The Terrifying Spectre of Moyes

No. Please, no.

So, without further ado, if that Treacherous Ginger Twat comes anywhere near our beautiful club, I'm done. I'll let my sadistic friend 'sand' my tattoo of my arm!!!!

Got a feeling that will come back to haunt me!!!

Now I think Moyes did a steady job under harsh circumstances back in the day, but exactly that, back in the day.

There's no Tim Cahill, no Mikel Arteta, no Lee Carsley or 24 year old Leighton Baines or Steven Pienaar.

He gets the job then he's working now with a bunch of players that for me are nowhere near as good as some fans think they are.

Moyes is yesterday's man I'm
afraid, football has moved on, his stints at West Ham and Sunderland proved that.

This is the man that was manager of a team (Manchester United in 2013) the only time this century that we have won away to a top four/six side.

The appointment of Moyes would simply be Groundhog Day and the Sam Allardyce scenario all over again, yet another panicked shit myself move from Everton's board and Moshiri.

I honestly think this club is heading only in one direction and that's down, we can cloud that picture with all these bright shiny ideas of new stadiums and the like but let's make no mistake, we are a rudderless club and leadership qualities on and off the pitch are nonexistent.

Offer Pochettino what he wants, he may say no but the offer has to be put to him privately. He is the best man available and would turn this club around from top to bottom.

I don't see anything changing any time soon, I hope I'm wrong, we've suffered long enough.

I'd Honestly sooner go down and start again without “our saviour” which is definitely where this thread is going to go, because you can't mention David Moyes, without mentioning William Kenwright imo, the men who helped turn an institution into plucky little Everton.

The football yesterday was spineless, destroying the faith of the crowd, but if Moyes comes back to Everton I'd expect a lot of empty seats, even though those seats have already been paid for. Hopefully I'm wrong even if it genuinely won't matter because I'd be finished with Everton for sure.

Edit; now I see Solari mentioned. Jesus wept.

Edit 2; Bielsa, ffs get him in

We're not a club that can pick the best anymore, or for whom only the best will do. We are relegation fodder and every minute, literally every minute this idiot remains in charge we become more palatable relegation fodder. We need someone to make the players want to play for the club again and feels ome pride in themselves as men. Our choices, right now (and the choice has to be made *right* now) are Tony Pulis or Moyes. Choose.

Moyes record since the 11 years at Everton is a shocker, I know a Sunderland fan and they haven't forgotten what he did, bringing many ex Everton injury prone cast offs, such as Gibson, Anichebie and Rodwell all on high wages, only Oviedo was remotely a sucess.

Look at the appointment Leicester have made and what Spurs have just done, and then look at little Everton in their pitiful world.

Going to Anfield the year they will win the title with Moyes back as manager sends shivers down my spine, and they will let us know the slurs againts Everton will be well and True, NEverton who play at Woodison 25 years etc

Moyes will add more passion though but that's not hard to show more passion than Silva is it.

Moyes in and Brands and Silva out would be an improvement. I'd be tempted to poach the Cowley's from Huddersfield Town though. They're winners. It's only what we did with Moyes the first time around and it worked.

It truely will be the end for me as far as football is concerned. I am wavering now. I don't watch much football these days other than Everton. Moyes returning to take us down would send me over the edge.

I can't stand David Moyes the football manager. Moyes I believe stamped his feeble negative mindset right through this club for 11years and we have never been the same since. Just as winning The Champions League/ European Cup is engrained in Liverpool DNA Everton have mediocrity and a losers mindset engrained in thier DNA. Moyes instilled this mindset. Knives to Gun fights and never beating a top side away from home etc.

Why anyone would consider a negative dour fool like Deadly Dave to rescue them I don't know. The White Flag would be waving as soon as he landed here. God help the team across the park next week with Moyes in charge. I can't type any more just thinking about this Moyes scenario is breaking me.

As we witnessed in Moyes' last reign. We were a team that generally finished 7th. So no progress then.

Moyes has never won anything as a manager, so no 11 years without a trophy, I'm afraid it didn't work, and by the time he left that fabled old glass ceiling was triple glazed.

As for the Cowley brothers, again, what have they won?

That would be Mike Walker all over again.

Martinez achieved more in one season than Moyes did in 11 years.

21 wins, 72 points, ended that hoodoo away to the top four all in ONE season.

Martinez's second season was better than Moyes second year (17th place, lowest ever points total).

Martinez, his third season he was justifiably sacked yes but again, under different leadership there were times when Moyes would have been sacked too (the end of 2003/04, the middle of 2005/06).

Moyes steadied the ship over 11 years (which in a decade at one club you should rightly expect?) but then some will say he was lucky to still be here for that long.

It's all about standards.

Sack Silva, but unless we get this next appointment right then the same manager will be getting the same flack in six months time.

The top half I agree with then you rant on about that TGT and what not.

So you state there is only fat Sam and TGT to go for? Nobody else? Not a fucking nod to anyone but them two. Read post 20, and add anyone who's employed, money talks, alot.

Who's saying we'd rather be relegated than have TGT back? If people are, then bollocks to them, but I don't see it.

Then you have a rant at the OP about TGT's time at Sociedad and Sunderland!!

Lyndon also mentioned his time at West Ham and the Manure, provided enough evidence to his managerial credentials since leaving us, no cherry picking from him, only you.

Give it up lad, he's a busted flush.

Arsenal and West Ham will also both be looking for a new manager in the new future. It's crucial we act quickly. I can't see Poch coming, but that phone call at least has to be made. What an absolute mess.

If, (God forbid) Hughes and Moyes are the shortlist then it also tells me Kenwright is still pulling the strings - these are his “pals”. It reeks of Messrs Mediocre and Below Par. Silva was Moshiri's appointment and I can imagine Kenwright saying to him “Leave this one to me Farhad...you had a go at this old boy, but I've got much more experience in these things than you have”

All our former managerial appointments have always been from local / low profile teams. Even Koeman was from Southampton and he was probably the most high profile. Think big for once! Have a go - you don't know until we approach.

If this board and Moshiri has any ounce of ambition to protect his investment he should go all out for Spurs' former manager but sadly I think he will be waiting for the Real gig.

As a few have said already on this thread - there is not a small list to choose from - it's Kenwright making this a small list if media reports are to be believed.

Finally; here is a terrifying thought - imagine this is “our year” - the same as it is “their year” - how much would they love it that not only did they win the league but we got relegated in the same season.

The lack of direction, ambition and professionalism from the top down of this club terrifies me. Since Moshiri arrived we have massively paid over the odds for average players who are here for the money. They have a lot to answer for but it's always a cheaper option to fire the manager. As some have said above we don't have Cahills or Carsleys now to get us out of this mess.

Some decisive action now is needed but sadly I fear they are stumbling along without and it will be too late.

I couldn't go yesterday but please tell me someone - what was the mood like at the end of the game? Will the board get the message of how disgruntled the fans are now or were people just leaving early?

But I don't want him back. The game has changed and his work since has reflected that.

The options don't look that appealing. I'd be looking to the bundesliga and Nagelsmann, Hutter and Rose but I don't any of those would move mid-season.

If we go for an Interim option then surely Unsworth must be near the top of the list. Or Marcelino could be an interesting option. I'm not convinced by Howe who seems to keep Bournemouth mid-table despite investment and they concede 60 goals a season.

I suspect things may well get a lot worse before they get better.

Personally I thought he did an excellent job with the porn barons, and Man U was just a hospital pass, as was Sunderland

There's plenty of talent in this squad. It needs a fire under it. Someone who can lift them. Someone who has them playing with pace and belief. Someone who keeps it simple and plays to the squad's strengths.

The two managers at the top of the betting are there Because the bookies' belief is that Everton are at heart a small-minded, maudlin, sentimental, unambitious club.

Let's prove them wrong. We don't need a firefighter. We need a firestarter. The question is, does the club want one?

Thank You for posting this article Lyndon, you have my 100% support.

5

I see a team of overhyped players, youngsters that can't get a game (for a reason?) we all thought Lookman was the answer (again he's gone away and achieved what?).

Kean was a Brands signing, clearly he does little in training if he can't get on that pitch yesterday.

Too many rejects, Walcott finished, Coleman legs have have gone.

Pickford, inflated ego.

Holgate, too physically weak still.

Digne, having a nightmare season, good left foot but can't defend his own dinner.

Schneiderlin, Delph, both much of a muchness at snail pace.

Sigurdsson, legs have gone.

Davies, tries but has limitations.

Richarlison, our only real attacking threat but too many games he has no impact.

Tosun and DCL, again much of a muchness not going to be good enough going forward.

Bernard when he comes back is our best player for me, the modern day Pienaar.

Gomes, our of things for six months but again, was having a rather poor season himself prior.

Gbamin, who knows?

This squad full of talent looks all rather threadbare to me.

Yesterday I was so down about where this club is at after the millions that have been spent on players over the last few years, I was thinking that Moyes would be the man to steady the ship and get us back up the table.

Lyndon, thanks for this level-headed round-up of certain facts/details that I'd forgotten about.

I'm just numbed by yesterday's defeat (on top of a crap three-month long start to the season) and don't know what to think any more.

Derek Thomas #7 mentions Bielsa - now there's a thought!!

Did I see enough players try hard enough to stop Norwich score those two pathetic schoolboy goals yesterday?

No.

Did I see enough players hurt after Norwich score those goals yesterday?

No.

I see a lot of players pull shirts over faces to hide, that's the common trait of our players and has been now under several managers.

Moyes was scared of big teams and big games, he is the last man I want in charge during December let alone next year.

Fucks sake we can and must do better than a man who did very well with little but pissed whatever "legacy" away with his grovelling to Ferguson and then getting sacked at every club he has been at since in no time.

They should be looking for a top or potential top manager. If they look below that list its Dyche every time.
That bloke will put the fear of god into the shirkers, something Silva simply cant do.

Santiago Solar
Robert Moreno
Massimiliano Allegri
Mauricio Pochettino

I don't think we are that unattractive just yet for one of them not to be interested.

The reality is, I'm watching a team of players that look over-coached, confused and nervous. The manager is drifting, the club is drifting and the players, many of whom have known nothing here other than chaos and dysfunction, are following suit.

I'm neither justifying nor agreeing with this, it's what I see. I've seen it at the fag end of many managers' reigns, both here and elsewhere.

Whoever we replace Silva with needs to have strength and presence.

He done well for us, steadied the ship and I will say this as much as I hate the ####; in the first few months of his last season with us (when he was in the shop window trying to impress whiskey nose) we played the best football I've seen since the 80's (maybe 95), pass, move, triangles, it was fucking sublime, we just didn't have a finisher, I remember us having 20plus shots on target (possibly drunk) at one stage, results were roughly the same but we played togger!!! And it stopped as quickly as it started, he reverted to type (he got the manure job) and that is his downfall.

He set a foundation at Everton and built upon it, he won't have that luxury as a stop gap. Plus he had players with a different mindset (so to speak) and unity within the squad. Yes, he faced the same situation when he come to us, but his record after leaving us tells me we were the exception not the rule.

If we aren't going to try to attract a top manager - Marcelino, Allegri, Pochettino, Nagelsmann - then we might as well stagger on with whoever. Let's recruit Howe or Dyche because any old shite will do.

Lyndon you are right; the shortlist is just that and for that reason it's more than likely that the board will turn to David Moyes since the team and its attitude requires that some grit be instilled into their play. It's worth bearing in mind that such an approach was characteristic of the way Sheffield United started their season as newcomers. That approach has served them well, not that it looks other than what it is at times.

No other approach can be taken if the threat of relegation is to be eradicated.

I agree with so many others though. All this cannot only be Marco Silvas doing.

