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Derek Thomas
1 Posted 14/02/2020 at 06:40:28
Well done, Pete, yet again we learn something new on ToffeeWeb. There's a thriving Portugese population here in Brisbane, enough that they've built a big social club out in the western suburbs.
Gerard McKean
2 Posted 14/02/2020 at 07:05:26
Fascinating, Pete, thank you. I was particularly interested to read about the contribution of Portuguese troops in WW1. Next time I visit that hallowed ground I’ll pay respects at their resting places.

And yes, let’s hope that this connection to Everton continues to thrive. It’s always interesting to read articles like this and the views of the likes of Jay in Brazil and Steve Ferns on our growing Portuguese and Brazilian contingents.

Alan McGuffog
3 Posted 14/02/2020 at 08:45:58
Excellent work, Pete. Is it true that Portugal and Sweden are still, technically, at war?

Someone told me this in a boozer on Rice Lane so I'm sure it is. (Ahem!)

Brian Harrison
4 Posted 14/02/2020 at 09:08:51
Brilliant, Pete, who would have thought reading ToffeeWeb would be so educational?

That was some team the Portuguese put together back then starting with John o' Guant as the sweeper, Henry the Navigator and Ferdinand Magellan in midfield with Anibal Milhais up top. I see Milhais was a gunner I guess this was before Wenger. I also see from the picture that even back then 4-3-3 was the preferred option.

Dave Williams
5 Posted 14/02/2020 at 10:18:51
Is it just me or could Duncan McKenzie be related to Henry the Navigator – see the picture above!
Tony Everan
6 Posted 14/02/2020 at 10:55:38
Very interesting Pete, thanks for the History lesson, I find it fascinating too. Especially as my great grandad, 'Senhor Lopes', was Portuguese.

With regards the precious metal graffiti commentary, maybe if there was more context like ''SILVER OUT!'' , ''PALLADIUM IN!'' we may be able to say for certain.

Jay Wood
[BRZ]

7 Posted 14/02/2020 at 11:36:52
I do love it when the first thing I read on a new day is as cracking as this. Sets me up nicely for the day.

You've excelled yourself one again, Mr Jones.

As someone who has lived and worked in both Portugal and Brazil, there is so much for me personally to enjoy in your piece, Pete. Including stuff I never knew.

For example, I wasn't aware that Henry the Navigator has a statue in Sefton Park!

I like how you portray the long-standing and historical tension that exists between the two Iberian countries, Portugal and Spain.

It's very much akin to how England and France circle around each other with suspicion, even today.

Did you come across the following popular phrase the Portuguese still use with regard to Spain in your research Pete? It always makes me smile:

'Only ill-winds and bad marriages come from Spain.'

Nice to hear you continue to research why Everton (and all its variations) is such a popular name in Brazil.

Push it to the top of your 47 articles to write, Pete! I can't wait to read that one.

Well done again on a superb contribution. Thanks.

PS - Dave Williams @ 5.

Curiously enough, there is little known Portuguese sea shanty that goes:

'Todos concordamos
Henrique o Navegador
é mágico...é mágico...é mágico'

Who would've thought it!

David France
8 Posted 14/02/2020 at 11:42:32
Congratulations to you and Ali on a fascinating and beautifully crafted article.
Dennis Stevens
9 Posted 14/02/2020 at 12:18:42
Marvellous stuff, Pete! Although, I suspect there's a few Scots might claim the Auld Alliance with France as even older – many argue it has never been formally revoked.
Steve Ferns
10 Posted 14/02/2020 at 13:29:02
Brilliant stuff. As someone who spent a lot of time in Portugal and loves his history, I didn’t except to learn so many new things. I take my hat off to you. Not only was it informative but it was also well written and entertaining. Thanks for taking the time to research and write this.
Mike Gaynes
11 Posted 14/02/2020 at 14:07:15
Thank you, Professor Jones, for a distinguished and enjoyable addition to my lengthy list of Wonderful Stuff I Never Expected To Learn On A Football Website.

And I note you have earned a plaudit from Dr France, which is the TW equivalent of the Nobel Prize.

Brent Stephens
12 Posted 14/02/2020 at 14:28:57
Interesting piece. Well done, Peter. And I notice you managed to work in a reference to our owner.
Rob Dolby
13 Posted 14/02/2020 at 14:52:14
Interesting and enjoyable read, Peter.

You missed Nuno out of the introduction, a very efficient under rated left-back.

I love the Algarve, the people, culture, food and golf.

Funny that as a kid I was only ever interested in history around wars and explorers, I didn't see the fascination with royalty. 35 years later, I am still only interested in War and explorers! The only Royle I have ever respected is Joe.

