Reports: Everton to hold talks with Nuno

Wednesday, 2 June, 2021 1063comments  |  Jump to last

Everton are reportedly set to open talks with former Wolves boss Nuno Espirito Santo after installing him alongside David Moyes as a preferred candidate to replace Carlo Ancelotti.

The Portuguese left Wolves last month after four years in charge and has been in discussions with Crystal Palace this past week about succeeding Roy Hodgson at Selhurst Park.

Sky Sports claim that Nuno will be the first candidate to be interviewed by the Everton hierarchy whose summer plans were thrown into disarray yesterday when Ancelotti upped and left for Real Madrid.

Moyes, who is still expected to accept a contract offer from West Ham this month, came close to being re-appointed as the Toffees's boss 18 months ago but was pipped to the post by Ancelotti.

London newspaper Metro were also reporting that Espirito Santo was Everton owner Farhad Moshiri's first choice while The Telegraph suggest that former Leipzig boss and one-time candidate to replace Moyes in 2013, Ralf Rangnick, is in the frame.

A goalkeeper during his playing days, Nuno began as a coaching assistant at Panathinaikos before moving to Rio Ave and then Valencia in Spain for a year and then Porto back in his native Portugal.

Switching to Wolves in 2017, he helped build the team in tandem with agent Jorge Mendes that would take the Midlanders into the Premier League and eventually into the Europa League on the strength of a seventh-place finish in their second season back in the top flight.

Wolves struggled in 2020-21, however, particularly following the sale of Diogo Jota and the lengthy injury lay-off for Raul Jiminez who fractured his skull and saw his season ended prematurely.  


Reader Comments (1063)

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Hugh Jenkins
1 Posted 02/06/2021 at 16:27:42
Hopefully we will move quickly to fill the void.
Timothy Sebastian
2 Posted 02/06/2021 at 16:35:36
Let it be Moyes...
Danny O’Neill
3 Posted 02/06/2021 at 16:38:16
I'd rather neither, but Moyes. No. And I'm related.
Joe O'Brien
4 Posted 02/06/2021 at 16:38:48
Really can't remember what wolves were like the season before last.
If spurs are talking to Conte.. we should definitely chance our arm.
A big NO from me to Moyes and Howe. Howe isn't good enough and Moyes should never be let near the club again.
David Israel
5 Posted 02/06/2021 at 16:39:16
Not impressed, either way. Nuno ES has a basically defensive style of play and "hit them on the break". We'd probably have the same sort of problem that we had this past season, when playing at home. But then again, Moyes has a similar mindset, and Fortress Goodison worked well under him.

Which brings me to Moyes, himself. Even without mentioning other objections, I never favoured returns of prodigal sons.

Derek Moore
6 Posted 02/06/2021 at 16:40:34
Silva Mk II

Next candidate please.

Paul Smith
7 Posted 02/06/2021 at 16:41:40
Can’t see what this geezer has done to get the gig. Wolves were shite this year.
David Israel
8 Posted 02/06/2021 at 16:45:09
Joe, #4, in one of his seasons at Wolves, NES did take them to Europe, which is more than can be said about the one formerly known as Il Magnifico.
Kevin Molloy
9 Posted 02/06/2021 at 16:49:26
Before we stuff his gob with gold I'd want an in depth explanation of what the hell happened this year, cos Wolves were worse than us, if you can believe that. We actually beat them at home, that's how bad Wolves were.
Gavin Johnson
10 Posted 02/06/2021 at 16:53:17
After Howards Kendall's two returns I don't think bringing managers back works, and Moyes isn't half the manager Kendall was. He's done well at West Ham but I don't think he'll ever win a trophy no matter who he's managing.

I think Nuno is a better appointment than Moyes, Howe and Lampard, but Id like us to ask Poch now Conte looks like he's off to Spurs. He can only say no. After that I'd like Dunc to be given his chance but I don't think he'll be asked...So Nuno it is.

Robert Tressell
11 Posted 02/06/2021 at 16:54:05
I'm not sure Nuno does have a defensive style of play. I've seen his sides defend and counter against better sides and (b) control the ball and carve out chances against weaker sides.

We've notably failed with (b) this season.

He also got Wolves promoted with handful of largely unheralded foreigners, the bizarre signing of Ruben Neves and getting a lot out of players like Coady and Doherty.

Obviously quality has since been added - led by Mino Raiola not Santo - but he's managed and coached the squad well until falling away this season basically because Traore doesn't link well with Semedo (both try to occupy the same space) and Fabio Silva is miles away from being ready to replace the injured Jiminez. Moutinho is now fading too.

He also plays with wing backs and three centre backs which might not be a bad fit for us given existing personnel.

Given we will not get an appointment to set the heart racing, this would not be bad option at all.

David Cooper
12 Posted 02/06/2021 at 16:55:30
The dip in Wolves form may have had something to do with Jiota leaving and Jimenez being injured.
Joe O'Brien
13 Posted 02/06/2021 at 16:59:10
Gavin' #10 yep we should for sure go for Poch as well.. and Conte.. just because he's talking to spurs that doesn't mean its a done deal.
Both those would be alot better and more exciting than Nuno. As you said.. you won't know unless you ask..
Michael Lynch
14 Posted 02/06/2021 at 16:59:30
It has to be said that West Ham have been easy on the eye this season - far more so than us. I don't want Moyes back, but most managers will look at the players they have before deciding how to approach the games.

Carlo looked at our squad - even with additions like James - and decided we were so lacking in quality that we could only play a low block and hope to pinch one. In other words, an even more defensive version of the way Moyes had us playing. It may be that we were only shite in comparison to the kind of world-class players he was used to, but I guess we'll find out when the next fella is appointed.

Anyway, whoever is made manager, he's stuck with this lot plus maybe three or four incoming. Good luck to him.

Hector Blaukugel
15 Posted 02/06/2021 at 17:02:26
Nuno is probably the best option available right now, plus the added bonus of no compo to be paid ala Koeman. It won't be expansive or slick football with him but we'll be proper organised & solid. I also can't see him being as passive as Carlo with the 'tools down' members of our squad, I reckon he has a fiery element to him & will flip, a lot of them need a good rollicking after the abject end to our season. There's no point wearing rose tinted gigs regarding Moyes, those days are gone & we are a different beast now, not to mention he has only had one good season & a half with WHU since he left us, which he is now dining out on, BK is probably creaming his kecks over it & wanting him here. Don't go backwards, please.
Frank Wade
16 Posted 02/06/2021 at 17:02:29
Robert #11, I think Mendes is Nuno's agent and as such, was the nominal Director of Football at Wolves
Andrew Clare
17 Posted 02/06/2021 at 17:02:43
Skysports website states that, 'Moyes had eleven successful years at Everton'.
How depressing is that? We didn't win a thing!
If we appoint Moyes or Espirito Santo we are accepting that we are a mid-table club instead of trying to get back to where we should be. We will just end up floundering around mid table for another few decades.
Please appoint a winner or a least a manager who has been on the verge of success and is still relatively young.
I just hope all this Sky talk isn't real.
Gavin Johnson
18 Posted 02/06/2021 at 17:04:44
David, it did effect their season. I said in a thread yesterday one of my mates support Wolves and I messaged him about Nuno. He said that the vast majority of Wolves supporters are gutted he's gone. He said he can be defensive minded but that has had a lot to do with the players he had fit last season, but at the same time he isn't going to have us playing a Graham Potter or Eddie Howe type of football. It'll be likely to be a continuation of counter attacking football, but it would if we went for Moyes.
Kevin Prytherch
19 Posted 02/06/2021 at 17:05:55
Nino isn’t one to make me jump off my seat, nor is he a bad appointment.

He has led Wolves to 2 consecutive 7th place finishes, although the latter was with a club record 59 points!!

He has lost key players this season due to sales and injury.

He should be able to converse with our South American contingent, which could be a bonus compared to other managers.

Hopefully the lack of a big name appointment will allow us to fly under the radar in the new season as the last thing this lot need is any form of expectation.

Tony Abrahams
20 Posted 02/06/2021 at 17:08:23
I’m not sure, but in the season before last, Wolves played more games than any team and I remember them beating City, on a Friday night, and getting robbed of at least a draw by VAR, last than 48 hrs later at Anfield, when they were the stronger team imo, so I’d say there would be no worries whatsoever about the fitness levels.

Wolves probably suffered as a result of this last season, but take your time Mr Moshiri because this next appointment is so important

Danny O’Neill
21 Posted 02/06/2021 at 17:08:34
My fear with this one is we get a manager who wants to play a style and formation regardless of the players available.

Robert Tressell mentions above; he plays a back 3. I've rarely seen him change his style, which has caught them out this season. Silva anyone?

Play the system that suits the players you have or at least adapt to who you're playing against. Don't just keep doing the same thing on principle if it's not working.

Robert Tressell
22 Posted 02/06/2021 at 17:08:36
Frank #16. I mean Jorge Mendes, you're right, not Raiola.

Andrew#17, we are a mid-table club. We have finished in the top 4 twice since last winning the league. Without vast wealth we need to accept that and build properly because pretending to be a big rich club without actually having big bucks or good players has been taking us backwards for many years now.

Alan J Thompson
23 Posted 02/06/2021 at 17:12:08
Doesn't fill me with enthusiasm or excitement, middle of the road manager for a middle table club. Looks like we're done with "superstar" management.
I know that next season's plans need to be put in place but this seems a bit rushed and I hope this is just sounding him out rather than a solid offer.
Dave Lynch
24 Posted 02/06/2021 at 17:12:17
I don't get Pochettino.
He had tons of world class players at Spurs and did nothing with them.

Another cheque book manager who flatters to deceive.

Dale Self
25 Posted 02/06/2021 at 17:12:39
Now, we're talking! I like it, quick and logical first move whether we get him or not. Nuno's position in the coaches market is respectable and we don't get knocked off any mid-range plans. With some success we can expect him to be tapped up and we should prepare for the cost of that future success. Build up Everton! UTFT!!!!!

And another thing, Wolves seem to be of the same cloth as Everton as far as football clubs go. Please correct me if this is off but that has been my impression following them and chatting up a friend who is a supporter. That would be a comforting thing right now to have a good fit for the club in terms of someone who knows what to expect and can provide some semblance of this club's past form.

Steve Brown
26 Posted 02/06/2021 at 17:13:48
He's won nothing as a manager, so the perfect profile for Everton.
Tony Everan
27 Posted 02/06/2021 at 17:16:03
Whoever comes he has to have balls of steel to shake this club up from top to bottom. This is no ordinary managers’s job.

He needs to come in with a flame-thrower mounted on a tank and raze the current setup to the ground and build from the bottom up.

If a yes man comes in to slot into the mediocrity then we’re still on the road to nowhere He’ll just be another hamster on the wheel collecting his millions before the inevitable disappointment and sacking.

I don’t know if Nuno has balls of steel or ping pong balls. The trouble is half the interviewers may want someone who keeps everyone onside and on easy street, that just can’t happen.

Of the candidates mentioned , that are available and achievable, he is definitely one of the better ones.

Minik Hansen
28 Posted 02/06/2021 at 17:16:26
Always thought his name Nuno Espirito Santo suited for former St. Domingo’s FC.
Tom Bowers
29 Posted 02/06/2021 at 17:16:49
This guy did well at Wolves and this season he lost his best forward without being able to replace him and after that Wolves had problems but Everton were just as problematic under the wonderful/ woeful Ancellotti.
Frankly, I would try anybody after the last few years of frustrations. We must get lucky soon, right !!!

Kieran Kinsella
30 Posted 02/06/2021 at 17:17:52
Nuno ticks boxes they (Mosh and co as opposed to us fans) seem to be looking for. At Wolves he didn’t control transfers he coached what he was given. He can set up a decent attack or Leicesterish counter attack. He doesn’t complain. He is not likely to be hugely expensive. He has done pretty well prior. He’s available so no comp involved. He speaks Portuguese
Danny O’Neill
31 Posted 02/06/2021 at 17:19:02
Took them to the Champions League and a Champions League Final in fairness.

Some are lording Moyes for getting West Ham to Europe.Just as he did for Everton but never achieved anything like that.

Harry Kane and Delle Ali didn't cost them that much and came to prominence on his watch. He also didn't do a bad job at Southampton, so for those who like a manager who can take an average team and make them difficult to beat and play high pressing aggressive football, combining up and coming players, astute buys and getting the most out of what you have, not a bad option in my opinion.

Kieran Kinsella
32 Posted 02/06/2021 at 17:19:39
Moyes is out due to the cost of adding a glass ceiling at Brambley dock
Ian Burns
33 Posted 02/06/2021 at 17:25:03
Moshiri = Nuno;
Kenwright = Moyes
Brands = ?

Like all other posters, I agree Nuno doesn't set the pulse racing and he doesn't seem to be the type who will shake up the lazy twots we have at FF. However, he might be a good fit with Brands.

Moyes will shake them up at FF but I can't see him working with Brands - and in any case from a personal point of view I don't want him anywhere near GP.

Forget Poch or Conte, it won't happen even if we made a cheeky bid.

Grant Rorrison
34 Posted 02/06/2021 at 17:25:30
We've just had a world class name and the football was shit and we finished 10th. Why does anyone think if we get Conte or whoever that we'll magically become title contenders just because he won the league with Inter this season?
Danny O’Neill
36 Posted 02/06/2021 at 17:29:23
Naturally the discussion is about the manager Grant. But you're right, regardless of manager, the manager needs time and most importantly, better players. Managers win matches when they have the best players to select. Not turn turd into gold.
Dave Lynch
37 Posted 02/06/2021 at 17:29:31
He bottled that final Danny, the other lot where there for the taking.
Kane was already on Spurs books but was out on loan.
Ali was a decent buy I'll give you that.
I'd actually forgotten he was at Southampton, he did a decent job but I'm still not convinced tbh.
Pete Williams
38 Posted 02/06/2021 at 17:31:37
No big name like Conte is going to come to us unless it's for the money and they'll clear off as soon as they get a bigger club calling like two faced Carlo and his pack of hangers on. Moshiri has been embarrassed by Carlo. He won't want to risk that again.

To me Nuno demands commitment from his players and before injuries and transfers his team performed a lot better than us for two seasons. I think he'd be good enough to get us into Europe and he won't stand slackers. That sounds good to me compared to the stupidity we've had since Moyes left for supposedly better things.

Howe got Bournemouth relegated, Potter at Brighton just avoided relegation, Gerrard won't come and why would Moyes leave a team he's got into Europe for one that isn't. Nuno is therefore the best choice right now and we really need a steer on recruitment as soon as possible!

Danny O’Neill
39 Posted 02/06/2021 at 17:32:32
Thanks Dave, your bottling comment has just given me semi final flash backs against the same opponents!!

I hope you rest in the knowledge I won't sleep tonight!!!

Barry Rathbone
40 Posted 02/06/2021 at 17:32:44
Like the idea of Nuno he comes over as no soft touch and bereft of bull shit plus he actually accomplished what we need in far worse circumstances. The transformation of Wolves was miraculous and we need a miracle.

I don't get why Moyes would consider returning

This season has given him a lot of credit with hammers fans if he turned up here he would be on a hiding to nothing from the get go. The first run of bad form would see him hounded.

If we went back I'd have Bobby but you should never go back

Barry Robson
41 Posted 02/06/2021 at 17:33:42
I was talking to a Wolves fan who spoke very highly of him and said all their did not want him to leave.
He also said last season's poor performance was due to key players being out injured at the same time
Stephen Brown
42 Posted 02/06/2021 at 17:36:37
I’m in favour of this appointment.

Premier league experience and a track record of getting a good shift out of the players he has.

I think Wolves have played some really good football over the last few years.

Whoever is appointed needs complete support and Patience!

This is a nightmare again but Simon Jordan called it right on talksport earlier. What has Carlo actually done in 18 months ?

Allen Rodgers
43 Posted 02/06/2021 at 17:37:12
Nuno, Espirito and Santo. The Holy Trinity ? Not for me, I think he comes over as too much of a nice guy. Would prefer Ralf Rangnick but we'll see.
Dave Lynch
44 Posted 02/06/2021 at 17:38:50
Sorry Danny, accept my apologies.

Single malt works for me, or Bushmills.

Daniel A Johnson
45 Posted 02/06/2021 at 17:43:14
I was gutted that Marco Silva didn't work out.

Hew as the right type of fit, young, hungry and with some good ideas.

Brands effectively hanged him out to dry with the Iwobi transfer window, throw in injuries to Gomes and some astounding bad luck it just spiralled away from him.

Some may say he had his chance but it just feels like a missed opportunity with him.

As for Nuno not once have I ever watched Wolves and thought wish we had Nuno as manager. Wolves aren't a club I follow closely by any stretch so I have a limited opinion of him. But if I had to choose between Nuno and Moyes I'd go Moyes I'm sad to say. The only name that genuinely has me crapping my Kecks is Eddie Howe please god no.

Pete Williams
46 Posted 02/06/2021 at 17:47:52
Stephen #42 Ancelloti made DCL a better striker, sorted Pickford out, got performances out of some players e.g. Sigurdsson and he beat Liverpool. However, for a supposed top manger his team selections, substitutions and tactics just baffled me. Moshiri has learnt that a big name doesn't guarantee results or loyalty. If it isn't Nuno I don't like the other options
Danny O’Neill
47 Posted 02/06/2021 at 17:51:04
No apologies required Dave. I'll raise a glass of Vino to your Bushmills. Here's to the next manager and next season.
Steve Mink
48 Posted 02/06/2021 at 17:55:19
My main issue with NES is his symbiotic relationship with Jorge Mendez.

The standout candidate is Benitez, though I can understand why it's not going to happen.

Frank Sheppard
49 Posted 02/06/2021 at 17:58:36
Probably the best of realistic targets, and realistic targets that are available.
Pity that Brendan Rogers isn’t available.
I am a big Moyes fan, but don't think his return would be right.
Andrew Ellams
50 Posted 02/06/2021 at 17:59:14
Doesn't Nuno share an agent with James Rodrigues?
Anthony Murphy
51 Posted 02/06/2021 at 18:00:57
Re Mendez, do we get his influence/input too if we go with NES?

Linked to this, what scouting of players did Wolves and NES do or did they merely rely on their Portuguese connections for their best players?

Soren Moyer
52 Posted 02/06/2021 at 18:04:44
I'd be OK with appointing Nuno but we need to try to get Pochetino first (if he is available of course) as it looks like Spurs are after Conte now.
Jon Miners
53 Posted 02/06/2021 at 18:05:32
We need a manager that will grow and develop alongside the team, someone who can build the team understanding the culture of the club. Only one option for me Big Dunc. Put Bainsey alongside him. Why not?
Kevin Prytherch
54 Posted 02/06/2021 at 18:06:45
Steve 26 - he won the championship!!!!

He also got Rio Ave into Europe, Valencia to the champions league and Wolves into Europe.

Benjamin Dyke
55 Posted 02/06/2021 at 18:09:09
Can we swap out some dross for the best wolves players at the same time and become Portugals B team?
Robert Tressell
56 Posted 02/06/2021 at 18:09:54
The key thing here is managing expectations. Nuno would inherit a side that a variety of (not terrible) managers has managed to get to 8th at best and 12th and 10th in recent seasons. A terrific (by our standards) transfer window and good management will see us back in the 6th to 8th zone but it's very competitive. The three year plan should be to assemble a side designed to peak in the 2023/24 season - and start getting truly competitive with the top 4 and cups from there. We don't have enough money to do otherwise.
Brian Harrison
57 Posted 02/06/2021 at 18:16:11
No no no no no no Nuno no no no no no Nuno no no no no no no Nuno
Mark Ryan
58 Posted 02/06/2021 at 18:17:21
Spurs some distance away in wage demands for Conte apparently. No brainer. Get Conte in at all costs. Keep the grey one away at all costs. He's had his chance.
We were not successful under Moyes. He did okay at times. That is it. Sometimes he did okay. That is not what we need. You don't go from Champion League winner to a feckin Portugese no mark or Moyes.
Conte is available. Get him at all costs. He is a winner. It's not difficult.
Frank Wade
59 Posted 02/06/2021 at 18:17:24
I'd steer clear of any Mendes clients like Nuno. Too much influence in transfers such as Matt Doherty, a great player with Wolves, sold cheaply to Mourinho at Tottenham. Link

Far too much conflict of interest in transfer dealings. Who replaced Doherty at Wolves, yep, another Mendes client, Nelson Semedo.

Danny O’Neill
60 Posted 02/06/2021 at 18:17:30
I have to comment. Where has this "young and hungry" phrase come from that keeps getting repeated?

So a player can't be 32 and hungry? I was and I could still compete.

Fernandinho has just pulled the strings for City at the age of 36. Aguero looked "hungry" to me a the age of 32. I'm sure he still will for Barcelona who have just signed him. Not good enough for Everton though.

Sorry, but the "young and hungry" phrases bores and tires me. Its about talent, ability and fitness, regardless of age.

To use that phrase, most would have retired Pirlo by his 30th birthday, if not before.

Let's play a load of 18 year olds and see where it gets us. Honestly.

You balance age, youth, experience and up coming talent to form a successful team. Thats what the successful teams do. And always have done.

Jim Potter
61 Posted 02/06/2021 at 18:18:24
The law of averages means we have to get it right some time surely?

So disappointed in Carlo. Thought he was here for the long run and could turn this super tanker of mediocrity around. Going to work for that fascist pressure cooker club and that idiot Perez just does my head in. Up Barca!

Nuno would be acceptable to me but not particularly exciting.

Benitez is unpalatable but I would welcome him, as he's a proven manager and knows the league - and lives here already through choice (so no family worries). My first choice despite his past.

Stevie G? We shouldn't, he wouldn't.

Ralph Raggyneck - fine by me.

Moyes can do one.

Howe, no thanks.

Martinez back? Phenomenally silly.

Conte and Poch won't come.

Big Dunc - fine. The lazy sods would get a right mouthful.

Just really sad we find ourselves having to go through this again.

COYB. Get it right PLEASE.


Ray Robinson
62 Posted 02/06/2021 at 18:18:49
Brian, that's a YES then? There's no limit to what this guy can achieve?
Dave Lynch
63 Posted 02/06/2021 at 18:18:56
It will just be refreshing to see us actually attack.
In his first 2 seasons they played some lovely fast attacking football.
Forget last season, it was a bad one for him and wolves IMO have made a big mistake sacking him.
Franny Morwood
64 Posted 02/06/2021 at 18:21:07
@Anthony #51: Mendes will continue feeding Wolves with players. (They're replacing Nuno Espirito Santo with another Portuguese who doesn't actually meet the new criteria).
I think Nuno Espirito Santo was Mendes's first ever client, so they'll still have a relationship, but we'll probably get Wolves rejects...

Anyone who thinks we were dire last season should have watched Wolves to cheer themselves up; they only scored 36 goals in the Premier League last season, 11 fewer than us...

Wolves bought the Championship – other sides complained of dodgy dealings.

The bloke seemed clueless without Jimenez to bail him out...

Daniel A Johnson
65 Posted 02/06/2021 at 18:22:48
Danny [60]

Well look at Koeman phoned it in the whole time.

Compared to Silva who really put the hours at EFC in to prove himself.

Both failed admittedly but give me any manager willing to put the graft in.

Tony Everan
66 Posted 02/06/2021 at 18:23:09
Dave, Nuno was at the end of his contract, he decided not to renew it. Wolves wanted him to stay. I think Nuno had decided he wants a new challenge at a bigger club .
Alastair Kelly
67 Posted 02/06/2021 at 18:24:25
I’d like to see us go with Moyes and hopefully big Dunc take it on after him.
Moyes has a great transfer market record, he’ll get rid of the work-shy, make us hard to beat and develop from there like he has with West Ham. He understands what the fans want and I can’t see that anyone else is better placed to deliver this.
He worked miracles for us in his first stint.
If it’s not to be I’d like to see Dyche given a go.
Alan Johnson
68 Posted 02/06/2021 at 18:26:34
I think this is the Manager we need. Solid and he knows the Prem, his teams always play with spirit
Something we've been lacking. My guess is he will be here for a good few years.
Tony Twist
69 Posted 02/06/2021 at 18:28:07
I am perfectly happy with either of them if they prove to be competent. Well I think Moyes has proven that. I just want a manager with passion, who builds a team of nobodies that become somebodies. A team with spirit and identity that banish the fear that is surrounding this club. A manager who gets a big reaction after a loss and can rectify faults quickly and has integrity. We need to get our pride back.
Colin Glassar
70 Posted 02/06/2021 at 18:28:32
I feel so underwhelmed with the names being linked to us. Nuno is the Portuguese equivalent to ginge the minge. He’s a natural born moaner who’s purpose built for mid-table mediocrity.

Nuno is going to need more than the Holy Spirit to convince me. He’s going to need la Familia Sagrada as well.

Jon Miners
71 Posted 02/06/2021 at 18:29:46
I'd rather have Benitez than Moyes, I think.
Tom Harvey
72 Posted 02/06/2021 at 18:31:53
He looked very tired and apathetic towards the end at Wolves, but I can see why the club are interested in him.

It seemed to me he ran out of ideas towards the end at Wolves, although he had some good players taked away from him, this didn't do him any favours.

To the moderators, could we have a fifth choice in your poll: "sitting on the fence?".

Hugh Jenkins
73 Posted 02/06/2021 at 18:33:38
Why, after all the times, after he left us, that we have bemoaned the fact that in 11 years, Moyes never won away at some grounds and only very, very rarely at others, kept quoting the "knife to a gun fight" comparison with the top 6 sides and recognised the "glass ceiling' that existed between the top 4 and the us, are we even considering his return?
I loved him when he first came to us, and still acknowledge the stability he gave us, but cannot really see what benefit would derive from having him back now?
He moved on and we need to, too!
John Graham
74 Posted 02/06/2021 at 18:34:24
If we’re going for a Portuguese manager then how about Ruben Amorim.
Young, dynamic and just won the league with Sporting Lisbon
Got to think big if we’re going to make a challenge for Europe. All of the people mentioned are average at best.
We need to take a chance or will be an average club at best.
COYB
Tom Harvey
75 Posted 02/06/2021 at 18:35:11
Moyes coming back would be the dullest thing the club will ever do.

Go forward don't look back!

Brian Wilkinson
76 Posted 02/06/2021 at 18:35:25
A reluctant yes, been down this road over and over, what will happen also is any new Manager coming in, tends to give players already here a look at, hence why the same players have been here, year after year, surviving all new Managers coming in.

Now my controversial choice for some is Duncan Ferguson, job came too early last time around, however he did get the players giving that bit extra, and had the fans onboard as well.

Something has to change, take a punt on someone who understands what this club stands for, after his time alongside Carlo, I think now is the time to try a different approach, and give Duncan Ferguson a chance.

Annika Herbert
77 Posted 02/06/2021 at 18:38:37
Moyes worked miracles for us!!? I must have missed those days
Bill Rodgers
78 Posted 02/06/2021 at 18:40:15
Please let it be Dunc. We need get right down to rock bottom so that we can rebuild - and we are clearly not yet there.
Tom Harvey
79 Posted 02/06/2021 at 18:40:21
Brian Wilkinson @ 76

Brian,

Big Dunc would not be a contraversial appointment, just like last time he's had chance to see what's gone wrong and like last time he might just light fire underneath them.

I'd like to it play out this time, instead of a few games.

Colin Glassar
80 Posted 02/06/2021 at 18:40:49
I’ve got nothing personal against Nuno. He comes across as a personable, nice guy - maybe too nice for my liking.

What I dislike about the Wolverhampton setup is the influence of Jorge Mendes and his people trafficking. I’ve always thought the authorities should investigate this constant stream of Portuguese youngsters into the Black Country. Something very dodgy about that lot.

Ian Edwards
81 Posted 02/06/2021 at 18:41:37
In his three visits to Anfield with Nuno as Manager, Wolves didn't manage to score a goal.
Nick Page
82 Posted 02/06/2021 at 18:44:14
If Ferguson gets the job, and fails where will Bill demand he gets a job next?
Bill Gienapp
83 Posted 02/06/2021 at 18:44:17
My general feeling on Santo is that we could do better and we could do worse. He would have been more exciting two years ago, when his stock was at its zenith, as opposed to coming off this past season, which was the first time he was really tested in terms of injuries and transfer exits and was found wanting.

Still, he did run away with the Championship, then led Wolves to back-to-back 7th place finishes (and would have had back-to-back Europa League appearances if not for Arsenal squeezing them out with their FA Cup win).

I do think we need to determine the right person for the job, rather than just chasing the biggest name for the sake of clout. There's no doubt Conte is a winner, but he's also a short-fused nutcase who's the complete opposite of the sort of continuity the club desperately needs at this stage.

How we know who the right person for the job is, I have no idea.

Roger Helm
84 Posted 02/06/2021 at 18:46:04
He did a good job with Wolves until they were undone by overwork and injuries. I would not object as I cannot see any top manager coming, and if they did, they would probably bugger off when a big club comes calling.

But it's not just the manager, we need a load of new players to replace the ones not up to standard and a whole new coaching/backroom/conditioning staff to replace the present old boys' club. I can't see much real change in the club until the chairman goes. He probably had to be stopped appointing Wayne Rooney as manager.

Colin Glassar
85 Posted 02/06/2021 at 18:47:03
What’s the rush? This is Everton and we usually do our business on the last day of the transfer window. Why break a successful habit!

Ian E, who’s your choice for manager? Pray tell

Ian Edwards
86 Posted 02/06/2021 at 18:49:22
Colin 85. Out of the Managers in the running I'd give Rangnick a go. Plays a fast high pressing game like Klopp does.
Christy Ring
87 Posted 02/06/2021 at 18:49:45
I believe we shouldn't put all our eggs in one basket, interview 4/5 candidates, and Bill not part of the intervew panel because if he had his way Moyes would be unveiled tomorrow, no thanks. Nuno got Wolves promoted and firmly established in the Premiership, and lost Jota and Jimenez this season, and I think he had enough at Wolves and left by mutual consent. Poch should be approached also, he's not happy at PSG and not going back to Spurs. I'd love to see us go for Rodgers, with Tielemans supposed to be leaving, maybe all is not well at Leicester?
Kieran Kinsella
88 Posted 02/06/2021 at 18:49:55
Colin,

Ian is too busy to answer as he is usually publishing stats that are usually wrong. He also seems to have no short-term memory of Everton results over the last several years that would obviously prove his dodgy stats wrong. Really bizarre.

John Keating
89 Posted 02/06/2021 at 18:50:30
Why would Feguson or Unsworth take the job?

If they failed – sorry... when they failed – they'd get sacked and have to go elsewhere.

At present, they've both got cushy jobs for life, well as long as Bill lasts.

Robert Williams
90 Posted 02/06/2021 at 18:50:49
What about the managers of Brentford and Norwich, whoever they are? After all, they did manage promotion to the Premier League and may be just the talent we need to progress to become European contenders.

Just a thought and something other than Moyes and similar ilk.

Fran Mitchell
91 Posted 02/06/2021 at 18:51:35
He's a pretty logical choice really.

He's available and we need this resolved quickly so we can get ourselves sorted.

Not exactly an exciting name, but he's better than some of the names mentioned (Howe, for example).

Wolves are a team that are always very slow to start games, but once they start playing can be pleasing on the eye. This season they suffered due to losing their best 2 players (one to injury, another sold) and not investing in first team ready players.

I always found them a bit over rated, but they came.up.from the championship and are now pretty much established in teh Premier League, which is solid work by the manager (compared to Howe and his perrenial relegation candidates to eventual relegation fodder).

So meh. ok.


But the true feeling is that 'I really don't care anymore. We're destined for mid table either way

Kieran Kinsella
92 Posted 02/06/2021 at 18:52:07
Christy 87

The problem with your reasonable suggestion is that the Everton board only have two modes of operation: procrastination, and panic.

Mike Gwyer
93 Posted 02/06/2021 at 18:52:52

If West Ham haven't got Moyes to sign a new contract and then told all and sundry that he's their boss then something is certainly fishy. Is Moyes waiting to see what Everton put on the table?

Surely West Ham would get this done and dusted whilst all this shite is going on at Goodison.

Steven Telford
94 Posted 02/06/2021 at 18:53:36
I really don't get the People saying they "can't see what he has achieved to warrant a shot". Certainly way more than Marco who? Frosty Ronnie, Sam the Bung, and Relegation Bobby.

Stellar promotion to the Premier League, built a pretty good team at wolves (seems a good talent spotter), took them from the Championship to getting in to the Europa League (we can't seem to get from 7th to 5th), he ran a pretty good domestic campaign at the same time as his European campaign. Speaking Spanish and Portuguese is an obvious big plus. His age is also a plus.

I think he is the standout candidate by a country mile.

Robert Tressell
95 Posted 02/06/2021 at 18:55:42
Ian - so does that mean you want Ancelotti back since he got us a win there? We'd all like Pep or Simeone really - you're not alone wanting someone better. But you must have noticed it's 30 years since we were competitive and someone with a sparkling track record of Anfield victories will have a £bn squad at his disposal.
Colin Glassar
96 Posted 02/06/2021 at 18:57:03
Kieran, neither Ian, Darren, Jonathan, Kevin etc...want to name a preferred candidate as it’s much easier criticising and not sticking to your guns.

Whoever is appointed he will divide opinions.

My three choices would be:

Rangnick
Marcelo
Benitez (ouch).

Kunal Desai
97 Posted 02/06/2021 at 18:57:26
How depressing. I see us struggling over the next few seasons, we'll see the likes of Digne, Richarlison and Godfrey all move on.
Paul A Smith
98 Posted 02/06/2021 at 18:58:54
The more I think about it, if a new manager is going to be backed in the market give it to Duncan.

Nobody will be messing about under him and he is respected at the club by players.

We are only potentially 7th or 8th best club under any manager. They all need a miracle run of form at some point to better that.

Kieran Kinsella
99 Posted 02/06/2021 at 18:59:37
Interesting choice of words on Sky. "Silva featured in discussions." Doesn't necessarily mean as other press are interpreting that he was suggested for a return to the role. More likely he featured as an example of what we don't want, eg, Pereira seems like another Silva.
Brendan McLaughlin
101 Posted 02/06/2021 at 19:02:09
Colin #96,

Did Ian not name his preference #86... or is it a different Ian?

Mike Doyle
102 Posted 02/06/2021 at 19:02:38
We need some other news to distract us from this managerial stuff... Has EitC been up to anything newsworthy?

Any other ex-players appointed as Academy coaches?

Colin Glassar
103 Posted 02/06/2021 at 19:03:02
I’ve just seen some quotes by Carlo on Twitter. I’m disliking him more by the hour. What a let down he’s turned out to be. Even though what he says might be true.
Jimmy Hogan
104 Posted 02/06/2021 at 19:06:30
Yes Colin, Rangnick. A prophet, who takes unfashionable, underperforming sides and turns them into winners, while playing exciting football. His English is good. The only black mark is his age, 62.
Kieran Kinsella
105 Posted 02/06/2021 at 19:07:19
Colin

I'd bring Emery back as long as he keeps winning the Europa

Colin Glassar
106 Posted 02/06/2021 at 19:07:24
Apologies to Ian - didn't see his post. And he also likes Ragnick.
Anthony Flack
107 Posted 02/06/2021 at 19:07:49
I cannot fathom the logic behind liking the idea of Moyes - not one bit. Sure there were positives, in the early days. But others have mentioned the allergy to competing with the top 4, which amounted to surrender….. and the way he left to join United makes Carlo look near saint like….

Never never never and we should have some pride and disassociate ourselves from him…. Move forward not backwards

I’d even go for Martinez ahead of him - though that Wigan home FA cup game when Phil Neville played like my dead grannie still gives me shivers….

Tom Harvey
108 Posted 02/06/2021 at 19:08:25
Have a guess who Boys Pen Bill wants?

Sources: Kenwright champions Moyes to be new Everton manager amid West Ham latest

It looks like lazy journalism to me, but I have that nagging doubt Bill might just charm Moshiri into doing it.

Gary Willock
109 Posted 02/06/2021 at 19:08:45
A wise individual once said “stay away from negative people, as they have a problem for every solution”.

Clearly they'd been a ToffeeWeb regular not long before it.

Hopefully whoever we get, we get behind them. Goodison will at least. Outside of that, it's just hope we get the next Alex Ferguson not the next Mike Walker.

Darren Hind
110 Posted 02/06/2021 at 19:09:33
Hell hath no fury like a happer clapper scorned, eh, Col?
Brian Wilkinson
111 Posted 02/06/2021 at 19:11:49
Paul@8 spot on, we need to try a different approach, sick of a Manager coming in year on end, done well elsewhere, got found out at Everton and then leaving, it's like Groundhog Day.

Why not go along the Duncan Ferguson route, someone who understands Everton, and will not stand for anyone not putting the effort in, break the chain of bringing Managers year after year, Joe Royle, Howard Kendall, both brought success at Everton, both knowing what is expected from our football club, forget Kendall Mk 2 and Mk 3, look at what these achieved with their first stint.

I did not think Ferguson should have got the first shot for those games, he proved me wrong, I think he is the perfect choice now.

Anthony Flack
112 Posted 02/06/2021 at 19:12:19
Mike Walker... jeez, what a nightmare – if anyone has not read Southall's autobiography, it is worth it just for what he says about Walker …
Barry Hesketh
113 Posted 02/06/2021 at 19:15:22
Anthony @107

Apologies if I misread your post, but it was Moyes who was in charge of Everton for that horrible cup defeat to Wigan.

In the Wigan dugout was a certain Roberto Martinez.

Daniel A Johnson
114 Posted 02/06/2021 at 19:17:11
Don't really get the "Duncan Ferguson will get them fighting and playing" train of thought.

He's been a coach at Everton for nearly 10 years and has had every opportunity to get in amongst them. I fear he's like Unsworth, likes his cushy salary and life behind the scenes.

Colin Glassar
115 Posted 02/06/2021 at 19:18:15
At least I try and give the managers a chance, Darren. They’ve all disappointed me but I don’t start knifing them in the back before they’ve even got their feet under the desk.

So please, enlighten us. You seem to have psychic powers, so who is the chosen one?

Derek Knox
116 Posted 02/06/2021 at 19:19:13
I have no particular objections to Nuno, or Graham (Harry) Potter, but I wonder if Duncan with Tim Cahill as Assistant would be considered? I think between the two they could certainly kick arses, and get them motivated, but whether they could attract good players too is a doubt.
Alan Corken
117 Posted 02/06/2021 at 19:21:55
The big name appointments have been a disaster, ie, Koeman and Ancellotti. The emerging talents from Europe have sunk, ie. Martinez and Silva. Then there was the fat one!

Enough of this fantasizing – the team is shite... total and utter crap, and we need someone with proven ability to get a tune from a turd.

Not popular I know, but it has to be Moyes.

Ian Edwards
118 Posted 02/06/2021 at 19:25:05
Out of all the named candidates, the one I want the least is Nuno. In each of his three Premier League seasons with Wolves, they have been defensive and have struggled to score goals: 47, 51 and 36 goals scored.

Moshiri has continually appointed the wrong man. He's going to do it again.

Matt Byrne
119 Posted 02/06/2021 at 19:26:55
I know a lot will disagree but I would be tempted to give big Duncan the chance. We have tried every possible manager... two young foreign coaches in Roberto and Silva, famous legendary player in Koeman, old school English type in big Sam, and world class pedigree with Carlo.

We haven't appointed an ex-Evertonian with passion for the club since Joe Royle in 1994. Look what he achieved that season... Duncan has the desire care and passion we have lacked for so long. I know he only had four or so games in charge but, in a flash, the likes of Schneiderlin and Walcott were running like crazy.

That game v Chelsea was one of the very few games in years and years where you were on the edge of your seat and your heart was racing! There was a real connection again between players and crowd.

He would surely shake the under-achievers up and pin a few against the dressing room wall who don't fancy it. He wouldn't be afraid if Liverpool either. Big Nev agrees too. I'd happily see Cahill there too.

If Nuno gets the job, good luck to him but we have truly lost our identity these last 8 years with coaches who either didn't care or who didn't get us. At least Dunc would give us some pride back and someone to all rally behind. He won't get it but he shouldn't be dismissed out of hand.

Daniel A Johnson
120 Posted 02/06/2021 at 19:27:18
Colin [115]

Now I'm the last person singing the praises of our Dazza Hind but to be fair to the guy from the get go amongst all the hysteria of Mr Fantastico's arrival, he always said he thought his appointment was wrong and a bad fit for EFC. That's hardly knifing the new manager in the back its just his opinion.

An opinion that turned out to be 100% correct.

Kevin Molloy
121 Posted 02/06/2021 at 19:28:01
I would have Moyes back for his ability in the transfer market alone. Imagine three years from now not being knee deep in ageing turkeys, he'd have them yes losing to the top 5 away, but winning most of the home games, and with a good team. I'd definitely take that.
Brian Williams
122 Posted 02/06/2021 at 19:33:25
Over a thousand posts on another thread and a hundred and odd and rising on here and yet all "some" can do is seek out posts for confrontation and a chance to have a go and cause an argument.
The manager may change but I guess some very sad individuals don't.
Martin Berry
123 Posted 02/06/2021 at 19:36:57
I can't decide about this fella; however, they did bring some talent to Wolves and how much say Nuno had, I don't know. If he brings Neto with him, then that could sway it.
Roman Sidey
124 Posted 02/06/2021 at 19:37:02
If the club gets Moyes back, then I'm done. He may have had a good season at West Ham but it cannot be forgotten how depressing the football was when he was here and just how badly he failed when given the reins of a huge rich club in Man Utd.

Perhaps if Kenwright were a distant memory, it would be different... but, with him still at the club, Moyes would know that the expectation is 7th-ish and not winning away.

Conor McCourt
125 Posted 02/06/2021 at 19:38:00
I don't get why many Twebbers have spent the last two days directing their fury to those who weren't sold on Carlo. It was this manager who presided over this wreck of a season; it was this manager who wasn't worthy of your 18 months of nothing but loyalty towards him; and it was this manager who stabbed you in the back.

I am delighted that manager is gone personally but I take no delight in fellow Blues suffering and believe anger is being misattributed.

Tony Byrne
126 Posted 02/06/2021 at 19:38:16
If we decide to go British, it has to be Rodgers. He can set a team up, he improves players which is key, has a good eye in the transfer market, gives young players the opportunity.

Break the bank and make an offer he can't refuse. If the club are actually arsed about challenging the Top 6 in the next 3-4 years, he is the long-term appointment we should be going for.

If we are going for another foreign coach, again we have to pay top dollar if the club have ambition. That's Conte, a modern-day winner in both the Premier League and in Italy.

At this point in time, if we don't get one of the above mentioned, we just plod along like we have been doing under the pile of shite that we've appointed over the past few years.

Nuno, no no! Same shit, different day.

Martin Mason
127 Posted 02/06/2021 at 19:38:22
Daniel @120,

Darren wasn't proved right at all as Carlo has not had the chance to deliver or not deliver. His leaving doesn't mean that he would have failed. Even if he had failed, Darren had a 50% chance of being right with his nonsense. More Mickey Mouse than Einstein.

Far more serious than Darren's irrelevancy are that we are in a far bigger mess now than if Carlo had stayed and Liverpool look like they are buying Tielemans.

Gavin Johnson
128 Posted 02/06/2021 at 19:38:28
I saw a report linking Sarri today. He could be an interesting appointment and hasn't been mentioned by anyone.
Pat Kelly
129 Posted 02/06/2021 at 19:39:33
Let's not get another magician who disappears when it suits him.
Hugh Jenkins
130 Posted 02/06/2021 at 19:43:08
Ian (118) You may well be proved right. The problem we have is, perhaps, the "right man" doesn't want to come to Everton?

None of us know who has, or has not been approached. None of us know who has or has not said "Yes", "Perhaps", or, "No - thank you very much".

So, it may not be a case of Mr Moshri not appointing the "right man" as the "right man" not being available to be appointed.

Luke Welch
131 Posted 02/06/2021 at 19:43:11
Going by what Carlo said in today's press conference about still having a lot of love for the older players in his new squad, I think he might come back for James.
Thomas Richards
132 Posted 02/06/2021 at 19:44:28
Hell hath no fury than a little fat chap scorned. 100% phoney, our resident slagging machine.

I will say it now: Our next manager will not get Champions League qualification in his first year. Sack him before he is appointed

Mike Doyle
133 Posted 02/06/2021 at 19:44:50
I wonder if our Board will be tempted to follow the RS and use the ‘Moneyball'-like statistical approach that identified Klopp as a suitable managerial candidate or introduce some kind of objectivity into the selection process?

Then again – wouldn't be very Everton that would it?

John OBrien
134 Posted 02/06/2021 at 19:46:02
Erik ten Hag please. Forward-thinking, good with youth, winning percentages everywhere he's been.
Paul Smith
135 Posted 02/06/2021 at 19:49:35
Can people stop mentioning Rodgers. Why the holy fuck would he come here? Talk about the other lot being deluded...
Hugh Jenkins
136 Posted 02/06/2021 at 19:49:51
I keep seeing Tim Cahill mentioned.

I don't know if I have missed something?

The last I recall was that he had said he had no interest in coaching nor managing.

Has that changed?

Colin Glassar
137 Posted 02/06/2021 at 19:50:17
Gavin, Sarri would literally stink the place out!

Daniel A, in all fairness to Darren he has been right about Martinez, Koeman (not 100% sure), Silva and Ancellotti. That’s why I asked him about the next manager. If he says Nuno is shite then we may as well sack him now, before he signs a contract!

Anthony Flack
138 Posted 02/06/2021 at 19:53:07
Barry @ 113 sorry you are absolutely right

The horror of the day befuddled my memory..

Thomas Richards
139 Posted 02/06/2021 at 19:53:39
Colin,

It's not fuckin rocket science. The next manager will not get us Champions League football. Guaranteed.

Anthony A Hughes
140 Posted 02/06/2021 at 19:54:56
Surely if Carlo was a dinosaur then Benitez and Rangnick must be as well?
Daniel A Johnson
141 Posted 02/06/2021 at 19:56:09
Fuck it, just bring back Moyes. There, that's my stance.

Is that okay with you, Annika?

Rob Halligan
142 Posted 02/06/2021 at 19:57:56
Is our technical area big enough for Nuno's gang huddle after every goal we score?
Martin Mason
143 Posted 02/06/2021 at 19:59:46
Okay, if we're going to be ridiculous then take Martinez back. We finished 7th in his last season.
Anthony A Hughes
144 Posted 02/06/2021 at 20:00:37
Whoever comes in has got his work cut out with the tools he has to work with... [pun intended].
Larry O'Hara
145 Posted 02/06/2021 at 20:01:24
For what it’s worth opinion of a long-term Wolves fan below. It is, however, rumoured he left Wolves due to disagreements about transfer policy. Maybe he didn’t like the dross Mendes pushed his way? Anyway, opinion below >>>

I loved Nuno the first 3 seasons he was at Wolves.

4th season he went really down hill fast.

Yes selling Jiota did not help, as his replacements were mega poor.

Yes the injury to Jimeneze was bad luck and did not help either, but his replacements were just as bad as those for Jiota.

And the wonder kid from Porto (Silver) - he should be out on loan at a championship club, not the first team centre forward - god help us!

In the end I was one of those calling for Nuno to be sacked. I'm glad to see him out, as we need fresh blood at the helm now.

Morgan Gibbs-White, not great, and not a premier league player. Championship/League One is his limit.

Trevor Powell
146 Posted 02/06/2021 at 20:01:44
When discussing Moyes, I would love to see how his record with his knife in a gunfight games has possibly changed for the good. The Moyes record in these away games was truly appalling at EFC. What is his record post Goodison against the ESL Six away from home? Unless there was a total shift in his philosophy and an impressive results record, then why should he even be considered? Come on you 'Stattos', you know who you are, enlighten us!

On another point, how come we do not get a HYS on BBC's McNulty 'Carlo Ancelotti leaves Everton: 'Italian's exit to Real Madrid major blow to Toffees' ambitions' on BBC sport today? Oh, I forgot the BBC can not see asumes only ESL clubs supporters understand football in this modern era!

Jon Miners
147 Posted 02/06/2021 at 20:04:28
What a disappointment Ancelotti turned out to be. A failure at the end of the day as Europe was there for us. He failed to get any drive and passion in the team and that's what we need.

Bring in Dunc. Can't do any worse than the last 5 managers! Baines can be his assistant. Job done.

Marc Hints
148 Posted 02/06/2021 at 20:05:36
It's got to be Ralf Rangnick for me; what he has done at RB Leipzig is nothing short of remarkable.
Tony Everan
149 Posted 02/06/2021 at 20:06:48
Nuno getting 67% approval from the TW poll after 552 votes.

It’s a good strike rate for him. There’s going to be divided opinion whoever we get but of those available I don’t think any will get as high as 67% of fans satisfied or made up with them coming to Everton.

I can see this being a done deal by the weekend.

Brendan McLaughlin
150 Posted 02/06/2021 at 20:08:56
Martin#143
If we're going to be ridiculous let's just make stuff up...we finished 11th in Roberto's final season.
Thomas Richards
151 Posted 02/06/2021 at 20:09:11
Stop speculating about who the new manager is

We are a small club, both in mind and action.
Nothing to see here, please move on.

Joe McMahon
152 Posted 02/06/2021 at 20:09:45
I can only see Poch and Conte wanting a CL regular team or at least London. Spurs have played in CL, have the stadium and London, and we can't match that.

Of the 2 names listed its Nuno for me, Wolves fans didn't want him to leave. Personally I'd prefer Lampard. He got Chelsea qualified for CL with a transfer ban and Derby to play off final. And remember Rooney was about 5 minutes away from relegating Derby.

Bjoern Haall
153 Posted 02/06/2021 at 20:11:27
As a Swede my vote is with Lars Lagerbäck. That would guarantee a place beteeen 4-6th and that we probably would be the most boring team.
Kevin Molloy
154 Posted 02/06/2021 at 20:14:04
no top manager will consider us after what Carlo's just done. They'll all be thinking 'look, he couldnt get away quick enough'
Martin Mason
155 Posted 02/06/2021 at 20:17:41
Brendan@150 Sorry, I quoted it verbatim from another article. The point is, no significant difference to this season so what is the risk? Were we stupid in sacking Martinez? I have a feeling that events since then say yes also that Moyes grossly overperformed and should be front runner?
Danny Baily
156 Posted 02/06/2021 at 20:18:43
Nuno would be a good shout. He's done really well with Wolves.

Those calling for Moyes have short memories. He's stunk the place out since he left, bar one good season at West Ham. He's as much yesterday's man as Allardyce is. And as for Lampard or Rooney, both have shown that they are not up to the task of management.

Nuno or a truly left field appointment for me.

Duncan McDine
157 Posted 02/06/2021 at 20:18:49
TR 151, if there’s nothing to see here, why are you posting so much on the thread? For once I’d say there is genuine reason to be interested, and as fans (not owners), speculating is all we can do!
Ian Edwards
158 Posted 02/06/2021 at 20:19:59
Danny 156 Nuno hasn't done that well with Wolves. Scored 51, 47, 36 goals. He got sacked.
Paul A Smith
159 Posted 02/06/2021 at 20:20:03
Thomas 151. This does make the - he stood in Holgates way to City even funnier though in all honesty.

Its turned out he was a bad fit and he must have even felt it himself but the next managers job is still massive isn't it.

Ambition is somewhat confusing at this club.

