Pickford says Everton can win Goodison derby

Saturday, 6 June, 2020 101comments  |  Jump to last

Jordan Pickford believes Everton “have the ability in the squad” to beat Liverpool when they meet in the Merseyside derby at Goodison Park on Sunday 21 June.

“We want to win every game we play and any sort of derby match is massive for the fans and for players,” Pickford told Sky Sports News.

“We want to show how good we can be and we have an opportunity to beat them. We know they are a good side, they are top of the league. We just want to do our best and try to beat them.

“We know we have the ability in the squad to beat them. We just want to do it for ourselves and our fans.”

It's a brave claim to make after Everton's painful derby experiences in recent years, with Liverpool riding high as runaway leaders of the Premier League.

But professional footballers have to believe in one thing — their ability, and this derby will be like no other before it, with fans barred from attending under current coronavirus restrictions, and the rules of the game changed as a consequence after the lockdown.

“Obviously it's been difficult but it's nice to spend time with your family and get a nice big break,” Pickford added.

“I've not had a break from football since I was probably a 16-year-old — I've been in the England set-up since then — so it's nice for my mind and body to have a reset.

“We're getting ready to go again but it's been a nice eight or nine weeks off, in the sense of giving your body time to relax.”

Pickford himself will forever be associated with the most horrible goalkeeping gaffe ever seen in a Merseyside derby when he gifted the winning goal to Everton nemesis Origi in the last minute of added time in the Anfield game in December 2018.

But a win two weeks tomorrow would indeed go a long way to expunging such memories and setting Everton on a new track in a fixture that has become a seasonal nightmare for many Blues fans.

 

Reader Comments (101)

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Colin Glassar
1 Posted 06/06/2020 at 10:48:43
We’ll probably get a hiding now. I wish players would just keep their traps shut sometimes.
Johnny Rainford
2 Posted 06/06/2020 at 10:52:11
Yeh, talk about adding unnecessary pressure. Concentrate on your own performance, eh, Jordan.. no last-minute howlers eh. 😏

That said... COYB 👍

Jerome Shields
3 Posted 06/06/2020 at 11:06:58
Looks like a wheel-out job. Last thing we need is Pickford a target for wind-ups.
Sam Hoare
4 Posted 06/06/2020 at 11:14:02
Statistically, Jordan is one of the worst keepers in the Premier League this season. Kept off the bottom only by Kepa. His save ratio has got worse every year since joining us. He has serious work to do if he wants to retain his England and possibly even his Everton place.
Martin Berry
5 Posted 06/06/2020 at 11:14:48
I am sure Liverpool will be as fit as fleas to try and get the title over the line asap, it's inevitable they will win it – but not at Goodison!

We need to keep their full-backs quiet and, with our forward line, we always have a chance. Bring it on!

Brian Harrison
6 Posted 06/06/2020 at 11:26:27
Without the backing of the crowd, I can only see them running out easy winners. Especially if victory gives them the title. The problem is, with no crowds, irrespective where its played, this won't feel like a home game and we don't have a great record playing anybody away from Goodison.
Johnny Rainford
7 Posted 06/06/2020 at 11:43:57
Not sure boys. If the senior players decide to turn up, we could certainly make a game of it.

However, I suspect some of them (you know who you are) probably know they're on their way out soon and will probably just be going through their contractual obligations... 😉😏

Jay Woods
8 Posted 06/06/2020 at 12:01:35
Let's hope he remembers not to smear his gloves in KY Jelly or Vaseline this time.
Danny ONeill
9 Posted 06/06/2020 at 12:05:45
As long as players keep their heads, stay focussed and don't have a rush of blood to the head causing a brain fart, hey, Jordan?
Christy Ring
10 Posted 06/06/2020 at 12:09:05
Biggest worry for me is our toothless midfield. If Mina wasn't injured, Holgate would have been an excellent option as a defensive midfielder. Sigurdsson and Iwobi can't tackle, and Delph sadly is our only option, with Schneiderlin, best of our weak options, injured. A couple of midfielders has to be Ancelotti's No 1 target this summer.
Tony Twist
11 Posted 06/06/2020 at 12:14:02
He's a good back-up goalkeeper. We need a reliable keeper, big in stature, reserved but very confident. Then, I think we will see the whole defence and the defensive ability of the side improve. I don't think the players in front of him trust him on crosses – and it seems like he is getting worse with age, not better.
Paul Birmingham
12 Posted 06/06/2020 at 12:22:29
Let's hope his performance on the pitch in this game is as good as his words.

Spouting off before any game doesn't help Everton's plight – no more so than vs the RS.

I'd like to see how the Everton midfield and defence is going to compete and tackle the RS aggressively, for 98 minutes.

It's been a long time off for both squads but in terms of fitness we always seem knackered after 25 minutes and then the rest of the game is a struggle to keep any momentum.

Hopefully we will be pleasantly surprised.

Michael Lynch
14 Posted 06/06/2020 at 12:54:57
The passion of the crowd at Goodison during last season's nil-nil draw to deny them the title was like a twelfth man for us. Without that, I think we have absolutely no chance of getting anything from this derby. My only hope is that it's not too humiliating, but I fear it will be.

In some ways, I'm not arsed if they win the title against us – there'll be no fans there to celebrate with, and they'd probably prefer to clinch it at Anfield. It's a foregone conclusion that they'll win it within a couple of games of the restart anyway, so the sooner the better. Get it over with.

Tom Bowers
15 Posted 06/06/2020 at 13:05:10
Well of course Everton can win it, as we know they can win any game on the day – but so can every other team win every game on any given day.

