The Portuguese left Wolves last month after four years in charge and has been in discussions with Crystal Palace this past week about succeeding Roy Hodgson at Selhurst Park.
Sky Sports claim that Nuno will be the first candidate to be interviewed by the Everton hierarchy whose summer plans were thrown into disarray yesterday when Ancelotti upped and left for Real Madrid.
Moyes, who is still expected to accept a contract offer from West Ham this month, came close to being re-appointed as the Toffees's boss 18 months ago but was pipped to the post by Ancelotti.
London newspaper Metro were also reporting that Espirito Santo was Everton owner Farhad Moshiri's first choice while The Telegraph suggest that former Leipzig boss and one-time candidate to replace Moyes in 2013, Ralf Rangnick, is in the frame.
A goalkeeper during his playing days, Nuno began as a coaching assistant at Panathinaikos before moving to Rio Ave and then Valencia in Spain for a year and then Porto back in his native Portugal.
Switching to Wolves in 2017, he helped build the team in tandem with agent Jorge Mendes that would take the Midlanders into the Premier League and eventually into the Europa League on the strength of a seventh-place finish in their second season back in the top flight.
Wolves struggled in 2020-21, however, particularly following the sale of Diogo Jota and the lengthy injury lay-off for Raul Jiminez who fractured his skull and saw his season ended prematurely.
Reader Comments (1063)
Note: the following content is not moderated or vetted by the site owners at the time of submission. Comments are the responsibility of the poster. Disclaimer
1 Posted 02/06/2021 at 16:27:42
2 Posted 02/06/2021 at 16:35:36
3 Posted 02/06/2021 at 16:38:16
4 Posted 02/06/2021 at 16:38:48
If spurs are talking to Conte.. we should definitely chance our arm.
A big NO from me to Moyes and Howe. Howe isn't good enough and Moyes should never be let near the club again.
5 Posted 02/06/2021 at 16:39:16
Which brings me to Moyes, himself. Even without mentioning other objections, I never favoured returns of prodigal sons.
6 Posted 02/06/2021 at 16:40:34
Next candidate please.
7 Posted 02/06/2021 at 16:41:40
8 Posted 02/06/2021 at 16:45:09
9 Posted 02/06/2021 at 16:49:26
10 Posted 02/06/2021 at 16:53:17
I think Nuno is a better appointment than Moyes, Howe and Lampard, but Id like us to ask Poch now Conte looks like he's off to Spurs. He can only say no. After that I'd like Dunc to be given his chance but I don't think he'll be asked...So Nuno it is.
11 Posted 02/06/2021 at 16:54:05
We've notably failed with (b) this season.
He also got Wolves promoted with handful of largely unheralded foreigners, the bizarre signing of Ruben Neves and getting a lot out of players like Coady and Doherty.
Obviously quality has since been added - led by Mino Raiola not Santo - but he's managed and coached the squad well until falling away this season basically because Traore doesn't link well with Semedo (both try to occupy the same space) and Fabio Silva is miles away from being ready to replace the injured Jiminez. Moutinho is now fading too.
He also plays with wing backs and three centre backs which might not be a bad fit for us given existing personnel.
Given we will not get an appointment to set the heart racing, this would not be bad option at all.
12 Posted 02/06/2021 at 16:55:30
13 Posted 02/06/2021 at 16:59:10
Both those would be alot better and more exciting than Nuno. As you said.. you won't know unless you ask..
14 Posted 02/06/2021 at 16:59:30
Carlo looked at our squad - even with additions like James - and decided we were so lacking in quality that we could only play a low block and hope to pinch one. In other words, an even more defensive version of the way Moyes had us playing. It may be that we were only shite in comparison to the kind of world-class players he was used to, but I guess we'll find out when the next fella is appointed.
Anyway, whoever is made manager, he's stuck with this lot plus maybe three or four incoming. Good luck to him.
15 Posted 02/06/2021 at 17:02:26
16 Posted 02/06/2021 at 17:02:29
17 Posted 02/06/2021 at 17:02:43
How depressing is that? We didn't win a thing!
If we appoint Moyes or Espirito Santo we are accepting that we are a mid-table club instead of trying to get back to where we should be. We will just end up floundering around mid table for another few decades.
Please appoint a winner or a least a manager who has been on the verge of success and is still relatively young.
I just hope all this Sky talk isn't real.
18 Posted 02/06/2021 at 17:04:44
19 Posted 02/06/2021 at 17:05:55
He has led Wolves to 2 consecutive 7th place finishes, although the latter was with a club record 59 points!!
He has lost key players this season due to sales and injury.
He should be able to converse with our South American contingent, which could be a bonus compared to other managers.
Hopefully the lack of a big name appointment will allow us to fly under the radar in the new season as the last thing this lot need is any form of expectation.
20 Posted 02/06/2021 at 17:08:23
Wolves probably suffered as a result of this last season, but take your time Mr Moshiri because this next appointment is so important
21 Posted 02/06/2021 at 17:08:34
Robert Tressell mentions above; he plays a back 3. I've rarely seen him change his style, which has caught them out this season. Silva anyone?
Play the system that suits the players you have or at least adapt to who you're playing against. Don't just keep doing the same thing on principle if it's not working.
22 Posted 02/06/2021 at 17:08:36
Andrew#17, we are a mid-table club. We have finished in the top 4 twice since last winning the league. Without vast wealth we need to accept that and build properly because pretending to be a big rich club without actually having big bucks or good players has been taking us backwards for many years now.
23 Posted 02/06/2021 at 17:12:08
I know that next season's plans need to be put in place but this seems a bit rushed and I hope this is just sounding him out rather than a solid offer.
24 Posted 02/06/2021 at 17:12:17
He had tons of world class players at Spurs and did nothing with them.
Another cheque book manager who flatters to deceive.
25 Posted 02/06/2021 at 17:12:39
And another thing, Wolves seem to be of the same cloth as Everton as far as football clubs go. Please correct me if this is off but that has been my impression following them and chatting up a friend who is a supporter. That would be a comforting thing right now to have a good fit for the club in terms of someone who knows what to expect and can provide some semblance of this club's past form.
26 Posted 02/06/2021 at 17:13:48
27 Posted 02/06/2021 at 17:16:03
He needs to come in with a flame-thrower mounted on a tank and raze the current setup to the ground and build from the bottom up.
If a yes man comes in to slot into the mediocrity then were still on the road to nowhere Hell just be another hamster on the wheel collecting his millions before the inevitable disappointment and sacking.
I dont know if Nuno has balls of steel or ping pong balls. The trouble is half the interviewers may want someone who keeps everyone onside and on easy street, that just cant happen.
Of the candidates mentioned , that are available and achievable, he is definitely one of the better ones.
28 Posted 02/06/2021 at 17:16:26
29 Posted 02/06/2021 at 17:16:49
Frankly, I would try anybody after the last few years of frustrations. We must get lucky soon, right !!!
30 Posted 02/06/2021 at 17:17:52
31 Posted 02/06/2021 at 17:19:02
Some are lording Moyes for getting West Ham to Europe.Just as he did for Everton but never achieved anything like that.
Harry Kane and Delle Ali didn't cost them that much and came to prominence on his watch. He also didn't do a bad job at Southampton, so for those who like a manager who can take an average team and make them difficult to beat and play high pressing aggressive football, combining up and coming players, astute buys and getting the most out of what you have, not a bad option in my opinion.
32 Posted 02/06/2021 at 17:19:39
33 Posted 02/06/2021 at 17:25:03
Kenwright = Moyes
Brands = ?
Like all other posters, I agree Nuno doesn't set the pulse racing and he doesn't seem to be the type who will shake up the lazy twots we have at FF. However, he might be a good fit with Brands.
Moyes will shake them up at FF but I can't see him working with Brands - and in any case from a personal point of view I don't want him anywhere near GP.
Forget Poch or Conte, it won't happen even if we made a cheeky bid.
34 Posted 02/06/2021 at 17:25:30
36 Posted 02/06/2021 at 17:29:23
37 Posted 02/06/2021 at 17:29:31
Kane was already on Spurs books but was out on loan.
Ali was a decent buy I'll give you that.
I'd actually forgotten he was at Southampton, he did a decent job but I'm still not convinced tbh.
38 Posted 02/06/2021 at 17:31:37
To me Nuno demands commitment from his players and before injuries and transfers his team performed a lot better than us for two seasons. I think he'd be good enough to get us into Europe and he won't stand slackers. That sounds good to me compared to the stupidity we've had since Moyes left for supposedly better things.
Howe got Bournemouth relegated, Potter at Brighton just avoided relegation, Gerrard won't come and why would Moyes leave a team he's got into Europe for one that isn't. Nuno is therefore the best choice right now and we really need a steer on recruitment as soon as possible!
39 Posted 02/06/2021 at 17:32:32
I hope you rest in the knowledge I won't sleep tonight!!!
40 Posted 02/06/2021 at 17:32:44
I don't get why Moyes would consider returning
This season has given him a lot of credit with hammers fans if he turned up here he would be on a hiding to nothing from the get go. The first run of bad form would see him hounded.
If we went back I'd have Bobby but you should never go back
41 Posted 02/06/2021 at 17:33:42
He also said last season's poor performance was due to key players being out injured at the same time
42 Posted 02/06/2021 at 17:36:37
Premier league experience and a track record of getting a good shift out of the players he has.
I think Wolves have played some really good football over the last few years.
Whoever is appointed needs complete support and Patience!
This is a nightmare again but Simon Jordan called it right on talksport earlier. What has Carlo actually done in 18 months ?
43 Posted 02/06/2021 at 17:37:12
44 Posted 02/06/2021 at 17:38:50
Single malt works for me, or Bushmills.
45 Posted 02/06/2021 at 17:43:14
Hew as the right type of fit, young, hungry and with some good ideas.
Brands effectively hanged him out to dry with the Iwobi transfer window, throw in injuries to Gomes and some astounding bad luck it just spiralled away from him.
Some may say he had his chance but it just feels like a missed opportunity with him.
As for Nuno not once have I ever watched Wolves and thought wish we had Nuno as manager. Wolves aren't a club I follow closely by any stretch so I have a limited opinion of him. But if I had to choose between Nuno and Moyes I'd go Moyes I'm sad to say. The only name that genuinely has me crapping my Kecks is Eddie Howe please god no.
46 Posted 02/06/2021 at 17:47:52
47 Posted 02/06/2021 at 17:51:04
48 Posted 02/06/2021 at 17:55:19
The standout candidate is Benitez, though I can understand why it's not going to happen.
49 Posted 02/06/2021 at 17:58:36
Pity that Brendan Rogers isnt available.
I am a big Moyes fan, but don't think his return would be right.
50 Posted 02/06/2021 at 17:59:14
51 Posted 02/06/2021 at 18:00:57
Linked to this, what scouting of players did Wolves and NES do or did they merely rely on their Portuguese connections for their best players?
52 Posted 02/06/2021 at 18:04:44
53 Posted 02/06/2021 at 18:05:32
54 Posted 02/06/2021 at 18:06:45
He also got Rio Ave into Europe, Valencia to the champions league and Wolves into Europe.
55 Posted 02/06/2021 at 18:09:09
56 Posted 02/06/2021 at 18:09:54
57 Posted 02/06/2021 at 18:16:11
58 Posted 02/06/2021 at 18:17:21
We were not successful under Moyes. He did okay at times. That is it. Sometimes he did okay. That is not what we need. You don't go from Champion League winner to a feckin Portugese no mark or Moyes.
Conte is available. Get him at all costs. He is a winner. It's not difficult.
59 Posted 02/06/2021 at 18:17:24
Far too much conflict of interest in transfer dealings. Who replaced Doherty at Wolves, yep, another Mendes client, Nelson Semedo.
60 Posted 02/06/2021 at 18:17:30
So a player can't be 32 and hungry? I was and I could still compete.
Fernandinho has just pulled the strings for City at the age of 36. Aguero looked "hungry" to me a the age of 32. I'm sure he still will for Barcelona who have just signed him. Not good enough for Everton though.
Sorry, but the "young and hungry" phrases bores and tires me. Its about talent, ability and fitness, regardless of age.
To use that phrase, most would have retired Pirlo by his 30th birthday, if not before.
Let's play a load of 18 year olds and see where it gets us. Honestly.
You balance age, youth, experience and up coming talent to form a successful team. Thats what the successful teams do. And always have done.
61 Posted 02/06/2021 at 18:18:24
So disappointed in Carlo. Thought he was here for the long run and could turn this super tanker of mediocrity around. Going to work for that fascist pressure cooker club and that idiot Perez just does my head in. Up Barca!
Nuno would be acceptable to me but not particularly exciting.
Benitez is unpalatable but I would welcome him, as he's a proven manager and knows the league - and lives here already through choice (so no family worries). My first choice despite his past.
Stevie G? We shouldn't, he wouldn't.
Ralph Raggyneck - fine by me.
Moyes can do one.
Howe, no thanks.
Martinez back? Phenomenally silly.
Conte and Poch won't come.
Big Dunc - fine. The lazy sods would get a right mouthful.
Just really sad we find ourselves having to go through this again.
COYB. Get it right PLEASE.
62 Posted 02/06/2021 at 18:18:49
63 Posted 02/06/2021 at 18:18:56
In his first 2 seasons they played some lovely fast attacking football.
Forget last season, it was a bad one for him and wolves IMO have made a big mistake sacking him.
64 Posted 02/06/2021 at 18:21:07
I think Nuno Espirito Santo was Mendes's first ever client, so they'll still have a relationship, but we'll probably get Wolves rejects...
Anyone who thinks we were dire last season should have watched Wolves to cheer themselves up; they only scored 36 goals in the Premier League last season, 11 fewer than us...
Wolves bought the Championship – other sides complained of dodgy dealings.
The bloke seemed clueless without Jimenez to bail him out...
65 Posted 02/06/2021 at 18:22:48
Well look at Koeman phoned it in the whole time.
Compared to Silva who really put the hours at EFC in to prove himself.
Both failed admittedly but give me any manager willing to put the graft in.
66 Posted 02/06/2021 at 18:23:09
67 Posted 02/06/2021 at 18:24:25
Moyes has a great transfer market record, hell get rid of the work-shy, make us hard to beat and develop from there like he has with West Ham. He understands what the fans want and I cant see that anyone else is better placed to deliver this.
He worked miracles for us in his first stint.
If its not to be Id like to see Dyche given a go.
68 Posted 02/06/2021 at 18:26:34
Something we've been lacking. My guess is he will be here for a good few years.
69 Posted 02/06/2021 at 18:28:07
70 Posted 02/06/2021 at 18:28:32
Nuno is going to need more than the Holy Spirit to convince me. Hes going to need la Familia Sagrada as well.
71 Posted 02/06/2021 at 18:29:46
72 Posted 02/06/2021 at 18:31:53
It seemed to me he ran out of ideas towards the end at Wolves, although he had some good players taked away from him, this didn't do him any favours.
To the moderators, could we have a fifth choice in your poll: "sitting on the fence?".
73 Posted 02/06/2021 at 18:33:38
I loved him when he first came to us, and still acknowledge the stability he gave us, but cannot really see what benefit would derive from having him back now?
He moved on and we need to, too!
74 Posted 02/06/2021 at 18:34:24
Young, dynamic and just won the league with Sporting Lisbon
Got to think big if were going to make a challenge for Europe. All of the people mentioned are average at best.
We need to take a chance or will be an average club at best.
75 Posted 02/06/2021 at 18:35:11
Go forward don't look back!
76 Posted 02/06/2021 at 18:35:25
Now my controversial choice for some is Duncan Ferguson, job came too early last time around, however he did get the players giving that bit extra, and had the fans onboard as well.
Something has to change, take a punt on someone who understands what this club stands for, after his time alongside Carlo, I think now is the time to try a different approach, and give Duncan Ferguson a chance.
77 Posted 02/06/2021 at 18:38:37
78 Posted 02/06/2021 at 18:40:15
79 Posted 02/06/2021 at 18:40:21
Big Dunc would not be a contraversial appointment, just like last time he's had chance to see what's gone wrong and like last time he might just light fire underneath them.
I'd like to it play out this time, instead of a few games.
80 Posted 02/06/2021 at 18:40:49
What I dislike about the Wolverhampton setup is the influence of Jorge Mendes and his people trafficking. Ive always thought the authorities should investigate this constant stream of Portuguese youngsters into the Black Country. Something very dodgy about that lot.
81 Posted 02/06/2021 at 18:41:37
82 Posted 02/06/2021 at 18:44:14
83 Posted 02/06/2021 at 18:44:17
Still, he did run away with the Championship, then led Wolves to back-to-back 7th place finishes (and would have had back-to-back Europa League appearances if not for Arsenal squeezing them out with their FA Cup win).
I do think we need to determine the right person for the job, rather than just chasing the biggest name for the sake of clout. There's no doubt Conte is a winner, but he's also a short-fused nutcase who's the complete opposite of the sort of continuity the club desperately needs at this stage.
How we know who the right person for the job is, I have no idea.
84 Posted 02/06/2021 at 18:46:04
But it's not just the manager, we need a load of new players to replace the ones not up to standard and a whole new coaching/backroom/conditioning staff to replace the present old boys' club. I can't see much real change in the club until the chairman goes. He probably had to be stopped appointing Wayne Rooney as manager.
85 Posted 02/06/2021 at 18:47:03
Ian E, whos your choice for manager? Pray tell
86 Posted 02/06/2021 at 18:49:22
87 Posted 02/06/2021 at 18:49:45
88 Posted 02/06/2021 at 18:49:55
Ian is too busy to answer as he is usually publishing stats that are usually wrong. He also seems to have no short-term memory of Everton results over the last several years that would obviously prove his dodgy stats wrong. Really bizarre.
89 Posted 02/06/2021 at 18:50:30
If they failed – sorry... when they failed – they'd get sacked and have to go elsewhere.
At present, they've both got cushy jobs for life, well as long as Bill lasts.
90 Posted 02/06/2021 at 18:50:49
Just a thought and something other than Moyes and similar ilk.
91 Posted 02/06/2021 at 18:51:35
He's available and we need this resolved quickly so we can get ourselves sorted.
Not exactly an exciting name, but he's better than some of the names mentioned (Howe, for example).
Wolves are a team that are always very slow to start games, but once they start playing can be pleasing on the eye. This season they suffered due to losing their best 2 players (one to injury, another sold) and not investing in first team ready players.
I always found them a bit over rated, but they came.up.from the championship and are now pretty much established in teh Premier League, which is solid work by the manager (compared to Howe and his perrenial relegation candidates to eventual relegation fodder).
So meh. ok.
But the true feeling is that 'I really don't care anymore. We're destined for mid table either way
92 Posted 02/06/2021 at 18:52:07
The problem with your reasonable suggestion is that the Everton board only have two modes of operation: procrastination, and panic.
93 Posted 02/06/2021 at 18:52:52
If West Ham haven't got Moyes to sign a new contract and then told all and sundry that he's their boss then something is certainly fishy. Is Moyes waiting to see what Everton put on the table?
Surely West Ham would get this done and dusted whilst all this shite is going on at Goodison.
94 Posted 02/06/2021 at 18:53:36
Stellar promotion to the Premier League, built a pretty good team at wolves (seems a good talent spotter), took them from the Championship to getting in to the Europa League (we can't seem to get from 7th to 5th), he ran a pretty good domestic campaign at the same time as his European campaign. Speaking Spanish and Portuguese is an obvious big plus. His age is also a plus.
I think he is the standout candidate by a country mile.
95 Posted 02/06/2021 at 18:55:42
96 Posted 02/06/2021 at 18:57:03
Whoever is appointed he will divide opinions.
My three choices would be:
97 Posted 02/06/2021 at 18:57:26
98 Posted 02/06/2021 at 18:58:54
Nobody will be messing about under him and he is respected at the club by players.
We are only potentially 7th or 8th best club under any manager. They all need a miracle run of form at some point to better that.
99 Posted 02/06/2021 at 18:59:37
101 Posted 02/06/2021 at 19:02:09
Did Ian not name his preference #86... or is it a different Ian?
102 Posted 02/06/2021 at 19:02:38
Any other ex-players appointed as Academy coaches?
103 Posted 02/06/2021 at 19:03:02
104 Posted 02/06/2021 at 19:06:30
105 Posted 02/06/2021 at 19:07:19
I'd bring Emery back as long as he keeps winning the Europa
106 Posted 02/06/2021 at 19:07:24
107 Posted 02/06/2021 at 19:07:49
Never never never and we should have some pride and disassociate ourselves from him…. Move forward not backwards
Id even go for Martinez ahead of him - though that Wigan home FA cup game when Phil Neville played like my dead grannie still gives me shivers….
108 Posted 02/06/2021 at 19:08:25
It looks like lazy journalism to me, but I have that nagging doubt Bill might just charm Moshiri into doing it.
109 Posted 02/06/2021 at 19:08:45
Clearly they'd been a ToffeeWeb regular not long before it.
Hopefully whoever we get, we get behind them. Goodison will at least. Outside of that, it's just hope we get the next Alex Ferguson not the next Mike Walker.
110 Posted 02/06/2021 at 19:09:33
111 Posted 02/06/2021 at 19:11:49
Why not go along the Duncan Ferguson route, someone who understands Everton, and will not stand for anyone not putting the effort in, break the chain of bringing Managers year after year, Joe Royle, Howard Kendall, both brought success at Everton, both knowing what is expected from our football club, forget Kendall Mk 2 and Mk 3, look at what these achieved with their first stint.
I did not think Ferguson should have got the first shot for those games, he proved me wrong, I think he is the perfect choice now.
112 Posted 02/06/2021 at 19:12:19
113 Posted 02/06/2021 at 19:15:22
Apologies if I misread your post, but it was Moyes who was in charge of Everton for that horrible cup defeat to Wigan.
In the Wigan dugout was a certain Roberto Martinez.
114 Posted 02/06/2021 at 19:17:11
He's been a coach at Everton for nearly 10 years and has had every opportunity to get in amongst them. I fear he's like Unsworth, likes his cushy salary and life behind the scenes.
115 Posted 02/06/2021 at 19:18:15
So please, enlighten us. You seem to have psychic powers, so who is the chosen one?
116 Posted 02/06/2021 at 19:19:13
117 Posted 02/06/2021 at 19:21:55
Enough of this fantasizing – the team is shite... total and utter crap, and we need someone with proven ability to get a tune from a turd.
Not popular I know, but it has to be Moyes.
118 Posted 02/06/2021 at 19:25:05
Moshiri has continually appointed the wrong man. He's going to do it again.
119 Posted 02/06/2021 at 19:26:55
We haven't appointed an ex-Evertonian with passion for the club since Joe Royle in 1994. Look what he achieved that season... Duncan has the desire care and passion we have lacked for so long. I know he only had four or so games in charge but, in a flash, the likes of Schneiderlin and Walcott were running like crazy.
That game v Chelsea was one of the very few games in years and years where you were on the edge of your seat and your heart was racing! There was a real connection again between players and crowd.
He would surely shake the under-achievers up and pin a few against the dressing room wall who don't fancy it. He wouldn't be afraid if Liverpool either. Big Nev agrees too. I'd happily see Cahill there too.
If Nuno gets the job, good luck to him but we have truly lost our identity these last 8 years with coaches who either didn't care or who didn't get us. At least Dunc would give us some pride back and someone to all rally behind. He won't get it but he shouldn't be dismissed out of hand.
120 Posted 02/06/2021 at 19:27:18
Now I'm the last person singing the praises of our Dazza Hind but to be fair to the guy from the get go amongst all the hysteria of Mr Fantastico's arrival, he always said he thought his appointment was wrong and a bad fit for EFC. That's hardly knifing the new manager in the back its just his opinion.
An opinion that turned out to be 100% correct.
121 Posted 02/06/2021 at 19:28:01
122 Posted 02/06/2021 at 19:33:25
The manager may change but I guess some very sad individuals don't.
123 Posted 02/06/2021 at 19:36:57
124 Posted 02/06/2021 at 19:37:02
Perhaps if Kenwright were a distant memory, it would be different... but, with him still at the club, Moyes would know that the expectation is 7th-ish and not winning away.
125 Posted 02/06/2021 at 19:38:00
I am delighted that manager is gone personally but I take no delight in fellow Blues suffering and believe anger is being misattributed.
126 Posted 02/06/2021 at 19:38:16
Break the bank and make an offer he can't refuse. If the club are actually arsed about challenging the Top 6 in the next 3-4 years, he is the long-term appointment we should be going for.
If we are going for another foreign coach, again we have to pay top dollar if the club have ambition. That's Conte, a modern-day winner in both the Premier League and in Italy.
At this point in time, if we don't get one of the above mentioned, we just plod along like we have been doing under the pile of shite that we've appointed over the past few years.
Nuno, no no! Same shit, different day.
127 Posted 02/06/2021 at 19:38:22
Darren wasn't proved right at all as Carlo has not had the chance to deliver or not deliver. His leaving doesn't mean that he would have failed. Even if he had failed, Darren had a 50% chance of being right with his nonsense. More Mickey Mouse than Einstein.
Far more serious than Darren's irrelevancy are that we are in a far bigger mess now than if Carlo had stayed and Liverpool look like they are buying Tielemans.
128 Posted 02/06/2021 at 19:38:28
129 Posted 02/06/2021 at 19:39:33
130 Posted 02/06/2021 at 19:43:08
None of us know who has, or has not been approached. None of us know who has or has not said "Yes", "Perhaps", or, "No - thank you very much".
So, it may not be a case of Mr Moshri not appointing the "right man" as the "right man" not being available to be appointed.
131 Posted 02/06/2021 at 19:43:11
132 Posted 02/06/2021 at 19:44:28
I will say it now: Our next manager will not get Champions League qualification in his first year. Sack him before he is appointed
133 Posted 02/06/2021 at 19:44:50
Then again – wouldn't be very Everton that would it?
134 Posted 02/06/2021 at 19:46:02
135 Posted 02/06/2021 at 19:49:35
136 Posted 02/06/2021 at 19:49:51
I don't know if I have missed something?
The last I recall was that he had said he had no interest in coaching nor managing.
Has that changed?
137 Posted 02/06/2021 at 19:50:17
Daniel A, in all fairness to Darren he has been right about Martinez, Koeman (not 100% sure), Silva and Ancellotti. Thats why I asked him about the next manager. If he says Nuno is shite then we may as well sack him now, before he signs a contract!
138 Posted 02/06/2021 at 19:53:07
The horror of the day befuddled my memory..
139 Posted 02/06/2021 at 19:53:39
It's not fuckin rocket science. The next manager will not get us Champions League football. Guaranteed.
140 Posted 02/06/2021 at 19:54:56
141 Posted 02/06/2021 at 19:56:09
Is that okay with you, Annika?
142 Posted 02/06/2021 at 19:57:56
143 Posted 02/06/2021 at 19:59:46
144 Posted 02/06/2021 at 20:00:37
145 Posted 02/06/2021 at 20:01:24
I loved Nuno the first 3 seasons he was at Wolves.
4th season he went really down hill fast.
Yes selling Jiota did not help, as his replacements were mega poor.
Yes the injury to Jimeneze was bad luck and did not help either, but his replacements were just as bad as those for Jiota.
And the wonder kid from Porto (Silver) - he should be out on loan at a championship club, not the first team centre forward - god help us!
In the end I was one of those calling for Nuno to be sacked. I'm glad to see him out, as we need fresh blood at the helm now.
Morgan Gibbs-White, not great, and not a premier league player. Championship/League One is his limit.
146 Posted 02/06/2021 at 20:01:44
On another point, how come we do not get a HYS on BBC's McNulty 'Carlo Ancelotti leaves Everton: 'Italian's exit to Real Madrid major blow to Toffees' ambitions' on BBC sport today? Oh, I forgot the BBC can not see asumes only ESL clubs supporters understand football in this modern era!
147 Posted 02/06/2021 at 20:04:28
Bring in Dunc. Can't do any worse than the last 5 managers! Baines can be his assistant. Job done.
148 Posted 02/06/2021 at 20:05:36
149 Posted 02/06/2021 at 20:06:48
Its a good strike rate for him. Theres going to be divided opinion whoever we get but of those available I dont think any will get as high as 67% of fans satisfied or made up with them coming to Everton.
I can see this being a done deal by the weekend.
150 Posted 02/06/2021 at 20:08:56
If we're going to be ridiculous let's just make stuff up...we finished 11th in Roberto's final season.
151 Posted 02/06/2021 at 20:09:11
We are a small club, both in mind and action.
Nothing to see here, please move on.
152 Posted 02/06/2021 at 20:09:45
Of the 2 names listed its Nuno for me, Wolves fans didn't want him to leave. Personally I'd prefer Lampard. He got Chelsea qualified for CL with a transfer ban and Derby to play off final. And remember Rooney was about 5 minutes away from relegating Derby.
153 Posted 02/06/2021 at 20:11:27
154 Posted 02/06/2021 at 20:14:04
155 Posted 02/06/2021 at 20:17:41
156 Posted 02/06/2021 at 20:18:43
Those calling for Moyes have short memories. He's stunk the place out since he left, bar one good season at West Ham. He's as much yesterday's man as Allardyce is. And as for Lampard or Rooney, both have shown that they are not up to the task of management.
Nuno or a truly left field appointment for me.
157 Posted 02/06/2021 at 20:18:49
158 Posted 02/06/2021 at 20:19:59
159 Posted 02/06/2021 at 20:20:03
Its turned out he was a bad fit and he must have even felt it himself but the next managers job is still massive isn't it.
Ambition is somewhat confusing at this club.
Moshiri's first question to Nuno in interview, do you play 3 centre halfs because Toffeeweb is watching.
Will Coady come with him?
160 Posted 02/06/2021 at 20:22:40
Nuno could prove to be another Silva and does not have a particularly impressive cv.
More depressing than having to search again for a manager is the thought that Kenwright is still on the board and apparently lobbying again for the return of Moyes. Mercifully only 5% in the poll are stupid enough to want him back.
161 Posted 02/06/2021 at 20:26:35
Not great but of the known (realistic) names put forward he's the pick of the bunch.
162 Posted 02/06/2021 at 20:27:03
So no Moyes, no Howe (know how?), no Dyche.
163 Posted 02/06/2021 at 20:29:15
Since you were non specific suitable experienced, soon to be available German leader Angel Merkhel. That would certainly rock the boat. I like it
164 Posted 02/06/2021 at 20:30:51
I meant to add that I couldnt vote in the specific poll about Nuno because there isnt a
165 Posted 02/06/2021 at 20:31:49
The foreign manager snobbery has failed ever since Moshiri has been here.
166 Posted 02/06/2021 at 20:33:11
The reason I say he is interesting is because he was a key cog in the Red Bull model and is a major proponent of youth. If Moshiri was serious about building a future this would be the perfect appointment. He is arguably even better as a technical director and he may want to take us on as a project perhaps managing short term before moving upstairs. He would give us that dynasty, that plan many of us are calling for.
167 Posted 02/06/2021 at 20:33:36
168 Posted 02/06/2021 at 20:34:50
There are so few imaginative posts far as incomings are concerned and most are just regurgitating the usual suspects.
Any mention of Poch; Conte etc are immediately scoffed at as out of our reach - I did it myself on an earlier post!
So the choices reflect who we are at this moment in time - even Rodgers is out of reach.
One name has popped up a couple of times Eric Ten Hag and I mentioned it to my football coach son who said he would be an exciting choice who would get on with Brands.
My son is not an blues supporter but that is a very long story.
169 Posted 02/06/2021 at 20:35:59
I had someone like Ralf Rangnick in mind though!
170 Posted 02/06/2021 at 20:39:35
171 Posted 02/06/2021 at 20:40:06
172 Posted 02/06/2021 at 20:40:11
This means Wayne Rooney as manager. Give him time to mould a team over the next 4 years. No one knows the Premier League like him, no one at Everton today is a bigger winner than him if we are talking about a winner with a bit of grit between his teeth, and also softly spoken to suit the modern day footballer, he understands social media, what footballers get up to and lived it, taking the pressure of being captain for country... why not Wayne Rooney?
173 Posted 02/06/2021 at 20:41:00
Cue the Harry Lime theme!
