The Terrifying Spectre of Moyes

The shortlist of potential candidates to replace Marco Silva is just that — short. Which is why the leap for the media to David Moyes, currently unemployed because of a string of failed or middling managerial spells, has been so easy to make but it would be a hugely retrograde and deeply unpopular step to bring him back, even for just a few months.

Lyndon Lloyd 24/11/2019 477comments  |  Jump to last

If there is one question that has hovered as the backdrop to Everton’s struggles under Marco Silva this season it’s, “If he goes, who replaces him?” In years gone by as Evertonians have pondered the potential suitors to follow first David Moyes then Roberto Martinez and Ronald Koeman, there was always a healthy list of candidates and a handful worth debating as desirable or realistic options for our great club.

This year, the shortlist is just that — short. Very. And if loyalty or the need to give Silva time haven’t been factors (they probably have, but that currency might now be spent), it might explain why the Everton hierarchy haven’t already replaced the Portuguese despite mounting evidence that he is not the man they thought could steer the Toffees to where they want to be.

Former Valencia boss Marcelino, Massimiliano Allegri, Rafael Benitez, Mikel Arteta, Jose Mourinho (before this week) and now, perhaps fancifully, Mauricio Pochettino, have been floated as either available — or potentially so — and approachable but unless you fancied appointing one of the up-and-coming but relatively untried Bundesliga coaches like Marco Rose or Adi Hütter, both of whom no doubt have their eyes on bigger prizes closer to home, there aren’t many more that spring to mind.

It’s why the leap for the media to David Moyes and Mark Hughes, currently employed because of a string of failed or middling managerial spells, has been so easy to make. The mere mention of Hughes in connection with the Goodison Park hotseat feels like a sick joke even given his brief association with Everton under Walter Smith but with Bill Kenwright in the Chairman’s seat, Moyes is disconcertingly believable.

No surprise then that in the wake of the shocking 2-0 home defeat to Norwich the rumour mill began turning, connecting the Scot with a return to Everton. It would be such a Bill thing to do; he who effected the sentiment-fuelled returns to Goodison of Duncan Ferguson and Wayne Rooney. The former might have done enough to justify the move back but the latter’s proved to be the mistake many predicted it would be and he didn’t even see out his two-year deal.

They say never go back. It proved a prescient sentiment for Howard Kendall who twice returned to try and rekindle the magic of his “marriage” only to end up leaving prematurely and there are no guarantees whatsoever that after six years away from Goodison that Moyes would be able to relight a fire that, in truth, he took years to build. In so many ways, the game has moved on in the interim even if Everton have regressed and it would represent a colossal admission of failure on Farhad Moshiri’s part if he were to turn to Moyes after investing so much money in the club and instilling so much hope in Evertonian hearts.

For those who believe that reconnecting Moyes with the club he managed for 11 years would have the desired effect of re-energising Everton and putting them back on the path towards the top six, reappointing the 56-year-old even on an interim basis might make sense. Indeed, the only way seeing Moyes walk back through the gates of Goodison as manager would be remotely palatable to the majority of Blues would be if it came with a cast iron, irrevocable guarantee that it would only be until the end of the season and no more. It would be humiliating, though; could you imagine going to Old Trafford next month with Moyes in the visitors’ dugout; the man about whom we goaded United fans when they came to L4 in 2014 with chants of “Stuck with Moyes, stuck with Moyes…”?

The flaw in that rationale, however, is that Moyes’s record since he was sacked by United (where he was regarded as a failure and something of a joke) is dreadful — 11 wins from 38 league games at Real Sociedad, a paltry six from 38 at Sunderland and just eight from 27 at West Ham. There is nothing in those abbreviated spells to suggest that the Glaswegian has what it takes to resurrect Everton and they make his time at Goodison look like a one-off. As a Blue on Twitter stated yesterday, it’s a record that wouldn’t make you look at him twice were it not for his history with the Toffees.

If all of that weren’t enough, this was a man who deliberately ran down his Everton deal, met with Sir Alex Ferguson at his compatriot's home to negotiate becoming his successor while still contracted to us and then tried to take two of our best players at the time to Manchester by offering us less than the value of just one of them. Clearly Moyes had no qualms about trying to rinse the club where he spent over a decade and any sentiment over his tenure ended for a lot of Evertonians there and then.

Moyes’s time at our club ran its course and it was clear by the end that he had taken Everton as far as he could about three years before he left. It would be a hugely retrograde and deeply unpopular step to bring him back, even for just a few months. If Moshiri, Marcel Brands and the Board are seriously thinking in terms of offering him any sort of deal, it would be tantamount to Allardyce Mk II and would cast the Director of Football in a very poor light indeed. Please, God, it doesn’t come to that.

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Paul Tran
1 Posted 24/11/2019 at 07:20:58
Spot-on, Lyndon. I'll say this till I'm blue in the face. That we're even considering this man to manage our club - in 2019/20 - tells me we're a small-thinking, small-minded club.

No. Please, no.

Paul Kelly
2 Posted 24/11/2019 at 07:21:12
Hear, hear! I'm surprised you wrote that whole article without giving him his TW given name, (good article by the way).

So, without further ado, if that Treacherous Ginger Twat comes anywhere near our beautiful club, I'm done. I'll let my sadistic friend 'sand' my tattoo of my arm!!!!

Got a feeling that will come back to haunt me!!!

Jim Bennings
3 Posted 24/11/2019 at 07:28:17
The appointment of David Moyes would finally prove to me that the Moshiri tenure is rapidly going nowhere.

Now I think Moyes did a steady job under harsh circumstances back in the day, but exactly that, back in the day.

There’s no Tim Cahill, no Mikel Arteta, no Lee Carsley or 24 year old Leighton Baines or Steven Pienaar.

He gets the job then he’s working now with a bunch of players that for me are nowhere near as good as some fans think they are.

Moyes is yesterday’s man I’m
afraid, football has moved on, his stints at West Ham and Sunderland proved that.

This is the man that was manager of a team (Manchester United in 2013) the only time this century that we have won away to a top four/six side.

The appointment of Moyes would simply be Groundhog Day and the Sam Allardyce scenario all over again, yet another panicked shit myself move from Everton’s board and Moshiri.

I honestly think this club is heading only in one direction and that’s down, we can cloud that picture with all these bright shiny ideas of new stadiums and the like but let’s make no mistake, we are a rudderless club and leadership qualities on and off the pitch are nonexistent.

Tony Everan
4 Posted 24/11/2019 at 07:31:23
Not many want Moyes back, me included. Our problem is that Bill Kenwright has got him on speed dial.

Offer Pochettino what he wants, he may say no but the offer has to be put to him privately. He is the best man available and would turn this club around from top to bottom.

Paul Kelly
5 Posted 24/11/2019 at 07:36:06
Jim, even without the appointment of TGT, were heading down anyway, the last three/four appointments just epitomizes the fact that the inmates are truly in charge of the asylum, they ain't got a Scooby doo.

I don't see anything changing any time soon, I hope I'm wrong, we've suffered long enough.

Tony Abrahams
6 Posted 24/11/2019 at 07:38:20
What a thread this is going to turn in Lyndon. I left Goodison yesterday feeling numb, but hopefully the numbness will recede over the next few days, especially if Moyes comes, because I won’t even feel apathetic, about the club I love if this happens.

I’d Honestly sooner go down and start again without “our saviour” which is definitely where this thread is going to go, because you can’t mention David Moyes, without mentioning William Kenwright imo, the men who helped turn an institution into plucky little Everton.

The football yesterday was spineless, destroying the faith of the crowd, but if Moyes comes back to Everton I’d expect a lot of empty seats, even though those seats have already been paid for. Hopefully I’m wrong even if it genuinely won’t matter because I’d be finished with Everton for sure.

Derek Thomas
7 Posted 24/11/2019 at 07:47:12
I'd rather keep Silva than have Moyes, Benitez or Hughes.

Edit; now I see Solari mentioned. Jesus wept.

Edit 2; Bielsa, ffs get him in

Seb Niemand
8 Posted 24/11/2019 at 07:58:23
All well and good, but you aren’t living in the same world as the rest of us. You live in a world where the name Everton is still somehow relevant - which under this clown in charge at the moment we are most certainly not and likely never again can be.

We're not a club that can pick the best anymore, or for whom only the best will do. We are relegation fodder and every minute, literally every minute this idiot remains in charge we become more palatable relegation fodder. We need someone to make the players want to play for the club again and feels ome pride in themselves as men. Our choices, right now (and the choice has to be made *right* now) are Tony Pulis or Moyes. Choose.

Seb Niemand
9 Posted 24/11/2019 at 08:01:20
Paul #1 - you have to cut the cloth you are measured. We are, right now, as we have been beaten by all three promoted clubs, shown as a small-thinking, small-minded club. And that's fine, because we have to think about surviving the division this year. That's the limit of our ambitions.
Joe McMahon
10 Posted 24/11/2019 at 08:02:42
If he comes back and won't watch Everton again until Kenwright is no longer part of Everton. We will be the embarrassment of the premier league. Even the respected Howard Kendall MK III who had previously won large silver things things ended a disaster (near miss),

Moyes record since the 11 years at Everton is a shocker, I know a Sunderland fan and they haven't forgotten what he did, bringing many ex Everton injury prone cast offs, such as Gibson, Anichebie and Rodwell all on high wages, only Oviedo was remotely a sucess.

Look at the appointment Leicester have made and what Spurs have just done, and then look at little Everton in their pitiful world.

Going to Anfield the year they will win the title with Moyes back as manager sends shivers down my spine, and they will let us know the slurs againts Everton will be well and True, NEverton who play at Woodison 25 years etc

Anthony Millington
11 Posted 24/11/2019 at 08:02:54
The problem with bringing Moyes in is that he had some quite solid defensive players previously. If he set up the same way this time round I don't think we have the players to sit back and see out the clean sheets required. Then when we have must win games against poor teams he may be too defensive minded when at least Silva or a Pochettino/ Arteta or whoever else would probably attack teams.

Moyes will add more passion though but that's not hard to show more passion than Silva is it.

Peter Mills
12 Posted 24/11/2019 at 08:02:54
Lyndon - Thanks for writing this.
Danny Baily
13 Posted 24/11/2019 at 08:03:05
Looking like we're in real trouble and it's been coming. We've tried to gloss over it but we've been in danger of relegation in the two previous seasons. Sam saved us two seasons ago then Silva somehow got points at home against utd and Arsenal last time out.

Moyes in and Brands and Silva out would be an improvement. I'd be tempted to poach the Cowley's from Huddersfield Town though. They're winners. It's only what we did with Moyes the first time around and it worked.

Tony Marsh
14 Posted 24/11/2019 at 08:03:26
Moyes will take us down if that fool Kenwright brings the cowardly weasel back. You just know Moyes will look at December's fixtures and say to the fans don't expect too much we never beat these teams. Moyes will then utter the R word like he did at Sunderland and suck out what little life there is left out of the club. Once we are relegated Deadly Dave already has the we were already down card up his sleeve.

It truely will be the end for me as far as football is concerned. I am wavering now. I don't watch much football these days other than Everton. Moyes returning to take us down would send me over the edge.

I can't stand David Moyes the football manager. Moyes I believe stamped his feeble negative mindset right through this club for 11years and we have never been the same since. Just as winning The Champions League/ European Cup is engrained in Liverpool DNA Everton have mediocrity and a losers mindset engrained in thier DNA. Moyes instilled this mindset. Knives to Gun fights and never beating a top side away from home etc.

Why anyone would consider a negative dour fool like Deadly Dave to rescue them I don't know. The White Flag would be waving as soon as he landed here. God help the team across the park next week with Moyes in charge. I can't type any more just thinking about this Moyes scenario is breaking me.

Anthony Millington
15 Posted 24/11/2019 at 08:04:50
Moyes will add more passion though but that's no hard to show more passion than Silva is it..
Ray Roche
16 Posted 24/11/2019 at 08:06:13
I’ve seen more passion and movement in a funeral parlour.
Danny O'Neill
17 Posted 24/11/2019 at 08:08:19
Moyes will be the proverbial backwards step. I'm sure he took his passion with him to Manchester United. Passion alone doesn't win football matches.

As we witnessed in Moyes' last reign. We were a team that generally finished 7th. So no progress then.

Kevin Molloy
18 Posted 24/11/2019 at 08:10:05
Hells Bells.
At the moment, we are going to get relegated. I will repeat that. We are going to get relegated. That would plunge the club into a spiral from which we may never again emerge as a top flight club. Look around, there is nothing about Everton that feels premier league, by rights we probably should be in the league below, with our ramshackle stadium, and poor decision making over the last decade. Now, if we don't get the next appointment right, we are definitely going to get relegated. So, who the hell is out there, who would pretty much guarantee to get us to safety and the summer? Nobody, other than the fat man, and Moyes.
The people who say, I'd rather get relegated, than have Moyes back on a short term contract just astonish me. You would risk the entire club's future to spite a chap who went for the top job in English footy. And dear Lord,Lyndon, did you really write his six months at Sunderland and Sociedad made his 13 years at Everton look like a one off?
All the purists, just suck it up til the Summer, and then we can properly address the situation, and if Moyes does a really good job, then maybe he earns an extension.
Jim Bennings
19 Posted 24/11/2019 at 08:13:16
Danny 13

Moyes has never won anything as a manager, so no 11 years without a trophy, I’m afraid it didn’t work, and by the time he left that fabled old glass ceiling was triple glazed.

As for the Cowley brothers, again, what have they won?

That would be Mike Walker all over again.

Martinez achieved more in one season than Moyes did in 11 years.

21 wins, 72 points, ended that hoodoo away to the top four all in ONE season.

Martinez’s second season was better than Moyes second year (17th place, lowest ever points total).

Martinez, his third season he was justifiably sacked yes but again, under different leadership there were times when Moyes would have been sacked too (the end of 2003/04, the middle of 2005/06).

Moyes steadied the ship over 11 years (which in a decade at one club you should rightly expect?) but then some will say he was lucky to still be here for that long.

It’s all about standards.

Sack Silva, but unless we get this next appointment right then the same manager will be getting the same flack in six months time.

Martin Faulkner
20 Posted 24/11/2019 at 08:15:32
The list isn't that small, as you mention
Jorge Jesus
Rudi Garcia
Even the last 3 would be better than going back for the ginger one
Eddie Dunn
21 Posted 24/11/2019 at 08:23:38
I sincerely hope that the board have more ambition and imagination than to go with the traitor.
On a slightly different note, I don't think we will go down and thought that apart from some schoolboy defending we did create a few chances and the game would have been very different had we equalised. There are plenty of crap sides out there and I notice that at one point yesterday all the away sides were ahead. Saints succumbed in the last minute and Chelsea bucked but it shows that there are plenty of other teams with similar problems.
West Ham, Southampton, Norwich, Waford, Newcastle and Brighton.
I we can't get Poch or Rafa, then Brands needs to come up with a name but if they think we will contemplate the dour one or Hughes then the ground will be empty.
Ken Kneale
22 Posted 24/11/2019 at 08:23:49
Lyndon Well done. Can you please ensure a copy of this article somehow gets to the hierarchy at Goodison by whatever means - this appointment would turn a disaster into catastrophe.
Mike Kehoe
23 Posted 24/11/2019 at 08:31:00
I really struggle to understand all the anti-Moyes rhetoric and find it quite offensive, especially to compare him returning as akin to the appointment of Allardyce. I couldn’t be arsed going over the clubs history but suffice to say I have watched since the seventies through the good times through to this, a succession of hopeless inadequates, Walker, Smith, Koeman and the unholy pairing of Allardyce and Sammy fucking Lee and it should be beneath many TWs to align Moyes with such truly appalling incumbents.
There is a lot of deluded snobbery on here, and a reality check wouldn’t do any harm: we are not a very good team and haven’t been for a while. It hurts to see such shameful pathetic performances, to hold dear ambition only to realise so much precious money has been mishandled on an industrial scale, with the threat of relegation a serious spectre: how many points does even the most optimistic blue think we will pick up before January?
I have said many times that I would welcome a manager who is proven not be a fucking idiot: that’s all. Someone who can see a problem and actually react to it appropriately. So before people start with the wailing and gnashing of teeth, just think of Silva’s confused little face after going a goal behind, the little cogs fizzing into action trying to compute how and why, what to do next: a bit like explaining the merits of socialism to a jack russell. Think of Koeman’s supreme arrogance that was matched only by his ignorance. Think of Roberto’s phenomenal moments after getting beat by anyone that could arrange a defence.
With Moyes we punched above our weight consistently and had the basics to build on: no snake oil just endeavour and determination, characteristics seldom seen of late.
Don’t get me wrong I would probably wet myself if Pochettino was appointed and he is definitely, by a country mile my favourite: but reality suggests it will not be.
The last thing I would be worried about is being mocked by a load of mancs, if we carry on with this prick it will be a while before we see them again.
Frank Sheppard
24 Posted 24/11/2019 at 08:39:03
If the board have not been lining someone up in the last 6 weeks as a successor, then what have they been doing? I would rather have an interim of A.N.Other until the end of the season, than 24 hours more of the buffoon that is Marco.
Tom Bowers
25 Posted 24/11/2019 at 08:39:14
I said some time ago that I hoped the board were surveying their options regarding the Silva position as it was evident the man was not up to snuff.
Regardless of the short tenure he has not shown one iota of prowess of being a worthy Prem. manager and was a mistake right from the time Watford accused them of an illegal approach.
So it has proved the, the man has fallen flat on his face and I may have been forgiven if I thought another manager was already being sought out much like Spurs did with Mourinho.
This once great club has become somewhat of a laughing stock with what they have been doing in recent seasons and this season is proving worse than any other in the last twenty years.
Silva without any real pedigree must have been laughing all the way to the bank when Everton approached him and most of us then hoped a miracle was going to unfold but from the early days of this season we all knew in our hearts it was another bust.
Bill Gienapp
26 Posted 24/11/2019 at 08:40:00
I've said it before and I'll say it again - I have no idea why anyone would assume that Moyes represents a safe pair of hands. He's been uniformly awful since he left (Lyndon laid out the gruesome stats) and the notion that he'd be some sort of notable improvement over Silva is frankly laughable. The guy was hired by Sunderland and glumly announced in August that they were in a relegation battle - *this* is who you want inspiring the troops? I'd be surprised if he could motivate them to leave the dressing room.
Paul Smith
27 Posted 24/11/2019 at 08:43:48
Moyes another relegation candidate. Just no!
Paul Kelly
28 Posted 24/11/2019 at 08:45:02
Kevin Molloy, hells bells mate. Where the fuck did that post come from?

The top half I agree with then you rant on about that TGT and what not.

So you state there is only fat Sam and TGT to go for? Nobody else? Not a fucking nod to anyone but them two. Read post 20, and add anyone who's employed, money talks, alot.

Who's saying we'd rather be relegated than have TGT back? If people are, then bollocks to them, but I don't see it.

Then you have a rant at the OP about TGT's time at Sociedad and Sunderland!!

Lyndon also mentioned his time at West Ham and the Manure, provided enough evidence to his managerial credentials since leaving us, no cherry picking from him, only you.

Give it up lad, he's a busted flush.

Iain Latchford
29 Posted 24/11/2019 at 08:45:34
Massive no for Moyes.

Arsenal and West Ham will also both be looking for a new manager in the new future. It's crucial we act quickly. I can't see Poch coming, but that phone call at least has to be made. What an absolute mess.

Neil Gribbin
30 Posted 24/11/2019 at 08:49:43
I won’t go again if dithering comes back. The final straw. I’ve been embarrassed before as an Evertonian, but yesterday. Unforgivable from manager, bench staff and players playing with no heart.
Ken Kneale
31 Posted 24/11/2019 at 08:51:41
Mike I think you will find that Moyes punched above his weight at Everton. No previous manager would have lasted 11 years without a trophy without the support of Kenwright. He bottled it good and proper in every big game and was content to spin the 'plucky Everton' line with great job security. We treaded water and our other big competitors sailed off into the sunset and comparative football minnows now have a bigger reputation than us. His record since stabbing us in the back is appalling. I for one will never coutenaane his return on either a footballing or character level. Consign him to history - not that he added much to Everton's
Jose Walsh
32 Posted 24/11/2019 at 08:52:47
Thanks for that Lyndon - you have written what we fear may happen. I’ve just been saying to a friend that whilst Silva should have gone weeks ago my gut feeling tells me they will persevere with him because of the high profile protracted courtship, accusations of tapping up, payments to Watford and then firing Allardyce for him. Firing him now is admittance the board got it horribly wrong - and I believe they are that stubborn in the hope he somehow/miraculously turns it around.

If, (God forbid) Hughes and Moyes are the shortlist then it also tells me Kenwright is still pulling the strings - these are his “pals”. It reeks of Messrs Mediocre and Below Par. Silva was Moshiri’s appointment and I can imagine Kenwright saying to him “Leave this one to me had a go at this old boy, but I’ve got much more experience in these things than you have”

All our former managerial appointments have always been from local / low profile teams. Even Koeman was from Southampton and he was probably the most high profile. Think big for once! Have a go - you don’t know until we approach.

If this board and Moshiri has any ounce of ambition to protect his investment he should go all out for Spurs’ former manager but sadly I think he will be waiting for the Real gig.

As a few have said already on this thread - there is not a small list to choose from - it’s Kenwright making this a small list if media reports are to be believed.

Finally; here is a terrifying thought - imagine this is “our year” - the same as it is “their year” - how much would they love it that not only did they win the league but we got relegated in the same season.

The lack of direction, ambition and professionalism from the top down of this club terrifies me. Since Moshiri arrived we have massively paid over the odds for average players who are here for the money. They have a lot to answer for but it’s always a cheaper option to fire the manager. As some have said above we don’t have Cahills or Carsleys now to get us out of this mess.

Some decisive action now is needed but sadly I fear they are stumbling along without and it will be too late.

I couldn’t go yesterday but please tell me someone - what was the mood like at the end of the game? Will the board get the message of how disgruntled the fans are now or were people just leaving early?

Sam Hoare
33 Posted 24/11/2019 at 08:53:47
I was a big fan of Moyes and defended him till the end. We were relegation fodder when he arrived and he gave us some respect even if he never topped it with a trophy. The string of mediocrity we have endured since (despite considerably heavier spending) is a testament to the work he did. He improved us over his tenure, no one has done since.

But I don’t want him back. The game has changed and his work since has reflected that.

The options don’t look that appealing. I’d be looking to the bundesliga and Nagelsmann, Hutter and Rose but I don’t any of those would move mid-season.

If we go for an Interim option then surely Unsworth must be near the top of the list. Or Marcelino could be an interesting option. I’m not convinced by Howe who seems to keep Bournemouth mid-table despite investment and they concede 60 goals a season.

I suspect things may well get a lot worse before they get better.

Kevin Molloy
34 Posted 24/11/2019 at 08:54:40
I think I said, they are the only two who would pretty much guarantee top flight status. You are right, I should have added the words 'who we could realistically get'. Poch was a champions league fihalist six months ago, I think it would raise a few eyebrows if he could be recruited to L4. The others, who knows? the premiership lads would all want a four year contract, and to be bought out of their current jobs. the german managers, sorry but Moyes is a safer bet by far. We aint getting Bielsa, why would he come here if he can get Leeds up? Beinitez, yes if we could get him, terrific, but I don't think we will go for him.

Personally I thought he did an excellent job with the porn barons, and Man U was just a hospital pass, as was Sunderland

Benjamin Dyke
35 Posted 24/11/2019 at 08:58:21
Moyes did enough in his time to deserve to be mentioned but it's a step backwards. But I'd take that step backwards right now as it's a smaller step than the huge one we're currently taking. I'm resigned to the misery being an Everton fan is.
Terry McLavey
36 Posted 24/11/2019 at 09:01:00
I read a really good comment from one of our members a while back, we have sourced managers from, Preston, Wigan and Watford the last one as we all know was sacked from both Hull and Watford. What does that say about our ambition ?

Ferguson didn't get much wrong I hate to say, but recommending Moyes for United was a monumental mistake, and bringing him to Goodison would also be one.

I know people hate Benitez for what he said, but ARE we a "Big" club? Also how many people would have baulked at the Idea of Brenden Rogers coming to us (not the he would) because of his associations and look what he's done ?

I for one want someone to bring back the pride and success to the team I've supported and will continue to support come what may for sixty one years and I'm not the fussy who they are as long as they do it !
Paul Tran
37 Posted 24/11/2019 at 09:06:45
We wont get relegated, regardless of what happens. I can't get backable odds on us staying up, if I could I'd lump on like two years ago.

There's plenty of talent in this squad. It needs a fire under it. Someone who can lift them. Someone who has them playing with pace and belief. Someone who keeps it simple and plays to the squad's strengths.

The two managers at the top of the betting are there Because the bookies' belief is that Everton are at heart a small-minded, maudlin, sentimental, unambitious club.

Let's prove them wrong. We don't need a firefighter. We need a firestarter. The question is, does the club want one?

Jerome Shields
38 Posted 24/11/2019 at 09:12:19
If Moyes is appointed it will prove beyond a shadow of doubt that Moshiri is the Goose with the Golden Egg. If Silva goes, Moshiri needs to make sure he is not the only one, there are others that are more to blame.

Thank You for posting this article Lyndon, you have my 100% support.


Rob Young
39 Posted 24/11/2019 at 09:14:05
Joe 32, there was no one to hurl abuse at after the final whistle as players walked off without even looking at the stands.
Ffing cowards.
Jim Bennings
40 Posted 24/11/2019 at 09:20:25
Might just be me Paul but I genuinely fail to see where this “squad with plenty of talent “ is.

I see a team of overhyped players, youngsters that can’t get a game (for a reason?) we all thought Lookman was the answer (again he’s gone away and achieved what?).

Kean was a Brands signing, clearly he does little in training if he can’t get on that pitch yesterday.

Too many rejects, Walcott finished, Coleman legs have have gone.

Pickford, inflated ego.

Holgate, too physically weak still.

Digne, having a nightmare season, good left foot but can’t defend his own dinner.

Schneiderlin, Delph, both much of a muchness at snail pace.

Sigurdsson, legs have gone.

Davies, tries but has limitations.

Richarlison, our only real attacking threat but too many games he has no impact.

