Any dream will do...

Darren Hind 19/12/2019 127comments  |  Jump to last
At first glance, Carlo Ancelotti has a seriously impressive CV... but still many Blues remain unconvinced. How good a manager is he? One of the best? How come so many top or world-class players have disliked playing for him? How come he's been sacked more times than a light-fingered barman?

When I look at Ancelotti's track record, the number of times he has been sacked isn't the only thing that strikes me. How many times has he left a club in better shape than they were when he arrived? And has there ever been a manager who has inherited so many world class players?

Let's be fair here. Ancelotti has proven that, if you give him enough world-class players, he will deliver success... but, after that initial success, it never seems to end well.

He first came to my attention when I was watching my then weekly fix of Italian football. I remember thinking what a cool customer he was after it had been reported that the services of Roberto Baggio had been secured for him... but he turned his nose up. He didn't want him. I was gobsmacked. "Wow!" I thought, "This is a guy with too much talent on his hands."

In fairness, he did have people like Zola, Stoichkov, Chiesa and Crespo to fall back on if he needed a goal. However, he couldn't make the free-spirited Zola or Stoichkov fit into his rigid system and soon they were on their way. In the meantime, Baggio ran riot elsewhere. Ancelotti later admitted he had made a huge mistake... but, by then, everyone in Italy already knew it. He was sacked.

Ancelotti is one of those people who always comes up smelling of roses. Being sacked did not prevent him from landing the Milan gig. Once again, he was being asked to create a successful team, using some of the most gifted players on the planet. Pirlo. Rui Costa, Rivaldom Shevchenko, Kaka... At the back, he had what many believe to be the best back four ever assembled: Cafu, Costacurta, Nesta, Maldini. Throw in Gatusso and Clarence Seedorf.

Despite the galaxy of stars at his disposal, He could only watch as a Liverpool side which, on paper, didn't belong on the same pitch, overturned a 3-0 deficit to take the biggest prize. Yeah, he partially redeemed himself next time around, but for many Milan fans, it was no more than they expected.

Last time Ancelotti stepped foot inside Goodison Park, he was sacked before he could leave. Again, after inheriting a fantastic defence, marshalled by John Terry and guaranteed goals from Drogba and Lampard, he was deemed to have been found wanting. It was "goodnight" from Roman Abramovich.

As ever, our boy landed on his feet. Paris offered him another fortune to do what is known within the horse racing fraternity as a "steering job".

Next stop: Madrid. He really had to slum it this time. I mean, what is a coach supposed to do with no-hopers like Di Maria, Bale and Ronaldo? Once again, he was sacked. Surely that was the end for him??? Nope! The Germans had not had their turn yet.

It was widely reported that a delegation of Bayern Munich's senior pros called a meeting with the clubs hierarchy to tell them they simply could not work with this dinosaur... Carlo is sacked – again! The subsequent situation at Napoli has been well-documented and we all know how it ended, so I won't dwell.

It would be wrong to talk about this remarkable man and his remarkable career without talking about his high points too. The highs were really high and there were quite a few of them. That much has to be recognised; but is Ancelotti's star is on the slide? The big boys are no longer interested.

Duncan Ferguson has brought back to Everton that cant-wait-for-the-next-game feeling. The club is alive. The Old Lady is rocking again.

When Big Sam told us this week that he was given the go-ahead to sack Ferguson if he didn't like what he saw, but chose not to because he was so impressed by his intelligence and coaching ability. He was just the latest in a steady stream of in-the-know people laying waste to the ill-informed claim that Ferguson was "stealing a living".

The coaching staff love him. The players love him. The fans love him... People "stealing a living" don't get that sort of love and respect.

Of course, most of you will be aware that these unsubstantiated accusations are not reserved solely for Ferguson. It would appear that anyone who has played for the club is deemed to be "stealing a living" by a certain section of the fanbase. It as if being an Evertonian is a sin. Every one of them is tarred with the same brush as Kenwright. The club is rotten because some of the junior coaches once played for the club? You just couldn't make it up.

Everton's decline has nothing to do with ex-players; it has everything to do with the steady stream of outside mercenaries who have been paid fortunes to sign crap players and produce pug-ugly football.

The Big Yin has generated more passion and pride in a fortnight than Silva, Allardyce, Koeman and Martinez could muster between them in 5 years. Of course, passion and pride aren't enough – there has to be some tactical acumen. Otherwise, people recognised as top tacticians and bright young coaches (like Solskjaer, Lampard and Rodgers) would take him to the cleaners. They didn't.

Ferguson is ready to lead this great club forward and the overwhelming majority of the fanbase is ready to get behind him. He unites the club. Who knows how far he could take us? We'll never know if we don't give it a go...

I dread getting up to the news that Ancelotti has been confirmed as the new Everton boss. Him failing at Goodison is not simply a possibility; I believe it to be a certainty... a forgone conclusion.

If the guy struggles to make Stoichkov and Zola work, what earthly chance has he got of getting a tune out of our strike force? After working with the likes of Kaka, Zidane, and Ronaldo, what is he going to do with the lamentable Iwobi, Sigurdsson, Schneiderlin and Walcott?

After managing and often failing with some of the game's finest defenders, what would he be able to do with the woeful Mina and Keane? Get his son to coach them???

And does anybody really think the rich clubs are going to step aside and let us purchase all the top talent simply because we have a "proven winner"?

I pray tonight that somebody will stop this madness.

When you are trying to build a mansion, first, you have to buy the land; then you talk to an architect. You bring in the builders to lay the foundations and start the build. Then you get decorators in. After that, you may want to call an interior designer. Then, and only then, would you try to persuade a rich playboy to pay you a fortune to live in your mansion.

What you don't do, is squander all your capital from the get-go, by paying the playboy and his son a king's ransom to come and make a go of your building site.

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Reader Comments (127)

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Bob Parrington
1 Posted 20/12/2019 at 04:54:18
Darren. Wow! maybe nobody has woken up yet in UK or, otherwise there might be an avalanche of comments on this page already. For me, it's 3.10pm in Adelaide at a temperature of 45C with serious bush fires around the state and catastrophic weather conditions with high wind, a cool change with dry lightening likely to create worse fires. Seems to sum up the fire and brimstone of your article, which is so out of tune with the majority of posts on ToffeeWeb in regard to Ancelotti.

Fantastic to have a juxtaposed view, Darren. I can't wait until Steve Ferns responds to the claims you've made. it will be some theatre. I don't have the corresponding "fact skills" to take on either of you in this case.

What I do have is an understanding of team building and creation, which doesn't happen overnight but does start with the first step. The art of putting a team together, strengths and weaknesses, abilities and strength of character, speed in positions and pure class at making a pass, amongst other attributes, matching the hard worker with the shear creator are all down to the manager/coach - whether high profile or amateur - they's the same but perhaps with significantly larger egos to handle in such as EPL.

One thing Ancelotti has demonstrated is the ability to bring the various players together to form a winning team - time and time again.

Big Dunc is a man for the future leadership of Everton. Certainly I agree with you about how he has created belief in the side and supporters. But, he himself, has stated that he is not ready to be the full time boss. Here is a man who understands his current place and knows where he wants to go. For him, learning under Ancelotti is like Arteta learning under Pep Guardiola!

Drew O'Neall
2 Posted 20/12/2019 at 05:12:51
Well researched and written, Darren.

I pray you’re wrong but suspect you aren’t.

I would give it to the Big Yin. He has demonstrated that he is tactically astute to compliment the fact the players and fans love and support him.

Andy McNabb
3 Posted 20/12/2019 at 05:14:21
Darren, I wish with all my heart that you were wrong but you have articulated my thoughts and I fear that your words will come back to haunt us.

Wow - when the UK gets up, you had better have your crash helmet ready.

Bob, its only 34c here in Victoria but forecast to get to more like 40c by 5pm. Stay safe.

Derek Thomas
4 Posted 20/12/2019 at 06:13:24
It must be something in the air here downunder. I've already come out on another thread as deep down wanting Ferguson to have a decent run at it for mainly sentimental grounds.

And as I don't (didn't until now, thanks Darren - It's all about perception and perspective, so I expect the same facts to be presented later in a better light) know much fact about the nuts and bolts of his career, except the bits I was exposed to via Chelsea, where I thought there might be extenuating circumstances, Terry, The Chairman etc. I'm not a 'believer' just at best 'agnostic'.

The more I think about it...not withstanding the worry that the Director of Football is being trumped (no impeachment available here) by the Owner in a Pre-Christmas...'and I bought for myself' vanity signing.

Then there's these rumours of Zlatan, yeah he could do a short term job and we've paid more for worse. But if it comes off, it really SCREAMS Vanity signing.

Most signings are a gamble. We maybe could've done with Ancelotti after Martinez's 1st season or even his last. Who knows.

I honestly don't know. How many expensive false dawns can this Club stand. I'm a true Doubting Thomas...I want to believe - But.

One game at a time.

Mike Gaynes
5 Posted 20/12/2019 at 06:16:22
Wow, Darren, I'm so glad you've squared up the real Carlo for the mediocrity he is. Brilliant to go into detail on all of the sackings and barely mention that he did win a few things. Obviously it must be sheer luck that in between all those sackings he took home three Champions Leagues, two FIFA Club World Cups and titles and/or cups in England, Italy, Germany, Spain and France.

Just for the record, he didn't inherit all those great players on each of those clubs -- he attracted and brought in quite a few himself, and showed his eye for talent with some intelligent decisions. For example, when he arrived at Real Madrid he quickly dispatched the two overrated turds Ozil and Higuain, and with the money he brought in Bale. Worked out pretty good. CL title and the Copa Del Rey.

Yeah, he's got a pattern of either losing the dressing room or pissing off the owner after two seasons. But his clubs have a hell of a good time for those seasons. And as to your question "How many times has he left a club in better shape than they were when he arrived?", the answer is four of the last five. He took a Chelsea side that had finished third under Hiddink and lifted them to the title and then runnerup. PSG, Real Madrid and Napoli were all better off at the end of his tenure than the start. (Not Bayern.)

Naw, I won't be heartbroken if he doesn't come aboard -- I'd honestly be more excited about us taking a chance on a young up-and-comer as Arsenal is doing with Arteta -- but I think your dismissal of Ancelotti as an inevitable failure is just plain ridiculous.

As for Dunc, I know you have an affinity for the old Blues -- I believe you previously campaigned intensely for Rhino -- but I'm unconvinced. Only large doses of good luck and Pickford kept us from giving up five goals yesterday, not two. This is no job for a raw rookie with no managerial experience.

Andrew Dempsey
6 Posted 20/12/2019 at 06:19:48
As I quoted on here yesterday, a line from a Barney Ronay article that I couldn’t help wholeheartedly agreeing with, it is ‘laughably optimistic’ to think Ancelotti will be successful at Everton,

This is happening though, so I’ve been clutching at straws, trying to salvage some positivity by quoting the title of his autobiography ‘I Prefer the Cups’.
But even if he delivers the FA Cup, which would be great, it’s a ridiculous amount of money to spend on a manager who isn’t really a coach and who, infamously, conducts low intensity training sessions etc etc... He’s run out of super clubs to go to, but he’s managed to find somewhere paying super club salaries.

It will be fun if we go crazy and buy players like Koulibaly, and a world class striker to go with it.
And, it’s going to be another learning experience for Big Dunc, the Ancelotti regime, and he’ll be there to pick up the pieces, hopefully.

Eric Myles
7 Posted 20/12/2019 at 06:23:55
Bob, I was in Toledo, Spain for 5 weeks from the start of July. 40C EVERY day. I loved it. Hotter than here in Thailand but no humidity.

I liked Adelaide when I visited, especially the Cooper's!!

John Pierce
8 Posted 20/12/2019 at 06:51:18
A frigid 19°F in NJ!

