench at this stage of his career, but is he good enough for the level they are playing at?

Chelsea generate good money from buying young, loaning out, and then selling at a profit, but they have just banked big on Hazard so there is no pressure to generate funds, especially if they can't spend them!!

He would be a good signing for us but, with Gomes likely to sign too, it would be good to see some new faces coming in soon. If both the loan players sign, we are basically just back to par with last season's squad. A bit like the situation after Bobby's first season.

I wonder if it's worth pointing out that we've spent 300 million quid on players since then? Probably not...

Tommy Carter — spot on!

Not ideal for us if the option is exercised but could be worth a try if Silva thinks we have a decent short term back up.

Yeh, I think Barca, wasn't it, did it. But you'd have to really want someone and they'd have to be prepared not to play for a good while.

I think, if I'm not mistaken, you can buy but not register or something like that, could be wrong though Mike, perhaps each ruling is different.

Anyway can't see 'em doing it even if they can.

Chelsea cannot register players in the next two transfer windows ie. this summer and next January, so the whole of the 2019-20 season. It does not actually stop them buying players. But because the players cannot be registered they cannot play - as Barcelona did in buying Arda Turan and Aleix Vidal in 2015 while under a transfer embargo. But very few players will agree to this. Chelsea can sell players and can also recall players from loan. The only exception is the Chelsea’s women’s team and the futsal team who can trade as normal. Chelsea must also pay a fine of £460,000 and have 90 days to “regularise the situation of the minor players concerned” which may involve forcing them to move on anyone brought to the club in contravention of the rules.

When Jags left, he said he had had to wait on the club making a last-minute decision on whether to keep him. This suggests there is a level of at least optimism about getting a target centre-back to replace him.

The Llorente story has all the hallmarks of a complete fabrication. Club just waiting on a £30m offer and such nonsense coming out of Spain. So, the little evidence we have suggests we will probably get one of our centre-back targets. There's a fair chance it will be Zouma but it won't be Llorente.

Aye, Alan, I can see it now at preseason at the Bridge:

Chelsea manager: "Eh, where's big Kurt"?
Somebody else: "Er, he got sold to Everton, boss."
Manager: "What? Who the fuck sanctioned that?"
Player: "Don't know, boss."
Manager: "How much did we get for him?"
Player: "I hear it was £5m plus that guy over there."

New guy walks over to new manager with the biggest whitest grin ever seen. "Hello, I'm Oumar."

However, Mr Brands is the main man and I wouldn't rule out him getting Zouma signed up, even when the odds are against him.

ps: ; ) Love it, Brian.

Add on the end ...."Anyone know where my locker is?"

So For example, they buy Van Dijk from the RS then loan him back to the RS for 12 months. The ban is, in effect a 12 month ban after all.

Given most clubs loaning out players they don’t need/want pay a large part of their wages, that seems like a terrible deal for Everton - if true. He would have been sat on Chelsea’s bench all season had he not been loaned out so can’t see how/why we would have paid £8m.

Denis. Everton paid £2m loan fee for Zouma, mate.

Kim. I noticed that too, but just giggled to myself. That's the gentlemanly thing to do. ;-)

I think you mean "...I would be surprised if a deal can't be done", or "...I wouldn't be surprised if a deal could be done". What you actually said interprets as "...I would be surprised if a deal could be done". Double negatives 'n' all that.

Hope you're well, and I thoroughly enjoy your posts and insight, by the way. Keep it up – and just ignore my pedantics!

You should have a quick read through of your post too
A couple of extra words in there.

Koulibaly & Maguire.

Are they – at £80 million and £60 million – better players than Zouma?

Where did you see the £2 million loan fee? I seen it in a few places (not sure how accurate they were) as €8 million.

It was on one of the reliable sites but can't remember which one sorry. Common sense should tell us though that we'd never pay £8m for a season-long loan.

I'll see if I can find it again and post a link, mate.

One is Tomas Kalas, who joined the club in 2010 and has made two appearances. He has basically spent the last eight seasons out on various loans, mostly in the Championship, last at Bristol City.

The other is Matt Miazga, who just spent a half season on loan at Reading after previous loans to Vitesse and Nantes. He's a USA international so I've seen a lot of him, and he's truly awful. Right now he's at the Gold Cup, deservedly riding the US bench behind two MLS players (who aren't much good either).

So yeah, I'd say Chelsea are desperate at the moment.

Everton have finally completed a deal to sign Chelsea defender Kurt Zouma on loan for the season - more than 23 hours after the transfer window closed.

The Premier League have finally signed off on the Frenchman's move to Goodison Park, making him the Toffees fourth signing in the last 24 hours.