Tosun and DCL, again much of a muchness not going to be good enough going forward.

Bernard when he comes back is our best player for me, the modern day Pienaar.

Gomes, our of things for six months but again, was having a rather poor season himself prior.

Gbamin, who knows?

This squad full of talent looks all rather threadbare to me.

Paul Tran
41 Posted 24/11/2019 at 09:22:26
A better manager who can organise and motivate men will do better with these players, Jim.
Eugene Kearney
42 Posted 24/11/2019 at 09:28:04
I am very glad to have read this article. after a good night's sleep and a bit of a lie-in.

Yesterday I was so down about where this club is at after the millions that have been spent on players over the last few years, I was thinking that Moyes would be the man to steady the ship and get us back up the table.

Lyndon, thanks for this level-headed round-up of certain facts/details that I'd forgotten about.

I'm just numbed by yesterday's defeat (on top of a crap three-month long start to the season) and don't know what to think any more.

Derek Thomas #7 mentions Bielsa - now there's a thought!!

Jim Bennings
43 Posted 24/11/2019 at 09:30:37
Any player that needs motivation to play for Everton shouldn’t be wearing the blue shirt Paul.

Did I see enough players try hard enough to stop Norwich score those two pathetic schoolboy goals yesterday?


Did I see enough players hurt after Norwich score those goals yesterday?


I see a lot of players pull shirts over faces to hide, that’s the common trait of our players and has been now under several managers.

John Audsley
44 Posted 24/11/2019 at 09:32:46
The board will have been thinking about a possible replacement for a number of weeks just in case they need it.

Moyes was scared of big teams and big games, he is the last man I want in charge during December let alone next year.

Fucks sake we can and must do better than a man who did very well with little but pissed whatever "legacy" away with his grovelling to Ferguson and then getting sacked at every club he has been at since in no time.

They should be looking for a top or potential top manager. If they look below that list its Dyche every time.
That bloke will put the fear of god into the shirkers, something Silva simply cant do.

Christian Hill
45 Posted 24/11/2019 at 09:35:50
We need to start approaching available managers now, we won't be the only team searching come Jan. Any of the following guys I'd be reasonably happy with to get us through until the end of the season.

Santiago Solar
Robert Moreno
Massimiliano Allegri
Mauricio Pochettino

I don't think we are that unattractive just yet for one of them not to be interested.

Paul Tran
46 Posted 24/11/2019 at 09:38:04
In isolation, Jim I agree with you.

The reality is, I'm watching a team of players that look over-coached, confused and nervous. The manager is drifting, the club is drifting and the players, many of whom have known nothing here other than chaos and dysfunction, are following suit.

I'm neither justifying nor agreeing with this, it's what I see. I've seen it at the fag end of many managers' reigns, both here and elsewhere.

Whoever we replace Silva with needs to have strength and presence.

Dave Abrahams
47 Posted 24/11/2019 at 09:40:18
Moyes is patently obvious, to most of us, just not good enough to manage us. I will not watch Everton if he comes back, the thought of him back sickens me.
Paul Kelly
48 Posted 24/11/2019 at 09:44:08
Kev, I agree with safe bets, Fat Sam would be the epitome of the situation, but I don't see it with the dour TGT.

He done well for us, steadied the ship and I will say this as much as I hate the ####; in the first few months of his last season with us (when he was in the shop window trying to impress whiskey nose) we played the best football I've seen since the 80's (maybe 95), pass, move, triangles, it was fucking sublime, we just didn't have a finisher, I remember us having 20plus shots on target (possibly drunk) at one stage, results were roughly the same but we played togger!!! And it stopped as quickly as it started, he reverted to type (he got the manure job) and that is his downfall.

He set a foundation at Everton and built upon it, he won't have that luxury as a stop gap. Plus he had players with a different mindset (so to speak) and unity within the squad. Yes, he faced the same situation when he come to us, but his record after leaving us tells me we were the exception not the rule.

Steve Brown
49 Posted 24/11/2019 at 09:52:34
Moyes and his ideas belong in the past, alongside Benitez, Pulis, Pardew, Sherwood, Allardyce and the other dinosaurs. I watched one of his "coaching" videos on YouTube and it struck me how dated his insights were. So limiting and demonstrated as obsolete by his appalling record at Man U, Sociedad, Sunderland and West Ham.

If we aren't going to try to attract a top manager - Marcelino, Allegri, Pochettino, Nagelsmann - then we might as well stagger on with whoever. Let's recruit Howe or Dyche because any old shite will do.

Alasdair Jones
50 Posted 24/11/2019 at 09:53:29
I can't believe the timing of my article "Patience ?" There comes a time however when it is no longer a virtue and that point has I believe now been reached. I had not anticipated such a dire performance and abject team selection.

Lyndon you are right; the shortlist is just that and for that reason it's more than likely that the board will turn to David Moyes since the team and its attitude requires that some grit be instilled into their play. It's worth bearing in mind that such an approach was characteristic of the way Sheffield United started their season as newcomers. That approach has served them well, not that it looks other than what it is at times.

No other approach can be taken if the threat of relegation is to be eradicated.

I agree with so many others though. All this cannot only be Marco Silvas doing.

Ian Riley
51 Posted 24/11/2019 at 09:54:27
I agree that David Moyes should not come back but I'm not going to rubbish him for going to Manchester United. He had eleven years at Everton and at times over achieved with the transfer funds available. Actually if anything we played some of our best football at times with a defence that was disciplined and well drilled. If the greatest manager calls you to take over from you at the biggest club in the league and world, can you say no? It's a once in a lifetime opportunity.

How much have we spent since Moyes has gone? Three to four hundred million. Manager after manager, paying them off. Great if can get it. The choice of managers we have chosen have been average at best. Manchester city got it right, top manager with great players. We don't have either. They are prepared to pay big money for their manager.

Going forward I see nothing changing. I say to my friends "as long as we don't get relagated, I am happy." It's the hope that's killing Everton fans. The list of managers fans write is great but really is it hope over reality? Has the board got the balls to get a manager who has won trophies?

My thought is if Silva doesn't go by our next game leave him to it. Lets just give him the opportunity to turn it around and if he relagated us well we didn't bring Moyes or big sam back. We stuck by our principals. We have lost our way on the stadium over the present situation. The team is average even if we had a super star manager and mid table at best. Have we a further hundred million to spend on players? That's the board's dilemma. Top manager wants his players!

I will finish with one question. Has the club progressed since Moyes left?

Les Moorcroft
52 Posted 24/11/2019 at 09:57:10
Keep dithering Dave away... and high ho silva away.
Karl Meighan
53 Posted 24/11/2019 at 09:58:03
This squad is very overrated, proven by the managers most of them have had sacked through there shit performances. Simple passes are overhit by yards and basic control seems above most of them. The results and performances against Sheff U and yesterday Norwich both at home are not that of a good squad. One poor performance can be put down to a bad day, this squad does poor and shit regular. The likes of Pochetino and Wenger are available if you don't approach them or there agents you wont get them. Both have worked under restrictions in the past and my fear is Brands who should also go would love Silva to stay and has a big a say in whoever may come through the door.

Brands proven record from Holland what bollocks, PSV will be up there regardless of who is in charge and Alkmaar will have a good season once in a while.

John Kavanagh
54 Posted 24/11/2019 at 10:00:11
Moshiri has been taken to the cleaners by Kenwright and co. He must be incredibly naive and even more poorly advised. I originally thought that the Board floating Moyes and Hughes was some form of psychological ploy to frighten fans into giving Silva more undeserved time - but God forbid they are serious.

I remember years ago the laughter when Sunderland appointed Howard Wilkinson. Moyes or Hughes would make us an even bigger laughing stock. Sunderland made bizarre managerial appointments and threw away their money on incredibly bad signings. We are following exactly the same trajectory and will end up in the same state.

Kenwright should have been relegated to cardboard cut out status in the stands years ago, but is now wrecking our club and is setting us on a path to oblivion with his good old boy appointments and signings. I'm afraid that showing any last traces of goodwill towards him in our fanbase will hasten our demise. The appointment of Moyes to repeat his feat at Sunderland will only confirm our worst fears. Kenwright's presence is poisonous to our club.

Unless Moshiri can somehow oust Kenwright immediately and get a professional adviser in to help him make a proper managerial appointment our downward spiral will accelerate. If Brands genuinely believes that Moyes or Hughes is the answer then he's as guilty as the other muppets on the Board and should go too.

Colin Glassar
55 Posted 24/11/2019 at 10:00:39
Moyes comes, many will leave - for good!

This has been BK’s dream all along. Get a rich fool he can manipulate and get his beloved David back in the driving seat. This way both can milk the gullible owner out of a few more million before he gets tired of being taken to the cleaners and returns home to Monaco.

Everton have become such a small, insignificant club that if Silva is sacked tonight it probably wouldn’t make tomorrow’s back pages.

Gary Willock
56 Posted 24/11/2019 at 10:02:51
Under this clown we are going down. It really is glaringly obvious. The slow “u-shape” football is so easily countered it’s unreal. Norwich manager played a simple “spoil it, slow it, every so often have a go quickly and eventually they’ll be so slow they won’t catch you”.

Silva CANNOT adapt. When he does it’s panic decisions that often make it worse. I mean, come on ffs, his record of coming from behind is clear to see!

I want Guardiola. I want Simone. I want Potch. but I’ll settle for just about anyone who is available right now. I’d much rather it not be Moyes, but if that’s all there is then give it a go till the end of the year, because the only other option is being the next Villa (and hopefully not the next Leeds) with this inept tit.

Michael Hughes
(South Wales)

57 Posted 24/11/2019 at 10:04:00
It’s not often I feel the need to comment, mainly because you guys have already debated the issue from every angle. I logged on this morning expecting (hoping) to see we are searching for a new manager – it’s not nice to see anyone lose their job, but after yesterdays disgraceful shambles I don’t see any alternative. Like a lot of Blues, I currently feel drained, empty, and just when you think things can't get any worse, I see all the Moyesexuals are out in force to support his return! and then, Mike Kehoe (23) accusing those who are against his return of “deluded snobbery”! Mike, I am against his return because of principle, the guy shit on our doorstep, not once but twice, read the article, it’s all there. The only way Moyes should be let back in Goodison is through the turnstyle.
Pat Kelly
58 Posted 24/11/2019 at 10:12:57
We need a strong confident manager to take control and give the players direction and a kick up the arse. Silva was never a strong manager. The players certainly never feared him. He looks defeated before the game starts and once we go behind it's all over.

No one takes responsibility. The players see a defeated manager and give up. There are no repercussions for surrendering. Defeatism pervades the Club. Give us a manager who believes in himself and the players will respond. Someone who has won something and knows he can do it again. Not someone who has never succeeded and brings no expectations other than more failure.

James Stewart
59 Posted 24/11/2019 at 10:13:04
The spectre of Mark Hughes is the most terrifying of all. Count me out if that happens.
Paul Jeronovich
60 Posted 24/11/2019 at 10:13:59
Rather have Moyes than the current manager. Even Just to restore some pride to the shirt. This really is a depressing, embarrassing shit show at the moment.
Derek Knox
61 Posted 24/11/2019 at 10:14:26
Just checking in to see if he's still here, if so why?

I can't believe after so many extensions to his inevitable departure that the Board haven't at least come out with some sort of statement, but then again I almost forgot, we the fans, the life blood of Everton, don't really matter to them.

It is patently obvious that the fans don't really want Moyes back, even on a temporary basis, and possibly lesser so Mark Hughes, yet the bookies, who generally are right, have them as favourites.

I can only assume, having more faith in Brands than most on here, and the preceding history of Silva's tenure, that he has indeed identified a successor. If not, why not?

I would have grossly over-estimated the acumen of him. I must also hasten to add, that successor does not include either of the two previously mentioned.

There has been some mention of him being given another week, which beggars belief in my book, is he suddenly going to start picking the right combination of players, employing different tactics and substitutions?

It's only Leicester away after all, who are on fire at the moment, second in the Table as it stands, what could be easier?

Trevor Peers
62 Posted 24/11/2019 at 10:21:26
Sadly for all those contemplating boycotting the blues if Moyes gets the nod, I have every sympathy, I counted myself out of going to Everton when Silva got the job, he's my nightmare manager weak as piss and always likely to take us in a relegation scrap.
I advise anyone who values thier mental health to keep away from Goodison until he has been removed.
Gary Willock
63 Posted 24/11/2019 at 10:37:59
I appreciate and respect people’s views, but the day I boycott my club is the day hell freezes over. I’m pissed off, angry, depressed, want changes and will make my voice heard, but this is my club and it always will be.
Jim Harrison
64 Posted 24/11/2019 at 10:40:12
Haha. Whilst I don’t want Moyes back, still can’t fathom the Arteta link. He has never managed a club. He is Peps assistant. And even then only a couple of years. To me it Represents as big a Gamble as taking on Moyes
Dennis Stevens
65 Posted 24/11/2019 at 10:43:43
Surely the job of assembling the short list of candidates, if not actually selecting the new appointee, falls to Brands as DOF. If he has the likes of Hughes & Moyes on his list he should be dismissed & if the rest of the Board over-rule him to include candidates of their ilk for consideration he should quit. I would expect him to have his list ready & waiting for the Board to review & act upon. For once, action should be decisive & swift - I won't hold my breath!
Mike Kehoe
66 Posted 24/11/2019 at 10:49:06
Michael Hughes, Moyesexual: Really? I get a fed up listening to people slagging a manager off that established stability and no small measure of progress on a tight budget and ridicule him because they remember us being quality in the did and distant: I’m talking of respect and credit where it’s due not wanting to fondle his ginger plums: maybe you are protesting a bit too much? Maybe snobbery isn’t the best term to use, maybe better for some to familiarise themselves with the painful truth that the club in a serious position, again, and a manager with proven acumen is needed right now.
As I said, I would be delighted and astonished to land Pochettino but I can’t see it coming off.
Dave Williams
67 Posted 24/11/2019 at 10:54:27
We really are in one hell of a mess. Silva has shown yet again that he cannot motivate this squad, he mirrors Keegan in his England manager days in being unable to change tactics during a game and he persists in picking Morgan and Siggy despite the overwhelming evidence that they slow the whole team down which makes us easy to play against. Add in his reluctance to try younger players and I really fail to see what anyone ever saw in him to make them think he was a good manager. I cannot understand his interviews due to his poor English so whether the players can understand his coaching or just nod their heads without taking stuff in who knows?
I worry even more if the rumour about giving him one more game are true. Leicester away would be very difficult at the best of times- sack him after a bad performance there and we have the Derby a few days later with no manager!! I am sick to the back teeth of being embarrassed at RS and the thought of going there a few days after sacking Silva is terrifying.
Moshiri will be all over this now as it is his money on the table. He won’t want to admit he was wrong after the way he pursued Silva but even less will he want to risk losing premier league status which, make no mistake is a real concern when you look at who we have lost to and the games coming up.
Moyes is a natural reaction albeit I don’t think anyone connected with the club has mentioned him. He would put a lot of passion into the job and certainly he used to have great organisational skills but sometimes an appointment is just too controversial and after his very ill advised comments on leaving us and his efforts to rip us off over Fellaini and Baines I fear that our problems would intensify if he was appointed at a time when we need to settle things down, get the fan base on side and instil some confidence back into the squad.
It is not the time for a foreign manager with no experience of the league. We need someone who can hit the ground running, who will have his own training routines established and ready to roll out and will have knowledge of the teams coming up and how we need to approach them. There is no time to get used to the English game and we need an immediate injection of passion, guts and desire from someone who will not be scared to eject our more mature players who are slowing the rest of the team down. I’m not advocating a wholesale turning to youth but the likes of Gordon, Gibson and Baningime need to be looked at seriously with a view to giving them some game time.
So who do we go to? Arteta was my preference after Sam was fired and still is. He is intelligent, has learned from the best,knows how the game should be played and has worked at City using a style of quick movement.
Dyche has a lot to offer and as someone else said above he would put the fear of god into anyone who failed to put in the effort. Poch would be great but we have to face facts- we are no longer a big club but one of the sleeping giants like Leeds,Villa etc- and I don’t see us being attractive to the big name managers. Rafa- a good manager but he’d be a huge risk and would be another hefty pay-off if he failed.
Mikel or Dyche for me but no Moyes.
Paul Burns
68 Posted 24/11/2019 at 10:56:18
Absolutely spot on. The fact that Moyes would even be considered is a symptom of the amateur way our club is being run in to the ground.

I don't hold out any hope of a better appointment no matter what. A regime that would even consider that Silva was the man for Everton given his appalling credentials, or lack of them, fills me with dread.

I want Silva gone but am terrified of what is coming next, such is the state of those tasked with replacing him. Close your eyes and pray.

Andrew Clare
69 Posted 24/11/2019 at 11:14:06
The reason we are at this point is because we were happy having a manager of Moyes calibre for ELEVEN years.
Don Alexander
70 Posted 24/11/2019 at 11:16:31
Moyes? As if! That'd be like Spuds re-appointing Martin Jol rather than Mourinho. Professional clubs simply don't do that do they Farhad?


Dave McDowell
71 Posted 24/11/2019 at 11:22:20
Something like:

Brands: That level of performance is totally unacceptable, time for Silva to go.

Bill: Steady on there Marcel, lets not be too hasty.

Moshiri: I agree with Bill, it was poor but once we get Jimmy Mc back in midfield things will turn around.

Brands: I accept I screwed up in the CB department but it's no excuse for picking a team that is slower than me arl fella when I say "it's your round".

Bill: Having said that Marcel, thinking about it I do have a guy who can come in and steady the ship. Big club experience, Top 4 actually (before he got there).

Brands: Yes Bill I like Pochettino as well.

Bill: Whoa, Marcel I don't think we need another foreigner, I mean Brexit an all. I have a guy who knows the club inside & out, in fact he gave us the best bit of marketing that excused away all expectations and justified our piss poor footballing performances.

Brands: Bill, I'm lost we are a football club, success is our ambition?

Bill: No Marcel, we are the "Peoples Club"

Denise: Bill, genius, visionary, I'm on the case, I will think of more people.

Moshiri: Brilliant Bill, we can bring back the glory days. Let's appoint him tomorrow.

Bill: Whoa Farhad, sweetie, luvie, calm down. Look at our next few fixtures, my guy never won at any of the "Big 4" grounds and Leicester are also now top 4. So we keep schtum, full confidence blah blah blah, take the almighty shafting coming our way and then we unveil our Davie, our Moysiah.
The fans will be so desperate at that point that Davie will be welcomed like the returning prodigal son.

Brands: Not sure Bill, thought we'd moved on, 5 year plan we discussed, young exciting coach or proven winners.

Bill: Marcel, we can bring in a young coach alongside him, someone like Phil Neville or maybe his brother.Anyway they are small details, it's all about survival now sweetie.
Farhad, you on board darling?

Moshiri: To be honest Bill I thought spending upwards of 500 million would have sorted the job but if you think going retro is the way, I'm Spartacus.

Bill: Denise, can you get the planning application press release primed also I think it's Pickford's turn to give the Monday, we need to work harder speech.
Marcel we do need more English speaking players to vary this uplifting speech, the fans so look forward to it.

So we are all agreed, Davie is our man, lets get back to the good old days, knife to a gunfight, punching above our weight, should be happy with out lot spirit, that we've been missing.

Nil Satis Nisi Optimum and all that jazz.

Ryan Holroyd
72 Posted 24/11/2019 at 11:24:46
Moyes wouldn't get Everton relegated.. This clown Silva will.
Brian Harrison
73 Posted 24/11/2019 at 11:25:43
Amazing how this club always manages to embarrass its fans season after season after season. We have now lost to all 3 promoted clubs from last season, which tells me if heaven forbid we got relegated we would struggle in the Championship. I really hoped Silva would be successful, but that isn't the case and its now a case of when rather than if he will be sacked.

Which then leaves us with this idiot Moshiri to pick yet another loser, to go with his 3 previous picks which all failed. When he sacks Silva he also needs to get rid of Brands another waste of space like his predecessor Walsh. I don't know what persuaded Moshiri to go down the DOF route which I have yet to see work in this country. Let the baker of the cake buy the ingredients, rather than this nonsense we have now with different people other than the manager buying players.

As who replaces Silva, well the one thing you can be absolutely sure of is it wont be Pochettino or anybody of his quality. As when we were in trouble under Koeman Moshiri sacked him and despite the protests hired that well know fire fighter Sam Allardyce, who to be fair got us to our customary 8th place. Moshiri then decided it was time to move on from the negative football we played under Allardyce and persued Marco Silva. Silva himself had in this country only did a similar fire fighting job to Allardyce, maybe his style was a lot more attractive but the overall picture was relegated with Hull and having Watford mid table. So lets stop kidding ourselves about the quality of manager we are likely to get to replace Silva. Judging on Moshiris past choices it will either be another firefighter or we will take a punt on an up and coming manager. For those touting Benitez it might be worth reminding everybody that Steve Bruce has got Newcastle higher in the Premier league than Benitez ever did. Me personally he would be the last person I would approach after his small club comments about us. For those willing to overluck that statement well how low must our self esteem fallen that he would even be considered.

I always say as player or manager never go back into the same role, but I would imagine Moyes will be under consideration. Ferguson and Unsworth both played under him and if he is chosen then I guess both of these will be the main part of his coaching set up. I would accept Moyes to come back till the end of the season. But the long term replacement only 1 candidate for me Wayne Rooney, won everything there is to win in football, also leading goalscorer for England and played under some of the best managers in World football. I am sure that if Lampard after 1 season in charge of Derby and Gerrard having no managerial job before taking on Rangers can do well in management then for me Rooney has a better footballing brain than either of those.

John G Davies
74 Posted 24/11/2019 at 11:36:08
Along with Dave and Tony Abrahams, Moyes return would see me finished with the club.
Mike Doyle
75 Posted 24/11/2019 at 11:51:29
So what will the next big statement from the club be about.

1] another EiTC initiative ?

2] BMD ?

3] Another contract for Jose Baxter ?

4] U23 squad to have another sleep out to raise funds for (insert name of worthy cause) as they wait for the January loan window to open?

Meanwhile on the other side of Stanley Park they, rather boringly, seem content to sign top players (at sensible prices) while competing for/winning trophies.

Love hear Little Miss Dynamite’s thoughts on this. or any football matter.

David Stranack
76 Posted 24/11/2019 at 11:51:33

Caps Lock Off & so am I (lots of others) if that ginger rat returns to Everton F.C.


Brent Stephens
77 Posted 24/11/2019 at 11:57:03
Apart from an unsurprising lack of chances upfront, this was a shocking defensive performance by our CBs. Against the bottom club, that hadn't scored an away goal for most of the season. We just seem to be able to serve up a rotten dish from every part of the team. Ultimately the chef's fault. His backers have finally fallen away. But god knows who is available AND would want to manage us. Whoever is approached won't give a toss about our 'istory. That's in the distant past. The here and now is that nobody, apart from us fans, sees us as a big club. I'm really despondent about the future as I can't see us attracting anybody but a journeyman manager.

Leicester next. That'll be a great day out!

Paul Smith
78 Posted 24/11/2019 at 12:06:32
The more I google Everton news the more Moyes gets mentioned. I need to knock it on the head it's not good for my emotional wellbeing.

I think it might happen.

Jim Bailey
79 Posted 24/11/2019 at 12:10:40
Better the terrifying prospect of Moyes than the terrifying prospect of seeing us in the bottom three come the end of the season
Colette Black
80 Posted 24/11/2019 at 12:16:42
Moyes? Tell me this can't be true. I thought we'd reached the abyss with Allardyce. This must be the ninth circle of hell.

Jim @ 79 What about being in the bottom 3 with Moyes in charge?

Amit Vithlani
81 Posted 24/11/2019 at 12:19:14
Benitez is a more palatable option than Moyes & that is saying something - as I cannot stand the bloke.

Choosing the lesser evils, Moyes is more preferable than Silva and Benitez preferable to Moyes.

Personally I would rank Unsy ahead of Benitez on an interim basis. Again, pretty sure he would not be popular either so we really have poor choices available to us, thanks to a truly horrific and speedy unravelling under Silva.

Poch is not a realistic option. I don't think a realistic but unknown figure like Marcelino would get everyone onside, meaning he will be under pressure too if results don't improve.

The only one that fits both categories (realistic & palatable) is Arteta. Crucially, I think the fans would be patient with him as it's his first coaching stint & he comes with a glowing reputation as coach & ofcourse player.

He would also be the focal point of our club. Surely that is the key now. Silva, Martinez, Koeman and Allardyce were "meh" appointments given short shrift once we went on a downward spiral.

Amit Vithlani
82 Posted 24/11/2019 at 12:19:15
Benitez is a more palatable option than Moyes & that is saying something - as I cannot stand the bloke.

Choosing the lesser evils, Moyes is more preferable than Silva and Benitez preferable to Moyes.

Personally I would rank Unsy ahead of Benitez on an interim basis. Again, pretty sure he would not be popular either so we really have poor choices available to us, thanks to a truly horrific and speedy unravelling under Silva.

Poch is not a realistic option. I don't think a realistic but unknown figure like Marcelino would get everyone onside, meaning he will be under pressure too if results don't improve.

The only one that fits both categories (realistic & palatable) is Arteta. Crucially, I think the fans would be patient with him as it's his first coaching stint & he comes with a glowing reputation as coach & ofcourse player.

He would also be the focal point of our club. Surely that is the key now. Silva, Martinez, Koeman and Allardyce were "meh" appointments given short shrift once we went on a downward spiral.

Raymond Harwood
83 Posted 24/11/2019 at 12:22:17
Anybody who sees David Moyes coming back as a retrograde step is just lacking in the old grey matter. The fact that he was with us in the past does not make it a backwards step, that is simpleminded. It is beyond small thinking to think that, in fact it is not thinking at all! David Moyes produced great results on a shoe string before, think what he would achieve now. I hope our neanderthal boo-ers don't stop him getting in, or get him thrown out. The only thing they are any good at is getting to go backwards, but they don't even have the nerve to admit it when they do! Many of them wanted Marco Silva in, and look at the job he is doing! Keep quiet and allow us to go forward!
Brian Harrison
84 Posted 24/11/2019 at 12:30:42
Alan Myers has just been on SSN from Goodison saying that for the moment it seems the board are happy for Silva to carry on, although he did add that Moshiri keeps his own council so its very hard to predict what he will do.