Darren, I don’t mind the sentiment behind the article but it’s about as balanced an elephant and a mouse on a see-saw!

You've treated the things he’s won as a byline, an afterthought. Basically the players did it, and what, he’s some overseer of stuff?

Whilst I recognize he’s not a natural fit, and certainly hasn’t worked at this rarefied level for some time he is very good at using what he has, the fact he’s won at all types of clubs is testament to that.

He doesn’t really have playing style either. He was sacked by Chelsea for not having a style. Both factors why it could work at Everton. We have players bought by several managers who played different styles.

Ferguson is simply unsustainable. I grant you he may evolve once he has time to work with the players and gets the squad healthy. But man cannot live on bread alone, and we cannot sustain on one mans passion for his club. Once we crash we will crash hard, such is the emotion Ferguson has imbued into the players.

They are all practically dead on their feet! Look I agree completely it’s was a joy to wake up and think fuck the blue boys are playing today and not immediately’s intoxicating when everyone is unified. We are more than eleven players.

Look we have never gone big before, paid someone a fortune because they have seen and done it.

It’s an opportunity that may never come again. He’s light years ahead of the candidates we’ve previously attracted
and that’s to be applauded. It’s a route we’ve never been down and for me it’s worth doing.

Keeping Duncan on and not neutering him could yield the best of both men.

It’s been great to want to watch them again though, hasn’t it?! 😃

Derek Knox
9 Posted 20/12/2019 at 06:52:40
" Any Dream Will Do " was that from " Darren and His Technicolour Dreamcoat " or from " The Moshiri Horror Show " ?

Seriously a very thought provoking article Darren, but like I have said many a time on here whether it be a player or a Manager, there is always an element of risk involved.

I was never an advocate of Koeman, Allardyce or Silva, and without appearing to be blowing a certain musical instrument, my trepidation has been severely and expensively damaging to the Club, proved to be founded.

Okay, Carlo has had a chequered history of either walking away, or being given the sack on several occasions, but it cannot be denied either that somewhere in between all this he has proved massively successful.

We never get to know what goes on at any Club behind the scenes, and are fed scraps of usually partially correct information, but never the true story.

I, for one think the combination of a successful Manager who HAS worked in the Premiership before, has a Trophy Cabinet that many could not emulate, working alongside Duncan who has Everton in his DNA, can't be a bad thing.

I also believe that once Carlo experiences the Everton factor and realises how starved we have been by poor investments and Managers over the years.

He will ' buy into it ' and give us fans, who are the only ones that have kept their part, and more, of an unwritten Contract with the Club, what we have craved for so long; - sustained success!

Darrel Pugh
10 Posted 20/12/2019 at 06:53:27
Darren you have articulated what many have been thinking. Having worked in the Executive leadership sector for many years I can guarantee you that genuine leaders who inspire ALL parts of an organisation, the staff and the customers, are the rarest of commodities. In short it has hardly ever happened.

If we destabilise the momentum Big Dunc has created in the last couple of weeks it could be catastrophic. Everton are still built on old fashioned values, we do need to transform but the decisions have to be timed extremely well and based on where the club is right now.

Peter Warren
11 Posted 20/12/2019 at 07:33:01
Firstly, as for Ferguson he doesn’t appear to want the job full time. As for his credentials, he clearly loves Everton and has got good results so far with a team decimated by injuries. I have no idea whether he would be a good manager but at the very least have to agree he has motivated both players and fans who since Martinez took over have been treated to snooze fest football.

As for Ancelotti, I’m probably not as informed and whilst I see him coming up smelling of roses like you say I don’t recall any players slagging him off. In respect of his sackings, I suspect every club he has been sacked at you will find seldomly find ever keeps a manager beyond a season or two so I don’t read too much into that.

From the outside seems like he was a great player, even better manager and his record is unbelievable. He seems astute, intelligent and articulate and has been there and worn the t-shirt.

I see his appointment as a real coup. Every man and his dog can see that he has never managed a team with players of quality we have (by that I mean lack of) and that will be the acid test. But to say don’t get him because of that, get Ferguson in who has 3 games experience I don’t get. We have been down the route of managers 4/5 times now of having worked with players who are not of same quality.

I’m optimistic, I think the appointment says we won’t settle for second best, Moshiri hasn’t given up (I think the rest of us have to be honest) he’s determined to get us back to the top and will back Brands / his manager to do this with serious money.

Jerome Shields
12 Posted 20/12/2019 at 07:40:04
Absolutely and totally agree with every word in this article. Ancelotti is Big Sam with a attacking option and will do a lot of damage to Everton.

Duncan Ferguson should a least be given to the end of the Season.

It would be better that Moshiri took the decision to sell his shares in the Club, hopefully followed by Kenwright , if he decides to appoint Ancelotti as Manager.

Paul Turner
13 Posted 20/12/2019 at 08:01:03
"Any dream will do"... your article is sure to cause a "Ripple" or two around here, Darren.

("Deadheads" should geddit, btw...)

I'm ambivalent about Carlo Ancelotti coming in, unless the appointment is made with the express understanding of all involved that Duncan Ferguson is retained as an integral part of the first team squad coaching set-up - with a view to him taking over from Carlo as manager at some future point - hopefully as Carlo retires after overseeing some incoming silverware and (at least) establishing our club as a regular top 4 EPL team.

In the meantime, let's all get behind whoever is managing our squad and look forward to winning ways. It's gonna be a long, strange trip...…...

Mike Kehoe
14 Posted 20/12/2019 at 08:06:33
Nice piece Darren, echoes my own concerns and some. I’m not sure but I don’t think he has ever managed a team that is such a building project as this; and the idea of Zlatan is deeply worrying. I hope he can be a success and unite and galvanise a talented team into something to get excited about, but I feel he something of a busted flush, certainly at the top table. The positive I take is that next time it should be Duncan and I have great faith he will produce a team to be proud of when given the chance.
Seb Niemand
15 Posted 20/12/2019 at 08:36:32
Why would anyone in their right mind believe a single word that Jabba the Hutt says? What a disgraceful thing he is.
Tony Hill
16 Posted 20/12/2019 at 08:37:35
Good, bold piece. The truth is, of course, that we don’t know how Ancelotti will perform, there are numerous contingencies. I think he may do a lot better than Darren says.

Ferguson has been wonderful but he has shown a bit of the Everton disease by failing to push himself for the permanent manager’s position, content it seems to play second fiddle.

We need to take a huge leap if we’re going to break our decades long mediocrity. Ancelotti, if he arrives, would be such a leap, with all of the attendant risk.

Daniel A Johnson
17 Posted 20/12/2019 at 08:39:02
I 100% agree Darren,

We are handing the keys of a busted up ford escort to Ancelotti who's used to gleaming Ferraris. Duncan Ferguson deserves the rest of the season. Going to old Trafford with that depleted squad and getting a result was stunning everything about him has got the whole club buzzing.

He's the right man at the right time to fire us up and rebuild. Ancelotti will prove to be an expensive mistake, would love to be proved wrong though.

Bill Gienapp
18 Posted 20/12/2019 at 08:49:18
Please never put Ancelotti's name in the same sentence as Fat Sam ever again.
Martin Nicholls
19 Posted 20/12/2019 at 08:55:39
Rewind two weeks, yes just two weeks. Would Darren have penned this article, and all you doubters agreed with him, if in the aftermath of that catastrophe at Klanfield, you were given a plain choice of Duncan Ferguson or Carlo Ancellotti as next permanent Everton manager? I suspect not.
I'm with Peter Warren on this.
Fran Mitchell
20 Posted 20/12/2019 at 08:59:28
Interesting piece Darren. You point out many things that pose risks, however I don't think you can be so certain. Nothing in football is certain.

I love seeing Big Dunc on the touchline, and it is nice to see his reputation as a kind of token blue member of staff finally, a rightfully, debunked.

But in my opinion this is too big a job for him. And whilst there is reason for caution with Ancelotti, there is much reason for optimism.

His teams have always played great football, and this is something us as evertonians want. We will only accept long ball and passion for so long.

He will be able to attract players of greater quality, and I'm sure his arrival has come with the stipulation of money to spend.

He knows the game inside out, and there is something about having a serial winner that is intriguing. We crave silverware, and silverware is in this man's DNA.

His wages may be big, but his 4 year contract costs less than we spent on Iwobi and Kean, so it is a gamble worth taking (we paid how much to Allardyce for his 6 months of pain).

And fundamentally, it could signal a culture change at the club. We are perrenial losers, battlers, always looking at excuses. Ancelotti will not abide this mentality.

If we hired Ferguson. Or anyone else linked with the job, finishing 10-7th would be seen as good job. Ancelotti will push that ambition higher.

Ed Fitzgerald
21 Posted 20/12/2019 at 09:28:14
We don’t know whether Carlo will be ultimately successful in my opinion that criteria would entail us winning trophies (note the plural there) We don’t know whether any manager could guarantee that, what we do know for all people may malign Moshiri you can’t question the mans ambition. Like many posters I suspect Usmanov is in the background and perhaps about to come into the foreground. I am hopeful that success is going to happen at last.
Trevor Peers
22 Posted 20/12/2019 at 09:35:38
Any managerial appointment comes with a risk of failure, but I think we need someone of Ancelotti's stature at this stage, to propel us into an exciting future after hiring so many appalling managers in the last decade.

The big bonus is that we have unearthed a manager with enormous potential for the future from our own ranks in Duncan Ferguson, hopefully he can learn a a lot and take over with confidence, when the time comes, in a much more secure environment for the club.

Stan Schofield
23 Posted 20/12/2019 at 09:40:43
It's an interesting article Darren, and quite convincing. But having said that, when I read stuff that's more positive about Ancellotti, that's also interesting and convincing. So, based on articles like this one, I don't really know what to think.

What I do know is, Liverpool supporters appear to be fretting about the prospect of Ancellotti coming here. And many neutral commentators are comparing it to Klopp joining Liverpool. It's certain to raise the profile of Everton, or the 'brand' in modern parlance. I thought that was one of the things we wanted, if only for the purpose of attracting better players.

So overall, I think it's a risk worth taking.

Brian Harrison
24 Posted 20/12/2019 at 10:05:26

It wasnt that long ago that you were banging the drum for David Unsworth to get the job full time, now you try and do a hatchet job on one of the worlds top managers. Duncan Ferguson has done a terrific job but he himself said he is not ready yet to be the full time manager at Everton. So we have to respect what Duncan says and look for a permanent manager.

Your piece isn't new or original as I have read a lot of pundits say he is not the right fit for Everton, so who is the right fit. I have watched this club for decades miss out on the very best managers, Clough, Revie, Robson to name but 3. So for the first time in our history we appoint one of the worlds best and you and others want to pour cold water on the appointment before the guy has even arrived. I am sure he has sought assurances as to what his transfer budjet will be, and you say he is only good at working with top players. So although this group is many steps down from the quality he is used to working with, I am sure that he will attract better players than any of our last lot of managers.

So lets see what he does over the next 2/3 years before we start sticking the knives in, he may well surprise you. I see many who have already posted and agree with you live thousands of miles away so there negativity wont be anywhere near Goodison when Carlo arrives thank goodness for that.

Daniel A Johnson
25 Posted 20/12/2019 at 10:22:31
Brian [24] I don't think raising valid concerns = sticking the knife in
Jim Bennings
26 Posted 20/12/2019 at 10:29:59

Dunc will take over in three years I’m sure of that!

He’s clearly managerial material and many, myself included, doubted the mans input at the club but now we have seen it clearly what he offers.

As for Carlo Ancelotti?

Who knows how it will go here, only time will tell.

He’s clearly worked with big players on the biggest stage on a yearly basis but there’s no doubts whatsoever that this will be a very eye opening experience for him.