How much have we spent since Moyes has gone? Three to four hundred million. Manager after manager, paying them off. Great if can get it. The choice of managers we have chosen have been average at best. Manchester city got it right, top manager with great players. We don't have either. They are prepared to pay big money for their manager.

Going forward I see nothing changing. I say to my friends "as long as we don't get relagated, I am happy." It's the hope that's killing Everton fans. The list of managers fans write is great but really is it hope over reality? Has the board got the balls to get a manager who has won trophies?

My thought is if Silva doesn't go by our next game leave him to it. Lets just give him the opportunity to turn it around and if he relagated us well we didn't bring Moyes or big sam back. We stuck by our principals. We have lost our way on the stadium over the present situation. The team is average even if we had a super star manager and mid table at best. Have we a further hundred million to spend on players? That's the board's dilemma. Top manager wants his players!

I will finish with one question. Has the club progressed since Moyes left?

Brands proven record from Holland what bollocks, PSV will be up there regardless of who is in charge and Alkmaar will have a good season once in a while.

I remember years ago the laughter when Sunderland appointed Howard Wilkinson. Moyes or Hughes would make us an even bigger laughing stock. Sunderland made bizarre managerial appointments and threw away their money on incredibly bad signings. We are following exactly the same trajectory and will end up in the same state.

Kenwright should have been relegated to cardboard cut out status in the stands years ago, but is now wrecking our club and is setting us on a path to oblivion with his good old boy appointments and signings. I'm afraid that showing any last traces of goodwill towards him in our fanbase will hasten our demise. The appointment of Moyes to repeat his feat at Sunderland will only confirm our worst fears. Kenwright's presence is poisonous to our club.

Unless Moshiri can somehow oust Kenwright immediately and get a professional adviser in to help him make a proper managerial appointment our downward spiral will accelerate. If Brands genuinely believes that Moyes or Hughes is the answer then he's as guilty as the other muppets on the Board and should go too.

This has been BK's dream all along. Get a rich fool he can manipulate and get his beloved David back in the driving seat. This way both can milk the gullible owner out of a few more million before he gets tired of being taken to the cleaners and returns home to Monaco.

Everton have become such a small, insignificant club that if Silva is sacked tonight it probably wouldn't make tomorrow's back pages.

Silva CANNOT adapt. When he does it's panic decisions that often make it worse. I mean, come on ffs, his record of coming from behind is clear to see!

I want Guardiola. I want Simone. I want Potch. but I'll settle for just about anyone who is available right now. I'd much rather it not be Moyes, but if that's all there is then give it a go till the end of the year, because the only other option is being the next Villa (and hopefully not the next Leeds) with this inept tit.

No one takes responsibility. The players see a defeated manager and give up. There are no repercussions for surrendering. Defeatism pervades the Club. Give us a manager who believes in himself and the players will respond. Someone who has won something and knows he can do it again. Not someone who has never succeeded and brings no expectations other than more failure.

I can't believe after so many extensions to his inevitable departure that the Board haven't at least come out with some sort of statement, but then again I almost forgot, we the fans, the life blood of Everton, don't really matter to them.

It is patently obvious that the fans don't really want Moyes back, even on a temporary basis, and possibly lesser so Mark Hughes, yet the bookies, who generally are right, have them as favourites.

I can only assume, having more faith in Brands than most on here, and the preceding history of Silva's tenure, that he has indeed identified a successor. If not, why not?

I would have grossly over-estimated the acumen of him. I must also hasten to add, that successor does not include either of the two previously mentioned.

There has been some mention of him being given another week, which beggars belief in my book, is he suddenly going to start picking the right combination of players, employing different tactics and substitutions?

It's only Leicester away after all, who are on fire at the moment, second in the Table as it stands, what could be easier?

I don't hold out any hope of a better appointment no matter what. A regime that would even consider that Silva was the man for Everton given his appalling credentials, or lack of them, fills me with dread.

I want Silva gone but am terrified of what is coming next, such is the state of those tasked with replacing him. Close your eyes and pray.

Purrlease!

Brands: That level of performance is totally unacceptable, time for Silva to go.

Bill: Steady on there Marcel, lets not be too hasty.

Moshiri: I agree with Bill, it was poor but once we get Jimmy Mc back in midfield things will turn around.

Brands: I accept I screwed up in the CB department but it's no excuse for picking a team that is slower than me arl fella when I say "it's your round".

Bill: Having said that Marcel, thinking about it I do have a guy who can come in and steady the ship. Big club experience, Top 4 actually (before he got there).

Brands: Yes Bill I like Pochettino as well.

Bill: Whoa, Marcel I don't think we need another foreigner, I mean Brexit an all. I have a guy who knows the club inside & out, in fact he gave us the best bit of marketing that excused away all expectations and justified our piss poor footballing performances.

Brands: Bill, I'm lost we are a football club, success is our ambition?

Bill: No Marcel, we are the "Peoples Club"

Denise: Bill, genius, visionary, I'm on the case, I will think of more people.

Moshiri: Brilliant Bill, we can bring back the glory days. Let's appoint him tomorrow.

Bill: Whoa Farhad, sweetie, luvie, calm down. Look at our next few fixtures, my guy never won at any of the "Big 4" grounds and Leicester are also now top 4. So we keep schtum, full confidence blah blah blah, take the almighty shafting coming our way and then we unveil our Davie, our Moysiah.
The fans will be so desperate at that point that Davie will be welcomed like the returning prodigal son.

Brands: Not sure Bill, thought we'd moved on, 5 year plan we discussed, young exciting coach or proven winners.

Bill: Marcel, we can bring in a young coach alongside him, someone like Phil Neville or maybe his brother.Anyway they are small details, it's all about survival now sweetie.
Farhad, you on board darling?

Moshiri: To be honest Bill I thought spending upwards of 500 million would have sorted the job but if you think going retro is the way, I'm Spartacus.

Bill: Denise, can you get the planning application press release primed also I think it's Pickford's turn to give the Monday, we need to work harder speech.
Marcel we do need more English speaking players to vary this uplifting speech, the fans so look forward to it.

So we are all agreed, Davie is our man, lets get back to the good old days, knife to a gunfight, punching above our weight, should be happy with out lot spirit, that we've been missing.

Nil Satis Nisi Optimum and all that jazz.

Which then leaves us with this idiot Moshiri to pick yet another loser, to go with his 3 previous picks which all failed. When he sacks Silva he also needs to get rid of Brands another waste of space like his predecessor Walsh. I don't know what persuaded Moshiri to go down the DOF route which I have yet to see work in this country. Let the baker of the cake buy the ingredients, rather than this nonsense we have now with different people other than the manager buying players.

As who replaces Silva, well the one thing you can be absolutely sure of is it wont be Pochettino or anybody of his quality. As when we were in trouble under Koeman Moshiri sacked him and despite the protests hired that well know fire fighter Sam Allardyce, who to be fair got us to our customary 8th place. Moshiri then decided it was time to move on from the negative football we played under Allardyce and persued Marco Silva. Silva himself had in this country only did a similar fire fighting job to Allardyce, maybe his style was a lot more attractive but the overall picture was relegated with Hull and having Watford mid table. So lets stop kidding ourselves about the quality of manager we are likely to get to replace Silva. Judging on Moshiris past choices it will either be another firefighter or we will take a punt on an up and coming manager. For those touting Benitez it might be worth reminding everybody that Steve Bruce has got Newcastle higher in the Premier league than Benitez ever did. Me personally he would be the last person I would approach after his small club comments about us. For those willing to overluck that statement well how low must our self esteem fallen that he would even be considered.

I always say as player or manager never go back into the same role, but I would imagine Moyes will be under consideration. Ferguson and Unsworth both played under him and if he is chosen then I guess both of these will be the main part of his coaching set up. I would accept Moyes to come back till the end of the season. But the long term replacement only 1 candidate for me Wayne Rooney, won everything there is to win in football, also leading goalscorer for England and played under some of the best managers in World football. I am sure that if Lampard after 1 season in charge of Derby and Gerrard having no managerial job before taking on Rangers can do well in management then for me Rooney has a better footballing brain than either of those.

1] another EiTC initiative ?

2] BMD ?

3] Another contract for Jose Baxter ?

4] U23 squad to have another sleep out to raise funds for (insert name of worthy cause) as they wait for the January loan window to open?

Meanwhile on the other side of Stanley Park they, rather boringly, seem content to sign top players (at sensible prices) while competing for/winning trophies.

Love hear Little Miss Dynamite's thoughts on this. or any football matter.

Caps Lock Off & so am I (lots of others) if that ginger rat returns to Everton F.C.

#SadTimes
#coyb

Leicester next. That'll be a great day out!

I think it might happen.

Jim @ 79 What about being in the bottom 3 with Moyes in charge?

Choosing the lesser evils, Moyes is more preferable than Silva and Benitez preferable to Moyes.

Personally I would rank Unsy ahead of Benitez on an interim basis. Again, pretty sure he would not be popular either so we really have poor choices available to us, thanks to a truly horrific and speedy unravelling under Silva.

Poch is not a realistic option. I don't think a realistic but unknown figure like Marcelino would get everyone onside, meaning he will be under pressure too if results don't improve.

The only one that fits both categories (realistic & palatable) is Arteta. Crucially, I think the fans would be patient with him as it's his first coaching stint & he comes with a glowing reputation as coach & ofcourse player.

He would also be the focal point of our club. Surely that is the key now. Silva, Martinez, Koeman and Allardyce were "meh" appointments given short shrift once we went on a downward spiral.

Choosing the lesser evils, Moyes is more preferable than Silva and Benitez preferable to Moyes.

Personally I would rank Unsy ahead of Benitez on an interim basis. Again, pretty sure he would not be popular either so we really have poor choices available to us, thanks to a truly horrific and speedy unravelling under Silva.

Poch is not a realistic option. I don't think a realistic but unknown figure like Marcelino would get everyone onside, meaning he will be under pressure too if results don't improve.

The only one that fits both categories (realistic & palatable) is Arteta. Crucially, I think the fans would be patient with him as it's his first coaching stint & he comes with a glowing reputation as coach & ofcourse player.

He would also be the focal point of our club. Surely that is the key now. Silva, Martinez, Koeman and Allardyce were "meh" appointments given short shrift once we went on a downward spiral.

I suspect that Sacking Silva before 2 tough away games to Leicester and Liverpool, Moshiri might have thought it wouldn't be a good start for a new manager. So I suspect if we change it will be after the Derby game, by then we may well be in the bottom 3 so Moshiri would have no choice.

In November 1994 we sacked our manager and appointed a new one. We were in an even worse position than we are now; by far.

The new manager's first game was Liverpool at home. An team that had mustered a mere 4 points won 1 - 0. We also won our last piece of silverware to date that season.

Sometimes a change has an immediate effect that in addition to stopping the rot, puts belief & faith back into both players & supporters.

When its time to go, its time to go, regardless of who we're playing next in my opinion.

I can't recall it ever working in the past, Howard Kendall, probably the best we have ever had, was a shadow of his former self as Mk2, and verging on an embarrassment as Mk3.

I am sure some statto will come on and dispute this with figures to prove my/our theory is bunk. It would be very interesting if someone can suggest a case where either a player or Manager has returned and improved on previous performances!

"Only two sides have ever had fewer points after their opening 12 Premier League games to a season than Fulham's tally of five this campaign - that was QPR, with four points in 2012-13 - unsurprisingly they finished bottom. And Everton who had four points in 1994-95.

But Everton didn't just survive. They played a brand of football which also saw them secure the last piece of silverware to grace Goodison Park.

It was a remarkable revival.

After 12 matches, under the well-meaning but naive leadership of Mike Walker, Everton were rock bottom. They were three points behind Ipswich Town and five points behind Leicester City - who both went down."

Be careful what you wish for.

Mentioned it earlier but we should go for Rafa or the Cowley's. Established name or prospects, both winners. But Moyes would be an improvement on Silva.