The reality, of course, is the all round quality that is needed to beat a team like RS when they are having such a super season and Everton generally have been very disappointing. Quite honestly, I wish the season was done with so we can all get back to the real game with crowds before the year is out, if that is possible.

Yes, it would be nice to win this one – if for no other reason it's the RS and of course it would be the only real highlight of the season – but the likelihood is a draw at best.

Pat Kelly
16 Posted 06/06/2020 at 13:57:24
Here we go again. At least up to now we've had a break from these ridiculous comments from players.
James Flynn
17 Posted 06/06/2020 at 14:51:00
He's bound to speak as he did. We will be hearing the same from others of his teammates who get in front of a mike before the game.

And if we're going anywhere with Carlo, we need a better keeper than Pickford. He's just not that good. 26 now, he's been a keeper forever and I'm accepting that what we're seeing is all we're going to get.

Karen Mason
18 Posted 06/06/2020 at 15:20:48
Sadly for me, Pickford's low IQ & enormous ego are a bad combination. I concede that he has made some great saves, but equally has made some howlers. That he is so arrogant will prevent him from improving over time as many of the best keepers do.

I fear that he thinks he is already great & therefore probably doesn't take advice or coaching very well – hence no improvement. As some posters have mentioned over time, perhaps his lack of consistency is one of the key things in our defensive frailty?

Mick Conalty
19 Posted 06/06/2020 at 15:22:45
Pickford, as the saying goes, those that can, do. Those that can't just talk about it.

You and other players have droned on about the talent and quality in the squad since the beginning of this abysmal season.

We are fed up with all the bullshit. Our position in the Premier League shows how much talent we have, average at best.

Do you think we have forgotten the mauling we got at Chelsea prior to the shutdown?

Please, just do your talking on the pitch.

Patrick McFarlane
20 Posted 06/06/2020 at 15:32:19
Pickford is hardly the best keeper Everton have had but he isn't the worst either, he may well be over confident in his own abiltiy but aren't all keepers made that way? He's got another 18 months to prove himself as far as I'm concerned and if he's as poor as many seem to think he is, we'll be stuck with him anyway as no 'major' club would touch him.

I can't give an opinion on his character because I've never met him, but I'd be surprised if he's the prat that some seem to think he is. As long as he's picked for Everton, he'll get my support; if Carlo believes he can replace him with better, then that's okay too.

As for the soundbites, you'd think that as football fans we'd be well used to them and would understand that the media has to be fed, it's what they pay for. Was Jordan supposed to say 'Our next opponents are unbeatable and we're lucky to be on the same pitch as them'?

Brian Murray
21 Posted 06/06/2020 at 15:40:33
He struts around as if he's Conor McGregor. Which we can all live with if he can focus and stop costing us points at least once a month. Top goalies maybe make one mistake in a calendar year that leads to a goal. At a minimum, we need a serious Number Two to push him. Unlike Tim Howard, whose last few years where wayward, but again we had no choices.
Mike Gaynes
22 Posted 06/06/2020 at 16:03:20
"Was Jordan supposed to say 'Our next opponents are unbeatable and we're lucky to be on the same pitch as them'?"

Apparently so, Patrick. Geez, the defeatism here runs deep.

Give it a rest, folks. It was a perfectly appropriate answer.

Alan J Thompson
23 Posted 06/06/2020 at 16:14:41
Quite honestly, I think Pickford is a good a keeper as we can get and, if anybody needs replacing, it is the bloke who thought it was some sort of good idea to wheel out Pickford to comment on what we should or could do and not do in a derby.

Next, he'll be including Sandy Brown's header in the list of all-time great derby goals.

Martin Berry
24 Posted 06/06/2020 at 16:50:03
Okay, maybe Jordan is giving us the kiss of death but all this negativity about the lad, he is England's Number One, for Christ's sake! He plays for Everton! And were still moaning.

The Columbia World Cup game has long gone to some.

Eddie Dunn
25 Posted 06/06/2020 at 16:51:51
There will be plenty more soundbites before the game is played. Just as we may get hammered, we might just catch them cold, so let's hope for the best.

It would be ironic if we beat them for the first time in ages, and none of us were there!

Joe McMahon
26 Posted 06/06/2020 at 18:20:05
Correct, Colin, he should keep his trap shut. Jordan's performances against Liverpool have been awful and embarrassing. Last-minute defeats galore.
John Keating
27 Posted 06/06/2020 at 18:30:01
We would have a chance if we had the horn, Z-Cars and the crowd behind us for 90-odd minutes. Without that and the wasters like Pickford et al, it will be situation normal.

It's not a Pickford rallying cry we need but a psychiatrist and a shed-full of luck!

Michael Barrett
28 Posted 06/06/2020 at 18:55:08
We will get twatted and you all know it.

"Catch them cold"? FFS — behave yourself.

Brian Williams
29 Posted 06/06/2020 at 18:55:10
I think we'd only "have the horn" if we won, John. 😂😂😂
Tony Everan
30 Posted 06/06/2020 at 19:06:49
We might have a squeak if Jordan keeps away from the butter.
Dan Nulty
31 Posted 06/06/2020 at 19:08:33
Bring it on. This is exactly the type of attitude we need. We can beat them. Yeah, he has his issues but I really like his belief. I wish more Evertonians and our staff and players exuded this. We can't compete with the top 4 of we don't believe we can.
Eric Paul
32 Posted 06/06/2020 at 19:22:58
Fuck... catch em cold, catch em high!
Lenny Kingman
33 Posted 06/06/2020 at 20:07:57
Nothing that happens on that night matters. And what if it did?
Jay Harris
34 Posted 06/06/2020 at 20:10:35
It used to be a derby was never certain but we have buckled in recent years.

I am looking forward to our dismal run coming to an end and taking 3 points off the bastards.

