The Mis-Handling of Moise Kean

I've read rumors already linking him with a loan move to AC Milan. Can't see how that would in any way shape or form benefit Everton but it may be complete rubbish.

The Watford situation reminded me a lot of Moyes handling (mishandling?) of Ross Barkley years ago when he was hauled off at Blackburn. Ross never really progressed from that until Martinez came along. I'm hoping it works out better with Kean.

I see a very good player in Kean, well described by yourself Lyndon, the only thing missing from the lads play up to now is time on the field with another striker alongside him. I hope this is rectified very soon, either off the bench with a good thirty minutes or starting at Southampton.

This young boy has really not been given a proper chance up to now, while Richarlison and Sigurdsson have hardly missed any games and hardly done anything or looked like doing anything.

Why do we always scour the world for potential players signing them for ridiculous sums and then moving them on.

Please give homegrown talent a chance, particularly this season as it is obvious the top six will not be attained..Seems like it took Mason Holgate to go to Marco Silva's office to get a couple of games recently.

I hope Kean is allowed to play in a system befitting his talents before we even think of parting with him.

What does concern me is that when he gets the ball he seems to want to instantly try and beat a man or move forward on his own before attempting a shot, without considering potential passing options around him. Maybe he's simply trying too hard.

I'm afraid I'm not convinced, he seems to be very heavy in the lower body and I think he's going to find the Premier League a struggle.

I didn't realize he went all Gazza '90 on us. Makes better sense now...

He seems to have done his best since the lad was acquired to give him a baptism by fire.

I now see a player who is way off the first couple of introductions when you could see his potential. Now he looks bereft of confidence and unsure what to do.

Silva is supposed to be the expert at improving players. We have yet to see the evidence.

I'm glad there's somebody else that feels like I do. I have reservations about the lad that I hope are totally wrong.

I know he's only 19. I know he's in a new league in a new country but I fear he won't be the player we all hope he'll become. Again I sincerely hope I'm wrong.

To date, I've not seen Everton set up to get the most out of a player who could shine. He is a centre-forward and at worst an inside-orward who plays high as a part of a three close the No 9.

He prefers the ball to feet or in behind, can clearly turn a man and needs the ball close to the area.

Instead, he's been asked to play wider and provide defensive cover, when he has been up front the balls have been into his chest he's had to fight for it and he has barely had a chance, save for his 1st appearance.

The frustration on Tuesday when Richarlison scuffed a cross for a tap in for him was palpable as he shook is his in disbelief. Do you reckon the lad has even trained in that formation with those players around him?

Despite the teams travails and managers position all which might point to some mitigation, the player has been grossly mismanaged for my money.

He isn't the only one on that side. It's a very good indicator that the team isn't practiced in playing different situations and formations as the game changes around them.

Until the lad plays with decent service in a position and tactics right for him, there's no way you can look at him and say he's failing.

Give the youngsters minutes in real games! We've had "wage-earners" on for the past 10+ years, usually exchanging places.

A good U23 player can only become a contender for a place in the Premier League squad if he's ever allowed to dip his toes in often enough to get them burned! That's how they learn to become men!

In contrast we've heard a lot about how Walcott and Morgan in particular "train well" and "work hard." I'm wondering if it's just a maturity thing, or a generational thing.

Is Silva going hard on the younger players so they don't go the way of Lingard and Alli? ie, downhill once they get some praise. Is he not as comfortable working with younger players and struggling to understand and inspire them?

Is that how football really works?

Even more laughable is Silvas reluctance to play Kean ahead of a player that scores every 8-9 games. It shows just how limited Silva really is, a total joke of a manager that should never have been appointed in the first place, and should have been sacked following our defeat to Bournemouth.

Yet, quite unbelievably, he continues to stink our club out with his rank stupidity and complete and utter inability to manage a club at any Premier League level.

My main comment is with his back to goal his shielding of the ball is poor. That can be fixed with experience but, in our precarious situation, can we afford it?

Furthermore, I believe once he gets a goal and gets that monkey off his back, the lad will grow in confidence, provided he is treated fairly in his deployment.

On a semi-related note, could anyone imagine this as our front 3 in a couple of years?

Neres, Kean, Richarlison

My my, yes please!

No doubt he's raw and nervous and he needs our full backing; but I would have liked to see more sign that he is a player just waiting to ignite.

I don't know if Kean will do the business for us, but I would think that if Silva thought (right now) he was capable of starting as our centre forward he would be starting.

It seemed to me it was the right decision to hook Kean the other night. Brands should have gone and got Costa on loan, Kean, Calvert-Lewin and even our senior players would have learned a lot from this man.

Nonetheless, I agree with the basic premise that getting this lad on the pitch is important... not just to him but to us. He may be trying too hard, but that intensity of effort is a good thing that seems contagious -- and with his physical strength, he wins every ball he challenges for. He's made a difference late in a couple of games.

And I have none of the reservations about his talent that seem to burden Brian. I saw his instincts with Juve and I've seen his power with us, and I think he will be just fine, even if it's not until 2020.

The season then becomes one to see what youngsters can do it in the Premier League. If this pans out, he must give Gibson, Kean, Davies, Gordon, Adeniran, Baningime some game time, at least a couple of games each on the run.

If Silva won't do it, I'm sure Brands will find a manager who will!

My comment about Kean took into account that Silva's seemingly unchangeable game plan is a slow build-up involving umpteen players and multiple passes. It is not based on fast play with a minimum of passes that could better suit Kean.

Dare I say that is similar to Man City and Liverpool in style.

Calvert- Lewin has taken dogs abuse. Even on these pages we have seen his name dominate post match threads as people battered away game after game. Those very same people now seem to have had the blinkers removed. They are now understanding what a monumental ask it was.

Kean mismanaged ? yes. You would hate to think he too had to wait the best part of three years to get a run in his proper position. I don't think his first touch is as good as DCL's. Which means the task, for him, will be all the more difficult.

It would be wonderful to think this boy was the answer to our goal scoring problems, but I think Lyndon is right. I just dont see him sticking around

Barcelona were playing 4-4-2 as recently as last year.

Maybe it's not that laughable.

Everytime he play's it's like we're playing with a man light.

The lad need's games but we need point's I can see him going back to Italy myself it's a bad move by Brands and co. bringing a young talent into a team desperate for the finished article.

It's been a miserable World Cup for us Irish. England have played the best Rugby by a mile and would be deserving winners.

I still think(hope) Silva will be gone by Christmas, so hopefully Kean will get a run of games in the no.9 role then.