He built a solid hard working squad that at times was a decent striker away from seriously competing.

He took us out of the relegation fight and placed us behind the top 4 on a regular basis.

We got to FA cup finals, broke the top 4 and regularly qualified for the Europa league. All on a shoestring budget.

I'm not a Moyes apologist but for fucks sake it's all the above that got him the biggest job in the premiership and manager of the year awards.

I don't want him back but I don't get the bitterness I seriously don't. If the current manager was anywhere near achieving the above we'd be happy right now. Outside of one season of Martinez where Lukaku was placed into Moyes foundations we've slowly regressed ever since.

Eddie Howe please. Three & a half-year contract would do me, although I do have misgivings about his defensive & away record, but give him scope to build..

Pochettino would laugh us out of the room. He looks jaded to me anyway.

Dyche: Great bloke but probably way too defensive.

Hughes/ Moyes: Just shoot me.

Arteta: Why??

We absolutely should not even be entertaining the prospect. He has failed miserably since leaving Everton on multiple occasions in varying scenarios. In honesty, he'd never have lasted 11 years at any other club.

I'm not a Moyes hater. I appreciated what he done for us at the time. In his early years it is what was needed and I was a massive supporter bordering on protector, often arguing with many on this forum who suggested otherwise.

I would say his last 3 or 4 years however are where I turned and realised he was not going to take us further. He didn't have (doesn't have) the skill, ability or desire. He isn't a winner. He likes being the underdog when there isn't an expectation to win. The absolute turning point was the semi-final against Liverpool. 1-0 up at half time and totally dominating what was then the most average Liverpool team of my lifetime and our Davey goes for safety (KITANO) in the 2nd half rather than the jugular. We sit back to protect the slender lead and the inevitable happens. Blame Distin - I blame the tactics.

I would suggest that's why generally, we seemingly went through an endless vicious cycle of high expectation given a strong finish to the previous season; dreadful start; expectation diminishes; relax and play well to the end of the season, somehow finishing 7th; cue go into the next season with high expectation. Sound familiar?! I suppose that's my point, Moyes coming back doesn't achieve anything. We might as well stick with the current manager as the outcome will likely be the same; look at last season.

Change is needed, but don't change for change sake; make it meaningful.

If it was to happen I think the bookies would then install Everton favorites to go down and I would agree.

It has to be a big name.
Apart from Eddie Howe, who is the only young manager I would trust to steer us clear of relegation.
Benitez is not ideal for a relegation fight.

His record is nothing short of disgraceful.

If he is allowed anymore time it will give the new manager an even bigger task to recover in less games.

A couple of lads from Gladys street could manage this club better than Silva.

Whay Moyes did for us with zero investment should garner him more respect. We have a portion of our fan base that wants certain players to fail... just like they wanted Allardyce to fail. He didn't. The name of the game is football and your aim is to get points.

My first choice... that would be Arteta. Then it would be Bilic. After that l would take Moyes... slightly ahead of him would be Martinez. YES thats right... theres another manager hounded out. If we are going to lose lets lose with a bit of style.

I think with Delph, Gomes Gbamin and Bernard you could argue that our first choice midfield is all out injured.

As it stands Moyes would settle us down, set us up properly give us a strong base so we can move forward. Anyone saying Moyes is a shit manager is talking out of their grudge holding backside. Grow the f up.

We finished 4th in a freak season when we finished with a minus goal difference. After getting knocked out of Champions League in first game we made fools of ourselves in the eufa cup.

Besides numerous hammerings, embarrassing cup exits, never getting close to winning at Anfield, Moyes's treachury when leaving us for Manu and trying to poach Baines rules him out.

I would rather have Big Sam than Moyes

It comes from a place of not only fear but familiarity, As regards the Moyes scenario you can apply same to Mosh and Bill, would somebody who has taken a business with the potential of Everton and ran into utter mediocrity for decades be "kept on" after a takeover, me thinks not

Maybe knit picking here but when you say " No surprise then that in the wake of the shocking 2-0 home defeat to Norwich" when you say "shocking" I am assume you mean the manner of the defeat ?

It came to no shock to me that we got beaten by them it was like watching a replay of the games where Silva had been totally outsmarted by much lesser opponents I am not going to list them here

The fans need to get both vocal and beligerant and they need to want BK gone with the manager, is the only way we can cut ties with the dreary past

Silva OUT
BK OUT

I don't think Moyes is a shit manager. I think he's a limited one; like Allardyce and the current incumbent, hence my point. We appointed Allardyce and finished 8th. Our current manager achieved that last season & will likely do so this year if we somehow leave him in post. Moyes on average achieved 7th/8th and would likely do so if we appoint him, but like Allardyce, it would be seen as achievement as opposed to Silva's & Koeman's before him failure.

Back to my previous. Stop messing about and if we are going to change, make it meaningful and change the direction of travel.

We are alarmingly loose in our play and in our formations - that is how relegation candidates perform, without structure and failing to control/pass properly. Of course, lack of confidence completes the vicious circle.

The first thing we need to realise is how much trouble we're in. Start, as always, with the defence and stop conceding. Those goals yesterday were horror stories. Attractive football is not now the priority.

We, and I use the term more hopefully than any other way, as WE have no say whatsoever in the picking of a new appointee. Equally, as we didn't for the previous incumbents, (much is the pity there, we could have saved the Club a fortune) but it does make us wince at the total profligacy and to a much more concerning degree, incompetence of the Board.

Like you mentioned we all thought our prayers had been answered when Moshiri came onboard, instead it has resembled more of a nightmare, apart from a few games that you could count on one hand, between three different Managers.

"our car"? Surely you mean her car.

TW anti Moyes posters complained about us only finishing 5, 6 or 7th saying we should be top 4 or winning the league and the reason why we weren't was down to Moyes, mostly because he was ‘dour' and ‘ginger'. I regularly challenged this view. Seems many on here still don't get it.

I also think most Everton fans don't hate Moyes.

In the week when there has been much nostalgia surrounding the Howard's way film, the point is that bringing Moyes back will keep us where we are now. It won't progress us to the next level we all crave & desire.

Moyes done a job for a while. But he's limited as has been proven post his Everton career. That's not hating him, just giving an opinion of his "achievements"; trophy count anyone??

My view of him is that he did reasonably well with a limited budget until 2008. After that, he began to act like he was doing the club a favour by staying. With no trophies in over a decade, he wasn't.

We have the Portuguese Eddie Howe now. The man Moshiri had down as the philosopher of open sexy football, where defensive discipline is not the be-all and end-all and while you play lovely football on your day, you lose 15-20 a season.

That is what Bournemouth do, should we be like that? Has due diligence been a major priority for Moshiri?
I think not. I think he is careless and mistaken.

No doubt in my mind you give Bernardo Silva, Harry Kane, De Bruyne and Mane to Eddie Howe, he is getting Champions League football for Bournemouth.

This is why my mind is completely open to a manager that has the fundamentals in place but also has the team physically strong and also why I am still baffled as to why anyone on earth expected Allardyce to get good football from the players he had or even Silva to an extent.

It has to be one of the most obsessed, one-eyed view I have ever had read.

I agree with Steve above on Moyes. He spent the last few years looking after himself with his "knives to a gunfight" statements while little Wigan went and won games at Arsenal and Anfield.

He skipped away like a kid with chocolate when United came in and was happy to see us as the stepping stone so many players see us as.

He showed himself to be a man devoid of integrity. His subsequent jobs have demonstrated just how poor he is. He was protected, way, way past his sell-by date, by Kenwright who then appointed relegation Roberto. A truly awful choice.

It's 50-50 (no matter what we think) if they even sack Silva and again 50-50 if they appoint Moyes. If Boys Pen Bill still has any say, I know where my money's going.

If there is an announcement, I wonder who'll make it?...and more to the point what it will say.

What's the point of giving Silva 1 or more games to 'get it right' unless its to get the new guy lined up.

Bielsa please.

There is a recurring theme here. There is only so far a manager can take a side without big improvements it seems.

I actually quite like Moyes. When he left us, I rang round a few bookies for odds for Utd sacking him first season and us finishing higher than Utd. Bet 365 gave me 20/1 and I put a hefty bet on.

Seriously, I think he was a good manager who gets the best out of half-decent players and was superb at getting players from the lower leagues. I don't know what he's like now as he's not managed for a while.

It's Kenwright you should thank for the stability. While Moyes was there pushing down expectations, Bill didn't need to find a buyer. No ambitious club would have kept a trophyless manager for so long. He broke our transfer record for Yakubu and was very unlucky when his achilles finished him. He broke the record for Beattie & Johnson, who were both underwhelming.

Whenever expectations were raised, he and his team wet their pants. I didn't begrudge him his move to Utd. His limitations were exposed there, at Sunderland and West Ham. And he's been out of management for how long?

He did a good job for us, but it would be a lazy, retrograde step to bring him back now.

I just don't believe the rumor.

Your key sentence to me is: "... it's a record that wouldn't make you look at him twice were it not for his history with the Toffees." Exactly. Moyes has NO history with the Toffees who will make the decision on the next manager, Moshiri and Brands. They've never worked with him, perhaps never met him. They have no reason to consider him.

The Moyes rumor is a bet that Kenwright is still somehow secretly in charge of the decision and still somehow rates him above all others. And I just don't buy those bets.

I believe it will ultimately be Moshiri's call, advised by his handpicked adviser Brands. I believe he has already decided to correct the mistake he made picking Silva. And I believe he has already settled on a candidate and talked with him.

And I do not believe it is, or ever will be, David Moyes.

Like I wouldnt mind if Benitez was like Simone or the likes on an upward career path, and we are forgiving him the insults he threw at our club and the fact he was our neighbors succesful manager 20 YEARS ago, but he is a hasbeen got Newcastle relegated, nearly got them relegated a 2nd time, then pissed of the China for every other reason EXCEPT the money ( I assume he left his family behind )

But in a world FULL of meaning less stats some things are much more important, We need a manager who can unite the players and the fans (Royle, Moyes on arrival etc) the current chasm is huge, either of the above will divide and are spent forces now in the game, I suggest Eddie Howe is the man to bring our fans and players together and push us on to BMD playing attractive football

He has had sustained success with NO backing (although relative in the PL he has sustained it) but is time somebody gave him an opportunity with top players, ,his record of Sustaining good levels is the most important for me but on top of it, he is an Everton Supporter, he wont ask for 200m to buy players which we do not have, he is clear and straight talker, he has yet to achieve his best and he is within reach

Some time as a club you just need to do the "right" thing and good things come from it, He Deserves this job for me, he has earned it

I have no idea who will replace Silva if he goes, but I certainly do not want Moyes or Hughes..

If there is the slightest chance that he was interested in coming here (and it would be a miracle if he was) it would be the greatest appointment the club could possibly make.

He has operated under a similar wage structure to us yet he has had his team compete in a paradigm where Spurs have no place to be at the top end of domestic and European football. Next you will be believing that Chris Wilder should be questioned if they don't qualify for Europe this season.

But instead you want Benitez who has done no better than Steve Bruce at Newcastle and is currently struggling in a Micky mouse league. Yes he has a sterling CV but a guy who has no respect for our club and would produce a similar brand of football to Moyes.
No thanks.

Danny-119 exactly my thoughts

Or is that just hopeful speculation by an equally frustrated member of our fanbase?

Everton finish fourth and qualify for the champions league qualifying round, not the actual group stages, and Kenwright is on SSN popping champagne with Moyes. Made me cringe with embarrassment.

Everton sell Rooney to man Utd and it's reported Kenwright is blubbering down the phone to his mum, crying "they've took my boy off me" as he pockets a few million quid. Makes me cringe with embarrassment.