Both Everton and Chelsea submitted deal sheets before Thursday's 5pm deadline.

And although both were made to wait, Zouma has completed a move to join the Merseysiders' for the 2018-19 campaign, for a loan fee of £2million.

They have had at least £5m in loan fees for Zouma. If they sell him for £25-30m to us then they have made £35m from a player who barely played for them and only cost a decent fee.

I wasn't doubting you. It was just (at the time) the only references of the fee I could find were on Transfermarkt.

I had no idea how reliable a site it was. It did seem a little high but I had hoped the figure included his salary.

As much as I would love to have Zouma in our ranks, as with Andre Gomes, I wouldn't go too high in terms of a Transfer Fee. By that I mean, anything well over £30M would have M Brands possibly thinking elsewhere.

I believe Mr Brands to be a shrewd operator and savvy with what players are actually worth, against what is being asked for, as opposed to the Koeman - Walsh system we'll send a blank cheque, just fill in the amount, it's not our money anyway approach.

Kalas is the one I can't figure out. They've signed him to two extensions and he's contracted thru 2021, but he's obviously never going to play for them.

The defensive improvement was down to a combination which gave more than the sum of its parts and the whole team finally started to learn they must do everything together, be it attack or defend, it definitely took the pressure of the back four.

Keane or Mina and Zouma blend well, I imagine there is a 2nd target in the same mould as Zouma if he cannot be secured. No great loss in my mind if we cannot get big Kurt Zeeeee!

Same with Bolasie. Very much think Sandro will see his contract out here. What a shit season he had.

Koulibaly is reported to command a £100 million fee. Is he an £80 million better player than Zouma?

Maguire is reportedly an £80 million fee. Is he a £60 million better player than Zouma?

The answer is no in both cases.

I disagree with your comments.

Zouma doesn't play anything like Distin. I would say more like Koulibaly. Therefore I guess Koulibaly is also a liability as they have very similar physiques and styles.

For one Distin didn't have the physical prowess and intimidation that Zouma brings to the field. Distin's positional awareness when under pressure and running backwards was suspect.

Zouma like Koulibaly is a solid centreback. For any striker or forward in the league he's a beast and fucking hard work...

Distin was a poor mans Lescott.

Last season it was reassuring to see strikers baffled and frustrated as they could not get past Zouma. He held the line incredibly well and playing alongside Zouma brought Keane's game on.

No defender can predict with certainty where the attacking team will place the ball, therefore breaking up attacks and winning the ball back as many times as he did clearly shows he reads the game pretty well.

It baffles me how dismissive we are of consistent good play and only focus on one or two human errors as the ultimate judge of a players ability. By this standard both Mina and Keane should hang up their boots as they made far more errors at the back than Zouma.

Zouma was our best defender last season and it showed. Not even a question I want him back.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6sYl3ECkbs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OT9CxJLHMT8

Going on the slightest possibility that you're serious, I'd ask in what weird and wonderful world would a lending club pay the loaning club a fee, and then pay part of the loanee's salary?

If you're NOT serious... then yeh, good one.

As for Zouma's value, I used to spend a lot of time watching the top European leagues and Zouma and Hazard were two of the best young players at that time. I truly believe if we pay £30m for Zouma and he gets regular game time then he will be up there with the leagues best.

Same applies to Koulibaly, absolute beast with pace, strength and solidity. £30m player going up in value to £60-80m is the business model we need to adopt. Sell them at their maximum potential if we can't break the top 4 and re-invest again.

Looking at NOW, surely Zouma is a very good player for us and, in my opinion, one that could be even better with our management.

Sometimes it is who fits at the right time. That isn't defeatest, just how great sides are often put together.

Not only are we forming arguments based on who is "reportedly" interested in who, we are using the "reported" fees to justify them.

Back in the real world, if Chelsea thought this guy was top class, they would not have loaned him out to be relegated.
If they thought he had improved that season, they would not have loaned him straight back out again to us.
If they thought he was anywhere near as good as some people are making out, there would not be any negotiations.
If other clubs thought he was top class, there would be a stampede to take him and the price would be out of our reach.

The days when seemingly every Evertonian was a knowledgeable football lover are over. When we get top class footballers, they're hounded until they leave to go and win trophies elsewhere. Yet ordinary players are welcomed with the most embarrassing of fanfares.

When I hear some of the things being said when we have signed very ordinary players, I have to say, I can't tell the difference between some Evertonians and your average Stoke fan.

Zouma is a young lad by centre-half standards and during that dozen or so game window, I think we may just have seen glimpses of what he is capable of becoming. A very good solid defender. He seems to like it here too and if we can get him at the right price, we would be mad not have him aboard, but "our most important signing"? ... Funnily enough, that's what the Stoke fans said when they tried to re-sign him.