I suspect that Sacking Silva before 2 tough away games to Leicester and Liverpool, Moshiri might have thought it wouldn't be a good start for a new manager. So I suspect if we change it will be after the Derby game, by then we may well be in the bottom 3 so Moshiri would have no choice.

Christy Ring
85 Posted 24/11/2019 at 12:31:58
Great article Lyndon, in my opinion the board are spineless, how can they back Silva, it's not just yesterday's performance, we've been shocking since the off. Moshiri should sack the full coaching staff, and even to suggest Moyes, which has Kenwright written all over it, would put us back years, and Bill should be told to go as well, we're in this position, because of him and his cronies, who wouldn't spend a penny during there tendure.
Danny O'Neill
86 Posted 24/11/2019 at 12:42:22
Valid point Brian, but the counter argument is to leave this any longer, we lose those matches anyway.

In November 1994 we sacked our manager and appointed a new one. We were in an even worse position than we are now; by far.

The new manager's first game was Liverpool at home. An team that had mustered a mere 4 points won 1 - 0. We also won our last piece of silverware to date that season.

Sometimes a change has an immediate effect that in addition to stopping the rot, puts belief & faith back into both players & supporters.

When its time to go, its time to go, regardless of who we're playing next in my opinion.

Ryan Holroyd
87 Posted 24/11/2019 at 12:44:51
Personally I'd give silva until the end of December and see where we are. We do play better against the better sides as they give us more space.
Jim Bailey
88 Posted 24/11/2019 at 12:45:20
If as it appears to be the general consensus of opinion that Silva is unable to man manage/motivate a reasonably talented squad,and if as most are saying that a "name" would not want to come to us,then he seems to me to be the safest bet to put some fight back in to the players.
Whether or not they respond to someone like him is open to question. So for me Silva out,Moyes in for the season.
We need a change because it's obvious the players confidence is shot,their mind set needs changing.
If we go down with Moyes then we go down with him.
No one is guaranteed to keep us up.
Rob Halligan
89 Posted 24/11/2019 at 12:47:39
Danny, was it only four points after fourteen games before walker was sacked back in 1994? Wow, I give Walker great credit last night then, as I told someone we had eight points before he was sacked!!
Paul Smith
90 Posted 24/11/2019 at 12:47:39
It goes like this, 2 narrow defeats to Leicester and the RS will see him stay.
To be honest I hope he does if ot means keeping Moyes & Hughes out of our club.
Derek Knox
91 Posted 24/11/2019 at 12:48:36
Brian @ 73, picking up on your article, you make a very valid point regarding a second tenure being unsuccessful, whether it be either as a player, or in this case a Manager.

I can't recall it ever working in the past, Howard Kendall, probably the best we have ever had, was a shadow of his former self as Mk2, and verging on an embarrassment as Mk3.

I am sure some statto will come on and dispute this with figures to prove my/our theory is bunk. It would be very interesting if someone can suggest a case where either a player or Manager has returned and improved on previous performances!

Phil Parker
92 Posted 24/11/2019 at 12:57:06
Benitez made a small club comment about us in temper, immediately after a derby when he was annoyed we had got a draw. Moyes left us, then came back for our 2 best players with insultingly low bids, er, because he thought we are a small club and should let our players better themselves actions speak louder than words.
Danny O'Neill
93 Posted 24/11/2019 at 12:58:21
So now you made me go and google it Rob!! Never trust an ageing memory!!! Found this in an Echo article from (funnily enough) this time last year. I suppose the accuracy depends on whether he was sacked after 12 or 14 games. That I don't know, and confess, I haven't looked up. Either way, we were woeful. Heres the extract:

"Only two sides have ever had fewer points after their opening 12 Premier League games to a season than Fulham's tally of five this campaign - that was QPR, with four points in 2012-13 - unsurprisingly they finished bottom. And Everton who had four points in 1994-95.

But Everton didn't just survive. They played a brand of football which also saw them secure the last piece of silverware to grace Goodison Park.

It was a remarkable revival.

After 12 matches, under the well-meaning but naive leadership of Mike Walker, Everton were rock bottom. They were three points behind Ipswich Town and five points behind Leicester City - who both went down."

Sean Patton
94 Posted 24/11/2019 at 13:00:31
To those wanting Moyes back to borrow a phrase from his supporters on here at the time

Be careful what you wish for.

Danny Baily
95 Posted 24/11/2019 at 13:01:56
No more time for Silva, he's had enough and so have we.

Mentioned it earlier but we should go for Rafa or the Cowley's. Established name or prospects, both winners. But Moyes would be an improvement on Silva.

Daniel A Johnson
96 Posted 24/11/2019 at 13:03:32
As much as I don’t want Moyes you can’t whitewash his achievements out of existence.

He built a solid hard working squad that at times was a decent striker away from seriously competing.

He took us out of the relegation fight and placed us behind the top 4 on a regular basis.

We got to FA cup finals, broke the top 4 and regularly qualified for the Europa league. All on a shoestring budget.

I’m not a Moyes apologist but for fucks sake it’s all the above that got him the biggest job in the premiership and manager of the year awards.

I don’t want him back but I don’t get the bitterness I seriously don’t. If the current manager was anywhere near achieving the above we’d be happy right now. Outside of one season of Martinez where Lukaku was placed into Moyes foundations we’ve slowly regressed ever since.

Kevin Hudson
97 Posted 24/11/2019 at 13:08:37
Our club prodigiously puts out so much touchy-feely social media content/ crap - that in the process it forgot it’s basic mandate is to actually field a credible football team.

Eddie Howe please. Three & a half-year contract would do me, although I do have misgivings about his defensive & away record, but give him scope to build..

Pochettino would laugh us out of the room. He looks jaded to me anyway.

Dyche: Great bloke but probably way too defensive.

Hughes/ Moyes: Just shoot me.

Arteta: Why??

Danny O'Neill
98 Posted 24/11/2019 at 13:14:05
My take on Moyes.

We absolutely should not even be entertaining the prospect. He has failed miserably since leaving Everton on multiple occasions in varying scenarios. In honesty, he'd never have lasted 11 years at any other club.

I'm not a Moyes hater. I appreciated what he done for us at the time. In his early years it is what was needed and I was a massive supporter bordering on protector, often arguing with many on this forum who suggested otherwise.

I would say his last 3 or 4 years however are where I turned and realised he was not going to take us further. He didn't have (doesn't have) the skill, ability or desire. He isn't a winner. He likes being the underdog when there isn't an expectation to win. The absolute turning point was the semi-final against Liverpool. 1-0 up at half time and totally dominating what was then the most average Liverpool team of my lifetime and our Davey goes for safety (KITANO) in the 2nd half rather than the jugular. We sit back to protect the slender lead and the inevitable happens. Blame Distin - I blame the tactics.

I would suggest that's why generally, we seemingly went through an endless vicious cycle of high expectation given a strong finish to the previous season; dreadful start; expectation diminishes; relax and play well to the end of the season, somehow finishing 7th; cue go into the next season with high expectation. Sound familiar?! I suppose that's my point, Moyes coming back doesn't achieve anything. We might as well stick with the current manager as the outcome will likely be the same; look at last season.

Change is needed, but don't change for change sake; make it meaningful.

Iakovos Iasonidis
99 Posted 24/11/2019 at 13:24:49
Appointing Moyes takes away all the pleasure of firing Silva. When Moshiri took over I think we all believed our time had finally come to be where we belong. Fighting for silverware, being contenders, to put it simple I think we believed we would be where Tottenham is status regarded but we ended up being more like Southampton. We will go down sometime soon the way this club is run. Truth is I don't want to be Tottenham I just want to be Everton. Genuine Everton not nouveau riche, no character, no balls, Everton. I can't feel optimistic about our club right now.
Jim Wilson
100 Posted 24/11/2019 at 13:26:47
The two biggest no no's Moyes and Hughes are the bookies favorites to take over Everton.
It shows that the bookies know how stupid Kenwright and Moshiri are.

If it was to happen I think the bookies would then install Everton favorites to go down and I would agree.

It has to be a big name.
Apart from Eddie Howe, who is the only young manager I would trust to steer us clear of relegation.
Benitez is not ideal for a relegation fight.

Jay Harris
101 Posted 24/11/2019 at 13:27:17
I wouldnt give Silva to the end of the day.

His record is nothing short of disgraceful.

If he is allowed anymore time it will give the new manager an even bigger task to recover in less games.

A couple of lads from Gladys street could manage this club better than Silva.

David Pearl
102 Posted 24/11/2019 at 13:29:25
Going against the grain l think the article is bobbins. I'd rather have a slug in charge of us rather than Silva. His relationship with the players is all that's saved him.

Whay Moyes did for us with zero investment should garner him more respect. We have a portion of our fan base that wants certain players to fail... just like they wanted Allardyce to fail. He didn't. The name of the game is football and your aim is to get points.

My first choice... that would be Arteta. Then it would be Bilic. After that l would take Moyes... slightly ahead of him would be Martinez. YES thats right... theres another manager hounded out. If we are going to lose lets lose with a bit of style.

I think with Delph, Gomes Gbamin and Bernard you could argue that our first choice midfield is all out injured.

As it stands Moyes would settle us down, set us up properly give us a strong base so we can move forward. Anyone saying Moyes is a shit manager is talking out of their grudge holding backside. Grow the f up.

Jim Wilson
103 Posted 24/11/2019 at 13:35:51
Daniel - one cup final when we couldn't beat Manu reserves in the semi but won the penalty shoot out. Well beaten in the Final
Very little else.

We finished 4th in a freak season when we finished with a minus goal difference. After getting knocked out of Champions League in first game we made fools of ourselves in the eufa cup.

Besides numerous hammerings, embarrassing cup exits, never getting close to winning at Anfield, Moyes's treachury when leaving us for Manu and trying to poach Baines rules him out.

I would rather have Big Sam than Moyes

Jer Kiernan
104 Posted 24/11/2019 at 13:36:12
I would like to add as alluded to in the article, that had Mosh ran that cancer in our club Mr Kenwright out the door, there would be no need to write this article,

It comes from a place of not only fear but familiarity, As regards the Moyes scenario you can apply same to Mosh and Bill, would somebody who has taken a business with the potential of Everton and ran into utter mediocrity for decades be "kept on" after a takeover, me thinks not

Maybe knit picking here but when you say " No surprise then that in the wake of the shocking 2-0 home defeat to Norwich" when you say "shocking" I am assume you mean the manner of the defeat ?

It came to no shock to me that we got beaten by them it was like watching a replay of the games where Silva had been totally outsmarted by much lesser opponents I am not going to list them here

The fans need to get both vocal and beligerant and they need to want BK gone with the manager, is the only way we can cut ties with the dreary past

Silva OUT

Anthony Murphy
105 Posted 24/11/2019 at 13:38:50
I think what we need is someone who can first and foremost instil discipline, get us organised and playing in a cohesive way with players doing the basics well and knowing exactly what is being asked of them. Like it or not, we need to do this on a tight budget over the next few years whilst the stadium is a huge priority. I really like Wilder, but can fully appreciate he may have found his level. He wouldn’t be top of my list, but I feel he should be in the frame given some of the other names being mentioned.
Danny O'Neill
106 Posted 24/11/2019 at 13:38:55
Thank's for the very grown up last remark David.

I don't think Moyes is a shit manager. I think he's a limited one; like Allardyce and the current incumbent, hence my point. We appointed Allardyce and finished 8th. Our current manager achieved that last season & will likely do so this year if we somehow leave him in post. Moyes on average achieved 7th/8th and would likely do so if we appoint him, but like Allardyce, it would be seen as achievement as opposed to Silva's & Koeman's before him failure.

Back to my previous. Stop messing about and if we are going to change, make it meaningful and change the direction of travel.

Dave Abrahams
107 Posted 24/11/2019 at 13:41:12
On another Everton website, a poster has said it is being reported on the radio that the media are gathering at Finch Farm this afternoon. Rumour?
Rob Halligan
108 Posted 24/11/2019 at 13:44:50
Dave, if I had the car I would drive down there and find out, as I'm only about 3 or 4 miles away. Unfortunately the missus has gone out in our car.
Tony Hill
109 Posted 24/11/2019 at 13:45:35
Anthony @105, given where we now find ourselves, I think you are absolutely correct.

We are alarmingly loose in our play and in our formations - that is how relegation candidates perform, without structure and failing to control/pass properly. Of course, lack of confidence completes the vicious circle.

The first thing we need to realise is how much trouble we're in. Start, as always, with the defence and stop conceding. Those goals yesterday were horror stories. Attractive football is not now the priority.

Derek Knox
110 Posted 24/11/2019 at 13:48:34
Lakovos, at the risk of covering old ground, I am not in favour of a Moyes return, not only for previously stated reasons, but I feel it would be a retrograde step.

We, and I use the term more hopefully than any other way, as WE have no say whatsoever in the picking of a new appointee. Equally, as we didn't for the previous incumbents, (much is the pity there, we could have saved the Club a fortune) but it does make us wince at the total profligacy and to a much more concerning degree, incompetence of the Board.

Like you mentioned we all thought our prayers had been answered when Moshiri came onboard, instead it has resembled more of a nightmare, apart from a few games that you could count on one hand, between three different Managers.

Brent Stephens
111 Posted 24/11/2019 at 13:50:30
Rob #108 " Unfortunately the missus has gone out in our car".

"our car"? Surely you mean her car.

Rob Halligan
112 Posted 24/11/2019 at 13:51:53
Brent, she likes to think that!!
Paul Tran
113 Posted 24/11/2019 at 13:52:36
Dave/Rob, there's a website tweeting that something big is happening at 3pm It has an appalling track record.
Derek Knox
114 Posted 24/11/2019 at 13:56:24
Dave @ 107, & Rob @ 108, maybe there's going to be a lynching, while it's a bit extreme, it is warranted, and would save the Club another Compensation Bundle. :-)
Andy Walker
115 Posted 24/11/2019 at 13:59:53
David 102. Well said, there’s an anti Moyes narrative on TW and has been for years. Just look at the headline of this article, ‘Terrifying spectre’, it’s ridiculous. He did a very good job with sod all money. He bought some of the best players our team has had since the 80s. Arteta, Pienaar, Baines, Lescott, Jags, Coleman, Carsley, Cahill, Stones to name a few. He never had the big money to spend on top quality strikers.

TW anti Moyes posters complained about us only finishing 5, 6 or 7th saying we should be top 4 or winning the league and the reason why we weren’t was down to Moyes, mostly because he was ‘dour’ and ‘ginger’. I regularly challenged this view. Seems many on here still don’t get it.

Paul A Smith
116 Posted 24/11/2019 at 14:00:21
We didn't want Allardyce but want the kopite version of Allardyce. Strange.
Si Pulford
117 Posted 24/11/2019 at 14:04:13
God help us!! We’re awful and Moyes can’t fix that. I do believe that Moyes or Rafa would keep us up but the football would be atrocious. There has to be better candidates. If there isn’t a shortlist already then it’s criminal incompetence. But we don’t do short lists do we? We have one name on our lists. Like Giroud or Zouma. We didn’t learn from either of them despite starting seasons with unbalanced squads so nothing makes me think we even have a name never mind a shortlist. We have the squad to stay up but not with Silva. We need a CB and a striker in jan, with a new manager to try and get a tune out of them.
Jack Convery
118 Posted 24/11/2019 at 14:04:17
I said a few weeks ago that the nightmare scenario of Moyes was on the horizon if Silva went - I could see him riding abck in with someone like Phil Neville as his assistant. It would be Kenwrights dream and he would be in floods of tears if his bessie took over the reigns. Brands may Champion Cocu who he worked with at PSV and who is at Derby now. Pochettino seems to be the fans favourite but I reckon he needs 6 months away after dealing with Levy and the fact he never actually won anything with that Spurs team raises question marks. The only guy I can see with the necessary experience of the EPL and the ability to put a team together is Rafa, though it kills me to say it. However we want the best available, tried and trusted. No more wannabees or never wasses. I'd go for him and hold my nose. If Moyes comes back thats me finished. 60 years most of it misery will be more than enough. Shame on the Board for total mismanagement. A great article Lyndon and bang on the money as always.
Danny O'Neill
119 Posted 24/11/2019 at 14:10:18
I think most Everton fans appreciate what Moyes done for Everton and achieved within the constraints he operated.

I also think most Everton fans don't hate Moyes.

In the week when there has been much nostalgia surrounding the Howard's way film, the point is that bringing Moyes back will keep us where we are now. It won't progress us to the next level we all crave & desire.

Moyes done a job for a while. But he's limited as has been proven post his Everton career. That's not hating him, just giving an opinion of his "achievements"; trophy count anyone??

Gordon Crawford
120 Posted 24/11/2019 at 14:11:56
This shouldn’t even be an article. Why is our former boss even in the running, two words I suppose. Bill Kenwright. Absolutely sickening. This could be the year we don’t beat the drop.
Ray Roche
121 Posted 24/11/2019 at 14:13:38
Hughes has also been mentioned. I think I’ll give Goodison a miss if that cretin turns up.
Steve Brown
122 Posted 24/11/2019 at 14:13:52
Reading this thread shows why Moyes is a completely unacceptable option. He is too divisive a figure among fans.

My view of him is that he did reasonably well with a limited budget until 2008. After that, he began to act like he was doing the club a favour by staying. With no trophies in over a decade, he wasn't.

Paul A Smith
123 Posted 24/11/2019 at 14:14:31
Si 117. Isn't it about time we realised there isn't going to be a manager that can get great football from a small portion of quality?

We have the Portuguese Eddie Howe now. The man Moshiri had down as the philosopher of open sexy football, where defensive discipline is not the be-all and end-all and while you play lovely football on your day, you lose 15-20 a season.

That is what Bournemouth do, should we be like that? Has due diligence been a major priority for Moshiri?
I think not. I think he is careless and mistaken.

No doubt in my mind you give Bernardo Silva, Harry Kane, De Bruyne and Mane to Eddie Howe, he is getting Champions League football for Bournemouth.

This is why my mind is completely open to a manager that has the fundamentals in place but also has the team physically strong and also why I am still baffled as to why anyone on earth expected Allardyce to get good football from the players he had or even Silva to an extent.

It has to be one of the most obsessed, one-eyed view I have ever had read.

I agree with Steve above on Moyes. He spent the last few years looking after himself with his "knives to a gunfight" statements while little Wigan went and won games at Arsenal and Anfield.

He skipped away like a kid with chocolate when United came in and was happy to see us as the stepping stone so many players see us as.

Andy Crooks
124 Posted 24/11/2019 at 14:17:59
Andy Walker, whatever Moyes's record, the manner of his departure was treacherous. The standing ovation he received at his last game, with hindsight, was a low point in our history. He should have been pelted with eggs.

He showed himself to be a man devoid of integrity. His subsequent jobs have demonstrated just how poor he is. He was protected, way, way past his sell-by date, by Kenwright who then appointed relegation Roberto. A truly awful choice.

Derek Thomas
125 Posted 24/11/2019 at 14:24:20
Tony @ 109; nobody ever accused Moyes of prioritising attacking football over defence and sometimes his defence wasn't to hot either...

It's 50-50 (no matter what we think) if they even sack Silva and again 50-50 if they appoint Moyes. If Boys Pen Bill still has any say, I know where my money's going.

If there is an announcement, I wonder who'll make it?...and more to the point what it will say.

What's the point of giving Silva 1 or more games to 'get it right' unless its to get the new guy lined up.

Bielsa please.

Paul A Smith
126 Posted 24/11/2019 at 14:25:36
Have a look at who we signed after Martinez took us to our biggest points total.

There is a recurring theme here. There is only so far a manager can take a side without big improvements it seems.

Paul Tran
127 Posted 24/11/2019 at 14:26:28
David #102, I grew up a long time ago.

I actually quite like Moyes. When he left us, I rang round a few bookies for odds for Utd sacking him first season and us finishing higher than Utd. Bet 365 gave me 20/1 and I put a hefty bet on.

Seriously, I think he was a good manager who gets the best out of half-decent players and was superb at getting players from the lower leagues. I don't know what he's like now as he's not managed for a while.

It's Kenwright you should thank for the stability. While Moyes was there pushing down expectations, Bill didn't need to find a buyer. No ambitious club would have kept a trophyless manager for so long. He broke our transfer record for Yakubu and was very unlucky when his achilles finished him. He broke the record for Beattie & Johnson, who were both underwhelming.

Whenever expectations were raised, he and his team wet their pants. I didn't begrudge him his move to Utd. His limitations were exposed there, at Sunderland and West Ham. And he's been out of management for how long?

He did a good job for us, but it would be a lazy, retrograde step to bring him back now.

Mike Gaynes
128 Posted 24/11/2019 at 14:26:49
Lyndon, I agree with the premise of the article.

I just don't believe the rumor.

Your key sentence to me is: "... it’s a record that wouldn’t make you look at him twice were it not for his history with the Toffees." Exactly. Moyes has NO history with the Toffees who will make the decision on the next manager, Moshiri and Brands. They've never worked with him, perhaps never met him. They have no reason to consider him.

The Moyes rumor is a bet that Kenwright is still somehow secretly in charge of the decision and still somehow rates him above all others. And I just don't buy those bets.

I believe it will ultimately be Moshiri's call, advised by his handpicked adviser Brands. I believe he has already decided to correct the mistake he made picking Silva. And I believe he has already settled on a candidate and talked with him.

And I do not believe it is, or ever will be, David Moyes.

Paul Hewitt
129 Posted 24/11/2019 at 14:27:06
Wow, the hatred of Moyes from some on here is frightening. Have you seen the state of the club since he left, it's a bloody shambles that's what. What Moyes did with little money, and to get us regularly around the top 6 was amazing. I just wish Moshiri and his millions had come why Moyes was still incharge. I'm sure we would have won trophies if he had. Would Moyes coming back be my ideal choice,NO. But if he came till the summer and kept us up, then surely that's not a bad thing.
Jer Kiernan
130 Posted 24/11/2019 at 14:28:15
Moyes no thanks, we need to show "progress" as a club we have lacked for 30 years now, Cannot believe the calls for Benitez these posters seem to think they are being mature or pragmatic on the contrary I assert it comes from some Sado masicistic complex of being the bitches of our neighbours for how long now ? Could also apply to Moyes judging by the way he treated us in both his departure and subsequent comments about our club,,yet some just cant help wanting to come back for more kick in the teeth !! Odd

Like I wouldnt mind if Benitez was like Simone or the likes on an upward career path, and we are forgiving him the insults he threw at our club and the fact he was our neighbors succesful manager 20 YEARS ago, but he is a hasbeen got Newcastle relegated, nearly got them relegated a 2nd time, then pissed of the China for every other reason EXCEPT the money ( I assume he left his family behind )

But in a world FULL of meaning less stats some things are much more important, We need a manager who can unite the players and the fans (Royle, Moyes on arrival etc) the current chasm is huge, either of the above will divide and are spent forces now in the game, I suggest Eddie Howe is the man to bring our fans and players together and push us on to BMD playing attractive football

He has had sustained success with NO backing (although relative in the PL he has sustained it) but is time somebody gave him an opportunity with top players, ,his record of Sustaining good levels is the most important for me but on top of it, he is an Everton Supporter, he wont ask for 200m to buy players which we do not have, he is clear and straight talker, he has yet to achieve his best and he is within reach

Some time as a club you just need to do the "right" thing and good things come from it, He Deserves this job for me, he has earned it

Tony Hill
131 Posted 24/11/2019 at 14:30:43
Derek @ 125, no indeed. I’m afraid I wasn’t thinking of Moyes at all, merely responding to Anthony Murphy’s post, a post which says what we all need to acknowledge, I suggest, as a starting point.

I have no idea who will replace Silva if he goes, but I certainly do not want Moyes or Hughes..

Conor McCourt
132 Posted 24/11/2019 at 14:30:44
Jack 118- Are you really buying in to Levy's propaganda machine that we should question an appointment of Pochettino because he hasn't won anything.

If there is the slightest chance that he was interested in coming here (and it would be a miracle if he was) it would be the greatest appointment the club could possibly make.

He has operated under a similar wage structure to us yet he has had his team compete in a paradigm where Spurs have no place to be at the top end of domestic and European football. Next you will be believing that Chris Wilder should be questioned if they don't qualify for Europe this season.

But instead you want Benitez who has done no better than Steve Bruce at Newcastle and is currently struggling in a Micky mouse league. Yes he has a sterling CV but a guy who has no respect for our club and would produce a similar brand of football to Moyes.
No thanks.

Danny-119 exactly my thoughts

Derek Knox
133 Posted 24/11/2019 at 14:32:43
Can someone help out here, I have looked on all the sites that I know of, and have failed to see any mention of any press conference or Finch Farm announcements at 15.00 today.

Or is that just hopeful speculation by an equally frustrated member of our fanbase?

Michael Lynch
134 Posted 24/11/2019 at 14:34:36
Even the best managers in the world would struggle to get a tune out of the useless bunch of shite that we saw playing in blue yesterday. Gutless, clueless, heartless crap from one to eleven. Who signed this dreadful squad? We've been fleeced time and time again, from Sigurdsson to Moise Kean. It's like we have a meeting every transfer window and decide to sign every over-rated over-priced flash-in-the-pan chancer on the market. Something has gone horribly wrong, because I can't tell you if it's the manager, the coaches, the players or the Director of Football who should be sacked, but it might well be all of them.

Rob Halligan
135 Posted 24/11/2019 at 14:35:42
Should Moyes replace Silva, albeit on a short term contract, then stand by for another cringeworthy interview by kenwright.

Everton finish fourth and qualify for the champions league qualifying round, not the actual group stages, and Kenwright is on SSN popping champagne with Moyes. Made me cringe with embarrassment.

Everton sell Rooney to man Utd and it's reported Kenwright is blubbering down the phone to his mum, crying "they've took my boy off me" as he pockets a few million quid. Makes me cringe with embarrassment.

Everton beat Chelsea in the FA Cup to advance to the semi-finals. Kenwright later seen in SSN with Martinez, looking rather pissed with his arm around Martinez, proclaiming to the world "What a manager Martinez is". Makes me cringe with embarrassment.

