Has anyone else seen enough?

It's a very frustrating time for many match-goers as if we win a run of games we don't get to celebrate in a full-throated manner and if we fail to win a number of games there is nothing to break-up the pattern and it seems like one long bad weekend.

Both scenarios are usually helped by the downing of a few beers in the company of our mates and that helps to keep us level-headed in both cases.

As for the media, I really would like to know what Jordan has done to upset them, it's not his fault he gets picked for England, it's not his fault that Everton paid big money for him, and the level of villification by the press is usually reserved for cheating politicians and their ilk.

In an interview with Horace Yates on the eve of the 1959-60 campaign, Everton manager Johnny Carey said he believed that a European League which would be run alongside the Football League was one way in which standards would be improved.

On gamesmanship and all that the Carey view is that too many managers condemn it publicity and condone it in private. There should be managerial discipline for players who infringe the laws and use tactics which bring the game into disrepute.

The tendency is to over emphasize the ability of those we saw when we were young. There were bad teams had players, bad referees before the war, don't forget. Extraordinary, ‘isn't it, how we remember only the good things of the pass and scarcely over give a through to what wasn't so good?

Everton' have been very patient and he asks them to be patient a little longer. Then they can expect results from the Carey plan to play attractive football designed to win matches.

He is working hard on the old Everton principle that the fundamental football is football with the ball on the turf. Too many passes go adrift he thinks. Too many big clearance kicks make defenders work easy where the slow, but sure ground approach pulls them this way and that and leaves em gasping. Football crowds are learning to appreciate and applaud football artistry whether it is collective up individual. “The fans pay to see good football says Carey, “and it's my job to see they get it.”

Surprisingly, to me at any rate. was the mention of disturbances on the continent when English / British clubs travelled for games in Europe. That old saying of the more things change the more they remain the same?

Penalties for absolutely nothing, going to ground with every featherlight touch, players given offside for pointing where they want the pass to go. How to kill a wonderful game without really trying.

Until such time as I am back at Goodison I will take little interest in this ersatz product. A good piece of writing – thanks.

The same ridiculous pundits, wittering platitudes and only getting riled up when their once upon time employer gets a bad call. Can anyone actually name a pundit who is unbiased and knows what he/she is talking about because I can't. 14 teams in EPL play each season to make sure they are in it next season. If anyone of them do really well their team is picked apart by the top 6 the following season as there is no loyalty any more. Kante / Drinkwater to Chelsea, Marhez to City after Leicester won the Premier League.

Then there is the style of football itself. Passing backwards / sideways umpteen times and then back to the goalkeeper and start again. It can be soul-destroying to watch. The goal kick rule has lead to this business of lots of passes just to get the ball up to the bloody half-way line!!! When a team does score from a long ball, as on Saturday, it's called "Route 1" as though Route 1 is a dinosaur that should be left back in the Jurassic age. I always thought putting the ball in the net was the be all and end all of football but perhaps I'm just a grumpy old man these days.

Alls I know is football is not as exciting and competitive as it once was. The EPL is just like Scottish football but on steroids. The most competitive league in European football is the English Championship. Who would have thought that Reading would be top and Derby bottom come November.

Then there is the Champions League – what a joke. You can actually become, supposedly, the best team in Europe, without actually being the best team in your own country. You can even get to the final without actually having won your own domestic league title since 1961 - Spurs. As I said a joke and yet because of the riches involved it's what the top 6 all crave. Sometimes I think "What's the point?"

To me, it's not a man's game anymore, especially when it pays to cheat. Add to that the fawning over the Sky darlings makes me sick. Once upon a time, players took and gave the hard knocks and we're straight back up and played on.

Look at the rubbish over Jordan's tackle on Van Dijk... of course, nothing said about how Van Dijk tried to do James twice in the first 5 minutes.

Slowly, the game is dying, and especially when it's stripped of the match-going fans. It is what it is, 20 teams in the Premier League... no I'm wrong! – It's the Sky Six, plus 14 others to make up the numbers.

I watch more rugby now - all action, honest players, constant attacking, referees respected. Just my personal preference.