Don't know why but I just feel we will win this one despite the lack of midfield.

Jim Bennings
35 Posted 06/06/2020 at 20:30:08
To be honest, with all that's happening this year since early March, it just feels impossible to get "up" for any football match now really, doesn't it?

The derby match once got the juices flowing, but I'm going back 15 years now or longer since I could be that excited about derby games, such has been our pathetic record in this fixture.

With the current climate we live in, I just can't feel excited about football right now, not when I'm living my everyday life like something from a Sci-Fi film.

If it actually gets played, and we win it, then great. Maybe if and when this horrible pandemic is brought under control, years down the line, I might look in the record books and take some pride in beating those red bastards.

But right now it's just a crazy game fitted in at a crazy time of year in a completely tits up society that, in the space of three months, has disappeared up its own arse thanks to poor governmental advice and selfish gobshite bellend people.

Paul Birmingham
36 Posted 06/06/2020 at 21:45:31
Jim, @35, well presented, and a good summary of the lie of the land today.

The North-West sadly looks like it's facing a second spike... Looks like this will become a way of life for the foreseeable future.

Onwards Evertonians and all stay safe and well.

Danny ONeill
37 Posted 06/06/2020 at 23:25:06
Agree with most on here. He isn't the worst keeper we've had; in fact he's very good. But he isn't the best either. Being England Number 1 isn't necessarily a mark as England hasn't had a top keeper for many decades. I think he's as capable as Tim Howard; again, a good enough keeper to be considered by Alex Ferguson but not quite up to the top, top levels expected.

Karen sums it up quite brutally but honestly. His low IQ and big ego are a dangerous combination and possibly explain his tendency to have a rush of blood and make rash decisions. like patting it into the net at Anfield when he could have watched it over or at least parried it out for a corner. The guy needs to calm down as his temperament massively impacts his decision-making.

Mark Andersson
38 Posted 06/06/2020 at 00:05:39
Of course we could win it... but we won't.

We do not have the quality or mental strength to beat teams like Liverpool.

Carlo needs to replace more than half the squad which will cost more than the stadium build.

Kase Chow
39 Posted 07/06/2020 at 00:19:55
Glad Pickford believes we can win it.

I don't.

Kenny Smith
40 Posted 07/06/2020 at 01:39:02
Not really derby-related but as a black Evertonian, I'm immensely proud of our club and the fans for the positive changes we've made over the years.

I've gone to Goodison since 1982 and had to endure plenty of shite including the John Barnes banana fiasco, Les Ferdinand for QPR (5-2) and the Arsenal game that ended with the club making a token effort to calm things with a 1-inch piece in the programme and a tannoy announcement, plus a load of other shite over the years home and away. I've never risen to anything over the years despite very nearly losing it at Benfica away (you know who you are!) and in the Torch Pub at Wembley for the Liverpool Semi (you definitely know who you are!).

I've taken ages to write this, gone back and deleted bits and put other bits in but ultimately I THANK YOU for standing up for what's right, changing the atmosphere, making It possible for my kids and others to watch Everton without having to endure the shite I had to. COYB

Derek Thomas
41 Posted 07/06/2020 at 01:49:59
Less talk, more do.
Sean Kelly
42 Posted 07/06/2020 at 02:02:29
Jim Bennings, well said. Honest and true. Sadly these virtues are sadly lacking in all leadership wherever we live.

As for Pickford... Who cares?

Steve Brown
43 Posted 07/06/2020 at 02:54:01
Kenny @40, I for one really appreciate you sharing your experiences. It is shameful that you experienced racism from your own supporters when following the Blues. The club and supporters have made massive efforts to eradicate this disgusting curse and it is great that your family can now enjoy going to the game in peace. Thanks for speaking up.
Mike Gaynes
44 Posted 07/06/2020 at 03:14:56
Kenny #40, your perspective is highly valued. Thank you for posting.
Sam Hoare
45 Posted 07/06/2020 at 07:07:35
Kenny @40; thank you for sharing. I'm sorry for what you have been subjected to and hope that such shameful behaviour is entirely a thing of the past. I've seen some social media posts from Everton fans that have enraged me this week on the current BLM issues but they seem to have been strongly condemned by the vast majority of blues. Hopefully your kids will not experience what you have.
Darren Hind
46 Posted 07/06/2020 at 07:29:35
Kenny

Your post shames me.

My mam would turn in her grave if she thought I was guilty of racism and, up until recently I believed she would have been proud of me, but having listened to numerous black men and women this week, I'm not so sure. The fact is – while I know I have inherited my mothers disgust of racism – I realise that I, personally, have contributed very little towards the battle to stamp it out.

I remember the incidents you talk about (not your personal ones of course). They were very real. The trouble is, too many of us did not stand up. It's simply not enough to shake your head.

As you rightly point out, we have taken huge strides to eradicate this vile behaviour, but you only have to scan Goodison on any given match day to see how few and far between black faces are, to realise that we, more than most clubs, still have a long way to go.

Thank you for your post, Kenny.

Mike Kehoe
47 Posted 07/06/2020 at 07:56:47
Sadly, the media relentlessly pursues the thoughts and opinions of footballers and present them as important and necessary. I'm sure I'm not their target audience as I couldn't give a fuck what Declan Rice likes to listen to while playing Fifa or the hilarious japes of James Madison.

Pickford is bang average, like Yobo was described years ago: a Rolls-Royce of a player with Lada moments. Pickford will be obliged to respond and his honest may have been to say ‘I have shit the bed big time here loads of times and expect to be back at Sunderland soon as'. While I would appreciate such sentiments, I don't think his agent would approve.

I don't think the match will go ahead as the R is rising.