Shit man. Bang on.

The rest?

Not too bad given he did well for us. Probably wouldn’t have finished as high so the extra prize money nets off.

Chelsea stockpile good players in the hope they find a gem. They loan them out to get experience, change manager every five minutes, then the new guy comes in and buys his favourites. All this while, in theory, they stay the right side of FFP and making a profit on the players they sell.

Pleasant surprise for me if Zouma's with us next season.

Jeez, the lad was a beast in most games and for me is a no brainer. We will be weaker without him.

...If they thought he was anywhere near as good as some people are making out. There would not be any negotiations.”

Because Chelsea have never misjudged a player's potential or regretted letting him leave. Salah, De Bruyne, Lukaku...

Martina captained Curacao to the greatest win in their history, a 1-0 shocker over Honduras in the Gold Cup. First-ever tournament victory of any kind.

Honduras got a ridiculous 35 shots and couldn't score.

By all accounts, he is still available most week-ends for Children's Parties, as long as there are no balls involved.

If this is the case, and as appears likely, Frank Lampard becomes the new Manager, I hope he (Zouma) tells him exactly that. Any manager wants to know who he can rely on and who wants to be there at the start of his new tenure.

"Should City end up doing the same for Maguire, it would simply confirm that the £48m spent on John Stones three years ago had not quite landed the complete defender Pep Guardiola had in mind. Stones's appearance record for City last season suggested something similar and, though the player's errors in an England shirt a couple of weeks ago were blamed on a lack of game time in the second half of the season, there must have been a reason Guardiola kept leaving him out in favour of the experienced, reliable but not exactly risk-free Vincent Kompany."

Emphasises the point of what we would be getting for £25 million if we bought Zouma.

Hi, Hugh (69) – Yes. I believe you're right. Hmmm...

They said he was too cocky, error-strewn and wouldn't make it. They said he would never play for a top club. Yet, the world's top two coaches did battle for his services. It eventually took £50M to land him (about £80M at today's rate) and he has played in a team that has won the last two Premier League titles.

Zouma could well be an Everton player soon, because the club he plays for doesn't seem too keen to keep him and the rest of the top seven have shown no interest. That could work out quite nicely for us, although quite how his possible arrival has anything to do with a departure which took place three years ago is beyond me.

Transfer fees are not dictated by an ill-informed Journo plucking figures from the air. They are arrived at like any other cost – supply and demand.

When a player leaves Everton, he no longer has any bearing on any business we do. "I've got nothing against him personally" obsessions won't alter that fact.

Darren, you've just turned a £48 million pound transfer fee and "plucked" an £80 million fee from the air.

Tad contradictory?

Whilst he's certainly not the disaster some on here and elsewhere are making him out to be, he's certainly not top drawer either.

Contrary to the ill-informed claims from people determined to pursue Stones for the rest of his career (He'll be distraught about that). Stones initially lost his place through injury. He suffered a groin strain and had to retire from the Bournemouth game.

Nearly three weeks later, Southgate tried called him up in March and Pep Guardiola flipped:

"He is injured. He is not ready to play. Stones made an effort in the last two days before the Schalke game. He was not good. We made a test for him today and he doesn't feel good. That is the reason he hasn't been training for us."

After playing him in all the big games up until then. I think this statement drives a coach and horses through the desperate claim that he was dropped because Pep didn't trust him.

I'm done talking about John Stones. He does not belong on this thread. This is about Zouma and our realistic alternatives if he decides not to Sign.

Holgate all day long for me.

If that was the case what would be looking at, Mina and Keane as first choice with Holgate as back up and if any of them were injured and required a lengthy recovery time or even just 3 or 4 weeks who would step up as third choice, Feeney? Surely we wouldn't play three at the back for a prolonged time and would we buy a third central defender on that basis alone despite the fact that is what we are doing if we sign Zouma?

Of course I was joking. I can't believe we actually got a side to take Sandro off us. Can you?

Now we will have him back and l will again be holding my breath till some other club takes some of his wages off our hands. Might be harder this time...

I'm now just having to lie down for a bit as I've just read above that Distin wasn't very good. Wasn't physical enough or something. The weird and wacky world of ToffeeWeb.

That is factually incorrect. John was a substitute for every game after that period, except one when he didn't make the squad.

He was not selected to start in 14 out of 38 Premier League games. Why do you think that was?

Pep Guardiola – "He is a young player an international English player. He is a huge part of the reason why we won the title. I don't know how long I will be in Manchester, but as long as I'm here, John Stones will be with us.

