Red Myopia and An Embarrassing National Outcry
The levels of pearl-clutching and near hysteria that has dominated the aftermath of Saturday’s controversial Merseyside derby really have been something to behold
The world is a very strange place these days. The levels of pearl-clutching and near hysteria that have dominated the aftermath of Saturday’s controversial Merseyside derby really have been something to behold. You would expect the Internet’s diaspora of Kopites, with their unrivalled sense of entitlement and offended-by-everything approach to social media, to spend the next week bleating about how they were robbed of victory and that Jordan Pickford should be retrospectively banned for his “assault” on Virgil van Dijk.
That has happened, of course, in spades, along with a few reds “supporters” wishing death on Richarlison and Jordan Pickford and “promises” made to Van Dijk that his injury will be avenged on the streets of Liverpool should the Everton goalkeeper ever dare set foot there.
What has been incredible, though, is the reaction by pundits, journalists and high-profile media personalities, some of whom you might have credited with a bit more impartiality than to get pulled into the Big Red pity party in quite the way they have. The Sky Sports and BT Sport pundit panels are stuffed with ex-Liverpool players, of course, so Steve McManaman’s insufferable “insights” and Graeme Souness’s self-righteous indignation, hilariously mocked by Jamie Carragher for the flagrant hypocrisy it was, are par for the course.
But then you’ve got the likes of Martin Keown, an ex-Everton player and no stranger to cynical on-field transgressions himself, saying Pickford’s impressive saves shouldn’t count because he shouldn’t have been on the pitch. The Daily Mail described the goalkeeper’s challenge as “a horror tackle” and The Mirror have given column inches to ex-referee Keith Hackett who equated Pickford’s actions to Roy Keane’s premeditated lunge on Alf Inge Haaland and suggested that Liverpool FC should sue the Everton man for the money they will spend paying for his treatment and his wages while he recuperates over the next few months.
Former Premier League goalie Mark Bosnich and Julien Laurens, a man paid by EPSN among others for his opinions, took it to new heights of lunacy by arguing that Pickford should be banned for as long as Van Dijk is out injured. And to cap it all off, Georginio Wijnaldum’s simpering complaints that he and his team-mates haven’t slept since losing their captain have been carried across the back pages most of the major papers today, complete with a sorrowful piece by one of the industry’s heavier weights in Henry Winter.
Listen to an excerpt from David Preece's chat about Pickford with Matt Jones
Where were these distraught pieces when André Gomes had his ankle snapped in two as the result of a cynical tackle by Son Hueng-Min that was a good deal more impetuous and intentional than Pickford’s? Of course, as we Blues noted at the time, the media focus amid the fallout was on the South Korean’s tears and emotional well-being. Son even had his red card rescinded by the Football Association even though he had endangered the Portuguese’s career when the “red mist” descended.
Where was this almost mawkish response when Seamus Coleman suffered a double leg break and James McCarthy suffered the same fate a few years back? Or when Gerard Deulofeu ruptured his ACL in a challenge by Virgil van Dijk? Or, going further back, when Martin Taylor nearly ended Eduardo’s career by breaking his ankle in 2008?
It’s depressing that the back-page attention-grabbing tricks work so well in the clickbait economy of modern journalism so that newspaper editors indulge this sensationalist nonsense and it shouldn’t be ignored that this media furore is fuelling and encouraging the abuse that Pickford and his wife — not to mention Richarlison, the other bad guy from Saturday — have been receiving on social media this week.
All of it is enough to confirm your suspicions that the world is losing its mind but, thankfully, there are more measured, mature heads out there willing to see the incidents on Saturday for what they were — the product of the heat of the moment in a local derby; unfortunate incidents that happen in football, particularly when emotions are running high.
Martin Samuel used his Sunday column in the Daily Mail to focus on the football and Everton finally playing their neighbours as equals after years of living in their shadow. Speaking to The Blue Room podcast, David Preece backed his fellow Mackem, saying that he can’t listen to anyone who says Pickford acted with malice or that he even had time to. And David Squires had some fun with the situation in his latest cartoon for The Guardian, lampooning the funereal reaction from Liverpool to the loss of their skipper.
David Squires mocks the funereal reaction to Van Dijk's injury in his latest cartoon
From a psychological standpoint, much of the reaction from Liverpool fans has been understandable and there have been a few level-headed reds who accepted the situation for what it was. While the incident that caused Van Dijk’s injury wasn’t as visceral or shocking as those that befell Gomes and Coleman in particular, Liverpool have lost a hugely important player and the fact that it was a player from the old enemy that caused it has only rubbed salt into the wounds.
Richarlison’s even more rash and dangerous tackle on Thiago Alcântara has, unfortunately, only intensified the witch hunt and with the media piling on, there is a danger that what was arguably one of the nicest teams in the Premier League — indeed, too nice for too long — is being painted as a gang of thugs that goes out with the express intent of injuring their opponents. Certainly, Wijnaldum’s whingeing with the media’s backing is doing nothing to quell the outrage and the calls for some kind of “justice”, and as the narrative builds, so does the likelihood that Everton will find themselves on the wrong end of another big decision in the coming weeks. Perhaps that’s the point.
Let’s be clear — Jordan Pickford’s challenge on Van Dijk was, at best, clumsy (and typically Pickford-esque in that respect) and, at worst, utterly reckless. Richarlison’s was born of frustration but unforgivable and he was deservedly red-carded. Had the rules not been muddied by the introduction of VAR, Pickford probably would have been sent off, too, and the post-match discussion would be dominated by Evertonians — and observers of the England national team as well, no doubt — questioning how much longer the former Sunderland man can keep the starting spot in Carlo Ancelotti’s team. (In reality, that debate can’t be staved off much longer because Pickford almost cost his team-mates the game with that incident and his blunder for Jordan Henderson’s disallowed goal at the death but that’s a matter for another column.)
It wasn’t premeditated — and modern super slow-mo replays don’t help in this respect because they make it look as though he had time to think about his actions — and if there was any intent in it at all, it was probably to merely ensure that Van Dijk, in the same way the Dutchman had “left something” on James Rodriguez and Dominic Calvert-Lewin in the first couple of minutes of Saturday’s match, know he was in a local derby. The fact that Pickford connects with the defender’s leg as it was planted, thereby hyper-extending the ligaments on impact, was just unfortunate and made the “tackle” look that much worse.
Contact sport: Virgil van Dijk escapes causing Dries Mertens serious injury in a Champions League clash with Napoli
That the outcry has been so loud and widespread in the media speaks, no doubt, to the fact that Van Dijk is regarded as one of the best players in his position, appears to be a decent guy and model professional. It’s also down to who he plays for — the reigning Premier League champions and one of the media darling “big six” so there are plenty of parallels here to the “Project Big Picture” issue that took up all the oxygen last week. It’s hard to imagine a player from any other club bar maybe Manchester United getting such a reaction from the press and very little has been said about an awful two-footed lunge by Lewis Dunk from the weekend that could have been just as damaging as Pickford’s had the Brighton defender not been as fortunate.
What Goes Around Comes Around
No one would argue that Virgil van Dijk had an injury like that coming to him — he’s not that kind of player — or that any current reds player would be deserving of having seven to nine months carved out of their career as a result of one poor tackle. He’s not the first to come off badly from the blood and thunder of a Mersey derby, though. Marouane Fellaini was once sidelined by a two-footed challenge from Sotiris Kyrgiakos in an Anfield derby in 2010 and, most notable of all (but seemingly lost in the mists of time where modern journos are concerned because it’s from that “different generation” that Souness so conveniently but lamely invoked at the weekend), Liverpool’s Jimmy Case ended Geoff Nulty’s career with a horrible tackle 40 years ago.
Marouane Fellaini was sidelined for a lengthy period by an ugly tackle by Sotiris Kyrgiakos in 2010
But the bed-wetting by some Liverpool fans overlooks just how lucky their team has been with regard to serious injury to their players in recent years. While Everton have had leg and ankle fractures, ACLs, Achilles tendon ruptures, medal ligament injuries and quadricep tears that have deprived them of key players for long periods. Jürgen Klopp has been able to call upon a remarkably consistent team and it was a big reason why Liverpool cantered to the title last season.
And while the Anfield hierarchy are demanding answers from the Premier League over VAR reviews and the ever-evolving offside rule and will, with their outsized reputation and consequent heft, probably agitate enough to force through some kind of change, they’re conveniently forgetting just how much and how often they have benefitted from decisions on a routine basis. Indeed, this pathetic reaction from their fans to being on the wrong side of very clear rules is illustrative of a fanbase utterly unfamiliar with the kind of refereeing injustice that teams like Everton experience all too frequently. Not for nothing did “Penalty to Liverpool!” become a meme on Twitter last season as Sadio Mané and Mohamed Salah dived and flopped their way to cheap penalty kicks. Now the boot is finally on the other foot, they can’t handle it.
And let’s not forget just how lopsided the Merseyside derby hall of infamous and scandalous officiating has become over the years. There are incidents that date back four decades that still wound Evertonians to this day and many can reel them off without taking a breath. For them, the following won’t be anything other than a painful reminder so feel free to skip this wander down memory lane but any reds who have got this far might need a dose of perspective.
Clive Thomas disallowed a perfectly legitimate goal by Bryan Hamilton that robbed Everton of a place in the 1977 FA Cup Final that might well have transformed what ended up being a barren decade after the Toffees lifted the title in 1970.