Andrew Clare
48 Posted 07/06/2020 at 08:15:29
I'm with you all the way, Kenny. It saddens me that we are still living in a world where racism exists.
Robert Tressell
49 Posted 07/06/2020 at 08:32:10
Thank you for writing your piece, Kenny. There's a lot of people who support you but we've been too quiet. We've all got a duty to call it out when we see it (or read it) and you've reminded me how serious that duty is. Good man.
Tony Everan
50 Posted 07/06/2020 at 09:15:14
Kenny 40,

An important post, thank you for sharing it. Times have changed for the better and there is still a long journey ahead. With racism, in all its forms, there is no room for complacency. It is like a fire that needs continually beating down.

I think Everton as a club have done relatively well to keep on top of it. The culture at our club is now rooted in inclusivity. I am proud of the club for embracing that.

The fans too, with the likes of the anti-racist banner supporting Moise Kean on his arrival showing our solidarity against racism. We are one great family from many diverse backgrounds, forever bound by our love for Everton Football Club.

Lots of love and respect to you and your family from this Everton supporter.

Martin Mason
51 Posted 07/06/2020 at 09:16:49
We also have to fight against the use of the word 'racism' where patently none exists. I believe that it's more often than not used as a term of denigration by a certain persuasion toward a certain persuasion.
Kevin Prytherch
52 Posted 07/06/2020 at 09:17:30
Kenny 40 – honest question – how bad is it these days?

The reason I ask, is because I live in a town with massive social divides and massive racial tensions; however, it is between the Asian population and the White population (although there are increasing racial tensions between White and Romanian populations). This racial tension is prevalent on both sides though, it's not just the White population being racist towards the Asian population.

However, while I fully respect that things were massively different in the past, there are currently minimal tensions between the White population and the Black and Polish (who also have a strong presence) population.

I know there are certain parts of the country where it is different, but, in my experiences and where I live, there is very little racial tension between the white and black population these days. This is a massive testament to the country as a whole because, like you said, Kenny, 30-40 years ago it was bad.

I'd appreciate your thoughts as I am only speaking from my particular part of the country and not the country as a whole.

Tony Abrahams
53 Posted 07/06/2020 at 09:54:14
You must have put up with a lot of shite, Kenny, fair play to you mate, because this city always had a massive undercurrent of racism, especially in the north end of the city, where both our clubs originate from.

I'm glad it's changed, and it wouldn't surprise me if Liverpool was now one of the least racist places in the country, although that's not to say it's still not under the surface within certain places.

Look at the Liverpool fans coming back from a game in Paris, early last season, and they found two asylum seekers on their coach. They kept them safe, had a laugh with them, and dropped them off near London, if I'm not mistaken, and I'm not sure this would have happened with fans from any other part of the country?

Maybe because they felt that snitching is worse than anything but I doubt it. I'm sure it was because they looked at these people with humanity, which is the only way racism will ever be truly eradicated!

Dave Abrahams
54 Posted 07/06/2020 at 10:00:11
Kenny (40), thank you for your post. Sorry you had to endure the incidents you describe. If it's any consolation, you were insulted by very ignorant people who wouldn't feel any shame in how they behaved.

Things are better (slightly) now, than they were in the past, but there is still a long way to go and we stop looking at the colour and race of people rather than their personalities. Thanks again for your post.

Kenny Smith
55 Posted 07/06/2020 at 10:09:21
Kevin @ 52. I was only talking about my experience of going the game. I’m not particularly a ‘right on’ person so don’t want to get into the whole social differences debate. The forum’s about football but I just wanted to highlight that the club and the fans are a credit to our city and the change has been enormous over the years.
Ray Robinson
56 Posted 07/06/2020 at 10:36:05
Kenny, I can only begin to understand the shit you have had to put up with over the years at football grounds and elsewhere. I'm glad that you stuck by the club and hope that you and your kids don't have to endure any more sick abuse.

The atmosphere at Goodison has definitely changed for the better over the years and I'm confident that any potential racial abusers these days would be rounded on by the majority rather than endured by those too scared to say anything – including me, I'm ashamed to admit.

Everton has made huge strides at inclusivity and community. I'm proud of the club for that.

Joe McMahon
57 Posted 07/06/2020 at 11:00:21
Kenny, thank you for sharing. I'm Asian myself and over the years seen and heard and seen things at football grounds including Goodison that have made my blood boil.

I remember as a kid watching MotD in the 70s and hearing the abuse that Cyril Regis, Garth Crooks et al received. Things have got better over the years, much better, but it's still there... as most definitely is Homophobia.

Paul Tran
58 Posted 07/06/2020 at 11:10:14
Kenny, thanks for sharing your post and your story. It's up to everybody to call out instances of racism when we see them, whoever is doing it. That's far more effective than the blanket labels often thrown around.

As for Pickford, I'm not interested in anything he says. It's about him getting his head right when he's on the pitch. That'll speak louder to me.

Christy Ring
59 Posted 07/06/2020 at 11:36:52
Kenny your post has brought us back to reality. I know we are still a long way off, and the abuse is still there. Until a player, and a team in the Premier League, walk off the field because of the abuse, the FA will finally have to take their head out of the sand, because they are a disgrace, and covering up their incompetence.
Andrew Clare
60 Posted 07/06/2020 at 11:43:54
It is important to talk about racism on any forum especially a football forum as it is a place where many people air their views.

One of the main problems in this country is the popular press who seem to have a massive influence over the unquestioning British public. It is beyond me how anyone can believe anything that is printed in them but they do.

Johnny Rainford
61 Posted 07/06/2020 at 11:54:47
Pretty clear the consensus on here is that Pickford should let his performances do the talking.