I am starting to get very muched pissed with Mr Silvas gross mis-management of, ,,well take your pick ? (youth, injured players, tactics, substitutions etc etc) thats without looking at the results

On a slightly different topic can anybody explain to me WTF is the point of these pre-match "conferences" I see every Friday?? where Silva gets asked the same mundane easy ass question by the same journo who sounds like an Official club "plant"

This week they were leisurely chewing the fat as usual and massaging the figures around home results to make it sound like he was Sir Alex Ferguson ffs

If the mark of a great coach be that he gets the most of the players at his disposal ? Can anybody think of ONE who is playing above themselves ? I am stumped

If this lad was playing for General Franco down at Stamford Bridge he woud be banging them in I am sure of it

Ireland seem to stuck in a cycle out of sync with WC. Always good in between but fading by the time the big one rolls around :/

If only we could travel back in time and have the dodo in charge play a real lineup from the get-go, not only are we nowhere near any talk of a relegation battle, we're hovering around the top 6 with ease.

Removing the pressure of having to get every point possible would have allowed Kean to be blooded in (love that term btw, pretty new to this Yank) as was what I can only imagine originally planned. What a horrible twist of irony that Silva made this mess, and as a result now can't use our shiny new high-potential toy. The other thing I think is worth mentioning is that it's not just Silva who feels the pressure of needing to win; it's every single guy who puts on the shirt. I think our 19-year-old can be forgiven for a "poor first touch" or whatever. Can anyone here imagine what he's feeling, or how much he wants to impress for his new team who badly need him to? I sure can't!

I think If you look at it that way, it's clear this is almost entirely on the manager, even if indirectly. I hope Brands has called the young lad into his office and whisperered "just be patient, kid, it'll all be over soon." 😂

We have bought potential in the same way we sold potential in lookman and vlasic.

It's a massive gamble to put the line share of goal scoring responsibilities on a 19 year old foreigner.

After the transfer deadline we all knew our hopes for a successful season rested on Kean's shoulders.

Silva to his credit has protected the lad. He doesn't look anywhere near ready for a regular slot. It may have seemed harsh to drag him off at half time the other night but it won us the game.

Kean has to stay patient, improve and wait for his chance. If he had a run in the team it could finish him as a player.

I always think of John Oster when we blood youngsters. The lad had bags of talent but was thrown into relegation scraps with us and still tried to play. Think he ended up having a long career in the lower divisions but the kid had potential to be a top player given the right guidance.

Most strikers - especially the mobile ones - get introduced to first team football with little stints on the wing and cameo sub appearances. It's the same at the other end of the pitch - most centre halves start off as full backs when they are young until they are up to speed with what is required.

Back to Kean. I cannot see how asking him to play as an attacking winger in a 4-2-3-1 system is in any way mishandling him. From what I have seen, he is at his best when he is running at pace with the ball. He should be able to play this position no problem at all, just like Richarlison does, and chip in with the odd goal. To my mind, he is far more suited to this position currently than centre forward. He played centre forward against Sheffield United and offered very little.

The kid is not ready. Off the top of my head, seasoned international strikers like Schevchenko, Forlan, Pavlyuchenko, Rebrov, Soldado etc have come to England with big reputations and struggled to get going.

To be perfectly honest, Kean hasn't done anything yet to warrant more minutes than he has received. He could have probably done a better job than Sigurdsson at Brighton away, that wouldn't have been hard. But in the wide positions, he is currently behind Bernard, Richarlison and Walcott on form - justifiably so in my book.

I still think he will come good, but it may be next season before we start to see a player in him. I think it's quite harsh, though, to suggest he is being mishandled when you actually analyse what he has produced when he has been on the pitch up until now.

And that spooks me in terms of progress, not only according to Moshiri's now totally failed, much-vaunted three-year "2016 project", but also for the next three years at least.

Still, Moshiri still seems to rely on who he deems to be his football guru in the boardroom, so what can (continue) to possibly go wrong eh, Farhad?

My word what a merry-go-round this debate is. So you think he's far more suited to a position that he's never played than one he's played his entire life? Bizarre logic, that. You don't hire a race car driver and ask him to change tires in the pit. He doesn't run at pace with the ball. He's a striker who needs to get the ball in the area. As few touches as possible. That's his game.

I really wish more were familiar with him before we signed him. It would really have cleared up a lot of this.

Brands and Silva also know that we need an established, proven goal scorer. That is the biggest mistake both of them have made. Bottom line is brands will keep his job whilst Silva is in the taxi. The Diago Costa link in the summer would have been interesting.

Start him Silva, the crowd know a decent player and as long as he trys hard will cut him some slack...for a while. We love a trier, eh Straq. Never underestimate putting in effort. If he gets onboard with this it will help.

I have based my opinion on what I have seen. He has looked better out wide for Everton than when he has played centrally.

You said that he doesn't run at pace with the ball – well, my eyes must have been deceiving me when he beat a few men on the right-wing against Lincoln City and hit the post with a rasping shot then. Likewise when he cut in from the left wing against Watford on his Goodison debut and fired a shot wide.

At the end of the day, he's only a kid. He started 5 games for Juve last year, and made 8 further appearances as sub. He's not ready to lead the line for Everton. He is young and mobile and more than capable of playing cameos wide and up front while he gets up to speed.

The winger position in our current formation is more advanced than the traditional winger role. You are expected to chip in with at least 10 goals a season playing where he has been asked to play. Most mobile young strikers would be able to play in this position no problem at all.

"Any thoughts of playing a two up top is laughable in today's game, no one does it for a very good reason."

Don't agree with that and surely if no one else was doing it, then arguably it's the right thing to do because it's different.

Asking a 19-year-old kid to lead the line for a team with top 4 aspirations is laughable. I like Brands, but the buck stops here with him..

I can't stress this enough, he doesn't play right. Just because Richarlison does or can doesn't mean Kean should be able to. That's false equivalency at its finest. Richarlison also knows Silva well and speaks the exact same language. Why should we expect him to learn a new position in a new formation on top of everything else he's being asked to learn?

You may consider that a limitation of his and that's a fair opinion for you to have. I see it otherwise only due to my familiarity with him before the Premier League. Juve didn't ask him to, why are we?

He definitely cannot lead the line, no argument from me there. But we don't really have a line. We have a lone striker with basically a 2nd striker behind him, and 2 wide guys who essentially play a more advanced midfield position. I'm not sure why you said they play more advanced than a typical winger though. That's not a 4-2-3-1.

A 4-3-3 would be a different story. Then the forwards are actually forward and positionally become inside strikers during the attack. He should be in or on the edge of the area getting the ball, not being asked to get there himself with the ball at his feet. He's even been quoted as saying he doesn't like to do so. He likes to get the ball, shoot, and score. And so the merry-go-round nature of this debate continues.