Everton beat Chelsea in the FA Cup to advance to the semi-finals. Kenwright later seen in SSN with Martinez, looking rather pissed with his arm around Martinez, proclaiming to the world "What a manager Martinez is". Makes me cringe with embarrassment.

Everton beat West ham this season, and after the game Bernard is being interviewed by Brazilian TV. Kenwright appears, puts arm around Bernard and quips up "what a goal and what a player". Makes me cringe with embarrassment.

Who the Fuck calls their CEO "My little miss dynamite"? Guess what . Makes me cringe with embarrassment!!

If that doesn't tell people what Moshiri's managers have been left with, nothing will.

We have watched 4 years of dour under achieving non successful players pick up 3 million less than a champions league side and they say we can't attract top players.

Something has gone badly amiss hasn't it?

If you look at the figures, he's had a few bob to spend from a wealthy owner. The man who has done a belting job on a minuscule budget is Dyche.

I just feel Dyche plays anti-football which is fair if you are Burnley but would become dire to watch, I am not saying Howe is going to win the Ch Lge but I feel we will go to BMD behind the projecct, behind the Manager and Players and be in a good place to fill the new stadium with NEW fans

Right now our club is a joke but on top of that nobody even wants to look at our games, after watching all of Silvas matches I would suggest for most is blind loyalty attending what has been for the most part dross to watch

It is if you limit your options to a certain profile of manager, as many seem to do.

Such is the perception of Everton in recent years, even amongst our own, that the bookies immediately install the bleedingly obvious candidates of Moyes and Hughes as favourites.

Now Moyes, given the restraints he worked under, did well, all things considered. There were some good spells, some good buys, some 'nearly, but not quite' moments.

But it was also a marriage of convenience with Bill Kenwright and between them they shaped the narrative and presented the club as "plucky ole Everton, bashing their heads on the glass ceiling as paupers." For 11 unbroken, trophyless years, no less.

Many supporters bought into this narrative, excusing them and the club for not competing with the elite on the back of it.

But I for one am not having Ryan's comments @ 83 that anyone opposing Moyes' return and seeing it as a "retrograde step...is lacking in the old grey matter...and simpleminded."

And more! That "It is beyond small thinking to think that, in fact it is not thinking at all! David Moyes produced great results on a shoestring before, think what he would achieve now." [Note to Ryan: how did his year at monied United go?]

Ryan concludes by describing those opposing Moyes' return as "neanderthal boo-ers" and that "the only thing they are any good at is going backwards. Keep quiet and allow us to go forward!"

Well, if I may be allowed to apply my evidently inferior grey-matter when compared to Ryan, I don't want David Moyes anywhere near Everton FC ever again in any capacity. And I speak as one who largely respected what he did in his time at Everton.

But the manner of his leaving, his comments about Everton on arriving at United, his derisory offers for Baines and Fellani, burnt every possible bridge 'twixt Moyes and Everton forever for me.

In his time since leaving Everton, Moyes continued to reveal his tendency to downplay expectations. As United manager, before playing Liverpool at Old Trafford, he declared the opposition went into the game as favourites. United lost.

In Spain, he had the Barcelona/Real Madrid excuse.

At Sunderland, after the first game of the season, he stated they were in a relegation battle. They were duly relegated after buying many a broken Everton crock. He said similar at WHU.

As this thread is showing, the re-appointment of David Moyes would be hugely divisive at a time when we need an appointment that would unite the support, not divide it.

Paul Tran calls it right for me. We don't need a fire-fighter. We need a fire-starter, someone to light a bonfire under these players and ignite a firestorm.

David Moyes is most definitely not that man.

And if he does get the gig, for no matter how long, it reflects abysmally on Moshiri and Brands and indicates that Bill Kenwright still holds far too much sway at the club when he should have been put out to pasture 3 years ago.

Who we get, and when, I have now idea and neither do any of us.

All I hope is they consider the price of a lazy conman like Schneiderlin v the cost of a good manager

Anyway, as we know it is rebuilding time...again!

Even better a lynching at Finch Ranch! :-) Yeehaa

I don't know enough about the foreign coaches to have an opinion of substance. If it was a Brit, I'd go with Dyche, in the hope that he'll bring some creativity with better players to go with his work ethic and nous.

On a board where the opinions range from the brilliant to the bizarre and there's always someone to disagree with even the most general consensus, I haven't seen one post today calling for Silva to be given more time in the job. Not one.

The only solution I can come up with is lots of money, much more than Moshiri has.

Maybe people are not calling for more time for Silva because they feel he is almost certain to get it.

Seemingly everyone wants him gone by the weekend (this one) but how many believe he will be ?

The master of playing down expectation so that mediocracy looks like success.

No manager survives a reaction like yesterdays surely? The next defeat will be an even worse reaction.

Play that game with yourself or someone else.

Or even better, put it to the likes of Moshiri, Brands and BK who will be making that decision.

No doubt if he takes charge he'll guide us to 7th spot and tell us all how we should be grateful for it.

He had his time, much of it and despite a fine job of improving us he never won a trophy and was never able to take the next step.

His behaviour towards our club when he was Utd manager lacked a hell of a lot of class and he lost a lot of respect for me. Good riddance

Unless they mess it up and announce tomorrow that Marco has their complete confidence.

A matter of time, question is when and who?

Id sack half the fans first. Then work my way up through the club. Silva, brands and the people responsible for not going beyond 52,000 capacity for a new stadium.

Before I go any further, can you do twenty keeps ups?

However, I don't think there's the slightest chance of your other scenario!

Two fans spoke for the entire supporter base yesterday. One was the guy who bellowed at Kenwright after the game, "He's gotta go, Bill! He's gotta go!" (Phil Kirkbride posted the video... check it out.)

The other was the mum in the stand with the young son who appeared on camera on the US broadcast. Just at the moment of her closeup, she screamed, "Fuck off, Silva!" (The little boy ducked his head and smiled.)

The people have spoken.

Shouldn't that read currently unemployed???

Nope! It doesn't mean that at all.

I could easily put up a list of names.

It would count for nothing.

I'm not one of the decision makers who will make that call.

Nor do I have their ear to persuade them one way or the other.

You challenging me to offer an alternative name to Moyes and me choosing not to do so doesn't invalidate the points I made in my post @142.

Care to counter them whilst also validating your own post @ 129 that buys into the narrative I exposed:
* Moyes 'was amazing' with little money
* Regular got around the top 6
* For 'sure' would have won trophies with Moshiri's millions
* 'IF' Moyes returned and kept us up "that's not a bad thing"

The first two I acknowledged. The last two is total supposition on your part.

We need a full-time manager NOW we can believe in, not a caretaker to stumble through until the summer with no guarantee of improving our plight.

Derek, unfortunately we the fans are no longer the life blood of our clubs, it's SKY and BT who pay most of the bills, we're just there for effect and don't really matter anymore.

I've heard from two different sources today that Sheffield United will be the latest to complain about Moshiri "tapping up" their man
I would never have considered him so I don't have an opinion on it. Just relaying what I heard.

Anyone else heard anything along these lines ?

What worries me most is the absence of toughness and presence in the side - our spine is lacking both in terms of footballing solidity/quality and in terms of courage. We need to buy in January.

We look very lightweight and yesterday, in particular, I thought we looked very much like a relegation side. I do not say that we will go down, that would be premature obviously, but I think, given our coming fixtures, we need to ensure survival first and then look to develop (yet again).

Our immediate need is to stop the rot which is accelerating every week.

Unless we could entice Poch, which is zero to be honest, we have to get someone in place until the end of the season ONLY. None of those 18 months, 2 year nonsense deals.

For me until the end of the season 'd give it to Unsworth. Could he really do an worse than the present arsehole ? Would he be in any way less thought of than the 2 getting mentioned, Moyes and Hughes ?

Give it to Unsworth with the only stipulation that Schneiderlin, Sig and Tosun under no circumstances start another game for us.

Moshiri needs to grow a pair and get a full clear out at Board level and Finch Farm. No more Mr. Nice Guy

Silva has to go immediately, we've given him far too long.

Our immediate need is to stop the rot which is accelerating every week.

Unless we could entice Poch, which is zero to be honest, we have to get someone in place until the end of the season ONLY. None of those 18 months, 2 year nonsense deals.

For me until the end of the season 'd give it to Unsworth. Could he really do an worse than the present arsehole ? Would he be in any way less thought of than the 2 getting mentioned, Moyes and Hughes ?

Give it to Unsworth with the only stipulation that Schneiderlin, Sig and Tosun under no circumstances start another game for us.

Moshiri needs to grow a pair and get a full clear out at Board level and Finch Farm. No more Mr. Nice Guy

Silva has to go immediately, we've given him far too long.

Everton are stuck in the past in every sense of the term and that ain't changed in the 40 years I've followed them. I see no reason to believe that's going to change this time round either.

But please not Benitez, the man's eyes practically well up every time he steps foot in that God-forsaken place with the pram hood.

Or is that crediting our Board with too much advanced thinking?

You can see the depth of Kenwrightophobia implied by your post and also that exists on this site.

I myself have become irrational about the possibilty of Moyes once again on the sideline.

The quicker they get the new man in the better.

The really frightening thing about this that might turn your post on it's head is that most of the bookies have stop taking odds on Moyes at 1/2, do they know something we don't.

Eddie Howe for me is a risk and I remain unconvinced.

Rob #193, you probably know more about bookies than I do, but I never assume they "know" something because, after all, their job is to generate bets, not predict an outcome -- they don't make money by being right.

Derek #195, a swarm of crazed Blues normally kept occupied by TW but suddenly with nothing to do could be a catastrophe if loosed on society. Even for just 24 hours.

We need to be realistic, we ain't gonna get any manager who's gonna make us play like Brazil...just not gonna happen.

A decent manager who gets the best from what he has, well organised, and maybe in 5 years we can attract a better manager to go up a level.

As it stands, having tactically inept managers with so called 'attacking philosophies' will just take us down.

I for one will completely give up on Everton, after 50 years of going the game, if he returns.

A Moyes appointment will be the final straw for me and Everton will be done as far as I am concerned and I think they will go down.

I would rather have Big Sam back than the treacherous one.

No one at LFC coaching team has a Liverpool connection and it's the best LFC team there has been since Bob Paisley.

Bluntly put, do you think the below is a "relegation fodder" team?

Pickford
Sidibe Holgate Mina Digne
Gbamin Iwobi Gomes
Richarlison Kean Bernard

Notice who's missing? Schneiderlin, Sigurdsson, Walcott, Tosun, DCL, Keane...I kind of get passing judgment on a manager after 16 months; it's just the nature of football fans in 2019. But passing judgment on Brands after 16 mos/3 transfer windows? That leaves me scratching my head down to the bone.

All three are good managers.
Someone explain it? I'll give anyone a hundred pound who can.
As long as they use facts.

Arteta would unite us as a club, he is currently working under one of the greatest managers of all time. Guardiola credits the transformation of Sterlings game to our maestro.

You could just imagine how detailed and how many ways of playing we would have if he could bring some of Guardiolas nous to us.

Listening to some of the names we have come up with today for me is just like putting a different face to a previous manager which didn't unite the fans. When I hear Benitez I think Moyes, Howe I think Martinez, Dyche I think Allardyce.

Arteta excites me in that he's not just one of us but he represents a bit of a revolution like Chelsea have done with Lampard. I don't want change for changes sake, I want meaningful change.

I just thought it interesting that we HAD actually (factually) made an approach already, albeit in the fairly recent past, to get Rafa.

Sheffield 1-0 The other United

That is interesting, they've shown previous interest in him.

Having said that I'm looking at the price SKY are offering 9/1, seems to imply it won't happen?