In the 1984 Milk Cup Final, another incident that will never be forgotten by the Blue family, Alan Hansen’s clear handball on the line denied Adrian Heath a winner that would have delivered a trophy to Goodison Park a few weeks earlier than would end up being the case when Howard Kendall steered his team to FA Cup glory.
In April 2000, in one of the more egregious errors in judgement, Graham Poll blew the final whistle as the ball was heading towards Sander Westerveld’s empty goal, the reds’ keeper having blasted a clearance against Don Hutchison’s backside, depriving Walter Smith’s side of victory. Unlike Thomas, who has never provided an explanation, years later, Poll would admit he got the decision wrong and the goal should have allowed.
And Poll was at the centre of controversy again in an Anfield derby in 2002 when he elected to award Liverpool a free-kick instead of Everton a penalty for handball by Stephan Henchoz and then somehow failed to take action against Steven Gerrard for a dreadful two-footed assault on a prone Gary Naysmith.
In 2007, it was Mark Clattenburg’s turn to take centre stage in a Goodison derby that saw two Everton players receive red cards, the first of which, for Tony Hibbert, was going to be just a booking as the referee reached for his yellow card but changed his mind after Gerrard got in his ear. The seething injustice around this edition of the derby was compounded by the fact that Clattenburg failed to give the Blues a penalty when Joleon Lescott was hauled down in the box by Jamie Carragher and the referee failed to even card Dirk Kuyt for an incredible, flying, two-footed, waist-high lunge on Phil Neville that the latter managed to avoid by hurdling out the way.
Then, in 2011, match official Martin Atkinson, was completely taken in by Luis Suarez’s blatant dive right in front of him and brandished a red card to Jack Rodwell, ending that Goodison derby as a contest in just the 22nd minute and condemning Everton to a 2-0 defeat.
Suarez, of course, was the villain of the piece two years later back at the Old Lady when his stamp on Kevin Mirallas took the Belgian out of the game but went unpunished, another in that long list of Blue derby grievances.
And just on Saturday, Liverpool got away with another two incidents, one where Andrew Robertson kicked out at Allan and the other where Mané blatantly tripped Yerry Mina off the ball. Neither of them caused any injury — although had Robertson raked his studs down Allan’s Achilles rather this his calf, it may have been a different story — but they’ve also been completely glossed over in the hand-wringing over Van Dijk’s injury.
Andrew Robertson's cynical kick out at Allan went unseen and unpunished by the officials
And do we even have to mention the Heysel ban, the greatest injustice of them all?
All in all, the fallout from Saturday’s derby has been a little pathetic to watch unfold but, again, there’s a risk of narratives being sown that could have implications for way that match officials treat both clubs going forward. It’s incredibly myopic of Wijnaldum to claim that Everton “take it way too far in the games we play against them,” when you survey the modern history of the derby and what has been perpetrated by both sides.
It was a derby, one of the more even and tightly-contested for quite a while but one also marred by a couple of very poor tackles that have garnered all the attention and one that, unfortunately, resulted in a long-term injury. No one died; life will go on, and while the northwest is roiled by rising Coronavirus cases, fresh lockdowns and the resulting economic hardship, you’d think there were more important things to whine about.
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Reader Comments (240)
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2 Posted 21/10/2020 at 08:41:20
3 Posted 21/10/2020 at 08:58:32
What else could explain the hysterical reaction? They have had it all their own way for a long time and now realise that won't always be the case.
Yet another tedious response below.
4 Posted 21/10/2020 at 08:58:39
5 Posted 21/10/2020 at 08:58:43
Wow, as if the media bonfire needed further fuel, they're keeping it going at the RS luvvin Beeb with this one from press conference yesterday.
I know Everton are keeping a dignified silence on all this, but seriously someone should be saying enough is enough pointing out that the RS were not the angels they were portraying themselves to be on Saturday.
The way history is being rewritten here wouldn't disgrace Stalin! If we don't say anything then this spin will become an undeniable truth.
6 Posted 21/10/2020 at 08:59:24
Doesn't hide the fact that Pickford's reckless action isn't compensated for by the good saves he makes. Think he will be moved on in the next 12 months in a quiet way to ensure we get some of our money back.
7 Posted 21/10/2020 at 09:01:02
The BBC Breakfast sport report this morning, presented by the Red Sally Nugent talked about the forthcoming Champions League games and said "and Liverpool face their match without Van Dijk, injured by Everton's Pickford", and showed the familiar picture of the challenge.
Gosh, it's tiresome.
8 Posted 21/10/2020 at 09:09:53
9 Posted 21/10/2020 at 09:14:05
10 Posted 21/10/2020 at 09:15:26
Remarkable scenes all round. Welcome to our world.
11 Posted 21/10/2020 at 09:19:29
Everton FC suffers generally negatively on these types of incidents because they always have to play second fiddle to the neighbours in both the local and national media so that only sites like this can put forward a counter-argument on behalf of Evertonians and you have done this in the most thoughtful way.
I suspect that the media outrage will have an adverse effect on the club in the near future as officials will be hypersensitive in the aftermath of the derby and this may cloud their judgement.
The club will handle this as it has done so often before, but it's a pity that Carlo's team could pay a high price for a couple of unfortunate moments in a very competitive derby.
12 Posted 21/10/2020 at 09:28:04
For what it's worth, my opinion is bring it on. It tells me we've become a threat. And what we need to do as a club now is close ourselves off to these ineffectual and irrelevant hate preachers.
We need to use this to our advantage and create an 'us versus the world' mentality. With that wall around us, we go into every match like it's a fight we cannot lose. Make them hate us more, make them scared of us. Make it so that nobody wants to play little old Everton.
13 Posted 21/10/2020 at 09:28:08
Thanks for putting this together.
14 Posted 21/10/2020 at 09:37:33
15 Posted 21/10/2020 at 09:38:49
16 Posted 21/10/2020 at 09:38:55
This may be the best thing Lyndon has ever written. Brilliant and thanks.
17 Posted 21/10/2020 at 09:40:57
They had a pre-match show on Star Sports here in India on Sunday, the day after the Saturday derby - Seema Jaiswal was the host, Glenn Hoddle and the other guy, whose name I forget. So, they are in the middle of the discussion and then she suddenly goes "Hold on a moment! We have breaking news" with a very mournful expression and I am like 'Oh God, no, not another terrorist attack in Paris/London or wherever', and she announces "News coming in that Virgil van Dyke will need to undergo surgery on his knee for the injury suffered yesterday resulting from a tackle by. bla.. bla..". And I was like "WTF???"
When did this ever happen to an injured Everton player? I shudder to think of what might have happened to Pickford and EFC if VVD's leg had snapped in 2 like what happened to Gomes. Probably there would have been calls to bring back the death penalty in Britain!
Pickford is a strong guy, he needs the support of Carlo and the fans, whatever we may think about his footballing ability at the moment. Yes, he is in the middle of terrible form, but I somehow feel that he thrives in adversity and this incident, might bizarrely bring back his focus and concentration. It will be an interesting return derby in April by which time, I assume that the crowds will be allowed back in the stadiums.
18 Posted 21/10/2020 at 09:44:15
Quite, just saying it honestly, as it was.
"No one died; life will go on, and while the northwest is roiled by rising Coronavirus cases, fresh lockdowns and the resulting economic hardship, you’d think there were more important things to whine about."
Exactly, a sense of perspective needed.
19 Posted 21/10/2020 at 09:47:39
Elaine from Peterborough. I didn’t hear her comments, is there a link which I can listen to? I could do with a laugh.
20 Posted 21/10/2020 at 09:49:20
Suffice to say, I believe that this cover-up is an indication of how worried they (all of them) are about the possibility of Everton and Ancelotti breaking their grip. I would not be intimidated by any of this drivel but would certainly use it to our advantage. Win again on Sunday and let's see:
"Have you seen the little piggies
Crawling in the dirt?
And for all the little piggies
Life is getting worse,
Always having dirt to play around in
Have you seen the bigger piggies
In their starched white shirts?
You will find the bigger piggies
Stirring up the dirt,
Always have clean shirts to play around in
In their styes with all their backing
They don't care what goes on around
In their eyes there's something lacking
What they need's a damn good whacking"
Cosmic Blue Grooves All The Way.
21 Posted 21/10/2020 at 09:50:31
Lyndon's piece has been linked to by the Echo in its Everton news section, it might still only be read by Evertonians but you never know others may see it too.
22 Posted 21/10/2020 at 09:53:54
For anyone who wonders what I'm on about, Elaine from Peterborough was on radio 5live on Sunday night and again last night on Talksport. She was almost hysterical on Sunday, like a wailing banshee, a real drama queen. She basically came on to say every time the derby is at Goodison, there is nearly always trouble. She cites a challenge by Mirallas on Suarez on both nights, but obviously doesn't know the reason for the challenge. Last night she cites a challenge by Fellaini on a player, but I can't remember who she said it was. I'm sure we all know the reason for the Mirallas "revenge" tackle, so I won't go into it.
Last night on Talksport, Perry Groves was adamant Pickford fully intended to injure Van Dijk. How does he know, is he a mind reader?. All he kept on saying was that Pickford had both feet at least two feet off the floor, with his eyes only focused on Van Dijk, and making a "lunge" at Van Dijk with every intention of hurting him. Well the image I've seen shows an entirely different picture. (Where's Jay Woods Brz when you need him). I'm not condoning Pickford for his actions (I said last night I felt he was 100% innocent, which was totally a tongue in cheek comment), but in no way did he intend to hurt Van Dijk, but I don't think he is 100% to blame either. It was just an unfortunate collision which resulted in an unfortunate injury for one.