Moshiri's first question to Nuno in interview, do you play 3 centre halfs because Toffeeweb is watching.

Will Coady come with him?

Ian Pilkington
160 Posted 02/06/2021 at 20:22:40
I have Just voted in the poll for Benitez as he remains a top class manager and a more stable choice than Conte. I disliked him as much as anyone when he was across the park but that is now water under the bridge and he would be a sound choice.

Nuno could prove to be another Silva and does not have a particularly impressive cv.

More depressing than having to search again for a manager is the thought that Kenwright is still on the board and apparently lobbying again for the return of Moyes. Mercifully only 5% in the poll are stupid enough to want him back.

Danny Baily
161 Posted 02/06/2021 at 20:26:35
Ian 156, he has a near 50% win percentage at wolves, despite spending 3 seasons in the PL.

Not great but of the known (realistic) names put forward he's the pick of the bunch.

Soren Moyer
162 Posted 02/06/2021 at 20:27:03
We need to go German as 1st option. My 2nd choice is Landro Jardim and his talent scouts from his first Monaco reign. 3rd option should include the usuall suspects in this order: Pochetino, Galtier from Lille, Nuno, Potter (no relations to Harry and no magic wand lol).
So no Moyes, no Howe (know how?), no Dyche.
Kieran Kinsella
163 Posted 02/06/2021 at 20:29:15
Soren

Since you were non specific suitable experienced, soon to be available German leader Angel Merkhel. That would certainly rock the boat. I like it

Mike Allison
164 Posted 02/06/2021 at 20:30:51
Any chance of Duncan in charge and Neil Critchley as the brains of the operation?

I meant to add that I couldn’t vote in the specific poll about Nuno because there isn’t a option between disappointed and satisfied.

Ian Edwards
165 Posted 02/06/2021 at 20:31:49
I don't see why people are saying yes to Nuno but no to Howe. Howe did better with Bournemouth than Nuno did with Wolves. I'm not saying we should go for Howe... I'm just saying he's far better than Nuno.

The foreign manager snobbery has failed ever since Moshiri has been here.

Conor McCourt
166 Posted 02/06/2021 at 20:33:11
I think the fact Ragnick comes up as a serious candidate is probably the most interesting. This guy is a bit of a Bielsa from whom the likes of Klopp have learnt from.

The reason I say he is interesting is because he was a key cog in the Red Bull model and is a major proponent of youth. If Moshiri was serious about building a future this would be the perfect appointment. He is arguably even better as a technical director and he may want to take us on as a project perhaps managing short term before moving upstairs. He would give us that dynasty, that plan many of us are calling for.

Ian Edwards
167 Posted 02/06/2021 at 20:33:36
Danny 161. Stats aren't everything. Wolves consistently struggled for goals. We don't want to sign up for more shite football.
Ian Burns
168 Posted 02/06/2021 at 20:34:50
I have read just about every single post on the two threads covering the subject of Carlo leaving and who should we bring in.

There are so few imaginative posts far as incomings are concerned and most are just regurgitating the usual suspects.

Any mention of Poch; Conte etc are immediately scoffed at as out of our reach - I did it myself on an earlier post!

So the choices reflect who we are at this moment in time - even Rodgers is out of reach.

One name has popped up a couple of times Eric Ten Hag and I mentioned it to my football coach son who said he would be an exciting choice who would get on with Brands.

My son is not an blues supporter but that is a very long story.

Soren Moyer
169 Posted 02/06/2021 at 20:35:59
Kieran, 163, or Eddie Hitler from bottom. Might have some German genes in him 😀.

I had someone like Ralf Rangnick in mind though!

Brendan McLaughlin
170 Posted 02/06/2021 at 20:39:35
I'm going for Ian Burns' son
Anthony A Hughes
171 Posted 02/06/2021 at 20:40:06
How is Howe far better than Nuno? And i"m no lover of Nuno either but to say Howe who took his team down is far better is a strange one Ian
Jason Li
172 Posted 02/06/2021 at 20:40:11
If we want stability and something new, then do a Man Utd is an option. They gave Ole lots of time as they know he is Utd through and through and came from a much lower down football club. Ole got a team relegated but at Utd has been on a fast-track scheme to management and it's worked.

This means Wayne Rooney as manager. Give him time to mould a team over the next 4 years. No one knows the Premier League like him, no one at Everton today is a bigger winner than him if we are talking about a winner with a bit of grit between his teeth, and also softly spoken to suit the modern day footballer, he understands social media, what footballers get up to and lived it, taking the pressure of being captain for country... why not Wayne Rooney?

Barry Hesketh
173 Posted 02/06/2021 at 20:41:00
As of yet the third man on said list is unknown, though Moyes and Nuno are two of the three under consideration with the Scotsman the main candidate.
Cue the Harry Lime theme!
Bjorn-Ivar Pedersen
174 Posted 02/06/2021 at 20:43:08
Does it really matter who we appoint for the next 18 month's?
This squad will just be even more fucked up with yet another manager adding his shit to it.
Gavin Johnson
175 Posted 02/06/2021 at 20:43:31
Ian #165 I think people are saying Nuno is a better bet than Eddie Howe because they fear Howe is another Martinez clone who got his club relegated playing nice football. Bournemouth shipped goals for fun. That's all well and good if you can score more but what happens when the goals dry up cos the other team sit deep?! Will he just be another Martinez with no idea and no plan B.

I thought the football under Martinez in those final few months was as bad as anything I've seen watching Everton. Just ponderous side ways passing. And he had an attacking possession based philosophy

Anthony A Hughes
176 Posted 02/06/2021 at 20:44:58
Rooney? Not yet, Keane, Viera, Henry were all winners no sign of them being great coaches
Mark Ryan
177 Posted 02/06/2021 at 20:50:16
I suspect Carlo was promised millions for transfers when he arrived but Moshiri has baulked due to Covid etc and Carlo thinks " if I stay and I show that I can't get a tune out of this shower of shit, it will ruin my rep so I'm offski as soon as I get a goodish offer"
I bet when the call came his daughter said "we're out of here Dad" and I'd wager he was the most relieved man in Merseyside.
If we don't try for Conte or Poch then it means the funds will not be there this Summer for marquee signings, hence Nuno or the Grey Lady...a long shitty wait until we sign a second rate manager. Sacked by Wolves but good enough for us.
What a joke we have become.
Stu Gore
178 Posted 02/06/2021 at 20:57:44
Just someone who can tell the players to take the ball in the half turn rather than standing still with their back to goal. Last five managers haven’t managed this.
David Hallwood
179 Posted 02/06/2021 at 20:57:48
I'm coming round to giving it to big Dunc. Could he be any worse than what we've had.

Grant Rorrison
180 Posted 02/06/2021 at 20:57:51
Read on twitter that they had a fallout. Moshiri not happy with the league position when he had been promised that we would be competing at the top end of the table and Ancelotti in turn complaining about the quality of the squad and the size of the budget available this summer to improve it. CA then supposedly got in touch with his agent to get him a move out of the club. Sounds about right.
Paul A Smith
181 Posted 02/06/2021 at 20:57:51
The burglary theory seems is more over thinking. He was going to Madrid if the burglars broke in and left him a million bars of gold.

Of course it was a bad experience but the man has lived in Naples. Hes not stupid. Of course he'd have a bad memory of it but what would he have done if Madrid hadn't come in? Quit? No chance.

It sounds relative because hes gone but regardless of any incident he was going once the call came and the 'unexpected' claim speaks to that.

He was staying but got an offer he didn't think would come and left to join trophy chasers.

Duncan McDine
182 Posted 02/06/2021 at 20:58:19
Shite first half for England FC. Roy Keane giving his verdict at half time, looking very much like Harold Shipman these days. Everton need an injection of something, and people say he has that killer instinct, but I’m not sure he’s what we need right now.
Gavin Johnson
183 Posted 02/06/2021 at 20:58:49
Mark, I'm not sure that'll be true cos in fairness to Moshiri, he's given managers all the money he's been allowed to under FFP rules.
Jason Li
184 Posted 02/06/2021 at 21:01:56
Anthony @ 176

True as a manager Rooney's won nothing in his short management career - definitely nowhere near Carlo and it will be hard to find another winner like Carlo to bring in unfortunately.

I think whoever the board brings in will be like the poll says, a 7 out of 10 appointment at most. Most candidate options in the comments have so many downsides, the board can't win. If no-one on TW after over 1000 opinions can't agree on two or three options that almost everyone says we wouldn't mind as the manager, it tells this appointment will be the toughest in years.

If the appointment may not be that exciting as we'd hope for, then an alternative objective could be that we should just get the one who is most likely to stay for at least 3 years if that's the case so Brands can bring in some good young players and develop under one stable manager to give young players a chance. Otherwise a manager whose got one eye on say Barcelona won't want to bring in young players as they're thinking about their CV and instant wins to attract a bigger club to hire them.

Darren Hind
185 Posted 02/06/2021 at 21:02:34
Colin,

That's not true that I dismissed them all straight away.

Kept my powder dry about Koeman... But tore into him when I saw the transfer window him and Walsh had – wrote an article about it.

I was really interested to see how Silva got on, especially in light of some of the stuff Steve Ferns was writing about him. However, I got panicky when I realised he would not shift from Zonal Marking – I think I wrote an article about that too.

I was in total support of Big Dunc as I thought he was a breath of fresh air. I definitely wanted him to be given the rest of the season to see if he had what it took and if that passion was sustainable.

I was fearful of Carlo because I didn't think he could get anything out of these players – I deffo wrote an article about that. I didn't really start going for him though until it became blatantly obvious that he had no intentions whatsoever of playing any footy.

I don't subscribe to this "give him time" shite. It doesn't take 3 years to see if a manager is taking us in the right direction. If the writing is on the wall early – and it clearly has been for most of our previous managers – I don't believe there is any point in prolonging the agony.

When Carlo Ancelotti arrived at this club, there was a real feelgood factor. Duncan Ferguson had turned the ship around and had the crowds and all the media buzzing about the passion he had brought. Carlo Ancelotti destroyed it. He hasn't just left a team which finished 10th heading south. He left a squad of players who have long since forgotten how to play football. One which is now conditioned to spoiling games... if they can be arsed.

He may not have been a magician, but he managed to pull off the best disappearance since David Nixon was hiding behind an unsteady screen.

The next manager, whoever he may be, will get my full support. But it won't be unconditional.

Jay Harris
186 Posted 02/06/2021 at 21:02:35
Nuno should be plan B i.e. acceptable if we cant persuade a top coach to come.

I would like to consider plan A - the best around:-

Nage who is on the brink of replacing Nuno at Wolves.

Rangnick - potentially better than Bielsa.

Flick, Gasperini, Ten Hag, Pochettinho (although still under contract with PSG), Inzhagi, Marcelo, Lopetegui, Conte and Galteri of Lille.

They are all out there if we seek them out. Get Brands on the job and don't listen to lazy arse Bill.

Anthony A Hughes
187 Posted 02/06/2021 at 21:02:46
Whoever gets interviewed and offered the job is going to ask what is required of him and what he will have to spend to achieve said goals.

As it stands the squad is sub-standard without any players that could threaten a Top 6 team – despite what some posters have previously said.

Tony McNulty
188 Posted 02/06/2021 at 21:04:13
In the end, we'll all get right behind our new manager (whoever it is).

And we'll probably all start the season with the wide-eyed optimism that August often brings.

I suspect Moshiri is fresh out of wide-eyed optimism though. Given all he has spent, he must be beginning to feel he has fallen for the three card trick.

Clive Rogers
189 Posted 02/06/2021 at 21:04:47
Kenwright is the one pushing for Moyes, but I can't see Moshiri going for that.
Eddie Dunn
190 Posted 02/06/2021 at 21:05:47
Some bonehead comments on here regarding Wolves' performance last season – they lost Jota and Raul. It's like if we lost Richarlison and Calvert-Lewin.

I'm not too excited at the prospect but Nuno is a decent coach and Wolves have played some good stuff under him. Even this season, where they have struggled for goals, they have been easier on the eye than us.

No to Mr Moyes, returns don't usually turn out too well.

Julian Exshaw
191 Posted 02/06/2021 at 21:07:20
Maybe it's a stupid question but who chooses the manager and how do they do it? Are there advisers? Do they turn to Marcel Brands? Are they holding hands in voodoo sessions? Are they scrolling through Google? Bing? I'd really love to know.

Who has the ultimate say? Bill or Farhad? Can we trust them to make the right choice?

I'd go for someone with the love for Everton of Duncan, the passion of a Simeone (toned down by 50%), the tactical nous of a Bielsa, the charisma of a Guardiola, the cunning of an Alex Ferguson and the work rate of a Silva (no denying he put in the hours). Easy eh?

Fran Mitchell
192 Posted 02/06/2021 at 21:07:21
If getting Moyes comes with a bonus of getting Rice and Soucek in midfield, I'm game.
Thomas Richards
193 Posted 02/06/2021 at 21:08:49
Tony, 188.

In the end, no chance of me getting behind the new manager if the new manager's name is David Moyes.

Anthony A Hughes
194 Posted 02/06/2021 at 21:12:37
If it's Moyes, can someone please switch the light off on the way out so we can kiss our collective arses goodbye.
Paul A Smith
195 Posted 02/06/2021 at 21:12:45
Love the way the lazy arse Echo just echos other lazy journalists and calls out shite without comment.

Kenwright wants Moyes, duuuurrrr..the most boring rumour anyone could come up with.

Only a lazy person would not consider Moshiri was surely impressed with Moyes this season and not consider it might be bullshit. And the Kenwright obsessives love it then regurgitate that empty statement.

Not one statement from the club today and The Echo who are supposed to be close to the club and your help towards Everton news, spread shite a ToffeeWebber could make up.

They haven't even considered how Moyes left Silly Billy hanging on a new contract then walked away.

Mark Ryan
196 Posted 02/06/2021 at 21:12:46
Gav @ 183, you're no doubt right but I'm sensing we're stalling the project and looking at lesser calibre candidates.

Nuno, as Jay said, should be the Plan B, not first choice. I mean yesterday Nuno he was nailed on for the Palace job. Very underwhelmed right now.

Kieran Kinsella
197 Posted 02/06/2021 at 21:12:56
Barry

So it’s Orson Welles? And people call Sam Fat

Anthony Murphy
198 Posted 02/06/2021 at 21:14:03
It's all a bit shit, isn't it. Finish 10th, Carlo walks and our board draw up the most underwhelming shortlist known to man. They seem unable to do innovative, imaginative thinking when it comes to managers and just go for whoever has had a half-decent run at a smaller club (Ancelotti being the exception).

How many managers have we seen come and go in the Premier League over the years who show some promise, but ultimately aren't all that? This fella was just about to jump on board with Palace and was totally screwed with a couple of players missing last season. It's not that he is the worst manager available but, for me, just one of many we've seen a million times before.

Also what the bloody hell is Brands doing? Isn't he the football ‘expert' at board level? Does he have a say? I was hoping to hear Brands had identified the right fit for his model but yet the same old names are churned back out with a few dull-as-fuck additions. I just can't work Brands out – can someone tell me how he has improved us during his tenure?

If we aren't in a place to attract a top manager (Conte, Pochettino) and none of the usual suspects are inspiring, then bring in someone with a proper footballing brain, like Ralf Rangnick who can instil a footballing philosophy and can identify a suitable replacement to keep his dynasty going when the time is right. Clearly Brands isn't getting to put his ideas down and Rangnick would provide the route and branch overhaul required.

Rob Halligan
199 Posted 02/06/2021 at 21:15:50
Come on now, Thomas, be reasonable, you've got to give him at least 2-3 months before calling for "Moyes Out".
Barry Hesketh
202 Posted 02/06/2021 at 21:16:29
An insight into the guy who might become Everton manager.

Nuno - My Idea

Jeff Armstrong
203 Posted 02/06/2021 at 21:17:05
If it is Nuno, that will mean André Gomes will at least be starting the first few games, so we're playing with 10 men from the off!

Julian, #191, so you want Darren Hind then!

Ken Kneale
204 Posted 02/06/2021 at 21:18:32
Tony - hopefully Mr Moshiri will realise all Kenwright says is not true and finally get rid, along with all the other entourage.

All names mentioned seem more like Bingham and Lee to me than Catterick and Kendall but no doubting this is a big appointment and with it an opportunity to aim for a European spot playing good football. Realistically that would be sound progress in the immediate aftermath of what has gone before for nearly a decade barring the Martinez first season.

Duncan McDine
205 Posted 02/06/2021 at 21:18:42
Godfrey and DCL both on for England FC
Thomas Richards
206 Posted 02/06/2021 at 21:18:51
Apologies, Rob.

I promised myself I would give the new manager 8 hours before I decided he was crap.

Andy Walker
207 Posted 02/06/2021 at 21:19:09
Moshiri just let a world-class manager go without a fight. Why? I expect Ancelotti gave Moshiri a few home truths about the quality of our squad. Moshiri didn't like hearing the truth as that would mean he'd have to wake up and realise he's pissed £200 mil +away on bang-average players.

Remember Moshiri said when he recruited Ancelotti, that we had a squad of top-quality players and all we needed was a top manager to get the best out of them. Moshiri was wrong then and wrong now. Problem is he's in denial.

Tony McNulty
208 Posted 02/06/2021 at 21:21:50
Thomas (193)

Moyes wouldn't be my choice either.

Remember when 69 year old Maurice Chevalier was asked how he felt now he was approaching his 70th birthday? He said he didn't like it, until he thought about the alternative.

Not getting behind Everton isn't really an alternative.

Andy Walker
209 Posted 02/06/2021 at 21:24:41
Moyes. ALL. DAY. LONG.
Gavin Johnson
210 Posted 02/06/2021 at 21:25:08
Fran #192 Well we all know too well Davie has form for going back and trying to poach players so maybe we should get him in as manager after all. I think Rice and Soucek are two of the best midfielders in the Premier League.
Mike Doyle
211 Posted 02/06/2021 at 21:27:26
Calling Sam Hoare. Sam you recently posted an interesting analysis of players EFC might look to sign over the summer. Any chance you could post something similar about the managerial options?
Brendan McLaughlin
212 Posted 02/06/2021 at 21:29:28
What happened to "We support Everton, not the manager"?
Anthony A Hughes
213 Posted 02/06/2021 at 21:31:16
I don't think Sam Hoare can add much more than what's already been debated. What's clear is that there's no outstanding candidate that could come in without 300 million to spend to threaten the top 4.
Anthony Murphy
214 Posted 02/06/2021 at 21:32:04
Hi Thomas #201

I mentioned Ralf Rangnick because we need someone who isn’t a yes man - totally get this wouldn’t sit well with Brands as DoF but he isn’t doing it for me. I also appreciate he needs players to play his pressing game, but he’s a smart man and is a bit of a German Bielsa or Wenger even - It’s at the very least worthy of consideration compared to some of the other candidates mentioned.

If truth be told I’m at a bit of a loss mate, but Everton do need to get this one right that’s for sure!!

Phillip Warrington
215 Posted 02/06/2021 at 21:34:16
No top manager is going to come to Everton other than to pass time get paid huge sums of money and wait for the next high-profile job offer. The managers that are left have been in the Premier League and got nowhere so now why not try a tag team of Feguson and Unsworth and at the very least bring some pride and passion back to the way Everton play?
Sean Kelly
216 Posted 02/06/2021 at 21:35:01
Roy Keane and Duncan that will clear the decks. Might even frighten teary away too.
Kieran Kinsella
217 Posted 02/06/2021 at 21:35:44
Paul A Smith,

The Echo is one of the worst. I have seen quite a few things in the last few years where the Echo were rubbishing reports as rumors until the "rumors" have been shown to be reality on the BBC football page.

David Thomas
218 Posted 02/06/2021 at 21:39:33
I’ve got a few work colleagues who are Wolves season tickets who told me Nuno did a good job for them but the fans general consensus what that his football was a bit negative.
Barry Hesketh
219 Posted 02/06/2021 at 21:39:55
Anthony @214,

I'm beginning to wonder what it is that Brands is actually responsible for, it appears he doesn't have much say on who should be recruited as manager.

Many on here seem to think re-hiring Moyes will result in a better transfer policy for Everton, so that would make Brands' position redundant. It would seem that only Unsworth has any real contact with Brands when the pair watch the various youth teams play.


Ian Riley
220 Posted 02/06/2021 at 21:40:16
Having Carlo was like for example George Clooney in Coronation Street. Just didn't feel right. We were not ready for Carlo without spending £300 million or the squad competing for the league or Top 4 on a regular basis. Having Carlo was lovely to tell friends and proud we got him but really it was not the right fit at this time.

My belief is David Moyes should be installed by Monday on a 5-year contract. Time to bring the great man home and return us to our regular Top 7 – then we can build for Champions League. Time for some structure and realism. We are miles away from Champions League and most of us know it. Moyes will be honest and demand more than Carlo in work rate from the players. I want passion, desire and the shirt to mean something! Moyes is still the only manager who I saw get angry when players were not pulling their weight.

Our owner has spent nearly £500 million and got us no further. We need value for money and a manager who can pick up a bargain and improve the team. The boom and bust mentality must stop now. New stadium? We can't sustain the ups and downs of the past 8 years pouring money down the drain with no end result. We need stability!

Come home, David, and save us!!!

Michael Barrett
221 Posted 02/06/2021 at 21:41:25
Doesn't matter a jot who we get, the players a bunch of losers and shit themselves when they had a chance of doing something in a season, the like we probably won't see again.

I wouldn't look no further than Duncan if only so I can see him scare the shit out of them when they underachieve.

Jimmy Hogan
222 Posted 02/06/2021 at 21:42:28
When we lost to the worst Liverpool team in living memory in the semi-final of the FA Cup, I fell out of love with Moyes.
David McMullen
223 Posted 02/06/2021 at 21:43:35
I'd rather say no no. Can live with Moyes or even Martinez. But I don't want more Koeman/Silva flavour of the month managers. I am still getting over Mike Walker.
Gavin Johnson
224 Posted 02/06/2021 at 21:43:42
Reports coming from Portugal saying Nuno should become the new Everton manager now.

Thinking about it, Nuno might be good in terms of continuity. In that there won't be a complete sea change in style of play and Nuno is used to working with a director of football model. Mendes made the signings. That means Brands can go for the some of the targets already identified and we won't have to wait until well into the summer to make signings.

Anthony A Hughes
225 Posted 02/06/2021 at 21:43:47
Brands uses his scouting network to identify potential quality players at a good price and negotiate deals to suit the desired style of football...hence Delph, Iwobi..etc..hmm?
Andrew Bentley
226 Posted 02/06/2021 at 21:44:00
The hiring of Ancelotti gave us all hope and ambition for bigger things. What really guts me is that none of the managers that are being mentioned inspire any sort of hope or ambition.

When we are fishing in the same pond as Crystal Palace and West Ham it really sums up where we are. A mid table team at best

I want someone who gives us hope and let’s us dream of bigger things

Graham Mockford
227 Posted 02/06/2021 at 21:54:02
Let me just say I always liked Moyes, some of the stick he got was ridiculous but for fucks sake he had his chance. In the name of God no, no and fucking no
Andy Walker
228 Posted 02/06/2021 at 21:54:46
Hi Andrew, you’ve hit the nail on the head for me. Ancelotti gave me hope we really could get better. I don’t think Moshiri would back him though and now we are left with the memory of what could have been. I hold Moshiri to account for this. He didn’t like his own vanity project being questioned by a world class manager. Carlo didn’t have to prove anything to Moshiri and as a result we have fallen back into the group of also-rans, clubs who will never have the chance to finish top 4. We had that chance with Carlo in charge and blew it.
Ian Pilkington
229 Posted 02/06/2021 at 21:55:51
Andrew@226
Totally agree.
We should be talking to Conte and Benitez.
Rob Halligan
230 Posted 02/06/2021 at 21:57:08
Gavin, # 224. If that's true, then his first signings should be Raul Jiminez, Neves and Neto from wolves.
Andrew Ellams
231 Posted 02/06/2021 at 21:58:11
I can't believe you're all still talking about the new Everton manager when Trent's got a poorly leg. Get with the program people.
Mark Ryan
232 Posted 02/06/2021 at 21:58:53
Moyes = no cups, no wins at Analfield and some want him back ? Why ffs
11 more years of dross. Have some hope, have some desire, please. No more Moyes talk
Andy Finigan
233 Posted 02/06/2021 at 21:59:46
You know you can't even get a tune out of some of our players under Carlo. How the heck is nuno supposed to get a tune out of this shower.
Anthony A Hughes
234 Posted 02/06/2021 at 22:01:33
What's Walter Smith up to?
Alan Corken
235 Posted 02/06/2021 at 22:01:41
To those of you who do not want Moyes to return, I beseech you from the bowels of Christ to think it possible that you could be mistaken
Paul A Smith
236 Posted 02/06/2021 at 22:03:21
Kieran 217 its a joke of a paper and to think it is supposed to big us up and give the fans real fuel..

You've got to be mad though to regurgitate things like The Echo has said blah blah when it is really a rumour from FootballInsider (a clear internet journo) or some other net trawler like them.

Barry Hesketh
237 Posted 02/06/2021 at 22:03:46
Andy @228
You can't categorically say that Moshiri wasn't prepared to back Ancelotti with money in this upcoming window, it might well be the case but it isn't a known fact. We could have had top 4 in 2021 but for whatever reason Carlo couldn't be arsed motivating his squad and the squad couldn't be arsed motivating themselves.

In hindsight, my theory is that Carlo made sure that his squad was motivated in the Premier League games against the ESL mob, but in the other matches he wasn't bothered too much as those games don't grab the headlines on the European networks. It also shows that he's a good manager for matches involving the top sides but lacking when it comes to working out the dangers of those teams he deems inferior.

It's not Moshiri's fault that the manager couldn't get a tune out of his squad regardless of how poorly the squad is, particularly when he's paying the said manager a king's ransom to do the job.

Anthony A Hughes
238 Posted 02/06/2021 at 22:04:06
From the bowels of Christ sprung forth 11 years of mediocrity, await the second coming and the resurrection loyal Followers
Terry Farrell
239 Posted 02/06/2021 at 22:04:39
No to Nuno
No to Moyes
No to Howe
Would love Conte but he will be London bound. Would love Dunc but not sure he wants to be head honcho.
No to Benitez
No to Gérard
Brendan McLaughlin
240 Posted 02/06/2021 at 22:05:05
Yes Mark#232
Cos it's been upward and onward since he left?
Rob Halligan
241 Posted 02/06/2021 at 22:05:51
So Andy # 233, what you're basically saying is that no manager on this earth could get a tune out of these players. Where do you reckon we should look, Mars, maybe Mercury or Fucking Pluto??
Mike Doyle
242 Posted 02/06/2021 at 22:09:07
Andrew #231 ] Expect Trent’s bad leg to dominate tomorrow’s back pages.
Sean Kelly
243 Posted 02/06/2021 at 22:10:36
It’s time for big balls usmanov to step in. He could bus the dross at finch farm to some far flung area of Russia. Hopefully he will also have room at the Russian spa for Moyes Howe Martinez and dyche.
We need a nasty bunch to get this club out of this depressing slump that has gone on for too long.
Rob Halligan
244 Posted 02/06/2021 at 22:10:45
Mike, ITV panel are gutted!!
Barry Hesketh
245 Posted 02/06/2021 at 22:11:00
Mike @242
I think it will dominate the back pages all summer long.
David Pearl
246 Posted 02/06/2021 at 22:11:43
Ffs the only reason to talk to Benetez is to give him our order. Tres cerveza por fa vor fatty
Paul A Smith
247 Posted 02/06/2021 at 22:16:04
Wolves have broke FFP rules and gone backwards this year.
Dale Self
248 Posted 02/06/2021 at 22:16:27
No offence Alan 235 but what are you doing up Jesus' butt?
Brendan McLaughlin
249 Posted 02/06/2021 at 22:18:01
Aye David #246
& he'll get that wrong
Soren Moyer
250 Posted 02/06/2021 at 22:20:04
On second thought, Christophe Galtier seems to be a decent candidate too! Specially this part "He is also capable of taking a bunch of leftovers and making it not only tasty but a Michelin star dish."
Link
Mark Ryan
251 Posted 02/06/2021 at 22:22:21
Brendan
No it's not been great at all but let's move forward and get Conte, a winner. Let's not look backwards. Second comings never work, never.
I'm not mistaken Alan, we are not mistaken. He needs to stay with West Ham. Pound to a pinch. He'll be sacked by West Ham before the next season is out.
Don Alexander
252 Posted 02/06/2021 at 22:26:24
Our owner has reached the end. He's spent half a billion assembling a squad worth way less than that, he's signed managers who've only proved to him that his "project" is Fantasy Island, in his boardroom he has people who are as clueless as he's now shown himself to be (and he now knows it), and now we, the fans, are standing like he is on the edge of a vertiginous precipice in terms of the future.

And all the while he knows, if he's honest, that he's been exposed to the football-world as a non-entity, the owner of a club and a patch of ground right next to a crumbling decrepit riverbank, with a chairman who's led him to this point.

Any buyers out there?

No piffling offer refused!

Andrew Ellams
253 Posted 02/06/2021 at 22:27:47
Mike, so much fuss over the 4th choice right back.
Rob Halligan
254 Posted 02/06/2021 at 22:28:47
With regards to poor Trent, he already has a headline on the BBC football website.
Andy Finigan
255 Posted 02/06/2021 at 22:29:57
No Rob 241 what I am trying to say is its going to be a bit like Moyes going to united after Fergy for our next manager.
Justin Doone
256 Posted 02/06/2021 at 22:32:01
No no no!

We can't afford to waste time and money appointing another 2nd rate manager. I hope Real Madrid have paid £20M+ to nab Carlo. The remainder of his contract.

Nuno couldn't adapt a team and group of players he knew well to play 4 at the back successfully.
I don't understand why he wanted too after relative success with 5 at the back.

Another 'did well', but ultimately not good enough. Next.

Moyes is the minimum, the benchmark. If we can't get better, then get Moyes. But honestly, shows some ambition.

Mancini, Renieri, Wenger, Potter and Lampard are 5 I'd rather have.

Brendan McLaughlin
257 Posted 02/06/2021 at 22:39:45
Mark#251
There were plenty of ToffeeWebbers predicting Carlo Magnifico would leave Moyes in his slipstream in 21/22 but not by jumping ship
Mike Doyle
258 Posted 02/06/2021 at 22:40:07
Andrew. With Trent’s leg and “Hendo” less than 100%, looks like England’s chances may have gone before the tournament kicks off.
In other news - St Virgil of Van Dijk still has a bad leg too.
Soren Moyer
259 Posted 02/06/2021 at 22:42:38
Justin (256), Mancini is hired by Italian FA, Ranieri is too old and has been sacked too many times, Wenger is maybe older than Ranieri and has taken up a FIFA job.
As for Lampard, I can't see why he is even being mentioned tbh!
Rob Halligan
260 Posted 02/06/2021 at 22:43:25
Mike, hasn't "Hendo" also got a bad leg? Are they all legless at mordor?
Kieran Kinsella
261 Posted 02/06/2021 at 22:44:16
Maddock of the Mirror just posted an article saying Mosh is rushing to get Nuno, Brands is less sure and wants to take time to make the right decision. Others are pushing for Moyes. So pretty much as expected although apparently Alan Irvine just quit WHU to move back NW. Everton weren’t as good post Irvine so maybe that’s a clue?
Bill Gienapp
262 Posted 02/06/2021 at 22:45:44
LOL. If Brands literally does nothing else as DOF except block Moyes's appointment every time we have a managerial vacancy, I'd say he's earned his coin.
Michael Barrett
263 Posted 02/06/2021 at 22:48:16
Rob halligan that no legged team sprinted passed us mate into fourth, what does that make Everton awnsers on a postcard.
Mike Doyle
264 Posted 02/06/2021 at 22:51:09
Rob. Are you suggesting a “Holy Trinity” of bad legs?
Rob Halligan
265 Posted 02/06/2021 at 22:52:55
Could be Mike. Michael Barrett not very impressed though. 😁😁
John Kavanagh
266 Posted 02/06/2021 at 22:54:37
Rob@254 - It's down to the villainous Pickford who gave TAA a hard stare after he was beaten on the wing. Pickford still hasn't been sentenced for his previous vicious attack on the Blessed VVD.

I expect a period of national mourning for TAA will be declared by the assembled RS media pundits.

As to Nuno, I suppose it's the best we can get, but any managerial appointment is a huge risk. If the negotiations stall, I'd give the job to Duncan and give him until November to prove he's up to it by sorting out all the wasters in the squad.

He could take them all to Florida and show them the alligators close up. Even on land, our midfielders would be too slow to escape.

Kevin Molloy
267 Posted 02/06/2021 at 23:05:18
West Ham fans are going to want Moyes to make a statement pronto, and if he doesn't it will damage his position there. So if we do want him, we're going to have to get our skates on. Moyes will probably say, if you want it to be me, you need to offer it to me right now.
Gary Willock
268 Posted 02/06/2021 at 23:08:57
Reports about that Duncan has tonight said “I am ready”. If it’s true, then for me that would change everything. If he is confident, then give him a go. If he’s the ‘reluctant sheepish coach’ then go external.
Brent Stephens
269 Posted 02/06/2021 at 23:10:47
If Duncan is saying he's ready, then Darren finally gets his man.
Tom Bowers
270 Posted 02/06/2021 at 23:13:56
I have always said that midfield is the difference between the haves and the have-nots. We are currently a have-not team with many pretenders and very few actually delivering the goods.

Everton persisted with a second rate collection of midfielders which just conceded too much territory by poor marking, lack of speed and weak tackling.

Our limited offence of DCL and Richie were expected to live off crumbs and they did well to score the goals that they did especially DCL. Richie was guilty of dropping his head a lot and didn't help his cause,

Some started the season no too bad i.e the new boys Doucoure, James and Alan but after they all had injuries they never really got going again.

I also suspect that Carlo became blase' about the situation thinking 4th.or 5th. was a shoe-in but he was unable to light a fire under the team when push came to shove.

Changes in personnel are inevitable after a season like this so let's all hope finally the right ones are made.

Seb Niemand
271 Posted 02/06/2021 at 23:22:27
No No No No No No No! Santos is just repeating the mistakes that landed us Martinez, Silva and Koeman. I'd rather have Fat Sam back.
Dave Evans
272 Posted 02/06/2021 at 23:23:50
I don't know what the stats say but Wolves were the only team that I watched that were more negative and unadventurous than us.

If you like to see a full back cutting the ball back, Nuno's your man.

Colin Glassar
273 Posted 02/06/2021 at 23:25:29
We all love Duncan but passion alone isn’t enough to manage Everton, neither are all the coaching badges under the sun. If he doesn’t have the tactical nous to outwit his opponents then he will fail. Brands is the only football person at our club and it is he who should make this decision as Waldorf and Statler haven’t got a fucking clue!!

I still think Moshiri was quite happy to see Ancellotti leave rather than having to sack him mid season. Like the JFK assassination the truth will eventually come out.

Dale Self
274 Posted 02/06/2021 at 23:26:18
Aye, cannae get my 'ed around that! If Dunc is making noises I think it could change my preference. It is a massive risk but if Dunc says he's ready and players are with it then so am I. I will make yet another offering to my Dave Watson shrine to try and make sense of it all. Irvine a friend of Dunc's by any chance Kieran ?
Jack Convery
275 Posted 02/06/2021 at 23:30:09
If Everton appointed a stopped clock as manager it wouldn't even be right twice a day !!

If it's Nuno so be it. No former managers thank you.

Fran Mitchell
276 Posted 02/06/2021 at 23:34:11
Rooney? Derby got saved from relegation on the last day of the season Rooney? Lost 50% of the matches he's managed.

Yeah, he's a good shout because he .


What about Li Tie. He's China manager and played about as many games for us as Rooney did. So surely a shoe in

Mike Gaynes
277 Posted 02/06/2021 at 23:36:14
Wow, I miss a lot when I'm working.

OK, I guess I'd be okay with Nuno. His Wolves always played highly organized, highly motivated footy and generally got the best out of their talent, especially last season. And the beard is cool.

Jack Convery
278 Posted 02/06/2021 at 23:41:23
Stop Press !! RS Organising a petition to get the Euros pushed back by a month so TAA can be fit to play.

Conte played 3 central defenders at Chelsea with Moses and Alonso as the wing backs.

Nuno lost twice to EFC last season - just saying.

Did the black cat run across the pitch when we playing Wolves and Silva was manager ? Did Carlo wish Nuno good luck when they embraced at the final whistle a couple of weeks ago ? Did they know then ?

Did Carlo realise he was flogging a dead horse when he mouthed WHY, Why to Godfrey against Sheff Utd ?

Fran Mitchell
279 Posted 02/06/2021 at 23:43:40
I'd be ok with Big Dunc.

We are a bit lost, no identity, no structure, no real plan.

Brands is D.O.F. but has not really done his job - he's been restricted to selling off/loaning off players, and doing paperwork for Ancelotti's buys, or Moshiri's ego purchases. If Big Dunc was the man, maybe, just maybe Brands could actually lead the way and do what we hoped he was going to do give the club a long term strategy based on youth and potential.

If Brands could identify a good coaching team, and a no2 for Ferguson, a tactical brain to work alongside the 'coach', it just may be what we need.

A couple of seasons finishing 10th, but with a long term plan being implemented and a good guy at the helm may be acceptable.

But if we keep.finishing 10th, but keep changing managers, stockpiling dead wood and no plan for the long term, then it's just miserable.

Dale Self
280 Posted 02/06/2021 at 23:46:58
Okay Jack, I was going to refrain but after that I demand a separate post where we can all offer our theories of what, how and why it happened. Personally, I'm thinking it went down like the discovery of who Kaiser Soze was in the Usual Suspects (Yank cultural reference there but well worth your 90m for the unaware on that side of the pond).
Colin Glassar
281 Posted 02/06/2021 at 23:49:08
If it’s between Duncan, Nuno and ginge the minge then I’d go for Duncan.

If it’s between Nuno and ginge the minge then I’d go for Nuno.

If it’s between ginge the minge and fucking Iwobi then I’d go with fucking Iwobi any day of the week!!

Karl Masters
282 Posted 02/06/2021 at 23:53:19
Some of what I read on here baffles me.

People saying Wolves were unadventurous at Goodison less than two weeks ago . they had 9 corners in the first half alone. What they were missing all season it seemed was a focal point in attack. The young Silva just nothing like the injured Jimenez and their good work petered out in the last third.

For a bit of perspective under Nuno, they won at Man City Spurs twice, Arsenal, Everton, Liverpool and drew at Old Trafford, Stamford Bridge with games they did lose Often being close fought and entertaining where they gave it a good go.

I’m not saying he’s the right man, I really don’t know yet, but he’s done enough with a Club that spent most of the previous 35 years out of the top division to seriously consider him.

Jack Convery
283 Posted 02/06/2021 at 23:55:16
Dale I love a good conspiracy because it relieves me from my depression caused by watching EFC.

I want Duncan to leave EFC and be a manager elsewhere and come back to EFC, when he is a success. I suggest WBA and he can sell us Perriera and take Iwobi on loan and Delph / Bolasie for free.

Dale Self
284 Posted 02/06/2021 at 23:58:56
So it doesn't hinge on Ginge then. The Presbyterian High Priest of Prosaic Footy is given way too much pixel here. Any actual quotes from Dunc? I think I'm prime for persuasion from someone who without any fucking doubt loves the club and would do whatever he could, including take the advice of a good No. 2 to do the right thing. It could be messy at times but we would not come up short on effort that is for damn sure.

And hey Jack, was writing while you were. Sorry that EFC has given you some stuff to work thru, better times ahead man, I know it sounds pollyannish but I'm really not that type. I think Nuno could steer us through this but I've got to believe Dunc would just grab us and throw us forward.

Kieran Kinsella
285 Posted 03/06/2021 at 00:14:56
Dunc is the wildcard. If it’s Moyes it’s 6th - 10th every year, no trophies, no big six away wins. Solid, safe, kinda boring.

If it’s Dunc? All bets are off. Who knows what would happen. A Glaswegian Klopp? Or an Evertonian John Carver. Certainly be interesting

Jim Harrison
286 Posted 03/06/2021 at 00:17:37
Last season wolves were hit with injuries and never really got a run together, the two seasons before they were excellent. A Wolves fan I know is distraught he left.

Playing counter attacking football? Isn’t that where our best results have come from over the last few seasons? And the team we have isn’t going to morph over the summer unless wholesale changes are made.

Not overly fussed for him though. A very Silva+ appointment if it happens. As with any new manager we get he has the same issues, need a new right back, powerful CM, need to add goals.

Gavin Johnson
287 Posted 03/06/2021 at 00:21:17
I was over the moon when Carlo got the job and I always said I'd like Dunc to take over when Carlo retired after moving with us into the new stadium. That's hardly come to pass but you know what they say about best laid plans?! Well as it turns out half of that dream can happen. It's a few years off when I'd have liked but it feels a bit like now or never for Dunc.

I'd still like us to try and get Poch, but failing that it's Dunc or Nuno for me.

Peter Thistle
288 Posted 03/06/2021 at 00:24:41
I'd go for Nuno, he seems to know his stuff and can sign decent players. BTW stop talking about Moyes, he''s just signed a 3 yr deal with West Ham, thank fuck.
Kieran Kinsella
289 Posted 03/06/2021 at 00:32:54
“The Spectre of Moyes” was probably the best and most apt headline I’ve ever read on ToffeeWeb. Lyndon needs to do an update. While, I don’t like to be negative or too critical of anyone who did their best for the club, FUCK the Moyes stories. Enough already. He’s old. 3 years younger than Carlo having won NOTHING. He’s found his new Kenshite in East London where sixth is like first; and the meek shall inherit the Earth. I don’t dislike him, I think he did what was asked for us, but NO. NO NO
Matthew Williams
290 Posted 03/06/2021 at 00:45:21
Goalkeepers don't tend to be top class managers, can anyone name any? Yes he did well at Wolves but Mike Walker did well at Norwich and we know what happened there.

The candidate list is really unaspiring to be honest, I would probably let Duncan F have a a go at it to be honest, it excites me more than any of the managers we are strongly linked with.

Kieran Kinsella
291 Posted 03/06/2021 at 00:48:05
Mathew

Raymond Goethals and Dino Zoff spring to mind.

Ian Horan
292 Posted 03/06/2021 at 00:53:07
Moshiri has a golden opportunity here to save 750 million.. appoint Moyes and 50% of supporters declare I am finished with Everton. Boring football will get attendances plummeting. That will be the point he saves his 750 million, scrap BMD, redevelop Goodison a stand at a time and everyone is happy. Moyes keeps us in the top league, a smaller investment on redevelopment of Goodison. Sells up and fortunately he gets his money back and breaks even groundhog day, Oh the joys of being an Evertonian!!!!!!!
Stephen Vincent
293 Posted 03/06/2021 at 00:53:18
Dale, don't you mean prozac footy!
Steve Brown
294 Posted 03/06/2021 at 01:06:45
In my deluded state of misguided optimism, I keep hoping that Everton are using the crap names being bandied about as a smokescreen to go and get Pochettino.
Derek Thomas
295 Posted 03/06/2021 at 01:11:58
Get Nuno in if you like...or whoever, to run the team, but it's still the same team that has seen off his predecessors...and until they decide they can be bothered to get off their arses, not much will change.

The real key points will be how much Brands has to spend, how wisely he spends it and does Nuno still have the phone number of the agent that helped him at Wolves.

It's the hope that kills you.

Jamie Crowley
296 Posted 03/06/2021 at 01:17:50
Please God let this happen
Kieran Kinsella
297 Posted 03/06/2021 at 01:25:29
Steve Brown

Me too but then I think of recent events. Carlo says we need new wide players and attackers. Then The Echo say Brands says Anthony Gordon will be in the first team squad next year and we give Broadhead a new contract.

Andrew James
298 Posted 03/06/2021 at 01:42:24
I say Moyes because this squad will work for him. The defence is already there so he will probably play Digne with Bernard like Pienaar and Baines then DCL leads the line with Richarlison in a Cahill/Fellaini role.

Buy to fix the right side and we are much better.

Best coach we've had this century and finished 7th in his first full season with a lot less money than the recent coach.

Nobody has got near him since he left and he had little to spend. I know he had his faults and has his detractors but the nonsense we've had subsequently...really?

Jamie Crowley
299 Posted 03/06/2021 at 01:46:13
Nuno will get us playing attacking, entertaining football. I would kill to have this guy as our next manager. He's brilliant, his brand of footy is brilliant, and with financial backing he'll flourish.

The first thing I texted my boys when I learned Carlo was out the door was, "I hope we get the Holy Spirit in."

I would go from despair to jubilation were Nuno hired.

Kieran Kinsella
300 Posted 03/06/2021 at 01:58:24
Jamie 299

As a fellow Catholic I’m sure you’re familiar with the 11 (no Judas) apostles quivering like cowards after the crucifixion. Espírito Santo showed up and the rest is history.

Lee Brownlie
301 Posted 03/06/2021 at 02:17:53
Nuno.. no.. what's he done with Wolves, apart from getting them flattering to deceive in glimpses?.. Been there far, far, FAR too often in recent times, haven't we??

David Moyes, the prodigal's return?.. Also a no, for me..

I mean, come on, how are run-o-the-mill like this gonna progress us in any way whatsoever? At least we could DREAM, some of us, leastways, of such a thing happening under Carlo A.

There are no instant standouts, although some kind of younger, hugely more up for it and enthusiastic 'team' involving Big Dunc and, ideally, another Evertonian might be a good place to start.. (Let HIM get his own man aboard!)

Otherwise, as totally up in arms as some would be about it, and keeping with the been-there-done-that type of manager, then it'd have to be Benitez for me...

(As for Carlo, f* him and all his shallow 'thanks', now!.. turn-coat!!!)
Mark Taylor
302 Posted 03/06/2021 at 02:25:53
If that's the shortlist then it looks more like damage limitation than my hopeful thought that Usmanov is the real owner of the club, with bottomless pockets and a grudge to bear.

In which case, we could do worse than Nuno, mainly because he will be cheapish, and the money saved can be spent on trying to get players who can pass a ball forwards.

Not Moyes. For all the brickbats, he over achieved in his time with us, but second comings never work, and are sometimes disastrous.

Liam Mogan
303 Posted 03/06/2021 at 02:28:21
What does it all matter? Whoever is in charge it is invariably mid table mediocrity studded with 3/4 decent performances a season. This is life
Derek Knox
304 Posted 03/06/2021 at 02:51:42
Be interesting to see if they have any other interviews and who the candidates may be, or will that be it, after a ponder, when Nuno has left the room?
Mark McDonald
305 Posted 03/06/2021 at 03:26:41
Sorry a BIG NO to a Moyes return. He had his time. Now its time to move on.
Kieran Kinsella
306 Posted 03/06/2021 at 03:28:58
Mark Taylor

I’m sensing a new era of pragmatism

George Stuart
307 Posted 03/06/2021 at 03:37:40
Sorry everybody. It was my fault.
I happened to chance upon a YouTube video called something like "The beautiful football, Ancelotti at Real Madrid".

I confess to making the mistake of enjoying it from a footballing perspective. :^(

I have the opinion that we have performed much less than our players are capable of for nigh on ten years. It would be nice to have a manager who could gee up the players. For goodness sake, I've enjoyed watching Leeds this year. Words I never thought I'd type. I don't know what Marcelo Bielsa did but I enjoyed it. There, I typed it again.
Strange days.

Kieran Kinsella
308 Posted 03/06/2021 at 03:47:17
George Stuart

No offense mate but this is the moment when I go like Begbie from Trainspotting and say “so you’re the ****” before starting a mass pub brawl. On the plus side, you’ve learnt a lesson.

Annika Herbert
309 Posted 03/06/2021 at 04:46:23
Daniel @ 141, why not Moyes indeed? Why not bring back a manager who has won sweet fuck all in his entire career?

Twenty six years without a trophy and he was in charge for 11 of them. Why would I not want him back?

Jamie Crowley
310 Posted 03/06/2021 at 04:55:47
Kieran @ 300 -

Brilliant. Like, utterly brilliant.

That's how it will go down if we hire The Holy Spirit to run the show.

Seriously though, I really like this guy. Always have. I've thought he's a wholly underrated manager and what he did with Wolves was superb. I always enjoyed watching Wolves and was honestly jealous of how they played year before last.

For me he's the #1 choice without question. Surely Mosh will open up the bank and sweeten the deal to get him in.

Jamie Crowley
311 Posted 03/06/2021 at 05:06:21
George -

Leeds have been an absolute joy to watch. Superbly entertaining football.

I can see the comments now - can't defend, leak too many goals, etc.

Who honestly gives a flying fuck?! We haven't won a damn thing in how long? Jesus above, just minimally entertain me on the ride, please!

If we played like Leeds I'd be thrilled, 100% down with that, right behind all of it. Why?

Because it would be fun again.

Koeman, Fat Sam, Silva - all just dour. The only joy I've gotten in my time is under Martinez! I did like Carlo a lot. But that was more down to the way he represented Everton. The guy is classy. Like blow on the coffee classy.

But the football was defensive and not inspiring.

I want my ass to be out of a sitting position when I watch again. It's been near what? 6-7 years since that happened?

Ergo, Leeds-like is just fine by me moving forward. Give me a bunch of 5-4, 4-3 score lines please. I honestly just want to see us playing "fun" football again.

Jay Harris
312 Posted 03/06/2021 at 05:25:25
I have a major problem with Moyes and/or Big Diunc in that they would both be beholding to he that should no longer be at the club.

My personal favourites are Rangnick and Galtieri and the hope that it is left in the hands of Brands rather than the clueless duo.

Havent heard a bleep from our CEO on this most important matter I suppose that just as well.

Martin Faulkner
313 Posted 03/06/2021 at 05:29:57
A few posters have mentioned Ralf and I seem to remember he was in the running a few years ago, maybe around the Koeman time?
I'd have this bloke over Nuno & Moyes anytime (Admittedly Wiki but still)
Ralf Rangnick (German born 29 June 1958) is a German professional football manager, sports executive, and former player who was most recently head of sport and development at Red Bull GmbH.
He is considered to be one of the most influential coaches and executives in the world.
After an uneventful career as a player, Rangnick began his coaching career in 1983, at age 25. In 1997, he was hired by former club Ulm 1846, with whom he won the Regionalliga Süd in his debut season. Rangnick was then appointed by Bundesliga club VfB Stuttgart, winning the UEFA Intertoto Cup in 2000, but was fired following a string of poor results. In 2001, he joined Hannover 96, winning the Bundesliga2, but was dismissed in 2004.
After a brief period with Schalke 04, Rangnick signed with 1899 Hoffenheim in 2006, and achieved successive promotions to lead the club to the Bundesliga.
He departed the club in 2011 and returned to Schalke 04, where he won the 2011 DFB-Pokal and reached the semi-finals of the UEFA Champions League.
In 2012, Rangnick joined Red Bull as the director of football at Red Bull Salzburg and RB Leipzig; he also served as the head coach of the latter across two periods between 2015 and 2019.
At Red Bull, Rangnick helped oversee their expansion into European football, emphasizing the recruitment of unproven players and developing youth systems with a worldwide scouting base, alongside an attacking on-pitch philosophy across their clubs.
As a result, Red Bull clubs rose in market value from €120 million to €1.2 billion during his tenure, with its largest club, RB Leipzig, peaking in value to €270 million in 2019.
Their clubs have also seen sustained domestic success, and generated sizable profits with player transfers, which led to his promotion to head of sport and development in 2019. He resigned from Red Bull in 2020.
Rangnick invented Gegenpressing, whereby the team, after losing possession, immediately attempts to win back possession, rather than falling back to regroup. His sides have been noted for their pressing and high attacking output, as well as for popularizing zonal marking. Rangnick has cited his main coaching influences as Ernst Happel, Valeriy Lobanovskyi, Arrigo Sacchi, and Zdeněk Zeman, and is credited for influencing Thomas Tuchel, Julian Nagelsmann, Ralph Hasenhüttl, and Jürgen Klopp.