You're quite right, James, and I've never claimed to speak for anyone. For 23 years, I've called like I see it and people can choose to read it, agree with it or take issue with it. I usually try and take a balanced view but when I feel passionately about something, I'll nail my colours to the mast as I have here. On this issue, reading the comments here and on social media the past 24 hours, it looks like I'm in a clear majority.

I'm not sure where you get the idea I'm supporting Silva. If you'd read my match report from yesterday, I make no bones of the fact that I believe he's at the end of his road at EFC.

I'm also interested in your certainty that Moyes would keep us up (not to mention your assertion that by not wanting him back is tantamount to wanting us to get relegated). I happen to believe that we're too good to go down regardless of who is in charge but Moyes's time at Sunderland suggests to me that he could be just as risky as keeping the present incumbent in charge.

I now believe we have sounded Sheff united out, but everything is hunky Dory over there at the moment. They avent had it so good for decades. After poaching the Southampton and Watford managers, I don't think Moshiri will be allowed anywhere near him. I'm pretty certain that would be the case with Dyche too.

A complete clusterfuck of a situation.

I don't think any of them will be managing Everton.

Under 23s been contacted today, told to stay off tomorrow?
Any truth in what I just got told lads

Based on £ value of the squad we are too good to go down, but every other metric points to another potential outcome?

This club cannot afford to be complacent.

You married a woman eons ago. After a boring 10 years during which neither she nor you were truly happy, you finally get a divorce. 10 years late, through a few old mates who know her, you find out that she somehow married FOUR MORE TIMES, all of which ended in divorce, one as quickly as 10 months later, and another who drank himself to the point where he's homeless. Somehow she walked away with some of those poor blokes' earnings too. She's put on quite a bit of weight, still has several filthy habits that drove you nuts the first time, and clearly hasn't gone clothes shopping or to a modern hairdresser since your first divorce.

And your first thought is...I should marry her again.

Now doesn't that sound bloody fucking ridiculous?

From a reliable source (xxxxx xxxxxxx lad who plays for u23s')
Silva sacked, under 23's just been contacted at home and told not to come in tomorrow so something going on, unsworth prob taking temp charge.

With Arteta

Hmm worst cfs in the league, smallest most mistake ridden keeper in the prem, two fbs who cant defend (if Coleman doesnt play), slowest midfield 3, a DoF who hasnt got a clue, no height to defend set pieces.

And all this moshiri investment bollocks. I'm sick of hearing this myth.

We were the seventh highest wage bill before he come in and we are the seventh now. And he wants to reduce it. And we are still a selling club.

Stop talking shite. If you cant do twenty keep ups and make daft statements like that without thinking them through please go and support the reds. Thats were deluded football fans belong.

Its peoole like you who believe in charlatans like Brands and walsh.

Selling lukaku, rooney and gana and loving moshiri.

Absolute idiots.

Big Dunch Ferguson the coaching genius has served under Moyes, Martinez, Koeman and SIlva. No ones shouting for him but people seem to think Arteta with zero managerial experience is the next messiah.

You would need £200M just to fix that. Its criminal just how bad that is for an established premiership club such as ourselves.

Sorry latest news, and correction to the last statement he went for a toilet break. :-)

I'm only going from gut instinct + past evidence, that can definately equal 5 sometimes.

Alan @241 can you pause your lunatic rantings for a second to explain to the class how or why Brands is at all culpable here?

I anxiously await your response.

So it seems SILVA HAS FINALLY BEEN SACKED.

Most of what is posted is stuff a Daily Mirror writer could come up with but he isn't supposed to be looking at Everton as deeply as us.

In a dark drunken pub voice all I ever seem to hear in my head is, sack the manager, the suuuuubs, the tactics, the formation.

We always look for the obvious moan and go with anything that lacks substance.

Toffeetv do videos 2 years later on how Walsh or Koeman where to blame. 2 years later who is bothered. I asked at the time and got nothing but generic stick for it.

Look how quick the "Davies starting was forced on Silva" nonsense started to spread. People actually convinced themselves just to hate Silva more.

What is that about? Give everything hard evidence, its your club not Brands or Moshiri. Its about time people told them what we want not falling for everything they do then asking questions later..

We need to be a hard knowledgable fanbase again or they will ride us senseless.

Daniel- Of course I am acknowledging it's a gamble but from everything you hear about City he is a huge cog in that wheel. Yes assistants don't always make great managers but to compare Ferguson who is learning as much bad practice to learning from Guardiola is a bit strange.

Even on this thread we are hearing about Dyche and Wilder and how they are up for every ball. Well so were Allardyces Bolton and Koemans Southampton before we appointed them.

I would have serious worries about Dyche especially as he has had a lot of Irish players so I keep an eye on them. They seem to do well for Burnley but if you take Jeff Hendricks he continually is so bad technically for his Country that there are Chamionship kids that look better in an Irish shirt.

Okay we have been unlucky, losing Gbamin, Gomes, Delph and Bernard, but that is what a squad is for.

Do you know the other 10, Paul?!

Unsworth will keep this side up and bring better results than what we have gotten he will I suggest drop the Schneids.Sigis if they are doing shite they will be hooked and a young lad like Benni will get a run

The squad are not world beaters but are good enough to be in top 6/7 just launch this clown he is out of his depth as he was at his former prestigious clubs eh hem Hull and Watford

I want Eddie Howe but anybody with some balls and a bit of imagination and flexibility will keep this squad in the Top half

Billy Liar still wields far too much influence and will be prepared to ignore Moyes's awful stats since leaving Everton with his overly sentimental bullshit approach to running Everton.

If Moyes is the answer, then I don't know what the question is! Oh, maybe I do... are we an ambitious club? So, if Moyes is Bullshit Billy's answer to the question, then the answer is by implication a resounding "No".

Conor McCourt might be a better name checker than me?

I just remember a few told to "just be happy" no pleasing some blah blah. "Brands knows more blah blah. Just like they were told under Walsh, and that is my point, same old same old in general and we come full circle don't we?

What else has Silva offered other than not been able to capably manage the basic three important ingredients for a successful side?

It is little wonder that people say the same old things, because maybe, just maybe, they are right!

Maybe I just admire the ones who think that after 3 full time managers there has to be more to it. Apologies. And its not just ToffeeWebbers its the whole of social media.

And I don't mind my views being ripped either if some good comes from it.

Ole was sacked on here 5 mins ago? That still a belief?

Mark i am sure it has been mate. Buying Iwobi when we need a Centre Back is one fault or is that logical?

Nobody is saying sack him just hold him accountable too.

But don't you think our Director of Football is already cast in a very poor light?

I had 6/1 & Spurs sacked Poch. Bastards!

I have nothing against moshiri but I cant see the sense in hero worshipping the man.

Dof system is the problem and I stand by every fact I've said.

7th highest wage bill now, 7th highest under bk.

Prove me wrong Mike. And if the system is broken like I suggest tell my why they next guy. Even if its pep wont have the same problems.

No one tells the truth on here. All got favouritism or bias.

For example. People booed the substition of sidibe yesterday. He was stinking the place out. And how is booing going to help the team.

Delusion.

Again mike find something I've said thats factually incorrect.

But they did agree to let Fikayo Tomori come on loan till next summer, the lad was just about to sign, with 24 hours or so left in the window, when David Luiz rocked the boat and defected to Arsenal.

The potential Tomori deal was nipped in the bud, there and then, and attention turned to United's Roja, who did go to Finch Farm, but United couldn't agree terms and pulled him out of any deal.

That unfortunately was on Deadline Day with an hour or so to spare hence no-one in that particular position was recruited. As far as a Striker is concerned there were few around who were available hence the acquisition of Iwobi, who can act as a striker if called upon, but never deployed by Silva in that role.

Also in defence of M Brands, he could not possibly have predicted, or be responsible for injuries to Gbamin, Gomes, Delph or Bernard, all fairly key players, although they have had their hot and cold moments.

Unsy now 5/2 from 16/1.

Moyes at Evens and Hughes next at 7/1.

That would be it for me.

I will continue to wait for you to explain where Brands is culpable. Because it seems to me, that on the surface, you simply have disdain for the position of DoF. Not sure how you can blame Brands for his predecessor's spending, but if you've got a solid explanation, I'd love to hear it.

Seems to me that he has brought this on himself. Why would he come on here with well-thought-out, eloquent defences of a coach he admires?

Silva and Kenwright have had their part to play in this shambles but, if anyone should go, it should be Ferns. Overpaid and underperforming. Get rid.

Intetesting as your family tree is dcl and Richarlison have three each. I cant think of another side were at least one player hasn't got someone on four or more.

I cant think of another tiny, egostical keeper with more mistakes either. I cant think of a DOF ever improving a club in England?

No barrister could have offered a more eloquent defense for his client, and now that the jury has come back with its verdict and sentence is apparently being passed, I certainly don't blame him for not wanting to appear on the courthouse steps to take the slings and arrows from some of the congregation here.

We'll be here for him.

"I will continue to wait for you to explain where Brands is culpable. Because it seems to me, that on the surface, you simply have disdain for the position of DoF. Not sure how you can blame Brands for his predecessor's spending, but if you've got a solid explanation, I'd love to hear it."

Not sure what Pickford has to do with Brands. Also not entirely sure what Richarlison/DCL having 3 goals each has to do with Brands.

I'd do a better job than Moyes, and think that Evertonians have forgotten how great our club could be. Fuck me alls you have to do is make Everton pragmatic and the fans will keep you in the top half of the table, and if you can add a bit of quality, then I'm sure those fans would definitely help you to win a cup?

Moyes thought he'd hit the big time when he got the United job, but for a man who had been involved in football for a long time, he didn't even realise that once he'd got the job he had to fucking win, probably because he'd been kidding the kidder, and doing a great job at plucky little Everton for years.

Everton, are ready to take off because the fans are fucking desperate, just get us a fire-starter (thanks Paul) and the fans will take care of the rest. Someone with heart, someone with pride, someone with desire and someone with fight, and someone who understands how fuckin* important the fans can be if you can just give them a team with all the above.

On Brands, is it wrong to say he should be the long term planner? That is how his role comes across to me in many aspects.

Therefore I believe that when at least a fornight before the window closed, Lampard stated he wanted to work with Zouma.

Now to me again (and I might be wrong) but a long term planner should realise Chelsea are not the only side in the world with Centre Backs and we need one. Force their hand or move on.

Maybe even force their hand by moving on but he done neither. The Zaha saga was a joke too. Sky's transfer leader told us all week he is not going to Everton plain and simple so we moved on to a 30 odd million pound player that wasn't needed because he also couldn't deliver a striker.

To even blame Silva for the transfers in my eyes is fruitless because he surely ( in fact, most certainly knew we need a striker as he did the year before) and he wanted Zouma so he obviously wanted a centre half.

Trying to provide evidence comes across arrogant and I hate it but thats how is looks to me and the reasons are there to fuel my point.

You know us, Mark, the one sure thing about being an Evertonian is that it's an abundantly fertile ground for self-deprecation and gallows humour.

Has he got no other coaches taking sessions with him daily? Can they not run whilst crying or something like that?

Rumour has it too, that Steve Ferns will be out of the safe house by then, and ready to join us! :-)

The lad is probably tired of it all and who could blame him?

Which won't stop me from teasing him about it at some point in the future.

But not now.

I do want someone who understands the fans though because we are so underestimated, and yet the second most important part of the team.

Sorry for bringing our neighbours into this discussion but I have to if I'm going to stress my point, because do you think they would have beat Barcelona last season without that help from their crowd? and the first thing Klopp did when he got the Liverpool job was to make a real point of telling the fans how really important they are.

Fuck me I haven't heard the Everton crowd singing a managers name for years, and even yesterday it wasn't even “Silva out” it was just out, out, out, simply because he's never had a connection with the crowd, which was the same with Allardyce and the same with Koeman as well.

Rumours and trendy lines spread like fire. Lets hope the club have got a plan in place and the silly season is put to bed.