174 Posted 02/06/2021 at 20:43:08
This squad will just be even more fucked up with yet another manager adding his shit to it.
175 Posted 02/06/2021 at 20:43:31
I thought the football under Martinez in those final few months was as bad as anything I've seen watching Everton. Just ponderous side ways passing. And he had an attacking possession based philosophy
176 Posted 02/06/2021 at 20:44:58
177 Posted 02/06/2021 at 20:50:16
I bet when the call came his daughter said "we're out of here Dad" and I'd wager he was the most relieved man in Merseyside.
If we don't try for Conte or Poch then it means the funds will not be there this Summer for marquee signings, hence Nuno or the Grey Lady...a long shitty wait until we sign a second rate manager. Sacked by Wolves but good enough for us.
What a joke we have become.
178 Posted 02/06/2021 at 20:57:44
179 Posted 02/06/2021 at 20:57:48
180 Posted 02/06/2021 at 20:57:51
181 Posted 02/06/2021 at 20:57:51
Of course it was a bad experience but the man has lived in Naples. Hes not stupid. Of course he'd have a bad memory of it but what would he have done if Madrid hadn't come in? Quit? No chance.
It sounds relative because hes gone but regardless of any incident he was going once the call came and the 'unexpected' claim speaks to that.
He was staying but got an offer he didn't think would come and left to join trophy chasers.
182 Posted 02/06/2021 at 20:58:19
183 Posted 02/06/2021 at 20:58:49
184 Posted 02/06/2021 at 21:01:56
True as a manager Rooney's won nothing in his short management career - definitely nowhere near Carlo and it will be hard to find another winner like Carlo to bring in unfortunately.
I think whoever the board brings in will be like the poll says, a 7 out of 10 appointment at most. Most candidate options in the comments have so many downsides, the board can't win. If no-one on TW after over 1000 opinions can't agree on two or three options that almost everyone says we wouldn't mind as the manager, it tells this appointment will be the toughest in years.
If the appointment may not be that exciting as we'd hope for, then an alternative objective could be that we should just get the one who is most likely to stay for at least 3 years if that's the case so Brands can bring in some good young players and develop under one stable manager to give young players a chance. Otherwise a manager whose got one eye on say Barcelona won't want to bring in young players as they're thinking about their CV and instant wins to attract a bigger club to hire them.
185 Posted 02/06/2021 at 21:02:34
That's not true that I dismissed them all straight away.
Kept my powder dry about Koeman... But tore into him when I saw the transfer window him and Walsh had – wrote an article about it.
I was really interested to see how Silva got on, especially in light of some of the stuff Steve Ferns was writing about him. However, I got panicky when I realised he would not shift from Zonal Marking – I think I wrote an article about that too.
I was in total support of Big Dunc as I thought he was a breath of fresh air. I definitely wanted him to be given the rest of the season to see if he had what it took and if that passion was sustainable.
I was fearful of Carlo because I didn't think he could get anything out of these players – I deffo wrote an article about that. I didn't really start going for him though until it became blatantly obvious that he had no intentions whatsoever of playing any footy.
I don't subscribe to this "give him time" shite. It doesn't take 3 years to see if a manager is taking us in the right direction. If the writing is on the wall early – and it clearly has been for most of our previous managers – I don't believe there is any point in prolonging the agony.
When Carlo Ancelotti arrived at this club, there was a real feelgood factor. Duncan Ferguson had turned the ship around and had the crowds and all the media buzzing about the passion he had brought. Carlo Ancelotti destroyed it. He hasn't just left a team which finished 10th heading south. He left a squad of players who have long since forgotten how to play football. One which is now conditioned to spoiling games... if they can be arsed.
He may not have been a magician, but he managed to pull off the best disappearance since David Nixon was hiding behind an unsteady screen.
The next manager, whoever he may be, will get my full support. But it won't be unconditional.
186 Posted 02/06/2021 at 21:02:35
I would like to consider plan A - the best around:-
Nage who is on the brink of replacing Nuno at Wolves.
Rangnick - potentially better than Bielsa.
Flick, Gasperini, Ten Hag, Pochettinho (although still under contract with PSG), Inzhagi, Marcelo, Lopetegui, Conte and Galteri of Lille.
They are all out there if we seek them out. Get Brands on the job and don't listen to lazy arse Bill.
187 Posted 02/06/2021 at 21:02:46
As it stands the squad is sub-standard without any players that could threaten a Top 6 team – despite what some posters have previously said.
188 Posted 02/06/2021 at 21:04:13
And we'll probably all start the season with the wide-eyed optimism that August often brings.
I suspect Moshiri is fresh out of wide-eyed optimism though. Given all he has spent, he must be beginning to feel he has fallen for the three card trick.
189 Posted 02/06/2021 at 21:04:47
190 Posted 02/06/2021 at 21:05:47
I'm not too excited at the prospect but Nuno is a decent coach and Wolves have played some good stuff under him. Even this season, where they have struggled for goals, they have been easier on the eye than us.
No to Mr Moyes, returns don't usually turn out too well.
191 Posted 02/06/2021 at 21:07:20
Who has the ultimate say? Bill or Farhad? Can we trust them to make the right choice?
I'd go for someone with the love for Everton of Duncan, the passion of a Simeone (toned down by 50%), the tactical nous of a Bielsa, the charisma of a Guardiola, the cunning of an Alex Ferguson and the work rate of a Silva (no denying he put in the hours). Easy eh?
192 Posted 02/06/2021 at 21:07:21
193 Posted 02/06/2021 at 21:08:49
In the end, no chance of me getting behind the new manager if the new manager's name is David Moyes.
194 Posted 02/06/2021 at 21:12:37
195 Posted 02/06/2021 at 21:12:45
Kenwright wants Moyes, duuuurrrr..the most boring rumour anyone could come up with.
Only a lazy person would not consider Moshiri was surely impressed with Moyes this season and not consider it might be bullshit. And the Kenwright obsessives love it then regurgitate that empty statement.
Not one statement from the club today and The Echo who are supposed to be close to the club and your help towards Everton news, spread shite a ToffeeWebber could make up.
They haven't even considered how Moyes left Silly Billy hanging on a new contract then walked away.
196 Posted 02/06/2021 at 21:12:46
Nuno, as Jay said, should be the Plan B, not first choice. I mean yesterday Nuno he was nailed on for the Palace job. Very underwhelmed right now.
197 Posted 02/06/2021 at 21:12:56
So its Orson Welles? And people call Sam Fat
198 Posted 02/06/2021 at 21:14:03
How many managers have we seen come and go in the Premier League over the years who show some promise, but ultimately aren't all that? This fella was just about to jump on board with Palace and was totally screwed with a couple of players missing last season. It's not that he is the worst manager available but, for me, just one of many we've seen a million times before.
Also what the bloody hell is Brands doing? Isn't he the football ‘expert' at board level? Does he have a say? I was hoping to hear Brands had identified the right fit for his model but yet the same old names are churned back out with a few dull-as-fuck additions. I just can't work Brands out – can someone tell me how he has improved us during his tenure?
If we aren't in a place to attract a top manager (Conte, Pochettino) and none of the usual suspects are inspiring, then bring in someone with a proper footballing brain, like Ralf Rangnick who can instil a footballing philosophy and can identify a suitable replacement to keep his dynasty going when the time is right. Clearly Brands isn't getting to put his ideas down and Rangnick would provide the route and branch overhaul required.
199 Posted 02/06/2021 at 21:15:50
202 Posted 02/06/2021 at 21:16:29
203 Posted 02/06/2021 at 21:17:05
Julian, #191, so you want Darren Hind then!
204 Posted 02/06/2021 at 21:18:32
All names mentioned seem more like Bingham and Lee to me than Catterick and Kendall but no doubting this is a big appointment and with it an opportunity to aim for a European spot playing good football. Realistically that would be sound progress in the immediate aftermath of what has gone before for nearly a decade barring the Martinez first season.
205 Posted 02/06/2021 at 21:18:42
206 Posted 02/06/2021 at 21:18:51
I promised myself I would give the new manager 8 hours before I decided he was crap.
207 Posted 02/06/2021 at 21:19:09
Remember Moshiri said when he recruited Ancelotti, that we had a squad of top-quality players and all we needed was a top manager to get the best out of them. Moshiri was wrong then and wrong now. Problem is he's in denial.
208 Posted 02/06/2021 at 21:21:50
Moyes wouldn't be my choice either.
Remember when 69 year old Maurice Chevalier was asked how he felt now he was approaching his 70th birthday? He said he didn't like it, until he thought about the alternative.
Not getting behind Everton isn't really an alternative.
209 Posted 02/06/2021 at 21:24:41
210 Posted 02/06/2021 at 21:25:08
211 Posted 02/06/2021 at 21:27:26
212 Posted 02/06/2021 at 21:29:28
213 Posted 02/06/2021 at 21:31:16
214 Posted 02/06/2021 at 21:32:04
I mentioned Ralf Rangnick because we need someone who isnt a yes man - totally get this wouldnt sit well with Brands as DoF but he isnt doing it for me. I also appreciate he needs players to play his pressing game, but hes a smart man and is a bit of a German Bielsa or Wenger even - Its at the very least worthy of consideration compared to some of the other candidates mentioned.
If truth be told Im at a bit of a loss mate, but Everton do need to get this one right thats for sure!!
215 Posted 02/06/2021 at 21:34:16
216 Posted 02/06/2021 at 21:35:01
217 Posted 02/06/2021 at 21:35:44
The Echo is one of the worst. I have seen quite a few things in the last few years where the Echo were rubbishing reports as rumors until the "rumors" have been shown to be reality on the BBC football page.
218 Posted 02/06/2021 at 21:39:33
219 Posted 02/06/2021 at 21:39:55
I'm beginning to wonder what it is that Brands is actually responsible for, it appears he doesn't have much say on who should be recruited as manager.
Many on here seem to think re-hiring Moyes will result in a better transfer policy for Everton, so that would make Brands' position redundant. It would seem that only Unsworth has any real contact with Brands when the pair watch the various youth teams play.
220 Posted 02/06/2021 at 21:40:16
My belief is David Moyes should be installed by Monday on a 5-year contract. Time to bring the great man home and return us to our regular Top 7 – then we can build for Champions League. Time for some structure and realism. We are miles away from Champions League and most of us know it. Moyes will be honest and demand more than Carlo in work rate from the players. I want passion, desire and the shirt to mean something! Moyes is still the only manager who I saw get angry when players were not pulling their weight.
Our owner has spent nearly £500 million and got us no further. We need value for money and a manager who can pick up a bargain and improve the team. The boom and bust mentality must stop now. New stadium? We can't sustain the ups and downs of the past 8 years pouring money down the drain with no end result. We need stability!
Come home, David, and save us!!!
221 Posted 02/06/2021 at 21:41:25
I wouldn't look no further than Duncan if only so I can see him scare the shit out of them when they underachieve.
222 Posted 02/06/2021 at 21:42:28
223 Posted 02/06/2021 at 21:43:35
224 Posted 02/06/2021 at 21:43:42
Thinking about it, Nuno might be good in terms of continuity. In that there won't be a complete sea change in style of play and Nuno is used to working with a director of football model. Mendes made the signings. That means Brands can go for the some of the targets already identified and we won't have to wait until well into the summer to make signings.
225 Posted 02/06/2021 at 21:43:47
226 Posted 02/06/2021 at 21:44:00
When we are fishing in the same pond as Crystal Palace and West Ham it really sums up where we are. A mid table team at best
I want someone who gives us hope and lets us dream of bigger things
227 Posted 02/06/2021 at 21:54:02
228 Posted 02/06/2021 at 21:54:46
229 Posted 02/06/2021 at 21:55:51
We should be talking to Conte and Benitez.
230 Posted 02/06/2021 at 21:57:08
231 Posted 02/06/2021 at 21:58:11
232 Posted 02/06/2021 at 21:58:53
11 more years of dross. Have some hope, have some desire, please. No more Moyes talk
233 Posted 02/06/2021 at 21:59:46
234 Posted 02/06/2021 at 22:01:33
235 Posted 02/06/2021 at 22:01:41
236 Posted 02/06/2021 at 22:03:21
You've got to be mad though to regurgitate things like The Echo has said blah blah when it is really a rumour from FootballInsider (a clear internet journo) or some other net trawler like them.
237 Posted 02/06/2021 at 22:03:46
You can't categorically say that Moshiri wasn't prepared to back Ancelotti with money in this upcoming window, it might well be the case but it isn't a known fact. We could have had top 4 in 2021 but for whatever reason Carlo couldn't be arsed motivating his squad and the squad couldn't be arsed motivating themselves.
In hindsight, my theory is that Carlo made sure that his squad was motivated in the Premier League games against the ESL mob, but in the other matches he wasn't bothered too much as those games don't grab the headlines on the European networks. It also shows that he's a good manager for matches involving the top sides but lacking when it comes to working out the dangers of those teams he deems inferior.
It's not Moshiri's fault that the manager couldn't get a tune out of his squad regardless of how poorly the squad is, particularly when he's paying the said manager a king's ransom to do the job.
238 Posted 02/06/2021 at 22:04:06
239 Posted 02/06/2021 at 22:04:39
No to Moyes
No to Howe
Would love Conte but he will be London bound. Would love Dunc but not sure he wants to be head honcho.
No to Benitez
No to Gérard
240 Posted 02/06/2021 at 22:05:05
Cos it's been upward and onward since he left?
241 Posted 02/06/2021 at 22:05:51
242 Posted 02/06/2021 at 22:09:07
243 Posted 02/06/2021 at 22:10:36
We need a nasty bunch to get this club out of this depressing slump that has gone on for too long.
244 Posted 02/06/2021 at 22:10:45
245 Posted 02/06/2021 at 22:11:00
I think it will dominate the back pages all summer long.
246 Posted 02/06/2021 at 22:11:43
247 Posted 02/06/2021 at 22:16:04
248 Posted 02/06/2021 at 22:16:27
249 Posted 02/06/2021 at 22:18:01
& he'll get that wrong
250 Posted 02/06/2021 at 22:20:04
251 Posted 02/06/2021 at 22:22:21
No it's not been great at all but let's move forward and get Conte, a winner. Let's not look backwards. Second comings never work, never.
I'm not mistaken Alan, we are not mistaken. He needs to stay with West Ham. Pound to a pinch. He'll be sacked by West Ham before the next season is out.
252 Posted 02/06/2021 at 22:26:24
And all the while he knows, if he's honest, that he's been exposed to the football-world as a non-entity, the owner of a club and a patch of ground right next to a crumbling decrepit riverbank, with a chairman who's led him to this point.
Any buyers out there?
No piffling offer refused!
253 Posted 02/06/2021 at 22:27:47
254 Posted 02/06/2021 at 22:28:47
255 Posted 02/06/2021 at 22:29:57
256 Posted 02/06/2021 at 22:32:01
We can't afford to waste time and money appointing another 2nd rate manager. I hope Real Madrid have paid £20M+ to nab Carlo. The remainder of his contract.
Nuno couldn't adapt a team and group of players he knew well to play 4 at the back successfully.
I don't understand why he wanted too after relative success with 5 at the back.
Another 'did well', but ultimately not good enough. Next.
Moyes is the minimum, the benchmark. If we can't get better, then get Moyes. But honestly, shows some ambition.
Mancini, Renieri, Wenger, Potter and Lampard are 5 I'd rather have.
257 Posted 02/06/2021 at 22:39:45
There were plenty of ToffeeWebbers predicting Carlo Magnifico would leave Moyes in his slipstream in 21/22 but not by jumping ship
258 Posted 02/06/2021 at 22:40:07
In other news - St Virgil of Van Dijk still has a bad leg too.
259 Posted 02/06/2021 at 22:42:38
As for Lampard, I can't see why he is even being mentioned tbh!
260 Posted 02/06/2021 at 22:43:25
261 Posted 02/06/2021 at 22:44:16
262 Posted 02/06/2021 at 22:45:44
263 Posted 02/06/2021 at 22:48:16
264 Posted 02/06/2021 at 22:51:09
265 Posted 02/06/2021 at 22:52:55
266 Posted 02/06/2021 at 22:54:37
I expect a period of national mourning for TAA will be declared by the assembled RS media pundits.
As to Nuno, I suppose it's the best we can get, but any managerial appointment is a huge risk. If the negotiations stall, I'd give the job to Duncan and give him until November to prove he's up to it by sorting out all the wasters in the squad.
He could take them all to Florida and show them the alligators close up. Even on land, our midfielders would be too slow to escape.
267 Posted 02/06/2021 at 23:05:18
268 Posted 02/06/2021 at 23:08:57
269 Posted 02/06/2021 at 23:10:47
270 Posted 02/06/2021 at 23:13:56
Everton persisted with a second rate collection of midfielders which just conceded too much territory by poor marking, lack of speed and weak tackling.
Our limited offence of DCL and Richie were expected to live off crumbs and they did well to score the goals that they did especially DCL. Richie was guilty of dropping his head a lot and didn't help his cause,
Some started the season no too bad i.e the new boys Doucoure, James and Alan but after they all had injuries they never really got going again.
I also suspect that Carlo became blase' about the situation thinking 4th.or 5th. was a shoe-in but he was unable to light a fire under the team when push came to shove.
Changes in personnel are inevitable after a season like this so let's all hope finally the right ones are made.
271 Posted 02/06/2021 at 23:22:27
272 Posted 02/06/2021 at 23:23:50
If you like to see a full back cutting the ball back, Nuno's your man.
273 Posted 02/06/2021 at 23:25:29
I still think Moshiri was quite happy to see Ancellotti leave rather than having to sack him mid season. Like the JFK assassination the truth will eventually come out.
274 Posted 02/06/2021 at 23:26:18
275 Posted 02/06/2021 at 23:30:09
If it's Nuno so be it. No former managers thank you.
276 Posted 02/06/2021 at 23:34:11
Yeah, he's a good shout because he .
What about Li Tie. He's China manager and played about as many games for us as Rooney did. So surely a shoe in
277 Posted 02/06/2021 at 23:36:14
OK, I guess I'd be okay with Nuno. His Wolves always played highly organized, highly motivated footy and generally got the best out of their talent, especially last season. And the beard is cool.
278 Posted 02/06/2021 at 23:41:23
Conte played 3 central defenders at Chelsea with Moses and Alonso as the wing backs.
Nuno lost twice to EFC last season - just saying.
Did the black cat run across the pitch when we playing Wolves and Silva was manager ? Did Carlo wish Nuno good luck when they embraced at the final whistle a couple of weeks ago ? Did they know then ?
Did Carlo realise he was flogging a dead horse when he mouthed WHY, Why to Godfrey against Sheff Utd ?
279 Posted 02/06/2021 at 23:43:40
We are a bit lost, no identity, no structure, no real plan.
Brands is D.O.F. but has not really done his job - he's been restricted to selling off/loaning off players, and doing paperwork for Ancelotti's buys, or Moshiri's ego purchases. If Big Dunc was the man, maybe, just maybe Brands could actually lead the way and do what we hoped he was going to do give the club a long term strategy based on youth and potential.
If Brands could identify a good coaching team, and a no2 for Ferguson, a tactical brain to work alongside the 'coach', it just may be what we need.
A couple of seasons finishing 10th, but with a long term plan being implemented and a good guy at the helm may be acceptable.
But if we keep.finishing 10th, but keep changing managers, stockpiling dead wood and no plan for the long term, then it's just miserable.
280 Posted 02/06/2021 at 23:46:58
281 Posted 02/06/2021 at 23:49:08
If its between Nuno and ginge the minge then Id go for Nuno.
If its between ginge the minge and fucking Iwobi then Id go with fucking Iwobi any day of the week!!
282 Posted 02/06/2021 at 23:53:19
People saying Wolves were unadventurous at Goodison less than two weeks ago . they had 9 corners in the first half alone. What they were missing all season it seemed was a focal point in attack. The young Silva just nothing like the injured Jimenez and their good work petered out in the last third.
For a bit of perspective under Nuno, they won at Man City Spurs twice, Arsenal, Everton, Liverpool and drew at Old Trafford, Stamford Bridge with games they did lose Often being close fought and entertaining where they gave it a good go.
Im not saying hes the right man, I really dont know yet, but hes done enough with a Club that spent most of the previous 35 years out of the top division to seriously consider him.
283 Posted 02/06/2021 at 23:55:16
I want Duncan to leave EFC and be a manager elsewhere and come back to EFC, when he is a success. I suggest WBA and he can sell us Perriera and take Iwobi on loan and Delph / Bolasie for free.
284 Posted 02/06/2021 at 23:58:56
And hey Jack, was writing while you were. Sorry that EFC has given you some stuff to work thru, better times ahead man, I know it sounds pollyannish but I'm really not that type. I think Nuno could steer us through this but I've got to believe Dunc would just grab us and throw us forward.
285 Posted 03/06/2021 at 00:14:56
If its Dunc? All bets are off. Who knows what would happen. A Glaswegian Klopp? Or an Evertonian John Carver. Certainly be interesting
286 Posted 03/06/2021 at 00:17:37
Playing counter attacking football? Isnt that where our best results have come from over the last few seasons? And the team we have isnt going to morph over the summer unless wholesale changes are made.
Not overly fussed for him though. A very Silva+ appointment if it happens. As with any new manager we get he has the same issues, need a new right back, powerful CM, need to add goals.
287 Posted 03/06/2021 at 00:21:17
I'd still like us to try and get Poch, but failing that it's Dunc or Nuno for me.
288 Posted 03/06/2021 at 00:24:41
289 Posted 03/06/2021 at 00:32:54
290 Posted 03/06/2021 at 00:45:21
The candidate list is really unaspiring to be honest, I would probably let Duncan F have a a go at it to be honest, it excites me more than any of the managers we are strongly linked with.
291 Posted 03/06/2021 at 00:48:05
Raymond Goethals and Dino Zoff spring to mind.
292 Posted 03/06/2021 at 00:53:07
293 Posted 03/06/2021 at 00:53:18
294 Posted 03/06/2021 at 01:06:45
295 Posted 03/06/2021 at 01:11:58
The real key points will be how much Brands has to spend, how wisely he spends it and does Nuno still have the phone number of the agent that helped him at Wolves.
It's the hope that kills you.
296 Posted 03/06/2021 at 01:17:50
297 Posted 03/06/2021 at 01:25:29
Me too but then I think of recent events. Carlo says we need new wide players and attackers. Then The Echo say Brands says Anthony Gordon will be in the first team squad next year and we give Broadhead a new contract.
298 Posted 03/06/2021 at 01:42:24
Buy to fix the right side and we are much better.
Best coach we've had this century and finished 7th in his first full season with a lot less money than the recent coach.
Nobody has got near him since he left and he had little to spend. I know he had his faults and has his detractors but the nonsense we've had subsequently...really?
299 Posted 03/06/2021 at 01:46:13
The first thing I texted my boys when I learned Carlo was out the door was, "I hope we get the Holy Spirit in."
I would go from despair to jubilation were Nuno hired.
300 Posted 03/06/2021 at 01:58:24
As a fellow Catholic Im sure youre familiar with the 11 (no Judas) apostles quivering like cowards after the crucifixion. Espírito Santo showed up and the rest is history.
301 Posted 03/06/2021 at 02:17:53
David Moyes, the prodigal's return?.. Also a no, for me..
I mean, come on, how are run-o-the-mill like this gonna progress us in any way whatsoever? At least we could DREAM, some of us, leastways, of such a thing happening under Carlo A.
There are no instant standouts, although some kind of younger, hugely more up for it and enthusiastic 'team' involving Big Dunc and, ideally, another Evertonian might be a good place to start.. (Let HIM get his own man aboard!)
Otherwise, as totally up in arms as some would be about it, and keeping with the been-there-done-that type of manager, then it'd have to be Benitez for me...
(As for Carlo, f* him and all his shallow 'thanks', now!.. turn-coat!!!)
302 Posted 03/06/2021 at 02:25:53
In which case, we could do worse than Nuno, mainly because he will be cheapish, and the money saved can be spent on trying to get players who can pass a ball forwards.
Not Moyes. For all the brickbats, he over achieved in his time with us, but second comings never work, and are sometimes disastrous.
303 Posted 03/06/2021 at 02:28:21
304 Posted 03/06/2021 at 02:51:42
305 Posted 03/06/2021 at 03:26:41
306 Posted 03/06/2021 at 03:28:58
Im sensing a new era of pragmatism
307 Posted 03/06/2021 at 03:37:40
I happened to chance upon a YouTube video called something like "The beautiful football, Ancelotti at Real Madrid".
I confess to making the mistake of enjoying it from a footballing perspective. :^(
I have the opinion that we have performed much less than our players are capable of for nigh on ten years. It would be nice to have a manager who could gee up the players. For goodness sake, I've enjoyed watching Leeds this year. Words I never thought I'd type. I don't know what Marcelo Bielsa did but I enjoyed it. There, I typed it again.
308 Posted 03/06/2021 at 03:47:17
No offense mate but this is the moment when I go like Begbie from Trainspotting and say “so youre the ****” before starting a mass pub brawl. On the plus side, youve learnt a lesson.
309 Posted 03/06/2021 at 04:46:23
Twenty six years without a trophy and he was in charge for 11 of them. Why would I not want him back?
310 Posted 03/06/2021 at 04:55:47
Brilliant. Like, utterly brilliant.
That's how it will go down if we hire The Holy Spirit to run the show.
Seriously though, I really like this guy. Always have. I've thought he's a wholly underrated manager and what he did with Wolves was superb. I always enjoyed watching Wolves and was honestly jealous of how they played year before last.
For me he's the #1 choice without question. Surely Mosh will open up the bank and sweeten the deal to get him in.
311 Posted 03/06/2021 at 05:06:21
Leeds have been an absolute joy to watch. Superbly entertaining football.
I can see the comments now - can't defend, leak too many goals, etc.
Who honestly gives a flying fuck?! We haven't won a damn thing in how long? Jesus above, just minimally entertain me on the ride, please!
If we played like Leeds I'd be thrilled, 100% down with that, right behind all of it. Why?
Because it would be fun again.
Koeman, Fat Sam, Silva - all just dour. The only joy I've gotten in my time is under Martinez! I did like Carlo a lot. But that was more down to the way he represented Everton. The guy is classy. Like blow on the coffee classy.
But the football was defensive and not inspiring.
I want my ass to be out of a sitting position when I watch again. It's been near what? 6-7 years since that happened?
Ergo, Leeds-like is just fine by me moving forward. Give me a bunch of 5-4, 4-3 score lines please. I honestly just want to see us playing "fun" football again.
312 Posted 03/06/2021 at 05:25:25
My personal favourites are Rangnick and Galtieri and the hope that it is left in the hands of Brands rather than the clueless duo.
Havent heard a bleep from our CEO on this most important matter I suppose that just as well.
313 Posted 03/06/2021 at 05:29:57
I'd have this bloke over Nuno & Moyes anytime (Admittedly Wiki but still)
Ralf Rangnick (German born 29 June 1958) is a German professional football manager, sports executive, and former player who was most recently head of sport and development at Red Bull GmbH.
He is considered to be one of the most influential coaches and executives in the world.
After an uneventful career as a player, Rangnick began his coaching career in 1983, at age 25. In 1997, he was hired by former club Ulm 1846, with whom he won the Regionalliga Süd in his debut season. Rangnick was then appointed by Bundesliga club VfB Stuttgart, winning the UEFA Intertoto Cup in 2000, but was fired following a string of poor results. In 2001, he joined Hannover 96, winning the Bundesliga2, but was dismissed in 2004.
After a brief period with Schalke 04, Rangnick signed with 1899 Hoffenheim in 2006, and achieved successive promotions to lead the club to the Bundesliga.
He departed the club in 2011 and returned to Schalke 04, where he won the 2011 DFB-Pokal and reached the semi-finals of the UEFA Champions League.
In 2012, Rangnick joined Red Bull as the director of football at Red Bull Salzburg and RB Leipzig; he also served as the head coach of the latter across two periods between 2015 and 2019.
At Red Bull, Rangnick helped oversee their expansion into European football, emphasizing the recruitment of unproven players and developing youth systems with a worldwide scouting base, alongside an attacking on-pitch philosophy across their clubs.
As a result, Red Bull clubs rose in market value from €120 million to €1.2 billion during his tenure, with its largest club, RB Leipzig, peaking in value to €270 million in 2019.
Their clubs have also seen sustained domestic success, and generated sizable profits with player transfers, which led to his promotion to head of sport and development in 2019. He resigned from Red Bull in 2020.
Rangnick invented Gegenpressing, whereby the team, after losing possession, immediately attempts to win back possession, rather than falling back to regroup. His sides have been noted for their pressing and high attacking output, as well as for popularizing zonal marking. Rangnick has cited his main coaching influences as Ernst Happel, Valeriy Lobanovskyi, Arrigo Sacchi, and Zdeněk Zeman, and is credited for influencing Thomas Tuchel, Julian Nagelsmann, Ralph Hasenhüttl, and Jürgen Klopp.
314 Posted 03/06/2021 at 05:38:14
I think Nuno may get it, my 2nd choice is Duncan (being mentored by Joe).
315 Posted 03/06/2021 at 05:49:18
Likes his attacking footy
"Atalanta have set the world alight in their logic-defying charge up the Serie A table. Even if they never get around to actually winning it, it's been an old-fashioned football fairy-tale, and at the core of it is Gasperini and his flagrantly optimistic tactics."
316 Posted 03/06/2021 at 05:50:37
317 Posted 03/06/2021 at 06:03:18
318 Posted 03/06/2021 at 06:16:26
320 Posted 03/06/2021 at 06:46:17
321 Posted 03/06/2021 at 07:06:34
Sounds like billy bullshit is desperate for darling David to return. Mosh wants Nuno. And Brands wants neither of them. Im with Team Brands!
322 Posted 03/06/2021 at 07:08:10
323 Posted 03/06/2021 at 07:08:52
324 Posted 03/06/2021 at 07:15:56
Exactly what I said previously, what he has done at RB Leipzig is nothing short of remarkable, he always has a clear plan set out has done wanders there. Very forward thinking coach.
325 Posted 03/06/2021 at 07:25:43
326 Posted 03/06/2021 at 07:31:35
327 Posted 03/06/2021 at 07:47:02
328 Posted 03/06/2021 at 07:48:38
329 Posted 03/06/2021 at 08:00:34
The more I read about him the more attractive the guy at Atalanta seems.
Anyone yet know when next season starts as whoever it is, and his staff, will need to move to the area, get upto date on the current playing staff, work out which areas take priority in terms of improvement and then start pre-season at least a month before the first game.
And then this schedule needs to be cross-checked with Mr Moshiri's and has Mr Ryanstev(?) made any comment on anything recently or does he only speak on yachts in Monaco?
330 Posted 03/06/2021 at 08:22:45
Its a no from me
331 Posted 03/06/2021 at 08:30:16
You dont think too much of Nuno then?
332 Posted 03/06/2021 at 08:33:34
The difference in elite sport is the mental side. A top manager relies on others to become successful. He has to instil in the mindset of his team to succeed and perform at the highest lead.
The last few managers have had various degrees of tactical ability but havent brought the best out of our team.
I for one think there is enough ability in this squad. We havent had a manager who can consistently get the best out of the team.
Ferguson may just be the man, getting his team to run around like Biesla, because it is Everton they are playing for. Not a £50,000 week contract with just another club.
333 Posted 03/06/2021 at 08:34:58
334 Posted 03/06/2021 at 08:35:35
335 Posted 03/06/2021 at 08:35:37
I love the fella. Idolised him as a player, never doubt his love for the club and was made up when he did so well as a caretaker manager.
However, I was worried it wouldn't be able to last. For the same reason you gave. Maybe it would have, and that would (have been) the dream scenario but the team had already run out of steam in his last match v Arsenal.
336 Posted 03/06/2021 at 08:50:21
Nuno is a sound if unspectacular choice. He would most likely keep us in the top 10 though the football would probably be dull. As an affordable low risk move it may make sense to Moshiri.
Id love to see someone who tries to get us playing some better stuff like Rangnick or Potter but perhaps the transition would be too painful given our current players!
