Jordan Pickford believes Everton “have the ability in the squad” to beat Liverpool when they meet in the Merseyside derby at Goodison Park on Sunday 21 June.
“We want to win every game we play and any sort of derby match is massive for the fans and for players,” Pickford told Sky Sports News.
“We want to show how good we can be and we have an opportunity to beat them. We know they are a good side, they are top of the league. We just want to do our best and try to beat them.
“We know we have the ability in the squad to beat them. We just want to do it for ourselves and our fans.”
It's a brave claim to make after Everton's painful derby experiences in recent years, with Liverpool riding high as runaway leaders of the Premier League.
But professional footballers have to believe in one thing — their ability, and this derby will be like no other before it, with fans barred from attending under current coronavirus restrictions, and the rules of the game changed as a consequence after the lockdown.
“Obviously it's been difficult but it's nice to spend time with your family and get a nice big break,” Pickford added.
“I've not had a break from football since I was probably a 16-year-old — I've been in the England set-up since then — so it's nice for my mind and body to have a reset.
“We're getting ready to go again but it's been a nice eight or nine weeks off, in the sense of giving your body time to relax.”
Pickford himself will forever be associated with the most horrible goalkeeping gaffe ever seen in a Merseyside derby when he gifted the winning goal to Everton nemesis Origi in the last minute of added time in the Anfield game in December 2018.
But a win two weeks tomorrow would indeed go a long way to expunging such memories and setting Everton on a new track in a fixture that has become a seasonal nightmare for many Blues fans.
Reader Comments (101)
Note: the following content is not moderated or vetted by the site owners at the time of submission. Comments are the responsibility of the poster. Disclaimer
1 Posted 06/06/2020 at 10:48:43
2 Posted 06/06/2020 at 10:52:11
That said... COYB ðŸ‘
3 Posted 06/06/2020 at 11:06:58
4 Posted 06/06/2020 at 11:14:02
5 Posted 06/06/2020 at 11:14:48
We need to keep their full-backs quiet and, with our forward line, we always have a chance. Bring it on!
6 Posted 06/06/2020 at 11:26:27
7 Posted 06/06/2020 at 11:43:57
However, I suspect some of them (you know who you are) probably know they're on their way out soon and will probably just be going through their contractual obligations... ðŸ˜‰ðŸ˜
8 Posted 06/06/2020 at 12:01:35
9 Posted 06/06/2020 at 12:05:45
10 Posted 06/06/2020 at 12:09:05
11 Posted 06/06/2020 at 12:14:02
12 Posted 06/06/2020 at 12:22:29
Spouting off before any game doesn't help Everton's plight â€“ no more so than vs the RS.
I'd like to see how the Everton midfield and defence is going to compete and tackle the RS aggressively, for 98 minutes.
It's been a long time off for both squads but in terms of fitness we always seem knackered after 25 minutes and then the rest of the game is a struggle to keep any momentum.
Hopefully we will be pleasantly surprised.
14 Posted 06/06/2020 at 12:54:57
In some ways, I'm not arsed if they win the title against us â€“ there'll be no fans there to celebrate with, and they'd probably prefer to clinch it at Anfield. It's a foregone conclusion that they'll win it within a couple of games of the restart anyway, so the sooner the better. Get it over with.
15 Posted 06/06/2020 at 13:05:10
The reality, of course, is the all round quality that is needed to beat a team like RS when they are having such a super season and Everton generally have been very disappointing. Quite honestly, I wish the season was done with so we can all get back to the real game with crowds before the year is out, if that is possible.
Yes, it would be nice to win this one â€“ if for no other reason it's the RS and of course it would be the only real highlight of the season â€“ but the likelihood is a draw at best.
16 Posted 06/06/2020 at 13:57:24
17 Posted 06/06/2020 at 14:51:00
And if we're going anywhere with Carlo, we need a better keeper than Pickford. He's just not that good. 26 now, he's been a keeper forever and I'm accepting that what we're seeing is all we're going to get.