Thanks for the article

The roboticlike passing sideways and backwards has been bad enough to stomach for quite sometime but the VAR system is becoming ludicrous and so confusing to players and fans alike.

I have to admit some of the hairline decisions have to be sorted out especially the offsides and handballs.

Crucify me if you will but if I was RS fan I would have been pissed no end at the last minute Henderson goal in the derby game and the goal Bamford had disallowed for Leeds because he signalled with his arm and was called offside.

The law should be changed to one of ''clear daylight'' between players, not where your knee, elbow or any other part of your body is. This is just splitting hairs and if they change this rule then it will be easier for the pitch officials to call it.

On top of all that I despise the constant playacting to gain freekicks or even getting a player a card.. Many players just can't resist using their hands and arms to stop an opponent and I for one would like to see this infringement punished mor often in the penalty box. There is hardly a corner kick taken where the referee hasn't had to go into a crowd of players who are pushing and pulling each other and tell them not to be naughty. The referee should just ignore it then call a penalty every time as soon as the kick is taken.

I know the possession side of the game won't change because that is now ingrained into the coaching side of things sadly but at least get the rest of our game in order.

When I do watch, I have tended to focus increasingly only on Everton games, paying diminishing attention to other clubs. But even this has become harder, since constantly having raised expectations and then having them crushed wears you down.

It is no coincidence that there seems to be more "diving" since the introduction of rule changes to take out the physical side of the game. The slide tackle and full backs getting their shoulder in front of a wingers before sliding across are lost "arts". There are times when I long to see a tricky winger stand up the full back, hit the byline and put a cross in for a big centre forward to rise and hit the back of the net rather than this "five-a-side" stand up face to face tackling football.

Which brings me back to an earlier point, a lot of teams seem unable to play more than one style of play. One of the beauties of the Holy Trinity team was that they could open up opposition defences going through the middle or by a winger putting a cross in for a dominant centre forward, in the days when "parking the bus" and "KITAP-1" were known as packed defences.

Having said that, a lot of rule changes, or more attention to detail and letter of the rule rather than the spirit of it, have been introduced to make football more attractive in those Leagues were defence dominated but has unfortunately changed the more watchable and exciting Leagues.

Refs are poor because they lack consistency, and this also leads me to question the integrity of the officials, and with some of the ridiculous yellow cards we see nowadays, then surely football needs a three card system, or even a sin-bin.

See I'm prepared to move with the times, but punish the cheating please, or is it just a reflection on modern times?

There are no characters in the modern game, players are all automatons, processed on the training ground, and removed of any flair that they may have, bar a few.

I can't say that I have seen enough, but I can say that my viewing opinion has changed, as the game has changed. For fear of being branded a Dinosaur, I have moved with the times, perhaps not as happy with the game I grew up with!

Bollocks, the real reason being they probably have better quality players on their bench than the majority of teams, and therefore can seek a clear advantage over opponents late in the game by bringing on quality subs.

I'll tell you what, Pep and Bingo, let's revert back to only allowing two subs per game, or even better only one when the game was a real game, and see how you like that!!

We've been moving away from it being a contact sport for some time now. Look at Saturdays game, half of those ‘fouls' were nothing more than two players challenging. As long as the darlings Liverpool, Chelsea, United and City are winning things in this over-commercialised ‘sport' nothing will ever change. Make sure you renew Sky Sports and buy FIFA every year lads!

Today's premiership football is the best standard ever. The players are masters of the trade, the speed of the game, the tactics and the pitches are at an all time high. The officials and var are killing the game.

Bizarre penalties, a handball rule that nobody understands, offsides that are far to close to call. Goals being chalked off all add to the detriment of the game.

Mourinho said after a Spurs win last week that "he wants his football back" in a dig at the way the game is now being run.

The rules encourage cheats, cynical fouls and diving with any form of physical contact deemed a foul.

At one time I found these games to be a bit hard to watch as they could be somewhat kick and rush, but the standard has risen markedly. There is a lot of good football on show, cheating is treated with scorn by players and fans, the referees's decision is final, and there is a much greater rapport between players, officials and supporters. The players give their all.