That being the case, his recent performances reflect his rhetoric perfectly... Both are questionable. Yeh, some good saves but also some howlers. That makes him pretty average.

Carlo is gonna start building his own team soon; has Pickford done enough to retain his position really?

Brian Harrison
62 Posted 07/06/2020 at 12:20:00
Andrew @60,

You make a very valid point about our national press, many of these papers, largely led by the Mail and Express, have spread racist ideas for years unchecked.

You only have to go back to the recent Brexit vote when voters were asked about why they voted for Brexit, a large majority said immigration. Yet this was a country with one of the lowest unemployment records, so why did people think immigration was a worry? Because the Mail and the Express were spouting about 10s of thousands of Romanians flooding into the country, to take English jobs.

Yet, lo and behold, this government is now flying Romanians into the country to help farmers with their harvesting.

The BAME group of people have done a lot for this country, you only have to look at the amount of people from this group who work in the NHS and care homes. Despite being more likely to get the virus than other groups, these in many cases low-paid workers still turn up, day-in & day-out, and put their lives at risk.

The problem is most of the mainstream papers are owned by some of the most despicable people on the planet, yet they print lies, day-in & day-out, so much so that Wikipedia refuse to print anything the Mail writes because of their inaccurate stories. Yet many who read these papers believe what they read.

I would hope that racism no longer exists after the events of the last 4/5 months but sadly it will. Maybe not as openly as it did before but it will still happen. You only have to go back a couple of years when an inquiry found the Met Police was institutionally racist; you would have to be stupid to think that has been eradicated over the past few years.

PG Malcolm
63 Posted 07/06/2020 at 12:38:53
Love you, Kenny, lad, hope to see you all soon. KTF.
Tony Hill
64 Posted 07/06/2020 at 12:42:54
Yes, I remember the "Everton are White" chants in the 80s about which I did nothing, and I have the same shame as others have expressed. It would be wonderful to see more diversity at Goodison and supporting us away. It's slow progress but it is progress nonetheless.

A great and graceful post, Kenny.

Dave Evans
65 Posted 07/06/2020 at 13:08:28
Kenny, thanks for sharing your experience. Here's to EFC families and their futures. All together now.

John McFarlane Snr
66 Posted 07/06/2020 at 13:39:06
Hi Kenny [40],

As a 'live and let live' individual, I find it a sad indictment of mankind that it takes the death of someone to bring home the failings of society.

For some years, I have been Santa at our local primary school, and at one time I was a School Governor, but ailments put an end to that. I still carry out my Santa commitments, however. It's a pleasure to see kiddies of many nationalities and shades of skin playing happily together.

I expressed the view that, later in life, some would become bigots, thieves, and other unpleasant characters. I firmly believe that the main cause of these failings begins at home, and that the behaviour and intolerance rests with the parents & guardians.

If you live locally, Kenny, I would love to share a bottle of Guinness at the next get-together at the Excelsior, if God spares me.

John Wilson
67 Posted 07/06/2020 at 17:10:23
Karen Mason. You say Pickford has a low IQ. Do you know this for a fact?

Do you know that IQ is a largely irrelevant consideration as mostly 68% fall into the average range? So IQ is relative. Is your IQ in the top 16%?

As for everybody else, Everton have to believe in themselves. We do have the ability to beat Liverpool if we take our chances. We will get chances.

Also, Pickford is confident and we need more in our Everton team like him. It is psychology in that we don't believe psychology-wise that we can beat the Red Shite. Look how close we came to that when Klopp was running on the pitch with relief. Everyone shits the bed, even Barca did at Anfield, even though they hammered them at their own ground.

We need a win at Goodison. Anfield is different.

Brent Stephens
69 Posted 07/06/2020 at 17:28:37
Martin #51 “We also have to fight against the use of the word 'racism' where patently none exists”.

You just go fight that fight. This fight is about racism.

“I believe that it's more often than not used as a term of denigration by a certain persuasion toward a certain persuasion.”

If I knew what that meant, I might comment on it.

Joe McMahon
70 Posted 07/06/2020 at 18:02:06
John @67, Pickford seems to have too many "rush of blood to the head" moments. I keep hearing he is a good shot-stopper... well, against Man Utd and Newcastle Utd recently he certainly wasn't.

I'm probably on my own but I'd rather still have Joel Robles. Jordan costs us way too many points.

Paul Birmingham
71 Posted 07/06/2020 at 18:52:44
Kenny @40, Tremendous character and guts to stick with Everton, through the decades.

The Everton family looks after all, regardless of colour, race and creed.

If, and likely some time next year or the year after, Covid-19 depending, hopefully there will be a TW get-together and hopefully we can all endeavour to meet up and toast and talk all matters Everton.

Sam Bowen
72 Posted 07/06/2020 at 19:00:54
Pickford is a plank and also the most overrated keeper in many a year. I so hoped we'd replace him this summer but can't see that happening now down to Covid-19.

I think the priority has to be central midfield; if we are to spend, then it has to be in the middle of the park.

So another season of this clown it is, I'm afraid.

Paul Jones
73 Posted 07/06/2020 at 19:17:37
Pickford sadly reminds me of David Lawson: he looked good at Huddersfield when being peppered with shots from all angles but did not have the stature or composure for the top flight.
Mike Gaynes
74 Posted 07/06/2020 at 19:17:40
Darren #46, Tony #53, Paul #71, great posts.

Tony #64, I was not aware that had happened in the past at Goodison. Was it widespread in the league at that time?

I know Chelsea has a long history of supporter anti-Semitism that still rears up (there was a video posted last fall of their fans in Lille chanting about "Yids" and singing the Martin Chivers song), but has bigotry varied from club to club over the years in your opinion?