18 Posted 06/06/2020 at 15:20:48
I fear that he thinks he is already great & therefore probably doesn't take advice or coaching very well â€“ hence no improvement. As some posters have mentioned over time, perhaps his lack of consistency is one of the key things in our defensive frailty?
19 Posted 06/06/2020 at 15:22:45
You and other players have droned on about the talent and quality in the squad since the beginning of this abysmal season.
We are fed up with all the bullshit. Our position in the Premier League shows how much talent we have, average at best.
Do you think we have forgotten the mauling we got at Chelsea prior to the shutdown?
Please, just do your talking on the pitch.
20 Posted 06/06/2020 at 15:32:19
I can't give an opinion on his character because I've never met him, but I'd be surprised if he's the prat that some seem to think he is. As long as he's picked for Everton, he'll get my support; if Carlo believes he can replace him with better, then that's okay too.
As for the soundbites, you'd think that as football fans we'd be well used to them and would understand that the media has to be fed, it's what they pay for. Was Jordan supposed to say 'Our next opponents are unbeatable and we're lucky to be on the same pitch as them'?
21 Posted 06/06/2020 at 15:40:33
22 Posted 06/06/2020 at 16:03:20
Apparently so, Patrick. Geez, the defeatism here runs deep.
Give it a rest, folks. It was a perfectly appropriate answer.
23 Posted 06/06/2020 at 16:14:41
Next, he'll be including Sandy Brown's header in the list of all-time great derby goals.
24 Posted 06/06/2020 at 16:50:03
The Columbia World Cup game has long gone to some.
25 Posted 06/06/2020 at 16:51:51
It would be ironic if we beat them for the first time in ages, and none of us were there!
26 Posted 06/06/2020 at 18:20:05
27 Posted 06/06/2020 at 18:30:01
It's not a Pickford rallying cry we need but a psychiatrist and a shed-full of luck!
28 Posted 06/06/2020 at 18:55:08
"Catch them cold"? FFS â€” behave yourself.
29 Posted 06/06/2020 at 18:55:10
30 Posted 06/06/2020 at 19:06:49
31 Posted 06/06/2020 at 19:08:33
32 Posted 06/06/2020 at 19:22:58
33 Posted 06/06/2020 at 20:07:57
34 Posted 06/06/2020 at 20:10:35
I am looking forward to our dismal run coming to an end and taking 3 points off the bastards.
Don't know why but I just feel we will win this one despite the lack of midfield.
35 Posted 06/06/2020 at 20:30:08
The derby match once got the juices flowing, but I'm going back 15 years now or longer since I could be that excited about derby games, such has been our pathetic record in this fixture.
With the current climate we live in, I just can't feel excited about football right now, not when I'm living my everyday life like something from a Sci-Fi film.
If it actually gets played, and we win it, then great. Maybe if and when this horrible pandemic is brought under control, years down the line, I might look in the record books and take some pride in beating those red bastards.
But right now it's just a crazy game fitted in at a crazy time of year in a completely tits up society that, in the space of three months, has disappeared up its own arse thanks to poor governmental advice and selfish gobshite bellend people.
36 Posted 06/06/2020 at 21:45:31
The North-West sadly looks like it's facing a second spike... Looks like this will become a way of life for the foreseeable future.
Onwards Evertonians and all stay safe and well.
37 Posted 06/06/2020 at 23:25:06
Karen sums it up quite brutally but honestly. His low IQ and big ego are a dangerous combination and possibly explain his tendency to have a rush of blood and make rash decisions. like patting it into the net at Anfield when he could have watched it over or at least parried it out for a corner. The guy needs to calm down as his temperament massively impacts his decision-making.
38 Posted 06/06/2020 at 00:05:39
We do not have the quality or mental strength to beat teams like Liverpool.
Carlo needs to replace more than half the squad which will cost more than the stadium build.