After the game, you find yourself quite easily having a chat with a player, the ref, a chairman or an opposing fan.

I've been going to Goodison for nearly 60 years, I meet family and friends by going there, the prospect of giving it up is difficult. But I have to confess I am enjoying watching proper footy at non-league level much more. And all this comes at a bargain price. I recommend giving it a try.

Love Peter Mills's way of watching football and the obvious enjoyment he gets out of all aspects of going to these games. All my life I've watched football from the top games to grass roots football and loved it, especially the Corinthian spirit of the game, play and watch football for the love of the game, sadly a good proportion of that spirit has left football and the game is all the worse for it.

But it hardly matters the game will continue in some weird form and we'll all be dead soon.

I always hoped I would experience the sheer joy of witnessing my team parading a trophy around this city again. Just one more time before I bow out.
Like all blues over fifty, I've been forced to realign my dreams. We used to start each season believing winning a trophy was a probability. These days we realise in merely a possibility, a remote one at that.

Watching our teams decline over the decades would have been painful enough, but we are witnessing the decline of the game itself. It's becoming unwatchable at times. Every new law seems to be introduced with intention of out-stupiding the last one.

Being a thing of beauty, football has always been in the eye of the beholder. There were very few cut-n-dried cases. So much was open to interpretation. It was part of the magic. Every controversial decision on Saturday would be debated vigorously in alehouses all of the country on Sunday.
If you got a particularly questionable decision in a big match involving Us or the Shite, places like the dockers club would sound like a fucking zoo on Sunday Avy...God I loved it.

Those who don't understand the game have tried to eliminate the talking points. They wanted to ditch interpretation in pursuit of the definitive answer. They wanted irrefutable proof. Video evidence.
Having introduced video evidence. They have now discovered what many of us could have told them in the first place. The decisions are still in the eye of the beholder, still open to interpretation.
Ask 10 different people to view an incident 10 times and you could easily have 10 different conclusions.
The problem has been confounded by allowing complete twats to make season defining calls. You could easily be forgiven for believing the powers that be, have rounded up the most gormless fuckers in the country and asked them to be Video refs.

Of course interpretation still prevails. Only now we have twat laws being interpreted by twats..And they are taking an eternity to reach their twat conclusions.

I blame the Yanks

There were dirty players and cheating back then. I remember Francis Lee being a leading exponent of diving for a penalty, and Jimmy Husband having his ankle broken by Dave McKay. Dirty play is no worse than it ever was, but the cheating has definitely become worse and is now on an industrial scale.

Your last sentence is brutally true, in which case we need to start winning trophies pronto.

There has always been cheating & skulduggery in the 50 plus years I've been watching the game. And there has always been confirmation bias in the media, it's just that these days, there is more media, it runs the game and the outlets are competitive.

There is a perception, real or otherwise, that people have a shower attention span these days. So there has to be load music & announcements to create the atmosphere we used to make ourselves. There has to be artificial 'drama' inserted into the game to make it more 'exciting', with an extra layer of poor decision-making to add more 'narrative' after the game.

Football has become too greedy, too reliant on artificial 'drama' and largely meaningless statistics that measure what can be measured. The players are fitter and stronger, but I'd argue that that often makes the game too fast for its in good.

Still, eh, if we win at Fulham and get back to our early-season form, we'll put this to one side, won't we?

VAR has ruined the game for me. Like Peter Mills I much prefer watching matches below Premier League level. In normal times in between following our club home and away I fill the blank Saturdays visiting Leagues One and Two as well as the National League and below. Last season I saw games at Wycombe, Maidenhead, Crawley, Boreham Wood, Salford City, Burscough and Oxford. Supporters at all these clubs still follow their clubs passionately, can enjoy a relaxed pint of decent beer before and after the match and celebrate goals without waiting for an emotion stifling message on a screen informing them of a VAR check. At the smaller clubs fans also form a closer bond with the players than we ever could with the closeted multi millionaires running (sometimes) around Goodison.

