Red Myopia and An Embarrassing National Outcry

The levels of pearl-clutching and near hysteria that has dominated the aftermath of Saturday’s controversial Merseyside derby really have been something to behold

Lyndon Lloyd 21/10/2020 240comments  |  Jump to last

The world is a very strange place these days. The levels of pearl-clutching and near hysteria that have dominated the aftermath of Saturday’s controversial Merseyside derby really have been something to behold. You would expect the Internet’s diaspora of Kopites, with their unrivalled sense of entitlement and offended-by-everything approach to social media, to spend the next week bleating about how they were robbed of victory and that Jordan Pickford should be retrospectively banned for his “assault” on Virgil van Dijk.

That has happened, of course, in spades, along with a few reds “supporters” wishing death on Richarlison and Jordan Pickford and “promises” made to Van Dijk that his injury will be avenged on the streets of Liverpool should the Everton goalkeeper ever dare set foot there.

What has been incredible, though, is the reaction by pundits, journalists and high-profile media personalities, some of whom you might have credited with a bit more impartiality than to get pulled into the Big Red pity party in quite the way they have. The Sky Sports and BT Sport pundit panels are stuffed with ex-Liverpool players, of course, so Steve McManaman’s insufferable “insights” and Graeme Souness’s self-righteous indignation, hilariously mocked by Jamie Carragher for the flagrant hypocrisy it was, are par for the course.

But then you’ve got the likes of Martin Keown, an ex-Everton player and no stranger to cynical on-field transgressions himself, saying Pickford’s impressive saves shouldn’t count because he shouldn’t have been on the pitch. The Daily Mail described the goalkeeper’s challenge as “a horror tackle” and The Mirror have given column inches to ex-referee Keith Hackett who equated Pickford’s actions to Roy Keane’s premeditated lunge on Alf Inge Haaland and suggested that Liverpool FC should sue the Everton man for the money they will spend paying for his treatment and his wages while he recuperates over the next few months.

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Former Premier League goalie Mark Bosnich and Julien Laurens, a man paid by EPSN among others for his opinions, took it to new heights of lunacy by arguing that Pickford should be banned for as long as Van Dijk is out injured. And to cap it all off, Georginio Wijnaldum’s simpering complaints that he and his team-mates haven’t slept since losing their captain have been carried across the back pages most of the major papers today, complete with a sorrowful piece by one of the industry’s heavier weights in Henry Winter.

Listen to an excerpt from David Preece's chat about Pickford with Matt Jones

Where were these distraught pieces when André Gomes had his ankle snapped in two as the result of a cynical tackle by Son Hueng-Min that was a good deal more impetuous and intentional than Pickford’s? Of course, as we Blues noted at the time, the media focus amid the fallout was on the South Korean’s tears and emotional well-being. Son even had his red card rescinded by the Football Association even though he had endangered the Portuguese’s career when the “red mist” descended.

Where was this almost mawkish response when Seamus Coleman suffered a double leg break and James McCarthy suffered the same fate a few years back? Or when Gerard Deulofeu ruptured his ACL in a challenge by Virgil van Dijk? Or, going further back, when Martin Taylor nearly ended Eduardo’s career by breaking his ankle in 2008?

It’s depressing that the back-page attention-grabbing tricks work so well in the clickbait economy of modern journalism so that newspaper editors indulge this sensationalist nonsense and it shouldn’t be ignored that this media furore is fuelling and encouraging the abuse that Pickford and his wife — not to mention Richarlison, the other bad guy from Saturday — have been receiving on social media this week.

All of it is enough to confirm your suspicions that the world is losing its mind but, thankfully, there are more measured, mature heads out there willing to see the incidents on Saturday for what they were — the product of the heat of the moment in a local derby; unfortunate incidents that happen in football, particularly when emotions are running high.

Martin Samuel used his Sunday column in the Daily Mail to focus on the football and Everton finally playing their neighbours as equals after years of living in their shadow. Speaking to The Blue Room podcast, David Preece backed his fellow Mackem, saying that he can’t listen to anyone who says Pickford acted with malice or that he even had time to. And David Squires had some fun with the situation in his latest cartoon for The Guardian, lampooning the funereal reaction from Liverpool to the loss of their skipper.

David Squires mocks the funereal reaction to Van Dijk's injury in his latest cartoon

From a psychological standpoint, much of the reaction from Liverpool fans has been understandable and there have been a few level-headed reds who accepted the situation for what it was. While the incident that caused Van Dijk’s injury wasn’t as visceral or shocking as those that befell Gomes and Coleman in particular, Liverpool have lost a hugely important player and the fact that it was a player from the old enemy that caused it has only rubbed salt into the wounds.

Richarlison’s even more rash and dangerous tackle on Thiago Alcântara has, unfortunately, only intensified the witch hunt and with the media piling on, there is a danger that what was arguably one of the nicest teams in the Premier League — indeed, too nice for too long — is being painted as a gang of thugs that goes out with the express intent of injuring their opponents. Certainly, Wijnaldum’s whingeing with the media’s backing is doing nothing to quell the outrage and the calls for some kind of “justice”, and as the narrative builds, so does the likelihood that Everton will find themselves on the wrong end of another big decision in the coming weeks. Perhaps that’s the point.

Let’s be clear — Jordan Pickford’s challenge on Van Dijk was, at best, clumsy (and typically Pickford-esque in that respect) and, at worst, utterly reckless. Richarlison’s was born of frustration but unforgivable and he was deservedly red-carded. Had the rules not been muddied by the introduction of VAR, Pickford probably would have been sent off, too, and the post-match discussion would be dominated by Evertonians — and observers of the England national team as well, no doubt — questioning how much longer the former Sunderland man can keep the starting spot in Carlo Ancelotti’s team. (In reality, that debate can’t be staved off much longer because Pickford almost cost his team-mates the game with that incident and his blunder for Jordan Henderson’s disallowed goal at the death but that’s a matter for another column.)

It wasn’t premeditated — and modern super slow-mo replays don’t help in this respect because they make it look as though he had time to think about his actions — and if there was any intent in it at all, it was probably to merely ensure that Van Dijk, in the same way the Dutchman had “left something” on James Rodriguez and Dominic Calvert-Lewin in the first couple of minutes of Saturday’s match, know he was in a local derby. The fact that Pickford connects with the defender’s leg as it was planted, thereby hyper-extending the ligaments on impact, was just unfortunate and made the “tackle” look that much worse.

Contact sport: Virgil van Dijk escapes causing Dries Mertens serious injury in a Champions League clash with Napoli

That the outcry has been so loud and widespread in the media speaks, no doubt, to the fact that Van Dijk is regarded as one of the best players in his position, appears to be a decent guy and model professional. It’s also down to who he plays for — the reigning Premier League champions and one of the media darling “big six” so there are plenty of parallels here to the “Project Big Picture” issue that took up all the oxygen last week. It’s hard to imagine a player from any other club bar maybe Manchester United getting such a reaction from the press and very little has been said about an awful two-footed lunge by Lewis Dunk from the weekend that could have been just as damaging as Pickford’s had the Brighton defender not been as fortunate.

What Goes Around Comes Around

No one would argue that Virgil van Dijk had an injury like that coming to him — he’s not that kind of player — or that any current reds player would be deserving of having seven to nine months carved out of their career as a result of one poor tackle. He’s not the first to come off badly from the blood and thunder of a Mersey derby, though. Marouane Fellaini was once sidelined by a two-footed challenge from Sotiris Kyrgiakos in an Anfield derby in 2010 and, most notable of all (but seemingly lost in the mists of time where modern journos are concerned because it’s from that “different generation” that Souness so conveniently but lamely invoked at the weekend), Liverpool’s Jimmy Case ended Geoff Nulty’s career with a horrible tackle 40 years ago.

Marouane Fellaini was sidelined for a lengthy period by an ugly tackle by Sotiris Kyrgiakos in 2010

But the bed-wetting by some Liverpool fans overlooks just how lucky their team has been with regard to serious injury to their players in recent years. While Everton have had leg and ankle fractures, ACLs, Achilles tendon ruptures, medal ligament injuries and quadricep tears that have deprived them of key players for long periods. Jürgen Klopp has been able to call upon a remarkably consistent team and it was a big reason why Liverpool cantered to the title last season.

And while the Anfield hierarchy are demanding answers from the Premier League over VAR reviews and the ever-evolving offside rule and will, with their outsized reputation and consequent heft, probably agitate enough to force through some kind of change, they’re conveniently forgetting just how much and how often they have benefitted from decisions on a routine basis. Indeed, this pathetic reaction from their fans to being on the wrong side of very clear rules is illustrative of a fanbase utterly unfamiliar with the kind of refereeing injustice that teams like Everton experience all too frequently. Not for nothing did “Penalty to Liverpool!” become a meme on Twitter last season as Sadio Mané and Mohamed Salah dived and flopped their way to cheap penalty kicks. Now the boot is finally on the other foot, they can’t handle it.

And let’s not forget just how lopsided the Merseyside derby hall of infamous and scandalous officiating has become over the years. There are incidents that date back four decades that still wound Evertonians to this day and many can reel them off without taking a breath. For them, the following won’t be anything other than a painful reminder so feel free to skip this wander down memory lane but any reds who have got this far might need a dose of perspective.

Clive Thomas disallowed a perfectly legitimate goal by Bryan Hamilton that robbed Everton of a place in the 1977 FA Cup Final that might well have transformed what ended up being a barren decade after the Toffees lifted the title in 1970.

In the 1984 Milk Cup Final, another incident that will never be forgotten by the Blue family, Alan Hansen’s clear handball on the line denied Adrian Heath a winner that would have delivered a trophy to Goodison Park a few weeks earlier than would end up being the case when Howard Kendall steered his team to FA Cup glory.

In April 2000, in one of the more egregious errors in judgement, Graham Poll blew the final whistle as the ball was heading towards Sander Westerveld’s empty goal, the reds’ keeper having blasted a clearance against Don Hutchison’s backside, depriving Walter Smith’s side of victory. Unlike Thomas, who has never provided an explanation, years later, Poll would admit he got the decision wrong and the goal should have allowed.

And Poll was at the centre of controversy again in an Anfield derby in 2002 when he elected to award Liverpool a free-kick instead of Everton a penalty for handball by Stephan Henchoz and then somehow failed to take action against Steven Gerrard for a dreadful two-footed assault on a prone Gary Naysmith.

In 2007, it was Mark Clattenburg’s turn to take centre stage in a Goodison derby that saw two Everton players receive red cards, the first of which, for Tony Hibbert, was going to be just a booking as the referee reached for his yellow card but changed his mind after Gerrard got in his ear. The seething injustice around this edition of the derby was compounded by the fact that Clattenburg failed to give the Blues a penalty when Joleon Lescott was hauled down in the box by Jamie Carragher and the referee failed to even card Dirk Kuyt for an incredible, flying, two-footed, waist-high lunge on Phil Neville that the latter managed to avoid by hurdling out the way.

Then, in 2011, match official Martin Atkinson, was completely taken in by Luis Suarez’s blatant dive right in front of him and brandished a red card to Jack Rodwell, ending that Goodison derby as a contest in just the 22nd minute and condemning Everton to a 2-0 defeat.

Suarez, of course, was the villain of the piece two years later back at the Old Lady when his stamp on Kevin Mirallas took the Belgian out of the game but went unpunished, another in that long list of Blue derby grievances.

And just on Saturday, Liverpool got away with another two incidents, one where Andrew Robertson kicked out at Allan and the other where Mané blatantly tripped Yerry Mina off the ball. Neither of them caused any injury — although had Robertson raked his studs down Allan’s Achilles rather this his calf, it may have been a different story — but they’ve also been completely glossed over in the hand-wringing over Van Dijk’s injury.

Andrew Robertson's cynical kick out at Allan went unseen and unpunished by the officials

And do we even have to mention the Heysel ban, the greatest injustice of them all?

All in all, the fallout from Saturday’s derby has been a little pathetic to watch unfold but, again, there’s a risk of narratives being sown that could have implications for way that match officials treat both clubs going forward. It’s incredibly myopic of Wijnaldum to claim that Everton “take it way too far in the games we play against them,” when you survey the modern history of the derby and what has been perpetrated by both sides.

It was a derby, one of the more even and tightly-contested for quite a while but one also marred by a couple of very poor tackles that have garnered all the attention and one that, unfortunately, resulted in a long-term injury. No one died; life will go on, and while the northwest is roiled by rising Coronavirus cases, fresh lockdowns and the resulting economic hardship, you’d think there were more important things to whine about.

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Reader Comments (240)

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Nicholas Howard
1 Posted 21/10/2020 at 08:33:51
Great write up Managed to refer your article to some RS friends of mine in my region Interesting to find out their thoughts later tonite.

Of my opinion RS just of some spoiled brats backed up by some ingenious adults over some trivial matters under a microscopic vision with 10000x magnification. Grow up RS

Ross Cooper
2 Posted 21/10/2020 at 08:41:20
Excellent analysis. It should be compulsory reading for all Liverpool fans, referees and journalists. I'm heartedly sick of the red hypocrisy
Steve Brown
3 Posted 21/10/2020 at 08:58:32
The hypocrisy is driven by fear perhaps.

What else could explain the hysterical reaction? They have had it all their own way for a long time and now realise that won't always be the case.

Yet another tedious response below.


Eddie Dunn
4 Posted 21/10/2020 at 08:58:39
Excellent summary. Read the Whingealdum one this morning. He obviously didn't notice Virgil trying to put one on our stars before his injury or Robertson's kick. Poor things losing sleep...cossetted and indulged in a City in a crisis. Pathetic!
Steve Guy
5 Posted 21/10/2020 at 08:58:43

Wow, as if the media bonfire needed further fuel, they're keeping it going at the RS luvvin Beeb with this one from press conference yesterday.

I know Everton are keeping a dignified silence on all this, but seriously someone should be saying enough is enough pointing out that the RS were not the angels they were portraying themselves to be on Saturday.