Everton beat West ham this season, and after the game Bernard is being interviewed by Brazilian TV. Kenwright appears, puts arm around Bernard and quips up "what a goal and what a player". Makes me cringe with embarrassment.

Who the Fuck calls their CEO "My little miss dynamite"? Guess what . Makes me cringe with embarrassment!!

Paul A Smith
136 Posted 24/11/2019 at 14:35:44
Conor, 3 million more than ours Spurs wage bill is mate and look at the difference in quality.

If that doesn't tell people what Moshiri's managers have been left with, nothing will.

We have watched 4 years of dour under achieving non successful players pick up 3 million less than a champions league side and they say we can't attract top players.

Something has gone badly amiss hasn't it?

Paul Tran
137 Posted 24/11/2019 at 14:36:31
Jer, there is a ood case to be made for Howe, though he wouldn't be my choice.

If you look at the figures, he's had a few bob to spend from a wealthy owner. The man who has done a belting job on a minuscule budget is Dyche.

Anthony Dove
138 Posted 24/11/2019 at 14:39:31
Great article Lyndon. I just hope Kenwright and Moshiri
read it and the responses. We are only talking about the possibility of Moyes because we know that Kenwright still wields undue influence at the Club. I imagine a
Moyes/Cahill combo, with Duncan as back up,would be his ultimate dream.
Derek Thomas
139 Posted 24/11/2019 at 14:39:42
Mike Gaynes @ 128; and so say all of us, well me.
Jer Kiernan
140 Posted 24/11/2019 at 14:43:41
@Paul 137
I would agree Howe has had "some" money to spend but who the fck can you attract to Bournemout ( no offense to the club) but a 50mil in his pocket does not equate to 50mill in Klopps, Guardiola etc

I just feel Dyche plays anti-football which is fair if you are Burnley but would become dire to watch, I am not saying Howe is going to win the Ch Lge but I feel we will go to BMD behind the projecct, behind the Manager and Players and be in a good place to fill the new stadium with NEW fans

Right now our club is a joke but on top of that nobody even wants to look at our games, after watching all of Silvas matches I would suggest for most is blind loyalty attending what has been for the most part dross to watch

Kim Vivian
141 Posted 24/11/2019 at 14:43:42
Derek - I think that was just some knob comedian's attempt at irony on BBC HYS while trying to make us Evertonians feel hopeful. My ribs are still aching.
Jay Wood

142 Posted 24/11/2019 at 14:45:09
The one thing I would take issue with in Lyndon's opening post is the presumption that the manager replacement shortlist is a short one.

It is if you limit your options to a certain profile of manager, as many seem to do.

Such is the perception of Everton in recent years, even amongst our own, that the bookies immediately install the bleedingly obvious candidates of Moyes and Hughes as favourites.

Now Moyes, given the restraints he worked under, did well, all things considered. There were some good spells, some good buys, some 'nearly, but not quite' moments.

But it was also a marriage of convenience with Bill Kenwright and between them they shaped the narrative and presented the club as "plucky ole Everton, bashing their heads on the glass ceiling as paupers." For 11 unbroken, trophyless years, no less.

Many supporters bought into this narrative, excusing them and the club for not competing with the elite on the back of it.

But I for one am not having Ryan's comments @ 83 that anyone opposing Moyes' return and seeing it as a "retrograde lacking in the old grey matter...and simpleminded."

And more! That "It is beyond small thinking to think that, in fact it is not thinking at all! David Moyes produced great results on a shoestring before, think what he would achieve now." [Note to Ryan: how did his year at monied United go?]

Ryan concludes by describing those opposing Moyes' return as "neanderthal boo-ers" and that "the only thing they are any good at is going backwards. Keep quiet and allow us to go forward!"

Well, if I may be allowed to apply my evidently inferior grey-matter when compared to Ryan, I don't want David Moyes anywhere near Everton FC ever again in any capacity. And I speak as one who largely respected what he did in his time at Everton.

But the manner of his leaving, his comments about Everton on arriving at United, his derisory offers for Baines and Fellani, burnt every possible bridge 'twixt Moyes and Everton forever for me.

In his time since leaving Everton, Moyes continued to reveal his tendency to downplay expectations. As United manager, before playing Liverpool at Old Trafford, he declared the opposition went into the game as favourites. United lost.

In Spain, he had the Barcelona/Real Madrid excuse.

At Sunderland, after the first game of the season, he stated they were in a relegation battle. They were duly relegated after buying many a broken Everton crock. He said similar at WHU.

As this thread is showing, the re-appointment of David Moyes would be hugely divisive at a time when we need an appointment that would unite the support, not divide it.

Paul Tran calls it right for me. We don't need a fire-fighter. We need a fire-starter, someone to light a bonfire under these players and ignite a firestorm.

David Moyes is most definitely not that man.

And if he does get the gig, for no matter how long, it reflects abysmally on Moshiri and Brands and indicates that Bill Kenwright still holds far too much sway at the club when he should have been put out to pasture 3 years ago.

Dermot Byrne
143 Posted 24/11/2019 at 14:51:11
Mike #128 : I also agree with you. I think the fear of Moyes and Hughes is misplaced and remember websites will guage the maximum response.. positive or negative. All feeds the advertising income.

Who we get, and when, I have now idea and neither do any of us.

All I hope is they consider the price of a lazy conman like Schneiderlin v the cost of a good manager

Anyway, as we know it is rebuilding time...again!

Derek Knox
144 Posted 24/11/2019 at 14:52:24
Cheers Kim, suspected unfortunately it may have been a hoax, but a Statement to keep the fans informed of any decision, would have been appropriate and overdue.

Even better a lynching at Finch Ranch! :-) Yeehaa

Paul Tran
145 Posted 24/11/2019 at 14:55:39
Jer, both Howe & Dyche would be a gamble, experiencing genuine pressure and expectations for the first time.

I don't know enough about the foreign coaches to have an opinion of substance. If it was a Brit, I'd go with Dyche, in the hope that he'll bring some creativity with better players to go with his work ethic and nous.

Gerard McKean
146 Posted 24/11/2019 at 14:56:34
Jay #142, I think you’ve just shredded the pro Moyes argument. Viciously accurate!
Mike Gaynes
147 Posted 24/11/2019 at 14:57:45
Just as an aside, I think it's worth noting that TW today appears to have achieved something I have never seen before -- unanimity.

On a board where the opinions range from the brilliant to the bizarre and there's always someone to disagree with even the most general consensus, I haven't seen one post today calling for Silva to be given more time in the job. Not one.

Jay Wood

148 Posted 24/11/2019 at 14:59:07
Thanks Gerard. If you endorse it, that'll do for me!
Kevin Molloy
149 Posted 24/11/2019 at 15:00:26
the grimmest aspect of the last 24 hours is not the result even, but the reaction of the Board. A sort of, 'christ, didn't see that coming. what the hell do we do now? vibe is definitely being given off. One of the many advantages of having the owner tucked away in Monaco, and delegating any and every aspect except the key decisions. I think every fan would have said to themselves if he doesnt get us six from Soton and norwich he's toast, but clearly the Board havent even begun to focus on this. The biggest problem we have is that MOshiri has a massive ego, and not much common sense to back up the mound of cash he's sitting on. If he doesnt listen to Bill we are in serious serious danger of going down, as another Koeman appointment would just about finish us.
Raymond Fox
150 Posted 24/11/2019 at 15:01:00
No to Moyes, if we can get Benitez do it, at least he knows what he's doing and has proved it.
Thats what we need after dismissing so many managers, if indeed Silva is shown the door.
We'll avoid relegation, no problem 'he said blithely', although things couldn't be more bleak just now.
Problem is I cant see how in the future we are going to get out of this situation of being perpetually nearly men.
Sure the manager is important but even more so are the players. Our players are here only because they are not good enough for the present top clubs thats still our major flaw.

The only solution I can come up with is lots of money, much more than Moshiri has.

Alan Smith
151 Posted 24/11/2019 at 15:04:02
Im not against benitez buts he is more defensive than allardyce and would not want to work under a DoF.
Brian Williams
152 Posted 24/11/2019 at 15:04:21
If Dyche got the job and stuck to his mantra (which I think is a fantastic one) "Minimum requirement is maximum effort" most of our squad would be out of a job!
Jimmy Hogan
153 Posted 24/11/2019 at 15:06:39
Mike #147 I think that is because we've all finally realised that Everton's default position under Silva is that of the easiest team to beat in the Premier League, home or away.
Rob Halligan
154 Posted 24/11/2019 at 15:07:17
Jay # 142. Great post mate.
Darren Hind
155 Posted 24/11/2019 at 15:08:02

Maybe people are not calling for more time for Silva because they feel he is almost certain to get it.

Seemingly everyone wants him gone by the weekend (this one) but how many believe he will be ?

Danny O'Neill
156 Posted 24/11/2019 at 15:09:24
Jay (142). Don't forget his attempt to tell the Manchester United fan base who he inherited as being the most successful English title winning club of all time with Ferguson having surpassed Liverpool's title collection, that they "aspired" to be like local rivals Manchester City.

The master of playing down expectation so that mediocracy looks like success.

Paul Hewitt
157 Posted 24/11/2019 at 15:11:00
Jay wood@ 143. Nice article. It's ok saying who you don't want. But can you give me a realistic name to come in then.
Paul A Smith
158 Posted 24/11/2019 at 15:11:27
I think its done now. Even if the board told Silva they had let him down they would still have to sack him.

No manager survives a reaction like yesterdays surely? The next defeat will be an even worse reaction.

Conor McCourt
159 Posted 24/11/2019 at 15:12:29
Paul Tran145- I'm glad you feel that way about Dyche bringing some creativity with better players as I have arranged a date with Kathy Burke. I haven't seen her in about 20 years since Kevin and Perry but I'm hoping she looks like Katie Melua now.
Mike Gaynes
160 Posted 24/11/2019 at 15:14:50
Darren, that's a point... even if the decision to sack him has been made, the timing will be impacted by other factors we know nothing about.
Jay Wood

161 Posted 24/11/2019 at 15:16:04
Paul @ 157. There's always one who comes up with that dumb line.

Play that game with yourself or someone else.

Or even better, put it to the likes of Moshiri, Brands and BK who will be making that decision.

Paul Hewitt
162 Posted 24/11/2019 at 15:17:18
Jay. That means you haven't s clue then.
Paul Tran
163 Posted 24/11/2019 at 15:18:22
Conor #159, I said hope not think. Good luck with Kathy, less hope there, though you'll have a good laugh with her!
Tommy Carter
164 Posted 24/11/2019 at 15:20:14
Knife to a gunfight

No doubt if he takes charge he’ll guide us to 7th spot and tell us all how we should be grateful for it.

He had his time, much of it and despite a fine job of improving us he never won a trophy and was never able to take the next step.

His behaviour towards our club when he was Utd manager lacked a hell of a lot of class and he lost a lot of respect for me. Good riddance

Paul Tran
165 Posted 24/11/2019 at 15:25:44
Mike/Darren, I'm hoping they're secretly planning to wrap up negotions and announce Silva's surprise replacement as we speak.

Unless they mess it up and announce tomorrow that Marco has their complete confidence.

A matter of time, question is when and who?

Alan Smith
166 Posted 24/11/2019 at 15:28:00
Why is no one calling for marcels head?
Rob Halligan
167 Posted 24/11/2019 at 15:30:40
Paul 165. If there's no announcement today, and it's looking highly unlikely now, then I think Silva will be in charge for the Leicester game at least. He will be dead man walking in the lead up to that game. Lose that and I think he will be strapped to "Old Sparky" just in time for the 400 metre hike to Mordor.
Alan Smith
168 Posted 24/11/2019 at 15:31:46
Why did everyone hate shadow director Philip Green(who wasnt) but, fantasise about shadow director Usmanov?

Id sack half the fans first. Then work my way up through the club. Silva, brands and the people responsible for not going beyond 52,000 capacity for a new stadium.

Mike Gaynes
169 Posted 24/11/2019 at 15:32:31
Alan, because at this point he seems to be doing his job pretty well.
Alan Smith
170 Posted 24/11/2019 at 15:42:24
Who is? Brands? No cb, no cf

Before I go any further, can you do twenty keeps ups?

Mike Gaynes
171 Posted 24/11/2019 at 15:42:43
Paul #165, yep, but negotiations take time.

However, I don't think there's the slightest chance of your other scenario!

Two fans spoke for the entire supporter base yesterday. One was the guy who bellowed at Kenwright after the game, "He's gotta go, Bill! He's gotta go!" (Phil Kirkbride posted the video... check it out.)

The other was the mum in the stand with the young son who appeared on camera on the US broadcast. Just at the moment of her closeup, she screamed, "Fuck off, Silva!" (The little boy ducked his head and smiled.)

The people have spoken.

Eric Myles
172 Posted 24/11/2019 at 15:48:33
"the leap for the media to David Moyes, currently employed because of a string of failed or middling managerial spells"

Shouldn't that read currently unemployed???

Eric Myles
173 Posted 24/11/2019 at 15:51:37
Tommy #164, you wouldn't be grateful for a seventh place finish right now??
Richard Nelson
174 Posted 24/11/2019 at 15:54:24
What half decent manager/head coach in their right mind would want to go anywhere near the Everton job...( maybe Micky Mellon, sorry Micky didn't mean it )….dilapidated team, stadium falling down, Board comprised of half-wits, and most of all supporters still living in the Harry Catterick era...yours sincerely D.Prest
Jay Wood

175 Posted 24/11/2019 at 15:55:08
Paul @ 162.

Nope! It doesn't mean that at all.

I could easily put up a list of names.

It would count for nothing.

I'm not one of the decision makers who will make that call.

Nor do I have their ear to persuade them one way or the other.

You challenging me to offer an alternative name to Moyes and me choosing not to do so doesn't invalidate the points I made in my post @142.

Care to counter them whilst also validating your own post @ 129 that buys into the narrative I exposed:
* Moyes 'was amazing' with little money
* Regular got around the top 6
* For 'sure' would have won trophies with Moshiri's millions
* 'IF' Moyes returned and kept us up "that's not a bad thing"

The first two I acknowledged. The last two is total supposition on your part.

We need a full-time manager NOW we can believe in, not a caretaker to stumble through until the summer with no guarantee of improving our plight.

Ray Roche
176 Posted 24/11/2019 at 16:00:12
Interesting interview with Benitez in today’s Sunday Times. He’s still working on a “project “ in China but his wife and one daughter are still in Heswall and the other in France studying languages.
His wife wants him to return to the Premier League.
Now, this is the thing, both Leicester and Everton made approaches to Benitez when he was at Newcastle but he stayed because of “emotion”.
So we have tried before to get him.
Rob Marsh
177 Posted 24/11/2019 at 16:01:59
Derek Knox # 61

Derek, unfortunately we the fans are no longer the life blood of our clubs, it's SKY and BT who pay most of the bills, we're just there for effect and don't really matter anymore.

Paul Tran
178 Posted 24/11/2019 at 16:06:44
Rob #167, as long as that's the only Old Sparky we see!
Darren Hind
179 Posted 24/11/2019 at 16:14:07
Anyone who lives or has lived in this City will know how quickly rumours (especially footy related) can sweep through it.

I've heard from two different sources today that Sheffield United will be the latest to complain about Moshiri "tapping up" their man
I would never have considered him so I don't have an opinion on it. Just relaying what I heard.

Anyone else heard anything along these lines ?

Tony Hill
180 Posted 24/11/2019 at 16:14:14
Jay@142, I think we need both a firefighter and a firestarter.

What worries me most is the absence of toughness and presence in the side - our spine is lacking both in terms of footballing solidity/quality and in terms of courage. We need to buy in January.

We look very lightweight and yesterday, in particular, I thought we looked very much like a relegation side. I do not say that we will go down, that would be premature obviously, but I think, given our coming fixtures, we need to ensure survival first and then look to develop (yet again).

John Keating
181 Posted 24/11/2019 at 16:14:45
I would totally forget lists and names of potential managers.
The absolute priority for me is to get rid of our present fraudster immediately.
The longer he is here and the more games we play under him will put us further in the mire and make things more difficult for his replacement.
Getting rid may well focus these imposters who wear our shirt.

Our immediate need is to stop the rot which is accelerating every week.

Unless we could entice Poch, which is zero to be honest, we have to get someone in place until the end of the season ONLY. None of those 18 months, 2 year nonsense deals.

For me until the end of the season 'd give it to Unsworth. Could he really do an worse than the present arsehole ? Would he be in any way less thought of than the 2 getting mentioned, Moyes and Hughes ?

Give it to Unsworth with the only stipulation that Schneiderlin, Sig and Tosun under no circumstances start another game for us.

Moshiri needs to grow a pair and get a full clear out at Board level and Finch Farm. No more Mr. Nice Guy

Silva has to go immediately, we've given him far too long.

John Keating
182 Posted 24/11/2019 at 16:15:03
I would totally forget lists and names of potential managers.
The absolute priority for me is to get rid of our present fraudster immediately.
The longer he is here and the more games we play under him will put us further in the mire and make things more difficult for his replacement.
Getting rid may well focus these imposters who wear our shirt.

Our immediate need is to stop the rot which is accelerating every week.

Unless we could entice Poch, which is zero to be honest, we have to get someone in place until the end of the season ONLY. None of those 18 months, 2 year nonsense deals.

For me until the end of the season 'd give it to Unsworth. Could he really do an worse than the present arsehole ? Would he be in any way less thought of than the 2 getting mentioned, Moyes and Hughes ?

Give it to Unsworth with the only stipulation that Schneiderlin, Sig and Tosun under no circumstances start another game for us.

Moshiri needs to grow a pair and get a full clear out at Board level and Finch Farm. No more Mr. Nice Guy

Silva has to go immediately, we've given him far too long.

Jay Harris
183 Posted 24/11/2019 at 16:17:01
That wouldnt be a bad shout Darren but I havent heard anything on the grapevine except that this board are totally at odds with each other.
Tony Hill
184 Posted 24/11/2019 at 16:17:46
PS I mean a firefighter and a firestarter in the same person.
James Marshall
185 Posted 24/11/2019 at 16:17:55
Pochetino, Max Allegri etc, it's good to see everyone still has a sense of humour! We're Everton, not Bayern Munich - much more likely to end up with someone of the lofty stature of Alan Pardew, or Tony Pulis et al.

Everton are stuck in the past in every sense of the term and that ain't changed in the 40 years I've followed them. I see no reason to believe that's going to change this time round either.

Richard Reeves
186 Posted 24/11/2019 at 16:18:51
I'm sure if Moshiri offered enough money, he could bring in the managers we don't think would come to us. He doesn't mind wasting money on players (average at best) in their late twenties with no decent sell-on value so why not the manager. It's the most important position in the club and why we have failed for over two decades.

But please not Benitez, the man's eyes practically well up every time he steps foot in that God-forsaken place with the pram hood.

Paul Tran
187 Posted 24/11/2019 at 16:24:01
Darren, I'd be surprised if Wilder leaves 'his' team for us, but you never know!
James Marshall
188 Posted 24/11/2019 at 16:26:12
We'd have as much hope of employing Deontay Wilder at the moment.
Anthony Murphy
189 Posted 24/11/2019 at 16:27:12
It heard it Darren, although if the Blades win today that rumour will gather pace. I have heard that there is a desire from some within the club to bring Arteta in, but just a rumour and nothing more than that
James Hill
190 Posted 24/11/2019 at 16:27:19
Same people who hate Moyes and don't him wanted and support Silva. The same people say there is no way a top manager like Poch would come Everton.

BTW Lyndon Lloyd and Toffeweb do not represent all Evertonians. There many many more who have a much more pragmatic and balanced view and want Everton to remain in the top flight.

Modern fans I guess, desiring so called modern football and prepared to go down watching Silva's shit brand. Bring back big Sam if that what it takes to keep us.

We just got embarrassed by the bottom of the league or maybe we need to give Silva more time, Lyndon, because he's been unlucky and it will keep a few modern fans happy.
Alan J Thompson
191 Posted 24/11/2019 at 16:32:28
Is it possible that the wanted replacement who has recently been mentioned but is not available until either the season's end or his present club are knocked out of European competitions thus why we are looking at a stopgap, Ten Haag?

Or is that crediting our Board with too much advanced thinking?

John G Davies
192 Posted 24/11/2019 at 16:32:38
Jay 142, best post I have ever seen from you. Best post on the thread.

Rob Marsh
193 Posted 24/11/2019 at 16:32:40
Mike Gaynes # 128

You can see the depth of Kenwrightophobia implied by your post and also that exists on this site.

I myself have become irrational about the possibilty of Moyes once again on the sideline.

The quicker they get the new man in the better.

The really frightening thing about this that might turn your post on it's head is that most of the bookies have stop taking odds on Moyes at 1/2, do they know something we don't.

Jay Harris
194 Posted 24/11/2019 at 16:35:16
I would love us to get Ten Hag but I feel he is too entrenched in Ajax to give us a second thought.
Derek Taylor
195 Posted 24/11/2019 at 16:35:34
If Everton proves to be still guided by Kenwright and appoints Moyes, can I suggest that ToffeeWeb closes down for the day following as a mark of our utter contempt for this totally useless Board ?
Andy Crooks
196 Posted 24/11/2019 at 16:36:58
I don't believe that those who want Silva gone should have to name a replacement. That work should have been started some time ago by our club. I just feel that the lack if a plan B on the pitch just mirrors the lack of one off it.
Daniel A Johnson
197 Posted 24/11/2019 at 16:38:47
If the manager was to come from the premier league I'd like to see Dyche given the job, his maximum effort mantra is certainly needed. Doing a good job as always at Burnley I'm sure he would relish the opportunity to get us firing again.

Eddie Howe for me is a risk and I remain unconvinced.

Mike Gaynes
198 Posted 24/11/2019 at 16:39:15
Ray #176, Rafa's only remaining project will be packing his suitcases for his China Southern flight from Dalian to London next weekend. With his settlement check in his pocket.

Rob #193, you probably know more about bookies than I do, but I never assume they "know" something because, after all, their job is to generate bets, not predict an outcome -- they don't make money by being right.

Derek #195, a swarm of crazed Blues normally kept occupied by TW but suddenly with nothing to do could be a catastrophe if loosed on society. Even for just 24 hours.

Paul A Smith
199 Posted 24/11/2019 at 16:41:05
Arteta Cahill Big Dunc. They won't settle for anyone not giving 100%.
Fran Mitchell
200 Posted 24/11/2019 at 16:44:43
Dyche would be ok for me. Could see him getting top7 with us.

We need to be realistic, we ain't gonna get any manager who's gonna make us play like Brazil...just not gonna happen.

A decent manager who gets the best from what he has, well organised, and maybe in 5 years we can attract a better manager to go up a level.

As it stands, having tactically inept managers with so called 'attacking philosophies' will just take us down.

Bobby Mallon
201 Posted 24/11/2019 at 16:46:33
Until kenwright and the old guard have no influence we will keep struggling along
Jim Wilson
202 Posted 24/11/2019 at 16:46:52
I hope there is a way you can send a message to Everton F C that Moyes is not an option for the majority of supporters.

I for one will completely give up on Everton, after 50 years of going the game, if he returns.

A Moyes appointment will be the final straw for me and Everton will be done as far as I am concerned and I think they will go down.

I would rather have Big Sam back than the treacherous one.

Joe McMahon
203 Posted 24/11/2019 at 16:47:19
Paul @199, that's part of the problem at Everton and the obsession with the old boys club. Does Cahill want to be a manager? As for Ferguson he's part of the pathetic coaching team.

No one at LFC coaching team has a Liverpool connection and it's the best LFC team there has been since Bob Paisley.

Eddie Dunn
204 Posted 24/11/2019 at 16:47:32
Folks, the BBC r5 gang were talking about Wilder for Everton and Clinton Morrison(former Owl!) said it would be very difficult for Wilder to say no!
All managers know that a poor run of form and they are toast, so Wilder might seek to capitalise on his flavour of the month moment.
Many on here like to rubbish our history but we are still a big draw to players and coaches as the very top jobs don't come around very often and until you have managed the likes of Everton, you won't get those jobs. Thus Dyche, Wilder and Howe would all be interested.
Mike Gaynes
205 Posted 24/11/2019 at 16:48:16
Fran #200, I was hoping I'd see you post today. Somebody on the Forum yesterday was enthused about young Gallardo at River Plate as a possible manager. Not that Everton would ever consider him, but assuming he speaks English, would you consider him a candidate for a Prem job at some point?
Mark Guglielmo
206 Posted 24/11/2019 at 16:49:09
Jim @40/@43 I'm with you in that a chunk of the blame does lay with the players as well, but I can't understand 2 things: 1) how on Earth you blame Brands in the least, and 2) how you blame Brands signings. In the @43 post, nearly everyone you bash is a Koeman/Walsh signing. And this re: Kean, "Kean was a Brands signing, clearly he does little in training if he can’t get on that pitch yesterday" is pure rubbish. All of a sudden you're trusting Silva's judgment or decision-making abilities? GMAFB.

Bluntly put, do you think the below is a "relegation fodder" team?

Sidibe Holgate Mina Digne
Gbamin Iwobi Gomes
Richarlison Kean Bernard

Notice who's missing? Schneiderlin, Sigurdsson, Walcott, Tosun, DCL, Keane...I kind of get passing judgment on a manager after 16 months; it's just the nature of football fans in 2019. But passing judgment on Brands after 16 mos/3 transfer windows? That leaves me scratching my head down to the bone.

Alan Smith
207 Posted 24/11/2019 at 16:49:22
How was allardyce toxic and dyce and benitez ok.

All three are good managers.
Someone explain it? I'll give anyone a hundred pound who can.
As long as they use facts.

Conor McCourt
208 Posted 24/11/2019 at 16:49:59
Anthony 189- if that is under serious consideration you have just made my day. I realise it would be a gamble but so is every appointment.

Arteta would unite us as a club, he is currently working under one of the greatest managers of all time. Guardiola credits the transformation of Sterlings game to our maestro.

You could just imagine how detailed and how many ways of playing we would have if he could bring some of Guardiolas nous to us.

Listening to some of the names we have come up with today for me is just like putting a different face to a previous manager which didn't unite the fans. When I hear Benitez I think Moyes, Howe I think Martinez, Dyche I think Allardyce.