I hope Carlo is fully prepared for a whole new ball game when he starts managing Everton Football Club, because it will be nothing like he’s been used to before.

Paul Tran
27 Posted 20/12/2019 at 10:31:16
Great to have you back on here, Darren.

We've spent the last few years spending daft amounts of money on players, while spending a fraction of that on managers that have performed poorly and/or been hindered by a club set in its mediocre ways.

My guess is that Moshiri is thinking why not lash out on a respected and revered manager who attracts better players and use it to give the club a collective kick up the arse?

Two reservations about Ancelotti for me. First, is he past his best? Second, will things be held back by those in and around the club who like things as they are, who are fearful of the demands of ambition and success, who will start calling Ancelotti 'arrogant' and 'not one of us' the first chance they get.

This club needs a wrecking ball to shake it into this century. The first one didnt work. I'm hoping Moshiri has more clout and willingness to try a second one and make it work. I'm hoping than unlike Koeman, this wrecking ball will hit the right target.

It's gonna be interesting.

Bob Parrington
28 Posted 20/12/2019 at 10:47:56
You have a really good taste in beer Eric!@7

Stan@23 you and I are likely close to the same age. I think we are also on the same page on this subject.

Filipe Torres
29 Posted 20/12/2019 at 10:54:39
There's a fundamental flaw in this article: every football manager is sacked by his club, and it's very rare a manager leave, with the club still interested in keeping him.
In the whole football world you can count with your fingers managers who would want out, as that would be a complete miss for the manager in itself.
Of course there are the successful ones, who move to the next level by signing for bigger clubs, but how many are currently out there? I have a theory that managers, and players btw, are as good to a club as much as others would want them, and when they stop wanting them...
I think daniel levy's recent comments on mourinho's tenure and about continental clubs and the longevity of their managers really says it all.
I'm not in ancelotti's camp, but arguing about the logical thoughts put out in the article. IMHO It's what managers do at "their club" that define's them, and the article may have a point there, but I would do him justice, and argue though, that while ancelotti had the mentioned players, juventus had del piero, Ibrahimovic, deschamps, zidane and many others, Inter had ronaldo, vieri and many other world class players, so he still had a tough nut to crack in italy.
So my doubts about carlo(as with any other manager) are simple and straight forward: has he turn some average players into world beaters? has he found under the radar gems? has he revealled any youngsters? has he excelled the quality of his teams? or the money spent on transfers to bring success to his club? I believe it isn't all about success; Sir Bobby never won the league with Ipswich, and people still talk about that team.
It seems to me that any high profile manager would have a bit of stick, by some fraction of evertonians, either it's because they aren't used to it, or, as it seems more likely to me, ever since moshiri came with his money, many assumed that a new era was at dawn, granted on the financial muscle, but based on astute recruiting of players and managers, In fact I believe many of you here would of liked a building strategy, scratched from the ground, without fancy players and managers, but with working class heroes, local boys, and all english (or british) talents, without association to regional rivals (no red rejects or former mancs), players who revealed themselves, on the holly ground of goodison, as the modern trinity, with the guy who was a self made men, in the managers seat, a moses; revealling himself to the world of football as the new special one.
So when a few young non-fashionable, but still reputed, footballers arrived, along with the high promissing young managers, it was all evertonians wanted wasn't it? of course it wouldn't be rotterdam's all british eleven, but it was as good as it would in the modern era footie.
How has that pan out?
I can understand the charm of it all, and wonder if this is a scouse thing? or just the Everton way? well I ain't scouse, or am I? sometimes I think I must have played for Everton in another life, and I (scouse or not) would jump right to the glamour of it all, even the all brit non-sense, but now, with the prospect of BMD, I would demand us to do a "chelski" or "ettihad" and couldn't care a f.. if it's moshiri, usmanov or billy bob, so I still find myself pretty much dreaming but don't wanna wake up.
Alexander Murphy
30 Posted 20/12/2019 at 11:08:01
As everyone has already said Darren, it is an interesting piece. Personally, I completely accept that you have deliberately not itemised CA's trophy list. That's fine because what you were seeking to do was to articulate "The Case Against", and do so strongly. (Regardless of whether I previously ageed or am now persuaded or not)

What your article does add weight to is My hope that Ancellotti + Ferguson really could add up to something inspiring for us Blues.

Ancellotti has won stacks of silver during his career. Putting it into a selected context:

Carlo Ancellotti has won more silverware as a manager than Everton FC have in their entire history.

Rick Tarleton
31 Posted 20/12/2019 at 11:34:28
What a superb article! Another problem with Ancelotti is that he is in the "cool", unemotional group of coaches, like Koeman, and Silva. I'm not sure Ferguson is the answer long term, his Charles Hughes style doesn't seem to me to be a template for Premier League success, but he is involved. He enthuses the players and the crowd. Part of Klopp's success across the Park is that he has convinced the crowd he is one of them.
Managers don't have to be fans, or extroverts, but it helps. Harry Catterick, possibly our most successful manager was almost contemptuous of enthusiasm, but it's so good to see Ferguson hugging ballboys when we score.
I'm not sure I want another elegant, continental with little connection to the fans running our team.
Laurie Hartley
32 Posted 20/12/2019 at 11:35:48
Ferguson has definitely thrown a spanner in the works however as stated above, he himself has said we need a world class manager.

Moyes, Martinez, Koeman, Unsworth, Allardyce, Silva - Ancelloti. If he comes that represents a huge change in my opinion and I am 100% behind this appointment.

John Zapa
33 Posted 20/12/2019 at 11:45:42
I agree with the article fully. My main concerns are:
1: he never over achieved anywhere. At all clubs he was at, he was fully expected to win the league + cups. Anything less at clubs like Bayern, Real, PSG is considered total failure. The time when he was at Napoli, it didn't go well and he couldn't show anything to indicate that he could challenge seriously.

2: The club has gone in recently in the direction of buying younger players with potential improvement and resale value. Managers such as Silva were expected to develop and grow such talent. He will not have the time or interest, he will want players for the here and now. I would expect to see a host of 28+ year olds sign on huge wages and be near impossible to shift such as some Koeman/ Sam signings.

3: He will inevitably leave the club inside of 3 years, in a terrible shape, overage players the next manager will not want, Brands will probably be a casualty of his appointment, Moshiri would have burnt his hands again after sanctioning the expected transfer splurge that will be flushed down the toilet again. I fear this would make him lose interest in the club permanently.

James Marshall
34 Posted 20/12/2019 at 11:52:02
The same can be said about the vast majority of ALL managers, especially those at the top. They all move around, chop & change clubs and rarely stay more than a few years at any clubs.
John Pickles
35 Posted 20/12/2019 at 11:59:36
Breaking News: God/Allah/Buddha* due to appointed next Everton manager!

ToffeeWeb: This is bad news, all his best work is behind him, he's too old, not an 'Everton' appointment, has no connection with the club, has no Premier League experience, won't play/improve the young players, not passionate enough

*Delete where applicable.

Andrew Ellams
36 Posted 20/12/2019 at 12:13:43
The Premier League is seeing a bit of a shift this season with Man U, Arsenal and Spurs slipping down the league with Leicester and Wolves usurping them. Ancelotti's job for the rest of this season is get the team up and in amongst the chasing pack and build a platform for next season. We are only a very good month away from looking at top 6.
Sam Hoare
37 Posted 20/12/2019 at 12:18:16
Good article Darren. I share a lot of your concerns though I’m not sure prospects are quite as bleak as you make out.

Ancelotti is a fantastic, flexible tactician. He’s won it all and is a good motivator by most accounts. I should think most of our players will be excited to work with such a prestigious winner.

My concerns are more with the coaching and recruitment. Will he and his team have the hunger, attention to detail and philosophy to improve our players over a long period. I gather a lot of the Bayern players turned on him as they thought his sessions lacked intensity. The only way we begin to really challenge I believe is if our decent young players (Richarlison, Davies, Holgate, Mina, Calvert-Lewin, Iwobi, Kean etc) improve to a higher, consistent level over the next few years.

As for recruitment who will lead it?

As John@33 says this all becomes purgatory if we buy a bunch of ‘experienced’ expensive 27-31 year olds on big contracts who we can’t get rid of if Ancellotti doesn’t work out (see Bolasie, Schneiderlin, etc).

I’m also not convinced Duncan is a long term option, and nor is he. Though if we beat Arsenal his stint will look very impressive. He’s certainly not short on passion but I’m not sure that alone sustains a team (though it will be missed when gone); whether he has the tactical nous required I’m not sure. If you could take the best of Ancelloti and Ferguson combined you’d have something pretty good I reckon.

Time will tell. I find myself jealous of Arsenal though Arteta is a huge risk. Ancellotti is one the biggest winners there is so his time will at least settle the question over whether that history is what we’ve been missing as many have felt. Let’s see.

James Marshall
38 Posted 20/12/2019 at 12:18:56

Exactly that. ToffeeWeb is brilliant, and I love the people who come on here, but a large proportion of supporters are looking for a manager that simply doesn't exist.

They want some form of perceived perfection. Ancelotti is one of the best managers in world football. End of story. If you're not happy with him, you might as well pack it in.

Conor McCourt
39 Posted 20/12/2019 at 12:19:31
Darren it's good to see an article like this which at least provokes thought into the direction the club is going. I may have a different regard to you on the achievements of Ancelotti but I do agree with you that there has to be a doubt whether he is fit for purpose.

John Zapa- What I find incredible is the immeasurable hypocrisy of some Twebbers. I really liked the signings and policy the club adopted last year under Brands which outlined a template for future success similar to what Leicester are achieving. This year I was highly critical of the work done in the summer as I seen the train crash coming yet I was continually being challenged by the 'in Brands we trust' brigade who have behaved like he is the messiah and is the best thing to happen to our great club.

Now we have had a predictably self destructive campaign Moshiri it seems has given up on his blueprint yet again and gone back to a much more decorated Koeman scenario. Why aren't the Brands lovers up in arms? Ancelotti is not a head coach, he is a manager who has always dictated transfer policy and has always favoured the tried and tested over the up and coming. His appointment will ultimately make Brands role defunct. Are they furious? No Brands has been forgotten eclipsed by Carlos medals.

Moshiri has behaved like a 3am curb crawler trying to desperately find glory switching from brunette to blonde, from young to old rather than putting the hard yards in for the entire evening if he wanted his princess and a clear idea of what she must be.

It seems our fan base love Carlos medal hall so much that that they don't envisage the realities that will be coming their way as Darren has outlined with regards to the passion and excitement big Dunc has engineered. Carlos teams are not renowned for their intensity.

Those of you counting Ancelottis medals will soon forget them as he walks through the door as Utd fans did with Van Gaal and Mourinho. Will he make Iwobi stop putting the ball 20 yards over from 8 yards out or help Keane to turn on a sixpence.

He is a great of the game but the presumption that he will be filling up his trophy cabinet here is fanciful considering he has just taken a much better squad who came within whiskers of the title to also rans. I hope he succeeds but it is a big leap of faith to expect what many are claiming.

Nigel Gregson
40 Posted 20/12/2019 at 12:24:22
A lot of what you say is correct. But on the flipside, a big name manager like Carlo might attract a few big name signings that we don't attract currently (and never will with Big Dunc in charge - as much as I like what I see so far). Furthermore, Mosh might be more willing to open his purse strings if Carlo insists on a type of player. In fact, maybe guys like Gana might have stayed with manager like Carlo in charge.
Dave Abrahams
41 Posted 20/12/2019 at 12:49:55
Food for thought Darren with your post, no guarantees with any manager, when they move to another club, no matter how good their past reputation.