The way history is being rewritten here wouldn't disgrace Stalin! If we don't say anything then this spin will become an undeniable truth.

Brian Ronson
6 Posted 21/10/2020 at 08:59:24
Great article. Not sure I agree with Van Dijk being a "nice guy". Deliberately went after Rodriguez in first minutes of the game (cynical knee in groin).

Doesn't hide the fact that Pickford's reckless action isn't compensated for by the good saves he makes. Think he will be moved on in the next 12 months in a quiet way to ensure we get some of our money back.

Paul Hughes
7 Posted 21/10/2020 at 09:01:02
The Times newspaper yesterday had 3 separate Van Dijk articles. The one Henry Winter wrote had me sounding off on the on-line comments section. I was pleased to see that 10 Times on-line readers agreed with my disgust at "the journalistic deification of all things Liverpool".

The BBC Breakfast sport report this morning, presented by the Red Sally Nugent talked about the forthcoming Champions League games and said "and Liverpool face their match without Van Dijk, injured by Everton's Pickford", and showed the familiar picture of the challenge.

Gosh, it's tiresome.

Peter Neilson
8 Posted 21/10/2020 at 09:09:53
Excellent article. The bed wetting example is set by the team. This morning Wijnaldum “Everton take it too far in the games we play”, “accidents can happen but the way they were doing it is completely unacceptable” and the best “none of the players slept because of what happened “. While Klopp goes on “a couple of days ago something happened which should not happen in a football game”. Although maybe Klipperty was referring to a VAR decision going against them! Next thing a minutes silence before their games.
Steve Guy
9 Posted 21/10/2020 at 09:14:05
BTW, I've written to the club asking that they issue some kind of statement to strike some balance but I guess they will feel stuck between a rock and a hard place.
Si Pulford
10 Posted 21/10/2020 at 09:15:26
The fume is real. All you can do is sit back and watch, open mouthed as the echo open a book of condolences for VVD and ‘Gini’ both spits his dummy AND cries.

Remarkable scenes all round. Welcome to our world.

Patrick McFarlane
11 Posted 21/10/2020 at 09:19:29
Excellent article Lyndon. It's a pity that most of the media is so reactionary and spends very little time searching for truth when a banner headline full of emotional adjectives suffices to placate their paymasters and subscribers.

Everton FC suffers generally negatively on these types of incidents because they always have to play second fiddle to the neighbours in both the local and national media so that only sites like this can put forward a counter-argument on behalf of Evertonians and you have done this in the most thoughtful way.

I suspect that the media outrage will have an adverse effect on the club in the near future as officials will be hypersensitive in the aftermath of the derby and this may cloud their judgement.

The club will handle this as it has done so often before, but it's a pity that Carlo's team could pay a high price for a couple of unfortunate moments in a very competitive derby.

Scott Hall
12 Posted 21/10/2020 at 09:28:04
The ex-red pundits and their media chums have been waiting for a reason to discredit Everton and now they have it. And boy, they will milk it dry and then some.

For what it's worth, my opinion is bring it on. It tells me we've become a threat. And what we need to do as a club now is close ourselves off to these ineffectual and irrelevant hate preachers.

We need to use this to our advantage and create an 'us versus the world' mentality. With that wall around us, we go into every match like it's a fight we cannot lose. Make them hate us more, make them scared of us. Make it so that nobody wants to play little old Everton.

Asbjørn Opstad
13 Posted 21/10/2020 at 09:28:08
Excellent (as always), Lyndon.
Thanks for putting this together.
Mal van Schaick
14 Posted 21/10/2020 at 09:37:33
Great Article. It would be nice to see some passion from the past, from real Scousers like Peter Reid and Gerrard and in our derby matches from the 60’s, 70’s and 80’s. Alas, with a foreign influx of players our local home bred players are in a distant past. Still there is some passion as a local derby but the ferocity is all but gone.
Martin Nicholls
15 Posted 21/10/2020 at 09:38:49
Physios treated van Dijk's left knee on pitch yet it is his right ACL that is injured. Klopp has admitted that he had been playing "in pain" -was the right knee already damaged and just aggravated by challenge? If so, then their own physios and management are more culpable than JP for having him play whilst carrying an injury.
Derek Moore
16 Posted 21/10/2020 at 09:38:55
Elaine from Peterborough – and her ilk – should have to read and respond to every point made in this even-handed and wholly truthful piece.

This may be the best thing Lyndon has ever written. Brilliant and thanks.

Ajay Gopal
17 Posted 21/10/2020 at 09:40:57
Amazing article, Lyndon, just articulates everything that has been running around in my head, but didn't have the skills and motivation to put into an article like you have. In the immediate aftermath of the derby, I had some sympathy for VVD (and still do, I never like to see a footballer out with an injury) but the more this has gone on, I feel a sickness in my stomach.

They had a pre-match show on Star Sports here in India on Sunday, the day after the Saturday derby - Seema Jaiswal was the host, Glenn Hoddle and the other guy, whose name I forget. So, they are in the middle of the discussion and then she suddenly goes "Hold on a moment! We have breaking news" with a very mournful expression and I am like 'Oh God, no, not another terrorist attack in Paris/London or wherever', and she announces "News coming in that Virgil van Dyke will need to undergo surgery on his knee for the injury suffered yesterday resulting from a tackle by. bla.. bla..". And I was like "WTF???"

When did this ever happen to an injured Everton player? I shudder to think of what might have happened to Pickford and EFC if VVD's leg had snapped in 2 like what happened to Gomes. Probably there would have been calls to bring back the death penalty in Britain!

Pickford is a strong guy, he needs the support of Carlo and the fans, whatever we may think about his footballing ability at the moment. Yes, he is in the middle of terrible form, but I somehow feel that he thrives in adversity and this incident, might bizarrely bring back his focus and concentration. It will be an interesting return derby in April by which time, I assume that the crowds will be allowed back in the stadiums.

Brent Stephens
18 Posted 21/10/2020 at 09:44:15
"It was a derby, one of the more even and tightly-contested for quite a while but one also marred by a couple of very poor tackles that have garnered all the attention and one that, unfortunately, resulted in a long-term injury."

Quite, just saying it honestly, as it was.

"No one died; life will go on, and while the northwest is roiled by rising Coronavirus cases, fresh lockdowns and the resulting economic hardship, you’d think there were more important things to whine about."

Exactly, a sense of perspective needed.

Ray Roche
19 Posted 21/10/2020 at 09:47:39
Excellent article Lyndon. It’s a pity only Everton supporters will see it.
Elaine from Peterborough. I didn’t hear her comments, is there a link which I can listen to? I could do with a laugh.
George McKane
20 Posted 21/10/2020 at 09:49:20
At last, some challenge to the uninterrupted bias in media including some dreadful statements on Social Media. I am unsure within myself whether EFC should make a counter statement to Klopp and Co but then you get drawn into a "tit for tat" brawl.

Suffice to say, I believe that this cover-up is an indication of how worried they (all of them) are about the possibility of Everton and Ancelotti breaking their grip. I would not be intimidated by any of this drivel but would certainly use it to our advantage. Win again on Sunday and let's see:

"Have you seen the little piggies
Crawling in the dirt?
And for all the little piggies
Life is getting worse,
Always having dirt to play around in
Have you seen the bigger piggies
In their starched white shirts?
You will find the bigger piggies
Stirring up the dirt,
Always have clean shirts to play around in
In their styes with all their backing
They don't care what goes on around
In their eyes there's something lacking
What they need's a damn good whacking"

Cosmic Blue Grooves All The Way.

Patrick McFarlane
21 Posted 21/10/2020 at 09:50:31
Ray #19,

Lyndon's piece has been linked to by the Echo in its Everton news section, it might still only be read by Evertonians but you never know others may see it too.

Rob Halligan
22 Posted 21/10/2020 at 09:53:54
Excellent article Lyndon, and one which should be sent to Sky, BT sport and Talksport. Elaine from Peterborough would be mortified when she learns that her lovey dovey squeaky clean team are not so squeaky clean after all.

For anyone who wonders what I'm on about, Elaine from Peterborough was on radio 5live on Sunday night and again last night on Talksport. She was almost hysterical on Sunday, like a wailing banshee, a real drama queen. She basically came on to say every time the derby is at Goodison, there is nearly always trouble. She cites a challenge by Mirallas on Suarez on both nights, but obviously doesn't know the reason for the challenge. Last night she cites a challenge by Fellaini on a player, but I can't remember who she said it was. I'm sure we all know the reason for the Mirallas "revenge" tackle, so I won't go into it.

Last night on Talksport, Perry Groves was adamant Pickford fully intended to injure Van Dijk. How does he know, is he a mind reader?. All he kept on saying was that Pickford had both feet at least two feet off the floor, with his eyes only focused on Van Dijk, and making a "lunge" at Van Dijk with every intention of hurting him. Well the image I've seen shows an entirely different picture. (Where's Jay Woods Brz when you need him). I'm not condoning Pickford for his actions (I said last night I felt he was 100% innocent, which was totally a tongue in cheek comment), but in no way did he intend to hurt Van Dijk, but I don't think he is 100% to blame either. It was just an unfortunate collision which resulted in an unfortunate injury for one.

This is going to rumble on until the return derby at mordor. I seriously believe, even if fans still aren't allowed back into stadiums, there will be some planned revenge attack by RS fans towards Pickford. I can almost see now, the Everton team bus being attacked on its way up anfield road towards the stadium.

Peter Roberts
23 Posted 21/10/2020 at 09:56:30
I hope that decent reds (and there are a few) are cringing at some of the behaviour from the past few days. It's beyond galling. Brazilians mourned Ayrton Senna less than LFC fans have over van Dijk!

What concerns me more is that there will be a concerted effort to punish us by the media and the referees (look out Sunday when we play Liverpool Rejects XI) and, while Carlo will be aware of this and address it when it does happen, the players will need to be super careful because the knives are out.

An Alamo mentality might help us.

Dave Abrahams
24 Posted 21/10/2020 at 10:08:41
Excellent, Lyndon, it deserves National exposure, hope it gets it, but somehow doubt it.

Take a bow, Lyndon, brilliant.

Andrew Ellams
25 Posted 21/10/2020 at 10:09:25
The reaction genuinely borders on insanity. Petitions for Parliament to overturn the result and for the police to take action against Pickford and Richarlison, a book of condolence in the local paper and the media still talking about it (wait until BT's coverage of their CL game tonight).

Then again, did one of them claim they were going to sue Real Madrid for £1bn when Ramos dared to tangle with Salah in the CL Final?

Peter Mills
26 Posted 21/10/2020 at 10:09:31
Superb article Lyndon, thank you.
Geoff Cadman
28 Posted 21/10/2020 at 10:14:30
Ajay #17, there was an online petition to bring back capital punishment, but it has been taken down. Apparently hanging is too good for Jordan Pickford.

Excellent Article Lyndon, could you not submit for publication in the Echo?

Brian Williams
29 Posted 21/10/2020 at 10:16:10
David #27.

Imagine how Ed Balls may have felt!

Brian Williams
30 Posted 21/10/2020 at 10:17:26
Geoff #27.

Geoff, the red Echo has already referenced and reproduced a fair chunk of Lyndon's article.

Mike Hughes
31 Posted 21/10/2020 at 10:18:52
Excellent article.

I often get labelled a Bitter Blue.
I've started responding by saying, "Thanks Kitty".
On further explanation I explain it is short for Self-Pity Kitty.
I'm sure many of them are still curled-up in the foetal position at home, trembling and sobbing, the curtains drawn closed against the cruel world outside, a picture of VVD clutched to their aching hearts.


Mind you, we had better be careful.
Elaine and her Peterborough posse could be on the march, clutching stale scones and vol-au-vents to hurl at us Bitters.

(Seriously, expect further nausea inducement down the line when she is guest of honour at VVD's return, a smiling, tear-filled Klopp in the background, Phil Collins' 'If Leaving Me is Easy' a background accompaniment. Buckets at the ready.)

Gerry Quinn
32 Posted 21/10/2020 at 10:23:46
Expect a few of the supposed redshite fans to attempt to join TW today - this page has just appeared on their NewsNow website!
Rob Halligan
33 Posted 21/10/2020 at 10:24:40
Hilarious, Mike. I heard Elaine from Peterborough saying her husband is also a Man Utd fan. A right pair of glory hunters.
David Pearl
34 Posted 21/10/2020 at 10:26:05
I object to the term 'pearl-clutching'.

Apart from that, l have long said we should have sued the redshite for 5 years of loss of earnings from missed European football.


Mike Hughes
35 Posted 21/10/2020 at 10:43:35
Rob, this is no laughing matter.

If you think Elaine will defrost those vol-au-vents for the likes of us before throwing them, think again.

The Middle England RS-Manc axis can get really nasty when it wants to.

Dermot O’Brien
36 Posted 21/10/2020 at 10:48:05
Haha David.

A club whose players supported one of their own who directed racist abuse at an opponent.
A club that won the CL and whose supporters then vandalise an Everton monument.
A club that won the PL and whose supporter then set fire to Everton office building and damaged the Dixie Dean statue.
A club whose supporters wave a Steaua Bucaresti banner.

A club that can fuck right off.
Fucking hate them.

If RS were playing the Nazis in Escape to Victory I would be shouting for the Nazis (well hoping for a draw).

Stan Schofield
37 Posted 21/10/2020 at 10:48:16
There are of course many ordinary Liverpool supporters who are simply decent people and largely take things as they come, in the style of ‘Keep calm and carry on’.

But unfortunately there are some weird types who are extreme zealots. Trouble is, LFC itself has failed miserably to lead by example. Their utterances have been unprofessional, inciting extreme behaviour from others, and have in my opinion brought the game into disrepute. Klopp in particular comes over as unbalanced. The relevant authorities need to censure him particularly and LFC generally.

For a club that has had so many issues with the media in relation to the Hillsborough disaster, it is ironic that that very media are fomenting matters in the way we’re seeing.