Tony Hill
14 Posted 14/02/2020 at 15:26:25
Lovely piece, thanks. The sort of thing that sets this site apart.
Phil (Kelsall) Roberts
15 Posted 14/02/2020 at 17:19:55
Alan #3 - it seems that the only time Sweden were at war with Portugal was the 7 years war back in 1756-63 but there were no blond haired Scandiavians trekking down to Iberia. It was a sort of world war conflict and Sweden was on the France/Spain/Austria/Russia alliance against the Brits and Prussians, who won.

However the comment could relate to the great battle of 2013 and for European Championship Qualification with similarities of David and Goliath where two armies were largely anonymous except for two men, Ronaldo and Zlatan.

Derek Knox
16 Posted 14/02/2020 at 21:45:43
A very welcome and enjoyable read, Pete, and as many have referred already an indicator that ToffeeWeb is a class above other websites with a knowledgeable fan base too.

So many thanks for both entertaining me and educating me in equal measure when there is another break in football matters. Please keep them coming, although I do appreciate the amount of research that must have been involved in its production.

ps: There was also an Abel Xavier who played for us, and defected to Mordor afterwards.

Bill Watson
17 Posted 14/02/2020 at 22:00:55
Fascinating article and a great read. Thanks Pete.
Nicholas Ryan
18 Posted 15/02/2020 at 00:31:52
We have a friend who is a Portuguese lawyer; my son asked him, what was the difference between Spain and Portugal? He thought for a minute, and said: 'The Portuguese are Explorers, the Spanish are Conquerors'!
Michael Coffey
19 Posted 15/02/2020 at 09:00:17
The guy Kendall was rumoured to be trying to sign (in about 1983) was João Batista Nunes. For some reason, a very fuzzy picture in the Liverpool Daily Post sticks in my mind. Fortunately, we got Andy Gray instead.
Pete Jones
20 Posted 15/02/2020 at 12:38:41
Thanks to everyone for their kind comments, it's really impressive how much information and wisdom has been added. What other football website can have mentions of the 7 Years War (which has a very distant Everton connection) and palladium (currently worth more than gold)?

Just to respond to some of the interesting points made - the Portuguese WW1 cemetery is at Neuve Chapelle very close to the magnificent Indian Memorial which can be found on the CWGC website. All military cemeteries have a sadness but the Portuguese one is particularly so for me. I did think about mentioning the Auld Alliance between France and Scotland, an excellent expression of the dictum 'my enemy's enemy is my friend'. Thanks also for reminding me of Nuno Valente, Joao Nunes and Abel Xavier, I can remember an Echo article about Nunes from around 1984 explaining why Kendall didn't sign him. I wonder what became of that Gray bloke?

And yes, Duncan McKenzie and Henry the Navigator - could the possibly be related? I searched the electrical interweb for a recent pic of Duncan and I can see what you mean.

Gerry Morrison
21 Posted 15/02/2020 at 23:11:33
Great stuff, as usual, Pete. Thanks for a thoroughly good read.
Nicholas Ryan
22 Posted 16/02/2020 at 01:53:34
Isn't Prince Henry 'The Navigator' somewhat ironically named, as: if my memory is right, he took an army, to what would now be Morocco, but had to come home, because they got lost!

He set up a school of Navigation at Sagres [there's even a beer named after it] which is apparently the most westerly point in Europe. We were there this summer, and there is a really atmospheric feel, as you stand on the cliffs staring out at the Atlantic; it's easy to understand how all those explorers set sail.

As to the treaty, the Portuguese take the 'our oldest ally' thing, very seriously. The treaty says, that each country shall be friend to the other's friends and enemy to the other's enemies .... so I guess that must mean, that for the last 700 years, the Portuguese have been obliged to hate the French!

Pete Jones
23 Posted 16/02/2020 at 16:57:16
By coincidence the Echo site has a piece about Everton and Brazillian players by Dave Prentice - https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/everton-transfer-collapse-enabled-duncan-17734736

I'd clearly forgotten more than I remembered.

Jay Wood
[BRZ]

24 Posted 16/02/2020 at 23:44:53
Pete, after reading your latest piece, I sought out some online genealogists here in Brazil and fired off an email to some of them.

I briefly explained the history and origins of the name, it's association with the city of Liverpool, our maritime trading history with Brazil and the curiosity as to why Everton and its derivatives is a popular name in Brazil.

I've got one reply so far, but it is a laughably bad one and doesn't encourage me to think the study of genealogy is a particularly sophisticated or developed here in Brazil.

The response?

"Unfortunately I don't know anything about the reason. I believe it could be because the name Everton is a beautiful word in the ears of Brazilians."

A very studious analysis!