Duncan has been a breath of fresh air, but I doubt he is the long term answer to the managers job,Ancelotti gives me more hope, stressing hope, than the previous managers who have followed Moyes, he has the ability to point us upwards in the next three seasons with Usmanov joining his messenger and providing much more financial strength to achieving more than just stability but trophies, but again there are no guarantees in football as in other walks of life.

Gavin McGarvey
42 Posted 20/12/2019 at 12:52:44
I don't think there should be too much debate on whether he is a good manager or not. I find it difficult to believe he isn't considering his CV. That being said, my main concern would be whether the fans will put up with his football. The same could be said about Houllier. Both are tactically astute, but fairly conservative coaches. I imagine that will have some fans tearing their hair out, and looking for a more attack minded approach.

That being said, I think if I was going to spend a lot of money on players, then I would want someone who was a proven top manager to take charge of them for a multitude of reasons. If you had spent a lot of money buying a business, wouldn't you want someone experienced in charge of it?

As for Duncan Ferguson, I think he'll make a great coach one day. He has passion and great technical ability. The only thing he needs to develop is man management, and hopefully that will come in time. I guess he needs to keep learning more at Everton, and then when the right club comes along for him, then he can take the step up to the next level at a club in the lower leagues. There is the possibility of him taking over at Everton one day, I suppose, but I would have thought that would be difficult to do with the increasing professionalism of clubs these days, without proving himself somewhere else first.

James Marshall
43 Posted 20/12/2019 at 12:58:21
To be fair Gavin, most Evertonians will only ever be happy if we're kicking lumps out of the opposition, and 'playing for the shirt'.

We could lose most weeks as long as they run about a lot.

Nicholas Ryan
44 Posted 20/12/2019 at 13:02:04
Darren, excellent piece; it's always difficult to go 'against the flow'. I was 'made up' with the announcement of Ancelotti … but you really are making me have second thoughts!
John P McFarlane
45 Posted 20/12/2019 at 13:12:10
It's a difficult one this, had an Ancelotti arrived to replace Roberto Martinez, we may have all jumped on his band-wagon, and believed that here was a guy who could return us to the promised land.

However, given the last five years and the catostrophic errors of the leadership at the club, it's little wonder that we are so sceptical or even downright frightened of what may happen in the next few months, years.

Unfortunately the current squad is as average as it was five years ago, with a couple of exceptions. Good players make good teams, and without them, most managers are on a hiding to nothing.

Silva in retrospect, was probably undermined during the last summer window, unable to get the key players in the key positions which he may have wanted. Then he either spat his dummy out and lost his enthusiasm or he wasn't capable of establishing the necessary team spirit that a below standard squad requires to achieve results.

Wayne Rooney has loads of medals as has Phil Neville but both players were unlikely to add to their collection during their spells at Goodison, of course players are different to managers, but it proves that their CVs counted for little when they pulled on a Blue shirt.

We can only hope that it is not a vanity appointment by and for Mr Moshiri. as most of the media are portraying it, although Phil McNulty and a couple of others have pushed back at that narrative in the last couple of days.

I'll do what most of us will probably do, be hopeful that the club have found someone to set it on the road to recovery and later success, but with the usual apprehensiveness that the Everton experience has made necessary.

What I would hope to see from Carlo, is a change of mindset at the club, the realisation that a couple of good performances and results do not a good team make, that consistency of performance game after game, month after month is the only way to achieve anything of merit.

Another interesting adventure awaits us but whether Darren is proved right or wrong will only be seen after a significant period of time. I hope Darren has judged it completely wrong and I'm certain deep down, he hopes so too, but if Darren is correct at least Duncan will still be there to pick up the pieces.

Brent Stephens
46 Posted 20/12/2019 at 13:17:04
An interesting piece. Sets out a detailed argument against Ancelotti, with some nod in passing to his successes.

"Him failing at Goodison is not simply a possibility; I believe it to be a certainty... a forgone conclusion".

So in fairness, so that we can judge that prediction at some future date, what exactly would count as "failing", and when? What would count as not failing, and when? If there's no benchmark for failure / success, it's a pretty empty prediction. Without anything specific about that, it would be all too easy to turn round and say "I told you so".

Raymond Fox
47 Posted 20/12/2019 at 13:18:41
Controversial as ever Darren, what you say is correct though in my opinion.

If we sign some world class players his appointment might pay off, but if we don't anything can happen!
I've banged on for years that our main problem is more to do with the quality of our players than it has to do with our managers.
Yes there are good and not so good managers, but if they haven't enough quality to pick from they are going to struggle whoever they may be.
The reason we are stuck as plucky losers, is simply we cant keep hold on to our best players and also cant attract elite ones.

I too think Dunc. can do a perfectly good job as our manager if he wanted it, but as I said before maybe Carlo can attract and keep elite players, which I believe is the only way we are going to become a regular top 6 side. With that in mind its worth try.

Brian Harrison
48 Posted 20/12/2019 at 13:18:49
I have just seen this tweet from Alan Myers our former Director of Communications and a massive fan.
" Evertons board, players, staff and fans should embrace the appointment of a winner, grab it with both hands, use it to create a togetherness, and a single vision and the moment to move away from the mediocrity of recent years. Ancelotti can be the catalyst for change, finally"
James Marshall
49 Posted 20/12/2019 at 13:21:45
Alan Myers is right - people have been calling for Everton to think big, and here they are thinking big yet people are still negative about it.

Brent Stephens
50 Posted 20/12/2019 at 13:22:47
Dave #41 "Ancelotti gives me more hope, stressing hope, than the previous managers who have followed Moyes".

A cautious view as ever, Dave. With any appointment we can only hope, and not be certain.

You should go to the Pure Stadium tonight, Dave. That drink is still on offer!

Eddie Dunn
51 Posted 20/12/2019 at 13:23:33
Darren, I really hope that you've got this all wrong.
As regards to the short tenure of some of Carlo's previous clubs- it has been very common in Spain and Italy to dispense of the coach after a couple of years especially considering the ego maniacs owning the top clubs.
Indeed Engand is rapidly following suit. There are no guarantees in football as we have seen with supposedly good coaches regularly given the boot after winning promotions or in Ranieri's case the PL.
I think we should have some hope for the furure because Ancellotti has won things, and hopefully his success will rub off on our lads.
As fro Duncan, I love him, and perhaps this was a good audition for the future.
James Marshall
52 Posted 20/12/2019 at 13:23:59
Also, it seem a large part of the footballing contingent around the world, supporters that is, cannot believe Ancelotti is even considering plucky little Everton. That alone should be enough to make you want to fuck them over.
Winston Williamson
53 Posted 20/12/2019 at 13:29:22
Could you have seen Van Dyke and Allison moving to LFC without Klopp there? Those two players turned them in to title contenders. Their defence was crap up until that point.

Can Ancelotti turn Keane into a better player? I doubt anyone can. What Ancelotti can do is help persuade a better defender (one who can defend properly) to come to us. Keane then becomes irrelevant.

Will DCL, Davies, Holgate etc fit in with Ancelotti? If they play to his standards (and to be fair they've stepped up enormously in the last three games) they will. If not, they will be replaced.

I cannot see Brands changing his approach to signing younger players who can develop. I see this continuing. What I also see is those players being complemented by some signings of more established players with a higher level of performance - i.e. the opposite to Schneiderlin, Walcott, Siggy, Tosun etc...

Ferguson has stated he doesn't feel ready yet. I think he's being modest. I'd be very happy for him to continue to be honest. I love the guy and his love for Everton.

What I would prefer is to see Ferguson take over the team when it is in a better space than we currently are in. The guy deserves a chance in the future and what better way than to groom him with one of footballs finest managers.

Steve Ferns
54 Posted 20/12/2019 at 13:31:49
Darren, excellent to see you're back. You were missed, particularly as you always produce excellent thought provoking articles like this.

Bob #1, I have different reservations to Darren, but reservations nonetheless. You mistake my looking for the positives in our next manager as total support. And let's make no mistake about this, Ancelotti is our next manager, no one is going to answer Darren's pray and stop this madness.

Darren, I do think you have misrepresented a lot of things here, touched on by Mike Gaynes. Ancelotti was a success at Parma. Ancelotti brought through exciting young players like Gigi Buffon, Fabio Canavaro, Enrico Chiesa and Hernan Crespo, whilst easing out an aging Stoichkov and he could not accommodate Zola in his rigid system. Why was Ancelotti a success at Parma, because he took them to their highest ever League position of SECOND. Remember Ancelotti can only do it in the cups? Well here he was taking Parma to the top 2 in the top flight for the ONLY time in their history. They have never bettered 4th since.

Ancelotti did so well at Parma that he got the Juventus job. You know the most successful club Italy has ever seen. Juve had been reigning champions but sacked Lippi as they were having a terrible season. They had Zidane and learning from the Baggio / Zola mistake, Ancelotti ditched his rigid 442. Remember Ancelotti was a world class player, who was prominent under one of the pioneers of football, Ariggo Sacchi. Sacchi left a big mark on Ancelotti and so he copied his tactics, and did so with success at Parma but he learnt to evolve and adapt them at Juve to incorporate Zidane, who Lippi had struggled to build a team around. His first proper season he was second again, by a single point. Then he was sacked for finishing second a third time (for him and a second with Juventus) as not winning the league for two seasons is a sackable offence for Juve.

Next he went to AC Milan. The side where he enjoyed so much success under Sacchi. Milan were in decline and had won nothing for a few years. Ancelotti turned them around and won the League, the Cup, TWO CHAMPIONS LEAGUES, 2 European Super Cups, and the World Club Cup. This was not a team that he inherited that was doing well, this was a Milan in a mess and he came in, sorted it out, knocked Lippi's Juventus (as Lippi got the job back off Ancelotti) off their perch and then conquered Europe, getting to 3 Champions League Finals in 4 seasons.

We all know about Chelsea, for sure. But I think some of you forget the mess that they were in. Mourinho was sacked, then Avram Grant came in, then the disaster that was Phil Scolari and then old Guus Hiddink had steadied the ship and left them in a good position having won the FA Cup. Chelsea didn't want Hiddink, they wanted the best and they hung on for Ancelotti. Ancelotti won the double with Chelsea don't forget.

At PSG he won the league in his only full season and got PSG to the QF of the CL. They have still never been further. He left to take over at Real Madrid.

Real Madrid had just sacked Mourinho. Real were desperate for the "Decima". Their 10th Champions League. The Decima was a big thing as Madrid had gone 12 seasons without winning the Champions League and it was seen a hurdle no one could get across. So after getting Mourinho in, as the man most likely to win them the Champions League, and him failing, they turned to the next man most likely to deliver the Decima. In came Ancelotti and he delivered the Champions League in his first season. He won 4 trophies in 2014 (UCL, CWC, ESC, Spanish Cup). Real Madrid lauded Ancelotti for winning them the Decima and after winning this then focussed on their failure to win the League, and after he didn't, he was sacked.

At Bayern he did the double in his first season. He was then sacked after a players revolt in his second season with the players, he was gone. The revolt was led by Arjen Robben. The complaints centred around the fitness coaching. Note that since then Giovanni Mauri, Carlo Ancelotti's long term fitness coach retired and his son Francesco Mauri has taken over as main fitness coach for Ancelotti. Now if you think Giovanni is crap, read this Link and google him, he has a long list of plaudits.

I've addressed the Napoli issues elsewhere. In a nutshell, the Napoli President is a complete nutcase and he took on the players and Ancelotti was caught in the middle and paid the price for not choosing his boss's side.

I believe that Everton need a Pochettino type to take us back to the top. I believed, and still do, that Silva can be such a man. Silva is not the man for Everton, but that does not mean we cannot go and find someone who can do everything Silva was meant to do, and has none of his flaws. I thought that man might be Leo Jardim of Monaco (back in the firing line at Monaco and unlikely to resist an approach from Everton to take him). If not Jardim, then Gallardo could also fit the bill. Sam Hoare had a list of German candidates in the similar mould. The best of whom is leading the Bundesliga and probably out of grasp, Julien Nagelsmann, who I wanted ahead of Silva and we could have got him 18 months ago.