Benitez is not the Fat Spanish Waiter and it's not Fat Sam, coz our new (interim?) manager is a hell of a lot fatter than them two.

I'm still hoping for Rafa (but not gonna happen). I can see Poch at Man Utd

Listening to Dunc the other night he is on a leash at the moment and wants of it. His passion and direction from the bench is limited where it showed under Allardyce.

Just because He was willing to stick his neck out on Silva doesn't mean he should be vilified for it.

He has defended Silva almost all through and taken brickbats for it on TW, but I feel that yesterday was possibly the final straw, and his loyalty has been found to be grossly misplaced.

As Mike G, said Managers and players come and go but we as fans are in it for the long haul, which feels like a life sentence for a sin we did not commit at times.

However I for one hold no animosity towards Steve F, or anyone else on TW for that matter, but in a perverse way admire him for sticking to his guns, and fighting Silva's corner, it is healthy for us all to have differing opinions, but not to fall out.

We are all supporting the same Club and team, although you would not think so at times, but as I have said before it is healthy to discuss and debate and differ too. Like my fiend John McFarlane Snr often says we all watch the same game but often see or interpret things differently.

They are all seperate complaints.

I have a disdain for a DoF having any input into first team afairs as the manager should more than capable and its his head on the line. And he is picking the team so needs control of transfers. If the DoF is ceremonial, ie, like Royle, or in charge of youth development, academy and sports science, then so be it.

As for Brands. The prick didnt get the manager a cb like the manager asked or, a ready-made No 9 we've been crying out for. Add into the fact we sold gana and bought no adequate replacements and he spotted Iwobi haha.

I've nothing against Brands personally I hope he succeeds. But let's be purely logical for a second.

Will PSV always have a period of success? Of course they will? Will there be loads of variables contributing to that success?The main one being they will always be in the top three most powerful clubs in Holland. But let's say you ignore that. And let's assume he's sensible and wise. But he's no soothsayer. He hasn't got a magical formula. He hasn't got access to players the big clubs haven't.

But Moshiri's standing up at an AGM saying:

"I'll buy an 㿼M striker but I just won't pay the wages. They want 𧵬k a week"

He's only saying that because a DoF has told him "I can do this for you. I can sell your best players and replace them." I'd tell Moshiri that for ١-5M a year. It's a fantasy. If it works, Brands fucks off to Man Utd; if it doesn't, he goes back home better off than when he left.

I've never known a DoF to say go and buy that 30-year-old. Because it doesn't show off their talent spotting credentials. There are no short cuts and Brands knows this and needs to tell Moshiri it.

A proper football person would have said: "Pay Gana whatever he wants he cant go, break the bank for Zouma or spend massive on another centre-back, and go and get Giroud." That's just to stand still.

If you want progression, we need an 㿼m winger or a No 10 miles better than Richarlison as well.

Moyes was chief scout and shared the DoF position with Kenwright for all intents and purposes. No money and still done better. Moyes was a negative coach, like I'm not advocating him coming back but a DoF why? Weres it worked?

And why didn't we want Ranieri if we wanted Walsh? We knew Ranieri wasn't a messiah, didn't we? Walsh had fuck all to do with Leicester. It was a fluke season with a million contributing factors.

People find correlations everywhere, hence we have religion. Sheeple is all we are. We need to get past that when analysing things properly imho.

Is Brands cleverer than every Evertonian? He can't even buy a centre-back! He's all style charisma and can't see the woods for the trees himself.

Even before yesterday's game, I was of a mind that Silva be given more time. Before the game, I even posted on the live forum and matchday thread saying even though it wasn't a team I would have picked let's wait and see how things turn out.

Well, 15 minutes into the game It was obvious things needed changing urgently but nothing was done, then when he put Coleman instead of Kean on for Sidibe, that was enough for me to decide he has to go.

You couldn't predict that Delph would get injured; well, I must be psychic as every season he does. We are told weekly that Silva has spent 𧴰 million by the match reporters. Well, from last season thanks to the DOF we have lost the spine of the team and the only of his six purchases to be able to make an impact is Iwobi yet he clearly doesn't convince Silva for whatever reason and wasn't his man.

I understand that both Silva and Brands can be defended due to some rotten luck with key injuries but the seeds of this terrible season began with Brands and Silva has come up with no answers and continues to frustrate by playing unworthy players despite carrying them every week. That Norwich selection and performance was ridiculous.

I totally agree with Paul A Smith that we seem to be just jumping on the wheel with no clear plan and someone suggested that of the last five managers they all have a win rate of between 38-40% in the Premier League. if that's true our problems are much deeper than the man on the sidelines.

The club seems like it it wants to change the manager but by simply changing the face are we just jumping on the wheel directionless again until next year or the year after. If change is coming, let it be a revolution – not Dyche, Moyes or Benitez.

What Conor McCourt @346 said. Nail, head. If anyone argues with that, you must be typing in a lunatic asylum.

Thanks Conor.

On replacing Silva I have absolutely no idea who'd be best. There'll be a queue a mile long to get a few £mill p.a. on a three year contract or whatever, but who among them will have the ability to herd the pussies at FF into a galvanising team will be harder to find than the Holy Grail.

Twas ever thus whilst the Teary One's in the boardroom.

Very good mate, who's nephew plays for U23s has been phoned at home telling him not to turn in tomorrow for training.

Unsworth in temp charge of first team as Silva has been relieved of duties.

Don't shoot the messenger it's just what I've been told.

Where did that come from?! Not sure I followed ALL of your arguments there.

I don't think you, or the other Alan, or Conor for that matter, really know a heck of a lot about what the DoF is tasked with doing. You don't know what free reign - if any - he's given by Moshiri. You don't take into consideration the crap he has to try to move out in order to afford filling the spots we need. You don't know whether he's solely in charge of talent scouting, or if it's a shared responsibility. You don't know what asks have been denied, or what players couldn't be acquired for reasons X, Y, or Z. You don't know the relationship he has with what the manager wants (remember Silva himself said "our offices are across the hall from one another and we speak daily"). You don't know, or won't admit, the mitigating factors that prevented us from getting someone other than Zouma. You don't blame Silva, somehow, for the players Brands did buy, not making an impact while ignoring the fact that he'd have to, you know, play them first. You cast off critical injuries as if they're nothing.

You do know...well, I'm not sure. Maybe what's printed in the sports pages of the Mirror, or the Sun, I guess. You assume a lot though, that part is clear.

To the comment/question around "where has a DoF ever worked before." How about, everywhere else. Fifteen of the 20 EPL teams have one. Including City, Liverpool, Arsenal, the current league darling Leicester, and Tottenham. Moving outside the EPL, clubs such as Bayern Munich, Borussia Dortmund, Ajax, Juventus, Roma, Napoli, Barcelona, Real Madrid, PSG...I'll stop there. Perhaps we have a different definition of "work well," but apparently, the DoF is a highly valuable and regarded position amongst quite literally, the best clubs in the world.

Ut, sorry, the next lunatic needs the laptop. Until we meet again...

Mitigating facts (that you don't know about either) for not getting someone other than Zouma spells out how you missed the point.

You haven't a clue if all those clubs you mentioned have Directors of football sign players either.

You really believe PSG needed a director of football to scout Neymar and Mbappe. Or City to buy De Bruyne.

They obviously do have different tasks and agendas. Ours told us he was partly there to provide the coach with players to work with. He did but not the ones he wanted or needed.

Thanks for that Derek. I too have nothing against Steve but, if you spend all your time lauding someone and pointing out (albeit very nicely) how he sees the big picture, and us lesser mortals don't then personally I think you should have (as my old mother used to say) the courage of your convictions and face the music.

I have half a kilo of very ripe tomatoes with Mr Fern's name on them and they're waiting to be thrown.

[(Disclaimer) The above post is meant (partly) in jest, having met Steve, and finding him to be a jolly nice bloke, I wouldn't dream of pelting him with half a kilo of tomatoes, not when you could add 'em to a decent chilli con carne.]

It's nonsense. They have a game on Tuesday.

He was clearly as sick as the rest of us, probably even more so given the high hopes he had of Silva.

Steve has been the catalyst for some fantastic and fierce debates on here. He is entitled to sit it out for a couple of days. I hope when he does post, he comes out swinging.

I look forward to seeing him on here again.

If it is Unsworth taking over as a caretaker for a week or two, that could mean Benitez has been approached to come after the Chinese season finishes on 1 December.

I think deep down Steve knows he has many friends on here, and I have met Steve personally at the TW Get togethers, amongst many other regular posters, which I can wholeheartedly recommend attending for those who live relatively close. Having said that Andy Crooks has travelled from Belfast to attend before! Kudos to him for that.

Not sure when the next one will be, but there will definitely be one when Mike Gaynes comes over again from Oregon, to meet up probably March/April time.

A new Managerial appointment and some decent performances in the meantime falling on an appropriate Saturday/Sunday kick-off time could see another before then.

No fucker could come in and turn this shambles around instantly, but you don't have to leave these pages to see the knives are already being sharpened for him.

People are screaming for the instant removal of Silva. Do they want to go into the next game with no one in charge ?
We are extremely fortunate to have someone who would be brave enough to step in and all some people can do is batter away before he has even been mentioned.

Unsworth didnt put us in this shit. He never has done. When you read about these morons who throw stones at the fire brigade, you shake your head in disbelief

It has to be Eddie Howe.

Moyes was not successful; to me, he was barely adequate, and totally pusillanimous. He was not then a good manager and will not be in the future.

Alan @367 tsk tsk, such language! Despite your hard-headedness and self-admittedly being dead-set against the DOF role, to which I provided several relevant counterpoints, I didn't stoop to your level. Interesting you bring up "defending a non-Blue." Errr, who do you defend then? They're all non-Blues, from Moshiri on down to the players. Can't have it both ways. I guess Kenwright is a Blue, for the fat lot of good that's done us.

I'll just chalk it up to being fed up with the current situation, and let you off the hook for being grumpy.

I sometimes think Steve trying to make sense on T/W, must resemble Silva trying to make sense on the training ground, but only one of them will be financially better off from tomorrow, and Steve will be getting it rubbed in his face off a few, for years.

Good shout !

Mark G (various) - You must surely now be aware why some fans attribute some blame to Brands; Derek at 289 does a pretty decent job of outlining one argument as to how this summer's transfer activities left us short in a few key areas - Sam Hoare has been saying the same all season long, despite a lot of general support for Brands on here. Alan Smith (367) has laid it out pretty sharply too. In future a better system might be to spend more time reading other people's posts and considering their arguments rather than rushing to reply; quality not quantity and all that.

I hope Steve Ferns is just having a well-earned day off. I would welcome the thoughts of Paul Ferry and Ken Buckley too if they still check in.

He cannot win but he will do his duty. He will not trot off with millions in compensation because he will be honoured to help his club.

Frankly, if I was him, I wouldn't touch it. But, God help him, he will.

I suppose some of it comes down to how you rate the players Brands has brought on. Gomes? Hurt. Gbamin? Hurt. Bernard? Hurt. Richarlison? One of the only guys we have who can/is scoring even a little bit. Mina? Before yesterday many were lauding him as our to-date POY. Digne? Universally loved, or so it seemed. Iwobi? Literally one of our only offensive bright spots. Sidibe? A cheap loan until we see if we have something in Kenny. Kean? Let's not even go there until we have a manager who'll play him.

Brands had nothing to do with Pickford, Schneiderlin, Keane, Coleman, Sigurdsson, Tosun, Walcott, and to a lesser degree, Holgate, DCL, Davies. Koeman/Walsh spent a ghastly 𧶲m the summer before Brands came on, mostly on players that don't deserve to be in the EPL, let alone wearing a Blues kit; does he not deserve some slack for trying to clean things up while at the same time building a team that can compete for years to come, not just months? I'm sorry but I just don't see how he's being blamed.