Martin Nicholls
25 Posted 17/02/2020 at 13:40:29
Great article, Pete – thanks for your efforts.

Nicholas Ryan (#22) - I have visited the Algarve on many occasions and like you, was in Sagres and Cape St Vincent last year – I know exactly what you mean about the atmospheric feel about the place. I just love Portugal and it's people!

Pete Jones
26 Posted 17/02/2020 at 21:21:22
Jay, that's brilliant; I've been trying to think of how we could get the big collective ToffeeWeb brain working on this.

Your local knowledge is priceless. I did spot something about scouse sailors and the Brazillian navy during the independence struggle of the 1820s but I've yet to follow it up. If Lyndon is agreeable, we can use these comments to swap info.

Jay Wood
[BRZ]

27 Posted 17/02/2020 at 21:27:39
Anything I can do to help on this one – translation work, mediation with Portuguese speakers, etc – just let me know, Pete.

In the meantime, I'll fire off some more emails and hope I strike gold.

Steve Ferns
28 Posted 17/02/2020 at 21:35:17
Can't it be that the travelling Everton side of the very early 20th Century left such an impression on South America they called their kids after us? No?
John P McFarlane
29 Posted 17/02/2020 at 21:41:36
Jay,

The name Everton is a beautiful sound to the ears in any language. There's a PR / soundbite opportunity somewhere in that phrase, I'm sure.

Jay Wood
[BRZ]

30 Posted 17/02/2020 at 22:10:30
John @ 29.

I too liked the sentiment of the reply I got. But it really wasn't very scientific or helpful on learning more!

Steve @ 28.

Highly unlikely, methinks. They only called in at some Brazilian seaports en route to games against Argentinian and Uruguayan opposition. We played no games on Brazilian soil, or faced any Brazilian teams on that tour.

I think it was only in the 1960s we played a couple of Brazilian clubs at Goodison who were touring Europe.

Steve Ferns
31 Posted 17/02/2020 at 22:29:12
Jay, I was told that Brazilians like to be unique in their names. You don't get loads of kids all called John or whatever. They like to be inventive and so you get Richarlison.

I recall Murray Walker, the F1 commentator, talking about Ayrton Senna's name. He said he had been ignorant and called him Ayrton as the British would being a British name, but Ayrton and the Brazilians pronounced it differently. Apparently, and I'm going off an old memory here so I may be mistaken, but his parents got the name from Britain and liked how it read and then pronounced it how a Brazilian would. Giving their child an individual name.

Could Everton not just be an example of this? A somewhat unusual and unique name. Before globalisation, Everton FC would barely register with Brazilians. Would you have been able to watch the Premier League on TV in 1996 (when Soares was born) as this was when Juninho was playing for Boro and I recall there being limited coverage available in Brazil.

Is this on the right lines, Jay?

Jay Wood
[BRZ]

32 Posted 17/02/2020 at 22:52:03
Steve, it's true that Brazilians borrow the names of their children from both America and British culture, be that sports, music or cinema.

As you also say the spelling and pronunciation of such names warp into something unique, almost unrecognizable from the original it was based on.

In this piece from the Guardian a few years back, it suggests as previously speculated that the name arrived with migrants from Liverpool.

Link

To quote the relevant part:

"a large number of German immigrants headed to the southern states of Brazil in the 19th and early 20th centuries. But there was also a large influx of Anglo-Saxons (remember that Brazilian-born Charles Miller, who was educated in England, is believed to have brought the game to Brazil in the first place), along with Americans fleeing from the civil war. As a result, the name 'Ewerthon' is common, derived from the Merseysiders who immigrated to Brazil, while 'Washington' comes from their American counterparts."

The quoted spelling of Everton as 'Ewerthon' is one I've not personally encountered.

It still doesn't explain the wide distribution of the name, from north to south, east to west, in an extremely large country.

Nicholas Ryan
33 Posted 18/02/2020 at 11:05:57
This talk of Scousers in Brazil reminded me of my Dad. He died last year aged 88. He had advanced dementia, and had very little awareness or memory. He had a visitor from a mental health charity, who used to come once a week, and just sit with him for an hour. This lady was Brazilian.

My Dad had been a merchant navy officer, and was on a ship that docked in Rio during the 1950 World Cup. The visitor told me that, when she said she was Brazilian, and from Rio, my Dad said he was there in 1950, and went on to describe walking up from the dockside to the Maracana Stadium. He said they stopped for a drink at a cafe opposite a small park. He told her the match was Brazil v Sweden, and he had never seen so may people, as the crowd was 150,000!

The visitor was almost in tears, as she told me, that the cafe and the little park are still there. We looked up the 1950 World Cup, and guess what. ... Brazil played Sweden at the Maracana, and the crowd is recorded at 139,000.