39 Posted 07/06/2020 at 00:19:55
40 Posted 07/06/2020 at 01:39:02
I've gone to Goodison since 1982 and had to endure plenty of shite including the John Barnes banana fiasco, Les Ferdinand for QPR (5-2) and the Arsenal game that ended with the club making a token effort to calm things with a 1-inch piece in the programme and a tannoy announcement, plus a load of other shite over the years home and away. I've never risen to anything over the years despite very nearly losing it at Benfica away (you know who you are!) and in the Torch Pub at Wembley for the Liverpool Semi (you definitely know who you are!).
I've taken ages to write this, gone back and deleted bits and put other bits in but ultimately I THANK YOU for standing up for what's right, changing the atmosphere, making It possible for my kids and others to watch Everton without having to endure the shite I had to. COYB
41 Posted 07/06/2020 at 01:49:59
42 Posted 07/06/2020 at 02:02:29
As for Pickford... Who cares?
43 Posted 07/06/2020 at 02:54:01
44 Posted 07/06/2020 at 03:14:56
45 Posted 07/06/2020 at 07:07:35
46 Posted 07/06/2020 at 07:29:35
Your post shames me.
My mam would turn in her grave if she thought I was guilty of racism and, up until recently I believed she would have been proud of me, but having listened to numerous black men and women this week, I'm not so sure. The fact is â€“ while I know I have inherited my mothers disgust of racism â€“ I realise that I, personally, have contributed very little towards the battle to stamp it out.
I remember the incidents you talk about (not your personal ones of course). They were very real. The trouble is, too many of us did not stand up. It's simply not enough to shake your head.
As you rightly point out, we have taken huge strides to eradicate this vile behaviour, but you only have to scan Goodison on any given match day to see how few and far between black faces are, to realise that we, more than most clubs, still have a long way to go.
Thank you for your post, Kenny.
47 Posted 07/06/2020 at 07:56:47
Pickford is bang average, like Yobo was described years ago: a Rolls-Royce of a player with Lada moments. Pickford will be obliged to respond and his honest may have been to say â€˜I have shit the bed big time here loads of times and expect to be back at Sunderland soon as'. While I would appreciate such sentiments, I don't think his agent would approve.
I don't think the match will go ahead as the R is rising.
48 Posted 07/06/2020 at 08:15:29
49 Posted 07/06/2020 at 08:32:10
50 Posted 07/06/2020 at 09:15:14
An important post, thank you for sharing it. Times have changed for the better and there is still a long journey ahead. With racism, in all its forms, there is no room for complacency. It is like a fire that needs continually beating down.
I think Everton as a club have done relatively well to keep on top of it. The culture at our club is now rooted in inclusivity. I am proud of the club for embracing that.
The fans too, with the likes of the anti-racist banner supporting Moise Kean on his arrival showing our solidarity against racism. We are one great family from many diverse backgrounds, forever bound by our love for Everton Football Club.
Lots of love and respect to you and your family from this Everton supporter.
51 Posted 07/06/2020 at 09:16:49
52 Posted 07/06/2020 at 09:17:30
The reason I ask, is because I live in a town with massive social divides and massive racial tensions; however, it is between the Asian population and the White population (although there are increasing racial tensions between White and Romanian populations). This racial tension is prevalent on both sides though, it's not just the White population being racist towards the Asian population.
However, while I fully respect that things were massively different in the past, there are currently minimal tensions between the White population and the Black and Polish (who also have a strong presence) population.
I know there are certain parts of the country where it is different, but, in my experiences and where I live, there is very little racial tension between the white and black population these days. This is a massive testament to the country as a whole because, like you said, Kenny, 30-40 years ago it was bad.
I'd appreciate your thoughts as I am only speaking from my particular part of the country and not the country as a whole.
53 Posted 07/06/2020 at 09:54:14
I'm glad it's changed, and it wouldn't surprise me if Liverpool was now one of the least racist places in the country, although that's not to say it's still not under the surface within certain places.