Arteta excites me in that he's not just one of us but he represents a bit of a revolution like Chelsea have done with Lampard. I don't want change for changes sake, I want meaningful change.

Daniel A Johnson
209 Posted 24/11/2019 at 16:50:19
Look at Sheff Utd right now playing with pace passion and desire, we need a man motivator as others have said someone to light a fire under them
Ray Roche
210 Posted 24/11/2019 at 16:51:14

I just thought it interesting that we HAD actually (factually) made an approach already, albeit in the fairly recent past, to get Rafa.

Sheffield 1-0 The other United

Bill Gall
211 Posted 24/11/2019 at 16:52:55
I am watching Sheff Utd as well and the difference in team work effort and desire compared to Everton is like night and day.
Joe McMahon
212 Posted 24/11/2019 at 16:54:10
Eddie, wouldn't it be nice to be able to land one of Europes elite names. Category A List instead of the usual category C. But of course we ain't and A team anymore. We ain't even Leicester. What an absolute shambles of the past 30 years.
Rob Marsh
213 Posted 24/11/2019 at 16:54:47
Ray # 176

That is interesting, they've shown previous interest in him.

Having said that I'm looking at the price SKY are offering 9/1, seems to imply it won't happen?

Lyndon Lloyd
214 Posted 24/11/2019 at 16:54:49
James (190) “BTW Lyndon Lloyd and Toffeweb do not represent all Evertonians. There many many more who have a much more pragmatic and balanced view and want Everton to remain in the top flight. “

You're quite right, James, and I've never claimed to speak for anyone. For 23 years, I've called like I see it and people can choose to read it, agree with it or take issue with it. I usually try and take a balanced view but when I feel passionately about something, I'll nail my colours to the mast as I have here. On this issue, reading the comments here and on social media the past 24 hours, it looks like I'm in a clear majority.

I'm not sure where you get the idea I'm supporting Silva. If you'd read my match report from yesterday, I make no bones of the fact that I believe he's at the end of his road at EFC.

I'm also interested in your certainty that Moyes would keep us up (not to mention your assertion that by not wanting him back is tantamount to wanting us to get relegated). I happen to believe that we're too good to go down regardless of who is in charge but Moyes's time at Sunderland suggests to me that he could be just as risky as keeping the present incumbent in charge.

Daniel A Johnson
215 Posted 24/11/2019 at 16:54:53
Agree Bill Gall, from the get go yesterday we were slow lethargic and almost uninterested. From the moment they came out something looked off, it was almost preseason-esque
Ray Roche
216 Posted 24/11/2019 at 16:55:19
“ When I hear Benitez I think Moyes”.
May I suggest you look at their respective trophy cabinets.
Darren Hind
217 Posted 24/11/2019 at 16:55:21

I now believe we have sounded Sheff united out, but everything is hunky Dory over there at the moment. They avent had it so good for decades. After poaching the Southampton and Watford managers, I don't think Moshiri will be allowed anywhere near him. I'm pretty certain that would be the case with Dyche too.

Mark Guglielmo
218 Posted 24/11/2019 at 16:55:32
Dave @71 holeee shit, that was by FAR the funniest thing I've ever read, and I would like to know how long you spent coming up with the idea, and putting it into writing? If you're not already, you have a career in stand-up. I completely visualized you doing this bit on a stage. Bravo, sir, bra-fucking-vo.
Derek Taylor
219 Posted 24/11/2019 at 16:55:57
Paul @199 : As was pointed out a few day's ago, Kenwright is fond of trotting out the mantra that, since WW2, only ex-Everton players have managed our trophy winning teams. If he still holds that view and really has a voice, the likes of Arteta, Cahill and Carsley may be seen as a future management team. Ferguson I'm not sure about.
Brian Williams
220 Posted 24/11/2019 at 16:56:32
Don't know about toxic but Allardyce had us playing the most boring turgid football imagineable. Not comparing his football with what we're watching now but just stating what I believe to be a fact, and all those around me at the game felt the same way during his time here.
Iain Latchford
221 Posted 24/11/2019 at 16:56:37
Quite simply I don't think Moshiri knows what do to. Silva should be sacked, but there's no obvious solution to the problem after that. Moyes isn't the answer, and a high quality manager like Pochettino wouldn't come. No team doing well is going to agree to releasing their manager mid season. We've seen that before.

A complete clusterfuck of a situation.

Danny Baily
222 Posted 24/11/2019 at 16:56:37
We'll need to move fast in the search for a new manager, looks like the UTD job will be up for grabs very soon.
Paul Tran
223 Posted 24/11/2019 at 16:56:40
Alan #207, I'd argue that Allardyce is exposed as a one-trick pony, Benitez is a good organiser & tactician possibly past his best, Dyche is unexposed doing anything other than excelling with a small club/budget.

I don't think any of them will be managing Everton.

Daniel A Johnson
224 Posted 24/11/2019 at 17:00:34
Man Utd players may as well have a welcome Pochettino banner out at the moment
John G Davies
225 Posted 24/11/2019 at 17:01:15
Dave or Tony Abrahams.

Under 23s been contacted today, told to stay off tomorrow?
Any truth in what I just got told lads

Rob Marsh
226 Posted 24/11/2019 at 17:02:53
Lyndon # 214

Based on £ value of the squad we are too good to go down, but every other metric points to another potential outcome?

This club cannot afford to be complacent.

Mark Guglielmo
227 Posted 24/11/2019 at 17:02:58
For those who are fine with Moyes, or say he's "better than Silva," or, incredibly, actually favor him coming back, I would like to pose to you a scenario.

You married a woman eons ago. After a boring 10 years during which neither she nor you were truly happy, you finally get a divorce. 10 years late, through a few old mates who know her, you find out that she somehow married FOUR MORE TIMES, all of which ended in divorce, one as quickly as 10 months later, and another who drank himself to the point where he's homeless. Somehow she walked away with some of those poor blokes' earnings too. She's put on quite a bit of weight, still has several filthy habits that drove you nuts the first time, and clearly hasn't gone clothes shopping or to a modern hairdresser since your first divorce.

And your first thought is...I should marry her again.

Now doesn't that sound bloody fucking ridiculous?

Christy Ring
228 Posted 24/11/2019 at 17:05:27
I believe Arteta, Cahill and Carsley, even though a lot of the comments don't want explayers, would be a great choice. I know Arteta has no experience, but after working under Pep, and Wenger he's ready, he'd take no shit, and the same with Cahill and Carsley, who is well got in his England role.
Iain Latchford
229 Posted 24/11/2019 at 17:05:52
I was just sent this from a friend. Might be rubbish (have blanked out the name...

From a reliable source (xxxxx xxxxxxx lad who plays for u23s’)
Silva sacked, under 23’s just been contacted at home and told not to come in tomorrow so something going on, unsworth prob taking temp charge.

Mike Gaynes
230 Posted 24/11/2019 at 17:06:03
Lyndon #214, that's a Phil Neville tackle of a post. Well said.
Daniel A Johnson
231 Posted 24/11/2019 at 17:06:08
Jesus on that note Paul I'd be getting a years subscription to and tinder
Mark Guglielmo
232 Posted 24/11/2019 at 17:09:18
Mike G @147 good observation. Allow me to make my own; Steve Ferns has been notably absent from this thread :-D
Brent Stephens
233 Posted 24/11/2019 at 17:09:36
As I said earlier, I couldn’t see Unsworth in dugout on Friday night at Southport. 2 +2?
Paul Jones
234 Posted 24/11/2019 at 17:10:47
Brent @233
What's my prize?
Derek Taylor
235 Posted 24/11/2019 at 17:11:58
Mark, he's probably writing up his hero's tactics notes for the next game !
Mike Gaynes
236 Posted 24/11/2019 at 17:12:33
Mark #232, I knew someone would mention that. I chose not to.
Jim Wilson
237 Posted 24/11/2019 at 17:13:08
Arsène Charles Ernest Wenger OBE is a French football manager and former player. He was the manager of Arsenal from 1996 to 2018, where he was the longest-serving and most successful in the club's history - Wikipedia

With Arteta

Paul A Smith
238 Posted 24/11/2019 at 17:13:40
This is round about the time of year Koeman was sacked and I don't see Moshiri trusting Unsworth again?
Jim Wilson
239 Posted 24/11/2019 at 17:13:58
With Arteta!
Brent Stephens
240 Posted 24/11/2019 at 17:14:18
Paul sometimes 2+2 =5!
Alan Smith
241 Posted 24/11/2019 at 17:15:13
Too good to go down?

Hmm worst cfs in the league, smallest most mistake ridden keeper in the prem, two fbs who cant defend (if Coleman doesnt play), slowest midfield 3, a DoF who hasnt got a clue, no height to defend set pieces.

And all this moshiri investment bollocks. I'm sick of hearing this myth.

We were the seventh highest wage bill before he come in and we are the seventh now. And he wants to reduce it. And we are still a selling club.

Stop talking shite. If you cant do twenty keep ups and make daft statements like that without thinking them through please go and support the reds. Thats were deluded football fans belong.

Its peoole like you who believe in charlatans like Brands and walsh.

Selling lukaku, rooney and gana and loving moshiri.

Absolute idiots.

Paul Tran
242 Posted 24/11/2019 at 17:15:50
Darren #217, the gossip I got from Burnley fans (for what it's worth) was that Dyche would be interested and their board would be unlikely to stand in his way.
Derek Taylor
243 Posted 24/11/2019 at 17:18:27
Jim @237, Wenger has just been appointed Seniot Football Adviser to FIFA. Apparently he turned down a host of club management jobs for that sinecure !
Daniel A Johnson
244 Posted 24/11/2019 at 17:18:49
Just because Arteta holds Peps ipad doesn't make him the right choice for us.

Big Dunch Ferguson the coaching genius has served under Moyes, Martinez, Koeman and SIlva. No ones shouting for him but people seem to think Arteta with zero managerial experience is the next messiah.

Stephen Davies
245 Posted 24/11/2019 at 17:19:04
Paul #242
And I would raise you Chris Wilder. He can certainly Motivate. He has usually worked wonders wherever he's been.
Ray Roche
246 Posted 24/11/2019 at 17:20:47
Now when I hear DYCHE I think Moyes!
Paul Tran
247 Posted 24/11/2019 at 17:21:32
Wilder is interesting for all those reasons, Stephen. Will he leave 'his' club for us?
Mike Gaynes
248 Posted 24/11/2019 at 17:21:49
After that post, Alan, I admire your courage in calling other people "absolute idiots".
Daniel A Johnson
249 Posted 24/11/2019 at 17:22:09
Any manager would look at our fwd line Tosun, DCL, Kean and Niasse and shudder.

You would need £200M just to fix that. Its criminal just how bad that is for an established premiership club such as ourselves.

Dennis Stevens
250 Posted 24/11/2019 at 17:22:22
Jim #237 - Wenger is the same age as Joe Royle & I suspect both their top flight management careers are in more of a winding down stage now!
Jim Wilson
251 Posted 24/11/2019 at 17:24:54
I would still ask him
He could do the Everton job on a 2 day week and piss on Silvas efforts. Of that I am sure.
Derek Knox
252 Posted 24/11/2019 at 17:26:27
Brent @ 233, I heard a rumour that Unsie has lot a bit of weight, maybe a reason you didn't see him.

Sorry latest news, and correction to the last statement he went for a toilet break. :-)

Brent Stephens
253 Posted 24/11/2019 at 17:27:39
Derek, more likely my eyesight! Or the poor floodlights at the Pure Stadium.
Alan J Thompson
254 Posted 24/11/2019 at 17:28:15
Ian(#229); That seems to suggest that Everton are so poorly set up that there is nobody to stand in for Unsworth, for whatever reason.
Surely Big Dunc wouldn't mind helping out or is that not in his contract?
Paul A Smith
255 Posted 24/11/2019 at 17:29:44
You sure about that Brent. As well as providing a sum that will always equal 4, do you believe Moshiri trusts Unsworth?

I'm only going from gut instinct + past evidence, that can definately equal 5 sometimes.

Paul Tran
256 Posted 24/11/2019 at 17:30:31
Maybe they want the U23s out of the way for the surprising new manager's unveiling tomorrow?
Derek Knox
257 Posted 24/11/2019 at 17:32:11
Ray @ 246, possibly the ginger connection?
Bill Gall
258 Posted 24/11/2019 at 17:34:08
The only comments I don't like are the ones that spark vitriol against Allardyce. Everyone new what we were getting in his style of play but he was brought in for 1 thing only and that was to get Everton back on track. he achieved this with Everton ending up in a reasonable position End of Story. On the question of Moyes he done a good job once but failed when he left and if they bring him back it will just be another help to one of the old boys.
Mark Guglielmo
259 Posted 24/11/2019 at 17:35:42
Mike @236 far be it for me to disappoint you.

Alan @241 can you pause your lunatic rantings for a second to explain to the class how or why Brands is at all culpable here?

I anxiously await your response.

Ray Roche
260 Posted 24/11/2019 at 17:38:28
Maybe Derek but it doesn’t bear thinking about.🤦🏻‍♂️
Derek Taylor
261 Posted 24/11/2019 at 17:39:44
A friend reminds me that Big Dunc is these days referred to as McCones. Says all !
Rob Halligan
262 Posted 24/11/2019 at 17:43:46
I thought Iain @ 229 was talking bollocks, but it seems it might be true. I've just received a text from someone saying exactly the same thing. My source has a lot of inside knowledge of EFC, he's told me things in the past which nobody knows about.


Mike Gaynes
263 Posted 24/11/2019 at 17:44:40
I received something similar late last night, Rob.
Paul Tran
264 Posted 24/11/2019 at 17:45:52
When do you start, Mike?
Iain Latchford
265 Posted 24/11/2019 at 17:46:11
Rob, I did say it might be rubbish. I was just passing on what I'd been told.
Paul A Smith
266 Posted 24/11/2019 at 17:46:13
Bill 259, the worst thing is only about 10 people ever think outside the box on here.

Most of what is posted is stuff a Daily Mirror writer could come up with but he isn't supposed to be looking at Everton as deeply as us.

In a dark drunken pub voice all I ever seem to hear in my head is, sack the manager, the suuuuubs, the tactics, the formation.

We always look for the obvious moan and go with anything that lacks substance.

Toffeetv do videos 2 years later on how Walsh or Koeman where to blame. 2 years later who is bothered. I asked at the time and got nothing but generic stick for it.

Look how quick the "Davies starting was forced on Silva" nonsense started to spread. People actually convinced themselves just to hate Silva more.

What is that about? Give everything hard evidence, its your club not Brands or Moshiri. Its about time people told them what we want not falling for everything they do then asking questions later..

We need to be a hard knowledgable fanbase again or they will ride us senseless.

Conor McCourt
267 Posted 24/11/2019 at 17:48:23
Ray- I'm talking about how I can imagine he would be for us in terms of structure and style of play and the type of job he would do. He has no trophies in China or Newcastle and I doubt he will pick any in the near future.

Daniel- Of course I am acknowledging it's a gamble but from everything you hear about City he is a huge cog in that wheel. Yes assistants don't always make great managers but to compare Ferguson who is learning as much bad practice to learning from Guardiola is a bit strange.

Even on this thread we are hearing about Dyche and Wilder and how they are up for every ball. Well so were Allardyces Bolton and Koemans Southampton before we appointed them.

I would have serious worries about Dyche especially as he has had a lot of Irish players so I keep an eye on them. They seem to do well for Burnley but if you take Jeff Hendricks he continually is so bad technically for his Country that there are Chamionship kids that look better in an Irish shirt.

Iain Latchford
268 Posted 24/11/2019 at 17:49:04
Are the bookies still taking bets? That's usually a good indicator.
Derek Knox
269 Posted 24/11/2019 at 17:49:16
Brent @ 268, spot on there mate, I don't believe we have any really bad players, okay Schneiderlin excepted, like you say a decent manager could definitely do something with the players we have.

Okay we have been unlucky, losing Gbamin, Gomes, Delph and Bernard, but that is what a squad is for.

Brent Stephens
270 Posted 24/11/2019 at 17:49:16
Paul "the worst thing is only about 10 people ever think outside the box on here".

Do you know the other 10, Paul?!

Paul Tran
271 Posted 24/11/2019 at 17:52:53
Ian, Skybet 1/2 Moyes, 16/1 Unsy, caretakers must be in charge for 19 games.
Jer Kiernan
272 Posted 24/11/2019 at 17:54:40
People please the players are underperforming nobody is doubting that but don't ignore the fact we have had a imbecile at the helm (some seem to be only realizing this week tought he was great post southampton but better late than never)

Unsworth will keep this side up and bring better results than what we have gotten he will I suggest drop the Schneids.Sigis if they are doing shite they will be hooked and a young lad like Benni will get a run

The squad are not world beaters but are good enough to be in top 6/7 just launch this clown he is out of his depth as he was at his former prestigious clubs eh hem Hull and Watford

I want Eddie Howe but anybody with some balls and a bit of imagination and flexibility will keep this squad in the Top half

Steve Guy
273 Posted 24/11/2019 at 17:54:59
It's quite simple: Kenwright is the rotten core in our Club and I cannot understand why he's been allowed to keep his shares and Chairperson role by Moshiri. (Why isn't Usmanov our Chairman?)

Billy Liar still wields far too much influence and will be prepared to ignore Moyes's awful stats since leaving Everton with his overly sentimental bullshit approach to running Everton.

If Moyes is the answer, then I don't know what the question is! Oh, maybe I do... are we an ambitious club? So, if Moyes is Bullshit Billy's answer to the question, then the answer is by implication a resounding "No".

Paul A Smith
274 Posted 24/11/2019 at 17:55:40
"About" is a guess Brent. I probably over exaggerated. Its hard to remember everyone who got ripped for going against the grain and asking why Brands didn't get us a centre half or attacker.

Conor McCourt might be a better name checker than me?

I just remember a few told to "just be happy" no pleasing some blah blah. "Brands knows more blah blah. Just like they were told under Walsh, and that is my point, same old same old in general and we come full circle don't we?

Paul Tran
275 Posted 24/11/2019 at 17:55:49
Sorry, caretakers must be in charge for 10 games.
Derek Knox
276 Posted 24/11/2019 at 17:56:30
Paul @272, to quote you: "In a dark drunken pub voice all I ever seem to hear in my head is, sack the manager, the suuuuubs, the tactics, the formation."

What else has Silva offered other than not been able to capably manage the basic three important ingredients for a successful side?

It is little wonder that people say the same old things, because maybe, just maybe, they are right!

Iain Latchford
277 Posted 24/11/2019 at 17:56:39
Paul, but can you still get odds on Silva being sacked, rather than the next manager?
Derek Taylor
278 Posted 24/11/2019 at 17:57:18
Paul, why are you so critical of your fellow TWers? None of us aspire to be anything other than Evertonians chatting in a 'website pub'. Your air of superiority is offensive!
Mike Gaynes
279 Posted 24/11/2019 at 17:57:42
Paul #266, as soon as I dye my hair ginger.
Paul Tran
280 Posted 24/11/2019 at 17:59:26
2/5 Ian.
Mark Guglielmo
281 Posted 24/11/2019 at 18:00:48
I'm still waiting for someone, anyone, to explain to me where Brands is at fault.
Paul A Smith
282 Posted 24/11/2019 at 18:02:32
To the 2 Dereks, on these matters the same old answers appear. That is why.

Maybe I just admire the ones who think that after 3 full time managers there has to be more to it. Apologies. And its not just ToffeeWebbers its the whole of social media.

And I don't mind my views being ripped either if some good comes from it.

Ole was sacked on here 5 mins ago? That still a belief?

Mark i am sure it has been mate. Buying Iwobi when we need a Centre Back is one fault or is that logical?

Nobody is saying sack him just hold him accountable too.

Mike Gaynes
283 Posted 24/11/2019 at 18:06:57
Mark #281, of course. He didn't sign Zouma and Vardy. So he clearly doesn't know what he's doing. Easy.
Oliver Molloy
284 Posted 24/11/2019 at 18:09:38
Excellent from Lyndon once again and it's probably nailed on Moyes will indeed come in if Silva gets the sack and I predict Tim Cahill will not be far away!

But don't you think our Director of Football is already cast in a very poor light?

Paul Tran
285 Posted 24/11/2019 at 18:14:07
Silva now 1/4 next manager to leave.

I had 6/1 & Spurs sacked Poch. Bastards!

Mark Guglielmo
286 Posted 24/11/2019 at 18:16:35
Oliver @285 "But don't you think our Director of Football is already cast in a very poor light?" - By Moshiri putting up the pretense that he was going to allow Brands to own the managerial question? If so, I agree. If not though, in what way?
Ray Roche
287 Posted 24/11/2019 at 18:17:59
Careful Mike, wishing for a teenager might get you on some sort of Offenders list. Not Prince Andrew in disguise are you.
Alan Smith
288 Posted 24/11/2019 at 18:18:38
Tell me were I'm wrong then mike 248

I have nothing against moshiri but I cant see the sense in hero worshipping the man.

Dof system is the problem and I stand by every fact I've said.

7th highest wage bill now, 7th highest under bk.

Prove me wrong Mike. And if the system is broken like I suggest tell my why they next guy. Even if its pep wont have the same problems.

No one tells the truth on here. All got favouritism or bias.

For example. People booed the substition of sidibe yesterday. He was stinking the place out. And how is booing going to help the team.


Again mike find something I've said thats factually incorrect.

Derek Knox
289 Posted 24/11/2019 at 18:25:36
Paul @ 282, in all fairness to Brands, and I have posted thison here several times, that he was told by Chelsea, they would NOT consider either loaning or selling Zouma, till at least next season.

But they did agree to let Fikayo Tomori come on loan till next summer, the lad was just about to sign, with 24 hours or so left in the window, when David Luiz rocked the boat and defected to Arsenal.

The potential Tomori deal was nipped in the bud, there and then, and attention turned to United's Roja, who did go to Finch Farm, but United couldn't agree terms and pulled him out of any deal.

That unfortunately was on Deadline Day with an hour or so to spare hence no-one in that particular position was recruited. As far as a Striker is concerned there were few around who were available hence the acquisition of Iwobi, who can act as a striker if called upon, but never deployed by Silva in that role.

Also in defence of M Brands, he could not possibly have predicted, or be responsible for injuries to Gbamin, Gomes, Delph or Bernard, all fairly key players, although they have had their hot and cold moments.

Mike Gaynes
290 Posted 24/11/2019 at 18:26:21
Ray #289, not a bit of royalty about me, but in fact I am very distantly related (through my grandmother's family line) to the Prince's perverted pal Epstein.
Ray Roche
291 Posted 24/11/2019 at 18:27:41
Paul Tran
292 Posted 24/11/2019 at 18:27:52
Silva now 1/5 next to leave.

Unsy now 5/2 from 16/1.

Liam Reilly
293 Posted 24/11/2019 at 18:28:37
And how Jesus weot when he saw the odds for the next Everton Managet.

Moyes at Evens and Hughes next at 7/1.

That would be it for me.

Mark Guglielmo
294 Posted 24/11/2019 at 18:29:11
Alan @289, I haven't seen you post any facts other than spending, which isolated by itself literally means nothing.

I will continue to wait for you to explain where Brands is culpable. Because it seems to me, that on the surface, you simply have disdain for the position of DoF. Not sure how you can blame Brands for his predecessor's spending, but if you've got a solid explanation, I'd love to hear it.

Derek Taylor
295 Posted 24/11/2019 at 18:29:23
I hear Graham Jones is 'on the brink' at Luton. Next stop Everton as Moyes No.2 ?
Ray Roche
296 Posted 24/11/2019 at 18:30:42
Derek @289
Good level headed post.
Ian Pilkington
297 Posted 24/11/2019 at 18:31:37
Lyndon, yet another excellent article. After venting my anger at Silva at Goodison yesterday and being incensed that he wasn’t sacked after last night’s (alledged) board meeting, I am living in hope that the board really do have a plan B and potential manager(s) are being sounded out before he is sacked no later than Tuesday.
Moshiri has spent millions trying to restore our club to its rightful place in the top echelon, but apart from choosing three unsuitable managers, he made the fundamental error in retaining Kenwright as Chairman, the man who has had a position of influence in the club for the entire length of the longest period in our history without silverware.
Who else but Kenwright would have been behind the over-promotion of Denise Barrett-Baxendale to CEO? And who else would recommend the ludicrous idea of Moyes returning as manager.
Until a replacement for Silva is appointed and any thought of relegation removed, I expect the new stadium will be further delayed.
Moshiri has to take action immediately. Silva still in charge next Saturday or Moyes back? Both options totally unacceptable.

Andy Crooks
298 Posted 24/11/2019 at 18:33:22
Mark @ 232 and Mike @236. Steve and his family have been moved to a safe house. Apparently torches and pitchforks were spotted near his house.

Seems to me that he has brought this on himself. Why would he come on here with well-thought-out, eloquent defences of a coach he admires?

Silva and Kenwright have had their part to play in this shambles but, if anyone should go, it should be Ferns. Overpaid and underperforming. Get rid.

Bill Gall
299 Posted 24/11/2019 at 18:34:15
Steve # 273 Moshiri bought most of B.K. shares and Usmanov has stated he was not interested. The only interest Usmanov may have is if Everton build their new ground, most probably some of his companies will be involved in the construction and materials.
Alan Smith
300 Posted 24/11/2019 at 18:35:05

Intetesting as your family tree is dcl and Richarlison have three each. I cant think of another side were at least one player hasn't got someone on four or more.

I cant think of another tiny, egostical keeper with more mistakes either. I cant think of a DOF ever improving a club in England?

Derek Knox
301 Posted 24/11/2019 at 18:36:01
Mike G, @290, did you ever get invited to a knees up, or a get together? 🎈😂😋
Paul Tran
302 Posted 24/11/2019 at 18:37:40
Unsy now 7/4. Amazing what rumours do to betting markets!
Mike Gaynes
303 Posted 24/11/2019 at 18:42:18
Andy #298, that's why I didn't call Steve out in this thread. Give him credit for his unflagging allegiance to the Silva cause (I even jokingly offered him an intervention).