337 Posted 03/06/2021 at 08:50:47
As has already been stated Duncs 4 game spell was enjoyable but it was running out of steam. We won 1 match.
338 Posted 03/06/2021 at 08:51:37
Off on a tangent, gegenpresser is an interesting one. The tactic of trying to instantly regain possession after losing it by staying high and putting pressure on the ball immediately rather than dropping and forming shape. You need the players to do that. Repeat warning; we need better players, not just a new manager.
My fear is that he's out of reach being Director of Football at RB Leipzig. But, if we were bold and went for it, Brands' position could be in doubt for that reason. He's already operating at that level at a club in the Champions League. Unless Moshiri moves Brands to more of a "C-level" position.
The man doesn't take shit and builds from the bottom up. He's managed big clubs, he's dropped to the lower leagues and got teams promoted. He's developed youth. He's a German coach, they are well rounded in covering all bases.
I'd love that one, but just can't see it. Seems increasingly likely we'll end up with Nuno, but let's see.
Oh and in a fantasy land far away, should that one happen, health warning. Zonal marking. It's what they do. But you need the players to do it well. We need better players.
Off to play my scratched records!!
339 Posted 03/06/2021 at 08:57:28
I think it will be Nuno Espirito, Benitez, Moyes (please no), (Pochettino be a massive coup but it is unrealistic).
Id be happy with Nuno as a I think we are a project he will throw himself into , sometimes its about the right man at the right time. Nuno has had good experience, is a good age to make the next step. The vigour, energy and motivation will be there.
Im a bit of a dreamer but maybe Nuno is this right man at the right time to turn Everton around and give us some much needed success.
Moyes and Benitez are both very good mangers but the divisions they would cause could create a Big Sam syndrome. ie When things take an inevitable short term downturn fans will be on their case big time , theyll be struggling to operate in that vitriolic and toxic environment.
340 Posted 03/06/2021 at 08:58:03
341 Posted 03/06/2021 at 08:59:32
He will be forced onto the new manager
What kind of way is that to run a business?
342 Posted 03/06/2021 at 09:03:33
343 Posted 03/06/2021 at 09:08:12
Then they can succeed, fail and be judged on their own decisions and basis.
Too much emotional influence remains at Everton and it seems to still be there with this latest appointment. I hope I get proven totally wrong, but I'm not sure I will be.
344 Posted 03/06/2021 at 09:11:35
345 Posted 03/06/2021 at 09:13:05
346 Posted 03/06/2021 at 09:14:12
Okay maybe more than 12 months, but not quite 2 years??
Colin, I hope this is true. This has to be Moshiri and Brands making the call, whoever they go for.
And despite my or anyones wishes (I know mine now), there is an element of realism in who we can realistically target given where we are. Unless we can sell the "project" again.
347 Posted 03/06/2021 at 09:17:44
349 Posted 03/06/2021 at 09:23:27
Unfortunately though I cant see it happening and well disappointingly end up with Nuno, which I dont think will be a bad choice but cant see him shaking things up and taking us drastically forward
350 Posted 03/06/2021 at 09:25:22
I think it would be better if there was a total clear out of the old boy network and some fresh ideas, new training regimes, and a winning mentality was brought to the club. Everton should embrace the changes as necessary and not fear it.
351 Posted 03/06/2021 at 09:26:53
Originally I was in the wait and see who they appoint camp. But inevitably you get sucked into the who it should be debate.
I'm going with Rangnick as my ideal choice, but I know that is not realistic and probably not even on the table.
So I agree, right now, for where we are, Nuno is probably the best choice for Everton given what is available. To a previous point, it plays to us having a fairly sizeable South American contingent + Gomes, so I can see the logic there. It also seems to be where Brands' scouting network looks.
352 Posted 03/06/2021 at 09:27:52
Irrespective of Duncans abilities you dont see this happening at any other PL club - at least I dont think you do.
Maybe Im wrong and it does happen elsewhere, but if we are unique then we seem to have yet another entry for the “Everton that” scrapbook.
353 Posted 03/06/2021 at 09:38:17
354 Posted 03/06/2021 at 09:40:42
"With no European football next season to consider, there is a solid base for the next manager to build his new ideas and start the club on what will be their latest project."
So failure to get into Europe provides a solid base.
Can anyone think of analogous solid bases? For instance:
"I've lost my job and my house has been repossessed. This now provides the solid base on which to build my future."
"My ship has capsized and sunk to the bottom of the ocean. I am flapping around out at sea, unconstrained by the design of my former ship, but it does give me the right sort of solid base I now need to move forward."
Solid base? More like a squashy blancmange.
355 Posted 03/06/2021 at 09:44:28
He's a young, modern coach who has improved every team he has joined and has an identifiable style/philosophy which produces pleasant football to watch. Sounds good right? Though I thought exactly the same of Marco Silva!
356 Posted 03/06/2021 at 09:44:53
357 Posted 03/06/2021 at 09:45:38
Mike, simple fact is we don't know. It just seems odd. I'm struggling to think of (but happy to be corrected on) a top club, in the modern game, that departs ways with the manager on several occasions yet retains one of the most important coaching positions (on paper).
Even when Ancelotti brought in his own (Davide), there seemed to be some arrangement that Ferguson retained a prominent position as Assistant Assistant Coach.
Many talk about ex-Evertonians being the only ones who've won anything for us as manager. Me more than anyone understands that sentiment (key word). But let's look at this.
Howard Kendall; arguably one of the best English midfielders of his generation. His talent unrecognised by his national team as much as it should have been. Won a league title in what some call the best Everton team they've seen playing alongside 2 of the other best players they've ever seen. Cut his teeth managing elsewhere before the Everton job came calling.
Joe Royle. Played in the same title WINNING team. Cut his teeth elsewhere as a manager before the Everton job came calling.
Duncan. As Joe Royle put it; was always in danger of becoming the legend before the player. And he did. Played in mostly average teams and personally as a player, never lived up to expectation. Even when he went to, what was at the time, a better team that he could have excelled at, he didn't quite cut it and came back.
I don't wish to be harsh. I love Duncan. I love his passion. I love his love of my Everton.
But he is someone who has always shown potential but never reached the heights. If that's what people want because he loves Everton and is passionate, then appoint me.
358 Posted 03/06/2021 at 09:47:06
For me Potter would be the most exciting of the three. I agree that what he has actually achieved doesn't look as shiny as Nuno or Eddie but I feel he has done it from much less backing.
People are obviously impressed by how his teams play but I see him like a hybrid of the best of Moyes and Martinez. Like the Scot his teams defend quite well and he has a superb eye for a player and especially the bargain basement types. Whereas like Martinez he always picks a player who fits in with his philosophy and knows how to build a squad and takes the game to the opponent fearing no-one.
The worry like you is that his teams aren't just as clinical as a Martinez and there is a doubt about his teams getting over the line. Whether having better quality finishers at Everton mean there is no ceiling to what could be achieved is the exciting part as his teams create endless chances.
359 Posted 03/06/2021 at 09:52:16
The real key points will be how much Brands has to spend, how wisely he spends it and does Nuno still have the phone number of the agent that helped him at Wolves.
It's the hope that kills you.
360 Posted 03/06/2021 at 09:55:30
Agree, I think Potter has done really well with Brighton and it's great to see these teams coming up, staying up and trying to play football the right way.
But your Silva point. I'm scarred from us appointing managers who have been down there and taking a gamble on them.
Maybe the timing is wrong for Potter. The telling point will be next season when they are not a surprise anymore.
Look at Villa versus Sheffield United this season. This time last year, people would have been screaming for Chris Wilder, whereas if we'd have been considering the Villa manager we'd have all been having kittens.
I think with Potter, and this isn't related to Everton, its wait and see. I hope he does well as he's trying to do the right things. But then so was Martinez.
That's why I'm more comfortable going with proven rather than potential given where we are and want to be.
361 Posted 03/06/2021 at 09:59:43
362 Posted 03/06/2021 at 10:00:25
363 Posted 03/06/2021 at 10:00:47
364 Posted 03/06/2021 at 10:09:37
365 Posted 03/06/2021 at 10:13:57
366 Posted 03/06/2021 at 10:29:13
The fact that Moyes is shamefully in the running proves that the biggest mistake made by Moshiri since he bought the club has been retaining Kenwright, the charlatan who presided over the longest run of failure in our history.
367 Posted 03/06/2021 at 10:39:39
Anyway, I said yesterday that I didn't have the energy to get swept up in yet another managerial search, but that clearly didn't last.
368 Posted 03/06/2021 at 10:40:07
369 Posted 03/06/2021 at 10:49:52
I would allow Duncan to have a shot. Why? Firstly, he won't ask for a massive big contract. Secondly, Brands would make the call of who we're signing, young with potential. (I don't like the idea of 29ish players being bought for a large sum and long contracts.) Thirdly, he has shown he can motivate players to play and not worry about changing shape. If Chelsea can allow Lampard to have a go, why not let Duncan try?
370 Posted 03/06/2021 at 10:52:37
Hopefully the link below works
I would be reasonably happy to see Duncan Ferguson be offered a chance. Not sure if he would necessarily be the right man to lead us forward in the long term but be would certainly not suffer fools gladly as this link possibly demonstrates if it works. It would also end thoughts on whether he is good enough to lead our club, bit like the Alan Shearer stint at Newcastle and Dalglish's second coming at Liverpool (although those didn't end well).
371 Posted 03/06/2021 at 10:56:39
Reading the Everton comments I get the sense that folk are split between the ‘young, hungry manager and someone more proven.
My feeling is we tried a Hollywood manager who simply used us to wait for a bigger job. We were his £11m holding pattern. We also arent going to risk a relative unknown like Potter or whoever. Those guys might be a busted flush next season, and Id rather it was with another team.
Nuno seems like to best of both worlds, and most key would be able to get the most out of our better players, including James. In terms of attracting players of caliber - Ancellotti did that and it didnt work. As others have said, we are a mid-table team with higher aspirations. Sadly our club seems to lack the durable culture to deliver on those aspirations. Time and again we look to appoint managers who have appeared to make teams more than the sum of their parts. And when they arrive at GP they tend to fail to repeat the magic.
So Nuno for me simply because he has built decent teams and achieved beyond their expectations. We offer enough scope to stretch his previous achievements and take us higher up the table. Past experience tells me we have to work on delivering the basics right on the pitch and the culture behind the scenes before dreaming of trophies and European football.
And I am mindful of Alex Fergusons comment about goalkeepers never making successful managers but…its a thin market for managers.
372 Posted 03/06/2021 at 10:58:02
373 Posted 03/06/2021 at 11:04:24
The time was not right 18 Months ago, my personal opinion, he is ready now to at last try and get some pride and passion back, surely at worst, he should be on the short list.
374 Posted 03/06/2021 at 11:07:14
My choice would be Zizou. Surely you would at least make the call and ask him after what he said on leaving Madrid. He wants something long term, is a proven winner and the 1st time he left Madrid they dropped right off, came back CL semi and 2nd la liga. Automatically gains respect as a worldly ex player and 3 time CL winning Manager and obviously doesnt care about reputation, got rid of Bale and James and bought in young hungry players from the youth system.
“Im not tired of coaching. Im leaving because I feel that the club no longer gives me the confidence I need, it doesnt offer me the support I need to build something in the medium or long term”.
375 Posted 03/06/2021 at 11:09:16
Frank Lampard also did well in his full season at Chelsea when they had a transfer embargo getting them in the top 4. Duncan has not had the same managerial experience.
376 Posted 03/06/2021 at 11:10:48
377 Posted 03/06/2021 at 11:13:56
Someone like Rangnick is likely to have a much broader influence on the vision and strategy on the football side, and that might change the brief for the manager somewhat, someone who is more of a coach who can implement Rangnick's brief. That would disqualify Nuno and especially Moyes. It might make Ferguson more of an option but like others, I have my doubts about his talent, if not his committment. In truth, if we purused Rangnick in the role described, he, not Moshiri or Billy, would be picking the coach.
378 Posted 03/06/2021 at 11:16:48
Whoever gets the gig will last about 18 months tops, then get fired as we languish in mid table ad infinitum. Being an Evertonian is about being average at best. We never win anything, we never get anywhere, we never progress or improve to any great level and we've been rubbish to watch for years barring a short spell when Martinez was in charge.
The competition in the PL is way beyond us - we finished 10th last year on merit. It was absolutely where we deserved to be and I see nothing to indicate anything is going to change anytime soon.
Ancelotti said Everton aspire to play in Europe and that's it, that's the limit of our ambition, and he's right. If you employ a top manager but have an average setup and average footballers, you'll get average results regardless.
You could bring in Guardiola and we'd still be shit.
379 Posted 03/06/2021 at 11:40:38
380 Posted 03/06/2021 at 11:49:04
381 Posted 03/06/2021 at 11:54:01
382 Posted 03/06/2021 at 11:56:19
My preference is Simeone, can you imagine him and Duncan walking into the dressing room after another piss poor performance.
383 Posted 03/06/2021 at 11:56:23
The transfer window opens shortly, and if we dont have a manager in place by then, we will not be shipping players out, and how can we recruit players if we dont have a manager in place? A new manager will have his own ideas.
It may even be that a new manager will come in, and have to assess what we have, and that will delay the rebuilding that we know is required.
384 Posted 03/06/2021 at 12:06:26
We were in a great position this season for Europe, every game he played the same players, and the same subs, when things were not going well, he stuck by the same players, week after week, only 3 wins in our last 12 games of the season destroyed our chances of European football.
The players have to take some of the blame as well, but keep on playing the same players and same subs was obvious to everyone, that we needed to try something different.
So yes our ambition is to survive with Europe a bonus for the time being, but we had a fantastic chance of Champions league football, and we blew it big time.
The Manager has to take some of the blame for that.
One final point that another poster made and makes sense when you think about it, Carlo focused on the big teams and tended to get results, as the poster says world wide news when Everton beat one of the big boys, so hilighting Carlo more, than a win against The likes of Sheff utd, Burnley etc.
Whatever the reason, and no matter how poor some of these players are, we have a squad of well over 20 players, yet we seemed fixated of only around 16 of those.
385 Posted 03/06/2021 at 12:10:42
Seriously though, there are some great points on here on all sides of the debate.
Paul @376. Yes, Moshiri needs to take ownership. This is his thing so stop taking advice of supporters like me & Blue Bill. Be ruthless, be brutal. John Moores was. Take control; you are in charge, so make your own decisions or trust the person you have employed to do so and that is not Blue Bill. I would give you the same sentimental nonsense about how I used to stand on the Gwladys Street and how great we used to be. I can do that.
Rangnick would be my choice, but yes, at this stage, he'd be more of a Brands replacement. He's just overseen developing Leipzig into a European force with good business sense based on great transfer dealings backed up with his his impressive coaching pedigree.
He's been supporting and overseeing the development of a 33 year old (Nagelsmann) who is now going to be the next coach of Bayern Munich.
Sadly not to be, so I guess it's going to be Nuno.
386 Posted 03/06/2021 at 12:13:49
Im not into social media (and frankly cannot be bothered to check), but, if true, I guess this is the current generations digital equivalent of cushion throwing?
387 Posted 03/06/2021 at 12:15:15
When things were at a very low ebb he managed to produce some high octane performances during his short period in charge. We played with an intensity that was subsequently not replicated.
If he gets the job I wish the best of luck.
388 Posted 03/06/2021 at 12:19:52
389 Posted 03/06/2021 at 12:22:39
I replied asking if the psychic could tell us who the next manager will be.
Let's see if he/she is any good!
390 Posted 03/06/2021 at 12:29:20
391 Posted 03/06/2021 at 12:31:08
I just hope that is not Duncan Ferguson or David Moyes.
But if it is, I wish them the best of luck as they will be the Everton Manager.
392 Posted 03/06/2021 at 12:32:54
393 Posted 03/06/2021 at 12:34:41
394 Posted 03/06/2021 at 12:35:40
Did you just make that up?
395 Posted 03/06/2021 at 12:39:46
396 Posted 03/06/2021 at 12:41:15
Well give him a fucking pen QUICK!!!
397 Posted 03/06/2021 at 12:41:17
398 Posted 03/06/2021 at 12:42:27
399 Posted 03/06/2021 at 12:44:56
I have followed German football for many years and Im a huge admirer of the way they take the long view by investing in the development of young talent. This applies to coaches as much as to players and its no coincidence that we are seeing so many outstanding coaches emerging there while still in their 30s.
The call here from many for Ralf Rangnick to be named as our next manager is flawed in that I doubt even the man himself sees himself any longer as a front line head coach. However, what he is, what he has developed into, is a world class mentor of younger coaches aspiring themselves to become elite managers.
With that in mind I would not have a moments hesitation in bringing Ralf to Everton if it was with the intention of working alongside someone who has all the potential and credentials but lacks the experience of management.
Ideally that candidate would have the following qualities: a winning mentality evidenced by a successful playing career, intelligence, both in terms of IQ and football intelligence, knowledge of and commitment to innovative football strategies and tactics, multilingual and at ease dealing with players and media from all over the world, genuine leadership ability again evidenced from a playing career, ability to relate to fans who crave success on the pitch but forgiving to anyone committed to Everton, a willingness to learn and the ambition to become a great manager. I can think of only one person who ticks all the boxes: Phillip Lahm.
400 Posted 03/06/2021 at 12:51:19
401 Posted 03/06/2021 at 12:53:30
I actually burst out laughing mate. The PR department must be full of comedians, their timing is impeccable!
Terry#398. Boom boom lol.
402 Posted 03/06/2021 at 12:58:18
If anything, you'd be bringing him in to replace Brands in the current Everton set up.
But food for thought, and this is not going to happen, but coming in to mentor a younger coach. Now there's an idea. But the club probably don't even have his name on the list.
I just think that in his role as DoF at Leipzig, he wouldn't take the step down. Both in terms of club (that hurts) and position.
I agree, it's fantastic how the Germans figure out very quickly whether they are cut out for playing at the top level or coaching and make the switch early.
It's one of the many reasons why they have succeeded on the international stage better than most and continue to produce players and coaches of genuine top quality on a consistent basis.
403 Posted 03/06/2021 at 13:03:15
Now some are proposing hiring our next manager from Wolves (finished 13th), Brighton (finished 16th) and Bournemouth (relegated and resigned). I always thought the idea was to hire a manager with a better track record than our own - not worse. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.
The reason that media and pundits are pushing this calibre of candidate as that they don't respect us and don't want us to succeed. But we should expect better surely?
Conte, Galtier, Ten Haag and (possibly) Pocchetino are all potentially in play, so why would we even consider Nuno, Howe or Potter? If we can't get a top manager, I would actually prefer to give Duncan Ferguson his opportunity.
404 Posted 03/06/2021 at 13:07:24
405 Posted 03/06/2021 at 13:08:07
No former players
No former managers
No dour managers
No morally bankrupt managers
No managers without top flight experience in a top footballing nation
No managers who have won nothing
No managers with an inflexible game plan
No managers who cannot motivate players to have a winning mentality
No managers who will not drop players for underperforming
No managers who wish to use us as a stepping stone
That's for starters. I would draw up a further set of criteria for those who satisfy the first set.
406 Posted 03/06/2021 at 13:11:21
I'd love us to be that ambitious and bold.
I suspect we won't be.
But guess what, like everyone, I'll be here next season willing the next manager on!!
407 Posted 03/06/2021 at 13:14:06
408 Posted 03/06/2021 at 13:18:12
To be fair, the appointment of David Moyes from Preston was very successful (relative to our performances and situation) and doesnt fit with those other comparisons you have made. He was a young up and coming manager from the lower leagues who didnt have a history of mediocrity and failure to take clubs to the next level.
The other appointments and the ones we are currently linked with do fit your description though and I agree we should avoid.
I think we should either be looking at top drawer successful proven manager, or a younger manager with potential who has actually achieved something. Not simply done ok for a season or two. Someone like Neil Critchley. There must be others here or abroad?
Then the sentimental old fool in me wouldnt mind Duncan Ferguson either
409 Posted 03/06/2021 at 13:20:06
410 Posted 03/06/2021 at 13:24:07
411 Posted 03/06/2021 at 13:34:16
Interesting. Since the 1980s, and I think George Graham being the last, there hasn't been an ex player that has won the league with their former team.
Sorry if I have unrealistic expectations for Everton, but that's where I want them to be. That's the expectation I grew up with and that's what I want.
Modern top level football doesn't hold much room for sentiment I'm afraid. But that's what we do and are good at!
Leave that to the fans.
We are Everton. We have won the league more than anyone other than United, Liverpool and Arsenal.
Start behaving and thinking like a big club. Like your predecessors who put us on the map did.
412 Posted 03/06/2021 at 13:34:55
413 Posted 03/06/2021 at 13:37:07
Yes, my depression is not just the thought of Moyes, Big Dunc or Nuno (potentially Silva Mk 2) arriving, but that so many supporters are willing to settle for mediocrity.
At least I am lucky enough to have the memories of 4 First Division Championships, 3 FA Cups and a major European trophy.
Kenwright, on the other hand,always harks back to his favourite player Dave Hickson who played in one of our poorest ever teams. Sums him up rather well.
414 Posted 03/06/2021 at 13:40:50
If you dont think that it will happen you can lay it at 6/4.
Not a very liquid market.
415 Posted 03/06/2021 at 13:42:32
Theres very little astute knowledge within the club on who to appoint.
Based on previous experiences the club seem to react on a whim rather than using considered judgment.
We are a perennial mid table team now so what we need is a manager used to operating at that kind of level but who is ambitious, can work successfully to a budget and is likely to stay rather than use the club as a stepping stone. Consideration of history means the new man knows we demand stylish football.
Graham Potter fits all of the above criteria.
416 Posted 03/06/2021 at 13:48:45
surprise me one bit!
417 Posted 03/06/2021 at 13:54:51
Take your time Everton, because having so many different managers in such a short space of time has left us with way to many shortcomings inside the squad, with the only stability seemingly coming from those who seem to have a job for life.
418 Posted 03/06/2021 at 13:56:34
That's for the club to sort out. Just like they always have done.
I judge Everton managers and players on what they do on the pitch personally. I'm a supporter, not running the club.
419 Posted 03/06/2021 at 13:57:02
420 Posted 03/06/2021 at 13:58:26
Water under the bridge. This is why Everton is such a shambles and we never get anywhere - constantly looking backwards. I hate saying this, but I can absolutely see why supporters of other clubs laugh at us and our inflated opinion of where we stand.
421 Posted 03/06/2021 at 13:58:49
I would also suggest there lies less a conflict between Brands and Ragnick than his would-be predecessor. As Steve points out we don't really want to jump on the merry go round and Carlo's Houdini act mean we really aren't prepared for this outcome.
Brands has a three year contract which could also be offered to Ragnick with a team working under him who would be ready to step up when the time is right. From what I know about Ragnick (won't be as much as Gerard) but his skill set is much different to that of Brands whose more of a contacts, negotiations, board role operator. Both have very similar belief in youth hence their interests are mutually aligned and would give us that vision we all desire.
Steve I don't think the three you mention are first on people's wish list it's just two are the bookies front runners dependent on what the club is putting out. I think like yourself it's a smokescreen but if we are going down that route many are decifering over which one they would prefer.
422 Posted 03/06/2021 at 14:07:54
I wish the Echo would start doing the leg-work before putting stuff on their live blog. ToffeeWeb has more journalistic integrity than some of those at the Echo. I'm not disputing the originators of the 'news' but
a) I'm not convinced of their information
b) I haven't a clue who they are or who funds them.
Wild speculation based on what they've read on here or Twitter and other less reliable sources? or in the know on what happens behind the scenes at Goodison and elsewhere?
423 Posted 03/06/2021 at 14:08:33
Is it in the outer Oort Cloud realms of possibility that he is covertly selling the project to Pochettino with a 500m Moshiri-Usmanov war chest over 3 or 4 years to build a top 4 side ready for the BMD?
Or is that possibility way beyond the Oort Cloud and heading towards Betelgeuse.
424 Posted 03/06/2021 at 14:16:56
We had to buy that January. Has anyone checked where we were sat in the league until 2 forwards came?
Everyone with a working brain cell knew the deals we brought in were not ideal but we needed it.
It seems that personal opinions and narrative nobs will continue to bring his name up as often as it makes them feel good.
It was great last week when Narrative Nob Antonio gave the standard "Sams team have the big men up front" and Allardyce replied with facts.
Both forwards were smaller than Antonio but this nation is so fucking brain washed, he didn't even consider it.
So many one eyed views that all started with spoilt arse Wenger dropping points to Allardyce. Ooo they play long ball. He had great players at Bolton and beat Bayern Munich away.
Its unlikely an Evertonian under 30 will ever see a result like that.
Not saying he is great either but this Narrative is pathetic..
And footballers are just as stupid coming out with shit like Antonio.
425 Posted 03/06/2021 at 14:16:58
My ideal situation is to see Rangnick come in, Brands remain but be more on the board level (maybe replace Kenwright?) and have Ralf mentor an up and coming coach.
Not asking for much I appreciate. And I know how unrealistic that scenario is.
But if Rangnick is an option in any capacity? Yes please.
426 Posted 03/06/2021 at 14:17:47
427 Posted 03/06/2021 at 14:20:04
428 Posted 03/06/2021 at 14:20:21
Why would Nuno be Silva mark 2? Because he's Portuguese? Nuno got a Championship team promoted and then took them into Europe. That shits all over Silva's CV (in the UK, at least).
Nuno wouldn't be my first choice but we have to be realistic. I think even Potter would be worth a gamble, assuming the big boys aren't interested in us. How are managers like Potter ever supposed to become big boys anyway? Yes I'd prefer someone with trophies on their CV who might get us one soon, but does that person exist? I judge people like Potter by how he gets the team playing with the players/resources available, not by how glamorous his current employers are.
429 Posted 03/06/2021 at 14:20:49
Second choice would be absolutely anyone but the ex who was already sleeping with someone before we parted company after 11 years. In saying that it was only allowed to happen because a teary eyed VIP who sits in the stands decided it was OK to do so.
This club of ours is due a massive change of luck with a manager. Theres no magic formula with us and we have tried it all in the past 6 years or so. So fingers crossed and give Nuno a go I say.
Kenwright out would be Moshiris biggest statement for me.
430 Posted 03/06/2021 at 14:21:43
“It just seems odd. I'm struggling to think of a top club, in the modern game, that departs ways with the manager on several occasions yet retains one of the most important coaching positions”
Its really not that unusual or automatically indicative of some malign corruptive influence. Off the top of my head theres Freddy Ljunberg who was retained as assistant manager at Arsenal when Arteta took over, both Mike Phelan and Michael Carrick remaining as joint assistants to Solskjaer at United and Brian Kidd still kicking around at Man City after Guardiola moved in. Thats without taking into account the many other back room roles filled by blokes the new boss might not be bezzies, or even barely acquainted, with. It was reported at the time that Tuchel was taking 3 new members of coaching staff with him to Chelsea after Lampard left, so unless one of them was going all Jamie Madrox, Multiple Man on the motherfucker then there are many more roles being performed by people already in situ at the club than there are personally selected by him.
A vastly experienced ‘winner many lavished premature praise upon produces the sort of rank performances not seen since shouts for Preki to be brought on was the bloody highlight and the blame, once again, somehow lies with any ex-blues employed by the club in an auxiliary role?
How much influence do people believe Ferguson had on those performances because, to me (the Sheffield United game being a recent example that springs to mind), he looked the picture of frustration trying to get his point across to the ‘legendary Boss Nass looking bloke who blanked him and never bothered to lift a finger, instead preferring to stand there looking totally non-plussed.
This was a guy who installed both his son and his son-in-law….neither of whom have had a paid footballing gig not handed them by their Patriarch…. key positions at the club, but its the ‘jobs for the boys network of Unsworth and Jeffers who were taking the piss?
The Ancelotti familys beloved Dandie Dinmont Terrier must have been devastated it wasnt born with dick and balls because Duncs job would have done it down to the ground.
Being told to fetch a board, stop growling and not being let off the leash in public? Thats the life…and if your master leaves a huge pile of human sized shite on the way out theyre hardly going to point the finger at you for that, are they?
431 Posted 03/06/2021 at 14:21:49
432 Posted 03/06/2021 at 14:23:01
If Moshiri imposes another ageing Hollywood manager on us, no matter whether or not it's a good fit, Brands should walk. I'm sure he could get a job somewhere else at a club that would actually let him do his job.
433 Posted 03/06/2021 at 14:24:39
434 Posted 03/06/2021 at 14:26:24
435 Posted 03/06/2021 at 14:27:18
436 Posted 03/06/2021 at 14:29:14
437 Posted 03/06/2021 at 14:32:41
John Kavanagh; you've just reminded me of my first visit to the Vatican when my wife asked why the Pope puts a "towel" out of his window as we watched a Sunday service. And my then 6 year old son's suggestion she shouldn't be there because she was was Protestant. I'd obvious overdone the Catholic thing on him!! He actually got his pronunciation on that wrong and outraged his mother, but I won't repeat on here as it would be inappropriate.
We had a family discussion and corrections in the English language after that visit!!
438 Posted 03/06/2021 at 14:32:49
439 Posted 03/06/2021 at 14:34:47
440 Posted 03/06/2021 at 14:42:29
441 Posted 03/06/2021 at 14:44:16
442 Posted 03/06/2021 at 14:45:43
443 Posted 03/06/2021 at 14:52:59
Its very easy to understand why the players have stopped following Ancellotti, if the rumours are true that he told them all to have a good summer after they just got tonked five nil, because getting a new manager in might have just fucked up a relaxing summer for a few of the squad now
444 Posted 03/06/2021 at 14:58:15
Some of you are rewriting history.
Allardyce was appointed to stop the club being relegated. The owners were that worried.
Everton finished 8th
In Carlo we trust finished 12th and 10th
That doesnt mean I wanted allardyce to stay or that Walcott or the Turkish bloke were a success. They were both disasters
445 Posted 03/06/2021 at 15:01:41
446 Posted 03/06/2021 at 15:02:52
I'm thinking James won't play for us again, actually, did he play for us- I mean in front of a crowd?
447 Posted 03/06/2021 at 15:03:39
Clause inserted that no compensation could be claimed if certain named clubs came in for him.
If thats true he has played us.
448 Posted 03/06/2021 at 15:06:36
449 Posted 03/06/2021 at 15:10:17
450 Posted 03/06/2021 at 15:14:48
I read that too and apparently its the norm with a lot of top managers these days
451 Posted 03/06/2021 at 15:18:00
Apparently we havent.
452 Posted 03/06/2021 at 15:21:58
453 Posted 03/06/2021 at 15:22:56
454 Posted 03/06/2021 at 15:24:25
455 Posted 03/06/2021 at 15:25:33
Not good mate.
A strong negotiatior would refuse that clause, even at the risk of losing the manager you were trying to sign.
456 Posted 03/06/2021 at 15:28:48
457 Posted 03/06/2021 at 15:28:52
And no, Allardyce was not appointed to save us from relegation, he was appointed because Moshiri couldn't get who he wanted, Marco Silva, and lardy arse was the only one available. And no, we were never going to get relegated, despite what you think. Anyway Jonathan, what do you think of Bramley Moore dock, seeing as you were harping on for about three years that "There's going to be no new stadium" ?
Oooops, there I go again, I must have been monitoring your posts!! 😁😁😁
458 Posted 03/06/2021 at 15:30:23
But the only person who can shape things up, stop being sentimental and bring in the right candidates to do a job is Moshiri
459 Posted 03/06/2021 at 15:30:41
460 Posted 03/06/2021 at 15:35:17
It is reported Ancelotti is keen on raiding his former club for the Brazilian winger as he regards him as 'capable of playing for and shining at the Spanish giants'."
That's no surprise, was waiting to see when the rumour would pop up
461 Posted 03/06/2021 at 15:36:29
462 Posted 03/06/2021 at 15:44:13
463 Posted 03/06/2021 at 15:45:28
The first thing to establish is a proper working relationship with Brands. If Mosh signs Conte he's quickly gonna have to spend big, as per Conte's established way. That's seemingly not in keeping with Brands brief though, and Mosh seems to have not wanted to spend big for Carlo's choices. Signing a top-rank winner and then denying him the quality of player he needs to work with is just bonkers.