Look at the Liverpool fans coming back from a game in Paris, early last season, and they found two asylum seekers on their coach. They kept them safe, had a laugh with them, and dropped them off near London, if I'm not mistaken, and I'm not sure this would have happened with fans from any other part of the country?
Maybe because they felt that snitching is worse than anything but I doubt it. I'm sure it was because they looked at these people with humanity, which is the only way racism will ever be truly eradicated!
54 Posted 07/06/2020 at 10:00:11
Things are better (slightly) now, than they were in the past, but there is still a long way to go and we stop looking at the colour and race of people rather than their personalities. Thanks again for your post.
55 Posted 07/06/2020 at 10:09:21
56 Posted 07/06/2020 at 10:36:05
The atmosphere at Goodison has definitely changed for the better over the years and I'm confident that any potential racial abusers these days would be rounded on by the majority rather than endured by those too scared to say anything â€“ including me, I'm ashamed to admit.
Everton has made huge strides at inclusivity and community. I'm proud of the club for that.
57 Posted 07/06/2020 at 11:00:21
I remember as a kid watching MotD in the 70s and hearing the abuse that Cyril Regis, Garth Crooks et al received. Things have got better over the years, much better, but it's still there... as most definitely is Homophobia.
58 Posted 07/06/2020 at 11:10:14
As for Pickford, I'm not interested in anything he says. It's about him getting his head right when he's on the pitch. That'll speak louder to me.
59 Posted 07/06/2020 at 11:36:52
60 Posted 07/06/2020 at 11:43:54
One of the main problems in this country is the popular press who seem to have a massive influence over the unquestioning British public. It is beyond me how anyone can believe anything that is printed in them but they do.
61 Posted 07/06/2020 at 11:54:47
That being the case, his recent performances reflect his rhetoric perfectly... Both are questionable. Yeh, some good saves but also some howlers. That makes him pretty average.
Carlo is gonna start building his own team soon; has Pickford done enough to retain his position really?
62 Posted 07/06/2020 at 12:20:00
You make a very valid point about our national press, many of these papers, largely led by the Mail and Express, have spread racist ideas for years unchecked.
You only have to go back to the recent Brexit vote when voters were asked about why they voted for Brexit, a large majority said immigration. Yet this was a country with one of the lowest unemployment records, so why did people think immigration was a worry? Because the Mail and the Express were spouting about 10s of thousands of Romanians flooding into the country, to take English jobs.
Yet, lo and behold, this government is now flying Romanians into the country to help farmers with their harvesting.
The BAME group of people have done a lot for this country, you only have to look at the amount of people from this group who work in the NHS and care homes. Despite being more likely to get the virus than other groups, these in many cases low-paid workers still turn up, day-in & day-out, and put their lives at risk.
The problem is most of the mainstream papers are owned by some of the most despicable people on the planet, yet they print lies, day-in & day-out, so much so that Wikipedia refuse to print anything the Mail writes because of their inaccurate stories. Yet many who read these papers believe what they read.
I would hope that racism no longer exists after the events of the last 4/5 months but sadly it will. Maybe not as openly as it did before but it will still happen. You only have to go back a couple of years when an inquiry found the Met Police was institutionally racist; you would have to be stupid to think that has been eradicated over the past few years.
63 Posted 07/06/2020 at 12:38:53
64 Posted 07/06/2020 at 12:42:54
A great and graceful post, Kenny.
65 Posted 07/06/2020 at 13:08:28
66 Posted 07/06/2020 at 13:39:06
As a 'live and let live' individual, I find it a sad indictment of mankind that it takes the death of someone to bring home the failings of society.
For some years, I have been Santa at our local primary school, and at one time I was a School Governor, but ailments put an end to that. I still carry out my Santa commitments, however. It's a pleasure to see kiddies of many nationalities and shades of skin playing happily together.
I expressed the view that, later in life, some would become bigots, thieves, and other unpleasant characters. I firmly believe that the main cause of these failings begins at home, and that the behaviour and intolerance rests with the parents & guardians.