No barrister could have offered a more eloquent defense for his client, and now that the jury has come back with its verdict and sentence is apparently being passed, I certainly don't blame him for not wanting to appear on the courthouse steps to take the slings and arrows from some of the congregation here.

We'll be here for him.

Mark Guglielmo
304 Posted 24/11/2019 at 18:42:31
Alan @300, I'm honestly having a hard time translating your posts at this point. But I want to understand your position, so could you please address:

"I will continue to wait for you to explain where Brands is culpable. Because it seems to me, that on the surface, you simply have disdain for the position of DoF. Not sure how you can blame Brands for his predecessor's spending, but if you've got a solid explanation, I'd love to hear it."

Not sure what Pickford has to do with Brands. Also not entirely sure what Richarlison/DCL having 3 goals each has to do with Brands.

Dave McDowell
305 Posted 24/11/2019 at 18:42:52
Andy Gray on BEIN discussing the internet rumour of Silva sacking saying his club sources saying Silva still our manager, he did follow up by saying “for now”.
Andy Crooks
306 Posted 24/11/2019 at 18:43:48
Nice one, Mike.
Julian Exshaw
307 Posted 24/11/2019 at 18:44:31
The names being mentioned to (eventually) replace Marco Silva do not fill me with any confidence whatsoever. I really don't get the sudden demand for Rafa Benitez. He was ok at Newcastle but couldn't stop them being relegated in 2016 and why did he end up in China if he's so highly rated? Yes, I know it probably had something to do with the millions he's being paid but is money his only motivation? It has nothing to do with this inflated 'small club' slur of a few years ago, he's just not Everton.
As for Moyes. On balance I think he really did do a good job after coming in 2002 but football has moved on so much, even in the last 5 years. As our American friends might say, I fear he is 'out of the loop'.
Howe is as yet unproven so that leaves Mark Hughes. If he is being considered would end any hope I have in our wonderful club.
Tony Abrahams
308 Posted 24/11/2019 at 18:45:42
Go along with everyone praising Jay woods post, and would like to tell Paul Hewitt, that I don’t hate Moyes, but what respect would there be left if he came back to manage Everton.

I’d do a better job than Moyes, and think that Evertonians have forgotten how great our club could be. Fuck me alls you have to do is make Everton pragmatic and the fans will keep you in the top half of the table, and if you can add a bit of quality, then I’m sure those fans would definitely help you to win a cup?

Moyes thought he’d hit the big time when he got the United job, but for a man who had been involved in football for a long time, he didn’t even realise that once he’d got the job he had to fucking win, probably because he’d been kidding the kidder, and doing a great job at plucky little Everton for years.

Everton, are ready to take off because the fans are fucking desperate, just get us a fire-starter (thanks Paul) and the fans will take care of the rest. Someone with heart, someone with pride, someone with desire and someone with fight, and someone who understands how fuckin* important the fans can be if you can just give them a team with all the above.

Rob Halligan
309 Posted 24/11/2019 at 18:47:39
Dave, "for now" is correct, but I think it's to be announced tomorrow morning.
Mike Gaynes
310 Posted 24/11/2019 at 18:47:41
Derek, you owe me a beer for that one.
Paul Tran
311 Posted 24/11/2019 at 18:49:12
Tony, if Unsy gets the caretaker and lasts 10 games I hope you got on at 16/1.
Paul A Smith
312 Posted 24/11/2019 at 18:49:17
Derek I agree mate the injuries have been a wreckage to us.

On Brands, is it wrong to say he should be the long term planner? That is how his role comes across to me in many aspects.

Therefore I believe that when at least a fornight before the window closed, Lampard stated he wanted to work with Zouma.

Now to me again (and I might be wrong) but a long term planner should realise Chelsea are not the only side in the world with Centre Backs and we need one. Force their hand or move on.

Maybe even force their hand by moving on but he done neither. The Zaha saga was a joke too. Sky's transfer leader told us all week he is not going to Everton plain and simple so we moved on to a 30 odd million pound player that wasn't needed because he also couldn't deliver a striker.

To even blame Silva for the transfers in my eyes is fruitless because he surely ( in fact, most certainly knew we need a striker as he did the year before) and he wanted Zouma so he obviously wanted a centre half.

Trying to provide evidence comes across arrogant and I hate it but thats how is looks to me and the reasons are there to fuel my point.

Brent Stephens
313 Posted 24/11/2019 at 18:49:21
Rob, is your "guess" that Unsworth will be announced tomorrow in tandem with somebody else?
Paul Tran
314 Posted 24/11/2019 at 18:51:28
Hear, hear Mike #303
Rob Halligan
315 Posted 24/11/2019 at 18:53:27
Brent, it's highly unlikely to be announced tonight, I could be wrong, but I did say I think it will be announced tomorrow morning. My source said he will talk to me later.
Brian Harrison
316 Posted 24/11/2019 at 18:53:46
Alan Myers has just tweeted that the Under 23 team are in for training tomorrow as usual. So the rumour about them being told not to come in is nonsense. I am sure there will be lots of these rumours over the next couple of days. Believe nothing till the club make a statement.
Paul A Smith
317 Posted 24/11/2019 at 18:53:54
I think Joey Bartons comments on Unsworth done him no favours at the time.. the poor side didn't help either but having a talkshow dedicate a good session to Unsworths appearance was damaging once sky picked up on it.
Paul Tran
318 Posted 24/11/2019 at 18:54:18
Alan Myers has just stated on Twitter that the U23s are reporting in for training tomorrow!
Dave McDowell
319 Posted 24/11/2019 at 18:54:41
Mark #218, I appreciate your appreciation; actually, I was writing it as a “Talking Point” but then thought it was just a vanity piece so threw it into Lyndon's “hot topic”.

You know us, Mark, the one sure thing about being an Evertonian is that it's an abundantly fertile ground for self-deprecation and gallows humour.

Mark Tanton
320 Posted 24/11/2019 at 18:55:28
Might they have been called into to be told they don’t have a manager?!
Iakovos Iasonidis
321 Posted 24/11/2019 at 18:55:33
Brent Stephens
322 Posted 24/11/2019 at 18:56:22
Rob, I'm really wondering if the announcement will include Unsworth alongside somebody else.
Stephen Davies
323 Posted 24/11/2019 at 18:56:53
Brian #316
Andy Gray also states his sources state Silva REMAINS the Manager ( at present)
Bill Griffiths
324 Posted 24/11/2019 at 18:57:07
Andy, Mike and others, Steve did post last night on Michaels match day/discussion thread (post 31).. H did comment that everything about yesterday was wrong, team selection, performances and substitutions.
He also commented that he didn't think Silva would be sacked but must be close to it as it would be possible to lose to Norwich with mitigating circumstances but there could be no mitigation about yesterday's defeat which he described as Pathetic.
I think he has probably been feeling too down to bother coming on site.
Paul A Smith
325 Posted 24/11/2019 at 18:57:16
Paul Tran, Rumours are pure comedy sometimes mate. Why would Unsworth getting promotion mean the Under 23s get the day off?

Has he got no other coaches taking sessions with him daily? Can they not run whilst crying or something like that?

Rob Halligan
326 Posted 24/11/2019 at 18:58:07
That's the bit I don't understand about all this? Why, if Unsworth was to take temporary charge of the first team, should the U23's be told to stay away? Surely John Ebbrell will take temporary charge of the U23's?
Derek Knox
327 Posted 24/11/2019 at 18:58:11
Mike G, @310, I will gladly buy you a beer when you come over next year, speaking of which, any dates yet?

Rumour has it too, that Steve Ferns will be out of the safe house by then, and ready to join us! :-)

Brian Williams
328 Posted 24/11/2019 at 19:00:38
Yeh where is Mr Ferns Derek?
Paul A Smith
329 Posted 24/11/2019 at 19:01:00
I have disagreed with a few of Steve Ferns posts but give the lad his due, he always trys to put his point across with strong points.

The lad is probably tired of it all and who could blame him?

Paul Tran
330 Posted 24/11/2019 at 19:01:15
Paul #325, they're wonderful, arent they? Didn't buy into that side of it. Amazing to see how Unsy's price dropped, though.
Mike Gaynes
331 Posted 24/11/2019 at 19:02:49
Bill #324, I'm sure that's true. I do feel for him.

Which won't stop me from teasing him about it at some point in the future.

But not now.

Tony Twist
332 Posted 24/11/2019 at 19:03:05
Well let's hope that the rumours aren't true that Unsworth will be taking over temporary or not. What is the point of a director of football if that is how Everton hope to do business. They seem to learn nothing from previous experiences and in the end getting big sam in.
Tony Abrahams
333 Posted 24/11/2019 at 19:04:02
I don’t want him Paul, thought the job was too much for him last time, but who knows because he must have learned a great deal from being in charge the last time?

I do want someone who understands the fans though because we are so underestimated, and yet the second most important part of the team.

Sorry for bringing our neighbours into this discussion but I have to if I’m going to stress my point, because do you think they would have beat Barcelona last season without that help from their crowd? and the first thing Klopp did when he got the Liverpool job was to make a real point of telling the fans how really important they are.

Fuck me I haven’t heard the Everton crowd singing a managers name for years, and even yesterday it wasn’t even “Silva out” it was just out, out, out, simply because he’s never had a connection with the crowd, which was the same with Allardyce and the same with Koeman as well.

Paul A Smith
334 Posted 24/11/2019 at 19:04:57
Paul its the mobile phone curse mate. Thats where it starts and becomes true because we trust our phones more than anything these days.

Rumours and trendy lines spread like fire. Lets hope the club have got a plan in place and the silly season is put to bed.

Tony Abrahams
335 Posted 24/11/2019 at 19:06:03
I’ve just heard it’s Moyes and Cahill, to start a rumour so if anyone wants a ticket just give me a shout, that’s if this news is true.
Paul Tran
336 Posted 24/11/2019 at 19:06:38
You're right, Tony. Last connection was Martinez in his first season. Or that night under Unsy when we beat Watford. Very important.
Joe McMahon
337 Posted 24/11/2019 at 19:08:06
As it's looking like Unsworth as some kind of interim (thought of 4th December is frightening), then can we please clear something up.

Benitez is not the Fat Spanish Waiter and it's not Fat Sam, coz our new (interim?) manager is a hell of a lot fatter than them two.

I'm still hoping for Rafa (but not gonna happen). I can see Poch at Man Utd

Paul Tran
338 Posted 24/11/2019 at 19:08:42
I'd like to think theyve learned from last time and will go straight to a permanent appointnent, but it is Everton!
Paul A Smith
339 Posted 24/11/2019 at 19:09:05
Tony I think Moyes would use big Dunc as his assistant? That is my gut feeling. He gave him his start and strikes me as the type to give him another chance?

Listening to Dunc the other night he is on a leash at the moment and wants of it. His passion and direction from the bench is limited where it showed under Allardyce.

Derek Taylor
340 Posted 24/11/2019 at 19:10:06
Has anybody got Doddy's number or live near the Freshy ? He will know if Moyes is 'our man'. Or, if he still follows our ruminations, perhaps he will post ?
Daniel A Johnson
341 Posted 24/11/2019 at 19:11:20
I hope Steve Ferns isn’t avoiding the forums I always value what he has to say even if I don’t agree with it.

Just because He was willing to stick his neck out on Silva doesn’t mean he should be vilified for it.

Aarron Stobie
342 Posted 24/11/2019 at 19:15:06
Bill Kenwright sat there, looking at the likes of Pochettino and Allegri, leans over to speak to Moshiri: “How about Moyes?”
Derek Knox
343 Posted 24/11/2019 at 19:18:33
Brian @ 328, presumably keeping a low profile, he did post last night after the match, as Bill @324 mentioned, I think he is genuinely upset, and I can understand that too.

He has defended Silva almost all through and taken brickbats for it on TW, but I feel that yesterday was possibly the final straw, and his loyalty has been found to be grossly misplaced.

As Mike G, said Managers and players come and go but we as fans are in it for the long haul, which feels like a life sentence for a sin we did not commit at times.

However I for one hold no animosity towards Steve F, or anyone else on TW for that matter, but in a perverse way admire him for sticking to his guns, and fighting Silva's corner, it is healthy for us all to have differing opinions, but not to fall out.

We are all supporting the same Club and team, although you would not think so at times, but as I have said before it is healthy to discuss and debate and differ too. Like my fiend John McFarlane Snr often says we all watch the same game but often see or interpret things differently.

Alan Smith
344 Posted 24/11/2019 at 19:18:34

They are all seperate complaints.

I have a disdain for a DoF having any input into first team afairs as the manager should more than capable and its his head on the line. And he is picking the team so needs control of transfers. If the DoF is ceremonial, ie, like Royle, or in charge of youth development, academy and sports science, then so be it.

As for Brands. The prick didnt get the manager a cb like the manager asked or, a ready-made No 9 we've been crying out for. Add into the fact we sold gana and bought no adequate replacements and he spotted Iwobi haha.

I've nothing against Brands personally I hope he succeeds. But let's be purely logical for a second.

Will PSV always have a period of success? Of course they will? Will there be loads of variables contributing to that success?The main one being they will always be in the top three most powerful clubs in Holland. But let's say you ignore that. And let's assume he's sensible and wise. But he's no soothsayer. He hasn't got a magical formula. He hasn't got access to players the big clubs haven't.

But Moshiri's standing up at an AGM saying:

"I'll buy an £80M striker but I just won't pay the wages. They want £180k a week"

He's only saying that because a DoF has told him "I can do this for you. I can sell your best players and replace them." I'd tell Moshiri that for £3-5M a year. It's a fantasy. If it works, Brands fucks off to Man Utd; if it doesn't, he goes back home better off than when he left.

I've never known a DoF to say go and buy that 30-year-old. Because it doesn't show off their talent spotting credentials. There are no short cuts and Brands knows this and needs to tell Moshiri it.

A proper football person would have said: "Pay Gana whatever he wants he cant go, break the bank for Zouma or spend massive on another centre-back, and go and get Giroud." That's just to stand still.

If you want progression, we need an £80m winger or a No 10 miles better than Richarlison as well.

Moyes was chief scout and shared the DoF position with Kenwright for all intents and purposes. No money and still done better. Moyes was a negative coach, like I'm not advocating him coming back but a DoF why? Weres it worked?

And why didn't we want Ranieri if we wanted Walsh? We knew Ranieri wasn't a messiah, didn't we? Walsh had fuck all to do with Leicester. It was a fluke season with a million contributing factors.

People find correlations everywhere, hence we have religion. Sheeple is all we are. We need to get past that when analysing things properly imho.

Is Brands cleverer than every Evertonian? He can't even buy a centre-back! He's all style charisma and can't see the woods for the trees himself.

Bill Griffiths
345 Posted 24/11/2019 at 19:19:56
Mike, I don't think it's because of any stick he would get that's stopped him either coming on site or posting. I think he was feeling that down he couldn't be bothered with it all.

Even before yesterday's game, I was of a mind that Silva be given more time. Before the game, I even posted on the live forum and matchday thread saying even though it wasn't a team I would have picked let's wait and see how things turn out.

Well, 15 minutes into the game It was obvious things needed changing urgently but nothing was done, then when he put Coleman instead of Kean on for Sidibe, that was enough for me to decide he has to go.

Conor McCourt
346 Posted 24/11/2019 at 19:21:21
Derek, Brands didn't get the left footed right attacker the manager pinpointed, he didn't get the centre forward, he didn't get the centre half, he sold our best player for £30 million and replaced him with one unproven player who would most likely have taken a year to get up to speed regardless of his injury.

You couldn't predict that Delph would get injured; well, I must be psychic as every season he does. We are told weekly that Silva has spent £120 million by the match reporters. Well, from last season thanks to the DOF we have lost the spine of the team and the only of his six purchases to be able to make an impact is Iwobi yet he clearly doesn't convince Silva for whatever reason and wasn't his man.

I understand that both Silva and Brands can be defended due to some rotten luck with key injuries but the seeds of this terrible season began with Brands and Silva has come up with no answers and continues to frustrate by playing unworthy players despite carrying them every week. That Norwich selection and performance was ridiculous.

I totally agree with Paul A Smith that we seem to be just jumping on the wheel with no clear plan and someone suggested that of the last five managers they all have a win rate of between 38-40% in the Premier League. if that's true our problems are much deeper than the man on the sidelines.

The club seems like it it wants to change the manager but by simply changing the face are we just jumping on the wheel directionless again until next year or the year after. If change is coming, let it be a revolution – not Dyche, Moyes or Benitez.

Rob Halligan
347 Posted 24/11/2019 at 19:33:19
Another reason for the U23s not to stay away from Finch Farm tomorrow, is because they are playing Fleetwood in the EPL cup, or whatever it's called, on Tuesday night. So they need to be at Finch Farm tomorrow.
Alan Smith
348 Posted 24/11/2019 at 19:37:52
#304 and everyone else

What Conor McCourt @346 said. Nail, head. If anyone argues with that, you must be typing in a lunatic asylum.

Thanks Conor.

Steven Astley
349 Posted 24/11/2019 at 19:38:54
Yet more "Seamus Heaney"-esque utter drivel from the drip that is Lyndon Lloyd.
Marcus Leigh
351 Posted 24/11/2019 at 19:40:58
Despite his faults I had a lot of time for David Moyes during his tenure at GP and thought he punched well above his weight with very limited resources and unbelievably low expectations. But a return now? Really? What kind of message would that put out there if we got him back again? And as for Mark Hughes... FFS think Fat Sam. Think groundhog day. If those really are the alternative options just keep Silva. At least it won't cost us another squillion quid in severance pay.
Don Alexander
352 Posted 24/11/2019 at 19:44:06
Like Daniel (#341), come back Steve Ferns!

On replacing Silva I have absolutely no idea who'd be best. There'll be a queue a mile long to get a few £mill p.a. on a three year contract or whatever, but who among them will have the ability to herd the pussies at FF into a galvanising team will be harder to find than the Holy Grail.

Twas ever thus whilst the Teary One's in the boardroom.

Dave Lynch
353 Posted 24/11/2019 at 19:45:11
Make of this what you will but I'm just stating what I've been told.

Very good mate, who's nephew plays for U23s has been phoned at home telling him not to turn in tomorrow for training.

Unsworth in temp charge of first team as Silva has been relieved of duties.

Don't shoot the messenger it's just what I've been told.

Pat Kelly
354 Posted 24/11/2019 at 19:47:02
From unworthy to Unsworthy? Could it be true? Likely, as a caretaker but nothing more.
Peter Neilson
355 Posted 24/11/2019 at 19:51:57
(349) it’s escalated when we’re bringing Seamus Heaney into the argument and using it negatively.
Richard Nelson
356 Posted 24/11/2019 at 19:52:44
The Board of half-wits are waiting for the outcome of Joey Barton's Court appearance before they make a decision...!
Joe McMahon
357 Posted 24/11/2019 at 19:54:02
Steven @349, that's your opinion (which is fine), but many people on this site (including me) respect Lyndon, and thinks he talks a lot of sense.
Brent Stephens
358 Posted 24/11/2019 at 19:54:36
Steven #349 "Yet more "Seamus Heaney" esque utter drivel from the drip that is Lyndon Lloyd".

Where did that come from?! Not sure I followed ALL of your arguments there.

Kim Vivian
359 Posted 24/11/2019 at 20:02:46
How about Moyes - to get them fit + Steve Ferns - to set them up.
Don Alexander
360 Posted 24/11/2019 at 20:04:48
The only way Lyndon "drips" is by dripping logic and magnanimity into us all. I applaud him.
Mark Guglielmo
361 Posted 24/11/2019 at 20:07:04
Alan @348, checking in from the lunatic asylum. I'll be as quick as I can as my time allowed on the laptop is short.

I don't think you, or the other Alan, or Conor for that matter, really know a heck of a lot about what the DoF is tasked with doing. You don't know what free reign - if any - he's given by Moshiri. You don't take into consideration the crap he has to try to move out in order to afford filling the spots we need. You don't know whether he's solely in charge of talent scouting, or if it's a shared responsibility. You don't know what asks have been denied, or what players couldn't be acquired for reasons X, Y, or Z. You don't know the relationship he has with what the manager wants (remember Silva himself said "our offices are across the hall from one another and we speak daily"). You don't know, or won't admit, the mitigating factors that prevented us from getting someone other than Zouma. You don't blame Silva, somehow, for the players Brands did buy, not making an impact while ignoring the fact that he'd have to, you know, play them first. You cast off critical injuries as if they're nothing.

You do know...well, I'm not sure. Maybe what's printed in the sports pages of the Mirror, or the Sun, I guess. You assume a lot though, that part is clear.

To the comment/question around "where has a DoF ever worked before." How about, everywhere else. Fifteen of the 20 EPL teams have one. Including City, Liverpool, Arsenal, the current league darling Leicester, and Tottenham. Moving outside the EPL, clubs such as Bayern Munich, Borussia Dortmund, Ajax, Juventus, Roma, Napoli, Barcelona, Real Madrid, PSG...I'll stop there. Perhaps we have a different definition of "work well," but apparently, the DoF is a highly valuable and regarded position amongst quite literally, the best clubs in the world.

Ut, sorry, the next lunatic needs the laptop. Until we meet again...

Tony Hill
362 Posted 24/11/2019 at 20:07:07
I should think that Lyndon will be delighted to be compared with Seamus Heaney.
Paul A Smith
363 Posted 24/11/2019 at 20:15:29
Mark, give it up mate. You won't see something you don't want to see. People give you genuine reasons and you keep asking the same question.

Mitigating facts (that you don't know about either) for not getting someone other than Zouma spells out how you missed the point.

You haven't a clue if all those clubs you mentioned have Directors of football sign players either.

You really believe PSG needed a director of football to scout Neymar and Mbappe. Or City to buy De Bruyne.

They obviously do have different tasks and agendas. Ours told us he was partly there to provide the coach with players to work with. He did but not the ones he wanted or needed.

Brian Williams
364 Posted 24/11/2019 at 20:22:34
Derek #343.

Thanks for that Derek. I too have nothing against Steve but, if you spend all your time lauding someone and pointing out (albeit very nicely) how he sees the big picture, and us lesser mortals don't then personally I think you should have (as my old mother used to say) the courage of your convictions and face the music.

I have half a kilo of very ripe tomatoes with Mr Fern's name on them and they're waiting to be thrown.

[(Disclaimer) The above post is meant (partly) in jest, having met Steve, and finding him to be a jolly nice bloke, I wouldn't dream of pelting him with half a kilo of tomatoes, not when you could add 'em to a decent chilli con carne.]

Stephen Davies
365 Posted 24/11/2019 at 20:34:37
Dave #353,

It's nonsense. They have a game on Tuesday.

Darren Hind
366 Posted 24/11/2019 at 20:36:10
Steve Ferns fronted up last night.

He was clearly as sick as the rest of us, probably even more so given the high hopes he had of Silva.

Steve has been the catalyst for some fantastic and fierce debates on here. He is entitled to sit it out for a couple of days. I hope when he does post, he comes out swinging.

Paul Tran
368 Posted 24/11/2019 at 20:42:30
Steve's one of the few people I've met on here and is a top bloke. While I find myself increasingly disagreeing with him, he always makes me think, for which I'm grafeful.

I look forward to seeing him on here again.

Steve Carse
369 Posted 24/11/2019 at 20:42:46
If it's to be Unsworth in charge at Leicester next weekend, I can only hope he has learnt from his trip there last time round when he did the one thing you don't do against a side with Vardy in it, and that's play a high line. At least, though, Kenny wouldn't be there to slice one into his own net.
Steven Astley
370 Posted 24/11/2019 at 20:43:04
Tony #362 - I rest my case.
Tony Everan
371 Posted 24/11/2019 at 20:44:21
After the Burnley game, when he could have been sacked, Moshiri must have commissioned a trusted lieutenant to procure a replacement.

If it is Unsworth taking over as a caretaker for a week or two, that could mean Benitez has been approached to come after the Chinese season finishes on 1 December.

Peter Neilson
372 Posted 24/11/2019 at 20:54:57
Steve Ferns has supported Silva and given his well argued reasons. One of my fellow match going mates still (just about) supports Silva and I’m not sending him to Coventry even though I want Marco gone. Steve adds some cracking pieces to this site and I hope he continues.
Derek Knox
373 Posted 24/11/2019 at 20:58:04
Darren @ 366 totally agree, except ' I am not sure about the coming out swinging ' bit!

I think deep down Steve knows he has many friends on here, and I have met Steve personally at the TW Get togethers, amongst many other regular posters, which I can wholeheartedly recommend attending for those who live relatively close. Having said that Andy Crooks has travelled from Belfast to attend before! Kudos to him for that.

Not sure when the next one will be, but there will definitely be one when Mike Gaynes comes over again from Oregon, to meet up probably March/April time.

A new Managerial appointment and some decent performances in the meantime falling on an appropriate Saturday/Sunday kick-off time could see another before then.

Paul Hewitt
374 Posted 24/11/2019 at 20:59:49
Don't you think if Silva had been sacked, Sky would be all over it. It bloody nonsense.
Darren Hind
375 Posted 24/11/2019 at 21:01:42
I said on another thread. If I was Rhino I would give this poison chalice a very wide berth.

No fucker could come in and turn this shambles around instantly, but you don't have to leave these pages to see the knives are already being sharpened for him.

People are screaming for the instant removal of Silva. Do they want to go into the next game with no one in charge ?
We are extremely fortunate to have someone who would be brave enough to step in and all some people can do is batter away before he has even been mentioned.

Unsworth didnt put us in this shit. He never has done. When you read about these morons who throw stones at the fire brigade, you shake your head in disbelief

Phil Martin
376 Posted 24/11/2019 at 21:01:54
On paper, we need a manager with proven Premier League experience, a proven ability to identify new players and make them better. Able to operate on a budget but able to get his teams playing decent football. A strong track record, Oh and he needs to be young, energetic and an Everton fan

It has to be Eddie Howe.

Rick Tarleton
377 Posted 24/11/2019 at 21:07:50
A superb summing up of the situation, Lyndon. Kendall first time round was successful, and he was inadequate on his returns.

Moyes was not successful; to me, he was barely adequate, and totally pusillanimous. He was not then a good manager and will not be in the future.

Mark Guglielmo
378 Posted 24/11/2019 at 21:10:33
Paul @363 "You won't see something you don't want to see. People give you genuine reasons and you keep asking the same question." Surely you see the hilarious irony in this comment, right?