This is going to rumble on until the return derby at mordor. I seriously believe, even if fans still aren't allowed back into stadiums, there will be some planned revenge attack by RS fans towards Pickford. I can almost see now, the Everton team bus being attacked on its way up anfield road towards the stadium.
23 Posted 21/10/2020 at 09:56:30
What concerns me more is that there will be a concerted effort to punish us by the media and the referees (look out Sunday when we play Liverpool Rejects XI) and, while Carlo will be aware of this and address it when it does happen, the players will need to be super careful because the knives are out.
An Alamo mentality might help us.
24 Posted 21/10/2020 at 10:08:41
Take a bow, Lyndon, brilliant.
25 Posted 21/10/2020 at 10:09:25
Then again, did one of them claim they were going to sue Real Madrid for £1bn when Ramos dared to tangle with Salah in the CL Final?
26 Posted 21/10/2020 at 10:09:31
28 Posted 21/10/2020 at 10:14:30
Excellent Article Lyndon, could you not submit for publication in the Echo?
29 Posted 21/10/2020 at 10:16:10
Imagine how Ed Balls may have felt!
30 Posted 21/10/2020 at 10:17:26
Geoff, the red Echo has already referenced and reproduced a fair chunk of Lyndon's article.
31 Posted 21/10/2020 at 10:18:52
I often get labelled a Bitter Blue.
I've started responding by saying, "Thanks Kitty".
On further explanation I explain it is short for Self-Pity Kitty.
I'm sure many of them are still curled-up in the foetal position at home, trembling and sobbing, the curtains drawn closed against the cruel world outside, a picture of VVD clutched to their aching hearts.
Bless.
Mind you, we had better be careful.
Elaine and her Peterborough posse could be on the march, clutching stale scones and vol-au-vents to hurl at us Bitters.
(Seriously, expect further nausea inducement down the line when she is guest of honour at VVD's return, a smiling, tear-filled Klopp in the background, Phil Collins' 'If Leaving Me is Easy' a background accompaniment. Buckets at the ready.)
32 Posted 21/10/2020 at 10:23:46
33 Posted 21/10/2020 at 10:24:40
34 Posted 21/10/2020 at 10:26:05
Apart from that, l have long said we should have sued the redshite for 5 years of loss of earnings from missed European football.
FTRS
35 Posted 21/10/2020 at 10:43:35
If you think Elaine will defrost those vol-au-vents for the likes of us before throwing them, think again.
The Middle England RS-Manc axis can get really nasty when it wants to.
36 Posted 21/10/2020 at 10:48:05
A club whose players supported one of their own who directed racist abuse at an opponent.
A club that won the CL and whose supporters then vandalise an Everton monument.
A club that won the PL and whose supporter then set fire to Everton office building and damaged the Dixie Dean statue.
A club whose supporters wave a Steaua Bucaresti banner.
A club that can fuck right off.
Fucking hate them.
If RS were playing the Nazis in Escape to Victory I would be shouting for the Nazis (well hoping for a draw).
37 Posted 21/10/2020 at 10:48:16
But unfortunately there are some weird types who are extreme zealots. Trouble is, LFC itself has failed miserably to lead by example. Their utterances have been unprofessional, inciting extreme behaviour from others, and have in my opinion brought the game into disrepute. Klopp in particular comes over as unbalanced. The relevant authorities need to censure him particularly and LFC generally.
For a club that has had so many issues with the media in relation to the Hillsborough disaster, it is ironic that that very media are fomenting matters in the way we’re seeing.
The responses of LFC and the media are enough to put ordinary decent folk off football alltogether. It is an absurd and ugly episode that requires a firm and clear response from the authorities.
38 Posted 21/10/2020 at 10:52:41
The other lot will be delighted to see that our fans are just as preoccupied as they are, it's 1 game in 38... move on.
39 Posted 21/10/2020 at 10:53:06
Thanks, I didn't know that. 👍🏻
40 Posted 21/10/2020 at 11:03:55
41 Posted 21/10/2020 at 11:08:33
I think the club have done exactly the right thing by making no comment, these type of tackles quite often and unfortunately 1 player is likely to miss the rest of the season. Should the officials have sent Pickford off yes absolutely.
42 Posted 21/10/2020 at 11:11:52
Gerry #32 this should really make it interesting
43 Posted 21/10/2020 at 11:16:42
Players are not allowed within a foot of him without it looking like he’s been shot. He’s gone in on Digne in a nasty challenge, done over Mina. Guy has mastered the dark arts
44 Posted 21/10/2020 at 11:22:51
I think it’s hilarious watching and listening to them all
Mind you I’ll probably get a bit pissed off with it after it spills over to next season.
Personally I hope the Club do not respond to it in any way
However the next time Henry Winter or any of the other RS journos who have made this so ridiculous, turn up at Goodison for their pukka pies and treble GT’s the Club should tell them to F Off
45 Posted 21/10/2020 at 11:23:16
46 Posted 21/10/2020 at 11:24:44
That incident hardened my visceral intense dislike of the RS and everything that has come out this week (good on Carragher calling Souness out btw) has only hardened my view, when at my age I should be mellowing.
I have two close mates who are rabid LFC fans, one who I was at school with, never piles in after derby games as I don't with him; it's a game of football, we don't need the extra shit.
It's different with the other one, he's been frothing at the mouth all week until I reminded him of the Case incident as, funnily enough, he was at the game.
Bring it on, we are top of the league, a threat to them and the media's selected order, and I love it.
47 Posted 21/10/2020 at 11:26:55
48 Posted 21/10/2020 at 11:31:27
Mind you it already has, but hopefully people will be able to read between the lines, and fathom out exactly what is the true crux of the matter.
I get a lot of jokes on What'sApp, and send them on to various friends, (yes some are actually RS) but the recent ones regarding Saturday and the focus on JP and VVD, have been met in one quarter as being 'boring now'.
To which I immediately riposted, that it was Liverpool who will not let this matter rest, not us, each time I check in to SSN, they are still going on about it 4 or 5 days after the event.
Glad to see that nearly all Evertonians, who unfortunately have had to endure similar torture for more years than we deserve, have nevertheless kept a dignified stance on the ugly propaganda emanating from Mordor.
49 Posted 21/10/2020 at 11:34:49
WANTITBOTHWAYS FC, are not going to get an inch out of us Evertonians on this one, no fucking chance.
50 Posted 21/10/2020 at 11:40:37
And then Carragher calls him on the fact they were light at centre half anyway, and he blows again. But I reckon he touched a nerve. I reckon they finished the last window, with 'we should be ok, just pray nothing happens to Virgil'. And I reckon he's right, that is their season finished, they were wholly dependent on this guy playing every game. Without him they will do well to finish top 4. That may sound extreme, but that team will lose confidence rapidly once they start shipping stupid goals.
51 Posted 21/10/2020 at 11:43:34
Outraged at everything, ashamed of nothing.
I’ll never forget a group of them laughing after Heysel saying it was worth it because we couldn’t play in the European Cup. They still celebrate it with their Steaua Bucharest flag.
Vile, greedy, arrogant, entitled and embarrassing. One of their sites had a comment saying Everton were an embarrassment to this City!
You really couldn’t make it up.
52 Posted 21/10/2020 at 11:45:00
You put a lot of these national journalists to shame when you write about our club, and some people might say it’s a very one sided response, which makes it all the better imo, because that’s exactly how the fallout from the Merseyside derby as been reported on nationally has you quite rightly point out👏👏
53 Posted 21/10/2020 at 11:55:15
We needed a public response from somebody who not only knows the facts, but can find the words to expose the absurdity of this media frenzy.
Lyndon cuts straight through the bullshit with this admirable and unerringly accurate response. The RS propaganda machine will not want this piece reaching a wider audience. Too many home truths.
I urge all Evertonians to send this article to every kopite. Scrap that. Every football fan, they know.
Take a bow, Mr Lloyd.
54 Posted 21/10/2020 at 11:56:36
They will be given license to dive and cheat their way through games and get every debatable decision. Expect VAR to break down on any controversial decision against them.
Other side of the coin, we will be marked down for every decision. Until the media stop fawning over “the big 2” nothing will change.
55 Posted 21/10/2020 at 12:00:25
Rank hypocrisy that is driven by fear, these games are feisty and in the past Liverpool have delivered some horror tackles themselves. More than their fair share.
Neither side has the moral high ground. All this knee jerk hyperbole Is a result of the shock of losing their most important player and is far from balanced or impartial.
This relentless vitriol is now inciting hate and threats of violence. It has to stop before a player or their family get hurt, or worse. The media outlets that continue to run with this, like a wolf pack, will be complicit.
56 Posted 21/10/2020 at 12:04:48
57 Posted 21/10/2020 at 12:05:36
The crescendo of pundits of all colours(club) from the so-called top six, shows the cartel does not want to become a "top seven". Indeed would the media fail to include any of those usual suspects should they fail to occupy those places in the final standing?
The Keowns, Murphies, Shearers and Wrights and the nincompoops like Jenas, Crooks and Savage, plus the serial idiots like Jim White, Merson and Parlour are very worried that we could gatecrashtheir cozy little party. Watch out EFC players for the fall-out from the Red anguish.