The responses of LFC and the media are enough to put ordinary decent folk off football alltogether. It is an absurd and ugly episode that requires a firm and clear response from the authorities.

Brian Harrison
38 Posted 21/10/2020 at 10:52:41
Guys, don't you think we are now adding to this ridiculous situation by having numerous posts about it? The game is over, the result was a draw, and nothing is going to change that, they have also said no further action will be taken against Pickford.

The other lot will be delighted to see that our fans are just as preoccupied as they are, it's 1 game in 38... move on.

Ray Roche
39 Posted 21/10/2020 at 10:53:06
Patrick @21

Thanks, I didn't know that. 👍🏻

Stan Schofield
40 Posted 21/10/2020 at 11:03:55
Brian@38: Correct. A lot of posts were inevitable, but the main point is that Everton has not responded as a club, and arguably does not need to do so. Regardless, there is a very serious issue of how the authorities should respond to this episode.
Brian Harrison
41 Posted 21/10/2020 at 11:08:33
Stan 40

I think the club have done exactly the right thing by making no comment, these type of tackles quite often and unfortunately 1 player is likely to miss the rest of the season. Should the officials have sent Pickford off yes absolutely.

Geoff Cadman
42 Posted 21/10/2020 at 11:11:52
Brian #30 thanks for the info, hopefully it will have a knock on effect.
Gerry #32 this should really make it interesting
Jim Harrison
43 Posted 21/10/2020 at 11:16:42
Great read, but I think you have gone a bit easy on Mane!

Players are not allowed within a foot of him without it looking like he’s been shot. He’s gone in on Digne in a nasty challenge, done over Mina. Guy has mastered the dark arts

John Keating
44 Posted 21/10/2020 at 11:22:51
To be honest I’ve had more laughs in the past few days than ever!
I think it’s hilarious watching and listening to them all
Mind you I’ll probably get a bit pissed off with it after it spills over to next season.
Personally I hope the Club do not respond to it in any way
However the next time Henry Winter or any of the other RS journos who have made this so ridiculous, turn up at Goodison for their pukka pies and treble GT’s the Club should tell them to F Off
Rennie Smith
45 Posted 21/10/2020 at 11:23:16
Brian@38, I did think that at first but because they're still banging on about it they're making themselves look 'stupid' to everyone else in football. So let's keep baiting them because seriously, we've put up with their shit for decades.
Mike Iddon
46 Posted 21/10/2020 at 11:24:44
I was, as I'm sure many readers also were, at the game where Jimmy 'Shithouse' Case tackled Geoff Nulty. I was right by it in the Paddock. I can remember it clearly, being totally shocked and intuitively knowing Nulty would struggle to come back which of course he never did, his livelihood taken away.

That incident hardened my visceral intense dislike of the RS and everything that has come out this week (good on Carragher calling Souness out btw) has only hardened my view, when at my age I should be mellowing.

I have two close mates who are rabid LFC fans, one who I was at school with, never piles in after derby games as I don't with him; it's a game of football, we don't need the extra shit.

It's different with the other one, he's been frothing at the mouth all week until I reminded him of the Case incident as, funnily enough, he was at the game.

Bring it on, we are top of the league, a threat to them and the media's selected order, and I love it.

Stan Schofield
47 Posted 21/10/2020 at 11:26:55
Brian@41: I think the issue now is not what decisions the ref and VAR made, but what the higher authorities should do about the response of LFC and the media (separately) to the match. The match is over, but there are bigger issues that now need dealing with.
Derek Knox
48 Posted 21/10/2020 at 11:31:27
Another very poignant and well written article Lyndon, you cover so many points that I had even forgotten about. I just hope that when all the dust eventually settles we come out of this hoo-hah in a decent light, and not one that is subjected to red-tinted lens magnification.

Mind you it already has, but hopefully people will be able to read between the lines, and fathom out exactly what is the true crux of the matter.

I get a lot of jokes on What'sApp, and send them on to various friends, (yes some are actually RS) but the recent ones regarding Saturday and the focus on JP and VVD, have been met in one quarter as being 'boring now'.

To which I immediately riposted, that it was Liverpool who will not let this matter rest, not us, each time I check in to SSN, they are still going on about it 4 or 5 days after the event.

Glad to see that nearly all Evertonians, who unfortunately have had to endure similar torture for more years than we deserve, have nevertheless kept a dignified stance on the ugly propaganda emanating from Mordor.

Tony Abrahams
49 Posted 21/10/2020 at 11:34:49
Klopp is basically saying that Pickford never went for the ball. They laughed their heads off when erratic Pickford, gifted them a Merseyside derby two seasons ago, and Klopp got a fine for running on the pitch like a madman, celebrating like he’d just won the World Cup.

WANTITBOTHWAYS FC, are not going to get an inch out of us Evertonians on this one, no fucking chance.

Kevin Molloy
50 Posted 21/10/2020 at 11:40:37
Great article. before the derby, Jurgen had already had spats with a number of public figures Lampard, Keane, Geoff Shreeve, just in the last 8 weeks. He is clearly (for whatever reason,) at the end of his tether at the moment).
And then Carragher calls him on the fact they were light at centre half anyway, and he blows again. But I reckon he touched a nerve. I reckon they finished the last window, with 'we should be ok, just pray nothing happens to Virgil'. And I reckon he's right, that is their season finished, they were wholly dependent on this guy playing every game. Without him they will do well to finish top 4. That may sound extreme, but that team will lose confidence rapidly once they start shipping stupid goals.
Mike Price
51 Posted 21/10/2020 at 11:43:34
Excellent piece Lyndon.
Outraged at everything, ashamed of nothing.
I’ll never forget a group of them laughing after Heysel saying it was worth it because we couldn’t play in the European Cup. They still celebrate it with their Steaua Bucharest flag.
Vile, greedy, arrogant, entitled and embarrassing. One of their sites had a comment saying Everton were an embarrassment to this City!
You really couldn’t make it up.
Tony Abrahams
52 Posted 21/10/2020 at 11:45:00
I’m not sure if you could be a journalist who could write on any number of things besides Everton, Lyndon, but this is a fantastic piece in defense of Everton, mate.

You put a lot of these national journalists to shame when you write about our club, and some people might say it’s a very one sided response, which makes it all the better imo, because that’s exactly how the fallout from the Merseyside derby as been reported on nationally has you quite rightly point out👏👏

David Cash
53 Posted 21/10/2020 at 11:55:15
I know what you are saying Brian, but we have generally greeted the hysteria and outrage with a sniggering contempt among ourselves.

We needed a public response from somebody who not only knows the facts, but can find the words to expose the absurdity of this media frenzy.

Lyndon cuts straight through the bullshit with this admirable and unerringly accurate response. The RS propaganda machine will not want this piece reaching a wider audience. Too many home truths.

I urge all Evertonians to send this article to every kopite. Scrap that. Every football fan, they know.

Take a bow, Mr Lloyd.

John Keating
54 Posted 21/10/2020 at 11:56:36
Unfortunately we know what's coming now.

They will be given license to dive and cheat their way through games and get every debatable decision. Expect VAR to break down on any controversial decision against them.

Other side of the coin, we will be marked down for every decision. Until the media stop fawning over “the big 2” nothing will change.

Tony Everan
55 Posted 21/10/2020 at 12:00:25
Well said Lyndon.

Rank hypocrisy that is driven by fear, these games are feisty and in the past Liverpool have delivered some horror tackles themselves. More than their fair share.

Neither side has the moral high ground. All this knee jerk hyperbole Is a result of the shock of losing their most important player and is far from balanced or impartial.

This relentless vitriol is now inciting hate and threats of violence. It has to stop before a player or their family get hurt, or worse. The media outlets that continue to run with this, like a wolf pack, will be complicit.

Bill Watson
56 Posted 21/10/2020 at 12:04:48
Just come in, turned the radio on, and Jim White is STILL banging on about St Virgil, on Talk Sport.
Eddie Dunn
57 Posted 21/10/2020 at 12:05:36
The worrying result of all of this RS hand-wringing could inevitably lead to refs prejudging our players and giving them cards at a lower margin of seriousness than before.

The crescendo of pundits of all colours(club) from the so-called top six, shows the cartel does not want to become a "top seven". Indeed would the media fail to include any of those usual suspects should they fail to occupy those places in the final standing?

The Keowns, Murphies, Shearers and Wrights and the nincompoops like Jenas, Crooks and Savage, plus the serial idiots like Jim White, Merson and Parlour are very worried that we could gatecrashtheir cozy little party. Watch out EFC players for the fall-out from the Red anguish.

It does remind me of how in '85 the press, took half a season to recognise that we might just be in the title mix. They couldn't see past their darlings of RS, Man Utd and Spurs.

Tony McNulty
58 Posted 21/10/2020 at 12:07:28
Well-argued, fact-based piece.

I suspect Everton FC will be bounced into responding to the hysteria. If we don't, it will be assumed that we have no defence and are culpable of something.

Our silence will be misconstrued and, like others, I do wonder if decisions might be made against us in the coming weeks.

John Raftery
59 Posted 21/10/2020 at 12:09:00
Brilliant, balanced analysis. Thank you, Lyndon. A book could be written about the list of injustices we have suffered at the hands of officials in derby matches over the past 50 years. Your list is by no means exhaustive but it illustrates what we have been up against.

Dave White
60 Posted 21/10/2020 at 12:16:35
Excellent piece Lyndon, thanks.

The media reaction to the ‘tackle’ has brought out in me a strong urge to get behind Pickford. I’m not suggesting I would defend what he did, it was reckless, but the vitriolic loathing in the media has made me realise how strongly the Sky 6 will attack in response to any perceived threat to their dominance.

I feel like they’re scared. And I feel like we are the reason for that. We need to stick together, close ranks and back our boys to the hilt because evidently no-one else is going to.

Christine Foster
61 Posted 21/10/2020 at 12:16:37
Great piece Lyndon, a truly balanced perspective and yet one that's put paid to their lie. I hope it's sent to the Echo and printed as the view from the other side of the fence, in fact it should be sent to every paper and sky. Trouble is they would use it to stoke the fire of one eyed righteous indignation with their own tawdry headline.
Me think they doth protest too much.. Our perspective would be seen as justification for the alleged "assault " rather than observations and comments on their repeated baseless condemnations. Whatever we say will be twisted, whatever we don't say will be an admission of guilt. My only answer is simply what goes around comes around, the gods balance the scales, karma is king, while Pickford remains silent I hope he is not in a dark place, he needs to know that no matter what is said we will stand by him because if we do not it will be seen as an admission of guilt but more importantly not to do so would be the end of the players career at this club.
Derek Knox
62 Posted 21/10/2020 at 12:19:46
David P @34, " I object to the term 'pearl-clutching ".

Take solace then my friend from the old adage, which I believe has biblical derivations : Pearls before swine! :-)

Michael Lynch
63 Posted 21/10/2020 at 12:19:46
Excellent article, but I'm loving their whinging and moaning, it's great to see them rattled - especially Klopp. I'd expect no more and no less from the media - it's all just clickbait anyway - so I'm ignoring most of the nonsense from that direction.

Saturday was a great leveller. Not only did we hold "the best team in Europe" to a draw, but they left the pitch in tatters having been denied a winner by VAR (karma's a bitch, eh RS?) and seen their ever-present centre half limp off for a long spell on the sidelines. As has been said, they've had more than their fair share of luck with long-term injuries so - with sympathy to VVD for his personal misfortune - suck it up and welcome to our world. These things happen.

Let's see if our lads are mentally strong enough to deal with this flack - I want to see them tackling hard on Sunday at Soton - and let's hope this minor setback genuinely has left the RS sleepless and distraught, because their over-reaction to losing a player for a few months could well destroy their season.

Dave White
64 Posted 21/10/2020 at 12:19:58
And personally I don’t see why the club should make a comment. The referee’s role is to officiate, not Everton FC. For me to comment, or worse yet, issue an apology, would confirm our role as subordinates
Mike Price
65 Posted 21/10/2020 at 12:21:41
They are long time masters of playing the long game. They highlight things before, during and after games in order to get future decisions. The media bias has just amplified their influence.
We never seem to get a grip of this particular dark art and our media representation in Osman and Cahill never plant any seeds for our future benefit, or highlight any of their misdeeds either. They’d probably lose their jobs if they did.
Tony Shelby
66 Posted 21/10/2020 at 12:31:00
LFC are becoming the Donald Trump of football clubs.

They expect adoration for anything remotely positive and respond with hysteria and childlike behaviour when things don't go their way.

Ian Burns
67 Posted 21/10/2020 at 12:33:48
Lyndon, you have written some terrific, informative articles over the years, most, if not all, worthy of national journalism. However, this article sir, is possibly the best of the lot. Take a bow. Like some have indicated in this thread, I only wish it could be read nationally. Sky, Talkshite and the BBC would do for starters.
Derek Knox
68 Posted 21/10/2020 at 12:35:17
Mike @ 65, I obviously want us to win every game, but I would consider it a Pyrrhic Victory if it came by way of blatant wrongful decisions, and especially if it was in the manner of being because of being a Media Darling.

A protected Species? It should be the same for every team on the field of play, whether it be Premiership or from the lower tiers, in the case of a Cup Tie.

Tony Abrahams
69 Posted 21/10/2020 at 12:37:41
There is a bigger picture though, because this injustice has happened to a lot of clubs, and only Hawkeye said sorry, for what turned out keeping Villa, in the EPL, because neither the ref or his assistant in the VAR studio opened their mouths at all.

We have been defensive simply because we have had to be, facing this media onslaught, but Troy Deeney called it right, because these referees are never questioned in public about their actions, and this can’t be right.

What’s worse, a player injuring an opponent unintentionally, or a player deceiving both his opponent and the ref, because he had a right to go down?

We all know the answer, let’s see the powers that be come down hard on cheating, first of all.