This type of manager is a young coach, someone hands on. A man who breaks everything down and runs through every conceivable scenario and tries to educate the players on how to think. Players like Iwobi appear to be braindead, and so a manager is to program into thinking the way he wants them to. Experienced players do not appreciate this type of coach, unless they are of a lower level and willing to learn as they step up to the next level. So, the likes of Schneiderlin and Sigurdsson, are likely to unwilling to "buy in".

Ancelotti is the complete opposite. He is hands-off. He does not want to teach the players how to think. He thinks the players already know how to think as they are elite professionals (or so the players he usually coaches are) and he allows them to come up with solutions for themselves. This is an approach favoured by Arsene Wenger. Even Sam Allardyce, was halfway there. He drilled the defensive side of the game, and said figure it out for yourselves in attack.

Everton had been decent under Silva when playing in pre-programmed ways. Breaking at speed, closing down, cutting off passing lanes and preventing chances. When Everton have struggled it's when they have the ball and they have to think for themselves. When the coach cannot programme them to do something.

for example, the team can run lots of drills about breaking up the pitch and sending the ball left and right, running to certain places and so when we break at speed, you should have certain players pop up in certain positions and they should be ready to do what they did in training. Conversely, it is difficult to give a player a solution of what to do when the opponent has 10 men behind the ball. They can work extensively on this, by running drills where you have 4 or 5 players trying to break through 10 or more defenders. But usually it's about close control, and working on making sure the ball never stops moving, and making it move at speed. And yet, our players slow it to walking pace and then put their foot on the ball. In other words, when they have had to think, they fail to have a solution.

So this gives me concerns about how Ancelotti can take Everton to where we want to be. Those concerns would be alleviated with the acquisition of competent coaches who can be hands-on, that can educate the players to think. Or, if as is more likely, we just go out and spend a fortune signing players who have the quality already to do this. And so, this is why Ancelotti prefers older players.

I disagree that Ancelotti is destined to be a failure. I think he can be, and probably will be a success. The question though is, what is success for the three time Champions League Winner, reportedly one of the highest paid managers in world football? I don't think success will be 8th, not next season anyway, and it probably won't be anything less than 4th.

What I expect from Ancelotti is immediate impact. He is great at that. He can see what a team is doing, and can make subtle adjustments and make them better. there is, probably, no one better in world football at that, which is why he has so much success. His in game management is second to none. Which is why he is excellent in the cups. In a one-off game he will outthink his opponent. sustaining success over a league campaign requires a bit more on the training pitch and that's why we need a world class coach to go with our world class manager.

I cannot see Ancelotti coming in and spending less than £50m in January. I cannot see him spending less than £200m in the summer. We will spend money. Between him and Brands, we should expect quality players, and so I cannot see how Ancelotti, to go back to Darren's words, is a forgone conclusion to fail. I do think he's right man, wrong time. And I agree with many people who say he's the man you get after Pochettino, and we need a Pochettino. We're not getting Pochettino, or Jardim, or Nagelsmann, or Rose, or Gallardo, or any other man who might be better suited.

Ancelotti will be the manager. It can work. And we need to get behind him and demand that the club give him everything he needs to make it work.

James Hughes
55 Posted 20/12/2019 at 13:35:07
Darren, well penned article mate. The last four appointments have left me with an hollow feeling when they were announced, This one gives me a glimmer of hope for the future.
DF has really impressed me in the short time he has been given and he has united us all again. However, he has stated he does think he is ready, maybe he will be after two years with a top manager to work with.

I still hate to see Sam's name mentioned on these pages, He should be the relative you never mention in polite conversation. His claim he was given permission to get rid of DF is laughable.

Ken Kneale
56 Posted 20/12/2019 at 13:47:36
Alan Myers and Steve Fearns are absolutely correct. We have had so little to cheer in recent times and 30 years of settling for second or even third best, our mindset is different - I plead guilty to cynicism myself at times borne out of sheer frustration and disappointment. This appointment can be the moment when Everton FC reenter the big time - look at Bobby Collins capture in 1958 as a similar moment when we announced the Ni Satis Nisi Optimum is back. Lets really back the team and the club to move forward starting with an FA Cup third round win to embed the moment.
Ste Traverse
57 Posted 20/12/2019 at 13:48:34
What a highly embarrassing, pathetic, piss-poor 'article' absolutely dripping in negativity.

One of the worst to have the misfortune to have been published on here.

Gerard McKean
58 Posted 20/12/2019 at 14:02:05
Darren, your thought provoking article has had the effect you intended and brought out the best in TW: lively debate amongst Evertonians without resort to insults.

There is a lot of truth in all you say, but it’s what you don’t say that puts me more in the Mike Gaynes camp: Carlo’s CV is mightily impressive and I just don’t see failure as inevitable. My biggest reservation is whether he still has the hunger to add to that CV.

Steve Ferns has articulated the case for a precisely a hungry, younger coach and mentioned several interesting names. I’ll admit that I have been pleasantly surprised by Duncan and were it not for his own reluctance I’d be banging the drum for him. I mentioned previously on TW that my own preference is Tim Cahill, of whom Humphrey Bogart almost said, “Badges? Badges? I don’t need no stinkin’ badges!” In other words, Tim will get his qualifications soon enough but it would be great to have him around the club now.

There is an interesting article by Barney Ronay in today’s Guardian, the gist of which is that Everton and Arsenal may have got the right two managers but in the wrong order. This complements the Ferns view that a more dynamic guy with everything to prove is the better fit.

In the end though Darren’s article demonstrates that appointing any manager is an inexact science and we can all conjecture as much as we want but none of us knows how it will work out. For the sake of all TW’ers and especially younger Blues let’s all hope that Carlo turns out to be an inspired appointment.

Steve Ferns
59 Posted 20/12/2019 at 14:23:16
Gerard, the other concern, one that we need Paul the Esk to address, is the price of failure. If Ancelotti comes in and does well, like Koeman, then fails, like Koeman and we sack him. What's the cost? The salary and maybe £300m in transfer fees, probably on a load of players like Sigurdsson and Schneiderlin who are old and have no re-sale value and wages so high we cannot move them on. In event of the failure of Ancelotti, where does that leave Moshiri / Usmanov? I cannot see them turning to another big name and funding another project. The result of failure for Ancelotti, could well be the pulling of the plug on the whole Moshiri project.

I think in our (Paul Tran and I) discussion with the Esk last night on twitter, the Esk likened Moshiri's approach to a gambler doubling down on his loss. And like a gambler doubling down on a big loss, failure can be utter disaster. I would say though, I would expect that if Koeman type scenario repeats, Moshiri will not be quick to sack, instead he will give Koeman / Ancelotti every chance to turn it around.

Ancelotti will be the next manager, and we cannot allow it to fail, no matter how bad it gets we cannot call for his head, we cannot make Goodison a toxic place to play football, because we cannot afford the bill to sack him.

Jay Wood

60 Posted 20/12/2019 at 14:31:44
Personally, I'm still waiting for Carlo Ancelotti's appointment to be confirmed before sharing my opinion on him and have avoided commenting on all the speculative posts across the many related rumour threads in the past week.

I will just make the following general observation.

Some pine for a return to the past, or a continuation of the 'known'. Some reference that only ex-Everton players have ever won trophies as Everton managers, the last being Joe Royle 24 - nearly 25 - years ago.

I myself have strongly acknowledged and praised Duncan Ferguson after just one game, never mind the three he has overseen. As the current incumbent his claim of ex-player to be the Everton manager is the strongest of all.

Since Joe Royle, here is a list of just some ex-Everton players who moved into management, or at bare minimum, into coaching

Peter Reid
Paul Bracewell
Adrian Heath
Neville Southall
Kevin Sheedy
David Unsworth
Alan Stubbs
David Weir
Dave Watson
Gary Rowett
Peter Beardsley
Slaven Bilic
Mark Hughes
Gary Naismith
James Beattie
Daniel Amokachi
Tomasz Radzinski
Li Tie
Mark Pembridge
Phil Neville

And I'm sure there's more.

Pretty much every single one of those would, I believe, be a HUGELY underwhelming appointment.

If we are to ever again put silverware in our trophy cabinet, there are exceedingly slim pickings out there to believe it will only happen under the stewardship of an ex-Everton player.

Absolutely no appointment, be it the manager or a player, comes with gilt edged guarantee of success. But some come with a greater likelihood of being successful based on their history and consistency over many seasons.

I eagerly await the board's announcement as to who indeed will be our next permanent manager. It needs to be a very good one.

Jay Wood

61 Posted 20/12/2019 at 14:36:33
Arteta to Arsenal confirmed, so the rumoured hijacking of our rumoured target of Carlo Ancelotti ain't happening.


Steve Ferns
62 Posted 20/12/2019 at 14:39:02
Thanks for the confirmation Jay. It's amazing to see that he hasn't aged a day. Let's see if we can still say that after 12 months in the pressure job!
Jay Wood

63 Posted 20/12/2019 at 14:39:58
Arteta will only officially take charge on Sunday, so Lundberg manages them against us tomorrow.

I wonder if both teams' future managers will be passive participants in the crowd for Saturday's lunch time KO?

Another historical Everton first if so!

Steve Ferns
64 Posted 20/12/2019 at 14:42:29
Jay, have you seen his assistant manager? STEVE ROUND!! some on here would be going nuts if Arteta had brought him back here, and saying where they'd like him to shove his headset and clipboard! Clearly Arteta rates him.
James Marshall
65 Posted 20/12/2019 at 14:42:37
Moyes - no
Martinez - no
Koeman - no
Allardyce - no
Silva - no
Ancelotti - ??

God help us if people don't want Carlo Ancelotti as manager of Everton! You may have noticed, we're fucking shite.

Jay Wood

66 Posted 20/12/2019 at 14:44:20
Cummon Steve! Tell me you've made that up!

Steve Round????


Paul Tran
67 Posted 20/12/2019 at 14:45:21
He's right, Jay. Apparently got a Bluetooth headset now.
Jay Wood

68 Posted 20/12/2019 at 14:47:30
Where's the dropped jaw, open-mouth emoji when I need it, Paul?


Another burst of manic laughter!

Paul Tran
69 Posted 20/12/2019 at 14:52:39
Steve #59, just to add to your reference to our Twitter chat, Paul The Esk was talking about a specific economic gambling theory. I made that point that the gambler's problem is that you walk away and take the losses, or you keep swinging. The clever ones learn to swing again with the right bet at the right time.

Whatever the decision is regarding the next manager, it will be a gamble. Moshiri has gone for a big bet at short odds. He wants the glory as much as the money and for that, I take my hat off to him.

Tony Abrahams
70 Posted 20/12/2019 at 15:20:48
Everton haven’t won a trophy for 25 years, and some fans have major concerns about appointing a serial winner?

Duncan Ferguson has done a great job, brought back our spirit, and spoke loads of sense, when he said Everton need the best manager in the world, especially because he wants to learn off him, and eventually become the manager of the club he loves, if everything turns out alright and he learns loads off Ancelloti?

Most things are rumours, but if Usmanov was in that meeting the other day, I’m sure he will have been telling his accountant to keep an eye on the figures, even if money is no option to the boss?

Conor McCourt
71 Posted 20/12/2019 at 15:34:05
Winston 53-you use the scum as evidence to promote Ancelotti but likewise I feel they are the ideal example as to why Ancelotti is the wrong route to take. Their success has been built on a clear philosophy and strategy and they sought out the worlds most up and coming coach whose career had been built on improving teams but had yet tasted the glory his work had richly deserved. The club then bought into his hunger, his vision, created affinity with the fan base and gave him carte blanch to mould a squad year on year to what they are now.