John Maxwell
314 Posted 03/06/2021 at 05:38:14
Anyone who can see that Iwobi, Sigs, Gomes, Davies, King, Delph, Bernard are shite gets my vote.

I think Nuno may get it, my 2nd choice is Duncan (being mentored by Joe).

Martin Faulkner
315 Posted 03/06/2021 at 05:49:18
What about the Atalanta guy? Gasperini
Likes his attacking footy
"Atalanta have set the world alight in their logic-defying charge up the Serie A table. Even if they never get around to actually winning it, it's been an old-fashioned football fairy-tale, and at the core of it is Gasperini and his flagrantly optimistic tactics."
Brian Murray
316 Posted 03/06/2021 at 05:50:37
Jay. post 312. Besides maybe some update on the ground move or the community or thanking us for our support did you actually think another inept sidekick of teary arse would have something useful or profound to say about this mess ? These people have a vice like grip on our club and we will never repeat never really compete until they are gone. No matter who gets the nod. Enemy within most definitely. That’s no witch-hunt or daft rant. Just another sad fact from a very sad deflated blue.
Paul A Smith
317 Posted 03/06/2021 at 06:03:18
Soren I read that link on the Lille manager and it sounds impressive. A 442 man. I like the sounds of the work he has done too and now hes a winner.
Stewart Smith
318 Posted 03/06/2021 at 06:16:26
I know he wouldn't be seen as fashionable because he's Australian but we should have gone for Ange Postecoglou who looks like he's about to get the Celtic coach. Brilliant coach/manager.
Billy Dawber
320 Posted 03/06/2021 at 06:46:17
Sick of foreign managers now so my choice would be Dunc with Rooney as his understudy and Baines running the training sessions. I know people will jump up and down about the Rooney link but he has won everything as a player and is a scouser through and through. Knows what the crowd want and certainly knows how to score goals. Dreams are free apparently so I will carry on dreaming I guess.
Colin Glassar
321 Posted 03/06/2021 at 07:06:34
Rangnick for me out of the whole sorry bunch being mentioned. He’s a man with a plan. The rest are just, meh.

Sounds like billy bullshit is desperate for darling David to return. Mosh wants Nuno. And Brands wants neither of them. I’m with Team Brands!

Barry Cowling
322 Posted 03/06/2021 at 07:08:10
its a definate no from me for nuno or Moyes, benitez was loathed at newcastle for his turgid football. Its Farke from norwich for me, a very forward thinking manager and has them playing on the front foot and defensively solid
Eddie Dunn
323 Posted 03/06/2021 at 07:08:52
I would like us to consider Vincent Kompany currently at Anderlecht. Apparently doing a good job. Surely worth looking into.
Marc Hints
324 Posted 03/06/2021 at 07:15:56
Colin @321

Exactly what I said previously, what he has done at RB Leipzig is nothing short of remarkable, he always has a clear plan set out has done wanders there. Very forward thinking coach.

Colin Glassar
325 Posted 03/06/2021 at 07:25:43
Apparently, we are in no rush to appoint the next manager and Brands will have a big say in who it is.
Andy Walker
326 Posted 03/06/2021 at 07:31:35
John 314. Love it hahaha
Marc Hints
327 Posted 03/06/2021 at 07:47:02
As long as its not Kenwright who has the final say!
Ian Jones
328 Posted 03/06/2021 at 07:48:38
Alan J Thompson
329 Posted 03/06/2021 at 08:00:34
Do we seriously want Duncan Ferguson as manager? It wouldn't be long before we had a dozen Moise Keans just wanting out. Now some of you might think that if it was certain players then that might not be a bad thing but as a Manager you have to have tactical ability and something more than just shouting and frightening players and you can't just substitute all those players not doing what you want. Or is that just how he is seen by a great majority who don't think it can do any harm?

The more I read about him the more attractive the guy at Atalanta seems.

Anyone yet know when next season starts as whoever it is, and his staff, will need to move to the area, get upto date on the current playing staff, work out which areas take priority in terms of improvement and then start pre-season at least a month before the first game.

And then this schedule needs to be cross-checked with Mr Moshiri's and has Mr Ryanstev(?) made any comment on anything recently or does he only speak on yachts in Monaco?

Jonathan Tasker
330 Posted 03/06/2021 at 08:22:45
NES
Not
Everton
Sort
It’s a no from me
Tony Everan
331 Posted 03/06/2021 at 08:30:16
Ian #328

You don’t think too much of Nuno then?

Scott Robinson
332 Posted 03/06/2021 at 08:33:34
I think Ferguson has the tactical nous. We saw that in the games in charge after Silva.

The difference in elite sport is the mental side. A top manager relies on others to become successful. He has to instil in the mindset of his team to succeed and perform at the highest lead.

The last few managers have had various degrees of tactical ability but haven’t brought the best out of our team.

I for one think there is enough ability in this squad. We haven’t had a manager who can consistently get the best out of the team.

Ferguson may just be the man, getting his team to run around like Biesla, because it is Everton they are playing for. Not a £50,000 week contract with just another club.

Rob Halligan
333 Posted 03/06/2021 at 08:34:58
Are the Jedwards joined at the hip?
Dave Abrahams
334 Posted 03/06/2021 at 08:35:35
I voted for Ralf Rangnick, he was an indifferent player so went into coaching, studied it well and has been successful in different spheres of football, coaching and managing and last of all, Mr.Moshiri might be impressed with the fact he made money for his last club with,shrewd, buying players cheap and moving them on with a very good profit, the very opposite of Everton’s policy the last few years, in other words he won’t waste money he’ll grow it!!
Rob Young
335 Posted 03/06/2021 at 08:35:37
Alan #329, I agree with you about Big Dunc.

I love the fella. Idolised him as a player, never doubt his love for the club and was made up when he did so well as a caretaker manager.
However, I was worried it wouldn't be able to last. For the same reason you gave. Maybe it would have, and that would (have been) the dream scenario but the team had already run out of steam in his last match v Arsenal.

Sam Hoare
336 Posted 03/06/2021 at 08:50:21
I reckon it’s highly unlikely that Moshiri takes the risk on Ferguson with the new stadium in the offing. Dunc has next to no experience as a first team manager and needs to prove his credentials at a Championship club or similar before he could be deemed safe. Perhaps if we had a more settled and stable squad it could work but it would be unfair to hand him this lot.

Nuno is a sound if unspectacular choice. He would most likely keep us in the top 10 though the football would probably be dull. As an affordable low risk move it may make sense to Moshiri.

I’d love to see someone who tries to get us playing some better stuff like Rangnick or Potter but perhaps the transition would be too painful given our current players!

Joe McMahon
337 Posted 03/06/2021 at 08:50:47
Thing is surely if Duncan was to be a manager, he would have already been doing that. Just like Unsworth he can't hang around Everton waiting for an approach. Gerrard is doing very well at Rangers and may one day manage you know who, but I admire him for learning his trade big time and not hanging around on the coaching staff at Liverpool.

As has already been stated Duncs 4 game spell was enjoyable but it was running out of steam. We won 1 match.

Danny O’Neill
338 Posted 03/06/2021 at 08:51:37
I mentioned him early in the debate Dave Abrahams. Visionary coach who Klopp, Tuchel and co followed. He introduced "gegenpresser" tactics, not Klopp, contrary to popular media belief. We should have gone for him when it was rumoured years ago. He influenced a generation of successful German coaches.

Off on a tangent, gegenpresser is an interesting one. The tactic of trying to instantly regain possession after losing it by staying high and putting pressure on the ball immediately rather than dropping and forming shape. You need the players to do that. Repeat warning; we need better players, not just a new manager.

My fear is that he's out of reach being Director of Football at RB Leipzig. But, if we were bold and went for it, Brands' position could be in doubt for that reason. He's already operating at that level at a club in the Champions League. Unless Moshiri moves Brands to more of a "C-level" position.

The man doesn't take shit and builds from the bottom up. He's managed big clubs, he's dropped to the lower leagues and got teams promoted. He's developed youth. He's a German coach, they are well rounded in covering all bases.

I'd love that one, but just can't see it. Seems increasingly likely we'll end up with Nuno, but let's see.

Oh and in a fantasy land far away, should that one happen, health warning. Zonal marking. It's what they do. But you need the players to do it well. We need better players.

Off to play my scratched records!!

Tony Everan
339 Posted 03/06/2021 at 08:57:28
I can’t see Moshiri taking any unnecessary risks with his project and signing a manager with little experience, maybe even one with no Premier League experience.
I think it will be Nuno Espirito, Benitez, Moyes (please no), (Pochettino be a massive coup but it is unrealistic).

I’d be happy with Nuno as a I think we are a project he will throw himself into , sometimes it’s about the right man at the right time. Nuno has had good experience, is a good age to make the next step. The vigour, energy and motivation will be there.

I’m a bit of a dreamer but maybe Nuno is this right man at the right time to turn Everton around and give us some much needed success.

Moyes and Benitez are both very good mangers but the divisions they would cause could create a Big Sam syndrome. ie When things take an inevitable short term downturn fans will be on their case big time , they’ll be struggling to operate in that vitriolic and toxic environment.

Rob Halligan
340 Posted 03/06/2021 at 08:58:03
Alan # 329. I think next season starts on 14th August. With the Euro’s starting next week, the transfer window is going to be pretty quiet, and with Everton due to report back for pre-season training around 5th July, it could be a while before we see any new players through the door. Whoever we appoint as manager, it has to be done within the next few days, so at least we can be updated on possible transfer targets. If it’s to be Nuno, just make sure Jiminez, Neto and Neves come along with him!
Jonathan Tasker
341 Posted 03/06/2021 at 08:59:32
Duncan will be at the club as long as Kenwright is there
He will be forced onto the new manager
What kind of way is that to run a business?
Hugh Jenkins
342 Posted 03/06/2021 at 09:03:33
Colin (325). Where did you hear this?
Danny O’Neill
343 Posted 03/06/2021 at 09:08:12
Whoever it ends up being Jonathan, they must be allowed to bring in their own setup. Not have the old boys network imposed upon them because they used to play for Everton. If they decide that they want Duncan / them, then fine by me, but I can't for one minute think this has been the case with several recent managers.

Then they can succeed, fail and be judged on their own decisions and basis.

Too much emotional influence remains at Everton and it seems to still be there with this latest appointment. I hope I get proven totally wrong, but I'm not sure I will be.

Shaun Laycock
344 Posted 03/06/2021 at 09:11:35
Seems like a knee jerk for me. I'd be happy to have a young manager on a 1 year rolling contract, see what made he's of, then have a look. Interim head coach or some such designation.
Rob Halligan
345 Posted 03/06/2021 at 09:13:05
Danny, would Dunc be welcomed into Nuno’s gang, or would he be cast off? Can just imagine Nuno singing to Dunc “Do you wanna be in my gang, my gang, my gang, do you wanna be in my gang, Oh yeah”!!
Danny O’Neill
346 Posted 03/06/2021 at 09:14:12
In fairness Shaun, that's pretty much what we've been doing since Moyes left when you average it out!!

Okay maybe more than 12 months, but not quite 2 years??

Colin, I hope this is true. This has to be Moshiri and Brands making the call, whoever they go for.

And despite my or anyones wishes (I know mine now), there is an element of realism in who we can realistically target given where we are. Unless we can sell the "project" again.

Bill Gienapp
347 Posted 03/06/2021 at 09:17:44
Glad to see Graham Potter get a few shouts. I like him. I have no idea if he'd be the right man for the job. Brighton have had a few alarming skids on his watch. But I like him (and not just because he bears an uncanny resemblance to Tobias Menzies).
Mat Smith
349 Posted 03/06/2021 at 09:23:27
As others have said I’d love to see what Ralf Rangnick could if given the opportunity

Unfortunately though I can’t see it happening and we’ll disappointingly end up with Nuno, which I don’t think will be a bad choice but can’t see him shaking things up and taking us drastically forward

Tony Everan
350 Posted 03/06/2021 at 09:25:22
Danny 343, Absolutely, if the new manager had current coaching staff imposed upon him as part of negotiations it would be criminal. He should be allowed to make his own decisions on who he retains or brings in, however drastic that may be.

I think it would be better if there was a total clear out of the old boy network and some fresh ideas, new training regimes, and a winning mentality was brought to the club. Everton should embrace the changes as necessary and not fear it.

Danny O’Neill
351 Posted 03/06/2021 at 09:26:53
Tony @339. I think you're right.

Originally I was in the wait and see who they appoint camp. But inevitably you get sucked into the who it should be debate.

I'm going with Rangnick as my ideal choice, but I know that is not realistic and probably not even on the table.

So I agree, right now, for where we are, Nuno is probably the best choice for Everton given what is available. To a previous point, it plays to us having a fairly sizeable South American contingent + Gomes, so I can see the logic there. It also seems to be where Brands' scouting network looks.

Mike Doyle
352 Posted 03/06/2021 at 09:27:52
Rob #345 ] I wonder if any ITK posters could clarify why it seems to have been a condition of recent managerial appointments that a role must be found for Duncan Ferguson?
Irrespective of Duncan’s abilities you don’t see this happening at any other PL club - at least I don’t think you do.
Maybe I’m wrong and it does happen elsewhere, but if we are unique then we seem to have yet another entry for the “Everton that” scrapbook.
Rob Halligan
353 Posted 03/06/2021 at 09:38:17
Mike, I think we all know who is responsible for Duncan Ferguson keeping his position within the club……The Teary Eyed One. He would have Moyes back if he could, closely followed by Rooney. It would bring tears of joy to his eyes if that were to happen.
Tony McNulty
354 Posted 03/06/2021 at 09:40:42
Really funny line from the Echo:

"With no European football next season to consider, there is a solid base for the next manager to build his new ideas and start the club on what will be their latest project."

So failure to get into Europe provides a solid base.

Can anyone think of analogous solid bases? For instance:

"I've lost my job and my house has been repossessed. This now provides the solid base on which to build my future."

"My ship has capsized and sunk to the bottom of the ocean. I am flapping around out at sea, unconstrained by the design of my former ship, but it does give me the right sort of solid base I now need to move forward."

Solid base? More like a squashy blancmange.


Sam Hoare
355 Posted 03/06/2021 at 09:44:28
Danny@351, Brighton have been a bit up and down under Potter but they have had their two best point hauls under him. Not by much (only a few points) but he has at least improved them and I think they were very unlucky not to do better last season, scuppered by terrible finishing/brilliant goalkeeping on quite a few ocassions. They play nice football with a talented young team and if he stays there I think he will break their points record again and very possibly move them close to the top 10. Though against him, they have spent a bit of money so should be expecting progress of that kind.

He's a young, modern coach who has improved every team he has joined and has an identifiable style/philosophy which produces pleasant football to watch. Sounds good right? Though I thought exactly the same of Marco Silva!

Nathan Ford
356 Posted 03/06/2021 at 09:44:53
If we get nuno in and he brings Neto and Neves I'd be happy. Problem being I think both players are out of our financial reach
Danny O’Neill
357 Posted 03/06/2021 at 09:45:38
Rob, I could go off on a complete tangent on that one!

Mike, simple fact is we don't know. It just seems odd. I'm struggling to think of (but happy to be corrected on) a top club, in the modern game, that departs ways with the manager on several occasions yet retains one of the most important coaching positions (on paper).

Even when Ancelotti brought in his own (Davide), there seemed to be some arrangement that Ferguson retained a prominent position as Assistant Assistant Coach.

Many talk about ex-Evertonians being the only ones who've won anything for us as manager. Me more than anyone understands that sentiment (key word). But let's look at this.

Howard Kendall; arguably one of the best English midfielders of his generation. His talent unrecognised by his national team as much as it should have been. Won a league title in what some call the best Everton team they've seen playing alongside 2 of the other best players they've ever seen. Cut his teeth managing elsewhere before the Everton job came calling.

Joe Royle. Played in the same title WINNING team. Cut his teeth elsewhere as a manager before the Everton job came calling.

Duncan. As Joe Royle put it; was always in danger of becoming the legend before the player. And he did. Played in mostly average teams and personally as a player, never lived up to expectation. Even when he went to, what was at the time, a better team that he could have excelled at, he didn't quite cut it and came back.

I don't wish to be harsh. I love Duncan. I love his passion. I love his love of my Everton.

But he is someone who has always shown potential but never reached the heights. If that's what people want because he loves Everton and is passionate, then appoint me.

Conor McCourt
358 Posted 03/06/2021 at 09:47:06
Bill @347- I'm with you in terms of the upandcomers. I would certainly favour Potter ahead of Howe and Nuno. I worry that if we appoint the Portuguese will we be dependent on agents as much of his success at Wolves was dependent on that relationship. I'd be worried about it being transferable to us.

For me Potter would be the most exciting of the three. I agree that what he has actually achieved doesn't look as shiny as Nuno or Eddie but I feel he has done it from much less backing.

People are obviously impressed by how his teams play but I see him like a hybrid of the best of Moyes and Martinez. Like the Scot his teams defend quite well and he has a superb eye for a player and especially the bargain basement types. Whereas like Martinez he always picks a player who fits in with his philosophy and knows how to build a squad and takes the game to the opponent fearing no-one.

The worry like you is that his teams aren't just as clinical as a Martinez and there is a doubt about his teams getting over the line. Whether having better quality finishers at Everton mean there is no ceiling to what could be achieved is the exciting part as his teams create endless chances.

Derek Thomas
359 Posted 03/06/2021 at 09:52:16
Get Nuno in if you like...or whoever, to run the team, but it's still the same team that has seen off his predecessors...and until they decide they can be bothered to get off their arses, not much will change.

The real key points will be how much Brands has to spend, how wisely he spends it and does Nuno still have the phone number of the agent that helped him at Wolves.

It's the hope that kills you.

Danny O’Neill
360 Posted 03/06/2021 at 09:55:30
Sam @355.

Agree, I think Potter has done really well with Brighton and it's great to see these teams coming up, staying up and trying to play football the right way.

But your Silva point. I'm scarred from us appointing managers who have been down there and taking a gamble on them.

Maybe the timing is wrong for Potter. The telling point will be next season when they are not a surprise anymore.

Look at Villa versus Sheffield United this season. This time last year, people would have been screaming for Chris Wilder, whereas if we'd have been considering the Villa manager we'd have all been having kittens.

I think with Potter, and this isn't related to Everton, its wait and see. I hope he does well as he's trying to do the right things. But then so was Martinez.

That's why I'm more comfortable going with proven rather than potential given where we are and want to be.

Paul Hewitt
361 Posted 03/06/2021 at 09:59:43
I think people are forgetting who we are. All I read is he's not good enough, or him. We are Everton, mid- table Everton. The club of failure. Get real, yes we got Carlo. But he probably thought his chance of managing a big club again had gone. Plus 11 million a year helps. Personally I think the manager with come from either Nuno, Moyes or Ferguson. Are they good enough?, Who knows. But whoever gets it will have my 100% support.
Derek Knox
362 Posted 03/06/2021 at 10:00:25
Rob @ 333, I think they are joined somewhere, but we won't go into, that this a family site! If the Jedwards say No, we all say Yes! :-)
Joe McMahon
363 Posted 03/06/2021 at 10:00:47
Danny and Rob 100% with you. Its just as I stated about Gerrard, he loves Liverpool but has gone on to manage elsewhere first. Joe Royle did wonders at Oldham, the best years in their history, and Kendall was doing fine at Blackburn.
Brent Stephens
364 Posted 03/06/2021 at 10:09:37
I'm concerned, of course, about who we now appoint as coach. But the biggest problem remains, whoever the coach is - we need to move so many players on and bring in some real quality. Nothing has changed in that respect.
Danny O’Neill
365 Posted 03/06/2021 at 10:13:57
I've played my scratched records enough already Brent, so I will just say I agree!!
Ian Pilkington
366 Posted 03/06/2021 at 10:29:13
Despite a remarkable amount of support for Moyes on here, his current standing in the poll is mercifully 5%, although zero would be preferable.

The fact that Moyes is shamefully in the running proves that the biggest mistake made by Moshiri since he bought the club has been retaining Kenwright, the charlatan who presided over the longest run of failure in our history.

Utterly depressing.

Bill Gienapp
367 Posted 03/06/2021 at 10:39:39
Conor (358) - this is why the process is so exhausting. You make a very compelling case for Potter, and it makes me hopeful he might emerge as a legitimate candidate. But I'm sure someone else can step in and lay out all the reasons why he'd actually be a terrible idea and we'd be crazy to hire him.

Anyway, I said yesterday that I didn't have the energy to get swept up in yet another managerial search, but that clearly didn't last.

Rob Halligan
368 Posted 03/06/2021 at 10:40:07
Ian, there are one of two people who disagree with you, particularly # 361. He can't seem to understand why kenwright is such a bad influence.
Lester Yip
369 Posted 03/06/2021 at 10:49:52
We had tried different managers since Moyes left. Up and coming young coach with new ideas and play beautiful football, big name manager who won so many trophies in the past, fireman who saved us from relegation... but the truth is we are more or so in the range from 7 - 12th in the league.

I would allow Duncan to have a shot. Why? Firstly, he won't ask for a massive big contract. Secondly, Brands would make the call of who we're signing, young with potential. (I don't like the idea of 29ish players being bought for a large sum and long contracts.) Thirdly, he has shown he can motivate players to play and not worry about changing shape. If Chelsea can allow Lampard to have a go, why not let Duncan try?

Ian Jones
370 Posted 03/06/2021 at 10:52:37
Hi Tony Everan, like your message to me @ 331. If it was referring to my blank message @328, I had posted a link which I found wasn't working...so deleted my entire post...

Hopefully the link below works

I would be reasonably happy to see Duncan Ferguson be offered a chance. Not sure if he would necessarily be the right man to lead us forward in the long term but be would certainly not suffer fools gladly as this link possibly demonstrates if it works. It would also end thoughts on whether he is good enough to lead our club, bit like the Alan Shearer stint at Newcastle and Dalglish's second coming at Liverpool (although those didn't end well).

Link

Chris Mason
371 Posted 03/06/2021 at 10:56:39
It’s a very thin field to choose from. Perhaps it is for all clubs given Real Madrid had to go for a guy like Ancellotti who is happy to work there under financial constraints.

Reading the Everton comments I get the sense that folk are split between the ‘young, hungry’ manager and someone more proven.

My feeling is we tried a Hollywood manager who simply used us to wait for a bigger job. We were his £11m holding pattern. We also aren’t going to risk a relative unknown like Potter or whoever. Those guys might be a busted flush next season, and I’d rather it was with another team.

Nuno seems like to best of both worlds, and most key would be able to get the most out of our better players, including James. In terms of attracting players of caliber - Ancellotti did that and it didn’t work. As others have said, we are a mid-table team with higher aspirations. Sadly our club seems to lack the durable culture to deliver on those aspirations. Time and again we look to appoint managers who have appeared to make teams more than the sum of their parts. And when they arrive at GP they tend to fail to repeat the magic.

So Nuno for me simply because he has built decent teams and achieved beyond their expectations. We offer enough scope to stretch his previous achievements and take us higher up the table. Past experience tells me we have to work on delivering the basics right on the pitch and the culture behind the scenes before dreaming of trophies and European football.

And I am mindful of Alex Ferguson’s comment about goalkeepers never making successful managers but…it’s a thin market for managers.

Nick Bower
372 Posted 03/06/2021 at 10:58:02
Gone off Jörgi Löw. Agree now with all the Ralf Rangnick supporters - a master tactician, football philosopher & the ideal man to rejuvenate our floundering School of Science ethos.
Brian Wilkinson
373 Posted 03/06/2021 at 11:04:24
Duncan Ferguson, break the trend of getting Managers who look half decent at other clubs.

The time was not right 18 Months ago, my personal opinion, he is ready now to at last try and get some pride and passion back, surely at worst, he should be on the short list.

Marvin Tiebout
374 Posted 03/06/2021 at 11:07:14
Longtime reader 1st time posting.

My choice would be Zizou. Surely you would at least make the call and ask him after what he said on leaving Madrid. He wants something long term, is a proven winner and the 1st time he left Madrid they dropped right off, came back CL semi and 2nd la liga. Automatically gains respect as a worldly ex player and 3 time CL winning Manager and obviously doesn’t care about reputation, got rid of Bale and James and bought in young hungry players from the youth system.

Zidane
“I’m not tired of coaching. I’m leaving because I feel that the club no longer gives me the confidence I need, it doesn’t offer me the support I need to build something in the medium or long term”.

Joe McMahon
375 Posted 03/06/2021 at 11:09:16
Lester, as I stated earlier on this thread Lampard reached the play off final with Derby (beaten by Villa), and don't forget one of Kenwrights Everton Family was minutes away from relegating them last month.

Frank Lampard also did well in his full season at Chelsea when they had a transfer embargo getting them in the top 4. Duncan has not had the same managerial experience.

Paul Hewitt
376 Posted 03/06/2021 at 11:10:48
Is Kenwright's a failure. What does that make Moshiri?
Mark Taylor
377 Posted 03/06/2021 at 11:13:56
Rangnick could help deliver what we desperately need to make progress- adding value to players that are brought in and playing with a clear structure and method- but I agree with Danny 338, I doubt he would be the manager, more a replacement for Brands. You then have to ask yourself is Brands is up to the mark and if this is time to start afresh.

Someone like Rangnick is likely to have a much broader influence on the vision and strategy on the football side, and that might change the brief for the manager somewhat, someone who is more of a coach who can implement Rangnick's brief. That would disqualify Nuno and especially Moyes. It might make Ferguson more of an option but like others, I have my doubts about his talent, if not his committment. In truth, if we purused Rangnick in the role described, he, not Moshiri or Billy, would be picking the coach.

James Marshall
378 Posted 03/06/2021 at 11:16:48
We're an average PL club, with average aspirations, average players, average league positions etc. We're just about average in every department so expect an average manager who will start well then flounder like all the others.

Whoever gets the gig will last about 18 months tops, then get fired as we languish in mid table ad infinitum. Being an Evertonian is about being average at best. We never win anything, we never get anywhere, we never progress or improve to any great level and we've been rubbish to watch for years barring a short spell when Martinez was in charge.

The competition in the PL is way beyond us - we finished 10th last year on merit. It was absolutely where we deserved to be and I see nothing to indicate anything is going to change anytime soon.

Ancelotti said Everton aspire to play in Europe and that's it, that's the limit of our ambition, and he's right. If you employ a top manager but have an average setup and average footballers, you'll get average results regardless.

You could bring in Guardiola and we'd still be shit.

Shaun Laycock
379 Posted 03/06/2021 at 11:40:38
Frank Lampard as an outside shout. Did very well with Chelsea in difficult circumstances and then bought some cracking players. Wouldn't have the same sort of money but bought young exciting players players (with pace).
Alan Corken
380 Posted 03/06/2021 at 11:49:04
James @378: Everton average? I think you are being a bit too optimistic in your assessment. Bloody dreamer!
Craig Walker
381 Posted 03/06/2021 at 11:54:01
I don't think Harry Potter could make us a top team again, let alone Graham Potter.
Paul Baxter
382 Posted 03/06/2021 at 11:56:19
Regarding Duncan being foisted on every manager, if Ancelotti had to have him with his standing in the game when he joined then he is here regardless of who is given the job.
My preference is Simeone, can you imagine him and Duncan walking into the dressing room after another piss poor performance.
Mal van Schaick
383 Posted 03/06/2021 at 11:56:23
Nu. No thanks. No more blithering managers, I’ve had enough.

The transfer window opens shortly, and if we don’t have a manager in place by then, we will not be shipping players out, and how can we recruit players if we don’t have a manager in place? A new manager will have his own ideas.

It may even be that a new manager will come in, and have to assess what we have, and that will delay the rebuilding that we know is required.

Brian Wilkinson
384 Posted 03/06/2021 at 12:06:26
Ancolotti might be right James@378, but he certainly has a lot to answer for, certainly this season anyway.

We were in a great position this season for Europe, every game he played the same players, and the same subs, when things were not going well, he stuck by the same players, week after week, only 3 wins in our last 12 games of the season destroyed our chances of European football.

The players have to take some of the blame as well, but keep on playing the same players and same subs was obvious to everyone, that we needed to try something different.

So yes our ambition is to survive with Europe a bonus for the time being, but we had a fantastic chance of Champions league football, and we blew it big time.

The Manager has to take some of the blame for that.

One final point that another poster made and makes sense when you think about it, Carlo focused on the big teams and tended to get results, as the poster says world wide news when Everton beat one of the big boys, so hilighting Carlo more, than a win against The likes of Sheff utd, Burnley etc.

Whatever the reason, and no matter how poor some of these players are, we have a squad of well over 20 players, yet we seemed fixated of only around 16 of those.

Danny O’Neill
385 Posted 03/06/2021 at 12:10:42
Marvin. Welcome to the club of madness!

Seriously though, there are some great points on here on all sides of the debate.

Paul @376. Yes, Moshiri needs to take ownership. This is his thing so stop taking advice of supporters like me & Blue Bill. Be ruthless, be brutal. John Moores was. Take control; you are in charge, so make your own decisions or trust the person you have employed to do so and that is not Blue Bill. I would give you the same sentimental nonsense about how I used to stand on the Gwladys Street and how great we used to be. I can do that.

Rangnick would be my choice, but yes, at this stage, he'd be more of a Brands replacement. He's just overseen developing Leipzig into a European force with good business sense based on great transfer dealings backed up with his his impressive coaching pedigree.

He's been supporting and overseeing the development of a 33 year old (Nagelsmann) who is now going to be the next coach of Bayern Munich.

Sadly not to be, so I guess it's going to be Nuno.

Mike Doyle
386 Posted 03/06/2021 at 12:13:49
I see the Red Echo pointing out that the only positive social media message ref Carlo has come from Thierry Small. Also suggesting that a number of players have simply “unfollowed” him.
I’m not into social media (and frankly cannot be bothered to check), but, if true, I guess this is the current generation’s digital equivalent of cushion throwing?
Christopher Timmins
387 Posted 03/06/2021 at 12:15:15
Reports seem to suggest that Duncan wants the job and that's how it should be after serving as assistant to Carlo for 18 months. It's now or never for him and if he is not selected to manage the club then he should move on and find another role. The last thing he needs is another assistant manager role.

When things were at a very low ebb he managed to produce some high octane performances during his short period in charge. We played with an intensity that was subsequently not replicated.

If he gets the job I wish the best of luck.

Kim Vivian
388 Posted 03/06/2021 at 12:19:52
All these threads (totalling about 1500 comments so far - and I haven't read them ALL) sum up one thing - Basically, no-one's got a fucking clue, starting at the top, ending somewhere on tweb.
Brian Williams
389 Posted 03/06/2021 at 12:22:39
Just got an email from the club advertising an EITC Psychic night.

I replied asking if the psychic could tell us who the next manager will be.

Let's see if he/she is any good!

Ian Edwards
390 Posted 03/06/2021 at 12:29:20
Hearing it's Moyes. Straight in to favourite on Paddy Power and no bets being taken on him. Still 7-1 on Skybet. Fill your boots.
Danny O’Neill
391 Posted 03/06/2021 at 12:31:08
I wish whoever gets the job the best of luck.

I just hope that is not Duncan Ferguson or David Moyes.

But if it is, I wish them the best of luck as they will be the Everton Manager.

Brian Williams
392 Posted 03/06/2021 at 12:32:54
Is this the same Moyes that's allegedly just signed a three year contract with WHU?
Ian Edwards
393 Posted 03/06/2021 at 12:34:41
I don't think Moyes has signed the contract.
David Pearl
394 Posted 03/06/2021 at 12:35:40
Ian, 390
Did you just make that up?
Ian Edwards
395 Posted 03/06/2021 at 12:39:46
Moyes now 15/2 on Paddy Power. Odds moving about today!
Brian Williams
396 Posted 03/06/2021 at 12:41:15
Ian393.
Well give him a fucking pen QUICK!!!
Ian Edwards
397 Posted 03/06/2021 at 12:41:17
David 394. No. He was top of the list in Paddy Power with a padlock preventing bets. Now available at 15/2. Bizarre.
Terry Crean
398 Posted 03/06/2021 at 12:42:27
Brian #389r>It's been cancelled "Due to unforseen circumstances"
Gerard McKean
399 Posted 03/06/2021 at 12:44:56
Apologies if someone has suggested this already:

I have followed German football for many years and I’m a huge admirer of the way they take the long view by investing in the development of young talent. This applies to coaches as much as to players and it’s no coincidence that we are seeing so many outstanding coaches emerging there while still in their 30’s.

The call here from many for Ralf Rangnick to be named as our next manager is flawed in that I doubt even the man himself sees himself any longer as a front line head coach. However, what he is, what he has developed into, is a world class mentor of younger coaches aspiring themselves to become elite managers.

With that in mind I would not have a moment’s hesitation in bringing Ralf to Everton if it was with the intention of working alongside someone who has all the potential and credentials but lacks the experience of management.

Ideally that candidate would have the following qualities: a winning mentality evidenced by a successful playing career, intelligence, both in terms of IQ and football intelligence, knowledge of and commitment to innovative football strategies and tactics, multilingual and at ease dealing with players and media from all over the world, genuine leadership ability again evidenced from a playing career, ability to relate to fans who crave success on the pitch but forgiving to anyone committed to Everton, a willingness to learn and the ambition to become a great manager. I can think of only one person who ticks all the boxes: Phillip Lahm.

John Raftery
400 Posted 03/06/2021 at 12:51:19
Brian (389) Yes, I have received the same, inviting supporters to step into a paranormal world. I thought we were already in it!
Brian Williams
401 Posted 03/06/2021 at 12:53:30
John#400

I actually burst out laughing mate. The PR department must be full of comedians, their timing is impeccable!

Terry#398. Boom boom lol.

Danny O’Neill
402 Posted 03/06/2021 at 12:58:18
With you on that Gerard. I don't think Rangnick is a realistic option as manager even if he was a target. In terms of his own career, he's beyond that now.

If anything, you'd be bringing him in to replace Brands in the current Everton set up.

But food for thought, and this is not going to happen, but coming in to mentor a younger coach. Now there's an idea. But the club probably don't even have his name on the list.

I just think that in his role as DoF at Leipzig, he wouldn't take the step down. Both in terms of club (that hurts) and position.

I agree, it's fantastic how the Germans figure out very quickly whether they are cut out for playing at the top level or coaching and make the switch early.

It's one of the many reasons why they have succeeded on the international stage better than most and continue to produce players and coaches of genuine top quality on a consistent basis.

Steve Brown
403 Posted 03/06/2021 at 13:03:15
Our managerial hiring pattern before Ancelotti was Preston, Wigan, Soton, Crystal Palace and Watford. Two of those managers also got their teams relegated.

Now some are proposing hiring our next manager from Wolves (finished 13th), Brighton (finished 16th) and Bournemouth (relegated and resigned). I always thought the idea was to hire a manager with a better track record than our own - not worse. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.

The reason that media and pundits are pushing this calibre of candidate as that they don't respect us and don't want us to succeed. But we should expect better surely?

Conte, Galtier, Ten Haag and (possibly) Pocchetino are all potentially in play, so why would we even consider Nuno, Howe or Potter? If we can't get a top manager, I would actually prefer to give Duncan Ferguson his opportunity.

Gavin Johnson
404 Posted 03/06/2021 at 13:07:24
Gerrard #399 Thanks for the assessment of Rangnick. He sounds like he should be earmarked for Brands job
Colette Black
405 Posted 03/06/2021 at 13:08:07
My initial criteria are as follows:
No former players
No former managers
No dour managers
No morally bankrupt managers
No managers without top flight experience in a top footballing nation
No managers who have won nothing
No managers with an inflexible game plan
No managers who cannot motivate players to have a winning mentality
No managers who will not drop players for underperforming
No managers who wish to use us as a stepping stone
That's for starters. I would draw up a further set of criteria for those who satisfy the first set.
Danny O’Neill
406 Posted 03/06/2021 at 13:11:21
If Ten Haag is open to it, I'd be knocking on his door Steve. But I think someone mentioned he's just signed a new contract?

I'd love us to be that ambitious and bold.

I suspect we won't be.

But guess what, like everyone, I'll be here next season willing the next manager on!!

Jason Broome
407 Posted 03/06/2021 at 13:14:06
Claudio Raneiri is actively looking for a new job. He would be my first choice over Moyes and Nuno.
Andrew Hepburn
408 Posted 03/06/2021 at 13:18:12
@steve Brown 403.

To be fair, the appointment of David Moyes from Preston was very successful (relative to our performances and situation) and doesn’t fit with those other comparisons you have made. He was a young up and coming manager from the lower leagues who didn’t have a history of mediocrity and failure to take clubs to the next level.

The other appointments and the ones we are currently linked with do fit your description though and I agree we should avoid.

I think we should either be looking at top drawer successful proven manager, or a younger manager with potential who has actually achieved something. Not simply done ok for a season or two. Someone like Neil Critchley. There must be others here or abroad?

Then the sentimental old fool in me wouldn’t mind Duncan Ferguson either

Kieran Kinsella
409 Posted 03/06/2021 at 13:20:06
Dunc might be a Paolo Di Canio I fear
Alan McGuffog
410 Posted 03/06/2021 at 13:24:07
For God's sake give the job to Duncan. It'll be a disaster ( in my opinion ) but it would get it over and done with
Danny O’Neill
411 Posted 03/06/2021 at 13:34:16
Part of me is with you Alan. Let's get it out of our system.

Interesting. Since the 1980s, and I think George Graham being the last, there hasn't been an ex player that has won the league with their former team.

Sorry if I have unrealistic expectations for Everton, but that's where I want them to be. That's the expectation I grew up with and that's what I want.

Modern top level football doesn't hold much room for sentiment I'm afraid. But that's what we do and are good at!

Leave that to the fans.

We are Everton. We have won the league more than anyone other than United, Liverpool and Arsenal.

Start behaving and thinking like a big club. Like your predecessors who put us on the map did.

Luke Welch
412 Posted 03/06/2021 at 13:34:55
Give it to Dunc! See what he can do and let him grow into it. If he states he's ready then he's ready! Brands can do the buying and selling like he is meant too. No huge contract and nothing to lose as we aren't really aiming for that much, well nothing that Dunc with the right support couldn't possibly achieve.
Ian Pilkington
413 Posted 03/06/2021 at 13:37:07
Rob@368
Yes, my depression is not just the thought of Moyes, Big Dunc or Nuno (potentially Silva Mk 2) arriving, but that so many supporters are willing to settle for mediocrity.
At least I am lucky enough to have the memories of 4 First Division Championships, 3 FA Cups and a major European trophy.
Kenwright, on the other hand,always harks back to his favourite player Dave Hickson who played in one of our poorest ever teams. Sums him up rather well.
Tony Everan
414 Posted 03/06/2021 at 13:40:50
Nuno Espirito is the clear favourite on Betfair exchange he is right down at 5/4 to be our next manager.

If you don’t think that it will happen you can lay it at 6/4.

Not a very liquid market.

Jonathan Tasker
415 Posted 03/06/2021 at 13:42:32
Given that all of the recent post Moyes appointments apart from Allardyce have failed, the club ought to be seeking outside help in assessing the right criteria for the next manager.
There’s very little astute knowledge within the club on who to appoint.
Based on previous experiences the club seem to react on a whim rather than using considered judgment.
We are a perennial mid table team now so what we need is a manager used to operating at that kind of level but who is ambitious, can work successfully to a budget and is likely to stay rather than use the club as a stepping stone. Consideration of history means the new man knows we demand stylish football.
Graham Potter fits all of the above criteria.
Luke Welch
416 Posted 03/06/2021 at 13:48:45
Carlo Ancelotti’s representatives approached Real Madrid to make them aware that Ancelotti was unhappy at Everton and wanted to leave. They also told Madrid that he had a clause in his contract that would allow him to leave easily--from the Echo and wouldn't
surprise me one bit!
Tony Abrahams
417 Posted 03/06/2021 at 13:54:51
Walcott £150K a week and Big San wasn’t a failure?

Take your time Everton, because having so many different managers in such a short space of time has left us with way to many shortcomings inside the squad, with the only stability seemingly coming from those who seem to have a job for life.

Danny O’Neill
418 Posted 03/06/2021 at 13:56:34
Genuine question. Why do fans worry about contracts?

That's for the club to sort out. Just like they always have done.

I judge Everton managers and players on what they do on the pitch personally. I'm a supporter, not running the club.

Brian Murray
419 Posted 03/06/2021 at 13:57:02
Looks likely to be the pork n cheese catweezle, good luck Nuno and don’t be put off by having to sit through the scrapbook of the cannon ball kid by some white nelly who won’t do one.
James Marshall
420 Posted 03/06/2021 at 13:58:26
Going back to Moyes would be like me going back to my ex wife I haven't seen in 10 years. It didn't end well last time so why anyone would think it's worth another shot is completely beyond me.

Water under the bridge. This is why Everton is such a shambles and we never get anywhere - constantly looking backwards. I hate saying this, but I can absolutely see why supporters of other clubs laugh at us and our inflated opinion of where we stand.

Conor McCourt
421 Posted 03/06/2021 at 13:58:49
Gerard and Danny I respectfully disagree that Ragnick is past his days as a manager as his relatively recent stint at Leipzig proved. Don't forget the opportunity to manage in the top league in the world with a top seven or eight squad, a great pay packet and the funds to make a mark are obvious for any candidate as Ancelotti proved.

I would also suggest there lies less a conflict between Brands and Ragnick than his would-be predecessor. As Steve points out we don't really want to jump on the merry go round and Carlo's Houdini act mean we really aren't prepared for this outcome.

Brands has a three year contract which could also be offered to Ragnick with a team working under him who would be ready to step up when the time is right. From what I know about Ragnick (won't be as much as Gerard) but his skill set is much different to that of Brands whose more of a contacts, negotiations, board role operator. Both have very similar belief in youth hence their interests are mutually aligned and would give us that vision we all desire.

Steve I don't think the three you mention are first on people's wish list it's just two are the bookies front runners dependent on what the club is putting out. I think like yourself it's a smokescreen but if we are going down that route many are decifering over which one they would prefer.

Barry Hesketh
422 Posted 03/06/2021 at 14:07:54
Luke @416

I wish the Echo would start doing the leg-work before putting stuff on their live blog. ToffeeWeb has more journalistic integrity than some of those at the Echo. I'm not disputing the originators of the 'news' but
a) I'm not convinced of their information
b) I haven't a clue who they are or who funds them.

Wild speculation based on what they've read on here or Twitter and other less reliable sources? or in the know on what happens behind the scenes at Goodison and elsewhere?

Reliable?

Tony Everan
423 Posted 03/06/2021 at 14:08:33
Mr Moshiri is a dark horse, so who knows what’s happening behind the scenes. The Ancelotti appointment was a surprise for many.

Is it in the outer Oort Cloud realms of possibility that he is covertly selling the project to Pochettino with a 500m Moshiri-Usmanov war chest over 3 or 4 years to build a top 4 side ready for the BMD?

Or is that possibility way beyond the Oort Cloud and heading towards Betelgeuse.

Paul A Smith
424 Posted 03/06/2021 at 14:16:56
I cannot get my head around why people thought Allardyces time here was nothing but successful.

We had to buy that January. Has anyone checked where we were sat in the league until 2 forwards came?

Everyone with a working brain cell knew the deals we brought in were not ideal but we needed it.

It seems that personal opinions and narrative nobs will continue to bring his name up as often as it makes them feel good.

It was great last week when Narrative Nob Antonio gave the standard "Sams team have the big men up front" and Allardyce replied with facts.

Both forwards were smaller than Antonio but this nation is so fucking brain washed, he didn't even consider it.

So many one eyed views that all started with spoilt arse Wenger dropping points to Allardyce. Ooo they play long ball. He had great players at Bolton and beat Bayern Munich away.

Its unlikely an Evertonian under 30 will ever see a result like that.
Not saying he is great either but this Narrative is pathetic..

And footballers are just as stupid coming out with shit like Antonio.

Danny O’Neill
425 Posted 03/06/2021 at 14:16:58
Conor, I'll take that view every day.

My ideal situation is to see Rangnick come in, Brands remain but be more on the board level (maybe replace Kenwright?) and have Ralf mentor an up and coming coach.

Not asking for much I appreciate. And I know how unrealistic that scenario is.

But if Rangnick is an option in any capacity? Yes please.

John Raftery
426 Posted 03/06/2021 at 14:17:47
Colette (45) I think you should also exclude any manager who smiles and has nice teeth. Otherwise Brendan Rodgers might be eligible.
James Edwards
427 Posted 03/06/2021 at 14:20:04
Might be a little nearer say the kuiper belt with Moyes
Stuart Sharp
428 Posted 03/06/2021 at 14:20:21
Ian@413

Why would Nuno be Silva mark 2? Because he's Portuguese? Nuno got a Championship team promoted and then took them into Europe. That shits all over Silva's CV (in the UK, at least).

Nuno wouldn't be my first choice but we have to be realistic. I think even Potter would be worth a gamble, assuming the big boys aren't interested in us. How are managers like Potter ever supposed to become big boys anyway? Yes I'd prefer someone with trophies on their CV who might get us one soon, but does that person exist? I judge people like Potter by how he gets the team playing with the players/resources available, not by how glamorous his current employers are.

Pete Clarke
429 Posted 03/06/2021 at 14:20:49
I am in favor of Nuno. His teams show good movement and a great deal of intelligence with and without the ball. They struggled a bit this year without Jiminez but what team wouldn’t.
Second choice would be absolutely anyone but the ex who was already sleeping with someone before we parted company after 11 years. In saying that it was only allowed to happen because a teary eyed VIP who sits in the stands decided it was OK to do so.
This club of ours is due a massive change of luck with a manager. There’s no magic formula with us and we have tried it all in the past 6 years or so. So fingers crossed and give Nuno a go I say.
Kenwright out would be Moshiri’s biggest statement for me.
John Daley
430 Posted 03/06/2021 at 14:21:43
“…they must be allowed to bring in their own setup. Not have the old boys network imposed upon them because they used to play for Everton…. “

“It just seems odd. I'm struggling to think of a top club, in the modern game, that departs ways with the manager on several occasions yet retains one of the most important coaching positions”


It’s really not that unusual or automatically indicative of some malign corruptive influence. Off the top of my head there’s Freddy Ljunberg who was retained as assistant manager at Arsenal when Arteta took over, both Mike Phelan and Michael Carrick remaining as joint assistants to Solskjaer at United and Brian Kidd still kicking around at Man City after Guardiola moved in. That’s without taking into account the many other back room roles filled by blokes the new boss might not be bezzies, or even barely acquainted, with. It was reported at the time that Tuchel was taking 3 new members of coaching staff with him to Chelsea after Lampard left, so unless one of them was going all Jamie Madrox, Multiple Man on the motherfucker then there are many more roles being performed by people already in situ at the club than there are personally selected by him.

A vastly experienced ‘winner’ many lavished premature praise upon produces the sort of rank performances not seen since shouts for Preki to be brought on was the bloody highlight and the blame, once again, somehow lies with any ex-blues employed by the club in an auxiliary role?

How much influence do people believe Ferguson had on those performances because, to me (the Sheffield United game being a recent example that springs to mind), he looked the picture of frustration trying to get his point across to the ‘legendary’ Boss Nass looking bloke who blanked him and never bothered to lift a finger, instead preferring to stand there looking totally non-plussed.

This was a guy who installed both his son and his son-in-law….neither of whom have had a paid footballing gig not handed them by their Patriarch…. key positions at the club, but it’s the ‘jobs for the boys network’ of Unsworth and Jeffers who were taking the piss?

The Ancelotti family’s beloved Dandie Dinmont Terrier must have been devastated it wasn’t born with dick and balls because Dunc’s job would have done it down to the ground.

Being told to fetch a board, stop growling and not being let off the leash in public? That’s the life…and if your master leaves a huge pile of human sized shite on the way out they’re hardly going to point the finger at you for that, are they?

Rob Halligan
431 Posted 03/06/2021 at 14:21:49
FFS, nearly choked to death on me egg mayonnaise butty reading the first three lines of post # 415. Hilarious!!
Michael Lynch
432 Posted 03/06/2021 at 14:23:01
Whoever it is, I just hope it's Brands not Moshiri or Kenwright making the call. Otherwise, why have a DOF?

If Moshiri imposes another ageing Hollywood manager on us, no matter whether or not it's a good fit, Brands should walk. I'm sure he could get a job somewhere else at a club that would actually let him do his job.

John Kavanagh
433 Posted 03/06/2021 at 14:24:39
Forget all the non-stories about Everton's football manager. Do you people realise it's almost an hour since the last critical care unit bulletin on Trent Alexander Arnold? His life could be hanging by a thread for all we know. Even the Pope must be praying for his recovery by now.
John Raftery
434 Posted 03/06/2021 at 14:26:24
I don’t think Nuno is another Marco. Nuno completed four seasons with Wolves, three of them very successfully. Silva barely managed four months at his previous clubs. Most managers struggle after eighteen months. Usually they run out of ideas and players stop listening.
Jimmy Hogan
435 Posted 03/06/2021 at 14:27:18
Danny #425, I completely agree. We need a visionary and someone who has experience of taking ordinary teams and improving them immeasurably. We Evertonians might think we are one of the big boys, but no one else does and that hurts.
Phil Smith
436 Posted 03/06/2021 at 14:29:14
IF he brings Adama Traore with him, it's a yes for me, as long as he doesn't just sign Portuguese players. You know Gomes would be happy.
Danny O’Neill
437 Posted 03/06/2021 at 14:32:41
On a lighter note, Rob, don't ever choke and leave us. Not over an egg butty.

John Kavanagh; you've just reminded me of my first visit to the Vatican when my wife asked why the Pope puts a "towel" out of his window as we watched a Sunday service. And my then 6 year old son's suggestion she shouldn't be there because she was was Protestant. I'd obvious overdone the Catholic thing on him!! He actually got his pronunciation on that wrong and outraged his mother, but I won't repeat on here as it would be inappropriate.

We had a family discussion and corrections in the English language after that visit!!

Rob Halligan
438 Posted 03/06/2021 at 14:32:49
Paul # 376. You've got it wrong. Who said Kenwright was a failure? There's a big between a failure and an interferer / influencer. Kenwright is an interferer and a bad influence. He should leave all things like selecting, then appointing new managers to Brands, after all that is part of his job. Kenwright doesn't have the final say on who the new manager will be, but by God you can bet he's trying to influence Moshiri and Brands to bring his love child back!
Marc Hints
439 Posted 03/06/2021 at 14:34:47
Lots of stories saying none of the players have wished Ancelotti well and just unfollowed him on Twitter
John Kavanagh
440 Posted 03/06/2021 at 14:42:29
Marc @439 - Like they unfollowed Aguerro in our last match?
Roberto Cecere
441 Posted 03/06/2021 at 14:44:16
I don’t want a superstar manager I want a manager that fits and gives us an identity, for me it’s Moyes remember why he left. He said that we could not get in the top 4 unless we spent money, yes it did set a glass ceiling but he was right and yes it is going back but good god we need to go back because what I saw most of last season was shite
Marc Hints
442 Posted 03/06/2021 at 14:45:43
John @439 - haha I nearly choked on my cuppa then!
Tony Abrahams
443 Posted 03/06/2021 at 14:52:59
And anyone with a working brain cell surely wouldn’t have took Walcott for £150K a week either.