And chip in 10 goals? How many wings in the EPL did that last year? The answer is not many, and none of them are 19.

https://www.premierleague.com/stats/top/players/goals?se=79 (Don't forget to not count the actual strikers)

Anyway it's all a moot point as long as we're chasing points and are seemingly locked into this 4-2-3-1. Cheers and thanks for the good dialogue.

Danny says:
Most strikers - especially the mobile ones - get introduced to first team football with little stints on the wing and cameo sub appearances.

I find this to be true and accurate.

I have to ask, why? I don't see the logic in it at all. And Danny is also right, we see kids who are CBs played at LB or RB. Stones and Holgate to name two. Stones playing RB particularly infuriated me at the time. He wasn't near as effective out there, but Martinez gave him some games at RB, and if anything I thought it hindered Stones' progress.

Why do football managers do this?

It's a really great point by Danny. But I don't buy playing a kid out of position to get acclimatized to the game. Let him get up to speed in his natural position.

I keep lauding Frank at Chelsea for playing Mason Mount and (name escapes me, forgive) that young striker. He didn't put the striker out wide, and he didn't play Mount out wide or anywhere but in the middle. They're great young talents, and now they are flourishing. They were played where they're meant to play.

Can anyone answer why so many football managers do this with younger players?

I've stated before, my background is hockey. If you played a center at left wing, or a defenseman anywhere else but at defense, the coach would be crucified. I just don't get it.

There's a hellava lot of wise football minds on TW. Someone please explain the thinking behind this common path to "development" for me.

I really don't expect to see Kean much this season & when we do I expect it will mainly be him coming on as a substitute. Hopefully, this will mainly be in matches that we've already established an emphatic lead & are heading for victory.

But there is a pattern of very erratic use of young players emerging under Silva, which betrays zero long term thinking.

Davies was handed the captains arm band and then for unfathomable reasons left out for an extended period.

Lookman was lauded as a fantastic talent and then given limited game time to showcase it - with the manager publicly saying he was not training well enough.

Holgate frozen out, then loaned, then brought in as he was the only available cover.

DCL handed the no 9 shirt then dropped for West Ham & Brighton despite being the club's leading scorer.

Now the issue with Kean.

Silva does not appear to have a plan for the young players. So many of them appear not to do what he wants in training or in matches.

Given that so many senior players are mis-firing too, it is logical to suggest that the problem lies, perhaps, with the coach and not the younger or older talent at his disposal.

I'm sure Kean was promised a start in these games. I'm not sure about Kean at the moment. He looked good his first couple games from the bench but since then the ball tends to bounce off him. Who in their right mind would start him wide right?

I don't even think Walcott is a natural winger either but he seems to be finding more time closer up top the past few games which is why his attitude seems to have improved.

Even though Kean would not of liked being taken off at half time, and l hope he still isn't sulking about it and wants to buckle down for his next chance. Silva deserve credit for the sub so to change the game as it got us through.

Trouble is we also have Tosun chomping at the bit and unlikely to even make the bench on Sunday. We have good players that have been mismanaged all over the pitch. Wonder where Niasse is... has he played at all for the under 23s or did l miss him going out on loan?

by mid teens Those who stood a chance of "making it" could apply or be invited for trials by professional and semi professional clubs where their talent would be judged.
Those who were invited back were judged again. . and again. By the time they were 14-15 they knew that if they were ever going to make a living in this game, they will be judged every single time they played. . for the rest of their careers.

The real clowns are those who don't judge. They think they see things in a player simply because they want it to be so. They don't understand that millions of players are dismissed every year, after just one trial. Often people who are doing the judging have already seen enough after one game

The judgement never stops. Every year we hear of young lads having their hearts broken by the news that they are not going to be offered a contract.

I mentioned DCL because the start of his career was very similar to the path to the one we see young Kean being forced to walk.
Some clowns have spent years hammering him. They have long since abandoned reasoned judgement. confirmation bias has destroyed any balance they may once have possessed.
It's ironic that a guy who has systematically battered DCL now has trouble stopping his lip quivering over a simple observation made about Kean.

Moise kean could do a lot worse than look to DCL for inspiration. He too was asked to play here, there and everywhere. but despite the often mindless hammering from people who didnt know any better and despite the fact that the club have spend untold millions on forwards, He is still the one who is getting the gig.

Its important we don't get to carried away with these claims of mismanagement. Silva could undoubtedly been kinder to Kean, but at what cost ? Clubs have always experimented with youngsters. How else do they find out what they can do ? What they are made of.

Tom Davies as only just turned 21, but already we have all seen him play many different roles. DM,CM,AM,WM, We've even seen Tom play at full back.
I sometimes wondered if people who have battered away at the likes of Tom Davies and DCL have ever played the game. If they actually understand how difficult it is to be shunted all over the pitch. Its difficult enough for a senior pro.

Personally, I find the difference in reaction to the "mismanagement" of Kean (a multi million pound foreigner) and the mismanagement of two lads who come through the ranks from Rhino's team to be almost impossible to comprehend.

He's played as a wide striker successfully before in Italy so deploying him for a start in that position against Watford - we don't play with ‘wingers' - wasn't unreasonable.

He's done nothing to deserve a first choice pick in the No 9 position (or elsewhere) and has been brought on whenever opportune to do so.

I'd suggest he continues to learn the ropes from Walcott and DCL while he builds his body and makes sure he's ready to impress when called upon.

DCL and Richarlison have both looked better.

My issue is that he's not well cut out to profit from the type of football we play. Despite being quite big he's not good in the air and is not suited to a system where the attacking comes from full backs crossing.

I think now Iwobi is playing 10 (hopefully to continue) he might do better and get more balls to feet or slipped into the box which is more to his strengths.

He's good, I think, at finding space in the box and getting off accurate shots quickly. He's not good at getting on the end of long crosses from full backs.

The team is more important than one youngsters development and despite the price tag he has to earn his place like everyone should. I think he will do a lot more than we've seen but we can help him (and the whole team) by mixing up our attacking strategies.

Its not exclusive to Everton mate. They all do it.
You mention the Chelsea youngsters but they do have been played out of position. They too have been loaned out. They do have been inexplicably dropped.

You ask why youngsters are often asked to play in positions which are alien to them. Let me give you my take.

These players are now at the stage were clubs want/have to experiment. to see If they can play different roles if needed. What are their boundaries. Unfortunately most young professionals have to do their apprenticeship under the the critical eye of Joe public. You cannot replicate the pressures of a real match at the training ground. You have to know if these guys can cope.