You argue Ancelotti will just replace Keane, well he has about fifteen others as well that aren't good enough so Moshiri will need deep pockets. But you also feel Brands is going to continue to develop young talent? You really think Ancelotti will be coming here to work with players who won't be ready for a couple of seasons? If Ancelotti comes he will not be accepting some of the stuff Silva had to this summer he will demand control as he'll want instant results. Brands will be reduced to a negotiations role for Ancelottis desires.

Gerard 58- Barney must have been reading Tweb yesterday as I was stating that very argument. I'm truly gutted Arteta is confirmed at Arsenal.

Jay Wood

72 Posted 20/12/2019 at 15:39:53
Unai Emery, in endorsing Arteta's appointment at Arsenal, also confirms himself that Everton did indeed sound him out to be our next manager:

"Different teams have expressed interest. To be honest I want to thank them [Everton and others] for wanting me and I told them that I wanted to be quiet, that I need to take a little bit of air. And to choose well the next project after many years of not stopping."


Steve Ferns
73 Posted 20/12/2019 at 15:46:58
Jay, I think we have done our due diligence. I don't think it was quite the mess portrayed here on TW. I think the club have been after Ancelotti since the training ground incident on 5th November. This was just after the Tottenham game and whilst we had briefly rallied before losing the three games which ultimately led to the sack.

I would like to think that Brands and co were in the process of drawing up a contingency plan if they sacked Silva, and that events following the training ground incident were such that everyone knew the writing was on the wall for Ancelotti. I would expect that we'd lined him up before he was sacked.

But nethertheless, it appears we spoke to Emery, Pereira and others, even if we only ever wanted Ancelotti.

Jay Wood

74 Posted 20/12/2019 at 15:58:51
Yeah, I tend to agree with your synopsis Steve.

I don't think it was headless chickens running around in the wake of the Derby loss as some derided the club. The rumours of a Moyes return, or a Mark Hughes appointment, were typical tabloid fabrications.

That managers of the quality of Pochettino, Emery and Ancelotti were suddenly available to us AND that the club evidently approached them I personally find encouraging on two levels:

1) their obvious qualities well above the type of manager we have recruited in recent years
2) that the board were thinking big and long-term and not considering a 'meh' short term caretaker appointment for this season only with the remit of avoiding relegation

Still, I'm keeping mum until the coronation of the new manager is confirmed.

This is Everton, after all!

Steve Ferns
75 Posted 20/12/2019 at 16:02:03
Jay, I do believe that the club had Moyes lined up to take over. Stuart Webber of Norwich City (Sporting Director rather than Director of Football but essentially the same job) says that he has two managers lined up at any given time. Farke could get poached and leave, or he could drop dead or become incapacitated and so he needed to be ready.

What's to say Brands wasn't moving to secure Ancelotti, but had Moyes as his fail safe?

Kieran Kinsella
76 Posted 20/12/2019 at 16:06:45

What were the fireworks on Nov 5 you mentioned?

Jay Wood

77 Posted 20/12/2019 at 16:11:46
And I'll repeat what I said at the time Steve:

Only one person would be promoting that solution, and that if either or both Moshiri and Brands were giving serious consideration to the return of the no-longer-red-haired-one on the word of the dewy-eyed-one, then they really know or understand NOTHING about Everton and how his return would be received by the overwhelming majority of Blues, as confirmed by TW's poll and similar polls on t'net.

Paul Tran
78 Posted 20/12/2019 at 16:13:58
I always said it wouldn't be Moyes, Steve.

Most sports journalists clearly have a view that Everton is a small-time, small-minded club. That's why they pushed the Moyes line so strongly. I suspect if we'd got Arteta, he would have been preceived as a risk. Now Arsenal have him, it's a bold, exciting appointment. Similarly, us getting Ancelotti is strange, or a panic move, whereas for Arsenal, he would be perceived as a perfect fit.

Fair play to Martin Samuel & Henry Winter for bucking the trend. They and I see this as a serious appointment by an ambitious owner.

Mike Gaynes
79 Posted 20/12/2019 at 16:14:20
Paul #69, good point. Whatever else that can be said about Moshiri, it's clear that he's truly committed to the club's excellence and he's willing to pay up to achieve it.

Gerard #58, Cahill is around, or was at last report -- I read somewhere back in October that he was at Finch Farm working on his badge qualifications.

Jay #61, according to several articles I read last week -- most notably Laurens at ESPNFC -- Arsenal was never the slightest bit interested in Ancelotti, and the rumors were baseless.

Mike Gaynes
80 Posted 20/12/2019 at 16:15:43
Steve #75, I know you and lots of others believe that, but I am absolutely convinced that Moyes was never under consideration.
Steve Ferns
81 Posted 20/12/2019 at 16:22:38
Kieran, when Napoli gave their players "detention". In Italian it is called "ritiro". The President of Napoli ordered the players that they had to reside at the training ground and do extra sessions and could not go home to their wives, girlfriends, children, or other families. They stayed there for 3 days and when still not released they decided to leave. The President's son came down and got in a fight with some of them, something described as an "altercation" anyway. Ancelotti supported his players and allowed them to leave. The President then said it was up to Ancelotti. It was viewed at the time as the President daring Ancelotti to defy him. He did. After that results really took a turn for the worse. But how can you expect a winning team from this backdrop?

James Horncastle Link

Gabriel Marcotti: Link

These are two of the best English speaking journalists on Serie A and even though I don't watch much of Serie A, I like to keep abreast of their work as there's always something hilarious going on.

Remember, Napoli could easily have carried on with Gattuso, then decided to fire him. Italy is different, they don't then go and hire a third manager, often they go back to the first manager, and so back in would come Ancelotti. Then they could fire him again! One guy was fired three times in one season by the same club. And this is why we still have to pay compensation.

Robert Tressell
82 Posted 20/12/2019 at 16:24:16
Mike I totally agree. Bill Kenwright might have fancied a reunion but id be v surprised if anyone in a decision making capacity was genuinely interested
Steve Ferns
83 Posted 20/12/2019 at 16:25:51
Mike, I was told it by two different people one of whom is the friend of a guy on a coaching staff of a certain championship club who employ one of Moyes' staff and they had allowed Moyes to speak to him and confirmed that they would not stand in his way to rejoin Everton. My friend told me that Moyes and his team had bags packed and were waiting by the phone for a phone call. Another friend told me that Everton had been in touch with Moyes as well and had him lined up to replace Silva. Both of these things were told to me around the same time which was around the time of the Watford Cup game.
Martin Mason
84 Posted 20/12/2019 at 16:31:04
I have a lot of sympathy for Darren's views. For me it's not a matter of how good a manager CA is at the clubs he's been at but how good he will be at EFC with an average squad and limited resources. For example we may have money to buy but we can't compete with the top 6 when it comes to attracting players. I'd have much preferred a younger manager who could grow into the position and grow the team organically. I'm not sure he's that person and I think this could be a disaster of biblical proportions.
Andrew Dempsey
85 Posted 20/12/2019 at 16:33:27
Brian 24

How’d you know where I live?
A lot of assumptions in your highly original response. I can tell you it’s definitely less than 100 miles away from Goodison, so I’m afraid my negativity could be responsible for destabilising the whole Ancelotti project.

Jay 60

You left Arteta off that list, he could still come to us in a few years. You also left
Duncan Ferguson and Tim Cahill off that list, both are keen to be managers one day, and really, these three names and the only ones we’re interested in.

Jimmy Hogan
86 Posted 20/12/2019 at 16:35:19
If only we could bug Bill's phone,

Bill - We're not going to give it to you Davey,

Moyes - Is it Eddie Howe?

Bill - No, it's three times Champions League winner, Carlo Ancellotti

Moyes - Och Aye. Is he foreign?

Robert Tressell
87 Posted 20/12/2019 at 16:39:26
This, like many other threads, seems to boil down to:

1. Grave concerns that we have appointed someone (or seem to be about to) who isn't 100% certain to be the right man

2. No clear idea of who the right man is (I expected Genesio ex-Lyon now earning a packet in China - lots of other suggestions all with their strengths and usually considerable weaknesses)

3. Someone played a practical joke on David Moyes (bit mean but quite funny)

In truth none if us have a clue how this will work out. Its uncharted territory in my lifetime to show such ambition. Just hope the British boys who've shown such desire under Dunc form the spine if the side and we surround them with better quality. Ancelloti does know how to handle quality players after all.

Andrew James
88 Posted 20/12/2019 at 17:00:18

A couple of things. You have drawn, rightly, attention to him hopping from one big European giant to another.

Well that's more or less the fate of a top coach who has won multiple Champions Leagues. You end up being a target for all the mad, impatient owners and chairmen who think you're the silver bullet and, once you haven't satisfied their demand, often within a season or two, they fire you. The clubs he's been at have high turnovers and so one would maybe question the clubs and not the personality of Ancelotti.

I don't see him being all that different from most coaches in that band. They see being fired as inevitable.

Let's remember, club owners play dirty tricks through the media and internally to get out a coach who has done little wrong. Look at Madrid, Munich and PSG. Perhaps his alleged bust-ups have been exaggerated to excuse club owners from being seen as chaotic, fickle or unattractive to future hires.

That aside, I think you might have combined parts of his reign at Parma with his time at Juve. Regarding Baggio, he had the chance to buy him while at Parma I think and wasn't dismissed at Juve as a consequence which is how your article reads.

You also went straight to the defeat in 2005 but overlooked the 2003 Champions League win which was Milan's first in a decade and that he learned from 2005 to beat the RS and win the rematch in 2007.

He also won Madrid their first CL for a while in 2014. You talk about their great set of players, which is totally correct, but they'd not won it and had to watch on while Barcelona dominated. Mourinho couldn't win it with the same group.

You seem to really dislike the idea of him coming but, when you put things in context, I'm not sure quite why.

What I will say in context, is when looking at trophies, the full story doesn't always come out. An awful lot of his wins have come via penalty shoot outs which backs up your bed of roses remark. Sign of a true winner or someone who has been very lucky?

Kieran Kinsella
89 Posted 20/12/2019 at 17:03:44
Steve Ferns

Thanks for the detail. The Napoli owner seems like a bit of an odd ball

Steve Ferns
90 Posted 20/12/2019 at 17:09:53
The thing is Kieran, he's normal by Italian standards. Even if you cannot be arsed watching the highlights of Serie A, it is worth keeping up to date with the comings and goings. Every week something in Italian football makes you laugh uncontrollably, even if it's something you shouldn't laugh at, ie the Italian anti-racism campaign: Link Serie A is a soap opera with football as a backdrop rather than the main attraction.
Kieran Kinsella
91 Posted 20/12/2019 at 17:13:00

I used to follow Italian football avidly back when it was on Channel 4 before the wall to wall EPL coverage. Berlusconi of Milan was the corrupt, nutter of an owner back then. That whole anti-racism thing was cringeworthy. I can understand what the artist was trying to convey but it is one of those things were you're trying to be way too clever for your own good and miss the fact that 90% of people are going to look at it purely on face value. You'd have thought someone would have the common sense to tell him it was a terrible idea.

Conor McCourt
92 Posted 20/12/2019 at 17:23:28
Steve Ferns- it would be better to deal in fact and not conjecture on how the club have gone about replacing Silva. To suggest they have been in control all along is baffling and to deride twebbers concerns because an end is in sight is just fabrication on your part.

You then go on to speculate that Ancelotti is Brands choice which seems counterintuitive to everything we have ever heard from Brands on his vision for the club and would surely handcuff him. Yes it is possible but again not probable.