It’s very easy to understand why the players have stopped following Ancellotti, if the rumours are true that he told them all to have a good summer after they just got tonked five nil, because getting a new manager in might have just fucked up a relaxing summer for a few of the squad now

Jonathan Tasker
444 Posted 03/06/2021 at 14:58:15
431 you seem to be obsessed with monitoring my comments.
Some of you are rewriting history.
Allardyce was appointed to stop the club being relegated. The owners were that worried.
Everton finished 8th
In Carlo we trust finished 12th and 10th
That doesn’t mean I wanted allardyce to stay or that Walcott or the Turkish bloke were a success. They were both disasters
Marc Hints
445 Posted 03/06/2021 at 15:01:41
A man walks into a shoe shop with two left feet and says to the staff have you got any flip flips! Just thought I would keep everyone smiling :)
Luke Welch
446 Posted 03/06/2021 at 15:02:52
Do you think carlo knew he was leaving some time ago and that's why he let James off the hook so easily? Because both knew their Everton nightmare would soon be over.

I'm thinking James won't play for us again, actually, did he play for us- I mean in front of a crowd?

Thomas Richards
447 Posted 03/06/2021 at 15:03:39
Just read something on Ancelottis contract.
Clause inserted that no compensation could be claimed if certain named clubs came in for him.

If thats true he has played us.

Soren Moyer
448 Posted 03/06/2021 at 15:06:36
According to today's rumors Mosh wants Conte, Bill prefers Moyes and Brands is favouring Tan Hag or Sergio Conceição, so Nuno has been pushed down the list lol.
Robert Tressell
449 Posted 03/06/2021 at 15:10:17
Thomas if that is true then we appointed him with our eyes open. Just like it was when we handed daft contracts to crap players
Marc Hints
450 Posted 03/06/2021 at 15:14:48
Thomas @447

I read that too and apparently its the norm with a lot of top managers these days

Thomas Richards
451 Posted 03/06/2021 at 15:18:00
I would hope we had someone strong enough to refuse that clause Marc.
Apparently we havent.
Marc Hints
452 Posted 03/06/2021 at 15:21:58
No I don't think so either Thomas, maybe with Carlo it was lets just get him in and sign whatever contract he has
John Kavanagh
453 Posted 03/06/2021 at 15:22:56
Only Everton pay out big compensation - hell we even paid Watford for appointing Silva after they'd sacked him. We are the biggest mugs in football and have been ever since Blue Bill came on the scene.
Nick Page
454 Posted 03/06/2021 at 15:24:25
Isn’t Alan Irvine working with Moyes again? Didn’t we have our best seasons under that partnership?
Thomas Richards
455 Posted 03/06/2021 at 15:25:33
Thats how it looks Marc.
Not good mate.
A strong negotiatior would refuse that clause, even at the risk of losing the manager you were trying to sign.
Kevin Molloy
456 Posted 03/06/2021 at 15:28:48
Real Madrid were never paying up Carlo's contract, they would have moved on rather than do that.. let's just thank our lucky stars it isn't October, and we're not in the relegation zone having just handed Carlo his thirty large plus all the nomarks he brought with him.
Rob Halligan
457 Posted 03/06/2021 at 15:28:52
444, if you think I'm monitoring your posts then you must be monitoring mine if you notice them so much!

And no, Allardyce was not appointed to save us from relegation, he was appointed because Moshiri couldn't get who he wanted, Marco Silva, and lardy arse was the only one available. And no, we were never going to get relegated, despite what you think. Anyway Jonathan, what do you think of Bramley Moore dock, seeing as you were harping on for about three years that "There's going to be no new stadium" ?

Oooops, there I go again, I must have been monitoring your posts!! 😁😁😁

Marc Hints
458 Posted 03/06/2021 at 15:30:23
No its not Thomas I agree, it would be really interesting to see who is pulling the strings on certain areas in the boardroom, Maybe Bill is still to much involved and thats why we have the same decisions and outcomes that we always seem to have and the worst case scenario happening.

But the only person who can shape things up, stop being sentimental and bring in the right candidates to do a job is Moshiri

Robert Tressell
459 Posted 03/06/2021 at 15:30:41
Thomas - it is not a negotiation issue, it's an issue of bargaining power. Ancelotti didn't need or want us, we wanted him. We therefore accepted his (not unusual) terms. You can rightly question the wisdom of his appointment, but if you aren't at the top table already and want a guy like that then he's going to insist on a break clause if something better comes along.
Mat Smith
460 Posted 03/06/2021 at 15:35:17
"Carlo Ancelotti wants to sign Richarlison for Real Madrid...

It is reported Ancelotti is keen on raiding his former club for the Brazilian winger as he regards him as 'capable of playing for and shining at the Spanish giants'."

That's no surprise, was waiting to see when the rumour would pop up

Thomas Richards
461 Posted 03/06/2021 at 15:36:29
That is significant of the reasoning behind the "small club" claims regularly aimed at us Robert.
Robert Tressell
462 Posted 03/06/2021 at 15:44:13
It's why we should generally look for the next big thing who might actually want to be here (players and managers alike) - rather than bow to the demands of people who think we're lucky to have them.
Don Alexander
463 Posted 03/06/2021 at 15:45:28
Rumours reportedly suggest Conte, Moyes, Nuno, Ten Hag and Concaicao as front runners.

The first thing to establish is a proper working relationship with Brands. If Mosh signs Conte he's quickly gonna have to spend big, as per Conte's established way. That's seemingly not in keeping with Brands brief though, and Mosh seems to have not wanted to spend big for Carlo's choices. Signing a top-rank winner and then denying him the quality of player he needs to work with is just bonkers.

Nuno and his successor at Porto are not dependant on expensive signings to achieve success. Both seem to able to sign/develop good young players but only one of them has notable Premier League experience.

Ten Hag has been around a good while and speaks Dutch so he should be very compatible with Brands, and it wouldn't be the first time we've had to listen to double-dutch from the boardroom would it?

Moyes.......

"Nurse, more tablets please! NOW!"

Thomas Richards
464 Posted 03/06/2021 at 15:45:55
Agree with all of that Robert.
Kieran Kinsella
465 Posted 03/06/2021 at 15:46:08
Mat

I highly doubt that rumor. But if it’s true then it’s fine by me as long as we take them to the cleaners with the fee. Then again they’re broke

Jonathan Tasker
466 Posted 03/06/2021 at 15:49:04
457
The owners appointed allardyce because they thought the team was going to get relegated. I didn’t think Everton would get relegated but it seemed that the owners did
On BMD you know as well as I do that planning has been granted.
But it still needs to be financed.
Do I think this will happen ?
No I don’t.
At least not whilst Kenwright is still there.
Brian Hill
467 Posted 03/06/2021 at 15:49:40
How does anybody here know the details of Ancelotti's contract? Have you seen it?
Thomas Richards
468 Posted 03/06/2021 at 15:51:28
I instigated the conversation Brian by saying I had read an article.
Marc Hints
469 Posted 03/06/2021 at 15:52:19
There are a lot of reports coming out now we are now talking to Andrea Pirlo
Jay Wood
[BRZ]

470 Posted 03/06/2021 at 15:56:21
Marc @ 469.

I hope those rumours are to recruit him to play in our midfield!

Thomas Richards
471 Posted 03/06/2021 at 15:57:16
😂😂
Kevin Molloy
472 Posted 03/06/2021 at 15:57:24
so Moshiri buys Everton for what 60m, and spends another 400m on players.. And the plan now is to sink another 500m into the dock, and then, sell Everton for a billion pounds to make about a twenty million profit?

Good luck with that Farhad
(he must wake up crying)
Marc Hints
473 Posted 03/06/2021 at 15:57:44
Great player in his day Jay, probably would walk in our midfield now!
Thomas Richards
474 Posted 03/06/2021 at 15:58:55
Kevin,

Ive got a spare abacus if you want it mate

Kevin Molloy
475 Posted 03/06/2021 at 15:59:48
Thomas
I may be approximating slightly, but you get the gist
Ian Bennett
476 Posted 03/06/2021 at 16:01:55
Just read that we are going to get zero compensation, as Carlo had a clause in his contract he could leave for nothing to certain clubs.

Never committed.

Thomas Richards
477 Posted 03/06/2021 at 16:02:36
Only joking Kevin.

The maths don't add up.
Thats why two things will happen.

He's here for the long term.
Or stadium wont happen

Thomas Richards
478 Posted 03/06/2021 at 16:04:27
*one of two things
Kevin Molloy
479 Posted 03/06/2021 at 16:04:30
Thomas
I think both.
He aint gonna bump into anyone as gullible as he was in a blue moon
Geoff Williams
480 Posted 03/06/2021 at 16:08:40
I do find it strange that Ancelloti is getting a free pass from many Blues because it was Real Madrid who came in for him, "one of the biggest clubs in the world", despite the fact he had only completed a third of a four and a half year contract. Moyes, however, is seen as a traitor for leaving after 12 years loyal service and at the end of his contract. At the time Moyes departed United were possibly the biggest club in the world. Personally I want a manager who doesn't see Everton as a stop-gap but as a challenge and a privilege to coach. I want someone who actually buys into Brand's vision for Everton. He must be working within the English game and have a knowledge of the talent within the country. Bringing someone in from the continent won't work and we could be faced with the Ancelloti approach of buying aging, has-been players.
Tony Abrahams
481 Posted 03/06/2021 at 16:18:07
I think that’s the saddest concern with regards how much Everton have slowly sunk Thomas, because it’s obvious Ancellotti’s been allowed to play us.

I remember Barcelona, playing Liverpool, who ended up losing Steve McManaman to Real Madrid, on a Bosman, when they put the idea in his head, that they were prepared to sell him, and rather than searching for the stars, I’d rather see Everton concentrate on becoming a much more ruthlessly professional football club, whoever gets the managers job next.


Thomas Richards
482 Posted 03/06/2021 at 16:20:40
Me to Tony, me to mate
Richard Nelson
483 Posted 03/06/2021 at 16:21:03
...Geoff @ 480...spot on, Moyes is a pariah for "jumping ship" & bettering himself...but it goes without saying, that Ancelotti could not turn down a "golden opportunity"...?
Mark Murphy
484 Posted 03/06/2021 at 16:21:59
The more I think of it and the more names that get bandied about I'm beginning to lean heavily to giving the whole running of the team to Big Dunc. At least we know he gives a shit, won't suffer lazy performances from the players and won't screw us over.
Tired of mercenary couldn't care less chancers coming here for the money and an easy ride - including the players. I'd rather be mid table with a team of Tom Davies's than 8th with a team of past their best millionaires.
Utft!
Andrew Bentley
485 Posted 03/06/2021 at 16:27:17
Matt @460 - interesting rumour and tbh, they can have him at the right price. I don't think he'll ever be as good as everyone thinks he can be as he doesn't have the right mental attitude and tbf, stinks out the place most games. Give us a team of players that actually gel together, and want to fight for each other and we'd be miles better off than where we are today. We look like a jigsaw puzzle with lots of exciting pieces that don't fit together.

Oh, and to add fuel to Richi going this summer, he was seen in the Bluebird restaurant in Chelsea a couple of days ago. No doubt with his agent sorting out his summer move.

Tony Abrahams
486 Posted 03/06/2021 at 16:34:34
Didn’t Moyes leave to a thunderous lap of honour, with people actually clapping and singing his name?

I don’t know for sure, because I’d given up on him and Kenwright being in bed together, but I’m sure it was his actions once he’d left Everton, that turned most people against him?

It’s all water under the bridge now anyway, because even if I could see the wisdom in Martinez embracing our past, I hope the next manager is only interested in the future

Loko Sanchez
487 Posted 03/06/2021 at 16:42:32
This is depressing. From a legend manager to this lot as candidates, sigh. How low can we go? Depressing indeed.
Rob Halligan
488 Posted 03/06/2021 at 16:42:34
Andrew # 485. What did Richarlison do, fly back from Brazil just to go to a restaurant?
Anthony Murphy
489 Posted 03/06/2021 at 16:44:21
Quite rightly, fans are advocating that whoever comes in must fit into Brands’ model and vision and that Brands must pick our new manager.

Should we not consider whether or not Brands is part of the solution or part of the problem? Are we sure about Brands? I get he wants to develop younger talent but what DoF doesn’t. Genuinely, what difference has Brands made? Hate dragging Moyes into this, but his capacity in the transfer market compared to this Guy is chalk and cheese. Are we missing what’s right under our nose here, that the infrastructure needs an overhaul and the very person who we see as being critical to our success has been part of the mess all along.

Just playing devils advocate here, but it’s a fair point and worthy of our thoughts.

Rob Halligan
490 Posted 03/06/2021 at 16:45:55
Anyway, just been reliably informed via a telephone conversation, that Ancelotti basically walked out on the club. Was told loads of other things, quite disturbing in fact, and I'm debating as to whether I should start a new thread on it?
Marc Hints
491 Posted 03/06/2021 at 16:47:34
Go for it Rob
Tony Everan
492 Posted 03/06/2021 at 16:48:06
No debate, Go for it Rob !
Kieran Kinsella
493 Posted 03/06/2021 at 16:48:09
Rob

You can't say "quite disturbing in fact," and leave us hanging mate

Keith Slinger
494 Posted 03/06/2021 at 16:49:01
I would like Big Dunc to be given his chance to be honest, as least he will get them to be passionate and maybe add a bit of bite into their play?
Dale Self
495 Posted 03/06/2021 at 16:52:20
Thomas and Robert, I think this gets to the intersection of it all. Carlo may have been a front piece for some attempt to make Everton look competitive without investing the funds right now. As a Happy Clapper I guess I have to deal with the possibility of my hippy love-in with Carlo leaving me with nothing but a bouquet of dead flowers and a worry that we're a club that lies prone for coach poaching.

I will also note that I don't remember this being a critique of Carlo. It was more "he's past it" or he doesn't have galacticos to bail him out so failure is eminent. If he returns Real Madrid to the top in Spain while Barca are in spasms and Atleti sell a couple then the "past it" critique is strained. Florentino obviously needs a fix and Carlo wanted an out and we really don't know how and when that all played out. That definitely makes the magician presser even more interesting than a dress down of the players.

The bottom line from Robert gets to it. We have to consider a coach whose incentives are lined up with us. Think of what Silva said even though he did not have the skills, "I need stability and Everton needs stability". If we get someone who can get us into competition for a CL place and they are always willing to get out of the NW then we don't need that. Not sure where this gets us in the present search since there is a myriad of reasons why we can't just take our time here.

Gary Willock
496 Posted 03/06/2021 at 16:53:19
Moyes wasn’t disliked for going to United. He became a ‘pariah’ when he took the piss out of us saying we should let Baines and Fellaini leave for lower prices for the sake of their career.

Whether he was coerced by United into rocking the boat or not, that was the moment he lost me and most other blues.

I actually agree however, that in comparison to the damage that Ancelotti has just done by walking out on us like he did (and before that in what has clearly been a highly paid Davide apprenticeship) that Moyes betrayal was MINOR in comparison. I can even forgive Rafa and the small club barb too, after this crap.

I don’t want either as next manager, but I would accept them. As with most on here, I want the coach with the vision of doing a Dortmund, Lille, RB Leipzig, etc. and finding the best up and coming talent about, and giving them the platform to show it.

Michael Lynch
497 Posted 03/06/2021 at 16:54:02
Rob, if it's that thing about Carlo's dog and big Dunc's pigeons, it's not true. Although it might explain why he legged it as quick as he did.
Rob Halligan
498 Posted 03/06/2021 at 17:01:04
Kieran, the reason I'm reluctant to start a new thread on it is for fear of the club getting sight of it. As a post on here, it will quickly get lost and forgotten about. It could be quite a long post though.
Jay Wood
[BRZ]

499 Posted 03/06/2021 at 17:04:01
Geoff @ 480.

I honestly don't see anyone giving Carlo 'a free pass' leaving us 'cos it's Real Madrid.'

I do see a good number stating a truism. RM is a mega club, like it or not, and when they come calling it's very hard for a manager or players alike to knock them back.

What disappoints me is that for all his fine words in his time at Everton, his condemnation of the Dirty Dozen led by his new employer, the still unrepentant RM Presient Florentino Perez, and how in his autobiography Carlo describes himself as a football traditionalist, a man of loyalty, honesty and integrity, he has displayed none of that in his decision to jump ship as he has.

I have already speculated how much the house break-in in February and the drawn out terminal illness of his first wife, the mother of his two children, impacted and influenced his decision over and beyond football related matters.

But he doesn't get a 'free pass' from me as his unexpected departed seriously undermines our summer planning in a year already impacted on by the pandemic in which the Euros, Copa America and the Olympics are all taking place.

I'll add my voice to those asking Rob Halligan to expand on what he has heard about Carlo's departure.

Bill Rodgers
500 Posted 03/06/2021 at 17:04:58
Please let it be Big Dunc. The sooner we get the delusions out of the system the better. If we do it now - we may have a chance to avoid the drop when he's gone by Xmas. Plus - we can no longer tolerate Finch Farm teaching players to be uncommitted, lazy, disinterested and injury-prone. Maybe Dunc n Moyesey - the dream team for hallucinating Blues? The sooner the better.
Philip Bunting
501 Posted 03/06/2021 at 17:08:58
Big Dunc for me, as for sure, what that dressing room needs and has needed it for quite a while is a shake up. Dunc will not suffer fools as he is truly passonite and will demand 100% every day, every match. Those that don't want to commit to that or lack committment to be winners will be binned over time. It may be a slow process to get to where we want to be but by hook or crook we must stick to it and allow brands to assist in getting the players in to help Dunc. I am nnot at all interested in Journeymen managers any longer, Nuno, just walked out on Wolves? What committment is that when the club invested time and money in him. Do we want that again here at Goodison when he just decides to quit. No thanks.
Barry Hesketh
502 Posted 03/06/2021 at 17:10:04
Rob In regard to your recently found information, why not submit it to the Editors, they can then decide whether it is worthy or they may have contacts in the media who could 'investigate' whatever it is that you've been told in order to check its veracity.


Tom Harvey
503 Posted 03/06/2021 at 17:10:55
If it is true Moshiri is only looking at Nuno and Moyes, then the message is simple one coming out of EFC:

"We've joined Burnley, Palace, Newcastle and the rest, it's now all about coming 17th and above, anything else is a bonus, we're in the prem, do we actually need to win things?"

I can stomach Nuno if he has a good go, but I think he's basically another Carlo type tactics wise. Moyes? God, what a dull appointment by a tired board out of its depth.

Alan Corken
504 Posted 03/06/2021 at 17:13:25
Rob @498 c'mon spill the beans. If you don't want to identify the main protagonists then use pseudonyms eg The Godfather, Big Drunk, Kenwood Chef, Hairymoosh. Nobody will be any the wiser...
Mike Gaynes
505 Posted 03/06/2021 at 17:17:13
Rob, better yet, just email your information to me. I'll keep it confidential. I promise.
Barry Hesketh
506 Posted 03/06/2021 at 17:17:38
Tom @503
I think that Moshiri will try for another 'name' rather than those who have been linked - I also think it will be at least a week before an announcement is made, Moyes being linked has muddied the waters slightly as he dithers over signing his extension at West Ham and he will be pushing for Bill and company to give him an answer ASAP, if he's actually been approached, as I read that Everton would want to seek permission from West Ham before they did talk to him.
Brian Harrison
507 Posted 03/06/2021 at 17:18:46
Jay 499

Its being widely reported here that Ancelotti's people contacted Real to let them know that Ancelotti wanted out of Everton and because of a clause in his contract they wouldn't have to pay compensation. Now I could accept him accepting an offer from one of the biggest clubs in the world, but it seems he instigated the whole thing. I thought he was an honourable man, but with it seeming he engineered the move, then to add insult to injury in his first press conference at Madrid he said he was now at a club who wanted to win the Champions league. Whereas according to him Everton werent capable of winning the league and we apparently were happy going into the last few matches with a chance of qualifying for Europe.

Tony Abrahams
508 Posted 03/06/2021 at 17:22:31
I’m not asking you to make a thread Rob, but something doesn’t seem right about Ancellotti just leaving, even if it was to Real Madrid, and I’ve felt for to long now, that something doesn’t seem quite right behind the scenes? (He did supposedly have a contract clause though)

You never get the sense that anyone but Moshiri, picks the manager, and the club have seemed to change track with regards the transfer policy more than once, so what is Marcel Brands, real mantra?

Don’t get me started on anything else, but something doesn’t feel right, but maybe it’s just the length of time away from attending the match, that makes me feel uneasy about something, that I can’t quite put my finger on.

Matt Hunter
509 Posted 03/06/2021 at 17:22:46
Quick question for all the people calling for Moyes. If he had never managed us would anyone want a guy who had a relegation on his c.v had been sacked from 3 jobs and never won anything. Seriously, get a grip, the guy is an absolute total loser who snatches defeat from the jaws of victory whenever he has the chance, because he has no bottle.

He cost us the semi final against Liverpool at a time when Liverpool would have lost to a championship team and had a third choice goalkeeper playing. Oh and who can forgot going 2-0 up at Goodison against a rocking Liverpool managed by Roy Hodgson, Moyes went defensive, he will always be a glass half empty guy.

I'll always remember Wigan hitting the post twice and literally ripping up apart in the fa cup while he stood there completely clueless as to what was going on around him.
Oh and as for those who think he would do better with better players he had exactly the same mindset when he was at Manure, The embarrassing Man.Utd performances in Europe under him was what really got him the sack there as he was shown up for being totally clueless.
I don't understand how anyone who knows anything about him would want him to return.

John Kavanagh
510 Posted 03/06/2021 at 17:25:34
Rob H @498. Either a lengthy post or a new thread will do fine by me. All dirty washing gratefully accepted at the TW laundromat. We won't squeal on you to Blue Bill. Honest.

As for Richarlison going, he will force a move citing wanting ECL football as the reason. I'd be fine with that for the right fee. But on one condition. He cannot sign for any of the ESL 12. Time for us to start fighting back, even if it's only plucky little Everton.

Alan Johnson
511 Posted 03/06/2021 at 17:31:00
C'mon Rob. Think we all wanna know 😉
Brian Harrison
512 Posted 03/06/2021 at 17:31:24
I was listening to the radio this morning and they were stating some stats about Conte saying he went to Juventus who were 8th and won the league with them, similar at Chelsea, then did the same at Inter. No wonder Spurs are chasing him. Mind we might still have a job on our hands to persuade Nuno to turn his back on the mighty Crystal Palace, if that's who Moshiri wants. I think I am at the point of past caring who we get, supporting this club just gets harder and harder. Unlike my Sons and Grandson who are season ticket holders like me, I have seen us win the league a few times as well as the cup. How we manage to attract young fans to follow this club is unbelievable, they have had nothing to cheer for decades, which looks like carrying on for many more years to come.
Brian Williams
513 Posted 03/06/2021 at 17:39:04
Rob#498.
Rob if it's disturbing then maybe the club seeing it "out there" might elicit some change.
Things kept under wraps are easy to ignore by those that choose to keep them under wraps!
Tony Abrahams
514 Posted 03/06/2021 at 17:40:21
Matt509, I’m glad you brought our last home victory up against Liverpool mate, because I left Goodison fuming, on a day that Liverpool were there to be systematically destroyed mate!

I think I’d stop going if Moyes came back, but maybe the people who want Moyes, just want Everton to find a bit of stability, because it’s something that has been sadly lacking for a very long time now?

Will Mabon
515 Posted 03/06/2021 at 17:42:52
Jay:

"I have already speculated how much the house break-in in February and the drawn out terminal illness of his first wife, the mother of his two children, impacted and influenced his decision over and beyond football related matters."

OK - so the trauma left him unable to continue with thoughts of football.


"I do see a good number stating a truism. RM is a mega club, like it or not, and when they come calling it's very hard for a manager or players alike to knock them back."

Wow, what a club that is! Can heal and sweep away all the trauma and quickly refocus one's mind on football. With the added benefit of expunging any bitter memories of a relatively recent sacking, too. And all for half the salary, with "No money" to invest in players.


This has all been engineered, in various proportions by the various actors in the process, to obtain what they all want - as it always is of course. I'll leave people to guess what Ancelotti wanted out of the deal.

Matt Hunter
516 Posted 03/06/2021 at 17:44:10
Tony514, I was also there that day. They should have been beaten 5 or 6
Thomas Richards
517 Posted 03/06/2021 at 17:47:27
If, if, this move from Ancelotti is down to yet more bollocks from the chairman the club is beyond redemption.
Fuck them Rob, if youve got it get it out there.
Conor McCourt
518 Posted 03/06/2021 at 17:48:39
Fucking hell Rob this is like the final episode of Line of Duty..spill the beans. Jed Mercurio has got nothing on you in terms of suspense.
Brian Williams
519 Posted 03/06/2021 at 17:52:50
Who the fuck is "H" ???????????????????????????
Thomas Richards
520 Posted 03/06/2021 at 17:54:00
BK
Mike Doyle
521 Posted 03/06/2021 at 17:56:18
Conor # 518 ] Are you thinking that Carlo might be ‘H’? - thought he was about to be exposed and engineered a rapid extraction from Finch Farm?
It could be possible as RM’s president was a key player in the planned breakaway by the slimy 12 ( who behaved very like an OCG ).

Sounds like Rob H has a CHIS working inside the club who could provide the answer. Mother of God!

Rob Halligan
522 Posted 03/06/2021 at 17:57:13
Ok, here's what I've been told. Make of it what you will...

Once Ancelotti got wind of the Real Madrid vacancy, he set his heart on a return to them. He had also become very disillusioned with what was happening at Everton. He had basically "as good as given up on the job" It all came to the boil following the man city game, when he just walked straight out of the Etihad, not going back to Liverpool on the team bus. From that day onwards he had not been seen or heard from, by anyone within the club. Ancelotti had his agent make contact with Real Madrid last week, and it was as good as sorted then. It was only announced on Tuesday, 1st June, when most contracts start / begin. So I assume by that, that was when Zidane's contract ended.

During the few days following the man city game, Brands, who apparently did not get on at all with Ancelotti, called a team meeting with the first team and U23's. He absolutely tore into them, slamming the players for their lack of effort and their attitude throughout the season, and they should all be thoroughly ashamed to wear the blue shirt of Everton. In particular, Iwobi, who Brands called "A total waste of Fucking space" and Bernard, who will "never play for the club again" according to Brands. He also slammed Richarlison, Mina and Holgate for their attitude in games, and apparently there have been at least on three occasions when Richarlison and Holgate have had to be separated after clashing after a game.

As I said, Brands and Ancelotti did not appear to get along at all. As we all know, Brands wants to sign younger players, Ancelotti older more experienced players. Josh king was definitely a Brands signing, who Ancelotti didn't want, hence the reason why he hardly got a look in.

So it seems a total clear out is required. Brands needs to, and MUST, be the only person involved in appointing a new manager.

P.S I was halfway through typing this when I had to go out, otherwise it would have been posted earlier, so apologies for leaving you all in suspense!!

Chris Leyland
523 Posted 03/06/2021 at 17:57:58
Come on Rob, you can’t leave us hanging like this
Dale Self
524 Posted 03/06/2021 at 18:01:14
Thanks for that Rob. Brands dishes sword, I like that guy!
Conor McCourt
525 Posted 03/06/2021 at 18:02:36
Cheers Rob, great stuff...worth the wait.
Eddie Dunn
526 Posted 03/06/2021 at 18:02:36
Come on Rob -who is H ?
Barry Hesketh
527 Posted 03/06/2021 at 18:02:40
None of the following actually happened and it's just a bit of fun.
Bill's hidey-hole in the depths of Goodison.

Bill is staring at his signed photo of David Moyes, which he recently got at the London Stadium, following Everton's narrow victory there. His cell phone vibrates on his desk. He answers it.

Bill - Where the hell are you?
David - I'm still in bloody London, I don’t want to hear excuses, are you bringing me back or not?

Bill - It's not that easy, that Iranian bloke watches me like a hawk, and Carlo's family are everywhere.

David - Well, I Cannae wait forever man, the porno kings aren't known for their patience y'know.

Bill - I'm trying my best. breaks off as the door opens violently, Bill tries to hide his phone and throws his autographed picture under his seat.

Carlo lurches over the shaken impresario and in a quiet but forceful tone asks Bill "is this what it's come to, I give you all those away wins at grounds you could only dream about winning at and you still want me replaced by the Dour Ginger one"?

Bill - "Carlo, Maaaaate it's not like that, I was trying to see if I could get Davey, erhum Mr Moyes to sell us a good winger for a decent price" "I know how much you've wanted the board to be proactive and I was only trying to help"

Carlo - "Do you think I am stupid, I have met your type before, I'm ringing the president of Madrid to tell him I'm available.

Bill - No Carlo! Please! Don't tell Mosh, he'll make me clean his yacht again!

Carlo - "Too late!" "Your fate is sealed"

Carlo slams the door shut behind him as the disembodied voice can be heard from Bill's phone "Bill, are ye Okay, Bill what's happening?

Brian Williams
528 Posted 03/06/2021 at 18:04:32
Rob#522.
Thanks for that Rob. Don't know what to make of it and I'm not doubting the fact that that's what you've been told but Brands giving the squad/s both barrels and singling out individual players?
I just can't see any professional doing that to be honest. I'd like to think it's true because it's nothing more than most of them deserve but I just can't believe that.
Again mate I want to stress that not having a go at you in anyway as you've just passed on what you've been told.
Tony Everan
529 Posted 03/06/2021 at 18:05:39
Rob, thanks for posting, jeeez it’s a damned good job that Ancelotti’s gone. Imagine the damage this would cause into next season .

Brands definitely has to be central and to have the final say on the new manager or the same will happen again. I hope they’ve learned from their mistakes. It’s essential that the DOF and manager are on the same page with a unity of recruitment strategy. What an absolute mess.

If it’s truth at Brands tore into the players , good on him , about time someone stood up and said it.

Thomas Richards
530 Posted 03/06/2021 at 18:05:41
I agree 100% on the manager being one that Brands can work with and therefore Brands should be doing the interviewing.
No point in getting a manager whose philosophy is totally alien to the DOF.
If Brands wants to work with potential then bring in a manager with same mindset.

As for him telling them off, I fuckin hope he has.
Shitbags went through the motions on many occasions last season.

Martin Mason
531 Posted 03/06/2021 at 18:08:19
Please don't let Nuno near our club, Potter far more attractive a prospect.
Richard Farrington
532 Posted 03/06/2021 at 18:08:56
Rob, great post. Can I ask your source reliability in % terms?
Conor McCourt
533 Posted 03/06/2021 at 18:09:06
Fuck me can I change my vote to Brands for our next manager
Jack Convery
534 Posted 03/06/2021 at 18:09:25
All sounds very feasible to me - Ta Rob. If Brands did tear into them its about bloody time someone did. Top 4 /6 was there for the taking and they could not be arsed when push came to shove. They wear the shirt with no pride at all - professional footballers do not lay down and die as they did at City and in what I still consider the worst moment in EFCs history the defeat to the RS kids.

This lot ie the squad have seen off too many managers now. Too many egos. As for senior management I believe its fairly obvious Moshiri and BK want different things. In my opinion we are still a "museum", though the exhibits are beginning to rust they are that old. Too many ex pros leeching off the club and seeing Mr Blubberer as an easy touch. "Hi Bill gizz a job".

I see Morecambe are now looking for a manager may I suggest Ferguson applies and takes Unsworth as his No2. Lets see what they can do in the real world. If they are a success, EFC will no doubt give them an opportunity sometime down the road.

We need a total overhaul. As a business and as a Football Club we are a basket case. To get Carlo Ancellotti and blow it - F*ck Me.

PS: Remember what Morgan said when he left for France - Its good to be at a well run club !!!

Mark Hulme
535 Posted 03/06/2021 at 18:09:47
Thanks for posting Rob.
Rob Halligan
536 Posted 03/06/2021 at 18:11:30
Richard # 532. I would say definitely 95%. He also told me a good hour before it was officially announced that the home league game against man city was off due to the covid cases within the man city squad. I can't say anymore about my source though.
Kunal Desai
537 Posted 03/06/2021 at 18:11:34
Rob, I think you should publish it, the more Evertonians are aware the better.

Is it along the same lines where there are too many fingers in the pie. Certain board members over ruling other peoples roles? Something I heard a while back but wasn't concrete.

Grant Rorrison
538 Posted 03/06/2021 at 18:12:38
522 Rob. Weren't most of the names you mentioned signed by Brands? :O
Richard Farrington
539 Posted 03/06/2021 at 18:16:14
Cheers Rob, top man for posting. Much appreciated and all makes sense to me.

I particularly hope the Iwobi part is true. He is a DISGRACE.

Joe McMahon
540 Posted 03/06/2021 at 18:17:11
Rob, thanks for updating us. It sounds like Brands is the one who needs to be choosing the manager. If your source is correct he has absolutely gone up in my estimation!
Paul A Smith
541 Posted 03/06/2021 at 18:18:15
Stories will fly, assumptions will be made but in my opinion, Brands needs to go too. The Director of football role isn't suited to this club and scouts can still scout players based on a managers wishes.

He brought Iwobi in to improve Silva's squad after we just lost Zouma and Gueye. Gbamin he was unlucky with but he was a poor target for replacing Gueye.

Silva's season ended great that year and even Walcott was looking a threat but the following window was a Brands mess.

Martin Mason
542 Posted 03/06/2021 at 18:18:28
Rob, very good and very interesting. If I had to guess what could possibly make that bunch of players so bad you're explanation fits perfectly. As Brands understands football and the problems we have then perhaps he should replace BK? At least this shows that Carlo had integrity, he did the honourable thing.
Barry Robson
543 Posted 03/06/2021 at 18:19:07
Not doubting Robs post but just wondering how Ancelotti got home from citys ground if not on the team coach?
Also if Brands only wants to sign young players but King was a Brands signing?
Then King being 29 seems to contradict this.
However I do accept King was only brought in as a stop gap.
Will Mabon
544 Posted 03/06/2021 at 18:20:01
Interesting, Rob.

So Brands berates Iwobi, as one of his signings. Plus another, King, is not exactly a young up & coming player of the profile he apparently favours. Call me old fashioned but I'm not sold on the whole DOF concept anyway.

If this is all or mostly true, I think Carlo needs to release a corrective addendum to his biography, regarding his character.

As a long-termer in the "Something in the fabric" camp, the other dramas wouldn't surprise me at all.

Who needs Emmerdale Farm when there's Finch Farm.

Robert Tressell
545 Posted 03/06/2021 at 18:20:48
Fascinating stuff, Rob and very believable. If true, it seems to highlight the big problem since Brands has been here. Competing agendas. Brands need to structure the club and deliver the players to a manager. This is why the likes of Ten Hag, Santo and Potter are a good fit. This is how they operate already. Otherwise we end up with a squad full of players designed for different systems.
Paul A Smith
546 Posted 03/06/2021 at 18:22:55
Totally agree Will and the Dutch Simon Cowell stealing the moment when Kean signed to give his Ma a shirt at the presser topped all the times Kenwright has made me cringe.

The club has gone backward since Moshiri came ( or the team I should say) and theres no other way to desrcibe it.

John Kavanagh
547 Posted 03/06/2021 at 18:23:03
Well Rob, if all that is true, then Brands goes up in my estimation. Someone had to rip into the first team it's a pity it was 10 matches too late. I fully buy into Carlo and Brands not getting on and Brands only wanting younger players like Godfrey. Any word on what role Dunc had in any or all of this? Seemed to me like he was being ignored/sidelined.

Is Blue Bill selling tickets for the next Richy Holgate fight? It would certainly be more entertaining than the football being served up.

For me, Carlo was simply the Italian Walter Smith.

Martin Mason
548 Posted 03/06/2021 at 18:23:48
Barry#@543, another taxi job maybe?
Barry Hesketh
549 Posted 03/06/2021 at 18:24:37
If Brands did let fly, I'd have preferred him to have let fly at his fellow board members. I can't see how it's useful to the club for the DOF to be barking at the players, that's the manager's job isn't it - mind you at Goodison the job title doesn't appear to matter, it's probably the tea-lady who picks the team.
Alan Johnson
550 Posted 03/06/2021 at 18:25:24
Well done for posting this Rob. You're a star, Hope you don't lose your source.
Rob Halligan
551 Posted 03/06/2021 at 18:26:37
Barry, who's to say Ancelotti arrived at the Etihad on the team bus? Sounds like it was a planned quick departure, so he could have had someone outside pick him up?
Ian Edwards
552 Posted 03/06/2021 at 18:26:48
Josh King isn't a young Brands signing as he is 29.
John McFarlane Snr
553 Posted 03/06/2021 at 18:30:18
Hi Rob [522] the sad part in all of this, is that if it was a player behaving in a similar way, [walking out on the team and neglecting to have any contact with the club,] he would have been hung, drawn and quartered. As I have made known in previous posts I believe in giving a new manager or player time to settle in, more so the manager because he needs time to assess all the players and to decide who he wishes to retain or dispose of. I had hoped that Ancelotti would have been given a minimum of three seasons to assemble a team, that would compete for the top prizes in the game, but in the current circumstances my feeling is one of 'Good Riddance'. One thing that I can promise, is that whoever his replacement may be, will get my full support.
Tony Everan
554 Posted 03/06/2021 at 18:30:24
It also cranks up the likelihood of Richarlison moving on, sounds like an ongoing feud. Not good for the team. Any insights as to what their argument was about, sounds like a bitter one.
Eddie Dunn
555 Posted 03/06/2021 at 18:31:46
Rob -facinating and it certainly would explain why King was hardly used.
It has been clear from Carlo's body language that something wasn't right.
I presume Brands had also told him of the budget for the summer. Carlo was clearly giving us all a signal picking 2 goalies on the bench.
I recall that towrds the end of Moyes' tenure, he was stalling on a new contract(not just in case Whisky nose gave him the call ) but to apply pressure on our tight fisted board.
It's all a manager can do to publicly display how crap his squad is.
Unfortunately the only players other clubs would be interested in are our better ones and now Carlo has clearly identified that half our squad is rubbish.
The value must have dropped alarmingly.
Daniel A Johnson
556 Posted 03/06/2021 at 18:32:48
From what I've seen in interviews etc Brands seems a polite, mild mannered, quiet kind of guy and very measured.

I don't believe for one minute he tore into the first team squad in that fashion using that kind of language.

"(In particular, Iwobi, who Brands called "A total waste of Fucking space")"

That's a player he signed lol. If you said Big Dunc did then fair enough but Brands I aint buying it sorry no way.

Rob Halligan
557 Posted 03/06/2021 at 18:33:17
I think Josh king was "bought" as a stop gap, cover or whatever. He was only ever going to be used in exceptional circumstances, such as DCL or Richarlison being injured and out for the season. Wasn't there a game where DCL was out injured, but recovered in time for the next game? He was after all, only given a six month contract, and the club paid £2M for him, which is something like the usual loan fee.
Paul A Smith
558 Posted 03/06/2021 at 18:33:36
We've always loved a good off field yarn haven't we. The bingo tales come out as soon as we are in a mess.

Remember Baines battered Eto and Anichebe was sent home by Moyes for wearing red boots in training. All from great Sources.

Daniel 556 me neither mate it makes no sense for a director of football to alienate players. He'd be worried he might sweat in the heat of a rant.

Alan Corken
559 Posted 03/06/2021 at 18:35:17
Jesus, Mary, Joseph and the wee Donkey!
Dale Self
560 Posted 03/06/2021 at 18:35:38
Yeah but what does that have to do with this episode Paul?
Nick Page
561 Posted 03/06/2021 at 18:37:13
Great post by Rob @522.
Have a read of this - exactly the sort of stuff Everton should have been doing for years even with no money. But you’ll never get that past The Great Saviour.

https://mobile.twitter.com/joepompliano/status/1400245761854652417?s=24

Paul A Smith
562 Posted 03/06/2021 at 18:37:54
Err the fact its another tale or two Dale and not one person can confirm it for you.

If Brands is that involved it is almost impossible for us to keep a manager because who likes their toes stepped on?

Darren Hind
563 Posted 03/06/2021 at 18:37:56
Interesting stuff Rob

As you know rumors run wild in this city and you have to take most of them with a pinch of salt, but a lot of what you say kinda makes some of the pieces fit.

I think some of it is a bit of embroidery - I don't think he would single out Iwobi and call him a waste of space, even if it is true, but I'm buying most of that.

Colette 405

Well you've certainly narrowed the field down girl. Great post

Barry Rathbone
564 Posted 03/06/2021 at 18:40:18
Rob Halligan

If half of that is right Brands stock has risen 100% and Ancelotti nailed as a spineless con man in my view. Perhaps Brands can be the guiding hand the club needs at board level certainly it feels like the first glimpse of light in this farago.

Roger Helm
565 Posted 03/06/2021 at 18:41:54
I hope what is said about Brands is true and that he has a big role in choosing and working with the new manager. I also hope it is true about not seeing Bernard, Iwobi and Holgate again.

The EPL being so physical is no country for old men and we definitely need more young, strong, athletic players, with of course a sprinkling of old heads and a player or two who can actually pass the ball. Also coaches and trainers who can condition, motivate and organise them into a proper team.

I think the terrible end to the season can only be explained by internal club problems causing a collapse of morale, so let us hope a new broom will get of the bad eggs, to mix metaphors.

The moneyball approach is to sign good promising players aged 22 or younger and sell them at a profit five years later. Doses anyone know Nuno's attitude to youth?

Gavin Johnson
566 Posted 03/06/2021 at 18:42:07
Thanks for the post Rob. I think this is confirmation that Brands should be in charge of recruiting the next manager and Moshiri should be letting him have full control.

I did think Carlo and Brands got on at least socially because of the public endorsement Carlo gave him when Brands contract was coming up. However the players they both wanted seemed more at odds and contentious.

I read somewhere that Iwobi was actually a Moshiri signing from being a fan from his Arsenal board member days. I did put the blame on Brands but if he tore into him like that, and rightly so, maybe he was a Moshiri indulgence signing

Brian Williams
567 Posted 03/06/2021 at 18:42:09
Apologies in advance for this but there's a hastily arranged candlelit vigil for TAA tonight as he's been ruled out of the Euro's through injury.
The procession route goes from Mechano Land down onto Scotty Road and into town.
If someone can gimme a hand we can move the signs and reroute it so they all walk right into the Mersey!
Jason Li
568 Posted 03/06/2021 at 18:43:22
Nice post Rob.

The funny thing is, Real Madrid will be a tougher job as they are a complete mess of a squad. Carlo had it cushty here, no pressure as he had 59 points in the bag and I reckon by adding 3 good players could have got us in the mix next season for 5th or even 4th with a few more points. I think he's a top coach, but will struggle to get going at Real. There's no young Ronaldo or Gareth Bale there anymore.

For our new manager interviews, the board should ask:"What do you think of Simms, Gordon, Branthwaite and Nkounkou?" If they don't know the squad well then pass. We can't wait until the last day of pre-season or late in the transfer window before the new manager decides on who he needs for next season.

Dale Self
569 Posted 03/06/2021 at 18:43:37
Paul, that sounded more like Brands coming in to assume temporary control and get things back in line. I get that we need to be careful with belief but we don't have reason to just dismiss it as another yarn.

And agreed Jason, that does indicate the mutual need for this arrangement. Florentino's is obvious and we're presently speculating on Carlo's motivation and timing. All we know is that it was preferable to Everton at the prices quoted.

Barry Robson
570 Posted 03/06/2021 at 18:43:42
Rob I take your point about not arriving at city via the team coach. If so then the fact CA didnt leave by the team coach isn't really an issue.
I think most of what you posted is true and if so I fear for the new manager whoever he is.


Jack Convery
571 Posted 03/06/2021 at 18:47:23
Carlo's next book should be titled

'One flew out of the Cuckoos Nest'.

PS: Have we signed a new manager yet ?

Kieran Kinsella
572 Posted 03/06/2021 at 18:47:42
Some newspapers also reported a fight between Holgate and Rich after the city game. I recall reports of a similar come to Jesus meeting when Silva was here after one game. I also recall Moshiri having more of a heart to heart with the team after Silva was sacked. You would think (given it's mostly the same set of players) that if they had any sense or professionalism or pride they would have responded to the good cop bad cop routine by now. So much for Brands prior comments about getting the "right personalities" sounds like we've a bunch of egotists and whingers.
Thomas Richards
573 Posted 03/06/2021 at 18:49:16
Argument with an opposite point of view.
"Liverpool is a city of rumours. Dont believe eveything you hear in the laundrette"

Argument that suits the agenda.
"There may be something in that Rob"

😁😁

John Kavanagh
574 Posted 03/06/2021 at 18:49:47
Brian @567, Awful dreadful news. Will there also be a Festival of Remembrance at the tomb of the Blessed Virgil? Why hasn't the BBC cancelled all programming yet?

What will Southgate do without a 4th right back?

Daniel A Johnson
575 Posted 03/06/2021 at 18:49:59
I do think the 5-0 humiliation at City made Ancelotti realise that his so called brand/image was being tarnished badly staying at EFC.

When he got the opportunity he and his son and his backroom cronies fucking legged it.

I bet he left Duncan a note and a crate of Irn Bru.

Gavin Johnson
576 Posted 03/06/2021 at 18:53:54
To me, Carlo looked done after the Sheffield Utd home embarrassment. I saw a post match interview and he looked absolutely shell shocked, like some Vietnam veteran with PTSD.
Grant Rorrison
577 Posted 03/06/2021 at 18:55:21
Gavin 576. Once Everton's touched you...
Darren Hind
578 Posted 03/06/2021 at 18:56:14
Thomas. I addressed that to Rob. I felt he had the intelligence to understand the point
Paul Tran
579 Posted 03/06/2021 at 18:56:18
Rob #522, thanks for that interesting insight. None of us know if it is true, but there's certainly nothing there I can argue with. Looked to me like Ancelotti was hacked off for a while, I've seen Richarlison & Holgate being separated after two games and I'd echo the views on Iwobi & Bernard.

I'm glad someone tore into the players and equally glad that while Brands bought many of the players mentioned, he had the honesty to describe them accurately.

I really hope this happened. Its noteworthy that there have been no 'goodbye and thank you' tweets. Even Mourinho got a few of those.

Paul Hewitt
580 Posted 03/06/2021 at 18:56:31
TAA is a young lad who's just got a injury and will miss a very important tournament. I really fine people taking the Mick in poor taste. Even if he does play for the rs.
Derek Knox
581 Posted 03/06/2021 at 18:58:09
Rob Halligan, makes a lot of sense on both sides of the coin, players who just seemed to go through the motions, not gelling with Carlo, as was Brands fractious involvement with Carlo. I didn't think Brands had that big a pair of boots to kick certain arses, so he has also gone up a notch on my Creditometer!

Thing is now the conundrum of who is, or will be in the frame for the job, I'm surprised Roger Rabbit hasn't been mentioned when it comes to frames !

Geoff Trenner
582 Posted 03/06/2021 at 18:58:52
Jack, not yet. Don’t go anywhere without your phone!
Colin Glassar
583 Posted 03/06/2021 at 19:01:59
Great stuff, Rob. Pulitzer Prize methinks. If Marcel needs someone to sort out Iwobi and co I’m more than happy to volunteer.
Sean Callaghan
584 Posted 03/06/2021 at 19:02:47
Brilliant story, Barry Hesketh (527) and a lot more plausible than that bollocks spouted by Rob Halligan
Danny O’Neill
585 Posted 03/06/2021 at 19:04:06
I hope someone ripped into the players. They deserved some home truths.

I'm mild mannered in normal life and with my family but in certain professional circumstances I've been in and on the football pitch or in the changing room I'm a different beast.

If true, I hope Brands is finally taking control of the situation because someone needs to.

Darren Hind; echo your shout on Collette's post.

Kristian Boyce
586 Posted 03/06/2021 at 19:04:54
Rob, I'm not surprised at all all at this. I had a feeling all wasn't right with Carlo from a cut to camera view of the bench in the previous game. Dunc was angrily motioning something in his ear behind him in a spell of awful play, and Carlo just rolled his eyes in a very blaisez fashion. It felt like then that he'd given up on us. This also goes along with a social media post that's come to light from Davide's wife, which is a goodbye to her local fitness trainer saying that she'll miss her when she moves.

As a DOF, Brands should be the one selecting the next manager. I'd imagine like any other DOF, he already had a working list drawn up of potential replacements. I read something a while back when Les Reid was the DOF down at Southampton, that he would have a regular updated manager 'transfer target' list ready to go in case anything happened to their current manager.

To be honest, I can't see the 3 names linked to us by the media even being on his list. Moyes has literally had his first good season in management since leaving us all those years ago. Speaking with my WHU supporting friend, this year has basically been the same as our 4th placed year. He said they had a few good games, but it basically boiled down to that they weren't as bad compared to some of the other teams that they played. He said if the season had lasted a few more weeks, that they would have completely fallen out of European contention as they were completely burnt out from the season.

Nuno is also a no for me. For all the praise he gets for that Wolves team, a big portion of it is from Jorge Mendes bringing in half the Portuguese national team. The promotion year was expensively funded and created the strongest ever Championship team. They absolutely romped the league that year, but I believe they faced FFP issues the following season because of it. Riding off that success and more Portuguese players they had two successful seasons following but the style was very defensively pragmatic. Last season they were awful, while some of the injuries maybe a factor, they brought in replacements but the football was basically as dour as ours, if not worse.

This also goes for Howe too. He gets lauded for his achievements with Bournemouth, but to be honest when looking at the facts, they aren't that impressive. While being small in statue, they had a whole bunch of funding behind them from their Russian owner. The rise through the divisions was from his heavy funding. They and he finally got found out as they couldn't defend, very similar to Martinez. The lack of a plan B was his downfall, and if he was such a big draw, why has it only been Celtic that have shown any interest in him since his departure?

Lets hope Brands has something up his sleeve, as well as some clubs lined up for the players he laid into. Wouldn't it be ironic that we go and play in the States, and none of our South American contingent will be still at the club.

Colin Glassar
587 Posted 03/06/2021 at 19:05:05
Show some respect, Callaghan. Rob knows this man and his dog,
Dale Self
588 Posted 03/06/2021 at 19:05:23
TAA gets a ta ta from me. And that's not good form Sean, expand a bit on your criticism if you can be bothered.
Barry Hesketh
589 Posted 03/06/2021 at 19:05:55
Paul @580
I don't think many people are enjoying the injury to the player, more mocking the media reaction to his injury, because of who he plays for the media make out that he's Pele, Cruyff, and Maradonna rolled into one, when in truth he's just one of a number of full-backs who can perform the job for England.
Martin Berry
590 Posted 03/06/2021 at 19:07:18
I really hope Brands gets the responsibility to chose the next Manager, the man has to work with him and discuss signings etc, Owners don't know much about football only about their finances so let the Director of Football do what he was brought in to do.
I hope he gets on with Rafa Benitez as I think it could be a great match, Rafa is a developer of squads and likes mainly younger players rather than firefighting with older ones who are on the other slide of the slope.
Derek Moore
591 Posted 03/06/2021 at 19:07:49
I guess I'd be in the minority by being disappointed then if Rob Halligans information is remotely factual.