It does remind me of how in '85 the press, took half a season to recognise that we might just be in the title mix. They couldn't see past their darlings of RS, Man Utd and Spurs.
58 Posted 21/10/2020 at 12:07:28
I suspect Everton FC will be bounced into responding to the hysteria. If we don't, it will be assumed that we have no defence and are culpable of something.
Our silence will be misconstrued and, like others, I do wonder if decisions might be made against us in the coming weeks.
59 Posted 21/10/2020 at 12:09:00
60 Posted 21/10/2020 at 12:16:35
The media reaction to the ‘tackle’ has brought out in me a strong urge to get behind Pickford. I’m not suggesting I would defend what he did, it was reckless, but the vitriolic loathing in the media has made me realise how strongly the Sky 6 will attack in response to any perceived threat to their dominance.
I feel like they’re scared. And I feel like we are the reason for that. We need to stick together, close ranks and back our boys to the hilt because evidently no-one else is going to.
61 Posted 21/10/2020 at 12:16:37
Me think they doth protest too much.. Our perspective would be seen as justification for the alleged "assault " rather than observations and comments on their repeated baseless condemnations. Whatever we say will be twisted, whatever we don't say will be an admission of guilt. My only answer is simply what goes around comes around, the gods balance the scales, karma is king, while Pickford remains silent I hope he is not in a dark place, he needs to know that no matter what is said we will stand by him because if we do not it will be seen as an admission of guilt but more importantly not to do so would be the end of the players career at this club.
62 Posted 21/10/2020 at 12:19:46
Take solace then my friend from the old adage, which I believe has biblical derivations : Pearls before swine! :-)
63 Posted 21/10/2020 at 12:19:46
Saturday was a great leveller. Not only did we hold "the best team in Europe" to a draw, but they left the pitch in tatters having been denied a winner by VAR (karma's a bitch, eh RS?) and seen their ever-present centre half limp off for a long spell on the sidelines. As has been said, they've had more than their fair share of luck with long-term injuries so - with sympathy to VVD for his personal misfortune - suck it up and welcome to our world. These things happen.
Let's see if our lads are mentally strong enough to deal with this flack - I want to see them tackling hard on Sunday at Soton - and let's hope this minor setback genuinely has left the RS sleepless and distraught, because their over-reaction to losing a player for a few months could well destroy their season.
64 Posted 21/10/2020 at 12:19:58
65 Posted 21/10/2020 at 12:21:41
We never seem to get a grip of this particular dark art and our media representation in Osman and Cahill never plant any seeds for our future benefit, or highlight any of their misdeeds either. They’d probably lose their jobs if they did.
66 Posted 21/10/2020 at 12:31:00
They expect adoration for anything remotely positive and respond with hysteria and childlike behaviour when things don't go their way.
67 Posted 21/10/2020 at 12:33:48
68 Posted 21/10/2020 at 12:35:17
A protected Species? It should be the same for every team on the field of play, whether it be Premiership or from the lower tiers, in the case of a Cup Tie.
69 Posted 21/10/2020 at 12:37:41
We have been defensive simply because we have had to be, facing this media onslaught, but Troy Deeney called it right, because these referees are never questioned in public about their actions, and this can’t be right.
What’s worse, a player injuring an opponent unintentionally, or a player deceiving both his opponent and the ref, because he had a right to go down?
We all know the answer, let’s see the powers that be come down hard on cheating, first of all.
70 Posted 21/10/2020 at 12:42:18
I so enjoyed your pouring out of emotion in this article. I am sure most of us on ToffeeWeb will be in total agreement with what you have written.
Not only is it emotional but it is also grounded in factual details that highlight bias in the media and the press in particular.
Personally, I am sheltered from the shit press in UK by living in Australia and I feel for fellow TWebbers in UK at having to put up with the absolute Red Shite Centric idiots in the UK papers. We have a similar set of vibes in the AFL here.
You do a great job in bringing to us all great subject matter. Thank you for this.
I have one message for Klipperty and the other RS dickbrains and that it (succinctly) "Fuck Off"!
71 Posted 21/10/2020 at 12:45:59
Last Para - That "is" (succinctly)
72 Posted 21/10/2020 at 12:47:50
One can only conclude that Everton progressing is treated with automatic 'How dare they!' and there is somethings wrong with the Rules and they needed changed or the Ref is at fault and action should be taken against him.
This was the same type of aftermath to the Penalty and Niasse supposed dive, both resulting rule changes.
I noticed the Red Echo in a headline suggested that Ancelotti had raised the prospect of competition from Olsen for Pickford. It would take a big stretch of the imagination to get that out of what they reported.
There seems to be a concerted effort of negative media reports again at Everton.
73 Posted 21/10/2020 at 12:50:58
I’d hoped Carragher’s balanced view would prevail but if Wijnaldum and Klopp’s hyperbole was not challenged then the media really is plumbing new depths. I am genuinely worried that the continued hype about these competitively characteristic / personally uncharacteristic incidents will lead to genuine tragedy.
I’m not sure it helps to suggest Jordan Pickford was attempting to give something back for Van Dijk’s early fouls. Surely he wouldn’t have had the time to work out it was any particular player and decide he was going to exact some revenge? It was just a close quarters ‘ball and all’ challenge on an opponent that completely missed the ball and unfortunately caused more injury than he would ever have intended.
74 Posted 21/10/2020 at 12:51:24
I think you are right it want we all need to do.Absolutely!
75 Posted 21/10/2020 at 12:54:48
I’d love nothing more than a level playing field but sometimes you have to fight fire with fire.
I read that Joe Royle in his good natured way used to ask the referee in the tunnel at Anfield, “Are both teams playing to the same rules today, ref?” Subtle, but planting the seed not to be biased and influenced by the crowd.
We’re amateurs, they’re masters. Hopefully Ancoletti will change the dynamic.
76 Posted 21/10/2020 at 12:58:25
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/10/21/football/gustavo-henrique-testicle-injury-flamengo-spt-intl/index.html
77 Posted 21/10/2020 at 12:58:37
78 Posted 21/10/2020 at 12:59:34
Si, well said!
80 Posted 21/10/2020 at 13:06:56
81 Posted 21/10/2020 at 13:10:24
82 Posted 21/10/2020 at 13:10:51
Have been so annoyed by the bias media coverage that I have been reading & listening to since last Saturday so I've sent the link to the article to BBC, Sky & Talkshite, hope others can do the same, we need to get it out there & let them know how we feel.
83 Posted 21/10/2020 at 13:13:56
84 Posted 21/10/2020 at 13:14:07
What worries me is the hysteria shown by Klopp and his entourage and the media frenzy may well have serious implications for players safety and the safety of ordinary Evertonians. Liverpool 'fans' are being encouraged to show their rage and some may react violently. I know I've had to tell a few to calm down!
85 Posted 21/10/2020 at 13:31:16
So much is being said and the derby match has once again brought out the worst in some people. RS and their fans were still smarting from the Villa thrashing and thought beating Everton would be the perfect cure for bouncing back. They almost did it against ten men Everton but VAR proved otherwise. One can understand them being pissed. Tough but get over it !!
They probably resent Everton still being top of the table.
Whilst it won't be forgotten for a while we should move on to the next game which will be equally as tough.
[BRZ]
86 Posted 21/10/2020 at 13:40:48
That said, I find myself leaning to Brian Harrison @ 38 that we ourselves are helping to feed into the media frenzy by continuing to create new threads on the subject.
For me, last Saturday's events have put into sharp focus two things:
1) The poverty of football punditry.
2) The poverty of football journalism.
I could add a third and say it also highlights (as if further evidence was needed) the disproportionate representation of one particular club in both 'professions'.
It doesn't need to be like this.
Only yesterday, four days after the event, did we finally see some excellent pundity on the Pickford incident from former England goalkeeper Robert Green.
Robert Green on Pickford Incident
(Note: this link works for UK based viewers. Overseas viewers can access it if they have a VPN).
Now all media outlets have access to the same images as Green uses for his analysis. But until yesterday, none had played it back and offered the very sound analysis as Green presents.
Why not?
It clearly shows Jordan's thought process in the nano-seconds available to him in a high speed play. That he was not wreckless or malicious in his intent. That he actually gets good contact on the ball.
It was a football incident which happens every weekend. Two committed players going for the same ball. In the majority of cases, both come out of it fine. On Saturday, VVD didn't.
That's football. That's life. Ask Blues about it.
Green's analysis is the standard of punditry all media outlets should strive for and demand from all their 'rent-a-gobs'.
However, I won't hold my breath. The media wants to generate controversy as click bait for a hungry audience not concerned with the nuances. The ranting and outraged are preferred to the balanced and studious.
Then you have the narrative and headlines the media is running with. It is very interesting to note this morning that yesterday's headline on Sky Sports for the Green analysis has changed today.
Yesterday, it was 'Green: Pickford Was Out of Control'.
Today, it is simply: 'Analysis: 'Pickford's collision with Van Dijk'.
Green said nothing of the sort that 'Pickford was out of control'. The headline was a complete misportrayal of his studied analysis. But it helped perpetuate the indignant narrative all media have run with since the game.
Yesterday a number of tabloid 'Red Tops' (oh, the irony...) run a story on their back pages that both Pickford and Richy (and their families) have received death threats and many abusive messages. That was a direct consequence of the media frenzy the journos and pundits themselves created.