The other reason I think it happens is more cynical. I think its the senior players.
In days gone by senior players would do all they could to assist in the development of their apprentice's. Not anymore. They are selfish bastards who have secured themselves a very nice contract. Many of them wont countenance playing out of position.
The youngsters who are trying to make the grade will play anywhere just to be given a shot.
It takes a strong character to force a senior pro to play in a different role to the one he prefers and it can very easily be counter productive. a weak manager will always take the easy option and turn to the willing youngster

Our wide men rarely cut inside, they spend most of their time on the touchline exchanging balls with the full backs.

How often do you see our 3 forwards in and around the box, hardly ever.

The reasons are multiple: Coleman especially isn't the full back we need who is capable of tearing it up down the right.

Our midfielders are pretty much glued to the middle of the pitch, and rarely move forward or cover wide positions.

So our forwards get stuck outside like wingers, and our 1 striker is isolated in the middle.

Kean has suffered because of this, so has Richarlison.

Silva's 'system' is woeful.

The whole youth development policy of Everton is not performing to the required standard. The coaching and nurturing of players at Everton is below par and weaknesses they have are not being identified or worked on.

A performance platform on the pitch by the squad is not being achieved consistently, which would enable young players introduction, does not exist.

Will Kean go the same way as Lookman and Valdec? Will he start pushing for a loan and not want to come back?

All very likely.

No problem whatsoever with Kean being played wide (with licence to move inside). More time and space out there for a young man learning his trade and trying to adapt to the pace of the Premier League.

We need to be very careful about suggesting that players are being mishandled when asked to play out of their desired position. Wasn't it Kieran Dyer who refused to play on the wing for Bobby Robson? He called it the biggest regret of his life once Robson had passed away.

Kean may WANT to be our number 9. Maybe in future that will be his role. But based on all of his appearances so far, including vs Sheff United when he played up front, I see no reason why he should currently be our number 9. DCL is playing the best football of his career, 5 in 5. The position is simply not up for grabs at the moment. So Kean should be chomping at the bit, willing to play anywhere to get game time - just like DCL did, and countless others before him.

How anyone can write this kid off after the amount of minutes he's had on the pitch so far is truly laughable.

Play him regularly and play him centrally and I don't want to hear any nonsense about ‘wide strikers.' If you play wide you are a winger, not a striker.

What our manager done to him on Tuesday was grim. Really, really poor.

We have basically swapped Lookman for Kean. I would rather have Kean any day of the week. He will become a beast of a player, but it will take some time. At 19 it is a big ask to be the finished article, at 21 it is too. It will take 3 - 4 years before we get a consistently 20 goal a season striker out of Moise.

Don't get me wrong, we will get flashes and periods of brilliance in the lead up to that over the next few years. But to be consistent at it takes time and some experience. I am no doubt whatsoever that Kean will achieve it. The skill, directness, the physicality is there for all to see. Its only a matter of time.

I think he has and is being mishandled. Playing with his back to goal is negating his attributes and is completely counter-productive. I am a huge fan of Dominic Calvert-Lewin who is coming on leaps on bounds this season.

DCL is getting better all the time at winning headers from speculative and defensive long balls. I would pair DCL and Moise together, tell them to become a team. I would say to Moise ''DCL will win the header, get the flick on. its's up to you to react and be onto it like a flash. Get ready to whizz past the last defender onto that flick on. or take one touch and get clear.

As soon as that ball is directed to DCL, Moise can be taught to come alive and be ready for the flick-on, defelction or glancing header. ''get ready - get into the best position'' ''use your instinct''

With Moise on the front foot it would cause panic and danger for any of the defenders I have seen in the premier league.

If this strategy and use of Moise Kean starts working can you imagine what our fortunes would be like for the foreseeable future ? Two young players with an understanding and fearsome goal threat. Both with different but absolutely necessary attributes. Aerial ability, good pace and impressive physicality from DCL. Speed, skill, physicality from Moise. DCL's finishing is improving too and I am confident with this type of attacking system Moise will be banging them in too.

Maybe Marco won't try it ever, but to me there is a logic and common sense to pairing them together. It is worth a try if it works , for the upside is massive.

The kid looked very happy when he contributed to Sigurdson's great goal against the hammers only two weeks ago, and can you tell me the last 19 year old who came from a foreign land and set the EPL on fire within weeks?

We all want success, we all want to see great games, but fuck me, (probably Kean's first words when he realised how different this new league is) give him a bit of time to adapt instead of giving the manager loads of stick for not adapting the team around a 19 year old kid.

I watched Lookman play in the CL last week in a free role off the striker. He did okay actually. We have been a complete mess these Moshiri years. We took way too long to replace our ageing backline for a start.

He's played a couple of games up-front and looked off the pace, especially in his EPL starts, then came on against City on the right and looked much brighter, so Silva has used him in this position a few times since.

He's getting some game time and if he was really ready do you really think an under pressure manager wouldn't use him?

I personally think this thread is more about Silva, who started Kean the other night but had the sense to replace him when it wasn't working. Silva hasn't done much right so-far this season, but his half time sub definitely worked the other night!

I haven't had any coffee yet and I've already screwed up when daylight savings is lol, so apologies if I'm being dense.

The expectations I've seen on ToffeeWeb with respect to Kean have been ridiculous. Even before he started a game, many were anticipating him as at least a partial immediate answer to our striker issue, the issue that we never replaced Lukaku. That issue also involves undue pressure and unrealistic expectation on another young striker in a dysfunctional side, Calver-Lewin.

I don't see any mismanagement of Kean, because we've been crap, apart from the West Ham game. If we could perform like that and better regularly, we wouldn't have any issues with the likes of Kean, Davies and Calvert-Lewin, because they'd be parts of well-oiled machines.

We're 10 games in to the season. Let's see if we start gelling as team. Then we'll get a better picture of where and how Kean fits in. Before that, any assessments of the management of Kean as 'mismanagement' are way premature.

Having read all these comments, it seems clear to me that:

- Our system is shit for strikers, we play it wide continually leaving them isolated.

- A manager playing a kid out wide to "earn his trust in a more important position" smacks of SPS, or small penis syndrome.

- Kean has, for me, undoubtedly been terribly mishandled.

- Marco Silva is shite at developing youth and guiding them forward - and I mean terribly, terribly shite. In and out of lineups, play the get dropped, played out of position or "pick a position". Davies, DCL, Kean, Holgate, etc.

- With the above, I think there's a real likelihood Brands, who is a fan of the Dutch model of serious youth development, is not on the same page as Silva.