Nuno and his successor at Porto are not dependant on expensive signings to achieve success. Both seem to able to sign/develop good young players but only one of them has notable Premier League experience.
Ten Hag has been around a good while and speaks Dutch so he should be very compatible with Brands, and it wouldn't be the first time we've had to listen to double-dutch from the boardroom would it?
"Nurse, more tablets please! NOW!"
464 Posted 03/06/2021 at 15:45:55
465 Posted 03/06/2021 at 15:46:08
I highly doubt that rumor. But if its true then its fine by me as long as we take them to the cleaners with the fee. Then again theyre broke
466 Posted 03/06/2021 at 15:49:04
The owners appointed allardyce because they thought the team was going to get relegated. I didnt think Everton would get relegated but it seemed that the owners did
On BMD you know as well as I do that planning has been granted.
But it still needs to be financed.
Do I think this will happen ?
No I dont.
At least not whilst Kenwright is still there.
467 Posted 03/06/2021 at 15:49:40
468 Posted 03/06/2021 at 15:51:28
469 Posted 03/06/2021 at 15:52:19
470 Posted 03/06/2021 at 15:56:21
I hope those rumours are to recruit him to play in our midfield!
471 Posted 03/06/2021 at 15:57:16
472 Posted 03/06/2021 at 15:57:24
Good luck with that Farhad
(he must wake up crying)
473 Posted 03/06/2021 at 15:57:44
474 Posted 03/06/2021 at 15:58:55
Ive got a spare abacus if you want it mate
475 Posted 03/06/2021 at 15:59:48
I may be approximating slightly, but you get the gist
476 Posted 03/06/2021 at 16:01:55
477 Posted 03/06/2021 at 16:02:36
The maths don't add up.
Thats why two things will happen.
He's here for the long term.
Or stadium wont happen
478 Posted 03/06/2021 at 16:04:27
479 Posted 03/06/2021 at 16:04:30
I think both.
He aint gonna bump into anyone as gullible as he was in a blue moon
480 Posted 03/06/2021 at 16:08:40
481 Posted 03/06/2021 at 16:18:07
I remember Barcelona, playing Liverpool, who ended up losing Steve McManaman to Real Madrid, on a Bosman, when they put the idea in his head, that they were prepared to sell him, and rather than searching for the stars, Id rather see Everton concentrate on becoming a much more ruthlessly professional football club, whoever gets the managers job next.
482 Posted 03/06/2021 at 16:20:40
483 Posted 03/06/2021 at 16:21:03
484 Posted 03/06/2021 at 16:21:59
Tired of mercenary couldn't care less chancers coming here for the money and an easy ride - including the players. I'd rather be mid table with a team of Tom Davies's than 8th with a team of past their best millionaires.
485 Posted 03/06/2021 at 16:27:17
Oh, and to add fuel to Richi going this summer, he was seen in the Bluebird restaurant in Chelsea a couple of days ago. No doubt with his agent sorting out his summer move.
486 Posted 03/06/2021 at 16:34:34
I dont know for sure, because Id given up on him and Kenwright being in bed together, but Im sure it was his actions once hed left Everton, that turned most people against him?
Its all water under the bridge now anyway, because even if I could see the wisdom in Martinez embracing our past, I hope the next manager is only interested in the future
487 Posted 03/06/2021 at 16:42:32
488 Posted 03/06/2021 at 16:42:34
489 Posted 03/06/2021 at 16:44:21
Should we not consider whether or not Brands is part of the solution or part of the problem? Are we sure about Brands? I get he wants to develop younger talent but what DoF doesnt. Genuinely, what difference has Brands made? Hate dragging Moyes into this, but his capacity in the transfer market compared to this Guy is chalk and cheese. Are we missing whats right under our nose here, that the infrastructure needs an overhaul and the very person who we see as being critical to our success has been part of the mess all along.
Just playing devils advocate here, but its a fair point and worthy of our thoughts.
490 Posted 03/06/2021 at 16:45:55
491 Posted 03/06/2021 at 16:47:34
492 Posted 03/06/2021 at 16:48:06
493 Posted 03/06/2021 at 16:48:09
You can't say "quite disturbing in fact," and leave us hanging mate
494 Posted 03/06/2021 at 16:49:01
495 Posted 03/06/2021 at 16:52:20
I will also note that I don't remember this being a critique of Carlo. It was more "he's past it" or he doesn't have galacticos to bail him out so failure is eminent. If he returns Real Madrid to the top in Spain while Barca are in spasms and Atleti sell a couple then the "past it" critique is strained. Florentino obviously needs a fix and Carlo wanted an out and we really don't know how and when that all played out. That definitely makes the magician presser even more interesting than a dress down of the players.
The bottom line from Robert gets to it. We have to consider a coach whose incentives are lined up with us. Think of what Silva said even though he did not have the skills, "I need stability and Everton needs stability". If we get someone who can get us into competition for a CL place and they are always willing to get out of the NW then we don't need that. Not sure where this gets us in the present search since there is a myriad of reasons why we can't just take our time here.
496 Posted 03/06/2021 at 16:53:19
Whether he was coerced by United into rocking the boat or not, that was the moment he lost me and most other blues.
I actually agree however, that in comparison to the damage that Ancelotti has just done by walking out on us like he did (and before that in what has clearly been a highly paid Davide apprenticeship) that Moyes betrayal was MINOR in comparison. I can even forgive Rafa and the small club barb too, after this crap.
I dont want either as next manager, but I would accept them. As with most on here, I want the coach with the vision of doing a Dortmund, Lille, RB Leipzig, etc. and finding the best up and coming talent about, and giving them the platform to show it.
497 Posted 03/06/2021 at 16:54:02
498 Posted 03/06/2021 at 17:01:04
499 Posted 03/06/2021 at 17:04:01
I honestly don't see anyone giving Carlo 'a free pass' leaving us 'cos it's Real Madrid.'
I do see a good number stating a truism. RM is a mega club, like it or not, and when they come calling it's very hard for a manager or players alike to knock them back.
What disappoints me is that for all his fine words in his time at Everton, his condemnation of the Dirty Dozen led by his new employer, the still unrepentant RM Presient Florentino Perez, and how in his autobiography Carlo describes himself as a football traditionalist, a man of loyalty, honesty and integrity, he has displayed none of that in his decision to jump ship as he has.
I have already speculated how much the house break-in in February and the drawn out terminal illness of his first wife, the mother of his two children, impacted and influenced his decision over and beyond football related matters.
But he doesn't get a 'free pass' from me as his unexpected departed seriously undermines our summer planning in a year already impacted on by the pandemic in which the Euros, Copa America and the Olympics are all taking place.
I'll add my voice to those asking Rob Halligan to expand on what he has heard about Carlo's departure.
500 Posted 03/06/2021 at 17:04:58
501 Posted 03/06/2021 at 17:08:58
502 Posted 03/06/2021 at 17:10:04
503 Posted 03/06/2021 at 17:10:55
"We've joined Burnley, Palace, Newcastle and the rest, it's now all about coming 17th and above, anything else is a bonus, we're in the prem, do we actually need to win things?"
I can stomach Nuno if he has a good go, but I think he's basically another Carlo type tactics wise. Moyes? God, what a dull appointment by a tired board out of its depth.
504 Posted 03/06/2021 at 17:13:25
505 Posted 03/06/2021 at 17:17:13
506 Posted 03/06/2021 at 17:17:38
I think that Moshiri will try for another 'name' rather than those who have been linked - I also think it will be at least a week before an announcement is made, Moyes being linked has muddied the waters slightly as he dithers over signing his extension at West Ham and he will be pushing for Bill and company to give him an answer ASAP, if he's actually been approached, as I read that Everton would want to seek permission from West Ham before they did talk to him.
507 Posted 03/06/2021 at 17:18:46
Its being widely reported here that Ancelotti's people contacted Real to let them know that Ancelotti wanted out of Everton and because of a clause in his contract they wouldn't have to pay compensation. Now I could accept him accepting an offer from one of the biggest clubs in the world, but it seems he instigated the whole thing. I thought he was an honourable man, but with it seeming he engineered the move, then to add insult to injury in his first press conference at Madrid he said he was now at a club who wanted to win the Champions league. Whereas according to him Everton werent capable of winning the league and we apparently were happy going into the last few matches with a chance of qualifying for Europe.
508 Posted 03/06/2021 at 17:22:31
You never get the sense that anyone but Moshiri, picks the manager, and the club have seemed to change track with regards the transfer policy more than once, so what is Marcel Brands, real mantra?
Dont get me started on anything else, but something doesnt feel right, but maybe its just the length of time away from attending the match, that makes me feel uneasy about something, that I cant quite put my finger on.
509 Posted 03/06/2021 at 17:22:46
He cost us the semi final against Liverpool at a time when Liverpool would have lost to a championship team and had a third choice goalkeeper playing. Oh and who can forgot going 2-0 up at Goodison against a rocking Liverpool managed by Roy Hodgson, Moyes went defensive, he will always be a glass half empty guy.
I'll always remember Wigan hitting the post twice and literally ripping up apart in the fa cup while he stood there completely clueless as to what was going on around him.
Oh and as for those who think he would do better with better players he had exactly the same mindset when he was at Manure, The embarrassing Man.Utd performances in Europe under him was what really got him the sack there as he was shown up for being totally clueless.
I don't understand how anyone who knows anything about him would want him to return.
510 Posted 03/06/2021 at 17:25:34
As for Richarlison going, he will force a move citing wanting ECL football as the reason. I'd be fine with that for the right fee. But on one condition. He cannot sign for any of the ESL 12. Time for us to start fighting back, even if it's only plucky little Everton.
511 Posted 03/06/2021 at 17:31:00
512 Posted 03/06/2021 at 17:31:24
513 Posted 03/06/2021 at 17:39:04
Rob if it's disturbing then maybe the club seeing it "out there" might elicit some change.
Things kept under wraps are easy to ignore by those that choose to keep them under wraps!
514 Posted 03/06/2021 at 17:40:21
I think Id stop going if Moyes came back, but maybe the people who want Moyes, just want Everton to find a bit of stability, because its something that has been sadly lacking for a very long time now?
515 Posted 03/06/2021 at 17:42:52
"I have already speculated how much the house break-in in February and the drawn out terminal illness of his first wife, the mother of his two children, impacted and influenced his decision over and beyond football related matters."
OK - so the trauma left him unable to continue with thoughts of football.
"I do see a good number stating a truism. RM is a mega club, like it or not, and when they come calling it's very hard for a manager or players alike to knock them back."
Wow, what a club that is! Can heal and sweep away all the trauma and quickly refocus one's mind on football. With the added benefit of expunging any bitter memories of a relatively recent sacking, too. And all for half the salary, with "No money" to invest in players.
This has all been engineered, in various proportions by the various actors in the process, to obtain what they all want - as it always is of course. I'll leave people to guess what Ancelotti wanted out of the deal.
516 Posted 03/06/2021 at 17:44:10
517 Posted 03/06/2021 at 17:47:27
Fuck them Rob, if youve got it get it out there.
518 Posted 03/06/2021 at 17:48:39
519 Posted 03/06/2021 at 17:52:50
520 Posted 03/06/2021 at 17:54:00
521 Posted 03/06/2021 at 17:56:18
It could be possible as RMs president was a key player in the planned breakaway by the slimy 12 ( who behaved very like an OCG ).
Sounds like Rob H has a CHIS working inside the club who could provide the answer. Mother of God!
522 Posted 03/06/2021 at 17:57:13
Once Ancelotti got wind of the Real Madrid vacancy, he set his heart on a return to them. He had also become very disillusioned with what was happening at Everton. He had basically "as good as given up on the job" It all came to the boil following the man city game, when he just walked straight out of the Etihad, not going back to Liverpool on the team bus. From that day onwards he had not been seen or heard from, by anyone within the club. Ancelotti had his agent make contact with Real Madrid last week, and it was as good as sorted then. It was only announced on Tuesday, 1st June, when most contracts start / begin. So I assume by that, that was when Zidane's contract ended.
During the few days following the man city game, Brands, who apparently did not get on at all with Ancelotti, called a team meeting with the first team and U23's. He absolutely tore into them, slamming the players for their lack of effort and their attitude throughout the season, and they should all be thoroughly ashamed to wear the blue shirt of Everton. In particular, Iwobi, who Brands called "A total waste of Fucking space" and Bernard, who will "never play for the club again" according to Brands. He also slammed Richarlison, Mina and Holgate for their attitude in games, and apparently there have been at least on three occasions when Richarlison and Holgate have had to be separated after clashing after a game.
As I said, Brands and Ancelotti did not appear to get along at all. As we all know, Brands wants to sign younger players, Ancelotti older more experienced players. Josh king was definitely a Brands signing, who Ancelotti didn't want, hence the reason why he hardly got a look in.
So it seems a total clear out is required. Brands needs to, and MUST, be the only person involved in appointing a new manager.
P.S I was halfway through typing this when I had to go out, otherwise it would have been posted earlier, so apologies for leaving you all in suspense!!
523 Posted 03/06/2021 at 17:57:58
524 Posted 03/06/2021 at 18:01:14
525 Posted 03/06/2021 at 18:02:36
526 Posted 03/06/2021 at 18:02:36
527 Posted 03/06/2021 at 18:02:40
Bill's hidey-hole in the depths of Goodison.
Bill is staring at his signed photo of David Moyes, which he recently got at the London Stadium, following Everton's narrow victory there. His cell phone vibrates on his desk. He answers it.
Bill - Where the hell are you?
David - I'm still in bloody London, I dont want to hear excuses, are you bringing me back or not?
Bill - It's not that easy, that Iranian bloke watches me like a hawk, and Carlo's family are everywhere.
David - Well, I Cannae wait forever man, the porno kings aren't known for their patience y'know.
Bill - I'm trying my best. breaks off as the door opens violently, Bill tries to hide his phone and throws his autographed picture under his seat.
Carlo lurches over the shaken impresario and in a quiet but forceful tone asks Bill "is this what it's come to, I give you all those away wins at grounds you could only dream about winning at and you still want me replaced by the Dour Ginger one"?
Bill - "Carlo, Maaaaate it's not like that, I was trying to see if I could get Davey, erhum Mr Moyes to sell us a good winger for a decent price" "I know how much you've wanted the board to be proactive and I was only trying to help"
Carlo - "Do you think I am stupid, I have met your type before, I'm ringing the president of Madrid to tell him I'm available.
Bill - No Carlo! Please! Don't tell Mosh, he'll make me clean his yacht again!
Carlo - "Too late!" "Your fate is sealed"
Carlo slams the door shut behind him as the disembodied voice can be heard from Bill's phone "Bill, are ye Okay, Bill what's happening?
528 Posted 03/06/2021 at 18:04:32
Thanks for that Rob. Don't know what to make of it and I'm not doubting the fact that that's what you've been told but Brands giving the squad/s both barrels and singling out individual players?
I just can't see any professional doing that to be honest. I'd like to think it's true because it's nothing more than most of them deserve but I just can't believe that.
Again mate I want to stress that not having a go at you in anyway as you've just passed on what you've been told.
529 Posted 03/06/2021 at 18:05:39
Brands definitely has to be central and to have the final say on the new manager or the same will happen again. I hope theyve learned from their mistakes. Its essential that the DOF and manager are on the same page with a unity of recruitment strategy. What an absolute mess.
If its truth at Brands tore into the players , good on him , about time someone stood up and said it.
530 Posted 03/06/2021 at 18:05:41
No point in getting a manager whose philosophy is totally alien to the DOF.
If Brands wants to work with potential then bring in a manager with same mindset.
As for him telling them off, I fuckin hope he has.
Shitbags went through the motions on many occasions last season.
531 Posted 03/06/2021 at 18:08:19
532 Posted 03/06/2021 at 18:08:56
533 Posted 03/06/2021 at 18:09:06
534 Posted 03/06/2021 at 18:09:25
This lot ie the squad have seen off too many managers now. Too many egos. As for senior management I believe its fairly obvious Moshiri and BK want different things. In my opinion we are still a "museum", though the exhibits are beginning to rust they are that old. Too many ex pros leeching off the club and seeing Mr Blubberer as an easy touch. "Hi Bill gizz a job".
I see Morecambe are now looking for a manager may I suggest Ferguson applies and takes Unsworth as his No2. Lets see what they can do in the real world. If they are a success, EFC will no doubt give them an opportunity sometime down the road.
We need a total overhaul. As a business and as a Football Club we are a basket case. To get Carlo Ancellotti and blow it - F*ck Me.
PS: Remember what Morgan said when he left for France - Its good to be at a well run club !!!
535 Posted 03/06/2021 at 18:09:47
536 Posted 03/06/2021 at 18:11:30
537 Posted 03/06/2021 at 18:11:34
Is it along the same lines where there are too many fingers in the pie. Certain board members over ruling other peoples roles? Something I heard a while back but wasn't concrete.
538 Posted 03/06/2021 at 18:12:38
539 Posted 03/06/2021 at 18:16:14
I particularly hope the Iwobi part is true. He is a DISGRACE.
540 Posted 03/06/2021 at 18:17:11
541 Posted 03/06/2021 at 18:18:15
He brought Iwobi in to improve Silva's squad after we just lost Zouma and Gueye. Gbamin he was unlucky with but he was a poor target for replacing Gueye.
Silva's season ended great that year and even Walcott was looking a threat but the following window was a Brands mess.
542 Posted 03/06/2021 at 18:18:28
543 Posted 03/06/2021 at 18:19:07
Also if Brands only wants to sign young players but King was a Brands signing?
Then King being 29 seems to contradict this.
However I do accept King was only brought in as a stop gap.
544 Posted 03/06/2021 at 18:20:01
So Brands berates Iwobi, as one of his signings. Plus another, King, is not exactly a young up & coming player of the profile he apparently favours. Call me old fashioned but I'm not sold on the whole DOF concept anyway.
If this is all or mostly true, I think Carlo needs to release a corrective addendum to his biography, regarding his character.
As a long-termer in the "Something in the fabric" camp, the other dramas wouldn't surprise me at all.
Who needs Emmerdale Farm when there's Finch Farm.
545 Posted 03/06/2021 at 18:20:48
546 Posted 03/06/2021 at 18:22:55
The club has gone backward since Moshiri came ( or the team I should say) and theres no other way to desrcibe it.
547 Posted 03/06/2021 at 18:23:03
Is Blue Bill selling tickets for the next Richy Holgate fight? It would certainly be more entertaining than the football being served up.
For me, Carlo was simply the Italian Walter Smith.
548 Posted 03/06/2021 at 18:23:48
549 Posted 03/06/2021 at 18:24:37
550 Posted 03/06/2021 at 18:25:24
551 Posted 03/06/2021 at 18:26:37
552 Posted 03/06/2021 at 18:26:48
553 Posted 03/06/2021 at 18:30:18
554 Posted 03/06/2021 at 18:30:24
555 Posted 03/06/2021 at 18:31:46
It has been clear from Carlo's body language that something wasn't right.
I presume Brands had also told him of the budget for the summer. Carlo was clearly giving us all a signal picking 2 goalies on the bench.
I recall that towrds the end of Moyes' tenure, he was stalling on a new contract(not just in case Whisky nose gave him the call ) but to apply pressure on our tight fisted board.
It's all a manager can do to publicly display how crap his squad is.
Unfortunately the only players other clubs would be interested in are our better ones and now Carlo has clearly identified that half our squad is rubbish.
The value must have dropped alarmingly.
556 Posted 03/06/2021 at 18:32:48
I don't believe for one minute he tore into the first team squad in that fashion using that kind of language.
"(In particular, Iwobi, who Brands called "A total waste of Fucking space")"
That's a player he signed lol. If you said Big Dunc did then fair enough but Brands I aint buying it sorry no way.
557 Posted 03/06/2021 at 18:33:17
558 Posted 03/06/2021 at 18:33:36
Remember Baines battered Eto and Anichebe was sent home by Moyes for wearing red boots in training. All from great Sources.
Daniel 556 me neither mate it makes no sense for a director of football to alienate players. He'd be worried he might sweat in the heat of a rant.
559 Posted 03/06/2021 at 18:35:17
560 Posted 03/06/2021 at 18:35:38
561 Posted 03/06/2021 at 18:37:13
Have a read of this - exactly the sort of stuff Everton should have been doing for years even with no money. But youll never get that past The Great Saviour.
562 Posted 03/06/2021 at 18:37:54
If Brands is that involved it is almost impossible for us to keep a manager because who likes their toes stepped on?
563 Posted 03/06/2021 at 18:37:56
As you know rumors run wild in this city and you have to take most of them with a pinch of salt, but a lot of what you say kinda makes some of the pieces fit.
I think some of it is a bit of embroidery - I don't think he would single out Iwobi and call him a waste of space, even if it is true, but I'm buying most of that.
Well you've certainly narrowed the field down girl. Great post
564 Posted 03/06/2021 at 18:40:18
If half of that is right Brands stock has risen 100% and Ancelotti nailed as a spineless con man in my view. Perhaps Brands can be the guiding hand the club needs at board level certainly it feels like the first glimpse of light in this farago.
565 Posted 03/06/2021 at 18:41:54
The EPL being so physical is no country for old men and we definitely need more young, strong, athletic players, with of course a sprinkling of old heads and a player or two who can actually pass the ball. Also coaches and trainers who can condition, motivate and organise them into a proper team.
I think the terrible end to the season can only be explained by internal club problems causing a collapse of morale, so let us hope a new broom will get of the bad eggs, to mix metaphors.
The moneyball approach is to sign good promising players aged 22 or younger and sell them at a profit five years later. Doses anyone know Nuno's attitude to youth?
566 Posted 03/06/2021 at 18:42:07
I did think Carlo and Brands got on at least socially because of the public endorsement Carlo gave him when Brands contract was coming up. However the players they both wanted seemed more at odds and contentious.
I read somewhere that Iwobi was actually a Moshiri signing from being a fan from his Arsenal board member days. I did put the blame on Brands but if he tore into him like that, and rightly so, maybe he was a Moshiri indulgence signing
567 Posted 03/06/2021 at 18:42:09
The procession route goes from Mechano Land down onto Scotty Road and into town.
If someone can gimme a hand we can move the signs and reroute it so they all walk right into the Mersey!
568 Posted 03/06/2021 at 18:43:22
The funny thing is, Real Madrid will be a tougher job as they are a complete mess of a squad. Carlo had it cushty here, no pressure as he had 59 points in the bag and I reckon by adding 3 good players could have got us in the mix next season for 5th or even 4th with a few more points. I think he's a top coach, but will struggle to get going at Real. There's no young Ronaldo or Gareth Bale there anymore.
For our new manager interviews, the board should ask:"What do you think of Simms, Gordon, Branthwaite and Nkounkou?" If they don't know the squad well then pass. We can't wait until the last day of pre-season or late in the transfer window before the new manager decides on who he needs for next season.
569 Posted 03/06/2021 at 18:43:37
And agreed Jason, that does indicate the mutual need for this arrangement. Florentino's is obvious and we're presently speculating on Carlo's motivation and timing. All we know is that it was preferable to Everton at the prices quoted.
570 Posted 03/06/2021 at 18:43:42
I think most of what you posted is true and if so I fear for the new manager whoever he is.
571 Posted 03/06/2021 at 18:47:23
'One flew out of the Cuckoos Nest'.
PS: Have we signed a new manager yet ?
572 Posted 03/06/2021 at 18:47:42
573 Posted 03/06/2021 at 18:49:16
"Liverpool is a city of rumours. Dont believe eveything you hear in the laundrette"
Argument that suits the agenda.
"There may be something in that Rob"
574 Posted 03/06/2021 at 18:49:47
What will Southgate do without a 4th right back?
575 Posted 03/06/2021 at 18:49:59
When he got the opportunity he and his son and his backroom cronies fucking legged it.
I bet he left Duncan a note and a crate of Irn Bru.
576 Posted 03/06/2021 at 18:53:54
577 Posted 03/06/2021 at 18:55:21
578 Posted 03/06/2021 at 18:56:14
579 Posted 03/06/2021 at 18:56:18
I'm glad someone tore into the players and equally glad that while Brands bought many of the players mentioned, he had the honesty to describe them accurately.
I really hope this happened. Its noteworthy that there have been no 'goodbye and thank you' tweets. Even Mourinho got a few of those.
580 Posted 03/06/2021 at 18:56:31
581 Posted 03/06/2021 at 18:58:09
Thing is now the conundrum of who is, or will be in the frame for the job, I'm surprised Roger Rabbit hasn't been mentioned when it comes to frames !
582 Posted 03/06/2021 at 18:58:52
583 Posted 03/06/2021 at 19:01:59
584 Posted 03/06/2021 at 19:02:47
585 Posted 03/06/2021 at 19:04:06
I'm mild mannered in normal life and with my family but in certain professional circumstances I've been in and on the football pitch or in the changing room I'm a different beast.
If true, I hope Brands is finally taking control of the situation because someone needs to.
Darren Hind; echo your shout on Collette's post.
586 Posted 03/06/2021 at 19:04:54
As a DOF, Brands should be the one selecting the next manager. I'd imagine like any other DOF, he already had a working list drawn up of potential replacements. I read something a while back when Les Reid was the DOF down at Southampton, that he would have a regular updated manager 'transfer target' list ready to go in case anything happened to their current manager.
To be honest, I can't see the 3 names linked to us by the media even being on his list. Moyes has literally had his first good season in management since leaving us all those years ago. Speaking with my WHU supporting friend, this year has basically been the same as our 4th placed year. He said they had a few good games, but it basically boiled down to that they weren't as bad compared to some of the other teams that they played. He said if the season had lasted a few more weeks, that they would have completely fallen out of European contention as they were completely burnt out from the season.
Nuno is also a no for me. For all the praise he gets for that Wolves team, a big portion of it is from Jorge Mendes bringing in half the Portuguese national team. The promotion year was expensively funded and created the strongest ever Championship team. They absolutely romped the league that year, but I believe they faced FFP issues the following season because of it. Riding off that success and more Portuguese players they had two successful seasons following but the style was very defensively pragmatic. Last season they were awful, while some of the injuries maybe a factor, they brought in replacements but the football was basically as dour as ours, if not worse.
This also goes for Howe too. He gets lauded for his achievements with Bournemouth, but to be honest when looking at the facts, they aren't that impressive. While being small in statue, they had a whole bunch of funding behind them from their Russian owner. The rise through the divisions was from his heavy funding. They and he finally got found out as they couldn't defend, very similar to Martinez. The lack of a plan B was his downfall, and if he was such a big draw, why has it only been Celtic that have shown any interest in him since his departure?
Lets hope Brands has something up his sleeve, as well as some clubs lined up for the players he laid into. Wouldn't it be ironic that we go and play in the States, and none of our South American contingent will be still at the club.
587 Posted 03/06/2021 at 19:05:05
588 Posted 03/06/2021 at 19:05:23
589 Posted 03/06/2021 at 19:05:55
I don't think many people are enjoying the injury to the player, more mocking the media reaction to his injury, because of who he plays for the media make out that he's Pele, Cruyff, and Maradonna rolled into one, when in truth he's just one of a number of full-backs who can perform the job for England.
590 Posted 03/06/2021 at 19:07:18
I hope he gets on with Rafa Benitez as I think it could be a great match, Rafa is a developer of squads and likes mainly younger players rather than firefighting with older ones who are on the other slide of the slope.
591 Posted 03/06/2021 at 19:07:49
Was it Archie Knox with the baseball bat back in the day?
You very rarely get the best out of people by publicly denigrating them or their colleagues in front of their peers. That has always been my experience in management, both in the field and in theory.
If this is indeed true, things are very grim indeed.
592 Posted 03/06/2021 at 19:08:33
If this is true, it sounds like Carlo has decided Im a celebrity get me out of here, and does make me relieved that hes left, because although Im aware that some of the players are definitely not good enough, neither were the formations that he used, that had most of the lower teams, running us ragged at Goodison Pk, and had me scratching my brain, and making me wonder why hed moved away from making us very hard to beat?
593 Posted 03/06/2021 at 19:10:10
Plus mark my words if Pickford drops a clanger at the Euros he will be crucified and put on pitta bread by the red shite run media as payback for Virgil RIP.
594 Posted 03/06/2021 at 19:15:47
I think it also underscores the importance of finding the *right* manager for the job, rather than obsessing over optics. We just had Carlo Ancelotti, and some are acting like we're a joke club with no ambition unless we throw a blank check at Conte or Pochettino.
If Brands were to determine that, say, Graham Potter (who I now seem to be fixated on) were the right guy... who really cares that he's coming from Brighton? Either he's up to the challenge or he's not.
On a side note, let's not get fixated on Josh King. He was a half-season rental brought in to provide cheap squad depth. You can't honestly think he's reflective of any sort of larger philosophy.
595 Posted 03/06/2021 at 19:16:57
Unlike that shower of shite across the way who made up a song about Seamus when he had that awful leg break, and sang it often too.
Sang that about a player who'd done amazing charity work for supporter/s of that shower too.
596 Posted 03/06/2021 at 19:17:18
597 Posted 03/06/2021 at 19:17:38
My most unpopular choice is Steven Gerrard because he would not tolerate for 1 minute the poor football Everton played for the whole of last season, when Ancelotti eventually gave up and moved on to brighter things with Madrid.
But if Nuno is appointed he is too much of nice person to comment about poor football again being played next season.
598 Posted 03/06/2021 at 19:19:52
I am not doubting what you say, but I would question if your source got this completely right. What I find strange is 3 of the players he singled out were people he signed as DOF, Iwobi and Bernard, and Mina as for saying Bernard will never play for this club again, well of course he wont he is out of contract.
I said weeks ago that it was quite obvious that Ancelotti didn't fancy King so it seemed he must have been signed by Brands, and therein lies the problem. Because if you have 2 people who the owner allows to buy players then you are in serious trouble, especially if they don't see eye to eye. I am far from convinced Brands is as good as many think he is. But my biggest question is that if this meeting took place and Brands laid into the players, was our assistant head coach at this meeting and if not why not. He must have been just as aware as Brands that Carlo was gone and his son Davide would be going as well, so how come Ferguson wasnt making these speeches and seeing the U23s were also there I wonder if Unsworth was there.
599 Posted 03/06/2021 at 19:23:22
600 Posted 03/06/2021 at 19:23:40
So Ancelotti and his family, I assume his son and son-in-law went with him, found another way home which may have been the case for those players living nearer Manchester, and while it may be unusual, the season was over and would there have been any need to go to Finch Farm, Bill and Farhad most certainly wouldn't have been there and I would have thought that Brands would have an office in the Liver Buildings. In any case any falling out between senior managers should have been sorted out by the CEO and, noticeably, she gets no mention whatsoever.
I then wonder why the ever changing U-23s would be involved in any Brands tirade and what sort of manager at any level would single out individuals in any group meeting as they need only answer that they were following the manager's instructions. Similarly, problems with the U-23s should and would be better directed to the coaching staff responsible for them. Unless Mr Brands had merely called them together to announce that Mr Ancelotti was leaving.
How, when and why Ancelotti decided on the move to Madrid raises most questions as I assume that his family, most particularly his son and son-in-law, would have had to discuss the end of their employment with their nearest and dearest. And if Everton are not entitled to any compensation then most surely Real Madrid need to be cited for "tapping" a manager of another club.
Whatever, there most certainly is a lot more to be told which most probably won't be revealed for some years yet unless this sparks a move to completely revamp the Board.
601 Posted 03/06/2021 at 19:24:00
Anyway, the most obvious explanation is usually the correct one: Carlo signed up in good faith for a rebuilding project, something he'd never done before. It turns out he's not very good at it, and he doesn't get on with his DoF either. Instead of qualifying for Europe, the team finish mid-table and he's flummoxed. What the fuck do I do with this shower of shite? Where's me Ronaldo? Meanwhile, there's a break-in at his home which leaves his daughter traumatised. Then his ex-wife dies leaving his son miserable. His agent says do you fancy Madrid again Carlo? Too fucking right I do, says Carlo, and off he trots.