Was it Archie Knox with the baseball bat back in the day?

You very rarely get the best out of people by publicly denigrating them or their colleagues in front of their peers. That has always been my experience in management, both in the field and in theory.

If this is indeed true, things are very grim indeed.

Tony Abrahams
592 Posted 03/06/2021 at 19:08:33
People will take out of Rob’s story what they want to believe. The story was that Ancellotti went back to Rome, after the City game, to be with his children, who lost their mother two days later, after telling them all to enjoy their summer, even though they had just been destroyed 5-0?

If this is true, it sounds like Carlo has decided I’m a celebrity get me out of here, and does make me relieved that he’s left, because although I’m aware that some of the players are definitely not good enough, neither were the formations that he used, that had most of the lower teams, running us ragged at Goodison Pk, and had me scratching my brain, and making me wonder why he’d moved away from making us very hard to beat?

Daniel A Johnson
593 Posted 03/06/2021 at 19:10:10
So forgive me for having a chuckle when TAA went off, whilst Pickford was getting death threats from reds threatening to, kill his family early on in the season.

Plus mark my words if Pickford drops a clanger at the Euros he will be crucified and put on pitta bread by the red shite run media as payback for Virgil RIP.

Bill Gienapp
594 Posted 03/06/2021 at 19:15:47
If what Rob says is true (and I have no reason to doubt it), it sounds like we were likely headed for another Koeman/Silva type implosion next season. If so, it's just as well that Ancelotti left now and made a clean break of it.

I think it also underscores the importance of finding the *right* manager for the job, rather than obsessing over optics. We just had Carlo Ancelotti, and some are acting like we're a joke club with no ambition unless we throw a blank check at Conte or Pochettino.

If Brands were to determine that, say, Graham Potter (who I now seem to be fixated on) were the right guy... who really cares that he's coming from Brighton? Either he's up to the challenge or he's not.

On a side note, let's not get fixated on Josh King. He was a half-season rental brought in to provide cheap squad depth. You can't honestly think he's reflective of any sort of larger philosophy.

Brian Williams
595 Posted 03/06/2021 at 19:16:57
Barry#589.
Unlike that shower of shite across the way who made up a song about Seamus when he had that awful leg break, and sang it often too.
Sang that about a player who'd done amazing charity work for supporter/s of that shower too.
Gavin Johnson
596 Posted 03/06/2021 at 19:17:18
Just give the job to Dunc. I think he could work well with Brands
Steavey Buckley
597 Posted 03/06/2021 at 19:17:38
My reservations with Nuno he did not take Wolves to the next level. 8th or 10th may satisfy Wolves fans, but won't satisfy Everton fans.

My most unpopular choice is Steven Gerrard because he would not tolerate for 1 minute the poor football Everton played for the whole of last season, when Ancelotti eventually gave up and moved on to brighter things with Madrid.

But if Nuno is appointed he is too much of nice person to comment about poor football again being played next season.

Brian Harrison
598 Posted 03/06/2021 at 19:19:52
Rob

I am not doubting what you say, but I would question if your source got this completely right. What I find strange is 3 of the players he singled out were people he signed as DOF, Iwobi and Bernard, and Mina as for saying Bernard will never play for this club again, well of course he wont he is out of contract.

I said weeks ago that it was quite obvious that Ancelotti didn't fancy King so it seemed he must have been signed by Brands, and therein lies the problem. Because if you have 2 people who the owner allows to buy players then you are in serious trouble, especially if they don't see eye to eye. I am far from convinced Brands is as good as many think he is. But my biggest question is that if this meeting took place and Brands laid into the players, was our assistant head coach at this meeting and if not why not. He must have been just as aware as Brands that Carlo was gone and his son Davide would be going as well, so how come Ferguson wasnt making these speeches and seeing the U23s were also there I wonder if Unsworth was there.

Rob Halligan
599 Posted 03/06/2021 at 19:23:22
Brian, Bernard has another twelve months on his contract. I wasn’t told if any other coaches were in the meeting.
Alan J Thompson
600 Posted 03/06/2021 at 19:23:40
I find it hard to believe, sounds more like a soap opera.

So Ancelotti and his family, I assume his son and son-in-law went with him, found another way home which may have been the case for those players living nearer Manchester, and while it may be unusual, the season was over and would there have been any need to go to Finch Farm, Bill and Farhad most certainly wouldn't have been there and I would have thought that Brands would have an office in the Liver Buildings. In any case any falling out between senior managers should have been sorted out by the CEO and, noticeably, she gets no mention whatsoever.

I then wonder why the ever changing U-23s would be involved in any Brands tirade and what sort of manager at any level would single out individuals in any group meeting as they need only answer that they were following the manager's instructions. Similarly, problems with the U-23s should and would be better directed to the coaching staff responsible for them. Unless Mr Brands had merely called them together to announce that Mr Ancelotti was leaving.

How, when and why Ancelotti decided on the move to Madrid raises most questions as I assume that his family, most particularly his son and son-in-law, would have had to discuss the end of their employment with their nearest and dearest. And if Everton are not entitled to any compensation then most surely Real Madrid need to be cited for "tapping" a manager of another club.

Whatever, there most certainly is a lot more to be told which most probably won't be revealed for some years yet unless this sparks a move to completely revamp the Board.

Michael Lynch
601 Posted 03/06/2021 at 19:24:00
Not too sure about Rob's story, particularly the bit about calling Iwobi a waste of fucking space. And I'm not sure what Bernard has done to be ripped apart in front of his team mates.

Anyway, the most obvious explanation is usually the correct one: Carlo signed up in good faith for a rebuilding project, something he'd never done before. It turns out he's not very good at it, and he doesn't get on with his DoF either. Instead of qualifying for Europe, the team finish mid-table and he's flummoxed. What the fuck do I do with this shower of shite? Where's me Ronaldo? Meanwhile, there's a break-in at his home which leaves his daughter traumatised. Then his ex-wife dies leaving his son miserable. His agent says do you fancy Madrid again Carlo? Too fucking right I do, says Carlo, and off he trots.

No conspiracy theories, no storming out, no nothing. Just a bloke who has had a shit year, and has been offered a lovely get out of jail card - a year (perhaps) in lovely Madrid, playing in Europe, lots of decent players, great wine, great food, sunshine, and no scallies robbing your home. Take me with you Carlo.

Barry Hesketh
602 Posted 03/06/2021 at 19:24:08
Sensible advice that is given to any company from any competent HR expert.

Recruitment is essential to your company. Undertaken correctly it will result in you acquiring high-calibre, long-term assets for the company and will actually, reduce your future recruitment requirements.

Poor recruitment procedures and processes can only damage the company bottom line and will, in effect, increase your recruitment needs.

Current thinking on recruitment of Everton's board.

Next!

Brian Harrison
603 Posted 03/06/2021 at 19:26:31
Rob,

I hope you don't think I was having a pop at you because I wasn't. Just seeing as we were prepared to let Bernard go in January, even if he has 12 months left. I would be surprised to see him here next season.

Dale Self
604 Posted 03/06/2021 at 19:27:50
There are good reasons to believe: 1) the board doesn't have anyone lined up so that means they were surprised, not pushing Carlo out the door. 2) It is rumored that Real Madrid bought out Carlo's contract which would be more affordable knowing no compensation to Everton was required. 3) Moshiri has been making "face" buys in the coaches market and that has probably frustrated Brands who should be making that call.

Not saying it is in fact true but it does operate as a functional theory of what happened until you can get some facts that contradict.

John Hammond
605 Posted 03/06/2021 at 19:30:49
Don't believe a word of that Rob! Perhaps that Brands and Ancelotti didn't get on to a degree. They obviously didn't see eye-to-eye. Whatever the truth is, it's abundantly clear that we go back to Brands's recruitment policy, that we let him do the job he was brought in for.

Hopefully this time next season we're in a better place, Real haven't won a thing and Carlo is looking for another job.

Ian Burns
606 Posted 03/06/2021 at 19:31:56
If we tap into a manager such as Conte or any other such European alternative, you can bet his first call will be to CA to find out why he really left and what would they be walking into?

Choosing such a manager as Potter, Moyes or Dunc, they would be through door faster than you could open the bloody thing.

Sitting in the middle of those two extremes sits Nuno or my own choice of Ten Hag.

Trevor Peers
607 Posted 03/06/2021 at 19:38:39
Nuno is just a safety net or should be.
Conte should at least be approached, he wants big wages and Levy is a skinflint, so you never know.
If the answer is 'no' then Pochetino must be invited next, they are the real deal and Moshiri knows it.

I'd be amazed if we didn't at least try and get either of them.

Bill Gienapp
608 Posted 03/06/2021 at 19:39:25
Re: the clause in Carlo's contract, the thinking probably was that, worst case scenario, a big club coming for him would at least mean that he'd done a bang-up job for us. The board is probably scratching their heads over him finishing 10th and getting poached by Real Madrid anyway.
Brian Wilkinson
609 Posted 03/06/2021 at 19:41:46
I know Barry tells a nice story of uncle Bill and Davey, however Bill was full of support for Moshiri pulling the stops out to get Antonio Conte, but took a step back when he realised it was not Tom Conti.

He was looking to add Tom in one of his west end plays, As well as Managing our football club.

Now he is chasing Moyes so he and Bill can do a stage play of Shirley Valentine, Bill with his flowing grey locks playing Shirley, while Davey sits by the bar, playing ive got a brand new pair of kecks, on his bagpipes.

With Bill doing a reworking of those were the Days my friend, on cyrils crossbar then, I took my sweets and headed in the pen, in later years of goading, I formed the true Blue holding, ring fenced kings Dock, and lost Artetas cash.

Finishing with an encore of the famous hankey, dabbing his eye.

Moyes where’s your trousers.

Dale Self
610 Posted 03/06/2021 at 19:44:45
Nice Bill, the presence of that clause is a bit of a sign that Carlo knew that he was to be a first class face on a second class squad. But there is still the unknown of whether he was actually promised some funds that dried up or if the soured fortunes of Real Madrid are what drove the pull of the kill switch.
Daniel A Johnson
611 Posted 03/06/2021 at 19:47:33
Poch, Sarri, Zidane & Conte!!!!

Some people don't learn.

After 18 months when the big volatile champions league clubs spew out yet another manager they will be off.
Leaving us back to square one. again.

Cloud cuckoo land to think anyone of that calibre would stay for 3-4 yrs at this club living on transfer fund handouts and trying to get a tune out of Siggy and Iwobi.

We need a sensible choice not another Hollywood vanity project who will just collect the coin and bide their time for a move to a bigger better club.

We need a long term manager.

Kevin Molloy
612 Posted 03/06/2021 at 19:47:47
so two of our recent managers now occupy the top two jobs in world football, and another manages the team favourites to win the world cup.
We're certainly moving up in the world, no doubt about that. It's all strangely dissatisfying though.
Rob Halligan
613 Posted 03/06/2021 at 19:55:30
Listen, I don’t give a fuck if anybody believes this or not, but what I will say is this, that this information has come from someone who sat in on that team meeting held by Brands.
Dale Self
614 Posted 03/06/2021 at 19:58:39
Good enough for me Rob, thanks for that!
Grant Rorrison
615 Posted 03/06/2021 at 19:58:57
Rob 613. Who was it? Iwobi? :P
Rob Halligan
616 Posted 03/06/2021 at 20:01:05
Yeah Grant, it was.
Darren Hind
617 Posted 03/06/2021 at 20:01:25
Good enough for me Rob
Thomas Richards
618 Posted 03/06/2021 at 20:02:26
Rob,

Why wouldnt people believe you?
You are an honest poster on TW. Respected by all.
I believe you 100%

Daniel A Johnson
619 Posted 03/06/2021 at 20:02:59
Fair play Rob didn't know Brands had it in him.
Hector Blaukugel
620 Posted 03/06/2021 at 20:05:36
Rob #522. Fascinating insight if there is some truth to it, it does kind of add up if so. At the time I thought Carlo seemed past caring during his last few post match interviews, his body language gave the impression of a man who realised he had done what he could & things weren't going to improve. He had the look of a defeated man. The players are the ones who should be getting a load of stick on twitter etc, Like someone else said these inept footballers have seen off a few managers now. Big mega clear out asap & more hungry Ben Godfrey types required. I'm curious to know what Dunc was doing when this shit went off? I just can't picture him stood there looking down sheepishly & biting his nails whilst Brands tore them a new arsehole. Anyway, it's all very Everton isn't it, no wonder the RS get so much comedy mileage out of us, and always will. Depressing.
Rob Halligan
621 Posted 03/06/2021 at 20:10:39
Thomas, there are a few doubting what I have posted. No skin off my nose, couldn’t give a fuck. Obviously I can’t reveal my source, but safe too say, I believe him 100%, purely because off where the information originated. It’s hard not to say anymore because I don’t want anyone getting in the shit.
Jeff Armstrong
622 Posted 03/06/2021 at 20:15:04
Not wanting to steal Robs thunder, but I sent his story to a mate of mine who does a bit of youth coaching at FF, this was his reply,

I was at Finch Farm on the Saturday they set off for Manchester (they were doing an overnight), and there was a weird vibe as they got on the coach.

The Richarlison / Holgate beef is true, and Brands and Ancelotti had pretty much broken down a while ago.

He didn’t mention the Brands meeting but kind of confirms a couple of the things Rob says.

Pat Kelly
623 Posted 03/06/2021 at 20:15:54
Moshiri hasn't got it right so far. Another big name Ancelotti type won't have the staying power to build a team which is what is still needed. Maybe it's now time to let Dunc do the necessary motivation and coaching while Brands takes charge of the buying and selling, assembling a competitive squad. Complementary skills if they can work together and are given a few years.
Tony Abrahams
624 Posted 03/06/2021 at 20:17:33
Don’t say another word Rob, because if it was someone who was in the meeting, then I just hope you’re pally with one of the players mate!
Bill Gienapp
625 Posted 03/06/2021 at 20:18:03
Grant (615) - I mean, who doesn't love the idea of Iwobi calling Rob in tears and saying "You should have heard the way Marcel yelled at me!"
David Pearl
626 Posted 03/06/2021 at 20:22:14
Carlo lost the players with his tactics and blamed the players after trying to embarrass them. He put his fortune in his pocket and went straight to Madrid, did not pass Crosby.

We need a right side in the transfer window and a manager these players can trust and grow with. I never thought Tuchel could do what he did with Chelsea, so it can be done with the right man in charge. Someone who is on the same page as Brands and... hopefully Moshiri takes the advice from the guy he is paying £2m a year to and not someone who wants to come in and rest on past glories while picking up Euro lottery money.

Gavin Johnson
627 Posted 03/06/2021 at 20:25:34
Good enough for me Rob, and I think Jeff echoing some of that from another source from FF shows something was rotten in the state of Denmark.

And if you look at the contention in Carlo's relationship with Brands, the fact he didn't make a European spot, and throw in family tragedy like deaths and his home being burgled maybe it's really no surprise Carlo's upped sticks for Real.

The beef between Richie and Holgate might be another factor as to why the stories been going around that Holgate's on his way out.

Trevor Peers
628 Posted 03/06/2021 at 20:26:03
Daniel#611.
If Moshiri hasn't got the money to finance a huge spending spree, then I agree there would be no point in appointing Conte or Pochetino. Although I'd like to think we do have access to Usmanov's £billions via his friendship with Moshiri.

But if that's not the case, then big Dunc seems the best bet, at least we'd know if any player didn't give 100% they would have him to answer to in the dressing room. Hard to think of any other contender extracting the right response from our current band of misfit players.

Billy Bradshaw
629 Posted 03/06/2021 at 20:27:03
Rob 631, reporter Adam Jones at the echo just done a piece on the Echo app how he thinks Evertons next manager should be picked by Marcel Brands, looks to me he's been reading ToffeeWeb for his info.
Conor McCourt
630 Posted 03/06/2021 at 20:27:06
Rob it doesn't matter whether it's totally accurate or not it's that you believe it to be truth. What is important is that some of us greatly appreciate you sticking your neck out and informing us in good faith. From a personal perspective apart from sharing opinions and ideas with fellow Evertonians it's posts and inside knowledge like yours why an outsider like me was drawn to ToffeeWeb as I don't otherwise have access to these insights.

Don't worry about critique as that's also one of the beauties of this site in that we challenge everything and are free to do so.

John Armstrong
631 Posted 03/06/2021 at 20:28:15
Regardless of whether or not Brands actually said that, it's clear that he now actually has to show his mettle, or be given the oportunity to do so by (presumably) being responsible for choosing the next manager amongst other ongoing duties. I think he's done an OK job so far, but we will hopefully see more fruits of his labours over the next 3 years. The board obviously respect him.

Re Carlo, my own impression is that he probably became quickly aware of the shortcomings of the squad, in terms of ability and/or spirit, attitude and desire etc. And why wouldn't he, having worked with some of the best players on the planet?. Some of his comments, such as not having the squad to play attacking football (twice I think he said that) and 'I'm not a magician' are pretty damning indictments of his playing staff, and maybe the writing was in the wall then, in hindsight. Dissapointed though in his comments about wanting to improve us year on year if he had doubts then, but perhaps in the end he just didn't have the stomach for it. Still think the players have to shoulder a fair bit of the blame, as alluded to by Seamus a couple of years ago.

Over to you Marcel, I only hope he can pull us out of this mess and turn us around.

Daniel A Johnson
632 Posted 03/06/2021 at 20:28:35
Trevor [628]

Don't forget Duncan has been in that dressing room and training ground for 10 yrs, under numerous managers.

He hasn't helped to motivate them under any incumbent so far.

Thomas Richards
633 Posted 03/06/2021 at 20:28:43
Leave it there Rob.
Or the innuendo and speculation will start.
As you say mate, believe it, don't believe it. Up to them.
David Thomas
634 Posted 03/06/2021 at 20:29:47
Brands has been as bigger let down as the managers. I wouldn’t mind him fucking off as well.
Kevin Molloy
635 Posted 03/06/2021 at 20:30:42
the biggest hit to Brands' reputation is Iwobi, so not too surprising he got both barrels. The lad probably gives off the vibe he's not too bothered either way. I'm hoping Brands fell out with Carlo when he saw the list of OAPs he wanted to lure to Finch Farm.
This is all incidental I suppose to the main point that the club looks completely wrecked at the moment. We finished the season comfortably the worst team in the division. So we've got another crisis on our hands. The new guy needs to be highly committed, and a very strong character just for starters. I think we need someone to stabilise us, not get us into the CL.
Barry Rathbone
636 Posted 03/06/2021 at 20:30:44
Michael Lynch 601

I think that about covers it

Matthew Williams
637 Posted 03/06/2021 at 20:31:04
As for the names were linked with,I'd take a punt on Periera,I wanted him after we binned off Rubbertoe,he has a decent win percentage and seems a bit of a mad bastard to boot!.

I don't want another yes man,talking about a great family club,doing yet more sterling work in the local community etc.

Just get us playing some decent footy,put some pride back and bring about a sudden end to a million and one fucking back passes,please!.

Will Mabon
638 Posted 03/06/2021 at 20:31:39
Rob,

you posted it, explained initially, and that's enough. People can (and will) either believe or disbelieve it, right to the point that you show a video of it. Don't get yourself in trouble with any further detail, Matey.

Andrew Brookfield
639 Posted 03/06/2021 at 20:33:34
It’s taking me a few days to come to terms with this, and I just don’t know where we go from here. Between the hope Carlo gave me coupled with the rigged system and payment scheme of CL I’m genuinely considering my interest in football.

That said, what was special about Carlo was the ambition Everton showed. Replacing him with Moyes, Lampard, NES just lacks excitement and belief.

Ancelloti was right because of everything he professed in his book about projects and loyalty, Conte wouldn’t have that attitude or desire.

I don’t have an answer which isn’t depressing, but I lean towards Potter, Rangik, or the Southampton manager.

As I’ve stated many times before I want us to play a high line high, pressing tactic, so any manager who embodies this is right for me.

Darren Hind
640 Posted 03/06/2021 at 20:36:33
Seems Brands has won his power struggle with Carlo.

Lets hope he gets the right man and football comes home.

I have this strange urge to start singing Ding Dong ther Wicked Witch is dead

Mike Gaynes
641 Posted 03/06/2021 at 20:41:48
Rob #522, just got home from the gym, and it looks like you've been pumping some heavy iron too. Many thanks for a superb, informative post.

I wish I could say I'm astonished by any of that, but what we've seen on the pitch from some of these players certainly reflects your information about what's gone on behind the scenes. I'm only surprised a bit by the mention of Mina, whose effort in games seems complete and who also has been seen to call out teammates who needed it. But if he, Holgate and Richarlison must go, so be it. Iwobi is a Brands signing, so Marcel must take his share of responsibility for that error.

However, I agree that every step forward must now be placed in the hands of Marcel, for better or worse. Of all the honchos at the club, he has shown by far the best judgement, occasional errors notwithstanding.

And Rob, I'm biased, but if there's a TW Post of the Season award, I'd say you just locked it up.

Dale Self
642 Posted 03/06/2021 at 20:43:33
Make it for the coming season Mike. I think everyone will want to forget this one.

And fair play Darren, I'll do doo wop background vocals to that if you'll have it.

Christine Foster
643 Posted 03/06/2021 at 20:44:35
Sometimes in life you bite off more than you can chew, you find yourself struggling to control people or events. Cue Carlo. Like many I thought and hoped he would turn around the club and fashion a team capable of competing in Europe. They had the chance until the wheels came off post Christmas.
In the end he gave up. Too much like hard work. Only he knows why, but it's clear that the legacy of previous managers players fitting into his idea of a team was at best optimistic at worst fatal. That it would actually take two or three years to get there was I guess not very appealing. Top it off with a personally bad year for the family then you can almost understand that at some point the Italian equivalent to "stuff this for a game of soldiers" was uttered. In truth it was probably a collection of things that made it too hard, home, the squad, individuals, time frames, transfer kitty, finally the promise of something easier..If Real Madrid is easier what does that make our club?
An opportunity missed, gone wrong..inquests on the back of a fag packet. But what is clear is that there will be a price to be paid by players, rightly so, it will be interesting this summer to see who goes. The problem as Ancelotti found, was that he did not have the depth of squad of players with quality or who he could trust to do the job. That replacements are not readily available or affordable to a club such as Everton, he will be a mere footnote in our history, soon forgotten.
Rob H's mini insight fits the scenario too, even Brands outburst, (I have not met many Dutch men who were backward about telling it the way it is) may be a great insight into an unhappy squad (Ancelotti words a couple of weeks ago are now more insightful as well)
Whoever comes in, a clear out of all the perceive instigators of bad feeling has to be done otherwise the rot will just fester awaiting another opportunity to see off the next incumbent. For the good of the club, the clear out must happen.
John Keating
644 Posted 03/06/2021 at 20:46:39
Brands should not pick the new manager, He should be it!!
And Chairman, and coach and ballboy and everything else!!
Wouldn't it be great getting someone who just told these wasters the lie of the land and their fortunes!
Paul Birmingham
645 Posted 03/06/2021 at 20:47:43
Rob, thanks for the insight, which stacks up and it seems a parting of ways was inevitable based on the inner rifts within the club, via Marcel and Carlo, and his team, and more importantly the level of inconsistency and rank poorest ever home form..

Definitely the Carlo tones were changing across the last 6 games and his after match interviews were more and more dysfunctional to the point of being pointless.

Let’s hope the club acts fast and a period of stability and genuine belief and hope and loyalty can be instilled into the new manager of Everton, and a new dawn of hope and success.

Will their be a decent war chest and which players will now seek to leave Everton?

The plot of who’s coming in or not will hopefully go into over drive showing that Everton are doing their utmost to bring stability back into the club.

Gavin Johnson
646 Posted 03/06/2021 at 20:47:44
https://youtu.be/Txcu-wQ7HR8

Hope this link works. It's a tactical video on Nuno. Definitely worth taking a look. It it doesn't just go to YouTube and search, Tactical Evolution of Nuno Espirito Santo. It's a video by Tifo football who always make very good videos for tactical analysis.

Shows him to be quite versatile and tactically astute.

Keith Harrison
647 Posted 03/06/2021 at 20:50:28
Having known Rob a few years, and suspect I possibly know his source, I do not doubt at all the central gist of his post. Some things may, depending on how many hands/mouths this went through prior to reaching Rob's delicate lugholes, suffer from additions/deletions/embellishments by a teller, but it stacks up in the majority to me.
More things are dripping through on the Echo - I know, I know - but all the players excepting Thierry Small dropping him on Instagram etc seems to speak volumes. Carlo wanted rid of Kean is the latest shock expose, a young kid from Italy that Marcel signed. Carlo has had a magnificent managerial career with high profile clubs that were full of Galacticos, Generalissimos, and Obergruhpenfuhrers when he arrived. To the best of my knowledge, he hasn't built teams, he has fine tuned them.

Whether the basket-case known as Everton was beyond him, we might never know - or suspect we do already - but we have seen how youth was sparingly used, and that Carlo wanted the older established player he was comfortable with. This does not fit at all with Mr Brands, or even Evertons team building mission statement of investing in younger players, and could be another bone of contention between them.

Whatever, apart from the City game, I watched every match we played in, also got a refund on my season ticket for it, and after the heady days of September up to the home Derby, felt like a dog with 2 dicks. then the crash came, and despite our superb away record, the football, especially at home, was turgid. 8 defenders per game, no or few subs made, no driving influence etc. Thanks Carlo, but I thought we left that behind when the gravy man left.

As a director of the Company, Marcel Brands - not BK or DBB, or, even Moshiri - should press on with HIS transfer plans now, improve the team, and then solely appoint a manager who can coach, coax and motivate the current bunch of misfirers.


(dons tin helmet and f***s off)

Hector Blaukugel
648 Posted 03/06/2021 at 20:51:01
Totally agree with Conor #630, any insider info is greatly appreciated Rob & helps in making an informed decision. I mean, I saw some dickheads the other day on twitter tagging Carlo calling him an Italian prick & whatnot for having the audacity to leave us, embarrassing. Not saying he would have read that, but I'm sure he has media managers & it makes us look proper blerts.
Let's not forget, someone like Carlo will no doubt have huge respect amongst the European management fraternity & I wouldn't be surprised if he advised others to avoid the toxic atmosphere we have here.
Don Alexander
649 Posted 03/06/2021 at 20:53:05
Rob's post seems credible to me but a source tells me the final straw for Carlo was the offer of a ride on Kenwright's chopper when the team coach was disdained.

I guess something might have been lost in translation though.

John Cartwright
650 Posted 03/06/2021 at 20:57:38
Well done Christine, I think given the fragmentary evidence it covers all stops. Too many players have taken it easy over the years, I don't think the problems will go away until there is a clean sweep of playing staff and hangers on. Few players can be proud this season, although I think Pickford has improved, Godfrey has been a revelation, Davies (I know I know) and DCL have tried, and nobody can criticise Seamus. But it's been a strange season, and going to take a ruthless individual to sort out the mess.
John Armstrong
651 Posted 03/06/2021 at 21:00:33
Can any of our more knowledgable posters give a kind of mini run-down on some of the more exotic (to me at least) managerial candidates, e.g. Ten Hag, Rangnick, Conceicao etc? In terms of their preferred playing style etc. It might help by bringing on fantasies of fast-paced, aggressive, attacking football, if any are in that mould.
Paul Birmingham
652 Posted 03/06/2021 at 21:03:45
Good read Keith, and on reflection, it looks more and more like the perfect storm, was created and would explain the Jekyl and Hyde performances.

Maybe the confines of Goodison gripped the team to the point of giving up., who knows, but may explain the downing tools by the squad straight after Christmas.

In terms of chemistry then it would seem at best it must have been frosty on most days at a Finch Farm..

More to follow these comings days, I’m sure.

Billy Bradshaw
653 Posted 03/06/2021 at 21:05:09
Don 649 comedy gold 🤣
John Skelly
654 Posted 03/06/2021 at 21:11:59
That about sums it up Darren after all the inuendo.
Keith Harrison
655 Posted 03/06/2021 at 21:14:00
John, 651. Exactly that - fantasies - with our current squad. You cannot polish a turd.

Mind you, the tv is on in the background as I type, and unless it is the lighting in here, Anne Boleyn was a rather striking coloured lady, which was definitely not mentioned in our parchment reference books at school. Perhaps we are already in fantasy land.

Beam me up, Marcel.

James Owen
656 Posted 03/06/2021 at 21:21:18
Keith, 655

You can't say "coloured" these days. 'Not anymore!' As Alan Partridge would say...

Very important to remember too if we get Nuno Espirito Santo as our next boss!


Jay Harris
657 Posted 03/06/2021 at 21:21:21
Rob,
Like Mike G late to the party but no surprise.

You only had to look at CArlo's expresion to know he wasnt happy.

It is similar to what I felt about Koeman who downed tools when he felt he wasnt being supported.

A few things come out of this

1 the importance of synergy throughout the management

The importance of backing the manager 100%

The importance of having quality players and not mercenaries (Just read Walcotts comments who was on 150k a week and has accepted a 50% wage cut to go).

Italians are very big on honour and respect so Carlo was obviously offended by somone or circumatances.

Andrew Grey
658 Posted 03/06/2021 at 21:22:33
Rob,

It seems that Carlo left right after the City game because his ex wife and Davide's mother was in her last hours of life.

https://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/football/everton-carlo-ancelotti-ex-wife-24185068

Mike Doyle
659 Posted 03/06/2021 at 21:23:27
Mike G # 641 ] May I second your nomination of Rob H for “TW Post of the Season”.
Also - as I don’t know Rob’s age - he could be a contender for “TW Young Poster of the Year” too.
It would be nice to see someone so committed to the club ‘doing the double’ as it may be some time before the team does.
Andrew Grey
660 Posted 03/06/2021 at 21:33:19

Rob (522)
Sort of skews your post a little as it came to the boil when Carlo left the City game?

'Carlo Ancelotti was married to Luisa Gibellini for 25 years before 2008 split She was mother to their son Davide, Everton assistant, and daughter Katia Ancelotti flew back to Italy on Sunday after Luisa's condition worsened She tragically died on Monday.'

from:
https://www.dailyadvent.com/gb/news/26a24b7bd016615ef9d3b2ac33a20f7a-Carlo-Ancelottis-exwife-of-25-years-Luisa-Gibellini-dies-aged-63-after-long-illness-as-Everton-manager-grieves-loss-of-childhood-sweetheart-and-mother-of-two-children-in-Italy

Jay Wood
[BRZ]

661 Posted 03/06/2021 at 21:38:03
Rob, I have no doubt you are 100% genuine in sharing with us what you have heard, rather than some of the fantasists on TW who sound off about the inner workings of Finch Farm without being close to or having personal contact with people who do work there.

I would advise you to now tread carefully and not give any more clues about your source as this could make things difficult for them.

That said, I don't wish to denigrate either you or your source Rob, but some of this is a bit of stretch IMO, all the more so when you consider the chronology of events and earlier statements made by some of the cast you mention.

The claim that Brands did not get on at all with Ancelotti contradicts both men's public statements on the mutual respect they held for each other in the 18 months they have been at Everton together. That they met and discussed matters daily and that signings were mutually agreed between the two of them.

It's just 6-7 weeks ago that Brands signed a 3-year contract extension and in interview he spoke of the excellent relationships he shares with all at the club, all striving to achieve the club's ambitions. He described Carlo as 'a great manager, great personality, who recognizes and embraces all the club stands for...we have an honest and open relationship.'

Brands expressed satisfaction at the quality of the squad and the mix of experienced and developing players, but that you always strive to improve even with financial restraints. He closed by saying the ultimate goal for all at the club should be to make the fans proud and happy.

Nor do I see Brands as the type to bring all the players together and slam them collectively or individually as you report. He is more about collaboration and cooperation rather than confrontation and conflict.

Clearly something changed and unravelled very quickly in the last couple of months. Maybe Carlo has been leading us on all this time, but as your own walking-the-dog meeting with his son-in-law Rob in which he mentioned how enamoured of Everton Carlo was and how he wanted to create something special here, Carlo always came over very sincere in his utterances about Everton.

The personal aspect - the break-in of his home in February which so spooked his daughter-in-law and the death of his first wife - cannot be discounted as influencing his mood and thinking.

On the latter, his ex-wife died the next day following the defeat at City. It was reported that Carlo flew directly to Italy after the game to be with her. That put's a different slant on him not travelling back to Liverpool on the team bus. Wouldn't Manchester airport be his likely destination, probably with the club's blessing?

A single week between that event - being at her death bed, burying her, still in mourning - to being announced as Real manager. No surprise he hasn't been seen or heard from at Everton in that time.

What that does point to as you wrote, however, is that the plan to leave to Real was already in motion before all that, which casts a shadow over the much vaunted integrity and honesty of Carlo.

I repeat, I just don't see Brands as the type to bring all the players together and slam them collectively or individually as you report. Also, it must have been a very small window to do that in because almost immediately many of the squad travelled to meet up with their national teams.

I don't disbelieve there was possible tension between Marcel and Carlo with one seeking organic growth via the academy and recruitment of young talent and the other wanting oven-ready quality players. Carlo was very explicit about that: 'My job is not to develop young players.'

I also think it is telling that - other than Thierry Small that I know of - no other player has done the usual thing when a manager/player departs of posting favourable 'good luck' comments towards Carlo on social media. That is unusual in this day and age.

Something clearly amiss and (naturally) unreported about the true state of affairs at the club.

And to repeat Rob, I'm not questioning your own or your source's integrity. Just speaking aloud trying to make sense of what you've shared with us.

Grant Rorrison
662 Posted 03/06/2021 at 21:54:29
I don't blame him for leaving. It's been obvious since that derby game where we lost to a bunch of kids that something is very wrong with this group of players. They either don't give two shits or are total bottlers. He's obviously realised the enormity of the task and thought 'fuck it'. I wouldn't get my hopes up that anything is going to change for the better any time soon.
Gavin Johnson
663 Posted 03/06/2021 at 21:56:52
I thought Richarlison had also come out (besides Small) and wished Carlo good luck on Instagram, or Twitter because people were moaning about it.
David Pearl
664 Posted 03/06/2021 at 22:01:37
Jay, l think the players have a right be angry and let down with Carlo as much as the fans. It was ever so easy to pinpoint what player was a Brands and what was a Carlo choice. 2 distinct ways of thinking right there. I'm glad he went so quickly as it hopefully gives the new manager along with Brands a few weeks to get down to the business of scouring the earth to find a home for lwobi. Amongst other things
John Cartwright
665 Posted 03/06/2021 at 22:01:47
I am wondering why, as reported by Jay, no player has wished Carlo "Good luck"
Neil Tyrrell
666 Posted 03/06/2021 at 22:07:01
Hi all, been reading this site for a few years and just registered today. Grew up in West Derby/Nogsy and moved to the Toronto area in 1979, only Blue in a red family apart from one uncle. Yes I've taken some shit over the years, haven't we all?

I'll have more to say, but mainly signed up today to say thanks to Rob Halligan for his informative behind the scenes post, I don't doubt any of it. Reassuring to read that Brands could be so passionate, hopefully he can find a few more players with some of that. Thank you Rob.

Bobby Thomas
667 Posted 03/06/2021 at 22:08:27
Dave Lynch #24

I think that's just about the biggest load of bollocks I've ever read.

Paul Tran
668 Posted 03/06/2021 at 22:10:48
I know plenty of Dutch people. Thoughful, polite, practical but if you push them hard enough, they give it you straight between the eyes in full detail. Then they calm down and carry on as before.

If Brands did that, it wouldn't surprise me one bit.

Barry Hesketh
669 Posted 03/06/2021 at 22:10:49
John @665
I think the majority of the players - unfortunately for us as Evertonians - made their feelings pretty clear in the final couple of months of the season? Inactions speak louder than words.

Neil Copeland
670 Posted 03/06/2021 at 22:11:12
For what it is worth I met Marcel Brands during the train journey to Southampton a couple of years ago. We had to change at Wolverhampton and I talked with him for a few minutes. He came across as a very likeable but no nonsense bloke who seemed to know exactly what he wanted. Given the circumstances that Rob’s post highlights it wouldnt surprise me at all if Brands had a torn a strip off the players.
Mike Gwyer
671 Posted 03/06/2021 at 22:13:58

Yeah, Iwobi. God fucking help us with that one.
Arsenal must of partied for weeks after selling him to us. It was a probably a given that they would give us the 3 points at the Emirates as part of the Iwobi deal, just that we couldn't score for fuck so they decided to gift us a goal. Fair play to them.

Rob. Cracking post.

Jay Wood
[BRZ]

672 Posted 03/06/2021 at 22:17:03
Paul @ 668.

I've worked and lived in Holland and still correspond with plenty of cloggies. They are as you say.

But it is one thing to be like that socially in a small group of people, spontaneously combusting, and another altogether when you are an executive (board member) as Brands is, call a meeting of your staff with the premeditated intention to lambast them in the terms used collectively and individually.

Just doesn't quite ring true to me as much as the scenario may appeal to the fan base.

Barry Hesketh
673 Posted 03/06/2021 at 22:22:58
Oh Dear, Rob, don't go on Twitter, where somebody has screengrabbed your post and one of the respondents has written 'Probably from a lying kopite'.

Iwobi

https://twitter.com/EvertonBlueArmy

Tom Bowers
674 Posted 03/06/2021 at 22:28:59
We don't have much choice. Ancellotti quitting after so short a stint could send a message to many potential successors that it won't be an easy task turning his club around.

On the other hand many guys looking for a well paid job regardless will jump at the chance.

Moyes is still the same manager we had who really did nothing and only the loan of Lingard who hit a rich vein of form made the Hammers a little better then they were.

Nuno. familiar with the Prem. and connections in Europe may be a good choice at the moment.

Colin Glassar
675 Posted 03/06/2021 at 22:34:53
Great reporting Rob. When you break a story, like I did with Lukaku and Delofeu signing, you have to expect a shit storm of cynicism and envy.

Some people think footballers are enclosed in a hermetically sealed bubble - rubbish!! They like to chat shit just like everyone else. So we’ll done Rob and keep us informed while protecting your source.

Soren Moyer
676 Posted 03/06/2021 at 22:40:24
Brian 567, Lol. You wonder what is all this hysteria about ffs?
Mike Gwyer
677 Posted 03/06/2021 at 22:47:10

Everton players have now got history and being honest, they consider themselves seriously good at getting rid of managers. Top fucking dogs.

Nuno... Yeah. Well, that will be a laugh, for about 3 months.

Chris Mason
678 Posted 03/06/2021 at 22:48:30
I don’t care about this fly on the wall shit it’s all a bit Bellefield Boy for me.

Frankly for £18m for 18 months work, he should be ashamed of himself for being responsible for some of the worst football Everton have played. And hiding James lack of motivation. Ancellotti was responsible for the team ethos, the tactics, the culture. So much for not being a magician - he’s landed himself the top job in football as a result.

Now that’s magic.

Rob Halligan
679 Posted 03/06/2021 at 22:52:29
Jay, I’ve just googled Andrews link on Ancelotti’s ex wife dying. Obviously that all makes sense about him getting right off after the City game. However, the “So Called” ( that’s what it is now) riot act by Brands originates from someone sat at the meeting. I’ve contacted my source to confirm, but I don’t see any reason as to why he would make it up? I think the bit about Ancelotti wanting to move to Madrid prior to anyone finding out about it is true though, as I’ve received another text message from a mate saying Carlo wanted out of Everton a week last Tuesday and had already made contact with Real Madrid.
Paul Tran
680 Posted 03/06/2021 at 22:58:02
Jay, I've worked with senior Dutch folk, they've done it to their own staff, as Brands did.

Haven't been on here for a while - how's your wife?

Rob Halligan
681 Posted 03/06/2021 at 23:07:18
Reply from my source says the riot act by Brands is true. The bit about Ancelotti getting right off after the City game appears to be crossed wires. I still can’t give any information about names etc, but if I told you all those involved, you would understand. This is very difficult to explain without giving names, connections, etc, so I think we best just leave it there. This is the reason why I couldn’t start a thread on this.

Morale of the story is……………”Don’t believe any fucker”

Kieran Kinsella
682 Posted 03/06/2021 at 23:11:54
Yeah Rob, Zidane leaving has been an open secret for weeks plus there are press reports RM were offering the job to others before he even left. So I think there’s every likelihood Carlo did too.

Also, doubters Rob didn’t give us a full transcript just the highlights. I doubt he walked in went off on Iwobi but I can believe that during a meeting with back and forth, excuses, finger pointing and rolled eyes from players that something could have prompted him to do that

Bobby Thomas
683 Posted 03/06/2021 at 23:14:46
Grant #662

Spot on. The dressing room is rotten to the core and contains some the biggest piss takers going. We need to worry about looking down, not up, as the new manager has a monumental job on his hands to change the culture. We are well on our way to being Sunderland. There is something seriously wrong in there. In Ancelotti, we've just had our Dick Advocat.

Please don't start to think that the players have every right to feel hard done by. This bunch of twats have heaped humiliation after humiliation upon the club in the last few years. They pull out performances like Sheff Utd and then decide to run about a bit against Wolves a few days later. When Richarlison scores and him and Mina are fucking pigeon dancing in front of fans. They were lucky someone didn't run on and chin them. I can't stand them. Any of them. And these twats are probably the main reason Ancelotti has bailed.

Jay Wood
[BRZ]

684 Posted 03/06/2021 at 23:15:19
As I said Rob, not doubting the integrity of yourself or your source. It just sounds so uncharacteristic of Brands and, I have to say given the fragile egos of footballers, a dangerous game to play as the summer transfer merry-go-round comes around.

Already agreed with you, given the timeline of his ex-wife's death and how that would have occupied Carlo's time last week, the wheels for a move to Real must have been in motion well before the City game, if not earlier.

It certainly changes my perception of the man. I don't know of him behaving like this at any other time in his career. What were the motivating circumstances of that - the realization that given the restraints that apply at Everton it would take longer than he was willing to commit, the desire to get back to a familiar environment he is more comfortable in, non-football matters as mentioned - who knows?

Paul, the missus is a diamond as just as hard and resilient. I simply don't know how she does what she does day after day as she does. Thanks for asking.

What about yourself? You've been silent and missing in recent months. Nothing health related, I hope. Or just hiding behind the sofa from Everton games?

Kieran Kinsella
685 Posted 03/06/2021 at 23:15:30
Also the Athletic ran a piece a few weeks ago saying players were puzzled as King did well in training but Carlo refused to play him
Dale Self
686 Posted 03/06/2021 at 23:16:00
Rob, beyond just saying it's believable and thanks, you have helped us all relieve that massive uncertainty cloud of how and why this happened. No need to explain whatever you think is best in that situation. Whether this is the final take or not, what you did here was very, very good.
Pete Jeffries
687 Posted 03/06/2021 at 23:19:26
Somehow cant see Brands having the final say

He's doing his job and he gets paid for it

He and the rest of them are paid basically by Moshiri and so it's him that will make the final decision here

Laurie Hartley
688 Posted 03/06/2021 at 23:22:16
Barry #543 - he got his own taxi;)

Colette 405 - I like your list

Rob - I seriously hope that your source was correct in saying Brands laid into the players. That gives me some hope. Actually when you look at Brands he does come across as having it in him.

My advice to Moshiri - put your trust in Brands and let him pick the next manager.

Rob Halligan
689 Posted 03/06/2021 at 23:28:33
Cheers Dale. Whatever happened behind the scenes, what I’ve said or something else, it clearly wasn’t just the “Pull” of Real Madrid that made Carlo leave. Didn’t he say only last week he had no interest in the job there? Anyway, my source assures me it’s all true.
Mike Gaynes
690 Posted 03/06/2021 at 23:29:23
Nice to see even the rare and special visitors Keith Harrison and Paul Tran weighing in on this thread. The events of the past 72 hours have certainly brought everybody out.

Rob #679, I had seen the story on Carlo's family loss also, and I assumed that was why he vamoosed after the City game. Such jarring events can also affect one's perspective on life, and who knows but that might have been a contributing factor to his decision. Not the process, perhaps, but the final decision.

Mike #659, Rob is young at heart.

Rob Young
691 Posted 03/06/2021 at 23:36:05
Whatever Brands did or did not say to the players is irrelevant.

This is the man who keeps saying how well our 'project' is going and how we need only a couple new players to compete.

This is the man who had no back up for Zou a not returning and send us into that season shockingly short on centre backs.
Did he learn?
Not at all, this season we only had 2 strikers.

Where are our wingers? When will we actually sign one that can cross the ball?
Brands thinks well be fine as Anthony Gorden will be available again.
That's the same Anthony Gorden that couldn't stay in the Preston North End team.

He gets talked up here for supposedly laying into the players, many if which he brought in, yet this is the man that watches the same site we have to watch yet keeps telling the world our fck 'project' is going great!

Rob Halligan
692 Posted 03/06/2021 at 23:37:04
Mike, I just think the job got the better of him. He’s used to walking into clubs full of quality established international players with just a minor tweak here and there. This was a full blown major overhaul required, and he probably felt it too much. Shame, as I really think, given time, he could have done something with us.
Soren Moyer
693 Posted 03/06/2021 at 23:42:57
"Journalist angered by Carlo Ancelotti social media post after Everton exit".
Well said. Link
Chris Mason
694 Posted 03/06/2021 at 23:46:21
Rob I don’t think that’s altogether right. We could have finished in Europe and he’d have still gone to Madrid. All this shows me is that we keep hiring badly - too much about how ‘big’ the manager is rather than what we actually need. The fact is he failed at his job, not that the job was too big for him.

In fact, we don’t need a Hollywood manager - we need a Moyes mk2, as in the early years of Moyes. An article in the Athletic summed it up well. That kind of manager suits the club’s culture and standing.

Ian Horan
695 Posted 03/06/2021 at 23:52:10
The Ancelotti to RM only started last weekend as RM had approached Mourinho who informed them he was legally contracted to Roma.

Ancelottis body language has been downbeat since the Sheff Utd game, to me it appeared a lightbulb moment Carlo finally accepting the squad was not fit for purpose. The Richi v Holgate has been bubbling along for a while so that seems reasonable. Could Carlo offered a list of experienced players he wants then Brands pushed back on 5his flying against his strategy and finally maybe missing Europe had impacted on the transfer budget. Could Carlo of gone fuck this I aint having another season dragging my reputation down. Or coincidence Garth Bales interview after Spurs last game, if I say whats happening next season it would cause total chaos...

Chris Mason
696 Posted 03/06/2021 at 23:57:59
Holgate - there’s an over rated player
Rob Halligan
697 Posted 03/06/2021 at 00:04:14
Well, according to the daily star ( I know,I know, don’t believe them) we are about to offer Nuno a three year contract. Go get Raul Jiminez, Neto and Neves if true.

Also Football Insider (what is that?) saying Real Madrid want Richarlison. Screw them for at least £100M. Is he worth that, well not based on most of his performances this season, but he still has three years on his contract and Madrid are skint. Player plus cash exchange maybe? Do Madrid have any decent players under the age of 25 that Carlo doesn’t want?

Keith Harrison
698 Posted 03/06/2021 at 00:07:33
Mike (690). took early retirement last week after 42 and a bit years, so came on ToffeeWeb as a treat!!

Wonder if my ex assistant got all the office staff in and bollocked them this week??

We'll find out in the next episode of Soap (for the older readers!!)

Hope you're in rude health mate, and a happy summer holiday to all.

Frank Thomas
699 Posted 03/06/2021 at 00:25:05
We have all been to interviews what questions would you ask a potential Everton Manager?

Why do you want to be our manager? what was your best game in your last managerial position? and your worst ? why? Where do you think you could take us to in the next season. How can you achieve that?
What players do you need urgently for next season? Are you attack minded or defensive? why?

Where do you prefer to source players from? abroad. lower divisions or past clubs? Why? What do you look for in a new player?
What key assets do you look for in current players why?

What is the most important factor in a player, never giving up, positional awareness and awareness of other players, fitness, skill or desire to win. If not these what attributes do you think a player should have?

What went wrong in your last job? what did you learn from the last job?

All of these questions seem trivial but I think are important for any manager at any level to answer. This would be reflected in the type of football the club and fans will be presented with. It would also increase the knowledge of our interviewers.

My choice would be an attack minded manager who has a strong number 2. Who is prepared to drop players when they play badly and give opportunities to younger keen players. Moyes fits that mould but after his deceitful lies I will stay if EFC gets into Europe and then proceeds to lead us to a series of totally unexpected losses then the truth comes out as he is the next Man Utd manager how could we trust him again?

Nuno has lost it, third season more defence less attack syndrome seen it in Howe even Moyes got it when he was with us. Conte in a no go and sadly so is Duncan. However I have admit that Rafa would get us into Europe and have us playing much better football. The German chap would also be interesting but they need to answer the above questions.

Derek Thomas
700 Posted 04/06/2021 at 00:51:00
It will be a trade off...it always is, between who will come and who we don't think we want.
Whoever it is - its a gamble.
But jeez, we need to get something right, we can't go on being the club that consistently puts the 'fuck' in 'fuckup' and the 'laugh' in 'laughing stock'
Simon Crosbie
701 Posted 04/06/2021 at 01:02:35
Stodge.

We need flair, talent, ideas. We need what Bielsa has done for Leeds. We need to look outside ourselves. We need a manager capable of bringing in real talent.

Gary Hughes
702 Posted 04/06/2021 at 01:07:41
We need a madman like Bielsa, someone who will run this shower of shite into the ground, then run them some more until they're fittest most hard working team in the league. After that we can concentrate on the basics like controlling and passing a football.
Pete Clarke
703 Posted 04/06/2021 at 01:26:03
This club of ours is in need of a good shake up. It should have happened when Moshiri took over but he seems to have been lured into some strange deal that leaves the biggest problem in place and until he sorts this out then we are always going to be run badly. Maybe he leaves the teary eyed one in place because he needs his guidance which sends shivers down my spine.
It is clear that the managers we have chosen have come from all angles of experience and it has not worked. We are such an easy touch for any future players and managers to treat us however they want which has been shown by the lack of leadership on the pitch ( Coleman and Digney apart ) and also by Moyes, Koeman and now Ancelotti who have basically showed how irrelevant we are as a club. The way these managers treated us show that the people who run out club are inept and lacking ruthlessness.
So we carry on doing what we have now done for 20 plus years and hope that our luck changes.
All talk of Rafa, Gerrard, Moyes etc would make me sick if it happened. Big Sam was hard enough to swallow so hopefully there’s a lot more thought into who we appoint as the new manager. We need somebody who is tactical aware and can motivate. A leader from the training ground to the touch line.
Maybe it is time for Duncan Ferguson to be given a go. I’m certainly not 100% for it as we don’t know his capabilities and it is a gamble but haven’t we been doing that all along ?
Very pissed of Blue.


Bill Watson
704 Posted 04/06/2021 at 01:48:40
None of the touted 'candidates' impress me.
The fact that one has, allegedly, had talks with Crystal Palace says it all.

However, my biggest fear is that Ancelotti will try to tempt Iwobi, Bernard and Delph to join him at Real.

Oh...wait a minute!

Mike Gaynes
705 Posted 04/06/2021 at 02:00:55
Keith #698, Mazel Tov on your retirement! Please extend my deepest condolences to Christine for having you underfoot all the time. Let's visit soon.