Those who point to "didn't get this," or "didn't get that" don't know why anymore than anyone else who doesn't work for EFC. The blame is based on assumptions yet I'm a c*nt for pointing this out. Ok then.

Conor @386 thank you. We may disagree you and I, but I'm not calling you naughty words. :-)

At any other club, he would be given 100% support from the fan base.

There's something twisted about this club, support is slowly being replaced by an overwhelming desire to be right.

I have nothing but respect for him, but he is a complete mug if he puts himself on the line for these people.

I see many other teams such as Sheff.Utd. today who possess more intensity and desire than any Everton starting eleven this season and they are a promoted team made up of no-names with the only name player being a 37-year-old Jagielka.

Now, let's be honest: on paper Everton have the talent to match most teams but seem out of sorts as a team and individually which Silva and his aides have been unable to put right in any shape or form. Forget past managers and get someone in as nobody can be as ineffective as this guy.

Yes, we've had injuries. Yes, some of the squad he inherited have continued to be poor. Yes, other people also are ripe for criticism – across the board, maybe especially the Board themselves. It's all guesswork as to who is precisely to blame for individual decisions.

What isn't guesswork is that we have a squad and a manager that do not currently seem fit for the purpose of finishing in the top 8 of the Premier League, and Brands absolutely has to take some of that responsibility.

As for Brands's recruitment, I'd say that Digne and Richarlison are the only ones who have been successful acquisitions and have probably increased in market value (and Richarlison's signing was probably as much down to Silva as any other factor). The others are largely still to prove themselves (some unfortunately due to injury) or have been found wanting.

You made the excellent point that we don't know the finances and budget restrictions etc, so we can't be totally certain on culpability.

However, of those successful signings you mentioned above, they were all last summers for which Brands rightly got praise and you don't mind jumping on that. I was as gushing as any other Evertonian. In addition, he acted with class and a vision and clear strategy that impressed us all.

This summer for me was totally different and he has no doubt left us significantly weaker short term and the jury is still out on whether he has improved us at all in the long run. That will mostly depend on the success of Kean and Gbamin.

I am still hopeful that he will learn from a very badly planned window and will produce some atonement in January... whether that will be of use to Silva seems unlikely.

He has so far made no major mistakes – Silva wasn't his hire, and none of the players he has brought in has yet proved a blunder. Digne, Gomes, Richarlison, Mina, Delph, Iwobi, Gbamin and Sidibe are all (or should be) starters when healthy, which is a hell of a remake in less than a season and a half. His critics seem to hold him to an absolute standard for the part of the job he has not yet completed (since he didn't sign Zouma and a 20-goal striker in the last window, he's a failure), but I think that's unfair.

I believe he has done very, very well and I want to see his full body of work. I've said it before and I'll say it again, I think our best signing in recent years will prove to be Mr Brands himself.

There will be someone somewhere sleeping under cardboard in a shop doorway who deserves a go as Everton Manager before Moyes.

Meghan McKenna still odds on to win Celebrity X Factor.

Can you imagine the atmosphere at his first game back in the dugout? How would the players feel playing for a manager a large part of the crowd cannot stand? He'd be on borrowed time from the off. Surely the hierarchy know there is not a lot of love at GP for that man. It would be stupidly of the highest order to reappoint him imo and would show the usual contempt the board has held for the masses for many a year.

I write the above then remember we put Allardyce in the dug out!

Of course Davey would jump at the chance - no other prem club would dream of touching him.

Meanwhile Liverpool have a manager who takes them to the top and the one they thought wasn't quite good enough has his team second.

We are opposites.

Jeez - I hope that's not the reason we're still with Silva, haggling over the length of contract for Moyes and not looking for anyone else!

There are loads of other managers out there who would be better, why are we seemingly prostrating ourselves in front of yet another looser. Have we not learnt anything from the Allardyce episode? I'm really beginning to question how Moshiri made his money and whether he's just a puppet for someone else - he doesn't seem to be very bright, not at least in the footballing world.

Moyes is finished as is Benitez btw but more important Benitez is more concerned accumulating wealth and not arsed about the game anymore ( as proved by abandoning his family to move to 1984 for a fat pay cheque) shocking

Eddie Howe is the right man to deliver our Great Club to its shinny new stadium playing attacking football, He is within our reach, wont cost a bomb, wont need 200mil on signings, is in his prime as a manager , and is one of US

And he fucking DESERVES it, he has served his apprentiship and would be his dream job, Do the right thing and good things will happen

Eddies the man

We should be bold!

Not only is it feasible but its not regressive /desperate liks some of the suggestions (Moyes, Benitez) or alice in fcking wonderland ( Pip Neville I have heard mentioned)

Eddies the man, he will have the goodwill of all in the game for me

Conor @392 you do have a fair argument. I was a bit higher on this past summer than you, but was also of the opinion that not securing a CB, or CM, was a big miss. I know I keep going back to this well, but surely it can't be easy to be buying and selling at the same time, to get the "perfect" squad. Maybe that's exactly what he's being paid to do, I don't know, but with BMD most likely clouding Moshiri's vision, I highly doubt Brands has £300m to play with every summer. I guess I'm saying, in short, he's doing the best he can with what he's been given. Could you imagine trying to move on most/all of those Koeman/Walsh signings, at even 50% of our transfer fee investment? And forget about getting EFC off the hook for their wages. The 6 guys I mentioned are on more than £500k/week pay. No team in the world is going to pay for that. It's like owning stock in Enron.

Maybe it'll look significantly better once we can actually play:

Pickford
Sidibe Holgate Mina Digne
Gbamin Iwobi Gomes
Richarlison Kean Bernard

I might be too "rosy outlook" here but that is a side that screams top 6 without much issue. Now imagine adding 2-3 additional high quality parts. We'd be cooking with gas. Thank you for debating this like an adult.

Oh, but don't pin much hope on January's window. Brands doesn't like to spend then, presumably because sellers overcharge buyers to the point where they're really poor investments (see; Tosun & Walcott).

Steve Ferns has always projected a viable long term plan for Everton. This is the only way Everton will ever progress and Silva was given a three year contract for this same reason by Moshiri. It was expected that there would be ups and down, especially with a basket case like Everton.

The essential ingredient of this plan was to have a stable management team to progress the plan. Silva in his first season seem to be gradually heading in the right direction, as Steve pointed out in his many posts, with supporting and detailed stats.

There have been glimpses this season that maybe the progress train could have been put back on the tracks on the field. Steve analysis counted on what could be immediately acted upon on the field of play. It did not propose to deal with the internal Management that could not immediately acted on, which he was right not concern himself with.

What has happened is that Silva has been overwhelmed and going by the Norwich game had given up. So all the positives of his career at Everton have evaporated pretty well over the International break.

Not only did Everton get beat by Norwich, but the necessary long term plan that Steve has promoted on ToffeeWeb with Silva at the helm, in my opinion correctly, is now in tatters and Everton are now at another crossroads that Steve Ferns never wanted them to be at. Which we all would agree with.

It is now necessary that Everton take the RIGHT road at this crossroads and continue on this necessary long term plan and the new Manager is fully supported in a way that Steve Ferns would correctly advocate, as he has always done throughout his posts and articles on ToffeeWeb.

Steve Ferns was correct in his assessments, but the capulation by Silva in the Norwich game was complete and the whole squad bought into it, with in my opinion with the help of the backroom staff. This would never be expected to happen against the positive sediments of Steve Ferns posts.

Steve Ferns opinion is still right, attacking his positive support of the Everton Manager who is responsible for the implement of this opinion is not.

@Jerome 409
I have alot of respect for Steve he puts alot of work into his posts and is a valuble member of TW, I am not about to start laying the boot into him, there is enough herd mentality on this site as is, but I feel that if you look hard enough you can find stats to support any arguement,

For me the Norwich results is last in a long line of last straws, I have watched more or less all of Silvas games and even if he scrapes some results in next 6 he is not good enough it is blatantly obvious to me, and no stats can convince me otherwise

Steve stats where in support of a plan, now how it was be implemented, which was being his control. With Everton a plan was never going to be clear cut in implementation.

Mark G (408) - You're all over the place fella. After repeatedly asking for some sort of explanation as to why people might be being critical of Brands you now say "I was a bit higher on this past summer than you, but was also of the opinion that not securing a CB, or CM, was a big miss." A big miss? Can you see the lack of through-line in your argument? You were pro-Silva a few days ago, and now you're in the Silva out camp. I'm starting to suspect that you are actually just a computer programme built by ToffeeWeb to try to increase posts on threads...

Had Brands been involved in the Silva appointment I'd be among the first to be calling for his head. If, as a Board Member and DoF, he believes Moyes or Hughes is a sensible appointment I will want him sacked. But only after Kenwright is finally shoved out the door first.

It would be a measure of our leadership's gross incompetence if poor old Unsworth is being lined up to again act as caretaker weeks too late ahead of the worst December fixture list of any club. If he is being thrown to the wolves again he will have my total support whatever happens next month because none of it will be his fault.

I will take him ahead of most and most definitely the Treacherous one

Signed,
A computer program

Things are going to get far more hostile on here if Moyes is hired, even on an interim basis. Half of the fan base despise him, so if the club wants to pull this club together go look elsewhere.

He's crap.

On here I recall a poll of possible candidates for potential managers.

What I also recall was a thread called something like,
"My No ! No !! NO !!! List".
I think that's worth revisiting.

BTW, I heard down the pub tonight from a bloke who knows a coach of some description (apparently) at FF that Marco is deffo a gonner.

Make as much or little of that as you wish, personally I expect that to be ratified by lunch tomorrow.

If I was Mosh I would see this as an insult, and at least make an appointment that does not stink of desperation

Eddies the man ;)

As for Brands, you said (281) "I'm still waiting for someone, anyone, to explain to me where Brands is at fault." And then you've said in (408) that you were "also of the opinion that not securing a CB, or CM, was a big miss." I can join the dots for you if you want me to, but I really shouldn't have to.

Re: Brands. Ok, I will concede that in asking for where Brands is at fault multiple times, and then listing the ONE reason I felt he was at fault, that it can be interpreted as inconsistent on my part. Kind of. What about all the reasons, of which there are many, I listed as to why he's not at fault? Those continue to be ignored. So he's batting. 950. Damn the man for not batting 1.000!!

11 years we had dreary one up front nick a goal and hang on football. No away wins at big clubs. Not even a penalty win or own goal off someone's arse. Nothing.

I despise Moyes. I despise his football and if he comes back it's finished for me after 40 years. Finito. End. No more. Divorce.

You even agree to an extent then argue against your own agreement.
We are talking Marcel Brands here not some boy band member, (though he does look a bit of a Simon Cowell)
He will make mistakes like every human. Its just important every mistake at our club ia accountable.

Following on from that any temporary appointment should only be that and have a Contract which is written accordingly. (ie, 6 months)

I just didn't get the Allardyce appointment from the off, but to give an eighteen month Contract when it was pre-conceived his remit was to get Everton to safety, but to make the Club responsible for another Compensation Bundle smacks of total irresponsibility.

The question is one of accountability and the focus is on his impact on the squad from last season to this.

You start your defence by saying he has been much better than his predecessors Walsh and Martinez. Firstly in the case of Walsh any DOF in world football would do a better job as would his granny probably. Martinez never had that role and never had Moshiris outlay so to compare those is fruitless as it's like saying City's DOF are better than Sheffield because they got Aguero and Utd only got McGoldrick.