No conspiracy theories, no storming out, no nothing. Just a bloke who has had a shit year, and has been offered a lovely get out of jail card - a year (perhaps) in lovely Madrid, playing in Europe, lots of decent players, great wine, great food, sunshine, and no scallies robbing your home. Take me with you Carlo.
602 Posted 03/06/2021 at 19:24:08
Recruitment is essential to your company. Undertaken correctly it will result in you acquiring high-calibre, long-term assets for the company and will actually, reduce your future recruitment requirements. Poor recruitment procedures and processes can only damage the company bottom line and will, in effect, increase your recruitment needs.
Poor recruitment procedures and processes can only damage the company bottom line and will, in effect, increase your recruitment needs.
Current thinking on recruitment of Everton's board.
603 Posted 03/06/2021 at 19:26:31
I hope you don't think I was having a pop at you because I wasn't. Just seeing as we were prepared to let Bernard go in January, even if he has 12 months left. I would be surprised to see him here next season.
604 Posted 03/06/2021 at 19:27:50
Not saying it is in fact true but it does operate as a functional theory of what happened until you can get some facts that contradict.
605 Posted 03/06/2021 at 19:30:49
Hopefully this time next season we're in a better place, Real haven't won a thing and Carlo is looking for another job.
606 Posted 03/06/2021 at 19:31:56
Choosing such a manager as Potter, Moyes or Dunc, they would be through door faster than you could open the bloody thing.
Sitting in the middle of those two extremes sits Nuno or my own choice of Ten Hag.
607 Posted 03/06/2021 at 19:38:39
Conte should at least be approached, he wants big wages and Levy is a skinflint, so you never know.
If the answer is 'no' then Pochetino must be invited next, they are the real deal and Moshiri knows it.
I'd be amazed if we didn't at least try and get either of them.
608 Posted 03/06/2021 at 19:39:25
609 Posted 03/06/2021 at 19:41:46
He was looking to add Tom in one of his west end plays, As well as Managing our football club.
Now he is chasing Moyes so he and Bill can do a stage play of Shirley Valentine, Bill with his flowing grey locks playing Shirley, while Davey sits by the bar, playing ive got a brand new pair of kecks, on his bagpipes.
With Bill doing a reworking of those were the Days my friend, on cyrils crossbar then, I took my sweets and headed in the pen, in later years of goading, I formed the true Blue holding, ring fenced kings Dock, and lost Artetas cash.
Finishing with an encore of the famous hankey, dabbing his eye.
Moyes wheres your trousers.
610 Posted 03/06/2021 at 19:44:45
611 Posted 03/06/2021 at 19:47:33
Some people don't learn.
After 18 months when the big volatile champions league clubs spew out yet another manager they will be off.
Leaving us back to square one. again.
Cloud cuckoo land to think anyone of that calibre would stay for 3-4 yrs at this club living on transfer fund handouts and trying to get a tune out of Siggy and Iwobi.
We need a sensible choice not another Hollywood vanity project who will just collect the coin and bide their time for a move to a bigger better club.
We need a long term manager.
612 Posted 03/06/2021 at 19:47:47
We're certainly moving up in the world, no doubt about that. It's all strangely dissatisfying though.
613 Posted 03/06/2021 at 19:55:30
614 Posted 03/06/2021 at 19:58:39
615 Posted 03/06/2021 at 19:58:57
616 Posted 03/06/2021 at 20:01:05
617 Posted 03/06/2021 at 20:01:25
618 Posted 03/06/2021 at 20:02:26
Why wouldnt people believe you?
You are an honest poster on TW. Respected by all.
I believe you 100%
619 Posted 03/06/2021 at 20:02:59
620 Posted 03/06/2021 at 20:05:36
621 Posted 03/06/2021 at 20:10:39
622 Posted 03/06/2021 at 20:15:04
I was at Finch Farm on the Saturday they set off for Manchester (they were doing an overnight), and there was a weird vibe as they got on the coach.
The Richarlison / Holgate beef is true, and Brands and Ancelotti had pretty much broken down a while ago.
He didnt mention the Brands meeting but kind of confirms a couple of the things Rob says.
623 Posted 03/06/2021 at 20:15:54
624 Posted 03/06/2021 at 20:17:33
625 Posted 03/06/2021 at 20:18:03
626 Posted 03/06/2021 at 20:22:14
We need a right side in the transfer window and a manager these players can trust and grow with. I never thought Tuchel could do what he did with Chelsea, so it can be done with the right man in charge. Someone who is on the same page as Brands and... hopefully Moshiri takes the advice from the guy he is paying £2m a year to and not someone who wants to come in and rest on past glories while picking up Euro lottery money.
627 Posted 03/06/2021 at 20:25:34
And if you look at the contention in Carlo's relationship with Brands, the fact he didn't make a European spot, and throw in family tragedy like deaths and his home being burgled maybe it's really no surprise Carlo's upped sticks for Real.
The beef between Richie and Holgate might be another factor as to why the stories been going around that Holgate's on his way out.
628 Posted 03/06/2021 at 20:26:03
If Moshiri hasn't got the money to finance a huge spending spree, then I agree there would be no point in appointing Conte or Pochetino. Although I'd like to think we do have access to Usmanov's £billions via his friendship with Moshiri.
But if that's not the case, then big Dunc seems the best bet, at least we'd know if any player didn't give 100% they would have him to answer to in the dressing room. Hard to think of any other contender extracting the right response from our current band of misfit players.
629 Posted 03/06/2021 at 20:27:03
630 Posted 03/06/2021 at 20:27:06
Don't worry about critique as that's also one of the beauties of this site in that we challenge everything and are free to do so.
631 Posted 03/06/2021 at 20:28:15
Re Carlo, my own impression is that he probably became quickly aware of the shortcomings of the squad, in terms of ability and/or spirit, attitude and desire etc. And why wouldn't he, having worked with some of the best players on the planet?. Some of his comments, such as not having the squad to play attacking football (twice I think he said that) and 'I'm not a magician' are pretty damning indictments of his playing staff, and maybe the writing was in the wall then, in hindsight. Dissapointed though in his comments about wanting to improve us year on year if he had doubts then, but perhaps in the end he just didn't have the stomach for it. Still think the players have to shoulder a fair bit of the blame, as alluded to by Seamus a couple of years ago.
Over to you Marcel, I only hope he can pull us out of this mess and turn us around.
632 Posted 03/06/2021 at 20:28:35
Don't forget Duncan has been in that dressing room and training ground for 10 yrs, under numerous managers.
He hasn't helped to motivate them under any incumbent so far.
633 Posted 03/06/2021 at 20:28:43
Or the innuendo and speculation will start.
As you say mate, believe it, don't believe it. Up to them.
634 Posted 03/06/2021 at 20:29:47
635 Posted 03/06/2021 at 20:30:42
This is all incidental I suppose to the main point that the club looks completely wrecked at the moment. We finished the season comfortably the worst team in the division. So we've got another crisis on our hands. The new guy needs to be highly committed, and a very strong character just for starters. I think we need someone to stabilise us, not get us into the CL.
636 Posted 03/06/2021 at 20:30:44
I think that about covers it
637 Posted 03/06/2021 at 20:31:04
I don't want another yes man,talking about a great family club,doing yet more sterling work in the local community etc.
Just get us playing some decent footy,put some pride back and bring about a sudden end to a million and one fucking back passes,please!.
638 Posted 03/06/2021 at 20:31:39
you posted it, explained initially, and that's enough. People can (and will) either believe or disbelieve it, right to the point that you show a video of it. Don't get yourself in trouble with any further detail, Matey.
639 Posted 03/06/2021 at 20:33:34
That said, what was special about Carlo was the ambition Everton showed. Replacing him with Moyes, Lampard, NES just lacks excitement and belief.
Ancelloti was right because of everything he professed in his book about projects and loyalty, Conte wouldnt have that attitude or desire.
I dont have an answer which isnt depressing, but I lean towards Potter, Rangik, or the Southampton manager.
As Ive stated many times before I want us to play a high line high, pressing tactic, so any manager who embodies this is right for me.
640 Posted 03/06/2021 at 20:36:33
Lets hope he gets the right man and football comes home.
I have this strange urge to start singing Ding Dong ther Wicked Witch is dead
641 Posted 03/06/2021 at 20:41:48
I wish I could say I'm astonished by any of that, but what we've seen on the pitch from some of these players certainly reflects your information about what's gone on behind the scenes. I'm only surprised a bit by the mention of Mina, whose effort in games seems complete and who also has been seen to call out teammates who needed it. But if he, Holgate and Richarlison must go, so be it. Iwobi is a Brands signing, so Marcel must take his share of responsibility for that error.
However, I agree that every step forward must now be placed in the hands of Marcel, for better or worse. Of all the honchos at the club, he has shown by far the best judgement, occasional errors notwithstanding.
And Rob, I'm biased, but if there's a TW Post of the Season award, I'd say you just locked it up.
642 Posted 03/06/2021 at 20:43:33
And fair play Darren, I'll do doo wop background vocals to that if you'll have it.
643 Posted 03/06/2021 at 20:44:35
In the end he gave up. Too much like hard work. Only he knows why, but it's clear that the legacy of previous managers players fitting into his idea of a team was at best optimistic at worst fatal. That it would actually take two or three years to get there was I guess not very appealing. Top it off with a personally bad year for the family then you can almost understand that at some point the Italian equivalent to "stuff this for a game of soldiers" was uttered. In truth it was probably a collection of things that made it too hard, home, the squad, individuals, time frames, transfer kitty, finally the promise of something easier..If Real Madrid is easier what does that make our club?
An opportunity missed, gone wrong..inquests on the back of a fag packet. But what is clear is that there will be a price to be paid by players, rightly so, it will be interesting this summer to see who goes. The problem as Ancelotti found, was that he did not have the depth of squad of players with quality or who he could trust to do the job. That replacements are not readily available or affordable to a club such as Everton, he will be a mere footnote in our history, soon forgotten.
Rob H's mini insight fits the scenario too, even Brands outburst, (I have not met many Dutch men who were backward about telling it the way it is) may be a great insight into an unhappy squad (Ancelotti words a couple of weeks ago are now more insightful as well)
Whoever comes in, a clear out of all the perceive instigators of bad feeling has to be done otherwise the rot will just fester awaiting another opportunity to see off the next incumbent. For the good of the club, the clear out must happen.
644 Posted 03/06/2021 at 20:46:39
And Chairman, and coach and ballboy and everything else!!
Wouldn't it be great getting someone who just told these wasters the lie of the land and their fortunes!
645 Posted 03/06/2021 at 20:47:43
Definitely the Carlo tones were changing across the last 6 games and his after match interviews were more and more dysfunctional to the point of being pointless.
Lets hope the club acts fast and a period of stability and genuine belief and hope and loyalty can be instilled into the new manager of Everton, and a new dawn of hope and success.
Will their be a decent war chest and which players will now seek to leave Everton?
The plot of whos coming in or not will hopefully go into over drive showing that Everton are doing their utmost to bring stability back into the club.
646 Posted 03/06/2021 at 20:47:44
Hope this link works. It's a tactical video on Nuno. Definitely worth taking a look. It it doesn't just go to YouTube and search, Tactical Evolution of Nuno Espirito Santo. It's a video by Tifo football who always make very good videos for tactical analysis.
Shows him to be quite versatile and tactically astute.
647 Posted 03/06/2021 at 20:50:28
More things are dripping through on the Echo - I know, I know - but all the players excepting Thierry Small dropping him on Instagram etc seems to speak volumes. Carlo wanted rid of Kean is the latest shock expose, a young kid from Italy that Marcel signed. Carlo has had a magnificent managerial career with high profile clubs that were full of Galacticos, Generalissimos, and Obergruhpenfuhrers when he arrived. To the best of my knowledge, he hasn't built teams, he has fine tuned them.
Whether the basket-case known as Everton was beyond him, we might never know - or suspect we do already - but we have seen how youth was sparingly used, and that Carlo wanted the older established player he was comfortable with. This does not fit at all with Mr Brands, or even Evertons team building mission statement of investing in younger players, and could be another bone of contention between them.
Whatever, apart from the City game, I watched every match we played in, also got a refund on my season ticket for it, and after the heady days of September up to the home Derby, felt like a dog with 2 dicks. then the crash came, and despite our superb away record, the football, especially at home, was turgid. 8 defenders per game, no or few subs made, no driving influence etc. Thanks Carlo, but I thought we left that behind when the gravy man left.
As a director of the Company, Marcel Brands - not BK or DBB, or, even Moshiri - should press on with HIS transfer plans now, improve the team, and then solely appoint a manager who can coach, coax and motivate the current bunch of misfirers.
(dons tin helmet and f***s off)
648 Posted 03/06/2021 at 20:51:01
Let's not forget, someone like Carlo will no doubt have huge respect amongst the European management fraternity & I wouldn't be surprised if he advised others to avoid the toxic atmosphere we have here.
649 Posted 03/06/2021 at 20:53:05
I guess something might have been lost in translation though.
650 Posted 03/06/2021 at 20:57:38
651 Posted 03/06/2021 at 21:00:33
652 Posted 03/06/2021 at 21:03:45
Maybe the confines of Goodison gripped the team to the point of giving up., who knows, but may explain the downing tools by the squad straight after Christmas.
In terms of chemistry then it would seem at best it must have been frosty on most days at a Finch Farm..
More to follow these comings days, Im sure.
653 Posted 03/06/2021 at 21:05:09
654 Posted 03/06/2021 at 21:11:59
655 Posted 03/06/2021 at 21:14:00
Mind you, the tv is on in the background as I type, and unless it is the lighting in here, Anne Boleyn was a rather striking coloured lady, which was definitely not mentioned in our parchment reference books at school. Perhaps we are already in fantasy land.
Beam me up, Marcel.
656 Posted 03/06/2021 at 21:21:18
You can't say "coloured" these days. 'Not anymore!' As Alan Partridge would say...
Very important to remember too if we get Nuno Espirito Santo as our next boss!
657 Posted 03/06/2021 at 21:21:21
Like Mike G late to the party but no surprise.
You only had to look at CArlo's expresion to know he wasnt happy.
It is similar to what I felt about Koeman who downed tools when he felt he wasnt being supported.
A few things come out of this
1 the importance of synergy throughout the management
The importance of backing the manager 100%
The importance of having quality players and not mercenaries (Just read Walcotts comments who was on 150k a week and has accepted a 50% wage cut to go).
Italians are very big on honour and respect so Carlo was obviously offended by somone or circumatances.
658 Posted 03/06/2021 at 21:22:33
It seems that Carlo left right after the City game because his ex wife and Davide's mother was in her last hours of life.
659 Posted 03/06/2021 at 21:23:27
Also - as I dont know Robs age - he could be a contender for “TW Young Poster of the Year” too.
It would be nice to see someone so committed to the club ‘doing the double as it may be some time before the team does.
660 Posted 03/06/2021 at 21:33:19
Sort of skews your post a little as it came to the boil when Carlo left the City game?
'Carlo Ancelotti was married to Luisa Gibellini for 25 years before 2008 split She was mother to their son Davide, Everton assistant, and daughter Katia Ancelotti flew back to Italy on Sunday after Luisa's condition worsened She tragically died on Monday.'
661 Posted 03/06/2021 at 21:38:03
I would advise you to now tread carefully and not give any more clues about your source as this could make things difficult for them.
That said, I don't wish to denigrate either you or your source Rob, but some of this is a bit of stretch IMO, all the more so when you consider the chronology of events and earlier statements made by some of the cast you mention.
The claim that Brands did not get on at all with Ancelotti contradicts both men's public statements on the mutual respect they held for each other in the 18 months they have been at Everton together. That they met and discussed matters daily and that signings were mutually agreed between the two of them.
It's just 6-7 weeks ago that Brands signed a 3-year contract extension and in interview he spoke of the excellent relationships he shares with all at the club, all striving to achieve the club's ambitions. He described Carlo as 'a great manager, great personality, who recognizes and embraces all the club stands for...we have an honest and open relationship.'
Brands expressed satisfaction at the quality of the squad and the mix of experienced and developing players, but that you always strive to improve even with financial restraints. He closed by saying the ultimate goal for all at the club should be to make the fans proud and happy.
Nor do I see Brands as the type to bring all the players together and slam them collectively or individually as you report. He is more about collaboration and cooperation rather than confrontation and conflict.
Clearly something changed and unravelled very quickly in the last couple of months. Maybe Carlo has been leading us on all this time, but as your own walking-the-dog meeting with his son-in-law Rob in which he mentioned how enamoured of Everton Carlo was and how he wanted to create something special here, Carlo always came over very sincere in his utterances about Everton.
The personal aspect - the break-in of his home in February which so spooked his daughter-in-law and the death of his first wife - cannot be discounted as influencing his mood and thinking.
On the latter, his ex-wife died the next day following the defeat at City. It was reported that Carlo flew directly to Italy after the game to be with her. That put's a different slant on him not travelling back to Liverpool on the team bus. Wouldn't Manchester airport be his likely destination, probably with the club's blessing?
A single week between that event - being at her death bed, burying her, still in mourning - to being announced as Real manager. No surprise he hasn't been seen or heard from at Everton in that time.
What that does point to as you wrote, however, is that the plan to leave to Real was already in motion before all that, which casts a shadow over the much vaunted integrity and honesty of Carlo.
I repeat, I just don't see Brands as the type to bring all the players together and slam them collectively or individually as you report. Also, it must have been a very small window to do that in because almost immediately many of the squad travelled to meet up with their national teams.
I don't disbelieve there was possible tension between Marcel and Carlo with one seeking organic growth via the academy and recruitment of young talent and the other wanting oven-ready quality players. Carlo was very explicit about that: 'My job is not to develop young players.'
I also think it is telling that - other than Thierry Small that I know of - no other player has done the usual thing when a manager/player departs of posting favourable 'good luck' comments towards Carlo on social media. That is unusual in this day and age.
Something clearly amiss and (naturally) unreported about the true state of affairs at the club.
And to repeat Rob, I'm not questioning your own or your source's integrity. Just speaking aloud trying to make sense of what you've shared with us.
662 Posted 03/06/2021 at 21:54:29
663 Posted 03/06/2021 at 21:56:52
664 Posted 03/06/2021 at 22:01:37
665 Posted 03/06/2021 at 22:01:47
666 Posted 03/06/2021 at 22:07:01
I'll have more to say, but mainly signed up today to say thanks to Rob Halligan for his informative behind the scenes post, I don't doubt any of it. Reassuring to read that Brands could be so passionate, hopefully he can find a few more players with some of that. Thank you Rob.
667 Posted 03/06/2021 at 22:08:27
I think that's just about the biggest load of bollocks I've ever read.
668 Posted 03/06/2021 at 22:10:48
If Brands did that, it wouldn't surprise me one bit.
669 Posted 03/06/2021 at 22:10:49
I think the majority of the players - unfortunately for us as Evertonians - made their feelings pretty clear in the final couple of months of the season? Inactions speak louder than words.
670 Posted 03/06/2021 at 22:11:12
671 Posted 03/06/2021 at 22:13:58
Yeah, Iwobi. God fucking help us with that one.
Arsenal must of partied for weeks after selling him to us. It was a probably a given that they would give us the 3 points at the Emirates as part of the Iwobi deal, just that we couldn't score for fuck so they decided to gift us a goal. Fair play to them.
Rob. Cracking post.
672 Posted 03/06/2021 at 22:17:03
I've worked and lived in Holland and still correspond with plenty of cloggies. They are as you say.
But it is one thing to be like that socially in a small group of people, spontaneously combusting, and another altogether when you are an executive (board member) as Brands is, call a meeting of your staff with the premeditated intention to lambast them in the terms used collectively and individually.
Just doesn't quite ring true to me as much as the scenario may appeal to the fan base.
673 Posted 03/06/2021 at 22:22:58
674 Posted 03/06/2021 at 22:28:59
On the other hand many guys looking for a well paid job regardless will jump at the chance.
Moyes is still the same manager we had who really did nothing and only the loan of Lingard who hit a rich vein of form made the Hammers a little better then they were.
Nuno. familiar with the Prem. and connections in Europe may be a good choice at the moment.
675 Posted 03/06/2021 at 22:34:53
Some people think footballers are enclosed in a hermetically sealed bubble - rubbish!! They like to chat shit just like everyone else. So well done Rob and keep us informed while protecting your source.
676 Posted 03/06/2021 at 22:40:24
677 Posted 03/06/2021 at 22:47:10
Everton players have now got history and being honest, they consider themselves seriously good at getting rid of managers. Top fucking dogs.
Nuno... Yeah. Well, that will be a laugh, for about 3 months.
678 Posted 03/06/2021 at 22:48:30
Frankly for £18m for 18 months work, he should be ashamed of himself for being responsible for some of the worst football Everton have played. And hiding James lack of motivation. Ancellotti was responsible for the team ethos, the tactics, the culture. So much for not being a magician - hes landed himself the top job in football as a result.
Now thats magic.
679 Posted 03/06/2021 at 22:52:29
680 Posted 03/06/2021 at 22:58:02
Haven't been on here for a while - how's your wife?
681 Posted 03/06/2021 at 23:07:18
Morale of the story is……………”Dont believe any fucker”
682 Posted 03/06/2021 at 23:11:54
Also, doubters Rob didnt give us a full transcript just the highlights. I doubt he walked in went off on Iwobi but I can believe that during a meeting with back and forth, excuses, finger pointing and rolled eyes from players that something could have prompted him to do that
683 Posted 03/06/2021 at 23:14:46
Spot on. The dressing room is rotten to the core and contains some the biggest piss takers going. We need to worry about looking down, not up, as the new manager has a monumental job on his hands to change the culture. We are well on our way to being Sunderland. There is something seriously wrong in there. In Ancelotti, we've just had our Dick Advocat.
Please don't start to think that the players have every right to feel hard done by. This bunch of twats have heaped humiliation after humiliation upon the club in the last few years. They pull out performances like Sheff Utd and then decide to run about a bit against Wolves a few days later. When Richarlison scores and him and Mina are fucking pigeon dancing in front of fans. They were lucky someone didn't run on and chin them. I can't stand them. Any of them. And these twats are probably the main reason Ancelotti has bailed.
684 Posted 03/06/2021 at 23:15:19
Already agreed with you, given the timeline of his ex-wife's death and how that would have occupied Carlo's time last week, the wheels for a move to Real must have been in motion well before the City game, if not earlier.
It certainly changes my perception of the man. I don't know of him behaving like this at any other time in his career. What were the motivating circumstances of that - the realization that given the restraints that apply at Everton it would take longer than he was willing to commit, the desire to get back to a familiar environment he is more comfortable in, non-football matters as mentioned - who knows?
Paul, the missus is a diamond as just as hard and resilient. I simply don't know how she does what she does day after day as she does. Thanks for asking.
What about yourself? You've been silent and missing in recent months. Nothing health related, I hope. Or just hiding behind the sofa from Everton games?
685 Posted 03/06/2021 at 23:15:30
686 Posted 03/06/2021 at 23:16:00
687 Posted 03/06/2021 at 23:19:26
He's doing his job and he gets paid for it
He and the rest of them are paid basically by Moshiri and so it's him that will make the final decision here
688 Posted 03/06/2021 at 23:22:16
Colette 405 - I like your list
Rob - I seriously hope that your source was correct in saying Brands laid into the players. That gives me some hope. Actually when you look at Brands he does come across as having it in him.
My advice to Moshiri - put your trust in Brands and let him pick the next manager.
689 Posted 03/06/2021 at 23:28:33
690 Posted 03/06/2021 at 23:29:23
Rob #679, I had seen the story on Carlo's family loss also, and I assumed that was why he vamoosed after the City game. Such jarring events can also affect one's perspective on life, and who knows but that might have been a contributing factor to his decision. Not the process, perhaps, but the final decision.
Mike #659, Rob is young at heart.
691 Posted 03/06/2021 at 23:36:05
This is the man who keeps saying how well our 'project' is going and how we need only a couple new players to compete.
This is the man who had no back up for Zou a not returning and send us into that season shockingly short on centre backs.
Did he learn?
Not at all, this season we only had 2 strikers.
Where are our wingers? When will we actually sign one that can cross the ball?
Brands thinks well be fine as Anthony Gorden will be available again.
That's the same Anthony Gorden that couldn't stay in the Preston North End team.
He gets talked up here for supposedly laying into the players, many if which he brought in, yet this is the man that watches the same site we have to watch yet keeps telling the world our fck 'project' is going great!
692 Posted 03/06/2021 at 23:37:04
693 Posted 03/06/2021 at 23:42:57
Well said. Link
694 Posted 03/06/2021 at 23:46:21
In fact, we dont need a Hollywood manager - we need a Moyes mk2, as in the early years of Moyes. An article in the Athletic summed it up well. That kind of manager suits the clubs culture and standing.
695 Posted 03/06/2021 at 23:52:10
Ancelottis body language has been downbeat since the Sheff Utd game, to me it appeared a lightbulb moment Carlo finally accepting the squad was not fit for purpose. The Richi v Holgate has been bubbling along for a while so that seems reasonable. Could Carlo offered a list of experienced players he wants then Brands pushed back on 5his flying against his strategy and finally maybe missing Europe had impacted on the transfer budget. Could Carlo of gone fuck this I aint having another season dragging my reputation down. Or coincidence Garth Bales interview after Spurs last game, if I say whats happening next season it would cause total chaos...
696 Posted 03/06/2021 at 23:57:59
697 Posted 03/06/2021 at 00:04:14
Also Football Insider (what is that?) saying Real Madrid want Richarlison. Screw them for at least £100M. Is he worth that, well not based on most of his performances this season, but he still has three years on his contract and Madrid are skint. Player plus cash exchange maybe? Do Madrid have any decent players under the age of 25 that Carlo doesnt want?
698 Posted 03/06/2021 at 00:07:33
Wonder if my ex assistant got all the office staff in and bollocked them this week??
We'll find out in the next episode of Soap (for the older readers!!)
Hope you're in rude health mate, and a happy summer holiday to all.
699 Posted 03/06/2021 at 00:25:05
Why do you want to be our manager? what was your best game in your last managerial position? and your worst ? why? Where do you think you could take us to in the next season. How can you achieve that?
What players do you need urgently for next season? Are you attack minded or defensive? why?
Where do you prefer to source players from? abroad. lower divisions or past clubs? Why? What do you look for in a new player?
What key assets do you look for in current players why?
What is the most important factor in a player, never giving up, positional awareness and awareness of other players, fitness, skill or desire to win. If not these what attributes do you think a player should have?
What went wrong in your last job? what did you learn from the last job?
All of these questions seem trivial but I think are important for any manager at any level to answer. This would be reflected in the type of football the club and fans will be presented with. It would also increase the knowledge of our interviewers.
My choice would be an attack minded manager who has a strong number 2. Who is prepared to drop players when they play badly and give opportunities to younger keen players. Moyes fits that mould but after his deceitful lies I will stay if EFC gets into Europe and then proceeds to lead us to a series of totally unexpected losses then the truth comes out as he is the next Man Utd manager how could we trust him again?
Nuno has lost it, third season more defence less attack syndrome seen it in Howe even Moyes got it when he was with us. Conte in a no go and sadly so is Duncan. However I have admit that Rafa would get us into Europe and have us playing much better football. The German chap would also be interesting but they need to answer the above questions.
700 Posted 04/06/2021 at 00:51:00
Whoever it is - its a gamble.
But jeez, we need to get something right, we can't go on being the club that consistently puts the 'fuck' in 'fuckup' and the 'laugh' in 'laughing stock'
701 Posted 04/06/2021 at 01:02:35
We need flair, talent, ideas. We need what Bielsa has done for Leeds. We need to look outside ourselves. We need a manager capable of bringing in real talent.
702 Posted 04/06/2021 at 01:07:41
703 Posted 04/06/2021 at 01:26:03
It is clear that the managers we have chosen have come from all angles of experience and it has not worked. We are such an easy touch for any future players and managers to treat us however they want which has been shown by the lack of leadership on the pitch ( Coleman and Digney apart ) and also by Moyes, Koeman and now Ancelotti who have basically showed how irrelevant we are as a club. The way these managers treated us show that the people who run out club are inept and lacking ruthlessness.
So we carry on doing what we have now done for 20 plus years and hope that our luck changes.
All talk of Rafa, Gerrard, Moyes etc would make me sick if it happened. Big Sam was hard enough to swallow so hopefully theres a lot more thought into who we appoint as the new manager. We need somebody who is tactical aware and can motivate. A leader from the training ground to the touch line.
Maybe it is time for Duncan Ferguson to be given a go. Im certainly not 100% for it as we dont know his capabilities and it is a gamble but havent we been doing that all along ?
Very pissed of Blue.
704 Posted 04/06/2021 at 01:48:40
The fact that one has, allegedly, had talks with Crystal Palace says it all.
However, my biggest fear is that Ancelotti will try to tempt Iwobi, Bernard and Delph to join him at Real.
Oh...wait a minute!
705 Posted 04/06/2021 at 02:00:55
706 Posted 04/06/2021 at 02:34:48
People proposing Ferguson as the next boss need to realise that managers "grabbing a player by the throat" is at least 30 years out of date, as well as being criminally illegal.
Managers hoping to achieve success for their owners need their owners to financially back them, to the enth degree unless, as Leicester did a few years back, you one year get ultra lucky by ending up with a squad with a winning attitude that would've prevailed in any age.
Ranieri may have inspired them, or maybe it was Pearson before him (it sure as hell wasn't Walsh, the one Mosh chose to sign up) but, by whoever it was, a winning, fuck-em, culture was created there and still bests us five years later.
Godfrey, Coleman, Pickford, Digne and DCL would be massively improved in such a culture, as would the whole club as a consequence. Many other psuedo players would have to depart of course, expensively to us given the obvious five-years-long ineptitude of the Everton owner and board who signed them.
Stumbling onto a manager to do it is in my opinion hopeless whilst the owner and all but one of the boardroom, maybe, still has anything to do with his appointment.
707 Posted 04/06/2021 at 08:03:11
We can learn lessons from Chelsea. An inexperienced manager was taking them to 8th place and the Europa conference league. A top manager took them to the champions league title.
708 Posted 04/06/2021 at 08:17:10
We finished 10th? He failed why not take some responsibility and say I and my team let the big chance of Europe slip. Soren 693, Thanks for the link and just about sums him up- NO CLASS!
Glad he has left as he did not have the fight, he has to beat 9 teams to get first or go to Spain and beat 2 teams to get first.
709 Posted 04/06/2021 at 08:20:26
Has previously finished runner up, and now won the League in France. Some achievement considering how much PSG outspend everyone, and the players they have.
From Wiki :
Galtier was praised by many pundits over the course of the season for both his tactics and his ability to develop young talent including Jonathan David, Renato Sanches, and Mike Maignan. For his efforts, Galtier was named the Ligue 1 Manager of the Year for a third time. On 25 May 2021, Galtier resigned as manager, two days after winning the league. He stated: "I simply have the deep belief that my time is up here."
710 Posted 04/06/2021 at 08:35:40
711 Posted 04/06/2021 at 08:37:55
Chelsea pulled a masterstroke as soon as Tuchel became available. Lampard or Chelsea's equivalent of Brands put the right players in place. But Lamaprd couldn't organise them to get the most out of them. No criticism, just too early in his coaching career. I hope he goes on to do well. I like Lampard.
We had a renowned and experienced coach but average players. Opposite ends of the spectrum, but ultimately its mostly about the players you have.
First and foremost, we need better players than what we have now.
712 Posted 04/06/2021 at 08:45:04
We've just suffered dire football under Ancefuckoffi, Alardyce and even Koeman was too scared to go forward (remember Spurs away).
Like someone else said in one of these topics, I would like to be entertained again.
If we're not going to win any silverware, let's face it, can we please just try to have a go every week.
713 Posted 04/06/2021 at 08:49:00
Pathetic thinking if true, Moshiri.
714 Posted 04/06/2021 at 08:54:52
Koeman and Walshs “4 number 10s” was technicolour proof of an issue, and my fear is that weve had similar issues under Don Fat head and brands too. Refusal to give King, Nkounkou (when Digne was out), Gordon, etc. any real time could well be based on their ability or defects, but it could equally have been because Carlo was beating his chest too.