Also yesterday in a presser you had both the Liverpool manager and Wijnaldum further stoking the fires, unchallenged.
Where was the journo to stand up and ask either of them:
'Do you condemn the behaviour of Liverpool supporters making death threats and posting abusive messages to both Pickford and Richarlison? 'And if you do condemn that behaviour, do you not think it is irresponsible of you to continue to stoke the fires, rather than douse the flames, accept what has happened and move on?'
But they won't. They will all be too afraid of losing their press credentials and continued access to the sage of Liverpool FC.
Carlo will be asked about the incidents of last Saturday in this week's presser, I'm sure.
I for one am looking forward to his laconic replies and how he responds.
87 Posted 21/10/2020 at 13:41:55
Unfortunately there is a downside. Populist politicians are taking great advantage of it spreading daft ideas and falsehoods. Ridiculous cults are also using it to attract the not too clever to their beliefs. The public at large are airing their views without thinking them through before posting.
The result of all this is that we have wacky people with wacky ideas in positions of power.Children bullying one another with text messages and purveyors of daft ideas all over the web etc etc.
So it’s inevitable that major sporting events get dragged into this craziness.
In our case the derby.
We all know that Pickford’s challenge was mis-timed and reckless but it wasn’t malicious. Richarlison’s challenge was just rash. Let’s leave it at that.
88 Posted 21/10/2020 at 13:57:10
89 Posted 21/10/2020 at 13:58:09
90 Posted 21/10/2020 at 14:00:29
I can't help think this is a lose-lose for Everton - either the Reds will win without him (and think how unbearable they'd be after that); or else they won't, and guess who'll continue to be blamed for that for ever more?
91 Posted 21/10/2020 at 14:35:38
I posted this on another thread yesterday but I reckon its real place is here.
One whom Fortune's smiles have delighted overmuch, will reel under the shock of change.
Horace, Epistles I, x.30-33.
92 Posted 21/10/2020 at 14:45:24
The truth really lays things quite bare, hey?
The reaction from them is so sensationalist, so dramatic, and so out of touch with reality in what REALLY occurred, it's frankly shocking and unbelievable.
Or is it?
93 Posted 21/10/2020 at 14:55:14
94 Posted 21/10/2020 at 14:58:57
95 Posted 21/10/2020 at 15:22:55
96 Posted 21/10/2020 at 15:37:18
97 Posted 21/10/2020 at 15:46:33
98 Posted 21/10/2020 at 16:01:27
When they won the Champion's League, that was not enough for them, they had to deface St Rupert's Tower with graffiti. Not once but twice! I don't think anyone has mentioned this on this thread, but if they have and I have missed it, I apologise.
99 Posted 21/10/2020 at 16:01:31
Have to admit I got a very small bit of respect for Carragher after his comments to Souness
100 Posted 21/10/2020 at 16:19:43
101 Posted 21/10/2020 at 16:21:38
The media's response is really what got me and I know it shouldn't but the way all kinds of issues are dealt with by TV and the press these days irks me! Liverpool fans are going to be partisan and, perhaps, irrationally so just like some of us can be so while I gave them a reminder of what their players have got up to in derbies over the years, I just wanted to vent about the media as well!
102 Posted 21/10/2020 at 16:31:41
103 Posted 21/10/2020 at 16:40:12
I think we all feel the same anger specifically at the media, all I was saying is are we feeding the debate by having so many posts all discussing the same subject. I am sure that Carlo being the ultimate professional he is, will try and defuse the situation, when undoubtedly he will be asked questions about the derby match. I hope he says it was unfortunate that VVD has picked up a bad injury and wishes the lad a speedy recovery, mind knowing the media they will want to create tension between the clubs so will no doubt ask Carlo does he think Pickford should have had a red card.
104 Posted 21/10/2020 at 16:40:38
105 Posted 21/10/2020 at 16:41:58
The challenge by Pickford was a poor one but is there any sensible suggestion that it was his intention to injure? What was he supposed to do? Stand back and allow VVD a ‘tap in?’ Serious injury to any pro footballer is always regrettable but this hysteria is beyond belief.
Well done Lyndon. We should all ensure that the article is afforded its rightful place in the debate. COYB.
106 Posted 21/10/2020 at 16:42:21
God I've never agreed with any sentence more in my life.
It's permeating sports, never mind it's completely taken over "mainstream" news. There's zero objectivity. Only clickbait for money, and agenda-driven, partisan reporting. So sad.
107 Posted 21/10/2020 at 16:52:19
Silence is golden i’m aware of that, but some of the absolute shite and unadulterated hatred coming our way, from anyone but Liverpudlians, (this is quite normal, isn’t it?) really is bizarre.
Imagine Ancelotti saying, I was gutted with the decision really, because I told Pickford to go and give away a penalty, and get himself sent off, it’s not my fault the referee never saw it that way.
108 Posted 21/10/2020 at 16:55:14
109 Posted 21/10/2020 at 16:55:38
We understandably assume that these pundits are acting as Liverpool shills, but let's also remember that sports journos and pundits are, first and foremost, always besotted with superstar players. Justifiably or not (and in my opinion, not), VVD was ranked last year as the second best footballer on the planet, coming ridiculously close to outpolling Messi for the Ballon d'Or.
Could it be that all this frenzy is more connected to his superstar status? Wouldn't we be seeing the same media madness in Spanish for a similar injury to Messi? Or in German for Lewandowski?
I may be off base here, but while I don't doubt the pro-Liverpool slant of the UK footy media, I have a hard time believing that that alone accounts for all this insanity. Seems to me the shirt-rending grief and rage is exaggerated by VVD's perceived status in the game.
110 Posted 21/10/2020 at 16:57:47
We don't have one ex player that represents us with any profile. Too frequently Sky or BT have 3 or 4, us nothing. We are an uninteresting club that has injured a star player of an elite club.
Liverpool had every reason to dominate again this season, and with injuries to the keeper and Matip, and a lack of foresight in replacing Lovren its being ruined. Diddums.
111 Posted 21/10/2020 at 16:58:30
I was just going to post that cracker!
I laughed about that at the time. They wanted Ramos and Real banned forever and every European after given to them with a 3-0 win!
Brilliant stuff!!
However this one is even funnier!
It’s nit just banning they're calling for the death penalty
112 Posted 21/10/2020 at 16:59:00
113 Posted 21/10/2020 at 17:01:17
114 Posted 21/10/2020 at 17:04:08
I think it's probably a combination of the two.
It's definite rs slant bull. But the fact VVD is a "superstar", it heightens the response.
And I personally think VVD is a stupid good footballer, and football as a whole lost a damn good player. But that shit happens, and to vilify Pickford for the unfortunate outcome is just plain "blinders on, here's my narrative" garbage, ignoring what actually occurred: a hard tackle that any keeper is trained to do while coming out for a ball an protecting his box, that resulted in injury. It was not intentional, there was no intent to injure, and the hysteria is just insane.
They've seriously just lost their fucking minds, and they can't see straight.
115 Posted 21/10/2020 at 17:13:47
116 Posted 21/10/2020 at 17:20:39
Personally, I’m not against the hysteria infact I am welcoming it - I think it’s hilarious - even better not Wijnaldum come out with an outburst a few days later!
117 Posted 21/10/2020 at 17:22:43
Apart from the full spectrum of the media the average supporter of every club in the land is laughing their heads off at these idiots
If a vote were taken I bet our neighbours would be the most detested club, far and away more than their “biggest game of the season”
Let the halfwits keep it going the hatred for them will just increase
It gives The Spirit if Shankly another project to take on
118 Posted 21/10/2020 at 17:24:46
It's better to call out the conduct of the hostile media and pundits assertions for what it is.A blatant attempt to project false unfairness and manipulate perception.The authorities have given the correct response and honest pundits have called out the hipocrites.
Another reason is that Everton appears to.be the target of such attacks and not for the first time.If Related media don't then it will go unaddressed and the lies would continue and may have adverse effects on Everton.
119 Posted 21/10/2020 at 17:32:56
However, I’m simply over it all. It’s time we stopped feeding the beast, c’mon folks for those who have been around long enough this is just the same old story repeating itself through more modern mediums, there are ways to keep it from consuming your every waking minute.
Let them lose focus and let us concentrate on who will replace Richarlison and will Pickford be dropped for his appalling lack of form.
Everton, to their credit have kept their counsel and seem focused on the next game. If we want some sort of comeuppance then whilst they ‘simper in the wind’ how about we win at Southampton and hammer home our early advantage. Put the pressure firmly on the red half.
This is the crux, we have through a significant amount of breaks that have gone our way, the chance to capitalize on the next 6 weeks as we play once a week and others have a congested fixture list and weakened sides.
Let’s focus on us and making a massive impact this season rather than being drawn into a circus. Really do we care about them?
120 Posted 21/10/2020 at 17:44:36
121 Posted 21/10/2020 at 17:55:05
I was the lucky recipient of a text including photo from a friend who is a liverpool fan. The picture showed a freeze frame of Richarlison's tackle and the words 'The School of Science'. I obviously took the bait but was less eloquent and didn't have the same facts to hand that you had.
With this in mind, can you produce your articles quicker or I will have to bight my tongue in future.
What surprised me was the speed that many fans who don't follow those loveable reds jumped on the band wagon.