Bob Parrington
70 Posted 21/10/2020 at 12:42:18

I so enjoyed your pouring out of emotion in this article. I am sure most of us on ToffeeWeb will be in total agreement with what you have written.

Not only is it emotional but it is also grounded in factual details that highlight bias in the media and the press in particular.

Personally, I am sheltered from the shit press in UK by living in Australia and I feel for fellow TWebbers in UK at having to put up with the absolute Red Shite Centric idiots in the UK papers. We have a similar set of vibes in the AFL here.

You do a great job in bringing to us all great subject matter. Thank you for this.

I have one message for Klipperty and the other RS dickbrains and that it (succinctly) "Fuck Off"!

Bob Parrington
71 Posted 21/10/2020 at 12:45:59
Goops, no edit allowance
Last Para - That "is" (succinctly)
Jerome Shields
72 Posted 21/10/2020 at 12:47:50
This article describes the incredible Media bias that surrounded this Derby.

One can only conclude that Everton progressing is treated with automatic 'How dare they!' and there is somethings wrong with the Rules and they needed changed or the Ref is at fault and action should be taken against him.

This was the same type of aftermath to the Penalty and Niasse supposed dive, both resulting rule changes.

I noticed the Red Echo in a headline suggested that Ancelotti had raised the prospect of competition from Olsen for Pickford. It would take a big stretch of the imagination to get that out of what they reported.

There seems to be a concerted effort of negative media reports again at Everton.

Si Cooper
73 Posted 21/10/2020 at 12:50:58
As good as it is this article won’t convert any of their berserk mob. However, I’m grateful to Lyndon for calling out some of the absurdities.
I’d hoped Carragher’s balanced view would prevail but if Wijnaldum and Klopp’s hyperbole was not challenged then the media really is plumbing new depths. I am genuinely worried that the continued hype about these competitively characteristic / personally uncharacteristic incidents will lead to genuine tragedy.
I’m not sure it helps to suggest Jordan Pickford was attempting to give something back for Van Dijk’s early fouls. Surely he wouldn’t have had the time to work out it was any particular player and decide he was going to exact some revenge? It was just a close quarters ‘ball and all’ challenge on an opponent that completely missed the ball and unfortunately caused more injury than he would ever have intended.
Jerome Shields
74 Posted 21/10/2020 at 12:51:24

I think you are right it want we all need to do.Absolutely!

Mike Price
75 Posted 21/10/2020 at 12:54:48
I’d love nothing more than a level playing field but sometimes you have to fight fire with fire.
I read that Joe Royle in his good natured way used to ask the referee in the tunnel at Anfield, “Are both teams playing to the same rules today, ref?” Subtle, but planting the seed not to be biased and influenced by the crowd.
We’re amateurs, they’re masters. Hopefully Ancoletti will change the dynamic.
Gerry Quinn
76 Posted 21/10/2020 at 12:58:25
Now THIS must have hurt.
Tony Shelby
77 Posted 21/10/2020 at 12:58:37
Maybe a case of Bitter Reds...?!
Bob Parrington
78 Posted 21/10/2020 at 12:59:34
Mike Price@51. Perfect. I recall the early Fifties when we were almost friends ( with school mates) with the Liverpool supporters. Not these days. Shit, my daughter has married one. Of course, he's never been anywhere near Liverpool. I asked her if I should divorce her (Ha Ha!)

Si, well said!

Bob Parrington
80 Posted 21/10/2020 at 13:06:56
Raj?" Red or Blue?
Craig Harrison
81 Posted 21/10/2020 at 13:10:24
Strange how the media are talking about this incident and distracting from the lockdown. Taking focus away from liberties lost and business going bankrupt. Almost as if the media is being used to shift focus isn't it.
Raj Parbat
82 Posted 21/10/2020 at 13:10:51
Brilliant article Lyndon, summed up perfectly.

Have been so annoyed by the bias media coverage that I have been reading & listening to since last Saturday so I've sent the link to the article to BBC, Sky & Talkshite, hope others can do the same, we need to get it out there & let them know how we feel.

Derek Knox
83 Posted 21/10/2020 at 13:13:56
Bob @ 80, Could be part of the Raj Quartet by Paul Scott. :-)
Charles Barrow
84 Posted 21/10/2020 at 13:14:07
Great article!

What worries me is the hysteria shown by Klopp and his entourage and the media frenzy may well have serious implications for players safety and the safety of ordinary Evertonians. Liverpool 'fans' are being encouraged to show their rage and some may react violently. I know I've had to tell a few to calm down!

Tom Bowers
85 Posted 21/10/2020 at 13:31:16
It's been a year full of controversies, Trump, Covid, black lives matter and sporting events as usual but we have to move on. Social media is the platform for everyone to voice an opinion or make false accusations.

So much is being said and the derby match has once again brought out the worst in some people. RS and their fans were still smarting from the Villa thrashing and thought beating Everton would be the perfect cure for bouncing back. They almost did it against ten men Everton but VAR proved otherwise. One can understand them being pissed. Tough but get over it !!
They probably resent Everton still being top of the table.

Whilst it won't be forgotten for a while we should move on to the next game which will be equally as tough.

Jay Wood

86 Posted 21/10/2020 at 13:40:48
A fine piece Lyndon.

That said, I find myself leaning to Brian Harrison @ 38 that we ourselves are helping to feed into the media frenzy by continuing to create new threads on the subject.

For me, last Saturday's events have put into sharp focus two things:

1) The poverty of football punditry.

2) The poverty of football journalism.

I could add a third and say it also highlights (as if further evidence was needed) the disproportionate representation of one particular club in both 'professions'.

It doesn't need to be like this.

Only yesterday, four days after the event, did we finally see some excellent pundity on the Pickford incident from former England goalkeeper Robert Green.

Robert Green on Pickford Incident

(Note: this link works for UK based viewers. Overseas viewers can access it if they have a VPN).

Now all media outlets have access to the same images as Green uses for his analysis. But until yesterday, none had played it back and offered the very sound analysis as Green presents.

Why not?

It clearly shows Jordan's thought process in the nano-seconds available to him in a high speed play. That he was not wreckless or malicious in his intent. That he actually gets good contact on the ball.

It was a football incident which happens every weekend. Two committed players going for the same ball. In the majority of cases, both come out of it fine. On Saturday, VVD didn't.

That's football. That's life. Ask Blues about it.

Green's analysis is the standard of punditry all media outlets should strive for and demand from all their 'rent-a-gobs'.

However, I won't hold my breath. The media wants to generate controversy as click bait for a hungry audience not concerned with the nuances. The ranting and outraged are preferred to the balanced and studious.

Then you have the narrative and headlines the media is running with. It is very interesting to note this morning that yesterday's headline on Sky Sports for the Green analysis has changed today.

Yesterday, it was 'Green: Pickford Was Out of Control'.

Today, it is simply: 'Analysis: 'Pickford's collision with Van Dijk'.

Green said nothing of the sort that 'Pickford was out of control'. The headline was a complete misportrayal of his studied analysis. But it helped perpetuate the indignant narrative all media have run with since the game.

Yesterday a number of tabloid 'Red Tops' (oh, the irony...) run a story on their back pages that both Pickford and Richy (and their families) have received death threats and many abusive messages. That was a direct consequence of the media frenzy the journos and pundits themselves created.

Also yesterday in a presser you had both the Liverpool manager and Wijnaldum further stoking the fires, unchallenged.

Where was the journo to stand up and ask either of them:

'Do you condemn the behaviour of Liverpool supporters making death threats and posting abusive messages to both Pickford and Richarlison?

'And if you do condemn that behaviour, do you not think it is irresponsible of you to continue to stoke the fires, rather than douse the flames, accept what has happened and move on?'

But they won't. They will all be too afraid of losing their press credentials and continued access to the sage of Liverpool FC.

Carlo will be asked about the incidents of last Saturday in this week's presser, I'm sure.

I for one am looking forward to his laconic replies and how he responds.

Andrew Clare
87 Posted 21/10/2020 at 13:41:55
The internet has changed the world in the way that we work and communicate. It’s a great asset to us all.
Unfortunately there is a downside. Populist politicians are taking great advantage of it spreading daft ideas and falsehoods. Ridiculous cults are also using it to attract the not too clever to their beliefs. The public at large are airing their views without thinking them through before posting.
The result of all this is that we have wacky people with wacky ideas in positions of power.Children bullying one another with text messages and purveyors of daft ideas all over the web etc etc.
So it’s inevitable that major sporting events get dragged into this craziness.
In our case the derby.
We all know that Pickford’s challenge was mis-timed and reckless but it wasn’t malicious. Richarlison’s challenge was just rash. Let’s leave it at that.
Eddie Dunn
88 Posted 21/10/2020 at 13:57:10
Thanks for the Green link Jay -very interesting.
Rob Halligan
89 Posted 21/10/2020 at 13:58:09
If Pickford intended to injure Van Dijk, as many have said (not on here I might add), exactly what benefit would it have been to him, other than getting sent off while also giving a penalty away and possibly costing his team the game? FFS, Pickford may be thick but I don't think he's stupid enough to think "Fuck the consequences, I'm going to take Van Dijk out at all costs". As far as I know, there has been no previous between the two, so what motivation would Pickford have had to injure Van Dijk? None whatsoever, it was just plain clumsy, nothing else.
Peter Dodds
90 Posted 21/10/2020 at 14:00:29
Excellent read, thanks. My only way of understanding the reaction from the Reds and the media is to believe that they are in a state of grief, now that their beloved VVD is unable to grace the field of play for the next six months. To be fair he is a very good player and Player of the Year in some or other capacity, and a lot of people have enjoyed his performances. Right now these people are still very firmly in the anger and denial phases - 'Pickford should be banned!", and "We can't accept that he's gone for this length of time!". Sooner rather than later, I hope, we'll reach acceptance of the situation. Unfortunately that's when depression may kick in - especially if they lose a few more games, which no doubt will be down to one factor and one factor alone - the loss of Van Dijk! And then the anger will re-emerge.

I can't help think this is a lose-lose for Everton - either the Reds will win without him (and think how unbearable they'd be after that); or else they won't, and guess who'll continue to be blamed for that for ever more?

Jack Convery
91 Posted 21/10/2020 at 14:35:38
That's an award winning piece Lyndon. No Bull just plain simple facts. eloquently put and evidence to back it up. No reasonable person reading that could argue with it. I was wondering when you would publish something about the hysterical over reaction to the Derby and by god it was worth waiting for. I sincerely hope it goes national as it deserves. Thanks for putting into words what we all feel. Thank You.

I posted this on another thread yesterday but I reckon its real place is here.

One whom Fortune's smiles have delighted overmuch, will reel under the shock of change.

Horace, Epistles I, x.30-33.

Jamie Crowley
92 Posted 21/10/2020 at 14:45:24
Simply fantastic writing. Thank you, Lyndon.

The truth really lays things quite bare, hey?

The reaction from them is so sensationalist, so dramatic, and so out of touch with reality in what REALLY occurred, it's frankly shocking and unbelievable.

Or is it?

Kieran Kinsella
93 Posted 21/10/2020 at 14:55:14
I would rest James next time we play them otherwise Henderson will whip out a samurai sword and decapitate him. Then we'll hear from Souness "He's not that kind of player, it's a contact sport, bla bla bla, heart attack, TheSun, my divorce, Mo Johnston, I was hard done by at Torino, bla bla bla."
John McFarlane Snr
94 Posted 21/10/2020 at 14:58:57
Hi Lyndon, an excellent article but unless it's read by the most important people in football [fellow supporters of teams outside of the so-called top six.] I feel however that we will carry the stigma of being a dirty team. I have no way of proving my opinion, but I believe that referees have conversations along the following lines, Referee A to referee B. "If you ever get club X watch out for so-and so". With the Pickford/ Van Dyke incident I feel that the seeds have ben sown by the adverse publicity in print and on radio/TV, and Everton will be classed as a dirty team by people outside of the game, but hopefully the football fraternity will see it for what it is.
Nicholas Ryan
95 Posted 21/10/2020 at 15:22:55
Has anyone in 'Fleet Street' noticed, that Gerard Deulofeu is currently recovering from a ruptured Anterior Cruciate Ligament injury, resulting from a tackle by erm. erm . somebody called. err... Virgil Van Dijk!
Bill Gall
96 Posted 21/10/2020 at 15:37:18
My thoughts on Liverpool FC ------------------------ that's it not worth thinking about
Rob Halligan
97 Posted 21/10/2020 at 15:46:33
Come on now Bill. You shouldn't think that highly of them.
Derek Knox
98 Posted 21/10/2020 at 16:01:27
Asif I need to rub any salt into what is already an open wound, I have recalled another incident which didn't actually involve any of our players being injured, but was another example of their vitriol towards us.

When they won the Champion's League, that was not enough for them, they had to deface St Rupert's Tower with graffiti. Not once but twice! I don't think anyone has mentioned this on this thread, but if they have and I have missed it, I apologise.

Mat Smith
99 Posted 21/10/2020 at 16:01:31
Red shite fans are all turning on Jamie Carragher now on social media – YNWA until you disagree with what the fans think lol

Have to admit I got a very small bit of respect for Carragher after his comments to Souness

Tony Abrahams
100 Posted 21/10/2020 at 16:19:43
Got to be worth a bet tonight Ajax, playing against a team whose players haven’t slept properly since Saturday night!
Lyndon Lloyd
101 Posted 21/10/2020 at 16:21:38
Brian (38), Jay (86), I nearly didn't post this and was content to have just had my say with a few level-headed reds on Twitter but as the media hysteria has continued, I just wanted to get it off my chest for readers here. (I didn't post the link out on TW's Twitter for that reason – I didn't expect the Echo to pick it up the way they have but if it helps counter the general media narrative, then fine.)

The media's response is really what got me and I know it shouldn't but the way all kinds of issues are dealt with by TV and the press these days irks me! Liverpool fans are going to be partisan and, perhaps, irrationally so just like some of us can be so while I gave them a reminder of what their players have got up to in derbies over the years, I just wanted to vent about the media as well!