Why take this risk?
We either give Brands absolute FULL control of player recruitment (in which case coaching is what we need in any manager now), or we move him out the way completely (or perhaps to just u23 tsar) and give the new manager a clear run for their own players (perhaps with some rules around player RoI and age).
I cant see Marcel getting the bullet at the moment, so for the next manager we need someone whose happy to coach and set tactics. Not sure who on the list meets that criteria most, but if its young players who we want to bet on, I think its big Duncan wholl do it best.
Yes, hes a tough man, but anyone who thinks hes a “hand on the throat” manager hasnt listened to a lot of the young lads whove come through around him. The big fella has a big heart too.
For me, this is the model. Theres plenty of top class “coaches” about to add anything hes missing, but with people like Baines and Cahill coming through (with maybe Seamus getting more involved too) I think thats a good team. Get Jags back in to help with defence too, or maybe Phil Neville back as a number 2.
I know people are going to attack this as “more Everton, from a long line of Everton failures, is not the answer” and I get it. But, its an IDENTITY, and instead of having that around the fringes (which we will anyway) why not bring it out the closet and accept that we are Everton. Embrace our Identity with pride! Use it!
Compared to mercenaries like Koeman, Allardyce and Don Fat head, or good hearted dreamers like Bobby and Marco, lets just be Everton. The PEOPLES club. A family. Even if it doesnt put us at the top table, its a way of finding pride again.
715 Posted 04/06/2021 at 08:58:26
Lets have it right, Carlo Ancellotti, rarely tells the truth in his interviews when talking about his players (nothing wrong with this) and listening to what Michael Keane said after phoning Southgate, he also probably never told many of his players the truth?
So Brands has probably had to listen to the manager moaning about the players, and it wouldnt surprise me if the “man in the middle” decided to tell the players what Ancellotti, really thought about them once he knew he wasnt coming back?
A lot of “probablys” in my post, but in the world of professional football, Id say this is definitely feasible, because its much easier giving home truths by using what someone else has said, and people also tend to listen (rather than argue right back) because they usually want to know what that c**t really thought about them, especially if he hadnt said it to them himself!?
716 Posted 04/06/2021 at 09:14:25
717 Posted 04/06/2021 at 09:17:52
The identity should be buy young & hungry players (with an experienced core), use the academy too, pace in the team, fit, fit, fit with a never say die attitude.
718 Posted 04/06/2021 at 09:18:14
719 Posted 04/06/2021 at 09:23:35
720 Posted 04/06/2021 at 09:24:51
Pep Guardiola was managing, in effect, Barcelonas U23s (albeit with a more competitive element) before taking the Barcelona job.
721 Posted 04/06/2021 at 09:35:24
722 Posted 04/06/2021 at 09:37:26
723 Posted 04/06/2021 at 09:40:12
I have read the 1000s of posts on this topic on the 3 threads.
What is abundantly clear is as fans we cannot agree so I don't envy the club.
My take on this is Ferguson should be given the chance. I currently sit a few seats away from the home dug out. Close enough that you can hear the managers from the sidelines.
I moved there when we had Silva and have witnessed all the managers we have had recently at very close quarters. The most animated I ever saw was Dunc. An example one game MIna was having a Bambi on ice game. Next thing you hear Leighton... Have a word with Yerry will you wee man. He was shouting encouragement to the players and telling them where they were wrong. We all saw the ball boys being hugged when we scored. You cannot buy that passion he is blue through and through and cares.
18 months ago he even said himself he is not ready, he now thinks he is. The fact he cared enough to rule himself out last time speaks volumes.
Reading Rob's post it is clear the manager and DOF need to be on the same page we don't want managers refusing to play players that they didn't sign or another manager only there for the money.
Dunc would work with the players, he would work with Brands, he bleeds blue. It really is his time. As has been alluded to many times we have tried up and coming, great ex footballers, big name done everything, fire fighters, time for a person who cares about Everton. I also think we will see a lot more youth promoted this way. Look at who Dunc played last time. Our under 23s have won the league in the past. we do have quality players but they are for the most part blocked from the first team. Look at Carlo why put two keepers on the bench?
This is not sentimental it is looking at where we are and what we need. We have lost our identity we need it back. For me Dunc needs to be given the chance
724 Posted 04/06/2021 at 09:41:29
The big man has been learning for years under plenty of good people (current coaches of Madrid, Barca and the number one international side). Yes, he hasnt had experience of managing directly, but its hardly like were suggesting giving the waterboy a go here. Arteta doing alright at Arsenal so far.
Think over the last few years, weve become ashamed of being Everton. Many of the “fans” dismiss anyone whos had anything to do with the Bill era as ‘tainted lepers. Were ashamed of our recent history, and losing the grand team tag in a race to be another modern “continental” also ran.
Lets differentiate ourselves again by embracing being Everton again. Fortress Goodison, and any team that plays us knowing they are getting a fight. We have plenty of ex-players who could form an amazing management TEAM together. Worth a go, at least until weve built a platform where the superstar managers are going to WANT to come and WANT to stay.
725 Posted 04/06/2021 at 09:41:30
The big man has been learning for years under plenty of good people (current coaches of Madrid, Barca and the number one international side). Yes, he hasnt had experience of managing directly, but its hardly like were suggesting giving the waterboy a go here. Arteta doing alright at Arsenal so far.
Think over the last few years, weve become ashamed of being Everton. Many of the “fans” dismiss anyone whos had anything to do with the Bill era as ‘tainted lepers. Were ashamed of our recent history, and losing the grand team tag in a race to be another modern “continental” also ran.
Lets differentiate ourselves again by embracing being Everton again. Fortress Goodison, and any team that plays us knowing they are getting a fight. We have plenty of ex-players who could form an amazing management TEAM together. Worth a go, at least until weve built a platform where the superstar managers are going to WANT to come and WANT to stay.
726 Posted 04/06/2021 at 09:43:25
Passion and commitment are vital aspects of football or any sport. Ask the boxers on here amongst us. But it has to be channeled and controlled, otherwise you eventually end up losing your head and you are no use to anyone once the head has gone.
Duncan was like that as a player. He could well be like that as a manager.
727 Posted 04/06/2021 at 10:00:31
728 Posted 04/06/2021 at 10:00:33
Guess we're not going there considering how some baulked at the £11m a year Carlo was on.
I suppose having just won a major league title, and a fairly recent Premier League one, his bargaining position is strong.
13th place ex Wolves manager, unproven ex-player or back to the past seem to be the options.
Apologies. I'm being particularly facetious this morning. Just in one of those moods and mean no offence.
On a more serious note, given what looks like what is on the table, the Nuno option seems to be the most likely and most sensible. Unless Everton can surprise me. And they have done that most of my life, so the hope won't completely go away.
729 Posted 04/06/2021 at 10:02:48
Sarris time at Stamford Bridge ended on a sour note, largely thanks to his negative style of football, and that would only leave the Everton fanbase fuming after witnessing an attractive and expansive system under Ancelotti.
730 Posted 04/06/2021 at 10:08:22
731 Posted 04/06/2021 at 10:10:59
732 Posted 04/06/2021 at 10:15:19
Then again. It's Everton. They'll spend days not saying anything and announce the blinding obvious that everyone thought anyway!
733 Posted 04/06/2021 at 10:19:34
If that were the case Brands' reply should have been that Marco Silva's front four that played the most minutes the season we finished eighth was
Mr Ancelotti's that finished tenth
Talk sport did a net spend transfer piece last summer and although I'm sure the figures aren't entirely accurate they had us third in the list with only Chelsea and Leeds have a greater total net outlay. Unlike Silva he was given the tools to do the job and even had the transfer strategy reversed to appease him.
734 Posted 04/06/2021 at 10:24:01
A manager who is employed, doing well and who we could get is Unai Emery - I've wanted him in the past and still do. He works well with a DoF, knows how to win trophies and has something to prove in PL, whilst at the same time having experience of it. Having cut his PL teeth at Arsenal, we could be the beneficiaries of that experience.
735 Posted 04/06/2021 at 10:28:22
I've always said, even back in the Moyes days when we were looking for the Arteta money down the back of the couch, it's not what you spend, it's how you spend and who you spend it on.
Unless you can do a City or Chelsea and simply buy the best players, you have to be clever. There has been good examples that we've discussed here and elsewhere. Liverpool, Leicester and RB Leipzig in Germany who simply can't compete for the big names with Bayern.
Everton has been reckless and scattergun in the transfer market, although I maintain, last summer's acquisitions looked like we finally had started to focus on bringing in a combination of experienced proven players and young potential. Another repeat of that for me this summer.
736 Posted 04/06/2021 at 10:30:43
They do it in agricultural, it's called crop rotation. In agriculture they also spread plenty of shite on their fields, not unlike Everton really. It is a tried and tested system the only difference being that their shite is homegrown unlike the imported stuff Everton liberally muck-spread around Goodison.
737 Posted 04/06/2021 at 10:32:08
Talk-sport did a net spend, would only show me one thing Conor, and that is how much money Everton have been wasting for years.
738 Posted 04/06/2021 at 10:33:52
Your thoughts largely mirror mine. Re Duncan admitting not being ready. I wonder how much of him saying that was down to him perhaps knowing that Carlo Ancelotti had been approached, so he stepped back knowing there was no chance. Can't recall the timing.
However, if there had been other managers he was going up against, his thoughts might be different which brings us to now...
I'm all for giving him his opportunity now. We'll never know if he is able to manage/coach a team but he'll give his all...and won't suffer fools etc
As some on here have said, any manager is a gamble. I think I prefer taking a chance on bringing through youth mixed with seasoned professionals which takes time as opposed to just going out buying older, more experienced players and hoping they gel enough to be successful.
As a club, someone needs to decide what the identity is to be going forward, and take it from there...easy
739 Posted 04/06/2021 at 10:35:33
Interesting figures also include RS (£35m), Leicester (£4m) and WHU (£8.5m). It highlights the importance of generating significant sums from departures to enable sustainable (and very productive) spending.
740 Posted 04/06/2021 at 10:36:34
We kept their managerial turnover, constant rumours and turmoil. The only element we decided not to copy was their success.
Strange how things don't work out as you wish: we spent years looking for a rich owner prepared to put money into the club. When it finally happened, a succession of people just pissed most of his money up against the wall.
Ah well. Onward and upwards.
741 Posted 04/06/2021 at 10:36:58
No more Portuguese or Italians for a while.
742 Posted 04/06/2021 at 10:39:34
743 Posted 04/06/2021 at 10:45:32
If Dunc is failing, then make a permanent appointment in time to recover the situation. If he makes a go of it, then issue a contract as his deserved reward for being a magician. By November possibly better managerial options might become available than are apparent now. Sorted.
This will make us no worse off than if Carlo had stayed, where we would probably have been looking at a sacking costing us £20 million if the recent performances rolled over into next season as I fear they would have.
744 Posted 04/06/2021 at 10:46:48
I do agree with the ship has sailed view though. As much as I'd love Rangnick, as I've repeatedly said, he's already in a very senior position (DoF) at what is currently an established top 4 Champions League club. He manages managers and makes decisions at club level not just the first team. Exactly what we need.
Lets say hypothetically he was offered and accepted Everton. I then see conflict with Brands. And for that reason, assuming Brands is key to selecting the next manager, I don't see him going down that route as he'd be bringing someone in who will challenge his own position.
I'd take him tomorrow, but I don't think he'd accept my call even if I spoke in my rusty German!!
745 Posted 04/06/2021 at 10:50:45
Players said to be gutted and disappointed:
Why would the players be gutted? They weren't exactly playing for him, it was complete dire football and players looked they could not be bothered most games
Some big name players now contemplate their future:
There aren't any big name players at Everton they are bottlers!
746 Posted 04/06/2021 at 10:50:55
1 Manchester City £220m K. De Bruyne (£320,000)
2 Manchester United £205.4m D. Dea Gea (£300,000)
3 Liverpool £190m M. Salah (£260,000)
4 Chelsea £186.7m Timo Werner (£240,000)
5 Arsenal £175m P.E Aubamyang (£320,000)
6 Tottenham £151.5m Harry Kane (£260,000)
7 Everton £114m James Rodriguez (£160,000)
8 Leicester City £86.2m Jamie Vardy (£200,000)
9 West Ham £79.8m Andriy Yarmolenko (£115,000)
11 Wolverhampton £75.9m Jose Moutinho (£100,000)
10 Southampton £75.9m Danny Ings (£75,000)
12 Crystal Palace £63.3m Wilfried Zaha (£130,000)
13 Newcastle United £63m Joelinton (£80,000)
14 Aston Villa £55.7m Jack Grealish (£120,000)
15 Fulham £51.2m Alphonse Areola (£85,000)
18 West Brom £45.6m Kieran Gibbs (£55,000)
19 Brighton £43m Adam Lallana (£80,000)
17 Burnley £39m Ben Mee (£55,000)
16 Leeds United £31.4m Rodrigo Machado (£57,500)
20 Sheffield United £28.6m Phil Jagielka (£51,000)
747 Posted 04/06/2021 at 10:56:04
748 Posted 04/06/2021 at 10:57:44
He would say focus on building a quality squad this way rather fixating on who the coach is from time to time. With a quality squad we might find our managers, by weird coincidence, start to become more successful.
749 Posted 04/06/2021 at 10:58:50
If he could be appointed without much fanfare, under the radar so to speak, this may take some of the pressure off.
I feel hell set standards high. Hell demand commitment and wont suffer fools. He seems to have the support of the core younger players. His style in the three games he managed was more ‘Everton than anyone Ive seen since Joe R.
He wont have any player-pulling-power for signings initially, but we have Brands and his penchant for signing younger players would suit Ferguson.
Hes played a role in developing players already, so we can expect more of the same, plus hes humble enough to know his limitations so should appoint staff members to cover his weaknesses.
Contrary to popular anti-sentimentality on these threads, Id love to see a first team coaching staff consisting of:
All four know and love our club. The only concern I have is that shyster of a chairman and his influence on staff
750 Posted 04/06/2021 at 10:59:52
I know that it is irrational but following Everton does this to you.
751 Posted 04/06/2021 at 11:04:02
The more I think, the more that is what I want. Rangnick.
I don't for one minute think it will happen, but we all like to think, give opinion and have hope.
The only way I see it (in my view), is Brands steps up to replace Kenwright at board level and we bring in a more junior head coach as understudy. So a shuffle at the top and almost a double appointment on the coaching staff.
I apologised earlier and will do so again. I said my head is all over the place this morning. And it is definitely Everton's fault!! Hopefully there is some rationale in that.
752 Posted 04/06/2021 at 11:15:20
753 Posted 04/06/2021 at 11:25:18
Everton chairman Bill Kenwright said earlier this year: "One very famous football club said to me two or three days ago 'whenever we have a problem we say 'what would the Everton board do because they always get it right?'" Big pressure to do that now after Ancelotti departure.
754 Posted 04/06/2021 at 11:26:41
It's fair to say we've had a fair variety of managers and types of managers in our recent history.
In fact, including temporary or stand-ins we've had EIGHT different people since 2013.
EIGHT different people who've been unable to achieve sustained improvement.
With this in mind it's actually futile, AND soul destroying, to wish for this guy or that guy and NOT that guy or that other guy.
Bottom line is that whoever we get is just as likely to succeed or just as likely to fail as the next guy.
Previous experience and/or winning titles and cups has turned out to mean sweet FA.
Lack of winnings titles or cups has basically turned out more or less the same.
So, if you can, save your sanity and avoid the stress and try to just wait and see, and wait who gets the job and see what he/she can do.
Whoever it may be starts with a clean slate in my book because he may turn out to be our saviour or he could just be another name on an ever growing list of people who couldn't do it.
There's NO way of knowing.
755 Posted 04/06/2021 at 11:30:09
756 Posted 04/06/2021 at 11:31:22
I like Ralf Rangnick Brian but not sure after that. I do think Everton need to take a step back and also look at the credentials of a person, we need someone who is not high profile but will love the club and fans, that brings passion and commitment and ultimately success.
757 Posted 04/06/2021 at 11:36:05
Let Brands do the job he was brought into do and give him control.
The coach (coach not manager) can then deal with the players he has. But we need better players.
I know it's Friday but its not even midday and I'm looking at the beer fridge. Everton are like the girlfriend who cheats on you but you always go back for more.
758 Posted 04/06/2021 at 11:43:17
Robert (755), I dont think Brands, who I like and want to stay, has ever managed a club, Rangnick has and very successfully, I dont know if they, Brands and Rangnick, would gel together but they both know the workings of football clubs from the youth to the top of the tier football, both have an eye for a player and Rangnick has had his teams in top physical condition to play a pressing game, which other managers, including Klopp, have followed. I dont think it will happen but would love to see that pair given the chance.
759 Posted 04/06/2021 at 11:44:16
I've got to the stage now I don't know who I want at Everton.
Unfortunately decorated managers aren't a good fit for EFC as much as I'd like Conte, we ain't even Arsenal or Spurs. That's why we had Moyes for 11 years with no success. The squad is mainly dreadful. Rafa was correct we are not a big club and haven't been for decades, we haven't played even in group stages of CL.
It's underwhelming but my vote is Ferguson on a rolling contract.
760 Posted 04/06/2021 at 11:52:55
762 Posted 04/06/2021 at 11:54:44
"Dahling, you cant expect me to remeber everything"
763 Posted 04/06/2021 at 11:59:35
They would fundamentally rip this club apart from top to bottom on the playing side.
And I mean on the playing side. As a club off the pitch we remain an example. But we need to sort it out on the pitch. From the academy through to the first team.
764 Posted 04/06/2021 at 12:15:50
I'm sorry but Ancelotti's performance was poor, if you take his experience into account it was pathetic. Now people say he needed time, rubbish, even Martinez instilled and created a productive team in his first season. Ancelotti was not the answer.
I just hope common sense prevails and not just look at big names like Pirlo and think he has what it takes to take us further with little experience in management because he may fall short due to that lack of experience. If nothing else I hope Brands has his way.
765 Posted 04/06/2021 at 12:21:14
The awfulness of that appointment does not bear thinking about.
766 Posted 04/06/2021 at 12:35:25
767 Posted 04/06/2021 at 12:47:12
Bring Cahill in on the first team too.
768 Posted 04/06/2021 at 12:49:00
Id like a younger manager on the up, more focussed on great coaching and match day tactics. Someone who can let Brands come up with varying possibilities for recruitment and then get the managers input on which of those players to go for.
No mercenaries please who think they are doing us a favour by being here.
It will then, in theory, become a more harmonious club that has its core elements working together instead of against each other. Progress will follow on from that.
The trouble is coming up with the right man, Nuno, Potter, Ten Haag ? Whoever gets mentioned gets criticism that can be be justified, so its back to the first sentence, theres no perfect option.
Well all have to embrace that fact when Brands and Moshiri make their decision and give the manager our full backing.
769 Posted 04/06/2021 at 12:58:48
Ive changed my mind as this post puts it all into perspective - thanks Andy
770 Posted 04/06/2021 at 13:08:26
Whilst passion alone won't win things, he kicks every single ball on the touchline. I watched him with Carlo in his ear all the time and Carlo doing nothing.
He has served under a lot of managers with varying styles. All coaching badges are completed why not maybe a 12 month deal with an experienced assistant
771 Posted 04/06/2021 at 13:11:36
But then we want to appoint Duncan, Tim and Unsworth because they are passionate about the club. That is so contradictory.
I repeat. So am I. Appoint me if that's what you want. I can run up and down the touch line demonstrating my Everton-ness more than most. And guess what, I'd be gone by October. As any of those names would be.
Think big and behave like a big club Everton.
I told you I was having a bad day. Again, no offence meant to anyone.
772 Posted 04/06/2021 at 13:23:28
Everton should at least go down a different route, and I could not agree more of Dunc on the touchline.
I have also seen Dunc having a word in Carlo,s ear, you can see Dunc clearly not happy, but words falling on deaf ears.
Now is the time to give him a go, he seems the perfect choice, but we all know it will be someone else, then a very good chance in 12 Months time, we will be back in this same reoccurring position again.
Break the sequence, try Duncan, instead of an outsider, may work, may not, but at least try something different.
You certainly are having a bad Day Danny, forget Cahill, Unsworth etc, but how can you not even concider Duncan Ferguson at least being given a go.
773 Posted 04/06/2021 at 13:30:09
Because it will end in tears.
I love Duncan, but not the answer for me.
In honesty, and I'm calming myself, he obviously isn't for the club otherwise he'd have been appointed by now. Internal promotions usually happen quickly if that's what's on the mind.
I would assume they are exhausting all other possible options and he will be rolled out as a fallback if they fail.
774 Posted 04/06/2021 at 13:30:41
The likes of Potter and other attacking coaches are just too much of a risk.
I hope I'm wrong.
775 Posted 04/06/2021 at 13:33:01
It will be a change of football/tactics which I cant see half of this lot doing
Or, it will be yet another attempt at a complete rebuild which will take ages
The only one who knows what these wasters are capable of is Ferguson
He has seen a number of managers using differing tactics with this bunch and fail
Possibly he can get them set up that at least they can compete and if not then at least threaten them with a good flogging if they dont buck up
Cant see a great change in playing staff this summer - unfortunately
Give Ferguson a two year deal see if he can do something nobody else has managed
776 Posted 04/06/2021 at 13:35:21
We seem to have eliminated both the possible and impossible in terms of managerial appoinments, over the last few years.
Is it so improbably that promoting from within will be an equal disaster?
Should we give Duncan a short term contract till December and then - depending on our league position, extend it or replace him?
777 Posted 04/06/2021 at 13:42:34
778 Posted 04/06/2021 at 13:42:37
Howard Kendall was great, but again, I just liked watching the football and the players.
We need to sort it out on the pitch and get better players.
Whoever the manager is, I will support. But he needs better players. Over to your Mr Brands.
779 Posted 04/06/2021 at 13:58:44
Maybe Duncan is only interested in Everton? I could also understand if this is true, and I often think if Kendall would have succeeded if he hadnt appointed Harvey to first team coach, and wonder who would Ferguson pick to be his number two, if he ever got the Everton job?
780 Posted 04/06/2021 at 13:59:50
You'd last until October...cocky git!😊
781 Posted 04/06/2021 at 14:04:43
We have tried everything so why not. For me we don't need a manager we need a coach. The DOF model means Brands should be in charge of signings. Let that happen and let Dunc coach, motivate and chastise the players as needed. The list of people available is slim at the moment. Give him a trial at it. It makes for a better transition no period of a new person assessing the squad etc keep looking for the right coach but tell Dunc it is his to lose. If he does well we have what we want, if he doesn't we have bought time to find the correct candidate.
Appointing Dunc allows us to hit the ground running right away
782 Posted 04/06/2021 at 14:05:24
783 Posted 04/06/2021 at 14:11:58
If, after six months we are where we were with Silva - then relive him of his duties and get in Sam ("I am now a short term manager") Allardyce to "rescue" us again. Or, by some miracle of happenstance, Carlo Ancelotti gets sacked by Real Madrid and we have the opportuity to appoint a "Super Gallactico" manager for the second half of the season and beyond.
What is clear is, that there is no "simple solution" to this problem and a lot of stars are going to have to align in the heavens if we are to finally get lucky and get a manager that is loyal, hard working, and effective.
784 Posted 04/06/2021 at 14:19:29
My gut feel as well. Not sure who I would take but I know who I wouldn't want.
785 Posted 04/06/2021 at 14:20:06
Get rid of Kenwright, promote Brands. Bring in Rangnick. Get a coach to work under him. If that is Duncan,
I just fear he would struggle in the current setup and in 6 months time, those who love him would be baying for him to go. Many did with Howard Kendall in 1983. I'd hate to see a club favourite go under those circumstances. I'd actually rather Duncan took a step down and took over Finch Farm and the youth set up.
786 Posted 04/06/2021 at 14:20:57
787 Posted 04/06/2021 at 14:29:33
Im actually surprised that he has done as well as he has in becoming a 1st team coach when he wasted his own considerable talent and showed a continual lack of discipline during his playing career.
If he is serious about managing Everton then he needs to take a job lower down and prove he has what it takes. Too much of a risk at this stage.
788 Posted 04/06/2021 at 14:40:24
789 Posted 04/06/2021 at 14:46:18
For too many years, defeats or poor performances have been welcomed by the club with a shrug of the shoulders and an 'it'll be better next week' attitude. That doesn't mean we should overreact when a bad run happens, just that all the movers and shakers at the club should be concerned when it does happen and not allow things to drift as they have done for quite a long time.
Any manager can only do so much with whichever players he has available to him, however, my suspicion is that the hierarchy hasn't really been concerned so long as things seem to be ticking along nicely, regardless of the standard of football provided by the team. It's one of the reasons that Everton has been left behind by the richer clubs. Everton's results matter, the optics will take of themselves.
790 Posted 04/06/2021 at 14:46:44
My son in law, a red, told me Benitez got out of jail in Istanbul because of an enforced substitution patching up his initial crap selection. At a top Chelsea side he did the bare minimum, did zip at Newcastle and beyond the CL win effectively bankrupt Liverpool. I know he won stuff in Spain but overall he seems pretty ordinary to me - just don't get it.
791 Posted 04/06/2021 at 14:49:05
If we want to compete with the top 4 it starts with a manger who is capable of getting us in the top 4 and having the ambition to win things.
As it stands the top 4 is Pep, Klopp, Tuchell, Solskaer and I would throw Rodgers in there too and maybe a hint of pepper with Bielsa.
The common factor is all these have had extensive top level experience of winning things and being successful.
I love big Dunc but paprt from his passion and love for the club what experience does he have handling top players. Could you imagine a conversation with him and Rodrigues for example.
I believe we have to be looking for someone who has had significant success not necessarily inheriting top players but in genuinely making a difference.
Names that spring to mind are Galtieri, Rangnick (may be beyond coaching now though),Marcelo Gallardo, Conceição, Fonseca.
The potential list is endless and surely they need to be explored to see if there is a fit in where we want to and need to go.
Nuno should be a plan B and Martinez, Moyes, Howe should be a plan Z.
792 Posted 04/06/2021 at 14:53:55
Can you imagine the control Kenwright would have over the team if big Dunc gets the gig.
793 Posted 04/06/2021 at 15:06:15
Then we get to the negatives, for some they are just too much. I just wonder though if they could be won around with better football, Europe or a trophy. Solid incremental improvement. Alternatively a poor run of form and the volcano of past anger will blow. And we all know there will be poor runs of form. Is it worth all that division and bile ?
None of the other managers mentioned are getting universal approval and Benitez certainly wont.
794 Posted 04/06/2021 at 15:08:09
795 Posted 04/06/2021 at 15:14:31
We bring in yet another manager, who will have the same set of players, baring a few additions.
So when a new Manager comes in, he will give those already here time to evaluate, by the time they see that we have quite a few that needs shipping out, the manager is relieved of his duties, then a new Manager comes in, those players survive and get even more time at Everton.
This has happened over the last 3 years or so, and will continue again, until we break that chain.
Now not many might like the idea of Duncan Ferguson, but he has worked with these players, and will have a good idea of those not up to scratch.
It also buys us time to not rush into a Manager just yet.
We all know most is down to the players, so no new Manager coming in, is going to get anything out of certain players.
Let Brands deal with the buisness end of transfers, work alongside Duncan, on players he wants out of the club.
If it dos not work out, there is nothing stopping Everton going for a new manager, anytime in the coming season, but we might just have that little time scale, to get some of those players, out of the door this Summer.
796 Posted 04/06/2021 at 15:28:02
797 Posted 04/06/2021 at 15:52:36
798 Posted 04/06/2021 at 16:28:01
799 Posted 04/06/2021 at 16:33:06
I don't see your point.
That we haven't won a bean has no bearing on Benitez alleged quality. Furthermore we've just had one of the most decorated managers in world football failing so abysmally he ran at the first opportunity. The lesson of judging managers by previous trophies is surely there for all to see.
Rafa managed in similar circumstances to ours at Newcastle and did nothing - he is a massive bag of poo
800 Posted 04/06/2021 at 16:37:33
Thats a shiny trophy we would have in a heartbeat.
801 Posted 04/06/2021 at 16:50:42
802 Posted 04/06/2021 at 16:52:19
The previous season most of that team won the Champions League!!
Chelsea beat Nordsjælland 6–1 to record their biggest-ever Champions League win and Rafael Benítez's first win as manager, but due to other results, they were eliminated after finishing in third place, becoming the first reigning champions to exit the tournament at the group stage
As I say for a club of their resources and team of that calibre he did the bare minimum.
803 Posted 04/06/2021 at 17:02:03
I don't think he is a liar at all we just all have different belief systems.
I wouldn't have thought for a second he made it all up himself.
805 Posted 04/06/2021 at 17:04:51
806 Posted 04/06/2021 at 17:17:11
807 Posted 04/06/2021 at 17:24:47
Weve had years and years to hit upon a formula that works and failed miserably. I find clinging onto the shirttails of rich clubs degrading. Look at the millions upon millions wasted! Its obscene.
A relegation years ago might have been a blessing. A chance to rebuild, create our own identity. How are we judging success? Trophies? Then weve failed. Competing for trophies? Weve failed. Giving Evertonians pride, joy, something to cheer about? Well, only during the Moyes years and still people moan about him.
Heres a list of EPL teams to have won an available domestic or European trophy in the last 10 years;
The top five have won almost everything - thank god for Leicester! Its a short list that shows trophies are difficult to win and shared out by the richest clubs in the EPL - with a couple of exceptions.
Stop dreaming people! Were gunna have to come up with a better plan than offering stupid wages to average soccer mercenaries.
Just give me an Everton team to be proud of.
808 Posted 04/06/2021 at 17:29:49
Nuno Espirito Santo 4/6
David Moyes 7/1
Eddie Howe 8/1
Rafa Benitez 8/1
Duncan Ferguson 12/1
Andrea Pirlo 14/1
The following is the list of major honours won for these managers (ignoring Super Cups, which are one off matches, not warranting trophies, in my view):
Nuno Espirito Santo - Championship (1)
David Moyes - 2nd Division (3rd Tier) (1)
Eddie Howe - Championship (1)
Rafa Benitez :
La Liga (2);
UEFA Cup (1);
FA Cup (1);
Champions League (1);
Club World Cup (1);
Europa League (1);
Coppa Italia (1)
Duncan Ferguson 12/1 - F/all
Andrea Pirlo 14/1 - Coppa Italia (1)
Tasked with making a recommendation to the board, which name would you be putting forward?
Prediction of first response:
But Carlo won more than Benitez, and we could only finish 10th with him, to which I would say that he wasn't here for long enough to prove if he could be a success here.
Merseyside was a temporary stop off for Carlo and his family, whereas Benitez main residence has been the North West for the best part of 20 years, and the Everton job would suit him down to the ground.
Prediction of Second Response:
But Rafa is 10-15 years older than some of the above and has had a longer time period to win trophies in, to which I would say that he is about 3 years older than Moyes, who has won effectively Jack Sh1t.
Might throw a few quid on at 8/1 having gone through that.
809 Posted 04/06/2021 at 17:33:29
810 Posted 04/06/2021 at 17:33:36
Surely that is a critique of Di Matteo rather than a beatification of Benitez?
The fact Chelsea then went on to win the Prem twice after Rafa suggests the Di Matteo monkeyness was a temporary blip. All opinion of course but I see nothing in Benitez that relates to what we need here. Well, he gets points for owning a house in West Kirby so might not jump ship as quick - OR WOULD HE??
811 Posted 04/06/2021 at 17:44:26
Of the bookies' favourites I expect only Santo has a chance of getting the job.
812 Posted 04/06/2021 at 17:51:15
Need to be a bit more logical than that in my view.
813 Posted 04/06/2021 at 17:52:42
814 Posted 04/06/2021 at 17:54:22
Peter Beardsley was one of the few genuinely gifted players we had in the 90s, fans didn't bother about the silverware he won in a Liverpool shirt then.
Barry we will just has to agree to disagree.