If you live locally, Kenny, I would love to share a bottle of Guinness at the next get-together at the Excelsior, if God spares me.
67 Posted 07/06/2020 at 17:10:23
Do you know that IQ is a largely irrelevant consideration as mostly 68% fall into the average range? So IQ is relative. Is your IQ in the top 16%?
As for everybody else, Everton have to believe in themselves. We do have the ability to beat Liverpool if we take our chances. We will get chances.
Also, Pickford is confident and we need more in our Everton team like him. It is psychology in that we don't believe psychology-wise that we can beat the Red Shite. Look how close we came to that when Klopp was running on the pitch with relief. Everyone shits the bed, even Barca did at Anfield, even though they hammered them at their own ground.
We need a win at Goodison. Anfield is different.
69 Posted 07/06/2020 at 17:28:37
You just go fight that fight. This fight is about racism.
“I believe that it's more often than not used as a term of denigration by a certain persuasion toward a certain persuasion.â€
If I knew what that meant, I might comment on it.
70 Posted 07/06/2020 at 18:02:06
I'm probably on my own but I'd rather still have Joel Robles. Jordan costs us way too many points.
71 Posted 07/06/2020 at 18:52:44
The Everton family looks after all, regardless of colour, race and creed.
If, and likely some time next year or the year after, Covid-19 depending, hopefully there will be a TW get-together and hopefully we can all endeavour to meet up and toast and talk all matters Everton.
72 Posted 07/06/2020 at 19:00:54
I think the priority has to be central midfield; if we are to spend, then it has to be in the middle of the park.
So another season of this clown it is, I'm afraid.
73 Posted 07/06/2020 at 19:17:37
74 Posted 07/06/2020 at 19:17:40
Tony #64, I was not aware that had happened in the past at Goodison. Was it widespread in the league at that time?
I know Chelsea has a long history of supporter anti-Semitism that still rears up (there was a video posted last fall of their fans in Lille chanting about "Yids" and singing the Martin Chivers song), but has bigotry varied from club to club over the years in your opinion?
Kenny, do you have a comment on that?
75 Posted 07/06/2020 at 19:21:02
Glad to see it was your predictive text on your first post. Was havin' a job to read it. ;-)
But, in response, my post was not criticising players for having belief. I think it is fairly obvious that the lad is no rocket scientist from the way he speaks and expresses himself.
I have no objection whatsoever to players having belief in themselves and in their teammates. In fact, I would say that is a prerequisite for being a decent player or team. However, there is a difference between belief or confidence and complete arrogance.
I agree that it would be pointless running out onto the pitch unless you believed you can compete and win. However, there are ways of saying that, without bringing pressure on your team, in the way that Pickford has with his statements. So, I agree with you completely about having belief and confidence or a winning mentality. But for me, arrogance is a hindrance to improvement.
Pickford's stats over the last few seasons have been a downward trend, which may or may not back up what I am saying, depending on how you read stats. But he has not eradicated stupid mistakes from his game, despite playing almost every game. He seems to have learned nothing.
I say all this because I did believe we had bought an outstanding keeper. He has disappointed me more each season, as I cannot see any improvement. I hope that clarifies what I tried to express in my first post.
On a more important theme...
Kenny at #40. Great post.
I recall a time at Goodison when a guy behind me began to shout racist insults at a black winger from the opposition. I stood up and shouted at him to cut it out. He then apologised to me for swearing!!??? So he thought it was okay to be racist, but not swear.
I can't repeat on here what I did shout back at him (I'm no lady!) but it just shows that racists are ignorant beyond my comprehension and probably yours. I hope for the day when people just see black as one of the colours we come in.
I also live for the day when leaders of the free world have the grace, statesmanship and sincerity of Obama, and the integrity, bravery, and just pure class of Nelson Mandela. The World would be a better place.