Kieran Kinsella
102 Posted 21/10/2020 at 16:31:41
Remember too when Sergio Ramos was the devil for pulling Salah over? That turned into a world wide witch hunt
Brian Harrison
103 Posted 21/10/2020 at 16:40:12

I think we all feel the same anger specifically at the media, all I was saying is are we feeding the debate by having so many posts all discussing the same subject. I am sure that Carlo being the ultimate professional he is, will try and defuse the situation, when undoubtedly he will be asked questions about the derby match. I hope he says it was unfortunate that VVD has picked up a bad injury and wishes the lad a speedy recovery, mind knowing the media they will want to create tension between the clubs so will no doubt ask Carlo does he think Pickford should have had a red card.

Ken Kneale
104 Posted 21/10/2020 at 16:40:38
Lyndon - as usual spot - on. it is true Liverpool fans will have a different view than us as we have in reverse fo a long period on many incidents but the media hypocrisy is sad to see and worrying for the game of football. I think you are being modest about yourself here - this article needs distributed to the national media till one or more publications see fit to provide the balanced coverage that should be provided. How can the BBC can be so one sided when funded by the taxpayer?
Colin Bell
105 Posted 21/10/2020 at 16:41:58
Possibly one of the best pieces of sports journalism for a long time. It should be required reading for all the supposed journalists and pundits that feel qualified to comment on football. I believe the club should read it and use it as the basis to counter this posturing by LFC, their fans and the media. Comparisons with the Andre Gomes incident and many others are not without foundation.

The challenge by Pickford was a poor one but is there any sensible suggestion that it was his intention to injure? What was he supposed to do? Stand back and allow VVD a ‘tap in?’ Serious injury to any pro footballer is always regrettable but this hysteria is beyond belief.

Well done Lyndon. We should all ensure that the article is afforded its rightful place in the debate. COYB.

Jamie Crowley
106 Posted 21/10/2020 at 16:42:21
The media's response is really what got me and I know it shouldn't but the way all kinds of issues are dealt with by TV and the press these days irks me!

God I've never agreed with any sentence more in my life.

It's permeating sports, never mind it's completely taken over "mainstream" news. There's zero objectivity. Only clickbait for money, and agenda-driven, partisan reporting. So sad.

Tony Abrahams
107 Posted 21/10/2020 at 16:52:19
I’d love Carlo Ancelotti to say what Rob Halligan said in post@89. Pre-meditated, some of the press have even said, whilst Klopp insinuates that he’s seen bad injuries before, but it’s usually when two players are going for the ball?

Silence is golden i’m aware of that, but some of the absolute shite and unadulterated hatred coming our way, from anyone but Liverpudlians, (this is quite normal, isn’t it?) really is bizarre.

Imagine Ancelotti saying, I was gutted with the decision really, because I told Pickford to go and give away a penalty, and get himself sent off, it’s not my fault the referee never saw it that way.

Dale Self
108 Posted 21/10/2020 at 16:55:14
First off, I love the new look. That the media is deployed in such a heavy-handed way is a symptom of the leveraged money clubs desperately needing to keep their places for their gamble to pay off. I think this is a good reason to continually acknowledge these things happen in football and simply turn the discussion back toward the amazing results that have unfolded thus far this season.
Mike Gaynes
109 Posted 21/10/2020 at 16:55:38
At the risk of asking a stupid question -- actually, it's not a risk, it's a certainty -- is it possible that all this media hysteria is actually as much or more about Van Dijk himself than it is about his being RS?

We understandably assume that these pundits are acting as Liverpool shills, but let's also remember that sports journos and pundits are, first and foremost, always besotted with superstar players. Justifiably or not (and in my opinion, not), VVD was ranked last year as the second best footballer on the planet, coming ridiculously close to outpolling Messi for the Ballon d'Or.

Could it be that all this frenzy is more connected to his superstar status? Wouldn't we be seeing the same media madness in Spanish for a similar injury to Messi? Or in German for Lewandowski?

I may be off base here, but while I don't doubt the pro-Liverpool slant of the UK footy media, I have a hard time believing that that alone accounts for all this insanity. Seems to me the shirt-rending grief and rage is exaggerated by VVD's perceived status in the game.

Ian Bennett
110 Posted 21/10/2020 at 16:57:47
We always knew there was a hidden agenda and an anti Everton bias in the media, this episode has illustrated it brilliantly.

We don't have one ex player that represents us with any profile. Too frequently Sky or BT have 3 or 4, us nothing. We are an uninteresting club that has injured a star player of an elite club.

Liverpool had every reason to dominate again this season, and with injuries to the keeper and Matip, and a lack of foresight in replacing Lovren its being ruined. Diddums.

John Keating
111 Posted 21/10/2020 at 16:58:30
Kieran 102
I was just going to post that cracker!
I laughed about that at the time. They wanted Ramos and Real banned forever and every European after given to them with a 3-0 win!
Brilliant stuff!!
However this one is even funnier!
It’s nit just banning they're calling for the death penalty
John Raftery
112 Posted 21/10/2020 at 16:59:00
Martin (15) I have just replayed the BT footage of the incident and its extended aftermath. It shows the right knee took the weight of the challenge and it was the right knee which the physio treated on the pitch.

Mike Gaynes
113 Posted 21/10/2020 at 17:01:17
Kieran #102, let's be clear about this. Sergio Ramos is the devil.
Jamie Crowley
114 Posted 21/10/2020 at 17:04:08
Mike -

I think it's probably a combination of the two.

It's definite rs slant bull. But the fact VVD is a "superstar", it heightens the response.

And I personally think VVD is a stupid good footballer, and football as a whole lost a damn good player. But that shit happens, and to vilify Pickford for the unfortunate outcome is just plain "blinders on, here's my narrative" garbage, ignoring what actually occurred: a hard tackle that any keeper is trained to do while coming out for a ball an protecting his box, that resulted in injury. It was not intentional, there was no intent to injure, and the hysteria is just insane.

They've seriously just lost their fucking minds, and they can't see straight.

Gerry Quinn
115 Posted 21/10/2020 at 17:13:47
Lyndon, I agree with all that you have written a truly fabulous piece on this topic - well done, we should nominate you to be the voice of Everton FC for dealing with the media for them
Peter Warren
116 Posted 21/10/2020 at 17:20:39
Think if this happened to that Croatian guy they used to have there wouldn’t be the mass hysteria. It’s the fact they they lost VVD and got a last minute winner disallowed that has irked them so much.

Personally, I’m not against the hysteria infact I am welcoming it - I think it’s hilarious - even better not Wijnaldum come out with an outburst a few days later!

John Keating
117 Posted 21/10/2020 at 17:22:43
Gerry the voice of Everton FC is actually Liverpool FC
Apart from the full spectrum of the media the average supporter of every club in the land is laughing their heads off at these idiots
If a vote were taken I bet our neighbours would be the most detested club, far and away more than their “biggest game of the season”
Let the halfwits keep it going the hatred for them will just increase
It gives The Spirit if Shankly another project to take on
Jerome Shields
118 Posted 21/10/2020 at 17:24:46
Lyndon #101

It's better to call out the conduct of the hostile media and pundits assertions for what it is.A blatant attempt to project false unfairness and manipulate perception.The authorities have given the correct response and honest pundits have called out the hipocrites.

Another reason is that Everton appears the target of such attacks and not for the first time.If Related media don't then it will go unaddressed and the lies would continue and may have adverse effects on Everton.

John Pierce
119 Posted 21/10/2020 at 17:32:56
It’s a superb piece Lyndon. It’s truly is a man on a mission and venting his spleen in a controlled journalistic blaze of ‘wordsmithery’.

However, I’m simply over it all. It’s time we stopped feeding the beast, c’mon folks for those who have been around long enough this is just the same old story repeating itself through more modern mediums, there are ways to keep it from consuming your every waking minute.

Let them lose focus and let us concentrate on who will replace Richarlison and will Pickford be dropped for his appalling lack of form.

Everton, to their credit have kept their counsel and seem focused on the next game. If we want some sort of comeuppance then whilst they ‘simper in the wind’ how about we win at Southampton and hammer home our early advantage. Put the pressure firmly on the red half.

This is the crux, we have through a significant amount of breaks that have gone our way, the chance to capitalize on the next 6 weeks as we play once a week and others have a congested fixture list and weakened sides.

Let’s focus on us and making a massive impact this season rather than being drawn into a circus. Really do we care about them?

Jack Convery
120 Posted 21/10/2020 at 17:44:36
My final lines on this subject. Usually in a Derby when a tackle considered over the top happens the opposition red and blue crowd the ref and the pushing and shoving starts. There was none of that when VVD was injured. No moaning at the ref no red card signals from the LFC players in fact no melee at all. Yet apparently at half time Rabod Robbo tells us the rest of the lads said it was a wild tackle and derserved a red card. Me thinks that only when Jurgen told them he thought it was serious did they get angry and the rest is history or hysterics depending on your point of view.
Paul Thomas
121 Posted 21/10/2020 at 17:55:05
Great piece Lyndon.

I was the lucky recipient of a text including photo from a friend who is a liverpool fan. The picture showed a freeze frame of Richarlison's tackle and the words 'The School of Science'. I obviously took the bait but was less eloquent and didn't have the same facts to hand that you had.

With this in mind, can you produce your articles quicker or I will have to bight my tongue in future.

What surprised me was the speed that many fans who don't follow those loveable reds jumped on the band wagon.

Si Cooper
122 Posted 21/10/2020 at 17:59:31
Mike G (109) - there could be something in that but at the same time I would say the ‘myth’ of VVD largely comes from the fact that he is viewed as their lynchpin or talisman, the player who finally got them to the Prem title.
He is good, but is he really as good as some say? I really can’t say on the viewings I’ve had. On those I wouldn’t say he is obviously better than any other CB.
He’s obviously an impressive physical specimen and a talented footballer but if they had better options left than Matip and Gomez then I wouldn’t expect them to be throwing in the towel just because VVD is injured.
That may be the issue; he really is that important to them, hence the hysteria from all those who care more for LFC than any other team.
I think central defence is a rapidly evolving position as the lanky lads are now a much more normalised group and less likely to be particularly unco-ordinated (a broad stereotype I know but I think there is truth in it). I think our own Jarrod Branthwaite is an example, and I hope for great things from him.
Jay Harris
123 Posted 21/10/2020 at 18:00:35
You didnt have much to beat but thats the best bit of Journalism I have seen on the subject and I echo my fellow ToffeeWebbers appreciation of your literary talent.

You have summed up our experiences at their hands so well and professionally not once resorting to the poor insomniacs insane rantings of injustice.

Lets just hope Ajax are capable of rubbing salt in the wounds tonight.

Mike Price
124 Posted 21/10/2020 at 18:06:43
On the tackle itself, in real time it didn’t look bad and that’s why there was a muted on pitch reaction.
It’s only in slow motion and still photographs that it’s a clear red. It’s certainly no worse than the Ben Mee challenge for Burnley against Villa in January, that had the same outcome of no cards, after the VAR review, but the same ACL injury. don’t you remember all the outcry in the media!
Gerry Quinn
125 Posted 21/10/2020 at 18:23:08
...and, Lyndon, don't forget to menytion the Red Card rescinded for Rodwell, meaning he was considered chuffing innocent wrt Suarez diving
Kim Vivian
126 Posted 21/10/2020 at 18:38:27
It's a good job they lost 7-2 to Villa just before they played us rather than the week after, or we would be getting the blame for that as well.
Chris Woods
127 Posted 21/10/2020 at 18:48:56
Great article but it’s time for Pickford to be dropped, he should have been sent off and these threads would have been a lot different if we would have been down to ten men after 10 mins and probably 2-0 down. God knows what the score would have been at the end
Darren Hind
128 Posted 21/10/2020 at 18:54:52
Been dying to see this article.

I actually heard about it this morning from Kopites - They deffo don't like it up them.

You only have to read the responses on this thread (and I've read them all) to gauge how well it captures the feelings of Evertonians Everywhere

Thank you Lyndon.

Brian Williams
129 Posted 21/10/2020 at 18:57:02
Chris. If, if,if.
You can't make decisions on ifs.
Si Cooper
130 Posted 21/10/2020 at 19:15:33
Chris, why ‘probably 2-0 down’? It wouldn’t have been a penalty even if JP was sent off because Van Dijk was offside so the ball was dead at that point.
The only debating point on that incident is whether JP should have received a card and what colour. The VAR ref and Oliver appear to have said they were satisfied at the time that it didn’t warrant a sending off and the authorities have accepted that.
The only thing that is now outstanding is the revelation of how long VVD will be out for. They must have a good assessment of the injury and how the surgery went. Is there any further news on that. If not, why not? Could it be that the injury isn’t as bad as some have said but they don’t want the outrage to subside just yet?
Dave Ganley
131 Posted 21/10/2020 at 19:22:01
Embarrassing is spot on. Not content with trying to pull a fast one with the "big 6" last week, they well I'm not sure what you could call the derby fallout, bratish behaviour? Its a bit like the girl on Just William, I didn't get my own way so I'll scream and scream and scream till I'm sick! They're still at it now! Have to say I've had a lot of fun ridiculing them on social media. Then they come out with this European super league. As many others have said, good fuck off you won't be missed.

They also tried this pantomime albeit with less media hype against Ramos after the CL final when Salah got injured. Embarrassing then and even more so now.
Ta very much for letting the country finally understand on a large scale what utter gobshites you really are. Cant even celebrate winning the league for the first time in 30 years without trying to trash the city centre.

Hope the bastards implode. The rest of football will take great delight in watching it happen. Vile football club, vile owners and absolute gobshite fans.

Peter Mills
132 Posted 21/10/2020 at 19:24:02
I sent the article to a red friend, a thoughtful, intelligent guy, as an eloquent plea for some perspective.

He has refused to read it.

David Greenwood
133 Posted 21/10/2020 at 19:27:02
Fantastic article Lyndon.