It will be interesting to see if and how the growing disenchantment with the game at top level manifests itself when stadia are reopened to fans. I think the game's governing authorities and clubs would be wise not to take it for granted that everything will revert to the pre-Covid-19 norm.

We simply have access to more games, more angles, more media, more talking points. A level of unprecedented scrutiny. That's applied to all walks of life. Football is no different. Pining for some purer product way back is just indulgent, apply the same scrutiny to those games and you'll find the same issues.

If VAR was around back then, we'd probably have a league cup in our cabinet, Marwood would have been sent off, we might not even have a World Cup to celebrate?

The only way to watch most games decades again was at the match from a static viewpoint. The referee's made the same errors albeit with different rules, but without the scrutiny and your chance to say ‘gotcha' with the aid of 20 TV angles.

The game will become more binary, the laws will narrow, despite my own wailing and gnashing, it won't change. It's become that way because of our collective thirst to see our team on the TV, one will follow the other. If TV gives you more views naturally you cannot ignore obvious mistakes. There is no hiding place, you change the laws to remedy it.

Look at goal line tech. Fifa were utterly embarrassed with Lampard's ‘goal' in 2010 and it was addressed due to the worldwide audience.

These pages are littered with utter contempt for officials who get less angles than you do to view the game with, it's the players who game, cheat and play act. Yet they get the heat, the managers who coach this type of brinkmanship receive no criticism. They push the laws to their limits, and then bitch about it!

I would of course modify the laws, but only to the point of affects a team's behavior, if there is no value in simulation or initiating contact then it will stop. At the moment the laws allow for it and its exploited. To think a legend of a bygone era wouldn't do if they had the chance?...of course they would.

I bet Clive Thomas would have ripped his earpiece out and smashed the pitch side screen at Maine Road that day!

Well at least you won't strain your eyes reading anything.

If you haven't dropped the note off yet, ask him about his failure as an Everton director and owner for the last 30 years – he may be able to answer that one quicker given his direct involvement in the debacle.

I've been trying but it's like an addiction and those 7 games just sucked me back in. The game has disappeared from the roots that fixed fans like us down to it and how it should still attract us is beyond me.

The ruination, of course, is those that, like me, watch the games on Sky or BT and contribute to the obscene wages and the resulting cheating. I'm going to try again to break the addiction and I hope that you won't see me on here again. Some chance.

No man is and island, unless you're Clive Thomas. 😭

Oddly, the line went dead as I asked, "Are the tickets ring-fenced?"

Nurse, have I shown you this?

Those saying they derive more enjoyment from their local non-league teams, I totally get where you are coming from. At least the results are not fixed.

The other 14 clubs serve only as a side dish to the Sky big six. The league table is almost irrelevant as the big six stay the big six. VAR was invented to secure very convenient results.

Kenwright has succeeded in ruining my love for Everton. I'll not set foot in Goodison – there's no new ground by the way – until he has gone.

Some good football to watch too. Won the West Cheshire a couple of season ago but not been a match played in God knows how long.

Cheers Mike. Sobered up after the celebrating?

Waiting on my email for matchday experience survey at Bramley-Moore Dock.

Rooney's BROTHER scores an incredible FA Cup goal from inside his OWN HALF to emulate Manchester United and England legend's two half-way line goals against West Ham

John has a similar waistline to Wayne but much better hair.

And as to our celebration... there was great glee but no alcohol involved here. On Election Day, my Sarah was subject to a racial insult from the Trumpies down the block, and she's keeping me away from the booze (and the guns) until she's sure I'm cool. Wise woman.

The rules of the game are supposed to be the same for a team in the premier league as well as the leagues below, for example. Yet the teams in the Premier League are allowed a distinctive advantage in regards to relegation, but teams in the Championship are denied this advantage in promotional battles.

This is my distinct criticism of VAR, that it is not being used to force the rules of the game it is strictly being used for financial gains. It also ruins a live match experience where before when you've seen the net bulge, the ground erupted with a show of emotion, and now you have to wait 2 minutes to be told a player's toes was offside and you become deflated.