- We should use the term "winger" as often and as much as possible.

It's clear to me by reading your posts that you have played the game. You have a knowledge of process and how players are judged from day one.

When Lyndon uses the word mismanagement. He is most definitely making the topic at least as much about Silva as it is about Kean.

Some ( like you) will see this as the old softly softly blooding of a youngster. Many others will see it as rank bad management.
Cream invariably rises to the top and if Kean is good enough. he will get there with or without Silva

Personally I think posts like 74 do more harm than good. There is simply no mileage in heaping that sort of expectation on young shoulders. Lets see if he can claim a regular starting place in a mediocre side, before we start expecting him to become a world star.

You tube has an awful lot to answer for

- Marco Silva has a system, and tries to fit players into his system. The inverse approach, one that Marco is incapable of, developing a system and style of play around the players at your disposal, would be highly suggested for Marco to give a try.

He won't. But that's more the reason why we're faltering, rather that being high up the table where we should be after playing a very "easy" schedule to start our season.

Moise Kean, instead of being pushed into a system, is a perfect example of how a manager who would be more flexible and play a game suited to his player's strengths, would flourish.

I blame Marco for a lot, if not all, of our current predicaments that we find ourselves in.

We seem incapable of improving players we just make them worse.

The list is endless from proven players we've ruined to promising players we've ruined.

It's another reason we must get rid of Silva and appoint a Top manager who gets all the basics right.

"You tube has an awful lot to answer for"

I was just rewatching some highlight compilations so when I saw this I really did laugh out loud.

Being selected on Tuesday then subbed out at halftime would hurt any player, never mind a 19-year-old living and working away from home for the first time.

There indeed may be a case to answer that Silva has done him few favours. In the two PL starts he has had - home to Wolves and Sheff Utd - he did play as centre forward.

Whilst his chasing down helped with an assist for Richarlison's opening goal against Wolves, in that game and against the Blades he was up against typical man-eating Orcs at centre back commonplace in the PL.

Kean's strength is running from deep at a retreating defence and arriving late in the box. In those games Everton played the same way as they do when playing Richarlison in that role: lumping high balls up to your #9 and expecting him to tussle for it with the aforementioned Orcs.

Such a tactic does not play to either Richarlison's or Kean's strengths. If we played more ground football, short quick passing with players within 5 meters of our #9 to play give and goes with, you would see more effective players in Richarlison and Kean. But we don't. Indeed, too often this season our #9 has been left in glorious isolation with nobody within 20-30 yards of him.

How many times, for example, have we seen DCL chasing up his own knock ons?

The selection of Kean in the #9 role v the Blades was as poor a decision as Silva has made all season for me, against a team like Sheff Utd and the way they set up.

It was an obvious call to me that it should have been DCL for a number of reasons: a chance to play against his former club; the player with the best skill set in that position against that particular opposition; he had scored in his previous game.

It should not have been a game that Kean started.

Nor do I think it is a legitimate observation that Kean being played wide equates to him being played out of position.

He is NOT playing as an out-and-out wide man. It's more a second striker role. It is a role that should not be beyond him.

We have seen glimpses of his skill sets: his strength on the ball; his ability to run at pace at a defence; less frequently his good close control.

But, it needs repeating: he is just NINETEEN-YEARS-OLD, living and working away from home in a new culture for the first time in his life.

He is not a Wayne Rooney-like wunderkid who was oven ready for the PL at 17.

I for one am not in the least bit surprised he has yet to nail down a regular starting place in the team, least of all a dysfunctional and underperforming one as Everton is this season.

When asked on joining us what his goal target for the season was he modestly replied five. Right now, I would be delighted if he makes even that.

If he hits 5 the way he's currently being handled, I'll walk on water all the way to Brazil and buy you a beer.

To expect a young 19 year old who hadnt played an awful lot of football for his club before coming to Everton, to hit the ground running was bordering on madness. I have seen far more seasoned internationals come from other countries and struggle in their first season in the Premiership. This is a really tough league for a home grown centre forward to play in, and this boy is still learning the language in a completely different environment than he is used too. DCL is a prime example of a young British player trying to learn his craft in this league, and he has struggled to make an impact and he is 2 years older than Kean.

You said above that Kean has never played on the wing in his life. It sounded like you were well informed, and my view was ‘bizarre logic' according to you. Well Silva has just done an interview saying he plays out wide pretty much every time he plays for Italy.

Maybe my ‘bizarre logic' was not so bizarre after all? Maybe it was just a different viewpoint to your own, and that he clearly is capable of playing both positions? Just saying!

FWIW, Ronaldo plays right winger in their 433.

Check his player profile on Transfermarkt, for at least 18/19, he played all but 2 matches (for Italy national) at CF. It's not my opinion, it just is.

I think there's a lot of confusion as to the term "wing" these days. Old school wingers to me run down line then whip in crosses. Kean has never done that. But he has played as one of a front three as the guy who isn't in the middle. Whether we call that a "winger" or a forward? I think it really depends on how the team plays. Leicester use their wider forwards more like wingers, Man City and RS don't. So you're both right, kinda.

Those 3 games on the right read:

v City, subbed in, 16 minutes
v WHU, subbed in, 4 minutes
v Watford, subbed out at half-time, 45 minutes. 65 minutes in total.

The bulk of his time - 8 games, 360 minutes (out of a total 425 minutes playing time) - he has played at centre forward.

Ergo, when he plays, Silva is NOT playing him 'out of position'.

Now if how Silva sets up the team and how he asks Kean to play is likely to get the best out of the young Italian is another debate altogether.

I know we've discussed this before but what I would like to see is simply; Spurs attacking, Pickford gets the ball and immediately throws it over the backline for Kean to run onto. I remember that trick worked well with Lukaku versus Arsenal in the 3-0 win in RMs first season. Kean running reminds me a lot of Lukaku once he gets the momentum going you just know the ball will end up in the back of the net.

Kieran, that would be awesome. Sign me up.

I've wanted Silva out for a while now but l must admit l think l can see a change coming. It didn't happen against Brighton but we weren't so far away. He is only ever a couple losses away from the chop but if we get a run together now we can see where it takes us. He can't be that streaky manager anymore.

Let's just put Kean versus Watford down to a bad game. He is young and it will happen. When he does start however it shouldn't be out wide unless we play 433.

Watching the first half the other night Dave A, Silva could have just as easily brought off Richarlison or DCL, because the front three were not working hard enough, and this is one of the big problems people don't see when they are constantly castigating Sigurdson imo.