815 Posted 04/06/2021 at 18:13:45
The bookies try all sorts of tricks to lure you in. Supposed smart bets evaporate over night.
The odds makers have huge fun with their imaginary heavy gambles trying to make you follow the "ITK money" The trouble is they want their fun to be at your expense.
816 Posted 04/06/2021 at 18:24:40
817 Posted 04/06/2021 at 18:29:42
818 Posted 04/06/2021 at 18:29:42
Funny how quickly my post has spread in the last twenty four hours. I received a WhatsApp message from a mate, a blue, sending me My Post!! I rang him and asked him who he got it from? He told me a friend of his who works at finch farm sent it to him, and he also told me it was all very plausible.
How much of it is true, and how much of it people want to believe is, of course, debatable, but as I said yesterday, my source is very much, shall we say, acquainted with someone who sat in on the team meeting / bollocking dished out by Brands.
819 Posted 04/06/2021 at 18:30:19
820 Posted 04/06/2021 at 18:33:57
I don't mind being patient but we have to get the right man and bring some stability and unity to the club.
No choice will be universally accepted by the fans as we all have our own opinion but the right choice will win the fans over ultimately.
821 Posted 04/06/2021 at 18:34:07
822 Posted 04/06/2021 at 18:35:54
823 Posted 04/06/2021 at 18:43:36
This is progress. I'd rather disagree with you like this.
824 Posted 04/06/2021 at 18:44:50
Michael #808, interesting post.
Amusing summary paragraph in The Fiver:
"Also in the not particularly long credit column of Don Carlos existential Everton ledger is the fact he didnt trash the joint upon ghosting, in the way Jose totalled things at Spurs, or the way José totalled things at Manchester United. He merely left behind a whiff of expensive cologne, a vague sense of regret, and Josh King. As emotional detritus goes, its a relatively easy clear-up job. The club arent going to take up the option to extend Kings contract; theyve been left in the lurch before, by the likes of Howard and Davie, and always bounced back; and it shouldnt take too long to waft the final traces of Brut Trentatré out of the window."
825 Posted 04/06/2021 at 18:49:16
826 Posted 04/06/2021 at 19:13:01
PSG popcorn on isle 2!
827 Posted 04/06/2021 at 19:27:51
. ( dont mean the table )
828 Posted 04/06/2021 at 19:36:28
829 Posted 04/06/2021 at 19:42:16
830 Posted 04/06/2021 at 19:48:18
831 Posted 04/06/2021 at 19:52:24
Actually his style of football has impressed me. Pass and move. I like his hunger. Need 5 players to implement his methods! No new signings and another pay off by Christmas. The current squad not good enough for top six.
832 Posted 04/06/2021 at 20:00:08
‘Its an absolute honour to be at a “Big Club” like Everton ‘
Cue laughter from assembled journos
Then when questioned hell say he just said it to wind us up because he knew we were a dangerous team, blah de blah, and how he is going to win the fans over blahdeblahde blah.
If he does get it at least there will be some top class entertainment on TW for the foreseeable.
833 Posted 04/06/2021 at 20:00:26
834 Posted 04/06/2021 at 20:14:05
835 Posted 04/06/2021 at 20:14:19
I dont have a clue and dont trust Sky, so lets see what this weekend brings.
836 Posted 04/06/2021 at 20:28:52
837 Posted 04/06/2021 at 22:08:14
838 Posted 04/06/2021 at 22:18:25
839 Posted 04/06/2021 at 22:18:26
840 Posted 04/06/2021 at 22:24:21
841 Posted 04/06/2021 at 22:36:24
Nuno is my first choice, but Ten Haag is a great shout. I'd be completely fine with that appointment.
842 Posted 04/06/2021 at 22:44:09
843 Posted 04/06/2021 at 22:54:24
845 Posted 04/06/2021 at 23:52:56
The team Moyes left behind is by far the best team we had thus far.
And he stitched that team up.with bubble gum and spit.
The.team that Moyes left cost less than what we paid for Arron Lennon and Theo Walcott.
Its unfair to say Moyes underachieving. All he needed was a competent finisher and the club couldn't afford one.
We had to make do with mediocore strikers like Vaughn and Jelavic
846 Posted 04/06/2021 at 00:00:51
He made sure his team is the fittest in the Premier League and that explains why West Ham scores most of the goals late.
These European coaches, what do.they know about the value of prolonged stamina and fitness?
Moyes makes sure only those willing to.give their 100%. Guys like Sigurdsson, Gomez, Delph would be out the door by now.
No point keeping Richarlison on the pitch if the dude keeps trying to do things his way and refuse to pass.
Dont.understand why we kept.playing Digne.when he was clearly underpeforming in the last 15 games.
I'd rather we tried Nkokou
These basic.things, Moyes does so very.well
847 Posted 04/06/2021 at 00:01:41
848 Posted 05/06/2021 at 01:18:12
849 Posted 05/06/2021 at 04:31:36
850 Posted 05/06/2021 at 05:38:14
Upsets the wife though.
851 Posted 05/06/2021 at 05:41:55
As for Moyes, Benitez and Gerrard, you can't pick a manager who 50% of fans despise from the get go. Moshiri tried that with Lardiola.
852 Posted 05/06/2021 at 06:32:06
I really don't care where the manager comes from, but recent history tells us that the successful ones are from the continent. Depends whether we want to exist or win things and depends on how we invest in players.
Steve, joking aside, I'd pay double to watch Pirlo, even now. What a player. All in the brain. Oh, and his feet weren't too bad either!
853 Posted 05/06/2021 at 06:42:53
What on earth has he done to get the job? Forgive me for smiling when I hear of his earth-shattering faith/identity-restoring four-match sequence with a 25% win record. Oh, but he did leg it down the touchline and grabbed a ball-boy. How can anyone possibly evaluate Ferguson on the basis of a handful of matches that he knew would end as a handful of matches. In other words, he had nothing to lose.
And now he claims to be ready! The most unready permanent gaffer in our history I would venture. Four games. And please don't rattle on about all that Finch Farm experience that very few of us if any know little about. Four games!
Even imagining Ferguson as gaffer is the embarrassing confirmation of a club in an embarrassing situation.
Sake, pull yer heads out of the past sand. It's quicksand.
I know that these are tough emotional times for all of us but the burglar-batterer is not the answer. The only conceivable scenario for this if if Ferguson has the nous and balls to take on a challenge at a lesser club and be successful.
In other words, leave his comfy Everton set-up and, well, take a bold step for once.
854 Posted 05/06/2021 at 07:42:09
By the way, hows life in the Windy City? Still hanging out with Barack and Michelle? You are sorely missed on the live forum along with Brady/brody and a few others.
855 Posted 05/06/2021 at 08:59:59
What Ancelotti has done, is only what Moyes did a few years back - i.e. left his "sweet and cuddly" middle-aged wife, for the "sexy and racey" late-twenties model.
If all we want is loyalty and passion - then Duncan will provide that.
If what we want is "instant success", then Conte and an open cheque book with the abandoment of any idea of building a solid platform for the future - a "live for the day" philosophy, if you will, can provide that.
Having followed the Blues for over 60 years, seen the highs and lows and having read and subscribed to ToffeeWeb and several similar fan sites I think the majority of fans don't crave flashy, instant success.
They want to see the foundations laid for a dynasty, for early moderate gains on the pitch growing incrementally season by season.
Initally they want a team of "triers" that give their all in every game, that are replaced one by one, season by season by more skillfull players, who still also give 100% in every game.
Until ultimately, in the not too distant future, Everton does regain her rightfull place amongst the football elite.
The trick now, is to find the manager that is going to be able to achieve that.
Saddly, I am not at all sure that, of all the names mentioned thus far, that manager is amongst them.
So, I shall, once again, have to wait and see, what the Everton "powers that be" deliver, and hope that, whover it is, fulfills the need.
856 Posted 05/06/2021 at 09:14:45
That's my assumption. Or I should probably say hope?
But this is Everton. Only we could be the ones to drag that out only to announce the most underwhelming appointment. It could however get worse and we get Moyes.
Surprise me Everton. You always tend to, but please make this a pleasant surprise.
857 Posted 05/06/2021 at 09:36:18
An imported latino or Mediterranean coach will almost certainly be off to Spain or Italy at the first approach (hola Carlo) with Dunc I very much doubt that would happen.
I have no idea whether he can deliver but we can only go on evidence and his brief stint in charge was great so leave him alone or I'll drive him to your house and laugh as he gives you a good shoeing 😆😆😆
858 Posted 05/06/2021 at 09:42:42
I love Dunc. I would love him to stay at the club in some capacity, just not as manager. And if the new manager decides he doesn't want him on his coaching staff, then he has a decision to make.
Taking the Everton out of it, I'd like to see him go and coach / manage a team in his own right. Just not Everton. Not now.
859 Posted 05/06/2021 at 09:43:23
Having said that, after the shambles of the last five years I am forming the opinion that we would be better off with someone in the Moyes mould. Chris Wilder maybe.
One thing is for sure I dont want another Hollywood manager I have learned my lesson.
860 Posted 05/06/2021 at 09:55:18
When will people get over him? When he retires? When he kicks the bucket? Hes moved on, we should move on. Hes gone, hes never coming back. Lets look forwards, not backwards. We are weighed down by our history. The past is the past.
861 Posted 05/06/2021 at 10:02:11
862 Posted 05/06/2021 at 10:05:05
863 Posted 05/06/2021 at 10:12:28
They also sacked Rodgers, who okay didn't have a great start to the season, but had just nearly won them title and has gone on to prove himself elsewhere. They did so because they knew Klopp was available and willing. Ruthless and ambitious. No sentiment or throw backs to tales of the boot room and nostalgia.
Meanwhile, we talk emotional appointments of ex-players because they're passionate and former managers who won nothing.
Right, like Colin, I too promise not to mention that one again!!
I don't like rumours, but the paranoia is starting to get to me. Can we at least have one credible one to give me hope or put me out of my misery?!!!
864 Posted 05/06/2021 at 10:27:44
Never again give Moyes the job, going back NEVER works out well. Any other suggestions welcomed but neither of these. Here endeth the lesson
865 Posted 05/06/2021 at 11:00:36
He wasn't even being "cool", he was just holding his drink!
Rob -I believe your story 100%. I had a contact near the club, an explayer in the media. I couldn't say too much at the time(of Martinez) without giving away my source. That's the trouble with football though, they are now in a different social sphere, you don't meet them so much down the pub. Info is scarce, and all we get is journo speculation.
A close friend has ghost written a few autobiographies with a few people. My mate went to the training ground when Moyes was in charge the players were very tight-lipped on anything other than the most mundane "he's a great lad" comments. Nobody wants to shit on their doorstep and as many of them see a coaching/media job in the distance, they certainly take care what they say.
Today most of them cover their mouths when chatting on camera.
866 Posted 05/06/2021 at 11:18:04
The problem is that no one knows how any manager will fare at any particular club. He has to connect to a couple of dozen players whose abilities he may or may not respect and whose personalities may not be his cup of tea. He may want to implement a style of play which the current playing staff find difficult to produce( highly likely in this case). He has to settle into a new area and may have kids who need to move schools away from their mates. What has worked for them at previous clubs may not work at Everton. If he doesnt hit the ground running he will get severe criticism from fans who wanted someone else- will he be strong enough to rise above this or will he throw in the towel like Ancelotti did, or buckle under the pressure.
We need a manager who understands us. We were a massive club but sadly were not now. The ambition is there, the owner has money but we will not crack the top 6 by buying players on huge salaries who have had their best years or who have not been quite good enough at bigger clubs. We need to build a young, vibrant, aggressive team with some good, more experienced pros to provide a spine.
I dont see how the likes of Pirlo can do this job. Hes probably never heard of us, has no great knowledge of the English game and would struggle with a squad who cant pass the ball with any accuracy over more than a couple of feet. Nuno as others have said shows signs of being another Silva, Conte would be off elsewhere just like Ancelotti as soon as a bigger club showed interest. I think Moyes would do a decent enough job but is he hungry enough?
I wonder about a combo of Wenger/ Viera or take a gamble on Potter being the next young English manager to come good. Dyche would shake them all up as he wouldnt stand for the lack of fight in this squad. Benitez is too old, Gerrard is an abhorrent suggestion which makes me vomit, Rogers wouldnt leave Leicester for us and may well end up at Spurs anyway,Howe is very suspect defensively and Simione would be in the same category as Conte. Dean Smith does a good job at Villa but why leave them for us?
I watched Howards Way last night and marvelled at the passion that Gray,Sharp,Sheedy,Heath and PatvdH still have for our club not to mention Colin Harvey. That is what we need from our new manager and it is what Ferguson would give us in spades. Ok, he has no real experience but what if he was paired with an old hand similar to the Mercer/Allison partnership in the late sixties. Would Wenger be suitable to work with him- he knows Moshiri of course. Someone like Hodgson would be an experienced partner for Duncan or even Redknapp.
Im really struggling and dont have any knowledge of foreign coaches to speculate on them. Its got to be a Brit,or a pair of them for me.
867 Posted 05/06/2021 at 11:44:55
868 Posted 05/06/2021 at 11:53:35
The difference is he had passion and was a winner. Duncan only has one of those.
Don't agree with your British point. Simply not enough who are actually good enough right now in my view.
869 Posted 05/06/2021 at 12:25:43
Youd have loved Harvey as a player- fight, effort and the most skilful I have ever seen, even better in that regard than King Alan!
870 Posted 05/06/2021 at 12:29:04
871 Posted 05/06/2021 at 12:35:04
On one hand, glad there is nothing coming out of the club as it means they're giving it serious consideration and thought.
On the other, will you please tell me what's going on as the wife is not overly impressed with how much time I'm spending on the Internet and even the dogs are tiring of my endless Everton ramblings now!
My dad couldn't see past Alex Young or Alan Ball, but he did always reflect fondly on Colin Harvey.
I bore my son with tales of Kevin Sheedy and Paul BracewelI. I wish we'd got more out of him. Talking of Howard's Way, that instant diagonal pass out to Trevor Steven on the turn against Sunderland. Wow.
872 Posted 05/06/2021 at 12:37:14
Someone above - Andy Duff? - talked about us needing to rediscover our identity as a football club. I think that hits the nail right on the head. At the moment we are like a dogs breakfast on and off the field.
Whoever gets the job has a monumental task on his hands getting that dressing room sorted out. It isnt going to happen in the course of one season in my opinion.
As always I live in hope that this time we get it right.
873 Posted 05/06/2021 at 13:07:32
Time to cut clean and get an identity and belief with the new manager.
Ralph R, for me but some one will be akin to the Catt, make and take tough descision but who believes in playing football.
A big ask!
874 Posted 05/06/2021 at 15:05:22
875 Posted 05/06/2021 at 15:09:35
Big yawn from me!
876 Posted 05/06/2021 at 15:28:36
Nonetheless, I am happy he has gone now rather than make us endure another season of awful football. I am thankfull for the away wins, esp at our old ground but any kudos the club might have gleaned from his appointment, the subsequent departure has left us looking like mugs.
However the players have shown that they really are just a mid-table squad, and the majority of them have failed to perform for several coaches, which says it all.
877 Posted 05/06/2021 at 16:08:41
So my fellow Blues...what's the link?.
Therein lies the ANSWER folks...the beautiful game is the same wherever it's played!.
878 Posted 05/06/2021 at 16:45:44
Hes proabably better than them even being retired for some time.
But for me hes still to learn his craft, and being a great player rarely guarantees being a great football manager.
881 Posted 05/06/2021 at 21:29:00
882 Posted 05/06/2021 at 21:52:40
That should go for any manager who comes in but Duncan would need that more than most.
883 Posted 05/06/2021 at 21:55:04
884 Posted 05/06/2021 at 22:50:16
885 Posted 05/06/2021 at 22:55:01
886 Posted 05/06/2021 at 23:12:50
887 Posted 05/06/2021 at 23:23:26
Sorry, can't get the link working but it's on the Gossip pages...
888 Posted 05/06/2021 at 23:29:45
To be blunt, that's not a manager who wants to play a possession based game, keep ball or play out from the back. We don't have the players to do it successfully as has been proven by several managers.
If we can lure in a few top class players into defence, midfield and forward positions then we have a greater selection of managers to choose.
Brands, go get some players signed ASAP!
889 Posted 06/06/2021 at 00:15:21
They are all Champions...were a shambles!.
Btw...If it weren't for the Welsh footy,this season would've been a total write off for me!.
890 Posted 06/06/2021 at 00:36:28
Boring bastards that just produce boring football.
I've read that the footy agent with the really sad name has Moshiri's ear when it comes to selecting the new Gaffer...sigh.
Maybe the unthinkable is the only way out of this fucking mess!.
891 Posted 06/06/2021 at 00:41:34
I saw that and I dont believe it TBH
892 Posted 06/06/2021 at 02:12:46
That's a stunner.
What's even more stunning is... I agree with him.
894 Posted 06/06/2021 at 09:14:59
I very quickly scrolled past it. If I can't see it, it's not real.
895 Posted 06/06/2021 at 09:50:46
896 Posted 06/06/2021 at 10:18:53
We all have our own different views and yes,as a player he could have given much more on occasions than he did but he was a bit wild in his younger days ( werent we all) and has presumably grown up since.
There are some big advantages in giving him a try. He knows the players, he knows the ones who cant really be bothered so he wont need to waste time getting to know them. He knows what we need in terms of new players. He knows the young players who are coming through and will more than likely trust them a lot more than Ancelotti ever did.
He knows the club, he connects with the supporters and he knows what we expect from our team. He knows the PL, he will demand effort and fight from his players and as he showed in his spell in charge he wont tolerate anyone who fails to carry out his instructions. He wont cost us a fortune in salary or in compo if he tries and fails. He wont jump ship for a better offer as he is where he wants to be.
Basically he stands as much chance as anyone else mentioned as a candidate because no one knows how the new guy,whoever he is,will get on.Management is such a lottery and a lot of aspects have to fall into place for success to follow.
As the 800 plus posts on this thread indicate, there is no outstanding candidate and the depressing thing is that they have all been sacked for not doing their job well enough elsewhere apart from Potter who is the only “ up and coming” name amongst them all.
On balance I would go for Duncan as he stands more chance than most of making it work. Put a good team around him, a decent assistant( which he didnt have as caretaker) and give him a whirl- there is every chance that it could work.
897 Posted 06/06/2021 at 10:39:29
898 Posted 06/06/2021 at 10:45:08
In general I don't like the philosophy, it's too risky and even man city, man utd, l'pool etc. come unstuck when defenders try and play out slowly from the back.
Get the ball forward quicker, get players with more pace, stamina, movement and ability. In this regards Dunc could do a decent job, but so could Moyes, Rafa, Pir lo, Conte etc.
We need better players, we need a manager that can motivate and get the best out of players without playing risky, defensively nieve football. It's very much substance over style without wanting a Sam or Dyche long ball merchant. Unfortunately Dunc could also be classed as similar going off his brief stint.
Whoever the next manager is, Brands bringing in top class players is more important. Another 'interesting' summer ahead.
899 Posted 06/06/2021 at 11:41:43
I don't think many have slated Duncan here. Like just about every Evertonian, I love the guy and his passion for Everton.
What some have done is question his credentials to be the manager. Just as many have been doing so over many suggested candidates.
I also don't like the live in this city thing. Again, apologies, but that suggests that those who do have some kind of superior entitlement over those who don't. Suggesting they are better Evertonians.
I was born in Liverpool. I lived in Liverpool both as a child and adult, interspersed with periods living elsewhere. My sons first school was in Liverpool. We are massive Evertonians who are still very much in touch with our family in Livepool. Yet through profession and life, don't live in Liverpool and haven't done in years. When I go to a home match, it costs me around £250 all in; for one match. But I do it, much to my wife's scorning
And regardless of how people connect and belong to Everton, regardless of whether they are fortunate enough to get to Goodison or have to watch from their arm chair, they are as big an Evertonian as me or anyone on here. Regardless of where they come from and regardless of whether they have Liverpool roots or not.
I'm deeply passionate about my roots and my football club, but to suggest you have to live in the city to be in touch? We will have to disagree on that.
This is not directed personally, but thats the type of small club, small city insular thinking that has got Everton to where they are and seen Liverpool (city) outflanked by Manchester.
Apologies. No offence intended, but that just rattled me.
I'm currently seeing decent priced flights to Tampa for next month. £541 return. I'm going to be in so much trouble as I'm out this afternoon and probably do it later!!
900 Posted 06/06/2021 at 13:39:09
901 Posted 06/06/2021 at 13:40:51
I agree with a lot of what she says and what makes me howl is this is just a British Snobbery thing.
Big Dunc was a thug blah blah. Rooney was a mouthy scruff blah blah but suprise suprise at the same time Big Dunc name springs up, there are calls for bar fighter Gerrard. The 2 footed flier that has never done wrong.
More narrative nobhead nonsense (i love my new phrase👌)
Rooney and Ferguson scumbags so they could never manage Everton but working class heroes like Gerrard and spit at fans - if you can't find a coin to throw - Carragher get to have lovely privledged roles in football.
Mary Coleman simplified what is wrong these days. Heads up arses and out of touch.
902 Posted 06/06/2021 at 13:48:29
I see Villa have agreed a £33m deal with Norwich for their midfielder Buendia. I guess that's them not taking the option up of taking Ross on.
I can see it now if Bill is involved. We can get Duncan or Davey in and bring Ross back.
903 Posted 06/06/2021 at 14:04:20
Mary I would love to see a rat throw a brick, be a bit special that!!!
904 Posted 06/06/2021 at 14:20:54
Yes, they made mistakes in life, but who hasn't? I have. Many of them. Even at 49 I still do!
Interesting to draw those two out as their passion on the field got the better of them more a few times. I get that; some players are like that and you shouldn't take that out of their game, just try to channel and control it.
Duncan's more so. Of the two, and I'm talking about Duncan the player now, he just didn't reach the heights he could have done so with the potential he had. And I appreciate that injury played a part. People like you and I will never really know the behind the scenes truth of that, but I'm sure it played a big part.
I'll probably get smashed for this, but I always sensed there was an element of him being a reluctant footballer. He didn't and doesn't seem to like the spotlight. That contributed to the inconsistency. He never performed all of the time, although in his defence, he mainly played in average Everton teams.
Rooney. So, there's an interesting one. I feel he also didn't get to the level he could have done. Considering he's won just about everything, at face value, that's a ridiculous statement. But there's always been that comparison of the young Ronaldo and young Rooney. Arguably, Rooney the better natural talent. But Ronaldo worked harder whereas Rooney relied on his natural ability. Splitting hairs as they both went on to be world superstars in the game. But Ronaldo played at the highest level for longer, whilst by 32, Rooney was back at Everton with his legs gone, shipped off to the MLS when we realised it and then ended up at Derby.
That's a football assessment of both, not a personal criticism of either individual by the way.
Duncan is a gentleman and great ambassador for Everton Football Club. Wayne has had to live his life in the media spotlight since a very young age.
But just because they're good Evertonians and regardless of where they come from, it doesn't make them the best candidates to be Everton manager. We judge them on their ability to be Everton manager.
Obviously its all about opinions as always and that's the beauty of sites like this where we come to discuss it.
Nothing wrong with your view by the way Mary, I just wanted to counter it. Again, meant in the spirit of debate, not to be confrontational or critical. There are many blues who support this club who don't happen to live in Liverpool and some never have. But they are still Evertonians. Alan Ball wasn't from Liverpool and not a born Evertonian, but his quote is often used to epitomise what it means to support this club.
905 Posted 06/06/2021 at 14:22:20
906 Posted 06/06/2021 at 14:26:16
Southgate has informed the media the team will take the knee tonight.
I hope this gesture stops asap.
907 Posted 06/06/2021 at 14:36:44
908 Posted 06/06/2021 at 14:46:36
The more this is hilighted, the more the idiots will thrive on this, keep it out of the news, let the people deal with the abuse, by tracking them down, fining them, even imprisonment if needed, but the taking the knee is not going to sort those who will not take a blind bit of notice of it.
It was a great idea at the time and the purpose has served its cause, but now is the time to stop the taking the knee.
909 Posted 06/06/2021 at 14:47:18
A very passionate subject for me.
The knee is doing nothing to stop racism. The racists are not bothered in the slightest by the gesture.
Racism has seen black people on thier knees for 400 years.
910 Posted 06/06/2021 at 14:58:04
To me, and I don't care for Narrative or football fairytales that sell, I think if you give the manager the right tools hes got half a chance.
Today that consists of a contract he is happy with. A very good squad to work with, the best coaches and the best sports science team.
Only then do I judge their credentials. I still don't judge Silva as a poor manager. Anyone who rides the Everton managers job in the last 3 or 4 years is trying to restore things that have been lost or forgotten.
They can't sell themselves to the chairman/owner with a great big plan that keeps falling behind due to other factors like not replacing a good level of player.
Once managers are asked to do a job with less quality of equipment its just a drain on them. You'll never get their 100%.
The plan has to be well thought, better thought. I look at Conte's past and present and think maybe hes trying to stay on the wave of success by demanding the best everywhere he goes.
He seems to have no intention of carrying on if he lose's a star name or two and from his point of view, what is the point?
Any hint of the club tightening the belt a bit, he wants out.
Although I don't like hearing Ancelotti's words after his exit I am glad for the honesty. I looked at him in the tunnel coming back out v Man City and he looked truly fed up.
Hes got off knowing to find the level of player that he can work with will take a long time of headaches.
Look at Pep. Needed the 50 mill full backs before he looked like he knew what he was doing. Klopp was short of the goalkeeper and CB they needed..
All in all its down to the clubs ambition. Back Ferguson properly or anyone with similar committment and they should be ok.
On another note what is the difference in Real Madrid having a Director of Football in comparison to us?
They only buy the worlds best so do they need one specifically for improving the squad? Would they stop buying the best without one?
My ideal would be to follow Moshiri's ambition with Everton methods and we will get better.
Theres no doubt we are only geared to be the 7th best side if every club is steady so we shouldn't get so expectant too quickly.
911 Posted 06/06/2021 at 14:59:16
Its seen by many people as being part of a marxist, anti-western, anti-establishment movement. Tearing down statues; being angry at police, being ashamed of our history, blaming big businesses for society woes, etc.
Whether they are right or wrong is unfortunately irrelevant. Many will back them, many will detest them. Its that simple. That makes it DIVISIVE and division should have no place in football.
Wear an armband. Have a minutes silence. Have a minutes applause…….that IS part of football. Surely the marketing brains behind the premier league and FA can come up with something that unites us all against ALL kinds of racism, without the divisive baggage this causes.
912 Posted 06/06/2021 at 15:00:04
913 Posted 06/06/2021 at 15:02:30
A thread on summer signings is a great idea. Brands had better have something better than Buendia at £33m, a good deal for Villa if they can keep Grealish and Wadkins (?) they will be tough next season. Going to be an even harder league
914 Posted 06/06/2021 at 15:04:45
I honestly don't think Duncan is interested at working at any other club.
Not for me as manager at this stage of his career.
915 Posted 06/06/2021 at 15:08:30
The tools, the equipment. Regardless of the manager, we need better players.
Hypothetically, if Pep or Klopp came in tomorrow they would want better players. They would identify the ones they can keep and get more out of, but they would bring in better players. As both to those two did to achieve success at their current and previous clubs.
I'm a self-confessed romanticist but we need to keep thinking big. Eventually it will come off.
916 Posted 06/06/2021 at 15:09:59
So much is wrong with our world and people from above, there is as much child abuse and vulnerable children being taken advantaged of, there are women living in fear of abusive relationships, there are lgbtqia who are verbally attacked, there are people who are targeted for their race/colour, but we seem to focus on taking the knee for racial abuse, if we are going to take some kind of action, then let us do it for all of the above.
Cut out the taking the knee, wear T-shirts during the warmups, even an armband with a message on if needed.
917 Posted 06/06/2021 at 15:17:36
I never read about any of the groups you mention being stopped getting on a bus or not allowed to drink out of a white mans fountain because of the colour of thier skin.
918 Posted 06/06/2021 at 15:19:26
Gary #911, it isn't the gesture that's divisive, it's the issue. And the players taking the knee have every right not to knuckle under to people who think it's "a marxist, anti-western, anti-establishment movement" and want to intimidate them into stopping. Pulling down statues of traitors and slaveowners, which is what US Confederates were, has absolutely nothing to do with trying to tear down society. Bigotry is a rampant, raging issue that needs to be confronted in every way possible. And if that pisses off the racists, I think that's great. I'd bet my mortgage you've never been confronted with bigotry, or even talked with anybody who has (like my wife and I). If you had, you'd quickly realize you're wrong that anti-racism would be "almost universally supported" -- on the contrary, a large segment of our society is openly bigoted, proud of its bigotry and promotes a racist agenda at every opportunity. Taking the knee is one small way to show that it will no longer be accepted in silence. And if such a tiny gesture outrages the bigots, I say bravo.
919 Posted 06/06/2021 at 15:22:50
The job of the FA and Premier League is to administer football. I don't go to and watch football matches to be told what to think, believe or feel guilty about.
920 Posted 06/06/2021 at 15:30:42
921 Posted 06/06/2021 at 15:32:47
Nobody's telling you anything. They're kneeling to express themselves, which they have every right to do. You have every right not to watch... turn your back, close your eyes, boo, stay home, whatever. You don't have the right to tell them what they can and cannot do in their workplace because it displeases you.
And good luck telling the FA and the PL what their job is.
922 Posted 06/06/2021 at 15:32:50
923 Posted 06/06/2021 at 15:33:42
Whilst you clearly love your keyboard warrior life, this will be my last post on it. If you cant see a simple truth that its dividing, just wait and watch what happens when the full stadiums come back.
924 Posted 06/06/2021 at 15:38:17
925 Posted 06/06/2021 at 15:38:33
I have black family members who are subjected to it.
Same as the atrocities ALL races have been subjected to it should be highlighted.
Would you agree with that Mike?
926 Posted 06/06/2021 at 15:38:37
927 Posted 06/06/2021 at 15:39:44
An "Engine for change". Good God. It was never anything of the sort for the greater part of its existence. There have been huge moves to make it such - it hasn't just happened by natural organic development.
If white players knelt to express themselves as proud of being white, what do you think would happen?
I'd rather we just all try to be humans and not continually keep highlighting the differences.
928 Posted 06/06/2021 at 15:39:58
If you can't handle my views -- and obviously you can't -- then by all means, throw your insults and run away too. You'll fit right in. See ya.
929 Posted 06/06/2021 at 15:40:17
930 Posted 06/06/2021 at 15:41:50
Great. Am I not allowed to do similar?
931 Posted 06/06/2021 at 15:43:20
932 Posted 06/06/2021 at 15:44:55
933 Posted 06/06/2021 at 15:45:31
Last time I checked we were. democracy.
934 Posted 06/06/2021 at 15:46:48
935 Posted 06/06/2021 at 15:48:59
936 Posted 06/06/2021 at 15:53:14
Make the racists feel uncomfortable and pissed off and left out for once. Rather than bowing to them to not 'upset the boat' and not 'cause a scene'.
People who are victims of racism (and yes, homophobia, sexism, etc) are blamed for 'causing a scene' when they confront those that doing the racism, sexism, homophobia etc. It's time the tables are turned.
And a constant reminder that Racism will not be accepted, all the time, every game, is a very small and easy gesture to make the statement.
The ide athat 'it doesn't change' anything is along the thinking that this type of.change can happen quickly. And it can't. We've been a racist country for centuries, and it won't change overnight.
937 Posted 06/06/2021 at 15:53:45
“conservative cowards who sling insults”.
The hypocrisy is genuinely mind boggling. So far youve called anyone who dares disagree with you, and this movement, a ‘coward a ‘bigot and a ‘conservative (fortunately with a small c I guess).
So, because you are NOT a conservative, its ok for you to ‘sling insults. One rule for you, and another for anyone who disagrees with you? Forget judging people equally on actions its simply whether you “think like I tell you you should”……or do what I tell you to: bend the knee.
Its not running away that Im doing little fella, its just acknowledging that no matter what I say, you, and other hard core pro-antifa people like you are just as bigoted as the scum on the right. You are not capabale of reason, nor any views other than your own.