Discussions over a pint in the pub must now be accompanied with a video recorder. This VAR was not introduced to enforce the laws of the game, it is used to increase media profits. Enforcing the laws or rules should be in effect from the grassroots upwards.

What I find most depressing is not the action of the cheat but the willingness of refs etc to be so easily duped.

I watched a re-run of Chelsea v Man Utd in 1970 a week or so ago and it really hit me. This is the game I fell in love with. Poor pitches, robust challenges, players staying on their feet and after they were bundled to the ground, getting up straight away. And maybe importantly, I recognised the players involved. Have always had a deep loathing for both teams involved but I felt some connection to the individuals on the pitch.

On the bigger issue here, I don't wish to slight anyone expressing grief for our footballing fortunes but we need to find our inner Dave Watson here and get right. I know, Everton that and all, but honestly I think the reason it hurts so much is that we know we're really close to becoming the football force we know Everton is.

We're on our way but "Really close"? ... miles off, buddy, until we can build a squad that can sustain a few injuries.

Bernard and Sigurdsson cannot affect a game on their own but give them some intelligent runs and they can find people. Someone to come in for Allan or Doucouré (Gbamin maybe) and a striker in January and we could be a decent squad with some depth.

Of course the crazy wages have increased the disparity between the lads we cheer on, and us mere plebs. The alice bands, elaborate tattoos, and male grooming obsessions that this narcissistic slice of society enjoy, spliced with the diving, squealing and imaginary card-waving certainly bear little resemblance to the game I play on a Sunday.

I want to see skill and I don't want the likes of Richarlison to be prematurely removed from the game through bad tackling. What I do object to is the cheating, the regular "there was contact" comments when Mane theatrically collapses at the brush of a thigh.

The VAR could be a weapon for good, it could prevent injustices. However, there is no joined-up thinking and we see a lack of consistency.

We should follow rugby, have a TMO who can alert the on-field officials of foul play and stop the game. A time-keeper and the big screen with incidents replayed in the ground and the ref's conversation with the TMO audible.

One other thing that annoys me is when a team have a man sent off, they often make a sub and have a tactical change. I would like a 20-minute period where no subs were allowed after a sending-off. The introduction of 3 fresh players can make-up for the loss of a tiring one even when down to ten men.

The same criticism applies to the media, who definitely favour a few select clubs over the rest.

If we are to accept that the Premier League is the best in the world, then we should demand that the officials are the best in the world and that the reporting (publicity) is also first class and even-handed.

I won't hold my breath but, given the money in the Premier League, can we bring in top referees from around the world?
COYB.

At every incident with Fernandes going down the commentators were saying that 'contact entitles the player to go down', but when Fernandes committed a foul it was despicable that the Everton players were over-reacting to get Fernandes sent off.

I think the Pickford incident has damaged the team more than just Pickford himself.

Unfortunately the refs and the FA did nothing to nip it in the bud and now it's de rigueur that a player spends more time on his arse than on his feet.

I'm must come across as a lunatic, but when Mike Dean, (two sons have Liverpool season tickets, and he's allowed to ref them?????????????????????) gave Sheffield Utd a free kick, he looked like he was about to burst into tears when it was upgraded to a penalty by VAR. (possibly his mate in the var room was just having a laugh because he knows he's a Liverpudlian)

Anyway he turned down two other pens in the same game, one of which was blatant, and Firminho also scored an offside equalizer, none of which must have been checked by VAR?

What was the story at the end of the game? Hard done by Liverpool overturn another bad decision to come from behind to win, it's a fucking conspiracy!

I love tactics but one thing I dislike is the focus on systems, which invariably consist of denying the opposition any of the ball, either by monotonous possession (tiki taka) or relentless counterpress. The former can result in sterile, one-sided play and the latter prioritizes stamina, workrate and running ability. I felt a bit sad reading James talking about how the no.10 is a dying position in football.

They need to have 5 subs so they can keep the players fresher to be able to win games in the Premiership so they can qualify to play in Europe the next season.