I will actually use your own arguments for promoting his work over 18 months and apply it to the debate at hand

1- no major mistakes:
a] he brings in 6 players for 120 million of which only Gomes is a GUARANTEED starter if all were fit. The coach started one of the six in his last game so you can argue how many have been a success and that was probably a reflection of Colemans deficiencies than Sidibe's impact. People will quite rightly point to two really unfortunate injuries but many of the six are quite injury prone regardless and Gomes and Delph were already on the sick list this season.

b] he sells our best player for 30 million and even if Gbamin turns out to be Claude Makele it would have taken a minimum of 6 months to get up to the speed of the prem. The manager wanted Doucoure to help lessen Gueyes loss and not severely weaken the spine of the team.

c] he is unfortunate not to acquire the rock of our defence from last season but is liable for not replacing him leaving two similar centre backs who won't work together and a young centre back who West Brom had thought too weak to play that position only a few months earlier. He also didn't retain Jags as any decent strategist would until the Tomori deal was finalised.

2-bringing young talent:
Out of the 6 he brought in only 3 were younger than 25 the age range he highlighted previously. 3 young talents in Henry,Vlasic and Lookman were let go as well as a few with promise like Robinson. Had Jags not left the age of the squad would have went up.

3-clear deadwood:
The only player Brands was able to shift who didn't have a contract and is off the books was James McCarthy. A highly talented injury prone international who had seen better days...his replacement Fabian Delph, you couldn't make it up.

In summary Michael you may ascribe no blame to Brands but I bet Silva in his farewell speech will fairly let rip.

Pick up on anything good that Jamie Redknapp says and someone will say behave he talks shite. People become obsessed and can't grasp that even a loon, a fool or a liar can say something true or correct.

This is where we are with Brands. Lots of blokes fell in love with his good deals last season, combined with that lovely suit and cool dutch voice, so now he can do no wrong. The same people who want the manager to admit his errors won't admit Brands has made mistakes

This is all pure Everton and it will continue forever while we leave out lots of details.

So what do we do, buy some shite from them, one we didn't even need. Same as Lukaku, Mancs one place above us and we sell our only asset to them.

What a message. Now we all know he wanted to leave before that comes back at me but a side wanting to go places would have said, fine big baby, but you won't be going to our nearest rivals. See your witch doctor.

Not this club though.

Saying that I've admitted he made one mistake as evidence that he should be blamed for everything is, I don't even have the words to describe what it is. Please re-read by explanation to Andrew @421. The entire comment, not the one sentence that supports your narrative. Once you do, please answer why that one mistake negates everything else I've noted multiple times over.

If you're suggesting that he has to be 100% perfect, then I will suggest that you're not being realistic.

In an analagous example, what are your feelings about Kenwright? How about Moshiri? Do you have a 100% perfect manager you'd like to appoint? Since every mistake counts and you're striving for perfection, I'd like to know if this is a blanket expectation, or just for Brands.

There's one huge aspect to your position that appears to be a rather large inconsistency though. This: "he brings in 6 players for 120 million of which only Gomes is a GUARANTEED starter if all were fit. The coach started one of the six in his last game so you can argue how many have been a success..."

Guaranteed by whom, exactly? Gbamin was brought in to start. Iwobi was brought in to start. Delph, like it or not, was brought in to start. Kean was brought in to eventually start. And since you did bring up Gomes, which c'mon, was a 2018 acquisition, then Mina, Bernard & Richarlison were all brought in to start. You used Silva not starting them as evidence that they were bad signings, but if I've read your tea leaves properly, you trust Silva's decision-making ability about as much as you trust Brands. So why does Silva not using these players matter one bit when you evaluate Brands? You agree that Silva's an idiot and a manager with a brain would absolutely be using them, no? And again, 3 of them are injured as you're aware.

When Silva starts the Koeman/Walsh guys, like vs Norwich, we get boring, insipid football and we lose. When Silva starts Brands signings, we get creative, inspired football, and at least have a chance of winning. Our worst game: Norwich; 7 Walsh signings. Our best game: West Ham; 7 Brands signings.

There have been a number of confounding factors, namely injuries to key players, terrible officiating against us, players who were in-form last season being out-of-form so far this season, losing key players, and failing to sign needed extra players. These factors really make any assessment of our current situation, in terms of criticism of the current manager or the chances of a new manager remedying matters, largely futile.

People seem to be suggesting every Tom, Dick and Harry as a potential new manager, without any real substantially convincing argument. It just looks like the usual panic discussions and relegation talk typical of the last 5 years.

The spine of the team was based around the Keane/Zouma partnership and the Gueye/Gomes axis. Both of these strengths are now weaknesses and had it not been for Holgate and Davies stepping up to the plate we would be in real trouble and that's nothing either Brands or Silva can take credit for.

I was speaking about guarantees with relation to their success. All 6 were obviously bought to play but only Gomes has cemented a role though Gbamin has been injured. The youngsters are the ones whose performances have forced themselves into the team yet the new arrivals haven't. I agree Iwobi deserves to play on form and he's been decent but for 35 million you want a little more.

I disagree regarding Delph. I believe he was brought to provide cover especially in Gbamins settling in period which was flawed considering how injury prone he is.

By the way Mark you are making assumptions that are incorrect by saying that I have said anyone was a bad signing except for Delph and that is due to his injury record.

The season is halfway through so your arguments about Kean and Gbamin coming good are an irrelevant discussion. I'm hoping Kean will still be a superstar as well as Gbamin. But that hasn't helped our season so far which is what the discussion is about.

I don't think Silva is an idiot but I do think he should be under pressure for his performances and I'm losing faith but that doesn't mean Brands should not be called to account. Comparing Brands signings and Walsh signings is smoke and mirrors again even if it is a point well made.

He failed

"Indeed, the only way seeing Moyes walk back through the gates of Goodison as manager would be remotely palatable to the majority of Blues would be if it came with a cast iron, irrevocable guarantee that it would only be until the end of the season and no more."

As for Moyes saving us as from relegation nothing in life other than tax and death are certain. As for using Sunderland as a measure well that speaks itself it was almost an impossible task at the stage he took over. Probably a dumb move on his behalf.
It's the irrational hate for a man did a very good job for us that I find dispicable.

If he doesn't believe they were priority positions I don't know how he could even think about talking Everton. Brands obviously didn't prioritise those positions.

And once again I praised him the year before for getting the left back we needed of good quality and the centre half needed to fills Jagielkas space.

This year he can kiss my arse. The quality brought is lower standard than last years signings and what we lost this year, we didn't need a rebuilding job after a fantastic run of form to finish the season.

Speaking of mad, Paul, I'm now questioning if you can comprehend what I've said, at least 3 times now.

Please show me where I said any of the above. And then go address every single other point I've asked you to multiple times now. And maybe answer the questions I specifically asked you (politely) to. Your own words were "every mistake counts" so I'm still left wondering if you apply that mandate to multiple other aspects of the Club, or just Brands.

We are definitely on the same page for one thing though, giving up. Cheers, enjoy your supper.

I think it's a backwards step. My opinion has been based on football managing ability. He served us well and is what we probably needed from 2002 until about 2009. To appoint him now is unimaginative, lacks ambition and a step backwards.

Notwithstanding his dreadful record since leaving Everton, in honest, when we needed / wanted to push on, he wasn't the person to do it. He doesn't have winning mentality.

And no hate on my part James, I'm just judging him on his ability and record. Again, to repeat myself, I was a massive supporter / defender for the majority of his reign. But, I don't want to go back to that. I want us to push on beyond the 7th / 8th label we've have for the majority of his tenure and those after him. That's surely why we're all frustrated so why would we go back to accepting that level of mediocracy. Again, no hatred, that's just Moyes' level.... at best.

Moyes might not be a popular appointment but he'd be more popular than having to keep Silva. I don't think it's that feasible for us to go for a manger that's currently employed. Our options are limited to those available or putting the noses out of Bournemouth or Man City.

It's more likely Moyes on a short term contract. I hold no grudge towards him and l would much prefer him than having to hang on to Silva. Silva really is so far out of his depth it's not funny. No idea what Moshiri was thinking, and to think he chased him for so long. Beggars belief.

In all fairness, Allardyce might well have had us in a better league position now - but I don't think I could stomach the football.

Change yes; but make it meaningful and direction changing. I appreciate this is hopeful and unlikely to happen, but take Blue Bill & Moshiri & away from footballing decisions; leave this one to Brands. His player recruitment has been good. No excuses, but you can't deny our dreadful luck with injuries. Is it me or do Liverpool just not get injuries to key players?!! Separate debate, I apologise for my bitter blueness creeping in!!

As others have pointed out above, when they are fit and play we are better. Let him source the manager too. Then we can really judge him as a Director of Football if that is the model we are adopting. Let him be one and control football matters without the interference of an overly emotionally involved Chairman who can't look outside of Premier League maybes / also has beens & nostalgia, which is influencing the decision making process of the main investor. Let him be in control of not just the players we buy, but the coach we employ to coach and manage them.

I'm sure Norwich would be tempted by Moyes - after all he has kept two clubs in the prem under difficult circumstances - us and West Ham.

I don't even want Moyes and this forum has me defending him.

Sure, he made himself a glass ceiling - but he wasn't the devil incarnate - does everything have to be so polar ?

He would be an unambitious appointment for sure but could he steady the ship ?

I thought his West Ham stint was reasonable. For example, look how he turned around Arnautovic.

Martinez. Premier League experience but got Wigan relegated.
Koeman. Premier League experience. Done okay with Southampton.
Allardyce. Premier League experience. Dreadful.
Silva. Premier League experience. Got Hull relegated & sulked at Watford.

However:

Sir Alex Ferguson: No Premier League (okay top flight English football) experience until his first appointment at Manchester United.

Arsne Wenger: No Premier League experience until his first appointment at Arsenal.

Jose Mourinho: No Premier League experience until his first appointment at Chelsea.

Jurgen Klopp: No Premier League Experience until his first appointment at Liverpool.

Mauricio Pochettino: No Premier League experience until Southampton took a gamble on him which led to his Tottenham appointment.

Think outside. Think broader. Think bigger & more ambitious that David Moyes and 2007 nostalgia or "must have Premier League experience".

We are all assuming Moshiri and Kenwright will sack Silva, I am not so sure but with a run ahead that would test an Everton team at its very best, the omens do not look good for him, or us.

The choice facing the club is stark, get someone in and hopefully get a bounce before Christmas or stick with him, and that will be a last chance saloon as post Christmas we could be sitting in the bottom three or close(r) to it.

The issue is who next.. who will get us out of this mess? Who is available, who would we want? (Never mind the why... we are in this mess...) The fat Spanish waiter? Well he is allegedly now the third highest paid manager in the world.. so we missed that boat..
Arteta? A gamble.. and a big one.. but he would have the love and backing of the fans.. his number two would probably be tiny Tim...

One thing is certain, Father Christmas is coming with a sack.. with Silva's P45..

And you reminded me of the most obvious omission from my list:

Pep Guadiola: No Premier League experience until his first appointment at Manchester City.

Previous Premier League experience is not a pre-requisite!

I cannot see it myself?

Moshiri could surely have been in contact with Wenger weeks ago given this has been on the cards. Its not a big list of available options.

The players also have to take the blame, formations are not set in stone and team meetings should offer the chance to put obvious points about the failures forward.

I believe the Allardyce disaster has saved Silva more than anything he seems capable of producing with these players.

Firstly it's a very bold statement to assume the majority of Evertonians partake in contributing to social media sites. Secondly many of those that do are the same. I know quite few who do not share your view.

Toffeweb unfortunately has many that voice negatively towards Everton. People are entitled to their opinion thats fine. But this site particularly is not a great representation of Evertonians and after Twitter is likely to be on the more uncouth sites.

That may not be reflected in your circle of Blue acquaintances, it might not square with your views and you may have a beef with the perceived negativity on this site (I contend that we have opinion that runs the gamut but it's always the criticism that gets highlighted) but I think I'm with the majority in my views on this one.