Sums up our feelings perfectly.

Rob Halligan
134 Posted 21/10/2020 at 19:30:50
Peter # 132, why is that then, because he can't stand the truth?
Chris Leyland
135 Posted 21/10/2020 at 19:32:45
I’ve found this article and the comments cathartic.

I’ve been fuming since the game because of the reactions of their gobshite manager, their gobshite players and their gobshite fans.

I’ve been getting into Twitter arguments with them and pointing out many of the things you’ve raise in this article but now I’m going to stop and take a step back.

Why? Because I’ve realised that the hysterical and pathetic overreaction is just them. It’s what they are and it’s how they behave. It’s just typical Kopite behaviour.

Peter Mills
136 Posted 21/10/2020 at 19:51:00
Rob#134, he felt it would be an anti-Liverpool supporter article presented in a reasonable and logical way. I think it IS a reasonable and logical piece, not anti-Liverpool per se, just adding some antidote to the hysteria.

I’m not criticising my pal, he’s a very good mate. But I was taken aback by his refusal. Mind you, he might counter that I have occasionally been jaundiced in my views!

Chris Woods
137 Posted 21/10/2020 at 19:51:14
Si fair enough but for what it’s worth I don’t think it was offside, but the point I was trying to make is that Pickford has become a liability and I don’t give a flying one about van dyke but we need to stop defending Pickford it was an awful challenge and could have easily cost us again
Paul Chaloner
138 Posted 21/10/2020 at 19:55:31
An excellent article. We can all add our own injustices to the wagon. Ripped short at Anfield yet no penalty, anichebe pulled for a none existent foul when we scored the winner at which would have given Moyes that away derby victory. Until the media changes it won’t change and that goes with the way the media manipulates the country as well. No chance!
Si Cooper
139 Posted 21/10/2020 at 20:07:27
Chris, I haven’t defended Pickford for the challenge at any point except to say I really doubt he intended any serious injury.
I’m surprised you think this incident wasn’t offside; I didn’t think there was any debate on that. Are you sure you are not conflating this with the one in the build up to Henderson’s goal that seemed much more marginal and debatable because Mané is actually moving away from goal and so doesn’t gain an actual advantage from his position?
Bill Gall
140 Posted 21/10/2020 at 20:10:30
I was like other supporters and wondered why Everton are not making a statement on all this vitriol from pundits and other illiterate nobodies and then thought why should they. The 3 major talking points were taken care of by the officials, Pickfords tackle no card no action taken no problem. The Richarleson tackle was bad the referee gave a red card no problem they excepted it. The Henderson goal, the officials looked at it no goal no problem.

So looking back at it Everton are above this sort of behavior so to put it in a song. Silence Is Golden.

Stephen Vincent
141 Posted 21/10/2020 at 20:19:12
Just watched Fabinho go in studs up against a young Ajax forward. No foul given according to Macmanaman nothing in it. Young lad is off injured. And so it goes on!
Craig Walker
142 Posted 21/10/2020 at 20:25:45
The only favourable decision I can recall is a Goodison derby under Moyes when we were 2 down but got it back to 2-2. Suarez scored at the Gwladys Street end at the death to make it 2-3 but it was chalked off, probably incorrectly.There was the penalty DCL got at their place under Allardyce which Rooney scored. There followed a week of their agents across the media explaining how it wasn’t a penalty.

The two nasty challenges from us I can think of are Gary Stevens on Beglin and Funes Mori on Origi.

Paul Smith
143 Posted 21/10/2020 at 20:27:44
Great article. It’s time to come together as Evertonians and feel good about our team, club and selves. Doesn’t it feel good to be a blue again. I’m right behind Pickford now, I feel compelled to back him by the ‘hate in’ aimed at him by the media, pundits and horrible bullies that are the RS fans. It serves to make us stronger. If Liverpool fail this season we will be blamed and they will hate us again, we will no longer be irrelevant and laughed at, we will be feared again our time is coming, enjoy everybody!
Chris Woods
144 Posted 21/10/2020 at 20:45:39
Si, No I’m not conflating anything I didn’t think either of them was offside, as a self confessed bitter blue I’ve enjoyed listening to all the rednecks whining I just think we need to concentrate on ourselves and Pickford is a problem that needs sorting
Paul Birmingham
145 Posted 21/10/2020 at 20:47:30
Great article Lyndon. The truths of the past are always easily forgotten by a media heavily prejudiced by bitter ex RS. Further more than BBC news presenters who’ve got no knowledge of the Derby.

There’s as you stated and we’ve mentioned on various TW articles about the tackles and Shenanigans of the RS in the last 50 years of Derbies.

Well I hope Ajax can reverse the current score and beat them tonight.

Onwards Evertonians, to victory at Soton.

Alastair Donaldson
146 Posted 21/10/2020 at 20:50:53
A wise philosopher once said scroll to bottom..

My LFC friends, all pretty moderate I think, have gone mental this week, to my great amusement.

I'll be saending them this article..excellent read.

In reflecting about when (in my 53yrs) EFC have been in any way successful, mid-80s, mid-90s, the one common theme I see is a real hard element within the team. VDH, Stevens, Ratters, Reidy, Sharpy most prominent, then Parkinson, Watson, Horne... without that grit and willingness to scrap, you can't win...and we plainly haven't. We've for so long been so nice, so willing to turn the other cheek and just take it. Nice little Everton, not a threat to anyone, least of all the big boys.

I seriously hope what emerges from where we are now is a consistent willingness to physically compete and "win the right to play"... anyone who's ever won consistently has done this.

The current world gloom and vacuum of any news other than Covid and the flippin US election means there's been far more interest in this particular game than is necessary...these things do just's FOOTBALL..

Without much effort at all, I reeled off a dirty dozen plus bench of RS who, for various reasons, wouldn't look out of place in a police line-up and hardly showed a "good example" to anyone resembling a decent, honest, fair human being, try these...

Grobelaar, Neal, Smith, Ruddock, Dix, Whelan, Molby, Case, Gerrard, Kuyt, Djiouf, Suarez, Souness, McMahon (ok he was ours originally), Yeats, Hughes... a few get a good mention above!

It's just too much media... and very few independent observers without vested interest.

"calm down, calm down"

Ernie Baywood
147 Posted 21/10/2020 at 20:51:49
For me, it's time to move on and look to Southampton.

I do, though, like a little reminder every now and then of how fortunate I was to be chosen. I couldn't deal with my club (and community) resounding this way. I'm sure there are some normal reds fans who are ashamed of the public outcry.

Bill Gienapp
148 Posted 21/10/2020 at 21:03:37
All of Lyndon's pieces are exemplary, but this one in particular should be in the Louvre.

I particularly wish Wijnaldum would be forced to read it - and account for it - after his embarrassing comments.

Seb Niemand
149 Posted 21/10/2020 at 21:40:40
Pickford is the perfect illustration of why one should never ascribe to malice what can sufficiently be explained by incompetence.
John Pendleton
150 Posted 21/10/2020 at 21:48:54
Jack (120) and Mike (124) an excellent observation - at the time of the incident - in a derby no less - the lack of reaction from any LFC player speaks volumes of where fellow professional footballers who witnessed it first hand saw the incident in terms of malice or intent. Watching live I thought nothing more than 'Pickford, you tit' for unnecessarily risking a penalty. Dodged a bullet there. Lucky to stay on and no penalty! What is this thing you call good fortune?

VVD walked off unassisted. At that point, the only 'story' was no penalty/no card. At 89 mins the headline writers were poised to pen an 'honours even' piece, adding the mandatory early bath sub-header at 90 mins. Just 3 minutes later of course, 'the story' turned to the VAR-assisted chalked-off injury time 'winner'. The (ahem) big picture story finally appeared much later with the confirmation of VVD's lay off.

So how did an everyday footballing incident escalate to such a media storm and ultimately threats on players' lives?

Responsibility for fanning the flames is shared between BT mouthpieces, mainstream media, social media, Klopp, Wijnaldum, VVD's 'final piece of the title-winning jigsaw' status, the powerful, the rich, Tony Hibbert, the repeated use of the slow-mo loop, the selective freeze-frame, the absence of other news (really?).

But the flame itself is the longstanding toxic cocktail of delusion, entitlement and superiority that makes up their collective resting heart rate. A stolen result and vital cog missing due to the enemy? Throw in this sense of football injustice, stand back and enjoy the display.

Lyndon, I salute your clarity of thought and evidence-based journalism and, on balance, I'm sure we're all thankful that you did decide to post this piece as opposed to hoping its absence may see the matter fade away!

I'm also of the opinion that EFC official should keep shtum and not get involved about another team's beef about the match officials. Stay classy Blues!

Stan Michaels
151 Posted 21/10/2020 at 22:03:56
Its clear and obvious that Liverpool football club have the media in their arse pockets. Full control in what gets said and done around the platform. Its just funny how say this was Chelsea fans sending vile abuse for example. The media would name and shame the club for everything. Football is a frustrating and emotional game. However there are sore losers. then there are Liverpool fans. They genuinely cannot take it when their team fails to win. I mean they reach a UCL final back in 2018, lose to the team that have won the trophy 2 years on the bounce at that point. Their goalkeeper and Lovren gets death threats.

Every fan base there is always the odd dickheads. But with them its always steps too far. Sort of the "spoilt brat" attitudes. But in the media and pundits eyes. They never do anything wrong. Van Dijk goes right in on James and DCL before he was injured himself. With yes man Mcmanaman claiming to "leave his mark" but then again one of many many ex Liverpool players punditry. Media don't try and hide it. Especially Sky sports and BT.

Don't get me started on that rag. The Liverpool Echo.

Laurie Hartley
152 Posted 21/10/2020 at 22:24:30
Rob Halligan # 22 - this could be the image you are looking for. Simple question who is lunging at who?
Si Cooper
153 Posted 21/10/2020 at 22:26:34
Chris (144), so you don’t simply want us to stop defending Pickford, you want us to start ripping into him? I’m happy with the Rob Green analysis (have you seen it?) that basically gives Jordan a thumbs up on his goalkeeping performance in this game so you can count me out of that witch hunt.
Rob Halligan
154 Posted 21/10/2020 at 22:36:58
Yep Laurie, that's the one. Seems to me on that image that Pickford only has one foot off the floor, with studs facing downwards, while Van Dijk also has one foot off the floor with studs showing in a dangerous position. I would like Perry Groves to see that picture and then accuse Pickford of fully intending to injure Van Dijk.

So as you say Laurie, who is lunging at who?

Dave White
155 Posted 21/10/2020 at 22:39:11
Jay mate, really appreciate the link you posted to Rob Green’s analysis. I thought at the time JP was a little unlucky with their ‘third’ goal.

Green’s look at the precise moment Henderson connected with the ball demonstrates that JP’s view was almost entirely blocked by the not insubstantial frame of Mina. He has to essentially guess where the ball is going. Because of this he went one handed (and overstretched) for a shot he could’ve comfortably saved with two hands, maybe even held.

As a keeper you go one handed when the ball is too far to go with two, but of course you go with half the surface area. Also, because Henderson scuffs his shot, the ball bounces just before it gets to JP, kicks up slightly and spoons off his wrist. If Henderson had hit it more cleanly it could have been an easier save.

Right I’m gonna stop the forensic keeper analysis now, but I would recommend who is calling out that ‘goal’ as an example of another JP clanger to look at what he could see at the point of contact. Rob Green’s comments are bang on.


I’m not a JP apologist, IMO he fucked up with the VVD ‘challenge,’ but I think it’s helpful for us, as viewers, to remember that we’re seeing the game from the camera’s view and not from that of the players

Oliver Molloy
156 Posted 21/10/2020 at 22:43:25
Fuck them, lets rub it up all these hypocritical idiots even more by beating Southampton this weekend.

By the way, who else can't wait for one of their players to mistime a tackle !
In my opinion Klopp is such a pretentious person that plays to the media at every opportunity he gets.

Great article Lyndon.

Anthony Dove
157 Posted 21/10/2020 at 22:46:40
We all know the injustices over the years.
The reality here is that Pickford’s action and subsequent sideshow is quite likely to seriously threaten the clubs revival after years in the wilderness. The media were right behind us as were many neutrals fed up with the established order. That is now all reversed.
If games were not behind closed doors you could not possibly play him.
With the signing of Olsen it seems the club now has four inadequate goalkeepers. Whoever
is responsible for that wants shooting.
If Carlo is going to stick with Pickford we need to replace the goalkeeping coach with a psychiatrist.

Brian Williams
158 Posted 21/10/2020 at 22:48:52
Oliver I believe one of them, although not mistiming the tackle, tackled Ajax's Kudus with studs up and Kudus had to be withdrawn injured.
Say no more.
Jay Wood

159 Posted 21/10/2020 at 22:55:55
'If games were not behind closed doors you could not possibly play him.'

Not that professional sport will be played before live spectators any time soon, but why, Anthony?

Benching Jordan now would be the very worst thing for the club, the team, the player, that Carlo could do.

VVD and Liverpool are being cast as 'the victims' in this farce.

In truth, it is Pickford and Everton who are being sullied unjustly more.

Use this as a springboard to continue our good form.

And most certainly do not go dropping the best goalkeeper at the club. That weakens us and appeases our fellow title challengers.

Tom Bowers
160 Posted 21/10/2020 at 23:07:40
Top of the league with a suspect goalie ? He's going through a sticky patch and the question is whether Carlo will keep faith in him much longer.
The lad does make some great saves as most keepers do but some of the best in the Prem. in recent years have had bad spells so what can you do, drop him ? Would that make him better? The case of Joe hart comes to mind here as he is one who has gone down in the reckoning and yet he was number one England keeper also.
At this stage Carlo could give Olsen his chance but he may wait until the Carabao cup.

The good thing is that Carlo has been instrumental in getting a lot more out of his players this season ( Jordan excepted) but Keane and DCL are different players.