My parents were both racist (not overtly), but it was there. I am absolutely not racist and care not a jot what colour people are. I hope that gives you some hope that, just because one generation are racist, the kids don't necessarily follow.
I hope that the experiences for you and your family at Goodison are now enjoyable. (Well... apart from the frustrating footy we have all endured during the past seasons!!)
Sometimes it takes a post like yours to make us do more. I promise to be more vocal if I hear racism anywhere around me.
Keep the Blue Faith, Kenny.
COYB / BLM
76 Posted 07/06/2020 at 19:31:29
There were not many, if any, clubs who were free of that sort of bigotry in the 70s and 80s. Players like Clyde Best of West Ham and, before him, Albert Johanneson of Leeds were routinely abused. The advent of Cunningham, Regis and Bateson at WBA was a bit of a turning point but the road is long.
The sad story of Johanneson is worth looking up.
77 Posted 07/06/2020 at 19:35:06
78 Posted 07/06/2020 at 19:41:36
Not a minority but just about the entire Park End and Street End would sing along: 'There's a black twat on the pitch, na na na na na' (to the tune of Brown Girl in the Ring) or 'Nigger, Nigger, Nigger, oi oi oi' (Think Aussie, Aussie, Aussie' etc.) And much monkey grunting long before John Barnes. I once remember being in the Park End watching a black Evertonian joining in.
It was, quite literally Mike, embedded. These were years when national TV casually produced 'Love thy neighbour' and Alf Garnett.
Not many thought in terms of racism as a cultural 'issue' as it was so much part of terrace culture.
Thankfully, it would not be long before the Anti-Nazi League came along and Rock Against Racism and The Clash and their like and support had a big hand in this. And I genuinely believe that this extensive singing, writing, marching, and camaraderie had significant impacts on some, like me, 20ish, designer gear!
Would really learn from hearing of others about whether or not I am sort of accurate in what I remember and say.
Keep beating that disease MG and good thoughts to you and your wife (any change?).
79 Posted 07/06/2020 at 20:25:38
It went, "The Stretford End, is always full, the Stretford End is always full. Full of wogs, full of Jews, full of niggers, the Stretford End is always full!"
Shameful of course (and I apologise if the raw truth offends anyone) but the sad fact is that racism still needs to be eradicated, the sooner the better.
80 Posted 07/06/2020 at 21:52:42
I agree that the term 'racism' probably wasn't used by the general population during the period you mention, we probably used 'prejudiced' instead, but it meant the same thing.
According to this link:
The Oxford English Dictionary's first recorded utterance of the word racism was by a man named Richard Henry Pratt in 1902. Pratt was railing against the evils of racial segregation.
Segregating any class or race of people apart from the rest of the people kills the progress of the segregated people or makes their growth very slow. Association of races and classes is necessary to destroy racism and classism.
Whatever term is used to describe it, the behaviour associated with it, can be eradicated, if we all take individual responsibility for what we say and how we act towards each other.
81 Posted 07/06/2020 at 22:29:23
Tony #76, I did look him up. Sad story indeed, although his memory now is apparently honored at Leeds.
82 Posted 08/06/2020 at 00:19:33
Sending all the good, positive vibes, energies to our boys, COYB NSNO.
83 Posted 08/06/2020 at 00:42:35
Pickford being the classic British "hero to zero in less than 5 minutes" type of a player.
Top class save whilst 1 on 1 followed by a really poor kick, pass or throw.
Celebrate when we win, that's after the final whistle.
84 Posted 08/06/2020 at 11:12:39
And for those who've said â€˜well done' for standing by the club well it never crossed my mind to stop going because of a few idiots.
Thanks again for the positive posts.
85 Posted 08/06/2020 at 19:43:47
I will quote you here, ref Pickford: "...fairly obvious that the lad is no rocket scientist from the way he speaks and expresses himself."