Don Alexander
706 Posted 04/06/2021 at 02:34:48
Talk of any manager being able to galvanize our present players into new heights is absurd.

People proposing Ferguson as the next boss need to realise that managers "grabbing a player by the throat" is at least 30 years out of date, as well as being criminally illegal.

Managers hoping to achieve success for their owners need their owners to financially back them, to the enth degree unless, as Leicester did a few years back, you one year get ultra lucky by ending up with a squad with a winning attitude that would've prevailed in any age.

Ranieri may have inspired them, or maybe it was Pearson before him (it sure as hell wasn't Walsh, the one Mosh chose to sign up) but, by whoever it was, a winning, fuck-em, culture was created there and still bests us five years later.

Godfrey, Coleman, Pickford, Digne and DCL would be massively improved in such a culture, as would the whole club as a consequence. Many other psuedo players would have to depart of course, expensively to us given the obvious five-years-long ineptitude of the Everton owner and board who signed them.

Stumbling onto a manager to do it is in my opinion hopeless whilst the owner and all but one of the boardroom, maybe, still has anything to do with his appointment.

Danny Baily
707 Posted 04/06/2021 at 08:03:11
I love Dunc but making him manager on a permanent basis would end in tears. Besides, every club needs an interim manager on standby.

We can learn lessons from Chelsea. An inexperienced manager was taking them to 8th place and the Europa conference league. A top manager took them to the champions league title.

David Currie
708 Posted 04/06/2021 at 08:17:10
Ancelotti says ' We had a good season as we were fighting for Europe up until the last game'.
We finished 10th? He failed why not take some responsibility and say I and my team let the big chance of Europe slip. Soren 693, Thanks for the link and just about sums him up- NO CLASS!
Glad he has left as he did not have the fight, he has to beat 9 teams to get first or go to Spain and beat 2 teams to get first.
Iain Latchford
709 Posted 04/06/2021 at 08:20:26
Why isn't Galtier figuring more in these discussions? He's looks a good fit to me, and is also without a club.

Has previously finished runner up, and now won the League in France. Some achievement considering how much PSG outspend everyone, and the players they have.

From Wiki :

Galtier was praised by many pundits over the course of the season for both his tactics and his ability to develop young talent including Jonathan David, Renato Sanches, and Mike Maignan. For his efforts, Galtier was named the Ligue 1 Manager of the Year for a third time. On 25 May 2021, Galtier resigned as manager, two days after winning the league. He stated: "I simply have the deep belief that my time is up here."

Paul Tran
710 Posted 04/06/2021 at 08:35:40
Jay #684, that's great to hear! I've been fit and well, thanks, very busy with work, increasingly frightened/annoyed watching the Blues. Was getting too wound up too often on here and thought it a good idea to take a break.
Danny O’Neill
711 Posted 04/06/2021 at 08:37:55
With the right players Danny Baily.

Chelsea pulled a masterstroke as soon as Tuchel became available. Lampard or Chelsea's equivalent of Brands put the right players in place. But Lamaprd couldn't organise them to get the most out of them. No criticism, just too early in his coaching career. I hope he goes on to do well. I like Lampard.

We had a renowned and experienced coach but average players. Opposite ends of the spectrum, but ultimately its mostly about the players you have.

First and foremost, we need better players than what we have now.

Rob Young
712 Posted 04/06/2021 at 08:45:04
I recall our neighbors playing mind numbing football under Benitez. Newcastle United wouldn't even try to get out of their own half against any top team under Benitez.
We've just suffered dire football under Ancefuckoffi, Alardyce and even Koeman was too scared to go forward (remember Spurs away).

Like someone else said in one of these topics, I would like to be entertained again.
If we're not going to win any silverware, let's face it, can we please just try to have a go every week.

Andy Walker
713 Posted 04/06/2021 at 08:49:00
I don’t think Nuno would be even on the shortlist if he was under contract elsewhere. He just happens to be out of work, so that apparently may make him the right fit for our manager position.

Pathetic thinking if true, Moshiri.

Gary Willock
714 Posted 04/06/2021 at 08:54:52
Information like Rob has kindly shared - whether 100% truth or not - certainly gets you thinking about whether the DoF model is working.

Koeman and Walsh’s “4 number 10’s” was technicolour proof of an issue, and my fear is that we’ve had similar issues under Don Fat head and brands too. Refusal to give King, Nkounkou (when Digne was out), Gordon, etc. any real time could well be based on their ability or defects, but it could equally have been because Carlo was beating his chest too.

Why take this risk?

We either give Brands absolute FULL control of player recruitment (in which case coaching is what we need in any manager now), or we move him out the way completely (or perhaps to just u23 tsar) and give the new manager a clear run for their own players (perhaps with some rules around player RoI and age).

I can’t see Marcel getting the bullet at the moment, so for the next manager we need someone whose happy to coach and set tactics. Not sure who on the list meets that criteria most, but if it’s young players who we want to bet on, I think it’s big Duncan who’ll do it best.

Yes, he’s a tough man, but anyone who thinks he’s a “hand on the throat” manager hasn’t listened to a lot of the young lads who’ve come through around him. The big fella has a big heart too.

For me, this is the model. There’s plenty of top class “coaches” about to add anything he’s missing, but with people like Baines and Cahill coming through (with maybe Seamus getting more involved too) I think that’s a good team. Get Jags back in to help with defence too, or maybe Phil Neville back as a number 2.

I know people are going to attack this as “more Everton, from a long line of Everton failures, is not the answer” and I get it. But, it’s an IDENTITY, and instead of having that around the fringes (which we will anyway) why not bring it out the closet and accept that we are Everton. Embrace our Identity with pride! Use it!

Compared to mercenaries like Koeman, Allardyce and Don Fat head, or good hearted dreamers like Bobby and Marco, let’s just be Everton. The PEOPLES club. A family. Even if it doesn’t put us at the top table, it’s a way of finding pride again.

COYB.

Tony Abrahams
715 Posted 04/06/2021 at 08:58:26
Imagine being Marcel Brands, and having to constantly listen to Carlo Ancellotti, privately slating the players at the club?

Let’s have it right, Carlo Ancellotti, rarely tells the truth in his interviews when talking about his players (nothing wrong with this) and listening to what Michael Keane said after phoning Southgate, he also probably never told many of his players the truth?

So Brands has probably had to listen to the manager moaning about the players, and it wouldn’t surprise me if the “man in the middle” decided to tell the players what Ancellotti, really thought about them once he knew he wasn’t coming back?

A lot of “probably’s” in my post, but in the world of professional football, I’d say this is definitely feasible, because it’s much easier giving home truths by using what someone else has said, and people also tend to listen (rather than argue right back) because they usually want to know what that c**t really thought about them, especially if he hadn’t said it to them himself!?

Marc Hints
716 Posted 04/06/2021 at 09:14:25
Thank the lord, David Moyes has signed a three year agreement with West Ham!
Shaun Laycock
717 Posted 04/06/2021 at 09:17:52
Identity is key. Did any of Cahill, Blaine's, Jags, Neville not give 100%. You can't import an identity, you have to build it. They will all be highly qualified. I think a young coach (Lampard) with an experienced no2 could work.
The identity should be buy young & hungry players (with an experienced core), use the academy too, pace in the team, fit, fit, fit with a never say die attitude.
Iain Latchford
718 Posted 04/06/2021 at 09:18:14
Unfortunately I've not seen any confirmation that Moyes has signed a new contract. He'll be sitting tight with all this going on I'm sure.
Ray Robinson
719 Posted 04/06/2021 at 09:23:35
Ferguson as our manager to help put a rocket up the players? Is this the same Ferguson who could only motivate himself for big matches? Or get sent off in vital matches when his team needed him?
Kevin Prytherch
720 Posted 04/06/2021 at 09:24:51
Gary 714 - spot on. People will point to Ferguson’s inexperience and point to other failings, but every manager has started somewhere and non of them had any experience in their first appointment.

Pep Guardiola was managing, in effect, Barcelona’s U23’s (albeit with a more competitive element) before taking the Barcelona job.

Anthony Murphy
721 Posted 04/06/2021 at 09:35:24
I’ve advocated for Rangnick but if he’s more of a DoF than manager then maybe giving Dunc a shot is the way to go as Gary and others suggest. We need someone who can unite us and inject an energy around the place. He would be the polar opposite of Koeman and Ancelotti types and that’s what this club really requires. Every appointment is a risk and if we can’t get in the sort of manager we really would like right now, let’s see how he gets on. If we can bring in a couple of excellent coaches, and let Brands work on the transfers we could have our solution. We could look to the likes of Alan Irvine or Lee Carsley to coach the players or someone like Steve Clarke whose hugely underrated and a decent coach with fantastic experience. I would be quite excited by that and I can’t see how most of those currently being touted would offer something better. Would any of those average so and so’s mentioned truly give a shit like this lad does as witnessed here

https://twitter.com/btsportfootball/status/1208393761715359745?s=21

Laurie Hartley
722 Posted 04/06/2021 at 09:37:26
Gary Hughes # 702 - “We need a madman like Bielsa,”. Cheered me up that comment. I agree and hope that any such madman brings a couple of mad players with him. Our lot need a fire lit under them.
Andy Duff
723 Posted 04/06/2021 at 09:40:12
Long time reader very seldom poster,
I have read the 1000s of posts on this topic on the 3 threads.

What is abundantly clear is as fans we cannot agree so I don't envy the club.

My take on this is Ferguson should be given the chance. I currently sit a few seats away from the home dug out. Close enough that you can hear the managers from the sidelines.

I moved there when we had Silva and have witnessed all the managers we have had recently at very close quarters. The most animated I ever saw was Dunc. An example one game MIna was having a Bambi on ice game. Next thing you hear Leighton... Have a word with Yerry will you wee man. He was shouting encouragement to the players and telling them where they were wrong. We all saw the ball boys being hugged when we scored. You cannot buy that passion he is blue through and through and cares.

18 months ago he even said himself he is not ready, he now thinks he is. The fact he cared enough to rule himself out last time speaks volumes.

Reading Rob's post it is clear the manager and DOF need to be on the same page we don't want managers refusing to play players that they didn't sign or another manager only there for the money.

Dunc would work with the players, he would work with Brands, he bleeds blue. It really is his time. As has been alluded to many times we have tried up and coming, great ex footballers, big name done everything, fire fighters, time for a person who cares about Everton. I also think we will see a lot more youth promoted this way. Look at who Dunc played last time. Our under 23s have won the league in the past. we do have quality players but they are for the most part blocked from the first team. Look at Carlo why put two keepers on the bench?

This is not sentimental it is looking at where we are and what we need. We have lost our identity we need it back. For me Dunc needs to be given the chance

Gary Willock
724 Posted 04/06/2021 at 09:41:29
Thanks Kevin.

The big man has been learning for years under plenty of good people (current coaches of Madrid, Barca and the number one international side). Yes, he hasn’t had experience of managing directly, but it’s hardly like we’re suggesting giving the waterboy a go here. Arteta doing alright at Arsenal so far.

Think over the last few years, we’ve become ashamed of being Everton. Many of the “fans” dismiss anyone who’s had anything to do with the Bill era as ‘tainted lepers’. We’re ashamed of our recent history, and losing the grand team tag in a race to be another modern “continental” also ran.

Let’s differentiate ourselves again by embracing being Everton again. Fortress Goodison, and any team that plays us knowing they are getting a fight. We have plenty of ex-players who could form an amazing management TEAM together. Worth a go, at least until we’ve built a platform where the superstar managers are going to WANT to come and WANT to stay.

Gary Willock
725 Posted 04/06/2021 at 09:41:30
Thanks Kevin.

The big man has been learning for years under plenty of good people (current coaches of Madrid, Barca and the number one international side). Yes, he hasn’t had experience of managing directly, but it’s hardly like we’re suggesting giving the waterboy a go here. Arteta doing alright at Arsenal so far.

Think over the last few years, we’ve become ashamed of being Everton. Many of the “fans” dismiss anyone who’s had anything to do with the Bill era as ‘tainted lepers’. We’re ashamed of our recent history, and losing the grand team tag in a race to be another modern “continental” also ran.

Let’s differentiate ourselves again by embracing being Everton again. Fortress Goodison, and any team that plays us knowing they are getting a fight. We have plenty of ex-players who could form an amazing management TEAM together. Worth a go, at least until we’ve built a platform where the superstar managers are going to WANT to come and WANT to stay.

Danny O’Neill
726 Posted 04/06/2021 at 09:43:25
He mostly disappointed as a player in my opinion Ray. He gave us some great moments, but he never done it enough or consistently. For every Derby goal and Manchester United moment, there was a Charlton away one when his unquestioned passion got the better of him and he got sent off for being stupid. He never fulfilled his potential as a player. I hate myself for saying this, but it's probably why he ended up back at Everton.

Passion and commitment are vital aspects of football or any sport. Ask the boxers on here amongst us. But it has to be channeled and controlled, otherwise you eventually end up losing your head and you are no use to anyone once the head has gone.

Duncan was like that as a player. He could well be like that as a manager.

Dave Abrahams
727 Posted 04/06/2021 at 10:00:31
Well Duncan has been part of the coaching staff under quite a few managers so he has plenty of experience in knowing NOT what to do, has he the knowledge to become a winning manager at Everton, in the position we are in I wouldn’t take the chance to be honest.
Danny O’Neill
728 Posted 04/06/2021 at 10:00:33
Ooof. Just read Tottenham will allegedly pay Conte £15m a year.

Guess we're not going there considering how some baulked at the £11m a year Carlo was on.

I suppose having just won a major league title, and a fairly recent Premier League one, his bargaining position is strong.

13th place ex Wolves manager, unproven ex-player or back to the past seem to be the options.

Apologies. I'm being particularly facetious this morning. Just in one of those moods and mean no offence.

On a more serious note, given what looks like what is on the table, the Nuno option seems to be the most likely and most sensible. Unless Everton can surprise me. And they have done that most of my life, so the hope won't completely go away.

Barry Hesketh
729 Posted 04/06/2021 at 10:02:48
This made me chuckle, from one of those click-bait-type sites.

Sarri’s time at Stamford Bridge ended on a sour note, largely thanks to his negative style of football, and that would only leave the Everton fanbase fuming after witnessing an attractive and expansive system under Ancelotti.

Tony Abrahams
730 Posted 04/06/2021 at 10:08:22
I think we would have found out a lot more about Duncan Ferguson if Ancellotti, hadn’t come into Everton, for that Christmas period, because after Duncan’s initial period in charge the players looked shattered, so it would have been really interesting to see how he would have responded to this.
Ian Edwards
731 Posted 04/06/2021 at 10:10:59
Claudio Ranieri the latest name in the media. Club certainly keeping their cards close to their chest.
Danny O’Neill
732 Posted 04/06/2021 at 10:15:19
Keeping their cards close to their chest because they are actually giving this some serious thought Ian and not listening to the obvious media rumours, Bill Kenwright or us lot rambling on here because we haven't been eating or sleeping since the weekend!!!

Then again. It's Everton. They'll spend days not saying anything and announce the blinding obvious that everyone thought anyway!

Conor McCourt
733 Posted 04/06/2021 at 10:19:34
Tony "imagine Brands having to constantly listening to Carlo privately slate the players at the club".

If that were the case Brands' reply should have been that Marco Silva's front four that played the most minutes the season we finished eighth was
Bernard
Siggy
Richarlison
Walcott

Mr Ancelotti's that finished tenth
Calvert Lewin
Richarlison
James
Siggy

Talk sport did a net spend transfer piece last summer and although I'm sure the figures aren't entirely accurate they had us third in the list with only Chelsea and Leeds have a greater total net outlay. Unlike Silva he was given the tools to do the job and even had the transfer strategy reversed to appease him.

Martin Nicholls
734 Posted 04/06/2021 at 10:24:01
We here on TW seem to be working on the premise that only managers who are currently unemployed are available. That patently is not correct as Real have shown us this week.
A manager who is employed, doing well and who we could get is Unai Emery - I've wanted him in the past and still do. He works well with a DoF, knows how to win trophies and has something to prove in PL, whilst at the same time having experience of it. Having cut his PL teeth at Arsenal, we could be the beneficiaries of that experience.
Danny O’Neill
735 Posted 04/06/2021 at 10:28:22
I wouldn't say given the tools Conor. Given the funds? Yes, as have previous managers.

I've always said, even back in the Moyes days when we were looking for the Arteta money down the back of the couch, it's not what you spend, it's how you spend and who you spend it on.

Unless you can do a City or Chelsea and simply buy the best players, you have to be clever. There has been good examples that we've discussed here and elsewhere. Liverpool, Leicester and RB Leipzig in Germany who simply can't compete for the big names with Bayern.

Everton has been reckless and scattergun in the transfer market, although I maintain, last summer's acquisitions looked like we finally had started to focus on bringing in a combination of experienced proven players and young potential. Another repeat of that for me this summer.

Robert Williams
736 Posted 04/06/2021 at 10:30:43
In view of the recent managerial comings and goings at Everton I do not think any manager should have more than a two year contract with an option to renew if deemed successful. Same applies to the players that way we should not have any deadwood hanging on for up to five years with no sell on value.
They do it in agricultural, it's called crop rotation. In agriculture they also spread plenty of shite on their fields, not unlike Everton really. It is a tried and tested system the only difference being that their shite is homegrown unlike the imported stuff Everton liberally muck-spread around Goodison.
Tony Abrahams
737 Posted 04/06/2021 at 10:32:08
It’s all hearsay Conor, but if you think that, maybe Brands also thought the same way, Except the front four bit obviously?

Talk-sport did a net spend, would only show me one thing Conor, and that is how much money Everton have been wasting for years.

Ian Jones
738 Posted 04/06/2021 at 10:33:52
Hi Andy @ 723

Your thoughts largely mirror mine. Re Duncan admitting not being ready. I wonder how much of him saying that was down to him perhaps knowing that Carlo Ancelotti had been approached, so he stepped back knowing there was no chance. Can't recall the timing.
However, if there had been other managers he was going up against, his thoughts might be different which brings us to now...

I'm all for giving him his opportunity now. We'll never know if he is able to manage/coach a team but he'll give his all...and won't suffer fools etc

As some on here have said, any manager is a gamble. I think I prefer taking a chance on bringing through youth mixed with seasoned professionals which takes time as opposed to just going out buying older, more experienced players and hoping they gel enough to be successful.

As a club, someone needs to decide what the identity is to be going forward, and take it from there...easy

Robert Tressell
739 Posted 04/06/2021 at 10:35:33
We were 5th in net spend last year behind Villa, Chelsea, Leeds, City and Spurs. £63m.

Interesting figures also include RS (£35m), Leicester (£4m) and WHU (£8.5m). It highlights the importance of generating significant sums from departures to enable sustainable (and very productive) spending.

Tony McNulty
740 Posted 04/06/2021 at 10:36:34
I have concluded that someone decided that the model for us was going to be Chelsea.

We kept their managerial turnover, constant rumours and turmoil. The only element we decided not to copy was their success.

Strange how things don't work out as you wish: we spent years looking for a rich owner prepared to put money into the club. When it finally happened, a succession of people just pissed most of his money up against the wall.

Ah well. Onward and upwards.

Anthony Jones
741 Posted 04/06/2021 at 10:36:58
A German manager will do.

No more Portuguese or Italians for a while.

Gavin Johnson
742 Posted 04/06/2021 at 10:39:34
Quite a few people are calling for Rangnick but I would say that boats sailed. By all accounts he want's the Germany national job when it comes up later this summer.
John Kavanagh
743 Posted 04/06/2021 at 10:45:32
Those who are saying we can't afford to risk Dunc on a permanent basis are assuming we offer a three year contract. We don't need to. All Brands needs to do is offer him the opportunity to manage until mid-November and then review the situation.

If Dunc is failing, then make a permanent appointment in time to recover the situation. If he makes a go of it, then issue a contract as his deserved reward for being a magician. By November possibly better managerial options might become available than are apparent now. Sorted.

This will make us no worse off than if Carlo had stayed, where we would probably have been looking at a sacking costing us £20 million if the recent performances rolled over into next season as I fear they would have.

Danny O’Neill
744 Posted 04/06/2021 at 10:46:48
German national job has gone Gavin. The RB Leipzig coach, Nagelsmann, has gone to Bayern to replace the current Bayern coach, Flick, who will take over the national team.

I do agree with the ship has sailed view though. As much as I'd love Rangnick, as I've repeatedly said, he's already in a very senior position (DoF) at what is currently an established top 4 Champions League club. He manages managers and makes decisions at club level not just the first team. Exactly what we need.

Lets say hypothetically he was offered and accepted Everton. I then see conflict with Brands. And for that reason, assuming Brands is key to selecting the next manager, I don't see him going down that route as he'd be bringing someone in who will challenge his own position.

I'd take him tomorrow, but I don't think he'd accept my call even if I spoke in my rusty German!!

Marc Hints
745 Posted 04/06/2021 at 10:50:45
It really winds me up when seeing reports coming out.

Players said to be gutted and disappointed:

Why would the players be gutted? They weren't exactly playing for him, it was complete dire football and players looked they could not be bothered most games

Some big name players now contemplate their future:

There aren't any big name players at Everton they are bottlers!

Barry Hesketh
746 Posted 04/06/2021 at 10:50:55
It looks as if the transfer fees are not as important as the salaries when it comes to what to expect regarding finishing positions. Leeds has done remarkably well and Everton is slightly below where you'd expect us to be.

1 Manchester City £220m K. De Bruyne (£320,000)
2 Manchester United £205.4m D. Dea Gea (£300,000)
3 Liverpool £190m M. Salah (£260,000)
4 Chelsea £186.7m Timo Werner (£240,000)
5 Arsenal £175m P.E Aubamyang (£320,000)
6 Tottenham £151.5m Harry Kane (£260,000)
7 Everton £114m James Rodriguez (£160,000)
8 Leicester City £86.2m Jamie Vardy (£200,000)
9 West Ham £79.8m Andriy Yarmolenko (£115,000)
11 Wolverhampton £75.9m Jose Moutinho (£100,000)
10 Southampton £75.9m Danny Ings (£75,000)
12 Crystal Palace £63.3m Wilfried Zaha (£130,000)
13 Newcastle United £63m Joelinton (£80,000)
14 Aston Villa £55.7m Jack Grealish (£120,000)
15 Fulham £51.2m Alphonse Areola (£85,000)
18 West Brom £45.6m Kieran Gibbs (£55,000)
19 Brighton £43m Adam Lallana (£80,000)
17 Burnley £39m Ben Mee (£55,000)
16 Leeds United £31.4m Rodrigo Machado (£57,500)
20 Sheffield United £28.6m Phil Jagielka (£51,000)

2021 Salaries

Mark Andrews
747 Posted 04/06/2021 at 10:56:04
Nuno is a no-no. Mind you, he'd fit right in with our bang average, ambition free club.
Robert Tressell
748 Posted 04/06/2021 at 10:57:44
If Rangnick were to come to Everton he would say - stop being so Everton and start being more Leipzig. Treat the transfer market like any other commodities market, buy cheap and sell high. Don't buy anyone over age 22 and spend no more than about £20m on each transfer. Generate more funds for reinvestment from inevitable departures and fill positions for the long term rather than constant upheaval.

He would say focus on building a quality squad this way rather fixating on who the coach is from time to time. With a quality squad we might find our managers, by weird coincidence, start to become more successful.

Winston Williamson
749 Posted 04/06/2021 at 10:58:50
After having calmed down, weighed the options, I’m in the mind frame of giving Duncan Ferguson the chance to manage the club.

If he could be appointed without much fanfare, under the radar so to speak, this may take some of the pressure off.

I feel he’ll set standards high. He’ll demand commitment and won’t suffer fools. He seems to have the support of the core younger players. His style in the three games he managed was more ‘Everton’ than anyone I’ve seen since Joe R.

He won’t have any player-pulling-power for signings initially, but we have Brands and his penchant for signing younger players would suit Ferguson.

He’s played a role in developing players already, so we can expect more of the same, plus he’s humble enough to know his limitations so should appoint staff members to cover his weaknesses.

Contrary to popular anti-sentimentality on these threads, I’d love to see a first team coaching staff consisting of:

Duncan Ferguson
Tim Cahill
Leighton Baines
Seamus Coleman

All four know and love our club. The only concern I have is that shyster of a chairman and his influence on staff

Jack Convery
750 Posted 04/06/2021 at 10:59:52
Its Friday and 4 days since the biggest mountain of shit hit the best fans in the world. I have to say in no uncertain terms that this is the worst I have ever felt in 60 plus years as an Evertonian. Shell shocked, Bereft. The spirit of my club is on its back and the light within its soul is getting more faint by the minute and those in attendance appear to be fighting amongst themselves instead of working together to restore the light and give it the will to fight and survive. I fear for my club like I have never feared before.

I know that it is irrational but following Everton does this to you.

Danny O’Neill
751 Posted 04/06/2021 at 11:04:02
The dreamer in me hopes Moshiri (or at least his advisors) read these pages and comments like yours Robert.

The more I think, the more that is what I want. Rangnick.

I don't for one minute think it will happen, but we all like to think, give opinion and have hope.

The only way I see it (in my view), is Brands steps up to replace Kenwright at board level and we bring in a more junior head coach as understudy. So a shuffle at the top and almost a double appointment on the coaching staff.

I apologised earlier and will do so again. I said my head is all over the place this morning. And it is definitely Everton's fault!! Hopefully there is some rationale in that.

Martin Krogh
752 Posted 04/06/2021 at 11:15:20
Why not hire the best female coach in the world, Sarina Wiegman, I stead of recycling shit, male coaches whose only merit is that they have played football in younger years. Sarina is FIFA Coach of the year for two years running. Unfortunately, she is of the wrong sex.
Barry Hesketh
753 Posted 04/06/2021 at 11:25:18
Phil McNulty Tweeted:

Everton chairman Bill Kenwright said earlier this year: "One very famous football club said to me two or three days ago 'whenever we have a problem we say 'what would the Everton board do because they always get it right?'" Big pressure to do that now after Ancelotti departure.
Brian Williams
754 Posted 04/06/2021 at 11:26:41
I have absolutely NO idea which manager I'd want or which manager would suit.
It's fair to say we've had a fair variety of managers and types of managers in our recent history.
In fact, including temporary or stand-ins we've had EIGHT different people since 2013.

EIGHT different people who've been unable to achieve sustained improvement.

With this in mind it's actually futile, AND soul destroying, to wish for this guy or that guy and NOT that guy or that other guy.

Bottom line is that whoever we get is just as likely to succeed or just as likely to fail as the next guy.

Previous experience and/or winning titles and cups has turned out to mean sweet FA.

Lack of winnings titles or cups has basically turned out more or less the same.

So, if you can, save your sanity and avoid the stress and try to just wait and see, and wait who gets the job and see what he/she can do.

Whoever it may be starts with a clean slate in my book because he may turn out to be our saviour or he could just be another name on an ever growing list of people who couldn't do it.

There's NO way of knowing.

Robert Tressell
755 Posted 04/06/2021 at 11:30:09
Danny, we've already got a Ragnick in Brands. We just need to let him do the job he was hired for and for Moshiri and a few short termist managers to stop interfering.
Marc Hints
756 Posted 04/06/2021 at 11:31:22
Brian @754

I like Ralf Rangnick Brian but not sure after that. I do think Everton need to take a step back and also look at the credentials of a person, we need someone who is not high profile but will love the club and fans, that brings passion and commitment and ultimately success.

Danny O’Neill
757 Posted 04/06/2021 at 11:36:05
That's a pretty true statement Robert.

Let Brands do the job he was brought into do and give him control.

The coach (coach not manager) can then deal with the players he has. But we need better players.

I know it's Friday but its not even midday and I'm looking at the beer fridge. Everton are like the girlfriend who cheats on you but you always go back for more.

Dave Abrahams
758 Posted 04/06/2021 at 11:43:17
Barry (753) Like Johnson and Trump, Kenwright is a proven liar and makes them as he goes along, as I’m sure you know.

Robert (755), I don’t think Brands, who I like and want to stay, has ever managed a club, Rangnick has and very successfully, I don’t know if they, Brands and Rangnick, would gel together but they both know the workings of football clubs from the youth to the top of the tier football, both have an eye for a player and Rangnick has had his teams in top physical condition to play a pressing game, which other managers, including Klopp, have followed. I don’t think it will happen but would love to see that pair given the chance.

Joe McMahon
759 Posted 04/06/2021 at 11:44:16
Looking at the above posts RE wages in England, Leicester have been incredibly well run. 2 trophies in 5 years, new stadium and a respected and good manager.

I've got to the stage now I don't know who I want at Everton.

Unfortunately decorated managers aren't a good fit for EFC as much as I'd like Conte, we ain't even Arsenal or Spurs. That's why we had Moyes for 11 years with no success. The squad is mainly dreadful. Rafa was correct we are not a big club and haven't been for decades, we haven't played even in group stages of CL.

It's underwhelming but my vote is Ferguson on a rolling contract.

Alan Johnson
760 Posted 04/06/2021 at 11:52:55
Barry #753. That's sums it up then. The man is so much up his own arse 🙁
Thomas Richards
762 Posted 04/06/2021 at 11:54:44
Blue Bill When asked for the name of the club.

"Dahling, you cant expect me to remeber everything"

Danny O’Neill
763 Posted 04/06/2021 at 11:59:35
Dave Abrahams (758). Those 2 together would be a Dream Team. If only we could pull that off.

They would fundamentally rip this club apart from top to bottom on the playing side.

And I mean on the playing side. As a club off the pitch we remain an example. But we need to sort it out on the pitch. From the academy through to the first team.

Tony Twist
764 Posted 04/06/2021 at 12:15:50
May be I am getting old but I don't understand when people say the club has no ambition if they don't get a big named manager. It is all about the fit. Fit in with the set up of the club, fit in with the players, fit in with the fans to some degree initially.

I'm sorry but Ancelotti's performance was poor, if you take his experience into account it was pathetic. Now people say he needed time, rubbish, even Martinez instilled and created a productive team in his first season. Ancelotti was not the answer.

I just hope common sense prevails and not just look at big names like Pirlo and think he has what it takes to take us further with little experience in management because he may fall short due to that lack of experience. If nothing else I hope Brands has his way.

Kevin Molloy
765 Posted 04/06/2021 at 12:21:14
Surely even Farhad isn't daft enough to roll the dice on Pirlo. I've so little confidence in his judgment that any idea seems plausible.

The awfulness of that appointment does not bear thinking about.

Ian Horan
766 Posted 04/06/2021 at 12:35:25
Why are we calling for a blue laidened management team? We critises tiny tears for the old boys routine!!! Lets forget this grand old team shite!!! God I hate the line " we don't care what the RS say" we still do. Lets take this opportunity to strip the club back to the bare bones and build a structure and staff that are driven, winners and have that nasty streak of being streetwise when on the pitch. No more oldboys network. I want a team to be proud of. Time to separate EITC from Everton F C. Tiny tears can go a be chairman of the Charity whilst new grown up driven professionals focus on bringing back pride, and a fear factor for the opposition
Jamie Evans
767 Posted 04/06/2021 at 12:47:12
I’d go for Dunc - we need someone who can motivate and organise. Don’t think we have loads to spend on new players.

Bring Cahill in on the first team too.

Tony Everan
768 Posted 04/06/2021 at 12:49:00
Let’s face it, there’s no perfect option. What we need is a best available manager that fits into Brands strategies for the club.

I’d like a younger manager on the up, more focussed on great coaching and match day tactics. Someone who can let Brands come up with varying possibilities for recruitment and then get the manager’s input on which of those players to go for.

No mercenaries please who think they are doing us a favour by being here.

It will then, in theory, become a more harmonious club that has its core elements working together instead of against each other. Progress will follow on from that.

The trouble is coming up with the right man, Nuno, Potter, Ten Haag ? Whoever gets mentioned gets criticism that can be be justified, so it’s back to the first sentence, there’s no perfect option.

We’ll all have to embrace that fact when Brands and Moshiri make their decision and give the manager our full backing.


Ian Burns
769 Posted 04/06/2021 at 12:58:48
Having earlier stated my preference for Ten Hag, I have now read an extremely interesting and sensible post by Andy Duff 723.

I’ve changed my mind as this post puts it all into perspective - thanks Andy

Andy Duff
770 Posted 04/06/2021 at 13:08:26
Thanks Ian of course if this happens and he is a disaster it might take me another year before I post again...

Whilst passion alone won't win things, he kicks every single ball on the touchline. I watched him with Carlo in his ear all the time and Carlo doing nothing.

He has served under a lot of managers with varying styles. All coaching badges are completed why not maybe a 12 month deal with an experienced assistant

Danny O’Neill
771 Posted 04/06/2021 at 13:11:36
We criticise Kenwright and being too emotionally attached in his love of Everton. He's passionate about the club. So am I.

But then we want to appoint Duncan, Tim and Unsworth because they are passionate about the club. That is so contradictory.

I repeat. So am I. Appoint me if that's what you want. I can run up and down the touch line demonstrating my Everton-ness more than most. And guess what, I'd be gone by October. As any of those names would be.

Think big and behave like a big club Everton.

I told you I was having a bad day. Again, no offence meant to anyone.

Brian Wilkinson
772 Posted 04/06/2021 at 13:23:28
Well done Andy, at last my previous posts and reasoning on Duncan to at least be given a go instead of keep going down the route of a managers that have looked decent at other clubs, but then bomb at Everton given a swerve.

Everton should at least go down a different route, and I could not agree more of Dunc on the touchline.

I have also seen Dunc having a word in Carlo,s ear, you can see Dunc clearly not happy, but words falling on deaf ears.

Now is the time to give him a go, he seems the perfect choice, but we all know it will be someone else, then a very good chance in 12 Months time, we will be back in this same reoccurring position again.

Break the sequence, try Duncan, instead of an outsider, may work, may not, but at least try something different.

You certainly are having a bad Day Danny, forget Cahill, Unsworth etc, but how can you not even concider Duncan Ferguson at least being given a go.

Danny O’Neill
773 Posted 04/06/2021 at 13:30:09
A bad week Brian.

Because it will end in tears.

I love Duncan, but not the answer for me.

In honesty, and I'm calming myself, he obviously isn't for the club otherwise he'd have been appointed by now. Internal promotions usually happen quickly if that's what's on the mind.

I would assume they are exhausting all other possible options and he will be rolled out as a fallback if they fail.

Tom Harvey
774 Posted 04/06/2021 at 13:30:41
I've got that sneaking feeling the next coach will be of the defensive type like Carlo. We're in survival mode and being in the prem when and if the new stadium is built is all that matters.

The likes of Potter and other attacking coaches are just too much of a risk.

I hope I'm wrong.

John Keating
775 Posted 04/06/2021 at 13:33:01
Looking at all the different present managers being quoted I just don’t see any there who could come in and get this bunch of cowards moving
It will be a change of football/tactics which I can’t see half of this lot doing
Or, it will be yet another attempt at a complete rebuild which will take ages
The only one who knows what these wasters are capable of is Ferguson
He has seen a number of managers using differing tactics with this bunch and fail
Possibly he can get them set up that at least they can compete and if not then at least threaten them with a good flogging if they don’t buck up
Can’t see a great change in playing staff this summer - unfortunately
Give Ferguson a two year deal see if he can do something nobody else has managed
Hugh Jenkins
776 Posted 04/06/2021 at 13:35:21
Sherlock Holmes famously said " When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truth".
We seem to have eliminated both the possible and impossible in terms of managerial appoinments, over the last few years.
Is it so improbably that promoting from within will be an equal disaster?
Should we give Duncan a short term contract till December and then - depending on our league position, extend it or replace him?
Kevin Molloy
777 Posted 04/06/2021 at 13:42:34
no to Duncan. I'm not saying it's impossible, but if he has ambitions as a manager he needs to go out and prove it in the real world. He can't hang around the changies for ten years hoping to get the big one. It's too big a job. It's not about passion, it's about managing thirty different egos and it aint easy. IF it was just about intensity Roy Keane would be United manager rather than sacked at Sunderland.
Danny O’Neill
778 Posted 04/06/2021 at 13:42:37
I'm going back to my original stance. I have no influence on who the next Everton manager is. I never will have. The first one I remember was Billy Bingham. I didn't know much about him as I just used to like watching the football. I don't even know if it was good, I just liked watching football and Everton.

Howard Kendall was great, but again, I just liked watching the football and the players.

We need to sort it out on the pitch and get better players.

Whoever the manager is, I will support. But he needs better players. Over to your Mr Brands.

Tony Abrahams
779 Posted 04/06/2021 at 13:58:44
I think along the same lines as Kevin with regards Duncan, because if my lifetime ambition was to manage Everton, I’d go and manage someone else first, just to prove to myself, and to others even more, that I was definitely up to the job.

Maybe Duncan is only interested in Everton? I could also understand if this is true, and I often think if Kendall would have succeeded if he hadn’t appointed Harvey to first team coach, and wonder who would Ferguson pick to be his number two, if he ever got the Everton job?

Brendan McLaughlin
780 Posted 04/06/2021 at 13:59:50
Danny #771
You'd last until October...cocky git!😊
Andy Duff
781 Posted 04/06/2021 at 14:04:43
Danny that was my worry with Dunc. However, he does understand the club the fans etc. Every manager starts somewhere.

We have tried everything so why not. For me we don't need a manager we need a coach. The DOF model means Brands should be in charge of signings. Let that happen and let Dunc coach, motivate and chastise the players as needed. The list of people available is slim at the moment. Give him a trial at it. It makes for a better transition no period of a new person assessing the squad etc keep looking for the right coach but tell Dunc it is his to lose. If he does well we have what we want, if he doesn't we have bought time to find the correct candidate.

Appointing Dunc allows us to hit the ground running right away

Danny O’Neill
782 Posted 04/06/2021 at 14:05:24
Harsh Brendan. Would you give me until September??
Hugh Jenkins
783 Posted 04/06/2021 at 14:11:58
My take was that we should try Duncan for six months - purely on the grounds that we have tried everything else and none of it has worked.
If, after six months we are where we were with Silva - then relive him of his duties and get in Sam ("I am now a short term manager") Allardyce to "rescue" us again. Or, by some miracle of happenstance, Carlo Ancelotti gets sacked by Real Madrid and we have the opportuity to appoint a "Super Gallactico" manager for the second half of the season and beyond.
What is clear is, that there is no "simple solution" to this problem and a lot of stars are going to have to align in the heavens if we are to finally get lucky and get a manager that is loyal, hard working, and effective.

Brent Stephens
784 Posted 04/06/2021 at 14:19:29
Dave #727 "Well Duncan has been part of the coaching staff under quite a few managers so he has plenty of experience in knowing NOT what to do, has he the knowledge to become a winning manager at Everton, in the position we are in I wouldn’t take the chance to be honest."

My gut feel as well. Not sure who I would take but I know who I wouldn't want.

Danny O’Neill
785 Posted 04/06/2021 at 14:20:06
I'm playing fantasy football now Andy.

Get rid of Kenwright, promote Brands. Bring in Rangnick. Get a coach to work under him. If that is Duncan,

I just fear he would struggle in the current setup and in 6 months time, those who love him would be baying for him to go. Many did with Howard Kendall in 1983. I'd hate to see a club favourite go under those circumstances. I'd actually rather Duncan took a step down and took over Finch Farm and the youth set up.

Ian Horan
786 Posted 04/06/2021 at 14:20:57
Rafa Benitez, he doesnt give a shit about reputations and outs players who don't pull their weight. I don't care about the RS connection either, I want a manager with a plan and a touch of arrogance who will call out officials, players and the media and refs... lets have some backbone and for those who claim he called us a small club, lets be honest he wasn't wrong with Moyes knife to a gunfight comment. Benitez would make it work as his family home remains in Caldy on the Wirral and has been since he first arrived at the RS
David Nicholls
787 Posted 04/06/2021 at 14:29:33
There is nothing in Big Dunc’s resume that suggest he is fit to manage a premier league club with top 6 ambitions.
I’m actually surprised that he has done as well as he has in becoming a 1st team coach when he wasted his own considerable talent and showed a continual lack of discipline during his playing career.
If he is serious about managing Everton then he needs to take a job lower down and prove he has what it takes. Too much of a risk at this stage.
Derek Taylor
788 Posted 04/06/2021 at 14:40:24
What about a season contract for Duncan with Lee Carsley in a coaching role ? I know it goes against the 'clean sweep' so many call for but for me that needs to wait until Brands has time to get us back on track (no lower than seventh) and showing some portents of effort and enthusiasm !

I

Barry Hesketh
789 Posted 04/06/2021 at 14:46:18
Until the whole club from top to bottom realises that it is the first team's performances and results that drive everything, commercial sponsorship, prestige, etc, it doesn't matter who the manager is.

For too many years, defeats or poor performances have been welcomed by the club with a shrug of the shoulders and an 'it'll be better next week' attitude. That doesn't mean we should overreact when a bad run happens, just that all the movers and shakers at the club should be concerned when it does happen and not allow things to drift as they have done for quite a long time.

Any manager can only do so much with whichever players he has available to him, however, my suspicion is that the hierarchy hasn't really been concerned so long as things seem to be ticking along nicely, regardless of the standard of football provided by the team. It's one of the reasons that Everton has been left behind by the richer clubs. Everton's results matter, the optics will take of themselves.


Barry Rathbone
790 Posted 04/06/2021 at 14:46:44
I've never understood the Rafa shouts.

My son in law, a red, told me Benitez got out of jail in Istanbul because of an enforced substitution patching up his initial crap selection. At a top Chelsea side he did the bare minimum, did zip at Newcastle and beyond the CL win effectively bankrupt Liverpool. I know he won stuff in Spain but overall he seems pretty ordinary to me - just don't get it.

Jay Harris
791 Posted 04/06/2021 at 14:49:05
The best way to identify the characteristics required to be the manager of Everton is to study all the successful teams.

If we want to compete with the top 4 it starts with a manger who is capable of getting us in the top 4 and having the ambition to win things.

As it stands the top 4 is Pep, Klopp, Tuchell, Solskaer and I would throw Rodgers in there too and maybe a hint of pepper with Bielsa.

The common factor is all these have had extensive top level experience of winning things and being successful.

I love big Dunc but paprt from his passion and love for the club what experience does he have handling top players. Could you imagine a conversation with him and Rodrigues for example.

I believe we have to be looking for someone who has had significant success not necessarily inheriting top players but in genuinely making a difference.

Names that spring to mind are Galtieri, Rangnick (may be beyond coaching now though),Marcelo Gallardo, Conceição, Fonseca.

The potential list is endless and surely they need to be explored to see if there is a fit in where we want to and need to go.

Nuno should be a plan B and Martinez, Moyes, Howe should be a plan Z.

Jay Harris
792 Posted 04/06/2021 at 14:53:55
Just to add to the big Dunc debate he is also part of the Kenwright clique that needs to be run out of the club.

Can you imagine the control Kenwright would have over the team if big Dunc gets the gig.

Tony Everan
793 Posted 04/06/2021 at 15:06:15
Ian 786, It’s almost like sacrilege to promote Benitez. But nevertheless there are positives. He does have that air of arrogance that gets under the skin of other managers and I think he would be fully committed the cause if he was appointed. He an studious organiser and gets teams playing well. There would nothing more satisfying for him to get one over his previous employers from the blue dugout. As you say he is based in the NW and would probably stick with us for the long term project if we hit on success early. Some other managers mentioned would probably depart at the first phone call from a more elite club. So if he gets it right success could be longer term and maintained into and beyond the BMD.

Then we get to the negatives, for some they are just too much. I just wonder though if they could be won around with better football, Europe or a trophy. Solid incremental improvement. Alternatively a poor run of form and the volcano of past anger will blow. And we all know there will be poor runs of form. Is it worth all that division and bile ?

None of the other managers mentioned are getting universal approval and Benitez certainly won’t.

Paul Hewitt
794 Posted 04/06/2021 at 15:08:09
Barry@ 790. He's won CL and stuff in Spain. What the hell have we won lately?
Brian Wilkinson
795 Posted 04/06/2021 at 15:14:31
Ok I can only come up with logical thinking no right or no wrong, but for my pennies worth, this is my intake.

We bring in yet another manager, who will have the same set of players, baring a few additions.

So when a new Manager comes in, he will give those already here time to evaluate, by the time they see that we have quite a few that needs shipping out, the manager is relieved of his duties, then a new Manager comes in, those players survive and get even more time at Everton.

This has happened over the last 3 years or so, and will continue again, until we break that chain.

Now not many might like the idea of Duncan Ferguson, but he has worked with these players, and will have a good idea of those not up to scratch.

It also buys us time to not rush into a Manager just yet.

We all know most is down to the players, so no new Manager coming in, is going to get anything out of certain players.

Let Brands deal with the buisness end of transfers, work alongside Duncan, on players he wants out of the club.

If it dos not work out, there is nothing stopping Everton going for a new manager, anytime in the coming season, but we might just have that little time scale, to get some of those players, out of the door this Summer.

Alan Corken
796 Posted 04/06/2021 at 15:28:02
Every manager except one has failed with Everton since the days of King Kendal. The single success was of course the Moyesiah. Which of us can forget that memorable day in 2010 when under the ginger wizard we lifted the ROAR cup in Australia? I still remember where I was on that great day, it is a date seared in my memory like the death of Kennedy. Ahh the glory years!

https://www.whoateallthepies.tv/everton/35476/everton-win-first-trophy-of-new-season.html

Brian Wilkinson
797 Posted 04/06/2021 at 15:52:36
What about Joe Royle Alan.
Alan Corken
798 Posted 04/06/2021 at 16:28:01
Sorry Brian Joe did of course win a domestic trophy I was thinking about success in major International tournaments 🤭
Barry Rathbone
799 Posted 04/06/2021 at 16:33:06
Paul Hewitt 794

I don't see your point.

That we haven't won a bean has no bearing on Benitez alleged quality. Furthermore we've just had one of the most decorated managers in world football failing so abysmally he ran at the first opportunity. The lesson of judging managers by previous trophies is surely there for all to see.

Rafa managed in similar circumstances to ours at Newcastle and did nothing - he is a massive bag of poo

Joe McMahon
800 Posted 04/06/2021 at 16:37:33
Barry @790, thats a bit harsh. Angainst many fan protests about him being at the club at Chelsea (he joined after Di Matteo was sacked), he got them back up the table to finish in 3rd and won the Europa League with them in the same season.

Thats a shiny trophy we would have in a heartbeat.

Bobby Mallon
801 Posted 04/06/2021 at 16:50:42
Jay Harris @ 791 I don’t think any of those managers would keep or play Rodriguez
Barry Rathbone
802 Posted 04/06/2021 at 16:52:19
Joe 800

The previous season most of that team won the Champions League!!

From wiki

Chelsea beat Nordsjælland 6–1 to record their biggest-ever Champions League win and Rafael Benítez's first win as manager, but due to other results, they were eliminated after finishing in third place, becoming the first reigning champions to exit the tournament at the group stage

As I say for a club of their resources and team of that calibre he did the bare minimum.

Paul A Smith
803 Posted 04/06/2021 at 17:02:03
Just for the record I believe someone definately told Rob these stories.

I don't think he is a liar at all we just all have different belief systems.

I wouldn't have thought for a second he made it all up himself.

David Currie
805 Posted 04/06/2021 at 17:04:51
Barry 799 is right and we have just had a boring, negative manager. Why do we want another one who is ex RS, we want a manager that gets us on the front foot and has a fucking go and attack teams.
Joe McMahon
806 Posted 04/06/2021 at 17:17:11
Barry @802 you are correct the previous season they did with the Champions league, but following season they were so out of form the manager that won the CL league for them was sacked.
Mark Palmer
807 Posted 04/06/2021 at 17:24:47
I don’t understand anyone who thinks that Everton chasing the dream of a trophy or a place at the top table by prescribing to the winning model of billionaire owner, expensive players and sought after world renown coach/manager will bring any happiness or success. We’ve missed the boat! Football has moved on and Everton have spent too long in the trophy wilderness to have any right or confidence that success is coming anytime soon.
We’ve had years and years to hit upon a formula that works and failed miserably. I find clinging onto the shirttails of rich clubs degrading. Look at the millions upon millions wasted! It’s obscene.
A relegation years ago might have been a blessing. A chance to rebuild, create our own identity. How are we judging success? Trophies? Then we’ve failed. Competing for trophies? We’ve failed. Giving Evertonians pride, joy, something to cheer about? Well, only during the Moyes years and still people moan about him.
Here’s a list of EPL teams to have won an available domestic or European trophy in the last 10 years;
Man City
Liverpool
Man Utd
Arsenal
Chelsea
Leicester
Wigan
Swansea

The top five have won almost everything - thank god for Leicester! It’s a short list that shows trophies are difficult to win and shared out by the richest clubs in the EPL - with a couple of exceptions.

Stop dreaming people! We’re gunna have to come up with a better plan than offering stupid wages to average soccer mercenaries.

Just give me an Everton team to be proud of.


Michael Connelly
808 Posted 04/06/2021 at 17:29:49
The following is the top six in the running according to Sky Bet:

Nuno Espirito Santo 4/6
David Moyes 7/1
Eddie Howe 8/1
Rafa Benitez 8/1
Duncan Ferguson 12/1
Andrea Pirlo 14/1

The following is the list of major honours won for these managers (ignoring Super Cups, which are one off matches, not warranting trophies, in my view):

Nuno Espirito Santo - Championship (1)
David Moyes - 2nd Division (3rd Tier) (1)
Eddie Howe - Championship (1)
Rafa Benitez :
Championship (1);
La Liga (2);
UEFA Cup (1);
FA Cup (1);
Champions League (1);
Club World Cup (1);
Europa League (1);
Coppa Italia (1)
Duncan Ferguson 12/1 - F/all
Andrea Pirlo 14/1 - Coppa Italia (1)

Tasked with making a recommendation to the board, which name would you be putting forward?

Prediction of first response:
But Carlo won more than Benitez, and we could only finish 10th with him, to which I would say that he wasn't here for long enough to prove if he could be a success here.

Merseyside was a temporary stop off for Carlo and his family, whereas Benitez main residence has been the North West for the best part of 20 years, and the Everton job would suit him down to the ground.

Prediction of Second Response:
But Rafa is 10-15 years older than some of the above and has had a longer time period to win trophies in, to which I would say that he is about 3 years older than Moyes, who has won effectively Jack Sh1t.

Might throw a few quid on at 8/1 having gone through that.

Pat Kelly
809 Posted 04/06/2021 at 17:33:29
Mark #807, if Leicester, Wigan and Swansea can do it we can at least aim to be as good as them.
Barry Rathbone
810 Posted 04/06/2021 at 17:33:36
Joe 806

Surely that is a critique of Di Matteo rather than a beatification of Benitez?

The fact Chelsea then went on to win the Prem twice after Rafa suggests the Di Matteo monkeyness was a temporary blip. All opinion of course but I see nothing in Benitez that relates to what we need here. Well, he gets points for owning a house in West Kirby so might not jump ship as quick - OR WOULD HE??

Robert Tressell
811 Posted 04/06/2021 at 17:44:26
Benitez is a 15 years ago man. He's done nothing of note for years. Quite why he'd be remotely near our shortlist I've no idea.

Of the bookies' favourites I expect only Santo has a chance of getting the job.

Michael Connelly
812 Posted 04/06/2021 at 17:51:15
Benitez won the championship 1 year before Santo. So he is a 15 years ago man relative to Santo?

Need to be a bit more logical than that in my view.