The Pickford call early on and the last minute VAR were absolutely correct but the RS fans, management and certain pundits will carry this on until there is some similar incidents to rant on about.

Oliver Molloy
161 Posted 21/10/2020 at 23:08:20
Thank you for that Brian, outrageous !
The guy on the radio said that ex- Evertonian Klassen nearly scored !

I've just seen that they play Sheff Utd next who are in dire need of points, lets hope they get stuck in!

Brian Williams
162 Posted 21/10/2020 at 23:09:18
Pickford will be supported and counselled by the club to help him concentrate on training and playing games.
And that's exactly how it should be.
You don't throw your people under the bus.
You especially don't throw your people under the bus on the say so of a complete shower of gobshites!

Anthony Murphy
163 Posted 21/10/2020 at 23:24:04
Great article.

I would love to see a chapter 2 on why. Why do pundits and the media (both Liverpool alumni and those with no connection) treat them so favourably and when did this start? I appreciate the business need to play to the gallery given their global fanbase, and I also get how the existence of social media exacerbates the situation, but why are the media so keen to curry favour? The same favourable treatment does not apply to the same extent elsewhere. Sure Man U generate a lot of media coverage, and have their own army of armchair, fair-weather fans, but they aren’t given a free pass in the same way. So why is that?

Andy Crooks
164 Posted 21/10/2020 at 23:27:05
I have been very critical of Pickford but I feel totally supportive now. The tackle was clumsy with a very unlucky outcome, but not malicious. The aftermath is magnificently revealing.

It confirms that Liverpool FC, their players and many of their supporters are utterly blinded by a self regard that is beyond decency. Grown men foaming at the mouth over a sporting accident. They, and the semi articulate pundits who encourage them, are devoid of integrity and are removed from reality in a manner that is, frankly, obscene.

Christy Ring
165 Posted 21/10/2020 at 00:05:13
I still think it's a witch hunt, too many ex redshite pundits, on all channels, especially Sky, and how Souness can get away with calling it assault, should be sack able.
I do hope Carlo addresses Klopp in his press conference, for a 'friend', in his European press conference, to accuse two professional footballers of deliberately injuring his players, is an attack on EFC, and all former players writing for the Echo, resign.
Chris Woods
166 Posted 21/10/2020 at 00:05:17
Si, there’s no witch hunt if you can’t see what’s in front of your eyes then fair enough, Pickford is hot headed he done the same to deli Ali last season he doesn’t seem to be learning from his mistakes like I said in my original post if van Dyke (wrongly) hadn’t of been given offside we would have seen a completely different response on ToffeeWeb
Christy Ring
167 Posted 22/10/2020 at 00:07:22
Superb article Lyndon, and Chris Woods, are you an Everton fan??
Chris Woods
168 Posted 22/10/2020 at 00:13:35
Christy ring, yes a season ticket holder for 40 years don’t start that shit mate
Patrick McFarlane
169 Posted 22/10/2020 at 00:26:01
Chris #168
I'm sure you realise that there were many other threads about Saturday and Pickford, in which you could have aired your views, but you chose to hi-jack this superb article by Lyndon in order to put forward your dislike or mistrust of Jordan Pickford,

Many would agree with your view, but this shouldn't have been the thread to air those views, because this article was about much much more than a single incident from Saturday's game.

Chris Woods
170 Posted 22/10/2020 at 00:42:43
Patrick, that’s nonsense I haven’t hi-jacked anything I agree with everything Lyndon says
Si Cooper
171 Posted 22/10/2020 at 00:54:12
Chris (144), I see Jordan Pickford’s faults as well as you do. What I don’t see is a simple solution; if the manager chooses to keep playing him there must be a reason.
If / when you have a copper-bottomed solution please post it.
Chris Woods
172 Posted 22/10/2020 at 00:56:51
Si, I’ve got a copper-bottomed solution play the goalie he’s just signed
Si Cooper
173 Posted 22/10/2020 at 01:04:28
Chris, the manager has had that option for a number of games and hasn’t done it. Do you really think he’ll do it now?

What if the new guy actually turns out to be worse?

Kieran Kinsella
174 Posted 22/10/2020 at 01:08:46
Just embrace it. Everyone says we are villains so just accept it and move on. Get Tom Davies to nut Danny Ings on Sunday, wear TShirts of support when he gets banned.
Mike Gaynes
175 Posted 22/10/2020 at 01:17:32
Christy #167, I think you're better than that question.

But Chris #172, Si is right. Carlo sees his keepers in training, including the new guy. He picks Picks. Every time. And until we lose a game this season, I'd say Carlo's credibility is pretty solid.

Derek Thomas
176 Posted 22/10/2020 at 01:49:21
Si @ 173; "What if the new guy actually turns out to be worse" ?
He has to be of a certain minimum standard or a few somebody's need a severe arse kicking.
Therefore, if Pickford isn't hitting the minimums at the moment then the new guy must come in.

So which is it? Pickford doesn't have his VVD & Henderson moments...but this also means he doesn't make those 3 or 4 saves he did make which had 'goal' all over them.

Ancelotti is playing the overall percentage game...until Pickford gets injured or totally loses it in a West / Keflavik manner... he's in ahead of the Olsens, Mimms or Rankins...just maybe - but, none the less, In.

And also I think Ancelotti has a duty to publicly back Pickford by keeping him in this weekend.

Kieran Kinsella
177 Posted 22/10/2020 at 02:10:47
Jimmy Olsen or whatever his name is, joined during the international break then went off to play for Sveirge. So realistically he wouldn’t have had many sessions in training to prove himself to Carlo. It would have been a bold move to drop him in cold for the derby. Now I’m not saying he is or is regarded as better than Pickford, but the fact he wasn’t selected versus Liverpool I suspect was logistical as much as anything else.
Nicholas Howard
178 Posted 22/10/2020 at 02:53:30
132 Peter I sent to 3 reds friends. astonishingly, they read it and no feedback from them so far I guess it is really hurting their (fans) ego that We Evertonians are much classier than them in countering these football unfortunate and unfair incidents.
I told them, they have been enjoying lots of favorable decisions on their route to win the league last season. as usual..denial after denial... quite difficult to reason with Reds fans even for quite some close friends. COYB
Paul Tran
179 Posted 22/10/2020 at 07:32:21
Lovely piece, Lyndon. Pity you had to write it.

Liverpool are threatened by us. Clearly the media are threatened by us. Good. They'll be ready for us next Derby and I have a feeling we'll be just as ready for them.

The club is playing a blinder by saying nothing. It shows we have the class they'll never have. No point in negotiating with arseholes.

Like 1985 all over again. We're top of the league, the reds are whinging and battling with the Tories in the 'Who can be the biggest c**ts' competition.
Only difference is I'm not 21!

To Southampton on Sunday. Carlo's unbeaten, fear-creating, don't take no shit Everton march on.

Martin Mason
180 Posted 22/10/2020 at 08:10:58
Jay@159, my thoughts exactly.
Rob Halligan
181 Posted 22/10/2020 at 08:41:20
Excuse my ignorance, but Chris @ 166 says Pickford done the same to Dele Alli last season. Does Chris mean jumped into Alli in such a manner as to flatten Alli, resulting in him rupturing his ACL? I don't remember this at all. I know Dele Alli hasn't been playing but I thought that was just down to poor form, or has Chris got Dele Alli mixed up with somebody else? Maybe someone can enlighten me on this one?
Mike Price
182 Posted 22/10/2020 at 09:05:37
He flew out in the same out of control manner but Dele jumped out of the way.
The type of thing you could find ten times in every game of football!
Rob Halligan
183 Posted 22/10/2020 at 09:13:54
Cheers Mike. I just don't remember that at all, so obviously not a great deal or fuss was made from it.
Eddie Dunn
184 Posted 22/10/2020 at 09:23:54
On the subject of Pickford, I looked at Rob Green's clip on Sky yesterday and he demonstrated how Mina was blocking Jordan's view for the "goal that never was". Of course all and sundry said he should have saved it but he actually did well to get to it.
He also made one truly wondrous save from the freekick that few keepers would have got to.
I say we get behind him. At least with no fans he won't have to suffer the usual abuse.
It's time to circle the wagons and support all of our players, and Pickford's future is a subject for Carlo to ponder at the end of the season, unless his form goes seriously awry.
Stan Schofield
185 Posted 22/10/2020 at 09:43:39
There are other threads about Pickford, and about the details of Saturday’s match.

This thread is about the extreme response of LFC and the bias of the media.

I think it’s important to keep focus on that, since this is a significant issue for football.

Kevin Molloy
186 Posted 22/10/2020 at 10:35:59
Rob and Mike
that's the thought that struck me, when you watch the incident at the weekend. What the hell was VVD going into a coming together like that with two straight legs. Clearly as a defender he just wasnt' in his natural habitat, and left himself wide open to an accident happening. that may sound harsh, but keepers do fly out all of the time, I've yet to see a forward freeze like that and let the keeper come on to his straight leg. That's why the forward jumps clear in a scenario like that, and the central defender ends up injured.(whoops yes prob wrong thread(
George Carroll
187 Posted 22/10/2020 at 11:00:52
Superb article. What sort of Manager is Klopp allowing Wijnaldum to come out with such pathetic nonsense, speaks volumes about Liverpool FC
David Hamilton
188 Posted 22/10/2020 at 11:21:20
Others may disagree, but I have a fairly clear memory of us being kicked off the park in the 1971 Cup semi-final. Started to hate the Reds from that point on.
Steve Brown
189 Posted 22/10/2020 at 11:51:24
The great Everton team in the 80s played good football, but could mix it up if the other team wanted to play that game. VVD in the time he was on the pitch and Robertson throughout aimed to get at our creative players during the game.

We didn't take it and they didn't like that one bit. The extreme response reflects their fear for the future and we should take exactly the same approach in future matches.

Eddie Dunn
190 Posted 22/10/2020 at 11:55:32
Got it Stan!
Len Hawkins
191 Posted 22/10/2020 at 12:01:35
I'm sick to the back teeth of hearing how hard done to they are and some of the deadbeats dredged up to give their worthless opinion Troy Deeny Perry Groves (remember him Tin Tin lookalike ).

It is way beyond reasonable and the sooner they take their Nivea and piss off to the European 5 team Superleague the better and the journo's pundits and braindead fans follow them.

Great piece of TRUE Journalism Lyndon.

Eddie Dunn
192 Posted 22/10/2020 at 12:02:17
Today(thursday) the BBC have this headline "Liverpool: 'Immense' Fabinho steps up with Virgil van Dijk injured". just in case we forgot. Now I keep hearing that this guy is absolutely wonderful on Twitter and mainsteam media. It's funny because I recall him being a serial yellow card collector, a rather cynical player.
There has also been some questions on Twitter as to which knee was busted and which knee had been giving Virgil pain in recent games. All a little shady methinks.
Chris Williams
194 Posted 22/10/2020 at 12:20:42
James doubtful for Sunday seemingly.

Anyone minded to set up a petition?

Ray Roche
195 Posted 22/10/2020 at 12:43:44
Chris, James will miss Sunday’s game due to injury.
Dave Williams
196 Posted 22/10/2020 at 12:47:20
Bollocks! So James is injured which means our players won’t be able to sleep at night and hopefully the TV idiots will lambaste VVD for a deliberate foul intended to cause injury. Oh, hang on, they don’t criticise RS tackles do they?
Peter Neilson
197 Posted 22/10/2020 at 13:00:36
The same Troy Deeney who only last year before we played them told a Watford fans forum “Leave him (Silva) alone, let us kick the shit out of them”. Beyond parody.
Steve Brown
198 Posted 22/10/2020 at 13:32:02
So VVD injured James before he was himself injured, well that is ironic. Cue the national media outcry.
Brian Williams
199 Posted 22/10/2020 at 13:33:43
Ernie Baywood
200 Posted 22/10/2020 at 13:50:47
Liverpool fans on Facebook posting "karma" without any self awareness... They know what order karma goes in don't they?
Brian Williams
201 Posted 22/10/2020 at 14:25:27
Ernie. They won't even know what karma means mate let alone what order it goes in.
John Raftery
202 Posted 22/10/2020 at 15:15:59
The hysteria continues. In The Times report and analysis of last night’s game in Amsterdam the name ‘Van Dijk’ appears no fewer than eleven times. There is also a ‘Virgil’. He receives more name checks than any of the players who actually played in the game.
Kieran Kinsella
203 Posted 22/10/2020 at 15:25:07

Perry Groves? Whee on Earth did they dig him up from? He was sort of the Arsenal equivalent to Stuart Barlow.

Jay Harris
204 Posted 22/10/2020 at 15:38:48
John I watched the game in the hope that Ajax would beat them and the commentators mentioned his name about 20 times and he wasnt even playing.
Once again their luck returned as they got the luckiest own goal Ive ever seen and Ajax hit the post and had one cleared off the line.
No doubt we will be getting daily updates of Virgil leaving hospital and Virgil on crutches etc.
John Chambers
205 Posted 22/10/2020 at 16:40:17
Just looking at some of the gossip columns and there is speculation who they might buy to replace Van Dyke. Wonder if our signing go Godfrey might be a double whammy to their plans
Hugh Jenkins
206 Posted 22/10/2020 at 16:45:51
Ray 195 - James will miss Suday due to an injury caused by VVD tackle on him own the first five minutes of the Derby.

Can we get headline news status and worldwide coverage for the - do you think?

Tony McNulty
207 Posted 22/10/2020 at 16:47:40
I know from some of the above posts that not all of you will agree with me, but I am glad that Carlo has now come out to remind the RS and others that most of us are still on planet earth.

The way this has been going, I believe the defence of our player, followed by the reference to VD's earlier tackle on James, became necessary.

Al Tonks
208 Posted 22/10/2020 at 17:16:53
Hi, a Villa fan here. I too am gob smacked by the sheer hypocracy of the media and so called expert pundits, who have been giving their opinions of the VVD/Pickford incident.