Intelligence is largely a social construction given 68% of the population fall within the average range, which is to say the average population on the Bell Curve falls within 80-120 Full Scale Intelligent Quotient (hereafter, 'FSIQ'). You make the assumption that intelligence and or IQ is commensurate with 'speaking'. Speaking and or writing articulate is more likely a subjective consideration inter alia, the person's background.
Intelligence and or IQ has various forms but is in my view incredibly subjective. If a person or employee were to say to his employer 'I am intelligent', the same employer is likely to believe that intelligence is not a prerequisite but making him profit is. In other words, the employer would be the judge of what in his view are the prerequisites or criteria for intelligence.
One could analyse how people use words in sentence construction, or the rules of grammar. A person is more likely to be articulate if happenstance they were to have completed at least a level 6 qualification at university. The exception is private education at prep school for Oxbridge.
In any event, intelligence perhaps should be the ability to have an inherent critical mind. I believe IQ in terms of the top 16% at the least is more about capitalism and efficiency and not intelligence per se. IQ is correlated with intelligence based on a sample size of 100,000.
86 Posted 08/06/2020 at 19:50:36
87 Posted 08/06/2020 at 20:15:07
Race and or colour of skin is an illusion. It creates jobs for the new generation of professionals, the lawyers etc. It was the eugenic elites who were trying to convince the social classes below middle classes that they were "not fit for the survival of life". These same used IQ tests to convince the poor they were not 'fit for the survival of life'.
The IQ test was based on what the elites were good at. Hence those others would inevitably not score high if they were not educated (ie, social capital). The elites also used further propaganda by way of the Bell Curve from which the black communities were also said to have below-average intelligence, falling within the lowest 16% of the FSIQ (as above).
From that day to this current day, society has been organised in a certain way, which is probably why there is segregation in society in terms of education and employment. The elite education institutions are examination factories because society evolved into a knowledge society.
The only reason people have access to education is because it benefits the economy. The modern word is 'diversity', which in modern economy means women, the disabled and black people can go to university... as long as they pay themselves. Student loans create an economy for the education professionals. Therefore now is it discrimination to treat the black communities in a degrading way.
It is the same with women's rights and disabled persons' rights. Ask a person in the family court situation, where that is also a place to keep professionals in jobs, if there are rights and discriminatory treatment? The answer is a resounding No.
The UK and the USA would not be the strong economies they are today without slavery. Now the economies have developed capitalism can create rights. As C B McPherson says, first comes the markets then liberty, (paraphrasing). Normality is just the economy and modern living, But what is life? Everything is an illusion... as is football... an opiate for the masses, as Marx would say... to keep people busy, occupied.
90 Posted 08/06/2020 at 00:04:10
#40 great post, mate.
Hope things improve generally.
91 Posted 09/06/2020 at 10:18:53
92 Posted 09/06/2020 at 11:41:43
Get us to agree with them, or just make it impossible for us to understand the illusion maybe?
93 Posted 09/06/2020 at 12:18:48
Quite right, 'racism' didn't exist as a word in those days. The word used in those days was 'racialism', I seem to recall.
94 Posted 09/06/2020 at 12:34:17
95 Posted 09/06/2020 at 15:57:19
96 Posted 09/06/2020 at 17:17:41
Paul #78, Hi good to see you post on here. Hope you and yours are well in these crazy times.
On the BLM protests, I hope the younger generation, no matter colour creed or nationality, do not let the moment fade away without real change happening.
Cosmetic change by governments will only makes things worse in the long run. Hopefully we will see proper change where the authorities get the message “our lives matterâ€. The political classes have long lost the working class and never had an understanding of the disenfranchised or the unemployed.
98 Posted 09/06/2020 at 19:02:12
Of course we can give them a game, but we are not as good as them unfortunately, so it's a wing and a prayer at best.
99 Posted 10/06/2020 at 10:19:16
When two mayors, one a powerful player from London, Sadiq Khan, and the other the one for Bristol, where a statue of important historical legacy is criminally damaged and rolled into the dock's water, support removing statues of historical legacy, the first thing to come to mind is wow, a tad liberal. That one is Asian and the other is black â€“ now that is not just liberal that is alarming. This is a problem as a country is entitled to its historical legacy. This is the power of the media and psychology.