Alan @367 tsk tsk, such language! Despite your hard-headedness and self-admittedly being dead-set against the DOF role, to which I provided several relevant counterpoints, I didn't stoop to your level. Interesting you bring up "defending a non-Blue." Errr, who do you defend then? They're all non-Blues, from Moshiri on down to the players. Can't have it both ways. I guess Kenwright is a Blue, for the fat lot of good that's done us.

I'll just chalk it up to being fed up with the current situation, and let you off the hook for being grumpy.

Tony Abrahams
379 Posted 24/11/2019 at 21:16:39
Steve Fearns will be back because he loves both Everton and football way to much.

I sometimes think Steve trying to make sense on T/W, must resemble Silva trying to make sense on the training ground, but only one of them will be financially better off from tomorrow, and Steve will be getting it rubbed in his face off a few, for years.

Richard Nelson
380 Posted 24/11/2019 at 21:19:19
Phil Martin # 376

Good shout !

Andrew Keatley
381 Posted 24/11/2019 at 21:20:36
I have no doubt that Steve Ferns will be back - and soon - and will have plenty to add to the discussions that are just around the corner. I expect he feels doubly bruised right now - about the state the club is in, and about Silva's inability to turn things round - but that's the nature of having opinions. Steve nailed his colours to the Silva mast, and on this occasion it looks very much like it has gone against him - that practice defeated theory - but whatever else he has to say about this great club and football in general will always be worth reading.

Mark G (various) - You must surely now be aware why some fans attribute some blame to Brands; Derek at 289 does a pretty decent job of outlining one argument as to how this summer's transfer activities left us short in a few key areas - Sam Hoare has been saying the same all season long, despite a lot of general support for Brands on here. Alan Smith (367) has laid it out pretty sharply too. In future a better system might be to spend more time reading other people's posts and considering their arguments rather than rushing to reply; quality not quantity and all that.

Tony Twist
382 Posted 24/11/2019 at 21:22:51
Moyes & Arteta or Moyes & Cahill or Moyes & Unsworth, not enthusiastic at all with any of those choices. I am afraid even the thought of just having the young apprentice of those choices eventually taking over just reeks of no ambition.
Mike Doyle
383 Posted 24/11/2019 at 21:26:28
At times like these, it's always good to have some conflicting views on TW.

I hope Steve Ferns is just having a well-earned day off. I would welcome the thoughts of Paul Ferry and Ken Buckley too if they still check in.

Andy Crooks
384 Posted 24/11/2019 at 21:29:09
Darren, @375. There is no way on earth that David Unsworth will turn his back. He will step up, get dog's abuse and be fucked off when it suits.

He cannot win but he will do his duty. He will not trot off with millions in compensation because he will be honoured to help his club.

Frankly, if I was him, I wouldn't touch it. But, God help him, he will.

Bobby Mallon
385 Posted 24/11/2019 at 21:30:52
James Hill @190 very true. Big Sam would have had us in the top 6 by now but some people think we have to play beautiful football I say we have to win games by any means
Conor McCourt
386 Posted 24/11/2019 at 21:31:11
Alan, as much as I agree with much of your argument, I think using the C-word to a fellow TWebber is a bit uncalled for. I honestly don't think Mark was trying to be offensive but was just a little flippant. These healthy debates are why we love both TWeb and our Godforsaken club.
Mark Guglielmo
387 Posted 24/11/2019 at 21:34:49
Andrew @381, fair play. IMO, and IMO only, pointing fingers at everyone masks the real issues. Can supporters lose patience with a manager after 16 mos/50 games? Can supporters lose patience with a DoF after 16 mos/3 transfer windows? The answer to both is obviously yes. But to me, it shouldn't be re: the DoF though. Brands has been very clear that he was brought on with a 4-year project in mind. It's rather harsh to judge whether it's been a success yet or not, no? Kenwright has been Chairman for 15 years. What have we won during this time? How many successful managers was he solely responsible for?

I suppose some of it comes down to how you rate the players Brands has brought on. Gomes? Hurt. Gbamin? Hurt. Bernard? Hurt. Richarlison? One of the only guys we have who can/is scoring even a little bit. Mina? Before yesterday many were lauding him as our to-date POY. Digne? Universally loved, or so it seemed. Iwobi? Literally one of our only offensive bright spots. Sidibe? A cheap loan until we see if we have something in Kenny. Kean? Let's not even go there until we have a manager who'll play him.

Brands had nothing to do with Pickford, Schneiderlin, Keane, Coleman, Sigurdsson, Tosun, Walcott, and to a lesser degree, Holgate, DCL, Davies. Koeman/Walsh spent a ghastly £250m the summer before Brands came on, mostly on players that don't deserve to be in the EPL, let alone wearing a Blues kit; does he not deserve some slack for trying to clean things up while at the same time building a team that can compete for years to come, not just months? I'm sorry but I just don't see how he's being blamed.

Those who point to "didn't get this," or "didn't get that" don't know why anymore than anyone else who doesn't work for EFC. The blame is based on assumptions yet I'm a c*nt for pointing this out. Ok then.

Conor @386 thank you. We may disagree you and I, but I'm not calling you naughty words. :-)

Andy Crooks
388 Posted 24/11/2019 at 21:37:56
Alan Smith, you need a cup of tea and a fig roll. I had too much wine last night and got all upset. Believe me, Alan, it's not worth the raised blood pressure.
Darren Hind
389 Posted 24/11/2019 at 21:39:49
My point exactly, Andy.

At any other club, he would be given 100% support from the fan base.

There's something twisted about this club, support is slowly being replaced by an overwhelming desire to be right.

I have nothing but respect for him, but he is a complete mug if he puts himself on the line for these people.

Tom Bowers
390 Posted 24/11/2019 at 21:48:57
Whilst 99% of us agree Silva has to go, it will be a huge debate on who comes in, but one thing for sure they need that change now. Almost every game that Everton failed to get points in is one were Silva said they didn't deserve to win and that has become monotonous. He is a loser!

I see many other teams such as Sheff.Utd. today who possess more intensity and desire than any Everton starting eleven this season and they are a promoted team made up of no-names with the only name player being a 37-year-old Jagielka.

Now, let's be honest: on paper Everton have the talent to match most teams but seem out of sorts as a team and individually which Silva and his aides have been unable to put right in any shape or form. Forget past managers and get someone in as nobody can be as ineffective as this guy.

Andrew Keatley
391 Posted 24/11/2019 at 21:56:24
Mark G (387) - I think that it is fair to criticise Brands on the basis that there are significant holes in our squad and recruitment is supposed to be one of his chief areas of concern and responsibility.

Yes, we've had injuries. Yes, some of the squad he inherited have continued to be poor. Yes, other people also are ripe for criticism – across the board, maybe especially the Board themselves. It's all guesswork as to who is precisely to blame for individual decisions.

What isn't guesswork is that we have a squad and a manager that do not currently seem fit for the purpose of finishing in the top 8 of the Premier League, and Brands absolutely has to take some of that responsibility.

As for Brands's recruitment, I'd say that Digne and Richarlison are the only ones who have been successful acquisitions and have probably increased in market value (and Richarlison's signing was probably as much down to Silva as any other factor). The others are largely still to prove themselves (some unfortunately due to injury) or have been found wanting.

Conor McCourt
392 Posted 24/11/2019 at 21:59:08
Ahhh, Mark, you have used a little smoke and mirrors there to fit your argument. Let's be clear part of the reason why I was so annoyed this summer was that I believed Brands or Moshiri or both had really let Silva down.

You made the excellent point that we don't know the finances and budget restrictions etc, so we can't be totally certain on culpability.

However, of those successful signings you mentioned above, they were all last summers for which Brands rightly got praise and you don't mind jumping on that. I was as gushing as any other Evertonian. In addition, he acted with class and a vision and clear strategy that impressed us all.

This summer for me was totally different and he has no doubt left us significantly weaker short term and the jury is still out on whether he has improved us at all in the long run. That will mostly depend on the success of Kean and Gbamin.

I am still hopeful that he will learn from a very badly planned window and will produce some atonement in January... whether that will be of use to Silva seems unlikely.

Mike Gaynes
393 Posted 24/11/2019 at 22:05:41
Andrew #381, I ascribe very little blame to Brands because I think in relative terms he's done a very fine job, particularly in comparison to his predecessors Walsh and Martinez. He has brought in new young talent and cleared out a substantial percentage of the deadwood in 18 months on the job – and a massive job it is, one that remains unfinished.

He has so far made no major mistakes – Silva wasn't his hire, and none of the players he has brought in has yet proved a blunder. Digne, Gomes, Richarlison, Mina, Delph, Iwobi, Gbamin and Sidibe are all (or should be) starters when healthy, which is a hell of a remake in less than a season and a half. His critics seem to hold him to an absolute standard for the part of the job he has not yet completed (since he didn't sign Zouma and a 20-goal striker in the last window, he's a failure), but I think that's unfair.

I believe he has done very, very well and I want to see his full body of work. I've said it before and I'll say it again, I think our best signing in recent years will prove to be Mr Brands himself.

Ian Edwards
394 Posted 24/11/2019 at 22:07:49
Interesting movement on the Paddy Power betting for next Manager. Eddie Howe was way down the list earlier this evening but has now come hurtling in to second fav at 11/2.
Ian Edwards
395 Posted 24/11/2019 at 22:10:02
Re Eddie Howe... still 16-1 on Skybet.
Len Hawkins
396 Posted 24/11/2019 at 22:16:44
Christ on a bike, as if things aren't at rock bottom, now people want to go the whole hog and mention Moyes's name — something that should never again be heard in the same sentence as Everton.

There will be someone somewhere sleeping under cardboard in a shop doorway who deserves a go as Everton Manager before Moyes.

Mike Doyle
397 Posted 24/11/2019 at 22:29:53
Dave Unsworth seemingly 2nd favourite behind the Moysiah with most bookies.

Meghan McKenna still odds on to win Celebrity X Factor.

Denis Richardson
398 Posted 24/11/2019 at 22:30:27
A lot of venom on here re the possible reappointment of Moyes, which I fully understand and agree with.

Can you imagine the atmosphere at his first game back in the dugout? How would the players feel playing for a manager a large part of the crowd cannot stand? He'd be on borrowed time from the off. Surely the hierarchy know there is not a lot of love at GP for that man. It would be stupidly of the highest order to reappoint him imo and would show the usual contempt the board has held for the masses for many a year.

I write the above then remember we put Allardyce in the dug out!

Of course Davey would jump at the chance - no other prem club would dream of touching him.

Brian Williams
399 Posted 24/11/2019 at 22:33:54
He would indeed Denis but only for 18 months minimum and not for the 6 months he's "allegedly" been offered......not that I'm giving that too much credence (through fear more than anything else). Sounds too much to me like a regurgitation of the Allardyce situation.
Jim Wilson
400 Posted 24/11/2019 at 22:35:38
Well said Len
Some people are actually debating who should be his assistant.
It is madness.

Meanwhile Liverpool have a manager who takes them to the top and the one they thought wasn't quite good enough has his team second.

We are opposites.

Kristian Boyce
401 Posted 24/11/2019 at 22:45:01
Denis @398, to put things into perspective the only jobs Moyes has been linked with recently were two Scots Prem clubs and Stoke.
Denis Richardson
402 Posted 24/11/2019 at 22:45:08
That right Brian? So old Davey will only come for min 18 months?

Jeez - I hope that's not the reason we're still with Silva, haggling over the length of contract for Moyes and not looking for anyone else!

There are loads of other managers out there who would be better, why are we seemingly prostrating ourselves in front of yet another looser. Have we not learnt anything from the Allardyce episode? I'm really beginning to question how Moshiri made his money and whether he's just a puppet for someone else - he doesn't seem to be very bright, not at least in the footballing world.

Mike Doyle
403 Posted 24/11/2019 at 22:46:43
I think I’m right in saying that Moysie was, in the past, a big fan of the work of EiTC.
As this seems to be the club’s main priority these days it should stand him in good stead.
Jer Kiernan
404 Posted 24/11/2019 at 22:46:43
We need somebody who will unite the club, Players fans board etc, this stuff matters more than any of the BS stats ( that up till last week proved Silva was doing a great job) Moyes and FSW (Benitez)will divide

Moyes is finished as is Benitez btw but more important Benitez is more concerned accumulating wealth and not arsed about the game anymore ( as proved by abandoning his family to move to 1984 for a fat pay cheque) shocking

Eddie Howe is the right man to deliver our Great Club to its shinny new stadium playing attacking football, He is within our reach, wont cost a bomb, wont need 200mil on signings, is in his prime as a manager , and is one of US

And he fucking DESERVES it, he has served his apprentiship and would be his dream job, Do the right thing and good things will happen

Eddies the man

David Israel
405 Posted 24/11/2019 at 22:58:06
Jer # 404, Eddie Howe also gets my nod. I'm sure a few people on here will readily remind us of his spell at Burnley, but that's water under the bridge. He has done magnificently well at Bournemouth, and not by playing it safe.

We should be bold!

Jer Kiernan
406 Posted 24/11/2019 at 23:04:20
@David 405
He ticks all the boxes for me, he has sustained a level of success with a small club some big club has to take a punt on him why not us,

Not only is it feasible but its not regressive /desperate liks some of the suggestions (Moyes, Benitez) or alice in fcking wonderland ( Pip Neville I have heard mentioned)

Eddies the man, he will have the goodwill of all in the game for me

Paul Tran
407 Posted 24/11/2019 at 23:09:11
Mrs Howe couldn't settle in NW England. Apparently hated it. Don't think Eddie will be coming here.
Mark Guglielmo
408 Posted 24/11/2019 at 23:09:13
Andrew @391 I don't have an issue with how you rate his recruitment in the least; that's just a difference of opinion than mine, though I would wager most, not all, but most, think pretty highly of Iwobi, Mina & Bernard. Kean has outright not been given a chance, and as we both agree, Gbamin & Gomes are injured. We do need to be clear that Brands came on after Silva was hired. Blaming Brands for Silva is like blaming Mercedes-Benz for Daimler-Chrysler. To me, the manager is at fault for not proving Brands recruitment to be better than you perceive. If Silva played them all together and they still sucked? Well ok then. But he hasn't. Yesterday's nightmare had 7 non-Brands signings in the starting XI. Conversely, the best we looked all year - the West Ham win - had 7 Brand signings (and Davies). These are facts, not my opinion.

Conor @392 you do have a fair argument. I was a bit higher on this past summer than you, but was also of the opinion that not securing a CB, or CM, was a big miss. I know I keep going back to this well, but surely it can't be easy to be buying and selling at the same time, to get the "perfect" squad. Maybe that's exactly what he's being paid to do, I don't know, but with BMD most likely clouding Moshiri's vision, I highly doubt Brands has £300m to play with every summer. I guess I'm saying, in short, he's doing the best he can with what he's been given. Could you imagine trying to move on most/all of those Koeman/Walsh signings, at even 50% of our transfer fee investment? And forget about getting EFC off the hook for their wages. The 6 guys I mentioned are on more than £500k/week pay. No team in the world is going to pay for that. It's like owning stock in Enron.

Maybe it'll look significantly better once we can actually play:

Sidibe Holgate Mina Digne
Gbamin Iwobi Gomes
Richarlison Kean Bernard

I might be too "rosy outlook" here but that is a side that screams top 6 without much issue. Now imagine adding 2-3 additional high quality parts. We'd be cooking with gas. Thank you for debating this like an adult.

Oh, but don't pin much hope on January's window. Brands doesn't like to spend then, presumably because sellers overcharge buyers to the point where they're really poor investments (see; Tosun & Walcott).

Jerome Shields
409 Posted 24/11/2019 at 23:10:10

Steve Ferns has always projected a viable long term plan for Everton. This is the only way Everton will ever progress and Silva was given a three year contract for this same reason by Moshiri. It was expected that there would be ups and down, especially with a basket case like Everton.

The essential ingredient of this plan was to have a stable management team to progress the plan. Silva in his first season seem to be gradually heading in the right direction, as Steve pointed out in his many posts, with supporting and detailed stats.

There have been glimpses this season that maybe the progress train could have been put back on the tracks on the field. Steve analysis counted on what could be immediately acted upon on the field of play. It did not propose to deal with the internal Management that could not immediately acted on, which he was right not concern himself with.

What has happened is that Silva has been overwhelmed and going by the Norwich game had given up. So all the positives of his career at Everton have evaporated pretty well over the International break.

Not only did Everton get beat by Norwich, but the necessary long term plan that Steve has promoted on ToffeeWeb with Silva at the helm, in my opinion correctly, is now in tatters and Everton are now at another crossroads that Steve Ferns never wanted them to be at. Which we all would agree with.

It is now necessary that Everton take the RIGHT road at this crossroads and continue on this necessary long term plan and the new Manager is fully supported in a way that Steve Ferns would correctly advocate, as he has always done throughout his posts and articles on ToffeeWeb.

Steve Ferns was correct in his assessments, but the capulation by Silva in the Norwich game was complete and the whole squad bought into it, with in my opinion with the help of the backroom staff. This would never be expected to happen against the positive sediments of Steve Ferns posts.

Steve Ferns opinion is still right, attacking his positive support of the Everton Manager who is responsible for the implement of this opinion is not.

Jer Kiernan
410 Posted 24/11/2019 at 23:21:09
@Paul 407
I have heard that before I am seriously hoping it doesnt stop us approaching Eddie, if she cant be convinced fair enough

@Jerome 409
I have alot of respect for Steve he puts alot of work into his posts and is a valuble member of TW, I am not about to start laying the boot into him, there is enough herd mentality on this site as is, but I feel that if you look hard enough you can find stats to support any arguement,

For me the Norwich results is last in a long line of last straws, I have watched more or less all of Silvas games and even if he scrapes some results in next 6 he is not good enough it is blatantly obvious to me, and no stats can convince me otherwise

Jerome Shields
411 Posted 24/11/2019 at 23:34:40

Steve stats where in support of a plan, now how it was be implemented, which was being his control. With Everton a plan was never going to be clear cut in implementation.

Andrew Keatley
412 Posted 24/11/2019 at 23:43:07
Mike Gaynes (393) - You can ascribe as little blame to Brands as you like, but this club is at least on one knee - if not two - so everybody surely carries at least some of the can. There are sadly a severe shortage of senior figures at this club - on the playing staff or backroom staff - who could be described as doing a "very fine job". That's the problem.

Mark G (408) - You're all over the place fella. After repeatedly asking for some sort of explanation as to why people might be being critical of Brands you now say "I was a bit higher on this past summer than you, but was also of the opinion that not securing a CB, or CM, was a big miss." A big miss? Can you see the lack of through-line in your argument? You were pro-Silva a few days ago, and now you're in the Silva out camp. I'm starting to suspect that you are actually just a computer programme built by ToffeeWeb to try to increase posts on threads...

Barry Jones
413 Posted 24/11/2019 at 23:45:53
Lyndon, well written. I hope that Kenwright and Moshiri have read the article and the responses.
John Kavanagh
414 Posted 24/11/2019 at 00:00:55
It doesn't matter a jot whether we have a DoF or not or, if we do, who it is while there is clearly interference from the Board. Silva was Moshiri's pick and was appointed before Brands so he cannot be blamed for the worst decision of the lot. Bill Kenwright has not taken a background role and has clearly interfered with individual transfer decisions - e.g. the return of Rooney. No one else, barring Kenwright, would have come up with the line about wanting Moyes and the Board's 'admiration' for Mark Hughes, first leaked to the Telegraph weeks ago.

Had Brands been involved in the Silva appointment I'd be among the first to be calling for his head. If, as a Board Member and DoF, he believes Moyes or Hughes is a sensible appointment I will want him sacked. But only after Kenwright is finally shoved out the door first.

It would be a measure of our leadership's gross incompetence if poor old Unsworth is being lined up to again act as caretaker weeks too late ahead of the worst December fixture list of any club. If he is being thrown to the wolves again he will have my total support whatever happens next month because none of it will be his fault.

Jim Wilson
415 Posted 25/11/2019 at 00:05:57
Jer Kiernan - a very strong case for Eddie Howe mate

I will take him ahead of most and most definitely the Treacherous one

Mark Guglielmo
416 Posted 25/11/2019 at 00:16:19
Andrew @412 not sure why you believe I was "pro Silva" a "few days ago" but perhaps you're practicing selective reading. Did you bother to read my reply to you when you accused me of that the first time? Based on this latest comment, I'll go with no. I'm not sure how an admission that there were 2 misses in this past window negates the 300 other things I've said in support re: Brands (none of which you bothered to address, mind you), but I'll refer back to selective reading. If you're simply trying to prove you're right on the internet, do better. To continue your school of thought, you're using a 3rd generation iOS when the 9th generation is available, fella.

A computer program

Steve Brown
417 Posted 25/11/2019 at 00:26:49
If Steve Ferns wants to suffer in silence that is up to him - don’t blame him actually.

Things are going to get far more hostile on here if Moyes is hired, even on an interim basis. Half of the fan base despise him, so if the club wants to pull this club together go look elsewhere.

Alexander Murphy
418 Posted 25/11/2019 at 00:33:25
When DM cut his slippery deal with Man Utd, I was glad that we were rid of the traitorous grinning skull.

He's crap.

On here I recall a poll of possible candidates for potential managers.

What I also recall was a thread called something like,
"My No ! No !! NO !!! List".
I think that's worth revisiting.

BTW, I heard down the pub tonight from a bloke who knows a coach of some description (apparently) at FF that Marco is deffo a gonner.

Make as much or little of that as you wish, personally I expect that to be ratified by lunch tomorrow.

Jer Kiernan
419 Posted 25/11/2019 at 00:36:56
@Jim Wilson 415
I hope the board are at least considering him, I think somebody touched on this before but the fact the bookies put in Moyes and Benitez as favourite is a DAMNING inditment of our club and its so called ambitions or at least how we are percieved

If I was Mosh I would see this as an insult, and at least make an appointment that does not stink of desperation

Eddies the man ;)

Andrew Keatley
420 Posted 25/11/2019 at 00:46:34
Mark (416) - I did read your reply. From what I remember you said you were in the "give him more time" camp, from which I've extrapolated that you were still pro him. I've been actively wanting him sacked for over a month now, and would have been happy to have seen him gone after the Burnley defeat at the beginning of October. Apologies if I interpreted that wrong, but that was my takeaway message. Point me back to that post and I'll re-read it and assess whether I originally did so selectively.

As for Brands, you said (281) "I'm still waiting for someone, anyone, to explain to me where Brands is at fault." And then you've said in (408) that you were "also of the opinion that not securing a CB, or CM, was a big miss." I can join the dots for you if you want me to, but I really shouldn't have to.

Mark Guglielmo
421 Posted 25/11/2019 at 02:15:28
Andrew, you're only reiterating half of what I said re: Silva. Yes, I have long advocated for giving him more time... until summer when we have better replacement options and don't have to deal with yet another crap caretaker "solution." Not that I want Silva to stay because he deserves more time on merit. I've never once said that. Well, not this season at any rate.

Re: Brands. Ok, I will concede that in asking for where Brands is at fault multiple times, and then listing the ONE reason I felt he was at fault, that it can be interpreted as inconsistent on my part. Kind of. What about all the reasons, of which there are many, I listed as to why he's not at fault? Those continue to be ignored. So he's batting. 950. Damn the man for not batting 1.000!!

Ed Prytherch
422 Posted 25/11/2019 at 04:24:54
A little bird told me it will be Stevie G with Wayne as his assistant.
Clive Rogers
423 Posted 25/11/2019 at 04:44:14
Ed, must have been a dead parrot!
Mick Davies
424 Posted 25/11/2019 at 05:15:30
Moyes!!! FFS is that the best they can come up with? That ungrateful shit was scheming to leave this club behind our backs, after all we'd done for him, then started poaching our players and treating us with utter contempt when he landed his dream job. We had managers like Bingham and Lee who were achieving more than that ingrate, yet were sacked with less than a 3rd of the time he got, so please previous posters, don't look at him with rose tinted specs, he become a multi-millionaire through Everton, but has achieved nothing in nearly 2 decades as a manager, even after inheriting the PL champions. . I'd sooner have Unsworth than Moyes
Ian Edwards
425 Posted 25/11/2019 at 07:17:31
If Dreary Dave returns I'm done. Oh how we laughed when we chanted Stuck with Moyes at Old Trafford. Then we sacked the Manager that got us 72 points and two semis. We sacked the Manager that took us from relegation to 8th( yes-Allardyce). I would sooner have Allardyce than Moyes or Silva. Everton FC. The club that commits suicide over and over again.

11 years we had dreary one up front nick a goal and hang on football. No away wins at big clubs. Not even a penalty win or own goal off someone's arse. Nothing.

I despise Moyes. I despise his football and if he comes back it's finished for me after 40 years. Finito. End. No more. Divorce.

Paul A Smith
426 Posted 25/11/2019 at 08:03:16
Mark I don't know how many people have to explain to you what a mistake is. It doesn't mean Brands should go to jail or we don't acknowledge any good work that's for sure.

You even agree to an extent then argue against your own agreement.
We are talking Marcel Brands here not some boy band member, (though he does look a bit of a Simon Cowell)
He will make mistakes like every human. Its just important every mistake at our club ia accountable.

Derek Knox
427 Posted 25/11/2019 at 09:40:38
Brian @ 399 and others, I think it would be folly and a total show of further insensitivity from the Board if they did go ahead and appoint Moyes, even in a firefighting role like he did at West Ham.

Following on from that any temporary appointment should only be that and have a Contract which is written accordingly. (ie, 6 months)

I just didn't get the Allardyce appointment from the off, but to give an eighteen month Contract when it was pre-conceived his remit was to get Everton to safety, but to make the Club responsible for another Compensation Bundle smacks of total irresponsibility.