122 Posted 21/10/2020 at 17:59:31
He is good, but is he really as good as some say? I really can’t say on the viewings I’ve had. On those I wouldn’t say he is obviously better than any other CB.
He’s obviously an impressive physical specimen and a talented footballer but if they had better options left than Matip and Gomez then I wouldn’t expect them to be throwing in the towel just because VVD is injured.
That may be the issue; he really is that important to them, hence the hysteria from all those who care more for LFC than any other team.
I think central defence is a rapidly evolving position as the lanky lads are now a much more normalised group and less likely to be particularly unco-ordinated (a broad stereotype I know but I think there is truth in it). I think our own Jarrod Branthwaite is an example, and I hope for great things from him.
123 Posted 21/10/2020 at 18:00:35
You didnt have much to beat but thats the best bit of Journalism I have seen on the subject and I echo my fellow ToffeeWebbers appreciation of your literary talent.
You have summed up our experiences at their hands so well and professionally not once resorting to the poor insomniacs insane rantings of injustice.
Lets just hope Ajax are capable of rubbing salt in the wounds tonight.
124 Posted 21/10/2020 at 18:06:43
It’s only in slow motion and still photographs that it’s a clear red. It’s certainly no worse than the Ben Mee challenge for Burnley against Villa in January, that had the same outcome of no cards, after the VAR review, but the same ACL injury. don’t you remember all the outcry in the media!
125 Posted 21/10/2020 at 18:23:08
126 Posted 21/10/2020 at 18:38:27
127 Posted 21/10/2020 at 18:48:56
128 Posted 21/10/2020 at 18:54:52
I actually heard about it this morning from Kopites - They deffo don't like it up them.
You only have to read the responses on this thread (and I've read them all) to gauge how well it captures the feelings of Evertonians Everywhere
Thank you Lyndon.
129 Posted 21/10/2020 at 18:57:02
You can't make decisions on ifs.
130 Posted 21/10/2020 at 19:15:33
The only debating point on that incident is whether JP should have received a card and what colour. The VAR ref and Oliver appear to have said they were satisfied at the time that it didn’t warrant a sending off and the authorities have accepted that.
The only thing that is now outstanding is the revelation of how long VVD will be out for. They must have a good assessment of the injury and how the surgery went. Is there any further news on that. If not, why not? Could it be that the injury isn’t as bad as some have said but they don’t want the outrage to subside just yet?
131 Posted 21/10/2020 at 19:22:01
They also tried this pantomime albeit with less media hype against Ramos after the CL final when Salah got injured. Embarrassing then and even more so now.
Ta very much for letting the country finally understand on a large scale what utter gobshites you really are. Cant even celebrate winning the league for the first time in 30 years without trying to trash the city centre.
Hope the bastards implode. The rest of football will take great delight in watching it happen. Vile football club, vile owners and absolute gobshite fans.
132 Posted 21/10/2020 at 19:24:02
He has refused to read it.
133 Posted 21/10/2020 at 19:27:02
Sums up our feelings perfectly.
134 Posted 21/10/2020 at 19:30:50
135 Posted 21/10/2020 at 19:32:45
I’ve been fuming since the game because of the reactions of their gobshite manager, their gobshite players and their gobshite fans.
I’ve been getting into Twitter arguments with them and pointing out many of the things you’ve raise in this article but now I’m going to stop and take a step back.
Why? Because I’ve realised that the hysterical and pathetic overreaction is just them. It’s what they are and it’s how they behave. It’s just typical Kopite behaviour.
136 Posted 21/10/2020 at 19:51:00
I’m not criticising my pal, he’s a very good mate. But I was taken aback by his refusal. Mind you, he might counter that I have occasionally been jaundiced in my views!
137 Posted 21/10/2020 at 19:51:14
138 Posted 21/10/2020 at 19:55:31
139 Posted 21/10/2020 at 20:07:27
I’m surprised you think this incident wasn’t offside; I didn’t think there was any debate on that. Are you sure you are not conflating this with the one in the build up to Henderson’s goal that seemed much more marginal and debatable because Mané is actually moving away from goal and so doesn’t gain an actual advantage from his position?
140 Posted 21/10/2020 at 20:10:30
So looking back at it Everton are above this sort of behavior so to put it in a song. Silence Is Golden.
141 Posted 21/10/2020 at 20:19:12
142 Posted 21/10/2020 at 20:25:45
The two nasty challenges from us I can think of are Gary Stevens on Beglin and Funes Mori on Origi.
143 Posted 21/10/2020 at 20:27:44
144 Posted 21/10/2020 at 20:45:39
145 Posted 21/10/2020 at 20:47:30
There’s as you stated and we’ve mentioned on various TW articles about the tackles and Shenanigans of the RS in the last 50 years of Derbies.
Well I hope Ajax can reverse the current score and beat them tonight.
Onwards Evertonians, to victory at Soton.
146 Posted 21/10/2020 at 20:50:53
My LFC friends, all pretty moderate I think, have gone mental this week, to my great amusement.
I'll be saending them this article..excellent read.
In reflecting about when (in my 53yrs) EFC have been in any way successful, mid-80s, mid-90s, the one common theme I see is a real hard element within the team. VDH, Stevens, Ratters, Reidy, Sharpy most prominent, then Parkinson, Watson, Horne... without that grit and willingness to scrap, you can't win...and we plainly haven't. We've for so long been so nice, so willing to turn the other cheek and just take it. Nice little Everton, not a threat to anyone, least of all the big boys.
I seriously hope what emerges from where we are now is a consistent willingness to physically compete and "win the right to play"... anyone who's ever won consistently has done this.
The current world gloom and vacuum of any news other than Covid and the flippin US election means there's been far more interest in this particular game than is necessary...these things do just happen...it's FOOTBALL..
Without much effort at all, I reeled off a dirty dozen plus bench of RS who, for various reasons, wouldn't look out of place in a police line-up and hardly showed a "good example" to anyone resembling a decent, honest, fair human being, try these...
Grobelaar, Neal, Smith, Ruddock, Dix, Whelan, Molby, Case, Gerrard, Kuyt, Djiouf, Suarez, Souness, McMahon (ok he was ours originally), Yeats, Hughes... a few get a good mention above!
It's just too much media... and very few independent observers without vested interest.
"calm down, calm down"
147 Posted 21/10/2020 at 20:51:49
I do, though, like a little reminder every now and then of how fortunate I was to be chosen. I couldn't deal with my club (and community) resounding this way. I'm sure there are some normal reds fans who are ashamed of the public outcry.
148 Posted 21/10/2020 at 21:03:37
I particularly wish Wijnaldum would be forced to read it - and account for it - after his embarrassing comments.
149 Posted 21/10/2020 at 21:40:40
150 Posted 21/10/2020 at 21:48:54
VVD walked off unassisted. At that point, the only 'story' was no penalty/no card. At 89 mins the headline writers were poised to pen an 'honours even' piece, adding the mandatory early bath sub-header at 90 mins. Just 3 minutes later of course, 'the story' turned to the VAR-assisted chalked-off injury time 'winner'. The (ahem) big picture story finally appeared much later with the confirmation of VVD's lay off.
So how did an everyday footballing incident escalate to such a media storm and ultimately threats on players' lives?
Responsibility for fanning the flames is shared between BT mouthpieces, mainstream media, social media, Klopp, Wijnaldum, VVD's 'final piece of the title-winning jigsaw' status, the powerful, the rich, Tony Hibbert, the repeated use of the slow-mo loop, the selective freeze-frame, the absence of other news (really?).
But the flame itself is the longstanding toxic cocktail of delusion, entitlement and superiority that makes up their collective resting heart rate. A stolen result and vital cog missing due to the enemy? Throw in this sense of football injustice, stand back and enjoy the display.
Lyndon, I salute your clarity of thought and evidence-based journalism and, on balance, I'm sure we're all thankful that you did decide to post this piece as opposed to hoping its absence may see the matter fade away!
I'm also of the opinion that EFC official should keep shtum and not get involved about another team's beef about the match officials. Stay classy Blues!
151 Posted 21/10/2020 at 22:03:56
Every fan base there is always the odd dickheads. But with them its always steps too far. Sort of the "spoilt brat" attitudes. But in the media and pundits eyes. They never do anything wrong. Van Dijk goes right in on James and DCL before he was injured himself. With yes man Mcmanaman claiming to "leave his mark" but then again one of many many ex Liverpool players punditry. Media don't try and hide it. Especially Sky sports and BT.
Don't get me started on that rag. The Liverpool Echo.
152 Posted 21/10/2020 at 22:24:30
Link
153 Posted 21/10/2020 at 22:26:34
154 Posted 21/10/2020 at 22:36:58
So as you say Laurie, who is lunging at who?
155 Posted 21/10/2020 at 22:39:11
Green’s look at the precise moment Henderson connected with the ball demonstrates that JP’s view was almost entirely blocked by the not insubstantial frame of Mina. He has to essentially guess where the ball is going. Because of this he went one handed (and overstretched) for a shot he could’ve comfortably saved with two hands, maybe even held.
As a keeper you go one handed when the ball is too far to go with two, but of course you go with half the surface area. Also, because Henderson scuffs his shot, the ball bounces just before it gets to JP, kicks up slightly and spoons off his wrist. If Henderson had hit it more cleanly it could have been an easier save.