I'm not defending Sigurdson, (he's been poor) but I personally don't think our front three work hard enough, (maybe Richarlson does, but usually it's tracking back) and this has been a major problem all season.

How often do our fullbacks get it out wide, and don't have a blue shirt within 30 yards of them, At least 33% of the time if not more?

As regards how players are judged by, ahem (self-proclaimed) "experts" who can tell the minute they pull on their boots (ffs) whether a player will make it or not? Look at Kane, Vardy, Ian Wright... I could go on and on.

How many highly paid "experts" judged these guys wrongly, As I said previously, I am failing to find anything that Silva is doing right at the minute.

Bar maybe Bernard, I cannot name ONE player playing to their best levels in the squad. Anybody passing judgement on this kid already are clowns and have their own agenda which tends to come out in the wash after a couple of posts.

Kean is not the problem – EFC is the problem.

His rigid dogmatic tactics and approach we have so far witnessed does not lend itself to the exuberance and no fear factor of youth.

How many youngsters have we seen on the bench let alone given a decent chance of playing

I almost thought your post was decent until I read the last paragraph.

Since he has been here Silva has shown himself to be one of the most rigid principled not for change managers there has ever been.

I suspect if any player tried to express themselves and go out of his rigid formation and tactics he would be out.

Any player under Silva going out of his way to take matters into his own hands gamble and express himself certainly wouldn't impress this manager.

It also appears to me that Silva wants him to do other things that weaken his game and don't make use of his attributes. I think Silva is one of those managers that if you gave him Messi then he would want him tracking back more to stop a full back.

Get the most out of Kean and Richarlison-play quicker, play the ball behind defenders and let them run and shoot.

Ray (above) "I think Silva is one of those managers that if you gave him Messi then he would want him tracking back more to stop a full back."

Thanks Ray, just spit coffee on my laptop.

I've seen and worked with some stubborn arseholes in my tome and Silva is right up there

It would be great if the top brass actually came out and put him on notice forcing him to become flexible in tactics and selection in order to keep his job. Whilst it appears he has the support of the owner nothing will change

Lets be clear here. People on TW only get an opinion. The don't get to pass judgement on Kean or any other player.

I thought it was a good shout at the time but it didn't work which can happen.

But there's something about all of Brands's business that's just not right. Hardly any of his incoming signings have worked and I strongly suspect Kean will be gone in the next window.

I would not attach any blame to Kean if he fails to deliver this season. Let's face it few of the team are.

Maybe Kean was the wrong choice. We needed a proven striker who could immediately make an impact. We still haven't got one. Brands must take the blame for this and the threat it is causing to our PL survival. As for Silva, he's quite capable of making a pig's ear out of a silk purse.

Juventus had just spent €120m+ on De Ligt & Danilo (De Ligt being a club record for anyone not named Ronaldo), and failed to move any of their other 3 strikers (Dybala, Higuain, Mandzukic), all of whom had been shopped to great extent all summer. As a club, they absolutely had to recoup some of that spending.

Not sure if you remember the stories about their financial issues (still actually ongoing), but Kean was one of their few attractive movable parts. They didn't fight til the end for a buy-back clause because they were looking to fleece anyone, or didn't believe in the kid, that's for certain.

Instead, he went to Frankfurt for €7M. I know he is about 30 but still... with those figures, he was the one to pick.

But, then again, what the fuck do I know? And it does not make no difference because this will maybe be the season when we go down. It has happened to so-called big teams like Sunderland, Newcastle and Aston Villa, so we are in no way immune to that.

But keep your head up! We're only 10 games in and if there's any consolation to be had, the rest of the table is also terrible outside the current top 4!

A timely, incisive, articulte and well observed article.

Kean clearly needs gametime. I think we can all appreciate that potential is a fragile state...Yet "Players need the ball as flowers need the rain" to quote Brian Clough.

As Silva goes into yet another of his "must win games" if he is to stay In his position, he, in my opinion he needs to blood more youth with Moise Kean at the forefront.

He has nothing to lose.

As one of them put it, this goes to show Silva's immaturity and naivety as a manager. Kean wasn't just some random young kid we plucked from obscurity. He came with full international caps and a Serie A winner's medal to his name.

Then we had Silva's mumblings the other day saying that Kean 'always, always' played on the right-wing for Italy. He played as a centre-forward and once played on the left of three strikers.

The consensus appears to be that Silva has no idea how to get the best out of the lad but giving him the odd 10- or 15-minute cameo is never going to bring the goals we want from him, and that he himself wants to score (see his press conference on joining the club).

He needs to be starting games, getting the full experience of the Premier League, and his confidence will grow on the back of that exposure. Watch his games from last season for Juve, Italy and Italy U21s, and you'll see a powerful, confident goal scorer who does his best work in the box, and scored quite a few of his goals from close up inside the 6-yard box. There's no way he's going to be able to do that with the way he's being treated by Silva.

Silva just can't or won't change his rigid formation and, until he does, or until he's sacked, we will continue to struggle and slip further into the relegation mire. Time to act, Mr Moshiri... Should have done it weeks ago!

I get the impression he is one for the future and I hope he's handled right. That doesn't necessarily mean throwing him in st the deep end.

Marco Silva picks the team.

The form of Everton this season has been very poor, and without knowing what goes on at a Finch Farm, may be Marco Silva is trying to etch out results, but the team, generally poses no threat down the middles, and is lacklustre, and we don't shoot enough and don't win games.

There's many valid questions to pose, but30 million is big money but not mega money, but we be played the lady 3 seasons with no potent striker, so we though or we're led to believe a Moise would be moulded into that role.

The lad's confidence must be taking a hit, and I hope there's some wise heads whom are mentoring him but, for me, he needs to start more games or at least come on.

Time will judge, but at the moment it's hard to say, as he's hardly played and is in a squad short of form and confidence.

I hope he's a success at EFC.

I imagine we shall see him go out on loan at Xmas but he should choose his next stop very carefully indeed.

Brian P @127 "He played as a CF and ONCE played on the left of three strikers."

I've literally said this no less than a dozen times, ignored each and every time. Let me you know if you fare any better 😂

I was wondering about this very issue after the Watford game.
Maybe there's no clear cut answer.

As a good example, another 19 year old went the other way this summer. Matthijs de Ligt went to Juve, from Ajax.
He's hardly been pulling up trees, being at fault for several goals. As opposed to last year when he was pretty commanding defensively.
Would you think the Juve fans are thinking they've bought a dud?
The situation will most likely be quite different next season.