David Midgley
428 Posted 25/11/2019 at 10:14:54
Pep, helped by Arteta has been very successful.
Tonto was great with The Lone Ranger,on that
basis should Tonto be our manager?
Frank Lampard had an apprenticeship in charge before he went to Chelsea.
I would have liked to have heard some comments from the leader of our club, DBB about the situation we are in.
Everton former players 'get' Everton. Yes. Failure and lack of ambition and small mindedness.
The 1950's film The Smallest Show on Earth is
Everton to a Tee.
Moyes left six years ago. He is out of the game in more ways than one.
Mike Dolan
429 Posted 25/11/2019 at 12:18:50
What is it about any of the managers mentioned above that would be able to field a team (from our currant bag of mercenaries ) that would play a reasonably attractive game of football and keep our head above water until the end of the season. Without a midfield I would guess none of them. I think the movie here is called waiting for Simone but in the interim why not give Arteta a shot.
Silva has made mistakes but let's face it when a club is in transition to not be able to field even one of your first choice midfielders would make it difficult for the best of the best managers.
The crowd has got its way now it doesn't seem to know which path to lead us. It never does.
Tom Bowers
430 Posted 25/11/2019 at 12:26:43
I cannot believe Silva is still here !!!!! Talk of Moyes is ridiculous.
These are the darkest days at Everton I have known for many, many years with fruitcakes running the show.
Conor McCourt
431 Posted 25/11/2019 at 12:59:17
Mike Gaynes 393- why do supporters of Brands continue to move the goalposts? The debate is whether Brands is culpable for our poor season where as you are speaking about the job he has done over 18 months and will do in the future. You are debating that with yourself only,no-one is questioning last summers business or whether he will be good in the future or whether we want him here.

The question is one of accountability and the focus is on his impact on the squad from last season to this.

You start your defence by saying he has been much better than his predecessors Walsh and Martinez. Firstly in the case of Walsh any DOF in world football would do a better job as would his granny probably. Martinez never had that role and never had Moshiris outlay so to compare those is fruitless as it's like saying City's DOF are better than Sheffield because they got Aguero and Utd only got McGoldrick.

I will actually use your own arguments for promoting his work over 18 months and apply it to the debate at hand

1- no major mistakes:
a] he brings in 6 players for 120 million of which only Gomes is a GUARANTEED starter if all were fit. The coach started one of the six in his last game so you can argue how many have been a success and that was probably a reflection of Colemans deficiencies than Sidibe's impact. People will quite rightly point to two really unfortunate injuries but many of the six are quite injury prone regardless and Gomes and Delph were already on the sick list this season.

b] he sells our best player for 30 million and even if Gbamin turns out to be Claude Makele it would have taken a minimum of 6 months to get up to the speed of the prem. The manager wanted Doucoure to help lessen Gueyes loss and not severely weaken the spine of the team.

c] he is unfortunate not to acquire the rock of our defence from last season but is liable for not replacing him leaving two similar centre backs who won't work together and a young centre back who West Brom had thought too weak to play that position only a few months earlier. He also didn't retain Jags as any decent strategist would until the Tomori deal was finalised.

2-bringing young talent:
Out of the 6 he brought in only 3 were younger than 25 the age range he highlighted previously. 3 young talents in Henry,Vlasic and Lookman were let go as well as a few with promise like Robinson. Had Jags not left the age of the squad would have went up.

3-clear deadwood:
The only player Brands was able to shift who didn't have a contract and is off the books was James McCarthy. A highly talented injury prone international who had seen better days...his replacement Fabian Delph, you couldn't make it up.

In summary Michael you may ascribe no blame to Brands but I bet Silva in his farewell speech will fairly let rip.

Steve Ferns
432 Posted 25/11/2019 at 13:06:19
Conor, Brands needs time to do his work and be assessed. No doubt he has made mistakes. Certainly Silva will feel short changed. Brands must be allowed to hire the next manager. The board should let him get on with it and stay out of it. If Brands' man is shite, then you can begin to really point fingers.
Paul A Smith
433 Posted 25/11/2019 at 13:10:13
Conor its called pre concieved poison mate. We have seen it with Kenwright for years.
Obsession and blindness. No doubt the man was a fool and soppy as a sack (as Delboy would say) but the haters can't have anything he done right.

Pick up on anything good that Jamie Redknapp says and someone will say behave he talks shite. People become obsessed and can't grasp that even a loon, a fool or a liar can say something true or correct.

This is where we are with Brands. Lots of blokes fell in love with his good deals last season, combined with that lovely suit and cool dutch voice, so now he can do no wrong. The same people who want the manager to admit his errors won't admit Brands has made mistakes

This is all pure Everton and it will continue forever while we leave out lots of details.

Conor McCourt
434 Posted 25/11/2019 at 13:16:32
Steve good to hear from you- its not about pointing fingers, I see shared culpability. Silva has been left as the sole villain for our current plight. I'm just highlighting that there have been other factors at play for where we are. I have no doubt that Brands privately will be taking responsibility and as I say this window may long term be seen as a success depending on how Kean and Gbamin progress.
Paul A Smith
435 Posted 25/11/2019 at 13:36:21
Arsenal, there for the taking, hanging on in the spot above us, dropping points everywhere and got the worst premier league squad they have had to date.

So what do we do, buy some shite from them, one we didn't even need. Same as Lukaku, Mancs one place above us and we sell our only asset to them.

What a message. Now we all know he wanted to leave before that comes back at me but a side wanting to go places would have said, fine big baby, but you won't be going to our nearest rivals. See your witch doctor.

Not this club though.

Joe Bibb
436 Posted 25/11/2019 at 14:58:27
To all the Moyes devotees,do you think Norwich would want Moyes, they are bottom of the League?
Paul Davies
437 Posted 25/11/2019 at 15:30:49
"Over the last decade Everton had been going backwards, but they are on the front foot now and it is great to see such a young, energetic team."
Unfortunately that was the Guardian's comments about the woman's teams win over spurs at the weekend. So I am saying in around about way there must be change, my preference would be for Benitez, I believe that he would get us energised, organised and will give us hope that we are sadly lacking at the moment.
Mark Guglielmo
438 Posted 25/11/2019 at 15:46:01
Paul @426 the first person who gives me a good reason will be the first. So to answer your

Saying that I've admitted he made one mistake as evidence that he should be blamed for everything is, I don't even have the words to describe what it is. Please re-read by explanation to Andrew @421. The entire comment, not the one sentence that supports your narrative. Once you do, please answer why that one mistake negates everything else I've noted multiple times over.

If you're suggesting that he has to be 100% perfect, then I will suggest that you're not being realistic.

In an analagous example, what are your feelings about Kenwright? How about Moshiri? Do you have a 100% perfect manager you'd like to appoint? Since every mistake counts and you're striving for perfection, I'd like to know if this is a blanket expectation, or just for Brands.

Mark Guglielmo
439 Posted 25/11/2019 at 16:01:22
Conor @431, most of what you're laying at Brands feet is based on presumption that it won't pan out. By your own admission we simply don't know. Much of what I've said is also based on presumption that it will pan out. The only fact is that neither of us know. You're pessimistic; I'm optimistic.

There's one huge aspect to your position that appears to be a rather large inconsistency though. This: "he brings in 6 players for 120 million of which only Gomes is a GUARANTEED starter if all were fit. The coach started one of the six in his last game so you can argue how many have been a success..."

Guaranteed by whom, exactly? Gbamin was brought in to start. Iwobi was brought in to start. Delph, like it or not, was brought in to start. Kean was brought in to eventually start. And since you did bring up Gomes, which c'mon, was a 2018 acquisition, then Mina, Bernard & Richarlison were all brought in to start. You used Silva not starting them as evidence that they were bad signings, but if I've read your tea leaves properly, you trust Silva's decision-making ability about as much as you trust Brands. So why does Silva not using these players matter one bit when you evaluate Brands? You agree that Silva's an idiot and a manager with a brain would absolutely be using them, no? And again, 3 of them are injured as you're aware.

When Silva starts the Koeman/Walsh guys, like vs Norwich, we get boring, insipid football and we lose. When Silva starts Brands signings, we get creative, inspired football, and at least have a chance of winning. Our worst game: Norwich; 7 Walsh signings. Our best game: West Ham; 7 Brands signings.

Stan Schofield
440 Posted 25/11/2019 at 17:01:15
Mark@439: Spot on. The Brands signings have clearly been good and conducive to effective and entertaining football, which we have seen under Silva, albeit too infrequently.

There have been a number of confounding factors, namely injuries to key players, terrible officiating against us, players who were in-form last season being out-of-form so far this season, losing key players, and failing to sign needed extra players. These factors really make any assessment of our current situation, in terms of criticism of the current manager or the chances of a new manager remedying matters, largely futile.

People seem to be suggesting every Tom, Dick and Harry as a potential new manager, without any real substantially convincing argument. It just looks like the usual panic discussions and relegation talk typical of the last 5 years.

Mike Gaynes
441 Posted 25/11/2019 at 17:09:00
Mark #439, top corner from 30 yards. Well stated.
Ray Said
442 Posted 25/11/2019 at 17:09:07
How many of the top five clubs will be competing with EFC to get Moyes in?
How many of the top ten, fifteen ANY other PL club?
Conor McCourt
443 Posted 25/11/2019 at 17:31:35
Mark 439- what people are saying who are being critical of Brands is on his performance this summer and whether it has impacted our current position. My argument is that even had Gomes and Gbamin been fit all season we began this campaign in a much weaker position than we finished the last. That is Brands responsibility.

The spine of the team was based around the Keane/Zouma partnership and the Gueye/Gomes axis. Both of these strengths are now weaknesses and had it not been for Holgate and Davies stepping up to the plate we would be in real trouble and that's nothing either Brands or Silva can take credit for.

I was speaking about guarantees with relation to their success. All 6 were obviously bought to play but only Gomes has cemented a role though Gbamin has been injured. The youngsters are the ones whose performances have forced themselves into the team yet the new arrivals haven't. I agree Iwobi deserves to play on form and he's been decent but for 35 million you want a little more.

I disagree regarding Delph. I believe he was brought to provide cover especially in Gbamins settling in period which was flawed considering how injury prone he is.

By the way Mark you are making assumptions that are incorrect by saying that I have said anyone was a bad signing except for Delph and that is due to his injury record.

The season is halfway through so your arguments about Kean and Gbamin coming good are an irrelevant discussion. I'm hoping Kean will still be a superstar as well as Gbamin. But that hasn't helped our season so far which is what the discussion is about.

I don't think Silva is an idiot but I do think he should be under pressure for his performances and I'm losing faith but that doesn't mean Brands should not be called to account. Comparing Brands signings and Walsh signings is smoke and mirrors again even if it is a point well made.

Conor McCourt
444 Posted 25/11/2019 at 17:44:55
Mark last season under this manager we finished 8th. This year we are really struggling. Whats changed is that 2 key players were lost and 5 new ones have arrived.
Jonathan Tasker
445 Posted 25/11/2019 at 17:48:17
Brands had a year to prepare for replacing Zouma.

He failed

James Hill
446 Posted 25/11/2019 at 17:58:07
Lyndon, sorry mate I must have misenterpreted this statement

"Indeed, the only way seeing Moyes walk back through the gates of Goodison as manager would be remotely palatable to the majority of Blues would be if it came with a cast iron, irrevocable guarantee that it would only be until the end of the season and no more."

As for Moyes saving us as from relegation nothing in life other than tax and death are certain. As for using Sunderland as a measure well that speaks itself it was almost an impossible task at the stage he took over. Probably a dumb move on his behalf.
It's the irrational hate for a man did a very good job for us that I find dispicable.

Barry Thompson
447 Posted 25/11/2019 at 18:16:48
David @ 428
Well mate we’ve tried enough cowboys maybe it is time to give the Indians a go
Steve Ferns
448 Posted 25/11/2019 at 18:18:12
Barry, that was a great post!
Barry Thompson
449 Posted 25/11/2019 at 18:24:09
Trouble is Steve we’ll end up with Pocahontas instead of Pochettino
Paul A Smith
450 Posted 25/11/2019 at 18:42:36
Conor I would give up mate he is being ignorant to every point.
If he thinks we didn't need to replace Zouma and buy a real striker as priority and also a midfielder ready to replace Gana, rather than one who needs a good deal of time, he must be mad.

If he doesn't believe they were priority positions I don't know how he could even think about talking Everton. Brands obviously didn't prioritise those positions.

And once again I praised him the year before for getting the left back we needed of good quality and the centre half needed to fills Jagielkas space.

This year he can kiss my arse. The quality brought is lower standard than last years signings and what we lost this year, we didn't need a rebuilding job after a fantastic run of form to finish the season.

Mark Guglielmo
451 Posted 25/11/2019 at 19:14:41
"Conor I would give up mate he is being ignorant to every point.
If he thinks we didn't need to replace Zouma and buy a real striker as priority and also a midfielder ready to replace Gana, rather than one who needs a good deal of time, he must be mad."

Speaking of mad, Paul, I'm now questioning if you can comprehend what I've said, at least 3 times now.

Please show me where I said any of the above. And then go address every single other point I've asked you to multiple times now. And maybe answer the questions I specifically asked you (politely) to. Your own words were "every mistake counts" so I'm still left wondering if you apply that mandate to multiple other aspects of the Club, or just Brands.

We are definitely on the same page for one thing though, giving up. Cheers, enjoy your supper.

Lyndon Lloyd
452 Posted 25/11/2019 at 19:57:54
James (446), that was an observation based on the overwhelming reaction to Moyes on here and on social media and on past polls conducted on this site. It wasn't a declaration on behalf of all Evertonians. Take a look around – the anecdotal evidence is that he would be a massively unpopular re-appointment.
Danny O'Neill
453 Posted 25/11/2019 at 21:13:46
I think given the reaction here and on other forums / debates, those who support a Moyes reappointment cannot deny this will be devisive.

I think it's a backwards step. My opinion has been based on football managing ability. He served us well and is what we probably needed from 2002 until about 2009. To appoint him now is unimaginative, lacks ambition and a step backwards.

Notwithstanding his dreadful record since leaving Everton, in honest, when we needed / wanted to push on, he wasn't the person to do it. He doesn't have winning mentality.

And no hate on my part James, I'm just judging him on his ability and record. Again, to repeat myself, I was a massive supporter / defender for the majority of his reign. But, I don't want to go back to that. I want us to push on beyond the 7th / 8th label we've have for the majority of his tenure and those after him. That's surely why we're all frustrated so why would we go back to accepting that level of mediocracy. Again, no hatred, that's just Moyes' level.... at best.

David Pearl
454 Posted 25/11/2019 at 21:27:37
In all fairness Moyes did his job with little financial help and we have fallen away in recent years, even with the pot of gold given to us by Moshiri. I’m sorry but l have to lay the blame at the feet of of our new owner.

Moyes might not be a popular appointment but he’d be more popular than having to keep Silva. I don’t think it’s that feasible for us to go for a manger that’s currently employed. Our options are limited to those available or putting the noses out of Bournemouth or Man City.

It’s more likely Moyes on a short term contract. I hold no grudge towards him and l would much prefer him than having to hang on to Silva. Silva really is so far out of his depth it’s not funny. No idea what Moshiri was thinking, and to think he chased him for so long. Beggars belief.

Jon Withey
455 Posted 25/11/2019 at 21:41:46
By all means go for more ambitious targets first - but when they turn us down then going for somebody short-term like Moyes who cared for the club for a long time and may still feel he has something to prove. rather him than Allardyce.

In all fairness, Allardyce might well have had us in a better league position now - but I don't think I could stomach the football.

Jeff Armstrong
456 Posted 25/11/2019 at 21:42:02
Given the lack of decent options bandied about I would take Bilic over Silva, Benitez, Moyes, Hughes, etc
it’s Hobson’s choice I know, but it ain’t gonna be Poch, Howe (his missus) Marcelino or anybody else of decent pedigree, so maybe Bilic as he’s doing a decent job at WBA.
Danny O'Neill
457 Posted 25/11/2019 at 21:45:13
I'll be massively disappointed but not surprised if we appoint Moyes David. I don't hold a grudge and my views on him are not based on any bitterness for his decision to leave us for what was a fantastic opportunity at the time or his behaviour afterwards, just on my view on his ability as a manager. I think his approach now is outdated and doesn't work. It would also be as divisive as Allardyce, creating a toxic atmosphere and in honesty, as that proved, we'd probably still just finish 8th only it would be lauded as success whereas had Koeman remained or if somehow - doubt it - Silva did and achieved the same (feasible), it would be deemed failure. Moyes is the master of playing down expectation to the point we all bought into it and perceived mediocracy as success. He tried the same line at Manchester United (failed) & his opening gambit at Sunderland was to predict relegation, which he delivered.

Change yes; but make it meaningful and direction changing. I appreciate this is hopeful and unlikely to happen, but take Blue Bill & Moshiri & away from footballing decisions; leave this one to Brands. His player recruitment has been good. No excuses, but you can't deny our dreadful luck with injuries. Is it me or do Liverpool just not get injuries to key players?!! Separate debate, I apologise for my bitter blueness creeping in!!

As others have pointed out above, when they are fit and play we are better. Let him source the manager too. Then we can really judge him as a Director of Football if that is the model we are adopting. Let him be one and control football matters without the interference of an overly emotionally involved Chairman who can't look outside of Premier League maybes / also has beens & nostalgia, which is influencing the decision making process of the main investor. Let him be in control of not just the players we buy, but the coach we employ to coach and manage them.

Jon Withey
458 Posted 25/11/2019 at 21:49:11
Definitely Moyes ahead of Bilic - you can't be serious ? Even West Ham figured that one out !

I'm sure Norwich would be tempted by Moyes - after all he has kept two clubs in the prem under difficult circumstances - us and West Ham.

I don't even want Moyes and this forum has me defending him.

Jon Withey
459 Posted 25/11/2019 at 21:56:16
In fact, in defense of Moyes again, he made more good buys for the club over his tenure than our dedicated Directors of football combined !

Sure, he made himself a glass ceiling - but he wasn't the devil incarnate - does everything have to be so polar ?

He would be an unambitious appointment for sure but could he steady the ship ?

I thought his West Ham stint was reasonable. For example, look how he turned around Arnautovic.

Danny O'Neill
460 Posted 25/11/2019 at 22:01:39
I'd rather we found some random Bundesliga up and coming or Dutch coach that Brands' network could attract that the "has Premier League" experience crew being touted. We've been there:

Martinez. Premier League experience but got Wigan relegated.
Koeman. Premier League experience. Done okay with Southampton.
Allardyce. Premier League experience. Dreadful.
Silva. Premier League experience. Got Hull relegated & sulked at Watford.


Sir Alex Ferguson: No Premier League (okay top flight English football) experience until his first appointment at Manchester United.

Arsne Wenger: No Premier League experience until his first appointment at Arsenal.

Jose Mourinho: No Premier League experience until his first appointment at Chelsea.

Jurgen Klopp: No Premier League Experience until his first appointment at Liverpool.

Mauricio Pochettino: No Premier League experience until Southampton took a gamble on him which led to his Tottenham appointment.

Think outside. Think broader. Think bigger & more ambitious that David Moyes and 2007 nostalgia or "must have Premier League experience".

Christine Foster
461 Posted 25/11/2019 at 22:04:43
Given the circumstances Moyes did a good job with limited finances BUT he used the club, stayed too long and burnt whatever goodwill he had. Never should he return. He is not despised, but he is dismissed as a candidate and rightly so.

We are all assuming Moshiri and Kenwright will sack Silva, I am not so sure but with a run ahead that would test an Everton team at its very best, the omens do not look good for him, or us.

The choice facing the club is stark, get someone in and hopefully get a bounce before Christmas or stick with him, and that will be a last chance saloon as post Christmas we could be sitting in the bottom three or close(r) to it.

The issue is who next.. who will get us out of this mess? Who is available, who would we want? (Never mind the why... we are in this mess...) The fat Spanish waiter? Well he is allegedly now the third highest paid manager in the world.. so we missed that boat..
Arteta? A gamble.. and a big one.. but he would have the love and backing of the fans.. his number two would probably be tiny Tim...

One thing is certain, Father Christmas is coming with a sack.. with Silva's P45..

Danny O'Neill
462 Posted 25/11/2019 at 22:05:21
To repeat myself and be clear Jon, I do not for one minute consider David Moyes to be the Devil Incarnate. Just because I and other doubt or question his ability as a manager does not mean we hold a grudge. It's just we've been there before so why go back to something that didn't take us back to where we want to be and is unlikely to do so again?
Brent Stephens
463 Posted 25/11/2019 at 22:07:45
Christine #461 - I think that’s the main point, that Moyes burnt whatever goodwill he had. Not sure I can see him coming back after that final taste in the mouth.
Danny O'Neill
464 Posted 25/11/2019 at 22:21:34
You know what Christina, that Arteta / Cahill option has me contradicting myself.

And you reminded me of the most obvious omission from my list:

Pep Guadiola: No Premier League experience until his first appointment at Manchester City.

Previous Premier League experience is not a pre-requisite!

Paul A Smith
465 Posted 25/11/2019 at 22:55:43
Carraghers view on Everton and Silva just now on Monday Night Football is that he will get the Leicester and Liverpool games.

I cannot see it myself?

Tony Hill
466 Posted 25/11/2019 at 23:06:39
I think he’s probably right, Paul, but it’s all guesswork.
Jerome Shields
467 Posted 25/11/2019 at 23:36:41
I think that Moyes having money would have made any difference, just at it did when Kenwright &Co got their sweaty little hands on it and proved themselves useless.
Karl Meighan
468 Posted 26/11/2019 at 05:07:32
If Silva goes I just hope we give the job to a winner who has a pedigree and not that of getting teams relegated.

Moshiri could surely have been in contact with Wenger weeks ago given this has been on the cards. Its not a big list of available options.

The players also have to take the blame, formations are not set in stone and team meetings should offer the chance to put obvious points about the failures forward.

I believe the Allardyce disaster has saved Silva more than anything he seems capable of producing with these players.

Danny O'Neill
469 Posted 26/11/2019 at 05:49:39
Moyes had money at Manchester United. His strategy; go straight back to what you know and try to haggle with Everton to get Fellaini & Baines on the cheap. He is what is his; an underdog who plays down expectation to buy time & breathing space. And now he's an outdated underdog who's approach won't work. Not if we have an ounce of ambition left in us.
Christine Foster
470 Posted 26/11/2019 at 07:01:27
Like apathy borne of inevitably the frustration of being an Evertonian turns from humiliation into justifiable anger.
I used to feel proud of being an Evertonian but these past couple of decades have me ashamed.
I love my club. But I hate it too. I hate the way fans have been treated under the Kenwright era, I hate the failure of successive managers to find a blend of players that could fill an egg cup with passion.. but most of all I hate myself for having hope.
Through all the lies and deceit we lived in hope, but there is something at the heart of the current Everton ethos that is badly wrong, no, not wrong, diseased. We are in dire need of a heart transplant.
The depressing cycle will only end when the culture of the club is replaced with a drive and determination of some with a different vision of how the club should be run, when merely having money is a pre requisite of existing and not a guarantee of success.
To be successful you have to be single minded, you need a hardness of character not just in the team but in the club. We don't appear to have that. We need a hardness in the boardroom, people who have not just the expertise to make it work but the drive and passion to make it happen.
Silva is already history.. like the list before him.. but let's not forget, those poor managers we had before him now manage national sides with some success, and Moyes has been oft tipped as Scotland manager.. so its not just or only the manager but the board that are weak. Until Moshiri gets a ruthless yard dog to drive success I the club in the boardroom little will change on the pitch.changing managers puts a new coat on a corpse..only a change at the core will bring the promise of success.
Paul A Smith
471 Posted 26/11/2019 at 10:16:42
Danny O'Neil keeping it real. (Sorry) I like that assesment of Moyes though mate spot on about his lack of vision with United funds.
James Hill
472 Posted 26/11/2019 at 16:59:08
Lyndon #452

Firstly it's a very bold statement to assume the majority of Evertonians partake in contributing to social media sites. Secondly many of those that do are the same. I know quite few who do not share your view.

Toffeweb unfortunately has many that voice negatively towards Everton. People are entitled to their opinion thats fine. But this site particularly is not a great representation of Evertonians and after Twitter is likely to be on the more uncouth sites.

Lyndon Lloyd
473 Posted 26/11/2019 at 17:07:35
James, (472) I make no such assumption. What I'm saying is that there is an obvious majority holding a viewpoint on ToffeeWeb that is not only mirrored on social media but in podcast discussions and radio phone-ins, etc as well, to the extent that the national media are reporting about supporter distaste for Moyes returning. I think you can safely conclude on that basis that there is a broad consensus.

That may not be reflected in your circle of Blue acquaintances, it might not square with your views and you may have a beef with the perceived negativity on this site (I contend that we have opinion that runs the gamut but it's always the criticism that gets highlighted) but I think I'm with the majority in my views on this one.

Jay Harris
474 Posted 26/11/2019 at 17:12:28
We all know a large number of matchgoing Evertonians and while most recognize that Moyes did a stellar job until the last few years they cannot forgive the way he left the club (and denied us compensation) and then tried to rape us by taking quality players at ridiculous prices all while claiming joining United would further their careers.
Steve Ferns
475 Posted 26/11/2019 at 17:14:27
Jay substitute very good for stellar and maybe a different word to "rape" which I don't think should be used in context other than crime and I would agree with every word.
Christine Foster
476 Posted 26/11/2019 at 19:55:50
James, hardly uncouth, I quite resent that comment.. frankly ToffeeWeb is representative of a good selection of the fan base I am associated with. The ability to discuss and present views are rarely, if ever uncouth. Negative? no, just pragmatic at best, frustrated at worst. But it remains the best site with all things Everton. Perhaps sadly too many Evertonians have their head buried in the sand, refuse to see the wood for the trees but they all have an opportunity to present a view and argue their case. Perhaps you may wish to do so in your defence?
Kieran Kinsella
478 Posted 30/12/2019 at 16:35:58
I sense Moyes is bitter about Everton given his "it's great to be HOME" at West Ham comment. I wouldn't have thought a six month stint warranted calling the club home. Or am I missing the fact that Moyes is secretly a jelly eeled eating, pearly King Eastender?
Julian Exshaw
479 Posted 30/12/2019 at 16:50:49
It's almost a new decade. Moyes belongs to the last. He will always divide opinion but it's time to let go and move on. Good luck to him.
Bill Gienapp
480 Posted 30/12/2019 at 20:52:49
Kieran - the running joke on social media is that Moyes wrote that speech in anticipation of getting the Everton job and when he landed at West Ham instead, he didn't bother to revise it.

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