We at Villa had a similar incident occur against Burnley on New Years Day this year, when a tackle by Ben Mee on Wesley, resulted in a ACL injury, which he is still out injured, went totally unpunished. I could understand a yellow card being given, injuries will always happen in football, that is the nature of the beast, but Mee didn't receive one.

Liverpool and all the other so called big six, seem to have a love in with the press, referees and pundits, the rest of the Premiership are not playing on a level playing field.

I hope James Rodriguez gets over his injury soon, and we'll see his skills in the coming matches.
Ray Roche
209 Posted 22/10/2020 at 17:37:47

There’s no chance at all Hugh as I think you know! Personally, I’m also glad that Carlo has come to Pickfords defence. I would have liked him to have added “ a mistimed tackle by VD on James. These things happen in football as we all know. I’m sure It wasn’t premeditated by VD”.
When we all know it was.

Frank Crewe
210 Posted 22/10/2020 at 17:46:37
Well now that Remembrance Sunday will soon be on us maybe they should extend the two minutes silence to three minutes so that the nation can remember the terrible suffering of St Virgil of Anfield for the extra minute. After that the queen can lay a reef in his honour. After all he is a fallen hero.
Mark Howard
211 Posted 22/10/2020 at 18:30:37
After the first five minutes of the match, it was so nice to see Virgil
Taking the Knee
Ray Roche
212 Posted 22/10/2020 at 18:46:13
C’mon lads, don’t forget. 20-00 hrs, clap for Virgil.
Tony Abrahams
213 Posted 22/10/2020 at 19:04:37
That’s exactly what it is Al, hypocrisy, but this is what you get with so many ex players of certain clubs, sitting in the studio with opinions that are bigger than the game, for some viewers.

You must be like us Evertonians, desperate to get back in the ground, and although I’m glad you absolutely destroyed Liverpool, I’m gutted that you Villa fans were not in the stadium to witness such a fantastic performance.

Hopefully better days are ahead for our two teams Al, the oldest fixture in top flight football, even if the EPL turned Everton’s request down, when they asked to play Villa first, when we was the first club to reach 100 seasons in the top flight. Best of luck to The Villa!

Rob Halligan
214 Posted 22/10/2020 at 19:09:44
Ray, 212, I wish it was "The Clap" for Virgil.
Phil Greenough
215 Posted 22/10/2020 at 19:26:41
Just watched Carlo's interview on Sky, he said "He thinks James may be out for Sunday." It's the presenter that stated James will be out for Sunday.

I'm hoping Carlo is making more of James' injury, to reinforce that injuries can occur accidentally and that he may at least be on the bench. 🤞

Jack Convery
217 Posted 23/10/2020 at 06:53:58
Whilst looking up what has happened to Geoff Nulty I came across this -

About Jimmy Case it reads - Case by name, hard case by nature. Case was the epitome of a tough tackler in the 1970s for Liverpool.

The local lad is detested by Everton fans for a tackle on Geoff Nulty in the 1980 Merseyside derby. Case prematurely ended Nulty’s footballing career with the tackle, stimulating abhorrence from the Goodison faithful. In his autobiography, Case alludes to the tackle, dismissing it as a mere clash of knees, in which his knee was stronger. Nulty, devastated by the demise of his injury ridden career, employed solicitors who issued a writ to Case.

The former Liverpool midfielder states he still has no regrets over the tackle and thrived off the stick from the Everton fans subjected towards him after the tackle.

They actually revel in it !! You couldn't write it but they actually do.

Brian Cleveland
218 Posted 23/10/2020 at 08:01:23
Ernie and Brian (200 and 201), explain to them that karma is a type of curry and it comes after the popadoms.
Rob Halligan
219 Posted 23/10/2020 at 08:13:24
Jack 217. I've just looked that up, and reading the piece about Graeme Sourface, it goes on to say the following...

In his last year with the Reds, after reaching the semi-final of the European Cup, the Reds faced Romanian champions Dinamo Bucharest. The first leg at Anfield will never be remembered for the result as a Sammy Lee goal secured a 1-0 win. Instead, controversy transpired when Souness appeared to punch Dinamo’s Lica Movila in an off the ball incident, consequently breaking the Romanian’s jaw.

Nonetheless Souness oozed composure and class as he put in a man of the match performance in the second leg in Bucharest, in front of a raucous reception scolding the Scot following the incident.

"Appeared to". More likely definitely did punch the Dinamo player, I mean how else could he have got a broken jaw? I assume souness wasn't even sent off for the incident, as he played in the second leg.

Brian Wilkinson
221 Posted 23/10/2020 at 13:01:17
A great read Lyndon, would just like to point out a small miss by yourself, the game in which Surez injured Mirallas, you missed out in the same game, Suarez scraped his stoods down the back of Distins calf deliberately.

Still one of the best articles I have read for a long time.

Al Tonks
222 Posted 23/10/2020 at 15:01:43
And the greed of these so called big clubs, Tony, Project Big Picture sums them up, all about themselves. Loads of clubs in the lower tiers that have been in existence, some of them longer than Liverpool and Manchester United, who are in danger of going out of existence, and all they can think of is to feather their own nests.

Everton and Villa, two proper clubs with proper fans. Hope we're both at the top end of the table when the season ends, although a mid table position for the Villa would be more realistic.
Jack Convery
223 Posted 23/10/2020 at 15:29:01
I know Rob. As I said you couldn't write it, but they do. They glorify it.

Just noted on Lawros Picks on BBC Sport website, that he predicts a 2 nil loss for EFC and the BBC have a video shot of the Devil Destroying St VVD, which when you play it, takes us to last Sundays MOTD2 and the only Red Smurph - one D. Murphy, talking about it - YET AGAIN !!!

Will Mabon
224 Posted 23/10/2020 at 15:57:29
Jack, he also predicts Villa losing 1-2 at home to Leeds tonight. It's the red in him.
Jay Evans
225 Posted 23/10/2020 at 16:29:01
Lyndon, if I ever have the pleasure of being in your company, I would like to buy you an ice cold beer.

Thank you.

Robert Tressell
226 Posted 23/10/2020 at 20:39:37
I don't particularly want to drag this out BUT... Look, I don't live in Liverpool. And so I don't get exposed to a lot of the grief. But my god knocking about tonight with some of the dads at my lad's U-7s football, you'd honestly think I was one of the MPs who'd voted not to feed starving children. The fury, the sheer fury that we'd got the rub of the green. It was something beyond banter that obviously cut deep. Something has happened that wasn't supposed to be allowed. There's a strong sense of this. Please Farhad Moshiri, deliver us a team and a stadium and let this shower go the way of Notts Forest.
Tony Hill
227 Posted 23/10/2020 at 20:55:41
Robert, @226, they're weird, mate. That's why Carlo is such an oasis. Everything about him is cool and measured while the gurning fake, Klopp, epitomises them.

Funny how, even after all these years of differing fortunes, you can't erase our class or their vulgarity. I think they know it, which is why they get so angry.

Alan Rodgers
228 Posted 23/10/2020 at 21:49:32
Adrian on SSN tonight whining about Pickford while the pictures show the 'horror tackle ' over and over again. Sky just won't let it drop.
Brent Stephens
229 Posted 23/10/2020 at 21:56:18
I must have missed it. What did Pickford do?
Dave Lynch
230 Posted 23/10/2020 at 22:08:48
What is it about that football club that turns previously sane managers into knobheads when they join them.
Tony Hill
231 Posted 23/10/2020 at 22:15:52
Brent @229, he approached the anointed one. Such a trespass cannot go unpunished and the lamentations of the people shall be endless. A thousand goats and their ilk, yea another thousand thousand, shall be strangled freshly: and then strangled again.

Don't you know your Old Testament?

Brent Stephens
232 Posted 23/10/2020 at 22:29:48
Has anybody posted this yet? Sorry if so.

Bold Virgil, imperious, smote the foe in blue,
James and Lewin laid low in the first few
Moments; he ventured North, said the prize is mine.
Like the Red Sea, the blue defences parted.
The Dutchman waded in to the storm tossed waves.
There, confronted by the red haired Minotaur,
Renowned for his daring and fabulous saves,
Flying from his nets, arms and legs wide apart,
A monstrous hydra, leaping high, did roar:
‘The royal blue Jordan river shall not be crossed.’
The Van lay broken. The Dyke was breached.
Thereafter flowed an inundation of lies.
For Virgil would not sail for all the season,
Left with neither ligament nor cartilage.
His men curse their enemies without reason.
His care rests with Dido from Carthage.

Nick Lacey
233 Posted 24/10/2020 at 16:53:04
A week on and Keown is still talking about the Van Dijk situation. It is truly pathetic.
Stan Schofield
234 Posted 25/10/2020 at 09:48:15
Brent@232: Brilliant. I didn't know where it came from, so googled the last line, and learned it's based on Virgil's Aeneid, which I didn't know anything about. So some classical education for me there.

I recently read two books on Greek mythology by Stephen Fry, Mythos, and Heroes. The first starts with the beginning of everything, and the second deals with Heracles et al. I'm hoping he writes a third book, covering the Trojan War, which would then lead on to the Aeneid, and that poem, or at least its original form! I've previously read The Iliad and The Odyssey, but this is new. Good stuff, thanks for posting it!

Darren Hind
235 Posted 25/10/2020 at 10:29:14
A week late and you log onto TW and some are still banging on about a challenge against RS.

Who cares ? We have a game today

Barry McNally
236 Posted 25/10/2020 at 10:33:58
Brent 229, let's just say VVD's funeral mass is Wednesday week.
Andrew Ellams
237 Posted 25/10/2020 at 10:36:06
SSN are running an interview on the incident right now using words like premeditated and then accusing social media of being behind the vitriol. Absolute disgrace.
James Marshall
238 Posted 25/10/2020 at 11:06:28
The problem with football today is the way in which it's dissected - the media have all this technology to hand now, and then go over every little incident with a fine tooth-comb so everything is magnified.

I sit there and watch it, and they replay/replay/replay the slightest touch, or incident as though it's a huge deal - thus making it into a huge deal. The media and technology available are what's killing the game.

Football has become so non-contact, and so sanitised that everything is under the microscope - it must be crap to play in. Stressful for players and managers due to the level of investigation into every breath players take during games now.

Watching old games during lockdown, the game was so much more watchable 10 years ago. Even 5 years ago. Now it's stressful, and nothing is certain until it's been dissected down to the millimetre - the moment they introduced all the technology, football as we all know it, died a death.

Remove all the tech, and get the game back. Just because we have the technology, doesn't mean we should use it the way it's being implemented.

Tony Abrahams
239 Posted 25/10/2020 at 11:12:03
Agree Darren, but I’ve just read an article from Danny Murphy, suggesting that Ancellotti should leave Pickford out because he’s got an obligation to the wider football community to show that tackles like this shouldn’t be acceptable.

Get a grip Murphy, the shite is getting worse by the day

John McFarlane Snr
240 Posted 25/10/2020 at 13:59:47
Hi James, [238] the human element has been removed from the game, and this along with the tinkering with the laws of the game, is quite likely to drive fans away from football. At the age of 82 I have been 'fortunate'? to have witnessed the highs and lows of the football fan, and although I have purchased my season ticket there's no guarantee that I will get to use it,. I grew up in an an era of "If the referee didn't see it, it never happened" Over the last few years the various Everton managers have succeeded in knocking the stuffing about of me, the recent transformation in the team should have me rejuvenated but I'm afraid that technology is spoiling my enjoyment.

HI Tony [239] these so-called pundits must have good agents, because not many were what I would describe as exceptional players. Any supporter could sit in a studio and tell the world what a player 'should have done', how many times have you heard, "He should have been 'finger tight'' or "He was too tight"? You and I plus our ToffeeWeb colleagues could provide that kind of comment free of charge. I'm off to the spare room to listen to the Radio Merseyside commentary, and no doubt I'll be informed of what "They should have done"

Malcolm Bennett
241 Posted 27/10/2020 at 14:03:45
Compare and contrast.

Picfords I’ll timed challenge on Virgil van Dyke. Regrettably this caused a fairly serious injury but in itself was hardly a two footed studs up lunge. The media outcry was tantamount to calling For Pickford to be hung drawn and quartered.

Now we look back to Son’s challenge on Gomes. What do we get, a great outpouring of sympathy for Son because he was so upset.

Derek Thomas
242 Posted 27/10/2020 at 14:25:29
VAR is doing exactly what we 'dinosaurs' said it much derision, (its the future, get with the program, etc...)
It's managed to make the game worse not better.

Now we have tinkering with the laws to help VAR...just get rid VAR and whoever is giving the Reffs their instructions and interpretations, because they're just as much to blame too.

Karl Meighan
243 Posted 02/11/2020 at 13:59:05
We all know why Pickford was dropped after all he played ok at Southampton. Death threats and all the other shite thrown his way since the Derby.

Why doesn't Carlo and are Club shame that vermon and come out and say why Pickford wasn't in the right frame of mind and who's fault that is?

Brian Wilkinson
244 Posted 04/11/2020 at 17:09:15
Interesting after the Utd game, Roy Keane comment on the team and the opponents, saying it needed someone to smash them.

Guess what, not a single story was run on his comment.

Even now though they are still running the story on the tackle, get over it, Heath, Bracewell and Nulty have faced far worse injuries, Parkinson, Snodin, Oviedo, Coleman, Gomes, Southall, the list is endless.

They have their first long term injury as far back as I can remember and suddenly it is an outrage.

It happens, get over it.

Brian Wilkinson
245 Posted 04/11/2020 at 17:18:32
One other thing that has not been picked up, the Firminho Holgate incident, normally an outcry when something like this is mentioned.

What do the press do, they get a lip reader who says he said something else in Portuguese.

What they do not mention is and I am trying to remember if it was Coleman or Kenny who walked in front of the player as the words were said, blocking the tv cameras.

Suddenly it was Holgate who was made out to be a liar and the press slated him so much, that his form dipped and he was taken out of the first team for a while.

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