Kenny, do you have a comment on that?

Karen Mason
75 Posted 07/06/2020 at 19:21:02
Hi John at #67 (& #68),

Glad to see it was your predictive text on your first post. Was havin' a job to read it. ;-)

But, in response, my post was not criticising players for having belief. I think it is fairly obvious that the lad is no rocket scientist from the way he speaks and expresses himself.

I have no objection whatsoever to players having belief in themselves and in their teammates. In fact, I would say that is a prerequisite for being a decent player or team. However, there is a difference between belief or confidence and complete arrogance.

I agree that it would be pointless running out onto the pitch unless you believed you can compete and win. However, there are ways of saying that, without bringing pressure on your team, in the way that Pickford has with his statements. So, I agree with you completely about having belief and confidence or a winning mentality. But for me, arrogance is a hindrance to improvement.

Pickford's stats over the last few seasons have been a downward trend, which may or may not back up what I am saying, depending on how you read stats. But he has not eradicated stupid mistakes from his game, despite playing almost every game. He seems to have learned nothing.

I say all this because I did believe we had bought an outstanding keeper. He has disappointed me more each season, as I cannot see any improvement. I hope that clarifies what I tried to express in my first post.

On a more important theme...

Kenny at #40. Great post.

I recall a time at Goodison when a guy behind me began to shout racist insults at a black winger from the opposition. I stood up and shouted at him to cut it out. He then apologised to me for swearing!!??? So he thought it was okay to be racist, but not swear.

I can't repeat on here what I did shout back at him (I'm no lady!) but it just shows that racists are ignorant beyond my comprehension and probably yours. I hope for the day when people just see black as one of the colours we come in.

I also live for the day when leaders of the free world have the grace, statesmanship and sincerity of Obama, and the integrity, bravery, and just pure class of Nelson Mandela. The World would be a better place.

My parents were both racist (not overtly), but it was there. I am absolutely not racist and care not a jot what colour people are. I hope that gives you some hope that, just because one generation are racist, the kids don't necessarily follow.

I hope that the experiences for you and your family at Goodison are now enjoyable. (Well... apart from the frustrating footy we have all endured during the past seasons!!)

Sometimes it takes a post like yours to make us do more. I promise to be more vocal if I hear racism anywhere around me.

Keep the Blue Faith, Kenny.
COYB / BLM


Tony Hill
76 Posted 07/06/2020 at 19:31:29
Mike #74, I am afraid it's true that we had a racist element which became quite vocal in the 80s. Chelsea were associated with the far right for a long time and, of course, Millwall who are still pretty obnoxious as we saw with some of their chanting in the FA Cup game last year.

There were not many, if any, clubs who were free of that sort of bigotry in the 70s and 80s. Players like Clyde Best of West Ham and, before him, Albert Johanneson of Leeds were routinely abused. The advent of Cunningham, Regis and Bateson at WBA was a bit of a turning point but the road is long.

The sad story of Johanneson is worth looking up.

Tony Hill
77 Posted 07/06/2020 at 19:35:06
That should be Batson, of course, apologies.
Paul Ferry
78 Posted 07/06/2020 at 19:41:36
Mike (74), racism was huge at Goodison in the time of my first decade there (1975 on) and it was not a 'problem' because hardly anyone saw it as a 'problem'.

Not a minority but just about the entire Park End and Street End would sing along: 'There's a black twat on the pitch, na na na na na' (to the tune of Brown Girl in the Ring) or 'Nigger, Nigger, Nigger, oi oi oi' (Think Aussie, Aussie, Aussie' etc.) And much monkey grunting long before John Barnes. I once remember being in the Park End watching a black Evertonian joining in.

It was, quite literally Mike, embedded. These were years when national TV casually produced 'Love thy neighbour' and Alf Garnett.

Not many thought in terms of racism as a cultural 'issue' as it was so much part of terrace culture.

Thankfully, it would not be long before the Anti-Nazi League came along and Rock Against Racism and The Clash and their like and support had a big hand in this. And I genuinely believe that this extensive singing, writing, marching, and camaraderie had significant impacts on some, like me, 20ish, designer gear!

Would really learn from hearing of others about whether or not I am sort of accurate in what I remember and say.

Keep beating that disease MG and good thoughts to you and your wife (any change?).

Don Alexander
79 Posted 07/06/2020 at 20:25:38
Racism as a word didn't even exist in the 60s & 70s as far as I recall. Crowd chants were regularly racist too, at Everton and every other ground I visited. Nobody ever even mentioned it, nevermind doing anything about it. I still recall one of them, used when we played Man Utd.

It went, "The Stretford End, is always full, the Stretford End is always full. Full of wogs, full of Jews, full of niggers, the Stretford End is always full!"

Shameful of course (and I apologise if the raw truth offends anyone) but the sad fact is that racism still needs to be eradicated, the sooner the better.

Patrick McFarlane
80 Posted 07/06/2020 at 21:52:42
Don #79

I agree that the term 'racism' probably wasn't used by the general population during the period you mention, we probably used 'prejudiced' instead, but it meant the same thing.

According to this link:
Pratt

The Oxford English Dictionary's first recorded utterance of the word racism was by a man named Richard Henry Pratt in 1902. Pratt was railing against the evils of racial segregation.

Segregating any class or race of people apart from the rest of the people kills the progress of the segregated people or makes their growth very slow. Association of races and classes is necessary to destroy racism and classism.

Whatever term is used to describe it, the behaviour associated with it, can be eradicated, if we all take individual responsibility for what we say and how we act towards each other.


Mike Gaynes
81 Posted 07/06/2020 at 22:29:23
"Racism" became a very widely used term on this side of the water around 1968, coinciding with the anti-war protests. Maybe things were different in England.