Right I’m gonna stop the forensic keeper analysis now, but I would recommend who is calling out that ‘goal’ as an example of another JP clanger to look at what he could see at the point of contact. Rob Green’s comments are bang on.
I’m not a JP apologist, IMO he fucked up with the VVD ‘challenge,’ but I think it’s helpful for us, as viewers, to remember that we’re seeing the game from the camera’s view and not from that of the players
156 Posted 21/10/2020 at 22:43:25
By the way, who else can't wait for one of their players to mistime a tackle !
In my opinion Klopp is such a pretentious person that plays to the media at every opportunity he gets.
Great article Lyndon.
157 Posted 21/10/2020 at 22:46:40
The reality here is that Pickford’s action and subsequent sideshow is quite likely to seriously threaten the clubs revival after years in the wilderness. The media were right behind us as were many neutrals fed up with the established order. That is now all reversed.
If games were not behind closed doors you could not possibly play him.
With the signing of Olsen it seems the club now has four inadequate goalkeepers. Whoever
is responsible for that wants shooting.
If Carlo is going to stick with Pickford we need to replace the goalkeeping coach with a psychiatrist.
158 Posted 21/10/2020 at 22:48:52
Say no more.
[BRZ]
159 Posted 21/10/2020 at 22:55:55
Not that professional sport will be played before live spectators any time soon, but why, Anthony?
Benching Jordan now would be the very worst thing for the club, the team, the player, that Carlo could do.
VVD and Liverpool are being cast as 'the victims' in this farce.
In truth, it is Pickford and Everton who are being sullied unjustly more.
Use this as a springboard to continue our good form.
And most certainly do not go dropping the best goalkeeper at the club. That weakens us and appeases our fellow title challengers.
160 Posted 21/10/2020 at 23:07:40
The lad does make some great saves as most keepers do but some of the best in the Prem. in recent years have had bad spells so what can you do, drop him ? Would that make him better? The case of Joe hart comes to mind here as he is one who has gone down in the reckoning and yet he was number one England keeper also.
At this stage Carlo could give Olsen his chance but he may wait until the Carabao cup.
The good thing is that Carlo has been instrumental in getting a lot more out of his players this season ( Jordan excepted) but Keane and DCL are different players.
The Pickford call early on and the last minute VAR were absolutely correct but the RS fans, management and certain pundits will carry this on until there is some similar incidents to rant on about.
161 Posted 21/10/2020 at 23:08:20
The guy on the radio said that ex- Evertonian Klassen nearly scored !
I've just seen that they play Sheff Utd next who are in dire need of points, lets hope they get stuck in!
162 Posted 21/10/2020 at 23:09:18
And that's exactly how it should be.
You don't throw your people under the bus.
You especially don't throw your people under the bus on the say so of a complete shower of gobshites!
163 Posted 21/10/2020 at 23:24:04
I would love to see a chapter 2 on why. Why do pundits and the media (both Liverpool alumni and those with no connection) treat them so favourably and when did this start? I appreciate the business need to play to the gallery given their global fanbase, and I also get how the existence of social media exacerbates the situation, but why are the media so keen to curry favour? The same favourable treatment does not apply to the same extent elsewhere. Sure Man U generate a lot of media coverage, and have their own army of armchair, fair-weather fans, but they aren’t given a free pass in the same way. So why is that?
164 Posted 21/10/2020 at 23:27:05
It confirms that Liverpool FC, their players and many of their supporters are utterly blinded by a self regard that is beyond decency. Grown men foaming at the mouth over a sporting accident. They, and the semi articulate pundits who encourage them, are devoid of integrity and are removed from reality in a manner that is, frankly, obscene.
165 Posted 21/10/2020 at 00:05:13
I do hope Carlo addresses Klopp in his press conference, for a 'friend', in his European press conference, to accuse two professional footballers of deliberately injuring his players, is an attack on EFC, and all former players writing for the Echo, resign.
166 Posted 21/10/2020 at 00:05:17
167 Posted 22/10/2020 at 00:07:22
168 Posted 22/10/2020 at 00:13:35
169 Posted 22/10/2020 at 00:26:01
I'm sure you realise that there were many other threads about Saturday and Pickford, in which you could have aired your views, but you chose to hi-jack this superb article by Lyndon in order to put forward your dislike or mistrust of Jordan Pickford,
Many would agree with your view, but this shouldn't have been the thread to air those views, because this article was about much much more than a single incident from Saturday's game.
170 Posted 22/10/2020 at 00:42:43
171 Posted 22/10/2020 at 00:54:12
If / when you have a copper-bottomed solution please post it.
172 Posted 22/10/2020 at 00:56:51
173 Posted 22/10/2020 at 01:04:28
What if the new guy actually turns out to be worse?
174 Posted 22/10/2020 at 01:08:46
175 Posted 22/10/2020 at 01:17:32
But Chris #172, Si is right. Carlo sees his keepers in training, including the new guy. He picks Picks. Every time. And until we lose a game this season, I'd say Carlo's credibility is pretty solid.
176 Posted 22/10/2020 at 01:49:21
He has to be of a certain minimum standard or a few somebody's need a severe arse kicking.
Therefore, if Pickford isn't hitting the minimums at the moment then the new guy must come in.
So which is it? Pickford doesn't have his VVD & Henderson moments...but this also means he doesn't make those 3 or 4 saves he did make which had 'goal' all over them.
Ancelotti is playing the overall percentage game...until Pickford gets injured or totally loses it in a West / Keflavik manner... he's in ahead of the Olsens, Mimms or Rankins...just maybe - but, none the less, In.
And also I think Ancelotti has a duty to publicly back Pickford by keeping him in this weekend.
177 Posted 22/10/2020 at 02:10:47
178 Posted 22/10/2020 at 02:53:30
I told them, they have been enjoying lots of favorable decisions on their route to win the league last season. as usual..denial after denial... quite difficult to reason with Reds fans even for quite some close friends. COYB
179 Posted 22/10/2020 at 07:32:21
Liverpool are threatened by us. Clearly the media are threatened by us. Good. They'll be ready for us next Derby and I have a feeling we'll be just as ready for them.
The club is playing a blinder by saying nothing. It shows we have the class they'll never have. No point in negotiating with arseholes.
Like 1985 all over again. We're top of the league, the reds are whinging and battling with the Tories in the 'Who can be the biggest c**ts' competition.
Only difference is I'm not 21!
To Southampton on Sunday. Carlo's unbeaten, fear-creating, don't take no shit Everton march on.
180 Posted 22/10/2020 at 08:10:58
181 Posted 22/10/2020 at 08:41:20
182 Posted 22/10/2020 at 09:05:37
He flew out in the same out of control manner but Dele jumped out of the way.
The type of thing you could find ten times in every game of football!
183 Posted 22/10/2020 at 09:13:54
184 Posted 22/10/2020 at 09:23:54
He also made one truly wondrous save from the freekick that few keepers would have got to.
I say we get behind him. At least with no fans he won't have to suffer the usual abuse.
It's time to circle the wagons and support all of our players, and Pickford's future is a subject for Carlo to ponder at the end of the season, unless his form goes seriously awry.
185 Posted 22/10/2020 at 09:43:39
This thread is about the extreme response of LFC and the bias of the media.
I think it’s important to keep focus on that, since this is a significant issue for football.
186 Posted 22/10/2020 at 10:35:59
that's the thought that struck me, when you watch the incident at the weekend. What the hell was VVD going into a coming together like that with two straight legs. Clearly as a defender he just wasnt' in his natural habitat, and left himself wide open to an accident happening. that may sound harsh, but keepers do fly out all of the time, I've yet to see a forward freeze like that and let the keeper come on to his straight leg. That's why the forward jumps clear in a scenario like that, and the central defender ends up injured.(whoops yes prob wrong thread(
187 Posted 22/10/2020 at 11:00:52
188 Posted 22/10/2020 at 11:21:20
189 Posted 22/10/2020 at 11:51:24
We didn't take it and they didn't like that one bit. The extreme response reflects their fear for the future and we should take exactly the same approach in future matches.
190 Posted 22/10/2020 at 11:55:32
191 Posted 22/10/2020 at 12:01:35
It is way beyond reasonable and the sooner they take their Nivea and piss off to the European 5 team Superleague the better and the journo's pundits and braindead fans follow them.
Great piece of TRUE Journalism Lyndon.
192 Posted 22/10/2020 at 12:02:17
There has also been some questions on Twitter as to which knee was busted and which knee had been giving Virgil pain in recent games. All a little shady methinks.
194 Posted 22/10/2020 at 12:20:42
Anyone minded to set up a petition?
195 Posted 22/10/2020 at 12:43:44
196 Posted 22/10/2020 at 12:47:20
197 Posted 22/10/2020 at 13:00:36
198 Posted 22/10/2020 at 13:32:02
199 Posted 22/10/2020 at 13:33:43
— Andrew (@ZEAndrewHD) October 18, 2020
200 Posted 22/10/2020 at 13:50:47
201 Posted 22/10/2020 at 14:25:27
202 Posted 22/10/2020 at 15:15:59
203 Posted 22/10/2020 at 15:25:07
Perry Groves? Whee on Earth did they dig him up from? He was sort of the Arsenal equivalent to Stuart Barlow.
204 Posted 22/10/2020 at 15:38:48
Once again their luck returned as they got the luckiest own goal Ive ever seen and Ajax hit the post and had one cleared off the line.