I am not a tory or liberal, just working class. I've always supported Labour. I look at the situation as someone with a law, sociology and psychology background. I am not racist. I am just quite educated and a bit of a thinker. 86% of people identifying as white citizens, 7.5% Asian, and about 3.5% black in the 2011 consensus. I think this a type of terrorism as the UK had become paradise for the brain-washed manic liberals.
100 Posted 10/06/2020 at 10:50:46
I'm certain slavery still exists, as Dylan said, we've all got to serve somebody, and it was only the other week on these pages that Jay Wood, told us about the Brazilian maid, who caught and died from Covid, probably because her boss never told her that she had the virus.
“Every life mattersâ€, and it's why I've got a bit of trouble getting behind this movement if I'm being honest, because I'm certain racism exists right across the globe, and also within every creed and colour, that also exists within the human race.
101 Posted 10/06/2020 at 17:11:00
Imagine being a police officer in the USA where many have guns, apparently 25%. It was unlawful killing, not murder. Murder requires intention.
Listening to TalkSport they want black managers etc. Fine. Be good at what you do. Not get the job because of the colour of your skin. If there is discrimination in football jobs, that needs to change. But I believe if you're good enough for the job, be given every chance. Problem is even Everton like Italian or Spanish profiles.
102 Posted 10/06/2020 at 17:16:35
103 Posted 10/06/2020 at 17:28:06
While I agree with your overall sentiment and believe the motto should be ALL lives matter, I cannot agree that this wasn't murder. The cop and the black dude apparently worked together as bouncers previously and did not get on so there was definitely intent there and anybody with an ounce of common-sense knows that, if you kneel on somebody's neck for just on 9 minutes while they are screaming they can't breathe, it has to be murder and evil too..
In the '60s, police brutality in Liverpool was prevalent and still in some forces today there is an anti-scouse attitude so I do believe there is an overreaction to the "black" situation. There is a lack of tolerance and understanding in many people and it's not just the culture that needs to be looked at.
104 Posted 10/06/2020 at 17:54:07
PF #78, appreciate that additional background. I delayed my reply because I wanted to look through the Everton books I've collected to see if any of them mentioned that. They didn't, so I'm fascinated.
No change in my wife's situation, unfortunately. Thanks for asking.
105 Posted 10/06/2020 at 21:45:37
Intent is required because murder is obviously a very serious offence. Kneeling on someone's neck could be actus reus, ie, guilty act for murder.
I did not know they were bouncers together and didn't get on. Having a grudge against someone is not intent, that is motive.
Police do not go work to murder someone. Intention is the mental element of the unlawful killing and must be present for a murder offence. This is called mens rea or guilty mind. It requires causation too.
Was there a plan to murder him? If so, was it just one person or more? If so, that is conspiracy. If not, for the others, it is aid and abetting. It requires procure, counselling or assisting to convict the others of murder, aiding and abetting.
The USA prosecutor will start with a presumption of murder for the main cop and consider whether there was any intention. There is a criminal defence of loss of control. Also, the police handbook says you can kneel on the neck.
Was it temporary insanity... he looked like he was stuck in a situation and could not stop himself. Did he believe, whether unreasonably or not, that the black guy was lying when he said he couldn't breathe?
I believe they charged main officer with 3rd degree manslaughter then increased to 2nd degree.
An offence of murder therefore is not so straight-forward as the police have constitutional rights too, or due process and right to fair hearing, broadly. Otherwise, it might well be the state with lethal injection the got the murder offence.
106 Posted 11/06/2020 at 12:43:18
Add Your Comments
In order to post a comment, you need to be logged in as a registered user of the site.
Or Sign up as a ToffeeWeb Member — it's free, takes just a few minutes and will allow you to post your comments on articles and Talking Points submissions across the site.