Tony #76, I did look him up. Sad story indeed, although his memory now is apparently honored at Leeds.

Minik Hansen
82 Posted 08/06/2020 at 00:19:33
Anything can happen. I for one am excited to see what will happen without the crowd. Sure it would've been to our huge advantage, but we can't do nothing about, hence accepting it.

Sending all the good, positive vibes, energies to our boys, COYB NSNO.

Justin Doone
83 Posted 08/06/2020 at 00:42:35
Yes, of course we can. But unfortunately we have some poor players and some good players with poor concentration and fragile mentalities.

Pickford being the classic British "hero to zero in less than 5 minutes" type of a player.

Top class save whilst 1 on 1 followed by a really poor kick, pass or throw.

Celebrate when we win, that's after the final whistle.

Kenny Smith
84 Posted 08/06/2020 at 11:12:39
Mike @74. I don't really have a view on it to be fair. It's sad to say but I think you have to accept that there will be a minority of idiots at most clubs. The sensible majority just has to make a stand and by reading the positive posts on this thread (which I didn't mean to hijack by the way) it's clear the tide has turned since I first stepped foot in Goodison and that's entirely down to you and the efforts by the club.

And for those who've said ‘well done' for standing by the club well it never crossed my mind to stop going because of a few idiots.

Thanks again for the positive posts.

John Wilson
85 Posted 08/06/2020 at 19:43:47
Karen Mason @ 75:

I will quote you here, ref Pickford: "...fairly obvious that the lad is no rocket scientist from the way he speaks and expresses himself."

Intelligence is largely a social construction given 68% of the population fall within the average range, which is to say the average population on the Bell Curve falls within 80-120 Full Scale Intelligent Quotient (hereafter, 'FSIQ'). You make the assumption that intelligence and or IQ is commensurate with 'speaking'. Speaking and or writing articulate is more likely a subjective consideration inter alia, the person's background.

Intelligence and or IQ has various forms but is in my view incredibly subjective. If a person or employee were to say to his employer 'I am intelligent', the same employer is likely to believe that intelligence is not a prerequisite but making him profit is. In other words, the employer would be the judge of what in his view are the prerequisites or criteria for intelligence.

One could analyse how people use words in sentence construction, or the rules of grammar. A person is more likely to be articulate if happenstance they were to have completed at least a level 6 qualification at university. The exception is private education at prep school for Oxbridge.

In any event, intelligence perhaps should be the ability to have an inherent critical mind. I believe IQ in terms of the top 16% at the least is more about capitalism and efficiency and not intelligence per se. IQ is correlated with intelligence based on a sample size of 100,000.

John Wilson
86 Posted 08/06/2020 at 19:50:36
*Intelligence Quotient... is what I intended to say. Moreover, I have a university education largely in law. If Pickford were to have a university education and or private education, there would be a presumption he would be intelligent based on your idea that being articulate means that a person is intelligent.
John Wilson
87 Posted 08/06/2020 at 20:15:07
Every law which has come into power has meant a change in the economy. There is no such thing as rights in my view, there is just the illusion of rights. It is more a privilege as rights are by no means guaranteed. So-called rights in my opinion merely create jobs for the professionals of the previous and current generations.

Race and or colour of skin is an illusion. It creates jobs for the new generation of professionals, the lawyers etc. It was the eugenic elites who were trying to convince the social classes below middle classes that they were "not fit for the survival of life". These same used IQ tests to convince the poor they were not 'fit for the survival of life'.

The IQ test was based on what the elites were good at. Hence those others would inevitably not score high if they were not educated (ie, social capital). The elites also used further propaganda by way of the Bell Curve from which the black communities were also said to have below-average intelligence, falling within the lowest 16% of the FSIQ (as above).

From that day to this current day, society has been organised in a certain way, which is probably why there is segregation in society in terms of education and employment. The elite education institutions are examination factories because society evolved into a knowledge society.

The only reason people have access to education is because it benefits the economy. The modern word is 'diversity', which in modern economy means women, the disabled and black people can go to university... as long as they pay themselves. Student loans create an economy for the education professionals. Therefore now is it discrimination to treat the black communities in a degrading way.

It is the same with women's rights and disabled persons' rights. Ask a person in the family court situation, where that is also a place to keep professionals in jobs, if there are rights and discriminatory treatment? The answer is a resounding No.

The UK and the USA would not be the strong economies they are today without slavery. Now the economies have developed capitalism can create rights. As C B McPherson says, first comes the markets then liberty, (paraphrasing). Normality is just the economy and modern living, But what is life? Everything is an illusion... as is football... an opiate for the masses, as Marx would say... to keep people busy, occupied.

Kase Chow
90 Posted 08/06/2020 at 00:04:10
Kenny,

#40 great post, mate.

Hope things improve generally.

Johnny Rainford
91 Posted 09/06/2020 at 10:18:53
This thread has become way too heavy 🤨. Karen was simply verbalising how the majority (I suspect) of us feel about Pickford. His conduct IS questionable and he should let his (average, sometimes below) performances do the talking. Why the over the top analysis?
Tony Abrahams
92 Posted 09/06/2020 at 11:41:43
I presume it’s what the law-makers try to do Johnny!

Get us to agree with them, or just make it impossible for us to understand the illusion maybe?

Chris Williams
93 Posted 09/06/2020 at 12:18:48
Don @79,

Quite right, 'racism' didn't exist as a word in those days. The word used in those days was 'racialism', I seem to recall.