Finally I wish to correct you on his time at Napoli and inference on the owner. While you have correctly given Ancelotti the many plaudits he deserves for his illustrious career you seem to imply that he was as successful as Sarri in Naples and this years results were in large part due to the backdrop of revolt against the owner. In reality Sarri was close to the title and Ancelotti finished 12 points worse off with their lowest points total for 5 years. The teams decline continued this season while Ancelotti watched on haplessly Silva-like. Off the field issues clearly magnified the struggles but they certainly weren't causal.

Robert Tressell
93 Posted 20/12/2019 at 17:25:23
The anti-racism thing was pretty awful. You got the impression someone somewhere was sniggering about it. V sad. Weird too, that era od channel 4 serie A had some magnificent footballers. Desailly, weah and others. Loved that goal when Weah ran the length of the pitch and slotted home after beating half the opposition on his own. Rumours abound that Royle was trying to sign him. Probably lots of people saying on toffeweb at the time that it would be better to buy Neil Shipperley (pre indecent exposure incident)
Andrew Laird
94 Posted 20/12/2019 at 17:56:54
It seems Everton is more of a virus nowadays, it affects people’s well being. It makes people yearn to be proved right so the pain feels sweeter, all hope is abandoned and the blue stream of piss from another Everton supporter is never far from other Everton fans’ chips. If anything, it runs parallel to how the media want us to fail, it’s nauseating. The little relief felt from the tubthumping of a suit jacket less “bluenose” is all we should asipire to? Yes, that will work for a few games and then it’s Ferguson’s time to be crucified by the masses before he’s ever really had a proper chance? Fuck off.

The article is about as negative as I’ve ever read on here, I imagine if Ancelotti was an unused sub on our bench in the 95 cup final the whole article would be about how Ancelotti is the greatest manager the world has ever seen. He’s better than Ferguson, he’s better than Unsworth and he’s way better than any other manager we have been linked with. What the hell are you whinging about?!

Andrew Laird
95 Posted 20/12/2019 at 17:58:04
I’d also add that any “best back 4 ever” for Milan that didn’t have Baresi and Maldini in it was just a back 4.
Andrew Dempsey
96 Posted 20/12/2019 at 18:34:04
Andrew Laird,

It’s ok to have massive reservations about Carlo’s ability to transform Everton isn’t it?
Doesn’t mean I won’t get behind him when he’s here.
And, I will get excited if he starts buying 4 or 5 players who potentially give us some tasty football to watch.
I think, the initial emotional response to this (based on Ancelotti’s performance as a manager in the last 5 years or so) was ‘this is another colossal waste of money’ but now the dust has settled a bit and it’s actually happening, I’m very much in the camp of, let’s see what happens.
It’s not about being proved right or wrong, for me, and I can see your point that Darren taking such a hardline stance before he’s even signed a contract is provocative in the extreme.
Maybe he’ll calm down once we sign some world class players and then beat the RS in the 3rd round.

It’s possibly very irresponsible from Moshiri, but it’s only football, it’s meant to be a distraction from real life.
And this could be a fun ride.
If it all goes tits up, Duncan will have the jacket off sharpish, and we’ll be fine.

Simon Dalzell
97 Posted 20/12/2019 at 18:35:40
Very interesting and informative, Darren. Saying Ancelotti is certain to fail is a bit much.
Stan Schofield
99 Posted 20/12/2019 at 18:52:21
Andrew@96: Good post. In a way, there's nothing to lose here for us supporters. We're getting a world class manager, which is raising a lot of eyebrows (but not as high Ancellotti's left one), pissing-off a lot of the media (which is always amusing), raising Everton's profile and increasing the chance of getting better players (which is what we always want), and generally making for interesting times.

As you say, if it goes tits up at least we now know we've got Big Dunc to come back in and reset things.

Dave Abrahams
100 Posted 20/12/2019 at 19:21:50
Brent (50), we’ll have that pint soon Brent, but not on a cold damp night in Southport, we are are one down after an early goal, Vieira, still plenty of time to come back.
Jay Harris
101 Posted 20/12/2019 at 19:26:34
Great to see you back although I would have preferred a less opinionated, Bigoted post from you as your comeback article.

I usually agree with much of what you say but in this case our views are poles apart.

I have pulled what little hair I have left out at the appointments of Martinez and Silva, both relegation managers and totally unsuited to a club with ambition.

Koeman, I thought, was the right man but got undermined by BK with his swap Lukaku for Rooney and make some money antics which Koeman couldnt and wouldnt live with.

However to have the opportunity of bringing inone of the most successful managers of his lifetime to our club shows the ambition and brings in the quality that most of us have yearned for.

IMO this man will only improve the club, the playing squad and the backroom staff.

He will not tolerate any interference by Kenwright and will show real leadership qualities.

He is not some has been looking for his last big payday, he is still highly motivated to winning things and as a plus is the only manager to have beaten the RS this season.

Klopps CV dwarfs in comparison so that is good enough for me.

Andrew Laird
102 Posted 20/12/2019 at 19:28:26
Andrew @96. Of course it’s ok to have reservations about anything as long as it is has context and perspective. The article’s pessimism and pathetic attempts to pass off Ancelottis numerous trophy’s as expected is laughable. A trophy or 2 is luck, 15 major honours is completely down to ability. The article has already said the fella’s boat has sank before he has even set sail which is absolutely ridiculous. It’s the white flag before a ball has been kicked, it’s Moyes bringing a “matchstick to a shank fight”.

The terraces at Goodison are full of negative bile (I cannot think of a single player who hasn’t had dogs abuse in the last few years) and it’s time everyone (as you say) got behind the manager (whether they wore blue or not) and the players and have an atmosphere that allows Everton to be brave for a fucking change!

Adrian Evans
103 Posted 20/12/2019 at 19:32:47
This smells of a lot more money than Moshiri has.

Supposed to be building a £500 million stadium,throwing £30 million away paying, paying off managers in four years.
Carlo has come on a fortune annually and has been told hes got the funds to build a champions league side. "After he keeps us up" £2.5 million bonus,hope he bungs big Dunk a few quid if he hoovers up 9 points 4 games maybe 12.??
He must have £200/£300million to play with over three or four years.

This smells of Alisher Usmanov 's £12 billion quid.
If it is who cares as long as he acts properly towards the club,its status,history.Get amongst the RS,USA,City Oil money,Utd USA now us.

Dream team,dream times why be negative.

As long as we get great football and we are successfull again.

Gotta do it on the pitch now,trophies on the shelf.

Just get behind em.Enjoy

Darren Hind
104 Posted 20/12/2019 at 20:16:43
To be honest, I thought I would be swimming a little against the tide when I submitted this article, but it's kinda reassuring to see that the majority (including fans who live local) think it's right to look beyond the well documented and in many cases spoon-fed success of Ancelotti.

If he has a history (and he does) of getting sacked by clubs who have paid him handsomely, then why on earth should it not be discussed? Why should his successes be lauded, but his shortcomings swept under the carpet? Those who want to focus on his success and turn a blind eye to all those dismissals and, in some cases, player revolts are perfectly at liberty to do so.

I didn't invent Ancelotti's sackings or the player revolts against him. They happened. They are a matter of fact. Those claiming I am misrepresenting him by saying he inherited so many world-class players are in denial. He did; he inherited far more top drawer players than he ever brought in. Try listing them.

I find reading claims that the article is overly negative really rather bemusing. I'm calling for the guy who has brought this tidal wave of positivity to be given the job... is that negative? Really?

And yes, I did advocate that Unsworth should be given the job, but the club did what all those naysayers wanted them to do. They overlooked him. They went with Big Sam instead and later Marco Silva. Remind me... How did that go? After spending north of £300 million on players, agents and wages, Ferguson found himself in exactly the same position Rhino inherited two years ago... Some progress that.

Finally, I was asked to quantify what I said about Ancelotti failing... to provide a benchmark. That's easy: anything short of silverware and Champions League football by the end of next season has to be deemed failure. The people who are saying he should get the job – and therefore become one of the world's highest-paid managers must surely expect him to win trophies?Otherwise, what would be the point?

If we are going to hire the guy on the grounds that he is a "serial winner", we can't start making excuses for him if he doesn't deliver.


Laurie Hartley
106 Posted 20/12/2019 at 20:54:00
Paul # 69 & Mike # 79 - good to see you giving the owner Farhad Moshiri the credit he deserves. He has got deep pockets and is not afraid to dip into them.

He doesn’t loose his nerve easily this man. He is showing a level of commitment that should be a source of hope for all Evertonians.

I think we should back him in every move he makes, because if he fails, it’s good night Everton.

Kim Vivian
107 Posted 20/12/2019 at 21:01:23
Well that is a broadly well written, well constructed and utterly depressing post, basically full of facts which I cannot dispute but will take at face value, a slightly odd analogy to conclude, and all counterbalanced to some extent by Steve's tome at 54 which cheered me up a bit.

So basically Darren does not see any merit in this appointment, believes, and by the sounds of it hopes, it will fail ( without re-reading it I can't recall a sliver of hope or good will).

As far as the analogy goes I think it is fair to say we have our plot, foundations and architects (the level of their competence feel free to debate), and your rich playboy is always going to be mightily involved in interior design, fittings and decoration matters. Although I would say, to keep within the analogy, his wife will.

No-one can predict accurately how this will pan out and we do not know any of the background machinations of which there seem to be a significant number if rumours and gossip can be listened to. For myself - I cannot quite believe what we may have pulled off and I am optimistic - considerably more so than the vain hope I harboured for Martinez and Silva. Sam did what he came for and Koeman I thought would turn out well.

I said on another thread that it all seems a little surreal. I can't quite work out how the initial dovetailing of Ancelotti into our structure will work but surely due diligence has been carried out.

I am actually fearful it might go tits up against the Arse, but a good win tomorrow please lads to end Duncan's temporary shift on a high,
Set a further good example to CA, and look positively to the immediate future. COYB

Don Alexander
108 Posted 20/12/2019 at 21:02:01
The article reminds me of the dickhead passion I had as a juvenile for all things Everton, regardless of the big nasty world beyond.

That said, passion is to be applauded, and especially on match days if it's from one and all, but mainly the players. What happens during the rest of the Finch Farm week is the mystery that needs solving by someone who knows how to win, and is given the tools to do it.

It'll be costly in any event.

Robert Tressell
109 Posted 20/12/2019 at 21:20:53
Personally I'm glad we've given Guardiola the swerve. Seems overrated. Inherits top sides and then spends a fortune. Also the sides he leaves seem to deteriorate afterwards, which is his fault. Lot of his players look v lightweight. I'd be concerned about that. Obviously also disappointing to get Ancelloti because he's had a lot of luck over a 20 year period and that luck will run out. Immediately. Despite only being a handful of points off 5th it would make more sense to think short term and small, and appoint a steady eddie to make sure we don't get relegated. Deeply suspicious if we spend some money in January too. What happened to finding hidden gems? All in all this club has behaved disgracefully by not appointing someone who would definitely be better than Ancelotti
Tony Hill
110 Posted 20/12/2019 at 22:57:29
Darren @104, I would expect European football by the end of next season and then I would expect your benchmarks to be met by the end of the next one.

Much, though, depends on Ancelotti’s budget because our current players are not Champions League standard and no manager in the world could make them so.

Steve Ferns
111 Posted 20/12/2019 at 23:30:47
Conor McCourt #92 you said:

"Steve Ferns- it would be better to deal in fact and not conjecture on how the club have gone about replacing Silva. To suggest they have been in control all along is baffling and to deride twebbers concerns because an end is in sight is just fabrication on your part."

I did not state my opinion as fact. I used the word "think" five times and "would not expect" another. My post clearly is marked as my opinion and observation. So I have no idea what you are getting at. Am I not allowed to disagree with a consensus and give my opinion?