So my Dad, who didn't know what day it was, and couldn't recognise me, had a perfect recollection of a football match 60-odd years ago, and 5,000 miles away!

Chris Williams
34 Posted 18/02/2020 at 11:16:25
Nicholas, that's both very sad, and somehow uplifting. There still remained a spark of your dad somewhere, despite that awful disease.

'Everton' also exists as a name in the West Indies, with the likes of Sir Everton Weekes, and others. A bit closer to Brazil geographically I suppose, so maybe related?

Brent Stephens
35 Posted 18/02/2020 at 11:22:45
Nicholas. As Chris says, both sad and uplifting. The sort of story I’m sure more than a few of us can identify with.
Jay Wood
[BRZ]

36 Posted 18/02/2020 at 13:26:34
Nicholas that is a beautiful post and one I can totally relate to, having lost my own father to dementia aged 89.

Like your own father, at the end my dad could barely recall anyone from his family, was confused as to why his wife of 60 years wasn't with him (she died 10 years earlier), couldn't recall that he'd just had his breakfast-dinner-tea five minutes earlier, etc.

And yet, get him on the subject of football, horse racing and cricket and memorable events of 50-60 years ago and his recall could at times be astonishing.

A dear friend of mine who lost his own mother to dementia summed up the affliction perfectly when he said 'we lose them twice'.

First, when the person, the personality, the memories slowly fade until their bodies and mind are occupied by an unrecognizable alien. Then, when they breathe their last breath.

How uplifting for you and your family that he had such vivid recall of that day in Rio. Your real father gaining ascendency over the alien who was trying to lay claim to his mind and body as his own.

Thanks for sharing such an intimate moment.

Dave Abrahams
37 Posted 18/02/2020 at 13:37:17
Brent (35), yes a very sad and also uplifting at the same time, and dementia is so common now that most of us know friends and family with this horrible illness, known as the “ long goodbye” it can last for years, but even in the sadness there is laughter and funny moments, not enough unfortunately.
Pete Jones
38 Posted 20/02/2020 at 15:21:15
A sad but somehow inspiring set of comments if I may say so. They resonate with me because I've had a bit to do over the years with EitC's Pass on the Memories initiatives and have got to know quite a few of the attendees and their carers. I know how positive the attendees feel about what the club do; they don't suffer with memory loss, they live with it.

On a related note I don't know if anyone saw the video that the club posted about Andre Gomes giving a lift to the match to three supporters; it was brilliant. He is a real hero off the pitch as well as on.

John Hughes
39 Posted 20/02/2020 at 16:56:01
Re the name Everton and Brazil. I do know that the name Everton derives from the saxon word ' Eofor', meaning "wild boar that usually roam in forests". Also, places where wild boar or pigs are grown and bred (Eofor -town / Everton).
There are a lot of wild boar settlements in south america, including Brazil. I'm not aware of any significant migration of the saxons to south america at any point but as a surname is it feasible that people from such settlements would bear the name through some tenuous connection ?
As far as the UK is concerned there is an Everton in Lincolnshire, a county well known for its pig industry and an Everton in the New Forest, Hampshire.
I can only imagine that something was going on in Everton, Liverpool a wee while ago that involved pig breeding or something related to the pig trade in general. Perhaps more learned Blues than me might be able to shed further clarity on the subject.
Dave Abrahams
40 Posted 22/02/2020 at 17:17:50
John (39), the three blocks of flats built in Everton in the early sixties, between Everton Brow and William Henry Street, were known (locally) as ‘ The Piggeries’.
Pete Jones
41 Posted 03/03/2020 at 20:07:42
John - 39, that's a really interesting idea, that the meaning of the word rather than the place could be the source. I'd not considered that. It also made me think about other routes into Brazil and I remembered what was British Guiana which had a mutual border.

As far as Eofor tun is concerned it is the most plausible origin of the name, and is the one that the dictionary of English place names goes for, but there are other theories. The tun suffix probably meant a farmstead in the Anglo Saxon era. If the Everton you mention is the one I'm thinking of it is just over the Trent in Nottinghamshire, and it is thought to have the same name origin. The one in Hampshire is interesting in that it doesn't appear to be derived from the presence of wild boar, it is a bit of a mystery. I've seen a suggestion that it might have started out sounding like Yeovilton in Somerset.

I believe that the wild boar disappeared from Merseyside around 200 years before what is now Brazil was sighted by the Portuguese, and while words like pig, swine, hog, boar and sow are Germanic in origin and tend to refer to the domesticated animal as well as its wild close relative. I wonder if eofor as a description may have disappeared with the animals it referred to.

And Dave, I'd completely forgotten the Piggeries, ironic or what?

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