As for Moise, coming to a new country, a new league, and then trying to find a way into a disfunctional team. It won't be easy.
The self confidence of scoring a goal would do him a world of good, and for the rest of the team, for that matter.
Football is a funny old game. Having a bit of luck can often make the difference.
That's another thing we've been lacking, cue the VAR moment last week.

Mis-handling is just a wild accusation.

Having seen all his minutes on the pitch, there's nothing to suggest he's ready or has amazing potential. Sure, he will get better, but there's no amazing ball control, fantastic vision, great decision-making. He's just a good young prospect with loads of enthusiasm.

If you think that's a better option than Sigurdsson off the bench (who scored a whopper recently) when defending a lead away, you're deluding yourself! If he was a 19-year-old Rooney, Fowler, Owen or even a Defoe, he'd be playing.

Everything is fashion now. We heard all this about Lookman. Fans crying about him not playing. We just had better options. But fans thought 4 different managers were wrong – even after he had games and was average at best.

Lyndon's line about not having an "identity"... What does that even mean? Shite phrases made popular by Roberto Martinez and Brenda Rodgers to blag the world how clever they were.

Our identity could not have been any clearer. So it just proves you don't know what you're on about. Everything is cliched hyperbole on-trend fashionable terrace shouts rather than reality.

We play out from the back. 4-3-3. We started the season same as the last. Two central midfielders with Sigurdsson (latterly Iwobi) in the No 10 role, two wingers, and a lone centre-forward. We played a high line and pressing game. Zonal marking for set plays.

It could not have been a clearer identity. If Moise Kean could not force his way into the side and make a position his own it's down to him not being ready. Nothing else.

The manager has been desperate for results.

1. Because we are selling club: Gana, Zouma, Rooney, Barkley, Lukaku, Stones, Deulofeu;

2. Because Brands recruited badly;

3. Because of some bad luck with injuries.

If Kean was capable of doing anything to help the team, the manager would have played him. The manager would probably give his left testicle for a 19-year-old Rooney, Fowler or Owen.

And all these 4-4-2 shouts. Boss sides don't leave the midfield empty. You want to play 4-4-2 when we haven't got one centre-forward – never mind 2! Haha!

Aim your anger Moshiri and Brands if you want Everton to be successful.

It's the "players in" column compared to the "players out" column where the troubles lie. Until that is sorted, you will all be going around in circles talking this utter shite, like it will make a blind bit of difference. Round and round in circles... like the last 30 years.

Like a manager can play boss, slick, on-the-floor attacking football and be successful when we are a selling club????

As if a formation change or a 19-year-old kid that a Champions League club didn't want will change things?

By the way, Allardyce is the only manager I've seen start two up front at Anfield... and he also had Rooney in midfield!

Thats down to playing the players in the positions they excel in, not playing them in speculative experiments. Thats down to team selection and team strategy, stuff that up and you stuff up the confidence of the players trying to do things they are not good at.

Play to our strengths, right now I have forgotten where they are!

But with any striker they have to be given the ball in the box, the scoring opportunities are vastly diminished outside the box, so why on earth are Everton so bad at getting the ball in the box? Its like they don't want to take responsibility for a move breaking down.. get the bloody ball in the box.. I lost count how many times we failed to deliver a cross and lost the ball as a result. Its shameful.

I have bad memories of Big Dunc chasing balls on the wing, in fact with all our strikers.. I remember Sir Alf Ramsey coming out to New Zealand many years ago and got hold of a local Tokoroa lad and asked him where he thought he should be playing.. after a number of explanations Sir Alf marched him out to the penalty box and pointed to the penalty spot.. "See that?.. he said.. "Thats where you play.. anywhere within ten yards of that spot" "Thats where you score goals" "Thats your job, stop trying to do everyone else's" "Its everyone else's to give you the ball there"

It was a simple if not naive statement but its intent was clear.. If you don't get the ball in the box you're not going to score.

Both Coleman and Digne have been the main suppliers of crosses, one has been dropped the other has been awful. When he gets it right it works.. Sidibe got into position to cross several times and didn't and we subsequently lost it and where immediately under pressure.

These cute back to goal passes are great if you have the skill of Ronaldo.. but crap if you have the skills of CL.. Play to your strengths Sir Alf said.. lesson learnt, never forgotten.

On a side note I was lucky enough to sit along side Sir Alf at a dinner in the Hyatt in Rotorua and what a gentleman he was, but was a ruthless insight he had too..

I doubt they'd trust such a delicate flower in the hands of another club.

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/moise-keane-apologises-marco-silva-17240928

He needs to earn a place in the team like everyone else.

We love a little 'story' and have become a seriously manufactured outfit.

This weekend the manager has - mis handled someone who it appears hard to handle.
Hes got a thing against young players according to some who forgot he signed Richarlison twice.
He has only chosen Davies through injury but not Holgate.
And he has made us weak at centre half.

I mean, this is some outrageous shit even by our standards. Its ok to not like someone but to make things up to suit an agenda is shameful.

In fairness to Lyndon, I think he tries to write articles that reflect the mood of some fans. There are some people with an agenda against Silva now, and this article probably reflects that. I simply can't agree that Kean has been mishandled, just like yourself probably.

If Kean had been tearing it up when he was on the pitch, I would have agreed fully. But we are all still waiting for him to get going, despite starting up front against Sheffield United, several cameos up front and various starts and cameos on the wing. He is only a kid and has plenty of time yet.

If he had been playing well and was not getting game time, then there would be a case for him being mishandled. As things stand, it looks like his time keeping is certainly in question, and with him falling foul of his international manager as well, maybe the answer lies within Kean, not his managers...

As for Holgate and Davies, they are now taking their chance - this wasn't the case previously under Silva (although they have both had decent spells in the past). Again, I think the answer lies within the players. Life can't always be handed to them on a plate. Getting a few knocks and making them work for their place will only stand them in good stead.

The lad hasn't been good enough so far and needs the time a kid deserves.

What we don't need is some of the pathetic accusations we have seen since last week.

Why no article on Brands mess this summer or whether he has made Silva's job harder? Hasn't that reflected moods moreso than anything?

Nah, lets just look for anything and everything so we don't look daft for praising a joke of a transfer window.

I don't mind holding my hand up when or if I am wrong but it seems forbidden for anyone to do that and its horrible.

How do we move on with no constructive points with evidence.
No need to defend the editor either Danny you should be allowed to make your point without fear of putting the story in your own words.

If this was a reflection on fans feelings the question would be is he good enough yet?

Zouma was not sold, but don't let facts get in the way.

We have spent more than we have sold under Moshiri but don't let facts get in the way.

Richarlison cost £40m - reflecting his value as a first teamer- but don't let facts get in the way.