Johnny Rainford
94 Posted 09/06/2020 at 12:34:17
Tony 😂👍👍
John Wilson
95 Posted 09/06/2020 at 15:57:19
I don't care about how people feel, I care about what evidence they have to believe in something. It is defamation to mindlessly say X person is not intelligent. It is not defamation if there it is a reasonable opinion.
Sean Kelly
96 Posted 09/06/2020 at 17:17:41
Kenny #40, great post. I hope your experiences now are more positive than those days.

Paul #78, Hi good to see you post on here. Hope you and yours are well in these crazy times.

On the BLM protests, I hope the younger generation, no matter colour creed or nationality, do not let the moment fade away without real change happening.

Cosmetic change by governments will only makes things worse in the long run. Hopefully we will see proper change where the authorities get the message “our lives matter”. The political classes have long lost the working class and never had an understanding of the disenfranchised or the unemployed.

Raymond Fox
98 Posted 09/06/2020 at 19:02:12
He's been asked a question – what's he supposed to say?

Of course we can give them a game, but we are not as good as them unfortunately, so it's a wing and a prayer at best.

John Wilson
99 Posted 10/06/2020 at 10:19:16
This race thing with George Floyd going on in the UK reminds me of Malcolm X more than Martin Luther King. The UK is no longer the UK.

When two mayors, one a powerful player from London, Sadiq Khan, and the other the one for Bristol, where a statue of important historical legacy is criminally damaged and rolled into the dock's water, support removing statues of historical legacy, the first thing to come to mind is wow, a tad liberal. That one is Asian and the other is black – now that is not just liberal that is alarming. This is a problem as a country is entitled to its historical legacy. This is the power of the media and psychology.

I am not a tory or liberal, just working class. I've always supported Labour. I look at the situation as someone with a law, sociology and psychology background. I am not racist. I am just quite educated and a bit of a thinker. 86% of people identifying as white citizens, 7.5% Asian, and about 3.5% black in the 2011 consensus. I think this a type of terrorism as the UK had become paradise for the brain-washed manic liberals.

Tony Abrahams
100 Posted 10/06/2020 at 10:50:46
You should never try and rewrite history, but you can and should definitely, learn from it.

I'm certain slavery still exists, as Dylan said, we've all got to serve somebody, and it was only the other week on these pages that Jay Wood, told us about the Brazilian maid, who caught and died from Covid, probably because her boss never told her that she had the virus.

“Every life matters”, and it's why I've got a bit of trouble getting behind this movement if I'm being honest, because I'm certain racism exists right across the globe, and also within every creed and colour, that also exists within the human race.

John Wilson
101 Posted 10/06/2020 at 17:11:00
Tony Abrahams @ 100. I think you're right. It is about the power of an idea rather than discrimination. What happened to George Floyd was terrible. It should not mean we have to change the system of the UK because "Black Lives Matter.". Everyone's life matters, Tony, as you say.

Imagine being a police officer in the USA where many have guns, apparently 25%. It was unlawful killing, not murder. Murder requires intention.

Listening to TalkSport they want black managers etc. Fine. Be good at what you do. Not get the job because of the colour of your skin. If there is discrimination in football jobs, that needs to change. But I believe if you're good enough for the job, be given every chance. Problem is even Everton like Italian or Spanish profiles.

Tony Abrahams
102 Posted 10/06/2020 at 17:16:35
Unlawful killing, but not murder, John? Incredible.
Jay Harris
103 Posted 10/06/2020 at 17:28:06
John,

While I agree with your overall sentiment and believe the motto should be ALL lives matter, I cannot agree that this wasn't murder. The cop and the black dude apparently worked together as bouncers previously and did not get on so there was definitely intent there and anybody with an ounce of common-sense knows that, if you kneel on somebody's neck for just on 9 minutes while they are screaming they can't breathe, it has to be murder and evil too..

In the '60s, police brutality in Liverpool was prevalent and still in some forces today there is an anti-scouse attitude so I do believe there is an overreaction to the "black" situation. There is a lack of tolerance and understanding in many people and it's not just the culture that needs to be looked at.

Mike Gaynes
104 Posted 10/06/2020 at 17:54:07
Kenny #84, thanks for that response.

PF #78, appreciate that additional background. I delayed my reply because I wanted to look through the Everton books I've collected to see if any of them mentioned that. They didn't, so I'm fascinated.

No change in my wife's situation, unfortunately. Thanks for asking.

John Wilson
105 Posted 10/06/2020 at 21:45:37
Jay Harris @ #103:

Intent is required because murder is obviously a very serious offence. Kneeling on someone's neck could be actus reus, ie, guilty act for murder.

I did not know they were bouncers together and didn't get on. Having a grudge against someone is not intent, that is motive.

Police do not go work to murder someone. Intention is the mental element of the unlawful killing and must be present for a murder offence. This is called mens rea or guilty mind. It requires causation too.

Was there a plan to murder him? If so, was it just one person or more? If so, that is conspiracy. If not, for the others, it is aid and abetting. It requires procure, counselling or assisting to convict the others of murder, aiding and abetting.

The USA prosecutor will start with a presumption of murder for the main cop and consider whether there was any intention. There is a criminal defence of loss of control. Also, the police handbook says you can kneel on the neck.

Was it temporary insanity... he looked like he was stuck in a situation and could not stop himself. Did he believe, whether unreasonably or not, that the black guy was lying when he said he couldn't breathe?

I believe they charged main officer with 3rd degree manslaughter then increased to 2nd degree.

An offence of murder therefore is not so straight-forward as the police have constitutional rights too, or due process and right to fair hearing, broadly. Otherwise, it might well be the state with lethal injection the got the murder offence.

David Connor
106 Posted 11/06/2020 at 12:43:18
Love the optimism, Jordan. By the way, no more fuck-ups please.

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