Thomas Richards
813 Posted 04/06/2021 at 17:52:42
Part of me hopes its Moyes, just so I can jib going to the game.
Joe McMahon
814 Posted 04/06/2021 at 17:54:22
Barry it won't matter anyway, even though he was won silverware too many bitter blues will be against it. I'm in a small minority, I don't care about what was said or done years ago, I don't live in Evertons past glories decades ago. Now and the future is the important bit. As I said earlier I don't mind any links, players etc to Liverpool (yes I can't stand thier fanbase) but the players, board and managers have a winning mentality that has been lacking for blue half for years.

Peter Beardsley was one of the few genuinely gifted players we had in the 90s, fans didn't bother about the silverware he won in a Liverpool shirt then.

Barry we will just has to agree to disagree.

Darren Hind
815 Posted 04/06/2021 at 18:13:45
Wouldnt bet on the "next manager" market with somebody elses money.

The bookies try all sorts of tricks to lure you in. Supposed smart bets evaporate over night.

The odds makers have huge fun with their imaginary heavy gambles trying to make you follow the "ITK money" The trouble is they want their fun to be at your expense.

Wide berth

Ian Edwards
816 Posted 04/06/2021 at 18:24:40
Who now agrees then when we scored the winner in extra time v Spurs, Ancelotti wasn't looking cool sipping his Coffee. He just didn't give a shit.
Dale Self
817 Posted 04/06/2021 at 18:29:42
You weren't right then and you're not right now. He is a shithead sell-out but did in fact pump his fist after the DCL goal so you're revisionist tripe is rejected. There is plenty of factual material to go after Carlo and his followers, of which I am embarrassed to have been one, I simply don't get why you set yourself up with weak ass statements like that.
Rob Halligan
818 Posted 04/06/2021 at 18:29:42
Paul # 803. Cheers mate, I definitely didn't make any of what I said up, I was told by someone who is ITK!

Funny how quickly my post has spread in the last twenty four hours. I received a WhatsApp message from a mate, a blue, sending me My Post!! I rang him and asked him who he got it from? He told me a friend of his who works at finch farm sent it to him, and he also told me it was all very plausible.

How much of it is true, and how much of it people want to believe is, of course, debatable, but as I said yesterday, my source is very much, shall we say, acquainted with someone who sat in on the team meeting / bollocking dished out by Brands.

Thomas Richards
819 Posted 04/06/2021 at 18:30:19
Ian,

He's gone.
Relax

Jay Harris
820 Posted 04/06/2021 at 18:33:57
Dont you just love that Spurs and Conte are all over Sky but we don't even get a mention. I just hope we see the day when we can ram Everton down Sky's throats.

I don't mind being patient but we have to get the right man and bring some stability and unity to the club.

No choice will be universally accepted by the fans as we all have our own opinion but the right choice will win the fans over ultimately.

Rob Halligan
821 Posted 04/06/2021 at 18:34:07
It's amazing how you can tell what somebody is thinking, just by them sipping a cup of coffee!!
Ian Edwards
822 Posted 04/06/2021 at 18:35:54
Dale. You're wrong. Again. Subsequent events would suggest he doesn't care about the Club.
Dale Self
823 Posted 04/06/2021 at 18:43:36
That is a correct statement that is not challenged by me. At the time of the game cited I still argue that he cared. Singularly for his own reputational gains, possibly, but he cared. That is what I questioned there because you never addressed my response at the time.

This is progress. I'd rather disagree with you like this.

Mike Gaynes
824 Posted 04/06/2021 at 18:44:50
Rob #821, yes, and we can be certain it was decaf because he was, after all, a "coward" who wouldn't have risked the full cappuccino.

Michael #808, interesting post.

Amusing summary paragraph in The Fiver:

"Also in the not particularly long credit column of Don Carlo’s existential Everton ledger is the fact he didn’t trash the joint upon ghosting, in the way Jose totalled things at Spurs, or the way José totalled things at Manchester United. He merely left behind a whiff of expensive cologne, a vague sense of regret, and Josh King. As emotional detritus goes, it’s a relatively easy clear-up job. The club aren’t going to take up the option to extend King’s contract; they’ve been left in the lurch before, by the likes of Howard and Davie, and always bounced back; and it shouldn’t take too long to waft the final traces of Brut Trentatré out of the window."

Brian Murray
825 Posted 04/06/2021 at 18:49:16
Spurs fan tv now saying conte deal on brink of collapse.Maybe he has heard of bills cannonball scrapbook and denises work with the homeless, That will defo swing it.
Dale Self
826 Posted 04/06/2021 at 19:13:01
Okay Brian, I hope you've opened the door on having a laugh at some other clubs 'cause I'm walking thru it. I had not heard the Spurs saga but have you heard the one about an ex-Spurs coach who serves a couple of months and then claims to have asked to leave the club while the club extends his contract by a year claiming to have not heard anything of his displeasure?

PSG popcorn on isle 2!

Brian Murray
827 Posted 04/06/2021 at 19:27:51
If I don’t laugh my belt n shoelaces need hiding. Had enough of this club. Biggest game changer for us would be if boys pen Bollox steps down. Watch us go then. Utter pros top to bottom
. ( don’t mean the table )
Andrew Grey
828 Posted 04/06/2021 at 19:36:28
Mu guess is it will be Nuno followed by Duncan at Christmas/New year if Nuno fails.
Ian Bennett
829 Posted 04/06/2021 at 19:42:16
Rangnick or Ferguson for me - I'd be happy with either. Both would play interesting football, rather than turgid sideways & back shit.
Ian Edwards
830 Posted 04/06/2021 at 19:48:18
Daily Express sport reporting we are having talks with Pirlo. Finished 4th with Juve and scraped into CL only because Napoli drew with Verona last day. Then was sacked. Finishing 4th with Juve isn't very good at all. How is he going to improve Sigurdsson and Iwobi.
Ian Riley
831 Posted 04/06/2021 at 19:52:24
Nuno on 3 year contract I think?

Actually his style of football has impressed me. Pass and move. I like his hunger. Need 5 players to implement his methods! No new signings and another pay off by Christmas. The current squad not good enough for top six.

Tony Everan
832 Posted 04/06/2021 at 20:00:08
Benitez’s first news conference as Everton manager ;

‘It’s an absolute honour to be at a “Big Club” like Everton ‘

Cue laughter from assembled journos

Then when questioned he’ll say he just said it to wind us up because he knew we were a dangerous team, blah de blah, and how he is going to win the fans over blahdeblahde blah.

If he does get it at least there will be some top class entertainment on TW for the foreseeable.

Grant Rorrison
833 Posted 04/06/2021 at 20:00:26
Galtier or Favre would be better options than Pirlo.
Geoff Lambert
834 Posted 04/06/2021 at 20:14:05
Sam araldite cemented us in top half of the prem but who knows what makes the boss tik It would be super to finish above th epoxy 10 place this season. I cant solv ite can anyone on here?
Paul Birmingham
835 Posted 04/06/2021 at 20:14:19
Interesting the rational we all look for in a new manager, but this one must be a good fit.

I don’t have a clue and don’t trust Sky, so let’s see what this weekend brings.

Joe McMahon
836 Posted 04/06/2021 at 20:28:52
I'm gonna have to take a break from checking the media. Ranieri the latest. I suppose Mark Hughes, Alan Pardew and Ian Holloway haven't been mentioned (yet). It's got to the stage where I think Duncan on a rolling contract.
John Skelly
837 Posted 04/06/2021 at 22:08:14
It seems we are a bit rudderless at the moment, I am depressed about the whole situation but something is telling me big Dunc is the answer.
Neil Bowman
838 Posted 04/06/2021 at 22:18:25
ten Hag is my choice.
John Kavanagh
839 Posted 04/06/2021 at 22:18:26
Ian E, Pirlo would jump at the chance. Where else could he find a midfield that even he could outpace? Unfortunately, someone is going to have to tell him that they can't pass a ball two yards either.
Colin Glassar
840 Posted 04/06/2021 at 22:24:21
Ian E, he could start by explaining to Iwobi what a football is and how it is used. Then he could try and instill a minimum of courage and desire into him. As for the rest? That’s an even harder task for any manager.
Jamie Crowley
841 Posted 04/06/2021 at 22:36:24
Neil Bowman @ 838 -

Nuno is my first choice, but Ten Haag is a great shout. I'd be completely fine with that appointment.

Bill Gienapp
842 Posted 04/06/2021 at 22:44:09
On a side note, the thought of Conte and Daniel Levy trying to coexist makes me giggle. I don't think their relationship would survive the initial tour of the facilities.
Dale Self
843 Posted 04/06/2021 at 22:54:24
I think Conte is insisting on a walking with a Kane on that tour.
Jamal Paktongko
845 Posted 04/06/2021 at 23:52:56
FACT:

The team Moyes left behind is by far the best team we had thus far.

And he stitched that team up.with bubble gum and spit.

The.team that Moyes left cost less than what we paid for Arron Lennon and Theo Walcott.

Its unfair to say Moyes underachieving. All he needed was a competent finisher and the club couldn't afford one.

We had to make do with mediocore strikers like Vaughn and Jelavic

Jamal Paktongko
846 Posted 04/06/2021 at 00:00:51
Moyes just made sure we do the basic things right and does it well.

He made sure his team is the fittest in the Premier League and that explains why West Ham scores most of the goals late.

These European coaches, what do.they know about the value of prolonged stamina and fitness?

Zero.

Moyes makes sure only those willing to.give their 100%. Guys like Sigurdsson, Gomez, Delph would be out the door by now.

No point keeping Richarlison on the pitch if the dude keeps trying to do things his way and refuse to pass.

Dont.understand why we kept.playing Digne.when he was clearly underpeforming in the last 15 games.

I'd rather we tried Nkokou

These basic.things, Moyes does so very.well

Gavin Johnson
847 Posted 04/06/2021 at 00:01:41
Jamal, some good points about Moyes but in fairness he did have 11 years to get it right and players like Lescott, Baines and Arteta would cost around £15m - £20m these days
Joe O'Brien
848 Posted 05/06/2021 at 01:18:12
Jamal.. I'm sorry but I cannot forgive/forget the way he accepted the United job behind our back. As you know(or may not) he accepted that job whilst still hinting that he would sign a new contract with us.. all the time knowing that he wasn't going to. That's lack of respect..I respected him when he was with us.. even though he won fa.. but I can't stand him now. To me he showed his true colours. Rant over
Bobby Mallon
849 Posted 05/06/2021 at 04:31:36
Mark Palmer 807 that’s shite. City where in wilderness for yrs then it happened. It’s will happen for us mark my words
Steve Brown
850 Posted 05/06/2021 at 05:38:14
Rob @ 821, I down my scalding coffee in one and then smash the cup over my head when Everton score. That is how much I bloody care about the mighty Blues!

Upsets the wife though.

Steve Brown
851 Posted 05/06/2021 at 05:41:55
If Pirlo gets the job he should pick himself in midfield. He would still be the quickest player.

As for Moyes, Benitez and Gerrard, you can't pick a manager who 50% of fans despise from the get go. Moshiri tried that with Lardiola.

Danny O’Neill
852 Posted 05/06/2021 at 06:32:06
What do these European coaches know about winning titles and the Champions League? Come on Jamal. I'm probably guilty of being the opposite of you and being harsh on English coaches.

I really don't care where the manager comes from, but recent history tells us that the successful ones are from the continent. Depends whether we want to exist or win things and depends on how we invest in players.

Steve, joking aside, I'd pay double to watch Pirlo, even now. What a player. All in the brain. Oh, and his feet weren't too bad either!

Paul Ferry
853 Posted 05/06/2021 at 06:42:53
The call for zealous Everton-convert Ferguson is funny and dangerously reminiscent of a club that is stuck in the past.

What on earth has he done to get the job? Forgive me for smiling when I hear of his earth-shattering faith/identity-restoring four-match sequence with a 25% win record. Oh, but he did leg it down the touchline and grabbed a ball-boy. How can anyone possibly evaluate Ferguson on the basis of a handful of matches that he knew would end as a handful of matches. In other words, he had nothing to lose.

And now he claims to be ready! The most unready permanent gaffer in our history I would venture. Four games. And please don't rattle on about all that Finch Farm experience that very few of us if any know little about. Four games!

Even imagining Ferguson as gaffer is the embarrassing confirmation of a club in an embarrassing situation.

Sake, pull yer heads out of the past sand. It's quicksand.

I know that these are tough emotional times for all of us but the burglar-batterer is not the answer. The only conceivable scenario for this if if Ferguson has the nous and balls to take on a challenge at a lesser club and be successful.

In other words, leave his comfy Everton set-up and, well, take a bold step for once.

Colin Glassar
854 Posted 05/06/2021 at 07:42:09
Paul, I love Ferguson’s passion but I totally agree with you. Before Duncan is given the top job let him prove himself elsewhere. He should go to a league one team and work his way up, see what he’s really made of.

By the way, how’s life in the Windy City? Still hanging out with Barack and Michelle? You are sorely missed on the live forum along with Brady/brody and a few others.

Hugh Jenkins
855 Posted 05/06/2021 at 08:59:59
The mistake we all make is that we expect loyalty and passion from "hired guns".

What Ancelotti has done, is only what Moyes did a few years back - i.e. left his "sweet and cuddly" middle-aged wife, for the "sexy and racey" late-twenties model.

If all we want is loyalty and passion - then Duncan will provide that.

If what we want is "instant success", then Conte and an open cheque book with the abandoment of any idea of building a solid platform for the future - a "live for the day" philosophy, if you will, can provide that.

Having followed the Blues for over 60 years, seen the highs and lows and having read and subscribed to ToffeeWeb and several similar fan sites I think the majority of fans don't crave flashy, instant success.

They want to see the foundations laid for a dynasty, for early moderate gains on the pitch growing incrementally season by season.

Initally they want a team of "triers" that give their all in every game, that are replaced one by one, season by season by more skillfull players, who still also give 100% in every game.

Until ultimately, in the not too distant future, Everton does regain her rightfull place amongst the football elite.

The trick now, is to find the manager that is going to be able to achieve that.

Saddly, I am not at all sure that, of all the names mentioned thus far, that manager is amongst them.

So, I shall, once again, have to wait and see, what the Everton "powers that be" deliver, and hope that, whover it is, fulfills the need.

Danny O’Neill
856 Posted 05/06/2021 at 09:14:45
I'm with you on just about every word there Paul Ferry. I'm thinking that because it hasn't already happened, but club are looking external. If Duncan wanted it and the club wanted to confirm it no longer has ambition, it would have surely happened by now.

That's my assumption. Or I should probably say hope?

But this is Everton. Only we could be the ones to drag that out only to announce the most underwhelming appointment. It could however get worse and we get Moyes.

Surprise me Everton. You always tend to, but please make this a pleasant surprise.

Barry Rathbone
857 Posted 05/06/2021 at 09:36:18
On the subject of big Dunc I think some aren't seeing the wood for the trees. One of the big issues beyond attaining success is what happens on that glorious day?

An imported latino or Mediterranean coach will almost certainly be off to Spain or Italy at the first approach (hola Carlo) with Dunc I very much doubt that would happen.

I have no idea whether he can deliver but we can only go on evidence and his brief stint in charge was great so leave him alone or I'll drive him to your house and laugh as he gives you a good shoeing 😆😆😆

Danny O’Neill
858 Posted 05/06/2021 at 09:42:42
I'll pass on that one Barry!!

I love Dunc. I would love him to stay at the club in some capacity, just not as manager. And if the new manager decides he doesn't want him on his coaching staff, then he has a decision to make.

Taking the Everton out of it, I'd like to see him go and coach / manage a team in his own right. Just not Everton. Not now.

Laurie Hartley
859 Posted 05/06/2021 at 09:43:23
I can understand why some would like to see Moyes back but I don’t think it would be right for us to approach him or for him to come. That we would be us and him doing what Real Madrid and Carlo Ancelloti did to us. A classless move by all concerned.

Having said that, after the shambles of the last five years I am forming the opinion that we would be better off with someone in the Moyes mould. Chris Wilder maybe.

One thing is for sure I don’t want another Hollywood manager I have learned my lesson.

Colin Glassar
860 Posted 05/06/2021 at 09:55:18
Laurie, he’s not coming back. I’ve promised myself like a gazillion times not to keep talking about him but his ginger head keeps on popping up endlessly on these pages. He’s staying at WHU, thank Christ.

When will people get over him? When he retires? When he kicks the bucket? He’s moved on, we should move on. He’s gone, he’s never coming back. Let’s look forwards, not backwards. We are weighed down by our history. The past is the past.

Danny O’Neill
861 Posted 05/06/2021 at 10:02:11
In Colin we trust. He's promised!!
Joe McMahon
862 Posted 05/06/2021 at 10:05:05
Moyes supporters on here. The lot across the parked sacked Houllier a manager that had won 5 trophies in about 5 years. Not anything won in 11 of Moyes. Why on earth would we want yesterday's man who won nothing back. Going further back Kendall coming back didn't work, the 3rd time it was embarrassing for him and us.
Danny O’Neill
863 Posted 05/06/2021 at 10:12:28
Very true Joe.

They also sacked Rodgers, who okay didn't have a great start to the season, but had just nearly won them title and has gone on to prove himself elsewhere. They did so because they knew Klopp was available and willing. Ruthless and ambitious. No sentiment or throw backs to tales of the boot room and nostalgia.

Meanwhile, we talk emotional appointments of ex-players because they're passionate and former managers who won nothing.

Right, like Colin, I too promise not to mention that one again!!

I don't like rumours, but the paranoia is starting to get to me. Can we at least have one credible one to give me hope or put me out of my misery?!!!

Mark Ryan
864 Posted 05/06/2021 at 10:27:44
Never give Duncan the job. It will end in tears and not for the players like many of you think. He's not a manager and clearly doesn't really want to be otherwise he'd have left ages ago and bloodied himself elsewhere.
Never again give Moyes the job, going back NEVER works out well. Any other suggestions welcomed but neither of these. Here endeth the lesson
Eddie Dunn
865 Posted 05/06/2021 at 11:00:36
Ian- regarding Carlo and his cup of coffee have you ever tried clapping with any drink in your hand or jumping for joy with scalding liquid in a paper cup?
He wasn't even being "cool", he was just holding his drink!
Rob -I believe your story 100%. I had a contact near the club, an explayer in the media. I couldn't say too much at the time(of Martinez) without giving away my source. That's the trouble with football though, they are now in a different social sphere, you don't meet them so much down the pub. Info is scarce, and all we get is journo speculation.
A close friend has ghost written a few autobiographies with a few people. My mate went to the training ground when Moyes was in charge the players were very tight-lipped on anything other than the most mundane "he's a great lad" comments. Nobody wants to shit on their doorstep and as many of them see a coaching/media job in the distance, they certainly take care what they say.
Today most of them cover their mouths when chatting on camera.
Dave Williams
866 Posted 05/06/2021 at 11:18:04
This is so difficult isn’t it?!
The problem is that no one knows how any manager will fare at any particular club. He has to connect to a couple of dozen players whose abilities he may or may not respect and whose personalities may not be his cup of tea. He may want to implement a style of play which the current playing staff find difficult to produce( highly likely in this case). He has to settle into a new area and may have kids who need to move schools away from their mates. What has worked for them at previous clubs may not work at Everton. If he doesn’t hit the ground running he will get severe criticism from fans who wanted someone else- will he be strong enough to rise above this or will he throw in the towel like Ancelotti did, or buckle under the pressure.
We need a manager who understands us. We were a massive club but sadly we’re not now. The ambition is there, the owner has money but we will not crack the top 6 by buying players on huge salaries who have had their best years or who have not been quite good enough at bigger clubs. We need to build a young, vibrant, aggressive team with some good, more experienced pros to provide a spine.
I don’t see how the likes of Pirlo can do this job. He’s probably never heard of us, has no great knowledge of the English game and would struggle with a squad who can’t pass the ball with any accuracy over more than a couple of feet. Nuno as others have said shows signs of being another Silva, Conte would be off elsewhere just like Ancelotti as soon as a bigger club showed interest. I think Moyes would do a decent enough job but is he hungry enough?
I wonder about a combo of Wenger/ Viera or take a gamble on Potter being the next young English manager to come good. Dyche would shake them all up as he wouldn’t stand for the lack of fight in this squad. Benitez is too old, Gerrard is an abhorrent suggestion which makes me vomit, Rogers wouldn’t leave Leicester for us and may well end up at Spurs anyway,Howe is very suspect defensively and Simione would be in the same category as Conte. Dean Smith does a good job at Villa but why leave them for us?
I watched Howard’s Way last night and marvelled at the passion that Gray,Sharp,Sheedy,Heath and PatvdH still have for our club not to mention Colin Harvey. That is what we need from our new manager and it is what Ferguson would give us in spades. Ok, he has no real experience but what if he was paired with an old hand similar to the Mercer/Allison partnership in the late sixties. Would Wenger be suitable to work with him- he knows Moshiri of course. Someone like Hodgson would be an experienced partner for Duncan or even Redknapp.
I’m really struggling and don’t have any knowledge of foreign coaches to speculate on them. It’s got to be a Brit,or a pair of them for me.
Ian Horan
867 Posted 05/06/2021 at 11:44:55
Love Dunc as a player, his passion is not in question but I have huge reservations about his potential appointment. Lampard baxked himself and went and got management experience with Derby. Even Rooney has gone out in the big wide world of Management. Idon't care where the new manager comes from as long as he is backed and given time and patience
Danny O’Neill
868 Posted 05/06/2021 at 11:53:35
Colin Harvey makes me dusty eyed every time I watch that Dave Williams and I never saw him play, just witnessed him as Howard's assistant.

The difference is he had passion and was a winner. Duncan only has one of those.

Don't agree with your British point. Simply not enough who are actually good enough right now in my view.

Dave Williams
869 Posted 05/06/2021 at 12:25:43
Agreed Danny hence why I am struggling! I don’t want some foreign guy who can’t be bothered like Ronald and Carlo. Who is there?
You’d have loved Harvey as a player- fight, effort and the most skilful I have ever seen, even better in that regard than King Alan!
Andrew McLawrence
870 Posted 05/06/2021 at 12:29:04
Pirlo would improve the midfield. He's much more mobile than Gomesh and Siggy.
Danny O’Neill
871 Posted 05/06/2021 at 12:35:04
I don't know where this one's going either Dave.

On one hand, glad there is nothing coming out of the club as it means they're giving it serious consideration and thought.

On the other, will you please tell me what's going on as the wife is not overly impressed with how much time I'm spending on the Internet and even the dogs are tiring of my endless Everton ramblings now!

My dad couldn't see past Alex Young or Alan Ball, but he did always reflect fondly on Colin Harvey.

I bore my son with tales of Kevin Sheedy and Paul BracewelI. I wish we'd got more out of him. Talking of Howard's Way, that instant diagonal pass out to Trevor Steven on the turn against Sunderland. Wow.

Laurie Hartley
872 Posted 05/06/2021 at 12:37:14
Colin # 860 - I agree with you 100% on Moyes - I certainly don’t want him back. If I came across that way it wasn’t my intention. I got over him the day he said he was going to United.

Someone above - Andy Duff? - talked about us needing to rediscover our identity as a football club. I think that hits the nail right on the head. At the moment we are like a dogs breakfast on and off the field.

Whoever gets the job has a monumental task on his hands getting that dressing room sorted out. It isn’t going to happen in the course of one season in my opinion.

As always I live in hope that this time we get it right.

Paul Birmingham
873 Posted 05/06/2021 at 13:07:32
Well said Colin, we can’t be prisoners of Everton’s past success as generally it’s all lifetimes ago more or less.

Time to cut clean and get an identity and belief with the new manager.

Ralph R, for me but some one will be akin to the Catt, make and take tough descision but who believes in playing football.
A big ask!

Ian Edwards
874 Posted 05/06/2021 at 15:05:22
I disagree Eddie. There was no facial change of expression. He could have smiled. He was holding the cup in one hand. He could have raised his other. He didn't care.
Steve Croston
875 Posted 05/06/2021 at 15:09:35
Pirlo would be such an unimaginative and predictably boring appointment.
Big yawn from me!
Eddie Dunn
876 Posted 05/06/2021 at 15:28:36
Ian- true on the one free hand but I read it at the time as purely as not prematurely celebrating and perhaps giving his team the impression that it was done and dusted, and might have caused then to think the job was done. After all Spurs were very dangerous on the night as we saw our 3-1 lead vanish.
Nonetheless, I am happy he has gone now rather than make us endure another season of awful football. I am thankfull for the away wins, esp at our old ground but any kudos the club might have gleaned from his appointment, the subsequent departure has left us looking like mugs.
However the players have shown that they really are just a mid-table squad, and the majority of them have failed to perform for several coaches, which says it all.
Matthew Williams
877 Posted 05/06/2021 at 16:08:41
Pep Guardiola.
Steven Gerrard.
Andy Morrison.
David Healy.

So my fellow Blues...what's the link?.

Therein lies the ANSWER folks...the beautiful game is the same wherever it's played!.

Paul Birmingham
878 Posted 05/06/2021 at 16:45:44
Andrew your right Pierlo would be the speed merchant to our midfield if he came.

He’s proabably better than them even being retired for some time.

But for me he’s still to learn his craft, and being a great player rarely guarantees being a great football manager.

Alan Corken
881 Posted 05/06/2021 at 21:29:00
Matthew @877 They managed Champions of each of the home nations. Although I gotta say the beautiful game as played by Man City is not the same as that played by Rangers and unrecognisable from the kicking for touch game played by Connah Quays. And as for Linfield.
Paul A Smith
882 Posted 05/06/2021 at 21:52:40
If we were to give Dunc the managers job he needs to be given the best coaches and sports science team available.

That should go for any manager who comes in but Duncan would need that more than most.

Brian Murray
883 Posted 05/06/2021 at 21:55:04
Paul. The likes of siggy and his sidekick there bottle would go if they where told they had to press and actually be as fit as the rest as the premier. Get rid soon as.
Tony Twist
884 Posted 05/06/2021 at 22:50:16
I wouldn't have said this a year ago but Moyes, with his achievement this season with West Ham plus the poor standard of alternatives, deserves the opportunity to right the wrongs of his previous stint as boss. I would not be disappointed with him becoming our manager again as the playing side of things is an absolute state. I think he wouldn't suffer fools in his team and definitely has the drive to succeed. I think Everton have lost their identity and Moyes will definitely put that right. I think he has unfinished business here and I am sure we will be a stronger side with him as manager, due to the state we are in, than with any one else getting the job. He is a safe pair of hands, let Dunc go cut his teeth with another club but with an open invitation to return. Obviously with Moyes, we would need Alan Irvine as well. They are a great combination. It ain't gonna happen though, West Ham won't let him go and anyway Mr Moshiri doesn't seem to learn from his mistakes.
Martin Mason
885 Posted 05/06/2021 at 22:55:01
Tony, Moyes is one of the lowest risk options of all those candidates toted and could be a good choice for the transition we need. We must not go for another Carlo, they are the biggest risk.
Brendan McLaughlin
886 Posted 05/06/2021 at 23:12:50
Was a massive Moyes fan and unlike a lot on here I bear him no ill will but you never go back...never!
Ian Jones
887 Posted 05/06/2021 at 23:23:26
BBC gossip with a link to a Sun report suggesting Duncan Ferguson has turned down a chance to join Carlo's coaching team at Real Madrid as he wants the Everton job.

Sorry, can't get the link working but it's on the Gossip pages...

Justin Doone
888 Posted 05/06/2021 at 23:29:45
If Brands doesn't improve the first team with some top class players then we need a manager who can get the most out of the current players.

To be blunt, that's not a manager who wants to play a possession based game, keep ball or play out from the back. We don't have the players to do it successfully as has been proven by several managers.

If we can lure in a few top class players into defence, midfield and forward positions then we have a greater selection of managers to choose.

Brands, go get some players signed ASAP!

Matthew Williams
889 Posted 06/06/2021 at 00:15:21
Alan #881 harsh and untrue...atm, if we rocked up at ANY of those teams home grounds,I swear we wouldn't get a victory,as they all play to win.

They are all Champions...were a shambles!.

Btw...If it weren't for the Welsh footy,this season would've been a total write off for me!.

Matthew Williams
890 Posted 06/06/2021 at 00:36:28
I'm just so tired with new managers and their philosophy...jeez.

Boring bastards that just produce boring football.

I've read that the footy agent with the really sad name has Moshiri's ear when it comes to selecting the new Gaffer...sigh.

Maybe the unthinkable is the only way out of this fucking mess!.

Kieran Kinsella
891 Posted 06/06/2021 at 00:41:34
Ian

I saw that and I don’t believe it TBH

Mike Gaynes
892 Posted 06/06/2021 at 02:12:46
A Paul Ferry post! (#853)

That's a stunner.

What's even more stunning is... I agree with him.

Danny O’Neill
894 Posted 06/06/2021 at 09:14:59
Just seen that this morning Ian.

I very quickly scrolled past it. If I can't see it, it's not real.

Allen Rodgers
895 Posted 06/06/2021 at 09:50:46
Eddie Howe 'pushing hard ' for the job according to The Times. Please God no !!
Dave Williams
896 Posted 06/06/2021 at 10:18:53
Well said Mary #880. People were slagging him off for years as being no more than window dressing in his coaching role. Since his cameo as manager he has been given some credit for his coaching but people continue to berate him when they haven’t a clue what he is like. How many have witnessed his coaching sessions, how many have seen how he deals with players?
We all have our own different views and yes,as a player he could have given much more on occasions than he did but he was a bit wild in his younger days ( weren’t we all) and has presumably grown up since.
There are some big advantages in giving him a try. He knows the players, he knows the ones who can’t really be bothered so he won’t need to waste time getting to know them. He knows what we need in terms of new players. He knows the young players who are coming through and will more than likely trust them a lot more than Ancelotti ever did.
He knows the club, he connects with the supporters and he knows what we expect from our team. He knows the PL, he will demand effort and fight from his players and as he showed in his spell in charge he won’t tolerate anyone who fails to carry out his instructions. He won’t cost us a fortune in salary or in compo if he tries and fails. He won’t jump ship for a better offer as he is where he wants to be.
Basically he stands as much chance as anyone else mentioned as a candidate because no one knows how the new guy,whoever he is,will get on.Management is such a lottery and a lot of aspects have to fall into place for success to follow.
As the 800 plus posts on this thread indicate, there is no outstanding candidate and the depressing thing is that they have all been sacked for not doing their job well enough elsewhere apart from Potter who is the only “ up and coming” name amongst them all.
On balance I would go for Duncan as he stands more chance than most of making it work. Put a good team around him, a decent assistant( which he didn’t have as caretaker) and give him a whirl- there is every chance that it could work.
Anthony Murphy
897 Posted 06/06/2021 at 10:39:29
I reckon we are taking our time to consider all options given this is so vital to get right. I don’t therefore think Dunc not being appointed yet is evidence that he won’t get it although I don’t think it’ll be him in the end. I also don’t think it’ll be Nuno - just can’t see how he would be the choice of either Brands, Moshiri or Kenwright. I think the decision will be Moshiri’s as recent evidence suggests it is him who decides and I don’t think Ancelloti leaving will completely derail his thinking so I think we will end up with a ‘name’ rather than Dunc or a up and coming young manager. This isn’t what I’m advocating just what I think we may see but could be totally wide of the mark. Let’s be honest, with Moshiri it really is a guessing game
Justin Doone
898 Posted 06/06/2021 at 10:45:08
Howe could develop into a top coach but for me he's in the Martinez and Silva category of overplaying the ball at the back.

In general I don't like the philosophy, it's too risky and even man city, man utd, l'pool etc. come unstuck when defenders try and play out slowly from the back.

Get the ball forward quicker, get players with more pace, stamina, movement and ability. In this regards Dunc could do a decent job, but so could Moyes, Rafa, Pir lo, Conte etc.

We need better players, we need a manager that can motivate and get the best out of players without playing risky, defensively nieve football. It's very much substance over style without wanting a Sam or Dyche long ball merchant. Unfortunately Dunc could also be classed as similar going off his brief stint.

Whoever the next manager is, Brands bringing in top class players is more important. Another 'interesting' summer ahead.

Danny O’Neill
899 Posted 06/06/2021 at 11:41:43
Sorry, I thought about whether to respond or not, but I will and its meant in the spirit of debate.

I don't think many have slated Duncan here. Like just about every Evertonian, I love the guy and his passion for Everton.

What some have done is question his credentials to be the manager. Just as many have been doing so over many suggested candidates.

I also don't like the live in this city thing. Again, apologies, but that suggests that those who do have some kind of superior entitlement over those who don't. Suggesting they are better Evertonians.

I was born in Liverpool. I lived in Liverpool both as a child and adult, interspersed with periods living elsewhere. My sons first school was in Liverpool. We are massive Evertonians who are still very much in touch with our family in Livepool. Yet through profession and life, don't live in Liverpool and haven't done in years. When I go to a home match, it costs me around £250 all in; for one match. But I do it, much to my wife's scorning

And regardless of how people connect and belong to Everton, regardless of whether they are fortunate enough to get to Goodison or have to watch from their arm chair, they are as big an Evertonian as me or anyone on here. Regardless of where they come from and regardless of whether they have Liverpool roots or not.

I'm deeply passionate about my roots and my football club, but to suggest you have to live in the city to be in touch? We will have to disagree on that.

This is not directed personally, but thats the type of small club, small city insular thinking that has got Everton to where they are and seen Liverpool (city) outflanked by Manchester.

Apologies. No offence intended, but that just rattled me.

I'm currently seeing decent priced flights to Tampa for next month. £541 return. I'm going to be in so much trouble as I'm out this afternoon and probably do it later!!

David Baxter
900 Posted 06/06/2021 at 13:39:09
Maybe Dunc should do what Neil Critchley did at Liverpool.He left the U23's,to go and manage Blackpool,and got them promoted to the Championship in his first season.Are there any local sides in the Lancashire area looking for a manager.Could be somewhere to cut his teeth,so to speak.
Paul A Smith
901 Posted 06/06/2021 at 13:40:51
Mary 880 speaks from the heart and head there.

I agree with a lot of what she says and what makes me howl is this is just a British Snobbery thing.

Big Dunc was a thug blah blah. Rooney was a mouthy scruff blah blah but suprise suprise at the same time Big Dunc name springs up, there are calls for bar fighter Gerrard. The 2 footed flier that has never done wrong.

More narrative nobhead nonsense (i love my new phrase👌)
Rooney and Ferguson scumbags so they could never manage Everton but working class heroes like Gerrard and spit at fans - if you can't find a coin to throw - Carragher get to have lovely privledged roles in football.

Mary Coleman simplified what is wrong these days. Heads up arses and out of touch.

Danny O’Neill
902 Posted 06/06/2021 at 13:48:29
Anywhere to talk about summer transfers on the general forum (Michael / Ed team).

I see Villa have agreed a £33m deal with Norwich for their midfielder Buendia. I guess that's them not taking the option up of taking Ross on.

I can see it now if Bill is involved. We can get Duncan or Davey in and bring Ross back.

Dave Abrahams
903 Posted 06/06/2021 at 14:04:20
Mary (880), Mary I was at the Chelsea game, the only game Duncan won by the way, I have met Duncan a couple of times, at a wedding and a wake strangely enough, and he’s a nice fella, the reason I don’t think he should be Everton’s manager at the moment is because I think he would be too risky, maybe if he proves himself elsewhere he could be considered in the future.

Mary I would love to see a rat throw a brick, be a bit special that!!!

Danny O’Neill
904 Posted 06/06/2021 at 14:20:54
Nothing wrong with Duncan or Wayne's character in my opinion Paul A Smith.

Yes, they made mistakes in life, but who hasn't? I have. Many of them. Even at 49 I still do!

Interesting to draw those two out as their passion on the field got the better of them more a few times. I get that; some players are like that and you shouldn't take that out of their game, just try to channel and control it.

Duncan's more so. Of the two, and I'm talking about Duncan the player now, he just didn't reach the heights he could have done so with the potential he had. And I appreciate that injury played a part. People like you and I will never really know the behind the scenes truth of that, but I'm sure it played a big part.

I'll probably get smashed for this, but I always sensed there was an element of him being a reluctant footballer. He didn't and doesn't seem to like the spotlight. That contributed to the inconsistency. He never performed all of the time, although in his defence, he mainly played in average Everton teams.

Rooney. So, there's an interesting one. I feel he also didn't get to the level he could have done. Considering he's won just about everything, at face value, that's a ridiculous statement. But there's always been that comparison of the young Ronaldo and young Rooney. Arguably, Rooney the better natural talent. But Ronaldo worked harder whereas Rooney relied on his natural ability. Splitting hairs as they both went on to be world superstars in the game. But Ronaldo played at the highest level for longer, whilst by 32, Rooney was back at Everton with his legs gone, shipped off to the MLS when we realised it and then ended up at Derby.

That's a football assessment of both, not a personal criticism of either individual by the way.

Duncan is a gentleman and great ambassador for Everton Football Club. Wayne has had to live his life in the media spotlight since a very young age.

But just because they're good Evertonians and regardless of where they come from, it doesn't make them the best candidates to be Everton manager. We judge them on their ability to be Everton manager.

Obviously its all about opinions as always and that's the beauty of sites like this where we come to discuss it.

Nothing wrong with your view by the way Mary, I just wanted to counter it. Again, meant in the spirit of debate, not to be confrontational or critical. There are many blues who support this club who don't happen to live in Liverpool and some never have. But they are still Evertonians. Alan Ball wasn't from Liverpool and not a born Evertonian, but his quote is often used to epitomise what it means to support this club.

Dale Self
905 Posted 06/06/2021 at 14:22:20
Very nice Danny and inspired by Mary. As a colonial I am particularly humbled by your willingness to share the local love with everyone. Love is immeasurable
Thomas Richards
906 Posted 06/06/2021 at 14:26:16
Off topic but with tonights game in mind.

Southgate has informed the media the team will take the knee tonight.
I hope this gesture stops asap.

Fran Mitchell
907 Posted 06/06/2021 at 14:36:44
I'm more concerned that racism stops, Thomas.
Brian Wilkinson
908 Posted 06/06/2021 at 14:46:36
Could not agree more Thomas, the point has been made, on the subject of this what have they done and apologies if I word this incorrect, but what have they done against gay/Lesbian, homophobic etc, absolutely nothing, yet we live in a world where mindless people attack the very said as much as they attack Racial, but only one is in the spotlight in every sport, news and everything you read.

The more this is hilighted, the more the idiots will thrive on this, keep it out of the news, let the people deal with the abuse, by tracking them down, fining them, even imprisonment if needed, but the taking the knee is not going to sort those who will not take a blind bit of notice of it.

It was a great idea at the time and the purpose has served its cause, but now is the time to stop the taking the knee.

Thomas Richards
909 Posted 06/06/2021 at 14:47:18
Me too Fran.

A very passionate subject for me.
The knee is doing nothing to stop racism. The racists are not bothered in the slightest by the gesture.
Racism has seen black people on thier knees for 400 years.

Paul A Smith
910 Posted 06/06/2021 at 14:58:04
Its just perception I am talking about Danny. Straight away there is a large number of people suggesting why Ferguson couldn't do the job.

To me, and I don't care for Narrative or football fairytales that sell, I think if you give the manager the right tools hes got half a chance.

Today that consists of a contract he is happy with. A very good squad to work with, the best coaches and the best sports science team.

Only then do I judge their credentials. I still don't judge Silva as a poor manager. Anyone who rides the Everton managers job in the last 3 or 4 years is trying to restore things that have been lost or forgotten.

They can't sell themselves to the chairman/owner with a great big plan that keeps falling behind due to other factors like not replacing a good level of player.

Once managers are asked to do a job with less quality of equipment its just a drain on them. You'll never get their 100%.

The plan has to be well thought, better thought. I look at Conte's past and present and think maybe hes trying to stay on the wave of success by demanding the best everywhere he goes.

He seems to have no intention of carrying on if he lose's a star name or two and from his point of view, what is the point?

Any hint of the club tightening the belt a bit, he wants out.

Although I don't like hearing Ancelotti's words after his exit I am glad for the honesty. I looked at him in the tunnel coming back out v Man City and he looked truly fed up.

Hes got off knowing to find the level of player that he can work with will take a long time of headaches.

Look at Pep. Needed the 50 mill full backs before he looked like he knew what he was doing. Klopp was short of the goalkeeper and CB they needed..

All in all its down to the clubs ambition. Back Ferguson properly or anyone with similar committment and they should be ok.

On another note what is the difference in Real Madrid having a Director of Football in comparison to us?

They only buy the worlds best so do they need one specifically for improving the squad? Would they stop buying the best without one?

My ideal would be to follow Moshiri's ambition with Everton methods and we will get better.

Theres no doubt we are only geared to be the 7th best side if every club is steady so we shouldn't get so expectant too quickly.

Gary Willock
911 Posted 06/06/2021 at 14:59:16
Taking the knee (and the BLM origins in particular) isn’t just seen as ‘against racism’, and if it were then it would be almost universally supported.

It’s seen by many people as being part of a marxist, anti-western, anti-establishment movement. Tearing down statues; being angry at police, being ashamed of our history, blaming big businesses for society woes, etc.

Whether they are right or wrong is unfortunately irrelevant. Many will back them, many will detest them. It’s that simple. That makes it DIVISIVE and division should have no place in football.

Wear an armband. Have a minutes silence. Have a minutes applause…….that IS part of football. Surely the marketing brains behind the premier league and FA can come up with something that unites us all against ALL kinds of racism, without the divisive baggage this causes.

Rob Halligan
912 Posted 06/06/2021 at 15:00:04
In reply to David # 900. Hasn't the Morecambe boss just resigned to take over at Bradford? Morecambe won their play off final last week, so might be good for Duncan to spend a couple of years up there. He will feel no pressure managing a league one club, where as if he was to be appointed our manager, even on a one year rolling contract, the weight of the whole world could be on his shoulders. Lovely fella, I'm sure, but no thanks for the Everton job.
David Pearl
913 Posted 06/06/2021 at 15:02:30
Danny, 902.
A thread on summer signings is a great idea. Brands had better have something better than Buendia at £33m, a good deal for Villa if they can keep Grealish and Wadkins (?) they will be tough next season. Going to be an even harder league
Thomas Richards
914 Posted 06/06/2021 at 15:04:45
Rob,

I honestly don't think Duncan is interested at working at any other club.

Not for me as manager at this stage of his career.

Danny O’Neill
915 Posted 06/06/2021 at 15:08:30
Paul A Smith. Bang on. Your second paragraph had me and is what I've been repeating myself on.

The tools, the equipment. Regardless of the manager, we need better players.

Hypothetically, if Pep or Klopp came in tomorrow they would want better players. They would identify the ones they can keep and get more out of, but they would bring in better players. As both to those two did to achieve success at their current and previous clubs.

I'm a self-confessed romanticist but we need to keep thinking big. Eventually it will come off.

Brian Wilkinson
916 Posted 06/06/2021 at 15:09:59
Correct Thomas, what it is also doing is singling race out, why not do it towards Race/ homophobic, abusive relationship, Paedofilia, and every other thing wrong with people who see someone being different a threat.

So much is wrong with our world and people from above, there is as much child abuse and vulnerable children being taken advantaged of, there are women living in fear of abusive relationships, there are lgbtqia who are verbally attacked, there are people who are targeted for their race/colour, but we seem to focus on taking the knee for racial abuse, if we are going to take some kind of action, then let us do it for all of the above.

Cut out the taking the knee, wear T-shirt’s during the warmups, even an armband with a message on if needed.

Thomas Richards
917 Posted 06/06/2021 at 15:17:36
Different causes Brian. Very worthwhile and should be given the most serious attention, but different to the point I made.

I never read about any of the groups you mention being stopped getting on a bus or not allowed to drink out of a white mans fountain because of the colour of thier skin.

Mike Gaynes
918 Posted 06/06/2021 at 15:19:26
Thomas #909, why is it such a passionate subject for you? If all these footballers are taking a knee, why do you care? And how do you know it's doing nothing to stop racism? It's certainly keeping the issue front and center. And it's certainly bothering the shit out of the racists who are booing and abusing players for doing it. I'll bet you haven't asked one player why they do it or how they feel about it. If you care so much, maybe you should.

Gary #911, it isn't the gesture that's divisive, it's the issue. And the players taking the knee have every right not to knuckle under to people who think it's "a marxist, anti-western, anti-establishment movement" and want to intimidate them into stopping. Pulling down statues of traitors and slaveowners, which is what US Confederates were, has absolutely nothing to do with trying to tear down society. Bigotry is a rampant, raging issue that needs to be confronted in every way possible. And if that pisses off the racists, I think that's great. I'd bet my mortgage you've never been confronted with bigotry, or even talked with anybody who has (like my wife and I). If you had, you'd quickly realize you're wrong that anti-racism would be "almost universally supported" -- on the contrary, a large segment of our society is openly bigoted, proud of its bigotry and promotes a racist agenda at every opportunity. Taking the knee is one small way to show that it will no longer be accepted in silence. And if such a tiny gesture outrages the bigots, I say bravo.

Will Mabon
919 Posted 06/06/2021 at 15:22:50
Sport is for enjoyment and entertainment. Not a "Vehicle" for perpetual political messages and memes. Or was.

The job of the FA and Premier League is to administer football. I don't go to and watch football matches to be told what to think, believe or feel guilty about.

Billy Bradshaw
920 Posted 06/06/2021 at 15:30:42
Time to move to another thread.
Mike Gaynes
921 Posted 06/06/2021 at 15:32:47
Will #919, sport isn't just entertainment and you know it. It's a part of society and a big business and an engine for change.

Nobody's telling you anything. They're kneeling to express themselves, which they have every right to do. You have every right not to watch... turn your back, close your eyes, boo, stay home, whatever. You don't have the right to tell them what they can and cannot do in their workplace because it displeases you.

And good luck telling the FA and the PL what their job is.

Thomas Richards
922 Posted 06/06/2021 at 15:32:50
No interest in the fight against racism Billy?
Gary Willock
923 Posted 06/06/2021 at 15:33:42
Mike Gaynes, people like you are the biggest bigots around. You cast the word “racist” in the direction of *anyone* who dares to question it, without ANY knowledge of who they are. You demand absolute fealty to a cause that you think needs imposing on others, and call them names like racist when they exercise their own rights to protest (boo) against it…….and to think Antifa is limited the confederate states is about as blind as you can be.

Whilst you clearly love your keyboard warrior life, this will be my last post on it. If you can’t see a simple truth that it’s dividing, just wait and watch what happens when the full stadiums come back.

Steve Brown
924 Posted 06/06/2021 at 15:38:17
The players can take the knee or choose to stand, it's a free country.
Thomas Richards
925 Posted 06/06/2021 at 15:38:33
"Thomas #909, why is it such a passionate subject for you? If all these footballers are taking a knee, why do you care?"

I have black family members who are subjected to it.

Same as the atrocities ALL races have been subjected to it should be highlighted.
Would you agree with that Mike?

Gavin Johnson
926 Posted 06/06/2021 at 15:38:37
Just logged into TW and looks like I've just jumped in on the sociological debating hour.
Will Mabon
927 Posted 06/06/2021 at 15:39:44
"Will #919, sport isn't just entertainment and you know it. It's a part of society and a big business and an engine for change."


An "Engine for change". Good God. It was never anything of the sort for the greater part of its existence. There have been huge moves to make it such - it hasn't just happened by natural organic development.

If white players knelt to express themselves as proud of being white, what do you think would happen?

I'd rather we just all try to be humans and not continually keep highlighting the differences.

Mike Gaynes
928 Posted 06/06/2021 at 15:39:58
Gary, I don't demand a damned thing, except my right to express my views based on my own personal and family experiences with bigotry, some of them quite recent. I have regularly dealt with pathetic, sniveling conservative cowards who sling insults (or paint or rocks), and then run away.

If you can't handle my views -- and obviously you can't -- then by all means, throw your insults and run away too. You'll fit right in. See ya.

Steve Brown
929 Posted 06/06/2021 at 15:40:17
Type or paste your comment here. PLEASE capitalise initial letters of proper names and use proper grammar. No txt-speak; all-lowercase posts are likely to be deleted
Thomas Richards
930 Posted 06/06/2021 at 15:41:50
"Gary, I don't demand a damned thing, except my right to express my views"

Great. Am I not allowed to do similar?

Will Mabon
931 Posted 06/06/2021 at 15:43:20
Gavin - timing is everything!
Andrew Bradshaw
932 Posted 06/06/2021 at 15:44:55
Hi everyone, I do not post often but always read the threads. With regard to Buendia going to Villa, I also see that they are after Ward-prowse as well. Whilst we dilly dally the teams in and around us are quietly and efficiently going about their business. Leicester about to tie up Edouard from Celtic as well. Manager or not, I hope Brands(whoever?) are lining some ducks up.
Steve Brown
933 Posted 06/06/2021 at 15:45:31
The players don't kneel to express pride in their race. They do it to express their opposition to racism. It is their right to do it, as others do by standing.

Last time I checked we were. democracy.

Mike Gaynes
934 Posted 06/06/2021 at 15:46:48
Thomas #930, of course you are allowed. Who said you weren't? Certainly not me. My disagreement with your views is not, in any way, a challenge to your right to express them. Did one word in my post make you think otherwise?
Paul Hewitt
935 Posted 06/06/2021 at 15:48:59
Booing when players take the knee does NOT make you are racist. To say it is, is pathetic. I also know black people who think it is now a pointless exercise.
Fran Mitchell
936 Posted 06/06/2021 at 15:53:14
I think it is totally worth continuing the knee, and that it is being booed is a demonstration of its necessity and the impact.

Make the racists feel uncomfortable and pissed off and left out for once. Rather than bowing to them to not 'upset the boat' and not 'cause a scene'.

People who are victims of racism (and yes, homophobia, sexism, etc) are blamed for 'causing a scene' when they confront those that doing the racism, sexism, homophobia etc. It's time the tables are turned.

And a constant reminder that Racism will not be accepted, all the time, every game, is a very small and easy gesture to make the statement.

The ide athat 'it doesn't change' anything is along the thinking that this type of.change can happen quickly. And it can't. We've been a racist country for centuries, and it won't change overnight.

Gary Willock
937 Posted 06/06/2021 at 15:53:45
Mike on the one hand you say anyone who doesn’t agree with it is a “racist”, and on the next you say
“conservative cowards who sling insults”.

The hypocrisy is genuinely mind boggling. So far you’ve called anyone who dares disagree with you, and this movement, a ‘coward’ a ‘bigot’ and a ‘conservative’ (fortunately with a small c I guess).

So, because you are NOT a conservative, it’s ok for you to ‘sling insults’. One rule for you, and another for anyone who disagrees with you? Forget judging people equally on actions it’s simply whether you “think like I tell you you should”……or do what I tell you to: bend the knee.

It’s not running away that I’m doing little fella, it’s just acknowledging that no matter what I say, you, and other hard core pro-antifa people like you are just as bigoted as the scum on the right. You are not capabale of reason, nor any views other than your own.

Thomas Richards
938 Posted 06/06/2021 at 15:53:51
It was more the anger in your first paragraph post 918 Mike.
You seemed annoyed.
Steve Brown
939 Posted 06/06/2021 at 15:53:53
Paul, I know black people who don't think it is a pointless exercise.

It's up to the players to choose for themselves how they express their views and fans can do the same.