938 Posted 06/06/2021 at 15:53:51
You seemed annoyed.
939 Posted 06/06/2021 at 15:53:53
It's up to the players to choose for themselves how they express their views and fans can do the same.
940 Posted 06/06/2021 at 15:54:17
Anyone who boos is a racist as far as I am concerned and unfortunately there are lots of them in this country, it's probably the main reason we are no longer in the EU. Even our newspapers are racist, let alone the government.Look at the racism aimed at Marcus Rashford from his own fans after the Europa League final. This is why it is important for players to take the knee and for us to support them doing it so we can stop these nasty individuals and make them realise what they are doing is very wrong.
941 Posted 06/06/2021 at 15:55:27
yes, so far we're not being linked with many. I guess it could be said that if we had a full DOF situation, where he handled all transfer activity, the lack of a manager would not be holding things up. Recent history shows us as less than dynamic in the market. We also have no accurate idea of just how much transfer money is available; our financial situation says, not a huge amount.
Maybe we'll be surprised.
942 Posted 06/06/2021 at 15:55:29
The "knee" is well passed it's sell by date the time to stop it was long ago.
943 Posted 06/06/2021 at 15:59:17
944 Posted 06/06/2021 at 16:02:31
Equally, it is the right of fans to boo when players kneel. It doesn't make them racist. Just a bit simple.
945 Posted 06/06/2021 at 16:02:42
And a bunch of people booed.
What would that represent, if not being actively against the representation of that minutes silence?
Would we then go 'tell you what, Fran doesn't much like the minutes silence for war heroes, so best not hey'?
A knee against racism...that is all it symbolises.
Marxism? Jesus Christ. Classical way to.respond keep.the status quo, call anything that rocks it as marxist. According to these racists, Marxists rule the world, rule Hollywood z rule everything. bizarre innit. Cause the last time I saw a Marxist meeting, there were about 5 grey haired blokes and a dog.
946 Posted 06/06/2021 at 16:03:57
947 Posted 06/06/2021 at 16:04:39
Paul #935, I did not say booing makes you racist. On the contrary, in my response to Will, I endorsed the right to boo. It's free speech. However, the racist abuse that has accompanied the booing at some grounds is not defensible free speech in my opinion.
Thomas #938, you expressed considerable annoyance yourself. I was just wondering why.
948 Posted 06/06/2021 at 16:04:51
It's not your views Mike it's the way you sometimes express them. You occasionally come across as something of a 'know it all bully boy' which I'm sure you're not.
I'm not sure players kneel to express themselves, some do, some don't. An educated guess tells me that a lot would be scared to go against what they perceive as the consensus. Les Ferdinand and Wilf Zaha don't do it and think it takes the emphasis off better ways to fight racism.
I share Gary's view. It is divisive and I think you'll see a sea change when the fans come back.
And Mike, cut out this "see ya" crap and have a cold beer.
949 Posted 06/06/2021 at 16:04:53
My point in a nutshell.
The knee is not stopping any form of racism.
It has no affect on the racists.
If you are poisoned with racism your poisoned mind wont be changed by footballers kneeling.
950 Posted 06/06/2021 at 16:07:58
951 Posted 06/06/2021 at 16:10:46
Where did I express that Mike?
952 Posted 06/06/2021 at 16:15:56
It is a futile gesture that means nothing to the people in my family who the gesture is supposed to support.
Black people have been treated as second class citizens by many people for hundreds of years.
Sportsmen and women kneeling for 10 seconds wont stop that.
953 Posted 06/06/2021 at 16:18:51
954 Posted 06/06/2021 at 16:19:22
Thomas #949/952, thus my question as to why what you consider a pointless gesture inspires such strong feelings in you ("A very passionate subject for me"). Do you consider it harmful in some way? Insulting to you personally, or to your family members? It clearly isn't pointless to the players who do it, but are they doing some sort of harm by expressing themselves?
955 Posted 06/06/2021 at 16:25:02
Do you know of any racist whose opinion has changed because footballers kneeled?
How many of the footballers kneeling do you consider may be racist themselves?
956 Posted 06/06/2021 at 16:30:52
The players can use other arenas to show up racism for what it is, a destructive force that separates people based on some irrational view that one group is superior/inferior to another based on a random outcome of birth.
Players can visit schools, colleges, and other places where youngsters congregate and the players can pass on the reasons why the hateful practice of racism is such a destructive force on society as a whole. Older groups are probably beyond reach in any attempt to 're-educate' them and alter their possibly life-long views.
As for the knee, because of the significant proportion of fans who have shown their disdain for the practice, removal of it now could seem to some as a victory to those who might have racist tendencies.
Personally, there are already too many unnecessary pre-match rituals for my taste, that's not to belittle those taking the knee, but I do think it's time for football to come up with a better way of transmitting its abhorrence to racism, and not to inadvertently give the 'racists' a platform to air their poisoned views whenever the 'taking of the knee' is discussed.
If any of us witness racism, we should call it out for what it is, a cowardly act that has no place in our society, we don't need footballers physically demonstrating that fact, it should be a shared view of all of us without the need to be prompted by others.
957 Posted 06/06/2021 at 16:32:17
Nothing seems to have changed, and the fact that some high profile black players (Zaha springs to mind) have decided not to is IMHO them attempting to show their disgust (not at the taking of the knee) but at the fact that nothing has changed.
Not taking the knee is actually focusing more people's attention on taking the knee itself.
I can understand some saying it's no longer required, it hasn't done anything etc etc, but if people just stop then discrimination continues.
Just look at how many black players have been abused online after they've lost an important game.
What the holy fuck is that all about?
And it's probably done by so called supporters of teams that have a multi race line up themselves.
Some people you will just never be able to educate.
958 Posted 06/06/2021 at 16:34:52
And many years before that I played cricket in Liverpool with a West Indian (last heard of in Germany 2008) and a few night clubs where he was well known we, or more accurately he, were turned away because there were people already in who would cause trouble if they let him in. When asked why then they were let in was usually just met with a shrug of the shoulders while the door was then shut.
I've heard about the "Promised Land", just not found it yet.
959 Posted 06/06/2021 at 16:43:04
960 Posted 06/06/2021 at 16:48:39
The only hope that racism will lessen is to educate the young people. They are the key.
Good points in your post at 957.
It is an ongoing problem mate, whilst they are allowed to get away with it, it will continue.
I have been out socially with mates who have had the same treatment as your pal. And all because thier skin was a different colour.
Few times the lads wanted to take it a step further but were always discouraged by the lad getting abuse.
"Leave it, lets just go somewhere else"
961 Posted 06/06/2021 at 16:52:54
You should ask a football player.
962 Posted 06/06/2021 at 16:52:59
Anyway, it seems that, whatever the views on taking the knee, I don't see anybody on here expressing support for racism. That's good.
963 Posted 06/06/2021 at 16:53:09
Somehow when I clicked up, it went to about post #700 and I can't be bothered with the next 250+
But I find it interesting that there are posts saying "thank goodness Moyes has signed a 3 year deal at West Ham" - in other words he is not coming back
But then also saying we need a team of battlers and players full of character and who would die for the shirt. Maybe your memories are clearer than mine but what the teams from 2006 to 2013 lacked in quality they more than made up for in terms of character and passion for the club. But there is absolutely no way we would ever want the manager who recruited those players or instilled that character and passion to come back.
It that a paradox?
964 Posted 06/06/2021 at 16:53:29
I'm old enough to remember the worldwide earthquake caused by the gloved-fist demonstrations of Tommie Smith and John Carlos in the 1968 Olympics. That changed nothing at the time, or in the immediate years to follow, but 50 years on it is viewed as a seminal moment in racial awareness. And that impact, however delayed, was due largely to the venue -- an international sporting stage.
I would also disagree that older folks are too set in their ways to alter their racial views. I have personally experienced otherwise.
965 Posted 06/06/2021 at 16:58:03
966 Posted 06/06/2021 at 16:58:14
But connections like mine aren't necessary. Many athletes are directly reachable online and will respond to thoughtful questions.
967 Posted 06/06/2021 at 17:06:25
Usually gets the message across.
968 Posted 06/06/2021 at 17:12:58
Bigotry exists, and will always exist….hopefully though in ever decreasing numbers.
However, since the early 90s ‘John Barnes bananas society in the UK has taken massive strides on racism! Ive worked all round the Uk (granted, mostly in office environment) and I just dont believe it exists in any great number, and certainly not in the open or institutionalised in any way. Quite the opposite.
Where it does exist, those people arent going to stop by some sports players bowing down to the media driven frenzy. You think it “pisses them off”, whereas I think they find it nothing other than peculiar. Some will even be incentivised by it, and will see it as if the division offers them opportunity.
Also, as I said on my first post on this subject: BLM ISNT just about anti-racism. The fact YOU were attacking “conservatives” within your 3rd post is telling of the real political motivation behind it. Like it or loath it, in your country or mine, conservatives (small c!) represent about 50% of the voters (simplified to save debate). They arent going to support it, and they ARE NOT racists or bigots because they dont.
So, why not just come up with something new and unique to football? A symbol, an armband, a hug, whatever and we all get behind it? One where all racism, all violence and all oppression is stood against, and that all political groups can get behind?
Either that, or just keep all politics out of football…..and go back to the “kick it out” campaign that managed to turn a world that sport that threw bananas into the all inclusive business it already is today.
969 Posted 06/06/2021 at 17:29:46
If a person was to say I don't think black managers make good managers but I think black people are the best 100 metre sprinters, what does that make them?
Its a very complicated subject and there are comments made that 2 people of black race will disagree on.
I believe people should only be judged on personality because that is what you face when you engage with someone.
Best thing for me is to give everyone a chance until they don't deserve it and treat everyone the same.
Kneeling down in a group where it feels forced wouldn't give me any substance to say changes are positive.
Lets face it, anyone who stays stood up, his reputation would be destroyed even if he had legitimate reasons and stood for the cause in a different way.
970 Posted 06/06/2021 at 17:30:09
He built a scouting system, brought in a fitness team from the States, even brought in a team of geeks to do statistical analysis. Did it all by himself. If that's true, and it is, how are we now, years-in, throwing money everywhere with a whole upper-management team in place and getting nowhere since he left?
It's Moyes' organizational abilities wanted, just not him. If that makes sense.
971 Posted 06/06/2021 at 17:38:51
972 Posted 06/06/2021 at 17:43:53
This is a sky thing aswell by the way lets not forget they love highlighting it to paint themselves in another light and keep their customer base up.
Anything highlighted in football usually only benefits the media companies. Before you know it, people are talking about it with no feelings.
Like 9/11 to anyone that didn't lose a family member or friend. First off you are devastated for those who suffer until its played so often you just talk about it as a story.
973 Posted 06/06/2021 at 18:28:56
"Maybe your memories are clearer than mine but what the teams from 2006 to 2013 lacked in quality they more than made up for in terms of character and passion for the club"
Not so much memories being clearer more totally different.
My memories of Moyes teams were on the whole a group of predictable, characterless,surrender monkeys who cravenly collapsed at almost any challenge hence never challenging for a bean in a decade.
The Wigan stuffing in the qtr final at Goodison of all places wasn't even a surprise more a summation of the Moyes decade.
Re Moyes, as every year passes it seems the reality of his tenure becomes supplanted by fantasy
974 Posted 06/06/2021 at 18:51:40
Barry, this one is in the Top Ten Unmentionable Games list. Shame on you.
975 Posted 06/06/2021 at 18:58:06
976 Posted 06/06/2021 at 19:38:28
Thinking through managers we have suffered through the years since Joe Royle 'took a hike', I confess the Scot is the only one I could think of re-appointing even if only the best of a bad lot !
977 Posted 06/06/2021 at 19:48:00
Terzic is not getting the Dortmund job permanently. He's 38 and speaks excellent English apparently, having been on the coaching staff at West Ham with Bilic. Looks like Spurs and Palace very interested. Could obviously be a flash in the pan.
Any thoughts from the German residents and Bundesliga followers?
978 Posted 06/06/2021 at 20:05:49
979 Posted 06/06/2021 at 20:06:37
Playing negative, within your comfort zone, shite, isn't 'character' even if it sometimes keeps the score down and improves your goals against column over the course of a season.
980 Posted 06/06/2021 at 20:20:15
981 Posted 06/06/2021 at 20:25:00
982 Posted 06/06/2021 at 20:46:46
BK - No.
Do you wonder why ?
BK - No ?
There's the problem of having you as Everton Chairman. Comprende ?
983 Posted 06/06/2021 at 22:48:21
Everyone who bothers to look at my ramblings knows my admiration of the German game and their coaching. Repetition time; their coaches know how to combine managing big names with developing youth, have tactical nous and can generate passion.
We (I) mentioned Rangnick, but that could be problematic because of his seniority; I've commented my opinion on that one enough.
With the recent German managerial merry-go-round that has happened recently, I'd have looked at Marco Rose, who was the Monchengladbach coach. But he is going to take over Dortmund funnily enough, which may free up Terzic.
This guy is a young up and coming coach who has just won the German equivalent of the FA Cup with one of the biggest clubs in European football. He was Klopp's "Unsworth" at Dortmund, coaching the academy and also, has worked in the Premier League with West Ham under Bilic if I recall? That's the other interesting dynamic to him; German but of Croatian origin, another country that churns out quality footballers regularly so to have access to both those markets would great.
I'll say again, what a great call. Robert, can you give Marcel Brands an advisory call tomorrow? I like that one.
We'd have to teach him not to sing that song that should never be mentioned on sites like this though.
984 Posted 07/06/2021 at 00:24:40
I'm surprised that you say he's not getting the job full-time... last news item I saw (and I haven't checked today) was that he turned down Eintracht to stay at Dortmund. I'd read somewhere previously that Haaland likes Terzic so much he might stay one more season rather than fly off to Madrid or Manchester.
If that's true, Terzic won't be moving anywhere.
985 Posted 07/06/2021 at 03:23:52
986 Posted 07/06/2021 at 04:09:29
I know you're kidding, but that's exactly how I first truly learned about white privilege and institutionalized racism 25 years ago. I captained a team whose star striker was an immigrant from Sudan. He was a highly-paid cargo supervisor at Oakland Airport, working nights, and was regularly pulled over in his new Mercedes going home at 4am for DWB (Driving While Black) by cops who found his car incompatible with his color. The night before our promotion final, two of them decided he'd stolen the car. Without even checking the license and registration, they yanked him out and beat the shit out of him. He showed up for the game with a broken wrist, a swollen face and stitches in his scalp.
I had reached my late 30's without ever having had a conversation like that with a black man. I'd been in a clueless bubble. That day opened my eyes. They've been steadily opened wider ever since.
987 Posted 07/06/2021 at 06:47:10
988 Posted 07/06/2021 at 07:25:15
989 Posted 07/06/2021 at 08:52:32
990 Posted 07/06/2021 at 16:20:45
That being the case, Terzic would be a fascinating possibility for us. He's only 38 or so but his gifts are obvious.
991 Posted 07/06/2021 at 16:59:42
992 Posted 07/06/2021 at 17:20:06
Brands steps up a level. We bring in Rangnick with Terzic working under him. Rangnick has just done that with the 33 year old Nagelmanns at Leipzig, who has just been appointed Bayern coach. It would would need a management restructuring, but if we have ambition, that's worth thinking about if there is even a sniff of it being on the cards.
I appreciate that's me stuck in my Danny-land. I'll wake up at 3am again this morning and realise nothing has happened and we're probably going to appoint Duncan Ferguson next week after weeks of deliberation.
993 Posted 07/06/2021 at 17:28:38
David Moyes and the like have dragged this club down to their lowest ever standing in football terms - any return should not be countenanced - we should be aiming for much higher than his journeyman standard of management and coaching
994 Posted 07/06/2021 at 17:36:10
I don't want him back, but neither will I slander him, because he built a far better team than the one we have today and with no funds. If he'd had the kind of money made available to him as the last few managers had, one wonders what he might have achieved. However, as I said, never go back.
995 Posted 07/06/2021 at 17:58:21
We were in the top 6 in five of the eleven seasons that Moyes was here. Moyes should have been sacked after we finished 17th in 2003-04. I don't think that made us a top 6 side under his management. His record at other clubs apart from last season at West Ham is poor.
Gordon Lee's team finished in the top 4 in two of his four seasons (3rd in 77-78) at Everton before being rightly sacked In 1980. I'm not purporting Gordon Lee as a Everton great but I know which team I preferred watching. I don't understand the veneration that some Evertonians hold David Moyes in, it's baffling to me.
996 Posted 07/06/2021 at 18:05:57
As I stated a few days ago, the lot across the Park sacked Houllier, he won 5 shiny trophies in approx 5 years. That does put Moyes 11 years of no wins at Anfield, FA Cup Semi surrender v Liverpool and losing the FA QF v Wigan into perspective.
997 Posted 07/06/2021 at 18:11:18
The fans who booed might feel that racism is over-played, that taking the knee is a pointless exercise or driven by views that they disagree with. But to jeer the England and Romanian players for freely expressing their opposition to racism was entirely shameful. These players are different races and play for our clubs, they are often trolled and racially abused on social media and, like Mike Gaynes and his wife, will have suffered racist episodes in their own lives.
The reaction from certain segments of fans will undoubtedly ensure that players continue to take the knee, as they will not take a back down when confronted with such a response. More power to them.
998 Posted 07/06/2021 at 18:15:07
We can't have another manager, unfamiliar with the situation here, take six months assessing the squad, giving everyone a chance to prove themselves (again), only to reach the conclusion that we the supporters already know, namely that we have a severely dsyfunctional midfield.
Incoming transfers to inject dynamism, pace and mobility can't wait another transfer window. Incoming transfers are as important as the choice of the new manager, in my opinion.
999 Posted 07/06/2021 at 18:52:35
1000 Posted 07/06/2021 at 18:55:51
The Gordon Lee reference is good. His top 4 finishes in the context of what that meant at the time in terms of European competition where arguably equivalent of finishing top 7 now would you say? So at the time, not good enough.
I don't want to talk about Moyes, but yet again we're back here. Move forward.
But, as we are here and for what it's worth, my take has always been the same. Came in and done what was necessary at the time. Grateful for the job he done at the time and he done it well.
Couldn't take us further and I started getting concerns with that. He first properly lost me with the semi final. I was fuming and arguing (on my own) with London reds that day who were trying to take this piss out of me.We lost to the most average Liverpool team in my lifetime because we didn't have the bottle to keep doing what we had been doing in the first half. The difference being they didn't know how to have a constructive football argument. And then the Wigan capitulation. That was it for me with Moyes.
Once there was or is expectation, he is the master of playing it down to keep us fans in check.
Anyway, about Terzic. Given I will wake up in the middle of the night thinking about Everton's next manager, I might get the Rosary Beads out. I like that one now Robert Tresses has planted the seed and Mike Gaynes has given his blessing!!
1001 Posted 07/06/2021 at 18:59:28
1002 Posted 07/06/2021 at 19:04:53
I wholeheartedly endorse everything you posted. The biggest condemnation of Moyes is that he turned Nil satis nisi optimum into
Mediocris est gratum and for that I will never forgive him. Along with 7-0 at Highbury, 6-1 at home to Arsenal, 5-0 in Bucharest, not even a sniff of a trophy in 11 years, 'knife to a gun fight', etc etc etc.
So please no more Moyes back to Goodison posts.
1003 Posted 07/06/2021 at 19:06:41
Everton is one of the hardest clubs to manage because players are on fabulous contracts and not worried if they are not picked, but will stay at the club until their contracts run out.
1004 Posted 07/06/2021 at 19:12:56
1005 Posted 07/06/2021 at 19:13:06
1006 Posted 07/06/2021 at 19:14:14
Well I'm not!!!
1007 Posted 07/06/2021 at 19:16:57
1008 Posted 07/06/2021 at 19:24:08
Also reading that we are about to offer Nuno a 3 year deal makes it even more likely in 18 months time we will be looking for yet another new manager. I like everyone else have no idea who we will appoint, but I think the appointment might tell us a lot about how much more Moshiri and Usmanov intend to plough into the club, while providing funds for the new stadium. I think we only have to see how little Arsenal and Spurs spent on players while building their new stadiums, to know that with revenues decimated because of Covid we wont be spending much in the next 3/4 years. I would just add if we hire Nuno and it doesnt work and limited money spent on this squad could see us in deeper trouble than we have been over the last 5 years.
1009 Posted 07/06/2021 at 19:24:48
Just read your comment about finishing 3rd in 1977-78 and it being comparable to finishing 7th now and I can't agree really. I was 16 back then and thought my mind might be playing tricks on me, so I checked up on the data. We finished with a goal difference of plus 31 and scored 76 goals which was pretty amazing given Lee's dour image.
1010 Posted 07/06/2021 at 19:29:36
1011 Posted 07/06/2021 at 19:29:51
1012 Posted 07/06/2021 at 19:44:58
Now you can finish 4th and do that. So in that context, 6th or 7th is the new 3rd or 4th if that makes sense?
That's the point I was trying to make, not take anything away from Gordon Lee finishing 3rd.
1013 Posted 07/06/2021 at 19:54:59
1014 Posted 07/06/2021 at 20:00:11
1015 Posted 07/06/2021 at 20:03:33
1016 Posted 07/06/2021 at 20:23:40
1017 Posted 07/06/2021 at 20:38:14
1018 Posted 07/06/2021 at 21:41:34
Thanks for that. I have tried forgetting some of the comical performances this season but those are all fresh in the memory which probably justifies their ranking.
It would have been nice if the article had done more analysis, like looking at the line ups and tactics. Irrelevant now as he's gone but before many of our defeats, on seeing the line up, I often feared the worst and couldn't understand what Ancelotti was doing.
There were too many times Gylfi got played in a deep lying midfield role or there was no mobility in the midfield or down the sides.
While I hope I won't miss our calmness against sides like Arsenal, Leicester and at Anfield, I definitely won't miss the counter productive nonsense served up for a third of the season.
1019 Posted 07/06/2021 at 22:03:30
1020 Posted 08/06/2021 at 07:07:20
In Carlo there seemed an acceptance that Everton are not a one season fix. It would take 2 or 3 seasons before we could challenge the top 4.
We have to plan for the longer term, hoping stability will set us up for a positive future.
Brands has to bring in the right players, regardless of manager.
1021 Posted 08/06/2021 at 07:17:34
Apologies – I misread your intention. As I said, I wasn't championing Lee's tenure whatsoever.
1022 Posted 08/06/2021 at 08:28:50
Although I remember Gordon Lee, the most I remember about that period was my Dad's rants about us not being good enough. Apart from Duncan McKenzie. He liked Duncan McKenzie a lot. I still to this day think his opinion of that era was still blighted by the fact Alan Ball and Howard Kendall didn't play for Everton anymore! To the point he regularly used to track Southampton's results when Ball signed for them!!
Sums up the predicament we've got ourselves into Steavey. The eternal (probably ill-informed) optimist in me thinks we're through the worst of that. But there are still a few windows required to get rid of the average and bring in better.
1023 Posted 08/06/2021 at 08:40:07
1024 Posted 08/06/2021 at 09:19:37
In addition to his appointment, I would welcome his whole staff. Which means a clearout within our club that is long overdue. A complete cull of the 'Jobs for the boys' brigade, of minor managerial and backroom staff, is long overdue. There is no room for sentiment. Ferguson, Unsworth and the rest of our former under achievers need to be removed. Their presence only serves to perpetuate a technically substandard approach which has been patently obvious in both performances and results for far too long.
I admire Duncan Ferguson's enthusiasm. I'm certain his intentions are genuine and honourable. But I believe it's in his best interests to go to a lesser club first and prove his managerial credentials, before being considered for any future post with Everton.
As for Unsworth, he along with his cronies, are nonentities who ought to be discarded with immediately. They serve no purpose to the club. As with many of the playing staff, they are reaping considerable benefits under false pretences and need to be removed.
A new dawn. A fresh approach. Enterprising, exciting, entertaining football, played in the manner to which Evertonians old enough to remember demand. I believe Nuno Espirito Santo to be the man to deliver as much.
Ancelotti's departure could prove a blessing in disguise. His tactics were negative. His results spoke for themselves. His man-management skills seemingly ineffective. He was turfed out of Italy and was given a hefty sum of money to walk his dogs and see out the pandemic on Crosby beach, thank you very much. It will be interesting to see how he fares at Real Madrid, as his lack of success in recent years seems very similar to Mourhino's downward spiral.
1025 Posted 08/06/2021 at 09:27:23
1026 Posted 08/06/2021 at 13:38:54
1027 Posted 08/06/2021 at 13:40:32
1028 Posted 08/06/2021 at 13:46:21
One important thing in life, odds will always change for next Manager, bookies act on rumours, so never take for granted that an odds on is going to be the next Manager, use logic and try and use your own judgement, when having a punt, go with your gut feeling, no matter what the odds are.
Not sure of Eddie Howes odds, but he could be worth a little punt.
1029 Posted 08/06/2021 at 13:58:41
I am seeing a lot of reports now about Graham Potter!
1030 Posted 08/06/2021 at 14:02:43
1031 Posted 08/06/2021 at 14:03:32
1032 Posted 08/06/2021 at 14:13:55
A few weeks ago they had Nuno Espirito Santo as the new Spurs manager, then they had him at Everton but as far as we actually know the only club he's had meaningful talks with in that time are Palace. Potter is the next manager with Premier League experience on their list.
1033 Posted 08/06/2021 at 14:20:29
Yes, think youre right, it would probably be a different story every other day.
We don't really know if we are interested in Nuno or actually had talks to be honest, just seems to be all media talk.
1034 Posted 08/06/2021 at 14:33:23
If Brands takes charge of the appointment then we are looking at a young up and coming coach will take the club forward.
1035 Posted 08/06/2021 at 14:51:39
1036 Posted 08/06/2021 at 15:30:54
1037 Posted 08/06/2021 at 15:39:29
1038 Posted 08/06/2021 at 15:46:26
My head says eventually it will come down to either Eddie Howe, or Duncan, I may be wrong pure guess work.
But I am thinking about logic and who may be in the thoughts of our chairman and fans, whereas the tabloids are using just guess work at various Managers, who are available.
I would ignore if a Managers odds come tumbling down, bookmakers do it to try and get punters to back the favourite, think as an Evertonian, and back your own judgement, and not rumours and bookies short odds.
1039 Posted 08/06/2021 at 15:55:17
1040 Posted 08/06/2021 at 15:58:24
1041 Posted 08/06/2021 at 16:19:20
Marcel Brands comes from Den Bosch, towards the south-east of our country. The more you go eastwards (Eindhoven..), the more they watch German football on Sportschau. So most likely Brands will well aware of these names.
That so many Evertonians keep calling for Moyes and Ferguson saddens me. For me, that is looking backwards. If Ferguson wants to become a manager, he wants to take up the post at Morecambe, as somebody else mentioned. If he has what it takes, then we can consider him. Although take in account that Lampard was doing okay at Derby, but that wasn't good enough at Chelsea.
1042 Posted 08/06/2021 at 16:37:24
1043 Posted 08/06/2021 at 17:47:06
1044 Posted 08/06/2021 at 17:57:32
Anyway, back on topic, its always surprised me that Brands hasn't looked that way more in terms of player recruitment given his roots and the standard of player produced in Germany, Holland and Belgium. As I've said before, I'd throw Denmark into that mix too.
1045 Posted 08/06/2021 at 18:40:44
I've just said on another thread that I'm sure Potter is on a very long contact at Brighton, so it might be cheaper for Moshiri taking a manager who is not currently under contract at any club?
1046 Posted 08/06/2021 at 18:46:52
1047 Posted 08/06/2021 at 18:52:20
My son is telling me there are growing rumours about the Lille coach.
Any followers of French football know any substance in that?
1048 Posted 08/06/2021 at 18:54:32
1049 Posted 08/06/2021 at 19:01:58
I see a lot of pros and few (if any) cons about him.
1050 Posted 08/06/2021 at 19:14:34
1051 Posted 08/06/2021 at 19:19:39
If so, then it's positive move.
Lille beat PSG for the French Championship.
Others have named Christophe Galtier before.
The only thing I saw of them was when they played Ajax in the Champions League. They had good players, but Ajax persevered.
1052 Posted 08/06/2021 at 20:03:15
1053 Posted 08/06/2021 at 21:33:50
1054 Posted 09/06/2021 at 10:46:57
The conclusion to be drawn is that Unsworth Ferguson and the rest of the backroom dross are firmly entrenched, curtesy of Boys Pen Bill and Little Miss Dynamite, another pair of leeches. Nuno quite correctly wanted his own team of backroom appointments. This was seemingly rejected. A massive mistake and a missed opportunity to turn the team around in my opinion. He will do well at Palace given a free reign.
And the cancer within our club continues to fester.
1055 Posted 09/06/2021 at 11:18:16
1056 Posted 09/06/2021 at 11:19:33
The talks between Palace and Nuno have broken down due to Nuno wanting to take his staff with him.
1057 Posted 09/06/2021 at 11:45:45
1. Nuno in. Duncan out.
2. Nuno in, rates Duncan so keeps him.
3. Nuno doesn't take the job.
1058 Posted 09/06/2021 at 11:45:53
1059 Posted 09/06/2021 at 11:47:44
We never really know the real facts with players or managers so we just have to sit tight and hope the right decisions are made.
Nuno had some pull with Portuguese imports and they have done well but lightening very rarely strikes twice.
We will have to see if we get lucky and the same goes for Moyes if he is brought back. Although he had done quite well at Goodison with very little funding it never became apparent he was ever going to build a bright attacking team and whilst his work at West Ham has been satisfactory it was only after the loan spell of Lingard that changed things and his work at Manure, Sociedad and Sunderland was not noteworthy.
1060 Posted 09/06/2021 at 11:54:00
That surprises me given the time spent negotiating. He's bound to be loyal to trusted staff. Portugal has emerged as a major European force in recent years. Nuno would no doubt have his finger on the pulse of every Portuguese player. That, alongside his own abilities only enhances his attraction. I understand it's difficult for clubs to dispense with existing staff overnight, but it seems the only way to secure his services is to do so.
I believe a complete backroom overhaul would only benefit us anyway. So if there is any slight chance of us getting him, for me it would be a win win situation.
1061 Posted 09/06/2021 at 11:57:14
1062 Posted 09/06/2021 at 14:42:49
Btw folks,the finest game I saw this season was... TNS 1 NOMADS 4.
As for a Blues game...erm?,did we even play a half decent game all season??.
1063 Posted 09/06/2021 at 16:36:40
1064 Posted 09/06/2021 at 16:54:34
1065 Posted 09/06/2021 at 16:57:03
1066 Posted 09/06/2021 at 17:21:43
Lage is quite highly rated and IMO is better than Nuno.
Unlike our lot Wolves have a good board.
Im still hoping we get Galtier.
1067 Posted 09/06/2021 at 19:35:41
We need far more time before the new season to slag him off properly!
1068 Posted 09/06/2021 at 20:51:40
1069 Posted 09/06/2021 at 21:11:17
1070 Posted 09/06/2021 at 21:40:09
1071 Posted 09/06/2021 at 22:07:02
1072 Posted 09/06/2021 at 22:43:37
1073 Posted 10/06/2021 at 22:20:13
Thank goodness Moyes is staying at West Ham, and good luck to him.
When will Kenwright get it into his head that he is surplus to requirements? End of.
Let's move on, without repeatedly referring to past managers. That is not the way forward, and Kenwright cannot (or chooses not) see it, due to his blind faith in Moyes and Martinez!
Well past your sell-by date, Mr Kenwright. Take your ill-gotten gains and move on.
1074 Posted 10/06/2021 at 22:39:11
Not necessarily my choice but surely should be more likely then most, if not almost all, that we are linked with?
1075 Posted 16/06/2021 at 23:09:58
They extended his deal to six years after a few months much to his embarrassment as he felt he hadnt earned it or so he said
Add Your Comments
In order to post a comment, you need to be logged in as a registered user of the site.
Or Sign up as a ToffeeWeb Member — it's free, takes just a few minutes and will allow you to post your comments on articles and Talking Points submissions across the site.