When he is injured and comes back, injured and comes back, injured and comes back, it's not easy. I'm sorry for the guys who announce we are going to want to sell him – They LIE. I'm not going to comment on a transfer. It's fake news."

Thanks for clearing that one up, Pep.

Now... Perhaps we can start discussing the defenders who will be wearing ROYAL blue shirts next season?

He probably will be.

Question is: will Pep start him in more than the 24 league games he selected him to start last season? Pep did not select him to start in 14 league games last season. Fact.

If he was repeatedly injured, and you are using that as a reason he wasn't selected in 14 Premier League games, why was he on the bench in the vast majority of them games?

Happy to discuss Everton defenders as long as we stick to the facts.

You sound like the knight in Monty Python. Your hatred for stones is hilarious. I don't know why Pep put him on the bench while he was not 100% you may need to ask him that. I do know that managers have been doing it since time began.

Read his comments. "Injured comes back, injured comes back, Injured comes back." He repeats it THREE times, almost certainly for the benefit of the morons who want to argue in the face of cast iron fact.

You have read a piece of wild speculation from a daft arsed journo. That's why ONCE AGAIN. you have introduced this half-witted argument to yet another thread. You thought Pep had proved your point.

Unfortunately for you, you were blissfully unaware of his statement dismissing foolish claims from people he brands Liars.

He makes a complete mockery of the argument you have so doggedly tried to win.

A touch of surplus emotion in your post, Darren. To jump from not rating a player as top class to being labelled as "hating" him is irrational and imbecilic.

There were 7 fixtures left after the "injury" you say kept him out. As he was left out of 14 Premier League starting line-ups, what is your reason for him being left out of the other 7?

If he's "the best centre-half in Europe", as you have described him, why would he be left out of them games?

"You have read a piece of wild speculation from a daft-arsed journo." Not sure what you are ranting about there. Can you expand on that?

In closing, it's debate. Keep a positive outlook and always look on the bright side of life.

Nobody goes to that sort of trouble... unless they are desperate.

Read the article. the injury is clearly a niggling one and action took place 3 weeks before the England game. The manager brands your source a liar peddling fake news. You are simply making a Cheshire out of yourself.

We spoke about Stones on another thread recently. You were desperately trying to show him in a bad light. Your "opinions" about Stones make recent attacks against Jonjoe Kenny look like a eulogy.

You always seem to bring this ex-player into threads he doesn't belong on. Post #100 being the latest example.

You argue that it's not obsession. But that's how it's coming across. One thread was even closed because you wouldn't quit trying to denigrate him.

Peps statement ensures the debate is now out of runway. None of it matters. The guy doesn't play for us anyway. Let it go.

I know Dazza from school and Everton matches. After 28 years of being in The States, me and the family will be up in God's own city in July. We'll be having a big bash round his house. Why don't you come around and help us drink all his beer?

I can assure you he's nothing like the grumpy spikey character he appears to be on here.

He's far worse.

It's a shame that Tomori was so woeful at the U21 Euros. Perhaps if he had put in a stellar tournament, it may have convinced the powers at Chelsea that he was ready to step up but as it is they would be absolutely bonkers to sell Zouma to us!

If they offer him a starting spot and a new contract, I'd be very surprised if he said no.

Sounds like your both cut from the same cloth. A difference of opinion becomes an obsession?

Your drinking partner is the one prolonging the debate. Check his post out 109:
"Unless John Stones signs for Everton in the future, this is the last time I will talk about him on these pages."

Then have a look how many times he contradicts that. Thanks for the invite but I've got a more pleasant appointment having my teeth taken out.

I'm not him and I certainly won't be engaging with you any further. You can claim you are merely offering opinion till you are blue in the face. But your morbid obsession, which spreads across several, threads is obvious to all.

Not that much of a Stones fan myself. But I'm really rather pleased that Pep's statement exposes your false claims tor what they are. The lies of a bitter man.

Toodles.

But I can't see it happening until Chelsea have overturned their transfer ban and I think it will run on and on and on...

We need to have another option in place. A top defender ready to hit the ground running.

He enjoyed his spell here immensely and has progressed as a footballer at Everton under Marco Silva. Marco will have told him if he signs he is a permanent first choice starter on his recent form.

Additionally there is a partnership factor with Keane.

The two players complemented each other in the last 1/3 of the season. They brought out the best in each other and fought together well. More importantly they both looked like they were really enjoying their football, playing with a smile on their faces whilst banging out clean sheets week after week.

All added up it wouldn't surprise me if he was pushing for a permanent move. With a manager, fans and teammates that are unanimous in their appreciation of him, it has got to be a good career move for him. Especially as we are a team on the up, top 6 and a trophy is really achievable for next season and that's just for starters.