Andrew Clare
940 Posted 06/06/2021 at 15:54:17
It's great to see the players taking the knee.
Anyone who boos is a racist as far as I am concerned and unfortunately there are lots of them in this country, it's probably the main reason we are no longer in the EU. Even our newspapers are racist, let alone the government.Look at the racism aimed at Marcus Rashford from his own fans after the Europa League final. This is why it is important for players to take the knee and for us to support them doing it so we can stop these nasty individuals and make them realise what they are doing is very wrong.
Will Mabon
941 Posted 06/06/2021 at 15:55:27
Andrew,

yes, so far we're not being linked with many. I guess it could be said that if we had a full DOF situation, where he handled all transfer activity, the lack of a manager would not be holding things up. Recent history shows us as less than dynamic in the market. We also have no accurate idea of just how much transfer money is available; our financial situation says, not a huge amount.

Maybe we'll be surprised.

Barry Rathbone
942 Posted 06/06/2021 at 15:55:29
Once symbolism becomes enforced it becomes what it purportedly fights against - a tool of oppression.

The "knee" is well passed it's sell by date the time to stop it was long ago.

Gary Willock
943 Posted 06/06/2021 at 15:59:17
Steve - big fan on choice, but let’s be real please, any white player who chose not to at the moment would be absolutely pulverised from every angle. Zaha got grief for it, but it would be nothing compared to the grief a white player would get. The media would see the pile on as ok, Mike Gains would sling insults at them all day on social media (which would of course be ok too), and they would potentially risk their entire career. It may be choice, but it’s not real choice. Change the gesture to an armband, and let them chose.
Steve Brown
944 Posted 06/06/2021 at 16:02:31
The right to take the knee is not enforced, Players have chosen to do so and not do so. It is a free choice.

Equally, it is the right of fans to boo when players kneel. It doesn't make them racist. Just a bit simple.

Fran Mitchell
945 Posted 06/06/2021 at 16:02:42
Paul if there was a minutes silence for the victims of VE day, or a minutes silence for the victims of Hillsborough, or a minutes silence for the queen's husband

And a bunch of people booed.

What would that represent, if not being actively against the representation of that minutes silence?

Would we then go 'tell you what, Fran doesn't much like the minutes silence for war heroes, so best not hey'?

A knee against racism...that is all it symbolises.

Marxism? Jesus Christ. Classical way to.respond keep.the status quo, call anything that rocks it as marxist. According to these racists, Marxists rule the world, rule Hollywood z rule everything. bizarre innit. Cause the last time I saw a Marxist meeting, there were about 5 grey haired blokes and a dog.

Kieran Kinsella
946 Posted 06/06/2021 at 16:03:57
Politics out of sport is a funny concept that FIFA sporadically adhere to. And yet they seeded the Euros to ensure Russia couldn’t play Ukraine. South Africa and Yugoslavia were banned for years. Israel have to play in UEFA. So politics does impact sport. That said, equality and human rights are not “politics” in my view they’re basic tenets of a civilized society. The argument that one lady who has since resigned from BLM was a Marxist is a lame excuse to boo. Firstly, how many of the skin head fans know what a Marxist is? Secondly how is her politics relevant? If she started an org to protest child abuse would people boo because she is a Marxist? I think not.
Mike Gaynes
947 Posted 06/06/2021 at 16:04:39
Gary, I thought you were running away. But no, you stay to sling lies. I did not say "anyone who doesn’t agree with it is a “racist”... nor did I say anyone who disagrees with me is a coward, and you know it. I said no such thing. What I said was that kneeling pisses off racists, and I think that's great, and that my wife and I have been subjected to bigotry by cowards. I stand by both statements. You can run away now.

Paul #935, I did not say booing makes you racist. On the contrary, in my response to Will, I endorsed the right to boo. It's free speech. However, the racist abuse that has accompanied the booing at some grounds is not defensible free speech in my opinion.

Thomas #938, you expressed considerable annoyance yourself. I was just wondering why.

Dave Brierley
948 Posted 06/06/2021 at 16:04:51
Mike 928 "If you can't handle my views"
It's not your views Mike it's the way you sometimes express them. You occasionally come across as something of a 'know it all bully boy' which I'm sure you're not.

I'm not sure players kneel to express themselves, some do, some don't. An educated guess tells me that a lot would be scared to go against what they perceive as the consensus. Les Ferdinand and Wilf Zaha don't do it and think it takes the emphasis off better ways to fight racism.

I share Gary's view. It is divisive and I think you'll see a sea change when the fans come back.

And Mike, cut out this "see ya" crap and have a cold beer.

Thomas Richards
949 Posted 06/06/2021 at 16:04:53
Andrew,

My point in a nutshell.
The knee is not stopping any form of racism.
It has no affect on the racists.
If you are poisoned with racism your poisoned mind wont be changed by footballers kneeling.

Alan J Thompson
950 Posted 06/06/2021 at 16:07:58
Thomas(#930); Give it a go and we'll see what happens.
Thomas Richards
951 Posted 06/06/2021 at 16:10:46
"Thomas #938, you expressed considerable annoyance yourself. I was just wondering why"

Where did I express that Mike?

Thomas Richards
952 Posted 06/06/2021 at 16:15:56
Certainly Alan J.

It is a futile gesture that means nothing to the people in my family who the gesture is supposed to support.
Black people have been treated as second class citizens by many people for hundreds of years.
Sportsmen and women kneeling for 10 seconds wont stop that.

Barry Rathbone
953 Posted 06/06/2021 at 16:18:51
Thomas Richards 952

Well said

Mike Gaynes
954 Posted 06/06/2021 at 16:19:22
Dave #948, guilty as charged. On some topics I express my views very strongly, and I fully recognize that my intensity on those occasions can be off-putting. I'm occasionally like that in person as well -- not in any sense a bully, but certainly expressive. Had it not been for the direct physical intercession of my wife and an adjacent friend, I'd likely be in jail right now for "expressing myself" to the people who racially abused her a few months ago. I'm that way.

Thomas #949/952, thus my question as to why what you consider a pointless gesture inspires such strong feelings in you ("A very passionate subject for me"). Do you consider it harmful in some way? Insulting to you personally, or to your family members? It clearly isn't pointless to the players who do it, but are they doing some sort of harm by expressing themselves?

Thomas Richards
955 Posted 06/06/2021 at 16:25:02
They are not doing anything Mike.

Do you know of any racist whose opinion has changed because footballers kneeled?

How many of the footballers kneeling do you consider may be racist themselves?

None?

Barry Hesketh
956 Posted 06/06/2021 at 16:30:52
I don't think that the sporting arena is the place to demonstrate political views of any sort as the attendees are all different and have a variety of views on all aspects of life.

The players can use other arenas to show up racism for what it is, a destructive force that separates people based on some irrational view that one group is superior/inferior to another based on a random outcome of birth.

Players can visit schools, colleges, and other places where youngsters congregate and the players can pass on the reasons why the hateful practice of racism is such a destructive force on society as a whole. Older groups are probably beyond reach in any attempt to 're-educate' them and alter their possibly life-long views.

As for the knee, because of the significant proportion of fans who have shown their disdain for the practice, removal of it now could seem to some as a victory to those who might have racist tendencies.

Personally, there are already too many unnecessary pre-match rituals for my taste, that's not to belittle those taking the knee, but I do think it's time for football to come up with a better way of transmitting its abhorrence to racism, and not to inadvertently give the 'racists' a platform to air their poisoned views whenever the 'taking of the knee' is discussed.

If any of us witness racism, we should call it out for what it is, a cowardly act that has no place in our society, we don't need footballers physically demonstrating that fact, it should be a shared view of all of us without the need to be prompted by others.


Brian Williams
957 Posted 06/06/2021 at 16:32:17
For the "taking the knee" to continue to have an impact it should by now have been a catalyst for things to change.
Nothing seems to have changed, and the fact that some high profile black players (Zaha springs to mind) have decided not to is IMHO them attempting to show their disgust (not at the taking of the knee) but at the fact that nothing has changed.
Not taking the knee is actually focusing more people's attention on taking the knee itself.
I can understand some saying it's no longer required, it hasn't done anything etc etc, but if people just stop then discrimination continues.
Just look at how many black players have been abused online after they've lost an important game.
What the holy fuck is that all about?
And it's probably done by so called supporters of teams that have a multi race line up themselves.
Some people you will just never be able to educate.
Alan J Thompson
958 Posted 06/06/2021 at 16:34:52
Thomas(#952); I don't disagree with that having had a Fijian partner for some time, some years ago. I've been through the accidental and the deliberate racism. Mind you, we were once driving away when somebody of African descent ran alongside the car shouting if, sister, this white man was annoying her. Her answer was that she wasn't his sister.
And many years before that I played cricket in Liverpool with a West Indian (last heard of in Germany 2008) and a few night clubs where he was well known we, or more accurately he, were turned away because there were people already in who would cause trouble if they let him in. When asked why then they were let in was usually just met with a shrug of the shoulders while the door was then shut.

I've heard about the "Promised Land", just not found it yet.

Mike Gaynes
959 Posted 06/06/2021 at 16:43:04
I have no idea on either question, Thomas. All I know is that the players kneeling consider the gesture of value. I don't know if it changes minds. But it certainly raises awareness of the subject. And if that's the point of the gesture, it's not "futile" at all, it's accomplishing what they want to accomplish. We wouldn't be discussing the issue right now if the players weren't kneeling.

Thomas Richards
960 Posted 06/06/2021 at 16:48:39
Barry 956.

The only hope that racism will lessen is to educate the young people. They are the key.

Brian,
Good points in your post at 957.

Alan J.
It is an ongoing problem mate, whilst they are allowed to get away with it, it will continue.
I have been out socially with mates who have had the same treatment as your pal. And all because thier skin was a different colour.
Few times the lads wanted to take it a step further but were always discouraged by the lad getting abuse.
"Leave it, lets just go somewhere else"
Heartbreaking.

Thomas Richards
961 Posted 06/06/2021 at 16:52:54
Mike,

You should ask a football player.

Brent Stephens
962 Posted 06/06/2021 at 16:52:59
Mike, I don't see taking the knee as the be-all-and-end-all of a stance (!) against racism. No one form of action will see off racism. So, the more the forms of opposition to it, the more movement there is likely to be.

Anyway, it seems that, whatever the views on taking the knee, I don't see anybody on here expressing support for racism. That's good.

Phil (Kelsall) Roberts
963 Posted 06/06/2021 at 16:53:09
Just going back to the subject of this thread.

Somehow when I clicked up, it went to about post #700 and I can't be bothered with the next 250+

But I find it interesting that there are posts saying "thank goodness Moyes has signed a 3 year deal at West Ham" - in other words he is not coming back
But then also saying we need a team of battlers and players full of character and who would die for the shirt. Maybe your memories are clearer than mine but what the teams from 2006 to 2013 lacked in quality they more than made up for in terms of character and passion for the club. But there is absolutely no way we would ever want the manager who recruited those players or instilled that character and passion to come back.

It that a paradox?

Mike Gaynes
964 Posted 06/06/2021 at 16:53:29
Barry #956, great thoughtful post, but I would disagree with your initial statement.

I'm old enough to remember the worldwide earthquake caused by the gloved-fist demonstrations of Tommie Smith and John Carlos in the 1968 Olympics. That changed nothing at the time, or in the immediate years to follow, but 50 years on it is viewed as a seminal moment in racial awareness. And that impact, however delayed, was due largely to the venue -- an international sporting stage.

I would also disagree that older folks are too set in their ways to alter their racial views. I have personally experienced otherwise.

Alan J Thompson
965 Posted 06/06/2021 at 16:58:03
Thomas(#960); That's the way it usually ended and my mate at one time was the British Army middleweight boxing champion. And a couple of times my lady would ask what that arguement was about and I'd just say, oh, a couple of stupid gets.
Mike Gaynes
966 Posted 06/06/2021 at 16:58:14
I did, Thomas. Couple of them, secondhand, through "journos" I know from my days in the profession. Produced some interesting responses.

But connections like mine aren't necessary. Many athletes are directly reachable online and will respond to thoughtful questions.

Thomas Richards
967 Posted 06/06/2021 at 17:06:25
What was thier response Mike?

Alan J.

Usually gets the message across.

Gary Willock
968 Posted 06/06/2021 at 17:12:58
Mike - I’m genuinely sorry that you, your wife (or anyone else for that matter!) suffered bigotry…..full stop.

Bigotry exists, and will always exist….hopefully though in ever decreasing numbers.

However, since the early 90’s ‘John Barnes bananas’ society in the UK has taken massive strides on racism! I’ve worked all round the Uk (granted, mostly in office environment) and I just don’t believe it exists in any great number, and certainly not in the open or institutionalised in any way. Quite the opposite.

Where it does exist, those people aren’t going to stop by some sports players bowing down to the media driven frenzy. You think it “pisses them off”, whereas I think they find it nothing other than peculiar. Some will even be incentivised by it, and will see it as if the division offers them opportunity.

Also, as I said on my first post on this subject: BLM ISN’T just about anti-racism. The fact YOU were attacking “conservatives” within your 3rd post is telling of the real political motivation behind it. Like it or loath it, in your country or mine, conservatives (small c!) represent about 50% of the voters (simplified to save debate). They aren’t going to support it, and they ARE NOT racists or bigots because they don’t.

So, why not just come up with something new and unique to football? A symbol, an armband, a hug, whatever and we all get behind it? One where all racism, all violence and all oppression is stood against, and that all political groups can get behind?

Either that, or just keep all politics out of football…..and go back to the “kick it out” campaign that managed to turn a world that sport that threw bananas into the all inclusive business it already is today.

Paul A Smith
969 Posted 06/06/2021 at 17:29:46
There needs to be a true definition of a racist person or what determines if someone is racist.

If a person was to say I don't think black managers make good managers but I think black people are the best 100 metre sprinters, what does that make them?

Its a very complicated subject and there are comments made that 2 people of black race will disagree on.

I believe people should only be judged on personality because that is what you face when you engage with someone.

Best thing for me is to give everyone a chance until they don't deserve it and treat everyone the same.

Kneeling down in a group where it feels forced wouldn't give me any substance to say changes are positive.

Lets face it, anyone who stays stood up, his reputation would be destroyed even if he had legitimate reasons and stood for the cause in a different way.

James Flynn
970 Posted 06/06/2021 at 17:30:09
Phil (963) - We need a consistent, year-in and out team build. Moyes, a career minor leaguer walked into Everton and did just that on a shoestring budget. The football side of the Club became professional.

He built a scouting system, brought in a fitness team from the States, even brought in a team of geeks to do statistical analysis. Did it all by himself. If that's true, and it is, how are we now, years-in, throwing money everywhere with a whole upper-management team in place and getting nowhere since he left?

It's Moyes' organizational abilities wanted, just not him. If that makes sense.

Barry Lightfoot
971 Posted 06/06/2021 at 17:38:51
Paul 969 Wilfred Zaha refused to take the knee he said he'd fight racism his way.
Paul A Smith
972 Posted 06/06/2021 at 17:43:53
Barry 971 I was really alluding to anyone non black mate. I seen Saha's stance and liked the way he thought outside narrative.

This is a sky thing aswell by the way lets not forget they love highlighting it to paint themselves in another light and keep their customer base up.

Anything highlighted in football usually only benefits the media companies. Before you know it, people are talking about it with no feelings.

Like 9/11 to anyone that didn't lose a family member or friend. First off you are devastated for those who suffer until its played so often you just talk about it as a story.

Barry Rathbone
973 Posted 06/06/2021 at 18:28:56
Phil 963

"Maybe your memories are clearer than mine but what the teams from 2006 to 2013 lacked in quality they more than made up for in terms of character and passion for the club"

Not so much memories being clearer more totally different.

My memories of Moyes teams were on the whole a group of predictable, characterless,surrender monkeys who cravenly collapsed at almost any challenge hence never challenging for a bean in a decade.

The Wigan stuffing in the qtr final at Goodison of all places wasn't even a surprise more a summation of the Moyes decade.

Re Moyes, as every year passes it seems the reality of his tenure becomes supplanted by fantasy

Will Mabon
974 Posted 06/06/2021 at 18:51:40
"The Wigan stuffing in the qtr final at Goodison of all places..."


Barry, this one is in the Top Ten Unmentionable Games list. Shame on you.

Paul Hewitt
975 Posted 06/06/2021 at 18:58:06
We need to sort the manager situation Next week. Clubs are already getting new signings in.
Derek Taylor
976 Posted 06/06/2021 at 19:38:28
I have never been a great fan of Moyes although I always thought him a steady 'pair of hands'.

Thinking through managers we have suffered through the years since Joe Royle 'took a hike', I confess the Scot is the only one I could think of re-appointing even if only the best of a bad lot !

Robert Tressell
977 Posted 06/06/2021 at 19:48:00
Just looked at the list of managers shortlisted for the Spurs job. Not unlike our shortlist - except Benitez, Moyes and Ferguson don't seem to be in the reckoning for fairly obvious reasons. An interesting new name (for me) popped up - Edin Terzic, the young interim coach who turned Dortmund's season around.

Terzic is not getting the Dortmund job permanently. He's 38 and speaks excellent English apparently, having been on the coaching staff at West Ham with Bilic. Looks like Spurs and Palace very interested. Could obviously be a flash in the pan.

Any thoughts from the German residents and Bundesliga followers?

Joe McMahon
978 Posted 06/06/2021 at 20:05:49
Robert @977, I just received a text, from lets just say a source in the know, David Unsworth will be confirmed as Spurs Boss tomorrow. Apparently Spurs have agreed to move all training facilities to the local playing fields near Davids house in the North West.
Grant Rorrison
979 Posted 06/06/2021 at 20:06:37
Phil 963. Character? Moyes teams? You must have forgotten the semi-final against the RS that we threw away from a half-time 1 nil lead. Or the Sporting Lisbon second-leg where we went to just hang on for a nil-nil and got taken apart 3 nil.

Playing negative, within your comfort zone, shite, isn't 'character' even if it sometimes keeps the score down and improves your goals against column over the course of a season.

Paul A Smith
980 Posted 06/06/2021 at 20:20:15
Robert I don't know much about Bundesliga coaches but I like the sound of pursuing the Lille coach.
Robert Tressell
981 Posted 06/06/2021 at 20:25:00
Joe - that's big news. Bassala Sambou to replace the outbound Harry Kane perhaps?
Jack Convery
982 Posted 06/06/2021 at 20:46:46
Are Spurs looking at Moyes Mr Kenwright ?
BK - No.
Do you wonder why ?
BK - No ?
There's the problem of having you as Everton Chairman. Comprende ?
Danny O’Neill
983 Posted 06/06/2021 at 22:48:21
Robert Tressell, what an interesting shout that I had't even considered. My Schalke leaning probably makes me not look that way!!

Everyone who bothers to look at my ramblings knows my admiration of the German game and their coaching. Repetition time; their coaches know how to combine managing big names with developing youth, have tactical nous and can generate passion.

We (I) mentioned Rangnick, but that could be problematic because of his seniority; I've commented my opinion on that one enough.

With the recent German managerial merry-go-round that has happened recently, I'd have looked at Marco Rose, who was the Monchengladbach coach. But he is going to take over Dortmund funnily enough, which may free up Terzic.

This guy is a young up and coming coach who has just won the German equivalent of the FA Cup with one of the biggest clubs in European football. He was Klopp's "Unsworth" at Dortmund, coaching the academy and also, has worked in the Premier League with West Ham under Bilic if I recall? That's the other interesting dynamic to him; German but of Croatian origin, another country that churns out quality footballers regularly so to have access to both those markets would great.

I'll say again, what a great call. Robert, can you give Marcel Brands an advisory call tomorrow? I like that one.

We'd have to teach him not to sing that song that should never be mentioned on sites like this though.

Mike Gaynes
984 Posted 07/06/2021 at 00:24:40
Robert #977, I watch Dortmund every game they play, and I've become a big Terzic fan. He did a great job of getting their young players smiling at each other again, and he pulled their unraveling season back together. He shored up their leaky defense nicely without pulling back on that youthful attack at all.

I'm surprised that you say he's not getting the job full-time... last news item I saw (and I haven't checked today) was that he turned down Eintracht to stay at Dortmund. I'd read somewhere previously that Haaland likes Terzic so much he might stay one more season rather than fly off to Madrid or Manchester.

https://www.fearthewall.com/2021/5/19/22444550/bild-edin-terzic-has-turned-down-eintracht-frankfurt-dortmund-rose-hutter-england-premier-league

If that's true, Terzic won't be moving anywhere.

Albert Perkins
985 Posted 07/06/2021 at 03:23:52
Mike Gaynes, I'm supporting you in the difficult issues around race and taking the knee. So sorry about the terrible family experiences. Every one of my friends of color have shared their many, many experiences of institutional racism. I think booing taking the knee is yet another expression of institutional racism. It's so institutionalized that people can miss the reality of it. Those of us with white skins have an automatic privilege. There is not enough acceptance of this. And I think we are going with Nuno. Bet he gets racially profiled driving his fancy car. Sorry, couldn't help myself. COYB. BLM.
Mike Gaynes
986 Posted 07/06/2021 at 04:09:29
Albert #985, "Bet he gets racially profiled driving his fancy car."

I know you're kidding, but that's exactly how I first truly learned about white privilege and institutionalized racism 25 years ago. I captained a team whose star striker was an immigrant from Sudan. He was a highly-paid cargo supervisor at Oakland Airport, working nights, and was regularly pulled over in his new Mercedes going home at 4am for DWB (Driving While Black) by cops who found his car incompatible with his color. The night before our promotion final, two of them decided he'd stolen the car. Without even checking the license and registration, they yanked him out and beat the shit out of him. He showed up for the game with a broken wrist, a swollen face and stitches in his scalp.

I had reached my late 30's without ever having had a conversation like that with a black man. I'd been in a clueless bubble. That day opened my eyes. They've been steadily opened wider ever since.

Danny O’Neill
987 Posted 07/06/2021 at 06:47:10
Thought I'd read that Rose, last seasons Gladbach manager had taken the Dortmund job Mike.
Robert Tressell
988 Posted 07/06/2021 at 07:25:15
I read the same thing Danny. It sounds like Terzic could stay at Dortmund under Rose if he wants but may leave to progress his career. Article I read says he's unlikely to take another Bundesliga job because he's so died in the wool Dortmund but only linked to Palace and Spurs so far.
Danny O’Neill
989 Posted 07/06/2021 at 08:52:32
I'll go and use some mouthwash after this one Robert, but if he's available and is considering the Premier League as a career move, I hope his previous manager is having a word in his ear about Merseyside as a destination.
Mike Gaynes
990 Posted 07/06/2021 at 16:20:45
Danny and Robert, you're right about Rose. I hadn't realized that was signed and sealed.

That being the case, Terzic would be a fascinating possibility for us. He's only 38 or so but his gifts are obvious.

Robert Tressell
991 Posted 07/06/2021 at 16:59:42
I hadn't even heard the name before seeing the Spurs odds, Mike. Sounds like there's a good chance he could manage in the Premier League with, say, Palace or even a team like West Brom – but a heck of a risk for us and Spurs at just 38.
Danny O’Neill
992 Posted 07/06/2021 at 17:20:06
Now I am just being totally demanding and / or imaginative, bordering on fantasy. It's all speculation at the end of the day.

Brands steps up a level. We bring in Rangnick with Terzic working under him. Rangnick has just done that with the 33 year old Nagelmanns at Leipzig, who has just been appointed Bayern coach. It would would need a management restructuring, but if we have ambition, that's worth thinking about if there is even a sniff of it being on the cards.

I appreciate that's me stuck in my Danny-land. I'll wake up at 3am again this morning and realise nothing has happened and we're probably going to appoint Duncan Ferguson next week after weeks of deliberation.

Ken Kneale
993 Posted 07/06/2021 at 17:28:38
Moyes and his team were serial losers and he personally along with his Chairman created the horrific mentality and media narrative we suffered from as some form of 'best of the rest' and plucky Everton that the media took hold of - now not even that after Kenwright's continued meddling in all affairs of the club thanks to a very gullible owner.

David Moyes and the like have dragged this club down to their lowest ever standing in football terms - any return should not be countenanced - we should be aiming for much higher than his journeyman standard of management and coaching

Jimmy Hogan
994 Posted 07/06/2021 at 17:36:10
Ken #993, although I'm not a massive fan of Moyes, you have done him a severe disservice. He turned us into a top 6 club and twice won manager of the year awards.

I don't want him back, but neither will I slander him, because he built a far better team than the one we have today and with no funds. If he'd had the kind of money made available to him as the last few managers had, one wonders what he might have achieved. However, as I said, never go back.

Ed Fitzgerald
995 Posted 07/06/2021 at 17:58:21
Jimmy @994

We were in the top 6 in five of the eleven seasons that Moyes was here. Moyes should have been sacked after we finished 17th in 2003-04. I don't think that made us a top 6 side under his management. His record at other clubs apart from last season at West Ham is poor.

Gordon Lee's team finished in the top 4 in two of his four seasons (3rd in 77-78) at Everton before being rightly sacked In 1980. I'm not purporting Gordon Lee as a Everton great but I know which team I preferred watching. I don't understand the veneration that some Evertonians hold David Moyes in, it's baffling to me.

Joe McMahon
996 Posted 07/06/2021 at 18:05:57
I don't get it why are people still talking about Moyes, all it does is underline what Rafa said about Everton.

As I stated a few days ago, the lot across the Park sacked Houllier, he won 5 shiny trophies in approx 5 years. That does put Moyes 11 years of no wins at Anfield, FA Cup Semi surrender v Liverpool and losing the FA QF v Wigan into perspective.

Steve Brown
997 Posted 07/06/2021 at 18:11:18
Sport doesn't operate in a vacuum and will reflect and respond to wider societal issues like racism. Players have the democratic right to express their view by any symbolic act they choose within the laws of this country.

The fans who booed might feel that racism is over-played, that taking the knee is a pointless exercise or driven by views that they disagree with. But to jeer the England and Romanian players for freely expressing their opposition to racism was entirely shameful. These players are different races and play for our clubs, they are often trolled and racially abused on social media and, like Mike Gaynes and his wife, will have suffered racist episodes in their own lives.

The reaction from certain segments of fans will undoubtedly ensure that players continue to take the knee, as they will not take a back down when confronted with such a response. More power to them.

Ray Robinson
998 Posted 07/06/2021 at 18:15:07
I don't know who the next manager should be but, British or foreign, he needs to already have detailed knowledge of the Premier League and of Everton.

We can't have another manager, unfamiliar with the situation here, take six months assessing the squad, giving everyone a chance to prove themselves (again), only to reach the conclusion that we the supporters already know, namely that we have a severely dsyfunctional midfield.

Incoming transfers to inject dynamism, pace and mobility can't wait another transfer window. Incoming transfers are as important as the choice of the new manager, in my opinion.

Paul Tran
999 Posted 07/06/2021 at 18:52:35
The funniest thing about yesterday's kneeling issues was that 'English common sense patriot' Martin Daubney, who hit new heights by telling Twitter that two English players 'didn't take the knee', before realising that it was Romania playing in white and deleting his tweet.

Danny O’Neill
1000 Posted 07/06/2021 at 18:55:51
Ed 995 & Joe 996, good posts.

The Gordon Lee reference is good. His top 4 finishes in the context of what that meant at the time in terms of European competition where arguably equivalent of finishing top 7 now would you say? So at the time, not good enough.

I don't want to talk about Moyes, but yet again we're back here. Move forward.

But, as we are here and for what it's worth, my take has always been the same. Came in and done what was necessary at the time. Grateful for the job he done at the time and he done it well.

Couldn't take us further and I started getting concerns with that. He first properly lost me with the semi final. I was fuming and arguing (on my own) with London reds that day who were trying to take this piss out of me.We lost to the most average Liverpool team in my lifetime because we didn't have the bottle to keep doing what we had been doing in the first half. The difference being they didn't know how to have a constructive football argument. And then the Wigan capitulation. That was it for me with Moyes.

Once there was or is expectation, he is the master of playing it down to keep us fans in check.

Anyway, about Terzic. Given I will wake up in the middle of the night thinking about Everton's next manager, I might get the Rosary Beads out. I like that one now Robert Tresses has planted the seed and Mike Gaynes has given his blessing!!

Daniel A Johnson
1001 Posted 07/06/2021 at 18:59:28
For anyone still pining for Don Carlo read this just for the fond memories

Everton 2020-21 Season Review: Five Worst Games

Stephen Vincent
1002 Posted 07/06/2021 at 19:04:53
Ken #993,

I wholeheartedly endorse everything you posted. The biggest condemnation of Moyes is that he turned Nil satis nisi optimum into

Mediocris est gratum and for that I will never forgive him. Along with 7-0 at Highbury, 6-1 at home to Arsenal, 5-0 in Bucharest, not even a sniff of a trophy in 11 years, 'knife to a gun fight', etc etc etc.

So please no more Moyes back to Goodison posts.
Ever.

Steavey Buckley
1003 Posted 07/06/2021 at 19:06:41
Whoever the next Everton manager is, has to recognise and realise that Everton players usually get managers sacked. With Ancelotti, he just ran away from them by the way they play football by constantly giving the ball away or running into trouble with ball.

Everton is one of the hardest clubs to manage because players are on fabulous contracts and not worried if they are not picked, but will stay at the club until their contracts run out.

Danny O’Neill
1004 Posted 07/06/2021 at 19:12:56
So change the players Steavey. We need better players. Not those who have been stinking this club out for years with their mediocracy.
Anthony Murphy
1005 Posted 07/06/2021 at 19:13:06
Over 1000 posts on the same thread. Is that a first on TW?
Danny O’Neill
1006 Posted 07/06/2021 at 19:14:14
It's because we're not sleeping or eating Anthony.

Well I'm not!!!

Rob Halligan
1007 Posted 07/06/2021 at 19:16:57
Danny, that sanitarium that I posted yesterday must be filling up at a rate of knots. Everyone needs to chill out! 😁😁
Brian Harrison
1008 Posted 07/06/2021 at 19:24:08
I have always said never go back whether it be a player or a manager it never works out a second time, only have to look at Howards 2nd and even worse 3rd spell to know that. Half a billion pounds later and we still havent progressed in fact quite the opposite, I think that's why some are suggesting a return of Moyes as his successors apart from Martinez's first year have failed miserably.

Also reading that we are about to offer Nuno a 3 year deal makes it even more likely in 18 months time we will be looking for yet another new manager. I like everyone else have no idea who we will appoint, but I think the appointment might tell us a lot about how much more Moshiri and Usmanov intend to plough into the club, while providing funds for the new stadium. I think we only have to see how little Arsenal and Spurs spent on players while building their new stadiums, to know that with revenues decimated because of Covid we wont be spending much in the next 3/4 years. I would just add if we hire Nuno and it doesnt work and limited money spent on this squad could see us in deeper trouble than we have been over the last 5 years.

Ed Fitzgerald
1009 Posted 07/06/2021 at 19:24:48
Danny @1000

Just read your comment about finishing 3rd in 1977-78 and it being comparable to finishing 7th now and I can't agree really. I was 16 back then and thought my mind might be playing tricks on me, so I checked up on the data. We finished with a goal difference of plus 31 and scored 76 goals which was pretty amazing given Lee's dour image.

Steavey Buckley
1010 Posted 07/06/2021 at 19:29:36
Danny, it is not possible for players to leave if they don't want to go. All that happens is more players add to a bloated squad no manager wants. Good luck to any new manager who wants different players, but can't buy them because players he doesn't want don't want to leave Everton. Besic saw out his long contract until the last few weeks.
Dale Self
1011 Posted 07/06/2021 at 19:29:51
This could go on a while given the club doesn't want to draw attention to its soiled pants and it might also be an indication that we're getting someone who is strictly to be supplied players by Mr Brands.
Danny O’Neill
1012 Posted 07/06/2021 at 19:44:58
The context I was trying to portray is that 3rd in 1977 didn't get you into Europe's top competition. To do that you had to win the league.

Now you can finish 4th and do that. So in that context, 6th or 7th is the new 3rd or 4th if that makes sense?

That's the point I was trying to make, not take anything away from Gordon Lee finishing 3rd.

John Boswell
1013 Posted 07/06/2021 at 19:54:59
If, as has been suggested in earlier posts, the new manager will not be able to make many purchases due to spending limits and if he needs to be Premier League savvy and be familiar with our current squad and be capable of getting a tune out of them (what a long sentence) to, as a bare minimum maintain our membership of the Premier League and stay with us while the new ground is built, then, I believe that we should look closely at Sean Dyche who appears to be close to signing a new contract at Burnley.
COYB
John Skelly
1014 Posted 07/06/2021 at 20:00:11
This not a radical political post or have I been misled? Anyway… come on Big Dunc.
Michael Boardman
1015 Posted 07/06/2021 at 20:03:33
We have "lost" a few players this year, and not on minimum wage either. I suspect a couple of sellable assets will leave too (Paul, could improve the B/S position), which will free up some funds...or are we arsed? Let's see what happens if we screw FFP and let the new manager rip.
Ian Horan
1016 Posted 07/06/2021 at 20:23:40
The speed we appear to be moving at we can reappoint Carlo when Madrid sack him in October!!!
Chris Hockenhull
1017 Posted 07/06/2021 at 20:38:14
1013... dear lord,.. the ashen-faced Burnley supremo???? I really think Evertonians deserve what we get!
Andrew James
1018 Posted 07/06/2021 at 21:41:34
Daniel @1001

Thanks for that. I have tried forgetting some of the comical performances this season but those are all fresh in the memory which probably justifies their ranking.

It would have been nice if the article had done more analysis, like looking at the line ups and tactics. Irrelevant now as he's gone but before many of our defeats, on seeing the line up, I often feared the worst and couldn't understand what Ancelotti was doing.

There were too many times Gylfi got played in a deep lying midfield role or there was no mobility in the midfield or down the sides.

While I hope I won't miss our calmness against sides like Arsenal, Leicester and at Anfield, I definitely won't miss the counter productive nonsense served up for a third of the season.

Jeff Armstrong
1019 Posted 07/06/2021 at 22:03:30
Another point about Gordon Lee’s finishes was the league had 22 teams back then, so if you knock off the top 2 he damn well won the league!
Justin Doone
1020 Posted 08/06/2021 at 07:07:20
If you plan on giving someone a short term chance and see how it goes, it will go as planned.

In Carlo there seemed an acceptance that Everton are not a one season fix. It would take 2 or 3 seasons before we could challenge the top 4.

We have to plan for the longer term, hoping stability will set us up for a positive future.

Brands has to bring in the right players, regardless of manager.

Ed Fitzgerald
1021 Posted 08/06/2021 at 07:17:34
Danny @1012,

Apologies – I misread your intention. As I said, I wasn't championing Lee's tenure whatsoever.

Danny O’Neill
1022 Posted 08/06/2021 at 08:28:50
No apologies needed Ed.

Although I remember Gordon Lee, the most I remember about that period was my Dad's rants about us not being good enough. Apart from Duncan McKenzie. He liked Duncan McKenzie a lot. I still to this day think his opinion of that era was still blighted by the fact Alan Ball and Howard Kendall didn't play for Everton anymore! To the point he regularly used to track Southampton's results when Ball signed for them!!

Sums up the predicament we've got ourselves into Steavey. The eternal (probably ill-informed) optimist in me thinks we're through the worst of that. But there are still a few windows required to get rid of the average and bring in better.

Bobby Mallon
1023 Posted 08/06/2021 at 08:40:07
What about thinking outside the box and go for a woman manager? — say The Chelsea manager.
Phil Lewis
1024 Posted 08/06/2021 at 09:19:37
Nuno would be my choice without hesitation. A young, hungry, tactically aware, astute footballing brain, with proven connections.

In addition to his appointment, I would welcome his whole staff. Which means a clearout within our club that is long overdue. A complete cull of the 'Jobs for the boys' brigade, of minor managerial and backroom staff, is long overdue. There is no room for sentiment. Ferguson, Unsworth and the rest of our former under achievers need to be removed. Their presence only serves to perpetuate a technically substandard approach which has been patently obvious in both performances and results for far too long.

I admire Duncan Ferguson's enthusiasm. I'm certain his intentions are genuine and honourable. But I believe it's in his best interests to go to a lesser club first and prove his managerial credentials, before being considered for any future post with Everton.

As for Unsworth, he along with his cronies, are nonentities who ought to be discarded with immediately. They serve no purpose to the club. As with many of the playing staff, they are reaping considerable benefits under false pretences and need to be removed.

A new dawn. A fresh approach. Enterprising, exciting, entertaining football, played in the manner to which Evertonians old enough to remember demand. I believe Nuno Espirito Santo to be the man to deliver as much.

Ancelotti's departure could prove a blessing in disguise. His tactics were negative. His results spoke for themselves. His man-management skills seemingly ineffective. He was turfed out of Italy and was given a hefty sum of money to walk his dogs and see out the pandemic on Crosby beach, thank you very much. It will be interesting to see how he fares at Real Madrid, as his lack of success in recent years seems very similar to Mourhino's downward spiral.

Thomas Richards
1025 Posted 08/06/2021 at 09:27:23
Nuno for me out of all the names on the list.
Joe O'Brien
1026 Posted 08/06/2021 at 13:38:54
Looks like Nuno going to be confirmed as the new Palace manager.
Marc Hints
1027 Posted 08/06/2021 at 13:40:32
Nuno is out of the running then - now thats interesting!
Brian Wilkinson
1028 Posted 08/06/2021 at 13:46:21
Feel for those who took the 2/5 for him being next Everton Manager, I still have my cheeky £5 at 16/1 from last week on Duncan Ferguson to be in charge of the first ten games, seems the logical choice to me to try a different route,instead of Managers that have looked decent at other clubs, then bombed at Everton.

One important thing in life, odds will always change for next Manager, bookies act on rumours, so never take for granted that an odds on is going to be the next Manager, use logic and try and use your own judgement, when having a punt, go with your gut feeling, no matter what the odds are.

Not sure of Eddie Howes odds, but he could be worth a little punt.

Marc Hints
1029 Posted 08/06/2021 at 13:58:41
Brian @1028

I am seeing a lot of reports now about Graham Potter!

Anthony Murphy
1030 Posted 08/06/2021 at 14:02:43
Maybe Potter told the Everton board that similar to Ancellotti, he also isn’t a magician - but he is a wizard
Simon Dalzell
1031 Posted 08/06/2021 at 14:03:32
I hope the Nuno to Palace rumors have substance. Underwhelmed at the prospect of him managing us.
Andrew Ellams
1032 Posted 08/06/2021 at 14:13:55
Marc @ 1029, I think the media are making their own stories up now because they aren't getting anything from the club.

A few weeks ago they had Nuno Espirito Santo as the new Spurs manager, then they had him at Everton but as far as we actually know the only club he's had meaningful talks with in that time are Palace. Potter is the next manager with Premier League experience on their list.

Marc Hints
1033 Posted 08/06/2021 at 14:20:29
Andrew @1032,

Yes, think you’re right, it would probably be a different story every other day.

We don't really know if we are interested in Nuno or actually had talks to be honest, just seems to be all media talk.

Christopher Timmins
1034 Posted 08/06/2021 at 14:33:23
Moshiri did not accumulate his wealth from the game. His knowledge of the game is limited, therefore, as owner of the business and after making mistake after mistake after mistake with regards to the appointment of new managers I would expect him to hand over the task of appointing the next one to Brands.

If Brands takes charge of the appointment then we are looking at a young up and coming coach will take the club forward.

Matthew Williams
1035 Posted 08/06/2021 at 14:51:39
Another Everton first eh Bobby?#1023... interesting shout,but there's more chance of my man from Deeside getting the nod!.
Alan Johnson
1036 Posted 08/06/2021 at 15:30:54
Sky Sports announce it’s Potter, 3-year deal.m
Ed Prytherch
1037 Posted 08/06/2021 at 15:39:29
We have dodged a bullet if the Nuno stories are true. The last thing that we need is a requirement to speak fluent Portuguese to be an active member of the coaching staff. We have been there before.
Brian Wilkinson
1038 Posted 08/06/2021 at 15:46:26
Marc@1029, yes will gets lots of different rumours, potter is the latest one, next couple of Days will then be Rafa, with a couple of foreign coaches linked.

My head says eventually it will come down to either Eddie Howe, or Duncan, I may be wrong pure guess work.

But I am thinking about logic and who may be in the thoughts of our chairman and fans, whereas the tabloids are using just guess work at various Managers, who are available.

I would ignore if a Managers odds come tumbling down, bookmakers do it to try and get punters to back the favourite, think as an Evertonian, and back your own judgement, and not rumours and bookies short odds.

Martin Mason
1039 Posted 08/06/2021 at 15:55:17
Potter for me, he had a very good season with Brighton and so Just the right profile and worth a punt. If not then Parker from Fulham.
Kevin Molloy
1040 Posted 08/06/2021 at 15:58:24
There must be a risk that Moshiri draws from this episode the conclusion that some clubs just can't be 'scaled up' whatever you do. If it' is Potter, whilst he is a good coach, is he strong enough to dominate the backroom staff at Everton? That seems like a clique waiting to happen. And the players don't seem v happy either. I'm starting to worry that we may be falling into the time Liverpool had with Hodgson, with the King hanging on his shoulder waiting for the big pay packet. Only this time swap Kenny for Duncan.
Francis van Lierop
1041 Posted 08/06/2021 at 16:19:20
Although I voted for Lucien Favre, I have warmed to the idea of Ralf Rangnick and Edin Terzic. The former is most probably unlikely, but Terzic is the kind of building manager we need.

Marcel Brands comes from Den Bosch, towards the south-east of our country. The more you go eastwards (Eindhoven..), the more they watch German football on Sportschau. So most likely Brands will well aware of these names.

That so many Evertonians keep calling for Moyes and Ferguson saddens me. For me, that is looking backwards. If Ferguson wants to become a manager, he wants to take up the post at Morecambe, as somebody else mentioned. If he has what it takes, then we can consider him. Although take in account that Lampard was doing okay at Derby, but that wasn't good enough at Chelsea.

Mike Corcoran
1042 Posted 08/06/2021 at 16:37:24
#1041 Favre is a good shout! Terzic is interesting too.
Andrew McLawrence
1043 Posted 08/06/2021 at 17:47:06
So it seems that our stock is fallen so far that we can't even attract a mid table manager to our mid table club. NES to Palace I'm hearing.
Danny O’Neill
1044 Posted 08/06/2021 at 17:57:32
Francis @1041. I lived in Krefeld and Soest in Germany as a younger child and was then stationed near Heinsberg myself so very close to the Dutch border. Eindhoven was only a a 30 minute drive and our closet main town was actually Roermond on the Dutch side, so I know that area well. We visit every year to a place called Effeld, and skirt between the German and Dutch border on walks and bike rides.

Anyway, back on topic, its always surprised me that Brands hasn't looked that way more in terms of player recruitment given his roots and the standard of player produced in Germany, Holland and Belgium. As I've said before, I'd throw Denmark into that mix too.

Tony Abrahams
1045 Posted 08/06/2021 at 18:40:44
Lovely part of the world that, Danny, and it brings back a lot of fond memories about the World Cup in Germany that I was going on about the other day, because our base was actually a hoseasons in this area of Holland, right beside this little lake, that we used to go across in our van everyday, so was a brilliant shortcut!

I've just said on another thread that I'm sure Potter is on a very long contact at Brighton, so it might be cheaper for Moshiri taking a manager who is not currently under contract at any club?

Rob Halligan
1046 Posted 08/06/2021 at 18:46:52
Tony, Potter joined Brighton in May 2019 on a 4-year contract, so still has 2 years to run.
Danny O’Neill
1047 Posted 08/06/2021 at 18:52:20
It is, Tony.

My son is telling me there are growing rumours about the Lille coach.

Any followers of French football know any substance in that?

Robert Tressell
1048 Posted 08/06/2021 at 18:54:32
I think Potter must have signed a new deal as he's now said to be under contract till June 2025. Might be quite hefty compensation - so your point is a good one Tony.

Steven Telford
1049 Posted 08/06/2021 at 19:01:58
If we miss out on Nuno to Crystal Palace... he is as perfect a fit for us as regards what's out there.

I see a lot of pros and few (if any) cons about him.

Joe McMahon
1050 Posted 08/06/2021 at 19:14:34
I'm probably in the minority but I'd prefer Nuno to Potter. I work with a Wolves fan who is gutted he left.
Francis van Lierop
1051 Posted 08/06/2021 at 19:19:39
Danny @ 1047

If so, then it's positive move.

Lille beat PSG for the French Championship.

Others have named Christophe Galtier before.

The only thing I saw of them was when they played Ajax in the Champions League. They had good players, but Ajax persevered.

Kevin Molloy
1052 Posted 08/06/2021 at 20:03:15
I'm a bit dubious about french coaches. Other than Wenger they've all bombed, and I suspect Lille's success this year has been more about the fact Pocch hasn't settled.
Andrew Grey
1053 Posted 08/06/2021 at 21:33:50
Phil Lewis
1054 Posted 09/06/2021 at 10:46:57
Im sorry to say that it would appear Nuno is set for Palace.
The conclusion to be drawn is that Unsworth Ferguson and the rest of the backroom dross are firmly entrenched, curtesy of Boys Pen Bill and Little Miss Dynamite, another pair of leeches. Nuno quite correctly wanted his own team of backroom appointments. This was seemingly rejected. A massive mistake and a missed opportunity to turn the team around in my opinion. He will do well at Palace given a free reign.
And the cancer within our club continues to fester.
Andrew Grey
1055 Posted 09/06/2021 at 11:18:16
Nuno favourite in the betting again?
Ryan Holroyd
1056 Posted 09/06/2021 at 11:19:33
Phil

The talks between Palace and Nuno have broken down due to Nuno wanting to take his staff with him.

Danny O’Neill
1057 Posted 09/06/2021 at 11:45:45
So how is he going to take to having Duncan imposed on him I wonder? I've gone off this idea. If that's why it's broken down with Palace then if he's on how does this work?

1. Nuno in. Duncan out.
2. Nuno in, rates Duncan so keeps him.
3. Nuno doesn't take the job.

Michael Boardman
1058 Posted 09/06/2021 at 11:45:53
Martin #1039 - I think peaky blinders Parker is a good shout. He's done well at Fulham, and comes across very well in the media, and seems to cope with Mitrovic's tantrums with the minimum of fuss. Rumours are he's considering Bournemouth, so can't be that chuffed at Fulham, but he's a "Landan" boy so may not fancy up here (although he did play for New-castle for a while).
Tom Bowers
1059 Posted 09/06/2021 at 11:47:44
All the usual media rhetoric again. Yes he is, no he isn't.

We never really know the real facts with players or managers so we just have to sit tight and hope the right decisions are made.

Nuno had some pull with Portuguese imports and they have done well but lightening very rarely strikes twice.
We will have to see if we get lucky and the same goes for Moyes if he is brought back. Although he had done quite well at Goodison with very little funding it never became apparent he was ever going to build a bright attacking team and whilst his work at West Ham has been satisfactory it was only after the loan spell of Lingard that changed things and his work at Manure, Sociedad and Sunderland was not noteworthy.

Phil Lewis
1060 Posted 09/06/2021 at 11:54:00
Ryan 1056#
That surprises me given the time spent negotiating. He's bound to be loyal to trusted staff. Portugal has emerged as a major European force in recent years. Nuno would no doubt have his finger on the pulse of every Portuguese player. That, alongside his own abilities only enhances his attraction. I understand it's difficult for clubs to dispense with existing staff overnight, but it seems the only way to secure his services is to do so.
I believe a complete backroom overhaul would only benefit us anyway. So if there is any slight chance of us getting him, for me it would be a win win situation.
Michael Boardman
1061 Posted 09/06/2021 at 11:57:14
Wolves just appointed someone call lager - not sure if first name Heineken or what. He was assistant at Sheff Wed and Swansea, won the Portuguese league when Benfica couldn't lose it a couple of years ago (joined mid-season) and then was sacked the year after...as they weren't going to win the league that year. We think we've got problems - I'm having a few quid on them to go down next season as they're basically run by an agent
Matthew Williams
1062 Posted 09/06/2021 at 14:42:49
Any football manager who called his autobiography..."The good,the mad and the ugly" gets my vote 💯%,all the shite that Andy Morrison has been through...jeez,managing our beloved club would be a piece of piss in comparison.

Btw folks,the finest game I saw this season was... TNS 1 NOMADS 4.

As for a Blues game...erm?,did we even play a half decent game all season??.

Andrew McLawrence
1063 Posted 09/06/2021 at 16:36:40
Sky Bet have suspended betting on Benitez. God help us.
Pat Kelly
1064 Posted 09/06/2021 at 16:54:34
The suspense is terrible. I hope it will last - Oscar Wilde
David Pearl
1065 Posted 09/06/2021 at 16:57:03
Andrew he has been removed from the list and Nuno is back odds on favourite. He was 8/1 yesterday.
Jay Harris
1066 Posted 09/06/2021 at 17:21:43
Michael #1061,
Lage is quite highly rated and IMO is better than Nuno.

Unlike our lot Wolves have a good board.

Im still hoping we get Galtier.

Andrew Grey
1067 Posted 09/06/2021 at 19:35:41
Can't believe how long it's taking to appoint an new manager!

We need far more time before the new season to slag him off properly!

Marc Hints
1068 Posted 09/06/2021 at 20:51:40
Paulo Fonseca off the list then, he is off the Spurs. Sarri gone as well. So two very good managers down. Why on earth are we taking so long.
Soren Moyer
1069 Posted 09/06/2021 at 21:11:17
Come on Everton! Just pay that £2m compo to Lille and for once do the reasonable before Naples or Nice get Galtier ffs! No more pissing about talking to Moyes, Rooney, Gerard, Hodgson, Conte, etc..If we are serious about building a decent energetic, youthful team, this is the man!
Pat Kelly
1070 Posted 09/06/2021 at 21:40:09
Galtier has walked out on his contract with Lille. He has, reportedly, an agreement in principle with Nice. Wonder how long he'd honour a contract with us if things got difficult.
Robert Tressell
1071 Posted 09/06/2021 at 22:07:02
Fonseca is not a top drawer manager and it's taken Spurs a while to get him. I can't see they've stolen a march on us with that one. In fact it highlights what limited options there are. I don't think there are any likely outstanding candidates.
Pete Baker
1072 Posted 09/06/2021 at 22:43:37
Does anyone think Marcel buys into the approach Carlo and probably Nuno bring with a defensive, counterattack approach? Nuno coming feels very underwhelming, more from the style of play than his growth or management of players! Personally hoping we try to go for someone like Potter or Galtier, at least develop a style if play that's entertaining!
Ray Smith
1073 Posted 10/06/2021 at 22:20:13
When are we ever going to get rid of Kenwright's interference in negotiations which have nothing to do with him?

Thank goodness Moyes is staying at West Ham, and good luck to him.

When will Kenwright get it into his head that he is surplus to requirements? End of.

Let's move on, without repeatedly referring to past managers. That is not the way forward, and Kenwright cannot (or chooses not) see it, due to his blind faith in Moyes and Martinez!

Well past your sell-by date, Mr Kenwright. Take your ill-gotten gains and move on.

Rob Young
1074 Posted 10/06/2021 at 22:39:11
Why are we not linked to Lampard?
Not necessarily my choice but surely should be more likely then most, if not almost all, that we are linked with?

Kieran Kinsella
1075 Posted 16/06/2021 at 23:09:58
Rob

They extended his deal to six years after a few months much to his embarrassment as he felt he hadn’t earned it or so he said


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