No doubt we will be getting daily updates of Virgil leaving hospital and Virgil on crutches etc.
205 Posted 22/10/2020 at 16:40:17
206 Posted 22/10/2020 at 16:45:51
Can we get headline news status and worldwide coverage for the - do you think?
207 Posted 22/10/2020 at 16:47:40
The way this has been going, I believe the defence of our player, followed by the reference to VD's earlier tackle on James, became necessary.
208 Posted 22/10/2020 at 17:16:53
We at Villa had a similar incident occur against Burnley on New Years Day this year, when a tackle by Ben Mee on Wesley, resulted in a ACL injury, which he is still out injured, went totally unpunished. I could understand a yellow card being given, injuries will always happen in football, that is the nature of the beast, but Mee didn't receive one.
Liverpool and all the other so called big six, seem to have a love in with the press, referees and pundits, the rest of the Premiership are not playing on a level playing field.
I hope James Rodriguez gets over his injury soon, and we'll see his skills in the coming matches.
209 Posted 22/10/2020 at 17:37:47
There’s no chance at all Hugh as I think you know! Personally, I’m also glad that Carlo has come to Pickfords defence. I would have liked him to have added “ a mistimed tackle by VD on James. These things happen in football as we all know. I’m sure It wasn’t premeditated by VD”.
When we all know it was.
210 Posted 22/10/2020 at 17:46:37
211 Posted 22/10/2020 at 18:30:37
Taking the Knee
212 Posted 22/10/2020 at 18:46:13
213 Posted 22/10/2020 at 19:04:37
You must be like us Evertonians, desperate to get back in the ground, and although I’m glad you absolutely destroyed Liverpool, I’m gutted that you Villa fans were not in the stadium to witness such a fantastic performance.
Hopefully better days are ahead for our two teams Al, the oldest fixture in top flight football, even if the EPL turned Everton’s request down, when they asked to play Villa first, when we was the first club to reach 100 seasons in the top flight. Best of luck to The Villa!
214 Posted 22/10/2020 at 19:09:44
215 Posted 22/10/2020 at 19:26:41
I'm hoping Carlo is making more of James' injury, to reinforce that injuries can occur accidentally and that he may at least be on the bench. 🤞
217 Posted 23/10/2020 at 06:53:58
About Jimmy Case it reads - Case by name, hard case by nature. Case was the epitome of a tough tackler in the 1970s for Liverpool.
The local lad is detested by Everton fans for a tackle on Geoff Nulty in the 1980 Merseyside derby. Case prematurely ended Nulty’s footballing career with the tackle, stimulating abhorrence from the Goodison faithful. In his autobiography, Case alludes to the tackle, dismissing it as a mere clash of knees, in which his knee was stronger. Nulty, devastated by the demise of his injury ridden career, employed solicitors who issued a writ to Case.
The former Liverpool midfielder states he still has no regrets over the tackle and thrived off the stick from the Everton fans subjected towards him after the tackle.
They actually revel in it !! You couldn't write it but they actually do.
218 Posted 23/10/2020 at 08:01:23
219 Posted 23/10/2020 at 08:13:24
In his last year with the Reds, after reaching the semi-final of the European Cup, the Reds faced Romanian champions Dinamo Bucharest. The first leg at Anfield will never be remembered for the result as a Sammy Lee goal secured a 1-0 win. Instead, controversy transpired when Souness appeared to punch Dinamo’s Lica Movila in an off the ball incident, consequently breaking the Romanian’s jaw.
Nonetheless Souness oozed composure and class as he put in a man of the match performance in the second leg in Bucharest, in front of a raucous reception scolding the Scot following the incident.
"Appeared to". More likely definitely did punch the Dinamo player, I mean how else could he have got a broken jaw? I assume souness wasn't even sent off for the incident, as he played in the second leg.
221 Posted 23/10/2020 at 13:01:17
Still one of the best articles I have read for a long time.
222 Posted 23/10/2020 at 15:01:43
Everton and Villa, two proper clubs with proper fans. Hope we're both at the top end of the table when the season ends, although a mid table position for the Villa would be more realistic.
223 Posted 23/10/2020 at 15:29:01
Just noted on Lawros Picks on BBC Sport website, that he predicts a 2 nil loss for EFC and the BBC have a video shot of the Devil Destroying St VVD, which when you play it, takes us to last Sundays MOTD2 and the only Red Smurph - one D. Murphy, talking about it - YET AGAIN !!!
224 Posted 23/10/2020 at 15:57:29
225 Posted 23/10/2020 at 16:29:01
Thank you.
226 Posted 23/10/2020 at 20:39:37
227 Posted 23/10/2020 at 20:55:41
Funny how, even after all these years of differing fortunes, you can't erase our class or their vulgarity. I think they know it, which is why they get so angry.
228 Posted 23/10/2020 at 21:49:32
229 Posted 23/10/2020 at 21:56:18
230 Posted 23/10/2020 at 22:08:48
231 Posted 23/10/2020 at 22:15:52
Don't you know your Old Testament?
232 Posted 23/10/2020 at 22:29:48
Bold Virgil, imperious, smote the foe in blue,
James and Lewin laid low in the first few
Moments; he ventured North, said the prize is mine.
Like the Red Sea, the blue defences parted.
The Dutchman waded in to the storm tossed waves.
There, confronted by the red haired Minotaur,
Renowned for his daring and fabulous saves,
Flying from his nets, arms and legs wide apart,
A monstrous hydra, leaping high, did roar:
‘The royal blue Jordan river shall not be crossed.’
The Van lay broken. The Dyke was breached.
Thereafter flowed an inundation of lies.
For Virgil would not sail for all the season,
Left with neither ligament nor cartilage.
His men curse their enemies without reason.
His care rests with Dido from Carthage.
233 Posted 24/10/2020 at 16:53:04
234 Posted 25/10/2020 at 09:48:15
I recently read two books on Greek mythology by Stephen Fry, Mythos, and Heroes. The first starts with the beginning of everything, and the second deals with Heracles et al. I'm hoping he writes a third book, covering the Trojan War, which would then lead on to the Aeneid, and that poem, or at least its original form! I've previously read The Iliad and The Odyssey, but this is new. Good stuff, thanks for posting it!
235 Posted 25/10/2020 at 10:29:14
Who cares ? We have a game today
236 Posted 25/10/2020 at 10:33:58
237 Posted 25/10/2020 at 10:36:06
238 Posted 25/10/2020 at 11:06:28
I sit there and watch it, and they replay/replay/replay the slightest touch, or incident as though it's a huge deal - thus making it into a huge deal. The media and technology available are what's killing the game.
Football has become so non-contact, and so sanitised that everything is under the microscope - it must be crap to play in. Stressful for players and managers due to the level of investigation into every breath players take during games now.
Watching old games during lockdown, the game was so much more watchable 10 years ago. Even 5 years ago. Now it's stressful, and nothing is certain until it's been dissected down to the millimetre - the moment they introduced all the technology, football as we all know it, died a death.
Remove all the tech, and get the game back. Just because we have the technology, doesn't mean we should use it the way it's being implemented.
239 Posted 25/10/2020 at 11:12:03
Get a grip Murphy, the shite is getting worse by the day
240 Posted 25/10/2020 at 13:59:47
HI Tony [239] these so-called pundits must have good agents, because not many were what I would describe as exceptional players. Any supporter could sit in a studio and tell the world what a player 'should have done', how many times have you heard, "He should have been 'finger tight'' or "He was too tight"? You and I plus our ToffeeWeb colleagues could provide that kind of comment free of charge. I'm off to the spare room to listen to the Radio Merseyside commentary, and no doubt I'll be informed of what "They should have done"
241 Posted 27/10/2020 at 14:03:45
Picfords I’ll timed challenge on Virgil van Dyke. Regrettably this caused a fairly serious injury but in itself was hardly a two footed studs up lunge. The media outcry was tantamount to calling For Pickford to be hung drawn and quartered.
Now we look back to Son’s challenge on Gomes. What do we get, a great outpouring of sympathy for Son because he was so upset.
242 Posted 27/10/2020 at 14:25:29
It's managed to make the game worse not better.
Now we have tinkering with the laws to help VAR...just get rid VAR and whoever is giving the Reffs their instructions and interpretations, because they're just as much to blame too.
243 Posted 02/11/2020 at 13:59:05
Why doesn't Carlo and are Club shame that vermon and come out and say why Pickford wasn't in the right frame of mind and who's fault that is?
244 Posted 04/11/2020 at 17:09:15
Guess what, not a single story was run on his comment.
Even now though they are still running the story on the tackle, get over it, Heath, Bracewell and Nulty have faced far worse injuries, Parkinson, Snodin, Oviedo, Coleman, Gomes, Southall, the list is endless.
They have their first long term injury as far back as I can remember and suddenly it is an outrage.
It happens, get over it.
245 Posted 04/11/2020 at 17:18:32
What do the press do, they get a lip reader who says he said something else in Portuguese.
What they do not mention is and I am trying to remember if it was Coleman or Kenny who walked in front of the player as the words were said, blocking the tv cameras.
Suddenly it was Holgate who was made out to be a liar and the press slated him so much, that his form dipped and he was taken out of the first team for a while.
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1 Posted 21/10/2020 at 08:33:51
Of my opinion RS just of some spoiled brats backed up by some ingenious adults over some trivial matters under a microscopic vision with 10000x magnification. Grow up RS