Take it away back to 3 subs and then with this shortened time season with the same number of games then they may not get onto the European Gravy train and some other team may coin in the riches. It is simply about making sure their clubs nose is firmly in the trough and no other can get a nibble. Nothing more, nothing less.

No wonder football is becoming a bit nauseating, because let's face it Klopp is not alone, but a man who hates injustice, obviously just means for his own team? What a contradictory remark.

Klopp is serious... sadly.

Regarding playacting/simulation/exaggerated injuries etc - I've said it before and I'll say it again - if a player needs a physio on the pitch they must have a least two or three minutes off the pitch before re-entering play.

There is also great sportsmanship shown – a word that no longer exists in football. Commentators and pundits just enjoying each shot and no bias to one player over another. This year, like all sports, there will be no fans allowed onto the course. But, when they are allowed in, by and large, the behaviour is impeccable, and to think the only thing preventing them getting closer to the players is a piece of string.

I still marvel how so many people can be so quiet when a player takes his shot or putt. And because it's being played in November rather than in April, there are no Everton games to distract me, pure heaven.

I'm afraid my allegiance to the Blues goes back a long way; to the early '60s in fact. My last visit to Goodison Park was in the Martinez era; a home 0-0 draw with Swansea. That game broke me. It was so uninspiring lacking in creativity and poorly managed on and off the pitch. Why had I set off by coach from the Midlands at 9 am in order to get home 12 hours later for that?

I vowed never to return. The team and the overall game would have to significantly improve to lure me back to the ground where I had enjoyed so many wonderful games, particularly during the 1960s when I was a season ticket holder.

The present game has been massacred by monetary greed allied to bloated administrative bureaucracies that have tinkered with the rules, and placed TV revenues before anything else. I am not someone who fundamentally objects to talent being appropriately rewarded but only in the context of displaying commitment, skill and sportsmanship. Hence the greater attraction of seeing the worlds best golfers playing across the globe on TV, as Brian @75 points out. Incidentally, their rewards are inherently geared to their performances. In football at the elite level the opposite applies over the term of any contract.

One further issue has now confirmed my no more than casual interest in the game. It was picked up by the Telegraph on the final back page item of the Sports Supplement the other week. I think it goes under the heading Final Whistle. The writer highlighted the disturbing trend amongst "supporters" to let rip via social media following games which for the most part have been seen on TV. It comes mainly in the form of the injustices heaped on their team with often cruel and poisonous undertones. He cited the Pickford, Van Dijk incident as an example resulting in the need for Pickford to employ a security company to guard against the prospect of an attack on his home.

It may be that, as a consequence of all this, more folk will go to games in the lower divisions/non-league where you can still stand and watch amongst people who want to see sport played with enthusiasm and endeavour and care – not for the glamour and riches of the so-called elite.

I live in North America and have a friend I was trying to encourage to come and watch some matches with me; he said he's not interested as there is too much of “players going down faking injuries then jumping back up after they get the foul awarded”. What's even more sad, though, is when I find the Trump circus rated in contention for entertainment with the Blues! :)

I also think when we are allowed back into the grounds, we should make our voices heard and call the cheating gets out.

For reasons I'm still struggling to fathom, I decided to watch the 2nd half of the England v Ireland friendly the other night. I lasted just over 15 minutes, before turning it off. Can someone enlighten me as to when the rule was introduced banning crossing the ball?

Time after time, I watched the ball being played down the wings (sometimes with as little as 400 passes!) but, just when you were expecting the ball to be sent over to Calvert-Lewin to rise and plonk it in the net, the player in possession would check back and the whole process would start again, ending in the same result.

Then, on Saturday night, while channel hopping, I happened across the Newcastle v Man Utd game from 1996. What a brilliant game. Fast, close brilliant football from Newcastle; effort, hard-tackling, nobody falling down if someone breathed on them, 3 passes to get from one area to another, fantastic goals (Albert's chip over Schmeichel was perfection). All-in-all it reminded me of what football used to be all about: Passion, excitement and ENTERTAINMENT.