Silva uses Davies and Holgate and drops Keane and Schneiderlin only after a 4 game losing streak and injury to Mina. Don't let..etc

No, I think the staggering agenda twisting here is by the brigade of lunatics who think this squad is in a league position that is par for its quality. Therefore it is Brands fault.

They also forget that the seeds of the malaise were laid under Koeman and Walsh and a terrible recruitment drive.

They forget that in the real world poor performance on the pitch makes it harder to recruit players off the pitch.

That the DoF had to offload many players from the previous era to make room.

That the current manager has an abysmal record from set pieces stretching back to his Hull and Watford days. That he was sacked from Watford after a terrible losing streak. That he has a dreadful record of turning games around from going behind.

Let us conveniently ignore these facts and

As for Kean? Ok he was late for meetings but does that make him a bad egg? How do you know how many other players have been late?

As for his talent, the lad is a striker not a winger. Believe Souness if you want. I prefer the numerous watchers in Italian football who were astounded Juve sold him and believed FFP played a big part (as well as the racism).

Meanwhile, your darling manager said the following about Kean a short while ago (before the incidents)

-Kean needs “time to adapt” to the Premier League but believes ‘capacity to achieve'

-He is under “zero pressure” to play the big money signing from Juventus

-How Everton are working hard on Kean's first touch and body positions

-Kean's attitude in training is spot-on

So yeah, let's just label people who look at facts as having "an agenda".

I am posing the same questions in the light of Kean's performances thus far. The answer seems to be staring me in the face. I hope I am wrong and I truly hope that the lad makes me eat my words.

Now I don't think Calvert Lewin is worth that yet and Kean very well could be but if Calvert Lewin was worth 30 million now I wouldn't want him gone at all but not at least until we got far more from it.

That is not to say Souness is right either but he is definately right to ask the question and it does raise eyebrows and make people wonder.

Just because we went out and spent it doesn't make it automatically right.

I honestly just think the lad needs to bed in preoperly, realise his potential then crack on.

All this mishandling stuff is beyond a drama.

We are a selling club when we sell our best players every season bar non. That is a fact.

Almost every club spends more than it sells in terms of transfer fees. Let's say we have a positive 100m spend after in and out. Thats 25m a year under moshiri. If its that high?

Everyone praised brands for reducing the wage bill. That is raising funds just as much as selling players is. And its easy by the way. Its not hard to tell a player hes not wanted. And he couldnt the tough ones out anyway. Niasse, Sandra still on books

With turnover trebling since Moyes' days l, our biggest sale is 90m our biggest buy 45m?

Then there is a wage structure moshiri's admitted he wont break it for a top striker.

This is not a defence of Silva its just called being honest. Same as I was for allardyce. If you want judge someone the constraints they work under has ti be considered honestly.

If want to refer you to my earlier post. If MK was the great player some believe or a 19 year old owen, fowler or rooney hed be playing.

If there was a chance he was that good juve would not have sold him.

Should a club like Everton even be relying in two kids up front?

£200m turn over, 18th richest on the planet and sold lukaku.

We will only be able to truely know how good a manager is once the transfer policy is correct and the turmoil of loosing two or three starters every season stops.

Will silva still fail. Possibly. But most people:

"only wanted to see good football. You weren't arsed about the result. I just cant stand another season with fat sam"

Or words to the affect.

To protect brands, MK and moshiri whilst going after managers is not honest behavior or telling the full story. There is far more nuance to the shinanigans at this club. Weve all got facts but they all require fair interpretation.

Something is missing from your argument when everyone has passion and bias towards their favourite individuals or hatred/blame towards people.

I can't say that without it sounding crazy and feeling like some details are missing?

We shouldn't even be talking about the kid hes got years to sort his game out.

Alan its all agendas. Who is screaming for Mourinho while slating Silva at Hull?

Have you seen the giant calls for us to sack Silva now and get Jose in. No. Me neither.

Suggest that and you will be told to be realistic or some other nonsense. Suggest they be realistic about players while we have no chance of Jose and you will still be in the wrong.

Our best performance of the season was the wolves game, with Kean up front. We looked like a team with pace and identity. Silva needs to get the best out of Kean fast because Tosun and Dcl are simply not good enough.

"Exceptional"? Juve sell an Exceptional player to Everton.

One extreme to the next.

He starts right sided for Italy under 21s. Tell us James, what formation did we play in the game Silva treated him so severely?

I assume it was 442 or 451, the formations you play wingers in.
Only it wasn't either was it?

He was supporting from the right, Richarlison from the left and Iwobi behind Calvert Lewin.

Dead simple, he wasn't up to it and that is to be expected. I remember middle aged men screaming at Rooney wasting a shot at 17. Ludicrous.

People watch football for years and don't even know you don't have wingers in a 3.

Discipline indeed! Total hogwash.

Play the kid already! Cenk isn't the future. The only way you get better is to actually play.

Marco's done this with our kids, he's horrible with them. JJK, DCL, Davies (could scream with Tom's treatment, Darren Hind has DCL covered). Mysteriously dropped, not given a chance while those with more experience play shite.

Is the discipline comment in relation to shenanigans OFF the field? If so, someone point me to that thread, please?

I thought Stephen Davies was referring to on-field discipline, I clearly must be wrong, and missed some comment somewhere?

Listening to Darren's take on Silva or any manager for that matter (except Unsworth) will just make you blind enough to forget he has signed Richarlison twice.

Just think for yourself already. It's not Silva's fault you think certain players are better than what they are.

If Silva believes Tosun is better today then Tosun must play. Saying someone is the future is ridiculous. He's only the future when he's good enough to get a game today. He might never be the future because he might never be good enough.

There's nothing anyone has seen in a blue shirt to suggest Silva is wrong? If there is, then point to it. Point to an example of a great piece of skill, a great game, a clever link-up. Tell me an attribute he's used consistently that is far more effective than what the other forwards offer.

None of us know what he's showing in training. If he plays well there or from the bench, he will get his start. Managers don't just hold people back for a laugh. Especially when they are three games or less from the sack.

Plus, what little time he's had, he's been shit. Be honest about it. I like him, he's full of beans and made a big step at a young age moving country. I really like him but, honestly, he looks shit thus far.

You're correct, mate. Silva has signed him twice, he has been rewarded for doing that with a goal-return ratio that many Premier League centre-forwards would be very happy with.

That's why we only paid 㿇M with no buy-back clause.

To try and make a profit we sell for 䀆M and ending up buying five cheaper alternatives that must end up costing the club more in the long run.

Especially after taking wages into account.