I disagree with your "correction" of my opinion of his time at Napoli. Indeed Sarri finished second like Ancelotti did. Indeed Sarri ran Juve a lot closer and was just 4 points back as opposed to 11, and yes he got 79 points as opposed to 91.

But what about the rest. Sarri crashed out of the Champions League losing four games, and winning only 2 games, home to Feyenoord and home to Shaktar. Finishing below Shaktar by 6 points is a major failing for an Italian side. Now Ancelotti also finished 3rd. But the story here is one we may remember. He got 9 points, 3 more than Sarri. But he did not have Feyenoord and Shaktar in his group, he had PSG, Liverpool and Red Star Belgrade. After a disappointing draw to Red Star (away), they beat Liverpool in the San Paolo, got a point in Paris, held the Parisians to another draw in Naples, beat Red Star, and then lost be a solitary Salah goal at Anfield to be beaten into 3rd by Liverpool. Liverpool and Napoli had the same points (9), so it went to head to head and with the result 1-0 at each home ground, they could not be separated, goal difference was both plus 2, and so Liverpool went through on goals scored. If only Napoli had scored another goal at home to Red Star, or even if they had sneaked a late winner, and Ancelotti's Napoli would have prevented the RS winning the Champions League last season.

In the Europa League Sarri was knocked straight out by Leipzig. Ancelotti made it to the quarter finals losing to Arsenal. Both made it to the Italian Cup Quarter Finals.

we also need to take into account the transfers. Sarri raided Napoli for Jorginho, Pepe Reina left on a Bosman, Zapata was sold to Samp, and Hamsik was sold to China. €90m Euros raised but only just over half was reinvested, spent on Verdi from Bologna, and Ruiz from Betis. Other transfers were a couple of keepers from Udinese and Ciciretti from the hapless Benevento. So, Ancelotti did not have the strength of team that Sarri did. But despite this, he still got them to 2nd once more, and almost got them out of an extremely tough Champions League group including the eventual winners.

This summer Ancelotti was given Chucky Lozano, Elif from Fener, and Kostas from Roma as Napoli splashed the cash, following criticism of the selling of the squad the year before. Results were expected. Ancelotti had Napoli in the top 4, and then defeat to Roma dropped them to 7th and the events described in my post at #81 occurred and even then Ancelotti was still in 7th, but now falling away from the top 4 when sacked, and this time he did get them out of their CL group qualifying for the knockouts.

Conor, you may think Ancelotti did crap at Napoli. I think he did well. I think this season was still in progress and was maybe not quite on track, but still going fairly well until the President pressed the self-destruct button, with the Champions League knockouts still to come and plenty of time to close the gap and get back into the top 4.

Andy Crooks
112 Posted 20/12/2019 at 23:40:48
Really good piece, Darren. Made me reconsider my views. However, Ancelotti it seems, is the man. Like me you will be right behind him, hoping that Moshiri has fluked a double six. If not, fucked, is what we are.
Steve Ferns
113 Posted 20/12/2019 at 23:43:15
All this talk of double six, I think that the double six will be Ancelotti's preferred formation for Everton!!!
Tony Abrahams
114 Posted 21/12/2019 at 07:22:18
In many cases spoon fed success of Ancelotti? Football is easy sometimes, but when you’ve been drip-fed shite for years, I suppose it’s very worrying, and not at all reassuring, when your team goes for one of the very best in the business.

If the serial winner doesn’t do his job Darren, do you really think our desperate fan-base will make excuses for him? I know you better than to say that you’re willing failure Darren, and I know you have been more right than wrong when it comes to Everton managers, but get behind Carlo Ancelotti, because that’s what he’s hopefully going to be from Monday morning, and even if he fails, isn’t it great to see Everton Football Club going for and getting, one of the very best managers of recent time?

Steve Ferns
115 Posted 21/12/2019 at 09:41:27
Tony, he’s one of 3 managers to ever win the European Cup / Champions League on three or more occasions.

The others are, of course, Bob Paisley and Zinedine Zidane. Both did it three times with the same club.

Therefore, he’s won it more than Mourinho (2), more than Rafa (1), more than Klopp (1), more than Lippi (1), more than Capello (1), more than Sacchi (2), or anyone else you care to name.

When you tot up with UEFA titles he’s won 7 of them. Again, this is the most. Here only Sir Alex Ferguson and Il Trap (Trapattoni) can match him. Trap winning 3 UEFA Cups and 1 CL.

For the Club World Cup, Guardiola has won it 3 times (remember he inherited CL winning Bayern and never won the CL with them), whilst Ancelotti and Zidane are the only other managers to win the competition more than once. Ancelotti missed out on a third as the competition started to be annual in 2005 and his first CL win would have made him eligible in 2004.

Ancelotti is the only manager in history to win four or more of the “Big 5” European Leagues. The Big 5 being in Uefa coefficient order: Spain, England, Germany, Italy and France. Ancelotti should have had all 5 but never won the league with Real Madrid. Guardiola is on 3 of the leagues, with Italy and France left. Mourinho needs France and Germany.

If you tot up total major trophies won, then Guardiola and Mourinho of the active managers are the only ones ahead.

I may have reservations about how he can get the job done, but his honour roll is mind blowing. This guy could easily have gone on his holiday to Vancouver and then waited until the summer and had his pick from the best clubs in the world. That he’s coming here is nothing short of sensational.

Rick Tarleton
116 Posted 21/12/2019 at 09:47:05
Like Darren, I have reservations about Ancelotti. I'm also not sure he'll actually sign on the dotted line. Everton are a provincial, midtable club, who need a lot of hard work.

Paul Tran
117 Posted 21/12/2019 at 10:02:32
I'm sure everyone wants Ancelotti to be a success. I'm also sure that everyone has some reservations about every potential candidate for the job.

I'm glad Moshiri is still dreaming, despite his poor recruitment and decision-making. I hope he's learnt from his mistakes, like most successful people do.

In my experience, most people who dream, and put their money/life where their mouth is, are successful. They get disappointed, they keep going till they succeed. It can be harder than being cynical, but it's more fun once you get there.

Ferguson's worked hard to live his dream and may get another chance in time. He deserves our thanks for lifting us. Ancelotti,like many top managers, has had sacking. Unlike many top managers, he's got a string of trophies in different countries. I always think with managers that it's not whether they're sacked, but where they end up. He ends up at good clubs and wins them titles. I hope he does it with us.

I never want to stop trying to do better, be better, believing I can be better. I'm glad Moshiri thinks the same way about my club.

Steve Ferns
118 Posted 21/12/2019 at 10:05:13
Well said Paul.
Sam Barrett
119 Posted 21/12/2019 at 10:39:48
Sometimes I fuckn despair at the thoughts of some Evertonians. This is the thinking that has us trophyless for a generation.
David Moyes it is then
James Marshall
120 Posted 21/12/2019 at 10:57:27
Well said indeed Paul@117 and Sam@119

Moshiri is throwing money at it, and rightly so. It seems a fair amount of Evertonians are still struggling to throw off the small club mentality. Get behind the club, finally trying to think big!

In my view we should be shooting for the stars, not employing perennial losers.

Conor McCourt
121 Posted 21/12/2019 at 11:18:56
Steve 111- You are pissing against the wind.

I didn't mention their CL records in Napoli because they are similar as are their Cup records. You conveniently left out that Sarri in his other season topped the group on 11 points to falsely give the impression that Ancelotti did better in Europe with Napoli.

It is the league which is your bread and butter. Ancelotti was brought to win or at least compete for the title. Yes he lost Jorginho in his first season but Sarri lost his best player Higuain one season so the excuse is quite poor especially when you consider that they spent their record transfer budget this season to help Ancelotti achieve their targets.

As had happened at Bayern players were already complaining about tactics and fitness. Their demise continued and as you say they were a poor seventh before the situation with the owner and in a slump. You argue "results were as expected" By whom? Their fans would have expected them to be top considering Juve weren't at full throttle. My mate watches them regularly and he sounded like Evertonians did about Marco, gormless lifeless and no answers, Sarri ball was well and truly dead.

Certainly the owner situation didn't help but his intervention came due to pressure from the fans because of how poor they were playing and how they were or more accurately weren't working under Carlo.

Just to put their drop into context we would be 13/14 points worse than last season if we continue as we have all season. Ancelotti in his first was 12, this season they were in free fall.

If you think this is "going well" let's hope he doesn't go well at Everton and produces the type of overachievement he did at Parma instead.

Paul Tran
122 Posted 21/12/2019 at 11:22:24
Announcelotti! He's ours! It's official!
Andrew Keatley
123 Posted 21/12/2019 at 11:24:18
Paul (122) - Ha! If that is auto-correct then it’s delicious, and if it’s a deliberate pun then it’s inspired.
Jay Wood

124 Posted 21/12/2019 at 11:27:25
Paul @ 122.

Brilliant! And that's just your play on words.

Ucking ecstatic that Carlo is confirmed.

BIG 'YES!!!!' from me.

Paul Tran
125 Posted 21/12/2019 at 11:58:26
Thanks Jay & Andrew. No autocorrect, but no originality. It's been a hashtag on Twitter for a couple of days!
David Cash
126 Posted 21/12/2019 at 17:08:15
Lol Dazza. You'd cause murder in an empty house.
I watched the game in a pub in High wycombe today. I met two blues who were talking about somebody already rocking the boat on TW. I just knew it would be you. Fair play. Your diplomatic skills may continue to fall short, but you certainly know how to start debate.

I can't have Big Dunc, mate. He's done a good job. But the red mist has always descended a little too readily for me. We will need a cool head in the games we are expected to win..

Like a lot of others on here. I too have reservations about Carlo, but for different reasons than you. I think he is a spent force.


I think you are right about some showing a small club mentality. This appointmentment has shades of Samual Eto about it. I feel we are cheering the signing of somebody who once was brilliant for Europes elite, but doesn't interest them anymore. Ancelotti is probably having to pinch himself. Just when he thought the big contracts were a thing of the past. In steps good old Everton.

I cant believe a manager who has been past his best for some time now will somehow rekindle his his glory days with a squad as ordinary as ours

This appointment would have excited me 5 years ago. I hope I'm wrong. I pray Dazza is

Raymond Fox
127 Posted 21/12/2019 at 20:20:35
Well we have now got a manager that we know has the ability to win big competitions. What we are short of are some world class players, Ancelotti won't win anything with the squad we have now.

He must have had assurances that the club are going all out to recruit the very best players, his appointment does not make sense otherwise. Whether we will be successful in attracting the right players to Goodison has to be a concern, but having Ancelotti will definitely help.

For that reason alone, I support his hiring and believe it's our only way out of the stagnation of the last 20 odd years.

Money undoubtedly talks in the Premier League and it looks like we really mean business this time.

Peter Gorman
128 Posted 22/12/2019 at 12:38:41
Well, I love Darren's alternative views (mostly because I find myself agreeing with him) but I recall giving out on a 'sack Silva' thread that our then manager didn't appear to have a tactical bone in his body and, whatever his coaching credentials he couldn't read a game or respond to a game-time development if his life depended on it.

I said at the time that all I wanted was a manager that could do this – and then how! Ancelotti could be the world's best.

Truth be told, maybe it isn't the right time for him, maybe we are better off with a 'Brendan Rogers' type who can do a little from Column A and a little from Column B; improve the players and not cock-up so incessantly during a match, as Silva would.

But seriously, how can we look a gift-horse in the mouth. Given the volume of RS goblins cluttering up every comment section of every article written about our new manager, that serves as a glowing endorsement as far as I am concerned.

Simon Dalzell
129 Posted 23/12/2019 at 15:04:57
Type or paste your comment here. PLEASE capitalise initial letters of proper names and use proper grammar. No txt-speak; all-lowercase posts are likely to be deleted

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